People are mad, and they are doing anything mischievous, sinful. And what is the purpose? Now, just to satisfy the senses. You see? There are so many nice foodstuff—Kṛṣṇa has given—fruits, flowers, grains, milk, butter, sugar. And you can prepare hundreds and thousands of preparation out of it and offer to Kṛṣṇa and eat it very nicely. "No. We must have meat." This is vikarma. Vikarma means sinful activities. Karma, vikarma, and... Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā (ISO 1). God has given you so many nice foodstuff. Why should you kill an animal? Therefore Jesus Christ says, "Thou shall not kill." "Then shall I die?" No. There are so many things. You eat. Tena tyaktena, whatever is ordained by you, by God, Kṛṣṇa... The same thing is said. Kṛṣṇa should have said, "Give me..." Mamsam din mam.(?) No. He says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26).
Jesus and animal-killing
Expressions researched:
"Christ"
|"Jesus"
|"animal"
|"animals"
|"kill"
Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
f you feel some pain by pinching, why should you pinch others? And that is paṇḍita. If you cry when your throat is cut with a knife, why you should slaughter other animals? Therefore Lord Christ says, "Thou shall not kill." But these people are so uneducated. In spite of their Ph.D.s, they have no, this simple education, that "I suffer when I am killed. Why I shall kill others?" This is the modern education, all nonsense rascals' education. This is not education.
General Lectures
American nation, they are concerned with the human being only. Or any nation. Not American, everywhere. And nation means... The definition of "native" means one who has taken birth in that land. That is called native. So the cow is also native. So why this law, that for the benefit of the human being, the cow should be slaughtered? And he is giving milk; he is working for you. What is this philosophy? In Christian religion it is clearly stated, "Thou shalt not kill." And most of the slaughterhouses are in the Christian countries. Why? This is all misunderstanding of spiritual life. Therefore... Just like the discussion went on with the Kazi and Caitanya Mahāprabhu. There was no philosophy. He first asked him that "Cow is your mother. Bull is your father. Why you are killing father and mother? What is your religion? Is that very good philosophy, that you shall kill your father and mother and eat them?" This was the first question. According to Vedic civilization, cow is to be given all protection. The Hindus or followers of the Vedic religion, why they are interested to give protection to the cows, not to the..., not so much to the other animals? And Lord Christ is more liberal. He said, "Thou shalt not kill." He does not name any animal's name. Every animal. Every animal should be given protection. That is also the Vedic idea. Why these poor animals should be killed? By killing, killing, killing, you become sinful and entangled. Therefore now it has begun—one is killing his own child.
Philosophy Discussions
Prabhupāda: So these rascals, foolish, they are thinking material nature is for our enjoyment. That is the materialistic view. There is a flower. "Nature has produced this flower for me. Everything is for me." Just like in the Bible, Jesus Christ says the animals are given under the protection of man. So they are thinking, "They are given to us for eating. God has given." Suppose I entrust Brahmānanda Swami that you give him protection, but if you think, "He's in my protection. I can eat him..." How intelligent! How magnanimous! They are giving protection by eating. And the Māyāvādī philosophers support them, that when they eat animals, Vivekananda's philosophy, "So what is there? I am Brahman, he is Brahman, so we become united." What is that? And I ask him, "Why don't you go to the tiger Brahman?" Because they are thinking that he is Brahman, the goat is Brahman, so when the man Brahman eats the goat Brahman, they unite. So why don't you unite with the tiger Brahman? This is rascaldom. They are all rascals. Anyone who has no trace of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is a rascal.
Conversations and Morning Walks
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Devotee: And also Lord Jesus says that if there is unnecessary killing of animal that "By my hand you shall be slain.". In Genesis. He is stating, "Yes, one may kill, but if there is unnecessary killing, by my hand you shall be slain." In Genesis.
