Prabhupāda: Don't execute religious principles for making your economic problem solved. Then? "We require some money." Yes. "What for?" Nārthasya dharmaikāntasya kāmo lābhāya hi smṛtaḥ. And even if you get money, that is not for your sense gratification. Nārthasya dharmaikāntasya. If you are religious, really, actually, a man of religiosity, then your money is not for sense gratification, as we are teaching our boys. They are working hard, they are getting money and they are spending for Kṛṣṇa. You see? Because they have understood that "My energy spent for Kṛṣṇa's cause is really utilized. And if I utilize my energy for sense gratification, then I am cats and dogs." So nārthasya. If you get money... You must get money. But it is not meant for sense gratification. "Then what is the, it is meant? We have got senses. We have to satisfy it." Yes. You have to satisfy it, but not for enjoyment. As far as you require it. You require fooding. Yes, for maintaining your body. Not for satisfying the tongue. "This, I want to eat this, I want to eat that, I want to eat that." No. Eat something. Just maintain your body. That's all. You sleep just to keep yourself fit to work. Not that sleeping for twelve hours, fourteen hours. No. Six, seven, utmost eight. That's all. Then eating, sleeping, defending. That's also required. Defend yourself. Not to encroach upon other's property. Just like Hitler sending soldiers in others' country. Why? You defend your own country. That's all right. You defend your home. That is not prohibited.
Maintaining the body (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"bodies"
|"body"
|"maintain"
|"maintained"
|"maintaining"
|"maintains"
|"maintenance"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is my program. Because Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not possible for everyone. Because in the Bhagavad-gītā we learn, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). After many, many births one can come to this. So it is not possible that a mass of people, a large quantity of people will be able to grasp it. You see? Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). Another place it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3). After many thousands of men, one may be interested how to liberate himself. And out of many such liberated persons, one may understand what is Kṛṣṇa. So understanding of Kṛṣṇa is not very easy thing. But Lord Caitanya is so munificent that He has given us a, I mean to say, easy process. (indistinct) Otherwise Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not easy. Because Kṛṣṇa is the last word of Absolute Truth. Generally, people are just like animals. Out of many such persons, one becomes interested in the scriptures. And out of many such persons, if they're attracted to the scriptures, they're attracted to the ritualistic ceremony for improving their economic condition. You see? Just like Christians, they go to... Not Christian, everyone. They take up religion with a motive that they may improve their economic position. Dharma, artha. Artha means money. And then why artha? Why you want money? Now, to satisfy senses. Kāma. Dharma, artha, kāma. And when one becomes frustrated in sense gratification, then liberation, to merge. These four things are going on. Dharma, artha, kāma. The Bhāgavata says that dharma is not meant for acquiring money. Money is not meant for satisfying senses. Sense gratification should be accepted simply to maintain this body. That's all. The real business is tattva-jijñāsā, to understand. The human life is meant for understanding the Absolute Truth. Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā naś ceha yat karmabhiḥ. Kāmasya nendriya-pritir labho jīveta yāvatā (SB 1.2.10). Kāmasya, sense gratification, does not mean you have to increase the volume of sense gratification. No. Jīveta yāvatā, you have to accept sense gratification so far as you can live very nicely. The real business is jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā. Every human being should be inquisitive to know the Absolute Truth. That is the real business of human life. So to come to that business, you won't find mass of people. It is not possible. You don't expect.
Allen Ginsberg: Well, I suppose not. You could say there is no difference because the food is basically the same materially. It's just a question of the style.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now you take... Style may be different. That's all right. Besides that, to maintain your body and soul together, you require eating, you require sleeping, you require mating, you require defense. We don't say that you don't do this. Kṛṣṇa was... Arjuna was defending. Rather, he wanted to be nonviolent. "Oh, what is the use of fighting?" Kṛṣṇa said, "No. It is required. You should." So where is the difference? There is no difference. Simply we are adjusting things so that you may become happy. Any intelligent man will take it. We are not prohibiting, but we are adjusting. So there is no difficulty. Simply intelligent persons like you should try to understand and take it and administer because your country is wanting this.
Prabhupāda: Then you... That is bogus. You cannot love everybody. If you love God, then you can love everybody. Because God is everything. So just like if you pour water on the root...
Guest (2): If God is everything, then why don't you, not loving one by one? Why...?
Prabhupāda: Yes. But you... That is... Just like if you love one tree, then you have to pour water on the root. Not that every leaf. If you want to maintain your body, then you have to supply foodstuff in the stomach. Not to your eyes. Not to your ear. When you get a nice cake, you don't put it here. You put it here. Why? That is the process. There are nine holes in your body. Why do you put in this hole?
Guest (2): Yes, but...
Prabhupāda: First of all answer this.
Guest (2): Well, I agree with you, but...
Prabhupāda: You have to follow the real process; then you'll get it. That is love.(?)
Guest (2): You have to go to the root but in the meantime we don't ignore everything else. I mean...
Prabhupāda: If you ignore the root and you take the leaf you simply spoil your time.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice. Yes. Whenever somebody comes from there, something must be brought, because these things are not available. (break) ...Indian, you cannot excel in mechanical knowledge the Europeans, American. That is not possible. We will always remain hundred years back. Everyone has got some special talent given by God. We should cooperate. That's it. The hand can work in this way. We cannot walk with hands. That is the business of the hand. Similarly, I cannot cut the papers with leg. So all living entities are endowed with special... We should cooperate. The hand and leg should cooperate for maintaining the whole body. Similarly, everyone should use his talent for satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection. Not compete with one another. That is mistake.
Devotee (2): (unwrapping package) It's not the microphone.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Devotee (2): I don't think it's the microphone. (break)
Prabhupāda: They never reply.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: (Bengali?) What is your body. This external body, that is your energy. Do you know that? The body is made out of your own energy. Just like I am eating.
Bob: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: So I am creating some energy, and therefore my body is maintained.
Bob: Oh, I see.
Prabhupāda: So therefore your body is made out of your energy.
Bob: But when you eat the food, there is energy from the sun in the food...
Prabhupāda: No, that... I am giving the example, I am creating some energy by digesting the food and that is maintaining my body. Therefore my body is maintained by my energy. If your energy supply is not proper, then your body becomes not in proper order. Therefore the conclusion is that your body is made out of your own energy. Similarly, why this big gigantic body, universes, is not made of Kṛṣṇa's energies? How can you deny? As your body is made out of your energy, similarly, the universal body must be made by somebody's energy. That is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice. So Veda, Veda means knowledge. So every human being should be interested for advancement of knowledge. So our movement is not a religious movement. It is a movement for advancement of knowledge. And this knowledge, God consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is especially meant for this human body. Because knowledge cannot be given to animals. I cannot speak to the other animals about knowledge because they are imperfect. Their body is imperfect. They are not suitable for receiving knowledge. Only elementary knowledge for maintaining this body, they have got: where to secure food, where to sleep, how to have sexual intercourse, and how to defend. These knowledges are there in animals also. So human being requires further knowledge. That is special prerogative, gift by God, by nature. Whatever you say. So we should utilize this human body for furtherance of knowledge. And the first important knowledge is that we should know that there is life after death. That is the basic principle of knowledge.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Mr. Wadell: Yes, you cannot live without... You do not, as we say, live by bread alone. And in that sense—it may be the sense in which you wish me to take—the sense, what you are saying, that God supplies bread, because bread could be both bread for the spirit or soul...
