Less than (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"less than" |"lesser than"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: "less* than" not "not less than" not "no less than"

1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So similarly, there is a ghāṭa which is called Daśāśvamedha Ghāṭa at Prayag. He instructed about the science of devotional service to Rūpa Gosvāmī.

Hayagrīva: Now how old is Rūpa Goswami? Is he an old man?

Prabhupāda: Oh, he was old enough. He was not less than fifty years at that time.

Hayagrīva: I see. All right. Anything else in the second scene, fourth act?

Prabhupāda: That is it... And then He came back to Benares.

Hayagrīva: Who?

Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Hayagrīva: I thought He stayed in Jagannātha... He's not now... He left...

Prabhupāda: No, from Jagannātha Purī He went to Vṛndāvana. From Vṛndāvana while coming down again He first of all came to Prayag. There He taught Rūpa Gosvāmī. Then when He still came down He came to Benares. At Benares He remained for two months. More than two months. And for two months continually He instructed Sanātana Gosvāmī about devotional service. That instruction you'll find in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya. I've written that Teachings of Lord Caitanya?

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk Before Class -- November 29, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: And typewriter, whose?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The typewriter was mine. I'd just... Puruṣottama had just brought it from New York from my parents to me. So less than a week and they both are gone.

Prabhupāda: New typewriter?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, it was practically new. It was a very good typewriter.

Prabhupāda: What is the maker?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Olivetti. It's the portable.

Prabhupāda: Olivetti portable.

Interview with LA Times Reporter About Moon Trip -- December 26, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: The first thing is that with this body you, neither you can land there nor interfere with their business. The first thing is. The scientists say that the temperature in moon planet is two hundred degree less than zero. Is it not?

Reporter: I don't know.

Prabhupāda: Howard?

Hayagrīva: It's very cold.

Prabhupāda: Very cold. So even taking the scientific statement, how you can live there if it is two hundred degree below the zero degree?

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 11, 1969, New York:

Prabhupāda: Lotus is blessing. And that disc and club is for punishing. Viṣṇu has to see two ways because He's the Lord. So, as it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). Just like the state. State is meant for punishing the criminals and giving protection to the law-abiding citizen. Wherefrom this idea is taken? It is taken from Viṣṇu. Everything. Because He is the supreme maintainer. So everything is required for maintaining. So this gada, the club, and the disc is for punishing the disobedient, the demons, or those who are harassing devotees. To punish them the Viṣṇu-cakra is there. Just like Mahārāja Ambarīṣa, he was harassed by Durvāsā Muni, and Viṣṇu-cakra punished him sufficiently. Mahārāja Durvāsā... Mahārāja Ambarīṣa was a great king, but a great devotee at the same time. Because he was kṣatriya and householder, Durvāsā Muni, he was envious. Durvāsā Muni was brāhmaṇa and a great yogi. So he could not tolerate that a householder king... King is supposed to be dealing in politics, economics. Therefore, according to social position, he is lesser than the brāhmaṇa because they are simply engaged in the matter of transcendental advancement of life.

Room Conversation -- April 27, 1969, Boston:

Satsvarūpa: Three hundred a month. But we can do it as long as... Presently, Patita-pāvana is working and so am I, and sometimes the gopīs get some money. So we wouldn't have any problem as long as Patita-pāvana would continue to work.

Prabhupāda: All right, Kṛṣṇa will solve the problems. But the space is not lesser than this temple?

Satsvarūpa: Well, the temple room is maybe even smaller than the present temple room, but then there's another large, very large room for a kitchen and then another space where bunks could be for sleeping. So there's actually three different spaces. The thing is that the main temple hall is not too large.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Śāstra-vākya-pramāṇa. And it should be known through the spiritual master. Just like nowadays Bhagavad-gītā is being interpreted in so many foolish ways because they do not accept explanation from the authority. They become themselves authorities. Therefore misused. That is not explanation. Somebody is explaining that Kurukṣetra means this body, pañca-pāṇḍava means the senses. These are all nonsense. You have to accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is. When you cannot understand, you should get it explained by your spiritual master. Therefore one has to accept a spiritual master to understand. Tad-vijnanārtham. In order to understand that transcendental science one must approach a bona fide spiritual master. That is injunction. So here it is said that kānyakubje dvijaḥ. Dvijaḥ means he was offered the sacred thread. That means he was born in a brāhmaṇa family. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ. Everyone is born a śūdra, a foolish. Sudra means a foolish man who simply laments. That is the real meaning of śūdra. Anyone who has no intelligence, he is śūdra. We also generally say, gadāh, less intelligent. So brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, they are called higher caste. According to their... Brāhmaṇa, first-class because his intelligence is first-class. Kṣatriya, his intelligence is second-class. Vaiśya, his intelligence is third-class. And śūdra means fourth-class. And less than śūdra, they are called pañcama, caṇḍāla. They are accepted as animals, those who are less than śūdras.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Television Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Interviewer: But before... When you came here... Now you came here in the middle sixties, less than a decade ago. What was it? This is what I'm trying to find out from you. What was the motivating force behind your coming to the United States?

Prabhupāda: That is already explained. That is already explained. Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted that this propaganda should be made all over the world and they will accept. So my Guru Mahārāja said that "You go and try to do this." So I came with this purpose. And it is happening.

Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Interviewer: But before, when you came here... Now you came here in the middle '60s, less than a decade ago. What, what was it—this is why I'm trying to find out from you. What was the motivating force behind your coming to the United States?

Prabhupāda: That is already explained. That is already explained. Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted that this propaganda should be made all over the world. And they will accept. So my Guru Maharaja said that "You go and try to do this," so I came with this purpose, and it is happening.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Less than! Cow is supporting the whole society with milk. Every morning, without milk, we cannot live. The child, without milk, cannot live. She should be treated as mother. And they are being sent to the slaughterhouse. And still, they are thinking of becoming free from sinful life. Can anyone kill his own mother? "Oh, mother is old and useless. Let her be killed. Burden." Is that very gratitude for the mother by the son?

Revatīnandana: They do that. As soon as the cow is too old to give milk, immediately slaughterhouse. I was talking to one man, he was a cowherdsman here in England. He said he couldn't stand it. He said a nice cow, she would get old, she couldn't give milk anymore, immediately slaughterhouse. Just like that. The most disgusting thing.

Room Conversation -- August 25, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: ...not sentimental. There is no religion, and still, they are professing, "I profess this religion," Where is your religion? If actually there was religion in the human society, why there are so many problems? There should not have been so many problems. The problems are in the animal society. Why there should be problem in human society? Because they have given up the real principles. They are simply animals. Therefore there are so many problems. Actually there is no problem. Even they are not animal. Less than animal. In animal society there is no problem. There is problem, but not so acute. They are free. Just like the ducks, the pigeons, they fly from one country to another. They have no problem of immigration department, passport, or visa. They have no problem. These rascals should understand that they have created problem on account of their animalistic, less than animalistic civilization.

Room Conversation -- August 25, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Just see. If you say that they are animal civilization, that is a great credit for them. It is less than animal civilization. Write all this in papers and everything, all openly. Challenge strongly. First of all, realize, then challenge. (break) Dharmeṇa hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. That is the special distinction, that their life, human life must be based on dharma, religion. They have rejected dharma. That is another type of frustration because the so-called leaders of religion, they could not give anything. They also exploited people under religious sentiment. Actually they could not make people religious. They did not know what is religion. And therefore people become, revolted: "What is this nonsense? They are living at our expenditure." We are real religious people. We are enlightening people about religion, life, about God.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: So was this material advancement less than this? And this is description of five thousand years ago. So here in Tokyo Kobe, in Japan there is so much industrials. We find the common man, 99% they are living on matchboxes. That's all. How many men are living in this nice apartment? The common man is living in matchbox. So this is not material advancement. A few people exploiting them in their factory. They are working and they are living in this nice building. But the common man is living in matchbox houses. We traveled these three hundred miles, or four hundred miles. We saw simply 99% matchboxes. What do you think, Bhānu? Is it not?

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1972, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Helium gas. So that helium gas has entered within the balloon and it is floating. (laughter) So if the helium gas can float, cannot God float? If helium gas has so much power, God is less than helium gas or He is more than helium gas? So what is the difficulty to understand? God says, "I enter." So similarly, the helium gas enters and it makes possible that it floats. So what is the difficulty to understand? I see in my eyes. So He can become big helium gas. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya: (BG 7.8) "I am the taste of the water." Water is important. We are drinking water for the taste. That taste is Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, if you explain this law of gravitation, which we have discovered, is Kṛṣṇa, prove it by your scientific knowledge, that will be your service. Actually that is a fact. That is the fact. But you have to explain, just like I have given you this example. This is scientific.

Conversation with the GBC -- May 25, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Watchtower. They have complained(?). So we have nothing to (indistinct) them. The world is degrading to the lowest status, even less than animal. The animal also do not support homosex. They have never sex life between male to male. They are less than animal. People are becoming less than animal. This is all due to godlessness. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā (SB 5.18.12), godless civilization cannot have any good qualities. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā mano rathena asato dhāvato... They simply go to the untruth by mental speculation. (end)

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Divided? They are also already divided. But the culture diminished. Because the center of culture was India, Delhi. So as the power diminished, the maintenance of the culture diminished, and by contact with other types of aboriginal, they learned eating meat and gradually degraded. And they discovered different kinds of religion because... Just like at the present moment Christians are protesting why there should not be abortion. So they wanted to degraded. So the Indian culture did not allow, so the separate type of religion came out. This is the (indistinct). They wanted, "Why there should not be meat-eating?" But Indian culture would not allow, so they become Mohammedans, they become Christians, like this. Even in India all the..., what are these Mohammedans? The Mohammedans, they are lower class men, less than śūdra. But Hindus, higher class, they would not touch it.

Morning Walk -- May 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No. (pause, japa) You and Dr. Rao just make a combination, world-touring. I shall give you all expenditure. And go to the universities, scientists, and talk with them. Our kīrtana party also will go. We challenge all scientists, "Come on." We shall pay all expenditure. Ask Dr. Rao to come and join. Just like in Calcutta University, all the students... No, one leader student, he came. He talked about economic development, and he said that "Our students did not derive any faith by your theological statement." So I told them that "Because you are all rascals, therefore you could not." I told them freely. Because in the Bhagavad-gītā... Because they are student of Sanskrit. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). "So you are amongst these. You are duṣkṛtinas, sinful, lowest of the mankind, and the university is responsible for creating such rascals." So professors clapped and later on they said, "Swamiji, you have rightly said." All the professors said. And so far economic question is concerned, the birds, beasts, animals, they have no economic concern. Why you have got? You are less than bird and beast, you have created this economic problem.

