It is very difficult to... (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"very difficult to"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: "very difficult to" not "not very difficult to understand" not "very difficult to understand" not "not very difficult" not "not a very difficult" not "not become very difficult"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Acyutānanda: Einstein was also a drunkard.

Hṛdayānanda: He would say, "I have taken this position, teacher, because I want everyone to say, 'I don't know.' "

Acyutānanda: So just say, "I don't know."

Hari-śauri: If you don't know, why say anything?

Prabhupāda: It is very difficult to deal with these rascals. The other day one professor came to see me from Khabudvīpa(?). He was very submissive, but still, he would argue like this, that "Whatever Kṛṣṇa is making me to do, I am doing." So I told him, "Kṛṣṇa is asking you to surrender. Why don't you surrender?" "No, when He will will, I shall surrender."

Acyutānanda: "He should make me..."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just see.

Acyutānanda: There's a story I tell.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Acyutānanda: So there was a man. "Oh, when he wills me to surrender, I'll surrender, and..."

Prabhupāda: But He is directly saying, "You surrender." Still, He has to will? Just see the argument.

Morning Walk -- March 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: With so much bunch of hair. Who are these men? Oh, they're working.

Bhāvānanda: They're paṇḍal...

Jayapatāka: They are making a paṇḍal.

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Black and white frame.

Guru-kṛpā: Salt and pepper.

Prabhupāda: Actually our, this society is united nations. And if we become disunited, then it is very difficult to adjust. (break) Yes. Linguist.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hindi also?

Prabhupāda: I don't know. (break)

Yaśodānandana: Parikrama

Prabhupāda: Parikrama?

Yaśodānandana: Acyutānanda Mahārāja just went to Calcutta to arrange everything.

Prabhupāda: What is to arrange in Calcutta?

Yaśodānandana: Well, all the devotees are coming, and they will be going to Śantipur, and when they come back, they will... We're working a schedule to take all the devotees to the various parikrama spots.

Morning Walk -- March 17, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Liberation means—that is explained by Caitanya Mahāprabhu—to become devotee. That is liberation. To become.... To become a devotee is itself liberation. (break) ...will come. Prasādam? Is there any such arrangement or not? They are coming. They should be offered some...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You mentioned the pots of halavā.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The pots of halavā. I inquired about it, and they said that semolina is very difficult to get now, that the government has only allotted some eighty pounds of semolina to be purchased.

Prabhupāda: No, it doesn't matter, but give him prasādam, other prasādam. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...halavā with powdered dahl or...

Pañca-draviḍa: Powdered dahl. They could use whole wheat flour?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Pañca-draviḍa: Whole wheat flour, they could use in?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Devotee (3): ...in right proportions. (boys shout)

Prabhupāda: What they say? What is the quarrel? (break) ...nice, South Indian. Oh, very nice. How many seats are there?

Devotee (4): Say about four(?) seats. Prabhupāda, four devotees went from Hyderabad, going through Orissa and coming to Māyāpur for the festival.

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Unless you have complete, I mean, God consciousness, paraṁ dṛṣṭvā, till then, the rasa does not go, the very sting of your indriyas. So it becomes sort of a vicious circle, sir, and it becomes very difficult to vacate from that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate (CC Madhya 19.170).

Dr. Patel: By bhakti you can break.

Prabhupāda: Bhakti means when you engage all your senses in the service of Hṛṣīkeśa. That is bhakti. But that we cannot. We say, "Oh, I have got this duty, I have got that duty," not cent percent engaged.

Dr. Patel: Ananya-bhakti.

Prabhupāda: Ananya, that is wanted. When cent percent engaged, that is ananya. Bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. If one takes to that position, ananya-bhāk, then even there is some mistake, even there is some fault, still, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30)—he becomes sādhu, immediately. (break)

Dr. Patel: ...for God, for Kṛṣṇa, is bhakti.

Prabhupāda: Yes, under the superior direction, not whimsically.

Morning Walk -- April 16, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Anyone. We don't say Aryan or Indian, but there is a great scientist who has arranged like that.

Dr. Patel: The greatest scientist is Kṛṣṇa, God. You call Him by any other name but He is personally present, as He says.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Even the modern scientists do not learn everything by laboratory. They take knowledge from their predecessor.

Dr. Patel: But intuition does come. The topmost scientists.... The intuition, then they work on that way.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They don't become ignorant by themselves. They have lots of help.

Dr. Patel: What is ignorance and what is knowledge is very difficult to say. It is a relative terminology.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Jñānaṁ jñeyaṁ jñāna-gamyam.

Dr. Patel: That's right so far as the spiritual knowledge is concerned, but in the relative knowledge, after all...

Prabhupāda: Relative knowledge is also...

Dr. Patel: Aparā-vidyā, what is real knowledge, we don't know.

Prabhupāda: No? Why not?

Dr. Patel: Because every time we change our opinion...

Prabhupāda: We know from Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: Now, sir, that is what I said. You are always talking about parā-vidyā.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Dr. Patel: We are scientist of aparā-vidyā.

Morning Walk -- April 16, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He's no more go-khara.

Dr. Patel: Really? (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Because go-kharas, they cannot understand their mistake. And as soon as one admits that he's mistaken, then he's human being.

Dr. Patel: But this ātma-dhī in this kuṇape tri-dhātuke is very difficult to knock off and establish it in...

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Dr. Patel: This ātma-dhī and kuṇape tri-dhātuke is very difficult to take out, extremely difficult.

Prabhupāda: No, if you analyze, you can take it.

Dr. Patel: That is done by Sāṅkhya philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Morning Walk -- April 16, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Kiṁ pariśiṣyate... (Sanskrit)

Prabhupāda: Neti neti. "This not soul, this is not soul, this is not soul." Then still, there is the living force. Avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. Immediately come to the conclusion. But they have analytical laboratory, but they have no brain how to analyze. They are thinking that because the blood has become white, therefore life has been lost. So is it very difficult to make the secretion within the body red?

Dr. Patel: No.

Prabhupāda: You can make it red.

Dr. Patel: Now, sir, they think the body does not extinct with the stoppage of the heart, but it gets extinct after complete disorganization of the brain or what we call...

Prabhupāda: That means mūḍha. You are mūḍha, again mūḍha. Double mūḍha. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: Both, they come to mūḍha. Now rascal become...

Prabhupāda: Means when he becomes double mūḍha he becomes rascal. (laughter) Single mūḍha is tolerable, and double mūḍha means mūḍha. Double M.A. Double M.A. means double rascal.

Dr. Patel: Up to this, sir, heart transplant, I mean, surgery...

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: At least all my contemporaries have gone away. (laughter) All my young friends and childhood friends, there are no more existing, my relatives. And.... So I am moving still all over the world.

Carol Jarvis: Can you see an age that you could live until? Could you predict how long you might live?

Prabhupāda: No, if.... You see, this body is so made that it must end, but before ending, you must be competently Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then, next life, you become permanent in life, in knowledge, in blissfulness. That is required.

Carol Jarvis: Many people find it very difficult to reconcile the spiritual way of life in the Kṛṣṇa movement with the great financial resources the movement also has. Why do you need any great financial...?

Prabhupāda: It doesn't.... The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement does not depend on any material condition, any material condition.

Carol Jarvis: But you make a lot of money out of the sales of your books, etc.; there is begging in the street each day.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But there are many beggars. They do not get money. We get money. We are not beggars. We are giving books, knowledge. Do you think we are beggars?

Carol Jarvis: If I could use the example, perhaps, of your temple, which has a lot of very rich material things in it. I wonder what significance that plays in your spiritual life.

Prabhupāda: So what do you mean by spiritual and material? Do you know the distinction? Then I'll show you spiritual. And do you know?

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Can you challenge? "Do this first. What is your science? This is rascal science. You give up the major problem; you are making research how many atoms are working. What you will do by understanding atoms are going?"

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Because it's very difficult to...

Prabhupāda: Difficult? Then you are not scientist. You cannot touch the difficult problem. Childish thing, you are bluffing children, that's all. You have no power to tackle the difficulties. You cannot give life to the dead body.

Hari-śauri: (break) But if we don't make the research, then how will we ever solve these problems?

Prabhupāda: Then you are.... As soon as you say "making research," then you are not perfect. Don't say that you are scientist. You are student. Don't say that you are scientist. And you are declaring, "There is no authority, nothing." Why do you speak all this nonsense? Because you are not scientist. You are making research. That's all right. When you complete your research—you come to the conclusion—then call yourself as scientist. Why, as a student, neophyte, you are claiming as "scientist"? Why misleading people? You do not know anything, how things are going on, and you are claiming you are scientist. Our point is, "Don't do this, misleading propaganda. You are not scientist. We protest against this false propaganda. Why you are making.... You do not know anything. You cannot solve any problem, major problem, so why you are claiming scientist? Stop this as a gentleman." (break) And there is the soul within the body, and when the soul is gone, transferred to another body, it is dead. Dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). One who is actually scientist, he is not surprised. He knows the soul has transferred to another body. That's all. That is scientist. (break) ...real scientist, not a rascal like you. We don't give.... (break) You cannot act. We accept Kṛṣṇa as scientist because He explains. You cannot explain. How we can accept you as scientist? You are rascal. Up till now, nobody was able to explain—simply vague. How we can accept these vague explanation as scientist? And daily changing, every year new theories. And I have to accept you scientist? Kṛṣṇa said tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13) five thousand years ago. It was known very well, and it is going on. That is science. You cannot give any solution, you are changing your ideas and theories every year, and we have to accept you as scientist? (break) ...speaking something, and I have to accept him as scientist? Madman, crazy fellow, saying something today, saying something other next day.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They cannot cleanse nowadays?

Hari-śauri: They made a movie called "2001," and in that they had shots of men on different planets. It looked just like the moon shots. It was very..., just the same.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, it is very difficult to convince the people that they have not gone to the moon. I mean, that's a good logic, but they'll think that's very childish for us to say "Sunday first, Monday."

Prabhupāda: Well, let them remain as child.

Candanācārya: Śrīla Prabhupāda once said that if the moon is dirt and dust, how is it that it reflects the light of the sun so much that it lights up the whole planet?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The common sense. They have lost their common sense.

Candanācārya: It's so shiny that it lights up the whole earth planet at night.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Candanācārya: How can dirt reflect light like that?

