Expressions researched:
"London"
|"London's"
|"Londoners"
|"Londonium"
|"Londons"
Interviewer: I think the first question is kind of basic, is why is everything always taped at all the...
Prabhupāda: Because we have got so many branches, they want to hear me, my singing, my speech, therefore they record it and send it to different branches. We have got thirteen, fourteen branches: one in New York, one in San Francisco, Los Angeles, Buffalo, Boston, Montreal, Vancouver, London, Hamburg. We have got so many branches.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I am an ordained minister for preaching these missionary activities. So I came here in September, 1965. Then, for one year, I was traveling in many parts of your country. In the beginning I was in Pennsylvania, Pittsburgh, and then I went to Philadelphia. Then I came to New York. And in this way I was traveling, not very much. And in 1966, in July 1st, I started my class in New York at 26 Second Avenue. That is my first starting. Then the younger generation began to come to me, and they started the San Francisco branch, Montreal branch. In this way the institution is going. And we have sent our students to Europe also. They have already started one branch in London, one in Hamburg. And we have sent our students in Honolulu. They have started a branch there. So our program is to start several..., as many branches as possible to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And it is very easy. We simply invite persons to come and chant with us. It doesn't matter what he is, what is his language, what is his religion. We don't take into account all these things. And this Hare Kṛṣṇa is so easy to utter, that any man can utter. That we have experienced. Any part of the world, we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and they can very easily imitate and chant. Even child, they also. So by chanting, he gradually becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious. His heart becomes cleansed and he can understand what is science of Kṛṣṇa, what is science of God. Then he automatically offers himself for initiation. Then we initiate him and guide him in different ways. But our students are strictly forbidden to have illicit sex life or meat-eating or intoxication or gambling. These four things are strictly forbidden for our students. And they take it seriously. We get our... In your country boys and girls, they live as friend. I don't allow that. If there is such friendship, I immediately ask them, if they become my student, I immediately ask them to be married. And this experiment has proved very successful. I got these young boys and girls married, and they are very happily living, and husband and wife, they are preaching. All my students in London—there are six boys and girls—they were married by me, and they are doing very nicely.
Prabhupāda: So you can arrange like that. Can you?
Pradyumna: I was thinking if there would be in the Royal Asiatic Society in London. I think Ṭhākura Bhaktivinoda was a member of that also? Is that the same one?
Prabhupāda: Where is Ṭhākura Bhaktivinoda now?
Pradyumna: No, but there would be some people there, to open correspondence with them, and they might be interested in sponsoring you.
Prabhupāda: It is not... It is more difficult.(?) (Prabhupāda is taking prasādam) (pause) Is there anything about Kṛṣṇa in Vivekananda's speech?
Pradyumna: I wasn't reading his speeches. I wanted to see how he worked things. I know he's a rascal.
Prabhupāda: So you can give me a little milk and finish business. (pause) (devotees offer obeisances) All glories to the assembled devotees.
Prabhupāda: I am imperfect. That's all right. But I know what is perfection.
Guest (1): I cannot see that. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: No. Don't laugh. Suppose you are here. You have to go to London. If you have purchased the ticket for London and if you are sure that you have got an aeroplane, so even you have not gone to reach London, but you are sure that you are going to London.
Guest (1): Yes. I can be sure. I understand that, that you are sure. I have no doubt about that. But how can your security...
Prabhupāda: No, no, if I have understood that my destination is London—I am going to London—then if I feel secure, that is my happiness.
Guest (1): So you are completely happy.
Prabhupāda: Yes, because I know, "If I go to London, I will be happy." So I am going there, therefore I am happy.
Guest (1): But you're not in London yet.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. I have already told you. That very purchase of ticket and the understanding that you are surely going to London, that is happiness.
Guest (1): But then there is no searching.
Prabhupāda: So what is that? If my destination is London, why there is searching? There is no use of searching.
Guest (1): Well, then why a conference with men of other religions?
Prabhupāda: No, that conference is to consult together that London is the destination.
Guest (1): But then you know of a destination.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (1): But the idea that you have behind your mind, is to tell other people where the destination is, not to search for it with them.
Prabhupāda: No, I don't say search. I have already searched out.
Prabhupāda: Why not conference? If I have got some good news to tell you, is it not conference?
Guest (2): Swamiji, I think the objective will be... As far as you are concerned, it will be London. As far as I am concerned, it may be Paris or Hawaii.
Prabhupāda: No, then that is not... No, that is not. Hawaii... Then we have to consider where real happiness, whether it is in Hawaii or in Paris or in...
Guest (2): True. But then you are not going to a country that it is not London. And if I say I am not going to...
Prabhupāda: That is going on. That is going on. There are innumerable planets, and in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, yānti deva-vratā devān pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ (BG 9.25). Now, if you think that London is not good for you, Paris is good for you, it is good for you.
Guest (3): Well, then the whole conference becomes useless.
Prabhupāda: No. If you don't agree that which is the..., or do not understand what is the highest goal, then conference is useless. If you keep yourself to the understanding where you are, then there is no need of conference.
Guest (1): That is the same thing...
Prabhupāda: No, not exactly the same thing. That is the conference—I want to convince you that London is the real place of happiness.
Guest (4): If you go to London, I want to go to India, and then we shall be separated. So we must all go both to London and India.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I say that first of all we have to decide where to go. If anyone is satisfied that "I am satisfied with going to London or going to Paris..."
Guest (4): But that is the question. Where should we go? If you believe you must go to London, I believe very strongly I must go to India, and I am convinced that to me India is London...
Prabhupāda: No. As you are convinced that going to India is good for you, similarly, you must change your conviction also, that going to London is also nice.
Guest (4): Yes. But so may you also change your conviction.
Prabhupāda: I may... Yes, if you can convince me. Therefore conference...
Guest (4): If you believe that you cannot be convinced...
Prabhupāda: No. I believe you can convince me. If we are reasonable...
Guest (4): But then you are searching.
Prabhupāda: What? No. My searching is complete. I...
Guest (4): But then I cannot convince you of anything.
Prabhupāda: Your child is very nice. It does not cry. (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare. So your starting is very nice.
Śyāmasundara: What?
Prabhupāda: Your starting London yātrā is very nice, beginning. Now you practice, all.
Haṁsadūta: Together?
Prabhupāda: Yes, every morning, and just make systematic so that it becomes very nice. And at least twelve heads. So you are husband wife. How many pairs? Six? Or five? Come. And you are also going? Eh? London? I ask you, Annapūrṇa.
Annapūrṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Eh? You want to go with them or you want to go separately?
Child: I would like to go with Annapūrṇa.
Prabhupāda: Oh. That's all right. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (devotees chant japa) All right. Oh, it is too little. The plate is not yet full. Give me one spoon. Himāvatī?
Himāvatī: Yes?
Prabhupāda: You can give two rabris (milk sweet).
Interviewer: Could you describe your temple to me?
Prabhupāda: At the present moment, we have got fourteen temples: New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Santa Fe, Buffalo, Boston, and Montreal, and Seattle, and one in New Vrindaban. We have purchased about 130 acres of land and developing there, New Vrindaban. And we have got now a temple in London, in Germany, Berlin. And we are in negotiation with Florida friends and we have sent one of our representative in Hawaii. So we have got so many temples. Gradually it is increasing. And boys and girls, especially younger generation... My, amongst my disciples, the oldest disciple is thirty-five years old. Otherwise they are between twenty to twenty-five.
Interviewer: How do you account for most of your disciples being so young that is, right after university age, and what have your inroads been here in Seattle during the month that you have been here?
Prabhupāda: I have come here for the last ten days only. And at least two or three is already converted (in) Seattle. Yes. I want to see the youngsters in your country to be happy. Everyone wants that, but not only in your country, I want to see everywhere. Because that is the duty of every human being, to give information of highest happiness. That is the duty of every human being. The animal propensity is to exploit others. And human propensity should be to do good to others. That is the difference between animal propensity and human propensity. So here is a nice thing, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why should you not distribute? Especially in your country where there is great need for it? They are not after economic development. They have seen much of economic development. Now it is time for them to take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness and they will be happy. That is my mission.
Prabhupāda: Nice if she does not marry, that's nice. Anyone who has got children, he should not marry, I think so. Because marriage means not for sense gratification. Putrāyate kriyate bhāryā, putra-piṇḍa-prayojanam. To get nice son, that is the idea of marriage. Not for sense gratification. Those who are after sense gratification, according to Vedic scripture, they are, I mean to say, recommended to go to the prostitute. Therefore in Hindu society, still, there is a prostitute class. They are allowed... They do not allow it within the society. I mean to say, extravagant sex life. Especially spiritual life. Spiritual life means gradually forget sex life. Material life means sex life. In the spiritual world there is no sex life because there is no birth, there is no death. That is stated in Bhāgavata. Although the women are very, very beautiful, many thousand times more beautiful than here... Their stature of body, their everything, youthfulness, everything. But still they are so much engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, in chanting the glories, that they are not, I mean to say, influenced by the lust. That is stated in Śrīmad-Bhāgavata, in the Vaikuṇṭha. There are women. They also, men and women there is, and they also go by airplane, fly in the sky for trip, and all of them are devotees to Nārāyaṇa, Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa associate. So these things are described. So similarly, amongst the gopīs also. So in the spiritual life there is nothing like this sex pleasure. And the more we forget sex life, that means we are advancing in spiritual life. So this should be the attitude, that women, Godsisters, they should be nicely treated so that they may not feel any... After all, they are weaker. That should be our policy. Anyway... And if somebody agrees to marry, oh, that is welcome. There is no objection. Marriage is allowed. And so many married couples, they are very nicely living. Those who have gone to London, they were not married in the beginning, and I got them married. Similarly, here also, Harṣarāṇī and others. In New York also, Balāi dāsī, Advaita. So if the boy and girl agrees to marry, it is very nice. There is no objection. If not, they should be given all protection. Is that all right?
Journalist: One hundred.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In different branches. I have got about thirteen branches. Some of the disciples are working in London. Yes, they are doing very nice. They are all married couples. I got them married. Yes. I got them married. They're young boys, all within thirty. My oldest disciple he is 28. Otherwise 25, 24. At most 30. And similarly, girls, you have seen this girl. You see. So I get them, make them happy in married life. Their mentality is... They are not after so-called puffed-up life. They can live very simply with the least demand of bodily necessities, but thinking very high of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So I am very hopeful that even I die... Because I am old man, 73 years old. I may die at any moment. But I am now assured my movement will go on. These boys will carry it. That, my mission, is in that way successful. I came here with this idea, that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement should be started from America. Because anything accepted by America, people follow because America is considered to be the... Actually America is not a poverty-stricken country. So they can very easily understand, they can take it. And there are many confused youths. So with all these considerations, I came here, and I think I'm successful, yes.
Journalist: How many temples are there?
Prabhupāda: We have got thirteen temples. Thirteen. One in this Los Angeles, one San Francisco, one in New York, one Santa Fe, one Buffalo, one Boston, one Montreal, one Vancouver, and Seattle, Columbus, and then London, Hamburg, in this way... Hawaii.
Journalist: Well, there's got to be more than a hundred people in thirteen temples.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, more than a hundred, yes. About a...
Hayagrīva: I don't know.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I have got list. There are more than hundred.
Hayagrīva: Must be at least because that would only be an average of ten per temple.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Here we have got about twenty heads in this temple.
Journalist: About twenty. Where does the money come from to print Godhead?
Prabhupāda: God sends. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: (aside:) (Bengali)
Allen Ginsberg: Namaste. (to Indian lady)
Prabhupāda: She is a Bengali lady recently come from London.
Allen Ginsberg: Ahh!
Prabhupāda: Lekha. (Bengali)
Indian Lady: (Bengali)
Prabhupāda: (Bengali)
Allen Ginsberg: So, as the Kali-yuga became more intense and as attachment became deeper and more confusing...
Prabhupāda: Attachment for?
Allen Ginsberg: ...that salvation would also have to become easier and easier in the Kali-yuga.
Prabhupāda: That is very nice statement that in the Kali-yuga salvation is very easier. That is the version of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also, but that process is this kīrtana, not LSD.
Prabhupāda: Śrīmataji?
Allen Ginsberg: Śrīmata Kṛṣṇaji in Vṛndāvana, is a lady in Vṛndāvana who translates Kabir into English, compared him with Blake.
Prabhupāda: No, she is different. I know one Mātājī. She came to see me from Vṛndāvana in Los Angeles. She's in London.
Allen Ginsberg: So I have been learning to notate music, in..., singing songs by William Blake which I've written a little music to. So those are, in a way, my guru's songs.
Prabhupāda: I can give you so many songs. (laughter) Just like he can read it.
Allen Ginsberg: Are there many songs in there?
Prabhupāda: Not there. There is diacritic mark. Can you read it?
Allen Ginsberg: No. I don't think.
Prabhupāda: This, Nitāi-pada...
Allen Ginsberg: Nitāi-pada-kamala koṭi candra suśītala.
Prabhupāda: Yes, you are reading.
Prabhupāda: My Guru Mahārāja ordered me that "You go and preach this cult amongst the English speaking public and specially in the western countries." So first of all I thought of London, where is London, but I had no money. So I got the opportunity for going U.S.A. free on the, on a trade ship by the Scindia Steam Navigation. They gave me their first-class cabinet, the proprietor's cabinet. I was well carried. But first of all I went free on a steamship. I had no money, what to speak of aeroplane. So... What was your question?
Guest (1): My question was that how you selected America to be your...
Prabhupāda: Yes. So I got the opportunity to go to America because their ship goes to New York. So I accepted, "All right, we can see, either go to London or New York." New York is better place than London.
Guest (1): There are number of Indians in New York. In New York, Indians are...
Prabhupāda: No. In London there are many Indians.
Guest (1): In London, they say, there are about twelve lakhs of Indians in London.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There are many Indians. In the street you will find it is just like ordinary Indian city. (Hindi)
Guest (3): He's my old friend.
Devotee (4): ...national, just like the national...
Prabhupāda: Yes. So we have to organize. First of all let us publish in one city, big city like New York, like London, yes, Bombay, Tokyo. Big cities, world's big cities. In India only two cities are big: Calcutta, and Bombay, important. If you publish simultaneously, Calcutta... Delhi is given importance due to capital; otherwise not important as big city, as Bombay and Calcutta. Delhi, without government offices it is a dead city. Just like Washington. What is the value of Washington? It is nothing. Simply because it is headquarters of the President, it has got importance. Similarly, Delhi is that. Otherwise it is not important. But Calcutta, Bombay, is really important city in India, big business, port, all rich men, every kind of, all cultural, everything—Calcutta, and Bombay. Originally only Calcutta, now Bombay also. Because the Britishers, they made Calcutta capital. And Calcutta was very, very important city. But these Calcutta men, they create sometimes situation, very complicated. So once in 1905 the same situation was there, politically. Sir Surendranath Bannerjee made, Surendranath Bannerjee's movement, partition of Bengal. Lord Collier, he wanted to divide Bengal, made it East Bengal and West Bengal. And Surendranath Bannerjee... He is the practically father of Indian politics. Gandhi's not. He was. He was. And in the beginning, in European circles he was famous. He was called "Surrender-not." The spelling of the name, s-u-r-e-n-d-e-r, Surendranath. In Parliament he was known as "Surrender-not." He was a very powerful politician. So there was trouble in Calcutta; so therefore they transferred, 1911, capital to Delhi. Otherwise, from the very beginning of British occupation Calcutta was the capital. You have seen the government viceroy's house near that Hamilton building where you were trying to purchase.
Prof. Kotovsky: And you are leaving for United States or for Europe?
Prabhupāda: Yes, for Europe.
Prof. Kotovsky: For Europe. Ah, for Paris.
Prabhupāda: Paris. And we have got two ceremonies, very big ceremonies, in London and San Francisco, Ratha-yatra, car festival. And, it is estimated, fifty thousand people are going to participate in the ceremony both in London and San Francisco. We are making arrangement, car festival. This car festival is observed in Jagannātha Purī. You have been in Jagannātha Purī?
Prof. Kotovsky: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prof. Kotovsky: From immemorial time, this festival...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Prof. Kotovsky: Very, very old...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prof. Kotovsky: Very well parked(?)...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prof. Kotovsky: ...that car, very interesting piece of car.
Prabhupāda: That has been introduced in the Western countries, in London and San Francisco. And gradually, maybe, we will introduce in other countries also.
Prof. Kotovsky: In London among Indian community...
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Prof. Kotovsky: ...among the different(?) peoples of Indian community.
Prabhupāda: This is organized by the Englishmen and the Americans. Indian communities in London and San Francisco, they are trying to become sahib. You know the word sahib?
Prof. Kotovsky: (laughs) Westernized.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Westernized.
Prabhupāda: Jayānanda, how are you? So you are married now? Eh? So where is your marriage presentation?
Jayānanda: Pardon?
Prabhupāda: When you are not married, you gave me five thousand dollars. Now you are married, you must give me now ten thousand, double. Come on. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (indistinct) Where is your brother?
Makhanlal: I think he is in London.
Prabhupāda: What he is doing now?
Makhanlal: Building the Ratha-yātrā carts.
Prabhupāda: Ohh.
Makhanlal: For the festival.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, you are Nara-nārāyaṇa's brother. (devotees enter and pay obeisances) Hare Kṛṣṇa, come on. Nara-nārāyaṇa is very nice boy. Everything is all right? Where is your center?
Devotee (1): Tucson.
Prabhupāda: Where?
Devotee (2): Tucson, Arizona.
Prabhupāda: (more devotees enter) Come on. How is Govinda dāsī?
Devotee (3): She is improving.
Prabhupāda: Some time must be taken, but unlimited time, unlimited expenditure, that's not good. Ten percent. You produce books. Take ten percent. You may have more than 1,500. You may have more than that. They were to send me one card. There are no letters from them?
Karandhara: No. That's all that came, Prabhupāda. There were some more checks. I sent some to London. I sent two packages to London, two, two things to London. (break)
Prabhupāda: So anyway, I was very much anxious to hear about Chidananda. So he has written me. He is not very bad.
Karandhara: Well, he was in the hospital, and he got into a fight with the guard, I guess, and they arrested him for fighting and put him in jail for six months.
Prabhupāda: Fighting?
Karandhara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But he is weak. With whom he'll fight?
Karandhara: Yes. It was actually very... We have a lawyer working on it to get a suspended sentence. We've got a lawyer who is trying to get him a suspended sentence because he was sick and he..., they had him taking drugs and he was weak and he had been in the hospital for four months. Why they should put him in jail? He just got a little irritable.
Śyāmasundara: Actually he made two statements that, well, they practically promised to do this. He said in Los Angeles when he saw the Deities: "Oh, we must have a place like this in London." And then in New York, because I said, "Well, we don't want to be on your show here. We volunteer. You promised...," I said, "You promised us to be on the show in New York, and he said, "I know I promised, and I must fulfill my word, I gave you my word, but I'm just asking you if you will not be on this show, and later I'll have another special concert for Hare Kṛṣṇa."
Prabhupāda: So remind him.
Śyāmasundara: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: What about these Hindu communities?
Śyāmasundara: Well, that we can do during this time you're here. We can organize it. We can at least inspire them to help us.
Prabhupāda: Are they willing to cooperate with us or not? Because they have already opened some Hindu temple.
Śyāmasundara: Yeah.
Śyāmasundara: You can't count on him at all.
Prabhupāda: ...if he was willing, he would have done long ago, but he is not very serious.
Śyāmasundara: Well, I've never asked him for it, to do that.
Prabhupāda: So what is this asking? When he visited our Los Angeles temple, he appreciated and he said, "Why not a temple like this in London?"
Śyāmasundara: Well he's..., I..., He's been waiting for me to come here and talk to him here about it. I haven't...
Prabhupāda: But it is difficult to meet him.
Śyāmasundara: Well, he's just out of station now. As soon as he's in station I'll get him, I'll meet him.
Prabhupāda: Why don't you call him in New York?
Śyāmasundara: I don't know where he is.
Prabhupāda: That you are getting.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, na tasya śocananarthi. Don't lament which is gone. (laughter)
Mr. Arnold: Yes, thank you, thank you.
Dhanañjaya: Don't cry over spilt milk.
Prabhupāda: That is Sanskrit, na tasya śocananarthi.
Śyāmasundara: Actually, for a place in the center of London like this, it's nice to have offices and a small chapel and maybe a bookstore, but we would not be able to recruit many people to come on a residential basis, being in the center of the city. But in a place a little bit further out, like in a student neighborhood, everybody comes.
Prabhupāda: What? Student neighborhood?
Śyāmasundara: Yes, they'll come.
Prabhupāda: So, why not negotiate that?
Śyāmasundara: Daily they'll come and then gradually become devotees.
Prabhupāda: No, among the young men there is hankering after this sort of an institution. Everyone asks me, "Why the younger generation is attracted to this movement?" so many reporters. So somehow or other, I reply, "The young men, they're receptive, they can understand the value, whereas the old fools cannot." (laughing)
Guest (2) Gentlemen: Have you been harassed in London at all?
Prabhupāda: I don't think, but they are Londoners. They know better than me.
Devotee: Yes, we have been harassed many times. We have been arrested and left from the prison about twelve o'clock, one o'clock in the night, and then we were far from that place to here.
Devotee: When was that?
Revatīnandana: The last time was a week ago. (laughs)
Guest (2): Would you say that the Americans are generally less tolerant than Londoners to you or more tolerant?
Revatīnandana: America or here?
Guest (2): Yes. Which is the worse and which is the better?
Prabhupāda: America is more tolerant, I think.
Prabhupāda: So many people are dying by motor accidents, but do they stop motor car?
English guest: Do you think the situation will get better in London.
Devotee: Yes.
Guest (2): You do?
Revatīnandana: Wherever there is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa going on, things will get better.
Guest (2): Say, if the average London policeman, if he could be convinced to chant.
Revatīnandana: Convinced? No. Some of them are less hostile, some of them more hostile, naturally. We can chant on one side of Oxford St., but we cannot chant on the other side of the street because there's two different police departments. It's like that. There is no hard and fast way to figure it out. You just have to try it and see.
Guest (2): Can I ask about your rate... about growth? How, can ask how the movement is growing? Can you give me any figures at all? I was speaking to one of your colleagues earlier who mentioned 150, but seventy-five approximately which were in London. Are the figures growing week by week?
Prabhupāda: Yes. I started this movement alone, and now there are eight thousand.
Guest (2): I'm talking about in Britain.
Revatīnandana: Same thing. Yes, every few days somebody joins.
Guest (2): Can you tell me how many of those actually stay?
Haṁsadūta: Oh, 99% stay.
Guest (2): And what is the figure likely to be? Five a week, ten a week?
Prabhupāda: We don't keep any statistics, but actually the fact is that I started alone; now we are eight thousand.
Haṁsadūta: Whatever they print for me, or whatever Bali prints for me, I pay him and I pay 100% mark-up so that there can be some money.
Prabhupāda: So in this way organize and distribute literature, and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa saṅkīrtana yajña. Then our mission will be successful. Accha, here, they are coming, so we shall make a committee, London building fund committee. In that committee, Mr. Arnold and his wife... (break) ...nicely and organize responsibly. So that can be done provided they have got their own men. Why he's not training the Africans? He should train.
Parivrājakācārya: He hasn't got very many Africans. I think only about two.
Prabhupāda: Then suspend that installation.
Parivrājakācārya: They haven't been making any devotees there.
Prabhupāda: Then there is no... (break) ...and if we conquer our eating then we can conquer our sleeping also. Nidrāhāra vihārakādi vijitau **. (break) Don't make fuss. If you are serious, then it is all right. Otherwise, you are young men. If you again give up sannyāsa or you try to marry, it will be scandalous for our society. Don't do that. If you are steady... But so far report is you are not very steady. Do you admit this or not?
Kulaśekhara: Yes. Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: So these three things, if you try to understand that God is the proprietor, God is the supreme friend and God is the supreme enjoyer, then all problems solved.
Journalist (1): Thank you.
Journalist (2): May I come in another queue for BBC Radio 4, just to tell me in fact what is the purpose of your visit to London?
Prabhupāda: To teach you these things, as we were just talking with your friend, that God is proprietor, God is friend of everyone and God is the supreme enjoyer.
Journalist (2): I understand in fact that you are a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa. What does this mean?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Journalist (2): Can you tell me what it means?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Devotee of God.
Prabhupāda: Then don't talk of seeing God. Don't talk of seeing God. God seeing is not so cheap. You talk about seeing God. If you want to see God, then you have (to) become a student how to see God.
Journalist (2): Can I see God by becoming a Christian?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That I was speaking. That if you are true Christian, you will see God. But who is true Christian, let me see first of all.
Journalist (2): Have you got a particular mission for London?
Prabhupāda: I have particular mission for the whole world? Why London? London is included in the world.
Journalist (2): What is that mission?
Prabhupāda: That mission is to make you understand what is God. You cannot say what is God. If I ask you, can you say what is God?
Journalist (2): I can't. Can you?
Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to learn.
Journalist (2): Can you say what is God?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Yes. Therefore you have to become student.
Journalist (2): Tell me what is God.
Prabhupāda: First of all, you become a student, otherwise you'll not be understand... That I say God is the supreme enjoyer, God is the supreme proprietor. That I already told. Can you understand this? Can you refute this, that God is not the supreme proprietor?
Prabhupāda: Anyway, he wants to help me, but he cannot.
Dr. Singh: Why can he not?
Prabhupāda: I do not know.
Dr. Singh: I'll write to him. I'll write to him.
Prabhupāda: So anyway, give us some place in London.
Dr. Singh: We'll try to do something, Swamiji. We'll try and do something definitely.
Śyāmasundara: That letter, which address did you send that to?
Dr. Singh: I don't really know, but I've sent it. When are you going? Who is going? None of you are going.
Śyāmasundara: We're not going. I was thinking, though, if you have a carbon copy, we could send it to my Godbrothers who are going to (indistinct).
Dr. Singh: Today is already the 26th..., 25th..., 26th. What is it today?
Gurudāsa: Tomorrow's the 26th.
Dr. Singh: It will never get there. It will take (indistinct)
English woman: Sometimes the letters only take three days. Sometimes they take a week.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) takes three days by air (indistinct).
Dr. Singh: There must be a good temple in London.
Prabhupāda: I am inviting everyone, all Europeans.
Mālatī: But it's not... Every day there's people from not only the Indian community, which you know is very large there, but everywhere. (others talking-indistinct) And they're beautiful. People are always amazed. And all the jewelry and all the mukuts and all the dresses, we make them ourself, and people are amazed. They are so beautiful. They have very big smiling faces and they're very shiny.
Prabhupāda: Next time when you go to London...
Dr. Singh: Yes, I'll definitely visit. I requested you to send me the list of your centers because I travel constantly throughout the world. And wherever I go, I can always look up the thing, and if I find a center there, I can drop into the center.
Śyāmasundara: Every city.
Dr. Singh: This is a new (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) Actually people are accepting this great culture of India. The (indistinct).
Dr. Singh: How long you are in India now?
Prabhupāda: At least three months.
Prabhupāda: ...have no attachment. These are all nonsense. You cannot be (indistinct). A living being, to become desireless, how you can? I am living. I am not a dead body. Desire should be to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Attachment should be for Him. That's all. You have to change. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You have now attachment for sense gratification, desire for sense gratification. This has to be changed. Purification of desire, purification of attachment. Tat paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). Eyes, because it is diseased, you don't pluck out. This is nonsense. Cure the eyes of the disease, then you will see things right. The Māyāvādī philosophy is pluck out the eyes. Buddha philosophy is make it zero. That is also same thing, plucking out. Our philosophy is "No. Cure it." That is the difference. It is very simple. Which one is better? Just like a man is suffering from disease, fever, and doctor gives him medicine. He dies. Then the patient's guardian says, "Sir, he is dead now. You have given some medicine, he is dead." "That's all right, fever is gone. Fever is gone. Never mind he is dead." (laughter) These rascal philosophy statement is like that. Make zero. Make imperson. Then the difficulties of personality... Because they have got very bad experience of personality here. He had to become minister, he has become king and this and that, householder, all botheration. So make imperson. That's all. Negation. Personality is giving us trouble, so make imperson. God must be imperson, because as soon as we have person, there is trouble. They have got experience. (indistinct) as soon as they (indistinct), make it zero, then there is no pains and pleasure. The body, because Buddha philosophy does not give any idea of soul-bodily concept. The body is combination of matter, so dismantle this combination. Just like you have got a skyscraper building, so you have to pay tax. Break it, make it zero, so no tax. This is philosophy. Do you follow? You have got a very big building, so you have to pay tax. To save tax, break the building. No more taxes. No more pains and pleasure. No more anxiety. That is Buddha philosophy. That means these philosophers are called fools and rascal, less intelligent. Would you like this advice, that you have got a big building, just like in London there is a big building, and he has got a policy anyway that he does not allow any tenant. Largest building in London, to save tax. But his point is different. In Bengali there is adage that (Bengali), that a man's utensils were stolen by a thief, so he became very angry, that "A thief has taken all my utensil. All right, I shall not purchase utensil. I shall take food on the floor. I shall take food on the floor. No more utensils. I shall not keep plates and utensils any more. I shall take food on the floor." This is philosophy. (break) We don't believe in so-called nonviolence, nonattachment, zero. No. We believe in everything, but if there is required violence, fight, "Yes, come on." Yes. Arjuna. No consideration, "The other side my grandfather, my father, or this or that. Kṛṣṇa wants this fight to kill them all." Gopīs, at dead of night they went to Kṛṣṇa: "Kṛṣṇa wants us. Oh, we don't care for all this social convention. Kick out. Let us go." Prahlāda Maharaja, Nṛsiṁha-deva killing his father, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is taking pleasure in killing my father. That is all right. (laughter) That I don't protest." He could have said, "My dear Lord, please do not kill my father." Immediately he would have been saved from that.
Prabhupāda: Is there any alternative? To defy it? We do not say anything which can be defied by anyone. That experience we have got. Rather, we defy it. "Any question?" Till now. And Kṛṣṇa gives us protection. In big, big meeting, in big, big country, after speaking I ask, "Any question?"
Bob: Now...I have none.
Prabhupāda: In London, we had, how many days lecture in that, what is that, Conway Hall?
Gurudāsa: Twelve days. Conway Hall.
Prabhupāda: Conway Hall, yes.
Gurudāsa: Twelve days.
Prabhupāda: So after every meeting I was asking, "Any question?"
Bob: Did you get many questions?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Many foolish questions. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: I simply advise them that you regularly chant the sixteen rounds. Not more, you cannot make... You cannot imitate Haridāsa Ṭhākura. But there must be one saṅkhyā. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna. They are observing that and the regulative principles: no illicit sex, no intoxication, no meat-eating, no gambling. And they are following other instructions, so they are wonderfully.
Dr. Kapoor: You know Dalmiaji's daughter-in-law, the wife of Viṣṇu Hari Dalmia...
Prabhupāda: Viṣṇu Hari went to see me in London, perhaps with his wife.
Dr. Kapoor: Accha. She told me, she said the movement is all right but they are so strict, such strict rules and regulations are being imposed upon these people, how long will they be able to follow them?
Prabhupāda: That is a surprise.
Dr. Kapoor: This is bound to fail, she said. I say it will succeed just because of this. (laughter) The rules and regulations imposed upon them are like strong fences put around them to keep māyā away, you see?
Yamunā: They want relgiosity watered down.
Prabhupāda: Actually, because they are following strictly, māyā cannot touch them. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ, na sa siddhim (BG 16.23). Kṛṣṇa says vidhi. Bhakti-vidhi. Must be followed. (aside:) This is cut piece? Cut piece from the book cover? No. It is original photo?
Prabhupāda: Yes. My headquarter is in Los Angeles. Now we have made very big headquarter in Bombay, Juhu. Twenty thousand square yards. We are constructing a very nice temple there. And similarly, we have got another headquarter at, by pīṭha, in Lord Caitanya's birthsite, Navadvīpa. There also we are constructing very big temple. It is eleven bighās. What is a bighā? About four acres.
Guest (1): What about England? London. How is your movement doing?
Prabhupāda: Yes, London is very... There is also. We have got very nice temple near British Museum, 7 Bury Place. And all Europeans, they come to see our temple from Germany, from France. Because we have been advertised in cooperation with the Beatles. The Beatles, Beatles, the George Harrison. You do not know his name? He is very famous man. Yes. So we have produced some records in cooperation with George Harrison's organization. So because the records are produced through George Harrison, we have got a very, very big sale. You see? And that has advertised Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Temple, London. So people come to see what is this Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa temple, out of... Because London, every day, thousands of visitors come in London. They have got visitors buses also, charge nominal. So London is still important. From all parts of the world people come. So anyone who comes, they come to see our temple.
Guest (1): In the minds of some people the sudden attraction of Western youth to Eastern religions...
Prabhupāda: No. It is not Eastern. That is a wrong conception. God is for everybody. Eastern people, when I speak of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they say, "What is this Kṛṣṇa? We know Kṛṣṇa. What we have to learn from Swamiji?" "Familiarity breeds contempt." But in the Western countries when we speak of Kṛṣṇa, they see the philosophy. They see the science and become attracted. We, in the very beginning, we neglect: "Oh, what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness?" Otherwise there is no question of Western or Eastern. Kṛṣṇa is for everyone. Kṛṣṇa is neither Western, neither Eastern. But Eastern, our, especially Indians, they have learned to reject. That is their education: immediately reject it. This is their new culture, to reject everything. At least Jawaharlal Nehru began like that, "Anything Indian is bad. Everything London-made is good." That was his philosophy. And if one European would go to see him, immediately admission. And if an Indian goes to see him, three days he has to wait. So Jawaharlal made this impression, that "Everything Indian is bad, and anything made in London..." Because he was made in London. He was educated in London. So everything nice. Although in my household life I was doing some business in connection. I had to see Jawaharlal Nehru. So when he was common man, I went to his house. I saw it is completely Europeanized, although he is in khādi. So his father, he hated Indian medicine. You see? Motilal Nehru. A doctor, his family physician, he told me. I was doing medicine business. So I introduced one preparation, pulti(?). That was in a clay pot, anti-floristan(?) So doctor said personally, "If I prescribe your pul, jagal-pulti(?), that Motilal Nehru says, 'Doctor, in case of medicine, please do not prescribe Indian.' " You see? So this is our mentality. We have got all foreign mentality, but still, we are claiming that we have become independent. Not indepen... We are culturally conquered by the materialistic advancement of foreign countries. We have lost our own culture. This is our position.
Śyāmasundara: In India, the post office is always open. There's always some post office open. Even in small towns.
Prabhupāda: That was also British management. Here also British management, how is that?
Devotee (2): In London it's always open.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Devotee (2): In London it's always open, the central post office.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (1): This one shuts down. They are eager to stop work and enjoy their senses. (break)
Prabhupāda: So that anyone questions, you can answer. That is required, preaching. Just like this girl, "Why you are recommending your Bhagavad-gītā?" Answer must be there: "Because this is. "They are all rascals. They are not speaking Bhagavad-gītā as it is.
Śyāmasundara: She understood it also.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. You have no right. Suppose I have written one book. So I have got some intention. So why should you interpret my intention with your intention? What right you have got? You have no right. If you want to speak something of yours, then you write another book. Why you are taking advantage of my book and misleading others? I want to speak to the public something, I have expressed my opinion in that way. But because it is popular, you are taking advantage of my book and expressing your views. How much cheating, how much cheater you are! Therefore he is suffering, Dr. Radhakrishnan. He has lost his brain. We went to see him, Dr. Radhakrishnan, when I was in Madras. You went?
Prabhupāda: In Bombay we can go to you..."Mataji we have no more money, please give me some."
Sumati Morarjee: No, that is different, but these things...
Prabhupāda: Yes, so, but Vṛndāvana and Navadvīpa I want to make some provision. So I'm negotiating for that. This is one business. So Bombay.... (Hindi exchanges) Huh?
Sumati Morarjee: Of course, you won't get so much rent for London properties. They're also very much appreciated.
Prabhupāda: London property is very costly.
Sumati Morarjee: Oh very costly, but they're day by day, appreciating.
Prabhupāda: Hmm.
Devotee: Doubled, in one year it's doubled.
Sumati Morarjee: No, no. 40 percent has gone up in a year's time, on one property.
Prabhupāda: Because the Indians are coming.
Sumati Morarjee: Yes, they'll (indistinct) all the property.
Prabhupāda: (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Because the Indians are coming.
Sumati Morarjee: Yes, they'll (indistinct) all the property.
Prabhupāda: (laughter)
Sumati Morarjee: And started taking all the shops. All the cinema theatres.
Prabhupāda: And London is practically no Indian.
Sumati Morarjee: I always say that I see more Indians in London than (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: (Hindi exchanges)
Sumati Morarjee: Oh, so much prasāda.
Devotee: Oh, we have prepared just a little for you.
Sumati Morarjee: All right. I'll say you can send it back, because the children are at home.
Prabhupāda: All right, all right, all right.
Sumati Morarjee: I'll take, send you back your results. Did he give you (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: So he'll give you some paper, you'll wrap it.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes, you can take.
Sumati Morarjee: So you must, you (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Ah yes, here (laughter)
Sumati Morarjee: And this also, so I will always remember that I've been in London to meet Swamiji, my, Swamiji's godson.
Devotee: And you also (indistinct), board of trustees.
Prabhupāda: You president, you give her this garland.
Sumati Morarjee: Me?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Sumati Morarjee: But did you put 'round Swamiji's head?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Sumati Morarjee: He has come from there?
Devotee: Myself? I just came from Detroit.
Sumati Morarjee: Detroit. And this Swamiji from where.
Guest: I'm staying here, in London.
Sumati Morarjee: No, but you come from where?
Prabhupāda: He's from America.
Guest: From California.
Sumati Morarjee: All from California?
Devotee: He travels around England and preaches in all the villages, small towns.
Sumati Morarjee: Where's that?
Devotee: Here, in England, Scotland.
Guest: I also met you in Bombay once.
Sumati Morarjee: Yes, yes, I have seen you in Bombay. And what about you?
Devotee: I'm Scottish.
Sumati Morarjee: Ah, because you look...
Prabhupāda: In Edinborough we have got a temple.
Sumati Morarjee: So if you are here, I'll be here by 6th, 7th of October, because 10th is my meeting.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Sumati Morarjee: In London. So I will take your.... Swamiji.
Prabhupāda: Jaya, jaya, Sumatiji ki jaya. All glories to Sumatiji (laughter) .
Sumati Morarjee: All glories to Lord Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Sumati Morarjee: (Hindi) So you write to me about this Hong Kong.
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And for you becoming the president of the Trustee, I shall write to Girirāja.
Sumati Morarjee: Yes, you write to Girirāja, and we will discuss ourselves.
Prabhupāda: Thank you.
Frenchman: (indistinct) ...history of many masters and many great teachers such as Jesus Christ and many others... (indistinct) ...come to... (indistinct) ...message. (indistinct) ...today on the same level.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because from God's side there is always an attempt to make the people right. As soon as they're wrongly directed, some messenger comes like Jesus Christ or Buddha or, before Him, Lord Kṛṣṇa. So what we are preaching that is not new. It is God consciousness. And all the great messiahs they came. But the thing is that people are changing in their different education mentalities. So we have to present things in such a way that intelligent person can accept the old teachings in the western countries. Like Lord Jesus Christ... Either they're not being followed or they're not properly understood because in London I saw hundreds of churches are vacant. That means that it's so practical that people have no more interest in Christianity or the Christian people could not convince them of the spiritual necessity of life. Many churches are for sale. That's not a good sign. That means people have lost interest in spiritual life but fortunately the younger generation, they are taking to this spiritual movement.
Prabhupāda: British Empire, when there was British Empire, when they were getting money from all over the world, somehow or other they constructed so many big, big buildings. Now they are encouraging not so big, and now it is difficult to maintain it. We can see practically that you have got so nice buildings in London, but it is not being properly maintained. You haven't got sufficient means now to maintain them. Therefore it was..., British Empire was for the time being that prosperity. Now to keep up your prestige you are concerned in so many ways. So anything you do in this material world, that is temporary. So many-Roman Empire, Moghul Empire, British Empire, Hitler Empire—they came and gone. But my real problem is that I am eternal, so what I am doing for my eternal life? That is it. Temporarily I may become very rich or poor, it doesn't matter. But people are being taught, "Oh, you are poor? You become rich." That's all. Just like our India trying to imitate the Western world. But they do not see that in the Western world, in America, in Europe, why these young boys, they are rejecting this materialistic way of life? These boys have come to me because they have rejected, they don't like. Just like you are coming. Why you are surrendering to me? Because you are not satisfied. So our Indians, they do not see that "These men, they have already everything. Why they are rejecting?" All facility. Because this will not give us real happiness. We are spirit soul. We cannot be happy simply by material opulence. That is not possible. This is Vedic civilization: how people will be happy. They can be happy simply by self-realization, spiritual realization, because he is spirit.
Prabhupāda: Towards the airport. So not bad.
Devotee (1): Not bad. No, it's still downtown.
Dhanañjaya: It's on the motorway. It's very near to the motorway, the motorway coming from the airport into central London.
Prabhupāda: So why not see earlier? Have you got any description?
Dhanañjaya: Well, we can't see it earlier because it belongs to the Methodist Church, and their committee members are meeting in another city, in Manchester, for a week. They have their..., a big congress meeting there. So they don't come back until the end of this week.
Devotee (1): So we can't see it while they're meeting?
Dhanañjaya: Well we could see it from the outside. Actually we went there one day, Mr. Allen(?) and (indistinct) and myself.
Prabhupāda: Well, what is the description?
Dhanañjaya: It's very nice. It's something like, ah, something like the size of this temple but bigger.
Devotee (2): Bigger than Los Angeles?
Dhanañjaya: And also it has a steeple.
Prabhupāda: Bigger, bigger. What is the price?
Dhanañjaya: Oh, more than 250,000 pounds.
Prabhupāda: She can influence the whole Bombay, she's so...
Devotee (2): Oh, she knows everyone.
Dhanañjaya: We need a president like her for the board of trustees for London also.
Devotee: Has she had any assistance?(?)
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. She is doing her best. She is nice.
Devotee (1): When is Mr. (indistinct) going to come?
Dhanañjaya: He's going to drive Prabhupāda to Kensington tomorrow.
Devotee: Tomorrow?
Dhanañjaya: Or Friday.
Devotee (2): He can't come before? He should come...
Revatīnandana: He comes almost every night actually. (more conversation)
Prabhupāda: And the Joshi is the manager here?
Devotee (1): That's her manager here.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Devotee: He went to America and he made a lot of money there.
Indian: As far as I know, Prabhupāda, he was Jew, but he used to live in east of London, or south of London. There is an autobiography about it.
Prabhupāda: Max Linder, ah, Charlie Chaplin? Yes. He was a London man.
Devotee: But that movie was filmed in Los Angeles, the one we saw last night. In Hollywood. All the palm trees and the (indistinct) behind.
Indian (Ksirodaksayi?): One of the elder sons, he's still living in Hampstead Heath.
Prabhupāda: Oh, his eldest son. And where he is, Charlie Chaplin?
Devotee: In America.
Prabhupāda: In America?
Devotee: He's in Switzerland.
Indian: No, no, he lives in Europe somewhere. Switzerland, most... Sometimes coming in Hampstead Heath.
Prabhupāda: He has got a big family?
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Now they are not, those Englishmen, as they were in Victorian day. Nobody cares for you.
Devotee: You'll see the last remnants at that Commonwealth Club, I think, engagement. No more, no one cares.
Prabhupāda: Commonwealth is in name. (pause)
Devotee: Still, there is something about London. Everyone likes to come here. There's so many... There's not enough hotel rooms even.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Devotee: There's not even enough hotel rooms to accommodate so many tourists who come here to London.
Prabhupāda: London is still famous. People outside, they have got very high idea about London.
Devotee: Civilized. Very civilized city.
Prabhupāda: Why civilized? Do you think it is especially civilized?
Devotee: Well, a lot more than America anyway. By comparison it seems civilized, in the sense that there is not so much violence. There's not... People are honest, upright, moral, a little more.
Prabhupāda: In America general life is becoming wretched.
Prabhupāda: The government may create a prisonhouse, but why do you go there? Does the government invite you there? No, you become a criminal and go there. The prisonhouse is there and the university is there. Why do some people go to prison rather than the university? The government is not partial to people; it does not say, "You live in this university and be educated, and you go to the prison and live there." It is in the individual's choice. Similarly, God has created so many things, but it is our duty to follow God's instructions. God says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) "Just give up all nonsense and surrender unto Me. I shall give you all protection." That is God's declaration. Why don't you take to that? God is all powerful, and He may create so many things for some purpose, but why don't you follow God's instructions? God says, "Surrender unto Me," so why not surrender? Why surrender to māyā? That is the individual's choice. Another example: the government does not want the youth to become hippies, but they are abandoning a wealthy life just to lie down in the street. In London I've seen many boys lying on the street. Why? We Indians may lie on the street because we are poor, but they are not poor, nor the Americans. Why has some of the younger generation accepted this way of life? You have enough food, enough house, enough money, facilities, machines—everything. Why are they accepting this kind of life?
Prabhupāda: That is because their purpose is not strong. That is due to māyā, forgetfulness. Just like darkness and light; if your light is strong, there is no darkness. But if you have no light, or if your light is not very strong, there is darkness. This is the principle: If you want to drive away darkness, you must bring light. That is the only medicine. You don't have to make a separate endeavor to drive away darkness. As soon as you bring light, darkness will go. The motto of our magazine Back To Godhead is: "Godhead is light, nescience is darkness. Where there is Godhead there is no nescience." This is also the Vedic
injunction: Don't remain in darkness; come to the light. How is this possible? When I flew to London from Los Angeles, there was no darkness, for we did not allow the sun to set, you remain always in light. This means that if you don't forget Kṛṣṇa, your life will be successful. If you aim your plane westward and don't stop, you will remain in sunlight all the time. Similarly, if you remain in Kṛṣṇa consciousness by the simple method of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, you will never see the darkness. This is because Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's name are absolute; Kṛṣṇa is not different from His name. Kṛṣṇa is light, and if we associate with the name of Kṛṣṇa, we remain in light. Remaining in light is a very simple method; therefore you see all these boys with their beads chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. In this way māyā cannot touch them. No intoxication, no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling. How can these boys, who have been trained to practice these four items from the beginning of their lives, give them all up? Everything is possible, provided we make the choice.
Prabhupāda: Ah. They think, "Oh, what we have to learn from them about Kṛṣṇa? We are all-knowing." (Hindi) And you were speaking, some of your Madras colleagues. They come here and immediately they learn how to eat meat. (Hindi)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Before they came they were not eating meat, but when they come here they normally, they buy it, they cook it, and they not only just... They buy, themselves, and they do everything.
Prabhupāda: London... (Hindi) Practically cent percent Indians, they eat meat.
Guest (4): Swamiji, what is the role of meat-eating in...
Prabhupāda: Meat-eater means sinners. He cannot understand Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (4): Well, where is it...?
Prabhupāda: It is said in the śāstra, striyaḥ sūnā pānaṁ dyūtaṁ yatrādharmaś catur-vidhāḥ: "Four kinds of sinful activities: illicit sex life, striyaḥ; sūnā, the animal slaughter; pānam, intoxication; dyūtam, gambling." These are the four pillars of sinful life. So you have to break these pillars of sinful life. Then you can understand Kṛṣṇa. They have broken. On my word they have broken the first four pillars and therefore they are advanced.
Prabhupāda: This is not surrender.
Jayatīrtha: Kṛṣṇa is not attracted by the foodstuff; He's attracted by the devotion.
Prabhupāda: Devotion, yes. For Kṛṣṇa we can offer (indistinct). (break)
Jayatīrtha: You will go from London to Bombay?
