Interfere (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"interfere" |"interfered" |"interference" |"interferes" |"interfering"

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview with LA Times Reporter About Moon Trip -- December 26, 1968, Los Angeles:

Reporter: Do you feel that they would interfere with any experiments or persons from earth landing there or trying to land there? Say, even if they had some specific body change or came up with a spacesuit that would withstand any changes in temperature...

Prabhupāda: The first thing is that with this body you, neither you can land there nor interfere with their business. The first thing is. The scientists say that the temperature in moon planet is two hundred degree less than zero. Is it not?

Reporter: I don't know.

Prabhupāda: Howard?

Hayagrīva: It's very cold.

Prabhupāda: Very cold. So even taking the scientific statement, how you can live there if it is two hundred degree below the zero degree?

Reporter: Well I don't know unless they intend to land at a time that...

Prabhupāda: No. There is suggestion of the scientist that there the temperature is two hundred degree below zero. I have read some paper. So if it is a fact then how you can live? You feel uncomfortable even in the Arctic region within this planet. How you can go and stay there even for a few minutes where two hundred degree...

Reporter: Yes, that's an argument based on logic,...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interview with LA Times Reporter About Moon Trip -- December 26, 1968, Los Angeles:

Reporter: ...that there would be no contradiction there and in the case of say no interference from any moon beings, that I can foresee that there would be no contradiction there if it is achieved.

Prabhupāda: No. That means simply by your suit, if you... Just like if I got a nice suit and enter your port, New York or any port, but if the immigration department does not allow me, what can I do? Is that suit sufficient? You cannot enforce there. There are intelligent persons there. Suppose if I come, a very nice costly dress, in your port and if your immigration department does not allow, what can you do? There are intelligent persons there. How do we expect that simply by you have got suit, therefore you'll be able to, allowed to enter there? That is not sufficient qualification.

Reporter: I'm just trying to pin you down to a very exact statement if I can as to whether or not if they found the suitable spacesuit and did land, whether they would be interfered with.

Prabhupāda: Interfered... Interfered... Now you try to understand. You come from Europe or from India in a very nice gentlemanly suit. Does it mean that immigration department will allow you to enter the country? That means even if you have got suitable suit they may be opposed if you haven't got, I mean to say, proper qualities and other bona fides.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So the arrangement was to punish him like that. So when the arrangement was made, everyone became frightened that "This man will be killed." So they presented the fact to Caitanya Mahāprabhu that "He is Your devotee. He has served so much. Now he is in danger. If You kindly send some note to the king, he is also great admirer, then he may save his life." Caitanya Mahāprabhu refused, "Oh, he has misappropriated state's money, and you want Me to approach a pound-shilling man, king." He was not seeing even the king. "Oh, this is not possible for him. Let him be punished. He has taken money from the state. I don't wish to interfere." Then nobody could request him anything. So some way or other, the news approached the king, and the king was astonished, "Oh, why this arrangement was made for killing him? I never ordered. Stop him." Then he sent his special messenger, that, "Stop this and call him. What is the matter?" Then he said everything, that, "Your son, I could not pay his money. He wanted money, and he made this arrangement." So, "Why did you take money in this way? Do you think your salary is not sufficient to provide you? All right. Don't do this. All right, I excuse. And I increase your salary double. Don't do this again." So was he saved in his life, his salary was increased. And he was going to be killed. Although Caitanya Mahāprabhu never desired, but these things happened.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 21, 1970, Surat:

Prabhupāda: You simply try for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which, without your trying, it will never be fulfilled. You have to voluntarily try for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, revive it. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). You do it—because you have to do it. Kṛṣṇa can force you to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. But He doesn't do that. He doesn't interfere with your independence. He says, "Do it." Therefore you have to try for it, not for other things. Other things, already there are. For the birds and beasts there is no problem for eating. Why your problem should be? Just like a prisoner. He has no problem for eating. The government supplies. He has only problem that he should not be criminal. That is his problem. He should try for that: "No more I shall become a criminal." That is the real activity. But he thinks... If in the prisonhouse you say, "What shall I eat?" no, eating is already there. Even you are a prisoner, the government has supplied his eating. Similarly, God has supplied everyone, cats and dogs, for eating. Why not for you? You have created your own problem. Real problem is how to develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ (SB 1.5.18). Kṛṣṇa consciousness is that.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1971, Gorakhpur:

Prabhupāda: He never surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. I wrote him letter. "Mahatma Gandhi, you have got so much influence. You just preach the gospel of Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavad-gītā. Now we have attained svarāj. You don't be in politics." But he was still in politics after attainment of svarāj. And his assistants became disgusted because he was interfering, and therefore he was killed. And that is open secret. If he would have surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, "All right. Now I have worked for svarāj. My people have got svarāj. Now let me work for Kṛṣṇa,"... He never did that. You cannot say that he surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. He should have taken immediately sannyāsa and preached Bhagavad-gītā if he was actually surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. What did he do for Kṛṣṇa? We have to know from practical point of view. I'll tell you another story about Mahatma Gandhi. My Guru Mahārāja invited him in our maṭha, Mahatma Gandhi. So Mahatma Gandhi inquired... The, my godbrothers went to invite him. "What you are doing in your maṭha?" They replied that "We are worshiping Lord Kṛṣṇa." So he inquired, "Are you pulling on charka?" They said, "No sir," He said, "Charka is my God. If there is no charka, I am not going there." He said like that.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversations with Sannyasis -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:

Pañcadraviḍa: In your lectures you emphasized two aspects must be there, jñāna and renunciation. So some knowledge is there, but that part of the difficulty is that with most of the devotees in every temple in India, is that they have not renounced these dirty things completely. They still are attached to sense gratification even on gross levels. So whether a sannyāsī or anybody interferes with their sense gratification, they tend to not oblige because they are attached to doing things the way they want. And they think because they are in a foreign country here, a long way from America where the standards are very rigid, that they can do any manner of nonsense and nobody will check them. And if you try to correct them, then they will only do it behind your back. We have seen this, with the sweet shops, with rising early, anything that interferes with them doing as, exactly as they please, they don't want to oblige. And this is in Calcutta, this is in Bombay, and it's happening here in Vṛndāvana. It's not something that's isolated here to the palace, but the devotees all over, they are just behaving on the level of sense gratification, and that's why there is so much rajas guṇa in the temples. So much rajas guṇa.

Prabhupāda: This is a fact. So how to correct it. If you do not correct yourself, how you can correct?

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. As soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice," "Yes," Kṛṣṇa says, "yes, you go." Just like nobody is interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Do you think everyone is interested? So. They want to enjoy this material world. Otherwise what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Kṛṣṇa is so kind, He gives him opportunity, "All right, you enjoy like this." Just like some of our students, Kṛṣṇa conscious, sometimes go away, again come back. It is free will, not stereotyped. Just like one goes to the prisonhouse, not that government welcomes, "Come on. We have got prisonhouse. Come here, come here." He goes out of his free will; again comes out, again goes. Like that. Kṛṣṇa-bahirmukha hañā bhoga vāñchā kare, nikaṭa-stha māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare (Prema-vivarta). The police is there. Just like the police car was there. We have nothing to do with it. But if you do anything criminal, immediately you will be arrested, under police custody. The māyā may be there, but māyā captures him who is not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Therefore, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te: "Anyone who surrenders unto Me, māyā does not interfere anymore."