Prabhupāda: No, bread is material. Bread is material. To maintain your material body, you require material bread. But spiritual body does not depend on material bread.
Mr. Wadell: Could we go back to the relationship between you or all of us and God? What my own experience has suggested to me is that the language which I use and the language which has been used by others to describe what we think Him to be is not really capable of accomplishing this very difficult task. It is an impossible task in fact because we are describing something which is so immeasurably greater, more difficult to understand fully. We can have a relationship, but I find it, the language which we use, is of...
Prabhupāda: Insufficient.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right.
Mother: Isn't that a great joy, a great joy to you?
Prabhupāda: That's... For translating of books it does not require... Of course, it requires when the purport of the translation is given. Otherwise,... Real thing is culture. That education is culture. Simply money-making education for maintaining this body, that education will not satisfy any more. Just like I told you, that despite all arrangements of education, why the young men are turning to be hippies? That is my question.
Mother: Oh, but not your followers. Your followers are not being hippies, people who follow you. Therefore you've got the people who you could help to become cultured like you.
Prabhupāda: So my father educated me in a different way. Therefore I have come to this stage. My father never allowed me even to drink tea.
Mother: But you don't train people to be medical men.
Prabhupāda: No, first of all, if we can get it easily...
Mother: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Our training is... First of all, try to understand. We... Just like you have got four divisions in the body for maintaining the body. So the head division, the arm division, the belly division, and the leg division. The leg is doing its own work, walking. The hand is doing its own work. And the belly's doing its own work. And the brain is doing own work. It does not mean that when the brain is work, it does not require the help of the leg. But a brain does not require to learn the business of the leg. This is the idea. The brain requires the help of the leg. But does not mean that brain has to learn how to walk also.
Mother: Well, I'm a nurse, and so that is why I would like...
Prabhupāda: So there must be division of work. So you take from... When there is necessity of brain work, you take help from him. And when there is need of the walking, take leg, help from the leg. It is a cooperation. Not that everyone has to learn everything.
Prabhupāda: Why not, why not? The general symptom is animal eats, you eat, animal sleeps, you sleep, animal has sex, you have got sex, animal also defends, you also defend. Where is the difference?
Yogeśvara: His point was that human beings, they think on higher platforms than animals do.
Prabhupāda: What that higher platform? Eating, you require to maintain the body. I eat something, you eat another. That does not mean higher or lower. You eat, I also eat. That's all. You eat according to your taste. I eat according to my taste. So the eating is the real symptom, not the varieties of eating. By varieties of eating, suppose I... A animal, the cow is eating grass, and you are eating the same animal by keeping a huge slaughterhouse with machines and... Does it mean that you have improved your eating process? Simply by having big, big machine and ghastly scenes. And the animal eats simple grass. Does it mean that you are advanced than the animals? There is no logic. Eating is eating. One man's food, another man's poison. That is another thing. But eating is there. Somebody eats poison. Somebody eats ordinary thing. But eating is there. So nobody can avoid eating. That is the main symptom. Even in human society, there are different varieties of food. We Indians, we like a different type of dish. European, Americans, they like a di... But eating is there. Either American, Indian or cats, dogs, eating must be there. That is real symptom. After eating, you must sleep. That is essential. So where is the difference of real character, characteristic between the animals and the human beings?
Prabhupāda: Purport.
Haṁsadūta: Purport: "This is the duty of everyone to mold his life in such a way that he will not forget Kṛṣṇa in any circumstance. Everyone has to work for maintenance of his body and soul together, and Kṛṣṇa recommends herein that one should work for Him. Everyone has to eat something to live. Therefore he should accept the remnants of foodstuffs offered to Kṛṣṇa. Any civilized man has to perform some religious..."
Prabhupāda: "You give Me." "Whatever you eat, you give Me," Kṛṣṇa says.
Haṁsadūta: "Any civilized man has to perform some religious ritualistic ceremonies. Therefore Kṛṣṇa recommends..."
Haṁsadūta: This is vaidikī.
Haṁsadūta: "...Do it for Me."
Yogeśvara: Vaidikī.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
rabhupāda: So, in this way, as soon as we understand or become convinced that I am not this body, then spiritual education begins. (If) I am different, then the next question will be, then what for I am working? Naturally at the present moment we are working for this body, maintenance of the body. For eating, sleeping, having facility for sex life or sense gratification and to protect this body from being harmed. This is our business. But if I am not this body, then, I am spirit soul, then the next question will be, what I am doing for the spirit soul? When actually I am working for this body because I, spirit soul, is within this body. Just like we are keeping this room fit for habitation because I am living here. Three months or four months ago we are not in possession of this room. So we were not anxious about this room. Because we were not living. So actually I am keeping my body fit, nice, just to live within this body. Therefore actually I do not love this body, I love myself. And to keep myself in a nice position, I love this room or this house. My main business is to get me, as I am, comfortable. Not that it is my business to keep this house neat and clean only. No. No, my business is to keep myself fit.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Ah. They're Vaiṣṇava. But because they have got to live in the material world, there must be division of work. If everyone wants to become the brain, who will act as leg? That is also required. If everyone says, "No, no, I'm not going to do the work of leg. I want simply to work as..." No. It is needed. The brain is needed, the hand is needed, the belly is needed, the leg is needed. So that we have to divide. Who will work as brain, who will work as hand, who will work as leg... The main aim is how to maintain this body perfectly, fit. That should be the aim, how the society will go on nicely. And for management, this hand, leg, brain, belly must be divided. Just like there's slight difference, those who are directly engaged in temple worship and those who are going to sell books. Apparently there's difference, but basically there is no difference. Like that. If one can sell books nicely, why he should be, I mean to say, engaged in the temple worship? He can do better work in that way. But there is no difference between selling the books and temple worship. Or washing the dish. There's no difference, because it is all transcendental. Just like aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti. Kṛṣṇa's hands and legs, there's no difference. You've read this verse?
Haṁsadūta: Yes, aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya...
Prabhupāda: But still leg and hand.
Girirāja: "Unless we have a particular type of body, we cannot enjoy or suffer according to our mental proclivities inherited from the previous life." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...another example. Asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. It is said that this living entity is untouched by this material body. Asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. So the example is given that the moon reflected on water appears to be moving, but moon is separate from that movement. (Hindi) Go on. (Hindi) (break) ...good example. Unnecessarily he thinks that "I belong to this country, I belong to this society." That means he creates another body. And if he knows perfectly well that "I do not belong to any of these bodies," that is brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). That teaching required, that every being is unattached to this body. Therefore yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape... Anyone who is maintaining himself under bodily concept of life, he is no better than the animals. (break) The demonic person does not accept any good lesson. Mūrkhāyopadeṣo hi prakopāya na śāntaye. Because he is foolish, if you give him good advice, he will be angry. Still, we have to do that.
Prabhupāda: No, in last war they ate stool also.