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: What is this culture? A human being is killing so many animals, innocent animals, is that culture? They are less than animals. Who kills? The tiger kills, ferocious. A human being killing innocent animals... In Christian religion, therefore: "Thou shall not kill." But they are killing only. Where is the culture? Killing culture. That is not culture. What do you think?

David Wynne: It must be so. Yes.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Lord Brockway: ...when the number of knights were much less than they are today.

Prabhupāda: I see.

Lord Brockway: But there'll be too many today to be associates.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Now it has come to another platform. So anyway, the knights, they are respectable gentlemen of the society, leading men of the society. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for enlightening people to the right standard of understanding the goal of life. Because after this life, after this body is annihilated, we do not know what kind of body we are getting next. We must prepare. Just like you are elevated to the position of lordship. So you had to prepare yourself. Not that this lordship is offered to anyone and everyone. One who is qualified, he is offered this position. Similarly, we should know how we are becoming qualified for the next life.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Therefore, kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. Correct? In this age of Kali, everyone is to be accepted as śūdra. No brāhmaṇa, no kṣatriya, no vaiśya. All śūdra, or less than śūdra.

Reporter: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Pañcavān.(?) This is the position. So at the present moment, to reform that, you cannot take them to the original position. It is not possible, it is Kali-yuga. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10). They are very slow, they don't accept the right path... Just like God is here, Kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). But they're creating their own God. Even big, big leaders they are saying, "Eh, Kṛṣṇa, why Kṛṣṇa should be accepted?" Even big, big leaders, they do not believe that Kṛṣṇa was there on this planet, there was Kurukṣetra battle. You know better than me.

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ah?

Karandhara: Either they accept our evidence or...

Prabhupāda: No, therefore they are fools. That is a fact. Any child can understand that... And even they're less than a child. If I say there is something, therefore there is consciousness, any boy can understand. But they cannot understand. Less than a boy.

Karandhara: They say there's no proof that that something...

Prabhupāda: That is the proof. That is the proof.

Devotee (2): Yes, their own law of conservation.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Yaśomatīnandana: Is he first allowed...?

Prabhupāda: Less than the atom. Smaller than the atom.

Yaśomatīnandana: Is he allowed to associate with Kṛṣṇa in the beginning?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yaśomatīnandana: As jīva, as jīva is...

Prabhupāda: He's always with Kṛṣṇa. Simply he has forgotten. Have you not been with Kṛṣṇa? We are standing on this sand. The sand is Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's energy. We are standing by the water. This is Kṛṣṇa's energy. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). Don't you read that? So is it different from Kṛṣṇa?

Morning Walk -- December 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, because there is need, therefore you have done it. There is necessity.

Karandhara: Well, some of them say, because people are generally ignorant, therefore we need this idea of God.

Prabhupāda: But you are less than ignorant. You are less than ignorant. You are less than rascal. If I call you a rascal, then I give you some honor.

Karandhara: Lenin said that God is just opiate of the people, just to keep them intoxicated.

Morning Walk -- December 31, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Bahulāśva: It will be worth less than a penny when it is made out of aluminium.

Prabhupāda: Why not cement? (laughter) Because by law everything will be acceptable. Make it cement.

Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what can we do to curb down these rascals?

Prabhupāda: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Bahulāśva: That will curb them down.

Morning Walk -- December 31, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's all. They do not know that for sense gratification, enough facility is there in the animal kingdom. So if you want to give facility for sense gratification, does it mean that you want to become more than or less than animal? Not more than.

Viṣṇujana: They want dog's life. They think dog's life is good life. They have to work hard and the dog stays at home all day and enjoys in their nice big house. So they think, "I would be better to be the dog."

Prabhupāda: So they have become. But when he becomes street dog? That means he has to depend on good master. Big apartment for dog means he belongs to the master. So he has to find out a good master. But if he fails to find out a good master, then he's street dog. Dog's life is good, provided he gets a good master. So therefore we have decided to become dog of Kṛṣṇa, (laughter) the best master. And the master says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ: (BG 18.66) "I will give you protection." So why not become dog of Kṛṣṇa?

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then you are less intelligent than the animals. That is my argument. They are lower animals. They are begetting at one time one dozen children. They are not bothering. Why you are bothering? That means that you are less than the animals. Because you have got so much anxiety, "Why population increasing?" But they are not bothering. So you are less than animals.

Guest (1): No, no, my question is different.

Prabhupāda: That is my answer. Why you are bothering the population increasing? Why you are bothering?

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Some, there is some... There is some reason. But they have no such thing. So therefore they are advanced. They have no such anxiety. You are less than animal.

Guest (1): No, that's right Swamiji, but what my question is...

Prabhupāda: That is... First answer is this, that you are bothered for increased population, but the animals are not. Therefore they are more advanced than you. They know that there is no botheration. Because in the Vedic injunction it is said, eko yo bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. Now, there are millions of elephants in Africa. Who is feeding them? Who is feeding them? They eat at one time one mound. Where the food is coming from? Why you are bothered? You'll take only one chaṭāka. That means you are godless. You do not know who is supplying your food. You are less than animal. That is my answer.

Morning Walk -- February 22, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: I don't know why they... So they are all śūdras, these, these daityas.

Prabhupāda: Not śūdras. They are less than śūdras.

Dr. Patel: Actually, they are the relatives of...

Prabhupāda: Mleccha. They have been described in the Bhāgavata: mlecchā rājanya-rūpiṇaḥ. Mlecchas, they will assume as kṣatriya government. Mlecchā rājanya-rūpiṇaḥ. Bhakṣayiṣyanti prajās te mlecchā rājanya-rūpiṇaḥ.

Dr. Patel: These fellows created such a horrible state. They actually broke down the temple.

Morning Walk -- February 22, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Otherwise how the Hindus dared to demolish our temple?

Indian Man (5): Yes. That is the main thing.

Prabhupāda: They are less than Muslims.

Dr. Patel: (Hindi for few sentences) This is, I tell you. That was a sort of a... We did not know how to act. (two people talking at once) This is how... Some people didn't... Some section of the people. Now Sonara, Sonara... So... They would not have earned. Otherwise they would not have touched anything. (Hindi) I told the people that did not know. They did it unaware. And we got a shock when we learned next morning that temple was demolished. Not only the pillars were cut by gas...

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is philosophy. Darśana. Darśana means search out what is the ultimate. Jñānī ca bharatarṣabha (BG 7.16). Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtino 'rjuna, ārto 'rthārthī jñānī ca bharatarṣabha, arto 'rthārthī jijñāsur jñānī ca bharatarṣabha. These are philosophers. Even the ārtaḥ, even a distressed person, he is praying to the Supreme Authority, "My God, I am very much hungry. Kindly give me my daily bread." He's also philosopher, because he's searching out the Absolute Truth. He's philosopher. Not this Freud rascal, elaborating how to have sex life. So this kind of philosopher, they... What is called? In Bengali: vane haye śṛgāla rājā.(?) "In the jungle a jackal becomes a king." So because western people, they have no... They're all less than śūdras. So a Freud has become a philosopher. Vane haye śṛgāla rājā. "In the jungle, the jackal has become a king." That's all. What is knowledge there? It is that... The whole western world is going on for industry, for making money, eat, drink, be merry, wine and women. That's... They're all less than śūdras and caṇḍālas.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, the thing is that actually, at the present moment, they are śūdras or less than śūdras. They are not human beings. The whole population of the world. It doesn't matter whether it is western or eastern. That is the position. So unless they are trained up, so the society's already in chaos, and it will go on still more in chaos, chaos. It will be hell. How people will live? And these rascals are being elected as government men, and they're only making budget how to tax. So one side, there is no rain; one side, there is no rice, especially in India; and one side, heavy tax. So they'll be all confused. They have already become confused. So in the confusion state it will be very difficult to make them Kṛṣṇa conscious. Therefore preliminary help should be given.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Therefore sleeping is my only business. Sleeping means for the weak. And for the strong, perspiration. This is the sign. When a man sleeps too much, he's weak in his health. And the strong man will perspire. These are very... Balera ghāma, and the durbalera ghuma. Ghāma and ghuma. Ghuma means sleeping, and ghāma means perspiration. (break) ...principle. And human beings means trained up under principle. That is the difference between animal. The animals, they cannot take up any training. But the human being, this human form of body is meant for taking training. So if they are not properly trained up, they remain animals and the whole society in chaos and confusion. That's all. (break) ...moment, the human society's so degraded that even we are walking, this is also risky. This is also... Gradually, it is becoming. Just like in our New York... That Berkeley? Berkeley? No. Brooklyn. It is difficult to walk due to the Negroes. They immediately: "Whatever you have got, give me." There are so many incidents. In such city as New York there is always danger like that. If somebody kills you, nobody will take care of you. The human society has become... And in India still, they are not so degraded. You see. Even at night you can safely walk on the street. But in Europe, America, you cannot with confidence walk alone in the big, big streets. So human being has become so degraded. Less than animals.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Devotee: Yes I read it. The qualities of a brāhmaṇa is given, along with the qualities of all the other varṇas.

Prabhupāda: We have..., taking sacred thread has qualities less than śūdra. Camaras, cobblers. Camara means expert in skin. I am white, I am black, I am this, I am that. That is camara. Expert in skin. (break) People are very receptive?

Devotee: Yes, especially Gujarati and Marwari communities.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Devotee: The south Indians, they are not so receptive. (break)

Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No. There is no question of excitement. When you put a question, I shall answer it from the śāstras. Just like it is, it is any child can understand. If I ask a child, "What is this?" "Hand." "What is this?" "Head." "What is this?" "Leg." Does he say, "Body"? So you are speaking less than a child. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: Hm. That is what I am. That is what I am. That is what I am.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Any child, if you ask him, "My dear child, what is this?" He'll say, "It is hand." "What is this?" "It is head." "What is this?" "Leg." Does he say, "All body"? You are speaking like that.

Dr. Patel: Like... How shall I speak? Shall I beat your body?

Prabhupāda: No, no. (laughter) Don't speak.

Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no. (laughter) Don't speak.

Dr. Patel: Where is the right way?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Any gentleman says... It is right? If I ask a child, "What is this?" What he'll say? "It is hand." Will he say, "It is head"? Then? You are speaking like less than a child.

Dr. Patel: That is what I am.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, Mr. Sar!

