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Loan (Conversations)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- London, August 10, 1971:

Prabhupāda: Now suppose the estimate is 250,000 pounds. So how much the bank may advance?

Mr. Arnold: I don't think the bank, in this state of, of, umm, the one at King Street, Hammersmith...

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Mr. Arnold: The one at Kings Street, Hammersmith. I don't really think the bank will advance you anything. Umm, you see you've got nothing to mortgage.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Mr. Arnold: This is the first thing. You see, when we're talking of Kingsway Hall, you know, the big one, before, well here you had a bank on the site, and they were rather anxious to keep their premises, and consequently they would have loaned us money to retain their site. Any of these four that we're dealing with at the moment, there are no other banks or building societies on the site. This is what I think is, is absolutely imperative, that within the...

Prabhupāda: The bank will not be prepared to advance in such property?

Mr. Arnold: Well, they may well do, but it would only be... One couldn't guarantee that they would be expected to. But the bank manager, where the account of this temple is kept, they may be tempted to loan a half or three quarters of it, if they think that the thing is a good... I mean, this site at Kings Street, Hammersmith, for instance, if we don't buy it, then the suggestion is that within the very foreseeable future the place will be pulled down to build a large hotel, which means to say that the site is very valuable. On this score, the bank may well be tempted to loan you some money, just on the site alone, (indistinct) the premises. They would be interested.

Prabhupāda: Then means that a church turned out a new building. So that is a big stake.

Mr. Arnold: Mr. Dwyer was very anxious that the Dawson Place should have been purchased, or some house of a similar nature, because these can be used.

Śyāmasundara: (re: Mr. Ahujya) He'll be calling up in a few minutes. He's just gone out. She said she would tell him. He has an Indian Handicrafts house.

Prabhupāda: Suppose we can arrange for the money, somehow or other, half. Half a million required?

Room Conversation -- London, August 10, 1971:

Prabhupāda: One fourth million if we can arrange. So is it possible to arrange for the other one fourth million from the bank?

Mr. Arnold: I think that if you're putting up a quarter of it, a quarter of a million, then I think there's every certainty of the bank loaning you the other quarter. I think this is quite a definite circumstance.

Dhanañjaya: See, because what they do is they loan the money on the strength of the value of the property. If the value of the property is 500,000 pounds, then they'll be quite...

Prabhupāda: So why don't you try for this property?

Śyāmasundara: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: Then I will need the help of this Mr. (indistinct). I can try to raise that one fourth million, and one fourth million if the bank advances, then we can negotiate immediately.

Śyāmasundara: It would be nice if the Indians could help.

Prabhupāda: Do some practical proposal.

Room Conversation -- London, August 10, 1971:

Śyāmasundara: Yeah. Those men might help do legwork, but they're not wealthy in themselves.

Prabhupāda: So you raise one fourth million.

Śyāmasundara: Okay. (begins laughing)

Prabhupāda: And Mr. Arnold will help for the bank one fourth.

Mr. Arnold: I don't think I can get my bank to loan it, my lord, but certainly we'll go and see the bank... (laughter by devotees)

Prabhupāda: And we'll pay gradually to the bank. Then we can immediately...

Mr. Arnold: You see, the tragedy is, my lord, they haven't got one account in this temple in my bank.

Śyāmasundara: Then why don't we go and take an account in his bank?

Dhanañjaya: Mr. Arnold's in the Midland Bank.

Prabhupāda: So why not open all the accounts there? Or ask the present bank that we are proposing this. Otherwise Midland Bank is a famous bank, it is nice bank.

Room Conversation -- London, August 10, 1971:

Mr. Arnold: Well I suggest that they, they should go to the National Westminster and tell them that you'll want this loan for...

Prabhupāda: But they agreed, National Westminster.

Śyāmasundara: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: To agree to pay on account of this Kingsway.

Mr. Arnold: Oh, no. That was Lloyd's that agreed then, because they were trying to save their premises. They knew perfectly well that if it went to someone else then the whole premises, sooner or later, would be torn down.

Prabhupāda: That was it.

Mr. Arnold: Yeah.

Śyāmasundara: So he's, he promised them perpetual lease.

Prabhupāda: At what price it was being sold?

Dhanañjaya: Two and a half million pounds.

Mr. Arnold: Two and a half, which is exactly the price that I told them to put the bid in for. I went over...

Prabhupāda: Two and a half million.

Mr. Arnold: Yes.

Room Conversation -- London, August 10, 1971:

Prabhupāda: The bank was prepared to finance it, and he missed that opportunity?

Śyāmasundara: Yeah, and he didn't even tell us.

Mr. Arnold: The bank was only going to loan two-thirds. Then the building society next door was going to help, and also the National Westminster was prepared to help, I'm quite sure. But of course, I think...

Prabhupāda: It was not tactfully done.

Śyāmasundara: No.

Prabhupāda: Not intelligent.

Śyāmasundara: He didn't tell us.

Prabhupāda: He is not very intelligent.

Śyāmasundara: Had he told us a hundred percent financing...

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Mr. Arnold: I pleaded with him to send you a letter. Of course you told him that to only put in a bid for a million and a half, and I pleaded with him to send you a letter that said no, step the bid up to two and a half million. Because quite honestly, I feel that the place was so vast, and most of it was let-places like Decca Recordings, Kodak, things like this—that most of the repayments to the banks would have been met quite easily.

Prabhupāda: I asked him also to consult some expert.

Room Conversation -- London, August 10, 1971:

Prabhupāda: No. The bank was prepared to finance. That is the point.

Mr. Arnold: You see, I sort of schooled Dāyananda and told him to go over and have words with the bank manager, promising that, you know, if they helped us to fund this building, then we would guarantee them tenure, and instead of paying interest back on the, on the loan, we, for bids, we would give them a guaranteed tenure, or peppercorn rent, but we would pay the original loan back, so that there was no charge at all, it was just...

Prabhupāda: Anyway, na tasya śocananarthi. Don't lament which is gone. (laughter)

Mr. Arnold: Yes, thank you, thank you.

Dhanañjaya: Don't cry over spilt milk.

Prabhupāda: That is Sanskrit, na tasya śocananarthi.

Śyāmasundara: Actually, for a place in the center of London like this, it's nice to have offices and a small chapel and maybe a bookstore, but we would not be able to recruit many people to come on a residential basis, being in the center of the city. But in a place a little bit further out, like in a student neighborhood, everybody comes.

Prabhupāda: What? Student neighborhood?

Śyāmasundara: Yes, they'll come.

Prabhupāda: So, why not negotiate that?

Śyāmasundara: Daily they'll come and then gradually become devotees.

Prabhupāda: No, among the young men there is hankering after this sort of an institution. Everyone asks me, "Why the younger generation is attracted to this movement?" so many reporters. So somehow or other, I reply, "The young men, they're receptive, they can understand the value, whereas the old fools cannot." (laughing)

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (aside:) You don't have any cymbals for selling?

Devotee: Not tonight.

Prabhupāda: So, you can keep some stored.

Devotee: Yes. We've been waiting for shipment. They haven't arrived.

Prabhupāda: You can give him loan, he's anxious. You can give him these small ones. You take this.

John Fahey: Thank you. (sound of karatālas) (laughter)

Prabhupāda: I'll show you how to do it. Like this. (loud playing of karatālas) One, two, three-one, two, three. (showing how to play karatālas) It is not difficult. You are musician. Just play on meter: one, two, three-one, two, three.

John Fahey: Thank you.

Prabhupāda: For everything you have to learn from a guru. (laughter) Even for how to play. (more laughing) Yes: one, two, three. (more playing of karatālas)

John Fahey: Hey, those are nice bells, I mean cymbals. Oh, boy.

Prabhupāda: So sit down together whenever you find time, one, two, three play, and Hare Kṛṣṇa chant.

John Fahey: Okay. (plays more)

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jaya Prabhupāda!

John Fahey: Thank you.

Introduction Speech By Dr. Kapoor and Conversation -- October 15, 1972, Vrndavana:

Dr. Kapoor: 500,000 dollars?

Prabhupāda: Yes. $500,000 means five crores according to Indian rate.

Dr. Kapoor: (laughing) Fabulous.

Prabhupāda: So I had no money, (laughter). But one nice boy—his name is known all over the world, George Harrison—he has promised to give me loan.

Dr. Kapoor: Kṛṣṇa has all the money.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So actually, we are spending not less than seven lakhs of rupees per month throughout the whole our institution. But by the grace of God, Kṛṣṇa, we are selling our books very nicely.

Dr. Kapoor: That's very encouraging. That's most encouraging.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are selling our books, average, at the rate of 25,000 rupees per day.

Dr. Kapoor: Ah. That is unbelievable, I must...

Prabhupāda: Yes. So they are selling magazines, books, and especially our Nectar of Devotion is selling like hotcakes. (laughter) Nectar of Devotion. So Kṛṣṇa is encouraging. There is no scarcity. And I am traveling throughout the world at least twice in a year. And each time we have to spend... Now we purchased $20,000 ticket for four persons. $20,000. $20,000 means how much in Indian exchange? $20,000 to ten times.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Bigger or smaller, it is always dangerous. Big fire or small fire, fire is fire. It will burn. That's all. In a... Cāṇakya Paṇḍita has given this example: this fire, debt and disease. Never think big or small. They are always dangerous.

