Later on (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"later on"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 2, 1976, Madras:

Mahamsa: Many people were purchasing books. (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Prominent place. (Hindi) Keep in prominent place so that others can see. And any book which is not in stock, you can note down his order so that you can send him later on.

Indian man (5): He will come every day.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian man (5): Mostly he approaching every member.

Prabhupāda: No, recently we have published very important book, Nectar of Instruction. For common man it is very nice. (break) Yesterday's lecture you liked?

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1976, Madras:

Prabhupāda: Oh, Sai Rāma.

Acyutānanda: Big Māyāvādī. And later on he had a very nice program for us. But the first day we visited—as I said, that he plays with snakes—so as we were leaving I said to Yaśodānandana Mahārāja, "I didn't see any snakes." He says, "Didn't you see that man on the āsana? (Prabhupāda laughs) That big one?"

Prabhupāda: That he said.

Yaśodānandana: That was just between ourselves.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Acyutānanda: Then he had a program with us, and he was chanting. He was a very nice man.

Yaśodānandana: He came and danced with us also.

Acyutānanda: And all the Śaivite brāhmaṇas doing the yajña, they came and danced with us like ghosts, like madmen.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme, that is not very much liked by others. What do you think, huh? When you say that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme, it is not very much liked by others. Huh?

Morning Walk -- January 16, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: (break) You also? (laughter)

Jayapatāka: Arch or anything be put on this gate?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jayapatāka: Should we put any little arch on this gate?

Prabhupāda: Yes, why not? Later on. It is not very urgent. (break)

Satadhanya: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Other one?

Jayapatāka: Exit.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (break) ...arrange it so they don't know how to use it. They get caught.

Prabhupāda: Wherefrom you got it?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where did you get it?

Morning Walk -- January 21, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No "except."

Jayapatākā: So then it is not possible. I can't do plumbing until everything is finished. Then only I can do the plumbing.

Prabhupāda: So far plumbing, of course, not very important. That can be done later on. They can use other...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Toilet.

Prabhupāda: Toilet. But they must be habitable. They may pass their stool on the...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Neighbor's land?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is not... But this must be habitable. Otherwise what is the use of engaging so many men?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about electricity?

Bhavānanda: Electricity is no problem.

Prabhupāda: Electricity also can be temporarily, immediately fixed up. That is not difficult. (break) ...saying that "Our work will go on." If you cheat us in this way, then I will not engage you."

Morning Walk -- February 27, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Eh? Doctor's land, Dr. Durgacaran Bannerjee Road, they belonged to very respectable family of that quarter, Bannerjee family. And Surendranath Bannerjee was the first I.C.S. I.C.S. He passed I.C.S. examination, Indian Civil Service, but he did not accept it. Aurobindo Ghosh was made by Surendranath Bannerjee. He was born in London. Aurobindo Ghosh's father, Manmohan Ghosh, he was a medical man in London. He was born... He's English birth. Well, later on, he became English-hater.

Jayapatākā: French-lover.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jayapatākā: Lover of the French.

Prabhupāda: He?

Jayapatākā: Aurobindo?

Prabhupāda: No, who says?

Jayapatākā: He always had some French people with him?

Prabhupāda: No, no. That... One French girl entrapped him. That woman spoiled him. He was actually practicing yoga very nice. After his release from political entanglement, actually he became a yogi, but this Frenchwoman, who became later on "Mother," she spoiled her ca..., his career. He became a bhogī then. (laughter) Instead of yogi... Otherwise, he was becoming yogi. You'll find from his photo. In the beginning, he was very lean and thin, and later on, when he died, he was very fatty. Means bhogī. (break) ...yogi bhogī, rogī. There are three.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Do you think it is necessary?

Prabhupāda: It will be necessary when there will be criticism.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Later on, but at the present moment they have shown interest in our books, so we'll give it the way it is.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That we can correct. There is no.... (break) ...is very good boy.

Madhudviṣa(?): Jaya.

Prabhupāda: I met you in Mexico? No.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: No, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Bombay last.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Two years ago in India I was here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There is one good point. His father is the president of the biggest liquor company in the world, and he has his offices, I think, in China also. He goes to China.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Hong Kong. He has been to trade fairs in Peking.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So we are going for trade.

Devotee: That's big.

Hṛdayānanda: Jaya! Kṛṣṇa's arrangement.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa captured him, (laughs) that "You come to China. You'll be successful." And when you will ask me, I shall go.

Morning Walk -- March 26, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: We have all respect. Amāninā mānadena. Even who has no respect, we give respect, everyone, not for his material position, but because he is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...are also coming here?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Who, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Gargamuni's vans, six vans?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He's not scheduled to come. Perhaps later on. He had some program scheduled. Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes the question is raised that Lord Caitanya predicted the holy name will be preached in every town and village throughout the world, so to what extent will it be preached?

Prabhupāda: That will depend on the preacher.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In other words, will there be preaching centers in every town and village, or will it just be a question of traveling through and preaching to the people and ticking off that we've been there?

Prabhupāda: No.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I don't think so.

Meeting with Bankers -- April 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Anyway, so he was the father of the Yakṣas, this Kuvera. So Dhruva Mahārāja was a great devotee. You have heard the name of Dhruva Mahārāja. He was insulted by his stepmother. When he was young, very young child, so his father had two wives. So the junior wife was very pet to the husband, and the senior wife was not so much pet. But both of them had two sons. So the junior wife's son was sitting on the lap, a small child. So Dhruva Mahārāja was the son of the senior wife. As a child, he was also trying to sit down on the lap of the father. The other brother, he does not know stepbrother is brother. But the junior wife, she said, "My dear son, you cannot sit down on the lap of your father because you are not born in my womb. And that boy, the other boy, he is sitting on the lap of your father because he is born in my womb." So it was sarcastic remark, but Dhruva Mahārāja, although he was a child, four or five years old, he took it very seriously. A kṣatri..., kṣatriya... (Hindi) He became very angry. So he immediately left the place and went to his own mother, that "Stepmother has insulted me like this." He began to cry, and the mother said, "My dear son, what can I do? Your father does not treat me even as a maidservant, so I cannot take any step." "So how I can take revenge on it?" She said, "If Kṛṣṇa likes, then you can take revenge. Otherwise there is no possibility." "Where is Kṛṣṇa? I want to see Him." Child.... (Hindi) She said, "I have heard that Kṛṣṇa is in the forest. Big, big saintly persons go there and meet Him, so far I know, my dear son." "So I'll go there." So this four-year, five-years-old boy went to the forest, and he saw Kṛṣṇa within, Viṣṇu, within six months by his austerity, by meditating and observing austerity, living on water, on folio (foliage?), air, in this way, six months, he got the opportunity of seeing Viṣṇu directly. And there is a big story. Later on he was enthroned on the father's seat. He became very big king. But his younger brother, the same brother, was killed by the Yakṣas in the fight.

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: India has no, had no such ideas. They are borrowing ideas. India's idea is self-realization. Live very simple life—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. The brāhmaṇas, they are living simple life, becoming very learned scholar, pure character, advanced in spiritual life—one class, ideal. And kṣatriyas, they are supposed to be the king. They distribute the land on nominal taxation, and the vaiśyas utilize the land for cultivation and cow-keeping, and the śūdras, they are engaged as weaver, blacksmith, goldsmith, mean other necessities of life. In this way the whole society is simplified, and the central point is how to become advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness by cooperation. This is India's civilization. There is no question of industry. Ugra-karma. It has been condemned in the Bhagavad-gītā as ugra-karma, laboring very hard for livelihood. This industry means engage the poor worker class to work very hard, and there is huge profit, and some directors of the capitalists, they take it. And they have one dozen motorcars, palatial building, no work, simply wine and woman, that's all. This is going on. And the others, they are seeing: "There is no classification, neither real brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya nor vaiśya. So he is enjoying like that. He has got so many cars. He has got such a nice apartment. Why not me?" There is struggle. This is actual picture. Our Vedic advice is that make life very simple. You must have some means of livelihood. Keep your body and soul together. So according to quality, guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13), there must be division and then simple life. The real aim is tam abhyarcya, how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Everyone is.... Brāhmaṇa is guiding, kṣatriya is ruling, and vaiśya is producing food, and śūdra, they have no brain; they are helping. In this way the society is very peaceful, and everyone is advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is India's civilization. Now, due to this association of the rākṣasas... Even up to Mohammedan time this civilization was being continued. Mohammedan did not touch the Indian culture. Sometimes by, what is called, fanaticism, there was fight. Not like this. The Arjuna.... Aurangzeb began this. Otherwise, from, what is called, the first emperor? Akbar. Akbar, Jahanghri, then Shajahan, there was no trouble. They did not touch. Even there was some marriage connection. They want to remain as kṣatriya king, that's all. The other things were not interfered. So instead of a Hindu kṣatriya, the Musselman kṣatriya. People were satisfied: "A kṣatriya... We have to work. Somebody must be king." So in this way the Indian people accepted the Britishers. "All right, you remain king. Don't interfere." But later on, to exploit the whole country, they began to plan.

Morning Walk -- April 10, 1976, Vrndavana:

Akṣayānanda: One boy I recommended for second initiation, but during the fire ceremony he was away on traveling saṅkīrtana for Vṛndāvana. Will he be able to take initiation from you and have the ceremony later, before you go?

Prabhupāda: He can be given.

Akṣayānanda: And he can offer in the fire later on. Very nice. He's a very good boy.

Yaśodānandana: Prabhupāda, there has been discussion amongst many of the members of the press and the Sanskrit editors regarding the actual place of Nṛsiṁha's pastimes. So I told them that on the occasion of our travel to South India we visited this place Ahobilam, and the paṇḍitas, they have scriptural reference from the Brahmāṇḍa Purāṇa and the Nṛsiṁha Purāṇa that the place is actually mentioned there, and it has been recognized by Rāmānujācārya and many of the great Ālwār saints. And yourself have already told me twice personally that this was the actual place where it happened. And on top of the mountain there, there is the pillar, iron pillar, which is the symbol of the spot where Lord Nṛsiṁha killed Hiraṇyakaśipu. So for the benefit of all of these devotees, they were just requesting your actual confirmation.

Prabhupāda: Confirmation or no confirmation, Nṛsiṁha-deva is our worshipable Deity, that's all. Why you are bothering where He killed Hiraṇyakaśipu? You worship Him, that's all.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They will agree so many things.

Dr. Patel: They will agree later on that the dialectical materialism is not the right thing, but the dialectical spiritualism is the right thing. What Karl Marx said was wrong. But they have started reading the Vedas and all these, Rāmāyaṇa, Mahābhārata, and...

Prabhupāda: They have got good sympathy for Indian culture.

Dr. Patel: And if they read it, then Karl Marx teaching will go away.

Prabhupāda: And we are getting enquiries from Russia of our books, about our books. We are getting enquiries. I am sending Gopāla Kṛṣṇa to make market of our books.

Guru dāsa: They have some of our books already in Russia.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1976, Melbourne:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In one sense it's also confirmed by Rūpa Gosvāmī, yena tena prakāreṇa manaḥ kṛṣṇe niveśayet, sarve vidhi-niṣedhā syur...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That "First of all help people to think of Kṛṣṇa, and then later on, the rules and regulations..."

Guru-kṛpā: But we follow in the footsteps.... Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). We must follow what the spiritual master is doing. We cannot create our own way. Then we will not be successful.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, that's true, but...

Guru-kṛpā: That is their idea. They have created their own way to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that idea is there. They are thinking of their own way. That is bad. We have got so much, so many literatures. They are printing their own literature and.... That is disturbing, yes. What he'll prepare? He's not a liberated person. He's thinking, somebody said, that "I'll give my interpretation on Bhāgavata." If these things are going, they are.... It is against our principles.

Room Conversation -- May 2, 1976, Fiji:

Guru-kṛpā: Just like, for example, in Bengal before, there was that Charan das Babaji. He induced them to chant the wrong mantra, but where is.... He's not specifically paramparā.

Prabhupāda: No. He chanted for some time and, of course, there was chanting of "Nitāi-Gaura." He introduced new system of chanting: nitāi-gaura rādhe-śyāma. So the Nitāi-Gaura chanting will have some effect, Kali-yuga. Although he was presenting pervertedly, the beginning was Nitāi-Gaura, so it would have some effect. He did not know actually Nitāi-Gaura. From his words it appears. He used to preach that Nitāi is Rādhārāṇī, and Gaura is Kṛṣṇa. That is siddhānta-viruddha. But some way or other, he was chanting Nitāi-Gaura. So some effect were there. Just like sandalwood. You do not know which way better pulp comes out, but if you rub any way, some pulp will come because it is sandalwood. So he had some effect of chanting Nitāi-Gaura, but later on they deteriorated because they did not know actually, neither they were taught. Siddhānta-viruddha. The siddhānta-viruddha means it will deteriorate. It will not endure.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1976, Honolulu:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Excuse me. Just like, say, America takes up this idea, that God is the Supreme Father and...

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say (indistinct) God in trust.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: We trust. Justice. Don't trust blindly. Try to understand what is God. That I am... Later on, I have not received any reply.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Not yet.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He, American people (indistinct) say, "In God we trust." That's very nice, but why you take this philosophy blindly? Find out who is God and why you should trust. That is intelligence. The slogan is nice, why don't you fight on this issue? The Kṛṣṇa Consciousness movement. You can fight on this issue. Intelligently, if we'll put (indistinct). We trust in God, but what is God? Eh? Hayagrīva? They like to trust in God. Then ask them what is God. They cannot reply.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: You accept the authority of the creator or not, that is your business. But you cannot say there is no creator. Just like there are many outlaws. They say also, "We don't care for the government."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But there is a government.

Prabhupāda: But there is a government. You don't like or don't care, that is your business, but there is a government. How you can deny it? That we shall see later on, how you can neglect government. But there is a government. You have to accept.

Rāmeśvara: I think it is just in the last few hundred years that these scientists have been given so much prestige and they're making so much propaganda. It's just a recent thing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, formerly it was not such a great majority of people who thought like this; it was just a few.

Prabhupāda: So we have to challenge all these rascals.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You are giving us the weapons with which to challenge.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Trivikrama: La Cienega?

Prabhupāda: Yes, huh?

Trivikrama: In La Cienega?

Prabhupāda: No, no, La Cienega, later on. I was staying near Pico, is that Pico? There was a... I think Washington Boulevard? Near there. I forgot that quarter. It is black quarter. And this boy—who is he now? Aniruddha? What is his name?

Devotee: Gurukṛpa?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Aniruddha.

Devotee: Gaurasundara?

Prabhupāda: No, Aniruddha.

Devotee: Oh, Aniruddha.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he was taking care of me here in Los Angeles. And they used to come from San Francisco. First of all, I came to San Francisco from India. Then I came to Los Angeles, to start a center here. I think Dayānanda took charge of this center.

Room Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...could not eat one cāpāṭi. (laughter-Prabhupāda laughs) Later on: "Bring more!"

Kīrtanānanda: Prabhupāda was feeding us all from his own plate.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sit down. (break) New spoon?

Hari-Sauri: Yes, a new spoon. I think Jagannātha-sūta bought it, and a few others.

Prabhupāda: That article is very nice, Jagannātha's...

Hari-Sauri: Er, Jagjīvana.

Prabhupāda: Jagjīvana. Jagjīvana.

Hari-Sauri: There's one article that he wrote for the BTG and a reply that Viśvakarmā made. Prabhupāda just read the article.

Kīrtanānanda: I brought some pictures.

Prabhupāda: Ah, very nice, the Deities. (indistinct) Kiśora-Kiśorī.

Devotee: Oh, it's beautiful.

Prabhupāda: Yes.... (break) Colors?

Kīrtanānanda: They have many different outfits.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Room Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Hayagrīva: I know. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: (still laughing) One may try to leave Him, but He is not going to leave you. Once come, "No sir, you cannot go out." Just like our Ajāmila. He was devotee in the beginning, and later on, by bad association of prostitute, he fell, but Kṛṣṇa took him at the end. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Kṛṣṇa gave him chance to give him a son. He kept the son's name Nārāyaṇa. So on account of affection of the son, he was chanting, "Nārāyaṇa, Nārāyaṇa, Nārāyaṇa." Just Kṛṣṇa is so kind that (laughs) "All right, this rascal is going out of My hand. All right, give him a child, Nārāyaṇa. He will chant, 'Nārāyaṇa, Nārāyaṇa, Nārāyaṇa,' and that will be his credit." Ajñāta-sukṛti. Janma-koṭi-sukṛtair na labhyate. Sukṛti, pious activities, of many millions of birth is not equal to love of Godhead. Janma-koṭi-sukṛtair na labhyate. Tatra laulyam ekalaṁ mūlyaṁ krīyatāṁ yadi kuto 'pi labhyate. Kṛṣṇa-bhakti-rasa-bhāvitā-matiḥ krīyatāṁ yadi kuto 'pi labhyate: "Purchase Kṛṣṇa consciousness anywhere it is available." What is the price? Tatra laulyam ekalaṁ mūlyam: "Only greediness, hankering. That is the price." "Oh, that I have got." "No, no. Janma-koṭi-sukṛtair na labhyate. You cannot obtain this price even after millions of births' pious activities." All right.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda: Another verse?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Nalinīkaṇṭha: I have a question, if it's all right. This is, Prahlāda is instructing his schoolmates, but his schoolmates, I think they would argue, "That's all right, but we are young now; let us enjoy. Then later on in life we shall take up Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

Prabhupāda: And unless you learn.... Just like education is given when one is young, and when one is old enough, he cannot take any education. The education, receptive faculty is there when one is young. Otherwise, he cannot take any education. What do you think?

