Jesus (Conv. 1974)

Expressions researched:
"Christ" |"Christ's" |"Jesus Christ" |"Jesus christ's" |"Jesus" |"Jesus's"

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 5, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So at the time of danger they'll go away. Very good. (devotees laugh)

Bali Mardana: Lord Jesus came to save the fallen souls...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bali Mardana: ...they are all running away.

Prabhupāda: They are so good Christian that at the time of danger, they're all going away to Canada. Just see-afraid of death, even though they are preaching themselves, priest, they are also the same common man, afraid of death. And if we people keep to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we are not afraid of death. For going from one place to another, that's all.

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: ...from politics to the world of theology. One of the most misunderstood passages in the western scriptures, things that are..., most speculation about, is the beginning of the Book of John, where it is said, "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God." And that Greek word is logos. And so many people have said so many different things about that passage. No one really understands it.

Prabhupāda: They cannot understand the Absolute. God and God's word are not different. Otherwise, why we are after Bhagavad-gītā? Because Bhagavad-gītā is the words of God. So as good as God.

Umāpati: Absolute?

Prabhupāda: Absolute, yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We also say that. We say that the beginning the sound vibration oṁ was there. Oṁ.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Śabdād anāvṛtti. In Vedānta-sūtra, śabdād anāvṛtti. Śabdāt. By vibration.

Prajāpati: But it goes on to say, "Then the word then came down to earth and dwelt with man as Jesus Christ." They say Lord Jesus Christ was the word incarnate.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Umāpati: Incarnate means flesh, having come down in flesh.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Morning Walk -- January 15, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Just like Jesus Christ says that there was many things to be said by, by...

Bali Mardana: "There are many things, but I can, but you cannot, I have to tell you, but you cannot bear them now."

Prabhupāda: Yes, so that means he's first-class, but he comes to the second-class platform or third-class platform to teach the third-class, second-class person. He's first class. Son of God cannot be second-class or third-class. He must be first-class. But... Just like Lord Buddha. He's God Himself, but He said nothing about God because he knew that "These rascals, they will not be able to... Let them stop meat-eating, that's all. Let them become sinless first of all; then they will be able..." So his main preaching was ahiṁsā, non-violence, no meat-eating. But still, they violate that. Jesus Christ also preached, "Thou shall not kill," but these rascals, all violating. And still, they are proclaiming as Christian and Buddhist. No religion will, real religion, will allow this kind of violence, no religion. It is cheating religion. Dharmaḥ kaitavaḥ: Any religion committing unnecessary violence to the animals, (it is) third-class. It is not religion, it is cheating. Simply cheating.

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Sarve sukhina... Everyone be happy. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We want to see everyone to be happy. That's all.

Dr. Patel: I, but, this is naturally me, if I see, of course... Then naturally... The great Jesus Christ, great bhakta of God. (some other men talk in background) But Christians, they have, they are...

Prabhupāda: No, no. These, they may be low grade. They may be inferior, but if we are superior, we must act as superior.

Dr. Patel: That's right.

Prabhupāda: That is our movement.

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Why shall I ask them to be? I asked them, "Just become lover of God. That's all. If you can love God through your religion, that's all right. You do that." I said that. I never said that "You become Hindu." Then I would not have been able to...

Dr. Patel: I think that they must understand, sir, that Hinduism is a way of life and not a religion. Religion is a Vedic religion, which is common to Christianity. I would say that Jesus Christ has taught the Vedic religion to the Middle East and to the heathens and he was crucified because the heathens were not able to understand him properly. That is what my, I mean, convictions, strong conviction is that Jesus had actually preached Hinduism, I mean Vedic religion there.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he was...

Dr. Patel: And all religions are in fact Vedic.

Prabhupāda: He was educated of his spiritual life in India. Twelve years here. Twelve years he was. And he lived in Jagannātha temple.

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Because I have studied the whole of Bible, whole of New Testament and Genesis and everything, very well, just as I have studied the Upaniṣads. And I have come to realize that Jesus has taught Vedic religion in total, and Christ was nothing but a great saint of ancient Vedic religion. That is my conjecture, my conviction. They (indistinct) may think anything else.

Prabhupāda: His commandments proved that. He said, "Thou shall not kill."

Dr. Patel: "Thou shall not kill."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: You see, abhayaṁ sattva. First thing is abhaya. Abhaya-dāna, when you give, it is the greatest dāna. That is the first principle of all the religions, and that is the religion Christ taught there. The Middle East people and the Europeans had no what we call saṁskāra. Those people are very backwards, towards India's backside. Because of the climatic conditions.

Prabhupāda: No, from the First Commandment it appears that they were not very enlightened because why does he say "Thou shall not kill"? That means they were killers.

Dr. Patel: They were killing. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: They were killers.

Morning Walk -- February 20, 1974, Bombay:

Yaśomatīnandana: Actually, this is so true, Prabhupāda, because even in the western world, they are Christians. They may be fallen Christians, but they don't think they are Christ. They may be fallen. They may not follow the principles...

Prabhupāda: They say "Christ is God."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, they also make mistakes.

Prabhupāda: They also make that mistake.

Yaśomatīnandana: No, they are mistaken. That is, they understand their position is servant, but...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This, this philosophy, that there's allegory, that Kṛṣṇa never danced with gopīs, that...

Prabhupāda: That is...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...directly leads to Māyāvādī philosophy.

Prabhupāda: That is Māyāvādī.

Morning Walk -- February 22, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They must suffer. And they're suffering. Still, they're blind.

Dr. Patel: So-called followers of Christianity actually killing Christ every day.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Why do you take Christianity? Everyone. Everyone.

Dr. Patel: No, but they are majority. They...

Prabhupāda: Everyone. Your Hindus also.

Dr. Patel: We have degenerated because we have been ruled by foreigners for so many years. But these fellows, being so free in thinking and doing things, they...

Prabhupāda: You see. Following of religious principle does not depend on foreign rule or home rule.

Morning Walk -- February 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Jews, they have got.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. That was one of the things that Jesus was against.

Prabhupāda: Shocked. Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That the Jews were sacrificing animals in the temple. (pause)

Nitāi: Excuse me. (Microphone ruffles)

Prabhupāda: Don't come very near.

Nitāi: I'm sorry. (break)

Prabhupāda: No, no. People will know our position.

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...Kṛṣṇa. Definitely. (break) ...not independently. (break)

Guest (5): ...why the Jesus says you offer the other cheek? Which is better? Is the choice of us to be violent or nonviolent?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The persons to whom Jesus Christ taught, they were already fighting. Therefore his first injunction is "Thou shalt not kill." They were already killers. You see? And Arjuna is a gentleman. He was thinking before killing. Therefore he has to be induced, "You kill like this." But they were already killers. Otherwise why Jesus Christ said, "Thou shalt not kill"? That means that society was accustomed to kill. (break) Yes, that (indistinct) circumstance.

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ah, that is contradictory. You said... Sometimes you say that Kṛṣṇa has got many names...

Dr. Patel: If I say, "Christ, Christ, Christ," it is, also goes to Kṛṣṇa.

Indian man (4): But do you think all the medicines are equal?

Dr. Patel: Yes, yes, there are some potent medicines, all are equal. And there is Kṛṣṇa and there is Christ and there is Bhagavān and there is Viṣṇu and there is Rāma. The same medicine with multiple names. Okay?

Indian man (4): Well, then it is the same disease.

Dr. Patel: All the disease, one medicine.

Prabhupāda: Then why don't you prescribe a particular...

Dr. Patel: Because this is supernatural. This is not ordinary medicine. This is not the medicine of earthly things. This is the medicine of super things. That is why one name, all. What do you want to say in this interpretation? Because we are not dealing with earth here. We are dealing with spiritual things. And... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...sane body cannot prescribe one medicine for everyone.

Morning Walk -- April 6, 1974, Bombay:

Acyutānanda: But as Arjuna he acts as an ordinary jīva?

Prabhupāda: Yes, there are different types of śaktyāveṣa avatāra. So when an ordinary jīva is specially empowered, he is called śaktya aveṣa avatāra, śatktyaveṣa avatāra, vibhūti. Yad yad vibhūtimat sattvam. He is living entity, but especially empowered. Just like for certain business I give sometimes somebody power of attorney, that "He will do this. He will sign for me." Like that. He is also one of the disciples, but for particular purpose, he is given the power of attorney. In this way when a living entity is empowered specifically to do something, that is called śaktyāveṣa avatāra. Aveṣa avatāra. Kṛṣṇa śakti vinā nāhe nāma pracāra. That is explained in the... These are explained in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. (break) ...śaktya. Mama tejo-'ṁśa-sambhavam. So śaktyāveṣa avatāra is not viṣṇu-tattva. He is jīva-tattva. So the Lord Jesus Christ or Lord Buddha, they come within the jīva-tattva especial power.

Bhāgavata: They are śaktyāveṣa avatāras.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: No, no, we shall come to the Muslims next. First of all let us talk with the Christians.

Satsvarūpa: We are always arguing with them. They say they are following. They are allowed to kill animals.

Pañcadraviḍa: "I am accepting Christ. Therefore I am saved. I am following closely Christianity."

Prabhupāda: No, no. If you love God, then why you are disobeying His order. That is my charge, first thing. God says, "Thou shalt not kill," but why you are killing? This is the charge I give to the Christians.

Satsvarūpa: Yes, you always do that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There they are captured.

Pañcadraviḍa: But everybody is killing.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is business. That is not love. I go to somebody and flatter him to get something. Just like a shopkeeper does also like that. He flatters the customers in so many ways to sell goods so that he can make some profit. So there is no question of love.

Akṣayānanda: But that "I am following Jesus Christ and I am a vegetarian," so that's all right, isn't it?

Prabhupāda: I am following Jesus Christ?

Akṣayānanda: That "I am a vegetarian. I do not eat meat. I don't kill. I do not kill."

Prabhupāda: Oh, therefore I am a better Christian, better than you. Love... Therefore the Bhāgavata is perfect. Bhāgavata says that... Bhagavad-gītā says... Kṛṣṇa says that patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). So we are obeying Kṛṣṇa. We offer patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ. And we eat the remains of the foodstuff. Therefore we love. That is the proof. But you are not loving Jesus Christ because you are disobeying the order.