Brahmānanda: Fire...?

Prabhupāda: Fire, disease and debt. How he instructed us. If you take loan from somewhere, interest compounded, one day it will become so big, unmanageable by you. Similarly fire may be very, a spark, but gradually it will so increase, oh, blazing fire. Disease also. Now there is little pain. Now, if it increases, it becomes tuberculosis. So therefore he has said: Never neglect these things: fire, or smaller or higher." They're always dangerous. (pause) There is a, in India, there is a proverb, hīrā and khīrā. Hīrā means diamond and khīrā means cucumber. It has no value, a few cents. And diamond is very valuable. But if some, somebody steals khīrā, he's also criminal, and one steals hīrā, he's also criminal. The punishment is equal. If he says: "I have stolen one khīrā. What is the value of it?" But by law, he's criminal. Never mind. (pause) (break) ...that he'll be happy in that way.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Guest (6): He has got a loan insurance company.

Guest (8): Can he insure that somebody will not die? (laughter)

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Guest (8): He said he has established a very good insurance business. So I put the question that can he insure that somebody will not die. That he says "I have got a very good business." What is that good business means... (laughter)

Guest (7): I'm out of business. If you take that to me, I'll be out of business.

Prabhupāda: No, good, God is all-good. Therefore any business dovetailed with God, that is good.

Guest (8): That is good.

Guest (7): Any business based on ethic is good.

Prabhupāda: That doesn't matter, what business. Sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya saṁsiddhiṁ labhate naraḥ (BG 18.46). That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Sva-karmaṇā, by his own business... Just like Arjuna's business was fighting. He was kṣatriya. So sva-karmaṇā, by his fighting business, he served Kṛṣṇa. He fought for Kṛṣṇa. So he became successful. So any business, it doesn't matter. There is another verse in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. The Sūta Gosvāmī said—all the meeting was being held by learned scholars and brāhmaṇas in Naimiṣāraṇya—so he said, ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhāḥ (SB 1.2.13). You are all very first-class brāhmaṇas. So this is the verdict. Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. According to the division of varṇa and āśrama. Four varṇas: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. And four āśramas: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. This is Vedic civilization, varṇāśrama. Varṇāśramācāravatāṁ puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān... (CC Madhya 8.58). When a human being comes to these institutional activities, varṇa and āśrama, at that time he is recognized as human being. Varṇāśramācāravatāṁ puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān viṣṇur ārādhyate... But that is the beginning of Viṣṇu worship. So Sūta Gosvāmī said, varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. You may be a brāhmaṇa.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with the GBC -- March 27, 1975, Mayapur:

Jayatīrtha: Right. The next point is to insure...

Atreya Ṛṣi: Let me just make sure this is understood. Any, any debts that any temple has, is going to make, has to be approved by the GBC representative.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When you say debt, do you mean a loan?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Loan.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ah.

Atreya Ṛṣi: But...

Prabhupāda: Loan is also debt.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes. But if they are buying BBT books, if... On the books it may seem debt, but in fact he should know that he's going to pay for it in the very near fu... That you do not consider need approval, do you, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Jayatīrtha: The books are sold on consignment.

Prabhupāda: No, and that is all right. That is all right.

Jayatīrtha: If they fall behind, then it becomes a debt.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's different. Thirty days pay...

Atreya Ṛṣi: In other words, as long as he meets the terms, it's not a debt. It's not a loan.

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Conversation with the GBC -- March 27, 1975, Mayapur:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's different. Thirty days pay...

Atreya Ṛṣi: In other words, as long as he meets the terms, it's not a debt. It's not a loan.

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Atreya Ṛṣi: As soon as it goes over the term, it's unapproved.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then a loan where you're paying on time, is that considered a debt?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes. That's a loan. That has to be approved. That has to be, as much as possible, avoided. In other words, everything you're doing, more or less, on cash basis.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Atreya Ṛṣi: You don't depend on tomorrow.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayatīrtha: Otherwise, sometimes a president may leave, leaving so many debts, so many loans, so many this, so many that.

Atreya Ṛṣi: This is our standard of management. Listen. If the temple president doesn't understand it, teach him.

Jayatīrtha: That's right.

Prabhupāda: That's right. So all these things you write. Otherwise you forget.

Conversation with the GBC -- March 27, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: No, they can give.(?)

Jagadīśa: That's part of the proposal. Why not discuss in relationship to the proposal.

Jayatīrtha: Right. We have the whole proposal. Everyone has a copy, I think. So we can discuss that. The main point, I'm just saying now, is to read through the agenda and see if Prabhupāda approves that we're talking about these things, and then..., because these things are so detailed, and we have some proposals in writing. We can discuss them more. Anyway, so one proposal is Gurukula finance. Another proposal is Brahmānanda's made some proposals about Africa, specifically manpower to be sent to Africa. Another proposal... another thing is to discuss the BBT, BBT loans, moving of the Press, several points about BBT, lowering of the prices, these things...

Prabhupāda: So what is the advantage of moving the Press?

Jayatīrtha: That Ramesvara should be here to say.

Prabhupāda: Call (?) Ramesvara. If you be..., all GBC agrees, then you do that.

Jayatīrtha: All right. So if we have a separate meeting, and Ramesvara presents his proposals nicely, and everyone agrees, then we can...

Prabhupāda: You consider, and then you decide.

Conversation with the GBC -- March 27, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: And the bare necessities should be paid.

Jayatīrtha: Right. Well, generally we have about seventeen, eighteen gṛhasthas employed in Los Angeles, and they get much smaller salary, and they, for the most part, they're giving everything over subsistence to the temple as donation. They take out minimum subsistence...

Prabhupāda: But Karandhara is not giving anything.

Jayatīrtha: Well, his point is... As you know, he made that unauthorized loan from BBT when he left, for five thousand dollars. And he has to pay it back at three hundred dollars per month. So after he makes...

Prabhupāda: Unauthorized loan?

Jayatīrtha: When he left last year, he took loan for five thousand dollars, and he is repaying at three hundred dollars per month. So after taxes, he gets eight hundred dollars. Three hundred dollars goes to BBT. That's five hundred. Now, with the balance, he supports his wife and children, and his wife is giving donations for Deities and so on. So he is not actually...

Prabhupāda: No, that you discuss whether he is... Otherwise I can give you a very first-class man, but he won't charge anything.

Conversation with the GBC -- March 27, 1975, Mayapur:

Madhudviṣa: But isn't the GBC supposed to be more trusted than the temple president?

Prabhupāda: Then everyone can do, who has got the...

Bhagavān: The BBT trustees did it.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Bhagavān: The BBT trustees also did it. They took unsanctioned loan from the BBT.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, what about in a case like myself. I'm a sannyāsī, and I have a traveling saṅkīrtana party. So can I handle that money?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm a sannyāsī with a travelling preaching party. So I have no... Because I am personally seeing to the money, tbere's no debt on that party. Is that all right?

Prabhupāda: That you decide amongst the GBC. (laughter) Best thing is that don't keep money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I have no money in my name.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, you don't... You spend the necessary expenditure, and balance money, you give whatever you like.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes...

Paramahaṁsa: "...when they have some trouble." He said, "You made the trouble. Now you work it out."

Prabhupāda: That's good answer. "You fourth-class man, you have created the situation. Now you save the situation."

Paramahaṁsa: They used to borrow money from the banks every year, the city government of New York. They used to borrow money from the banks.

Prabhupāda: Bank has refused?

Paramahaṁsa: Yes, they won't loan any more money because they know the tax money won't come in.

Prabhupāda: Just see the position. The bank is refusing loan to the municipal corporation, city corporation. They have no credit.

Śrutakīrti: So that means the city will increase their taxes on the public.

Prabhupāda: But if the public is moving from the city, where is the source of taxation?

Paramahaṁsa: That's the big problem. All the rich people are leaving because they're getting so much tax and so many other problems. And big business also is leaving.

Prabhupāda: Where they are leaving?

Paramahaṁsa: Just to the suburbs, outside the city.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Morning Walk -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:

Australian devotee 4: Why, then, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is a person given a human body then, if they...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that means better conscience. He can consider so many things. "Why I am dying? I do not want to die. Why there are so many miserable condition?" We are covering because there is miserable condition of this winter. I don't want to suffer from cold. Therefore I am covered. So this is struggle for existence. The human being can understand that why there is struggle? Why not I am happy naturally? This question must be there. Otherwise he is cat and dog. The dogs do not inquire all these things. Then if you have no such power to inquire and understand, then you are no better than dog. And if you are happy to remain cats and dogs, that is your business. But a real human being, he will never be happy. That is human being. Everyone is trying to improve his material condition. Therefore the motor car is going here and there, here and there. Why they are trying? Let them remain satisfied in any condition. The modern economic law is that create new necessities of life.

That is the way of western civilization. They are creating motor cars every year, and the bank is prepared to give you loan so that you may work day and night. Take loan from the bank and purchase a motor car and repay him by working so their machine will go on. This is the policy, economic policy. Is it not? Yes. Keep them working, busy. But what is the purpose of this working? Now, when death is there, everything is finished. And everything will be finished, for that working? Just see their knowledge. Everything will be finished and for this purpose I have to work so hard?