Prabhupāda: If need be. (indistinct) (break)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is dark.
Prabhupāda: It's getting darker and darker. (indistinct) So we will have to change our plan. (break) (indistinct) ...and they are also making dog show.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: When I came here, I was walking and I saw big house and the restaurants. So I didn't know what... So I asked somebody, "Oh, this is just (indistinct)." And afterward I found out it was some food made out of...
Devotee (2): Meat.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. But I thought in the other sense that it may be dog's meat(?) (break) neighbour(?) from Poona, he was also from Calcutta, (indistinct) to me, he came little later than I, he thought... One day he came to me and he said he took a hamburger in the restaurant. He said that hamburger is not made out of beef. He said it is made out of ham. So he said he had hamburger. He came to me and he said. I said, "So you have taken beef?" So he said "No, it is not. It is ham."
Prabhupāda: Now many Indians are taking beef. Most. In London, all Indians they take beef. The school children, they take beef.
Prabhupāda: In the name of Vedānta.
Jayatīrtha: Vedānta means the goal of knowledge, but they are making an end of knowledge. Keśava went to Santa Barbara last night to finish up some last minute business he had there, but now he's back and he is resting.
Prabhupāda: So he is prepared to go to London?
Jayatīrtha: He seems anxious to go, yes.
Prabhupāda: That's good. Why Śyāmasundara does not return?
Jayatīrtha: He's here. He's also asleep. He came in the middle of the night, two or three o'clock in the morning.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Jayatīrtha: (indistinct) is in charge of our traveling saṅkīrtana party, so he's back here for a few days. They're going around to all the fairs, state fairs, county fairs, and distributing literature. He's had very great success
Prabhupāda: Indians are coming in Europe and America to learn technology, but next generation will come here to learn spiritual science, to seek brāhmaṇas. What do you think?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Ambassador: Isn't that interesting.
Śyāmasundara: We've got a lot of Vietnam veterans too, join up.
Ambassador: Really.
Śyāmasundara: One boy in London, he was on his way back from Vietnam, and he was completely shattered, and he found refuge in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He was a machine-gunner.
Ambassador: Where are you living?
Śyāmasundara: Well, we've been living in London last two years.
Ambassador: But here you're all living in the Delhi area, but you're going down to... What's the name of that place south of here?
Guru dāsa: Vṛndāvana?
Ambassador: Yeah.
Guru dāsa: We went.
Ambassador: Oh, you went?
Guru dāsa: Very nice.
Prabhupāda: Where?
Guru dāsa: They inquired about our Vṛndāvana trip.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: Hari bol! (Hindi)
Śyāmasundara: Who is that?
Prabhupāda: Gosvāmī. He is one of my eldest Godbrothers.
Śyāmasundara: Oh.
Prabhupāda: He also went to London. Yes. I sometimes speak that he talked with Lord Zetland.
Śyāmasundara: Aha. But he left no followers there? (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Thank you very much. Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Śyāmasundara: When Kṛṣṇa used to come here, was His home in Gokula at that time, or Mathurā?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: And He used to come here for herding the cows?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (2): But He did not live here.
Śyāmasundara: Was there any palace here?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Śyāmasundara: Was there any palace here of His parents?
Prabhupāda: They say there is a (indistinct) (Hindi) Huh? (break)
Śyāmasundara: Everyone wants some prasāda.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...some small feast.
Prabhupāda: Take a little breakfast?
Gurudāsa: They said you wanted to see me?
Prabhupāda: Huh? Oh, about that typing. (break) How we have secured that house in London.
Gurudāsa: Oh, jaya! All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda!
Prabhupāda: Berkshire Palace.
Devotee (1): Berkshire Palace, (indistinct).
Gurudāsa: Duke of Windsor's castle(?).
Devotee (1): He's the king there, right? The queen's husband.
Prabhupāda: He was to be the king, but he rejected for that one common girl. So the ministry asked him that "You have to give up this girl or you have to give up your throne." So he preferred to give up his throne. And the present queen's father, his second brother, he was made king, King George VI. Otherwise, this Duke of Windsor... When he refused to become the king, he became the Duke of Windsor and he was given this Berkshire Palace.
Prabhupāda: What do they say?
Gurudāsa: They think. Then I say, "You can teach all the subjects and also teach the spiritual. "
Prabhupāda: If we organize our Bombay, then we shall regularly teach all the students from the very beginning. And in London also we shall. London, Dallas. So that these students will be transferred. Their parents will be very glad that our students have gone to foreign countries for study. We shall have very, very good sympathy(?). Our only policy will be the students should be taught very nice English for understanding our books.
Gurudāsa: In Bombay rather than Māyāpur?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Gurudāsa: In Bombay rather than...
Prabhupāda: Everywhere. Everywhere. But you make higher study, higher study, higher study.
Gurudāsa: Māyāpur can be the highest.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct), or everywhere this existence(?) should be lower class, higher class. But our all institutions should be for giving spiritual. We have got so many books. Simply he has to learn English and Sanskrit, that's all. (indistinct) So we are not going to follow the university curriculum, no. We have got our own.
Gurudāsa: We have had experience in the university, and it has not satisfied us. We have come to you.
Prabhupāda: Not only you, I know what (indistinct). What nonsense they give.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...India, I'll have to go South Africa. Johannesburg?
Gurudāsa: Johannesburg.
Prabhupāda: Johannesburg, yes. There also we are meeting with great success. And from Johannesburg, then I shall go to London. In Moscow also we have got a small center. I went to Moscow.
Indian man: Russians running it?
Prabhupāda: Yes, Russians. Russian young boys are as good as Americans. By artificial means they have been checked. The Russian government is not good at all. Suppression. Simply suppression.
Indian man: But they permit this kind of thing?
Prabhupāda: They do not permit, but they are holding class.
Indian man: Holding class.
Prabhupāda: Yes, reading Bhagavad-gītā. And I am getting that boy married with my one French girl disciple. Then he will be strong. (laughs) We are also playing politics. You know that...
Gurudāsa: Mandākinī.
Prabhupāda: Mandākinī, yes. Very nice girl. You have seen her?
Devotee (3): Very nice pujārī.
Prabhupāda: ...picture?
Indian man: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Similar Deity we'll have in this London Berkshire Palace.
Indian man: They don't look like the Deities, they look like boy and girl.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Kiśora-Kiśorī. (break)
Indian man: (indistinct) get a closer look at it.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is very nice. People come to see the Deities in Bombay.
Indian man: You brought them from Jaipur?
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is very nice. And especially at New Vrindaban, oh, Kṛṣṇa is so attractive.
Indian man: But they're all from Jaipur. Jaipur is the place.
Devotee (3): We are just packing for sending one set of Jaipur... (break)
Prabhupāda: Vṛndāvana also you can get.
Indian man: Bombay will be very expensive. I think...
Prabhupāda: No, we don't pay anything. We work ourself.
| Page Title: | London (Conversations 1968 - 1972) |
| Compiler: | Jahnu, Mayapur |
| Created: | 29 of Dec, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=59, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 59 |