Yogeśvara: Concentration camps.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Really? What is the Vaiṣṇava point of view?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Is a Vaiṣṇava, is he willing to maintain his body for the service of Lord Kṛṣṇa even if he has to break regulative principles—if it is necessary?
Prabhupāda: If it is necessary.
Yogeśvara: What's the name of that yogi who meditated for sixty thousand years?
Nitāi: Saubhari? Viśvāmitra.
Prabhupāda: Vālmīki.
Yogeśvara: No.
Nitāi: Viśvāmitra?
Prabhupāda: Viśvāmitra.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): The ability to think, the ability to encounter different situations and solve different problems, and the ability to plan for the future. And memory.
Prabhupāda: So both of them are life. And what is this body?
Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He doesn't understand very much the meaning of the question.
Prabhupāda: Just like the animal. He is busy in maintaining the body. He wants to eat, he wants to sleep, and he wants to have sex, and he wants to defend. So man is also in need of these things. The method may be different. So dog's eating and man's eating, the method may be different. That method is also different in different countries also. So because the method may be different, therefore he is distinct from animal?
Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying again that he thinks the difference between man and animal is that the man can postpone his desires or feelings or sublimate them. Then he also said that he did not come so much for dialogue. He wanted to hear our position, but... I don't know what he's saying. These questions and answers seem to disturb him.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He said that he came here... he wants to know, more or less, our views on psychiatry.
Prabhupāda: Of course, I am not a psychiatrist, but what is the subject matter of psychiatrist? May I know? So far I know, that when a man becomes mad, he requires consultation of a psychiatrist.
Prabhupāda: Ah. That we are giving. That we are giving you, that no more death, no more birth, no more old age, and no more disease.
Reporter: But couldn't your disciples perform all the wonderful things that you have them do and at the same time provide outer material service?
Prabhupāda: They are doing. They are doing. What they are not doing? They are doing all service. We have got this body. We have to maintain this body. We are doing everything. We are also eating, we are also sleeping, as you are eating, we are sleeping. Where is the difference? We also allow sex, but not illicit sex. We allow eating, but no meat-eating. That is the difference. We are also eating, as you are eating. We are sleeping, as you are sleeping. Where is the difference?
Reporter: Perhaps only in some perceptions.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Reporter: Perhaps only in some perceptions.
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Governor: Coordination.
Prabhupāda: Coordination. As head is also trying to maintain the body nicely, this arm is also. Now this has been nationally centralized. So that is the idea. Not that "Because I am head, brāhmaṇa, oh, here is a śūdra. Oh, don't see his face." Why? Śūdra is also required. Leg is also required. Head is also required.
Governor: It is an harmonious coordination.
Prabhupāda: Yes, harmonious coordination. But the śūdras were hated like anything, and they became Mohammedans. And there was no reacceptance. Formerly, from Caitanya literature we understand, that if the Musselman will take little water from the badna (?) and sprinkle like this, then you become Mohammedan. In this way all these Indians, they became Mohammedan. And the result is now the Pakistan, and you go on fighting forever. Why these innocent persons who were by sprinkling water became Mohammedan, why they do not claim? Kṛṣṇa and the śāstra, it does not say that if one has fallen, you cannot reclaim him. No, why not reclaim him? Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa... (BG 9.32). This is by birth. And of course, in our country everything was taken by birth. Now it is going on. But even by birth one is low-grade...
Governor: No, birth also was built up by a tradition. They were brought up in that atmosphere.
Prabhupāda: The karmīs, they work hard because they are asses. The ass example is given. Just like the picture you have seen, ass?
Brahmānanda: In the movie, yes.
Prabhupāda: There? You see? He is loading so much, and what he is eating? Little grass. So the ass does not know, "The grass is available here. Why shall I work for him?" That is ass. He is working so hard for a few morsel of grass, and the grass is all over the world, but he will take the load. That is ass. My problem is eating, sleeping, mating, so I can arrange for these things very easily. Anywhere, I till the ground and get some food. I keep some cows and I have got land, then my whole economic question is solved. Why shall I make this bambhārambha-bharam udvahato vimūḍhān, big, big...? You do it, but why should you forget your real business? That is the defect, that you are so foolish that only for this maintaining body, you have forgotten your real business.
Brahmānanda: In the First Canto?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Dharmasya hy āpavargyasya nārtho 'rthāyopakalpate. The first thing is that people become religious. Just like in your Christian religion they go to the church to get some material profit. "Oh God, give us our daily bread." This is material profit. Similarly, Hindus or Muslims, they become religious, dharma artha kāma mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90), the material activities. Those who are actually advanced... Those who are not even human beings, their philosophy is different. Those who are human beings, their dharma, religion. Then artha, economic development, and then kāma, sense gratification, and then mokṣa, liberation. These four things are taken as general activities. So Bhāgavata says your dharma... Religious principle means the ultimate goal is how to become liberated, not artha. Artha means economic development. So then question may be if you do not, if we are not economically developed then how we shall live? The Bhāgavata says that you can make economic development as far as it maintains your body and soul together. Not that making whole life economic development and real purpose of life forget. This is foolishness. So dharma, artha. Dharma means, religious advancement means how to get out of this material condition. Not that I go to temple and chant, "God, give me millions of dollars, and this, and that." This is not possible. It is good that one has gone to God to ask some help, that much credit is there. You have found out the verse?
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Ṛṣi-kumāra: What about those who are just possessing enough to maintain their bodies?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Body is maintained by the birds and beasts. The worms, ants, they also maintaining body, but they do not possess anything. So therefore, natural law is that without possessing, you can maintain yourself.
Ṛṣi-kumāra: You have to possess some food and some shelter.
Prabhupāda: No, no. The food is supplied. Who is supplying food? If there is a hole in your room and so many thousands of ants are coming out, who is supplying food? Are you supplying that "Here is a hole. There are ants. They must be given some food"? Of course, that is your duty according to Vedic civilization. But who is doing that? But he is quite healthy. There are so many fishes in the water, many millions. Who is giving food them? There are many elephants in African jungles. They eat at a time forty kilos. So who is supplying food? This is not the problem. If the bird, beast, animals, fishes, aquatics and cats, dogs, everyone, can get food, what you have done that you will not get your food? You are human being. This is the right conclusion, that "If food is supplied to the elephants and to the ant by some superior arrangement, what I have done that I will not get my food?" Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovidaḥ. Find out this verse. It is not in Bhagavad-gītā. In Bhāgavata.
Prabhupāda: This is called hog life, how to maintain this body. Kaṣṭan kāmān. Kāmān means necessities of life. Very, with great difficulty... (break) ...kāmān. Life can be easily maintained by agriculture and cow protection. No. They will start big, big mills, factories, motor tires, cars, instruments. Kaṣṭan kāmān. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is called ugra-karma, fierce... (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Fierceful activities.
Vraja-vasi: Haribol!
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kaṣṭan kāmān. Unnecessarily creating problems. (break) ...one after another, one after another. Formerly paper was used only for Vedic knowledge. Now the paper used for so many useless newspaper, volumes and volumes and jasusi(?), unnecessarily creating agitation of the mind. And if you explain these things they will say, "This is all primitive ideas." Modern ideas means one must work very hard day and night to get a little piece of capati. Hm? What is the answer.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You once said that anyone who has a material body is a rascal.