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: The thing is that we must eat something. And vegetables also have got life. The nature's way is that one living entity is eating another living entity. It may be animal or it may be vegetable. The question is the obedience to the order of God. So when Jesus Christ says that "Thou shalt not kill," it means bigger animals. Killing is applied, from dictionary, if I kill a man, if I kill an animal, then this word is used. So he meant like that. And that is very reasonable. Because I am eating another living entity, that does not I can eat another man. So therefore Kṛṣṇa has specifically mentioned, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). After all, we have to eat. And if you take that all killing is the same, even by ordinary law, if I kill one tree, and if I kill one man, does it mean it is of the same degree? Even taking killing of plant, so there are comparative. But it is also necessity that we must eat something. So therefore here, perfect thing in the Bhagavad-gītā, that He says that "You offer Me."

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: But that means you are foolish and pope is also foolish. If he does not follow the orders of Jesus Christ, then how he becomes a pope? Therefore you are foolish. You have elected some foolish, another foolish man as your pope. That should be the right answer, that "If he does not follow Christ, how he becomes pope?"

Pañcadraviḍa: He is not killing.

Prabhupāda: Then why he is appointed as head? He must order. Otherwise if you are not following pope, then you are not Christian. He does not kill, then you should not kill. And why does he not order?

Pañcadraviḍa: He himself is eating meat. So it must be all right.

Prabhupāda: Then how he is pope?

Pañcadraviḍa: But he is knowing what Christianity is the best. Therefore he is in charge. He says it is all right to eat meat.

Prabhupāda: No, no, how... Then first of all how you can elect him as in charge? Then you are fool.

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Then hundreds of years you are fool. Therefore you are intelligent? Does it mean?

Pañcadraviḍa: But when Jesus said, "Thou shalt not kill," he meant humans; he did not mean animals.

Prabhupāda: That is your interpretation.

Akṣayānanda: But Jesus was a shepherd and there were many, many sheep. What did they do with all the sheep?

Prabhupāda: They eat?

Pañcadraviḍa: They must.

Prabhupāda: They must. That is your inference.

Pañcadraviḍa: What else...? In the middle of desert...? Babylon, Israel is all desert country. What will they do with sheep? They are not making wool coats.

Prabhupāda: Then why he has said, "Thou shalt not kill"? Then hypocrisy. Then you reject Jesus complete. He is a hypocrite. Yes. That is the conclusion. How can you follow hypocrite? Huh? Is that all right? If Jesus Christ himself killed animals and he said, "Thou shalt not kill," then he is a hypocrite. Then he cannot preach. He is a hypocrite. You are bringing Christ for condemnation.

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Akṣayānanda: He himself, the Christian is saying that Jesus Christ is a hypocrite.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Akṣayānanda: So why is he following?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pañcadraviḍa: They still eat the sheep.

Satsvarūpa: The main thing they usually say is that kill means murder. That man at Bhaktivedanta Manor, that priest, he said the original Hebrew, the word means "murder." So this is an instruction to mankind not to murder, but it is not... But they have other places in the scripture where they point out that the animal is allowed for man to eat. So they just were showing us their scriptures.

Prabhupāda: It is said, "It is murder."

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Then why you have changed?

Pañcadraviḍa: Because the Old Testament never mentions Christ, but the New Testament is all about Christ.

Prabhupāda: Then it is rejected. If you have changed the tenets of Old Testament, that means you have rejected.

Pañcadraviḍa: No, not changed. In Old Testament the messiaḥ, he is predicted, but activities of the messiaḥ, they are not given.

Prabhupāda: The question is the Old Testament, you say that there was the word "murder." Why you have changed? You accept Old Testament or reject?

Satsvarūpa: Accept the statement should be "murder."

Prabhupāda: But why it is "kill"?

Pañcadraviḍa: Wrong translation.

Prabhupāda: Wrong translation.

Pañcadraviḍa: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Then where is this nonsense? How he can say? Actually, Christians cannot eat any meat because the word is "Thou shalt not kill." (break)

Pañcadraviḍa: Christ Himself was distributing fish, to the hungry, to the poor. He gave out so much fish.

Prabhupāda: That was not killing fish. That is my support.

Pañcadraviḍa: We do not kill the fish either. We simply purchase it in the supermarket.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Directly, fish, as soon as taken from the water, he dies. And Christ... Then how can you support Christ that if he has done killing business himself and he instructs others not to kill?

Akṣayānanda: Does that mean you are calling Jesus Christ a hypocrite?

Prabhupāda: Hypocrite.

Akṣayānanda: Who is calling him a hypocrite, us or you?

Prabhupāda: You want to support your sinful activities by proving Christ as hypocrite. This is your business. You are such a Christian. And your love for Christ is such. (break) ...that we have to follow the instruction of the superior. Even if he acts something against the instruction, you should not follow it. You have to follow his words. You cannot imitate his action. That is real obedience. You should... If he has done something against his instruction, you should know that might have been some particular occasion he has done it, but we are not concerned with that. We are concerned with his order. That is obedience. He has not ordered me to do this thing. So my duty is what he has ordered to me. That is my only duty. What he has done in particular occasion, that is not my duty to see.

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That sūri bari means wine shop where wine is distilled and sold. That is called sūri bari. And those who are wine sellers, they are called sūri. So I see that Nityānanda is going to a wine shop. So if I say, "Oh, Nityānanda is now spoiled. He is going to wine shop." No. We should not see that. We should know Nityānanda is pure. If he is going to sūri bari, wine shop, he has some business. But because he is going to the sūri bari he is not polluted. I shall not follow him, "Because Nityānanda has gone sūri bari, therefore I shall go." Kṛṣṇa danced with young girls, other's wives always. That does not mean I shall imitate that. What Kṛṣṇa has said, we have to follow that. That's all. Kṛṣṇa never said that "You also dance like me in rāsa dance." Has He said anywhere? Then how can you do that? Whatever He does, He has got purpose. His work is all right. But I cannot imitate His work. The example is given that the sunshine is soaking urine. Can you imitate that, you drink urine? So tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). If Christ has done something, he is Lord Jesus Christ, he might have done it for some purpose, but we cannot follow that. We have to follow what he has ordered. That's all.

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Pañcadraviḍa: ...argument being that Christ has said "Thou shalt not kill." That is one of ten commandments. Ten commandments are social codes for how the people are to live. Now, the people that are Christ's disciples, they are all fishermen. His whole community is fishermen and sheep herders. They are always... He is having fisherman community. So he did not mean for them to give up their engagement. They were all living as fishermen. He told them, "Thou shalt not kill." Therefore we can only conclude that Christ meant "Thou shalt not kill other human beings" because he was coming at a time, teaching principles how to live with each other...

Prabhupāda: No, we don't allow to comment or interpret on the words of... That we cannot allow. You cannot interpret in that way, in your own logical... That is not allowed.

Pañcadraviḍa: "But we say that when Christ said, Thou shalt not kill, and you say it refers all living beings, we say that is your interpretation because Christ is coming to teach fishermen. He never told them to give up their occupation. They continued to live as fishermen. Continued to live as sheep herders. He knew that killing was going on. Therefore his statement, 'Thou shalt not kill,' must refer to human beings because he was living in the community. He was teaching by his example."

Prabhupāda: But I can say, "Why not to the animals? You can eat fish only." Then I'll write book like that. Jesus Christ allowed the fishermen to fish, so then you can fish. Why you are killing cows? That will be my argument. If you are actually following Christ, all right, you can take fish, but why you are killing animals, and other animals? Why you are going that "Because Christ has allowed some fish killing, therefore everyone should be killed"? What is this nonsense? You follow strictly. All right, fish-killing.

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: These Christians, during the Christmas, they buy a turkey one month before...

Prabhupāda: But that is not the injunction of Christ. They have made it.

Dr. Patel: No, no. That cannot be injunction of a saint like that.

Prabhupāda: No. He says, "Thou shall not kill," general order.

Dr. Patel: Christ was a great bhāgavata-bhakta.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Dr. Patel: He was a bhakta.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I said in many lectures that Christianism means Vaiṣṇavism. Where is the Christian?

Dr. Patel: Vaiṣṇavism. Totally Vaiṣṇavism.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: That is another point. The thing is that Christ came to preach the message of God. So therefore, to become actually Christ conscious means God conscious.

O'Grady: God conscious, exactly. And to become God conscious means...

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa conscious.

O'Grady: To become self conscious.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

O'Grady: To be conscious of who you are yourself.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. God consciousness includes self consciousness. But self consciousness is not God consciousness. God consciousness includes self consciousness, but self consciousness is not God consciousness.

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

O'Grady: Just like Christ took this knowledge from the Holy Ghost.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And anyone. Yes. Similarly, bona fide spiritual master means who is in the line of successive spiritual master. The original spiritual master is God. So then one who has heard from God and he has explained the same message to his disciple, then the disciple is bona fide spiritual master—if he does not change. That is our process. We take lessons. We hear from Kṛṣṇa who is the perfect, God. And that is explained in the Bhagavad-gita. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2).

Morning Walk -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Well, nobody's activities can be greater than God's activities.

Yogeśvara: There was that lady who came to see you yesterday who asked that "Lord Jesus performed so many miracles. So what miracles did Kṛṣṇa perform?" So your reply was so many miracles, killing Putana and so on. But that was five thousand years ago. Kṛṣṇa's not here today. And people will ask, "Well we cannot see these miracles. So how can we accept Kṛṣṇa?"

Bhagavān: Well they can't see Jesus's miracles either.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) They can see the miracles of Jesus Christ?

Yogeśvara: They will accept anyone.

Prabhupāda: All such questions. No sober questions.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Richard Webster: And Christians, how do you present this? Suppose if someone was a Christian.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Christian, if you take... Just like Lord Jesus Christ is a bona fide teacher, and he has given his teaching, his commandments. If you follow those commandments, then you are bona fide student. But if you don't follow then you are not bona fide.

Richard Webster: And if you try to follow but fail or if you...

Prabhupāda: No, you must follow. You cannot fail. Just like Lord Christ says, "Thou shall not kill." You must follow that. If you do not follow, then you are not Christian. It is not the question of that you could not follow or you are weak to follow. You must follow.

Room Conversation with Catholic Cardinal and Secretary to the Pope -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Monsignor Verrozano: What do you think about this...

