Expressions researched:
"ingredient"
|"ingredients"
Prabhupāda: Then above water there is air.
Janārdana: Air, fire, ether. Water, fire, air, ether, and then this pradhāna. So pradhāna is split up into the three: ahaṇkāra, mahat-tattva and... What's...?
Prabhupāda: Pradhāna is material ingredients, material cause.
Janārdana: Material cause.
Prabhupāda: And prakṛti...
Janārdana: Is the efficient cause.
Prabhupāda: Efficient cause.
Janārdana: That is in the Brahma-saṁhitā.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Now, who is not drinking water? The taste of water is Kṛṣṇa, so who has not seen Kṛṣṇa? They say, "Can you show me God?" If you don't see God, then who will show you? Here is God. You are drinking water. Here is God, sunshine. Those who cannot see Kṛṣṇa is God... Because to see Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality God, it requires many, many thousands of years tapasya to understand Kṛṣṇa. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). After many, many births, one can understand Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is not so easy. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). Out of many thousands of men, one may be interested how to make this life perfect. And those who actually attain perfection, out of many thousands of them, one can understand Kṛṣṇa. So to understand Kṛṣṇa is not easy job, easy job. So one who has understood "Here is Kṛṣṇa with Rādhārāṇī; let me serve," that position is very exalted position. That is not ordinary position. But one who is unfortunate not to come to that position to understand Kṛṣṇa, for them Kṛṣṇa is giving the prescription you see here. You drink water, the taste, now just think, "Here is Kṛṣṇa." In this way, if you think of Kṛṣṇa in your daily activities, then one day you will be able to understand what is Kṛṣṇa. Actually, Kṛṣṇa is everything because whatever... This table is also Kṛṣṇa because it is a manifestation of Kṛṣṇa's energy. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ mano khaṁ buddhir eva ca (BG 7.4). What is the ingredient of this table? Earth, water, air, fire. Kṛṣṇa says, "That is My manifestation of My energy."
Prabhupāda: We know that the fruit, flowers, or grains, or milk, whatever we are offering to Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa has given us. You cannot manufacture these things, nice oranges, in factory. You cannot manufacture rice or wheat. Actually, God has given. That is God consciousness. Anything, even those who are eating animals, they cannot manufacture animals in the factory. That is also God's creation. So in the Vedas it is said, eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān, "That one supreme living being is supplying food or necessities of life to all living entities." That's a fact. He is the maintainer. He is the giver of food. We are simply handling. That's all. Everything. Even this house or your car, everything. The material ingredients are supplied by God. The intelligence is also given by God. So by God-given intelligence, by God-given ingredients, you are preparing something, and you are claiming that "It is mine." Why? Suppose if I give somebody intelligence, "You make this table like this," I give ingredients, I give him money, then after the table is manufactured, if the carpenter says, "It is mine," is that proper ? I have given you money, I have given you the wood, I have given you the intelligence, I have maintained you. How it belongs to you? So this is going on. Everything God's, and we are claiming "Mine." Ahaṁ mameti, janasya moho 'yam (SB 5.5.8).
Prabhupāda: Yes. Rādhā-Dāmodara is kind. And where this rascal will go? (laughter) After all, somehow or other, he is giving some service to Rādhā-Dāmodara, managing. Api cet sudarācāraḥ. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare. (break) ...should think that we have got to say so many things to the people. Huh? About this. So take these ingredients, assimilate them in the brain and distribute.
Woman devotee: People like it when we speak so strongly to them.
Prabhupāda: They like. And you have got so many ingredients. So now you realize how many things you have to speak to the world, economic development, everything. We are not simply so-called religious people. We know everything in right way. Everything, what is to be... That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all round, all included.
Revatīnandana: The people who listen, they become very impressed. At many programs, the students, after I finish speaking and I answer some questions, they realize that we know something very completely. They become very interested. They come around and bring more questions. Very nice.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And you will get all ideas from our books. That is Indian śaṅkha? That in your hand, bangle, white bangle.
Prabhupāda: They'll like. Enough ingredients to preach. Simply one has to become intelligent how to express. The, what is called, outlines of thought are already there. You read one line, you can speak half an hour. They are so full of meaning. Provided you can express the meanings. So we are not reading all the lines. We are going quickly from one śloka to another. Otherwise, if we explained each line of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam... Just like my Guru Mahārāja explained the first śloka for three months in Dacca. (break) ...after this verse, he explained for three months. Caitanya Mahāprabhu explained ātmārāma-śloka in sixty-four ways. That is described in Teachings of Lord Caitanya. Sixty-four ways. Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya explained in nine ways. He did not touch on those nine ways. Setting aside those nine ways, personally He explained in sixty-four ways. Formerly such scholars were there, such religious persons were there. Therefore people were happy. What these rascals speak? Now there is Freud's philosophy and Darwin's theory.
Revatīnandana: It's nice because here people will listen. In India they won't listen, and in America they can't listen. They're so degraded. (end)
Prabhupāda: Because in the Bhagavad-gītā we hear, mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanam that God is in everyone's heart as Supersoul. Now, I am thinking of getting something. So God knows immediately that "He wants to have this," so He gives me the necessary thing which appears to me as chance, without knowing God. The things are supplied by God because He is giving me all facilities to enjoy this material world to my heart's content by supplying all the ingredients. That is the material condition. So these foolish persons are taking as chance, but it is not chance. God is omnipotent. As soon as He understands that I want this, He gives me some facility so that I get it. So it is not chance. It is by arrangement of superior authority. But because they are atheists, they have no sense of God consciousness, they are taking as chance, that necessity creates that chance; automatically it is coming. Not automatically. Chance does not mean automatically. I cannot see something, but all of a sudden falls... Just like I am hungry, I want some food. So Kṛṣṇa knows it that you want some... Some way or other, the food comes to me. So it is the arrangement of Kṛṣṇa, but I see it is chance: "I was hungry and by chance the food has come." That is my less intelligence. It is not chance; it is plain. Otherwise you cannot adjust the meaning of chance in that way, that as soon as there is necessity, immediately the opportune chance comes before us.
