Innocent (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"innocence" |"innocent" |"innocenti" |"innocently" |"innocents"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: innocence or innocent or innocenti or innocently or innocents not people

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- February 1, 1968, Los Angeles:

Interviewer: Utopian-like, where there is no harm, no..., all is good, and...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, this our process is chanting. It is very innocent. If you sit down and chant with us, you have no loss, no harm, but there is great gain. You see? By chanting, you gradually cleanse your heart and you can realize what is God. That is the greatest gain. Human life is meant for knowing God. The animals, they cannot know, although the bodily demands of the animal and the human being are the same. The animals, they sleep; man also sleeps. Animal, they eat; man also eats. The animal, they are also afraid of some enemy; man is also afraid of some enemy. The animals, they mate with the opposite sex, and men also do that. But what is the special significance of man? He can understand about God, but the animal cannot. Therefore if a man does not take to this understanding, he is no better than animal. A man who has no God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is no better than animal because he has no other business than the four principles of bodily demands.

Morning Walk at Stow Lake -- March 23, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: He conquered all over the world almost. He went to India also. So he met one robber. So he arrested, Alexander. He was king. The robber said, "Why you have arrested me?" "Because you are robber." "Oh, you are also great robber." When Alexander was charging him that, "You have done this," oh, he charges, "You have done this. I have entered a private house; you have entered a private state. So you are a big robber." Then he released him, "Yes, what is the difference between robber and me?" And Alexander, from that day, he stopped his conquering propaganda. "Alexander and the Robber." The robber proved that "You are a big robber only. But because you are big robber, therefore you are called 'Alexander the Great.' But my business is the same as yours-encroaching upon others' property. Why do you think that I am culprit and you are innocent? You are also culprit. If I had power, I could have punished you. And you have now power, you are trying to punish me." So Alexander the Great was convinced by robber.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 27, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: He's a very good man. Everyone who will come to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness will become good man, even he's a bad man. That is the influence of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Sarvair gunaiḥ tatra samāsate suraḥ. All godly qualities will develop in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the test. Now, our students, nobody can compare with their behavior, with their character, with their innocence. Everything nicer. So don't worry. Simply go on chanting. Everything will be all right. Don't worry.

Jadurāṇī: Doesn't sound like you're concerned about temple affairs.

Prabhupāda: No. It... That's all right. For the time being you don't touch. You chant and everything will be... Soon you will be in good health. Then you will again work. Yes. Śāradīyā, you are painting? No. All right, you finish your school. You are going to school?

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Śyāmasundara: It's said that as one progresses more in spiritual life he becomes simpler and more innocent, but in the beginning he may have had to comprehend it on some verbal level in order to (indistinct)

Dr. Weir: I often used say to my students that I've got to remember that if anything in life to realize the difference between simple and complicated, which is objective, and easy and difficult, which is subjective. In other words sometimes a simple thing may be terribly difficult for a person to get hold of. Whereas complicated things he may find quite easy.

Prabhupāda: So your student has to follow your instruction. That means accepts authority.

Dr. Weir: But even so, even if he's working something out for himself, it has that same..., to some people it comes terribly easily.

Prabhupāda: No. No. To accept authority does not mean one should be blind. But the real source of knowledge comes from authority.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Goodness means you can understand things. Knowledge. You can know that there is God, that this world is created by Him, and so on, so on, so many things, actual things. The sun is this, the moon is this, perfect knowledge. Even not perfect, he has got some knowledge. That is goodness. And passion means he identifies with this material body. And he tries to gratify his senses only. That is passion. And ignorance means animal life. He does not know what is God, how to become happy, "why I am in this world." Just like you are taking one animal to the slaughterhouse, it will go. But a man will protest. So this is ignorance. The goat, it is to be killed after five minutes, but if you give him a morsel of grass he's happy, he's eating. Just like a child. You are planning to kill her or kill him, he is happy, he's laughing, because innocent. That is ignorance.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Bob: What about the people in the...the innocent people?

Prabhupāda: The animal is very innocent. You cut its throat, it won't protest. So innocent is not very good qualification. The animals are all innocent. Therefore you get the chance of cutting their throat. So just... To become innocent is not a very good qualification. Our proposition is one must be very, very intelligent, and then he can understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa yei bhaje se baḍa catura. So to become innocent, ignorant, simpleton is not very good qualification. Simplicity is all right, but one should not be unintelligent.

Bob: Can you tell me again what intelligence is?

Prabhupāda: Intelligence means one who knows what he is, what is this world, what is God, what is the interrelation, he's intelligent. If he does not know what he is... The animal does not know what he is. He thinks that he's body. Similarly, any man who does not know what he is, he's not intelligent.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1972, Sydney:

Śyāmasundara: So actually most people are innocent, but if the...

Prabhupāda: Not innocent-rascal. Innocent, another thing. Innocent, if he is innocent, if I say, "You do not know, this is..." "Oh," then he will accept. But he will protest, a rascal. Innocent will accept. Therefore, the more one is innocent, simple, it is easy for him, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The more one is rascal, it is very difficult.

Devotee (2): Is one called Māyāvāda philosophy?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee (2): Māyāvādīs, are they thinking like that, Kṛṣṇa is...

Prabhupāda: Yes, "He is ordinary man. A little better than me, that's all." That Dr. Frog's philosophy. Atlantic was "That's all right, may be little one feet more than this well, that's all." He cannot imagine that millions of wells will be not compared. That he cannot begin. He says, "Yes, it may be bigger, say one foot bigger, two feet bigger. All right, ten feet bigger, make compromise." That's all. He will never think that beyond his estimation. Never think. He'll simply calculate, "All right, if not one, two feet, three feet. All right, ten feet." And the friend will say, "No, no, it is very, very great."

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: And all the innocent, they're all misled.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is, that is our protest. That you remain a rascal at home. Why you are misleading others?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They're spoiling themselves, but, not only that, they want to spoil others also.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is their business. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). (pause) Kṛṣṇa so easily simplifies the matter. They'll not accept it. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptir... (BG 2.13). In two lines, he solves the whole biological problems. In two lines. That is knowledge. Minimum words, maximum solution. That is knowledge. And talking nonsense and no meaning. Books, volumes of books, talking nonsense and there is no meaning. Is that knowledge?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's ignorance.

Prabhupāda: Ignorance.

Morning Walk -- April 28, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Making more confusing to the innocent.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Chewing the chewed. One scientist explained to some extent. The matter remained the same. Another rascal comes. He explains again. And the matter remains the same. What advancement you have made? Nothing. Simply some volumes of books. That's all. Just like there is petrol problem. What your this explanation will help? You have created problem. Now you are dependent so much on petrol. If the petrol supply is stopped, then what these rascal scientists can do? They cannot do anything. It is stopped. Now there is scarcity of water in India. What the scientists can do? There is enough water. Why the scientists cannot throw this water where there is scarcity of water? It will require the help of cloud. That is God's manipulation. You cannot do anything. Water is here, so much water. Why don't you make this sand fertile by bringing this water? Fertilization made by supplying water in the desert.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Paramahaṁsa: Not only did Christ tell them not to kill, but he also, he himself said that all his disciples were like sheep and animals and he was their herder. So he gave the example that we are all like, we should be like innocent animals. So many examples he gave like that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I remember this in Pittsburgh last year Śrīla Prabhupāda, in that meeting with the bishops, there was a Christian father, a Catholic father. So the question raised that Śrīla Prabhupāda said, "Thou shalt not kill," in the Bible, in the Commandments.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I was invited by some Christian priest in Melbourne, very good gathering. I said also the same thing.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think his answer was "When the Bible was written, Christ didn't mean this way." That was his answer.

Prabhupāda: Oh, He used that part. He has found out. The rascal. Beat with shoes, that what "Christian, Christ could not find out, you have found out. You are so great. Thank you very much. You are more intelligent than Christ. Oh. So why Bible. Why not write your Bible? Let us follow."

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: What is this culture? A human being is killing so many animals, innocent animals, is that culture? They are less than animals. Who kills? The tiger kills, ferocious. A human being killing innocent animals... In Christian religion, therefore: "Thou shall not kill." But they are killing only. Where is the culture? Killing culture. That is not culture. What do you think?

David Wynne: It must be so. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. How a human being can kill another human being or another animal unnecessarily? And if you kill, there is law, life for life. But they have made laws for human beings. When an animal is killed, he's not criminal. But in the God laws you cannot avoid that. If you have killed an ant, you must be shot. That is God's law. You can avoid man-made law, but you cannot avoid God-made law. That you cannot do. You must be responsible. If you kill an ant even without knowledge, you are responsible. Such subtle laws are there. So we must know our responsibility. Without knowledge, if we kill, we are responsible. And with knowledge, there is no question. Where is that culture? They advertise, "Live and let live." What is that? Do they do that? Actually? They want to live at the expense of others. Why not let live others? Where is that culture?

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No, no, the wonderful thing is that this is a method of spiritual realization which attracts even a child. Unless one denies to be attracted, everyone is attracted. Even a child, even a dog. This is the... Therefore it is universal. Unless you deny to accept it, attraction is for everyone. If the child is innocent, he immediately exhibits his attraction.

Guest (3): I was really surprised when she said that, you know.

Prabhupāda: Oh, I have seen many. As soon as there is chanting and dancing, small children, automatically they do like this. Automatically. They dance. We have got many children. They dance, they chant. And they fall down and murmurs all the mantras. What is his name?

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. Give, give others, visitors.

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what is the difference between an innocent person and an ignorant person?

Prabhupāda: Innocent person means he's not offender. And ignorant is sometimes offender.

Devotee: Thank you.

Prabhupāda: A child is innocent, and his father is ignorant. His father may be knowing something, and purposely does not take. That is ignorance. Or he thinks that "What is the use of taking it?" That is ignorance. And innocent, he does not know anything. Actually, practically, there is little difference, but if you ask, you can differentiate in this way. Just like in Bhagavad-gītā it is said, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). This mūḍha is ignorant, and he does not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Everyone, according to our Vedic culture, for the last five thousand years, everyone accepts Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but he'll not do. He will say, "Why Kṛṣṇa will be the Supreme Lord?

