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Jesus (Conv. 1968 - 1973)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Interviewer: We're talking with Swami A.C. Bhaktivedanta, head of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. We'll be back in a minute. (break) KGO.

Caller: Yes, I wanted to ask the Swami if he didn't think that the teachings of Jesus Christ expressed exactly what he's saying. I'm not speaking of orthodox Christianity as such, but the essence of what Jesus said about the Father within and "If thine eye be single, thy body shall be full of light," and the beautiful phrase that he said, "Before Abraham was, I am." Has he studied anything about the teachings of Jesus?

Interviewer: Swami?

Prabhupāda: We don't disagree with the teachings of Lord Jesus Christ because he's speaking also the same thing which we are also speaking, about the science of God.

Interviewer: But she, I think she's saying, couldn't you just have taken the teachings of Jesus Christ as your religion?

Prabhupāda: But there is already adjustment...

Caller: (breaking in) No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that I believe that the Swami and many others who practice meditation and study the Gītā are really dealing with the same premise, the first cause, that Jesus spoke of.

Prabhupāda: Certainly.

Caller: Right?

Prabhupāda: Yes, certainly.

Caller: Yes, that's what I wanted to know. I think there is a comparison, not between organized religion as such, but just getting down to the bare facts of what Jesus spoke about. I think there's a similarity.

Prabhupāda: There is similarity, but one thing is, just like mathematics taught in the lower class. Two plus two equal to four is equally applicable in higher mathematics, two plus two equal to four. In higher mathematics it does not become two plus two equal to five. Similarly, the teachings of Bible or teachings of Bhagavad-gītā are the same, the same "two plus two."

Caller: Right, right...

Prabhupāda: But in the Bhagavad-gītā, it may be taken as higher mathematics. That's all.

Room Conversation -- March 25, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: There was one clergyman lecturing in a Sheffield coal-mine that, "If you don't worship Jesus Christ, then you will go to hell." So first of all one man asked him... First of all, the clergyman inquired, "Do you know Jesus Christ?" So they were silent. So one of them inquired, "What is his number?" They thought that "Jesus Christ must be one of us," I mean to say, workers in the mine. So he must have got a number. "So what is his number?" Then the clergyman could understand that "To whom I am speaking." So then he explained, "Oh, Jesus Christ is not one of you. He is son of God. He has come to deliver you. If you don't worship Him, then you will go to hell." Then one of them said, "What is hell?" Then he described, "It is very dark, moist, and so on." So they were silent, because they work in the mine. (laughter) They were silent. "What is this hell? It is all right." Then the clergyman thought how to impress them. Then, after a few minutes, he said, "No. The hell is very dangerous." "How?" "There is no newspaper." "Oh, horrible." (Laughter) Because in your western countries everyone is fond of newspaper. So he stressed, he hit the point, that "There is no newspaper." So we have to hit to the point that there is no tax-man. So what is your question?

Questions and Answers -- September 6, 1968, New York:

Devotee: Why do you say that Jesus Christ performed so many miracles when he (indistinct), and you never said that Kṛṣṇa performed any miracles. When Kṛṣṇa lifted up Govardhana Hill, nobody said that was a miracle. But when Jesus Christ made so many things, they say it's a miracle. How is that?

Prabhupāda: The difference is that in Vṛndāvana they are pure devotees. They knew that "Oh, this is not a miracle for Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa can do anything and everything." So they were not surprised. If I lift one mountain, you will be surprised because you know that "Swamiji is man. How he is lifting?" But they know that Kṛṣṇa is all-powerful. So there was no surprise. It is just like natural work. They were so much affectionate to Kṛṣṇa that... He was not only lifting. Every day He was doing so much great performances, and His boyfriends, they would come home, and they would narrate the story to their mothers, "Oh, mother, today Kṛṣṇa performed like this. There was a great demon, and He killed him immediately." And the mother will say, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa did that? He is very nice boy, very nice." (laughter) Because they were so affectionate to Kṛṣṇa, they always think, "Everything is possible for Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is so nice. Kṛṣṇa is so great." That is their idea.

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Journalist: Yeah, I would feel that you had not attained that level of being out of it yet that you wouldn't know that. I really think I've asked most of the questions that I want to ask. I really sort of knew the answers. The ultimate of the answer, that is. I can't really think of much else to say or to ask. Have you anything that you'd like to say that may be of some kind of revelation to me or to our readers or something that... You know, what you're really saying, there's no easy way out. (laughs) If man is to attain any goal in his quest for fulfillment, he's got to work at it is really what it amounts to. So your message is really no different from that of Moses or Christ or any of the other great religious leaders. If people will follow the ethic of Ten Commandments, and follow it, that's where it is.

Prabhupāda: We ask people... We don't say that "You give up your, this religion. You come to us." But at least you follow your own principles. And... Just like a student. Sometimes in India it happens that although they have passed M.A. examination in Indian university, they come to foreign university to study more. So why does he come? To get more enlightenment.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation Including Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.2.1-34 Recitation & Explanation -- April 1, 1969, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: They may understand or not understand, but that religious spirit is there. You are responding to my appeal because you have got that spirit. Otherwise, why should you come and waste your time with me? So religious principle must be there in the human society. And what is the purpose? Why? The religious principle means that this material life is not happy. And we are searching after happiness. So real happiness is not in this world. You take any, I mean to say, messiaḥ. You take Lord Jesus Christ or Buddha or Lord Caitanya or Kṛṣṇa, or anyone you take. Nobody says that "You make adjustment here and live peacefully." No. Nobody says. You know that. So religious principle means to know that this is not the place to live happily. This is the principle aim of teaching religion. We are trying to live here, making things nicely adjusted, peace and prosperity. That will never be possible. This is foolishness.

Conversation Before Lecture -- April 29, 1969, Brandeis University, Boston:

Prabhupāda: We cannot say, just like, in some hotels, that "Such and such persons are not admitted." No. We cannot. We admit everyone. Our mission is to elevate persons from down state of life to the highest state of life. So everyone is in down state. Lord Jesus Christ also said that "You do not hate the sinners, but hate sin." Is not that, Lord Jesus Christ said? So hippies may be sinners. We raise them to the pious life. But we say, "Don't do this. Don't do this sinful act. Don't take intoxication. Don't do this. Don't do this." We hate sin, not the sinners. Actually. If we hate sinners, then where is the possibility of preaching?

Miss Rose: If the hippies would come, come, come...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Guest (1): Would you say something about Christ and his relation to Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Christ? Jesus Christ?

Prabhupāda: Christ is Kṛṣṇa conscious. That's all. You become like Christ, Kṛṣṇa conscious. Don't you understand Christ, that he is fully Kṛṣṇa conscious? You don't understand it? Then you become like Christ, fully Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Madhumaṅgala: What does Madhumaṅgala mean?

Prabhupāda: That is not very good question.

Madhumaṅgala: (indistinct)...told me to ask.

Prabhupāda: Madhumaṅgala, you have explained when I initiated. Madhumaṅgala was one of the friend of Kṛṣṇa. That's all.

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: You simply talk of him? You practice Buddha if you appreciate him. You give up everything like Buddha and meditate. But that you will not do. Then what is the talking of, useless talking about this? Do something. Either you believe Buddha or Jesus Christ or Kṛṣṇa. Do something. Don't talk simply. Lord Buddha is very nice. He gave up his kingdom in youthful life. He was prince. He thought, "It is all nonsense. Let me meditate." Do like that. That is the disease. We won't do anything. We talk much of this, that, this, that. Do anything, but do it perfectly. "Jack of all trade, master of none." That is not good. Be master of something. It doesn't differ. Either you follow Lord Jesus Christ or Lord Buddha or Kṛṣṇa, it doesn't matter much. But do it perfectly. That is our request. (end)

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 11, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: No, no. I can talk with you whole night. (laughter)

Allen Ginsberg: So he said that his teacher in India told him that LSD was a Christ of the Kali-yuga for Westerners.

Prabhupāda: Christ?

Allen Ginsberg: of the Kali-yuga for Westerners in that, as the Kali-yuga got more intense, as attachment got thicker and thicker, that also salvation would have to be easier and easier, and that...

Prabhupāda: (aside:) (Bengali)

Allen Ginsberg: Namaste. (to Indian lady)

Prabhupāda: She is a Bengali lady recently come from London.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 11, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: They are very aristocratic family. I do, I did not belong to that family, but I was born in that family, you see? And from the very beginning the Kashi Mallik, they have got nice Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa temple. So I was standing before the deity, and I was seeing, "Oh, He is Kṛṣṇa. Oh, people say He is dead. How he is dead?" Like that I was thinking. And then my, I asked my father, "Oh, I shall worship Kṛṣṇa, give me." So my father gave me Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, so I, whatever I was eating, I was offering them. So the statement of the śāstra and my practical experience corroborates. So we we have to take instance like that, you see? Sādhu śāstra guru vākya. We have to test everything from three positions: the spiritual master, scripture, and holy man. Scripture means, just like Bible. What is Bible? Scripture. Why the scripture? It is fully contains the instruction of sādhu, holy man, or spiritual master, Lord Jesus Christ, therefore is scripture. The scripture means the statement of liberated holy man. That is sādhu. Therefore, scripture should be tested through the holy man and spiritual master. Spiritual master should be tested through scripture and holy man, and holy man should be tested through spiritual master and scripture.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: It is already in the dictionary. It is already in the dictionary. All dictionaries you will find Kṛṣṇa. What do you want more?

Allen Ginsberg: Something that will not disturb truckdrivers.

Lady (Indian): They can say Christ, they can say Kṛṣṇa. It is same.

Allen Ginsberg: That is true... True. But they don't say Christ. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Now Krist... I have read one book, Aquarian...

Kīrtanānanda: Aquarian Gospel?

Prabhupāda: Gospel, yes. In there it is explained that Krist means love. Christ means love. And Kṛṣṇa also means love. So there from Kṛṣṇa this word Krist has come. And in India somebody says Kristha. Instead of Kṛṣṇa, they say Kristha.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: Well, then how would you adapt the Kṛṣṇa chanting to Christianity? By seeing Kṛṣṇa as Christ or Christ as Kṛṣṇa and sounding Christ's image in Kṛṣṇa's name?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa, Christ... Of course, this question was several times put to me. Christ says that "I am son of God." And Kṛṣṇa says "I am God." So there is no difference. Son of God and God, we respect everyone. If I respect your father, I respect you also. Do you mean to say if I disrespect your father, you'll be pleased upon me? No. That is our philosophy. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that I am servant of the servant of the servant of the servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa (CC Madhya 13.80). So if anyone loves Kṛṣṇa, he must love Lord Jesus Christ also. And if one perfectly loves Jesus Christ he must love Kṛṣṇa. If he says, "Why shall I love Kṛṣṇa? I shall love Jesus Christ," then he has no knowledge. And if one says, "Why shall I love Jesus Christ? I shall love...", then he has also no knowledge. If one understands Kṛṣṇa, then he will understand Jesus Christ. If one understands Jesus Christ, you'll understand Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: That was the difference in Jesus Christ. He was a personalist.

