To get out of this miserable condition, Śukadeva says, here it is, says, karuṇayā āha. Karuṇayā means "out of compassion." People are suffering. This is Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava takes so much trouble to speak to the rascals and dulls about God consciousness. Why? Out of compassion. They are very compassionate. "Oh, so many people are suffering for want of knowledge. Let me try to give them some knowledge." Karuṇayā. This is Vaiṣṇava's qualification. He is very kind. Titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ. Titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ (SB 3.25.21). Just like Lord Jesus Christ. He was being crucified. Still, he was saying, "My father, they do not know what they are doing." Is it not? He is so much compassionate that "These rascals do not know what they are doing, rascals. Still, I request You to forgive them." This is Vaiṣṇava. Personally he is suffering, but he is still compassionate. There was an article recently, that Jesus Christ, although he was crucified, he did not die. Yes. He went to Kashmir. Some historical references are there. So actually, when he was representative of God, son of God, how these rascals could kill him? It was a show only.
Jesus (Lectures, SB)
Lectures
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
Still, he was saying, "My father, they do not know what they are doing." Is it not? He is so much compassionate that "These rascals do not know what they are doing, rascals. Still, I request You to forgive them." This is Vaiṣṇava. Personally he is suffering, but he is still compassionate. There was an article recently, that Jesus Christ, although he was crucified, he did not die. Yes. He went to Kashmir. Some historical references are there. So actually, when he was representative of God, son of God, how these rascals could kill him? It was a show only.
Anyway, so the devotees, they are so compassionate that titikṣavaḥ, they suffer all kinds of odds in this material world. Still, they try to give the information, "There is God, there is kingdom of God. You are suffering here. Please do this so that you can again come back to home." This is the Vaiṣṇava. Karuṇayā. Out of compassion. Karuṇayāha purāṇa-guhyam. Purāṇa. There are eighteen types of Purāṇas.
They are not accepted, all cheating types of religion. There are so many religious..., not perfect knowledge even. Even they disobey... They cannot without disobeying. Because it cannot train people to the perfection, they remain defective always. Big, big priests, big, big cardinals. What they are doing? They are simply disobeying. Christ says, "Thou shalt not kill," so they are simply eating meat. That's all. "No intoxicants"; they are taking. They cannot be trained up. Even though so-called priests and the..., they are not trained up. They cannot take it up. Therefore Bhāgavata principle is so nice that little training... Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Little training. Even the most fallen can be elevated to the highest position. This is Bhāgavatam. Perfect. Purāṇa-guhyam.
So who did it? Śukadeva Gosvāmī. He first of all explained Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam before Parīkṣit Mahārāja. So that is the beginning of Bhāgavata teaching.
So there was no black market, because people were religious.
Therefore if civilization is based on religious life, it doesn't matter what religion he belongs to, he is elevated. Any religion. And therefore I ask the Christians that Lord Christ says that "Thou shall not kill," why you are killing? They give some vague explanation. But actually a real Christian is as good as a real Hindu, as a real Muslim—if he follows. No religion is bad. We don't say. But the first-class religion is that... That is explained here: sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). Every religion teaches how to love God more or less. Why more or less? That is the only aim. How to learn how to love God. But they are rejecting God, what to speak of love. Rejecting. "What is God, this nonsense? I am God. God is dead. Finished."
Therefore all the śāstras, all the Vedic literatures, all the great saintly persons, they come. They simply come to give you hint how you can make spiritual advancement of life. They do not come here to say how you can make very comfortable material life. They never say. Either you say Jesus Christ or Kṛṣṇa or Lord Buddha or Hazrat Muhammad or anyone, all of them have come to give you information for spiritual advancement of life, not for any material advancement of life. That is intelligence. Material advancement of life, you should be satisfied. Whatever God has given you, you be satisfied with that. Don't waste your time, that is not possible. Therefore your occupational duty should be... The highest occupational duty is suggested here, yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. If you engage yourself in such occupational duties by which you can increase your devotional service for the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
That is first-class religion. Otherwise, it is third-class, fourth-class or whatever... Whether your interest is to satisfy God. Then it is first-class. It doesn't matter. By the name it doesn't go away. Therefore we find, actually those who are advanced in religious principle, they are all devotee. (break) ...faithful. Just like Lord Jesus Christ-devotee. Similarly, Muhammad also, they were devotee. They never declared that "I am God." Did Muhammad say like that? No. Servant of God. Similarly, Jesus Christ said, "Son of God." So it is very good. It doesn't matter. If we remain son of God or servant of God faithfully, then it is first-class religious system.
But it is very difficult to say, but bhāgavata-dharma, that which is called bhāgavata, simply relationship with Kṛṣṇa... In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you will find no other topics except to establish the original relationship with Kṛṣṇa, and therefore it is first class. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje ahaitukī (SB 1.2.6), without any... In the material field... What can be done? Some way or other, although it is..., in the Bible it is said... They go to church for asking bread.
What the value of your examination paper you have, how much mark you have received. Similarly we can declare ourself very religionist, great religionist, follower of great religion, but what is this? What is...? How much you have developed your sense of God consciousness, how much you have learned to love God.
Just like in your western countries, Lord Jesus Christ sacrificed His life for God's. Can... He was charged that He was preaching something blasphemous. But He was a devotee of God. He, He preached to the people that there is kingdom of God, you love God, and go to the kingdom of God. Simple truth. That is the actual business of human life. This human life is meant for understanding God because we are part and parcel of God and we have forgotten. Just like the same thing, I have given several times example, a person, he belongs to a rich father, but somehow or other he has left home and he is loitering. In your country this example is very applicable. So many boys, they have left their rich father, rich family, and lying down on the street. I have seen.
Prabhupāda: No, no. You are asking; we can give you. Now it is up to you to believe it or not believe it, but we can give you. Now you test whether it is real or not. That is your business. But we can give you the name of address, His father's name, His abode, everything, house number, everything. (laughter)
Indian man: In your opinion, what is the relationship between Kṛṣṇa and Christ? In this country, everybody, many people... There are 250,000,000 people in this country. And I would say maybe ten percent of the people haven't heard about Kṛṣṇa. And I have discussions with people, and I try to explain as much as I can.
Prabhupāda: So why don't you inform them?
Indian man: No, I know that. But those people, they don't know that. Now what would you say... You know, if they believe in Christ, and if they are a true religious people within their own means, knowledge, and right, what would be their relationship as far as going to Vaikuṇṭha or mokṣa or whatever you say?
Indian man: No, I know that. But those people, they don't know that. Now what would you say... You know, if they believe in Christ, and if they are a true religious people within their own means, knowledge, and right, what would be their relationship as far as going to Vaikuṇṭha or mokṣa or whatever you say?
Prabhupāda: No, first of all your question is what is the relationship between Christ and Kṛṣṇa. You inquired this. So Christ says that he is son of God. So he is son of Kṛṣṇa.
Indian man: That was what I thought, but I could not convince them all.
Prabhupāda: You should learn how to convince. (laughter) Without learning, how can you do it? First of all you become a disciple of Kṛṣṇa. Then you can teach. Tad-vijñānārtha... What is that?
"Anyone who has taken birth in India as a human being, he must first of all know the success of life and preach the cult to others, para-upakāra." This is the duty of every Indian, that you should learn Bhagavad-gītā perfectly well and preach it. That is your duty, all Indians. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra janma sārthaka kari' kara (CC Adi 9.41). They do not know it. They know that Christ is son of God. They have heard it. Now convince them that "Yes, there is no fighting between Christian or Kṛṣṇa-ite. One is worshiping the father; one is worshiping the son. So there is no difference." But īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Kṛṣṇa... He says that,
- sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya
- sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ yāḥ
- tāsāṁ mahad yonir brahma
- ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā
- (BG 14.4)
He is the father. That's all right. He identifies Himself as being the father, and Christ identifying himself as the son, then where is the difference? There is no difference. Either you learn from the son or from the father, the teaching will be the same. Only a minority is Christian only.
Prabhupāda: Only a minority is Christian only.
Guest: The majority believe that Christ is also God, not just His son, but he is God also.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, to... God... God and God's son, they are one and different simultaneously. That you, anyone, can understand, that a father and the son... The son is born out of the body of the father. So if the father is spirit, the son is also spirit because the son is born out of the body of the father. So, so far the body is concerned, it is spiritual. But still, the relationship is father and son. It is called acintya-bhedābheda-tattva, simultaneously one and different. Anyone can understand. The child is the father's body. In that way it is one. But a child is the son, and the father is the father. So simultaneously one and different. So Christ is God and not God simultaneously.
Guest: Are you saying that through the unity of Kṛṣṇa is also a unity of non-Kṛṣṇa?
Jagadīśa: He's saying that within the unity of Kṛṣṇa is also...
Guest: There is also the unity of non-Kṛṣṇa?
So we are worshiping Kṛṣṇa. His simple business is, as we have described, Rādhā-Mādhava, He is lover of Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī. Kṛṣṇa means lover. This very word Kṛṣṇa means "all-attractive." You can attract by your love, not by anything else. Therefore His name is Kṛṣṇa. I have read one book, Aquarian Gospel, among the Christians. In that book it is said that the word Christ has come from the word Christo, Christo, it is a Greek word, and the meaning of Christo is "lover, anointed." So I think the word Christ is apabhraṁśa of Christo, and Christo... In India still, if one's name is Kṛṣṇa, we call him Kriṣṭo, or sometimes Keṣṭo. My younger brother, his name was Kṛṣṇa. So in family we were calling him "Keṣṭo." That is very current. So actually love, the word love, has come from Kṛṣṇa. That is a fact. Therefore you will see always Kṛṣṇa always with Rādhārāṇī. We worship Kṛṣṇa-Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa, Sītā-Rāma. This is Vaiṣṇava's worshipable Deity. We do not worship alone God. We Vaiṣṇava, we want to see Kṛṣṇa and His energy, potency. That is the Vedic system.
That doesn't matter." Not that, "First of all I go to the heaven, and others will rot." This is not Vaiṣṇava philosophy. Vaiṣṇava philosophy is, "I may rot in hell, but others may be delivered." Patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo vaiṣṇavebhyo namo namaḥ.
Vaiṣṇava is meant for delivering all the fallen souls. Just like a very good example: Lord Jesus Christ. According to the Christian idea, he took all the sins of all people and he sacrificed his life. Very good example. Similarly, Haridāsa Ṭhākura also. There... Nityānanda Prabhu. The Vaiṣṇava is always eager how to deliver all these fallen souls rotting in the hell of māyā. Therefore here it is recommended, syān mahat-sevayā. You have to take shelter of a mahat. Mahat means mahātmā or Vaiṣṇava. Mahātmā is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, who is mahātmā: Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That mahātmā, simply by dressing like me with a saffron cloth, does not become a mahātmā. The mahātmā is described in the Bhagavad-gītā:
Of course, here we don't find such facilities, but India, when we speak on the Bhagavad-gītā, or on the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, we worship regularly with flower, with other paraphernalia required for worshiping. You see? In the Sikh religion they also, they have no deity, form of the deity, but they worship the book, grantha-sevā. Perhaps some of you who are acquainted with the Sikh community, they, they worship this grantha. Similarly, the Muhammadans also, they worship the Koran. And similarly, in your Christian also, you worship Bible.
So it is a fact that Lord Jesus Christ is present by his words, Bible. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is present by His words. These personalities, either God or son of God, who come from the transcendental world, they keep their transcendental identity without being contaminated by this material world. That is their omnipotency. We are practiced to say that God is omnipotent. Now, this is His omnipotency. Omnipotency means that He is not different from His name, from His quality, from His pastimes, from His instruction, everything.
So to become Kṛṣṇa conscious means there will be so many enemies. Even father, what to speak of others? They will criticize, they will attack. I have recently received letter from Germany. Our devotees were attacked by a gang. So this is the way. As soon as you become God conscious, the demons will create disturbance. Just like Lord Jesus Christ. He was crucified by the demons. The only fault was that he was God conscious. Just see; such innocent person. The world is like that. So these dangers are there, but don't be afraid of. Kṛṣṇa will save you. And tolerate. If there are disturbances... Because it is the nature of this material world, as soon as there will be devotee, God conscious person, there will be so many enemies from the side of the demons. So we have to tolerate.
That consciousness has no form, he says. Then farther development is this Vaiṣṇava philosophy, that as soon as there is consciousness, that is a person. These are the gradual development. Actually, they are not contradictory. But according to the time, circumstances, different types of philosophies are there. Just like Jesus Christ. He is advising, "Thou shalt not killing." That means the people were so much accustomed to kill. Very first-class gentlemen. Simply wanted to kill. So what advice can be given there? First is that "Thou shalt not kill."
So according to the time, circumstances, men, the different scriptures are there. The ultimate aim of scripture is to bring one to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But everything is not explained because the people are unable to understand. Just like in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are making movement, but not that everyone is understanding. Those who are very intelligent, or those who are, whose background is pious, they can understand.