Prabhupāda: No. Man is supposed to be elevated position, how to love God. Animals cannot make (break) ...any distinction between a human being and animal. That is really the symptom of God, that sarva-yoniṣu... Just like if I am obedient son of my father, how can I neglect one son who is very stupid? Rather, if I say to my father, "Father, this son is stupid. He does not bring any service. So please allow me to cut his head," the father will never agree. The father, either a stupid son or very intelligent son, he is kind to everyone, because they are sons. So similarly, if a man is real lover of God, he cannot cut throat of the animals. I think, therefore, Jesus Christ said, "Thou shalt not kill." That is not... If actually one is lover of God, how he can give trouble, pains, to others? That is not possible.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Now the so-called, the priestly society, priestly society, they are amending the Biblical injunction according to their whims. Just like in the Bible, the injunction is, "Thou shalt not kill." But the priestly class and all classes, they are simply killing. So how they can guide? They are keeping regular slaughterhouse for killing. So how they can guide? I have asked so many Christian gentlemen, including priests that "Your injunction is that 'Thou shalt not kill.' That is Lord Jesus Christ's order. Why you are violating this?" They give me vague answers. Directly it is said, "Thou shalt not kill." And the whole world is simply killing poor animals, and keeping up-to-date slaughterhouse.

Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Buddha is śaktyāveśa-avatāra. We accept Lord Jesus Christ also, śaktyāveśa-avatāra; Mohammed, śaktyāveśa-avatāra. Śaktyāveśa-avatāra means a living entity especially empowered and he preaches the philosophy on behalf... That is called śaktyāveśa-avatāra. There are different types of avatāras. Guṇāvatāra, manvantarāvatāra, yugāvatāra, līlāvatāra, śaktyāveśāvatāra, like that. They are described in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. About avatāras. You find out Teachings of Lord Caitanya, avatāras. Innumerable avatāras. Come here. Find out this chapter. Avatāra saṅkhyeyaḥ. It is compared, just like in the river, the waves are flowing. You cannot count, or in the... What is that? Avatāra. Read, read that chapter.

Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Now later on, they began to eat meat by so-called animal sacrifice. In that period Lord Buddha appeared. About him it is, description is there, sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. The Lord became compassionate on the animals, as they were being killed unnecessarily. So Buddha, Lord Buddha, his only mission was to stop the sinful activities of animal... Ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ. He was teaching that. But these rascals, they would show the evidence... Just like Christians says that "Lord Jesus Christ ate fish" or something like that. Because Lord Jesus Christ ate fish, therefore they should maintain slaughterhouse. This is their reasoning. The other day somebody questioned me that... I said that killing of animals is sinful activity. So somebody questioned that "Lord Jesus Christ ate fish," somewhere. So I said that He is powerful. He can eat the whole world. But you cannot imitate. You have to follow his instructions, what he says. He said, 'Thou shall not kill.' So you should follow his instruction, not the action." He is powerful.

Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Similarly, we cannot imitate the powerful, we have to simply follow the instruction of the powerful. That is... But people, on slight imitation... Is that very good reason? Suppose Christ sometimes ate fish, but that is sufficient reason to maintain big, big slaughterhouse? Because Christ said... And he teached in the desert. Suppose there was no food and he had to eat some fish. So that is his business. He could do it. He is powerful. But does it mean on that strength throughout the whole world the Christians will maintain big, big, up-to-date machinery for slaughterhouse? So it is sinful. So Buddha wanted to stop this nonsense, who were eating and killing animals on the strength of Vedas. They did not know what is the meaning, but they would say in the Vedas it is stated, paśavo vadhyaḥ sṛṣṭaḥ: "The animals are created for being killed." And what purpose it is killed? They, without knowing... Actually, they wanted to satisfy their tongue by eating the flesh, but they would give Vedic evidences. So to stop this nonsense business Buddha said that "I don't care for your Vedas." Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. Śruti-jātam means Vedic injunction.

Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prof. Regamay: But I am struck that, for instance, for us in the West the idea of personal God is strongly rooted in our consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Lord Jesus Christ, he was Vaiṣṇava. He directly gave you the idea of personal God. The personal God is the origin. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). The... Just like, the same example: the sun god, the sun planet and sunshine, they are one. They are not different. But still, this is impersonal, that is localized, and within the sun globe, there is the sun god. So sun god is the origin of this light. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is the origin of everything. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvam (BG 10.8). That's the fact. But people with poor fund of knowledge they cannot understand it. Therefore stop... (break) ...light, that's all. So much. Just like Lord Buddha. He did not explain anything about God. He said, "Just obey me and stop this animal killing." Therefore this much sufficient for him, that's all. The lower class students, one plus two equal to three, two plus two..., that much mathematics, not higher mathematics. Higher mathematics is not possible to understand.

Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: That's it. But there is higher mathematics. Not one plus two or two plus three, no. There is still higher mathematics. So that is not meant for them. That will be explained, explained in the Bhagavad..., ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). Those who are expert, or sufficient, insufficient knowledge, they cannot understand the Supreme Absolute. That is also confirmed, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: (BG 7.19) "After many, many births, when one is actually in full knowledge, he can understand Kṛṣṇa and surrenders unto Him." Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). So Vedas and scriptures are there, differently, according to different conditions. Now, what Jesus Christ was teaching the people? You can understand. The first injunction is "Thou shalt not kill." So what class of men they were, just you can understand. Otherwise, why he is first of all telling "Thou shalt not kill"? The Mohammed also said, "From this day, there is no sex with your mother." So just see what class of men. So according to class of men, there should be teaching. Similarly, Buddha also, Lord Buddha said, "No, no, there is no God. Just try to understand me. You obey Me." "Yes, sir." It has to be done like that.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: (translates) There's a story. Someone asked Lord Jesus to describe how we should love all people. Describe... Just like a man who has one hundred sheep and there is one of them who has gone astray, he is lost, so the man leaves aside all of his other hundred sheep to go looking for that one sheep. So in the same way, he says, we must take care of the people who are suffering. The minority, those who are suffering, they must receive food, they must be given help and fed.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But why you should kill animal?

Young Swiss Man (3): At the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā...

Prabhupāda: And Christ says, "Thou shall not kill." Why you are killing? From the very beginning disobedience. How you can become Christian?

Young Swiss Man (3): Isn't it at the beginning Arjuna hesitates to kill his family and doesn't want to go to fight, and what he is taught, through Bhagavad-gītā in some way is that he should not restrain and that...

Prabhupāda: But first of all you take your Bible. You are ordered not to kill. Why you are killing? Then go to Bhagavad-gītā. When there is aggression you have the right to kill but not unnecessarily you can kill. Suppose a tiger attacks you; you can kill. But you cannot go in the forest and kill the tiger. That is sinful.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Then why Christ recommend, "Thou shall not kill. Thou shall not covet. Thou shall not do this. Thou shall not..."? They are all false thing? Now let us talk of knowledge. We have talked so many outside knowledge. What is the real knowledge? The real knowledge is that everything is the property of God. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). No land belongs either to the Americans or to the Swiss people or to the Indian people or to German people. No. Everything belongs to God. And all living entities are the sons of God. So everything produced out of God's land, either on the land or in the sky or anywhere, it is God's property, and all the sons, they have the right to share. So there is no scarcity in the God's kingdom. Simply due to our mismanagement we have created so much trouble. If we accept God as the center and all living entities sons of God, then we can actually live very peacefully in God consciousness. Therefore this is the recommendation, how we can live very peacefully, all of us, both men and animal and everyone. That is said here.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: He says that for Christians, this feeling of being with God comes from praying to Lord Jesus Christ. He's asking if Kṛṣṇa has that same position for us.

Prabhupāda: Well, Kṛṣṇa is God, and Christ is son of God. We don't find any difference between the son and the father.

Swiss Man (1): (French)

Yogeśvara: Kṛṣṇa, he thinks, is an avatāra of Viṣṇu.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Yogeśvara: Kṛṣṇa, he says, is an avatāra of Viṣṇu?

Prabhupāda: Well, Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa is the same thing. It is external. Kṛṣṇa... Somebody says Kṛṣṇa is avatāra of Viṣṇu, and we say that Viṣṇu is expansion of Kṛṣṇa. Now, this example I have already given. Just like one candle. The another, ignite another candle, ignite another candle... Now, all these candles, so far light-giving power the same. But you can call, "This is first candle. This is second candle." And if you say the second candle is first candle, so there is no trouble because the candle power is the same.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: He says, do we see Kṛṣṇa as being a savior in the way that Christians see Christ as being the savior?

Prabhupāda: What do you mean by "savior"?

Yogeśvara: (translates)

Frenchman: (French)

Yogeśvara: He say the savior is one who rekindles the spiritual spark that reunites the living being with God. So the savior is in between God and the living being.

Prabhupāda: Savior means who saves you from this material existence. He is called savior. Because the living entity, being entangled in this material existence, he is suffering, so savior means one who saves from this material entanglement and gets him back to God, back to Godhead.

Swiss Man (1): (French)

Yogeśvara: When they think of the savior, they're talking about the guru, the spiritual master. He's asking, is Kṛṣṇa our guru? Kṛṣṇa, we consider Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: Guru means the representative of God. Just like Christ is son of God, guru is also son of God. So there is no much difference because they will say the same thing, that "You are suffering in this material world on account of material entanglement. So you give up this business. Come back to home, back to Godhead." So this is the real message. This message is given by God, by His son, by His servant. The message is the same. If one does not give this message he is neither guru, nor son, nothing of the sort.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: What interests them is the underlying nature of our spiritual practice as opposed to theirs. For example, for them spiritual life is the prayer, salvation in Lord Jesus Christ. And they're not quite sure... They're interested in knowing what is our relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Is it the same or...

Prabhupāda: We are also thinking of Kṛṣṇa always. Eh? Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14). We are chanting, "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa..." We are always remembering Kṛṣṇa. So the real process is... Either you think of Kṛṣṇa or son of Kṛṣṇa, it doesn't matter, but you should always think of Him. That is the requisition. That is recommended. That is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru, Ninth Chapter.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: That's all. Now either you engage your mind in Kṛṣṇa or Jesus does not matter. It is same thing. But this is the process. "Engage your mind in Me." Then?

Yogeśvara: (translates)

Prabhupāda: So we are teaching this, that engage your mind to God or the son of god; it doesn't matter. But your mind should be godly engaged. That's all. That is meditation. That is real meditation: "Always think of Me." And in another place, in Sixth Chapter, you see,

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

mad-gatenāntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

(BG 6.47)

"The first-class yogi is he who is always thinking of Me." So it doesn't matter you are Christian, I am Hindu. The real point is that think of God or God's representative always. That is the point.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: This is karma. If you have bad karma, then you must suffer by the laws of nature. You may be a rich man's son or king's son.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Christ, he actually also said that. There's one verse in the Bible. Christ said, "The poor you will always have with you, but I will not be with you always." He said that also. They misunderstand.