Prabhupāda: So if this energy, electric energy, can work so wonderful, how much wonderful energies are there in Kṛṣṇa that He is working and it is coming out, automatically. You say..., cannot explain, you will say it is nature. No. The same working is there. Just like if you paint one flower, you have to take the brush, color, and nicely... You cannot do as nice. So Kṛṣṇa has also to do the same thing, but the energy is so fine and quick, svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. Kṛṣṇa says and this will go on. Just like if you want to create something, a house, you have to apply, your engineer, your contractor, the ingredients. But Kṛṣṇa also will do the same thing. But His energies are so fine and expert, He desires, "Let there be a skyscraper," immediately there is. But the process is there. Don't think it has come automatically. The same thing. If you want to speak to a friend a thousand miles away, you have to go there and find him, or he has to come. The process is there. By electricity, immediately he comes. Is it not be possible? Process is there that he has to come or you have to go. But by electricity, it is shortened. Similarly, the working capacity is going there, but it is so shortened and perfect, you see, "Oh, it has come automatically by nature." (indistinct) The process is so nice and short. That is real explanation. Process is there. You cannot say that... It appears like miracle because your brain cannot accommodate how quickly all these things come. You have got poor brain, you cannot accommodate. You are thinking, "If I have to..., I have to paint this, simply painting I have to take so much time."
Prabhupāda: Yes. The, ah... Do you accept it He is the original scientist?
Martin: I can accept the fact that Kṛṣṇa, being God, created everything which science studies now.
Prabhupāda: Yes, right. That's right. That is the fact. That is the fact. So despite my becoming a scientist, I am a subordinate scientist. Our, my scientific research is going on under the direction of Kṛṣṇa. Because the experiment which you are making in the laboratory, the ingredients, they are produced from Kṛṣṇa. The mind with which you are working, that is produced by Kṛṣṇa. The direction you are receiving from Kṛṣṇa. Therefore when you prepare something, that is Kṛṣṇa's production. Kṛṣṇa is indirect cause and you are direct cause. The other day while coming on the plane you told me that they are trying to make copy of the brain of...
Devotee: Einstein.
Prabhupāda: Einstein. So still, if you can copy, even if you can copy, you are not the original scientist, because that brain of Einstein is already created. So original creation is God's. So you can imitate. So you are imitator scientist. Is it not?
Martin: It's true.
Prabhupāda: Wire, that is also lying somewhere. Nobody cares. But one gentleman, he collected all these three things and prepared a string instrument. He joined the bamboo with the dry cover of squash and fitted the string and it began to ting, ting, ting. It is called ektara. There is instrument in India it is called ektara. The example is that so many things individually lying useless. But if somebody knows how to combine them, it becomes an instrument, very sweet. Very sweet to hear. Similarly, in this world, so many things are lying dead and frustrated. But if they are combined together by an expert, it becomes useful. So although this world is dead body, when there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it becomes enlivened. That is our movement. We are trying to inject Kṛṣṇa consciousness in everything dead within this world. (Prabhupāda drinks) Now just see all these ingredients, strawberry and..., what is that?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Orange juice.
Prabhupāda: Orange and honey...
Devotee (2): Peach.
Prabhupāda: ...and peach, they are natural products from the jungle. Nobody goes to manufacture, automatically comes out. But when they are combined together, it is nectarean. None of them is manufactured by man, either this honey or the strawberry or the pineapple. Given by God. So in every step, you can perceive the hands of God. Every step. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This nice taste you cannot create by any chemical combination. It is not possible. Because God's hand is there, it has become so tasteful drink. Man cannot make. This flower, man cannot make.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: You'll be going away.
Prabhupāda: Home-made soap, you can make?
Devotee: I could make it if I found out how. I don't know the ingredients.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Devotee: I don't know the ingredients, but I could find out the ingredients and the process, I could try.
Prabhupāda: Who can make home-made soap. You can?
Devotee (11): We will be making in...
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Devotee (11): ...the Spiritual Sky business. We'll be making. It's the same business, this soap, I think.
Prabhupāda: No, it is not needed.
Devotee: (indistinct) (fireworks explode)
Prabhupāda: It is loud.
Prabhupāda: Because it is not due to my personality. I am presenting the truth as it is. It will appeal. Just like if you prepare some foodstuff with nice ingredients, it will be appealing to everyone, and if you prepare something obnoxious, it may be appealing to a certain section, not to all.
Guest (2): What can appreciation of Kṛṣṇa do for the Americans (indistinct)?
Prabhupāda: That, that I have repeatedly said, that you Americans, you are..., you have already the grace of the Lord. According to our Vedic formula, when a man is born in rich family he is understood to be possessing the grace of the Lord. So you Americans, you have got sufficient riches, you are sons of rich men. So this is the grace of God, janma aiśvarya, to take birth in a high family, to possess riches; janmaiśvarya śruta (SB 1.8.26), to become learned scholar. Just like you are going to the moon planet. Your scientific knowledge is advanced. And śrī, śrī means beauty. So you are beautiful also. So considering all these four points, it is to be understood that you are in favorable condition, favorable consideration of the Absolute Truth Supreme Personality of Godhead. Now, if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness, then all your these material opulences plus Kṛṣṇa consciousness makes your life perfect.
Prabhupāda: Free choice. What is preordained? You are here of your free choice. If you like, you can sit down and talk with me, and if you don't like, then you can go. That is your free choice. Free choice makes destiny; if I act in goodness, then my future is good. And if I act badly, my future is bad. That is destiny. Man is the architect of his own destiny. If you are educated, your future is nice, and if you remain foolish, then your future is bad. Future destiny depends on present action. This life is an opportunity to make the next life, and if we behave like human beings, then in our next life we will go back home, back to Godhead. But if we behave like animals, then in the next life we will take animal bodies. That's all. All this is very nicely described in Bhagavad-gītā. The conclusion is that human beings are meant for understanding God, but if we waste our time understanding dog, and if we become attached to dog, then we will become dogs in our next life. And if we are attached to God, we become like God, in our next life. The choice is ours.
