Expressions researched:
"international society for krishna consciousness"
|"iskcon"
|"krsna conscious society"
|"krsna consciousness society"
Interviewer: Swami, will you get a little closer to that microphone, if you will. You are the head of ISKCON, the International Society for Krishna Consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Interviewer: Is it a church?
Prabhupāda: It is not exactly a church, but it is an institution for understanding the science of God.
Interviewer: Now I just want to read one section here. I think you'll be able to... "The International Society for Krishna Consciousness began when Swami Bhaktivedanta arrived from India with $2 on his person, a metal suitcase full of ancient-looking books and a cotton cloth robe, colored yellow, as a sign of the renounced order of life. In India, men of his order are completely dedicated to propagating the spiritual life of a mendicant wanderer. He had wandered across the sea upon the order issued to him by his guru who told him he should prepare to go to America to teach the principles taught in the Bhagavad-gītā and to translate the sixty volumes of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam into English." Now, are you a guru?
Prabhupāda: Yes, I am the spiritual master of this institution, and all the members of the society, they're supposed to be my disciples. They follow the rules and regulations which I ask them to follow, and they are initiated by me spiritually. So therefore the spiritual master is called guru. That is Sanskrit language.
Interviewer: We're talking with Swami A.C. Bhaktivedanta, head of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. If you have questions our numbers are 478-3456, in the East Bay 832-9707, in San Jose 272-1233. (break) A.C. Bhaktivedanta, International Society for Krishna Consciousness. What does the word Kṛṣṇa mean?
Prabhupäda: Kṛṣṇa is, means all-attractive. Kṛṣṇa.
Interviewer: Know yourself. I have some more questions. We're talking with Swami A.C. Bhaktivedanta, head of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. (radio ad:) ...And you can sell anything by reaching more than two million who read the Chronicle and the Examiner.
Interviewer: Are they mostly young people? From the calls we've been getting and from the people here in the studio...
Prabhupäda: Yes, they are invariably all young boys and girls. Yes.
Interviewer: All right, hold for one second. We're talking with Swami A.C. Bhaktivedanta, head of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. (break) And our telephones are open to you. (gives phone numbers again). What hair cut? Oh, is there any significance of your hair cut over there? Is there a microphone over there we can get you on? Put that other one over there. Because we have several young men here in the studio with the Swami. What is the significance of your hair cut?
Prabhupāda: So it is not a thing that one should attain the transcendental loving platform of Kṛṣṇa by studying. No. vinā mahat-pāda-rajo 'bhiṣekam. It can be achieved by the grace of Kṛṣṇa or by the grace of Kṛṣṇa's devotees. It is not that because one is very learned, he will become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Or because one is rich, therefore he will become Kṛṣṇa conscious, or because one is great mystic, therefore he will. No. That will come... vinā mahat-pāda-rajo 'bhiṣekam. It cannot be achieved without touching the dust of lotus feet of a great devotee. That is the affect. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended,
So this association is required. If you can make your Kṛṣṇa consciousness society perfectly Kṛṣṇa conscious, wherever you will go, they will become Kṛṣṇa conscious, simply by your presence. So you have to become perfect in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There should be no adulteration. That adulteration means that knowledge and fruitive activities and material desires. If Kṛṣṇa consciousness is freed from these three kinds of contamination, then that is pure.
Prabhupāda: So he wants to open a restaurant.
Janārdana: Here?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Our, I mean to say, ISKCON restaurant. So you wanted to open that restaurant in our temple.
Janārdana: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So why don't you do it? He is a very nice cooker.
Janārdana: If he stays here to cook, that's a very good idea.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he'll stay. And I have told him already. And I have asked all the students in America chased by this draft board may come here.
Reporter: Now where would the moon planet fit?
Prabhupāda: Moon planet is the upper. That is the beginning of upper planetary system. Still upper, upper, upper, there are many layers.
Reporter: Now can you explain to me, I have some background information about the Kṛṣṇa consciousness society, but I don't know how to explain it in relation to the broad word Hinduism. Now how do you relate the International Society for Krishna Consciousness to Hinduism? How would you describe it, as a part of Hinduism?
Prabhupāda: No. Hinduism practically we do not recognize because this word "Hinduism" is not mentioned in any Vedic literature. It is a foreign term. The Muhammadans, they called the inhabitants of India as "Hindus." From that word, it is has come to "Hinduism." Otherwise, we don't find that word in any Vedic literature. "Hinduism" is a foreign term, it is not a Vedic term.
Interviewer: We have with us in the studio the head and founder of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, and I think that his name is pronounced Bhaktivedanta, Swami A.C. Bhaktivedanta.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Interviewer: How long have you been in this country?
Prabhupāda: Since 1965, September.
Interviewer: Did you come to found this society?