Dr. Patel: No, he will not say anything because he's a baniya (?). He'll reserve his opinion.

Guest (4) (Indian man): To answer the scripture... (break)

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, that does not mean... There are ghosts. Ghost means subtle life. It is not gross. So people know and has got some idea of the ghost, but they have no descriptive idea. Here is a descriptive idea. That is śāstra. Just like less than the śūdras, it is called pañcamas. How many pañcamas are there, that is described in the Bhāgavata. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanaḥ khasādayaḥ (SB 2.4.18). That is śāstra. Gives full explanation, full knowledge. Śāstra cakṣuṣā. We have to accept through the śāstra. Not that "Because I have not seen, therefore it is false." No. Vyāsadeva has no business to tell you something false. Otherwise he would not have been accepted as the supreme guru by all the sampradāyas. You cannot defy Vyāsadeva.

Morning Walk -- April 29, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: No, he has sold some, but still lying in the store. He published only one thousand copies. Our Nectar of Devotion, the translation of the same book, is selling like hotcakes. Yes. In the university, Temple University, they have made a textbook. And everywhere they like it, Nectar of Devotion. I think... What is our edition at the present moment? Fourth or Fifth edition. And we don't publish less than ten thousand copies. So we have to depend on Kṛṣṇa sincerely. Serve Him, everything, what is required, that will come, some way or other. That is miracle. Why should we try to cheat others, that "I can manufacture gold"? This rascal, if he can manufacture gold, then why he is doing himself business? That is simply jugglery. Even the magicians, they can do. They create so much money. But he is a poor man. Why he remains poor? And everyone thinks of us, that we have got unlimited wealth. You know that?

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Outcaste? There are four castes only.

Swiss Man (1): But there are the outcastes...

Yogeśvara: Do you mean the untouchables?

Prabhupāda: Outcaste means those who are less than the śūdras. They are called pañcamas. These are four divisions: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. Śūdra means laborer class but they are also obedient to the other three classes. And less than that, they have been described as caṇḍālas, pañcamas, or untouchable as you say. But for us, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, there is no such distinction. Anyone can become Kṛṣṇa conscious. The pañcamas, the fifth class men are called caṇḍālas. Caṇḍāla means untouchable. So they are also many: kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ (SB 2.4.18). So Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). There is... Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva:

Guru-gaurāṅga: They have made studies and that if a woman gives birth at the age less than twenty there are more chances that she die according to their statistics.

Prabhupāda: Their statistics in the western world... Inductive knowledge is always imperfect. They have not seen in India. My wife gave birth at the age of fourteen years. She is still living. She is ten years younger than me. So sixty-eight, sixty-nine, she is. She gave birth child at the age of fourteen. In 1918 I was married, and 1921 she gave birth the child, my first son. And she was never unhealthy; neither she had to go to the hospital for maternity hell. Natural delivery of child. Hare Kṛṣṇa. This illicit sex, even with wife... If sex life is indulged after the period of menstruation, that is also illicit sex. There are so many rules and regulations about sex life in Vedic culture. That is real use of sex life. In the Bhagavad-gītā, sex life, He says that dharmāviruddhaḥ kāmo 'smi. "Sex life which is under regulative principle of the Vedic knowledge," Kṛṣṇa says, "I am that sex life. I am that sex life."

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: One only, less than minority. (laughter) The minority, majority, these are material conception. And spiritual is how much you are giving service to Kṛṣṇa. That is considered. That is to be taken into consideration. (pause) Kṛṣṇa says Himself, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye: (BG 7.3) "Out of millions and millions of people, one may understand Me." So if I have turned so many people to understand Kṛṣṇa, so that is service. At least, they are trying to understand Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...in winter in December, when I was going to the park, Regents Park, all the waters, frozen like stone, and with this stick, I was pushing, (makes sound-imitation:) "Tung, tung," like that. But I marked it that underneath the tree, there was no frozening. The water was there. Just like here is a tree. Just below the tree, there was water. And all around, frozen. The swans were walking on the... But on that place, they were floating. Hare Kṛṣṇa... (pause)

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Śakuni, yes. They're vultures, and their civilization is vulture-eater. The animal-eaters, they're like jackals, vultures, dogs. They're similar to these animals, the animal-eaters. It is not human food. Here is human food. Here is civilized food, human food. Let them learn it. Uncivilized, rudes, vultures, rākṣasas, and they're leaders. Therefore, I say all fourth-class men, they are leaders. Therefore the whole world is in chaotic condition. We require first-class men to lead. We are first-class men. Take our advice, and then everything will be all right. We are creating first-class men. What is the use of fourth-class men leading? All fourth-class men. If I say so frankly, people will be very angry. All fourth-class men. Basically, they're all fourth-class men. Now, these first, second, third-class men are described. So at the present moment, no one belongs to this qualification. Even they are not to the third-class men. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). Who is, who is protecting the cows? That is the third-class man's business. So therefore everyone is fourth-class. So the fourth-class men, they are electing their representative to govern. They are also on the big fourth-class men. That is stated in the Bhāgavata, śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). Where is that verse? Find out. All fourth-class men. Not fourth-class, less than fourth-class.

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They're after money. So they are less than śūdras. That is the cause that Christianity has fallen down, that they cannot speak straightly, or otherwise... It is straight commandment, "Thou shalt not kill." And because people are killing, they're... Now they are give man-to-man marriage, what to speak of other things. The priests, they are sermonizing this man-to-man marriage. Just see how degraded they have become. Whether any conception... At least, outside America, nobody knows that a man can be married with another man. What is this? And they're supporting it. You know that?

Room Conversation with German Women Philosophers -- June 17, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Therefore the conclusion is that the so-called intelligent man is simply misusing his intelligence. So when he misuses his intelligence he is less than the cats and dogs. Yes. (German) And then, after death, how he'll be in peace? (German) (break)

Pṛthu: She says that every man will get this peace, also the bad men.

Prabhupāda: Bad men also will get peace? (German)

Pṛthu: Yes.

Prabhupāda: This is nonsense. (laughter) Just see. How nonsense philosophers they are! (German)

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1975, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Sarva-śāstre kaya, lava-mātra sādhu-saṅge sarva-siddhi haya (CC Madhya 22.54). For me, personally, I had the opportunity to talk with my spiritual master not more than ten times in my whole life, not more. It may be less than that. But I tried to follow his instruction, that's all, although I was a gṛhastha.

Bali Mardana: You are a much better student than us.

Prabhupāda: So this is the process. That is the... You sing every day. Guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā aikya **. That is the process. Wherever you live, if you follow strictly the instruction of guru, then you remain perfect. But if we create, concoct ideas against the instruction of guru, then we are doomed, hell. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo yasyāprasādān na gatiḥ kuto 'pi **. There is no more shelter, finished. Yasya prasādāt. If guru thinks that "This person, I wanted to take him back to home, back to Godhead. Now he is going against me. He is not following," aprasādāt, he is displeased, then everything is finished.

Morning Walk Through the BBT Warehouse -- February 10, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Less than a minute, one copy.

Hṛdayānanda: Yes, both sides.

Rāmeśvara: Sixty minute lecture in less than a minute. So there is a big, growing business for Golden Avatar. More people are ordering your lectures all the time, all over the world.

Prabhupāda: Now, other countries?

Rāmeśvara: All over the world. They have accounts in Australia, Europe, everywhere.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Nowadays small boys, they are learning how to smoke. When I was first in America, in Butler, so I saw small children, ten to twelve years or almost ten, nine. They were smoking. I was surprised because in India, at least, that is not allowed. I think there is law. If any boy smokes less than sixteen years old, he is punished, in India. What is that?

Guest (7): I am looking at him. He is ten years old.

Prabhupāda: Oh, you can give him some book to see.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Oh, we have got any experience? You have got any experience? Then, why do you say nonsense, this? You have no experience, and you say something nonsense, ludicrous. They say "nature." What is the nature? Nature is a machine only. Just like the harmonium. It is also machine. But if one expert operator is there, it makes very melodious, oh, nice. So will the harmonium play automatically? And bring melodious sound? So they have no common sense even; still, they are scientist. That is our regret. They are less than common sense man. That you have to expose, that these people have not even common sense, and they are passing on as scientist. That you must protest because you are servant of God, you are servant of the scientist. Call them directly rascal. Let them defend that they are not rascal. He brought some scientist. I called him, "You are rascal, you are demon.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Therefore?

Guest (1): The number of cells that he comes equipped with is less than the normal and number of enzymes that must be equipped in certain proportions do not come in the right proportion so that the later functioning is not to the mark. Therefore full and cognitive ability is very much affected. So what we are trying to do is—hopefully in the next five years we can do it—is to define a critical period. We do not know yet what is a critical period. We are talking of a very large time, large span of time, but most probably it is only a few months period in which if the baby is supplied very well, at least then our system will not be affected. His body may be affected.

Room Conversation with Bernard Manischewitz -- March 5, 1975, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is experience. You will find many healthy persons in India subsisting only on these foodstuffs, and they have good brain also. India is still, I think, eighty percent people are strictly vegetarian. Not to speak of the higher class, but the lower class also. The higher class, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya and vaiśya. Vaiśya is via media, between higher and lower. And the śūdras and less that the śūdras, caṇḍālas, they are lower class. So meat-eating is current among these lower class of men, śūdras and caṇḍālas. The caṇḍālas, they have no discrimination, they eat everything, and śūdras, they eat meat, but under restriction. Some of them do not; some of them do, but under restriction, and that is restricted with the goat animal. Less than the śūdras-caṇḍālas, pañcama, fifth grade—they eat everything.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: No, no. They will be sent to your house. Pay for it. Hotel. In the Kali-yuga the sex impulse is so strong, but it is utilized in so many ways. The yogis, swamis, school, college, philosophy—at the end sex, that's all. That example, dog's tail. Whatever you do, greasing, the tail will be like this. (break) I think it is sooner. It takes time less than for going there.

Devotee (1): Oh, I came the short way.

Prabhupāda: Oh, he came by the short way.

Devotee (1):. Yes.