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1975, Chicago:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...hoping to bring the buses here to take a photograph with you, Śrīla Prabhupāda, this morning. (break)

Śrī Govinda: ...Mr. Candra Ahuja Tir(?). He has loaned us the Continental which we have been using to drive you in.

Prabhupāda: Oh. You are medical practitioner? (break) Cooler, cooler nowadays? (break) Then other big, big telescope, how many miles it can see?

Jayatīrtha: You can see millions of miles.

Prabhupāda: How many million? (laughter)

Jayatīrtha: You can see light years away. Many, many, many millions of miles with the big ones.

Prabhupāda: They can see four billion?

Jayatīrtha: Maybe not four billion.

Prabhupāda: Then it is imperfect. The radius, what is called, radius?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Diameter?

Prabhupāda: Diameter is four billion miles, universe.

Tripurāri: One universe.

Prabhupāda: One universe. This is the smallest. Four-headed Brahma. (break) ...all universes taken together, that is one-fourth energy. And three-fourth energy is spiritual world. Ekāṁśena sthito jagat (BG 10.42), one part. (break) ...asat koṭi-yojana, one yojana equal to eight mile. And one koti means ten million. So fifty into eight, two hundred, into..., ten into ten million..., it comes. I have calculated four billion. How many millions make a billion?

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Meeting with Bankers -- April 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian (1): Now Mahārājajī has told you the story about the Kuvera of the old days. I will tell you the story of the Kuveras of the today. That is us. In fact, it was in a paper. There was a cartoon. A bank manager, means today's Kuvera, was sitting in an office, and he received a call, such and such big Dalmiya or Birla, "We want two lakhs of rupees just now." He said, "Yes, come along. Here is our Swamiji. He'll pay you two lakhs." Then there was another call. There was some industrialist or a small-scale industrialist man. He said, "I want to start an industry. Could I get a lakh of rupees as a loan from you?" He said, "Yes, yes. Please do come along and we'll make some arrangements." Then he also. And ultimately the third picture in the cartoon, that the manager—that is today's Kuvera—he goes out of the bank. He is standing on the gate, and he says to that caukidāra, (Hindi punchline-laughter). It is today's Kuvera is not in any position to give anything. He also wants your blessings, you see, in fact.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...come Sunday easily. Charge them.... You know like in Los Angeles, we used to charge a dollar a...

Prabhupāda: The loan will be clear very soon.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. They have a.... They are very expert at financing now, these, the men who are in charge now. They're claiming that within two or three months all of the debt will be completely cleared. They have a plan, very easy.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) He is the right person.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And the restaurant is very successful. Also they have not advertised that, but every day about fifty people come for the lunch, and at least another seventy, eighty people come in the evening for dinner. For a full meal each person pays an average about $2.50.

Prabhupāda: That's cheap.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All you can eat for two dollars...

Prabhupāda: And for public it is very cheap.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very inexpensive. And if they advertise it, they won't be able to handle all the people who come. It's such a central location.

Prabhupāda: It will be automatically advertised. When people will say, "Oh, there is a nice ISKCON restaurant, and it is so cheap and so nice," people will come. Just like in our Vṛndāvana temple, we don't advertise. Of course, that's.... People are coming by thousands. I thought that so long distance from the city, nobody will come. But Balarāma is so powerful, He's bringing: "Come out here." (laughter) Otherwise, I was.... What is that? Plowing? Yamunā was threatened.

Room Conversation -- May 5, 1976, Honolulu:

Hari-sauri: They collect and distribute incense. Sometimes they don't distribute books.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Maybe they have to pay off a loan on the temple. All the devotees are well aware that Prabhupāda's books have first priority. Everyone knows it. The consciousness is very (indistinct) It's not a consciousness of giving.

Hari-sauri: Prabhupāda's point is that if you see fault with the method of implementing the spiritual master's instructions, you'll fail to follow the instructions.

Prabhupāda: No the point is not that they have not done any wrong. Don't think like that. But my point, that is, my instruction is sell books.

Bhūrijana: I understand. In other words if you think they're doing it wrong, you do it better. If you see the wrong thing... But do it. Make sure you do it, but do it without the wrong thing.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhūrijana: I feel that this is...

Prabhupāda: Besides that, if you do not take to Deity worship, then you shall remain unclean. That's a fact. (end)

Morning Walk -- May 31, 1976, Honolulu:

Devotee (3): These plates, the silverware and things that people use?

Prabhupāda: No, whatever (unclear). Silver is not half price. Silver, little less than new one. They purchase one rupee less. It was 200 rupees new, and the purchaser will take 190 (unclear) ...India they use (unclear). Bell metal, copper...

Hari-śauri: Aluminium is becoming very popular now, aren't they?

Prabhupāda: They don't use aluminium much. If they have got excess money, they invest in metal-gold, silver, copper, bell metal.... Immediate loan—you can mortgage the metal pots, the metal ornaments, you get money immediately. (break) ...in a year, that is a metal purchasing ceremony. Every family will purchase, according to his means, some metal pots once in a year. Dhantraivesi(?) (indistinct) means desire some funds. So if there's some extra money—not big, big men; middle class storeman—they invest in metal purchase. If there is a good business day, (unclear) all the utensils (unclear). You know Diwali, Diwali?

Devotee (2): Yes.

Prabhupāda: Just one day before Diwali.

Devotee (2): Yes.

Prabhupāda: Huge quantity of metals. Everyone will count (indistinct) (end)

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: Yes, that's Bharadvāja's idea, to tickets.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Otherwise, how we will raise the money? Book Fund cannot give.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The Book Fund has been giving one half...

Rāmeśvara: But now...

Prabhupāda: That can be given as loan, not for...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: As loan, the whole thing...

Rāmeśvara: Originally you told me wherever they go, the temple will pay fifty percent and the BBT will pay fifty percent.

Prabhupāda: No, that is loan.

Rāmeśvara: Oh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's got to be a loan.

Prabhupāda: BBT is, our policy is fifty percent for reprinting and fifty percent for temple. Nothing else.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Strict.

Rāmeśvara: But that fifty percent for temple is only as loan.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Except in India (laughs), then it is gift.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because we are rich Americans.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is contribution to your Guru Mahārāja.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: If they cannot pay, we are not going to hang them. But the condition is this: They must pay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe for those who will not pay, we could do simple ones, just with the, a...

Prabhupāda: We do not say that "If you cannot pay, I will hang you." No. "Pay, try to pay." (static) In our Hyderabad scheme, we have taken three, four lakhs loan from you. And he has taken, Jayapatākā has taken, you know? Nobody has paid me. Till now. But there is promise they will pay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that's good. At least the big temples, Rāmeśvara, in the beginning can certainly afford it.

Rāmeśvara: On a long-term basis.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I won't even, for New York, I won't even take a loan.

Prabhupāda: No, we can forward loan if it is absolutely necessary.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I won't need it. We have the money.

Prabhupāda: Oh, this side also road is becoming...

Rāmeśvara: All the way down from the beach to downtown Los Angeles.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fixing it.

Rāmeśvara: This is going to be one of the main streets in Los Angeles.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: If I have to pay you, if you don't accept paper, then I'll have to give you gold or silver, and international exchange is going on. Then there is no inflation, because you'll not accept paper, so what is the use of printing notes? They are printing notes without any gold reserve.

Hari-śauri: Nothing. It's just imaginary wealth.

Prabhupāda: That's it. Bank will give you loan, they are eager to give you loan, and you haven't got to pay anything in gold and silver. One check, that's all. And with that check you can purchase lots of commodities and hoard it, and price will be increased. If I have to pay gold for (indistinct), then I have limited source. The price will not increase. This is the only way. Introduce gold only, gold and silver. In the British period in our childhood there was practically no notes. Silver. If I have to take payment from you, one thousand rupees, you will give me so much silver. For counting, counting, I have to see whether it is.... There were some imitation, counterfeit. So each coin you have to see, they were saying like that, that, "For thousand rupees I have to occupy so much space."

Hari-śauri: And weighed so much.

Prabhupāda: Yes, and weight was so much. (pause) The time was not so bad. If you take some cash, thousand, two thousand rupees with you, you can safely walk on the street. Now if somebody knows that he has got thousand rupees cash with him, maybe he will be killed. The bank, they are so much afraid, they keep police in bank, police guard, always.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Jagadīśa: Oh, in England, oh.

Prabhupāda: But there is only balance two thousand five hundred.

Hari-śauri: Yes, just two or three thousand.

Prabhupāda: All the money, he said, spent. Now they are asking for loan for purchasing one house. This money was collected for temple construction.... We were awaiting opportunity. In the meantime, money spent.

Jagadīśa: Have there been any complaints from Detroit? Have there been any similar complaints from Detroit?

Prabhupāda: In Detroit I have received complaint, that.... Many.... Govardhana was popular president.

Jagadīśa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Popular. Everyone liked him.

Jagadīśa: Yes, very gentle soul.

Prabhupāda: Ah. So this is complaint I received.

Jagadīśa: They don't like Mādhavānanda?

Prabhupāda: Some of them say.

Room Conversation -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Vṛṣākapi: It's cheaper to make the payments than to try and buy.

Prabhupāda: But Rāmeśvara has not agreed to pay?

Rūpānuga: No, we do not have to get money from BBT this way. This way we do not have to take loan. It is good, because BBT does not have that much money.

Prabhupāda: No, we need, we supply money to India. Depend on Kṛṣṇa; Kṛṣṇa will supply.

Vipina: Jaya. That happened just about less than a month ago. Some gentleman who was a Seventh Day Adventist, he became interested and started to call and come by and listened to the philosophy and even listened to your tapes. And then shortly after that he gave a donation of five thousand dollars. We bought with it some chandeliers for Kṛṣṇa's temple for you to see tomorrow.

Prabhupāda: Five thousand dollars?

Vipina: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Don't misspend.

Vipina: Not all on chandeliers. Just part of it.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You have a bell system?

Rūpānuga: Yes, it rings, but you can't hear it in here. It rings in the back quarters.

Prabhupāda: The doors you have purchased?

Rūpānuga: Yes.

Morning Walk -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: The city of New York is the most mismanaged city in the United States. The city government has a big debt. They borrow money from the banks and they cannot pay it back. So they..., the banks were closing the debt, the loans, calling for the loan, and they had no money, so they were firing everyone and there was great unemployment, and finally the United States government had to give them a free gift of money to bail them out. It is the worst management of any city in America. One of the big reasons is because of welfare. They give away free money to so many people in New York who don't want to work.

Prabhupāda: Yes, welfare is actually waste of money. But social construction is so bad they have to give welfare. If they take our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we can stop this welfare money, let them pay.

Rāmeśvara: They don't know how to engage all these millions of people.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Rāmeśvara: They don't know how to engage them, so they just give them free money. Also famous for its labor unions, the most powerful in America. They force the city to pay the highest wages for the garbage men, for school teachers, the highest anywhere in the country. So that's another reason they are in debt so much. (out of car, walking)

Ādi-keśava: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there's one of our posters for our Ratha-yātrā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What they are doing here(?).

Rāmeśvara: The highest paid garbage men in America.

Prabhupāda: Still it is unclean. This is subway.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: So much drinking, they must be lazy.

Devotee (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: So much drinking excessively. Drinking means laziness.

Rāmeśvara: Also the banks, they loan the city money, but at a very high interest rate. So then the city cannot afford it.

Hari-śauri: People nowadays are so filled with intoxications they are not fit to do anything.

Rāmeśvara: They loan the city money at a very high interest rate, so in order to pay it back they have to borrow more money.

Prabhupāda: Dried up on account of being detached from the original bark. Similarly, as soon as any civilization detached from God consciousness, they'll dry up.

Devotee (1): Simply buildings and cement, that is their culture.

Bali-mardana: Except for India, no civilization has lasted very long.

Prabhupāda: No, cannot last.

Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: They have very well managed. And everyone is eating very nicely. (laughter) Similarly in New Vrindaban. What is the.... I want this, that you have sufficient grain, sufficient milk, then where is your economic question? And from milk, by intelligence you can get so many preparation-luci, puri, halava, rasagulla, sandesh, rabri, wonderful.

Bhagavān: There is one boy, one of our sankīrtana devotees, who previously was a farmer. His father has given him a farm in the north of France. So recently he has given us his whole crop of hay for the cows. The value of that was thirty thousand dollars. It's enough hay to supply twenty-five or thirty cows for two years, and on top of that he's able to get a loan from the bank of forty-five thousand dollars for twenty years at four percent.

Prabhupāda: To be repaid.

Bhagavān: Yes. But this he can use to purchase cows and build barn.

Prabhupāda: Only four percent. How their bank is giving so cheap?

Bhagavān: Because he's a farmer. They're helping...

Prabhupāda: Oh, farmers...

Jayatīrtha: Special concession for farmers to help farm.

Prabhupāda: That means government encouraging farming.

Bhagavān: Yes.

Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: That means government encouraging farming.

Bhagavān: Yes.

Jayatīrtha: Because no one wants to farm anymore these days. I heard that, especially in France.

Pṛthu-putra: Yes, especially in France.

Bhagavān: We have also paid our loan to Los Angeles. One month ago I paid seventeen thousand dollars.

Prabhupāda: So you, you can take back loan.

Bhagavān: I was holding it for him, but then he said he didn't need it right away, so I sent it to Los Angeles.

Jayatīrtha: We hadn't determined what building.

Prabhupāda: So you have.... That building you should purchase.

Jayatīrtha: Yes, now I'll get the money.

Prabhupāda: You have got twenty thousand, and he has already paid seventeen thousand, so I think you can collect fifty thousand immediately. If you want, I can give you also four, five thousand, not less.

Room Conversation -- September 11, 1976, Vrndavana:

Dhanañjaya: Yes. But it will require some capital in the beginning.

Prabhupāda: So capital required we can give. There is no scarcity of capital. But it must be consulted between three-Gopāla, Viśvambhara, and yourself. And then if capital is required, how capital you will repay. Make them assured. I shall give you. There is no difficulty. Capital you will have, provided you can make profit. Not that we give capital and never return. That will not be possible. Take any amount of capital, but we must be paid interest as bank gives loan. I can say bank will give you. If I order the bank, bank will give you. So capital there is no question. The question is how you shall utilize it. How you shall make profit. Capital, by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, you can take lakhs and lakhs. That I can arrange. The bank, if I say to the bank they will have to give you, or I shall personally give you. There is no question of capital scarcity. So only thing is how will you utilize this capital and how you will make profit. You make that program. So far capital is concerned, there is no concern. You'll get any amount of capital. And you can develop the business. Now we have got credit in the bank, any bank will give you if I say yes. There will be no scarcity of capital.

Room Conversation -- November 24, 1976, Vrndavana:

Devotee (2): It doesn't concern directly what we have as charges.

Prabhupāda: So what is that difficulty? What is your difficulty? That I must know.

Devotee (2): If some of the boys were to get along with the authorities...

Prabhupāda: Loan?

Hari-śauri: Along.

Prabhupāda: Oh, along, authori... So that I want... (break) ...discuss with authorities here. Our first authority is Akṣayānanda. So what is the difficulty you get along with? What is the difficulty? You must discuss. Otherwise how it can be resolved?

Devotee (2): Personally consulting me, I have had no difficulty so far. But there have been other...

Prabhupāda: Who had difficulty. You came, so many. What is your difficulty? Now explain what you are in charge?

Indian devotee: I am the reception.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's the guest house receptionist at the moment.

Prabhupāda: Guest house reception?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1976, Hyderabad:

rabhupāda: So make three, you three.

Mahāṁśa: Joint.

Prabhupāda: Out of three, two. Out of three, any two will do. That's all.

Mahāṁśa: And amount which will be given from Your Divine Grace will be a loan towards the trust which will be paid back later on.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Māyāpur account you take. Ask them to transfer to this account. And when you want to pay...

Mahāṁśa: Yes, then they transfer

Prabhupāda: That's all. That will be... Do that. So open account.

Haṁsadūta: Also that lakh of rupees which I gave him last year.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is his.

Haṁsadūta: The temple should pay it.

Mahāṁśa: Yes, that one lakh rupees I will pay from the four and a half lakhs. You told me to put everything into your account. So should I put the four and a half lakhs into your account or should I put one lakh in this account and then three and a half...

Prabhupāda: Anyway, give him. That's all.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So why don't you order more?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Right now I don't have much money, so I'm going slow. But when we sell, we'll get the money back, print more.

Prabhupāda: No, I can give you some loan.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We will do that. We may need a small loan because... Also the printer came to see me. I told him to bring down the Bengali Gītār Gān price, and I'll think we'll print only one lakh here because his quality is much better than a small letter press in Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: So if you regularly do businesslike, I can give you loan.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We may need a small loan, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I'm not asking till it becomes...

Prabhupāda: No. For printing books I'll give you loan.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually the BBT's turnover now is around four lakhs. A year ago we opened this BBT account with only two thousand rupees in the bank. Now it's gone to four lakhs.

Prabhupāda: Books which are sellable, you can print in quantity. That will be cheaper. These books I think will be...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We're going to sell this for one rupee, fifty paisa.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Indian: Yes. Prabhupāda, I am taking two books. (mixed Hindi and English)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, we purposely did not have a spine here. We wanted to keep the cost low. You know you cannot get everything. If you want to keep the cost low, then you have to make some small sacrifice.

Prabhupāda: (yawns) We want first quality.

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Trivikrama: And this was... That was also for the corrections. No, the price is about seventy-five cents.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Only thing I've told Jayatīrtha and Bali-mardana Prabhus to do is to open a letter of credit now because we are going to be exporting these Gītās at export price. And the bank is giving our printer a loan of ten lakhs. So he has to show the bank a letter of credit, so I hope they send it, and then this will start rolling. End of February is our first shipment. We're going to ship ten thousand Gītās.

Prabhupāda: Letter of credit you can get.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I hope they give it.

Prabhupāda: Bank of America will give.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda? (break)

Prabhupāda: (referring to Kumbhamela?) When I was in midst of the crowd, the crowd was so big that I was afraid: "If there is any rush, this child will be finished." Because if there is little rush, you cannot go back; you cannot go forward.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is very precarious condition. So we want to give them, all of them, "Come and live." But when you come here, if you get husband we have no objection. But don't canvass. That is not good. And that is making our sannyāsīs fall down. Of course, it is difficult, that young men, young women living, intermingling. But it is... Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to reform everything. Even there there is such desire it should be checked. And that can be checked if one is strictly Kṛṣṇa conscious. Otherwise not possible. So these things should be... Because the Kali-yuga, the more it advances, people will be suffering in so many ways. And the only solace is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, only solution. If one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he (she) doesn't require husband. He (she) does not require. He... She knows that "Kṛṣṇa is my protector. Why shall I artificially seek after father or...?" And what protection, for a few days either the father or the son or the husband may give? Real protection is Kṛṣṇa. This is temporary, but because we have got this material body we require some. In this way... And this kind of hypocrisy—they have taken sannyāsa and mixing with woman. This is not to be allowed. If you want woman you get yourself married, live respectfully. We have no objection. But this hypocrisy should be stopped. There have been so many fallen down. First of all there will be no sannyāsī anymore. I have got very bad experience. And at least, we are not going to create new sannyāsīs. And those who have fallen down, let them marry, live like respectable gentlemen. I have no objection. After all, young man, fallen down—that's all right. It is by nature's way. But marry that girl. That I am insisting from the very beginning, that no friendly liaison. If you want, get one nice... They are, all of them qualified. Get one wife and live like a gentleman. Similarly woman. Live with one husband fastidiously, with children. What is the wrong there? We have so many gṛhastha devotees. You have got children. Pradyumna has got child. Gopāla has... Live with husband, wife. There is no restriction for husband and wife. But what is this nonsense that you take sannyāsa and make relation with...? This should be completely stopped. And in our, this campus, actually those who are eager to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they should live, nobody else. We give free food, free apartment, cloth and everything. "Come here. Live. As far as possible we shall provide." But this is specially meant for bhagavad-bhajana. Attend ārati, early rise in the morning, attend the functions, take prasādam... In this way everything will be reorganized, not loose things. Then what is the use of...? We have got such a... And so far the tenants are concerned, if it is possible, give them money; let them go. One, two, some have gone, and others... This whole campus should be for devotees. We don't want tenant. And it should be developed for that purpose, for developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Either here or outside India or anywhere, this principle should be followed. And this hodgepodge association, society, is not the... Let it be very pure. Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tārā. That one moon is sufficient. There is no need of millions of stars. Hm? What do you think? One moon gives light. So, in this way, if we can make one person really Kṛṣṇa conscious, then our mission is successful. What is the use of millions of stars twinkling? What is called? Twinkling? You should discuss all these things, but you... These two brothers should be, P. Bannerji and M. Bannerji... The address is there. You can write as secretary, "Dear Sir, I am instructed by His Divine Grace Prabhupāda to thank you for your postcard dated such and such. And we condole for your bereavement in the absence of your father late, Principal N. Bannerji. You know that your father was intimately related with Śrīla Prabhupāda, and he assisted him with some money, loan. Your father attempted to repay it, but he could not.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Principal N. Bannerji.

Jagadīśa: "You know that your father was intimately related with Śrīla Prabhupāda, and he assisted him with..."

Prabhupāda: "And Prabhupāda assisted him."

Jagadīśa: Okay. "And Śrīla Prabhupāda assisted him with some money loan. Your father attempted to repay it, but he could not. Now, after his death, you are good sons behind him. You have observed the death ceremony very pompously. Why not repay the debts of your father so that he may live very peacefully in his next life? A line in reply will much oblige us. Yours sincerely, Secretary..."

Prabhupāda: Is that all right? Let us see how worthy sons they are. Everyone knows. They know. That Gauracandra Gosāi, Rādhā-Dāmodara, he knows. And I have got letters and everything... I... If I go to the court... And who is going to the court? I could have gone to the court, long, long ago. I never liked to go to the court. In my business life also, if somebody did not pay, I never go to the court. Bother... "To push good money after bad money." The money which is lost, and... And what about that money order?

Jagadīśa: I have instructed Girirāja to do it this morning.

Prabhupāda: Oh, again "instructed." No instruction. I want to see the receipt immediately.

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So? You had been there?

Jagadīśa: We're going... All three of us are going.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: At one o'clock.

Prabhupāda: So what other news?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? I had previously told you that the BBT was... Because it's doing very heavy printing at the moment, say, for two months we need a little loan.

Prabhupāda: You showed me you have got four lakhs.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That is including an accounts receivable. That money's invested in books.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Para-hasta tataṁ dhanam.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Like Gargamuni owes BBT one and a half lakhs.

Prabhupāda: I know that. That is called para-hasta tataṁ dhanaṁ puti-gata-vidyā. "I am very learned man." How? "Now I can speak when I see the books." That means "Personally, I have not assimilated anything. I can... And I have got money. I have to realize this." (laughter)

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So realize this money. Otherwise, what is the value of this money if you cannot realize?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Also we're doing a lot of printing in Bengali and other languages.

Prabhupāda: So anyway, they are selling books. They must pay.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Yes. So I was... If we could get a loan of one lakh for two or three months, because now we are printing the Gītā and the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, First Canto.

Prabhupāda: So that I can give, loan. I am giving...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Within two or three...

Prabhupāda: But you never return.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I returned all your loans. In Vṛndāvana loans were all... We haven't taken any loan in Vṛndāvana. The only loan which I didn't return was which was taken from Māyāpur two years ago with Jayapatāka. They're, (I'm?) supposed to pay back. The BBT...

Prabhupāda: So now you... Our big business brain is here, Rāmeśvara. If he recommends, I can do.

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: For the book expansion.

Prabhupāda: He wants one lakh loan. So if you recommend, I'll give.

Rāmeśvara: Who's going to drive the party?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, this is for book printing. Bhavabhuti's going to handle the party.

Rāmeśvara: The loan is for book printing?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, for book printing. We're printing the Bhagavad-gītā now.

Rāmeśvara: Then who's going to pay for the vehicles? You are, right?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: I think the loan is for the vehicles. Who's taking out the party? (laughter)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no. No, it's not. I'm going to...

Prabhupāda: Now, cool headed, you can study the situation. If you recommend, I'll give.

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, you convince him. If he recommends, I'll give you. He is businesslike. I know him. So if he recommends, I'll give. He's very correct to his word. Businessman is correct to his word. That is the... No speculation. Now our Hyderabad affair is not in very order.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I know.

Prabhupāda: So what to do? Rāmeśvara, you are here. You can see. They are not cooperating. And besides that, Mahāṁsa takes loan. He never returns. He has taken about five lakhs for the temple. So I have already told to the auditor and the... They are (indistinct). This is going on.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we are working...

Prabhupāda: So you keep account in such a way that whatever income it is, it is spent for books. Print some... You also do there. Whatever income you get, you spend for promotion. This principle should be followed. All businessmen are doing that. Whatever income is there, it is spent for maintenance establishment. That's all.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Like if we buy a bus also, it's going to increase our expenses.

Prabhupāda: And gṛhastha devotees who are actually engaged, you can give them some expenditure.

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: "That I did not pay." (laughs) When he takes money, he says, "No, it is not to be paid." Therefore it is no borrowing. Several times I have given you money.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I've never borrowed... Just once, Jayapatāka's loan, right when I came to India.

Prabhupāda: All right. Now if he recommends, I'll give.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And since the Vṛndāvana temple opened, we did about three, four lakhs' worth of construction, without taking one penny from you.

Prabhupāda: I am giving one lakh rupees per month.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no. That is for Gurukula. Plus we contributed about three lakhs to Gurukula's construction. Two lakhs.

Prabhupāda: Now we are paying two lakhs per month.

Room Conversation -- January 10, 1977, Bombay:

Rāmeśvara: We are selling so many Gītās in America because we lowered the price.

Prabhupāda: So you consult and do.

Rāmeśvara: Did you mention about the loans for Bhūṣaṇa? Another thing.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I had spoken to you earlier that we can expand our printing, especially in India...

Prabhupāda: So now you have received nine lakhs' worth books. So how you'll pay?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Nine lakhs' worth of books?

Prabhupāda: From America.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. As we sell these, this money can be put into construction.

Prabhupāda: So you have to inform them. He'll send less.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I'll work that arrangement out with him before he goes back.

Prabhupāda: So you should do that.

Room Conversation -- January 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So you can return that twenty thousand rupees I have given you for Jayapataka. (laughter) Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, we will invest that as further expansion, but if you want...

Prabhupāda: Then you should also take it as loan.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This all, advertisement?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Certainly. It is business.

Rāmeśvara: From one pocket to another.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. So Bali-mardana says... I just got his letter today.

Prabhupāda: I had one... When I was doing medical business I had one very nice customer. He was my patron also, one Muhammadan doctor, Sriraja Uttina.(?) He was very kind to me. He was just like a father to me. So his system was that in his pharmacy, patent medicine, drugs, medicine, surgical instruments, like that different headings. So suppose, at the sales time, sells some patent medicine. So he has got a box. So he puts the price in the patent medicine. And if he sells some surgical, he puts the price in the surgical pot. In this way, when they want to purchase again, so he would consult his pot, whether there is money. Then he'll allow to purchase. Otherwise not.

Room Conversation -- January 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Not only that, if he makes bill for the paper, then he has to pay sales tax.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Also the income tax will say, "Your sales were so high," so he doesn't want the paper account to come under that. So what I'm saying, Śrīla Prabhupāda... The demand for our books is there. And like BBT Los Angeles sells a Bhāgavatam to the temples for $3.50, and we are selling it for $1.45. And that includes our profit already. Our real cost is 90 cents, 95 cents. So we can expand our printing capacity here. As I discussed with you last week, there's one machine from England that Usa Printers wants to import. And if we give him a loan... It will be his machine. He'll give us documents, and he'll pay back interest every month. In two years he'll pay back the whole money plus interest, which will be higher than what the bank gives us.

Prabhupāda: Is that all right?

Rāmeśvara: What is the bank rate?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The bank rate's about 12%. We'll do higher than the bank rate.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: Bank rate is not less than 16%.

Rāmeśvara: He is only offering 12% a year.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, he'll give us more than the bank rate. Whatever rate the bank lends at, we'll get more than that. That's understood.

Prabhupāda: He may mean... "More than bank rate" means bank allows to their customer not more than 10%. But if you take loan from bank...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I know he will give more. That loan...

Prabhupāda: Take loan... The interest is...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, the borrowing loan. He will give more than that.

Prabhupāda: The borrowing loan is not less than 16%.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Anything done artificially.

Rāmeśvara: They control the amount of interest on loans. It's all standardized from what they call the Federal Reserve system. This was introduced during the Depression by the bankers.

Prabhupāda: Whatever they do, when you receive money in the paper it has no value. Bad money. It is bad money. It is not good money.

Rāmeśvara: Actually most purchasing in America is done on credit now. Even a step beyond paper money is credit, no money, buying on no money, loans.

Prabhupāda: That is in India also.

Rāmeśvara: We don't find these things in Vedic culture too much.

Prabhupāda: There was never paper money.

Hari-śauri: No. They used to...

Prabhupāda: That barter system. You have got rice; I have got something else. So I give you something; you give me something.

Hari-śauri: But isn't inflation possible even with coins? Even if you have gold coins, isn't inflation still possible?

Prabhupāda: No, gold is acceptable by everyone.

Rāmeśvara: The main point is the barter system.

Hari-śauri: Yes, well its value is recognized by its purchasing power.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: He was speaking to me that "Swamiji, I was thinking of presenting such Bhāgavatam, but I could not. But you have done." Therefore he said "cherished dream."

Rāmeśvara: "I thank the Lord that due to His grace this publication could see the light."

Gargamuni: He's a Prime Minister.

Prabhupāda: I first of all approached him for publishing my book. So he said that "I have no arrangement for publishing nice English book." So he recommended Dalmia to help me publish it. So my first expenditure was six thousand rupees. So he gave me four thousand. In Dalmia Trust, he was one of the members, this Poddar. So he immediately rubbered that, that "Give Swamiji for the first publication." But I did not know that it would be six thousand rupees. I thought maybe four, five thousand. So he gave me four thousand, I think. So balance, two thousand, I repaid after selling the books.

Hari-śauri: You had to get a loan? A loan for that two thousand, or...

Prabhupāda: Loan means printer. I had no other... (end)

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Satsvarūpa: Mitralanti(?) or something.

Prabhupāda: Ah. So he was taking every fortnightly 150 dollars by telephone, and Rāyarāma, he was paying. He took about five hundred, six hundred dollars and did not do anything, simply extending the date. The lawyers will plunder. The government men will plunder. The physician will plunder. Ordinary dealing, they will plunder. The shopkeepers will plunder. The... And bank will say that "You take money. You pay your bills. We'll give you loan, we'll charge interest. And when you get your salary, then you have to deposit it in the bank." And they'll adjust. And again you are penniless. Again you take loan. The social arrangement is so made that you simply depend on loan. And to earn this money you'll have to go five hundred miles away from your home, early in the morning, in the car.

Gurukṛpā: And in the train.

Prabhupāda: Train also. So how you can be happy? This is their civilization. You study. I have studied in your country, everywhere. This is civilization.

Room Conversation with GBC members -- March 2-3, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: I have asked him to come in this ceremony.

Satsvarūpa: Resolved: Devotees preaching to raise funds for Māyāpur must make a uniform presentation. A brochure should be prepared by the BBT. The preaching for Māyāpur should not be done differently by different persons in different parts of the world, and a brochure should be prepared for this preaching. Any GBC who wants a BBT loan...

Rāmeśvara: That's specifically for fund raising.

Satsvarūpa: Yes. Preaching for fund-raising for Māyāpur. Then, any GBC member who wants a BBT loan will submit it to Rāmeśvara Mahārāja, but it will be held in abeyance until the Māyāpur financing is decided in regard to the BBT commitment to Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Satsvarūpa: Resolved: Pañcadraviḍa Swami will organize how to distribute prasādam to all visiting pilgrims on Gaura-Pūrṇimā day.

Prabhupāda: How many you are arranging?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How many are you arranging for?

Pañcadraviḍa: One hundred thousand.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One lakh.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "10) The property committee should also be consulted on leases." Up until now, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we have a property committee, consisting of Rāmeśvara Mahārāja, Jayatīrtha Prabhu, Ātreya Ṛṣi and myself. And we have always been consulted on all property purchases. But we now decided that we should also be consulted on property leases. Because leases are also very... They can be very disastrous also if they are improperly entered into. Especially any long-term leases. Of course, they also have to deal through their local GBC, but then they also deal with it practically. "11) It was noted that a total of $630,000 would be available for construction purposes between now and the end of 1977. $300,000 dollars is the minimum required for emergency US loans. This leaves $330,000 dollars for India. Of the $330,000 dollars, $240,000 is required to complete the pledge of one crore to Bombay. The balance should be available for the other projects in India, contingent on the Bombay project staying within its budget. That is $90,000." So this poses a problem which you partly solved already, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Surabhi Swami informed us that the original budget of a million dollars would be not sufficient, but it would reach more like one and a half million dollars. So this means that half a million dollars has to come from somewhere. So Gurukṛpā Mahārāja agreed to send 200,000 dollars. But still there will be a balance of about... Rāmeśvara said there is 100,000 left to send. So still there is going to be a balance of about 200 to 300,000 dollars needed. So we will have to find out where that can come from for finishing this Bombay project. "12) Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja was appointed to oversee the BBT monies sent to India. He will work in collaboration with the Indian GBC." That means when they send money from overseas to be spent here, they wanted me to see that it was properly spent, along with the GBC man of the local temple. "13) It is not the BBT's business to pay for publishing children's books."

Prabhupāda: No, not...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "14) All foreign language editions of BTG will include a section of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam."

Prabhupāda: Hm, that's nice.

Room Conversation -- April 13, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Why not invite them? And immediately you should have invited him.

Girirāja: No, yes, I did.

Prabhupāda: So you can stay there. We have a good place.

Girirāja: He sent... I didn't bring them with me. He sent two of his books with a message, and he said that he wanted your blessing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When you give them to me, we can write him a letter inviting him to come, thanking him for the books. Śrīla Prabhupāda, this telegram arrived. Remember that letter from Mahāṁśa requesting 75,000 rupees for his farming? So we've replied him. The letter's going to be given to you today for signing. First of all agree to the principle of the loan, then I'll give you... So a telegram arrived. "Please expedite letter dated 9/4/77."

Prabhupāda: So do it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So still we should send him that letter. Okay. I think... I mean, there has to be a principle of loan. Otherwise... Apart from that, there wasn't any... (end)

GBC Meets with Srila Prabhupada -- May 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Girirāja: And then the signers would be, in Bombay, Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami, Gopāla Kṛṣṇa and myself, two out of the three. And then in Los Angeles, jointly, Rāmeśvara Mahārāja and Satsvarūpa Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Girirāja: Then, for the BBT, the idea would be that the principle amount should not be touched, but it can be given, you know, for loan if absolutely necessary, just as you have been doing. But the idea is that that amount should always be repaid.

Prabhupāda: On principle.

Girirāja: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Even by chance it is not paid, don't mind. Business should not suffer. That's all.

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: If you can provide, you must, of course, see that business is done. And then they should try to pay. If they are actually not able to pay, don't mind. Is that all right?

Rāmeśvara: Yes, Prabhupāda.

GBC Meets with Srila Prabhupada -- May 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Girirāja: No, no, what he's saying...

Rāmeśvara: We should consolidate the accounts. Just on paper keep it simple.

Girirāja: Yeah. And then for the BBT money the decision to give out loan should be unanimously approved by all three of us, Tamāla Kṛṣṇa, Gopāla and myself.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Girirāja: Then the accounts in your personal name... We thought that those funds could be transferred to the Māyāpur-Vṛndāvana Fund, just as you suggested, and just keep our own account, how it is spent in terms of your desire.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You can transfer at any moment.