Prabhupāda: Not exactly, but I came to preach the gospel of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and fortunately I met some enthusiastic young boys and girls. So then we formed this society.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. That doesn't matter. You have to take saṅkīrtana party. That should be the main business. And the..., at least sixteen men, four mṛdaṅgas. Practice mṛdaṅga like that. And twelve cymbals, and one chanting and all others responding. Oh, it will be tremendous. Take some flags, "ISKCON, Hare Kṛṣṇa" flag, red flag. You see? And conchshell, mṛdaṅga. In New York they are doing now, and they also one day collected 240 dollars or something like that. What is that?
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are doing very nice. (indistinct) We have some meeting in the university, kīrtana. Our..., wherever we go kīrtana and speaking. You have seen our book, Lord Caitanya's Teaching?
Allen Ginsberg: No. I haven't seen that. That's new.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Allen Ginsberg: Is that...? Er, ISKCON published.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Allen Ginsberg: Everybody agrees that our civilization has come to the end of its possibilities materially. So everybody understands that. It's in New York Times editorials as well as in the editorials of ISKCON journals. Both. And there is a population explosion as you've noted and as the middle class has noted. So everybody then is looking for an alternative to material extension.
Prabhupāda: They should inquire about the Absolute Truth.
Yamunā: What does the śloka in Bhagavad-gītā that says, action in inaction and inaction in action...
Prabhupāda: Yes, inaction means we do not enjoy the result of your action. Jaya. Wherefrom?
Gurudāsa: I don't know.
Prabhupāda: Where is the original stock? ISKCON Boston, or maybe tapes. (break) He's Kṛṣṇa. Ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa ara saba bhṛtya (CC Adi 5.142). (Hindi) (break) One God, Kṛṣṇa. One scripture, Bhagavad-gītā. One mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa. And one engagement, Kṛṣṇa's service. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Oh, oh, yes, yes. I remember. She is envious, that "Why two page advertisement, publicity has been..." That's all.
Haṁsadūta: There's another letter. It says, "Your leading article on the Kṛṣṇa cult makes interesting reading. A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, the Indian founder of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, ISKCON, and his American disciples repeatedly told K.R. Sundarajan, the author of the article in the Times Weekly, November 8th, 1970, during their brief stay in Bombay that theirs was not strictly a Hindu movement. They explained to him that Kṛṣṇa was above all religions, the universal teacher, the supreme man, the purification of the Absolute Truth. If it is so, then why can't they go to Pakistan and China for chanting of Kṛṣṇa's name and ask them to vacate aggression? The soil of this land where the great master was born..."
Prabhupāda: Now, now, we have to serve the political, politicians. Eh? Because they cannot do, so they are asking us.
Prabhupāda: You get your degree. That's all right. Finish your education. If I'll be able to open a center, nice center, I shall call so many people, "Come and live with me and be trained up." I am just writing one advertisement. We shall have to publish it. Just read it.
Haṁsadūta: "Wanted: qualified brāhmaṇas for preaching Bhagavad-gītā all over the world. (laughter) Candidates accepted without any discrimination of caste and creed. Apply ISKCON."
Yamunā: Oh, ho, ho, Prabhupāda!
Haṁsadūta: "Life member can send any member of his family for being trained up as a qualified brāhmaṇa who can preach Bhagavad-gītā as it is all over the world." You're going to put this in the newspaper?
Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes.
Devotee (2): We were getting a cow but we joined ISKCON just before we got the cow. We were going to get one for four hundred dollars. It was giving sixteen quarts a day and had a calf.
Prabhupāda: Sixteen quarts?
Prabhupāda: (knock on door) Yes, open it. Anyway, to make cut short, to make cut short, so far we are concerned, we have declared, "International Society for Krishna Consciousness." Our process of propaganda is that Kṛṣṇa is the highest authority. That is our... You may take it that we are limited; that is your business. But we have taken this. Now, if you don't accept Kṛṣṇa as the higher authority, then there is no question of inquiring from us.
Yamunā: Those beautiful birds, the peacock birds also at this time, they are flying in trees and waking up now and make that sound. Oh, Vṛndāvana.
Prabhupāda: So the society is very important thing. Any, anything, society... The businessmen, they have got their association, society, to improve. Therefore the standard of this International Society should be kept very carefully. Then who will come in touch with this society will be improved automatically by association. All right. Even in the bird society there are swans and there are crows, by nature, and the crows will never go to the swans, and the swans will never come to the crows. "Birds of the same feather flock together." Yes. Therefore society required. Unless you come to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness society, how you can develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness? The same principle. Satāṁ prasaṅgān... Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathaḥ (SB 3.25.25). Vīrya-saṁvidaḥ. It becomes very palatable, satāṁ prasaṅgāt, in the association of devotees, not otherwise.
