Leading (Conv. 1967 - 1975)

Expressions researched:
"lead" |"leading" |"leads" |"led"

1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Hayagrīva: Are there any of the characters listed up here among the brāhmaṇas who complained?

Prabhupāda: No. They complained... Characters... Ordinary brāhmaṇas.

Hayagrīva: Yes. All right. I can't think of anything there. That leads into the next scene, third scene.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then the next scene is that some constables came and during the Hari-saṅkīrtana, they broke the mṛdaṅgas that "You have disobeyed the magistrate order that... So you cannot do it." So as the constables, they do some violence or assault, so they did that. And after the constables went away Caitanya Mahāprabhu was informed. He came. He saw that the mṛdaṅgas are broken and everything is strewn away so Caitanya Mahāprabhu saw. He decided, "All right. Now we shall organize a civil disobedience movement. Now tomorrow we shall organize thousands and thousands of people with mṛdaṅgas and we shall approach the magistrate house." So He... Next scene... What is that next scene?

Hayagrīva: Now the constables broke up a saṅkīrtana carried on by Caitanya's friends. Any location here particular?

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is called the Śrīvāsa house.

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk at Stow Lake -- March 27, 1968, San Francisco:

That is also explained in the Bhāgavata. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). That activity is considered to be the highest pious activity. The Bhāgavata does not say what kind of Prabhupāda: activity. "That activity which leads one to be a devotee of the Lord." That activity is not limited. Any activity that makes one progressing for realization of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is higher, the highest pious activity. That is the description. Just as military art is not a very pious activity, killing art. But because the killing art exhibited by Arjuna was leading him to this platform of satisfying Kṛṣṇa, so that became the highest pious activity. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro... We have to see whether by his activity he's gaining strength in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then it is highest. It doesn't matter whether it is photography or business or painting or cooking. It doesn't matter. Whether Kṛṣṇa is being satisfied by his activities? Just like you are engaged in different activities. But as soon as you bring your money and engage in the Society's cause, oh, I am very gratified. I do not inquire... Of course, we do not encourage impious activity. That is not the meaning. But phalena paricīyate. Because you offer the result of your activities to Kṛṣṇa, that becomes pious. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). So that is the standard of pious activity. Now, this is also pious activity, heeding before teacher.

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: The same thing. Of course, another thing is that we teach our boys to become brahmacārī. Brahmacārī. Brahmacārī means how to lead the life of celibacy.

Journalist: Hm?

Prabhupāda: Just Howard explain brahmacārī life.

Journalist: Yes, I understand.

Hayagrīva: Well, it's control of the senses, and he teaches us how to control the senses. Generally, marriage doesn't take place until a boy is about 22, 23, 25.

Journalist: You mean in his culture.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We select girl, say, about 16, 17 years old, and boys not more than 24 years old. I get them married. You see? And because their attention is diverted to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they have very little interest simply for sex life. You see? They have got better engagement. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). You see? We give substitute. We simply don't say that "You don't do it," but we give something better. You see? Then automatically the "don't" automatically comes. You see?

Journalist: At the right time.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 11, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Otherwise everyone will become tired and that will be chaotic. Response. That's nice. Then the audience will respond.

Allen Ginsberg: We got into some responsive chanting last time.

Kīrtanānanda: Why don't you lead?

Prabhupāda: Huh? I can lead.

Allen Ginsberg: That's a good idea.

Prabhupāda: I can lead.

Allen Ginsberg: That's a groovy idea.

Hayagrīva: I think what we'll do is you lead the first chant, and then...

Prabhupāda: Others will respond.

Hayagrīva: And then Mr. Ginsberg can talk a little of his experiences, and then you talk. And then Mr. Ginsberg lead the second.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 11, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Devotee: Because Prabhupāda will be speaking for an hour, maybe Hayagrīva you can lead the first chant. You have a very nice voice too. Because he'll be speaking for an hour.

Prabhupāda: If there is time he will also speak.

Hayagrīva: Well, if he can lead the first I think that would be... The students would be...

Allen Ginsberg: Yes. If he leads the first, will they be able to have responsive chanting too? Do you want responsive chanting when you lead?

Hayagrīva: Oh yes. You'll lead, then we'll respond.

Prabhupāda: If every one of our devotee will respond, naturally the audience also will respond.

Hayagrīva: We'll have a microphone to make it easier for the audience.

Prabhupāda: Then you also one of us.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Therefore why I have come to you? That is also my view. I have come to America with this view, that America is on the summit of material civilization. They are not poverty-stricken. You see? And they are seeking after something. Therefore I have come, that "You take this, you'll be happy." That is my mission. And if the Americans take, then all other countries will take because America is leading at the present moment. So persons, exalted persons like you, you try to understand. What is the difficulty? There is no difficulty. Chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, anyone can chant. Even the child is trying. There is no difficulty. And so far what is our modes of living?

Allen Ginsberg: Mere chanting without the practice of a philosophy and a daily ritual...

Prabhupāda: Philosophy is there. We are teaching Bhagavad-gītā. We are talking on Bhāgavata philosophy, we are talking on Caitanya's philosophy.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

George Harrison: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is a verse in Bhagavad-gītā,

yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas

itaras tad anuvartate

sa yat pramāṇaṁ kurute

lokas tad anuvartate

(BG 3.21)

The idea is that anything which is, I mean to say, accepted by the leading persons, ordinary persons follow them. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas. Śreṣṭhas means leading persons. Ācarati, acts. Whatever leading persons act, people in general follow them. Sa yat pramāṇaṁ kurute. If the leading person says, "It is nice. It is all right," the others also accept it. So by the grace of God, Kṛṣṇa, you are leaders. Thousands of young men follow you. They like you. So if you give them something actually nice, the face of the world will change. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, it is not a manufactured new thing. It is, from historical point of view, at least, it is five thousand years old.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. If you believe Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord, if that is your version, then you have to see who are much addicted to Kṛṣṇa directly. For argument's sake. That these people are twenty-four hours chanting Kṛṣṇa, and another person who has no, not a single word Kṛṣṇa, how he can become devotee of Kṛṣṇa? How he can become representative of Kṛṣṇa, who does not utter even the name of Kṛṣṇa? If Kṛṣṇa is authority accepted, therefore who are directly addicted to Kṛṣṇa, they are authorities. (Kīrtanas follow, George Harrison leading) (end)

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1970, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh, oh, yes, yes. I remember. She is envious, that "Why two page advertisement, publicity has been..." That's all.

Haṁsadūta: There's another letter. It says, "Your leading article on the Kṛṣṇa cult makes interesting reading. A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, the Indian founder of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, ISKCON, and his American disciples repeatedly told K.R. Sundarajan, the author of the article in the Times Weekly, November 8th, 1970, during their brief stay in Bombay that theirs was not strictly a Hindu movement. They explained to him that Kṛṣṇa was above all religions, the universal teacher, the supreme man, the purification of the Absolute Truth. If it is so, then why can't they go to Pakistan and China for chanting of Kṛṣṇa's name and ask them to vacate aggression? The soil of this land where the great master was born..."

Prabhupāda: Now, now, we have to serve the political, politicians. Eh? Because they cannot do, so they are asking us.

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1970, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) I was born a Vaiṣṇava family. My father was a great devotee. Naturally, he led me... Oh, I am speaking in Hindi, English. (Hindi) They are not attracted to the Hindu dharma.

Guest (6): Then why they attracted to Hare Rāma, Hare Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: They are attracted to Kṛṣṇa. These people, they are... (Hindi) But you are taking Kṛṣṇa as Hindu. That is your mistake. Kṛṣṇa is... Hindu ne. He is God. He is God. God Hindu ne, Mussulman ne, Christian ne, Parsi ne—God is God. (Hindi) And I am also not interested to preach Hindu dharma. (Hindi) ...Kṛṣṇa dharma. Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is the only dharma. (Hindi) ...Kṛṣṇa literature. It is not a Hindu dharma literature.

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Our conception of God is that He is a transcendental person. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Īśvara means Lord. The Supreme Lord is a person. As you are person, He is also person, but He is the chief person. Nityo nityānāṁ. He is the leader, and we are all led. Or He is the master; we are the servitors. That is our self-realization, to understand that "I am eternal servant of God." In Bhagavad-gītā it is said, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loke sanātanaḥ: (BG 15.7) "Eternally all the living entities are My part and parcels." So as the part and parcel of anything is to serve the cause of the whole, similarly, all living entities, their only business is to serve the Supreme. That is all.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: That is the point.

Guest (1): That is the point. And for that, what kind of spiritual should we lead?

Prabhupāda: That is... That I am going to explain, that... That is one line: sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriya-grāhyam (BG 6.21). This sukham ātyantikaṁ is being searched both by the Western, Eastern, everyone, even cats, dogs, everyone. But the cats and dogs, animals, they cannot adjust what is that ātyantikaṁ sukham. But human being can. So human being, there is no question of Eastern and Western. It is a question of degree only. But actually everyone is searching after that perpetual happiness. So it is a problem for everyone, and that problem can be solved by Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation -- April 6, 1971, Bombay:

Guest: What can I say? Then only when sādhus are attacked, then only...?

Prabhupāda: No, no. You quoted from Bhagavad-gītā; I am replying from Bhagavad-gītā. You quoted from Bhagavad-gītā, so your answer should be given from the Bhagavad-gītā. You told me that Kṛṣṇa or God comes when there is such and such adharma, so what is adharma, what is dharma, who is sādhu—these things should be understood. But generally, this movement is to create sādhus. So you have to give time. You have to cooperate. This incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa and nāma, Kṛṣṇa's name, is the same. Abhinnatvaṁ nāma-naminoḥ: "There is no difference between Kṛṣṇa's name and Kṛṣṇa." So you encourage this movement. You will see that there will be no more fighting. Kṛṣṇa has come. Welcome Kṛṣṇa. But if you noncooperate with Kṛṣṇa, then how you'll get happiness? Kṛṣṇa has already come by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You receive Him. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭha (BG 3.21). You are all respectable gentlemen. You accept it. Then others will follow. Tat tad evetaro janaḥ. And if leading personalities of the society, they reject it, then how Kṛṣṇa is welcome? How can you expect? (Hindi) Everyone should welcome this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Then actually there will be dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya, paritrāṇāya sādhūnām. Everything will be done.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Dr. Weir: The trouble is, aren't you going to lead yourself into this difficulty: if you are spiritually satisfied you would sit down and do nothing and if everybody were doing that we should be rather back to where we started rather than have enough food or music or transport.

Prabhupāda: That is for the voidist, not for the spiritualist. The spiritual life there is enough activity for even scientists. That they do not know. They mean spiritual life is void. That is negation of the present activities only, negative idea. But actually when you stop material activities your real activity begins. That is spiritual life. The spirit, spirit soul is active. You cannot stop it. You cannot stop it. Now it is acting through the coverings of material, matter, therefore it is imperfect activities. But if the activity is uncovered by material things that is real activity.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Śyāmasundara: The other day we were discussing Socrates. And Socrates' method was to bring the self under control by inspecting oneself, "Know thyself," and thereby be able, lead a moral life with self-respect and self-control. But Prabhupāda was saying that this is not an ordinary thing. Not many men can achieve this rational control. So by simply cultivating spirit, nourishing spiritual life, any man can control his senses.

Prabhupāda: Just like, somebody, there is a child, a child is active, but his frivolous activities, or mischievous, have to stop when he's active in taking education. You see. The same child, his energy for becoming active is transferred for taking education. He's no more acting mischievously breaking this, doing this, doing that. The activity is there. Now that is purified. Similarly, spiritual life means the spiritual activity, that is purified activity. These boys, they have given up drinking, meat-eating. That does not mean they stop eating. They're eating better things. Therefore they have given up the nonsense eating. So that is spiritual life. Spiritual life means activity purified.

Room Conversation with Mayor -- November 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: At least four khols you want to have. Four khols and sixteen men, that is party. Yes. And one leading singer and one dancer. That makes complete party. Twenty, twenty-two men. So where is Śyāmasundara?

Devotee: I didn't find him.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee: I didn't find him anywhere.

Prabhupāda: He is not here? Huh? Resting? (background discussion among devotees) He went to bed very late last night?

Devotee (2): (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Devotee (2): He was trying to finish the Māyāpur thing.

Prabhupāda: Oh, oh, that's all right. Let him remain. So you can speak some discussion from our books? You can see he is very great speaker, Viṣala prabhu.

Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) All of them work for this movement.

Dr. Singh: It is your power working through all of them, I am sure.

Śyāmasundara: In the beginning of this chapter (indistinct) you talked about men who lead (indistinct).

Dr. Singh: Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ (BG 3.21). That is (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: That is scientific. Our (indistinct) has gone to hell. How the people will come to (indistinct). They don't care for God, godless existence. (indistinct)

Dr. Singh: (indistinct) difficult to do, but in one's own way one tries. What a man is Śrī Caitanya.

Prabhupāda: I said that our government should give me facility (indistinct).

Dr. Singh: I know him very well. He's a very good friend of mine, Swami Raghunātha. (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: So why not (indistinct) what I have done? What fault I have?

Dr. Singh: Except that he keeps going round and round, and he lives in India.

Prabhupāda: Does he move better than me or less?

Dr. Singh: Much less, but he comes back to India all the time, he's based in India.

Prabhupāda: Because he has no followers. (laughter) (indistinct) give him place. I can stay anywhere. I have got so many houses. So these things are to be considered. What contribution he can give? And he is given all certificates, and I am not certified?

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1971, Delhi:

Devotee (2): By leading the Christian life.

Devotee (3): I mean when they go to him, what do they do?

Devotee (2): (indistinct)

Devotee (3): See the idea is that you could not remember perfectly 'cause the taste is gone, the līlā is death mostly. But it isn't death, the basics are there, but they're teaching death. And so any intelligent person says, "I want to go to Jesus, but then what do I do? If it is everlasting hell, then heaven must be also everlasting, but what do we do?" And if it's void, then it will not keep the people interested, therefore people are leaving religion.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is very good reason. There is no hope, better go to hell. (laughter) At least there is something. Never mind. Yes, hopelessness is not good.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1971, Delhi:

Devotee (4): I think if there is so much fear being preached in Christianity originally the Old Testament was the testament of the vengeful God and the New Testament was supposed to be the love of Christ. So if there is so much fear being preached it seems to be a reflection of individual consciousness more than the religion. They are preaching so much fear, it would seem to stem from their own activities, that maybe they do have this fear rather than the true reflection of the religion that Christ was teaching. He was supposedly (indistinct) to take up the sins of his disciples and to help them lead the nice life and lead them back. He said, he referred to them as his flock. So he was taking the role of a protector and yet the Christians you speak to, they talk about hanging you over hell by a thin thread that can be burnt away at any second. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Devotee: He said the Christians... (break)

Prabhupāda: But generally the Christians they are very much confident that all of our sinful actions they have been absorbed by Lord Jesus Christ so we can do anything.

Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they say the Christian religion is very good. Very good means that Lord Jesus Christ has taken contract for absorbing all their sins and they go on committing. Is that not idea in the Christian religion?

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Bob: I'll be getting married the end of this summer, in September or August, when I return to America. And the devotees say that the householders only have sex to conceive a child. And I cannot picture myself at all in such a position, and... What kind of sex life can one lead, living in the material world?

Prabhupāda: The Vedic principle is that one should avoid sex life altogether. The whole Vedic principle is to get liberation from this material bondage. And there are different attachments for this material enjoyment, out of which sex life is the source of topmost enjoyment. The Bhāgavata says that this material world... Puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī-bhāvam etam (SB 5.5.8). Means that a man is attached to woman and woman is attached to man. Not only human society, in animal society also. That attachment is the basic principle of material life. So, a woman is hankering or seeking after the association of a man, and a man is hankering or seeking the association of a woman. Just like we see the, all the fictions, novels, dramas, this cinema, or even ordinary advertisement, simply they depict the attachment between man and woman. Even in tailor's shop you'll find on the window some woman, some man. (break) So this attachment is already there.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Bob: I have a sweater here if you like.

Prabhupāda: No. So good karma means performance of the yajñas as they are prescribed in the Vedic literature. And this purpose of this yajña is to satisfy the Supreme Lord. Just like good citizen means one who satisfies the government. Law-abiding. Good citizen. Similarly, good karma means who satisfies Lord Viṣṇu, the Supreme Lord. Unfortunately, the modern civilization, they do not know what is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and what to speak of satisfying Him. They do not know. They are simply busy in material activities. Therefore, all of them are doing only bad karma, and therefore they are suffering. They are blind men and leading some other blind men. And both of them are expanding the path to hell by bad karma. Bad karma, you suffer. That is very easy to understand. If you do something criminal, you'll suffer. If you do something benevolent for the state, for the people, then you are rewarded, you are recognized, you are given title. Sometimes shot. This is good and bad karma. So... (microphone noise) ...some material happiness, and bad karma means you suffer from material distress. By good karma you get birth in good family, janma. You get riches, good money. Then you become learned scholar, you become beautiful also. Sit down. There is some trouble with your leg? What is that?

Devotee: There is an infection in this ankle.

Room Conversation -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: What is that? I could not...

Bhūrijana: The advancement of civilization is leading to just sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Material civilization means sense gratification. That's all.

Bhūrijana: So the hippies have this sense gratification and all the people who are working so hard, they are envious of them, and they use that for their advertising.