Prabhupāda: Very good idea. Therefore I said Jesus Christ is son of God, so what he says and what Kṛṣṇa says, there is no difference. This has become a hackneyed slogan, "poor feeding." To do to the humanity—and cut the throat of the animal. What is this philosophy, nonsense philosophy? They have no conception of God. If he has got conception of God, then everyone—paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Oh, why for the benefit of the human being, other animals' throat should be cut? Even they have no common sense. National. National means one who is born in that land. That is national.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1974, Geneva:

Satsvarūpa: You said: "Well, if you're sinful, there's no question of going on to a higher topic."

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is specially mentioned in the Bhāgavata: vinā paśughnāt.

nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād

bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt

ka uttamaśloka-guṇānuvādāt

pumān virajyeta vinā paśughnāt

(SB 10.1.4)

Everyone can understand the truth except the rascals who are meat-eaters. Vinā paśughnāt. Paśughnāt. Paśu means animals, and ghna means killer. Christ therefore first says, "You shall not kill." These rascals are killers from the very beginning, and they're continuing. Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). Those who are paśughna, they cannot understand. They're thinking, "We are doing very good work, philanthropic work, opening hospitals and public roads, and every ten years, we are fighting and killing all the men population." They're happy. They are taking credit for these big, big buildings, but this is duṣkṛtina because simply these buildings are meant for committing sinful activities. That's all. "Wine, women, meat-eating, gambling. We are civilized." (break) ...this Geneva very many churches.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1974, Geneva:

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: The Khān Vaiṣṇavas.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So it requires the devotee who can explain from any godly literature about God. How rascal they are! "Jesus Christ ate fish. Therefore we shall maintain big, big slaughterhouse." Just see the argument. Then, in the Bengali, mosa makta kanan (?). There was a mosquito, and one is asking, "Bring a cannon." "Bring a cannon." Mosa makta kanan. Jesus Christ ate somewhere. There was no food available to eat, might have. Accepting he ate, but that, does it mean that you have to maintain slaughterhouse? Just see. And besides that, he might have done anything. He's powerful. He can eat. Therefore the other day I said, "He can eat the whole world." But you cannot imitate. You have to follow his instruction. That is Christianity.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: That is not God. God is person. That means you do not know God.

Devotee: They say Jesus Christ is God too.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Jesus Christ is God. That's right. But Jesus Christ said, "I'm son of God."

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Yes. He said, "I'm at the right hand of the Father."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: So he's different from the Father.

Prabhupāda: Even not different. But he says that he's son of God. We accept it. Why there are so many religions? If religion means acceptance of God, then here is God. Then make one religion. Why so many different religions?

Guru-gaurāṅga: In America there are two new sects, religious sects, that appear every month.

Prabhupāda: Every month. Different sect.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, another thing that's stated in the Bible, in the Christians' philosophy, they say that God created man out of His own image. It's stated in the Bible. So therefore man has a form, why not God? Because it's stated there in the Bible.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I think Bible is on the personal understanding of God. Christ says that he is son of God. Unless one is person, how he can beget a son?

Devotee: They talk about the trilogy—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. It is compared like the Father...

Prabhupāda: Bhagavān, Paramātmā, and Brahman, yes. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11), it is the same idea. Brahman, Holy Ghost, is impersonal, but Son is person and God is also person. I do not know much about, but I have heard from Christians that there is assembly of God, and Lord Christ has got a seat by the side of God. Is not that explained?

Devotee: It's on His right hand.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee: On his right side he's supposed to be seated.

Prabhupāda: Yes. These are all personal ideas.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Jyotirmayī: God has no name in Christianity, but the son of God has a name. And before they use for a long time, and everywhere they were saying the name of Jesus Christ.

Prabhupāda: But they say that in Christianity there is a name of God. They say. No?

Jyotirmayī: (French)

Prabhupāda: But you said that His name be glorified.

Devotee: They say "Hallowed be Thy name."

Priest: But the name is not said.

Devotee: Yes.

Priest: Never said.

Devotee: Jesus said that "All I have taught you is not the total sum of the knowledge of God," he says, "but there is more to be told."

Prabhupāda: That's all right. So if you have no name, then why don't you take this name, "Kṛṣṇa"?

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). Harer nāma means God's name.

Priest: You see, for instance, in Christianity for a long time there was a bhakti, and this bhakti was devoted to the name of Jesus. So for a very long time you had that Jesus bhakti. And in your country, in America today, like you have got the Hare Kṛṣṇa, you have got also the Jesus devotees. Now, this is also present in many places. And the name does not matter. There is no name who has got the... Because then you find again what...

Prabhupāda: No. If Jesus is the name of God, then you can chant. If Jesus is the name of God. But Jesus, Lord Jesus Christ, says that he is son of God. Of course, there is no difference between son and the father. That is another thing. But still, if I want the father, how by calling the name of son I can get the father? That is also another thing.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: That everyone's father and son is the same. If father says something and the son says... Just like in a big family, if the son orders something, it is as good as the father's order. That is our experience. But still, if you want to call the father, you will not get the father's response by calling the name of the son.

Priest: Jesus told us, "If you see me, you see the Father, because the Father cannot be seen." It was a common name. Yoshua was a common Jewish name.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Now, one thing is that if we are interested in chanting the name of God, if it is available, then why should I chant the name of the son?

Priest: No, it is not that question. The question is...

Devotee: Excuse me for interrupting, but one thing was that you suggested that the name of Kṛṣṇa is a very common name...

Priest: Yeah.

Devotee: ...in the sense that many people may be called Kṛṣṇa. But the Supreme God is also called Kṛṣṇa. So if you chant His name, you derive the benefit even if you're not thinking of Him as the Supreme.

Priest: Yeah, but for the Christian the same. Jesus is a very common name.

Devotee: That's all right. We're saying chant. Our spiritual master is teaching "You chant the name of God." That's the important thing.

Prabhupāda: If you think that Jesus Christ's name is also, you can chant, we have no objection. We say that you chant the holy name of God, whatever you have got. That's all right.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: If you think that Jesus Christ's name is also, you can chant, we have no objection. We say that you chant the holy name of God, whatever you have got. That's all right.

Priest: And for a Muslim you mean to chant Allah.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Priest: Name Kṛṣṇa, Allah, Jesus, (indistinct), what is the...

Prabhupāda: Allah is not name. That is... It is not the name. It is just like the idea of God.

Priest: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Allah means God, īśvara.

Priest: Allah means also (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: But that is not the name. That is... Just like the President and Mr. Nixon. The President may be another person. Not only Nixon, but another person also may be. So President is the general understanding of the post. But still, one who occupies the post, he has got a name.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Anyway, if one chants Allah or Jesus Christ, we have no objection. We don't say that you stop it. We say that you chant the holy name of God. If that name is of God, you chant.

Yogeśvara: Yesterday, Srila Prabhupāda, you gave the story, I think you said it was from the Padma Purāṇa, about a Muslim who was attacked by a wild boar.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yogeśvara: He was attacked by a wild boar, and the boars for the Muslims are untouchable. So he was saying haram, haram, which means untouchable. And he was killed by that boar, but it was taken by higher authority that he was chanting "ha rāma," which means "where is Lord Rāma," so he derived liberation. Even unconsciously he was chanting and derived liberation.

Prabhupāda: Although he did not mean Rāma, he condemned the boar as haram, condemned. But the...

Priest: Same story is said in the bhakti tradition of Maharastra of the hunter.

Prabhupāda: Yes, may be the same story.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: That is still lower grade man. But so far experience that "I have not... God is beyond my experience." Another point that in the Bible, Christ, Lord Christ says that "My Lord, Thy be hallowed..." What is that?

Devotees: "Hallowed be Thy name."

Prabhupāda: So God has name.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: "Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed by Thy name."

Prabhupāda: Eh? So he admits God has His name. But it may be that he did not disclose or did not like to say, but there is already name. So it is up to the followers to know what is that name.

Yogeśvara: The Guru Maharaji followers say that God's name cannot be pronounced.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yogeśvara: They say that God's name cannot be...

Prabhupāda: No, Guru Maharaji is a rascal. Don't, don't take his name. He's not even a human being. (laughter) But we cannot compare Christ with Guru Maharaji.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: He has no other qualification, this Guru Maharaja. People have become so lower in intelligence that they are dealing with him. You see? They are not even equal to our shoes. You should not utter his name. But Lord Jesus Christ's position is different. We cannot compare with this rascal. He's recognized God's man, Jesus Christ. And what is this rascal?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: One of the Ten Commandments, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is that one should not take the name of God in vain. And they argue that when we chant the holy name, they say, "You are chanting, chanting, chanting all the time, but this is taking the name in vain."

Prabhupāda: Why vain? Don't you find difference between you and me? Why it is vain? Don't you find what is the difference between you and me? So I... Do you think that I am a foolish man, that I am chanting, "Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa" without any profit? So you can think because you are a rascal, but I know my business.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not different from His mind. Why do you say like that? This is material conception, the soul is different from body, the mind is different from soul. But Kṛṣṇa has no such difference. Therefore He's called absolute. Advaya-jñāna. His mind and Kṛṣṇa are the same. Kṛṣṇa and His name is the same. Kṛṣṇa and His words are the same. This is Kṛṣṇa understanding. Jesus Christ simply said that "Hallowed be Thy name." That means there is name. Now the question is why he did not say or utter the name? Now, there is already name. Why should he utter?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Right.

Prabhupāda: There is already name, Kṛṣṇa. So why should he utter?

Paramahaṁsa: Is that why Christ didn't utter the name of Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: No, he said, "Hallowed be Thy name. Hallowed be Thy name." So there is name already. That means he gave you chance to find out the name. And as he came to India, so you come to India and you'll get the name.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Nitāi: Were you asking where that was from?

Prabhupāda: No, you said. Somebody said it is, Christ said...

Nitāi: That's in what they call the Lord's Prayer, which was given by Christ himself. All the Catholics say that daily.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Nitāi: The Catholics repeat that prayer daily.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Nitāi: The Lord's Prayer.

Prabhupāda: What is that prayer?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: One devotee, he asked to Christ, "How should I pray?"