Guest (1): Śiva-liṅga. You find it all over India, that, a summary of everything, that incorporeal form, jyotir-rūpa, incorporeal. Jyotir-liṅga, the Hindu svarūpa.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. You are bringing something else besides Bhagavad-gītā. Just try to understand. We are preaching... This International Society for Krishna Consciousness, we are preaching...
Guest (1): But you have to understand the relation between the two.
Prabhupāda: That's all... That we understand very nicely. It is not that I have to learn from you. We know it very well. But you should know that we are preaching Bhagavad-gītā.
Prof. Kotovsky: Yes, well correct. As I have already said our approach, the approach of people today, new era of knowledge everywhere in the world...
Guest: Try once more.
Prof. Kotovsky: Try once more. You are right. And also nobody would believe in anything without argument.
Prabhupāda: No, arguments are allowed.
Prof. Kotovsky: Yes, arguments. Nobody would believe because it was written in this or other script. Evidence, evidence and evidence has to be given to believe. And may I put one question to you? Have you many branches of your society everywhere?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prof. Kotovsky: Where is your main center, and where are the branches?
Prabhupāda: Main center...
Prof. Kotovsky: Of Kṛṣṇa consciousness society.
Prabhupāda: Of course, I have got about fifty-five branches.
Prof. Kotovsky: Fifty-five.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So I have made my main center in Los Angeles.
Interviewer: As confirmed by all the Vedic scriptures and by the great sages in the disciplic succession, He has a body made of eternity, bliss, and all knowledge. God has infinite forms and expansions. But of all His forms, His original form, His transcendental form, is as a cowherd boy. A form which He reveals only to His most confidential devotees. So go the teachings of Kṛṣṇa as laid down in the Vedic literature. And of the sages in the disciplic succession, which I mentioned, one is our guest for this conversation today. He is His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, founder of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, foremost teacher in the West of the Kṛṣṇa philosophy, which, moreover, he teaches not only by word, but by example. He came to this country in 1965 on orders of his spiritual master. As a Kṛṣṇa disciple, he is the present human exponent of a line of succession going back five hundred years to the appearance in India of Lord Caitanya, and beyond that, to a time five thousand years ago when Lord Kṛṣṇa Himself was on this planet and His words were recorded. Welcome, sir. What is Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means that every living being, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa has got many expansion. That is called personal expansion and separated expansion. So separated expansions we are, we living entities. But although we are very intimately connected with Kṛṣṇa, somehow or other we are now separated by contact of material nature. So we have practically forgotten that we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Actually that is the fact. And because... Just like a rich man's son. Somehow or other, he has forgotten his father, and he's loitering in the street as a poor man. But actually that is not his position. He has forgotten simply. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we are trying to invoke that original consciousness that he's part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa.
Karandhara: Yes Prabhupāda. Those are all... All the different envelopes are from the different departments, Spiritual Sky, Mail Order, Iskcon Media.
Prabhupāda: So you keep it in this envelope. Then I shall see.
Karandhara: Printing of the books is our most, one of our most important activities. And if you will study our, the society, ISKCON society, you will see that it is growing very fast, more and more growing now all over the world. The publishing of our books is growing also. Just like last year we had so many jobs, this year so many jobs. Next year at least twice as many jobs again. Your work will continue to increase more and more. (Japanese)
Prabhupāda: I have explained Kṛṣṇa, as good as Lord Buddha. (Japanese) You don't go to India to see the birth place of Lord Buddha? You do not go? In Kapila-vastu. Kapila-vastu, on the valley of Himalaya. Lord Buddha was prince.
Rūpānuga: Because originally Bali-mardana had a zone but now he's with ISKCON Press so actually he doesn't have a zone any more.
Prabhupāda: Oh. He has... So you are also out. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: That was my plan, therefore I came to America. So now you are so many boys, young boys, you have understood. So do it and give me relief. I remain in the background. Let me finish my Bhāgavata Purāṇa and those who are assisting in the writing, I'll be there (indistinct). That this institution, ISKCON will give to the world so many valuable jewels. There is no comparison.
Prabhupāda: There is no separation. Kṛṣṇa is the all-inclusive. Economic problem means eating, sleeping, mating or getting some money. So we are getting money. I have already given you account.
Guest (2): Yes, but... No. As far as ISKCON is concerned, maybe that is true. But supposing if you take an individual devotee, see, who is married and has a family and all that... He cannot...
Prabhupāda: There are so many married families. So many married families. He is married family, he is married family, he is married family. They have got children, wife, everything. There is no problem. The children are getting nice education, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, dancing, eating nicely.
Prabhupāda: We have published one brochure. (break)
Pañca-draviḍa: ...nicely in the Kṛṣṇa book about the sacrifices of Vasudeva. Where Lord Kṛṣṇa speaks and says to the assembled sages and ascetics that "Seeing you is the perfection of these eyes and perfection of life," and that "Those persons who go to the holy places only to take bath there or to see the Deities in the temple, they are no better than animals like the ass." I've been thinking that how you have presented this ISKCON movement as an assembly of devotees all over the world so they don't even have to go to the holy places. Simply by walking into one of your temples is like walking into Vṛndāvana and having the association of these great ascetics and sages, because your teachings are (indistinct). (break)
Prabhupāda: ...picture?
