Karmi (Conv. 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"karmi" |"karmi's" |"karmis"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1976, Madras:

Devotee (3): (break) A devotee who has tasted the nectar of the lotus feet of the Lord can never, if he falls down, can never forget it. Does it mean that his journey in the material world is finished, I mean, is about to finish?

Prabhupāda: Answer, somebody.

Mahāṁśa: What was the question?

Prabhupāda: Answer.

Devotee (3): A person who has tasted the nectar of the lotus feet of the Lord, if he falls down he can never forget anything. He doesn't act like an ordinary karmī. Does that mean that his journey in the material world is about to finish?

Mahāṁśa: He falls down due to certain offenses, but afterwards, by the mercy of a pure devotee, he comes back. Because he has tasted the nectar of devotional service, he may try to enjoy the material world for some time. But afterwards he will be fed up again and come back.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a statement in the Bhagavad-gītā that if one is engaged in the service of the Lord, even if he falls down, he is to be considered saintly. Sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30).

Prabhupāda: Yes, if it is accidental. If it is purposefully, then he is not saintly; then he is offender.

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: (break) So then the chance is lost. Repeatedly Kṛṣṇa is saying, "You give up all this habit. Just become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Sarva-dharmān..." Nobody will hear. "Why shall I not?" There is a Bengali song, cakṣe yadi lāge bhālo keno dekhbo nā: "If it is gratifying to my eyes, why shall I not see a beautiful woman? Why you are forbidding me?" Cakṣe yadi lāge bhālo: "It is pleasing to my eyes. Why you are forbidding me? This is going on. Cakṣe yadi lāge bhālo. If there is little happiness, don't mind it is flickering. It will go on. The Carvaka Muni: ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet: "Some way or other prepare foodstuff with ghee." "I have no money." Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā: "Just take. Beg, borrow, steal, bring ghee and prepare nice foodstuff and eat and enjoy life." This is the material world. But śāstra says, "No, no, no. Don't do this. This is the hog's business. Tapo. Just try to go, follow austerity." Even those who are so-called advanced in knowledge, karmī, jñānī, yogī, they are also after sense gratification. Karmī is openly after sense gratification and jñānī is subtly. "No, no. This kind of..." Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. "Now I shall enjoy Brahman. I shall become God." This is another side, the same sense enjoyment. Because I have failed becoming a minister or becoming a king, becoming a leader, becoming—I have failed, now I shall become God.

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Even that is not achievement. To control the senses, that is not very great achievement. The great achievement, how we have become a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa. So that will include everything. You haven't got to prepare gold, but if you want gold, Kṛṣṇa will send you. So why should I try for that and waste my time? Let me become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is required. Kṛṣṇa.... Yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham: (BG 9.22) "I shall give you all protection. I shall supply whatever you want," Kṛṣṇa said. So I shall do such thing when Kṛṣṇa will be my protector and supplier and everything. He is all-powerful, so He will do that—if I require. I don't require anything. I.... Simply I have to become a sincere, pure devotee. But if I require something, it will come from Kṛṣṇa. Why shall I try for it? A rich man's son, he doesn't do anything for earning money. He knows, "My father is rich and as soon as I require money, he will give me. So why shall I become a big, big businessman and become a karmī?" Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatām upāry adhaḥ (SB 1.5.18). You try for that thing which you did not achieve so long, even if you have traveled from different species of life, different planets. For that thing you try, which you have not achieved. Simply you have become implicated.

Morning Walk -- January 21, 1976, Mayapura:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: You conquered a lot of devotees by prasādam.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Yes. Automatically he becomes devotee: "No, we shall become, remain here." This is the secret. Why the woman is liked? Because the woman, if she is trained up to give satisfaction to the tongue, to the belly and the sex, straight line, she becomes favorite immediately. This is woman's business. And people are hankering. The karmīs especially, they are hankering after these three things: palatable dishes, fill up belly, and sex. That's all. If the woman can do it, she conquers over the husband immediately because these three things they want. Take things very practically. Hm? Am I wrong or right?

Jayapatākā: You are always right.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. Tā'ra madhye jīhwā ati, lobhamoy sudurmati, tā'ke jetā kaṭhina saṁsāre, kṛṣṇa baṛo doyāmoy, koribāre jihwā jay, swa-prasād. So prasādam should be so nice that he'll (be) conquered. He'll not go to the restaurant; they will come to Māyāpur. I have seen in Japan. Who is? You were... Where you were staying, that place?

Sudāmā: Which place, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No, no, far away from the city.

Morning Walk -- February 4, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Mater... They are rascals, mūḍhas. Their only title is "mūḍha," ass. Viśvanātha Cakravartī has described the karmīs as mūḍhas. Karmīs are lowest grade of mūḍhas. And above them the jñānīs. And above them, muktas, liberated. And above them, bhakta. And above all bhaktas, kṛṣṇa-bhakta. This is the graduation. So karmīs, they are all mūḍhas.

Bhavānanda: There are other kinds of bhaktas other than kṛṣṇa-bhaktas?

Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes. Nārāyaṇa-bhakta, viṣṇu-bhakta. They are all Kṛṣṇa, but above all of them is kṛṣṇa-bhakta.

Bhavānanda: Many people in India, they say they are śiva-bhaktas.

Prabhupāda: They are all in the material world, karmīs. Karma-kāṇḍa, ritualistic ceremonies. Prahlāda Mahārāja has described them. What is that very word used? And meaning is "one who cannot control their senses." Avijita-indriya. Ajitendriyāṇām, ajita, "one who could not conquer the senses," they are called karmīs. Ajitendriyāṇām. So all these penances, silence, meditation, then studying the Vedic literature, and so many things are there. Prahlāda Mahārāja, in one word he says, "They are meant for ajitendriyāṇām, one who could not conquer over the senses, for them." And for a devotee, one who is actually pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he is sa guṇān samatītyaitān (BG 14.26). Not that a tiny devotee can claim that he has overcome the influence of this world. No. This is called paramahaṁsa. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān (BG 14.26). Not that because you have taken to devotional..., you have become immediately. The process has begun immediately, curing process. But we should not think that we have become perfect. That is wrong.

Morning Walk -- February 6, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Kaniṣṭha-adhikārī. They are not devotees, but they are called bhaktābhāsa. There is some signs of bhakti. Actually they are not bhakta. Bhaktābhāsa. Ābhāsa. Ābhāsa means a simple, a little light.

Hṛdayānanda: So devotee really means one who has love for Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes, unalloyed, without any condition. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11), zero, all other, that "I am this, I am that, I am jñānī, I am yogi, I am karmī, I am minister, I am king"—all these are thinking like that, they're all nonsense. "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa"—that is greatness. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). That is self-realization, ātma-tattvam.

Dayānanda: So because that person is very rare, then, I guess, the only way we can possibly know how to become like that is to find one pure devotee and exactly follow that way of Kṛṣṇa consciousness that he has.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Dayānanda: I mean to say that because a pure devotee is so rare, the only way must be to find out a pure devotee and exactly follow.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you try to find out... (end)

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Individual freedom means.... We should always know our freedom is limited.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Limited. Yes. But...

Prabhupāda: So we are not.... Because the Absolute, so how you can..., your freedom can be absolute?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: So the karmī thinks.... His freedom is limited to thinking "Am I going to eat this meat rare or well done?" That is the sort of freedom he is getting.

Prabhupāda: No, you have to...

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Completely ignorance.

Prabhupāda: Just like a thief. He also has got the conscience, "Why shall I steal?"

Ātreya Ṛṣi: "This or this."

Prabhupāda: "This or this." But he knows that "If I do it, I shall be punished."

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes. But when an individual spirit...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is that actual freedom, though? Is that freedom?

Prabhupāda: No, I have already said that you cannot have absolute freedom.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Lokanātha: They did not take that to mean the constitutional position of the living entity.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they do not know. Therefore they are less intelligent. They are individual, but artificially they are thinking, "I shall become one."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the karmīs may argue that to become desireless is against the natural order. Because we see that right from the beginning of our life we're desiring so many things.

Prabhupāda: Desireless. When he will desire less, you convince. They're always desiring.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: Then where is desireless?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But we're saying anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy anāvṛtam (Brs. 1.1.11).

Prabhupāda: Anya, anya means anyathā. You are servant, you should always desire how to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is your natural. And if you don't want to serve, that is anyathā. Anyābhilāṣa. That is anyābhilāṣa. Anya means other, abhilāṣa means desire. So everyone has got desire, but that desire should be natural, according to position. But if you desire something else, nonsense, then you suffer. That... Caitanya Mahāprabhu said jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). You are eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, so you desire only how to serve Him. Why you are desiring otherwise? They will suffer. We are desiring, "I shall become God," "I shall become one with God," "I shall become this, I shall become..." So many hundreds and thousands. So that you have to stop.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: So many. This tail, dog's tail. Either you become sannyāsī or gṛhastha or anything, the tail is this side. You may grease it as much as possible, but the whole tendency is sex, that's all, in different dresses only. The objective is sex. This is going on. Some of them are openly declaring that "I am for sex," and some of them showbottle. But the objective is sex. This is the whole world. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tucchaṁ kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha (SB 7.9.45). And the sannyāsīs like Rajneesh, they are advocating, "This is life—sex. By sex indulgence you get salvation." These Brahma-kumārīs. Not brahmacārī but Brahma-kumārī. Kumārīs are available very easily. And they keep. And the rich men, they are supplied with nice, beautiful kumārīs. They pay money. This is going on. Brahma-kumārī. They enjoy and they invite the karmīs to enjoy and get money. Kumārī is there; money is there, that's all. Everywhere this is going on.

Morning Walk -- April 24, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Ah, tasyaiva hetoḥ prayeteta kovidaḥ. That is intelligence. (break) ...intelligence. Why should you stop in one point? Make further progress.

Guru-kṛpā: (break) ...the jñānī, to try to seek out, is better than to be a karmī.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Guru-kṛpā: The jñānīs, they are trying to study Vedānta to find out what is the end. So that is better than being karmī.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guru-kṛpā: Even if they don't know the answer, they are trying to seek out.

Prabhupāda: No, their answer is there, merging with the Supreme.

Guru-kṛpā: But again they must come back. That's not complete liberation.

Prabhupāda: That means not complete knowledge.

Morning Walk -- April 24, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho 'nādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ (SB 10.2.32).

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Practically, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we see that we're dealing mostly with karmīs, not with jñānīs, in our preaching work.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: And they are simply interested in some immediate satisfaction.

Prabhupāda: Karmīs not. Vikarmī. Karmī, vikarmī, akarmī. We are dealing with vikarmī.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Vikarma, oh. Prohibited actions.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Karmīs will not do anything sinful.

Guru-kṛpā: Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4).

Prabhupāda: Vikarma, yes.

Devotee (2): So why do we call them karmīs?

Prabhupāda: Vikarmīs, opposite karmī.

Devotee (2): So there's practically no karmīs.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sinful.

Prabhupāda: Sinful activities, duṣkṛtinaḥ. Vikarma. Therefore they will be punished in different forms of life. Therefore we find so many species of life, forms of life. This is punishment. But māyā's curtain, they are thinking, "We are happy." Just like this tree is a punishment, but it has no sense that this is punishment.

Morning Walk -- April 24, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...difference between animal and man. Therefore if one is not spiritually advanced or has no spiritual sense, he's animal. He is not human being. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). The verdict is already there. Sa eva go-kharaḥ. He is nothing, no better than the cows and asses.

Devotee (3): Often the devotee thinks that he's more unhappy than the karmīs because he knows he's unhappy.

Prabhupāda: Then that means he is not a devotee.

Devotee (3): He's not a devotee.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He's not devotee. Devotee means the first sign will be happy, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). If he's not prasannātmā, he's a rascal. He has not entered even devotional life. He's outside. That is the test. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. When he saw Viṣṇu, he said, "Everything is all right. I don't want anything." Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi. That is Vaiṣṇava. And if he is still in want or unhappiness, that means he has no spiritual life at all. He is simply making a show.

Morning Walk -- April 24, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That is another. That is another. That is to remember the terrible condition of karmīs. (break—in car) ...devotee who thinks unhappy because he is thinking, "I am not getting tea. I am not getting cigarette. There is restriction of illicit life, no meat-eating..." In this way he is unhappy.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He cannot gratify his desire.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Real devotee will think, "Oh, so many botheration I have now given up." Anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje (SB 1.7.6). Bhakti-yoga means upaśamam: "No more this, all this nonsense." That is bhakti-yoga, anartha-upaśamam, completely given up. Bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje, lokasya ajānato vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām. But they do not know anything. They are increasing anartha. They are to give up cigarette. No, they are manufacturing new brand of cigarette and advertising, "Please come. This cigarette is better than the other." This is going on. This is karmī life. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). He has no sense that "I have smoke this cigarette and why, after another cigarette, the same thing?" But no. "I have enjoyed sex here. Why another sex?" He has no sense.

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Māyāvādī rascal, Caitanya Mahāprabhu has condemned them, māyāvādī-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa (CC Madhya 6.169). If you hear Māyāvādī association, then your bhakti life is finished. Don't touch them. (break) Still, they are little more than the karmīs. (break) ...this place they are dragged through this, what is called? Short grass? Through this.

Devotee (1): That is anxiety, Śrīla Prabhupāda. That is anxiety, when one goes to Yamarāja and has to face.

Prabhupāda: That is the result of material anxiety. (break) To become anxiety-less, no more anxiety. That is nonsense.

Guru-kṛpā: They say, "Kṛṣṇa says, na śocati na kāṅkṣati."

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guru-kṛpā: Na śocati na kāṅkṣati.

Prabhupāda: That is material, śocati, kāṅkṣati. But in spiritual world the same śocati, kāṅkṣati, is there, but for Kṛṣṇa. First of all you have to negate the material śocati, kāṅkṣati. Then spiritual, mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām. Beginning is brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu (BG 18.54). Then spiritual anxiety begins. When this is neutralized, then actual life begins. That is bhakti. Otherwise what is the mean...? Mad-bhaktim. In bhakti there is anxiety. That is spiritual anxiety.

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: So that is good for the less intelligent class of men. Because they cannot understand what is bhakti, so Buddha therefore says, "First of all make this zero, rascal. Then your real life begins." But what is that real life he did not say, because the rascals will not understand. Simply advised, "You make this zero, śūnyavādī." Then, when time will come, he will understand what is positive.

Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, this process is su-sukham, very, very joyful. So how can we explain to the karmīs that this anxiety...

Prabhupāda: You are not feeling joyful? To chant, dance, and eat prasādam is not joyful? Is it not?

Devotee (2): Yes.

Prabhupāda: Then what do you want more? And simply by chanting, dancing, and eating prasādam you are making progress. Therefore it is su-sukham. You haven't got to press your nose and make your head down and starve for three hundred years, nothing like that. Go to the forest, go to the Himalayas.... No. At your place you chant, dance, and take prasādam. That's all. (break)

Room Conversation -- April 30, 1976, Fiji:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The karmīs will argue that "I am not ready to hear this yet."

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The karmīs will argue, "I am not ready to hear this yet." Many people, they come and they hear this philosophy, they say, "Very nice. But I am not ready for it yet."

Prabhupāda: But why you have come here, to hear Bhagavad-gītā? Why you have come?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Generally, they come to take nice prasādam.

Prabhupāda: All right, that is also kṛṣṇa-prasādam. Prasādam means we offer the foodstuff to Kṛṣṇa; then it is prasādam. So you have not come, but you have to come to take prasādam. This, it has got connection with Kṛṣṇa. So therefore we welcome you that at least for eating, you are coming to Kṛṣṇa. Gradually, you'll understand Kṛṣṇa, by eating only. Kṛṣṇa is not so easy to be understood, but we are giving you facility to eat kṛṣṇa-prasādam so that one day you can understand this movement. This is the policy. Actually, that is the policy. We are not poor-feeding. That is not our philosophy. Like Vivekananda. Daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā. No, we are not after that. We are giving you prasādam. And that is fact, that by eating, eating, eating, eating, you one day will become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Simply by eating. Because you are so dull, you cannot understand the philosophy. You know the belly like the animals.

Room Conversation with Siddha-svarupa -- May 3, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Anyway, you can count, yes. (break)

Siddha-svarūpa: There are a lot of devotees here who follow the principles but cannot completely... (break) ...shaved up, and they still wear karmī clothes pretty much, but they're clean, they're devotees, and in this way they're attracting many of the local people, because they're able to relate to them.

Prabhupāda: So that...

Siddha-svarūpa: They're not lowering your standard.

Prabhupāda: No, naturally, but when they are initiated they must shave. They must keep to the standard. If one becomes initiated and he still keeps the hippie form, that does not look nice. Do you think that is all right? No, that is not good. So long they are coming as outsider, joining kīrtana, they may have their own dress, it doesn't matter. They are coming to kīrtana, that must be (indistinct). But when they are to be initiated, they must follow the rules and regulations given by the spiritual master.

Room Conversation with Siddha-svarupa -- May 3, 1976, Honolulu:

Siddha-svarūpa: I think it is pretty clear, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's just for clarification, that they're working, they have a store on..., a very nice store, they're distributing foodstuffs to all the other stores on the island, and they're working a lot within the society with the karmīs, I guess. So their thinking is that "If we shave our heads and wear robes, like that, then they'll look at us...

Prabhupāda: That is not... Because imitating. Officially don't chant. Who is prohibiting to chant? You can chant, you can dance, you can take prasādam.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Can they actually say that "His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda is my spiritual master" if they haven't accepted all of the instructions?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Can one actually say that my spiritual master is such-and-such person if I am not following all of the...

Prabhupāda: What is the use of following (indistinct). We have got that simple thing, you can follow. What is the use? False propaganda. Because you think that we could not accept... (indistinct) ...we are trying to follow the (indistinct).

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...concerned with the material world, you remain.

Rādhāvallabha: (break) ...put out by the karmīs, and it is a book on how to become peaceful and happy, and it shows pictures of dogs and cats sleeping, and it says, "This is how you do it. You should lie down like this and everything will be all right."