Prabhupāda: We say in our śāstras that this sense gratification facility is there to the hogs and dogs, better sense gratification. If you have to enjoy sex life, you'll have to find out some room. Either you go to a hotel or have your own apartment, otherwise you cannot have sex life on the street, although you are too much lusty. But you have to arrange for it. But the dogs and hogs, they have no such restriction. Immediately "Come on. Let us enjoy." So they are better, in better position for sense gratification.

Room Conversation with Maharishi Impersonalists -- April 7, 1972, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: So by the propaganda of Śaṅkarācārya the Buddhism were driven away. There are so many things that one has to study. So Lord Buddha, we accept him as the incarnation of God. And his name is mentioned in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata. And his business is also mentioned: sammohitaṁ sura-dviṣām. His business is to cheat the atheist class of men. That cheating is not cheating. It is for the good. Just like the father sometimes cheats the small child. You see? So that does not mean father is cheater. "Well, he has got some business to do that. That's all." So when I say Lord Buddha cheated, we don't mean that Lord Buddha was a cheater like ordinary man. No. He had to accept some means to lead them to God worship. He is God. So all the Buddhists... I have seen in Japan. Their temple is as good as Hindu temple. They have got Lord Buddha's statue. They offer lamps, and they sit down. They read Buddha philosophy. It is exactly Hindu temple.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They have taken that, all bags and baggages, that's all right. I am ready. What is that Cleveland?

Kīrtanānanda: That's, I think, Śrīla Prabhupāda, there's a group in Cleveland, Ohio.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Kīrtanānanda: There is a colored lady who is leading a group, and they're dressing in dhotīs and saris, and uh, they're doing some...

Prabhupāda: So you just train them.

Kīrtanānanda: They're doing some disturbance to the temple there. And they are here. They've come to New York.

Prabhupāda: Ah, so, what do they want?

Kīrtanānanda: They want to see you.

Prabhupāda: Why? He is not my student. So the GBC unders may see and do the needful. All affairs, how can I see everyone?

Kīrtanānanda: No. You..., I don't think you should.

Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:

Indian: Duty of the soul.

Prabhupāda: Huh? What is your duty? If I ask you, "What is your duty?" what is your answer?

Indian: Lead a good life, develop soul, and ah, be honest, sincere to people, and ah...

Prabhupāda: These are simply words, but you cannot say what is your duty.

Indian: Disciple, all this... (laughter)

Prabhupāda: So, why don't you do that? (laughter) That is duty, yes.

Indian: So we agree.

Prabhupāda: We are teaching that it is your..., this your duty. Our so-called material duties as we have done, "This is my duty," this is called dharma. But Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya: (BG 18.66) "You give up your all nonsense duty." (laughter) Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just like Śrīla Prabhupāda says, there are so many departments of knowledge in all the universities, but the most important department of knowledge, what is the purpose of human life, is left out.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...leaders. General public, they do no know, they are ignorant, blind. But the leaders are also blind. So blind leader leading other blind men, that means disaster. That is happening.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Most people, including scientists, they are not satisfied with the arrangement of nature.

Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say they are making all these things.

Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness. We cannot change the arrangement of the nature. That is not possible. What we have changed?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They want to be really happy, and so they say the...

Prabhupāda: No, you be happy, that is nice, because happiness is our position. According to Vedic civilization, every living entity is by nature should be happy. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). That is the nature, to become happy. But if you say that the arrangement of nature is not perfect, then you are fool.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Similarly, scientists, they do not know what is imperfection, and they are scientists.

Devotee (2): The thing about the blind leading the blind.

Prabhupāda: This is going on.

Jayatīrtha: Also, they aren't able to attract any new priests. In their seminaries, the enrollment has gone down to ten to fifteen percent of what it was previously.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jayatīrtha: The enrollment has gone down to ten to fifteen percent of what it was previously.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jayatīrtha: They can't get anyone to come and join their seminaries because they aren't teaching anything, just (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: What they will teach, what do they know? First of all you must know, then you will teach. You are rascal, what you will teach? That is another cheating. He does not know anything, he is a teacher. People want it. Just like these rascals are advertising, these gurus, they say "You haven't got to chant. You simply come to Guru Mahārāja." That means these people, because we have got so many restrictions, he has to chant, he has to follow, they think it is botheration. So that means immediately they want to be cheated. Therefore, another cheater is welcomed. They want to be cheated, so when a cheater comes, he is welcomed, "Oh, you are very nice. You are so simple, and this Swamiji is so strict." So they want to be cheated. Therefore God sends a cheater: "Go and cheat them."

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Very good idea. This is very nice.

Guest (2): So because we have so many in the prosecuting of their religions, there might be, the people between many religions (indistinct). So the government have to lead the people how (indistinct), to supply also, in the (indistinct) of their materials for readings, and facilities for their, prosecuting their religions. This is the actual (indistinct) department.

Prabhupāda: So this is the idea which I was explaining that...

Guest (2): (Indonesian) As a matter of fact, also that we are looking from the Hindu and Buddhist religions' point of view, how to get (indistinct) this department, especially because we are feeling of lacking of materials because no of our books actually here, written in ancient Indonesian language, which are translated from Sanskrit (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Ancient English...?

Guest (2): Ancient Indonesian language.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā.

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Religious idea without philosophy is sentiment, and philosophy without religion is mental speculation. They should be combined. Religious idea supported by philosophy. Then it is correct. And philosophy without religious idea is simply mental speculation. They should be combined. That combination of religious idea and philosophy, you'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā, provided you accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is. If you interpret Bhagavad-gītā in your own way, then you'll miss the point. Just like in our country, in India, Bhagavad-gītā has been interpreted in so different ways that people are now bewildered. They do not know what is actually Bhagavad-gītā. Take, for example... Just like in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, dharmakṣetre kurukṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). I think you know Sanskrit. Samavetā yuyutsavaḥ māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāś caiva kim akurvata sañjaya (BG 1.1). Even a great leader, political leader, he has interpreted kurukṣetra as this body. So where is the dictionary where kurukṣetra means this body? But because he's a big political leader that gītā is going on. Kurukṣetra means this body. Pāṇḍava means the five senses. In this way (break) ...they cannot (indistinct) I may tell you frankly. Just like Mahatma Gandhi, he wanted to prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the battlefield, and how he can prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā? Then he has to drag some interpretation out of his own way. But because he's a big leader the people are misled. Similarly, all... at present moment in India the Bhagavad-gītā has becoming a plaything that anyone can interpret in his own way and do all nonsense. But I'll request you, because you are so much interested, and you have already approved Bhagavad-gītā, you have translated. Amongst the leading personalities, you try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is and spread it, it will have immediate effect.

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Scholar: Well, I think the Bhagavad-gītā also mentions that many ways lead to God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Many ways, that is all right. But the best way He suggests who comes back to Me. (chuckles) Many ways, there may be. You can go to hell, that is also another way. Therefore He says in the sixty-..., seven, sarva dharmān pari... "I have already suggested many ways. You give up, kick up all these ways. You simply surrender unto Me." That is the most confidential part of knowledge. So intelligent man should take it. And still if he likes many ways let him do that. Let him go to hell. Who can check it? Yānti deva vratā devān pitṟn yānti pitṛ... (BG 9.25). He has suggested. You can go to the higher planetary system, you can remain here, you can become cats, you can become dogs, you can become bhūta, ghost. You can become anything you like, but if you become mad-yājī, if you become a devotee of Me, then you come to me. Now it is up to..., our position to make choice whether he is going to be a ghost, or become, going to become the associates of Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- February 28, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: All over the world. It is called spiritual bankruptcy all over the world and leading men are thinking this catastrophe, and the only hope is Bhagavad-gītā. (indistinct) ...religion there is no science. There is no philosophy. Buddhist religion there is little (indistinct). Otherwise...

Devotee (1): They are bankrupt and we are billionaire in spiritual life. (pause) Tomorrow the professor of Sanskrit has made appointment, a lady from University of Indonesia. She speaks English very well also. (pause) I will go speak with them see if they can bring their altar. (offers obeisances) (break)

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Devotee (1): Yes. He's very nice. Actually he wants to become initiated but he can't chant. The only thing he doesn't chant rounds...

Prabhupāda: Why?

Devotee (1): He says that if I do that I can't do my business and he has many reasons.

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Brahmā: The blind leading the blind.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). All rascals, mūḍhāḥ. Our simple formula is: Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's a rascal. Never mind what he is. We immediately reject him, a rascal. Our simple formula. And actually they're rascals. They're talking like rascals, childish, that life came from matter. Prove it. That future. What is this? I am very rich man. And as soon as I ask you: "Give me some money." "Oh, yes, I'll give you in future." What is this?

Devotee: Bluff.

Brahmānanda: Sometimes when we ask someone to become a life member, they say: "Yes, sometime in future." We become very disappointed.

Prabhupāda: We shall make vigorous propaganda against all this rascalism. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Mūḍhāḥ. Challenge them.

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1973, Los Angeles:

Brahmānanda: The blind leading the blind.

Prabhupāda: That's all. They do not, he does not know what is future happiness. He does not know.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They don't want to admit that.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say they cannot do at the moment, but somebody will come up in future so they can show. But they don't want to admit...

Prabhupāda: So that's all right, but, at the present moment, you are rascal. Somebody when come, intelligent, that is another thing, but you are rascal. So why you are leading, cheating others? That is our protest, that you know that you are a rascal, and you are cheating others to become leader. That is our protest. Why should you cheat others? Mūḍhaḥ. If he says that: "How do you know that I am rascal?" Because you do not know God. Therefore you are rascal. Mūḍhaḥ. Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). If you are, would have known what is God, then you would have surrendered to Him. Then you are intelligent. But because you do not surrender, you do not know what is God, therefore you are a rascal. This is the definition of rascal. Jñānavān māṁ prapadyate. And intelligent means one who surrenders. He's intelligent. One who does not, he's rascal.

Morning Walk -- April 28, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The real knowledge...is taken away by ignorance.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then it says: andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). One blind man is claiming that: "I shall lead you, other blind men."

Brahmānanda: Into the pit.

Prabhupāda: That's all. (pause) And in Bhāgavata, in one word, finishes all... Kliśyamānānām. You'll have to work hard, avidyā kāma-karmabhiḥ, by your creating so many desires. By this process, you'll have to simply work hard. That's all. Because it is ignorance. You do not know what is the goal of life. So kāma-karmabhiḥ. You desire something: "Now we shall do like this." That means you create another problem. And you have to work very hard. That's all.

Morning Walk -- May 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Brahmānanda.: Blind leading the blind.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Anyway he has admitted, "I do not know." That is sufficient defeat for him. But they are shameless. In spite of being defeated, they won't admit that "I am defeated." Not gentlemen. Formerly between two learned scholars there will be argument. If one is defeated... Just like Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya. As soon as he became defeated, he became His disciple. That's all. That was the system. Not that we go on arguing for hours, and one is defeated; still, he remains the same. No. If you are defeated, then you must accept the other party as your master. That was the system. As soon as he said that I do not know, he should have become your disciple. That is the system. "If you do not know why you have come to teach me."

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Life, yes. They are searching after the original source. That is life, Kṛṣṇa, sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1), cause of all causes. So this is not theory; this is fact. Now we have to prove it. Then the whole program of these rascals' theory will be changed, and people will be happy. Because they are standing on a wrong theory, all their calculations are wrong, and people are suffering. The rascal Darwin's theory. So many, based on this foolish theory, wrong conception of life. So we have to challenge, protest. defeat. This will be our work. Our worshiping of Kṛṣṇa, that is our internal affair. The external affair—we need to establish this theory. Otherwise they'll be leading this society. Misleading. They are misleading, not leading, misleading. So we have to stop this misleading. Make program how to do it. Because it is truth, you will come triumphant. There is no doubt about it. It is truth. Now you have to know how to present the truth. That is your business. We are not presenting something theories, concocted by my brain. No. This is the fact. Rudimentarily we have got evidences, but it has to be presented by the modern ways. They are presenting some wrong principle by propaganda, and we cannot establish real principle by factual presentation? What is the difficulty?

Brahmānanda: Well, when we ask them, they say, "I do not know."

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: And one is known by the company he keeps.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kāranaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). The best friend will lead him to take birth in that family. He'll help him next birth because he'll always think of dog, so next birth, dog. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvam (BG 8.6). At the time of death, if you are attached to something then you'll think of it, and next birth is that.

Paramahaṁsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, if one's life is achieved by one's consciousness, how is it one cannot remember one's previous life?

Prabhupāda: Do you remember everything what you did last year or yesterday?

Paramahaṁsa: No, I don't.

Prabhupāda: So that is your nature. You forget.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says, "You fully surrender. I give you full protection." Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). He will give you full intelligence. (break) ...these facts in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That will be our great success when the scientific world will admit. Let them admit simply. Then our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will (be) great success. You simply admit, "Yes, there is God and mystic power." Then our movement is very successful. And that's a fact. Simply talking like a nonsense amongst the nonsense, that is not a very great credit. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). One blind man is leading other blind man. What is the value of such? They are all blind. And so long one remains blind and rascal, he does not accept God. This is the test. As soon as we see that he does not accept God, he is blind, rascal, fool, whatever you can call. Take it for granted, however, whatever he may be. He's a rascal. On this principle we can challenge so many big, big chemist, philosopher, whoever comes to us. We say, "You are demon." The other chemist came, you brought him, that Indian?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Hm. Chouri.(?)

Prabhupāda: Chouri. (laughing) So I told him that "You are a demon." But he was not angry. He admitted. And all his argument was refuted. Perhaps you remember.

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: They were not leaving Trafalgar Square. So it is a very nice movement, very serious movement. You are known to so many big, big men. Try to induce them to understand this serious movement. If leading takes something seriously, others follow.

David Wynne: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Yes. At the present moment, the world situation is not very good. And it will deteriorate more and more if they do not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness. When I speak "Kṛṣṇa," that means God.

David Wynne: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: What is your idea of God?

Conversation with Mr. Wadell -- July 10, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That is described in the Vedic literature: andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ: (SB 7.5.31) "A blind man is trying to lead other blind men."

Mr. Wadell: I suspect that that is as probably very near to the truth of human situation...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. What is the benefit? If I am blind and if there are hundreds of blind men, "All right, come on, I shall..."

Mr. Wadell: I think we are all partially blind.

Prabhupāda: No, then there is no question of knowledge. Somebody must be with eyes. He can give knowledge. That is our proposition. As soon as you say blind, there must be somebody with eyes. It is a relative term. It is a relative term. You cannot say, "all are blind." Then there is no question of blind and with men eyes. As soon as you accept blind man, you must accept the other side, man with eyes.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Intelligent, this is intelligent.

Guest (3): "...if there's a greater association." And that really led me to India, and say, "Well, in India I would have more of these spiritual things and more of that atmosphere, environment." And, well, you know, that particular incident really struck me.

Prabhupāda: No, you can attend here. You remain here.

Guest (3): And, you know, it was the first time she saw a sat-saṅga, first time in her life.

Prabhupāda: No, no, the wonderful thing is that this is a method of spiritual realization which attracts even a child. Unless one denies to be attracted, everyone is attracted. Even a child, even a dog. This is the... Therefore it is universal. Unless you deny to accept it, attraction is for everyone. If the child is innocent, he immediately exhibits his attraction.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Buddhist Monk (1): Yes, I know that. Of course, on this there's a difference of view between the orthodox Buddhists and that thinking. Because during the earlier days of Buddhist preaching there were certain differences of opinion. And the brāhmaṇa sections fell into various categories. Some of them were not very friendly, and others accepted quite a few of his, their teachings. And a third section, led by people like Sarikuta (?) and Munkali (?), Sanmukhala (?), they became followers as well. And, of course, so many things have been incorporated, kāma, krodha, lobha, kleśa, abhimāna. They are very similar to the teachings of the Buddha, and they are very progressive. Because lobha, lobha, lobha, lobha is at the root of our problems. (Sanskrit or Pali:) Tanhaya jayate soko, tanhaya jayate bhayak, tanhaya vipra mukta syat, nati soko ato bhayat. "Greed is the cause of suffering, greed is the cause of fear. Remove this greed: where is the suffering? Where is the fear?" And, of course, being tolerant and understanding, man being a bundle of habits and customs, we cannot eradicate all grief overnight. But certainly we can start reducing this greed. Reduce and reduce. And then that's the only way to purify the mind. And then ought show such a society where greed has been reduced will be relatively a peaceful society. Simple living, high thinking and high practice. That's the cornerstone of our philosophies. Multiplication of so many (indistinct), colonational output, flying to the moon and not going into one's mind, and producing these things and calling them (indistinct). What is...

Prabhupāda: Sometimes we find that peaceful living is visible even in animal society. Just like the cows. They're very peaceful. There are other animals, dogs and others. They fight. But hundreds and thousands of cows, they live very peacefully. Birds also... Just like the swans, they live very peacefully. So is that the highest goal of life, to live peacefully? Because that is also found in animal society. Is that the perfection of life?