Devotee (1): Also, in Genesis is says that the fruits and herbs of the land shall be your meat. It's describing how man should live and it says that fruits and herbs of the land shall be your meat.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they were meat-eaters, so Jesus Christ replies that fruit should be your meat.
Devotee: The whole key is that (indistinct) disregard everything that has been taught in the past and listen to me. He speaks so many things and he does not lay out so many basic principles about the eating of flesh, having illicit sex connections and so many things. He speaks just slightly touching the subject. He doesn't really give any basic principles. So they always say, "Well, its okay to do this, its okay to do that, because Jesus said forget everything that was said in the past. That's their basic principle.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Pañcadraviḍa: All the popes for hundreds of years have all eaten meat.
Prabhupāda: Then hundreds of years you are fool. Therefore you are intelligent? Does it mean?
Pañcadraviḍa: But when Jesus said, "Thou shalt not kill," he meant humans; he did not mean animals.
Prabhupāda: That is your interpretation.
Akṣayānanda: But Jesus was a shepherd and there were many, many sheep. What did they do with all the sheep?
Prabhupāda: They eat?
Pañcadraviḍa: They must.
Prabhupāda: They must. That is your inference.
Pañcadraviḍa: What else...? In the middle of desert...? Babylon, Israel is all desert country. What will they do with sheep? They are not making wool coats.
Prabhupāda: Then why he has said, "Thou shalt not kill"? Then hypocrisy. Then you reject Jesus complete. He is a hypocrite. Yes. That is the conclusion. How can you follow hypocrite? Huh? Is that all right? If Jesus Christ himself killed animals and he said, "Thou shalt not kill," then he is a hypocrite. Then he cannot preach. He is a hypocrite. You are bringing Christ for condemnation. But how a hypocrite can be the head or can be the religious man or can be...
Akṣayānanda: It is not that we are saying he is a hypocrite.
Prabhupāda: He is proving.
Akṣayānanda: He himself, the Christian is saying that Jesus Christ is a hypocrite.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Akṣayānanda: So why is he following?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Pañcadraviḍa: ...argument being that Christ has said "Thou shalt not kill." That is one of ten commandments. Ten commandments are social codes for how the people are to live. Now, the people that are Christ's disciples, they are all fishermen. His whole community is fishermen and sheep herders. They are always... He is having fisherman community. So he did not mean for them to give up their engagement. They were all living as fishermen. He told them, "Thou shalt not kill." Therefore we can only conclude that Christ meant "Thou shalt not kill other human beings" because he was coming at a time, teaching principles how to live with each other...
Prabhupāda: No, we don't allow to comment or interpret on the words of... That we cannot allow. You cannot interpret in that way, in your own logical... That is not allowed.
Pañcadraviḍa: "But we say that when Christ said, Thou shalt not kill, and you say it refers all living beings, we say that is your interpretation because Christ is coming to teach fishermen. He never told them to give up their occupation. They continued to live as fishermen. Continued to live as sheep herders. He knew that killing was going on. Therefore his statement, 'Thou shalt not kill,' must refer to human beings because he was living in the community. He was teaching by his example."
Prabhupāda: But I can say, "Why not to the animals? You can eat fish only." Then I'll write book like that. Jesus Christ allowed the fishermen to fish, so then you can fish. Why you are killing cows? That will be my argument. If you are actually following Christ, all right, you can take fish, but why you are killing animals, and other animals? Why you are going that "Because Christ has allowed some fish killing, therefore everyone should be killed"? What is this nonsense? You follow strictly. All right, fish-killing.
Pañcadraviḍa: What is the difference between fish killing and goat killing?
Prabhupāda: Then everyone will say what is the difference between animal killing and and man killing?
Pañcadraviḍa: There is big difference between animal killing and...
Prabhupāda: Why big difference?
Pañcadraviḍa: If a man goes into the road he runs over a dog, there will not be so much punishment. But if a man goes into the road, he runs over...
