Brian Singer: How do.... In the Gītā, Bhagavad-gītā, there was a problem to understand when a person was told by Kṛṣṇa to fight.
Prabhupāda: Well, that is.... That.... That we shall discuss. First of all you understand that you are not this body.
Brian Singer: But how can you...
Prabhupāda: Then we discuss other things. This is the primary education of spiritual life. First of all you have to understand that you are not this body. You are living entity, different from the body. Just like you are different from the shirt-coat. But the difficulty is, the person who is in a different type of shirt-coat, he is identifying with the shirt-coat, and they are fighting. You have got black coat. You have got white coat. You have got yellow coat. But they do not understand, none of us belong to the coat. We are different from the coat. That is ignorance. The whole world is going on under this impression that "I am this body." So how there will be peace? That kind of thinking is there in the dogs, in the cats. So our point is that if you remain like cats and dogs, how you can attain peace? You are endeavoring for peace. It is not possible. First of all you understand yourself. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). These things are discussed there.
Brian Singer: It is good to work towards understanding of God and Kṛṣṇa consciousness. How do you know.... How does the individual person know.... If he makes decision every day.... But we must make decisions on certain things...
Prabhupāda: No, in ignorance, whatever decision you make, that is foolishness.
Brian Singer: Any?
Prabhupāda: Any decision. If you are on the wrong platform, whatever decision you make, that is foolishness. And therefore we are being baffled. Every time we are making decision, and next time it is found useless, another decision, because on the wrong platform, the basic principle being wrong, whatever decision you make, this is all foolishness. What is the value of the children's decision? Is there any value? Because he's not in proper understanding, what is the meaning of his decision? So one child makes one decision. Another child makes another decision. There is fight. The dog also do that.
Brian Singer: Who made the decision for Arjuna to fight or not to fight?
Prabhupāda: That you'll understand when you actually understand yourself. You do not understand yourself. You cannot understand why Kṛṣṇa said that "You fight." First of all understand yourself. That is the first instruction the Arjuna was given, that the.... Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). He's not teaching how to fight. He's teaching the philosophy. Try to understand the, I mean, step by step. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a scientific movement. It is not a religious faith. That is not. The beginning is that as the child grows to become a boy and boy grows to become a young man.... This is scientific. It is not the question of religion. It is religion.... According to Sanskrit, the dharma, the word dharma, that is translated into "religion," and religion means a kind of faith. But it is not like that. It is a science to understand your real identification. And because Kṛṣṇa we worship.... Every big man should be worshiped, so Kṛṣṇa we accept God. They take it as religion. But He's God. That's a fact. God-worshiping is religion. But Kṛṣṇa is speaking everything knowledge. Knowledge means you must have knowledge of everything, social, political, religious, cultural, philosophical, chemical, physical, everything. So the Bhagavad-gītā is like that. Vedic knowledge is like that. You receive any type of knowledge you want to get. That is called Veda. Veda means knowledge. Knowledge means of anything. That is knowledge. So everything is there. You'll find social, political.... This fighting is political. So in politics sometimes war is necessary. You cannot avoid it when there is politics. That is the whole history, and politics are never settled up without war. There is no history. When you come to the political platform, war is necessary. In logic it is called argumentum vaculum, that when a man is not accepting reasoning, then there must be stick. It is like that. When there are two parties—there is some disagreement—so one is not reasonable, then there must be stick. That is war. Just like animal. The animal cannot understand reasoning, so you have to take the stick. Then the animal will agree. If a dog entering room, you don't want him in, so you say, "Dog, don't enter." He'll not hear. And if you show a stick, it will go away. So for the dogs, for the animals, stick is required. That is war. And there is logic. You know this, argumentum vaculum. In logic there is. So when logic fails, you have to take to war. Not whimsically. You try to avoid war. And when the other party does not agree to logic, then there must be fight. So that is also necessary because all men are not abiding by logic. So everything is necessary if it used for good purpose. Just like surgical operation. The patient is crying, "Don't operate me, surgical." So it is necessary. Otherwise he'll not be cured. So war is not always bad. War is meant for good purpose. But if you use it.... Everything you can use for bad purpose. That is another thing, another side. But don't think that war is itself always bad, no.
Brian Singer: Sometimes my understanding of the Kṛṣṇa teachings in the book is to reach a stage or a state in your person where there is no disappointment or no very happy...
Prabhupāda: No. If you follow Kṛṣṇa's instruction, you'll always be happy. And if you create your own plans, then you'll be unhappy. This is the whole instruction. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) "You give up your own plans, nonsense plan. You take My plan. You'll be happy." This is the whole purpose of Bhagavad-gītā. You take Kṛṣṇa's plan and you'll be happy.
Brian Singer: And you avoid disappointment.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There will be no disappointment. And as, if you make your plan, it will be baffled and you'll be disappointed. That is going on.
Brian Singer: But sometimes in the past, I have noticed from very bad disappointment that I have learnt very much.
Prabhupāda: Well, you were lucky. You are sometimes not disappointed. But generally you are disappointed. So we are teaching that "You take Kṛṣṇa's plan. You'll be happy. Don't make your own plan. You'll never be happy." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Brian Singer: Is Kṛṣṇa cons..., the Kṛṣṇa movement, is it still growing?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Devotee (2): Is the Kṛṣṇa movement still growing?
Prabhupāda: What do you think?
Brian Singer: In numbers. Yeah. I think yes, but I don't know.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It must grow. If it is good, there must be customer. And if it is bad—it is cheating—there may be some customer for some time, then it will be finished. That is the test of reality and false thing. You can cheat persons with false things for some time, but if your commodity is right, the customer will increase. That's a fact. The more people will appreciate, "Oh, here is nice commodity. Purchase it..."
Brian Singer: Do many people follow Kṛṣṇa consciousness by reading books in this method?
Prabhupāda: No, not only reading books. By practicing, by understanding. Then it comes right.
Brian Singer: But what proportion of those people, of all the people...
Prabhupāda: You.... You cannot expect any good thing to be taken up by mass of people. That is not possible. In university, when matriculation candidates, there are so many. Then B.A. candidates, so many. And when you come to the M.A., Ph.D., a very few number.
Doug Warvick: Why is that?
Prabhupāda: You cannot expect that everyone should be M.A., Ph.D. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is like that. It is not meant for ordinary persons. Those who are very intelligent, they can understand it. Ordinary men, they cannot understand even that he's not this body. What he will understand about Kṛṣṇa? Therefore the beginning understanding is that "I am not this body." When you are firmly convinced about this science that you are not this body, then Kṛṣṇa consciousness beginning.