Conversation with Mr. Wadell -- July 10, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No, God has given you intellect to become good, but because you disobey God, you have become bad.

Mr. Wadell: But if God is all-powerful and He cared to use His power...

Prabhupāda: No, He does not interfere with your little independence.

Mr. Wadell: This is the point which you were trying to...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā God says that "You surrender unto Me." That means, "If you like, you surrender." God is not forcing, "you must." He is not forcing.

Mr. Wadell: Well, that's exactly what I meant. We are agreed. And...

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that He does not do. Otherwise, otherwise, there is no meaning of being part and parcel of God. God is fully independent, and we are minute part of God. Therefore we have got independence. That independence is minute, but there is. So if God interferes with your independence, then you are no longer part and parcel of God. Therefore God says that "You do this." Now, I misuse my independence. I do not do it. Therefore I am bad.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: "I am in material world."

David Lawrence: Yes. "Living in the material world."

Prabhupāda: That is a very nice song.

David Lawrence: And he sat there, and he was praying. And I didn't interfere. And he came out of the room after having turned the record player off. I said, "Well, you know, what were you doing in there?" And he said, "This, this record has been a complete experience to me." And that, if George could know that... It was tremendous, really tremendous to see this happening. George's record is so devotional, you know. It's really beautiful.

Prabhupāda: I talked with him about this material world in his house... When?

Śyāmasundara: Oh, it was last August, I think. Or July.

Prabhupāda: Last... I went to his house at Henley on the Thames.

David Lawrence: Henlent (?).

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So they were feeling the... Actually, in India... In our childhood, we know. Every Indian felt very secure. They never expected that Britishers will go. They were so sympathetic. And now they... This is the pulse felt by that statistics officer. They are not very much satisfied with the present system of government. British administration was very much appreciated by the Indians. Even Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura appreciated. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, he has written in something, somewhere, that "The Britishers also very nice because they don't interfere with the religious affairs." So as soon as they changed their views and tried to divide the Hindus and Muslims, the British Empire lost. According to Queen's declaration, the Britishers pledged that "They will not interfere with your religious affairs." Later on, for political purposes, when they interfered with this Hindu-Muslim question, then the British Empire lost.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes. But the people who rule India now have a western education mostly. The Indians who...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Perverted, converted. Just like Nehru. Nehru was western-educated. He was educated in London. But he hated everything Indian.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: But at the present moment, they are encroaching upon others' right. And that is sinful, and he's punishable. Just like every living entity has got the right to live at the cost of God. But the human being is interfering with the rights of living of the animals. They have got the right. As human being has got the right to live...

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes. I agree.

Prabhupāda: ...why not they? National. National means a living entity born in particular country. So at the present moment, the national means only human being. The animals are not nationals. They are being sent to the slaughterhouse. So this kind of sinful activities are going on. Therefore renunciation means to give up these sinful activities. That is real renunciation. Otherwise, you cannot renounce anything. You have to live. And that is allowed at the cost of God. Everything belongs to God. You are son of God. So you live. But don't encroach... Mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam. That is the instruction of Īśopaniṣad. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ (ISO 1). Everything belongs to God. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. So you have got the right to enjoy what is allotted for you. Don't encroach upon others' right. This is renunciation. But they are encroaching upon others' right. Especially the human society. And that is the cause of all troubles. Because they have no God consciousness, they have no sense about God, and there is no sense about next life... What is your opinion about life after death?

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Balance, this is balance. Let us... You, you take some students and train them as medical man. But I am training to become preachers. Why you interfere with my business? You do your own business.

Mother: Well, my son is my business.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So your son, your son is not dependent on you. He's independent.

Mother: Yes, but he was...

Prabhupāda: You want independence. He's already independent of you.

Mother: He was snatched out of the university by your people going round the universities. He was in university.

Prabhupāda: But... That's all right. If some of our student goes to the university... There are many students...

Revatīnandana: Now wait a minute. We didn't snatch Michael.

Prabhupāda: We don't object to that.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, Dr. Suneson -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Professor: But nobody has interfered with him?

Haṁsadūta: Well, nobody knows.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Haṁsadūta: I was just telling him about this devotee we have in East Berlin. We have a devotee in East Berlin who's chanting, and keeps a shaven head.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Paramahaṁsa: Do you know Professor Kotofsky?

Professor: Kotofsky? No.

Paramahaṁsa: In Moscow. He's a Sanskrit... Head of the oriental studies.

Professor: Kotofsky?

Paramahaṁsa: Yes. He's uh... Śrīla Prabhupāda, also met him one time in Moscow.

Haṁsadūta: But he's not a devotee.

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. You have got free will, but must utilize it properly. That is free will. Free will means to utilize it properly. That is free will.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So people... Sometimes Kṛṣṇa interferes in the free will?

Prabhupāda: Ah?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Our free will.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: God interferes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is Kṛṣṇa's special favor. Because by your free will you are going to hell. If Kṛṣṇa interferes, that is Kṛṣṇa's special favor. Just like a child is going to touch fire by free will, and father, "Eh, don't do it." That is his special favor.

Devotee: Jaya.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But it's called causeless mercy.

Prabhupāda: Ah? Causeless mercy. His mercy is already there, but we are denying the mercy. That is the defect of material existence.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is a very big business here, Śrīla Prabhupāda, medical profession. They have this American Medical Association. They control the whole business. Even government cannot interfere. So they choose students, and they keep the supply so low that the demand is always high. That is why the price always increases. It's terrible.

Karandhara: To stay in a hospital now costs about $150 a day.

Prabhupāda: That is a sort of punishment of sinful activities. When you fall sick, it is due to sinful activity. So you are punished.

Karandhara: It's a very high price.

Rūpānuga: Pay fine.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The more dangerous is the disease, you have to pay more. (break)

Karandhara: ...very mercenary, hospitals...

Prabhupāda: Everywhere mercenary. Lawyers...

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 10, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: What's the use? Why shall I think like that? Let them go to hell, and let us go back to home, back to Godhead. Why shall I waste our time? We can advise them, "Do this. You will be happy." If they do not take, then we don't bother anymore. We are not social welfare worker or political worker. We are worker for Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...in this world that people are suffering for want of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Let us try to make them Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is our only interest. Otherwise we have no interest in this material world. Let them do their own duty and suffer or enjoy. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, samo 'haṁ sarva-bhūteṣu (BG 9.29). Samaḥ. Samatā. We are not social worker or political worker. We are Kṛṣṇa worker. So we give advice to them that "You become Kṛṣṇa conscious and all problems will be solved." That is our duty; and to advise him, to convince him, to give him all facilities. Still, if he does not take, then we are not going to see how long he will suffer, how he will stop. Let them do their own business. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) "Give up all nonsense engagement. Just become My devotee," we say like that. But if somebody does not give, give up, also not, then Kṛṣṇa also does not interfere.

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That's all. Godless. They must be like that. Gandhi was a student of Bhagavad-gītā—never taught about Kṛṣṇa. This is his knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā, Bhagavad-gītā without Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee: They want the material after killing the source. After killing the cows, they want milk. After...

Prabhupāda: Gandhi was approached by the Hindus that "You are doing so much for the Mohammedans. The Mohammedans are obedient. So why don't you stop this cow killing?" "How can I interfere with their religious?" Just see.