Dr. Wolfe: Prabhupāda, I always thought, I always thought: "Later, later, I will. Later, later." But now I'm sixty-eight.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, education, everywhere, all over the world, education is given when one is young. That is the time. I think here in America there is adult education?

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Mahendra: Graduating with Ph.D.'s and then becoming truck drivers.

Candanācārya: Śrīla Prabhupāda said years ago that our colleges are producing beggars. They get a degree and then they beg.

Prabhupāda: Śūdras and beggar.

Rādhāvallabha: (break) ...reporter that he was liberated. Later on, he was asking whether you were joking. (laughter)

Duryodhana-guru: (break) It says in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho 'nādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ (SB 10.2.32). So this refers to someone who has attained Brahman realization, that he must fall down because he does not take shelter at Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet. Does this also refer to someone who has attained paramātmā realization?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless one reaches Vaikuṇṭha planet, nobody is safe. (break)

Rāmeśvara: ...to the reporter?

Bharadvāja: What did he say?

Rāmeśvara: He said that's all right, because the fish are happy.

Prabhupāda: And why did you not say that "I'll eat you"? (laughter)

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: And if you accept Christianity, then the Catholic process, I think—I do not know—that is only way.

Richard: But is the point that the Catholic Church makes the only point to be made?

Prabhupāda: Not Catholic. I mean to say, any church original, authoritatively, that is genuine. If you deviate from that, then you cannot claim to that school.

Rāmeśvara: It's an example that if the Catholic Church is presenting the teachings of Jesus as it is, and then later on other churches deviate a little, then to deviate from the teachings of Jesus is bad, and to stick strictly to the teachings of Jesus is the only way, in Christianity. That's the idea.

Richard: Yes, but the goal is similar in Christianity.

Prabhupāda: The goal cannot be similar. If you deviate, the goal is different.

Richard: No, no.... The.... Okay, the goal generally is the same.

Prabhupāda: There is no question. Goal is one, so if you deviate, then you go away from the goal.

Richard: Right, but the goal seems to me, as I have studied Christianity...

Prabhupāda: What is the goal?

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Makhanlāl: Is that considered offenseless chanting?

Prabhupāda: Hmm? Yes. You follow strictly the instructions. If you commit offense, how it is offenseless?

Makhanlāl: It's considered offenseless if, chanting, if one follows the orders of the spiritual master carefully?

Prabhupāda: There may be offense. You should go on chanting. That will be adjusted as you advance in chanting. Harer nāma harer nāma, harer nāma eva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). Simply go on chanting. We shall see later on what is offense and not offense. (laughter) Chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, not for any profit. But go on serving Him. That's all. Material calculation, "Now, this much I have profited..." (break) .... there is no animal?

Devotee (1): This jungle?

Prabhupāda: There are some deers.

Ambarīṣa: Yes. Yes. I just saw a raccoon just now when I was getting the car. There are some in there.

Prabhupāda: There is no monkey?

Ambarīṣa: (laughter) No. (break)

Satsvarūpa: No monkey in the United States. (break) "Nature Center" it says.

Prabhupāda: Nature?

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Jayādvaita: (explaining to Prabhupāda) One priest took many handicapped people, who...

Prabhupāda: No, why you are speaking of handicapped? Who has taken the handicapped? Handicapped is handicapped.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Our program for them is also like this, to give them spiritual...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Apart from that, we shall deal with the handicapped later on.

Kern: That's my, that's my...

Prabhupāda: First of all, we take the general people.

Kern: No, but you were saying that you speak, you are looking for the intelligent, the...

Prabhupāda: Not looking for. I am talking that anyone can be, I mean to say, elevated to the intellectual platform by training. Not the handicapped. Handicapped, there are special cases. That is another thing.

Kern: But...

Prabhupāda: Generally, everyone is born fourth class. Is to be understood. But by training such people you can make them division, first class, second class, third class.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Then you are unable. You have to accept it. But as far as possible we can give them help. That is not the question. Question is, those who are not handicapped, they are rotting without education, without enlightenment by keeping themselves as fourth-class, fifth-class men. Why not train them to become first-class men? That is the point. If one is blind, you cannot give him eyes. If one is lame, you cannot give him leg. That is beyond your ability. That is another thing; we shall deal with them later on. First of all, those who are born as human beings, why should you keep them as third-class, fourth-class men?

Kern: So this is a development. Saint Ignatius did the same, somewhat. When he began, he sought the leadership. And he sought the intelligent, so that they might do what.... Obviously, you do it also, seeking the leadership that can then teach. We call it sometimes elitism, and this is perhaps a good word for it.

Prabhupāda: So you find out the verse, satyaḥ śamo damas titikṣā, the qualification of brāhmaṇa. Here, it is meant, the first class, second class, third class, fourth class. Yes.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Kathy Kerr: No. Does that mean then that the basic, your basic self, your basic spirit then, is innocent basically? Like if it's the same spirit throughout your life from the moment you were born on, then it is innocent and you can, you can achieve fullness...

Prabhupāda: Now first of all, let us accept that the basic principle is the soul. Now whether he is innocent or evil, that we shall consider later on. First of all, the basic power is the spirit soul. First of all we have to understand that the spirit soul is there always, although we are changing bodies. This first principle has to be.... But they do not understand. This education is lacking.

Kathy Kerr: Do you advocate then that one deny the body? Like comforts and so forth, in order to...

Prabhupāda: No, why deny the body? Just like you are putting some type of dress. So dress is not unimportant. But real importance is you, the person. So where is that education about the real person? They are simply engrossed with the dress. This is going on. Such kind of mentality is there even within the cats and dogs. He's also thinking "I am this body." If a human being does not understand this fact, that he is not this body, he is changing his body, but he is spirit soul, then he is no better than the cats and dogs. We do not want to keep the human society in the category of cats and dogs. We want to raise them to the real understanding of his identification. That is our mission. It is neither Hindu religion or Muslim religion or.... This is science.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Extremely. They've lost their religious sentiment, religious consciousness. They're just like rude, crude. There was one chief minister in Punjab, he got a big business, big man, "Mr. such and such, I'm sending such and such man. Give him ten thousand rupees without waiting for his reply." "So what for?" "Why you are asking? Give him ten thousand rupees." And the man goes, and he has to pay; otherwise he knows that "This minister will harass me in so many ways later on."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They are called public servants, the so-called government officials.

Prabhupāda: Even your country, there are so many bogus institutes. There was one Mr. Bogart. I used to call him Bogus. Bogart is a title?

Jagadīśa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: His business is he has got some institute in the United Nations building, and he has got some office also. That means some poor country, poor, "Give me, give me charity," propaganda. And he will officially present some application to the Ford Foundation, and the trustees will give him money. There is no poverty-stricken application, but through this institution.... And there is clique, between the.... They are always.... That trustee came, that Desai?

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Hari-śauri: Yes, at that time, anything that was made in England automatically was considered first class.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, any rascal thing. They made a good market. And British Empire means to sell their goods. And they, for that purpose, they became rich. Money was drawn from all parts, especially from India. Everything. Later on, gradually we came to understand. In Lucknow, because I was in medical business, so I saw one Japanese salesman was selling one medicine, one or two items, potassiodide. Do you know? No. Potassium iodide. And another, iodine. He was selling at four rupees, eight annas a pound. But we were accustomed to purchase English potassiodide and iodine, thirteen rupees a pound. That Howard's.... Very famous, Howard's chemicals, like that. They were selling. So I doubted that "How so much cheap this Japanese firm can supply?" And they used to advertise that all these Japanese goods are third class. Yes, "German goods are second class. Our goods, first class." So I inquired from the salesman, "How is it that you are supplying so cheap?" "They're supplying.... The price is the real price." "Now why they charge more?" "They purchase from us and pack and sell." There are many big chemical concerns in Germany. Germans are very good manufacturers, especially of chemicals, iron, machine. Still you find, all this Uher and, what is called, Gundsag?

Hari-śauri: Grundig.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prof. O'Connell: He spent some time in Vṛndāvana during the Second War, became a Vaiṣṇava, devotee, I believe, and then wrote this lengthy German life of Caitanya. I don't think it's translated yet.

Prabhupāda: There is one, my Godbrothers also, you perhaps know, Sadānanda. He came to India in 1935, Gauḍīya Maṭha. And my Guru Mahārāja first initiated him with hari-nāma. Two gentlemen came: one Ernst Schulze, another Von something. But later on they left. This Schulze was my intimate friend.

Prof. O'Connell: One of your Godbrothers was in Toronto about this time last year, Swami Bhakti-hṛdaya Bon Mahārāja was passing through Toronto. Your devotees came over to the house and were very courteous to him and invited him back to the temple, and he was very pleased.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I wrote him care of your address.

Prof. O'Connell: That's right.

Prabhupāda: I invited him to Hawaii, but by that time he left.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: You have not recited this verse already? Oh, yes. Pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttim, this is the... They do not know what to do, what to not do. Because they do not take any standard idea. They manufacture their own ideas.

Kulādri: In the Catholic Church, they used to have the doctrine, "No eating meat on Friday." Used to be standard, no meat-eating on Friday; they would only eat fish. Now within our lifetime they have changed it.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: They have changed so many things. When I was a young boy they..., you had to be in church on Sunday morning very early, otherwise it was noticed. Now you don't have to be till later on. There is no more austerity in religion.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But if their standard is demoniac to begin with...

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are selling churches. Nobody is attracted. In London city there are so many churches closed. Nobody goes.

Devotee (1): In Cleveland, also, Prabhupāda, there are so many churches, only five, ten, fifteen people attend, and they are all elderly, elderly ladies.

Hari-śauri: Due to the Pope's taking a firm stand over the not allowing abortion and contraception, like this, they said that the number of practicing Catholics was reduced from seventy-five percent to fifty percent, just simply because of that one principle that he'd stuck to. So twenty-five percent immediately left.

Prabhupāda: Where they have gone? (laughter)

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This is off the record, but one may ask if someone like Christ or Moses was not mentioned amongst the mahājanas, present some sort of religion...

Prabhupāda: No, mahājana there is in Christian messiahs. There is mahājana. And later on, after Christ, there was so many other. Saint Matthew, Saint Thomas, like that. Mahājana is mentioned there. How can you say there is no mahājana? Mahājana means who is strictly following the original religion. That is called mahājana. Or who know the things as they are. They are called mahājana. And that means paramparā system. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna is learning Bhagavad-gītā directly from Kṛṣṇa. He's mahājana. So you learn from Arjuna. And after hearing Bhagavad-gītā, as Arjuna acted, as Arjuna understood Kṛṣṇa, you follow that. Then mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Then you are following the mahājana. You are on the real path. Just like we are. Here it is said, mahājana, Svāyambhu. Svāyambhu means Brahmā, Lord Brahmā. So our, this sampradāya, Gauḍīya sampradāya, is Brahma-sampradāya. And Svāyambhu, Nārada. Nārada is also in the brahma-sampradāya. And Śambhu, Lord Śiva, he is also mahājana. He has got his sampradāya, Rudra-sampradāya. And similarly, Śrī-sampradāya. So all these sampradāya we must follow. Sampradāya vihina ye mantras te niṣphala mataḥ. If you do not belong to sampradāya, mahājana, then you are useless. You cannot concoct any religious system. So either you be Christian or Hindu it doesn't matter. You have to follow the mahājana. If a Christian says, "I don't believe in St. Thomas," what kind of Christian he is? Similarly, it doesn't matter who is a mahā... But real mahājana is he who is strictly following the principle as enunciated by God. That is religious system. Otherwise there is no religion. There is no question of religion. It is simply concoction. Mano-dharmi, mental speculator. Mental speculation is not religion. Religion is the order of Kṛṣṇa and one who follows that order, he is religious. That's all.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we want to develop these concepts and prove...

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa will help you.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now later on, when Sadāpūta speaks, there will be similar concepts, but that is applied to the human platform called inspiration-inspiration and proving the existence of Paramātmā, Supersoul. Actually, it ties together very well. Even from the molecular level we can see this, and in the human platform actually it is very vividly,...

Prabhupāda: Manifested.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We can feel it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So in all branches of study, either it is physical or chemical or mathematical, in all branches of science, we want to show the existence of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: His hand is working.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Dr. Sukla: No. He said, "I'm Rāma and Kṛṣṇa both."

Prabhupāda: But he realized by worshiping Kali. (laughter)

Devotee: ...he dressed up as Rādhārāṇī too.

Prabhupāda: So do you agree to that? Then how you appreciate it? Indian woman: No, I don't appreciate it.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. It is a common sense. He, later on, he became God, by worshiping Kali, is it not?

Dr. Sukla: He was cursed by Kali.

Prabhupāda: No, he was a big worshiper of Kali. And he was meat-eater also, Ma Kali's prasāda, that unless one eats that prasādam he cannot become a devotee. So this was his position, that he worshiped Kali, and later on by worshiping Kali... His picture is there, mother Kali's embracing. And he also preached yata mata tata pat: "Whatever path you take, accept, that is all right." Is it not? So do you think it is all right? He worshiped Kali and he said yata mata tata pat. You agree to this? Now, Ramakrishna says yata mata tata pat. And Kṛṣṇa says... He became Ramakrishna, identifying himself with Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa said mam ekam, and now he's becoming Kṛṣṇa, he says yata mata tata pat. Just see. When he's actual Kṛṣṇa, he says mām ekam, and when he became imitation Kṛṣṇa, he says yata mata tata pat. Kṛṣṇa has changed his views. (laughter) Just see, this foolishness is going on.

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Indian lady: Is number important in chanting? It has to be certain number, or you can just chant?

Prabhupāda: Number? Yes, of course, no. Actually, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). Always to be chanted. But because you cannot do that, therefore you must fix up a number. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka, that "I must chant so many times." That is determination. I have prescribed to my disciples that "You must chant at least sixteen rounds." That is very easy. But there is saṅkhyā. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ. The Gosvāmīs, they used to do that. So it is; otherwise, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ. The chanting should go on twenty-four hours. Just like Haridāsa Ṭhākura used to do. He was simply chanting. But that is not possible for ordinary man. Therefore they should have a fixed up, that "I must chant so many times." That will fix up the determination. Bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ. There must be some dṛḍha-vratāḥ, that "I must do it." Then the devotion grows very firm. If we become lenient, "All right, I shall do later on..." No, must be done. Dṛḍha-vratāḥ. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13). Dṛḍha-vratāḥ. Everything should be determined. Then spiritual progress will be rapid.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: All bluff.

Yadubara: According to the Bhāgavatam, the sun is also 93,000,000 miles away from the earth?

Prabhupāda: That is we shall see later on. It is about. The whole diameter is 4 billions. And sun is situated almost in the middle. It is my firm conviction that they did not go to the moon. Neither they'll be able to go to the Mars as they have planned it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But their scientists would be mad...

Prabhupāda: They are mad already, they're talking all nonsense. Already they're mad.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They're studying all the rocks from the moon.

Prabhupāda: Rascals. What they will get? They studied the rock. And they have found one crack in the whole moon planet, and there's no living being?

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes, everything will be achieved. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet (SB 12.3.51). Simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, one becomes liberated from all sinful reaction of life, and he goes back to home, back to Godhead. Mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet. That is the recommendation.

Dr. Sharma: Can I ask one more question, Swamiji? In chanting, they also say later on, gaṅgāmāyī ki jaya, yamunāmāyī ki jaya. We also have in Rāmāyaṇa jato jaya sankara sata nama haya(?) (indistinct). Śaṅkara's kīrtana in saṅkīrtana. Some people, just like he was indicating, some people are more inclined to worship Rāma, saying Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma instead of Hare Rāma, Hare Kṛṣṇa, both.

Prabhupāda: There is no difference.

Dr. Sharma: There is no difference.

Prabhupāda: Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat (Bs. 5.39). Rāma is avatāra and Kṛṣṇa is svayaṁ Bhagavān. There is no difference.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Indian man (3): I said that, as an Indian, suppose I try to speak about Gītā or philosophy of Hinduism to people in the neighborhood, either in the office or elsewhere, especially with the Europeans, it becomes a point for discussion where it becomes difficult to convince as to why a person should take action without knowing the consequences or even with knowing that the consequences are going to be bad. For instance, Arjuna had to kill his relatives. If he knows that if he's going to do it, or if somebody, for instance, in a war, he knows that his friends are on the other side, he may find it hard to shoot at them...

Prabhupāda: So why Arjuna did later on?

Indian man (3): Because I think he took God's...

