Prabhupāda: And what is the purpose? Why? The religious principle means that this material life is not happy. And we are searching after happiness. So real happiness is not in this world. You take any, I mean to say, messiaḥ. You take Lord Jesus Christ or Buddha or Lord Caitanya or Kṛṣṇa, or anyone you take. Nobody says that "You make adjustment here and live peacefully." No. Nobody says. You know that. So religious principle means to know that this is not the place to live happily. This is the principle aim of teaching religion. We are trying to live here, making things nicely adjusted, peace and prosperity. That will never be possible. This is foolishness. So religion means, religiously trained mind means he will know that "This is not the place for me. I should (with)draw my attachment for this place, and I must know what is my necessity. I am a spirit soul. I am not this body. Therefore bodily necessities are not all my demands. I must have spiritual necessities also. So all this means that I must give up my attachment for this body and I must develop my spiritual needs." That is the purpose of religion. So here it is stated that vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ (SB 1.2.7).
Live peacefully (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Under the circumstances the śāstra or God has given a concession that you simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and gradually you will be elevated to the highest position of spiritual life. Other things you cannot follow. You are already fallen. So you take to this process of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra without any offense. And in order to save yourself from the offenses, a little austerity that you cannot have illicit sex life. Why should you have illicit sex life? Everyone's need is sex life. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam. These are the bodily needs. So śāstra has sanctioned, "All right. You can live peacefully by married life and have sex life for children, good children." That is allowed. But why should you have illicit sex life? What is this? Irresponsible life. "I shall not take responsibility of family life, and I shall go on as so-called bachelor and have illicit life." But that is not good. That is garhitāṁ. Na sādhu mānye: "This is not good." This is the advice of Vedic literature.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Just see. If you say that they are animal civilization, that is a great credit for them. It is less than animal civilization. Write all this in papers and everything, all openly. Challenge strongly. First of all, realize, then challenge. (break) Dharmeṇa hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. That is the special distinction, that their life, human life must be based on dharma, religion. They have rejected dharma. That is another type of frustration because the so-called leaders of religion, they could not give anything. They also exploited people under religious sentiment. Actually they could not make people religious. They did not know what is religion. And therefore people become, revolted: "What is this nonsense? They are living at our expenditure." We are real religious people. We are enlightening people about religion, life, about God. And these people they simply take money and live peacefully. And drink also. Here they drink wine. In India they drink gāñjā. You have been Rādhā-Dāmodara temple? You have seen that Gosāi?
Prabhupāda: According to time... Deśa-kāla-pātra. That kind of forceful, does not act very nicely. One should know the science, but the class of men to whom Jesus Christ said, they are not very much advanced. Under the circumstances, the fearfulness of hell is quite appropriate for them. Actually, one who does not go back to home, back to Godhead, he is put into the hellish condition of life. That is fearfulness, but we are so blunt that we do not take care. It is fearful. Just like Prahlāda Maharaja said that "Nṛsiṁhadeva, I am not afraid of your this fierce feature of Narasiṁha, but I am very much afraid of this materialistic way of life." Saṁsāra. Saṁsāra means this material world. So, it is actually very fearful. The whole atmosphere is fearful. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ (SB 10.14.58). To make adjustment, you have to accept something fearful. Just like this fight, "In future there may be some adjustment so that people may live peacefully. Therefore, we have to fight." This is also, the method is itself fearful. To gain a position where there will be no fear, we have to accept a fearful method. So, in the material world whatever we think, they are not very happy proposition, that's everything is fear. Karma-kāṇḍīya, they have to undergo so many hardship, then they get something profit. People are working so hard to get some profit. In the material world everything is fearful, hard-working.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: If people are disturbed in this way, both ways, from the state side and from the rogue side, then how they will live peacefully? Just like we sometimes say that if the politicians and the statesmen they are so irresponsible, fighting amongst themselves to capture the power, where is the time for them to think of people's welfare? They cannot. It is not possible. The same thing happened there. Tato api āsīd bhayaṁ tu adya kathaṁ syāt svasti dehinām. Svasti means peacefulness, dehinām, of the embodied living entities, dehinām.
Prabhupāda: That's it. Even you get bread, what do you get? Bread is already given even to the animals. That they do not know. Therefore, they take religion for material gain. Dharma artha. And Bhāgavata says, arthasya dharmaikāntasya kāmo lābhāya hi smṛtaḥ. When you get money, it is not for satisfaction of your senses. Kāmasya nendriya-prītir (SB 1.2.10). And when it is the question of kāma, desire, that does not mean sense gratification. Lābho jīveta yāvatā. Simply you have to accept thing for living. It is not that you shall not eat. You eat, live. Then what for living? Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā nārtho yaś ceha karmabhiḥ. Your working so hard is not that to develop your material condition of life. You live peacefully without any disturbance of hunger, but your life should be engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, asking about Kṛṣṇa. That is life. So we don't want to stop all the activities.
Prabhupāda: Well, it is still man's duty to become the husband and woman's duty to become the wife; so these propensities are there. But all this can be adjusted. I have many students and am getting them married, and they are living peacefully and advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Not that everyone is brahmacārī. We have many gṛhasthas and children. In this way the propensities of the women and those of the man are adjusted. A man wants a woman, and a woman wants a man, so we say, "All right, take it. Live peacefully, but don't change partners." We don't allow divorce; once they're married there is no separation. Nor do we allow boys and girls to live together as friends. If a man wants a woman and a woman wants a man, they should become united by marriage, live peacefully and advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is our proposal. In this way all facilities are there in this movement. Our program is to make people become godly, and everyone should help us. Every sane man should help this movement for the good of society.
Prabhupāda: (Sanskrit) Even in ordinary dealings, people will cheat you. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. (Sanskrit) Everyone is cheating. Even in ordinary talking, they will tell so many lies. (break) They live nicely in fresh air, in open air, trees, and talking about their business and they are happy. They have no problems for eating, sleeping, mating, nothing. Everything is there. And we are claiming civilized. We are dealing with science to improve conditions, the rascals they are becoming more and more degraded. They have no science, they have no laboratory, they have no university. How they are living peacefully? So it is... If this life is better or this life of cheating and imperfectness, full of anxieties, this life is better. Which life is better?
Jayatīrtha: The animals, they are living by the arrangement of nature, they live according to their nature. Whereas the human beings...
Prabhupāda: They have no anxiety.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Sometimes we find that peaceful living is visible even in animal society. Just like the cows. They're very peaceful. There are other animals, dogs and others. They fight. But hundreds and thousands of cows, they live very peacefully. Birds also... Just like the swans, they live very peacefully. So is that the highest goal of life, to live peacefully? Because that is also found in animal society. Is that the perfection of life?
Buddhist Monk (1): Yes, a man has to ask himself a simple and straightforward question. What really does he want to put his life to? Does he want suffering or peace?
Prabhupāda: No, suffering, of course, nobody wants. That's a fact.
Buddhist Monk (1): That's it, that's it...
Prabhupāda: But in this material world, even if you become peaceful, does it mean that you are out of suffering? I don't think.
Prabhupāda: We are not eating meat. We are not dying. We are eating so many nice things, prepared from vegetables, grains, milk. So that is not very important thing, that one has to eat meat and commit sinful life. So anyone can avoid it. They are not smoking, they are not drinking, they are not dying. So without smoking or without drinking, nobody will die. There are many things. No illicit sex. Why illicit sex? You are human being. You should have taken a woman as married wife and live peacefully. Why illicit sex? So still, if he cannot follow the four rules and regulations, if he agrees to chant only, then all other good qualities will come. And if these things are combined together refraining from sinful activities and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra—he is sure to become perfect in this life (and) go back to home, back to Godhead. That's all. Because without being purified, you cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam (BG 7.28). One who is freed from all sinful activities, he can be allowed to enter into the kingdom of God. The kingdom of God means the place for the pure, not for the impure. And impurity means sinful activities. So therefore Kṛṣṇa says, "You surrender unto Me.