Room Conversation with Sir Alistair Hardy -- July 21, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No... When we speak of Veda, Veda means knowledge. So knowledge means knowledge of God. Any scripture that gives knowledge of God, that is Vedas. Don't think that Vedas means that only the Sāma, Yajuḥ, Atharva. Those who are following the principles to give knowledge about God, that is Veda. Veda means knowledge. Vetti veda vido jñāne. Vid-dhātu is called veda, vetti. Jñāne when there is question of knowledge, these three forms are used: vetti, veda, vido, jñāne. Vinte vid vicaraṇe vidyate vid saptāyāṁ labhe vindati vindate. (?) This is the vid-dhātu description. So vid-dhātu means to know. So ultimate knowledge is to know God. That is real knowledge. Vedaiś ca sarvaiḥ. Sarvaiḥ, all kinds of Vedas. All kinds, sarvaiḥ. So Bible can be taken as Vedas because it is trying to give knowledge about God, maybe for a certain class of men. That is another thing. But the subject matter is how to know God. So that can be taken as also, as Vedas. Because ultimate knowledge is how to know God. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). So we accept Bible also as Vedas, but we simply say that they misinterpret the Biblical commandments. The Bible says, "Thou shalt not kill," and the Christian people are killing, maintaining slaughterhouse. What is this? This is my question. How they'll understand God if they are so much implicated in sinful activities? According to Vedas, there are four kinds of sinful activities: illicit sex, unnecessary killing of animals, intoxication and gambling. Yatra pāpaś catur-vidhaḥ. So God is purest. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). How one can approach God if he leads a sinful life? That is our propagation. You give up this sinful life. Then you'll be able to understand God. You follow Christianity or Mohammedanism or Buddhism. It doesn't matter. You give up this sinful life.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That chance is in the human form of life. So if people are not educated to this goal of life, that is not helping the country or the society or the human beings. If we simply engage them in the activities of animal life—how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex life, and how to defend, no more—then it is simply advancement of animal civilization. But those who are thinking good for all humanity, they should note this defect, that simply giving him nice food, nice shelter, nice sex facilities and nice defense, his problem of life is not solved. He should be given enlightenment about God consciousness. And if he is educated in that way, if he, by next life, he can go back to home, back to Godhead. This education is lacking. So we are trying in our small endeavor. But if leading personalities like you of the society, they try to understand this philosophy scientifically, critically, and take it seriously, they can, there will be great benefit for the human society. The program we have got, but we are not leading personalities. You are all leading personalities. At least in England. Lord... This group, House of Lords is there. It was always there. In previous days also. They were called amātyas. All leading men of the society, they used to give advice to the king. And brāhmaṇas also. I think the knighthood means that. What is the meaning of this knighthood? Eh? Personal advisors to the king?

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Lord Brockway: But there'll be too many today to be associates.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Now it has come to another platform. So anyway, the knights, they are respectable gentlemen of the society, leading men of the society. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for enlightening people to the right standard of understanding the goal of life. Because after this life, after this body is annihilated, we do not know what kind of body we are getting next. We must prepare. Just like you are elevated to the position of lordship. So you had to prepare yourself. Not that this lordship is offered to anyone and everyone. One who is qualified, he is offered this position. Similarly, we should know how we are becoming qualified for the next life. But that education is lacking. There is no such education. In the university or anywhere, nobody thinks, "What we are going to become next life?" But we should be prepared. If, after becoming Prime Minister in this life, or President, like Mr. Nixon, and again, by his activities, he's going to be another animal, oh, that is not very successful proposal. But there is such chance. Because after death, after giving up this body, we are completely under the grip of material nature.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Not only men, all living entities.

Lord Brockway: Oh, yes, I mean men in the human aspect. Men and women are the sons and daughters, the children of God. I would say two things about that, that I think that those who sincerely have that conviction can be inspired to serve the coming of the brotherhood of mankind, but in experience I would not limit it to those who have that experience. And I find in life that many people who do not have religious convictions at all have a humanist conception which leads them to be very active for peace in the world, a human brotherhood, compassion, and all those characteristics which you have described as the capacities of those who share your religion. And in life they will express that even if they have the deeper recognition which you have described. I think the third thing that I would say about what you have said is this: it may be, I do not know, that there is a form of life after death. I don't know. I think if there is, the best preparation for it is service to one's fellow human beings in our present life.

Prabhupāda: Yes, but one thing is...

Lord Brockway: Yes?

Prabhupāda: ...that whatever service you render, because this world is of three qualities, the service will be, of course, of three qualities: goodness, passion, and ignorance. These are described there.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: And ignorance. If we give service in ignorance, without knowing what is what, that kind of service may lead us to become punished. So we must know what kind of service we shall give. So real suffering of the society, human society, or any society you take, real suffering is, because the living entity has forgotten God, so he is being punished in different way by the material nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). So many ways. But everyone is being punished. At least, the three kinds... Why three kinds? That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā, that this is also punishment, repetition of birth and death. This is also punishment. Because we are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). We are spirit soul, we are eternal. So our, this constant change of body, birth and death, that is also punishment. Because nobody wants to die. Because he is eternal. How he'll like to die? He wants to keep his eternal position, but he, because he's criminal... Just like one man is condemned to die, murderer. So he has to die. But he wants to protect himself, placing himself in the court, "How to save? How to save?" So that is our natural tendency, that we do not want to die. Why? Because we are eternal. We have got the prerogative.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So my only appeal is that those who are leading men... Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ... Find this verse.

yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas

tat tad evetaro janaḥ

sa yat pramāṇaṁ kurute

lokas tad anuvartate

(BG 3.21)

Leading men, whatever they do, ordinary men, they'll be followed. Find out.

Pradyumna: "Whatever action is performed by a great man, common men follow in his footsteps, and whatever standards he sets by exemplary acts, all the world pursues."

Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore we are trying to make men like you interested. (Prabhupāda laughs)

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Lord Brockway: Yes. Well, what I was saying is I've never wanted to be in a government. I've never wanted to have power. I've had certain ideals that I wanted to serve, and just prepared to serve them.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Lord Brockway: ...wherever it led.

Prabhupāda: That every human being can do.

Lord Brockway: But as I see so many men and women who are regarded as ordinary men and women, and their heroism in life, their sacrifice in life, their service in life, makes me small compared with them, even if they are not known, and even if they are not thought to be great. And so I don't think to be great at all.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No big man thinks like that. He thinks always small.

Śyāmasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So that is natu... That is good. Big, big man. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He was lear... "I am fool number one." And the author of Caitanya-caritāmṛta, he says that "I am lower than the, a worm in the stool." So this is good attitude. Nobody... Sir Isaac Newton also used to say that "What knowledge I have got. I have simply collected..." They're... Every, every big man thinks like that. That is good attitude. But there is comparative study, that "Here is a big man, here is a common man." So our proposition is that it is a great science, great philosophy. So western countries, they are intelligent, especially the Britain, British people. They had very good opportunity. Still they have got opportunity. So my request is that let us study this philosophy and science and if possible introduce it in the human society. That is our proposal.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Lord Brockway: And therefore, therefore, it is not only the goodness of an individual which you want. You want, combined with the goodness of an individual, of an understanding of the causes...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Lord Brockway: ...which lead to hunger and poverty and war.

Prabhupāda: That...

Lord Brockway: It's only when you have those two things together...

Prabhupāda: Yes, we have got...

Lord Brockway: ...that you can bring about a solution.

Prabhupāda: Because people are godless at the present moment, they're suffering.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: The whole civilization is a plan of cheating others. That's all. And they're all sinful. According to our Vedic understanding, there are four things sinful, pillars of sinful life: illicit sex, unnecessary killing of animals, intoxication and gambling.

Mother: But you can lead a very happy life still, eating...

Prabhupāda: No. Our students are trained in that way.

Mother: There are a lot of very good people in the world.

Prabhupāda: Just see. You can see from your son. They can sit down anywhere. They can lie down. There is no artificial living. They are satisfied with nice foodstuff made from vegetable and milk. And chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, holy name of God.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Everybody is going to God?

Mother: Yes. Everybody who believes in God. Yes. And leads a good life, does their best in this world, and that is truth for me.

Prabhupāda: Then the question comes: What is the good life?

Jesuit Priest: Obeying the commandments of God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So if the commandment is "Thou shalt not kill," if somebody kills, so that is good life?

Jesuit Priest: No, no, no. Father, you're being a bit unfair. It isn't... Interpretation, "Thou shalt not kill," thou shalt not unjustly take away life. If a man walks in this afternoon through those bushes with a revolver, I have every right... I'm not saying I'm going to do it, but I have every right to defend myself against that unjust aggressor. And if I kill him...

Prabhupāda: Yes, you can, you can protect yourself...

Jesuit Priest: ...that is justified.

Mother: Yes.

Prabhupāda: ...from the aggressor, but when you kill innocent animal, what is the reason?

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: This is going on.

Dr. Inger: When I asked a group of priests at a meeting which was to celebrate the anniversary of a leading Catholic thinker, I.R. Shadder(?), I just asked him about the Sermon on the Mount, referring to similarities between the teachings of Sermon on the Mount and Hindu thought. He says, "You see, but the point is this, that the Sermon on the Mount is not meant for everybody. It is only meant for a very few. And therefore most of us, including the present company," he said, "cannot use it in everyday life." I said, "Do you mean it is only meant for monks?" He hesitated but said, "If you like, yes." But I said, "I imagined that this was meant for everyone and that anyone could follow it." And he said, "Well, it is too dangerous a teaching to give to everyone."

Prabhupāda: Just see. And therefore I say, "Cheater and cheated." Yes. Similarly, scientists also. Recently in Los Angeles, California University, one professor, a big scientist came. He's a Nobel Prize owner. He described, gave lecture. He has written one book, on which he has got Nobel Prize, Evolution of Chemicals. He wants to prove by chemical, combination of chemical, life has come into existence. That is his theory, like Darwin's theory, that life is from matter or chemical. So after hearing the lecture, there is a professor also, a student, yes. He is also Doctor of Chemistry. He is my disciple.

Room Conversation with Rosicrucians -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But suppose I want to enter. So you must give me some formula that "You have to do this like this." Otherwise how can I enter?

Yogeśvara: He says there are many different techniques, but ultimately they are really all the same because they lead to the same conclusion. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...those techniques? Let him say some of the techniques.

Yogeśvara: He says the first thing is that we have to awaken our internal consciousness which is ninety percent asleep.

Prabhupāda: So what is the process?

Yogeśvara: I don't care to talk about them here.

Prabhupāda: Then how can I accept it? I cannot enter into some vague thing.

Room Conversation with Officer Harry Edwards, the Village Policeman -- August 30, 1973, Bhaktivedanta Manor, London:

Śyāmasundara: Yeah. Well, two came around here once when we first moved in saying that Mrs. Ruffles had promised them that they could paint the place. And we thought it was a little suspicious the way they were talking. And we watched them. They were looking mostly at the lead, I think, in the glass. Finally, we told them to get off and not come back. But, a little suspicious of...

Harry: Umm. Yeah. This, if you do get them, let me know. 'Cause I'll soon warn them off.

Śyāmasundara: (laughs) Yeah.

Harry: I'll soon push them off. Unless, of course they want to come here as a visitor.

Revatīnandana: They do steal sometimes, eh?

Harry: Steal?

Revatīnandana: Yeah.

Harry: Oh yeah, they will do, oh yeah. They will do. Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Their profession is stealing.

Room Conversation with British Man -- August 31, 1973, London:

Guest (1): I have been seeking all my life, and I expect when I was about twenty-two I became a convert from Judaism to the Christian Church. And of recent years, as a result of a very serious illness, a heart attack, I began to get other experiences which took me right away from all this knowledge, but no wisdom. I gathered a lot of knowledge, to the extent that I was, well, I was getting nowhere. I knew all about God, but didn't know what He, who He was. I knew all about Him though. Then I was led to understand a lot of other things which did not come by reading. I couldn't tell you. They just came. Thoughts, from wherever they were, they came. So I am now currently at the stage where I acknowledge that the certainty of this world isn't worth knowing about.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): We've got to live here of course. It seems to me almost daily that the next processes in life are the much more interesting and exciting ones. But when I hear you speak of Bhagavad-gītā and so on, I know nothing about these people. So now where do I start?

Prabhupāda: You have to start from Bhagavad-gītā.

Room Conversation with British Man -- August 31, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No, universal things are also eternal. Everything, the nature. Nature is also eternal.

Guest (1): I see. Right, I'm beginning to understand that. Another thing I would like to know very much is that I feel, but have no proof, that I have experienced in my, in the things I do, which lead me to believe that my experiences based on a memory I don't understand which, which belongs to previous lifetimes. Now is that, a fa...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, previous life there was. Just like previously, you were a child. Previously, you were a boy. Previously you were a young man. So similarly, we had previous life. Previous life means not exactly in this body but another body. But I am eternal. I live either in this body or in another body. Just like I'm a person, I live in this apartment or any other apartment. The apartment may change, but the person who lives in the apartment, he does not change. Similarly, I am spirit soul. I am simply changing different apartments. But there is a life, because I am eternal, where I haven't got to change apartment. I get permanent residence.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, Dr. Suneson -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Yes, in Navadvīpa. I was, after my retirement from family, I was staying at Vṛndāvana. From 1956. Then in 1965 I came to America. So... Where is Haṁsadūta?

Paramahaṁsa: He's leading kīrtana downstairs, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. Then...? You can, you can lead. Or anyone can lead. (break) So you like this kīrtana?

Professor: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Professor: It's very unusual in Sweden.

Prabhupāda: So you are, you are a devotee. Kindly cooperate with us, and overflood Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You are educated. Your word will be accepted more than ours.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, Dr. Suneson -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Karl Marx.

Professor: But, of course, in Sweden, most people, they don't, they don't follow anybody. So it's... I mean...

Prabhupāda: No, they follow. At least, one follows himself. Is it not? "Don't follow anyone" means he follows himself. He has got a particular philosophy, and he's the leader.

Professor: Well, naturally, everybody has some kind of ideas, I mean, how to lead his life.

Prabhupāda: But that will not help us.

Professor: But, uh...

Prabhupāda: Unless we accept the real leader, a perfect personality who can give us perfect knowledge, there is no success. That is our philosophy.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: But we are concerned with the real life. We are consider, concerned with the real life. If you can produce one real life, a small ant, not human being, then I shall think that you are successful in your program. But that you cannot do. Why do you talk nonsense? Therefore you are cheating. Why should he say: "That I cannot say," if he's not confident. That means cheating. Everyone is doing that. He's not confident about his theory, and he's speaking long, long speech. And people are fools. They are hearing. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). One blind man is leading many blind man. What is the benefit? The leader has no eyes, and he's leading many blind men. What is the use?

Dr. Hauser: Hmm. Yes.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is nature's arrangement. And those who are rich... There are richer section when the rice was selling at three rupees per mound, and the richer section is still there when rice is selling, nine rupees a kilo. So they have no eyes because less intelligent. They cannot make equal. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Prakṛti, in the prakṛti there are three modes of material nature. They will be manifested. It is not possible to make everyone of the same standard, the standard must be different. So they are simply spoiling their time to make the whole society on the same status. The communists are trying, the others are trying. That is not possible. So one should not be disturbed with all these superficial low and high places. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says,

yaṁ hi na vyathayanty ete

puruṣaṁ puruṣarṣabha

sama-duḥkha-sukhaṁ dhīraṁ

so 'mṛtatvāya kalpate

One is not disturbed with this outwards happiness and distress, he's eligible to become immortal. Saḥ amṛtatvāya. How? (Hindi) Yaṁ hi... (break) ...amṛta, eternal. And that is perfection. And that is going back to home, back to Godhead. But they do not know what is the aim of life. Still, they are leaders. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31), leaders are blind, and they're leading blind men. Therefore there is always disaster, confusion.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1973, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What do they say now?

Guest (1): Well, you see, the modern scientific discoveries have led to the stage at which the science can no more say that religion is humbug. Now they say, "Well, we do not know. Honestly speaking, that is the position," they say.

Prabhupāda: That is good.

Guest (1): Yes. "We do not know. We know thus far and not beyond." So that's a great achievement. That's a great achievement.

Prabhupāda: No. At least, they should not teach because they do not know.

Room Conversation -- November 1, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: They do not know what is siddhi. What is perfection of life, they do not know. Neither they have information.

Brahmānanda: Simply they talk about it.

Prabhupāda: All foolish. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Blind man leading other blind men. There is no sense. Whole civilization. It is, this Kṛṣṇa con..., our movement is a challenge to everyone, a challenge, genuine challenge. After all, everyone wants happiness, but they do not know what is happiness. So you can make few puris and kittri. That's all.

Brahmānanda: Śrutakīrti! Prabhu.

Śrutakīrti: Pālikā is already cooking.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Brahmānanda: Puris, he said.

Prabhupāda: Cāpāṭi can also be...

Śrutakīrti: Puri or parāṭā, I think, would be...

Prabhupāda: Parāṭā can do.

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1973, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānas te 'pīṣa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Blind men leading other blind me, this is going on.

Guest: I was suggesting, we have got this, ah.... What you call that flower? (indistinct)

Devotee:: (indistinct)

Guest: No, no, what you call that (indistinct) that flower came?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guest: White flower, fragrant flower, it is called Parajit.

Devotee: Pārijāta.

Guest: Pārijāta.

Lady Guest: Pārijāta.

Guest: Pārijāta flower, no? We have got a plant. If you want for this you can have.