Indian man: For publications, there should be a central place.
Prabhupāda: In our ISKCON Press in New York, our men are working.
Indian man: That's fine.
Prabhupāda: We don't pay anything outside. We do everything ourself.
Śyāmasundara: This, this daṇḍa gives authority to the...
Prabhupāda: That gives authority.
Acyutānanda: Not in ISKCON.
Prabhupāda: That gives authority.
Acyutānanda: Not in ISKCON.
Śyāmasundara: Yes it does. In U.S. ...
Acyutānanda: No, no it doesn't. They do not respect sannyāsīs. (devotees all talk at once)
Śyāmasundara: Because you may not deserve it then.
Acyutānanda: Now I'm getting so... The thing is they may say like that but behind my back people are talking, saying this...
Prabhupāda: Now if they do not offer, obey the orders of the sannyāsī, then naturally... But that thing should be brought to the notice of higher or some official, president. Then steps should be taken, that if you cannot follow the rules and regulations, then you must leave. It is plain thing. There is no question of fighting. First thing is that a sannyāsī, leader, they should behave themselves according to the rules and regulations. And then ask others to follow. The others who do not follow, once, twice excused, three times please... Like that.
Devotee: I find an overall bad atmosphere in India. Resentment against many of the devotees. Party politics and different things like that are going on. It's not limited, it's going on all over India.
Devotees: That's so. Very heavy.
Śyāmasundara: Just like with, just like with Tamāla Kṛṣṇa. He has the respect of everyone because he is doing such a good job of managing, and he's just, he's doing, he's performing nicely his devotional work, and he's getting some results. That's respect. Then you'll get respect. Bali Mardana Mahārāja, he's built up ISKCON Press till it's just like (snaps finger) that, and everyone touches his feet when they see him. You don't find anyone disrespecting him, because he's performing his duties. You automatically get respect if you perform something nicely. Not just say, "Oh, the atmosphere's bad..."
Prabhupāda: Well, we have got many faults. He can find out. But generally, if I direct nicely, others will follow. That is the principle. I may have some fault, you may have some, that you are not liberated from. We are all trying to preach. So generally we should behave very nicely according to the rules and regulations, chanting sixteen rounds, rising early in the morning. Particularly maybe there is some (indistinct). So generally with our, general rules are (indistinct). First of all rising early in the morning, he cleans and (indistinct) performances. So these things are followed, chants sixteen rounds, then everything is there.
Prabhupāda: And that is spiritual world. The attraction for young boy, young girl is there also. They are also enjoying their company. Everything is there. But there is no such thing as pregnancy and abortion. Here people do not want that, pregnancy and abortion. But they are forced to do it because there are so many inebrieties here. That thing is minus in the spiritual world. They are also attracted by the bodily features of the women. There is attraction, but they are more attracted by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Therefore this bodily attraction of woman does not affect them. Just like if you have got better attraction, you don't care for the lower attraction. The attractions are there. The body of the woman is very beautiful. But men are not so much attracted with the body of the woman. They are more attracted to Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. These are described in the Bhāgavata. Here also, practically we see, those who are attracted by the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, they are not very much attracted with the bodily features of the women. Is it not?
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So attraction is there, but better attraction. Life is there, better life. Everything better, superior. Superior energy.
Brahmānanda: You've, said that our society ISKCON is like a sample of the spiritual world.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Brahmānanda: We develop our attraction for Hare Kṛṣṇa; we lose our attraction for sex life.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktiḥ... That is the sign of advancement of bhakti. If you don't be... I was explaining this. If you don't be detached to these material things, then you should know that you are not advancing in spiritual life.
Devotee (1): So then your process is imperfect. You admit. We're saying that there's a process which is perfect, and it's a process of receiving knowledge which is absolute, that is descending, and receiving that with a submissive attitude. And you're saying that by your sensuous endeavor with your different machines and instruments, you can ascend to the Absolute Truth. But the symptom of a person who is in knowledge is that he's satisfied, he's peaceful within, and we can understand that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness society is developing, is helping living entities, people, become satisfied within by receiving knowledge and actually coming to, to understand themselves and what's around them and so forth, whereas, let me ask you, how many people have actually come to this stage of peacefulness and knowledge, of being freed from the need for intoxication and so many different things, by your scientific method? In other words, has this process helped you to be actually filled with knowledge and bliss, or has it simply sent you into more questioning and more doubt until you come to a point of what we were discussing the other day, the Heisenberg's theory of uncertainty? Ultimately you come to the theory of uncertainty. So we're saying, when you come to this point, then you may as well just relax and try to have a submissive attitude, or any scientist, and try to receive knowledge which is descending.