Therefore when Lord Buddha began to preach his philosophy, ahiṁsā, nonviolence, he did not accept the authority of Vedas. Because people will misuse it. Therefore he said that "I don't care for your Vedas." Just like Lord Jesus Christ rebelled against the whole Testament. He formulated his own testament, New Testament. Similarly, Lord Buddha also, he rejected Vedas and He presented his own philosophy: ahiṁsā, nonviolence. Ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ. Because he was very kind upon on the poor animals. Sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. Paśu-ghātam means animal killing. Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. Śruti-jātam. Śruti means Veda. So in the Vedas, although there are, in particular cases, there are animal sacrifice... That is also very restricted. But we cannot say that there is no animal sacrifice. There is in some cases. So Lord Buddha, nindasi, He decried, "No, I don't accept your Vedas." Therefore Buddha religion is different from Vedic religion, because he rejected Vedas. And the Vedic followers, because he rejected Vedic principles, Vedic followers said that he, "You are nāstika." Nāstika means unbeliever.
They are equally powerful. But jīva-tattva, we living entities, although we are part and parcel of God, we are not equally powerful. That is called the philosophy of acintya-bhedābheda-tattva, simultaneously one and different. Simultaneously one and different. Just like in Bible also, Jesus Christ is claimed as one with God, but at the same time different. As son, he is different. As representative of God, he is one. That is the philosophy, perfect philosophy. All living entities, anything within this manifestation, even this whole world, is one with God. Idaṁ hi viśvaṁ bhagavān ivetaraḥ Nārada Muni said to Vyāsadeva. Idaṁ hi viśvam. This whole universe is God. Idaṁ hi viśvaṁ bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, ivetaraḥ. But it appears like different.
So now, according to this formula, idaṁ hi viśvaṁ bhagavān... Then forgetfulness of Bhagavān. Forgetfulness of relationship with Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa, is materialism. The... Actually, everything is Bhagavān, but when we forget the relationship of this world and Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa, that is materialism. Just like we are offering some foodstuff to Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa is eating matter? No. Kṛṣṇa cannot eat matter.
Just like in Christian religion there is a faith that confession, weekly confession. That is nice. When you confess your sinful activities before the higher authorities, before the representative of God, Lord Jesus Christ, or God, or Kṛṣṇa, your sinful activities are finished. That's all right. But that does not mean that you shall go again, and again commit sinful activities, and again come at the end of the week and finish your business. No. This is not meant. One should be conscious.
Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He accepted Jagāi-Mādhāi... They were very sinful. But He simply asked the condition that "From this day no more sinful activities. You accept this, then I accept you." They promised, "Yes. Whatever we have done, no more." That should be the... Confess, God can excuse, and that is not difficult job. God can excuse any amount of sinful activity, but after confessing, after being free, if I again commit sinful activities, oh, that is the greatest sin. That is the greatest sin. One should be ashamed of, that "I... God has excused me. Again I shall? So I am so shameless." But this business is going on. No. That should not be. Nāmno balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ.
Unless there is black, there is no question of white. Similarly, whatever you try to understand, there must be the opposite number. That is called duality, or dvaita-jagat, or the duality. But in the absolute world there is no such distinction. One. The same father and the same son. Therefore, if I do not mistake, sometimes Jesus Christ is accepted as the father and sometimes as son. Because in the material world there is such distinction, master and servant, father and son, lower or higher. But in the spiritual world, although there are varieties, but there is no distinction. There is no distinction.
The Māyāvādī philosophers, they cannot understand the spiritual varieties. As soon as they think of varieties they think of material things. But actually, that is not. There is variety in the spiritual... Unless there is variety... Because Vedānta-sūtra says, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Unless there are varieties, how in the shadow the varieties are there? Just like in a cinematographic picture, unless in the original photograph or the subject matter from which photograph is taken, unless there were varieties, how the picture can be variety? So in the material world the varieties are reflection of the spiritual world. Here is also father, but this is imitation father. But there is also father, but that is not father, that is real father.
Therefore Kṛṣṇa says this is a confidential... Nobody will accept. But one who takes the risk, "Please, surrender..." So when you go to preach, you know the preachers are sometimes attacked. Just like Nityānanda Prabhu was attacked by Jagāi-Mādhāi. And when Lord Jesus Christ was crucified, killed... So a preacher has the risk. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, "These field workers who are engaged in preaching this Bhagavad-gītā as it is, they are very, very dear to Me. Very, very dear to Me." Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69). "There is nobody dearer to Me than that person who preaches this confidential truth to the people."
Therefore if we want to please Kṛṣṇa, we have to take this risk. Kṛṣṇa, guru. My spiritual master took this risk, preaching work, and he inspired us also to do that preaching work. And we are also imploring you to take this preaching work. So this preaching work, however, I mean to say, I mean to say, poorly we do... Poorly—it is not poor, but suppose I am not very much educated. Just like this boy.
The whole plan should be that people should understand that he is not animal. First thing. This is education. In the animal society there is no religion, but as soon as you claim to be in human society or civilized society, then there must be religion. Economic development secondary, next. Of course, according to medical consciousness they say ātmānam ātmānam, means they say "body." But ātmā means this body, this mind, and the soul. Real meaning of ātmā is soul. So there is a verse, ātmānaṁ sarvato rakṣet: "First of all try to save your soul." I think Lord Jesus Christ has also spoken something like that. "If, after gaining everything, one loses his spirit soul, then what does he gain?" Is it not?
By this disinfectant method, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, it will not, simply by theoretical knowledge will not do.
So it is disinfectant, actually. Janatāgha-viplavaḥ. It stops further sinful activities of that person. And if we continue, that "Well, I have got a disinfectant method, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Therefore I can go on committing these four principles of sin, and I'll be (dis)infected." Just like in the Christian church they go, confess. That's all right. Confessing is disinfectant. But how is that you again do it? What is the meaning? You go to church, confess. That's very nice. Now your sinful activities is neutralized. That's all right. But why you are committing again? What is the answer? Hm? What will be the possible answer if I ask any Christian gentleman that "You are committing sinful activities, all right, confessing in the church before Lord Jesus Christ, he's representative, or his representative, or God. Your sinful activities all neutralized, excused. That's all right. But why you are committing again?" What will be the answer?
Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). Because I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, then what is my duty? To serve Kṛṣṇa. There is no other duty. Any other duty I manufacture, that is illusion. That is māyā, any duty I manufacture. So under illusion, I am manufacturing duties. This is called conditional life. So Vyāsadeva is advised that akhila-bandha-muktaye:"People are under illusion, 'I' and 'mine.' So, just try to get them liberated from this illusion." This is Vaiṣṇava's duty. Just like Nārada is advising Vyāsadeva, Vyāsadeva is advising his disciple Madhvācārya. He is advising his disciple. This is Vaiṣṇavism. They are not concerned for personal self. Akhila-bandha-muktaye: "Just try to liberate all these conditioned souls." Just like Lord Jesus Christ. For himself... He was son of God. He had nothing to do. God consciousness, he was. He's perfectly... He knows everything. But why he was crucified? Because he wanted to work for others. That is Vaiṣṇavism.
"They'll accept you authority, and they'll be steady in that assertion, in that conviction." And na manyate tasya nivāraṇam: "And if you say..." Just like in other religious principles, if we say that "Don't eat meat..." I had some conversation with some Christian priests. They put forward this argument, "Why should we not eat? Our Christ took flesh. And why should we not? We must do it." They say like that. But Christ said that "You should... You shall not kill." So they cannot give any proper explanation why they kill. So in every religion... In Muhammadan religion, there...
So if, if this killing process or this drinking process, or this, which a man has got natural, that is excited under the name of religion, then Nārada says, "Then when actually they will be forbidden for higher elevation of life, they'll not accept it. Therefore your description in the śāstras of all these nonsense, jugupsitam, is abominable." Jugupsitaṁ dharma-kṛte 'nuśāsataḥ sva-bhāva-rakta... "The natural tendency, this. You should not incite them more and more." Here it is said that patṛka viruddham eva. It is against... Jātam ita jugupsitam. Jugupsitaṁ nindaṁ kāma karmādi(?). Jugupsitam. Śrīdhara Svāmī gives note, nindam: abominable; kāma karma... Kāma karma means that fruitive result.
That is a great... Nāmno balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ. That is very great offense, that I am a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, and... Just like the Christian people go to church, that "I am a devotee of Christ. I can do any nonsense, and on Sunday I shall go, I shall admit, 'Yes, my Lord, I have done this.' " "All right. Excused." Then? Then I'll do again tomorrow." This is not wanted. That is pāpa-buddhiḥ, that "Somehow or other let me be atoned today, and from tomorrow I shall begin my business. And again I shall come Sunday." This is pāpa-buddhiḥ. Such persons are never excused, but they do not know. But by mistake or by chance, unknowingly if we commit some mistake, that is excused. Sapada-mūlaṁ bhajatāṁ priyasya. Because he is engaged in the service of the Lord. Not only that, one who is engaged, if you simply admit, "Sir, from today I shall be Your servant," immediately, immediately you become free from all... Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) "You just surrender to Me." And you do it, and immediately ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. Immediately. But don't commit again. He can excuse immediately. Api cet su-durācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30).
Śreya. Tad-vadhas tasya hi śreyo yad-doṣād yāty adhaḥ pumān. Prāyaścitta, it is called prāyaścitta. Prāyaścitta, in the śāstras prāyaścitta is described. In every religion there is prāyaścitta, atonement. In Christian religion the prāyaścitta is also advised. The sinner has to admit that he has committed sin, then he is excused by Christ or God. But not that "Purposefully I'll go on committing sins, and then I shall admit, and I'll go on with this business and I'll be excused." No. That is not. It is quite natural that if you have done something criminal by mistake, then you can be excused by the authorities. But not that because by your admission you were once excused, and you'll go on committing all kinds of sinful activities, and you'll be excused simply by admission. No. That is not possible. The Christians they do like that. On Sunday they go to the church, and they admit their sinful activities of the week, and pay something fine to the priest, and they become free from the sinful activities, reactions. And from Monday, again he begins. And then again on Sunday, he admits.
There was agreement by the priests and myself. There was complete agreement. (aside:) You were with me? Or... No. You were not. They, after hearing my lecture for one hour, they agreed and clapped for ten minutes. So there cannot be any misun... Those who are actually... They questioned, "What is your opinion of Lord Jesus Christ?" and I said, "He preached God consciousness. He's our guru. Anyone who preaches the message of God, he is guru." So they very much appreciated, and actually it is so. Vaiṣṇava who is preaching, it may be in a different way, according to time and place and the party—they have to change something, deśa-kāla-pātra—but we have to see the essence. Wherever there is God consciousness, wherever is there understanding... Just like we sometime consult dictionary, a small dictionary, pocket dictionary, and a big international dictionary. Both of them are dictionaries. But according to time, deśa-kāla-pātra, for small child, that small dictionary is sufficient.
That is his fault. The father could not. Therefore they are called sura-dviṣām, always envious of the devotees. Demon means always envious of the devotees. This material world is so nuisance place that...
Just you have got a very nice example. Just like Jesus Christ, Lord Christ. So what was his fault? But the sura-dviṣām, the envious persons killed him. And if we find, if we analyze, what is the fault of Jesus Christ, there is no fault. The only fault he was preaching about God. And still he'd find so many enemies. He was cruelly crucified. So you'll always find this, sura-dviṣām. So Kṛṣṇa comes to kill these sura-dviṣām. Therefore vadhāya ca sura-dviṣām. These envious persons are killed.
But this killing business can be done without the presence of Kṛṣṇa. Because there are so many natural forces, war, pestilence, famine. Anything. Just set on working. Millions of people can be killed. So Kṛṣṇa does not require to come here to kill these rascals. They can be killed simply by Kṛṣṇa's direction, nature's law.
A Kṛṣṇa conscious person will not distinguish like that. For eating animal, they will philosophize that animal has no soul; therefore it can be killed. No. This is nonsense. Everyone has got soul. Even a small ant has got soul. But they have to kill. They have to eat. They are philosophizing different way. Lord Jesus Christ said, "Thou shalt not kill," and now they are interpreting, "Killing means murdering human being." But that is not in the Bible.
So they are manufacturing their own ways of understanding Bible and ethical principles. Therefore it is becoming valueless. It is becoming valueless. No value. One cannot change the words of the authority. If you believe in Lord Jesus Christ, you cannot make any change to your convenience. This is rascaldom. You cannot be a Christian if you violate the orders of Lord Jesus Christ. But they are doing so. Now the Christian priests... We had a meeting in Sydney. One priest asked me, "What we have done that they are not anymore caring for us?" I told him that "You are always violating the ten commandments, and you say what you have done? Lord Jesus Christ says, 'Thou shalt not kill,' and you are killing, expert in killing.
Because under the influence of māyā, everyone is falsely proud. "Oḥ, I am so intelligent. I can do everything." This is the disease, material. Everyone is falsely proud.
So if you want to enter into the spiritual kingdom, as Lord Jesus Christ also said, "The kingdom of God is for the meek and the..." Huh? Meek and mild, yes. So that is the qualification. You have to become humble. Therefore the Bhāgavata also says the same thing. Jñāne prayāsam. Don't be very much proud of your so-called knowledge, that "I can understand everything." You should become namra, meek and mild. And then how to be...? Jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva san-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām. You should engage yourself to receive spiritual knowledge from the authority, reliable source. Spiritual knowledge is understood through the ear. Therefore the Vedas are called śruti. San-mukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām. This is recommended, that Kṛṣṇa's kathā should be heard from the realized source.