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Simple life, simple life, innocent life... Because after all, we have to give up this material world. If we become attached, then we'll have to take birth again. Nivṛtta-tarṣair... There is another verse quoted by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. It is very difficult, but there is possibility. Niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. Bhagavad-bhajana, those who are eager to go back to home, back to Godhead... Pāraṁ paraṁ jigamiṣor bhava-sāgarasya. On the other side of this material world. For him... Viṣayiṇāṁ sandarśanam atha yoṣitāṁ ca, hā hanta hanta viṣa-bhakṣaṇato 'py asādhu (CC Madhya 11.8). For such person to be attracted by these material things is not good. It is suicidal. So material things, viṣaya, simply increasing the method of eating, sleeping, sex life and defense. This is material activity.

Guest (8): Defense?

Prabhupāda: Defense. Defense means... Just like we have discovered atomic bomb for defending. This is also material activities. So it requires time to learn. But one thing is, the beginning should be, as far as possible, our life should be sinless. Because in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find, it is said, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam. "Anyone who is completely freed from all sinful activities." Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām. "And always engaged in pious activities, such person can become devotee."

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: ...from the aggressor, but when you kill innocent animal, what is the reason?

Jesuit Priest: Oh, well then... Yes. Well, again, that's got to be interpreted. We wouldn't be able to... What foo... How would we live on food? How do we live if we don't eat?

Prabhupāda: How we are living?

Jesuit Priest: Pardon?

Prabhupāda: How we are living?

Jesuit Priest: Well, I don't know...

Prabhupāda: We don't kill animals.

Jesuit Priest: I don't know what your food is, but...

Mother: No, but you have a vegetarian diet...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No, no. When somebody comes with a revolver, you defend. That is another thing. But if somebody's innocent, why you should kill?

Jesuit Priest: And I say I shouldn't. God said, "Thou shalt not kill."

Prabhupāda: Then why you are killing animals?

Jesuit Priest: Well, you're doing it when you eat your potatoes.

Prabhupāda: No, the potato is not animal.

Jesuit Priest: It's a vegetable, life.

Prabhupāda: No.

Jesuit Priest: It starts with a little tiny seed. That's life.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no.

Jesuit Priest: It grows.

Prabhupāda: Potato is not animal. It is fruit.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Innocent animal killing and taking a potato from the tree, you are making equalized. It is not very...

Jesuit Priest: Oh, no, I'm not (indistinct) and saying. All I'm saying is if you're logical and accept different...

Prabhupāda: This is logical. Now...

Jesuit Priest: ...kinds of life.

Prabhupāda: I have to live. We agree that we have to live by eating another living entity. Jivo jīvasya jīvanam. But if I eat this grass, taken some grass, and if I eat some animal, do you think they are equal?

Jesuit Priest: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Equal? Then why don't you kill your child, own child?

Jesuit Priest: Because there's a, I mean, a... That's, that's... Logical. I just tried to show you the difference between...

Prabhupāda: Now, we don't agree that...

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: ... that innocent... That... That's all right.

Revatīnandana: Rational? Animals have got rationality.

Jesuit Priest: No they haven't. Omnia animalia intelectu carent.(?) (Latin)

Revatīnandana: Even your...

Jesuit Priest: This is bringing out exactly...

Revatīnandana: Even your own psychologists will display to you rational life in the monkeys.

Jesuit Priest: No, no.

Revatīnandana: And so many other animals. Rats.

Jesuit Priest: No.

Revatīnandana: They make rational decisions.

Jesuit Priest: No they don't.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So our point of view is that we don't allow killing any animal. Our Kṛṣṇa says: patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). Kṛṣṇa says vegetable, fruits, milk, grains, all these things should be offered to Me with devotion. And you should take the remnants of the foodstuff. So we take prasādam. And Kṛṣṇa says: "Give Me foodstuff prepared from this group." That we do. Accepting that the fruits, they have got life. But fruits are by nature... There are many fruits. It is offered by the tree for eating. The tree's not killed. So we accept this philosophy also that a, one animal, one living entity is meant for being food for another living entity. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. That we also accept, but that does not mean one living entity is the food for another living entity, that does not mean I can kill my mother, my child... That is not, sir. So at least this must be taken into consideration that cows, innocent, they give us milk, we take its milk, and we kill in regular slaughterhouse, this is not very good thing. It is sinful.

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: You may not, but nature is different. Just like a child does not hope that if he puts his finger in a fire, it will not burn. But nature is so strict, it doesn't care for the child or the old man. It will burn. I may prove very innocent, but nature doesn't care for that. Nature doesn't care for that. Nature will not show any mercy for the innocent child. No. That is nature. Is it not fact? If a child puts his finger on the fire, nature will not consider that: "Here is a innocent child. He may not be burned." No. Equally. Therefore nature is very strong. We cannot avoid the control of the nature. If you do something, it must acting, react in the same way. The same... If you put your finger in the fire, it must react, burn it. Nature is so strong. So as soon as you violate any law of nature, you'll be punished. That is... Just like God... State police is there, engaged by the government. As soon as you violate law, the police will arrest you and give you punishment. Similarly material nature means the police of God. As soon as you violate God laws, it will give immediately punishment. That is material nature. It is always punishing us.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore you take from the perfect, Kṛṣṇa. We take from Kṛṣṇa's representative. One who speaks as good as Kṛṣṇa. That is our process. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). We don't take, don't accept knowledge from any rascal. We accept knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme. I may be rascal, but because I am receiving knowledge from the perfect, whatever we speak, that is perfect. A child may be innocent he does not know. But he has learned that this article is called spectacle. So when he says, the child says, "Father, this is spectacle." This is perfect knowledge. Similarly, if you hear from the perfect and act accordingly, then you are perfect. Now Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. After death there is another body. So we accept it. It doesn't require any proof of so-called science who's imperfect.

Morning Walk -- December 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. Prāpti-siddhi. Now we are flying by aeroplane. A yogi can fly without any instrument. As Durvāsā Muni, he went even Vaikuṇṭha-loka. Not Vaikuṇṭha-loka. Within this planet, there is one planet where, Śvetadvīpa, Lord Viṣṇu lives. He went there and saw Lord Viṣṇu personally to request him to save him. He refused, "No, I cannot. You go to Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, beg pardon of him. If he pardons, then you will be saved." So to a devotee, innocent devotee, he had to fall down on his lotus feet, "Please save me." So what is the power of yogi?

Devotee: Is the pure devotee more merciful than Kṛṣṇa?

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...innocent child, woman, they're innocent. They should be given full protection. There is no such thing. They're being exploited, keeping them unmarried, and the hotels, and the clubs, and the, what is called? Top... top...

Devotees: Topless.

Prabhupāda: Topless, bottomless. That is going on. It is a regular policy that girls may remain unmarried, and the drunkards and the meat-eaters may take advantage of the prostitution. This is the policy. They have no sympathy. So many hundreds and thousands of innocent girls, they're like children. And they're exposed to prostitution. They have no shelter. Now these girls who are with us, they're feeling some shelter, you see? That we are giving some shelter. Everything should be reformed, political, social, and be, you American nation—you're favored nation, that I am always speaking; you should utilize the favor of God and be yourself perfect—and be leader of the whole world.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: How lovingly they offer me obeisances, touch my feet, and a little fruit or little, whatever I give, they are satisfied. So they are so friendly because they are innocent. They do not know what is this Hindu, Christian. So we must take care of them.

Guest (1): Some of those childrens are Christians.

Prabhupāda: Never mind Christian, Hindu, Muslim. A Christian or a..., if we offer them nice food and nice dress, nobody will deny.

Dr. Patel: But these Hindus became Christians because they were offered nice food and dress by Christian missionaries.

Prabhupāda: No, our point is not that, just to bring them and proselytize them to Hinduism. No. Take prasādam, take dress, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, dance. That's all. I never said to all these European and American disciples that "You become a Hindu." I never said. Ask them. I never said.

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, that one, I mean to say, rogue, thief, came to a bank manager. Somewhere in Western countries. And he brought some lotions. So he said that "I shall mix up these lotions. Immediately the whole bank will be blown up." So he became afraid because the scientists do that. So... "So you give me check immediately, two hundred millions or something, otherwise I'll mix it." So he gave him that check. And... Because they were... "It is time bomb. If you call police or arrest me within this time, then it will blown up." So in this way, he took away the check. And after sometimes, he phoned to the police, "This is the situation. Come and help us. Here is a time bomb on my table." So police came. They also took it very carefully in the chemical laboratory. And in the chemical lab, they were also afraid. Then they saw it is glycerin. That's all. Such fools are there. You see. It is simply exploiting the innocent public of their money, hard-earned money. That's all. And if you go to such foundation that "Give us some money for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness, printing these books," "No, no. We are not interested in religion. We are for scientific improvement, glycerin."

Morning Walk -- March 24, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: We call him Baby. He is innocent like a baby.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is very good qualification. But sometimes babies are misled. (break)

Dr. Patel:

yataḥ pravṛttir bhūtānāṁ

yena sarvam idaṁ tatam

svakarmaṇā tam abhyarcya

siddhiṁ vindati mānavaḥ

Prabhupāda: Saṁsiddhiṁ labhate parām.

Dr. Patel: So, now let us surrender. Yena sarvam idaṁ tatam.

Prabhupāda: Yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. Yena, that is person. Yena. That is not imperson. That is person. Is it not?

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1974, Bombay:

Girirāja: But it is better to find some innocent persons, for preaching.