Prabhupāda: That you have made, your laws. You have made that, if you kill a man and if you kill an animal, that is not equal. That is your... But that does not mean when it is said, "Thou shalt not kill"... This is no argument.
Prabhupāda: Man is supposed to be elevated position, how to love God. Animals cannot make (break) ...any distinction between a human being and animal. That is really the symptom of God, that sarva-yoniṣu... Just like if I am obedient son of my father, how can I neglect one son who is very stupid? Rather, if I say to my father, "Father, this son is stupid. He does not bring any service. So please allow me to cut his head," the father will never agree. The father, either a stupid son or very intelligent son, he is kind to everyone, because they are sons. So similarly, if a man is real lover of God, he cannot cut throat of the animals. I think, therefore, Jesus Christ said, "Thou shalt not kill." That is not... If actually one is lover of God, how he can give trouble, pains, to others? That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: Just like Christians says that "Lord Jesus Christ ate fish" or something like that. Because Lord Jesus Christ ate fish, therefore they should maintain slaughterhouse. This is their reasoning. The other day somebody questioned me that... I said that killing of animals is sinful activity. So somebody questioned that "Lord Jesus Christ ate fish," somewhere. So I said that He is powerful. He can eat the whole world. But you cannot imitate. You have to follow his instructions, what he says. He said, 'Thou shall not kill.' So you should follow his instruction, not the action." He is powerful. He can act some way or other, according to circumstances. That is his business. Actually, that is the Vedic statement, that just like the sun, the sun can absorb the urine. People pass urine on the street, and the sunshine absorbs the urine, evaporates, but sun is still pure. Rather, the place where the urine was passed, it becomes disinfected. Similarly, those who are powerful, īśvara, godly, you cannot imitate their actions. They are apparently doing something wrong; still, they are pure. The same example. The sun is absorbing or evaporating the urine, but sun is still pure. But if I imitate and lick up the urine, that is not very good business. Similarly, we cannot imitate the powerful, we have to simply follow the instruction of the powerful. That is... But people, on slight imitation... Is that very good reason? Suppose Christ sometimes ate fish, but that is sufficient reason to maintain big, big slaughterhouse? Because Christ said... And he teached in the desert. Suppose there was no food and he had to eat some fish. So that is his business. He could do it. He is powerful. But does it mean on that strength throughout the whole world the Christians will maintain big, big, up-to-date machinery for slaughterhouse? So it is sinful.
Satsvarūpa: You said: "Well, if you're sinful, there's no question of going on to a higher topic."
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is specially mentioned in the Bhāgavata: vinā paśughnāt.
- nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād
- bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt
- ka uttamaśloka-guṇānuvādāt
- pumān virajyeta vinā paśughnāt
- (SB 10.1.4)
Everyone can understand the truth except the rascals who are meat-eaters. Vinā paśughnāt. Paśughnāt. Paśu means animals, and ghna means killer. Christ therefore first says, "You shall not kill." These rascals are killers from the very beginning, and they're continuing. Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). Those who are paśughna, they cannot understand. They're thinking, "We are doing very good work, philanthropic work, opening hospitals and public roads, and every ten years, we are fighting and killing all the men population." They're happy. They are taking credit for these big, big buildings, but this is duṣkṛtina because simply these buildings are meant for committing sinful activities. That's all. "Wine, women, meat-eating, gambling. We are civilized."
Prabhupāda: Our... I think picture is there. Lord Buddha's picture.
Yogeśvara: In the Bhagavad-gītā?
Prabhupāda: No, no. Not Bhagavad-gītā.