Prabhupāda: No, a Pārijāta plant is not here. It is not possible.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Then he has to accept something else. He has to accept something. He may accept Bible. They may not accept Bhagavad-gītā. They must accept Bible. But you have to, then you have to lead your life according to the version of the Bible. The version of the Bible is that "Thou shalt not kill." You are killing. Therefore you are not, not followers of Bible. You are rascal.

Karandhara: Well, their process is to discredit all scriptures so that they don't have to follow anything.

Prabhupāda: Then you are discredited. Who follows your version? If you discredit others' version, who follows your version? Who are you? If you don't accept other authority, and who is going to accept your authority? Why shall I? You cannot become authority, that "I don't accept any authority." I have to follow that? Then you become authority.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Bali Mardana: We have to be led by someone who can see.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise, if you led by another blind man, what is your benefit? Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). And our thankless task is... Just like a blind man going, falling into the ditch, we say, "No, no. Don't go there. You'll fall down." But he becomes angry, "Why you are instructing me?" That is our thankless task. We have to do it. How we can see that this blind man is going...? He'll immediately fall and die. How we can remain silent? We must have to say. That is our business, that "For want of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you are going to die. Take it. Be saved." But they do not like it.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Bali Mardana: So that means practically all the population.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That animal will become man, and he'll kill him. He'll become animal. This is karma-bandhana. Yajñārthe karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). Yajñārthe, in the yajña, sometimes there is recommendation of animal sacrifice. Except that, you are bound up. You will have to be killed.

Yaśomatīnandana: The meat-eating also leads to many other sinful activities too, right?

Prabhupāda: Yes, naturally. Meat-eating means he's demon, and demon means he'll act in so many ways, demonic way, and he'll be complicated, one after another.

Yaśomatīnandana: These humanists, Prabhupāda, may try to make some...

Prabhupāda: This is humanism. We are trying to save the human being from falling down. This is real humanism, if there is meaning of humanity. We are trying to save everyone, that "Don't fall down. Take full advantage of this human form of life and go back to home, back to Godhead. Be happy." This is humanity. Except this, all bogus, humbug. Except this, all bogus humbug.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: Devotees are beginning more and more, Śrīla Prabhupāda, under your instruction, to enter into politics. But the political leaders, they will claim, "Well you have no experience. How can you be qualified to...?"

Prabhupāda: No, we have got experience. If there is a good man, he'll do, he'll act very nice. That we have got experience. Just like if a man is honest, you can trust him. This is our experience. So similarly, if the leaders be good according to this standard, then the whole human society will be happy. This is our propaganda. We are not after the post, but we have to disclose this rascaldom, that "All these rascals, animals, fools, they are taking the post of leader, and you are suffering repeatedly, but you have no sense that 'How we can be happy with this Nixon and company's leadership?' " So therefore we want to disclose the fact, that's all. We have no ambition. Just like we are brāhmaṇas. We have nothing to do, but according to Vedic civilization, the brāhmaṇas guides the kṣatriyas how to rule. So our position is to reform the politicians. We are not going to compete with them, we have no business, neither we have time. But because people are suffering—we want everyone to be happy-therefore we want to reform these rascals. That is our goal. What we shall do taking part in politics? We have no business. But our real aim is how people will be happy. That is our real aim. So these rascals are leading, misleading. Therefore we want to check them. Is that all right? Is that all right?

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: Will this be possible, to reform these leaders, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Well, just like I came here alone to reform, to make God conscious, but gradually it is increasing. Although I had very little hope, but still now hopeful. So let us try for it. It is not that cent percent people, but if one, two men can understand, leading men, then the whole society will be benefited. It is not that mass people will be reformed. Just like we have received one letter from one Mr. Ford, Ford family, how much he is appreciating our movement. He has paid also. So it is our duty to do. But if one, two men comes out, comes forward, then it will be successful.

Yaśomatīnandana: That Ford boy is about to become a devotee, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he'll become devotee, just like George is becoming devotee. So if somebody comes in our touch and if he is sincere, he'll become devotee. Now this, I shall go this way?

Śrutakīrti: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, "I want their association, who is a devotee of Lord Gaurāṅga." It doesn't matter whether he lives in the forest or in the opulent city. It doesn't matter. He must be devotee. (break) Household life or in city life we should not be extravagant, unnecessarily eating, unnecessarily enjoying. No, that is not the... One man's food, another man's poison. We must know this philosophy. (break) ...and even we..., my health is not always going on nicely. Still, why I am trying? That is my ambition. I want to begin one revolution. Their godless civilization..., against godless civilization. That is my ambition. The America will be the best person to be educated in this line and to lead, to become the leaders. They're already leader, but they must be real leader now, so that the whole world may be happy. That I can give direction. If the topmost American gentlemen come to me, I can give them direction how they can become the world leader. Actual leader. Actual leader, not bogus leader. Because God has favored them, so many things. And this movement has been started from America. I started this movement from New York. So it should be taken very seriously by the government.

Morning Walk -- December 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is everywhere. Luxury leads to poverty. (break) ...a living man, but if you are actually interested, why don't you do it, organized way. Sentiment, it is good, but if you do not understand the science, sentiment may be for the time being. Sentiment is sentiment. That will not act. They are admitting sinful activities?

Prajāpati: Yes, they are admitting that... They are an abyss of moral decay.

Prabhupāda: So let them know what are the sinful activities. These are the sinful activities. Close all the slaughterhouses. Close all these illicit sex brothel houses, and close the liquor houses.

Morning Walk -- December 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: This basic thesis of the leading theologian in our country... He's saying that the poor people are closer to God and God is specifically looking on their cause more than anyone else. He's at Harvard University.

Prabhupāda: But the one thing is, who is poor? Admitting. We admit, of course, that God is specially interested with the fallen or degraded. But first thing is that who is fallen? Who is poor? That is to be ascertained.

Guest (1) (Indian man): But there is one more thing. I don't think God could be so partial that He would...

Prabhupāda: No, God cannot be partial.

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Too much, yes. Luxury leads to poverty. Too much luxury. Now it will deteriorate.

Nalinīkaṇṭha: I was reading in one of the books you translated that you said that as more people become Kṛṣṇa conscious, the mentality of all of the people in that area, they lose their desires for material enjoyment.

Prabhupāda: No. Material enjoyment, you enjoy, but not like cats and dogs. You enjoy material life like human being. That is our proposal. Not like cats and dogs. Is it not enjoyment when you sit down in the Deity room and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and read philosophy? It is not enjoyment?

Nalinīkaṇṭha: Yes, it is very nice.

Prabhupāda: So this is human enjoyment. And to go to the brothel and drink and fight and talk all nonsense, is that enjoyment?

Nalinīkaṇṭha: No.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 7, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Hm. You can give him the rough idea. That will be very nice propaganda, to select real leaders of the society. The... We are misled by rascal leaders. That is the difficulty, all rascals. If the society is led by real, learned scholars, then it will be nice. Qualified leaders. That is wanted. Leader means better qualified man to lead others. That is leader. Leader does not mean he is himself a fool and leading other fools. (break)

Bali Mardana: ...the poster could have a coupon for Bhagavad-gītā to find the real solution...

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Bali Mardana: So they can purchase?

Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā there are so many. They'll purchase another rascal's Bhagavad-gītā. Simply you make propaganda that what is real leadership. Then they will inquire and we shall reply. (break) ...so many things. So we may not create any disruption amongst our solidarity. Then things will not make progress. In a big machine, even one screw is slack, the machine stops. You know that? So we should not commit such mistake. "Don't care. It is a small screw." No. Even that small screw can stop the whole machine. (break) ...that we are on the platform of deathlessness. Then we can be careful about falling down. And this is a fact.

Morning Walk -- February 20, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...directly leads to Māyāvādī philosophy.

Prabhupāda: That is Māyāvādī.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Guest (4): (Hindi for couple sentences.)

Prabhupāda: He knows also.

Guest (4): I know also. He spoiled so many girls, you see.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have gone to him so many times in Calcutta.

Guest (4): (Hindi) This is the story of before ten or fifteen years old.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, and now he's at the head of that Gītā Press.

Prabhupāda: Hiralal.

Morning Walk -- March 17, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So do it! So don't speak. Now organize. Now there is no question of speaking. Practical. Everyone should take a leading part, and the saṅkīrtana nuisance should be started from Bombay. So Balavanta Prabhu, you are taking?

Balavanta: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes (break) ...assistants selected, so many sannyāsīs, and do it. You take the leaders.

Balavanta: Yes. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...idea.

Balavanta: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is intelligence. (break) And we shall pollute the whole world with this nuisance.

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Why, why, why? This is very dangerous. If I know that "I am blind," why should I ask other blind man, "All right you come behind me. I shall cross you the ocean." Why this cheating? You say that "I am blind man. You are also blind man. So I cannot guide you." That is sincerity. That is sincere. (break) ...very much bewildered all over the world due to this rascal philosophy, that a blind man leading other blind men. So they should be delivered from this gross ignorance. (break) ...say that we have got eyes, but we are being led by Kṛṣṇa, who has got real eyes. Therefore we are safe.

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Indian Man (1): So we must have spiritual eyes or something which is beyond our physical body. And so how why we are drowsing ourself and why we are just galloping in a different way? Because everybody says it is beyond...

Prabhupāda: No. Suppose you are blind. So you require the help of a man who has got eyes. So unless you are sure that "This man has got eyes," why should you take care of him? That is another ignorance. If I know the man who proposes to lead me, he is also blind, why shall I take his help?

Indian Man (1): But if he says, "I am also blind," but just trying to find out the way...

Prabhupāda: Yes, so find out the right way. Find out a man who has got the eyes.

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Indian Man (1): But generally, people, they don't go blindly. That is what the difficulty is. They want open their eyes, they want to have opened their mind, and still, they wanted to be Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Prabhupāda: No, no, if there is doubt, if there is doubt, why shall I accept a person who is doubtful? Why not accept a person who is without doubt? Kṛṣṇa is accepted the Supreme Personality of Godhead by all ācāryas. All ācāryas. So why not accept Kṛṣṇa? Why imitation Kṛṣṇa? This Kṛṣṇa, that Kṛṣṇa, dini-Kṛṣṇa. That is our protest. You accept Kṛṣṇa and be led by Him. The path is clear. (break) ...simply advertising that "You are searching after some leader. Take this leader, Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. "We have taken. You also take." We don't say anybody else, no. We are fools. We do not know if there is anybody. So we are fools. Let us remain like a fool like that and follow Kṛṣṇa. That's all. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We don't say that "I have got eyes, I have got full knowledge." No, we don't say that. Kṛṣṇa says. That's all. This is our version. We request that "You take Kṛṣṇa. You will be benefited." And actually it is being done. We don't present a false person. We present the real person, Kṛṣṇa. Now, if you are misfortunate, you cannot take, that is your business. That is your business.

Press Conference -- April 18, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So at the present moment, the godless civilization... Therefore the leaders, they do not know how to lead people so that they may become happy. It is the duty of the leader, government, father, teacher, gurus, to see that the subordinates are very, very happy. We find in the history of Mahābhārata that during the time of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira people were not suffering even from excessive heat or cold or any anxiety. So it is the duty of the leaders of the people and the government to see that the citizens are perfectly happy in their occupational duties and they are advancing in spiritual knowledge, because human life is not to live a polished animal life. That is not human life.

Press Conference -- April 18, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So everything, solution is there in the Bhagavad-gītā, and we are trying to spread this knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā all over the world, and people are accepting. Now we have started in America a political party, "In God We Trust." So they are doing very successfully. People are accepting. They are criticizing the so-called leaders. After Nixon, people are disgusted with the so-called leaders. So we are teaching them what kind of leaders should be selected. The king, the public leader, the brāhmaṇa, and... At least these three men, they should be free from the four kinds of sinful activities. If they are personally sinful, how they can lead other people? That is not possible. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). If a man is himself blind man, how he can lead other blind men? That is not... It is dangerous for both of them. So the leaders, the politicians, the king, the brāhmaṇa, they should be very much pure, without any sinful tinge of life. And the pillars of sinful life is illicit sex life and meat-eating and intoxication and gambling. Now, unfortunately, the leaders are teaching people how to enjoy illicit sex life, meat-eating and intoxication. Then how the society can be happy? It is not possible. If you become criminal or if you infect some disease, you must suffer. Similarly, in the material world there are three guṇas: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. So if you associate with sattva-guṇa, then you become enlightened. If you associate with rajo-guṇa, then you are, I mean to say, pushed through passion. And if you are in ignorance, then you do not know what is right and wrong. Kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye. The symptoms of rajo-guṇa is excessive lust and greediness. And sattva-guṇa, they are in knowledge.

Press Conference -- April 18, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Because you did not lead them, you did not teach them spiritual books. You allowed them to read Communist books.

Guest (5): Is it the failure of our spiritual leaders?

Prabhupāda: What is a spiritual leader? First of all we have to think..., if the businessman is not spiritual leader.

Guest (6): So you mean the lack of spiritual leadership has driven us to this state of affairs?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because there have been so many. Just like Bhagavad-gītā, it is standard book. The so-called spiritual leaders, they give different interpretation. Why different interpretation? One interpretation is there. Anyone can understand. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). It is plain thing, Kṛṣṇa says that "You always think of Me." Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. "You become My devotee, you just worship Me, offer your obeisance." And Dr. Radhakrishnan says, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa personally." What right he has got to say like that? Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava. Dr. Radhakrishnan says, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa." This is going on. Just see. He is scholar, he is a philosopher. Even Gandhi says that "There was no Kṛṣṇa; it is all mythology." Then? How people will learn it? If Kṛṣṇa becomes mythology, the Bhagavad-gītā becomes imagination and anyone can interpret in any way. Then where is the teaching?

Room Conversation -- April 26, 1974, Tirupati:

Satsvarūpa: He said, "You write in your books that your movement by Lord Caitanya is the..., as if it's the most exclusive thing." He said, "But actually, in India the Rāmānuja is a more prominent Vaiṣṇava sect." So, as I understand our claim, it's based on the fact that we worship Kṛṣṇa in a higher form, in Kṛṣṇaloka, and they worship Kṛṣṇa which leads to Vaikuṇṭha.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...quarter there is no cinema song. Bhaja gopālam. (there is music playing in background, recording of a boy or woman singing "bhaja gopāla")

Satsvarūpa: Śrīnivāsa (?) said every... (break) ...is controlled by the temple here. Even the government doesn't control.

Prabhupāda: This is all temple here around (indistinct). (break)

Satsvarūpa: ...prominence. (break)

Indian man: We came here yesterday. We went to the temple three times and just for a long...

Prabhupāda: Oh, very good.

Morning Walk -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Atreya Ṛṣi: ...a few enjoying very much. In the whole city, a lot of parks, a lot of amphitheaters and that is how they went to ruin.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Luxury leads to poverty. American luxury or European luxury leading to these hippies' poverty. Voluntarily they are accepting poverty. Opposite. Sometimes this side, sometimes that side. Pendulum.

Dhanañjaya: What is that? (loud noise from birds)

Prabhupāda: Cranes.

Dhanañjaya: Cranes?

Satsvarūpa: The zoo.

Dhanañjaya: Those are pelicans, with the big bag underneath. And there are some South American animals, llamas. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...fight with tiger and elephants?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Lions.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: It is my practical experience. Śyāmasundara had to waste at least two to three hours to secure rice, fruits. Only milk and butter could we get. And then we had to wait in the... They would not allow us to cook unless they had finished. This was the difficulty. Practically I have suffered. All their claims are bogus. The people are not happy there. The young men are not allowed to go outside the country. Just see. All freedom lost. All freedom lost. It is a government of terrorism, that's all. And whatever the Communists do, simply by terrorizing that's all. They have no gentleman's method. Terrorizing. (break) ...misleading other rascals that "You come this way; you will be happy." And the rascals are being misled. They are accepting. This is going on. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). The blind man is asking other blind men, "Come on, I shall cross you the street." But because he is rascal, he does not ask, "Sir, you are also blind. how will you lead us?" They cannot inquire. Or he does not know that "This man is asking me, who is willing to take the leadership, he is also blind." This blind man does not know, do not know. They do not know. This is going on.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: They like it because they are promising that "You will get this..." Politicians also, they are promising, "You take this ism. Your sense gratification will be easier." The same promise. This ism or that ism. This yogi, that yogi. But nobody knows what is actually happiness. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha (SB 7.5.31). They are trying to be happy by sense enjoyment, material body's enjoyment. Durāśayā. It is simply a hope which will never be fulfilled. Durāśayā. Āśayā means hope and dur means very difficult. It will not be possible. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. And they are being led by such rascal leaders, who are promising sense gratification. Because they are blind, another blind man comes and says that "You will be happy in this way. Come on this way. Your sense gratification will be very much easily satisfied. come on." "Yes. Very good leader." Adānta-gobhiḥ. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pi (SB 7.5.31). They forget that they are bound up by the stringent laws of nature. There is no freedom.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: Perhaps to make it clear for you, one of the natural results of this system is that a man that might be considered today impoverished, as you were mentioning for example some of the problems, a poor man, by our standards, is not necessarily poor if he is Kṛṣṇa conscious. For example, in the Vedic culture, we are learning that a man is considered to be wealthy if he simply has a small patch of land and a cow and God consciousness. Because his God consciousness will lead him to be satisfied by growing his own foods, taking milk from the cow. This is wealth, according to Vedic standards.