Prabhupāda: The dog is lying peacefully because he has got sense that "I have got a good master." Therefore he is sleeping. They do not sleep peacefully without master.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) ...Śrīla Prabhupāda, is that the scientists have been proven guilty. Now we have to decide what their punishment should be.

Prabhupāda: Nature will punish them. (break)

Devotee (1): ...kind of programs should we develop to defeat the scientists? Just like we distribute books in the street. A lot of times the scientists may not get some of these books.

Prabhupāda: Defeat is that "You are scientist. I don't want death. Please stop it." Ask him. "I don't want disease. Please stop it. Then you are scientist. Otherwise I kick on your face."

Morning Walk -- May 26, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: ...speaking karmī and bhakta.

Devotee (1): The bhakta has no desires to fulfill, whereas the karmī has unlimited desires to fulfill.

Devotee (2): The bhakta desires to carry out the order of Kṛṣṇa, and the karmī is interested in satisfying himself, gratification of the senses.

Prabhupāda: Karmī is also working and bhakta is also working. Then what is the difference?

Hari-śauri: One is working for his own sense satisfaction and the other is working for the sense satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee (2): Mentality?

Devotee (3): The devotee is peaceful, ever peaceful.

Prabhupāda: Karmī.... Just like, I began this Kṛṣṇa consciousness business with forty rupees, eh, in New York. Now, say within eight or ten years we have got forty crores. What is the karmī who started his business with forty rupees and within ten years, eight years, has got forty crores?

Devotee (3): Therefore the difference is the karmī's not successful.

Prabhupāda: A bhakta is never unsuccessful.

Morning Walk -- May 26, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Karmī.... Just like this house you have got. For a karmī to invest so much money, it will takes fifty years. We got this by donation. (laughter)

Hari-śauri: Nobody's going to come up to a karmī and give him six hundred thousand.

Prabhupāda: So after $600,000 for a karmī it will take six hundred years. (laughter) For a bhakta somebody comes, "Take it." (laughter)

Devotee (1): Just like we all have so many watches. You'll notice everyone in our society has watches.

Prabhupāda: They haven't got, karmīs?

Devotee (1): Some of them do.

Prabhupāda: What is the idea? You are asking question? Without have watches? We can live without watches? What is the idea?

Devotee (1): Well they're..., usually they'll say we're.... If we are supposed to be spiritualists, then why do we have so many cars, why do we have so many watches, why do we have so many different things that they can see are there within the temple?

Prabhupāda: Yes. We acquire them without any effort. We are not after these things. But Kṛṣṇa sends, we take—so many cars, so many watches, so many houses for propaganding Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why shall I be greedy?

Devotee (1): Simply we are preaching and everything comes.

Morning Walk -- May 26, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: So when it is used for Kṛṣṇa.... Just like these rascals, they do not know. They wanted to use it for themselves. It is ugly, no fruit. We see near Bombay, they have got so many coconuts. How beautiful it is with fruits and leaves. Because we use it for Kṛṣṇa. (indistinct) "Oh, they have got fear(?). The coconuts will fall down on your head." (everyone laughs) And they make it ugly. They kill children, but we, we're training children how they're offering obeisances. We do not kill. We beg them Kṛṣṇa conscious. So our activity all spiritual. (break) ...afraid of population. We say "Create any number of population, but make them Kṛṣṇa conscious." That is our restriction, that if you cannot make your children Kṛṣṇa conscious, then don't beget. And if you can do that, then hundred children can be got. Na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. This is our.... We say that if you cannot beget Kṛṣṇa conscious child, don't become father and mo.... And if you can produce Kṛṣṇa conscious children, then become father and mother hundreds of children.

Hari-śauri: The karmīs are always in anxiety about something or other.

Prabhupāda: Ha?

Hari-śauri: The karmīs, they're always fearing something.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 26, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be. Supposing it is good. But he does not think "How I shall live in this way and next time I may be cats and dogs and cockroaches. What I'm doing for them?" Therefore they will evade: "No, no. There is no next life." Because it is horrible for them.

Devotee (2): Most of the karmīs think that if you believe in the law of karma, it applies to you, but if you do not believe...

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee (2): Most of them think that if you believe in the law of karma, it applies to you.

Prabhupāda: When it is law, you believe or not believe, rascal, it will be effective, if it is a law. You believe, I don't believe, if I commit theft I'll not be punished. So what is your belief? As soon as you commit theft, you'll be punished. You believe or not believe. That is law. What is the value of your belief? Rascal may believe that "I'm not going to be old man. I shall remain young man." Believe or not believe, must become old man. What is the value of your belief? Trust no future. You believe or not believe, there is future. What is value of your belief? Where do you.... You have complete control? Here the law is "Keep to the right." You don't believe. Now "Why shall I keep to the right? I shall go to the left." Immediately you'll be punished. You have to believe. I'll do wrong way, see the result. Immediately there's ticket. So what is the value of your belief? The law is law. Ignorance is no excuse for law. You have committed something wrong, and in the court you're going to be punished. If you say the clerk, "Sir, I did not know that by committing this act how I shall be, I will have to be punished." That is not excuse. Your ignorance they do not believe; you must go. That is the law.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: ...difference between our activities and general people's activities.

Devotee (1): The result is different.

Hari-śauri: Our activities are liberating, and their activities are entangling.

Devotee (2): The difference in our activities is that because we see everything as Kṛṣṇa's energy, we feel the material world is never disturbing to us. Whereas for the karmīs, the material world is always very disturbing for them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But they want that disturbance. He's trying to be happy, but they do not know what is eternal happiness. We're also trying for happiness, but our aim is eternal happiness.

Devotee (3): They think that eternal happiness means the same happiness that we experience in the material world, but it lasts forever, because they cannot conceive of a different quality of blissfulness.

Prabhupāda: This is difference. One is eternal; one is temporary and miserable. Although it is so-called happiness, it is temporary. At any moment it is finished. Actually there is no happiness. Still, even they consider this is happiness, that is temporary. You cannot enjoy. At any moment you'll be finished. Just like the surfers, they're enjoying happiness. At any moment they can be finished.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: He has got big belly. (laughter) And Brahmānanda. Gargamuni also. Acyutānanda, yes. In India?

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee: These karmīs and their sputniks, they're claiming they're going to heavenly planets, all these planets all over the universe, but you tell us that they can't actually go to these places.

Prabhupāda: Yes, if you have got suitable machine you can go.

Bhūdhara: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhūdhara: They now say that they're going to attempt to create a planet that has perfect air, and trees, and they're only charging...

Prabhupāda: Another bogus. Another bluff. So be satisfied with their bluffs. That's all. (break, conversation continues in car)

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Now, if He is ordering to become His devotee, how can I try to become another God, competitor? This is the folly, and for this we are suffering. He asked him, "You become My devotee." And I want to become another God, competitor. And therefore we are suffering. We cannot become another God. That is not possible. But artificially you are trying. Therefore you are suffering. Anything you try artificially, you'll suffer. If you try for a thing artificially, then what is the result? Result will be suffering and disappointment. Therefore śāstra says, tasyaiva hetoḥ prayeteta kovidaḥ. Don't try for such things... You have tried all through in different forms of life. You have failed. So don't try for that. But try to become servant of God. Then your life will be successful. Because in the material world the endeavor is how to become God in different varieties: how to become president, how to become minister, how to become master, how to become very strong man, very wealthy man, very beautiful man, so on, so on, so on, up to—when everything fails—then how to become God. When everything fails, then, ultimately, "Now I shall become God." The same disease is there, how to become big, now the biggest. And that is the same disease in a different form. Therefore, Caitanya-caritāmṛta, it is said, kṛṣṇa-bhakta-niṣkāma, ataeva śānta, bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmī-'aśānta' (CC Madhya 19.149). Bhukti means material enjoyment. Karmīs... Just like ordinary men, they are working so hard day and night. This airplane is running here and there, (loud airplane passing over) day and night, carrying karmīs. So this is bhukti. How to enjoy this material world fully, this is called bhukti. So because they are after bhukti, how there can be peace? He has to work very hard. And mukti, those who are jñānīs, they are trying to become one with God. So that is also very difficult. But still, there are so many sādhanas. That is also... But the desire is there. The karmīs are desiring to enjoy material world, and the jñānīs are desiring to become the supreme. That is also another desire. So bhukti mukti siddhi. Yogis, they are trying to achieve some mystic power. And if you attain some mystic power, without airplane if you can fly... The yogis can do that. Or if you can walk on the water... The yogis can do it. This is called laghimā-siddhi, to become light, very light. So that... By yoga practice you can do that. So animā, laghimā, siddhi, prāpti, mahimā—there are so many siddhis. So siddhi-kāmī, they are also desiring something. And the jñānīs, they are also desiring something, and karmīs, they are also desiring something. The bhakta, he does not desire anything. Therefore peacefulness is for him, because he does not desire anything. He does not ask God anything. That is śūnyam. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (BRS 1.1.11)—no motive. That "I am becoming a devotee for this purpose"—no, that is not pure devotee. "I am eternal servant of God, so it is my duty to serve Him, that's all." That is peace. And so long he'll desire, then he'll not have any peace. That is not possible.

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Anything without devotion to the Lord is harmful to the humanity. Anything, either karmī or jñānī or siddhi, it is all harmful, because all these things will keep him aloof from God. His mission is that he is separated from God. His mission should be how to go back to home, back to Godhead. So all these things—bhukti, mukti, siddhi—will keep him aloof from God. Therefore it is harmful. It will not allow him to go nearer to God, and that is harmful. That is the greatest harm. Being aloof from God, he's suffering. So these bhukti, mukti, siddhi will keep him aloof from God. He'll falsely think that "I am God." Yogis, if they can show some mystic yogic power, then naturally foolish people will think him that "Oh, here is God." And he's satisfied with that. He's not God, but foolish people will adore him as God, and he's satisfied. That means he keeps himself aloof from God. After this mystic power is gone, then he is no more valuable. So anything which keeps one aloof from God, that is harmful.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is the difference.

Rādhāvallabha: I went to the bank the other day to take out some money for the Press, and I took out a few thousand dollars. I had to take it in small bills, and there were karmīs there, and they were yelling, "They should be thrown out of town!"

Prabhupāda: They said?

Rādhāvallabha: Yes, and they were very angry because they don't make that much money in over two months.

Prabhupāda: The Communists also, they are envious of these capitalists.

Hari-śauri: The rich. "Make the rich pay," that's their slogan.

Rādhāvallabha: But the leaders of the Communists are rich.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Rādhāvallabha: The leaders of the Communists are all rich, and the people don't notice.

Hari-śauri: Andha, blind.

Prabhupāda: Russia, that, what is that, Communist leader?

Devotees: Nikolien? Lenin? Breshnev? Kruschev?

Prabhupāda: Kruschev. Kruschev. He was making money, therefore he was driven out. His son-in-law, his sons were being employed, neopolism, what is called?

Kīrtanānanda: Nepotism.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Hari-śauri: Envy.

Prabhupāda: Just see. There is story like that. One saintly person was sitting, and some karmīs came, that: "You are escaping, you are not working." So he said, "Why shall I work?" "You'll get money." "So what shall I do with the money?" "Then you can live peacefully." "I am living peacefully. Why shall I work?" (laughs) So they want to earn money, keep a good bank balance, and at the end of the life they want to live very peacefully, without any working. But if somebody is living peacefully without working, they will criticize him. Envious. They will accuse him, "You are escaping." If the end is this, and I shall live peacefully without any work—I am doing that in my own standard—why you are bothering me?

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Without any charges. Did you not say? But as soon as you shall say there is no tea, he'll go away. "Oh, horrible." (laughter) Just see. And you have to rise early in the morning. "Oh, it's still horrible." And chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. "Ah, still."

Hari-śauri: There are so many apparent contradictions in our life-style, the karmīs are just baffled. They see us living in a big nice house and enjoying such nice grounds and everything, and then we tell them we get up at three-thirty and take a cold bath and do so many..., and we don't drink or smoke or anything. They can't understand.

Satsvarūpa: The Sunday newspaper here a month ago did a very big story, the whole front cover. And it was called "Kṛṣṇa Consciousness: Salvation or Slavery."

Hari-śauri: That was that article that you saw in Honolulu.

Mādhavānanda: These are our two biggest book distributors of the women-Lekhaśravantī and mother Jagadhātrī.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Mādhavānanda: They claim that when we chant, we hypnotize ourselves.

Prabhupāda: And still we save expenditure. You hypnotize by drinking. (laughter) We haven't got to pay for that, whiskey bottle. That is also hypnotizing. You want to forget all day's labor by drinking. That is also hypnotizing. Or by gambling. So we also hypnotize. Better hypnotizing method.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Mādhavānanda: Sometimes the karmī salesmen, they stand around to watch us distribute books. Because they are so amazed at our techniques of sale and distribution, they want to learn.

Jayādvaita: They become very respectful. They don't know anything about our philosophy, but they see how nicely we...

Prabhupāda: Good salesmen.

Mādhavānanda: Yes. And sometimes they even offer jobs to the devotee, that "You come and work for me. You will be salesman for my..."

Prabhupāda: "And what nonsense book you have got? (laughter) We are going to stop your sales." Tell them. "And we are going to stop your sales. Instead of helping you for selling your books, we are going to stop all these nonsense books. That is our mission." Tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham. That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo jagat-pavitraṁ pragṛṇīta karhicit, tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham uśanti mānasāḥ (SB 1.5.10). That verse, that however nicely it is written with..., what is called, metaphor, poetic ornaments and very good language, grammatical set-up, and so on, so on. So that, although it is very nicely written from literary point of view, but because it does not contain any glorification of Kṛṣṇa, it is just like the spot where the crows take pleasure. Crows. The crows means they go the nasty place where all nasty things are thrown. They take pleasure there. So all these other literatures, they are meant for the crows. And this literature is meant for the swan, paramahaṁsa, white swans. So it is not the bodily color. It means those who are advanced in their development of life, consciousness, it is meant for them. It is not for the crows, who are still eating all nasty things in the garbage. Crows, they do that. They take pleasure where there are garbage, all nasty things and.... And the big swans, they will like water like this, garden like this. That is.... Even in the lower animals, there is difference between the crow's society and swan's society.

Room Conversation with Ambarisa and Catholic Priest -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: He, Moscow, he was chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa on the street, and when people asked "What is this?" "This is cinema song."

Ambarīṣa: Sometimes as devotees we have to be a little bit crooked.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) We shall do everything as the material person does, karmīs do, but we have to do everything for Kṛṣṇa, not person. Then it is all right. So?

Śrutikīrti: There's one thing, our best hours, some of the best business in the restaurant, would be very late at night, like between nine to eleven o'clock at night. So is that all right as long as we can arrange...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Śrutikīrti: ...everyone's following the program? People are up 'til midnight.

Ambarīṣa: Still they will come to the morning program.

Prabhupāda: But there will be picture of Caitanya Mahāprabhu?

Ambarīṣa: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, I was noticing as we walk that there are so many trash cans, but no one throws their trash in the can. There are so many trash cans, but none of the karmīs are throwing their trash in the can. They just don't care. They throw it along the road.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Śrīla Prabhupāda was pointing out that at seven o'clock in the morning you'll see everyone in the liquor stores, but they don't organize them to come and clean. You were mentioning that everyone is lining up to buy liquor in the morning with their money from the government. They don't work. But instead the government should have them working cleaning the parks, but they are not expert managers. (break) ...in the early hours the people are sweeping the streets, cleaning.

Devotee (1): People in America, they don't care, they don't care to even walk five steps to drop a paper in a can.

Makhanlāl: In the Upadeśāmṛta, in the eleventh verse, it says that if one takes his bath even once in the Rādhākuṇḍa he immediately awakens his love for Kṛṣṇa. I was wondering, some of those who have had the opportunity to take bath in Rādhākuṇḍa, it seems though it may take some time. I was wondering, is that because we don't see time in the proper perspective?

Prabhupāda: Why do you go to Rādhākuṇḍa? Unless there is some awakening of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (break)

Devotee (1): ...he's a rich man's son, but he's walking without shoes just like a sādhu. (break)

Satsvarūpa: ...was the president of Ann Arbor temple. I told him what you were thinking. You think you really want to go to Ann Arbor?

Prabhupāda: Not necessary.

Morning Walk -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: They are taking human flesh also. Gradually they will be accustomed to take human flesh. Carnivore also. (break) ...Mahāprabhu said, asat eka strī-saṅgī, strī-saṅgī, those who are attached to woman, he's asat.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) The question might arise that a jñānī is someone who is aware of his spiritual nature, that he's not this body, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Then the karmī is one who is, dehātma-buddhi, in the bodily concept of life, and he's desiring so many materialistic things. So how can it be that the karmī, who is after some material benefit, if he approaches Kṛṣṇa, he can be better off than the jñānī?

Prabhupāda: Because he has approached Kṛṣṇa.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Even he may be in the bodily concept?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That will be rectified. Kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā. Huh? What is that? Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31). Api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk (BG 9.30). When one has come to the fire, some way or other, he'll be warm, gradually. That is the.... He has come to the right path. (break) ...kāmād bhayāt, krodhāt. Either.... Anyone who comes to Kṛṣṇa.... Just like gopīs, they were captivated. They were village girls. They did not know what is God, what is Brahman, nothing. But they were captivated: "Kṛṣṇa is very beautiful boy." That's all. Even they forgot their own husbands. (break) ...or other, we have to develop our intense love of Kṛṣṇa. Then life is perfect. (break) (in car) One who is accepting this body as self, sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). They are making paper?

Devotee: Tar.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ, śudhyanti (SB 2.4.18). By the guidance of the spiritual master.

Devotee (4): You've already proved that, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (laughter)

Devotee (4): We're worse than Eskimos.

Devotee (3): Śrīla Prabhupāda? (indistinct) What about the verse in the Bhāgavatam that says if a devotee falls down that he's not to be considered as the fruitive workers or the karmīs, etcetera.

Prabhupāda: Falls down means again when he revives, he'll begin from that point, where he fell down. (break) ...it is to be understood that polluted.