Devotee: This is...

Prabhupāda: "Cow killing is religion." And he was such a fool that if somebody said that "Cutting the throat of others is my religion," he would allow, "Yes, you can do that."

Jayapatākā: Go this way, Śrīla Prabhupāda? (break)

Devotee: ...proof that the cause of cancer is beef-eating.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 18, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, Indian.

Dr. Patel: African, after all. Americans must be first. (static interference) ...politically conscious Africans.

Prabhupāda: We have got about ten African devotees now in Nairobi branch. (break) ...to material sense enjoyment. Such persons cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (break) ...avoid the dictation of the senses. But when a man is able to dictate the senses, then he is gosvāmī.

Dr. Patel: That is?

Prabhupāda: Gosvāmī.

Dr. Patel: "One who is lord of go."

Prabhupāda: Yes, senses. In that stage he cannot give up. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartante. When one sees that "This is better quality than the other," then he takes. Unless... Because superficially... Suppose because for becoming Vaiṣṇava, he has to undergo so many austerities. So ordinary man cannot find out that this is better life than that. So when he understands, "This service is not good; to serve Kṛṣṇa is good," then he can give up the service of māyā. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartante. Just like an ordinary servant, he is serving in your house, but if he gets some more salary in other's house, he gives it up. That is required. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartante.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Dr. Wolf: Śrīla Prabhupāda, may I venture very humbly to this opportunity of saying something I've experienced so much with people, that they would say, "Oh yes, we are ready to respect the spiritual values, but we live in this real world, in this material world and so we would rather not have the spiritual values interfere with it, settle everything in the material sense."

Prabhupāda: No, they, what they are saying, "real world," that is unreal.

Dr. Wolf: They don't realize that.

Prabhupāda: No, their knowledge is so imperfect, they're taking asatyere satya kori māni. Asatyere, you understand Bengali? Asatyere satya kori māni, accepting the untruth as truth. Asatyere nitāi-pada pāsariyā, ahaṅkāre matta hoiyā nitāi-pada pāsariyā, asatyere satya kori māni, by forgetting our relationship with God and being proud of their so-called... (break) That motor car is not your life. That is being misguided. Everyone is thinking that this body, motor car, is everything. But within, the driver, he's starving. So how long he'll carry on this motor car. So first of all take care of the driver who will protect this motor car nicely. And if the driver is a nonsense, he's starving, then how can I expect the car will go very nicely. It will create disaster. Disaster means... Suppose you have got very nice car, Cadillac or, many good cars there are, Rolls-Royce, and he smashes. Then he'll get ordinary car. This human body is smashed... (break) ...hāntara-prāptiḥ, you enter into the dog's body, finished.

Conversation with the GBC -- March 27, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: So that... First of all manage these things. Then you will, it will be included in the trustees. First of all show your capacity that you have managed these things very nicely, these two things. Why there should be complaint? How you can solve it? And why the temples should be maintained by collection of the BBT? It is meant for printing and constructing temples. Why should (we) violate the purpose of the Trust? So first of all you manage these two things. Then, if you want, you can come. If the problem remains the same, then what is the use of increasing heads?

Atreya Ṛṣi: What is obvious is that Prabhupāda's interference has always come because we have not done our jobs right.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Atreya Ṛṣi: He would very much like to...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the real purpose.

Atreya Ṛṣi: He would... As soon as we show that we can...

Haṁsadūta: Work together.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Work together and manage nicely, he wants to.

Prabhupāda: Now, so far the... Just like in Germany. They unnecessarily take the money while there is creditor, printer. There was no need of keeping money. Go on paying them. That was my policy. I instructed Karandhara that whenever there is collection, go to pay. That arrangement I made with Dai Nippon, that "I shall go on paying. You don't ask me." So he never asked me. You know that.

Room Conversation with Journalist -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, total human being, 400,000 species. Altogether, 8,400,000 species of living entities. So these are coming, evolution, by the laws of nature. You cannot stop it. The laws of nature, you cannot interfere. In this way we come to the human form of body, and especially civilized human being. Supposedly, it is the Aryans. The Aryan family, they are the topmost civilized group amongst the living entities. Now, in this life one has to enquire about himself that what is the difference between me and the dog? Why I am claiming a better position than the dog? What is the difference? The difference is that a human being, if he endeavors, he can understand his real constitutional position and he can understand God also. God. Therefore in the human society, civilized human society, there is some sort of religious system. It does not matter whether it is Hindu religion, Muslim religion, Christian religion, or Buddha religion. There is some religion in the civilized human society.

Radio Interview -- May 25, 1975, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: And they are big, big educationist. Anyway, there is no such department which deals with the transmigration of the soul. That is the defect of the modern civilization. So there is transmigration of the soul. By evolution, by transmigration of the soul, we have come to this human form of life. Now here we have to decide again. Because we are part and parcel of God, a small particle of the same quality... So God is fully independent. We have got also a little independence. So God does not interfere with our independence. Now here we have to decide which way again we shall go. We have come by the evolution, by nature's way. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Nature has brought us and given us a chance, whether we shall go to our original spiritual life or we shall remain in this material world by changing body one after another. That is to be decided. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is educating people that "Stop your so-called material advancement. You come again, back to home, back to Godhead."

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: There are four division of your body—the head division, the arm division, the belly division, the leg division. If you engage the head for walking, that is mistake, and if you engage the leg for thinking, that is mistake. Similarly, there are different types of men, combine together, and it will be nice body, the leg will walk, the hand will protect, the head will give instruction, and the belly will get energy by eating food. Those divisions are required. Not that everyone is all. No, there must be division of labor. So that is described, how to make civilization perfect, who is going to hear and take it. Cātur varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). If you can adjust things, you can utilize things, then everything will be useful. And if you do not know how to utilize things, then everything will be useless. Take instruction from Bhagavad-gītā and make everything useful. Then the human society will be perfect. Otherwise you'll go on manufacturing ideas, you'll never be successful. Because nature's law is working, you cannot interfere with the nature's law. That is not possible. You may think yourself very much advanced in science, but nature's law, you cannot interfere. Just like now there is movement, man and woman, equal.

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Yathā mat tathā path. This is going on. Everyone will say something, and it is all right. However nonsense it may be, it is all right. Even Gandhi followed that philosophy. Therefore he invented one, another philosophy, nonviolence, which is impossible. When Hindus approached him, that "You have got so much influence over the Mohammedans, so why not stop cow killing?" he said, "It is their religious principle. How can I interfere?" Just see.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. Kṛṣṇa orders in Bhagavad-gītā, go-rakṣya.

Prabhupāda: And he is considered to be a great scholar in Bhagavad-gītā, and when cow protection was requested, he said that "How can I do it? It is their religious principle." And he is a great big scholar in Bhagavad-gītā. All nonsense, going on. Whole world is full of nonsense, mūḍhas, beginning from Gandhi to any rascal, all of them, rascals. Perhaps it is the first time we are detecting, "Here are all rascals." It is first time. Then we are enemy of everyone. We call everyone rascal-Gandhi rascal, Vivekananda rascal, Aurobindo rascal. So actually they are, but people are thinking, "These people say all big, big men rascals? Therefore they are rascals."

