Prabhupāda: They have manufactured different types of religions (indistinct). All these Radhaswami, (indistinct), Jains, Sikhs, they have manufactured... (indistinct) And our Vedic regulations (indistinct) Just like such a great personality as Buddha, simply he said that I do not follow the Vedic principles. (indistinct) That Buddhism could not flourish, although Buddhism began from India. (indistinct) He started this Buddha but because he did... Simply he said that I do not accept your Vedas, immediately... Such a great personality (indistinct) So anyone who does not follow the śāstra, the essence of śāstra is (indistinct) So anyone who studies Bhagavad-gītā minutely, (indistinct). These European, American boys, because they're strictly following the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, (indistinct). Only thing is they're following (indistinct) śāstra. (indistinct) ...waste of time, śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Simply wasting time. (indistinct) Prayer has failed all over the world because they are neglecting the (indistinct). Nobody goes to church. Churches, churches are now being sold. In London, have you been in London? There are hundreds and thousands of churches, they're simply (indistinct), nobody goes there. Not only in England, in America also. In America still, they are going on, because there are (indistinct) churches, but in England I will say, it is (indistinct). Very, very nice, you have been to (indistinct)? (indistinct) ...so excellent church, there is one flaw, very big church, well constructed. Now the church authority, desiring that the somebody, he's imagining (indistinct), he's imagining that this is such a nice church so our... Government has sent somebody to take this church, he's thinking Americans may take... No, why Americans will be interested to take the church, as it is... But he's thinking... That means he wants to dismantle the church. But church now will not allow. He's finding out some customer who will take the church (indistinct). So their headquarter land is very valuable. So if the land is vacated, then you may have a little church and other land he can utilize for himself. That is his proposition.
London (Conversations 1973 - 1974)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: By engaging. That is our school. It is a school. If a student does not learn nicely, you cannot say, "Get out." As far as possible. But when it is absolutely impossible to correct him, then you have to ask. And if there is money, equal you have to manage some money, what can be done? But I don't think if we try our best to correct him, this ultimate punishment will be required. Human being, after all human being, and our business is to teach and become ideal ourself. Āpani ācari prabhu jīvere śikhāya. We have to teach by our personal behavior. If you rise early in the morning, if you take your bath, if you sit down regularly and keep them (indistinct), how he can deny? How one can deny? It is not possible. But if I smoke, I ask others not to smoke, that will never be possible. Āpani ācari prabhu jīvere, first of all you have to be. If one is not cleansing, you shall tell me (indistinct) this way. We have to do like that. Not that I (order), "Come on, you do this. Oh, you cannot do, get out." Not that. We show him. After all, our life is sacrificed for preaching and that preaching means one should behave himself, nicely. He cannot say that "You do not do this." Just like one day in London there was some talks with Nanda Kumāra, you. He was accusing you, you were accusing him. I heard from (indistinct). So you should do in such a way that he cannot accuse you. If you ask him to rise early in the morning, take your bath, and if you do not take. Supposing some special case. I was taking early bath. Now I do not take, because due to my health. That is because... Otherwise regularly I was taking. Not even hot water.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: A few weeks ago, there was a supplement in the Times, the London Times. So they were describing about the very relationship between British and India, in the early British period and after the British period. There they talked only about very good points, whereas they never say anything about... All good points.
Prabhupāda: No, that... When they discuss, they must describe the good points only. But some of the British rulers were very, very unkind. And the last was that Jallianwalla Bagh massacre, created by Lord Chelmsford. Then the British rule finished. In 1917, and immediately Gandhi started non-cooperation movement. So after thirty years, the Britishers were obliged to leave.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The Scottish Church College in Calcutta...
Prabhupāda: Yes. I was student there.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, Śrīla Prabhupāda was in Scottish Church?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: No, because he's thinking this is happiness.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the theory of relativity's everywhere.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is a fact.
Brahmānanda: One man's meat is another man's poison.
Prabhupāda: Poison. (pause) Śyāmasundara has not started from London. You can ask him to bring my overcoat and (indistinct).
Brahmānanda: (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause)
Devotee: How does one practice to keep the mind from being restless?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Devotee: How does one practice to keep the mind from being restless?
Prabhupāda: To have good association.
Prabhupāda: Why he avoids?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He was thinking carefully and decided that he cannot defend what he has in his mind.
Prabhupāda: We are not ordinary, the so-called swamis and sādhus. We are going to give to the world something which they forgot. I told this in London airport. Yes. That was published in the papers. They asked me, "Why you have come to London?" And "Because to teach you something which you have forgotten."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Is it before Prabhupāda came here.
Brahmānanda: In London.
Prabhupāda: In London. Here also I told in New York, "To make you intelligent. You are all fools and rascals." Yes, they are fools and rascals because they do not know what he is. He is thinking, "I am this body." So anyone who is thinking, "I am this body," he is an ass. That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13).
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is the basis that life started from matter. They are thinking that this is the body.
Prabhupāda: Therefore we have to make very strong propaganda against this theory. Otherwise if you sleep only and take doctorate title, what is the use? You have to fight against these rascals. Make your soldier's party and start fighting against these rascals. No more toleration. No more silence. What is that sound?
Brahmānanda: Oh, it's a power saw. They are going to cut the wood.
varūpa Dāmodara: London is also like this.
Prabhupāda: Yes, London, yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The smell we are getting now from burning the gas or coal is also one of the causes of cancer. The hydro-carbons.
Prabhupāda: Yes, the artificial life is the cause of all diseases. And they won't accept our natural life. That they think primitive, "We must advance." What is your advancement? Primitive life was also subjected to death. You are also subjected to death. So where is your advancement?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Advancement in decorating the dead body.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes, yes. Decorating a dead body, yes. So this is another foolishness. (loud sound of a chain-saw in the background) First of all they pin all these logs. Now they are cutting. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed. And millions of dollars will be spent for this purpose.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have so many plans, one after another. Never stop.
Prabhupāda: Restlessness. Not fixed up. What they are doing here?
Brahmānanda: They want to break these posts to dig this hole.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is a very big..., quite deep. I think they are digging so they can take this out. This is called technological advancement. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Yes, to work foolishly. (break) 6:37. Is that all right? What is your time?
Brahmānanda: 6:34.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But there is a direction.
Prabhupāda: Direction, yes. That is said, mayādhyakṣena prakṛtiḥ: (BG 9.10) "Under My direction." So if it is possible for a common man like me, how much it is possible for God? That we have to understand. Now I want to go to India, London. Now everything arrangement is made. I can go immediately. So similarly, if God wants to do something, why He has to do something? Everything, as soon as He desires, everything is there. He wants "Let there be material creation." There is, immediately. This is God. We are thinking in my terms. "Oh, such a huge universe! How a person can create? Where he got this tool? Where he's got the hammer? And how he constructed it?" I am thinking like that. Because I am limited, I am thinking in my limited way. So I am denying, "There is no God." Therefore we have to first of all understand acintya, inconceivable power. Then we can understand God. If I think, "God may be..." That kūpa-maṇḍūka, that frog is thinking, "It may be little bigger than this, little bigger than this." So how you can understand Atlantic Ocean within the well? So these rascals are all frogs. So they are thinking in their own terms, God. And because they cannot accommodate, "There is no God, finish." The same example: the rabbit, "Close the eyes, there is no danger." Finish. That's it. They are no better than the rabbits, these so-called scientists. Closing the eyes, there is no God. You have to smash them by their, Tora lati na, tor śilā torna amora tora bāṇi dāntera gora.(?)
Prabhupāda: Ma-phal?
Guest (5): My father.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Guest (5): He's come around, eh? I think he came in London, to the Hare Kṛṣṇa temple in London. He came there. All (indistinct) This thing has really gone into my mind. And I don't drink, no meat, nothing, you know.
Prabhupāda: You don't eat meat?
Guest (5): Nothing. No drink, no...
Prabhupāda: Ah, very good boy. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...ready to sacrifice your hair?
Guest (5): Well, I had it before.
Guest (2): Not yet. (laughter)
Guest (1): Is it compulsory to have a full consciousness that he must shave his head?
Prabhupāda: No, no. This is formality. But he must be prepared to observe formality also. But if it is very much objectionable, sometimes we excuse.
Guest (8): We have been living fourteen years in this country. They were brought up here, and they never touched tea. They were brought up here, school education and all that, fourteen years...
Prabhupāda: Yes, in England, in London.
Guest (8): And I must say they are advancing more than me, really. I am still the same stage; by Prabhupāda's grace, they are advancing more, get up early in the morning, four o'clock, take bath...
Prabhupāda: No, this kind of family life is very suitable. This is wanted. All the wife... His wife is very nice girl. And she is good devotee. So if wife is favorable, then everything is favorable. Household life means cooperation with wife. Na gṛhaṁ gṛham ity āhur gṛhiṇī gṛham ucyate. Just like we are also living within a room, gṛha. But we are sannyāsī. What is the difference between gṛhastha and sannyāsī? He lives with his wife. Gṛhiṇī gṛham ity āhuḥ. Gṛhiṇī means "the wife is gṛha." So if the wife is favorable, devotee, then there is no use of giving up family life. That's all. We have got so many married couples. Just like this boy. He's married. His wife is there. They are favorable. Both husband and wife, they have dedicated life for Kṛṣṇa. So it is very nice. It is not that he has to become sannyāsī. No. Why? There is no necessity. Gṛhe vā vanete thāko. Either you become sannyāsī or gṛhastha, the life must be dedicated for Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That is required. And for Kṛṣṇa's sake, if we have to give up something, is that very difficult job? If Kṛṣṇa wants that "You give up this habit,"... Just like Kṛṣṇa says... If you become devotee of Kṛṣṇa... Now, Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). So Kṛṣṇa wants that patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalam, "Vegetable, milk, rice, grains, you can give Me." So you have to please Kṛṣṇa. You live on this, what Kṛṣṇa says, and take Kṛṣṇa's prasādam. That's all. (People coming in) Aiye. (Hindi) (break)
Prabhupāda: Where you are staying here? London?
Buddhist Monk (1): That has become a little difficult because... It's difficult. We didn't know these āśramas, and we came yesterday. The Guru Nanak temple people made arrangements for our transport. We were staying with them for one week, and they looked after us dearly, and they made arrangements for our transport to come here. Some people were coming on some other business. So they brought us. So it was not much time. So we met a person in the street, and we told them that we are looking after a place to stay. And that person said, "Well, it's difficult here." Then I asked about two or three, and we had some addresses and they were far away. Then we met a friendly gentleman who was just reversing his car. He was smiling. And we smiled. We said, "Well, could you tell us a small place to pitch a tent." We carry a small tent. We said, "For a day or two..." He asked me how long. I said, "Just to find some breathing space at least." So we have pitched up a small tent in a private garden. That's somewhere in Cheswick Lane.
Prabhupāda: Where it is?
Haṁsadūta: Cheswick Lane.
Buddhist Monk (1): That's by the river, uh? It's quite far away, yes. So last night we stayed there. Is that on the western side of...?
Devotee: Yes, that's the West Fork.
Buddhist Monk (1): West Fork. West Fork.
Prabhupāda: This is northern? No, southern. I do not know. We are also (Buddhist laughs) camped for the last few days. We do not know much about...
Prabhupāda: Yes, go on.
David Lawrence: "2.) to give the teacher all the information," uh, where were we, "he or she may need to find out more than the booklet can include, for example, to satisfy the really interested inquirer, 3.) by a total sense experience, the cultural gap, which may unnecessarily alienate the students and therefore hamper a worthwhile consideration of the movement, 4.) by offering a wide variety of approaches, the student will not feel that he is simply studying another textbook, 5.) a booklet on Kṛṣṇa consciousness without the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra in a living form would be an absurdity, so the contents of the teacher's pack: A.) the forty-five r.p.m. record of the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, B.) a glossy poster of Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa, C.) a map of the devotional centers of Kṛṣṇa, D.) a list of additional films, filmstrips and records likely to help the student, both from the center and from elsewhere, E.) sample literature from the organization, e.g. Back to Godhead, F.) a pack of Spiritual Sky incense, G.) a filmstrip,"—the enclosure of the filmstrip depends on the costing; R.E. departments are always very poor in this country—"H.) recipes and notes on the meaning of ārati, I.) several sheets of objections to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and the rebuttals of these objections, J.) suggestions for the teaching of the subject." Then I've gone on to say a little bit about the structure of the booklet. "Hopefully, the first section would establish the claims of the relevance of the spiritual life in 1973, and then the claims of Kṛṣṇa consciousness to be the true pathway to the eternal. This we would like to do by means of holding up a respected example of somebody who is already walking the path, e.g. an ideal way would be by the examination of the beliefs of George Harrison, and more especially of those expounded on living in the material world." Then go on to the history of the movement: "Lord Caitanya, Śrī Sarasvatī,..." apologies for the way I pronounce the names, "Śrī Prabhupāda's commission to the western world, the growth of ISKCON, the establishment of the London center," you know, to bring it locally, if you like, then on to "a typical devotee, his day..." This, I've said, will help to personalize the whole idea, you know. They can relate to the person concerned with this. Then "a section on the sacred scriptures of the Vedas, a background, and then quotations of frequently used texts. Then onto the beliefs of the devotees, based mainly upon the eight principles of ISKCON, and the Introduction of the Bhagavad-gītā As It Is." Our hopes are to, you know, work very hard from that section because it's, that introduction has got everything. I've been working on it a week, and I think, uh, I've gone back over...