Prabhupāda: Another, another thing is, he says, he says that he does not know what is there beyond this material nature. But he's still satisfied with that imperfect knowledge.
Śrīdhara Mahārāja: So much clear conception in such a small period of time, that they have acquired. This is a marvelous thing. The Dāmodara also, ISKCON has said in such a way, this Dāmodara Svarūpa and the Paṇḍita Dāmodara. Generally, these are for public, but minute reader only can differentiate.
Prabhupāda: Dāmodara. Svarūpa Dāmodara and Dāmodara Paṇḍita.
Prabhupāda: Yes, go on.
David Lawrence: "2.) to give the teacher all the information," uh, where were we, "he or she may need to find out more than the booklet can include, for example, to satisfy the really interested inquirer, 3.) by a total sense experience, the cultural gap, which may unnecessarily alienate the students and therefore hamper a worthwhile consideration of the movement, 4.) by offering a wide variety of approaches, the student will not feel that he is simply studying another textbook, 5.) a booklet on Kṛṣṇa consciousness without the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra in a living form would be an absurdity, so the contents of the teacher's pack: A.) the forty-five r.p.m. record of the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, B.) a glossy poster of Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa, C.) a map of the devotional centers of Kṛṣṇa, D.) a list of additional films, filmstrips and records likely to help the student, both from the center and from elsewhere, E.) sample literature from the organization, e.g. Back to Godhead, F.) a pack of Spiritual Sky incense, G.) a filmstrip,"—the enclosure of the filmstrip depends on the costing; R.E. departments are always very poor in this country—"H.) recipes and notes on the meaning of ārati, I.) several sheets of objections to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and the rebuttals of these objections, J.) suggestions for the teaching of the subject." Then I've gone on to say a little bit about the structure of the booklet. "Hopefully, the first section would establish the claims of the relevance of the spiritual life in 1973, and then the claims of Kṛṣṇa consciousness to be the true pathway to the eternal. This we would like to do by means of holding up a respected example of somebody who is already walking the path, e.g. an ideal way would be by the examination of the beliefs of George Harrison, and more especially of those expounded on living in the material world." Then go on to the history of the movement: "Lord Caitanya, Śrī Sarasvatī,..." apologies for the way I pronounce the names, "Śrī Prabhupāda's commission to the western world, the growth of ISKCON, the establishment of the London center," you know, to bring it locally, if you like, then on to "a typical devotee, his day..." This, I've said, will help to personalize the whole idea, you know. They can relate to the person concerned with this. Then "a section on the sacred scriptures of the Vedas, a background, and then quotations of frequently used texts. Then onto the beliefs of the devotees, based mainly upon the eight principles of ISKCON, and the Introduction of the Bhagavad-gītā As It Is." Our hopes are to, you know, work very hard from that section because it's, that introduction has got everything. I've been working on it a week, and I think, uh, I've gone back over...
Prabhupāda: The Bhagavad-gītā?
Yogeśvara: He asks: In our society do these four divisions also exist?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Yogeśvara: In ISKCON, are there these four divisions?
Prabhupāda: No, we are transcendental to all these material divisions. This is material division.
Yogeśvara: In that case, in which of these four divisions are we?
Prabhupāda: First-class. That is the beginning. But we go above the first-class. (break) Similarly, socially also, you must have four divisions. The reason is the material nature is working under three divisions, goodness, passion and ignorance. In our body also, the brain is working under goodness quality. The arm is working under the influence of passion.
Ambassador: Of course, from Sweden, I mean, it depends upon the nationality. People can go for three months without any visa.
Prabhupāda: No, that is different thing. But missionary visa. From missionary... When there's missionary, there is no question of any particular country, because we have got men from different countries. Our men, ISKCON representatives, they should be given missionary visa when they want to go. That is my... That much help I want.
Prabhupāda: A devotee.... Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura prays, tādera caraṇa-sevi-bhakta-sane vās, bhakta-sane vās. You must live amongst the devotees.
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: In our society he has come from America, he has come from Canada, I am from India, but we have forgotten all our family relations, we have nothing to do. We are in a different atmosphere. They can die for me, I can die for them, but we have no family relationship. He coming from America, I'm from India, he's from Canada, but the central point is Kṛṣṇa. You see? That is devotee. Tādera caraṇa-sevi-bhakta-sane vās, bhakta-sane vās. Therefore we have made this society, Kṛṣṇa conscious society. Anyone who is Kṛṣṇa conscious let us live together. We are also living together in a house—we are eating, we are sleeping, doing this, but everything in a society of devotees. Just like if you want to do some business if you become a member of the association, stock selling exchange, you can do better business.
Guest: But I also.... No, no, I mean I...
Prabhupāda: But you are also helping us.
Guest: (indistinct) ISKCON.
