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Logic (Conversations)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- March 9, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: You can fight against death very nicely, but you cannot stop death. These are the problems. But there is no education in the modern civilization how to stop death, how to stop disease, how to stop old age, how to stop birth, how to attain eternal life, how to attain blissful life. They have no education. But this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, although it appears a new movement in your country, but it is known to the world. But nobody had previously attempted to put these ideas and movement in practical shape. So that I am doing. That I am attempting. And with this mission, I have come to your country with the hope that if the American people take it very seriously, then it will be the greatest contribution to the world. So I have already published this, my magazines and my books, in this connection. So if people take advantage of this movement, try to understand these books, they will be benefited greatly. So that is the basic principle of my teaching. It is the most perfect humanitarian work. Try to understand. We invite anyone. And take it diligently, put your arguments, logic, understanding, and you will find it is sublime. That is the basic principle of my movement.

Interview -- March 9, 1968, San Francisco:
You can fight against death very nicely, but you cannot stop death. These are the problems. But there is no education in the modern civilization how to stop death, how to stop disease, how to stop old age, how to stop birth, how to attain eternal life, how to attain blissful life. They have no education. But this Kṛṣṇa conPrabhupāda: sciousness movement, although it appears a new movement in your country, but it is known to the world. But nobody had previously attempted to put these ideas and movement in practical shape. So that I am doing. That I am attempting. And with this mission, I have come to your country with the hope that if the American people take it very seriously, then it will be the greatest contribution to the world. So I have already published this, my magazines and my books, in this connection. So if people take advantage of this movement, try to understand these books, they will be benefited greatly. So that is the basic principle of my teaching. It is the most perfect humanitarian work. Try to understand. We invite anyone. And take it diligently, put your arguments, logic, understanding, and you will find it is sublime. That is the basic principle of my movement.
Interview -- March 9, 1968, San Francisco:
Prabhupāda: This is also Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But the project is very great. It will have to be finished in sixty volumes like this. So about ten, twelve volumes are already finished. So I'm going on working on this. So it is a great subject matter for study. So people should take interest in it. It is not anything trifle thing. People should come to us to understand. We have got literature. We have got philosophy. Everything we have got. It is not a blind, imposing thing, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So everyone who actually wants to give some service to the society, to the humanity, they must study this philosophy and get prepared to meet anyone, scientists, philosopher, poet, talk with them, and he can give answer to all their questions. But our method is very simple. We call everyone, even to the child, "Come, sit down, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." And then gradually he realizes. But if anyone wants to understand this philosophy through knowledge, through books, through philosophy, logic, we are prepared. But for the mass of people we give the simple method. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, and he realizes. All these boys, they're not philosophers. They're not very highly learned but they're developing simply by chanting. This is so nice. It is for the greatest scholar and it is for the innocent boy. Therefore it is universal. Even for the animals. Yes. We have seen. Sometimes dogs they also dance to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness chanting.
Questions and Answers -- Montreal, August 26, 1968:

Prabhupāda: So your question, Rukmiṇī's question, Lord Caitanya's opulence... There are six kinds of opulences: richness, then fame, strength, influence, beauty, education and renunciation. So He exhibited all these six. He was very beautiful; therefore His name is Gaurasundara. Very beautiful-tall and stout and strong. There was no comparison of His beauty at that time, He was so beautiful, fair complexion. This time He did not appear in black complexion because people after fair complexion. So... And son of a very respectable brāhmaṇa family, and very highly educated. His scholarly manifestation you'll find in the explanation of one verse:

ātmārāmāś ca munayo
nirgranthā apy urukrame
kurvanty ahaitukīṁ bhaktim
ittham-bhūta-guṇo hariḥ

This verse was twice explained, two times explained: once before Sanatāna Gosvāmī and once before Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya. Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya was considered at that time to be the greatest learned man in India. At that time nyāya-śāstra, logic, amongst the learned scholar logic is the greatest weapon to get victory over His opponent. So learned scholar is always a very learned scholar in logic, nyāya-śāstra. So this logic was taught in Bihar, Dharvanga. India, in different parts of India, different kinds of education was imparted. In Benares, the Mayavāda philosophy was very prominent. In Dharvanga, logic was very prominent.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Author -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Author: I must start off from the beginning for the person who reads the book, and the beginning for the person who reads the book is: here are these people wearing these strange clothes and doing these strange things. Now, why? Now, that's what I've got to do in the book. And in order to do this it's necessary to describe some of these physical characteristics. And my reason for doing this is, in order to define what is relevant, it's necessary also to define what is irrelevant. That's pure logic.

Devotee: But Prabhupāda wants that you should have the highest understanding, not just looking at it from their point of view, but if you present it from our point of view, then it can gain the realest, greatest understanding.

Author: Well, with respect, I think that can only, we can only consider that question in practice. When I actually write the material, you'll have to...

Prabhupāda: No. I mean to say, why there is objection if they are dressed in a particular way?

Author: Oh, I'm not objecting to it at all. In fact, it's one of the most reasons why I'm most strongly in favor of the Hare Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: So they are Hare Kṛṣṇa people, they dress in a particular way. That is the answer. That's all.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Jayatīrtha: In logic, if the hypothesis is wrong then the conclusion is wrong.

Prabhupāda: The hypothesis is always wrong.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: If the starting point is wrong, then there is nothing...

Prabhupāda: Then there cannot be any perfect knowledge. So the modern so-called scientists, philosophers, their starting point is wrong. Just like a great scientist... Darwin is a scientist?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He's not a scientist. He's called a naturalist.

Prabhupāda: Naturalist. Anyway, you can call him a philosopher. So the basic point is wrong. Starting is wrong. Starting point is mistake and illusion. Therefore, the next point is cheating. If you start from wrong conception of life, then if you distribute knowledge, that means cheating. You do not know, still you are distributing knowledge. But this rascal Darwin, he has no clear idea. He is simply theorizing, speculating, and misleading people. Therefore, he is cheating. So if I cheat you and you cheat me, then how you can expect perfection of life? It is a society of cheating, and that is actually going on. Everyone is thinking, "How I have gorgeous way cheated you." That is politics, diplomacy. If you can cheat your friend very cleverly, then you are supposed to be very big man. Big lawyer means the law is there, but if he can cheat the law, then he is big lawyer.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So their conclusion is like that. Because they see that the insects are coming from the sand. So from matter, this life is coming. This is their logic. It is called in Sanskrit: taṇḍula-vṛścika-nyāya. Everything is discussed. Taṇḍula-vṛścika-nyāya. You know taṇḍula-vṛścika-nyāya?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No.

Prabhupāda: Taṇḍula means rice.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Rice?

Prabhupāda: Rice. And vṛścika means scorpion. The scorpions enter within the heaps of rice and lay their eggs. And by heat of the rice, they, another baby vṛścika come out. And when they're coming out of the, that taṇḍula, rice, the rascals are thinking that the rice is begetting the vṛścika. They do not know the inner secrecy that another vṛścika, scorpion, has laid down the eggs within the rice, and by the fermentation of the heat of the rice, the eggs are fructified and the living entities coming out. Taṇḍula-vṛścika-nyāya. (pause)

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: By logic.

Prabhupāda: By logic, by science. Anyway, that we have to make program. Because this is most misleading. The whole human society is affected by this misleading theory. We have to make program, go from place to place and invite all big men, all scientists. That program we have to make. We cannot allow this nonsense theory to go on. We must make something. Brahmānanda, how to make this? This is a fact, that, that life comes from life. In another sense life does not come. Life is existing. It is not exactly the word that life generates, no. Life is existing. The matter is generated. Matter is generating, and it stays for some time, again it is vanished. Just like this body. This body is born at a certain date, and it will be finished at a certain date. This is matter. (break) The wood was born at a certain date from the tree. It remains green for certain time. Then it is not green, dry. Then, after some time, it will be finished. Matter is not permanent. Matter is changing. Ṣaḍ-vikāra. Six kinds of changes, matter. Birth, then growing... Matter grows also. Just like the body has grown. It was very small, pea-like body in the beginning, and it grows.

Morning Walk -- May 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: According to the desire of the living entity. All facilities, whatever you want, you can have. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). Another logic is bakāṇḍa-nyāya. Bakāṇḍa. Baka and aṇḍa. Baka, the duck. And aṇḍa, the testicle, testicle of the bull. The bull is going and the testicle is hanging, and the duck is after it. He is thinking here is a fish. You find him always going...when it will drop. Bakāṇḍa. This is nature's study. (break) The baka, the duck, they are after fish. So the testicle is hanging, he's thinking it's a big fish, it will drop now. So it will never drop but he is going after it. Just see. Neither it is fish. Another logic is āja-gala-stana, āja-gala-stana. You have seen on the goats in the neck, just like nipples. If one is expecting milk from that nipple, he is also fool. It is not nipple but it looks like nipple. Āja-gala-stana-nyāya.

Morning Walk -- May 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Brahmānanda: But they are not getting, they are saying maybe in the future.

Prabhupāda: Yes, in future, yes. (laughter) In Sanskrit logic all these examples are there from nature's study.

Brahmānanda: Simple.

Prabhupāda: Simple, yes. Another is nagna-mātṛkā-nyāya. Nagna-mātṛkā-nyāya, just like sometimes if somebody says, "Mother, when you were a child, you were naked. Why do you put cloth now?" Nagna-mātṛkā-nyāya. The mother was naked when she was a child. Therefore she should remain naked still. That is nagna-mātṛkā-nyāya.

Brahmānanda: What is that in connection?

Prabhupāda: It has connection, if somebody was not very important and now he has become important, so the logic is how this man can be important? This logic. That because the mother was naked in the childhood, therefore she should not put on any garment. This is nagna-mātṛkā-nyāya. We change according to the circumstances. You cannot say that this must remain like this.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's so strange. When I read that book. He defines the difference between the living and the non-living by a term called teleonomy. I tried to find out in the dictionary and I couldn't find any word like that. But I understood that what he meant was...

Prabhupāda: Hyerpolosvel. (Prabhupāda's mythical scientific word) (laughter)

Kṛṣṇa-kāntī: He invents his own word jugglery.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He was trying to present the difference between organic beings and the non-organic beings. So he goes in such a round about fashion just to differentiate.

Prabhupāda: Petitio principii. This logic is called petitio principii. He has to prove something, but he is taking his premises from that something. (end)

Room Conversation With Three College Students -- July 11, 1973, London:

Student (1): I mean, if you stick to strict logic, you can't, no, right. I mean this isn't logical, is it?

Revatīnandana: Sometimes by logic you can find out what is false. What is truth, that we get from authority.

Student (1): You say it is logic because, say, everything in that book fits in with everything else, maybe. So it's a total form of logic in itself.

Student (3): Your logic starts from the assumption that the book is correct.

Prabhupāda: Then why you are arguing? That is logic. Why you are arguing? Why don't you accept what I say? Why you are arguing? That is logic.

Student (3): Because so many people say different things which conflict.

Prabhupāda: Therefore you are taking the shelter of logic. You are taking the shelter.

Student (1): Logic... Logic is arguing, isn't it?

Prabhupāda: No, logic means argument, reasoning. Our logic is because Kṛṣṇa is accepted by all great persons, authorities, we accept. Our logic is simple.

Room Conversation With Three College Students -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No, logic means argument, reasoning. Our logic is because Kṛṣṇa is accepted by all great persons, authorities, we accept. Our logic is simple.

Student (1): But Christians might say the same thing. They might say, "Look at the Bible, This is our logic."

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right. They accept God; we accept God. The only difference is they do not know who is God, but we know who is God.

Student (1): No, they know who is God.

Prabhupāda: No.

Revatīnandana: You won't get any good information about God. "God is great. God created"—finished. That's not very much information. God's son? A little more information about God's son.

Student (1): But you've got no more right to say you know who is God than they have.

Revatīnandana: Oh, well, we have a lot more information about God, you see.

Student: In which way?

Revatīnandana: In these Vedas. There's a difference between the arithmetic book you get in the first grade of school and the calculus book in terms of the amount of information. We can tell you more about God because the Vedas give more information than the Bible. But the basic principle—"God is there. God is a person"—is in both places.

Prabhupāda: Jesus Christ is son of God. Therefore God must be person. A person can beget a son.

Room Conversation with Malcolm -- July 18, 1973, London:

Śyāmasundara: Due to a larger number of people, is it possible to return all these people to the real goal?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. As there is medicine for certain disease, if, in that particular disease, the prescribed medicine is given, then the disease will be cured. Is it not? Medical science, they have discovered medicine for a certain type of disease. So if the diseased man takes that medicine, particular, then he'll be cured. Similarly, if people take what is the actual goal of life by philosophy and logic, then their goal of life will be one. He must agree to take it just like the diseased man must agree to take the medicine. Then he's cured.

Malcolm: If a man reaches his maturity of years and leaves a western school, and he has the words which say "Know thyself," may he reject his family ties?

Prabhupāda: No, there is no question of rejecting or accepting to understand the goal of life. The goal of life is meant for everyone. Maybe a family man or without family. It doesn't matter. Just like eating. Eating is for everyone. It doesn't matter whether he's a family man or not family man. It is his essential. Similarly, the goal of life is also essential to know for everyone. It doesn't matter whether he's family man or not family man. It doesn't matter.

Car Conversation after meeting with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: What that higher platform? Eating, you require to maintain the body. I eat something, you eat another. That does not mean higher or lower. You eat, I also eat. That's all. You eat according to your taste. I eat according to my taste. So the eating is the real symptom, not the varieties of eating. By varieties of eating, suppose I... A animal, the cow is eating grass, and you are eating the same animal by keeping a huge slaughterhouse with machines and... Does it mean that you have improved your eating process? Simply by having big, big machine and ghastly scenes. And the animal eats simple grass. Does it mean that you are advanced than the animals? There is no logic. Eating is eating. One man's food, another man's poison. That is another thing. But eating is there. Somebody eats poison. Somebody eats ordinary thing. But eating is there. So nobody can avoid eating. That is the main symptom. Even in human society, there are different varieties of food. We Indians, we like a different type of dish. European, Americans, they like a di... But eating is there. Either American, Indian or cats, dogs, eating must be there. That is real symptom. After eating, you must sleep. That is essential. So where is the difference of real character, characteristic between the animals and the human beings?

Car Conversation after meeting with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Well. Now in India, meat is selling at high price than vegetable. Yes.

Yogeśvara: He said now in India meat is selling at a higher price than vegetables.

Prabhupāda: That is no logic.

Yogeśvara: Not logic.

Prabhupāda: Price of meat is higher than milk and vegetables. So in that consideration, why not take vegetable and milk. Why you go to meat? So she is driving taxi, girls also drive taxi?

Yogeśvara: Oh, yes.

Satsvarūpa: In New York City, they also drive taxi.

Prabhupāda: Girls?

Satsvarūpa: Yes. They get more business. (end)

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: That, that, he has no eyes. How I have got my continuity of my childhood thoughts and now also? Just like for a old man. He hasn't got so much sexual power, but the sex continuity is there. He wants to enjoy. Therefore he takes some medicine. He takes some injection. Why? The continuity. That means the continuity is mind. The gross body has changed. The mind is there, subtle. Intelligence is there. That is continuity. And that continuity, that subtle body, mind and intelligence, carry me to another body, as it is doing now. My gross body has changed, but mind and intelligence continuing. Similarly when this body will be completely finished, my mind and intelligence will carry me to another gross body. Then in the womb of my mother I shall grow another gross body. The mind and intelligence being continued. And I get a particular type of body on the condition of mind and intelligence at the time of death. Death means finishing this body. But the mind and intelligence is the same. As the air carries the flavor. This is the logic. Everything is...