Prabhupāda: A rascal, that's all. And they are trying to maintain this body, although the rascals know it will not be maintained. You cannot. You are not allowed to maintain, neither you'll be allowed. Still, they are trying. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Which is impossible, cannot be allowed, and they are trying for it. How this body can be maintained? "Yes, we are trying. Now the disease has been reduced. Now they are living more days." These are their foolish. They will never say "No, it is impossible." Still, they will support their rascal endeavors. (aside:) No, that's all right.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That is another sign of their rascaldom, that they don't accept that all of their endeavors to maintain the body will be defeated.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are seeing, experiencing. History never says that any man has become immortal, even Hiranyakasipu, and what to speak of these small demons. A great demon like Hiranyakasipu, he could not, and what to speak of these tiny demons? One kick is sufficient to kill them.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Kṛṣṇa, He describes so...
Prabhupāda: No, you can play this.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Okay, play back. Comes in handy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Eh? (Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa plays back tape recording:)
Prabhupāda: "They are trying to maintain this body although the rascals know it will not be maintained. You cannot, you are not allowed to maintain, neither you'll be allowed. Still they are trying. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30)."
Harikeśa: (aside:) The car is there.
Prabhupāda: No, we shall walk. (tape recording continues)
Prabhupāda: "It is impossible. It will not be allowed, and they are trying for it. How this body can be maintained? 'Yes, we are trying. Now the disease has been reduced. Now they are living more days.' These are their foolish. They will never say, 'No, it is impossible.' Still, they will support their rascal endeavors." Modern advancement of science, what actually they have done? We are talking on that point. Simply misleading. The Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has sung one nice... (tape recorded section accidentally plays) "eating meat and drinking wine." (Prabhupāda and devotees laugh at interruption. Harikeśa apologizes) That... He says, jada vidy saba māyāra vaibhava. Jada vidyā means material education, the so-called material science. So jada vidyā. Vidyā means education, so this expansion of knowledge means expansion of the influence of māyā. Jada vidyā saba māyāra vaibhava. And the result is tomāra bhajane bādhā. People will forget God. With the advancement of so-called material science or material knowledge, the result will be that people will forget God. And then next, next is anitya saṁsāre moha janamiya. "This material world, which is temporary, where we cannot stay, we are already captivated, but this advancement of material knowledge will make me more captive, and I shall work just like an ass." That's all. Now, whether he is right or wrong, tell me.
Yaśomatīnandana: māyā is killing the scientists.
Dr. Patel: (Gujarati) But that is what it is, sir. Really, it set me thinking when I was a small baby boy, how this could maintain the body of a dog if there was no something in it. It is a very important thing to understand. Think about it.
Prabhupāda: ...good substance, very good substance. Stool is full of hypophosphates.
Dr. Patel: Whatever it is, but there it is...
Prabhupāda: That was analyzed by a big doctor. You know that Dr. Ghosh who came? Dr. Ghosh from Allahabad? So one day I went to his house, and I saw in a plate something yellow is kept. And "What is this, doctor?" "Oh, that is stool to be examined."
Dr. Patel: The stool, so long it is in your body, it is you, a part of you, because we are all, majority of us are body conscious. There are very few people like you, who are so conscious.
Prabhupāda: That is Māyāvāda philosophy.
Dr. Patel: Here we are talking about the divyā part of the...
Prabhupāda: Because, no, He was questioned...
Dr. Patel: ...of the life. I talk of the maintenance of the body. To maintain the body Karl Marx put up this theory and, I mean, spoiled the whole thing—whole society and social set-up.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi to a passerby) Everyone is manufacturing; that is my point. Either Karl Marx or this one or that one, everyone is manufacturing. No one is taking the instruction. And our mission is "Take instruction of Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We don't manufacture like nonsense. What you'll manufacture? You are imperfect, your senses are imperfect...
Dr. Patel: We are manufacturing only for the body, but all these...
Prabhupāda: Nothing you can manufacture, even in the body. You are medical practitioner, hundreds of men you see, different types of body. Is it not? You cannot say that this is the standard." Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgasya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu. The actual disease is the contamination of the guṇa.
Prabhupāda: If I drink urine, still I will have to be punished. By the law. I'm drinking urine, and because I have violated law, I will have to be punished. This is God.
Dr. Patel: There is, sir, one matter in Ayurvedas, svayāmbu cikitsā, wherein people are drinking their own urine, because urine is not only water and waste products but there are certain broken, I mean what you call important articles, of body maintainence.
Prabhupāda: So those.... You are advising your patients to go and drink...?
Dr. Patel: No, I don't say. But that is not so bad, because it contains those hormones.... (Prabhupāda breaks in laughing) It does contain the hormones, I mean it has been analyzed like that, scientifically. It is not to be joked about.
Prabhupāda: No. It is analyzed. And stool is full of hydrophosphites. Yes, that is another.... Stool is full of hydrophosphites.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Hari-śauri: Their idea is just to exploit.
Prabhupāda: Hah, yes. Everyone is trying to get more, and nature's order is that you take only to maintain your body and soul together. That's all. If you take more, then you are thief, you'll be punished by the laws of nature. This is going on. Laws of nature are so fine that by material activities you'll never be satisfied, and at the time of death, he'll lament that "I could not satisfy my desires. Let me take..." "All right, take another body. Satisfy." This is nature's punishment. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). Simple things. We desire, and nature will give you another body. māyā-yantrārūḍhāni. He'll give you, "Ride on this car, you wanted, on this body." And this... This is creation of māyā. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe... (BG 18.61). Kṛṣṇa is there, orders māyā, "He wants to enjoy life. Give him this body." "Come on, here is a hog's body, eat nicely, stool. Come on." He did not like to eat prasādam. He wanted something rubbish. "All right, come here. Take this stool." These things are going automatically. The same way, as you infect some disease, immediately the disease is there. You haven't got to manufacture diseases. Because you have infected yourself with the disease germ, "Take this disease." Therefore it is warned, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11), "Don't desire anything except Kṛṣṇa's service." Then you are immune. Otherwise you have to take birth. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they take the Absolute Truth void, so they have no good desires, again they come to material desires.
Prabhupāda: He's serving Kṛṣṇa. He's not material necessities.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So Kṛṣṇa is supplying all facility at least to maintain body and soul together.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. I went to your country without any money. Now Kṛṣṇa has given. I went with forty rupees; now I have forty crores. Who has done this business? So if you serve Kṛṣṇa, so Kṛṣṇa will supply everything, whatever you need, require. He doesn't require to ask for it.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The question then is, is a devotee required to work very hard for material necessities?
Prabhupāda: Yes. He has to work sincerely to serve Kṛṣṇa. Then everything is there.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Even he doesn't consider material necessity?
Prabhupāda: Where is material necessity? Even for the cats and dogs, there is no material necessities. It is all supplied by Kṛṣṇa. It is simply māyā that "I am in material necessities." There are eight million lower species of life. Who is doing business for his...? We, simply civilized men, we are doing this. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa is supplying everyone. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. He supplies everything. Even the ant within the hole of your room, are you giving any food?