Prabhupāda: (break) This man is unemployed... (end)

Morning Walk -- May 18, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Motor buses were floating. Is that law of gravity? Air, different adjustment of air. If Kṛṣṇa desires, simply by air this whole city will be devastated. The other day we saw so many trees fell from (New?) Kurukṣetra. All trees and houses will be smashed within half an hour if some hurricane is sent. Poking nose in the affairs of God. They'll simply try to prove that there is no God. This is their attempt. And they say "nature." What is this nature? Nature is an instrument, machine. The authority is God, Kṛṣṇa. So I have given the right name, fourth-class men, not even third class. All fourth class. Śūdra. Śūdra and less than śūdra. This is the whole pack of population at the present moment. First-class man, his definition is there: śama, dama, tapa, śaucam, titikṣā, ārjavam, jñāna, vijñāna, āstikyam. That is first-class. They are snatching a motorcar mechanic as first class. Because he knows some mechanical arrangement how to do it, he is first class. Such things are being done by the demons. Machine or wonderful building, these are done by the demons. Now to begin? Time will come(?)?

Morning Walk -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: It is not effective. Just like the government spending to stop drug habit, millions of dollars, no use, but as soon as they come to us, immediately they give up. But still, the rascal will not pay the money to us. (laughter) We are doing so much benefit, but they will not pay. If you ask them money, "No, no, our money is not for religious purpose. For science. Our money is for science." Science means how, scientifically, you can kill cows. This is science. How, scientifically, you can become less than cats and dogs. This is their science. The cats and dogs also, they do not kill their children, but they are scientific advanced; the doctor advises, "Kill it."

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Then nature is your father.

Paramahaṁsa: No.

Prabhupāda: You are less than the nature, that you have to accept. Nature has already done. So either you say "nature" or "God," doesn't matter. But you are not bigger. You cannot take the credit.

Paramahaṁsa: No, we are sons of nature, so nature is greater than us.

Prabhupāda: "Sons of nature," that's all right. But why do you take credit, why do you want to take credit more than nature?

Paramahaṁsa: But we'd just like to understand how to use nature, how to work with nature.

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Yogi Bhajan: Metaphysical, psychics, intuitives, people who can perform things. They are all in God. I was surprised last night that A to Z, everybody talks about God, and none of them understands that the God is right in them. So I was one among them. It did change the whole thing. I honestly believe that it was very good for me to come. If I would have gone to the equals, where if I find some equal, it would not have done any good, you know. They all know what they know. We all know that what we know. But it was amazing that people liked it, people talked, people asked questions, people... Whatever I could share, I shared. But in the evening I was surprised. There were two hundred people, beautiful, seeking some way or the other, and looking for certain things for their life. So my only idea was that I have never worked less than these five, six days. It was very boring for me. There was no work. But I liked it. At least, I could share with them; they could share with me. First they were all doubtful what a yogi is, what a yoga is. I said, "Well, it is... After all, they were not asking me a yogurt. So there is a safety. So people, when people see you they hate you, they find you are different, that you taught something which you taught. They don't like it. They don't want to hear it. And gradually, gradually, gradually, it brings them to understanding. So I, my personal request, and on behalf of all those who are coming, I would like you to visit us if you possibly can and...

Prabhupāda: Give some prasāda.

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: (inaudible) Yogi Bhajan... did he come here?

Paramahaṁsa: At most eight years, seven or eight years.

Prabhupāda: So less than we are.

Paramahaṁsa: Oh, yeah. You were here long before he was here. I think he came... 1968 he came. So you came three years before him. I have seen his āśramas in America. I saw one in Arizona. He has quite a large āśrama there. And I saw some of his smaller ones in New Guinea.(?)

Bali-mardana: I've seen them in Brooklyn, but it was just an apartment. It was not really an āśrama.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: That's right. Very good civilization. (break)... Aryan civilization. This is not Aryan civilization. Barbarian. (break) A small child, he knows that "I shall become like my elder brother. I shall get this body, next body." And these people, they cannot understand that there is next body. That means their civilization is less than a child's civilization. (break) ...hantara prāptiḥ.

Bali-mardana: Even every child knows that "When I grow up I will have a different body,"...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bali-mardana: ...but they do not know.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: These people, they do not understand. What kind of civilized men they are? Less than a child, and they are proud of their science. (break)

Devotee: They're trying to catch some fish.

Paramahaṁsa: What are they doing?

Devotee: They're fishing.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Devotee: Crabs. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...fisherman. They keep this side open and this side covered. Front side covered, back side open. (end)

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, there are... Majority, 90%, they are always good. They never fall down.

Dr. John Mize: So we're among the 10%.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Or less than that. In the material, whole material world all the living entities they are... Just like in the prison house, there are some population, but they are not majority. The majority of the population, they are outside the prison house. Similarly, majority of living being, part and parcel of God, they are in the spiritual world. Only a few falls down.

Dr. John Mize: Does Kṛṣṇa know ahead of time that a soul is going to be foolish and fall?

Morning Walk -- June 27, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Cerebrum, yes. So intelligence becomes more more who has got more cerebrum. So psychologically, it is... A very intelligent man has got sixty-four ounce cerebrum. And woman, even she is very intelligent, is not more than thirty-four ounce. Therefore we don't find, amongst women, any big scientist. It is impossible. Don't be angry. (laughter) And these rascals giving equal rights. Just see. And Vedic civilization: "No, they should be protected." The woman should be protected by the father, by the husband, and by elderly sons. No independence. (break) ...she is my sister. She is old, about three years less than me, but she has got sons. She is very happy moving, protected by the sons. Even Kuntī, such intelligent woman, such educated and..., she also kept herself under her sons, the Pāṇḍavas. The Pāṇḍavas lost the game. They were banished, but Kuntī was not banished.

Morning Walk -- June 29, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: Mathurā, yes. His father, mother... That Sally used to say, "My husband is a lost child of their parents." He is not doing very well. He is getting $800. At that time, maybe $1,000. What is here, eight hundred, thousand dollars? He could have lived very comfortably at his father's care. He is very rich man. (break) (walking:) Thing is that people are working so hard day and night for these temporary years, and less than that laboring they can go to back to home, back to Godhead. Little labor. But they do not know. Kṛṣṇa says, yānti deva-vratā devān pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ (BG 9.25), bhūtejyā yānti bhū..., mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām. Just to get a nice car, a nice wife, and a few children by working so hard, bhūtejya, and the same labor, mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām, if he devotes for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he goes back to home, back to Godhead. And what is wrong there? We have got so many Kṛṣṇa conscious devotees. What is wrong there than these ordinary karmīs? Hmm? Are we unhappy? What do you think?

Morning Walk -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: No. (laughter) And still, these rascals, believing their eyes. What is the meaning of your eyes? You see, study mosquito. Not only mosquito, you will find at night I see a small insect, less than the magnitude of full stop. (Makes insect sound:) "Gu, gu, gu, gu." The same machine is there. Now see what is the machine there if you have such eyes. What is their answer? "In future." Just see. In future they will be able. Yes. (break)

Brahmānanda: ...will say that nature has created such a...

Prabhupāda: Then nature is greater than you. Then you are rascal. He knows, You have to accept, somebody is greater than you. He knows, you do not know. Learn from him.

Brahmānanda: Well, they say that they can control nature.

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Lt. Mozee: I recognize, sir, that your time is very valuable and I won't delay you much longer. If I could return to my original purpose for coming in the..., what words you may have that would assist us, my superintendent and my department, in the reduction of crime, other than, I recognize, that the first and the foremost way would be a return to God as you said, that there is no doubt about that. But is there something else that you may know or that you may feel that you may be able to say that would assist us in a reduction less than the ideal?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That I have already in the beginning said, that give us facilities, the authorities, to chant the holy name of God and distribute prasādam. Prasādam means...

Lt. Mozee: Yes, I understand.

Morning Walk -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Like a big fish, bigger fish.

Prabhupāda: Big fish is expert. He can go within the water and eat. He has to make some tackle. He is less than fish. (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: After catching, he eats it.

Prabhupāda: No, the fish immediately. He has to cook, he has to..., another thing. That means it is not his food. Artificially, he is eating. (break) ...has taken this photograph?

Brahmānanda: Yes, she did yesterday. (break)

Devotee (1): ...why do some of them carry these sticks.

Prabhupāda: Sticks?

Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Yes, cow, from where you get milk, that cow. So the exact word is used in Sanskrit, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Vaiśya, the third-class man, is called vaiśya. So his duty is how to produce food, food grains, for both for the animals and the man. And he gives protection to the cows. As the second-class man, the administrator, he gives protection to the human being from danger, similarly, the third-class man is entrusted to give protection to the cows. Cow is very important animal in the society because it is supplying milk, the most nutritious food. And... Find out. This is the third-class man's duty. And the fourth-class man means general worker. He has no brain, he simply helps the other three classes: first-class, second-class, and the third-class. And below the fourth-class men, they are called fifth-class, sixth-class. So they are called lower class, less than the fourth-class. So the society should be generally divided into four classes. As I have given example, there is head, arm, belly, and leg.

Morning Walk -- July 10, 1975, Chicago:

Jayatīrtha: (in car:) It says, "Forgive me if this story is not well-written. I am a woman. My brain weighs less than a man's, and I am not equal in intelligence." So she admits. "His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, the seventy-seven year-old founder of the International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, said so Wednesday. The Society is dedicated to peace in the world through love of God and relinquishment of all things material. The Swami spoke seated cross-legged on an expensive looking cushion surrounded by fresh flowers, microphones and burning incense in a conference room he rented at the Sheraton Chicago Hotel. He is in town for a Kṛṣṇa parade at 1:30 p.m., Saturday down State Street in which he will ride on a flower-bedecked float. He then will fly to Philadelphia for more celebration and philosophical chats. He looked occasionally at his gold watch as he explained his life philosophy. His adoring disciple, five men, knelt at his side. 'The MAN,' " capital M-A-N, "he said, 'who loves God, controls his sense, is clean inside and out, is simple and tolerant and uses knowledge he has acquired in practical life...' "

Prabhupāda: Intolerant?

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, not speculation. Īśopaniṣad, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1), everything beginning from īśa, the supreme controller... Where is speculation?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say that the Vedas are written by man so they are imperfect.

Prabhupāda: So you are less than a dog. It is written by man. That's all right. But you are less than a dog. You have no reason, no right. What is your philosophy? What is the value of your philosophy? It is speculation. We don't say, "It is written by man." Apauruṣeya. They may say whatever they..., we don't say. If somebody says, "Your father name is that," and I know my father's name. "What you are? You are not authority to say what is my father's name. I know very well." So it is their suggestion like that, "Your father's name is this." We don't say that "My father name is..." Is that very good suggestion? You don't know anything of my family.