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa's desire. If Kṛṣṇa desires, He can do anything. So a devotee does not interfere with Kṛṣṇa's desire.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We know that Kṛṣṇa desires everyone to become Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is... Kṛṣṇa says. That is His desire. Sarva-dharmān pa..., mām ekāṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. That is Kṛṣṇa's desire.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So Kṛṣṇa is not causing everyone to forget Him.

Prabhupāda: No. Kṛṣṇa's desire is open to everyone. We don't accept it. That is our obstinacy. Kṛṣṇa says "There is soul." We do not say. "No, there is no soul." This is our position. Kṛṣṇa says, "Within this body there is soul," and we don't accept. We'll argue. This is our position. He is giving direct instruction, "Yes, there is soul," but we don't accept. Disobedient.

Cyavana: But if Kṛṣṇa knows that we will suffer in this material world, why does He let us go away from Him? Why doesn't He keep us there?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Prabhupāda: There was no Indian leader. That was occupied by the Mohammedans. They were deteriorating. Yes. Besides that, Indian mass of people, they were never trained to become nationalist. They thought, “Let anyone become king. It doesn’t matter. We… Let us live peacefully, and whatever due tax we shall pay. That's all.” When the Mohammedans came the people did not think that these are foreigners. "It does not matter, Mohammedan, Hindu." But they did not think so far that gradually it will deteriorate. Even Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, he has favored the British government because they did not interfere with the religious affair.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (entering car) Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Over the Muslims.

Prabhupāda: No, Britishers. The Muslims interfered. They wanted to propagate Islamism. Not all, some of them. But Britishers, although they were spreading Christianism, still, outwardly they were neutral about religious affairs. So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura preferred that "Britishers are good. They do not interfere with our religious affair." So the idea is that India—you may say primitive or whatever you want—they wanted to make progress of the soul. They did not care who is ruling. So "Whatever tax is due we shall pay. Let us do our own business." That was India's attitude. They never thought in terms of nationalism. That was never educated. They were never educated.

Morning Walk -- October 28, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: Then how you are killing the animals? (break) ...eat meat, therefore you are killing poor animals. Why you are interfering others' life? (break) ...the best park here. (break) Here there is no such park.

Brahmānanda: Really?

Prabhupāda: Nice park. (break)

Cyavana: ...agricultural.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. All opulent.

Cyavana: Yes. All fruits...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Cyavana: ...and flowers.

Jñāna: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Kenya the great majority of people live in the country rather than the towns.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. "Country is made of God, and city is made by man." That is the remark by poet Cowper.

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: Then what is that? That is not accident. You are doing that. How you say it is accident? Why do you put this rascal question? As you are doing otherwise, it is coming otherwise. How you can say it is accident? Accident means nobody interferes; it comes. That is accident.

Harikeśa: Well, it may not be an accident, but it proves how we're becoming superior to the nature. We can control it. More and more, every day we're controlling.

Prabhupāda: How you can become superior? Nature has already given you, and then you are able to act. Where is your superiority? Huh?

Devotee (2): That is a good point.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...given by God. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanam. You have no intelligence even, so that is given by God. (Hindi) Let them become devotees. Why these old men, they are not coming? They are still after money? Amara ajñaya guru hana tara ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128), Caitanya Mahāprabhu says. So you have come to this country. Do something good for these Africans. Let them become devotee. Where is that attempt? The white men, they also came to exploit them, and you have also come to exploit them. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "No-para upakara." Upakara kara. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... They are not so advanced; make them advanced. That is real cooperation.

Morning Walk -- November 12, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No. No. māyā means something false. Nobody makes anything. Everything is made by... Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). Kṛṣṇa is the creator of everything. māyā is also created by Kṛṣṇa. So just like government creates police department. But police department is made for that person who violates the laws of God. The police department is creation of government. Similarly, māyā's business is to capture, arrest the criminal who has gone against God, capture him. Mūḍha janmani janmani (BG 16.20). Mam aprapyaiva. This is the arrangement. Nobody is independent. Everything. Therefore it is called sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. So māyā is also Brahman. māyā is also Brahman. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Why māyā is different from God? It is creation of God. Mama māyā, Kṛṣṇa says. Mama māyā. So how māyā can be... The difference is police cannot arrest the president. Now it has been proved in the law. The president, the prime minister, they cannot be interfered by the police or law. That is good judgment. If the head of the estate is also interfered by police, that does not look well. So this judgment is very nice. Therefore in English constitution the first word is "The king can do no wrong." You cannot accuse king of doing wrong. Whatever he does, it is all right.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So according to quality, guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13), there must be division and then simple life. The real aim is tam abhyarcya, how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Everyone is.... Brāhmaṇa is guiding, kṣatriya is ruling, and vaiśya is producing food, and śūdra, they have no brain; they are helping. In this way the society is very peaceful, and everyone is advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is India's civilization. Now, due to this association of the rākṣasas... Even up to Mohammedan time this civilization was being continued. Mohammedan did not touch the Indian culture. Sometimes by, what is called, fanaticism, there was fight. Not like this. The Arjuna.... Aurangzeb began this. Otherwise, from, what is called, the first emperor? Akbar. Akbar, Jahanghri, then Shajahan, there was no trouble. They did not touch. Even there was some marriage connection. They want to remain as kṣatriya king, that's all. The other things were not interfered. So instead of a Hindu kṣatriya, the Musselman kṣatriya. People were satisfied: "A kṣatriya... We have to work. Somebody must be king." So in this way the Indian people accepted the Britishers. "All right, you remain king. Don't interfere." But later on, to exploit the whole country, they began to plan.

Morning Walk -- April 10, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Envy means the cow has got right to live. He does not allow the cow to live. That is envy. You cannot understand this? Suppose you are walking. You have got right to walk, I have got, and if I kill you, you cannot walk. That is envious. Everyone has got right to live. Just like the camel. God has given their food. They are accustomed to eat these thorny twigs. So Kṛṣṇa has given that. Let them eat and live. Why should you interfere with his living condition? (break) Do not interfere with others' right. Why should you? (break) ...think we shall take the car in Bombay?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I think it's a good idea because there is no suitable place to store it here.

Prabhupāda: No, we can make a suitable place. What is that?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It may take some time. I don't.... Actually I haven't been to Bombay myself. I haven't seen the land at Juhu. Is there a suitable place for...?

Prabhupāda: There is many suitable place.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The reason was that because whenever you come back to India, you always come back to Bombay first of all, so as soon as you come back to India, you'll have facility to use your car. Otherwise we should make arrangements for another car for Bombay also?

Prabhupāda: No. Another Mercedes?

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: One thing immediately inform Rāmeśvara. In the Bhagavad-gītā yesterday they have edited "cattle-raising." But not cattle-raising. Cattle-raising means to grow and killing. That is the.... Means the rascals, they have edited.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, and we're.... (interference)

Prabhupāda: And "protection of cows," clearly.

Guru-kṛpā: Chapter Eighteen, Bhagavad-gītā, that the vaiśyas work...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya.

Prabhupāda: Ah, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. Immediately inform them.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Okay. I noticed that also. I thought it was strange, some time back. (break)

Prabhupāda: Hayagrīva edited. He thought, "cattle-raising." Not "cattle-raising," but the word.... There.... It is mistranslation. It is go-rakṣya, "giving protection to the cows." Especially mentioned, go-rakṣya, not otherwise. The animal-eaters may take other animals, but not cow. They can take the pig, goats, lambs, rabbits, so many others, if they at all want to eat meat, birds, these so many. There is no such mention that "Animals should be protected," no. "Cows should be protected."