Prabhupāda: Tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ hareḥ. Just like many of our disciples, as a matter of civilized man they should have remained at home, obedient to the parents, get married and live peacefully with father and mother. Of course, European, American boys, they do not do that. But it is expected that should be like that. Just like yourself. You should have lived with your father. He also. But you did not do this. So take it for granted, out of sentiment, you took to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tyaktvā sva-dharmam. To live family life, peaceful life, obedient life to the fathers and mothers, this is called sva-dharma. So one gives up this sva-dharma, tyaktvā sva-dharmam, and takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness gone... Not many, a few. So Bhāgavata says, yatra kva vābhadram abhūd amuṣya kim: "What is the wrong there?" Even if he has fallen down, half-way, still there is no wrong. He has gained something. That much service which he has already given to Kṛṣṇa, that is recorded. That is recorded. That is to his credit: "So this living entity has given service." But other men, he's very honestly living as a good citizen, as a good family member and good brāhmaṇa, good kṣatriya... So ko vārtha āpto 'bhajatāṁ sva-dharmataḥ. He's sticking to his own principle of life, but he's not a Kṛṣṇa conscious devotee. Then what is his gain?
Prabhupāda: Why? That means God is controller. You are controlled. You admit this.
Yaśomatīnandana: If these people are allowed to live forever then they will make this place more than a hell, worse than hell.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) God has given them everything actually, to live peacefully and try to understand God, but that they will not do. They will do something to try to forget God. That is their aim.
Yaśomatīnandana: Prabhupāda, is it true that if a person is very sinful, he reduces some years from his life? If a person is very, very sinful, extremely sinful, then he reduces some...
Prabhupāda: Reduce or increase, what is the profit?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We see the practical example. If you are alcoholic...
Prabhupāda: The money is to be kept in cattle and grains. That is Indian economy, cattle and grains. If you have got many cows, you get milk. Milk preparation. And if you have got grain, then where is your problem? You prepare your foodstuff at home and eat and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Where is your problem? You want to eat and live peacefully. So if you have got grains and milk, you have got enough food and there is no problem. You haven't got to go fifty miles for your work, and then you require a tin car. So many problems. But if you get your food at home, then eat them and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and go back to home, back to Godhead. Simple thing.
Prajāpati: So many people now employed in sinful activities, jobs that are to do with sinful life. If we get rid of these sinful activities, what will we find for these people to do to replace their jobs?
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Bali Mardana: There are thousands of islands in the Pacific.
Prabhupāda: Just see. Let them come and live here. Produce foodstuffs, have cows, fruits, flowers, live peacefully, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa; but they won't allow. Americans, yes, they have got so much land. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā (ISO 1). Whatever is Kṛṣṇa's property, you can... You are Kṛṣṇa's son; you can utilize it. But one son is prohibiting, "No, no, you cannot enter here." This is the problem. The so-called nationalism is dangerous. Just see how nice flowers, fruits, plant. Everything is there, complete.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Still, these fools, they do not know what is service, what is country, what is... They do not know this is māyā. (break) By nature's mercy, they got this nice human form of body, civilized. There is sufficient food, supplied by nature. You eat and be Kṛṣṇa conscious. Take advantage of the śāstras, lessons left by Kṛṣṇa and His devotees. Live peacefully, happily, and go back wherefrom you have come. But whole thing is spoiled by these misleaders. "Do your duty to your country." (laughs) What is that duty? I am working under the influence of material nature, and what is my duty? My only duty is to come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is my duty. (break) ...because we are prescribing so many duties, and there is no God. That's all. (break)
Akṣayānanda: You said that everyone could become a brāhmaṇa, in your lecture, last night. But at the same time there must always be the legs of society.
Prabhupāda: So the Pakistan will suffer for want of industry, and India will suffer for want of food. This is British plan for partition. They had no business to divide the country, but they wanted to do it as a parting kick, that "You want independence. You will have independence, but you will remain perpetually in war." That was British policy. None of them are benefiting. Occasionally they are fighting and losing so much money and men, that's all, a political game. Similarly, Germany is divided. Ireland is divided. This is going on. People are fighting, fighting, fighting. Leaders should be so sober and honest that the people should live peacefully, without any anxiety, without any want. That is the duty of the leaders to see. Perpetually they are in want, in scarcity, not in peace of mind, full of anxieties. In India especially, we see, the economy is so unsteady. The money value is decreasing every day. Nobody knows what will be tomorrow. Rice is selling today at two rupees kilo, tomorrow, three rupees, next day, four rupees. Where is the income is coming? Therefore there is strike, railway strike. So this is the mismanagement. They cannot guarantee. At least in England I have seen that... Or why the England? In America also, the people are happy in this: they have got enough foodstuff, no scarcity. You see?
Prabhupāda: Many countries... Especially we are Indian. We have seen in India. Nowadays there is no eatables. The government cannot supply food, failure, the problem which is not even amongst the beasts and birds. The birds and beasts, they have no such problem. They are freely living, jumping from one tree to another, because they know there is no problem of eating. And human society, there is problem of eating. What is the advancement? And there is enough place for producing food. I have seen Africa, Australia. Enough place. If the foodstuff is produced there, ten times of the population can be well fed. But they are: "Don't enter. Don't come here." The Africans will say to the Indians, "Don't come here. Go out." What is this? Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice. We say, "Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. We are all sons of Kṛṣṇa. Let us live peacefully and utilize Kṛṣṇa's property." This is the best philosophy. But the so-called politicians and leaders, they are saying "No, you cannot enter here," immigration. America has got enough place to produce food.
Prabhupāda: And the water is distributed over the land, parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ so there will be sufficient food grains. And annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). And if there is sufficient to eat, have sufficient eatables to the animals and to the men, then everything is prosperous. So where is that arrangement? There is enough land, enough possibility, enough water. Now utilize them and produce food grain, eat nicely and live peacefully and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and go back to home, back to Godhead. This is our philosophy. Why there should be industry? You want to eat after all. Instead of eating this flesh, killing poor animals, why don't you produce food grains, fruits, flowers, food grain, and take milk from the animals and produce milk products, all nutritious food, all nice food, and be happy and remember God for His kindness. This is civilization. What is this nonsense civilization? Now there is petrol problem. I see so many buses, and not a single man, one or two men. And for two men a big huge bus is being run, and so much petrol is consumed unnecessarily. I have seen.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is giving you everything in right way so that you can save your time, you do not waste your time, and you can advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is required. We don't say that you stop eating. You eat. Take little Kṛṣṇa prasādam. We don't say that "Don't sleep." No, you sleep, but must rise early in the morning for maṅgala-ārati. This is our philo... Eating, sleeping, and sex. No, we don't say no sex life. Yes, you have sex life. Get your bona fide wife, live peacefully. And defense also, we have. We never say that you forego all these things. No, this is not our philosophy. But similarly, as much as you absolutely require, not more than that. The balance time, save for advancement. These people are simply engaged for eating, sleeping, mating. They have no time for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This condemned civilization must be stopped. Killing, killing civilization. The human being got the opportunity of getting out of this punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30),
Prabhupāda: No, both the male and female. The bullocks are used for so many other purposes. They can till the field. They can be used for transportation, so many other purposes. Or even we are spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness. During Kṛṣṇa's time... Kṛṣṇa was born of a very well-to-do father, but at that time the bullocks were engaged for transportation from one village to another, one village to another. Or for carrying goods. Actually the United Nations should now think how the whole human society can live peacefully for a purpose of life, not whimsically, without any purpose of life. Now, anywhere... We are preaching. We are going everywhere. If I ask any gentleman, any philosopher, any scientist , if I ask him that "What is the purpose of life?" he cannot explain. That means there is lack of intelligent class of men. Nobody knows what is the purpose of life.
Prabhupāda: So put into action this proverb. So that is... You are one of the leading mayor. That is our appeal. What is unreasonableness in our proposal that so long the cow lives...? Cow, every cow gives milk. So it fulfills your proverb also. So under the circumstances, let the cows live peacefully, take milk and make this preparation of cow's milk, and when it is dead, free of charges. (French)
Yogeśvara: He says he will try to take to heart what you have told him today, and he thanks you for having received him.
Prabhupāda: So kindly do this service. Kṛṣṇa will bless you.
