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Make progress (Conversations 1968 - 1975)

Expressions researched:
"made progress" |"make a little progress" |"make a systematic progress" |"make accurate progress" |"make actual progress" |"make actually progress" |"make all progress" |"make any progress" |"make any spiritual progress" |"make any substantial progress" |"make certain more progress" |"make certain progress" |"make complete progress" |"make definite progress" |"make further and further progress" |"make further evolutionary progress" |"make further progress" |"make further spiritual progress" |"make gradual progress" |"make him progress" |"make his progress" |"make little further progress" |"make more and more progress" |"make much progress" |"make no progress" |"make our progress" |"make progress" |"make quick progress" |"make rapid progress" |"make regular progress" |"make some material progress" |"make some progress" |"make spiritual progress" |"make steady progress" |"make sufficient progress" |"make tangible progress" |"make very easy progress" |"make very much progress" |"make wonderful progress" |"make your progress" |"makes a little more progress" |"makes further progress" |"makes no progress" |"makes positive progress" |"makes progress" |"makes quick progress" |"makes real progress" |"makes solid progress" |"makes tangible progress" |"making a sure progress" |"making any progress" |"making any spiritual progress" |"making bhakti, progress" |"making economic progress" |"making farther progress" |"making further progress" |"making his progress" |"making material progress" |"making positive progress" |"making progress" |"making so much progress" |"making so nice progress" |"making so-called progress" |"making sure progress" |"making very much progress" |"making very much progress" |"making your progress" |"progress I am making" |"progress one makes" |"progress the yogi makes" |"progress we make" |"progress you are making" |"progress you make"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: "mak* progress"@5

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- February 1, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They are doing nicely. They are making progress. They are understanding the philosophy. They are working for it. Now I am the only man who came from India, and still, I am one. I have no... There are many Indians, but I have no Indian follower here. Of course, in India we have got. That's a different thing. But these, all these American boys, they are cooperating with me. That means they are taking this movement very seriously. We have got two great papers, magazines, already, Back to Godhead. One is published from New York, and the other is published from Montreal. (break) In French language. Montreal it is published in French language, and they are well received. Recently I have received one letter from my disciple, Janardana. He is Janus Dambergs, M.A., he is the editor of that paper. He is a very good scholar in French language. His wife is also good scholar, Muna. She is also very good scholar in French language. So they are publishing, and the magazine is well received by the French-speaking people there. And we have contemplation to publish the same magazine in German language also from Germany.

Interview -- March 9, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: There are different grades of life. So we get information from authoritative books that there are 8,400,000's of different grades of life, and there are 900,000's of aquatic life, two million species of plants and trees, about eleven hundred thousand species of life of birds, three million types of species of beast, and 400,000 species of this human body. Out of that 400,000's, different kinds of human bodies, the civilized body is a great boon. At that time we can make further progress. Either we can transfer to other planets... The standard of living, comforts, are many, many thousands times better than this planet. But in this book, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, we get information that within this material universe, wherever you go, either you remain in this planet or you go to the moon planet or to the sun planet, or there are millions and trillions of planets... The highest planetary system is called Brahmaloka. There the duration of life is very, very great.

Interview -- March 9, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: That is also another process. You see. If you come to our class and go to some other class, some nightclub class, then it is counteracted immediately. You see. So you have to, if you want to ignite fire you must protect it from water. And if you ignite fire and pour water then what is the benefit? Nothing. So to make progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness you have to keep company with devotees. Similarly, you have to avoid the company of nondevotees. So these six principles will develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And then the last question is: "Does Kṛṣṇa consciousness bring in karmic action as part of its belief?" Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness activities apparently seem to be karma. We must understand what is the difference between karma and bhakti. Just like we are using this tape recorder, this microphone. So if you go to your politician you'll find the same paraphernalia. I'm speaking and he's also speaking interview. So apparently we are all the same. But this is bhakti and that is karma. What is the difference between bhakti and karma? Karma means you do something and whatever you do there is result. So you take the result also. Suppose you do some business. So the result is one million dollars profit. So you take it. And the result is one million dollars loss. You take it.

Room Conversation -- July 16, 1968, Montreal:

Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of sitting if you don't control your attention? Then you are simply wasting time. Why do you come? That is understood. When you come to hear, that means you must hear with attention. But this is a concession, that even if you don't hear with attention, you become purified. But if you do it, it is very nice. You make progress. You get the result very quickly. So success of life is to please Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Lord, by one's occupational duty. Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ, svanuṣṭhitena dharmena. Svanuṣṭhitena dharmena saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13). One should try to satisfy the Absolute Truth, Personality of Godhead. And Lord Caitanya also recommends that "You remain in your occupation. That doesn't matter. But you submissively try to hear." So we are giving this chance to the people "Please come and hear." But they are not prepared even for that thing. The age is so strong, the Kali-yuga, that it will dictate.

Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Prabhupāda: Of course, faith is the basic principle of everything. If you have no faith, then you cannot make progress in any line of action. So in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is also... Faith is the basic principle. Just like I have come here. I started my classes in New York. So I was alone chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Somebody came. Naturally, out of inquisitiveness, somebody comes. Somebody came and, "Oh, what this Indian swami is doing? Let me see." So he sat down. Some other came. He sat down. Then some of them took it, "Oh, Swamiji speaks very nice. Let me come again." He comes, he comes, and then he gets some faith: "Oh, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is very nice." Then next point is that he wants intimate relationship with the swami, or me: "Swamiji, I have heard you so many days. I think it is very nice. So I want to be your student." So faith is the basic principle. The next stage is that he wants to become a student. And as soon as he wants to become a student, the next stage is that I accept him a disciple if I think that he is suitable. Then as soon as he becomes a disciple, he follows my regulative principles, injunctions.

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Try to help this movement. Your America, there are so many rich men. If somebody comes and helps this movement, one or two, we can make very steady progress. We have no money. We are struggling very hard. You see? This boy is a professor in the Ohio University. So whatever he's earning, he's spending for this. Similarly, all the boys whatever they earn, they spend. But that is not sufficient, you see? We require to make propaganda. We cannot sufficiently publish this magazine. We want to publish it at least fifty thousand per month, but there is no money. We are publishing at most five thousand. (conchshell blowing)

Journalist: Who's blowing the shofar?

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 11, 1969, New York:

Prabhupāda: Lotus is blessing. And that disc and club is for punishing. Viṣṇu has to see two ways because He's the Lord. So, as it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). Just like the state. State is meant for punishing the criminals and giving protection to the law-abiding citizen. Wherefrom this idea is taken? It is taken from Viṣṇu. Everything. Because He is the supreme maintainer. So everything is required for maintaining. So this gada, the club, and the disc is for punishing the disobedient, the demons, or those who are harassing devotees. To punish them the Viṣṇu-cakra is there. Just like Mahārāja Ambarīṣa, he was harassed by Durvāsā Muni, and Viṣṇu-cakra punished him sufficiently. Mahārāja Durvāsā... Mahārāja Ambarīṣa was a great king, but a great devotee at the same time. Because he was kṣatriya and householder, Durvāsā Muni, he was envious. Durvāsā Muni was brāhmaṇa and a great yogi. So he could not tolerate that a householder king... King is supposed to be dealing in politics, economics. Therefore, according to social position, he is lesser than the brāhmaṇa because they are simply engaged in the matter of transcendental advancement of life. But a devotee is above the brāhmaṇas. That is the position of devotee. Here, the highest qualitative position is to be situated in the modes of goodness or to acquire the qualities of brāhmaṇa, in this material world. Truthfulness, controlling the senses, controlling the mind, simplicity and knowledge, faith in God, there are so many qualifications which makes a person as recognized brāhmaṇa. But a devotee, never mind whether he's brāhmaṇa or a caṇḍāla, he automatically develop all these qualities. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā (SB 5.18.12). Anyone who has unflinching devotional faith in God, he has all the good qualities. I've several times narrated the story of that hunter. He was animal killer and he used to enjoy by killing the animal half. But when he became a devotee, he was not prepared to kill even an ant. Who taught him? Nobody taught him but he was simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. So if you actually making progress in devotional service, you are constantly in touch with the purest.

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: That, they have no estimating power, but at least they will appreciate these external features. One clergyman, when I was going to Hawaii, he was talking with me. He said, "Swamiji, I have seen your disciples have a very nice face, glowing face." And "Yes, certainly. They must be. They are making spiritual progress." So it is not difficult. It is very easy. If you take to this, you have everything sublime and your life becomes sublime. You haven't got to give up anything. The material needs are there, eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That is not disallowed, but adjusted for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We cannot allow eating, mating, like animals, cats and dogs. No. That is not possible. You'll eat, you'll mate, but just like human being, civilized man. Then what is the distinction between animal and man if we behave like animals? Kṛṣṇa, God, is pure. So if you keep yourself in impure condition of life, then how you can make progress towards purity, highest perfection, purity? Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). In the Tenth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā Arjuna is accepting Kṛṣṇa that "You are the purest of all."

Meeting with Devotees -- June 9, 1969, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Then both of you are required. Then how you can say that "I'll leave this place," how he can say he'll leave? You must jointly work because both of you, you have started this New Vrindaban, and you have to work jointly. There may be sometimes disagreement, but you should settle up. Otherwise how you can make progress? He's a sannyāsī. He has got the right to travel. That is his business. He can go and preach. That is actually his business. His business is not to stay any place. Just like I am also; in this old age I am traveling, parivrājaka. So if you think that you can do without him, then he can travel and sometimes he may come here.

Hayagrīva: Well, I think he's necessary here. Definitely we need him.