Devotees: No.
Pradyumna: ...when someone is sleeping and dreaming, that the seer has left the gross body?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Bharadvāja: How does the.... Life symptoms, how are the life symptoms maintained in the body?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Bharadvāja: The life symptoms are maintained in the body still?
Prabhupāda: No, life symptoms, there is not. The body's fit; therefore, he comes back again. When the body is not fit, he enters another body. Just like your car you leave. We have come here. Now the car is all right; we go. If it is useless, we don't go. We take another.
Bharadvāja: The body is breathing.
Hṛdayānanda: That is like leaving the motor running.
Prabhupāda: They, unless the seer returns back, the body will lie down. That is death. The seer no more comes back. Then it is dead.
Prabhupāda: Cover designs?
Mahendra: They like the cover, but they're afraid to look inside.
Rādhāvallabha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, at the time of death, when the soul leaves the body, at that time the body is destroyed. So at the time of sleeping, when the soul leaves the body, how is the body maintained?
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Rādhāvallabha: At the time of sleeping, when the soul leaves the body, why is the body not destroyed at that time?
Prabhupāda: Why? Suppose you have left the car; does that mean it is destroyed? You are going again.
Rādhāvallabha: But at the time of death it is destroyed when you leave it.
Prabhupāda: Death is different. When the car is no more usable, that is death. But we are returning to the car because we know that it is usable. And if we know that it is useless, we don't go to that car. That is death.
Yadubara: Śrīla Prabhupāda. At the time of sleeping, there is a subtle reality that the subtle body enters into?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Reality means as you take this awakening vision as reality, similarly, the dream vision is also real.... Nothing, none of them are reality. They are all temporary.
Prabhupāda: Connection is there, just like you leave your car, you keep the engine going on—gug gug gug gug gug gug—but you are not there. The engine, you keep it started.
Rāmeśvara: Somehow the soul's influence is still there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You make that engine keeping—gug gug gug gug. If you like you can stop.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is it actually Kṛṣṇa who's maintaining the life in the body then? The life of the body is maintained by Kṛṣṇa or by the individual jīva?
Prabhupāda: No, by Kṛṣṇa. Everything is Kṛṣṇa's property. You are thinking, "It is mine." Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. I am the proprietor of this body, but another body is there. He is the proprietor of all the bodies. Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. The landlord, he's the proprietor. You are occupier, that's all.
Rāmeśvara: Oh. So the Lord in the heart is keeping that body for that jīva, so that when he's finished dreaming he comes back to it.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Scheverman: This comes out of a Hindu record.
Prabhupāda: So, here in this Bhagavad-gītā, it is ordered that the human society must be divided into four divisions, and they should cooperate for understanding God. Just like in our body there is the head, there is the arm, there is the belly and there is the leg. So they are all cooperating for maintaining the body. Although head is very important than the leg, but leg is also required. Simply head will not be able to keep the body in good condition.
Scheverman: Yes, our Saint Paul uses that very imagery in his Epistle to the Corinthians, Tenth Chapter. Yes.
Prabhupāda: So that is mentioned in this book. So head means first-class intelligent. A class of men.
Kern: How about people who aren't first-class intelligence, people, as you mentioned, the foolish. What message...?
Prabhupāda: No, they should be trained up. The foolish man.... Just like a foolish child can be trained up to be very nicely educated to pass M.A. examination. Child is..., all children are foolish. That is accepted. But by training him, we can make him the first-class intelligent man.
Reporter: "But in the Western world we have a working class and a capitalist class, and there is always warfare going on between the two."
Prabhupāda: "Yes, the capitalist class is required and the working class is also required."
Reporter: "But they are fighting."
Prabhupāda: "Because they are not trained up, they have no common cause. The hand and leg work differently, but the common cause is to maintain the body. So if you find out the common cause for both the capitalists and the workers, then there will be no fighting. But if you do not know the common cause, then there will always be fighting."
Reporter: "Revolution?"
Prabhupāda: "Yes."
Reporter: "Then the most important thing is to find the common cause that people can unite on."
Śrīla Prabhupāda: "Yes. Just like in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness society. You come to consult me about every activity because I can give you the common cause. Otherwise there will be fighting. The government should be very expert to know the aim of life, the common cause, and they should train the people to work for the common cause Then they will be happy and peaceful. But if people simply elect rascals like Nixon, they will never find a common cause. Any rascal can secure votes by some arrangement and then he becomes the head of the government. The candidates are bribing. They are cheating. They are making propaganda to win votes. Somehow or other they get votes and capture the prime posts. This system is bad."
Prabhupāda: "You require brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas and śūdras. Just as when you want to construct a building you require engineers. You don't want sweepers. Isn't that so? What will the sweeper do? No. There must be engineers. So if you follow the division of varṇāśrama, only kṣatriyas are allowed to govern. And for the legislative assembly, the senators, only qualified brāhmaṇas. Now the butcher is in the legislative assembly. What does he know about making laws? He is a butcher. But by winning votes he becomes a senator. At the present moment, by the principle of vox populi, a butcher goes to the legislature. So everything depends on training. In our Kṛṣṇa consciousness society we are actually doing that. But in the case of politics they forget it. There cannot be just one class. That is foolishness. Because we have to engage different classes of men in different activities. If we do not know the art then we will fail, because unless there is a division of work there will be havoc. We have discussed all the responsibilities of the king in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The different classes in society should cooperate exactly as the different parts of the body do. Although each part is meant for a different purpose, they all work for one cause, to maintain the body properly."
Dhṛṣṭadyumna:
- niyataḥ kuru karma tvaṁ
- karma jyāyo hy akarmaṇaḥ
- śarīra-yatrāpi ca te
- na prasiddhyed akarmaṇaḥ
"Perform your prescribed duty, for action is better than inaction. A man cannot even maintain his physical body without work."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness does not mean to keep a set of men lazy, who cannot work. That is not Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Everyone must work to his capacity. Prescribed duties. They accuse us that we are escaping. Huh? What is that? We do not escape. We are always busy.
Devotee: Recently I had an opportunity to see a (indistinct) farm community, and I was talking to one of the boys there about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and they said "You are under Swami Prabhupāda." They said, "We have never seen Prabhupāda smile." I told them that "Yes, birth, death, disease, and old age are nothing to smile about."
Prabhupāda: There are so many pictures, smiling. (laughter)
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: They have not read your Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You are smiling here.
Prabhupāda: No. There are so many. Hmm. What is that?
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Purport? "There are many pseudo meditators who misrepresent themselves as belonging to high parentage, and great professional men who falsely pose that they have sacrificed everything for the sake of advancement in spiritual life. Lord Kṛṣṇa did not want Arjuna to become a pretender, but that he perform his prescribed duties as set forth for kṣatriyas. Arjuna was a householder and a military general, and therefore it was better for him to remain as such and perform his religious duties as prescribed for the householder kṣatriya. Such activities gradually cleanse the heart of a mundane man and free him from material contamination. So-called renunciation for the purpose of maintenance is never approved by the Lord, nor by any religious scripture. After all, one has to maintain one's body and soul together by some work. Work should not be given up capriciously, without purification of materialistic propensities. Anyone who is in the material world is certainly possessed of the impure propensity for lording it over material nature, or, in other words, for sense gratification. Such polluted propensities have to be cleared. Without doing so, through prescribed duties, one should never attempt to become a so-called transcendentalist, renouncing work and living at the cost of others."
Prabhupāda: That is not the right way. Kṛṣṇa never said to Arjuna that "You haven't got to fight. You sit down, I shall do everything." He never said that. "You have to fight." Nimitta-mātraṁ bhava savyaśacin. "And the result is already created by Me, but you have to make a manifestation of fighting." Just like our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Within eight or ten years we have developed so much. Is it humanly possible? It is Kṛṣṇa's plan. But Kṛṣṇa says that "You go and preach. Take the credit." Yes. It is His plan. Actually everything is done by Kṛṣṇa. He gives the credit to His devotee, that's all. You know the history of the Detroit temple (laughs)?
Prabhupāda: They should be trained up. Therefore Vedic civilization is training. Some section of the people, they should be very intellectuals, brain, just like to maintain this body we require first of all the brain. If the brain is not order, then other parts, they may be there, but they are also useless. So similarly, in the society, some intellectuals should be maintained. They are called brāhmaṇas, and some of the brāhmaṇas, they are sannyāsīs. They are simply meant for giving good instruction. They should personally become very good and intellectual, and they should give instruction to other people what is the value of life, how to live. This is one section. They should be free from the anxiety of maintaining themselves. The society should treat them as children and give them all necessities, bare necessities, not they are meant for living very luxuriously. No. Simple living. Then the next class, kṣatriyas, the politicians, administrators, they are also required to give protection to the people from injury. Kṣatriya, kṣat means injury, and trāyate, "one who saves people from injury." It is kṣatriya's duty. So kṣatriya should protect all the living entities, including the animals. They are also subjects. So the first, intellectual brāhmaṇas, then kṣatriya. Then vaiśyas, their business is to produce food. Food production you can do by agriculture, kṛṣi, and by giving protection to the cows. If you get sufficient food grains, like rice, wheat, pulses, and sufficient milk—from milk you get yogurt, butter, ghee—then your all food problem is solved. You must eat. You must eat, you must live properly. So this first, second, third, the intellectual class, the administrative class, and the productive class, these three classes must be there in the society.
Rāmeśvara: Pennsylvania.
Prabhupāda: Pennsylvania. So we get enough milk, enough food grains, enough fruits. So there is no economic problem. Our purpose is to save time from unnecessary necessities of life, from unnecessary necessities of life, to save time and utilize the time for developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And so far the body is concerned, as much as it is required take and maintain the body. That's all.
Interviewer: Your devotees' health is looked after, then.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Interviewer: By who?
Prabhupāda: They are instructed in that way, plain living, high thinking.
Interviewer: Do you have arrangements with hospitals in case somebody gets sick, and do you watch diet carefully and...?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Why not? Why not? Take care of the body. But we keep our habits in such a way that we don't fall sick very often.
Bhagavān: Cows.
Prabhupāda: Cows, so many things. Free from all anxieties, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Life is meant for simply chanting. This should be the motto. But because we have got this body, we have to maintain it. That much. Otherwise, we have no ambition to become a very big man in this material world, enjoy it. This is all false, useless. He'll become a big man, and one day death comes and kicks him out. So these are all false attempts. It has no meaning. The meaningful life is, so long we live, become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious. And tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). That is wanted. Give facility to the people. Here is very nice arrangement. Now make plan how to utilize. You have got enough land. You can utilize for supplying the necessities of life.
Prabhupāda: Every one of us, we are attached to the body, and on account of being attached to the body the material activities are going on. These motorcars are running, karmīs are going here and there, what is the purpose? To maintain the road? Divasa śarīra-sāje. Miche nida-baśe gelo re rāti divasa śarīra-sāje. The body is given rest at night to revive, and daytime the activities for the matter of maintaining the body. But despite my all endeavor to maintain this body, it will not stay. It will give up my company and I'll have to accept another. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So Bali Mahārāja says "What is the use of such endeavor?" Therefore big, big saintly persons, they do not care for the body. Lie down anywhere. But they are very serious about spiritual advancement. And people in general, they are interested in maintaining the body. It is not that we should be neglectful to the body. That example is also there. Just like we require fruits and flowers. So if we neglect the tree, there will be no fruits and flower. If we cut the tree, it will dry up and there will be no fruits and flowers. The fruits and flowers, this human body, the fruits and flowers mean self-realization. Bali Mahārāja analyzes the family. He says family means rogues and thieves. Whatever you want, they'll take away. The pickpocket takes from your pocket and he becomes a criminal, and when the wife takes thousand dollars from your pocket, you do not consider her to be criminal. You laugh, "Oh, you have taken the money?" "Yes, I've taken." The business is a pickpocket. But in one case we say "criminal," and one case we say "friend." The business is the same. Svajanākhya-dasyu. Actually thieves and rogues, but we have named them "relatives."
Pradyumna: So we analyze the material body is temporary, it's no good anyways, then if, even if someone says, "Well, it may be temporary, but in this life we can get something out of it," then we analyze that other people are taking that. The wife is taking that, the children are taking that.
Prabhupāda: No, we should first of all fix up what is our business. People have taken this, that to maintain the body, to maintain the family, to earn money and protect it, these have become their business. They do not know anything else. The whole world is going on on this platform. Nationwise, communitywise, and everything. Other countries have developed, now the Shah is trying to develop equally. But what is the aim of development? The same—motorcar and accident. That they do not know. "No. They have got motorcar. I must have motorcar." But what is the aim? Same aim. Meet accident and die. They do not know what is the aim of life. Na te viduḥ. They do not know it. Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They are thinking that by adjusting this material way of life they'll be happy, that's all. This is ignorance. The whole civilization is wrong because they do not know what is the aim of life. That is the fault. If they know the aim of life, then it is all right. You live comfortably. There is no... Who asks you that you live discomfortably? You live comfortably. But you must know the aim of life. That they do not know. Ask anybody what is the aim, why you are working so hard, why you are maintaining family, why you are maintaining body, what is the aim of your life? That they do not know. (break) ...control. These things are growing on account of water. If there is no water how they will grow? So it is not in the hands of the scientists. It is in the hands of God. (end)
Prabhupāda: They do not know what is back to home, back to Godhead. Home is here in India, and again back to Godhead? And somebody say, "Here is America. It is my home." And when you say that he'll be kicked out after some years, then home finished. They are satisfied, that home finished, that's all. In such ignorance they are living. And for this home they are busy. Gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2). Gṛhamedhī, attached to this home from which he'll be kicked out. Kṛṣṇa says, "I'll take it out, everything." Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). "I come before you as death and take everything, whatever you have got." That's a fact. Everyone is accumulating, but at the time of death he'll be forced to give it up. He'll be forced to give up the body which he is maintaining so nicely. That he is experiencing. Still, apaśyatām ātma-tattvam (SB 2.1.2). Because he does not know what is self-interest he remains ignorant and dies. This is going on. And leaders-andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Blind leaders, they are encouraging, "Yes, kick yourself. You live here as nationalist. This is your interest. And fight between one nation to one nation, one man to one man." And they have taken this is value. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2).
Prabhupāda: Your question is?
Indian (1): Yes, varṇāśrama, I wanted to, Swamiji...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Varṇāśramācāra-vatā. The varṇa and āśrama I've already explained. Just like for maintenance of the whole body there are different parts: the brain, the arm, the belly, and the leg. Similarly, varṇāśrama means the head—brāhmaṇa; the arms—kṣatriya; the belly—vaiśya; and the leg—śūdra. So by nature these divisions are there. Varṇa, four varṇas and four āśramas. Four varṇas means social divisions, and four āśrama, spiritual division. So apart from spiritual division, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa, the social division must be observed. The brain must be there. Brāhmaṇa. Everything must be there. Not only the brain. The arms also required—military department or kṣatriya department. Yuddhe cāpy apalayanam(?). The kṣatriyas are so brave, they don't go away from fighting field, battlefield. Just like Arjuna was trying to become nonviolent. Immediately Kṛṣṇa chastised him, kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam anārya-juṣṭam akīrti-karam. So everything is required. It is not that everyone should become brāhmaṇa. Neither it is possible that everyone should be able to become brāhmaṇa. It is not so easy thing. But a class of brāhmaṇa must be maintained.
Akṣayānanda: This center particularly has just always been like that.
Haṁsadūta: All the anxiety is how to get some fruit to maintain their body nicely. Very few devotees can actually accept engagement and maintain good health and a good consciousness because the change for Western people for India is so extraordinary that it disturbs their mind, and consequently their body is disturbed and then all they think about is how to maintain their body.
Akṣayānanda: They're used to eating large quantities of food. Here it cannot be done.
Haṁsadūta: And if I ask them... They're used to eating huge amounts of very rich foods.
Prabhupāda: Where?
Haṁsadūta: In the Western temples. They get so many nice foodstuffs which are not available here and when they become sick then they...
Prabhupāda: What rich food?
Haṁsadūta: Oh, like sour cream and butter and so many things. All kinds of fruits and vegetables.
Akṣayānanda: In the West the devotees must eat about four times as much as the ones in India who are not sick. The ones in India...
Prabhupāda: I see that here they eat more.
Prabhupāda: But if you have no prescribed duties, then you are animal. Just like monkey. What is his duty? He is jumping simply and creating havoc. Monkey is very busy. Wherever he'll sit down, he'll "Gat, gat, gat, gat," like this. That's all. Very busy. But what is the meaning of his business? Simply creating disturbance Therefore it is said, niyataṁ kuru karma tvam: "Act on your prescribed duties." Don't act like a monkey. That is better. What is that?
Devotee (3): "For action is better than inaction. A man cannot even maintain his physical body without work."
Prabhupāda: Then? Purport?
Devotee (3): Purport. "There are many pseudo-meditators who misrepresent themselves as belonging to high parentage, and great professional men who falsely pose that they have sacrificed everything for the sake of advancement in spiritual life. Lord Kṛṣṇa did not want Arjuna to become a pretender, but that he perform his prescribed duties as set for kṣatriyas. Arjuna was a householder and a military general, and therefore it was better for him to remain as such and perform his religious duties as prescribed for the householder kṣatriya. Such activities gradually cleanse the heart..."
Prabhupāda: You are following?
Devotee (3): "...and free him from material contamination. So-called renunciation for the purpose of maintenance is never approved by the Lord, nor by any religious scripture. After all, one has to maintain one's body and soul together by some work. Work should not be given up capriciously, without purification of materialistic propensities. Anyone who is in the material world is certainly possessed of the impure propensity for lording it over material nature, or, in other words, for sense gratification. Such polluted propensities have to be cleared. Without doing so, through prescribed duties, one should never attempt to become a so-called transcendentalist, renouncing work and living at the cost of others."
Prabhupāda: So Bhagavad-gītā is giving you gradual process to the highest point and highest point is to surrender. That is the most confidential part of knowledge. Sarva-guhyatamam. Guhyād guhyataram. Find out this verse, eighteenth chapter. He has given the instruction of karma, yoga, jñāna, everything, but the most confidential instruction is this.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Hari-śauri: I should make it, or Pālikā or...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, Pālikā. (break) ...business, that requires so many other things. But if you take to agriculture you can do it immediately. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. That... We are going to do that. Kṛṣi... This is beginning, family life, maintenance, body and soul together. This is the beginning. Business is there when there is excess. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). First of all you take care of the cows and engage yourself in agricultural products. Then when there is excess production, you trade, get some money for other purposes. But you... Agriculture means you work for producing food. That is wanted. Why immediately go to trade? Trade is required when there is excess product. Everything is there. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. And the kṛṣi you can produce independently. You simply work. You have got your hands and legs. You till the ground and throw some seed, and it will come. One kilo seeds, you'll get one hundred mounds. Then, when the product is excess, you trade. Everything is there. If you produce food grain, you'll eat nicely and you'll be strong. You'll be able to work more. Our point is take Kṛṣṇa's instruction. Everything will be perfect. Not that Kṛṣṇa is advising immediately sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). For that stage you are not prepared. That I know. But in your present stage what you'll do, that is perfect.
Rāmeśvara: ...mukta-saṅgaḥ samācara: "Work done as a sacrifice for Viṣṇu has to be performed. Otherwise, work binds one to this material world. Therefore, O son of Kunti, perform your prescribed duties for His satisfaction, and in that way you will always remain unattached and free from bondage." Should I read the purport? Purport. "Since one has to work even for the simple maintenance of the body, the prescribed duties for a particular social position and quality are so made that the purpose can be fulfilled. Yajña means Lord Viṣṇu or sacrificial performances. All sacrificial performances also are meant for the satisfaction of Lord Viṣṇu. The Vedas enjoin: yajño vai viṣṇuḥ. In other words, the same purpose is served whether one performs prescribed yajñas or directly serves Lord Viṣṇu. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is therefore performance of yajña as it is prescribed in this verse. The varṇāśrama institution also aims at this for satisfying Lord Viṣṇu. Varnāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān viṣṇur ārādhyate (CC Madhya 8.58) (Viṣṇu Purāṇa 3.8.8.). Therefore one has to work for the satisfaction of Viṣṇu. Any other work done in this material world will be a cause of bondage, for both good and evil work have their reactions, and any reaction binds the performer. Therefore one has to work in Kṛṣṇa consciousness to satisfy Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu, and while performing such activities one is in a liberated stage. This is the great art of doing work, and in the beginning this process requires very expert guidance. One should therefore act very diligently under the expert guidance of a devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa, or under the direct instruction of Lord Kṛṣṇa Himself, under whom Arjuna had the opportunity to work. Nothing should be performed for sense gratification, but everything should be done for the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. This practice will not only save one from the reaction of work but will also gradually elevate one to transcendental loving service of the Lord, which alone can raise one to the kingdom of God." (break)
Prabhupāda: The Bhagavad Gītā, there are many, but why ours is selling so many? Because we have named "As It Is". Is that the reason?
Rāmeśvara: The main reason is because our men are pushing.
Prabhupāda: That is the reason.
Prabhupāda: No, we say, "You are embarrassed. You come to us. Live with us. You get your food, and whatever service you can do, that's all right. Come here." That's all. We'll send in one of our farms or in temple. Let him be trained up. And if he is actually serious, then have engagement. There is no difficulty. "And if you want that 'I shall work in this way,' that is not possible. You have to work in our way." Then there is unlimited opportunity.
Hari-śauri: You want that verse?
Prabhupāda: Niyata.
Hari-śauri:
- niyataṁ kuru karma tvaṁ
- karma jyāyo hy akarmaṇaḥ
- śarīra-yātrāpi ca te
- na prasiddhyed akarmaṇaḥ
"Perform your prescribed duty, for action is better than inaction. A man cannot even maintain his physical body without work."
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa never said that "You sit down, lazy." You must work. And that is intelligence, how to engage a person in some work. That requires governing body. That is intelligence. They should be ready to work, and your intelligence will engage them. And there is sufficient. Why you are constructing so many centers? There is enough work to do. Just like here. All people are coming, and each one can be preached, each one can be convinced of the philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Udaraṁ bharatā. Dakṣyaṁ udaraṁ bhāratā. Bas, Kali-yuga. Somehow or other, if you can fill up your bellies, then you are very expert. That is going on. If you can maintain your family nicely, then you are dakṣya. Dakṣyaṁ udaraṁ bhāratā. These symptoms are there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Because the Kali-yuga, it is so condemned that it will be difficult to maintain one's body and soul together, that udaraṁ bharita is very expert. He's maintaining. (laughs) Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā (SB 1.1.10). All unfortunate, they have no certainty. In Western countries they have voluntarily given up regulative life, the hippies. No certainty where he shall eat, where he shall lie down. Voluntarily. Coming of very nice family. In Europe, America.... Especially in America there is no question of becoming poor. Everyone has got sufficient means. But still, voluntarily they have accepted this poverty. Voluntarily. A father is rich man. Grandfather is rich man. And besides that, the government maintains. If you have no engagement, the government will give you at least $25 per week. Is it not?
Satsvarūpa: More than that.
Prabhupāda: More than that. You were in the welfare department. What is the minimum?
Satsvarūpa: It keeps going up. I think it's more like forty, fifty dollars for one person.
Prabhupāda: Tīrthī-kurvanti tīrthāni. Svāntaḥ-sthena gadābhṛtā. One who keeps Kṛṣṇa always within the heart, wherever he goes, that is tīrtha. Everywhere Kṛṣṇa is there, but one who remembers, he is the yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntar-ātmanā (BG 6.47). It is very simple. People will not be... Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī mām. The human life is a boon... One can do this very easily. Māyā is so strong. Very easy thing. Even a child can do. Dehāntara vasthite siddhi.(?) Maintaining this body. All right. What is their business? How to maintain the... Huh? What is their aim in life? How to live comfortably. That's all. They do not know anything. So what is the Rādhā-Dāmodara arrangement?
Guru dāsa: There is no trouble there. I wanted to know if the Rādhā-Dāmodara file is in your almirah?
Prabhupāda: Which one?
Guru dāsa: The Vṛndāvana almirah? Akṣayānanda Swami thinks that it's in that almirah, the file?
Prabhupāda: What is the need of that?
Guru dāsa: Not needed, but...
Prabhupāda: All right. So I have arranged with the bank to pay.
Prabhupāda: We take it seriously because Kṛṣṇa says. Kṛṣṇa is our authority. He says, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. Go-rakṣya: "You must give protection to the cows." This is authority.
Dr. Sharma: And the proper facility appears in the rights and democratic (indistinct). But we have a right to live on this planet. Why should we (indistinct) the right of another man?
Prabhupāda: They are... They are... They are described in the Bhāgavata, pāpinaḥ. Those who are killing other animals for maintaining his own body, they are very, very sinful. Very, very sinful. Therefore untouchable. According to Vedic civilization, the animal-killers, mlecchas, they are untouchable. They are so sinful.
Dr. Sharma: They talk about killing of animals for wants of survival. Darwin's case has been brought in, put in, survival, struggle for existence. I mean to have a talk with Dr. Svarūpa. Even the key of the evolution theory by Darwin, he is not feeling itself. It has lots of...
Prabhupāda: He has described in his book, Darwinism. What? What you have described?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is knowledges based on some simple speculation.
Prabhupāda: Speculation. It is not sound knowledge.
Prabhupāda: You haven't got to think over, "What shall I do now?" Never forget. So our first business is preaching. You should always remember. This is the education. These rascals, they have no father-mother-orphans. They may think as well-educated how to earn money. We have no... We are rich man's son. Economic problem is already solved. That is already taken. Tal labhyate yad anyataḥ sukham. We don't care for all this so-called improvement. That is already settled up. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovidaḥ. Just see how to become a man of character like Nārada, Vyāsa. That is our goal. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovidaḥ. Not for any other. "And what about your material problems?" That is already taken. Tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukhaṁ kālena sarvatra gabhīra-raṁhasā. This is kṛṣṇa-bhakta. Don't care for maintaining body. "What Kṛṣṇa will give, I take. If He does not give, don't mind." So discussing all this twenty-four hours and death takes place. Death, if takes place, then where is the wrong? Where is the lamentation? There is nothing... You are not permanent. You have to die. But if you die discussing all these things, that is your glorious death. Death is sure. You cannot avoid it, today or tomorrow or hundred years after. But die a glorious death. Yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ. Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14). That is wanted. It is not... So I have called you for that purpose. So if death is to take place, let me die in your association and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. There is no harm. That is glorious. Now it is very important point, Nārada's qualification.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kāmasya nendriya-prītir lābho jīveta... (SB 1.2.10).
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kāmasya, sense gratification, required, but not for sense gratification's sake. It requires only for living comfortably. You try to make the economic development, that is all right. But they have taken simply for sense gratification. "I have got one car, and there must be another three cars for my children and wife." This is going on, kāma, increasing. Economic development... You require some occupational duty for earning your livelihood... That is allowed. But why more and more, more, more, more? For that, they are making scientific research how to satisfy senses. So kāmasya na indriya-prītiḥ. You require some sense gratification not for the senses, but because you have got a bad bargain, this body, just to maintain it, not more than. That is varṇāśrama-dharma. So there are so many problems we have created. They do not understand. And this civilization are simply gratifying senses, so dangerous. And dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). And they create a position by very, very hard labor, and the body is changed. Then śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). What benefit you get? This life, you make a skyscraper building, three dozen cars, and next life, you become a dog. Then what is your profit? What do you gain? They do not gain anything. So that change of body is in nature's hand. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). That is not in your hand. When the body will change, you cannot say, "No, no, I'll not change," because that is not under your dictation. So is not simply waste of time?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Bhāgavata says so clearly, śrama eva hi kevalam.
Prabhupāda: These rascals, they do not understand. This is the position.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Next verse?
Prabhupāda: Hm.
| Page Title: | Maintaining the body (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 08 of Mar, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=59, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 59 |