Devotee: Hasidics are personal.

Allen Ginsberg: Yes. They put their devotion into the rabbi or the guru. The ancient Hebrew... I guess you must know about that. The ancient Hebrew teaching was that the name of God should never be pronounced.

Prabhupāda: Now we come to know...

Allen Ginsberg: J-H-V-H.

Prabhupāda: Anyway why God's name...

Allen Ginsberg: Pictures should not be made. Pictures should not be made. Because it would limit God to human conception.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. That is in Muhammadan. That means God is not material. That is the idea. Because here the idea is when I make something image or picture, that is material. So there is a prohibition of accepting God as material. But if you go to a higher stage, then you'll understand that if God is everything then there is no material. That is Vaiṣṇava philosophy.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 13, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: But that Aquarian Gospel said that Lord Jesus Christ lived in the temple.

Guest (1): (Bengali) Jesus Christ was there.

Prabhupāda: He was thick and thin with the priest. One priest was very friendly.

Guest (1): Vidyāpati.

Prabhupāda: And he was discussing philosophical talks with them.

Allen Ginsberg: According to the Aquarian Gospel, Christ was in Jagannātha Purī?

Prabhupāda: Yes. And he saw Ratha-yātrā, and there is, name of Kṛṣṇa is there.

Allen Ginsberg: Ratha-yātrā.

Prabhupāda: Ratha-yātrā, as we are performing, San Francisco. So Lord Jesus Christ saw.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Yoko Ono: But you said about if the milk goes through a serpent's mouth it will produce poison, and, for instance, George just told us about a week ago a very interesting story about a man who had a face of Christ, and in twenty years' time he had a face of Judah. And the Catholic Church and all those churches first probably had good words, and now it's deteriorating. Now, how would you decide, really, that brāhmaṇas are always in a pure state that you speak of, that they would never turn into serpents?

Prabhupāda: That you have to become a serious student.

Yoko Ono: Well, I mean, what do you mean by serious student? Maybe everybody, all of us are serious anyway. I mean, we're born serious or born, you know, unserious.

Prabhupāda: Then you must know what is distinction between Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān, if you are serious student.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

John Lennon: It's just a matter of archetype (?). I mean, would it be as effective to chant, "Lord Jesus, Lord Jesus, Hail Lord Jesus"?

Devotee: If you're sincere, sure.

John Lennon: But it's a waste of time of doing it unsincerely, isn't it?

Yoko Ono: Yeah, it depends on sincerity.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Lord Jesus says that he is son of God. He's son of God.

Yamunā: Your cab's here, Śyāmasundara. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: What is that? You want to hear? Come on, sit down. So there is no difference. Lord Jesus Christ says that he is son of God. So there is no quarrel between God and God's son. So he says that "Love God," and Kṛṣṇa says, "Love Me." The same thing. (laughs) If you say that "You love me," and your wife says that "Love my husband," there is no difference of opinion.

Discussion with BTG Staff -- December 24, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: Or Viṣṇu. Yes. Viṣṇu.

Hayagrīva: What about avatāras, in reference to Christ or Buddha?

Prabhupāda: Buddha is capital used. Jesus Christ is capital used.

Satsvarūpa: Yes. But he... Like "He." He means Buddha, "Who."

Hayagrīva: No, "He."

Prabhupāda: No. That you can use...

Satsvarūpa: Small.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discussion with Indians -- January 18, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: No, no, first of all you answer me. If I say, "Give me a glass of water," and you say, "It is not to Swamiji."

Guest (1): (indistinct) ...what the Christ says, Mohammed says, everyone says, that...

Prabhupāda: Let them surrender to Christ. But why don't you surrender to Kṛṣṇa?

Guest (1): No, that is true, but...

Prabhupāda: That is true, but you do not know how.

Guest (1): No, you see, our... Even your... Even your way of thinking and your purpose is that Lord Kṛṣṇa should be Lord of the whole universe, so...,

Prabhupāda: Yes, Lord Kṛṣṇa is lord, universe.

Guest (1): Universe?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Television Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Interviewer: Well, you know they say they never knew Kṛṣṇa, and you are, of course right. But different peoples name their Gods in different ways. You name your God Kṛṣṇa. In the Western world, many, many people name their God Jesus, Jesus Christ. There are other peoples in different parts of the world who have different names for the Gods which they pray to.

Prabhupāda: Yes. that's all right. We say in that connection that if you have got a name which is actually referring to God, that will also do. Just like we are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare. So according to Vedic literature, kṛṣṇaś tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is the... He has got many names. Thousands and millions of names. This is the original name. So Caitanya says not that you have to chant Kṛṣṇa, but if you have got actually a name for God, you can chant that. We are not asking you that you chant Kṛṣṇa. If you have got actually a name for God, then you can chant that. We are requesting that you chant God's holy name.

Television Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Prabhupāda: But I say that Jesus Christ never said, he never meant, "Thou shall not kill," means only human being. Where is that evidence? Jesus Christ never said "Thou shall not kill means it means only human being." Thou shall not kill any animal.

Interviewer: Any life.

Prabhupāda: Any life. That is religion.

Interviewer: It has never been interpreted that way.

Prabhupāda: But you have interpreted different way, but he said "Thou shall not kill." He never said "Thou shall not kill amongst human being." Why do you interpret in that way?

Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Interviewer: Well, you know they say they never knew Kṛṣṇa, and you are, of course, right. But different peoples name their Gods in different ways. You name your God "Kṛṣṇa." In the Western world many, many people name their God "Jesus."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interviewer: Jesus Christ. There are other peoples in different parts of the world who have different names for the Gods which they, uh, pray to.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right. We say in that connection that if you have got a name which is actually referring to God, that will also do. Just like we are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare.

Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Prabhupāda: But I said that Jesus Christ never said..., he never meant "Thou shalt not kill" means only human beings. Where is that evidence? Jesus Christ never said "Thou shalt not kill" means, it means only human beings. Thou shalt not kill any animals.

Interviewer: Any life.

Prabhupāda: Any life. That is religion.

Interviewer: It has never been interpreted that way.

Prabhupāda: But you have interpreted the wrong way. But he said "Thou shalt not kill." He never said "Thou shalt not kill among human beings." Why do you interpret in that way?

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: You can see whether he's loving God or dog. That's all. That you can see. Everyone can see, whether he has got good love for dog or good love for God. That you can see. Anyone can see. The test is there. Crucial test is there.

Revatīnandana: Jesus used the expression loving God or loving mammon.

Prabhupāda: That says, or... Everyone says different way. Mammon or dog is expression in the faith. That is the test. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says:

yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa
cakṣuṣā prāvṛṣāyitam
śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ
govinda viraheṇa me

Yugāyitaṁ, "Every moment is just like twelve years." Cakṣuṣā pravṛṣāyitam, "crying like torrents of rain." Cakṣuṣā pravṛṣāyitam, śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ. "Oh, I find everything is vacant." Govinda viraheṇa me, "without God, without..." This is an ideal picture. So another test is, bhaktiḥ pareśānubhava-viraktir anyatra syāt. If one has become lover of God, naturally he will be detached to material enjoyment. Love of God and love of material world cannot go together. Either this or that. Just like Lord Jesus Christ.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: That is love of God. So the ideal is Lord Jesus Christ, and the follower must be, at least to some extent, to that point. That is test. So we say that you follow any religious path. That doesn't matter. We want to see whether you are lover of God. That is our propaganda. And if one is serious about loving God, it doesn't matter in which way he'll develop that dormant love. It doesn't matter. Just like one, a person wants to be a very nice student of mathematics. It doesn't matter from which university he takes the degree. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. He can go. Just like students are coming from one country to another, one country to another. Because his aim is education. So if one is serious about loving God, then it doesn't matter in which way he learns that art. It doesn't matter. He won't discriminate, "Oh, I must learn this art from this university." No. Any university. It doesn't matter. So our principle is that we are teaching love of God. So actually, those who are after God, they are coming. It doesn't matter whether he is in America, in Russia, in Africa, or Canada. It doesn't matter.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Sister Mary: We say Jesus Christ.

Prabhupāda: But Jesus Christ never said that He is God. He said "Son of God." We have no objection to chant the name, holy name of Jesus Christ. We have no objection. But we are preaching that "Chant the holy name of God." If you haven't got any name of God, then you chant our conception of name of God, Kṛṣṇa. We don't say Kṛṣṇa.

nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija-sarva-śaktis
tatrārpitā niyamitaḥ smaraṇe na kālaḥ
etādṛśī tava kṛpā bhagavān mamāpi
durdaivam īdṛśam ihājani nānurāgaḥ

Lord Caitanya says, in each and every name of God... There are many names of God. But in each and every name of God, the full potency of God is there. So... And there is no hard and fast rule for chanting the holy name of God. Anywhere, at anytime, anyone, in any circumstances, he can chant. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says "My Lord, You are so merciful that in this age..." Why...? Not in this age. Every age. "You are always in full potency in Your name.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Revatīnandana: They have got this prayer, "Lord Jesus have mercy on me, a miserable sinner." And she was showing me they have a, almost like japa beads. Show him.

Sister Mary: You see, here.

Revatīnandana: They're almost like japa mālā.

Sister Mary: We do it in some, together, in the orthodox church. And we take turns doing two hundred.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Guest (1): And... These are for counting.

Prabhupāda: That is nice. We also do the same thing. We chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Sister Mary: "Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on us."

Prabhupāda: Oh, what is the wording?

Sister Mary: "Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on us."

Prabhupāda: "Lord Jesus Christ, son of God..."

Revatīnandana: "Have mercy on us."

Sister Mary: It's a little prayer.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Sinful? "We are sinful?" You say, "sinful" something? "Forgive some sins" or something like?

Haṁsadūta: "Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on us." That is the prayer.

Sister Mary: And you say it in your own language.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. "Lord Jesus Christ, the son of God, have mercy on us." That's nice. Very good.

Sister Mary: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: That is nice. Now, the, by praying, it is expected that one should have mercy of God. So what is the test that he has got the mercy of God?