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: But we call them rascals. What is more insulting than...? We call them rascals. A tiny student.... A student, he is learning something. But "You are rascal. Nothing at all."

Guru-kṛpā: He didn't call us a rascal.

Prabhupāda: Mūḍha. (interference) ...rejecting Kṛṣṇa, you are rascals. We don't say; Kṛṣṇa says. Because you are not taking Kṛṣṇa seriously, you are mūḍha. And when he wants to know what is mūḍha, rascal.... (interference)

Guru-kṛpā: ...in this lifetime.

Prabhupāda: There is no question of becoming perfect. Try to become perfect. That is perfect. Don't become.... (interference) Remain always student and try to become perfect. That is wanted. Guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsana (CC Adi 7.71). (break)

Guru-kṛpā: That is what Rahūgaṇa, he asked Jaḍa Bharata, "How have you attained such a perfectional stage?"

Prabhupāda: Rahūgaṇaitat tapasā na yāti na cejyayā nirvapaṇād...

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Just see. Rascal priests also so sinful. Yes, they're supporting homosex. So when the priests are sinful, the public is sinful, how the church will go on? Churches, they are expecting church must support abortion and child killing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, it is progressive. They feel that is the progressive way to think.

Rāmeśvara: And the church should not interfere with their.... That is their decision.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is personal life.

Prabhupāda: This is the rascal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (break) You say no meat, fish or eggs, no gambling, no intoxicants, no illicit sex, and we are all coming gladly. That means you're offering something alternative. They're not offering any alternative.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they have nothing to give. Simply denial, how it will act?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes when I talk with Christians, I tell them that "The reason that you're not feeling any bliss is that you're not following the way Jesus lived. We are living like him. He was wearing robes, he was living simply. But you, you're living in big fancy buildings with so many washing machines and this machine, and that your whole life is complicated."

Prabhupāda: Grievous folly is that they are disobeying the Ten Commandments.

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, no. You make a choice; you can change it. But as soon as you change it, God knows what you are going to do. This is very common sense. Suppose you are honest man; I entrust you with something. But as soon as you become dishonest, immediately I withdraw my interest (entrust?), because I know what you'll do. So you have got little independence. You are put into certain position, but you can change it at anytime. So your position is, actually, you are eternal servant of God. As soon as you change it, then your suffering begins. In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find, after instructing Bhagavad-gītā to Arjuna, Kṛṣṇa is asking, "Now I have instructed you everything. Now whatever you like, you can do." Yathechasi tathā kuru. That independence you have got. Kṛṣṇa, or God, does not interfere with the little independence He has given to us. And because we are part and parcel of God, God is fully independent, so we have got little portion of independence. So by misusing that independence, we can desire to become God, and we suffer.

Arnold Weiss: Isn't it within the nature of our souls to have...

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Devotee: Moon, yes. Interfering with some...

Mādhavānanda: Preaching is never easy.

Satsvarūpa: Prabhupāda said on one tape that.... Somebody said it was difficulty. He said, "When there's fighting, you can't expect it to be easy." (break)

Makhanlāl: There are many different levels of pure devotional service?

Prabhupāda: Pure devotional service is one. So long you are not on the pure platform, there are many. (break)

Makhanlāl: ...between the neophyte devotee who is following the principles.

Prabhupāda: Neophyte devotee is not on the topmost platform. He's learning. (loud foghorn blowing in background)

Makhanlāl: So a neophyte devotee who's following the principles of sādhana-bhakti is still considered pure devotee?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Kern: But to make a person ask is not the right kind of society. Shouldn't, if a person be the first-class citizen and therefore independent and therefore seek his own so that he could serve God by his own intelligence and his independence.... There's no virtue to be giving; it's more of a virtue to receive.

Jayādvaita: He's suggesting that because we are requiring that a person come to us for food, that somehow this is interfering with his independence.

Prabhupāda: Where is that independence? With his family he can come and take food. What is wrong there? We say that we should not..., we are not simply supplying food. Anyone who is coming, he is getting spiritual education. Not that it is a free hotel. No. It is not that. We give them spiritual education. You come here, you take your shelter, you take your food and learn how to be first-class man. That is our program. Don't be implicated in sinful activities. Be God conscious and live here with us comfortably, take your food. We have got this nice palace.

Kern: Doctor, do you recruit people to come?

Prabhupāda: Yes, we are inviting everyone come. We have no such distinction.

Kern: I have four young alcoholics I'd like to send over.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Hmm? No, I do not wish to interfere. You manage now. I want to see that you are managing without my interference. Now practically I want to concentrate more, or absolutely I want to do that. But sometimes this mismanagement gives me too much anxiety. I do not wish to see that somehow or other we have built up a nice institution, on account of lack of management it may be hampered. That is my only anxiety. Now what is the position of the Gurukula in Texas? Our Gurukula, I have repeatedly said that we want simply to know English nicely—English is international language—and Sanskrit just to read and understand our literature. But we don't find any progress in that way.

Jagadīśa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, when you say that we don't find any progress, do you mean just on account of Pradyumna's testimony? Or do you see beyond that, also, that there's no progress.

Prabhupāda: No. Pradyumna, of course, personally saw. But when I was in Dallas I could not find any good progress.

Jagadīśa: How do you judge that progress?

Prabhupāda: By the chanting of the Sanskrit verses. Not all of them could do it very nicely. It is only practice, and.... Apart from Pradyumna. So his complaint is that he cannot write even 1, 2, 3, 4, up to ten.

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: "What you want, silver money, gold money or paper money?" It was their duty. If you say "I want gold money," they will pay in gold money. Not only it is written in the paper, "I promise to pay," but the promise was kept. If he wants, "Give me payment in gold," they will pay. And now, to keep gold, hoarding gold, is illegal. So you cannot ask. This is going on, legalized cheating. You have to accept this paper money. That's all. Don't ask for gold. And there is no honesty at all. I can take paper money for my convenience sake, but how you can force me to take paper money? That is not honesty. So dishonesty begins from the government. You cannot keep gold. If you have kept gold, there will be searching, and if it is found that you have gold, you'll be punished. In India it is now being done. There is no freedom even at your home, in your private life. Formerly, any common man could keep gold according to his desire. There was no such thing. Sometimes he would hide it even within the ground, because there was no bank. At least in India this was the practice. If you have got some gold, you keep it somewhere confidential within the ground so that it may not be stolen. So everyone should have right to keep his money as he likes. Why government should interfere? Therefore you see the Bhāgavatam, rājanya-dasyu-dharmaḥ.(?) The government men will be like rogues and thieves. By law they will take away. It is now going on in India. I think here it is also? You cannot keep gold. Why I cannot keep gold? If I have secured gold, I can keep it. I want gold. You write, "I promise to pay," so there must be gold coins. I must have. So many difficulties will come in the kingdom of māyā gradually. It is already come. The eight items... What are those items?