Prabhupāda: Therefore cow is specially recommended, go-rakṣya, because very important animal to the society. If those who are meat-eaters, they can eat the hogs and dogs, they can eat. The Vedic injunction is not prohibiting them. If you actually... Actually, a human being does not require to eat meat. He has got many other substitutes. But still, if he wants to eat, let him eat the less important animals. Just like dog, hog. From the social point of view it has no utility. But why killing cows? It is delivering such a nice nutritious food, milk. Not only milk. According to Vedic system, the cow is so important, even the urine, even the stool, of cow is important.

Morning Walk -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: There's a path that leads to the lake here.

Prabhupāda: Hmm? Eh?

Bhagavān: There's not enough room for everyone there.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Bhagavān: There's a small path, but it's not very big. We can continue around this way.

Bhagavān: (break) ... complicated solution to the problem.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No. These rascals, they do not know that our process is most difficult. Because as soon as ask them that "Give up meat-eating," it is very difficult task for them. And actually, it is very difficult for them. You see? That gentleman in Geneva, as long as I was talking about meat-eating, he became little disgusted.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: He said, "Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil, for Thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory for ever and ever."

Prabhupāda: Very nice prayer. Very nice prayer. (pause)

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: This is vandanam. Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Nitāi: Śrīla Prabhupāda, is there some gradual development in all those nine processes of devotional service, beginning from hearing?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgaḥ (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). This chanting and hearing should be in the association of devotees. First of all, one must have faith that chanting is good. Then he should chant in the society of the devotees. Then it will develop. He can chant anywhere. But if he chants along... Therefore saṅkīrtana. Bahubhir milita. Many devotees, chanting together, that is called saṅkīrtana. So one, our movement is saṅkīrtana movement, many devotees together would chant the holy name of God. Then it is very quickly successful. Just like a person who comes to our center in the association of the devotees, after few weeks, he also becomes devotee. Quickly. And there are many others, they are seeing that there is a group like this, but because they do not come, they do not understand. Therefore the quick development process is to execute devotional service in the association of devotees, sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83).

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: Śakuni.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Śakuni, yes. They're vultures, and their civilization is vulture-eater. The animal-eaters, they're like jackals, vultures, dogs. They're similar to these animals, the animal-eaters. It is not human food. Here is human food. Here is civilized food, human food. Let them learn it. Uncivilized, rudes, vultures, rākṣasas, and they're leaders. Therefore, I say all fourth-class men, they are leaders. Therefore the whole world is in chaotic condition. We require first-class men to lead. We are first-class men. Take our advice, and then everything will be all right. We are creating first-class men. What is the use of fourth-class men leading? All fourth-class men. If I say so frankly, people will be very angry. All fourth-class men. Basically, they're all fourth-class men. Now, these first, second, third-class men are described. So at the present moment, no one belongs to this qualification. Even they are not to the third-class men. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). Who is, who is protecting the cows? That is the third-class man's business.

Room Conversation with Monsieur Mesman, Chief of Law House of Paris -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Anyway. We welcome all, all learned men, or leading men, to understand this philosophy. And the book is... You show Bhagavad-gītā. And all other books also show him. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says, unfortunately, he doesn't read English.

Prabhupāda: Here is French. French language. (French)

Bhagavān: We have practical political philosophy.

Yogeśvara: He asks what are our political principles in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Do we have a program?

Prabhupāda: Our... We have not only political program, but we have got political, and economical, intellectual, and ordinary. We think... Just like in your body, there are four divisions: the head, the arms, the belly and the leg. So this is complete. Head is the most important division. If you cut your head, then everything finished. Therefore head must be there. Head means first-class intelligent men. And their qualification is stated... Find out, śamo damas titikṣā.

Room Conversation with Monsieur Mesman, Chief of Law House of Paris -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: He says "We say, 'They should be,' " which indicates that perhaps now we do not have that situation.

Prabhupāda: No. Practically none. That is the defect of the modern society, that there is no brain. Therefore the whole world is in chaotic condition. In your country also, it is famous for so many revolutions. And whole Europe is..., Russia and other countries, because there is no brain. So there is need of these qualified first-class men, to lead the human society. Then next class... The head is first class, and next class: arms, protector, administrator. Their qualification is stated...

Yogeśvara: Nitāi?

Prabhupāda: Teja... What is that?

Nitāi: It's uh...

Prabhupāda: Tejas. No?

Room Conversation with Monsieur Mesman, Chief of Law House of Paris -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Bhagavān: Prabhupāda has not just translated. He's given commentary, purport.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you can show the nature, translation, word-meaning. (French) Then I combine with reference to the modern society, how they can be applicable to the modern life. (French)

Yogeśvara: Have we interested any of the leading French citizens in our movement?

Prabhupāda: That I do not know, but many French men came to see me, and...

Yogeśvara: Last year, at Hotel De Ville.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yogeśvara: Last year, you were received by the Mayor at Hotel De Ville.

Prabhupāda: No, but in America we have reception from highly scholarly people, university heads, like that. Our books are being read in universities, colleges, and they're accepted in big, big libraries. Not only accepted what is published, but they have forward order for all the publications that will come. Yes? Hmmm. (someone comes in with a plate of prasādam)

Room Conversation with Monsieur Mesman, Chief of Law House of Paris -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So he can take the skin, he can take the hoof, he can take the horn, he can take the flesh, everything, whatever he likes. Because when it is dead, it is no more useful for us. So the others, who are interested with the skin, in the flesh, in the hoof, they can take it. And they get it free. Without any cost. Because after death, we don't want it. So this is our program. Let the cows live. We take sufficient milk. We are getting milk, one thousand pounds. One thousand pounds daily in our, one center, New Vrindaban, Virginia. So we are making various preparations from the milk, and they are very happy, and the cows are also happy. So this is one of our programs, to stop killing this important animal. And the flesh-eaters may wait a little until the cow dies. Then he gets the opportunity. Why there should be slaughterhouse maintained? As you are one of the leading citizens of Paris, we appeal to you to take up this consideration seriously. Why we should maintain slaughterhouse? If we want to eat the flesh, let us wait till the death. And there will be death. There is no doubt about it. So why they should maintain slaughterhouse? And this is most cruelty. A animal which is giving milk, so important foodstuff, and that is being killed, it does not suit any moral sense of any human being. On the contrary, according to Vedic system, there are seven mothers. And cow is accepted one of them. Because she gives milk, and we take her milk, therefore she's our mother. So this is our philosophy.

Room Conversation with Monsieur Mesman, Chief of Law House of Paris -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So put into action this proverb. So that is... You are one of the leading mayor. That is our appeal. What is unreasonableness in our proposal that so long the cow lives...? Cow, every cow gives milk. So it fulfills your proverb also. So under the circumstances, let the cows live peacefully, take milk and make this preparation of cow's milk, and when it is dead, free of charges. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says he will try to take to heart what you have told him today, and he thanks you for having received him.

Prabhupāda: So kindly do this service. Kṛṣṇa will bless you.

M. Mesman: Thank you. Thank you very much.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (end)

Morning Walk -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: They will free us. They will free us. Oh, that will never come. That will never come. Therefore they are called bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They are captivated by the external feature, and one who is leading them, he's also blind, and one who is following, he's also blind. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). They do not know that material laws are so strong that they are not free to do anything.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: They are thinking that the technology will free them.

Prabhupāda: Eh? No. No.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: The technology cannot...?

Prabhupāda: It will bind them.

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Pṛthu Putra: He doesn't agree if a man create or imagine a goal, he says, the real goal, the real things...

Prabhupāda: No, it is not imagination. That is another foolishness, to imagine a goal. If we imagine some goal, that is another rascaldom. We have to understand what is the goal of life from superior. Just like a child. He does not know what is the goal of life, but his parents know he must be educated. So goal has not to be imagined. Goal has to be understood from superior. So if the superior man is also blind, then he cannot lead other blind forward. If a blind man takes the position of superior, then he will lead these followers to the ditch only. That's all.

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: But God says, "Although there are many ways, you give them up. You take to this only. Surrender unto Me." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Their many ways means there are many kinds of men. So in the śāstra sometimes the attempt is to bring every one of them to bhakti-yoga.

Paramahaṁsa: But they argue that no matter, all ways, all paths lead to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Paramahaṁsa: They argue that all paths lead to Kṛṣṇa. So why is one better than another?

Prabhupāda: If you know that all paths leads to Kṛṣṇa, then why don't you take this path? Why you are going round about way? If somebody asks you, "Where is your nose?" What is the use of showing like this. (laughter) Show like this. If you know really nose. But you do not know. Therefore you are going like this.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatim. Their aim of life is God realization, but they do not know that. And why they do not know that? Bahir-artha-māninaḥ: "They are thinking by these external features of the material nature they will be happy." That is very quite visible in the western countries. They are thinking that by constructing big, big, high skyscraper building their civilization is advancing, or machine, or technology. But they do not know this is not the aim of life. Real aim of life—to understand God. And na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā (SB 7.5.31). Durāśayā means something, utopian hope, which will be never fulfilled. Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Piling up simply bricks and stone, they are thinking, "In this way we shall be happy." That is durāśayā. That is never to be fulfilled. And then how this society is being led? Andha. The leader is a blind man. The so-called scientists, technologists, philosophers, others, they do not know what is the aim of life. He is a blind man, and he is trying to lead other blind men. This is the position. So if a blind man tries to lead other blind men, what benefit they will get? Because they do not know what is the...

Professor Durckheim: They won't move at all.

Prabhupāda: No. Therefore they are being frustrated.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: And eating each other without complex.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they have problem. They are killing only. The human society, they should be advanced so much that even the birds, they have nothing to kill for their eating. They have got sufficient food. And we are advanced human being. We are killing for eating instead of God giving us so much food, enough food. And they are still puffed up with advanced civilization. They have not even human feeling. These poor cows, they are giving us milk, the most nutritious food, and we can prepare so many nice nutritious foodstuff. So let them live. And if I want to eat at all, let it die. Then we shall eat. Why kill it? So they have no common sense. And they are leading the sinful life; still, they are very much proud of their civilization. And they are suffering periodical wars, war number one, war number two, war number three. This number will increase. Not only... Without war, thousands of children are being killed within the womb. This is going on.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: Yes. One who takes lead, yes, sure.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So if for a small government, three bighās of land, you require a personal governor, and such a huge government, millions and millions of universes, how the governor, the Supreme Person, supreme executive, shall not be a person? What is the reason? Actually, at the present moment, people have given up to understand the science of God. That is the defect. They are thinking everything here. Here is advertisement, "Everything here. Come on. Here is a bottle. Here is the pack (peg?). Come on." Everything here. That is the defect. And we are preaching, "Everything is not there." "Everything is lost there," we are preaching. No intoxication. And the material world is preaching, "Everything is there." This is the difference. We are preaching, "Everything is here in Kṛṣṇa, in God." We have... There is a tendency here. Just see. They want to worship Deity. Even on the street side there is such thing. The tendency is to worship Deity, person. I have seen in Rome. In many small lanes, they have got this, yes. Personal worship. So the village men, they are all sleeping now?

Room Conversation with Bishop Kelly -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That is also stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam by... That is also statement of Prahlāda Mahārāja, this boy devotee. He says, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum: (SB 7.5.31) "These foolish people, they do not know, what is their actual self-interest." So he says, "They do not know the actual self-interest is approaching God. That is real self-interest. But they do not know it." Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā (SB 7.5.31). "They have made their plan wrongly to become happy in this material world." Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). Bahir-artha-māninaḥ means external: "They have taken the external energy, the material world, as very important. And the leaders also, the so-called leaders... They are being led. The leaders, they are blind, and they are leading some other blind men without knowing that they cannot be happy in that way because he is under strict, stringent laws of nature, material nature."

Morning Walk at Marina del Rey -- July 14, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So some of you show by practical example, guide them. Then others will...

Bali Mardana: One person who sees can lead thousands of blind men.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. Very good. (pause) (break) ...not for rain, eh? Simply for covering the sun, eh?

Jayatīrtha: Yes.

Kṛṣṇa-kānti: There's no yajña, so there's no sun.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Jayatīrtha: No rain, no sun.

Prabhupāda: No, in the Kali-yuga it will be like that. There will be cloud, even thunderbolt and lightning, but there will be no rain. That is stated.

Room Conversations -- September 11, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: "These rascals who have no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they have made huge arrangement simply for sex." Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). "I am thinking of these rascals, how they can be delivered from this fallen condition." So the Vaiṣṇava has no problem; he has got Kṛṣṇa. But he wants to preach to save these rascals. This is Vaiṣṇava's duty. But if he is fallen himself, how he can save others? That is not possible. Then it will be andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās (SB 7.5.31), one blind man is leading other blind men. What is that? They will all fall into ditch. Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore said, bharata-bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41), janma sārthaka kari': "First of all you be perfect, because you have got opportunity, and then do para-upakāra. Then go to other countries and deliver them." That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Not that you remain blind and go there. Just like all these rascal swamis and yogis, they are blind. They do not know what is spiritual life. Andhā yathāndhair. They are blind, and their talks are simply big, big talks, (indistinct). Here also, this Rakhanananda(?), he is speaking on Bhāgavata. He is a rascal, blind; he does not know what is Kṛṣṇa. He is misleading others. You have seen in Bombay that (indistinct) brought some pictures?

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1975, Hawaii:

Jayatīrtha: So the purpose of having the Society is to show the devotees how they can always be twenty-four hours engaged according to your instruction.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is helping one another. If I am deficient, by seeing your example I shall correct myself. This is the idea, not that a fool's paradise: all fools and join together. Not like that. There should be ideal life, at least the leaders, the president, the GBC. They will show the example, and they will follow. Then it is beneficial. And all of them are fools? Then it is fool's paradise. At least, in the blind association, at least if one man has got eyes, then he can lead all the blind men. But if all of them are blind, then it is fool's paradise. So somehow or other, we have got now a position. People likes us. So we should not spoil by personal sense gratification. That is my request. If we can maintain this institution rigidly according to the order, then many people will be benefited. By seeing our behavior, by character, they will become. Apani ācāri prabhu jīveri śikṣāya. The leader should be ideal.

Morning Walk Through the BBT Warehouse -- February 10, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Just see how demons they are becoming. What is this room?

Hṛdayānanda: This leads into the other rooms.

Rāmeśvara: These are offices. The first office is where Kirtirāja works. He is managing all the distribution for the libraries and colleges. Satsvarūpa's party sends in the orders, and they process them from here. They handle all the business from this part of the warehouse.

Prabhupāda: What is this?

Hṛdayānanda: That's Māyāpur, Lord Caitanya's birthplace.

Gurudāsa: Yogapīṭha.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's family. "Book Digest." They publish our books?

Kirtirāja: We are trying to arrange that now.

Morning Walk Through the BBT Warehouse -- February 10, 1975, Los Angeles:

Jayatīrtha: New Dvārakā is leading the society in child production.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice. But make them devotees. That is the real father and mother, who begets children and make him devotee. That is real father and mother. Otherwise cats and dogs. A Tulasī dāsa, he has written one poetry that "A son and the urine comes from the same way." Son... Son means it is born out of the semina. That also comes through the genital, and the urine also comes through the genital. So he is giving this example that "Putra and Mutra..." Mutra, means urine, and putra means son, comes from the same passage. So if the son is a devotee, then he's putra; otherwise he's mutra. (laughter) Otherwise he's urine. Very nice. Yes. Putra and mutra come from the same channel. If he's a devotee, then he's putra, otherwise he's mutra. (break) ...miseries are compared with the heat and cold. Mātrā sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ (BG 2.14). Śīta and uṣṇa. Uṣṇa means hot, and śīta means cold. They are pleasing and miserable in circumstances. Cold is very pleasing in the summer, and heat is very pleasing in winter. But same heat in summer is not pleasing, and same cold in winter, it is not pleasing. So what is the actual position of cold and heat? It is simply transforming as pleasure and pain according to circumstances. Otherwise it is neither painful, neither pleasing. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). (break) ...has given me hundreds of such places but His order is "You cannot stay." (laughter) I'll tell you one humorous story in this connection. It is a little long. I don't wish to divert your attention. Very interesting story. That is also mentioned in the Bhagavad..., aniketa. One may have many nice places to live; still, he should think that "I have no place to live." That is one of the spiritual items.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, other Guests and Disciples -- February 12, 1975, Mexico:

Guest (4): But is it possible to lead the life of a gṛhastha and at the same time think of that?

Prabhupāda: Well, Arjuna was gṛhastha and a king and a politician. If he could learn within half an hour the aim of life, then where is the difficulty for a gṛhastha? Arjuna was not a sannyāsī. So it was spoken to him only, and Kṛṣṇa selected that "You are the right person." So there is no question of gṛhastha, sannyāsī. The person must be right to understand.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: (translated into Spanish by Hṛdayānanda) At the present moment it is required that the leading men should understand the aims of life and introduce it in the society for the general benefit of the human society. In the present chaotic position of the society... Just like we see on the road, cars are running with great speed, this way and that way, but they do not know what is the aim of life. Ask any one of them that "What is the aim of life, and why you are running so speedily, and what is the business?" Everyone will say, "I have got business. I am going hurriedly." And if I ask, "What is that business?" "Business means to earn some money and maintain the family." that's all. So is it a fact that to earn some money and maintain the family or at night sleep or sex indulgence, is that the aim of life? So that is my submission to the heads of the cultural movement. Is that the cultural end, to sleep at night or sex indulgence and at night earn money and maintain the family? I am asking this question.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Professor: (translated into English by Hṛdayānanda) He says that he agrees that the goal of life is not that, but that from his childhood he's been trained in a certain way, and he has not been taught anything else, and how can he achieve a different way of life?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that we are teaching in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, how you can change it. Therefore we asking all leading men to understand this movement and join it. That is our request.