Girirāja: And then for the fixed deposits, the interest for your family members, that we would just leave them in your name, as it's mentioned in the will, and throughout their life they will get the income.

Prabhupāda: That we shall do. I shall... How to do it... For the time being you haven't got to bother.

Girirāja: No.

Prabhupāda: So that I shall pay.

Discussions -- June 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Sold or mortgaged, never.

Girirāja: Prabhupāda doesn't want us to put in "can be sold or mortgaged..."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about mortgaged? Just like, as an example, that New York building. They'll... When they pay it off, that building...

Rāmeśvara: They can get a million-dollar loan.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They can get a loan for a million dollars.

Rāmeśvara: And buy another building.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Or so many buildings.

Girirāja: But then there's risk.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That you consider.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's risk right now. There's a risk right now.

Rāmeśvara: The only time they should ever be sold is in some emergency? Why should...?

Prabhupāda: With the consent of all the GBC.

Discussions -- June 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That you consult.

Rāmeśvara: We considered it carefully, and Jayapatākā says that if you have more books available at one time, the people will simply buy four, five, six different books. So it will increase the selling and then collection. Therefore he is requesting a loan.

Prabhupāda: Loan, that's all right. Whatever loan you have, let us see how you are paying.

Rāmeśvara: He is already paying the money back to an account that has been set up with him and Gopāla in Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: How much he has returned?

Rāmeśvara: How much have you paid back originally?

Jayapatākā: Only one payment has come through. I paid the first thing.

Rāmeśvara: No, no, no, of the seventy thousand.

Jayapatākā: No. Seventy thousand? We have no debt with BBT. We're paid up.

Rāmeśvara: How much have you paid so far?

Jayapatākā: Since April I've paid twenty-one thousand.

Rāmeśvara: He's already paid twenty-one thousand rupees of it back.

Prabhupāda: So you can take fifty thousand also. If they have returned twenty-one thousand, you can pay fifty thousand, loan more.

Discussions -- June 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Rāmeśvara: He's already paid twenty-one thousand rupees of it back.

Prabhupāda: So you can take fifty thousand also. If they have returned twenty-one thousand, you can pay fifty thousand, loan more.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We can pay fifty thousand...?

Rāmeśvara: He'll take a loan.

Prabhupāda: Give and take, give and take, give and take.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The thing is, I've given them seventy thousand...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. They have returned twenty-one thousand.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Then you can pay another fifty thousand. In this way transaction will go on.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: At the present moment BBT can't give them so much money.

Prabhupāda: So give them something. Twenty-one thousand give them, thirty thousand. Then again... If they are returning, you give them. Give and take, give and take.

Room Conversation -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is our aim.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatākā Mahārāja, Gopāla Kṛṣṇa. That was never before. Now that is going on. They have vans just like in America, and they travel, city to city, distributing the books.

Prabhupāda: That is real program. You must always be fit. So he has taken how much, loan?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatākā Mahārāja? Well, he's taking two different loans. One loan is for vans. Took fifty thousand rupees. He's now paid off ten thousand. Every month he's sending regularly five thousand. He's done that regularly now. And then he's taken another loan...

Prabhupāda: For printing books.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...for printing books.

Prabhupāda: One lakh of rupees, hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, it isn't that much, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It was about forty-five thousand rupees so far.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, he can take any amount of money, provided he returns.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what I told him. After I received the second payment, I said, "This is very good. If you continue to pay off to me, you can expect to get more loans."

Prabhupāda: So I am very eagerly waiting. If some of our men get permanent visa, then I'll do very vigorous propaganda.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Mr. Myer: Actually South is full of it. They have got a Theosophical Society, there's the Aurobindo Society, there is the J. Krishnamurti Trust. Many, many things are there. But each one of it is just a very shallow... J. Krishnamurti has never written a book himself. Always another person writes about him, his thoughts, his speeches. So only thing is that they started many, many years ago, fifty years ago. So they have bought some piece of land and started some schools, and like that they have created some systems. But basically it's very difficult. One cannot make any advancement with such people. But all, everywhere in India today tendency is people just go and ask for some personal gain. In Tirupati people go there, they say "If I get a son, I will come and pay some money." And some people say, "If my husband gets all right, I will come and do something." Some women go there, they just take off all their diamond necklaces and pour it. In one day they will sometimes collect a crore of rupees. It's unbelievable. So that is the type attitude people developed. Then that legend also says Lord Viṣṇu married, and for a marriage He has taken a big loan. So whosoever is helping Him to repay it, he gets a good from the...

Prabhupāda: Lord Viṣṇu. Who is that?

Mr. Myer: Lord Veṅkateśvara. That is one insult. They say that for a marriage He has taken so much money, and He's to pay back...

Prabhupāda: A person, man? A man has said?

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's talking about Bālajī Veṅkateśvara. He says that there's a legend that Viṣṇu took a loan for what?

Mr. Myer: For getting married. So that loan He has to repay now. So anyone who is helping Him to repay is given some... That's what they say. It is very natural for people to go and...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Viṣṇu doesn't have to take any loan. Anybody who believes that means they don't know the philosophy. How can God be wanting?

Prabhupāda: Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambrahma-sevyamānam. He's worshiped by many thousands of goddess of fortune. Why He is taking your help?

Mr. Myer: So this is how the people are made to believe the entire thing. And now they've started collecting money through banks. People are sending deposits through banks to get pūjās done. And prasādam is being sold in all the places. This is just basically. But if anyone wants to go there and...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So our temple should be ideal here.

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hari-śauri? He's bathing, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break) ...comfortably, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Śrīla Prabhupāda? In order to finish the Bombay temple, we're making a... We're sending some money to them for completion. So we have a committee called the Māyāpur-Vṛndāvana committee. Persons on the committee are Jayapatākā Swami, Girirāja, Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, Ātreya Ṛṣi, Rāmeśvara Mahārāja, Gurukṛpā Mahārāja and myself. That committee was formed by the GBC last Māyāpur festival. So they decided that they would give a loan, because the BBT was a little short of money... The BBT sends the money to Bombay. So the BBT wants to loan some money from the Māyāpur-Vṛndāvana account in Los Angeles, and they'll pay it back with the same bank interest.

Prabhupāda: Make me centered.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Make a loan from Los Angeles to the BBT, and the BBT will repay it with the regular bank interest. Is that all right? Had you given power of attorney, now that the MV trust has approved it, Girirāja and I can sign on your behalf. See, we'll never sign on our own. We only sign after we get authority from the respective committee or from Your Divine Grace.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're only mechanical signers.

Prabhupāda: Very good. Make the body centered.

Room Conversation -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: There is no question of becoming miserly. You print as many books as you like. All money will be paid if you have no money. Why? If you are selling books, you must have money also.

Jayapatākā: We have a program to print. We're printing right now. It's in the press at the present time. The Bhakti-kathā, Jñāna-kathā, Bhagavānera-kathā and then hardback Vairāgya-vidyā. And also three issues of Bhāgavata-darśana. We're trying to, within that money also, print the first three chapters of Bhagavad-gītā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We gave him a loan of forty-five thousand rupees, and then another twenty-five is coming. But that's all...

Prabhupāda: So you'll get money. Print.

Jayapatākā: One of our parties has gone to Bihar, and they sold about twelve thousand books and they ran out. They just now ran out of books, so they went to Bombay to get Hindi books, but there was no stock. So they came here to... Spent four hundred rupees going there, they found no books. Then they came here to Delhi, and they got two thousand books from Vṛndāvana here, what stock they had.

Prabhupāda: So why stock lacking? Why this mismanagement? There is no question of shortage of stock. I give you open order. Print more than necessity. If you do not print, what shall I do?

Bhakti-caru: Should we start printing Hindi books in Calcutta, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: I do not know where to be... But get it printed in huge stock.

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Plus we are starting to construct a BBT godown. Surabhī Swami is working on that because now we are printing so many books, and also we have a big shipment of books from America that we definitely need a very huge godown in Bombay. Last time you had approved giving a loan of four lakhs for the godown.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Three lakhs. One lakh for printing, three lakhs for the godown.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: (softly) No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. You said that the godown would only cost three lakhs.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Three to four is the estimate. (to Prabhupāda:) So we are going to start work on the godown in November.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: It is improving?

Guest (1): Yes, it is. (break)

Pañca-draviḍa: We have an arrangement now that Spanish BBT is sending funds every month to Hyderabad temple to finish the construction, and then, to pay back the loan that you gave, we're also sending in contributions to pay back that loan.

Prabhupāda: So, (laughs) what do I need? The money is coming from outside. Never mind.

Guest (1): There is no lack of money, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So, in the temple everything is going on?

Guest (1): Yes, it's going on.

Prabhupāda: People are coming?

Guest (1): Yes, many people are coming. It has become very...

Prabhupāda: Popular.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...supplied?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja has just given us four lakh rupees' loan. So I have given you a report, which he has. We have twenty-two books in print now in various...

Prabhupāda: "A loan payable when able."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "When able." Prabhupāda... (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I wouldn't agree to that. I'm very strict...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We are paying back the loan in time with interest.