Sister Mary: The mercy of God is the love of God, isn't it?

Prabhupāda: That's it. Mercy of... So... That is the test, that he has learned how to love God. Kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te (CC Madhya 19.53). Caitanya Mahāprabhu is also worshiped, that "You can give love of God." Kṛṣṇa prema-pradāya te. Namo mahā-vadānyāya. "You are the most munificent of all incarnations because You are distributing love of God." Kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te (CC Madhya 19.53). Kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa-caitanya-nāmne. "You are Kṛṣṇa in the form of devotee of Kṛṣṇa. So I offer my respects." This is Rūpa Gosvāmī's prayer.

Conversation with Journalists -- August 18, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Now just try to understand Christian religion is good, provided the followers of the Christian actually follow. But they are not following. They are not following. They are simply artificially stamping, "I am Christian." In the Christian religion the first order is thou shall not kill." But the Christians are very expert in killing. So who is Christian? First of all let me see. Their First Commandment is, Lord Jesus Christ, that "Thou shall not kill." Now, every one is killing and still he is Christian. So this kind of Christian religion, or Hindu religion, what will be the benefit? If you don't follow, simply you stamp yourself that "I am Christian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim..." That is going on. Nobody is Christian. Nobody is Hindu. Nobody is Muslim. Everyone is demon. Everyone is demon. That is our proposal. There is no Christian, there is no Hindu, there is no Muslim. That is our proposal.

Conversation with Journalists -- August 18, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Well, become religious. If you are really Christian, that is all right. But you are not Christian because you are violating the orders of Lord Jesus Christ. Lord Jesus Christ sacrificed his life and he says that he atoned for your sins, but you are not stopping your sinful life, and still you are claiming to be Christian. The fun is going on. Actually there is no Christian. Otherwise Christian religion is very nice religion. Yes.

Journalist (1): Do you think that you can help large numbers of people in this country understand that...

Prabhupāda: I can help everyone provided he takes my help. If you refuse my help, how can I help you?

Journalist (1): No, I'm merely suggesting that you would...

Prabhupāda: Yes, What is our...? I am helping. I am asking people to become God conscious. But if you refuse to become God conscious how can I help you?

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Christian religion is practically, from the name it appears-Christian and "Kṛṣṇian". Original word of this "Christ" comes from the Greek word "Christo".

Dr. Weir: Anointed.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This "Christa" is Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Weir: From the Sanskrit?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṭa is the popular word for Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa is always anointed with tilaka. We follow this tilaka, Kṛṣṇa, anointed, with this sandal pulp. So, so far I think, there is some very nearest relationship with this Christian and "Kṛṣṇia". Kṛṣṭa means love, love of Godhead or love. We are preaching also the same philosophy. Try to... Not try. The love of Kṛṣṇa is there in everyone's heart, but it is covered. And being covered, it is misplaced. We are loving our society, loving this body, loving our family, loving our kinsmen, or loving internationally human society. But this love is actually perverted reflection of real love of God. Because the love is not placed in the real place. Therefore we are being frustrated in love. Just like in our country Mahatma Gandhi, he loved his country very much. But at the last moment the countrymen shot him down. He was shot down by his own countrymen. The love was paid by (sic:) shooting him and he lost his life. There are many instances.

Dr. Weir: Socrates, Christ, plenty.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: That we give, the picture. Here is God.

Śyāmasundara: Just like Christ. He came to speak with a very ignorant class of men. He was forced to speak in parables and stories.

Dr. Weir: Ah, yes. Now parable is better than analogy. An analogy is an intellectual thing whereas a parable is a human thing. It's a warmth thing. It's in three dimensions, not a cross-section. And He was, of course, awfully clever at choosing them.

Mensa Member: I don't think your friend, Christmas Humphries will agree with either of those statements.

Dr. Weir: Knowing him very well, I don't... One would be surprised (indistinct) perfectly happy to feel that I was disagreeing with him. I think he (indistinct) himself to Kṛṣṇa at times.

Mensa Member: Well, is that absolutely (indistinct)

Śyāmasundara: The Buddhist thinks that everyone is God.

Prabhupāda: In Buddhist theory there is no acceptance of God. There is simply to diminish, or to nullify the sense of pains and pleasures. That is called nirvāṇa.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Dr. Weir: That's what I say Unitarians apparently by having so much of this in their (indistinct) in quite a different way from a different philosophy. And, of course, you begin to feel that they must be very (indistinct) because they were so persecuted. If a person is no real menace to you, you don't have to persecute him. I think Socrates and Christ are perfect examples of that.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Dr. Weir: I think that's been most fascinating, Swami, very kind of you, indeed.

Prabhupāda: Thank you.

Dr. Weir: And we would welcome you if you would just comply with our simple requirements. We don't have as one of our requirements the acceptance of anything other than the task of spending about, at the maximum an hour and a half doing some simple problems. It's an open invitation.

Śyāmasundara: To one of your meetings.

Dr. Weir: Oh no, to the test for the qualification.

Śyāmasundara: Oh, a test. They have a test for entry into their society and they want to know if you can take this test.

Prabhupāda: Why not you come to our society and we test you.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Mensa Member: But the whole thing (indistinct) about this (indistinct) Kṛṣṇa instead of Christ.

Dr. Weir: But the whole business, if you try to explain...

Prabhupāda: In Geometry they say the point has no length nor breadth. But that is not fact. The point has length and breadth but you cannot measure it.

Dr. Weir: Ah, but the mathematician would say that that isn't the definition of a point is something that has no breadth or depth, but his purpose is working out his philosophy.

Mensa Member: (indistinct) he'd say something entirely different... absolute (indistinct) point.

Prabhupāda: But if you magnify the point you'll find there is...

Dr. Weir: But, coming back to...

Prabhupāda: It is a question of vision. With your present imperfect vision you do not see. When you take a magnifying glass you see, "Oh, there is length and breadth."

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1971, Delhi:

Śyāmasundara: Sometimes the Christians they say that, "According to our scriptures that Christ is the only way. And unless one is worshiping God through Christ, that is heathenism."

Prabhupāda: So what Christ teaches? Let us see what Christ teaches, then we can understand whether only through Christ we can... What is his teaching?

Devotee (1) (lady): His first teaching is that, "Love the Lord thy God with all they heart, with all thy might, with all thy (indistinct)."

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: That's nice. But they do not follow and still they say they are Christians. They do not follow. Christ is all right. According to the time, according to the country, according to the atmosphere, he's all right, but the followers, they reject.

Devotee (1): The followers try to make everyone fear God. Their whole aim is to make everyone so much afraid. They always try to instill fear in everyone they speak to. "You are going to hell."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is the principle of eternal hell that is used to make people surrender, fear of eternal hell.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (1): Fear of God.

Prabhupāda: According to time... Deśa-kāla-pātra. That kind of forceful, does not act very nicely. One should know the science, but the class of men to whom Jesus Christ said, they are not very much advanced. Under the circumstances, the fearfulness of hell is quite appropriate for them. Actually, one who does not go back to home, back to Godhead, he is put into the hellish condition of life. That is fearfulness, but we are so blunt that we do not take care. It is fearful.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1971, Delhi:

Devotee (3): See the idea is that you could not remember perfectly 'cause the taste is gone, the līlā is death mostly. But it isn't death, the basics are there, but they're teaching death. And so any intelligent person says, "I want to go to Jesus, but then what do I do? If it is everlasting hell, then heaven must be also everlasting, but what do we do?" And if it's void, then it will not keep the people interested, therefore people are leaving religion.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is very good reason. There is no hope, better go to hell. (laughter) At least there is something. Never mind. Yes, hopelessness is not good.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1971, Delhi:

Devotee (4): I think if there is so much fear being preached in Christianity originally the Old Testament was the testament of the vengeful God and the New Testament was supposed to be the love of Christ. So if there is so much fear being preached it seems to be a reflection of individual consciousness more than the religion. They are preaching so much fear, it would seem to stem from their own activities, that maybe they do have this fear rather than the true reflection of the religion that Christ was teaching. He was supposedly (indistinct) to take up the sins of his disciples and to help them lead the nice life and lead them back. He said, he referred to them as his flock. So he was taking the role of a protector and yet the Christians you speak to, they talk about hanging you over hell by a thin thread that can be burnt away at any second. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Devotee: He said the Christians... (break)

Prabhupāda: But generally the Christians they are very much confident that all of our sinful actions they have been absorbed by Lord Jesus Christ so we can do anything.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Therefore they say the Christian religion is very good. Very good means that Lord Jesus Christ has taken contract for absorbing all their sins and they go on committing. Is that not idea in the Christian religion?

Devotee: Yes.

Devotee (1): They say all our sins have been washed away by the blood of Jesus.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I know, Prabhupāda, that in Seattle you had me lecture on a newspaper clipping that in New Jersey they had opened up one home for alcoholic priests. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Five thousand, five thousand priests, they are suffering from alcoholism.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1971, Delhi:

Devotee (5): The spiritual master, his duty is to take all of his disciples back to home, back to Godhead, and I've heard it said that he doesn't leave until he has taken all his disciples back. What is the position of Lord Jesus when so many people are following but not doing, not in a position to go back to home, back to Godhead? Is he responsible for all of these people, who are attempting to serve him?

Prabhupāda: That is nice question. What is that? Repeat it again.

Devotee (5): Because the guru is responsible for taking all of his disciples back to home, back to Godhead, I was wondering what was the position of Lord Jesus Christ because so many people for so many years have been attempting to follow his teachings, many of them sincere but not getting proper instructions. I was wondering if he is responsible for all of these people who are attempting to serve him.

Prabhupāda: But one thing is we sing daily, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo **. You have to please your spiritual master. But yasyāprasādān na gatiḥ kuto 'pi, if you displease your spiritual master then you are nowhere. How do you adjust these things? It does not mean that because you have made somebody spiritual master, you displease him, at the same time he takes responsibility. Is it very nice?