Prabhupāda: Yes, better field, those who are innocent. That is the duty of the preacher, four things: īśvare tad-adhīneṣu baliśeṣu dviṣatsu ca. The preacher should see four things. First of all īśvara, the Supreme Person, God. So that vision must be there. He knows what is īśvara or the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Then tad-adhīneṣu, those who have taken shelter of that īśvara. That means devotees. Tad-adhīneṣu. And then baliśeṣu. Baliśeṣu means those who are innocent, have no sufficient knowledge, innocent. And dviṣatsu. And there is always a class of men who are envious of God, dviṣat. Dviṣat means envious. So preacher has to see these four classes of men or three classes. One, īśvara, and the other three classes. So he has to behave like that. To behave with īśvara-prema, how to love. That is his business. How to increase love for the Supreme. Prema. Maitrī, how to make friendship with the devotee. And to the innocent-kṛpā, how to become merciful. And to the envious-upekṣa, negligence, not to talk with them. Four behavior. Īśvare tad-a... This is madhyama adhikārī. And the position of the preacher is madhyama adhikārī. Therefore they have to point out, "Here is a jealous man, envious man." But people do not want it. They say, "Why you are pointing out? Why you are pointing out?" But this is business of the preacher. Otherwise how he will preach?

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Because they are innocent. The children, they are innocent. So if possible, give them some enlightenment, kṛpā, to become merciful upon them. So far children are concerned, they hear, they try to learn. Just like in Dallas, whatever we say, they accept. They do not protest. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then?

Girirāja: "Vasudeva thought of his wife as follows: 'For the present let me save the life of Devakī and later on, if there are children, I shall see how to save them.' He further thought..."

Prabhupāda: This is the consideration. By policy if he could save his wife, that first. He was following like that...

Girirāja: " 'If in the future I get a child who can kill Kaṁsa, just as Kaṁsa is thinking, then both Devakī and the child will be saved, because the law of providence is inconceivable. But now someway or other let me save the life of Devakī.' " (break)

Prabhupāda: ...jumps. In the village also there is experience, when there is fire, it jumps over another house, leaving one house in the middle.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...what is God. Such innocent. You see? They thought, "Might be some demigod." That's all.

Yaduvara;: "O Nanda Mahārāja, we are now in great doubt. Your son Kṛṣṇa must be one of the demigods." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Yaduvara: "And he saved all honest men from the hands of the dishonest." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...Vṛndāvana inhabitants, they are always anxious how to save the cows, always. They are connected with cows.

Yaduvara: "Thus ends the Bhaktivedanta purport of the Twenty-sixth chapter of Kṛṣṇa, Wonderful Kṛṣṇa." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...only Indra, even an ordinary person, he thinks he is all in all.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Dhanañjaya: They cannot solve their problem of alcohol consumption. And they are thinking that "If we import from America a soft drink factory to produce lemonade, orange, Coca Cola and so on, this will solve the problem."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is creating problem. What is this. Innocent?

Dhanañjaya: Innocenti. This is the name of a car. Actually, it's an "i" at the end, innocenti. (end)

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So use this. This is one of the business. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). We don't stop trade. We don't stop food, producing food grains. But we want to stop these killing houses. It is very, very sinful. Therefore in Europe, so many wars. Every ten years, fifteen years, there is a big war and wholesale slaughter of the whole human kind. And these rascals, they do not see it. The reaction must be there. You are killing innocent cows and animals. Nature will take revenge. Wait for that. As soon as the time is ripe, the nature will gather all these rascals, and club, slaughter them. Finished. They will fight amongst themselves, Protestant and Catholic, Russian and France, and France and Germany. This is going on. Why? This is the nature's law. Tit for tat. You have killed. Now you become killed. Amongst yourselves. They are being sent to the slaughterhouse. And here, you'll create slaughterhouse, "Dum! dum!" and killed, be killed. You know. You showed me?

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: In connection with that, I have discussed the animal killing. So all these meat-eaters, they are responsible for killing the innocent cows.

Bhagavān: Many people today are discussing this topic of reincarnation, but they don't understand the significance of the effects...

Prabhupāda: How they'll understand, all dull-headed fools, rascals? Dressed like gentlemen, that's all. Tāvat ca śobhate mūrkho yāvat kiñcin na bhāṣate. A rascal fool is decorated so long, as long he does not speak. As long he'll speak, his nature will be revealed, what is he. This gentleman therefore did not stay long to expose himself. (laughter)

Bhagavān: That's intelligent.

Jyotirmayī: When this man left, he told me that there is a very, very, big actress. She's known all over the world. She's called Brigitte Bardot. And she's making propaganda now everywhere against slaughterhouses. So he said she's living around here, and we should meet her, and ask her to come and see you. So if she's here, we can try.

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: That is your sentiment, but practical world, he is a scholar, he is a head man of a department, a university. He must be famous.

Devotee: I just saw... Maybe you knew the latest headlines in the newspapers today were "President Nixon is found innocent."

Prabhupāda: Oh, ācchā?

Devotee: They said he was found innocent.

Prabhupāda: In the court?

Devotee: Yes. Because, you knew about the Watergate case. He was caught...

Yogeśvara: Prabhupāda knows the story. He knows the incident. He was found innocent by who? By court?

Devotee: Yes, by the whole government. He had done some cheating and campaign making secret tape recordings against the other party.

Prabhupāda: He did? And still he is innocent?

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Devotee: According to the American government it is illegal to... Each person has his own plans. And it is illegal to find out the other's. But now they said he is innocent.

Prabhupāda: Court says.

Devotee: The United States government. They had a big trial and everything. So they found tapes and everything, but there was some missing tapes. They could not directly pin him for the whole thing. He said, "I didn't know anything about it." He says, "My men were just doing it. I never told them to do it. They did it on their own, for me. They liked me so much, they were just doing it. I never paid them."

Yogeśvara: Isn't the kṣatriya qualities that he is to be trustworthy?

Prabhupāda: No. When there is political game, everyone does everything to gain his victory. In politics, these things are allowed. Just like killing, fighting, kṣatriya's fighting. That killing is allowed. But killing is not allowed generally. Kṛṣṇa has killed so many. If you take from moral point of view, He's sometimes immoral. He has killed His maternal uncle, Kaṁsa, and Śiśupāla, Śiśupāla, his cousin brother. And Balarāma killed Rukma. Once He saved him, and another time, that Aniruddha's marriage, or something like that... Balarāma killed Rukma, the brother of Rukmiṇī.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because they are illusioned.

Prabhupāda: Innocent?

Rūpānuga: Illusioned, illusioned.

Prabhupāda: Oh, illusioned, yes.

Rūpānuga: Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. They are so-called educated, doctors, but actually they have no knowledge. Simply they are bluffing, cheating. Where is the question of creation? So many millions and trillions of living entities are there, and they are making conference, "How to create from chemicals?" Just see this childish proposal. And wasting time and misleading person, and wasting hard-earned money of the state. And big, big foundation supplying them money. And if you ask, "Give us some money for Kṛṣṇa consciousness," "No, no, we are not interested in religion. We are interested in science, and this is the science." All fools and rascal, mūḍhā. That is our test. Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is a mūḍhā. Bas. We have got the test tube, this Bhagavad-gītā, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15).

Morning Walk -- (World War III) -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is civilization. "Why these innocent civilians should be killed? Let us fight, military to military. That's all." That is honest fighting. We have to settle some things by fighting. So fighting may be, I mean to say, limited within the fighters, not with the civilians.

Rāmeṣvara: In modern warfare it's...

Prabhupāda: Why not? Yes. But they, they are so rascals, they throw bomb anywhere.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Especially atom bomb.

Prabhupāda: But one thing is that because civilians are also responsible for declaring war, because the parliament is the representation of the people...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Karma.

Prabhupāda: Therefore, now the war is between people to people, nation to nation. They support with men and money. So therefore they are also killed by nature's law.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, harmonious coordination. But the śūdras were hated like anything, and they became Mohammedans. And there was no reacceptance. Formerly, from Caitanya literature we understand, that if the Musselman will take little water from the badna (?) and sprinkle like this, then you become Mohammedan. In this way all these Indians, they became Mohammedan. And the result is now the Pakistan, and you go on fighting forever. Why these innocent persons who were by sprinkling water became Mohammedan, why they do not claim? Kṛṣṇa and the śāstra, it does not say that if one has fallen, you cannot reclaim him. No, why not reclaim him? Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa... (BG 9.32). This is by birth. And of course, in our country everything was taken by birth. Now it is going on. But even by birth one is low-grade...

Morning Walk -- May 7, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: When there is no other food, you have to take anything. That is another thing. But when there are other foods, grains and vegetables, why should you eat anything? You have to eat and live. So if you can eat and live innocently, why should you kill? Then, Christ says "Thou shall not kill." Was he a fool, rascal, that he advised "Thou shall not kill"? He had no idea?

Śrutakīrti: But he meant kill other people.

Prabhupāda: No. That is your interpretation, rascal's interpretation.

Amogha: All the priests say that.

Prabhupāda: He says clearly, "Thou shall not kill." And when I cut grass, it is not called killing. You should know dictionary. Because you are uneducated, you do not know the meaning of the dictionary.

Śrutakīrti: But I'm just a common Christian. I'm following my authority. They say it's all right. The Pope.

Paramahaṁsa: He's the supreme authority. The Pope is eating meat.

Prabhupāda: That means from the supreme down to the rascal everyone is rascal. That proves it, that all of you are a set of rascaldom.

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: The person who doesn't know, he thinks that the child is innocent...

Prabhupāda: Innocent child. He's not innocent. He is sinful. He is being, what is called, chastised. Svakarma-phala-rūpa-jīva. That is the word, svakarma. One suffers... (aside:) You can sit down here, just like... Everyone suffers the reaction of his own work. Svakarma-phala-rūpa-jīva. Because he is a child, he takes sympathy, "Oh, such a small child is being killed." We take it like that. It is that he is the potent criminal. Now he is being punished.