Prabhupāda: The Bhagavad-gītā?
David Lawrence: Oh, yes. I've gone back over it about forty times now already. So I think I'm beginning to get hold of it. And then there would be lastly a reference section which would include all addresses that they would find useful, a glossary of the terms used, and an index, etc.
Prabhupāda: Very good. This...
David Lawrence: That...
Prabhupāda: ...synopsis is very nice.
David Lawrence: Yes, yes. We try to bring in as much... In fact, now we have a new course... This is the sort of thing that's happening. (Break) ...the Jewish-Christian scriptures which do not, you know, just don't lend themselves in any way to the right sort of feelings being created and the right sort of experience being created. We found that this year's course-it's the first year-has been tremendously helpful. We brought the boys... I can't think anybody was here, but we brought the boys up to the London temple, and...
Prabhupāda: Here?
David Lawrence: Yes. Well, no, in the Bury Place. And they were thrilled to bits. We had one or two who made the usual silly comments, you know, which you'd expect. But they were embarrassed, you know. Everything that came over, which was interesting, was that they found that all the devotees were very kind, very loving and very sincere. This, this came from even really the most secular of boys with a very, very low intelligence. He could see and perceive and understand that this was how it was.
Prabhupāda: That is our general certificate, everywhere. Even the Americans, they are surprised. They inquire, "Are you Americans?" (laughter.)
David Lawrence: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: You can come again anytime you like. After four, any evening you can come.
Prabhupāda: Have you, have you got any knife? Give me. (pause) So you are living in this village?
David Lawrence: London, you mean?
Prabhupāda: You live (in) London.
David Lawrence: No, I'm just here for the evening in fact. I'll be taken back this evening, hopefully, to London. I live on the shores of the English Ganges, you know, the Thames. (laughter) No, it's very difficult by transport at night. And I haven't got a car, you see.
Śyāmasundara: No, we'll take you back. Don't worry.
David Lawrence: It's always a thing...
Prabhupāda: There is no subway?
David Lawrence: Sometimes it runs.
Prabhupāda: Oh, (laughs) sometimes?
David Lawrence: The subway's all right. It's the main line that I have to get, going back, you see.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
David Lawrence: This is the problem. If one is at late at night, it's difficult.
Śyāmasundara: No, we'll take you.
David Lawrence: That's great. (pause, Prabhupāda hums) (talking about fruit:)
Prabhupāda: How to cut it?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Śyāmasundara: He likes to hear it.
Prabhupāda: "I am in material world."
Śyāmasundara: We get letters from all over the world addressed to George Harrison care of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Temple London. (laughter) From Poland, from behind the Iron Curtain even. Russia, China, every place, they send.
Prabhupāda: And he has mentioned my Bhagavad-gītā in my name also.
David Lawrence: Yes.
Prabhupāda: In the in...? What is that?
Śyāmasundara: In the insert, in the record insert.
David Lawrence: Yes. In fact, when they picked up my copy of the Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, which was on my desk, two or three boys immediately said, "Ah, that's on the George Harrison L.P."
Prabhupāda: He has very intelligently connected.
David Lawrence: Yes, yes. It was there.
Prabhupāda: This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement with his...
Śyāmasundara: He doesn't want to do it overtly because they will think he is crazy. So he's doing gradually.
David Lawrence: Very gradually.
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes. But the people who rule India now have a western education mostly. The Indians who...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Perverted, converted. Just like Nehru. Nehru was western-educated. He was educated in London. But he hated everything Indian.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That was the res... Formerly, in our childhood we saw that any gentleman coming here in London and goes back to India, he no more mixes with the Indian soil. He... They were called "England-returned." So they made their own society. Then our Ram Mohan Raya, he formed a Brahmo Society. And so many things changed. Again, they are now topsy-turvied. So actually, India's position is that they have lost their own culture, and they could not assimilate the western culture. But in the western countries, if they accept this Vedic process of civilization, then they will again take it.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause)
Śyāmasundara: "A Rival for Nelson."
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Śyāmasundara: "A Rival for Nelson."
Prabhupāda: Yes. There was newspaper photograph. You have seen that?
Śyāmasundara: Guardian.
Prabhupāda: Guardian. "A Rival for Nelson." Yes.
Prabhupāda: Within ten thousand years, if they become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then life is successful. After ten thousand years, the gloomy picture of Kali-yuga will come. Still there is time. Ten thousand years is not small period. So we have passed five thousand years. So still ten thousand. We have got to the fifteen thousand years. Kali-yuga's duration of life is four hundred thousand, four hundred and twenty-seven thousand. Char-lakh murti saja. (?) Yes.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Do you travel much all over the world and...?
Prabhupāda: Yes. At least twice in a year, all over the world. Just in April I was here, in London. April? Or May?
Śyāmasundara: May.
Prabhupāda: May.
Śyāmasundara: Then to India.
Prabhupāda: In the month of May I was here. Again I have come in July. Formerly, from India to come to London, it was like a dream. And now it is daily affair. (laughs)
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: You get on the plane in the morning and go in the evening there. Simply you have to pay. Otherwise, there is no difficulty. So let us... So thank you very much for your...
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: It was very kind of you to come.
Prabhupāda: Therefore you are keeping your health very nice. In younger days, you were sportsman.
Śyāmasundara: You eat entirely everything. (laughs)
Lord Brockway: You have done very well. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: You told Mālatī when you first came that you have come to London to eat. 'Cause in India you were not eating very much.
Lord Brockway: No?
Prabhupāda: Not at all. Due to excessive heat, I could not eat. Therefore I came here. Yes.
Lord Brockway: I have had a big meal tonight.
Prabhupāda: A big meal?
Lord Brockway: And I do not eat very much usually.
Prabhupāda: I also do not eat, but when there is palatable, I eat. (laughs) (to devotee) Sit down. (Prabhupāda goes to wash)
Lord Brockway: Now listen, I do not wish to detain him long.
Śyāmasundara: All right, whenever you wish to go, you just tell me.
Lord Brockway: Yes, we will, we will go soon.
Prabhupāda: He's thoroughly understanding-before killing. Not that "We have (indistinct) reason to kill." No. So we are rather unhappy that in London I've seen thousands of churches practically closed. Nobody is going there. We are not happy to see. This is happening. But why people are abstaining from going to the church? Although there is Pope, and so many priests and other things. Why?
Reporter: It has become an institution, and there is no more religious...
Prabhupāda: Life.
Reporter: ...experience in life.
Prabhupāda: There is no life. A simple thing, that if you disobey the orders of Lord Christ, how will you become a Christian, first of all? Where is your Christianity? Simply rubber-stamping "I'm Christian" you become a Christian, without following the tenets?
Reporter: Same as you were saying, Nehru was not a brāhmaṇa, but only because he was called brāhmaṇa. So...
Prabhupāda: No, why Nehru? Everyone.
Reporter: Everyone.
Prabhupāda: Everyone. Unless he follows the principles of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, how he becomes one? Therefore we have concluded everyone is a śūdra. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ.
Reporter: Hm. Hm. It's a very high stage, too, each.
Prabhupāda: How long you are here, in London?
Reporter: I have been on and off for two, three years.
Prabhupāda: Ah.
Reporter: And I will stay two or three more years.
Prabhupāda: So, you are family man?
Reporter: Yes, this is my wife.
Prabhupāda: You're married here.
Reporter: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Children?
Reporter: One child.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Reporter: And we have called our child Mukti.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. (everyone laughs) But another thing, (everyone laughs). Rūpa Gosvāmī says bhukti-mukti-spṛhā yāvat piśācī hṛdi vartate. Manifested..., that so long the piśācī... Piśācī, you know?
Reporter: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: The piśācī of bhukti and mukti. Bhukti means karmī's business, "I shall enjoy."
Reporter: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Bhukti. And mukti means "I shall become one with the Supreme." So these two things are described as piśācī.
Prabhupāda: So they don't come there.
Mother: No, no.
Prabhupāda: That was the only place in the world there was no such sound. Otherwise everywhere. In America we have got so many temples. Even in West Virginia, hilly tract, there is also aeroplane. But less sound. Here it is near London, there must be. Yes.
Jesuit Priest: Have you met Mother Theresa?
Prabhupāda: Who is Mother Theresa?
Devotee: She's a Christian mystic.
Revatīnandana: She's a Christian nun, and she has a mission in Calcutta.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Saint Theresa?
Revatīnandana: Mother Theresa. She's living there now.
Jesuit Priest: She's an Albanian nun who works in India and is, and has captivated the whole world just by the fantastic work she's done and is doing amongst the down, the outcastes and the desperately poor in the cities of India, particularly in Calcutta. And she's got disciples, young men, young women, joining her, where most of the other religious orders are desperately short. And the youth is being captivated by her, and they can't cope with the numbers wanting to join. And she was given a big speech in the Guild Hall in London and was the first person presented with an enormous sum of money by the Duke of Edinburgh, voted by the World Council of Churches as the outstanding religious person in the world. And people at her speech who heard, it brought the audience to its feet. And all she said in her speech was nothing more except "Love, love, love, love. Just go on giving and look for nothing back," which made an enormous impact, probably the greatest impact that anybody's making at present, in the world at present. (jet going over) (break)
Prabhupāda: ...satisfied to remain in the village. That is the defect of the modern civilization.
Prabhupāda: Then you become pure. You become pure.
Revatīnandana: Yes. Yes.
Jesuit Priest: That's very interesting.
Revatīnandana: I just met a gentleman who told me exactly that. Just a few min... He's a businessman here in London. He's about forty years old. And three months ago, he decided, because he learned, heard this from us, he decided to become a vegetarian. And a few weeks later, I talked to him. He said, "You know, it's amazing the difference in my consciousness." He says, "I have become a completely different man." Yeah, he told me that.
Prabhupāda: Well, yes...
Revatīnandana: And he's a very intelligent man. He's in the Mensa Society.
Prabhupāda: In the Vedic literature it is said the animal killers cannot understand God.
Mother: Well, this is very good, sir, that you find this, and I say, this is not my argument... Yes. Hmmm.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Not practical also. I have seen the animal killers. They do not understand what is God. That is a fact. Neither they have got brain to understand it.
Mother: But you don't need brain if you're not going to study or to do anything further. If you just sit and sleep like...
Prabhupāda: No, we are studying. Because we are preaching, we are studying that. The animal eaters, they cannot have any conception of God. The brain is so dull.
Prabhupāda: But... That's all right. If some of our student goes to the university... There are many students...
Revatīnandana: Now wait a minute. We didn't snatch Michael.
Prabhupāda: We don't object to that.
Revatīnandana: Michael came to the temple in London, sat down, and didn't want to go away.
Mother: He'd been taking LSD, and he was very sick. And somebody took him in.
Prabhupāda: So,... So when he was taking LSD, what did you do for him?
Revatīnandana: Why was he taking LSD? He had wonderful education, happy home, so many things.
Mother: Well, he was experimenting. Now this is it...
Revatīnandana: So LSD is acknowledged a dangerous thing to experiment with.
Prabhupāda: You like that? You like that?
Mother: Well, he had a false... This was not...
Prabhupāda: When he was taking LSD, did you like that?
Mother: I didn't know, did I?
Prabhupāda: Then?
Mother: Until afterwards, and we found him.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Schumacher: I mean a fellow who builds himself a huge house when we have twenty-thousand actually, actually homeless people without a roof over their head in London... Now I would like those things to be raised into real spiritual problems.
Haṁsadūta: Yes, let them come here. We will...
Schumacher: And not to get satisfaction out of making idealistic...
Haṁsadūta: Yes, we have such a big place, but why they are not coming? We have temples all over the world, but people are not coming.
Prabhupāda: Because there are restriction.
Schumacher: That is not, that is not... That doesn't meet my point. My point is...
Haṁsadūta: Why not? If they have no place to live, let them come and live here. We are convinced that Kṛṣṇa can provide place for any number of His...
Prabhupāda: Millions.
Haṁsadūta: ...devotees. Any number.
Popworth: I found this the other day, and you'll forgive me making this point, but when I was in discussion, it was impossible for me to make a point without being interrupted so frequently that I failed to make my point at all. Now, can I beg for courtesy for our guest to listen to what he has to say. Then answer him.