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: He said, "Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil, for Thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory for ever and ever."

Prabhupāda: Very nice prayer. Very nice prayer.

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: Just like we're saying that all the ācāryas have accepted Kṛṣṇa, he says so also in the Christian religion, all the priests and all the Christians have said that Christ is the ultimate, as it is said in the Evangel. (French)

Prabhupāda: Yes, we have several times explained that Christ says that he is the son of God. So we don't deny it.

Karandhara: The point he's making, Prabhupāda, is that...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Karandhara: What he's saying is that outwardly, they all profess allegiance to Jesus, but they, it's seen that they disagree with one another on many points. They have diversified opinions about what Jesus meant about this and what does life signify.

Yogeśvara: And therefore, for him, he doesn't even consider that question, whether Christ is the son of God, whether he's not the son of God. For him, it's a secondary problem.

Prabhupāda: Now, now, what is his problem. That he did never disclose.

Room Conversation with Mr. Tran-van-Kha, and President & Members of the Society of Buddhists in France -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: He was Hindu in the beginning. Come on. He was Prince, then He become renounced and He was known as Lord Buddha. So Lord Buddha also started His system for stopping animal killing. Lord Jesus also said, "Thou shall not kill." Unfortunately the animal killing is not stopped. We are therefore teaching our followers: no meat-eating, so that if people stop meat-eating, automatically animal killing will be stopped. According to Vedic system, there are four pillars of sinful life, just like this table is on the four pillars. So one pillar is illicit sex, another meat-eating, another intoxication, and another gambling. So at least the brāhmaṇas, the priestly heads of religion, the king and the public leader, they should stop these four sinful activities. The leaders of the society they must be sinless. Then the human society will make nice progress.

Room Conversation with Mr. Tran-van-Kha, and President & Members of the Society of Buddhists in France -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Lady (2): I want to ask you. What does it (indistinct) when you, when there's talk of this religion of Kṛṣṇa. Is it before Christ or more?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Yogeśvara: This, the question of religion, did it come before Christ or before Buddha?

Prabhupāda: Yes, 5,000 years ago.

Lady (2): Yes, before.

Prabhupāda: 5,000 years.

Pṛthu Putra: (translates into French)

Lady (2): 5,000 years, eh?

Prabhupāda: This is now. Before that, this was spoken some millions of years ago to the Sun-god.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Christians, they cannot say that God is impersonal. (French) Because, because Christ is son of God. So the son is person. How the Father can be imperson? And in the Bible it is said, "There was word in the beginning." That is God's word. So if one has a word, then He's a person. Word comes from the tongue and mouth. As soon as there is word, background is tongue and mouth. And then... The Christians pray in the church, "Oh, God, give us our daily bread." So God has got ear so that He will hear and supply. But His personality, His word, His hearing, they're all transcendental, nonmaterial.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: What is that? (French)

Yogeśvara: For example, in that chapter, it also says that the word of God became flesh and that flesh was the son of God, Lord Jesus Christ.

Prabhupāda: But that means Jesus Christ is transcendental, not of this material world. (French)

Yogeśvara: They say... They accept... They think that Lord Jesus, however, was a human being. He was spiritual, but also he was part of this material world.

Prabhupāda: No, material world is part of Jesus Christ, but Jesus Christ is not part of material world. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says that they had a human body, he had a material body.

Prabhupāda: That human body appears like that, but he had no this material flesh and blood. A material body, how there can be resurrection?

Yogeśvara: If it was material body, how is it possible for him to be resurrected? (French)

Prabhupāda: Is that all right?

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: These, these rascals, they thought that "Jesus had a material body. Let us kill him." So Jesus Christ bewildered them more, to remain rascal, that they will continue to think that Jesus had a material body.

Jyotirmayī: Bewildered them?

Yogeśvara: Yes, he bewildered them more by saying: "All right, go on thinking like that."

Prabhupāda: That is their punishment. They remain always in darkness that Jesus had a material body. (French)

Jyotirmayī: So he's saying that he respects your explanation, but that the Christians, they have another explanation, and that if we...

Prabhupāda: But we must come to the reason before giving explanation. You cannot explain...

Yogeśvara: What is the reason for his incarnation?

Prabhupāda: You cannot explain whimsically. You cannot explain whimsically. If Jesus Christ is son of God, he has... That means he has got spiritual body.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Now, then, then, another thing is: you accept Jesus Christ the only son of God, is it not? So when you pray in the church, you address God, "Oh Father." Then why "only son"?

French Woman: We say that the son is...

Prabhupāda: Then everyone is son.

French Woman: Yes, we say that this is the same God, yes.

Prabhupāda: If I address God, "My father," then I am his son. So why there should be "only son"? (French)

French Woman: Yes, we say that we are adopted sons. (laughter) (French)

Jyotirmayī: They say that they are sons, that all living beings are sons, but by adoption.

Yogeśvara: Adopted son. Yes.

Prabhupāda: So therefore these sons' body and Jesus's body cannot be equal. So adopted son has got material body, not the real son.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: Their idea is that: Yes, of course, Lord Jesus, being the son of God, his body is spiritual, but because he wanted to take part in the life of the human beings on earth, he actually accepted a material body just to live among men.

Prabhupāda: Why he should accept?

French Woman: But we have a vesper that says that he was died, that he was suffering, and things which show that...

Prabhupāda: But his death... You think that he was died, but he resurrected.

French Woman: But the gospel says that he had died.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

French Woman: You cannot... We accept the totality of the word, as you accept your word.

Prabhupāda: No. No, no. "Died" means that is similar death. Janma karma me divyam (BG 4.9). Just like Christ take birth from the womb of Mary. It appears like that, but actually that is not.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

French Woman: No, it is very important that the death of Christ is a real death. For us, it is the center of our faith.

Yogeśvara: They say that the central point of their philosophy is that Lord Jesus actually died. (French)

Prabhupāda: No, according to Vedic conception, even ordinary living being, he does not die. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). You understand Sanskrit?

French Woman: No, I don't understand it by hearing it. You have to read it.

Prabhupāda: Na hanyate, does not die, hanyamāne śarīre, apparently, the body being dead, the soul is never dead. (French)

Yogeśvara: So... Shall I explain that one? What the good Pastor—are they called Pastor?—describes is that in order for there to be a dialogue, we have to respect each others' positions, not that we will try to convert the other. He says just as we respect you have an absolute faith in the Vedic philosophy, so also there must be respect that the Christian interpretation of the life of Lord Jesus and his death...

Prabhupāda: Oh, I think I have better respect than him to Jesus Christ. I say he does not die. He says he dies. (French) So far respect is concerned, I have more respect than them. They want to see Jesus Christ dead. I don't want to see him dead.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

French Woman: No. Death and resurrection after, Jesus.

Yogeśvara: There's a resurrection.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yogeśvara: Excuse me. Perhaps at this time we can introduce Madame, Madame Devi?

Jyotirmayī: So we'd like to introduce Mrs. Devi, who came here also to meet you. She's a very wonderful lady. She's writing a dictionary of mysticism, and she did the whole first part on Western religions, and now she wants to do the following part on the Eastern religions. So she would like very much to talk in this book about ourselves, about the movement of Hare Kṛṣṇa which is a big part of the Oriental religions.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Recently, there was a historical excavation that Jesus Christ did not die, and he, after crucification, he was taken to Kashmir.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

French Woman: But we are not under historical literally. We try to speak of mystical experience. This is exactly the subject of, that we did. We cannot discuss history because everybody has his own documentation.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So I was very much pleased because I was very sorry that Jesus Christ was crucified. But when I heard this historical discovery, I was very satisfied. But one thing is that... Here, at least, in London, I have seen. There are so many churches vacant. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says he was at your conference, last night and he was there when you described how human life is meant for knowing God. So now he wishes to ask you a question: What is our process for coming to know God?

Prabhupāda: That is very simple. It is not at all difficult. Just like in your body, you are, the soul, important active principle... (to Jyotirmayī:) Explain. (French) Similarly, this huge, gigantic, cosmic manifestation must have some active principle. That is God. So where is the difficulty to understand God? (French)

Yogeśvara: For example, in our prayers, in our studies, what is our...

Prabhupāda: Now first of all, let us understand what is God. Then prayer. If you do not understand God, then what you'll prayer? If we understand that there is the active principle, then the prayer we have already described, janmādy asya yataḥ anvayāt itarataś cārtheṣu abhijñaḥ: (SB 1.1.1) "I pray to the Supreme Personality of Godhead Vāsudeva who is the origin of all creation." This is the active principle.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

American Man: If they wish to call it Jesus Christ, they can call it...

Prabhupāda: No, we, we, we also say that. We are all life, and God is the supreme life. That's all.

American Man: God, for me, is a word. It's a word which no one can understand, which no one can say what is God.

Prabhupāda: Simply you understand.

American Man: I understand the light.

Prabhupāda: No, no, you understand. You say, "God is word." That means you understand God.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: That is... When we pray, offer pray, it is stated that that is his, one of the qualifications. Sada... Nindasi. Nindasi yajña-vidher. The animal sacrifice is recommended... Some of the sacrifices or all of them... So that animal sacrifice was not meant for eating. Just to give them new, rejuvenated life by the Vedic mantras, to test that whether Vedic mantras are being chanted properly. And because at the Kali-yuga there is no such expert brāhmaṇa, all sacrifices are forbidden. So later on, as they deteriorated, they began to offer sacrifices, and if anyone wants to stop it, they will say, "Oh, it is recommended in the Vedas." Just like these rascals, Christian: "Oh, Christ ate fish. Therefore we must maintain slaughterhouse." Just see how rascal they are. Supposing Christ ate somewhere fish. Therefore they would maintain regularly slaughterhouse of cows. This is their brain.

Room Conversation with German Women Philosophers -- June 17, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: From the books. (German) (break)

Pṛthu: So she feels... It seems that she feels a little bit attacked by this hellish worlds. So now she says that Jesus has come to save men and not to, to destroy them. So he says Jesus even came to the robbers and with a purpose to save them.

Prabhupāda: Well, but provided the follower abides by the order of Jesus. Jesus can save them if the man follows the Jesus order. (German) (break)

Pṛthu: ...say?

Prabhupāda: Jesus has given some instruction or not? (German)

Pṛthu: So he says that Jesus has given some directions and this is that we should love our brother in the same way as we love ourselves and that we should not do any harm to anyone.