Prabhupāda: That was my first question.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think that we should write a, we should publish a little book on this, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: If you can.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: What you can do? If I take your blood, what you can do? You'll die, that's all. Hm.

Hṛdayānanda:

na tad bhāsayate sūryo

na śaśāṅko na pāvakaḥ

yad gatvā na nivartante

tad dhāma paramaṁ mama

(BG 15.6)

"That abode of Mine is not illumined by the sun or moon, nor by electricity. One who reaches it never returns to this material world." Purport? "The spiritual world, the abode of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, which is known as Kṛṣṇaloka, Goloka Vṛndāvana, is described here. In the spiritual sky there is no need of sunshine, moonshine, fire or electricity, because all the planets are self-luminous. We have only one planet in this universe, the sun, which is self-luminous, but all the planets in the spiritual sky are self-luminous. The shining effulgence of all those planets, called Vaikuṇṭhas, constitutes the shining sky known as the brahma-jyotir. Actually, the effulgence is emanating from the planet of Kṛṣṇa, Goloka Vṛndāvana. Part of that shining effulgence is covered by the mahat-tattva, the material world. Other than this, the major portion of that shining sky is full of spiritual planets, which are called Vaikuṇṭhas, the chief of which is Goloka Vṛndāvana. As long as a living entity is in this dark material world, he is in conditional life, but as soon as he reaches the spiritual sky, by cutting through the false, perverted tree of this material world, he becomes liberated. Then there is no chance of his coming back here. In his conditional life, the living entity considers himself to be the lord of this material world, but in his liberated state he enters into the spiritual kingdom and becomes the associate of the Supreme Lord. There he enjoys eternal bliss, eternal life, and full knowledge. One should be captivated by this information. He should desire to transfer himself to that eternal world and extricate himself from this false reflection of reality. For one who is too much attached to this material world, it is very difficult to cut that attachment, but if he takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is a chance of gradually becoming detached.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Hari-śauri: Oh, I've got a handkerchief here, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Viṣṇor ārādhanaṁ param.... (japa) (break) ...philosophy is very, very difficult, undoubtedly. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). Therefore I wrote that poetry, that "How they'll understand?"

Kīrtanānanda: Does that mean difficult to understand or difficult to practice?

Prabhupāda: It is very difficult to.... Sarva-dharmān—everything to give up, except Kṛṣṇa. It is very difficult. Sarva-dharmān. They are proud if they are little rich. And America is very proud. They are trying to accumulate money, and we are trying.... We say, "Give up this nonsense." Is it very easy thing, that "For Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement we shall give up everything, our attempt to earn money"? Nobody will accept it. "Our industry, our trade, our opulence—everything we shall leave?" But the meaning is that. Yes. Who will take it? Jñānīs, yogis, the same thing—"Oh, I am so.... I am great yogi. So many people considers me that I am God, and I shall give up this profession?" Is it possible? Who will do it? Caitanya-caritāmṛta there is a verse, eta saba chāḍi' āra varṇāśrama-dharma, akiñcana hañā...(?) That's it. Varṇāśrama, even varṇāśrama-dharma one has to give up. (japa—break) ...department asked me, "Swamiji, how long you want to stay here?" (laughs) I said.... I thought that "I have got this sponsoring one month, maybe another month. So two months." I thought, "Two months is a very long duration, because I'll not be able to do anything. As soon as I will put my program, they will be: 'Go away, please.' " I was under this impression. "Let me try." That is the subject matter of the poetry, that "I have no hope. Who will accept this, especially in this country, so much engrossed in materialistic way of life? And I shall say, 'Give up everything.' Who will take it?"

Kīrtanānanda: But they have taken.

Interview with Jackie Vaughn (Black Congressman) -- July 12, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Exactly, yes.

Jackie Vaughn: Each year we say, "This year is worse than any year in the history."

Prabhupāda: See, this is the experienced government officer's statement. Therefore the word is used, duratyayā. What is the meaning of duratyayā?

Hari-śauri: Very difficult to overcome.

Jackie Vaughn: I submit I contribute to that delinquency. I help them, every day, trying to find answers, always of a temporary nature.

Prabhupāda: So you kindly give little attention to this movement. It will solve all the problems. You have read some of our books? No.

Jackie Vaughn: Yes.

Prabhupāda: We have all answers to the problems in the Bhagavad-gītā, but who is hearing us? The problems and the solutions, they are all mentioned. They are given very nicely. But we do not take it. We create our own solution, imperfect solution.

Jackie Vaughn: I'm struggling.

Garden Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: No. It is all right. You sit down. It is fine, you can sit. No, no.

Hari-śauri: Sit over this side.

Jayādvaita: "The sons of Dhṛtarāṣṭra, whom if we killed we should not care to live, are now standing before us on this battlefield." Arjuna did not know whether he should fight and risk unnecessary violence, although fighting is the duty of the kṣatriyas, or whether he should refrain and live by begging. If he did not conquer the enemy, begging would be his only means of subsistence. Nor was there certainty of victory, because either side might emerge victorious. Even if victory awaited them (and their cause was justified), still, if the sons of Dhṛtarāṣṭra died in battle, it would be very difficult to live in their absence. Under the circumstances, that would be another kind of defeat for them. All these considerations by Arjuna definitely prove that he was not only a great devotee of the Lord but that he was also highly enlightened and had complete control over his mind and senses. His desire to live by begging, although he was born in the royal household, is another sign of detachment. He was truly virtuous, as these qualities, combined with his faith in the words of instruction of Śrī Kṛṣṇa (his spiritual master), indicate. It is concluded that Arjuna was quite fit for liberation. Unless the senses are controlled, there is no chance of elevation to the platform of knowledge, and without knowledge and devotion there is no chance of liberation. Arjuna was competent in all these attributes, over and above his enormous attributes in his material relationships.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Read the purport.

Scheverman: In fact, we define sin as that which separates us from the friendship of God.

Rakṣaṇa: So that means following God's instructions, such as "Thou shalt not kill," right?

Jayādvaita: This is the purport. "Those eligible for elevation to the transcendental position are mentioned in this verse. For those who are sinful, atheistic, foolish and deceitful, it is very difficult to transcend the duality of desire and hate. Only those who have passed their lives in practicing the regulative principles of religion, who have acted piously and have conquered sinful reactions can accept devotional service and gradually rise to the pure knowledge of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Then, gradually, they can meditate in trance on the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the process of being situated on the spiritual platform. This elevation is possible in Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the association of pure devotees who can deliver one from delusion. It is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that if one actually wants to be liberated, he must render service to the devotees; but one who associates with materialistic people is on the path leading to the darkest region of existence. All the devotees of the Lord traverse this earth just to recover the conditioned souls from their delusion. The impersonalists do not know that forgetting their constitutional position as subordinate to the Supreme Lord is the greatest violation of God's law. Unless one is reinstated in his own constitutional position, it is not possible to understand the Supreme Personality or to be fully engaged in His transcendental loving service with determination."

Scheverman: Yes, we can certainly agree with that.

Conversation in Airport and Car -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Kīrtanānanda: It is even more conducive to think of Kṛṣṇa in the winter.

Prabhupāda: So the neighbors they like it? Neighborhood men?

Kīrtanānanda: Most of them like us. There are a few that don't like us. But they are not violent. They are a little nasty.

Prabhupāda: Nasty they have been trained up to be. (Sanskrit) Once trained up nastily, it is very difficult to...

Kīrtanānanda: The state police in this local area has become very favorable to us. During that quarantine the state police had to stay here. So they even began to come to ārati. They took our books; they were reading. There's been a lot of change in some of the government. Some of the government men are now much favorable, more understanding.

Prabhupāda: Whatever was there, it was due to misunderstanding.

Kīrtanānanda: The sheriff is very favorable, the judge. That judge that came to see you last time you were here, he still keeps a picture of you in his desk.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Kīrtanānanda: When the palace is finished we will have nice ceremonies, and many of the local dignitaries will come. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...begins?

Kīrtanānanda: Moundsville is that way about five miles. We are almost to New Vrindaban now. Two miles.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Our post office is Moundsville.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Just see how forcefully they are being kept into ignorance, and we want to give knowledge, they don't, won't allow. This is government. So anyway, it is good news that our books are being read in that way. That means people are very eager, but they are being suppressed by the so-called government. What is the wrong there, that they cannot read these books publicly, because there is God? What is the wrong? When I was in Moscow airport, as soon as they found Bhagavad-gītā, they called police, the customs checking. The foolish man was kind enough, he said, "Not serious offense. Don't send him in the concentration camp." They can do. In Russia, even if you are foreigner, they can immediately send you to the concen..., without any knowledge, they don't care for your embassy or your... Such a rascal state, there is no civilized method. They send their own men, such an important man like that Kruschev. He was sent into oblivion; nobody knows where he is. Such a rascal government. Very difficult to live in. People are... Simply under terrorism the government is going on. In that sense your American government is so nice. Everyone has got the liberty. What is that nonsense government-terrorism.

Kuladri: But even in our government the President Kennedy was killed and his brother was killed.

Prabhupāda: That..., in politics, that is going on. Our Bhagavad-gītā begins on the killing ground. Battle of Kurukṣetra. Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre (BG 1.1). Kurukṣetra was a battlefield, but it is still dharma-kṣetre. Why don't you see that? Now the first word is dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). Yuyutsavaḥ means fighting. So why they have gone to the dharma-kṣetre for fighting? So killing, fighting, is not always irreligious. It is religious. Otherwise, why should go to dharma-kṣetre?

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: These questions that "I believe," "I don't believe," you are rascal, what is the meaning of your believe or not believing? You are, after all, a rascal. Just like a child will say something, "I don't believe." The mother will say "You are rascal, you must go to your room." So rascals believe or not believe, what is the meaning? Mūḍha. It is the law of nature. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The example is given that this boy will change his body. Dehāntara-prāptir. He'll become a young boy, young man. This body will not remain. What is the difficulty to understand? Yes, this body will not remain. While he came out of the womb of the mother, that was another body. But these rascals, they do not understand it. It is very difficult to deal with the rascals, that's a fact, but... Whatever they are doing is all rascaldom, that's all. And forgetting their real business. So your son, does he believe that he's going to be a young man? You believe? (laughs) Huh? What is your...

Kulaśekhara: I remember once when we were staying at John Lennon's estate, you said to me...