Revatīnandana: But... Just that this is interesting, that the solution is there...
Schumacher: But you haven't heard the problem yet.
Revatīnandana: But the problem is that people cannot understand the solution. They cannot understand.
Prabhupāda: But one thing...
Revatīnandana: Why they cannot understand?
Prabhupāda: Mister, yes... I forgot your name.
Prabhupāda: Like imitating Beatle groups.
Devotee: Allen Ginsberg.
Prabhupāda: Allen Ginsberg. Allen Ginsberg has no more popularity.
Devotee: No, not much.
Prabhupāda: He's roaming like vagabond. He came, London, to see me. That... He came, also. What is that? Bob...?
Yogeśvara: Bob Dylan?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yogeśvara: You mean in London, in London.
Prabhupāda: No. He came to Los Angeles.
Śrutakīrti: He was at different temples in the United States, he was travelling by car.
Devotee: And He came to see Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: No, he came to our temple in Los Angeles and paid three hundred dollars to the Deity.
Devotee: Oh, that's nice.
Prabhupāda: Some jewels.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Come. Come on.
Yogeśvara: Give him some prasādam before he leaves.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Take little prasādam.
Reporter: Thank you very much.
Dr. Inger: I was hoping, many years since I went to London to the Hare Krishna center there...,
Prabhupāda: Oh, you have been in our temple?
Dr. Inger: Many times, yes. And I had followed the booklets that came, Back to Godhead, also read. I didn't get, I didn't have a copy of the Bhāgavatam, but I read your translations...
Prabhupāda: You are Indian?
Dr. Inger: Yes, I'm an Indian. I have been working a long time in Paris. I am a resident more or less in Paris. I work for UNESCO, and I'm a writer. I go backwards and forwards a lot to India. But my headquarters have been here for a long time. So I'm associated...
Prabhupāda: How long you are here?
Dr. Inger: In France, I've been twenty-five years.
Prabhupāda: Oh, I see. And wherefrom you came?
Dr. Inger: Punjab.
Prabhupāda: Punjab.
Prabhupāda: Long time ago. I went there in 1925. I was going to Kashmir. On my way I stopped in Lahore, Amritsar, and some other places.
Dr. Inger: Yes, and yes, and then, you came first to Europe about six years ago?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Dr. Inger: Yes, that's right. That's when... It was about a year after that I, or two years, that I went to London. And then saw the, saw there several times. And then, of course, been reading books. Here, too, I came across some people. When it first started, it was in Boulevard Raspail. Then it went to Fontenay Aux Rose.
Yogeśvara: He's been following our movement here in Paris as well.
Dr. Inger: Yes, yes. I met a few. In fact the, this young Spaniard who showed us up, I saw him when he was selling a few things in the Drug Store. Yes. You know. Malas and other stuff.
Bhagavān: So now we are much bigger.
Dr. Inger: Yes, yes. Of course. And...
Prabhupāda: You have seen all our books?
Dr. Inger: No, no. I have only seen a few in London.
Prabhupāda: Why don't you show our books. Show him?
Dr. Inger: I haven't seen the new ones. I have seen the...
Prabhupāda: Bring all the books.
Prabhupāda: That means... these rascals, they have simply imperfect knowledge. Still, they are leader. That is our protest. That why you become leader? You have got so many imperfections. Why you are cheating people? That is our protest. You have no perfect knowledge. Still, you become leader. Why? Why you are cheating men like that? Just like the professor who was speaking that by four, combination of four chemicals, life has come. And as soon as he was challenged that: "If I give you these four chemicals, whether you can produce life?" He said: "That I cannot say." Then what is the use of speaking like that? So they're cheating, and people are being cheated. Still, they're given Nobel Prize. "Oh, here is a big man." They'll talk all nonsense. At, at the same time, they'll become professor, teacher. And people will accept. So at least let us protest against this system.
Bhagavān: Guru-gaurāṅga, that kīrtana's too loud downstairs. There was a professor who came to see you in London, the religion professor.
Haṁsadūta: Professor Hardin.
Bhagavān: When he said that: "Many times, my students ask me questions that I do not know. So I try to answer." But you said: "If you do not know, you should not teach." You said: "Our philosophy is that if you do not know, you should step down." He said: "I cannot do that."
Prabhupāda: He's getting salary, money. No sincerity.
Prabhupāda: So we are not asking in that way. We are asking, "What is that ultimate goal?" (break)
Yogeśvara: ...ultimately, by following a process that the Rosicrucian order gives its students, one reaches the goal.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Suppose if I am going to London. So unless I am interested to go to London, what is the use of knowing how to go to London?
Yogeśvara: Their students feel the need for this ultimate perfection and that's why they come to the movement.
Prabhupāda: But if he does not know what is ultimate perfection, this is bogus.
Yogeśvara: (break) ...realization of God.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Just like if I say that "If you do like this, you can make one million dollars." But you know what is the value of one millions dollars; then you endeavor. But if we don't know what is that one million dollars, why should we endeavor?
Yogeśvara: No, he said, all of their students, they know the value of realizing God in their heart.
Prabhupāda: How do they know? How do they know?
Yogeśvara: There are already people who are aspiring after a richer, more spiritual life.
Prabhupāda: What is that spiritual life? (break)
Yogeśvara: ...high spiritual values, the things...
Prabhupāda: These are simply words. What is the spiritual life. I want to know. (break) ...is useless.
Śrutakīrti: Someone showed me a small article in the newspaper the other day in London. At one of his meetings, he was speaking and someone walked up to him like he was going to hand him a bouquet of flowers, and instead he threw a pie in his face.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Śrutakīrti: He threw a pie in his face. He appeared like he was going to give him something. But he put a pie in his face.
Prabhupāda: Pie?
Haṁsadūta: A pie is a cake.
Śrutakīrti: A cake.
Haṁsadūta: A apple cake...
Śrutakīrti: Pastry, pushed it in his face.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, he became God?
Śrutakīrti: No! Therefore, I don't think he's very widely accepted as God.
Prabhupāda: No. That's all right. But whatever propaganda, little, he has made, we must make some counter-propaganda. We must prove him... Simply pushing eyes, pushing eyes. And anyone can push one's eyes and there is some light within... That is called retina light or... What is called? And he has become God. At least, we, we should not allow the people to be in darkness and accept him as God. We have got our meeting. We shall say: That he is a rascal. Call him by all ill names. A cheater. He does not believe in the authoritative scriptures. And he has become God? What he has done? How you have become so foolish? God has created the universe, what he has created? A cake, creating, He's God?
Haṁsadūta: Ummh?
Prabhupāda: He has created one cake?
Śrutakīrti: No, no. No.
Haṁsadūta: No, you misunderstood the point.
Śrutakīrti: One person walked up to him and he threw a pie in his face. As an insult, as insulting him.
Prabhupāda: Oh. The man insulted him.
Prabhupāda: So Indian caste brāhmaṇas, they are against me, against me. They come to fight with me that I am spoiling Hindu religion.
Professor: (laughs) Well, you are a brāhmaṇa yourself.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I am now sannyāsī.
Haṁsadūta: This is a statement of account from the Central Bank of India. It just arrived from London.
Prabhupāda: Oh. (pause, opens letter) Any other letter? No.
Haṁsadūta: That's all. No.
Prabhupāda: So just see how we have translated. You are Sanskrit scholar.
Professor: You know the Kali-santaraṇa Upaniṣad?
Prabhupāda: Kali-santaraṇa Upaniṣad. Yes.
Professor: Yes, I have made a translation of it into French. It's under print now at the present.
Prabhupāda: Kali-santaraṇa Upaniṣad? That is Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra.
Professor: Yeah, that the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. That's the...
Yogeśvara: You mentioned that to Professor Stahl in your correspondences.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: No gifts. By selling books.
Professor: Why not?
Prabhupāda: There are sometimes gifts.
Professor: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Just like George Harrison has given us a house in London, Letchmore Heath. It is worth 220,000 pounds.
Haṁsadūta: Over a half million dollars.
Professor: Ācchā.
Prabhupāda: So you can come sometimes. No you can stay there. It is very nice place. We have 17 acres of land, open, with a lake. It is a royal palace.
Professor: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are installing our Deity next 21st. So if you have time, I invite you. It is not far, London.
Professor: London is not far. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Professor: You had a yātrā, I guess, in San Francisco, didn't you?
Prabhupāda: Yes, Ratha-yātrā, yes.
Professor: That was for the first time in '68, I guess.
Prabhupāda: This time I was present in the Ratha-yātrā. Yesterday, they were showing me the film. It was very successful. Ten thousand people participated.
Professor: In San Francisco, eh?
Prabhupāda: No, in London.
Professor: In London? When?
Prabhupāda: This July 8th.
Professor: This year?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śrutakīrti: Also Melbourne.
Prabhupāda: Melbourne. You have got those pictures? Melbourne?
Haṁsadūta: Yes.
Professor: You are not organizing a yātrā in Paris?
Prabhupāda: Yes, they'll do.
Professor: Next year?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I'll show the pictures.
Professor: Oh, I see.
Prabhupāda: It was published in, what is that, Observer paper?
Śrutakīrti: Oh, yes.
Yogeśvara: Yeah, the Observer, in London, the London Observer.
Prabhupāda: "Rival of Nelson."
Yogeśvara: It said, "A rival to Nelson's Column." They showed a picture of the Ratha next to the column of Nelson.
Professor: Oh, really?
Yogeśvara: Yeah. Our car was bigger than...
Prabhupāda: And they published it, "Rival of Nelson. The great rival of Nelson." They appreciated. Yes.
Professor: Sure, I know...
Prabhupāda: Everyone, everyone appreciated. After Ratha-yātrā, wherever our men went, they were received very well.
Professor: And what was the attitude of the Indian colony in London?
Prabhupāda: I do not know what is Indian colony.
Professor: There are many.
Prabhupāda: Yes, there are many. These are some of the pictures in Melbourne.
Prabhupāda: This is their rascal's philosophy. They have no idea that by training one can forget sex life. So if you forget sex life, where is the question of abortion? Where is the question of abortion? But they cannot do that. Therefore, it is said adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram (SB 7.5.30). By nonrestricted sense enjoyment they are gradually going to the animal, lower grade of life. They cannot explain why there are so many varieties of life. They cannot explain. So this killer of baby within the womb, so the result will be that this man who is, I mean to say, indulging in abortion, he'll be put into the womb, and somebody will kill him. And as many wombs or babies he has killed, he'll have to take so many lives and being killed. So much so that it will be rather impossible for him for hundreds of years not to see the light. He'll remain in the womb and being killed. Does not know the nature's law. One cannot violate the nature's law. You can violate the state law. Suppose you kill somebody, you can escape by trick. But you cannot escape nature's law. As many times you have killed, so many times you have to be killed within the womb. This is nature's law.
David Lawrence: I was very interested to talk to a nurse in one of the main London hospitals only last week in fact, and she was saying that they're having an almost impossible time trying to man these abortion wards now because all the nurses and doctors just don't want to do the work. In some cases, she was saying, that they take a baby from its mother's womb and it's sort of put onto a tray and thrown into a litter bin and you can see it moving!
Prabhupāda: Yes.
David Lawrence: And they've had one or two cases at their hospital where they've gone out afterwards and they've seen babies moving! Terrible.
Prabhupāda: It has been seen in Calcutta also, in dust bin found out some child, dust bin.
Śyāmasundara: In order to get our license.
Revatīnandana: Otherwise, we wouldn't be able to get a license for using it for defending the property.
Śyāmasundara: Except that...
Revatīnandana: We could put an alarm system in if we put jewels in the Deity room.
Harry: Oh yes, yes, put an alarm in, yes.
Śyāmasundara: This is England, after all, a civilized country.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Revatīnandana: Even in London, we haven't had need of..., haven't had much trouble.
Harry: Well, no, but you see...
Prabhupāda: In America also, I have seen...
Harry: ...there are some people who...
Prabhupāda: ...in counties , they keep open door. I was in Butler.
Harry: Yes, oh, yes, yes. But don't forget, gentlemen, as I say, I, you must realize that I still have a job to do and if there was something in which you think I should report upon...
Prabhupāda: Mr. Ha... (opening letter), you can read this letter, that so many people, they offered their place for our temple. Just now we have received this letter. One body is offering his...
Śyāmasundara: Yeah. I brought that letter from London. It's from Guyana.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: He wants to write you into his will or something, give some money.
Prabhupāda: In India, also, there is that Bengali gentleman, he was offering two lands, one Agartala, and Agra. The people are still willing to cooperate with religious movement.
Revatīnandana: Yeah, this place is also donated.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Haṁsadūta: God is meant for everybody. Doesn't matter East or West. Just like Kṛṣṇa appeared in India, but we are not Indians. We are all Americans and Europeans, so... Just like the sun. The sun may appear over London or England, but it's not English sun. Everyone's sun. Similarly, when God appears or God's representative appears, it's meant for everyone.