Meeting with Devotees -- June 9, 1969, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: No, no, I think this will be nice because if he does outside propaganda, that will help development of this center. You make nice, what is called? Prospectus? I gave you the idea, that what is the idea of this center and make plans and where we want to construct temple, the, what is called, design of the temple, and make nicely and put before the people, and they have already known that Kṛṣṇa conscious movement is going on. So there are so many rich people in our country. If somebody comes forward, we can make very nice progress very quickly. So we have to make some propaganda amongst them. Actually it is the nicest possible thing. Simply they have to be convinced. That's a fact. Nobody can challenge our sincerity and our purity in this world. Let anyone come, any so-called society, yoga society, this society, this, that. The best thing we are presenting. There is no doubt about it. Now people has to know it, how to make it known.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Prabhupāda: Everything depends on knowledge. Without knowledge how can we make progress? Student means to acquire knowledge. Serious student means to acquire knowledge.

Yoko Ono: But not always the knowledgeable one are the ones who...

Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot know completely. That is because our knowledge is very imperfect. But still, so far our knowledge is concerned, as far as possible, we should try to understand. Avāṅ mānasa gocaraḥ. This Absolute is so great and unlimited that it is not possible for us to know Him completely. That is not possible. Our senses does not allow. But as far as it is possible, because, after all, we are part and parcel of the Absolute, so all the qualities of the Absolute are there in us, but it is in minute quantity. So that minute quantity is also very great in comparison to material knowledge. Material knowledge is practically no knowledge. It is covered. But when one is liberated, liberated knowledge is certainly very, very great than material knowledge.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Oh. So we were talking of Ajamila, a brāhmaṇa resident of Kānyakubja, presently known as Kanauj. So, kānyakubje dvijaḥ kaścid asit patir..., asit kaścid dāsī-patir ajāmilaḥ, nāmnā naṣṭa-sadācāro dāsyaḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ. That, what is known as, at the present, prostitute, they were know as dāsya, dāsī. (aside:) Don't make sound, "cut, cut." Silent. Dāsī... The kṣatriya kings also, when they married, with dowry many maidservants would follow the queen. That was the kṣatriya system. So Ajamila was the illegal husband of a prostitute, dāsī, dāsī-pati. Actually one should be husband of dharma-pati, religiously married, not a friend or a husband of illegal marriage. That is not allowed. Dāsī-patir ajāmilaḥ nāmnā... Ajāmila nāmnā. His name was Ajāmila. Why the sound is in...? It is not possible to charge? "Cut, cut cut, cut." Naṣṭa-sadācāraḥ. Sadācāra means good behavior. Why good behavior was lost? Dāsyaḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ. Because he was associating with a prostitute, illegal sex. Therefore, anyone who wants to make progress in spiritual life, he must be sadācāra. His behavior must be very regulated. Asadācārī, unclean, nonregulated, cannot make any progress. If somebody says that "Whatever you like, you can do. There is no difference.

Room Conversation -- December 21, 1970, Surat:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. They cannot serve. All these welfare activities of the world, what they are serving? That I explained this morning. They are trying to give help to the poor, but the number of poor is increasing. They are trying to give medicine or relief to the suffering patients. The patients are increasing. Hospitals are increasing. But if our number of temples, Kṛṣṇa temples is increase, that is something sound. But they are increasing hospitals. What do you think? If we increase number of hospitals, does it mean that we are making progress? But they think that they are making progress. Just like in your country there is welfare department? The expenditure increasing.

Revatinandana: Yes, (indistinct)

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: That is another theory. But the process is, our Vedic process, tad-vijñānārtham sa gurum eva abhigacchet: (MU 1.2.12) "In order to understand tat knowledge one must approach a spiritual master." Gacchet. If you don't accept these principles, then how you can make progress? Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsur śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). If you don't accept this principle, there is no possibility. Then you can go on thinking in your own way. There is no question of going to anyone. You make yourself perfect by thinking, as many others are doing, speculating. That is possible but never to the perfectional point.

Guest (1): Perfectly, you see... What is the category of different perfection?

Prabhupāda: That you have to learn. That you have to learn.

Guest (1): No, no, learn from whom?

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: So many ways we do not know. There is some trouble, I am crying, child is crying, and the mother knows that, "He is suffering. Give..." Seeking the help of the mother. Then we are going to a school. The father is training, mother is training. Are you not born foolish? In the Bhāgavata says, abodha-jātaḥ: "born foolish." Everyone is born rascal. So if he does not take help from the authorities how he can make progress? You have become lawyer by sitting at home?

Guest (2): No, no, I take tests for many time. I look at books and I take test for one year, twelve, fourteen hours.

Prabhupāda: That is the process. So how can you deny to understand the supreme science—you can do it independently? No, that is not possible. Therefore it is the verb, the form, gacchet. It is called vidhilinga. You know Sanskrit? Yes. This form of verb is... Perhaps you also know. Gacchet, kuryat, gadyat. These are vidhilinga. Vidhilinga means that is compulsory. Is it not?

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So unless he has got saṁskāra, he is enlightened by culture and knowledge, unless he has become dvija, then there is no authority for studying Vedas. Veda-paṭhet. After one has become dvija, then he is allowed to study Vedas. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ saṁskārad bhaved dvijaḥ, and veda-paṭhed bhaved vipraḥ. Vipra. Then he becomes... Gradually increasing, from śūdra he comes to dvija, then vipra. And after being vipra, after studying all the Vedas, when he realizes Brahman, then he is brāhmaṇa. Brahmā jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that, gradual process, gradual process and to make him a qualified brāhmaṇa. And when he becomes brāhmaṇa, then he knows Brahman. Then he makes spiritual progress. Without... Therefore, without becoming brāhmaṇa nobody can make spiritual progress. That is the door of spiritual knowledge. Then he makes progress, makes progress. So after understanding Brahman knowledge, then he comes to Paramātmā knowledge, then he comes to Bhāgavata knowledge.

Room Conversation -- July 18, 1971, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Because it is genuine movement, it will make progress, provided it is presented in pure form. It was not presented before me in pure form, at least in the Western countries. Therefore people could not take it, nor they could understand it. Now it is being placed in pure form in the right way of paramparā system as the ācāryas introduced, and actually it is happening. It is..., they are taking. Wherever they are going, people are very much anxious to take this philosophy, as if they are waking. Anywhere we go, even we have sent men to Jerusalem (?). (aside:) What town? (indistinct) So this method is very effective, and people are accepting, any part of the world, without any discrimination. Here mostly you see our students are from the Christian group, the Jewish group, there are many students from Muhammadan group, from Parsi group.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Hear and narrate. So, whatever you have heard, you can speak. (break) So, in your country also they do not like this organized Christian religion (indistinct). The difficulty is that either Hindu religion or Christian religion, religion is one. So what is that one religion nobody knows perfectly, and it was not presented because they did not know what is religion. They are simply sticking to a particular kind of faith. Faith can be changed, faith can be given up but real religion, that cannot be given up. It may be perverted. Real religion is to render service to the Supreme Lord. That cannot be changed. We are serving, if not to the Lord, we are serving māyā. But my, that characteristic to serve is continued. So religion is presented simply on formulas and stereo-typed ideas, but actual religion is this surrender. Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. Bhakti means serving. Bhaja sevayā. Sevayā means serving. So, religion means to serve the Supreme Lord, that is religion. Anything which has no such idea, that is not religion. Then again (you) have different types of religion, how far they are making progress with, on that ultimate goal, serving Kṛṣṇa. The more we advance, the more you become perfect, our real religious life becomes manifested, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We say this is real religion. So what others have to say on this point? We say this is real religion. Bhāgavata says dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2), "All cheating type of religion is thrown away."

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with the GBC -- May 25, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Even at the time of his death, Lord Caitanya requested, "Now you can minimize." "No sir, I cannot minimize." And what is the number? 300,000. These are the examples. (indistinct ) Sometimes... But the regulation is that if one day you cannot finish, you have to finish on the next day. But sixteen rounds is not very large number, the lowest. The lowest in India is twenty-five(?). Here sixteen rounds, twenty-five, not even twenty-five. So the president, local president, must see that the members are chanting. So this way the institution will be managed, then it will make progress. That is our spiritual strength—to observe the regulative principles and at least chant sixteen rounds. Then you do other things. This is the biggest institution of spiritual activities so everyone of us should be spiritually strong. Otherwise, superficially if we want to manage, it will not be possible. (indistinct).

Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:

Ian Polsen: I have come to ask Your Grace because I cannot make spiritual progress without the grace of the spiritual master.

Prabhupāda: Thank you. You will make progress. Your attitude is very nice. This is the asset. Hm.

Ian Polsen: My next question is...

Prabhupāda: Our Caitanya Mahāprabhu says,

tṛṇād api sunīcena
taror api sahiṣṇunā
amāninā mānadena
kīrtaniyaḥ sadā hariḥ
(CC Adi 17.31)

The... (aside:) You are feeling uncomfortable? You can give him some seat.

Ian Polsen: No, thank you. I can sit here.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That means they are rascals. They do not have clear eyesight, clear insight. They do not know whether they are degrading or developing. Just like the flies, with great force they will go into the fire. They think they are making progress, they are going to the light. They think; otherwise how they are going? Such kind of advancement. They are going to die, be annihilated, and they still, "Oh, we are going force, by force we are going to the light. Here is darkness, there is light." This is their philosophy. Just like a mad driver drinking drives recklessly to die, that's all. But he is thinking, "Oh, I am going with so much great speed." He does not know that he is going to die after few minutes. And that is their development.

Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:

Ambassador: Any way how to make any progress, or have you any representation, for instance, in Russia?

Prabhupāda: Russia... Last time when I went to Europe I visited Russia. I was invited by one Professor Kotovsky. Perhaps you know him.

Ambassador: No, I don't.

Prabhupāda: Ah. A very nice gentleman. Indology. He is charge of the Indological department. Russia has got very good respect for Indian culture.