Satsvarūpa: That's also sinful reaction.

Prabhupāda: Polluted means sinful. (end)

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Detroit temple, it was, that building was constructed at a cost of two million dollars, say some fifty years, sixty years ago. And we purchased it at three hundred thousand dollars. So when they said that there is a nice house, so I told "Let me go immediately." So I went there and talked with the proprietor, so I liked it very much. It is a wonderful palace. So he asked $350,000. So I talked with him and asked some concession. Then I last bid again, "I'll give you cash, three hundred thousand." So he said "Yes, I accept." There was no money. (laughter) So the Bombay purchase, you know, it was simply speculation. So Kṛṣṇa is giving us. For a karmī, it is not possible, but Kṛṣṇa gives us all facilities. You have been in that palace, Detroit? Very, very nice. Perhaps the best in our society, huh?

Hari-śauri: Without a doubt.

Prabhupāda: London, that is also nice, but not as nice. The building is so strong, and the rooms are so palatial, big, big, rooms. One room of this size of the whole...

Kīrtanānanda: How big is the temple room?

Hari-śauri: The temple room is not so big, fifty feet long and about thirty feet wide.

Prabhupāda: Bigger than here, double.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Very nice garden.

Prabhupāda: Very nice garden and on the riverside.

Morning Walk -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Śyāmakunda: The karmīs, they say that its... When you have this cow that won't give any more milk and its teeth are rotten where its going to die—it can't hardly eat properly—that it's a waste to not use that meat to feed people. It should be slaughtered.

Prabhupāda: I have written?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No. He's saying in a karmī book.

Śyāmakunda: They say that the economically proper thing to do is to kill the cow after it, er, and not waste the meat.

Prabhupāda: And who will take? When he'll die, who will take his meat? That is also economical. Why don't you give it to the animal-eaters instead of wasting it? Why they bury in the ground? Why? Let it be thrown eating by the jackals or anybody else.

Śyāmakunda: The people should eat their..., the people, then, according to that philosophy, right?

Prabhupāda: No, when man is dead, why the economic calculation is not taken? Hm?

Devotee (2): Because they think it is animallike.

Prabhupāda: Animal or a man, when it is dead, then it is the same value. Is there any difference of value between the animal body and man's body?

Devotee (2): They think it is barbaric.

Prabhupāda: "They think," but you think like human being.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: There is the question. (devotees laugh) but their reality is dog's race, and our reality is to advance in self-realization, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is difference. Therefore karmīs have been described as mūḍha, asses. Asses. And asses, why the example is given to the asses? Because the ass works very hard. It loads on the back tons of cloth of the washerman, and the washerman in return gives him little morsel of grass, and he stands at the door of the washerman, eats the grass, again loading. But he has no sense that "If I go out of these clutches of washerman I can get grass anywhere. Why I am loading so much?" The karmīs are like that. They're busy in the office, very busy. If you want to see him, "I am very busy now." (laughter) So what is your result of busy? "Now, I take two pieces of toast and one cup of tea. That's all." (laughter) And for this purpose you are so busy? He does not know why he's busy. Because in the books he's finding, "Now, the balance was one thousand million dollars, now it has become two thousand," that his satisfaction. But he will eat two pieces of bread and one cup of tea. When it was one million dollars, when it was two million dollars. But still he'll work hard. This is called karmī. Asses. Work like asses, without any aim of life. This is asses. Mūḍha. But Vedic civilization is different. The accusation is not correct. They are not lazy. They are busy for higher subject matter. And that busy-ness is so important that Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "Beginning from the childhood," kaumāra ācaret prājño (SB 7.6.1). Not lose a second time. So that is Vedic civilization. But these asses, they do not see that "These men are working like us, like dogs and asses. So they are escaping." Yes, escaping your fruitless endeavor. So the Vedic civilization was meant for self-realization. Vedic civilization begins from the varṇāśrama system. Varṇāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān viṣṇur ārādhyate (CC Madhya 8.58). How to realize Viṣṇu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore the system is varṇāśrama. In another place it is said, tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer (SB 1.5.17). The varṇāśrama means there is division: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. But the ultimate goal is viṣṇur ārādhyate. The Supreme Lord should be worshiped. That is the idea.

Arrival Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Vipina: After he took those books home and he read them, he wrote us a letter, and he said that he thought you were a very intelligent man and would like to speak to you. So we'll see. Maybe he can hear.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we are speaking something not of this world, but we are pointing out the defects of this world. "This world" means the world of sense gratification.

Vṛṣākapi: The karmīs, they say "What is the matter with sense gratification?" They say they like sense gratification; it's very good.

Prabhupāda: Very good, but if you can continue it. But you rascal, you cannot continue it. "Very good, I am now president," but why you are kicked out? Huh? Now, what about the Nixon? Very good, he was president, now he's kicked out, what is his position? He doesn't think that, that "I may be kicked out from my position at any moment. So what is the value of my sense gratification?" He was gratifying his senses. As he liked, he was doing. But now he's kicked out, what he can do now? Why does he not think that? Take the living example. Who wants to be kicked out from the presidency? But now he's kicked out. He's living also. He's not in that position. That Kruschev, he's not in that position. Why does he not think that "Any moment I'll be kicked out." And what is that enforcement that kicks out?

Vṛṣākapi: Why don't they think like that, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So one has to give up all these, karma, jñāna. The karmīs are working for sense gratification. The jñānīs are working for being liberated. The yogis are working for some magical power. Aṣṭa-siddhi. So one has to become free from all these desires. Anyābhilāsa-śūnyam, anyābhilāsa-śūnyam, jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam (CC Madhya 19.167). Simply you should be prepared to execute the order of Kṛṣṇa. If you are trying in different way, for sense gratification, karmīs are grossly, they want something (indistinct) they want nice car, wife, house, nice wife, nice (indistinct), So many things. That is karmī life. Jñānī, as they are baffled, they say, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, this endeavor for all mithyā. They take sannyasa, but after few days, again they take to the karmī's life. So that is also not good. Restless, so long you remain karmī, jñāni, yogi, restless. But when you become devotee you have no such desires, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (BRS 1.1.11). And then you become happy. Simply (indistinct) to execute the order of Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna, he after hearing Bhagavad-gītā, what was his position? His position was, "Yes, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava. Yes. Yes, I am now ready to do whatever You say." That is (indistinct). He did not become a karmī, jñāni, yogi. Simply (indistinct) to execute the order of Kṛṣṇa. Yes, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava. Naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā tvat-prasādān madhusūdana.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: This is wanted. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa says, "You fight." He hesitated. "How can I fight? To kill my grandfather, my teacher? To kill my brother? My nephew? And so on, so on, so on. What You are advising, Kṛṣṇa, I cannot do." Therefore Bhagavad-gītā was talked, and after learning he says, "Yes, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava." (indistinct) This is perfection. He remained the same soldier. In the beginning, he was declining to fight, but at the end, he has agreed, "Yes." In the beginning it was "No." And when he was perfectly Kṛṣṇa conscious, it is "Yes." The materialist person, they are accustomed to say, "No." "No, God." When you become "Yes, God," then you are perfect. Jñānīs are "No, God." The karmīs are "No, God," yogis are "No, God," everyone, "No, God." Only the bhaktas, "Yes, God!" Yes. So that is perfect. This morning one Indian gentleman was talking about this impersonal, what was his question?

Devotee: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: No, some gentleman was asking the question in the morning?

Devotee: (indistinct) interpretation, that one person is interpreting in this way and another in that way, so they're saying they feel like if...

Prabhupāda: So why they should interpret different way?

Guest: What was the question?

Prabhupāda: Just... Explain to him.

Room Conversation With Scientists -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Becoming entangled in the machine. Because he has forgotten his spiritual identity. He thinks "With this machine I can help myself." That is going on.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In a sense, it is also true that in the material world, especially material scientists, they make things more complicated.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The contamination of material desires. But when one develops spiritual desire, then he becomes more simple.

Prabhupāda: Karma-bandha. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, yajñārthāt karmaṇaḥ anyatra karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9), to become entangled.

Rūpānuga: So for a karmī, if you ask what is the purpose of life it is a very complicated question. For a devotee, it is a very simple question with a simple answer. It is very complicated, they will answer, "Oh, this is very difficult, we cannot discuss this in this class, this is too complex." That is the answer we got all our lives until we came to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Then you answered very simply-Kṛṣṇa. (devotee offer obeisances, door opens) Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Thank you for explaining these... (inaudible) (end)

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: We had some talk with Professor Kotovsky in Moscow. Recently our representative went to Moscow for selling our book. They have highly appreciated our books. They have given in writing appreciation.

Mr. Boyd: Your Grace, in regards to the organization of the movement, as such, I somehow am led to believe that there's no coordination between, should I say, your office, in regards to the karmī world, and the different temples. Are each..., does each temple operate by itself, or each division operate by itself?

Prabhupāda: No, (indistinct). There is separate arrangement for management, but the idea and philosophy is the same. Ultimately, I am managing. I have my twenty secretaries, they are called GBC, they are assisting me to manage. Every GBC has got a certain number of temples to supervise, and ultimately, I supervise everything. Therefore I come occasionally, stay for few days to see how things are going on. I have got hundred temples, big, big temples, very nice. They have organized palatial buildings, but I cannot stay anywhere. (laughter)

Mr. Boyd: That's the trouble with being boss. If you don't do it, nobody else will.

Prabhupāda: As soon as I say, "Ah, it is very nice place," the time is over, they say "You please get out." (laughter and groans from devotees)

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Devotee (4): Śrīla Prabhupāda? The karmī is thinking that service to humanity is the real high platform because...

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the best service to humanity, to raise them from gross ignorance of animal life. This is best service. People are in gross ignorance of animal life, and Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to raise him from that animal life to spiritual life, that is the best service.

Guest (2): Prabhupāda? Is Kṛṣṇa right here in the room?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Don't you see Kṛṣṇa there? (laughter)

Guest (2): When I'm looking at the picture, is Kṛṣṇa right here?

Prabhupāda: Whether you look or not look, He's there. If you have got some eye disease, you cannot see. But He is there.

Dr. Sharma: Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānām (BG 18.61).

Prabhupāda: Hṛd-deśe, He is within your heart. He is within atom. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham (Bs. 5.35). But you have no eyes to see Him. Otherwise, Kṛṣṇa is everywhere. Therefore those who are on the first-class platform of devotional service, they see everywhere Kṛṣṇa. Sthāvara-jaṅgama dekhe, nā dekhe tāra mūrti, sarvatra haya nija iṣṭa-deva-sphūrti (CC Madhya 8.274). He's seeing to the tree, but he's not seeing the tree; he's seeing Kṛṣṇa. That is a different. Sthāvara-jaṅgama dekhe, nā dekhe tāra mūrti, sarvatra sphūrti. He sees this tree, how it is Kṛṣṇa's energy, how it is acting. He studies all things as He has studied in the Bhagavad-gītā. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). Sadaiva, on account of his love... That is a very common sense.

Arrival Comments in Car to Temple -- July 9, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: He's very intelligent.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And Maṇibandha, he's another one, he's cooking with Ṛṣi Kumāra.

Prabhupāda: He's also very intelligent boy, but sometimes spoiled.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have a lot of them here.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, we have to take care of so many souls. (Karmī yells) What does he say?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He said you have a nice car. That's good they like the car.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Ask why him don't you come here? (laughter) Why you are driving taxi? Come here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's amazing how everybody is looking at us.

Prabhupāda: Now, formerly it was thirty-five, now it is

sixty-five?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Prabhupāda. Everything has doubled in price. This car is very ordinary, but it is because you are in it, Prabhupāda, that they are looking. Ordinarily it is not such a special car.

Prabhupāda: What is the make of it?

Hari-śauri: LTD. What is it?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's the same, more or less the same car that you had when you were driving in Los Angeles.

Hari-śauri: The same as what you had in Melbourne also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's a Ford.

Prabhupāda: Los Angeles this was Mercedes.

Morning Walk -- July 9, 1976, Washington D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Materialist always thinks that they will try to overcome the laws of nature, and when the laws of nature catch over...

Prabhupāda: Śudhyeta satya (?) Sometimes the spiritual master has to suffer for the sinful activities of his disciples. (break) ...this suffering is short cut. For the karmīs it would have been a huge suffering but devotee is (indistinct).

Devotee (2): So then if he is sincere, then he should not be so sick in due time, his health should be good if he's practicing. If a devotee is practicing principles, then he should become healthy.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, you cannot avoid sickness.

Devotee (2): No, but I mean, overall.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (2): Devotees are generally healthier than karmīs.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rūpānuga: Once there was this brahmacārī he used to complain to you about how sick he was all the time, and you said, "Are you not brahmacārī? Are you not following the brahmacārī principles?" Did you imply that if he were doing it sincerely he would not be so sick all the time?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's a fact.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Stop, don't read, it is now understood what is.... Mars, it is all in Arizona.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You were very perceptive to find it.

Rāmeśvara: No one is thinking like that. You are the only one who caught that, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Because I am the only one at the present moment intelligent.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We are still as dull (Prabhupāda laughs) as the karmīs. We would never have thought like that, Prabhupāda, about Arizona.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They mentioned that the pictures of Mars appear just like some of the picture of national parks in Arizona.

Prabhupāda: In other places they could not find, throughout the whole world, Arizona. That means the whole business is going on in Arizona.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They say that if this terrain were on the earth, we would immediately make it a national park, it looks just like one of the national parks.

Bali-mardana: In Arizona there is much government land. I passed through there recently. So there is good facility for them to make secretly.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The moon business was done there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This means it's definitely a very calculated plot to cheat the public.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: No but dream is... It may be, but when there is fire, you call it dream, but why do you call fire brigade? When you are diseased why you go to physician? Dream it. (laughter) The major problem is birth, death, and old age, and disease. You do not want that. You must seek the measures. That is human life. Whether birth, death, old age, disease can be stopped? If there is any such life that there is no more birth, death, that is human life. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. That is the Vedānta philosophy: "Now the human life is meant for enquiring about these things." If you don't enquire, then you remain animal. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to save the human society from this animal life. To bring him to the real human life. Animal life means there is suffering—go on suffering. Human life means there is suffering—how to get, how to counteract. That is human life. Suffering—so long you have got this body, there must be suffering.

nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma

yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti

na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam

asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ

(SB 5.5.4)

The karmīs, Ṛṣabhadeva is warning that nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma: (SB 5.5.4) these rascals being mad after sense gratification, they are doing everything and anything irresponsibly. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ. Pramattaḥ means mad. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). Things which you should not have done, but he's doing it. Why? Yad indriya-prītaya: Simply for sense gratification. Therefore, he advises, na sādhu ayam: this is not good. So why it is not good? Yata: he has already got a body, material body for which he's suffering, and he's again creating the circumstance by which he'll again get a material body and will suffer. Therefore, one should act very responsibly.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: We don't sit down idly.

Bali-mardana: God helps those who help themselves.

Prabhupāda: We are not idle preachers, we are working. All, very hard, more than the karmīs.

Rāmeśvara: These men, they go out to engage people in taking our books maybe twelve hours a day sometimes, ten hours a day, without any salary.

Prabhupāda: I am now eighty years old, I am working twenty-four hours. I think I work more than my young disciples (laughter).

Bali-mardana: Oh yes, definitely.

Prabhupāda: I work at night.

Rāmeśvara: It is hard to keep up with Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Hari-śauri: Very difficult.

Prabhupāda: We are not idle creatures.

Rāmeśvara: We are publishing his books and sometimes he is ahead of us by seventeen volumes.

Interviewer: How do you spend your days? You do an awful lot of traveling I understand.

Prabhupāda: Traveling is going on throughout the whole world and wherever I go, at night I write books.

Bali-mardana: Translates.

Prabhupāda: Translate. And daytime I meet devotees.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: They do not understand that we are talking on the spiritual platform and they are on the material bodily platform. Therefore they find contradiction. One has to be little sober to understand this movement and what platform we are speaking. They are accustomed, on the same example, hammering the bricks. And when they see others, they are not hammering the bricks, they think they are different. They cannot understand that life can be without hammering the bricks. Karmīs. In the Bhagavad-gītā, the word mūḍha, that has been explained by Viśvanātha Cakravartī, karmīs, these mūḍhas. They cannot understand.

Interviewer: I'm going to have to go back and hammer a few bricks. (laughter) It's been a pleasure, thank you very much, for your time.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Give him prasāda. Thank you very much.

Interviewer: Thank you again, I hope to see you again sometime.

Prabhupāda: Jaya.

Interviewer: Good day. (end)

Conversation After Interview with Religious Editor, Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That is the karmīs. Even the Orissa politicians, they accused Caitanya Mahāprabhu, because the Orissa politician, it is a fact the Mahārāja Pratāparudra, the King of Orissa during the time of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he was politically very strong. At that time the Muhammadans were conquering different parts of India, but they could not enter Orissa or the southern India. They were very strong. So this Mahārāja Pratāparudra politically was very strong. So the modern politicians of Orissa, they accuse Caitanya Mahāprabhu that, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu came to Orissa and Mahārāja Pratāparudra became influenced by Him, Orissa fell down. They accuse sometimes that Orissa's political position became weakened on account of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's influence on Mahārāja Pratāparudra. They say. The modern politicians of Orissa, they also do not like Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement.

Conversation After Interview with Religious Editor, Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, the Trans-India if he wants.

Hari-śauri: I'll see.

Prabhupāda: They can wait or one of them may come. So what is the news?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: The karmīs decided they want to have a meeting.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that GBC meeting.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: No, no. My karmī friends, on the 19th in New York.

Prabhupāda: Oh, your business.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: They always decide on perfect timing.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. I shall prefer to see the Trans-India first, because they will give some publicity to our movement.

Conversation After Interview with Religious Editor, Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Salary? Yes. He was getting in America six hundred. (laughs) Getting double.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: And he will get a lot more and more. He will get a lot more. And he is..., we have our regular programs, he brings people from business, we all bring people, and the prasādam and chanting and lecture. It's very nice.