Prabhupāda: That I know, that I know. Therefore you have got such a nice daughter.
Prabhupāda: It has already come to an end. There is no government anywhere, simply chaos.
Yaśomatīnandana: Prabhupāda, do you think that the ISKCON will, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness will become a major religion in any country?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Yaśomatīnandana: Kṛṣṇa consciousness will become a major religion in any country?
Prabhupāda: So far the statement goes, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3), one can understand. But even one person understands, it is beneficial for many. Yes.
Yaśomatīnandana: Just like you understood your Guru Mahārāja's message, and the whole world is benefited.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (1): Many religious institutions, they welcome the rich peoples. Those who are coming by cars, and those who are coming gorgeously, and they are donating much to the institutions, they are welcomed by the people, management of these institutions. And this is your version. It is just contradictory. I accept your version. It is quite, quite right. And I hope our institution must do not like that. This ISKCON must not do like that. The well-to-do peoples who come, they'll get more... (break) ...more receptions, more congratulations. I request it must be your direction that our institution ISKCON must not do like this. And it is your... (laughter)
Prabhupāda: But one, one thing is that we are not living like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. (laughter)
Guest (4): But so far, most of them, perhaps, also wanted informations regarding, full informations regarding ISKCON.
Prabhupāda: ISKCON. That is a short-cut of "International Society for Krishna Consciousness."
Guest (4): No, that I know, myself. They wanted to know, in their own language, etc... And for that I meant...
Prabhupāda: No, it is, it is...
Guest (4): ...a sort of booklet in local dialect, in the Bengali. To be more propagated.
Prabhupāda: So I can give you the hints. You prepare a leaflet immediately, and we publish.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Devotees are... That is our life and soul.
Satsvarūpa: And the idea is that after they've finished their schooling, they would take part in ISKCON, preaching in some way as vaiśya or...
Prabhupāda: Yes. This preaching is also required, to make the groundwork. Because nobody's taking care. Just like some of the devotees, great devotees, they took the profession of becoming thief. They, in South India, it was done so. They took the profession of becoming thief. So a devotee is a thief? But he took. They took it. Because nobody was paying. So they organized a plundering party. "Plunder all these big men." Just like the politicians do. There is history. Yes. So even up to the point to become a thief, devotees took it. Yes. And the gopīs, even up to the point of becoming prostitute—for Kṛṣṇa. So for Kṛṣṇa's sake we have to accept any nonsense type of business. Or on the highest grade. Anything. But for Kṛṣṇa we have to do that.
Prabhupāda: Not kīrtana. Kīrtana, ārati, bhoga, lecture, so many ways. I have explained this.
Guru dāsa: Yes. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...big hotel, ISKCON Vegetarian Hotel.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Five star.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One of the big points is...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...five star hotel. It must be very gorgeous.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Namasyantaś ca māṁ bhaktyā nitya-yuktā upāsate.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is being done in every ISKCON center. Satataṁ kīrtayanto, chanting always Kṛṣṇa, namasyantas, offering obeisances. Everything in Kṛṣṇa. This is mahātmā.
Prabhupāda: Yajña means to satisfy the Supreme Lord. That is yajña. (break)
Bhagavān: ISKCON has a camera.
Yogeśvara: Should we take a picture right here? (break)
Prabhupāda: ...philosophy and the so many bogus swamis' philosophies, they are different. They offer some material benefit by their philosophy. "If you take this mantra, then your material life will be easier." People are captivated for material benefit.
Prabhupāda: Punished, but short cut. Karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām (Bs. 5.54). That is for the devotees, not for the nondevotee. Nondevotee must be punished. (break)
Hṛdayānanda: ...ask a lot that if there could be a Kṛṣṇa conscious society, would this mean to stop the industry and technology?
Prabhupāda: Industry, technology you can continue, but practically it has no use. (break) Just like there is the bench, you can sit down on the ground, and to sit down little comfortably you manufacture the bench. So for sitting down, you can utilize the ground, but you are unnecessarily wasting your time and manufacturing... This is industry.
Guest: (Hṛdayānanda translates) He's saying that he himself is involved with political leaders, and he said he's found that they're completely unwilling. They don't want to hear anything about the solution, and they're completely stuck to their own way. So what can ISKCON do...
Prabhupāda: They will suffer, that's all.
Hṛdayānanda: He said is there anything we can do in the political field to try to...
Prabhupāda: If they will not take, they don't want to hear, then they must suffer.
Hṛdayānanda: He's saying all the human race is suffering due to the bad points of the leaders.
Prabhupāda: Yes, because the rascal leaders.
Reporter: Swamiji, I have one other question for you, please. By definition, it seems to me anyway, and I think to other observers, and sympathetic observers at that, that you have asked your spiritual children to leave the outer world in the West and to go deep within the heart of ISKCON, within your heart and the heart of the Supreme, to accomplish what you've set as their goal. What about outer service to humanity in this incarnation?
