Prabhupāda: ...consciousness, the next question. Now, this is the basic principle of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So for attaining Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there are several stages. The first stage is faith or inquisitiveness. Just like you have come to me. This is the first stage, out of inquisitiveness or some faith, that "These people are teaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We have heard it is very nice. Let us see what it is." This is the first stage. This is the first stage. One should be inquisitive and have little faith or little respect for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "It is very nice, they are speaking, doing nice work." This is the first stage. The second stage is that in the first stage, if you find it, it is interesting, then the second stage is to associate with us, to understand more. Just like we are having our classes three days in a week. We are having class morning daily, but for public we are holding classes in the evening from seven to nine in our temple. Perhaps you know. You have been yesterday there? So we are holding classes there and discussing on this book, having kīrtana, distribution of prasādam. So it is very nice. There is no labor. Simply you come, you hear nice songs, you dance, you take nice food, you hear nice philosophy, and you think over, and you may go home. We don't ask anybody that "You press your nose like this, you make your head down like this, make exercise like this." We don't ask anybody. But people automatically like to dance with us. Although dance is labor, but they like it.
Labor (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"labor"
|"labored"
|"laboring"
|"laborious"
|"laboriously"
|"laborites"
|"labors"
|"laborsome"
|"labour"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Karma means fruitive work. Just like you are laboring for some wages. You get your wages. Similarly, this material world our work is rewarded. Good work is rewarded with good benefit and bad work is punished. This is the law of karma.
Interviewer: And the other question is "Do you feel God is good?"
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: You can sit down. So everyone is working. Never mind in whatever occupation one is engaged. That doesn't matter. But one has to test whether he is becoming successful. Because everyone wants success. We are not animals that without any success we shall work hard labor. That is animals' business. Just like several times I have given the example, dophara gadha, the ass of the washerman. That kind of business and work is no use. Dophara gadha, ass of the washerman. Here, of course, you have no experience. In India there is a class who are called washermen. In India there are different castes. Washerman, a class; barber, a class. I mean to say... So many departmental. So each and every one, there is a class who take up that work. Sweeper, a class. All the necessities.
Prabhupāda: Now, do you think that after so much trouble, so much labor, if you go there and simply come back and be complacent that, "Oh, I went there," is that very great achievement? If you can live there, you can utilize that place, then it is all right. Just like so many Europeans, they came to America and not simply to see and go back. Why they settled here? That is successful. Columbus invented this island and people came and they utilized it. Otherwise, if simply coming and going, why take so much trouble?
Reporter: Well, that's a point.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They will pay nice money to hear us?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (reading letter:) "This can be made extensive by your team of followers from America arriving in..." They are greater. So Indian and American combined kīrtana, oh, it will be very nice. Big kīrtana, and every city will receive. And we shall preach that "Here is the common platform for everyone. There is no distinction of nation or religion or anything. Come to the platform." So the Mohammedans also will join. The government will appreciate that here is something secular, real secular; at the same time, God is there. Actually, it is that. All religious people, so-called religious, come here. And religion means this, to love, I mean to say, develop love of God. That is religion. What is this formularies? Simply formula that "I keep this, I copy that." That is not religion, simply by dressing in different way or sitting in a different way. Where is your understanding? You have no understanding of God. You simply formally attend some church or mosque or temple for some material benefit or for some, make some show, but where is your love of God? That is the test of religion, Bhāgavata says. A religious person means he has got complete love of God. Then he is religious. All right. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Simply wasting time. Bhāgavata says, without developing this love of Godhead, if somebody is engaged in religious ritualistic performance, he's simply wasting his time. Śrama... That particular word is used, śrama eva hi kevalam. Śrama means labor. Eva. Certainly, it is simply laboring. What is called? Labor of love? What is called?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Labor of love.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You love something and unnecessarily you labor. So religion means... This is religion, how to develop love of God. That is religion.
Prabhupāda: Then... That was... Caitanya Mahāprabhu already adored, He was. So, there is... Rathayātrā car festival, and Guṇḍicā-mārjana. Guṇḍicā-mārjana. Before the Rathayātrā festival, the system is Jagannātha goes from the temple to another place about two miles away. There is a big temple there also which is called Jagannātha Aunt's(?) house, Mahiṣī badi. So He stays there for eight days. Just like we make program in San Francisco to reside on seaside. So that temple was to be washed. Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to do it by His personal supervision. So all the devotees... And He will check how much dust you have recovered, and then you shall be rewarded. Otherwise, it should be understood that you have not labored nicely. (chuckles) So He'll sweep over the whole temple nicely and wash the ceilings and walls and everything so clearly. And He'll see in this way if there is any sand. If there is, "Oh, it is not washed." That means He would engage everyone. Then after washing, then call for prasādam and distribute Himself. This is called Guṇḍicā-mārjana. Actually, whatever He was doing, they were washing, "Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa," chanting. That's all.
Prabhupāda: When the cause is there, they throw it, everything, and go away. Similarly, this material world, the activities of the material world is like that. Somewhere digging and somewhere piling. Somebody is independent and somebody is dependent. Somebody is very luxurious, somebody's starving. So there cannot be any adjustment. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā the Lord says, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). We are digging somewhere and piling somewhere; so digging is also labor, and piling is also labor. Then, after finishing, we have to quit everything, digging and piling. So why people do not come to their senses that "What we are doing? Are we utilizing our time properly or wasting our time?" What should be the answer? If I asked these karmīs, "Why you are digging? Why you are piling? And why you are leaving?" Then what will be the answer? (pause) Can you say what will be the answer?
Guest (1) (Indian man): When digging the pile?
Prabhupāda: You are digging somewhere, and again make constructing somewhere, and then, after a time, you are leaving both and going away, shifting for another activity.
Prabhupāda: Just like... What to speak of ordinary man. President Kennedy. Oh, how much labor he had to undergo to occupy that post, how much money he spent to become president. But he had to quit his family, his wife, his state, his post. So this is going on. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). For sometimes we are engaged in this way; then again we are annihilated. Again begin another life, enter into another mother's womb, construct another body, then come out, then again begin work, again the same thing, digging and piling, digging and piling, again going away. Is that very good business? This is the karmīs. Karmīs means worker, fruitive worker. They want some result for their work. They are called karmīs. So the karmīs are engaged in this way. (Doorbell rings) In Bhagavad-gītā these karmīs have been described as rascals, mūḍha. Mūḍha. Because they do not know why they are digging, why they are piling and why they are leaving again everything. You can sit here, in the corner. I, I... Ask these boys, yes. This is the problem.
Prabhupāda: So why this point is not coming? This is ignorance. Just like animals, they do not know why they are laboring so hard. Just an ass. An ass is piled with cloth, you know? In your India. But whose cloth, why he's so much bearing burden? For a little grass only? That he does not know. Therefore he's called ass. Ass is working so hard, but he's not, he does not know if the cloth does not belong to him, but he's piled up with... (Aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. ...tons of cloth and he's bearing. He's bearing. Therefore they have been... These karmīs who do not know for whom he's working, they have been described in the Bhagavad-gītā, mūḍha. Mūḍha means ass. Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhaḥ duṣkṛtino narādhamāḥ, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuraṁ bhāvam aśritāḥ (BG 7.15). These things are there; in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find. Wherefore you are coming?
Gurudāsa: Bury Place.
Prabhupāda: You chant and you will understand. If you have no child, then how can you understand what is the labor of producing a child?
Guest (3): But then it is like saying that if you haven't ever leaped into a well, you don't know what will happen to you if you leap into a well.
Prabhupāda: First of all you do not know yourself. The first ignorance is that you are identifying yourself with this body, which you are not. First of all try to understand yourself, then you will understand what is God. You do not know yourself.
Guest (3): But I am God, right? I am God. You are God too.
Prabhupāda: You are dog.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. We should be businessmen. They should get less for their money. (laughter) We are to please Kṛṣṇa, not our customers. So if we are not increasing the price, then why should we increase the pages? Either we print in our own press or Japan, there is extra labor, extra energy. But we are not getting extra money. So there is no need.
Satsvarūpa: But, Prabhupāda, the point was, can there be more than one article by yourself? Or only one...
Prabhupāda: No. No. One. One. Everyone one, not more. One man's article, not more than two, either of mine or anyone. But so far our news is concerned...
Hayagrīva: Not more than two or not more than one?
Prabhupāda: No. Not more than one. Not more than one.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: I know. So that is the test. That is the test. Therefore it is a revolutionary movement. Even so-called followers of Gītā, they will be caught up by this movement as rascals. Because the real purpose of Gītā they do not know. Real purpose of Gītā is to know Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That you will find in the Bhagavad-gītā. Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan māṁ vadasi madhava (BG 10.14). And Arjuna says that "Whatever You have said, they're all right and I accept them in toto without any revision." So Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the Supreme Personality of Godhead." One who does not understand Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Person, what he has read Gītā? He is useless. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Simply has labored. That's all. That is the test. Don't you agree to this point? So anyone who does not accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he has no knowledge of Gītā. He immediately becomes foolish. That is our test. So Muktananda, what do you think?
Muktananda: Yes, Prabhupāda.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prof. Kotovsky: Generally it seems to me that this old varṇāśrama system to some extent practiced the nature of division of labor in ancient society. So now division of labor among people in any society is much more complicated and sophisticated. So it would be very...
Prabhupāda: Not complicated.
Prof. Kotovsky: ...conditionally(?) to group them in four classes because...
Prabhupāda: The, the confusion, confusion has come into existence because in India in later days the son of a brāhmaṇa, without having the brahminical qualification, claimed to be brāhmaṇa, and others, out of superstition or traditional way, they were accepted as brāhmaṇa. Therefore the Indian social order has disrupted. But our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are picking up from everywhere brāhmaṇas, everywhere, because the world needs the brain of a brāhmaṇa.
Woman Interviewer: I mean if someone in all seriousness wishes to find the spiritual life and happens to finish up with the wrong guru, I mean should they beware?
Prabhupāda: Yes. But... When ordinary education, to take ordinary education one has to devote so much time, labor, and understand, and if one is going to take spiritual life they must be serious. And how is that, they think that simply by some wonderful mantra within six months they become God? Why they want like that? That is... That means they want to be cheated.
Woman Interviewer: And how would one tell that one had a genuine guru because one would be told to give up certain parts of...?
Prabhupāda: That of course depends on the person who is really anxious for guru. Just like when you go to the market to purchase some thing, you test it whether it is genuine or not. Similarly, you have to test who is genuine.
Prabhupāda:
- (yasyātmā buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke)
- sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijyadhīḥ
- yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij
- janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ
- (SB 10.84.13)
So the world is under the bodily concept of life, so they are thinking that "We are Americans," "Indians." This is the disease. So they are described as animals, go-kharaḥ. Go means cow; kharaḥ means ass. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to save them from this animal consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means real consciousness, and without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, just animals. Therefore that Prahlāda Maharaja said,
- sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā
- deha-yogena dehinām
- sarvatra labhyate daivād
- yathā duḥkham ayatnataḥ
Dehātma-buddhi. So long we are under the concept of this body, that "I am this body," his business is sense gratification, because this body means senses. We have got varieties of senses. So the bodily concept of life means the senses are dominant. Therefore, beginning from the animals up to the human being, under the bodily concept of life they're busy simply for sense gratification. Nature is giving chance, "All right." Because everyone who has come to this material world, that is for sense gratification. Those who deny to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, they are sent here, "All right, you satisfy your sense by your labor here." Kṛṣṇa can satisfy His senses without any labor, but we have to satisfy our senses by dint of our labor.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That, that is sense gratification. That is sense gratification. Teṣāṁ kleśo vaśiṣyate. For that sense gratification, he's working so hard, spending so much money, but the result is that, taking labor is their business. That's all. No benefit, no other benefit. Teṣāṁ kleśa eva vaśiṣyate. Nānyat, yathā sthūla tuṣa-khaṇḍana.(?) Just like you have taken the rice from the paddy. So now it is only skin. And if you try to employ that machine, Deki(?), what is called?
Devotee: Thresher.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Deki(?) What you'll gain?
Prabhupāda: Deki, yes. Simply dag da dag da dag dak. (sound imitation) But the rice is already taken away. So their labor is being spoiled in that way. They, pleasure... For the pleasure's sake, they are spoiling the human facilities. This is their intelligence. Therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says: jaḍa-vidyā jato māyāra vaibhava tomāra bhajane bādhā, anitya saṁsāre moha janamiyā jībake karaye gādhā. This jaḍa-vidyā, this material science, is simply a hindrance to our progress of spiritual life. All these rascal scientists, they'll deny God. That is their business. Just like you said yesterday that somebody was accepting God, and the other scientists, they thought: "No, it is insult." So already they are in oblivion. They cannot understand what is God. And these rascals are making them more and more rascals. "There is no God." By their scientific research, the rascals are becoming more rascals. And they're becoming captivated: "This is pleasure." What pleasure you will do you with. Therefore they are, they are gādhā. They are gādhā and they are creating gādhās. That is the song of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Jaḍa-vidyā jato māyāra... It is expansion of māyā's illusory energy. The so-called scientific advancement is simply expanding the influence of māyā's illusory energy. They're already rascals and fools, and still they are being made rascals and fools. So they're forgetting their real purpose of life and the whole human life is spoiled. This is the result of so-called scientific advancement.
Brahmānanda: To confirm the symptoms.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Confirm the symptoms. If he says: "Yes," then immediately diagnosis is there. And as soon as diagnosis is there, the medicine is there. Simple method. Similarly, astrologers, they will see the constellation of the stars, and then the formula is there. "If this star is now with this star, if that planet is with that planet, then this is the result." So this Āyurvedic astrologer and physician requires little clear brain. Otherwise, very nice. The research work is already there. Just like we are. What is our research? Kṛṣṇa says: paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ (BG 8.20). "There is another nature." We believe it. We have not gone to another nature. But Kṛṣṇa says: "There is another nature, spiritual nature." This is, this material nature, inferior nature, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4), apareyam, this is inferior. Apareyam itas tv anyāṁ prakṛtiṁ viddhi me parām (BG 7.5). There is another superior nature. What is that? The living force. Who will argue? So we have got very easy method. And because we are receiving all this information from the most perfect, therefore our knowledge is perfect. That's all. And for all these rascals, śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Unnecessarily they're laboring. They cannot come to the right conclusion. Therefore harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāh. Oh, what is the good quality? If you unnecessarily work without any result, then what is your qualification?
Brahmānanda: Mūḍha.
Prabhupāda: They think that: "My danger is over. Because I do not see anymore." Yes. So many animals, they die. Monkeys, rabbits, they die. When there is danger, they close the eyes. That's all. So similarly these rascals, they cannot make any solution of these problems, therefore they set aside. Don't trouble. What is this advancement? They are constructing big, big houses with a hope they'll live in this house comfortably. But any day we'll be kicked out: "Get out." What he can do? Why he's laboring so much? Suppose if you are constructing some house, if somebody says that you are going to die tomorrow, will you do it?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I don't (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: There is already food. What is this? You are You have labor (indistinct). There is already food.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They're going to find more.
Prabhupāda: Why more? Let them eat all the fishes first of all. Rascal, what more? They would take all the fishes and eat first, finish it. Then, then search for another. Simply rascaldom. Simply to take money from the government: "I'm making some research."
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Cheating, simply. And the rascal government will supply money: "Yes." There is already food, sir. First of all you eat. Finish it. Then you make research for others. He cannot eat all the fishes even.
Prabhupāda: Kāma-karmabhiḥ. Avidyā-kāma-karmabhiḥ. They are creating a situation of suffering by unnecessary desire. That's all. So your scientific improvement means you are creating a situation of suffering. That's all. No improvement. You cannot. Kāma-karmabhiḥ, kāma-karmabhiḥ. They are working in such a way... Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura also says the same thing: anitya saṁsāre moha janamiyā jībake karaye gādhā. The so-called scientific improvement means he's already an ass, and he's becoming more, better ass. That's all. Nothing more. He's already an ass because he's part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, and he has come to this material world to enjoy. That is ass mentality. There is no enjoyment. So he's already an ass. And this scientific improvement means he's becoming more attached to this material world to remain better ass. Avidyā... anitya saṁsāre, anitya. He cannot stay here. Suppose, working very hard like an ass, he gets a skyscraper building, throughout his whole life, laboring. But he cannot stay there. He'll be kicked out. Is it not ass? Is he not an ass? He cannot stay there. Anitya saṁsāre. Anitya. Because it is not the permanent settlement. You are trying: dum dum. (sound imitation) Very strong foundation. That's all right. But your foundation is nothing. You'll be kicked out. Therefore he's an ass. That: "I'll stay here for twenty years." Why dum dum dum, foundation stone? Where is your foundation? Therefore he's an ass.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Anitya is temporary, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Yes, anitya means temporary. You cannot stay here. That they do not understand. They're making research, making research. And if we ask them: "What you are doing?" "For the next generation, future." And what about your, your...? You're going to be a tree next life. What you'll do with your next generation? But he's ass. He does not know. He s going to stand before that skyscraper building, a tree, for ten thousand years, and he's making: dum dum dum. Therefore he's an ass. He does not know where he's going. And he's making provision for the next generation. What is the next generation? If there is no petrol, what you'll do, next generation? And how the next generation will help you? You are going to be a dog, cat or tree. So next generation, how he'll help you? Jībake karaye gādhā. Therefore he's an ass. He does not know his personal interest. And making research work. What research work? Simply śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Simply laboring, what is called? Labor of love? Or what is that?