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: If you please him, then he is responsible. Yasyāprasādān na gatiḥ kuto 'pi. If you displease him then you are nowhere. So, if you take it in this way, that my spiritual master has taken responsibility so whatever nonsense I do, it doesn't matter. The Christians are thinking like that. Jesus Christ has taken contract for all our sinful activities, so we can do anything, whatever we like. But that is not the fact. If one takes responsibility for you, you must abide by his order. Otherwise how is that, that he simply takes responsibility and you don't abide by his order? It is reciprocal. But the Christians are thinking, "Because we have taken to Christian religion, now we are safe. We can do anything we like and Lord Jesus Christ will compensate. He'll be every time crucified and we can go on doing all nonsense." Is it not? Then? That's not a very good idea. This is, as Viśvanātha Cakravartī said, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo **. If you please your spiritual master, then God will be pleased. If you don't please him, then you are nowhere. So first of all you please Jesus Christ, that is reasonable, then he takes the responsibility. If you disobey Jesus Christ in every step, what is his responsibility? That is a misconception.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1971, Delhi:

Devotee (5): There are some Christians who are actually sincere and they feel as though they are doing the proper thing, but they are just misled by the fact that there is no paramparā system coming from Lord Jesus. The churches are teaching the wrong thing, but they are sincere. (indistinct) Kṛṣṇa will direct them (indistinct) the proper authority?

Prabhupāda: Yes. If they are actually following strictly the principles of Jesus Christ, then sometimes when he meets some pure devotee, he will accept. The groundwork will be nice for accepting farther advancement. Just like Jesus Christ says, "Thou shall not kill." So if anyone follows this principle, "No, I shall not kill," then he becomes purified. But who is that Christian who is not killing? So where is follow? Amongst the Christians the more killing process is going on very strongly. So who is a Christian? In that, if you disobey the first principle of Christianity, then where is your Christianity? Why you falsely claim that you are a Christian? "Thou shalt not covet."

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Not... So many things. So, if you do not follow the principles of Christianity, simply by stamping yourself as Christian, will that do? So why Jesus Christ will be responsible for you? Simply by stamping yourself that "I am Christian." Is that very reasonable proposal?

Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Lord Jesus himself never claimed that he would be responsible. As a matter of fact, he would heal certain persons who by their karma were blind, or lame deaf, or some disease, even dead, he would bring them back to life, so many things. And then when he healed them, he invariably said after, he said, "Now go thou and sin no more lest the worst thing befall you." And he has been saved by Jesus personally, yet Jesus is saying, "lest the worst thing befall you." How can the worst thing befall you if everything he does then is all right? So that means Jesus does not take that responsibility.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why he should be responsible? If you are not a Christian, why he should be responsible? Now, here he says that "Now you have sinned, full reaction I have washed, don't do it again."

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: But they are going to church, confessing every week, and doing the same thing. Who is a Christian, first of all find out, then Jesus Christ will take responsibility.

Devotee: They are gambling and eating flesh right in the churches, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, I mean to say, if you don't follow the Christian principles, how you can claim yourself to become a Christian and how you can ask Jesus Christ to take responsibility for you? These are misleading, therefore people are coming disgusted. Otherwise Christian religion is all right. It teaches love of Godhead, teaches to become moral, it teaches to love people, that's nice. These are good principles.

Viṣala: So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the Bible it says, "Thou shalt not kill", and the Christians say, "Yes, thou shalt not kill but you can kill animals." (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. Where it is written that thou shalt not kill animals? "Thou shalt not kill." "Thou shalt not kill," means you shall not kill anything. (break)

Devotee: ...because Jesus ate fish. (laughter)

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1971, Delhi:

Devotee: Because Jesus ate fish.

Prabhupāda: Jesus said?

Devotee (6): He said that the... (break)

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) allowed.

Devotee (6): But if there's no vegetables you have to eat something.

Śyāmasundara: I read an article once that said...

Prabhupāda: No, no, the thing is that one has to eat. And whatever you eat that is coming out of some living entity, even if you eat vegetables. The vegetable has also life, the tree, the plant. So, the real explanation is that you take which is offered to Kṛṣṇa. That is nice philosophy. Killing you have to do, either you kill vegetable or animal, killing you have to do. Therefore our proposition is that you take the prasādam of Kṛṣṇa, so if killing is bad then the responsibility goes to Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1971, Delhi:

Devotee (2): "Thou shalt not kill" is one of the ten commandments which is much older than Jesus' teachings. Moses delivered the ten commandments to the people of Israel thousands of years before Jesus appeared. So they knew all this before Jesus.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (2): They lived by the ten commandments, or were expected to, way before Jesus appeared. The ten commandments are Moses, Moses' teachings.

Nara-Nārāyaṇa: They were all very much meat-eaters, though. In the time of Moses all the laws of kashruth, how to sanitary slaughter, which is supposedly given by God, these were all for meat-eating.

Devotee: That came after the Book of Misrad. Misrad recommends vegetarian.

Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Really?

Devotee: And also Lord Jesus says that if there is unnecessary killing of animal that "By my hand you shall be slain.". In Genesis. He is stating, "Yes, one may kill, but if there is unnecessary killing, by my hand you shall be slain." In Genesis.

Devotee (1): Also, in Genesis is says that the fruits and herbs of the land shall be your meat. It's describing how man should live and it says that fruits and herbs of the land shall be your meat.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they were meat-eaters, so Jesus Christ replies that fruit should be your meat.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes, they were meat-eaters, so Jesus Christ replies that fruit should be your meat.

Devotee: The whole key is that (indistinct) disregard everything that has been taught in the past and listen to me. He speaks so many things and he does not lay out so many basic principles about the eating of flesh, having illicit sex connections and so many things. He speaks just slightly touching the subject. He doesn't really give any basic principles. So they always say, "Well, its okay to do this, its okay to do that, because Jesus said forget everything that was said in the past. That's their basic principle.

Devotee (1): And he also said, "I've not come to change the law." He did not come to change the law.

Devotee: That's just their standpoint. (indistinct) I don't mean to argue.

Śyāmasundara: The knowledge that we have of Jesus was not direct, but it was written down up to a 100 or 200 years later in another language called Aramaic, and scholars recently have discovered that wherever Jesus refers to fish, distributing fish, that that word actually refers to a type of sea plant that grows in the Sea of Galilee which they make a type of bread out of. And it's not really fish but a type of vegetarian bread. This is what I read in an article. So, we don't have... (laughter)

Devotee (7) (lady): Śrīla Prabhupāda, there was a fish on Laksmi's hand yesterday. The Deity in the temple, where Laksmi had her hand up like this, there was a fish here across her hand. What is this?

Prabhupāda: That is a mark, mark.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Bob: ...that when Jesus came, the people then were somewhat more ignorant and needed miracles as aid. Was that... I wasn't sure if that's quite what you said.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. Miracle means ignorant.

Bob: I had asked this in relation to all the miracle men you hear about in India.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is the highest miracle man.

Bob: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is stated by Kuntī.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: You see, Kṛṣṇa says that ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). So Kṛṣṇa's so powerful that He can immediately take up all the sins of others and immediately make it gone. But when a living entity plays the part on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, he also takes the responsibility of these sinful activities of his devotee. So to become a guru is not an easy task. You see? He has to take all the poisons and absorb. So sometimes, because he's not Kṛṣṇa, so sometimes there is some trouble. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu forbidden that "Don't make many śiṣyas, many disciples." But for preaching work we have to accept many disciples, for expanding preaching. Never mind we suffer. But that's a fact. The spiritual master has to take the responsibility of all the sinful activities of his disciples. So to make many disciple is a risky job unless he's able to assimilate all the sins. (pause) (break)... patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo. He takes responsibility for all the fallen souls. That is... That idea is in Bible. Just like Jesus Christ take all the sinful reaction of all people and sacrificed his life. That is the responsibility of spiritual master. Because he's Kṛṣṇa's representative. So Kṛṣṇa takes all responsibility. Kṛṣṇa is Kṛṣṇa, apāpa-viddham. He cannot be attacked by any sinful reaction. But a living entity may be subjected sometimes, because he's small. Big fire, small fire. On a small fire if you put some big things, (chuckling) then the fire itself may be extinguished. In the big fire, whatever you put, that's all right. Finished. The big fire can consume anything.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Bob: So Christ's suffering was of that nature?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Bob: Was Christ's suffering this...

Prabhupāda: That I have already explained, that he took the sinful reaction of all the people, therefore he suffered.

Bob: I see.

Prabhupāda: He said... That is the Bible, that he has taken all the sinful reactions of the people and he sacrificed his life. But these Christian people, they have made it a law that "Christ will suffer and we shall do all nonsense." Such great fools they are. They are... "Let Jesus Christ make contract for taking all one sinful reaction, and we will go on with all nonsense." That is their religion. This... They are not in sense that "Christ is so magnanimous that he took all our sins and he has suffered... We stop all these sins!" They have not come to that sense. They have taking it very easily: "Let Lord Jesus Christ suffer, and we do all nonsense." Is it not?

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: They are not in sense that "Christ is so magnanimous that he took all our sins and he has suffered... We stop all these sins!" They have not come to that sense. They have taking it very easily: "Let Lord Jesus Christ suffer, and we do all nonsense." Is it not?

Bob: It is so.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They should have been ashamed that "Lord Jesus Christ suffered for us. Instead of... We are continuing the sinful activities still. He asked everyone, 'Thou shall not kill,' and we are indulging in killing." And "Lord Jesus Christ will excuse us, take all the sinful reaction." This is going on. (break) ...should be very much cautious that "For my sinful actions my spiritual master will suffer. So I'll not commit a pinch of sinful action." That is the duty of the disciple. After initiation his all sinful reaction is finished. Now if he again commits sinful activities, the spiritual master has to suffer. They should be sympathetic for this, that "For my sinful activities my spiritual master will suffer." (break) ...attacked with some disease it is due to the sinful activities of the disciples. Exactly like Lord Jesus Christ was crucified on account of the sinful activities of others. (break) ...forbidden, "Don't make many disciples." But we do because we are preaching. Never mind, let us suffer; still, we shall accept. (break)... question was that when I suffer it is due to my past misdeeds? Was it not?

Bob: Yes, yes, yes.

Room Conversation with Gaurachand Gosvami At the Radha-Damodara Temple (Mostly Bengali) -- March 11, 1972, Vrndavana:

Guru dāsa: How can you doubt the authority?

Indian man (2): I think he has got certain preconceptions in his mind and, you see, he just tries to prove them by collecting all sorts of data that will just fit into his point of view.

Prabhupāda: Just like Gandhi wanted to prove nonviolence from Gītā.

Indian man (2): From Gītā. No, not like that. I would say like Brindarkara(?) wanted to prove that the..., that Kṛṣṇa story and Kṛṣṇa religion had been borrowed from West, you see, and they are a copy of Christ religion. Mandakara has done that.(end)

Room Conversation -- March 12, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: There is a book, perhaps you might have read, Aquarian Gospel. So in that book I have read there is a Greek word, Christo. Christo... Sometimes we don't say Kṛṣṇa, we say Kṛṣṭa.