Professor: There is a question I would like to ask. I do know that it is not the aim of life just to every morning keep your family, go to bed and have sex. But it is part of life.

Prabhupāda: That I know also, everyone knows. But beyond that, there must be some aim of life.

Professor: But being so... I think that there is... There should be some kind of humbleness, the necessary humbleness.

Prabhupāda: No, humbleness is of course good qualification, but the humbleness you will find in animal also, very humble. If you cut his throat, he will not tell anything. So humbleness also, that is another thing, but what should be the aim of life? What is the actual aim of life? If we forget the aim of life and simply become humble like ass, is that very good qualification? The ass is very humble. You load upon it tons of loads. It will not protest. Very humble.

Room Conversation with Psychiatrist -- February 22, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. There are different medical men and difficult diagnoses, but the urgent case is: cure the driver, and then car will go on nicely. Unfortunately, modern civilization, they do not know what is the driver. And how he will keep him sane? He does not know what is the driver? He thinks the car is automatically going on. Just like child. A child sees the car is going automatically, but that's not a fact. There is a driver. So if our vision is childish, how we can solve the problems of life? I talked with big, big professor, Kotovsky, in Moscow. He said, "There is no driver." This is a big professor, and he is teaching others. So if the leading men of the world, they think there is no driver, the body is automatically going, then what is the fate of the civilization? (break) No, there are, similarly, capitalists, communists, "this-ists," "that-ists." Full of these rascals. So how the human civilization can be without problems? The leaders are rascals. How we can expect that it will go on without problem?

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: So you are also believing that life comes from matter? (laughter)

Guest (1): No, I don't think we think in those directions at all. We simply just conduct experiments, not knowing what they will lead to and try to describe whatever we see under the microscope. (indistinct) chemical matters that we use.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But I think you have assumed that Darwin's theory or theory of evolution is already there and even to study something intermediate, higher levels, evolution is all right but...

Prabhupāda: Basic means evolution.

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Devotee (1): We've been trying more and more, Śrīla Prabhupāda, to make our techniques of distribution more honest and straightforward, not to cheat so much as some of these methods in the past.

Prabhupāda: No, the thing is that Kṛṣṇa's service is so sublime that even if we cheat, you are not culprit. But because we have to deal with the worldly man, we have to go according to their rules and regulation on cheating. Otherwise, a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he never cheats. He never cheats. Whatever he does... Just like a mother says to his child, "My dear child, if you take this medicine, I will give you this lugloo." The child is diseased. He will not be able to digest lugloo, but the mother sometimes cheats him. And when he takes the medicine the lugloo is not delivered. Similarly, sometimes we have to say so many things very pleasing to him, but our business is that let him take this medicine. That is tactics. But that is not cheating. If the mother helps the child in drinking medicine and then afterwards she does not supply the lugloo, that is not cheating. Some way or other... That is the instruction of Rūpa Gosvāmī, yena tena prakāreṇa manaḥ kṛṣṇe niveṣayet: "Somehow or other, let everyone be Kṛṣṇa conscious." There is no question of vidhi-niṣedhā. Sarve vidhi-niṣedhā syur etayor eva kiṅkarāḥ. The other rules and regulation will act as servant, but the main business is to bring one to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the main business. We are not meant for cheating anyone. We have no business. But to lead one to Kṛṣṇa consciousness we may say something sometimes. So that is not cheating.

Morning Walk -- March 11, 1975, London:

Devotee (2): Even if we present a Kṛṣṇa conscious candidate, the people will still choose a rogue to lead them, even if we present a candidate who is Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Prabhupāda: Canada we have got already temples.

Brahmānanda: Candidate, someone to stand for the election.

Prabhupāda: You cannot do anything. Unless you turn the mass of people Kṛṣṇa conscious, what you will do there? Suppose one man is elected. All demons. What he will do there? Therefore the first thing is that turn the people Kṛṣṇa conscious, and when they will vote, that is shortened (certain?) Otherwise, it is waste of time. (end)

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- March 13, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: So do that. Don't approach the cheater guru, bluffer guru, and be cheated. Stop this business. This has spoiled the whole spiritual atmosphere of the world. Take guru, the supreme guru, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, when in Mahābhārata when Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira performed rājasūya yajña, in the rājasūya yajña one person is elected the chief guest. So in that yajña many big, big demigods were present, and Bhīṣmadeva was present, Vyāsadeva was present, and many, many other saintly person, brāhmaṇa, from the whole universe were present. And Kṛṣṇa was decided to be accepted as the... Everyone agreed to accept Him as the chief guest. And the Śiśupāla, he protested. Then everyone was angry to kill him. So Kṛṣṇa is accepted the guru by everyone. By our ācāryas, recent ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya... I am not speaking of the loafer class, but those who are recognized ācāryas, Śaṅkarācārya... They accepted Kṛṣṇa as the supreme guru. Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So accept Kṛṣṇa as the supreme guru and follow His instruction and try to convince others. "Others" means even your family members. That is success of life. Saṁsiddhiḥ hari-toṣaṇam. Why should you lead your life blindly? This human life is meant for enlightenment, supreme enlightenment, and this is supreme enlightenment, to understand the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā and preach it as far as you can. If not, you can preach amongst your family members. This is perfection of life. What is that verse? Ya imaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati. That is the desire of Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Hmm. You have got a branch here?

Young man: I have been here for about three months. I am trying to lead the practices and the sādhana of the people here and trying to set up a unit here.

Prabhupāda: So you follow Vedic principle?

Young man: We follow Tantric principle.

Prabhupāda: Tantric. Tantra, there are two kinds of tantras, sattvata, and there are sattvic, rajasic, anything. So your activity is on the material platform or spiritual?

Young man: It's actually... Our motive is, our objective is ātmā mokṣa (Sanskrit).

Prabhupāda: Ātmā...?

Young man: (Sanskrit). Self-realization and selfless service to humanity. So that's our principles. That's the objective of Ananda-mārga philosophy. So that's a subjective approach to objective adjustment, both, side by side.

Prabhupāda: What is that ānanda?

Young man: Ānanda means bliss, infinite happiness.

Prabhupāda: Infinite. But what is the platform of that ānanda, material or spiritual?

Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) ...movement, (Bengali) bogus religious, it is scientific. You can question; I will understand. (break) They do not know what is the meaning of life. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Another blind leader, so-called leader, he is blind himself. He does not know how to lead people. And the followers, followers are also blind. So what will be the result? They are bound up... Suppose if I tightly wrap your eyes, and all of them are done so, then how you will lead them?

Guest: Blind leaders and blind followers?

Prabhupāda: Then they are controlled by the laws of material nature, and they want to be happy independently. This is rascaldom. If I am controlling you and you want to become happy independently, how it is possible? You must get out of the control first of all. Your eyes should be open. Then you can do something independently. But you are under my control fully, and I have wrapped up your eyes with very thick layer of cloth, and then how you can become independent, work. That they do not know. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). This māyā, this energy, is very, very strong. You cannot get out of it. Then what is the way? Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so important. If one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then immediately he gets out of the control of māyā. That is the sign. Otherwise, if I remain a blind man, how can I lead others? Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore said, janma sārthaka kari kāra para-upakāra (CC Adi 9.41). You are very busy doing good to others, but first of all make your life perfect.

Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: Being Kṛṣṇa conscious, everyone is blind. And they are trying to lead other blind men. So what will be the result? All of them will fall down on the ditch.

Guest: And they attempt to lead others...

Prabhupāda: Blind men. Therefore this fact is summarized in the Bhagavad-gītā in the words,

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

māyayāpahṛta jñānā

āsuri-bhāvam āśritāḥ

(BG 7.15)

Because they have denied the existence of God, therefore they are blind and they are engaged in sinful activities without knowing what is going to happen next in his life. Therefore mūḍha, rascal. And narādhamāḥ. Narādhamāḥ means lowest of the mankind, because in the human form of life one could understand what is God, but he is misusing his intelligence for something else, narādhamāḥ. But if you say, "They are educated. They have got so much education. Why do you condemn them?" then the answer is māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. This so-called knowledge they have acquired, that means māyā has made them more foolish.

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1975, Mayapur:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes the argument is put forward that in places where's there is not sufficient food and shelter and things like this, these problems should be solved first before the problem of spiritual life.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why don't you solve? There are so many land. Come here and grow food. Grow fruit. That is... That is the desire of Kṛṣṇa. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Produce food and eat in sufficiently, be strong, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is our philosophy. Why you are producing bolts and nuts, tire and tubes? Eat. Rascal. They do not know that first of all you must eat. No, everyone is engaged in industry. Why? Kṛṣṇa does not say that "Take to industry." Kṛṣṇa says, "Produce foodstuff." Annād bhavanti bhūtāni. If you produce foodstuff, then both your animals, yourself, will be happy, becoming strong. Why do they manufacture other things? All these people are engaged in manufacturing, and nobody is manu..., er, growing food. Therefore the price of food grain is rising. Suppose I am growing food, and you are not growing, so you have to purchase from me. I'll ask, "You have to pay this price." And you have to pay. And if you grow your own food, there is no such question. The simple economic problem, solution, this rascal cannot take. If you grow your own food, I grow my own, then who is going to purchase? The price will be reduced automatically. If you have no customer, then you have to reduce your price. But they do not understand even the simple thing that "God has given us enough land to produce food grain, and we must eat." They do not understand this. And still, they are scientist, philosopher, politician. Just see. That is the difficulty. All rascals, fools, they are leading the whole human society.

Morning Walk -- April 6, 1975, Mayapur:

Pañcadraviḍa: There's something they put on the plastic so you can now eat it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like the Germans, they extracted fat from stool. And that was used as butter. This is scientific. They'll have to eat stool even. They have eaten. In the last war, concentration camp, they have eaten their own stool. There was no food. So nature will punish them in that way. They'll eat everything. This godless civilization will lead people to such condition of life. Kadharya bhakṣaṇa kare, tara janma adho pate yaya. This life they will eat everything, all nonsense thing, and next life they become pig, cats, dogs. That's all. This will be.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes. All these Paris big men, they go to see the vagina at night, purchasing ticket fifty dollars. All big, big men. In Paris there are so many clubs.

Devotee: The Lido.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Devotee: Lido is the leading nightclub in Paris.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (All start laughing.) Is it?

Devotee: No, no, I have not been there. I don't know. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Well you know such clubs are there.

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1975, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And now that you are saying, many people are stopping.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Somebody, they act... Just like illicit sex. They did not know that it is sinful. Now they are understanding. There was no good leader. Even the priests. In the Bible it is said, "Thou shalt not kill." The priests never said, because they are meat-eaters. They themselves are meat-eaters. How they can say? "It is our tradition to eat meat." But how the common man will be educated? (break) You can give me the general prasāda today. I will taste. (test?) (break) When one becomes rich, he becomes lazy. What is called? "Leads to poverty"? Luxury. "Luxury leads to poverty." So at one time one become very rich by hard work, and next generation gets the money for nothing, he spends it on luxuries, and the third generation, poor. There are many families, in everywhere. In England, all these English men, in the beginning they worked very hard, expanding their empire and working. Then gradually, when they became Lord family, then luxury. Now they are poverty-stricken.

Evening Discussion -- May 6, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Paramahaṁsa: They were very popular. They would travel around and do performances, and thousands of people would come. He had quite a big group of musicians, and he was the leader. He would lead the whole group. He would play the trumpet and sometimes dance.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Then, Ravi Shankar is no more popular?

Paramahaṁsa: Most people think he's too puffed up.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise how they say he's God? Then? You can stop. Those who are tired can take rest. What is the local time?

Amogha: 8:30

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Gaṇeśa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the material scientists are so inquisitive, yet they are leading lives like cats and dogs, how can they come to...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, because they are wrongly directed. You are inquiring me, "Sir I want to such and such place." If that place is this way, if I say you go this way. You go this way. Then you'll be baffled, and you'll be unhappy. Wrong direction.

Paramahaṁsa: But we are taking some direction from...

Prabhupāda: That's alright, but if you take wrong direction you'll be unhappy. Your destination will not be (reached).

Gaṇeśa: So how can the scientists arrive at vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19)?

Prabhupāda: For that he has to take direction from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says the destination Himself. He comes and says, "Here is, I am the destination, come here." But if you don't take, that is your misfortune. The direction is here. The perfect director is there, but he's unfortunate—he does not accept this. Therefore he is baffled. We are... Our propaganda is therefore, that you rascals, all blind leaders, rascals, don't try to lead. Take Kṛṣṇa's instruction and lead. Then you'll be perfect. This is our propaganda. Leading must be there, direction must be there, but the direction and leading must be perfect, then (indistinct). Or enquiries must be there but if the answers or the leading is bad, then you have to (indistinct). So we should make our enquiry to Kṛṣṇa, and take His direction.

Room Conversation with Kim Cornish -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Drugs? That is another side of madness. Just like, human being, after the evolution of 8 million forms of bodies, he comes to human body to understand philosophy, these Vedas. So instead of utilizing life for that purpose, he wants to become again like the cats and dogs, and therefore he takes drugs. He is already cat and dog. He's no better than cats and dogs, because he has no interest in this knowledge. He was meant for this knowledge but he remains like cats and dogs, therefore he is not satisfied, therefore he takes drugs to forget himself. This is the philosophy of drugs. He was meant for becoming satisfied by taking this knowledge. He does not get the chance. Nobody leads him to this knowledge. He remains like cats and dogs, but as a human being if he lives like cats and dogs, he'll never be happy. Because there is no happiness, therefore he takes drugs, to forget. This is the drug philosophy. Drug philosophy means to forget one's present suffering. He must suffer, because his consciousness is developed. He must take this Vedic knowledge, but he does not take. Therefore he is dissatisfied, and to counteract the dissatisfaction he takes drugs. This is drug philosophy.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: If you cannot adjust, how you are wasting your time in the science, anthropology? It is a false science.

Carol: I'm waiting to be led into something which is good.

Prabhupāda: There is no meaning.

Carol: Yes. You can only decide in...

Prabhupāda: The whole theory, Darwin's theory, is a false theory. It has no sound background. He says it is theory. Theory is not science. I can propose some theory, "It is like that." But that is not science. Science means observation and experiment. That is science. You observe how the rules are working, and when you practically bring them into experiment, then it is science. If you simply theorize, that is not science. Mental speculation. It has no benefit. You can speculate, constructing a castle in the air. That is not a very good thing. You should present something which will benefit the people, and practical. That is science.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Nature will force you that after forty years of age you must become old, and you must not remain so beautiful. This is forced. But no one wants that. No woman wants that "I shall look not beautiful and my flesh should be flabby and no more luster. I don't want all these things." Why it is forced?

Carol: Suffering and pain leads people to God, doesn't it?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Amogha: She says doesn't the suffering and pain lead people towards God?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the law, but we are so dull-headed that we do not enquire. That is my statement, that you should enquire "Who is forcing these things?" Then there is enquiry of God. First of all we must be... Just like a dog. He cannot understand. He's under chain. He's leading a life most dependent. And he is jolly. He is jumping here and there. That is dog's life. If the master kills him, he cannot do anything. But he is very jolly. He is jumping. That is dog's life. But not human life. Human life is that I am dependent in every step, still I am declaring independent. What is this nonsense? This enquiry should be there. He is dependent in every step, exactly like the cats and dogs, but he is claiming, "I am independent."

Morning Walk -- May 11, 1975, Perth:

Devotee (1): It leads to the beach.

Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the Bhagavad-gītā it says that happiness in the mode of goodness is in the beginning is like poison but at the end it is like nectar. Where does the poison end and where does the sweetness begin?

Prabhupāda: Sweetness? That is false sweetness. Just like sexual intercourse. This is sweet, but aftereffect is very poisonous. Either illicit or legal, the aftereffect is very... You have to take care of the children, the child is diseased, go to the doctor and this, that, so many, maintenance... And illicit—then this charge of rape case and so many other things. So both of them, in the beginning it is very happy, but at the end it is very distressing. That is material happiness. Everyone knows it, that it is distasteful. But still, he does that. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpanāḥ bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ (SB 7.9.45). Therefore this kṛpanāḥ... Kṛpanāḥ means miser or foolish person.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: This artificial way of life will lead to such disasters. It is a most artificial way of life. It is not natural way. This bus goes this way—I see every day vacant, no passenger. And still, they have to run as scheduled. They cannot stop it. That means so much wastage. Not only bus, I have seen aeroplane. From Nairobi to London, you have seen? We were five passengers or four passengers. No passengers.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: That is natural. That is natural. It is good. But they are not led by good leader. Otherwise next alternative is this, that you have to give up this artificial way of civilization. Now this land is vacant. We can produce so much food grains if it is utilized. Fruits, flower, vegetables, grains—we can produce. This land is very good land for producing potato, watermelon, this. Very good land. But who is doing that? This is the suitable land for producing watermelon. And watermelon is such a nice thing, and potato. You boil potato and take watermelon, you have full nourishment are supplied. Very innocent and simple food.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Another rascal. That is the difficulty. The world is full of rascals and demons. And they are leaders. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). "A blind man is leading other blind men."