Morning Walk -- July 17, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Where is civilization? (laughter) The mother is killing child—is that civilization? Where is civilization? Less than doggish civilization. Dog also do not do that. And they are claiming civilization, nonsense rascals. Mother is killing child, and is that civilization? Less than dogs and cats. The dogs and cats also do not kill their children. They try to protect. You know? The cats, they carry their cubs from one place to another so that the male cat may not kill. The tiger also do that. The tiger, they also give protection to the...

Brahmānanda: The rats, they sometimes do that.

Morning Walk -- July 17, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Everyone. Mother's affection is natural. Now the civilized mother is killing child. This is your civilization. This is your religion, this is your science, philosophy—everything. And for this, you have created so many big, big buildings to create some less than animals. Civilization is finished unless you take to Kṛṣṇa conscious. Now dictatorship is coming, politics. The dictator can arrest anyone without any trial and stop him. Even their own circle, the Communists... Nobody knows where is Kruschev. Indira Gandhi is doing.

Brahmānanda: Even they arrest you for sleeping now.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I have got enough place to sleep, and they will come, "You cannot sleep." What is this civilization?

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: One should be intelligent enough. Education must be directed in that way. But they do not know. Actually, they do not know it, that "My aim of life is how to go home, back to home, back to Godhead. That they do not know it. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). These rascals are trying to adjust things here materially and becoming more complicated, killing father, mother, and child even. (break) This is not civilization. Human being must be civilized. To know the goal of life and do it properly. That is instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā: "You rascal, give up all these so-called engagements. Surrender unto Me." This is civilization. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). This is civilization. Then you will be all right. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣa... You are engaged in so many sinful activities, as... Don't manufacture civilization. Take the idea of civilization from Kṛṣṇa. That is perfect civilization. The perfect civilization, Kṛṣṇa has giving idea, there must be first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class \en. And less than fourth-class, fifth-class.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: Cobbler is less than śūdra. Yes. Cobbler means when the cows die, the cobbler may take it. If he wants, he can eat the flesh, and he can utilize the bone, hoofs. He can prepare... He gets the skin without any price. So he can make shoes and he'll make some profit. And because he is cobbler, he can be allowed to eat meat, fifth-class... Not that "Professor such-and-such," and eating meat. This is the degradation of society. He is doing the work of a brāhmaṇa—teacher means brāhmaṇa—and eating meat-Oh, horrible! Śyāmasundara? So make, organize. I can give you the idea, but I'll not live very long. If you can carry out, you can change the whole... Especially if you can change America, then whole world will change. Then the whole world... And it is the duty because they are kept in darkness and ignorance, then the human life is being spoiled.

Morning Walk -- August 7, 1975, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Hm. So?

Brahmānanda: But that poverty means that they earn five thousand dollars or less. Less than five thousand is the line.

Prabhupāda: Well, it is all proportionate, that... You are paying rent for this room where I am staying, $175 per month?

Uttamaśloka: It has just been changed to 175 from 150.

Prabhupāda: So out of five hundred dollars if you have to pay 175, rent, then why it is not poverty? Almost one third money is finished by paying rent. (break) ...seen in India the Narmada Falls? Huh? Jabalpur? Ah, it is wonderful.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Prabhupāda: Yes, if you want to make mass communication, you can do anything. (break) Due to industrialization, all intelligent men, they came in the city. In the village it was deserted. So there was no improvement in the village, and people preferred to come to the city, means industry, business. So India's basic principle was village life. Now that is lost. The intelligent class men, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, they left villages for earning more money in the cities, and only the śūdras, less intelligent class of men, less than śūdras, they remained. So what they will do? So village became deserted. Still you’ll go and see in Indian villages, especially in Bengal, so many big, big palatial buildings, they are lying vacant.

Morning Walk -- November 1, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So how the energetic is producing, this is common. Gas is forming. Just like you perspire, there is water. So one ounce of water may come from your body. So water is coming from your body, so why not from the gigantic body of Kṛṣṇa, the oceans, millions of oceans, come out? This should be the understanding. We see practically that water is coming out from my body. So it may be one ounce or less than that because my body is very small, but Kṛṣṇa's body is unlimited, so why not unlimited supply of water? This should be the common sense. And this body, this body, what it is? It is earth. When the body will be dead it will be earth. So I am spirit soul, a small particle, so much earth is coming from me, why not Kṛṣṇa, the supreme spirit? This is the explanation. God is great, I am small. From me a small quantity of earth is coming, water is coming. Why not from the gigantic body of Kṛṣṇa, so huge, I mean to say, volume of water, gas, and everything as we see it is coming?

Morning Walk -- November 21, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This animal civilization, go-kharaḥ, is going as civilization—drinking, meat-eating, gambling. This is less than animal civili... Animals do not play gambling, at least. They have illicit sex, but no gambling.

Yaśomatī-nandana: They cannot have intoxication either.

Mahāṁsa: Oh, yes, drinking.

Prabhupāda: That sugar, they say that the ants they are very intoxicants; therefore they like sugar. Sugar is intoxication. Wine is made from sugar. Yes.

Mahāṁsa: Yes. Molasses.

Morning Walk -- November 26, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but you have no satisfaction even. Your culture is so bad that you are not satisfied even. Then you are better. Everyone is looking after satisfaction. So you have no satisfaction even. So you are less than animal.

Harikeśa: Well, at least everybody is not satisfied equally, so there's no envy.

Prabhupāda: Because you are, everybody is not learned, everybody is rascal. Therefore he is not satisfied. If one is in knowledge he is satisfied.

Harikeśa: But religion is just sentimentality. There's no...

Prabhupāda: You do not know what is religion. Therefore we do not accept sentimental religion. We say it is cheating. Such kind of religion, we say it is cheating.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Huh? But you are less than an animal. Talking nonsense. Put forward the problems, summarise janma-mṛtyu-jar-vyādhi solve these problems.

Harikeśa: Well we can solve the problem of birth by just killing all the children.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) That is not solving, the birth is already there, therefore you are killing. (everyone laughing)

Akṣayānanda Swami: Birth is still there.

Prabhupāda: No. Because there is birth therefore you are killing. So birth problem is not solved.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is śūdra. One has to become a brāhmaṇa, jñānam. But they have no knowledge; therefore they are śūdra. Brahmana means jñānam, vijñānam and āstikya: "Yes, there is God, and He is the original cause of everything." That is brahma-jña. Brahma jñānārthī brāhmaṇa. So where is brāhmaṇa? All śūdras. Kalau śūdra sambhava—especially in this age of Kali, everyone is śūdra, or less than śūdra. But still Kṛṣṇa gives the opportunity striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās te'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. How? Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya (BG 9.32), he may take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Even the śūdras, they also.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 20, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Mimeograph. I was printing. Yes. Then he inquired this Dai Nippon, many place. At last he said that "Unless we print twenty thousand, they will not take up this work." I said, "Immediately take it." From three thousand to twenty thousand immediately. At that time they were giving us ten cent or less than.

Sudāmā: Ten cent. It was around ten cents.

Prabhupāda: So in this way. Then how you'll increase?

Jayapatākā: Now you can sell whole sets.

Hari-śauri: Now more than one million.

Sudāmā: And in the years to come, many millions.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: If you can learn one, then your life will be successful for many thousand years. Hm? Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. You simply understand one verse of Bhagavad-gītā; then you understand everything. This is the meaning. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. (Bengali)

Sudāmā: I remember once you said, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that it took Arjuna less than forty-five minutes. He understood. But for us it is taking, for materialistic men...

Prabhupāda: Forty-five thousand years. (laughter) Who is therefore mūḍhas? Intelligent men can answer, understand everything, in a minute. And if he's a fool, rascal, even forty-five thousand years he cannot understand. We are giving the best service to the whole world, trying to make them educated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Morning Walk -- February 11, 1976, Mayapura:

Hṛdayānanda: In Caracas. Great roaring sounds and the sky became dark, no one could see, and then everything began to...

Prabhupāda: When it was?

Hṛdayānanda: Less than ten years ago.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Hṛdayānanda: Eight years ago, perhaps. My zone is very well known for that. Many times they have these disasters, and thousands of people are killed.

Prabhupāda: So you can stop these things by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Hṛdayānanda: When the capital was destroyed, the president of the country... He is named Samosa.

Morning Walk -- February 12, 1976, Mayapura:

Dayānanda: Isn't laziness one of the demonic qualities, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: It is less than demonic. Demonic qualities, they have some activity and laziness is ignorance, darkness. Therefore too much sleeping is very, very bad. That is another part of laziness. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **, one has to conquer over this sleeping and laziness. Eating, nidrā, ahāra, vihāra, sense gratification, vihāra means sense gratification. One has to minimize these things up to the point of nil, that is perfect. When there is no more sleeping, no more eating, no more mating, and no more fearing, that is perfection of spiritual life. And that is not possible, but as much as possible. (break) ...they cannot sleep more that the culture (?) is very great gain, profit.

Morning Walk -- March 13, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Hm. That is my philosophy. Read it. Read it somebody.

Satsvarūpa: "Ever since 1893, when Swami Vivekananda proclaimed monism and tolerance to the World's Parliament of Religions at Chicago, nonspecialists in America have pictured Hinduism as an easy-going phantasmagoria of smiling faces disappearing like dewdrops into the shining sea. The Nectar of Devotion should bring them up sharp. (laughter) His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, whose shorn, orange-clad disciples have brought the inseparable twins of bhajana and bakshish to the streets of America, has no doubt that such impersonalism is nothing less than rascaldom."

Morning Walk -- March 21, 1976, Mayapura:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Half of it is always bright.

Devotee: Yes. The part that's facing the sun.

Pṛthu-putra: But this is less than half.

Prabhupāda: And when they go to the moon planet, they go to the dark side. Is it not?

Haṁsadūta: No.

Pañca-draviḍa: No, they say they go to the light side, too.

Haṁsadūta: No, they say the dark side is so cold that no one can.... Because there's no sunlight, it is so cold.

Prabhupāda: That means they have no experience of all the sides of the moon.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe, specifically said, "within the heart." The.... Even a germlike, what is called, atom, less than atom, there is heart. Otherwise how Kṛṣṇa says, hṛd-deśe?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe. Every living entity.

Prabhupāda: Eh? And you say there is no.... You are our student. You are saying there is no heart. That means you do not carefully read.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, that's there, but is that the heart of the soul or the heart of the gross material body?

Morning Walk -- April 24, 1976, Melbourne:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: A little over fifty dollars an acre? Very reasonable.

Prabhupāda: Very cheap. Very cheap.

Guru-kṛpā: Less than that.

Prabhupāda: That New Orleans, our farm? It was nice.