Even sometimes, not by willing, sometimes accidentally, a devotee... Just like the other day in the meeting, somebody was giving the example, "Lord Christ, he ate fish." So he can do that. There was some necessity. But you cannot do that. So even though it is sometimes done, abominable, but still they are in exalted position. This is to be understood. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). Tejīyasām, those who are very, very powerful, anything abominable done by them, it does not contaminate. This is to be understood. But you cannot do that. You cannot imitate.
(reads:) "When Yamarāja thus incarnated himself as Vidura, his post was officiated by Aryamā, one of the many sons of Kaśyapa and Aditi, the Ādityas, or sons of Aditi, and there are twelve Ādityas. Aryamā is one of the twelve Ādityas, and therefore it was quite possible for him to take charge of the office of Yamarāja during his one hundred years' absence in the form of Vidura. The conclusion is that Vidura was never a śūdra, but was greater than the purest type of brāhmaṇa."
Now, have kīrtana. (end)
Therefore they would be turned again into demons: "Oh, I belong to Kṛṣṇa's family." Just like in our country, Nityānanda-vaṁśa: "I belong to the Nityānanda Prabhu," exploiting people. The Muhammadans also: "I belong to the family of Muhammad, Hazrat Muhammad." Christ has no family; he did not marry. Otherwise some would have been very much puffed up, "I am family of Christ." So this material nature is such thing that as soon as you get little power, you become puffed up. That is demonic nature. That is demonic nature. So Kṛṣṇa wanted to take them with Him, because they came to help Kṛṣṇa, and after His departure, these demigods would turn into demons. That He did not like to see.
Therefore this Yadu dynasty was placed amongst themselves. Because there was no other person to kill the Yadu..., and any one of the Yadu dynasty. Therefore this fratricidal war was manufactured and they died. Yayāharad bhuvo bhāraṁ tāṁ tanuṁ vijahāv ajaḥ, kaṇṭakaṁ kaṇṭakena. Kaṇṭakaṁ kaṇṭakena.
Legal meat-eating is that you sacrifice one animal before the goddess, deity Kālī, Goddess Kālī, and there are so many rules and regulation. Under regulative principle one was allowed to eat meat. Not that maintain big, big slaughterhouse and purchase from the butcher shop and eat meat. This is illegal.
Now, sometimes, in..., the Christians, they say the Lord Jesus Christ sometimes ate fish. Is not that? But... Might have done so. One thing is Christ is powerful. Under certain circumstances, even if he had eaten some fish, that is not fault for him. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). In the śāstra (it) says, those who are very powerful, if they sometimes do something which is prohibited for common man, that is special case. But even if you accept that Christ ate fish, "Therefore we shall eat meat and maintain big, big slaughterhouse, although in the Bible it is clearly said 'Thou shalt not kill,' " this is not Christianity. This is against, violating the rules and regulation of Christianity. Factually, one should not kill. But under some pressure or under certain condition, if it is needed, that is another thing.
They used to kill. Not in the slaughterhouse. Even up to date, those who are strictly religious followers... Suppose the Muhammadans. There in the Koran, the injunction is that "You should sacrifice one animal in the mosque." The Jews also, they sacrifice animal in the synagogue. I have read one book, Lord Jesus Christ, when he was a young boy he was very much shocked when he saw that animal-killing is going on in the synagogue. Therefore he differentiated from the Jews and he started his own religion, Christian religion. Is it not a fact? Am I right? Why... He was also a Jew. Why he deviated? Why he deviated from the Jews? Because when he saw in his young age that animals are being killed in the synagogue, he differed, "No, no, this is horrible. This should be stopped." Therefore, his first commandment is "Thou shall not kill." Am I wrong or right? Eh? That was his first impression, that people should stop killing. So who is Christian? Everyone is violating this first commandment, what to speak of other commandments. Everyone. So it is very difficult to find a real Christian. But if you violate the commandments of Christ, then what kind of Christian you are? This is our question. Who will answer this?
Devotee (1): Prabhupāda, I just... When Lord Jesus Christ was talking to his disciple John, he mentioned... John said, "Well, what should I do?" He says, "Well, the first great commandment is to love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, with all thy mind, and to love your neighbor as yourself, as thyself." When he's talking about the neighbor, isn't that true that all living entities is man's neighbor?
Prabhupāda: Yes, certainly.
Devotee (1): I mean, even the bugs and everything?
Prabhupāda: There are beings who lives with animals, who live with trees, who live with human being. So many. All of them are neighbors. Just like in the modern sense, national. What is the definition of nationality? A living entity who is born in that country, he's called national. Is it not? So why you are killing cows? Are they not national? So the human law is imperfect always. They... There is partiality always. But in God's law there is no such thing, partiality. Therefore, Christ says that you shall love your neighbor.
Devotee (3): Prabhupāda, Jesus had a relationship with Kṛṣṇa, or God, as his father...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Jesus said, "I'm son of God," and Kṛṣṇa is God, that's all.
Devotee (3): Is there a spiritual planet where Kṛṣṇa plays the part of one's father?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Devotee (3): Is there a spiritual planet where Kṛṣṇa. . .
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is already father for everyone, either in spiritual or material. Father is father. Does it mean, if your father goes somewhere and the relationship changes, you become father and he becomes son? He's always father, either in this apartment or that apartment. So spiritual, material world means different atmosphere only. So father is always father, and son is always son.
Devotee (4): I have a question about the living entity, the spirit soul. Is the living entity in the area of the heart, in the heart, or in the lotus of the heart?
Prabhupāda: What is that? I could not follow.
Prabhupāda: Yes?
Devotee (1): Was Lord Jesus in pure Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: These are old questions, always asked. What is that, huh? What is that question?
Satsvarūpa: Was Lord Jesus in pure Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: Yes. He also taught about God. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means God consciousness. So why Jesus? Anyone speaks... But one must know. There are degrees. Just like a person... Somebody knows to some extent, other knows to some extent, other knows to some extent, other knows to some extent. Or somebody understands to some extent. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means complete understanding of Kṛṣṇa. Just like there are steps; if you want to go to the 104th floor, there are so many steps. So everyone is going, aiming, to that 104th, but one has covered ten steps, one has covered twenty, another hundred, like that. The aim is the same, but you cannot say that one who has already covered one hundred steps, he is as good as one who has covered two steps. There is that difference.
So to remain with family and children is no disqualification for spiritual advancement of life. That is not a disqualification because after all, one has to take his birth from the father and mother. So all great ācāryas, great spiritual leaders, after all, they have come from father and mother. So without combination of father and mother, even there is no possibility of begetting a great soul. There are many instances of great souls like Śaṅkarācārya, Lord Jesus Christ, Rāmānujācārya. Even they had no very high hereditary title, still, they came out from the gṛhasthas, father and mother. So gṛhastha, or the householder life, is not disqualification. We should not think it, that only the brahmacārīs or the sannyāsīs, they can elevate to the spiritual platform, whereas those who are living with wife and children, they cannot. No. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has clearly stated in Caitanya-caritāmṛta that
kibā vipra, kibā nyāsī, śūdra kene naya
- yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei 'guru' haya
- (CC Madhya 8.128)
Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "It doesn't matter whether a person is gṛhastha or a sannyāsī or a brāhmaṇa or not brāhmaṇa. It doesn't matter.
That dharma which teaches you how to love God. That dharma. That is first-class dharma. Otherwise, you stamp over "I am Christian," and do all nonsense; "I am Hindu," and do all nonsense. This will not help, simply by stamping. So many Christian gentlemen I meet. They cannot understand even Christianity that Lord Jesus Christ said, "Thou shalt not kill," and they are very busy simply in killing business. And still, they're Christians. First of all, let us see who is a Christian. Similarly, every religion, simply by rubber stamp, "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," but they do not know what is religion. They do not know. Therefore (in) the Bhāgavatam you'll find religion, religious person, who is a religious person first-class religion? Religious person means who has learned to love God. That is religious person. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje, ahaituky aprati... (SB 1.2.6). And this religion is universal. To love God, you don't require any education, don't require any rubber stamp. God is one, and you are part and parcel of God. You try to love.
He says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayo yāḥ (BG 14.4), ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: "I am the seed-giving father of all different forms of life." Kṛṣṇa claims that He is... Therefore, because He is the father of all living beings, therefore there is response from Europe and America. Otherwise what connection they have got? They have got their Jesus Christ or something else. But why they are attracted to Kṛṣṇa?
Because actually the father is the... Kṛṣṇa is the father not only of the human society—of the bird society, the beast society, dog society, cat society, everyone's father, sarva-yoniṣu. That is Kṛṣṇa. Try to understand Kṛṣṇa. And if you simply try to understand and little understand, then your life is successful. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). Simply by understanding even little, your life is successful. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Mahato bhayāt. This is bhaya. They do not know what is bhaya, fearfulness.
They accept God: "God created this," the beginning of Bible. That's a fact. So the God consciousness is there. "God is great," the God consciousness there. Now these Christmas holidays you have begun in your country. Throughout the whole month of December you'll observe nice festivals, festivities. Why? Where it began? God consciousness. Lord Christ he came to give you God consciousness, and in his relationship these festivities are going on. It may be degraded in another form. The beginning is God consciousness, but we have lost it. So people cannot be happy without reviving God consciousness. It may be named in a different way—"Kṛṣṇa consciousness." That means God consciousness. That is the necessity. He's trying to love somebody. That somebody's love will be perfected when he loves Kṛṣṇa or God. We are teaching that. Try to love God, and if you love God, if you love Kṛṣṇa, then automatically you love everybody. That is the perfection of love. The example is just like if you love your stomach, if you supply nice food to your stomach, that means you love all the parts of your body.
"Oh, it is so nice." Newspaper in the Western countries is so popular.
One gentleman told me a story that one Christian priest went to preach Christian religion in Sheffield. Sheffield, where is it? In England? So the workers, laborers, he was preaching amongst them that "Lord Jesus Christ will save you. If you don't take shelter of Lord Jesus Christ, then you'll go to hell." So first of all he, "Who is Jesus Christ? What is his number?" That means he, they thought, "Jesus Christ must be one of the workers, and every worker has a number, so what is his number?" So "No, Jesus Christ, he's son of God. So he has no number. He's not worker." Then "What is hell?" Then described, "Hell is very damp, very dark," and so on, so on. So they were silent. Because they are working in the mines. It is always dark and damp. (laughter) (Prabhupāda laughs) So what is the difference between hell and this, what is called, mine? They were silent. But when the priest said, "There is no newspaper," "Oh, horrible!" (laughter) There is no newspaper.
"Oh, great singer." And you are all, "Stop it! Stop it! Please stop it! Stop it. Stop it." This is going on. So all these leaders, all these rascals, they are all rascals. At least you must know. You may behave gentlemanly. That is your duty. But you should know that he is a rascal number one.
We don't hate anyone. Otherwise there will be no preaching. And Lord Jesus Christ said that you hate disease, not the man who is suffering from disease. That is very nice. So we shall hate this influence of māyā but not the man who is now under the influence. Then how we can preach? That is our business. Doctor knows that this man is infected with some serious disease. But if he hates, then he cannot make treatment. He requires treatment. So if he hates, "No. He is diseased. I cannot go there," then how can... So we shall hate this influence of māyā. We should know how māyā is acting, but still, we have to do our duty, preaching work on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, sometimes taking risk also. What can be done? This is the position of the world. All rascals, the so-called PhD, DAC, NAC.
Just like in Christian philosophy, they say, "The father and the son, the same." Is it not? Yes. So similarly, here the father and son, or the spiritual master and God, they are same, but at the same time not same. It is simultaneous. This is called acintya-bhedābheda-tattva, simultaneously one and different. I think the Christian philosophy is like that. Christ, son, and God, Holy Ghost—they are simultaneously one and different? Is that? So that is the position. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ, kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya **. So we can interpret... When the Christian people say that... Just like they say "only son." So we can interpret... Of course, we are not going to interpret. We can take it that anyone who becomes confidential... Just like father position. He has got many sons. One son who is very obedient, he says, "He is my only son, and others not sons." Does he not, father say, sometimes? "Actually he is my son." Sometimes father says like that. But that does not mean that he has got only one son. He has got many sons, but all of them are useless, worthless. He is only bona fide.
You know that? Why you are limiting? He is unlimited. The ordinary person can beget hundreds of thousands. Why God, unlimited, He should be restricted to one son? The interpretation should be... Anyway, that Tulasī dāsa says that if he is devotee, then he is son. Otherwise it is urine. The God has begotten many sons... Just like... The only worthy son was Jesus Christ—you can interpret it like that—because he was giving service to the Lord, to the father. He brought the message of father.
So our interpretation is like that, not that God has got only one son, but he is the only worthy son. All are mut. Anyone who is not God conscious, Kṛṣṇa conscious, mut put(?). Then? Read the purport.
And the more the age of Kali-yuga will increase, these things will also increase more and more, more and more. Later on, you won't get foodstuff. You will be obliged to kill some animal and eat. Now you have got alternative. But we are becoming very much fond of animals, so Kṛṣṇa will, or nature will make some arrangement that you cannot eat except animals. That day will come. You cannot eat, even if you do not like. Nobody will say, "I don't like." Everyone will like. So there will be no supply of wheat, no supply of rice, no supply of sugar, no supply of fruit. These things will be stopped. No supply of milk. These are stated. You won't get. Then naturally... Just like in Arabian desert, they were animal eaters. What is growing there? So if in Jerusalem, if they have eaten flesh, so that is not their fault. Jesus Christ might have allowed: "All right." But why in other places where there are so many nice foodstuff? What is the reason? If you don't get something... (someone calling in Japanese) Who is this?