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Kulaśekhara: At John Lennon's estate, remember? In London. You said to me, the tractor, you said, this is the cause of all the trouble. That it took all the work from the young men and they went to the city and became entangled in the sense gratification in the cities. So I've noticed in the city there's much more passion, but living in the country is simpler.

Prabhupāda: Yes, passion, there must be. When you have got the facility, naturally we are lusty, and when we have got the facility, then we take to it.

Kulaśekhara: The country is more peaceful. It's easier to think of spiritual life.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Rūpānuga: That means to study the activity, psychology of the...

Prabhupāda: So all the qualities are working, mixed up practically. But prominently like this. Here you cannot have any quality completely of that quality. Other qualities are there, but prominently that particular... Just like demigods. They also become sometimes passionate, sometimes ignorant. So in this material world it is very difficult to find out pure modes of nature in anything. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Sometimes some quality prominent, sometimes some quality is prominent. So the best thing is to become transcendental to all these qualities. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). That is devotional service. Śuddha-sattva, completely pure goodness. That is wanted.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is not the direction that we were thinking. We were thinking that we could give some specific examples. We understand that the modes of nature are mixed, but even then... Now let's take birds. A bird like swan likes to be very clean habit, likes to live in a nice environment like lotus and clean water, but on the other hand birds like eagle, very passionate, wants to...

Prabhupāda: Crow.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Crow is rather very ignorant and wants to be very dirty, whereas...

Prabhupāda: So what you will do by such study?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: By this...

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes, the (indistinct) is a big affair, the sun is one of the important planets. Not only the sun, moon, Mars, Jupiter, everyone.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually as astronomy and (indistinct) are especially astronomy is one of the most unscientific branch of study, knowledge is concerned. It's very, very little known. The way that... The techniques that they use, are very difficult to rely on.

Prabhupāda: So their Astronomical calculation, the sun is fixed up, that is also wrong. The sun is not fixed up.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, Your Divine Grace, you wrote me a letter saying about the universe is just like an inverted tree.

Prabhupāda: Yes, ūrdhva-mūlam adhah-śākham (BG 15.1), Bhagavad-gītā.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And the tree, and the leaves, and the fruits and flowers are the planets.

Prabhupāda: Ūrdhva-mūlam, Gītā says, ūrdhva-mūlam adhah-śākham. The pole-star in the... And we see at night everything is moving. As a bunch it is moving.

Hari-śauri: Does that means all the planets are fixed in relationship to each other as well?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Just like a tree. Tree is fixed up, as a whole tree is moving.

Hari-śauri: Because we see practically that the moon also moves, across the sky. Just like the sun does. So the sun has an orbit?

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Rādhāvallabha: They were actually trying to reach God.

Bali-mardana: Yes. To reach heaven. That is how the Christians, in Christianity, explain that people speak different languages.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In Japan they never build big buildings because they know the earthquakes will come. They have maybe ten, twelve stories at the most.

Rādhāvallabha: (break) The big ones in New York, they build in such a way that it's very difficult to evacuate them in case of a fire, and this movie company did a movie of the two buildings burning up. So after that no one would move into them. They were half empty. So the city had to move all of its government offices into the buildings just to fill them. (dog barking) The Russian dogs are the largest dogs in the world.

Bali-mardana: Dogs to hunt wolves. These dogs are used to hunt wolves in Russia. (break)

Prabhupāda: (in car) ...saṅge calo, ei mātra bhikhā cāi. "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and come with us," that's all. We don't want any more. No fees. We don't say, "First of all pay so many dollars." There is no condition. "Simply chant and come here. We shall arrange for your food, we shall arrange for your shelter, everything." Still they will not come. They will go and pay fees and chant nonsense.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe we should charge, then they will become more encouraged.

Prabhupāda: No. No.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Others will be discouraged.

Room Conversation -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: They are all viṣṇu-tattva.

Indian man: In fact, I remember very vividly that in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you wrote that it was Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu who came down to bless Dhruva Mahārāja when the planetary system started trembling due to his tapasya here. Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. This is why people are questioning me continuously that "How can you call Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead and not Viṣṇu?" And I say "All are viṣṇu-tattva." But it is very difficult to explain to them the actual position of Kṛṣṇa, because only through chanting...

Prabhupāda: That is decided by Bhāgavatam, ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28), that tu, the name Kṛṣṇa, in the incarnation of God, Kṛṣṇa is also included, but this Kṛṣṇa is the origin.

Indian man:

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

(Bs. 5.1)

Prabhupāda: So we have to take the direction. So that is also explained. Even if you say, "Kṛṣṇa is Vāmana," there is nothing wrong. If you believe that Kṛṣṇa is incarnation of Viṣṇu, there is nothing wrong.

Morning Walk Around Grounds -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: This land?

Bhagavān: That is the proprietor's land on this side.

Prabhupāda: And he does not find any land to move the grapes.

Bhagavān: What was that, Śrīla Prabhupāda? He has so much land?

Devotee (1): There is a law by which it's very difficult to move grapes anywhere. So he's trying to get permission from the maire to do it. (break)

Bhagavān: ...built a big factory here to engage people who were socially misfit, and he was making all kinds of plastic toys. So when we moved in we suggested that he help manufacture Spiritual Sky. So now almost his whole factory is being used. Many young Indian boys who have come to France looking for something, they had no money. So he has employed them here. So they're working, they've brought their families.

Prabhupāda: They're established.

Bhagavān: Yes, and he's building them houses. (breaks)

Prabhupāda: I think it's unusual in Europe.

Bhagavān: It's like this every July and August, very sunny. During these months most people in Europe come to France. (break) ...storage house.

Prabhupāda: What does he manufacture?

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: No, same. But you must explain at least. I want to know how far you have understood spiritual culture as it is. That is my question.

Mr. Hamidi: Well, of course, it is very difficult to differentiate.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is difficult. Practically you do not know what is spiritual culture. That is a fact. So first of all, you must try to understand what is spiritual culture. Spiritual culture means... There are two things within our experience. Matter and spirit. So matter is this body, and spirit is the soul within the body. Without spirit, this material body has no value. That we experience every day. When a man is dead, we take it, now the body is useless, throw it away. Therefore the body is important so long the spirit soul is there. And that is spirit. And when we study that spirit soul, that is the beginning of spiritual culture. If you have no idea of what is that spirit, then there is no question of spiritual culture. With this body we cannot make any progress of spiritual culture. That is not possible. The body is matter. They're explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Antavanta ime dehā. Bring Bhagavad-gītā. Antavanta ime dehā nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ. So try to understand what is spirit, what is matter.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Dayānanda: But, Śrīla Prabhupāda, nowadays when people follow this so-called religion, they...

Prabhupāda: No, no, we are talking of religion, not so-called religion. So-called religion is finished. That is not religion.

Dayānanda: Then it is very difficult to find out what is real religion.

Prabhupāda: Why not? Why the original, any religious scripture you can see.

Dayānanda: Then they will interpret.

Prabhupāda: No, that is wrong. You cannot interpret, you cannot change by resolution. That is not.

Dayānanda: Then they must have someone to tell them. Then they must have an authority.

Prabhupāda: It is already there, just like in the Bible.

Dayānanda: A spiritual master, I mean. They must have the person.

Prabhupāda: Yes, spiritual master, yes, must be there. That is Vedic injunction. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Spiritual, that I have already explained. Spiritual master, good father, good king, good teachers, they are required. That is defect. There is no guru, there is no spiritual master, there is no nice king, nice father, whole society... (break) (in room) If you find out sand and rocks, you must also (indistinct) there was water. And from water, vegetation comes. From vegetation, other life comes. What we speak, we don't speak unscientifically. It is scientific. How this rascal says all of a sudden in the sky there is rocks? Wherefrom the rock came?

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Suppose there is little success, but in comparison to the money expended, that success is little. Just like I, in the beginning I advertised my books in the Times, New York Times. They charged me sixty-three dollars, a small space. So there was inquiry, not order, three inquiries. Not even order. I have got this experience. For me, at that time, sixty-three dollars were too much. So I did not get any response. That is my practical experience. I got three inquiries, not even order. But the Times, New York Times, they have got millions of customers and millions of readers, but I got three inquiries.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: To find those few potential devotees that are in, let us assume, in New York, big city, there were a few potential devotees, and materially speaking, it may be very difficult to find them. But when the devotee is sincere, Kṛṣṇa will give opportunity that those people will be found, even if they are one in that big city. Kṛṣṇa will arrange that they will find a pure devotee if they are sincere. So no material advertising will accomplish the task.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that it is only for the fortunate persons. But we must present. Only the fortunate will come forward. We cannot expect that everyone will come. That is not possible.

Jñānagamya: But you said to make everyone fortunate.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is by your preaching. That we have to do. We are doing that. That I have given the example, Nityānanda Prabhu, He faced rebellion, and by His power converted the Jagāi-Mādhāi. By chanting. They injured, Jagāi-Mādhāi injured, and Nityānanda Prabhu said, "Never mind you have injured Me, please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." That is not advertisement, that is personal behavior.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Harikeśa: "The first six chapters of the Gītā are meant for those who are interested in transcendental knowledge, in understanding the self, the Superself and the process of realization by jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, and discrimination of the self from matter. However, Kṛṣṇa can only be known by persons who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Other transcendentalists may achieve impersonal Brahman realization, for this is easier than understanding Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person, but at the same time He is beyond the knowledge of Brahman and Paramātmā. The yogis and jñānīs are confused in their attempts to understand Kṛṣṇa, although the greatest of the impersonalists, Śrīpāda Śaṅkarācārya, has admitted in his Gītā commentary that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But his followers do not accept Kṛṣṇa as such, for it is very difficult to know Kṛṣṇa, even though one has transcendental realization of impersonal Brahman. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the cause of..."

Prabhupāda: The subject matter itself is difficult. Therefore ordinary persons or a little advanced person cannot understand. And unless one is fully aware of Kṛṣṇa, one cannot become spiritual master. The subject matter itself is difficult. Therefore you don't find many spiritual masters. Go on.

Harikeśa: "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the cause of all causes, the primeval Lord Govinda.

Room Conversation -- August 16, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Liberated for going to hell.

Devotee: In your Kṛṣṇa book, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you've given such clear explanations along with the stories of Kṛṣṇa that it's very difficult to misinterpret, because you use such clear explanation.

Prabhupāda: No, you read all the books first of all. Then you'll be able to understand.