"All of them—as they surrender unto Me—I reward accordingly. Everyone follows My path in all respects, O son of Pṛthā." God is everything, and we can associate with Him according to our choice. The ability to choose, or our conscience, is given to us in the human form so we can utilize it. All the ingredients are there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Count, count. That's all. Analytically. What are the ingredients? Analytical studies. That is called saṅ-khyā, count. Suppose you take this sand. You count. It is called sāṅkhya. So, from the saṅkhyā, the word, it comes sāṅkhya, knowing analytically. This is sāṅkhya philosophy. So you are also sāṅkhya philosopher. Everyone is sāṅkhya philosopher. We are also sāṅkhya philosopher. Because we are counting the material elements, as Kṛṣṇa says: bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). We are analyzing: "This is land, this is water, this is air, this is sunshine, fire." Then I am counting with my mind, intelligence, ego. And further, I do not know. Kṛṣṇa says: "There is further." That is the living force. That they do not know. They are thinking: "Life is combination of these matters." But Kṛṣṇa says: "No." Apareyam. This is inferior. The superior energy is living entity. So we are also sāṅkhya philosopher. But we are taking direction from Kṛṣṇa, and they're making their own attempt. That is the difference. They're depending on their own intelligence. We don't depend on my own intelligence. We depend on Kṛṣṇa's intelligence. That is the difference. Then, if Kṛṣṇa is perfect, then my intelligence is perfect. I may be not perfect, but because I take Kṛṣṇa's intelligence, therefore I'm perfect.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is an experiment that was done by Pasteur, a French scientist a long time ago. In that experiment he boiled some, I think it was water. Because normally the water, without boiling there are so many microorganisms, small, small living entities, that can be detected under microscope. He wanted to know whether life started from some ingredients inside or just life started from life. So he boiled this solution and he kept for some time under very careful covering so that there is no contamination from outside. And then there was no life. He couldn't find any organisms. So they said, "Life starts from matter." That is one of the experiments.
Prabhupāda: What is that experiment?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Boil water first of all. Without boiling water, they can detect so many organisms, small, small bacteria and these small, small living entities under microscope. But when they would boil it and it kept for some time, and then they tested, there was no organisms.
Prabhupāda: But that microscope is imperfect. That is our contention. Because the living entities, the dimension of the living entity is 1/10,000th part of the top of your hair. So what you can see?
Prabhupāda: Aśoṣyo 'yam adāhyo 'yam. Adāhyaḥ.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But by putting proper chemicals, then they can see again. The ingredients necessary for the survival of the living entities, the necessary amounts, like source of protein, source of carbon, then the life is again started.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Wherefrom the life came?
Karandhara: It's not started. It becomes suitable again for the spirit soul. So they come.
Kṛṣṇa-Kāntī: They're just changing the living conditions.
Karandhara: Like if you put honey, ants will come.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is good example. That does not mean the honey is producing ants. If life is coming from matter then why you are putting chemicals? That is also matter. Life will come.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say, without the chemicals, they cannot see life.
Prabhupāda: The chemical is also matter. Just like with one matter you make... Just like we mix so many matters. Turmeric, salt, spices, they are all matter. But mixing together, the condition is that it becomes a sweet vegetable. Similarly, the chemical is also matter. And water is also matter. So if life comes from matter, then it will come from the water. Why...? There is no use of mixing another chemicals? And it will actually be: Then let the water remain for some time.
Prabhupāda: Yes. These chemical elements will already help him, by nature's way. Just like you put a seed on the earth. So other things necessary for fructifying that seed, that is already there. They will come to help it. That is already there. Just like the living entity in seed form is impregnated within the womb of the mother. The mother has got within the womb all ingredients. Body will develop. On account of the presence of the living entity, by the laws of nature, everything is there. A dog is forming dog's body, man is forming man's body. Why? Because everything is there. A cat is forming cat's body in the womb of the... Yathā yonir yathā bījam. You haven't got to search out. It is already there.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So they may ask, "How do I know that the living entities..."
Prabhupāda: What you know? You do not know first of all. Therefore you have to take information from the śāstra. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). This is there. The jīva is doing something, and higher authorities are giving him the result: "Now you have done this. Now you live in this way, in condition."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That part we can explain by... When they ask, "How do I know that the living entities...?"
Prabhupāda: No. God supplies the ingredients. That just like you are working on stone. So who has supplied the stone?
David Wynne: Yes, this I can understand because it's...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then you are working on the stone with your intelligence, but who has supplied you the intelligence? You are working with your hand, but who has supplied you the hand? In this way, if we consider that everything belongs to God; therefore the result must be given to God. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
David Wynne: Sometimes one gets in the way. Sometimes one, when one's own wishes intrude, one can spoil what's being made by trying to put one's own ideas at the wrong time. But at other times, even with somebody who's as bad at it as me, the, something else does come through, doesn't it? The, the, what should be there if one senses and stands back and lets it come.
Prabhupāda: What is that? Sometimes it is not successful?
Prabhupāda: The same relationship. We are all sons of God. Therefore, simultaneously, we are one and different. As son, the ingredient, the same. But he is father, we are son, we are different. This is called the philosophy of acintya-bhedābheda. Bheda means different, and abheda means one. So simultaneously one and different.
Mr. Wadell: May I ask you another question, which is, I have a mortal father, a man, who you know my parents, father and mother. Do you think that my father is in any way different in his parentage of me from God in His parentage of me.
Prabhupāda: No, everyone. Not only your father, your grandfather, your, or grandson, the same relationship: simultaneously one and different... Because we are spirit soul and God is the supreme soul. All the souls have come, emanated from Him. He is the supreme soul and Paramātmā. The exact word used in the Vedic language, Paramātmā, Parabrahma, Parameśvara. This word param. Param means supreme.
Mr. Wadell: I accept that without any trouble. There's no...
Prabhupāda: The difference is God... In the Vedas it is stated that God is just like a person like you and me. Just like we are persons, we are talking face to face, similarly, God is also a person. But... We are also persons. But what is the difference between these two classes of persons.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also ingredient of pāna. Pāna, it is called pāna.
Guest (2): I offered Vaikuṇṭhajī supāri. You see he won't accept it. So I thought, well, it only helps digestion because it only brings the saliva in the mouth.
Prabhupāda: Well, wine is also very digestive. (laughter) An appetizer also. All Europeans, they take first of all wine to eat voraciously. I see in the airplane. And after taking wine, they eat so much.
Guest (8): And then they go for dancing to digest it.