Why you have come?" Immigration department. "Please go out. Please go out." This is civilization.
The Vedic civilization is... Therefore India was open to everyone: "Come on. Come here." Therefore they entered as friend, and they conquered. Because India was open. "Yes, you are guest. Come on. You learn here." Lord Jesus Christ also went there to learn. So they kept open everything. Para-upakāra. Still, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said... Whatever is done is done. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is speaking when it was already conquered by the Mohammedans, the Pathans, but still He said, "Those who have taken birth in India, they must do this para-upakāra, do good to others." He never said, "Don't allow anyone." The Mohammedans have come. He did not care whether Mohammedans comes or Christians come. He knew that "Indian culture is so strong, these rascals cannot do anything. They will come here and plunder for some years and then go away. That's all. So let them do that.
Please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Please be Kṛṣṇa conscious. Please be God conscious." Nobody likes it. They think it botheration, "Why Swamiji comes here and bothers us?" But it has become the business. Therefore the qualification of a saintly person is titikṣava, very tolerant, very tolerant. Just like Lord Jesus Christ, he was crucified. Still, he was so tolerant he, at the time of crucification, he's praying to God, "My Lord, these people do not know what they are doing. Please forgive them." Just see how much tolerant. Titikṣava. This is the first qualification of saintly person or God's servant or God's son. Very tolerant. They have to push on their Kṛṣṇa conscious movement or God conscious movement through so many odds. Through so many odds. Because they are just like the child; he's attracted with playthings.
So yoga means, here it is stated, yoga ādhyātmikaḥ puṁsāṁ mato niḥśreyasāya. Yoga system means to lead one to the ultimate benediction. And ādhyātmikaḥ.
They have to suffer so much trouble by the demons. Therefore we have already discussed that verse that, what is that? Titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ (SB 3.25.21). A santa means he has to suffer. Just see in the Western countries the Lord Jesus Christ. He was preaching about God, God consciousness. That was the only fault, and he was crucified. Just see. He was crucified. The state ordered him to be crucified because he is talking. Similarly, Hiraṇyakaśipu, his five-years-old body, he was talking only of Kṛṣṇa, Nārāyaṇa. So therefore his father became enemy. He was trying in so many ways to kill him. This is the very old story, that if you become a devotee, you must be prepared to be put into miserable condition by the demons. That is their business. Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ (BG 7.15). Asuras... Just like even Kṛṣṇa, even God Himself, He was attempted to be killed by Kaṁsa. Not only that, He engaged so many demons, Pūtanā, Aghāsura, Bakāsura, Mahīśāsura, so many asuras. But Kṛṣṇa is always Kṛṣṇa. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). He is able to finish these duṣkṛtas or the asuras by His omnipotency. That He can do. But the asuras are always... Their only business is to give trouble to God and His devotee.
This is advancement of spiritual life. I have heard one story from a gentleman, how newspaper is important in Western country. We have seen also big, big bunch of newspaper thrown in every door. They subscribe. So one priest was preaching among the miners in Sheffield, where there are many coal mines, in England. So he was speaking that "You become devotee, followers of Jesus Christ," and in this way he's preaching Bible. So one of the miners, he never heard of Bible nor Jesus Christ. So he inquired, "What is his number?" That means he thought Christ may be one of the miners, and they have got specific number. So he said, "No, you are mistaking. Jesus Christ is Lord. He is not one of you, like worker, no. He's Lord. So if you don't appreciate him, don't worship him, then you will go to hell." Then another man asked, "What is hell?" And he described that "Hell is very dark. It is very moist," and so on. "There is no air there, no light, and..." So they are living always in the mine. There was no response, because they are habituated with this hellish life. (laughing) So the description of hell did not appeal.
Great devotees like Bharata Mahārāja or Prahlāda Mahārāja, Haridāsa Ṭhākura, because they were very, very much advanced in spiritual consciousness, these ethereal activities on the external body did not touch them. Even in our Western world, Lord Jesus Christ, he was also crucified, but it did not touch him.
So this is to be practiced, that we should not be disturbed by the ethereal transformation in touch with the skin and be disturbed in our regular activities in devotional service. That is called sthita-prajña. In the... The word is used in the Bhagavad-gītā, sthita-prajña. So a devotee is sthita-prajña. He should not be disturbed by this material condition, or change of ethereal activities. We should be fixed up, ātma-stha, ātma-stha. And then our progress in spiritual life will be unhampered. Actually, as it is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, ahaituky apratihatā.
So my spiritual master has requested that I answer this question. We are functioning in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement on the basis of the Vedic literature, Vedic scriptures. Amongst these Vedic scriptures, we consider the Bible to be one. Lord Jesus Christ is teaching in the Bible that "You love first God with your whole heart and soul, and then you love your neighbor as yourself." My spiritual master is teaching that we are all part and parcel of God, and as part and parcel of God, our business is to render loving service to the Supreme Lord. You say that you are living love of God. But God says, then you will love your neighbor as yourself.
One who has attained perfect knowledge. Jñānavān means perfect knowledge. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: "He surrenders unto Me." That is the ultimate standard of knowledge, when one has fully surrendered unto Kṛṣṇa, or God. That means he has attained perfection. You have got very good instance like Lord Jesus Christ. He was fully surrendered unto God. Therefore he is so much worshiped. He is great. God is great. He is also great because he has fully surrendered. So this greatness means when you fully surrender unto the... (break)
...from austerity. What is that austerity? The physician says, "My dear such and such, you are suffering from fever. You should not take this food, that food, that food," or "You should not do like this, you should not go to such and such..." So many restrictions. Something do and something do not. So this austerity means do not. That is meant for human society. The animals, they follow also do not, but by their natural intuition. But we have got developed consciousness.
Our identity, magnitude, as stated in the Vedic literature, it is one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. It is very small. You cannot even imagine. So we are very small, but we can become the greatest, almost as good as God, if we engage ourself in the transcendental loving service of the Lord. You have got best example. Just like Lord Jesus Christ. He, he's worshiped as good as God because he dedicated everything for God. Similarly, if you also dedicate your life, your intelligence, your money... Prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā. By four things you can attain greatness, almost greatness like God. How? By engaging your life, your wealth, prāṇair arthair dhiyā, your intelligence... If you have no money, then you can apply your intelligence. If you have no intelligence, you can simply carry the words of God. In that way you can achieve the greatest perfection of life. If somebody has money, all right, he can spend for spreading this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. If he has no money, he can give his intelligence, how we can push on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Acyutānanda: Question: I believe in Kṛṣṇa but please clarify the following doubts. Lord Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, so when Kṛṣṇa is the only God in the world, the creator of the whole universe, then why the existence of Jesus Christ and Allah? Why should not only one God for all? Why Christians and Muslims are not accepting Kṛṣṇa as God?
Prabhupāda: They are accepting God, but they did not disclose the name of God because the people are unable to understand. "Kṛṣṇa" means "the all-attractive." That is the meaning of Kṛṣṇa. So unless God is all-attractive, how He can be God? "Kṛṣṇa" means all-attractive.
When one understands Kṛṣṇa... To understand Kṛṣṇa it takes little time. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye, yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3). So Kṛṣṇa revealed Himself in India before Arjuna, and what the others will understand about Kṛṣṇa unless he's advanced like Arjuna? So there are different persons, so different types of religion they have revealed. That is also Kṛṣṇa—but, to some extent. The full extent they cannot understand. Just like Lord Jesus Christ says "Thou shall not kill." Just imagine what the audience were. They are killers. So what they'll understand about Kṛṣṇa? Let them first stop this killing. Then the stage will come he'll understand what is Kṛṣṇa.
One who is sinful, the first instruction should be, "You stop your sinful activities." Then the opportunity will come to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is stated in the... Yeṣāṁ tu anta-gataṁ pāpam. One who is sinful, what he will understand about Kṛṣṇa? First of all, stop sinful activities. Then this stage will come, he'll understand Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Jesus Christ said, "You nonsense, stop killing." Then there will be time we'll understand one day Kṛṣṇa. So the first instruction is to stop sinful activities; then he'll be qualified.
That is called praśāntā. That is stated here, mahānta. This is mahānta, sama-cittāḥ praśāntā vimanyavaḥ. Vimanyavaḥ, because a devotee has to suffer so many tribulations. That is the history of all devotees. But he's never angry. He's never angry. Then he falls down. Vimanyavaḥ. Just like Lord Jesus Christ. He was being crucified; He still, He was praying, "God, these people they do not know what they are doing." Vimanyavaḥ, never angry. If he becomes angry, then who He'll preach? He's criticized for...
There is a description of sādhavaḥ in Kapiladeva's instruction that titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ (SB 3.25.21). Sādhu means very tolerant. That is taught by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā. So the first qualification of sādhu is titikṣavaḥ. And at the same time kāruṇikāḥ. There are many instances, just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. He tolerated so many tortures even by his father, titikṣavaḥ. And at the same time he was thinking, "How to deliver these persons who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious?" That is kāruṇikāḥ. He is personally being tortured, but at the same time he was thinking how to do good to others. This is sādhu. Titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām (BG 5.29), he's friend, not only to the human society, but he's friend to the ant even. A devotee does not like that even an ant should be killed. No.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa means the supreme lover and beloved. He attracts everyone. There is one Greek word, krista. The meaning is the same, "love." And from this krista the word Christ has come. So this word Christ also has connection with Kṛṣṇa.
Acyutānanda: How to see Lord Kṛṣṇa? Can anybody see Him by chanting the holy name Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra? Is it possible for a human being in his short period of life?
Prabhupāda: Yes. If he develops love for Kṛṣṇa. That I have explained the other day, premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). If you develop love for Kṛṣṇa, premā, premā pum-artho mahān, that is the recommendation by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu that dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90) is not the aim of life. Premā pum-artho mahān. After liberation.
I shall be kind to him," "He is black, I shall be kind to him." No. Everyone. Pāṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Sama-cittāḥ. This is the qualification of great soul. There is no distinction that "He is such and such person. Therefore I have no business with him." No. The preaching Kṛṣṇa is preaching to everyone. Christ is preaching to everyone. They are called mahānta. Mahānta means great soul.
So here it is said, mahāntas te sama-cittāḥ praśāntā, always very peaceful. Prakṛṣṭa-rūpeṇa śāntā. There is no disturbance. Because he knows himself, he is not disturbed by any material conditions. Ahaituky apratihatā. Spiritual advancement of life is never hindered by any material condition. It is not that "I am under such and such condition. I cannot make any advancement in spiritual life." No. Spiritual advancement is never checked by material condition. Therefore it is said praśāntā. Vimanyavaḥ: "He is never angry, never angry." Vimanyavaḥ suhṛdaḥ. Su... And well-wisher for everyone. That is the vision of mahānta. He is seeing that "Without God consciousness, without his relationship with God, he is suffering." Suhṛdaḥ sādhavaḥ. Sādhava, sādhu. The sum and substance... Sādhu means saintly person.
The sum and substance... Sādhu means saintly person. So who is saintly person? Titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhūtānām (SB 3.25.21). Sādhu means, saintly person means, titikṣava, tolerant, tolerant, without being disturbed. Now, in the Western countries Lord Jesus Christ, the tolerant. He is being crucified; still, he is praying to God, "Please excuse them." So of course, his position is different. One should try to become sādhu. Sādhavaḥ. Titikṣava kāruṇikāḥ suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhūtānām. So the sum and substance of sādhu means being, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, māṁ ca vyabhi... Api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). If one is staunchly adhered to the service of the Lord, he is called sādhu, saintly person, sādhava. Mahāntas te sama-cittāḥ praśāntā vimanyavaḥ suhṛdaḥ sādhavo ye. These are the qualification of mahātmā, great soul.
Guest (4): Do you believe that Jesus and Buddha and Kṛṣṇa are manifestations of the same God? Or do you believe Kṛṣṇa is the only...?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Do we believe that Jesus and Buddha and Kṛṣṇa are all manifestations of the same God, or do we believe that Kṛṣṇa is the only one?
Prabhupāda: No. They are manifestation of God. That is all right. We say, keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare: "O my Lord Buddha, now you have come as Buddha, but you are the same Kṛṣṇa." We pray like that.
Guest (5): I would like to ask this question. You said that Hare Kṛṣṇa helps us along with the path of God realization. Take a simple thing like assuming I was hungry and I said, "food, food, food." That will not necessarily fill me. I'll still be hungry. How could the mere repetition of words bring about God realization?
Prabhupāda: "Food, food, food." (laughter) That is the difference between God's name and material name. In the material name the food, the name of food and actually food—rice, dahl, capati, food—they are different. They are different. But in the spiritual world, God and His name is the same.