Room Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: "God" means He must possess all the wealth. Just like in Persia you have got so many wealthy persons, but nobody can claim, even the Shah cannot claim, that he possesses all the wealth. That is not possible. Persia. Do you follow what I say? So this is one of the items, that God is the richest, or He possesses all the wealth. Similarly, He possesses all the strength, He possesses all the beauty, He possesses all knowledge, and He is the renouncer also, the most exalted renouncer. Although He possesses so many things, He is renounced. Just like this universe is the property of God, but He has given to you, all the living entities. "Now you wanted to enjoy, enjoy it to your best capacity." He doesn't interfere. "All right, you go on." And we are trying to enjoy this material world to our best capacity. Just like in Iran, you are trying to enjoy by exploiting the oil. Similarly, somebody is exploiting. It is all God's property. He doesn't interfere. "All right, enjoy." This is renouncement. His property, He does not come to interfere. God knows how this universe is made. So many big, big scientists, they are trying to understand what is the constitution, how this universe is made, how it is created. Nobody knows, but He knows.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes, God has given you enjoyment, but you cannot enjoy yourself, alone. There are other sons, they will also enjoy. If you interfere with other sons, then you'll be punished. God's son is the lamb, and you let him enjoy, you also enjoy. But if you interfere with his right, then you'll be punished. That is God's law. Sarva-yoniṣu, God is not only your father, he's father of the lamb also. So if by your brute force you want to kill the poor lamb, then you'll be punished. This is natural. You have got your food, you produce your foodgrain and you eat. Why should you eat another animal? God says that annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14), you must eat to become strong. But that does not mean you'll eat another brother. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā (ISO 1), whatever He has designated, you eat like that. You are human being, you can produce food. You grow foodstuffs, rice, wheat, fruit, flowers, vegetables. That is allowed. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni, you produce anna, why should you kill an animal? And offer it to Kṛṣṇa, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (BG 9.26). He never says that "You give Me an animal." Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam. So you produce patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalam, and offer to Kṛṣṇa, and then take.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but they cannot explain what is this controller; therefore they disbelieve. Just like yesterday we were discussing that atheist class, that they are by chance there was lusty desires and there was pregnancy and there will be child. So we say, "No. Daiva-netreṇa. These things have been arranged by superior authorities." This is destiny, that what is already arranged by superior authority, that is destiny. You cannot change it. A man is ordered to be hanged by court justice, you cannot change. He is to be hanged. And they will say, "By chance he will be hanged."

Jñānagamya: Sometimes something happens to interfere with that. He gets a reprieve from the governor, or the rope breaks, and they only hang him once.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing, but first thing is that if one is ordered to be hanged, he has to be hanged. Destined. But these people, they do not see who has ordered because they do not accept authority. They will say, "It is by chance." They have not seen who has ordered, who is that authority. They cannot explain; therefore they say "Chance."

Meeting with Endowments Commissioner -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa has explained everything, all confidential. Now consider about it, think about it, and do whatever you like Yathecchasi tathā. The liberty is there. Whatever you like you can do. Kṛṣṇa will not force. He can force, but He does not interfere with little liberty. Then he becomes stone. Living entity has got little liberty because he is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. When Arjuna was decided, naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā. Kṛṣṇa gave him liberty. Yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). But he voluntarily accepted, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava.

Harikeśa:

arjuna uvāca

naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā

tvat prasādān mayācyuta

sthito 'smi gata-sandehaḥ

kariṣye vacanaṁ tava

(BG 18.73)

Prabhupāda: This is real religion.

Harikeśa: "Arjuna said: My dear Kṛṣṇa, O infallible one, my illusion is now gone. I have regained my memory by Your mercy and I am now firm and free from doubt and am prepared to act according to Your instructions."

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is real... That is translated in Bengali,

Room Conversation -- August 25, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: I am sitting in this room and if by force you drive me away, I shall go to another room. Because I'll have another room. But because you have forcibly driven me away you are criminal. Similarly, a living entity is ordained to live in a certain body for a certain period. If you kill, that is the interference with his staying there. You are criminal.

Indian man: Yes, that is true.

Prabhupāda: The soul is never killed. Never killed. But because you have forcibly driven away from that body, you become criminal. That is the philosophy.

Indian man: Yes. Now, assuming...

Prabhupāda: So you cannot do that.

Indian man: Assuming that, everyone...

Prabhupāda: Not assuming. This is the fact. (laughter)

Room Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Government. And selling at good price in Europe for taking their hormone. The monkey's hormone is injected or replaced so one regains his sex power. They are very sexually strong.

Harikeśa: That must interfere with that monkey's spiritual life. That interferes with the spiritual life of the monkey? Because then he can't die in Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: It is further from them. Everything is being done by superior arrangement. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). People should learn all these things by practical example instead of becoming irresponsible and without any obedience to the superior law. They should learn it, but they have no intelligence. They think, "We are all free." Wherefrom the monkey is coming, why there are so many varieties of life, how it is...? What do they know? Nothing. All bluff, vague explanation and that is going on in the name of science. This is the position. All rascals. Fortunately we have got this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Bhagavad-gītā. All knowledge. First-class knowledge. (break) ...eternally-enjoyment. For him everything, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Everything ānanda. He has no such thing that this is harmful, that this is useful. That is Kṛṣṇa. Because nobody can do harm to Him and neither in the spiritual world, anyone is harmful. Everyone is advanced devotee. Even the tigers, they are also devotees.

Garden Conversation -- October 14, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: Yes, inexorable. Yes, yes, inexorable.

Indian man (1): And nobody can interfere?

Prabhupāda: No.

Indian man (1): God alone.

Prabhupāda: God can do anything. He is all-powerful. That is only...

Indian man (1): But does He interfere... Does he intervene in our actions?

Prabhupāda: Who?

Indian man (1): I mean, God, does He...

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. God interferes if you are a devotee. Otherwise, you have to undergo the laws of nature. Karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām (Bs. 5.54). Karma, according to your karma, you are conducted by the laws of nature. Just like if you touch fire, the laws of nature is: it will burn. Even a child touches the fire, there is no excuse. The laws of nature will not excuse a child, that "This child does not know it has touched the fire. Let it not be burned." No. Ignorance is no excuse.

Garden Conversation -- October 14, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. Nobody can play anything. Magician also can make.

Indian man (1): Interfere with the laws of nature.

Prabhupāda: Nobody can. It is all foolishness, all rascaldom. They are all rascals and who understands miracle, they are also rascals. Laws of nature cannot be changed.

Indian man (1): There may be several laws which we don't know.

Prabhupāda: There are many laws. What do you know? You do not know anything. (chuckles)

Indian man (1): We do not know. Then I say those miracles may be possible according to those laws that we don't know.

Prabhupāda: There is no miracle. If you touch fire, it will burn, that's all.

Indian man (2): Swamiji, is bhakti-mārga enough to have liberation?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhakti-mārga... First of all, you must know what is liberation. What do you mean by liberation?