Prabhupāda: But Jesus has said also those who are sinful, they'll go to hell? Is it not? Satsvarūpa?

Satsvarūpa: I can't think of any quote, but of course, that's the teachings of God the father.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with German Women Philosophers -- June 17, 1974, Germany:

Pṛthu: Yes, yes, she says that there is something like eternal condemn in the Christian teachings, like Jesus said.

Prabhupāda: Eternally hellish life.

Pṛthu: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So then why she says that everyone will go, peace? (German) (break)

Pṛthu: She makes no... She said that if she could listen to Jesus, what he said, formerly, then she would know, but she says actually one cannot believe it so much because can anyone believe that he has made the dead Lazarus... This was a person who already died, and Jesus came and gave him life back. So she says nobody can believe that, that Jesus has made this dead Lazarus...

Prabhupāda: I don't follow. What is that?

Satsvarūpa: She, from what he says, she does not actually believe in Jesus.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Satsvarūpa: This lady. She says that who can be sure of what Jesus actually did because he was...

Prabhupāda: Then why, why she quotes Jesus? If she does not believe in Jesus, why she's giving evidence from Jesus? (German) (break)

Pṛthu: She says like if she makes a comparison like if today there is a car crash, then all the people will say something different and the information will differ from the original car crash. So she says, in the same way, what Jesus did and said is now twisted around so nobody can actually give...

Prabhupāda: That means everyone has rejected Jesus.

Room Conversation with German Women Philosophers -- June 17, 1974, Germany:

Pṛthu: ...that what Jesus said, this is all right, but what is now made of it, this one shouldn't take wordly.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Pṛthu: She says what Jesus said is all right, but what is now existing from that, one should not take wordly.

Haṁsadūta: Literally.

Prabhupāda: Hm? I do not follow.

Haṁsadūta: That which has been written down about his activities or his speaking cannot be accepted literally because who knows.

Prabhupāda: Then why do you quote? (German) (break)

Pṛthu: So she makes a difference what is true and what is not true.

Prabhupāda: But if you, if you cannot follow Bible literally, then where is the truth? (German) (break) ...new truth.

Morning Walk -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: At present Christian religion is made easy. Christian religion made easy. What is that? Now, first of all Christ has taken out contract that "You go on committing all sinful life. I am guaranteeing you will be saved." Is it not?

Haṁsadūta: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Or...? What is that?

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So poor Christ has taken all concern. He will be crucified, and they will enjoy life. This is very easy religion. "I have nothing to do, and besides that, if Christ says something to do, that also we can neglect because he has taken guarantee. So although Christ says, 'Thou shalt not kill,' I can neglect that." And then, if still he is captured, he will say, "Bible is very old."

Haṁsadūta: How can we accept it?

Prabhupāda: (laughing) How they have made easy life, that see. They are... There is a story that a boy went for examination. So when he came back, his father asked, "My dear boy, how you have written your question paper?" "Yes, very nice." "How?" "No, those questions which were very difficult, I could not answer. And the easier questions, what is to write? I know everything. (laughter)

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Eternity means, we say, no beginning no end. That is eternity.

Professor Durckheim: Isn't there also this other one, when, for instance, Christ says, "I am before Abraham was," this "I am." There is one kind of eternity which has nothing to do with past and future at all, which is beyond past and future.

Prabhupāda: Past and future is concerned with this body.

Professor Durckheim: Is concerned with this body. It is concerned, exactly, with this body and with this ego, with regard to which there is a before and an after, up and down. And if you take away this ego, what's there, what's left?

Prabhupāda: That is pure ego. Now I am born Indian, say, seventy-five years ago, or seventy-eight years ago, and I have got this Indian body, I have got this false ego that "I am Indian; I am this body." This is misconception.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: It is one of the great phrases of the Gospel of St. John which the church forgot, that Christ always says, "I am the son of God, and you are my brother. You are sons of God just as I am."

Prabhupāda: Yes. But they do not agree now. Just see. Everyone is son. Now we say that... The Christians, so-called Christians, are so ignorant, as soon as you say, "Everyone is son," they rebel, "No. Christ is the only son." And you say that Christ said that "I am the son, and you are also sons." This is the fact. Kṛṣṇa says that "All living entities are My sons." That is the fact. He is the supreme father. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ. Read that śloka.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Therefore Vedic instruction is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In order to get first-class experience of the perfection of life, you must approach guru. That is the Vedic injunction. Samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham. Now, who is guru? Whom shall I approach? So the next line explains that approach such guru, śrotriyam, who has heard from his guru perfectly, that guru. Who had no chance of hearing from perfect guru, he is not guru. This is called guru-paramparā, disciplic succession. I hear from a perfect person, and I distribute the knowledge the same way, without any change. So Kṛṣṇa gives us knowledge in the Bhagavad-gītā. We are distributing the same knowledge. It is not by our... (aside:) Water is not required. Water I don't want. There is water. So I am always inexperienced because my power of understanding is very little. Therefore I must get experience from a person who is perfect. Then my experience is perfect. Just like a child does not know what is this. he asks his father, "What is this, father?" Father says, "My dear child, it is microphone." The child knows it, "microphone?" That knowledge is perfect, although his capacity is imperfect. A child is imperfect, but because he gets the knowledge from the perfect father who knows what it is, when he speaks "a microphone," he speaks rightly. This is perfect process of knowledge: You approach the perfect person and get knowledge, and that is your perfect experience. Personally, I may be, you may be, not perfect. But because I get the knowledge from the perfect, my knowledge is perfect. This is our process. We are getting knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, the most perfect. Or you get knowledge from Jesus Christ, that is also perfect, because source is perfect.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: The animals, they are not coming to eat your foodstuff, your fruits. They are, rather, producing milk not for drinking themselves. They are giving you, and you have no obligation? The milk produced by the cows, it is taken by the human being. They do not drink it. So they are giving milk. And after death, you are taking their skin. So every way they are serving. The stool, cowdung, we have stacked here. I have seen. There also fertilizer. In so many ways they are giving you service, and you are killing the poor animal. What is the human civilization? Therefore Lord Buddha wanted to stop animal killing first. When there was too much animal killing, the incarnation of Lord Buddha was there to stop animal killing. In Buddhism there is no animal killing. Although they are now killing animals, but originally Buddha religion means non-violence. Also Lord Christ also said, "Thou shalt not kill." And Kṛṣṇa says, ahiṁsā. So in no religion unnecessary killing of animals is allowed. Even in Mohammedans, they are also... Kurvāni. Kurvāni means they can kill animals once in a year in the Mosque. So everywhere animal killing is restricted.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: If you don't like to chant Kṛṣṇa you chant in your own way. Chant the name of God. If you know the name of God chant it. If you do not know then take it from me. (laughter) We are recommending to chant the holy name of God. If you know, you chant that name and if you don't know then take it from me. (German) (break) ...explained by Caitanya Mahāprabhu that God has many thousands of names or God has no name. No name means He has, He has got so many thousands of millions of names that you cannot say, "This is only God's name." This is one sense. But how God names are understood? The God names are understood by His action. Just like we say Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive. God is all-attractive. God is attractive for the Hindus, for the Muslim, for the Christians, for everyone. Therefore, being all-attractive, there's a Sanskrit word of all-attraction, Kṛṣṇa. This is the explanation of the attribute of God. Similarly, if you've got similar name which explains the attributes of God, that is also God's name. (German) I think Lord Jesus Christ said "God, hallowed be Thy name."

Satsvarūpa: The Lord's Prayer: "Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be They name."

Prabhupāda: So He has name. You find out what is His name and chant it. And if you do not know, then take it from us. That is all. He has name. He has name. He's not without name. (German) (break)

Vedavyāsa: He says from the Old Testament that Jesus said, "Hallowed be Thy name," so he didn't say a particular name because, he says, God has actually no name because if we...

Prabhupāda: So how He can be no name? He says, "Hallowed be Thy name." He has name. Therefore he says like that.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Well, who is not self-controlled, he'll not be convinced because he'll think that he's rebellious, "I can do anything what I like. I can eat whatever I like." Now how he will like this idea of self-control?

Professor Durckheim: But one question, you see. These virtues have been always asked for by Christian churches also, exactly the same. But then today we realize that the virtues are on one level with the vices. But there's something different. If you pass through the (indistinct) step you get somewhere, you see where we can understand, for instance, if Christ says "Let the dead bury their dead." A phrase like this appeals to a different level. So I think as long as you...

Prabhupāda: No. It is not different level. The advice is given according to the time, person. So if people follow Lord Christ and, I mean to say, instruction that is also perfect. But they do not follow.

Professor Durckheim: They do not...

Prabhupāda: They do not follow.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda;: Yes. That is the business in this age. Chant the holy name of God.

Professor Durckheim: Whatever you do, do in the name of Jesus Christ, the Bible...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. You take this in the name of Jesus Christ.

Haṁsadūta: Prabhupāda, would you like to take your prasādam now?

Prabhupāda: Not now. Later. The simplest method-chant the holy name of the Lord. That's all.

Prof. Pater Porsch: Should this chanting be loud? Or can it also be half loud, whisper or silently, mentally? Does it play any difference? Does it make any difference?

Prabhupāda: If you chant loudly then others can hear. They also take benefit.

Vedavyāsa: Should we translate?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Vedavyāsa: Should we translate?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (German) Even the birds and beasts they will hear and be benefited. (German) Therefore loud chanting is recommended. So that even the birds, beasts, trees, plants, they can hear.

Room Conversation -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Yes, in the spiritual life there is no sex life. In the spiritual world there is no sex intercourse. There is no sex life. Although there is man and woman, there is no sex intercourse. By chanting the glories of God there in the spiritual world, they get so much great pleasure that is far beyond this pleasure of sex life. If you have something best then you forget low grade pleasure. So this sex pleasure is lower grade pleasure. It is not pleasure, it is illusion, but in material world this is the greatest pleasure. Therefore everyone they are coming back to this sex pleasure, everyone. Even so-called religionists and swamis, they are coming down to the sex pleasure. Because in this material world that is the only highest pleasure. So, so long one will be attracted by the sex pleasure it is still in the material world. And when one will be on the platform to spite (spit) on sex pleasure, then his spiritual life begins. That is stated by Yāmunācārya. (Sanskrit). Yāmunācārya, a great saintly person, he was formerly big king, so he said, "Since I have become Kṛṣṇa conscious and enjoying, since that time, as soon as I remember even sex life, I spite (spit) on it and my mouth becomes turned." (laughter) This is the test. Not that you become very advanced spiritualist and at the same time advance in sex life. That is not. (Sanskrit) That is the test that as soon as you are advanced in spiritual life, all these materialistic habits will be rejected automatically. This is the test. Four things are material demands-eating, satisfaction of the tongue or belly and satisfaction of the genital, āhāra, and sleeping and to become a good defender, defense measure. These are material necessity. And the one who is spiritually advanced, these things will be reduced, almost nil. What Christ says, Jesus Christ about sex life? What does he say?