Yogeśvara: In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, back side, the daśāvatāra. (indistinct)
Pṛthu Putra: (Explains in French the picture in Second Canto)
Prabhupāda: He was Hindu in the beginning. Come on. He was Prince, then He become renounced and He was known as Lord Buddha. So Lord Buddha also started His system for stopping animal killing. Lord Jesus also said, "Thou shall not kill." Unfortunately the animal killing is not stopped. We are therefore teaching our followers: no meat-eating, so that if people stop meat-eating, automatically animal killing will be stopped. According to Vedic system, there are four pillars of sinful life, just like this table is on the four pillars. So one pillar is illicit sex, another meat-eating, another intoxication, and another gambling. So at least the brāhmaṇas, the priestly heads of religion, the king and the public leader, they should stop these four sinful activities. The leaders of the society they must be sinless. Then the human society will make nice progress.
Prabhupāda: I think those who are Christian priests, they should cooperate with this movement, chant the name of Christ or Christo and stop animal killing. This is according to Bible. This is not according to my philosophy, but their Christian philosophy. Simply let them do it and see how the situation becomes nice.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Paramahaṁsa: But we want to have a balanced diet with meat, and vegetables and fruit.
Prabhupāda: That balance of diet can be done by grains and vegetables. Why should we kill animals? We know that, the balance can be done. You learn from us that balanced food can be done.
Amogha: But in the Bible it says that God gave animals to the man.
Prabhupāda: For protection. Not for eating. Rascals. Bible does not say that you kill animals. Then Jesus Christ is a hypocrite. His commandment is, "Thou shalt not kill." If he allows killing, then why does he say, "Thou shalt not kill"? Then you prove that Jesus Christ is a hypocrite. Are you following a hypocrite? Nonsense.
Paramahaṁsa: So we understand. We will stop eating meat, but we can still eat fish and eggs. Because there are plenty of fish and plenty of eggs.
Prabhupāda: That is also better than killing animals.
Amogha: Jesus also gave fish to the people in one part of the Bible.
Prabhupāda: When there is no other food, you have to take anything. That is another thing. But when there are other foods, grains and vegetables, why should you eat anything? You have to eat and live. So if you can eat and live innocently, why should you kill? Then, Christ says "Thou shall not kill." Was he a fool, rascal, that he advised "Thou shall not kill"? He had no idea?
Śrutakīrti: But he meant kill other people.
Prabhupāda: No. That is your interpretation, rascal's interpretation.
Amogha: All the priests say that.
Prabhupāda: He says clearly, "Thou shall not kill." And when I cut grass, it is not called killing. You should know dictionary. Because you are uneducated, you do not know the meaning of the dictionary.
Prabhupāda: They enquire why I have come to the West. If I enquire that two thousand year ago you have been taught that "Thou shall not kill," and your business is only to kill. I have come to enquire from you, "What is your answer?" How you have become civilized, that you cannot accept one instruction of Jesus Christ. And you are declaring yourself as Christian and civilized. This is my question. Answer it. In two thousand years, first of all you began killing Christ. Never mind, still, two thousand years past, you could not stop killing? You could not accept the first instruction. What kind of civilized man?
Jayadharma: Sometimes they say, Prabhupāda, that Jesus meant just...
Prabhupāda: Meant?
Jayadharma: ...just human beings.
Prabhupāda: All right. That means you are killer of human beings. THat means, in the beginning, you are all killers of human beings. And therefore you killed Jesus Christ. That is not very good qualification. Killer of human being... He said "Thou shall not kill." Where he says that "Thou shall not kill human beings"? That is your interpretation.
Śrutakīrti: That's obvious he meant only human beings, because he himself was killing animals.
Prabhupāda: Christ was killing animals?
Śrutakīrti: Well, he instructed his own disciples to distribute the fish. So he was also involved in killing of animals.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but he said that the fuits and vegetable should be your flesh. What is that?
Śrutakīrti: Well, that was before Christ. He never said that.
Paramahaṁsa: He also said that.
Śrutakīrti: Where does he say that?
Paramahaṁsa: He said that in the (inaudible). Yes. The Bible says that and Christ also spoke that, that the grasses of the fields and the fruits of the trees shall be your meat.
Prabhupāda: Then there is contradiction?