Prabhupāda: And so Nandarāṇī is also working?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: She is happy. She, for a while she taught at a karmī school, from that school...

Prabhupāda: She has got experience.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, she's very good.

Prabhupāda: Both of them are very intelligent. And Nandarāṇī is more intelligent than her husband. (laughs) I know that.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: I find that he is very intelligent, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Ah, Dayānanda.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes.

Prabhupāda: He is intelligent, but Nandarāṇī is still more intelligent. (laughs) I know that. Both of them are intelligent, but this girl appears to be more intelligent. That's all right. What about their daughters?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: They are there. They're very happy.

Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Oh, bookmark. So, it is another step forward. (laughs) Pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi-grāma (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126).

Bhagavān: The saṅkīrtana devotees, they are distributing always in dhoti.

Prabhupāda: Like him.

Bhagavān: They do not wear the karmī clothes.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Bhagavān: And they are having nice success also. They go into the offices, into the.... They are walking everywhere. Even the hospitals they are going.

Prabhupāda: There is no obstruction.

Bhagavān: No. (laughs) They are very determined.

Jayatīrtha: In France the atmosphere is very nice.

Prabhupāda: So why your cloth is so dirty?

Pṛthu-putra: I just traveled with him.

Prabhupāda: For a sannyāsī it is very nice. So people may not dislike it, but for a sannyāsī this is very nice.

Bhagavān: He's doing very nicely, Pṛthu-putra. He's having many preaching engagements.

Prabhupāda: Very good. That is wanted. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam amalaṁ purāṇam. So when the whole lot will be delivered?

Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto.

Jayatīrtha Prabhupāda: Yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam...

Jayatīrtha: Yāvat kriyās tāvad idam mano vai karmātmakam yena śarīra-bandhaḥ

Prabhupāda: So long one will remain a karmī, he'll get body. And what body? There is no guarantee. That will depend on your karma. But you'll get a body. So read it. It is very important. Again.

Jayatīrtha: "As long as one does not inquire about the spiritual values of life, one is defeated and subjected to miseries arising from ignorance."

Prabhupāda: Everything, whatever he's doing—the so-called nonsense advancement of civilization is defeat, simply defeat. What is your advancement? You are completely under the control of the laws of material nature. What is your progress? So yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. Only this hodgepodge. They are wasting so much time going to the Mars, spending so much money. But there is no inquiry, ātma-tattvam: "What I am? What is my goal of life?"

Bhagavān: They are zero.

Prabhupāda: Such zero. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2). Ātma-tattva, there is no...

Bhagavān: They are thinking that they have become advanced because they have become atheists. They have let religion go. They say that religion was a...

Prabhupāda: But what you have gained out of it, rascal? Now, there is no water. Bring water and become atheist. Why do you see: "When there will be water?" Bring water by scientific method. Why you are looking on the sky: "Whether there is any cloud."

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: He said that breaking the bricks is the business. I said the sooner you give up this, then you are happy. Karmīs, the karmīs want this, breaking the bricks. They think this is civilization. Brick, more brick, and bring more bricks and break it. That is civilization.

Hari-śauri: And then when we tell them that this is not your business, they ask us, "Why aren't you breaking bricks?"

Prabhupāda: You are punished. You are being punished in this way. Actually, I saw in New York, big, big building, they are breaking, again, another skyscraper. "No, I have business. Breaking the bricks," that's all. They think this is very good business. Once constructed, again break it. As child, children, they make a sand house and break it again. This is the occupation.

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

Jayatīrtha: Not only that, people aren't inclined to work very hard. The farmers are not very enthusiastic to work very hard, because they work very hard, but they have to give all the fruit away. So because they are karmīs, they want the fruit. The state is taking the fruit; therefore they don't want to work.

Prabhupāda: Why they shall work?

Jayatīrtha: They have no incentive.

Prabhupāda: "I'll work and you'll enjoy." Why shall they work? That is natural tendency. This can be possible only for Kṛṣṇa. "I'll work; Kṛṣṇa will enjoy." That's all. That is only possible in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Jayatīrtha: That's a fact. Therefore it's the only practical communism.

Prabhupāda: "I shall fight, give my all best, and Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied." So that.... Arjuna for his personal, he did not..., decline, but when he saw that "Kṛṣṇa wants it? All right." That is kṛṣṇa-prema. "Never mind I shall be aggrieved by killing my kinsmen, but Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied. That's all right." This is Kṛṣṇa philosophy. We cannot find this philosophy in the material world that "I shall work, and so many will be satisfied." That is not possible. "If I work, I must be satisfied." So these communists, they will work according to.... Everyone will show that "I have no capacity." So the production will reduce. And they'll have to beg.

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhagavān: This unemployment is to their discredit. In the karmis' society the unemployment is a great discredit, now people sitting idle.

Prabhupāda: There will be great catastrophe. The unemployment will increase, and people will be very dissatisfied with the.... Especially the black. They will create havoc. This is artificial. They are increasing the production of tire tube and lid. So who will purchase? Nobody lives in the tire tube. Therefore unemployment. So therefore reduce production. You cannot go on increasing. You very much trade this tire tube and so many artificial.... It is very artificial civilization. If you produce.... (break) Here so far milk and food grains are concerned, whatever sumptuously you want to eat, eat. Balance you can keep stock. The milk can be converted into ghee, then keep stock, and the grains can be stocked. Whenever you like, you just grind the grains and have to eat, halava.

Bhagavān: It's very ecstatic.

Prabhupāda: If you have got excess, you can distribute free prasadam. "Come on." You make friends.

Bhagavān: You gave one argument before about this meat-eating. You say, "If you want to eat meat, that is all right. Why you don't wait until the animal dies naturally?"

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: This is all Kṛṣṇa's property. So long He likes, we shall remain. That's all. I know that. (laughs) Just like we entered Bhaktivedanta Manor without any arrangement. I know that so long Kṛṣṇa will like, we shall... If Kṛṣṇa says "Go away," we shall go away, what is that? Why so much legal implication? Everywhere, although we have got big, big buildings, I don't think we own it. It is Kṛṣṇa's. So long He likes, we shall remain there, if He doesn't like, we shall go away. What is this? Why you should stress on the proprietorship?

Hari-śauri: No, I was just thinking in terms of the karmīs.

Prabhupāda: They are not proprietor.

Harikeśa: Would you like that tomatoes and cucumber and...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, bring. Mānasa deho geho jo kichu mor arpiluṅ tuwā pade nanda-kiśora. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. "Whatever I have got, it is all Yours." Ānukūlyasya saṅkalpa. Whatever is favorable, take it, that's all. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇa-anuśīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā. This is? What is that, apple?

Devotee (1): Apple, cucumber. The apples are not fresh, Śrīla Prabhupāda, from the tree, because those apples you saw yesterday were just for cooking. They're very sour...

Bhagavān: They have eating apples. We have eating apples.

Devotee (1): They're sour, too sour. Just for cooking.

Bhagavān: That's fresh cucumber? And our tomato?

Devotee (1): They're a little warm because they've been in the sun all day.

Bhagavān: The peas were good last night?

Prabhupāda: Very good, but I could not digest them. That is my fault, but, oh, it was so nice palatable. Chick peas, chick peas, grow fresh. Eat very nicely, keep strong, drink milk, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Bas. Don't depend on this outside work and then gradually become debauch, thief, rogues, prostitutes. Is that civilization? They cannot imagine that the modern civilization can go without all these things. Do they not? Slaughterhouse, brothel, cheating, diplomacy, roguery, drinking—without this, no civilization. We are quite opposed.

Morning Walk at Niavaran Park -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Every one of us, we are attached to the body, and on account of being attached to the body the material activities are going on. These motorcars are running, karmīs are going here and there, what is the purpose? To maintain the road? Divasa śarīra-sāje. Miche nida-baśe gelo re rāti divasa śarīra-sāje. The body is given rest at night to revive, and daytime the activities for the matter of maintaining the body. But despite my all endeavor to maintain this body, it will not stay. It will give up my company and I'll have to accept another. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So Bali Mahārāja says "What is the use of such endeavor?" Therefore big, big saintly persons, they do not care for the body. Lie down anywhere. But they are very serious about spiritual advancement. And people in general, they are interested in maintaining the body. It is not that we should be neglectful to the body. That example is also there. Just like we require fruits and flowers. So if we neglect the tree, there will be no fruits and flower. If we cut the tree, it will dry up and there will be no fruits and flowers. The fruits and flowers, this human body, the fruits and flowers mean self-realization. Bali Mahārāja analyzes the family. He says family means rogues and thieves. Whatever you want, they'll take away. The pickpocket takes from your pocket and he becomes a criminal, and when the wife takes thousand dollars from your pocket, you do not consider her to be criminal. You laugh, "Oh, you have taken the money?" "Yes, I've taken." The business is a pickpocket. But in one case we say "criminal," and one case we say "friend." The business is the same. Svajanākhya-dasyu. Actually thieves and rogues, but we have named them "relatives."

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: We must be clean.

Nandarāṇī: Clean, yes.

Prabhupāda: The dress is not important-cleanliness.

Hari-śauri: You can dress in karmī clothes and still be very strict Vaiṣṇava.

Nandarāṇī: Here we wear mostly street clothes, like the Iranians, suits and dresses.

Prabhupāda: Just like he is not well dressed, but anyone who will see, he'll immediately find he's cleansed. That is wanted. Cleansed dress. Dress is not important.

Nandarāṇī: I think Atreya Ṛṣi wants two places, one like a home and one like a temple. Those devotees who want to...

Prabhupāda: One can become clean with simply loincloth. It doesn't require dress. (break) ...Indian or here?

Hari-śauri: Which climate is better. (laughter)

Nandarāṇī: Well, I like India.

Prabhupāda: Come on.

Parivrājakācārya: We've got a couple of guests.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: We have got three platforms, generally. Material platform divided into two-gross and subtle, and there is spiritual platform. The body is material platform, divided into two, gross and subtle. And then if you are fortunate enough to come to the spiritual platform, then your life is successful. So the karmīs generally... Just like we see in the city, they are all busy, working very hard. They are on the gross material platform. And then next class, just like scientist, poet, philosopher, they are in the subtle platform. And above them, there are persons who are simply interested in spiritual understanding. They are on the spiritual platform. So according to the platform, there are thoughts and activities also. Your question is what is about these so many things. So first of all you have to understand in which platform he is situated. Then his activities are ascertained. If you are in the material platform, doing some business, making some profit, and if you bring there question—"What is this, use of material profit, this body is temporary, why I am..."—then your material activities will be diminished.(?) So we have to understand first of all what is our actual objective. And then if we stand in that platform, then our life is successful.

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Why should you work? If you have to forget, why should you take such nonsense things that you have to forget again? Why not chant Hare Kṛṣṇa? Even the child does not forget. He's chanting. Take such things that you'll enjoy. The more you do not forget, you more enjoy. Why should you take up something that you have to forget? This is rascal.

Nava-yauvana: Karmīs cannot understand.

Prabhupāda: There is a story like this. A man is sitting. His friend came, "Why you are sitting idly?" "What shall I do?" "Work." "Why shall I work?" "You'll get money." "What shall I do with the money?" "Then you'll be able to sit peacefully and eat." "I'm doing that. I'm already doing that." I'm peacefully sitting and eating. Why shall I go and work? If that is the ultimate end, that I shall peacefully sit down and eat, I am doing that. Why shall I go and work?

Harikeśa: What about when it gets cold?

Prabhupāda: That you again "if." You are bringing some condition. For the present time, sitting very peacefully and haven't got to work. Why you are insisting me to work? If this is the goal, to sit peacefully and eat, I'm doing that.

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: I don't go out. We do not go to the movies or to the restaurant. It is different taste. Therefore it is calculated three kinds of men-sāttvika, rājasika, tāmasika-their tendencies are different.

Nava-yauvana: Karmīs can't understand why a devotee doesn't want to go to the cinema.

Prabhupāda: So many things—they do not smoke, they do not drink, they do not go to cinema.

Hari-śauri: We're as good as dead. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: What happens with all these people who, like for example, myself, I can't live on a farm?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Harikeśa: I can't live on a farm.

Prabhupāda: That does not make you, what is called, unfit. You can do something like that.

Room Conversation -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: We require all these things. The more they become civilized, the more they require medicine and all these things. So you decide. I am so far giving instruction and help, and that will be available.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: We have been, Śrīla Prabhupāda, talking and thinking about it amongst ourselves, that now that we have this propensity to be in business, instead of working for karmīs we should have our own business.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: So it's much better... If devotees are in charge, then the karmīs can work for us and they can become devotees. But if the karmīs are in charge...

Prabhupāda: We are. Our society, it is not that we are simply sannyāsīs. We have got brahmacārīs, we have got gṛhasthas. So gṛhasthas should be provided with some profession, business, so that they can earn very nicely. That is good idea.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: He has so much propensity to become engaged in these things, I have the propensity, all the devotees have the propensity. We can...

Prabhupāda: So you make your formula, I mean to say, plan and scheme. So far how to do it, that instruction I give.

Room Conversation -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes, taste will be... (laughter)

Harikeśa: No one will use it.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is...

Harikeśa: I saw they make this other toothpaste with sucrose. The second biggest ingredient is sucrose on the karmī toothpaste.

Prabhupāda: Sucrose? What is that sucrose?

Harikeśa: Sucrose, you know, sucrose and glucose and lactose, those sugars. They use sugar powder, sucrose.

Prabhupāda: Oh, sucrose, yes. Saccharin and sucrose. Saccharin is sugar product.

Harikeśa: We tried that too the first time, with those...

Prabhupāda: No, that is no good.

Harikeśa: That was not good.

Prabhupāda: Salt is available very easily.

Harikeśa: And they use hard soap powder in these powdered ones. We tried that first with the hard soap powder? They use that also.

Prabhupāda: No, it is it (indistinct), we shouldn't do it. Only simple three things, that's all. That is good. That has come out.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because they're asses. Asses, they want... Even in Tehran, I saw the ass. This is Indian civilization. Loaded.

Indian man: With pots or something.

Prabhupāda: Right. Some tons of things. The ass does not know why he is carrying so much load. Therefore mūḍha. What for he is carrying? What is his profit? He does not know. But he's carrying so much. "I am big industrialist. I have got so much business." What for you are doing industry? That he does not know. Ass. Karmīs are described as asses. They do not know what is the interest.

Indian man (2): How does it matter what people call Kṛṣṇa, whether they call Bhagavān or Viṣṇu or what, Kṛṣṇa? If it is just only one God. We are talking removing Kṛṣṇa from Gītā but putting Bhagavān there instead of Kṛṣṇa. How does it matter?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa said, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). "There is no more superior authority than Me."

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: It is Kṛṣṇa's desire. Nobody is useless. I was also useless. I could not do in India alone anything. This is... Again this example (laughs). Two useless makes useful. Intelligence alone cannot work. Money is required. One man was challenged, "You have no intelligence." So he said, "Yes." He was searching these..."No, why you are searching here?" "No, here is intelligence. If here is money, then my intelligence can work. Otherwise what is the use of intelligence?" But he was searching here," Whether I have got intelligence?" Simply intelligence... In industry also: land labor capital, organization, four things. Simple capital will not do. Simple organization will not do. A man may have very good brain power, organization, but if he has no money-useless. So four things required: land, labor, capital, organization. That minister in Raṅganātha (?), he is inclined to spend huge income of Tirupati, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But he is bound up by other colleagues. They are applying the money. So he's willing to call all the ministers if I can convince them. I shall try it. Just... In the Bhagavad-gītā, that is, yajñārthe karma. Everyone is karmī. So the karmīs, the village cultivators or big men industrialists, they are going to Tirupati. Whatever then can spare, they are offering. That is yajñārthe. If this money is taken and again if it is brought into karmī, then it is misleading. Karmīs are giving them. Just like people are giving us money. They are karmīs. But because they are giving us and we are engaging the money in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so the money is fully utilized. But if this money again taken and again to the karmīs....

Jayapatākā: Without any spiritual work.

Prabhupāda: Then it is a farce. His purpose is served, but one who is misleading the..., he becomes criminal.

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So they work, originally it began for prize. (laughs) Otherwise, these karmīs, why they shall waste their time? They wanted some prize.

Hari-śauri: Sometimes they print their names in the next issue. "The last week's winner was..."

Prabhupāda: "Winner." That means prize.

Maṇihāra: There's no mention of any reward. Just...

Prabhupāda: Anything of these four prohibited regulations should not do. Yatra pāpaś catur-vidhā, four kinds of pāpa—sinful activities. From the very beginning, because I introduced this, no catur-vidhā, four kinds of pāpa. Therefore our Society is now so respected. From the very beginning we are following to keep these principles in forefront. This is appreciated by anyone. Even he is himself a debauch, he'll appreciate. It is so nice thing. A person may be a big drunkard, but he'll never like to see his son drunkard. That is natural.

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Gargamuni: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He'll not be a karmī. From the beginning he could understand. How did he understand?

Gargamuni: Because his tendencies were never in the business field. He was an intellectual. He used to read a lot and he was interested in religion.

Prabhupāda: From the very beginning.

Gargamuni: Yes. In college he took courses in religion.

Prabhupāda: And when he first came to me he expressed that "I was searching this institution. Now I'll join." And he was getting at that time four hundred dollars?

Gargamuni: Yes. A school teacher.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So he was paying everything almost, keeping little money. And then he brought him.

Hari-śauri: I have a picture of you with your hair. I'll show you. I have a picture of Gargamuni Swami when he still had hair and karmī clothes.

Gargamuni: "Shakespearean locks." Prabhupāda used to call me that.

Hari-śauri: Hair in this picture's a bit cropped up, but you had a bead bag then.

Gargamuni: Oh, yeah, then that was later.

Prabhupāda: You were selling Back to Godhead on the street?

Gargamuni: Yes, in the pushcart.

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Anyone who comes, he must be given prasāda.

Maṇihāra: ...what is the benefit they get exactly? There have been so many concoctions: "Oh, they will take human birth," "they will take this..." What is the actual benefit that a karmī will get when he takes prasāda?