Paramahaṁsa: You were saying with all these wars. The people that are being killed are simply...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore those who are in high standard, they do not take anything as wrong. Everyone is suffering his own reaction. Then bhaktas, they think, tat te 'nukampāṁ susamīkṣamāṇo bhuñjāna evātma-kṛtaṁ vipākam (SB 10.14.8). When a devotee is in trouble, he thinks that "I am suffering for my past deeds. (break) ...me." That is a devotee's attitude. "Let me do my business, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." And then he is sure. Such person is assured to come back. He doesn't care for all this suffering. He thinks, "I am suffering for my past deeds. That's all. Why shall I bother myself? Let me do my present duty, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa."

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: That is natural. That is natural. It is good. But they are not led by good leader. Otherwise next alternative is this, that you have to give up this artificial way of civilization. Now this land is vacant. We can produce so much food grains if it is utilized. Fruits, flower, vegetables, grains—we can produce. This land is very good land for producing potato, watermelon, this. Very good land. But who is doing that? This is the suitable land for producing watermelon. And watermelon is such a nice thing, and potato. You boil potato and take watermelon, you have full nourishment are supplied. Very innocent and simple food.

Paramahaṁsa: In one science magazine they have published recently there's an article by a man who says we must eat meat because the plants don't have any fatty tissues for making brain tissue, so they say...

Prabhupāda: Rascal. So your brain is causing disaster; still you are developing brain? (laughter) Your brain is causing bankruptcy, and still you want to develop this rubbish brain? Begging money, "You give us money so that we can maintain"? And what is the use of this brain? Burn this brain. Advise him that "You better burn your brain so that you may not create any more disaster." To keep his brain, one animal must be sacrificed. And the brain work is this, that they are creating disaster. What is the use of this brain?

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, that is not authorized. Therefore we say specifically, "Bhagavad-gītā As It is," no interpretation. Here Kṛṣṇa says that man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). So we preach that thing. We preach that "You be Kṛṣṇa conscious." Man-manāḥ: "Always think of Me," Kṛṣṇa says. And we are teaching these disciples, "Always think of Kṛṣṇa." There is no difference. We don't create. And therefore it is successful. Others, they created their own concoction; it was never successful. Before me, so many swamis came to the Western countries. They were not successful. Not a single person was Kṛṣṇa conscious, in the history. In the history of the last two hundred years so many swamis are coming in the Western countries. They also speak on Bhagavad-gītā, but not a single person was Kṛṣṇa conscious. And since we have presented Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, hundreds and thousands. This is the proof, that they presented something concoction. It was, what is called, impotent.

A impotent man having sex, he cannot beget children. He can enjoy that sex, but he cannot beget child. Similarly, these so-called swamis, they are impotent. They could not produce any child of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the proof. (To Amogha:(?)) So you reply him. Don't be innocent like that.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Sex life we are not stopping. But sex life allowed only to the gṛhasthas, householder, restricted. Not illicit sex. We are not stopping sex life. Sex life is required. But under rules. And if you enjoy illicit sex, then the whole society is spoiled. You make the innocent girls spoiled. And they have no other business than prostitution. That means you put the society into chaotic condition. The young girls they become cheap, you enjoy, then you become irresponsible. You have no family encumbrances, and you do not know how to maintain the family. That is the position. What is this welfare? Because the young boys enjoy the young girls and they get children, the government has to support.

Devotee: That's the cause of this whole problem.

Prabhupāda: Yes, the welfare department is for that purpose only.

Morning Walk -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:

Australian devotee 2: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in New Zealand we have a situation where the main industry is killing animals, the biggest industry, yet there is so much rain, so much nice atmosphere over there. Why is this? Why is there such a nice atmosphere but they are killing so many cows? Is that that they are innocent and they do not know and so Kṛṣṇa is not punishing them so much?

Prabhupāda: Yes, they will be punished. (pause) (break) ...so many motor accidents. And there will be war. Then wholesale punishment. Then killing, being killed within the womb of the mother. They are being punished. Nowadays these things have been introduced. Now this child which is being killed by the mother, they are all these sinful men. They cannot come out even, out of the womb of the mother. There they are killed. Nature's law is very strict.

Morning Walk -- June 28, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: And Europe, the most aristocratic person means he is keeping so many horses and so many dogs. That is aristocracy. They will ride on the horse, and taking their dogs, they will go to the forest and kill some innocent birds. That is their heroic activities. We went to see one palace in France.

Satsvarūpa: Yes, I remember. In the hall they had all pictures of those activities.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: Killing birds and fox.

Prabhupāda: That is aristocracy. (break) ...cannon, there was fight? Or this man is very famous hero? There was statue of Napoleon also in Paris. And they identify Napoleon and France, the same. But France is there; there is no Napoleon. (laughter) Napoleon finished, Hitler finished, Gandhi finished. (break)

Morning Walk -- July 1, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: So what is the difficulty? I do not find. (break)

Bhāvānanda: ...the tongue, I think, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: Capati, rice is innocent food. What is the difficulty?

Bhāvānanda: It's nice.

Prabhupāda: Over and above, there is fruit.

Harikeśa: A lot of devotees are quoting you that... they say that there is no need to eat grains, that you said grains were for the animals.

Prabhupāda: I am...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But Prabhupāda is eating grains. (laughter)

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: No, put it here. He'll take. Take this prasāda. They are all fruits, innocent. In your country you have got so many nice fruits.

Mayor: Yes, we do.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And grains and milk. So much nice things. You can avoid meat-eating very easily, as they have given up.

Mayor: It looks very good, but I (indistinct) with a knife. (laughter)

Viṣṇujana: Someone is bringing a fork. Prabhupāda, perhaps we could provide him with some of our literature and that will inform him more about our movement.

Prabhupāda: Yes, give him.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Religion means primarily to know God and love Him. That is religion. And nobody knows God, and what to speak of loving Him? Nobody is trained up how to know God and how to love Him. They are satisfied by going to the church: "O God, give us our daily bread." That also not everyone goes. So the Communist says that "You don't go to the church. Bread we shall supply." So poor innocent persons, they get bread elsewhere, so they do not go to church. But nobody is serious to understand what is God and how to love Him. Nobody is serious. Therefore in Bhāgavatam, it is said, it is cheating religion. I profess some religion, but I do not know what is God and how to love Him. That's all. So that type of religion is cheating religion. Religion means to know God and love Him. But generally, a man does not know what is God and what to speak of loving Him? So therefore that is cheating religion. That is not religion. But so far Christian religion is concerned, there is ample chance of understanding God. But they do not care for it. Take for example, the commandment is "Thou shall not kill." But in the Christian world, best slaughterhouses are maintained. So how they can become God conscious? They disobey the commandments, do not care for Lord Jesus Christ's order. So this is not only in Christian religion. Every religion, it is going on. It is simply rubber stamp. "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian." And none of them do know what is God and how to love Him.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: No discrimination. That means they are not even civilized. When man is not civilized, he kills one animal and eats because he does not know how to grow food. Just like we have got one farm land, in New Vrindaban. So we are preparing so first-class preparation from milk, the neighbours they come, they are astonished that from milk such nice preparation can be done, hundreds. So that means they are not even civilized, how to prepare nutritious food from milk. Milk-accepting that cow flesh and blood is very nutritious, that we also admit—but a civilized man utilizes the blood and meat in a different way. The milk is nothing but blood. But it is transformed into milk. And again, from milk you make so many things. You make yogurt, you make curd, you make ghee, so many things. And combination of these milk products with grains, with fruits and vegetables, you make similar hundreds of preparation. So this is civilized life, not that directly kill one animal and eat. That is uncivilized life. You take the-accepting that cow's flesh and blood is very nutritious—you take it in a civilized way. Why you should kill? It is innocent animal. Is simply eating grass given by God and supplying milk. And from milk you can live. And the gratefulness is that cut his throat? Is that civilization? What do you say?

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Ah. No, this first word, distress, ārtaḥ, ārtaḥ. Artaḥ, arthārthī, jñānī and jijñāsuḥ. So some innocent man, when he is distressed, he has belief in God. So he approaches God, "God, I am distressed. Kindly help me." He is simply on faith. That is good. And jñānī means he wants to know actually what is God. Then his enquiry is advancing.

Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, sometimes philosophers make a distinction between knowledge and a belief. They say you can believe in something, but that doesn't mean that you necessarily know that thing which you believe in.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's fact. Therefore for the neophytes, less intelligent, they should believe. That is the only way, viśvāsa. So generally mass of people they are not so educated. They should believe.

Devotee (6): It says in the Bhāgavatam...

Prabhupāda: Therefore in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said that viśvāsa śabde śudṛdha niścaya. Śudṛdha niścaya, kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya. Śraddhā, śraddhā. Śraddhā means faith. So in Christian science also, there is state, faithful. So this faith may be blind, but that is required.

Morning Walk -- August 6, 1975, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: There's a big. (break)

Brahmānanda: We used to go hunting these, with big guns, that innocent animal.

Prabhupāda: Hero. Big hero. (laughter) (break) ...was telling that here also people come and...

Brahmānanda: With bow and arrow, he was saying.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is allowed?

Ambarīṣa: No. It is against the law.

Ādi-keśava: When we were coming over here, we were discussing how in this whole park, there is this big huge park, and only two or three men maintain the whole park because they don't have enough money to pay them. Yet if you go to the street not so far down from the temple, there are so many men just sitting in the street doing nothing all day long. And yet they say there is a shortage of men to work in this place to make it nice.

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: They are rascals. What is the use? That is advised, prema-maitri kṛpopekṣā, four things. Preacher—there are four things for him. One thing is he should love God. He should make friendship with devotees. He should preach amongst the innocent, and he should kick on the face of the atheist. Upekṣā. "Hut! (laughter) I don't like you." That's all, no business with him. This is preacher. Preacher should love God; preacher should make friendship with devotees; preacher will preach amongst the innocent, poor; and those who are atheist, nonbeliever, kick on his face. Don't care for him. "Go away. Get out." That's all. That much mercy upon them. "Get out, rascal." But sometimes we take the risk of talking with these rascals also. That is our mercy. But according to śāstra, they are to be kicked out. They are not to be taken care of because it is waste of time.

Harikeśa: They just don't want to accept, no matter what.