Ambassador: Yes. That's right.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversations with Sannyasis -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Whatever is done is done. Now, you try to correct others by behaving yourself. Otherwise, there is no need of keeping so many men. We have attempted in Vṛndāvana. A few men may remain here. That's all. Otherwise, it will be not very nice to attract when people are attracted by seeing your behavior. They are seeing that, "Oh, Europeans and Americans, they have got such nice Vaiṣṇavas." They are attracted on that point. But if we are not to the standard point, they will immediately accuse, "Oh, they are..." So that should be corrected. The same principle, āpani ācari prabhu jīvere, we should behave ourselves nicely, then teach others. Then it will be (indistinct). Another, this is general principle, now we have discussed, now we try to follow. Another thing that Keśi-ghāṭa affair. Shall we make further progress? I acquired that property (indistinct). What is your opinion? From the circumstances as that is now, because any temple, it must be nicely, very nicely managed, otherwise you cannot attract. Our Los Angeles temple we want to attract people. So it is so nicely managed, very nicely managed. You have seen. So unless, that means there must be sufficient bank balance. Such a big temple.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is their intelligence.

Brahmānanda: And they think that's progress.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Progress in one sense. Because they're rascals, making little progress.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Advancing in the wrong direction.

Prabhupāda: But the real progress is that when they will understand that: "We are rascals." That will be real progress, when they come to understand that: "We are all fools and rascals." That will be real progress. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu presented Himself that: "My Guru Mahārāja found me a rascal number one. Yes." That is real progress.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That we want to do.

Paramahaṁsa: They don't want to admit their failure.

Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. If you are a fool and if you want to pose yourself as intelligent, that is another foolishness. You cannot make progress. Stubborn dogs. If you are seeking after knowledge, you must take the right knowledge. That is intelligence. And if you want to remain in ignorance and advertise yourself that "I am man of knowledge," how much cheater you are! You are cheating yourself and cheating others. That is going on. We want to stop this.

Paramahaṁsa: Just like many of our devotees, we experienced when we tried to preach to our parents, because they are much older, to admit that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the right path in life, means to also admit that they have wasted their entire life.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: This Māyāvāda philosophy has created this situation, that "God is impersonal, and, everyone can become God, or everyone is God." This Māyāvāda philosophy has created this havoc. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended that māyāvādī haya kṛṣṇe aparādhi. "All the Māyāvādīs, they are offenders to Kṛṣṇa." Therefore they cannot make any progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That difficulty is there—offenders. And later on, there are so many institutions. They say that "You can create your God. You can become God." That is going on. "Whatever you think as God, that is God." So how one can make progress under these circumstances? One gentleman was arguing with me... He was supporting Rama-Krishna Mission. He said, "Even stool I consider God. It is God." (laughter) He came to this point. "If I worship stool as God, then it is also God."

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So this is going on. What can be done? And here, in the western countries, they are innocent. I have told them that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord, Supreme God." They have accepted it. Just like child. So they are making progress. And people are astonished, "How these westerners, they have become so nice devotee?" But they have accepted it without any argument.

Revatīnandana: I used to argue all the time. (laughter) You used to win every time.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise, what is the miracle. I simply present that "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa. And just chant His name, holy name." And they're doing that. But Indians will not do that. They'll say, "Oh, this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, we have seen." And one, one student in Berkeley University, Indian: "Swamiji, what this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement will do? We want now technology." That's all. They take it as very trifle thing. Not seriously.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: They'll not take to it. So they purposefully remain ignorant, or by their misfortune, they remain ignorant. But those who are innocent, they take it, and they get the result. That's all. Fire is fire. Either you take it by understanding or not understanding, it is fire. It will act. And that is their advantage, that these European and American boys and girls, they have taken, accepted what I have said, and they follow. They're making progress. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriyā tato 'nartha... (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). These are the different stages. The śraddhā stage means faith. That faith is explained in Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Faith, the Indian vernacular is viśvāsa. So Caitanya-caritāmṛta author says, "Faith means viśvāsa sudṛdha-niścaya." Faith, this is faith. When one believes firmly, sudṛdha-niś..., and with confidence. What is that? Kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya: "If one becomes devotee of Kṛṣṇa, then all perfection comes." If one believes in this, that is the faith. Ādau śraddhā, with this faith one has to begin. Then the faith has to be increased by sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83), by association with a devotee. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriyā (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15).

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Then he becomes fixed-up. Tato niṣṭhā rucis tataḥ. Then attraction. Tato niṣṭhā rucis tataḥ athāsaktiḥ. Then he cannot leave. Āsaktiḥ. Tato bhāvaḥ. Then ecstasy. Sādhakānām ayaṁ premṇaḥ prādurbhāve bhavet... These are the different stages of sādhaka, of a devotee, how to make progress. So in the beginning they're faithless. Faith is that kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva... Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). When he captures this slogan, that "Simply by surrendering to Kṛṣṇa, I shall be all-successful," this is the beginning of faith. Bhagavad-gītā creates this faith. But one who does not take even this faith, how he'll make progress. Progress means the progress of the same faith, up to the love of Godhead. That is perfection of faith. So these are the stages. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriyā tato 'nartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt tato niṣṭhā rucis tataḥ, athāsaktis tato bhāvaḥ (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). These are the stages. So this institution is meant for training people from different stages, and beginning with this faith, that kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta... "Simply by becoming devotee of Kṛṣṇa, my life will be perfect." This faith is the basic principle. So unless one comes to this basic principle of faith, there is no question of progress. So little faith, even. Not full faith. It develops by sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83), by association with the devotees. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgaḥ (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15).

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: This faith is the basic principle. So unless one comes to this basic principle of faith, there is no question of progress. So little faith, even. Not full faith. It develops by sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83), by association with the devotees. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgaḥ (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). Everything is there. If we adopt, then everyone can make his life successful. There is no doubt about it. Just like if you enter into a school, if you follow the regulative principles of the school and study, you, one day, you become M.A. Where is the difficulty? Where is the difficulty? But if from the beginning, if you have no faith, then what progress you'll make? If you, from the very beginning, if you think, "What will be, this school will do me? They're learning ABCD. What...?" (laughter) There is no faith. You may call it blind faith. But that is required.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: And that, that faith becomes stronger by association; by association of the devotees, the faith becomes stronger. And the more your faith becomes stronger, you make progress. This is the way. Progress means the same faith becoming stronger, stronger, strongest. The same faith. The principle is the same, Kṛṣṇa. Then you know more about Kṛṣṇa. Then you become more faithful.

Revatīnandana: Is this faithfulness, is it a product of the mode of goodness?

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. Goodness helps. But not... Unless you take it seriously... Then it depends upon the person. Even if he's not in goodness... That, just like all these European and Americans. They were not in goodness. They were on the platform of ignorance. But still, they, because they took it, therefore they are coming, progressively.

Room Conversation With Three College Students -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No, believe... You have to believe. You have to believe. Otherwise you cannot make progress. You have to believe.

Student (1): But say you're in a position of not particularly believing in anybody. I mean there's loads of organizations going around, "Believe in us..."

Prabhupāda: No, if you don't believe, that is a different thing

Revatīnandana: No, what he's saying is this. Now he's saying also, this Guru Maharajaji, he says, "You believe in me, and I'll show you everything." Now he's saying that... What he's accusing is...

Prabhupāda: But who cares for the Guru Mahārāja?

Revatīnandana: He cares.

Prabhupāda: Here is Nārada, Devala, Vyāsa, authority.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: You are attempting. I am very glad. So you can inquire from me anything. The first thing I shall request you, the first principle of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or the first ABCD of spiritual education, is to understand the constitutional position of the living entity. He is, he is spirit soul. He's not this body. The spirit soul is living within this body, but the, the body's not the spirit soul. This thing must be understood very clearly. You know, in the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Dehinaḥ, the proprietor of the body, is within this body. Dehinaḥ asmin dehe yathā. And the body is changing, from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, like that. So when this body will be useless, we will take another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. This first education of spiritual life should be understood first. Then one can make progress. Then one can understand what is the constitution of God, what is our relationship with Him. But if, so long we shall remain under the bodily concept of life, this subject matter will remain difficult.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No, you have to become little free from the biased ideas of Christian philosophy.

David Lawrence: This is what I thought, yes. This is what I thought.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise you cannot make progress.

David Lawrence: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise it is impossible.

David Lawrence: Yes. It's humility...

Prabhupāda: You have to come to the platform of general, common sense.

David Lawrence: Yes.

Prabhupāda: If you become biased, then it will be impossible.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: If you become biased, then it will be impossible.

David Lawrence: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then you cannot make progress. You have to come to the platform... Now, the common sense is that can you distinguish between matter and spirit? Can you distinguish?

David Lawrence: In what, in what respect?

Prabhupāda: That I was speaking, that the distinction between matter and spirit: the spirit is the vital force...

David Lawrence: Yes.

Room Conversation with Malcolm -- July 18, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No Kṛṣṇa consciousness is transcendental position. Once one gets a little touch with Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he'll make progress. Just like the wick in a firework. Firework, a big, what is called? (sic:) Pottatter?

Haṁsadūta: Firecracker.

Prabhupāda: Crack. The long wick, you just set fire: (makes sound:) tille, tille, tille, tille, tille, and when it comes: tung! (laughter) It is like that. You just set up the fire and then one day he'll become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Śyāmasundara: So the knowledge is absolute, it works with anyone.

Room Conversation with Malcolm -- July 18, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Even if he does not complete, whatever he has done, that is complete. Because it is spiritual, it is not material. In material world suppose if you want to do something, you have to make the background. And while doing the background if you could not make further progress, everything is finished. But spiritual work is not like that. From the very beginning, whatever you are doing, that is asset. Nothing is lost. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Even a little done in spiritual consciousness, that can save you from the greatest danger. (pause) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So you are going?

Indian guest: It'll take me about two hours to reach there.

Prabhupāda: I see, I see.

Śyāmasundara: Do you have any questions?

Room Conversation with Rosicrucians -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So unless you have got your goal perfectly known, how you can make progress? (break)

Guru-gaurāṅga: ...their organization is the guru, and their whole organization knows the ultimate goal which they can attain.

Prabhupāda: And he is part of that organization. He does not know.