Prabhupāda: Prasāda means the mercy of Kṛṣṇa.

Maṇihāra: Mercy.

Prabhupāda: By eating you are getting mercy. Kṛṣṇa baḍo doyāmoy koribāre jihvā jay swa-prasād-anna dilo bhāi. Swa-prasād-anna dilo bhāi. Sei prasāda anna pāo rādhā-kṛṣṇa-guṇa gāo preme ḍāko caitanya-nitāi.

Maṇihāra: 'Cause some devotees, they are saying...

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa baḍo doyāmoy. Because we want eating, so He is giving His mercy through eating. Eating nobody will refuse. So by eating he is being favored by Kṛṣṇa. This is the process. You understand Bengali? Kṛṣṇa baḍo doyāmoy, He's very merciful. Koribāre jihvā jay. We are accustomed to eat, go to the restaurant, go to the hotel, go to here and there, at home and so on. Simply eating, eating. So this is jihvā lampaṭa. Prostitution of the tongue. Just like a woman prostitute is not satisfied with one man. Similarly, our tongue is like a prostitute. It is not satisfied with simple foods. Sometimes here, sometimes there, sometimes on the street, sometimes on the restaurant, sometimes a hotel. Regular prostitution. It is called tongue prostitution. There are prostitution of three things: prostitution of the tongue, prostitution of the belly, and prostitution of the genital. Three kinds of. Udara-upastha-vegam. Jihvā-udara-upastha-vegam (NOI 1). Straight line. So to stop this prostitution is to control the tongue. The tongue prostitution means he wants to eat varieties of foodstuff. Kṛṣṇa is so merciful, "All right, you eat varieties of prasāda." Then tongue prostitution is controlled and naturally the belly and the genital controlled. Kṛṣṇa baḍo doyāmoy koribāre jihvā jay. To own victory over the tongue, He has given varieties... Therefore all nice things should be offered to Kṛṣṇa and then take prasāda. They will be benefited.

Meeting with Endowments Commissioner -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Therefore, Bhagavān concludes at the end, "You rascal, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66)." This is dharma. To surrender to the Lord. That is dharma. In another place, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). Without this, all cheating. If there is no bhakti, surrender to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, all these kind of dharmas, they're all cheating. Therefore in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2). On this, Śrīdhara Svāmī has commented, atra mokṣa vañca api nirastam.(?) Dharma artha kāma mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90). So according to this principle, they're all cheating. So-called religious system, artha, economic development, sense gratification. Just like that, we have created so many social dharmas. Saṁsāra-dharma, gṛhastha-dharma, this dharma, that dharma. So in that way, they're all-cheating. Therefore, our request is that yajñārthe karmaṇaḥ anyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). In the Bālajī's temple, mostly poor cultivators. I have seen, they go. And they want to give something to the Lord. Yajñārthe. So the karmīs, they're advised, yat karoṣi kuruṣva tad mad arpaṇam. "Give me." So these karmīs, somehow or other, by their great fortune, they're giving something to the Lord. Yajñārthe. That money should not be utilized for any other purpose. That is our message. It must be utilized for the purpose to fulfill the mission of the Lord. Mission of the Lord is sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66). How people can be trained up to give up all these nonsensical type of dharma, and how to become a devotee of Lord. For this purpose this money should be spent. Then it will be all right.

Meeting with Endowments Commissioner -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: We have no objection, because our principle is kṛṣṇa-bhakti nitya-siddha. So Kṛṣṇa bhakti is there in everyone. So leper and non-leper. Just like our Vivekananda, he took up daridra-nārāyaṇa. This is an absurd proposition. Nārāyaṇa is never daridra. But if you put this argument, that Nārāyaṇa is everywhere, so if Nārāyaṇa is everywhere, why you take up only daridra-nārāyaṇa? Why not dhanī-nārāyaṇa also? If you have got so broad vision that Nārāyaṇa is everywhere, therefore we see everyone, so why you particularly take the daridra-nārāyaṇa? Similarly, Kṛṣṇa bhakti is everywhere. It is in the leper or non-leper. So why should we take particularly the lepers? So that is outwardly a social service that they are taking care of the leper. So if that vision it will not be right. Kṛṣṇa bhakti even requires, even a karmī like big, big owner of factories, he's more diseased than the leper. Because he has no Kṛṣṇa bhakti. So we have to take care of the leper and the richest man also if he has no Kṛṣṇa bhakti.

Meeting with Endowments Commissioner -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So this is my request, that our money... There is nothing our money. Everything Kṛṣṇa's. But we are thinking. Because we are asuric. So asuras think like that. Just like Kaṁsa, Hiraṇyakaśipu. "Ha!" Rāvaṇa. "Ha! What is Rāma?" That is asura's. They think like that, and that is asuric. But otherwise īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore yajña is advised. The sooner you hand over Kṛṣṇa's property to Kṛṣṇa, it is good for you.

Minister: Swamiji we are karmī-yogīs. We start the day with surrendering to God and asking Him to show us the way. Beyond that, I don't know what our duty...

Prabhupāda: But a karma-yogī, why you should take Kṛṣṇa's money for karma?

Minister: For what? (indistinct) That is for...

Prabhupāda: That is the...

Minister: It is not used. As you have correctly said, that way only it is used.

Prabhupāda: No, the first thing is that if you decide that Kṛṣṇa's money should be utilized for Kṛṣṇa's mission, so Kṛṣṇa's mission is this, that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). You have to bring them to the sense of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And there is a process. You cannot manufacture that process. You have to take the process from Kṛṣṇa. That Kṛṣṇa says man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Four things. You have to teach people how he can think of Kṛṣṇa, man-manā. Then the mission is there.

Meeting with Endowments Commissioner -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Minister: It is not used. As you have correctly said, that way only it is used.

Prabhupāda: No, the first thing is that if you decide that Kṛṣṇa's money should be utilized for Kṛṣṇa's mission, so Kṛṣṇa's mission is this, that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). You have to bring them to the sense of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And there is a process. You cannot manufacture that process. You have to take the process from Kṛṣṇa. That Kṛṣṇa says man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Four things. You have to teach people how he can think of Kṛṣṇa, man-manā. Then the mission is there. That is Kṛṣṇa also. Kṛṣṇa says,

satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ

yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ

namasyantaś ca māṁ bhaktyā

nitya-yuktā upāsate

(BG 9.14)

You have to teach them like that. Satataṁ kīrtayanto mām. As we are doing. We're always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. But if you manufacture in your own way, that you can do. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ na sa siddhim avāpnoti (BG 16.23). That will never be successful. If you have to execute the mission of Kṛṣṇa, you have to take instruction of Kṛṣṇa and do it rigidly. Then you'll be successful. Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's mission is that one must know Kṛṣṇa and surrender to Him. This is mission. Kṛṣṇa does not say that by karma-yoga one can understand Him. Kṛṣṇa says bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). You cannot say "We are karma-yogīs." Karma-yogī means the third-class. He's karmī and little mixed up with bhakti. Adulterated. Jñāna-yogī, he's not a bhakta. He's jñānī, but just to bring him gradually, a little bhakti. You see? And real bhakti is anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam (Brs. 1.1.11). When it will be tintless of any karma and jñāna, then it is pure bhakti. That is Kṛṣṇa's mission.

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That should be. Sleeping is waste of time. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **, we have to conquer over eating and sleeping and mating.

Hari-śauri: Just the opposite to the karmīs. They want to increase their eating. (break)

Prabhupāda: Formerly, when I was in Rādhā-Dāmodara temple, there was a khol manufacturer here. Is he here still? He supplied me khol very nice, very big. This khol was taken to Germany or...

Akśayananda: What was his name?

Prabhupāda: I forgot.

Akśayananda: There is one man here.

Prabhupāda: In here?

Akśayananda: One man is here, but I don't know if it's the same one.

Prabhupāda: Can you call him?

Akśayananda: Yes. I think he's just a repairman though.

Prabhupāda: Whatever he may be. Yes. We must have very good khol. You have no good khol.

Akśayananda: I had one under repair. I had two under repair with him. But he takes a long time. I am waiting now for repair.

Prabhupāda: So you can call him.

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: The mṛdaṅgas are in there all day long. Any karmī that comes in, they beat the drum and mess around. The little kids go in and they do the same thing. I've seen them. You should take them out of the temple. Let them be there for kīrtana and then take them away and store them in your room. There's no kartālas now either because everybody steals them.

Prabhupāda: These two rooms can be used for keeping.

Akśayananda: Kartālas are locked away every time and the drums were done... That was done until they were broken.

Hari-śauri: Or you can just put them in that tourist room. Or in the pūjārī room.

Akśayananda: Yeah, I'll arrange for that.

Prabhupāda: Everything depends on organized management. Give some...

Akśayananda: Shall I put... Some gentlemen, some bābājīs, are coming now, some metas.

Prabhupāda: Aiye, aiye. Betiye.

Akśayananda: May I help bota? (?)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Betiye. (end)

Room Conversation -- November 15, 1976, Vrndavana:

Guest: Just like the usual was doing something at home.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Don't say it is temple. That's all. (chuckles) Kill law by law. (indistinct) ...and safest position is that you don't say it is a temple.

Devotee: Well actually we're not coming on to them like we are, you know, Hare Kṛṣṇas or anything like that. We are going in karmi clothes.

Prabhupāda: No, no, there are many communities, gṛhastha, in our Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. We don't say...

Devotee: According to the escrow we say that we want to build like some sort of a church and the zoning laws for that particular area... Now if you want to rezone, the only thing that's allowed to rezone for is for churches and temples, they have it written.

Prabhupāda: You can take help from Detroit. He knows very well. That was rezoned. You did it.

Jagadīśa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He knows everything. That was a residential quarter. Now we have made it a temple.

Room Conversation -- November 25, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: No, Prabhupāda's approved this method for attracting karmīs.

Akṣayānanda: Yes, not for devotees.

Hari-śauri: But the thing is once you become a devotee, we don't need...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Akṣayānanda: That kind of music also reminds us of past bad activities, sinful activities.

Hari-śauri: The question is whether should it be played in the temple or not?

Prabhupāda: Temple may not be played. What is use of playing in the temple?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I know from practical experience, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that... I just played this Alex's record. It's all current pop music with English philosophy wording. And all the brahmacārīs were so agitated, they came to my room to listen and they were, you know, really making fun of it like it was a pop...

Akṣayānanda: Because that style of music it reminds us of the nightclubs or whatever it might be.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I said it is better not to make these records.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Like this room, yes. And as far as possible, induce them to come and live here.

Mahāṁśa: Yes. Yes, that can be done. But family attachment... You see, these people, they have also family attachment, just like karmīs. So they are not so willing to... Because their whole family... The whole village is like one family. It's like one family. They are all related to each other. And they can stay. They stay. Many of them stay here overnight.

Prabhupāda: Naturally everyone wants to stay at his own place. "Home sweet home." "There is no place like home." That's a fact. That is psychology. They will like to stay there. But if they have got facility to live here with family they may come.

Mahāṁśa: I was thinking we can make their house just like our house. If they are living right on our border, we can go to their house, tell them how to make an altar and make them live like how we are living. Let them stay there but let them live a good Kṛṣṇa conscious life.

Prabhupāda: They'll come gradually, not immediately. Immediately, the psychology is, they have got attachment for their house. It may be worse house, but still, their attachment... That is natural. Long, long ago, when I was child practically, I went with my father in the village. So one man from the village was serving us. So my father: "This boy is nice. So why not take him to Calcutta?" So one day he was absent. It was dropping and... So I went in the interior of the village and I saw that his house was broken, there was no roof, and rain was falling and he was sitting, covering with a cloth. Then I told him that "Why not come with us in Calcutta? We shall give you nice place, nice food." So his answer was, nā bābu kanceri jabo nā (?): "Bābujī, I cannot go out of my home." That was his home. (laughter)

Room Conversation -- December 20, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So to understand Kṛṣṇa is not so easy job. First of all one has to become siddha. And not only you become siddha, yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3), even one is siddha it is very difficult for him to understand-tattvataḥ. What Kṛṣṇa means, to understand, it is not so easy job. And again He said, He explains that bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). Only the devotees can understand. It is not the business of the karmīs, jñānīs, yogis. He has strictly specified-bhaktyā. Bhakto 'si priyo 'si. When He wanted to instruct Arjuna... Arjuna was a householder, a kṣatriya, not even a brāhmaṇa, not a Vedantist. The question may be why He selected Arjuna to preach Bhagavad-gītā which is so (indistinct) and (indistinct). That Kṛṣṇa says bhakto 'si. "Without being bhakta nobody can understand Me." And again He confirms, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). If we interpret Bhagavad-gītā in a different way, karma, jñāna, yoga, you'll never get Kṛṣṇa. So these things are there. So to understand Bhagavad-gītā one has to become a devotee, pure devotee. Not because he's learned scholar, he's a big politician or a big yogi or big jñānī. Because He plainly says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). If you do not understand Kṛṣṇa, tattvataḥ, what He is, then it is natural he'll interpret in his way, his own philosophy. That is not (indistinct). If you take jñāna, yoga, karma, or other.... But it is not possible. You have to receive it through the paramparā system. The paramparā system is clear. As Arjuna understood, you have to take it. And if you preach, that will be effective.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Indian man: That little knowledge I possess about Gītā starts with Third Chapter. With the knowledge made there, and Kṛṣṇa coming down to bhakti-yoga step by step, karma-yoga, and saying everything, "This is the supreme, this is the supreme, this is the supreme."

Prabhupāda: Not supreme. He says this is of the person, different ways of thinking. But everywhere He is stressing bhakti. Just like generally people are karmī. Karmīs. They are working hard. And he has made his plan. He has made his plan that, "In this way, I shall be happy." So throughout the whole world, the beginning from animals, lower than the man, and then men, different types of men... So manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi, every one of them, he is planning or he is thinking in different ways. So the animals, they cannot understand the master's answer. But in the human being, they are according to the mind, mental concoction and planning, there are four classes of men. One class is called karmī. They are thinking that by working hard and trying to find out my own way of happiness, they will be happy. This is called karmī. Without any knowledge, they are simply working. They are actually like the animals. The animals, the dog, is jumping, a few miles he is jumping. He is thinking that "By jumping I shall be happy." Or for the time being he may happy by jumping. And sometimes thinking otherwise. So karmīs, they do not know what is the actual aim of life. Out of many millions of persons, mostly they are karmīs. They do not know what is the actual aim of life. But they are devising different plans, that I shall be happy in this way." This is called karmī. He does not take the standard way of happiness. Then the next elevated person is jñānī. He thinks, ponders, that "I have worked so hard, but still I could not become happy." The jñānī. He searches out philosophically. Then next class, yogi. Yogi concentrates the mind to think over, "What is my problem? Why I am not happy? How he can become happy?" He is trying to, very soberly, to understand. Yoga means controlling the senses, and the master of the senses is the mind. So he, trying to make the mind concentrated on the fact, he is yogi. And then the next stage is... If he is yogi, then there are different types of yoga system. But when he comes to the point that "I am not master. There is one master, controller. So master, whatever master orders, I have to execute that. That is my real happiness." Bhakta. So karmī, jñānī, yogi, and bhakta. So out of these four classes of men, the three classes means karmī, jñānī and yogi, they are restless. Because they actually did not find out what is the solution. One after another, there are different classes, there are classification. One is better than the other. That is another thing. But none of them... They are still misled. A karmī, he is thinking that "I am poor man. If I become rich man, I will be happy." He is thinking in that way. Jñānī is thinking that "Poor and rich doesn't matter. I am Brahman. I am spirit soul.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Maharastrians are very neat and clean. Upper class, they are very. (break) ...karmī.

Mr. Malhotra: Good man.

Prabhupāda: Good man from worldly point of view, but from spiritual point of view, in the lowest stage. Karmī is the lowest stage. Then jñānī, then yogi, then bhakta.

Mr. Malhotra: More a politician.

Prabhupāda: Yes, karmī means this how to enjoy this world. Whole life they have struggled how to enjoy this, how to enjoy myself, how to allow my men to enjoy. This is karmī platform. Everyone is doing that. Everyone is working hard for himself, for his family, and expand the family, for society, and expand the society, for the nation. Here is karmī plan. Gandhi, Birla they are all... There is no question of spiritual life.

Mr. Malhotra: Now this is the Kṛṣṇā River. You just see how small it is, and how big it becomes later on. In the rainy season this road is closed because this all water comes up, you know. Now it is just a small rivulet. This is Kṛṣṇā river. And it comes just opposite our place, from where it starts, from the mountain. Here is the place called Haya (?). This was also one of the biggest Sanskrit University in the older time like that of Teksasila. And Sarnatha, near Sarnatha, what is that place? Not Sarnatha, up in Bihar, that was also very big university, no?

Prabhupāda: Oh, Taksila.

Mr. Malhotra: No Taksila was in Punjab, that side. In Bengal, Bihar, that...

Prabhupāda: Tarbanga.

Room Conversation -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...some covering.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, this will be very good. This will really make us look different from others. We're giving kuśa grass, linen, and robe, beads...

Prabhupāda: And they will understand that they are actually doing something.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And they will see, because these karmīs, they look for these tangible differences.

Prabhupāda: At least twice taking bath and then chanting, dancing and so on.

Hari-śauri: Yes. They're coming for some... Just to...

Prabhupāda: They want something. So this is the bona fide method.

Jagadīśa: Are you having tours where they'll go to Rādhā-kuṇḍa?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. That is during the rest of the time.

Hari-śauri: There's a very nice thing about this program, is that you can guarantee everyone who comes is going to be interested.

Prabhupāda: So I have given to you three. Now you jointly do immediately. The artist is there. Get painting. That's... That's all right.

Hari-śauri: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)

Room Conversation with Fate -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Rādhā-vallabha: This is for the theistic exhibition. This is the copy for the sound track, and when the karmīs first walk in, this is the sound track that will play.

Prabhupāda: No, no. You keep here.

Rādhā-vallabha: So this is like the introduction for the entire thing. Then it comes up to the point when they see the diorama of yourself, and there's a certain part where they want to have you thinking.