Devotee: Only in the married life.

Room Conversation -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: There is a word in Greek. He is called Kristo. Kṛṣṇa is sometimes pronounced by ordinary man as Kristo and that Kristo word means love. That is the other Greek word and from that Kristo, the word Christ has come.

Guest: (indistinct) Yes.

Prabhupāda: So there is some connection with Kṛṣṇa (indistinct). What is that?

Guest: There are so many parallels between Kṛṣṇa and Christ.

Prabhupāda: So many.

Guest: Born in a cave. Yes.

Devotee: Mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ, manaḥ sasthanindriyani prakṛti-sthani karsati (BG 15.7). "The living entities in this conditioned world are My eternal, fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life, they are struggling very hard with the six senses, which include the mind."

Prabhupāda: That is the position of the conditioned souls that they are struggling for existence. Instead of finding out how to come to the original consciousness and that is struggle. Kṛṣṇa means love. So everyone is struggling hard how to reach the platform of love. So many institutions-philanthropic, international, United Nations.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: God had no name, then Jesus Christ.

Haṁsadūta: His point was actually that God had no name, otherwise He would be a person. But I think you missed that point.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, I stressed that if God has no name, then why Christ said that "Hallowed be Thy name"?

Professor Durckheim: Well, he explained from his theologian point of view, when Moses was asking God, "Who is Thy name?" God didn't give a name but said only, "I am who I am." And then He explained if in the prayer one says, "Blessed be thy name," they use this in order to avoid a direct name. So just only say, "The name." But I don't understand the whole thing because the word God already is... What do you want more? And I believe that in the Christian religion, everybody just says God. They think the word God is the name and nothing more needed.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. That is not very good sense, that president, president of America. People say " 'President' is sufficient." Then why "Mr. Nixon"? They are all fools? No, they say, "Mr. Nixon," sometimes they say, and sometimes, "the President." Rather, they say more "Mr. Nixon" than "the President."

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: So this argument, this argument is not very sensible argument.

Professor Durckheim: No, but that is the answer they would give. I don't believe the special name of God is for me the name, the word God. We are praying to God.

Prabhupāda: No, no. No, no. Then name... When Christ says, "Hallowed by Thy name," there is name. The name is Kṛṣṇa, already there. Therefore he did not require to say again. But the name is there, Kṛṣṇa is there, Viṣṇu is there, Mādhava is there, Govinda is there. There are thousands and thousands of names. So you pick up any one of them. And chant it. Why do you say there is no name? Then we are chanting the name. Then what we are? We are all rascals and fools? If he says, "No, there is no name," Christ confirms there is name, and we are chanting the name. How you can say there is no name?

Professor Durckheim: Yes, quite. Well, I understand exactly what you mean very well.

Prabhupāda: There is name. It is confirmed. "Hallowed be Thy name." Now, we are chanting the name. What is your objection? You chant this name.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1974, Germany:

Satsvarūpa: In Arabia?

Prabhupāda: No, no. There was a boy. He was theologician. Prajāpati, Prajāpati. Do you remember? He was theologician. Our only request is that Bible confirms there is name. Now, even though they do not know the name, here is the name, Kṛṣṇa. So why people will not take this name to chant? And if by chanting the name there is practical benefit, why they should object? Why they should be so sectarian? Theologician, at least, must not be sectarian. So let the whole world chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So there is no loss. If there is any gain, why not take it? And because you are writing books, therefore I am requesting you to write this, that some of the Christians, they say there is no name, but Christ says there is name, and here is the name. They are chanting, and they are getting profit. We don't want anything. We don't want any price, that I have researched the name.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: ...in orthodox church and also very... They chant the name of Jesus. Again and again, the whole day, they say the word "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, have pity of us. Jesus, Jesus have pity of us."

Prabhupāda: But Jesus said, "God, hallowed by Thy name." Jesus never said that "You chant my name." No gentleman says like that. He said, "Hallowed be God. Hallowed by Thy name." And why they are sectarian? If there is name already, why do they not chant it? And what is the harm?

Haṁsadūta: There are so many places. At one point he says, "I have kept them in your name. Thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain." So many references to the name.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: And they do not see the natural dog is barking. Artificial, they pay ten dollars ticket and see how a man is barking like a dog. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa. You, at least, introduce in your country: "Chant Christ's name and stop animal killing." This is from Bible. This is not that I am asking. Bible says, "Thou shall not kill, and glorify the name of God."

Guest (1): Ahiṁsā. Prabhupāda: Just in the beginning Christ says, "Thou shall not kill." That is the beginning of religious life. The animal killers cannot understand what is God. It is not possible.

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Like us.

Pater Emmanuel: Yes. And continue also, "Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy upon me." Also I repeat, "Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy upon me. Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy upon me."

Prabhupāda: Very good. You know Greek language?

Pater Emmanuel: Yes, I know.

Prabhupāda: So you know the word Christo.

Pater Emmanuel: Yes, Christ.

Prabhupāda: Christo means Christ.

Pater Emmanuel: Yes, Christ, Kriza (?), Kristos, who is Christ by oil. Anointed. Christos, Christ, means anointed. It's the same word. It's the same form. Christo and Kristos in Greek is the same word, anointed.

Prabhupāda: Oh, I see. So this Christo is the broken version of Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Pater Emmanuel: Yes, I think so too.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore God's name is Kṛṣṭa. So when Christ said that "My father, the Lord, hallowed be Thy name," that name is Kṛṣṭa or Kṛṣṇa. How do you think of it?

Pater Emmanuel: Yes, I think that Christ, (German)

German devotee: He says that Jesus as the son of God has revealed the name of God, yes, and his opinion is that we call name of God... The name of God is Christ.

Prabhupāda: The name of God is Christ. That Christ is another form of pronouncing Kṛṣṭa. And Kṛṣṭa is another form of pronouncing Kṛṣṇa. Therefore God's name is Kṛṣṇa. So Christ said to glorify the name of God, but somebody says in Christian that there is no name of God. Why?

Pater Emmanuel: We have name of God.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Pater Emmanuel: We talk God, "Father," or "our Father."

Prabhupāda: No, "Father..." Just like your son may call you, "Father," but you have got a name also, "Mr. such and such." My son, your son, everyone's son calls his father, "father." But the father has a name also. Similarly, God is the general name, but still, He has got a particular name. And that name is Kṛṣṇa. And that is accepted by Jesus. Jesus the Christ or Jesus the son of Christ or Kṛṣṇa. And he identified himself as the son of God. Therefore the name of God is... Either you call Kṛṣṭa or Kṛṣṇa or Christo, it doesn't matter. The name of God is Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṭa.

Pater Emmanuel: Yes, when we can't speak of a name of God, of a proper name... (German)

German devotee: He says that when we speak of a real name of God, that is Christos.

Prabhupāda: This Christos means Kṛṣṇa. (German)

Pater Emmanuel: Because a name is of God. We know the name of God only by revelation, by revelation of the son of God because the son of God is also God. He has the three personality: God, father, son and holy ghost. And the son has revealed the name of father, and His name is, who has revealed is Christos, Christ. And also you can as a name or all you take Christ, Jesus Christ.

Prabhupāda: So it doesn't matter, Kṛṣṇa or Christ. The name is there. And we are recommending according to Vedic scripture that in this age one should simply chant the holy name of God.

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Pater Emmanuel: Allow you a question? You know that we Christians are also preaching the love of God, and we seek to fulfill the love of God and to serve God with all our heart and soul. And what different from your movement who will the same? And why do you send your disciples in these Christian countries to preach the love of God when the gospel of Jesus Christ is also preaching the love of God, God love?

Prabhupāda: But if you don't mind, I can say that the Christians are not obeying the orders of God. Do you agree or not?

Pater Emmanuel: I agree.

Prabhupāda: Then where is love? If you disobey the orders of God, then where is your love? Therefore we have come here to teach them to love God. If you love me, you cannot disobey me. And if you disobey me, that love is not real.

Pater Emmanuel: Will that means that Christianity has to change their customs or the Christianity, Roman Catholic or Protestant, must return to the source?

Prabhupāda: (aside) You can sit on the chair if you like.

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Pater Emmanuel: (German) It is in the relation of man. "Don't kill," it says, the Christianity understands...

Prabhupāda: Why they understand like that? That means that Lord Christ was not sufficiently educated to use the right word, "murder"? Does it mean so? There are two words, killing and murder. Murder is especially meant for the human being. So do you think that Christ was not learned enough to use the word murder instead of "killing"? "Killing" means any kind of killing, especially animal killing. Otherwise you should have frankly openly used the word, "Thou shall not murder." Even if it is meant like that, so does it mean that he was preaching amongst the murderers? They are very first-class men? They are all murderers? Therefore the injunction. This kind of interpretation does not appeal to us. (German)

German devotee: He said, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that this commandment, "Thou shall not kill," is found in the Old Testament, and when Jesus was talking...

Prabhupāda: I do not know many testament, but I see in the Ten Commandments these words are there. If you want to support it by many testaments, that is, of course, your business, but we take the direct meaning, "Thou shall not kill"—the Christians should not kill. Interpretation you can give in your own way to support your business, but we see openly. If we can understand openly, there is no need of interpretation.

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Pater Emmanuel: And Kṛṣṇa cannot give the same permission for the animals?