Guru-gaurāṅga: He says that evolution of man which is the goal of this order is something that is mystical. It is not scientific, that it is so easily...

Prabhupāda: That means it is pale. It is not distinct.

Yogeśvara: He says he is surprised that we raise such objections. He thought that we were also searching for something mystical. He says he's heard our chanting.

Prabhupāda: Who, who? Who?

Room Conversation with Rosicrucians -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: At least, I cannot accept this. (break) ...if there is definite program. (break) The thing is that if I want to enter your association, you must give me some prescription which if I follow, I'll make progress. So that is another thing. But you have no prescription. (break)

Yogeśvara: :...submit to his grandmaster your request for a specific prescription to be given to you. He'll send in your application.

Prabhupāda: He hasn't got. (break)

Yogeśvara: ...make one special just for you.

Prabhupāda: But not for general people. (break)

Discussion about Guru Maharaji -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So God could not... Kṛṣṇa says: ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo... (BG 18.66). That God can, without dying Himself, He can immediately and, I mean to say, vanquish all sinful action. Why He should be killed for that purpose? Just like the Pūtanā gave Kṛṣṇa poison. But Pūtanā was killed. And Kṛṣṇa was never ki... Kṛṣṇa cannot be killed by poison. Even Kṛṣṇa's devotees are not killed by poison. Prahlāda Mahārāja. If we discuss in detail, we create animosities. Therefore we do not discuss because Christian religion is followed by large number. We do not wish to make... We say yes. He says: "Son of God." We accept it. That's all. To accept a person God, that requires great evidences from śāstra. Especially. And when he's present, He will prove the statement of the śāstra. Then we accept Caitanya Mahāprabhu, God. There are evidences... (break) You see. We don't allow anybody to pass on as God because we are presenting real God. We must make process. The real process is to kill him. But that much power we haven't got. We cannot do that. Otherwise, we would have done so. Nobody should be allowed to claim as God. And severe punishment for him. Kṛṣṇa has shown this example. (break) We explain two, three lines from Bhāgavatam. How much people appreciated. So we have to preach like that, the substance. Not the sentiment. But if we cannot, the saṅkīrtana is sufficient. (break) ...anumāna-pramāṇa. Anumāna, hypothesy, and pramāṇa, śāstra-pramāṇa. Śruti-pramāṇa. evidences from the Vedas. Evidences from authorized persons. And anumāna also. That is not good evidence. But even if you take anumāna, that if I make... This table is created by somebody. It is all right. But to find out that somebody is still further progress. Similarly, we have to accept that this gigantic universe... As I say that what is the purpose? If there is purpose, whose purpose? Who is acting? In this way, we have to make progress.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Children, small children, they're just like animals. The cats and dogs, just they are playing, they're also playing like that. But he, he does not belong to that category because when he'll get..., he'll get another body in which he'll be intelligent. Another body, he'll be highly educated. Another body, he'll be doctorate. The cats and dogs, they'll have to wait to get that body. So with the body, we are changing our consciousness. So different body, different consciousness. Similarly, why not after death a different body, different consciousness? If you make progress. Yes. This is progressive. So that is confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā: tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13).

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: "In association with pure devotees." So if you are karmīs, then where is the..., What is the value of this association? Sat-saṅga. Sat-saṅga means assembly, discussion. Bodhayantaḥ parasparam, tuṣyanti ca ramanti ca. If you are not interested in association, discussion, then you are finished. So... karmīs, they are fools and rascals. When you have got this center, it is not that you should be engaged from morning till you go to bed for sense gratification. That is not life. That is karmī's life. You have no time for sat-saṅga, for association. You cannot make any progress by this sort of karmī's life. We have to work for organization, but not that whole day and night engaged and no sat-saṅga. That is a misguided policy, and it will spoil the whole structure. In Los Angeles, they regularly assemble during ārati and class. If this regulative principle is lost, then you are karmīs. They must come back by six o'clock, suspending all other duties, and assemble by seven o'clock. Joint mess program is not good. "You bring some money, you bring some money and spend us jointly for eating, sleeping." That is called joint mess. You know the joint mess? This word? What is that, meaning?

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Be Kṛṣṇa conscious and everything will be solved. How we are speaking? Because we have taken shelter of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti, as soon as you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, all this māyā, misconception, will go. You'll become right person, in knowledge. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to become perfect man. Because there is guidance, the perfect guidance, so he becomes perfect. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma... (CC Adi 17.21). (break) This is the statement in Bhāgavata. Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram: (SB 7.5.30) "Because they cannot control their senses, therefore they are making progress towards the darkest region of hell." Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ punaḥ punaś carvita: "And repeatedly chewing the chewed." They make one plan. It is frustrated. Again make another plan. That is frustrated. Again make another plan. But they will never agree to accept that these plans are all useless. That is rascaldom. That is rascaldom. Repeatedly chewing the chewed, chewing the chewed. The same woman, same vagina, and that is their pleasure. Bas. At home, and in street or nightclub and theater—the same vagina. That's all.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Gap of understanding because the basic principle is wrong, because everyone is fool. And they are trying to understand things with their foolish background. There is the wrong. They are trying to be advanced in knowledge on the foolish background. They do not accept that, that they are foolish rascals. And they are trying to advance in knowledge, active-foolish, fourth class men. Their background is wrong. No scientist, no politician, no philosophers, at the present moment, believe in this, that there is soul, and the soul is transmigrating from one body... Nobody believes it. So their whole background is foolish. So their so-called advancement must be all foolish. They're all fools, rascals, animals. An animal does not know that there is soul and the soul is transmigrating from one body to another. This is animal conception. You cannot teach these pigeons that "You are spirit soul. Your body's different from you." They will, they have no power to understand. So if a human being cannot understand, what is the difference between these pigeons and cats and dogs and him? Then basic principle is wrong. Just like in mathematical calculation, if at one point you have mistaken, then will that be correct ever? It will go on, mistaking, mistaking, mistaking, mistaking. If the, if one point, while adding, you have made two plus two equal to five, then after that, everything wrong, everything wrong. Everything wrong. So that is their position. Their basic principle is like animal. The animal cannot understand that there is soul and there is transmigration of the soul. And if the human society makes progress of their so-called knowledge on this wrong basis understanding, then what will be the result? Everything wrong, everything wrong, everything wrong.

Room Conversation with Latin Professor -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: I see. So... Oh, you have no seat? They are giving him? All right. So from Bhagavad-gītā we understand that Bha... Just like in this planet we are so many persons, or the President Nixon is the President. Similarly, in every planet there are living entities, and the President of the sun planet is called Vivasvān. So he was instructed by Kṛṣṇa long, long ago. In the higher planetary system, the time is different. That was proved when the Russian aeronautics were on the sky. In one hour twenty-five minutes, he went round the earth, twice or thrice, like that. So time is different. So the point is... Just like the sunshine is impersonal, the sun is localized, and the president of the sun globe is a person, similarly, the Absolute Truth is realized in three phases. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). The first realization is impersonal, then localized, and then personal. So ultimately, God is person. And that is Kṛṣṇa. So we are hearing directly from the Supreme Personality of Godhead about Godhead, and that is perfect knowledge. If you speak yourself about yourself, that is my perfect knowledge of yourself. And if I simply speculate that "Professor may be like this, like that," that is not perfect. I am speculating, but if you come to me, "Swamiji, I am like this," then my knowledge is perfect. Otherwise, I can go on speculating for millions of years. Still, my knowledge is imperfect. So we cannot manufacture God; neither we can speculate. That is not possible. But you can get some idea, but there is no possibility of getting perfect knowledge of God. God is unlimited. I am limited. So my speculative knowledge is limited. So how I can understand the unlimited by my limited knowledge? That is not possible. We can make little progress, and that is impersonal understanding. The perfect understanding is that He is person, all-powerful, all-mighty, all beautiful, all-wise, all..., everything perfect, six opulences: riches, strength, influence, beauty, knowledge and renouncement. These are the six opulences. And God is complete. This is conception of God.

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the government's duty, that the citizens may not degrade. That is government's duty. Now, just like a father thinks, "Now, these children have come under my protection. I must see they get proper education and make advancement of life." It is the father's duty. And if the father thinks, "Let him go to hell." That's all. Nowadays fathers are doing like that. That is not father's duty. Similarly, government's duty is that the citizen must make progress. But they do not know what is means by progress, what is the aim of life. They do not know. They are demonic. How they will guide? They think, like cats and dogs, "If you get fatty and you can eat more, then your life is successful." Their thinking is very poor.

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No. These discrepancies will go on because this whole material world is being conducted by three qualities. You will have three qualitative persons.

Karandhara: Well, they think they are making progress...

Prabhupāda: That they are making progress everyone knows, what kind of progress they are making.

Prajāpati: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there was a great philosopher or preacher among the Jewish people whose position is that "If there is God and He let so many Jews be killed by Hitler, ten million Jews, and God could have stopped it and He didn't, then I don't care for that God." They say like that.

Prabhupāda: So their God, Jesus Christ God, he could not even protect himself also. The reply should be, Christian, if Jesus Christ is God, then why he could not protect himself?

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Lotus feet because we worship Kṛṣṇa by worshiping the lotus feet first. We offer flower to the lotus feet. So one must go from First Canto to Second Canto, Third Canto, gradually make progress, not all of a sudden want to see how Kṛṣṇa is smiling. You see? That you cannot understand. So the sahajiyās, they go, immediately jump to the Kṛṣṇa's rāsa-līlā, without worshiping gradually. Therefore they misunderstand. (break) Just to understand Kṛṣṇa.