M. Mesman: Thank you. Thank you very much.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (end)
Prabhupāda: Then what is the value of your, this horseless carriage? You are dependent on God. What you have created? And what you can do? You can create war only to fight, man to man, and when you are in danger, then you go to church; "God save us. God save us." That you can create. And as far as peacefully living, accepting God as the Supreme, you can create war. That's all. That means... Like dogs, they create war. So this is a nice park. Why do you go so far? It is nice park. Now you create something to enjoy. Just like who created this building? Napoleon?
French Devotee (1): No.
Prabhupāda: Then?
French Devotee (1): It's not by Napoleon. It's just...
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So that is the defect, that the modern civilization, they are not taking care of the spirit soul; they are simply taking care of the machine, body. Therefore the problems are there. You asked, "How to solve the problems?" The problems are there on account of this, that they are not taking care of the driver; they are simply taking care of the machine body. So if you take care of the driver, then he will remain sane, he will drive nicely, the body will not be disastrous, he will live peacefully. This is the problem. If the driver is careful, then he will not require very frequently the mechanical engineer for the car. He will keep the machine in order. If he keeps himself sane, then he keeps the machine also order.
Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): That's what he said at the beginning.
Prabhupāda: So then what is your program to take care of the driver?
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you manufacture your program of enjoyment, then you will be slapped. And if you enjoy according to the direction of the father, then you'll enjoy. This is the... Kṛṣṇa says, "Enjoy life. All right. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī. Live peacefully. Always think of Me. Worship Me." That we have prescribed. Come here and think of Kṛṣṇa. And so that is enjoyment. So they don't want. They want liquor. They want illicit sex. They want meat. So therefore they must be slapped. Actually all this whole universe is made for your enjoyment, but enjoy it according to His direction. Then you will enjoy. That is the difference between demigod and demon. The demon wants to enjoy, manufacturing his own way of life. And the demigod, they enjoy better than the demons because under the direction of God.
Jagadīśa: Why does Kṛṣṇa provide the living entities with these sinful pleasures?
Prabhupāda: No, varṇāśrama. Vānaprastha, just like we have got this building. Now, if somebody retires and engages himself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, they are welcome. They can take prasādam and stay here. It is not possible at the present moment that gentleman will live in the forest. That is not possible. Then here is a place, Vṛndāvana, holy place. We have constructed this building, and people should take vānaprastha, or retirement, and may come here and live peacefully and cultivate spiritual knowledge.
Brahmānanda: I think the governor was asking about the varṇāśrama college.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Varnāśrama college, that training factual brāhmaṇa. And the government should be, as I explained to you, that if one is proclaiming himself as a brāhmaṇa, he must act as a brāhmaṇa. If one is proclaiming as a kṣatriya, he must act as a kṣatriya. Otherwise, there will be no restriction, and a śūdra will claim to be brāhmaṇa. That will create a disturbing situation. In Pṛthu Mahārāja's time it was strictly prohibited that... That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā, sva-dharme nidhanaṁ śreyaḥ para-dharmo bhayāvahaḥ.
Prabhupāda: You are killing; the blood is not utilized, you are taking the flesh. But flesh is transformation of the blood. And milk is also transformation of the blood. So if you take, just like channa, it is as good as flesh. By taste, by benefit—as good as. So why if you can take the flesh and blood in a human way-blood is transformed into milk, and from milk there are so many good preparations-ghee, yoghurt, burfi, channa, so many preparations are available. This panir, channa, and let the animal live peacefully. Why are you cutting his throat? You require some benefit from the animal. Take this benefit. Why should you kill? If he can live and give better service, then why shall I try to kill? What is this human civilization? Is that human civilization, that I am taking service from you, and I am cutting your throat? Is that humanity? What is the answer?
Jayadharma: No, it's animal civilization.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is fourth class. This is the proof. Fourth-class men administering... Just like misadministration not immediately detected. After some time, when the case is unmanageable, it is detected. Therefore fourth-class men. Simply these Western people, they know how to earn money by hook and crook. So, so long the money is there it is covered, the fourth-class men. And when the money is finished, they are exposed, fourth-class men. They're simply covered by money. No social structure, no spiritual understanding, no character, nothing of the sort. Still India, so fallen, you... 95% people, living, husband and wife, very peacefully. And in the Western countries after six months' marriage, divorce. Are they not fourth class? Even the husband and wife cannot continue peaceful life, what to speak of others. Now this rascal Jawaharlal Nehru has introduced divorce in the Hindu society. Otherwise in the Hindu society separation between husband and wife is not even dreamt of. That, it cannot be. However there may be quarrelsome, but there is no question of separation. Husband and wife, they fight, everywhere. I have seen. My father and mother was fighting. I fought. (laughter) But there is no question of separation. Separation, they never think. Neither the husband can think of, nor the wife can think of. Even in the life of Gandhi there was fight between husband and wife, and the Gandhi one day drove his wife, "Get out from my home." So she was put into the street, and she began to cry, "Where shall I go?" And then Gandhi ans..., "Come on." Yes. And Cāṇakya Paṇḍita said, bambhārambhe laghu-kriyā. The husband and wife may fight. It becomes a very serious thing, but don't take of it as serious. This is Hindu philosophy. Husband and wife quarrel should not be taken as very serious. They fight and again they live peacefully. Why this divorce? The divorce mean it kills the whole family life. The children goes away; the father goes away; the mother goes away. I have seen so many cases.
Prabhupāda: We say that you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, eat here sumptuously, live here comfortably, and you become peaceful. It is guaranteed. If anyone, even a madman, agrees to these three principles, that let him chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, take whatever nice foodstuff we prepare, take, and live peacefully, he will be peaceful.
Director: What's your answer that such a small percentage of the population, tiny percentage of the population, accept the philosophy that...
Prabhupāda: Tiny percentage. Just like there are so many stars in the sky, and there is one moon. In percentage the moon is nothing. If we take percentage of the stars, the moon is nothing. But moon is important than all the nonsense stars. (laughter) But if you take percentage, he has no percentage vote. But because he is moon, he is important than all these rascal stars. This is the example. What is the use of taking percentage of the stars in the presence of moon? Let there be one moon, that is sufficient. There is no question of percentage. One ideal man. Just like in Christian world, one ideal Lord Jesus Christ.
Prabhupāda: So we have got food grains, we have got fruits, we have got milk. By combination of milk and food grains we can prepare so many nice palatable, full of vitamins. Why we should kill the animal? Let the animal live and take it's milk and prepare nice food, full of vitamins. Milk is nothing conversion of blood. So why do you take the blood by killing? Take the blood in a different form, milk. This is our program. Let the animal live peacefully, and if you are meat-eaters, let the animal die and you eat. There will be no charge for it. The meat-eaters, let us keep some animal, take milk, and when it dies naturally, you call the meat-eater, "Please take this." You take the skin free, you take the bones free, you eat meat. Just wait for the death. It will die after all. That much concession I want. But let the animal live without any fear of being killed so it will supply more milk. Suppose if you know that I am keeping you here for killing. Will you be very happy?
Prabhupāda: If you advance in civilization or do not advance in civilization, you will die. That is sure. Then why do you labor so much? Huh? The animals, they do not labor so much. They live peacefully on the condition of the nature. Why do you labor so much? If the result is the same—the animal will die and you will die—then why you are laboring so much for nothing? That means they have no common sense even. Therefore they are rascals. That is discussed in Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa said to Arjuna, "If you think there was no life before this body and if you think that there will be no life after this body, then why you are anxious for the body of your brothers and sisters?" So all these philosophies have been discussed in Bhagavad-gītā. After all, the conclusion is that they are all rascals. That's all. We have to take them as such rascals. After death everything is finished—that a child knows—but why you are making so permanent building? Piling, (imitates pile driver sound) "Donkhs!
Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. That is foolishness, that... They have no future. So it is useless, "Keep out." Imagination, concoction, foolishness—this is the basic principle of material civilization. Mūḍhā, that's all. "I am asking to keep out; I do not know how long I shall live here." That he does not think. "I am asking others, keep out." If somebody asks him, "You are asking others to keep out, but when you will be asked to keep out, who will protect you? Is there any protection? Will your sons and grandsons and wife will protect you?"... That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, pramatto tasya nidhanaṁ paśyann api na paśyati, dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣu ātmaśainyeṣu (SB 2.1.4). He is thinking that "These, my wife, children, and relatives and friends, will protect me not to be thrown out." But that is not possible. He will be thrown out. He will have to be kept out. And that is not by accident. Everyone knows, "Yes." That is not arranged. It is already arranged. Where is the question of accident? It will take place. But paśyann api na paśyati, he is so rascal blind, although he knows, still he forgets. Forgets not. He tries to forget. Paśyann api na paśyati. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Do all these things, but remember Kṛṣṇa. Be attached to Kṛṣṇa. That is your business. And if you do not awaken that consciousness, then whatever you have done, śrama eva hi kevalam: simply waste of time and labor. That he doesn't know. Śrama eva hi kevalam. He has got to work hard for constructing building like this and keep others out and live peacefully. But when he will be kicked out, then all this labor is useless. Śrama eva hi kevalam.
Siddha-svarūpa: It's like these so many gurus. They're not actually enemies. They're actually individually working to exploit the people. And if they get in each other's way, if one person tries to take the other person's followers, then there's some clash or something. But as long they can leave each other alone and don't fight and work independently, exploiting, then they live peacefully.
Bali-mardana: Honor among thieves.
Prabhupāda: "Thief, thief, cousin brother." Cora cora, pasura bhai. So far our position is that we are not concerned with anything with this universe. We are concerned with Kṛṣṇaloka. So whatever one may say, one other may say, we don't care for that. We are not going to the moon planet, Jupiter(?) planet.
Prabhupāda: That "American" that I have discussed. Those who are in the bodily concept of life, they are not even human being. They are animals. Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). One who takes this body, "I am, I am American, I am German, I am Englishman, I am Indian," they are animals. They are not even human being. When you deny, that "I am not American, I am not Indian, not Englishman. I am not this body," then he is in the spiritual body. That's all. And so long he will identify that "I am this body, and because my body is American, therefore I am American," that is animal life. That is not even human life. So that is going on all over the world, identifying the body as self. "I am American, I am German, I am Englishman, I am Indian." The whole United Nation is based on this conception. So where is the unity? If you are thinking as "American" or "Indian" or "Pakistani" or "German," so where is the question of unity? But they have manufactured a false method, United Nations, by lecturing. Just like if you bring a dozen of dogs and ask them, "Live peacefully," will they live peacefully? They will bark, "Ow! Ow! Ow!" So this is going on. If you keep them as they are, dogs, how you can expect unity? So they should not remain as dogs. They should come to become human beings, then there is question of... But they want to keep them as dogs, and at the same time, they want to unite. Therefore it is unsuccessful. Is it not? Is it not unsuccessful?
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Brahmānanda: Then what else?
Bhāvānanda: Then he said that "I can tell from his face that he can make a house in which the whole world can live peacefully."
Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda!
Prabhupāda: At least I desire so. (break) Where your preaching was going on?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We were preaching in Berkeley, California. Our other parties are spread out all over the country. One party is in Massachusetts, another party is in the South, southern United States.
Prabhupāda: Where in Massachusetts?
Prabhupāda: Then why he has become man? Why not animal? Therefore the śāstra says, "One who is engaged in these animal activities, he is animal. He is not man." Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma idya-dhīḥ (SB 10.84.13). Actually, man is doing like that. In the jungle the similar animals, they flock together. This nationalism is like that. It is nothing better than that. So our defending, that "We are Americans," "We are Indians," "We are Germans"—the same thing. Because they are animals, they have this United Nations. The animals will fight, so they are trying to compromise, "Let us live peacefully." That is not possible because they are animals, all failure. (break)
Paramahaṁsa: Under the threat of nuclear warfare wouldn't Kṛṣṇa consciousness be more easy to spread?
Prabhupāda: So you have to study first of all what is nature's law. You cannot surpass the nature's law. That is not possible. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Nature's law will go on. Best thing is, let the hand... the hand can typewrite, but if you say "No, the leg will typewrite," that is not possible. Take hand's business, take leg's business, and combine them cooperatively. Then the body will be nice. If the leg says "Why hand will type? I shall type," that's not possible. "Legs, all right, you walk, and hands that you type." Then combine together. Then it will be nice. You cannot change the different capacities. There is God's law, nature's law. Let the man and woman combine together, live peacefully. The woman takes charge of the household affairs, the man may take charge of bringing money, and they meet together, have Deity at home, together chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Where is the difficulty? That is unity.
Nityānanda: No snow, it's always rain. We can grow vegetables in the summer, and different vegetables in the winter. So the cows they can stay outside all year. They don't have to stay in the barn, it's warm enough.
Prabhupāda: Very ideal spot. Develop it and show how we can live peacefully.
Nityānanda: This combination of a temple in the city where they can preach and bring people out to their farm is very good.
Prabhupāda: ...healthy place.
Nityānanda: So mostly gṛhasthas should stay on the farms, or brahmacārīs also?
Prabhupāda: No, brahmacārīs and sannyāsīs especially they should preach. And gṛhasthas may produce necessities. They also preach, preaching everyone. Especially for brahmacārī and sannyāsī. (end)
Prabhupāda: Then why you say you are advanced civilization? That is forbidden. Kaṣṭan kāmān na arhati. It is not desirable; it is not good. You are given this body different from this pig because you will live peacefully and happily. Why should you accept kaṣṭan kāman, so hardship? Actually they do not want to work hard. Otherwise why the proprietor, the capitalist, they leave the factory and go to a solitary place? Why does he go?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't find any happiness even in the hard work.
Prabhupāda: The other worker, he is seeing that "This rascal has engaged us in hard work and he is enjoying. So drive him out. Kill him." This is communism. Everyone wants that, comfort, peacefully living. Therefore this civilization, to work hard, is condemned. If hard work is desirable why the capitalists avoiding? Hm? What is answer?
Prabhupāda: So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we are trying to eradicate this conception of life, bodily conception of life. The animals... An animal, he is also thinking, "I am dog," "I am cat," "I am cow," "I am ass," on account of this bodily concept of life. And if we human beings, we also remain in that bodily concept of life, then we are no better than the animals. So if we remain animals, there cannot be any peace. You bring a dozens of dogs, and if you keep them, they cannot be improved. They will remain as animal. They have no capacity. And if you ask them to live peacefully, it is not possible, because they are animals. Similarly, if we human beings, although we are not animals, but we are not being educated as human being, and therefore we remain as animal, so how there can be any peace? The animal eats; we eat. The animal sleeps; we sleep. The animals have sex life; we have got sex life. The animal defends; we also defend. So if we remain engaged only on the principles of four demands of body, then we remain animal. Our extra education requires that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul." And there is necessity of the soul. If we don't come to this platform, then we remain animals.
Prabhupāda: Just we are doing so many places. So you produce your own food grains, not for making money but just for feeding yourself and the animals, cows. Keep cows, as many cows as possible, and produce, till the ground, field, and make water supply arrangement. If the investment is required, we shall do that. You have no worry about investment. We shall bring money from anywhere. But the work must be done very nicely. There must be good arrangement for water supply and for plowing and keeping the cows in order. Then you get sufficient milk, sufficient food grains and produce your own cloth. The girls and ladies, they can spine (spin) thread, and from the thread you make cloth, handlooms. So your first necessities of life, eating, and make little cottage, sleeping... And if you want sex, get yourself married, live peacefully. And when you are there you can defend yourself. So the first necessity is how to eat and how to cover. That you have to provide. That is not difficult.
Prof. Olivier: Then basically they and myself and others want to know how do we get this spirit into our own hearts and how does this then issue out into everyday living.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is all explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, how to live peacefully in this world and go back to home, back to Godhead. This is the whole thing is explained very nicely.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's not that everyone will become a monk.
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Not everyone will become a jeweler or a teacher. But all different occupations must be there in society. Simply they have to somehow or another become God-centered.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We have giving them shelter also, food, cloth, everything, giving them proper chance to live peacefully and be God conscious.
Indian man (3): And in the way of hospitals?