Room Conversation About Gurukula -- November 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: For feeding. Feeding. Give them sumptuous food so that they may become healthy, nice food. (laughter) Yes. That is also wanted. Children, they must eat sufficiently. Not overeat. Even overeat, that is not wrong for children. And that will be exercise, by going to Yamunā and coming? That will be bodily exercise. This is nice. Do that. Strictly follow. There is no scarcity of space there, yes. Vṛndāvana is holy place. And there is no government interference, so increase it. Bring more student from all over the world. Then it will be unique. And you also make scheme to get Indian children from aristocratic family. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭo 'bhijāyate (BG 6.41). Those who are born in high-class, rich family or brāhmaṇa family, they are not ordinary. But there is no brāhmaṇa family now. So at least the richer section, they can be induced to send their boys to learn Sanskrit and English and Bhagavad-bhakti. They can do business, and whatever they like, they can do later on. But these things, they should be... Father-mother should be careful. (Hindi conversation) ...just attract all good family children. (Hindi) ...working, they will have to live. They cannot. They cannot become paṇḍita or spiritually advanced men. They have to work. But if the richer section, they get their sons, good character, good devotee. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says, ko 'tha putreṇa jātena yo na vidyā na bhaktimān: (?)"What is the use of such son who is neither devotee nor learned?" Kāṇena cakṣuṣā kiṁ cakṣuḥ pīḍaiva kevalam.(?) What is the use of blind eyes? It is simply troublesome.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Every salesman must be aggressive. That is a qualification.

Rāmeśvara: They say we are interfering with the right of the person. He doesn't want to speak to us, but we insist that he speak to us.

Prabhupāda: That is salesman's qualification. Nobody is dying for our book, but if we can create market for our book, that is our qualification.

Rāmeśvara: So then they will say, "Then that means you are not a religion. You're simply a business."

Prabhupāda: Yes. From business side... Religion means we are expert in every way. We can cheat also very nicely, which you cannot do. That is religion, expert in everything. Ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇaḥ. And Kṛṣṇa says that "Amongst the cheaters, I am the greatest cheat."

Haṁsadūta: They think religious people should be fools.

Prabhupāda: Yes, but our religion is not that. The most intelligent man can be religious.

Conversation During Massage -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That is another laziness. For good cause one should.

Rāmeśvara: They are thinking, "What if the people want to be Communist? Why should we interfere?"

Prabhupāda: That means cowardice. They have no conviction that Communism is dangerous, godlessness.

Rāmeśvara: They are forgetting how dangerous it is.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: Now they have a policy called detente, where... It means that they try to become friendly with the Russians and do exchanges.

Prabhupāda: All economic.

Rāmeśvara: To ease the tension.

Prabhupāda: Pound, shilling, pence: "Money, bring money."

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (interference) ...because it is genuine.

Mr. Rajda: Genuine, correct.

Prabhupāda: Therefore even little effort is giving great benefit. But we must know what that effort should be. Everything is there. We must take advantage of it. But we are not taking advantage. Now we have got good government, very nice. Now you should take advantage of the privileges which are there in India. The Bhagavad-gītā is there. If you take direction from Bhagavad-gītā, then you will get. The whole human society will be benefitted. That you do not know. That is the defect. Even big, big leaders, they profess to student of Bhagavad-gītā, but they do not know anything. Although it is clearly stated. Who is the leader in India who does not know Bhagavad-gītā? Even Morarji Desai, when he was to be arrested by leaders, government, he said "Wait, let me finish my reading of Bhagavad-gītā," is it not?

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That everyone will say.

Bhakti-caru: (break) "And is it possible that she did not know of his interference from her own house in exercise of executive authority in many matters appointments? Did she not see newspaper reports of vast gatherings often paid for and brought to her family by her chief minister to provide an audience and popular build-up for the Raj Kumar, as he came to be called. Those of us who knew her father are sanguined at Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru could never have allowed himself to entertain a dynastic order. When Mrs. Gandhi was elected president of the Congress, we recall that her father first disapproved of the proposal made by S. K. Patila at a Bombay meeting." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...is to bring her in limelight again, Indira.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now it's purposely there. Actually, that's a fact. It seems like now they are purposely not...

Prabhupāda: Mentioned.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...mentioned. Out of sight, out of mind. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...release her on account of mercy of Ānandamaya(?).

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Sharma: But I do not want to bring in Raj Kapoor and Lata Mangeskar seriously acting in regard to Lord Kṛṣṇa. I think these people with the God's face, they could themselves very efficiently do these things, without the interference of these people. I think we have (indistinct) a drama, and educated the common man to understand that God, and at the same time depicting the life history of Lord Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Caitanya-līlā can be played very nicely.

Guest (1): And it is maintained at a very remarkable level standard. Performance is very good. This could definitely go in as an Indo-Soviet cultural group, and it would be really educating the masses in no time. It is almost as good as showing them a film show or a cinema.

Prabhupāda: The difficulty is the government has got the cultural department. So they will patronize Lata Mangeskar, but they will not give us money to go there.

Guest (1): That is I am telling. And the associated with ISKCON's...

Prabhupāda: No, I will say, not Lata Mangeskar, any dancing party, they will patronize. But if we go for preaching Bhagavad-gītā...

Conversations -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He does not like to interfere with his guru. He is doing everything.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe Girirāja should be called up. When they come, then we can read this article out loud. Says here, "Asked whether his city..."

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Asked whether his city..."

Prabhupāda: "His city"?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: What is that? "Asked..."?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Says, "Asked whether his city would not meet the same fate as Auroville..." It's not his city.

Prabhupāda: He can say that he has taken sannyāsa for his popularization?(?) (Surabhīr Abhipālayantam enters, offers obeisances) Did you consult this article with others' consultation or by whimsical joke?

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: It could be...

Conversations -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now immediately a vote should be formed. You cannot do independently. That will not be allowed, anything. In Bengali there is a word, pañce mili kare kārya, hari duḥkhi nāhi lasa(?): "If you do something, combined together, five men, then whether you are defeated or you are victorious, there is nothing to be shameful." Hari duḥkhi nāhi lasa. So you are doing everything independent. We do not like to interfere with your business. You become angry. So that should be stopped. You cannot be allowed. You'll be (indistinct). It has no meaning. (pause) What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is a... I don't know if... You gave this to the press? This was given to the press. "Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. ISKCON Candrodaya City at Śrīdhāma Māyāpur."

Prabhupāda: What is this? Not from our letter given?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says, "The birthplace of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu in the district Nadia, prepared under the direction of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda and by his disciples, His Holiness Surabhīr Abhipālayantam Swami, ISKCON Māyāpur Project architect and director of construction; His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami, ISKCON Māyāpur project president and Governing Body Commissioner; Śrī Patita Pāvana dāsa Brahmacārī, Bhakti Śāstrī, ISKCON Māyāpur; and the editors of Back to Godhead magazine, ISKCON Press, Los Angeles, California."

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But I may interfere. The... In the Bhagavad-gītā is there such statement, that "Service to humanity is service to God"? Is there any statement?

Mr. Dwivedi: Daridrāṇāṁ bhara kaunteya... (?) I think there is somewhere...

Prabhupāda: There is no.

Mr. Dwivedi: But this particular I remember, daridrāṇāṁ bhara kaunteya...

Prabhupāda: This is... This is wrong theory. Don't maintain this. This is a very wrong theory. Just like "Service to the leaves is service to the root." Is it not wrong? What do you think? Like a tree, so where the service should be given, to the root or to the leaf?

Mr. Dwivedi: The root.

Prabhupāda: Then why do you say like that? And Kṛṣṇa says openly, mam ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. He doesn't even recommend to worship demigods. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajanty anya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20). So these are imagination, concoction. They are not authorized. Vivekananda advocated daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā hundred years ago. So India is full of daridras. What Mothilal can do? What Vivekananda can do?

