Prabhupāda: Just like Lord Rāmacandra did. Rāmacandra killed Rāvaṇa but He never occupied the kingdom. His brother Vibhīṣaṇa proved to be faithful. He was enthroned. From the same family. And that was the system. Even a king was wrong, he would be dethroned but from his family, either his son or brother, or somebody would occupy there. Not that "Because I have conquered you, therefore I shall sit down." No. There are many instances. And therefore India was ruling all over the world. The emperor was in India, and the kings of different states, their family was. So there was no rebellion. And in every state a king was trained in the same process, guided by committee of learned brāhmaṇa and sages. How perfect this monarchy is. Monarchy... That Lord Collier studied that the Indian people like monarchy. Even these states, the so-called states... Now the Congress government has killed them; otherwise the Britishers were maintaining, necessary, and they were developed. Now see. The Indore was far better before. You can see from the buildings, from the whole city. It was very prosperous city. Still it is going on. So every state, the native prince, the Britishers maintained so many native prince. And because they maintained them, they were friends to the Britishers. They knew the policy, if you create zamindar, landlord. They created this aristocratic class to support them. So when Gandhi and other leaders started this movement all the princes and zamindars, they were in favor of British. Therefore it took so much time to transfer. And as a retaliation, the common people have bereft them of their kingdom. "No more kingdom because you always supported Britishers." It is a great politics. Therfore they have taken... The zamindars, immediately after this attainment of independence, all the zamindars and kings were bereft of their possessions. You were in Calcutta? Oh, none of you were with me. We saw one house for purchasing. That was a big zamindar's house, Tagore Thakur(?) You saw? Yes. If you have saw... How nicely it was. When they were in opulence in our childhood, oh, it was a house to be seen. There are many houses. Just like in England the lord families. In Ascot, where we stayed, that was also lord family's house. Now Yoko's house, a third-class Japanese girl. She has become the queen of the house. And how third-class, low-grade. It is the sitting room and a naked picture has... How much degraded people have become. How this man is daring to hang that picture in his sitting room so that everyone who comes sees. How much low-graded they are. They want change, but because they have no (indistinct) education they are going to the animal sphere. That is hippie movement. Yes. From animal standard they become civilized. The same story, punar muṣika bhāvaḥ. You know that story? "Again become mouse."
Low grade (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: The story is a mouse came to a saintly person: "Sir, I am in trouble. If you kindly release me?" "What is that trouble?" "A cat, they are after me. I am always at risk of life." "So what do you want?" "You also make me a cat." "All right. You become a cat." Then again he came. "Sir, again the complaint is here." "What is that?" "Dogs are chasing me." "Then what do you want?" "I want to become a dog." "All right. You become a dog." In this way he came up to the tiger by the benediction of the... And when he became a tiger, he was... (snarling sound-laughter) Just like our Brahmānanda Prabhu. "All right. Again become mouse." You see? So these civilization is like that. They became tiger, and they are so much badly trained up that they have to become again a mouse. That is the way. That is the way of nature. If you don't improve yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you again become stool worms. The human form of life is an opportunity to come out of the cycle of birth and death, but if one does not take—these are the statements in Padma Purāṇa—then he loses the chance. They do not know what is life, how life is rotating, talking nonsense, "I am God. Why Kṛṣṇa should be God? This is written by man." How much low-graded people have become. They are completely under the laws of nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14), stringent laws of nature, and still, they are claiming, "I am God. I am this. I am that. I am free. I am..." And they do not mind, even they are degraded to the position of the worm of stool. But there is possibility. What is this worm of stool? It is also living entity. It is not a different thing. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). One who knows, he knows that the worm of stool and Brahmā are the same living entity. Simply under different reaction of karma one has become Brahmā and another has become the stool worm. Now we begin.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Therefore, our Society is association. If we keep good association, then we don't touch the darkness. What is that association? There is a song, sat-saṅga cari goinu asate vilāsa teka name lagi loma karma bandha phāṅsa.(?) Sat-saṅga. Sat-saṅga means association with the devotees. That is called sat-saṅga. So the, one poet, Vaiṣṇava poet, is regretting that "I did not keep association with the devotees, and I wanted to enjoy life with the nondevotees. Therefore I'm being entangled in the fruitive activities." Karma bandha phāṅsa. Entanglement. Here in this material world we act, and the result is there. Again we enjoy the result and act, again another result. We act, another result, another result. Because as soon as you act, there will be some result, good or bad. So, good or bad, by good result we get good birth, good money, good bodily features, good education—these are the effects of good work. And the effects of bad work, low-grade family, abominable, ugly bodily features, no education, no money, poor—these are the two effects of material good and bad work. But those who are trying to be transcendental both to the good and bad work, devotees, they are perfect. Because in this material world either you do good work or bad work, you have to suffer the material condition. Just like you are, suppose you are Englishman, you are well situated. But you can not avoid the influence of the weather.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Our, our, our mantra is sarve sukhino bhavantu.