Prabhupāda: Hospitals, there are many, but real hospitals... to cure the material disease, there is no hospital. They are... There are hundreds and thousands of hospitals for curing the disease of the body, but there is no hospital to cure the disease of the soul. That is the defect. So we are opening hospital for curing the disease of the soul. They have no information about the soul throughout the whole world. Even so-called religious organizations, they have no information about the soul. They go to religious ceremonies for material profit. They do not know what is the necessity of the soul and what is the disease of the soul. They do not know. (break) ...nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. What is the goal of life, these people, they do not know, mūḍhas. Mūḍha means rascals, gadha.
Prabhupāda: There was no Indian leader. That was occupied by the Mohammedans. They were deteriorating. Yes. Besides that, Indian mass of people, they were never trained to become nationalist. They thought, “Let anyone become king. It doesn’t matter. We… Let us live peacefully, and whatever due tax we shall pay. That's all.” When the Mohammedans came the people did not think that these are foreigners. "It does not matter, Mohammedan, Hindu." But they did not think so far that gradually it will deteriorate. Even Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, he has favored the British government because they did not interfere with the religious affair.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (entering car) Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Over the Muslims.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot fix anything. You can simply think that "I am now fixed up." That is not possible. Even if you fix up one type of suffering, another type of suffering will come. So suffering must be there. The body means suffering. One should understand this, that asann api kleṣada asa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). Na sādhu manye yato ātmano 'yam asannapi kleṣada asa dehaḥ. You are trying to adjust things, threefold miserable condition, but you should understand that as soon as you get this material body, it will be suffering only. Therefore whole Vedic civilization is a culture how to stop this material body. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they are also trying. The Buddhists, they are also trying. But they are thinking that "There is no soul. Finish this body." This is Buddhist theory. But they know that this is suffering. Similarly, the Māyāvādī, they also know this body is suffering, so they want to come out of the body and merge into the existence of God. The senses are already there, either Buddhist or Māyāvādī. And Vaiṣṇava philosophy is "Not only come out of this miserable condition of life, but enter into Kṛṣṇa's family and live peacefully." But so far the body is bad, it is accepted by all philosophies. Any kind of Indian philosophy, they will accept that body is bad.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are working. We are not sitting idle. Now, for our food, if we just get some food by plowing some land for the animal, cows, and for me, and the cow is giving me milk, the tree are giving me fruit, why shall I work so hard? The business of dogs and hogs, whole day and night simply working for getting food and sense gratification? That is not civilization. Live peacefully, get your nice food, and save time to advance in spiritual life. This is civilization. And simply for little comfort for a few years I have wasted my time in so many humbug comforts. Actually that is... What is this comfort of the skyscraper building? I think it is a mechanical prison.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Matchbox also.
Prabhupāda: Matchbox.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You said last night that without electricity it would be hell.
Prabhupāda: It is hell. And we are creating this hell.
Prabhupāda: Possess, you can possess. Tena tyaktena bhuñjithā (ISO 1). The real proposal is that everything belongs to God. Then God's representative, king, he gives you land. But you require for ten men's foodstuff. You calculate the ten men's foodstuff, for producing, you require so much land, so the king gives you land. You work and grow your food. And because it is God's property, you give some tax. Whatever you produce, twenty-five percent give to God or king, and balance, you enjoy. If there is no production—no tax. This is peaceful life. You work. You take land, God's land. You cannot... Why you have occupied so much land? Others, they are not allowed to enter; where there is overpopulation? How you can expect peace? Just like in China and India and other places they're overpopulation. Why don't you allow them, that "In Africa there is no sufficient population. Please come and toil and grow your food and live peacefully"? Where is that formula? Rascals, they are wanting peace. All rascal, rogues. And why they have become rascal, rogues? For want of God consciousness. They do not know that it is God's property, falsely thinking, "My property."
Prabhupāda: Well, you are the same Indian. Why you are not lazy here? It is the government's policy or government's management. You see? To become lazy is the recommendation of the śāstra. To become lazy... It is a bad word, "lazy," but actually life means not to work very hard. That is real life. And to work hard for eating, that is animal life, that is not human life. Human life should be very peaceful, without any hard work, and cultivating spiritual knowledge. That is human life, not that, to work hard like hogs and dogs throughout the whole day for find out some stool, where it is. That is not human life. So people are being educated to work very hard. That is not human life. Therefore those who have got money, they build nice bungalow in a secluded place to live peacefully, to become lazy. Is it not?
Indian man (1): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because this is necessary. You must have some shelter; you must eat; you must cover. That is necessary. So you do it. Grow food first of all to feed yourself sumptuously. You must get strength, and that is needed. But not for trade. The policy should be that you should be self-sufficient and save time for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is wanted. Yavad-ārtha prayojanam. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya yogo bhavati siddhi-daḥ. You shall eat whatever you require for proper upkeep of the body, not eating too much and sleeping whole day. Don't do that. Eat only what is absolutely necessary. Then you'll never be in want. People are engaged in material civilization means they are increasing the bodily demands, unnecessary. Just like this park. Why we have come to this park? We like this atmosphere. So similarly, in villages, everyone, if he has got some land, he can live simply without any gorgeous building. What is the use? Just have a cottage and have garden. You'll live very peacefully. But they're constructing big, big skyscraper building in the downtown, and they will have to come here by car for some peace of mind, and in the meantime, accident, police. This is the civilization, nonsense civilization. At weekend they will go to the village, country, and during the week-time they will work hard. This is their civilization, with the risk of life, running motor car eighty miles' speed. Every moment there is risk. What is this civilization? Most ludicrous civilization. So farming means if you live in a farm... Just like in New Vrindaban they are doing. Produce your own food, live peacefully, fresh vegetable, fresh grains, fresh milk, and prepare so many nice milk preparation, kachori, halavā with ghee.
Prabhupāda: The simple method that everything belongs to God... The king is the representative of God, and he distributes the land amongst the kṣatriyas. Just like knighthood or in Mussulman times, subedat(?), and in Hindu times, the subordinate king. Just like Pāṇḍavas, they were the emperors, and under them there were many hundreds and thousands of kings, states. And everything belongs to God. So why fighting? Take it. It is God's property. We are all sons of God. But there is no culture, Aryan culture. They do not know how to live peacefully and cultivate spiritual culture. They do not know. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśāya ye bahir-artha... (SB 7.5.31). And durāśāya, bad hopes or hopes against hope, they're trying to be happy, bahir-artha, by the external energy, material, most fallen ideas, all foolish theories without any knowledge. Material, that's all. Bahir artha, external energy. Otherwise there is no cause of anxiety or distress. There is enough land. They can produce enough food and live peacefully.
Prabhupāda: Because both of them have already developed that "She is my wife," "He is my husband," psychologically. And there was no question of divorce. The love is so strong, they cannot dream even that "I have to leave my wife," "I have to leave my husband." They cannot dream it. They may fight. The husband and wife fighting, that is not unusual. Therefore Canakya Paṇḍita says, "Fight between the husband, wife, never take it seriously." Daṁpatye kalahe caiva baṁbhāraṁbhe laghu-kriya: "They'll make all arambha, but it is not very important. Don't take." Next moment they will again live peacefully. So according to Indian culture, there is no divorce. There is no question of divorce. Both the husband and wife, they cannot dream of divorce. The love was so strong. Even Gandhi's life, he fought with his wife and pushed her out of the house: "Get out, I don't want you." And Kasturabhai, she began to cry on the street, "Where shall I go? You have driven me away." Then Gandhi said, "Come on." Finished. (laughter) He has written in his life.
Prabhupāda: That is the first education, first instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā, beginning of Bhagavad-gītā-dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Unless one understands that "There is change of body and I am spirit soul within this body," he remains a cat and dog, and that's all. Dehātmā-buddhiḥ. Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhātuke sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). So we are keeping this civilization—animals. How there can be peace? You cannot make several dogs, bring them together as nation, and they will live peacefully. It is not possible that "You all dogs come here and feel nationally and be peaceful." Will the dogs will be able to do that? Because you are dog, it is not possible.