Devotee (1): Instead of using the land to grow potatoes and watermelons, they're simply using it to build more offices for tables and chairs to study the situation.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. (pause) Life will be more more dangerous in this Kali-yuga. People will starve. And they... It is already began. The hippies are going to the forest. This will be the whole world situation. Everything will be chaotic.

Amogha: But if they actually go to the forest, then that will be one step.

Prabhupāda: No, it is disappointment. It is simply disappoint... That is not solution. But people will do that. When the one is mad he doesn't know what to do—"Let me go to the forest." Achinna dāra-draviṇaṁ gacchanti giri-kānanam, it is said. Giri means mountain, and kānanam means forest. Giving up their hearth and home... They are already giving up the home, wife, children, and going away. Everybody doing that.

Discussion -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: No...

Paramahaṁsa: As he walked out the door he said, "Now I have to go back and lead my fourth-class life." (laughter)

Amogha: Yes, he said that.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) Then he has understood. Yes, it is all fourth-class men. He is considered a first-class man in the society. We say to him that "You are a fourth-class man." On what strength we can say like that? And he has to admit. That is our philosophy. Any first-class man, so-called first-class man, we can also say that "You are a fourth-class man," and he will agree. And if he admits, then he becomes first-class man. Then he can make progress. "I am living, a fourth-class man. I must be a first-class man." That is knowledge. So he was asking you, "Are you living first-class now?"

Amogha: Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: He did not.

Amogha: But He led the fight.

Prabhupāda: He was chariot driver at the risk of being killed. The other party may kill the chariot driver to stop the progress of the enemy. They kill. They kill the horses, they kill the charioteer, then the person. So Kṛṣṇa took the risk of being killed. Bhīṣma attacked Him. He pierced His body with arrows.

Devotee (1): I think the tribes in South America, the Aztecs, they were also worshipers of the sun-god.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Jesuit: What is it all leading to? A state of liberation from material things?

Prabhupāda: Yes, there are two... Now in the human form of life, we have got two selection, I think in the Bible also it is said that one goes to hell, one goes to heaven. So we have got two selection, either to the path of hellish condition or to the path of back to home, back to Godhead. This is human life. It is in Sanskrit word it is called pravṛtti-mārga, nivṛtti-mārga. Nivṛtti-mārga means stopping the material way of life and go to the spiritual world, back to home, back to Godhead.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Dr. Copeland: And you're training them to lead?

Prabhupāda: Yes, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa will supply everything. Be confident. This is brāhmaṇa. We don't depend. You see for the last ten years our institution going on. We don't depend on anyone else. If you contribute voluntarily, welcome, but we are not dependent on you. This is brahminical class of man. We don't... Find this: śamo damas tapaḥ śaucam. What are they? Śamaḥ?

Amogha: Śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca (BG 18.42). You want me to read each word, translate?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. When you are trying to be a lawyer or barrister, that does not mean you are barrister. When you are a student of law you cannot say that "I am barrister," or "advocate," that you cannot say. You are trying to be, that is another thing. But while they are trying to be, they are taking the position of leader. That is the misleading. That is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). "One blind man is trying to lead many other blind men." What is the use of such leading? If the leader is blind, how he will do well to other blind men?

Guest 3: Beethoven was deaf.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Guest 3: Beethoven was deaf.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Madhudviṣa: Beethoven, the great composer, he was deaf.

Guest 3: At least, for part of his life.

Guest 1: But can't you have people doing good for the sake of goodness?

Prabhupāda: But he does not know what is good.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Guest 2: Would you say that the lawyer can do good whether or not he believes in God?

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. I am saying that if you are not a lawyer, if you have no study of the law, how can you do good?

Guest 2: Well, that's what I was putting. I was hoping to lead you from there to the other situation of no studying or specific training.

Madhudviṣa: No. Śrīla Prabhupāda was saying that you could help us legally because you knew the law. If you weren't a lawyer, then you couldn't have helped us legally. Right?

Guest 2: I see, I see what you mean, yes.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Guest 1: No, I think that particular situation where he helped the lady across the road...

Prabhupāda: No, particular situation is different. But generally if we do not know what is the ultimate goal, then we misguide. That is the point. So either in society or politics or economics or religion, philosophy, culture—everyone is engaged in some department. But if that leader does not know what is the ultimate goal of life, how he will lead? That is given direction in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in two verses. One verse is: idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā (SB 1.5.22). Find out this verse. It is in the First Canto. Who can...? Where is? First of all find out this verse.

idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā

sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ

avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito

yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam

(SB 1.5.22)

Morning Walk -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:

Amogha: They want to be well.

Prabhupāda: Yes, then "well" means they want to save themself from death. That means they want not to die. But death is there. Then where is the solution of problem? But they have no brain to think that "What these rascals will do? My problem is there. It is not solved." And still they accept. Therefore in the Bhāgavata it is said, śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). They are eulogized, they are praised, glorified, by another animal. He is an animal, big animal, and a small animal says, "Oh, you are our leader." The big animal is praised by the small animal. Both of them are animals. None of them are human being. So this is going on. A big animal bluffs him that "I have done so much for you. You give me vote." That's all. And the small animal thinks, "Yes, he has done so much. Give him vote." This is going on. Andhā yathāndhaiḥ. Everything is discussed in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that one blind man is leading other blind men. What is the use?

Hm? If I am blind man, if I say, "Come behind me. I shall take to St. Kilda," and as soon as I go in the road, you are killed, I am killed, that's all. That is going on.

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: That is the way of falsehood. If once you speak something false, then to protect that falsehood you have to take to so many other falsehoods. This is the way of falsehood.

Paramahaṁsa: One lie leads to another.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...are going to Venus, Americans and Russians combined together?

Ambarīṣa: This summer.

Prabhupāda: Oh, in the summer. Venus is very cold? Why they have selected summer season? (laughter) (break) ...could not go to the moon, and Venus is far above moon. How they will go?

Bali-mardana: They're not going to Venus, are they?

Paramahaṁsa: Are they going to Mars?

Bali-mardana: No, they're just going around the earth, right?

Ambarīṣa: Yeah, they're linking up in space.

Devotee (3): Prabhupāda, when they said they went to the moon and they showed films of them landing and walking on the moon, was this all a bluff?

Prabhupāda: Yes, here they... All laboratory work, that's all.

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam: "He is not a muni if he does not disagree with another muni."

Yogi Bhajan: Yeah, that's right. (laughter) So what I told him was that "It is a good idea." So we are carrying that good idea now, and Muni Sushila Kumar is coming from India, then Swami Chittananda is leading that tour. And they have sent a list of sixteen other religious people who are coming. They are going to U.N.O., where the peace presentation this year is happening. I think we should participate in that. Then there is a vegetarian congress. There the participation is happening. And all this has been done just to lay the platform and honor the idea of that man Kirpal Singh Sant. Just he wanted that way. So we thought it is a better idea to be in the West and with the arrangements that everybody can come, participate, talk to each other. I would like you to be in New Mexico in one of the presentable cabin, and not let anybody of these devotee of you be around but to ask other people to come and talk to you, learn from you, share with you, share your wisdom, share your conviction, share your experience...

Prabhupāda: That's a good idea, very good.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They should come forward and cooperate. It is such a nice thing. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ (BG 3.21). They are leading men. If they understand, the others will accept it. It is a good thing. They must accept it.

Brahmānanda: In Kenya we went into one government officer asking for some land for a farm. He also said, "We want to give you land right in the middle of the village, so you can build your church there."

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Brahmānanda: He offered that. He said, "All the other religions, they have their... We have certain plots for them, and there is a church for Catholic, a church for Protestant, a church for Bahai."

Prabhupāda: No, no, take anywhere they give land. Yes. That will be recognition. We don't mind for the land, but the government has given land means recognized. That is wanted.

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That means Catholic church is supposed to support these prostitutes?

Jayatīrtha: Yes.

Brahmānanda: Well, actually, in France there is another now, a leading church official, a bishop. He was found. He died in the...

Prabhupāda: Prostitute's house.

Brahmānanda: Prostitutes, yes. And in Germany the newspapers gave this very big publicity, that "Just see how France is..." They took the opportunity of criticizing that "Here is the French church." Another big official, he was found naked.

Prabhupāda: And we say, "No prostitution." (break) ...the problems will come, one after another. This is a bad civilization. It is already a dangerous place, material world, and this bad civilization is creating more dangerous problems.

Garden Conversation -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Just like law college. Law college, one joins after graduation.

Dr. Judah: Right. There are two types of college programs. One is what we call the undergraduate program which is generally a four-year program leading to a bachelor's degree, and then there is the graduate program, which one finds, particularly here in the United States, if one is interested in religion, in the seminaries, which are...

Prabhupāda: If you have time some other time. We have to go over the particulars. So whenever you like. Day after tomorrow I am going?

Jayatīrtha: He is.

Dr. Judah: I'll be here tomorrow and tomorrow afternoon I have to go back.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So in the morning.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: We want to raise first-class man. Try to understand. The present society, we are creating fourth-class men. Therefore we are not in very happy condition. We want to raise the fourth-class man to first-class man. First-class man means with qualification who can control the mind, control the senses, always very cleansed and truthful, very simple, full of all kinds of knowledge, practical application in life, then to have full knowledge of God, these are the characteristics of first-class man. So at the present moment everyone is a fourth-class man. So we want to get some first-class men. That is required. Because there is no idea, first-class man, therefore people are becoming full of crimes. You have seen the article in the Time? "Crime, Why and What to Do?" That is the concern of the materialistic society. So we are trying to raise a group of men who will be ideal. Just like our devotees. You will find their characters different from all others, at least in your country. They do not have illicit sex, they do not eat meat, they do not have any intoxication, even smoking or taking tea, they do not indulge in gambling, they chant holy name of God, lead very simple life. So we are creating first-class men. There is need. It is not that everyone will become first-class man, but at least a section of man must be first-class so that others can see that what is the ideal character of man. So this Gurukula means from the childhood age we are training them so that in future it will be easier. That is the purpose of Gurukula.

Morning Walk -- July 8, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: After all, they are human being. Therefore we have collected some nice souls. (break) If you can go to the jungle, that is no hindrance, but let us take the opportunity of the civilized nations, preach them. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ (BG 3.21). They are leading the whole civilization. If they are convinced, it will be great benefit to the human race. (break) Also my Guru Mahārāja said that "You go to the western country." If he had said that "You go to the jungle," I would have gone. (break) ...preacher, either the jungle or the city is the same. Nārāyaṇa-paraḥ na kutaścana bibhayati. One who is devotee of the Lord, he does not make any discrimination that "This is jungle and this is city." Svargāpavarga-narakeṣv api tulyārtha-darśinaḥ (SB 6.17.28). For them, everywhere, Kṛṣṇa's property. So where Kṛṣṇa asks him to go and serve, he will go. That's all.

Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: It is not the question of inferior or superior. Different. Now you take one inferior or superior. That is your calculation. But the bodily features are different. That is material. But spiritually, they are all one. Materially... Just like your bodily feature and a man's bodily feature is different. Now, so far question of inferior, superior, that is your calculation. But we say that by nature, a woman and man is different.

Woman reporter: What does this mean as far as whether women can do the same things that men can do, or whether women can lead people?

Prabhupāda: Well, women can bear children, but the man cannot. Is it possible to bear children? A man can become pregnant? Is it possible?

Woman reporter: No.

Prabhupāda: Physically... Therefore there are so many things which is possible in man and which is not possible in woman, by nature. How you can say that they are of the same nature?

Woman reporter: I'm not saying they're the same. What can...

Prabhupāda: Then if you not saying that, then they are different in their physiological condition. So now this physiological condition, you may calculate, "This is better, this is better." That is your calculation. Our calculation is the man and woman are different in their physiological condition.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Sandy Nixon: How does one know a bona fide spiritual master, then, that can lead them?

Prabhupāda: Who teaches these things—how to know God and how to love Him—he is spiritual master. Otherwise bogus, rascal bogus. Sometimes they mislead that "I am God." Poor people, they do not know what is God, and a rascal proposes, "I am God," and they accept it. Just like in your country they elected Nixon president and again drag him. That means they did not know who is really bona fide president, elected somebody, and again they had to business of dragging out. Similarly, people are foolish. Any rascal comes. He says, "I am God." They accept. And again they accept another. This is going on. So one must be serious student to understand what is God and how to love Him. That is religion. Otherwise, it is simply waste of time. That we are teaching. That is the difference between others and our... We are presenting Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the science, how to know Him. The Bhagavad-gītā is there, Bhāgavata is there. Not bogus. Authorized.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: No. There is no different.

Sandy Nixon: I mean, are there other spiritual paths... Do all spiritual paths lead to the same end?

Prabhupāda: Spiritual paths are divided into four. Not spiritual. Real spiritual, mixed spiritual. Just like this, "God, give us our daily bread." It is mixed spiritual. One has approached God, God is spiritual, but one is asking for material profit. So this is mixture, matter and spirit. So there are four classes generally known as karmī, fruitive actors, they work for getting some material profit. They are called karmī. Just like all men, you will see, they are working so hard day and night, driving their cars, (makes noise of cars) this way and that way. The purpose is how to get some money. This is called karmī. And then jñānī. Jñānī means he knows that "I am working so hard. Why? The birds, beasts, the elephants, big, big..., eight million different types of..., they are not. They have no business. They have no profession. How they are eating? So why unnecessarily I work so much? Let me know what is the problem of life." So they understand the problem of life is birth, death, old age and disease. And they want to solve it, how to become immortal.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: This is the most important message. Because you are not this material body. Suppose you have got this shirt. If you simply try to maintain this shirt, is that very good intelligence, without taking care of your person? Similarly, if we are spirit soul and the body is just like dress, so the whole material world is, everyone is engaged to take care of the body. Nobody knows what is spirit soul, what is this need. Nobody knows. All these educational institutions, they are blind. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās (SB 7.5.31). And the whole system is also blind. If a blind man leads another blind man what is the benefit? No benefit. Therefore in your country, every country, it is a blind education. No spiritual enlightenment.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: That is really, to realize God. Not only Christian, any religion. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). There may be different types of religious systems but that system is first class which directly leads one to understand what is God and how to love Him. That's all. That is perfect religion.

Prof. Hopkins: So the question... The question in one sense is not whether it's Christian or Śaivite or Vaiṣṇavite but whether it is directed to a knowledge of God, a devotion to God or not.

Prabhupāda: That is first-class.

Morning Walk -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ: (SB 7.5.31) "Blind man is leading other blind men."

Dharmādhyakṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, when the jīva soul desires to enter the material world, is that an illusory desire?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Desire means he wants to enjoy, but he is not enjoyer. When he comes to enjoy, he becomes servant. That is illusion.

Dharmādhyakṣa: So when the jīva soul descends into the material world, it is like a hallucination?

Prabhupāda: Yes. We get experience daily. In the daytime we have forgotten the night dream, and night dream we forget in this daytime existence. So which is correct? Therefore it is hallucination.

Press Conference -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Let it be finished. Otherwise, attention will be diverted. (break)

Bhaktadāsa: ...photograph, we'd like to introduce the founder-ācārya spiritual master of the entire Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, who founded this movement in 1966, coming here to America from Calcutta. Now His Divine Grace has very kindly once again come to San Francisco to lead us in this holy Rathayātrā Jagannātha cart parade. And we will ask him the questions that you have written down, and he will answer those questions, like that. So the first question, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is "What is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement?"

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means that every one of us is in some type of consciousness: "I am American," "I am Indian," and, "It is my property," "America is my property," "India is my property." But we say that "Everything is Kṛṣṇa's property." Kṛṣṇa is the... Kṛṣṇa, God, when we say Kṛṣṇa, we mean God. God is the original proprietor. And He is, therefore, the supreme enjoyer, and He is everyone's friend. If we understand these three things, then we become peaceful. If all the nations in the United Nations assembly accept that everything belongs to God, then their quarrel between one nation to another nation immediately stops. But present fighting is that two hundred years ago the Americans were mostly in Europe. Now they have migrated and claiming America is theirs. So we think always that "All land belongs to God."

Morning Walk -- July 19, 1975, San Francisco:

Paramahaṁsa: In the British historical museum in London, I have seen there's a plate about this large, and half of it is pure gold, and the other half is lead. And they found this. They can't explain. It's just a straight line where they separate, and they can't explain how it was produced. So they're experimenting now to try to change lead because there's only, what is it, one proton or electron in the atom? Different. There's only like one proton difference between lead and gold. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the sky there are many big, big planets where the millions of miles made of gold. Just like desert, there is gold desert.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. We saw coming here a salt desert. There's a whole desert of salt.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Utaḥ. It's called salt flats. There's a great salt lake. And the lake is gradually drying up. And for miles and miles and miles, simply salt.

Prabhupāda: Even in this planet.

Press Conference at Airport -- July 28, 1975, Dallas:

Prabhupāda: (leads prema-dhvāṇī) (break)

Woman reporter: Are you familiar with the new law in Texas which will affect your school here, and have you considered what...? There is a new law in Texas putting your school here under the same regulations as other boarding schools. And I wonder if you have considered how that will affect your school and whether you will be able to continue here.