Prabhupāda: No, no, even they have no argument, they have no logic, so what is the use of talking? What is the use? Simply waste of time.

Morning Walk -- October 25, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: No, no, to kill animal is not very heroic. Nonsense. Innocent animal wandering and you kill. "Oh, very great hero." Again he deserves to be kicked on the face. All action, they are simply rewarded with kicking on the face. Why should you kill animal? Ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu. If you are killed, you feel pain. Why should you kill others unnecessarily? (break) ...here?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Not here, I don't think. A golf course is not a private place.

Prabhupāda: So we shall return? No?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: If you like.

Harikeśa: Would you like your gloves, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No. (break)

Morning Walk -- November 8, 1975, Bombay:

Indian man (3): They are innocent. They are not...

Dr. Patel: Innocent?

Prabhupāda: No, they are not innocent; they are stupid. (laughter) They are not innocent. They will never agree...

Indian man (3): There are so many Indians, they are also not...

Dr. Patel: No, they are also like that.

Prabhupāda: Huh? The simple thing explained in the Bhagavad-gītā... Simple thing explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, asmin dehe dehinām: "Within this body there is the proprietor." So they do not understand it. Huh?

Indian man (3): That comes after, after...

Indian man (4): Guru, you should go? Then only perfect knowledge he will get.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no. I don't say. This is the philosophy. Amānitvam adambhitvam. Where is that thing? That is taught from the brahmacārī. Brahmacārī, a small boy, he is taught that you become amānitvam adambhitvam, and he accepts it. Because he is small, the brahmacārī, he may becoming from a king's family, but if he's ordered, "My dear boy, take my shoes and brush it," he'll do it, because he's innocent boy. He learns. Therefore brahmacār gurukule vasan dānta. The mode of life should be trained from the brahmacārī.

Dr. Patel: This British public school, sir, they are doing that. The school of Harrow and the Eaton. The first-standard boys have to brush the shoes of the fifth-standard boys, and the fifth to the sixth, and the sixth to the seventh, and first to the second...

Prabhupāda: No, why not to the...

Dr. Patel: And the first boy, his shoes goes to the teacher.

Prabhupāda: Some idea...

Dr. Patel: That is great idea.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 5, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Was active, He is active, but you, you rascal, you cannot see. You cannot say, "Once He was active. Now He is no more active. He has finished His activity." That you cannot say. Dormant? What do you mean by dormant? Huh? Dormant means potential. He can act. And He is acting. That acting you have to learn, how He is acting. He appears to be not acting, but He is acting. That is knowledge. Just like airplane is running. A intelligent man knows that "The pilot is there. He is acting. Therefore it is running." And a foolish man will say, "The airplane is going automatically." That is the question of observation. A foolish boy... I have given this example many times, that I was thinking that in the fan there is a ghost. But the idea is, there must be somebody. Although I was a child... I could not explain how the fan is running in my childhood. I was thinking there must be some ghost. And in the gramophone box I was thinking there must be one man within this box. So this is foolish thinking, but I was convinced that without somebody, it cannot sing or it cannot run. Even one is very innocent child, he can think like that.

Morning Walk -- February 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Cāṇakya is authority. Otherwise, why you have named "Cāṇakya Purī"? He's as good as Gandhi and other big, big men. So it is said, viśvāso naiva kartavyaṁ strīṣu rāja-kuleṣu ca.(?)I am innocent. I am quoting authority.

Acyutānanda: Yes. Yes, you can say that is the statement of Cāṇakya. One foolish man... I was saying, "Some...," in my lectures, "some foolish scholar has written that because Kṛṣṇa is black, He is a scheduled caste." So there was a scheduled caste man in the audience who became educated. So he took offense. "Well, maybe Kṛṣṇa was the leader of the scheduled caste." So I said then, "that is the statement of some scholar. You cannot criticize me. I am quoting a scholar." The audience shouted him down too. (break) Śūdras and yavanas may become brāhmaṇas, but many of them don't.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Morning Walk -- March 14, 1976, Mayapur:

Gurukṛpā: But some are innocent.

Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa's dictation.

Revatīnandana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And you cannot bind Kṛṣṇa to dictate in a similar way. If He likes, He can ask a sinful man, "Do this." If He doesn't like, He may not act. That is Kṛṣṇa.

Revatīnandana: So ultimately it is simply by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Revatīnandana: ...that he comes back to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So it is Kṛṣṇa's business where to show mercy, where not to show. You cannot oblige Him that "You show mercy everywhere." No. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga-maya-samāvṛtaḥ (BG 7.25). Kṛṣṇa.... You cannot oblige Kṛṣṇa, "You do this." That is not Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes, for the rascals. Otherwise they will pollute the innocent girls. The innocent girls.... That is the policy of the Western civilization, that "Let the karmīs enjoy new, new girls and be energetic to produce machine." This is the European civilization, American civilization. Because the karmīs, unless they have sufficient sex intercourse, they cannot work, so this is the policy: "Let all the girls remain open." They.... "Let them use and produce atomic bomb. Show your brain." The.... Just like the marriage.... According to Vedic civilization, marriage is allowed to the karmīs. It is not that marriage allowed to the sannyāsī or brahmacārī. The karmīs require sex. Therefore.... Why marriage is allowed to the gṛhastha? Why not to the brahmacārī, vānaprastha or sannyāsī? Why it is not recommended? Because the karmīs require that enlivenment. Therefore they are allowed to marry. So in the European civilization it is only karmīs. There is no question of brahmacārī, vānaprastha or sannyāsa. There is no such idea. Therefore they want new, new girls. And that they have kept, this artificial law.

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Now, the Vedic civilization is "All right, you are not satisfied, one woman, don't pollute the innocent girls or in the home. Go to the prostitute." Still, in big, big cities, there is a quarter, prostitute quarter, still. They are professional prostitutes.

Pañca-draviḍa: What was the Vedic punishment if somebody broke these moral principles?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Pañca-draviḍa: What would be the punishment in a Vedic society if somebody...

Prabhupāda: Oh. Picture, Fifth Canto. You see the description of the hell.

Pañca-draviḍa: Hell. But I mean, within the society itself, there was punishment there also from the king?

Prabhupāda: Everyone who will commit sinful activities will be punished. That is nature's law. Exactly like that: If you infect some disease, you must suffer from that disease. The nature's law is so strict, and it is going on. It doesn't require any supervision. The supervisions are already made so perfect. You infect this disease: you suffer from it. That's all.

Morning Walk -- March 22, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yato mat tato pat. Yes, this is going on. This business, cheaters and cheated. We preach to one, the innocent persons who are being cheated, and we don't want to cheat anybody, but what Kṛṣṇa says. Our business is very simple.

Devotee: So we should expose these bogus...

Prabhupāda: Yes, we are exposing, that is our business.

Devotee: Actually, by making such wonders they are exposing themselves.

Prabhupāda: That is fact.

Devotee: Just like Guru Maharaj-ji.

Prabhupāda: Anyone, why Guru Maharaj-ji, any Mahārāja. Any man who will speak something which is not in the instruction of Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Kṛṣṇa, he is cheating. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Never mind he's very nicely dressed. But because he is not surrendered soul to Kṛṣṇa, he is a miscreant. That's all Beware of him.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Can anyone be said to be innocent in this world?

Prabhupāda: There are three classes: one devotee, one innocent, and one envious. So we have nothing to do with the envious. With devotee, we shall make friendship, and to the innocent, we shall preach.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But the innocent souls, they're not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: He'll surrender. You teach him. Because he's innocent, he does not know. But you preach, he will become. That is our duty.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So persons who we preach to and give the message of Kṛṣṇa consciousness to...

Prabhupāda: Then let.... If anyone hears very attentively, that means he's innocent. He should be given attention. And one who says, "Why Kṛṣṇa Bhagavān? Ramakrishna Bhagavān." Oh, that's rascal, immediately. Take him, rascal. That's all. Finished. Created God. Huh? This Ramakrishna Mission has created God. God cannot be created. God is God. This is anthropomorphism. Is it not?

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...they can't give up their sinful activities even after hearing about Kṛṣṇa, are they in the envious class or the innocent class?

Prabhupāda: They're envious. Sinful means that is the cause of their becoming envious. (break) ...law. Religion means the order of God. Simple definition. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Just like law, we keep to the right or left, order of the government. One who obeys this law, he's good citizen. One who disobeys, he's rascal. Similarly, dharma means the order of God. So one who obeys the order of God, he is really religious. One who does not, he's rogue, duṣkṛtina. This is simple. (break).... Christian. Now, what is the order of God? The Ten Commandments. If one abides by the Ten Commandments, he's really Christian. Take Buddhism; if he abides by the order of Lord Buddha, then he's right.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: So distribute these books anywhere possible. It doesn't matter where it is. The same process. Dante nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipatya. The books will sell, that "You rascal number one, you set aside whatever learned. Read this." He sādhavaḥ sakalam eva vihāya: "You are very learned, but forget what you have learned, all rascaldom. Try to read this book." Tāvac ca śobhate mūrkho yāvat kiñcin na bhāṣate: "A rascal fool is very beautifully dressed, very nice sitting. But his rascaldom will be disclosed as soon as he will speak." So these rascals, as soon as they speak, "We shall surpass the laws of nature," then we can understand what kind of rascals. Tāvac ca śobhate mūrkhaḥ. By their, these words we can take, "Oh, rascaldom," at once. "I shall break the wall. I shall push the mountain with my head." It is like that. If somebody is thinking that "I shall push the Himalayan mountains by knocking with my head," then we can understand. So where it is? A rascal, the innocent, he is also rascal. But innocent is eager to become intelligent, so there we shall deal. And the stubborn atheists, they are dviṣat. They cannot be corrected immediately, unless they become ruined. (break) ...their standard of life. Try for that. Concentrate in your country. There is no need of going.... I was written, asking you that, that "If it is very hard job, don't try for that, useless waste of time." Incorrigible. So what is the use of going to a person...?

Morning Walk -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...compared to the innocent person, ignorant person.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14).