Paramahaṁsa: Yes. The Christians always say that Christ was eating fish and drinking wine, so what problem have we got? Drinking a little alcohol, eating a little meat?
Prabhupāda: Then how did he say that "Thou shall not kill"?
Śrutakīrti: That was actually the Ten Commandments. That was given by God.
Gaṇeśa: Given to Moses.
Śrutakīrti: That was given to Moses by God. The Ten Commandments.
Prabhupāda: That is not Christ has said?
Śrutakīrti: Well, Christ enforced it.
Paramahaṁsa: It was accepted by him as one of the rules.
Śrutakīrti: Christ's greatest commandment was to love God above all things. So if one is to love God, one must follow His instructions.
Prabhupāda: Who is following the instructions?
Śrutakīrti: We are.
Prabhupāda: But supposing Christ distributed fish, but did he say that we shall maintain regular slaughterhouse for killing animals?
Śrutakīrti: He was against that. He threw the men out of the temple, because they were selling lambs in the temple to be offered at the altar. So he kicked them out, saying this temple is not a place for selling animals for slaughter.
Paramahaṁsa: But in one place they say Christ encouraged fishermen. Because he came and the fishermen were fishing on one side of the boat, and Christ came along and said, "You are fishing on the wrong side of the boat." He said, "Put your nets on the other side, and you will get more fish." An they did that and they got huge amounts of fish. And so they were encouraged in their fish-eating in this way.
Gaṇeśa: Jesus also said to the fisherman, "Give up you fishing and I will make you fishers of men." He said this to his disciples.
Prabhupāda: Then on the whole it comes that his instructions are sometimes contradictory.
Australian devotee 2: They feel justified in killing because they say the animal has no soul.
Prabhupāda: Just see how fool they are. Therefore we simply say these are rascals. They have not even the common sense of an uneducated man. And they are scientist. Why there is no soul? What is the proof? What is their argument? Why they say there is no soul? What is the argument?
Australian devotee 2: Because it says in the Bible that until one accepts Jesus Christ one has no soul.
Prabhupāda: Jesus Christ said that animal has no soul? Has he said like that? Has he said?
Australian devotee 2: He says that one must be born again.
Prabhupāda: Never he can say like that. He is not such a fool. He cannot say that.
Australian devotee 4: Like this priest said the other day, Śrīla Prabhupāda. He said that the human being has a spirit soul, but the animal just has a soul. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: (laughs) The same thing. "Everyone is sinful, but we are pure sinful." (laughter) Pure sinful.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They say everyone is sinful; therefore what is the use?
Prabhupāda: Everyone sinful, therefore.... Christ is not sinful, therefore somebody may be sinful.
Hariśauri: But their whole philosophy is that no one can be sinless except Christ.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, then why don't you follow Christ? Christ says "Thou shall not kill," then why do you interpret? "Christ ate meat, therefore we shall open slaughterhouse," this is rascaldom. This rascaldom (indistinct). Because maybe somewhere he has eaten fish, therefore, by following in his footsteps, we shall open slaughterhouse and kill thousands of animals daily. The evidence is Christ has eaten fish. Do they not say that? And they are Christians. All others are sinful (indistinct), that's all right, why don't you kill (indistinct). Several times these Christians (indistinct).
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: When in Bible they say, "The animal is given to the care of man," like that... There is. This is care of, not that "Because we care of, we shall kill them." What is this interpretation? How demonic this Western civilization. "Because Jesus Christ, the God, has given the animals to our care, therefore we shall kill and eat." Anyway, try to introduce a renovation of civilization. Therefore they are trying to oppose us. Now they are conscious about the movement, that "If it is allowed to increase, then our program will be finished. And young men are taking. They are not rejecting." That is their concern.
| Page Title: | Jesus and animal-killing |
| Compiler: | Labangalatika |
| Created: | 17 of Feb, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=4, Con=13, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 17 |