Prabhupāda: This is the best humanity's service. They were all fools and rascals and we educated them for spiritual understanding. The material... If I think "I am this body," then I am no better than cat and dog. That is going on. "I am American." "I am Indian." "I am Hindu." "I am Muslim." "I am Christian." Only this bodily relationship. But suppose you have come to me, can I ask you whether you are body or something else?
Prabhupāda: Yes. And form all, what is to be discussed, what you are going to do, future. Just like you can discuss the German affairs, and find out how to defend ourselves. Of course, it is in the hands of the lawyer. Still, we can suggest...
Jayatīrtha: Take, for another example, there's the ISKCON Food Relief Program. Now, last year we discussed this, but no one was given any specific responsibility for it, and nothing really has been... Some money has been collected, but nothing major has been done. My idea would be that if there were a committee, say, of two, three men formed who would conjointly discuss and work on these projects, such as this ISKCON Food Relief, then more would get done.
Haṁsadūta: No, I think it's entirely an individual...
Prabhupāda: I think this Oath of Allegiance should be signed by the presidents also.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I just want to ask a question. We're in a... This meeting right now is concerning ISKCON and the GBC, but are we going to have some kind of meeting regarding the BBT? Because that's a very pressing matter also. Is that going to come in in these discussions, or are we going to have a separate meeting?
Prabhupāda: The BBT I am conducting personally.
Prabhupāda: The BBT, that, it should be: how the complaints should be stopped, and if they have no other income, then how things should be managed. That is... GBC should discuss.
Atreya Ṛṣi: In other words, Śrīla Prabhupāda, BBT is not outside ISKCON. BBT is part of ISKCON, and GBC is in charge of all ISKCON. But in this case, BBT, you have your personal attention, so since you are the supreme authority in ISKCON, you will...
Prabhupāda: Now, one thing is that sometimes before, Jayatīrtha suggested that if the ISKCON goes to liquidation, then the BBT also will be affected.
Atreya Ṛṣi: This is only a legal matter.
Prabhupāda: Legal matter. So I want to protect BBT.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is GBC matter.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I would like to ask a question. Just like in the... Now, this is one point to consider. Now, another point is, which we have put off until this meeting, especially to be considered in this meeting, is the moving of the Press. The moving of ISKCON Press. Is that...
Prabhupāda: That you decide amongst the GBC.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is that a GBC matter or BBT matter?
Prabhupāda: No. It is GBC, er, yeah, GBC.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I want to see, as the chairman of the BBT, that fifty percent is spent on printing and fifty percent is for constructing temples. That's all.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And who sees to that? The GBC?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The GBC.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means, practically speaking, the management... The BBT is separate from ISKCON for legal purposes, but the management of it is done by the GBC.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's nice.
Prabhupāda: All have contact. (?)
Atreya Ṛṣi: ...and then discuss this point.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is your GBC.
Jayatīrtha: All right. So that we'll discuss. The other thing we'll discuss is ISKCON Food Relief. And we'll also discuss the complaints about books in India.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the main...
Jayatīrtha: So these things we can discuss.
Prabhupāda: ...how these complaints can be stopped.
Rūpānuga: Well, in New York, for example, I just recently signed with Gopī-jana-vallabha Prabhu the papers on the farm. I signed conjointly with him on the farm because the officers had to sign, and we just recently had a thing in New York, ISKCON, Los Angeles, New York.
Prabhupāda: No, no, "sign" another thing. That I have signed, many.
Prabhupāda: Yes, if that is, they want to see practically, so practically we have got 102 branches and maintaining so many men, but we have no business.
Guest: No, ISKCON has done better than any government. In ten years what ISKCON has done, no other government has done.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Even in America they are surprised. In our Los Angeles temple our devotees are inquired by the store men that "How you are maintaining? You do not work. You have got so many cars. You are eating nicely. You live in very nice building. How you are provided?" They are surprised.
Bahulāśva: That was not completed, Prabhupāda. That's just a description of the courses. Yet we have to add a biography about Your Divine Grace, description of the disciplic succession, the activities of ISKCON, and how the college relates to ISKCON. That was simply an explanation of what courses would be given and how they would be structured.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. (break) How it will be conducted? The idea is very nice. Who has analyzed?
Devotee: What is to become of those devotees that leave ISKCON and take to breaking the regulative principles, and stop chanting sixteen rounds?
Prabhupāda: Explain.
Devotee: There are even brāhmaṇas in our temple who have left the temple and they are acting just like karmīs.
Prabhupāda: So they were wrongly initiated. We want recommendation from the authority, whether one should be initiated, but they gave wrong information. That is the defect of the informer.