Prabhupāda: Because he was fool in the beginning, and after understanding Bhagavad-gītā he became intelligent. Why don't you take in that way? In the beginning, he was rascal. Therefore he needed instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. And when he understood Bhagavad-gītā, what did he say? Naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā. Find out this verse. Naṣṭo mohaḥ, "Now my illusion is over." Smṛtir labdhā tvat prasādān madhusūdana.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Mr. Kallman: Works on the credit.

Prabhupāda: So later on, he establishes his credit (and) without any payment, he gets supplies. And they keep their credit. On the day of payment, they must pay.

Mr. Kallman: Yes, exactly.

Prabhupāda: Therefore the Marwaris, they become very big businessmen.

Mr. Kallman: Very powerful.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This Birlas, they have become so big, they have so much credit in the market that by telephone they will ask any gold merchant, that you purchase one thousand tolās of gold for me. He'll immediately purchase, because he has a credit.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Devotee: Four hundred stories (break)

Prabhupāda: And fell down later on.

Bali-mardana: There is a story in the Bible how they were trying to build this big building, the Tower of Babel, and then the whole thing... Because they were so proud, God made them all speak different languages so they could not communicate with one another, and the whole project was finished. They were trying to build a huge building.

Rādhāvallabha: They were actually trying to reach God.

Bali-mardana: Yes. To reach heaven. That is how the Christians, in Christianity, explain that people speak different languages.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In Japan they never build big buildings because they know the earthquakes will come. They have maybe ten, twelve stories at the most.

Rādhāvallabha: (break) The big ones in New York, they build in such a way that it's very difficult to evacuate them in case of a fire, and this movie company did a movie of the two buildings burning up. So after that no one would move into them. They were half empty. So the city had to move all of its government offices into the buildings just to fill them. (dog barking) The Russian dogs are the largest dogs in the world.

Bali-mardana: Dogs to hunt wolves. These dogs are used to hunt wolves in Russia. (break)

Prabhupāda: (in car) ...saṅge calo, ei mātra bhikhā cāi. "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and come with us," that's all. We don't want any more. No fees. We don't say, "First of all pay so many dollars." There is no condition. "Simply chant and come here. We shall arrange for your food, we shall arrange for your shelter, everything." Still they will not come. They will go and pay fees and chant nonsense.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: But the natural instinct is to want to enjoy varieties...

Prabhupāda: That is material life. The material life means falsely he's thinking that he'll be happy by material adjustment. That is material life. Falsely he's thinking. He'll never be happy, but they are thinking like that. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā (SB 7.5.31). Durāśayā means this hope will never be fulfilled. That is called durāśayā, a hope which is not going to be successful at any time. And throughout the whole history they have tried, the British Empire, the Roman Empire, the Egyptian Empire, so many they tried, but all failed. Napoleon, Hitler, but still they have no eyes to see. From the history you see, everything failed. Napoleon started with some ideal, conquering all over Europe, and at last he had to die drinking horse urine. You know that? It was, later on he was arrested by British, and when he was asking drinking water he was given horse urine. That was his last life.

Morning Walk -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Not Mukunda. One, that...

Kīrtanānanda: Sometimes Carl would come, sometimes Jim Green. Not very often, they wouldn't come.

Prabhupāda: Brahmānanda later on.

Kīrtanānanda: Rāyarāma would come.

Prabhupāda: Rāyarāma.

Kīrtanānanda: Satsvarūpa came, started coming, and he would go to work after class.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Always very responsible.

Prabhupāda: At that time Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja was taking one cāpāṭi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whew! Only?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: At that time Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja was taking one cāpāṭi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whew! Only?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nothing else?

Prabhupāda: I would offer, he would take one or two, that's all. Later on, one dozen. (laughter) And that boy?

Kīrtanānanda: Trayādhīśa.

Prabhupāda: He would take at least twenty, cāpāṭis.

Devotees: Wow!

Prabhupāda: "Trayādhīśa, can I offer you?" "Yes." I gave four. Again finished, again four.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You must have been surprised to see how much they could eat.

Prabhupāda: Um, I was not surprised. He was young man, very stout and strong.

Kīrtanānanda: Originally, we all ate from Prabhupāda's plate though. There was one plate of prasādam. And Prabhupāda would just give little, little to everybody. And everybody would be satisfied.

Rāmeśvara: It is the great weapon, prasādam.

Prabhupāda: I used to keep some prasādam, anyone would come I would give.

Room Conversation -- July 18, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: And the police officer has approved.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, the policemen sat down at the end of the park later on.

Prabhupāda: You gave them prasādam?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't know.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm not sure. I didn't deal with them. They were dealt with by Toṣaṇa Kṛṣṇa. We'll bring them some present tomorrow. But they made the statement that "If every parade was so beautiful and so nicely orderly, we would be very happy."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They said it was very orderly.

Prabhupāda: And that cannot be expected from any other group, only in this group. Such a huge crowd, and there was not a single instance of violence.

Room Conversation -- July 18, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You saw them. The only thing they were carrying was one sign like this. The sign said "Turn or Burn." It means turn to Jesus or burn. Turn or burn, burn in hell. That's their conception of God. Either God or burn in hell. We could give you a good rest here, also, Prabhupāda, because it's very easy to not... If the devotees could see you on Sunday, just like in the old days in Los Angeles... I mean everything could be nicely done, and you could still visit the European centers when you finally return to India. I mean they are not making such a big thing that you couldn't come later on. Oh, boy.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) Good determination.

Bali-mardana: They say that Tamāla Kṛṣṇa is very convincing. When he wants to persuade someone, the person must do it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, just it would give... There are so many good... Of course, everywhere there are good devotees, but here there are so many strong preachers that if you stay here on the basis that they had to increase their preaching, we would double and triple our preaching. There's no question. We would throw out all considerations of inconvenience to ourselves and simply preach day and night.

Bali-mardana: Especially New York, the people are ready for it. Like today, they have taken part very nicely. Even the policemen.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, they're so favorable. Rāmeśvara was commenting. He said he never saw... The climate of the people of New York is unique in America. They are very favorable.

Prabhupāda: So where is that man? Where he has gone? 7-UP can be had anywhere.

Conversation with George Harrison -- July 26, 1976, London:

Jayatīrtha: There's a story of Valmiki, you know that story?

Gurudāsa: Maramaramaramaramaramara.

Jayatīrtha: Valmiki was a murderer, or a dacoit, thief. So he was met by Nārada Muni, I think.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Valmiki.

Jayatīrtha: And he was advised by Nārada Muni to please chant the holy name of the Lord and give up this thievery. So he wouldn't. So instead Nārada Muni said, "You chant mara." Mara means death. So he agreed.

Prabhupāda: Maramara, rāma.

Jayatīrtha: Later on, this Valmiki, he wrote the Rāmāyaṇa after having chanting rāma, mara, he became purified.

Hari-śauri: Transcendental trickery.

Jayatīrtha: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. (end)

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Even, say, hundred years ago, that Girish Chandra Ghosh, he wanted to introduce theatrical performances, imitating the European theatrical performances, man and woman taking part. So he wanted to invite woman artist. Not a single woman joined. Who will go to public stage to dance, respectable girl? They'll never. That is hundred years. I am speaking, say, about forty years ago. In one of our Dayanika(?) men, the girl was to be married, and it is the custom in India—the bridegroom's party comes to see the girl, whether she is right. Similarly, the girl's party goes to see the.... So they came to see one of my friend's daughter, and the daughter is very beautiful, rich man's daughter. So one of the bridegroom's party questioned, "You know how to dance?" That was the question to the girl: "You have learned something about dancing and singing?" So she was my friend's daughter, my, that friend, Mukunda Mati. His elder brother was there. He became very angry, that "This rascal is asking our daughter whether she knows dancing and singing." She took it as.... He took it as insult, that "Respectable family, daughter should learn how to dance, how to sing?" So immediately he protested, "No, no, no, she does not know how to dance, how to sing. She's not meant for that purpose. We like, of course, a young girl dancing and singing, but we cannot teach our family members. We spend for that outside. You cannot expect our Mullik's family daughter dancing and singing. No. He is well, good(?)." Actually that is.... Dancing? Singing? What is this nonsense? For a respectable family? It is meant for the low-class professional. Pay them, they will dance. Or go to some prostitute. She will dance. So he said that "We have got some taste for dancing, but not that our family members should do that. We pay for that outside." So this art.... And among the theatrical, Girish Chandra Ghosh could not get a single response from any respectable family. Then he had to seek some young girl from the prostitute class. They became later on famous artists, Kusumakali Dāsī, this Dāsī.... Nowadays it has become a fashion that aristocratic family should join this cinema and spoil their character. Otherwise it was meant for the.... No respectable man.... You find the Bhāgavata description, especially for the brāhmaṇas, the professional who would come. They'll take their reward.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Hari-śauri: Buddhist.

Prabhupāda: Later on, they became Buddhist, but originally they were Vaiṣṇava.

Devotee (1): So they will not make some objection if they think we are thinking we have come to preach Hinduism in a Buddhist country?

Prabhupāda: It is not... Don't establish Deity. Talk on philosophy.

Devotee (1): "God is the supreme controller."

Prabhupāda: Yes. We accept Lord Buddha as incarnation of God. Show in our books that we have got all respect for Buddha. We do not disrespect Lord Buddha, neither go against him. Anyway, if we get one house to live and a supporter, a big supporter, then our position will be secure. And if our cause is honest, then nobody can check.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: This is the approach, that first of all you distinguish what is matter, what is spirit. This is the approach.

Mr. Hamidi: Well, perhaps, the spiritual culture, what we mean by that, all the rituals, all the different approach...

Prabhupāda: No, rituals, this will come later on. First of all, let us understand what is matter, what is spirit. Unless we understand what is matter and what is spirit, there is no question of spiritual culture. Therefore you'll be misguided. By material culture, you will pass on as spiritual culture. And that is going on.

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what is the goal once one understands what is spirit and what is matter, what is the goal past that?

Prabhupāda: Goal is there, because spirit is important. Without spirit, matter has no value. This is a material box, but because it has no spirit, it has no value. It has value, comparatively, but not as valuable as a human being because there is no spirit. You can move, if you like, you can go immediately, but this, for many thousands of years it will lie down here. It cannot move. Because there is no spirit. Therefore spirit is important. So this distinction is possible to understand in the human form of body. What is the distinction between a human being or a living man and this box? The distinction is that the living being has the spirit soul within and the box has no spirit soul within. Now if we take care of this box outwardly, that we should take; similarly if you take care of the body only, then where is spiritual culture? If you take care of the four principles of bodily necessities, eating, sleeping and sex and defense, then where is spiritual culture? The aim should be spiritual culture, at least for human beings. The cats and dogs, they cannot understand what is the distinction between spirit and soul, er, spirit and matter, but a human being can understand. This is spiritual side, this is material side. The spiritual side is important. Therefore the goal is how to understand the spiritual side. That is the goal. If we don't cultivate the spiritual side, simply we take care of the bodily side, then we remain animals. And because people are taking only care for the body, this is animal civilization. Human civilization means to take care of the spiritual side. If there is no such attempt to take care of the spiritual side, simply for the material side, then we are no better than the animals. Because they cannot take any care of the spiritual side. They can take care of the material side.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa's mercy.

Atreya Ṛṣi: You will see it.

Prabhupāda: So make arrangement on Thursday. At any time, we shall go.

Atreya Ṛṣi: It is both nice location and a nice small house. We can also get a bigger one nearby, and a bigger one, we can take the whole city.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Later on. Later on. No, we can member anyone, because we are proposing very pure thing, "You chant the holy name of God." Who will object?

Atreya Ṛṣi: You should let Dayānanda Prabhu and I live a thousand years. We will buy the whole city.

Prabhupāda: I shall go there. I am going. (devotees offer obeisances) So thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Give this one garland to this boy and another to Atreya Ṛṣi. (end)

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Harikeśa: "There are various grades of men, and out of many thousands one may be sufficiently interested in transcendental realization to try to know what is the self, what is the body, and what is the Absolute Truth. Generally, mankind is simply engaged in the animal propensities, namely eating, sleeping, defending and mating, and hardly anyone is interested in transcendental knowledge." (Ātreya Ṛṣi translating in background)

Prabhupāda: Ātreya, when this is going on you cannot talk, then the attention will be diverted. You can later on explain. Go on.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā, (Hindi), manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). So they are not interested. They are simply interested with eat, drink, be merry and enjoy. Then? You were telling, that "First of all, let us become rich like Americans, then we shall talk of Kṛṣṇa." When they go to preach about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the people say that "We shall think of Kṛṣṇa later on." In India also they say. that "We are now poverty-stricken. Let us first of all become rich, and then we shall think of Kṛṣṇa." They say like that. They are not interested. They think to become rich is more than understanding Kṛṣṇa. That is the position. Therefore they are not interested. They say frankly that "We are not interested, why do you bother us?" they say. "Why do you bother us? Why do you come here to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness?" How much difficult it is you can just understand. They are not ready to hear about it, and our leaders say, "All the śāstras now throw away in the water."

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Ātreya Ṛṣi: If you take the scientist's thinking like this one step further, we see that because of this thinking they do not see, they become very confused, and then they say God is..., if there is God, He's unjust. He's not just because...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. There is God, rascal. First of all, our point is this. Unjust or just, we shall see later on. First of all, you accept there is God.

Jñānagamya: They are analyzing the semina, they find DNA molecules, like this, but they cannot find the essence. They cannot understand the essence of it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is my proposition. That is poor fund of knowledge. Still, they are trying to establish "This is the cause."

Harikeśa: No, we can find, the essence is lust, because as soon as there is lust, automatically there's all these other things. So you don't have to make all these other things because automatically lust creates everything. There is no need...

Jñānagamya: But there's also lust, the scientists are lusty to create and experiment.

Prabhupāda: But you cannot create such lust.

Room Conversation -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: So you send to America.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: To America is all right? I send it every month to Rāmeśvara.

Prabhupāda: Los Angeles, yes. For deposit in account number I will give you.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: We will go and we will take care of all this this afternoon.

Prabhupāda: All right, keep it now, we are going. We shall come back and then later on. After coming back we shall give him. Yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi yat dadāsi tat kuruṣva mad-arpaṇam. (break)

Harikeśa: It took two weeks to make.

Prabhupāda: Two weeks? Why? Because the ingredients were not...?

Harikeśa: No, because your mustard oil, no one liked to taste it, and then you changed it to mustard seeds.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Mustard seed also can be exported from India. In the Mathurā district there is sufficient mustard seed.

Arrival Conversation -- August 13, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Not as good, not as good as foreign.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not as good as foreign? That is... But we are going to be printing the softbound book for seven rupees.

Prabhupāda: All right, we shall talk later on. Now let me...

Hari-śauri: Maybe somebody could take those flowers and put them in vases.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: All the pictures have a garland. Distribute it?

Prabhupāda: So you have come, it is good.

Pālikā: Would you like to take some fruit now?

Prabhupāda: I'll tell you. Not now.

Harikeśa: Haribol. (offers obeisances)

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is also complete like this?

Saurabha: Yes. The other side we are making one special room for you on the roof. So...

Prabhupāda: One special room like this? No.

Saurabha: That is the lift room. But next to that, the similar room, the same size. It is not done. Because that we have to do later on. We're not allowed to do that now. There's a new law passed in Bombay that no one can build higher than six stories, nowhere in Bombay. So we had to rush for this, otherwise they would have stopped us.

Prabhupāda: So why you are not rushing?

Saurabha: No, this is finished. We have reached the highest. That point is the highest. It's only for the slab. Afterwards, they don't mind. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...from this light.

Hari-śauri: The switch is just in front of Prabhupāda's door.

Prabhupāda: There was a seat? Where is gone, that seat?

Hari-śauri: They probably took it in because of the rain. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...rainy season these leaves should have been very green, but it is not green.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So they were not crying very loudly, but the grandfather inquired, "So why there is, it appears there is some great suffering?" So my father's eldest brother, he inquired, "Is your mother dead?" I consider like that, no, no. "So I am also dead." He died later on. Next day. He simply inquired, "I think your mother is dead." They said, "No, no." "No, I am also going to," and he died.

Indian Doctor: These things are not very wonderful.

Prabhupāda: From spiritual point of view this has no meaning. This is worldly affection. It is worldly affection. That is not very good asset for spiritual life. Āsakti. One has to give up āsakti. That is the process, renouncement. Voluntarily.

Indian Doctor: Anāsakta-manaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Anāsaktya. Yes. Our Vedic process is that at a certain age you must retire from family life. Voluntary, forceful, giving up association.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Indian Doctor: It is the greed of the human being.