Dr. Kapoor: Kṛṣṭa, yes, in Bengali particularly.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this Christo word means "anointed." Kṛṣṇa's face is anointed. And love also. And this Christ title was given to Jesus on account of his love for God. So on the whole, the conclusion is Kṛṣṇa or Christo means "love of Godhead."

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1972, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Banyan tree. There is small seed, very small. It contains the potency of a big banyan tree. You cannot create such seed. You create something, just like you are creating vitamin tablets. You are proposing that "No more eating required. You simply take some vitamin tablet." Is it not? Similarly, you create some tablet and sow it in the earth and big banyan tree comes. Then I will accept you. (laughter)

Martin: You, you say that... (break) ...who created this knowledge that this flower and the banyan tree is Kṛṣṇa. What place in the divine scheme do such great names as Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad have?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Buddha, we accept him as incarnation, as expansion of Kṛṣṇa. He's Kṛṣṇa working as Buddha, Lord Buddha. Keśava dhṛta buddha śarīra. He has accepted body of Buddha. That is our conception of Lord Buddha.

Martin: And Jesus Christ and Muhammad?

Prabhupāda: Everyone.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1972, Mexico:

Martin: Can a true devotee come face-to-face with God through the teachings of Buddha, the teachings of Christ?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Teachings of Christ, teaching of Buddha, they are meant for a particular type of men. Generally it is meant for everyone, but specifically for a particular type of men. Just like Lord Buddha, he preached ahiṁsā. They were a particular type of men. Lord Jesus Christ also preached to a particular type of men. "Thou shall not kill." That means they were killing. Is it not? If I say, "Thou shall not steal," that means you are thief, you are stealing. So a kind of preaching among the thieves and a kind of teaching among the philosophers must be different. That is the difference. Lord Buddha is Kṛṣṇa, Lord Jesus Christ was Kṛṣṇa incarnation, but they were preaching to a different type of people. Therefore you'll find difference of Lord Jesus Christ teaching, Buddha's teaching, Kṛṣṇa's teaching. Kṛṣṇa's teaching also is there, which is also Buddha's teaching. But more than that, because the persons amongst whom He was teaching, they were far, far elevated than the thieves and the rogues. That is the difference.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Bob Cohen: Prabhupāda, people that engage in religions, like these Jesus freaks and other people, they claim that Jesus is guiding them. Can this be so?

Prabhupāda: Yes. But they're not taking the guidance. Just like the Christians. Jesus guiding him, "Thou shalt not kill," but they're killing. Where is the Jesus guidance? Simply by saying, "I am guided by Jesus Christ," will do? "But I don't care for his words." Is that guidance? So nobody is being guided by Jesus Christ. They're falsely claiming. It is very hard to find out a man who is actually being guided by Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ's guidance is open there, but nobody is caring for him. They have taken Jesus Christ as contractor to take up their sins. That is their philosophy. They commit all kinds of sins, and poor Jesus Christ will be responsible. That is their religion. Therefore they say, "We have got very good religion. For all our sinful activities, Jesus Christ will die." Very good religion. They have no sympathy for Jesus Christ. "Once he has died for our sins, why should we commit again sins? Such a great life has been sacrificed for our sins." That is guided by Jesus Christ. But if you take it otherwise—"We shall go on committing all sins, and Jesus Christ has made contract that he'll nullify all my sins. Simply I go to the church and confess, and come back and again do all nonsense"—do you think it is very goodly intelligence?

Bob Cohen: No.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: That you... Actually one is guided by Jesus Christ, he'll get liberation, certainly. But it is very hard to find out a man who is actually being guided by Jesus Christ.

Bob Cohen: What I think about is the Jesus freaks, the..., these people that, young people that have joined this Jesus movement, and they read the Bible very often, and they try to...

Prabhupāda: But to read the Bible, but violate the Bible injunction, injunction. How they can kill if they are following the Bible?

Bob Cohen: I asked one. They said..., he said he claimed that Jesus was also eating meat in the Bible. But I don't know.

Prabhupāda: But that's all right. He, he may eat anything. He's powerful. But he has ordered, "Thou shalt not kill." You must stop killing. He is powerful. He can eat the whole world. You cannot compare with Jesus Christ. You cannot imitate Jesus Christ. You shall have to abide by his order. That is your position. Then you are guided by Jesus Christ. That is actually obedience. You cannot imitate. That is explained in Bhāgavata, that those who are īśvara, those who are empowered, they will do anything, but we cannot imitate. We have to abide by his order. "What he says to me, that I will do." You cannot imitate. If you say that "Jesus Christ ate meat," admitting that, in what condition he ate meat, if you do not know, then Jesus Christ is contradicting his statement. He's eating himself meat, and he's advising others not to kill. Do you think Jesus Christ is contradicting?

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: He cannot do that. That, that is real faith in Jesus, that he cannot do that. So "Why he has eaten meat, he knows, but he has asked me not to kill. I have to follow it." That is real Christianity. You are not Jesus Christ. You cannot imitate. He has sacrificed his life for God. Can you do that? So why you (indistinct) imitate Jesus Christ? You are imitating Jesus Christ for eating meat. Why not imitate Jesus Christ, sacrifice your life for spreading God consciousness? What do you think, Kīrtanānanda?

Devotee: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. When you preach, you can say all these things with so-called Christians. So what you are doing for God? Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). Just like sun. The sun is absorbing urine. Can you drink urine? If you want to imitate sun, "Oh, here is sun absorbing urine. Let me drink urine," can you? Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya. He is powerful. He can do everything. Therefore we cannot imitate Him. We have to simply abide by His order. That is real Christian.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Preach, preach, preach, preach, preach, preach.... Everyone is (indistinct). That Christian, "Oh what..., what Christian you are? You are disobeying the orders of Jesus Christ, and you (indistinct) a Christian." This is going on. We don't say that because you are Christian you cannot love God. We simply say that you are not following. If you follow, then you can learn also how to love God. I never said. So many questions are there. "By following Jesus(?), yes, we can attain perfection." Yes?

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, which would you like to take?

Prabhupāda: Any one will do.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: There is no Christian. Otherwise there is no difference between Christianity and our philosophy. They're Christian; we're Krishnian. And Christ comes from the word Kṛṣṭa. So if they actually follow the commandments given by Lord Jesus Christ, the world will change, immediately.

Devotee: Is that so...

Prabhupāda: Unnecessarily, false argument. Even Jesus Christ ate meat, you cannot imitate. You have to follow his instruction.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, our best, I have found that the best argument is, you practice. Proof.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So I shall go? No.

Devotee: A few minutes, I think, 'cause they are still packing.

Prabhupāda: All right.

Interview -- July 5, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: So, religion, very simple—I am talking with that man over there—religion means the laws of God. Simple definition. And one who follows the laws of God, he is religious. It doesn't matter whether he is Christian, whether he is Hindu, whether he is Muslim. It doesn't matter. Take, for example, your Christian religion. Lord Jesus Christ says "Thou shalt not kill", but I think cent percent of the Christian people, they are very much engaged in killing. So there are, I mean, disobeying the laws of God. Don't you think? What is..., what is the value? And if you disobey the laws of God, then what is your religion? It is simply show. God says, or God's representative, God's son, Jesus Christ says, that "Thou shalt not kill," but the whole Christian world, the killing art is very much favored. Maintaining slaughterhouse, shooting in sports, and creating (indistinct), and so many things, simply killing. And any film shown, when it is killing film as is very much popular. Shooting film is very popular. I see in your park the soldiers killing. This, this park I was passing. What is that park?

Devotee: Prospect Park.

Prabhupāda: Prospect Park. There is big gate, because there is a killing picture.

Interview -- July 20, 1972, Paris:

Frenchman: (indistinct) ...history of many masters and many great teachers such as Jesus Christ and many others... (indistinct) ...come to... (indistinct) ...message. (indistinct) ...today on the same level.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because from God's side there is always an attempt to make the people right. As soon as they're wrongly directed, some messenger comes like Jesus Christ or Buddha or, before Him, Lord Kṛṣṇa. So what we are preaching that is not new. It is God consciousness. And all the great messiahs they came. But the thing is that people are changing in their different education mentalities. So we have to present things in such a way that intelligent person can accept the old teachings in the western countries. Like Lord Jesus Christ... Either they're not being followed or they're not properly understood because in London I saw hundreds of churches are vacant. That means that it's so practical that people have no more interest in Christianity or the Christian people could not convince them of the spiritual necessity of life. Many churches are for sale. That's not a good sign. That means people have lost interest in spiritual life but fortunately the younger generation, they are taking to this spiritual movement.

Interview -- July 20, 1972, Paris:

Devotee: He asks: Lord Jesus Christ, when he came, brought a message of hope, peace and confidence, not only in this life but also the future life, life after death. He asks if Your Divine Grace would like to speak about (indistinct) your speaking.

Prabhupāda: So we are giving a message by which everyone can be happy in this life and next life also. Generally all religious sects they do not believe in the next life. Or even they believe they have no clear idea of the next life.

Frenchman: What is the present hope of the human society even beyond death?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Human society is... Human life is an opportunity to stop all the problems of material life. So if he does not do so, if he does not understand or take to this business how to solve all the problems of life, then he's missing the opportunity. We are giving very nice idea what is next life, how we can elevate to the topmost spiritual planet, how we can live eternally, peacefully, with full knowledge. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for all these purpose.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Christ says that "Thou shall not kill." They are killing every moment, and still they say, "What we have done?" How nonsense they are, and they are heads of the Christian religion. They are violating in every step...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The leaders.

Prabhupāda: ...the injunction of the scripture, and still they say, "We do not know." So many drunkards priest, they are going to hospital for treatment ,and they are eating, and they are getting married man to man, and still they say, "We do not know what we have done." Just see how cheaters they are.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Paramahaṁsa: Scientists, they have proven the truth that the world is round. Therefore scientists...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That must be, therefore the scriptures must be transcendental. Nonsense scripture, and people become nonsense. So except Vedic literature, all nonsense scripture. They are not scripture. Manufactured. This Bible was manufactured by the saint, this saint, that, according to their imagination. It was not spoken by Lord Jesus Christ. What was spoken by Jesus Christ, that they ignore: "Thou shalt not kill." They kill. Nobody is following Christian principle; neither Bible is perfect. But that, if we say, we will be shot. (laughter)

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Umāpati: That's their new religion.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "God has only one son." Why? God one son? I asked the priest, that "God is limited or unlimited?" "Oh, unlimited." "Then why should you limit it by one son?" He could not answer. "Ordinary men have more than one son, and God has got only one son." Why? He could not answer. There is no philosophy. How people will...? This system, religion, was taught thousands of years, some shepherds, some fourth-class men. And now people are so much advanced in science, why they will accept it? Jesus Christ is preaching first thing, "Thou shalt not kill." That means he was preaching among the killers. So what kind of men they are? Tenth class of men. And how this tenth class man religion will be acceptable by the first class men? Now people are becoming first-class men. These things are go on, dogmas and nonsense philosophy. That will not stand. Automatically Christian religion is dead now. Nobody is going. There is no philosophy. There is no science. How it will be accepted. And they are violating, simply violating. Whatever it may be. Christ says "Thou shalt not kill." They are simply killing. How it will go on? How long you can cheat people? What is the explanation there? The first order is "Thou shalt not kill." Why they are killing? What is the answer?