Yaśomatīnandana: Even theoretical understanding that Kṛṣṇa is transcendental will not help unless one...

Prabhupāda: Because Kṛṣṇa will lift, samaste, Kṛṣṇa lifted the hill. Now how you can become equal with Kṛṣṇa?

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what about if some devotees, I know they want to come to Vṛndāvana...

Prabhupāda: Every devotee, they must follow the rules and regulations, that's all.

Devotee: And engage in practical service to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Guru-mukha-padma-vākya cittete kariyā aikya āra nā kariha mane āśā **. Has he taken order from Guru Mahārāja that "I am going to jump over Rādhā-kuṇḍa"? Why does he go? Daily singing, guru-mukha-padma-vākya cittete, āra nā kariha **. Why should he desire like that?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There are some devotees who always want...

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Gargamuni: Him and Bhavānanda.

Jayapatākā: Now Bhavānanda is more famous.

Prabhupāda: He is notorious.

Jayapatākā: But now he is in the papers.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) He... You are famous; he is notorious. It is very difficult to deal with these nonsense. They are devotees and either notorious or famous. Our Godbrothers, they do not like Bhavānanda. Eh?

Jayapatākā: No, they don't like me anymore either.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? What is your fault?

Jayapatākā: They always thought, because I am not so outspoken, that "Jayapatākā, we can get him to do as we like." But ultimately I don't do anything for them either, so now they don't like me either. Bhavānanda openly was against, and I was passive. I didn't say anything. But when they came to me I also... Actually I am afraid. Mādhava Mahārāja he invited me to attend his program, some festival day.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Jayapatākā: At his Maṭha.

Prabhupāda: Ten days? Ten days.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1976, Vrndavana:

Haṁsadūta: And then they require money for medicine. I have spent so much money on medicine. Now I have stopped it. I tell them, "First you fast for three days, and if you don't get better I'll give you some money for medicine." But they are constantly running to this hospital, getting this pill and that pill. All these pills are useless. The real problem is they are just overeating. And of course when they overeat they want to sleep. Because India is hot. And when they sleep then they get dysentery. And when they get dysentery they can't engage. And in this way they run into a cycle which is very difficult to break. Only very few devotees are able to maintain themselves in India for any length of time. I see a nice strong man comes and I look at him and I see him eat and I say, "Within a week this man is going to be sick." And sure enough, he's sick. He's laying down, he's got fever, he's got dysentery, he's going to the hospital. In this way we have so many people like that.

Akṣayānanda: They become so weak that they can't work anyway.

Hari-śauri: So they just become a liability.

Haṁsadūta: I had one devotee, his name was Rad... (break) ...you know and you know. He does nothing at all. He's always sick. But at prasādam he eats more than any other man. I told him, "Prabhu, you're a doctor. You should know that if you eat so much food you can't digest, you're going to be sick." He says, "No, I'm so weak I require food. I have to, I can't get any strength." So I asked him, "At least, sit down in the temple and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." He said "I can't..."

Prabhupāda: I have seen. Some of them eat so much I am surprised.

Room Conversation -- December 7, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Then why you are keeping so many devotees here?

Mahāṁśa: The main problem now is there were three pūjārīs, and one of them is here, and he doesn't want to go back to pūjārī work, so we have to find...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Mahāṁśa: He doesn't want to go back to do pūjārī work, so there's only two pūjārīs and they were just complaining yesterday that it's very difficult to do so much Deity worship.

Prabhupāda: So why? Why he does not want to go?

Mahāṁśa: He wants to go traveling for a while.

Prabhupāda: So that cannot be. So traveling means you have asked him to...?

Haṁsadūta: No, I haven't asked him any... It's the same problem. Whenever I go somewhere there are always certain men; they want to go.

Prabhupāda: No. Nobody can go without sanction. This is sense gratification, "I want to." This is not good.

Jagadīśa: The temple right now is in lack of a full time manager. Mahāṁśa Mahārāja spends most of his time here, and I can see that the temple management is not going right.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not very nice. So do you require...? But you also do not remain here.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Sesame, yes. That is very small. So these seeds, sesame seed, is called tila. Tila lava, and they make it tāla. Instead of tila, it becomes tāla, and then big mess. Tilake tāla. The fact was tila, but they called it tāla.

Mahāṁśa: So that was happening. Then the other thing is that these people, they are very innocent people and they are very superstitious also. So when they see foreigners, they immediately become a little afraid. And there is some kind of a complex that comes on them and it makes it very difficult for the foreigners to communicate with these people. This is what I have seen happening. It is very difficult to commu... Now this is what I have experienced since last two, three days also. When Tejas was trying to get this garden around here done, but the laborers could not get the message across. They were doing something else and then the blame was coming on me. I never instructed them at all for doing anything. I never took them away from the work at all. I was amazed and I was surprised to hear that I was accused of taking away the laborers from Tejas and put them on some other work which I had no concern at all. So this is what was troubling me today when I was thinking that "How is it that there was this misunderstanding which has caused anxiety in so many devotees?" So this communication gap is going to be a problem which has to be solved. And for that...

Prabhupāda: Oh, this is the explanation of the situation? You...?

Haṁsadūta: You experienced.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So how to adjust these things now? Do it.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is also beautifully indicated. The father says personally, but you are so dull-headed you cannot understand.

Indian man: You say Lord Kṛṣṇa, but I must know what Kṛṣṇa is.

Prabhupāda: Then it is very difficult to make you understand. Everyone knows what is Kṛṣṇa?

Indian man: I don't know.

Prabhupāda: Then you should learn it, what is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is said, anyone who knows Kṛṣṇa, he is liberated. Because you do not know, you are not liberated. Otherwise, as soon as you understand Kṛṣṇa you become liberated.

Indian man: It is plain fact. I don't know.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So try to understand Kṛṣṇa from the right source. Otherwise, you will remain a rascal. That's all. That is your first business, to understand Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa is explained in so many śāstras. If I am so rascal that still I cannot understand, that is my misfortune.

Indian man: Simply misfortune.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You have to be free from mind also.

Guest (1) (Indian man): Free from mind?

Prabhupāda: Yes, mind.

Guest (1): Very difficult to control mind.

Prabhupāda: But if you want freedom, you have to do that.

Guest (1): Yes, that's true. There is no other alternative.

Guest (2) (Indian man): Freedom from mind, how would you explain it or how would you detail it? (break)

Prabhupāda: ...mind means polluted mind. We are part and parcel of God. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). Jīva is as pure as God and on account of this mind, he is suffering in this material world. You can see. You can see. Here is a living being, this tree. It is also a living being, but he's standing before me for fifty years or more than that. He cannot move an inch, and we are moving. So why this condition? He is also living being; I am also living being. I have got little freedom to move; he hasn't got. Why this difference of position? Due to the mind. So here in this material world there are 8,400,000 different forms of life. They're all due to the mental concoction. So if we want our original life as good as God, at least in quality, that is freedom of mind. And then we cease to become one of the covered living beings within this material world.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is absurd.

Guest (1): Two contradictory terms.

Prabhupāda: Therefore Arjuna was ridiculed. "What is this nonsense?" Kutas tvā kaśmalam idam: "You have come to fight. You are talking nonsense, that 'I will not fight.' " Kṛṣṇa did not approve.

Guest (1): He told... He defined "What is your dharma and what is niṣkāma akarma." So it's very difficult to define dharma, but once it is defined, there should be no difficulty.

Prabhupāda: No, dharma is there. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That is dharma. And everything is cheating. That... Because we are teaching that, that only dharma is to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, therefore we are not very much liked. They are of opinion, "Why Kṛṣṇa is God? I have got this God. I have got this, so many incarnations." This is...

Guest (2): Why do you say we are not very much liked? The movement is spreading.

Prabhupāda: Because we are fools.

Guest (2): But the movement is spreading, I am saying. I Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is spreading.

Prabhupāda: Movement will spread, undoubtedly, because it is genuine.

Guest (2): It is spreading because we are liked.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I say any religious stamp, material, there is no benefit. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). You have to give up all these designations. And bhakti, love of Godhead, or service to God, begins when you are relieved from these designations. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). When becoming God conscious, you become completely purified, then your devotional life begins. And so long you are entangled with this designation, there is no question of devotional service. Either you Hindu or Muslim or Christian, it doesn't matter. So our business is not that, that we convert a Hindu to a Christian or a Christian to a Hindu. That is not our business. They are thinking, because we dress like that, with tilaka, with māla, they think Hindu. But it's not our business to convert the Christians to become Hindus, as all other missionaries, they are doing. They are trying to increasing the number of Christian or Hindus. So our... There is no question of increasing. It is very difficult to accept.

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ

(BG 7.3)

Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not so easy. Out of millions and millions of persons, one becomes perfect. And out of millions of perfect, one may understand Kṛṣṇa. That is the version of Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not so easy that everyone, each one will become Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is very difficult. But by the grace of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, by this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, this is helping. Otherwise, it is very difficult task. Very difficult.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Letter to Russian -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So you do that. Get the help of composition and monotype.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. This is the biggest... The Teachings of Lord Caitanya I gave for composing four months ago, and still they're going so slow.

Prabhupāda: The hand set-up is not...?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, but in Delhi I could not find any. The only one in Delhi who has mono is Times of India, and it's very difficult to get it done. So I had no alternative.

Prabhupāda: In Calcutta there are many.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I found out that in Allahabad there are a lot for Hindi. But then we had to have somebody over there.

Prabhupāda: Allahabad.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, one devotee or someone who will supervise that. I suspect Bombay will be much more expensive, but I want to check. Tomorrow I'll check it.