Guru-gaurāṅga: So is subtle body ever finished?

Prabhupāda: Subtle body can be finished when you are liberated from material bondage.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Well, man or somebody, but try to understand generally: Anything that you see, that is created by man or beast or somebody. It is created. So this cosmic manifestation, why do you say that it is not created? It is created. You do not know who has created. That is your ignorance. But as I have no experience, in this material world, which is not created... It is created. You are created. Still. How can you say it is not created?

Guru-gaurāṅga: But then the profane, Prabhupāda, they say that: "Let us carry that logic to the very end, that even God is created. Then why... You say God is having no..."

Prabhupāda: No. No. God is created, you can say. But when a created thing is, then he's not God. Our, our proposition is that everything is created, but finally if we find somebody, he's not created, then he's God.

Yogeśvara: They would say: our conclusion was just now that everything has to have been created.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yogeśvara: Everything has some source of origin.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Why should you be bad qualified? (Bengali) Logic, it is logical. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Where is the illogic. You have passed your childhood body, you have passed your youth-hood body, you are in a different body. Although you are in a different body, you are existing. What better logic you can discover? You cannot discover any better logic than this. Don't accuse that we are illogical, don't accuse. We are logical, completely logical. But we have got brain to understand. Yes. Logic, you can put forward, but one must have the brain to understand it. If one is dull like stone, how he can understand logic? This is very clear logic. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na... (BG 2.13), dhīraḥ, one who is sober, coolheaded, he understands. "Yes, it is all right."

Guest (2): I have taken quite a lot of your time, if you'll excuse me.

Prabhupāda: No, my time is for this purpose, provided you kindly take it. But if you don't take it, then of course, that is a different thing. My time is spent for... I have dedicated my life for this purpose. I am touring all over the world giving this knowledge. It is sound logic. If you don't accept, you must give better logic, what you know. Don't think we are going under sentiment. Don't think like that. We have got sound logic.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but if you are not prepared, then you learn how to become prepared. Then the same conclusion comes, that logic, you can give to the animals, but he cannot take it.

Guest (2): I don't think that logic can explain anything.

Prabhupāda: No, logic cannot. But still as much logic you require, that logic is there.

Guest (2): Yes, but I don't know what Mr. Howard wants logic about, I don't know. But logic cannot explain anything and everything. And if mathematics or arithmetic, if we go through them, at one stage we can prove ten is equal to zero or nine is equal to zero. It is also possible by step by step...

Prabhupāda: That may be possible, but it has no practical use. It has no practical use. If the banker gives you zero and you accept nine, then it is practical. But if you theoretically say all these things, that you may keep it in your pocket, but practically it has no use. Nine equal to zero and two equal to zero. That is not practical use.

Guest (2): As far as logic, I don't think logic can explain anything and everything.

Prabhupāda: No, then it is skepticism. There is no progress of knowledge. There is no progress of knowledge. As far as man can understand, as Mr., you are Mr. Bannerji?

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Howler? Yes. So, there is little logic there, as a human being can understand. That's all. And if we accept this theory, that logic, our logic is imperfect, we cannot understand, then we have to accept authority. Just like a child. Mother says, "Here is your father." There is no logic. There is no logic. He has to accept. Only the mother version is logic, That's all. Authority. Is it not?

Guest (1): Yes, that's true.

Prabhupāda: Then where there is no logic, the authority must be accepted. Therefore we accept that authority. Śabda-pramāṇa. The best evidence. Śabda-pramāṇa. There are different evidences. Out of that, veda-pramāṇa, śabda-pramāṇa is first class. All right, thank you very much. Jaya.

Mukunda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, Pearl has been attending our temple and following the regulative principles.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Give me little water. When they come to logic, when they give logic. (laughter)

Guest (1): Prabhupāda, they don't want any.

Prabhupāda: That is the dog's obstinacy. That is the mentality.

Guest (1): They lost their intelligence, by this civilization or by this culture.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Adānta-gobhir, by losing that intelligence they are going to the hell. They do not know it. Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram (SB 7.5.30). By uncontrolled senses... Because as soon as they come to spiritual life, they have to control senses. So that they do not like. That is very difficult.

Guest (1): Like he said: "I'm not prepared for that."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Actually they are not prepared. Then you suffer.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: They are not prepared because as soon as they understand that they are going to be one these varieties of life, they shudder. Therefore they do not like to understand this. If by logic I prove that you are going to be a dog next life, that is very difficult. Just like one astrologer has said that Jawaharlal Nehru has become a dog in Sweden. You know that?

Guest (1): No, I don't.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In Delhi, one astrologer.

Guest (1): Delhi, some astrologer said?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: So we are simply trying to revive people's dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So every sane man, every good government, everyone should come forward to help this movement. It is not a personal affair. We are not presenting that "I am avatāra, I am God." We are presenting science, philosophy. You see? Why we are taking so much trouble to write so many books? If we... We want to convince people through science, philosophy, logic, religious principle, by practical behavior. All these boys are being trained up not to have any illicit sex, not to eat meat, and not to take any intoxication up to tea, coffee, cigarette and not to indulge in gambling. They're doing that. So we are making men of character, men of religion, men of philosophy. Why people should not cooperate with us? We are not presenting any blind, so-called religious faith. No. That is not our business. Our business is śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-dayā karaha vicāra. You understand little Bengali? You understand Hindi.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda:

śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-dayā karaha vicāra
vicāra karile citte pābe camatkāra
(CC Adi 8.15)

If you are sane man, if you give due consideration, and then give your judgement, then you'll find that it is wonderful. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-dayā karaha vicāra. We don't say that you take it blindly. No. Vicāra. After full logic, and consideration, you accept, not blindly. But if you do that, you'll see it is wonderful. It is wonder... So why those who are advanced in education, they should not take this movement seriously and try to understand seriously and cooperate with us? It is not a blind thing. So... Actually, from government level, we are not getting any support. Not... I don't speak in India. Anywhere.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: They have no brain. The same thing, the crows. So therefore they have to be enlightened to Kṛṣṇa consciousness then they will be able to find out some big leader, nice leader for them. There are so many things. You are educated. You should try to understand our philosophy. There are so many things to be learned from our... They're not sentimentally dancers only. They've got logic, philosophy, science, everything. Otherwise how we are writing so many books? Just see, ancient word, how they are nicely, these two verses we have read. How full of meaning. Na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo. Harer, pragṛṇīta karhicit, tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham (SB 1.5.10), each word has volumes of meanings. There are 18,000 verses in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And each word you'll find enlivening. Each word. It's such a nice literature. One verse contains actually sixteen words. So 18,000 multiplied by sixteen, how much?

Dr. Hauser: 18,000...

Prabhupāda: 18,000 verses multiplied by sixteen. How many words?

Dr. Hauser: 280,000. Yes.

Prabhupāda: 280,000 words and each word you'll find a new light. That is (indistinct). Each word you'll find.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Metaphysics department is there. I was also a student of philosophy. That is theories only. Of course, they are trying, psychology, metaphysics, ethics. You were also a student of philosophy?

Banker: I took some courses. My major courses were in business. But I took some in philosophy, ethic, logic.

Prabhupāda: So apart from that metaphysical, from this worldly platform, there must be divisions. Just like in your bank, if everyone is manager, that is not possible. There must be clerks and other assistants. So that is required. The society must be divided into four classes. That is brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra.

Banker: My question is how does one determine into which part he goes?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is by tendency. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). By the tendency. Therefore one has to approach the spiritual master. He will give direction that "This boy is meant for becoming a brāhmaṇa." Everyone has got some tendency. From the tendency it should be designated. Or by work.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Therefore I have already explained. There must be a class of men like me. They are called brāhmaṇa. They should help others. One who cannot rise so early, they will help him by his knowledge. He, the man who cannot rise early in the morning and cannot take the brahminical principle, śūdra, kṣatriya, vaiśya, he should be helped with the knowledge acquired by the brāhmaṇa. Just like the same example. The leg. Leg is not brain. The brain will give direction to the leg, "You go this side." Then it is perfect. The leg has no brain, but the brain is there. If he takes the advice of the brain and goes... Just like... It is called the logic of blind and lame. There is a lame man and there is a blind man. The lame man cannot walk, and the blind man cannot see. They should join. The blind man took the lame man on his shoulder, and the lame man giving direction, and the blind man is going nicely. So by the cooperation of the blind and the lame, the work is done perfectly. Andha-kañjatā-nyāya. Similarly, it is not required that everyone has to become brāhmaṇa. Neither it is possible.

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Eternal, but it is manifested and not manifested. Just like conservation of energy. That is the... Energy is manifested, sometimes not manifested. (break) But nonmanifested does not mean that... (break) ...energy.

Karandhara: But the definition of the Absolute Truth is inconceivable, so it must violate the logic.

Prabhupāda: Ah?

Karandhara: Their logic...

Prabhupāda: No, it's inconceivable by them, not by us. Therefore we call them fools. It is not inconceivable by us. But so you know the Truth from the Truth, Absolute Truth. A layman or a foolish boy does not know where..., which side the sun will rise. His father can say, "This side it will rise." That is the difference. Because he knows how to suggest which side, because there is reddish, how do you say? Illumination. He knows that "This side it will rise," by the symptom. Both of them, the foolish man and the intelligent man, just at present do not see that where is the sun. But the intelligent man knows "Here is the sun," although the sun is not visible both to the intelligent and foolish man. That intelligence means he knows how to find out where is sun. That is intelligence. And this is not discovery. I am intelligent speaking "This side is sun." It is not my discovery. I have heard from authority that from the eastern direction the sun rises, so I know it.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Umāpati: They say, "Man was made in the image of God," and now women are saying, "Women are made in the image of God. Therefore God is female." And that is their logic.

Prabhupāda: No, no, man or woman, you cannot create God. That is the first proposal. God is not your creation. You are creation of God. You cannot say, "God should be like this. God should be like that." That is nonsense. God is not under your dictation. You are under the dictation of God. That is God. If you manufacture, if you dictate, then how He is God? He's your dog. Just like a dog. He dictates. He abides by your order. He's not God. He's dog. What is the scientist says? Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The scientist says that God didn't... One of the astronomers said that "If I were present at the time of creation..."

Prabhupāda: Ah, you were present. Therefore you are a rascal. You were not allowed to (be) present. Therefore God is great. You are a rascal. God did not allow you to be present there. Now you are lamenting. Therefore God is great.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But tradition, what is that tradition? Tradition is here, in the proof. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). The reference is given to the quality, guṇa, and karma, and action. How you can simply say that because I'm born in such and such family, therefore I have also the same thing. Because my father was high-court judge, therefore I am high-court judge. Is that very good logic? How you became superior? You have to prove your superiority by your qualification and actual work. This is very nice. The world is accepting like that. Somebody's coming to you to accept some scientific instruction. He accepts you're superior in scientific knowledge, not for your birth, but for your quality and work. That is fact. So you first of all come to the platform of the quality and work, then you claim superior.

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That doesn't matter. You become God. But our point is there is need of God.

Karandhara: Well, on that basis, on that logic they would say, "Yes, there is need, but we can fill that need."

Prabhupāda: You fill, that's all right, but if you cannot... That is the question. (laughter) Our definition of God is that He maintains everyone. Can you maintain everyone?

Karandhara: They are thinking they are maintaining.

Prabhupāda: They again thinking. What is your present position? You are maintained. You cannot maintain. You are maintained by your boss. He gives you some salary and you fill up your bellies. You rascal, you want to be maintainer. You cannot maintain even a family of five heads. Therefore we say, all full of rascals. Harāv abhaktasya kuto... That is our śāstric conclusion. Anyone who is atheist, nondevotee, he is a rascal number one. Bās. It doesn't matter what post he holds. Our conclusion is that he is a rascal number one. That's all. He cannot have any good qualification. There is need of God.

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: But unless they understand the difference between spirit and matter, they can't accept this logic.

Prabhupāda: Well, foolish men cannot accept any logic. Their logic is stick. "If you don't accept, I shall kick on your face. Accept it." That is the... That is wanted.

Karandhara: Like the example when Hitler killed the Jews. They will say, "Well, what should we do, just let Hitler go on killing the Jews because the Jews were sinful? Or should we try and stop Hitler?"

Prabhupāda: Well, Hitler was imperfect and everything was imperfect. That you cannot compare Hitler's action with God's action. God is all-perfect. That is first proposition. God is all-perfect.

Karandhara: That may be accepted in retrospection, but when it is happening, they don't accept that.

Prabhupāda: No, that is their ignorance, foolishness. Therefore a devotee will not say like that. A devotee will say, tat te 'nukampāṁ susamīkṣamāṇaḥ: (SB 10.14.8) "My dear Lord, I am suffering. It is due to my past mischievous activities, but you are rescuing me by giving little punishment. I would have been punished more, but you have given little punishment. Thank you very much." This is devotion.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...origin of everything, animate or inanimate.

Prajāpati: Jaya. Your lecture this morning was brilliant, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Your logic could defeat anybody. (Prabhupāda chuckles) The theological rascals, though, they will not accept any authority except their own mind. They are such nonsense.

Prabhupāda: That is called mano-dharmī. In Sanskrit it is called mano-dharmī, mental speculators.

Prajāpati: It's a disease, actually.

Prabhupāda: And therefore, mental speculators, they have been condemned. Manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). Because they carry on, or they are carried by the chariot of mind, manorathena. Manorathena asati. Manoratha, when you drive on the chariot of mind, you cannot get any fixed idea. Because mind is flickering. Saṅkalpa-vikalpa. Mind's business is "Accept this, and again reject it." So all these speculators are doing. Somebody is putting forward some theory, and after some years he will himself reject or somebody else will reject. So manorathena, by mental speculation, you remain on the material platform. You cannot get any spiritual idea. Therefore harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Anyone who is not in the spiritual platform... Spiritual platform means to be a devotee of the Lord. The Māyāvādīs, because they are not devotees of the Lord, they are not on the spiritual platform. They are on the material platform.

Room Conversation -- March 20, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, they are against this movement, that I have got many proofs.

Guest: But if they will logically...

Prabhupāda: Logic, there is no logic.

Guest: No, but what I say. If they are appeased...

Prabhupāda: Argumentum baculam. Their logic is sword.

Guest: No, but what I say... The basic problem is that if the center is against, if the (indistinct) man, is against...

Prabhupāda: That I know that they are against.

Guest: If the (indistinct) men is against, therefore they are disclosing their weakness.

Prabhupāda: And indirectly, Indira Gandhi sometimes said that... Many politicians have said. In London, the high commissioner, he said, "Swamiji, your movement is so nice." He's a Maharastrian Pant. Pant. So... But we cannot do anything of this way.

Guest: No, but if the center is against, then my logic says...

Prabhupāda: Center is against.

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Devāṁs, devāṁs, tava deva dehe means "devas, the demigods, they are part and parcel of Your virāṭa-rupa." They are not independent. Just like this finger is part of my this whole body, similarly, all these devas, these demigods... That is explained previously. Ye 'py anya-devatā bhaktā yajante śraddhayānvitāḥ, te 'pi mām eva. If you give something to my finger, that is to be given to my body, but that is avidhi-pūrvakam. The thing's to be given to the mouth, not in the hand. But their logic is, because everything is the same, why not here? That is Māyāvāda. Yes.

Dr. Patel:

paśyāmi devāṁs tava deva dehe
sarvāṁs tathā bhūta-viśeṣa-saṅghān
brahmāṇam īśaṁ kamalāsana-stham
ṛṣīṁś ca sarvān uragāṁś ca divyān
(BG 11.15)

Prabhupāda: Yes, Brahmā rāmeśvaram. Rāmeśvaram means Viṣṇu. Rāma īśvara, and Brahmā, Lord Brahmā, and...

Morning Walk -- April 10, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...sometimes dog attacks the master. Not only dog, animals. (break) ...the bitterest enemies of the demons, always. That is the position. Viṣṇu-bhakto bhaved daiva āsuras tad-viparyayaḥ. So demigods, they are devotees of Viṣṇu, and they are always enemies unto the demons. (break) ...especially in the heart of the saintly person, to kill the saintly person. So Kṛṣṇa also will be killed. Because Kṛṣṇa is in everyone's heart, therefore everyone is Kṛṣṇa. The same conclusion.

Mahāṁsa: That does not show any logic, because He is in everybody's heart, how can anyone be Kṛṣṇa? (break)

Prabhupāda: He is in the heart of a dog also. Then dog is also Kṛṣṇa. So why one should go to the temple? He can worship his dog at home. If this logic is all right. (break) ...the verdict of the Rāmakrishna mission, "You can worship whatever you like. That is God." And therefore they have manufactured this word, daridra-nārāyaṇa. (break) Jāta-karma-saṁskāra, saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. Saṁskāra, reformatory method, begins before the birth. Before the birth, when the father and mother have sex, that is called garbhādhāna-saṁskāra. That is also another ceremony. It is not a hidden fact.

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Satsvarūpa: To imagine that God has a form. Man imagines God, not that God exists originally, but man imagines God based on his own form.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Anthropomorphism it is called. They create a form, but that is not the fact. God has His eternal form. That I explained. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1). Vigraha means form. And it is sac-cid-ānanda, means eternal, full of knowledge and... Just like Kṛṣṇa is speaking Bhagavad-gītā. People are accepting, because that is real knowledge. And nobody reads other books so carefully. And this Bhagavad-gītā is read all over the world. All big, big scholars, big, big philosophers, theologists, they read. Because that is real knowledge. That is the proof. It is real knowledge. Cit. Sac-cid. And one who is giving real knowledge, it is natural conclusion, he has got eternal body. We cannot give real knowledge because we forget. As we change our body, we forget. Just like at night we dream, but we forget the body, this body. In another body we go to some dreamland. So because we change body therefore we forget. And because Kṛṣṇa is giving knowledge perfect, past, present and future, therefore it means that He has got eternal body. This is the proof. One should understand everything with logic. Is it not? We forget because we have no eternal body. Last birth, what I was, what you were, we have forgotten, because changed body. Death means forgetting. So because Kṛṣṇa is giving perfect knowledge of past, future and present, therefore it is to be understood that He has got eternal body. And eternal body means there is no misery. Misery means janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9), to take birth, to die... (aside:) (Hare Kṛṣṇa.) And to suffer from disease, to suffer from old age. These are the miseries. So because Kṛṣṇa hasn't got this temporary body, therefore He is not suffering from these things. Therefore Kṛṣṇa, you will see always, young man. You will never see Kṛṣṇa's picture as old man, because He is eternal body. This is the conclusion.

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: And the night clubs.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Naked woman, that's all. Both sides it is there. They advertise. Here... In America, anywhere you deposit forty dollars. Next day you get everything. (break) ...they say, "This year it is now reduced." Mean "Criminality, let go on, but from the last year, this year it is now reduced." That's all. (break) "...are drinking. Therefore you cannot call me drunkard." This is the logic. (break) These rogues and thieves will increase. That is the law of nature. Men... (breaks) They have a fire(?). (break) ...took down. (break) ...police, they simply only note down.

Dr. Patel: In America also, like here?

Prabhupāda: That's all. My things were stolen from my apartment in the beginning, so I went to the police. They simply noted down. That's all. (break) ...you can narrate the incidents when the negro at San Francisco...

Lilavati: Yes, we were...

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Kṣatriya, this is all finished. Now only śūdras and, little vaiśyas there are.

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 2, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...arrange meetings in the school, colleges, societies, big, big halls. Because they may not come. They are not attracted to the temple meetings. They think, "This temple is temple, some priestly class." They want philosophy, logic, science. So they have to be convinced. Not sentiments. So those who are advanced, they are not in favor of religious sentiments, because they have got experience, "Now, some sentiments..." But they do not understand what is this sentiment. Therefore they have to be understood through logic, philosophy, science. (break)

Girirāja: ...meeting a week from Saturday.

Prabhupāda: Oh, where?

Girirāja: Well, it's on Marine Drive. Somebody just became a life member, but he is inviting six hundred guests on the terrace of the building.

Prabhupāda: Very good. This kind of meeting should be arranged. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) It is also our business, to kill all undesirable men so-called swamis, yogis, avatāras. What is that? Kṛṣṇa...

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (indistinct) consider what kind of life I'm going to get. (indistinct) They have made their own rascal philosophy that there is no life after death. Although they're experiencing that I am changing my body in this duration of life. I know that I have a child's body, child's body. That body's finished. Still I'm existing. So why I shall not exist after this body's finished? Where is the logic? Where is the... The simple logic they cannot understand. So dull brain. And they're advanced in civilization, big, big professor, big, big Indologist, this logic. The simple reason they cannot understand. What did they say? You have talked to many men about this logic?

Guru-gaurāṅga: About life after death?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: They say it doesn't go beyond... They have to agree that the baby's body is gone and the young man's body is gone. They have to agree. But they say that that doesn't mean logically that I have to take another body.

Prabhupāda: What is the other logic? If you have changed your body so many times, why not change this body? What is your reason? Natural course it should be that I have changed so many bodies so this body I shall change. This is natural logic. And what is his logic?

Satsvarūpa: So he said... They say it may be or it may not be.

Prabhupāda: But that is your rascaldom. But this is the real logic.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva:

Guru-gaurāṅga: But it is just developed, but it is not a different body.

Prabhupāda: No. Developed means different body. Development means different body. They cannot say it is not different body. Then if it is not different, then go to childhood again. That means they're not human being. Human being means with logic. According to their definition, man is rational animal. They're not even rational. Like cats and dogs. There is no rationality. Cats and dogs also they have got rationality. Logic plus authority, Kṛṣṇa says. How you can deny? That means they don't agree with Kṛṣṇa's instruction. You see? This logic, I am not giving this logic. This logic is given by Kṛṣṇa. So unless... The difficulty is that unless they accept the authority, it is very difficult. Logic is there. The authority is there.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: They feel, Prabhupāda, that they've been cheated so much by so many philosophies that when we say that the Vedas are written by a person who's not contaminated by the modes of nature, they say, "Well, how is this possible? My experience is that everyone who's written books, they're all materialistic and therefore the philosophy must be like that."

Prabhupāda: But you must be following some philosophy. You're not without philosophy. Even the hippies they're also follow... They've got their own philosophy.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: I cannot see the president. That does not mean there is no president.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: Because I cannot see therefore there's no president. Is that very good logic?

Devotee: No.

Prabhupāda: You may not see. You're unfit to see. You're not qualified to see. But why there shall be no God?

Satsvarūpa: I was taught that that is God's nature, invisible spirit.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Devotee: I was taught in religion that God... That is His nature, not that I can't see Him, but He is a person. But that I can't see Him because He's invisible spirit.

Prabhupāda: Invisible. That means you have no eyes to see. Even if He is spirit. That's all right. But invisible means you have no capacity to see. That is the meaning of invisible. That I cannot see. So you're disqualified, that does not mean He's dis... not visible. He's visible but not to you because you have no eyes to see Him. That we also say. Therefore we have to prepare the eyes to see. That is religion. I cannot see at the present moment that does not mean I shall stop (indistinct). I must prepare myself how to see. That is real intelligence. (end)

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:
Prabhupāda: So that is also good, and it is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, ārto arthārthī jñānī ca catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ. Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtino 'rjuna, ārtaḥ. Ārtaḥ means distress, ārtaḥ, one who is distressed. "I have no food, sir, my dear Lord. Kindly give me some food." So he is distressed, so he is praying to God because he is pious. The Communists say, "Why you are praying to God? You pray to us, the government. We shall give you enough bread." The Communist propaganda is like that. They send the people to the church, "So you pray." So they pray. "Have you got bread?" They say, "No, sir." "Now pray to us." "Give us, sir," and he gives hundreds of breads. In this way, they are making atheist. Because common man cannot argue, neither they know so much logic. But if there is some intelligent man, he will ask immediately that "Wherefrom you have got this bread? Who has given you the wheat? That you have not manufactured; that is given by God." So actually God gives, but the Communists take the credit that "I give." This is the misconception. If God does not supply you... Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān, He is supplying for everyone. So if He does not supply, then what your bakery machine will do? It is useless.
Room Conversation with Russian Orthodox Church Representative -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: What does he mean by logic?

Yogeśvara: He says that means that it's not something that's very evident to me.

Prabhupāda: It may not be evident to him, but why not others? (French)

Yogeśvara: He says one thing is that he feels kind of glad that it's more or less a question of opinion because if it was Absolute Truth, then it would be too restricting for everyone.

Prabhupāda: No, it is Absolute Truth. But there are different ways of understanding Absolute Truth. He is taking only one way, direct perception. (French)

Yogeśvara: He said, if it were an absolute truth, it would be evident to everyone.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But everyone is not advanced in knowledge. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says the question remains because there are other, very spiritually advanced men who don't accept that idea.

Prabhupāda: No, somebody may be known as spiritually advanced according to the society, but he may not be. So another thing is that what is the way of understanding the Absolute Truth. Let him explain. What is the standard way of understanding Absolute Truth? (French)

Room Conversation with Russian Orthodox Church Representative -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Karandhara: But it's not just an opinion. It's not just a secular idea. By scientific principle, if we consider the logic of all the propositions of Bhagavad-gītā in relation to the Bible and Koran, if we're actually impartial and open, then we'll understand that truth. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of superior logic, extending the same basic truths to their highest perfection. So in discussing the merits of Bhagavad-gītā versus another scripture, it's not that we're trying to argue just for the sake of polemics but to establish the real standard, what is the most elevated or advanced standard of the knowledge.

Bhagavān: But people are suffering due to lack of that accurate knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Russian Orthodox Church Representative -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Karandhara: So then the... If the Vaiṣṇava philosophy has a systematic logic, then integrity would dictate that we have to surrender or accept that logic. If a logic is true, we can't stand apart from it and simply observe it. We have to accept it ourselves.

Church Representative: (French)

Bhagavān: You are right on the brink of Absolute Truth. Don't run away. (laughs)

Yogeśvara: He says that even though he has a great interest in this discussion, because he has prior commitments, he's unable to stay.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That's all...

Bhagavān: Take some prasādam. (French)

Yogeśvara: He already has the books.

Prabhupāda: He has our...? He has got...? (French) That's all right. He has got.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Bhagavān: So an interpretation of a scripture, whether it be Bible or Bhagavad-gītā, cannot simply be an opinion, but it must be based on logic and reason.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like in the Bible it is said, "There was only word in the beginning." So in the beginning, there was word. That means that word is not the word of this material creation.

Yogeśvara: Just like these Guru Maharajis. They say you cannot chant the name Kṛṣṇa because it's simply a material sound. They say the name is material.

Prabhupāda: That's it. The rascal does not understand what is this sound. He does not see that there was word before creation.

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: This is called ardha-kukkuṭī-nyāya (Cc. Ādi-līlā 5.176). If you... I will explain. Ardha-kukkuṭī-nyāya means there is a logic of accepting half of the chicken. The chicken or what is called, cock, that?

Haṁsadūta: Oh, the rooster, hens.

Prabhupāda: Hens, rooster, rooster. No, the female is called hen?

Haṁsadūta: Hen.

Prabhupāda: Hen. The hen is giving egg and, by the backside, by the rectum, and eating by the mouth. So one man is considering that "This mouthpiece is expensive because I have to give to eat. Better cut it." So if the mouth is cut, then there will be no egg because it's a dead body. So this is not good logic, (laughing) that the expensive portion may be cut and the profitable portion may be kept. This kind of interpretation will not be helpful. If you accept the whole, this side and that side, then business will go on.

Morning Walk at Marina del Rey -- July 12, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Then where is the difference between the scientists and the devotees? The devotees, devotee accepts what Kṛṣṇa says. That's all. Granted. (japa) In the śāstra it is said that acintyā khalu ye bhāvā na tās tarkeṇa yojayet, yojayet. "Things which are beyond your conception or perception, don't bring it in arguments and logic."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is from Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu? Acintyā khalu ye bhāvā...?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: If they think a little carefully. Then there is no reason why they can't accept Him.

Prabhupāda: That you have to do, to convince them that "You think little carefully. You are advertising yourself as scientist, but you are talking without any care."

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Revealed. It is revealed. Hm? Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā the vibration is coming from Kṛṣṇa. Now, you practically realize it: "Yes, what is said is correct." That is direct perception. First of all, you receive the message, and then apply your logic and see that it is fact. Therefore it is perfect. When you receive the knowledge and when you directly apply it to your perception, when you see it is correct, that is the proof that the message which you received, that is correct.

Professor: Very difficult to have proofs of that, where the eternality of your own ātman for instance, things of that...

Prabhupāda: That is called realization. Yes. First of all you receive the sound, then apply your instruments, and when you find it, it is correct—that is the realization. So our process is to receive knowledge from the perfect. That's all. We are not perfect. But the knowledge we are getting, that is perfect. So according to that perfect direction, if we mold our life, then we are successful. Otherwise you go on experimenting, speculating. Ciraṁ vicinvan. Ciram, you understand, "perpetually," vicinvan, "thinking." Ciraṁ vicinvan.

Interview -- March 5, 1975, New York:

Prabhupāda: Huh? What is that? I...

Śrutakīrti: You have defeated her.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Female Reporter: (laughs) But I'm not going to pursue your line of logic. And what do you do for fun?

Prabhupāda: No, that is natural defeat. You cannot avoid it. (laughter)

Female Reporter: I can't what?

Devotee: You cannot avoid it.

Female Reporter: Again, what do you do to have a good time in New York?

Prabhupāda: A sixteen-years-old boy can travel all over the world, and it is very difficult for a sixteen-years-old girl to travel all over the world.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Theosophy and theology is practically the same.

Prajāpati: No, theosophy is nonsense Buddhist...

Prabhupāda: But according to academic order, logic is the preliminary study of philosophy. Our, our professor, Dr. Watt (?), he defined like that. In 1917...-(Aside:) Come on.-There was the governor in Bengal, Lord Ronaldsey (?), Marquis of Zetland. He was a Scottish man. And our college was Scottish Churches College-(aside:) Get the light. So... don't lean. You'll feel sleep. Just like sit my Guru Mahārāja. Show the picture. Be... Become my Guru Mahārāja. Yes. That sitting is the yogāsana. I am gone to hell. (laughter) You are young men. You learn from my Guru Mahārāja.

Pañcadraviḍa: No leaning.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Pañcadraviḍa: No leaning.

Prabhupāda: No. You'll never see any picture, he was leaning. So that Lord Ronaldsey (?) was very good scholar. So we were... When he was invited, he was taken to all the classes. So I was, at that time, in the second year. So I took permission to sit down in the first benches. The... Our college was very big. So in each class there were 150 students.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: "Then why you put theology?" That is our point. "Then why you have put this theology?" "There's no use talking of God"—that is another thing. But when you make "logy," you must come to logic. "Logy" means discussion. Is it not? "Logy" means science?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of "logy"?

Ravīndra-svarūpa: Knowledge

Prabhupāda: Hmmm? Find out this dictionary meaning.

Prajāpati: Logic is the rational ordering of thoughts in words.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: No, no. "Logy."

Śrutakīrti: "Logy" is not here.

Pañcadraviḍa: Logic.

Prabhupāda: Logic.

Śrutakīrti: Logic is here. "Scheme of or trustees (?) on, science of reasoning..."

Prabhupāda: That... That...

Śrutakīrti: "...chain of reasoning, arguments, logical..."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śrutakīrti: "...of logic, in conformity with principles of logic."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Science of reasoning.

Prajāpati: In words.

Prabhupāda: So "logy" means logic.

Acyutānanda: If you say what you are..., your own theory, cannot be done, that's illogical.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: So why don't you take advantage of this?

Haṁsadūta: Yeah, we do... (break)

Satsvarūpa: ...it's no longer logical. But by the same logic...

Prabhupāda: No, it is... That is the meaning of God. Everything comes from Him, but He's self-sufficient. That is God.

Brahmānanda: But they say that the chunk was always there.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Brahmānanda: They say the chunk was always there.

Prabhupāda: No, chunk was not always there. Just like the earth was not always there. It was covered by water. A chunk is nothing but an earth, a piece of earth. So... So there was no chunk. Everything was covered with water. Wherefrom the chunk came? Wherefrom the water came? Then wherefrom the fire came? There are so many things.

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Then? What is the use of "They say"? You say. When you'll say "They say," I'll say "They say," (laughter) my authorities. My authorities. If you defy my authority, why shall I accept your authority? Then come to plain logic.

Madhudviṣa: Well, you look at the earth, and you see it. It is stationary.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Madhudviṣa: Just like we look at the building over there. From a distance, it is stationary. But if we go inside, we can see there is so much movement.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Madhudviṣa: So similarly, you may walk by this earth every day and see it is stationary, but if you analyze it underneath a microscope, you will see that there is so much movement going on within.

Prabhupāda: But that is due to air. That is due to air. Just like we can see so many atoms are moving in the hole from the wall, but that is due to air. So this is also moving. The whole thing is moving by air.

Room Conversation with Alcohol and Drug Hospital People -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Who is there independently existing without having a father? What is that science?

Guest (2): It's not necessarily in the science itself...

Prabhupāda: No, no, this is a sign, that if there is a man, he must have a father. This is science. So what is your opinion about this science?

Guest (1): I see it as a straight, deductive logic. If there is a...

Prabhupāda: ...son, there must be father. That is science.

Guest (1): Don't you think this kind of reasoning is a deductive logic rather than inductive?

Prabhupāda: No, what is the reasoning yours, that you deny father?

Guest (3): The father must have a father too, mustn't he?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Similarly, there must be supreme father.

Room Conversation with Alcohol and Drug Hospital People -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Guest (1): It becomes a belief rather than a logic now, then, for when we think about the God. You were saying everybody has father, so why God, in exception, He hasn't got a father?

Prabhupāda: Therefore He is God, that He can exist without father. But you cannot exist without father. That is the difference between you and God.

Guest (2): Is God in the form of male or female or anything?

Prabhupāda: He is male. Otherwise how He can beget? Female cannot beget without man's contact. The prakṛti, the nature, is female, and God is male.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That is a theory, that is a theory, that is not fact.

Jesuit: No, it's a false theory because it goes against all logic and philosophy.

Prabhupāda: But no, theory in this form that God is everywhere, by His potency but everything is not God. This is our philosophy. God is everywhere. Just like the sunshine. Sunshine is spread everywhere but that does not mean that everything is sun.

Jesuit: That's true.

Prabhupāda: It is like that. God is all-pervading by His potency. This book, this is also energy of God. Find out this verse, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca (BG 7.4).

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That is called payi-nukuta-nyāya.(?) And when I find full successful, just imagine what is that. This is partial success.

Dr. Copeland: (laughing) That's called "touche."

Prabhupāda: This is the logic, that the partial success is this, and when it will be full successful, you cannot imagine that, what is.

Dr. Copeland: (Tape garbled) Ācchā. I don't want to ...

Prabhupāda: Give him some prasāda.

Madhudviṣa: One of the... Just from understanding, speaking to Amogha, is one of the doctor's dilemmas is that he is reading your Bhagavad-gītā, but his colleagues do not appreciate your Bhagavad-gītā so much. He, sometimes he is confronted with the people who are tending more towards the impersonal school of thought, I think, and they have criticisms of your Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. So he...

Dr. Copeland: That's why I was asking. To see how you would reply to that.

Prabhupāda: First of all, you think that Kṛṣṇa is speaking as person. What right you have got to say that He is imperson?

Morning Walk -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Hypothesis. Hypothesis. Just like yesterday I was explaining that as soon as there is a machine, there is an operator. This is hypothesis. You cannot expect machine going on without operator. Similarly, this material nature is a machine and the operator is God. This is hypothesis. Even though you do not see God we can make this suggestion. That is human reasoning, logic. If any ordinary typewriter machine... This is a machine, but that requires operator. He is pushing this button; then it is working. It is not automatically working, any machine. So how this big machine is operating without any operator? What is this nonsense? They say, "There is no God. Nature, nature." What is the nature? Nature is a machine. Just like this body. This body is machine, and the operator is the soul, and the guide is the Supersoul. As soon as the soul goes away, then the machine does not work. This is common sense. But they have no common sense; therefore they are rascals, so-called scientists and others.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: They are not on the spiritual platform, so all their studies are useless. They are studying with a pre-concept idea.

Siddha-svarūpa: Right. So that when you don't fit into their preconceived idea...

Prabhupāda: It is called, in logic it is called prititio principia(?). So it is useless.

Paramahaṁsa: In our movement, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we have that group of scientists who are preparing that book, The Origin of Life, but will they actually be able to prove anything through that book?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Paramahaṁsa: Will they actually be able to prove anything by scientific presentation or...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is science. If you can prove it by experiment. Otherwise, it is not science, theory.

Paramahaṁsa: But how can they prove the existence of the soul through experiment?

Prabhupāda: No, first of all let them prove by chemical composition they can produce life. Then we shall talk of soul. First of all let them, in the laboratory, let the chemicals be mixed up and produce a small ant. Then we shall understand.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: He believed in God.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. And he had made a replica. He had made a small replica of the universe with all the planets floating and so on. He had made a small replica, and it was sitting in his house. And his assistant came one day, his atheist assistant, he came and he says, "Oh, who has made this wonderful replica of the universe?" And Sir Isaac Newton, who was sitting there reading, he says, "Oh, no one." And the man said, "What do you mean no one?" He says... He didn't look up. He just says, "No one made it." And he kept reading and the guy, the assistant, the atheist, he became very perturbed. He kept saying, "What do you mean, you fool? Obviously somebody made it. He must have great intelligence, and I'd like to meet the fellow who created this." And Sir Isaac Newton put down his book and says, "My friend, this is but a small replica of the universe, and you're the one who is always declaring that no one has created the universe. And now you're declaring to me that somebody must have created that. I'm saying it just happened, but you don't believe me. So how can I accept your logic when you say that all of this just happened?" (break)

Prabhupāda: ...temple is very nice. (break) ...is also very nice.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...lunch time.

Morning Walk -- June 29, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: Well, at least he will not take, and the economy will go on. There will be a class of men like him. They will never take. So there is no problem. Your economy will go on. (laughter) (break) ...the prisoners become free, how the prison house will go on? Is that very nice question? What is the use of prison house? For the criminals? (break) ...thinking in that way, that "We are giving up meat, and the slaughterhouse proprietors, they are sorry. Then how our business will go on?" As if that is a very nice business. The sooner you close that business, it is good for you. But he is thinking "How my business will go on? If all these people give up meat-eating, then how this slaughterhouse will go on?" That is the logic. And our logic is the sooner you close this slaughterhouse, the better for you. This is our logic. (to devotee:) Which way? (break) ...liquor shop, the breweries, they are worried, "How business will go on. They are giving up." Cigarette factory. They will be sorry.

Morning Walk -- July 2, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: Bhayaṁ dvitīyābhiniveśataḥ syāt. Everyone, animal up to the king of heaven—always fearful. Ahara-nidra-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca. So fearfulness is one of the qualification of conditioned soul. Yesterday you were putting forward the logic, "Machine." Machine, we also accept. In Bhagavad-gītā it is mentioned, this body is machine, yantra. Yantra means machine. So at the same time, you said, "Growing." Do you grow machine Ford car?

Ambarīṣa: Do they grow? No, they... (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Then how the analogy is perfect? Machine it is. That is accepted. Kṛṣṇa says. That is undoubtedly, it is machine. It is nothing but machine. So machine, at the same time, he says, "It grows." How it can be comparable?

Brahmānanda: The body is compared to a machine.

Prabhupāda: Not... It is machine, not compared. It is machine. Actually it is machine.

Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: No, it is not the question of domination; it is the question of logic. If you do not agree to logic, then no argument can make progress.

Uttamaśloka: Śrīla Prabhupāda, if one does not agree to logic, does that mean that they are under the influence of tamo-guṇa?

Prabhupāda: That means he is animal.

Guest: Under the influence of who?

Uttamaśloka: Tamo-guṇa.

Harikeśa: It's the mode of ignorance.

Guest: Who?

Harikeśa: The mode of ignorance.

Prabhupāda: Logic is meant for learned man, and uneducated man, they want to force, "Yes, you must do it." With point of revolver, "You must do it." And educated man, they argue on logic. That is the difference. (break) ...queens of Kṛṣṇa, they are giving statement as maidservant of Kṛṣṇa. You have read that portion? When there was talk between Kuntī and queens of Kṛṣṇa, the queens presented themself as maidservant of Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: So you are less than a dog. It is written by man. That's all right. But you are less than a dog. You have no reason, no right. What is your philosophy? What is the value of your philosophy? It is speculation. We don't say, "It is written by man." Apauruṣeya. They may say whatever they..., we don't say. If somebody says, "Your father name is that," and I know my father's name. "What you are? You are not authority to say what is my father's name. I know very well." So it is their suggestion like that, "Your father's name is this." We don't say that "My father name is..." Is that very good suggestion? You don't know anything of my family. How you say that "Your father name is this?" Is it not another rascaldom? You do not know anything about my family, and you say that "Your father's name is this." What is this logic? You cannot say what is my father's name. You do not know about my family.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: ...logic also it is admitted that inductive logic is imperfect; deductive logic is perfect. (break) ...logic means śrota-panthā, paramparā, śruti, Vedic language, śruti. Śruti pramāṇa. Pramāṇa means evidence, and śruti means Veda. Pratyakṣa, anumāna, śruti. Pratyakṣa means direct, direct evidence, and anumāna, hypothesis. That is Darwin's theory, something like that. And śruti, Vedic. So out of these three kinds of evidences, śruti-pramāṇa is accepted as supreme, neither anumāna nor pratyakṣa. Pratyakṣa, you are seeing the sky, but you cannot say the length and breadth. You cannot say. You are seeing daily. If you say, "I have got this telescope," so that is an imperfect. and how you can see with your eyes directly, direct sense perception? Hypothesis, anumāna, guessing, that is also not perfect. And śruti, we take śruti from the perfect person, Kṛṣṇa. He says, aham evāsam agre: "Before the creation I was there." We take simply.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Yes. You take that...

Ravīndra-svarūpa: We could never know ourselves unless we knew all cases.

Prabhupāda: No, we do not require to know. We hear from Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Person. That is perfect

Devotee: That's our logic. You said that once.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is our logic.

Gurudāsa: But also you said once that we feel it. That is our proof.

Prabhupāda: No, feel, you may wrongly feel because you are imperfect. That is not good argument. Our argument is that the message is coming from the most authorized personality; therefore it is perfect. And we receive guru-paramparā. That is our process. Evam paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). The rājarṣis, means very, very, big, big, stalwart persons, they accept it. Just like Arjuna gives evidence that "I accept You. You are Parabrahma." So he, next line, he says, "It is not that I am saying. But big, big personalities like Vyāsadeva, he has said. Nārada has said. Asita has said. And You are personally saying, so I have no doubt." This is our process. (break) ...Upendra, Upendra has not come? (break) ...knowledge is always imperfect.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1975, Philadelphia:

Kīrtanānanda: Things equal to the same thing are equal to each other.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the duty. Paramparā system means the spiritual master shall not give anything which is not spoken by Kṛṣṇa. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... Yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa: "You become guru under My order." "But I do not know anything nicely, how can I become guru?" "No, you have no botheration. You simply take Kṛṣṇa's word and say, and you become guru."

āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa

yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa

(CC Madhya 7.128)

If the child says to another man, "Father said, 'This is this,' " then he is perfect. He has learned from the father, and the father is perfect, then whatever he says, it is perfect. Why should he take so much botheration? So our, process is that, that we become guru not like that rascal Guruji, no. We speak whatever Kṛṣṇa has spoken. That's all. Of course, we try to impress upon you with your reason, logic, but we shall speak the same thing, not anything else. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am supreme;" We say, "Kṛṣṇa is supreme." That's all. Where is the botheration? I haven't got to find out by my logic and induction whether Kṛṣṇa is supreme. That I have already done. So Kṛṣṇa is supreme. There is no doubt about it. Now, whatever Kṛṣṇa says, it is all right. That's all.

Morning Walk -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: The same logic, "Cheerfully be hanged." That's all. As soon as there is some difficult subject, they give up. And they speculate on some nonsense thing. That's all. This is their education. Education means atyantika-duḥkha-nivṛtti, the ultimate solution of all unhappiness. That is education, not that after coming to some extent, "No, you can die happily." And what is duhkha, unhappiness? That is presented by Kṛṣṇa: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi duḥkha-doṣānu... (BG 13.9). These are your unhappiness. Try to solve it. And that they are carefully avoiding. They cannot stop death, neither birth, nor old age, nor disease. And during the short period of life, birth and death, they are making big, big buildings, and next time he is becoming one rat within the buildings. (laughter) Nature. You cannot avoid the nature's law. As you cannot avoid death, similarly, nature will give you another body. Become a tree in this university. Stand up for five thousand years. You wanted to be naked. Now nobody will object. You stand here naked.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Yes, same one. But the moon planet where they went, that is a dark planet. That is not moon planet.

Kṛṣṇa-dāsa: My father is a graduate of Berkeley and he majored in astronomy and chemistry. And he's an atheist. And his logic is is that—it's very empirical—is that if there's other life, they have to have bodies similar to ours.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Paramahaṁsa: So it's impossible to have a life on the sun because we could not live there. That's the empirical way of...

Prabhupāda: You cannot live there; therefore there is no life.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Why not? Fire is also one of the elements like water and earth. So if there is life in the water, life on the earth, why not in the fire? What is this logic?

Bahulāśva: Actually, everything is burning. Even this body is also on fire.

Prabhupāda: No, the material ingredients, five elements... Out of the five elements, fire is one of them. So if in the four elements there are life, why not in the fifth? How do you say? That is their ignorance.

Devotee (3): You say even in the śāstra, Prabhupāda, that there's so many living entities in this body. It's evident.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's a fact. As soon as the body is dead, so many living entities will come out. Why? How it is possible? How these living entities are coming? What is the reason? You say the body is dead, so why from the dead body other living entities coming?

Paramahaṁsa: It becomes food for other living... It becomes food.

Prabhupāda: Food or whatever it may be, but the body, the ingredients of the body are complete to get life. You cannot say some chemical is missing. If it is missing, then how so many living entities are coming? There is nothing missing; everything is there. You cannot say, "missing." What is that "missing"? You do not know. That is soul.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Paramahaṁsa: Scientists, I mean.

Prabhupāda: No, why? Because you have received some counterfeit coin, therefore you should reject all coins?

Paramahaṁsa: That's the logic.

Prabhupāda: That is not logic; that is foolishness.

Paramahaṁsa: Right.

Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. You must be experienced, that "There are counterfeit coins. I shall be very clever, intelligent, to see before accepting any genuine coin." That should be your conclusion. Not that I have met one or two counterfeit coins, therefore I conclude there is no genuine coin.

Morning Walk -- July 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But you are not God. You are rascal. (laughter) That is Māyāvāda theory, that "Because God is everything, therefore I am God." That is Māyāvāda. Just like Vivekananda said, "Why you are finding out here and there God? Here is God, so many, on this street." That is his theory.

Jayādvaita: There was a book-yesterday someone was showing me—where Meher Baba was saying that everyone is in God and therefore everyone is God.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Everyone is within the space; therefore everyone is space? (laughter) Just see the logic. Such rascals, they are God.

Paramahaṁsa: Last week, Prabhupāda, you may have read that the Russians and the Americans sent up two rockets that met in outer space.

Prabhupāda: Hm, so what is the benefit?

Paramahaṁsa: Well, this is the point, is that... It was called the Soyez flight. In any case, they have announced... They made a joint speech where they said, "Together we can conquer outer space. That is the purpose." So now the Russians and the Americans are trying to get... to combine in their efforts to conquer.

Prabhupāda: Bora bora goye gala rasatala, vetta gore bole katha jala(?). There is a river. The horses, they can swim. So the river was so ferocious and many horses drowned. So one vetta gora, means third-class horse, he said, "How was the water? Let me try."

Morning Walk -- September 26, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: Settle this. I create something which has got so power that it is localized, at the same time sarva-vyāpaka. And I myself, I cannot be sarva-vyāpaka. What is this logic?

Indian man (3): The sun rays are not actually... When there is hindrance, it cannot be on the other side.

Prabhupāda: No, hin... There is question of hindrance. I am seeing as it is. That is another thing.

Indian man (2): Hindrance is already there, as I described before. (laughter) Swamijī, my request is that the world is divided into two main things. One, some people believe, a group, believe that world is formless. Some say world has got a form. So instead of entering to this controversy, why we should not agree that whatever you...?

Prabhupāda: No, this is not controversy.

Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: You are a scientist. How you can deny God? Then what kind of scientist you are? The Bible has done wrong. Throw it away. I have no objection. But you are scientist. How you can deny God? And that is our point. Come to this logic, that "How we can deny God?" You are speaking that from chemical combination life is formed. Do it in the laboratory. You cannot do it. Why you are propagating false propaganda? What kind of scientist? Then you are also to be kicked out. If Bible is to be kicked out you are also to be kicked out. Why you are claiming your position? You prove first of all. You combine chemical and produce a life. And you are making false propaganda, so you are to be kicked out. They say, "We shall do in future." And what is the future? Then why you are at present making false propaganda. Wait for the future. Post-dated check. "In future I shall pay." Who will accept this check? Any nonsense will accept.

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Indian man (3): But when you use reason for proving your...

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the reason, that a child is becoming boy, a boy is becoming a young man, a young man is becoming...

Indian man (3): Reason is the subject of logic, and logic is philosophy. So philosophy is the knowledge of generality, while the science is knowledge of particularity. Philosophy can be the subject of religion, but not the science can be the subject of religion. It is knowledge of particularity.

Prabhupāda: It is not religion. First of all forget religion. I am talking of science. That a boy is becoming young man and young man is becoming old man, this is science. What do you think, Principal? It is science or religion? Does it mean that only the Hindus become old men and the Christians do not?

Prof. Olivier: Yes... My problem as a simple layman is how to make God relevant to the issues of the day. But since God's relevancy can only be related to the permanent, the problem becomes even more complicated. But I have to deal with practical situations. Everybody in a university...

Prabhupāda: This is practical situation, that...

Prof. Olivier: Yes, I would agree. It is one of the neglected avenues of learning that we have not been able scientifically, I think...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is my point. That is my point.

Room Conversation with Reporter of The Star -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:
Prabhupāda: This is the first instruction. Just like in the body of a child the spirit soul is there. Therefore the child is becoming a boy, and the boy is becoming a young man. Young man is becoming old man. Then what is the next? Then the old man must have next body. This is very simple logic. Now... But I am the same. I was also a baby. I was a boy. I remember. But the body is no longer existing. I am existing. I know that I had such and such body. So therefore the conclusion is that after annihilation of this body, I will exist in another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So who knows this science? And there are 8,400,000 forms of body. What kind of or what form of body I am going to get next, where is that science? So we are teaching, by Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, all these things, not only theoretically, but with scientific knowledge, philosophy, everything. You can see our... We have got fifty books of four hundred, five hundred pages each. We are teaching only about Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Morning Walk -- November 14, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There is philosophy?

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So what is their logic? Hm?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Want to see everything with their own eyes.

Girirāja: They think the existence of the tree is dependent on their sense perception.

Prabhupāda: Gladstone or what, that poet? "Full many flowers' gloss unseen." Therefore there is no flower? "Full many flowers' gloss unseen." This is foolish philosophy. Now this plane is going. After half an hour it will not be seen. Does it mean it is finished? (laughter) There is no more?

Indian man (7): But also in the sky we can see something. I can see many things. I can see something. It is not vacant space. Only thing I don't know what it is.

Prabhupāda: Then you cannot see the stars. Can you see the stars now?

Indian man (7): No.

Prabhupāda: Then can you say there is no star? Then? That means what you cannot see, that is not final. Therefore our Vedic instruction is śāstra cakṣusāt: You should see through the śastra, not you these useless eyes. These are useless. Tad-vijñānārtham sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In order to know perfectly, one should go to the guru.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1975, Vrndavana:

Woman: Cock?

Prabhupāda: Yes. So the, when in the morning, it is let loose, then he says, "I don't care for any hahaa, cawcaw." Then in the evening, when they are pushed into the, that what is called? Nest? "Cawcawcawcaw. Whatever you like you can do, whatever you like you can do." (laughter) This is the example. You see? When he's under the arrest, "Now sir, whatever you like, you do with me. If you like you can excuse me." (laughter) And when he's out, "I don't care for anyone." Mūrgī intelligence. Rooster intelligence. This is our proposal. "I don't care for anyone. I am God." Mūrgī logic. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā mano rathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12), if one is not a devotee, his only business is to remain on the mental platform and concoct things. And at the end he thinks that "I am God." Concoction. Therefore it is said in the śāstra, harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā (SB 5.18.12). One who is not a devotee, he has no good qualification. He is simply on the, hovering on the mental platform.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Because everyone is prostitute. Vartula pravaha.(?) You know vartula pravaha? This nyāya, logic? Vartula pravaha. One brāhmaṇa was taking bath daily in the Ganges. So as a brāhmaṇa's regulative principle, they take kośa-kuśī to offer oblation to the forefathers, śraddhā. So one day he found there are so many kośa-kuśīs, so he could not understand which is his own. So next day, just to find out his own, he put one earth ball in his own kośa. Kośa you understand?

Jayapatākā: Some plate.

Prabhupāda: One plate, yes. It is placed like this. So when he came from, after bathing, he saw that so many kośas are, everything is containing that ball, vartula. Then again he was puzzled that he put a ball in his own kośa so that he can find out, but when he came back from bathing he saw that all the kośas... Then he asked all other brāhmaṇas, "How is that, that there are so many balls in everyone's kośa? I put it to recognize my own." So they said, "I thought that it is a fashion now. It is an occasion to put a ball in..." Vartula pravaha. The same difficulty. At Bombay there was some news like this, that prostitutes are not doing well in their profession? Who told me that?

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. These are only outward...

Dr. Patel: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are.... In logic there are two causes: immediate cause and remote cause. So remote cause is taken into consideration.

Dr. Patel: The important cause is the Kali-yuga.

Prabhupāda: That Vijaya Datta(?) is interested for gurukula.

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Why not construct a big building for gurukula here? The students will be trained up to come here and sporting, having nice bath and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and build up their character. And in Bombay you will get many children, because there are so many rich men. They are not so much concerned to make their children technologist. If they get good education and character, they will give. Technologists they can purchase. Birla, they are not going to be technologist. They purchase technologist. I have seen in many respectable Marwari house. They don't send their children to school. They don't send.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: He is protected. Others are not protected. So his term has not yet come. But what is the answer, that "Lord has become your obedient servant to protect. And when He does not?" Actually He does not. The.... In Europe they are very, very much afraid of war, next war. You know that? It becomes a terrible fright for them. Therefore war was not declared. They are very much frightened. They have suffered two big world wars. So why the God did not protect them? (break) ...cow dung philosophy. Cow dung philosophy you know? That one cow dung is just passed through, and the other cow dung is being burned. So this cow dung is laughing, "Oh, you are burned." (laughter) He does not know that when the.... She will be burned. She will be dried up; she will be burned. So your father's logic is like that, "I am protected," laughing at the death of others. Cow dung philosophy.

Guru-kṛpā: I wouldn't even give him cow dung. Too good for him. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...gobar hase(?). Gobar means just fresh cow dung. And she is laughing. And the dry cow dung, he is burning. Bhute pare gobar hase(?). This.... This little logic is very good.

Devotee (1): Some people think, "I will never grow old and die."

Prabhupāda: Kim āścāryam ataḥ param.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:
Prabhupāda: So the Bhagavad-gītā is like that. Vedic knowledge is like that. You receive any type of knowledge you want to get. That is called Veda. Veda means knowledge. Knowledge means of anything. That is knowledge. So everything is there. You'll find social, political.... This fighting is political. So in politics sometimes war is necessary. You cannot avoid it when there is politics. That is the whole history, and politics are never settled up without war. There is no history. When you come to the political platform, war is necessary. In logic it is called argumentum vaculum, that when a man is not accepting reasoning, then there must be stick. It is like that. When there are two parties—there is some disagreement—so one is not reasonable, then there must be stick. That is war. Just like animal. The animal cannot understand reasoning, so you have to take the stick. Then the animal will agree. If a dog entering room, you don't want him in, so you say, "Dog, don't enter." He'll not hear. And if you show a stick, it will go away. So for the dogs, for the animals, stick is required. That is war. And there is logic. You know this, argumentum vaculum. In logic there is. So when logic fails, you have to take to war. Not whimsically. You try to avoid war. And when the other party does not agree to logic, then there must be fight. So that is also necessary because all men are not abiding by logic. So everything is necessary if it used for good purpose. Just like surgical operation. The patient is crying, "Don't operate me, surgical." So it is necessary. Otherwise he'll not be cured. So war is not always bad. War is meant for good purpose. But if you use it.... Everything you can use for bad purpose. That is another thing, another side. But don't think that war is itself always bad, no.
Morning Walk -- April 24, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: There is no question of śāstra; it is śastra only. When there is no śāstra there must be śastra. Argumentum baculum. When there is no logic, give him whip, that's all. So all these, they are awaiting whipping. They are being whipped. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27).

Devotee (2): How can we make them understand they're being punished?

Prabhupāda: You can understand, provided you have got the sense. If you are nonsense, you cannot understand. You cannot understand means you are nonsense. That is the difference between sense and nonsense. That I have already given, the example: the same whip, to the animal it is not suffering, but for a man, simply by seeing it is suffering. It is the question of sense. That is the difference between man and animal. The animal cannot understand that he is suffering. Man can understand. That is difference. If you do not understand, then you are animal. Now, here it is clearly said, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). This is unhappiness. And if you think, "Oh, what is there, unhappiness in dying?" then you are animal. The animal are taken to the slaughterhouse. He is not disturbed.

Morning Walk -- May 15, 1976, Honolulu:
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) ...can be given, though, that man's logic is so tiny, pea brain, and God's logic is so great, so how can actually man discuss the logic of God?

Prabhupāda: Hm? Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The argument is given that God is infinitely great. Prabhupāda: Then don't discuss. Sleep. If you cannot understand God's logic and God's philosophy, then don't discuss. Stop discuss. Rādhāvallabha: Jewish people say that you can't chant the name of God because it is too sacred. Prabhupāda: Yes, too sacred, that's.... Actually that's a fact. And those who are too sinful, they cannot chant. (break) ...these ten kinds of offenses.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They cannot cleanse nowadays?

Hari-śauri: They made a movie called "2001," and in that they had shots of men on different planets. It looked just like the moon shots. It was very..., just the same.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, it is very difficult to convince the people that they have not gone to the moon. I mean, that's a good logic, but they'll think that's very childish for us to say "Sunday first, Monday."

Prabhupāda: Well, let them remain as child.

Candanācārya: Śrīla Prabhupāda once said that if the moon is dirt and dust, how is it that it reflects the light of the sun so much that it lights up the whole planet?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The common sense. They have lost their common sense.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Changed, or another body you have got. Change means another body. If you dress your child, you get another.(?) So it is simple truth. So you have got another body or another dress, but you are still living. This simple truth they cannot understand, and they are advanced in education.

Kathy Kerr: Does that mean then that once the immediate corporal body is dead, the one that you have...

Prabhupāda: Yes. We have to conclude.... This is, what is called, logic, that my, I have changed my body, still I am living. Therefore when I change this body, I shall live. This is the logic.

Kathy Kerr: Does your spiritual body keep the same training that you...

Prabhupāda: Same, that is another.... Just like you are in different type of dress, I am in different type of dress, that is another thing. Dress may be changed in different types, but I, the owner of the dress, is the same. Now a person, the same person, when he's dressed as a high-court judge, he's dealing differently in the high-court. And the same person, after giving up his garment of high-court judge, he talks with the wife and children in a different way, talking. The wife does not address him, "My lord." The wife calls, Mr. John. "John, why you are doing this?" She has no respect, as the respect he gets in the court. Man is the same, circumstance is different.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: As a gentleman, if you go to somebody's house, you require his permission, but India, still, a sannyāsī doesn't require any permission. He can enter in any householder's house: "Mother, give me some food." This is the introduction. Not that he has gone there for food, but easy introduction. And generally the householder will receive a sannyāsī, "Yes, Swamiji, come here, sit down." They will offer obeisances and then they begin talks. This is the meaning. Not that he is hankering after food. This is only introduction. He's not a beggar. But people take advantage of this dress because they think that "Without any work I can beg and live." That is going on in India. So many rascals, they are taking this sannyāsī dress and living at the cost of others. Therefore people have become disgusted. They have no knowledge to preach. Yes, go on.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "If he is actually advanced and so ordered by his spiritual master, he should preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness with logic and understanding. And if he is not so advanced, he should not accept the renounced order of life. But even if he has accepted the renounced order of life without sufficient knowledge, he should engage himself fully in hearing from a bona fide spiritual master to cultivate knowledge. A sannyāsī, or one in the renounced order of life, must be situated in fearlessness, sattva-saṁśuddhiḥ (purity), and jñāna-yoga (knowledge). The next item is charity. Charity is meant for the householders.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: These are, will be declining. These are the, I mean to say, human assets which makes a human being distinct from the animals. But these things will decline. There will be no mercifulness, there will be no truthfulness, the memory will be shortened, duration life shortened. Similarly religion will vanish. So that means gradually they will come to the platform of animals. And especially when there is no religion, it is simply animals. That any common man can distinguish, that... a dog does not understand what is religion. He's also a living being. He's not interested what is going on here about Bhagavad-Gītā or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. He is not interested. That is the distinction between dog and man. The animal is not interested. So if the human being becoming disinterested in religious things, then they are animals. And how there can be happiness, peace, in the animal society? They want to keep people as animal, and they are making United Nations. How it is possible? "United Animals?" Is it possible? "Society for United Animals." (laughter) So these things are going on. So they have detected it is declining, that is good. Declining means they are going to be animals. In the logic it is said, "Man is rational animal." So rationality minus..., animal. Where is human being? (aside:) you stand be... No. there is no place. That's all right.

Room Conversation After Film -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Kīrtanānanda: Our community is gaining in opulence.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dhānyena dhanavān. If you have got grain, then you are rich. And if you have got cows, then you are rich. This is the standard of Vedic richness. Dhānyena dhanavān gavayo dhanavān. They don't say, "Keep some papers and you become rich." All rascal, one thousand dollar I promise to pay, a piece of paper. Practical, we have got enough food grains. We have got enough... That is richness. What is use of paper? Even gold you have got, you have to exchange. And if you have grain, immediate food. Just boil with milk, and it is nectarean, param anna, immediately. Take some wood collected from the wood and have fire, put the milk and the grains-oḥ, you'll get so nice food, nutritious, full of vitamin, and so easily made. It is practical. So tasteful, so nutritious, and don't require. If you simply boil little milk and little grain, whole day, so much sweet rice, you take-bas. You don't require any more. And if you add little apples and fruits, oh, it is heavenly. Your whole day free from any food anxiety, and you can work. And you can work. You can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Make this ideal life here. America has got good potency. We have got so much land here. We can have hundreds of New Vrindabans or farms like that. And people will be happy. And invite all the world, "Please come and live with us. Why you are suffering congestion, overpopulation? Welcome here. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." Make that. Indian culture and American strength make the whole world happy. That logic even I have given? Andha-paṅgu?

Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: But why these rascals say it is full of dust, and how from the dust so much light is coming, illuminating the whole universe? What is their logic? They have already brought the dust. That dust does not illuminate.

Hari-śauri: Well, they say just like when the sunlight hits the earth, then the earth appears very bright from outer space. It appears very illuminating.

Prabhupāda: Who says?

Hari-śauri: This is the scientists' excuse. They showed some pictures taken from outer space that shows the earth glowing very brightly, like the moon. So they say in the same way when the...

Prabhupāda: Why the glow of the surface of the earth does not illuminate? It does not come between illumination?

Hari-śauri: Just like when the sun is here everything is bright.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, when the sun is there.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Therefore not physical. This is definition by negation. In the logic, there is a process of definition by negation. The Māyāvādīs, they define this Brahman, neti, neti, neti, neti, negation. "It is not this, it is not this." What is, that they cannot tell. They simply negate. That is a partial definition. Yes, go on.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And the third point, lacks—in matter column—lacks specific inherent complex form, and life column has a specific complex form and activity by nature. Now here we are talking about complex form. Normally the matter itself is very simple by nature, but life tends, when the living entity is in a living body, the matter itself is also very complex when it is associated with life. But matter per se is a very simple, simple structure.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How can you say, though, that the soul has a complex form?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Well, we get information that in the spiritual world the spiritual world is full of variegatedness. It is not just one variety. It is full of varieties. So we take that as proof of the complex nature of life.

Prabhupāda: We see that so long the life is there in the material body, he has got varieties of thoughts. That is the proof that life is full of varieties. As soon as the life is not there, no more varieties, only one variety, dead body, that's all, finished. And as long as the life is there, he has got so many ideas, so many arts, so many philosophies, so many... That is the proof that life is full of varieties. That is the proof. As soon as the life is off, there is no variety. So what do you want, more proof that life is full of variety.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: In the Nyāya-śāstra, it is there. Taṇḍula-vṛścika-nyāya. Taṇḍula means rice, and vṛścika means scorpion. The scorpion coming out of the heaps of rice, so therefore rice is producing scorpion. This logic is wrong.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, so but people then believed like that. So Pasteur, actually he believed strongly in God, and he wanted to disprove that theory, and, in fact, he got prize for doing this experiment from a French academy and, during that year... This flask contains sugar solution and with some yeast to ferment at the beginning. But now the experiment was to completely kill any germs inside the flask by heating, in the beginning, and then cool it down automatically and to keep for some time, about two or three days...

Prabhupāda: Sterilization.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is the... They will take our idea as mythology, and we shall take their idea as most imperfect.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, we can argue on scientific...

Prabhupāda: This is the position. Now you try to argue, but they will take everything we propose as mythology, and we will take, "Because you are rascal, whatever you say, it is all rascaldom," that's all. This is the position. "You are imperfect, rascals. So whatever you say it is all rascaldom." That is our position. And as soon as we say from śāstra, they will say it is all mythology. Then how you'll meet? This is the difference.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now we can argue that mythology is not so serious. I think we can argue on very sound logic, pointing out that their measurement of the ages are also based not on very scientific background, but there are many mistakes, and in fact there are several reports that... (end)

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No. Because they are blind. It is common sense, that you have created the 747. So somebody must have created this, a small insect. This is common sense. You cannot see Him: that is your bad fortune. But somebody has done it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, that's our logic.

Vṛṣākapi: To be able to be so fooled, that is the greatest wonder, how it's so obvious that there's a creator, but yet one can say there is no creator.

Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. That we are protesting, that "You rascal, you stop this nonsense talking." There is son and there is mother; there must be father. This is conclusion. And "I do not see father. I do not see that." But without father, how there can be son? This is intelligence.

Devotee (2): Prabhupāda, one the one hand you say the scientists are rascals, and on the other you say not to condemn them.

Prabhupāda: No, the rascal means when they say there is no God. Then they are rascals. Here is a scientist—he does not say that there is no God. Anyone who says there is no God, he's a rascal. He may be scientist, philosopher, or anyone. (break—back in car)

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No.

Hari-śauri: You use very graphic examples; they're very perfect.

Prabhupāda: No, my Guru Mahārāja used to use to place so many examples, (laughs) I do not know all of them. No, there is a book, Nyāya-śāstra, logic. You'll find all these things.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is that the Nīti-śāstra?

Prabhupāda: Nīti-śāstra is different. This is Nyāya-śāstra.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Logic. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was a student.

Prabhupāda: Yes, logician. (end)

Room Conversation With Scientists -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That's all. They are not going. Arizona is there, only accept. Why they are taking Arizona? That means they are in Arizona. Just like one man was stealing from the room, and there were some sounds, and the master of the house said "Who is there? What is that sound?" The man said, "No, I am not stealing. No, no I am not stealing." It is like that. (laughter)

Rūpānuga: Throughout this article they make comparisons with earth.

Prabhupāda: And there is no man. Just see the foolishness. The same logic, "No, no, I am not stealing." Who asked that you are stealing? He asked for the sound, but he disclosed. It is like that. Why they are bringing Arizona?

Rūpānuga: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you catch them red-handed.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, that I can do. It is like that. Who asked them to speak of Arizona? You are speaking of Arizona. "No, no, I am not stealing." (laughter) It is like that. They could have mentioned other places.

Rūpānuga: Arizona is convenient.

Prabhupāda: That means they are working in Arizona. The mind is there. Arizona-minded because they are working in Arizona, so they are disclosing mind.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Everyone knows, this is a common thing in India. You'll see, the baka is going on. He's hoping, "This fish will drop and..." (laughter) Therefore they are baka. Bokā means rascal, bokā means rascal. In India we say any fool, bokā or baka.

Bali-mardana: Baka is a duck?

Prabhupāda: Means that the duck is a fool. Bakāṇḍo nyāya. Very appropriate, this bakāṇḍo nyāya. Logic of duck and testicle.

Rāmeśvara: You say they are ghostly haunted.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Rāmeśvara: Ghostly haunted.

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone, the materialistic man means ghostly haunted. He's talking so many nonsense. The whole grade, philosophy, science and everything, all ghostly talking, that's all. There is no reality. Just like the new science you said, what is that?

Morning Walk -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: You convince the authorities of America that my logic, andha-paṅgor nyāya. Who will explain this? Andha-paṅgor nyāya, lame and blind logic.

Hari-śauri: Ah, lame and blind.

Bali-mardana: Oh, yes, I told a reporter that just a few days ago.

Prabhupāda: America is blind by money. Dhana-madāndha, when one gets too much money he becomes blind. Dhana-durmadāndha. Tasmād bhajanti kavayo dhana-durmadāndha. To get too much riches means he becomes fool and blind. He doesn't care. So this blindness of America... And we Indians, we have no money, but we have got culture. Combine together, then things will be very nicely done for the good of the whole world. Simply money is not the end; there must be culture. Take that culture, Vedic culture, and use it by American money, then the whole world will be paradise, Vaikuṇṭha. In India one paper, Sunday, they have published a nice article about us: "Kṛṣṇa Consciousness Catches On."

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: You can understand at any moment, but it requires little brain. Just like a child is growing or changing the body. A child is becoming a boy and the boy is becoming a young man. The body is changing, but the child cannot understand that his body's changing. Actually, the body is changing. So the young man's body is also changing, and the old man's body. Therefore the conclusion is that the body is changing, and the occupier of the body, it is the same. So on this logic, the occupier being the same and the bodies changing, it is to be concluded that when this body is changed, we get another body. This is called transmigration of the soul.

Mike Robinson: So when people die, it is just the physical body that dies.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is explained very elaborately in the Bhagavad-gita: na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācin na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20).

Mike Robinson: Are you there referring to references from the scriptures?

Prabhupāda: Yes, so many references. It is a series of education.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Apart from your believing as Christian. As we are talking, as a scientist, how do you deny this animal has no soul?

Mike Robinson: But ultimately you're basing all your faith factually, aren't you, on your reasoning?

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. It is quite logic, that the animal can eat, you can eat; the animal can sleep, you can sleep. The animal can have sex, you can have sex; the animal can defend, you can defend; so why do you deny this poor animal soul?

Mike Robinson: Well, perhaps if I put my point perhaps a slightly different way, if, by your reasoning, if.... This is a hypothetical situation, but if you, by your reasoning, could imagine something that seemed contrary to the scriptures that you were reading earlier...

Prabhupāda: Again scripture, why do you bring scripture?

Mike Robinson: Well, I'm referring to your scripture, not...

Prabhupāda: Not my scripture, it is common sense, talking.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Mike Robinson: Yes, but everything that you, because in...

Prabhupāda: No, forget that everything, come to the common platform of understanding. The animal is eating, you are eating, the animal sleeping, you are sleeping. The animal is defending, you are defending. The animal is having sex, you have sex. The animal have children, you have got children. You have got a living place, they have got a living place. So why do you say.... If your body's cut, there is blood. If the animal body's cut, there is blood. So all the similarities are there. So why you deny one similarity? Analogy. Analogy means points of similarity. So this is logic. You have read logic? There is a chapter, analogy. Analogy means points of similarity. If the points of similarity are so many things, why one similarity should be avoided? That is not logic. That is not science.

Mike Robinson: But if you take that logic and use it the other way...

Prabhupāda: Otherwise, there is no other way.

Mike Robinson: No, if you say...

Prabhupāda: If you are not on the basis of logic, then you are not rational.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Don't take it as a sectarian religious system. It is very scientific understanding for spiritual life.

Harikeśa: But, ah, "Beware of the undefeatable reasoning and logic of the Hare Kṛṣṇas, who will steal away your children." (laughs) Because we argue so nicely because Śrīla Prabhupāda has trained us up very perfectly, because he also is the perfect teacher of this. Therefore the students can learn that way. So when we argue people become afraid, because it makes so much sense.

Prabhupāda: They accuse me, "kidnapper of children." But what is my kidnapping method? The young men, they understand philosophy. What I can do, kidnap them? I have no money, I have no strength.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Analogy, the more the points of similarities are there, it is perfect. That is the logical conclusion. Everything is there similar, why you should deny the other? How rascaldom it is. Common sense.

Hari-śauri: He was a little bit confused because first of all you quoted śāstra, said everything was from śāstra. Then again you said "Forget the śāstra; this is logic." (laughter) He couldn't figure out how they both came into play. And then at the end you said that religion is logic.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is religion. If you have to accept the supreme authority, then as soon as you violate you are punishable. Very common sense.

Hari-śauri: It's because they're so conditioned by this man-made religion. They think that the scriptures they read is something that's made up.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they change.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Allah. So if Allah cannot hear, then what is the use of offering prayers? If we are offering prayer, so Allah must hear it. Then He will be pleased upon you. So if He has no capacity to hear, then what is the use of your prayer? This is the logic. He must have capacity to hear what I am offering, prayers, "My Lord, Your Lordship is so great You have created this universe," or "You are maintaining so many...," these things are there. So what is the purpose? That appreciating the uncommon activities of the Lord. This is prayer. What else? What do they mean by prayer? What is the meaning of that prayer?

Nandarāṇī: Their prayers are for glorification of God.

Prabhupāda: Glorification means to recite the glorified activities. So He has got activities. Prayers describing the glorified activities. Just like our prayers also. Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam (Bs. 5.29). The Lord is tending cows and He's surrounded by so many goddesses of fortune, gopīs, these things are described. Cintāmaṇi-prakara. So the Lord's activities, Lord's place, how He is surrounded by other devotees or servitors, how He is tending, these are prayers. So what is their prayer? Did you try to understand? What do they offer?

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Then let us repair. Let him go to the court. Because by repairing, we have broken the law, so let him go to the court. The same logic.

Gargamuni: Actually, Abhirāma... Also the facility for living there is only good for five or six persons. Otherwise it is not good. So they want to get a building.

Prabhupāda: So what happened to the corner house? What happened to the corner house?

Gargamuni: No, that is still there.

Prabhupāda: Then why don't you purchase it?

Gargamuni: Which corner one? The one right across?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Left corner.