Guru-kṛpā: Māyāpur is the best farm.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And it will be still better when our plan is made.

Guru-kṛpā: We want to set the example this year by also giving a big donation to Māyāpur and also building here.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, they will not understand even with stick. You see? They are less than dog. Bhagavad-gītā days, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13), very simple argument, that "As the child is becoming boy, boy is becoming young man, young man is becoming middle-aged man, and middle-aged is becoming old man, similarly, you are changing body." So where is the difficulty to understand? But they are so obstinate rascal, they will not believe. As soon as the child is dead, does he become boy?

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: There are so many stages. Here is the highest status. Govinda-viraheṇa me. Yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa. "For want of Govinda, I am thinking one moment as twelve years." Yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa cakṣuṣā prāvṛṣāyitam. "I'm crying like torrents of rain from my eyes." This is the highest necessity. This is also necessity. Yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa cakṣuṣā prāvṛ.... Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvam. "I don't see anything. Everything is vacant." And that we have experience. If somebody whom you love very much, he dies, you think, "I don't want anything. World is vacant." I've no necessity but Kṛṣṇa. This is also necessity. So we have to see first of all necessity, then quality of necessity. This is .... There is no necessity means dull matter. Similarly, when there is no necessity of God, one is in the lowest stage of life, narādhama, animal, less than animal, narādhama, at least, lowest of mankind. If he does not feel the necessity of God, that means lowest of mankind.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Go-rakṣya, the point is that cow's milk is very important. Therefore specifically mentioned go-rakṣya. Kṛṣṇa does not say that don't eat meat. It is not really said that meat-eating is forbidden. But meat-eating is tāmasika, prāmādya (indistinct). But He's speaking of go-rakṣya for our special material benefit, that if we protect the cows, we can have the facility of drinking milk, which will help us in keeping our health in order and developing very nice brain tissues to understand spiritual subject matter. Fish-eaters, they're all dull. They cannot understand finer philosophy of life. Meat-eating, not good. But the śūdras, and the less than śūdras, they eat. But for them there's lower animals, not cow.

Morning Walk -- May 31, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee (3): These plates, the silverware and things that people use?

Prabhupāda: No, whatever (unclear). Silver is not half price. Silver, little less than new one. They purchase one rupee less. It was 200 rupees new, and the purchaser will take 190 (unclear) ...India they use (unclear). Bell metal, copper...

Hari-śauri: Aluminium is becoming very popular now, aren't they?

Prabhupāda: They don't use aluminium much. If they have got excess money, they invest in metal-gold, silver, copper, bell metal.... Immediate loan—you can mortgage the metal pots, the metal ornaments, you get money immediately. (break) ...in a year, that is a metal purchasing ceremony. Every family will purchase, according to his means, some metal pots once in a year. Dhantraivesi(?) (indistinct) means desire some funds. So if there's some extra money—not big, big men; middle class storeman—they invest in metal purchase. If there is a good business day, (unclear) all the utensils (unclear). You know Diwali, Diwali?

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: This is the position. We are following the footprints of Prahlāda Mahārāja. We are following the instruction. There is no need of economic development. Live nature's life. Just like other animals, they have no question of economic development. They do not think of economic development. But still they are having the material facilities-eating, sleeping, sex and defense—there is. But there is no endeavor for economic development. So man, being advanced, why he should be less than the animals? His real business is how to develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not economic development. That is condemned here. Dr. Wolfe will not agree with us. (laughs) All right, read the purport.

Room Conversation with Ambarisa and Catholic Priest -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Stansky: May I pose a question, Your Grace? It's less than two weeks that I'm asking you for the second time to instruct me. You gave me some very general instructions in my last audience, and I'm very grateful. Many things have transpired since then. I'm now here in Detroit; we'll be going on to Toronto very shortly. From Toronto to Chicago, and then I'm not sure what the agenda is. I'm tremendously pleased because it's giving me an opportunity to work in the area that you said I should be working in. In addition to which I have ample time to study. And I have the assistance of Satsvarūpa with my studies. Now I have a question. I would like to keep a log of my daily activities and start preparing an outline of a book. Now the book very basically won't.... I won't be starting on the book for at least a year, but I would like to start keeping a log.

Prabhupāda: You can keep record.

Prabhupada Visits Palace and Garden -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Simple thing. And then live comfortably, eat comfortably, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Comfortably does not mean satisfaction of the senses. Comfortably means we require primary necessities, to eat something, to sleep somewhere or have some sex—this is also bodily need—and to defend, that's all. These are the primary necessities. That can be arranged anywhere. God has given all facilities. Grow your own food, eat, and live anywhere. Just this place was rough like that, now it is handled nicely, it is very attractive. (Bengali) Any damn place, you cleanse it, it becomes home. And any nasty man, you decorate him, he becomes a bridegroom. (laughs) (Bengali) (japa) Let Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement give this sense to these rascals. They do not know how to adjust things. They simply plan their United Nations, but they do not know what is that plan. Yes. United Nations. First of all why nation? Why manufacture nation and create trouble and again ununited? Nation—this word is not there in the Vedic language. There's no conception of nation. There is conception of varṇāśrama, everywhere. Not for any particular nation or any particular country, but everyone, according to quality-first-class men, second-class men, third-class men. That is there everywhere. Everywhere you go, you find some people first-class intelligent, some people less than him, some people less than him, up to fourth class, that's all. And then fifth class.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: So whatever they may do, things will happen like this. This is a fact. Can they increase the duration of life? People, can they make any scientific discovery that no man will die less than hundred years? Is there any such discovery?

Hari-śauri: The only discoveries they have made so far are how to kill people quicker.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Is there any discovery that here is a pill, you go on taking it, you'll not die before hundred years? Is there any discovery? Then what is the use of talking nonsense? They are reducing their life, that's a fact. And so far as mercy is concerned, we see how much it is reduced. The mother is killing child. Where is mercy now? So they may say anything like madman, but we see practically what is happening. Then?

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That's it. The aim is to please the Supreme through the spiritual master. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo **. This is the idea. Now, who is teaching this tapasya? Where is the school, college? Smoke: this is tapasya. And they are smoking before teacher. No offense. What you'll expect from such student? Animal civilization. This is not civilization. No tapasya, no brahmacārī. Tapo divyaṁ (SB 5.5.1). And tapasya begins from brahmacārī. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa śamena (SB 6.1.13), to control. Brahmacārī guru-gṛhe vasan dantaḥ. How to control senses, that is the beginning of life. Not ABCD learning and maybe your character may be less than an animal's, and you have got a degree of the university. You become a learned man. No. That is not accepted. Even from moral instruction, who is educated? That is described by Canakya Pandit.

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Dhana means money. So if you have got money, then everyone will respect you. Personally you may be less than a dog, but because you have got money, people will respect you. Is it not? (laughs) In England I was guest in John Lennon's house. He has taken a photograph, naked. And he's a big man. He gives opinion to the newspaper reporter. People go there to take his opinion about some serious subject, and he speaks, and the man is so shameless that he is standing naked, and he's important man—because he has got money. Especially in the Western countries this is very prominent. If you have got money, then you have got everything. Therefore they are after money only, that "If some way or other, if I get money, then I get everything. I get respect, I get honor. I get everything. Bring money somehow or other."

Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: And why there is no life in moon planet? Some scientists say the temperature is two hundred degrees less than the zero.

Hari-śauri: Yes, at night when they said, because there's no atmosphere.

Prabhupāda: But why these rascals say it is full of dust, and how from the dust so much light is coming, illuminating the whole universe? What is their logic? They have already brought the dust. That dust does not illuminate.

Hari-śauri: Well, they say just like when the sunlight hits the earth, then the earth appears very bright from outer space. It appears very illuminating.

Prabhupāda: Who says?

Room Conversation -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No, we need, we supply money to India. Depend on Kṛṣṇa; Kṛṣṇa will supply.

Vipina: Jaya. That happened just about less than a month ago. Some gentleman who was a Seventh Day Adventist, he became interested and started to call and come by and listened to the philosophy and even listened to your tapes. And then shortly after that he gave a donation of five thousand dollars. We bought with it some chandeliers for Kṛṣṇa's temple for you to see tomorrow.

Prabhupāda: Five thousand dollars?

Room Conversation With Scientists -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That I am stating, that when water dries up, we find deposits of earth.

Rūpānuga: Yes, because it precedes, and earth is being created from water, so you'll find earth in water originally.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But still water is one element less than earth.

Prabhupāda: No, earth is full of all elements.

Hari-śauri: What he is saying is back to front then. If earth has all the elements in it, then the other one says you go successively back, should have one less. So why is it water has earth in it when earth is the last one to be produced?

Prabhupāda: Not visible.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes. We have to transfer, because we are giving up this body. So you must accept another body. So either in this planet or in other planets or as human being or less than human being... There are 8,400,000 types of body. You have to accept one of them according to your karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). How the next body is developed, that is depending on our work. If we work like demigod, then we go and get the body of demigod. And if we work like dog, then we get the body of a dog. Nature's. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22). According to activity and association of the modes of material nature, we get, up and down, different varieties of body. Some of them are low grade, some of them are high grade. That depends on our association with the modes of nature.

Room Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Vṛndāvana I don't think less than fifty.

Hari-śauri: It sometimes gets colder, I think. Nowadays anyway.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Here it gets ten, fifteen.

Prabhupāda: But there is no snow in Vṛndāvana.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: We have plenty of snow here.

Parivrājakācārya: We're very high, we're six thousand feet above sea level.

Pradyumna: We've got everything.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Everything is explained there. If somebody comes to Kṛṣṇa even with material motive, ārto arthārthī... There are four classes of men: ārto, arthārthī, jñānī, jijñāsur. So jñānī, for the sake of knowledge, tries to understand what is God, what is Kṛṣṇa. Jijñāsur, inquisitive, actually what is Kṛṣṇa. And those who are less than them, when they become distressed, artha, or in need of money, they pray to Kṛṣṇa. Still, they have gone to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they are called sukṛtinaḥ. And one who has not gone to Kṛṣṇa, simply speculating, that description, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. These things are there.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Only? By car?

Mr. Sahani: No, no, by air. It's about, less than two thousand kilometers. Border is even nearer, but Kabul is less than two thousand kilometers.

Prabhupāda: One Afghan gentleman came. In Afghanistan there are many domiciled Hindus.

Mr. Sahani: Yes. Originally we use to live in Peshwar and they used to work and do business in Kabul and they lived in Kabul, but then they stayed on there and became Afghans.