Prabhupāda: Allahabad, we are going.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. But right now is Kumbhamela in Allahabad, everything's going to be in so much rush, it's going to be hard to do any business.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) It is great, fortunate that you are trying to understand. So if you try to understand this philosophy, you understand it is not the so-called religion, it is a culture for benefit of the whole human society, para-upakāra. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, para-upakāra. Because people are in the darkness of knowledge, to enlighten them, to come to the light, that is Vedic injunction, tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ. Do not remain in darkness, come to the light. So our attempt is to bring these people who are kept in different types of, or different standards of darkness, to bring them to light. This is our position. It is not sectarian. Not for the Hindus, not for the Indians, but it is meant for the whole human society. Kṛṣṇa never said that He's Hindu or He's Indian. He says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ tāsāṁ mahad yonir brahma ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). He never says that "I am for the Hindu or for the Indians." Sarva-yoniṣu. There are 8,400,000 species of different types of life. That is the fact, bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). Wherefrom the life is coming? These rascals, they do not understand what is actual science, how things are going on, how the laws of nature is working. Simply superficially, "We have got some ideas." Fundamentally they have no knowledge. So we are trying to enlighten them with our teeny effort. Although it is single-handed, still it is genuine. If you kindly try to understand the whole philosophy—the first thing is, andhā yathāndair upanīyamānā, the whole world is now being conducted by blind leaders. And they're keeping people in darkness because they are themselves in darkness. They do not know what is light. So they do not know what is the object of life, what is the destination of life. Simply in blind faith they have created so many isms. It is simply misleading. It is little difficult to understand that we are simply leading others... That's a fact, that's a fact. If you impersonally try to understand this philosophy that every man is kept in the darkness of a different stamp, different ism. That is the first instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptir, after death you have to change your body. Then where is your ism? Whole ism changed. That they do not understand. They're so much in darkness, mūḍha. "Today I am very great national leader, my country, my..." So on, so on. And tomorrow by the laws of nature if I become a dog in Europe, then where is my nationalism? And it is possible. What is called? Because you are under nature's law, you are not independent. Therefore they have given up this idea that there is life after death. This is their first ignorance. Everyone is thinking that this life is everything for twenty years or thirty years or hundred years-eat, drink, be merry, enjoy then everything is finished. The whole Russian people, they think like that. Not whole, I don't, I cannot say but the learned, their learned professors, they think like that. The life is ended after this body. So our people also, our these politicians, they also think like that. So this is the platform of ignorance. And people are so much (indistinct), born into this ignorance. It is very, very difficult to raise them from this ignorance.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No. More than that.

Dr. Patel: It will be very, very cold. It will be very, very... You have to live in a tent... After all, tent is not really... Especially in March, January, cold is extreme. It is as cold as New York but more than that.

Prabhupāda: I have got many invitations from friends. I can live in the home, house. That depends on my... Either in the tent or a mile, two miles away.

Dr. Patel: When you go out after leaving some friend's house, it will be very difficult to come out because of the cold. It will be as big as Bombay practically, this Kumbhamela, at least twenty-five lakhs or thirty lakhs. It will be as big as cold. (?)

Prabhupāda: No, space is also.

Dr. Patel: I'll tell one of the friends to get me some water on that day. I'll take bath here. (laughs) I had gone to Allahabad once only.

Prabhupāda: Only?

Dr. Patel: We have not had the chance to go there. Delhi also. I've never gone to the Delhi also. Therefore it was calling me. I have seen Delhi in 1939. After that, I have never gone.

Prabhupāda: My family life was in Allahabad, 1923 to 1936 continually. I used to come to Bombay from Allahabad for business. And I was staying in that hotel, Empire Hindu Hotel. Yes, very nice. At that time it was very nice.

Dr. Patel: That is the hotel where Lokamane(?) Tilak died. He was staying there.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is going on...

Indian (1): ...through his karma.

Prabhupāda: ...that they are karmīs, they are working to go to the heavenly planet. And what he'll do? What he will benefit?

Indian (1): Ārto jijñāsur arthārthī jñānī ca bharatarṣabha. In lakhs and lakhs, people there are one..., it is very difficult to find a jñānī.

Prabhupāda: No, jñānī... One can become jñānī in a moment, provided he wants. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). So jñānavān māṁ prapadyate. So if one surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, he's jñānavān. Otherwise he's a rascal. So if you don't teach how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then he remains a rascal. That's all.

Indian (1): It is our duty to teach, to educate the people.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is education, that "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Otherwise he's not education.

Indian (1): To guide them how to surrender the Almighty. That is our duty.

Prabhupāda: But he does not know what is Almighty. And Almighty is canvassing, and people are refusing. Almighty says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). So here is Almighty, but who is teaching that "Here is Almighty. Surrender to Him"?

Indian (1): That is asuri sampatti.

Prabhupāda: This is going on.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) Yes. He immediately offered, "I have got this seven dollars. You take it." He was astrologer. He said, "No, you have got eight dollars. But I'll not take your money." "No, no, you take, sir. You'll not take—somebody will take. I'll give you. Kindly help me." And he chastised his servant, "Why you have taken these dangerous things? So you have got still one dollar. You go back. You don't come with me. And eight dollars I have given him. I'll be free." He thought that "Master is by sentiment leaving home and he is so opulent. Let me go with him and keep some money in case of emergency." Of course, that is... From his part it was right, but he thought that "Without this money, to remain, is more safe than to feel safety by keeping money." Because if the government is plunderer, then there is no other. This time is coming. The government will plunder in the name of taxation, and there will be no rainfall, scarcity of food. So everyone will feel very difficult to maintain the family. They'll leave voluntarily and go away. This is foretold.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This milk is not good, eh? Even for you they cheat. I told him specially, "It's for Guruji. Please don't cheat."

Prabhupāda: Who cares for Guruji? (laughs) Who cares for Guruji? They think that "Guruji is cheating you—I am cheating your Guruji. What is the wrong?" They think Guruji means cheater. Nowadays, Guruji means cheater. "So you are cheated by your Guruji, so let me cheat your Guruji." That's all. Sate satāṁ samācaret. If one is sat, cunning, you should be also cunning, more cunning. This is Cāṇakya Paṇḍita's advice, policy. Sate satāṁ samācaret. Very miserable condition in this age. Therefore the sane man should utilize the little opportunity of human life in the cent percent Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the proper utilization of life. Try to serve Kṛṣṇa cent percent. Bas. That is proper utilization. The so-called philanthropy, altruism, humanitarianism, this ism, that.... Bogus.... Not bogus-useless. It will not help. They are pious activities. So, Caitanya-caritāmṛta says, pious or impious, both of them are impediments to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So we are not interested with pious activities or impious even.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Our business is sai vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayoḥ (SB 9.4.18). First of all is mentality. Man-manā mad-bhakto. Mental cure, then physically devotee. "Always think of Me." This is the cure, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. Beginning: always think of Kṛṣṇa. This is the treatment. It is proved. Mentally he'll be cured. And then physically after. Nice (indistinct). They do not know how things are happening. (japa) Thinking, feeling, willing. First of all thinking, then feeling, then willing, then working. (break) ...and spending for military strength. They are not performing yajña, so how there will be rainfall? There will be warfare, devastation. Most rubbish civilization, modern misleading, soul-killing. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Very difficult to live with them. Still, we have to do this Kṛṣṇa's business. So we have to do our business. Let the dogs bark on. We don't care for it. If we remain sincere to Kṛṣṇa, that is our victory, not the result. Karmaṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu kadācana. We have to act according to direction of Kṛṣṇa, that much. We want to see good result. Even there is no good result, we don't mind. We must be sincere to Kṛṣṇa that "We have done our best." That's all. Without cheating Kṛṣṇa. That is our duty. As servant, we shall not cheat the master. Result, no result—that depends on Kṛṣṇa. We should not be sorry if there is not result. Never mind. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that "I have brought to Benares hari-nāma, but here they are full of Māyāvādīs. So if it is not sold, all right, I shall take it back." Caitanya Mahāprabhu said. So we should not be anxious whether the things are sold or not. But we must do our best canvassing work: "Please take it." That is our duty. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa... (break)

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: ...have to increase. Otherwise these people will starve.

Gargamuni: And thousands of people live off the welfare checks.

Rāmeśvara: There is big scandals in America about cheating on the welfare roles to get free money from the government.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: That's a big scandal in America, very difficult to control because there are so many people involved.

Hari-śauri: I remember in England that was a big thing too, the welfare state. So many people, they're not working, and they're getting more money from the government by not working than they would by going to work. So they...

Gargamuni: Years ago there was a scandal in the States, and in the Midwest they found a family who was receiving a total of thirty thousand dollars a year in welfare checks.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Rāmeśvara: This problem practically ruined Australia's economy. Five years ago Australia was a very wealthy country, and then they elected a new government, socialist government, and they began increasing all sorts of benefits, pensions, welfare benefits. And millions of people... Not millions, but many working people stopped working because it was easier just to get the free money. In this way...

Prabhupāda: So you should be very careful. Because you are giving free prasādam, similarly all lazy fellow may not come and take free prasāda. Therefore engagement must be there. Otherwise this lazy fellow will come, sleep and take prasāda.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Somebody asked him?

Rāmeśvara: That's a question I meant to ask, because that question will start coming up in America. They will say, "Kṛṣṇa is an ordinary man. He was killed by some hunter."

Prabhupāda: So what do you answer?

Rāmeśvara: We haven't been asked yet. The answer is very difficult to explain to them.

Prabhupāda: Yesterday I was answering. You were not present?

Rāmeśvara: No. (aside:) Were you here?

Hari-śauri: No. It was during darśana.

Prabhupāda: Hm. What did I answer?

Hari-śauri: I wasn't here.

Prabhupāda: How do you answer?

Gargamuni: Well, first we have to explain that Kṛṣṇa has a transcendental body. If they don't understand that, then how can we explain Kṛṣṇa's disappearance?

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: "You first of all give so much blood. So much give me, and then..."

Gurukṛpā: Yes. And charge you fifty dollars.

Prabhupāda: Regular business. It is very difficult to consult with a doctor.

Gurukṛpā: And I saw the dentist. He tried to ruin one of my tooth so he could do work on that also and make more money. He tried to damage the teeth.

Prabhupāda: Money is the only aim. And they will talk all nonsense and make experiment, especially in the Western countries. Here also they have got now money-making sight. Lawyers also. Any... I have seen in our relatives, big, big rich men. The brothers may sit down and make some... My father-in-law did that. They sat down, and they were two brothers, and divided his property and got two days. But those who are rascals, they go to lawyer and continually meeting—his man, his man. In this way the whole property is sold. And they get out with this. That's all. I have seen so many cases. Then the property division means there is nothing to divide. Everything is sold, and the money was taken by the lawyers as their fees. I have seen so many cases. These real estate men? Real estate? They also. So many times they complicated our men. You know that?

Satsvarūpa: The first time?

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No, no, that...