Lalitā: I told you that Mr. Mani is Sai Baba's bhakta. So he is harassing, sending a letter and all. It's not especial any, that "Send to the member of ISKCON. They must leave." No. There is no report like that, but they are sending to say that he should learn and come to the Mr. Mani's bhakta of Sai Baba. (Bengali) There is nothing special. So if you are feeling better, then tomorrow or the day after tomorrow... (Bengali) ...can I mention that you must fit to see?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (Bengali) You know that? (Bengali) Between twelve to end of the day. (Bengali) Indira Gandhi... (Bengali) ...position plus spiritual knowledge, it will play wonderful in the world. (Bengali) Third-class, fourth-class rogue, they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Rājarṣayo. He must be royalty, at the same time great sage, saintly person. Then he will understand.
Prabhupāda: So we shall organize it very nicely.
Member: And our Mahāṁśa Swami is taking very much interest. He is often coming to Nellore. (Hindi) Last month the land was registered and the registration took place.
Brahmānanda: In the name of ISKCON?
Member: ISKCON.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. It's already done.
Prabhupāda: So in September let us go there.
Member: And in October you can see about Bālajī's festival, ten (seven?) days.
Prabhupāda: Oh. It is near?
Prabhupāda: Brāhmaṇa's qualification is there—śama, dama, titikṣa, ārjavam and jñānam, vijñānam, āstikyam, brahma-karma... (BG 18.42). Everything is there, the symptoms. So you are doing business, the occupation of the vaiśyas or śūdras, and how you are claiming to become brāhmaṇa? The... Who is a brāhmaṇa, that symptoms is there in the śāstra. And not only the symptoms, Nārada Muni has said, "If these symptoms are found elsewhere, then he should be accepted according to the symptom." There is no question of birth. Yasya hi yaḻ lakṣanām proktaṁ varṇābhivyanjakaṁ yady anyātrāpi dṛṣyeta tat tenaiva viniriset. This is Nārada's vision. So it is the symptom. Just like a doctor, medical man. He diagnoses according to the symptom. He finds out the cause. So symptom is required, not that a man has become diseased or healthy by birth. No. By birth he is born. Then again, when he develops certain types of symptom, so one has to take him in that way. That is śāstra. We are accepting, or giving them sacred thread, brāhmaṇa, after seeing that they are actually acting as a brāhmaṇa, not superficially. Therefore we take some time to see whether he can develop brahminical symptom. That is our process, not that anyone comes, and we give him a sacred thread and he becomes immediately brāhmaṇa. We don't do this. First of all give him chance. Let him chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, follows the rules and regulations. Then let us see. If he is actually serious, he has developed the symptom, then... This is the proper way. Even one comes from the brāhmaṇa family—he wants initiation—we don't give immediately, even if he is coming from a brāhmaṇa... That is a good facility, that he is born in a brāhmaṇa family, but the symptom is the first necessity. Either you are born in a brāhmaṇa family or śūdra family, it doesn't matter.
Indian man (6): (unclear)
Brahmānanda: What is that? The brāhmaṇas who come over from?
Indian man (6): From ISKCON center. We have a tendency (unclear)
Brahmānanda: Yes. So what is your question?
Indian man (6): So don't you think that the blame should not be, usually be laid on the Africans but on the whole...?
Jayapataka: There was a group of reporters who went to see the district magistrate, and they were asking him, taking interview about so many different things. So finally they kept asking about ISKCON because of our Māyāpura center. So he said, "Well, I can't say anything about that. I can't say..." Finally one reporter asked another very direct question about their staying here, this, that. And he said, "I have order from Indira Gandhi that the officers, that maṭha gaṁrami na.(?) No one, officer, should worry about ISKCON. You just do your own thing. So I can say nothing about them. I have got no authority to say anything about them. We've got this order from Indira Gandhi." Then the reporter said, "Oh, we can print that?" He said, "Please don't print that. Otherwise I will lose my job." So when the local Congress people heard that, they were very happy, our friends. So I think your visit did a great benefit.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Jayapataka: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...said that "Don't bother about ISKCON."
Jayapataka: Yes. In Bengali they were talking, maṭha gaṁrami na.(?)
Prabhupāda: (break) ...you said somebody is coming?
Girirāja: Oh, the Mahārāja of Udaipur.
Prabhupāda: Ah. So?
Akṣayānanda Swami: Price has risen and quality has lessened. (pause) Prabhupāda, you know the ISKCON centres you have started they are just like actually Vaikuṇṭha, they are so nice. Even the Gauḍīya Matha centres were not so nice. Just like an installation of Vaikuṇṭha. They're so clean and nice. (indistinct) ...help becoming devotees by visiting your centers. Becomes almost automatic.
Prabhupāda: Follow the regulative principles, it will remain, always Vaikuṇṭha. Otherwise again material world.
| Page Title: | International Society for Krishna Consciousness (Conversations, 1968 - 1975) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti |
| Created: | 20 of Dec, 2008 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=64, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 64 |