Prabhupāda: That will be answered by this person. He is in charge of that institution.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: Cobbler is less than śūdra. Yes. Cobbler means when the cows die, the cobbler may take it. If he wants, he can eat the flesh, and he can utilize the bone, hoofs. He can prepare... He gets the skin without any price. So he can make shoes and he'll make some profit. And because he is cobbler, he can be allowed to eat meat, fifth-class... Not that "Professor such-and-such," and eating meat. This is the degradation of society. He is doing the work of a brāhmaṇa—teacher means brāhmaṇa—and eating meat-Oh, horrible! Śyāmasundara? So make, organize. I can give you the idea, but I'll not live very long. If you can carry out, you can change the whole... Especially if you can change America, then whole world will change. Then the whole world... And it is the duty because they are kept in darkness and ignorance, then the human life is being spoiled. These rascals, because they do not know how to live... Andhā yathāndhair... They are blind, and they are leading... Others are blind, and they are leading and they, all of them, going to ditch. So it is the duty. There is... Caitanya has explained, para-upakāra. Save them. If it is not possible to save everyone, as many as possible... This is human life. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to save others who are in the darkness.

Morning Walk -- August 7, 1975, Toronto:

Indian Man (2): In Hardwar I have been recently, and I met one of my uncle's wife. My uncle's father was a very big mahanta. He was having quite in a big numbers, maybe in lakhs or you can say million, half million to million disciples. And what he was using in whole life, the disciple's money, for his own pleasure or his wife and children's. And at the end of it he took his sannyāsa. Only just few years after that, he died. And I found there in a lot of mahantas, they have a temples, they are using there lot of jewels, gold, and money, and they have a business, like that. And thousand of educated people visit, and they believe that this is all they are doing, show off, and there is no God. This is bewildering everybody's mind. Is there any... we have some system that we can conquer those people by means to... Those young generation of their children, they really looking for the truth. I met one mahanta, his son. He is very educated boy. He met impersonalist leader, and he misguided, and they are leading their life just like a, you can say, I don't want to use bad word, like pigs. They are eating and sleeping and mating, same as there are other people doing.

Prabhupāda: Well, this is want of knowledge, jñānam.

vāsudeve bhagavati

bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ

janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ

jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam

(SB 1.2.7)

If one is engaged in the devotional service of Vasudeva, then he immediately becomes vairāgī—no attachment for material things—and knowledge. But most of these rascals, they are nondevotees. The so-called mahanta, he is not mahanta-mohāndha: "great blind." So that is the difficulty. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to bring everyone to the stage of devotional service to Vāsudeva. Then it will be all right. Other platform will never be successful. Simply show. It is not fact.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Lalitā: And which we will take, this one and the professor Kajal.(?) (Bengali) You will give one Gītā, your writing to... You will present Gītā. And you lead your life according to this teachings. But she is great (Bengali) She is full of bhakti. But she needs good guidance. Anandamaya Ma is doing, but she can't come to her. So guidance, practical guidance also.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) So I shall personally teach Bhagavad-gītā. Her and her most confidential associates or who is governing. That I can do. (Bengali) Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). I wanted a rājarṣi to take up this movement seriously, but I could not get till now. If she becomes, it will be benefit for me, for the world, for her, everyone. Because I have no power, I have no money, but if one rājarṣi who has got strength, money, intelligence, if she takes, then it will be very quickly successful. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, His movement became very successful when Mahārāja Pratāparudra of Orissa took it. Gautama Buddha's movement was successful when Aśoka, Mahārāja Aśoka took it. It requires. And Kṛṣṇa says, rājarṣayo viduḥ.

Morning Walk -- August 28, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but those who are leaders, those who are leading the people, they are not interested. They are misleading.

Member: You can beg them (indistinct) everything nice with you.

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Sometimes this side, sometimes that side. Near the head. (about fan?)

Member: I not praising of Swamiji, I think no, so many saints are in India, so many great ṛṣis are there. Nobody were able to propagate or bring this consciousness among the people of the worlds as you did. It is a great credit to India. That is what I feel personally.

Prabhupāda: Do you think like that?

Member: Yes, I feel. In the heart of hearts I feel like that. I am very happy to see you and have your blessings. And I think that the whole world will be blessed or be benefited by your presence. I think we must take opportunity of utilizing your service and get benefit. That is what I feel.

Prabhupāda: So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that every Indian should do like that. I am only one Indian. If I can do as, according to your estimate, so much, so if every Indian does like that.

Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Cyavana: Their propaganda leads people to think that they can enjoy... That it's possible here.

Prabhupāda: They're misleading. That is misleading. We have to check that. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness move..., that... They are not enjoying, and these rascals misleading them that they are enjoying. (break) Enjoyment is our aim also—but real enjoyment. Ramante yogino 'nante satyānande. Satyānanda. Not this ānanda, temporary ānanda.

Cyavana: Eternal.

Prabhupāda: Satyānanda-cid-ātmani. Yogis, bhakti-yogis, they also want ānanda, but not this false ānanda, satyānanda-cid-ātmāni, iti... Therefore they call Rāma. Rāma means ramaṇa, enjoyment. Iti rāma-padenāsau paraṁ brahmābhidhiyate (CC Madhya 9.29). They do not know what is satyānanda. They do not understand, as soon as we accept this material body, it is misery, simply misery. The body is constructed within the womb of the mother in a miserable condition. These rascals, they do not understand. In a packed-up way, head down, leg up. And it is enjoyment. The body is created in this troublesome, from miserable condition; still, they say, "enjoyment." This is foolishness. This is called illusion.

Press Conference -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say the Indian, the leading Indians here, if they make a program, the common will follow. And everything is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, how society should be conducted.

Guest (3): But I think, Swamiji, common men follow only swamis, not the leaders or the priests.

Prabhupāda: The idea is: the common men, they expect something, especially Indians, that India has got some spiritual culture. So every human being is seeking after spiritual culture, but unfortunately, at the present moment they are doing something which is not very desirable, the so-called swamis and yogis. I do not wish to describe them.

Guest (2): Does your haircut have any particular significance?

Brahmānanda: The shaving of the head is a sign of surrender to the spiritual master, and we leave the śikhā...

Prabhupāda: And keep the head light instead of unnecessarily burdened. In the Kali-yuga there is a symptom. It is stated in the... Lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam: "In the Kali-yuga people will think by keeping long hairs he has become beautiful." This is the mentality of this age. Lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam. You can write this. Lāvaṇyam means luster, and keśa-dhāraṇam means keeping hair.

Morning Walk -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Blind leading the blind.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. Did you understand the words, "The blind leading the blind"? Do you agree? (break) ...culture, the basic principle is mistaken, bodily concept of life. How it can be perfect? (break) ... world's present so-called culture based on misconception. Therefore it cannot be perfect. Whatever they are doing, it is failure.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Can't satisfy anyone. Now people are under the conception that culture means that you can satisfy anything you like, any desire. Therefore there is birth control and so many things. So they are thinking that "If we can satisfy all of our desires, it is very nice culture."

Prabhupāda: But where is satisfaction?

Brahmānanda: They think that unhappiness comes from repression of one's desires.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They think that actually that we're suffering from so many desires, that we must be very poor creatures because we become devotees.

Prabhupāda: So why so many desires? Because one desire is not complete, therefore you desire next. Therefore the process of desiring is defective, and our process is to purify the desires, not to remain in the imperfect platform of desiring, but whatever desire you have got, just purify it. Then it will be satisfied. So desire produced by bodily concept of life will never be satisfied. Therefore some of them are trying to become desireless, the impersonalists. Nirvāṇa.

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Hm. They are keeping them in control. That is the way they should be kept in control, śūdras. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...very anti-Communist. They have an anti-Communist terrorism act. Anyone who is too much leading in their Communist ideas, they put them away. They have an island called Robert's Island. They simply detain them there indefinitely. (break) Very stable. Very stable.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. That is nice.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They don't have a welfare state here.

Prabhupāda: Why? That is not good. People will be lazy. In special cases the government may give some help, not that the bachelor daddies, and getting welfare, all the girls, and going to be prostitutes. In America they have created purposefully prostitutes. They know they will get money, and they have illicit sex. That's all. The social condition is not good.

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: I do not know who were those gentlemen. They are your teaching staff, that Mr. Chadda(?) and others? They were introduced as Ārya-samājīs. They belong to the teaching staff, no?

Prof. Olivier: No. The Ārya-patha-nidi-sabhā, which is an organization which was started about a hundred years ago by Swami Dayananda in India, with a motto of bhavantu viśvam āryam: "Let us make all men noble through search after truth," and that started in South Africa about fifty years ago. And one of the leading gentlemen in the organization today was the one sitting on the extreme left-hand side, Mr. Chautay. They are celebrating their fiftieth anniversary here in South Africa with a week's program, and they invited these two ācāryas over from India. One is from Delhi. I don't know where the other one is from. They invited them over to grace their celebrations. So they have been having a week of celebrations starting in the City Hall last Sunday.

Prabhupāda: This Sunday?

Prof. Olivier: The Sunday that's just passed, yes, they started there.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: The total number of books will be about eighty. Out of that, we have published about fifty. So the balance they are giving standing order, "As soon as published, you give..."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the United States... These are many letters we have, just some of them, from different professors who are actually using Prabhupāda's books, professors from respectable universities such as Harvard, Yale, Duke. Professor Dimmock, who is the leading scholar of southeastern languages at the University of Chicago, he very much appreciates Prabhupāda's books.

Prabhupāda: He has written one foreword.

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: That is cats and watchdog. That's all, watchdog. (laughter) That's all, civilization of cats and dogs.

Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, the 1975 Nobel Peace Award was awarded to a leading scientist who helped the nuclear weapon, who created the H-bomb. Just recently it was awarded to him.

Harikeśa: Peace prize? (laughing)

Devotee (1): Yes. Nobel Peace Prize in Russia, Oslo.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, you are giving the real peace formula.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Unless they stop their sinful life, they have to suffer.

Prabhupāda: I am not giving. Kṛṣṇa is giving. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasam sarva-loka-maheśvaram, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām (BG 5.29). There is... (break) ...formula, if you want to make peaceful the dog society, is it possible?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.

Room Conversation with Reporter of The Star -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Mass of people will follow. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭha (BG 3.21). Just like everywhere, in politics there is in one leader and people follow him, so we want first-class leader. Then mass will follow. If the leaders are rascals and fools, then what will be result? Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). If the leader is blind, how he can help other blind men? He must be open eyes. Then he can lead thousands of blind men—"Come here." And if he is himself blind, then how he can help? That is wanted. One blind man... One open-eyes man is sufficient to lead many thousands of blind men. But if the leaders are also blind, then it is useless. He must be in perfect knowledge. That is wanted. We do not expect that mass of people will understand this philosophy. It is not possible. But at least the leaders, they must know how to lead people—the father, the teachers, the government, like that. Then people will follow.

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1975, Johannesburg:

Guest: We've started practicing that Transcendental Meditation. We have found that by practicing the meditation we have had a change in consciousness. It has led us into further inquiry, so we've found that it has been valuable in a certain way, and that's the only actual practice. We have been reading things like Muktananda and kundalini-yoga and that sort of stuff, the haṭha-yoga. So it's just been an inquiry of our own which we've never done before. We've only been exposed to our own Christian scriptures. And we find in bhakti-yoga and Christianity a lot of similarities. They are the same, as far as we can see. It's difficult, though, to understand our scriptures in...

Prabhupāda: No, in the Bhagavad-gītā everything is clearly explained.

Guest: That's right. Our scriptures are interpreted, and we've been taught to interpret them in a certain way, and it hasn't been very clear.

Prabhupāda: What scripture you are... Bible?

Guest: Well, the Bible. But we only know the Bible as we've been told it, and it's been told to us by unrealized men, and we ended up being virtually atheistically inclined, until that led to...

Prabhupāda: So in Bible what is the conception of God?

Guest: It's very unclear.

Prabhupāda: That I was speaking. In every religion...

Woman: To identify with it.

Prabhupāda: There is no clear conception.

Guest: That's right. And I think this is the reason that leads you away. We've been led away from the Bible because of that. There is nothing clear, and everybody who has read it to us has read it to us in a different way. But I would say that the finest book we have read is Bhagavad-gītā. There's no question. (end)

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: MacCauley may mislead you. Why you should believe?

Dr. Patel: He misled our forefathers.

Prabhupāda: No, why you should be misled?

Dr. Patel: Now we are going to lead them. Are you not leading them?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Your forefathers might have been misled, but why you will commit the same mistake again?

Dr. Patel: Now we have improved upon the mistake and we are leading them, and we will lead them.

Prabhupāda: No, that is not the fact. These boys, European, American boys, they were misled from the very beginning of their life, but how they are improving in spiritual consciousness? The thing is we are not prepared to take up our own culture. That is...

Dr. Patel: That's right, sir. God must have some, something to fulfill.

Prabhupāda: Take for example our big leader, Mahātmā Gandhi. He was supposed to be very good scholar in Bhagavad-gītā. Did he ever preach that "You are not this body?"

Dr. Patel: I come from the ashram. Yes, he did.

Prabhupāda: Then where is the question of nationalism?

Dr. Patel: He never says... When he went to England...

Prabhupāda: Then why he asked the Europeans to go out? "Quit India."

Morning Walk -- November 13, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So, so many psychologists, psychiatrists, scientists, they come there in Los Angeles.

Dr. Patel: I mean, the psychologists are the real science which can lead a man to the higher understanding of life, psychologists. The abstract sciences of biology and psychics, chemistry, are little lower sciences. The psychology is much higher.

Prabhupāda: No science is perfect. Asato dhavato bahiḥ.

Dr. Patel: In imperfection also there can be gradations.

Prabhupāda: Gradations, that I give the example: stool, this side and that side, the dry side and the moist side. Somebody says, "Oh, this side is very good. It is dry stool." (laughter)

Morning Walk -- November 26, 1975, New Delhi:

Harikeśa: So faith in knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Knowledge means received from the superior. Like the child gets knowledge from the father. That kind of faith is required. If the child does not believe the statement of father and mother, he cannot make any progress. If the child does not believe the statement of mother, he does not know who is his father. So there must be faith, faith in the right person. Then it is all right. If you have got faith in the person who has got eyes to lead you, then he will help you to cross the road. And if you put your faith to another blind man like you, then it will cause disaster. Faith is required, but to the right person. Then it will be all right. You know that one barber is honest: then you can make your neck like this and he is with a sharpened razor. But you have faith that "He will not cut my throat; he will shave me." This is faith. And if you do not know him and if you put your neck like this and if he is a rogue, he will cut your throat. That's all. The same faith, if you put it to the right person, you become cleansed, shaved, and the same faith put in the wrong person—your throat is cut off. So you must know where to put the faith. So our Vedic injunction is: "Put your faith to the brahma-nistam, one who is God-realized." Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet samit-paniḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭam: (MU 1.2.12) "One who has full knowledge in the Vedas and firmly fixed up in Brahman, God, you put your faith there." Otherwise there will be disaster. Right faith. (break) ...you call Prabhakara?

Tejās: I called him on the phone.

Morning Walk -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:

Harikeśa: Yes, but dogs they have to lead a pretty miserable life.

Prabhupāda: But you have also, you have got, not living very happy life, this human society. There are others, even Indira Gandhi, she's always disturbed. Who is happy here? I saw personally. Oh, she is so disturbed. Everyone is unhappy. Who is happy here?

Harikeśa: I mean, you say that to anybody in America, they'll go, "I'm happy."

Prabhupāda: Everyone is unhappy, America, India, god or beast everyone is unhappy. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya, bhaya means fearfulness. That is unhappiness. Everyone is afraid what will happen next. This is unhappiness. So either you be Indira Gandhi or a street dog, that is nature's law. Nobody is happy. That they cannot understand that there is no happiness, and he's trying to make development for happiness.

Morning Walk -- December 23, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They might say, that is another thing. (Hindi conversation with man about blind leading the blind)

Lokanātha: (break) ...body is finished, everything is finished.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Lokanātha: When body is finished, everything is finished, so why...

Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness. You were a child; that body is finished. So you have got a different body. But this simple truth they do not understand; that is their folly. If the body is finished, then why you were a child, you have become a young man? Body is finished, but not everything is finished, everything is there. Only the body is finished. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This is explained. So when the body is finished, that does not mean that you are finished. You have to accept another body. That is real truth, and it is spoken by Kṛṣṇa, not any so-called scientist.

Morning Walk -- December 24, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's a fact.

Dr. Patel: We are making experiment to..., experiment by this way will lead up to the truth.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Experiment means repeat, with regard to the matter of finding out the truth. Not with the truth itself.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But the word means, "experiment with truth," that is contradiction. There cannot be any experiment with truth. Truth is truth.

Dr. Patel: Truth cannot be experimented upon.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is...

Dr. Patel: That I quite agree with you, and I become (indistinct). But so far as the method of finding out truth, that I experiment with.

Prabhupāda: That can be there, that is another thing.

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Harikeśa: So now the, the, the, there's no philosophy. So the workers, they are simply frustrated. Now they're going to rebel and revolt without any philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That will be natural. Because if you cannot live perfect philosophy, then they will revolt. Andhā yathāndhaiḥ... You are a rascal, and you're trying to lead other rascals with some rascal philosophy. How long this rascaldom will go on?

Harikeśa: So there's no need for any movement...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Harikeśa: ...Communist movement.

Prabhupāda: There is need of movement.