Guest (1): He can do japa

Prabhupāda: No, no. It doesn't matter. If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa always, the medicine is there already. Then it will rectify you automatically. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Where is the loss? It is open for everyone. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva (CC Adi 17.21). Especially in this age it is very difficult to... But if you take to this harer nāma, then gradually ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Everything will be cleansed within your heart and you'll understand. You take to this immediately. Somebody is giving prasāda?

Satsvarūpa: There's is regular distribution.

Prabhupāda: Go and take prasāda. Jaya. Go and...

Satsvarūpa: Yes, everyone is taking

Prabhupāda: Go and take prasāda. Prasāde sarva-duḥkhānāṁ hānir asyopajāyate. Our propaganda is "Please come here, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take prasāda." That's all. Is that very difficult task?

Guest (3) (Indian man): Whether the scriptures have real potency?

Prabhupāda: Yes. All scripture has got. And we are having our members' building and library, you can come and read. We are trying to give you all facility. You should take it and be perfect.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: They may be rascal. Why you should become rascal? There it is written, the document. They may be rascals, but why you become rascal, following the rascals? You are following not Kṛṣṇa. You are following another rascal. Why? That is your misfortune. Kṛṣṇa says, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). He says. You do not take Kṛṣṇa, you take another rascal. Then how you can be helped? Kṛṣṇa says, the speaker of Bhagavad-gītā, that "I told him," and you do not take it. You take another rascal. Then who will guide you? You remain rascal. What can be done? Śaṅkarācārya may be seventeen hundred years. Buddha is two hundred and fifty. And Bhagavad-gītā, five thousand years ago, this Bhagavad-gītā... And before that, puruṣa, forty millions of years ago... If you don't believe Bhagavad-gītā, then don't talk of Bhagavad-gītā. You talk of Śaṅkarācārya, Sunātha,(?) this... That is another thing. But if you talk of Bhagavad-gītā, it is stated there. People have misguided people in such a way that we are finding very difficult to reform them. But things are there. We have no difficulty. You do not accept—all right, you do your own business; let me do my business. We cannot make any compromise because some rascal has said something. That is not possible. We have to follow Kṛṣṇa. That's all. This is Kṛṣṇa conscious. What is the wrong there if you strictly follow Kṛṣṇa? Mr. Pandiya, what is the wrong there?

Mr. Pandiya: At the present days, sir, people do not go through either Gītā or Bhāgavata. They read some commentator. Then they get some doubt.

Prabhupāda: So if they willfully become misled, then who can check it?

Room Conversation -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: They have got nice family?

Pṛthu-putra: Oh, yes. They have nice family, and they have many children. And the man is working, and the woman stay home and prepare food, taking care...

Prabhupāda: That is Indian culture.

Pṛthu-putra: Yes, it's exactly like in India. But their family attachment is so strong that it is..., it will be very difficult to have devotees out of them.

Prabhupāda: No, no, why you should dissuade them from family life? That is not our...

Pṛthu-putra: No, I'm not doing that. I know.

Prabhupāda: Let them remain, family life, but understand what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That's all. We never condemn family life. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa anywhere. That's all.

Pṛthu-putra: Oh, yes. But that will be very difficult for them to become devotee. Instead, they went to the Western countries and become devotees there. But otherwise, in their own country will be very difficult for them.

Prabhupāda: Let us invite them, whole family. Let them come, take prasāda, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Pṛthu-putra: Yes. That I did.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Morning Walk -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Tantra-yoga means they will have sex, and he will be able not to discharge. That is tantra-yoga. The woman likes a man who does not easily discharge. This is tantra-yoga. So he is teaching that art or science. They will prove their tantric success that while sex there is no discharge.

Satsvarūpa: I spoke to one of them and said that for spiritual life you had to refrain from sex, and he said, "No. If you do this enough, then you will not have any more desire." Otherwise if you just refrain, that is not as thorough.

Prabhupāda: So many things going on. Very difficult to lead spiritual life.

sandarśanaṁ viṣayiṇām atha yoṣitāṁ ca

hā hanta hanta viṣa-bhakṣaṇato 'py asādhu

(CC Madhya 11.8)

Actually one who is serious going back to home, back to Godhead—for such person, one should be niṣkiñcana, no connection with these material woman and money. Niṣkiñcanasya. (break) But I am not collecting money for sense gratification. For preaching work. Kṛṣṇa-sambandhe... Kṛṣṇa sabaya yāhā haya anukula, viṣaya boliyā tāhā haya phul.(?) The anything which is favorable to my preaching work, that is not viṣaya. Ta phul.(?) Then that is mistake. Why the air is misty? That... (break) Similarly, you can kill. You have to see it, what for they are killing. Stalin was killing for his own sense gratification. He wanted to maintain himself in the position, and anyone going against him, he would kill. That was not for the citizens' benefit. For his own benefit. Therefore he's a criminal. Just like soldier is killing hundreds of thousands of other soldiers. He is being awarded, "Oh, you are brave." And as soon as he kills one man for his own—he is hanged. So we have to see what is the cause that Arjuna fought for Kṛṣṇa, he became a devotee. Bhakto 'si priyo 'si (BG 4.3). Very dear friend. What is the business? To kill. There are different.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ (SB 1.2.19). When one is situated as a devotee, then this base quality, rajas-tamaḥ, ignorance and passion, the symptoms: kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye. Kāma, lusty desires, and greediness. Sex desire, strong sex desire or satisfy the senses, eating too much, lobha, greediness—these things go. Nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā bhagavaty uttama... When one is situated in devotional service, tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ. These are rajas-tamo... These are the symptoms of rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ. Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye, ceta etair anāviddham (SB 1.2.19). The mind is no more disturbed with all these things. Sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati. Then he is to be understood... He's in the sattva-guṇa. That is perfect brahminical life. Then he'll be pleased. Prasīdati. In this way, gradual step... So it is very difficult to bring, introduce varṇāśrama, but at least there must be some idea. Just like in the university, nobody is going to study higher mathematics, higher English literature. Nobody goes even in your country. The classes are almost vacant. But still, the government does not close it. The expenditure is high, but there is no student, no income. Therefore the professors coming to us, "Give us some student." You know that?

Satsvarūpa: Religion professors.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, higher studies...

Satsvarūpa: Yes. "Send us some of your men."

Prabhupāda: Nobody is interested with higher study. They want some technological understanding so that they can earn money. That's all. This is only interest.

Satsvarūpa: In our ISKCON, one becomes a brāhmaṇa after a year. It's not very hard. Everyone becomes a brāhmaṇa.

Prabhupāda: That is due to chanting. That lift very easily.

Evening Darsana -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is called mora mera gale.(?) To call a man by ill names, the last word is "You die."

Pañcadraviḍa: But it is not just us. The government threw out the Pentacostals, the jehovah's Witnesses, the Children of God, Guru Maharaj-ji's group, us. It's a very fascist government and very pro-Catholic. Now also we have heard that they have passed one law that nobody in the country is allowed to keep a beard. And the Jews, they all keep beards there because they're very orthodox Jews. Part of their religion, they don't cut the hair. So now no keeping beards, that's also even against the Jews. There are several million Jews. The government is very difficult to work with. When we went to the Ministry to ask them about this, they said they could not do nothing. The Ministry already, some people there were talking, "No, this government is very destructive. The next government will be more constructive. You try when the next government comes." So this is the way they talk down there. They change governments very often.

Brahmānanda: There's also a lot of German influence there. When the Nazis left Nazi Germany they all went to Argentina.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Hṛdayānanda: Now every day they are killing so many people. It's become a very dangerous place. In the streets every day they are shooting so many people.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's Jayatīrtha.

Pañcadraviḍa: Actually, though, we are learning something. We have to work with these kind of people more and more in different countries.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is very fine, but there is no Bhāgavata?

Evening Darsana -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, unless you get land, how you can do?

Jayatīrtha: Well, we thought some things, have some drawings we'd showing...

Prabhupāda: But so far I know, it is very difficult to get vacant land.

Jayatīrtha: Yes. Depends on how close to the center you are. We'll probably have to get a piece of property that has an old warehouse or something on it and demolish it. There's no... Nothing is vacant, but a lot of the buildings are so old that no one wants to use them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That you can get. There are many old houses. I do not remember what is that neighborhood. That is forlorn practically.

Jayatīrtha: Hm. There are many places like that. So we have to find a place like that, about three quarters of an acre, half an acre to three quarters of an acre, and build a building, taller building, with the temple and auditorium and museum and hotel rooms.

Prabhupāda: Like New York. Like New York?

Jayatīrtha: Not quite as big as New York. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: That house is very good, our New York temple.

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: But people are interested with the dress only. That is foolishness. That is foolishness. Suppose you are driving one car. You are driving one car, and the car is also important, but you are not the car. But if you think that you are car, then you are a foolish. You have to take care of the car so far because it is plying, it is giving you service. You must keep in order very cleanse. That's very nice. But if you simply absorb in the service of the car, you don't take care of yourself.

Guest (2): The point is for ordinary men it is very difficult to conceive of a naked soul.

Prabhupāda: So ordinary man is foolish. Learned man is intelligent

Guest (2): But it is very difficult to think of a naked soul.

Prabhupāda: Naked, there is no question of... Naked soul is there, but you have no eyes to see it. Naked soul is there, but it is so small you cannot see it. The dimension of the naked soul is given in the śāstra. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca (CC Madhya 19.140). One ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. So it is not possible to see by your these present eyes. But there is. There is no doubt about it.

Indian man: How is it opened, the eyes?

Room Conversation First Day in Juhu Quarters -- March 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So to finish the whole thing, how long it will take?

Saurabha: For the guesthouse?

Prabhupāda: All temple.

Saurabha: Well, everything that will be marble, I can't say. Marble is very difficult, because people that are available in India, they are from Makrana, Muhammadan people, and they are very difficult to work with. They don't always keep up, they don't always do what they promise. But otherwise, by July, practically, the building should be ready.

Prabhupāda: There is no way to engage them to work properly?

Saurabha: Yes. At the moment I have... It is going nicely. I have been with people in Makrana and about forty people here which is very... I don't think there are many projects in India where they have so many. But there are always things happening. Political sometimes. Sometimes they ask a lot of money. Because they are all related. They are all family members. Like one big family. So if something happens and they are not pleased with it, then they, everyone...

Prabhupāda: So make arrangement so that they are not displeased.

Saurabha: Yes, I am very careful, and at the moment it is going very nicely.

Prabhupāda: So keep that standard. Money scarcity we shall not allow. We shall put.