These are the examples of suhṛdaḥ. He's not ordinary friend. Ordinary friend, that is reciprocation: "If you do me, then I shall do to you. Otherwise not." But suhṛdaḥ means the other side does not do anything benefit, but one side is always willing. That is called suhṛdaḥ. Similarly, a mahātmā, he is not well received. He is criticized, insulted, sometimes injured. Still, he wants Just like Lord Jesus Christ. He was so badly treated and still he was thinking, "Father, they do not know what they are doing. Please excuse." This is suhṛdaḥ. He is praying to God This is sādhu, mahātmā. Suhṛdaḥ praśāntā. Not that... In India there are examples like Haridasa Ṭhākura, Prahlāda Mahārāja. And the Western countries also, Lord Jesus Christ, he is śaktyāveśa-avatāra, God's son. And he tolerated so much. These are the examples of mahātmā. Don't misunderstand that we are preaching that mahātmās are only in India. No. By the order of the Supreme Personality of Godhead there are mahātmās even amongst the birds, even amongst the beasts, even amongst the lower than animals. Because this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is going on in different places, in different circumstances. That is God's desire. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham (BG 4.7). So Kṛṣṇa wants this. Just like in your country there is welfare activities by the government.
It is not that by some means or by some artificial, what is called, hypnotism, we are making these European or American boys, girls kṛṣṇa-bhakta. No. It is there already, kṛṣṇa-bhakti. Otherwise why they should take to Kṛṣṇa? They have got their other, I mean to say, worshipable. There is Jesus, Jesus Christ, and others. Mostly they are coming from Christian family. Why they should agree to worship Kṛṣṇa? No, it is there already. It is not that because they are born in Europe and America they are different from Kṛṣṇa's relationship. No.
Kṛṣṇa claims, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā. Kṛṣṇa has relationship not only in the human society, in animal society, in bird society, in plant society, in insect society, in demigod society. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). He doesn't claim that "I am interested with the Indians," or "the Hindus" or "the brāhmaṇas," or "this." No. He claims all forms of body. So therefore these foreigners, so-called foreigners, they have got already relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti. Every living entity has got relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). How they can be separate? It is not possible. But they forgot it. And this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to revive their original consciousness. Śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye... "Oh, I am Kṛṣṇa's." As soon as this consciousness comes, he becomes perfect. It is already there. Nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti śrādhya kabhu naya, śravaṇādi.
Order him that you beat this man in twenty-one..., cane, caning." So Haridāsa Ṭhākura was beaten in public market. The idea was that beating, he would die. But he did not die. Then the, I mean to say, men who were given in charge to beat him, they became afraid, that "If this man is not dead, then the Kazi will take us very seriously that we have not beaten him seriously." So they began to flatter him, "Sir, unless you die, we'll be dead. Our life is in great danger." So Haridāsa Ṭhākura made a show of death, and he was brought before the Kazi that "Here, the body is dead."
So sometimes this kind of tribulation are there. Jesus Christ, what was his fault? He was preaching about God, or Kṛṣṇa. That was his fault and he was crucified. So this is the world. This is the world. As soon as you become... This is māyā's arrangement. Māyā, as soon as she sees that "This man is going out of my hand," she'll put so many tribulations, and we have to tolerate them.
So this is our position, and therefore a preacher devotee is so, I mean to say, favorite to Kṛṣṇa. They have to meet actually dangerous persons, krūraḥ persons. Just see. Jesus Christ, what fault he had? He was preaching about God, and he was crucified. Crucified. That is in your country, a very good example. Simply his fault was he was talking of God, that's all, and he was crucified. So we have to meet. Our Nityānanda Prabhu, He also met that Jagāi-Mādhāi. Of course, He delivered them. Nityānanda Prabhu is so kind that in spite of being stroken and blood came out from His head, still, He continued to say, "My dear friends, never mind you have injured Me. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." So the preaching is so difficult thing. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said, na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścid me priya kṛttamaḥ. It is not very sitting idly, comfortably, and discuss Vedānta. No. It is not like that. Preaching practically. Practically meeting dangerous position because sympathetic. Saṁsāra dāvānala. The whole world is in blazing fire. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Vaiṣṇava is para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. And that is his qualification. For him there is no difficulty.
You cannot kill by your whims." In the battlefield the commander-in-chief orders, "Yes, you kill and get gold medal." But if you think the, "I have killed so many persons in the battlefield. Here is my enemy. I kill him." No. That you cannot do. That you cannot do. This is the principle. When there is duty, that is another thing. But not whimsically. We cannot kill. Therefore Lord Jesus Christ ordered, "Thou shall not kill." This is the order. "Thou shall not kill." But we are violating the order. We are killing so many animals. So this is not good. On the plea that "Lord Christ sometimes took some fish somewhere; therefore we will have to maintain a big slaughterhouse," this is not very good logic.
So anyway, we have to act according to the superior order. And so far the spirit soul is concerned, that is the first lesson of spiritual knowledge. Unless you understand what is spirit... We are present here. The body is there and the spirit is there. Now we must analyze according to the direction given in authoritative books. That is very easy. Kṛṣṇa says that within this body there is the spirit soul. And we can experience that unless the spirit soul is there, the body does not change, and as soon as the spirit soul goes away, the body is a dead lump of matter. That's all.
"My life is meant for other purpose." That is called siddhi, perfection, "How I shall make my life perfect?" This desire arises in one man out of millions. And they are simply engaged, how to satisfy senses perfectly. But that will never be done. A sane man thinks that "I have done it so many lives. I have not been satisfied. I have not become perfection. Then where is perfection?" That inquisitiveness makes him eligible. Just like ādau śraddhā. I have already explained. So after becoming siddha, perfect... Perfect means one must know that "I am not this body; I am soul," ahaṁ brahmāsmi. That is perfection of knowledge. So Kṛṣṇa says, yatatām api siddhānām: (BG 7.3) "Those who have become perfect, out of many millions of them, one can understand what I am." It is not so easy to understand God. But if you take the process as is recommended in the śāstras by saintly person, then it is easy. Otherwise it is not easy. If you speculate to understand God, that is not possible. Then you go on and many, many years speculating. You will never understand God. Either you take the shelter of Lord Jesus Christ or Kṛṣṇa, if you follow his instruction—this is the way of understanding—then you will understand. But if you don't care for his instruction, then you will never understand. This is the process. Hmm.
We are also as living entity, as good living entity as Kṛṣṇa or God. God is also living entity, we are also living entity. Just like father and son. The father is also living entity and the son is also living entity. There is no difference so far living conditions are there. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's sons, or God or God's sons. Now, in the Bible, Lord Jesus Christ is described as the son of God. Now, so far I have heard, that it is claimed that he is the only one son of God. Now according to Bhagavad-gītā, every living entity is son of God. Now how to adjust? If the Bible says that Lord Jesus Christ is the only one son, then how these so many innumerable sons can be adjusted? There is adjustment. There is very nice adjustment. One should know it. He is the only one son means one who can sacrifice his life for God, he is real son. And one who is simply taking from father, "Oh, God, give us our daily bread," and He is supplying and eating and enjoying sense enjoyement, he is not real son. The real son is he who sacrifices his life for glorifying his father. Similarly, anyone who will sacrifice his life... Of course, it is not required that everyone shall be crucified like Lord Jesus Christ, but he should sacrifice his energy for the Supreme Lord. And that person who has devoted his energy for the satisfaction of the Supreme Lord, he is called Kṛṣṇa conscious person.
So these all description of hellish description has been given in the previous chapter. Now, Parīkṣit Mahārāja, he is a Vaiṣṇava. A Vaiṣṇava, Vaiṣṇava feeling... Vaiṣṇava means he is always feeling for the distress of the others. Just like Lord Jesus Christ. What is the necessity of being crucified? Because he was a Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava means the servant of God or the devotee of God, Vaiṣṇava. Viṣṇu means Lord, and Vaiṣṇava means one who is devotee of Viṣṇu, he is called Vaiṣṇava. Godly. Godly person. Vaiṣṇava means godly person. So every godly person, he thinks for others. "Oh, people are suffering for want of knowledge, for want of God consciousness, for want of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Oh, let me do some service. Let me enlighten them so that they may be happy." Therefore we offer our obeisances to the Vaiṣṇavas: vāñchā-kalpa-tarubhyaś ca kṛpā-sindhubhya eva ca. Vāñchā-kalpa-taru means that "My dear devotee, you are just like a desire tree. Whatever I desire from you, you fulfill." Vāñchā-kalpa-tarubhyaś ca kṛpā-sindhubhya eva ca. Kṛpā means mercy. "You are the ocean of mercy." And patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo, "And you are deliverer of the fallen souls. Therefore I offer my obeisances unto you." It is very nice to offer respect to a godly person. Is described very nicely. Why?
He was only sixteen years old and he was not even properly dressed, but God kindly sent him for instructing this king. So he is asking, "Mahā-bhāga, can you explain how these suffering men can be delivered from this hellish suffering?" So he was feeling. This is the sentiment of Vaiṣṇava. They cannot see the suffering humanity. They always try to reform them and to get them as... Not only the devotees; the Lord also, He is so compassionate He sends His son, His most confidential son, Jesus Christ. He comes Himself, He sends His incarnation, He sends His knowledge. Just like this Bhagavad-gītā is knowledge. He speaks Himself about this knowledge. His representatives are there by disciplic succession. So we can take advantage of all these things. Still, there is Kṛṣṇa. Still there is speaking Kṛṣṇa and His representative, and everything is there. Simply we have to take advantage. That's all. But the spell of māyā is so strong that it does not allow.
Revatīnandana: There's one example I just remembered from the Christian Gospel. Jesus was accustomed to heal diseased people. And one time they brought a leper or somebody with a very bad disease before him. Or he was blind or something. And they asked him, "Can you heal this man?" And instead of saying, "Be free from leprosy," he said, "Your sins are forgiven." And they said, "Oh, what is this? We don't want you to forgive his sins. We want you to cure his disease." Jesus said, "What is the difference? Your sins are forgiven you." And when he said that the man's disease was healed and then he said, "Now go away and sin no more."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Revatīnandana: That was a reference about karma. Those who do not understand... It was a lesson on karma.
Prabhupāda: So there is no value of this question of the atheist. They do not know what is the meaning of going to the church or going to the temple or church or spiritual master. That is a foolish question. The church does not allow. But if the church does not disclose this fact, that "Oh, I see every week you come. What is this nonsense?" But the priest, they get some money and they want to continue their church business to get some money. So this is going on, cheating and cheated.
So this question was raised by Parīkṣit Mahārāja that "You have already described." He did not disbelieve. He believed. Because he is Vaiṣṇava, he knows. And he is disciple of Śukadeva Gosvāmī, so he has thorough knowledge. Now he is anxious. This is the symptom of Vaiṣṇava, that he cannot see others are suffering. Therefore he takes. Just like Lord Jesus Christ, Vaiṣṇava. For others' suffering he agreed to be crucified. But the followers are so unfaithful, they have settled up that "Let Christ suffer for us, and let us go on committing sin." Very good conclusion. They love Christ so, that "My dear Christ, you suffer for our sinful activities and let us go on with our sinful activities." Christ says, "Thou shall not kill." They decided, "Let us kill on and on, and open scientific slaughterhouse. And if there is any sin, then Christ will suffer. That's all. He has taken the agency on suffering." Very good conclusion. No. The Vaiṣṇava can take the sufferings for you, but you should be sane, that "Why I shall put such and such Vaiṣṇava into suffering for my sinful activity? Let me stop this sinful activity." That is intelligent.
They love Christ so, that "My dear Christ, you suffer for our sinful activities and let us go on with our sinful activities." Christ says, "Thou shall not kill." They decided, "Let us kill on and on, and open scientific slaughterhouse. And if there is any sin, then Christ will suffer. That's all. He has taken the agency on suffering." Very good conclusion. No. The Vaiṣṇava can take the sufferings for you, but you should be sane, that "Why I shall put such and such Vaiṣṇava into suffering for my sinful activity? Let me stop this sinful activity." That is intelligent. Not that "I give the suffering portion to Christ, and let me go on committing all sinful activities." That is not... But that will not be. That is not a fact. Suppose one is very pet son of his father, and he commits murder, and he thinks "If there is any punishment my father will suffer." Will it be done? Will it be done? When he is arrested, if he says, "No, you can release me. You can arrest my father because I am very pet son of my father," so will the government will do that, that you have committed murder and your father will be arrested? No. This is quite unreasonable.
So why not try?" This is Nityānanda Prabhu, that para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. He is happy personally, but because He knows that "These drunkards, woman-hunters, prostitute-hunters, will suffer very, very severely, so why not deliver them?" This is Nityānanda Prabhu, Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava, you will find so many others also. In your country there is Lord Jesus Christ. When he was being crucified, still he was saying, "My Lord, excuse them. They do not know what they are doing." This is Vaiṣṇava. They are not unhappy, and they can tolerate any unhappy position. But they are... Therefore they come to deliver so many fallen souls.
So here Parīkṣit Mahārāja, out of compassion, he inquired from Śukadeva Gosvāmī, "These persons, they are rotting in the naraka. Is there any means to deliver them?" That he's saying. Nānā ugra-yātanā. Ugra-yātanā. These are described. We find also, there are many persons, they are suffering ugra-yāta. Ugra means severe, severe punishment. There are living entities, they are suffering so many ugra-yātanā. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to save people from the severe punishment of materialistic life.
