Prabhupāda: They have no, I mean to say, information. There are so many departments in universities, technological, medical, engineering, but where is the department to know or understand what is this life, what is God, what is our relationship? So this is not very good civilization. So there is life after this life. Just like progressive life, a child is progressing to youthhood, the youth is aspiring to become a big man, important man. As in this life there is progressive life, similarly, life after life, there is also progress. There are different grades of life. So we get information from authoritative books that there are 8,400,000's of different grades of life, and there are 900,000's of aquatic life, two million species of plants and trees, about eleven hundred thousand species of life of birds, three million types of species of beast, and 400,000 species of this human body. Out of that 400,000's, different kinds of human bodies, the civilized body is a great boon. At that time we can make further progress. Either we can transfer to other planets... The standard of living, comforts, are many, many thousands times better than this planet. But in this book, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, we get information that within this material universe, wherever you go, either you remain in this planet or you go to the moon planet or to the sun planet, or there are millions and trillions of planets...
Kind of body (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"kind of a body"
|"kind of bodies"
|"kind of body"
|"kind of different body"
|"kind of gross body"
|"kind of material body"
|"kind of next body"
|"kinds of bodies"
|"kinds of body"
|"kinds of external body"
|"kinds of human bodies"
|"kinds of material bodies"
|"kinds of spiritual bodies"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: If you know driving, that's all right. But don't take... My Guru Mahārāja explained that you haven't got to learn anything extra for Kṛṣṇa's service. Whatever you know, you just apply it... Then you become successful. Because our time is very short. We do not know when I am going to die. As soon as I am out of this body, I am completely under the grip of nature, and I do not know what kind of body I am getting next. Of course, Kṛṣṇa assures that His devotee will never be vanquished. He will get good body. But I do not know what kind of body I am going to... Therefore before finishing this body I will have to develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness very nicely. That is my success. Śabdhvā sudurlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte. After many, many of evolutionary process, I have got this nice human form of body in America or India, in civilized nation, or rich family, I have no economic problem. That's all right. So it is to be understood they are simply wasting. Oh, how miserable it is. They get the opportunity, and they are simply wasting for sense gratification just like cats and dogs.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Not even human life, even animal life. There are 8,400,000s of different kinds of bodies. So this is a problem for everyone. Now in other species of life than the human form, they cannot solve. They have no power. But a human being can solve.
Guest (1): Yes, they have got understanding.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And that solution is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Guest (1): What do you mean by that?
Prabhupāda: That is a detailed question, "How it can be?"
Guest (1): No, but are we satisfied with the past...
Prabhupāda: You will be never satisfied without Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Guest (1): What I mean was it really or were we at that time...?
Prabhupāda: Which time? What do you mean "that time"?
Prabhupāda: They're simply trying to, unnecessary wasting time for bodily comforts. "Oh, you are so comfortable. Let me try." Huh? "I shall try also." So Prahlāda Maharaja says, "No, don't waste your time like that. Your time is very valuable."
So that was Vedic civilization. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, everyone is expert, but every is engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no bodily barrier. No. "Because I have got a particular type of body, therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness is forbidden for me." No, that is not. In any body, any circumstances, you can cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But not material. But people, they do not know. They think that "Kṛṣṇa consciousness there is no need, but let me improve my bodily comfort." This is called illusion. He cannot improve, even by an inch, the burden, but still... But you can improve, or you can purify, your consciousness. That is open to you, oh, irrespective of bodily (indistinct). And that is actually happening. You have got a different body from the before. (indistinct) But everyone, your taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Kṛṣṇa says, "It doesn't matter what kind of body you have got-low born, or high born, or this born or that born.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: The whole human life is meant for purifying. Śuddhyed sattva. Sattva means existence. So if you don't purify your existence, then you'll have to change your body, from this body to that. Sometimes it may be higher, sometimes lower. Just like, if you don't cure your disease, it can take turn in so many ways to put you into trouble. Similarly, if you don't purify your existence, then you'll have to transmigrate from one body to another. And there is no guarantee what kind of body you'll get. Very subtle laws of nature. Now there is no guarantee that you will get a very comfortable body or American body, no. Therefore for human being it is essential that he should purify his existence. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ śuddhyed yasmād brahma-saukhyaṁ tv anantam (SB 5.5.1). Unless you purify your existence, you're hankering after happiness, you cannot get continued happiness. That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is not the question of "the Chinese are eating, I am not eating." It is a question that how many number of different types of body I got. It is not that I am talking of Chinaman eating man or dog. I may be in this form, next life. So, therefore, the problem is how to stop this transmigration of the soul. That is the problem. Not that because the Chinese man eats something else other than I eat, that does not mean that I am very much... (break) Therefore, we have to prepare ourself what kind of body we are going to have next. That is human civilization. But they do not believe in the transmigration of the soul. They do not believe in God. They do not believe in anything. Simply just like animals. This life—eating, sleeping, mating—do it to your best capacity. That is Kali-yuga. They have no knowledge, neither they are interested to know. Mandāḥ. And even they become little interested of spiritual..., a hodgepodge, no clear idea. Mandāḥ sumanda matayo (SB 1.1.10).
Prabhupāda: It is not the question of belief. It is a fact. You have to accept another body after this body, just like you have already accepted. Your childhood body was there, and that is gone. You accepted another body. Similarly, now you have got another body. A few years after, you will get another body. So you are accepting bodies one after another. That is a fact. So you have to accept another body after this. So what kind of body I am going to get? Is this not the point of consideration? But there is no education on this point. But that's a fact. We have accepted already so many bodies. And natural conclusion is that I must accept another body. But what kind of body. Now you can select. There are 8,400,000 forms of body. So these questions are not discussed at all, but they are very important factors. That is philosophy. But modern civilization they neglect: "I don't mind what kind of body I shall get next life."
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. So the article is nice. So one thing is that we are simply interested for a temporary object, but we are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). We do not die. We simply change bodies. Just like these children, they are changing bodies from babyhood to childhood, from childhood to youthhood, the changing bodies. The final change is called death. That means, final change means, giving up this body, we accept again another babyhood body, again begin. This is going on. And this is called māyār bośe, jāccho bhese. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). We are being washed away by the waves of māyā. We are forced to accept a certain type of body, again give it up, again forced to, under 8,400,000 species of life. We do not know, next life what kind of body we are going to get. People should be careful about this. But they are simply interested with this short duration of life, say fifty years or hundred years.