Prabhupāda: Simple life, simple life, innocent life... Because after all, we have to give up this material world. If we become attached, then we'll have to take birth again. Nivṛtta-tarṣair... There is another verse quoted by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. It is very difficult, but there is possibility. Niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. Bhagavad-bhajana, those who are eager to go back to home, back to Godhead... Pāraṁ paraṁ jigamiṣor bhava-sāgarasya. On the other side of this material world. For him... Viṣayiṇāṁ sandarśanam atha yoṣitāṁ ca, hā hanta hanta viṣa-bhakṣaṇato 'py asādhu (CC Madhya 11.8). For such person to be attracted by these material things is not good. It is suicidal. So material things, viṣaya, simply increasing the method of eating, sleeping, sex life and defense. This is material activity.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. There are varieties. Ānanda, ānanda, pleasure means varieties. Variety is the mother of enjoyment. Without varieties, just like we prepare from grains, sugar, ghee, hundreds of varieties. If you simply give grain, ghee and sugar, it will not be enjoyable. But the same thing, you prepare in varieties and give you a plate, oh, you'll say, "Oh, so nice thing." The ingredients are the same. Grains, ghee and sugar, that's all. Similarly, this material world, the ingredients are the same. Namely five gross elements and three subtle elements, finer. Earth, water, air, fire, sky. These are gross elements. And mind, intelligence, ego these are finer elements. Combined together this material world has come. The brain behind is a living entity. Just like we are using these ingredients, these five elements: earth, water, air, fire, sky, making this building, making this table, making this chair, vase, so many things, harmonium, pictures, book. So the ingredients are the same, but my brain is working in different varieties. My brain or your brain. Human brain. Similarly this material cosmic manifestation is full of varieties. The brain behind it is Kṛṣṇa. That is stated, you have read our Bhagavad-gītā?
Guest: I've taken a look.
Prabhupāda: There is a verse.
Prabhupāda: No. The soul is a living being. So nature is supplying material and he's molding in different forms. Just like earth is not man's creation. Earth is God's creation, or it is product of God's energy. But we are using this earth and molding in different forms, different pots, different dolls. So ingredients are supplied by God. Nature means God's energy. We simply handle them. We cannot produce anything, we transform only. Just like this iron, we cannot produce iron. It is gotten from the mine, iron bar. Now we have transformed into different forms. Because we have got creative energy like God, not very great, in very minute quantity. So as God has created by His intelligence, the whole universe—we are creating this table, this pillow, this harmonium—that's all. What you are finding?
Śrutakīrti: I was just looking at that verse again.
Prabhupāda: Which verse?
Śrutakīrti: Mayādhyakṣeṇa...
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Prabhupāda: What is your opinion? What is your opinion? You are practical man. (break) That is later on, so 'ham. First of all, understand what you are aham, then so 'ham. You do not know what is aham. So these rascals, they do not know aham, and they're speaking, so 'ham. (break) When you understand yourself, then you understand God also. Then you'll understand that God and yourself are of the same ingredient, so 'ham. Just like if I say, so 'ham. "I am just like Indira Gandhi." Indira Gandhi is the big personality. So, "I am as good as Indira Gandhi." So this is applicable in this sense, that Indira Gandhi is Indian. I am also Indian. Indira Gandhi is a human being. I am also a human being. In this way, go on, analytical study. You'll find so many things, you are as good as Indira Gandhi. But still, you are not Indira Gandhi. So so 'ham means to understand that I am not this matter. I am the spirit soul, as good as the Supreme Lord. But that does not mean I am Supreme Lord, or as good as Supreme Lord. Qualitatively, I am one, not quantitatively. Just like a drop of water from the sea. (aside:) You can come here. (break) All the chemicals in the drop of the sea water, you'll find in the sea also. But still, the drop of water is not equal to the sea. So so 'ham means qualitatively one with God, the Supreme. That not means that "I am the Supreme Lord." That is nonsense.
Prabhupāda: ...the soul is individual. As I told yesterday that dead body has got the ingredients to produce life. But that the man who has left his body, you cannot produce him. That is the proof of individuality. That is the proof of individuality. Huh?
Bali Mardana: I was saying that they transplant the heart... After the first man, his soul has already gone, then they take his heart and put it into the other man, who has a weak heart. So all it means is that the soul is going from one heart to another heart, not that the soul, that they are taking the soul with it when they put the heart in.
Prabhupāda: He is destined to live in that body for a certain years. So you may change whatever you like.
Karandhara: The heart is just an instrument in the machine.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is a place.
Bali Mardana: Now it's very clear. (break)
Prabhupāda: Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). There is superior overlooking. That is Kṛṣṇa, anumantā, upadraṣṭā. Upadraṣṭā anumantā.
Prabhupāda: That all right, but the father's body is different. The father's pains and pleasure and the son's pains and pleasure are not the same. It may be that the father has given the ingredient of the body, but that does not mean the father's body and the son's body the same. Neither the mind is same, neither intelligence is same. It is all different. Otherwise why a son becomes disobedient to the father, "I don't agree with you"? That means, "Your intelligence, your mind, is different from my mind. I cannot agree with you." Therefore everything is different.
Devotee: They can accept that our bodies are changing now, but in the next life they have no experience of this.
Prabhupāda: No, next life, this is experience. You were a child, this is your next life.
Devotee: They can see this body change, but the next life, they cannot see.
Prabhupāda: That means you have no... You cannot see so many things. Does it mean that it does not exist? What is the value of your eyes? That I already explained. You cannot see. Now it is a misty. You cannot see anything. Does it mean your eyes are perfect. How you can see? Your eyes are not perfect. What you cannot see, you have to hear. Suppose in a distant place I cannot see. "What is that light?" I say. But if somebody knows, "Oh, that light is from..., there is a skyscraper building like this, and the light is coming." So I know what I cannot see, I can hear. Therefore what you do not see, next life, you have to hear from authority. That is stated in the Bhāgavata, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13)
Prabhupāda: Yes, born. The child is created. There was no child.
Karandhara: But the energy which makes up this body was always present.
Prabhupāda: That we also say, by the formation, when it takes place, it is created. Just like you prepare food. Why do you say, "prepare"? What is the meaning of "prepare"? The ingredients are there, but why do you say, "prepare food"? You cannot say... Huh? What is that?
Hṛdayānanda: Before you prepare it, that particular preparation...
Prabhupāda: That we say. The energy was...
Karandhara: That is just a conventional term in relationship to you. That is just relative to you, relative to your relationship with that food.
Prabhupāda: This is called impersonalism...
Karandhara: But the food was always there.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Dr. Patel: It animates the inferior prakṛti.
Prabhupāda: Yes, working, working. One is the worker, and another is the working ingredient, prakṛti.
Dr. Patel: Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat.
Prabhupāda: Jagat. Because...
Dr. Patel: That means the jagat is being held by that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because... This Bombay city is important because there are so many para-prakṛtis. If there was no living entity, who cares for the Bombay city?