Umāpati: Sense gratification.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Paramahaṁsa: In Newsweek Magazine-it's the largest magazine in the United States—there was an article about the degradation of Christianity, and they summarized it with a cartoon, a picture of the devil, you know māyā. This is their image of māyā. And he was causing earthquakes. There was a very large earthquake in South America. It killed many thousands of people. So they attribute this to māyā. And right next to them was a picture of Richard Nixon, because he is a very famous, you know... He presents himself as a follower of Christ. And he's bombing Southeast Asia.

Prabhupāda: "Thou shalt not kill."

Paramahaṁsa: Yeah. And the devil turned to Richard Nixon and said, "It's hell keeping up with Christians."

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes, people will criticize like that. People are becoming advanced. How long you can cheat them with so-called science, so-called religion? Now you take up this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement seriously. He will give real thing. Try to understand.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Turkey, you see. Now, Christmas, God's Christmas, Jesus Christ. He said, "Thou shalt not kill." But his birthday is observed by killing, killing, killing, killing, killing.

Paramahaṁsa: And ham. Ham is also cow, isn't it?

Karandhara: Pig.

Paramahaṁsa: Pig. Pig and turkey they have.

Kṛṣṇa-kāntī: Actually, they kill the turkey on Thanksgiving, which is the day that they acknowledge and give thanks to the Lord.

Umāpati: For this great country.

Prabhupāda: For giving them opportunity to kill? And where is the opportunity? The Lord said, "Thou shalt not kill." Where do they get the opportunity of killing? That is another blaspheme. Where do they get this opportunity? They manufacture.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Paramahaṁsa: Not only did Christ tell them not to kill, but he also, he himself said that all his disciples were like sheep and animals and he was their herder. So he gave the example that we are all like, we should be like innocent animals. So many examples he gave like that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I remember this in Pittsburgh last year Śrīla Prabhupāda, in that meeting with the bishops, there was a Christian father, a Catholic father. So the question raised that Śrīla Prabhupāda said, "Thou shalt not kill," in the Bible, in the Commandments.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I was invited by some Christian priest in Melbourne, very good gathering. I said also the same thing.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think his answer was "When the Bible was written, Christ didn't mean this way." That was his answer.

Prabhupāda: Oh, He used that part. He has found out. The rascal. Beat with shoes, that what "Christian, Christ could not find out, you have found out. You are so great. Thank you very much. You are more intelligent than Christ. Oh. So why Bible. Why not write your Bible? Let us follow."

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No Gītā, or... Many translations, but the original Gītā is perfect.

Paramahaṁsa: Yeah. Well they are not even sure that the Bible is (tape is very distorted) As a matter of fact it's a known fact that so many of the excerpts from Christ's disciples were, how you say, censored. There were parts taken out.

Prabhupāda: Some Bible authorities say that there is no soul of the animal. St. Joseph or something.

Devotee: St. Thomas.

Karandhara:. That was St. Augustine.

Prabhupāda: Just see. How great fool he was. And he's a saint. You see.

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Krishna Tiwari: Nobody else has. We have made better than what others, everybody else combined, Christ and everybody else combined did, and Lord Kṛṣṇa included.

Śyāmasundara: How do you measure that improvement?

Prabhupāda: Now, this is another point. First of all you must settle up this. (laughter). First of all we must settle up this fact, that we are all under the laws of nature.

Krishna Tiwari: I agree, Swamiji, completely.

Prabhupāda: Now the point is, we, we say the laws of nature is also given by somebody else. That is our point.

Krishna Tiwari: Which probably I have nothing to add to.

Prabhupāda: That is the point.

Conversation with Mr. Wadell -- July 10, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No, I am just suggesting there is similarity and the meaning "anointed." And from Kristo, the word Christ has come.

Mr. Wadell: Yes, in English, that is quite true.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now the Christ, what is the meaning of Christ?

Mr. Wadell: I, well, it is this that he is the anointed.

Prabhupāda: No, Christ means love, something like that.

Mr. Wadell: It is connected, I suppose, with the word meaning grace, which is... There is another Greek word which is "havis."(?) But I am not a theologian. You know, I am not a brilliant man who understands all the meanings of the words in the Christian faith. But I think the word Christ means anointed, and that it may well be connected with another word which means grace or favor. But I don't think it is the same word.

Prabhupāda: My idea is that if we can connect this Kristo and Christ, that "love of Godhead," there is some meaning. Because we, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we are teaching people how to love God.

Room Conversation With Three College Students -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Jesus Christ is son of God. Therefore God must be person. A person can beget a son.

Student (1): God exists now.

Prabhupāda: Yes, always exists.

Student (1): But therefore where is He?

Prabhupāda: Why is He?

Revatīnandana: Where is He?

Prabhupāda: Where is He? He is with you. He is here. But you have no eyes to see, that's all.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: I am coming, yes. (break) ...dehaṁ punar janma naiti. Such person, those who are fully absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, such person, after giving up this body, does not accept any more material body. He goes back to Kṛṣṇa. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). "He comes to Me." So you cannot go to Kṛṣṇa unless you have your spiritual body. Because the spiritual world and Kṛṣṇa, they are all spiritual. So you cannot enter into fire unless you are fire. So you have to revive your spiritual body, spiritual consciousness. Then, after giving up this body, you enter the spiritual world. So Lord Buddha did not speak anything about the spiritual world, but his philosophy said that "Dismantle this material existence." Nirvāṇa. Nobody has preached that "You become happy here," either Lord Buddha or Lord Christ or Kṛṣṇa or anybody, Śaṅkara. Nobody. But modern materialistic people, they are thinking that "We can become happy by adjustment of our material condition." That is not possible.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

David Lawrence: I was very interested this last week to be reading a book which really was trying to defend orthodox Christianity, and it was by a very devotional Christian writer, and he, in fact, was making exactly the same points as yourself about the God consciousness of Jesus. I read the Ratha-yātrā magazine, and saw how, I think it was a nun that asked you about the position of Jesus on this, and you quite rightly said, "Well, of course, Jesus never claimed to be God." I do wish that some Christians would realize that. He was God conscious, wasn't he?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

David Lawrence: The churches in this land seem to have forgotten that. He never claimed to be God.

Prabhupāda: No, how he could claim? He's a devotee of God, he's servant of God. How he can claim? Of course, there is no difference between God and His servant. Yes. That we say. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata... **. Because a devotee, like Lord Jesus Christ, means confidential servant of God, there is no difference between God and himself.

Room Conversation with Sir Alistair Hardy -- July 21, 1973, London:

Sir Alistair Hardy: I certainly believe that. Oh, I think we're very close really, in our views of God, except that I'm concentrating on studying the working of God in the people of today. You are studying the message of God given by Kṛṣṇa in the... And I'm trying to show they are the same, the same view as that revealed by Jesus and by other great...

Prabhupāda: No... When we speak of Veda, Veda means knowledge. So knowledge means knowledge of God. Any scripture that gives knowledge of God, that is Vedas. Don't think that Vedas means that only the Sāma, Yajuḥ, Atharva. Those who are following the principles to give knowledge about God, that is Veda. Veda means knowledge. Vetti veda vido jñāne. Vid-dhātu is called veda, vetti. Jñāne when there is question of knowledge, these three forms are used: vetti, veda, vido, jñāne. Vinte vid vicaraṇe vidyate vid saptāyāṁ labhe vindati vindate. (?) This is the vid-dhātu description. So vid-dhātu means to know. So ultimate knowledge is to know God.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Woman: What about people who believe in Jesus, God? I mean, what about Christians? It might not have the same effect on them.

Devotee: But Kṛṣṇa is God, and Jesus is teaching exactly what Kṛṣṇa's taught, so there is no difference to a person that has a pure heart. If we chant, all of us who have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we've realized that Jesus Christ's teachings are fulfilled in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Woman: Oh, I see.

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But Jesus said that he's son of God. So we say Kṛṣṇa is God. So what is the conflict? God must have a son, one or two? So he's also the son. Where is conflict? (everyone laughs).

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Conflict is there when you disobey Christ. That's why Christ said, "Thou shalt not kill." All the Christians are simply killing. Where is a Christian? There is conflict. They'll support: this killing is this, this isn't that, this isn't that (?). They want to kill. That's all. That is conflict. If you actually follow the tenets of Christianity, there is no conflict. But if you do not follow, at the same time you say you are not Christian, there is conflict. It is clearly stated—I've asked so many Christians—that "Why do you kill?" Christ said "Thou shalt not kill." They want to support their killing process in so many ways. They'll never agree that "Yes, Christ says not to kill. We should stop it." No. They want to support it by various interpretations. That is conflict. Clear word is there, "Thou shalt not kill." And why they're maintaining so many slaughterhouses?

Woman: But it's the same with Arjuna, wasn't it?

Prabhupāda: But you are talking of Christianity. Don't talk of Arjuna now.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: There is no life. A simple thing, that if you disobey the orders of Lord Christ, how will you become a Christian, first of all? Where is your Christianity? Simply rubber-stamping "I'm Christian" you become a Christian, without following the tenets?

Reporter: Same as you were saying, Nehru was not a brāhmaṇa, but only because he was called brāhmaṇa. So...

Prabhupāda: No, why Nehru? Everyone.

Reporter: Everyone.

Prabhupāda: Everyone. Unless he follows the principles of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, how he becomes one? Therefore we have concluded everyone is a śūdra. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: I've seen Jawaharlal Nehru, Pantha(?)... They stuck to their position up to the point of death. Neither did they know that there is necessity of vairāgya. But Vedic philosophy says... All the ācāryas, they're all vairāgīs, either Śaṅkarācārya, Madhvācārya, Rāmānujācārya, they're all sannyāsīs. Caitanya Mahāprabhu. All vairāgīs. Even Jesus Christ, he was a vairāgī. Even Lord Buddha, vairāgī. This is required, but where is the vairāgya? They're simply attached to these material activities, and they're talking of high, high things. Their preliminary things is not finished, vairāgya. This is the first stage, vairāgya, bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra (SB 11.2.42).

anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ
jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam
ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-
śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā
(Brs. 1.1.11)
That is sarva-dharmān parityajya. This is vairāgya.
Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Then the next question...