"Sir, I have heard from you about many hellish planetary description, and the men who are very much sinful, they are put into those planets." But Parīkṣit Mahārāja is a Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava is always feeling for others' distress. That is Vaiṣṇava. (aside:) Don't make this sound. (indistinct) Vaiṣṇava—para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. They're very much afflicted with others', I mean to say, miserable life. Just like Lord Jesus Christ, he presented himself as very much afflicted with others' miserable condition of life. So all the Vaiṣṇavas, devotees... It doesn't matter which country he belongs to or which sect he belongs to. Anyone who is God-conscious or Kṛṣṇa conscious... Therefore to blaspheme a Vaiṣṇava, a preacher of God's glory, is great offense. Kṛṣṇa, or God, will never tolerate offense on the lotus feet of a Vaiṣṇava. So here Parīkṣit Mahārāja is asking... Because he's a Vaiṣṇava. Mind that. A Vaiṣṇava is actually feeling... Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī kṛpāmbudhi. These are the adjectives of the qualifications. (aside:) Sit down. Kṛpāmbudhi means ocean of mercy, kṛpāmbudhi.
So he became very much anxious, "Oh, so many people are suffering in the hellish condition?" So he immediately asked his spiritual master, "Kindly let me know how these living entities who are suffering in this way can be saved, can be delivered from the severe pain of hellish condition of life." This was his question. So the answer is given that,
- na ced ihaivāpacitiṁ yathāṁhasaḥ
- kṛtasya kuryān mana-ukta-pāṇibhiḥ
- dhruvaṁ sa vai pretya narakān upaiti
- ye kīrtitā me bhavatas tigma-yātanāḥ
"My dear Parīkṣit, if, before the end of the life..." We are committing so many sinful activities. We are committing so many sinful activities. Just like in the Western countries they are killing so many birds and beasts, especially cows, thousands and thousands. They are all becoming implicated. You have no right. Even Christ said, "Thou shalt not kill." (aside, to someone fiddling with tape recorder:) What is that business? Stop it. Who is making this "kut, kut"?
The tree has taken birth. The man has taken birth. Why simply man should be saved, not the cows, not the trees? (break) He must be saved. This is the government's duty. Unnecessarily there cannot be any killing. Lord Christ also, "Thou shall not kill." Yes, this is the beginning of religious life. If you are accustomed to kill somebody, either man, animal, trees, fish, anything, there is no entrance in religious life. There is no entrance because everyone, every living entity, is son of God. Sarva-yoniṣu. You have read Bhagavad-gītā. Sarva-yoniṣu: in all sorts of body. Sarva-yoniṣu sambhavanti mūrtayo yaḥ. There are different forms of life, 8,400,000. They are all living entities, but according to karma, they have got different bodies. This is the difference. Just like we have got different dresses according to my choice, similarly, we get different bodies according to my choice. This morning we were talking about the sufferers, what is called? The sea suffers?
The laws of nature are very subtle. They are very diligently administered. People do not know it. So on the whole, the Manu-saṁhitā, life for life is sanctioned. And that is practically observed all over the world. But similarly, there are other laws, that you cannot kill even an ant. Then you are responsible. You have no right to kill. And in the Bible also, we see, Lord Jesus Christ says, "Thou shalt not kill." So killing is not allowed in any religious principle. Anyone who is killing, he's not considered in the human society. You cannot kill. The... Lord Buddha's also principle is ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ, no killing. Lord Jesus Christ also says, "Thou shalt not kill." In our Bhagavad-gītā it is also said, amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā (BG 13.8). Ahiṁsā means not to become violent, not to kill.
So as there is state laws that you shall be killed if you kill your fellow man, similarly in the God's law there are the same thing. Not only man; if you kill anyone, then you'll have to suffer, because everyone is God's creature. They are in different dress only. He's considered the supreme father.
So Parīkṣit Mahārāja inquired from Sūta Gosvāmī, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, how the people in general, rotting in hellish life, could be saved. This is the desire of a Vaiṣṇava. Others, they do not care whether one is suffering or enjoying. But a Vaiṣṇava, a devotee of the Lord, he always thinks of the fallen condition of general people. Just like in Christian philosophy they believe that Lord Jesus Christ suffered to be crucified by assimilating all the sinful activities of the people. Yes. A devotee of Lord thinks like that. Similar devotee was Vāsudeva Datta, Lord Caitanya's... He requested the Lord that "You have come. Kindly deliver all these people now present on this earth, and take them to Vaikuṇṭha. And if You think that they are so sinful that they cannot be delivered, then please transfer all their sins unto me. I shall suffer. You take them." This is Vaiṣṇava: "So for all their sins, I shall suffer. You take them." This philosophy is also expressed in Bible, Lord Jesus Christ, that he agreed to suffer himself for the sins of all the people. But that does not mean that Jesus Christ or Vāsudeva Datta should make a contract for ourself and we shall go on committing sins. This is most heinous proposal. A Vaiṣṇava and a devotee suffers for all humanity, human race. But that does not mean that human race, or the particular followers should take advantage of this facility and go on committing sins. That is not a good proposal. They should take rather seriously, that "Lord Jesus Christ or Vāsudeva Datta who has suffered for us so much, we shall stop committing sins now." That is sane proposal.
That is sane proposal. Otherwise, if I think, "Well, there is Vāsudeva Datta and Lord Jesus Christ. He will suffer for us and let us go on merry-making. That's all." A most heinous life.
Anyway, everyone is responsible for his sinful activities. That's a fact. Therefore Śukadeva Gosvāmī recommends that tasmāt, "Therefore," puraiva āśu iha pāpa-niṣkṛtau, "so long you are in this body, in order to get yourself free from all the reaction of sinful activities, you should atone." Yateta mṛtyor avipadyata, avipadyatātmanā, doṣasya dṛṣṭvā guru-lāghavaṁ yathā bhiṣak cikitseta rujāṁ nidānavit (SB 6.1.8). According to the sinful activities, one should accept the prescription and program of atonement exactly like a..., a physician prescribes different type of medicines according to the gravity of the disease. The other day I was explaining. Just like the state law is that if you commit a murder, if you kill your fellow man, then you have to atone that sinful activity by being killed, by offering your life.
That is God's law. There is no excuse that he..., when you kill a man you are punishable, but when you kill an animal you are not punishable. This is concoction. This is not perfect law. Perfect law. Therefore Lord Jesus Christ prescribes in the Ten Commandments: "Thou shalt not kill." That is perfect law. Not that you shall discriminate that "I shall not kill man, but I shall kill animals." This is cheating one's self. The God laws will not excuse.
Therefore there are different atonements. According to Vedic law, if one cow dies while he's locked up on the neck... Because the cow is on the safe.(?) Somehow or other, it dies and the rope is round the neck, the proprietor of the cow has to make some atonement. Because it is to be supposed that the cow has died on account of being locked up with the rope, there is atonement. Now if you are willingly killing cows and so many animals, so how much we are being responsible? Therefore at the present moment there is war, and the human society becomes subjected to be killed in mass massacre—the nature's law. You cannot stop war and go on killing animals. That is not possible.
They do not believe that there is next life, but dismantle this material condition of life. That is their nirvāṇa theory. Because Buddha philosophy was taught not amongst very intelligent person, atheist class of men. So that is punar... They are also trying for punar-janma-jayāya. The Christians, the Lord Christ, he also said that "Come to kingdom of God," not repetition of birth here again and again. That is the principle of all religious system. Punar-janma-jayāya. So it is not for the Hindus, Muslim, or Christian. Every human being should try his best, how to avoid to get another material body. This is the basic principle of civilization. But this can be attained only when you agree to live a regulative life. Just like we see one..., what is called? "Repent sinners." What is that? (laughter) Every day we go, see that. So one must be repentant for his sinful activities. One must know what are sinful activities. Apart from any other scripture, in Christian scripture it is said, "Thou shall not kill. Thou shall not covet.
So sādhu, they have to preach. They have to preach. Therefore the first qualification is titikṣavaḥ, tolerant. So many people will criticize, so many people attack, so many opposing elements, and he has to fight with them. Therefore titikṣavaḥ, toleration. Just like you see, Lord Jesus Christ is so tolerant that he was crucified; still, he did not curse anybody. This is sādhu: titikṣavaḥ, tolerant. The very great example of tolerance, Christ, Jesus Christ. So similarly, Haridāsa Ṭhākura. There are many saintly persons, sādhu, who were very tolerant. So first qualification of sādhu is titikṣavaḥ. Titikṣavaḥ and kāruṇikāḥ: at the same time, kind. These two examples we find in the character of Lord Jesus Christ. He was being crucified, and still he was praying to God, "My Lord, they do not know what they are doing." Did he not?
Still, he was praying to God that "These rascals are doing. They cannot kill me, but they are thinking that I will be killed. So they are committing offense." So this is toleration, and kāruṇikāḥ. Similarly, there are many examples. Titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ, and suhṛdaḥ sarva-dehinām: (SB 3.25.21) friend of all living entities. Lord Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." He never said that... Now they are interpreting in a different way: "The animal has no soul, and you can kill animals and keep slaughterhouse." So who is a Christian? I do not know who is a Christian. They profess to be Christian. It is very difficult to find out a true Christian who is strictly following the words of Lord Jesus Christ. So he is a good example of sādhu. We therefore adore and offer our obeisances to Lord Christ. Sādhu, example. Titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ suhṛdaḥ sarva-dehinām (SB 3.25.21). This is suhṛdaḥ, not that "My brother will be saved, my family will be saved, and all others should be killed." That is not sādhu's qualification. Sādhu's qualification is he is kind to everyone. It is not that if a human being is killed, the killer is also killed. Why?
Then you become suśīla, well behaved. And if you go on killing animals and drinking wine and gambling, when you will be suśīla? You are always bad character.
Here it is said suśīla, "well behaved," "good character." Suśīlāḥ sādhavaḥ. Sādhavaḥ, character like ideal. You have got ideal, Lord Jesus Christ. Suśīlāḥ sādhavaḥ nārāyaṇa... Why? Nārāyaṇa-parāyaṇāḥ: because they are devotee of Nārāyaṇa. If you become simply nārāyaṇa-parāyaṇa, devotee of Nārāyaṇa or Kṛṣṇa, all good qualities will come to you automatically. All good qualities. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ (SB 5.18.12). Take practical example. These boys, these girls, how they have become so nice? They are known as "bright-faced." Why? Because nārāyaṇa-parāyaṇāḥ: they have taken seriously Kṛṣṇa as the object of worship. So actually if you want happiness within this world, peace, and prosperity, just become Kṛṣṇa conscious. All problems will be solved and you will be happy.
This is the definition of a sādhu. What is that? Titikṣava, very, very tolerant. Just see Christ, ideal character. How tolerant he is. He was being crucified; still he is merciful. Similarly, anywhere, those who are actually sādhu, saintly persons, they are very tolerant. Kṣamā-rūpa tapasvinām. That is the qualification of sādhu: titikṣava. At the same time kāruṇika, merciful. The others are torturing him, but still he is merciful.
That is the qualification of sādhu. Titikṣava kāruṇikā. Why? Suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhūtānām: "He is friend of everyone." There is no distinction that "He is American," "He is Indian," "He is Christian," "He is Hindu," "He is dog," "He is cat," "He is man..." No. He is kind to everyone. Why we are preaching "No meat-eating"? If you stop meat-eating, then the poor animals will be saved. So what business we have got with the animals? Suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhūtānām. A saintly person is friend to everyone. "Why unnecessarily an animal should be killed?" That is his feeling. You can eat animals because by nature this is the arrangement, that ahastāni sa-hastānām. Even we eat vegetable, that is also killing.
Revatīnandana: I have a question. One of my prabhus told me that you once said that your Guru Mahārāja said that Jesus Christ was a śaktyāveśāvatāra. Is that correct?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because he said it, it must be correct. Muhammad also, śaktyāveśāvatāra. Śaktyāveśāvatāra means a living entity is especially empowered to preach the glories of the Lord. Lord Buddha is also śaktyāveśāvatāra. They are not ordinary human being. They are especially empowered personalities.
Devotee (1): Lord Buddha is not an incarnation?
Prabhupāda: Incarnation. Avatāra means incarnation.
Devotee (1): So that means incarnation also?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Śaktyāveśāvatāra means incarnation with special power.
Revatīnandana: It's stated in the Bhāgavatam that there are two kinds of incarnations. One is a plenary portion, and the other is an empowered living entity. They're both incarnations.
So that is fixed up. But as there is some exceptional cases... Just like one has committed murder, so by law he must be hanged. By law. That is the general law everywhere, all over the world: life for life. So similarly, in the God's law there is no such thing that if you kill a human being you'll be killed, and if you kill an animal you won't be killed. That is imperfect law, man-made law. Therefore Jesus Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." No question of... They have modified, "This killing means murdering." Christ does not say. What is your proof that if you committed mistake, a mistake, instead of writing "Thou shall not commit murder," here is written, "Thou shall not kill," general. Otherwise Christ has no intelligence. He cannot use the proper word. But you are misusing the order of Lord Christ.
So you are suffering. You are maintaining so many slaughterhouses, and when it will be mature, there will be war, the wholesale murder. Finished. One atom bomb—finished. You'll have to suffer. Don't think that "Innocent animals, they cannot protest. Let us kill and eat." No. You'll be also punished.
"Thou shall not kill." No question of... They have modified, "This killing means murdering." Christ does not say. What is your proof that if you committed mistake, a mistake, instead of writing "Thou shall not commit murder," here is written, "Thou shall not kill," general. Otherwise Christ has no intelligence. He cannot use the proper word. But you are misusing the order of Lord Christ.