Guest (1): Yes. So, forgive me if I talk across you, please, won't you.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, yes.
Haṁsadūta: Just like if we see, just like suppose President Nixon, it's announced: "Mr. Nixon is coming July 7th 1974 to London." So this is an authoritative statement so we accept it. We don't speculate, maybe he comes in August, or what he's going to do. So similarly God is so great, He can make a program over thousands and thousands of years. For instance, this Bhāgavatam, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, was compiled five thousand years ago, and in the Bhāgavatam the appearance of Buddha is foretold, who appeared two thousand, four hundred years after that book was compiled. And Caitanya is..., that is five thousand years later. And Kalki avatāra is yet to come four hundred thousand years from now. So God is so great that He can give His program so many thousands of years in advance and we simply should accept it on that basis. We shouldn't speculate any further.
Guest (1): Fair enough.
Haṁsadūta: Whatever is given there in the śāstra, in the scripture, we should accept it as perfect, that's all. That is our position. We should just accept the perfect.
Guest (1): Unquestioning.
Haṁsadūta: Yes, without, not without questioning, if there is some, but not with speculation or challenging.
Guest (1): I didn't mean to speculate, I'm sure you appreciate that. I just am wondering whether the smallness of my perception in seeing Him coming for almost a national purpose whereas in fact He's coming for an international...,
Haṁsadūta: A spiritual purpose, beyond even international, spiritual. Because on the spiritual platform the nation is one, God's nation.
Guest (1): Well for instance today, this evening, I have found that what I have always heard of as Kṛṣṇa is your term for God isn't it?
Haṁsadūta: Yes. God has many names but the chief name, best name, is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means the all-attractive. He attracts everyone.
Guest (1): Yes. Now in speaking some while ago to some Muslims, they were saying that there is only one God and Allah is His name. Now...?
Haṁsadūta: Yes, that's a fact. God is one. But because He's the supreme, His names are many.
Guest (1): Many, right, lovely.
Haṁsadūta: Just like you have two or three names. You children call you "Daddy," your wife is calling you by some name, the boss calls you by another name, the neighbors by another name. So we are ordinary, we have already three, four names. God has millions of names. But He is one.
Guest (1): That's a very helpful expression, thank you very much.
Haṁsadūta: And similarly religion is one. Because God is one, His religion, because religion means law of God. Whatever He speaks, it must be the same everywhere. Either in the Bible, Koran or the Bhagavad-gītā. Unfortunately we are making so many differentiations or distinctions or contradictions. But actually on principle, there is only one religion. If we actually understand religion, the word of God, law of God, there can't be two religions. Just like mathematics is one.
Guest (1): I do feel that. It's because I do feel that so very strongly, I cannot feel impelled to give allegiance to any sect at all. It's repugnant to me.
Haṁsadūta: Sectarianism is the great enemy of...
Guest (1): It is, it's a dreadful thing.
Prabhupāda: From practical life, just like world's principal religion, Christianism, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Mohammedanism also, the principle of not killing is there, every religion. Buddhism, they're completely for not killing. No circumstances, at any circumstances killing is not allowed. Similarly, in Vedic religion, killing is not allowed, but at circumstances, it is allowed. Similarly Christianity, they also say, "Thou shall not kill." Mohammedans also, they allow killing, but circumstantially. So the principle of killing is forbidden every religion, every religion. So the principle of religion is one. Take for example, in every religion there is acceptance of God and religion means to abide by the order of God. So how there can be two religions? There cannot be two religions. "I believe like that, we believe like that." These are man-made. But actual religion is that God is one and religion means the orders, the law given by God. That's all. Simple definition. Just like state is one, government is one, and to become good citizen means to abide by the laws of the government. That's all. Those, one who is abiding by the laws of God, he is perfect religionist. It doesn't matter whether he's a Hindu, he's a Muslim or a Christian. Whether he has got proper sense what is meant by God and what is the order of God. Then he is religionist, perfect religionist.
Ambassador: It's mūḍha-dhī.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But these rascals, they say, "Yes, I'm religious," but he's doing most irreligious activities. You see? I asked the Christian so many times that "Your Bible says, 'Thou shalt not kill.' Why you are killing?" They cannot give any satisfactory answer. This is my experience. It is clearly said, "Thou shalt not kill." And they are maintaining slaughterhouses. What is this? The other day in London, one lady, she was showing me... She... You were present? Broke some grass blade?
Haṁsadūta: Oh yes, I was present.
Prabhupāda: Just see. Breaking a grass blade is equal to keeping a big, organized slaughterhouse. Just see.
Ambassador: I see.
Prabhupāda: This is their intelligence. She has complained, "It is also killing." Supposing it is killing. Actually it is not killing. Supposing it is killing. This killing and keeping organized slaughterhouse killing is the same thing. Just see. People have become so degraded.
Ambassador: This is sophistry.
Prabhupāda: They give this example that: "You also kill vegetables, just this grass blade is broken. It is killed. So it is equal to maintaining a big slaughterhouse." You see? This is going on, under the name of re... They, they were Christian nuns. In London they come to me, talk some time. So... And in India also, we see now cow killing is going on, regular slaughterhouse and... What can I say? You are government man. (laughs) You may take some wrong views about me. What is your opinion, personal?
Prabhupāda: They're also thinking that "We are not sumptuously fed," or something. Some demands is there. Some demand. And they are lying down, Amsterdam and here, on the street. And why? But they are coming of rich families, rich nation. Especially America. In London also, I have seen. Regent Park. They're lying down. Police is kicking. Police is kicking: "Get up, get up!" Why? Behind them the British Empire is, British government is there. Why he's lying down there? Who has told him to...? Government is requesting, "If you have no home, come on. I shall give you home." In Bombay also, these, what is called? The huts?
Haṁsadūta: Huts?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Haṁsadūta: Those tent huts?
Prabhupāda: They are on the... You have seen in Bombay?
Ambassador: Yes.
Prabhupāda: We passed, when we passed while coming from aerodrome to city...
Ambassador: From...
Prabhupāda: So many thatched cottages, small. So Bombay government has given them home, that "You come here, live." But what do they...? they rent to some, another man, and they live in the... In Madras also, I have seen.
Ambassador: I know. That's true.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They don't like. They don't like. They want to...
Ambassador: They roam, yes. It's what the gypsies did, you know.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: This. No, not this. Where is that catalog?
Haṁsadūta: Brockridge, Keenan and Hall?
Prabhupāda: Ah, ah?
Haṁsadūta: Catalog? I think we must have left that in London.
Prabhupāda: They are also distributing our books, Macmillan Company. People are... Now there will be a big meeting on the 12th, September, how to organize. Because this kind of literature was there, there was none before this. The bhakti cult, this was never presented to the western countries.
Ambassador: Yes, yes. Mostly it was Vivekananda's explanation.
Prabhupāda: Vivekananda did not know anything about bhakti.
Ambassador: No, I mean he just, literally, it's not bhakti at all. Yes, it is...
Prabhupāda: Neither Vivekananda nor any swami. That is the regrettable fact. They, actually... Even Dr. Radhakrishnan, he could not present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. You see? He's impersonalist, and he presented in a different way, and now Professor, Dr. Pirindher...?
Haṁsadūta: Philinder.
Śrutakīrti: Dillinger.
Prabhupāda: He said, he came to see me that "Now we have rejected Dr. Radhakrishnan."
Ambassador: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Translation.
Ambassador: Viccheda. How long will Your Divine Grace be here?
Prabhupāda: Four days?
Haṁsadūta: It's on the 11th. Eleventh morning we're leaving, back to London.
Ambassador: Back to London. And you'll be visiting only Sweden this time?
Haṁsadūta: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Ambassador: Not Copenhagen or Oslo?
Haṁsadūta: No.
Paramahaṁsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda attem... He traveled to Paris, and also, previously, to Amsterdam and Germany, in years previously.
Ambassador: This temple is going to be a permanent situation, this particular building, or...?
Paramahaṁsa: Yes.
Ambassador: Or somewhere.
Paramahaṁsa: In the beginning stage, yes.
Ambassador: Yes, then you'll have to locate something.
Prabhupāda: So practically single-handed I am trying to give this original Indian culture to the world. And nobody's helping me. Neither, if some rich man wants to help me, government will not allow to help me.
Ambassador: Oh, yes, especially...
Prabhupāda: Now just like Sir Padampat Singhania of Kanpur, he promised that, "You just construct a nice temple in New York." He wanted to give the money. The government will not allow.
Paramahaṁsa: Perth.
Prabhupāda: Perth. And Darwin.
Ambassador: Darwin also.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And we had very gorgeous Ratha-yātrā ceremony in Australia. In London also. You know that? Ten thousand people participated, and we distributed prasādam.
Ambassador: On the 12th you'll have it in London.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Ambassador: This big meeting will be in London, on the 12th.
Haṁsadūta: That is another meeting. Our Ratha-yātrā is held on July 8th in London.
Ambassador: Yes, that's right.
Haṁsadūta: July 8th. And simultaneously in San Francisco and in Sydney, all over the world.
Prabhupāda: And during Janmāṣṭamī, the...
Ambassador: Ah, Janmāṣṭamī.
Prabhupāda: The, the ambassador, Mr. Rasagotra...
Ambassador: Rasagotra.
Prabhupāda: He came. He's very nice man.
Haṁsadūta: Jaya Hari.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Jaya Hari, no, Jaya Hari. What is the name?
Haṁsadūta: Jaya Hari.
Prabhupāda: Jaya Hari, eh? So what has happened to you?
Jaya Hari: I've been working in London, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: But when I go to London temple, I don't see you.
Jaya Hari: I've been working for others.
Prabhupāda: I, I, I think there is something wrong. What is that?
Jaya Hari: Well, you see I've just been very heavily engaged.
Prabhupāda: No.
Jaya Hari: This reception I've been working on.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Jaya Hari: I've been working on this reception also.
Prabhupāda: So you are a good boy. You were doing good book selling. Now you have stopped. Why?
Jaya Hari: Well, this reception is one of the points for...
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Jaya Hari: One of the main reasons for having this reception was to help sell the books, also.
Prabhupāda: No, I no... You cannot forget your duty. If, if there is some extra duty, that does not mean you shall forget your own duty. So now they are selling books. You also join. Yes. And you have no tilaka. You are just like ordinary boy. Why?
Jaya Hari: I don't have time to...
Prabhupāda: No, no. This is not good. This is not good. You must be as our representative, with tilaka, as we are dressed. Yes. Don't be deviated. You have got a good opportunity. Don't be deviated by bad association. Yes. You are a good boy. So you must revive to your original position. All right. Thank you.
Prof. Gombrich: No, I haven't, I'm afraid. No. And do you think that the message of Kṛṣṇa consciousness or Kṛṣṇa Caitanya is very different from the message of realizing God which is promulgated in other religions, for instance the Śaiva religion or...?
Prabhupāda: No I don't think so. Any religion, you follow nicely. Just Christian religion, there is God consciousness. So actually it is not this religion or that religion. People have given up religion. All over the world they have no more interest in religion. And especially I see that in your London that so many churches are vacant. Nobody's going there. So thing is that there is no more regular teaching of religious system. It has become a profession like. Neither the teachers are serious, nor the students are serious. So our principle is that not this religion or that religion. Whichever religion you may like, you can follow, but we want to see whether you are God conscious. If you are not God conscious, then we take it simply useless waste of time, these so-called religions. Śrama eva hi kevalam. You understand Sanskrit.
Prabhupāda: No, old book.
Indian Woman: But, Guru Mahārāja, one has to do her duty as advised.
Prabhupāda: You do not know what is your duty, first of all. A madman, he does not know his duty.
Indian Woman: But if he's (indistinct), then where is he going to get the money for his food?
Prabhupāda: Oh, where we are getting money? Where we are getting money? Just like In London, George Harrison has given us a house, fifty-five lakhs worth. So if I wanted to possess this house by doing this business, three lifetimes would have been required. Not even three lifetimes. We are spending like anything. But we have no stock. We do not know what we shall eat tomorrow morning. We do not know. It is our position. We do not know what I shall eat tomorrow or this evening. But do you think we are starving? We have no problem.
Guest (1): Kṛṣṇa says, yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22).
