Śyāmasundara: He doesn't deny another authority, he just doesn't know which authority is the real, correct authority.
Prabhupāda: Well, that we know. Therefore we say that Vedic knowledge is authority. That is the difference between the Western philosophers and the Indian philosophers. They accept the authority of the Vedas.
Devotee (2): Well, even when one chooses a spiritual master, it's not as if he accepts anybody that comes along. He must have some criteria for choosing that person, and that criterion must begin with an observation of phenomena because that's all he has to work with. It's not as if you take any bhogī who is walking down the street and say, "All right, you become my spiritual master."
Prabhupāda: No. There is standard. There is standard. That is also authority. The Vedas says, tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet, abhigacchet śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). These are the qualities—śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham. So accepting an authority as spiritual master, you have to check this, whether he is śrotriyam, whether he is brahma-niṣṭham. Śrotriyam means whether he has heard perfectly from his spiritual master, and by hearing, whether he is completely, firmly standing on brahma (indistinct). These are the two qualities. So anything, you have to learn the same thing from authority.
Śyāmasundara: Well, if Kṛṣṇa is seated in the intelligence...
Devotee: Also, isn't it possible that someone who has no exposure...
Prabhupāda: Even if you take Kṛṣṇa as authority, then you accept authority.
Śyāmasundara: I'm saying that because Kṛṣṇa is there in the..., is the prowess of all..., the intelligence of all intelligent men, is it not possible if someone has no exposure to the Vedic authorities, that he can still approach the Absolute Truth through clear intelligence?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That means he has to take lesson from Kṛṣṇa from within. That Brahmā took.
Śyāmasundara: That's his whole idea, to turn within to get the answer. By wiping away all of the prejudices.
Prabhupāda: So that is a perfect method. Just like Brahmā, there was nobody externally, but Brahmā got all the knowledge from inside, internally. Tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye. Ādi-kavi, the Brahmā, he learned all the knowledge from Kṛṣṇa. Where is Kṛṣṇa? He was alone. No. Hṛdi, (indistinct). Kṛṣṇa is within the heart, (indistinct).
Śyāmasundara: Just like one of Husserl's predecessors, Descartes, we discussed him before, he wanted the same platform, the same basis of understanding. So his only thought, his first thought, was cogito ergo sum: "I think, therefore I am." Eliminating all other thoughts, conclusions, there is at least that one thing: "I think, therefore I am." So he wants to start on the same basis, by wiping away all understanding and knowledge and beginning from the objects themselves, and reducing from those things, the essence of those things, to the truth.
Devotee: Isn't that jñāna-yoga?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Devotee: Isn't that the same thing as jñāna-yoga?
Prabhupāda: No. Jñāna-yoga does not think that. Jñāna-yoga means you have to receive jñāna, knowledge, from others.
Śyāmasundara: Just like he uses another example...
Prabhupāda: They are called adaksi (?). Adaksi, simply that sense perception. That's all. So they are not perfect.
Śyāmasundara: No. But not... Behind sense perception he also proceeds to the other levels. For instance, there's a..., he has to distinguish between the phenomenon of a sound, of a sound, and the constituting or intelligible essence of sound. From one particular sound, try to understand the nature of sound in general—what is sound. He says the intelligence comes into play then.
Prabhupāda: Sound is a symptom of the sky. When there is sound, there is sky.
Śyāmasundara: So that would be the next logical understanding, intuitive understanding.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: Behind hearing one sound, the proof of that understanding of sound in general is the sky, like that. In an elective process, this is a process for understanding these things.
Prabhupāda: On the whole, his process is mental speculation.
Śyāmasundara: So he says that in things there is a self-evident truth. In everything there is something self-evident that makes it true. Is that not possible?
Prabhupāda: That self-evidence is certain (indistinct). Just like this leaf, that you see the greenness of the leaf, but that is not all. If you actually want to study that leaf, simply the superficial vision of the leaf as green is not all.
Śyāmasundara: No.
Prabhupāda: So a person who has adaksi, sense perception, they cannot have perfect knowledge. He has seen simply phenomenon. Behind this phenomenon they cannot see. Therefore their knowledge is imperfect.
Devotee: So then if we (indistinct), Lord Brahmā took instruction from within his heart, we can understand that he had a pure heart, he was able to take instruction from Kṛṣṇa from within, that his heart was pure.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee: But when that contaminated consciousness, in..., that kind of knowledge is unacceptable to him, in that contamination.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's it.