Dr. Patel: So living entity is the para-prakṛti.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mr. Sar: Oh, living entity is the para-prakṛti.
Prabhupāda: Para. But prakṛti. But it is prakṛti. It is not puruṣa. Therefore this prakṛti is trying to become puruṣa here. That is illusion.
Prabhupāda: Go-kharaḥ, go-kharaḥ. That is in Bhāgavata. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhiḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma idya-dhīḥ (SB 10.84.13). You give him that śloka, (indistinct). So actually at the present moment the whole world is full of go-kharaḥ, that's all, animals. Everyone thinks in terms—"I am this body," that's all. He is not human being, but every so-called civilized man is thinking like that. So where is the civilization of human being? All go-kharaḥs, animals. (break) ...because if you keep all these ingredients, life will come. Is it not?
Pañcadraviḍa: When the soul is entering, they are all complete?
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. If you keep... A man is dead, and keep his body. So it will decompose, but the life will come. So many worms will come. So these are... If you say that chemicals, these material, then the chemicals are there, and life is coming. Now you take this chemical and prepare. You cannot say, "Although these chemicals are there, there is some deficiency. Therefore the life is not coming." No, why do you say like that? Life is coming. That man is not coming, but the life is coming. So these are ingredients for life. You prepare. You bring that man. Still, the rascal will say that life is made from matter. Not even gentlemen, what to speak of becoming scientist? You prepare. "No, in future we shall see." And he is getting Nobel Prize. Just see how the human society has become full of rascals, go-kharaḥ. They cannot prove; still they will insist, "Yes." And so far God is concerned, we learn from śāstra that God's two energies are working like heat and light. So energies are working, we can see.
Prabhupāda: This is the statement of Mr. Cowper. Man has created nothing. Suppose this building, man has created. But wherefrom the ingredient comes. Has man created? This stone, man has created? Eh? What do you think? Is this stone, creation of man?
Paramahaṁsa: No.
Prabhupāda: Then what... You have done the work of a laborer. That's all. You have taken ingredients from God and worked hard and transformed into a step. That's all. Your creation means just like carpenter creates a furniture. That's all. That is his creation. Then that is... The economic law says that man cannot create anything. He can simply transform. These trees, has man created these trees? Why do they claim man has created everything?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: But they will say that they made the garden.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: They will say that they made a very nice garden.
Prabhupāda: That's all. That is the business of gardener, servant, not creator. That is the business of the servant. Just like I keep a gardener servant, and "Do like this. Do like that."
Prabhupāda: No, no. City or country, that I don't say that Mr. Cowper is perfect in his statement. City is also created by God. City is also created by God. God has given you the ingredients, He has given you the intelligence, and you create. Eh? Wherefrom you get the intelligence? Eh? Who will answer this? Wherefrom the man gets his intelligence?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: From Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. What is the verse?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam...
Prabhupāda: Ah. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ. So He is sitting in everyone's heart, and He's giving intelligence. And because the intelligence comes from God, therefore one is more intelligent, one is less intelligent. Because intelligence is not his. It is by the mercy of God one gets more intelligence, one gets less intelligence. So intelligence is supplied by God.
Yogeśvara: Yet... But they claim to have found a way of making people biologically more intelligent now.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prabhupāda: No, after catching them from the forest, they kept within the bars, and no eating for at least one week. Then the trainer comes. Only whips. He comes, and open the doors and only: (makes sound) Flosh, flosh, flosh. So already he's hungry, weak, and he's whipped. In this way, he becomes fearful. As soon as the man comes, he becomes fearful. Then he gives him little food. In this way, after all it is animal, he thinks that "This man is my God. He can save me. He can kill me." Then he takes to him. Whatever he says, he takes. Similarly, if you do not give the ingredients for sense enjoyment, the mind will be controlled. That is the beginning. You simply... Don't give... The mind wants, "Now let me go to the restaurant." "No, sir." Beat him with shoes. Instead of going to the restaurant, he beats the mind with shoes. Then mind will not again say, "Go to the restaurant." That is called swami, gosvāmī. One who can control his mind, that is gosvāmī. We giving the title "Gosvāmī" But if you cannot control your mind, then you are unfit. Go means senses, and svāmī means master. One who can control the senses and master, he is gosvāmī. (pause) ...definition of gosvāmī there: vāco vegaṁ krodha-vegaṁ manasa-vegam udara-vegam upastha-vegam, etān vegān yo viṣaheta dhīraḥ pṛthivīṁ sa śiṣyāt (NOI 1). You have to control the impulse of speaking, vāco vegam, the impulse of becoming angry, vāco vegam, krodha-vegam. Then manasa-vegam, force of the mind. Then udara-vegam, the belly. Belly, already, although it is filled up, and as soon as there is some nice... Please fill up again, again. This you have to control, udara-vegam.
Prabhupāda: As soon as the question of jīva, living entity, there, this, mine, you can say it is nature. And other things? Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarva... (BG 3.27). Prakṛti, nature, is doing. Everything explained. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā: (Bs. 5.44) "There is an energy which can create, maintain, and destroy the whole cosmic manifestation." Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā (Bs. 5.44), one. There is one energy. Chāyeva yasya vibharti bhuvanāni durgā: "That energy is working just like shadow under the direction of Kṛṣṇa." That is big energy, but that energy... Just like atomic energy, big energy, but it is done by a scientist, not that the ingredients automatically mix together and become an atomic... No. That is not possible. Big, big brain, scientist, they are dealing. Similarly this big energy-creation, maintenance, and destruction of nature—that nature is called Durgā. Durgā. Duḥ. Duḥ means difficult, and gā means going or to understand. To understand the laws of material nature is very difficult. That is called Durgā. Or Durgā means... Durgā means this is like a fort. We are kept within this, and the superintendent is Durgā. Therefore Durgā's picture is ten hands, ten directions with different kinds of weapon protecting. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā, icchānu... (Bs. 5.44). Now the conclusion. Icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate sā: "She is working not independently, according to the desire of somebody else." Who is that somebody? Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **: "That is Govinda. I am worshiping Him." And this is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: But it is your field. Not that when you go out of the field one of them becomes you. No, that is not. That is individuality. When you leave, you leave your field. That's all.
Bali Mardana: So when we leave the field, then the other cells in the body also leave their field.
Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore the germs come out as soon as it is proper time. So these nonsense, they do not know that, that the... Creating life, the ingredients... If they say that material combination makes life, so material combination is there already. Why the, that man is not coming? That is... He's individual, and they are also individual. I have got my field. I am individual. I leave it. But because there are so many other microbes, they will come as me. No, that is not possible.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, yes, but temporarily, I cannot live without them.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I cannot live in my body without them.
Prabhupāda: Without them... You cannot live with this material body without so many conditions. And that is also one of the conditions. You cannot live. Any condition, little disturbed... You become diseased; you become disturbed. So therefore it is called conditional life. You simply live here on condition. And spiritual life means no condition. If the condition is favorable, then your senses will act.
Prabhupāda: Ah, jagad āhur anīśvaram (BG 16.8). There is no God, it has come automatically by interaction. But even it is so, how the interaction is taking place? That is intelligence. Interaction, just like acid and alkali. Just like oil and caustic soda. These are two chemicals and mixing them, interaction, the result is soap. Accepting this principle, but there must be a mixer, a person who is mixing. Otherwise, how the soap and oil is being mixed? The soap is there and the oil is there and the caustic soda is also there, that is material ingredient. But they are not coming together automatically. That is not possible. Where is the evidence? There are so many soap factories, and let them keep oil and caustic soda and there is no question of labor, let them become soap. Where is that evidence? But these rascals say like that. Aparaspara sambhūtam. Interaction of the two things. But where is the interaction of two things unless it is arranged by some third element? Where is the evidence? So these are foolish theories, that there is no God, things are taking place automatically and things are coming out, these are all foolish theories. There is no evidence. Pramāṇa, there must be evidence. Otherwise... Just like science means simply not to see observation that things are taking place, but experiment. It must be substantiated by experiment. Just like theoretically everyone knows that two chemicals, soda and alkali, mixes together and there is interaction, effervescence. But who is mixing the soda and alkali, er, alkali and acid?
Prabhupāda: That's all. You cannot produce petrol. Just like gold is already there, manufactured by God. You can make only different types of ornaments, that's all. Everything. This metal covering of this body, you have not produced this metal. They are like the carpenter. The carpenter has not produced the wood nor the metal instrument nor himself, but he is working. This body is also not produced by him. That is also made by Kṛṣṇa. His intelligence is also made by Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is giving the body. Kṛṣṇa is giving the intelligence. Kṛṣṇa is giving the wood. Kṛṣṇa is giving the instrument. Now, if you produce some furniture, to whom it will belong? To the carpenter or to the supplier of everything? Who will enjoy it? Who will enjoy it? If the carpenter claims that "I have done it," that is foolishness. You have done it as a worker, and you have been supplied with everything, your intelligence, your food, your instrument, your ingredient. Therefore the supplier should be the proprietor, not the carpenter. That is real philosophy.
Hṛdayānanda: That's practically the law everywhere.
Prabhupāda: Everywhere.
Hṛdayānanda: Carpenter comes and he pays him.
Prabhupāda: That is also... Because they have no knowledge, how they can describe?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We're explaining that, just like Śrīla Prabhupāda's example that the driver in the car. So inside the... We also say that "Yes, molecules are the ingredients to build the material bodies. But this does not mean that molecules are the living entities."
Prabhupāda: That's it.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is a driver necessary.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the first instruction of Kṛṣṇa. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāra... (BG 2.13). Dehinaḥ. There is a living entity, driver, within this body. That is the first instruction. Unless one understands this simple thing, he is an ass. There is no knowledge. Because everything is based on something fictitious. This is the first thing one has to learn, the scientists, that there is the driver which is missing. Or the driver is moving this body. And if the driver is educated, then he can move this body to Kṛṣṇa, back to home, back to Godhead. Then he becomes perfect. So we are educating the driver. We are not painting the tin car. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Mādhava: Does the scientist actually observe something external to his mind or does he only observe...
Prabhupāda: Speculation.
Prabhupāda: No, concept is there as you told me: "The God has made human being after His own image." Then we can get the idea that God is a person like a human being, He has got two hands, two legs, one head, because after His image we have been... Now, if we study ourself and increase that quality... Just like I am. I can eat. I can eat a certain amount of foodstuff, but God can also eat, but He can eat the whole universe. So eating is there. But the difference of eating is there also. I can create one airplane, but God has created very, very big airplanes like these planets, and they are floating in the sky without any power crisis. That is God's creation. Here we are floating the airplane or running the car with the power, petrol, given by God. You cannot manufacture petrol. Just like in your country there is enough stock of petrol. But you have not created it. So who has created? Your creative power is to drill and get the stock. So much creative power you have got. But you cannot create petrol. Then the Americans would not have come here to beg petrol. That is the difference. You can create something by the ingredients given by God. You can create this table. Because wood is given by God, the instrument is given by God, and the intelligence given by God, the hand is given by God, so in this way you create the table. Then whose property it will be, your property or God's property? Whose property? If I give you wood, instrument, your salary, and you create something, the ultimately the thing created, to whom it should belong? To you or to me?
Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, we received news yesterday that one man in northern New South Wales is willing to sell us a farm, a great big farm out there in the southern tropics. Would this be a good place for engaging boys like the Indian, the Indian boy that came yesterday?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Our next program is to organize farming. Let anyone come. We shall give him free food and employment: "Come on." Not that "I want to work as a clerk in the city." You produce your own food. I give you ingredients. I give you land. And work for five, six hours, and take your food and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee (1): Anybody who comes to the farm has to agree to follow the four regulative principles? These people?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise you are not coming. Our main business is to make him Kṛṣṇa conscious. Where you have left my that overcoat?
Prabhupāda: Why not atmosphere? The moon planet, there is a planet. There is space. There is surface. There is dust. So why not atmosphere the same? It is made of the same ingredients, earth, water, fire. Why do you say that is not same atmosphere?
Devotee (3): They are saying that it's too cold or too hot.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is here also. There are many cold places. Do they think that in the cold places there is no life? All nonsense. And only nonsense will believe them. I never believed it. Why? Here we see under this sand there is life. The crabs, what is called? They live within, so many hundreds of thousands. We have seen on the sand.
Indian man: And the polar bears for cold season for living in mounds of snows and all.
Prabhupāda: There are birds, some birds.