Prabhupāda: Now, you are very intelligent boy. You can try to understand this philosophy. It is very important. And try to preach. For sense gratification people are wasting so much time, but they do not..., they're not responsible what is going to happen next life. But there is next life. Foolish people, they are ignorant, but there is next life, and this life is preparation for next life. That they do not know. The modern education, universities, they're completely in darkness about this simple knowledge. We are changing body every moment—that's a medical science—and after changing this body, we'll have to accept another body. How we are going to accept that body, what kind of body, this can be also known. Just like one is being educated, when he passes his examination, one can understand that he's going to be engineer or a medical practitioner. Similarly, in this life you can prepare yourself to become something next life.
Prabhupāda: It is a fact. Just like this child is transmigrating from one body, one kind of body to another body. So in the same way, when I give up this body I transmigrate to another body. This is the science. Unfortunately, there is no university, no education, no culture of this great science. Therefore according to Bhāgavatam, the knowledge is imperfect. The knowledge which are imparting from universities, they are not perfect knowledge. And this human form of body is the opportunity to understand the position of the soul and how he is transmigrating from one body to another, what is happening next. In this way, in this human form of body, we can understand this science, science of soul. Unfortunately, no education is there to understand this science. So in other words, it may be taken that the modern civilization is killing the prerogative of the human being. He has got a chance to understand himself and to stop. He can stop this repetition of birth and death. He can remain in a spiritual form in the spiritual kingdom or with God, but these things are unknown to him, because there is no discussion in any university or any institution of knowledge.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Now, here is the indication that after death we have to accept another body. Is it not?
Scholar: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Now, what kind of body you are going to accept? There are 8,400,000 varieties of bodies. Is it not? Do you know that?
Scholar: No, we don't know that. (indistinct) varieties of bodies.
Prabhupāda: There are forms of body in the water, in the land, so many trees, plants and there are so many insects, reptiles. Then birds, then there are beasts, then there are human being. So there are 8,400,000 forms of body. Here it is indicated that after giving up this body, the soul is going to accept another body. Now the human civilization, is it not duty of the human society to know what kind of body I am going to accept?
Prabhupāda: So then they must know what is karma-phala. This is a fact. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). But they are..., do not know how to execute karma. They're doing all kinds of sinful activities. So, suppose after this body, on account of my sinful activities, I am going to become a rat or cat or snake or a tree, then what is the use of my so much, how you'd say, jumping over nationalism and this ism and that. If by nature I am going to accept next life the body of a cat and dog, or a tree, then what is the meaning of my, this so-called nationality at the present moment? Is it not the duty of the guardians who are taking care of the people or their son, to educate human being in such a way that they can get better body? What is that education? You are darkness, nobody knows what kind of body he's going to accept next life.
Scholar: At least we can start from living moral life.
Scholar: Well I think we have to start from... We give a child educations and then gṛhastha, and vānaprastha,...
Prabhupāda: That is all right, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, that is a, different stages. But the real education is that you have to die. You have to accept another body. What kind of body you are going to accept? If you do not know that what is this meaning of gṛhastha, and vānaprastha, and sannyāsa? It is all rascal. If you do not... You miss this real point, then what is the meaning of this? There's no meaning. Simply by dressing in white cloth one becomes gṛhastha? And simply by dressing one, in this saffron cloth, he becomes sannyāsī? By changing dress he becomes everything? He must know, that what is the aim of life. Everyone should know what is the ultimate of life.
Scholar: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And they're acting actually as brāhmaṇa. There are many Mohammedans also. You came from Mohammedan. So it is the process of presenting the perfect educational system. Then everyone will accept. Any intelligent man will accept. It is a science. So you have to push this scientific movement throughout the whole world. That is our program. It is not a so-called Hindu cult or a Indian cult. No. It is science to be accepted by everyone if he at all wants to, I mean to say, purify or make his life perfect. Otherwise, he's in darkness. He does not know what he's going to accept another body. He has to accept another body, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). It does not say that this kind of body, dehāntaram, another body. Not..., it is up to you to select what kind of body I am going to accept. I am going to become a cat or dog or a demigod or a big man or a... They do not know yet. This science is unknown to the whole world. We are trying to push on this scientific movement. This is our position. So if you want to cooperate with this scientific movement, then we are prepared. But if you have some other idea, that is different thing. But if we take it seriously as a scientific movement, then we are prepared to cooperate. And if (you) should do, simply formality will not help us.
Prabhupāda: But that means that is not... Originally, it is from life. Seed is from the life. So where is your proof that matter produces life? Then you have to accept: life produces life. According to our śāstra, within the semina of the father, the living body, living entity, takes shelter. And it is injected to the mother's womb and the two matters mixes and the body forms. This is our śāstric explanation. Not that the semina discharged by the father, that is life. No. Within that semina, the living entity takes shelter. And it is put into favorable condition. Then it develops the body. This is... We, we find in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. That putting of the living entity in a particular type of semina depends on higher authorities. The higher authorities will judge what kind of body this living entity, after leaving this body, will get. So by higher authority it will be directed to enter into the semina of such father, and it will be injected into the womb of the mother. Then you'll get, develop a particular type of body and come out and suffer or enjoy. This is the process.
Prabhupāda: Utilize His mercy. Then your life is perfect. He is ready to help you, from within and from without. Kṛṣṇa is so kind. The kindness, the mercifulness of Kṛṣṇa, nobody can repay. In every birth, He is with me, canvassing: "Why you are acting whimsically? Just turn towards Me." Therefore He's going along with the living entity in every kind of body, either as demigod's body or hog's body, still, Kṛṣṇa is there. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭhaḥ (BG 15.15). (pause) Give him some prasāda.
Śyāmasundara: They said it would be coming any moment.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Śyāmasundara: They're bringing some prasāda.
Prabhupāda: Is there any other paper? No, it is a very impressive picture.
David Wynne: It's wonderful.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles.) Yes. So this education is wanting. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). As soon as one understands that "I'll have to change my, this body; then what kind of body I'm going to get next life." That next inquiry will be. Then he is intelligent. Then he is intelligent. Just like one man is working somewhere. Now, notice is given that "From such and such date, your work will not be required." Then you become anxious to know: "Then what shall I do next." I have to work. So similarly, if a person understands that he's going to change this body... Just like I'm an old man. I'll have to change in, say, immediately, or say five years, ten years. But the notice is already there because I am old man. So it is my duty to think: "Then what body I'm going to take next?" That is intelligence. And we have to prepare for that. So that is also described in the Bhagavad-gītā: yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25).
Prabhupāda: Read the purport.
Pradyumna: "The Lord has spoken about the peculiarity of His birth. Although He may appear like an ordinary person, He remembers everything of His many, many past births, whereas a common man cannot remember what he has done even a few hours before. If someone is asked what he did exactly at the same time one day earlier, it would be very difficult for a common man to answer immediately. He would surely have to dredge his memory to recall what he was doing exactly at the same time one day before. And yet, men often dare claim to be God, or Kṛṣṇa. One should not be misled by such meaningless claims. Then again, the Lord explains His prakṛti, or His form. Prakṛti means nature, as well as svarūpa, or one's own form. The Lord says that He appears in His own body. He does not change His body as the common living entity changes from one body to another. The conditioned soul may have one kind of body in the present birth, but yet a different body in the next birth.
Prabhupāda: So work is required. But godly persons, they want to live a simple life and high thinking, save time for understanding of God. The demonic people, they are engaged in horrible activities. They have manufactured so many things. So in this way... There are so many descriptions. Actually, by the increase of demoniac people, people are not very happy, and they are missing the ultimate goal of life. That is the defect of the modern civilization. They do not believe that there is an ultimate goal of life, there is life after death, and what kind of body he's going to get next. These things are not, neither in the university education curriculum, neither people are interested. So at the present moment... This is called Kali-yuga. So people are being misled. Actually, the human being, the form of human life, is distinct from animal life. So if we live like animals, then we are missing the chance. At the present moment, this is the position.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Now it has come to another platform. So anyway, the knights, they are respectable gentlemen of the society, leading men of the society. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for enlightening people to the right standard of understanding the goal of life. Because after this life, after this body is annihilated, we do not know what kind of body we are getting next. We must prepare. Just like you are elevated to the position of lordship. So you had to prepare yourself. Not that this lordship is offered to anyone and everyone. One who is qualified, he is offered this position. Similarly, we should know how we are becoming qualified for the next life. But that education is lacking. There is no such education. In the university or anywhere, nobody thinks, "What we are going to become next life?" But we should be prepared. If, after becoming Prime Minister in this life, or President, like Mr. Nixon, and again, by his activities, he's going to be another animal, oh, that is not very successful proposal. But there is such chance.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, we should know how we are becoming qualified for the next life. But that education is lacking. There is no such education. In the university or anywhere, nobody thinks, "What we are going to become next life?" But we should be prepared. If, after becoming Prime Minister in this life, or President, like Mr. Nixon, and again, by his activities, he's going to be another animal, oh, that is not very successful proposal. But there is such chance. Because after death, after giving up this body, we are completely under the grip of material nature.
- prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
- guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
- ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā
- kartāham iti manyate
- (BG 3.27)
Find out this verse. Prakṛti, nature, will offer the body, and there are so many varieties of body. So one should know at least, what kind of body I'm going to get next. That is intelligence. And if he remains in the darkness, and if he becomes other than human being, that is not very good proposal. They should know. What is that? Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni...?
Prabhupāda: No... Yes, one has to think, one has to consider. But this is the fact, that I have changed so many bodies, I remember them, but the bodies are not existing, I am existing. This is very simple philosophy. And it is stated, confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā, and it is accepted by all the ācāryas, learned scholars. So there is change of body or transferring from one body to another. That's a fact. Under the circumstances, we should consider what kind of body will be nice next. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.
- yānti deva-vratā devān
- pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ
- bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā
- yānti mad-yājino 'pi mām
- (BG 9.25)
Just like people are trying to go to the moon planet. So if you prepare yourself, you haven't got to take a machine and go to the moon planet. You can go to the moon planet. That is stated in the śāstras. You can prepare yourself. That means transfer your, yourself to a body in the moon planet. You transfer yourself for a body in the sun planet. So there are innumerable planets.
Prabhupāda: Because there are eight million, four hundred thousand forms of life. The trees are also life, the cats and dogs, they are also life. And there are higher, intelligent persons in the higher planetary systems. They are also life. The worm in the stool, that is also life. So, calculating all of them, there are 8,400,000 species of life. So if I am going to have next life... Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to change this body to another body. So our concern should be "What kind of body I am going to get next?"
Mother: I agree for some people to, you especially, to think of this because you are a leader of your Vedic religion. But for everybody to do that, where would we be? We couldn't all sit down and think all the time.
Prabhupāda: But where is that education?
Prabhupāda: So...
Jesuit Priest: ...looked after me, I wouldn't be here this afternoon.
Prabhupāda: So next life, how it will be ascertained? What kind of body I am going to next life?
Jesuit Priest: I don't think it matters very much. I couldn't care less what's happening after I'm dead. All I know, there's not annihilation. I'm going to be joined with almighty God.
Prabhupāda: No, it cannot be blind.
Mother: We're going to almighty God. That's all.
Jesuit Priest: Not that I want another life.
Prabhupāda: Suffering another way. Nobody is, is free from suffering. I have already explained. There are three kinds of suffering. So who is free from this suffering? You may not be suffering from any bodily disease, but you may be suffering from mental agony. You may not be suffering from mental agony, but you may suffer, suffering imposed by others. There are so many suffering. This place is suffering. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam. This place is for suffering. Duḥkhālayam. Duhkha means suffering, alayam means place. Asasvatam. And still you cannot make adjustment. You, if you say "All right, let there be a little suffering. Let me stay here," that also will not be allowed. You will be kicked out: "Get out!" Then you have to accept another body. You do not know what kind of body. So these things are there. Don't think that a little happy life for ten years or twenty years is the solution of your problem. That is not solution. Real solution is different. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā,
Prabhupāda: So I have got a different body now. So where is the difficulty to under-stand that when this body is also finished I get another body? Where is the difficulty? And Bhagavad-gītā says, tathā dehāntaraṁ prāptiḥ. As we are changing from one body to another, another, another, even within our experience, similarly, as soon as this body is finished, I get another body. Now I am working in this body as national, as Napoleon, as Gandhi, as you according to our own whims and ideas, and fighting in the UNESCO, everything, just like recently Pakistan representative, India... But as soon as the body is finished, just like Gandhi finished, Jinnah finished, now what kind of body he has got now? May not be Indian or Pakistani. Now in that body he is thinking according to his body, a dog is thinking according to the doggish body. A man is thinking according to the man's body. So thinking and everything is changed with the change of the body. Just like this child is. This child, she cannot concentrate because due to the body. Other gentlemen, ladies, they can concentrate.
Prabhupāda: The actual aim of life should be back to home, back to Godhead. Then this human form of life is successful. Just like your son. If he goes out independent. Now he is under father's protection, he is very happy. But if he declares his independence... Just like Śyāmasundara. He is very rich man's son. His father, I met him. His father is a big lawyer, big businessman. But he declared independence. And I know his life history, how much he had to go through so many tribulations. Similarly, we are also sons of God. We have declared independence and we are going through so many chapters of life and death in different... Now we have got... Suppose you have got now a nice Englishman's body but next body you do not know what kind of body you are going to get. That will depend on your karma and desire.
Graham Hill: (indistinct) what sort of body we have been in in the past?
Prabhupāda: That is, that is next question, that you have to accept next body, but what kind of body you'll have? That you can see, that there are so many varieties of life, body. You have to accept one of them. Just like when you were admitted into school for education. The idea was that you'll be educated, and according to your education, there are so many posts you'll have to occupy. Just like you are lawyer, he's medical man, somebody's engineer, somebody else, somebody... Varieties or field of activities. So according to the perfection of one's education, he has to accept one post like that. Similarly, next body means according to your karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). You are preparing your next Life. That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā:
Prabhupāda: That is our Vedic evidence. Whenever we speak something, immediately quote from Vedas. This is our process. If it is accepted by the Vedic process, then it is perfect. Just like in the law court. You are lawyer. You are arguing. When you quote from a judgement, previous judgement, it is accepted. Similarly, when you give authoritative statement support of your talking, then it is perfect. That is the way. Otherwise, what for these books are there? If it is mental speculation what is the use of these books? But as soon as we speak something, we immediately support by quoting from Vedic literature. And that is perfect. And now you have to possess little knowledge. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, how Kṛṣṇa is perfect. Kṛṣṇa is giving example side, by side. Yathā, dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Asmin dehe, as there is the soul, there is the soul, asmin dehe, and he's having different types of bodies, kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. He's changing body from childhood, boyhood, boyhood to youth-hood, youth-hood to another state. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Where is the illogical presentation? This is scientific. For an intelligent man, this is scientific. And if he's still dull-headed, then what can be done? Kṛṣṇa gives example. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. As the soul is changing body, from babyhood to childhood, childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youth-hood, like that. Similarly, after finishing this body, it may be invisible to you, but the subtle body is there. We have got two kinds of bodies.
Prabhupāda: That is a fact. That you cannot deny because it is said by Kṛṣṇa, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). That you cannot deny. He has accepted another body. What kind of body he has accepted... If you want to suggest, that is also given in the Bhagavad-gītā,
- ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā
- madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ
- jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā
- adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ
- (BG 14.18)
He was in tāmasic, so he has gone down to the animal kingdom. That's a fact in the Bhagavad-gītā. He has gone to the animal kingdom. Now he may be tiger or dog. That is a different thing. But he has gone to the animal kingdom. That is the verdict of Bhagavad-gītā.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: This example is given. Suppose we are walking. This step, when I assure that "This is all right, it is not, it will not go down," then I take up this. Then again this. This example is given. Similarly, change of body like that. As soon as it is settled up what kind of body he is going to accept or which is being offered to him, daiva-netreṇa, by higher authority, then this man leaves this body and again enters in the womb of the body which he is destined to get. This is the process of death.
Yadubara: Is that immediate, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Immediate. Just like immediate I am walking. When it is fixed up, then I take up. Then when it is fixed up, then I take up, like this. Immediately.
Yaśomatīnandana: What about hell? How does the jīva soul go to hell?
Prabhupāda: Let us see. (break) Just like children, they are given some facilities. They must work according to that plan. Otherwise sometimes there is slap, "Huh, why you are doing like that?" like that. (break) ...your country. Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrā-bhaumya idya-dhīḥ (SB 10.84.13). Bhaumya means bhūmi. Bhūmi, the land, idya-dhīḥ: "This is my duty: to serve my country, to serve my land." This is māyā. The rascal, he is engaged to "Do your duty to your country," and what is the country? Suppose if I do my duty and I may be driven away from my country next life, because there is no guarantee that I will have to take my birth... Just like one astrologer has explained that Jawaharlal Nehru has become a dog in Scandinavia. (laughs) There is chance. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You will have to change your body. Now, where it will be changed, how it will be changed, what kind of body you will get—that is not in your hands. That is not in your hands. You cannot say, "Oh, I am Prime Minister. I must get such and such body." That is not going to be accepted. But these foolish rascal people, they do not understand it. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). I am acting under certain infection. So I am infecting, say, some venereal disease. So I must suffer for it.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...devotees, they do not want any opulence of this material world. They are, what is called, pessimistic. They do not give any value to the opulence of this material world. And it is very good philosophy. But fools and rascals, they are attracted. Now, these buildings were constructed, very highly intellectual men undoubtedly, but they enjoyed, say, for hundred years. That's all. Then their bodies changed, and nobody knows what kind of body he has got. This is materialism. Suppose if you are offered some very nice comfortable life, and if you know that "Next life I am going to become a dog," would you be happy? But they have no information that what next body... Body, he has to take another body. He cannot enjoy. Whatever he has created, he cannot enjoy for good. That is not possible. He has to leave it. Just like these Romans. They have left.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing, why man is suffering. First of all... Just like we have to find out the disease, why he is suffering, and if the disease is cured, the suffering is cured. (French) (aside:) Why the others, they do not come? Why is that? What kind of GBC?
Yogeśvara: Because there's an old Buddhist saying that no matter what kind of body you have, whether it be made of feathers or flesh or whatever kind of body you have, the problem is how to get out of it.
Pṛthu Putra: (correcting Yogeśvara's translation) No, it's not question of body. If you receive an arrows. You have to translate clearly. If you receive an arrows, it doesn't matter if the arrow is made with wood, with iron, with anything. But just to take out the arrows of your body because that's the cause of suffering.
Prabhupāda: Why the GBC men are not interested in these talks?
Yogeśvara: Last night, at the conference hall, this lady heard your lecture about how the soul reincarnates in different kinds of bodies. So she wants to know how is this possible because in the West, our understanding is that the animal forms do not possess a soul.
Prabhupāda: How does..., she can prove that she does not, it does not possess a soul.
Pṛthu Putra: She just doesn't understand. She does not say that. She does not understand.
Prabhupāda: No. She admits man has got soul, and animal has not soul.
Yogeśvara: See, what she says this is the traditional western idea.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So long you have a material body, you must suffer. Just like in prisonhouse. When the criminals are put there, they are punished different way according to the criminal offense, similarly, you are, we are all criminals, and for different types of suffering we have got different types of body. Different types of body means different types of suffering. Just like this tree is punished, "Stand here for three hundred years." This is punishment. Just like we do, "Stand up on the bench!" Children. So any kind of material body, even Lord Brahmā, that is suffering, different types of suffering. That's all. And if you want to be free from the suffering, then get out of this material body. This is... Kṛṣṇa says that this is a place for suffering. Where does He say?
Satsvarūpa: Ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ: (BG 8.16) "From the highest planet down to the lowest, all are places of suffering where birth and death take place."
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is... He died with that mentality. It is there. Just like we go to sleep, but all your mental activities are reserved. In the morning again you begin.
Mādhava: Prabhupāda, you say that the living entity, he is thinking about a particular kind of body and a particular activity...
Prabhupāda: Not particular body—particular desire. And according to the desire, Kṛṣṇa is giving him facility through the material machine to give him a particular type of body. Just like one man is thinking of eating anything nonsense. So Kṛṣṇa says that "You give him this body of hog. He can eat even stool." That's all. You want to be naked, nudie? So Kṛṣṇa gives him, "So he is very much anxious to become nudie. Make him a tree. Stand up for five thousand years naked." This is going on.
Mādhava: If I desire...
Prabhupāda: So why don't you know yourself? Why you are in darkness? Kṛṣṇa says everything in the Bhagavad-gītā. In the beginning He says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam (BG 2.13). In this body there is the occupier of the body. So if you think yourself that you are this body, that is your wrong. You try to understand that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul, ahaṁ brahmāsmi." That's the fact. So this human life is meant for that purpose. So why should you not do it? Why should you keep yourself in darkness? That is very risky. If I keep myself in the darkness like cats and dogs, that "I am this body," then my life is very risky. By nature's way we are given this opportunity, human form of life. If we do not understand our position, if we remain in the same category, bodily concept of life, then we are missing the chance. After all, you have to change this body. It is not permanent settlement that you shall remain Indian, you shall remain American. No. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to change. Now what kind of body you are going to get, that you have to understand. That is responsibility. So this child, this boy, if he remains in darkness that he will continue this childhood body, and father, mother will take care of him—"I don't require to take any education"—then future life, when he will be young man, he will be not nicely posted for want of education. Then how miserable it will be. Similarly, if we don't take care of this education that "I am not this body, my future body will be different, and if I do not know what kind of different body I'll have to accept..."
Prabhupāda: Not renouncing, not renouncing. Just like our (?) think of future, that is also for present benefit. Future, future... The best intelligence is that just like one is afraid of suffering in old age, future. So there is. That is not ignorance. That is future life. So karmīs are thinking future life should be very comfortable. They want to go to the heavenly planets. They therefore act very piously, perform yajñas. That is all future. So real problem is that we are going to get another body in future. So what kind of body we shall get? That is intelligence. Body you have to get. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So one should be very intelligent—"What kind of body I am going to get?"
Brahmānanda: Why can't we have sense gratification and God also at the same time?
Prabhupāda: The simple truth. But people have no education. That is the defect of the modern civilization. This is the fact, that you are accepting every moment a different body. So after death, you will have to accept another body. Now, we should know, "What kind of body I am going to accept next?" That is intelligence. That is civilization.
Justin Murphy: Do you mean that the, that that, then, will allow me, if I come to that realization, that that will allow me to then continue to improve my mind, continue to study, to think, to gain knowledge...
Prabhupāda: As far... Yes.
Justin Murphy: ...beyond say the normal sixty-five or seventy years that I might live in what I imagine to be this body?
Prabhupāda: Just like a child gets another body, boyhood. The boy gets another body, youth. The youth gets another body, old man. Similarly when this body is not useful then he gets another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), as we experience dehāntara, different types of body, we are getting one after another, similarly the soul is immortal, he'll get another body. Now here it is not mentioned what kind of body, "another body." The "another body" means, there are 8,400,000 different types of body so he can enter any one of them according to his karma. That will be selected by higher authorities. Just like I do not know here, in India, in New Delhi, the Indian government, they give, I mean to say, house, accommodation to the government servant. So there are different types of houses, for minister one type of house, for secretaries for one type of house, for the clerks one type of house. So according to the position, one type of house is offered. So our, we are acting here according to our resultant action of the activities we get next birth.
Prabhupāda: The risk of degradation. Now I have got human form of body, I may degrade to animal. Because transmigration of the soul. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, tathā dehāntara prāptir, after death one gets another body. Now, what kind of body, that depends on his work. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ (BG 14.18). If he has done very nicely, in goodness, then he will be promoted to the higher planetary system. And if he has not done anything nice then he will remain here or he will be degraded to the lower planetary system.
Prof. Hopkins: That is... How does that relate to the question of studying the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam?
Prabhupāda: Yes. You get material profit. (break) Bhagavad-gītā it is said, (sic:) alpavat tu phalaṁ teṣām: "The result of material profit is for a short duration of time," tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām, "and these things are desired by less intelligent class of men." His real need is how to gain his spiritual life. That is his real need. But he does not want that. He wants some material profit for the time being. This is less intelligent. Suppose if somebody gives you some money and he says, "Tomorrow I shall take it away," will you... (laughs) So tad bhavaty alpa-medhasā. (break) ...kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajanty anya-devatāḥ: (BG 7.20) "They worship demigods, bewildered by lusty desires." And so long we have got lusty desires, we have to change our body, and that we do not know, what kind of body we are going to get next birth. Therefore, without knowing this, if we become mad after material profit, then less intelligent.
Indian man (1): Yogendra(?), you wanted to ask Swamiji a question?
Prabhupāda: Syphilis. In Ayur-Vedic it is called phairanga, means this disease is imported from Western countries. Every dog has syphilis, and they contaminate the woman, and that is distributed to man. According to Vedic civilization, dog is untouchable. Now in India also, to keep a dog is aristocracy. Yes. Especially the tail cut. Now half-cut tail, that is aristocratic dog. Now they are making dog show in New Delhi. (break) Adjust. Kleṣada asa deha. Material body means different ways of giving trouble. I have got one trouble. He has got one trouble. He has got another trouble. He has got another. But nobody is coming to the senses that it is troublesome. And troublesome, at the same time you'll not be allowed to continue. It has to be ended. Then another change of body, and what kind of body you are going to get? That you do not know.
Prabhupāda: Possess, you can possess. Tena tyaktena bhuñjithā (ISO 1). The real proposal is that everything belongs to God. Then God's representative, king, he gives you land. But you require for ten men's foodstuff. You calculate the ten men's foodstuff, for producing, you require so much land, so the king gives you land. You work and grow your food. And because it is God's property, you give some tax. Whatever you produce, twenty-five percent give to God or king, and balance, you enjoy. If there is no production—no tax. This is peaceful life. You work. You take land, God's land. You cannot... Why you have occupied so much land? Others, they are not allowed to enter; where there is overpopulation? How you can expect peace? Just like in China and India and other places they're overpopulation. Why don't you allow them, that "In Africa there is no sufficient population. Please come and toil and grow your food and live peacefully"? Where is that formula? Rascals, they are wanting peace. All rascal, rogues. And why they have become rascal, rogues? For want of God consciousness. They do not know that it is God's property, falsely thinking, "My property." And today I am thinking, "My property," and next day I become a dog on the same property. Hm? This dog loitering, who can say he was not formerly a Mr. Smuts? Who can say? Maybe he was Smuts; now he is dog. How can you take him? This is nature's process. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). After death you'll have to accept another body. Now who can guarantee that General Smuts did not accept a dog's body? Who can guarantee? Where is the science? You think that he is dead and gone, but Kṛṣṇa does not say like that. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Now what kind of body he has got?
Prabhupāda: No, he starts... According to the body he will work. If he enters into the dog's body, he will work as a dog. If he enters in the body of a tree, he will work as the tree: stand up naked without any shame; you cannot protest, your branches will be cut off. So these things are there. What do they know about this science? Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to take a different body. He does not say what kind of body. And you can see by practical experience. There are 8,400,000 different forms of body. You have to enter one of them. That's all. So what you can do? The nature will force you, "Enter this body." It may be a better body or it may be an abominable body, but you have to enter another body. Where is that education that "I'll have to enter another body after death, and let me prepare what kind of body I shall have"? Where is that education? They are blind.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The matter, material nature, is forced upon him. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). He is accepting different bodies according to the contamination of material nature. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. That he does not know. Ahāṅkara-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). He does not know that there is a superior karta, daiva netreṇa. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa jantu deha upapattaye (SB 3.31.1). So he is forced to accept a certain kind of body by the material nature. That he does not know. This is non-Aryan. Like dog. He does not know that why he has got this dog's body. He simply has learned how to bark, that's all.
Dr. Patel: (laughs) I have my doubts. How can we know that he is not knowing or knowing? It is our conjecture that he is not knowing.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: In the water, life there is; in the air, in.... That is another thing. But life is different from the water. That is our proposal. (break) They are attracted by these varieties of material things, and when time comes he's put into death. Everything is moved from his sight, aside, and he accepts a body of a dog. (break) To accept by compulsion a type of body according to his activities, that he does not.... Now, that big, big minister, Pandit Jawaharlal, he spent so much time and energy for creating this. Now, if after death he has become a dog, then where is the benefit? You cannot say that he has not become a dog. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). One has to accept another body, and what kind of body one has to accept, who will say? The.... His work, what he has done, that will take.
Prabhupāda: No, no, join or not join.... I mean to say that if I see that somebody has become dog next life, you cannot say not, he has not become a dog. You have no proof. (break) ...create a kingdom that you'll not be allowed to stay there in your kingdom, and by your action you have to accept another body. And what kind of body you are going to accept, you do not know. Therefore they deny next birth.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's just amazing, Śrīla Prabhupāda, how the eternal spirit soul can become so implicated in this material world.
Prabhupāda: Implicated by desires. We are desiring always, constantly. So the desire makes your next body. Every living entity in this material world is desiring how to enjoy. What is your question? Eh?
Prabhupāda: So you bark. Who will check that? Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā... (BG 7.14). māyā will take consideration, "What you have made yourself, a dog or god?" That she will take account. If you have made yourself a dog, "Just come on, become a dog." If you have made yourself as god, then "Come on, you'll be demigod." That is for everything. Otherwise why there are varieties? There is dog life and there is demigod life, Indra life. It is not one-sided. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), it is not one-sided. You have to change your body. And there are varieties of life, so it is up to you what kind of body you have got. You can change your body up to the point of becoming associate of Kṛṣṇa. Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām (BG 9.25). Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma... (BG 15.6). These informations are there. So if you have to prepare for the next life, why not go back to home, back to Godhead? Yad gatvā na nivartante. This is intelligent? Or to become modernized and become a dog next life? Which is intelligent? The śāstra says, "No, this is intelligent."
Prabhupāda: Yes. But if you are so foolish that it is okay to be dog, then it is very nice.
Hari-śauri: But if we live forever, then where's the harm in changing bodies a few times? We can enjoy in all different kinds of bodies and have a good time whilst we're here. And if we're eternal, then what is the big rush to get out?
Prabhupāda: That is going on. For the foolish person, it is going on. (break) ...land there is?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) ...farms all over the world, even in India, they have to irrigate the land.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They have to irrigate the land artificially like this. Either they dig a ditch and they pour water into the ditch by some method, or sprinkling like this. So in a society where everyone is God conscious, Kṛṣṇa says how He supplies the rain. Was there any need even for such irrigation?
Prabhupāda: Irrigation?
Prabhupāda: So dehāntara-prāptir, to accept another body, that is inevitable. Now, what kind of body you'll accept... You'll not accept. You'll be forced to accept, according to your work, karmaṇā daiva-netrena (SB 3.31.1), by superior arrangement. After death, after giving up this body... Generally, at the time of death, your mental condition will carry you to a similar body. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). This is the general, but it is under superior arrangement. So we are changing this body continually, cycle of birth and death. That is material world. Therefore it is said that according to the body, the standard of happiness, distress, is there. So that will come automatically by nature's law. Therefore there is no need of endeavoring improving or subduing this kind of bodily comforts. That you cannot change; it is all destiny. You try for self-realization. What you are? Why you are in this body? Why you are suffering? These questions should be discussed. That is human life.
Prabhupāda: They don't want to worship anyone. They want to worship their senses. That's all. Sense gratification. What is dictated by the senses, they agree to worship. Servant of the senses. In the material world nobody worships nobody. Everyone serves his own senses: "I like it." That's all. There is a Bengali song, yoke yadi lage phala kena dag botai(?). "If it satisfies my eyes, why shall I not see? I shall see." This is the sum-substance of... Yoke yadi lage phala kena dag bhajai.(?) Everyone wants sense gratification, to be servant of the senses. If the senses want "Do this," he will do it. And our movement is that we shall not hear the dictation of the senses; we shall do what Kṛṣṇa says. That is just opposite. So long I am carrying out the orders of the senses, then I am involved in this material birth, death, transmigration. Today I am running on this nice car. Next I can stand up here as a tree. Who can check it? After death you are completely under the... You are... Your life also completely under the laws of nature. So there is no discussion, no understanding, no knowledge about this. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to change our body. What kind of body we are going to get, nobody knows. This life is everything. This body is everything. Very risky. They do not inquire even wherefrom this body has come. They are also coming. They are also living. They are also eating. The trees, they are also eating water.
Prabhupāda: The same thing.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "On the tenth night it develops into a form like a plum, and after that, gradually it turns into a lump of flesh or an egg, as the case may be." Purport. "The body of the soul develops in four different ways according to its different sources. One kind of body, that of the trees and plants, sprouts from the earth; the second kind of body grows from perspiration, as with flies, germs and bugs; the third kind of body develops from eggs; and the fourth develops from an embryo. This verse indicates that after emulsification of the ovum and semina, the body gradually develops either into a lump of flesh or into an egg, as the case may be. In the case of birds it develops into an egg, and in the case of animals and human beings it develops into a lump of flesh."
Prabhupāda: Then? Next verse.
Prabhupāda: Venkateshvara? So by evolutionary process we come to this human form of life. It is a chance to understand the value of life, to understand God and our relationship with God, and if we are missing this opportunity, that's a great loss. Then you again become in another form of life. That is sure. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to change this body, and if we are not prepared, what kind of body we are going to get next life, then we remain like animals. The animal does not know. And human life, if you are missing this important point, that "I am going to change this body, and what kind of body I'm going to get?" if I do not know, then what is the difference between me and the animal?
Dr. Sharma: Perhaps you can comment on the fact that in the movement, the Kṛṣṇa people, not only the sannyāsīs, but also the common working man, his karma is karmaṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu kadācana. He also...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Common sense. And we are practically experiencing. When the child has grown to become a young man, the mother does not cry, "Oh, my child is gone." She knows, she knows that "Here is my child. Simply he has changed his body." So this is a fact, that we are changing bodies but we are eternal. This is the conclusion. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). So unless one is properly educated, where is the talk of advancing? So this is the beginning of spiritual education, to understand that the living entity is eternal and the body is changing. And then next question will be that if the body is changing, then this body will be changed, so after my death what kind of body I am going to accept? That is education. That is education. And if I remain blind, I do not care, and next life I become a dog, then what is the value of my present education? In spite of all education, next life I am going to become a dog or tree, then what is the value of my education?
Prabhupāda: This is a spiritual movement, and at the present moment people are more interested with material improvement, but our real interest is... Not only our, every human being's interest should be for spiritual upliftment. Just like our body is there, and within the body I am the spirit soul, also I am there. So we are taking care of the body but not of the spirit soul. So the nature's law is that a spirit soul, changing in different position of the body, as we experience in this life, from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, similarly, after giving up this body, we'll have to accept another body, and there are 8,400,000 different forms of body. We do not know what kind of body we are going to accept according to our activities and mentality. At the time of death the mentality will ascertain what kind of body we are going to get next. So these things are completely not discussed, neither they have any knowledge.
Prabhupāda: You believe or not believe. A fool man's, fool's belief is different from a learned man's understanding. So if he says that "I believe in it," nature's law is different. Nature will not care whether you believe or not believe. It will work. Just like if you have infected some disease, so you are getting fever. Now if I say "My dear Mr. such and such, now you infected smallpox. Therefore symptoms are there." And if you say, "No, no, I don't believe in it." So will you be protected from the laws of nature? So this is rascal's proposal, "I believe," "I don't believe." You believe or not believe, who cares for you? If you have infected, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). Find out. After death you are going to get another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So how you can know what kind of body you are going to get? First of all generally they don't believe transmigration. So they believe or not believe, the process is going on. So this is going on in the modern world, "I don't believe it."
Prabhupāda: Ah, incubation, no, another technical, yes, that after some time, the disease comes. There is a technical name. Anyway, so you cannot avoid it. If you have infected some disease, it will develop by nature's law. It is not possible to avoid it. Similarly, during our this life, we are in association with different modes of material nature, and that will decide what kind of body we are going to get next life. That is strictly under the laws of nature. Everything is under the laws of nature. You have no control over it; you are completely dependent, but people, on account of dull brain, they think that they are free. They are not free. They are imagining they are free. They're completely under the laws of nature. So this next birth will be decided according to my activities this life, sinful or pious, like that.
Mike Robinson: Your Grace, if we could perhaps go back over that just for a minute—you said nobody is free.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: He did not ask about the constitutional position of himself, he simply engaged himself in dog's place(?). Then whatever activities he has done, it is simply defeat. Next body what he's going to get he does not know. If you become a minister in this life and next life you become a dog, then what is the benefit? Can anyone challenge this? "No, no, I'm not going to become a dog." Nobody can say. You are going to change the body—tatha dehāntara prāptir—now what kind of body you'll get, that will depend on nature, not on yourself. If you go to a tailor's shop, so you have to pay for if you want a better garment. Similarly, what kind of body you will get, that will depend on your work. So in this life you may be a prime minister, but if you have worked like menial dogs and hogs, then you are going to get body of a dog and hog. That is nature's gift. You cannot check it. You have no hand on the administration of the nature. That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: Who is thinking that "What next body I'm going to accept?" Nobody's thinking. They say after finishing this body everything is finished. And Gītā says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Then what kind of paṇḍita he is? Bhagavad-gītā says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), nityam, na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. The soul is immortal. Antavanta ime dehāḥ: the śarīra is antavat, perishable. Nityasyoktāḥ śarīrinaḥ. Who is considering? If I am eternal, if I am not going to die even after the annihilation of the body, then the next question would be jijñāsuḥ. Then what will be my next position? What kind of body I am going to get? That is intelligent. But nobody has this intelligence, and he's passing as paṇḍita. Big, big professor, they'll say, "Swamiji, after death, everything is finished." I went to Moscow. There was a big professor, Kotovsky, Indology professor. So we had some talks. So he does not believe transmigration of the soul, and he's a learned scholar. And everywhere you find that. The same atheistic philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Nobody is interested to retire from family life. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). The difficulty is they do not know their own self-interest. Svārtha-gatim. Everyone says "My self-interest first." But he does not know what is his self-interest. Na te viduḥ. Actually that is the..., because he does not know self. (Hindi) Beginning of education in Bhagavad-gītā, self-interest. Kṛṣṇa giving first lesson: aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādān (BG 2.11). "You are talking like a very learned man, but your action is not like learned." Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. The subject matter, he was lamenting that "If I kill my brothers, my sister-in-laws will become widows and will become prostitute, and varṇa-saṅkara." "You are talking just like learned man, but on the basis of bodily relationship." So this is not the business of paṇḍita. Nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. So this is the position. People are unaware of self-interest. Simply on bodily concept of life they are working day and..., whole day and night. He does not know dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). His body will change and the soul will have to accept another body. He does not know what kind of body he's going to accept. (aside:) Ask him not to talk.
Prabhupāda: And he has called Padma-locana. Similarly, this harijana movement is a farce because they remain the Cāmāra and Bhangis, and still they are called harijana. The same thing. No locana, but padma-locana. Everyone has got right. You can become the most advanced devotee. There is no hindrance. But they must be trained up as harijana. Not that artificially you simply rubberstamp harijana. Therefore that movement is failure. We have no objection to make anyone... Kṛṣṇa says māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Pāpa-yoni, lower class. Janma-aiśvarya-śruta-śrī, these four things, to take birth in high class family, janma, aiśvarya, to become very rich, and śruta, to become very learned scholar, and śrī, beautiful, these four things are there whose background is pious life. Otherwise, not possible. Janmaiśvarya-śruta-śrī (SB 1.8.26). So those who are just the opposite—means not born in very high class family, not... They say "accident." No, it is not accident. According to śāstra, karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1), there is superior examination. Yamarāja is there. Now, this man is now dead, this soul is now changing body. What kind of body he'll get next? That is judged by the superior authority. Just like in the office a person is promoted.
Prabhupāda: This line, it is clear, that you have to change this body. Have you got any objection to take it?
Indian man (4): No.
Prabhupāda: Then why you are not serious, "What kind of body I am going to get?" Here is a body, tree. If you are going to accept a body like this, just how miserable it will be. Why you are not afraid? Just like if you want to go from here, Chandigarh, to Delhi, you have to arrange so many things. So what we are doing, that we have to change this body? And there are 8,400,000 different types of bodies. Which body I am going to get? Why we are not serious? We are spoiling our life.
Indian man (4):. That eight million, is that fixed thing, that...? So many life, so many animals species and genera... have become extinct.
Prabhupāda: 8,400,000 species.
Prabhupāda: It is not religion. I have already explained. Did you not mark that this is spiritual knowledge? You are combination of spirit and matter. The spirit I have already explained. And if you don't take care of the spirit portion then you are making suicide. You are losing the opportunity of your human life. It is essential. One should be cognizant of the spiritual necessity of life. Otherwise, you are losing the opportunity of this human form of life. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Then you remain as cats and dogs and there is risk, very risky life. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir. You do not know what kind of body you are going to get next life. It is essential. You must be prepared... (break) ...body, but you do not know what kind of body you are going to accept. That knowledge is lacking.
Interviewer: One question. You have priced these books very high comparatively for the poorer countries. Do you have any plans to reduce...
Who has seen actually Kṛṣṇa, go to him. But you are going to somebody who can manufacture gold. Because you are not concerned with Kṛṣṇa. You are concerned with gold. That is your motive. So you must be cheated. You want to be cheated. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). They do not know. Life's mission is how to achieve the platform where I can talk with Kṛṣṇa, I can talk with Lord. Where is that? Nobody knows that. They do not believe there is Kṛṣṇa, there is Lord, there is God and you can see Him, you can talk with Him. They do not believe. Mostly impersonalists. And impersonalists, they're all mostly atheists. So what they'll do by jugglery and this magic? This magic will be finished within twenty or thirty years. That will be finished. Show this magic that "No! No more death." That is real magic. What is this magic? In a moment you'll be slapped and go. Then tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You do not know where you are going. Kṛṣṇa says tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. But you do not know what kind of body you are going to get. So what this magic will do? So these are for less intelligent persons. They are not for sane persons.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: But first of all we must know also what is the position. If we also become enamored by the so-called scientists, politicians, philosophers, then we cannot preach. We must definitely be convinced that they're all rascals. As a gentleman, I can give him some respect. That is another thing. But he's a rascal. You must know that "I am talking with a rascal number one." So I... He cannot deviate me from my position. But I can talk in a nice way, gentlemanly. That is another thing. That is courtesy. But I know that these rascals, number fools, number one fools, they have no idea. Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore said, ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva (CC Madhya 19.151). In this way they are rotting within this universe. Kabhu svarge kabhu martye narake ḍubāya. Sometimes by puṇya they are in the higher planetary system, some powerful lokas(?). Sometimes fish, sometimes demigod, sometimes dog and cat. This is going on. Kṛṣṇa says. Nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani, botheration. Then there is... We have got this... Any intelligent person gets the Bhagavad-gītā. The rascals are reading Bhagavad-gītā, do not understand a line even. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). They do not question even. And after the destruction, body, I am not annihilated. Then where I am going? What is my next life? Na jāyate na mriyate vā. He does not die. The body is changed. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). So everything is clearly said. They do not inquire even that "After changing this body or change dress, what kind of body or dress I am going to have?"
Prabhupāda: Life is within the body, the soul. And because the soul is there, therefore a baby is becoming child, a child is becoming a boy, a boy is becoming young man, young man becoming old man, and the old man, when he passes, he gets another body. Very simple thing. As you are changing your body, now you're changing this body—you are there actually—so you accept another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati: (BG 2.13) "Those who are sober, intelligent, they are not disturbed." So if this is the fact, dehāntara-prāpti... After this body you have to accept another body. If you do not know what kind of body you are going to accept... There is no question of acceptance. You'll be forced to accept. It is not that your choice. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. You have to accept one body according to your karma. If you have behaved like a human being, you can get the body of a human being. If you have behaved like a dog, you'll get the body of a dog. And if you have behaved like demigod, you'll get.
And here Kṛṣṇa gives the very simple formula, janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti (BG 4.9). If we simply understand what is Kṛṣṇa... And what is Kṛṣṇa, for that purpose, we are writing so many books. The scholars, they are appreciating. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa is available very easily. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). But if you want to understand Kṛṣṇa tattvataḥ, then we have got so many books. You can read and try to understand Kṛṣṇa. And when you understand kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28), then your life is successful. And karmīs are warned, na sādhu manye: "This sense gratification is not good." Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur deha upapatti (SB 3.31.1). Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). This karma means mṛtyu-saṁsāra, again and again. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to change this body. You do not know what kind of body you are going to get. Therefore eight..., 8,400,000 different forms of body. Any one of them I can get.
| Page Title: | Kind of body (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 22 of Sep, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=69, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 69 |