Prabhupāda: Yes, the animal kingdom in the nature's way... Just like the grass is the food of the cow, and the cow is the food for man, but not for civilized man, religious man. The crude man. (German) (break) The perfect human being is described: śamo damas titikṣā ārjavam. Find out. (break) ...killing of animals and child, Christ's name. Then it will be perfect. I have not come to teach you, but to request you that your Christian religion prohibit this and encourages chanting of name of the Lord. So you kindly do it, that's all. (German)

Pater Emmanuel: Thank you.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. We are also chanting Christ or Kṛṣṇa, the same thing. So let us join to together and chant. If you have got objection to chant Kṛṣṇa, you chant Christ or Christo. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija-sarva-śaktis tatrārpitā niyamitaḥ smaraṇe na kālaḥ. He says that God has got many multi names. Any one of them you chant because each and every name has the same potency as God the person, because His name and He, there is no difference. And if we become designationless, if we give up these titles, "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," and simply chant God's name, then we become on the spiritual platform immediately, without any discrimination that "Here is Hindu, here is Muslim, here is Christian, here is white, here is black," that. We are preaching that human form of life is meant for God realization or to learn how to love God. That is real business of human being. So either do it as a Christian or as a Muslim or as a Hindu, it doesn't matter. But do this business.

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: And we are practically doing that. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa—this is our business. We always keep the chanting beads just like you are keeping. Yes. Chant, that's all. Everyone should do. Where is the harm? If everyone takes this chanting... You are Christian; you have taken. Why not other Christians? They also can take. Chant. There is no loss. By chanting, there is no loss, but there is good gain, so why should we miss this opportunity of chanting? The cats and dogs, they cannot chant. But we have got human tongue, we can chant. There is no loss, but there is great gain. Now, these young boys, they are always chanting. It is only practice. It is training. These young boys and girls, they could go and act so many things frivolously, but now they have given up everything. They don't eat meat, egg, fish, no intoxication up to drinking tea or smoking, no gambling, no illicit sex and chanting. (pause) If you can cooperate, then we go to the church and chant, "Christ, Christ, Christo, Christo, Christo, or Christo, Christo." Is there any objection?

Pater Emmanuel: No.

Prabhupāda: Then we should be allowed. Instead of keeping the churches locked up...

Pater Emmanuel: On my part, I...

Prabhupāda: No, no, we are talking with you. You are a representative of Christian kind. So instead of keeping the churches locked up, why not give it us? We shall chant twenty-four hours. Actually this is fact. Many places we have purchased churches. And before our purchasing, the church was practically locked up. Nobody was going. And because nobody was going, therefore it was available for purchase. In London I have seen. Hundreds and thousands of churches are locked up, or they are being used for different purpose.

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: I think those who are Christian priests, they should cooperate with this movement, chant the name of Christ or Christo and stop animal killing. This is according to Bible. This is not according to my philosophy, but their Christian philosophy. Simply let them do it and see how the situation becomes nice.

Pater Emmanuel: I am very thankful to you for this...

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (everyone goes out-end of this discussion) (Break)

Guest: (German)

German devotee: (devotee translates for German man) Where is it written in Bhagavad-gītā that sexual intercourse is only allowed in married life? Is there any statement in Bhagavad-gītā?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Find out, dharmāviruddhaḥ kāmo 'smi. Dharmāviruddha. Dharma, d-h-a-r, dharmāviruddhaḥ kāmo 'smi.

German devotee: Yes, Seventh Chapter.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Seventh Chapter. (end)

Room Conversation with Reverend Gordon Powell, Head of Scots Church -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Hmm, no. Practically, we have very little suffering from disease. The devotees... We are spending so much money, but we don't spend for doctors' bill. You see?

Reverend Powell: Well, normal doctors, but now, we explain to our patients that the doctor normally works with the physical level, and the psychiatrist works with the emotional mental level, but the church works with the spiritual level. And just as Jesus...

Prabhupāda: Spiritual level means to cure his material disease.

Reverend Powell: Yes.

Prabhupāda: The material disease is birth, death, old age and disease.

Reverend Powell: I'm sorry. I don't quite follow that.

Satsvarūpa: He said the real disease is the material condition in which we have to suffer birth, death, disease and old age.

Reverend Powell: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So these things can be overcome by Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation with Reverend Gordon Powell, Head of Scots Church -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That is not good.

Reverend Powell: What is your attitude to Jesus?

Prabhupāda: I have already explained in the meeting.

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: We, we respect him as transcendental representative of God, son of God. Yes. He's...

Reverend Powell: Is there some sort of relationship with Lord Kṛṣṇa? I mean...

Prabhupāda: Yes, there is relationship. He's coming from Kṛṣṇa. He... Jesus the Christ. Christ means Christo or Kristo or Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Reverend Gordon Powell, Head of Scots Church -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:

Reverend Powell: Thank you. The first part of that made me think of Jesus' parable about the talents, that some get two talents, and some get five and some ten. And...

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Come on. Sit down. Thank you. Oh, it is very nice. (handles paper wrapping) You can close the door.

Devotee: Close the door.

Prabhupāda: So all our disciples, they are young men.

Reverend Powell: Yes, I noticed.

Prabhupāda: Because they are receptive. And their intelligence is intact. Old man takes time.

Reverend Powell: (laughs) Yes, well, that's very true, sir. Your Grace, what's the parable of the talents, that some were given a few, and some were...

Prabhupāda: Now, the talents are described. Find that Eighteenth Chapter, śamo damas titikṣā. Then...

Reverend Powell: What I'd like (break) I'd like to hear this, but...

Prabhupāda: Talents are divided into three categories: the brāhmaṇa category, and the kṣatriya category, the vaiśya category and the śūdra category. They are described here.

Room Conversation with Reverend Gordon Powell, Head of Scots Church -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No. The principle... Wherever there are these talented persons, he is to be considered as first class man. He does not say that "If it is found among the Hindus or amongst the Christians..." No. Anywhere. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). These guṇa, these modes of material nature, is all-pervasive. So even in India they protest. Because I am making them brāhmaṇa. My disciples, they're offered sacred thread. They're regularly made into brāhmaṇa. So the Indians, in India, they're very conservative, perverted. So they accuse that "Swami Mahārāja is spoiling the Hindu system of religion, because he's accepting brāhmaṇa from outside." So actually they're also not aware... Creation of God... Here God says that "I have created." So God's creation is not limited. Suppose the sun is creation of God. It is not for India or for Australia. It is for everyone. So whatever created by God, that is not monopoly of a certain class of men. Yes. This is the idea. So these people, they do not know what is the meaning of a Vaiṣṇava or brāhmaṇa. That is not limited with a certain circle or certain country or certain society. Just like Christ says, "Thou shalt not kill." This is applicable to every man. Not only that the Christians should follow. Unfortunately, Christians, they do not follow. They are killing.

Room Conversation with Reverend Gordon Powell, Head of Scots Church -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That is not. Either you take Christian principle or Hindu principle, what is real principle, really principle, that is applicable everywhere.

Reverend Powell: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like Christ said that "Thou should be, one should be meek and humble to go to, back to home, back to..." Eh? It is not?

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So this is for everyone.

Reverend Powell: Yeah. (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is not limited within the Christian community. Everyone.

Room Conversation -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: They appreciated.

Devotee: Yes. Afterwards, Nick was speaking to one father from a different monastery, and he said he very much appreciated how much respect you had for other persons, that he could tell that you were really feeling respect for Lord Jesus.

Prabhupāda: Yes, why not?

Devotee: He appreciated that very much.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We must have respect. Respectable person must be respected. Otherwise, what it is? That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... Amāninā mānadena. Don't expect any respect for yourself, but you offer respect to everyone. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... Amāninā mānadena. For... In one's, oneself, what respect I have got? I am only most insignificant. Why people should respect me? This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I am not worthy anything. That is for personal. But others, even he is an ant, he's respectful, must be respectful, must be offering respect even to an ant.

Room Conversation -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:

So if we simply practice this, that wherever I derive some pleasure, that is God, then you become God conscious. To become God conscious is not difficult. Simply one has to learn how to practice it. That's all. Everything stated. Find out that verse. Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ. (pause) Who will not respect Jesus Christ? He sacrificed everything for God, even his life. So who is that rascal that he'll not respect to Jesus Christ. What did he do wrong to the human society? He did everything for the good of the human society. Oh, I have got very, very, great respect for Lord Jesus Christ. Not only... Every, I mean to say, God conscious man, he must have respect for Jesus Christ. There is no doubt about it. My Guru Mahārāja had very great respect for Muhammad, Jesus Christ... We pray Lord Buddha. Although he preached atheistic philosophy, but we know that he's incarnation of God. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. So a Vaiṣṇava is godly. He is qualified with all good qualities. That is Vaiṣṇava. That is Vaiṣṇava. He knows the value of each and everything. Therefore he's godly. And therefore to offer respect to Vaiṣṇava is also a great qualification. Even to offer respect to the Vaiṣṇavas is greater qualification than one who simply offers respect to God.

Reporters Interview -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: God is inside, outside, everywhere.

Guest (3): Who do you think Jesus Christ was?

Prabhupāda: Now, let us finish one. Jesus Christ himself said that he is son of God. That's all right. That's all right.

Guest (2): But if you take a drop of water and you merge it back into an ocean... This is an example that is often given by these masters, that if you take a drop of water and you put it into an ocean, that drop becomes one with that ocean.

Prabhupāda: The drop of water becomes ocean?

Guest (2): No, but it becomes merged in that ocean.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Merging is different. But the ocean remains the ocean.

Morning Walk -- July 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Now if they say that the killing means murdering, that means the people amongst whom Christ was preaching, they were accustomed to kill men. So what class of men they were? What was the society? A society of murderers. So what they will understand about religion, a murderer? (pause) So go further or return?

Jayatīrtha: We should probably turn around now, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (pause) If you're preaching honesty to a thief, you have to be careful that he's not stealing your watch in the meantime.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jayatīrtha: If you're preaching honesty to a thief, he may steal your watch. So Jesus was trying to teach religion to murderers, so they murdered him.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopāya na śāntaye. (aside:) Don't come very near. If you advise rascals, they'll be angry. No good result. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopāya na śāntaye, payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. So we have to become very strong preacher. Then this movement will stay. If you simply take the temple worship, it will not stay very long.

Morning Walk at Marine del Rey -- July 13, 1974, Los Angeles:

Bali Mardana: No, I didn't see.

Prabhupāda: "It is through Christ. It is through..." They were showing me. So that has been criticized by the newspapermen, that "Nobody cares for you." (laughter) Yes.

Bali Mardana: In New York also, we have to do negotiations very secretly because if they find out, they would not want to sell to us. They would be afraid.

Prabhupāda: Oh, New York, there was Ratha-yatra?

Bali Mardana: No, no. For purchasing the church.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Bali Mardana: They're also afraid that we will take over.

Prabhupāda: But that is not yet finished.