Prabhupāda: After Pakistan. They left Peshwar and went to...

Morning Walk -- August 23, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Huh? What is that?

Harikeśa: The people have to do it to maintain the population level. We have to kill some of the children so that it doesn't become out of control, like the animals do it.

Prabhupāda: You are less than animal. You are greatest animal. You want to kill your children.

Vāsu Ghoṣa: But they have no life. There is only you know an amoeba in the womb.

Prabhupāda: Don't talk nonsense, waste time. All rascals proposal. Don't indulge in this rascal theory.

Room Conversation -- September 30, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He was coming. Then one day that boy Murray, he showed some crazy features. So I thought it is dangerous to live with him. So I approached Mukunda. Mukunda had no place, still I asked him. So I kept my goods at Mukunda's house and went to live with Yeargen. That is another loft. So in this way, with great hardship—sometimes here, sometimes there—in this way, I got two hundred dollars by selling books, and then I asked Mukunda to find out an apartment. He found this apartment, 26 Second Avenue. One storefront down and one living quarters up. So I found it very convenient. Down I would lecture and hold kīrtana. So he charged 75 dollars per month for the apartment, small apartment. I think in a space like this room or less than that, everything is there. There was kitchen, there was shower, and two rooms. I think less than this. Two-thirds of this room and everything there. So I shifted there. And there I remained up to May 1967, I think.

Garden Conversation -- October 9, 1976, Aligarh:

Prabhupāda: Still, they are. So the kṣatriyas are coming. One dynasty is coming from the sun, another... So moon is not desert. These are simply rascals. They do not know anything, and rascals believe that the moon is desert, and the sun is desert. Only this planet is full of variety and beauty. No. We have to take lessons from the śāstras. So anyone can be raised to the highest platform. Caṇḍālo 'pi dvija-śreṣṭho hari-bhakti-parāyaṇa.(?) Even one is born as caṇḍāla... Caṇḍāla means less than the śūdras. The dog-eaters. Caṇḍālas. Śva-paca. They are called śva-paca. Śva means dog and paca means cooker. One who cooks the... There are still so many. In Korea, in China, in Hong Kong. They eat dogs.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: How they can defeat us? We have got so solid ground. How they can defeat, these rascals? We consider them simply rascals and fools. And we call them rascals and fools. What do they know of religion? What do they know of God? They know slaughterhouse and killing and illicit sex, and killing the fetus. That's all. What do they know? They are not even civilized. We have come to make them civilized. They should understand. They are not civilized. They do not (know) how to eat even. The first principle of life is eating. They do not know how to eat. We are teaching them how to eat. They simply challenge, that's... When men are uncivilized, they do not how to grow food, they kill animals in the jungle and eat. When they are civilized, they know how to grow food now and the nice food grains, fruit, flowers, now why should say, "You eat the meat." The meat-eating is meant for the most uncivilized persons. That means they do not know even how to eat. They do not know how to eat. How to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex. Nothing. They're having sex like cats and dogs. No marriage, girl's friend, boy's friend, and then illegitimate... So many things. They should be exposed. And there is no harm exposing, in truth. Simply by manufacturing, constructing a big, high skyscraper building, does it mean he is civilized? It is passionate work. They can take credit of a good mistri, just like so many mistris, they construct. I cannot do. Does it mean I am less than him?

Room Conversation on Farm Management -- December 10, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Not nice, it is not eatable even by the dogs. But you are less than the dogs if you (prepare) such thing. I was surprised. You allowed a sweeper to cook. I was surprised. We have distribution prasādam, not dog's food. Such rascals as here. You do not know. I do not wish to discuss anymore on this point. You have murdered the whole thing in two days. Now if possible, bring them, bring them first class prasādam, very palatable. Foodstuff means even one has no appetite he'll eat. That is food. Not that even one has got appetite, he'll forget. That is not food. So do like that and for money produce, use cane, sugar cane, rice. We shall spend for that. Don't spoil money, but do like businessman. He invests money, he gets a return. Spend it for Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But you don't get customer even lesser than that. First of all see your position. You may calculate in the mind that "This is cheap, this is not," but cheap or no cheap, you are not getting any customers. (chuckling)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, because we never went after the tourist traffic. We have just started going after this foreign traffic with these brochures, and now we have...

Prabhupāda: And now, in the Sixth Chapter there are forty-seven verses. So divide forty-seven with seven.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's seven.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Fourteen rupees I think it was. Fourteen rupees is twenty kilos.

Prabhupāda: Less than that. Ten seers.

Dr. Patel: That is twenty kilos.

Trivikrama: Cow ghee?

Prabhupāda: No, buffalo's... Cow ghee we were taking with rice. But it was not available in quantity.

Dr. Patel: Many was so very cheap then. After I graduated myself when I was university scholar, I was given seventy-five rupee scholarship per month and a free bungalow with servants and all these things. It was all right for me till I passed my M.D., seventy-five rupees only.

Prabhupāda: This cow's milk in Bengal, it is compulsory-before beginning your meal, little cow milk, er, ghee mixed with rice and smashed potato. It is very nice.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: The śūdras are ruling the world over, not only in India. Because Nixon was less than a śūdra, they way he carried out himself, the highest authority of the most advanced state materialistically.

Prabhupāda: Now they are going to take care of it, these brāhmaṇas.

Dr. Patel: But he made a very bad show. The place where a man like...

Prabhupāda: Washington.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Rāma means Kṛṣṇa, the same. Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā niyamena tiṣṭhan (Bs. 5.39). Kṛṣṇa is always existing with His different incarnation, expansions, rāmādi-mūrti-Rāma, Nṛsiṁha, Varāha.... There are hundreds and thousands of expansions. Advaita acyuta anādi ananta-rūpam. So Rāma is expansion of Kṛṣṇa. He's God. There is no difference between Rāma and Kṛṣṇa. Just like one candle, and if you light another candle, another candle, so one may be the first, second, third, like that, but in candle power they are all the same; similarly, Rāma is expansion of Kṛṣṇa. That does not mean Rāma is less than Kṛṣṇa. Rāma, Nṛsiṁha, Varāha. There are many.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Pradyumna: "It is said here that the cows used to moisten the pasturing land with milk because their milk bags were fatty and the animals were joyful. Do they not require, therefore, proper protection for a joyful life by being fed with a sufficient quantity of grass in the field? Why should men kill cows for their selfish purposes? Why should men not be satisfied with grains, fruits and milk, which combined together can produce hundreds and thousands of palatable dishes? Why are there slaughterhouses all over the world to kill innocent animals? Mahārāja Parīkṣit, grandson of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, while touring his vast kingdom, saw a black man attempting to kill a cow. The king at once arrested the butcher and chastised him sufficiently. Should not a king or executive head protect the lives of the poor animals who are unable to defend themselves? Is this humanity? Are not the animals of a country citizens also? Then why are they allowed to be butchered in organized slaughterhouses? Are these the signs of equality, fraternity, and nonviolence? Therefore, in contrast with the modern, advanced, civilized form of government, an autocracy like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's is by far superior to a so-called democracy in which animals are killed and a man less than an animal is allowed to cast votes for another less-than-animal-man."

Prabhupāda: That's all (laughing) we have said. You can do one thing. You have got nim tree?

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Three thousand lost.

Dr. Patel: Because the prices was so down, you see, and fertilizer they are selling at a very high rate. Before it was available, a bag, for fifty rupees or fifty-one. Now it is more than eleven-ten. They don't want that a man in the city should be employed for less than five rupees a day. It's very expensive. And they don't work also. They used to work very hard in ancient times. Now they come at ten o'clock, go at five. Before they used to come early morning at six, seven o'clock and work up til five in the evening, and you used to feed them afternoon.

Room Conversation -- January 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now, in export and exchange with paper, good paper.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We can import paper. The government will let us import paper for exporting without any problem. But I'm just saying that the export edition of Gītā is going to cost us about two rupees less than the Indian edition for Indian market because...

Prabhupāda: So why not import paper? It will be very nice.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Because on paper now there's high duty, but if it is for export, the government...

Prabhupāda: Then America can order from you also.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes, Dacca University next to Calcutta University. Just see how human beings are becoming less than ferocious animals.

Gargamuni: Even one man, he was making a plaque in your name in thankfulness for preaching this Vaiṣṇava-dharma. He was making a wooden plaque, and he was a doctor of physics at the university. And one night they came in and shot him and his whole family, this man. He was very helpful to us while we were there.

Prabhupāda: Only fault that he was making some...

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: He is bringing life. What is the answer of these rascal scientists?

Satsvarūpa: No good answer. Bluff.

Prabhupāda: Challenge them like this, that "First of all do it. You are less than the chicken. Why you are claiming so much honor? We treat you, you are fig. You are less important than the chicken. Prove that you have got some power; then claim that you are scientist." Hm? Is that argument all right? What will be the counterargument?

Gurukṛpā: A sane man would accept.

Prabhupāda: They're all rascals. They do not know anything; still, they are claiming very high position.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: What is wonder? This is wonder for you, rascal. We see you are as good as dog. The dog with his four legs is running. He has no looseness. But your machine is now loose. Now you cannot go. This is your progress. A dog with four legs, he will immediately, immediately go, and now you have to wait. This is your progress, less than the dog. When there is dog race... We are going in the car, and dog is running after. We see sometimes. We see, "Oh, dog is running. You cannot have a car." Dog is free to run. You are not free to run, rascal. As soon as there is little looseness, dog will go hundred miles away from you. And you'll sit down here and cry. This is your progress. That race, you know? Tortoise?

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Advancement.

Gurukṛpā: Yes. Advancement of the pig.

Prabhupāda: It is horrible to hear even. Therefore para-upakāra. The rascals are less than the asses and dogs. Therefore to give them Kṛṣṇa is the best para-upakāra.

Gurukṛpā: Yesterday, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you were speaking about a man who becomes very educated but he can't get a job. He becomes like a dog. Well, I was reading in the paper that this one man in Sydney, he put an ad in the newspaper saying, "I will become your house dog, because I think a dog's life is better than my life because I cannot get a job. So now I want to have a job as a human dog. Anybody want to hire me?"