Saurabha: I pay exact what they are working for.

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. The atheists, when they are convinced, they become first-class theist. One of my teachers used to say that anyone who is not easily convinced, he does not forget easily also. And one who easily understands, he easily forgets. So the Russians, they are strong. You cannot convince them by bogus dogmatic theories.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's very true. Scientists, once they are convinced, it is also very difficult to...

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is not easily convinced, then easily he does not forget.

Dr. Sharma: I've always said, teach the Russians that we have our own brand of communism or socialism.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I have already explained.

Dr. Sharma: Yāvad... (Sanskrit) The amount of material you need to fill your belly, that is your own. You can call only that much you own. If you think you own something more, you are a thief and you should be punished. That's what Bhāgavata says. This is the highest kind of socialism one can...

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Our local problem... Now, what about the municipality?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that's there.

Prabhupāda: Write. Why don't you write immediately?

Mr. Rajda: Just give me a note. Wherever I can help, I will definitely do it. There is complaint, if you... First of all, about this visa, which is very difficult to be removed, and now...

Prabhupāda: In a nice paper you note.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I'm going to type it down, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Do it immediately. In the Bhāgavata it is said that one hasn't got to learn Bhāgavata, but if he simply says, "Yes, it is is very nice," he gets some good result. Similarly, our movement is such that if simply one appreciates, "Yes, it is good..." Your chief minister has accepted, Maharastra chief minister.

Devotee (2): Yes, Chawan.

Prabhupāda: Where is that cutting that was published? He came, all, in Punjab. So there is no doubt about it, that this is the best humanitarian activities. So kindly help us as far as possible.

Mr. Rajda: No, I think myself duty-bound. It is very important.

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. (Hindi)

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, but you haven't increased the...

Prabhupāda: And your enemy country, they're actually happy. They print exactly money like this. They come and purchase goods and give you fortune, anybody. I know. Then what is the difficulty? Suppose this American dollar, is it very difficult to print? So the Chinese, they are America's enemy, they can print, bring millions of dollars and purchase from your country and export to his country and give you some paper. You are... What you can do?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, we can only hope that we'll catch them. We hope that we'll catch them.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing, "when we catch." Who will catch? "Bell the cat." It is going on. I know. During wartime, one Chinese man was coming from China, and one business friend, he was appointed his purchasing agent. He was giving a list of goods to purchase. And this man, whatever money he'll charge, he'll immediately-Indian currency. He'll not say, "Why so much price?" No. Then he will pack up the goods and through some channel he'll dispatch it. That is also through our way, not in the... The China is in on the border. There also, if you pay money, smuggler's rate... They try to do.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That seems to be a big issue now, these smugglers. I notice in the newspapers every day.

Prabhupāda: The smugglers get with money, printed money. Who can check it?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So printed money should have gold behind it.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the theory. What is the rate of economy?

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You have got this copy?

Dr. Sharma: The Russians, they are all, they are not a very (indistinct) people. Their government is standing in the way.

Guest (2): The younger generation, as you are presenting, of India and the developing countries it's okay. In some way or another they have known the existence of God, whether they call Him Christ or someone. We can convince them later. But the very fact that they have denied the acceptance, that requires a special treatment. So you should make something different (indistinct). I find it very difficult to go to...

Prabhupāda: And one thing, very commonsense reason...

Dr. Sharma: Common sense is not common. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: No. Even they have no common sense... Just like sarva-dughā, what is called, sarva-kāma-dughā mahī. From earth, so many things are coming. The grass is coming, the tree is coming, and animals, they eat grass, they are coming, the human... Everything is coming. So Kṛṣṇa says that the material nature is the mother, because mother is giving birth. So the child is there, the mother is there, and who is the father? You cannot say that without father, a child can be born, or the mother can independently give birth to any offspring. That is not possible. So so many living entities are coming from the material nature, and the offsprings are there. Then who is the father? And the father is there. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). "I am." So no sane man can deny existence of God. That is not possible. As soon as you deny the existence of God, means you are insane. You require treatment. There is no doubt. This is common sense. So many lives are coming from the earth. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). Either earth, water, air, there is life. They are coming. And the children are there, mother is there. Should we not inquire who is the father? If you say without father they have come, that is foolishness, madness. Immediately, he's mad. So you cannot deny the existence. If you deny, then you are mad. That is the sign of insanity. They require treatment. That is explained in one Bengali poetry.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So now they are getting fifty rupees. Time will come: even if you pay five thousand rupees, you won't get one mango. That is coming.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They won't be around anywhere.

Prabhupāda: That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Even you pay five thousand rupees, you won't get. And if you get, it is simply the seed; no pulp.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Pit and skin. That means it will be very difficult to execute patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (BG 9.26). There won't be those things.

Prabhupāda: Last problem(?). Better to go back home as soon as possible. One life, do all penances, all austerities. Simply stick to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, and the business is finished.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're sticking to your lotus feet, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Who knows the secret? It is in the Bhāgavata.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Today I was reading a very beautiful section of Caitanya-caritāmṛta that Kṛṣṇa comes in the form of the spiritual master. And then that...

Prabhupāda: Spiritual master is a revelation of Kṛṣṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Guru-kṛṣṇa.

Morning Conversation -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Complete failure. Kṛṣṇa says, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam: (BG 8.15) "It is a place for suffering." This rascal wanted to make it for enjoyment. Everyone is trying. Everyone is trying to make the commode a very nice room.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) That's a pithy saying. Actually you remember that... In your Devasādana, in your Detroit palace, that toilet, the commode there, is better than any man's house in India practically.

Prabhupāda: Very difficult to deal with the people of this world. They are so nasty. They can do anything.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're not at all civilized.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're like animals. You never know what they will do. We were again reading about rāma-rājya, and Lord Rāma decided to go out and to hear what the citizens were saying. So in one home He heard that there was some doubt. Sītādevī was pregnant. There was some doubt about it. Immediately He decided that She had to be sent away. So exemplary, His character. It's described how He was distributing. He distributed everything He had, and He had nothing but the clothes left, and Sītā had nothing but Her nose ring. And the brāhmaṇas were so overwhelmed that they could understand that He was the Supreme Personality of Godhead and yet He was such an ideal king that they gave Him everything back. So there is no such dealings like this nowadays between the government and the citizens. Rather, they elect some leader and then they rebel and try to kill the leader. Just like in Pakistan. Now they're trying to kill this Bhutto.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? There was attempt to kill?

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Indian. Indian?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, because so many Indians have not been granted visa in Iran, so they are now reciprocating like that, and I had to go back to Tehran to see the ambassador, who is our friend, getting visa and come back immediately.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: The government are just playing these games.

Prabhupāda: Whimsical. Very, very difficult to deal with such unscrupulous government. But still, we have got open field all over the world.

Rāmeśvara: In America the book selling has now surpassed last year.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Rāmeśvara: We are trying to double. So it is not yet doubled, but it has gone...

Prabhupāda: Surplus.

Rāmeśvara: ...beyond last year.

Prabhupāda: Oh. That's nice. It is going to be doubled.

Rāmeśvara: We are confident. By your words it will double.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Be doubly blessed. Yes. I say, America is my fatherland. So New Vrindaban is developing? Be happy everywhere.

Kīrtanānanda: How can we be happy when you're not well?

Conversations with Kirtana Groups -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Anartha upaśamaṁ sākṣāt. Nobody dies without illicit sex or intoxication. Anartha, unnecessarily they are habituated. There is no need, but by bad association you have practiced this, habituated, cannot be given up. LSD. Government spends so much, millions of dollars, that "These hippies may give up." Not successful. See practically. And as soon as they come to our camp, they give up. Is it not?

Jayapatākā: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Anartha upaśamaṁ sākṣāt. In every step anartha. This material life means anartha. There is no need, but anādi karama phale. Due to our karma we are put into this unfavorable condition, and it is very difficult to come out of it. But if you take to bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje, immediately... Who is taking, without any force... How practical it is. Anartha upaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje.

Hari-śauri:

vāsudeve bhagavati

bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ

janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ

jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam

(SB 1.2.7)

Prabhupāda: The same bhakti-yoga. This is practical.

Jayapatākā: Now there's another group.

Yaśodānandana: Jaya oṁ viṣṇupāda paramahaṁsa parivrājakācārya aṣṭottara-śata śrī-śrīmad... (break)

Prabhupāda: They do not know. They'll not pay. All dry flowers they'll supply you and take American money. He'll not pay. Anyway, satisfy yourself. So it is raining?

Conversations with Kirtana Groups -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The meaning, that "I am taking this sannyāsa for the purpose of crossing over the ocean of nescience." Etāṁ sa āsthāya parātma-niṣṭhām. Parātma-niṣṭha, Bhagavān, Paramātmā. Simply to serve Kṛṣṇa... So here are three daṇḍas. One daṇḍa, person. There are four daṇḍas. He is person, "I am." And the other three daṇḍa—my mind... Kāya manaḥ vākya: my mind, my body and my words. "So I dedicate my mind, my body and my activities, parātma-niṣṭha, only for the service of the Supreme. So being situated in that position, following..." Pūrvatamair maharṣibhiḥ. It is not that I have introduced something new. All big, big ācāryas, they took sannyāsa for this preaching work-Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Śaṅkarācārya even. And that is pūrvatamair maharṣibhiḥ. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). We have to follow maharṣibhiḥ. So "All ācāryas of India, they have taken sannyāsa, so I am also taking sannyāsa. The business is parātma-niṣṭha." So what will be the benefit? Ahaṁ tariṣyāmi duranta-pāram: "This ocean of nescience is duranta-pāram. It is very, very difficult to cross over. But I'll cross over." How? Tamaḥ. This is darkness, tamaḥ. Mukundāṅghri-niṣevayaiva: "Simply by serving the lotus feet of Mukunda." Mukunda means "one who can give liberation, mukti." Mukunda. So chant again this.

Devotees: (repeat same verse)

Prabhupāda: Again.

Devotees: (repeat same verse)

Prabhupāda: Again.

Devotees: (repeat same verse)

Prabhupāda: So now... Whose daṇḍa it is?

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is jñāna.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's so scientific, it's very difficult to also describe it, especially in scientific language.

Prabhupāda: Why you have to do?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We are describing that life, or ātmā, as such. Sometimes they ask, "Show me the experiment so that I know that there is life," so we are proposing that "Yes, the experiment is bhakti-yoga."