Prabhupāda: But here diorama should be explained in the local language.

Rādhā-vallabha: Here in India. This is for the American one.

Prabhupāda: Oh, American. That's all right.

Rādhā-vallabha: So would you like me to read it to you?

Prabhupāda: Hm, hm.

Rādhā-vallabha: This is the very beginning. "Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the First American Theistic Exhibition. Since time immemorial we have inquired about our origin. We have tried to understand our place in the universe, the nature of birth and death, free will and predestination, time, God, and nature. However, even after countless years of philosophical study and comprehensive research these questions still remain for the most part a mystery. The words you are about to hear were written five thousand years ago in a language no longer spoken called Sanskrit."

Prabhupāda: No longer spoken? Why?

Rādhā-vallabha: I was just wondering about that myself. No longer spoken on the earth?

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is spoken in India. There are many scholars who speak Sanskrit. In Europe also.

Morning Walk -- December 28, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Private house. This is organized function you ask them a place to show our books. If they deny then we don't go. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)

Rādhā-vallabha: This one parade in Los Angeles, the Rose Bowl, they distribute thousands of books on this one day. What happens is all the karmīs get out there, sometimes the night before, at least very, very early in the morning. They line both sides of the road.

Prabhupāda: To see?

Rādhā-vallabha: To see yes. Approximately a million people. About a million people, they're just lining both sides of the road and the street is empty before the parade. So this year we're going to have the gurukula boys do a kīrtana and go right up the road. So one million people will see the saṅkīrtana party.

Guru dāsa: And then it will be on television.

Rādhā-vallabha: It will probably be on television.

Hari-śauri: They have a similar parade in Melbourne like that called a Moomba. Three-quarters of a million people come for it and the whole city closes down. And they line up and down the main road and then they have a parade of floats. So they invited that we could put a float in so Bali Mardana said he would try and get the ratha cart in. Three-quarters of a million people seeing Lord Jagannātha.

Guru dāsa: Why don't you do that in Los Angeles? (end)

Room Conversation -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Therefore Bhāgavata has criticized all so-called religion.

Dr. Patel: One patient of mine Sardar Patel, he's a old (indistinct) from Hindus and Muslim. And (indistinct) killing of their...

Prabhupāda: Muslims are also restricted... (break) ...for some purpose. Therefore they are called karmīs. Actually, it is for satisfying Viṣṇu. Without Viṣṇu's satisfaction nothing can be done. So those who are desiring some material grants, they used to perform this ritualistic ceremonies. It is not for the devotee.

Dr. Patel: For devotee, Kṛṣṇa has said, "I am yajña, and I am also hutam, and I am also performer of yajña."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because he gives the intelligence. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). Unless He gives smṛti, he cannot chant the mantra. "Therefore actually I am performer."

Dr. Patel: Ahaṁ kratur ahaṁ yajñaḥ...

Prabhupāda: Therefore He says "I am performer. If I give him instruction, he does something, so he is not doing. I am doing. I say, 'Do like this,' and he does like that, then he's not performer, I am performer." So whatever mantra they are chanting, if Kṛṣṇa does not give him intelligence, he cannot do that. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). Everyone, whatever we are doing, it is being supplied, the intelligence, the everything, but according to my desires. I cannot do anything independent. Just like we are constructing, practically, with the sanction of the municipality, the sanction of the government. Independently I cannot do. Similarly, we cannot anything without sanction of God. But that sanction is ye yathā māṁ prapadyante (BG 4.11). I insist, "God give me this facility, give me this facility." "All right. You do it at your risk." But God says, that "You don't do this." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). "What I say, you do. Then you'll be happy. What I dictate you do. But you are dictating Me. Because you are my son, what can I do? All right. Do it."

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate. If one ceases his nonsense, then param, the Supreme... Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate. When you have got better things, then you give up naturally the rubbish. So anything material, that is rubbish. Karma, jñāna, yoga, they're all material. Karma, jñāna, yoga. Even up to so-called yogas, they're all material.

Yogi Amrit Desai: You consider that as a material. Only bhakti-yoga is more... That's true.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Karma... What is the difference between the karmīs and yogis? Yogis want some siddhis, and karmīs want some material profit. Both of them are in want. They are not free from want. Is it not?

Yogi Amrit Desai: No, it depends on the yogi. My guru is a yogi, but he never demonstrated any power ever.

Prabhupāda: No, no... Yogi, he wants siddhi. Yogis... Of course, nowadays yogis, they have no siddhis.

Yogi Amrit Desai: (laughs) That's right. Even they don't have that.

Prabhupāda: They simply say, "yogi." But the real yogi means they have got siddhis, aṣṭa-siddhi: aṇimā, laghimā, mahimā, prāpti, īśitā, vaśitā. These are siddhis. Yogis, if they are real yogi, then I can put you into the room, lock it, and you can come out. That is yogi, not by simply showing some posture.

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Soul. Spiritual body is now covered with the material body. So anything material, that will not exist. So body is finished; then he has to find new body. Just like the dress is old; it is finished, you take another dress. And when you haven't got to take dress, or this material body, and you remain in your spiritual body, that is called mukti. That can be achieved only in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām (BG 9.25). If you practice Kṛṣṇa consciousness then it is possible; otherwise not. Tyaktvā deham. Everyone has to give up because this body will be old, and one has to give it up. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9), he doesn't accept any more material body. Then? What does he...? He's finished? No, he's not finished. Mām eti. He becomes eligible to go back home back to Godhead, and there he dances with Kṛṣṇa. That is real mukti. Muktir hitvā anyathā rūpaṁ sva-rūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ. Anyathā rūpam. Now this rūpa is not spiritual, it is material. And mukti means when he gives up this material body and no more accepts any material body, he is transferred to the spiritual world to play with Kṛṣṇa, to dance with Kṛṣṇa, to talk with Kṛṣṇa. That is real... Paramaṁ siddhi. Mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). (break) And so long one is the material things, he... The lowest stage is the karmīs, the little higher stage, jñānī, and little higher stage, yogi. And the highest stage? Bhakti-yogī.

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So where is jñāna? Ajñāna.

Yogi Amrit Desai: And it can at the most increase the convenience on the material plane.

Prabhupāda: Jñāna, real jñāna, is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Find out. Etaj jñānam iti proktam ajñānaṁ yad ato 'nyathā. What is jñāna, that is stated. But where is jñāna? Everyone is ajñāna. General people, they're karmīs and, little more, jñānīs. But jñāna is not complete unless he knows the Supreme Lord.

Yogi Amrit Desai: Unless he has realized.

Prabhupāda: Not realized, no. Just like we are talking personally. This is...

Jagadīśa: Amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam, ācāryopāsanaṁ śaucam... (BG 13.8).

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is ācāryopāsanam. That is required. But these yogis, jñānīs, karmīs, they have no ācārya. They are self-made. Just like Dr. Russer.(?). He's self-made. So what he will do? Now he's caught up. He's in the trap. He's not a scientific man, but he presented himself as very scientific, so now he's caught up.

Yogi Amrit Desai: Right. You found it right away.

Jagadīśa: There's an index.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Go on.

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Is the hell for them. What is this nonsense? Who will understand this? Huh? Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate. And heaven, tridaśa-pūrākāśa-puṣpāyate. Heavenly planets, they are will of the wisp. Phantasmagoria. Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate tridaśa-pūrākāśa-puṣpāyate durdāntendriya-kāla-sarpa-paṭalī. Karmī, jñānī... Jñānī wants kaivalya and karmī wants heavenly happiness. And the yogi, yogi wants to control the senses. So he says that "Yes, we know the senses are very powerful." Durdāntendriya-kāla-sarpa-paṭalī. Indriya, it is just like snake. If you play with a snake you do not know at any moment death is there by biting. So although these indriyas are like snakes, kāla-sarpa, venomous serpent, but protkhāta-daṁṣṭrāyate. We have... What is called? Extricated?

Girirāja: Extracted

Prabhupāda: Extracted the fangs. The fangs if they are taken away, it may do like useless. Similarly, for a devotee the indriyas are dangerous. But because devotee, hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa. they have engaged their indriyas in the service of the Lord, the fangs are taken out. Durdāntendriya-kāla-sarpa-paṭalī protkhāta-daṁṣṭrāyate viśvaṁ pūrṇa-sukhāyate. The whole universe for them is very happy. Everyone is it is very unhappy. For them it is very happy. Because he does not see anything which is not suitable for Kṛṣṇa's service. Viśvaṁ pūrṇa-sukhāyate. Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate tridaśa-pūrākāśa-puṣpāyate durdānta indriya-kāla-sarpa-paṭalī protkhāta-daṁṣṭrāyate viśvaṁ pūrṇa-sukhāyate vidhi-mahendrādiś ca kīṭāyate(Caitanya-candrāmṛta 5). And the post of vidhi, means Brahmā and Mahendra... What is this? Kīṭāyate. It is just like...

Dr. Patel: Bug.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is going on...

Indian (1): ...through his karma.

Prabhupāda: ...that they are karmīs, they are working to go to the heavenly planet. And what he'll do? What he will benefit?

Indian (1): Ārto jijñāsur arthārthī jñānī ca bharatarṣabha. In lakhs and lakhs, people there are one..., it is very difficult to find a jñānī.

Prabhupāda: No, jñānī... One can become jñānī in a moment, provided he wants. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). So jñānavān māṁ prapadyate. So if one surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, he's jñānavān. Otherwise he's a rascal. So if you don't teach how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then he remains a rascal. That's all.

Indian (1): It is our duty to teach, to educate the people.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is education, that "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Otherwise he's not education.

Indian (1): To guide them how to surrender the Almighty. That is our duty.

Prabhupāda: But he does not know what is Almighty. And Almighty is canvassing, and people are refusing. Almighty says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). So here is Almighty, but who is teaching that "Here is Almighty. Surrender to Him"?

Indian (1): That is asuri sampatti.

Prabhupāda: This is going on.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: No, that is right, sir. But there are...

Prabhupāda: Yes. So the gṛha-vrata... If we keep ourself gṛha-vrata, then either guru or personally or by sat-saṅga, nothing will help us. Matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha-vratānām. Why? Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Chewing the chewed. (break) Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśaya ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). If one is trying to be happy by material adjustment, that is durāśayā. It will never be.... (break) Yāvan na ghṛnita mahīyasāṁ pada-rājobhiṣekam. Yavan na ghrnita. Bhāgavata śloka, each word, each line, concentrated. Vyāsadeva's contribution, last thing; by Nārada's upadeśa. And this is the only means of anarthopaśamam. You have created anarthas, and human life is meant for arthadam. But.... Hare Kṛṣṇa. So therefore real Vedic civilization is that gradually we have to give up this gṛha-vrata position. At one time you must voluntarily give up. Although I do not like to give up, still, by the order of the śāstra, one has to give up. Pañcasordhvam vanam vrajet. Vrajet means compulsory. Just like we accept so many things compulsory, similarly, to give up family attachment after fiftieth year, that is compulsory. We therefore invite all the compulsory, what is called, renouncement. Of course, nobody can go to the forest. That is not possible. They are not trained up as a brahmacārī. So this Hare Kṛṣṇa Land—"Come on." All the vānaprasthas, they can live in this land or Vṛndāvana, Hyderabad, simply for bhagavad-bhajana and no other purpose, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ (Brs. 1.1.11), making all other purposes zero. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam (CC Madhya 19.167). Jñāna and karma, these are bondage. Karmī, jñānī, yogi—they are especially bewildered. They want something, but still they say that "I am now renounced." So long there is want, he cannot be renounced. Renounced means no more want. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi: "I am fully satisfied now. I don't want any..." Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. "I have got such a nice thing that I have no aspiration for getting any more." That is brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). Svamin kṛtartho 'smi. So this is Vedic civilization, that at a certain stage one should forget that "I belong to this family, I belong to this society, I belong to this nation, and so on," there are. Sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu. Sva-dhīḥ: "My own men, my kinsmen." This is sva-dhīḥ. And beginning from kalatrādiṣu. Kalatra means wife. Wife is the beginning of expansion. From wife, child; from child to grandchild; grandchild to great-grandchild; and so on, so on. Stri means "which increases." Kalatrādiṣu.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's all. So we are trying to do that. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). It will be accepted by the devotees, not the karmī, jñānī, yogis, no. Only bhaktas. Therefore mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati. So we have got two functions: first of all we are trying to make them bhakta, and then convincing him about this philosophy. Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. Without being bhakta, nobody will understand what is yoga. The beginning is bhakto 'si priyo 'si me rahasyam ekam uttamam: (BG 4.3) "Because, Arjuna, you are My bhakta, I'll explain to you. Otherwise it is lost." So without being a bhakta, nobody can understand Bhagavad-gītā. However he may say that "I am very staunch devotee. I am reader of...," he will misunderstand. So here Kṛṣṇa clearly says that "This is the most confidential knowledge. And without being bhakta, nobody will be able to understand." So the preacher has got two different businesses. One side, he has to make bhakta. The persons will... Because without being bhakta, he cannot understand. Then he teaches. So these two businesses going on in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. To become bhakta there is Deity—"Come here. Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ: Just think of Me: Just man-manā. And become a devotee." And naturally, if he comes to the temple, he'll offer some obeisances, he'll offer some flower, some fruit. Mad-yājī. Even a child will offer namaskara. In this way he becomes devotee. And then he understands. So we have got two functions. All over the world, whey we are opening these centers? Bhakto 'si—to make them bhakta. And they have become bhakta. And then you speak something about Kṛṣṇa. He'll learn it. So that is explained here, ya idaṁ paramam... Who will surrender? "Huh! I shall go to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. I shall surrender to my senses." Surrender he has to. He's not independent. But ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. Because he's rascal by ahaṅkāra, false ego, he does not accept Kṛṣṇa—"Huh! Why shall I accept Kṛṣṇa?" He will accept māyā. And the māyā, by pulling by the ear—"Come here. Sit down"—that I shall accept. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām... And that... But stop that force. That he does not do. "Better let māyā pull me by the ear, and whatever she likes, I shall do." But he'll not like to carry out the order of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is very confidential knowledge, to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. So anyone who tries for this business... That is Kṛṣṇa's desire, that "Try to make these rascals a devotee and convince him about the importance of Bhagavad-gītā." If you do this thing, ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati (Bg 18.68), then? What is next line?

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Who cares for Guruji? (laughs) Who cares for Guruji? They think that "Guruji is cheating you—I am cheating your Guruji. What is the wrong?" They think Guruji means cheater. Nowadays, Guruji means cheater. "So you are cheated by your Guruji, so let me cheat your Guruji." That's all. Sate satāṁ samācaret. If one is sat, cunning, you should be also cunning, more cunning. This is Cāṇakya Paṇḍita's advice, policy. Sate satāṁ samācaret. Very miserable condition in this age. Therefore the sane man should utilize the little opportunity of human life in the cent percent Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the proper utilization of life. Try to serve Kṛṣṇa cent percent. Bas. That is proper utilization. The so-called philanthropy, altruism, humanitarianism, this ism, that.... Bogus.... Not bogus-useless. It will not help. They are pious activities. So, Caitanya-caritāmṛta says, pious or impious, both of them are impediments to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So we are not interested with pious activities or impious even. We are interested how to serve Kṛṣṇa. Our philosophy is very difficult to understand. Suppose you are giving some medical relief, and if I say that "Why you should waste your time by giving medical relief? Why not give him relief from birth and death?" they'll laugh. Is it not? They'll laugh, that "What nonsense he's speaking? This man is suffering. He immediately requires." We don't say that "You don't give medical relief," but why do you forget the real business? That is our.... Vivekananda said, "What is the use of pouring water in tulasī? Better pour water in a eggplant saka. You'll get some eggplant." This is.... Vivekananda said. Eggplant is also a small tree, and tulasī... So if somebody is pouring water on a tulasī leaf for bhakti, he condemns him, "Why you are wasting time? Pour water on this eggplant. Tomorrow you'll get two." (laughs) This is karmī. "God is fictitious. God's service is another sentiment. Do something practical."

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Tilaka, dvādaśa-tilaka. You just go and learn. (break) What is that? (break) Otherwise there is no death. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Actually there is no death. This forgetfulness is death. We have forgotten: "Who was our father, who was our mother, where I was born?" That is death. And otherwise I am the soul, continuing. Just like in childhood so many things we did, but we have forgotten. The forgetfulness is death. The more one forgets, the more one is dead. Otherwise there is no death. Na jāyate na mriyate vā: "Never takes birth, never dies." Then what is death? Death is forgetfulness. So you can begin now. (break) ...big, big buildings, the same spirit as karmīs are doing. But this desire to construct very big building, when transferred for Kṛṣṇa, that is bhakti. So we have got this tendency, everyone, to possess money, to have very big buildings and so on, so on. You do it for Kṛṣṇa. Then it will be bhakti. Otherwise karma. And karma means to be bound up by the laws of nature. So? What is...? (break)

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Dr. Patel: Camels are used for plowing even in Gujarat.

Trivikrama: And they eat the thorny twigs.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is their food. Karmis, they are compared with the camels. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ samstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19).

Dr. Patel: I don't think, sir, there will be camels in Bengal because in Bengal is so many rivers.

Prabhupāda: No. No, there is no camel. And unless there is that thorny twig, they cannot live. That is their food.

Dr. Patel: In Gujarat you find these camels right at the Surat, south of the Gujarat. In north Gujarat they are very common. On the desert. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...Darjeeling we were hiring these ho.... (break)

Gurudāsa: (whispers) Tape always runs out on places like that. (Hari-śauri laughs)

Prabhupāda: Mules, I have seen, if they stop, you can beat like anything; still, it will not move.

Gurudāsa: Yes. "Stubborn as a mule" is a proverb in the West.

Prabhupāda: I have seen. The soldiers are beating with the butts of the gun—still (laughter) not going. So many varieties of life we had to pass through, and with great fortune we get this human form of body. And that also we waste in the same business—punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), misguided. Labdhvā sudurlabham idam bahu-sambhavānte (SB 11.9.29). After many, many births this human form—people do not understand. Sudurlabham. Durlabham means rare, and sudurlabham means still...