So you are suffering. You are maintaining so many slaughterhouses, and when it will be mature, there will be war, the wholesale murder. Finished. One atom bomb—finished. You'll have to suffer. Don't think that "Innocent animals, they cannot protest. Let us kill and eat." No. You'll be also punished. Wait for accumulation of your sinful activities, and there will be war, and the America will drop the atom bomb, and Russia will be finished. Both will be finished. Go on now enjoying. It takes time. Just like even if you infect some disease, it takes time. Not that immediately you infect, and immediately the disease is there. No. It takes a week's time or so. What is called?
This is another conclusion. The searching process may be different according to the country, climate, but if the ultimate goal is God, then that is accepted as religion. Just like Christian religion. Christian religion, they are also searching after God—Lord Jesus Christ advising, "Be lover of God." He presents himself as son of God. The Muhammadan, Muhammad, he also presented himself as servant of God. In this way, everyone is accepting. Or if anyone is accepting God as the ultimate goal of religious process, that is also Vedic. Because Kṛṣṇa says that vedaiś ca sarvair aham. And a godless scripture, that is not accepted as religion. Therefore in India, although Lord Buddha appeared in India—he was a kṣatriya, and he started some religious principle—it is not accepted because it is not, in the Buddha religion, there is no acceptance of God or soul.
So these are some of the points. But the Bhāgavata says that although in the Buddha religion there is no, I mean to say, mention of worshiping God, but Lord Buddha is himself incarnation of God, and he induced his followers to worship him. Therefore in the Bhāgavata it is said that he cheated the atheists.
So Lord Buddha converted Ashoka, Emperor Ashoka, to this religion. Therefore whole India became Buddhist. And later on, when Buddhism was driven out of India, the Jainism and similar other religious principles became visible. Ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ. Lord Buddha... Ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ is also Vedic religion, but they stressed especially on ahiṁsā. In the Bhagavad-gītā you will find: amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam (BG 13.8). These are the different steps of progressing in knowledge and religion. The first thing is amānitvam. Amānitvam means very humble. Very humble. And therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu teaches that tṛṇād api sunīcena, "Just become humbler than the straw in the street or grass." To become religious means... Lord Jesus Christ also, he taught like that—"The humble and meek will attain the kingdom of God." Is it not said like that?
So every religion, the highest principle of any religion is there in Vaiṣṇavites, or the followers of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Any best thing, in any religion, you will find in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore it is perfect. Buddha religion teaches ahiṁsā; the Kṛṣṇa conscious people are ahiṁsā. Lord Jesus teaches love of God; they are the best lover of God. And Hindu religion teaches liberation; they are... As soon as they become Kṛṣṇa conscious, immediately they are liberated, immediately, instantly. There is no question of asking for liberation. Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura says liberation means... What is that? Liberation from this material hankering. And what is that material hankering? To satisfy the senses. So these devotees, they are not for satisfying their senses. They are simply trying to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa said that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). They are determined to preach this cult, that "You surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Therefore they are actual representative of Kṛṣṇa. Immediately they are liberated. So, so far liberation is concerned, there is.
Anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje (SB 1.7.6). Great learned sages, saintly persons, they're always thinking how the people will be happy Vaisvana. Para duḥkha-duḥkhi: he is always unhappy for unhappiness of the people in general, public. That is Vaiṣṇava. Para duḥkha-duḥkhi. Just like in the Western country Lord Jesus Christ, he was unhappy for others. So that is the business of devotee, God's son or God's devotee. That is the duty, that people are suffering on account of proper knowledge, and the most grievous ignorance is without any knowledge of God. That is the most dangerous ignorance. Because human life is meant for understanding God. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. But they do not care to understand God. Then animal life: "Where is food, where is sex, where is apartment, and where is defense force?" this is going on.
Therefore the challenge was that "Now explain what is dharma." So they're explaining. Mind that. They are not educated themselves, but their education is by hearing from the authority. Iti śuśruma. This is real education.
He was atheist. He did not believe in God. So he asked his son, "Why you are chanting 'Nārāyaṇa'?" "Nārāyaṇa is God, the Supreme Lord." "Eh? Supreme Lord? I am Supreme Lord. You chant my name." The boy will not hear. So there was enmity. He was persecuted. So not in this age, devotees are supposed to be persecuted all the time. Christ was crucified. So this is the position of the devotee in the material world, that they become very easily enemy of the demons. But the devotees are not afraid of the demons.
So the purport is that yadā nārāyaṇa āyeti jagāda catur-akṣaram. So Ajāmila was benefited, although he did not know the distinction between pious and impious activities on account of too much attachment with this material world. He was the husband of a prostitute, and he got some children. So to maintain the family and children he used to adopt any means. Never mind. He did not know what is sinful and what is not sinful. But his only credit was that he was chanting "Nārāyaṇa." He was chanting "Nārāyaṇa." It does not mean knowingly we shall commit sinful activities and chant "Nārāyaṇa." It is not meant, that. He did not know what is sin, what is not sin, what is Nārāyaṇa, but circumstantially he was doing all the sinful activities; at the same time he was chanting "Nārāyaṇa."
Just like in Christian religion there is the direction that if anyone is sinful he should go to a priest and confess that "I have committed these things." And if the priest or the father who is supposed to be representative of God or Christ, if he excuses for his confession, then his sinful activities become null and void. Here it is said, na niṣkṛtair uditair brahma-vādibhis tathā viśuddhyaty aghavān. Just try to understand that this direction cannot purify the sinful man so nicely because the same man who has confessed that "I have committed these sins," he again comes out of the church and again commits the same sin. Therefore he is not purified. He is not purified. Here it is said, na viśuddhyaty aghavān vratādibhiḥ. It is not only in Christian religion. In every religion there are some prescribed method that... Accepting as a matter of fact that every man is sinful, therefore in religious scriptures there are certain methods to purify them. But here the Viṣṇudūta says that these prescribed methods, although they are authorized and fact, but they cannot purify the heart of the follower of that religion. And you can see that as our Hindu-Muslim religion, even they perform the ritualistic ceremonies, they do not cease from committing the sins. Just like a rascal patient. He goes to the physician. The physician gives some medicine and gives some direction that "You take this medicine. Do not do this.
So you don't think that because one has become Kṛṣṇa conscious, he has no enemy. Don't judge in that way: "Oh, he is Kṛṣṇa conscious. Why there is enemy? Why somebody criticizes him? Why one finds fault with him? Then he is not kṛṣṇa-bhakta." The enemies will do that. That is enemies' business. Even Kṛṣṇa has enemy; why not the... Just like Jesus Christ, he had enemies. He was killed by the enemies. Sometimes it so happened. Haridāsa Ṭhākura had enemies. So enemies there will be. Because he has got enemy, therefore it is not that he is kṛṣṇa-bhakta. He is kṛṣṇa-bhakta, even having his enemies, just like Kṛṣṇa, despite having enemies, is Kṛṣṇa. But the difference is that Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's bhakta will never be defeated by the enemies. That is the distinction. Enemies may have, but he will never be defeated. God or God's devotee cannot be defeated by the enemies. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa's declaration will be false. He says, kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31).
Before his birth he was taught by Nārada Muni. Therefore naturally he was in devotional service. So he was executing, the boy. Devotional service... If one is devotee, he cannot sit down silently. He wants to preach God's glories to others, even at the risk of life, like Lord Jesus Christ did it. Even at the risk of life, he preached God consciousness. That is the duty of a devotee. Lord Nityānanda did it, Haridāsa Ṭhākura did it. There are many instances; a devotee risked even life for preaching glories of God. So Prahlāda Mahārāja also did that. He knew that "My father is nothing but a ferocious animal, Hiraṇyakaśipu." Even big, big demigods would be threatened by his red eyes. He was so powerful. Still, he was executing devotional service at the risk of life. And he was put to so many dangerous condition of life. Still, he did not give up. Then, if we try to understand Prahlāda Mahārāja's character... Now, at the present moment the teacher said that, naisargikīyaṁ matir asya rājan. "My dear king, your boy, this tendency of God consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is by nature. We never taught him. Please don't be angry with us unnecessarily." Niyaccha manyum. "Please give up your anger." Niyaccha manyuṁ kad adāḥ sma mā naḥ. "Don't degrade us in that way."
"Well, the bellow can breathe, but it cannot eat." "Oh, the dogs and hogs, they do not eat?" There are so many questions and answers in the Bhāgavata. But actually, population, important population means who are conversant with the science of God. That is important population. Otherwise, what is the use of living? Śaṅkarācārya lived for 32 years, and Lord Jesus Christ, I think, he also lived similarly. Lord Caitanya lived for 48 years. But their philosophy and God consciousness is so important, they are still living. Kalpante sthayinā guṇāḥ. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita said, āyuṣaḥ kṣaṇa vidyanti. Āyuṣaḥ kṣaṇa vidyanti. Āyuṣaḥ means this duration of life, it can be finished at any moment, but kalpante sthayinā guṇāḥ. But if you are a qualified man then your qualities will be remembered for many, many thousands of years. Therefore live for the best qualities, to acquire the best qualities, God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Guest: The body is Krish-na. Krish-na (indistinct), Christ. Body of Christ, the whole(holy?) spirit.
Prabhupāda: Body of Christ is not ordinary body. That is spiritual body. Kṛṣṇa, as Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7), paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām, dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya yuge yuge sambhavāmi ātma-māyayā (BG 4.8). So this is a very subtle point. One has to understand that when God comes or God's son comes or God's representative comes, they do not accept a body like us. They have their spiritual body.
Guest: Kṛṣṇa means Christ. He's the whole spirit. We are in the body of man. That is the body of God.
Prabhupāda: The body of man is not exactly body of God. There is no difference between the body and soul of God because it is spiritual. The soul is spiritual, the body is spiritual. Just like if you have got your golden body and golden soul, there is no difference between the soul and body. But in our case, we, as we are, we are spirit soul but this body is material, therefore I am different from this body. But when you are liberated, we get spiritual body, similar, at that time, as Kṛṣṇa has no difference between His body and soul, similarly, we also have no difference between body and soul. But at the present moment we have got difference with the body and soul.
So whatever your idea of God may be, that must be impressed from the childhood, that "There is God." Actually there is God. To deny God or "God is dead" is simply rascaldom. So whatever religion or sect you may profess, the Prahlāda Mahārāja says that one should have the idea of God consciousness. We don't say, neither Prahlāda Mahārāja says, that Kṛṣṇa conscious. Of course, Kṛṣṇa means God. But if somebody has got objection, Kṛṣṇa, because this name is Indian name or Sanskrit name or Kṛṣṇa appeared Himself in India, it doesn't matter. We are concerned with the philosophy, with the teachings. Just like Buddha. He was also Indian. He was Hindu, kṣatriya. And why Buddhism is accepted by so many people of the world? Whole Japan, whole China, Burma, and... Why? The philosophy is concerned. Just like Christian, Christian religion. Lord Jesus Christ, he appeared in Jordan. But... Jordan or Jerusalem?
Parame brahmaṇi ko 'pi na lagnaḥ. Oh, everyone is busy. Nobody's interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, spiritual life. Everyone is busy. How they are spoiling their life! That is the version of Śaṅkarācārya. He's lamenting, that the boys, the youths, the old man, they are very happy in their materialistic way of life, but a spiritualistic man like Śaṅkarācārya or Lord Jesus Christ, they are unhappy, "Oh, what foolish things they are doing." That is the thankless task of persons who are spiritually enlightened. They can see it plain that how they are spoiling their valuable life. Simply for sense gratification.
So Prahlāda Mahārāja is practically instructed the same thing, that kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān (SB 7.6.1). Dharmān bhāgavatān iha Bhāgavatān dharmaḥ. Dharma means your occupational duty. The "religion," word "religion," translation of the Sanskrit word, dharma, is not perfect. Is not perfect. Religion is a kind of faith. That we can change. But dharma, dharma means your occupational duty. You cannot change. You have to execute it. What is our dharma?
These things are depending on our practice. Because actually, I don't depend on sleeping or eating or mating or defending. It is simply due to my bodily consciousness these things are required. But when one is actually spiritually advanced, he has no such appreciation. Just like Lord Jesus Christ, he was crucified, but he never protested because he had no bodily consciousness at all. So when one is spiritually advanced, there is no bodily consciousness. But we should not imitate. That requires advancement, as we have mentioned. Nothing has to be done in hasty. But if you follow the rules and regulation, then someday it will be experienced that how we have spiritually advanced. Just like if you go on eating, not in the first morsel, second morsel, you become immediately satisfied. But when you are full in your satisfaction of hunger you feel happiness, you feel strength. Similarly, we have to follow the spiritual process, and gradually as we develop we become free from all these demands of the body. There was Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī, he was eating only say a few grains of butter every alternate day. Only a few grains of butter only. Every alternate day he was eating. So eating is also nonessential to one who is spiritual advanced. And so-called sex life, oh, that can be given up from the very beginning.
Devotee (1): What is the relationship between Lord Kṛṣṇa and Lord Jesus Christ?
Prabhupāda: Oh, that you know. What do you ask me? What is Lord Jesus Christ? Don't you know?
Devotee (1): The son of God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore relationship is father and son. But there is no difference between father and son. Both of them are authorized. Just like your father, and if you are a trustworthy son of your father, then the work done by your father and by you is the same.