Jesuit Priest: ...is the success in the next, which means union with God for eternity. That's top priority. And following Christ's words, "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God," then all the other things are of very minor importance. It's closeness to God and return to be one with the Beatific Vision in heaven. That's the top priority, that's our aim in education, and that's what Michael was taught when he was at Sunnyhurst. And that he does well and gets a degree, yes, very good thing. He could be a doctor or an architect or a leader in commerce, what have you, of which all of which are essential for the well-being of the world. This time last year I was dead. I was picked up as unconscious in the corridor, and the doctors said that I had experienced... I was as near death as makes no difference. Well, if it hadn't been for the skill of the man that...

Prabhupāda: So...

Jesuit Priest: ...looked after me, I wouldn't be here this afternoon.

Prabhupāda: So next life, how it will be ascertained? What kind of body I am going to next life?

Room Conversation with Mister Popworth and E. F. Schumacher -- July 26, 1973, London:

Revatīnandana: And just like yesterday, Mahādeva's parents came here, his mother came here along with a Jesuit family priest, about sixty years old. And she accused us that we had come and kidnapped him out of the university. And we said, "Actually, we didn't kidnap him. He came to our temple and didn't want to go away," which is what happened. She said, "Well, that's because he took some LSD and he had a false religious experience." So then I asked the Jesuit priest, "If your religious experience is as pure as he had just been saying, then why was this boy, trained up in a Jesuit school, seeking after spiritual life from a false religious process? Why was he taking LSD in the first place if his religion was satisfactory?" And he couldn't answer it. He said, "Well, there seems to be some kind of a spiritual," what did he say, "a spiritual lack or a spiritual something at this time for some reason." But he would not define it that he was unable to fill that spiritual lack by his process. And yet, we have filled that lack, or our spiritual master has filled that lack for thousands of young people now, who are not only God conscious, but they're practicing it every minute of every day. And they're practicing it practically, in the city or in the community or in the farm or wherever they are. So it's not that we're contesting the origins. The origin from Christ may have been very pure, but its present manifestation appears to be lacking something. And the young people are seeing that.

Prabhupāda: Just for example, that in the Ten Commandments, the first Commandment is "Thou shall not kill." So when I ask any Christian gentleman, "Then why you are killing?" they cannot give me any satisfactory answer. (pause)

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Cardinal Danielou: Oui. Bien. Cest, nous avons... We have today many community of prayers where young men go together and in the monastery or in the... N'est ce pas? And pray together with alternative of silence and of lectures, of some text of the Bible and of the gospel, you know. Because we, we think that the life of Jesus is the model or the shape, and we like that Jesus is the manifestation of God. He is the way, the way. Because it is necessary to find God, who is hidden, to have a way, to have a way. And for ourself, Jesus is the way to go to the hidden God. You know, you know. The imitation of Jesus is, for a Christian, the ideal, imitation of his poverty, of his goodness, of his love of God.

Yogeśvara: He says the ideal of Christianity is to imitate these various qualities of Lord Jesus Christ.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Cardinal Danielou: Yes. I think it is the character specific of Christianity, the importance of the person of Jesus. Jesus is the perfect model, you know, of the virtues, and it is apply the model on the savior because we think that Jesus is not purely man. He is a manifestation of God. God is gone amongst us to help the man to find Him. We know that the man research God, but his capacity of find, and is necessary that God come to help the man to find Him.

Bhagavān: We call that guru.

Cardinal Danielou: Yes. And Jesus, Jesus is this. So I am very, very glad to meet you...

Prabhupāda: May, may I ask you one question? Jesus says: "Thou shalt not kill." So why Christian people are killing?

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No, but Jesus does not says "human being". He just said generally: "Thou shalt not kill."

Yogeśvara: (translates)

Cardinal Danielou: (French) In the Bible we have many example of, by example, we have many sacrifice in the sacrifice of animals. You know. Many sacrifice of animals in the Bible. Alors. This is not forbidden. It is sure that it is a great sin to kill a man, alors. There is surely the great question of the war, the war, the national war. And is, it is...

Prabhupāda: You, you, you think that to kill an animal is no sin?

Cardinal Danielou: No, no, no. No sin. No sin. No sin. Because we think that the simple biologic life is not sacred. That is, what is sacred is the human life, the human life. But not the life, ass.

Prabhupāda: But I think that it is interpretation. Jesus Christ says generally: "Thou shalt not kill."

Cardinal Danielou: Yes. Jesus said, but this phrase is not, the text is not a text of Jesus. It is a text of the Old Testament, and it is a text...

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Cardinal Danielou: It is not a word of Jesus. It is a word of the Levitic, and it is a part of the decalogue of the Ten Commandments what God gave to Moses.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But Ten Commandments, one of the Commandments is that: "Thou shalt no kill."

Yogeśvara: (French)

Cardinal Danielou: (French) Mais, it is surely, I think, it is surely the killing of the man. I think, I have a great difficulty to understand why in Indian religion... Because it is impossible... By example, it is necessary, pour la nourriture?

Yogeśvara: For food.

Cardinal Danielou: Oui. For the food of man to eat, to eat, and...

Prabhupāda: Man can eat grains, food grains, fruits, milk, sugar, wheat...

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No. Just like God, if God says that: "You can do this," that is not sin. But if God says that: "You cannot do it", then it is sin.

Cardinal Danielou: When God says that it is not good to Indian, and says to the Jews that it is...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Now take... Therefore I say that Jesus Christ, either you call him God, or confidential representative of God, both of them are one, when he says: "Thou shalt not kill," why should we interpret in an another way, to our convenience?

Cardinal Danielou: Yes, but Jesus eated (French, refers to passover lamb)

Yogeśvara: (French)

Cardinal Danielou: Mutton, mutton.

Yogeśvara: Oh, the sheep.

Cardinal Danielou: Oui, the sheeps...

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but Jesus Christ never maintained slaughterhouse.

Room Conversation with German and Hamsaduta dasa -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Guest: (German) I would ask if in the Christian conscience if it gives anything which resembles to this, which is of some worth. Because in your books sometimes you speak of Jesus Christ. He also said: "What have we to do? We have to love God with all our heart and to serve Him." If it gives any movement in your knowledge in Western Europe or in the world in the Christian side one can read what is what.

Haṁsadūta: He wants to know if Christian, Christian teachings also bring the same consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Yes. One has to become...

Guest: (German)

Prabhupāda: ...purified.

Room Conversation with German and Hamsaduta dasa -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So why they have got image of Christ?

Haṁsadūta: (German conversation)

Prabhupāda: Why, why they keep Lord Jesus Christ's picture?

Haṁsadūta: (German conversation)

Prabhupāda: No, what is the philosophy. I am asking. What is the philosophy of keeping...?

Guest: (German conversation)

Haṁsadūta: He says he doesn't know.

Guest: (laughs)

Room Conversation with Rosicrucians -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So what is that ideal of perfection?

Yogeśvara: That it is nirvāṇa, it is the kingdom of Lord Jesus Christ. He says it is the ultimate point for which all men are ultimately striving.

Prabhupāda: So what is that? Nirvāṇa means zero. Everyone is trying for the zero?

Yogeśvara: (break) Nirvāṇa means something different for them?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Yogeśvara: (break) He says it is an entering into something that is alive and real.

Prabhupāda: Nirvāṇa, this word is Sanskrit word. Nirvāṇa means finish. (break)

Room Conversation with Rosicrucians -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: But is there such rules and regulation or injunction from the society that "You do not kill." Just like Bible there is, "You shall not kill." So they have no such thing.

Yogeśvara: He says Jesus ate meat and furthermore there is a sect in the Orient that wears gauze over their mouth so as not to kill microbes while they breathe. But we are killing those microbes. We have killed these flowers.

Prabhupāda: So they are to satisfy everyone.

Yogeśvara: Don't you think we are killing other living beings?

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. (break)

Discussion about Guru Maharaji -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So he should be insulted everywhere. Our men should go and do that, pie. (laughter) And when you have to (indistinct) He's God. Why can't you protect. He should have been killed. We have no such power. Otherwise, I would have obliged to kill him. Anyone says God, he should be killed. That is the example given by Kṛṣṇa. He should be killed. No other remedy. Only kill him. That's all. Then this false propaganda will stop. Just like the Christians said: Jesus Christ, God. And how God can be killed by crucification? We do not discuss this point, but actually this is the fact. He was empowered man, that we can understand. But we cannot accept him God. In our history, God is never killed. God kills others. That we have got evidence. And ordinary men, they took him, and crucified, and nobody, other, of the opposite party was killed. So that makes a little difference. So far son of God, that we accept. Everyone is son of God.

Room Conversation with French Nun -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Yogeśvara: She's asking... This is a French nun, and she wishes to know whether for us Christ is the son of God or is He God Himself or what is the identity of Lord Jesus Christ?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Jesus Christ says that he's son of God. That's all right. We accept.

Yogeśvara: (translates French throughout) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...ordinary son. And he's powerful son.

Yogeśvara: ...question. She asks what is the difference between our understanding of reincarnation and the Christian concept of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Christ said he would come again. Is there a difference? Is it the same thing?

Prabhupāda: I don't find anything.

Room Conversation with British Man -- August 31, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): Not that it will go on, but that it always has been. So far as I can understand. Now, because of my personal experience of the teaching and love of Jesus Christ, I know that he died so that those particularly in his time, and for all time, should live. Now if I believe that I am immortal, what does his saying really mean that I haven't quite understood. If he said that he died for me, that I might live, and if in fact I believe that I live anyway, what does it mean? Can you tell me?

Prabhupāda: Christ?

Haṁsadūta: What does it mean that Christ died for us, in order that we may live. Or in other words, died for our sins. He wants to know, because he's going to live anyway, he's eternal anyway, what is the meaning of that statement? What is the meaning?

Prabhupāda: So far I understand, the Christians give explanation that Christ took the resultant action of sinful life of everyone and he condoned by his giving his own life. Is that not?

Haṁsadūta: Yes. It is.

Room Conversation with British Man -- August 31, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No. That is mentioned in the scriptures, that at the end of this millennium, this yuga, Kalki avatāra will come. Kalki avatāra.