Prajāpati: But Kṛṣṇa's disappearance, about having a māyā body that He left behind. A māyā body. Is that anything to do with Māyāvādī?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Māyāvādī means those who are in māyā, those who are thinking Kṛṣṇa as one of the human beings, for them, to delude them, He left the body. But actually He departed in His own body. There is no question of... Here is another... But just like this is also, this material world... This is also Kṛṣṇa's body. But this is interesting to the Māyāvādīs, the so-called scientists, so-called philosophers. But it is not interesting to the devotees. They are thinking, "This is all." Is not that? The scientists, the philosophers, they are thinking, "This is all. There is nothing beyond this." This is illusion. This is only reflection of the reality.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 7, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā there are so many. They'll purchase another rascal's Bhagavad-gītā. Simply you make propaganda that what is real leadership. Then they will inquire and we shall reply. (break) ...so many things. So we may not create any disruption amongst our solidarity. Then things will not make progress. In a big machine, even one screw is slack, the machine stops. You know that? So we should not commit such mistake. "Don't care. It is a small screw." No. Even that small screw can stop the whole machine. (break) ...that we are on the platform of deathlessness. Then we can be careful about falling down. And this is a fact.

Bali Mardana: And we will not want to fall down.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now he is begging daily, although he is earning at least fifty-thousand rupees per month. But he has no... He is just like beggar. He doesn't care for his father. There are many like this. Bhaktiḥ pareṣānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt (SB 11.2.42). These are the test. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) (break) ...devotee. Then all the good qualities will be manifested in his person. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ mano-rathena asato dhavato bahiḥ. And if one is not a perfect devotee of Kṛṣṇa, of Hari, then he cannot possess any mahad-guṇa. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Why? Mano-rathena: "He is simply hovering in the mental plane." He is not fixed up. Therefore asato dhavato bahiḥ. Then he will have to do something which is asat. Asato maṁ sad gama. That is the Vedic... "Don't remain in the asat; just make progress to the sat." That is wanted. That cannot be done unless one is fully situated in unalloyed devotional service of the Lord. That is not possible. One must go to the asat, because he is hovering on the mental plane. Mental plane is not secure. Anyone who is in mental plane, he may fall down at any moment. So we have to transcend the mental plane. Intellectual plane. Jñana-karmady-anavṛtam.

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 2, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No. There is no such thing. That is separation. Just like gopīs, they are full of anxiety: "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has gone to the pasturing ground." Their anxiety is there. Just like Rukmiṇī, she was thinking, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa may not give me up. He is talking in this way." She fainted. So anxiety is there. So the anxiety is that one may not be separated from Kṛṣṇa. That is the anxiety. And actually there is no separation, but the feeling of separation out of ecstatic love. Just like one who has got love for the other person, beloved, he always thinks like that, "My beloved may not be separated from me." This is ecstasy of love. Just like a miser man who has got much wealth, he always thinks, "My money may not be lost. My money may not be lost." Out of his too much attachment for the money, he thinks like that. Is it not? "How shall I protect this money? How shall I protect this?" To earn money is also troublesome. To keep money also troublesome. And when it is lost, that is also troublesome. This is the position. But there is no such thing, loss, but the anxiety is there. We shall return from here? (break) ...vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. So both the sādhu and the duṣkṛtina, by Kṛṣṇa's two activities, act differently to the devotees and to the demons. They realize. That is their achievement. By punishment, this Kāliya realized, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord." And devotees, by out of love, they realize. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is Absolute. In either process He is realized. Mama vartmānuvartante manuṣyāḥ pārtha sarvaśaḥ. If one is sincere, then they gradually make progress. Yes. (break) ...vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: There will be no city. We don't want cities.

Bhagavān: What about our city temples?

Prabhupāda: No, no. For the time it may go on. But as we make progress, there will be no necessity. City means... For the present we have got. Because the city is there, we are there. But suppose the city is closed. We shall be there? If the city is closed, you still will be there?

Yogeśvara: But we can predict that the cities will go on for quite some time.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it will go on, but when they will see that your ideal community is better than city life, people will take to it. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 9.59). When one gets a better standard of life, naturally he will give up the lower standard of life.

Room Conversation with Monsieur Roost, Hatha-yogi -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are all western. They have taken to it. They have given up all such habits. In the beginning they were coming to me with their girlfriends, boyfriends. I said, "No, you cannot stay like that." So they agreed. I have got them married personally. They have got children. If you want to live as gṛhastha, live. If you want to live as vānaprastha or as sannyāsa... So generally, young men, young girls, I get them married. There is no harm. Married life, sex life, that is allowed in the śāstra. But not illicit sex. That is not allowed. If one remains sinful, he cannot make any progress of spiritual life. That is not possible. This is bogus, that you remain sinful and at the same time make spiritual progress. That is not possible. Otherwise, why there is distinction of sinful and pious life? You must be pious life. And the basic principle of pious life is this, avoid these four sinful life: illicit sex, intoxication, gambling and meat-eating. They are sinful life. So one cannot make any progress in spiritual life who is habituated to act sinfully. That is not possible.

Room Conversation with Monsieur Roost, Hatha-yogi -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: This is plain understanding. Just like physician says that "If you eat these things, then you will not be cured." A physician should straightly speak to the patient, "You should not do this. Then you will be cured." If he does not agree, then he will not be cured. It is like that. If you remain sinful, then you cannot make any spiritual progress of life. That is going on. All the swamis, yogis, and... Don't mind. I have seen. They keep them in the sinful life and talk very, very, big, big words. That will not help. Sinful life must be stopped. Then yoga practice will be successful. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya yogo bhavati siddhiḥ. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. If you are yogi, if you want siddhi, then you must eat and sleep and accept things—yukta. Yukta means "as it is required, not more than that, not less than that." That is yukta. We don't say that you stop. No, we don't say. We give them eatables. We don't say there is no sex life. Sex life is there. But married, simply for begetting children. Otherwise, no sex life. Not for sense gratification. If these things go on... In New York there is a yogi. I do not wish to name his... But in the paper it was published that he was having sex with his disciple. Is it not?

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Yes, because our proposal is that unless you become... Find out that verse, yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām, te dvandva-moha-nirmuktāḥ. This is the beginning of theism. Theism means you must be free from all sinful activities. That is theism. If you remain sinful you cannot make any progress in theism. That is the point. (break)

Yogeśvara: Doesn't that make us rather exclusive, that we have some facility for spending all of our time meditating and purifying our lives? Doesn't that make us a rather exclusive group of people? If only those who are completely pure can engage in service, that means only people like us who have time to sit and meditate...

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No, no, you don't believe anything, that is another thing. That is another thing. Without belief, you cannot make progress.

Priest: Ah, you have to go beyond.

Prabhupāda: As soon as you... Just like you learn who is your father. You take the version of your mother and you believe that "He is my father." Otherwise there is no other way. How can you know your father? The only means is his mother recommends, "My dear boy, he is your father." And that is perfect, that's all. Otherwise you cannot know who is your father.

Priest: Yeah, but you know...

Prabhupāda: If you say, "Mother, I don't believe it," you don't believe it, but you cannot know.

Morning Walk -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: When he's attracted by Kṛṣṇa, he'll forget. Just like we are more or less not attracted by these material features because we have little attraction for Kṛṣṇa. That's all. So increase your attraction for Kṛṣṇa; you'll forget all nonsense. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt (SB 11.2.42). The bhakti means more realization of God and forgetting this, all this nonsense. That is bhakti. That is the test of bhakti: how much you have become disinterested with this material advancement. That is bhakti, advancement of bhakti. And the... Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore says, niṣkiñcanasya. At last, when you'll feel that "Now I am dispossessed of all this material nonsense," then you make progress. And so long you'll feel "I have got this, I have got that, I am in possession of this, I...," that means your material disease is continuing. When you'll feel that "I do not have anything material," that is the beginning of Bhāgavata-dharma.

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Unless we understand that what is his aim of discussion, then how we can make progress? (Yogeśvara mentions something in French about Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna) No, why you are bringing Kṛṣṇa, Arjuna? First of all, let us know what is the aim of our discussion, the subject matter of discussion. (French for some time)

Jyotirmayī: His main point when he quotes Bhagavad-gītā is to show that it is a philosophy of action, it is dynamic, that Kṛṣṇa told Arjuna to fight. So there was a war. It is dynamics, not just sentiment, philosophy. It is active.

Yogeśvara: Yeah. Neti, neti. Getting rid of the bad elements.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is practical, practical action. Yes. (French)

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes. For whom? Who is actually searching after success? Not for the fool. Anyone who is trying for attaining success, for him, failure is also success because he's making progress. Harer nāma harer nāma... (CC Adi 17.21). God says, "Many ways." That's all right. But why does He says that "If you want to know Me perfectly, and without any doubt, then this is the process, bhakti"? Other processes are there but by those processes you cannot understand. Just like practically, call anyone, so-called yogis, so-called jñānīs, they'll not understand Kṛṣṇa. They'll not understand Kṛṣṇa. So all other paths that are recommended, by those paths you cannot understand God perfectly and without any doubt. Therefore God says clearly, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ: (BG 18.55) "Actually, what I am, that can be understood by bhakti-yoga." Other systems, you'll... I explained that last night. That is partial understanding. That is not full understanding.

Room Conversation with Mr. Tran-van-Kha, and President & Members of the Society of Buddhists in France -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: He was Hindu in the beginning. Come on. He was Prince, then He become renounced and He was known as Lord Buddha. So Lord Buddha also started His system for stopping animal killing. Lord Jesus also said, "Thou shall not kill." Unfortunately the animal killing is not stopped. We are therefore teaching our followers: no meat-eating, so that if people stop meat-eating, automatically animal killing will be stopped. According to Vedic system, there are four pillars of sinful life, just like this table is on the four pillars. So one pillar is illicit sex, another meat-eating, another intoxication, and another gambling. So at least the brāhmaṇas, the priestly heads of religion, the king and the public leader, they should stop these four sinful activities. The leaders of the society they must be sinless. Then the human society will make nice progress. In the Bhagavad gītā it is stated: yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Therefore, if you have no answer. That's all right. That "We don't know" means our knowledge is insufficient. But knowledge means must be progressive. We should not remain in insufficient knowledge. We must make further progress to get sufficient knowledge. Inquiry.