Rāmeśvara: But then again he argues like this, he says, "The living entity cannot do anything without the sanction of God. So I am desiring certain sinful activities, but why is Kṛṣṇa sanctioning it?"

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa does not sanction.

Rāmeśvara: Then how is it going on?

Prabhupāda: But you insist, so Kṛṣṇa, in disgust, says, "All right, do at your own risk. You rascal. You will not hear Me." That's all. I have given this example many times, that my son wanted to touch the table fan. Did I say it?

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is another thing, because you do not know that you are risking your life without Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the.... You do not, that I have already said, that an innocent person doesn't know what is going to happen, but things are going to happen. That you do not know.

Rāmeśvara: After death.

Prabhupāda: So you must be aware what is going to happen after death. Then if you become fearless, that is secure. But without knowing, if you are not afraid, that is risk.

Richard: Okay, are you familiar with the writings of Descartes?

Prabhupāda: We don't read anyone's books except Bhagavad-gītā.

Richard: Oh, I thought you said you studied other philosophies.

Prabhupāda: Study, there are so many books we study.

Richard: Right, okay, well anyway, there was a French philosopher in the 1700's named Rene Descartes, and his...

Prabhupāda: I think we have discussed this philosopher.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Kathy Kerr: No. Does that mean then that the basic, your basic self, your basic spirit then, is innocent basically? Like if it's the same spirit throughout your life from the moment you were born on, then it is innocent and you can, you can achieve fullness...

Prabhupāda: Now first of all, let us accept that the basic principle is the soul. Now whether he is innocent or evil, that we shall consider later on. First of all, the basic power is the spirit soul. First of all we have to understand that the spirit soul is there always, although we are changing bodies. This first principle has to be.... But they do not understand. This education is lacking.

Morning Walk -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that we must do. (break) ...policy is when we go to a, what is called, a bad character, we don't go to associate with him, but to give him our association. Therefore we must be strong and very pure, so that your association, they will be benefited. For the preachers, īśvare tad-adhīneṣu bāliśeṣu dviṣatsu, the four behavior. Īśvara, tad-adhīneṣu, devotees, bāliśeṣu, innocent, and dviṣatsu, those who are envious. So a devotee, those who are preachers, they, prema, loving God, making friendship with devotee, and those who are innocent, to deliver. And those who are envious, reject. (break)

Jagadīśa: ...professor, Śrīla Prabhupāda, named Motilal, is a Bengali Vaiṣṇava. But now he drinks and eats meat. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...objection of Professor O'Connell?

Garden Conversation -- June 23, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Everywhere this world is like that. Even the father will give trouble, Prahlāda Mahārāja, what to speak of others. Demon father is giving trouble to a Vaiṣṇava son. And not grown-up son, five years old, innocent, but he's giving trouble.

Devotee (3): When we had sickness the state police became very interested in us, and today a state policeman stopped me and asked if you were here. So he seems to be paying special attention that you are here now. He's very interested.

Prabhupāda: However demon may be, they can appreciate that these are ideal characters.

Devotee (4): All these state police, they purchase Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Ugra-karmāṇaḥ, the factory. This is ugra-karma. Pradyumna was describing ugra-karma, hellish. Little karma, just wheat is growing, a little tilling, that is sufficient. What is the use of opening big, big factory? Ugra-karma. What it has helped? You were talking on behalf of them. What it has helped? Keeping them. Innocent men, women, they are kept in that factory simply for livelihood. A little work will provide his needs. Nature has given so much facility. They can grow little food anywhere. The cows are there in the pasturing ground. Take milk and live peacefully. Why you open factories? What is the use? Keeping them in hellish condition of life. So this is the description. Now discuss these points.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: You say, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they engage in unbeneficial horrible works meant to destroy the world and that this refers to the atomic weapons. This is so true.

Prabhupāda: Yes, God's speaking, Kṛṣṇa is speaking.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: These things are meant for ajitendriyānām, who could not control the senses, ajitendriyānām. And who has engaged his senses in the service of the Lord, they are not ajitendriya. If you have engaged your mind in Kṛṣṇa, the mind is the king of senses; then your senses cannot be misled. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane (SB 9.4.18). Then if your mind is always in Kṛṣṇa, man-mana bhava mad bhakto, then what you'll speak except Kṛṣṇa? If you speak nonsense, that means your mind is not engaged in Kṛṣṇa. The mind is the center of all sensual activities. So if your mind is always in Kṛṣṇa, how we can talk nonsense? Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane. He'll be always engaged in talking about Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. So if we keep our mind always in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then there is no question of mauna, because we'll have to talk about Kṛṣṇa. Why shall I remain mauna? If we talk about Kṛṣṇa, or what Kṛṣṇa has said, then I am benefited, and the audience, he is also benefited. Take Bhagavad-gītā and talk. So those who are Kṛṣṇa devotees, they'll gladly hear. Those who are inquisitive, innocent, they'll also hear. And the dviṣāt, those who are envious, they'll go away. That's good, clear. Talk about Kṛṣṇa. That is spiritual. Don't talk anything else.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So innocent suffers. Intelligent never suffers. Only the rascals, innocent, they suffer. Innocent means rascal also. He does not know what is, what to do. The rascal is also innocent. A child is innocent, but he's a rascal. It does not mean because he's innocent, he's not rascal. Rascal means he's innocent also. The child does not know that, "If I touch fire it will burn." Therefore he's a rascal. But because he is child, innocent, he'll not be excused. The rascal and innocent on the same category. Innocence of law is not, no excuse. If you go to the court, if you say, "Sir I did not know there is law like this," that does not mean... You must suffer. Why Kṛṣṇa comes? He gives advice that "You do this. Don't remain innocent and rascal. Then you'll be happy." Why should you stick to the rascaldom? He's personally advising. He says sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Why you are sticking to Hinduism and Muslimism and Christianism? Why? That is rascaldom. You take to His advice and you be happy.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: If you keep the society in chaotic condition, any department, intellectual, administration, production, they'll be all topsy turvey, and there cannot be any peace in the world. So this Vedic scheme, varṇāśrama, is a very important scheme. If possible it should be introduced and taken up very seriously. That is one of the items of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, to reestablish the institution of varṇa and āśrama. Not by birth, but by qualification. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Guṇa-karma, by quality. In India, the varṇāśrama is there, but it is not organized because the government does not take care. The government is imitating Western way of life, "There is no need of brāhmaṇa, there is no need of kṣatriya, simply śūdras." Everywhere this is the position, the śūdra population, kalau śūdra sambhavaḥ. In this age everyone is a śūdra. So it doesn't matter, everyone is born śūdra, but he should be trained up. Just like in our practical life we see that everyone is not born a scientist or engineer or lawyer. Everyone is born innocent, child, then he's trained up by the guardians. Similarly, there should be a training how to become brāhmaṇa, how to become kṣatriya, how to become vaiśya. And the government should see that everyone, as he is trained up, he is working according to his quality and occupational duty. Then there will be complete peace and harmony. That human society is perfect.

Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Those who are innocent.

Bhagavān: Yes. In the colleges even it is very difficult.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Bhagavān: In the colleges now. Before, it was not so difficult. Now they are becoming...

Prabhupāda: Spoiled, all spoiled. All spoiled.

Bhagavān: Now many devotees are younger, sixteen, seventeen years old, not so spoiled.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said, kaumāra ācaret prājño dharman bhagavatān iha: (SB 7.6.1) "From the very beginning." How they are spoiling the opportunity in the whole educational system, social system, political system. Let us do our duty. What can be done? Is there any purport?

Conversation with George Harrison -- July 26, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Not in the ocean. It is the sinful activities of the populace. That is real problem. They are all engaged in sinful activities. Especially this innocent animal killing. These are the all reaction.

Gurudāsa: In New York they had one island of refuse floated in to shore. For years they were building up island of refuse, and it floated in, and now no one can go to the beaches.

Prabhupāda: Samosa. Where is samosa? There is only one left?

George Harrison: I'm okay, actually.

Devotee (2): There is sour cream.

George Harrison: I've got plenty, thanks.

Prabhupāda: Prasada, we can eat up to the neck. (laughter) There is no harm. You'll never get indigestion. You have got some fruits?

George Harrison: Yes.

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: That's a fact. If one actually interested in real philosophy, they must come to spiritualism. Ātma-tattvam. That is ātma-tattvam. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long they do not come to this platform of understanding ātma-tattva, whatever rascal they are doing, simply defeat, that's all. Parābhava. Simply frustration and defeat. This very word, parābhava, means defeat. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. Why he's defeated? Abodha-jātaḥ. Because by birth he's a rascal. Abodha-jātaḥ. And this will continue yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long he's not enlightened to inquire about spirit and the science of spirit, he'll remain in that, that, what is called, defeat position or conquered position. So we have to now increase our scope. Everything we have got. And if you don't come to this platform, ātma-tattva, then your all attempt will be defeat. You are already defeated, frustrated, simply struggling, that's all. Either take the capitalist or communist, who has conquered? Everyone is defeated. One party may be proud that "We have been victorious." What victory you have got? What is the victory? Not that the communist countries, they are all happy. This is not the fact. Then where is your victory? Simply beating the drum that they have got victory, victory? "We have gone to moon planet. We have gone to Mars." Cheating innocent public. Is that victory? The girls are working that side? No.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Once Sarasvatī said that "We have no sex with woman." (laughter) So, innocent, she does not know. That is, if they are kept separate, they remain innocent. And they are taught that all women should be addressed as mother. Whatever self-control. And female children should be taught how to become faithful to the husband, and to learn the arts of cooking, arts of painting—that should be their subject matter.

Jyotirmāyī: Painting?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sixty-four arts, Rādhārāṇī did. Then She could control Kṛṣṇa.

Jyotirmāyī: So after they have learned all the academics, reading, writing, all these.

Prabhupāda: Academic is ordinary, ABCD, that's all. Not very much. But these arts. They should learn how to cook nicely.