Prabhupāda: Yes. Here it is. Kṛṣṇa is giving opportunity of eating for the cats and dogs, the birds and beasts, and I am engaged in His service, He'll not give me food? Because we are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, therefore we are thinking, "If I do not work like these cats and dogs, I'll starve." That is my imperfect Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And perfect Kṛṣṇa consciousness means he knows that "I have engaged my life in Kṛṣṇa's business. Kṛṣṇa is..., Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. He's feeding millions and millions of living entities. And he'll keep me starving?" Is it possible? That means he, he does not know what is Kṛṣṇa. He's thinking Kṛṣṇa is a fictitious thing. That is his position. He does not know what is Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...then they would have been confident, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is feeding everyone. Why not me? What I have done? Because I am engaged in His service, therefore I shall starve?" And the devotee has no such question also, whether he'll starve or eat. It doesn't matter if he starves. It doesn't matter. He thinks, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has put me in this position, to starve." Just like in hospital. A patient is ordered by the physician: "You should not eat anything." So he knows, "It is good for me." Similarly, a devotee, when he's starving, he knows, "Kṛṣṇa has put me in this starving condition. It is good for me." He never complains.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Do you want to play it?
Prabhupāda: Yes, why not play it. Bring that record. On New York, Fifth Avenue, our saṅkīrtana party is going on.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They are carrying the gramophone now.
Prabhupāda: And in London, Oxford Street, the most crowded street, just like our Bombay, Harley Road... So in the big, big cities they are now chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, dancing. People are enjoying. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). You can play this record at home and dance in tune and enjoy.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They are bringing it. This is the record, Every Town and Village. They are bringing the machine.
Prabhupāda: We are arrested by the police sometimes. Sometimes there are big cases against us. In Ireland. Ireland?
Pradyumna: Ireland, Scotland, in Edinburgh, too.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) These impediments are always there, even in Caitanya Mahāprabhu's time. The Kazi, the Mohammedan magistrate, he wanted to stop. (pause) Kṛṣṇa tvadīya pada-paṅkaja-pañjarāntam (MM 33). So you are devotee of Rādhārāṇī. Eh? Yes, that is good. Through Rādhārāṇī, one should approach Kṛṣṇa. And therefore Vṛndāvana, they, everyone says, "Jaya Rādhe," first of all glorifying Rādhārāṇī. We have got many records. This is one of them, kīrtana. (record starts playing) (break) (sounds of people leaving and Śrīla Prabhupāda saying Hare Kṛṣṇa to individual people) (Hindi) (break)
Guest (2) (Indian man): ...by working towards perfection in my duty...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that perfection is to please Kṛṣṇa. If by... You are doing everything. That's all right, but if by your working Kṛṣṇa is satisfied, then that working is perfect. If Kṛṣṇa is not satisfied, then it is useless, waste of time.
Prabhupāda: He has seen in the Jugantar Press.
Śyāmasundara: It was in the newspaper here in India. (laughter) She did! She read it one day for three hours, four hours.
Brahmānanda: You're kidding!
Prabhupāda: And the latest report is that Bhagavad-gītā is selling fifteen thousand copies per month in London. Who told me? Thirty-thousand copies sold in two months.
Śyāmasundara: It was MacMillan's biggest selling book in England.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That also you can inform her. And present her one copy.
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. One copy of Bhāgavata.
Śyāmasundara: I gave her one copy of...
Prabhupāda: Who arranged this meeting?
Śyāmasundara: Well, we did. We just went.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Prabhupāda: The Sarasvatī's given chance. Now he's, from very childhood, she's chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare...
Śyāmasundara: yes.
Prabhupāda: He's criticizing: "Mālatī, this old man is smoking." He's getting the saṁskāra from the childhood, as we got it from good father. Yes. So here is a chance. And that will not... It is not childish, Sarasvatī's chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. In London, she would finish sixteen rounds?
Śyāmasundara: Six.
Prabhupāda: Six. She was... Just see. She has got determination.
Śyāmasundara: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: And all the children. So that will not go in vain.
Śyāmasundara: No.
Prabhupāda: Never go in vain. This is her... She had executed devotional service in her past life. Therefore from the very beginning of her life, she's in association of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, very beginning. This is the chance. Now it is the duty of the father and mother, and when she grows up it is her duty to finish this business, go to back to home. This is chance. So where is the loss? Even she failed last life, then where is the loss? She's getting another chance, whereas the ordinary karmīs, they'll not get that chance. That is explained.
Sudāmā: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: Example is better than precept. Why you are living outside?
Sudāmā: Well, I...
Prabhupāda: (break) ...last time I was so much deteriorated in health, I had to leave this place. That does not mean I'll leave the Society. I went to India and recuperated. Or came to London. That's all right. So health may be sometimes... But that does not mean we shall give up the Society. If my health is unsuitable here, I go... I have a hundred centers. And you'll not go out of this universe for your health recouping. You have to remain within the universe. Then why do you go out of the Society? (break) ...Śrī Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura. We have to live with devotees. Why I left my family? Because they were not devotees. Therefore I come... Otherwise, in old age, I would have been comfortable. No. We should not live with the nondevotees, may be family men or anyone. Just like Mahārāja Vibhīṣaṇa. Because his brother was not devotee, he left him, left him. He came to Rāmacandra. Vibhīṣaṇa. You know that?
Sudāmā: Yes.
Hṛdayānanda: So Prabhupāda, it says that a sannyāsī should live alone. That means only with devotees.
Prabhupāda: Who...! Where it is said sannyāsī should live alone?
Hṛdayānanda: I mean, sometimes in your books.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Hṛdayānanda: Sometimes in your books. So that means with devotees.
Prabhupāda: In general, sannyāsī may live alone. But sannyāsī's duty is to preach.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, he also said, Prabhupāda, that "God, the heavenly father, who is greater than me, He has sent me here."
Prabhupāda: Yes, there is Bible. Yes. Here is. Practically nowadays there is no Christian. All heathens. Yes. Because they are... Therefore we are purchasing so many churches. And there are so many for sale. Nobody is going to. In London I have seen. Hundreds of churches are... some neighbor. Nobody goes. Only the churchtaker and the so-called one or two neighboring old women, that's all. So it is gone. Christian religion is now gone.
Yaśomatīnandana: Also, Prabhupāda, Christ never said himself that he's dying for their sins. But this is the later disciples of Christ, they claim that Christ has died for their sins.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā? This is the fact?
Prajāpati: That's fact, yes.
Prabhupāda: Just see how they are. They're saying so many things.
Bali Mardana: Cheaters. In Germany since they lost the war everyone has become atheists. In Germany, because they lost the war, they all became atheists.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prajāpati: But Haridāsa Ṭhākura, he had a serpent in his cave that he was not so much fearful of.
Prabhupāda: No, I said that, that sometimes, serpents are tame, friendly, everything, with jewel. But still they are fearful. Still, they are fearful. They cannot be trusted. A demon may be your friend, but you cannot trust him. Manina bhujitaḥ sarpa kim asau na bhayaṁkaraḥ. (?) Just like (laughing) your sky in the western world. However clear it may be, you cannot trust. At any moment there will be cloud. Is that all right?
Devotee: Especially in London.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I am therefore speaking, western world. So what is the London news, Jaya Hari? (break)
Prajāpati: ...in what sense is the First Canto His lotus feet?
Prabhupāda: Lotus feet because we worship Kṛṣṇa by worshiping the lotus feet first. We offer flower to the lotus feet. So one must go from First Canto to Second Canto, Third Canto, gradually make progress, not all of a sudden want to see how Kṛṣṇa is smiling. You see? That you cannot understand. So the sahajiyās, they go, immediately jump to the Kṛṣṇa's rāsa-līlā, without worshiping gradually. Therefore they misunderstand. (break) Just to understand Kṛṣṇa.
Prajāpati: But Kṛṣṇa's disappearance, about having a māyā body that He left behind. A māyā body. Is that anything to do with Māyāvādī?
Prabhupāda: Yes, Māyāvādī means those who are in māyā, those who are thinking Kṛṣṇa as one of the human beings, for them, to delude them, He left the body. But actually He departed in His own body. There is no question of... Here is another... But just like this is also, this material world... This is also Kṛṣṇa's body. But this is interesting to the Māyāvādīs, the so-called scientists, so-called philosophers. But it is not interesting to the devotees. They are thinking, "This is all." Is not that? The scientists, the philosophers, they are thinking, "This is all. There is nothing beyond this." This is illusion. This is only reflection of the reality.
Prabhupāda: Surajman. He is your family?
Guest (1): No, Birla's family. They are relatives... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...son and daughter-in-law.
Guest (1): Surajman's son?
Prabhupāda: Not here. In London. (break) ...nephew of Vamana(?).
Guest (1): Didi Birla's sister's son. That is Candra (indistinct). He is related to (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Is that the man who gave us a car? He is Candrakant?
Guest (1): Candrakant. You were taking their house?
Girirāja: Yes. Near Mahatma Gandhi Road.
Guest (1): Yes, that is Candrakant. In Calcutta, no?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Yes, there is also my student. (break) Now the government is so irresponsible. Just like in Nairobi, I was refused permission. You see. We spent so much money, and they did not inform before. And when I was on the airport... That also, no written order. They said, "From higher authorities it is the order that you cannot enter." Just see. Kenya. So at the present moment we have got many enemies of this movement. (Hindi) "You are converting these European and American into brāhmaṇa. How they can become brāhmaṇa without taking birth as brāhmaṇa?"
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: With car, there is a platform like this. It moves on the roof of the house. (laughter) (Hindi) Helicopter.
Guest (1): Helicopter.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (break) ...New York, goes to Los Angeles and then to Honolulu, then Tokyo, then Hong Kong, then New Delhi... No. Hong Kong to Bangkok, Bangkok to New Delhi, New Delhi to Karachi, Karachi to Beirut, then, I think, London, then again New York. One, one round. (Hindi) One round.
Guest (1): (Hindi) (break) (laughter)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (laughing) (break) Fifty crores.
Guest (1): Huh? More than that. (laughter) Why not?
Prabhupāda: Not fifty crores. Fifty-five lakhs.
Guest (1): Fifty-five lakhs. Oh.
Prabhupāda: This George Harrison, he came there.
Guest (1): George Harrison? He has donated in cash for that building?
Prabhupāda: Not that building.
Devotee: Eh?
Mr. Sar: Yesterday I talked about doctor.
Devotee: Oh, yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Dr. Patel: He comes from London, and he has received a telephone from him in London, when he was coming.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Dr. Patel: From, in London temple of Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes, many pilgrims are coming from London, all parts of western countries. Africa.
Dr. Patel: Caitanya Mahāprabhu's birthday.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So you all also come.
Dr. Patel: On, on,...
Prabhupāda: On the eighth.
Guest (1): The sixth of March.
Dr. Patel: That is on the day of Holita. Holi? No.
Prabhupāda: Holi, yes.
Dr. Patel: Māyāpur is in East Bengal?
Prabhupāda: No, West Bengal. Border of East and West. (break) What these gṛhasthas?
Dr. Patel: No, they are...
Guest (1): (indistinct)
Dr. Patel: We are not going there?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then, after Dvārakā, they are expecting us in Hyderabad by about the twenty... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām.
Prabhupāda: They're so regulated, as soon as the time is there, anywhere, they'll worship.
Guest (1): There was big trouble about them...
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guest (1): There was big trouble about them in London for some time.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Guest (1): Because they would leave their work and start praying.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Guest (1): Then the work was stopped, and later on, it was sorted out. They were allowed to do their worship.
Guest (2): (break) ...cultured under, say, very comfortable circumstances. This has a relation to constant inquiries from public, specially young men, at the entrance of our mandira, our, this building, these days. I was sort of doing, helping them for entrance and exit. In that course, many young people specially they asked, "How could people living in so much comfortable circumstances could hear and ask for bhakti."
Prabhupāda: Then does it mean that those who are...?
Guest (2): I, knew... Yes... Yes...?
Prabhupāda: Those who are in uncomfortable situation, they are big bhaktas? (laughter) Can you show me that because they're in uncomfortable situation, they have become big bhakta? Is that the proof? What is this land?
Bhavānanda: This land we were looking at a few days ago? You suggested purchasing it for grazing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is very nice. So it is possible?
Guest (2): Cash is different...
Prabhupāda: No, no. I mean to say, account computer. But they must tally with their daily balance.
Guest (2): Well, they put in the suspense. When they find out this mistake, that somebody pointed out, then they adjust it. So many times it has happened. But this computer system is not hundred per cent efficient.
Guest (1): One Indian girl, Śakuntalā, went to London and America and stay on (?) these computers. She was able to work out computer, one...
Guest (2): She challenged. She challenged.
Guest (2): Śakuntalā?
Guest (2): Śakuntalā, yes.
Prabhupāda: Some girl came to see me. She's little fatty, that girl?
Guest (2): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Oh, I think...
Guest (2): She printed a photo in the London papers also and challenged that "I can beat any computers in the western world." (break)
Guest (1): Under one high-court?
Prabhupāda: Under one high-court, yes.
Bhavānanda: I tell them that when they ask.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhavānanda: I say, "Why you are asking me that? You already know."