Paramahaṁsa: Penguins.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Penguins birds. There is life.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Your position is very minute. So you can desire up to that limit, not that you can desire "I become complete, universal." That is the defect of the Māyāvāda. "Because I am equal... So 'ham. Because I am qualitatively one, therefore I am one in every respect." A drop of ocean water, if he desires, "I become ocean," that is not possible. But a drop of ocean water contains the same ingredients as the big Pacific Ocean. So in your quantitative proportion, if you desire, that is your perfection.
Brahmānanda: Understanding one's position.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: That's sensible. (break)
Devotee (1): Like in the Tenth Chapter it's talking about...
Prabhupāda: Hm, not come very near. Yes?
Devotee (1): It's talking about that Arjuna saw the universal form, all these universes and all that. So does that mean like you were talking that one can't become a universal being, but he can see the whole universe. Can you explain how that is?
Prabhupāda: Therefore we say, "Don't do this. Don't do this." Don't mix again muddy things. It has already become muddy. Your business to cleanse it, and again if you make it muddy with addition of other nonsense things, then it will be delayed. When you ignite fire, you require dry wood. But if you ignite fire, at the same time pour water, then how it will burn? Don't pour water. Therefore we have so many "don'ts." "Don'ts" means that you are burning the fire. Go on. Don't add water. And that is "don't." If you ignite fire, at the same time add water, then how it will burn? Water is the counter-ingredient of fire. If you want to extinguish fire, then add water. But if you want to prolong the fire burning, then you should not add water. So this material enjoyment, illicit sex, intoxication, meat-eating, gambling, one should be free from these water-like things while you are in the fire of spiritual consciousness. Don't bring these things. You cannot go on burning the fire, at the same time adding water. Then it will be useless waste of time. Anartha upaśamam. Anartha upaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam. Bhakti-yogam means anartha, unwanted things, upaśamam, subsiding. This is anartha. Just like we don't eat meat. Are we dying for want of meat? But they have taken it that without eating meat they will die. This is nonsense.
Prabhupāda: Why not? Fire is also one of the elements like water and earth. So if there is life in the water, life on the earth, why not in the fire? What is this logic?
Bahulāśva: Actually, everything is burning. Even this body is also on fire.
Prabhupāda: No, the material ingredients, five elements... Out of the five elements, fire is one of them. So if in the four elements there are life, why not in the fifth? How do you say? That is their ignorance.
Devotee (3): You say even in the śāstra, Prabhupāda, that there's so many living entities in this body. It's evident.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's a fact. As soon as the body is dead, so many living entities will come out. Why? How it is possible? How these living entities are coming? What is the reason? You say the body is dead, so why from the dead body other living entities coming?
Paramahaṁsa: It becomes food for other living... It becomes food.
Prabhupāda: Food or whatever it may be, but the body, the ingredients of the body are complete to get life. You cannot say some chemical is missing. If it is missing, then how so many living entities are coming? There is nothing missing; everything is there. You cannot say, "missing." What is that "missing"? You do not know. That is soul.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Śraddha-śabde viśvāsa. Śraddhā, faith, means believing firmly. That is śraddhā, or faith. There is no question, "Yes." Śraddha-śabde viśvāsa. Therefore we have to believe in the Vedas. Vedas also says like that. That example I give sometimes, that cow dung is stool. In one place it is said stool is impure; in another place it is said cow dung is pure. Now, one may argue, "What is this, contradiction?" But you have to believe it. That is Veda. And that is actually being done. So without faith, you cannot make advance. The skeptics, they have no faith. Therefore they are lost. You must have faith.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? What is that ingredient or what is that thing which causes faith to develop in one? From someone becoming...
Prabhupāda: Purity. Purity. The more you become pure, the faith is firm.
Nārāyaṇa: So faith comes from previous pious activities?
Prabhupāda: No, may not be previous activity. You believe the authority, spiritual master.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That comes from purity, faith.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Our philosophy is yato va imāni bhūtāni jāyante: The original source of all these things.
Rāmeśvara: They think if they can make very palatable dishes, what is the need for God?
Prabhupāda: But without God where you get the ingredients?
Rāmeśvara: He is automatically supplying them.
Prabhupāda: Oh, therefore there is no need of God. I supply you everything and you say, "There is no need of you." It is very good intelligence. Ungrateful. The intelligence is ungrateful. So such men should not be given any credit, ungrateful.
Rādhā-vallabha: They also say that "At least our method proves out with facts, whereas your method, there is no facts. Simply you have some faith. So better that at least we know the facts and not know the source."
Prabhupāda: We know (?) fact. We accept this earth, water, air, fire, everything. Bhūmir āpo...
Rādhā-vallabha: So we can see this is here.
Prabhupāda: So where..? Our position is: "Wherefrom it came?"
Prabhupāda: Yes. Śiva is next to God. Just like yogurt, dahi. You know dahi? What is this dahi? Milk. But it is not milk. Dahi is not anything but milk, but it is not milk. Similarly, Lord Śiva is nothing but Viṣṇu, but it is not Viṣṇu. Is it clear now? You can say, "Well, dahi is nothing but milk." Yes. But it is not milk. If instead of milk you take dahi, the result will be different. And if you take milk instead of dahi, that is..., that will be different, although the milk and dahi is the same thing, same ingredients. So you have to understand in that way. Lord Śiva is nondifferent from the Supreme Lord. Everyone is nondifferent from Supreme Lord, but he's still different. This is the perfect philosophy, acintya-bhedābheda, simultaneously one and different.
Indian man (7): Swamijī, in all the temples in Mauritius, the supreme deity...
Prabhupāda: Supreme Deity is Viṣṇu.
Indian man (7): But we consider Lord Śiva to be the supreme deity because we...
Prabhupāda: But that is your lack of knowledge. I have already explained that, that yogurt is not different from milk. It is milk but still, it is not milk. You have to understand like that. Lord Śiva is not different from Viṣṇu, but he's still not Viṣṇu.
Prabhupāda: And in our list the plants are there. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. Sthāvara means plants. There are jalaja, aquatics, and sthāvara means plant. All living entities, different forms... Bhagavad-gītā says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). As many forms are there of the living entities. But what are these forms? Forms means the spirit soul is one, and he is covered by these material elements. That is form. So either your form or my form, but the ingredients are the same, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). (break) The soul is the same, and the ingredients of the body are the same. That is explained in Iśo..., ekatvam anupaśyate. Just like from gold, take from the mine—you make earring or this finger ring, the ingredients are the same. The forms may be different. (break) Apollo airship, thousands of technologists and scientists were engaged to make this Apollo, and it burst out. So they have no foreseeing power that it will burst out. At that time they began to pray to God.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I think President Ford said, "Every American should pray to God."