Jyotirmāyī: And what should the boys be taught from ten to sixteen?

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Vegetable, fruits, very innocent, little milk. That's all. Even if you don't eat these foodgrains, that is preferred. Better. Vegetable and fruits and milk, that is sufficient nutritious. There is no question of disease. But for our tongue taste we eat so many cooked food, but if we eat vegetables, boiled vegetables and fruits and milk, ah, it is sufficient. Ekādaśī. (laughter) Daily ekādaśī.

And these peanuts, a few grains. Not much. That is also nice. Cashew, peanut. Yes. So thank you very much. You are working so much for Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Bas. You become a guru. Actually you are doing the guru's work. "Here is a message from Kṛṣṇa. Please take it." Bas. Simple. Yāre dekha. And whomever you meet, tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa. Either you speak personally or give him a book.

Maṇihāra: This is the noon paper published...

Prabhupāda: "Explosion." Mahāṁśa Swami is continuing this.

Garden Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Neophyte means that kaniṣṭha-adhikārī. One worships the Deity very nicely but he does not like to do good to others. Neither he knows who is Vaiṣṇava. He's neophyte. He is, in the arcanā, he's fixed up, he's doing very nicely. Arcāyām eva haraye. Yaḥ śraddhā..., pūjāṁ yaḥ śraddhayehate na tad-bhakteṣu. One does not understand who is bhakta. Na tad-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu. And how to do good to others. But he's doing the Deity worship very nicely. Sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ. He's prākṛta. But he can advance when his, by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, he understands "Here is a Vaiṣṇava. Here is an innocent man. He should be given some enlightenment." That is preacher. When he'll feel for others. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. Śoce tato vimukha-cetasa. "I am thinking of these rascals who are averse to you." Tato vimukha-cetasa. And that is Vaiṣṇava. Advanced devotee. For me I have no anxiety. Naivodvije para duratyaya-vai... There may be so many dangers. I don't care for them. Naiva udvije. "I am not disturbed by all these things." Udvije. Para duratyaya. Even it is very insurmountable, dangerous position, I don't care.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Yes, because trying to become. There is no question of becoming.

Indian man: To be innocent, to be ignorant is good then.

Prabhupāda: No. Therefore he should go to the master. Because he is ignorant, he must go to the master. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). But if you capture one, another person as master who is like me, then you are failure. Therefore we should accept the recognized master by everyone. Just like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is accepted as the master. Beginning from all sources. Vyāsadeva. Vyāsadeva is the original guru. So what Vyāsadeva has said about Kṛṣṇa. Then Vyāsadeva, later on Nārada Muni. And from Nārada Muni, Vyāsadeva. And from Vyāsadeva, Śukadeva Gosvāmī. And Śukadeva Gosvāmī is describing about Kṛṣṇa. Then paramparā, from Śukadeva Gosvāmī, others, Sūta Gosvāmī, like that. The knowledge is the same. Kṛṣṇa says that "I spoke about this knowledge to the sun-god. And he explained this knowledge to Manu." So in this way, apart from that, that I have not seen Manu I do not know. But when there is Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa said to Arjuna, "That's a fact." So you understand from Arjuna what Arjuna said. Why should you go to somebody else? That is written record, how Arjuna understood. That is the way. Why should we go to a person who does not know? One who knows, we should go. Yes. This is a fact, that Arjuna understood it.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: "Kṛṣṇa, when He was young, grown-up, He became contaminated by the gopīs." Therefore they do not touch that Kṛṣṇa. When He was below that age, Bal Kṛṣṇa, He is innocent; He has no desire. They think this is contaminated Kṛṣṇa, and Bal Kṛṣṇa is uncontaminated.

Hari-śauri: Then they don't accept Kṛṣṇa as being the supreme enjoyer.

Girirāja: I met someone who said that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is their theory: "Kṛṣṇa is contaminated. In His young age He's contaminated." Now then why... So-called advanced gentlemen say that "We don't want Kṛṣṇa of Vṛndāvana. We want Kṛṣṇa of Kurukṣetra." They say that. They don't want Kṛṣṇa of Vṛndāvana, dancing with the gopīs. Bankim Chandra Chatterjee, the great novelist, he had written on Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa-charitra. He has made distinction, that "Kṛṣṇa of Vṛndāvana is different from Kṛṣṇa of Kurukṣetra. Kṛṣṇa of Dvārakā is different." Like that.

Girirāja: Well, if the Vallabhas say that they only like Kṛṣṇa before He was contaminated, so what is the specialty of Kṛṣṇa? Everyone is uncontaminated in a young age.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Pradyumna: "It is said here that the cows used to moisten the pasturing land with milk because their milk bags were fatty and the animals were joyful. Do they not require, therefore, proper protection for a joyful life by being fed with a sufficient quantity of grass in the field? Why should men kill cows for their selfish purposes? Why should men not be satisfied with grains, fruits and milk, which combined together can produce hundreds and thousands of palatable dishes? Why are there slaughterhouses all over the world to kill innocent animals? Mahārāja Parīkṣit, grandson of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, while touring his vast kingdom, saw a black man attempting to kill a cow. The king at once arrested the butcher and chastised him sufficiently. Should not a king or executive head protect the lives of the poor animals who are unable to defend themselves? Is this humanity? Are not the animals of a country citizens also? Then why are they allowed to be butchered in organized slaughterhouses? Are these the signs of equality, fraternity, and nonviolence? Therefore, in contrast with the modern, advanced, civilized form of government, an autocracy like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's is by far superior to a so-called democracy in which animals are killed and a man less than an animal is allowed to cast votes for another less-than-animal-man."

Prabhupāda: That's all (laughing) we have said. You can do one thing. You have got nim tree?

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes. And all these rubbish things we are finishing. "Yes, it is brainwashing, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), cleansing the core of the heart, all mistaken ideas." Speak in the court like that. "And see how we are being appreciated by scholarly section. Here is our book. Read if you have got time and see the opinion. It is really brainwashing, but for the good. Everything requires cleansing—for good. If bad impression, bad ideas, are washed, why do you protest? Let it be done. Give us freedom. It is brainwashing, but for the good, washing for good. Just like you wash your cloth. Do you think it is bad? Dirty cloth, if it is washed nicely with soap and water, who will protest against that? 'Oh, why you are cleansing your dirty clothes?' That is another foolishness. Everyone, every gentleman, every civilized man, washes his clothes with soap and water to become more refreshed. So we are giving this civilization... Actually it is brainwashing, but for the good. And see our example. The boys and girls whom you are charging, 'Brainwash,' just see after brainwashing, how gentleman they have become. They have become moralist. They have become God conscious. They are clean outwardly. Their fooding is so innocent and so nutritious. So why do you check it? Bring your plate and our plate. Now judge. Which is better? You taste. Halavā, puri, samosa, kachori, vegetable—one plate; and boiled meat with salt and black pepper... So taste now which is better."

Evening Darsana -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes, weekly.

Guest (1): So spiritually they are innocent, comparing with India. We have become complicated after passing through many cultural ups and downs.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Due to these blind leaders. You see Bhagavad-gītā.

Guest (2): But, sir, Gandhi told that "You read Gītā."

Prabhupāda: He did not know himself. (laughs) That is the pity. He has spoken in this Gītā lecture that "My imagination of Kṛṣṇa is different from Bhagavad-gītā." A Kṛṣṇa is a subject matter of imagination. Have you read his lecture on Gītā?

Guest (1): Gītā-pravacana.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Gītā-pra..., is Vinobha.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: There is one book on modern religions, and he discusses yourself, Your Divine Grace, on one page, and he says that your politics are naive. He said, "It is naive, too innocent to think that we can unite the world this way under God."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: "But it's very complex situation that has to be dealt with."

Prabhupāda: Then why you are trying United Nation, rascal? It may be complex, but we must try for it in the proper way. That is humanity. Why you are attempting United Nation? You know it is complex. But you do not know how to unite. This is my position. Unite on Kṛṣṇa center. Then you'll be successful. You are already trying for uniting, unity, but you do not know how to unite.

Satsvarūpa: Just like you say there has to be a universal center.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Hm. That is going on. Big, big patent medicine, they will explain scientifically and give to the doctor and make experiment, and they will go on making experiment. I know this. This is their business. They'll write, they will call for the medical students—they have learned new, new words—and they'll pay to make a literature with bombastic scientific word, and they'll prepare literature. This literature will be distributed and give their medicine, and they may pay them for false propaganda. This is going on to introduce new patent medicine. I know that. Simply water they will inject to get money. The patients have come, innocent, illiterate—"How want to be...? Do you want to be cured very quickly or little less?" He's a laborer. He says, "Yes, sir, if you cure me." "So then injection will be required." He has no disease, and they'll give some water injection, yes, and take fee. Because as soon as there is question injection, he'll charge at least four rupees, five rupees. He has no disease. They will inject water and take four, five rupees. In India I have seen.

Room Conversation -- February 10, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: ...here is envious. So envious, upekṣā, means they should not be associated. Īśvare tad-adhīneṣu bāliśeṣu dviṣatsu ca. Four division: God, īśvara; and tad-adhīneṣu. Devotees, those who have accepted... (break) That is devotee. Bāliśa, those who are innocent. Preaching...

Jayapatākā: Like child, bāliśa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They should be trained up. And dviṣatsu, envious. Four division. So four divisions you have to treat in different ways. Prema, Lord, prema, love. Maitrī, friendship with devotees. Kṛpā bāliśu, those who are innocent, the kṛpā. Let them learn. And upekṣā. As soon as come to the dviṣat, no cooperation. Keep aloof. So when we try to keep aloof from the envious, that is not our enviousness. That is just to avoid trouble for preaching work. Not that we hate them. But because... When you avoid a snake, it does not mean I hate the snake, but because he is harmful we have to take precaution. This is the statement of Bhāgavatam. And when you are in the mahā-bhāgavata stage, first-grade, that time, paramahaṁsa, nobody's enemy, nobody's friend. Everyone... That we cannot imitate. It is not... Preacher, even if he's mahā-bhāgavata, he comes to the second stage. Just like Guru Mahārāja. He's mahā-bhāgavata, but still he had to come to the second stage. He had to take precaution. That is natural.

