Prabhupāda: Durvāsā Muni was brāhmaṇa and a great yogi. So he could not tolerate that a householder king... King is supposed to be dealing in politics, economics. Therefore, according to social position, he is lesser than the brāhmaṇa because they are simply engaged in the matter of transcendental advancement of life. But a devotee is above the brāhmaṇas. That is the position of devotee. Here, the highest qualitative position is to be situated in the modes of goodness or to acquire the qualities of brāhmaṇa, in this material world. Truthfulness, controlling the senses, controlling the mind, simplicity and knowledge, faith in God, there are so many qualifications which makes a person as recognized brāhmaṇa. But a devotee, never mind whether he's brāhmaṇa or a caṇḍāla, he automatically develop all these qualities. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā (SB 5.18.12). Anyone who has unflinching devotional faith in God, he has all the good qualities. I've several times narrated the story of that hunter. He was animal killer and he used to enjoy by killing the animal half. But when he became a devotee, he was not prepared to kill even an ant. Who taught him? Nobody taught him but he was simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. So if you actually making progress in devotional service, you are constantly in touch with the purest. Kṛṣṇa is the purest. Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhama pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). "You are the paraṁ brahma, Supreme Brahman." Brahman, every living entity is Brahman but He is paraṁ brahma, the leader of the Brahman. Just like the president is the first citizen of the state.
Killer (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. "God has only one son." Why? God one son? I asked the priest, that "God is limited or unlimited?" "Oh, unlimited." "Then why should you limit it by one son?" He could not answer. "Ordinary men have more than one son, and God has got only one son." Why? He could not answer. There is no philosophy. How people will...? This system, religion, was taught thousands of years, some shepherds, some fourth-class men. And now people are so much advanced in science, why they will accept it? Jesus Christ is preaching first thing, "Thou shalt not kill." That means he was preaching among the killers. So what kind of men they are? Tenth class of men. And how this tenth class man religion will be acceptable by the first class men? Now people are becoming first-class men. These things are go on, dogmas and nonsense philosophy. That will not stand. Automatically Christian religion is dead now. Nobody is going. There is no philosophy. There is no science. How it will be accepted. And they are violating, simply violating. Whatever it may be. Christ says "Thou shalt not kill." They are simply killing. How it will go on? How long you can cheat people? What is the explanation there? The first order is "Thou shalt not kill." Why they are killing? What is the answer?
Umāpati: Sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Violating.
Prabhupāda: In the Vedic literature it is said the animal killers cannot understand God.
Mother: Well, this is very good, sir, that you find this, and I say, this is not my argument... Yes. Hmmm.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Not practical also. I have seen the animal killers. They do not understand what is God. That is a fact. Neither they have got brain to understand it.
Mother: But you don't need brain if you're not going to study or to do anything further. If you just sit and sleep like...
Prabhupāda: No, we are studying. Because we are preaching, we are studying that. The animal eaters, they cannot have any conception of God. The brain is so dull.
Prabhupāda: This is their rascal's philosophy. They have no idea that by training one can forget sex life. So if you forget sex life, where is the question of abortion? Where is the question of abortion? But they cannot do that. Therefore, it is said adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram (SB 7.5.30). By nonrestricted sense enjoyment they are gradually going to the animal, lower grade of life. They cannot explain why there are so many varieties of life. They cannot explain. So this killer of baby within the womb, so the result will be that this man who is, I mean to say, indulging in abortion, he'll be put into the womb, and somebody will kill him. And as many wombs or babies he has killed, he'll have to take so many lives and being killed. So much so that it will be rather impossible for him for hundreds of years not to see the light. He'll remain in the womb and being killed. Does not know the nature's law. One cannot violate the nature's law. You can violate the state law. Suppose you kill somebody, you can escape by trick. But you cannot escape nature's law. As many times you have killed, so many times you have to be killed within the womb. This is nature's law.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Dr. Patel: You see, abhayaṁ sattva. First thing is abhaya. Abhaya-dāna, when you give, it is the greatest dāna. That is the first principle of all the religions, and that is the religion Christ taught there. The Middle East people and the Europeans had no what we call saṁskāra. Those people are very backwards, towards India's backside. Because of the climatic conditions.
Prabhupāda: No, from the First Commandment it appears that they were not very enlightened because why does he say "Thou shall not kill"? That means they were killers.
Dr. Patel: They were killing. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: They were killers.
Dr. Patel: Otherwise, they would not have said, "Thou shall not kill."
Prabhupāda: Why the first commandment is there, "Thou shall not kill"? They were fighting and killing amongst themselves. Not very advanced nation. And he was horrified when he saw that the Jews were killing animals.
Dr. Patel: In the temple.
Prabhupāda: In the temple.
Prabhupāda: Brahma-bhūyāya... Yes. (break) ...only process to take to bhakti-yoga. (break) ...Hare Kṛṣṇa means always remain guṇātīta.
Mr. Sar: Yes, correct. Because you are always... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...Kṛṣṇa. Definitely. (break) ...not independently. (break)
Guest (5): ...why the Jesus says you offer the other cheek? Which is better? Is the choice of us to be violent or nonviolent?
Prabhupāda: Yes. The persons to whom Jesus Christ taught, they were already fighting. Therefore his first injunction is "Thou shalt not kill." They were already killers. You see? And Arjuna is a gentleman. He was thinking before killing. Therefore he has to be induced, "You kill like this." But they were already killers. Otherwise why Jesus Christ said, "Thou shalt not kill"? That means that society was accustomed to kill. (break) Yes, that (indistinct) circumstance.
Prabhupāda: ...upagīyamānāt. Uttama-śloka-guṇānuvādā. Uttama-śloka-guṇānuvādāt. Uttama-śloka is Kṛṣṇa, who is worshiped by selected verses. So uttama-śloka-guṇānuvādā is executed by nivṛtta-tarsaiḥ. Nivṛtta-tarsaiḥ. Nivṛtti means ceasing; tṛṣṇa means material desires. Nivṛtti-tarṣair upagīyamānād. So this uttamaśloka-guṇanuvada, praising the Supreme, uttamaśloka, is done by the nivṛtta-tarsaiḥ. Nivṛtta-tarsaiḥ means one who has ceased material desires. He can chant. He can glorify. But it is not for ordinary mundane people. Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād bhavauṣādhi chrotra-mano 'bhirāmāt (SB 10.1.4). And this chanting is bhavauṣādhi. There is some... (break) ...of holy name or glorifying the Lord is the medicine for this material disease. Material disease means repetition of birth and death. To stop this repetition of birth and death, this is the only remedy. And this is used by liberated persons. So such a nice thing, who can refrain from it? Vinā paśughnāt: (SB 10.1.4) unless one is animal killer, one cannot cease from this business. Therefore animal killing is so sinful.
Satsvarūpa: You said: "Well, if you're sinful, there's no question of going on to a higher topic."
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is specially mentioned in the Bhāgavata: vinā paśughnāt.
- nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād
- bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt
- ka uttamaśloka-guṇānuvādāt
- pumān virajyeta vinā paśughnāt
- (SB 10.1.4)
Everyone can understand the truth except the rascals who are meat-eaters. Vinā paśughnāt. Paśughnāt. Paśu means animals, and ghna means killer. Christ therefore first says, "You shall not kill." These rascals are killers from the very beginning, and they're continuing. Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). Those who are paśughna, they cannot understand. They're thinking, "We are doing very good work, philanthropic work, opening hospitals and public roads, and every ten years, we are fighting and killing all the men population." They're happy. They are taking credit for these big, big buildings, but this is duṣkṛtina because simply these buildings are meant for committing sinful activities. That's all. "Wine, women, meat-eating, gambling. We are civilized." (break) ...this Geneva very many churches.
Guru-gaurāṅga: Many churches in Geneva? No.
Prabhupāda: No.
Guru-gaurāṅga: Not so many.
Prabhupāda: That means godless. Eh?
Prabhupāda: Just in the beginning Christ says, "Thou shall not kill." That is the beginning of religious life. The animal killers cannot understand what is God. It is not possible. There is a statement in the Bhāgavata, viṇa paśughnat.
- nivṛtta tarṣair upagīyamānād
- bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt
- ka uttamaśloka guṇānuvādāt
- pumān virajyeta vinā paśughnāt
- (SB 10.1.4)
"Who can remain aloof from the chanting of the holy name of God unless he's an animal killer?" Yes. Animal killers cannot understand what is God, what is God's name. That's not possible. (pause) Kṛṣṇa, what to speak of killing animal, He was embracing animal every morning, every... Yes. He was embracing.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That I was speaking. Of course, it is very strong words. That Western people they are claiming very civilized, but I have got objection. Therefore I have come to the West. Because, for example, the animal-killing. The Western people are mostly Christians. Now, Lord Jesus Christ said that "Thou shall not kill." But the result was that two thousand years passed, but the people of the Western countries, they are still killing. So when they have accepted Christianity? What is your answer?
Carol: But the actual original scriptures aren't enacted in Western life.
Prabhupāda: I mean to say that Lord Jesus Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." So, what kind of men were there that Lord Christ had to request them not to kill? That means they were killers. Suppose if somebody's thief, and if I give him some good instruction, I say "You should not commit theft." That means you are thief. You are already. Otherwise why I say that "Thou shall not commit theft"? A naughty child is disturbing. I say, "My dear child, don't do this." Similarly, when Christ said, "Thou shall not kill," that means he said amongst people who were in the habit of killing. Is it not?
Carol: Hmm.
Prabhupāda: Now, after taking instruction from Christ, first of all they killed Christ. That means they could not understand the instruction. Therefore their first business was to kill the instructor. And after that, two thousand years passed, still they are killing. So when they have accepted the teachings of Lord Christ? Can you answer this?
Carol: So you think the Christian faith hasn't been reflected in the behavior of Western people.
Jayadharma: Sometimes they say, Prabhupāda, that Jesus meant just...
Prabhupāda: Meant?
Jayadharma: ...just human beings.
Prabhupāda: All right. That means you are killer of human beings. THat means, in the beginning, you are all killers of human beings. And therefore you killed Jesus Christ. That is not very good qualification. Killer of human being... He said "Thou shall not kill." Where he says that "Thou shall not kill human beings"? That is your interpretation.
Śrutakīrti: That's obvious he meant only human beings, because he himself was killing animals.
Prabhupāda: Christ was killing animals?
Śrutakīrti: Well, he instructed his own disciples to distribute the fish. So he was also involved in killing of animals.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but he said that the fuits and vegetable should be your flesh. What is that?
Śrutakīrti: Well, that was before Christ. He never said that.
Paramahaṁsa: He also said that.
Śrutakīrti: Where does he say that?
Paramahaṁsa: He said that in the (inaudible). Yes. The Bible says that and Christ also spoke that, that the grasses of the fields and the fruits of the trees shall be your meat.
Prabhupāda: Then there is contradiction?
Gurukṛpa: I think it's because they are meat-eaters, all their intelligence is completely gone.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Vina pasughnat: (SB 10.1.4) Unless one is meat-eater, nobody can be disinterested in God's affairs. Only the meat-eaters, vinā paśughnāt, killers of animal. Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt (SB 10.1.4). This glorification of God is especially done by persons who are completely free from material attachment. Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagiyamanad bhavauśādhi (SB 10.1.4). And it is the medicine of getting free from this material bondage. Bhavauśādhi. And it is also very pleasing. Otherwise why they come to hear the Hare Kṛṣṇa? It's such a nice thing. Who does not like it unless he is a killer of animals? So even the killer of animals, they also hear. It is so nice. Only the gross killers, most abominable, they do not hear it.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: (looking at bones?) Chicken?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, some animal, bigger animal.
Rāmeśvara: Ribs? Lamb, sheep.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...kill. Simply kill. Paśu-ghna. As soon as you become animal killer, Kṛṣṇa consciousness finished. Parīkṣit Mahārāja, vinā paśu-ghnāt. Except the persons who are killers of animals, everyone will be interested.
- nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād
- bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt
- ka uttamaśloka-guṇānuvādāt
- pumān virajyeta vinā paśu-ghnāt
- (SB 10.1.4)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One good thing is that there is generally a growing movement amongst American people, and I don't know about other countries, for vegetarianism. People are becoming more and more.... I think it is due to our books, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Book distribution, we are educating the people in that way.
Prabhupāda: Actually, we are educating; that's a fact.
Scheverman: Yes, we can certainly agree with that.
Prabhupāda: So, we have to teach people how to refrain from sinful activities. Then, when he's pure, then God will reveal. If we keep them in sinful life, at the same time we want to preach them, it will not be possible. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said that those who are animal killer, they cannot understand about God. Vinā paśu-ghnāt. So if in the human society unnecessary animal killing is encouraged, he will never be able to understand what is God. The greatest sinful activity, paśu-ghnāt. So in human society, unnecessarily animal killing is going on. So they are entangled in sinful activities; therefore they are unable to understand what is God.
Kern: Are you speaking specifically about all animal killing, Your Excellency? Or, how do you speak of animal killing? In other words, vegetarian living, is that what you're speaking of?
Prabhupāda: No, animal means the four-legged animals. Vegetables are not called animals, even in dictionary.
Kern: Does the group live a vegetarian life, without any meat? Is that what you're saying?
Scheverman: I see. That's a basic principle of your way of life, is not eating any meat, any flesh.
Prabhupāda: The verse..., I think there is no Bhāgavata here. The Second Canto, I think, it is said,
- nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād
- bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt
- ka uttamaśloka guṇānuvādāt
- pumān virajyeta vinā paśu-ghnāt
- (SB 10.1.4)
The glorification of the Lord is done by the liberated persons. It is so nice, glorification of the Lord. So who can refrain from the glorification of the Lord unless he is animal killer? It is said there.
Kern: The origin of the group, where...? Who was the original founder, Your Excellency? The original founder of the group?
Prabhupāda: Which group?
Kern: This group, your group, Kṛṣṇa movement.
Prabhupāda: I am the founder, I am the founder.
Kern: You founded it.
Prabhupāda: In 1966.
Scheverman: 1966. And you utilized the traditions of oriental, especially Indian origin.
Prabhupāda: This book, this book. We are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is.
Scheverman: So this is a collection of the ancient writings as well as modern writings that reflect the way of life.
Prabhupāda: This is the summary of all Vedic literature.
Kulādri: There is more chance of being killed in New York City than in the jungle.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They warned me not to go to the Central Park in the evening. They say at night nobody goes there.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Except the thieves and killers.
Prabhupāda: Just see. Such an important city, and such important park, and nobody can go.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is there any stage at which these atheistic people have done anything good by accident?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is there any step?
Prabhupāda: Therefore they support this accident theory. Nowadays they have got the accident theory. Because ordinarily there is no good. There is no possibility. But by accident if some good comes, that's all. Otherwise, jagato 'hitāḥ, it is only fault. They are... But accidentally means good comes. Accidentally, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement came. (laughs) Although it was going on in India. Nobody called Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the scientists, the philosophers, the politicians. But accidentally came. Accidentally, we got result. You cannot explain God, therefore you take it as accident.
Prabhupāda: Now you were referring to the Vedic principle, but that does not mean you have to open slaughterhouse. But these rascals are opening slaughterhouse. You think it is Vedic principle? Suppose it is recommended that animals should be sacrificed in the Vedic ritualistic ceremony. Does it mean that you shall open regular slaughterhouse? Just as the Christians say that Jesus Christ ate fish, therefore they are right in opening big, big slaughterhouse? Maybe Lord Jesus Christ ate fish in some awkward circumstance, but that does not mean that he is recommending to open slaughterhouse. In the Ten Commandments he says, "Thou shalt not kill." When there is absolute necessity, there is no other food, that is another thing, but if there is sufficient other foodstuff, why should you kill? They are not even human being, those who are animal killers. Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). Those who are animal killers, they are not even human being, what to speak of religious system. Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt ka uttamaśloka-guṇa (SB 10.1.4). If you are animal killer, your God consciousness is finished. You'll never be able to understand what is God. Then your life is finished. This life is meant for understanding God, and if you are animal killer, then your God understanding is finished.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Jagadīśa: In the Kṛṣṇa book you describe that the only person who can't understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the killer of the cow.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Animal. Why cow? Any animal.
- nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād
- bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano 'bhirāmāt
- ka uttamaśloka-guṇānuvādāt
- pumān virajyeta vinā paśughnāt
- (SB 10.1.4)
Unless one is animal-killer, everyone welcomes God. This very word is used, vinā paśughnāt. Excepting these persons who are animal killers, everyone will welcome Kṛṣṇa. It is so nasty thing, animal-killing. So you require thoroughly to be washed. Then you'll understand. Actually it is brainwashing. Civilized man, in the presence of so many nice grains, fruits, flowers, vegetables, milk, so many things, and you are eating meat like the man in the jungle? Are you civilized? Does it mean that the fruit, flowers and grains is meant for animals? It is meant for human beings. You do not know how to utilize it. You are in the state of the animals. You kill animals and eat. Don't claim that you are civilized. Therefore your brain requires to be thoroughly washed to become civilized. Therefore your brain requires to be thoroughly washed to become civilized, Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then talk of civilization.
Prabhupāda: You can... If you want to increase picture, you can take important words... Just like the verse nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānāt: "One who has no more material hankering..." Paint it in picture. Nivṛtta-tarṣaiḥ, no more hankering for anything material. And there is word, dharma-śīla, "religious." What is that religion? One who has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he is religious. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). He is religious. Ordinary religious, they are not religious. In this way you depict one picture, one word. This can be...
Brahmānanda: Is that the first chapter?
Prabhupāda: Paśu-ghna. Paśu-ghna, the animal-killer.
Rāmeśvara: If we increase the number of pictures, the cost of the book to us will be an additional, between five cents and ten cents, but in exchange for that cost increase, more paintings.
Prabhupāda: That is your consideration. But if you are going to add nice pictures, these words can be explained.
Dr. Sharma: And the proper facility appears in the rights and democratic (indistinct). But we have a right to live on this planet. Why should we (indistinct) the right of another man?
Prabhupāda: They are... They are... They are described in the Bhāgavata, pāpinaḥ. Those who are killing other animals for maintaining his own body, they are very, very sinful. Very, very sinful. Therefore untouchable. According to Vedic civilization, the animal-killers, mlecchas, they are untouchable. They are so sinful.
Dr. Sharma: They talk about killing of animals for wants of survival. Darwin's case has been brought in, put in, survival, struggle for existence. I mean to have a talk with Dr. Svarūpa. Even the key of the evolution theory by Darwin, he is not feeling itself. It has lots of...
Prabhupāda: He has described in his book, Darwinism. What? What you have described?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is knowledges based on some simple speculation.
Prabhupāda: Speculation. It is not sound knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Expecting. Hope against hope. This is struggle. That they do not see. They do... We have got this valuable life. What we are doing? We are doing the same thing as the small ants do. So what is the difference between that life and this life? Therefore Kṛṣṇa comes that "This is not your business. Your business is to surrender unto Me." Sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). That will be solved automatically. But they don't. They take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and apply it for solving these problems. Gandhi and Bhagavad-gītā—what is that? Political struggle. Such a rascal. And he's leader? He does not know what is the purpose of Bhagavad-gītā. Has Kṛṣṇa come down to speak how to defend, how to eat, how to sleep? Is there any statement there? Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Solve this problem. This is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. And who, nonsense, understands this? Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). This teaching... This is a teaching of Bhagavad-gītā. And they are taking Bhagavad-gītā for solving these problems. That's all. Ants' struggle. Violence, nonviolence and... So such big, big rascals are guiding us. What benefit they have given? And they are praised. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ... (SB 2.3.19). He's an animal, and he's praised by some small animals. That's all. This is their position. They are not actual leader. They are animals, but because we are small animals, we are praising. So it is very difficult to understand our philosophy, but still, we have to preach. That is our mission. A little drop, maybe like a film or less than that... Still, they are... And again, when you cleanse this, you kill them—you become implicated. You have killed. You have to suffer. They are disturbing; still, you cannot kill them. This is your position. But people are with Flit (a bug killer) killing thousands of mosquitoes and flies, becoming implicated.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A letter has come from Haridāsa. In Bombay, your disciple, Haridāsa Brahmacārī? (break)
Prabhupāda: ...by good association. This is the result of our movement. (break) (Bengali)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhakti-caru? Should I call for him?
Prabhupāda: Hmm... Such nice color display, and there is no brain. The animal-killer civilization, Western country, has killed all their brain, good sense, good sentiment, everything.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gone.
Prabhupāda: Rotten.
| Page Title: | Killer (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Serene |
| Created: | 07 of Mar, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=23, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 23 |