Prabhupāda: Another example you can give. Suppose a man is high-court judge, very... Now, his mother is feeding him, sitting down. And if the son says, "No, let me dress like a high-court judge, then I shall eat," will the mother like it? That is like...(?) "You become high-court judge and be satisfied."(?)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Once I gave a lecture at Emory University to the scientific community, and I tried to introduce this bhakti-yoga in a scientific language and found it difficult, but I tried to bring the idea by comparing that an electron... In order to study an electron, we actually take advantage of a field where an electric current can be generated. Otherwise the property of electron cannot be studied in a scientific experiment. Similarly, we established that ātmā, being nonphysical and nonchemical, is spiritual and also has personal character. We must take advantage of a personal feature where one can have direct relationship between this individual ātmā, and there should be also a supreme ātmā. And the relationship of the study of this will be the experimental study, and that experiment is bhakti-yoga.

Prabhupāda: I have several times stressed that living being is a sample of God. If you study living being, you understand God.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: At least one dozen rooms. (background talking) Twenty-six. So if fifteen rooms are taken by the Americans... How many students will be accommodated in one room?

Devotees (2): Four to five.

Prabhupāda: So fifteen to five, 250. At least 150 students you can accommodate them, nice. So arrange for that. And throughout India and the whole world you cannot bring 250? So is it very difficult to bring 250 students? So what kind of managers you are? So these things should be considered. (bad tape) (break) So if you have got any other questions, you can ask me. But first business is to bring students. We are open to the whole world, India also. Our society has got so many children. They are doing there, and some of them may come here. In this way it must be filled up with students. That is first business. Then manager arrange. "This manager will be in this room; that manager..." That is secondary. (laughs) First of all you must have students to manager over.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, should overseas gṛhasthas be encouraged to send their children to Vṛndāvana gurukula?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Our devotees abroad, should they who have children, should they be encouraged to send their sons to the Vṛndāvana gurukula?

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is... Practically the gurukula was planned for our own children. We have got gṛhastha devotees. They will have children, and they should be trained up. That was the idea of gurukula.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There are a lot of boys in the Los Angeles gurukula.

Showing of Planetary Sketches -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They cannot explain what is that. But I have seen it. Where it has gone, nobody knows. Just see. Down, hundred miles, and up... You cannot see more than hundred... But it appears like the instruction.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is Jambūdvīpa, part of Jambūdvīpa. That is Ilāvṛta-varṣa in the square. We have... These mountains are each two thousand yojanas high.

Bhakti-Prema: After Mandara Meru, Mandara, that Mandara Mountains... And here he began to meditate. He meditated for six thousand years on this Mandara Mountain here. Then Pārvatī came, and she... Then next... These two mountains are like (describes sketch of planetary system, very difficult to hear) And here is the beautiful Indu stream(?). And it's heart is... Eight hundred miles.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where is it?

Bhakti-Prema: On the Mandara Mountain. There are four different streams. This is Ilāvṛta-varṣa.

Yaśodānandana: This area?

Bhakti-Prema: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Śivaloka? Śivaloka?

Bhakti-Prema: Yes, it is not actually Śivaloka, but residence of Lord Śiva.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One of his... He described it that like during the summertime you go to a hill station. Each demigod has their place where they also go.

Bhakti-Prema: Śivaloka is different, but Lord Śiva is...

Bhu-mandala Diagram Discussion -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So island and surrounded by ocean, like that.

Bhakti-prema: Yes.

Yaśodā-nandana: Śālmalidvīpa is this purple here. Still, it is very difficult to see. And surrounding Śālmalidvīpa is an ocean of liquor, Surā-sāgara. There's an ocean of liquor. There is Kuśadvīpa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Which one is that?

Yaśodā-nandana: The little red circle is the Surā-sāgara. Then the little green here is the Kuśadvīpa. One particular feature of this land is that there's very..., kuśa grass, which is very, very cooling. It is all over the island. And then there is the ghee ocean which is surrounding Kuśadvīpa. That is the dark green.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dark green.

Yaśodā-nandana: No, the ghee ocean is the yellow color. The ghee ocean is surrounding the Kuśadvīpa. In fact, again surrounding the ghee ocean is Krauñcadvīpa, but Krauñcadvīpa is 1,600,000 yojanas in width. That means 12,800,000 miles. It is getting bigger, twice as big, as we go further. And after Krauñcadvīpa, surrounding Krauñcadvīpa is the milk ocean, and this milk ocean is surrounding the whole Krauñcadvīpa. And then again there is mention that the Śvetadvīpa Ocean, the Śvetadvīpa where Lord Viṣṇu... Lord Viṣṇu resides there in white island. This Your Divine Grace has described in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta.

Bhakti-prema: Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu resides there.

Yaśodā-nandana: Yes, kṣīra. Kṣīra means milk. Śākadvīpa is surrounding the milk ocean.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What color is it?

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is the Orissa government's principle.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is our answer to that? Our reply?

Prabhupāda: What you can reply if you conclude something like... They have no idea of spiritual life. This is disrupting, na dhanaṁ na janam. We don't want this. And they want it. So how you can reply? Everyone wants this, and we say, "We don't want." How you can make compromise? Therefore they say "emasculated." In your country also. "Why? What is the wrong, illicit sex? What is the wrong, intoxication?" They say, "Brainwash. Why not?" Is it not? It is very difficult to push on this movement. Still, we are going. That is Kṛṣṇa's grace. (pause)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Will you try to translate this afternoon, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Young woman at dead of night, beautiful woman, came to Haridāsa Ṭhākura to offer her body, and he denied. Who will appreciate this? (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We appreciate.

Prabhupāda: No, you appreciate, but in the modern world who will appreciate?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say something is wrong with Haridāsa Ṭhākura.

Prabhupāda: Brainwash.

Upendra: Unhealthy. And these Arabs, they were here visiting the temple. They saw a brahmacārī, and they explained brahmacārī means celibate. "Oh, he is sick." "Unhealthy," they said.

Room Conversation -- October 9, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That's good news. What is this?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Tape recorder.

Prabhupāda: It is a good news.

Rāmeśvara: It is very difficult to publish any books in Iran, but the princess is personally giving our first book to the Minister of Information and ordering him to give us permission to print. It's a Muslim country, so it's very difficult. But the royal family is ordering the ministry that censors all publications. They are ordering them to let us have permission to start publishing your books in the local language, Persian, or Parsi.

Prabhupāda: So they are going to do that?

Rāmeśvara: She is personally going to the minister and ordering him, "Now you give permission that this book be printed." Whatever... It is a monarchy. Whatever they want, it is arranged. So in this way they are helping us. She also came to Los Angeles temple for a visit and saw the doll museum. She liked that very, very much. She was very, very astonished at how devotional.

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Why not scratch hard?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why not scratch with nail?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Whole area.

Room Conversation -- October 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, what do you think of him?

Dr. Kapoor: He's not very efficient. You should call some good doctor from Agra, from Mathurā. Doctor Vyas of Mathurā is good. He's a devotee also, Dr. Vyas. The son of late Dr. Vyas, Dr. G. N. Vyas. If you say, I can write to him. Hm? I can write to him. Isn't there any doctor amongst the disciples of Prabhupāda who can stay here for some time?

Girirāja: Well, there are doctors, but actually it's very difficult to find a doctor that the treatment is effective. So it's very difficult.

Dr. Kapoor: What I mean to say is ask him to treat Prabhupāda or not. But there should be some qualified doctor who stays here permanently for the purpose of checking him out from time to time, because you are all laymen. If there is any complication, you don't understand it. So if there is doctor by his side always, he can check up and say, "This is so and so." You can call any other doctor afterwards and treat him. In the present condition of Prabhupāda it is necessary that you always have some good medical advice available here. So if you had one of the disciples of Prabhupāda... There was one Dr. Batnagar, I think, who retired as civil surgeon of Mathurā, who was here for some time I saw. If he can be help, you can call him, I think.

Girirāja: Dr. Batnagar?

Dr. Kapoor: I don't remember his name, but perhaps Dr. Batnagar. He's perhaps a disciple of Prabhupāda. He at least stayed here for quite some time, and he told me that once he proposed that he would stay here permanently and treat the devotees.

Prabhupāda: Sometimes they recommend hospitalization, and I don't like that.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Haṁsadūta: Don't they have private planes?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, Prabhupāda doesn't want. (talking in background amongst devotees) I already suggested that in London to Prabhupāda, and he wouldn't do it. I mean it's very difficult to arrange these things in India, private plane, you know, without a lot of advance, like twenty thousand, thirty thousand rupees.

Hari-śauri: Private plane? Yes, and then it would have to be a propeller plane, too. They're hellish. Phew! We traveled on those to Chandigarh.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This country you can't do these things like that. So...

Brahmānanda: Then directly from Dum Dum to Māyāpur?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Then we go direct from Dum Dum to Māyāpur. We don't even have to go into Calcutta. Is that all right? So do you agree, Śrīla Prabhupāda, with the idea then, that the sooner we transfer there, the better, to Māyāpur? As far as the kavirāja goes, let us see if we get a local man from Calcutta, failing which, Smara-hari plus one other devotee will go to Śrī Raṅgam, and from a very reliable kavirāja, in their presence, they will have it made. Smara-hari, you see, is from Gurukṛpā and Yaśodā-nandana's party, so he has got experience sitting and watching people making the silver onto the throne. He knows how to sit and watch not to get cheated.

Prabhupāda: No, the thing is the man who would prepare, he must be experienced. That is wanted. And sincere. Then it will work, either you prepare there or here. When our men...? (devotees talk among themselves softly about who should go to Śrī Raṅgam)

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Why not?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When the boys are going village to village, if they get subscriptions, it's good?

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. That's a nice program. Anybody can afford it. What is a yearly subscription to the Bhāgavata Darśana?

Bhavānanda: Only one problem with Bhāgavata subscription is theft in the mail. It's very difficult to get it, for it to reach its destination.

Prabhupāda: No, they make contact. For twelve rupees they'll get twelve copies.

Bhavānanda: When they contact.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhavānanda: That's good idea.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You mean they have to come and collect.

Bhavānanda: Yes. They come to the temple few times a year, once a year. They'll get their copies and go.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then you have to keep them set aside with the person's name on it? That's not so hard. Just stick the person's name on it.