Morning Talk -- April 25, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: "Yes, all right, I don't interfere with your business, but not... You leave my kingdom. Get out."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Kali said that "You have given me nowhere to live now, 'cause in your kingdom there is no such place."

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Therefore I say, get out from my kingdom. I don't care for your religion or business, but you cannot do within my kingdom." And that is king. If I have to flatter you for vote, "Yes, whatever you like, you can do. Give me vote," is that government?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: I follow this. To accept me as guru I have to flatter you—I don't follow. If you want to hear me, then you become my disciple. Otherwise go to hell. Don't want. Here many big men came. And big men means the businessmen, big... I refused "If you cannot follow the instructions..." When they are in office there is some income. Nanda, he is driven out from office after some time, at least twenty years. Then he was given post. Long time. What he has done? He has taken from Haryana government some crores of rupees and he has made his own statue, fifty thousand. He has made his own statue. (laughs) He appreciates his own activities. This is their politician. Just like our Bon Mahārāja. He has done so. He does not wait for his death. He knows, "After death everyone will forget me. So let my, let me make my own statue, a tīrtha in this āśrama." He wanted to...

Morning Conversation -- April 29, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...in Calcutta. That is bathroom, very slippery. Anyway, why shall I take the risk?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we don't want that.

Prabhupāda: So hold meeting daily and chalk out program. Do very diligently everything so I can see that things are going on nicely without my managerial interference. That will make me happy. And I'll go on writing. There is... (pause) You are feeling all right?

Upendra: Yes, Prabhupāda. I was just thinking of... When you were speaking about not eating... We take pleasure in watching you eat. It is our pleasure to see you eat and enjoy the prasādam. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...mentally to keep the brain, little fruit, milk, is sufficient. So I may live only on fruit or milk. There is no difficulty. What is the use of taking cāpāṭis and rice?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of course, when you have a taste for it, then you should take.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is practice. As food value, fruits and milk is sufficient.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Habit is there also.

Prabhupāda: All the great saintly persons in India, they used to live in forest. What food? Only fruits and milk. Sometimes they use to take grains. Otherwise milk and... Simple milk is all food, cow's milk. I want to take cow's milk. This is all rubbish.

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But what did the British think of that principle?

Prabhupāda: British gave liberty about our culture and religion. They never interfered. That was their credit. They knew it. If they interfered with their internal affairs, then they will be lost. That was Queen. She guided them.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They were expert like that.

Prabhupāda: No, they were very good politician. (pause) I can say, in the British period there was no scarcity, and leniency. I recall the way. Didn't require... And when they like... With three hundred rupees they were so happy. Now you calculate that three hundred rupees means ten thousand. So where is that ten thousand rupees?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, only the wealthier...

Prabhupāda: For children one anna tiffin is sufficient. One anna. (looking at monkeys) You see?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, a whole family of them. This is their feeding place, the garbage can here. They don't come when they see people, though. Around all the holy places I always see a lot of monkeys and cows in India. Is there some reason, special, about... I mean, cows, there's obvious reason, but what about the monkeys? Why are they around the holy places?

Letter from Yugoslavia--'Books!' -- June 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "So I made arrangements with the book store to fulfill his desires. The next, University of Pristina. After riding all night in the train..." This boy is going through a lot of hardship all along. He said sometimes for two or three days he did not sleep. "After riding all night in the train I arrived on the campus at four a.m. in the morning. Before anyone could interfere with me, I studied the school very closely. In two hours' time I knew where all of my targets were. So when the professors and students arrived at 6:30 in the morning..."

Prabhupāda: 6:30 in the morning?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "I was ready for them. My first meeting was the most important one."

Prabhupāda: It means that they do... These communist countries, they work so hard.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: They rise up, 4:30, prepare for going to work. Then work begins at 6:30. Is it not more load than the ass? Still they have to do that, by force.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Says, "I was escorted to the Dean's office. He was also the chairman of the Philosophy and Sociology Institute. He requested both standing orders for the Institute."

Prabhupāda: (laughs) They are getting standing orders, all.

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, you can... You can do.

Mr. Myer: I'm sure Mahārāja, if he likes it, I will try to develop.

Prabhupāda: He'll not interfere.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda says you can do.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He'll not interfere.

Akṣayānanda: That should be very nice.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Akṣayānanda: That's very good.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Akṣayānanda: He's very experienced.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I started this movement with forty rupees. You know that Scindia Steam Navigation Company?

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And also I took darśana of Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma, and Lord Balarāma's club looks like it will destroy anyone (Prabhupāda chuckles) who dares to interfere with Kṛṣṇa's plan. He has a very big club, silver, all silver. And many people were coming, many pilgrims. Just you were asking me whether there's many people coming as when we were previously here. There are as many. The temple was very much crowded with people having darśana. I could tell that some of the people were pāṇḍās, the guides. They have to bring everyone to this temple, because the people want to see Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma Mandir. People were making a lot of expressions of joy to see Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma. They were very surprised to see how beautiful They were appearing. And also Rādhā-Śyāmasundara is very big attraction, because that boy dresses Them very beautifully. All the Deities look very nice today. They look especially happy about this science conference, I think. If we do this in Bombay, also Śrīla Prabhupāda, it will be tremendous success. I think that Kṛṣṇa postponed...

Prabhupāda: Bhakti-caru? (Bengali with Bhakti-caru)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It might be that Kṛṣṇa postponed the opening of Bombay to get you..., so that you could have enough time to get a little health. It could be.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) He has arranged alone.

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why it is? Because some of the devotees may leave by next week. So Bhagatji wanted to have a feast when everyone was here. And I told him to arrange then for Thursday, which was yesterday. But he said that that was not sufficient time. Therefore then I told him, "Then if you can't arrange for Thursday, then the best day is Friday, because Saturday and Sunday are the more important days of the conference." I advised him that the feast should not be held simultaneously with the conference, but he said that there was no... (break) In other words, I attended the lecture and the program, but I came out on account of Bhagatji's invitation. The lecture should have been over by one according to their program that they published. But on account of the scientists' arriving late, they did not want to push anyone. This was the whole point, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I think it's just a, what would you call it, a circumstantial mistake. It was not planned that the two would..., one would interfere with the other. And the conference is in no way being interfered with. It's going on.

Prabhupāda: That I want.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The conference is going on. Anybody who's required in the conference is there. But some of the sannyāsīs and GBC's are choosing to go to Bhagatji's. But the conference people who are involved, they are all at the conference, and many devotees are there also. I think it's all right.

Prabhupāda: All right.

Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: We can find out. And that can be given. It won't interfere with your treatment at all.

Dr. Gopal: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about appetite?

Dr. Gopal: Anything more?

Prabhupāda: What I can say? You belong to some Vaiṣṇava sampradāya? Eh?

Dr. Gopal: Yes, of course, I am Vaiṣṇava, but not by initiation.

Prabhupāda: No, your family belongs to which Vaiṣṇava sampradāya? There are four sampradāya.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There are four sampradāyas: Madhvācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī...

Dr. Gopal: I don't know myself, because I know only this much, that I am a man and a Hindu, that's all, bāniyā by caste, by born in their family. Profession, my serve you.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where is your family originally from? Which area of the country?