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Because if they remain free, they get young women free. That's rascal's man brain. That "You take freedom."

Dr. Patel: This is a third-class argument.

Prabhupāda: This is argument! This is argument. This is fact. These rascals keep these women unmarried to enjoy daily new, new young women, these karmīs, these rascals. There is club. There is club. These young women are paid for that topless, bottomless. You do not know.

Dr. Patel: No. I have never seen a girl naked. I refuse to...

Prabhupāda: I have... I know everything.

Haṁsadūta: Prabhupāda, you gave the example that what is the use of keeping a cow if you can get milk in the marketplace.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Cow-keeping is expensive.

Dr. Patel: Why keep a cow when milk is available. (laughs)

Trivikrama: It's a fact. The young men think like that.

Prabhupāda: They make pregnant and they go away. And this poor girl, either she has to kill the child or beg from the government, "Give me welfare; otherwise..." Is that freedom? These rascal woman...

Dr. Patel: This is freedom. Actually the government recognized...

Prabhupāda: Government means a set of rascals. But practical point of view the woman wants equal right. Equal rights they enjoy, and the woman becomes pregnant, and he goes away, the boy. And she has to kill the child or beg from the government. This is her freedom. And still, equal rights. Where equal right? The boy has gone away. You also go away? No. You'll have to carry the child. To get freedom you have to kill or you have to beg. And still she thinks, "I am free."

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Some reason anyābhilāṣitā. He has got other purpose, not the purpose of preaching Bhagavad-gītā. That is called anyābhilāṣa. So people are infested with anyābhilāṣa, everyone. Therefore he is living this material life. But that should be zero. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). That you have to... That is sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). If you have got other purposes within yourself, then you'll never understand Bhagavad-gītā. This is bhakti.

anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇanu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttama

(Brs. 1.1.11)

And Kṛṣṇa says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). You cannot understand Kṛṣṇa without bhakti. And this is bhakti, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ (CC Madhya 19.167). So they have got full of anyābhilāṣa, jñāna-karma, so they are not bhaktas; they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. They are talking nonsense. This is the position. Because they are not bhaktas-karmī, jñāni, yogi—they have got some purpose. Karmī is flatly that "We want this enjoyment." And jñānī, he says superficially that brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā: "The jagat is mithyā. So we don't want this jagat, but I want mukti, to become one with the Supreme." So that is also anyābhilāṣa. He does not know it. He's thinking that "I'm better than these karmīs. The karmīs have got anyābhilāṣa. So I have rejected that. Brahma-satya. I have taken to Brahman." But that is also anyābhilāṣa because he wants to become one with the Brahman. Subtle. And yogis, they also want mystic power to show magic. So he also anyābhilāṣitā-pūrṇa. So none of them are fit to understand Bhagavad-gītā. So Bhagavad-gītā will be understood by him who is anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ (Brs. 1.1.11). But none of these karmīs, jñānis, yogis, they are anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ (CC Madhya 19.167). They're anyābhilāṣitā-pūrṇam. They cannot understand Bhagavad-gītā. It is not possible. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said that "You are My very confidential friend. I am talking to you the most confidential part of knowledge. Give up all this nonsense. You simply surrender." Guhyad guhyata—what is that? Find out. Guhyatamam. Bhakto 'si priyo 'si me (BG 4.3).

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Rāmeśvara: So that means that in the beginning we may be very powerful in government, but still, the masses of people will be karmīs still.

Prabhupāda: No. You can introduce in such a way that they will become devotees. Suppose in big, big factories we shall introduce this prasāda distribution and chanting. They'll immediately be popular. Everything will be... Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12).

Jagadīśa: In order for us to get power, by that time the illumination and knowledge of Kṛṣṇa consciousness will be widespread.

Rāmeśvara: That's what I'm wondering. I was thinking that it wouldn't be. There would be...

Jagadīśa: Otherwise how can we get through? What is the use of having one politician?

Rāmeśvara: Many revolutions have been victorious with a very small minority of people behind them because they're so well organized. Russia, Germany, all these revolutions.

Prabhupāda: That's a fact.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: You said in that article in the BTG that women's liberation means that they get more exploited.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The giving them bluff that "You become liberated" means "We shall exploit you, young girls." This is the idea behind. Because the karmīs, they want sex, young girls, and they get energy to work. The Europeans, Americans, they work so hard. They get energy from new, new girls. This is psychology, Therefore they work like hogs and dogs. Dog civilization. Hog civilization. Because the hog has no restriction, either mother, sister, or anyone, "Come on." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājām..., kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This civilization is for the hogs, to take energy by sex with mother, sister, and anyone, and work hard. It is stated in the Bhāgavata. I have not manufactured. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). And here is the civilization. Tapo divyam. Be brahmacārī, undergo austerities and rectify your, this conditioned life, birth and death. This is human civilization. Why you are under birth and death? One life remain brahmacārī and solve all the question. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Teach them, these rascals—they are accusing, "brainwashing"—that this is civilization. It is not civilization to work hard like hogs and dogs and have sex enjoyment. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- February 10, 1977, Mayapura:

Jayapatākā: You are actually the only one preaching there. You're the only one who has showed any preaching capacity.

Prabhupāda: No self-interest—that is the difference. I wanted to serve. That is the difference. But now it is clear. None of them, they want to serve. They want to make one establishment so that they can eat and sleep. Of course, there is some preaching, but if, there is, preaching is the purpose, why they should separate? That is not the purpose. The purpose is that "I must have some separate establishment as ordinary karmīs they have got their separate establishment." Preaching is not that, neither they can preach with enviousness. So, what to do?

Jayapatākā: In any case, he has not yet accepted, and it will take sometime to build your house.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is not... On principle, I am talking on the principle. That is not yet. It will take some, at least two, three years or at least one year, but this is the position. This Dāmodara Mahārāja you have already experience about... (laughs)

Bhavānanda: Yes. And he is like an ant compared to them.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Not to mix with ordinary men, aratir jana, general public. Just like this, our place—only devotion. This is vivikta, aloof from this world. We have no other business except Kṛṣṇa consc..., bhakti. And aratir jana-saṁsadi, no, mean, association with ordinary person, no association. We can go and talk of some..., for our own benefit or Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise we have no business with them. Noncooperation. We go to the public for preaching, not to associate with them. To give them association, so they may be benefited. Either he may be prime minister or this or that, we have no business with them. But for our purpose we go. Big, big karmīs, life member. So we have no personal concern, but for their benefit we go there. Their hard-earned money, if something is spent for this purpose, he'll be benefited. This is our... Otherwise we have no business with them. Aratir jana-saṁsadi. Then?

Pradyumna:

adhyātma-jñāna-nityatvaṁ

tattva-jñānārtha-darśanam

etaj jñānam...

Prabhupāda: Etaj jñānam: these are knowledge. This is education. Then?

Pradyumna: Ajñānaṁ yad ato 'nyathā.

Prabhupāda: Anything apart from this, they're all rascaldom. Bas. That is again confirmed by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Vidyā-madhye kṛṣṇa... What is that?

Satsvarūpa: Kon vidyā vidyā-madhye sāra, rāya kahe-kṛṣṇa-bhakti vinā vidyā nāhi āra.

Prabhupāda: Āra. So these things will be accepted by kṛṣṇa-bhakta, etaj jñānam. So whatever Kṛṣṇa has said, that is knowledge, vidyā. Everything nonsense. Therefore so boldly we say, "All rascaldom." Never mind. That's a fact. That is a fact. Anyone... Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Anyone who is not devotee of Kṛṣṇa, bhagavad-bhakta-useless. Jaḍa-bidyā jato māyāra vaibhava, jībake karaye gādhā. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has said. By this so-called material education, one is already gādhā, go-khara, dehātma-buddhi, and he becomes still more, another staunch gādhā. Now, if you speak the straight truth they'll be angry. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi. But this is fact.

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There was an underlying question of whether the magazine... Brahmānanda Mahārāja had mentioned that your original idea was that this magazine was meant for the devotees to write into the magazine and the spiritual master would read the articles and thus see how the devotees were making advancement, and the magazine was for the devotees to read each other's articles. Generally how the one..., the kind of the present-day idea behind the magazine is that it is for the common man outside. It is not so much for the devotee as much as for the karmīs. And therefore...

Prabhupāda: No, what is the purpose? To distribute to the karmīs?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The purpose is to somehow connect the karmīs and give them a favorable opinion of our society, a general idea and favorable opinion of our movement. But the criticism on the part of some of the senior devotees now is that in doing this they have compromised our philosophy and our position.

Brahmānanda: Instead of quoting from some śāstra, they quote from a mundane book.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All the books. There's no more Sanskrit used.

Prabhupāda: So who has done this? You are asking me?

Brahmānanda: Rāmeśvara Swami's in charge.

Hari-śauri: Another example's like that they put a recipe for halavā in the magazine, two-page spread in color.

Prabhupāda: So the Rāmeśvara should not be in charge. The Satsvarūpa should be in charge.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: They have got that tendency.

Rāmeśvara: Jayatīrtha used the same argument in England. He said that the people do not like the idea that this is coming from America.

Prabhupāda: That you discuss. What I can say?

Brahmānanda: Should we have karmī photographs in our magazines?

Rāmeśvara: What do you mean?

Brahmānanda: Like in the English issue they have three photographs of torture.

Prabhupāda: That is not good.

Rāmeśvara: Torture? What do you mean?

Brahmānanda: They show a man being burned by fire, a man being pulled his body apart, a man hanging.

Prabhupāda: No, that is not...

Brahmānanda: Three photographs.

Rāmeśvara: But not all karmī photographs are bad. Sometimes we use karmī...

Brahmānanda: And now our magazine has no pictures of Kṛṣṇa. The last English edition had not one picture of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: That's not good.

Conversation with Yadubara (after seeing film) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Nice. So how it is reacting amongst the public?

Yadubara: Well, the people seem to like it, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: They will like it.

Yadubara: I was surprised, but the karmīs, their attention is held throughout the film. They seem to enjoy it very much. And several people have said that "It is very clear now that we're not the body."

Prabhupāda: It will be a great service if you can educate. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). To keep them as animals is a great sin. Our Svarūpa Dāmodara has got this film?

Yadubara: No.

Prabhupāda: Not yet.

Yadubara: It just came out.

Prabhupāda: Oh. We can produce more detailed film later on.

Yadubara: You asked us to make that one point, that we're not the body.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Yadubara: In Māyāpur last year you asked me to make that one point, that we're not the body. So we tried to do that only.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. That can be, and this..., done that.

Morning Talk -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But if he's not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he may rise up to that position by endeavor. Then he will fall down. And I have given this example, Nixon and Indira Gandhi. This is factual. To come to take the post of prime minister, to become the president, is not easy job. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa, great hardship. Similarly, the Māyāvādīs, they also undergo severe austerities to become one with the Supreme, impersonalists. Any... I have given the... Karmī, jñānī, yogi, politicians, and everyone—everyone has got some aim. Many rich men, they commit suicide. So this is possi... This is the ultimate result of nondevotee. He may rise up by endeavor to certain position as he imagined, "This is the best position." Just like we are also trying to occupy the best position, to become associate of Kṛṣṇa, to live with devotees. We have got also some aim, and the nondevotees, they have also got aim. But the devotees will never fall down, while the nondevotee will fall down. And if devotee circumstantially, by chance, falls down—not like them-he'll be again picked up by Kṛṣṇa. This is the science, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. A devotee's position is certain. Now, take for example my position. For ordinary karmī to possess so many properties all over the world and so many other things, money and everything, if karmī had to do it, how much hardship he had to go. And actually they are doing. Is it possible for one's life to acquire so many?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, even Birla doesn't have.

Prabhupāda: I have given this example, our court case, that the case would have been continued for years, but one day... Even though there was some difficulty, it is finished. So our enemies, they tried to block our march, but we shall kick on their head and progress our end—if we stick to our principles. These things... I have discussed this nicely. How do you think?

Morning Talk -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Is that civilization? Human being should be calm and quiet, peaceful and advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There must be four divisions, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, everything. Everything is lost. From the very morning, "Where is bread? Where is bread?" We have no fixed income, but we are so pure(?). We are maintaining big establishment. Who has got so big establishment? And what is our asset? Asset is only Kṛṣṇa. For ordinary karmīs to maintain such house and such big establishment...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not possible. No one can do it.

Prabhupāda: He'll have insomnia, cannot sleep at night. What would have been the cost of the establishment? So many men are working.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What to speak of worldwide.

Prabhupāda: This is one only.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One of one hundred.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Evening Darsana -- May 12, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: More than. Prakṛṣṭa-rūpeṇa mattaḥ. Mattaḥ means mad, drunkard, and pramattaḥ means more than mad. So generally people, they have become mad after sense enjoyment. Everyone is busy for sense enjoyment. This is material life. And when they are fed up, no more available, so they become tyāgī-frustration that "Grapes are sour." The jackal jumped over to get the grapes, but when he could not obtain it, then he rejects, "Ah, what is use of the grapes? It is sour." So karmīs, they are pramattaḥ, mad after enjoying, and jñānīs, being fed up, they say, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā: "The world is useless." So this is going on. The karmīs, they want to enjoy this material world, and the jñānīs, they are little advanced. They are... They are fed up, rather. They want to enjoy by becoming one with the Supreme. So there is want. The karmīs want to enjoy this world, and the jñānīs want also. That is demand, mukti. Mukti means to become one with the Supreme Brahman. And the yogis, they want siddhi, aṣṭa-siddhi, aṇimā, laghimā, prāpti, īśitā... They also want. Therefore our Vaiṣṇava poet, Kavirāja Gosvāmī, he says, bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmī sakali aśānta: "Those who are after something—either enjoyment of this material world or enjoyment of spiritually becoming one or to have some siddhis—they want something, so they cannot be happy." Because there is demand, "I want this." Maybe I want better thing than you, but I want. I am in need. So therefore those who are in need, they cannot be happy. Bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmī sakali aśānta, kṛṣṇa-bhakta niṣkāma (CC Madhya 19.149). Kṛṣṇa-bhakta doesn't want anything. Ataeva śānta. So he is... He is satisfied. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce: (CC Madhya 22.42) "I don't want. I am fully satisfied." Dhruva Mahārāja, he went to the forest, underwent very severe austerity, and when Lord Viṣṇu appeared before him—"Take benediction, whatever you like"—he said, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce: "I have no more demand. I am fully satisfied." So this is the teaching. If we want to be fully satisfied, without any demand for sense gratification, then we become happy, and that is available in full Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is... Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye. We don't want. People want money and many followers, nice wife, but Caitanya Mahāprabhu refuses.

Evening Darsana -- May 12, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: People are mad after sense gratification in different ways, so Ṛṣabhadeva says, "No, no, no, this is not good. You have already obtained a material body as a result of your past karma, and you are suffering." Body means suffering. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). "So you have already got this body, and you are suffering. You are again trying to get another body?" Na sādhu manye: "This is not good." Our whole Vedic civilization is punar janma jayāya, to conquer over punar janma. And here Kṛṣṇa gives the very simple formula, janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti (BG 4.9). If we simply understand what is Kṛṣṇa... And what is Kṛṣṇa, for that purpose, we are writing so many books. The scholars, they are appreciating. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa is available very easily. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). But if you want to understand Kṛṣṇa tattvataḥ, then we have got so many books. You can read and try to understand Kṛṣṇa. And when you understand kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28), then your life is successful. And karmīs are warned, na sādhu manye: "This sense gratification is not good." Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur deha upapatti (SB 3.31.1). Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). This karma means mṛtyu-saṁsāra, again and again. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to change this body. You do not know what kind of body you are going to get. Therefore eight..., 8,400,000 different forms of body. Any one of them I can get. So if I lose the opportunity of human form of life and be engaged for some years, say, ten years, twenty years, fifty years, as very big man, and by my action, if I become a dog next life, then my life is spoiled. We should not spoil our life. We should fully utilize. And how to utilize fully, they are all given, direction, in the śāstra. Bhagavad-gītā is the preliminary understanding, and if we understand Bhagavad-gītā, understand Kṛṣṇa at least little bit... That is the end of instruction, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). If we have got faith that what Kṛṣṇa says is right... Sarva-dharmān parityajya. That is explained by Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī, that faith, śraddhā... Śraddhā he has explained.

Evening Darsana -- May 14, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: You cannot count how many there are. Now these, some of the jīvas, not all of them... Majority of them, they live in the spiritual world, just like majority of the population of the state, they live outside the prison house. Prison house means some of the citizens who are criminals, they are put into the jail. Similarly, these living entities who are criminals, means who have rebelled against the order of God, they are sent here, in this material world. So they are suffering one term after another. Therefore here is the chance, ayaṁ dehaḥ nṛloke. In the form of human body you can get out of it. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9). This is chance. And therefore Ṛṣabhadeva says, "My dear boys, you don't spoil your life." "I am working and enjoying. I am not spoiling." "No, this kind of working is done by the cats and hogs." Kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye: (SB 5.5.1) "For sense gratification the hogs and dogs, they also work very hard and then enjoy senses. So this body is not meant for that purpose." You are thinking that you are working so hard, karmī, and big, big skyscraper building and nice motorcar, nice roads. Electricity you have discovered. You are very advanced. Ṛṣabhadeva says, "This kind of advancement..." (break)...motorcar. "Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" Therefore He warns, "No, no, no, no. This is not civilization." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān (SB 5.5.1). "So much hard labor for sense gratification? This is not good." Then? What it is meant for? Tapo divyam. So human life is meant for tapasya, self-realization, ātma-śuddhi. Ātmā can be purified from the contamination of the material modes of nature by tapasya. That is real civilization. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvam. Your existence will be purified. Now your existence is not purified. Therefore you have to accept birth and death, old age and disease. It is not purified. So here is the chance to purify your existence. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvaṁ yasmād brahma-saukhyam anantam. Brahman means the greatest, unlimited. You are hankering after happiness, but if you purify your existence, then you get unlimited happiness of Brahman.