Guest (1): Now, because I am only versed in the Western sense of the old and new Testament, I understand that Christ is coming again at the end of this non-believing age in the world. Does that coincide with the son of God that you understand or is that a different sort of coming?

Prabhupāda: No,...

Haṁsadūta: Actually in the Bible there's, someone mentions there the description that the Lord will come and He will ride on a white steed, on a white horse. And at that time he will kill all the nondevotee people. It's also in the Bible.

Guest (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: So this Kalki, this incarnation of Kṛṣṇa which comes at the end of this age, He's described, He will come and ride on a white horse all over the world, and He will...,

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, Dr. Suneson -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Professor: Well, well, to some extent it's possible.

Prabhupāda: No, every extent. Anyone, anyone calling... So many philosophy or ism, he has got leader. That you cannot avoid. The Buddhists, they are following Lord Buddha. Christians, they are following Lord Jesus Christ. Mohammedans, they are following Mohammed. Similarly the communists, they are following Lenin, or Max. What is?

Devotees: Marx.

Paramahaṁsa: Karl Marx.

Prabhupāda: Karl Marx.

Professor: But, of course, in Sweden, most people, they don't, they don't follow anybody. So it's... I mean...

Prabhupāda: No, they follow. At least, one follows himself. Is it not? "Don't follow anyone" means he follows himself. He has got a particular philosophy, and he's the leader.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Paramahaṁsa: Christ.

Ambassador: Christ also? Constantine?

Paramahaṁsa: Protestantism, yes.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Paramahaṁsa: The Protestant movement also, when they broke away from the Catholic church, the kings would protect the movement and fight to protect.

Prabhupāda: It is king's duty.

Ambassador: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interviews with Macmillan and various English Reporters -- September 12, 1973, London:

Reporter (1): Can you tell me...? There's been an awful lot in these last two years said about the Jesus Movement. How does that sort of line up with Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: I do not know what is Jesus Movement. If you can explain, then I can speak. What is that Jesus Movement, I do not know.

Reporter (1): Well, do you know very much about Jesus?

Prabhupāda: Jesus, I know.

Reporter (1): Tell me about him.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Jesus, the son of God, he's representative of God. So we have got all respect and honor for him. We worship him. But I do not know what is about Jesus Movement.

Interviews with Macmillan and various English Reporters -- September 12, 1973, London:

Reporter (3): The Jesus Movement?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Haṁsadūta: The Jesus Movement. What about it?

Prabhupāda: Jaybees?

Haṁsadūta: Jesus. Jesus Movement.

Prabhupāda: I do not know. I do not know.

Reporter (3): You haven't heard of it?

Prabhupāda: No, I have no knowledge.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Not... Every country, every, all over the world. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam... (BG 18.66). The opportunity's open for everyone, but he'll not do it. He'll say, "Why shall I surrender to Kṛṣṇa?"

Indian Woman: But, Guru Mahārāja, if one has some original faith in Jesus Christ or Muhammad, would he...? They think they're sons of God or a messenger of God.

Prabhupāda: No, Jesus Christ says "I am son of God." He never says, "I am God."

Indian Woman: So if they follow Jesus Christ...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right. Son of God is as good as God. That is another thing. We have no objection. Suppose in a big office, the father is there, the son is there. And the son has ordered something. The father will never say that "Don't do it." Because father and son, the same position. That is another thing.

Morning Walk -- December 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Yes, Vaiṣṇava is, if one man is real Vaiṣṇava. Just like see Jesus Christ. It is said that he took everyone's sins and he was crucified. So how much merciful he is, just see. But these rascals have taken, that "Let us go on committing sinful activities, and Christ has taken contract. He will suffer. And we shall do this." Such rascals. You see. They say that "Our Christian religion is so good that even we commit sinful acts, Christ will suffer, we shall not suffer." Just see.

Bali Mardana: I was reading yesterday in the Newsweek that now the priests, they are dating with women and having sex.

Prabhupāda: They must have because they have no spiritual knowledge. Anyone who is not spiritually advanced, he cannot avoid the sex.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So these rascals, how do they claim Christian? Eh? What do you think? They're not even category, in the category of dogs, cats, and they're claiming that "We are follower of Lord Jesus Christ."

Sudāmā: But they also argue, Prabhupāda, that that law, "Thou shalt not kill," "I am not killing. The others are killing. But I am not."

Prabhupāda: Just see. Is that very good argument? "I am not killing."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But he's eating.

Prabhupāda: "I am not killing the snake. My stick is killing." Is that very good argument? (laughter) These rascals, all these rascals, they avoid. "I am not killing. I am not responsible. My, my, this stick has killed." Just see. If you go to the court: "Sir, I have not killed, my stick has killed." Just see how rascal they are.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is already there. But that does not mean man should kill them.

Prof. Wolfe: And Jesus did not reverse it.

Hṛdayānanda: Just like a man has dominion over his children.

Prabhupāda: Yes. A father-mother has dominion over the children. Does it mean that he shall kill him?

Umāpati: And eat them?

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is all rascals.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, we are speaking. We are speaking to the common man. We do not hesitate. We say, "Here is Kṛṣṇa, God."

Prajāpati: The most active or the most powerful of the theologians, they are very, very conservative Christian, and they say, though, that if they believe in Jesus, they cannot hear of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Why? If they are actually theologians, why they should not hear? Jesus Christ says that he's the son of God. But why not of the father. And what is this?

Karandhara: They make reference to one... He supposedly said that he was the only way, that no man could come to God the father except through Jesus.

Prabhupāda: Yes, so we accept the only way. Take Bible, and we shall prove there is Kṛṣṇa. Take Bible, yes.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, there is Bible. Yes. Here is. Practically nowadays there is no Christian. All heathens. Yes. Because they are... Therefore we are purchasing so many churches. And there are so many for sale. Nobody is going to. In London I have seen. Hundreds of churches are... some neighbor. Nobody goes. Only the churchtaker and the so-called one or two neighboring old women, that's all. So it is gone. Christian religion is now gone.

Yaśomatīnandana: Also, Prabhupāda, Christ never said himself that he's dying for their sins. But this is the later disciples of Christ, they claim that Christ has died for their sins.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? This is the fact?

Prajāpati: That's fact, yes.

Prabhupāda: Just see how they are. They're saying so many things.

Bali Mardana: Cheaters. In Germany since they lost the war everyone has become atheists. In Germany, because they lost the war, they all became atheists.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is foolishness. Just like a child is playing whole day, and if you ask, "Go to school," "I don't care for future life." It is, it is just like that. It is just like that. How the guardians can tolerate that, that this rascal is going to be a fool-number-one if he's not educated? So we are guardians. We are representatives of Kṛṣṇa. We cannot see this. The rascal may say like that, but we cannot tolerate this. This is our proposition. We must see that things are going on nicely, according to the plan of God. That is our duty. The rascal may say like that. But we cannot stop there. So this is a serious movement, and you should take very seriously from all angles of vision. (pause) Just like these Africans, they stopped my entrance. These rascals are thinking that Africa belongs to them. It is God's property. These usurpers, these rogues and thieves, a few Africans, they are thinking, "It is our property." Huge state, huge land, huge food products can be produced there and utilized for the whole human society. But they are thinking, "It is my property. We shall not allow." So many wrong things are going on in the name of nationalism, in the name of scientific advancement, and people are suffering. How we can see that? Everybody has bluffed so long. Now we have to stop them. This is our movement. You should ask, theologician, the government, "What kind of trust? Is it scientific trust, or simply...?" They do not trust even in... So-called Christians, they do not trust in Jesus Christ. But they are going on as Christian, as priest. Cheating and bluffing should be stopped. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. The rascals are flourishing by cheating and bluffing. This business should be stopped. So what do you think, Karandhara Prabhu?

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: I say that they are not Christian. They're all atheists. Christians, one who is actually Christian, he's good. But they are not Christians. They do not believe in Christ. Neither in his words. So what kind of Christian they are?

Hṛdayānanda: They're such rascals that some of the young student so-called Christians, they even preach that.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, any Hindus, so-called Hindu, if he does not believe in the words of Kṛṣṇa, what kind of Hindu he is? He's a rascal. He's a rascal.

Prajāpati: In days gone by, there were pious Christians who tried to follow in the footsteps of saintly persons, but there are no more...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Christians must be always pious.

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: As soon as we define what demoniac civilization is, then no one will support us because they'll see that they themselves are demons.

Prabhupāda: Yes, because they are demons they cannot understand. Just like one Christian priest went to some quarters, mine, gold mine. So he was describing that "If you do not worship Lord Jesus Christ, you will go to hell." So they asked, "What is hell?" So when he began to describe—"It is always wet. It is dark. There is no sufficient air, so on, so on"—they could not understand what is hell because they are already in the hell, in the mine. They could not make any distinction that darkness is a very horrible thing. Similarly, these demons they cannot understand what is demonism. Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ (BG 7.15). What is that āsura-bhāva? Not to accept God. This is āsura-bhāva. This is demonism. This is the basic principle of... Everyone is trying to deny God. Therefore they are demons. Who was telling that the medical man is considered to be first-class authority?

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So their God, Jesus Christ God, he could not even protect himself also. The reply should be, Christian, if Jesus Christ is God, then why he could not protect himself?

Karandhara: Well, the Jews say Jesus Christ wasn't God.

Prabhupāda: Well, but somebody said.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is just like the concept that if God is all-merciful, why He is so impartial, somebody making happy, somebody making suffering?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is mercifulness. Just like when doctor says, "You don't take anything today. You fast," that is mercy. That is mercy. It is good for him. By starving, he will be cured. That is mercy. And according to Manu-saṁhitā, when a man is hanged, that is mercy. If he is hanged... He has committed murder. He should be hanged so all his sinful reaction finished. Otherwise next birth, he has to suffer. He has to be killed by somebody else.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Devotee: They will say that Jesus Christ ate meat.

Prabhupāda: All right, Jesus Christ took meat, but Jesus Christ never said that you maintain slaughterhouse. Is there any Bible, anything?

Devotee: No.

Prabhupāda: Then you eat meat. All right. You kill and meat. Why you are maintaining slaughterhouse? Is that Jesus Christ's instruction, rascal? Thousands of slaughterhouse you are maintaining under the order of Jesus Christ? So they are rascals. You eat meat, all right. Jesus Christ, meat... Of course, once, twice he might have because he was a... (end)

Page Title:Jesus (Conv. 1968 - 1973)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur, Rishab
Created:17 of Aug, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=109, Let=0
No. of Quotes:109