Dr. Patel: (Hindi) They fight among themselves for nothing.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: First World War, yes. That was futile. Again you have started United Nation. Where is the benefit? There cannot be benefit. If you keep the dogs as dog, you bring them, "You Australian dog, come here, and American dog, come here, and European dog, come here. Live peacefully," will they live peacefully? So if you keep the human society as cats and dogs, how can you expect peace? They must be human being. Then there will be peace. So this is the training how to make human being, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now these boys, they are also Europeans, Americans. They are coming from respectable, very educated.... They'll never ask for a chair. "Sit down. That's all." The necessities of life, artificial necessities, reduced, and time is saved for understanding the value of life. Without motorcar your life will not be spoiled. You can walk. But without Kṛṣṇa consciousness your life is spoiled. So how.... We recommend that "First of all understand yourself." Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is your prime business. And so far necessities of body, that can be done according to the circumstances. So if we simply waste our time for increasing unnecessary necessities of life and do not try to understand the value of life, then we remain animal.
Prabhupāda: But, he lives on the lap of mother, that's all.
That is child. Child is satisfied on the lap of the mother, that's what I am saying. He doesn't.... The child doesn't care, "I have to know the father." But there is father, that's a fact. That means the present civilization is childish civilization. Does not care to know the father. So, whether the human civilization will remain child, children. They fight amongst themselves. Children, however you can.... "My dear children, live peacefully." So for the time being they may be. Again they will fight, they will cry. That is going on. What the United Nations has done? For the last forty years, they're fighting like children or animals. So you keep..., if you keep them as child or animals, do you think there will be peace? That is not possible. It is to the talking of big, big words for peace. That is not possible. It is futile attempt. They're talking of big, big wars (indistinct), that is not possible. I think in Melbourne I, in my press interview, I said if the United Nations is working.
Prabhupāda: There are many men who do not go to the university and live peacefully. But that does not mean university is useless. Similarly, many men may not come to us, that does not mean this institution is useless. It has its importance for the serious men, not for the asses.
Richard: Right, but do you think...
Prabhupāda: Just like this university, they are serious for education, and they are ordering our books. Others may not order; they are not reading. That means they are not serious.
Richard: Only the people who are...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Knowledge is for the intelligent class of men.
Richard: But there are many types of knowledge, and there are many ranges, depths of knowledge.
Prabhupāda: So many types, this is also one type of knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Just see. There is story like that. One saintly person was sitting, and some karmīs came, that: "You are escaping, you are not working." So he said, "Why shall I work?" "You'll get money." "So what shall I do with the money?" "Then you can live peacefully." "I am living peacefully. Why shall I work?" (laughs) So they want to earn money, keep a good bank balance, and at the end of the life they want to live very peacefully, without any working. But if somebody is living peacefully without working, they will criticize him. Envious. They will accuse him, "You are escaping." If the end is this, and I shall live peacefully without any work—I am doing that in my own standard—why you are bothering me?
Scheverman: Now, how would you proceed in this training program? I'd be interested in that.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is.... If I say that "Live peacefully," this instruction is neither exclusively for America or Indian. It is for everyone.
Scheverman: That's universal, peaceful, that's universal.
Prabhupāda: Universal. What is another quality? Peaceful, and then?
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Self-control.
Prabhupāda: Self-control. This is also not either for American or.... "The Americans should not be self-controlled, only Indians should be self-controlled." (laughter) This is not the proposal. Self-control. Then?
Prabhupāda: That is due to misgovernment. There is no king; all rogues and thieves are in the government. Mismanagement. It is the government duty to see that everyone is doing nicely so that they can live peacefully, happily. There must be direction. Just like parentless children. Nobody is to take care; they'll be wretched. So India's position is like that. The parentless children. There is no good government. And they supply this control wheat that is not even touchable. Unfit for human consumption. There is a worm...
Hari-śauri: Control wheat?
Prabhupāda: Yes. They purchase from here and there all rejected wheat, and they supply it. There is no ghee, no milk, no proper food grain. Everything black market. Any necessary commodity you cannot have in the open market; you have to purchase in black market. Just like for the building purpose, cement. In your country you can purchase any amount of it. You cannot purchase. You have to purchase black market, and that cement also mixed with some... What is that? And unless you give some bribe, it is not possible. (break)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Nobody has criticized them. They have taken it seriously; otherwise, why they have published? Yes, that's right. What they have done except barking? "I am American," "I am Russian," "I am this," "I am that," that's all. If you keep them dogs and hogs and, nicely dressed, they go to United Nations and talk of unity, is it possible? Can the dogs and hogs can unite? Common sense. You bring all the dogs of this neighborhood and ask them "Don't bark now. Live peacefully," (laughter) will they be able? (laughs) The United Nation is like that. They're kept as dogs and they're advised, "Now keep peacefully." Is it possible? They have no common sense even. First of all, let them become human beings. Conference is going on, big conference, and Jawaharlal Nehru has imitated, that in the conference there are different languages, different..., but if somebody is speaking in any language you'll hear it in your own language.
Prabhupāda: Abhirucir, yes. Now formerly marriage was a religious ceremony. Marriage was, this boy and this girl should be married, it is a religious function where the father and mother will see their horoscope and see if they are compatible, they will agree, they will live peacefully, so many things are there. Still, in India such things are calculated by the parents of the boy and the girl. But in this Kali-yuga, dāmpatye abhirucir. Abhirucir means the boy and the girl, if he likes, if he says, that's all. No other calculation. And the, after three days after marriage, there is divorce. (laughter) Because abhirucir, "I like, I don't like," that's all. Now I like, and after three days I don't like, finished, business. In Chicago I saw a newspaper. One girl, within three weeks she has divorced two husbands. (laughter) Yes, I saw it in the newspaper.
Prabhupāda:So this, formerly the father, mother used to see that this boy and this girl are going to be married. So by horoscope, by other circumstances, by family, cultural, by education, so many things, whether they will live peacefully. That was the understanding. Husband-wife means, a man requires a woman, a woman requires a man. They should be combined in such a way that they can live peacefully. If there is no disturbance of the mind, then they can make further progress in spiritual life. Therefore marriage is also necessary, and that must be properly done. This was the... Now there is no such consideration. The boys and girls are free, and if one likes the other... Dāmpatye, what is that?
Pradyumna: Dāmpatye 'bhirucir hetur.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Ruci. Ruci means liking. Then?
Prabhupāda: Ugra-karmāṇaḥ, the factory. This is ugra-karma. Pradyumna was describing ugra-karma, hellish. Little karma, just wheat is growing, a little tilling, that is sufficient. What is the use of opening big, big factory? Ugra-karma. What it has helped? You were talking on behalf of them. What it has helped? Keeping them. Innocent men, women, they are kept in that factory simply for livelihood. A little work will provide his needs. Nature has given so much facility. They can grow little food anywhere. The cows are there in the pasturing ground. Take milk and live peacefully. Why you open factories? What is the use? Keeping them in hellish condition of life. So this is the description. Now discuss these points.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: You say, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they engage in unbeneficial horrible works meant to destroy the world and that this refers to the atomic weapons. This is so true.
Prabhupāda: Yes, God's speaking, Kṛṣṇa is speaking.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: I was studying this nuclear energy in college, thinking that it would save the world. That by the energy they could make bigger tomatoes, bigger corn, and...
Prabhupāda: They are doing this. Scientific brain means there are so many problems, they are trying to solve it. That requires brain. But because they are poor scientists, they do not know how to make a solution of the ultimate problem. They are making tiny problems, that's all. There is power shortage, all right, let us invent some substitute of petroleum. Brain is being taxed. Again it is finished, again another. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). But they are so dull brain, they do not raise the question that we are making solution of one problem, another problem is ready. That brain they have not. So how long we shall go on solving the problems, another problem, another problem? Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). He does not know that nature will not allow me to live peacefully. So we bring problems after problems. That is material life. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī. Everything is there. You discuss only Bhagavad-gītā, you'll get so many subject matter to think and write. This is brain. We are solving one problem, another problem is there. Why this is happening? If there is any situation without any problem? That is brain.
Prabhupāda: Organize it and keep hundreds of books. They will live peacefully. But don't entangle in sinful activities. Then it will be all right. Such a nice place. The city residents cannot imagine. What a nonsense life—clubs, slaughterhouse, gambling places, drinking house. This is like hell. Try to save people from this hellish condition of life, without any knowledge, like animals. And nature therefore creates a wholesale slaughterhouse in war, to cut throat all—finished. Many millions and millions are finished. From 1914 to 1950, how many years?