Prabhupāda: Yes, but the mission should be, human being should be meant for doing good to others. Para-upakāra. That para-upakāra spirit is gone on account of losing our own culture. Otherwise, India's culture is para-upakāra. India was open, "Come everyone, learn." Lord Jesus Christ also came here. All the Chinese, learned scholars, they used to come. The history is there. And India was open. Gṛhe śatrum api prāptaṁ viśvastam akutobhayam. This is Indian culture. Even the enemy comes, "Yes, please come, you stay." But later on, they took advantage: "Oh, they are very liberal, enter there." And still we are liberal. "Please come here, stay here and take prasādam free, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." Open to everyone. I shall manage anyway, I shall travel, still I shall lay down my life and bring money. Come here, stay. Still we are liberal. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra (CC Adi 9.41). First of all, make your life successful by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then do good to others. Yesterday, I think, in Tehran, one boy came. He proposed that is it not good to help others? I immediately challenged, "What you have got you can help? What is your asset?" You cannot help. It is simply bogus proposition. If you can help, you can simply help by spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). "Sir, I have come to you." "Why?" "To request you that you become Kṛṣṇa conscious." "How?" Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, "Always think of Me, just become My devotee, offer little obeisances.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Jayapatākā: So that time Mr. Choudhuri, he was put down. But he said, "I have not yet lost hope." He said, but he was put down a bit. That might personally talked to the Minister of Nadia, Anandamoy Visvas, who I personally met last year. And he was telling him that for Nadia he should sponsor this. Even the negative political issue with the Chief Minister, he should push it through. In the meantime I wrote an application to Karun Kanti Ghosh, who up to now we hadn't asked. Because it had already passed all the preliminaries. And I went and spoke to him. I told him that "It has already passed all the government stages. Now simply the Chief Minister has to be convinced." He said, "No, no. You are of good integrity. There is not doubt about ISKCON. I will immediately tell him." He called up the Chief Secretary, the Chief Minister was out then. Later on he talked to Chief Minister. The next time I saw Mr. Choudhuri. Before that, he told me... That's when he told me that "Maybe Prabhupāda should see the Chief Minister." Now he said it's not necessary. He liked your reply to them. After that, I saw Mr. Tarun Kanti Ghosh. Then I saw Choudhuri again a week later. At that time he said, "Now everything is changed." He said "Now the Chief Minister, that problem is solved." He has written that "Let Mr. Choudhuri make the decision. Let him make the decision. But I cannot simply take the decision. They'll say I am biased. I must work in the ordinary ways of the government. But there is no trouble now. You have waited so long. You wait another thirty or sixty days." He said, "Wait another sixty days, and then you'll get it."

Prabhupāda: When he wrote? When he wrote this?

Gargamuni: He spoke to me just two weeks ago. Two weeks ago. Then, last week, again I saw him just before Janmāṣṭamī. I asked him... And I gave him invitation to Janmāṣṭamī. At that time he told me that... There was this bad publicity. He told me, "Now this bad publicity, I think it has given us some benefit."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, could you give darśana over here later? They're all been waiting for your darśana.

Gargamuni: Hey, wait a minute. We're talking about Māyāpur. We're talking about Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: Is there...? Is there there necessity?

Gargamuni: There's no necessary.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. But we had you down on schedule for a lecture. So I said that you're not lecturing, but they just wanted to have a look at you. Later we can...

Prabhupāda: Tomorrow I shall.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Gargamuni: Yes, that's a fact. The Calcutta plan that you had, it is still under consideration. At first the Calcutta corporation refused, but then Abhirāma saw the Minister of Municipal Affairs, Mr. Subata Mukerji.

Prabhupāda: So I gave the meaning.

Gargamuni: He said, "No, I want this." But there's still a problem, is that they'll allow a monument, but they don't want the Deity. They'll allow us to build a monument for Bhaktivedanta Swami but no Deity.

Prabhupāda: Well, then take this proposal: "All right, no Deity." We shall hold meetings, lecture. What is that? In the park people come. And we decorate the whole hall with pictures. Gradually we worship one picture.

Gargamuni: Later on, maybe we can put Deity. Once it's built, they cannot tell us to get out.

Jayapatākā: That's what Mr. Choudhuri said.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayapatākā: He said, "You can take and once a week you bring Deity and put, and other time you just do kīrtana."

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Room Conversation About Blitz News Clipping -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: You dedicated the Kṛṣṇa book to him.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because he was a pure Vaiṣṇava. And he wanted me to become like this. He was praying Rādhārāṇī. He was praying to Rādhārāṇī. And any saintly person would come, he would simply say, "Give blessings to my son that he may become a Rādhārāṇī's servant." That was my father's prayer. He never prayed that "My son may become very rich man." He never prayed like that. Actually, his ardent desire that his son may become a Vaiṣṇava. And my Guru Mahārāja's training has put me this position. That I have admitted. Later on. What is that word I have given? Hmm? Find out.

Gargamuni: "The eternal father?"

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "Which was later on solidified..."

Prabhupāda: Ahh!

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "...by my eternal father."

Prabhupāda: "The ideas given by my father were solidified by..."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what you said.

Prabhupāda: Read it.

Room Conversation About Blitz News Clipping -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Read it.

Gargamuni: "To my father, Gour Mohan De, 1849-1930, pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa, who raised me as a Kṛṣṇa conscious child from the beginning of my life. In my boyhood ages he instructed me how to play the mṛdaṅga. He gave me Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa vigraha to worship and he gave me Jagannātha Ratha to duly observe the festival as my childhood play. He was kind to me, and I imbibed from him the ideas later on solidified by my spiritual master, the eternal father."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Very beautifully written.

Gargamuni: Yes, very poetic.

Prabhupāda: That is a fact. I got good father and good spiritual master. That's all.

Gargamuni: We have gotten bad father, but now we have spiritual father.

Prabhupāda: No bad father. Unless good father, son cannot be good. Yathā yoni yathā bījam.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: The building belonged to a big zamindar. So Prabhākāra arranged. So it was to be given to me, and I wanted to start the League of Devotees from there. So I spent some money, whatever money I had, and it was going on. But in the meantime, this Lilavati Munshi, Mrs. At that time she was wife of the governor. Her husband, K. M. Munshi. She had some organization of foreign women. So somehow or other she got imagination that "This house is very nice." She was governor's wife. So it was not given to me rightly, but I was using. So she wanted that house. Through collector and through all government officials pressure. She wrote me later on, that "Bhaktivedantajī, you wanted to organize, but you could not. But I have got this institution. Why not give it to me?" So, of course, there were many lawyer friends. They advised me that "You do not give up. You should litigate." So I thought, "Who is going to litigate? Let me go to Vṛndāvana." So I left. So at Mathurā I delivered the Deity to this Keśavajī Gauḍīya Maṭha, and I made my place in Vṛndāvana.

Room Conversation with Pandita from Tirupati and Government Minister -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: They have no idea.

Paṇḍita: No facility. So I left there. I came all the way, decided to select a place for myself. After touring Mathurā, Vṛndāvana, all these places, Kāśī, I came to Lucknow. In Lucknow Ramakrishna Mission I had been to. There was one Gauda Shivananda. He discussed with me, and he directed me to Calcutta. Then I went to Calcutta, and when I went to Calcutta, that Swami Gambhirananda, who is the general secretary now, was there. He asked me to join the Mission. I joined Ramakrishna Mission. I was in Ramakrishna Mission in Calcutta for one year. And I was taking care of their printing section, this proof-reading, editing, etc., Ramakrishna Vivekananda literature for one year. But still, my idea of going to the original texts of this Vedānta commentary etc., was not fulfilled. So I was not satisfied. Then I left that Ramakrishna Mission and traveled all the way from Calcutta to Kerala. There is another āśrama at Kerala, Parlika near Trichu, where there was one Swami Purnananda Tirtha who used to come to Bombay every year for giving lectures. So I went to his āśrama. I knew of that. And there I started studying this Śaṅkara Bhāṣya, Gītā Bhāṣya and Sūtra Bhāṣya for six months under one Swami Atmananda, who is no more, who has written Śaṅkara's words, the words, in his own words, teachings in his own words. Bhavan's Journal has published and the four yogas and so on and so forth, such books. He was a disciple of Swami Ramadasa of Kanaiḥ. So after six months that was also not satisfying to me. I then came to Śrī Raṅgam. There I went to a Vaiṣṇava ācārya. He said, first you equip yourself with the fundamental śāstras of tarka, vyakāraṇa, and mīmāṁsā. Then come to Vedānta. Then, later on, in Sanskrit College I went and studied for two and a half years this fundamentals of Vedānta, tarka, vyakāraṇa, mīmāṁsā, and then I came to Śrī Raṅgam back and studied Vedānta. There for eight years I studied Vedānta. Say in all twelve years. Ten years. Another two years... I have been in Tirupati for the past two years, specializing in the higher texts of Mīmāṁsā. (pause)

Prabhupāda: Then?

Paṇḍita: So this is how for the past twelve years I have been going in search of this sources from where I can get all this knowledge, and after much roaming about, I have got this knowledge. So I would like to put it to proper use. I would like to teach it to so many people who are interested in it. At least...

Prabhupāda: So that opportunity you'll get in our mission.

Room Conversation -- September 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That solves all the problems.

Prabhupāda: No, solves or not solves, we shall see later on. But this is the principle. This is the principle. Solution, if we do not become very simple servant of Kṛṣṇa, problems will increase. It will never be solved. If you have got any other desire than to serve Kṛṣṇa, then the problems will increase. It will never decrease. Therefore bhakti begins, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). No other purpose than to serve Kṛṣṇa. This is only purpose. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167). So our only business is how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa in His original status as Kṛṣṇa, and in His other status as Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and in both ways, He's insisting to preach. That is a very important business. Neither Caitanya Mahāprabhu nor Kṛṣṇa has recommended that you become a great devotee and sit down in a place and talk big, big words and simply eat and sleep. Kṛṣṇa has never said. That is not Kṛṣṇa's neither Caitanya Mahāprabhu's business. That is not required. Boro boro bado bado phet lanka mata kore het.(?) "Big, big monkey, big, big belly, Ceylon jumping, melancholy." There are very many big, big bellies in Vṛndāvana, but if they're asked to preach Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission all over the world—melancholy. Melancholy. Big, big monkey, big, big belly. So you have taken a very great mission that world preaching, that is very, very nice decision. So you have got buses and you have got capacity. You do this. And one in Germany, one in India, come and go, come and go.

Garden Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: It was donated by the late governor and Central Minister. Nityananda Kananda. (?)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He donated it. Okay, I'll write down his name them. "Gaura-Govinda Swami, a 45 year old retired teacher from Orissa is in charge of our Bhuvaneśvara center." So they'll know. "Point ten..."

Prabhupāda: So that land was donated by a prominent man. Nityananda Kananda (?) was central government minister and later on governor of Gujarat. And he often comes to see me in Calcutta.

Garden Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Deputy minister in the central government.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: During when? Approximately?

Prabhupāda: During Jawaharlal Nehru's time. And later on governor of Gujarat.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Governor of?

Prabhupāda: Gujarat. Now he's retired.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay, this is very good. This will get them to shut up their mouth completely. Okay.

Prabhupāda: So? Why you are unnecessarily...

Hari-śauri: It's not... Just dripping a little bit. It's not so bad. I'm just wearing the cādara to keep the mosquitos off. I'm getting bitten, so I'm wearing a cādara to keep the insects away.

Prabhupāda: So it is coming again. (fountain starts) (break) ...very celebrated astrologer.

Akṣayānanda: Yes. He said, "Well, Bhaktisiddhānta Mahārāja was."

Prabhupāda: But he gave up.

Garden Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Ash?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Ash. So all the local, a big crowd would come to see him. So they went and they sat right next to the child. So that day the ash was not produced. So later on the whole thing got exploded and the child's parents admitted it was bogus. Now that "god" is finished. Bhagavān Śrī Kṛṣṇa. He was six year old Śrī Kṛṣṇa. So this Sai Baba refused to answer the questionnaire. He said, "Why should I respond to these people?"

Indian man: He's angry from that.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This group of professors, they're exposing all these bogus gurus who are saying they are God.

Prabhupāda: Have you got it?

Pradyumna: Yes.

Room Conversation -- September 11, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So first of all finish your construction. Then you go to (indistinct).

Saurabha: (indistinct), they carving the wood and everything, the shape of the...

Prabhupāda: Now, we shall bring priests from Hyderabad.

Saurabha: Aha. That is the technical thing. But I was speaking regarding the construction because I want to know whether you want to have the bathing ceremony only taking place on the opening day, or also later on the facility can...

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Saurabha: Only that day.

Prabhupāda: Only that day.

Saurabha: Then is it necessary to make this special arrangement that this...

Prabhupāda: No, no. The small deities, śālagrāma, they are worshiped. And big Deity, they are decorated nicely. No need of worshiping.

Room Conversation -- September 11, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Ah. So the three men cannot live there?

Harikeśa: No.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Harikeśa: It's too small.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Not so. First of all, give them, then we shall see later on. Why immediately want facilities? Or he can, the other man can go with the brahmacārīs.

Harikeśa: The younger one.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Yes, somebody may go to the brahmacārīs. Just now make them accommodated there, then we shall see what to do. That "First of all you stay here, then we shall see what is convenient to you then."

Harikeśa: Because they're in an awful small room. If I put three in that room, that one man who's already there may become upset.

Prabhupāda: He has already gone there?

Harikeśa: No, I mean I know. I've been there. But that one man who's there now...

Prabhupāda: So four men cannot live in that room?

Room Conversation -- September 11, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Money is concerned, you'll get any amount. Now organize and (indistinct).

Dhanañjaya: Now, another thing I wanted to ask. Many devotees were asking me if we could make a Deity of Your Divine Grace.

Prabhupāda: That is not very, well... That is not immediate. We shall see later on. You can make. That we shall see later on. Not immediately. Immediately you make this arrangement.

Dhanañjaya: And for design of Gaura-Nitāi and Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, we should just use the same design or we should make better?

Prabhupāda: Make a hand design like that and have your people make like that. Make a nice...

Dhanañjaya: Make, yes. I mean, better design.

Prabhupāda: Yes, make a better design. And the hand will be like this.

Dhanañjaya: Not like this. I like this myself. It's Navadvīpa style.

Prabhupāda: This is Navadvīpa style.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1976, Vrndavana:

Haṁsadūta: They were in business.

Prabhupāda: A broker club business. So the businessmen, the zamindars, and gradually they started their factories, railways, in this way they started. And they are big politicians, so it is their management. And they failed when things were mismanaged. First of all they created friendship, and later on when they were in power, they created enmity. Then it is failed.

Devotee: Hm.

Prabhupāda: First of all friendship, and that established them. And then they began to create enmity. Hindus against Muslim, Muslim... They wanted to stay. When they forgot this idea that if they wanted to stay for the benefit of the people, nobody could drive them away. But their policy was for the benefit of the English people. Therefore they failed. Lord Curzon, he says a statement that, "If you want to stay in India, rule India for the benefit of Indian people. You can keep control over India. They are fond of kings, so one member of the royal family can become king here and they'll earn respect and honor (from) these Indian people. But rule for their benefit. Then British Empire will stay." Very good advice, but his advice was not taken. You have seen Lord Curzon's statue near the, in front of the Victoria Memorial Hall?

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, hm. (break) ...just in front of our house, attached to our house. That means the house belonged to one of our relatives and her son, stepson, he sold the whole house to a Marwari without the knowledge of this, my, she was in relation grandmother. So when the house was sold in those days, about say about 100 years ago, not 100 years, about 90 years. In Mahatma Gandhi road, most important, that Mullik's house you have seen? That was one of the Mullik's house, for 12,000 rupees. One bighā of land and grand building. So it was unknown to the stepmother, the stepson sold it. Then she appealed to the high-court that, "I belong to a respectable family and this my spoiled stepson has sold the house without my knowledge, then where shall I go?" The high-court considered that, "The drunkard son has sold at a cheap price, and she's belongs to a respectable family, where she'll go?" And the high-court order was, "The half of the house shall be used by this lady. During her lifetime, you cannot take possession," the Marwari who purchased. So under that grandmother, we used to live. Therefore this half portion of the house was a Marwari school. So it is just like our temple and this. So my father first admitted me in that Marwari school. So I learned this devanāgarī there, for a few days I was going. I was the only Bengali student there. Because I was little, my father thought that instead of going outside the house, within the house there is a school, get him admitted. The school name was Visuddhana(?) Marwari Vijnala(?), something like that, and later on they constructed huge building Visuddhana(?). Then the house was vacated. So in the beginning I was admitted in a Marwari school and I learned a little Hindi there, that's all.

Room Conversation About Gurukula -- November 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: For feeding. Feeding. Give them sumptuous food so that they may become healthy, nice food. (laughter) Yes. That is also wanted. Children, they must eat sufficiently. Not overeat. Even overeat, that is not wrong for children. And that will be exercise, by going to Yamunā and coming? That will be bodily exercise. This is nice. Do that. Strictly follow. There is no scarcity of space there, yes. Vṛndāvana is holy place. And there is no government interference, so increase it. Bring more student from all over the world. Then it will be unique. And you also make scheme to get Indian children from aristocratic family. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭo 'bhijāyate (BG 6.41). Those who are born in high-class, rich family or brāhmaṇa family, they are not ordinary. But there is no brāhmaṇa family now. So at least the richer section, they can be induced to send their boys to learn Sanskrit and English and Bhagavad-bhakti. They can do business, and whatever they like, they can do later on. But these things, they should be... Father-mother should be careful. (Hindi conversation) ...just attract all good family children. (Hindi) ...working, they will have to live. They cannot. They cannot become paṇḍita or spiritually advanced men. They have to work. But if the richer section, they get their sons, good character, good devotee. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says, ko 'tha putreṇa jātena yo na vidyā na bhaktimān: (?)"What is the use of such son who is neither devotee nor learned?" Kāṇena cakṣuṣā kiṁ cakṣuḥ pīḍaiva kevalam.(?) What is the use of blind eyes? It is simply troublesome. So if the aristocratic family, they do not give education in spiritual line, they'll become all hippies, loafer, and drinking, and wasting father's money. They should be informed. (Hindi) (break) I think there must be three, four classes.

Room Conversation -- November 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He's a black man.

Jagadīśa: Yes. Then, later on, that man he was appointed Lieutenant Governor under Carter. So Carter and this man are close, and through this man Carter knows about Balavanta and the movement.

Prabhupāda: You have written one letter?

Jagadīśa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Balavanta is very intelligent boy. He can do that. Bring that spring water, little. You can type this?

Jagadīśa: On your letterhead?

Prabhupāda: Hm, yes.

Jagadīśa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, one of the students is just about fifteen, and he's been initiated now for a year and I'd like to recommend him for second initiation. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...good hope for preaching in China. I have received letter from Trivikrama Mahārāja. What she is doing, Carter's mother, here? He's in India?

Jagadīśa: Not anymore.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 7, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Mahāṁśa: The same road. That's where the dioramas will be. (break)

Devotee (1): ...having lunch with the cowherd boys on this rocky place and then people can come and sit here also.

Prabhupāda: Later on. First of all grow vegetable. Let us eat first of all. Immediately grow vegetables sufficient. And this is good idea, we shall do that, but first of all let us organize the vegetables, fruits. What are these trees?

Mahāṁśa: These are nimbu (lemon) trees which Badrukas have planted and were neglected. They have become very stunted. We dug them out, and we put some cow dung just last, two, three months back. We're going to bring them up, but they will not be very good now. They've already been stunted.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Mahāṁśa: They have been neglected in the beginning, so they have become stunted. So it will help a little by manuring, and some places it has to be grafted and cut off. Some of the trees are good. We get... How many nimbus did we get this year?

Prabhupāda: Make nimbu-ācāra (lemon pickle).

Mahāṁśa: Oh yes, we made... Acyutagaja isn't here. One devotee here, he knows how to make it. He made very nice nimbu-ācāra.

Prabhupāda: Simply salt and lemon juice. Cut some pieces into half and soak it in lemon juice and put sufficient salt. In due course it will be very nice, thick. Very digestible. (break) Not yet utilized. So you have to do that.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Out of three, two. Out of three, any two will do. That's all.

Mahāṁśa: And amount which will be given from Your Divine Grace will be a loan towards the trust which will be paid back later on.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Māyāpur account you take. Ask them to transfer to this account. And when you want to pay...

Mahāṁśa: Yes, then they transfer

Prabhupāda: That's all. That will be... Do that. So open account.

Haṁsadūta: Also that lakh of rupees which I gave him last year.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is his.

Haṁsadūta: The temple should pay it.

Mahāṁśa: Yes, that one lakh rupees I will pay from the four and a half lakhs. You told me to put everything into your account. So should I put the four and a half lakhs into your account or should I put one lakh in this account and then three and a half...

Prabhupāda: Anyway, give him. That's all.

Press Conference -- December 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: ...the right side is darkness. (Hindi)

Guest (1) (Indian reporter): Obviously we have selected darkness. That is what we want to do. We want to go into light later on.

Prabhupāda: You are requesting something... Veda says, "Come to the light." Tamaso mā jyotir gamaya: "Don't remain in darkness. Come to the light."

Guest (2): We want more light.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (2): Tamaso mā jyotir gamaya.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is desirable in human. Otherwise the animals are in darkness. They do not know what is God. But a human being, because he has got this human form of body, he can come to the light. So all the śāstras are for the human being, not for the cats and dogs. So if you do not take advantage of the śāstras, then you remain in the darkness. This is our position. The light is here. Just like apart from all other śāstras, if you take Bhagavad-gītā, it is the very brilliant light. It is not that changing. Five thousand years ago Kṛṣṇa said, what, that is still the same thing. Just like light. Millions of years ago, what was sun, the same sun is there. In the light there is no change. In the darkness there is change. If we do not accept the standard knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā, then we shall continue to remain in darkness and there will be no solution of the problems of life. This is our propaganda. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means that we are asking everywhere, all over the world, "You come to this light and be happy." That's it.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Indian man: To be innocent, to be ignorant is good then.

Prabhupāda: No. Therefore he should go to the master. Because he is ignorant, he must go to the master. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). But if you capture one, another person as master who is like me, then you are failure. Therefore we should accept the recognized master by everyone. Just like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is accepted as the master. Beginning from all sources. Vyāsadeva. Vyāsadeva is the original guru. So what Vyāsadeva has said about Kṛṣṇa. Then Vyāsadeva, later on Nārada Muni. And from Nārada Muni, Vyāsadeva. And from Vyāsadeva, Śukadeva Gosvāmī. And Śukadeva Gosvāmī is describing about Kṛṣṇa. Then paramparā, from Śukadeva Gosvāmī, others, Sūta Gosvāmī, like that. The knowledge is the same. Kṛṣṇa says that "I spoke about this knowledge to the sun-god. And he explained this knowledge to Manu." So in this way, apart from that, that I have not seen Manu I do not know. But when there is Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa said to Arjuna, "That's a fact." So you understand from Arjuna what Arjuna said. Why should you go to somebody else? That is written record, how Arjuna understood. That is the way. Why should we go to a person who does not know? One who knows, we should go. Yes. This is a fact, that Arjuna understood it.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Mr. Malhotra: Aren't we the images of God?

Prabhupāda: Apart from images... That is another thing. That we shall describe later on. First of all you cannot claim that you are God because you are under the control of material nature.

Mr. Malhotra: You said part and parcel of God.

Prabhupāda: Part and parcel, just like the finger is part and parcel of my body, but it is not the whole body.

Mr. Malhotra: It is the body.

Prabhupāda: It is body, you can say that, but part of it.

Mr. Malhotra: Part of my body. All enjoined together, it makes the whole body. If it is separated...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But still you say it is aṅguli (finger). It is not the body.

Mr. Malhotra: Aṅguli. (Laughs) It is one part, to say many.

Prabhupāda: No. You should be, should be senses. Just like this aṅguli, I am asking, "Do like this." It is my servant. After all, it is part of the body, it is my servant. If it cannot serve my body then it is diseased. Similarly we are part and parcel of God. If we cannot serve God, that is our diseased condition. The same example. This finger is part and parcel of my body. But I ask finger, "Please come here, to my nostrils." If it cannot do, then it is diseased. It is not in normal condition. So anyone who does not serve the whole, part and whole, he is diseased. He is not in normal condition. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇera dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). Therefore because we have forgotten this relationship with God, declared ourself as God, that is diseased condition. Therefore God comes and He orders, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66). "Surrender unto Me. Don't talk nonsense." That is God. So when we agree, that is our perfection. Not to artificially become God, but to agree to serve God. That is liberation.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Yes, karmī means this how to enjoy this world. Whole life they have struggled how to enjoy this, how to enjoy myself, how to allow my men to enjoy. This is karmī platform. Everyone is doing that. Everyone is working hard for himself, for his family, and expand the family, for society, and expand the society, for the nation. Here is karmī plan. Gandhi, Birla they are all... There is no question of spiritual life.

Mr. Malhotra: Now this is the Kṛṣṇā River. You just see how small it is, and how big it becomes later on. In the rainy season this road is closed because this all water comes up, you know. Now it is just a small rivulet. This is Kṛṣṇā river. And it comes just opposite our place, from where it starts, from the mountain. Here is the place called Haya (?). This was also one of the biggest Sanskrit University in the older time like that of Teksasila. And Sarnatha, near Sarnatha, what is that place? Not Sarnatha, up in Bihar, that was also very big university, no?

Prabhupāda: Oh, Taksila.

Room Conversation -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He did not say no, but the printing of books, that was difficult task for him. He had no money. He's hardly collecting for maintaining. And India, printing of books is a big job. There is no guarantee of sale.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He must be feeling sorry for it now. Of course, he's dead. But later on he must be feeling sorry that if he would have given you... Agreed to your request...

Prabhupāda: Yes. These things I would have done from Caitanya Maṭha.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I never knew... We never knew that you went to Tīrtha Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) No... Rather, it is Guru Mahārāja's institution. I first of all gave him...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: A chance.

Prabhupāda: He's head man. "All right. I shall join you."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: When was this? Which year?

Prabhupāda: In 1953. Before going to America. Two years before.

Room Conversation -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Tire merchant?

Girirāja: I don't remember. But Haṁsadūta and I went way in the beginning and later on he came during the Delhi pandal. He met you and he wanted us to open a center there.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Agra is a very good place. Very nice place. There are devotees. (indistinct) goes there.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We can attract a lot of tourists because Agra always has a lot of tourists. I'm thinking of having a pandal there and Ludhiana.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Delhi we had one last year.

Prabhupāda: Preaching must go on vigorously.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Especially book distribution is getting very strong with Indians.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Preaching means book distribution. Now utilize here this flag ceremony.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That means knowledge.

Dr. Patel: And I think, sir, even Śaṅkarācārya has not meant that we must be short of that. He was also worshiping, was he not? He was worshiping Para-brahman.

Prabhupāda: He has given a commentary on the Bhagavad-gītā. In the beginning he says nārāyaṇaḥ paraḥ, "Nārāyaṇa is transcendental."

Dr. Patel: But these fellows are misinterpreting later on.

Prabhupāda: The whole world is full of demons. And they are demons. Who declare himself, "I am God," he's a demon.

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You arrange, I will advise her. I am not proud, but I am the authority at the present moment. It is not pride. It is the fact! So let her take! Let her understand. The authority is there. And what is understanding? It is simple truth. Everyone can understand. Any child can understand. There is no difficulty. We make it difficult by our rascal interpretation. And that is very simple thing. Kṛṣṇa says, aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). So there must be somebody, original person. You are existing, you are coming from your father. Your father coming from his father, his father, his father... Now, who is the original father? There must be somebody. You may or may not know. So here is the answer: aham ādir hi devānām. So why don't you take? Where is the difficulty? If you are finding out who is the original person and the original person is presenting Himself and He is being accepted by great authorities—formerly Vyāsadeva, Nārada, Asita, Devala, and later on Rāmānujācārya Madhvācārya, and all big, big stalwart ācāryas, Caitanya Mahāprabhu—so why don't you accept Kṛṣṇa the supreme original authority? What is the difficulty? The fact is very plain, but I'll not take it. If I misguide myself, then who will guide me? If I sleep while I am not sleeping, then who will help me? Take Kṛṣṇa's instruction. If Indira Gandhi... I know she is intelligent, she is religious. Let her follow strictly the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. Just his, all her ambition, all her programs, will be successful—if he's (she's) serious.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: First of all we must attract people, then give them prasāda. If you have no power to attract them, then how..., what is the position? Program means men will do. If there is no men, who will do this program?

Girirāja: In that area, in Thana, they drink at night.

Prabhupāda: Let them do whatever nonsense they are doing. Let them chant and take prasāda. We don't mind what they are doing. That is later on. When I was chanting in Tompkinson Park I never asked them that "Don't come here. You are drinking." Everyone was drinking. (laughs) I know that. Everyone had illicit sex. They were coming with their boyfriend, girlfriend. I didn't know that? Was I going to restrict them from? Let them come, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu stressed on this, mass kīrtana every night. He was not speaking philosophy. Philosophy with Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, not with the mass of people. Mass of people—"Come on! Chant!" Give prasāda. This was Caitan... What they will understand, philosophy?

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Playing, joining. Get, be alive, be alive. Like that.

Hari-śauri: Is that Jarāsandha?

Pradyumna: Then translation, "In the womb of two other wives, two parts were begotten from Bṛhadratha. The mothers, seeing such parts, rejected them. Later on, one she-demon by the name Jara joined the parts." Then sounded like "engaged"?

Prabhupāda: Playfully.

Pradyumna: Playfully, "joined the parts playfully"?

Prabhupāda: Joining playfully.

Pradyumna: Then she said, jīva jīva?

Prabhupāda: "Get into life! Get into life!"

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No one will. It is not at all difficult. The principles, the regulation we have started, it will automatically bring them to that stage.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: When one chants sincerely and attends all the temple programs, then automatically one...

Prabhupāda: (sharp rapping sound: light switch flicking on and off) No electricity. Stop this fan.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Stop the fan? Śrīla Prabhupāda, I may not be going to the Kumbhamela. I'm going to stay in Bombay and later on go to Delhi and Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. There is Gurudāsa and there others.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Because there's lot of work to do, and I'm printing lot of books now, so...

Prabhupāda: No, you stay here.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Our visitors, they have got facility to come?

Gurudāsa: Yes. We have Life Member tents, and some visitors have been coming. I have been receiving them. So we have... There's one thing I wanted to ask you. A lot of youths are coming, Western youths, some hippies, but mostly clean. Some hippies. But there are two hippies, and I saw what they were like, and I didn't allow them to stay. But mostly our camp is... Until the devotees come, there are some tents that are empty. So they said, "We need a place to stay. Is it all right?" So I said, "Tonight you can stay. Then I'll let you know later on." And we preached to them. We have a morning program there, and we have an evening program. So they attended. So I thought with your permission I could erect some tents, not in our living area... The chokidhars I put outside, right on the gate, because I didn't think they should live in our area, but they should be there, so the chokidhars have a tent. I thought behind the pandal I could erect some tents, or even behind our tin where people wouldn't see them so much, we could invite some guests, charge them something for living and preach to them.

Prabhupāda: Hm. But they smoke.

Gurudāsa: Yes, some will.

Prabhupāda: That is bad.

Gurudāsa: So, I mean it's up to... I'm asking what you think.

Prabhupāda: They will drink; they will smoke; they will not take bath. These are the defects. These people are unclean.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Medical science do not accept the soul. Then how it is possible, next birth?

Dr. Patel: They have to accept. In the teaching of physiology, what we call certain vital forces which we don't understand, they are, this is nothing but God there. What is vital force? What is vital force? It's the soul, sir.

Prabhupāda: Vague idea. Not clear.

Dr. Patel: They will become clear later on. Slowly, slowly, the cloud is clearing away from them.

Prabhupāda: No, when... There is clear idea already. Nothing is going to happen, but because they are less intelligent, therefore next stage is when their intelligence will happen. Things are already there.

Dr. Patel: The greatest scientist of the world, Einstein, was a great believer in God, and he was a moral just like a ṛṣi.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I have seen his picture.

Dr. Patel: His behavior was that of a sādhu.

Gurudāsa: Simple. He lived simply.

Dr. Patel: Not only simply, but he never worried much about things. When he was asked in Christian university how much money he would want paid when first migrated to America, he said, "What is the standard of living here?" (indistinct)

Trivikrama: But still, the tendency... Kali-yuga means their tendency is away from...

Dr. Patel: It is Kali-yuga for all of us, for the good and the bad.

Prabhupāda: Kali-yuga means mandāḥ. Mandāḥ-two meaning. One is "slow"; another meaning is "bad." So mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā (SB 1.1.10). Four times this word used: mandāḥ, sumanda-matayo, manda-bhāgyā.

Dr. Patel: But one thing about Kali-yuga is that by doing small amount of good work or doing little bhakti, it has a greater amount of benefit than you would get otherwise in Satya-yuga, Dvāpara or Treta. Is it not, sir? No...

Prabhupāda: Good work or bad work, you have to enjoy, good or bad.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Trivikrama: We can kill our parents even, like Prahlāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is actually required. Prahlāda did not protest. It is a great sin, if your father is being killed before you, if you do not protest even, "Why you are killing?" not to give protection. But even if you do not, then you are not worthy son. So in that way Prahlāda Mahārāja was accused that in his presence his father was being killed. He did not protest, neither he... Rather, he was ready with the garland: (laughter) "As soon as my father is killed, immediately garland the Lord." So that is not the fact. And he is... Later on, he requested that "My father was a great offender. So kindly give him protection." So he's not..., that son. He knows... He knew that this, "My father is being killed by the nails of my Lord. It is his great fortune." Why shall he protest? He's seeing that "My father is being released from this material existence." Why shall he protest? And still to confirm it, he requested the Lord that "This, my rascal father made so many offenses..." But for him he did not ask anything, but he's such a good son that for demon father he requested. So how much faithful son he was, this is the proof. Not that he was unfaithful to him. He knew it, that "Let my father's body be separated from his soul by the Lord. That is good for him." And still to confirm it he personally requested that "My father may be excused." "Why your father? Your father's father, his father, everyone, up to fourteen generations."

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Whenever... You take?

Hari-śauri: Well, we'll all take in that other carriage, and you can eat undisturbed. I'll remain here or whatever you want.

Prabhupāda: I may take little later.

Hari-śauri: Well, we can take later on.

Rāmeśvara: So I found out that people spend more money on records than on books in America. That means that if we sell our record in the store, it can bring us a lot of income. In general, people spend more money on records.

Prabhupāda: So you get more income. For using it, let them come and take prasādam. Don't accumulate money.

Rāmeśvara: No.

Prabhupāda: Get money and spend it.

Rāmeśvara: Prasāda distribution is the best thing.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: No, it is... They are saved from becoming like you or hippies. You'll become hippie after going to the college, so they are saved. You'll become naked and you'll have, like cats and dogs, sex on the street. But these children are saved.

Rāmeśvara: But what if they change later on in their life?

Prabhupāda: They have become Kṛṣṇa conscious from the very beginning. That is the perfection of life. They are perfect from the very beginning of their life. And you are going to school, college; you are becoming most uncivilized, cats and dogs. So what is the value of this education? Phalena means result. Result is hippie. So what is the use of Western... Stop all these colleges and universities. The sooner they are stopped, it is better for the human beings. We want to stop it.

Rāmeśvara: Of course, if we tell them that, then they will think that we are anarchists.

Prabhupāda: First of all you say that we want to stop this nonsense, that is the name of education producing hippies. We want to stop it. You may take us whatever you like. We want gentlemen, not this hogs' and dogs' naked dance. You are hogs and dogs; you accept. But we cannot accept. We are birds of the same feather. We are cleansed. Let them become hogs and dogs. But the civilized(?) thing must go on. So we want to stop this. Is that education?

Room Conversation on 1976 Book Scores -- January 16, 1977, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: Oh. So then bring him. That's all right.

Rāmeśvara: So I can read this and summarize it...

Prabhupāda: Later on.

Rāmeśvara: ...if there is anything interesting. But this is something that's nice. (break) ...this one first. This is the total sales.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Rāmeśvara: For the year 1976. It lists... The first section lists all the Caitanya-caritāmṛtas title by title, all seventeen volumes. So last year we sold 55,000 copies of Caitanya-caritāmṛta.

Prabhupāda: All parts.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Gurukṛpā: Yes. In Los Angeles. They have only for boys, young men, age seventeen, sixteen, eighteen, nine... Their parents take them, and they let them out of the car, and they pick them up later on in the night.

Prabhupāda: Advancement.

Gurukṛpā: Yes. Advancement of the pig.

Prabhupāda: It is horrible to hear even. Therefore para-upakāra. The rascals are less than the asses and dogs. Therefore to give them Kṛṣṇa is the best para-upakāra.

Gurukṛpā: Yesterday, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you were speaking about a man who becomes very educated but he can't get a job. He becomes like a dog. Well, I was reading in the paper that this one man in Sydney, he put an ad in the newspaper saying, "I will become your house dog, because I think a dog's life is better than my life because I cannot get a job. So now I want to have a job as a human dog. Anybody want to hire me?"

Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause) If these people are making against our movement, so we should not be surprised. The parents who are leaving their children, dropping their children—"Yes, go and have homosex dancing"—if such parents protest against our movement it is not at all astonishing. But we should not stop it for that reason. This is apparent. So this thing should be brought in the court, that "This is the parent. The parent also requires this brainwash. Why the sons and daughters only? The father, mother..."

Room Conversation -- January 28, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: But is it possible to also learn spiritual truths from this..., from representatives on the subtle plane?

Prabhupāda: There is no question of subtle plane. You are on the gross plane. You first of all study gross things, and subtle, we shall see later on.

Pṛthu-putra: Of course, that was never a doubt. That's just the way I came to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And when I saw you...

Prabhupāda: So the guru is the representative of God. That's all right. Then what is your misunderstanding?

Pṛthu-putra: So then after I had some other things. For example, when I went to Egypt, in these pyramids one day I had some kind of contact on the subtle plane with persons who were supposed to live inside of the pyramids, and they gave me some kind of instructions.

Prabhupāda: Inside of the pyramid?

Pṛthu-putra: Yes. That was (wasn't) in the dream. But people, they were quite clear.

Prabhupāda: These are just like we know gold and we know mountain...

Room Conversation -- January 28, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Pṛthu-putra: Yes. I have met also life members saying things like this recently here.

Prabhupāda: So simply hear them. That's all. One big barrister, he was my friend. He is dead, M. C. Chatterji. He's a very big barrister. He used to charge sixteen thousand rupees for one appearance. So he was stating about when..., that he came to Vṛndāvana, and he met one boy, and "He asked me some sweets, I gave him sweet. Later on, when I was coming back to Delhi, I saw that boy was running on the train." He said. Such a big barrister, he said like that. "Oh, he was so..." Posturing like this. What can I say? "Kṛṣṇa as cowherd boy was running after you in the train?" This is going on. Another friend's wife, she came to Jagannātha Purī. So Jagannātha Purī, those who are rich men, they are allowed to go near the Jagannātha. So that lady said that "While I was circumambulating, Jagannātha was snatching my cloth." Jagannātha became so much attached with that blackish woman that He began to snatch his (her) cloth. So many stories I know. So what can be said? "Why did you not remain with Jagannātha? Why you came back?" This is going on. So I have got experience of many such stories. Kṛṣṇa as cowherd boy was running with his train. I have to take. And Jagannātha was snatching her cloth. They are very poisonous things. I was never fortunate with such incidences. I am simply trying to carry out the order of my Guru Mahārāja. That's all.

Room Conversation -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Oh. Well then that is all right.

Pṛthu-putra: But when we start to explain the meaning, then they're a little bit suspicious because they don't tolerate other type of religion.

Prabhupāda: No, no, why...? Let them chant and take prasāda. This preaching, that's all. Later on, when they're a little advanced, then talk of philosophy. Otherwise there is no need of philosophy. If they are, some of them, educated, they can read the books voluntarily. But general process is anywhere, any part of the world, you simply give them chance of chanting and take prasāda. That will be peaceful.

Devotee (1): Prabhupāda? Is it possible to see the lot of films now? (?)

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So if just after Māyāpur festival, if you go to...

Gargamuni: From Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pradyumna: You're going to go to Haridaspur after that? Or no?

Prabhupāda: That we can go later on. This is very important. Manipur we want to make a very strong center, because it is Vaiṣṇava state.

Gargamuni: And kṣatriyas.

Prabhupāda: Kṣatriyas.

Gargamuni: We can raise an army over there.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes.

Gargamuni: To protect the temples from the demons.

Prabhupāda: So in March, if we go...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It will be nice in March.

Prabhupāda: By the middle?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, sometime in the middle.

Prabhupāda: Then we can arrange.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: And maybe from there, on our way by road, we know some people in Shillong. And maybe from Imphal you can go to Shillong for some programs, in Shillong.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: 'Cause that is important city, very big city.

Prabhupāda: Shillong is Assam.

Gargamuni: In Meghalaya

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's now Meghalaya. Yes.

Gargamuni: Now Meghalaya. But it used to be a British capital. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the children. They're not attacking the children. Otherwise they cannot keep four ferocious animal in a place. They'll fight and they will kill one in order to... You were at that time there?

Nanda-kumāra: No. I was in...

Prabhupāda: So you keep this later on, do the needful. (end)

Morning Walk -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That is also another foolishness. How much water he'll carry by pipe? (aside:) Where is pole. Take water from God. That is sufficient. Navadit tarims ca.(?) When there is water supplied by God, where there is no need of water there will be water. Just like on the hills, on the mountains, there is no need of water. In the ocean there is no need of water. But the God... "All right, take water here also." That is God's gift. You rascal, how much water you have got that you transport by pipe and this and that...? All rascals. Mūḍha. They can simply address as rascals. That's all. They can simply address as rascals. That's all. That is my language, always these are all rascals. Godless means mūḍha, rascal, duṣkṛtina. They will attempt so many things, simply waste their time and energy. Duṣkṛtina. Because they are rascals. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). And a human being should have intelligence, but they are lower, lowest status of the human being. Mūḍha, duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ narādhamāḥ. "No, the university education..." Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. Everything is analytically spoken. Why all these things? Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. Because godless, no intelligence. Anyone who is godless, he has no intelligence. This is the conclusion. They are intelligent amongst the similar rascals. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ (SB 2.3.19). He's intelligentsia among the dogs, among the camels, among the hogs, and the asses. They will praise them, "Oh, you are so intelligent. You are so educated." Not human being. Just like dog receives his master, "Gow, gow, gow, gow." (makes growling sounds) So what is that reception, dog's reception? Similarly, these intelligent men are intelligent amongst a class of men who are compared with dogs, hogs, camel and ass. They are not human being. If some man praises them that "You are so big. You are so big leader," he's also amongst this group. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ. This is grave thing. Let understand it, that anyone who is godless, who has no idea what is God, he is a rascal. Immediately take him that he's a rascal. He may be prime minister, he may be president, he may be scientist, but we shall take him as rascal number one. This is our first understanding. Bokā. My Guru Mahārāja used to say, bokā. So at that time I was thinking, "Everyone is bokā?" (laughing) Guru Mahārāja says, "Everyone..." "Even Rabindranath Tagore, he is also bokā?" Later on I could under..., "Yes. Everyone is bokā."

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No, accept, we accept, but we accept the real scientist, Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we are triumphant. We understand.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in an audience like that, in, let's say, one hour lecture, we cannot say that "You go to the temple and chant and do all these things."

Prabhupāda: No, that is later on. First of all you have to accept that there is original father. That is God. Now, how to realize that God, that is another detail.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we made an attempt... I made an attempt to show this, that bhakti-yoga is science, but it is a subtle science. But it has...

Prabhupāda: To understand God.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It needs to...

Prabhupāda: It is a science. It is the only science by which you can understand God. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55).

Morning Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: George Harrison.

Hari-śauri: ...Introduction from George Harrison.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And I have acknowledged his contribution and blessed him as good boy. And because he served Kṛṣṇa, then later on he became inclined to give us that house.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Has that house been transferred actually yet?

Prabhupāda: Never mind what is the... We are using it. If he says "Go out," we shall go out. What is that? We are not after property.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And he'll never say that.

Prabhupāda: No. I don't think he's so mean-minded. No. He's not mean-minded. He's a good boy. I've studied.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ravi Shankar has taken advantage of him. These two pūjārīs, the two brothers...

Prabhupāda: They're ideal.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So why you allow him to? "Why you change?"

Ādi-keśava: They say you're talking about religion...

Prabhupāda: It is not religion. It is... I'm talking of machine. Religion, you do not know what is religion. That we shall talk later on. First of all come to machine. Religion. What you will know about religion? You are animal. So what you will know? Animal has no religion.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They'll take that as an insult.

Prabhupāda: Yes, insult. The animals should be kicked with shoes and stick. Argumentum baculum. There is no argument for animals. Kick and stick. Beat him. That is the way of dealing with animal. You cannot request an animal very... "My dear dog, please do not bark. Sit down." Simply kick and give him stick. That is good. They're animals. Gentle behavior with gentleman, not with the animal. "You are so big, big animal, you are simply to be kicked and whipped. Then you'll come to your senses." Religion. Religion is farce. First of all explain why you cannot do this machine. You are very proud of machine-making, artificial. "Why artificial intelligence? Why not real intelligence?" Intelligence also material. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhiḥ (BG 7.4). The buddhi. It is material, subtle form of material energy.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Ādi-keśava: They're hired men. This is the case of one of their men who was later held for murder of another man. He was used in a deprogramming, and then later on, some months later, he murdered some man and went to jail for it. So they're very serious. It's not just philosophical arguments. There's a list here in this book we've made of the devotees in our movement who've been taken. This list is very recent, by temple. You can see in practically every temple they have taken some devotees, some who are..., most of them are back in our movement, but some who are not. But now their tactic is this legal thing. Now they get this legal conservatorship, and then even we go and save the devotee, we take them back, the police can come and arrest us. So in these cases we are finding that the only thing to do is sometimes to go and physically drag them away and hide them until the term of this thing is up. Another thing is we are giving, as we said yesterday, some asylum in other countries, like with Canada. And one thing is that the Indian government told me that they would give me asylum. The Ambassador told me that if I were to be held, the Indian government would give me asylum.

Prabhupāda: That is very good.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Thirtieth.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So that means there's still about another week until the 5th. March has thirty-one days. So there'll still be another week. And then there's a week in between Bombay and Kodaikanal. Kodaikanal(?) by 15th.

Prabhupāda: Fifteenth or later on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That can be later. At least by 15th, 20th, like that.

Prabhupāda: So let us go, our whole party.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want to stay in Bombay, stay until the... Is there any date until?

Prabhupāda: I don't want to stay anywhere. I want work.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So there's work everywhere. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Staying, I have stayed big, big palaces, big, big cities. That is now complete. I have no other desire.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Then because of that, Yayāti was cursed, because later on, the woman that threw her into the well, he, she became like a mistress.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They were friends. Then they became rivals. Hm. So that's all right.

Rāmeśvara: Then this is the painting showing Śukrācārya and his daughter, and they're cursing Mahārāja Yayāti. What's happening here is that...

Prabhupāda: No, Śukrācārya's cloth is why long? So?

Rāmeśvara: Too long.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Vasan dānto guror hitam. The word is used, dānta. Dānta means sober. Children are generally restless, and the brahmacārī-āśrama means to train him how to become peaceful. That is the first training, not that to make him very good scholar in grammar. It is not said there. That is later on. First thing is how to make him sober. What is that? Dānta?

Pradyumna: Dānta, from verbal root, dam. "Tamed, broken in..."

Prabhupāda: Tame. Tame. Just see.

Pradyumna: "Restrained..."

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Pradyumna: "...subdued."

Prabhupāda: This is the first training. Otherwise he'll not be able to advance.

Room Conversation -- February 27, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That's nice. All right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So this requires your signature and an initial deposit has to be made to open it.

Prabhupāda: So I shall do it. I'm talking with him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So later on you'll do it, and I'll bring it to them. Okay.

Rādhā-vallabha: This system of the money, I stopped that in Los Angeles. It was becoming prevalent that whenever they wanted to do some extra service, they would want money. So I told them if they want money they can't do it in service to you. It has to be something else. Otherwise the whole thing is spoiled.

Prabhupāda: No money.

Rādhā-vallabha: All right. I'll enforce that strictly. The only money is for rent and some small maintenance, eating. That's all.

Prabhupāda: And if we have got our own place, no rent even.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He had grants, money coming from the United States to support his research. So he was on opposite side, but we had a very interesting discussion. And he told me later on that he was a keen follower of Śaṅkarācārya. I said, "Why?" because I was speaking, "There are innumerable lives." I was giving examples that we are not as one, but there are innumerable forms of life depending on the level of consciousness, giving examples. scientific examples. So he answered that traditionally his forefathers, his parents, his grandfathers, became followers of Śaṅkarācārya, so he became some sort of addicted to it, but he said he's not one hundred percent follower of Śaṅkarācārya.

Prabhupāda: Individual. Where there is question of mixing? Śaṅkarācārya's mistake is that the spirit is a mixture, and in māyā state, they're divided. Is it not? So when the division is finished, then it is spirit. But Kṛṣṇa does not say that. He says in the past we are individual, at present we are individual, and in future we shall continue to be individual.

Room Conversation with GBC members -- March 2-3, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And if we find that there's good...

Prabhupāda: The devotees.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And if there's good reaction from the people in the city, then later on we can propose to install Deities.

Satsvarūpa: Then we switched onto other topics. There was a resolution that there will be no marriages of girls until they are sixteen years old, not before.

Pañcadraviḍa: What about the schools?

Gargamuni: That's for America.

Rāmeśvara: In America.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You will be invited. You stick to your position and train up your assistants and recruit more and more. We shall come out successful. Write books. You can take. Now yesterday Dr. Dattrey, did he say anything?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He didn't say much, but Dr. Sharma, he was discussing, and he was telling that he will definitely make an arrangement in Bombay Hospital for us to speak. But he was very impressed. And some life members came later on when the greeting of the pandal was finished. And some engineers also. They want to discuss something today also.

Prabhupāda: Recruit them. And speak in such societies. We have now our prestige and preaching. It will be very nice honor everywhere. So Kṛṣṇa has given you some talent. Utilize it. These rascals are misleading. Although the instruction is there, they are misinterpreting in their own way, misleading themselves and misleading others. They say the name of God. They do not know what is God, although God is explaining Himself. Such a rascal. God is explaining, "Here, I'm God." He is accepted, and they do not... When you ask them what is God: "That we do not know. Our God is (indistinct)." Such things are there.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Naśa means devastated, finished. Apakṣaya-naśa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "In your introduction to the Bhagavad-gītā you refer to Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianism and other religious faiths as sectarian designations, but isn't Kṛṣṇa consciousness just another kind of designation in order not to call it Kṛṣṇa-ism, another ism?"

Prabhupāda: No. That you have to understand later on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "What is the difference between a pure Christian, or at least a sincere one, and a sincere devotee of Kṛṣṇa?"

Prabhupāda: No difference.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Again why you are coming to renunciation? First of all come to the knowledge. First of all accept that within this body there is the active principle. Then whether it is required renunciation, no renunciation, that we shall discuss later on. First of all, we have to understand, as Kṛṣṇa says in the very beginning, that asmin dehe dehī. Within this body, there is the owner of the body. First of all try to understand. He is speaking on that subject matter. Dehī. Not on the deha. People should understand first of all this science. Then talk of other things. When we say "Two plus two equal to four," no scholar will deny it. "Yes, it is four." Nobody, no rascal will say, "No, it is five or three." Nobody will disagree, if it is science, if it is mathematics. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says within this body, the owner of the body. Who will deny it? Let them accept it. Then we shall discuss what is that owner, what is the nature of that owner. First of all let them accept it. They are accepting the machine as everything. Do you agree or not?

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But it doesn't matter. We shall elevate them to go back to home, back to Godhead. Whatever he may be. Striyo vaiśyas tathā śūdrāḥ (BG 9.32). Kiṁ punar brāhmaṇāḥ puṇyā bhaktā rājarṣayaḥ (BG 9.33). Simply by denying that "I am not śūdra," that will not help. But they must be elevated to the standard of brāhmaṇa. That we will talk later on. But we have to convince that "This world movement is going on to make the human society to the highest perfection of life. If you join, we can help you." To the perfection of life. On the basis of Bhagavad-gītā. There is no difficulty. That we can do. If you really want, there is a...

Bhakti-caru: They have got unions also, harijanas. How to approach the unions?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bhakti-caru: They have their unions. How can we approach the union and talk to the leaders?

Prabhupāda: Well, address him, that Dr. ... We are actually doing all over the world. Why not here?

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So? Now, this nationalism idea, so you have trace out the whole history. By introducing this nationalism, what improvement gave? Nationalism, the leader, it began in Europe, the Romans. They wanted to spread. Where are the Romans now? Carthagian, old history, Egyptian, Grecian, then, later on, Moguls or then British. So where are these groups? "Combined together, exploit others." That was, that means, a gang of rogues. Rogues and thieves, they... And by doing that, what they have actually done? The Romans, now their broken buildings are there. And people go to see the fun, how they used to enjoy. What is that called?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Coliseum. That's the Greek Coliseum, they...

Prabhupāda: By keeping one lion and fighting him and it is enjoyed. What is this? What they have gained? In this way, the privileged... Is it not subject perception? What Napoleon has done? Or Hitler has done? Or Churchill has done?

Conversation with Yadubara (after seeing film) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Yadubara: No.

Prabhupāda: Not yet.

Yadubara: It just came out.

Prabhupāda: Oh. We can produce more detailed film later on.

Yadubara: You asked us to make that one point, that we're not the body.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Yadubara: In Māyāpur last year you asked me to make that one point, that we're not the body. So we tried to do that only.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. That can be, and this..., done that.

Yadubara: Do you think there should be any sequel to this film? In other words, to carry on the philosophy?

Prabhupāda: No, you have given the evolution of from fish to plant, plant to insect, bird, animal. That can be little elaborately, evolution. Then human being, full consciousness. Now, this is the chance for understanding God. And if they are still kept in darkness like the animals, that's a dangerous civilization. Refusing the opportunity to the humanity. By knowing this, you can get out of this continual evolutionary process. That is anti-material world, Vaikuṇṭha world, where you can actually live. Na jāyate na mriyate vā. He does not take birth, neither dies, and dances with Kṛṣṇa. That is life.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Sharma: The Communism, doesn't believe in God, etcetera, etcetera. It is simply fabricated things of the populace. Even Karl Marx when he wrote, he didn't talk anything about God. It was Engels, who was a contemporary, a great philosopher, materialistic philosopher, he started infusing certain things about this. And later on, because of being dogmatic, being wrapped up in this scientific discovery, we're being misled, and they would take many things for granted.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: For example, my due respect for the medical profession, into which fortunately and unfortunately (indistinct) I have to tell this. Throughout the world not the best genetician doctor can prove to the soul of soul is the child of man. Nobody can tell who is the father. Medical profession. The real existence of his being is taken as sure faith. If the mother says, (indistinct). He takes it for granted, faith, (indistinct) praise the mother and calls so and so his father. Because he trusts.

Prabhupāda: Mother is called father?

Guest: No. Mother is trusted to take the father. Identity of father is known through the mother, not through any other method.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says that even the best genecists in the world who are teaching genetics, they cannot actually determine who is the father based on genetics. The only actual thing is the mother's saying.

Dr. Sharma: Faith.

Prabhupāda: That, we give the example.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Maybe, but for management if we have to send foreigners, there are so many difficulties. But if the local people are trained up to our philosophy and mode of life, then there is no difficulty.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. And this place actually is the place where Govinda (indistinct)... At the time of this Govinda temple it was started from here initially, from this place. And the Govinda temple moved to Imphal later on. But the king started here. This is the beginning of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission to Manipur, started from here, this Vishnupur, and later on moved by the king to the capital. So it is some sort of a historical place...

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...where Caitanya Mahāprabhu's...

Prabhupāda: Just... So we are ready.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And here is also...

Prabhupāda: When we go, we shall struggle all these place...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Morning Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no, what is, what is his conception about God?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He had a Kṛṣṇa...

Girirāja: Well, spiritually, he's on the verge of becoming a devotee. He is...

Prabhupāda: He has got attachment for Kṛṣṇa.

Girirāja: He has attachment. And he realizes that if he develops his attachment for Kṛṣṇa, that will solve all of his problems.

Prabhupāda: If you simply follow the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, the whole world will be perfect. That's all. But these rascals, they take Kṛṣṇa as fictitious. Such a rascal, educated man, that for "fictitious Kṛṣṇa," Vyāsadeva has taken so much trouble. Such a great writer and Vedavyāsa, and later on, all the ācāryas, big, big ācāryas, they have wasted time for something fictitious. Such a rascal. I say, "rascal..." (end)

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: One rupee, dozen.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Phew! Good ones?

Prabhupāda: And later on, '53 or so, we saw, one rupee, half a dozen.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very cheap.

Prabhupāda: So now they are getting fifty rupees. Time will come: even if you pay five thousand rupees, you won't get one mango. That is coming.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They won't be around anywhere.

Prabhupāda: That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Even you pay five thousand rupees, you won't get. And if you get, it is simply the seed; no pulp.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Pit and skin. That means it will be very difficult to execute patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (BG 9.26). There won't be those things.

Prabhupāda: Last problem(?). Better to go back home as soon as possible. One life, do all penances, all austerities. Simply stick to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, and the business is finished.

Conversation: Vairagya, Salaries, and Political Etiquette -- April 28, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Because they have no valid philosophy. It is simply official. They have nothing, no knowledge, no nothing, simply that dress and cloth. That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like the original... When Jesus was there and he had twelve disciples, they simply gave up everything and traveled with him and tried to preach. So they were renunciates, living simply whatever they could take, nothing more, and devoting their lives to God. But the followers later on, more and more they added the degree of sense gratification, till now you can't see any renunciation at all within their order.

Prabhupāda: No, they are drinking. They are having homosex. They are encouraging homosex, giving man-to-man marriage. You know that? This is going on. Doing everything nonsense.

Girirāja: Actually their leader...

Prabhupāda: And they are concluding that they cannot stop committing sins and Jesus Christ will take account for them. Therefore it is very good religion, that "We can do whatever nonsense we like, and if we keep our faith in Jesus Christ, then we are saved." Pāpa-buddhiḥ, nāmno balād pāpa-buddhiḥ. Great offenders. So what news?

Conversation with Vedic Astronomer -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: What is your idea of the seven planets, sun...?

Indian Astronomer: You see, planets, in our system planets comes in the history very late.

Prabhupāda: Very?

Indian Astronomer: Late, very. Because you won't find any reference to grahas in the Vedas. As a student of Vedas, I can guarantee that there is no reference to the grahas in the Vedas. Because nava-grahas are only important mantras, not they are (indistinct). So when because these things comes later on, Kalpa-sūtra, for those adopted the grahas and prepared the mantras from the Vedas for the grahas. So historically we must have come down. Now we'll find out in what date they are presented. Till now I was told all these things after only... I am also preaching Bhāgavata.

Prabhupāda: Now, where is the situation of the grahas in this planetary system? Whether sun is first or moon is first?

Indian Astronomer: Sun is first. Definitely sun is first because the moon is the reflection of sunshine. (quotes Sanskrit verse) Vedas say (Sanskrit).

Prabhupāda: Candrama has... Candrama has got his own light. It is not reflection.

Discussions -- May 20-22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Indian man (1): (Hindi) (Hindi conversation with scattered English) (long pause, bells ringing in background) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...in that paper he wrote, "In case I die, these three men will be trustees, and the majority will be effective." So that scrap of paper, Tīrtha Mahārāja kept it. And later on, Guru Mahārāja wanted to make a constitution, but he avoided. But actually after his demise, that scrap of paper was presented in the high-court, and property was given. That is the...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's... It was considered as a will.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No need of big, formal document.

Prabhupāda: He is the original founder. Automatically he wins. That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He recovered from that hernia operation.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, and later on, he did not undergo sur... He thought then doctor... After all, everyone has got sentiment. He thought it that "The doctor has been called to kill me." So he did not undergo the hernia operation.

Discussions -- May 20-22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Therefore I do not wish to leave Vṛndāvana.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: If by Kṛṣṇa's desire I survive, then we shall see later on. Otherwise...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One thing I feel is that if a lot of these devotees, good devotees, come, that seeing them will also... I mean, there's no doubt, if Kṛṣṇa wants you to survive, that there's lots of good work that can still be done. That's for sure. So much, of course, has... Everything you've given us is complete, but if Kṛṣṇa likes, then still more could be done. And I think that seeing these devotees will be enthusing. You said, everything depends on utsāha, enthusiasm. So enthusiasm for living also depends on nice association of nice devotees. So if these devotees come, you may feel enthusiastic. Maybe encouragement. 'Cause they're not going to accept very easily that you should not be present.

Prabhupāda: I think this cooler keeps the whole block...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, it does. It does. I keep the wooden doors separating your room and my office open, and my room is quite cool. Only a curtain is there. Air blows through.

Prabhupāda: So let it go on like that.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Indian devotee (2): There was meeting of Arya-samaj, so we went to attend that. They invited him there. And later on, they asked that the government should help them to open a big hospital there. And he said that "Because I myself do not use allopathic medicines, so how can I help you? How can I introduce? I believe in nature cure. I can't help. If you produce something, that nature cure hospital, my government will help you." He said, "I never took medicine in my life." Morarji Desai says. And he was in jail. He said that everybody was seeing that they were nineteen months in jail, and they have disease, some pain, and some this one, some this one. He said, "But I got something from there. I learned whole Bhagavad-gītā by heart. I was worshiping Kṛṣṇa. I was reciting Bhagavad-gītā in the morning and evening. I got something, whereas others, they have failed. They couldn't get anything. I took something from that jail."

Yaśomatīnandana: (reading) "Regulative rains not only help ample production of food grains and fruits, but when they combine with astronomical influences there is ample production of valuable stones and pearls. Grains and vegetables can sumptuously feed a man and animals, and a fatty cow delivers enough milk to supply a man sumptuously with vigor and vitality. If there is enough milk, enough grains, enough fruit, enough cotton, enough silk and enough jewels, then why do the people want cinemas, houses of prostitution, slaughterhouses, etc.? What is the need of an artificial, materialist's life of cinema, cars, radio, flesh and hotels? Has this civilization produced anything but quarreling individually and nationally?"

Prabhupāda: Like hog. (break)

Yaśomatīnandana: Why don't you still take advantage?

Prabhupāda: Still you can take advantage of it. What you are doing? Here is this nice statement. Here is the thought.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

rabhupāda: Hm. So it is always by His desire. (break) That conspiracy was... (break) ...also. I did not discuss.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You said that to us.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I gave some hint.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I could understand later on how it... Your hint I could understand more fully. Very subtle.

Prabhupāda: Very.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anyway, now we're trained to the point where that can never reoccur. Not... Never. That could only happen because we were so new at that time.

Śatadhanya: Due to ignorance.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Took advantage of us. It's like... At first we were mongrel dogs. Now we are a little bit trained to keep away all the disturbers. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...opposition of my constructing a temple in Māyāpur.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Did you not mention...?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh... Yeah, I haven't mentioned it yet.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Did this article come out after?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, this article came after. I could have mentioned, but it was just for general remark.

Prabhupāda: So let them issue later on, and you can make.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Sometime we are preparing, called, a brochure for this lecture series. We'll make it color. So I already have the outline in Boston. So we're titling, "Announcing a Worldwide Lecture Series on the Origin of Life in the Matter, sponsored by Bhaktivedanta Institute for Higher Studies and Founder-Ācārya His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda." And we have some colored pictures inside and a little also, synopsis of the theme, the topics. We said, "Chemical Evolution-A Molecular Fairy Tale," and we have about three or four lines describing what the lecture should be about and what is the main theme of the talk. And we also have photographs of four or five of us who are going to speak and a little background of the candidate. So we wanted to make it very official.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: "There was a blank. There was a void." Everything was blank. And the way he started, the foreword was given by a scientist called Crick, Watson and Crick. Crick is in Cambridge, and Watson is in Harvard. So these two men were the men who discovered the structure of the DNA molecule that they thought that may be life. And they got Nobel Prize for this. And Crick was writing in the first page, saying that "This is the way we have understood about life." But "Everything was started like that, from blank and a blank, blank. And somehow all these molecules get together and then it became Johnny later on." (laughter) And we can make a nice story out of it.

Prabhupāda: No.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They make such a story that sometime they make the little children believe and thought that it might be the fact.

Prabhupāda: Fairy tales.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, so we titled, called, Chemical Evolution-A Molecular Fairy Tale.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And we have developed...

Prabhupāda: (laughs) That is very nice.

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I took advantage, "Let me stay somewhere." I was loitering in the street, so I thought, "Let me stay somewhere. Then I shall see later on."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's exactly what you had, two hundred dollars. You had saved that money very carefully?

Prabhupāda: Not carefully. Anyway, I got it. I was never careful for anything. Whatever automatically comes... I was never careful. "As the Jew, I have to save..." No, no.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A long way up to 55th Street. It's quite a change from that humble apartment to...

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...big, big buildings.

Prabhupāda: On First Street. The First Street was there. I was in between the First and Second Street.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Gurukula Inspection -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is the problem. Keep place ready, but you have to bring students.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're not going to come of their own. We have to go out and get them.

Prabhupāda: They will come later on, when they will see: "Yes..."

Yaśodānandana: First we have to get the ISKCON students first.

Prabhupāda: ISKCON or FISKCON, bring students. (laughter)

Dr. Sharma: Prabhupāda, these students can come, any number you like.

Prabhupāda: So that I want. I want the number. It doesn't matter ISKCON or FISKCON.

Dr. Sharma: No, I mean to say, free, no charge.

Prabhupāda: That means they'll not come from such a good family.

Letter from Yugoslavia--'Books!' -- June 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali conversation)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Will you let Vṛndāvana see the will when he comes?

Prabhupāda: That I shall see later on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So I won't...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I have a rough copy. I will not show unless you say something to me.

Prabhupāda: No, no. No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay.

Prabhupāda: You can... You are making that copies?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, tomorrow morning I'll have to get the copies...

Prabhupāda: So you can keep few copies more.

Conversation about Old Days in Calcutta -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Which devotional qualities particularly did he...?

Prabhupāda: Because later on he retired—he was a pleader—so whole day and night, simply devotee. Sometimes he would offer obeisances to the Deity. Actually he was old man. He'll fall asleep by... And he would remain in that two, three hours.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Two or three hours? Wow. Wow. Completely devoted.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. And daily he would go to the Ganges.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What was his name, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: His name was Nanda Dulal Phaini(?). So yesterday I was thinking of him, and I said it in my... I am being purified by thinking of him. All of a sudden.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, the whole atmosphere... Because we were children, we were going here and there, the neighboring hoods (neighborhoods), all houses... Everyone devotee.

Conversation about Old Days in Calcutta -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You had a paternal guru?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I was initiated by that professional guru at the age of twelve years. Later on I rejected him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I wonder if he had any thought that his disciple, Your Divine Grace, would be one day such a devotee all over the world. You always said that's the perfection of a guru, if he has good disciple. So your professional guru had a best disciple.

Prabhupāda: Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī later on, when I was young man, manager in Dr. Bose's laboratory... That my friend, Narend Mullik, he took me. There is direction. For real guru one can give up this professional guru.

Bhu-mandala Diagram Discussion -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So far, we have stayed in the Bhū-maṇḍala. We've now just picked the cover of Bhū-maṇḍala. We were thinking to do one more. We can do it later on, one more drawing to give it more detail, because the centers Meru and Jambūdvīpa and salt ocean are so small on this map you cannot even see it. So we want to...

Prabhupāda: Hm, in detail.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We want to blow up one area like they do on some maps. They show one city bigger than other places 'cause it's important. And after that, our next business is to now go upwards. Now we've gone outward this way. Now we have to show the sun, the moon, the sapta-ṛṣi, everything like that. That'll be very nice doing, how the sun is...

Yaśodā-nandana: Another unique feature of this map is that... Bhakti-prema Mahārāja found about... There is one space which is mentioned by Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura in his commentary. The complete diameter from west to east and north to south, it is calculated to be 500,000,000 yojanas. In order to be able to adjust that, we needed 250,000,000 on each side.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means 4,000,000,000 miles.

Prabhupāda: That I have given there.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They said, "We could not understand that it is vegetable."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They must have been laughing.

Prabhupāda: Later on, after eating.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Some of them were fish-eaters.

Prabhupāda: Fish-eaters? Ninety-nine (percent).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Harikeśa's report was very encouraging.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All over the world the reports are all encouraging.

Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa's grace. (long pause)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think we should wait another day for that Lassicks(?) tablets.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That does not...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes, you know, when a person is arrested, it doesn't mean he's guilty, but they have to arrest him. Then, later on, it's taken up in court whether or not he's guilty.

Prabhupāda: Gun is kept for protection.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anyway, it will come up in court. That's a formality, that when you shoot someone they arrest you. Whether you're right or wrong, they have to take you to court. Probably the dacoits pressed some charge also. Who knows? Jayapatākā's report will be coming with..., more fully... Actually I would have waited to tell you, but because Śatadhanya will have to... They want him to go, so... They want Prabhāsa there right away. It may be that they want to say that Prabhāsa was there.

Prabhupāda: So both of them are going?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, Gopāla... His point... He said Jayapatākā wants Śatadhanya Mahārāja and Prabhāsa to go.

Prabhupāda: Then let them go.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You are always allowed. Sad-dharma-pṛcchā. This is one of the duties of devotees. Sad-dharma-pṛcchā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says that they're going to try... As long as they can make busts, he says, "We would like to make them larger than life size, in the monumental style, which would include your lotus feet." Full size for museums and other places. Big size. Anywhere where people want to display. But it won't be worshiped. It will be on display. So that's one letter. If you're feeling tired I can read more later on.

Prabhupāda: No, that's all right.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe later on I can read some more of these to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They are very ecstatic. Yeah. Later on I'll read more to you. We haven't even touched this section. This is the list.

Prabhupāda: So send Gargamuni many thanks for arranging in the libraries. Kṛṣṇa is blessing him. Organize in Bombay office very nicely, and arrange for printing enough stock. All money collected should be invested immediately. This is giving me new life, all these. Somebody is proposing to give us some dairy land? Dairy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dairy land in Agra?

Prabhupāda: Agra?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I heard also someone was proposing. One man who's staying here now is proposing four acres in Agra. They went today to see it. I think Bhagatjī went and also Akṣayānanda Mahārāja. They'll give you a report on it.

Prabhupāda: Supply of ghee from that dairy land would be very good.

Room Conversation Gaurasundara, Dr. Kapoor -- July 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Jñānaṁ te paramaṁ guhyam. Sa-vijñānam. This word is there. Paramaṁ guhyam. Paramaṁ guhyaṁ sa-vijñānam. (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Probably it will be held October 28th, around that time.

Prabhupāda: So they wanted to hold this conference here, and later on, we decided Bombay... (Hindi) Let them decide.

Dr. Kapoor: (Hindi) ...place for this kind of ...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bombay.

Prabhupāda: Many... He has met with big, big institute, Bose Institute, head of the, and they are appreciating, "Yes, please go on describing."

Room Conversation Gaurasundara, Dr. Kapoor -- July 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: All right, wait.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll wait. I'll order a copy. These are only four pictures practically I have to show people.

Dr. Kapoor: That's all right. Later on. (break)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Prāṇa āche yāṅra, sei hetu pracāra.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, will you be taking your massage this evening?

Prabhupāda: Um hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's about 8:30 now. Maybe we should... We're about an hour behind. That report was so ecstatic that we forgot the time. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...without any venue. That is something. "And what is this? This is Vedas?"(?) Sarcastically, humorously... Why people have become so rascal?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not better than any cockroach.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Less than a cockroach.

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He can come and go.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. "The Singhalese and Tamil translations are going on slowly but surely. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will be a tremendous success here. Simply books are required." He says, "To be swami is all right, but I also want to be a qualified gosvāmī some day. Is it possible for me?"

Prabhupāda: Yes, you are already. You are doing very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "P.S.: When is the scientific conference led by Svarūpa Dāmodara? We have also called for a meeting on the 20th August in the biggest hall in Colombo and challenged Dr. Kovoor to be present and produce life from chemicals. I doubt, however, that he will show up. But the audience will be tremendous, at least twenty-five hundred people to be sure. At all our programs we distribute halavā profusely. People here have never tasted such a thing. They love it. Halavā beats chemicals any time." So I can read you more later on, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break) What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: On the whole, they ...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Come out very nice.

Gurukṛpa: Yes. This is very nice. Big, too. Thick.

Room Conversation -- October 9, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Plain.

Devotees: Jaya.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Regular strawberries. Just now?

Prabhupāda: Later on, little. What is the benefit of strawberry?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the benefit of strawberry?

Abhirāma: They're like grapes, similar.

Prabhupāda: Hm? Hm?

Haṁsadūta: I don't know the benefit of strawberries.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What nutritional benefit does strawberry give? Tejiyas says they have sugar in them, so it gives good energy.

Prabhupāda: Where is Tejiyas?

Hari-śauri: Right here, at the bed, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: You are coming from Hyderabad?

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So if Bombay is sufficient, don't bother in Delhi.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. I will do it slowly first of all to make sure that whatever we have done is going on nicely, then we can expand later on. But in India it is true that everybody I met, very respectful to Śrīla Prabhupāda's movement to what we are trying to do.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That much we want to keep. The people may not think of it as bogus.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Our chief guest for tomorrow has already arrived. And he's very impressed. I took a tour of our temples, also the Gurukula. And they're very impressed with the whole building and the whole program that we have here. Very nice. He brought also an architect. He's a retired engineer, Chowdury from..., together. Also we already have a mathematician from Delhi University for tomorrow. So I took three of them tour of our temple and gave them nice prasādam. They were very impressed.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This has never happened before, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You are the real ācārya for this age, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You perfectly know how to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You're making people who would ordinarily never take interest in Kṛṣṇa consciousness become devotees.

Prabhupāda: In the beginning, when I was selling Back to Godhead alone, I wrote one practical businessman, Mr. Bande(?) I think. He said, "Swamiji, why you have made Vṛndāvana headquarter? (laughs) It is not a place for..."

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Why not take the chance?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Also, while I was typing in the Connaught Place, some business man came and he saw the letterhead saying "Bhaktivedanta Institute." Then he asked me later on, "What is this institute?" Then I told him Prabhupāda's projects and plans. And he was very sincere and serious. He was a big businessman. And he wanted to help me in setting up one center in Delhi.

Prabhupāda: So take this opportunity. And we will supply the place, suitable place? It will be very prestigious in Delhi.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Delhi is like Washington, D.C.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have many offices. Similarly in Washington, D.C., they have many headquarters for these scientific and governmental organizations.

Prabhupāda: All embassies.

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think we'll give you another report later on. It's successful. That's a fact. Only these are suggestions how it can be improved. We'll speak with Svarūpa Dāmodara about it. (break) ...from the devotees in France, Bhagavān's zone. In fact, it's a four-page telegram. Should I read it? It says, "Dear Śrīla Prabhupāda, please accept our most humble obeisances at your lotus feet. Knowing how dear your book distribution is to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda, the devotees in France would like to humbly offer you the results of our week-long marathon saṅkīrtana, hoping in some way to please you." Śrīla Prabhupāda? The devotees there, they went out on book distribution for twelve hours every day. All the devotees. They went out every day for seven days in a row, for twelve hours each day. And here is the results of their distribution. This is only for this one temple in France. It says, "We have distributed 25,061 hard-cover Bhagavad-gītās in one week." Twenty-five thousand, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We usually print of a Bhāgavatam 20,000 for the whole society. They distributed 25,000 Gītās in one week in French, Bhagavad-gītās in French. He says, "...to the conditioned souls of this country in seven days. We hope that these results are the biggest in the history of your movement and that they will give you some solace. Our top distributor were Bhakta Richard..." (laughter) Somebody who isn't initiated yet. "...who distributed 1,504 big books in one week." Every day he distributed over two hundred hard-cover books. That's pretty good. (laughter) That means he did about say 240 in twelve hours. He distributed about one book every three minutes for twelve hours in a row, Śrīla Prabhupāda, every day. "Jagad-vaśī dāsa, who distributed 1,125 big books; Ariṣṭa-nāśana dāsa, 864 books; Veśa-kīrti dāsa, 851 big books; Akhileśvara dāsa 835 big books; Kṛpā-siddha dāsa, 760 big books." Then they say, "Thank you for allowing us to assist you in preaching this message of Lord Caitanya in the Western countries. All glories to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Your humble servants, the devotees in France." Pretty big distribution. Bhagavān estimates that they collected over sixty thousand dollars in one week. It's amazing. Seems like Kṛṣṇa is giving unlimited facilities to spread His glories, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We do not want liberation. We want to serve the purpose of the Gosvāmīs, in association with pure devotees. To stop birth and death is not our purpose. Tāṅdera caraṇa-sebi-bhakta-sane bās, janame janame hoy ei abhilāṣ.

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. So let them.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. And then we have prasādam at seven o'clock. Then I'm going to show Hare Kṛṣṇa film.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What are you serving at seven? What kind of prasādam?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We have nice prasādam. I don't remember the menu, but I think they are very satisfied with the prasādam program that we have.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then after prasādam?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: After the prasādam we are going to show movies on the "Spiritual Frontier" in the hall on our Fairchild.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why not on a big screen?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, we can also do it on a big scale.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: 'Cause when you have a big...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, actually we can do that. Dr. Kapoor spoke for about five minutes...

Prabhupāda: Māyāvādī?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually he's very much influenced by Māyāvādī ideas, I realized. Then later on, he spoke to me that there is some misunderstanding. I told him that this is not what we have learned from Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)

Room Conversation -- October 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Chānā seemed good. Today you had the curd. It seems to have been all right. The cheese this morning, Prabhupāda. I don't notice any cough today.

Prabhupāda: Cough generates later on.

Hari-śauri: Yes. It usually comes about half a day or a day later.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh.

Hari-śauri: After it's been in the stomach for awhile.

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Why? There is already a building.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There is already a building here. Judging by the reaction... Of course, this is the first meeting, but...

Prabhupāda: Later on...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Later on it may be done, but for now it's better to concentrate in bigger cities, where we're sure of the response.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's asking for your...

Prabhupāda: Svarūpa Dāmodara?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Guide them.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They are simple people. That's the feeling I got today. So I'll pay him whatever he expended for coming here plus his airfare to go back to Calcutta. And probably I'll suggest that he leave tomorrow. He wanted to spend more time, but I told him that "Now you should do this business and don't delay now. This is not the time to take extra time. You can come back later on." Pisimā's son's name is Chandra? Hm. Bhakti-caru has his address. Is the diarrhea more or less stopped now?

Upendra: He hasn't...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Passed any stool?

Upendra: That one in the morning was only...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Little, little.

Upendra: Little, like Bhakti-caru said.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So tonight, Śrīla Prabhupāda, tonight you have not passed anything. Then you try to take something, drinking something.

Prabhupāda: I'm drinking something.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You give him the scheme and ask him if he wants to discuss this with me.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right. But I won't have the amendment to the scheme until tomorrow night.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Amendment you can give later on. You can give the scheme.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. I think I have a copy of it. All right. Yeah, that's good, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Then the letter will be better. I was thinking it should have... This first thing I write should include that scheme.

Prabhupāda: You give him the scheme. Ask him to come and discuss first.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I'll do that. It's not very difficult for him to come to Māyāpur. All right.

Prabhupāda: So they can go to the temple now, this saṅkīrtana?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Let us go to the temple? You want to go to the temple now?

Prabhupāda: Myself?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You mean the devotees here?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (chuckles) (pause) Do you want to hear some of the newsletter? It says here... This newsletter is written by Rāmeśvara. It's especially meant for encouraging book distribution, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It says, "Later on in the morning, Prabhupāda sent for Gopāla Kṛṣṇa Prabhu and explained to him that he wanted to print as many books as possible. 'My point is,' Śrīla Prabhupāda said, 'that I don't wish to keep money in the bank. Invest in printing.' So in this way, although... Then Prabhupāda went on, referring to Harikeśa Swami, after he presented six new hardbound German books to His Divine Grace, 'He is very intelligent boy. My Guru Mahārāja is so pleased. He used to say whatever money is there was to be used for printing books. He was so happy to print books. So you do it all very nicely. I printed my books, and now you do it. These are first class and there is no defect. German printing is very favorable. This is all right. Thank you very much.' It says here, 'Harikeśa Swami told Prabhupāda that now he has to become more healthy to finish the Bhāgavatam. Prabhupāda replied, 'Healthy? I have nothing to do with this body. I have to do with the spiritual world.' Bhagavān prabhu mentioned to Prabhupāda how many books his zone was distributing. They are trying for twenty thousand big books in one week. Prabhupāda was very encouraged and told him, 'Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī will give them all blessings. He wanted this very much.' An hour later Hṛdayānanda Mahārāja was in the room and told Prabhupāda that they had printed 100,000 copies of Kṛṣṇa book in Portuguese. Prabhupāda said, 'Thank you very much. Printing of books is our life force.' Prabhupāda looked through the books and again he asked, 'How many published?' When he heard 100,000, 'Oh, how they are selling, and what is the price? Very good collection? Print more books. This is life. This material body—only bones. So go on and this is life. We are not concerned with bones and stones. Our concern is the living force. The living force is actually sustaining these bones. Bones are not life. Print books as I have shown the way: half again for printing and half spent for propaganda as you like. In this way go on.' Then he turned to Jayapatākā Mahārāja and asked him if he was doing that. He told him, 'Whatever propaganda is needed, you go out and spend, but print books and distribute. Whatever English books we have got, if we translate into Bengali, you have got enough stock.' Jayapatākā Swami replied 'Yes, we have got a treasure house,' and Prabhupāda said, 'In this way, in all languages, distribute. Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.' " It says here, "Prabhupāda is translating the Third Volume of the Tenth Canto, and Volume Two is now just being printed and will be available for shipping to all temples on November llth along with a new book written by Śrīla Prabhupāda called the Teachings of Lord Kapiladeva. Fifty thousand copies of each volume have been published."

Prabhupāda: Fifty copies?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fifty thousand.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Room Conversation -- November 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: It will never be finished. When the date is being fixed?

Girirāja: Well, we fixed it for January lst and begin the ceremonies on December 29th, which is Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī's Disappearance Day. And... The ceremonies begin a few days before the actual installation of the Deities. So those ceremonies, or yajñas, those will begin on Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta's Disappearance Day, which is December 29th, in about six or seven weeks. And then, a few days later, on January lst, which is the English New Year's Day and Sunday, that will be the actual installation ceremony, and thousands of people will be coming. And we also discussed that there should be very opulent prasādam distribution, and different arrangements for receiving the people and kīrtana and darśana and festival activities.

Prabhupāda: Still work is going on.

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: (Hindi about different foods with Prabhupāda and kavirāja)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want to try some mālapuyās later on tonight?

Bhakti-caru: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: Prabhupāda will let us know. (Bengali) One too hot. Just like the way it was today. (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Shrikand. That's very good for you, Śrīla Prabhupāda, shrikand.

Prabhupāda: Oh, shrikand.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a good preparation for you, Śrīla Prabhupāda, very nutritious.

Bhakti-caru: (Bengali with Prabhupāda)

Prabhupāda: So, where is Bharadvāja?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bharadvāja is here, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So you can sing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Room Conversation -- November 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Here.

Bhakti-cāru: (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Like to hear it, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I could come later on if you think it's better.

Prabhupāda: No. (break) (Hindi) Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Give facility for him, ten rupees.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This gentleman?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ten rupees.

Prabhupāda: And some fruits.

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hired or purchased?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, for now just hired, not purchased. Later on we can make a more permanent arrangement, and it can be fixed up as nicely as possible. At the same time while we were meeting, the kavirāja, he also was present. So we inquired from him what he thought about this program, from a medical point of view of course. Spiritually he is in complete agreement. So from a medical point of view, he said that you would not at all be able to withstand this kind of a trip. He said that in a bullock cart, moving around, bumping on the road, you might not be able to live more than a couple of hours. He's here now. He wanted to speak to you.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Lokanātha?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Lokanātha has already gone, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Haṁsadūta: He has gone to Mathurā for renting.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He has gone out for renting the bullock cart.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Lokanātha says that the bullock cart could probably go around Vṛndāvana in about five to six hours, parikramming Vṛndāvana town.

Prabhupāda: Make an experiment. Then we shall decide.