Room Conversation -- February 10, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Ah hah, ah, yes.

Jayapatākā: That... So many devotees are very innocent. They'll fall prey. They'll be impressed by some fancy talking and then can be misled.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayapatākā: But Your Divine Grace is very expert in very carefully training them up stage by stage.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayapatākā: But other, they like to go right to the higher philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Last night I could not work.

Arundhati: Pradyumna just gave me a tape. It must have been from the other night?

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So long we are adhīra, there is no chance of going back home, back to Godhead. This is the tapasya, to remain dhīra. There are many causes of becoming adhīra. But the causes may not disturb us. Then dhīra. Dhīradhīra-jana-priyau priya-karau. Haridāsa Ṭhākura, just like-dhīra. There was cause, enough cause. He was young man, and a young prostitute, very beautiful, came at midnight and offered her body to Haridāsa Ṭhākura. He said, "Yes, very good proposal. You sit down. Let me finish my chanting. I shall enjoy." This is dhīra. For three nights she tried and failed and she became surrendered. "Sir, this was my motive. I was sent by such and such person." Haridāsa Ṭhākura, "Yes, I knew all these things. I would have gone long ago, but you are innocent. Your business is this. You came. So I wanted to try to do some good to you. So better you have come to your senses. Now you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. I am leaving." So, dhīra. This material world means so long we'll have a pinch of material desire, we'll have to take birth. Kṛṣṇa will give us full facility to satisfy our senses in various ways. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). Full facilities. "Enjoy.

Morning Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Cheater, one must be due to ignorance. Generally one who is fool, he commits criminality. No sane man does it. Sane means he knows what is what. He does not commit mistake. But to commit mistake means he's insane, ignorant. That is not innocence-ignorance, foolish.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a difference between ignorance and innocence.

Prabhupāda: Innocence, he..., like a child. But ignorant means he has no knowledge; he is animal. So what about the advertisement? He has not done?

Hari-śauri: The book advertisement? Did you see that? Prabhupāda wrote out an advertisement, "Read Hare Kṛṣṇa books, worldwide Hare Kṛṣṇa books, and be happy." Then he listed all the books and where to buy them from.

Prabhupāda: And I gave him 22,000 rupees.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Purchased title. These deprogrammers are doing very active campaign work by getting entry into the schools, the public schools, to speak to the children in the age groups of twelve, between twelve and fifteen, junior high school, high school age. And they're making presentations to them about these different groups like ours, to beware of our groups. To beware of our groups. In other words, it's actually very bad because these children are innocent, and from a very young age now they're being told, "Watch out for the Hare Kṛṣṇas. They will brainwash you." Of course, that makes us even more appealing.

Prabhupāda: That is our advertisement.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Because when a young man, when a child is told by his... When a child is told by his parents, "Don't do something..."

Prabhupāda: They'll do it.

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That he should act simply for the benefit of the guru. This is the process. He has no personal interest. He'll go by the order of guru to beg alms from different householders and... They are innocent children. They'll go, ask, "Mother, give me some alms." And the mother also knows that "My child or his child, they are all neighbors' child. They will give." And whatever collection is there, he'll bring it to guru. So he does not claim that "I have collected. It is my property." No. It is guru's property. This is the first training. He works so hard to collect, but the property belongs to the guru. Guror hitam. This is first training. And that is the meaning of karmaṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu kadācana. That gentleman was quoting this. He does not know what is the meaning. He... Karmaṇy e... He is engaged to work, to collect. Just like you are doing that. You are, whole day you are working for the selling books, but you don't make a farthing even out of the profit. That is for the guror hitam, for the benefit of guru.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Asad-grāhān: "There is no God. By science we shall do everything. We shall..." What is this? A mad crazy fellow. And this is going on all over. "Test tube... We shall... Test tube..." Simply set of madmen. And influencing innocent. The rascal, whole civilization, they are. It is a horrible condition. All rascals. And the big rascals, they are enjoying. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). Just like a big rascal, a lion is very big, important thing in the forest. What is this? He's animal. So they create importance of this animal. One big animal is being praised by a small animal. That's all. But the whole civilization is animal. And because the small animals are praising the big animals, does it mean it is human society? That is going on. The Mr. Nixon, (laughs) he's an animal, and Mr. John is praising him. That's all. Both of them are animals. Mūḍha. Big animals and small animals. That's all. So we have to stop this. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So am I right when I speak, say like that?

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa is giving you an opportunity to become more advanced. Take to that.

Hari-śauri: Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: You are intelligent. You have understood. Now try to transfer knowledge to the innocent persons. There must be father. That you are convinced?

Hari-śauri: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: So you cannot deny, "There is no God." That is not possible. The earth is the mother. They say "mother country," "mother earth." And everything is coming out from the earth. Beginning from the aquatic animals, grass, they are coming from material elements, either from water or from earth. That we can see. And they are coming from fire also, but we cannot see. But they are. It is common sense. If life can come from water, fire... Fire is also one of the elements, five elements. So from fire also... Therefore it is said, nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ. Because it is coming from fire, therefore fire cannot harm the living entity. So mother is there, children are there. Where is the father? This is the logic. And the father is coming personally, "Yes, I am father." Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). Then where is the chance for denying the existence of father? No. There is no chance, there is no logic. And the father is so rich, so powerful, so kind. And you are not taking shelter of your father. Your actual father, so great, so rich, so intelligent, so opulent.

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No. The real thing he does not know. We know. We know on the basis of śāstra, authorities, ācāryas, so many. And what is your support? Your support is yourself. Then everyone will do that. His support is himself. Everyone will become authority. "I think, I believe." What is this nonsense, your belief? These things should be stopped now. (Hindi) Misleading, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). These conditioned souls, very stringently bound up hands and legs by the laws of nature, they are trying to lead the human society. This rascaldom must be stopped. You do not know. Say you do not know. That's all. Why you mislead others? Giving them false knowledge. If you do not know even the distinction between the living entity and the material elements... You are trying to prove the living entity is also combination of these material elements, chemicals. Such a rascal you are. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly said, apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām, jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho yayedam (BG 7.5). It is very important thing. You do not know anything about it. Kṛṣṇa again says, nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ nainaṁ chindanti śastrāṇi. Negative definition. Still, you are so rascal, you do not understand, and you are misleading innocent persons. So combine together as many as possible and go and challenge.

Room Conversation -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They do that. This is going on. They do actually, I know. Unnecessarily, little distilled water, and take from him five rupees. If he gives him mixture, he cannot charge from him. But these innocent persons, they have earned. "You want to be treated very quickly or slowly?" He says that "I am earning twenty rupees per day. If required, I will give you so much money. And give me quickly." Everything cheating and... I know. I was in the medical line. Dr. Bose admitted. He was talking with me very freely because I was just like his son. "My dear boy, I sometimes cheat. We are most sinful." He said like that. "As soon as we find some rich person, unnecessarily we harass."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the business of the doctors and the lawyers.

Prabhupāda: Right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How to draw on the condition longer and longer to make more money.

Prabhupāda: And if the client is rich, draw.

Morning Conversation -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They created untouchables, repressed, sidual,(?) so many partition.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who created them?

Prabhupāda: Britishers. Then, when Gandhi tried to accommodate them, then rupture between Hindu-Muslim, Muslim League, riot. To keep their kingdom they were doing... So many innocent persons were massacred. Anyāyena artha-sañcayan. The Britishers committed so many sinful activities. They will suffer.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now they're suffering for it.

Prabhupāda: Everyone is doing.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Duty, profit, so on, so on. And all these big, big millionaires, they are exacting money from the poor like that, and when they have got money, they spend little for daridra-nārāyaṇa. "Oh, very big man." And our program? Why you making daridra? Daridra? Our policy is this, that "Why should you make him daridra?" First of all make him daridra, and then take credit—"daridra-nārāyaṇa"? Just see how cheating is going on. But we are projecting this path for them: let them remain in their home, produce their own food only and cloth and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is our policy. Our policy means Kṛṣṇa's policy. Let them have sufficiently to eat, and they'll be all satisfied. If the mind is Kṛṣṇa conscious, then they don't want anything, either liquor or meat or anything. No. This is the advantage. And this is not social... What is that? That first of all drag him from the innocent life of village and engage him in the factory in the hope of getting more money, and then he's habituated to liquor. When he cannot pay, they purchase this poison and die.

Room Conversation -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Others. But they felt an ecstasy. So continue this ideal, and they will be very innocent and transcendental. It has nothing to do with material contact. Material contamination cannot touch it. Your country, very vast and big. Some of them have become... So farm there.(?) Hare Kṛṣṇa. But during Ratha-yātrā, everyone will be shown. Such a nice festival. Everyone will be forced to give. That is beginning. (break) Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good. She's interested in every single aspect of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Special feature of our temple, you'll see, younger generation, boys and girls from respectable families, they are coming. Did you mark this?

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, first of all answer this child. Then become scientist. So there is no professor.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, to them, some of our statements seem very childish and innocent.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Some of the things that we say. Just like why is the water darker at daytime? Because the night has entered the water. They say, "Oh, that is..."

Upendra: They say it's mythology.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mythology or childish. "Only a child would believe such a thing." But it's common sense. They have no faith, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Go and take rest. (break) Because I am very much fond of traveling, touring, they might have caused some danger. So Kṛṣṇa has detained me. What do you think?

Room Conversation -- October 9, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Anyway, Kṛṣṇa has given us so many innocent boys. Yaśodā-nandana Mahārāja, teach them...

Yaśodā-nandana: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: ...like you so far as chanting.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We are also your innocent boys, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Let there be struggle for existence for this purpose.

Brahmānanda: Let there be struggle for existence for this purpose. For spreading the movement?

Prabhupāda: What is the time?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Time is 9:15.

Prabhupāda: Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau.