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Liberated persons (Conversations)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: Well, the orthodox Jews have a very heavy, complicated, moment by moment ritual daily existence in that, for that same purpose. It was to keep them conscious of their religious nature. And that has maintained a small group of Jews over the centuries as an integral unit, but has tended to disappear in the later generations now simply because modern life does not allow that much Kṛṣṇa consciousness or Jewish consciousness or religious consciousness and attention, act by act throughout the day. So my question is how far can total Kṛṣṇa devotion, act by act all day, spread? How many people can that encompass in a place like America? Or are you intending only to get a few devotees, like several hundred or a thousand who will be solid and permanent.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is my program. Because Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not possible for everyone. Because in the Bhagavad-gītā we learn, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). After many, many births one can come to this. So it is not possible that a mass of people, a large quantity of people will be able to grasp it. You see? Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). Another place it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3). After many thousands of men, one may be interested how to liberate himself. And out of many such liberated persons, one may understand what is Kṛṣṇa. So understanding of Kṛṣṇa is not very easy thing. But Lord Caitanya is so munificent that He has given us a, I mean to say, easy process. (indistinct) Otherwise Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not easy. Because Kṛṣṇa is the last word of Absolute Truth. Generally, people are just like animals. Out of many such persons, one becomes interested in the scriptures. And out of many such persons, if they're attracted to the scriptures, they're attracted to the ritualistic ceremony for improving their economic condition. You see?

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discussion with Indians -- January 18, 1971, Allahabad:

Guest (1): Because He has a body, He has taken birth from Devaki. And incorporeal does not...

Prabhupāda: Therefore the Kṛṣṇa says that one has to understand that what is Kṛṣṇa's birth. Janma karma me divyam yo jānāti tattvataḥ. So that tattvataḥ is not yo. Anyone who knows Kṛṣṇa actually, he becomes immediately liberated. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). Anyone simply who understands Kṛṣṇa, he becomes immediately liberated. If you understood Kṛṣṇa correctly, then you are liberated person. You have nothing to ask from me.

Guest (2): It is what...

Prabhupāda: No, that's all. Then you are liberated person. You have nothing to ask from me. I am for those who are conditioned, but you are liberated, so you have nothing to ask from me.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi conversation continues for some sentences.) Who is practicing this? Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). He cannot be called a brāhmaṇa unless he acts according to his guṇa. If he's acting in differently, he should be... (break) ...utilized by the liberated person, still we can use it, provided we stop this process of animal killing. Then it will be very easier. This medicine... The doors will be... Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). Therefore whoever comes to us to become our student, our first proposition is that "You should give up these four principles, illicit sex, animal-eating, gambling and intoxication, up to drinking tea, coffee, cigarette." This is our condition. So the more you practice to these four prohibitive regulations, then you realize. Śrotramāno 'bhirāmāt. It will be very pleasing to the ear and to the mind. And unless anything is very pleasing, you cannot continue. Artificially, you can chant for few minutes. But if it becomes pleasing to you, then you can chant twenty-four hours, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ. Caitanya Mahāprabhu advised, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ.

tṛṇād api sunīcena
taror api sahiṣṇunā
amāninā mānadena
kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ
(CC Adi 17.31)

So this is the only remedy, Hare Kṛṣṇa

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 6, 1974, Bombay:

Girirāja: "In these western countries when someone sees the cover of a book like Kṛṣṇa, he immediately asks, 'Who is Kṛṣṇa? Who is the girl with Kṛṣṇa?' " (break)

Prabhupāda: ...upagīyamānāt. Uttama-śloka-guṇānuvādā. Uttama-śloka-guṇānuvādāt. Uttama-śloka is Kṛṣṇa, who is worshiped by selected verses. So uttama-śloka-guṇānuvādā is executed by nivṛtta-tarsaiḥ. Nivṛtta-tarsaiḥ. Nivṛtti means ceasing; tṛṣṇa means material desires. Nivṛtti-tarṣair upagīyamānād. So this uttamaśloka-guṇanuvada, praising the Supreme, uttamaśloka, is done by the nivṛtta-tarsaiḥ. Nivṛtta-tarsaiḥ means one who has ceased material desires. He can chant. He can glorify. But it is not for ordinary mundane people. Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād bhavauṣādhi chrotra-mano 'bhirāmāt (SB 10.1.4). And this chanting is bhavauṣādhi. There is some... (break) ...of holy name or glorifying the Lord is the medicine for this material disease. Material disease means repetition of birth and death. To stop this repetition of birth and death, this is the only remedy. And this is used by liberated persons. So such a nice thing, who can refrain from it? Vinā paśughnāt: (SB 10.1.4) unless one is animal killer, one cannot cease from this business. Therefore animal killing is so sinful.

nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād
bhavauṣādhi chrotra-mano 'bhirāmāt
ka uttama-śloka-guṇānuvādāt
(pumān) virajyeta vinā paśughnāt
(SB 10.1.4)

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1976, Melbourne:

Guru-kṛpā: That is their idea. They have created their own way to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that idea is there. They are thinking of their own way. That is bad. We have got so much, so many literatures. They are printing their own literature and.... That is disturbing, yes. What he'll prepare? He's not a liberated person. He's thinking, somebody said, that "I'll give my interpretation on Bhāgavata." If these things are going, they are.... It is against our principles. (break)

Guru-kṛpā: You know how to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore I follow. I don't even know what Kṛṣṇa is. I'm just trying to follow. Therefore that will be successful.