Srila Prabhupada Vigil -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This Nitāi, as soon as he mixed with some pseudo devotee, fell down. Rascal. He's searching after guru. And where is now?

Rāmeśvara: In America.

Prabhupāda: What does he do?

Rāmeśvara: Some karmī job to get money.

Prabhupāda: Just see. (laughs) And he's asking my blessings for a guru. He's a fanatic. (break) ...know that story, punar muṣako bhava. (laughter)

Jayatīrtha: Yes. That's a very suitable story for this case.

Prabhupāda: "Again become a mouse." That's all. "I made you tiger. Now you want to eat me? All right, you become again a mouse." (break) That is called dṛḍha-vrata, firm determination. Hm. Go on. (break) Doesn't create any... That is bhakti life. Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Bas. So where is the difficulty? The things are already there. I have to repeat it only. Why shall I create, make hodgepodge everything? But that they do not know. Bhaktivedanta has no difficulty. The things are already there. Simply you have to present them as it is. That's all. You become Vaiṣṇava. Where is the difficulty? And as soon as you change, become over-intelligent, spoiled, everything spoiled. That is the... (recording grows very faint, then inaudible) (break) What arrangement is...? What arrangement is made? (break) And if they do not repeat, they fell down(?). You have to bring. You cannot satisfy everyone. That is not possible. Here Nārada Muni is blaming Vyāsadeva, "You have not repeated." And here is a scholar, and he has repeated. The actual position is repetition. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). That is the position. So we shall go on doing that.

Morning Talk -- June 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Why gradually? That means the background is foolish civilization, that's all. It is simple thing, very simple. Child is becoming boy. The body has changed. Where is the difficulty? How you can defy this argument? (break) ...means disciple. Still if it is so, that means a dog's obstinate rascal. Immediately. Or animal. Animal cannot be convinced.

Upendra: They... The karmīs, they made one movie where the whole world was monkeys, "Planet of the Apes," and one human being came...

Prabhupāda: Rascal, they were monkeys. Now they have become human being, that change of position.

Upendra: They wouldn't...

Prabhupāda: You have to accept a change of body. Change of bodies you have to accept from your argument. You were monkeys; now you are human being. This is change of body.

Śatadhanya: Evolution means change of body.

Prabhupāda: That is real evolution. What do they know of change of body? Therefore I say that, that you people, your brain is filled up with stool. You require thorough washing. You are not civilized. What is meaning of civilization? Improve animal life to civilized life. A dog can walk on the street naked; a man cannot. That is civilization. Otherwise dog is eating; you are eating. He's sleeping; you are sleeping. This is civilization. (indistinct) Culture. You have no knowledge of culture. Real knowledge is this: the body is there and changing; the soul is there, eternal. Then you become on the platform of God. If you remain in the same ignorance, then where is your advancement of civilization? If you cannot understand the simple truth, then where is your civilization?

Śatadhanya: They have no civilization.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But I dared to approach them because I am confident that what I am presenting, it is solid. There is no mistake. It is solid. I never said, "May be, may not be." No. Life cannot come from matter. Never. And the knowledge distribution takes some time. They have distributed ignorance by taking time. We have to distribute knowledge by taking time. False knowledge... Simply promise, future hope... Durāśayā. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum durāśayā bahir-artha-māninaḥ, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānā... (SB 7.5.31). The society remains in darkness, misled by blind men. We want to save the human society from this catastrophe. This is our noble mission. Why they should remain in darkness? Karmīs, jñānīs, yogis.... That should be. Just like some professor in Bangalore, they are trying to expose this Sai Baba. Why? Because they are scientific men, they are protesting, "Why this rascal should keep so many men in darkness? The same rascal. By false propaganda he is appearing mukta, God. What about Sai Baba? We don't see anything.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm!

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He also included a letter... You know the former president was Mr. Ford. So he got a letter from Mr. Ford. It says, "Dear Mr. Jacupko"—that's his karmī name—"I wish to thank you for sending me a copy of Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. You were most kind to think of me, and I am deeply grateful for your friendship. With appreciation and best wishes, sincerely, Gerald R. Ford." It's got the US eagle on the letterhead.

Prabhupāda: You can use this letter.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, he says that "I heard..." This is from ex-president Ford. There was some discussion that perhaps he would be a candidate in the 1980 Presidential election here. Anyway, he's an important man. Then he lists some of the people who have gotten your Bhagavad-gītā as well as other small book in Russian or other languages or prasādam. "Mr. Igor Orligalik, Deputy Director (gives list of many Eastern Bloc professors and directors) You see, he keeps a file on all these people, so if ever we go to these countries, we know which people got our books, and these are all highly placed people, very prominent people. Good work. One of these lunches is very expensive-$7.50 per person. (reads:) "Los Angeles World Affairs Council cordially invites you to attend a special luncheon discussion meeting with the USSR-USA Society Delegation to the Soviet Union." This is one such invitation that's put out by these people. Every one of these people who spoke there, all these delegates, he gave them Bhagavad-gītās, the Russian Easy Journey and a calendar. (break) (kīrtana)

Prabhupāda: ...slaughter, bigger slaughter. This is my practical experience. Father hates. (break) We saw lots of people.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When we read from the Fifth Canto the facility of life is so much better on other planets, anyway, so they can't even begin to imitate that other higher material planets, what to speak of the spiritual...

Prabhupāda: They do. Karmīs do that. They want to go there after death. Therefore karma-kāṇḍa. By ritualistic ceremonies they want to be promoted. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ (BG 14.18). By improving the sattva-guṇa, you can go to higher planetary system.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Would that be considered more intelligent than the gross...

Prabhupāda: No. No. Because after all, you have to die. Kṣīṇe puṇye punar martya-lokaṁ viśanti. Again you have to come down.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We have to tell them that "We cannot completely negate the scientific advancement. We cannot simply say that what you are all doing is nonsense." At the same time, we can bring out that "Yes, you are doing, making an attempt to find a solution or comfortable situation. It's not possible," that "There must be something beyond. It's not enough."

Prabhupāda: And that is yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. That is the first citing. There are two kinds of occupational duty. The one is inferior, going down, and other is superior, go back to home.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Satisfaction of the soul, Śrīla Prabhupāda just mentioned.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Talk -- June 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And they want that. Vajpayee wanted.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right, they want a list.

Prabhupāda: Surendra Kumar told me.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So Gopāla, he's definitely going to do it. I mean, he told me he's doing that, that that's part of the application. He told me the different items. He will get their karmī names, spiritual names, passport number. He's aware of having to do that.

Prabhupāda: In America there are many thousands of Indians, permanent resident.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The thing is that at this point in America there is such a thing as permanent residency. It's a law. But in India there's no such thing existing at this time.

Prabhupāda: That I know, but...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They have to create this. That is the difficulty. They have to...

Prabhupāda: No, that means incompetent government.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Incompetent government. America knows, "If there is a useful man, why should we not give?" I know, in Montreal there was a black man, what is called? Consulate?

Devotee (1): We have no limes.

Conversations -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: As I told you last time, in the Western countries, so long I am in the temple, I am safe. And as soon as I go out of the temple, it is hell. And implica..., as they are attached. How they are doing?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's one thing I noticed when I came to India. I felt, only in India, it's the only place that I could go out of the temple, and still I felt it wasn't so hellish. I actually felt like that. You know, just like when we were living in Kamal Nagar in Delhi. There were many karmīs around, but still... Most of them... Many were vegetarians. Many, I could hear pūjā.

Prabhupāda: No, there is some practical life.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Many devotees like to come to India to serve here in our movement because of that. The general culture still...

Śatadhanya: The atmosphere is conducive for spiritual life.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And here in Vṛndāvana it is fully transcendental.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Especially this Raman Reti. Every place here is an aśrama.

Prabhupāda: So just try to help them, help them, introduce them, and give everything. That is my request. As far as possible, I have such a big plan. Who'll merit the ideas? We never...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura uses the word "revive," that if Kṛṣṇa consciousness is revived, then one pure soul can learn.

Prabhupāda: That is paramparā. Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma is there. Guru Mahārāja is present.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. I have been taking rest in... (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are all rascals and they're all crazy.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The karmīs. They don't know what is what. They don't know what is good for them. If they have their choice, they won't immediately talk with a devotee. But we are like the doctors. We don't consider what the patient says. Somehow we have to administer the medicine because we know it will be good for them. There's a letter that just came from Satsvarūpa.

Prabhupāda: Have my keys...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And... Should I bring it? Actually I was going to read it to you later when you asked for some new... He says, "Dear Śrīla Prabhupāda, please accept my humble obeisances at your lotus feet." (break) He says, "In addition to my duties, everything is going nicely." (break)

Prabhupāda: (coughs) These two ślokas are guide in this connection, in Bhāgavata.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Now we shall go.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So I'll be over by... (break)

Prabhupāda: Human form of body or in the form of this insect. And karmīs, they're trying to improve their... (microphone moving) That is their ignorance.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They never get tired of trying.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They think by changing the body... (microphone moving) ...demigod's... That is called mṛtyu-saṁsāra. The facility is in that you have to die, you have to take again birth and again begin the same tasting, āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam. No improvement of taste but improvement of the container. If you go by bullock cart and if you go by motorcar, the transport is the same. But we are thinking, "Now we have improved scientific." That's all. First of all improve that you'll not die. Because you are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So where is that improvement? That improvement is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9).

Room Conversation during lunchtime -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: "Transcendental meditation." What meditation? Fifteen minutes—finished.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say it helps you sleep better. They claim that Transcendental Meditation helps you sleep more soundly.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. And life is meant for sleeping?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To the Western karmīs, sleep is a luxury, 'cause they have no peace of mind. So anything that can give them sleep, they like 'cause they can't get to sleep. They try pills, so many things. Of course, we don't sleep much either, but that is by choice. I tried one of those balls of bread. In America we call them "cannonballs."

Prabhupāda: Which ball?

Upendra: Lakta.

Prabhupāda: Oh. How do you like?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very tasteful. In America sometimes they put either butter or honey on them also to give it a little sweet taste.

Upendra: But they cook them in the oven, and these are cooked on cow dung. These are cooked on the cow dung, khandi, khandi.(?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was wondering how you were able to chew them.

Prabhupāda: No, I could not.

Room Conversation during lunchtime -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Last year in Washington I was there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: July Fourth. Oh, yes, you were there. They had a fireworks demonstration, and you saw a parade, I think.

Upendra: Bicentennial?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, that was a big one, two-hundredth anniversary of the independence. The karmīs are very happy about these holidays like this July Fourth, but they are not as happy as devotees. We are even happier, because we know that all the karmīs will buy even more books on these days.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everything he's preparing is very nectarine. I think this year, Christmastime, if we again put on our Santa Claus suits, eventually people will only give to our Santa Clauses. At first there was a reaction, last year. And this year there may be again a reaction, but after a few years no one will want to give to the other Santa Clauses. We will completely take over the Santa Claus costume. I don't think we should give it up.

Prabhupāda: Why? It is our choice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right.

Prabhupāda: If I dress myself in a particular way, who can check it? They cannot check. I like this dress. That's all. That is not violation of law.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, very good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "...which in this project will inevitably increase constantly as we take on more and more ambitious undertakings."

Prabhupāda: From Bhāgavatam you can make hundreds and thousands of doll exhibits. Each stanza of Bhāgavata will give you ideas of dolls. The karmīs can be exhibited... Dharmasya hy āpavargyasya (SB 1.2.9). This śloka can be explained, what is the meaning of religion, by doll exhibition. When you do it I shall give you ideas how to...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "By your mercy, now there is a very concentrated effort on behalf of Rāmeśvara Swami, Ambarīṣa dāsa and myself to plan and build an impressive theistic exhibition in Washington, D.C...."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was the reason that I suggested to Abhirāma Prabhu that he should make his business in Bombay. Actually the gṛhasthas have no desire to live independent of the temples. Just like Mādhavānanda, he's got an apartment now just near the temple so that he can attend maṅgala-ārati and the other functions.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless these things are continued, the karmīs' poison will spoil them. He can do independent business; there is no harm. But must be connected with the devotional service.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Just like Abhirāma constructed that house. That's all right. He is within the campus. There is no harm. And now if he goes away after so much training, advancement, if they are lost, then that's a great loss for the Society. With such... With great difficulty we make one Vaiṣṇava. And again, if he goes like Śyāmasundara, then it is great loss. The whole idea is to give up attachment for material world and increase attachment for Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection. Now, according to one's position, gradually... But this is the aim. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). Nivṛtti.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, no. There is chance, I said.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: The karmīs' association is very contaminous. Asat-saṅgī. So for him the best thing will be to take a room in Bombay. Let him do business.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm sure now that... I'll convey all...

Prabhupāda: Gṛhastha should not be dependent on Society. At the same time, he should not be independent of the Society. (laughs) This is the position. Because Society cannot take charge of a family. There will be so many number of families. How it is possible? At the same time, if they remain independently of the Society, without touch, then the karmīs' poison will infect.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It seems like the solution is to get apartments near the temple, get room near the temple.

Prabhupāda: Why not in the temple? Why? If he pays, what is wrong?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, in a place like Bombay where we have so many buildings, in the temple. But sometimes... Just like in America, if there's only one building with only...

Prabhupāda: No, America also... Just like Los Angeles we have got.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, that's in Hare Kṛṣṇa Land.

Prabhupāda: No, anywhere. If they are doing independent business, let them do that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So in the New York...

Prabhupāda: Karmīs' concession, sex.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In the New York they can live families together? In that building, families can live together and have sex life?

Prabhupāda: What is wrong?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In that building. It's all right?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not? In a building there are so many different types of men. In a big building, apartment building, you cannot expect all of them of the same class.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. 'Cause in Bombay you had said that is was better that in an immediate building of the temple they should not live together with wife. They should live separately.

Prabhupāda: No, that is, they are not doing business. They are attached to temple activities. Anyway, these things have to be adjusted. You cannot follow very rigid in case of gṛhasthas. Some way or other, you have to adjust. We cannot allow them to be lost.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Greeting cards. This will overtake India, take everyone by storm. Plus, we are coming up with calendars next year.

Prabhupāda: Yes, make money and spend it for printing.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And plus, the temples make money also. It's a new source of income for the temples. And if we don't do it, the karmīs are doing it in any case.

Prabhupāda: No, no, we shall do exactly like karmīs, but not for us. For Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference. Same thing we are doing. Therefore these Māyāvādī cannot understand. "Again form?" The example is just like a man like me, he's diseased, he's suffering. And when they say, "Mother Yaśodās' crying," "So again crying?" He does not know what is this crying. He thinks this crying and that crying the same. Therefore Māyāvādī. They want to make it zero—no crying. But we take it a great blessing, crying for Kṛṣṇa. But they cannot understand. They say, "Again crying? Then what is the benefit?" And this is māyā. You understand? This is the simple understanding of Māyāvāda. As soon as there is crying, they say, "Oh, it is māyā. No crying." Nirviśeṣa-vādī. Crying is a great transcendental pleasure. That they cannot understand, the poor fund of knowledge. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was simply crying. That is love. So that they do not understand, how crying can be pleasure. That is Māyāvāda. All right.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was on my way with Bhavānanda to go to Africa for Brahmānanda Mahārāja. So we stopped for half a day in London, so they showed us the property. At that time they had not yet bought it, so the karmīs owned it. So I had to go in as if I was a customer there at the pub. I didn't buy anything, but I looked around. So then on the next floor... Basically it's a building, say, three rooms like this and then up.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Quite big.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not real big, but then again, in that area and for what we want, it doesn't have to be real big. It's not meant to live a lot of people there. Upstairs, on the top floor, there's about four or five rooms for living or for other activities. Then the two ground and basement... I don't know the exact layout. I only went in quickly. I'm trying to think if it was basement plus three-basement, ground, first and second or basement, ground and first floor. Probably there was basement, ground floor, first floor, second floor. Yes, that's what it is. They have rooms where you can do different things.

Prabhupāda: Brick building?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not a big building. It's not that big.

Prabhupāda: Wooden.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, brick building. Yes, Prabhupāda, brick building. It is brick.

Prabhupāda: In London mostly they are brick.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is according to your convenience. But kīrtana is very sweet.

Hari-śauri: Last June we were doing twenty-four hours.

Prabhupāda: That is real business. These astrologer are karmīs. We have nothing to do with the karmī.

Hari-śauri: Their measurement of happiness and distress is how much nice wife and children they get and how much money they get.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhāgavata reading and kīrtana... Hm. Hm.

Hari-śauri: They don't understand that the real happiness is giving everything to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Don't waste time and money in any other way.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes I find that you're sleeping, Śrīla Prabhupāda. So I was just wondering—at night, when you do most of your sleeping, whether we should still do kīrtana. I was thinking that we could do it up until nine o'clock at night and then begin in the morning again.

Prabhupāda: No.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Now we have to open temple in every village.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Temples in every village?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then spend money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And then spend the money.

Prabhupāda: Don't keep money. Spend it. The karmīs, they spend for sense gratification. You spend for Kṛṣṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, there's plenty of money to spend.

Prabhupāda: Karmī.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We also have plenty.

Prabhupāda: No, no, karmī.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I understand. I said there's no shortage of money.

Prabhupāda: No.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What karmī can earn so much!

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What karmī can earn so much. For the temples, that means that by selling your books, the temples will collect about sixteen million dollars in one year. Or in other words, fourteen crores, nine lakhs, forty thousand rupees.

Prabhupāda: They'll believe?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, believe it or not, it's a fact.

Prabhupāda: Fact, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually I don't think these men like Bajaj or any of them could possibly make this much money even in material activities, what to speak of spiritual. Spiritual, they lose money. They have to support it. But we have such a genuine religious movement that it supports itself. We don't require to construct big materialistic enterprises. We simply preach, and Kṛṣṇa supplies all the money.

Jayādvaita: Bajaj is just burdening the world with motorcycles, and you're providing the highest subject matter for hearing and chanting.

Prabhupāda: Where there is need of money, send there. I mean to say, just like Africa and other backwards... I am simply dreaming, and you are actually on the field.