Prabhupāda: Third Canto, it is five coverings?
Janārdana: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And in the Second Canto seven coverings?
Janārdana: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Seven kinds of subtle, and these five covering is gross. So subtle should be taken also.
Janārdana: Yes. Is pradhāna subtle matter?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Janārdana: So the subtle is moving the gross like the miller's wheel. The potter's wheel moves the pot. So the pradhāna... So the mind is moving the body. So the pradhāna... They simply put pradhāna...
Prabhupāda: If it is mentioned, five, then it is five gross, and seven means subtle. So five or seven... Of course, seven is more explicit than the five.
Janārdana: I never see anywhere where it is mentioned that there's an earth covering. It's always water as the first. Water is the first layer that's given. So there are four of the elements.
Prabhupāda: Then above water there is air.
Janārdana: Air, fire, ether. Water, fire, air, ether, and then this pradhāna. So pradhāna is split up into the three: ahaṇkāra, mahat-tattva and... What's...?
Prabhupāda: Pradhāna is material ingredients, material cause.
Janārdana: Material cause.
Prabhupāda: And prakṛti...
Janārdana: Is the efficient cause.
Prabhupāda: Efficient cause.
Janārdana: That is in the Brahma-saṁhitā.
Prabhupāda: Yes.