Prabhupāda: That is my preaching. What Kṛṣṇa said, you say as it is. Don't change. How you can give interpretation? And if he thinks that he can give another interpretation, what is this nonsense? Then he's not following guru or Kṛṣṇa, both. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya (CC Madhya 19.151). One has to receive the mercy of guru and Kṛṣṇa. Through guru, Kṛṣṇa's mercy.

Guru-kṛpā: If they go on like this, can this be considered sampradāya-vihīna ye mantras te viphalaṁ mataḥ? That is, their mantra is not so effective if people are surrendering to Kṛṣṇa. Just like milk touched with the lips.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Scheverman: I see. That's a basic principle of your way of life, is not eating any meat, any flesh.

Prabhupāda: The verse..., I think there is no Bhāgavata here. The Second Canto, I think, it is said,

nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād
bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt
ka uttamaśloka guṇānuvādāt
pumān virajyeta vinā paśu-ghnāt
(SB 10.1.4)

The glorification of the Lord is done by the liberated persons. It is so nice, glorification of the Lord. So who can refrain from the glorification of the Lord unless he is animal killer? It is said there.

Kern: The origin of the group, where...? Who was the original founder, Your Excellency? The original founder of the group?

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: How you feel? You are a soul! The body feels, you do not feel. Now we are talking about the philosophy.

Prabhupāda: I am not a liberated person.

Dr. Patel: You are liberated soul, we are following you. There are many others, sir otherwise we would not have come behind you. So sir, that is not right. And I think I have got a right to prevail upon you. Have I or have I not? Tell me that, or I'll run away back again. (break) ...its not full. Who knows? We may be liberated in past birth. That is how I come.

Prabhupāda: That's fine. That's your process. You are trying to do something for the disease.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: This is the (indistinct). The political, socio-political... I don't know the sort of...

Prabhupāda: Our point is that if you do not get knowledge from liberated person, that knowledge is useless. That is cheating. (break) It is very easy. Just like a child. If he takes your direction, he liberated, and if he acts according to his childish nature, then he's conditioned. If you take Kṛṣṇa's instruction, then you are liberated. If you manufacture your own idea, then you are conditioned. Two things. Child is not actually liberated. He is child. But because he takes blindly the direction of the father, he's liberated. That is mām eva ye prapadyante. Anyone who has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa and strictly follows what Kṛṣṇa says, then he is liberated. Otherwise not. If he manufactures idea, then he's conditioned.

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: Yes. He's saying that by reducing these activities he wants to get mokṣa.

Prabhupāda: So, our point is that if he was not on the platform of mokṣa, liberation, why did he waste his time by spoiling himself and for spoiling others? Now he has come to his senses, it is good, but it is to be understood that he simply spoiled his time and spoiled others' career by misleading them. Thus, without being liberated, nobody can guide anyone. That is useless. That is andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). If you have no eyes, then how can you lead others? If you are blind and they are blind, then what is the use of becoming their leaders? Actually all the so-called leaders and scholars, they are blind themselves and they have become big, big leader. That is the misfortune of the present life. And, therefore, our proposition is you take direction from Kṛṣṇa and His representative. That's all. That will help you. Try to understand this point. Our system, paramparā system, is that I am just like disciple of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī. I don't say that I am liberated. I am conditioned. But because I am following the instruction of Bhaktisiddhānta, I'm liberated. This is the distinction between conditioned and liberated. When one is under the direction of a liberated person... The same thing: Electricity. The copper is not electricity, but when it is charged with electricity, if it is touched, that is electricity. And, similarly, this paramparā system, the electricity is going. If you cut the paramparā system, then there is no electricity. Therefore it is stressed so much. Sa kāleneha mahatā yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. The electricity is lost. These people, they do not know. Now at the fag end of life, they are thinking, if intelligent person, that "What I have done actually?" If one has sense, he should come to this understanding. By cutting some, what is that? Dead trees? The civil disobedience began by cutting dead trees. Is it not? Vinoda Bhave, he began his leadership forty years ago by cutting... Gandhi also, civil disobedience. So this kind of leadership might have been little enthusiasm for the time being, but actually what people gain by that, such leadership?

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Indian lady (2): Mahatma Gandhi took guidance... Of course, he also made lots of mistakes, but he did take guidance...

Prabhupāda: Everyone must make mistake because a conditioned soul are liable to four defects. One of them is to commit mistake. One of them is to become illusioned. One of them, he is a cheater. And one of them, his senses are imperfect. So every conditioned soul who has got this material body, he is defective in these four things. Therefore he has to take knowledge from a person who has no defects. Then his knowledge will be perfect. Just like a small child, he is defective, but he receives the knowledge from the father: "This is called pencil." A child does not know what it is, but the father says, "My dear child, it is pencil." And if he says, "It is pencil," then it is correct, although he's a child, because he has received the knowledge from the person who knows it. Similarly, our principle is—that is Vedic principle-evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). The knowledge has to be taken from the superior, liberated person.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: ...parāyanaḥ sudurlabhaḥ praśāntātmā koṭiṣv api mahā-mune. "O great sage, out of many millions of materially liberated people who are free from ignorance, and out of many millions of siddhas who have merely attained perfection, there's hardly one pure devotee of Nārāyaṇa. Only such a devotee is actually completely satisfied and peaceful."

Prabhupāda: This is devotee. It is not so easy. But we are giving chance to everyone to come to that position. This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But otherwise it is very, very... Muktānām. It begins from the mukta, liberated. Liberated means no more material anxiety.

Page Title:Liberated persons (Conversations)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Kanupriya
Created:06 of Mar, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=11, Let=0
No. of Quotes:11