Meeting with Endowments Commissioner -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So we have got big program. Any amount of money you bring to us, we shall spend it immediately. (pause) (kīrtana in background) (break) There is a logic, andha-paṅgu-nyāya. One man is blind. Another man is lame. Both are useless. When they combined together the lame man was taken by the blind man. So the lame man has got eyes, he was giving direction, "Go this way." So both their work was done. So I say that India is lame and America is blind. Let us combine together. Then we can give a great culture for the benefit of the whole human society. India has no money-lame. And they have got money but they have no knowledge. So let us combine together. This is logic. Andha-paṅgu-nyāya. So by this cooperation they have... When I was in India I published three parts of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam with great difficulty. And now since I have gone there I am publishing every month a book. So on account of their cooperation we are able to publish so many books and organize the sale all over the world. But it is true that this culture is very much welcome all over the world. That is happening. That is real execution of the mission of Kṛṣṇa. Not to keep Kṛṣṇa within the boundaries of certain areas. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā. Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). He's the father of all living entities. They should know it.

Room Conversation -- August 25, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Eternally. That is nitya-yuktā upāsate. There is no oneness. Otherwise why it is nitya-yuktā upāsate? Nityo nityānām. The nityānām, plural number, and nitya, Bhagavān. So nitya-yuktā upāsate.

Indian man: If you take the kevala-bhaktas, if you take the life of a bhakta...

Prabhupāda: If you take logic, it is stated there in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Indian man: If you take bhakta-vidyā where so many sayings like Chakubhai and Namdev and all these people. If you take it... They had, they observed bhakti-mārga from the beginning, that is, they considered Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: No, they have considered that the bhakti-mārga is a means to become one.

Indian man: Means to become one. That's exactly what I mean.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is their version. But that is not the version of Bhagavad-gītā.

Room Conversation -- September 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Sound chamber may be called. So with that dry squash he made the sound chamber. The bamboo he fixed up and the wire upon it and then it became a "Tin, tin, tin, tin..." (laughs) Our organization is like that. I was loitering in the street. Somebody was over there, somebody was there. Not combined together, International Society String Band. Yes. Separately we are all useless. Eh?

Hari-śauri: No, we were useless. You were never useless.

Prabhupāda: No, your assistance was required. How you can be useless? We're all useless. But combined together, now we have become a stringed instrument. This is very good example. Separately... Just like the same logic, andha-khañja. Separately, andha is useless, and khañja is useless. Blind and lame. They cannot do anything. But combined together, they become useful. Then?

Hari-śauri: Would you like to reply? Or it's just recorded.

Prabhupāda: I shall reply. You find them if they are coming. (end)

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: Then how are we going to fare in this court case? 'Cause in these court cases it's a question of presenting one side against the...

Prabhupāda: No, philosophy is there. Court case means there is philosophy, there is logic. So for that we have got so many books. We can... But general mass of people, chanting. When there is court case we are prepared to defend. We have got... We are not fools. We can talk that what is the aim of life. They cannot say anything. The transmigration of the soul, the aim of life which we are discussing in our book, that's fact. How he can deny the transmigration of the soul from one body to another? And if that is accepted, the whole problem is solved. He does not know what kind of life he is going to get. Therefore they do not accept this philosophy. If once accepted, then next question—"What kind of life we are going to get, either to become a tree or a dog or human being?" What arrangement you have done that you will get next life human being? Then the pious and impious activities comes one after another. The basic principle they are denying. "

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So what is the symptom?

Hari-śauri: Well, they... 'Cause he, man, has reason and logic.

Prabhupāda: That means reason and logic is soul. That is their idea. That is not soul. Intelligence, when I say, "You have got intelligence," it does not mean you are intelligence. "You have got intelligence," we say like that. We never say, "You are intelligence." So intelligence is not soul. The rascals, they do not know. Mistake. Nobody says, "You are intelligence." They say, "You are intelligent."

Hari-śauri: Intelligence is something you possess.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So? (break)

Hari-śauri: "Brainwashing: clearing the mind of established ideas by persistent suggestion and indoctrination."

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) That is... We are doing that. They are under the impression, "Work hard, earn money, and enjoy life." We say, "No. Don't work hard for sense gratification but work hard for self-realization." Indoctrine.

Evening Darsana -- December 3, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: What is their logic to deny God?

Vāsughoṣa: They don't have any logic. And ultimately, if we present our conclusions of Bhagavad-gītā to them, they are silent. They can't say anything but they still refuse. They don't accept it, but they can't deny it.

Prabhupāda: That is dog's obstinacy. The dog, however you ask the dog to stop barking, it will go on barking. Dog's obstinacy. Hm. What is that? I have taken.

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Language can be managed if there is good preacher.

Indian man: But in these areas they don't require such intelligent preachers. Intelligence is required in cities where people are full of logic and want to argue right or wrong. And where they're determined to prove that "You are wrong, I am right," there you require...

Prabhupāda: That will not help. That is my propaganda. If they are induced to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa...

Indian man: That's all. But for that very big preaching is not required. Sincerity is required.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian man: It is the personal sincere influence which one...

Prabhupāda: America, I simply began this chanting and few minutes speaking.

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And who becomes fanatic? All rascals, dull. They become fanatic. Otherwise, why one should be fanatic? If one has got brain, one has got logic, how he should be fanatic? Fanatics means dullheaded rascal, that's all. The Muslims they become fanatic, we say, generally they are, because they're dullheaded. Always unclean and eating meat and low behavior. What is that? Pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca janā na vidur āsurāḥ, na śaucaṁ nāpi cācāraḥ (BG 16.7). This is dull head. There is no cleanliness, no behavior. (Hindi) That is especially mentioned. That ayaṁ deha. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This kind of life is meant for the hogs, not for the human beings. (Hindi) Sex. No discrimination. (Hindi) Sex is a bodily, what is the...

Guest (1): Necessity of life.

Dr. Patel: Biological necessity.

Prabhupāda: Necessity. What is the difference? Why not with sister, why not with daughter or even why not with mother? What is the wrong there? They say like that?

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, she can... Paripraśna. From scientific point of view, from logic, that is accepted. But if he (she) thinks blindly something, then it is not possible.

tad viddhi praṇipātena
paripraśnena sevayā
upadekṣyanti tad jñānam
jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ
(BG 4.34)

Just like Arjuna learned Bhagavad-gītā from Kṛṣṇa. He submitted, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). So in that attitude... But pariprasna, counter-inquiry is allowed. Just like good logician, good scientist, one can... That answer is there. But if one inquires as a blind person, keeping her faith or his faith in something differently, then it is as useless. It must be flexible to the level of logic and science. Then it is very easy. That is like I explained. Kṛṣṇa said, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So where is the difficulty? I am changing my body. So why I shall not get another body after my death? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). And wherefrom this knowledge is coming? From Kṛṣṇa, the supreme authority.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: If we condemn everything they do, then they say, "All right, if you think we're nonsense, then don't use our printing press for your books."

Prabhupāda: No. You are nonsense, that is accepted, but do not think that because you have manufactured printing press, you have become God. That is our proposal. We give you credit. And we can also say that without your printing press, people were not dying. Formerly people were copying. Everyone's business was going on. There was no need of mass studying. Only the brāhmaṇas, they used to copy and they used to vibrate the knowledge. And those who were interested, they were hearing and getting the knowledge. So what was the harm? It is little facility that... The same logic: The dog is running, four legs, you are running by four wheels. That does not mean that the dog will die, you'll not die. You'll die also, and dog will die. So this four-wheel car will not help you ultimately. Ultimately you have to die.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No. Our religion is not faith. It is science. That is the fault. Fanaticism of Christianism, Muhammadanism, has created this godlessness. But Vedic knowledge is not that. It is really knowledge.

Satsvarūpa: And in the beginning, when science began, modern science, the scientists would say something against the Bible that was different than the Bible. Then they would torture him. The church would torture him, this Galileo, big scien... So they point these things out, that the church is not tolerant.

Prabhupāda: That is not our point. We want to understand God through philosophy. "Through philosophy" means logic. Blind faith is not our business. (break) "...such date I have posted. You have got the literature. If you permit me, then I can show some of the books." Then our local representatives advise, "You go and see this gentleman." In this way contact him and leave some book with him, that "You first of all see. Then decide." Very honest business.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Hari-śauri: But if the top planets are still functioning...

Prabhupāda: No, this is the position of Brahmā also. Brahmā does not mean that he is liberated. Either Brahmā or ant, all of them are under material laws. The law is that at night I forget everything. When I wake up in the morning I remember. So that is the position of Brahmā. Suptotthita-nyāya. This is called "waking-up logic." Suptotthita-nyāya. Supta and utthita. Supta means sleeping, and utthita means to get up from sleep. So who is going to consider all this? They say it is mythology. They cannot properly answer, but they dismiss your proposal.

Satsvarūpa: They say these are the explanations that ancient man gave before science came. Now science...

Prabhupāda: What, rascal, you are giving, explanation? Do you know what are the stars?

Satsvarūpa: As if science explained these things.

Prabhupāda: That... What is your science nonsense? You cannot explain actually what is the position. You are simply speculating—"There is no life," "Somewhere there may be life. Let us take photograph. Let us go." What is your knowledge? We have got some knowledge from the śāstra that they're all full of living entities. And what knowledge you have got? We have got some śāstric evidence, Veda-śāstra. Is full of life, but you have no evidence. You simply speculate. So what is the value of your knowledge? Admitting that you are defective, I am defective, but I have got some authority. You have nothing. You are in the darkness.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:
Prabhupāda: My business is that how to leave this material conditional life and become free. Now, with this so-called advancement of science I am becoming more and more attached. So I'll never get freedom. This is the result. Because I am trying in different way how to get, freedom. "Yes, wait millions of years. We shall do it. We shall do this." Gādhā, ass. You'll die trillions of times within millions of years, and he is expecting good result of his scientific... By the time, he'll become a banyan tree and stand there by nature's law, and he's expecting good result after millions of years. So gādhā, ass. Durāśaya. This has been described as durāśaya. He's expecting something, hoping something, will never be fulfilled. They calculate. "Millions of years we shall get how to make life." And the, an ordinary chicken, he is doing this within seven days. And these rascals will have to wait for millions of years and wait that a life is coming from the egg, and other rascals, set of rascals, they are accepting. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's statement is jīvake karaye gādhā. He's already an ass. He becomes a more ass, big ass. Anitya saṁsāre... More than. He's destined to change everything, anitya, everything nonpermanent, but he is illusioned—"Yes, we shall make it permanent." This is moha. Which he will never be able to do, he is expecting... "We shall do it." This is also called another logic, nyāya, bakāṇḍa-nyāya. You have seen bakāṇḍa-nyāya? Baka and aṇḍa. One bull is going and his testicle hanging, and another duck, he is thinking, "It is a fish. It will drop, and I shall take it." This is practical. This is psych... You'll see a bull is going on and testicle hanging, and another duck is going after him. From this baka the word baka has come. Sometimes we say baka. This bakāṇḍa-nyāya.
Room Conversation -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Let us with logic, philosophy, talk. There is no conception of God throughout the whole world. Vague idea.

Pṛthu-putra: Yes. Because in the description of Koran, what they think about spiritual world is like heavenly planets. It's all the opposite of what they experience now. Now they are living in a desert, so they think when we are going to get liberation we'll be full of water and beautiful women giving you honey. You don't have to work. This is their... This is described in Koran.

Prabhupāda: No, that is heaven.

Pṛthu-putra: Yes, it's heaven.

Prabhupāda: But do they think that there is eternal life?

Pṛthu-putra: Yes.

Prabhupāda: They think?

Pṛthu-putra: They say that eternal life is going on there.

Prabhupāda: But that is not the fact.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: To know about Kṛṣṇa. It is not also difficult. Science of Kṛṣṇa is there, Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa speaks Himself. So to know the science of Kṛṣṇa is also not difficult. But because we are unfortunate, we go to rascal, and they interpret Bhagavad-gītā in a rascaldom way, and we are missing. So you should be very careful not to go to a rascal. Then your mission will be successful. If you want to purchase gold, you must go to a shop where actually gold is purchased, gold. If you do not know, then you'll be cheated. That is not also very difficult. That I have repeatedly said. Those who are interpreting in their own way, Bhagavad-gītā, he's a rascal; he's not guru. (loud kīrtana in background) As soon as he says an interpretation, "I think like this," you reject that. Why should we think like that? You should preach what Kṛṣṇa says. Then you are right. Why should you say something which Kṛṣṇa does not say? Then you are misguided. He does not know Kṛṣṇa. He's not kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā. So he's cheating. That is going on. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), and these rascals say, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa person." So he's a rascal. He's taking Kṛṣṇa's book and preaching against it. So what will be benefit if you go to such a rascal? Therefore there is no difference between śikṣā-guru and dīkṣā-guru because if he's actually guru, he'll not say anything which Kṛṣṇa has not spoken. Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa. So guru is that. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa: (CC Madhya 7.128) "You become a guru." And what is the function of the guru? Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa. That is there. You haven't got to manufacture any instruction. Whatever is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, you say. You try to convince him with logic, with philosophy, with your knowledge, same thing, not philosophy. That is intelligence.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Scissor logic.

Devotee: What is that?

Satsvarūpa: One man said a knife was used...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: ...and the other said, "No, it was a scissor that was used." And they began arguing back and forth, and finally one man who held that it was a knife, he threw the other man in the river...

Prabhupāda: That "You accept that it is done by scissor." So he said, "No, I won't tolerate." Then he pushed him in the water. Then he was doing like this. (laughter) Scissor logic.

Bhāgavata: Argumentum vaculam.

Prabhupāda: That was used. He was put in the water. "Either you accept or I shall push you in the water." "No, I'll not accept." (laughter) So these rascals are like that. They are failure. They cannot. Still, they'll do, (laughter) the so-called scientists.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Among the professors, see, there is a question, this logical positivism, saying that something, life, is beyond experimental knowledge. Then he said according to logical positivism, whatever we cannot see or whatever we cannot find out by experiment is not science.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is not science. That I am always speaking, that science means not to observe but to make experiment. And that is science, observation and experiment. If you cannot make experiment, it is all logic. Therefore they say, "theory, theory." The Darwin is careful. He says, "theory." He doesn't say, "science," because he knows that he is talking all nonsense. So this is "theory."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They also say that you cannot prove this ātmā by experiment.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, then it is not science. You cannot prove; then why do you say it can be made by chemical combination.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: There is no experiment.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There's no experiment, but it is convenient to assume according to this logic, but that's not a fact.

Prabhupāda: But why the modern ape is not producing any human being?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say that's a long time ago...

Prabhupāda: Long time.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Millions of years ago.

Prabhupāda: But why man is producing man? Not the ape? Just see how they lunatic they are.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. He has written. Not only that. Nowadays somebody has accused that even in his old age he was having sex with young girls. I do not know. But it is a fact, when he was coming in the meeting he would touch two young girls, granddaughter and granddaughter-in-law, and then come in the meeting. I have seen. One gentleman in our, the Mullick's Thakur Badhi, when we were there. He was attorney. So when there was some function, so all neighboring men were invited. So he was also invited. He would come with at least three, four prostitutes. And he was old man, blind. Asutosh Bhan. He became very rich man by cunning lawyer. He was a lawyer. So he would take a credit that "When I go to a friend's house to keep my invitation, I take some three, four prostitute and flatterer. Then..." And he'd be received very nicely. We have seen when, when we were boys, ten years, twelve years old. I have seen it. Formerly, in our father's time, it was aristocratic to keep one prostitute and keep one garden also. Then he'll get... So this man, dehātma-buddhi and sexually inclined, he is mahātmā. This is the standard of... Ramakrishna, he was worshiping goddess Kālī. It is condemned in the Bhagavad-gītā, kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ prapadyante 'nya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20), that "Anyone who is worshiping a demigod, he is lost of all sense." So this man, by losing his all senses, worshiping a demigod, he became God. People do not take reference from Bhagavad-gītā, that "A demigod worshiper has no sense, and he has become God?" What kind of God? Senseless God? And God's definition is aiśvaryasya samagrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ (Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47), jñāna. God means full in knowledge. And a man who has no sense, he has become God? From logic. Jñāna-vairāgyayaś caiva. God means he has got full knowledge. And this man is senseless and he has become God. Logic, how you can defy? And they're accepting: "Ramakrishna is God." How you defend it? I am giving this logic. Defend.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

That is his profit. He would have evolved himself in so many lives and then get a human life. But because he's sacrificing his life before Mother, he gets immediately an lift to become a human man. And the human, because he becomes, he has got the right to cut the throat of the man who sacrificed him. This is the mantra. So if you take this risk, do that because how to become a goat, how to become a man, that is in the hands of Mother. That is not in your hand. So Mother, if she gives lift to the goat to become a man and if she degrades you to become a goat, that is in the Mother's hand. You cannot check it. Prakṛteḥ kriyamā... Mother is just to everyone. "All right, this man is cutting your throat. You just become human being and cut his throat. I shall make him a goat." How you can say, "No"? Can you say? And Mother is all-powerful. Then you take the risk. And why Mother will make injustice? The poor goat, you shall cut the throat, and you remain human being, Mother's pet son? What is this logic? She is Mother means she is equal to every son. The goat is also her son; you are also her son. So you are taking advantage of this poor goat, and now he'll get this advantage. You, you become a goat. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). When you are being made into a goat, you cannot check it. That is in the hand of mother. Then what is your answer? Will you take that risk?

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Brain means proper intelligence. That is brain. Dhīra, sober, that is brain. Anyone who has got brain, he will understand the simple logic, that how the body is changing. There is something; therefore body's changing from childhood to boyhood. And as soon as that important thing is missing—no more change of body. It is a dead matter. So where is your brain to understand this simple truth? Hm?

Pradyumna: Because it's dulled from sense gratification, they can't under...

Prabhupāda: "So whatever the cause, but you have no brain. Cause may be so many things. But you have no brain to understand the simple truth. Where is your brain? So this movement is not brainwashing. Brain-giving. You have no brain." Therefore śāstra says, sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). Animal has no brain. They say animal has no soul, but that's not the fact. Animal has no brain.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Ādi-keśava: It is their ignorance.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But you are rascal. You are bringing something which is not the fact. First of all find out the similarity; then you can say, "It is like that." Where is the similarity? This is false logic. Analogy means the points of similarity. Then you can make analogy. The moon is beautiful, and if one's face is very beautiful, you can say, "This face is as beautiful as the moon." But if it is ugly, black, then how you can make that "This face is as beautiful as the moon"? Where is the analogy?

Ādi-keśava: No analogy.

Prabhupāda: Analogy means points of similarity.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: How we are living if our diet is not good? Ten years we are not eating sufficiently? Then how we are living? You do not know what is good food. But the result you have to know. If we are not eating sufficiently, how we are living? A cow eats so much grass, and a human being eats a small plate. So if the cow says, "You are not eating sufficient like me," is that logic?

Ādi-keśava: No, it is not logic.

Prabhupāda: So you are just like cows and asses. (laughter) You eat voraciously. Does it mean I have to eat voraciously?

Ādi-keśava: No.

Prabhupāda: In your calculation it may be that we are eating very small particle. But that is not the fact. We are eating sufficiently. That means you have no brain. Because you are eating raw meat, flesh, and you see that we are eating fruits, you say, "This is not sufficient." It is your calculation. Actually the fruits are meant for high-class, intelligent men. It is not meant for cats and dogs or elephant. Elephant may be very good eater. Does it mean he is human being? So you are just like elephant. You are calculating your other friends like you.

Room Conversation -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Arrange all this. Our philosophy is "Eat nicely, live nicely, and advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness." First problem is eating. That we shall supply, no problem. Eating and clothing we shall give. And shelter. Make this propaganda. They put this logic, "If we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, who shall earn? Who will earn for us?" The Indians, they do that. Rascals, they do that. They do not know Kṛṣṇa provides. So we give them that "You... I give you shelter, food, cloth. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa."

Bali-mardana: Full program.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bali-mardana: Everything provided. Wherever we open these farming communities, people then they respect us.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I think also. He is a very kind doctor. Whole family is attentive. Living is... That we have already discussed. Trees also live for many years. That is not wanted. To live for living forever, that is wanted. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). That should be the human endeavor, not this dog race, changing condition, from four legs to four wheels. This logic was never taught, from four legs to four wheels. They are astonished.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And anthills. Yes, it's a very unique presentation of the philosophy. They have never heard it so nicely adapted to the modern situation.

Prabhupāda: So they have got farther two days, so I think they will be able to do it. That, my, apartment in Juhu.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, there is no question. Actually, they were ready tomorrow.

Prabhupāda: Still to...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Finished completely. We'll be going there tomorrow morning to see how much they've done today.

Prabhupāda: Some first-class ḍāb should always be in stock in the refrigerator.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But this miśri water, ḍāb water, that is natural. So you keep in stock ḍāb water, miśri water always. Our, this scientific program is giving me extra strength to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It seems like you are giving more stress to science in recent years than previously.

Prabhupāda: That is required for convincing the modernized man. To ordinary man, the logic, "There is no God, I cannot see," that we have defied.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah. That you defied years ago, from the beginning.

Prabhupāda: There is child, there is mother—there must be father. There is no logic. This is logic. Because without father there cannot be the child. Three things required—mother, father and child. Child means must be father and mother. Mother is there, the child is born, where is the father? We know who is father, what is His name, what is His activities. That is our advancement. And "We do not know," that means you are not a respectable, wise chap. You do not know your father's name. Any respectable man in the court or anywhere, the father's name immediately... "Your name?" "Yes." "Your father's name?" Is it not? If he does not know his father's name, that means he is not a respectable. He has no respectable position. Anyone who does not know what is God, he is just like the same child who does not know his father's name. Father must be there. That you do not know. You do not know, that is your foolishness. So anyone who does not know who is his father, what is God, he is not a respectable man. It may be that you have not seen your father, but you cannot deny, that without father you were born. This is no logic. Is that logic?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Logical.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't know what the meaning of logic is.

Prabhupāda: Orphan. Orphan means, does it, he has no father? He does not know who is his father.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Orphan means doesn't know.

Prabhupāda: We are not orphans. We are taken care of by our rich father, very wise father, very rich father, able father. We are not forlorn orphans. We have got respectability. And we offer our respect to father. We depend on father. We are safe. Everyone can become safe. The opportunity is offered. If you don't take, that is your misfortune. We are offering, "Every one of you can become safe, safely protected by the father, Kṛṣṇa." Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣa... (BG 18.66). Why don't you take advantage? That is your misfortune. If you want to remain unfortunate, don't (indistinct). These rascals, they want to remain. We have got knowledge for understanding whole philosophy. So try to convince this philosophy in Australia. And Kṛṣṇa will help you more and more. The more you try to convince others about this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the more you become enlightened.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So you cannot deny, "There is no God." That is not possible. The earth is the mother. They say "mother country," "mother earth." And everything is coming out from the earth. Beginning from the aquatic animals, grass, they are coming from material elements, either from water or from earth. That we can see. And they are coming from fire also, but we cannot see. But they are. It is common sense. If life can come from water, fire... Fire is also one of the elements, five elements. So from fire also... Therefore it is said, nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ. Because it is coming from fire, therefore fire cannot harm the living entity. So mother is there, children are there. Where is the father? This is the logic. And the father is coming personally, "Yes, I am father." Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). Then where is the chance for denying the existence of father? No. There is no chance, there is no logic. And the father is so rich, so powerful, so kind. And you are not taking shelter of your father. Your actual father, so great, so rich, so intelligent, so opulent. He promises, "My dear son, you surrender, I will give you all protection." He is giving protection. Still, He is assuring, and, still you will not take shelter? That is intelligent? That is envy. Everyone can take. Everyone is suffering for misuse of their intelligence, denying the authority of God. And everyone can take advantage. We are giving them knowledge. Without any exception, everyone can take. This is our line. Accept the father, the bona fide father. Take protection from Him. He is able to give you everything. Why you are suffering? What is the logic?

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Where is another fish? There was no fish when you dug this well. These rascals are great rascals, and they are going on in the name of scientists. Another, another, where is that another? Another means that is God. These rascals, they do not know that. They simply "another." Who is that another? That is God. Simple logic. The child is there, the mother is there, there must be father. This is logic. Otherwise how the living entity came into existence? Talk on this point. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. Śāstra says in the beginning, jalajā, living entities born in the water. And they are not one kind. Not that one kind of fish is coming. Nava-lakṣāṇi. Nine hundred thousand different types of life, varieties, varieties of life. So how these rascals say that all of a sudden came another? What is that another? Answer it. What is that another? "Big, big monkey, big, big belly, Ceylon jumping, melancholy." (laughter) What is that another? That "another" is God. It is simple for us. We understand. Why? Because you are Kṛṣṇa conscious. Kṛṣṇa says ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). "I am, here I am. I am the seed-giving father." Finished. We take it. So we are in full knowledge. What is the difficulty for us? There is father. You can say another or this or that, whatever way you can say. There is father. You do not know? Here, the father says, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: "Yes, I am." We believe in Kṛṣṇa, our knowledge is perfect. You rascal, you do not believe, do not know. Then you hover in the darkness forever and remain a rascal and declare yourself a scientist. Rascal, declaring as scientist.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You are God—limited. Limited God. You cannot maintain. Therefore you are limited. You can become God within your family, within your office, within your kingdom. You are not Supreme God. To a limited extent you are God. Because you have got the quality of God, so according to your capacity, within limited jurisdiction, you may be God. So dictionary is there. Vedic assertion is there. Logic is there. Science is there. Prove. Then your education will be successful. Avicyutaḥ arthaḥ kavibhir nirūpitaḥ. When you can prove this, then the meaning of your education will become... Avicyutaḥ arthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito yad-uttama-śloka-guṇānuvarṇanam (SB 1.5.22). To glorify the exalted position of God, that is... Is it clear?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). That is Kṛṣṇa. That Supreme Being is Kṛṣṇa.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The origin of life is Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). From Brahmā we have come. And Brahmā is generated from Kṛṣṇa. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi. So let them come forward and discuss. So we have to prove to the world that it is not brainwashing. It is real knowledge. Why you should keep it suppressed and leave the people in ignorance? It is not your duty to bluff and cheat. That is not science. You are cheating people and getting Nobel Prize. That we have to..., in a large scale.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. What is beyond your conception, don't try to. So that is Vedic civilization. They were satisfied with information received from the Vedas.

Bhakti-prema: The first and last thing we have to prove logically that this is...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Logically you cannot. Acintya. Logic comes when it is conceivable; but it is inconceivable. Where is your logic?

Bhakti-prema: But first to prove them right understanding we have to bring them.

Prabhupāda: It is very difficult. Acintya.

Yaśodā-nandana: If such a thing as going from one place to the other on earth, this is cintya, this is conceivable.

Prabhupāda: Argument is there when it is conceivable. It is inconceivable. Kṛṣṇa lifted Govardhana. Seven years old, six years old. How it is conceivable? But devotees, they are crying, "Oh, Giri-vara-dhārī." And the Māyāvādīs they say kalpanāyā. The Akhandananda was saying. And Śukadeva Gosvāmī is narrating something kalpanāyā and wasting his time?

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhakti-prema: If this is the background I can give a lot of material. But they want logic.

Prabhupāda: Where is the logic?

Yaśodā-nandana: I don't want any logic. The scientists will come to the planetarium and ask...

Prabhupāda: How they can? Scientist is rascal. That is proved. They are insisting that chemical can produce life. He's a rascal. They have gone to moon planet. That's a rascal. So what is the value of so-called scientist. Why should we give any importance? I'm not giving any importance. If you become scientist, that so much ghee and so much āṭā makes puri, and we can eat very nicely, all right, you are a scientist. But so much chemicals, make it life—prove that. The confectioner is also scientist. He knows very well how to do his business. A carpenter is also scientist. Here is some work nice done by the carpenter. I cannot do it. You may be a great scientist, but me? It is not possible for me to do a carpentry work. In this way it is going on. (Bengali) You have learned something, you can do it very nicely. But I cannot do it. For me it will be beating by the rod if I am given this work. I can translate, my work. So everyone is scientist, his own field of activities, to some extent. You cannot make everyone agree. That is not... Vox populi you cannot. That is not possible. What is that vox populi?

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Just see. Such a good certificate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Satsvarūpa, American-born personal secretary to Swami Bhaktivedanta, presents the official Hare Kṛṣṇa approach." They don't even identify you. They know who you are. You are so well known in these literary circles now that someone says, "Swami Bhaktivedanta." They don't have to say "Founder of ISKCON." They know already from your other books. "...presents the official Hare Kṛṣṇa approach in an articulate and highly serviceable introduction to this immense body of literature. The readings include the Īśopaniṣad, the Bhagavad-gītā and excerpts from Purāṇas, supplemented with a glossary and index. Preliminary essays detail the logic by which his group rejects both the academic experts and the rival approach of advaita-vedānta that Westerners know through the writings of Vivekananda and Radhakrishnan. This is a book long needed to balance out the monist theology that is but one aspect of Indian religious thought." In other words, this is one of the first books to present the Vaiṣṇava viewpoint, not simply the Māyāvādī viewpoint. He says, "It's well needed." That's all he's written.

Prabhupāda: Very appreciated. Very much appreciate.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You can say, but who made you representative? You can say all nonsense. That is your business. (break)... who will give something standard, they'll be established. That standard is in this varṇāśrama. Here is the standard, that leg must be there, the hand must be there, the head must be there, the belly must be... One who has got the qualities to work like hand, he must work as hand. That is natural. These rascals have no education actually. Therefore I always say, "rascals." They manufacture. They are imperfect, and they manufacture. (break) "Probably," "maybe," like that. No standard logic. So, (Bengali)

Vrindavan De: Nandagrāma, Varṣāṇā, Rādhā-kuṇḍa, Śyāma-kuṇḍa. (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: Govardhana Hill?

Vrindavan De: Govardhana. (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) So do you know anything about Bengal situation?

Vrindavan De: I think it's okay now.

Prabhupāda: What is the Communist view?

Vrindavan De: Communist view?

Prabhupāda: They don't want religion? What is this leader? Ajit Bose?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jyoti Bose.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was thinking that. "I'm not stealing." Someone's in the house.

Prabhupāda: Yes. To keep his position clear, he has approached that "I am not thief." It is like that. Just like I'm going to catch you as thief. Before my catching you come and say, "No, no I am not a thief," then you are a thief. Do you understand the logic? I am going to capture you as a thief. Now, before my capturing, you approach me that "I am not a thief." That means you are a thief.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He's saying... His silence on all the points except this one point...

Prabhupāda: And the behavior of the police.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Indicates that everything else is wrong. His silence in reporting that the police...

Prabhupāda: Not only silence. In favor of or against us. Now if the Central Government properly inquires, the whole thing will be discovered.

Page Title:Logic (Conversations)
Compiler:Mayapur
Created:10 of Oct, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=144, Let=0
No. of Quotes:144