Prabhupāda: Rather, they are to give information. But this is a plea. Bhagavad-gītā is, was not made in London. (laughter) It was spoken in India. Why they are asking? That means they have become so rascal and fool they do not know what is Bhagavad-gītā, what is Caitanya Mahāprabhu? Their position is so low-graded now?
Guest (1): They do not like to learn it. They do not like to know it.
Prabhupāda: That's it. Is Bhagavad-gītā imported from London? Why do they ask like this? How much degraded they have become.
Guest (1): And our answers must be like this.
Prabhupāda: Yes. As if you are... They are importing knowledge from Lenin, these rascals, and they do not know what is Bhagavad-gītā. How much degraded they have become. Just see.
Prabhupāda: A child does not want to go to school, but it is the duty of the parent to send him to the school by some way or other. So that is government's duty, that a man should be employed according to his capacity. There should be no unemployment. That is very dangerous position of the society. Now this unemployment question is very strong all over the world. They'll plan that "This government is not good. That system is not good. He's not good." And he'll do nothing. He'll personally do nothing. Just like the hippies, they criticize everyone, but he'll not do anything. It is all... These descriptions are there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. We are going too far? Employed... (break) ...from the government to utilize this land. You see? So much. Everywhere you'll find. Everywhere you'll find. Who was with me in London?
Devotee: Yeah. Last time, last summer?
Prabhupāda: Letchmore Heath.
Devotee: Yeah?
Prabhupāda: So much, lying vacant. They have taken it into consideration that "What is the use of working in the land? Better kill one animal and eat easily." Because he doesn't care for sinful activities. The... "If I can eat the cow, why shall I take so much trouble to till the...?" This is going on, all over the world.
Indian man: Employment means now just to cut the money and not to work. No work.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) The same... Employment, even for the woman, the carakā. You see? Gandhi also studied this. There must be... Woman should be engaged for weaving. What is called?
Devotee: Spinning.
Prabhupāda: But what they have got to do?
Gupta: They are not doing...
Prabhupāda: Just like I have seen in London the Parliament. When they had some so-called empire... Now the Parliament is useless, useless. The Parliament members and the Lords, House of Lords, House of Commons, they are now useless. They have got some old books only. In Parliament. I have seen. Some old books. Old books means all the speeches are recorded in books. And who is going to read them? Almiras, so many... I have seen in Parliament. Hundreds and thousands of speeches recorded and bound up very nicely. Who is going to read them? Simply waste of time.
Gupta: They are increasing the load like this.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Argumentum baculam. Their logic is sword.
Guest: No, but what I say... The basic problem is that if the center is against, if the (indistinct) man, is against...
Prabhupāda: That I know that they are against.
Guest: If the (indistinct) men is against, therefore they are disclosing their weakness.
Prabhupāda: And indirectly, Indira Gandhi sometimes said that... Many politicians have said. In London, the high commissioner, he said, "Swamiji, your movement is so nice." He's a Maharastrian Pant. Pant. So... But we cannot do anything of this way.
Guest: No, but if the center is against, then my logic says...
Prabhupāda: Center is against.
Guest: If the center is against, then how they have given a permission Delhi?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guest: Then how we have got a permission in Delhi?
Prabhupāda: What is that permission?
Dr. Patel: I saw it. I saw you dancing also. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: Yes. And because I dance, therefore they dance.
Dr. Patel: But that was becoming in America, the last part of it?
Prabhupāda: No. It was in London. Deity installation.
Dr. Patel: He did it very well, the man who edited the film.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that Yaduvara. He is very good. Where is Yaduvara? He is here? No. His wife. Yes. She's also... Viśākhā. They are, husband and wife, both of them, very expert, photography.
Dr. Patel: I may now solicit one to the, to the māyā, that (Hindi) of the working this.
Prabhupāda: What is that? That is not māyā. (break?)
Dr. Patel: We are talking on that. Why don't they start it here?
Prabhupāda: No, no. Where are men?
Dr. Patel: I can get the men. Will you? No, just... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...yukta-vairāgyam ucyate. Anything which is favorable to our this being Kṛṣṇa conscious, we accept.
Dr. Patel: No, we don't want because of factory.
Prabhupāda: They are, they are doing that business not for any individual profit.
Prabhupāda: They are now introducing. Now, when it is introduced, they'll be accustomed. They'll drink day and night. Don't bother.
Dr. Patel: I have not got that experience. When I was a student in London, in London University, the boys there, they drink but not that much as they drink here. They are abusing it.
Prabhupāda: Every, every few steps there is a wine shop.
Dr. Patel: Now, every few steps, now you can have that in your own home. Here. You give the minister ten thousand rupees of bribes for a license to... (break) ...have in your home. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...these four things which we are prohibiting: illicit sex...
Dr. Patel: And drinking, meat-eating.
Prabhupāda: Yes, intoxication, meat-eating and gambling. So these four things are encouraged by the government. Gambling, that, what is that? Lottery.
Prabhupāda: ...the plan is to drive away the Gujaratis from Africa. (laughter) Yes. The Britishers are afraid. The Britishers are afraid that if the Indians, they are allowed to remain here, they will not be able to exploit the Africans.
Dr. Patel: All Indians and all Gujarati baniyas who settled in Africa, one and all are multi-millionaires.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...also.
Dr. Patel: But they have migrated to London now. They are very well... People from England, I mean, Africa, especially East Africa, Kenya and Uganda... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...their own house in London. Every Indian. (break) Englishmen, they haven't got their own house.
Dr. Patel: No, Englishmen are very much afraid of business with... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...former purchaser, they sell to the higher bidders.
Dr. Patel: Yes. Very cunning. Very cunning people.
Bhava-bhūti: I think there is some complaint also here in Maharastra, some plan not to give any more Gujaratis job. Just simply... (break)
Prabhupāda: That is good.
Dr. Patel: (Heavy wind noise) And then so many, they... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...clean. Although there is no machine.
Prabhupāda: You may mean something, but actually, that is not the meaning. That is the difference. You may mean something. The point is that you may follow. In the Vedas there are different ways, but you cannot decry the authority of the Vedas. That is the point.
Dr. Patel: The ideal Vaiṣṇava will not say this. The ideal Vaiṣṇava. Even Vedas say to kill an animal anytime, I won't. I won't kill it, I won't eat it. I'll not eat even in England as a student of London University-meat.
Prabhupāda: I'm recommending you to eat meat?
Dr. Patel: No, you eat the..., indirectly so.
Prabhupāda: All right.
Dr. Patel: I'm very sorry.
Prabhupāda: It is very difficult to talk with you. Therefore you cannot take any lesson.
Dr. Patel: No, I'm not taking this lesson, going to kill an animal to eat it. That lesson in no way I will take.
Prabhupāda: That is meant for others!
Prabhupāda: "Swami Narayan is better than Kṛṣṇa," then what they learn?
Indian man: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: In London they have got a branch, and they're chanting....
Indian man: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Swami Narayan. That is my objection. Why they are putting...
Indian man (2): "Swami Narayan, Swami Narayan, Swami Narayan." (laughs)
Prabhupāda: What is this thing? "Swami Narayan." Nārāyaṇa is there.
Indian man (4): Nārāyaṇa is there.
Indian man (2): Swami is their guru and Nārāyaṇa is God, so both, Prabhupāda and Kṛṣṇa, Prabhupāda and Kṛṣṇa, Prabhupāda Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: But that does not mean they should chant. Just like, we are not instructing our disciples to chant my name, "Bhaktivedanta Swami, Bhaktivedanta Swami..." No. They're chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hari-tvena samasta-śāstrair uktaḥ. Guru is respected as good as Kṛṣṇa, but that does not mean I shall teach them to go and chant my name, "Bhaktivedanta Swami, Bhaktivedanta Swami, Bhaktivedanta Swami." What is this?
We are teaching, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." Harer nāma, harer nāma... (CC Adi 17.21).
Indian man (3): Prabhupāda so much...
Prabhupāda: Because he, my disciple respects me as God, that does not mean I'll think I have become God.
Dr. Patel: Gandhiji was never asking anything, for medicine much.
Prabhupāda: No, that is another thing. I know these people, this Nehru family. They were completely Europeanized. Outwardly for them... Even up to the last point of his life, if some European would come, he would immediately receive him. And if an Indian wants to see him, "Oh, it will be..." You will have to wait at least one. Everything London-made is very good. That was Jawaharlal Nehru's idea.
Indian: That was absolutely opposing the Sardar Patel. Anything he wrote to another white skin, "All right, let him be." Lenin, we see, after all. Lenin.
Prabhupāda: That is also not good. But these people, they are svadeśi, for country, but I know them very well.
Dr. Patel: No, he was right up to the end very conscious about this. Because of his Oxfordian education. I think he was in eternal hell, one of these things.(?) (break)
Prabhupāda: England. He was educated in England, but who can become...
Dr. Patel: Absolutely. It was a miracle, the greatest miracle.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He was... From very beginning of his birth, he is Englishman.
Mahāṁsa: This śloka is... Where is that śloka, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: It is in the Tenth Canto. Bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padam. Just like this ocean, if it becomes a small pit, then don't require a big ship to cross over. You just... Like this. It can be reduced. By Kṛṣṇa's desire, it can be done so. Just like at the present moment... Formerly, people used to go to London from India, from Bombay, at least, in fifteen days. Now it doesn't take even fifteen hours. It takes only nine hours. How it has been reduced? Because there is a process to reduce. Similarly, the supreme spiritual process is like that. It can be reduced to any quantity. Aṇi... This is called aṇimā-siddhi. It can be expanded also, to the greatest length. Mahimā-śakti. All-powerful means not that "I cannot do, I cannot, I can do this only." No, anything He can do. That is all powerful. Aṇimā, laghimā, mahimā. Just like all these big, big planets, they are floating in the sky. This is called laghimā, weightless, no weight. Those who are going to the moon planet, they are finding out weightlessness. How it has become weightless? Such a big, huge... Just this planet. With so many seas and mountains and cities and buildings. But it is floating. That's a fact. It is floating like a swab. How it is floating? You can say something nonsense, but the actual fact is this.
Mahāṁsa: You give the example in Nectar of Devotion...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian Man (4): Our book is there in London, not Vivekananda.
Prabhupāda: Yes. His books are rejected.
Indian Man (1): No, he has written from the different point of view.
Prabhupāda: No why, what right? That is the...
Indian Man (1): You are putting your idea. That is a bad decision.
Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. Why you should put a different point of view? Just like Rādhākrishnan says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī: (BG 18.65) "It is not to Kṛṣṇa, the person." Just see, how much rascaldom. Kṛṣṇa says, "You become My devotee," and he interprets, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa, the person." Just see.
Indian Man: Kṛṣṇa says,"Surrender everything." That's all. And they say, "No..."
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says that "You surrender." He says, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa." Just see how much rascal he is. And if I say, then people will be angry. If I say, "rascal, rascal," then people will be angry.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is descriptive.
Girirāja: (reading) "And similar other evil spirits will cause persons to forget..."
Prabhupāda: Evil spirit everyone believes, every country. In London there are so many ghosts. When I was in John Lennon's house, so they complained, "In this one house, every night a ghost comes." You see? So I advised them "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. It will go away." Then it actually so happened.
Yaśomatīnandana: In many of our temple buildings also...
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, I have got experience. In our Calcutta house, there was ghost. In Lucknow when I started that laboratory in Mr. Bhattacarya's house in Vat-nagara(?), there was a ghost. I have practical experience. My servant...
Indian man (1): I have heard a few cases. You see. I was reported that they see in that house there was ghost, and he used to put clothes to fire and they have to run for water to extinguish it. Then I went and examined. He was a friend of mine. Then I ultimately detected that his own wife got hysterical and used to do all those things.
Prabhupāda: No, that is also possible. But...
Indian man (1): You see? So I discovered that there is no ghost, and I explained to them...
Prabhupāda: No, that is also possible. Sometimes we are misled. But ghosts, in every country, there are so many books, and especially it is mentioned in the Vedic literature also. Bhūta-preta-yoni. Bhūta-preta-yoni. That is described. Out of many forms of life, these bhūta-preta-yonis is also. Nana-yoni. Nana-yoni. There are different sources of birth. So bhūta-preta-yoni is also mentioned there, species of life. (break) Bhūta-preta is mentioned.
Prabhupāda: Hyderabad project. That he knows, Mahāṁśa.
Guest (9): What your goal, to plan Northern India? Your goal to plan Northern India? How long you will be staying and...?
Prabhupāda: No, I am going to see Bālajī. That's all. Bālajī.
Guest (9): And then go back to the States?
Prabhupāda: No. I will go to Europe and... I'll go to London, then to Paris, then Germany, then Sweden, then Switzerland. I have got temples there. In Germany we have got four temples. In Sweden we have got. In Switzerland we have got. France we have got. In England we have got four, five.
Guest (9): No government is placing obstacles?