Devotee (2): Swamijī, Kṛṣṇa being the cause of all causes, how can (we) use our individuality if we are always under His direction?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Devotee (2): If we are always under Kṛṣṇa's direction, how is it we can use our individuality?
I am very aristocratic. So for me there is no need of." The Indians say like that in your country. "Now we have known this Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. We have... Now it is not needed. Now it is technology."
So these puffed-up persons cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. One has to become very humble. Christ also says, "The kingdom of God is for the humble and the meek." That is actually... And Kṛṣṇa also says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). This is the beginning of humbleness: "Yes, I have nothing, insignificant." Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān mām (BG 7.19). This is real knowledge, to remain always insignificant before guru—Kṛṣṇa. Then it is profit. If somebody thinks that "I have become more than my guru, more than Kṛṣṇa," then he is finished. So one should become very humble and meek. It doesn't matter where he is situated, either this institutionally, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. Even one has taken sannyāsa, he should remain always humble. So never we should think that "I have become very big personality." That was the instruction of my Guru Mahārāja, that baḍa vaiṣṇava—"I am very big Vaiṣṇava. Everyone should come and obey my orders"—this is condemned position.
It does not mean that because one is mahā-bhāgavata he should not be put into trials. He can be put into trials, because the material world is like that. The western country, they, Lord Jesus Christ, he was put into trials but he never forgot Kṛṣṇa. This is sign of mahā-bhāgavata, nitya-siddha.
- gaurāṅgera saṅgi-gaṇe nitya-siddha kori 'māne
- se jāy brajenda-nandana pāś
If one can understand nitya-siddha bhāgavata, then he immediately becomes eligible to go back to home, to back to godhead. This is the privilege of associating with mahā-bhāgavata. So our system is, (child crying—aside:) try and maintain (?). Evaṁ paramparā, to associate with the mahā-bhāgavata by words or by physical exposition (?). So mahā-bhāgavata arbhakaḥ. One may argue, arbhakaḥ means foolish child, who has no knowledge, he is called arbhakaḥ. How we can say mahā-bhāgavata? Arbhakaḥ, he has no knowledge. No. It is possible. Ahaituky apratihatā. Bhakti does not depend on age, or on advanced knowledge, or richness, or so many other things. Janmaiśvarya-śruta-śrī (SB 1.8.26).
They will do that. Just like... Why this police and public? This poor, innocent boy, five years old, because he was chanting, his father became his enemy. His father, what to speak of others. So it is such a thing. In any... You try to trace out the history of the world, you'll find always persons who are for Kṛṣṇa or God, they have been persecuted. Lord Jesus Christ was crucified, Haridāsa Ṭhākura was caned in twenty-two market places, Prahlāda Mahārāja was tortured by his father. So there may be such things. Of course, Kṛṣṇa will protect us. So don't be afraid. Don't be afraid if somebody tortures us, somebody teases us. We must go on with Kṛṣṇa consciousness without any hesitation, and Kṛṣṇa will give us protect. If you are more tortured, then Kṛṣṇa will appear as Nṛsiṁha-deva and give you all protection. You are all Prahlāda, representative of Prahlāda. You keep your confidence in Kṛṣṇa, and He will give you protection, and go on chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) "Give up everything. Simply surrender unto Me."
So the Vedas indicate therefore that mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). If you want to understand the Absolute Truth, then you have to follow great personalities, great devotees. Just like in the Western world, Lord Jesus Christ, you have to follow his principles. This is all right, his Ten Commandments. But we do not follow. We simply fight. "Oh, I am Christian, you are Hindu," "I am Muhammadan," "I am this." Nobody tries to follow. You see? That is not the way. You have to follow. If you believe in certain personality... Of course, not believe, not blind believing. He must be authority. Therefore in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam they have indicated twelve authorities. According to Vedic version, there are twelve authorities, and one of them is Prahlāda Mahārāja.
If anyone has control over these six things, then he can become spiritual master. Pṛthiviṁ sa śiṣyāt: "He is allowed to make disciples all over the world." Otherwise not. These are the qualification of brāhmaṇa. Satyam śaucam śama dama titikṣā (BG 18.42). Titikṣā means tolerance. Just like in your Western countries, Lord Jesus Christ, he was being crucified. He tolerated. He never cursed even. He, rather, begged from God, "My God, these people do not know what they are doing. Please excuse them." This is toleration. So satyam śaucam sama dama titikṣā. Toleration. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has instructed, tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā. Tolerance. What kind of tolerance? Tolerance like the straw in the street, like the tree. Amāninā mānadena kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). There are so many instances. Let us finish it briefly.
So śaucam, satyaṁ śaucaṁ śamaṁ damaṁ titikṣā ārjavam. Simplicity. A brāhmaṇa should be very simple, not gorgeous. He wants to live, so he wants to eat something, not for the taste of the tongue but just to keep the body and soul together.
Why they're endeavoring? Because Kṛṣṇa wants it. Kṛṣṇa wants it. God wants it. Why God wants it? Because we are all sons of God. We have gone to dog. Instead of going to God, we have gone to dog. Therefore God is very anxious to reclaim us. He comes therefore in person, Kṛṣṇa. He sends His son, Lord Jesus Christ, or He sends His devotee. He leaves behind Him the books like Bhagavad-gītā or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam or many other such literatures. Why? To reclaim these obstinate, bewildered sons of God. They have forgotten God, and they are, instead of loving God, they are now loving dog. Therefore God is very anxious. It is natural. If a father is very rich man and he has got many sons, he wants to see the sons very happy. But if the sons go away from home and becomes crazy, do not come back home, the father is more anxious than the son. The son does not understand that what is his precarious condition of life in this material world, but God understands that how much in miserable condition he's living. Threefold miserable condition of this material existence.
I put them in such abominable life that they'll never be able to understand Me." That is the greatest punishment. For a living being, if he forgets God, Kṛṣṇa, in any condition of life, it is the greatest punishment. They're thinking that "We are happy without this nonsense God consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness." They are the most condemned, most condemned. I think Lord Jesus Christ has said like this, "If anyone gains the whole world and forgets God and self, then what does he gain?" In the Bhāgavata also it is said, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. We... Everyone is born fool. Just like this child. The child... Everyone knows that child is a fool. Everyone knows. So if the child commits some mistake, does some wrong thing, nobody takes care of him. "Child. He's a fool." Or animal. If the cat comes and immediately gets up on the throne, sit down, so we take it is our fault that we allowed the cat, but we don't take the cat as offender because it is fool, animal. You see? But if you go and sit down there, then everyone will be: "Oh, you are so rascal that you are going to sit down there?" So human being is so responsible.
Then your life is successful.
So Prahlāda Mahārāja, therefore, taking courage, that the material qualifications are not assets to approach God, but it is only devotional service, service attitude. "Kṛṣṇa, or God, I love You. I can sacrifice You... I can sacrifice everything for You." Just like Lord Jesus Christ. He sacrificed even his life. The gopīs, they also sacrificed everything for Kṛṣṇa. This is wanted. The degree of sacrifice, the degree of attachment is taken into consideration by God, not any material opulence. So Prahlāda Mahārāja is encouraged. Tasmād ahaṁ vigata-viklava īśvarasya sarvātmanā mahi gṛṇāmi yathā manīṣam: "Therefore I shall try to offer my prayers according to my capacity." It is not that because one does not know Sanskrit or a particular type of language and he cannot pray very nicely with poetic simile, metaphors... These things are not required. Simply you have to open your feelings of love of Godhead. Then He's pleased. It does not depend on the particular type of language or poetic ideas. No.
Because we have got a different consciousness, therefore we are fearful. If you are Kṛṣṇa conscious, then we can never be fearful. Nārāyaṇa-paraḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati: (SB 6.17.28) "One who is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is not afraid of anything." Several times I have given you this example: especially Lord Jesus Christ, he was not fearful. When he was punished to be crucified, he never cared for it. So these are... There are many examples in the history, in the scriptures, that those who are Kṛṣṇa conscious or God conscious, they are not fearful. Prahlāda Mahārāja himself. He was five-years-old boy, and his father was teasing him, "Oh, you cannot become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Who is Kṛṣṇa?" Atheistic: "You cannot do that. It is my order." He several times pleaded, "My dear father, why you are talking like this? You are also servant of Kṛṣṇa." So he never cared for it. Ultimately he wanted to kill his five-years-old boy, and Lord Nṛsiṁha-deva appeared. And this prayer is in connection with that.
Rukmiṇī: Is there a Christ-loka?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not? There are innumerable lokas. Why not Christ-loka? (break)
- ...jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-
- koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam
- tad brahma niśkalam anantam aśeṣa-bhūtaṁ
- govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
In the effulgence, bodily effulgence of Govinda, just like the sunshine is effulgence of the sun planet, similarly, Govinda's planet, the original planet, which is called Goloka Vṛndāvana, that is the original effulgence, light. And when that light is distributed there are innumerable universes created. Just like within the sunlight there are innumerable planets. So in each and every planet there are different kinds of living entities, so why not a planet belonging to Christ? There is no doubt about it. There must be. (break) The Fifth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the description of different planets are there. (break) Question?
Janārdana: You're not supposed to ask from God anything for yourself. So you can ask from God maybe things to help improve your consciousness?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Why more dangerous? Mantrauśādhi-vaśaḥ sarpaḥ khalaḥ kena nivāryate. You can subdue a snake by herbs and by chanting particular type of mantra. There are many snake charmers in India, by mantra they can charm the snakes. But a person who is envious, you cannot pacify him in any way. Therefore sarpaḥ krūrataraḥ khalaḥ. Just like Jesus Christ was crucified by some envious persons. Even the Roman judge denied that "This man should not be... There is no such fault." But because they were envious, they were persistent, "Yes, he should be crucified." So this is the nature of envious person. Therefore killing of envious persons like Hiraṇyakaśipu... Unnecessarily... He was a child. Prahlāda Mahārāja was a child, innocent child. And his son, and youngest son. And his only fault was that he was chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. And this person was after him, giving him all kinds of trouble. Just see the nature of the envious person. He doesn't care even his son, a child, a devotee. "Oh, this boy must be tortured. This boy must be tortured because he is Kṛṣṇa conscious." "This man must be crucified because he is preaching God consciousness." This is the nature of envious persons. More dangerous.
Everybody says... The government says, "Don't steal." The śāstra, scriptures, they also say, "Don't drink. Don't steal. Don't do this. Don't." All forbidden. But I steal. So that is sva-karmabhiḥ. There is forbidding everywhere, but still, I steal. Then whose fault it is? It is government's fault or my fault? If I kill, I'll be hanged. "Thou shall not kill." Lord Christ says, "Thou shall not kill." But if I kill, then I must suffer. But they say, give some false argument, "Lord Christ says, 'Thou shall not kill' and if I kill, Christ has taken the contract that whatever sinful activities we do, he will excuse." This is Christian document. They say that "Our Christ is so kind that whatever sinful activities we do, he will suffer for us." Is it not? This is Christian theory. Just see foolishness. "You do something, and I suffer for that." No. You have to suffer. You have done something wrong; you must suffer. This is the real philosophy, sva-karmabhiḥ uśattama te 'ṅghri-mūlaṁ prītaḥ apavarga-śaraṇaṁ.
Even valuable jewel is lying on the street, a paṇḍita will say, "I shall not touch it." This is a moral education. And ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu. Ātmavat. If you feel some pain by pinching, why should you pinch others? And that is paṇḍita. If you cry when your throat is cut with a knife, why you should slaughter other animals? Therefore Lord Christ says, "Thou shall not kill." But these people are so uneducated. In spite of their Ph.D.s, they have no, this simple education, that "I suffer when I am killed. Why I shall kill others?" This is the modern education, all nonsense rascals' education. This is not education.
So if we have to become father and mother, we shall have to teach our children in such a way that next life, no more material life. He goes back to home, back to Godhead. That is real father and mother. Therefore it is said, balasya neha śaraṇaṁ nṛsiṁha pitarau. If the father, mother do not know how to give protection to the children, then what is the use of taking shelter? Huh? In Prema-vivarta it is said, janame janame sabe pitā mātā pāya, kṛṣṇa guru nahe mile bhaja hari ei. Every... Cats and dogs, they also get father and mother. Without father, mother, who can take birth? So to become the father, mother, like cats and dogs, that is not human civilization.
His little son, he was crying. I have seen it. He was crying. Because he's innocent child, he could not tolerate. He was crying. And the father was saying, "Why you are crying? Why you are crying? It is very nice." Just see. So without being devotee a man will become cruel, cruel, cruel, cruel, cruel, in this way go to hell. And devotee cannot tolerate. We have studied in the life of Lord Jesus Christ. When he saw that in the Jewish synagogue the birds were being killed, he became shocked. He therefore left. Jes... He inaugurated the Christian religion. Perhaps you know. He was shocked by this animal-killing. And therefore his first commandment is "Thou shall not kill." But the foolish Christians, instead of following his instruction, they are opening daily slaughterhouse.
So unless one becomes a perfect devotee, he cannot become a bhadra, gentleman. That is not possible. Narādhamāḥ. Kṛṣṇa says. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Unless one is a devotee, he is a duskrtina, most sinful man, narādhamāḥ, and the lowest of the human being.
| Page Title: | Jesus (Lectures, SB) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 17 of Aug, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=119, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 119 |