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: What do they charge per day?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are getting much more than the normal scientist because manual labor is very expensive here.
Brahmānanda: About seven, eight dollars an hour or something like that?
Prabhupāda: And they work for how many hours?
Brahmānanda: Eight hours. So fifty-six dollars, or fifty dollars per day. Who can earn, the scientists, fifty dollars?
Devotee: The brick-layers get a hundred dollars a day.
Prabhupāda: Just see. So why don't you become a brick layer instead of scientist? (laughter) You get more money. Dr. Bose, he called me... I told you. He asked me, "What you are doing?" "Now, I am going to the share market." So he immediately said, "Then what is the value of your education if you are going to the share market like the Marwaris who are illiterate?" Share market means to have some tricks how to sell and purchase shares. That by practicing anyone can do. It is not very difficult. (break) ... life from life. Make vigorous propaganda. Let them come to argument, scientific discussion. (pause) The man and woman in your country, they have got equal rights. Why not here? (laughter) In the lavatory? Why this discrimination, "woman," "man," why? Equal rights, must be equal rights. (pause) What is the basic philosophy for contraceptive action? Why do they prefer contraceptive method?
Prabhupāda: So how such big men, minister, could accept such position of a mendicant and live...? Now, gopī-bhāva-rasāmṛtābdhi-laharī-kallola-magnau... So they got a better thing. They dipped into the ocean of the gopīs' ecstasy. They were always thinking of the gopīs' activities with Kṛṣṇa. Gopī-bhāva-rasāmṛtābdhi-laharī-kallola-magnau muhur, vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. So unless one gets a better thing, he cannot give up the less important thing. So when, unless one gets that better thing—better humor, better mellow—they cannot give up these material engagements. Therefore, to get that better thing, it is advised that part of your hard labor you offer to Kṛṣṇa. This is called karma-yoga. You remain in your karma, but nirbandha, nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe, be touched with Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and spend at least fifty percent for Kṛṣṇa. Then, gradually, you come to the... Just like the Gosvāmīs came. So this is the policy. Otherwise, for Kṛṣṇa conscious men there is no need. Everything Kṛṣṇa will supply. Mādhavendra Purī installed a Deity. Now, for months, years together, only festival was going on. (pause) And another good example is that if somebody is in business and if he spends for Kṛṣṇa, that is a very good example for the karmīs. Because everyone is not going to stop their karmī mentality. So this will be an example, that "You are engaged in material. Now spend like this." That is another preaching. Loka-saṅgraha. This is called loka-saṅgraha, to collect ordinary men for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like Janaka-rāja, he was a king, but great saintly person.
Prof. Gombrich: No, I haven't, I'm afraid. No. And do you think that the message of Kṛṣṇa consciousness or Kṛṣṇa Caitanya is very different from the message of realizing God which is promulgated in other religions, for instance the Śaiva religion or...?
Prabhupāda: No I don't think so. Any religion, you follow nicely. Just Christian religion, there is God consciousness. So actually it is not this religion or that religion. People have given up religion. All over the world they have no more interest in religion. And especially I see that in your London that so many churches are vacant. Nobody's going there. So thing is that there is no more regular teaching of religious system. It has become a profession like. Neither the teachers are serious, nor the students are serious. So our principle is that not this religion or that religion. Whichever religion you may like, you can follow, but we want to see whether you are God conscious. If you are not God conscious, then we take it simply useless waste of time, these so-called religions. Śrama eva hi kevalam. You understand Sanskrit.
- dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ
- viṣvaksena-kathāsu yaḥ
- notpādayed yadi ratiṁ
- śrama eva hi kevalam
- (SB 1.2.8)
Śrama eva hi kevalam: "Simply waste of time, laboring." If one does not understand what is God, even after executing very rigorously about his own religious system, if he does not awaken his dormant God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he has simply wasted time.
Prabhupāda: That is very dangerous. Then you will all fall down. If you make a joint mess, if you go and collect something and then eat and sleep, then everything will be... Therefore I do not want to keep separate. The temple worship means there will be regulative principles, that you will have to rise early in the morning, you have to attend class, kīrtana... These things, as soon as you give up all these things, zero. Then it will be like karmīs, as they are, hard labor, collecting money, and enjoying senses. That's all. So that is the pitfall everywhere. In the church, temple, as soon as they get some nice income, then in the name of "priest," "sādhu," "sannyāsī," they do the same thing. Therefore Gosvāmīs, they left everything. That is the danger of viṣaya, viṣaya touch. Viṣaya chāḍiyā se rase majiyā. As soon as we give up this śravaṇam, kīrtanam, then it becomes viṣaya. Viṣaya means materialism. There is no spiritualism.
Gargamuni: Yes. We have to preach. (S.P. laughs)
Prabhupāda: Yes. If by the dress of sannyāsī, you take some money and eat and sleep, then it is transcendental fraud. (SP laughs) (Hindi) Just like others are toiling, and we are getting money by some dress. That's all. They are getting money by laboring hard, and we are getting money... In India, mostly the sannyāsīs, they do that. The priests also, they do that. This is our profession, just... My Guru Mahārāja said that ṭhākura dekhiye pāya rasta karache, rastaye 'yandiya jīvika badram karam bhari (?). Instead of earning livelihood by showing the Deity in the temple, it is better to take the profession of a sweeper in the street and live honestly. He said like that. The sweeper is working hard toiling and getting some money and living. This is honest living. But just like in Vṛndāvana, all the Goswamis. They have got their Deity. People are coming, contributing. Typical example, Gauracānda Goswami. Ṭhākura dekhiye paisa rasta. (?) All the sevaites, they are meant for... Our Kunja Babu also planned like that. He thought, "By cheating all the God-brothers, I have got now Caitanya Maṭha. And people will come to see Caitanya Mahāprabhu's birthplace, and I will get good income. And it will be distributed amongst my brothers and sons and myself. That's all." That is his scheme.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Physical is my outward dress. Just like your coat, if it becomes old enough, there is no more possibility to use it. You have to throw it away. You have to take another coat. Similarly, physically, I am spirit soul. When my physical body is old enough, useless, then I will have to give it up. I will have to accept another new body. But the question is that I am eternal; why I am forced to accept a body which will be useless after some time? That is the problem. I am eternal, as spirit soul. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). I do not die after the annihilation of this body. But why I am forced to accept another body, which will be annihilated? This technology is unknown all over the world. And still they are proud of becoming very advanced in science. (Aside:) Open this. Let them come. Keep it open. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānu... (BG 13.9). Come forward. (break) ...technology, although it is a problem. But we can supply this technology, to solve this problem. Jarā-maraṇa-mokṣāya mām... Jarā-maraṇa-mokṣāya. (break) ...modern technologist, scientists, they do not know what is the perfection of life. Now, they are thinking that having a big building, possessing big building, and possessing a few cars and nice bank balance, that is perfection of life. But suppose you get a very nice home, very nice big bank balance, and other amenities. But there is every possibility that as soon as you prepare all these things, you have to go away immediately, death. There is no guarantee that "After finishing this job, I shall be able to enjoy these things." At any moment you can be asked, "Get out." So this labor, so much labor for creating nice residential quarters, bank balance, and others, that is my futile labor because I could not enjoy it.
Karandhara: And enjoy, enjoy the fruits of your labor.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is done by the pigs. Whole day, finding out "Where is stool? Where is stool? Where is stool?" And as soon as he eats some stool, gets some fat, "Where is sex? Never mind, mother, sister, or daughter. Come on, sex." This is pig life, pig civilization. It is not human civilization. This kind of behavior is found amongst the pigs, amongst the dogs. Do you think we have to create a human society like the pigs' society? At the present moment, they're eating anything and everything like pigs, and they're having sex with anyone, never mind. So it is a pig society. There is no discrimination. (break) ...the most popular thing is this drinking, eating meat and drinking wine. Is that to be accepted because it is very popular?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they use transcendental meditation...
Karandhara: Charge card. Bank Americard.
Prabhupāda: Ah. So you simply show the card, you get the goods. So to exchange, it has become very cheap. So cheaply you can purchase. Therefore cheaply you can purchase sinful things also. The people are becoming sinful. The modern economy is, "Engage people in hard working to produce, and by artificial cheating, secure the goods, commodities." This is modern economy. So a worker is getting three thousand dollar per month, but he is getting paper. But he is thinking that "I am getting money." He is giving his labor, and things are being produced. This is the policy. "Cheat him. Without giving money, give him paper, and get his labor, and produce goods." This is modern economy. Is it not? A laborer, a worker, is given high salary, high wages. So what he is getting? It is paper. And he is very enthusiastic to give his labor. So production is more. And when you go to purchase the products, then you have to pay again. Whatever you have earned, you have to pay everything, pay to the bank or pay to the man. Simply cheating process is going on. There is no solution. People are cheaters. They have been taught how to cheat. Everyone has got a cheating propensity. That is conditioned life. Four defects: to commit mistake, to become illusioned, to cheat and imperfectness of the senses. So cheating propensity everyone has got. So that cheating propensity is being encouraged more and more. Instead of minimizing it or stop it, it is being encouraged.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guru dāsa: But in, in Makrana I got the rate seven-fifty, eight rupees. Seven, seven-fifty, eight for dangri(?), that kind. And about two-fifty to three extra for labor. So if they charge eight or seven, including labor and delivery and polishing, it is good rate, but if it is just delivery it is not a good rate.
Prabhupāda: So, Mr. (indistinct) said that he'll send the contract form. So we have to see.
Guru dāsa: If it does not include the delivery and the polishing...
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) include delivery, polishing, everything.
Guru dāsa: If it does, it's good rate. Also this black marble, I've gotten the price in Makrana four, four rupees and fifty paise.
Prabhupāda: That is excluding labor.
Guru dāsa: Yes. So if they can do it for five, it is good rate.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Simply trying to know, know, know.
Mr. Sar: Know.
Prabhupāda: You see? So, teṣāṁ kleśala eva śiṣyate: "Their gain is simply their trying for, that labor." Nānyad yathā sthūla-tuṣāvaghātinām: "It is exactly like one is beating the husk."
Mr. Sar: Yes, and not getting that thing.
Prabhupāda: There is no rice...
Mr. Sar: No rice even.
Prabhupāda: Simply "gad, gad, gad, gad, gad, gad."
Mr. Sar: "Gad, gad, gad, gad, gad, gad, gad."
Prabhupāda: That's all. Teṣāṁ kleśala eva śiṣyate nānyad yathā sthūla-tuṣāvaghātinām. So these impersonalists, they are trying to approach the Absolute Truth, but the method is not very good.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are not prepared.
Prabhupāda: Then? You have to engage laborer and spend two hundred rupees per head at least, including salary and food, and the production is nil. In this way, there must be ten thousand, twenty thousand expenditure. Am I right or not, that "You bring money some way from anywhere, and let us spend lavishly?" What kind of management this is? We should consider the money, after all, is earned with hard labor. So somebody will bring money with hard labor, and another body will spend like irresponsible prince; that should be stopped. That is management. (break) ...especially is that the religion means to make a class of men, simply idle... What is? Opiate...? What is called?
Devotees: Opiate of the people.
Prabhupāda: Ah. "And those who have no faith in bhakti-yoga, they do not get me. They simply labor." That's all. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). They are wasting time. That's all. As soon as we say, the time wasters, they become angry, "Oh, why you are saying? Don't criticize others." But if we say... (Hindi:) Satya bole ta mare latha (laughter) suta jagalda.(?) If you bluff, "Oh, you are doing very nice, you are doing very nice," oh, he will be very pleased. And if I say that "You rascal, you are doing all, simply wasting your time," he will not be... Mūrkhāyopadeṣo hi prakopāya.
Prabhupāda: That means their... That is their disease. The same thing, that "Why you are sitting here? Come with me, work." "What shall I do by working?" "You get money." "Then you'll enjoy." "And I am already enjoying." That the... This is called māyā. Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). These rascals, simply for little temporary so-called benefit, they have created this working civilization, "Work very hard, very hard." That's all. Whole history... In this Rome city you can see. There are evidences. These buildings are constructed with hard labor. Now those rascals have gone, and they are maintaining, that "They worked so hard." Those who worked very hard they have gone away. Now nobody knows where they are and what they have become. But they are maintaining their bricks. That's all. Brick civilization. (break)
Prabhupāda: Ants also. Everyone knows. God has given that intelligence. Everyone knows how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex life, and how to defend. Everyone knows, according to their... But everyone except the human being does not know what is self-realization. That is only prerogative of the human being. So if they are not utilizing his intelligence for that purpose, he is simply wasting time, śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8), simply laboring for nothing.
C. Hennis: Thank you very much. I come from the International Labor Organization which is an organization in the United Nations family. It's the second organization after the United Nations itself, and it's interested in every form of labor, every form of activity connected with labor, and the protection of the worker, the welfare of the worker. And in many respects, of course, our preoccupations must overlap with yours in certain respects of the activities, of man in general and his protection and his well-being.
Prabhupāda: So according to our Vedic conception, the labor class man is supposed to be the fourth-class man. First-class man, intelligentsia, very intelligent, learned. Or intelligent—one who can understand up to God. To understand God requires great intelligence. So first intelligent class of men, up to, so they are called brāhmaṇa. The next intelligent class man, those who give protection to the society, kṣatriya. And the third class, those who produce food and distribute. They are third class. And other, all others, they are fourth class.
C. Hennis: My organization is in fact concerned with the well being of all four classes. It is not only with the laboring man. It's also primarily with the producers, but also with the managers, leaders, and to a certain extent also with the protective classes in that we are interested in the well-being of policemen, hospital personnel, doctors, nurses, that kind of social security workers, and that kind of person. We are interested in the intelligentsia in that they are professional workers, often independent, whose professional rights and obligations need to be safeguarded and codified. That's a standard laid down in the form of international labor standards. One of our activities, not perhaps now the most important, but one of the first.
Prabhupāda: No. My point was, point is that... Because one is fourth-class, therefore we are not interested in that—it is not my point. My point is that there are four classes of men: first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class. And our point of view, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is meant for taking care of all classes of men. Although by natural division there are four classes of men, first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class, but the example we generally give, just like in your body there are four divisions: the head division, the arm division, the belly division and the leg division, but all of them meant for keeping the body fit. And body is meant for giving supply to everyone of them.
Prabhupāda: At the present moment in the society, there is very, very little care for the first-class intellectual class of men.
C. Hennis: The International Labor Organization has as one of its major aims to promote social justice, and that means that every class of worker, if you like to accept the four categories that you mentioned—the intellectual, the productive, the protective, and the laboring classes-should each have their proper place in society, should each have a full measure of human dignity, and should each have a proper share in the rewards for labor, both clearly material rewards and honors and dignity and leisure and time for, free time for meditation and so on. In the International Labor Organization, we are not like UNESCO devoted to the more philosophical and cultural and educational aspects for the intelligentsia, but I would draw your attention to the fact that the UNESCO is very much concerned with looking after the head part of society.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is my request to you.
C. Hennis: That's UNESCO. That I can't answer upon very fully. But I would suggest that they are, in that way UNESCO, United Nations through UNESCO, is very active in promoting culture and in stimulating philosophical thought. We are, on our side are more concerned with the place of the worker in society, and our organization is conceived along a peculiar model which we call the tripartite system. The members of our organization are states, not governments, but states, and each state is represented in our conference by two government delegates, one delegate of the employers and one delegate of the workers. And so the decisions that are reached, the same pattern goes down through the other organs of the organization. But the decisions that are reached in the International Labor Organization are thus not decisions which are only those of the government or the governing classes. They are decisions which represent a very broad consensus of opinions between both the employers and the workers as well as governments. And to that extent we do hope to find resolutions that have a very wide basis of ratification. After they are agreed upon by these three different elements of society represented in our International Labor Conference and in the other organs of the International Labor Organization, we endeavor to get the decisions ratified by national governments. Nevertheless the people who are here go back to their countries and try and get the decisions ratified so that a measure of uniformity in social justice and in the treatment of labor and protection of labor and in social security and in occupational safety and health and of all these things which are bound up with work and also payments to professional workers such as architects, nurses, doctors, people who work on a quite independent basis without being employed. It's not necessarily employees. Veterinarians and so on. The conditions of employment...
Prabhupāda: According to Vedic conception, the higher class of men, first-class, second class, third class, they are never to be employed. They remain free. Only the fourth class men, they are employed.
C. Hennis: Well, I think that the International Labor Organization is devoted to the reduction of inequalities between the different classes of men with a view to getting them all a better share of the good things of life, and by that, they may begin to reach a greater degree of human happiness, as they understand it, as the people themselves understand it. It may be that they don't understand it well.
Prabhupāda: No. Nature's way is not better share, but equal share. Just like when you take foodstuff, put it in the stomach, and when it is easily digested and transformed into different secretion and comes to the heart and becomes blood, there is equal distribution. Not that because brain is first-class, therefore the blood transformation to the brain should go more. No. Then it will be blood pressure, high blood pressure. This is nature's way, that... But when the energy goes to the brain, it acts differently. When the energy goes to the hands, it acts differently. The electricity energy is the same, but sometimes by working on the dictaphone, sometimes on the microphone, sometimes in electric heater, sometimes in refrigerator... The different apparatuses are there, but the energy is the same, equal. In that sense, the communistic idea that whatever energy is there, whatever resources are there, they should be equally distributed, that is nature's way. From the body we can understand that when the foodstuff turns into secretion, it goes to the heart and becomes blood. The blood is transfused through different veins to different parts of the body, and you will find everybody is satisfied.