Prabhupāda: No, they receive it very nicely. They understand that "Swamiji is doing something nice." Thank you very much.
Devotees: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda! (end)
Prabhupāda: America is a big place, three thousand miles, square miles. So I don't think any temple has been erected in New York.
Minister: No, it is proposed to.
Prabhupāda: Temple... Just like these Christian missionaries, they constructed so many churches. But those churches are now being closed. In London, I have got specific knowledge, hundreds of churches are no more being used as church. Some of them are being used as go-down. And some of the churches have been purchased by other religious sect. We have purchased one church in Los Angeles. So opening temple is good but who will maintain the spirit of temple worship?
Minister: That is by (Hindi).
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Therefore there must be side by side propaganda who can maintain the temples. (Hindi) Oh, this is anna-prasāda, so I will take later on. (Hindi) That temple is being constructed under whose supervision?
Minister: That Ganapati Sthapati, in our state.
Indian man: Sthapati is a temple engineer. He will lay out the plans as per the (indistinct) śāstra and as per the rules laid down for the construction all temples in India. No other (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: He has gone there? No.
Prabhupāda: Oh, local money.
Indian man: Yes. throughout India and also in America.
Prabhupāda: That, they are raising funds for millions of years. (laughs) I know that. Birla about... Yes, about fifty years ago there was contemplation of, that Birla would construct a very big temple in London. But there was no temple at all. Now since I have gone, I have established two temples, not very big, but still one of the temple is on the seventeen acre of land. A little outside London. One big musician, George Harrison, he has donated that temple, fifty-five lakhs. And we have got one temple in rented house...
Indian man: 10:30 for darśana.
Prabhupāda: 10:30. What is the time now?
Indian man: 9:30.
Prabhupāda: So, you prepare yourself to go. If prasāda is there, why don't you take it? Finish.
Mahāṁsa: We will take at noon time. We take now?
Prabhupāda: Yes, go and take. Prasāda prāpti-mātreṇa bhoktavyam. Go and take prasādam. It is time, one hour. (end)
Prabhupāda: Where did you stay in England?
Daughter: Liverpool.
Prabhupāda: Liverpool. I think we have got our branch.
Daughter: Manchester, I have seen, Manchester.
Prabhupāda: Manchester you have seen? Oh. Manchester, Liverpool, and London... London we have got two.
Indian man: London, in London I have got my son. My son is there.
Prabhupāda: Oh. What he is doing?
Indian man: He is employed there. He's an accountant, cost accountant.
Prabhupāda: Oh. So your children are also... (laughs)
Indian man: I have got another boy in West Germany.
Prabhupāda: West Germany. Berlin?
Indian man: No, he is in Frankfurt.
Prabhupāda: Frankfurt. Oh, yes. Frankfurt is a big city. Sons are all married?
Indian man: The last son is not married. Two sons are married. Three daughters are... This daughter is to be married. We are trying, not able to get a suitable groom, you see. With your blessings I hope we will succeed.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Nowadays it is very difficult job to get married. (everyone laughs)
Prabhupāda: Is it not miracle?
Satsvarūpa: Yes. Some of those devotees like Tripurari, a hundred big Bhāgavatams. It's not a popular book.
Prabhupāda: It is not popular actually. For the common man it is dry subject. And I have heard that after reading one book, somebody comes to purchase. "What is this, Bhāgavata?" "We have got six." "All right, give me six volumes." He is not a devotee. Why he purchases all the six volumes of Bhāgavatam? In London our Bhagavad-gītā As It Is was sold in two months, thirty thousand copies. That is the report. Thirty thousand copies.
Yadubara: Even though they don't understand the subject matter, they purchase.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. (break) Bon Mahārāja has written part of Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. And he published it before my coming to foreign countries.
Gargamuni: Yes. He has not sold any.
Prabhupāda: No, he has sold some, but still lying in the store. He published only one thousand copies. Our Nectar of Devotion, the translation of the same book, is selling like hotcakes. Yes. In the university, Temple University, they have made a textbook. And everywhere they like it, Nectar of Devotion. I think... What is our edition at the present moment? Fourth or Fifth edition. And we don't publish less than ten thousand copies. So we have to depend on Kṛṣṇa sincerely. Serve Him, everything, what is required, that will come, some way or other. That is miracle. Why should we try to cheat others, that "I can manufacture gold"? This rascal, if he can manufacture gold, then why he is doing himself business? That is simply jugglery. Even the magicians, they can do. They create so much money. But he is a poor man. Why he remains poor? And everyone thinks of us, that we have got unlimited wealth. You know that?
Prabhupāda:
- na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ
- durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ
- (SB 7.5.31)
They are captivated by the external energy. They think by material advancement they will make solution of all problems. That is not possible.
- andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās
- te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ
He does not know that he is bound up, hands and legs, by the laws of nature, and he is trying to solve it by his own method of material civilization. That is the mistake. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ, ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā (BG 3.27). They are all vimūḍhas, mūḍhas, duṣkṛtina, mūḍhas. (Hindi) (break) He asked me, "What is the conception of hell?" I said, "It is your London. By artificial way you have kept it as heaven. But otherwise, it is hell." So this was published.
Prabhupāda: Geneva is important town.
Devotee (2): Important, not very big though.
Prabhupāda: International town.
Devotee (2): Yes.
Prabhupāda: When I was going to London from Bombay..., no, no, when I was going to Switzerland, I think I stopped at Geneva.
Devotee (2): Zurich. You were in Zurich.
Prabhupāda: Zurich, before that I stopped at Geneva. I saw the airport, very big airport. Then I went to Zurich. And from Zurich I went to some Mount St....
Devotee (2): St. Hellish.
Prabhupāda: You have been there? You are right, St. Hellish. (unclear)
Devotee (2): (laughs) Śyāmasundara.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Śyāmasundara, "Oh, I have to..." He spent money for that. I thought "It is hellish." (laughter) Always covered with snow, I could not get out. Two days I was imprisoned in that hotel room. But people go there.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. How are you?
Woman: Very well, thank you.
O'Grady: We are very well and very tired. We've been traveling a long, long way, a long road from Delhi.
Dhanañjaya: Desmond is a poet. He's written books also, published in London. And tomorrow he goes to Sicily to a convention of poets and writers, international conference for writers and poets. He's representing Ireland, he's coming from Limerick in Southern Ireland.
O'Grady: This is my friend, Michael Robert (indistinct) We are colleagues together since we teach literature, English literature. And this is another friend of ours who has just come from Greece. Everybody seems to be traveling within the last twenty-four hours. This is a young painter friend of mine, Bob Jackson, also from Ireland, whose first time in Italy, out of Ireland, and he's staying with me at the moment. He came back with me from Ireland just a few weeks ago.
Prabhupāda: We are also writing books, so many. You have seen our books?
O'Grady: I have seen some, yes, because some of the friends have come up and...
Prabhupāda: Some of the books, you can show him. Here is one book, Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they have fifth edition within two years. Five editions.
O'Grady: Five editions in two years.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And each time they print fifty thousand books.
O'Grady: This new printing.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. In London about few months ago we got report they sold thirty thousand copies in two months.
O'Grady: Thirty thousand.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Woman: In which country of Europe has the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement been the most powerful or successful?
Prabhupāda: Everywhere.
Woman: Every one?
Prabhupāda: Everywhere, yes. In Africa, in America, in Canada, in Japan, in China. Most successful in America. Most successful-many men have taken to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Woman: There's no way that this movement could be very successful in Athens or in Greece. Not too many things are successful in Greece.
Prabhupāda: Yes, when I was going to Nairobi from London I got down, transit, on the hall. Some young men, as soon as they saw me, they began to chant, Hare Kṛṣṇa.
O'Grady: No, really? In Greece, this was, in Athens?
Prabhupāda: Athens, yes.
O'Grady: Incredible. What about in Rome? What kind of... Do you think they're going... Well, they're asking about problems with the police and getting (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: That problem is everywhere.
O'Grady: Everywhere.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Police sometimes harass us, and they become later on tired and do not do anything. (chuckles) Arresting, arresting, they become tired.
O'Grady: They become tired.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dhanañjaya: In fact, the word "London" is coming from the Latin word londonium. Londonium was a small fishing fort that the Roman's founded on the Thames.
Prabhupāda: Oh. You are not sufficiently covered.
Satsvarūpa: I'm all right.
Prabhupāda: No, you are not all right. (pause) (break) Indian civilization is that they constructed big, big buildings, but for God, Kṛṣṇa, temple. And for the people, they were satisfied in small villages. So far the temples are concerned, South Indian temple, wonderful temple. (aside:) Not so near. Mostly Viṣṇu temple. We shall go this side?
Dhanañjaya: Yes.
Prabhupāda: In Tokyo there is a park, this sound was there. (sound of birds chirping) Cement, no?
Dhanañjaya: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And fish combined.
Dhanañjaya: Yes, seahorse. Did such an animal exist, seahorse? Or is this man's imagination?
Prabhupāda: No, seahorse we have heard, there is. Sea elephant, seahorse, there are.
Prabhupāda: Paris?
Satsvarūpa: It's sunny.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Sunnier than London. Very close to London.
Dhanañjaya: Not cold like London ever.
Prabhupāda: There is snow. (break) ...and Darjeeling. (break)
Atreya Ṛṣi: Anthropomorphic.
Prabhupāda: Anthropomorphic. That means man worship.
Satsvarūpa: They deify a man. He's a man but the people make him as a god.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Satsvarūpa: They say that about Kṛṣṇa, that Kṛṣṇa was a man, and then later His followers deified Him. That man wrote that in that pamphlet, Dr. Bannerjee, in Delhi.
Prabhupāda: Oh, he has said like that? Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā manuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). So why they do not deify others? Only Kṛṣṇa. There were many big, big men. All the Pāṇḍavas were very big men. Kṛṣṇa was contemporate to the Pāṇḍavas. Why Kṛṣṇa was picked up, and not the Pāṇḍavas? What is the reason?
Yogeśvara: The Pāṇḍavas were the devotees of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No, no. This Anthropomorphism cannot be applied.
Prabhupāda: Well, Chamberlain may tried, might have tried to stop the war, but he could not stop the cause of the war. So far we know that the two wars started by Germany on account of Britain. So far I have studied. The German people did not like the Britishers to occupy the trade all over the world. And wherever they went to trade, they were restricting. I know this fact. In India the Britishers monopolized all trade, and they would not allow German goods to come in. So that was the cause of the war. The German knew that the Britishers, they are purchasing from Germany and stamping it "Made in London" and selling in India at high price. And when the Germans go there, they are not allowed to enter. This is the cause of the war. The Germans still, they do not like to speak in English. They are so envious. So Chamberlain might have tried to stop war, but his nation created the cause of the war. Why there should be... That was the demand, that free trade. Germans, in the, what is called, peace negotiation, their demand was free trade. Everyone... And that is very good. Why trade should be... This is unnatural. Let there be free trade. General public, they want best thing at good price, at cheap price. So if Japan and Germany can supply goods, necessary goods, at cheaper price, why they should be restricted? Let the people take advantage of it.
Prabhupāda: Many countries... Especially we are Indian. We have seen in India. Nowadays there is no eatables. The government cannot supply food, failure, the problem which is not even amongst the beasts and birds. The birds and beasts, they have no such problem. They are freely living, jumping from one tree to another, because they know there is no problem of eating. And human society, there is problem of eating. What is the advancement? And there is enough place for producing food. I have seen Africa, Australia. Enough place. If the foodstuff is produced there, ten times of the population can be well fed. But they are: "Don't enter. Don't come here." The Africans will say to the Indians, "Don't come here. Go out." What is this? Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice. We say, "Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. We are all sons of Kṛṣṇa. Let us live peacefully and utilize Kṛṣṇa's property." This is the best philosophy. But the so-called politicians and leaders, they are saying "No, you cannot enter here," immigration. America has got enough place to produce food. But they will, although they have gone to the United Nation, UNESCO, they could not find out any solution. Although there is possibility of producing ten times of the requisites of the whole population of the world, they will not allow. They will not allow. On God's side, this unit, this planet, pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation)—everything is complete. You require water. They save three times water than the land. And the water is distributed over the land, parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ so there will be sufficient food grains. And annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). And if there is sufficient to eat, have sufficient eatables to the animals and to the men, then everything is prosperous. So where is that arrangement? There is enough land, enough possibility, enough water. Now utilize them and produce food grain, eat nicely and live peacefully and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and go back to home, back to Godhead. This is our philosophy. Why there should be industry? You want to eat after all. Instead of eating this flesh, killing poor animals, why don't you produce food grains, fruits, flowers, food grain, and take milk from the animals and produce milk products, all nutritious food, all nice food, and be happy and remember God for His kindness. This is civilization. What is this nonsense civilization? Now there is petrol problem. I see so many buses, and not a single man, one or two men. And for two men a big huge bus is being run, and so much petrol is consumed unnecessarily. I have seen. I went from Nairobi to London in a plane—only five passengers. Out of that, four passengers we were. Why? Why this nonsense? And there is petrol problem now. They are creating simply, the so-called advancement of civilization, creating problems, that's all. And that is due to these rascal leaders. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). They do not know what is the ideal of life, what is the aim of life. They are creating hodge-podge civilization and putting the mass of people in chaotic condition. This is the sum and substance. I do not know whether you'll agreed with me, but this is my study of the whole situation.