Prabhupāda: Ātreya Ṛṣi, this kind of loan is very good.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Very good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's Gopāla's favorite loan.

Prabhupāda: You take loan—"payable when able." (laughter)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We paid back the first BBT loan—the second three lakhs—I paid it back three months ago. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: That's all. (laughs)

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And market it will be sold at cheap rate. Then it will reduce its importance.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was happening in Calcutta many...

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I also got the loan for the godown. So in November we are starting construction of the BBT godown in Bombay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That four lakhs, two lakhs was for the godown and two lakhs for book printing.

Prabhupāda: Money you'll get. There is no scarcity. Ātreya Ṛṣi will give you.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he is very rich.

Prabhupāda: Their country is very rich now.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We used to send devotees to collect from these Middle East countries.

Prabhupāda: Richest country now, Middle East. Everywhere we can make Vaikuṇṭha by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Let people understand gradually.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no. Once and for all. It's a permanent installation of a permanent line. The yearly electricity bill he'll pay. That's his business. Then he seems to want to repay this amount that we're giving from the postal receipts. So I have no objection. If he repays, then we'll simply follow the original scheme and divide it up accordingly. Or he can divide it up. I don't know why he wants to pay it back. I don't know. I've explained to him that it's a donation. But anyway, it's better he pays it back, and then we can give it to each of the persons involved. I don't think there's any need of taking any loan agreement or anything, is there? Is there any need?

Prabhupāda: I don't think so.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I mean verbal agreement is enough, isn't it, in dealing with him? I would think so. I mean I thought it was sufficient if he agrees verbally. No contract or loan agreement. He wants to pay this money back by April. I didn't tell him he had to. I told him it was a donation. He seems to want to pay it back. So let him if he wants to. Then he wanted me to arrange, so I'm sending... I gave the receipts to him as you saw. I'm sending the letter... I'm sending a man to Delhi tomorrow to get a ticket for him, airline ticket.

Prabhupāda: Where he is?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's gone to take his meals now. Then he's going to take rest, he said.

Prabhupāda: And he has got the papers?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He gave them back to me to keep in the almirah locked up. He said until he goes he wants me to keep them carefully. I said all right.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So, why you have not paid?

Vrindavan De: That is also on a check basis. On its encashment I shall send a draft to BBT. I got some outstanding checks. So it takes time, at least a month or more than a month. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're going to give his business...

Vrindavan De: But I wrote to Prabhupāda some loan that is to be repaid in April positively.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Regarding this loan, you were to make twelve percent out of it. Right? You were going to make twelve thousand rupees' profit.

Vrindavan De: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: On the investment.

Vrindavan De: One lakh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But you're not making one lakh profit.

Vrindavan De: No. Profit is twelve thousand, yes, twelve to fifteen thousand.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But now by these postal receipts, you're making 27,000, apart from your brother's amount. Yours, your mother's and your sister's will give you 27,000.

Vrindavan De: No. I want that loan for the time being. I shall pay it back.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But that loan... You have to understand something. The Society cannot loan...

Prabhupāda: All the money he can take, loan.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no, that's not what Prabhupāda's saying. On the basis of those postal receipts. Is that what you're saying, Śrīla Prabhupāda? You can put up those postal receipts, that money, to the bank, and they can issue you loan against that money.

Vrindavan De: I don't think so. I don't know, actually, because I don't have any idea about it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because, Śrīla Prabhupāda, our Society cannot loan money for a business like this. This is not our Society's business at all. You're not... Of the one lakh of rupees' worth of books, only six thousand rupees is from ISKCON's books. So how can we loan one lakh of rupees? We can't start loaning money for these kind of businesses. It's against the Society's memorandum and rules that money can be given to individuals for their personal businesses. This is a charitable society. It's bounded by the Society's charity laws. So, Prabhupāda, whatever money he has, he has got as a binamida of the Society. He may donate the money in the sense of giving a stipend to family members. That's different. But as far as giving loans for business purposes to an individual private business... I mean we would lose our charitable status, because the accounts are audited every year. So it will look very... In fact, if we do that, then they may raise objection to the stipend also. Now they can't raise objection, because it's given as a stipend to the family, former family of this ācārya. They won't say anything. But if we start taking Society money and loaning it to a private business, which is the way they'll see it, then they'll raise objection. Furthermore, then we'll have to charge interest, and if we charge interest, that gets us into a lot of trouble also. As a Society, we're not supposed to be doing business, profit-making business.

Prabhupāda: So when the certificates matures, what is the amount?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The amount, I believe, is about 43,200 rupees.

Prabhupāda: So this much can be given to him.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So when the certificates matures, what is the amount?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The amount, I believe, is about 43,200 rupees.

Prabhupāda: So this much can be given to him. You can...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That amount can be given to him, and he may pay back the loan.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But he's getting the postal receipts, so let him keep those.

Prabhupāda: Yes. When it is matured...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's going to be matured in ten days, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I don't think it's advisable that we should pass entries in our accounts simply for ten days' time. By the time he goes back...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. He may take indirectly for the purpose with the help of Sandar.(?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he can take that money.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So this much you can do.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I fully agree. And I have no objection to giving one lakh. But I'm speaking from a legal point of view. It will injure us, and I don't want to be injured.

Vrindavan De: No, I can spare some little amount of interest. I can pay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's more jeopardizing. We can't charge interest. We cannot make profit on money loaned out, as a society. It goes against the laws of India. That's the whole point. Even if we gave it in any way, it's jeopardizing.

Vrindavan De: But you can put it easily on donation account, that charge interest.

Prabhupāda: No, Overseas Bank they can give.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Overseas Bank, they can give?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: On what basis?

Prabhupāda: Against their money. (break) You are depositing some money with the...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We've already deposited money with them.

Prabhupāda: So against that, they can give. Bank can give.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think I'll write a letter to Girirāja. It will take some time. Vrindavan will have to go to Bombay for this if he wants to negotiate this loan. The loan has to be between the bank and him, not between our Society and the bank. That's my point. It's his private business. It has to be kept on a basis like that. Otherwise it's... If the bank... Girirāja may help them. Now we've given the bank instruction that five persons... See, one thing is that all... (break) This... If you think this arrangement suitable, then give them...

Vrindavan De: It is, moreover, a prestigious issue to us. And we have already committed them that we are able to supply, although we don't have any sufficient money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So I think, based upon this scheme...

Vrindavan De: And that's why I sent my man twice to...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I know, but Prabhupāda was not... We never saw your man. He missed us. He missed both times.

Vrindavan De: When he came here, Prabhupāda had already left for London. And when my man went to Bombay, already left for Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: But in business field, if the bank sees that you have got fifty percent, they will advance. If you have got fifty percent, any transaction, you wait to do some business...

Vrindavan De: One thing, Tamāla, you know, I would like to have Prabhupāda's car for the time being.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...tomorrow probably. (indistinct) ...loan... Actually we're not loaning him that money. That money is being given as a gift to him. He was willing to pay it back. I said, no, this is a gift from you to him for improving his business. I said actually it's meant for each of the family members. I told him, "You use it now for improving your business. Then if business increases, you can eventually pay each one of them the money that they should have gotten." He said, "Very nice." And I explained to him what squandering meant. Now it is very clear. I told him that "You can use the money each month that you get. And all of you can use it for three things: for purchasing property, increasing business or buying government stocks." I said, "Prabhupāda's point is that whatever he's given you, it should increase in its value. He wants to see that it increases." And now it's very definite, so... Again I explained to him how there should be no difficulty with this, getting this... He's a little lazy. He's lazy. I could see that when he thought that the money was a donation, I think it came in his mind that "Even if the business deal doesn't go through, I still get the money." He should be encouraged, but his tendency is to be a little lazy. They should not be given money easily, too easily. Otherwise they won't work hard. He's also getting some money, he told me, from a fixed deposit in Calcutta from the BBT which he uses for travel expenses. He says gradually he will be paying some of that money back. He said that's why he sent you sometimes... He recently sent 870 rupees. He says that he's using it for travel expenses, and he may pay it back. I didn't know if you had arranged anything regarding that. You expect him to pay that money back, or not necessarily? It should be.

Prabhupāda: No, I expect.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So he's taking the certificate?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When he goes I'll give it to him. He'll take the certificates, and I'll dictate a letter. I'll write a letter to the bank, which I'll send to Bombay for Girirāja's signature. I'll also give him a copy of the notary of the power of attorney. So with all of these documents... He has sufficient time. It's only on the 7th of November that it comes due. With Chandra's help, he can get everything. Then it's up to him to negotiate with the bank for the loan. I don't think I should do that for him. I'm a sannyāsī. If I have to start doing his business for him..., I don't think you would want me to do that, do you?

Prabhupāda: Not to help him... If he can get some...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe he should try to get the loan through the Central Bank, Camac Street. They might be more inclined. They know he's, I think, connected with Your Divine Grace.

Prabhupāda: You have got some Central Bank passbooks?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have Central Bank passbooks. I don't know if I have one with us. It may be in Bombay or Calcutta. Just the fact that that bank is familiar with us.

Prabhupāda: They have to see where there is account money. I cannot remember.

Page Title:Loan (Conversations)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:08 of Mar, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=74, Let=0
No. of Quotes:74