Harikeśa: Thirty-six.
Prabhupāda: Within thirty-six years there were two big wars, slaughter. Especially Europe. Nature will create. Pestilence. Somewhere there is pestilence, somewhere there is war, somewhere there is scarcity of food. But you cannot indulge in sinful activities. Then you'll be killed. Then nature's law will act. You may defy, that's your business, but nature will act in her own way. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You cannot surpass.
Prabhupāda: Berkeley. Very horrible condition. Let them do whatever they like, you live apart from them. Live peacefully in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Be happy. Let these cats and dogs go to hell; what can be done? We are trying to educate them as far as possible, but if they do not take it, that is their business. We are doing our duty, going door to door, "Read these books. If you like, you can come and live with us." What we can do more? We do not make any condition, that if you live with us you have to fulfill. Of course, the condition is that you should not act sinfully. That is the first condition. But we never say that you have to pay so many dollars. Come. Whatever little food we have got, we shall share. So try to understand the importance of this movement. Kṛṣṇa is giving us. This is a first-class place. You can develop it into a Vaikuṇṭha. It is already Vaikuṇṭha, Kṛṣṇa is there. But develop it very nicely, peacefully live. Hundreds of miles away from the hellish cities. For little conveyance we can have bullock carts, when we have to get, transport. Very peaceful life. Introduce it and live peacefully. Am I right or wrong?
Prabhupāda: They will be more and more impressed. What is this city life? In Paris, simply to fulfill the necessities of life, a professional prostitute, so many. And people from all over the world, they come here for indulge in prostitute. From our childhood we know. What a civilization they have made. Spoiling the life. Then, after finish this life, you just become a cat, a dog, or a tree and stand up. And all other planets are vacant. Simply this planet is filled up, overpopulation. Kill them. Why not send there? So vacant land. (laughter) "That we cannot do." Then what is your scientific research? "Yes, we are trying. Wait millions of years." (laughter) These bluffing rascals. Don't be misled. Live peacefully here, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Hari-śauri: If you like, we can set up for the film now.
Prabhupāda: Now I have given the ideas, the philosophy, in the books. So it is your business to develop all over the world. You are very intelligent, Europeans and Americans. Give it a shape, for the world prosperity. Give it a practical.... It is practical. There is no difficulty. So much land. Very good fertile land in Africa, Australia, in America. All of them can be utilized for the happiness of the whole world. The portal(?) has come or not?
Prabhupāda: And he'll make at least ten rupees profit, minimum. In those days, 1925, in those days ten rupees means nowadays at least fifty rupees. So, and living very happy. Living humbly as a brāhmaṇa, he was having his pūjā, going to the Ganges, taking bath, husband and wife, in the morning, and the wife's business is to prepare and his business was to sell. So they'll make at least ten, fifteen rupees profit daily, very prosperous. Living peacefully, husband and wife. There are many such families. The... If wife is very good, then his home is very nice. They cannot be unhappy at any circumstances. Dampatyoḥ kalaho nāsti tatra śrīḥ svayam āgataḥ.(?) Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. When there is full agreement between husband and wife, cooperation, then the goddess of fortune comes there without application. You haven't got to ask goddess of fortune, "Please come and help me." She'll come automatically. This is Cāṇakya Paṇḍita's instruction.
Prabhupāda: Husband, wife and children?
Bhagavān: Two children. He's a builder and plumber.
Prabhupāda: Oh, you'll get help for construction work. He can teach others also. Live peacefully, happily, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, that's all.
Bhagavān: The garden crew, when they go out in the afternoon, they have kīrtana out to the fields with mṛdaṅga and karatālas where they work.
Prabhupāda: You have to arrange for little more water so you can... The pump is not in order. You can arrange for that.
Bhagavān: Your water supply has been all right?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: Because you do not train the boys to be qualified. You train them to become debauch. What can be done? You train them from brahmacārī, then they'll be responsible husbands. Both the girls and the boys should be trained up. Then they'll be responsible husband and wife and live peacefully. In their young days, if you give them freedom, they'll spoil. What can be done? Young, youthful days, if you give them full freedom, they'll be misguided and spoiled.
Translator: She's asking that since in these Western countries the families are so broken up and the women sometimes cannot find a qualified husband, what should she do?
Prabhupāda: You think they're united? They are all dogs barking, that's all. I said in the public. Some dogs are brought together and they are barking. That's all. Where is the unity? That is the fact. If you bring some dogs on this quarter and ask them, "Please live peacefully," will they do that? Why they cannot do it? You bring some dogs, neighborhood, and ask them, "Don't bark, live together peacefully." Will they be able to do that? What do you think?
Dayānanda: No, it is their nature.
Prabhupāda: So if you keep them dog there cannot be any peace. You make them human being actually. Then there will be peace. So they are keeping them as dogs. So they will go on barking. That's all. All these members of the United Nations, everyone is thinking in the bodily concept, "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Chinese." So how there will be unity? There cannot be unity. That is we are proposing. Don't think in the bodily concept of life. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati: (BG 18.54) that we are teaching. But they are thinking they have gone to the United Nations but they are keeping themselves as dogs. There cannot be any peace. They must go on barking against one another, that's all.
Prabhupāda: Enjoy life means... Even the industrialists, they go to the remote village and have a peaceful house there. That is the anxiety, how I shall live peacefully. The poorer class, the workers, they live in the city, and the capitalist, he goes to a different place.
Jñānagamya: Vṛndāvana, they came to Vṛndāvana, those Indian industrialists. They were so nervous, always like this, "Who is here? Who is also here? Should I talk to him about business." Very nervous.
Hari-śauri: But variety is the spice of life.
Prabhupāda: Oh, you are older than me.
Older man: Your blessings.
Prabhupāda: Live peacefully, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. It is for you, so many buildings. Let devotees come, live here peacefully, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, that's all. That I want.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a lot of devotees visiting Bombay.
Prabhupāda: How many you are housing?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: On a permanent basis about forty, but there are a few from different centers.
Prabhupāda: Where you have received this?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Ṛṣabhadeva, president of Spiritual Sky Products.
Prabhupāda: Our project is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Come here, live peacefully, keep your body fit, and work for yourself, you produce your own food, you produce your own cloth, don't be very much anxious for artificial necessities, and save time, and be advanced in spiritual life.
Interviewer (3): Some sort of religious epithet.
Prabhupāda: It is not exactly religious. You have taken by it because we misunderstand the meaning of religion. Religion generally understood as a kind of cult and faith. But in the Vedic literature, religion means the characteristic. Just like sugar is sweet, that is its religion. If sugar becomes pungent, that is not sugar's characteristic. Similarly, a human being must be God conscious. So that God consciousness is religion. Because in the human form of life one can understand what is God, and if he does not become, he remains an animal. Animal cannot understand.
Prabhupāda: The persons who are governing, they are in the darkness. So how, by change of government, there will be change of situation? I said in, where? That the United Nations is an assembly of dogs barking. Where did I say it? It was published in the paper. I said that if you keep them as dogs, and if you ask some dogs, "My dear dogs, please do not bark. Live peacefully," is it possible? The dog will bark. That is their business. So we are not enlightening them what is actually we are. We are keeping on this bodily conception. That is the dog's conception. And how there will be peace? There cannot be. Simply by agreement, by treaty, there can be any peaceful? No. Just like children. They agree, "Yes, we shall not fight." Next moment they'll fight. And again they will make agreement. This is going on.
Commissioner: What could we do, the devotees staying(?) here in Andhra Pradesh state?