Prabhupāda: That was my point, that you are taking of the laborer class. That is just like the legs.
C. Hennis: Well "labor," in fact means any kind of work, any kind of activity, any kind of occupational activity.
Prabhupāda: But you cannot say the... Any kind of activities, but everyone has got particular type of activity.
C. Hennis: Quite so.
Prabhupāda: You cannot say, "I can do any kind of work." I can give you advice about spiritual life, but if you require medical advice, then you have to go to somebody else. You cannot expect medical advice from me. So this is not a fact, that everyone can do everything. No.
C. Hennis: No, no, I agree. I agree.
Prabhupāda: There must be division. There must be division, and each division must be maintained very nicely. Then the whole society is all right.
Prabhupāda: I may say in this connection, in America, the laborer class is very highly paid. Anyone, any labor class man can earn $25, $50, daily, very easily. But because there is no direction of the brain, these labor class of men—I have seen—they—especially these Negroes—51%, they are drunkards. They spend their money in drinking. They do not know how to utilize the money. Because the brain is not giving direction. Or they have no brain. "I have got so money. How I shall utilize it?" As soon as he gets money, he use it, he uses it for drinking. You may think that you are sufficiently paying to the labor class, worker class, but because he is not guided by brain, he is misspending the money.
C. Hennis: I think that your effort of philosophy and teaching must really be directed, in the present state of affairs where countries are organized in the form of national states, must really be directed to the national leaders of government, the people who exercise temporal and spiritual power in the various sovereign states. And the United Nations is a forum for these sovereign states. The International Labor Organization is a forum for the sovereign states on certain subjects related to labor...
Prabhupāda: No, whatever subject may be, our point is the same. You just try to understand. If... You can organize so many, but if there is lack of brain, the brain is not in order, then any amount of suborganization, organization, will never be successful. That is my point.
Nitāi: Fourteen. Yeah, let me see it to read it. So it says here, "The best process of understanding You is to submissively give up the speculative process and try to hear about You either from Yourself, as You have given statements in the Bhagavad-gītā and many other similar Vedic literatures, or from a realized devotee, who has taken shelter at Your lotus feet. One has to hear from a devotee without speculation. One does not even need to change his worldly position. Simply he has to hear Your message. Although You are not understandable by the material senses, simply by hearing about You one can gradually conquer the nescience of misunderstanding. By Your grace only, You become revealed to the devotee. You are unconquerable by any other means. Speculative knowledge without any trace of devotional service is simply useless waste of time in search for You. Devotional service is so important that even a little attempt can raise one to the highest perfectional platform. One should not therefore neglect this auspicious process of devotional service and take to the speculative method. By the speculative method, one may gain partial knowledge of Your cosmic manifestation, but it is not possible to understand You, the origin of everything. The attempt of persons who are interested only in speculative knowledge is simply wasted labor, like the labor of a person who attempts to gain something by beating the empty husk of rice paddy. A little quantity of paddy can be husked by the grinding wheel, and one can gain some grains of rice, but if the skin, the paddy, is already beaten by the grinding wheel, there is no further gain in beating the husk. It is simply useless labor."
Prabhupāda: So bhakti school does not very much appreciate the speculative method. They surrender and they try to get knowledge directly from the Supreme Lord, as Bhagavad-gītā is being spoken by the Supreme Lord, or statements of the pure highly elevated devotees, just like Brahmā is speaking. This way. Hearing. The main purpose is hearing, hearing from the right source. That is... Especially in the western world, instead of hearing from the right source, they want to speculate about the Absolute. We have got about twenty books like this, but they are not speculation. They are simply by hearing. I am writing what I have heard, not that I am speculating. Mostly, the philosophers, they write as they speculate. They write their own opinion.
Prabhupāda: For money. So rascal civilization is going on. Therefore I challenged that man, "Where is your brain?" There is no brain. You remember that?
Yogeśvara: From the International Labor Organization.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no brain.
Karandhara: Prabhupāda, in a recent study by U.S. Agricultural officials, they found that it is really uneconomical to eat meat. It takes so much energy and man hours to raise and transport and slaughter the cows that it makes it very wasteful.
Prabhupāda: Wasteful, yes. Therefore I say they have no brain. All, they are rascals. Rascal leaders. A little labor in agriculture will be sufficient to produce the family's food stock for the whole year. You can stock. You work only three months, and you get sufficient food for your whole family. And less nine months, you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. But these rascals will not do that. They will work hard like ass simply for eating. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti (SB 5.5.4). They will not accept easy life.
Prabhupāda: Immediately I said, "Yes, you have labored eighteen years. Still, there are so many mistakes."
Nitāi: Anyone else would have said, "Oh! Very nice."
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Eh? I did not say.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: He said that morning "What can we do, Prabhupāda?" He said, "What can we do? If we do not compromise, we will make enemies."
Prabhupāda: No, you'll not compromise; at the same time, you'll not make enemies. That is tactics. If you make enemies, then what is your tactics? You must speak the truth; at the same time he'll not be displeased. That is tactics. If you can defeat him by your argument, then he'll not be displeased. After all, everyone is human being. If you can find out his defect, why he shall be enemy? Therefore, it is said, "You better make a reasonable man an enemy, but don't make a friend fool." You don't make friendship with a fool, but if a man is intelligent, better make him an enemy.
Prabhupāda: Next class, the vaiśyas. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44).
Nitāi:
- kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ
- vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam
- paricaryātmakaṁ karma
- śūdrasyāpi svabhāva-jam
- (BG 18.44)
"Farming, cattle-raising and business are the qualities of the work for the vaiśyas, and for the śūdras, there is labor and service to others."
Prabhupāda: At the present moment, the people in general, they are engaged in service, in factories, in big, big office, big, big establishment. So they're all śūdras, fourth-class men. And the fourth-class men select their representative. So they must be also fourth-class. Democracy means selected, I mean to..., voted, elected. So because they are being elected by the fourth-class men, the leaders are also fourth-class men. The fourth-class men cannot appreciate the first-class men. And there is lacking of second-class men. So the result is that at the present moment, the whole world is being managed by the fourth-class men. Therefore, there are so many anomalies.
Professor Durckheim: All the night or do you at the day sometimes?
Prabhupāda: No. At night I get up at one, at half past one, sometimes half past twelve. But I take a little rest, one or two hour in the daytime. So two hours at night, two hours at day, or three hours at night, two hours in day. In this way, altogether five hours, not more than that. Our predecessor gurus, Gosvāmīs, they were taking rest not more than two hours or 2-1/2 hours. So we should come to that standard, yes. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **. About them this description is: they reduced their sleeping, nidra. Nidra means sleeping. And āhāra. Āhāra means eating and collection. Collection is also āhāra. Yes. So they were mendicant. They had no collection. And they had no preaching mission. They were simply writing books. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau, very expert to study different scriptures just to get the essence of scripture and give to the people. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau. So their life was engaged for the benefit of the whole human society. What these people are talking philanthropy and humanitarian? They dedicated their life for... Just like we are doing. It is not for any sect or any person. For the whole human society. So that should be the mission. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau tri-bhuvane mānyau. Therefore their literature is honored all over the world, all over the universe. Just like our books. We are selling all over the world, all universities, all school, all colleges, all gentlemen. It is not sectarian. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau tri-bhuvane mānyau śaraṇyākarau. This was their hard labor, and rādhā-kṛṣṇa-bhajanānandena mattālikau, and they were very much pleased in worshiping Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Deity. All the Gosvāmīs established a Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa temple. In Vṛndāvana each and every Gosvāmī established one temple in the beginning. Then others followed. Rūpa Gosvāmī established Govindajī's temple. And Jīva Gosvāmī established Rādhā-Dāmodara temple.
Dr. Harrap: But we've had very close connections with India in the dairy research laboratory in that Dr. Chulak... Yes, you know him? One of our staff members some years ago spent several months in India developing methods of making cheese from buffaloes' milk.
Prabhupāda: No, India's position is different now. India has practically no milk, and no food. Due to our leaders' mismanagement, there is no milk. India is depending on your milk powder sent by Australia or by Europe. There is no milk. But milk is very important because Kṛṣṇa said that kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Find out that verse. You do not have that Kṛṣṇa Book?
Cāru:
- kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ
- vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam
- paricaryātmakaṁ karma
- śūdrasyāpi svabhāva-jam
- (BG 18.44)
"Translation: Farming, cattle-raising and business are the qualities of work for the vaiśyas, and for the śūdras there is labor and service to others..."
Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa... We are following the leadership of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa was so fond of cows, cows' milk, cows' butter, that He was stealing cows' butter. Yes. Find out that picture.
Prabhupāda: And the bulls are being killed. Why they should be killed? Engage them in tilling the field. They will have occupation. And the man also will have occupation. There is immense land. So there will be no question of unemployment. And the machine, it works hundreds of men's labor and hundreds of men become unemployed. So unemployed means devil's workshop.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Ah, jagad āhur anīśvaram (BG 16.8). There is no God, it has come automatically by interaction. But even it is so, how the interaction is taking place? That is intelligence. Interaction, just like acid and alkali. Just like oil and caustic soda. These are two chemicals and mixing them, interaction, the result is soap. Accepting this principle, but there must be a mixer, a person who is mixing. Otherwise, how the soap and oil is being mixed? The soap is there and the oil is there and the caustic soda is also there, that is material ingredient. But they are not coming together automatically. That is not possible. Where is the evidence? There are so many soap factories, and let them keep oil and caustic soda and there is no question of labor, let them become soap. Where is that evidence? But these rascals say like that. Aparaspara sambhūtam. Interaction of the two things. But where is the interaction of two things unless it is arranged by some third element? Where is the evidence? So these are foolish theories, that there is no God, things are taking place automatically and things are coming out, these are all foolish theories. There is no evidence.
Prabhupāda: Our first problem is, because we have got this material body, eating. Everyone must eat. So Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, annād bhavanti bhūtāni: (BG 3.14) "If there is sufficient food grains, then both man and animal, they become happy." Therefore our first religion is to produce food grain sufficiently to feed everyone. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva (BG 18.44). This matter has been entrusted to the vaiśyas. They should produce sufficient food and give protection to the cows for sufficient milk. Then the whole human society, animal society, will be happy. But we are disobeying the orders or the rules given by God. Instead of producing food, we are producing motorcars. And motor tires, motor parts. And so many other things. And therefore people are starving. The manual labor is being misused. We are disobeying the orders of God. Therefore we are unhappy. I have seen all over the world.
Prabhupāda: You are already self-realized. Otherwise how you can push on the books? You love Kṛṣṇa. Therefore you are taking so much labor for pushing on. And that is self-realization. If anyone tries to establish that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord, that is self-realization.
Tripurāri: Sometimes the devotees ask if they can take birth again distributing books for you.
Prabhupāda: Very good. That is real devotion. A devotee does not want to go to Vaikuṇṭha or any liberation. They are satisfied with the service. That is pure devotion. And distributing books for the benefit of going to Kṛṣṇa, that is selfishness. But "I want to simply distribute the books without any remuneration, without any my personal..." that is pure devotee. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja says that "I do not wish to go to Vaikuṇṭha unless I take all of these rascals with me." That is pure devotee. Pure devotion does not mean to... He is always under the protection of Kṛṣṇa. What is the use of going Vaikuṇṭha or...? Wherever he stays, that is Vaikuṇṭha. That is pure devotional service. Mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī: (Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4) "Life after life I may go on with this business. I don't want anything." That is pure devotion. (About cake:) So distribute.
Everyone knows that "I will not be able to stay here," and they are making skyscraper building. How foolish they are. He knows that "I will not be allowed to stay here," and he is busy whole life how to make fogscraper, skyscraper. The same example. If I say, "You cannot sit here more than few minutes," then will you be engaged how to decorate this room? You'll know naturally that "I am here for two minutes. Why shall I take, waste my time to decorate?" They are doing that actually. So are they not foolish? (Bengali)
anitya soṁsāre, moha janamiyā,
- jībake karaye gāḍhā
Unnecessary attachment. Next life he may be not even a human being. The skyscraper building he is doing now with so great labor and enthusiasm, and next life he may be a cat or rat in that building. How can you stop it? The nature's law will act. If you have behaved like cats and dogs and you have attachment for the building, then nature will, "All right, you become a cat and dog according to karma and you remain in this building." (end)
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But money, what is the standard of money? First of all, just discuss this. What is the standard of money throughout the whole world?
Devotee (1): Work, labor, labor.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Devotee (1): Labor.
Pañcadraviḍa: Purchases...
Prabhupāda: Gold. So have you created gold? How is your money? The gold is already there. You have stolen. You are thief. You are not laborer, but you are rascal, thief. You'll be punished for this policy. Is gold your property?
Prabhupāda: And what you'll do with the buildings? You'll be kicked out. Your building will remain there. Your spoiling labor will remain there, but you will be kicked out. You cannot live there. Who is managing these affairs? "So you have constructed a building? All right, I kick you out. Get out!" Then what is the purpose of building? If you know that "I am constructing this high building, and tomorrow somebody will kick me out," then what is the use? Have you made it insured that you'll not be kicked out?
Viṣṇujana: No.
Nalinī-kānta: But it is all managed nicely.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...mediately manage. "Stop all these worker illicit sex, intoxication, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." The whole atmosphere will change. The production will be increased. There will be no dissatisfaction among the worker and the capitalists. Immediately everything will be solved. Now the competition is going on that the capitalist is exacting as much money from their labor, and he is spending it for wine and women, and the worker is seeing that "Our money, he's spending. Why not ourself? So let us form a communist party. Let us fight." This is going on. But they do not know how to spend money, śūdras. When a śūdra gets money, he'll spend for wine and women. That's all. He does not know that it should be spent for Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Nalinī-kānta: So intoxication, illicit sex, we will make that illegal.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is illegal, but because they are rogues and rascals, they are doing all these illegal things. And because it is democracy, when the majority are acting illegally, it becomes legal. This is democracy. They cannot avoid it. They want to do the same thing by voting "There is no God." So there is no God. Bas. Finish. (end)
Prabhupāda: ...seeking the necessities of the body, but kāṣṭān, with great labor. This is civilization. Kāṣṭān karma. The ultimate end is sense gratification, which the dogs and hogs also enjoy without any hard labor, and they think that after working very, very hard, twenty-four hours, and driving the motorcars in three hundred miles speed, this is civilization. The end is the same—sex, that's all, which the cats and dogs enjoy in the street. And they have made this civilization, you see. Working very hard, and enjoy the sex. Is it not?
Satsvarūpa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: What else they are getting?
Satsvarūpa: Well, they say that civilization is more than that. It's...
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Satsvarūpa: Well, culture...
Prabhupāda: What is that culture? Your culture is the same—sex. As soon as there was no light, immediately there was pregnancy. That is the statistic record.
Prabhupāda: Did it...? (break) ...special. There is a proverb, kalo brāhmaṇa kota śūdra bete mussulman kalki chele busi... (?) A brāhmaṇa, black... Brāhmaṇa's another name is śukla, white. So as soon as a brāhmaṇa is black then he's (indistinct) kalo brāhmaṇa. Kota śūdra, and śūdra, just like African, if they become white there is something mystery. Kalo brāhmaṇa kota śūdra bete mussulman, Mohammedan, because Mohammedan means the Afghans, they are very tall, so a Mussulman is dwarf, a brāhmaṇa is black, the śūdra is white, kalo brāhmaṇa kota śūdra bete mussulman and kalki chelo, that means the bastard and (indistinct) ...these are all of the same class. Adopted son, he gets money, without any labor, he spends like anything. In your country there is adopted son?
Devotee: Yeah, yeah.
Prabhupāda: They are trying. That is admitted. But, they are concluding that there is no operator. That is their foolishness, because they have failed to find out. They have to go further, further, and see, "Yes, there is operator." That is the final part of the... That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān mām (BG 7.19). So after many, many births of sincere inquiry, when he is actually intelligent, he will see, "Oh, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). Here is Vasudeva. He is everything." That is stated. He'll enquire. Go on enquiring, life after life. And then he'll come to understand vāsudevaḥ-sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ. You did not read this verse? They will come, after much trouble, much enquiry, they will come to the same conclusion, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). But they'll waste time. That's all. When we say, "Here is operator," they will not take. But they'll waste time, and life after life laboring, one day they will come.
Prabhupāda: They would get everything, and without any labor. Just see our example.
Amogha: But they say that the only reason you are... Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is existing is because we are working and giving you the money.
Prabhupāda: You must work. Because we are superior, you must work under us. (laughter) That will give you actually happiness. (indistinct) That is your duty. You are not carrying out your duty, then you will suffer. You work under our direction, you'll be happy.
Amogha: Then they say that every religion says the same thing, that if you follow them, then you will be happy. But they are all teaching differently. So...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Now try this. This is the latest. (laughter) You are after latest. This is the latest.
Paramahaṁsa: Actually in the West, more or less, that system, the division system, is accepted because we have businessmen, we have labor men, we have politicians, we have teachers and professors.
Prabhupāda: It is changed?
Śrutakīrti: Changed?
Prabhupāda: My wrapper?
Śrutakīrti: Yeah, this is the new wrapper.
Prabhupāda: New wrapper?
Śrutakīrti: I got for you in Vṛndāvana. I'd gotten it in Delhi.
Prabhupāda: With that border?
Śrutakīrti: No, no, that's this. See there are two wrappers.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Both of them are new.
Devotee (1): The temple is manufactured in the sand?
Prabhupāda: No, as usual. Just like they dig well. They dig well. They begin immediately, and then you dig the earth, and the structure goes down. Then again, then again, like that. They were experts, they were experts, to construct... Labor is cheap. That time, practically there was no labor cost. At the present moment, on account of factories, the labor cost has increased. Otherwise the laborers, they were, they have no sufficient employment. So two annas, four annas. I was paying labor, four annas, say, in 1930s. Four annas. In Allahabad I was paying four annas. He would work whole day. In Bombay eight annas.
Devotee (1): They also have the big structures in Egypt, the pyramids.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Amogha: Perhaps they used sand also.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: It seems to be very difficult if they are not very serious about anything...
Prabhupāda: No, that is missionary activities, that they do not understand, but you have to make them understand. They are not calling you, "I am suffering. Please come," but it is your business to go and let them know that "You are suffering. You take this method." That is the way of becoming very quickly recognized by Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, if you think, "They are not understanding, what is the use of going there? Let me sleep," that is not good. They are not understanding; still, you have to go. Then Kṛṣṇa will take that "He is laboring so hard for My sake." Never mind he is successful. It doesn't matter. But you are working hard for Kṛṣṇa. That is noted down. So our business is to be recognized by Kṛṣṇa. Whether one man is converted or not converted, that is not our business. We shall try our best. But Kṛṣṇa must see that I am giving service to Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That is wanted. Not that you have to judge that you have approached so many men; nobody became Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Prabhupāda: Indian society, the did not know how to drink tea even. In our childhood we have seen that Britishers started tea garden. There was no tea plants before Britishers. The Britishers saw the labor is very cheap, and they want to do business, they started. Just like they are doing in Africa. So many gardens, coffee and tea. So they started, and the tea was transferred to be sold in America. They were after business. So the... Now, so much tea, who will consume? The government started a tea sets committee. All the tea garden holders they would pay government. And road to road, street to street, their business was canvassing, preparing tea, very nice, palatable tea, and they advertising if you drink tea, then you will not feel very much hungry, and your malaria will go away and so on, so on. And people began to drink tea. Nice cup. I have seen it. Now they have got a taste. Now gradually now a sweeper also, early in the morning, is waiting in the tea shop to get a cup of tea.
Prabhupāda: ...plans. They had to work very hard to find out, "What is this? What is this?" So that is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Kliśyanti kevala-bodha-labdhaye. "Working hard simply to know." Kliśyanti. Kliśyanti means working very hard, labor. Kevala-bodha-labdhaye. Simply to understand. But they are not kliśyanti to understand God. Kliśyanti kevala-bodha-labdhaye. This kind of knowledge is compared with beating the bush. That's all. After taking away the paddy grains, only the skin remains. And if you again beat the skin to get grains, that is not possible.
Sabhāpati: So who is the greater rascal, the material scientist or the...
Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone. Everyone who... That is the statement. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). This class of men, they do not recognize God. Who? Those who are sinful, rascals, lowest of the mankind. Such people do not recognize God. Mūḍhas. (indistinct) educated. No, that education means false education. Real education is taken away by māyā. Real education means to understand God. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). If one does not understand what is God, his education is useless. It has no meaning. What is that education? Will that education save him from death? Then what is the value of his education? Your real problem is birth, death, old age, and disease. Can this material education stop it? Is the scientist able to stop one's old age? And does anyone, man, any man, wants to become old? No, nobody wants. Everyone wants to keep himself youthful. But can the science stop this, that he will not become old? He must become old.
Then where is the education value? You cannot solve your problem, so what is the meaning of education? Education, knowledge, means you have solved your problems. They are trying to do that, temporary problem. But ultimate problem they cannot solve. Therefore the value of this education is useless. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). It is simply laboring after something, that's all.
Prabhupāda: If you advance in civilization or do not advance in civilization, you will die. That is sure. Then why do you labor so much? Huh? The animals, they do not labor so much. They live peacefully on the condition of the nature. Why do you labor so much? If the result is the same—the animal will die and you will die—then why you are laboring so much for nothing? That means they have no common sense even. Therefore they are rascals. That is discussed in Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa said to Arjuna, "If you think there was no life before this body and if you think that there will be no life after this body, then why you are anxious for the body of your brothers and sisters?" So all these philosophies have been discussed in Bhagavad-gītā. After all, the conclusion is that they are all rascals. That's all. We have to take them as such rascals. After death everything is finished—that a child knows—but why you are making so permanent building? Piling, (imitates pile driver sound) "Donkhs!
Donkhs!" very strong building. You are not strong enough to live there, so why you are making strong building? The building will stay, and you will die. So what is the use of making a strong building? Let the building also go with you. Why do you labor so much? Is it not? You are making strong building but you are not strong enough to live there. And why you are laboring so much? What is the answer?
Hari-śauri: Their excuse is that they are leaving something for the next generation, for their children.
Prabhupāda: But there is austerities.
Paramahaṁsa: Yeah, actually they end up performing greater austerity.
Prabhupāda: You have to earn money with so much labor and spend it for nothing.
Paramahaṁsa: Billions of dollars. Some of them are working like madmen.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Paramahaṁsa: They work all day and most of the night. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...expedition is exposition of the scientists: useless. But these materialistic persons will be cheated again and again. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). The scientists will propose something else and they will accept. They will never say that "You are failure in your moon expedition. Why you are proposing again something nonsense?" They will never ask. They will pay me, "Yes."
Prabhupāda: But that requires faith. One who does not know what is God and what is protection, how he can take to it? He depends on his own energy. That is karmīs. He wants to happy by his own energy not only in this life but also next life, by acting very piously, wants to be promoted in the heavenly planets. That is fact. One can go. But that is on account of his own labor. But here the bhaktas, they are taken care of, the Supreme Lord. So just like child. He doesn't care how he will live comfortably. But the father takes care. That is the position of bhakta. The karmīs, they are taking care of themselves. But the devotees, they are taken care of by the Supreme. That is difference. What is that?
Jayatīrtha: This is the preliminary outline for the college course that Dr. Judah is going to be helping us with in Berkeley. This describes the basic purposes of the college and describes some of the courses that we'll be offering.
Prabhupāda: Our books?
Jayatīrtha: Yes, there's a course in each book.
Prabhupāda: Our science is stated in the Vedas, yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti. Just try to understand Kṛṣṇa, and everything will be understood. So try to understand one, Kṛṣṇa, and then you understand everything. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti. (break) ...philosophy is, it is said, that bhaktim... śreya-sṛtiṁ bhaktim... śreya-sṛtiṁ bhaktim upasya, ye kliśyanti kevala-bodha-labdhaye. Kevala-bodha means just trying to understand this, that, this, that, this, that, this, that. In this way they are wasting time and giving up devotional service to the Lord. So what is the result? Bhaktim udapasya te vibho kliśyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye. Kevala-bodha. The duration of life is very short, and he is gathering knowledge by going to the moon. In this way he is wasting his time. So the result is that waste of time. That is their gain and nothing more. Just see that these people instead of teaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they wanted to study, go to the moon planet to understand. The result is, their only result is, that they have labored so much, and that is their gain, nothing else. What other thing they have made. Teṣāṁ kleśala evāvaśiṣyate nānyad yathā sthula-tuṣāvaghāṭīnām. Just like you beat the skin of rice paddy. You will not get rice. Simply your labor, "Gad, gad, gad, gad," that will be your gain. So their only gain is that they have learned that in the moon there is dust like here, that's all. This is their... (laughs) As if we are very much eager to know that there is also dust in the moon. (laughs) And they bluff people selling ticket for going to moon planet. Pan American?
Prabhupāda: Everything has got proper use. In the material condition we do not know that. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has made a list, how to use your, this anger, greediness, like that. He says, kamaḥ kṛṣṇa-karmārpaṇe. We are lusty for doing something for our sense gratification. The same desire, same propensity, can be utilized for serving Kṛṣṇa. Just like we are writing books, keeping night, whole night. So for an old man like me, it is tedious. But we are doing for Kṛṣṇa. So similarly, another author may be writing whole night for some sex literature. So the labor for producing a sex literature and the labor for producing a Bhāgavata is the same. It may be same ambition that "Let me become a big author. My name will be very popular." But one thing is being done for Kṛṣṇa; one thing is being done for sense gratification. So that propensity of becoming a reputed author or the labor, this, same, but it is being utilized for different purposes. Similarly, you take anything, if you use it for... Just like Hanumān. He became angry upon Rāvaṇa. He set fire in his city, destroyed the whole city. He showed his anger, but not for his personal sense gratification. He wanted to serve Lord Rāma. Sītā was stolen by him, so there was arrangement for fighting, and he did the same thing, set fire. To set fire in your home or your country, it is not good, but he did it for satisfaction of Lord Rāmacandra. So everything has its proper use when it is utilized for serving Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are living beings. We are conscious. We cannot give up anything, but we are being trained up how to utilize everything for Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So give him some prasāda.
Prabhupāda: Mathurā, yes. His father, mother... That Sally used to say, "My husband is a lost child of their parents." He is not doing very well. He is getting $800. At that time, maybe $1,000. What is here, eight hundred, thousand dollars? He could have lived very comfortably at his father's care. He is very rich man. (break) (walking:) Thing is that people are working so hard day and night for these temporary years, and less than that laboring they can go to back to home, back to Godhead. Little labor. But they do not know. Kṛṣṇa says, yānti deva-vratā devān pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ (BG 9.25), bhūtejyā yānti bhū..., mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām. Just to get a nice car, a nice wife, and a few children by working so hard, bhūtejya, and the same labor, mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām, if he devotes for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he goes back to home, back to Godhead. And what is wrong there? We have got so many Kṛṣṇa conscious devotees. What is wrong there than these ordinary karmīs? Hmm? Are we unhappy? What do you think?
Brahmatīrtha: No, nice.
Prabhupāda: He will go to the brothel. That he has got time. To the liquor house to forget his labor. This is civilization. Mūḍha, mūḍha civilization. Why the Communist are coming? Why Communist party is there? What is the philosophy, Communist?
Satsvarūpa: That wealth should be shared by everyone.
Prabhupāda: That means they also do not wish to work so hard. They are seeing that "Capitalists are sitting very comfortably and (we) working." They are also thinking, "Escaping." Is it not? So the natural tendency is that "I will not work, and still, I will get my necessities." That is natural tendency. The material world means avidyā-karma-samjñānya tṛtīyā śaktir iśyate. This is out of ignorance they are working so hard. In the spiritual world there is no question of working. You get everything. Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu. Everything, whatever you want. So why not endeavor to go there? Why should you work like hogs and dogs?
Viśakha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, they will accuse us of being parasites.
Prabhupāda: Just like this table belongs to somebody else. How can I possess it? And if the table belongs to somebody else, how can I renounce it? Renouncing means if I possess something. But if you have nothing to possess, where is the question of renouncing? And if the things belongs to somebody else, how can I possess it? This is my proposal. You cannot possess other things. And then you will be thief. If I possess other's possession, then I am thief. And if I renounce, then I am false renouncer, but I did not possess anything. So where is the question of possession and renouncing come? But the whole world is struggling. Some group is struggling for possessing, which is called economic development, and some group is trying to renounce it. Just like a rich man's son. Without any, his labor, he possesses the father's immense property. He wants to renounce it. And the poor man is trying to possess it. These two classes of men are working. One is trying to possess, and the other is trying to renounce. There is no other third group.
Ṛṣabhadeva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, earlier you had said that nature provides each species its foodstuff. But in other species other than man we see that it's immediately obtainable. But man has to work for it, and he has to wait for the fruits of his labor. Why is that nature's arrangement?
Prabhupāda: Nature's arrangement... In this material world you cannot eat without working. Even if you are lion-lion is considered to be the most powerful animal—he has to capture one animal. He cannot think that "Let me sleep, and the animal will come automatically in my mouth." It is not possible. You have to work; this is the material world. So that work is simple work. If you have got land... Everyone has got land. You just work little, and it will produce your food grains. And the food grains will give food to the animal and man. The animal, cow, he will eat the grass, and you will take the grains. Why should you kill the animal? You haven't got to arrange for his food. You produce paddy. The plant, when it is dried, it is good for animals, and you take the grains. Why should you kill him? And he will deliver you. If you protect his life, he will give you nice milk. So you keep animal, cows, and grow food grain; then your food problem is solved. So if your food problem is solved and your cloth problems is solved, then where is your economic necessity? Then you save time and cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So real business will be how to cultivate, how to become advanced in God consciousness. That the animal cannot do. You are claiming more intelligence than the animals, so use your intelligence in this way. Don't spoil day and night for your economic development. So-called economic development means as soon as you become stout and strong, then sense gratification. Then you cultivate the culture of nudism. That Los Angeles beach, "Beach for nudies."
Prabhupāda: Cobbler is less than śūdra. Yes. Cobbler means when the cows die, the cobbler may take it. If he wants, he can eat the flesh, and he can utilize the bone, hoofs. He can prepare... He gets the skin without any price. So he can make shoes and he'll make some profit. And because he is cobbler, he can be allowed to eat meat, fifth-class... Not that "Professor such-and-such," and eating meat. This is the degradation of society. He is doing the work of a brāhmaṇa—teacher means brāhmaṇa—and eating meat-Oh, horrible! Śyāmasundara? So make, organize. I can give you the idea, but I'll not live very long. If you can carry out, you can change the whole... Especially if you can change America, then whole world will change. Then the whole world... And it is the duty because they are kept in darkness and ignorance, then the human life is being spoiled. These rascals, because they do not know how to live... Andhā yathāndhair... They are blind, and they are leading... Others are blind, and they are leading and they, all of them, going to ditch. So it is the duty. There is... Caitanya has explained, para-upakāra. Save them. If it is not possible to save everyone, as many as possible... This is human life. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to save others who are in the darkness. It is not a profession: "Now, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is my profession. I'm getting very easily food and shelter." Just like the Indians, they are doing, a profession, say another means of livelihood. Not like that. It is for para-upakāra, actually benefiting the others. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then Kṛṣṇa will be very much pleased: "Oh, he is trying." 'Cause Kṛṣṇa personally comes for doing this benefit to the people, and if you do, then how much Kṛṣṇa will be pleased. Then? Just like I am traveling in my centers, and if I see that my students, my men are doing very nice, everything is going nice, how much pleased I will be, that I'll save my labors and now write books for the rest of my time.
Prabhupāda: But you are doctor already. Why shall I become doctor? You serve me. We serve you by giving you Kṛṣṇa consciousness; you serve me as a doctor. What is the wrong there? Parasparārtham. I am for you; you are for me. Division of labor, that is accepted universally. So ask them, "Do you think that everyone should become doctor? Then where is the patient?" Eh? Everything is required. Similarly, you require our help also. It is cooperation. You know medical science; we know spiritual science. So let us exchange and be happy. Why you are envious of us? Why there is division in the body—head, arms, legs, belly? Why not everything head or everything leg? Why there is divided? That is nature. It is required. Why this road is neglected?
Mādhavānanda: It's mismanagement.
Prabhupāda: What you are doing there?
Member: I am retired labor officer in the state government.
Prabhupāda: Oh. So you can live here, retired life? Yes. You are welcome.
Member: I'll be staying here for ten days.
Prabhupāda: Why ten days? Live here for ten years. (laughter)
Member: If you please, I have no objections.
Prabhupāda: No. We want many educated men to understand this philosophy and preach. People are... Whole world, they are in ignorance—the value of life. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). They are accepting this body as self. The whole trouble is there. So-called scientist, philosopher—everyone is thinking, "I am this body," and therefore there is so much trouble. They do not know what he is and what is his goal of life, how life should be molded. No knowledge. Therefore vigorous preaching is required. Our Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is that, that all people are suffering. There is little knowledge in India. So anyone who has taken his birth in India, he should make his life perfect by studying this Vedic literature and then spread the knowledge all over the world because they are in ignorance. Here also now they are ignorant. They do not know what is the value of life, thinking like cats and dogs.
Prabhupāda: Just like later on, the Gandhi's disciples became more than Gandhi, more than Gandhi. That's all. Gandhi planned village organization, and Jawaharlal Nehru planned industrialization. And everything failed. There is no money, and he wanted to establish industry like America.
Dr. Patel: But he did not understand economics, sir. What is money after all? Money is nothing but the labor transformed into materials. We had the huge labor of sixty crores of people. He was capable of transforming that labor into material unfortunately and...
Prabhupāda: Anyway, they changed the Gandhi's program.
Dr. Patel: That is what Gandhi understood, but he did not.
Prabhupāda: How he can understand? He wanted to utilize to become prime minister.
Prabhupāda: Accha bole tomare lagdha, suta jagat murare.(?) You give me that chewra and milk and banana, nothing else. (break) ...and so much useless labor for growing tea, that will be stopped. You can grow food. (break) You drink tea, you'll require sugar. Then unnecessarily producing so much sugarcane. And the by-product of sugarcane, molasses, you'll have to utilize. Then produce wine, liquor. One after another.
Indian man (3): But our country depends upon sugar.
Prabhupāda: No, that is mistake. Your country, you can produce your own food. That's all. Why you should depend? You produce food grains. You produce milk. Then your all necessities is supplied. Why should you produce unnecessarily?
Brahmānanda: Here they use powdered milk because they have no cows.
Prabhupāda: Just see. And here even by this sugarcane, what is called? Upper part? This part?
Indian man (1): We call it ag.(?)
Prabhupāda: Ag, yes. You can maintain thousand of cows.
Prabhupāda: Formerly they were satisfied by tilling the ground, getting food grains. Now they have started factories. At the cost of thousands of men's labor, some director is getting money and enjoying life. That is progress. And these rascals, laborers, they are thinking that "These men are getting the profit, cream of this business. We are working. Why not take ourself?" That is Communism.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There is one small coal mining town we did saṅkīrtana at, an Indian community. And they were thinking that "The coal mine is doing everything for us. They're giving us schools, they're giving us medicine, they're giving us... Without the coal mine where would we be?"
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (3): Yes, but don't you think that it would be impossible for you to come mostly?
Prabhupāda: No, no. So long it is not available, we must take the best advantage. That is another thing. But gradually we shall develop a society that all these unnecessary rubbish things should be rejected. That is the idea. Or those who are interested, let them manufacture car; we take advantage. We don't bother ourself how to manufacture car. Ajāgara-vṛtti. Ajāgara-vṛtti, the idea is... Ajāgara means the snake. So a mouse makes a hole in the field to live very peacefully. So, and he enters the hole, and a snake gets the information and he comes, enters the hole. He eats the snake... The snake eats the mouse and lives peacefully. So let this rascal manufacture motorcar. When we require, we take from them and ride away. We are not going to manufacture. There will be some rascals. Let them do that, mouse. We enter as snake. (laughter) That's all. We are doing that. We are doing that. I did not manufacture this house, but somebody, some mouse, has done. (laughter) And we have entered it, that's all. That's all. This is going on all over the world. You know George Harrison? He has earned money with so great hard labor, and he has given us a house in London, fifty-five lakhs' worth. Another boy, Alfred Ford, he's the great grandson of Mr. Henry Ford. He has given.
Prabhupāda: ...are employed in the factory?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Very menial labor, driving trucks and delivery. Gokulendra, when he went to...
Prabhupāda: They are given equal facility for education?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No. When Gokulendra went to England he saw a European man with a pick in his hand, and he couldn't believe it, because in South Africa you never see a European person with a pick opening up the street. Only the Africans do things like that. And they'll have one European man standing there, directing. He'll make so much money. (break)
Prabhupāda: Indians are taken within the group of black? No.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, they have white and nonwhite. So technically speaking, they can classify all of the Indians as nonwhite. But at the same time, there is more division, and they have Indian community, and they have the colored community and the African community.
Prabhupāda: The government officer, responsible post, they are offered to the Indians? No.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So complex.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is going on. "These Britishers do not allow me to go there? All right, kill them." That was the Hitler policy and Kaiser's policy, to kill British empire. They did it. They were successful. But they were also killed. This is going on, unnecessary. Why you produce so much razor and scissor? And then find out market, and when there is competition, there is anger, there is enviousness, there is fight, one after another, one after another. Where is peace? Why do you produce so many unnecessarily? Why do you produce so many cars, when there is scarcity of power, and fight with Arabians? Anartha. Therefore it is called anartha, unnecessary. Anarthopasamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje (SB 1.7.6). As soon as people will be devotee, they will not require unnecessary things. They will be satisfied, simply bare necessities of life. That is peaceful condition. You create unnecessary needs of life, and then there is competition, there is hellish life, the factory, and then the factory man requires wine to forget his hard labor, so on, so on. Then he become thieves. He become rogues. This is your society. How you can expect peace?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The only solution is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: That's it, only solution.
Harikeśa: That seems to be the root cause of...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Government is taking labor from you. You ask, "If you pay me three hundred dollars, then I shall work." "All right, I shall give you. Work." Then what is that three hundred? I print and pay you, and you rascal, you accept it, three hundred dollars. What is that three hundred dollars for government? Printing press. And you are so rascal, "Yes, I have got now three hundred dollars." This is going on. This is artificial inflation. Why there is inflation? Now you have got three hundred dollars without any hard labor. And when you go to purchase—I haven't got three hundred dollars; you have got—"All right, I shall pay this price." So price is increased because the seller will see: "Who pays me large price?" So you have got unnecessary money. You offer him large price. So I am poor man; I could not purchase. This is going on.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But I think people would... Most people would go crazy if they didn't have any work.
Prabhupāda: No, that means their life is not properly conducted. And therefore the word laziness has come. Laziness is not actually the word. Laziness means minimizing the bodily labor and engaged in spiritual work. If you ask people, "Please come to our temple," who is coming? Because he says, "I have no time." But we are not working hard. So real aim of life is to... In German, I think, or somewhere there is classification: "Lazy intelligent, busy intelligent, lazy fool, and busy fool." So at the present moment (laughs) the whole world is full of busy fools. But the first-class man, he is lazy intelligent. Lazy and intelligent, that is first-class man. And second-class man, busy intelligent. And third class means lazy fool and fourth class means busy fool. When the fools are busy... Just like nowadays they are busy but they are fools. Like monkey, he is very busy. You see? And they prefer to be generation of monkey, busy fool. That's all. Fools, when he is busy, he is simply creating havoc. That's all. Better... Lazy fool is better than him because he will not create so much harm, but this busy fool will simply create harm. And first class-man is lazy intelligent. He knows the value of life, and soberly he is thinking. Just like all our great saintly persons. They were living in the forest, meditation, tapasya, and writing books. All, you will find, lazy intelligent. They are first-class men.
Prabhupāda: And as soon as you go under the jurisdiction of Kṛṣṇa, sarva-dharmān paritiyaja mām ekam, then there is no jurisdiction of māyā. Just like as soon as the sun rises there is no more darkness, automatically. You do not require to dissipate the darkness. As soon as there is sun, everything is light. (aside to passerby:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya! Mam eva ye prapadyante māyām etā taranti te. This is the process. It is simple method. To become under the jurisdiction of māyā it requires great labor. But to become under the jurisdiction of Kṛṣṇa, it takes a minute. But these rascals will not do that. Kṛṣṇa...
Dr. Patel: Because Kṛṣṇa Himself has made your eyes, all these indriyas outgoing, so...
Prabhupāda: Indriya, He has made your eyes to see Kṛṣṇa, not a prostitute. That is your fault. Kṛṣṇa has given you eyes to see Him, but you are utilizing to see a prostitute. That is not Kṛṣṇa's fault; that is your fault. Eyes are not bad. Kṛṣṇa has given you eyes to see: Kṛṣṇa. But we are utilizing for other purpose. That is our fault. We are presenting this Kṛṣṇa's Deity in the temple, but who is coming to utilize his eyes? Nobody is coming. They will go to see cinema, beautiful actress; so they are ultilizing the eyes for this purpose.
Prabhupāda: Now we want to finish this. If you have got any good contact on labor?
Mr. Sar: Contact labor? Labor contact?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (some short discussion) We want to finish as soon as possible and give another set of contract. Labor contract.
Dr. Patel: Yes, yes. I'll try to find out. (some discussion about contractors)
Prabhupāda: (break) ...is the form where the animal can take education and become a human being.
Dr. Patel: Now these human beings they get educated from animals.
Prabhupāda: No, no. This is not education. This jara avidya, material education, is no education. It doesn't require any education. This education for eating, sleeping, education, that is not education, that is cats and dogs they also know how to do it without education. Real education is brahma-vidyā. Athāto brahma jijñāsā—this is education. So that is now given up throughout the whole world. Nobody is interested in Brahman; they are simply interested in sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: Saṁsārīs, (indistinct) for the saṁsārīs. When Kṛṣṇa says, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14), this is for saṁsārīs. Saintly person doesn't require anna. It is meant for the saṁsārī. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni. Catur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam: (BG 4.13) This division of society is meant for the saṁsārī, to control division of labor. Everything is for the saṁsārī. It is not meant for the paramahaṁsa. Paramahaṁsa-saṁhitā is Bhāgavata. This is ABC. These people, they do not understand even the ABC. This is the difficulty. They cannot learn even the ABCD of spiritual knowledge.
Prabhupāda: That is here also. Everywhere. Therefore Bhāgavata says, "No, no, no. This is not life." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājām nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān (SB 5.5.1). So much labor for getting your bread. That is immediately stopped.
Dr. Patel: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: That is the misfortune. And how it started, this ball? Who made the ball rolling? He, he makes the ball. This is modern education.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Everyone is the architect of his own fortune.
Dr. Patel: No, no. I talk of the samaṣṭi sir. He...
Prabhupāda: Samāṣṭi, sama and aṣṭi together makes samaṣṭi. If you become devotee, I become devotee, everyone becomes.... Then samaṣṭi, devotee. And if you are nondevotee, I'm a nondevotee, then.... Combination of nondevotees. That's all. We have to therefore change this group, where we shall live. Satāṁ prasanga mama virya sambhava bhavānti nitkarma. (indistinct) If you live with the devotees, then these topics of transcendental subject matter becomes palatable. Otherwise it is nonpalatable. Therefore they do not like to come to the temple to hear our lecture. Nonpalatable.
Prabhupāda: Ah, anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ, kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ sa sannyāsī... (BG 6.1). One who does not take the reward of his labor, he is sannyāsī. Anāśritaḥ karam-phalaṁ. Everyone works for some profit, and one who does not take the profit, works for Kṛṣṇa, he is sannyāsī. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ, kāryam. Kāryam means it is my duty to work for Kṛṣṇa. In this way one works, he is sannyāsī. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ, sa sannyāsī ca yogī ca na niraghir na cākriyaḥ. He is yogi also. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (to passerby) Just like Arjuna. He is fighting not for himself; for himself he declined to fight. But when he understood that Kṛṣṇa wants, "All right, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). I shall fight. I shall kill my grandfather and everyone." This is sannyāsī.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Hariśauri: The other day.
Prabhupāda: Now eat cash. So cash is also paper. So what is the use of laboring so hard? You eat paper. Paper is available.
Devotee (1): It is prohibited to buy gold at that temple.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Devotee: You cannot buy gold. Government has prohibited.
Prabhupāda: Because you are rascal, your government is rascal-democracy. What is the government? Government means your replica. So why do you blame the government? You are fools, rascals; you send other fools and rascals and suffer consequence. (break) ...tea, growing tobacco, growing jute, and no grains. And grain for the animal, so that animal, as soon as it becomes fatty, send it to the slaughterhouse, and then finish business. Smoke, eat meat, drink, and be happy. So much land, but it is producing tobacco, which we are prohibiting, "No smoking." (break) Vegetable is utilized. (Hindi) These crops. (Hindi) (break) ...nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Do it. (break) ...foolish person in the whole world. You allow vandals to come and break your dolls. (break) ...give them protection, even to the dolls. (break) ...made with so much labor and you allowed the vandals to come in?
Jayapatāka: Actually, I think it was our own children.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Anyway, why did you not keep it properly? (break) ...painting will begin?
Jayapatāka: Begin right away, Śrīla Prabhupāda. This week.
Prabhupāda: These arches will be filled up with stones?
Jayapatāka: Yes.
Jayapatāka: They want advance because they have so many expenses for labors and they just started producing. It's helps them.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Twenty rupees per thousand?
Jayapatāka: That means over two and a half thousand you save five thousand rupees.
Prabhupāda: So we have to advance two and a half thousand?
Jayapatāka: No. We have to advance about thirty thousand.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To save five thousand you have to advance thirty thousand.
Jayapatāka: You get all the supply within one month.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Then they have no money. They want to manufacture with our money. Is that?
Jayapatāka: Well, then they'll supply at full price.
Jayapatākā: Is that... Tamāla Kṛṣṇa's money can be used for that?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. You simply give him account. You will get as much money as you require. (break) ...think that you must be assured that it is going to be finished before the festival. Otherwise don't engage so many men uselessly. Take assurances that it will be finished. Then make so many people engaged. Otherwise there is no need. Only fifty men is sufficient.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I remember with the first building what we did is with the contractor, the labor contractor, we held back a little bit of his money on the guaranteed.
Jayapatākā: These are not contractors.
Prabhupāda: Contractor or no contractor, but you be assured. Otherwise don't engage.
Jayapatākā: He said we can finish all the brick work in two weeks.
Prabhupāda: I don't not know what they say, but I want finished within two months. Then engage so many men. Otherwise why you are uselessly...?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Six weeks left.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) How they are bringing ruination. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). The blind men led by another blind man. It is not new. In the Bhāgavata therefore it is warned that "Don't follow hog philosophy." Viḍ-bhujāṁ ye. This kind of philosophy, that for sense gratification, laboring whole day and night, writing books, philosophizing and all these things, it is meant for the hogs, not for human being. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This kind of civilization is meant for the hogs. So they are exhibiting that they are no better than hog.
Harikeśa: On the earth.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then in Tretā-yuga one-fourth diminished. And then Dvāpara-yuga, half diminished. And in Kali-yuga, three-fourth diminished. Seventy-five per cent are all rogues, and twenty-five per cent... That is expected, but that is now diminishing. They are all rogues with the advancement of Kali-yuga. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10). Therefore there is no other method to save them. Harer nāmaiva kevalam. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's gift. Incorrigible. Everyone will be incorrigible. Only hope is Hare Kṛṣṇa. The whole Vedic system is to make human being correct. Being incorrect, they are suffering in this material world repetition of birth, death. Sometimes man, sometimes dog. So to correct him so that he comes to his original position, Kṛṣṇa conscious, and go back to home. This is the whole Vedic civilization, to correct him. Therefore it is called saṁskāra. Saṁskāra means correction. Saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. Veda-pāṭhād bhaved vipro brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ.(?)To correct him and bring him to the brahminical stage. From pig stage to brahminical stage. This is Vedic civilization. Everyone is like pig in this material world. Therefore Ṛṣabhadeva says, "Now don't live like pig." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye: (SB 5.5.1) "Now, you, My children... " He was advising, instructing His son that "Now this life is not to live like pig." This is the first instruction, because everyone is more or less pig, living like pig. Pig means he has no discrimination of eating and he has no discrimination of sex. That is pig. And everyone is like that. No discrimination of eating, especially in the Western. And no discrimination of sex. Pigs. Big pig or small pig, that's all. So Ṛṣabhadeva says, "Now My dear sons, don't spoil your life living like pigs." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke. Nṛloke means "In the human society you should not live like pig and very hard labor." So the whole civilization at the present moment they want to live like pig, and to live like pig they are working like an ass. And that is civilization, working like ass to become a pig. You tell them!
Prabhupāda: Division of labor.
Acyutānanda: Division of labor.
Prabhupāda: (break)... gradually no simple life. Struggle for existence, very, very...
Acyutānanda: People confuse change for progress. When it is just changed and done in a more complicated way, they think it is called progress. That is also the Communist thing when there is protest: "Oh, well, you have to accept change. It's natural. It's a natural change."
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is communal thought.
Harikeśa: Kick him on the face.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) No, don't say like that. But the thing is.... Business means.... Business means four things. Yes, we are businessman. I was student of economics. I know how to do business, and the business principle means you require four things: land, labor, capital, organization. So, ordinary man cannot do that. Otherwise, everyone would have done some business and become millionaires. But it requires these four things: land, labor, organization, and capital. So where you have got these? You have neither land, neither capital, neither place. So how you can do business? I am doing business because I have got all these things. I went to America-land. Then I worked-labor. Then I earned some capital, and I have got brain how to do it. (to Lokanātha) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So why you are becoming paramahaṁsa? This is paramahaṁsa dress.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that Australian...? (break)
Satsvarūpa: "It is a work to be treasured. The opportunity to receive the profound teachings of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in the West has been made possible by the devoted labor of Śrīla Prabhupāda. The clarity and precision of his commentaries on the text have rarely been equaled. No one of whatever faith or philosophical persuasion who reads this book with an open mind can fail to be both moved and impressed. The spirit of its message shines brightly from the pages."
Rāmeśvara: Jaya!
Ghanaśyāma: And he's a psychologist. Usually psychologists, they're very much sort of against spiritual life. Śrīla Prabhupāda, this one here, this is one of the biggest linguistic schools in the world, and this gentleman was the chairman of the department, so he's known all over the world for his studies in different kinds of languages.
Prabhupāda: Hm. What does he say?
Satsvarūpa: "It is axiomatic that no book can be expected entirely to satisfy all its potential readers.
Akṣayānanda: I don't know.
Prabhupāda: No, for village the government is not going to keep such nice road. This government department, forest department.... The government policy is to develop these places for industry in future. This industry is the cause of falldown of the human society—industry. So the reaction is.... The industry, two things required—four things required: land, labor, capital, and organization. So now the industry is going on, and the capitalists and labor, there is fight. The laborers, they are finding out that "We are working. Why the capitalists will take the profit?" This is communism. Is it not?
Akṣayānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: India has no, had no such ideas. They are borrowing ideas. India's idea is self-realization. Live very simple life—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. The brāhmaṇas, they are living simple life, becoming very learned scholar, pure character, advanced in spiritual life—one class, ideal. And kṣatriyas, they are supposed to be the king. They distribute the land on nominal taxation, and the vaiśyas utilize the land for cultivation and cow-keeping, and the śūdras, they are engaged as weaver, blacksmith, goldsmith, mean other necessities of life. In this way the whole society is simplified, and the central point is how to become advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness by cooperation. This is India's civilization. There is no question of industry. Ugra-karma. It has been condemned in the Bhagavad-gītā as ugra-karma, laboring very hard for livelihood. This industry means engage the poor worker class to work very hard, and there is huge profit, and some directors of the capitalists, they take it. And they have one dozen motorcars, palatial building, no work, simply wine and woman, that's all. This is going on.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You once gave the example of a mouse. The mouse digs a hole, and then the snake comes along and takes the house away from the mouse.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And eats him. The mouse makes very comfortable home by digging, and the snake comes, he enters without any labor, and the mouse is there and he eats it.
Jayādvaita: Free food and free home.
Prabhupāda: Yes, ājagara-vṛtti. What is that? Python. Ājagara-vṛtti and madhukāra-vṛtti. For your necessities of life either you take ājagara-vṛtti or madhukāra-vṛtti. Madhukāra means the fly, honeybee, bees. They take little from this flower, little from this flower, and they stock it, and somebody comes and takes it away. Don't stock. Therefore we have to follow this, that whatever money is coming, spend it for publication or for constructing temple. No account in the bank. Finish.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...intelligence and kṣatriya's executive power and vaiśya's productive capacity and śūdra's labor. This combined together makes the whole society perfect.
Dr. Patel: How this social order can be generated in India?
Prabhupāda: (to passerby:) Thank you. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Indian man: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: The kṣatriya's duty is that everyone is religious. It doesn't matter whether he follows Muslim or.... That is kṣatriya's duty, not that to discriminate, "The Hindu religion is better than the Muslim religion. Muslim..." That is not the way. If everyone is religious, it doesn't matter whether he is Hindu...
Dr. Patel: No religious Muslim would have ever done harm to Hindus.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Many? What you...? Many followers.... The philosophy you present, it must be followed by everyone. That is wanted. You have got, say, ten thousand followers. That does not mean success. Everyone has got some followers. This.... What is that? Guruji Maharaja. He has got also so-called followers. The T.M., he has got also some followers. Everyone has got some followers. But what kind of followers they have? That is quality. Everything has quality. Simply quantity is not. There are many Christians. Even up to date, some Christian fair or.... Many millions will come. What is the quality? Quality is all meat-eater. But Christian means he should not kill. Where is the Christian? So we have to test by the quality, followers. Not many followers, the quality of the followers. My Guru Mahārāja used to say like that, that "If I get at least one quality disciple, then all my labor will be success." He was saying like that: quality, not the quantity. By quantity if one is amazed, then he is also goru. By quality—what kind of followers? That is the.... From the very beginning my strictures are there, that "You have to follow this"—quality. If I were..., "No, you can do like Vivekananda.
Prabhupāda: Then we shall see that you have surpassed the laws of.... The laws of nature is there must be water. Nature is supplying. And you are trying to imitate. But if you say that "We can overpass the nature's law," then you produce without water. Then you'll be able. Then we shall see that you have gone above.... This, you are following the nature's. That is not surpassed. That is following little properly. Now you have arranged for water. That's very good. But if nature pours water, then you save so much labor. Do you know that, how nature will supply water profusely? You haven't got to make artificial arrangement for water. Do you know that? Ask them. We know that.
Reporter: Right.
Prabhupāda: Yes. God, service to God means, just like you put foodstuff in the stomach. Then the service, supplying energy, is distributed automatically. The eyes get service, the ears get service, the hands get service, legs get service, everything. But if you put foodstuff in the eyes, instead of giving service, you make it blind. If you put foodstuff in the ear, instead of hearing, it is blocked. Then that is ignorance. You do not know where to give service. The knowledge, God consciousness, means to know where to give service, so that the service will be automatically distributed. You pour water on the root of the tree and the energy will be distributed to the trunk, to the branches, to the twigs, to the leaves, to the flowers, everyone. We are missing their point. This is scientific,
- yathā taror mūla-niṣecanena
- tṛpyanti tat-skandha-bhujopaśākhāḥ
- prāṇopahārāc ca yathendriyāṇāṁ
- tathaiva sarvārhaṇam acyutejyā
- (SB 4.31.14)
So instead of giving service in so many ways—social, political, philosophical, cultural, this way, that way—if you simply learn how to serve God, then everything will be done. So that is our philosophy, and we are laboring for this purpose, that you understand God and give service to Him, then the whole society will be perfect, peaceful.
Prabhupāda: Ah, thank you. This is the disease. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). The rascal, he is bewildered, vimūḍhātmā, on account of false egotism. Just like we are inviting everyone: Please come and learn Bhagavad-gītā. "Huh! Bhagavad-gītā, let us go the sea and swim." Surfer, surfer? They are taking so much trouble. I have not see here; in Hawaii. For hours together, struggling with waves. I've seen it South Africa also. Very fond of this surf sporting. So they are wasting so much time and laboring so hard just to become fish. Yes, they are going to be fish. Because at the time of death they'll think of "How I am jumping in the water, surfing." That is natural. Sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ (BG 8.6). Because he has constantly thought over his sporting, naturally he'll think of sporting in the water.
Prabhupāda: Hm? (laughs)
Hṛdayānanda: They can no longer control England. They are having fights between the labor and management. They cannot control it.
Prabhupāda: Why? What is the difficulty?
Hari-śauri: Communists.
Hṛdayānanda: No, between the laborers and the management. They are having great, always strikes, and the British industry is becoming crippled.
Prabhupāda: And there is another problem, Irish problem. The Irish men, they are dropping bombs in London, in daytime. Creating always disturbance.
Prabhupāda: Yes?
Rādhāvallabha: Answer the door.
Hari-śauri: In England, their whole difficulty with the labor.... (several people talk at once, door is open, kīrtana going on)
Prabhupāda: Let him in.
Rādhāvallabha: It's Govinda dāsī. Tell her to come in.
Hari-śauri: But the union problem they have in England, that's why the whole country now is in disruption because the labor is always on strike. They did a survey, and they found out that all the major union leaders are Communists.
Prabhupāda: And they're making money.
Prabhupāda: And still we save expenditure. You hypnotize by drinking. (laughter) We haven't got to pay for that, whiskey bottle. That is also hypnotizing. You want to forget all day's labor by drinking. That is also hypnotizing. Or by gambling. So we also hypnotize. Better hypnotizing method.
Jayādvaita: In New York, you argued that it may be hypnotizing, but by this hypnosis we get people to give up gambling, intoxication, meat-eating and illicit sex. So it should be adopted.
Śrutakīrti:( break) ...some very interesting statistics this morning about drinkers in this country.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: My father, he's the president of this liquor company, and they study the charts to see who is drinking the most. And they have discovered that the biggest drinkers in the world are the politicians in Washington, D.C., that they drink more liquor than anyone.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They have got so many anxieties. So many anxieties.
Prabhupāda: And after this hard labor, his only recreation is wine. Did you drink?
Hari-śauri: (laughs) Yes, we used to go straight from the steel works to the pub, public house.
Jagadīśa: I also worked in a factory for a while. Same thing. And people were always getting hurt.
Prabhupāda: You are not meant for that. (laughs)
Hari-śauri: No.
Prabhupāda: I thought you joined from college?
Jagadīśa: Yes, but during the summer I had a job in a factory.
Prabhupāda: Oh, to get some money.
Jagadīśa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Because I honestly think of it. Maybe others are also honest, but they do not know the right way. How they can be honest? Just like this Communist movement. They are favoring the labor class and rejecting the capitalist class altogether. They cannot make any adjustment.
Jagadīśa: I've understood that communism is presented by the administrative class when there is a condition of scarcity. When there is opulence, then there is room for personal individual enterprise, but when there is scarcity, that cannot be encouraged, and the common people have to be subjugated. So capitalism and communism are both simply philosophies how to keep the common man satisfied. So it's simply another means of exploitation.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is exploitation, and actually they have done it.
Hari-śauri: There is still one class of men living at the expense of another, whether it's Communist.... (end)
Indian man: Is this agreement due to learning or out of...?
Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya mām (BG 18.66), you surrender, you become qualified. You agree, "Yes, I surrender, Kṛṣṇa says." Then immediately you become qualified. But that you do not do. Kṛṣṇa is personally canvassing, but we are not agreeing. What can be done? If I say, with a bag of million dollars, "Take this bag," if you don't agree, then you remain poor man. But you agree, "Yes, without any labor I'm getting the million dollars. Well, all right." Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). To come to that Kṛṣṇa consciousness rightly and surrender to Kṛṣṇa, it takes many millions of births. But if one is intelligent, if this is the ultimate goal, that one has to come to this point, to surrender to Vāsudeva, why not do it immediately? That is intelligence. That is intelligence.
Prabhupāda: Then why you propose to help?
Indian man (4): No, but prabhu, how far is it fair that if one is religious, say chanting and regulations and everything he is doing, and on the other hand, he doesn't behave as a good honest labor...
Prabhupāda: That good honest..., you have got some idea of good honest. But because he's chanting, he's all good.
Devotees: Jaya.
Indian man (1): Prabhupāda, because he's chanting, sometimes a person get very false ego, that he has become a very big devotee, he's serving the Lord, and he tries to...
Prabhupāda: That's all right, he's on the line of goodness. But those who are not chanting, they're all bad. Do you understand it or not? Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. One who is not a devotee of God, he has no good qualification. You may propose that "I am so much good, I am this, I am that," but it is all bogus thing. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). He's simply concocting in the mind. And so far a devotee's concerned, even you find some defect in him, he's sādhu. Sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). Api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). Now I find some defective state. Kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā. These defects will be out very soon. Don't bother. But because he is devotee, he's sādhu.
Prabhupāda: That mercy depends on Him. You cannot dictate Him. If I am merciful, that will depend on me, whether I can show you mercy or I can condemn you. That is, depends on me. Simply on the basis of "God is merciful," I can do all unlawful things, this is not practical proposal. Merciful means it depends on me. Whether I shall show mercy or I shall be very strong and strict, that is my will, freedom. I may show you mercy, I may not show. You cannot force me, that "You must become merciful." That is not right. God is really merciful. Otherwise, how He's supplying this... In the morning if a fog, so God mercifully has asked sun, "Now give them some sunlight." So we are enjoying. He is merciful. When there is sunshine you see the sinful man and the pious man, both enjoy. That is His mercy. When he bestows His mercy, it is for all of them, either you are sinner or you are pious. That is God's mercy. Just like the cloud when it pours water, it does not make any discrimination. On the sea, there is also rainfall; on the rocks also, there is rainfall, where there is no necessity of rain. Therefore where is necessity of rainfall on rock? What is the use? There is no use. It is simply waste. So God also wastes: "All right, you take. You don't require; you also take." In the ocean there is no need of water, but when... The cloud pours water on the ocean also. Only on the land we can utilize, but God is so merciful, exactly like the raincloud, He is so merciful, where there is no necessity they are also getting rain, "Take rain." That is merciful. Without any discrimination, whether you want or not want, "Take it." That is mercy. You can show your mercy when there is scarcity water—you can bring some tanks of water from other places and put here—but how long you'll do it? But when the God is merciful, He'll pour rain so in large quantity that everyone will benefit. That is God's greatness. You'll have to spend so much money, labor, to bring a few buckets of water from other place.
Prabhupāda: Any sane man will be frustrated. Why you are spending money and going there? Kevala-bodha-labdhaya, kliśyanti kevala, bhaktim.... Kliśyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye teṣām asau kleśala eva śiṣyate nānyad yathā sthūla-tuṣāvaghātinām. Just like the husk... The outer portion of rice? If there is rice, you husk, beat it, rice will come. The rice is not there, simply husk, what is the use of this beating? It is like that. Rice will not come, simply they are trying to beat it. So the result is they become tired, that's all. They only result is they'll become tired. Kleśala eva śiṣyate, that's all. The result of hard labor is tiresome. So they'll get that only, that's all. They are satisfied, "Now we are tiresome, let us sleep." What you have gotten? "Dust." That's all. This is the philosophy. Bhaktim, what is that verse?
Pradyumna: Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8)?
Prabhupāda: Huh? That's not it. Kleśala, kleśala.
Hari-śauri: It's from the Bhāgavatam?
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is mentioned in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Any process you accept, rejecting devotional service, the result will be that there is no profit. You simply labor for nothing, as much as to beat the husk, you'll never get the rice, you will simply be tiresome, that's all. Just like so-called religion. There is no faith in God. There is no need of God, and "religion." This is nonsense. Religion means without God? This is going on. God, you can accept anyone, Ramakrishna Mission. Any rascal...He was a fool, illiterate rascal, Ramakrishna. He became God. No standard, and they are propagating Ramakrishna Mission. As we are preaching Kṛṣṇa is God, they are preaching Ramakrishna. And who's accepting them? For the last hundred years, they are preaching. So who has become a devotee of Ramakrishna?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's absurd to even think about becoming a devotee of Ramakrishna.
Prabhupāda: You have got Caitanya-caritāmṛta?
Pradyumna: I think it is Tenth Canto. Śreyaḥ śrutiṁ bhaktim? I've been making a list of all the verses that you quote most.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Rūpānuga: But sometimes the impersonalists, they say, Prabhupāda, that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is just the beginning platform, that after Kṛṣṇa consciousness then one can come to impersonal realization. They say that in the scriptures only Bhagavad-gītā and a few scriptures teach about Kṛṣṇa but the rest of the Vedas don't even talk about Kṛṣṇa's name. So, therefore, this impersonalism is higher realization, but one comes to it, after bhakti.
Prabhupāda: No. There are Vedas, there are so many names described. Kṛṣṇa says, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). If one has not understood Kṛṣṇa by studying Vedas, then he has not studied Vedas. It is very confidential. Otherwise, why Kṛṣṇa says vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15)? If one has studied Veda, but has not understood Kṛṣṇa, then his labor is useless. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). If one is actually jñānavān, then he (indistinct). Śaṅkarācārya said bhaja govindam, bhaja govindam. That is real knowledge. But if one says that in the Vedas, you don't find Kṛṣṇa's name, then he has not studied Veda. Because Kṛṣṇa says, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). The actual purpose of studying Vedas means to understand Kṛṣṇa. If one has not understood Kṛṣṇa, then śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). They have simply labored for nothing.
Prabhupāda: What is your question?
Vipina: I was talking to Dr. Diksha and I was explaining to him that if he was unable to chant or to become a full-time devotee, that your program for a person in that condition of life, was something like Life Membership Program, whereby he could become a member of the Society, maintain his occupational duty, but become a member and take books and read and try to understand gradually that way. Is that satisfactory, if they can do that much, that would be, some way they would be serving Kṛṣṇa to your satisfaction? (Prabhupāda laughs)
Prabhupāda: Yes, we are taking so much labor in writing books. If somebody reads, certainly that is satisfaction. (laughter)
Rūpānuga: It is to their benefit, Śrīla Prabhupāda, if they read.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I am writing for reading by others.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, and it will be respected in the big circles.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. If they are getting respect talking all nonsense, and here we shall glorify the Supreme Lord, why not respect?
- ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā
- varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ
- svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya
- saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam
- (SB 1.2.13)
When they try to satisfy the senses of Kṛṣṇa, His glory, then the Ph.D. is perfect. And if continues to talk nonsense, then it is useless waste of time and labor.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Rāmeśvara: They don't know how to engage them, so they just give them free money. Also famous for its labor unions, the most powerful in America. They force the city to pay the highest wages for the garbage men, for school teachers, the highest anywhere in the country. So that's another reason they are in debt so much. (out of car, walking)
Ādi-keśava: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there's one of our posters for our Ratha-yātrā.
Prabhupāda: Yes. What they are doing here(?).
Rāmeśvara: The highest paid garbage men in America.
Prabhupāda: Still it is unclean. This is subway.
Prabhupāda: Laboring.
Interviewer: You say not separating but liberating?
Prabhupāda: Not liberating.
Interviewer: I didn't understand your repl...
Hari-śauri: Could you repeat the question again?
Interviewer: Many people say that members of the International Kṛṣṇa Consciousness Society are being cut off from work in the world and therefore their contributions to the world are being lost to the world and I wondered how you felt about that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But they have misunderstood.
Prabhupāda: That don't mind labor. You try to grow portal here. You have got greenhouse.
Devotee: Some bitter melons. Some karelā melons.
Prabhupāda: Everything. Bījaṁ māṁ sarva-bhūtānām (BG 7.10). The pitā is there. Properly put it into the womb of mother earth. That is the process. Bījaṁ māṁ sarva-bhūtānām. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā. Harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). (film projector comes on)
Bhagavān: Last year's European tour.
Devotee: This is the City Hall in Geneva, Switzerland.
Devotee: After you spoke with the mayor in Geneva, Śrīla Prabhupāda, he was worried about the economy of the country, when you explained if we cultivated grains there will be no problem.
Yogeśvara: "If people become devotees of Kṛṣṇa, then who will work?"
Prabhupāda: What was answer?
Hari-śauri: What answer did you give?
Yogeśvara: Do you remember the answer Śrīla Prabhupāda gave?
Devotee: Prabhupāda said we work for cultivating grains. All living entities to live together peacefully. (projector goes off)
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Bhagavān: You have done something very extraordinary.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I was explaining our ecstasy. (laughter) Who will feel that ecstasy? That is not possible. They can lecture only. No ecstasy. Here is ecstasy, that is the difference. Ecstasy means immediately on the spiritual platform. (end)
Prabhupāda: This is family relation. Ṛktha-haraiḥ svajanākhya-dasyubhiḥ. Ṛktha-haraiḥ(?). Their only business is that you earn money with hard labor, and they'll take away. Their business is to take away. And they have got legal right. Dāya, dāya-bhāga. The son has got the right, legal right, to take whatever the father has accumulated. Nobody will say "No, you cannot take." No, he has the right, and so far wife is concerned, her business is to extend your condition, material condition. When one is alone, brahmacārī, he has no condition, he lives freely. But as soon as he's married, so many obligations. Ato gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittaiḥ (SB 5.5.8), must have a nice house, must have good land, good source of income. And then if you have got house and good source of income, then you call friends to oblige them.
Devotee: The government encourages this spending of money while the citizens are unhappy and cannot be safe in their own city.
Prabhupāda: Yes, you must have such government. Dasyu-dharyogi (?). They will snatch your money by force. You cannot say anything. That is punishment. Godless civilization, that is punishment, that your own government will snatch, by force, take away your hard labor accumulation, by taxes. That is written in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. You cannot fight. You will be harassed in so many ways you will become mad. Ācchinna-dāra-draviṇā yāsyanti giri-kānanam. Hopelessly you will leave hearth and home and go to the forest. This godless civilization will be punished like that. That day is coming like that. Nobody will be peaceful. They will be mad. Just like when a man becomes mad, he commits suicide, he blows off his head. This will be done. There will be no rain—this is one punishment—and scarcity of food and heavy taxation by government. They are all mentioned. What more suffering you want? But still they are advancing, scientists.
Prabhupāda: Jaya. Take prasāda and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, that's all. And we have now nice buildings. Live there peacefully, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Bas. This is my success. If I see that you are living very nicely, chanting very nicely, then all my labor is successful.
Hari-śauri: Hare Kṛṣṇa. So if all the devotees would like to leave now, then Prabhupāda can rest a little bit from traveling.
Harikeśa: You can distribute prasāda in the hall.
Prabhupāda: Oh, you are older than me.
Older man: Your blessings.
Prabhupāda: Live peacefully, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. It is for you, so many buildings. Let devotees come, live here peacefully, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, that's all. That I want.
Prabhupāda: That is being done through books.
Indian man (3): But sir, books are for such people who can read, who can understand.
Prabhupāda: Yes, something can be done by showing the picture, but taking consideration of the labor and money invested in that way, the response will be not satisfactory. It is not possible.
Indian man (3): What I was thinking was that we have a limited...
Prabhupāda: Simply by seeing that Kṛṣṇa is lifting the Govardhana Hill, they'll, many of them will laugh, that "This is all mythology. A boy is lifting Govardhana Hill." Many of them will laugh instead of taking seriously. Because unless one is devotee, he cannot understand what is Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as he sees the boy Kṛṣṇa is lifting Govardhana Hill—he does not understand what is Kṛṣṇa-he'll laugh.
Indian man (3): That is elsewhere.
Prabhupāda: Everywhere. Here also.
Prabhupāda: It is Kṛṣṇa's desire. Nobody is useless. I was also useless. I could not do in India alone anything. This is... Again this example (laughs). Two useless makes useful. Intelligence alone cannot work. Money is required. One man was challenged, "You have no intelligence." So he said, "Yes." He was searching these..."No, why you are searching here?" "No, here is intelligence. If here is money, then my intelligence can work. Otherwise what is the use of intelligence?" But he was searching here," Whether I have got intelligence?" Simply intelligence... In industry also: land labor capital, organization, four things. Simple capital will not do. Simple organization will not do. A man may have very good brain power, organization, but if he has no money-useless. So four things required: land, labor, capital, organization. That minister in Raṅganātha (?), he is inclined to spend huge income of Tirupati, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But he is bound up by other colleagues. They are applying the money. So he's willing to call all the ministers if I can convince them. I shall try it. Just... In the Bhagavad-gītā, that is, yajñārthe karma. Everyone is karmī. So the karmīs, the village cultivators or big men industrialists, they are going to Tirupati. Whatever then can spare, they are offering. That is yajñārthe. If this money is taken and again if it is brought into karmī, then it is misleading. Karmīs are giving them. Just like people are giving us money. They are karmīs. But because they are giving us and we are engaging the money in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so the money is fully utilized. But if this money again taken and again to the karmīs....
Prabhupāda: I'm writing one letter to the governor that I work hard, I print my books and they are selling, and if I bring the money to construct temple, why people are envious? What is the wrong there? Rather, I should be encouraged that I am bringing so much money in India, foreign exchange, by my hard labor. So why they are envious? Why... I have sent this to the governor.
Jayapatākā: To the governor?
Prabhupāda: Governor, Mr. Chandra Reddy. "Why, wherefrom they are getting money, where, why?" That is my very, very hard labor, that's all. Is it wrong if a man works hard and gets money in foreign country and bring in India?
Gargamuni: I think they cannot believe that a sādhu could have so much money from selling books.
Prabhupāda: That may be beyond their dream, but I am not so-called sādhu. I am trying to execute the orders of my Guru Mahārāja, predecessor. I am not a so-called sādhu, taking a saffron robe, begging for fulfilling the belly.
Prabhupāda: When the Englishmen were ruling over this country and Gandhi had to do so much labor, his life sacrificed, some way or other they were gone. Now the same Englishman is working here as book distributor. (laughs) Who was our ruler. So whose achievement is better? Gandhi's or mine?
Gargamuni: Yours.
Prabhupāda: And one Englishman is giving me massage. This rascal criticizing. But they have come to me for money? They are poor or they are illiterate fools? They have come to me for money or some material gain? No. Unless they are convinced about the spiritual gain, why they should give me such service? They have no eyes to see.
Krishna Modi: No. Yesterday. Because yesterday I was to come here. But I was called by Mr. Brahmānanda and he told me that you have come here (indistinct) so that I want to know something (indistinct). One question was put up in Rājya-sabhā and he's (indistinct) there. I told him that he's full of (indistinct). There are some gentlemen of er..., labor minister and from (indistinct) Andhra Pradesh. They were also there. (indistinct) Mr. D. D. Desai is also there. (indistinct) And we have discussed at length. And we have told them and there is no restriction (indistinct) the size and to everybody. And you see then it is in Indian history, it is first time that something has been done. All people are saying that they have done in America, they have done in so many centers all over the world and then we are, something like that, it is shameful.
Prabhupāda: It is Indian culture.
Prabhupāda: So if an Indian brings from foreign country by his labor eight lakhs of rupees per month, how much credit he should be given? He should be recognized. But instead of recognizing they are criticizing.
Krishna Modi: This is their way, sir. They have to. They must do it. Because...
Prabhupāda: So you kindly speak to the Parliament that "This is the position, that he is working day and night..."
Krishna Modi: Oh no, I will speak very high about this. Let them, let the matter come. And if not come then we will take this matter. I will give the question. You please reply how much money is coming and in what way they are doing.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: You can fix up a little fan, then this labor can be saved.
Caraṇāravindam: You would like electric fan or hand pulled. Hand pulled?
Prabhupāda: No no, electric. A small table fan. Just like in the railway carriage. Let them fix up. Small ceiling fan.
Hari-śauri: You can get very small ones that fasten on the front of motor cars on the inside for fanning the driver. Just a small unit.
Caraṇāravindam: I was wanting to, in the future, build you a very beautiful construction here.
Prabhupāda: No, it is all right.
Prabhupāda: Simply creating problems. Lavana haila ithe gatila jagya.(?) This modern civilization, they could not make any profit. They have created some problems, that's all. Very dangerous civilization.
Haṁsadūta: There was one writer, he wrote a book about the cities, these big modern cities. And he said that in the future the price of labor will become so enormous that to break down the old buildings in these cities which have been built to become obsolete, will be impossible. And the whole place will become swamp land by that. (end)
Prabhupāda: And by this collection, from this collection, we are bringing money in India. We are bringing money in India not less than ten lakhs of rupees per month. Our buildings and temples are going on in Bombay, in Vṛndāvana, in Navadvīpa. So we have got at least ten lakhs of rupees expenditure for these temples, and that I am bringing from foreign countries. So if by laboring hard at night in this dictaphone, I write books and I sell them in the foreign countries and I bring the money here for spending in India, do you think it is faulty?
Interviewer: One American professor who is a teacher of Hinduism there, in some of the universities you mentioned, she said, I asked him a question about ISKCON, and she said, "Well this thing is creating a bad impression in the sense that people are accosted everywhere, in the streets, on the airport, at the bus stand. They accost you and force you to buy their literature, to buy their books. And this is creating a revulsion.
Prabhupāda: So why you are forced? Suppose as preaching work... In our childhood we saw the Christian preachers were also standing on the road. So if we stand on the road and preach and sell our books what is the fault?
Prabhupāda: Huh? It is not caste system. It is division of labor. It is not caste system. A class of men must be intelligent, a class of men must be strong to give protection. And a class of men must be to produce food, and a class of men, general worker. It is not caste system. Bhagavad-gītā never says caste system. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). According to quality and work. You have made it caste system. You have no qualification of a brāhmaṇa, you are calling, "I am brāhmaṇa." That is caste system. But if you have got the quality of a brāhmaṇa and you work as a brāhmaṇa, that is necessary. That is necessary. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Here they never satisfied. This is the modern mentality. Nobody is satisfied with his income. He wants more money. And for that purpose he can do anything rascal. I have seen it. This peon puts his bag without any responsibility. Letters are strewn and maybe some letters stolen. Who can say? And he came to earn some money. For some time he'll compose and get some labor. And in Calcutta I have seen all the office peons, they are sleeping in Dalhousie Square, the peon book as the pillow, for hours together. And when they, after distributing, when they return to the office it is going to be closed. And if they are asked explanation, "Why you are so late?" "Oh, he was not there. I had to wait three hours," and so on, so on, so on. Everyone is dishonest. Nobody is working honestly. Especially in India, because poverty-stricken. If they can sleep two hours he thinks that he has made some profit. Formerly people were God conscious. They did not like to cheat, that "God will be displeased." Now they don't believe in God, so they can do anything.
Devotee (2): You mean ice is covering the fire?
Prabhupāda: Yes, surrounding, cold atmosphere. Something like... But it is fiery. And how they say that sun reflects some dust? Eh? How people believe it? (break) ...to be given in charge some plot of land to develop it.
Mahāṁśa: One problem that could arise by giving them a fixed place, especially giving these labor people, if we give them a fixed place, then tomorrow they may... If they break the principles we may want to remove them.
Prabhupāda: No, you should change every month.
Mahāṁśa: Yes. Because the new phrases by the government is that "Tillers become owners." Whoever tills the land, he becomes...
Prabhupāda: And this society is the society tillers, no individual person.
Prabhupāda: Rādhikā with Her friends, they are cooking. And they cook so nicely that parama ānande kṛṣṇa korena bhojana. With great pleasure Kṛṣṇa is eating. And that we have to distribute. Not dog's food. You do not know what is the purpose of this mission. No need. Here is a good chance, don't spoil it. Produce food. Make profit, you spend for Kṛṣṇa. Train all devotees how to cook. All women. Don't distribute dog's eatable things. Kṛṣṇa prasādam.
- rādhikāra pakka anna vividha byañjana
- parama ānande kṛṣṇa korena bhojana
Kṛṣṇa is taking with great pleasure. That prasādam you have to distribute. Not that dog is rejecting and you have and you distribute that prasādam. Why do you think like that? This prasādam, this so-called, rubbish thing which is rejected by dog and you are offering to the human being. You do it. If you have no money I shall pay. There is no question of scarcity of money. Don't spoil money, but spend for real purpose, that's all. And you arrange for huge agricultural... Whatever is required, water, we shall arrange for that. Labor. Everything. And if you perform yajña, there will be rain. Anyway, I asked you the other day to fill up the tank. What is the difficulty?
Prabhupāda: Yes. So how to adjust these things now? Do it.
Mahāṁśa: What I would suggest, Prabhupāda, is that I could stay here, and whatever work we have to do, we sit together in the morning or in the night and we decide, "Tomorrow we have to do so much. We need so much labor for vegetables. We need so much labor for this, this." We make up a whole schedule of work for the next day. And in the morning laborers come and Tejas, who has experience in agriculture, he can show how this has to be done, how that...
Prabhupāda: And he can speak Telegu also.
Mahāṁśa: Yes. And I can be there to see that there is proper communication. And then after ten o'clock, because laborers start work early morning, so at ten o'clock, then I can go to Hyderabad and do official work for the day, see the government people and things like that.
Prabhupāda: So what do you think? Eh?
Haṁsadūta: That's good.
Prabhupāda: That is all right?
Haṁsadūta: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Determination. Yes. "I must do it." And here if you make determination, everything is there. Everything is there. Such a vast land, and capital Kṛṣṇa will give. Land, labor. Labor is there. So simply organization required, that's all. Then everything is all right. Make use the production. First of all eat yourself as much as you... And then trade. Get money. People will be surprised at the organization. And there are twenty thousand men all round?
Mahāṁśa: No, that is... Just in very near villages there's about eight thousand.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. So if you can make one thousand person interested, then you'll be successful. So you can engage some worker for cutting the rocks.
Prabhupāda: Sa mahātmā. If you do not know vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19), śrama eva hi kevalam: (SB 1.2.8) simply you have labored hard. That's all. You have gained nothing. And if you understood Vāsudeva, then you understood everything. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati.
Dr. Ramachandra: How do you explain vṛṣṇīnāṁ vāsudevo 'smi?
Prabhupāda: Yes, He's the chief of everything. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). That is the... He is the origin of everything. Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. If you know the root, then you know the whole tree, where to water. If you water the root, so it, water goes. It goes to the highest twigs. You haven't got to take trouble to go to the up to pour water. You pour water in the root. This is the way.
Prabhupāda: He's taking so much labor. Through English?
Hari-śauri: Romanized devanāgarī. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...books, but they are not selling with... Where is my spectacle?
Hari-śauri: No, there's hundreds and millions of books in India, all, so many, and no one buys them. (long pause) The man's not very intelligent. He's showing a diagram here showing how the languages evolved through the ages. So he's put that the original language was spoken in Stonehenge, and he shows a man wearing a bearskin (laughs). (break)
Prabhupāda: ...some central point of unity. But the disunity is increasing.
Hari-śauri: Yes.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So Govinda dāsī, you are feeling all right? Like this atmosphere? So Caitya-guru, your program, that you are going to construct temple there? (break) Aiye (break) You must accept the standard way, then you'll get siddhi, you'll get sukha and parāṁ gati. Unless you follow the standard way, na sukhaṁ na parāṁ gatim. So if you have interest in bhakti-yoga, then you practice the bhakti-yoga properly. That will make you successful. Otherwise, teṣām asau kleśala eva śiṣyate, simply whatever labor you are doing, that is your profit and no other profit. Kleśala eva. Nānyad yathā sthūla-tuṣāvaghātinām. The example is tuṣa. Tuṣa you know? The skin of rice? Husk. Yes. So if there is paddy, if you beat it, you'll get rice. But if you beat on the husk, then...
Yogi Amrit Desai: You won't get anything.
Prabhupāda: But your gain is only that labor. So similarly, if you don't know what is the substance, you go on laboring, that laboring is your only achievement and nothing else.
Yogi Amrit Desai: Such a beautiful example. If you keep on beating the husk...
Prabhupāda: What you'll get?
Yogi Amrit Desai: The labor you get.
Prabhupāda: Śrama eva hi kevalam.
Prabhupāda: Śrama eva hi kevalam.
- dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ
- viṣvaksena-kathāsu yaḥ
- notpādayed yadi ratiṁ
- śrama eva hi kevalam
- (SB 1.2.8)
Śrama eva hi kevalam. What is the profit? (Hindi) Suar. Pigs. These are the natural examples. (Hindi) Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattvam (SB 5.5.1). Just purify your existence, that tapasya. Then you'll get... Yasmād brahma-saukhyam anantam. Ramante yoginaḥ anante (CC Madhya 9.29). That is real yogic perfection. Satyānande cid-ātmani. (Hindi) So if you have taken the bhakti-yoga system, do it nicely. You'll get success very quickly. Otherwise, śrama eva hi kevalam. So why should we waste our time, simply satisfied with the labor?
Trivikrama: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Plate is already made.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that's what I'm saying. No, I'm just saying by increased run how much can you save? So I imagine you save about three paisa, four paisa more per book. It's not enough to warrant extra investment. I have analyzed the difference between doing large print runs India and America. In America and Europe labor is very expensive. So to them, to stop the machine in between and start again, it's very expensive, so it makes a lot of difference. But in India labor is cheap. So for them to stop the machine in between and then start again, it's not so expensive. So the ceiling is not as great as the extra investment you have to put in. Therefore I'm not doing large run except where it's absolutely necessary.
Prabhupāda: No. Items which are selling, that we can do because...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Like Bhagavad-gītā we did one lakh.
Prabhupāda: ...to wait means that waste of time.
Prabhupāda: Grace means he'll willingly give you mercy, and mercy means you ask for mercy. Kṛpa-siddha. Sādhana-siddha and kṛpa-siddha. You are trying to earn one lakh of rupees—that is sādhana. But if somebody is gracious he can give you: "Take one lakh of rupees. Don't work hard." That is grace. That is kṛpa. You are ambitious for one lakh of rupees or somebody graciously give you: "All right, take." There are many persons. So that is grace. Otherwise, you earn by your hard labor. That is sādhana. Similarly, by association, by sādhana-bhakti, you attain perfection, and by grace also, you can attain perfection. Two ways. So those who are kṛpa-siddha, they are more fortunate. (Hindi) Preach this Bhagavad-gītā as it is. People will be benefited. You'll be benefited. Don't make unnecessary interpretation, misguide others and spoil your own life. That is very unfortunate. What is the difficulty to accept Bhagavad-gītā? There is no difficulty. Unfortunately we interpret in different way and take it other way. So our little attempt is to spread Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and whatever it may be, it is being accepted in the Western countries. Not by all. But the people in general, now the... Feeling the weight, they have now began opposing.
Gurudāsa: Was it introduced by the English?
Prabhupāda: Yes. India did not know what is tea. They started the tea gardens, and they recruited labors from India. We have seen in our childhood that Mahatma Gandhi Road. When I was standing on the gate, five hundred, six hundred laborers recruited from Bihar. Bihar and Orissa, these two provinces very poor. Even all these colonies, just like Trinidad... Where is Englishmen? If the laborers and Indians were sent... Therefore we find in Mauritius, in Africa, so many Indians. Their kingdom, first of all it was conquered by Indian soldiers. Then, when it was to be organized-Indian coolies, Indian laborers, Indian guards. They have got men and money, but they expanded Empire. So I am doing the same business: American money, American... (laughs) I am also a great politician.
Gargamuni: Yes, Leyland(?) Bank.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "Our Guru Mahārāja went to America with this hope—that Indian culture and American money combined together will save the world." That's a fact. Everything requires money, but we are securing money with hard labor. If money little easily comes, we can make very nice program.
Gargamuni: Yes. I told him that "If you can finance some of our programs, we can hold huge pandals."
Prabhupāda: American government can finance to any point. The present president is religious temperament, so why not arrange a meeting with him?
Gargamuni: Yes.
Hari-śauri: And his wife is very inclined towards India.
Prabhupāda: His wife.
Prabhupāda: What is that job?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: My job, my work, chemist, the instrument I work. Saying that... Must be written to the Federal Government, to the Labor Department, saying that there's nobody who would be able to do my job in the United States, qualified. Then the second condition is that by being employed myself, then nobody will be displaced. Any U.S. citizen will not be displaced by my employment. So those two conditions. And it has to be written by the university sponsor.
Prabhupāda: So very difficult, that.
Prabhupāda: So very difficult, that.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they did it. After that, I have to get from India government saying that Indian government has no objection for me to be in the United States. So I have to get from Central Government, from the Minister of Education, and I have to get one certificate from the passport office in Calcutta, Regional Passport Office. And I have to get one from Manipur Government saying that Manipur Government has no objection for me to be in the United States. And the Manipur Government objected, that they want me back to Manipur. So there was some difficulty at the beginning. So I told them that "No, no, don't say that. Just say that you don't need me." (laughter) So they did it, letter, and I got all those letters. And that letter has to go to Indian Embassy. First of all it has to go to Indian Consulate in San Francisco. And San Francisco has to send a letter of recommendation to Indian Embassy in Washington. And then the Embassy has to send to Federal Government to the Labor Department in Washington, State Department, saying that "Such and such has this letter."
Prabhupāda: So made it very complicated.
Prabhupāda: He was rascal number one. He brought three women with whom he had intimate connection. That is very easy to make intimate connection with woman in America. With money also. He brought. And with their money. Aurobindo also, the same thing. With woman's money they became rich, not like me, with hard labor of writing books and selling. I could also do. There was chance. But this is not my business to make intimate relation with woman and get money. I could do. There was chance. When attempt was failed, the man who introduced that woman to me, he one day said, "I have seen many swamis, but none like you." (laughter)
Prabhupāda: With determination. Otherwise, satataṁ kīrtayanto mām (BG 9.14). Satatam means twenty-four hours. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). But that we cannot do. Therefore to keep dṛḍha-vrata, we have fixed up a certain quantity. Chant that. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ kālāvasānī-kṛtau. About the Gosvāmīs-saṅkhyā-pūrvaka: "So many times." Not only chanting, also offering obeisances. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ. Nati means praṇati. "I shall offer obeisances hundred times." Gosvāmīs, they used to do that. Still in Rādhā-kuṇḍa, Vṛndāvana, you'll see many devotees. They offer, counting, flat, so many times. So we have to take some labor. It is not so easy thing that you realize (chuckling) God so easily. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ kālāvasānī-kṛtau. The valuable time of human life should be utilized only for cultivating Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is perfect. No other business. Sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). That is sarva-dharmān. But if you cannot do that, all right, make
minimum: "So many times I shall chant. So many times I shall offer obeisances." Make some dṛḍha-vrata. Then gradually it will be successful.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). The other day you were asking me about the wages, labor.
Jayapatākā: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So our point is the devotees shall work. So there is no program to pay wages.
Jayapatākā: Gradually, more and more, we're getting more devotees who can work in the agriculture. But to date, most of the people that join are either the handloomers or... We're getting mostly handloomers and to some extent some more learned, more educated boys.
Prabhupāda: Not labor class.
Jayapatākā: Not labor class. But we need them also for translation and other things. So to make up the gap them we had to hire. But that's lessened... Now we're getting also. Some labor class are joining.
Prabhupāda: So hire. That also he can become devotee. He can spare fifty percent of his income. Then he becomes a devotee. Hiring men and working, I don't think that will be very profitable. Then we can purchase from the market.
Jayapatākā: Even a lot of men are used for making the garden. In the beginning, converting the land to garden land for flowers requires a lot of labor. Because flowers require very...
Prabhupāda: Fertile.
Jayapatākā: ...fertile and particularly fine soil that has to be dug and chopped and cleaned out.
Prabhupāda: Ordinary soil flower does not grow?
Jayapatākā: No, it... Not so well. In our city project we are thinking that those laborers who would be devotees, mostly the labor class, they won't like to live separate from their families. So we were thinking that they could be paid something, and then they would give half of that, as you suggested, back. In this way they would be devotees, And they would eat prasāda with everyone and attend all the programs, but they'd buy their own cloth and things with the other half. But they would have to have separate quarters somewhere.
Prabhupāda: Where? Within our campus or outside?
Jayapatākā: That would be a separate area.
Jayapatākā: Where... Just the place would have to be... Their place is a bit irregular. Seeing the ultimate plan, we have to find out one place. It would be in this area somewhere. Now they're keeping records of how much is spent on agriculture, and how much is received. So what is the profit or loss, that can be ascertained. And actually that's not such a threat because I know that many of the things he is doing by contract. If at some time we need outside laborer for, say, harvest time, we need to harvest—so we pay them ten rupees or twenty rupees to harvest one bighā. So there is no question of labor. That is the contract.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayapatākā: In so many ways we can...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayapatākā: ...go around that.
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Brahmānanda: Yes. But he's our good friend and supporter. He will help us in Mombassa very much.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Farm project is very nice. Kṛṣṇa gives. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). This is economic problem solved. And brāhmaṇa, brain problem solved, and kṣatriya, protection problem solved, and śūdra, labor problem solved. Four things combined together, live peacefully, happily. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Introduce this farm project. In America there is enough scope. So much land is lying vacant. And if there are jungles, cut the jungles; use the wood. Just like our Virginia. Big, big jungles. You cut the woods, you get ground, open field, and utilize the logs for house-making. Food, shelter, everything there. In Africa, everywhere, the nature's way. Pūrṇam idam (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation). Everything, complete arrangement by Kṛṣṇa. We have to little work. Śarīra-yātrāpi ca te na prasiddhyed akarmaṇaḥ. If you sit idly, then you'll starve. Otherwise everything is there.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They'll leave. So we should not encourage that at all. I think it's different than here.
Prabhupāda: No, their attention should be in chanting. And produce their own food, agriculture. And as soon as they get English education, then... Not "as soon as," but not all of them are fit for being educated. It is not possible. They are śūdra class of men. What he will be educated? Śūdra, vaiśya, they should learn how to plow, how to produce food. They are thinking otherwise, that "Plowing is great labor. If we educate our boys in English, they can go to the city. Immediately they get some..."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Get more money, work less."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Actually it is not the position, but they're thinking like that. Everyone wants to work less and get more money. That is Marshall's theory of economic impetus. From Germany also there is a bad report.
Prabhupāda: The paddy has to be cooked, once boiled and fried, er, mean dried, again cooked, again dried. Then you take out the skin and mix with little salt and half baked, and then put into the hot sand. Oh, it will do... Little laboring.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We cannot grow rice in America.
Prabhupāda: Oh. There is no paddy?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Only place I know is down in Mississippi farm. They are trying to.
Prabhupāda: They can grow. There is no difficulty.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, that's their whole consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The money is earned with so hard labor and it is spent for vagina-looking.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Polished dog society.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, dog also smells the vagina, and they also do the same thing. Therefore nature has arranged that dog are smelling vagina on the street. One vagina and three dozen dogs surrounded.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Vṛndāvana you see that.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yajñād bhavati... Why you should go three hundred miles away from your home, hanging in the daily grinding, risking life? So much labor? It is not required.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: More like an ass than a human being.
Prabhupāda: This is civilization? Swarms of men, church-haters. In the morning they are coming, just like swarms of ants. Is that right?
Hari-śauri: Then in the evening again rushing home.
Prabhupāda: Again going to the pigeonhole. And whole night sex, and then morning go. This is their home. And for this purpose, big, big arrangement of railway lines, this, that. Automobiles and buses and whoosh, whoosh. Unnecessary things. It is a life of great struggle.
Hari-śauri: A death sentence with hard labor.
Prabhupāda: Try to understand the philosophy more and more. Read Bhagavad-gītā and Bhāgavata. And to your best capacity try to learn. Then you will get power more and more.
Prabhupāda: Now you try to manage the whole world organization and all GBC men. Suppose I am not there. Manage very nicely. Independently. Not to create havoc. But really to manage. I am still present; I will give you direction. Don't spoil it. We are in very good, prestigious position. That is sure. Don't spoil it. So much hard labor. I started with very humble condition. Now it has come to this, such exalted position. You don't spoil it. That is my request. Increase. That will depend on your character, behavior, preaching. Everyone knows. Everyone is astonished. Without any help, I started. Only asset was sincere... Everyone knows it. Otherwise how it is possible?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is our duty as your disciples to preserve everything that you've done. (someone brings in some prasādam—some Hindi conversation)
Prabhupāda: Nim is good.
Prabhupāda: That is...
Girirāja: That is meant to apply everywhere in the society.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. This is exploitation of the society.
Girirāja: I know. Since I've been preaching more, I've been able to see how much labor and endeavor is going in just to maintain so many idle people. I know you've been saying this for a long time, and now, you know, I feel the strength to actually change that, that only those who are really sincere workers can stay.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise no need. We need their service, but not by being salaried. That is not good. (end)
Prabhupāda: That do.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...intellectually dishonest, try to propagate a false knowledge in the name of scientific knowledge.
Prabhupāda: That moon hoax.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just like this man, Crick, is the Nobel Prize winner. He's from Cambridge, a very famous man at this time. He says, "Once we accept that we come from chemicals, then we have a whole new culture which is..." He doesn't say what that culture is. He says, "We'll have a whole new culture, and everything will be so easy." And that culture... We spelled out that that culture is meaninglessness and voidism.
Prabhupāda: Only useless labor.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. (long pause) (end)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is apa...? Prabhupāda: Varga. It is pa-varga. There are five vargas, ka-varga, ca-varga, and the pa-varga. Very scientific. A-pa-varga. And that is the meaning. But these rascals, they have taken to increase the pa-varga, that śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). The basic principle of dharma is wrong. Dharma is meant for stopping this pa-varga. And they are increasing this pa-varga.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kāmasya nendriya-prītir lābho jīveta... (SB 1.2.10).
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kāmasya, sense gratification, required, but not for sense gratification's sake. It requires only for living comfortably. You try to make the economic development, that is all right. But they have taken simply for sense gratification. "I have got one car, and there must be another three cars for my children and wife." This is going on, kāma, increasing. Economic development... You require some occupational duty for earning your livelihood... That is allowed. But why more and more, more, more, more? For that, they are making scientific research how to satisfy senses. So kāmasya na indriya-prītiḥ. You require some sense gratification not for the senses, but because you have got a bad bargain, this body, just to maintain it, not more than. That is varṇāśrama-dharma. So there are so many problems we have created. They do not understand. And this civilization are simply gratifying senses, so dangerous. And dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). And they create a position by very, very hard labor, and the body is changed. Then śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). What benefit you get? This life, you make a skyscraper building, three dozen cars, and next life, you become a dog. Then what is your profit? What do you gain? They do not gain anything. So that change of body is in nature's hand. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). That is not in your hand. When the body will change, you cannot say, "No, no, I'll not change," because that is not under your dictation. So is not simply waste of time?
Prabhupāda: ...man and woman happy, and in happiness, in peace of mind, make progress, spiritual life. That is the Vedic civilization. The guide is there, brāhmaṇa. The protection is there, kṣatriya. The food is there, vaiśya. And labor is there, śūdra. Combine together, live very happily, peacefully, in the society. You'll find still. The aim is how to realize God. Village to village, you'll find temples.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I saw when going to the bank yesterday. We passed through the bhangi colony, but there was a temple there. They have their temple, even the bhangis.
Prabhupāda: In our childhood we have seen. The bhangis, they carry stool, walk in the morning with stool, so neat and clean. And if you go to the house, you cannot understand that this is a bhangi's house. So neat and clean. And bathing their utensils, their sitting place. After taking thorough bath, sometimes they are worshiping Deity.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow!
Prabhupāda: Still you'll find.
Prabhupāda: I went to... You know. So in what way I went? With a tin box and some literature. And how I have come back? You rascal, you have no eyes to see. You have seen how I went and how I came back. This is practical. I worked for this. I labored for it. It all depends on one's capacity. Otherwise immediately I'll give you charge. You cannot do here anything. So you'll get this letter. That's assurance. (Bengali) Keep it as document. That's all. I'll stamp it. All right, I shall meet again with you. Give him that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda takes his massage now. (break)
Prabhupāda: I have heard that still he is keeping, "I am devotee of Kṛṣṇa," still, in this fallen condition. How (indistinct). Take this. (break) Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice. It is great ocean of such glory. Tad-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta-magna-cittaḥ.
Prabhupāda: That's what I... Similarly, weaver, that cloth weaving, "kat, kat." The wife is spinning, her husband is weaving, the children is weaving, and combinedly at the end of the day there is a cloth. And people were satisfied with simple necessities. They would not charge very much for the labor. And one nice cloth requires half a pound cotton. Half a pound cotton means maybe one rupee. Another one rupee for the labor. So now they are paying twenty to thirty rupees. Unnecessarily he has to earn this money and pay to the millionaires, and he will keep three dozen motorcars, so another man will be engaged in motorcar industry. In this way time is being wasted without any search after spiritual realization. Time is wasted in such so-called technology advancement. And the real purpose of life, jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā, that is missing. And when you present that "This is the most important business of life," they say, "It is brainwashing." And they fight to check us, Communists and others, that "It is useless, God consciousness."
Prabhaviṣṇu: Yes. Then we can export the books also into West Bengal.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In this way organize these two places with the courage of an Englishman and the heart of a Bengali mother. And we should ventilate in the papers that this Indian investment of American money is not American money. It is my money. I have written books, laboring whole night. The American boys have cooperated with me by printing, by distributing, and the money was received by selling the books. So the books are mine. I have given to the society. So I have done business, regular, in foreign countries. I have earned money and spending the same money in my country. It is not American money. It is my money. I have done business. That's all. It is a credit for Indian son so to do such tremendous business and bring money for investing in his own country, from the national point of view... Why the...? The Americans are not claiming that this is their money. They are my disciples; they are cooperating with me. Actually it is a business. I have done business, I have earned money and brought it at home to spend. Everyone does. They should not misunderstand that I have stolen money from America and brought it. It is fair business. That's all. Ventilate this. They are under impression that the American government is supplying, the World Bank is supplying. Nobody is supplying. I am earning money by business, by my hard labor. Hm?
Devotee: Yes. That is fact.
Prabhaviṣṇu: It is very important to make this known to everyone.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Money belongs to Bhaktivedanta Swami by hard labor. We are his disciples. We are helping. It is mutual cooperation. Actually I do not like to take.
Bhakti-caru: (Bengali)
Prabhupāda: What do you think? Should I take?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is that kavirāja medicine?
Bhakti-caru: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I don't see how it is having so much effect.
Prabhupāda: No effect.
| Page Title: | Labor (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur |
| Created: | 10 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=189, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 189 |