Guest (1): But you referred to some other, more direct ways of acquiring knowledge than just the standard...

Prabhupāda: No, because we have got insufficient knowledge, we cannot approach directly. It is not possible. We have to take knowledge—who has got sufficient knowledge, from him. Because you have got insufficient knowledge, so you cannot make progress. Just like beyond this wall, you cannot say what is there. That is insufficient knowledge. But that does not mean there is nothing. Because you cannot say what is beyond this wall, that does not mean that there is nothing beyond this wall. Your knowledge is insufficient. Is it not?

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: No, the university?

Doug: In the university? I haven't been with them in a year and a half, but they recently bought a college, and they have part of a college in Santa Barbara, the University of California there. So they're pretty well established educationally. But it's losing its potency actually. I think it's actually reached its peak and left, because when I was with Maharishi also I noticed that it seemed that a lot of his potency seemed to diminish, his charisma, over the years. Seemed to me he'd get more and more depressed if people weren't actually reaching the states that he was talking of. It didn't seem like he was satisfied with the advancement people were making. And certainly he wasn't answering the questions, because all that time I was asking him "What is the highest truth." And when he talked to God I would say, "Who is God?" And we'd ask him, "Who is Kṛṣṇa?" and "What about this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement?" And it was word jugglery. He'd kind of evade our questions and satisfy our elan, but... those questions kept coming up. Somehow he kept us from going into too much detail about it. But eventually... I didn't see him for a few days. This was when I was in the mountains with him, some other people. And we were making up these curriculums for this college program. And he was doing some transcriptions on the Brahma-sūtras, and he came out, and he was in a very solemn mood, and he said... We asked him what he had realized, what truths he had realized from the Brahma-sutras. And he said, "Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the highest state of consciousness." So I left shortly after that. I feel that I could have been chanting all those years, making some progress.

Prabhupāda: What is his age?

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Lacking, there are so many things. But one who is actually chanting Rāma, the result will be that he will get attachment. That is the process. Ādau śraddhā tato sādhu-saṅgaḥ atha bhajana-kriyā, tato anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt tato niṣṭha tato ruciḥ tathā āsaktiḥ tato bhāvaḥ. This will increase. Just like if you have gone to school—you have learned, began to learning—then your learning will increase. And one day you will come to the stage of passing M.A. examination. And if it fails, that mean you did not go to school very seriously. Otherwise the general process is you make progress and come to the standard of passing M.A. examination. Then if you have gone to school and you have not followed the rules and regulations, you have not attended the teacher, the lessons, then you failure. That I am saying, that that is not very seriously taken that "I am going to school. I must learn it." If one is serious, then...

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: God is always helping, but if you do not accept it... God says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) "You give up all other engagement and take My shelter," but you are not doing that. That is your fault. So it cannot be failure unless you are negligent. You have no utsāhaḥ. This is the process. Utsāhaḥ dhairyaḥ niścayaḥ tat-tat-karma-pravartanaḥ, sato vṛtteḥ. How these boys are advancing? They have got enthusiasm: "Yes, we must make progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness." They have given up everything. They are young men. They have got... Every young man has to satisfy senses in so many ways. But no. They are so enthusiastic, but... For understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness they have given up everything. They are Europeans, Americans. They have got so many allurement. But I have told them that "You must give up illicit sex," they have given up; "You must give up meat-eating," they have given up; "You must give up intoxication up to drinking tea and cigarette," and they have given up, these young men.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: For understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness they have given up everything. They are Europeans, Americans. They have got so many allurement. But I have told them that "You must give up illicit sex," they have given up; "You must give up meat-eating," they have given up; "You must give up intoxication up to drinking tea and cigarette," and they have given up, these young men. So they are utsāhaḥ. There is enthusiasm: "Yes, we must do it." That is wanted, not theoretically on the armchair of devotional service. That will not be successful. Armchair theory will not help you. You must be practical and there must be enthusiasm. Then it will be successful. You are sitting in the same position and you are thinking that you are making progress. That will fail. You have to come out with enthusiasm. Then it will be successful. That is required. Ciraṁ vicinvan.

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone is enquiring, but according to his intelligence, perfection, he is making progress. Everyone. Everyone, because he is meant for that purpose. He has forgotten Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa is the reservoir of all pleasure. He is trying to find out pleasure other than Kṛṣṇa, therefore he is being baffled. Unless he comes to Kṛṣṇa there is no pleasure. That he does not know.

Paramahaṁsa: We have a saying in the West that curiosity killed the cat.

Prabhupāda: Another example as I gave, crying children, child, crying, crying, crying, crying. As soon as he is on the lap of his mother, immediately stops. Why? He can understand, "Now I have got the real thing." Other woman taking, he still continues crying. You have seen it? This is practical. But when the child comes to the lap of his own mother, he immediately stops. Mother also takes care, "My dear child, come." He sucks the breast and is satisfied.

Morning Walk -- May 11, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes. I think it is... Maybe it is described in Seventeenth Chapter. According to our free will, we are associating with certain type of the modes of material nature, and then we become subjected to that material modes. The same example: you infect some disease, contamination, and you gain the result of it. So our endeavor should be how to raise ourself to the first, to the sattva-guṇa. That we can do. And then transcend sattva-guṇa and reach the spiritual platform. Everyone is trying to improve his position, but they do not know what is meant by improvement. Improvement means mostly they are in tamo-guṇa, ignorance. So rise from tamo-guṇa to rajo-guṇa, rajo-guṇa to sattva-guṇa, and then sattva-guṇa to transcendence. That is improvement. So generally, people are suffering on account of association with tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa, whole material world, mostly tamo-guṇa and few of them in rajo-guṇa. The symptoms of rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa are lust and greediness. Just like yesterday you told me the students are talking about homosex. That means tamo-guṇa, that the education-students, they are discussing about homosex. That means tamo-guṇa, lusty desires, very prominent, and how to fulfill, by homosex or sex with woman. This is their subject matter, kāma. So everyone in this material world infected with this tamo-guṇa, all lusty desires, in various ways, varieties. And some of them in rajo-guṇa-politics and improvement of material condition. So we have to cut down this tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa, come to the sattva-guṇa. Then he'll not be disturbed by these lusty desires and greediness. Then he'll be happy. Sthita-sattve prasīdati. When he comes to the sattva-guṇa, now he has to make further progress, sattva-guṇa. And the progress means, being situated in sattva-guṇa if he advances in devotional service, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he surpasses all the material qualities. That is perfection of life.

Morning Walk -- May 11, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: There is no law; it is all lusty desire. All law or no law, these are all nonsense. The śāstra has... It is lusty desire, that's all. Everyone wants to fulfill a lusty desires. So unless one is not in the modes of goodness or transcendental, everyone will like. That is the material world, rajas-tamaḥ. Rajas-tamo-bhāvaḥ kāma-lobhadayaś ca ye (SB 1.2.19). It is all discussed in the śāstra. Just like I am hungry man. There is foodstuff. I want to eat it. So if I take by force, that is illegal, and if I pay for it, then it is legal. But I am the hungry man, I want it. This is going on. Everyone is lusty. Therefore they say "legalized prostitution." They want it. So marriage is something legalized, that's all. The passion and the desire is the same, either married or not married. So this Vedic law says, "Better married. Then you will be controlled." Married life... So he will not be so lusty as without married life. So the gṛhastha life is a concession-same lusty desire under rules and regulation. That's all. That is our higher... (?) Without married life he will commit rapes in so many ways, so better let him be satisfied with one, both the man and woman, and make progress in spiritual life. That is concession. Everyone in this material world has come with these lusty desires and greediness. Even demigods like Lord Śiva, Lord Brahmā... The Lord Brahmā became lusty after his daughter.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Then he should try to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, instead of sixteen rounds, sixty-four rounds. That is the way. Sixteen round is the minimum. Otherwise Haridāsa Ṭhākura was 300,000. So you have to increase. That is the only remedy. If one has got determination, he will make progress without any trouble. That determination is very difficult, that determination, "I must be Kṛṣṇa conscious fully." That determination. Dṛḍha-vratāḥ. So they have asked to the central government, federal government, help?

Paramahaṁsa: In New York? Yes, they asked from the President, President Ford.

Prabhupāda: That is federal government.

Paramahaṁsa: Federal government, yes. And President Ford said no.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: No, I am not talking about you particularly, but general way, general way. So this is first-class man. Śamaḥ damaḥ titikṣā. Now, suppose I was not a first-class man; I was a fourth-class man. Now I want to become a first-class man. So I was eating meat. Just these boys, European, American boys, they were eating everything. Now they have given up. On my word or to associate with me, they have given up meat-eating, illicit sex, meat-eating. So in the beginning it may be disturbing because "I am habituated to all these things, and by my spiritual master order not to do this..." So it may be disturbing. But that is called titikṣā, tolerance: "No, I have to do it. If I want to make progress to become first-class man, this is order, so I must do it even..." The tolerance. Even it is disturbing... In the beginning. It is not disturbing. In the beginning, because I habituated to do something... Just like a thief. If you ask him to become honest, it will be disturbing for him because he is habituated to steal.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Justin Murphy: Do you think you'll make it?

Paramahaṁsa: I'm making progress.

Prabhupāda: They are young men. They are all within thirty years.

Justin Murphy: And your aim, all of you, is to become first-class men?

Devotee: Yes.

Justin Murphy: Does it matter how long it might take you? Can you become first-class men soon, within five years?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, sufficient, sufficient. We can make in one year.

Justin Murphy: Really. I wish you all well. Well, I hope I won't give you offense if I look at my watch and say that...

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is a very important matter. If you do not spare time, that is your business, but... (laughs)

Room Conversation with Ganesa dasa's Mother and Sister -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now we are saying that here is God, Kṛṣṇa. They are accepting, and they are thinking of God, and they are making progress.

Sister: But have they met God?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa is God.