Prabhupāda: You become guided by Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: So we have got big program. Any amount of money you bring to us, we shall spend it immediately. (pause) (kīrtana in background) (break) There is a logic, andha-paṅgu-nyāya. One man is blind. Another man is lame. Both are useless. When they combined together the lame man was taken by the blind man. So the lame man has got eyes, he was giving direction, "Go this way." So both their work was done. So I say that India is lame and America is blind. Let us combine together. Then we can give a great culture for the benefit of the whole human society. India has no money-lame. And they have got money but they have no knowledge. So let us combine together. This is logic. Andha-paṅgu-nyāya. So by this cooperation they have... When I was in India I published three parts of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam with great difficulty. And now since I have gone there I am publishing every month a book. So on account of their cooperation we are able to publish so many books and organize the sale all over the world. But it is true that this culture is very much welcome all over the world. That is happening. That is real execution of the mission of Kṛṣṇa. Not to keep Kṛṣṇa within the boundaries of certain areas. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā. Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). He's the father of all living entities. They should know it. We have got many other films also. How we are giving protection to the cows in different farms, how we are getting sumptuous milk. Two years ago there was an article in the Navabhārata Times in Delhi, big article, one full page, first page. And the heading was that New Vrindaban (Hindi). They gave this heading. And they gave all details how to use the land New Vrindaban in Virginia, we have got one thousand acre of land and they are utilizing it. How they are living peacefully.
Prabhupāda: If there is war they were not affected. And the soldiers would not bother the public. It is said during Mohammedan period the soldiers of one party will ask the cultivator, "Where the other soldiers gone?" They would say, "I have seen and they have gone this side." The cultivator is going on. The fighting is going on, but the cultivator is not affected. He is free. "You fight between themselves and whoever the victor is, I shall pay taxes. That's all. I have nothing to do with politics." This was... Between two parties of king or political, they may fight. Citizens, they have nothing to do who is the victorious. "You fight and one of you will become victorious. So you take taxes. I am concerned with paying tax. And tax, tax means whatever I have grown, you take one-fourth. You see this I have grown. Now you can take away one-fourth." No income tax, no sale tax, no this tax or that tax. And if some year, by chance, he has not grown anything—no tax. "I have not produced, I could not produce anything." Very simple. Soldiers, they were not paid. They were given land by the king. "You enjoy this land without any price. But when there is fight you have to come out." Fight is not going every day. It may take place after some years. So they are living peacefully.
Prabhupāda: Just see. They are living peacefully in a villa in Paris so happily that ah... Some, one gentleman came to see me "Swamiji, you are preaching against meat-eating, this cannot be done in this country, then we will starve." I said "No, you will never starve. You take this formula." (laughs) So they are thinking like that.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And the most dangerous point is that young men are taking part.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The future of the country.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That means it will continue. Young men they take anything very seriously. So this movement is threatening the—what is called?—the foundation of material civilization in the western countries. That's a fact. The foundation is threatened. Their whole foundation is this: meat-eating, illicit sex, gambling and intoxication. They have no other formula. Lord Zetland, when he was asking one of my godbrothers, that "Can you make me brāhmaṇa?"
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, why not? Everywhere. I myself when I go to the farm, I forget whether it is India, or Germany, or France. I forget. The land is there. Sarva-kāma-dughā. We get everything from that. I have several times said that why they make this distinction? This is France, this is India, this is... Everywhere is God's land. Why these rascals make division, I do not understand. Every land belongs to Kṛṣṇa, and you are sons of Kṛṣṇa. Let us live peacefully and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. All rascals, mūḍha. There is rain now and then fall in Europe?
Harikeśa: Yes, now it's very much.
Haṁsadūta: Now it's too late.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Prabhupāda: Let them come here, live peacefully, eat sumptuously, get all the other necessities of life and become Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is our... And we have no discrimination, Hindu, Muslim, Christian. No. We have got many Christians, many Jews, many Hindus, many Muslims, many Africans. They are taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Guest (5): Even in India, Muslims are taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: Well, Muslim India or same India, those who are intelligent, they are taking.
Guest (5): In this country also they have taken?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Some of the Pakistanis, they have taken. Of course, he is living in foreign country. One Dr. Ramjan (?), he is the professor in Portland. He is my disciple. I have given him the name, Rāmarañjana from Ramjan.
Mr. Malhotra: You will like this place, this Panchakini, (?) where we are going now. A wonderful peaceful place, very peaceful. The atmosphere... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...live peacefully, save time, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is my mission.
Mr. Malhotra: The requirement of every human being is...
Prabhupāda: Very simple.
Mr. Malhotra: Very simple. But all these, you know these added added, added.
Prabhupāda: That is asurika. To increase artificially necessities of life. And become entangled.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Farm project is very nice. Kṛṣṇa gives. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). This is economic problem solved. And brāhmaṇa, brain problem solved, and kṣatriya, protection problem solved, and śūdra, labor problem solved. Four things combined together, live peacefully, happily. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Introduce this farm project. In America there is enough scope. So much land is lying vacant. And if there are jungles, cut the jungles; use the wood. Just like our Virginia. Big, big jungles. You cut the woods, you get ground, open field, and utilize the logs for house-making. Food, shelter, everything there. In Africa, everywhere, the nature's way. Pūrṇam idam (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation). Everything, complete arrangement by Kṛṣṇa. We have to little work. Śarīra-yātrāpi ca te na prasiddhyed akarmaṇaḥ. If you sit idly, then you'll starve. Otherwise everything is there. You work little and get your all necessities. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. That one person, God, He's supplying everyone whatever necessities. You have to simply work little. That is material world. In the material world you have to work. And in the spiritual world there is no question, work.
Prabhupāda: You study your body. And if the same machine, you producing a machine like that, automatically coming out, one thing, male machine, one female machine, and they'll bring another machine. Where is that? And here God has made such a nice machine. He says, bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni (BG 18.61). That is also not made by God. It is made by God's agent, māyā. Now, see how God is intelligent. God's servant māyā, God says, "Give him a machine like that." Immediately she gives, supplies. Clearly says, bhrāmayan sar... "He wants to still travel in this material world, bhrāmayan. He wants to go there. Then all right, give him a machine." He's so kind. He's sitting within your heart. You want to do something. And He's so kind, because you are son, beloved, He says, "These are not required. Better come back. Live peacefully." You'll not hear. "No. I..." Just like naughty child. "All right, Māyā, give him. Give him." This is meaning. Hm? What is that? Read it.
Prabhupāda: No, we... "It is voluntary. In our society we find so many brahmacārīs, so many gṛhasthas. And if you cannot stop this itching sensation, all right, marry one girl and live peacefully like a gentle... What is this nonsense, every three weeks divorce? We are not so rascal. If we accept one girl as my wife, I take full responsibility. Because I require a girl or woman, so this woman, that one... We are not so rascal that at home I have got woman, I am searching after another woman, another naked woman. We are not so madman. The sex pleasure is there at home, and I am seeking after sex pleasure in here, here, in the club, in the... What is that? Is that vagina is different? You are so fool. You require vagina; take one vagina. Be satisfied. And lick it. Why you are going here and there, here and there, here and there? Even old man is going to the nightclub to lick another vagina. Is that civilization? You are proud of your civilization."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (1): That I am doing at home.
Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say that we are inviting, people may come, live peacefully, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is an attempt. Otherwise, we could have built some apartment house... (break)...the J.P.?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Prakash Narayan.
Prabhupāda: Jaya Prakash Narayan. Even in old days they were dealing with this politics. What they will do good to the people? But they do not know. This is disease. They do not study the whole history of the world. What Gandhi has done? What Hitler has done? What Napoleon has done? And what they will do? But they are applauded. "He is promising within one year poverty will be driven away." All false propaganda. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). Vimūḍhātmā. Rascals. They are promising so many things. They will never be able to do anything. And they are applauded.
Prabhupāda: They were happily living by covering their one cloth. Still, they were living peacefully. They were so poverty-stricken. Rāja Hariścandra lost everything, but because there was peace between husband and..., they were living. Viśvāmitra saw separately. There are so many instances. That is lost now, to live peacefully, husband and wife. Throughout the whole world became sour. And still in India, "Eh, I have no other..." There is stock of grain. So how many people have got stock of grain nowadays? Dhānyaṁ yatra susañcitam. (laughs) Nobody.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Even the government does not have a stock of grain.
Prabhupāda: What is this nonsense government? A combination of rascals and fools, that's all. Demon-cracy. Not democracy but demon-cracy.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Demon-crazy.
| Page Title: | Live peacefully (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 21 of Sep, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=84, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 84 |