Pradyumna: Venus is covered by clouds. So no one can see what is there. There's clouds all around the planet. Heavy, what do they call, so that no one can see. So they sent a rocket inside or something to go through the clouds to see what is there. Russians also tried. Fermament. In the Bible, they say that on earth there was also..., above the earth there were all clouds at one time according to the Bible. And then at that time men used to live very, very long, and then the clouds went away at some point. They call it a firmament. So the same thing is on Venus. No one can see what the planet is like, no one has ever known. That is also a heavenly, we say also... That is Śukrācārya's place?
Prabhupāda: Not Śukrācārya's, just Śukra.
Pradyumna: Just Śukra.
Prabhupāda: May be Śukrācārya's place. What benefit they will have? Nothing. This is science. Without any aim, without any objective.
Hari-śauri: What they're doing is entirely pointless. There's no proper reason for any of it. Because they aren't improving their actual living standards by it. They are... It's just like a jñāni, he thinks advancement of knowledge, just to simply acquire any amount of knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Kevala-bodha-labdhaye. They are described: Kliśyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye. Simply works hard simply to know things. No benefit. These rascals are like that. Kevala-bodha-labdhaye.
Hari-śauri: That's the futility of the university system now. They are going and they're accumulating knowledge which is worthless for living. It has no practical value, so all the youth are becoming very frustrated.
Prabhupāda: Any sane man will be frustrated. Why you are spending money and going there? Kevala-bodha-labdhaya, kliśyanti kevala, bhaktim.... Kliśyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye teṣām asau kleśala eva śiṣyate nānyad yathā sthūla-tuṣāvaghātinām. Just like the husk... The outer portion of rice? If there is rice, you husk, beat it, rice will come. The rice is not there, simply husk, what is the use of this beating? It is like that. Rice will not come, simply they are trying to beat it. So the result is they become tired, that's all. They only result is they'll become tired. Kleśala eva śiṣyate, that's all. The result of hard labor is tiresome. So they'll get that only, that's all. They are satisfied, "Now we are tiresome, let us sleep." What you have gotten? "Dust." That's all. This is the philosophy. Bhaktim, what is that verse?
Pradyumna: Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8)?
Prabhupāda: Huh? That's not it. Kleśala, kleśala.
Pradyumna: Kleśadikataras, kleśa?
Prabhupāda: Kliśyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye teṣām asau kleśala eva śiṣyate nānyad yathā sthūla-tuṣāvaghātinām.
Hari-śauri: It's from the Bhāgavatam?
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is mentioned in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Any process you accept, rejecting devotional service, the result will be that there is no profit. You simply labor for nothing, as much as to beat the husk, you'll never get the rice, you will simply be tiresome, that's all. Just like so-called religion. There is no faith in God. There is no need of God, and "religion." This is nonsense. Religion means without God? This is going on. God, you can accept anyone, Ramakrishna Mission. Any rascal...He was a fool, illiterate rascal, Ramakrishna. He became God. No standard, and they are propagating Ramakrishna Mission. As we are preaching Kṛṣṇa is God, they are preaching Ramakrishna. And who's accepting them? For the last hundred years, they are preaching. So who has become a devotee of Ramakrishna?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's absurd to even think about becoming a devotee of Ramakrishna.
Prabhupāda: You have got Caitanya-caritāmṛta?
Pradyumna: I think it is Tenth Canto. Śreyaḥ śrutiṁ bhaktim? I've been making a list of all the verses that you quote most.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Pradyumna:
- śreyaḥ śrutiṁ bhaktim udasya te vibho
- kliśyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye
- teṣām asau kleśala eva śiṣyate
- nānyad yathā sthūla-tuṣāvaghātinām
- (SB 10.14.4)
Prabhupāda: There is note?
Pradyumna: Bhaktiṁ vinā jñānaṁ tu naiva siddhyed ity aha (indistinct) śreyaḥ śrutim iti; śreyasam abhyudayāpavarga-lakṣanānaṁ sṛtiḥ śaraṇaṁ, yasyaḥ sarasa iva nirjharanam, taṁ te tava bhaktim udasya tyaktvā śreyasaṁ mārga-bhūtam iti vā; teṣāṁ kleśalaḥ kleśa evāvaśiṣyate. Ayaṁ bhavān (indistinct) yathā alpapramāṇam dhanyaṁ parityajya antaḥ (indistinct) kanahinaṁ sthula-dhanyabhasams tusaneva (indistinct) vaghnanti, teṣāṁ na kiñcit phalaṁ, evaṁ bhaktiṁ tucchi-kṛtya ye kevala-bodhaya prayatante, teṣām apiti.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Simply tiresome, that's all. Religion, no God. There are so many religions.
Hari-śauri: Soon as they forget the actual religion then there are so many concoctions.
Prabhupāda: "This is our religion." What is religion? "No God." What is religion? Then, those who are godless, they have got religion. Atheism has got religion. Then why bring this religion? What is the meaning of religion? Just see.
Pradyumna: One time we went to a church in Boston to speak. They had only a pulpit for the preacher, and behind, no altar, no crucifix, nothing, just big map of outer space with planets on the wall. Not even any Christian church, but no cross, nothing. Only universe. Universalist Church, it's called. The Universalists.
Prabhupāda: That's nice, but give some information of the universe.
Hari-śauri: Says, "Religion: 1. monastic condition, being a monk or a nun, enter into a monastic order; 2. practice of sacred rites; 3. one of the prevalent systems of faith and worship, i.e. Christian, Muhammadan, etc.; 4. human recognition of superhuman controlling power and especially of a personal God entitled to obedience, effect of such recognition on conduct and mental attitude."
Prabhupāda: This is religion. Personal conception of God.
Hari-śauri: And then "5. action that one is bound to do."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is there. Any one of them you take. That's good idea, but special conception of personal God, huh? What is that?
Hari-śauri: "Human recognition of superhuman controlling power and especially of a personal God entitled to obedience."
Prabhupāda: That's all, clear. What are the other items?
Hari-śauri: Then, "the effect of such recognition on conduct and mental attitude." And then "action that one is bound to do."
Prabhupāda: One is bound to do. Dharmena hina paśubhiḥ samana. If he does not do, then he's animal. It must be done. There is no question of optional. If you are human being, you must be religious, you must recognize the supreme controller. Otherwise, you are animal. What is the other interpretations? Beginning one?
Hari-śauri: "Monastic condition, being a monk or a nun."
Prabhupāda: Just like every religion has got some condition, monastic, is it not?
Hari-śauri: Yes, every religion has a system of priests.
Prabhupāda: (Coughs severely for a few minutes) Monastic condition?
Hari-śauri: "Practice of sacred rites."
Prabhupāda: So, without reference to God, what is the meaning of sacred rites? Everything is reference that accepting the supreme controller. That is the real meaning. At least, Christian religion accepts God, Muhammadan religion accepts God, or Hindu religion accepts God. So without God, how it can be religion? If there is no understanding of God, the conclusion comes that there is no religion. Fictitious. "We trust in God," but do not know what is God. This is going on. So we have to fight against all this nonsense. Nonsense scientists, nonsense religionists. What do you think? It is not easy-going, sleeping business. We have to fight with so many demons. Otherwise, kava dava adakanam (?), my Guru Mahārāja used to say. Beg some rice and bring it and cook it and eat and sleep.