Dr. Patel: That's right.
Prabhupāda: Sarve sukhina... Everyone be happy. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We want to see everyone to be happy. That's all.
Dr. Patel: I, but, this is naturally me, if I see, of course... Then naturally... The great Jesus Christ, great bhakta of God. (some other men talk in background) But Christians, they have, they are...
Prabhupāda: No, no. These, they may be low grade. They may be inferior, but if we are superior, we must act as superior.
Dr. Patel: That's right.
Prabhupāda: That is our movement.
Bhavānanda: I tell them that when they ask.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhavānanda: I say, "Why you are asking me that? You already know."
Prabhupāda: Rather, they are to give information. But this is a plea. Bhagavad-gītā is, was not made in London. (laughter) It was spoken in India. Why they are asking? That means they have become so rascal and fool they do not know what is Bhagavad-gītā, what is Caitanya Mahāprabhu? Their position is so low-graded now?
Guest (1): They do not like to learn it. They do not like to know it.
Prabhupāda: That's it. Is Bhagavad-gītā imported from London? Why do they ask like this? How much degraded they have become.
Prabhupāda: Ah, mad-bhāvam āgatāḥ. Mad-bhāvam, "My nature." "My nature" means spiritual nature. Kṛṣṇa is spirit. Or the another nature. This is material nature. This is another nature. That is kingdom of God, spiritual nature, Vaikuṇṭha planet. Āgatāḥ: "They came." Every information is there, every opportunity is there. Simply they are not educated. Therefore the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for educating these rascals. That's all. They are mad after sense gratification. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ, mad. From the morning, as soon as they rise, "Give me a cup of tea, immediately I have to go to there and there and there." What you will do then? "Yes, I will die. I will die in a motor accident. They are waiting for me." All right, go. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). All kinds of forbidden works they are doing. What? What is the purpose? Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaye. Purpose is only sense gratification. The rascal does not know that "I am doing all these sinful activities for sense gratification, and I will have to accept a very low-grade body." That he does not know. He has already got one low-grade body. He is suffering only. And he will still get another low-grade body, more suffering. That he does not know. But still, he will do everything for sense gratification. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti na sādhu manye: (SB 5.5.4) "Oh, it is not good." Na sādhu manye yata ātmano' yam: "This kind of activities will cover your soul by body." "Well, this body is temporary. Don't bother." Then another body, rascal. This body is temporary, but you get another body, most abominable.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: He must suffer.
Prabhupāda: Does it mean that because he has created this park, therefore contamination will not act upon him? Is it a fact? It must act. So after creating all these things, if you contaminate some infectious modes of material nature, then you have to accept the body of cats and dogs. Then what is your benefit? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-sango 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). Kāraṇam, the reason for high and low grade birth is due to contamination with the modes of material nature. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Paramahaṁsa: Yesterday, we said that, Prahlāda Mahārāja said that he didn't fear Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva, even though he was so ferocious, but he feared the material nature.
Prabhupāda: That is contamination. If I be contaminated with the material nature, then I'll have to accept a body given by material nature.
Prabhupāda: Yes, in the spiritual life there is no sex life. In the spiritual world there is no sex intercourse. There is no sex life. Although there is man and woman, there is no sex intercourse. By chanting the glories of God there in the spiritual world, they get so much great pleasure that is far beyond this pleasure of sex life. If you have something best then you forget low grade pleasure. So this sex pleasure is lower grade pleasure. It is not pleasure, it is illusion, but in material world this is the greatest pleasure. Therefore everyone they are coming back to this sex pleasure, everyone. Even so-called religionists and swamis, they are coming down to the sex pleasure. Because in this material world that is the only highest pleasure. So, so long one will be attracted by the sex pleasure it is still in the material world. And when one will be on the platform to spite (spit) on sex pleasure, then his spiritual life begins. That is stated by Yāmunācārya. (Sanskrit). Yāmunācārya, a great saintly person, he was formerly big king, so he said, "Since I have become Kṛṣṇa conscious and enjoying, since that time, as soon as I remember even sex life, I spite (spit) on it and my mouth becomes turned." (laughter) This is the test. Not that you become very advanced spiritualist and at the same time advance in sex life. That is not.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: A simple formula. Anyone can think of Kṛṣṇa always. Anyone can offer obeisances. Bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. Anyone can serve Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is open to everyone. So four principle: man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru. Even a child can do that. And by doing these four things he becomes perfect. And the other verse,
- māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya
- ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ
- striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās
- te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim
- (BG 9.32)
It is open for everyone. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. Even born in low-grade family, it doesn't matter. If he accepts these four principles, te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatiḥ, they also become transferred to the supreme goal. And Kṛṣṇa is not meant for any particular type of men or nation or country. No.
Governor: It is an harmonious coordination.
Prabhupāda: Yes, harmonious coordination. But the śūdras were hated like anything, and they became Mohammedans. And there was no reacceptance. Formerly, from Caitanya literature we understand, that if the Musselman will take little water from the badna (?) and sprinkle like this, then you become Mohammedan. In this way all these Indians, they became Mohammedan. And the result is now the Pakistan, and you go on fighting forever. Why these innocent persons who were by sprinkling water became Mohammedan, why they do not claim? Kṛṣṇa and the śāstra, it does not say that if one has fallen, you cannot reclaim him. No, why not reclaim him? Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa... (BG 9.32). This is by birth. And of course, in our country everything was taken by birth. Now it is going on. But even by birth one is low-grade...
Governor: No, birth also was built up by a tradition. They were brought up in that atmosphere.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It doesn't matter. But if he wants to be elevated, he should be given chance. That is the verdict of all śāstras. Now we are feeling, India, this difficulty. Because they are Europeans, Americans, the so-called big societies, they are not agreeable to accept them. You see? Although śāstra does not say so. Śāstra says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. "If one takes shelter of Me, even he is born in pāpa-yoni"... Striyaḥ vaiśyās tathā..., te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim, "they can also be elevated to the highest exalted position." And in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is, many places it is said that a low-born person can be elevated. Caṇḍalo 'pi dvija śreṣṭho hari-bhakti-parāyaṇaḥ.
Lt. Mozee: Again I say I mean no disrespect, but in India, where the religious customs have been followed for centuries upon centuries, we are seeing a, not a return, but we are seeing a drawing away. We are seeing a drawing away from the spiritual world and the spiritual life in today's society.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is due to bad leadership. Otherwise, Indian mass of people, they are fully conscious of God and they try to follow the laws of God, the mass of people. Here even the big, big professor, they do not believe in God, they do not believe in next life. But India, even the poorest man, he knows that "There is God. There is next life. If I commit sinful life I will suffer. If I live piously, then I shall enjoy." Even the low-grade society, social man, he believes it. Still if there is some disagreement, the village people go to the temple for settlement, and the opposite parties will hesitate to speak lies before the temple, still. So in that respect India is still 80 percent religious, 80 percent religious. That is the special privilege of taking birth in India. That is a fact.
- bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra,
- janma sārthaka kari kara para-upakāra
- (CC Adi 9.41)
Anyone who has taken birth in India, his business is to make his life perfect and distribute the knowledge all over the world.
Prabhupāda: Thousands of hippies are lying down there. In London I have seen in St. James Park, early, because I go for morning walk, that the police is kicking, "Ho! get up! Get up!" And government has engaged men: "Why you are living like this? Come here. If you have no home, we are giving home." They don't care. Therefore the śāstra says that simply try to make man Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is required. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido (SB 1.5.18). In other life, either high-grade life, low-grade life, there was no chance of becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious. But the human life there is chance. Kṛṣṇa conscious means, when we speak Kṛṣṇa, God. So that is... There is the chance. So the śāstra says, instead of endeavoring for other things, better you try to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That will solve all the problems.
Jayatīrtha: The hippies see that their fathers have not become happy by their riches.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they have got some reason, certainly. So they refuse to adopt the way of life of their father or grandfather. So they must have some reason. But on the total we can see that these three classes of men—one in great prosperity, one via-media, and one in want... These three classes of men there are, everywhere, all over the world.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Hṛdayānanda: Is that cheating propensity?
Prabhupāda: Not cheating. Foolishness. It may not be cheating, but he does not know. Arcāyām eva haraye pūjāṁ yat śraddhayehate... What is that? Na tad-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu...
Hṛdayānanda: Bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ. The beginning is arcā, arcana. And because he was given the chance of arcana, if he thinks that "I become paramahaṁsa," then he's a foolish. It will take time. The process is there. Therefore preaching is madhyama-adhikārī. One should take to preaching work gradually. When the preaching... Preachers, they have got discrimination, "Here is abhakta; here is bhakta." But in the paramahaṁsa stage, uttama-adhikārī, he sees "Everyone is devotee. I am not devotee." That is uttama-adhikārī. Just like Kavirāja Gosvāmī said, purīṣera kīṭa haite muñi se laghiṣṭha (CC Adi 5.205). Sanātana Gosvāmī said that "I am born in low-grade family. My work is low grade." (break) ...issued that complaint? "I am the counterpart."
Hari-śauri: Most of these famous guys, they are all really the lowest grade people as well. Very low grade.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise, this John Lennon, how he dares to photograph naked with his lover? How lowest class man he is, that he has no shame even. And he's also big man. Press reporters go to take his opinion on certain subject matters. They do not know where I am going to take opinion. What is the value of this man? But people are after money. Why? "I have got money." That's all.
Devotee: They hold great sway with the general public as well.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rakṣaṇa: Kṛṣṇa told Arjuna that that was to know that he was factually not his body.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is advancement of knowledge. Otherwise, what is the difference between this bird and the human being? He's also dancing very jolly, but he has no knowledge that he's not this body. So if the human being also remains falsely jolly without any knowledge of his existence, then what is the difference between these birds, dogs and human beings? Why we say low grade, animals? He's living in his own way. He has got all the facilities of eating, sleeping, sex and defense. Just you have all the same things. Where is the difference between you and him? Why you say advanced in knowledge?
Rakṣaṇa: Nowadays they say that they're advanced in knowledge even without any sophistication at all, while Arjuna, when he was giving his arguments to Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: No, don't bring Arjuna now. Just speak on commonsense platform. As soon as we bring Arjuna, they think it is sectarian. We are talking on human common sense. What is advancement of knowledge?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Anyway, his question is, "Swami Vivekananda has given a positive suggestion that one of the best ways for harijanas to command respect among all sections of people is to learn Sanskrit, the study of which is being neglected even by brāhmaṇas today. What incentives can be given to harijanas to learn Sanskrit, the repository of Indian culture and religion?"
Prabhupāda: That is another misgiving. They will never be able to learn Sanskrit, and neither it is possible that by learning Sanskrit they will be elevated. There are many Sanskrit scholars. So how they are elevated? They are rotting. It is not a good suggestion, this. If the harijana actually becomes harijana, then it will benefit. That training we can give. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that we can make a harijana, a so-called, I mean to say, camaras, bhangis... Now they understand harijana means he must be a camara or bhangi. But that is not the actual... harijana means devotee, "The man of Hari." So in spite of their illiteracy in Sanskrit language, we can make him harijana, actually. So why do you take the trouble of learning Sanskrit? Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Pāpa-yoni means low-grade birth. So anyone. That includes the camaras, bhangis, they can be purified if they take to the shelter of Kṛṣṇa. Because Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. The best thing is to induce them to come to Kṛṣṇa. Then they will be purified. And the simple method is recommended by Kṛṣṇa Himself and Caitanya Mahāprabhu, His incarnation: this kīrtana. Engage them in saṅkīrtana movement which is being pushed by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and they will be purified. They don't require to learn Sanskrit even. As he, it is. Let them chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and they will be purified. And if you want to teach them Sanskrit, it will take three thousand years. (laughter) That is impossible.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If he's going to become a dog next life and if he does not take precaution, then he is not envying himself? In this life you are prime minister, and next life, you are preparing to become a dog, so what is the use of becoming prime minister? You could not save yourself. Nature's law will go on. You may become prime minister or any minister, but the law will act. If you have infected some disease, so the disease will develop. It doesn't matter whether you are prime minister or this minister. So these rascals say they do not know it. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. Find out this verse. This low-grade birth, high-grade birth, why it is happening? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu.
Prabhupāda: Just like if you give milk, very nourishing food, to a human being, he'll get strength, but if you give to a snake, it will increase poison. So that is the proof that here is a snake. So payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. If you give milk to a human child he'll grow healthy, and the same milk you give to a serpent child, it will grow poison. One day he'll: "Ohnn!" He'll ready to bite you. You have given milk, it has increased poison, and it will show his fangs, hood. That is asura. So therefore they become snakes, scorpion, so low-grade life. Snake life is so degraded that at once you see a snake, immediately every one of us will be ready to kill it. Everyone, without any mercy. Nobody will say, "No, no, let this go." So he is put into that life that he cannot come in the light. As soon as he comes in the vision of somebody, everyone is ready to kill. And nobody is sorry. Nobody is sorry. Prahlāda Mahārāja said that. Modeta sādhur api vṛścika-sarpa-hatyā (SB 7.9.14). Even one is saintly person, he'll be satisfied if a snake is killed. Saintly person doesn't want that anyone should be killed, but if a snake is killed, he's happy: "Oh, you have done right." Modeta sādhur api vṛścika-sarpa-hatyā. So Prahlāda Mahārāja said that "My father is killed; nobody is unhappy. (laughter) Nobody is unhappy. But he was just like a snake and scorpion. Now You be satisfied. There is no cause of becoming angry. Everyone is satisfied." That was Prahlāda Mahārāja's prayer.
Bill Sauer: You believe you can transmit that to other planets?
Prabhupāda: Yes. We have to transfer, because we are giving up this body. So you must accept another body. So either in this planet or in other planets or as human being or less than human being... There are 8,400,000 types of body. You have to accept one of them according to your karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). How the next body is developed, that is depending on our work. If we work like demigod, then we go and get the body of demigod. And if we work like dog, then we get the body of a dog. Nature's. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22). According to activity and association of the modes of material nature, we get, up and down, different varieties of body. Some of them are low grade, some of them are high grade. That depends on our association with the modes of nature. Nature's work is going on. Just like if we contaminate some particular germs of disease, that disease will develop and we have to suffer. Similarly, by our contamination or association with the guṇa, qualities of nature... There are three qualities, goodness, passion and ignorance. So we have to know how to associate. If we associate with the goodness, then we are elevated to the higher planetary system, deva. And if we associate with passion, then in the middle, just like human being. And if we associate with ignorance, then go down like animal, trees, plants, like that.
Prabhupāda: So you don't take simply Jagannātha temple. There are many other temples, they allow. It is a particular management body, they do not allow. But that is not the sanction of the śāstra. That is not the sanction. Suppose in your private house you make some private law. That is your business. But actually temple is open for everyone. That is stated. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Even one is born of low-grade family, he can accept. There is no injunction. That is śāstra. But there are rascals who do not follow. They have their own imagination. That is another thing. Kṛṣṇa never said that "Only the brāhmaṇas or Indians or Hindus can take shelter of Me." Kṛṣṇa never said. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ, whatever he may be. There is no restriction. Just like Ganges water, anyone can take bath. It is not that only a particular person or particular community can take bath. Anyone can take, and he becomes purified. There is an example, na hi harate jyotsnā candraś caṇḍāla veśmani.(?) When there is moonlight, there is no discrimination that here is a bhaṅgi's house, caṇḍāla's house, there should be no moonshine. The moonshine is open in the palace of the king or in the house of a caṇḍāla, na hi harate jyotsnā candraś caṇḍāla veśmani. So Kṛṣṇa's mercy is for everyone. It is not restricted to a certain community or class of people, no. Anyone can take advantage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And that is, practically they are doing. Therefore in India, so they say that I am killing Hindu dharma, the Māyāvādīs, that Bhaktivedanta Swami hindu-dharma ka naṣṭa.
Indian man (6): This is kind of discrimination though.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa says māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Never mind if he's born in low-grade family, but he's eligible to go back to home, back to Godhead. Te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. Do you mean to say unless one becomes a first-class brāhmaṇa he can go back to home, back to Godhead? No, that is not possible. So, kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ śudhyanti (SB 2.4.18). The purificatory process... Just like these Europeans, Americans, they are being recognized as brāhmaṇas because they are pure devotees. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. He says kṛṣṇa-bhajane nāhi jāti-kulādi-vicāra (CC Antya 4.67). Kṛṣṇa-bhajane, if one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, there is no such discrimination, even if you make that, because as soon as you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, you become the best brāhmaṇa. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). He immediately becomes on the brahmam platform. And brāhmaṇa means one who knows brahma. Brahma jānāti iti brāhmaṇa. So every devotee, if he's purely engaged in devotional service, he's more than brāhmaṇa. And so-called brāhmaṇa, without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is not recognized. Avaiṣṇavo gurur na syād vaiṣṇavaḥ śva-paco guruḥ. If a dog-eater, caṇḍāla, he has become a Vaiṣṇava, he can be guru. But a brāhmaṇa, ṣaṭ-karma-nipuṇo vipro mantra-tantra-viśāradaḥ, avaiṣṇavo gurur na syāt. If he's expert, Vedic chanting and everything, mantra-tantra-viśārada, but if he's not a Vaiṣṇava, he cannot become guru. So according to our Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... That is actually according to Vedic injunction. If you understand Kṛṣṇa, then you become more than a brāhmaṇa. Try to understand Kṛṣṇa, and then your life is successful. And Kṛṣṇa is being distributed by Lord Kṛṣṇa. Not only He's giving Kṛṣṇa, He's giving kṛṣṇa-prema, kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa-caitanya-nāmne gaura-tviṣe namaḥ (CC Madhya 19.53). Caitanya Mahāprabhu is so kind, merciful, He's not only giving Kṛṣṇa, He's giving kṛṣṇa-prema, which is very, very rare.
Prabhupāda: So actually this varṇāśrama system is meant for bringing the man in the lower status of life to the higher status of life. It doesn't matter one is born in a low-grade family. That is also said by Kṛṣṇa: māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Pāpa-yoni, lower grade. Striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrāḥ (BG 9.32). In the human society, woman, the vaiśya and the śūdra, they are considered in the lower status, not very intelligent. Te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. They can also become... So in the Western countries, according to Vedic calculation, they are mlecchas, yavanas, low grade. But Kṛṣṇa says ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ, "He can also be elevated, to that extent as he can go back to home, back to Godhead." So this movement is directly giving the opportunity of Kṛṣṇa's service so that they can become immediately bona fide to the position in the highest grade of life, Vaiṣṇava, so that he can go back to home, back to Godhead.
Hari-śauri: What is that?
Prabhupāda: Low-class woman. So she was living in a cottage, hut, cottage. So out of love he also preferred that "I shall live with her, and I shall drive a car." So that is independence. He preferred. So that discrimination preference is there always. You can prefer a low-grade life out of your discretion. Nobody can check you. And by cultivation of knowledge, you can become a big man. The two tendencies are there. There is no stereotyped idea. Otherwise, he has no independence. Who was speaking of that owl? There is an animal, owl. He doesn't like to remain in the sunlight. So that is also an animal. He is also eating, sleeping, mating, but he doesn't like the sunlight. What can you do? So God has given him all facility to remain as an owl, in darkness. That is God's kindness.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa, in the dictionary it is said, that Hindu God but we are claiming, that Kṛṣṇian, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa conscious. Kṛṣṇa conscious means "Godder than the Hindus." When you say we are not Hindu that we are not restricted with the Hindi community. That is the meaning. Because Kṛṣṇa says, "I am for everyone." So why should we be restricted to the Hindi community. Kṛṣṇa says sarva yoniṣu, "In all forms of life, I am the seed giving father." Why he should be simply Hindu? This point should be stressed. Sarva yoni means eighty four million..., eighty, eighty, eight million four hundred thousands, all forms. Kṛṣṇa is for all of them. We therefore, why Kṛṣṇa should be restricted to the Hindu community? Hindus are included but Kṛṣṇa is not restricted to Hindus. Kṛṣṇa's picture, that Bal Gopal. He's embracing the calves. Kṛṣṇa does not embrace only the gopīs, He's embracing the calves also. That is Kṛṣṇa. He's equal to everyone. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Pāpa-yonayaḥ, so many low-grade forms of life, they're also His.... Devotees are part and parcel. Mamaivāṁśo jī... (BG 15.7). Quote this: Kṛṣṇa is not restricted to the Hindu. We say, "We are not Hindu," means we are not.... We embrace everyone. We are not restricted to the Hindus. The so-called Christians, so-called Mohammedans, they.... We embrace everyone, and actually we are doing that. Why should we simply be compact within the limitation of Hindus. That is not our purpose. Then we would not have come to western countries. We actually spreading universal brotherhood. Kṛṣṇa is the father and everyone our brother. We are claiming, all our fallen brothers to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is our movement. Caitanya Mahāprabhu (said) pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma, this is our movement. Why you should be restricted, to the India, and amongst the Hindus. Our (indistinct) they asked that "Go, go," bhārata bhūmite, you have taken birth in India, that's alright, make your life successful and go abroad, para upakāra. Janma sārthaka kori koro para-upakāra. This is our mission. We have come to you to make you civilized. This is our mission.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So who is going to do that? All these... All rogues and thieves, drunkards and fourth-class character, meat-eaters, they are the government. How you can expect good government for the benefit of the people? This is Kali-yuga. Unfortunately we have on the heads of government all men of the low-grade character. You... Your President?
Satsvarūpa: New President?
Prabhupāda: No, that Kennedy.
Satsvarūpa: Kennedy.
Prabhupāda: He was always associating with naked woman.
Satsvarūpa: Yes, it's been discovered.
Prabhupāda: Just see. And he is the President.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. If they are in a downtrodden condition, it's due to their past activities.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now you can rectify it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right, it can be reversed.
Prabhupāda: It is not that you shall remain... Then, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). If you accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even you are born in low-grade caste or family, you can be elevated. That is to be done. What is done is done. Now we can elevate from this position. That is our capacity.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (reading) "According to the constitutional directive, harijanas should account for twenty percent of the posts in the government service." But first of all they should be qualified. We can use the example that if your father is a high-court justice, does it make you a high-court justice?
Prabhupāda: No.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: First you have to be qualified.
Prabhupāda: This is no plea, that there is checking: because he is born in a low-grade family, there is no educational facilities. "You cannot do it," say that, "for want of culture."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So then they quote Dr. Ambedekhar saying, "We will attain self-elevation only if we learn self-help, regain self-respect, and gain self-knowledge." But what is the self, they don't know.
Prabhupāda: That we can teach.
Ram Jethmalani: (laughing) You don't blame me.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, it is not blaming, it is fact. It is the real understanding. Without evidence, without proof, how law can be established? That's a good method. So he is speaking like lawyer, that "You want evidence, you want witness: see here." Tāra sākṣī jagāi mādhāi. So that is five hundred years ago. Now in our Hare Kṛṣṇa movement you see practically. Drunkards, illicit sex-hunters, and so on, so on, they have become saintly persons. This is the effect of it. So... And Kṛṣṇa also says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). It doesn't matter. Pāpa-yoni. According to our Vedic system, low-class, those who are born in low-grade family, they are called pāpa-yoni. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, lower than that—śūdrādhaḥ. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ (SB 2.4.18). They are called pāpa-yoni, untouchables. Of course, nowadays these things cannot go on. But these are there. So Kṛṣṇa says, ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. Anyone born in anywhere, te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. Mām eva vyapāśritya. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice, everyone can be elevated. So what is this harijana? We can do.
Jayapatākā: Next group is there.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says the next group is ready.
Jayapatākā: Can I give the report, Tamāla?
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Yes? Next person? (break) (Bengali) By passing wind if there is somebody benefit, they'll not pass. Such a low-grade man. Therefore they are ruined, those men. There is not a single upright. You cannot expect that they will willfully, willingly...
Jayapatākā: No, we'll get that by hook or by crook.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is only... Sathe sārthaṁ samācaret.(?) They are first-class cheater. We shall cheat them. (laughter) Don't worry. This is only... They have ruined the institution, all third-class, fourth-class men.
Jayapatākā: He knew that it was right. He couldn't deny it. But he has got no power to... No willpower.
Prabhupāda: No power? No, he has power. He'll not do. He has power.
| Page Title: | Low grade (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Serene |
| Created: | 08 of Mar, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=29, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 29 |