Prabhupāda: Ah, mad-bhāvam āgatāḥ. Mad-bhāvam, "My nature." "My nature" means spiritual nature. Kṛṣṇa is spirit. Or the another nature. This is material nature. This is another nature. That is kingdom of God, spiritual nature, Vaikuṇṭha planet. Āgatāḥ: "They came." Every information is there, every opportunity is there. Simply they are not educated. Therefore the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for educating these rascals. That's all. They are mad after sense gratification. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ, mad. From the morning, as soon as they rise, "Give me a cup of tea, immediately I have to go to there and there and there." What you will do then? "Yes, I will die. I will die in a motor accident. They are waiting for me." All right, go. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). All kinds of forbidden works they are doing. What? What is the purpose? Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaye. Purpose is only sense gratification. The rascal does not know that "I am doing all these sinful activities for sense gratification, and I will have to accept a very low-grade body." That he does not know. He has already got one low-grade body. He is suffering only. And he will still get another low-grade body, more suffering. That he does not know. But still, he will do everything for sense gratification. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti na sādhu manye: (SB 5.5.4) "Oh, it is not good." Na sādhu manye yata ātmano' yam: "This kind of activities will cover your soul by body." "Well, this body is temporary. Don't bother." Then another body, rascal. This body is temporary, but you get another body, most abominable. Why you are doing like this? Asann api. Although this body is temporary, but why don't you understand that it is kleśada: It is always subjected to miserable condition of material life. Kleśada. This is kleśada, another body you get, kleśada. Any body you get, kleśada. Why do you get this? Stop these activities. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That they do not know. Da means "that gives." Any type of material body you accept will be kleśada. They have constructed this building. If for few hours there is severe cold, so many people will die, even in this comfortable building. Is it not? So kleśada is there; either you remain in this way or that way, the sufferings will be there. And to take this comfort of this high building, how much kleśada, how much miserable condition, one has to pass. "Sir, I am not doing; the workers are doing." But you have to collect the money to pay them. How much miserable it is to acquire this money to pay another kleśada, laborer. So simply they are captivated by money. Otherwise it is kleśada. Sometimes they fall down and die while constructing. Is it not? Now, I have heard that in New York there are many buildings and there is no tenant. Kleśada. The proprietor of the house, he is also suffering. "I have spent so much money. No tenant." In London I have seen there is, for the last six or seven years, very big building. It is vacant.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Bhagavān: Let Śrīla Prabhupāda...
Prabhupāda: It is very, very difficult for them. To give up intoxication, especially in the western countries. That Lord Zetland, Marquis of Zetland, when one of my godbrothers went to London for preaching, so Lord Zetland said, "Can you make me a brāhmaṇa?" And then he said, "Yes, why not? You have to give up these things: no illicit sex, no intoxication." He said, "Oh, it is impossible. For us, it is impossible." So actually, these four prohibitory rules is impossible for these rascals.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: They would rather die than give them up, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the... Even our men, after so much training, they're also falling down. It is so difficult thing. Actually, it is the most difficult thing.
Bhagavān: Is the path down at the lake very big?
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa...
Bhagavān: Would you like to walk down by the lake or is this...?
Prabhupāda: No, no. It is all right. In India, also, although they are vegetarian, they cannot give up smoking even beedie. They cannot give up chewing pan. You see? This is very difficult task. I was thinking when I first came that as soon as I propose these things, because I have got experience that Lord Zetland said, "It is impossible," what they, they'll accept? And I'll have to go back again. But I did not make any compromise. Just like other rascal yogis and swamis, they say, "Yes, yes. You can eat whatever you like. You can do whatever... You practice nose pressing. That's all. And give me my fees. Then you'll (indistinct)." This is not possible.
Yogeśvara: He says then that's very serious because if you have no problems, that means you are trying to escape from the world because the world is full of problems.
Prabhupāda: We are in the Paris City. How we have escaped from the world? (laughter) We have got branches in London, in Paris in New York and big, big cities, and all these boys are coming from big, big cities. How they have escaped? It is not justice. If he says that "They have escaped," that is wrong statement. We are not escaping anything. (French)
Bhagavān: What kind of proof are you looking for? Let's talk about proof. What kind of proof are you looking for? (French)
Prabhupāda: Now, another point is he's accusing us that we're escaping. Why he's escaping Kṛṣṇa consciousness? (French)
Yogeśvara: He says he thinks that what we're doing is simply a kind of medicine that doesn't actually resolve the problems that people are facing.
Prabhupāda: If it is not result, then how this boy says, "We have no problem"? The patient says that he is cured, and you say that it is not curing? (French)
Bhagavān: Once last year a man in London, a professor in a religious school, said the same thing, and you said that according to our Vedic philosophy, if a teacher doesn't know something, he should step down. And His answer was, "I can't do that." (Prabhupāda chuckles)
Paramahaṁsa: It seems amazing that such fundamental questions, they remain mute, such people like this, who are supposed to be qualified to bring other people out of their distress.
Karandhara: That's why the church now has lost everyone, because even its leaders are saying, "I don't know anything. I'm just fumbling around like everyone else. I don't really know anything definite."
Prabhupāda: Still, he is leader?
Karandhara: Yes.
Bhagavān: We have this festival in very big, in the same scale, in Australia, London, San Francisco, Chicago.
Prabhupāda: Where is that poster? Australia? Yes.
Bhagavān: And in all these cities we are joined... In San Francisco there are ten thousand people who come at least every year to help pull the carts and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: In Chicago also. Philadelphia. There will be Ratha-yātrā. this is the...
Satsvarūpa: This is for Melbourne, Australia, Ratha-yātrā parade, (shows a poster), picture of the parade last year.
Professor La Combe: Last year.
Prabhupāda: No, this year they are advertising.
Professor La Combe: Which is to come.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Satsvarūpa: This is a poster that Haṁsadūta sent for Frankfurt for next week.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. This is German language.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In paper I saw. (French)
French Woman: But we are not under historical literally. We try to speak of mystical experience. This is exactly the subject of, that we did. We cannot discuss history because everybody has his own documentation.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So I was very much pleased because I was very sorry that Jesus Christ was crucified. But when I heard this historical discovery, I was very satisfied. But one thing is that... Here, at least, in London, I have seen. There are so many churches vacant. (French)
Yogeśvara: He says he was at your conference, last night and he was there when you described how human life is meant for knowing God. So now he wishes to ask you a question: What is our process for coming to know God?
Prabhupāda: That is very simple. It is not at all difficult. Just like in your body, you are, the soul, important active principle... (to Jyotirmayī:) Explain. (French) Similarly, this huge, gigantic, cosmic manifestation must have some active principle. That is God. So where is the difficulty to understand God? (French)
Yogeśvara: For example, in our prayers, in our studies, what is our...
Prabhupāda: Now first of all, let us understand what is God. Then prayer. If you do not understand God, then what you'll prayer? If we understand that there is the active principle, then the prayer we have already described, janmādy asya yataḥ anvayāt itarataś cārtheṣu abhijñaḥ: (SB 1.1.1) "I pray to the Supreme Personality of Godhead Vāsudeva who is the origin of all creation." This is the active principle. There is. So... And how He is working? (To Jyotirmayī:) You have to explain. (French) In the beginning of Bhāgavatam, I offering the prayer. So the process is that I offer my all respect to the Absolute Truth, Supreme Truth, from whom the creation has taken place, everything is resting, working nicely, and after annihilation, it will go there. And when you study what is the nature of the original source, it is said, abhijñaḥ, cognizant. He knows everything.
Prabhupāda: That's all. (break) ...samudvigna, always full of anxiety. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām. Intelligence is always absorbed: "Enemy may not come. Let me discover this, discover this atom bomb. This will save me. This will save me." This is their position. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt (SB 7.5.5). Why this anxiety? Because they have accepted something false as truth. Asad-grahāt. They have accepted sense gratification is the truth. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhuḥ. Indriyāṇi means senses. Parā, supreme. This is supreme. And then, if somebody is little advanced, indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ. Then the mental speculators, psychologists, philosophers, another, better class of rascals... This is the third-class rascal, and they are second-class rascal. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ, manasas tu parā buddhiḥ (BG 3.42). Then the intelligent class. They consider, "What is this nonsense? They are all suffering here." In this way, one who becomes actually intelligent, wise, then he understands, "Kṛṣṇa is everything." Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). So that highest position we are giving by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are not training them to be first-class fools, second-class fools, third-class... No. First-class intelligent. Kṛṣṇa yei bhaje sei baḍa catura. Without being first-class, intelligent man, nobody can take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness (break) ...drink everything. And why they fight? What is the cause? Suppose father gives all necessities of life to the children. Why they should fight? Simply ignorance and foolishness. That's all. Where is the cause of fighting? Just like Pāṇḍavas, to settle up their misunderstanding, Kṛṣṇa said, "All right, they are kṣatriyas, They cannot take up the occupation of vaiśya or śūdra. Give them five villages so that they'll be happy. They'll rule over, each one on the village." "No, Sir. Not a piece of land holding the tip of the needle can be spared without fighting." This is the world. The German, German war, First World War, what was the cause? The cause was that the Britishers will not allow the Germans to trade all over the world. They captured everything. And they'll purchase from Germany goods and cheat people...,
Haṁsadūta: And sell...
Prabhupāda: ..."Made in London," and sell it fifteen times higher than the Germans. This was their business. And that was the cause of... Is it not? Those who have studied history... This is the cause. So all this nonsense thing can be solved if we take it: "This is Kṛṣṇa's property." And if you know something, you are manufac..., that's all right. You do it. I do something else. Or even if I do it, where is the cause of fighting? Because they do not know what is Kṛṣṇa. (end)
Pater Emmanuel: On my part, I...
Prabhupāda: No, no, we are talking with you. You are a representative of Christian kind. So instead of keeping the churches locked up, why not give it us? We shall chant twenty-four hours. Actually this is fact. Many places we have purchased churches. And before our purchasing, the church was practically locked up. Nobody was going. And because nobody was going, therefore it was available for purchase. In London I have seen. Hundreds and thousands of churches are locked up, or they are being used for different purpose. There are many hundreds and thousands churches, but they are not going on. So this experience... In Los Angeles we purchased one church. So it was sold because people were not coming. Now you go to the same church, and the same men, they are coming by thousands. And one Christian preach in Boston, he issued one leaflet that "These boys are our boys. Before accepting this movement, they were never coming to the church. They never inquired about God. And now they are mad after God. How it has happened?" Yesterday the inquiry was "Why the Americans and the Germans are taking to this path?"
Prabhupāda: No, no more.
Cāru: Not any more.
Prabhupāda: But I know, all educated and advanced educated Englishmen, they were coming to Australia for good job. Therefore most of the technical posts, they are occupied by Indians in London. As soon as one is highly qualified medical man, he comes to Australia. So who will take care of them? So therefore they imported some brain from India. Anyway, our time should be saved for self-realization. That is perfect civilization. And not for creating unnecessary necessity of life. That will increase problem. So scientists, they disagreed or agreed with us?
Madhudviṣa: They did not want to get... They did not want to...
Prabhupāda: But they could not answer "Who is the manufacturer of the brain of the scientist?" That they could not.
Prabhupāda: That is the... It is actually rational discrimination. The Christians, they thought, "Now these Englishmen, they'll make Hindu religion very prominent." Because it is a fact. If we introduce such three-four celebrations, then Christianity will be finished. But what is there? Christianity, there is nothing. Simply some dry words. And actually, they're seeing, nobody's coming to the church. So in this way, if they some, relish something better, then whatever is there, that will be finished, also. Therefore in London we wanted to purchase a church.
Bali Mardana: A big cathedral.
Prabhupāda: Ah. And they said, "We shall burn it down; still, we shall not give to Bhaktivedanta Swami." They said like that.
Bahulāśva: Rascals.
Prabhupāda: "We shall burn it down." They are seeing practically. After all, they are businessmen. "Shopkeeper's nation." They see practically that if such kind of movements go on... People are already, have no interest in the church. In Chicago, they wrote "American Hindus." They wrote in the paper. Then Hindu, Hindu religion will be prominent.
| Page Title: | London (Conversations 1973 - 1974) |
| Compiler: | Jahnu, Mayapur |
| Created: | 29 of Dec, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=98, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 98 |