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, we... "It is voluntary. In our society we find so many brahmacārīs, so many gṛhasthas. And if you cannot stop this itching sensation, all right, marry one girl and live peacefully like a gentle... What is this nonsense, every three weeks divorce? We are not so rascal. If we accept one girl as my wife, I take full responsibility. Because I require a girl or woman, so this woman, that one... We are not so rascal that at home I have got woman, I am searching after another woman, another naked woman. We are not so madman. The sex pleasure is there at home, and I am seeking after sex pleasure in here, here, in the club, in the... What is that? Is that vagina is different? You are so fool. You require vagina; take one vagina. Be satisfied. And lick it. Why you are going here and there, here and there, here and there? Even old man is going to the nightclub to lick another vagina. Is that civilization? You are proud of your civilization." Tell them like that. "Licking of the vagina, different, obnoxious smell. You are less than the dog. The dog likes to smell the vagina. You are like that.

Evening Darsana -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Bali-mardana: This is $3.90 for five pounds, no, two kgs.

Brahmānanda: Two pounds.

Bali-mardana: No, no, it's four pounds six ounces. Four and a half pounds. Less than one dollar per pound, little bit less.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Same as in America.

Prabhupāda: Per pound. What is the price here?

Devotee (4): About eighteen rupees.

Bhāgavata: Sixteen or eighteen rupees a kg.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Indian man: About quarter to two.

Kārttikeya: Less than twenty-four hours.

Mr. Dwivedi: Less than twenty-four hours. Twenty-two hours.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Are there any other trains?

Mr. Dwivedi: That... You have got the night train, leaving nine o'clock. That is taking you Gwalior at eleven o'clock in the night.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no, no...

Mr. Dwivedi: That is inconvenient.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nothing.

Mr. Dwivedi: But this is...

Prabhupāda: Very good atmosphere.

Mr. Dwivedi: This is just a mile or even less than a mile from our colony itself. River there... First of all there is river. Your Holiness may not be... Your Holiness will be able to see it from the riverside. But other people, my friend Gosvāmī, will be able to go up over the mountain. It's not a very...

Prabhupāda: And river, river, how far it is, river?

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Good place.

Mr. Dwivedi: So this is a mile's, hardly, less than a mile's distance from our colony. And the river it is perennial river. We have to just cross it, and it gives good passage, particularly during this season. All seasons practically we go and go over the mountain and the temple. Then, on the roadside itself near our colony, there is a water temple. We call it Jagamandir(?). That is also a beautiful temple. It's like the (indistinct) type. And one story of that temple is always in the water. Even in the summer, when Your Holiness will go there, Your Holiness will find. And that is Kṛṣṇa's temple.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Conversation: Animals' Expertise -- April 28, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Expecting. Hope against hope. This is struggle. That they do not see. They do... We have got this valuable life. What we are doing? We are doing the same thing as the small ants do. So what is the difference between that life and this life? Therefore Kṛṣṇa comes that "This is not your business. Your business is to surrender unto Me." Sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). That will be solved automatically. But they don't. They take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and apply it for solving these problems. Gandhi and Bhagavad-gītā—what is that? Political struggle. Such a rascal. And he's leader? He does not know what is the purpose of Bhagavad-gītā. Has Kṛṣṇa come down to speak how to defend, how to eat, how to sleep? Is there any statement there? Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Solve this problem. This is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. And who, nonsense, understands this? Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). This teaching... This is a teaching of Bhagavad-gītā. And they are taking Bhagavad-gītā for solving these problems. That's all. Ants' struggle. Violence, nonviolence and... So such big, big rascals are guiding us. What benefit they have given? And they are praised. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ... (SB 2.3.19). He's an animal, and he's praised by some small animals. That's all. This is their position. They are not actual leader. They are animals, but because we are small animals, we are praising. So it is very difficult to understand our philosophy, but still, we have to preach. That is our mission. A little drop, maybe like a film or less than that... Still, they are...

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Sold.

Rāmeśvara: "...or any way shall the ownership or the assets of the trust be alienated or disposed of. This clause cannot be revoked or amended under any circumstance. Section 5: Management of the Trust. The trustees who have herein been designated are appointed for life. In the event of the death or failure to act for any reason of any of the said trustees a successor trustee or trustees may be appointed by the remaining trustees, with never less than three or more than five trustees acting at one time."

Prabhupāda: And the majority decision should be always accepted.

Srila Prabhupada Vigil -- May 28-29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayapatākā: You told me.

Prabhupāda: And these ācārya and president, they are less than paid servant. They are afraid of.

Jayapatākā: Yeah, Tīrtha's brother and some...

Prabhupāda: That "Some way or other, we're keeping some position." And if Samvit kicked him out, then where is his position? That is another problem. This Rādhā-Govinda Mahārāja, what he can do if he's driven away? In this age he cannot have his own institution. And in this age where he'll go? They are... "These politicians, these old men, they cannot do now. So give them some false position, that 'You are president, ācārya.' They will not rebel at least." And as soon as they do something against them, "We shall drive away: 'No, you cannot be president. Another president.' " That's all. They had no love for him, neither he has any love for them. It is simply official. This Samvit dāsa one, Samvit, also not very intelligent.

Srila Prabhupada Vigil -- May 28-29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Jayapatākā: Smallest. Even that, there's not regular bhoga or prasāda distribution, nothing. The people there, they came and asked me that "Why you don't establish, do some saṁskāra? You establish your mandira here." I said, "You tell the man here to give to us. Immediately I am putting one chada(?) on this nātha-mandira and distributing prasāda weekly, five hundred people." They surrounded, that man said, and practically everything less than physically grabbed him. They were yelling at him, "Why you are not giving?" Says, "If you don't do, then we'll make our own committee and give."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Do that. They are simply... They can do.

Jayapatākā: And everyone appreciates your work, Śrīla Prabhupāda. What you've done for Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava, no one has done.

Discussions -- June 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Girirāja: "And Śrīdhara Goswami. The committee members who have herein been designated are appointed for life. In the event of the death or failure to act for any reason of any of the said committee members, a successor committee member or committee members may be appointed by the remaining committee members, provided that the new committee member is an initiated disciple and following strictly all the rules and regulations of ISKCON as detailed in the books of His Divine Grace..." Oh. "...detailed in my books, and provided that there are never less than three or more than five committee members acting at one time. 4. I have created, developed and organized the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, and as such, I hereby will that none of the immovable properties in India in the name of ISKCON shall ever be mortgaged, borrowed against..."

Prabhupāda: Why India? Everywhere. Everywhere.

Room Conversation Gaurasundara, Dr. Kapoor -- July 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...without any venue. That is something. "And what is this? This is Vedas?"(?) Sarcastically, humorously... Why people have become so rascal?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not better than any cockroach.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Less than a cockroach.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The cockroach is born in the toilet.

Prabhupāda: That is it. And when it has got some wings, it flies.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Doesn't have to pay any thousand pounds sterling.

Prabhupāda: Or meditate. It is humorously liked. Handpaper, it was published by the Times. (break) ...for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Very beautiful. I think it's even more beautiful than Hyderabad. It's hundred acres compared to six hundred acres, but all hundred acres is cultivable. And secondly, it is not far from the city. It is only like from Juhu to Churchgate. It's even less than that.

Yaśomatīnandana: Eight miles.

Prabhupāda: It is nothing.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Nothing. It took us fifteen minutes by scooter to get that. So I suggested to Yaśo that we should make that farm like New Vrindaban. Let us build a temple there...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 12, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Magistrate wants my presence?

Jayapatākā: No. It is not required that you talk to him. There's no... Everyone says that there's no case for that. The previous ADM said that actually the person that was doing it is this woman district magistrate. That woman is quite inimical to us. So there's very strong talk that after Durgā Pūjā she'll be transferred. If she's transferred, then our situation would become much better, I hope, by Kṛṣṇa's mercy. She's just trying to harass us, but actually she has no legal scope. Indian Overseas Bank came out, the additional general manager, to Māyāpur, and he's very eager to open up the branch at Māyāpur also, because they have already in Bombay. I think... They have here also? I don't know. But he was eager to open a branch there. They have made us an application. The Central Bank sent a letter, withdrew their application for opening the bank. Right now the Gurukula, they have just finished their examinations. Their examinations were writing an English sentence in Sanskrit and writing Sanskrit in English and similar type tests. They, most of the students got seventy percent on the examination. Then the bigger children went out on saṅkīrtana with the two traveling parties, one to Darjeeling. In Darjeeling they sold seven thousand books in less than ten days.

Doctor Visit and Conversation -- October 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Jayapatākā: That's the concentrated.

Dr. Gopal: This is concentrated. You should not give so much concentrated. You just, so to say, about six ounce of water... You just add less than 1 spoon, one measureful, of this electro.

Bhavānanda: Six ounces.

Dr. Gopal: In six ounces. And you give just two... (Hindi) Just give 2 teaspoon. Rest. Again 2 teaspoon. This is just sort of, you can call it as in the form of prasādam, or you can say in the form of rainwater so that his dryness should not be there in the mouth. It should always be wet. You understand my point?

Jayapatākā: He wants some cold water.

Trivikrama: Upendra went.

Upendra: One hundred and fifty urine. (background conversation) What was that, about?

Dr. Gopal: About half. (discussion about medicine)

Prabhupāda: I am ready to leave(?).

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, more.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, Śrīla Prabhupāda. One lakh, five thousand, divided by twelve—a little less than ten thousand a month.

Prabhupāda: So you can pay that ten thousand month? Huh? Bhavānanda?

Bhavānanda: Yes. Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: Do it very conscientiously.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We'll begin with... We'll already have one lakh. So the first year we've already got, to begin with, one lakh of rupees. If you like that idea, to begin with that.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What is the rent of the house?

Girirāja: The rent? It's about twelve hundred rupees, but that's less than one thousand Indian rupees, and it's right on the way to the Paśu-pati-nātha temple, which is the biggest temple in Nepal.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Very famous temple.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You've heard of it, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hm. People go there to see.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How is it on the way? Directly on the way?

Room Conversation -- November 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This year, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we will have distributed about two million Bhagavad-gītās, in different languages. One year. (break)

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: He says that the swelling is much less than before, and there is no weakness in the heart also.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everything is going nicely except that the strength is going away.

Bhakti-caru: Right, yes.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: When did Śrīla Prabhupāda take foodstuff last?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Foodstuff? Cāpāṭi? Rice? About four months ago.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He took a little bit about a month ago, but it was very little.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda says he thinks he will be cured by the parikrama. (Bhakti-caru and Shastriji—Hindi)

Haṁsadūta: Under the circumstances we have to consider whether Prabhupāda's opinion is more or less than the kavirāja's, is what it comes down to.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can't continue..., consider. Śrīla Prabhupāda has to.

Haṁsadūta: If Prabhupāda says that by going on parikrama he feels he'll be cured, then how can we continue to place arguments against him?

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Kuvera?