Sister: They can believe in Him, but have they met Him?

Prabhupāda: So belief, that is being effective. It is not blind belief. They are seeing the picture of Kṛṣṇa, and they are thinking of Kṛṣṇa, and they are making progress.

Sister: But that would be the same if I could see a picture of you or I could see a...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is a fact. My self and my picture, is there any difference?

Sister: Yes.

Discussion -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: (laughing) Then he has understood. Yes, it is all fourth-class men. He is considered a first-class man in the society. We say to him that "You are a fourth-class man." On what strength we can say like that? And he has to admit. That is our philosophy. Any first-class man, so-called first-class man, we can also say that "You are a fourth-class man," and he will agree. And if he admits, then he becomes first-class man. Then he can make progress. "I am living, a fourth-class man. I must be a first-class man." That is knowledge. So he was asking you, "Are you living first-class now?"

Amogha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: What was his question?

Room Conversation with Journalist -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that depends. By nature's course, you automatically come to human body. Now, in the human body it is a junction, whether you want to make further progress and if you want to go back again to the cycle of the birth and death and the evolutionary process. That is to be decided by you. If you want to go to God, you can go. And if you want to become again a monkey, you can do that. That will depend on your work. Yes.

Journalist: You founded the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. How long ago was that?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is since five thousand years ago or before that. You may say forty millions of years ago as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. But taking it by modern history, in your country, in the Western countries, I have started it since 1966 from New York. The movement is very, very old. But it is started in the Western countries since last seven or eight years.

Room Conversation with Journalist -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Everything. Suppose this boy is sitting down. Now I am sitting in a very nice couch. So it is not absolutely necessary that couch is required. But for getting this couch, we had to spend so much energy. So similarly, unnecessarily we have created so many things and going on. That I was going to say, that we come to the human form of life by nature's way. Now what is our duty? Our duty is to make further progress. But instead of going further progressively we are again going to become monkeys and dogs. This is our position.

Journalist: What about other artifacts of civilization like television and motorcars...

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is very good, just like we also use motorcar, but not for fashion. Suppose if we go for preaching. If we can go by car quickly, we take advantage of the car. We have got many cars for preaching work. So everything is good, provided it is used for progressive goodness. (coughs) That our mistake is that when... Now listen, there is the mistake in Darwin's theory also.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa created these four division, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, but He does not belong to any one of them. He is neither brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya nor vaiśya nor śūdra. He is transcendental. Similarly, our philosophy—just to make the human society very peaceful and making progress we wish to establish this system. A first-class man, group of men, brāhmaṇas, they will guide the kṣatriyas, and the kṣatriyas, the administrators, they will guide the vaiśya. Vaiśya means agriculture and cow protection and trade. And śūdra means those who are neither brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya nor vaiśyas. They are simply worker, assistant. So there must be division like this. The brāhmaṇas should guide the kṣatriyas, and the kṣatriyas will administer the state, and the vaiśyas will produce foodstuff, and śūdras will help. Cooperation for common benefit. But the aim is spiritual realization. That is perfect society. If everyone is śūdra, without any aim of life, then there will be chaos.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: And they are maintaining so many slaughterhouses, committing sinful life, only for misunderstanding. They do not see that "Here are some persons. They do not eat meat. They look very bright-faced. Why should I eat meat?" Anartha, unnecessarily, simply for the taste of the tongue, they are committing so much sinful activities. So just we are teaching, "Just control your tongue." That is called śamaḥ damaḥ." Because the tongue wants something, I have to eat, give it—that is not human civilization. If I control my tongue-tongue wants this thing; I say, "No, not this thing; you take this thing,"—then you are master. You are master of the senses. Otherwise you are servant of the senses. Because some of my senses want something... That is natural. But if I can control: "No, this not. This," that is called śamaḥ, damaḥ. And if I become victim of the dictation of the senses, then I cannot make progress in my spiritual life; I am third-class, fourth-class man. Mind wants to steal something. If you can control, "No, why stealing?" Then you are master. (end)

Morning Walk -- July 8, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: So America is blind, and we are lame. So let us get on the shoulder of the American blind and give him direction, and both will be benefited. The whole world will be benefited. The America, blind, he cannot see where he is going. (chuckles) And for want of money we cannot make progress. So let the Americans take on the shoulder this lame man, and I will give direction, "Go this way. Go this way." Everything will be all right. Andha-kañja-nyāya. (break) ...nice building, churches, there is no use. Take our direction. Everything will be all right. (break) ...take our direction, what is the loss on their part? Hmm? What is the possible loss? Why they will deny to take our direction? (break) (out of car:) Tell them about this andha-kañja-nyāya.

Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: No, it is not the question of domination; it is the question of logic. If you do not agree to logic, then no argument can make progress.

Uttamaśloka: Śrīla Prabhupāda, if one does not agree to logic, does that mean that they are under the influence of tamo-guṇa?

Prabhupāda: That means he is animal.

Guest: Under the influence of who?

Uttamaśloka: Tamo-guṇa.

Harikeśa: It's the mode of ignorance.

Room Conversation after Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: No, I am talking of the psychology. I have given the name, Dr. W.S. Urquhart. When I was student, he said. So he is a great authority in psychology. So I have given the date. But they say, "Now they have improved." Then what can be said? But they could not improve this position: they have become pregnant. For the last hundred and thousands and millions of years, in the history we hear that woman is pregnant. We never heard the man is pregnant. So where is the progress? If you are actually making progress, so millions of years ago, the history we hear... Even Rāmacandra, millions of years, Lord Rāmacandra. Sītā became pregnant, not Rāmacandra. If you take history, now where is the improvement? Millions of years ago, Rāmacandra. Sītā became pregnant, not Rāmacandra. The law of woman's becoming pregnant, millions of years was there. And what improvement have they made now? They say, "We have made improvement." What is that improvement?

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That purity is said, ādau śraddhā: "Beginning is faith." Now tato sādhu-saṅgaḥ: "You mix with faithful men." Then it will develop. Otherwise, if you take simply initiation and then sleep, then faith will be lost. That is happening. Therefore it is said, adau śraddhā tato sādhu-saṅgaḥ. You accept faith, maybe blindly. Now you make further progress by mixing with advanced devotees. Then it will remain fixed. Otherwise you will loss.

Bahulāśva: Faith is fixed by knowledge?

Prabhupāda: No, faith may be blind, but it increases. If you stick to faith and follow the principles, then it will increase. Svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. Just like... Yasya deve parā bhaktiḥ yathā deve tathā gurau. So if you have got faith in spiritual master then you will advance. If you have no faith, then it will be lost.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone has. Therefore the direction should be taken from the perfect, and with faith you will make progress.

Nārāyaṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, but Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that wherever one puts their faith, He gives them the steadiness to worship in that way. So how come so many people, they put their faith in all these false gurus or people that impose themself as ones who are in knowledge and then they become fooled? Is this previous activities? Sinful activities?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because if you have no faith, then Kṛṣṇa will not give you instruction. When he is faithless, he will not make progress. Stops.

Nārāyaṇa: But people are putting their faith in so many different places.

Prabhupāda: "So many" means he has no faith in anything.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: As soon as you say, "so many," that means he has no faith. He is faithless.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Yes. The same thing: the child has no knowledge, but he has faith in his parents, and he believes what his parents says. Then he is making progress.

Bahulāśva: This way.

Prabhupāda: I have faith in you. (break) Now, I give sometimes this example. Just like you go to a barber shop, and you put your neck like this, and he is with the razor. So unless you have faith, "No, he is good man. He will not cut my throat," how can you do so? So faith is the beginning. If you have no... If you say, "No, I have no faith in you," then you cannot be cleansed.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: They are faithless.

Paramahaṁsa: They will never believe.

Prabhupāda: They are faithless; therefore they will never make any progress. Their first principle is sacrifice. And in the śāstra it, ādau śraddhā: "First of all faith." And these rascals, they have no faith. Therefore they do not make any progress. And Rūpa Gosvāmī says, ādau śraddhā: "Begin with faith." So they cannot realize, condemned, because Kṛṣṇa will withdraw the knowledge. Mattaḥ smṛtir apohanaṁ ca. So Kṛṣṇa will say, "Oh, this rascal is faithless. All right, make him more faithless. He will never understand." That is atheist.

Baradrāj: What is hope for them then?

Morning Walk -- July 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Relatively everyone... The ant also thinking, "I am also some important..." That is Kṛṣṇa's proposal, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi duḥkha-doṣānu... (BG 13.9). You are trying to get out of all kinds of miserable conditions, but here is your real misery, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi: birth, death, old age... First of all conquer them. Then talk of advance. You cannot conquer even on disease. There are so many persons suffering from disease. You cannot stop it, and you're making progress? What is that progress? It is all rascaldom.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But we see that even your devotees, they are also subject to birth, death, disease and old age.

Morning Walk -- July 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, we do not say that we are making progress like you. We are trying to make spiritual progress. We are servant of God. We never say that we are very big men, Vaiṣṇava. Tṛṇād api sunīcena. We think most insignificant creature.

Paramahaṁsa: But what of our efforts to conquer cancer and tuberculosis?

Prabhupāda: No. Because we are conquering to... We are trying to avoid death. Then it is... Everything is cured. Cancer, cancer's father, grandfather, everything is cured. So we are trying for that. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that "If you simply understand Me..." Janma karma ca divyaṁ me yo jānāti tattvataḥ. Simply if you understand what is Kṛṣṇa, why He comes, what is the purpose, then you become conqueror over death. That is our philosophy. Simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa. That is our progress, how much we have understood Kṛṣṇa. And when one understands fully Kṛṣṇa-fully it is not possible; at least partially—he is conquering over death. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). That is real human life, how to conquer over death. Aihiṣṭhaṁ yat tat punar-janma-jāyāya. All the great sages and big, big kings, they left everything, went to the forest for austerity, penance. Why? To conquer over death. That is the mission.

Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But they say they've already made so much progress.

Prabhupāda: You go on making progress but you will never come to the ultimate goal. You can go on foolishly. That's all right. Just like they made progress, United Nations. What progress they have made?

Harikeśa: They made a nice building.

Prabhupāda: That's right. (laughs) There are so many buildings.

Indian man (1): But they've been going to be assassinated.

Prabhupāda: When I go that building, United Nations, I see how they are wasting money. Yes, I see.

Morning Walk -- September 15, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So our mission is to eradicate this ignorance, that they are living in a wrong conception of life. That is the point. The human society is making so-called progress under wrong conception of life. What is the answer? Therefore they have been described as mūḍha because they are living in a wrong conception, animal life. Wherefrom you have come?

Vāsughoṣa: Kathmandu. Tonight I will go to Hyderabad. I am collecting money. But one thing I find even when we explain to these people, you know... Just like smoking cigarettes. In Kathmandu I was explaining to people, "What kind of enjoyment is this from smoking cigarettes? You are coughing..." This is the way Acyutānanda Swami also describes, so I picked up from him. "You are coughing. You are killing yourself." He also described like this, "Intoxication means poison. Toxic means poison. So this is intoxication. You are actually administering poison. What kind of sanity is this?" So all those people, they told me, "Well, I'll give up cigarettes later."

Prabhupāda: At least they admit the fault, hm? Do they?

Morning Walk -- September 15, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: After that, he is fit down(?). Then, if life member comes, he can simply stay in the guest room without any charges for three days. (break)

Dhṛṣṭaketu: ...that one is making progress by how he feels, or should he just simply execute the order of the spiritual master and not worry about how he feels? How should... In other words...

Prabhupāda: If he is making progress, he must feel. If he is not making progress, then he will not feel.

Dhṛṣṭaketu: And that feeling is a willingness to serve Kṛṣṇa or...

Prabhupāda: No, that is always. Whether he is actually serving Kṛṣṇa... That is devotion. So if he is actually serving Kṛṣṇa, then anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt bhajana-kriyā. Bhajana-kriyā means anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. This is the result. If his anartha is not decreasing, or becoming zero, then he is not making bhajana. He is doing something else.

Morning Walk -- September 25, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: Society has lost this saṁskāra process; therefore they remain in the animal platform. Janman jāyate śūdra saṁskārad bhaved dvijaḥ. When a person is born even in human society, he remains a śūdra. Śūdra means almost like animal. Now he has to be reformed. That is called saṁskāra. Then twice-born. The first-class twice-born is brāhmaṇa. Second-class twice-born is kṣatriya. And third-class twice-born is the vaiśya. And remaining, who cannot be reformed, they remain śūdra. But there is cooperation between brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, and the society makes progress simultaneously for everyone. That is human society. At the present moment mostly all of them remain śūdras or less..., caṇḍālas. So how there can be any peace? It is not possible. There is no brāhmaṇa, no kṣatriya, maybe a few vaiśyas only. They are also half-reformed. And European culture, that is caṇḍāla culture, yavana culture. There is no reformation, no brāhmaṇa, no kṣatriya, no vaiśyas, simply śūdras and caṇḍālas mostly caṇḍālas.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Prabhupāda: No, Britishers. The Muslims interfered. They wanted to propagate Islamism. Not all, some of them. But Britishers, although they were spreading Christianism, still, outwardly they were neutral about religious affairs. So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura preferred that "Britishers are good. They do not interfere with our religious affair." So the idea is that India—you may say primitive or whatever you want—they wanted to make progress of the soul. They did not care who is ruling. So "Whatever tax is due we shall pay. Let us do our own business." That was India's attitude. They never thought in terms of nationalism. That was never educated. They were never educated.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (to driver) Go down this street, Prabhu.

Room Conversation -- October 15, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (to someone entering:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Come on. Jaya. This is the beginning of devotion, to be submissive. Tad viddhi praṇipātena (BG 4.34). This is the beginning, praṇipāta. This is praṇipāta, fall down, full surrender. That you have... Therefore you are making progress. Tad viddhi praṇipātena. Question? Praṇipātena paripraśnena. Praṇipāta is done. Now you can question.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Do you have any question?

Indian: I can't think of one now.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He said he can't think of one right now.

Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are not happy. Otherwise one who knows "I am Brahman," brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā—he will be happy always. That has become fashion. "Table chair brahma-jñāna," sitting on the table-chair, smoking and talking of Brahman. "Armchair brahma-jñāna." Although Kṛṣṇa is giving information, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati, samaḥ sarveṣu... mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param (BG 18.54), so they do not make further progress, mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param, to achieve that platform of bhakti. Therefore it is as good as no knowledge. These will be the symptoms of brahma-jñāna, na śocati na kāṅ..., samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. If they have got brahma-jñāna, then why they should distinguish? Just like in our country, Mahatma Gandhi, so he is designated as mahātmā, but why he was against the Englishmen, to drive them away? That is not brahma-jñāna. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. They are as good. As these white people, they do not give any chance to the other people, so similarly, Mahatma Gandhi also, he wanted that "These white people should go away." So what is the distinction? The same knowledge. "You want me ... to drive me away; I want to drive you away." So what is the distinction between you and me? The one dog is barking at another dog; another dog is barking, another dog. That's all. Where is knowledge?

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Devotee (1): 'Cause our real position is to serve Kṛṣṇa, and because we've fallen in this illusion of the material energy, so we forgot our position.

Prabhupāda: We shall do it otherwise. Why shall I please Kṛṣṇa? We are making scientific progress. What is the use of bringing God?

Devotee (2): Because we shall never become perfect or see the answer.

Prabhupāda: That is begging the question.

Indian man (3): For spreading the name of the Kṛṣṇa, in the world.

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is not the question of guru. Guru is doing all right. Why you should be so much anxious and feel obligation to please Kṛṣṇa?

Morning Walk -- November 4, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You must go to the real land. If you take, "This is land. Now I am safe," no, that is not safe. At night it will be overcome. And that, to go to the real land, means to become a devotee. Then it will stay. If you are suffering from some disease, you see now the temperature is gone down or there is no temperature, that is all right. But if you do not take care, it may relapse. That is the point. Brahma-bhutaḥ prasannātmā na śocati (BG 18.54). These are brahma-bhutaḥ stage. But samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktim. If he does not go up to that point, mad-bhaktim labhate param, then you are unstable. You can fall down at any moment. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). If you are in Brahman stage, then you make further progress to understand Paramātmā. Then you must make further progress to understand the Supreme Person, God. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti. So unless you come to the stage of understanding Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, there is no safety. Then he may fall down at any moment. Therefore we see so, so many Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, yogīs. They fall down. They fall down.

Morning Walk -- November 11, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is life. This artificial life is no life. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has described this modern civilization of artificial life. So he says, jaḍā vidyā sab, māyāra vaibhava. He declares all these artificial way of life, advancement of material civilization, means advancement of influence of māyā. Jaḍā vidyā sab, māyāra vaibhava. Expansion of the influence of māyā. Then? What is the result? The result is anitya saṁsāre, moho janmeiya. Jaḍā vidyā sab, māyār vaibhava, tomāra bhajane badha. māyā means forgetfulness of God. This is māyā. māyā means the more you forget Kṛṣṇa, the more you are involved in māyā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). So māyā's business is to cover you more and more as you forget Kṛṣṇa. This is māyā's business. So therefore, expansion of māyā's influence means forgetting Kṛṣṇa. Tomāra bhajane badha. They're all hindrances only to make spiritual progress and to understand God. So what is the net result? The net result is anitya saṁsāre, moha janmeiyā.

Morning Walk -- November 26, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Knowledge means received from the superior. Like the child gets knowledge from the father. That kind of faith is required. If the child does not believe the statement of father and mother, he cannot make any progress. If the child does not believe the statement of mother, he does not know who is his father. So there must be faith, faith in the right person. Then it is all right. If you have got faith in the person who has got eyes to lead you, then he will help you to cross the road. And if you put your faith to another blind man like you, then it will cause disaster. Faith is required, but to the right person. Then it will be all right. You know that one barber is honest: then you can make your neck like this and he is with a sharpened razor. But you have faith that "He will not cut my throat; he will shave me." This is faith.

Room Conversation -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: On the street, never mind. And similarly the demigods they are also engaged in the same business. In a different standard only. The business is the same. Āhāra-nidr-bhayam etam. So if one wants to continue this business then he'll continue this material body and if he wants to stop this business, come to his original position, then he makes real progress. But nobody is interested in advancement of spiritual life. Generally they take to religion, religiosity, for material happiness. Artho 'rhati. I am distressed, I have no money, or I am suffering from some disease; you'll find all these. So all of them go to the sādhus only for this purpose. Sir, I am suffering from some disease, so without going to the doctor, and saving so much money, let me pay hundred rupees to the sādhu and he'll give me his blessings. So I will save thousands of rupees, for curing the disease. For this purpose they go to sādhu. Nobody goes to sādhu for going back to home back to godhead. It is only (material) proposition. Otherwise the so-called yogis, sādhus, swamis, they are making good luck business simply by promising that you'll get this material power. This Mahesh Yogi he says that, what is his philosophy?

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: As soon as you say "progressing," that means they are rascals. Unless one is rascal, what is the meaning of progress? Hm? Rascal requires progress.

Dr. Patel: Whether they do progress or regress we don't know, but...

Prabhupāda: No, that progress means still rascals. After ten years they'll make no... This is progress. So they have no standard knowledge, and that is very much palatable, modern progress. Mūḍha.

Dr. Patel: But sincerely by all these six, six, I mean śāstra, I mean what you call darśanals(?), our forefathers have realized God, by all the six methods of darśanas.

Prabhupāda: You, why your forefathers? Everyone's forefather can understand.

Page Title:Make progress (Conversations 1968 - 1975)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, RupaManjari
Created:26 of Sep, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=100, Let=0
No. of Quotes:100