Prabhupāda: Why?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: When that Apollo thing, it was burst, he said. He said we should all pray to God.
Prabhupāda: Why God? Why not scientist ? (laughter) Pray to scientist. Why the order was for God, not for the scientist? Churchill also, when the war condition was very, very severe—they were going to be finished—then he asked everyone to go to church and pray. That "V"? "V"? Victory: "For victory, go and pray."
Prabhupāda: No, that is also.
Dr. Patel: Abhimana.
Prabhupāda: That is also, what is called, false ego. Human being or animal, they are not different, because the body is made of the same ingredient. If you manufacture a dog like a dog, like a man, what is the difference? The ingredient is the same, earth.
Dr. Patel: Five bhūtas, pañca-bhūta.
Prabhupāda: Pañca-bhūta So where is the difference? A man who knows, he will see so many dolls made of earth. He knows they are all earth. Ekatvam anupaśyataḥ (Iso 7).
Dr. Patel:
Some of it all, no?
Prabhupāda: First of all let me, let me understand. This bodily transformation does not make any difference. Either it is made like a dog or it is made like a man, it is made from the earth. So one who knows the ingredient, he does not make any difference. Because he knows the dog or the man made of the same ingredient. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. First of all the body. The bodily conscious even...
Prabhupāda: So many rascals. One scientist came to talk with me in California. And he: "God? What is God? We have now solved everything." And you are rascal, demon.
Dr. Patel: He should be asked to "Make a single living cell yourself. We'll give you all the ingredients, all the chemicals, and make us a living cell. If you can make it?" That should be the answer to that.
Prabhupāda: They are so foolish. I very strongly talk with them. Still, stubborn, doggish. That scientist, I told him in his..., that "You are a demon." I told him, "You are a demon." So he tolerated. (laughs)
Dr. Patel: They are serving the Mammon and not God.
Prabhupāda: So, so many psychologists, psychiatrists, scientists, they come there in Los Angeles.
Dr. Patel: I mean, the psychologists are the real science which can lead a man to the higher understanding of life, psychologists. The abstract sciences of biology and psychics, chemistry, are little lower sciences. The psychology is much higher.
Prabhupāda: No science is perfect. Asato dhavato bahiḥ.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the same thing, because he does not see the form; he sees the ingredients. Just like there are so many earthen pots, dolls. So any sane man knows that these are all made of earth. That's all. That vision is wanted, but these rascals, they are thinking, "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya," "I am fat," "I am this," "I am that." Therefore they are imperfect.
Dr. Patel: Oh, we are prepared to think we are Americans, but they don't take us, unfortunately. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Dr. Patel: You see? I may little digressing from this point. Before the India became freed we had an extremely high opinion about American race, American people.
Prabhupāda: Still I have got.
Dr. Patel: Because... No, not people like us.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is correct. Still I have got.
Dr. Patel: I have got also. Because then it was American president who supported the freedom movement of India. But unfortunately Dulles spoiled the speech.
Prabhupāda: No, I am not speaking from that point of view. I see that the Americans, they have helped me in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Girirāja: He said, "We don't know where the ingredients came from, but we're sure that there's..."
Prabhupāda: Then why do you talk nonsense? (laughter) That is another rascal. You do not know. Then what is the use of talking nonsense? You do not know wherefrom these ingredients came. That is nonsense. Our answer is, Kṛṣṇa reveals, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8): "The ingredients coming from Me." Now make experiment how the ingredients are coming.
Devotee (1): But they say, "Where did Kṛṣṇa come from?"
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa. Go to... By and by, you go to Kṛṣṇa, and when you don't find Kṛṣṇa's cause, that is Kṛṣṇa. Anādir ādiḥ. He is anādi, but He is adi. That is Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee (1): They say the original ingredients for the explosion, then, according to your definition, is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Dr. Patel: You should never think like that.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is the cause of all causes, sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1). But He has no kāraṇa.
Prabhupāda: Just like from ether, sound is created. Śabda, sparśa. Śabda, sparśa, rūpa, rasa, gandhaḥ, these are the five parmatra (?), object of sense perception. Budh, pañca parmatra, ten senses, the mind, and three modes, the material nature. This is the ingredient of the whole creation.
Harikeśa: So the basic element is the soul's...
Prabhupāda: Basic element is Kṛṣṇa.
Harikeśa: And then the spirit soul's desire.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Haṁsadūta: And Kṛṣṇa fulfills everyone's desire.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Haṁsadūta: By manipulating the energy.
Harikeśa: So the most subtle form...
Prabhupāda: He is also... The living entity is creating different body for different enjoyment.
Haṁsadūta: The living entity?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Supplies ingredients. Yes.
Harikeśa: So that desire, that is equivalent, or is that the...
Prabhupāda: A child wants to play, and the father and mother gives the toys for that play. So without getting help from the father and mother, the child cannot enjoy. Similarly, we may desire but unless Kṛṣṇa helps us we cannot fulfill our desire.
Harikeśa: Is desire a function of consciousness?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless there is desire, how it is living? It is dead body. Stone, stone has no desire.
Harikeśa: The spirit soul is...
Prabhupāda: Therefore, spirit soul is described as superior energy. He desires and he manipulates the matter. Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5).
Prabhupāda: They like it?
Harikeśa: Oh, yes. The best.
Prabhupāda: Huh? The only defect is that all the ingredients are not very finely powdered. If it is very finely powdered, then it will be very nice.
Lokanātha: You are perfect in all respects. You are your own doctor...
Prabhupāda: I am not doctor, but I created many doctors. (break) (to Dr. Patel:) Hare Kṛṣṇa! Jaya. (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: (Hindi: ap lok hamye sa chaye) I have decided not to come today with you. Because I was driven away yesterday morning by your men. I came to look after you.
Prabhupāda: How is that?
Dr. Patel: God only knows. They have behaved so very badly, be three of us. And you were not sleeping even, because I wanted to give you the prescription, so I ran from my house.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Lokanātha: The man's body is made up of kapha, piṭha, vāyu, and woman's body also has the same ingredients.
Prabhupāda: Everybody.
Lokanātha: So then what is basic difference between human body, I mean man's body and woman's body, which attracts each other?
Prabhupāda: Because if you want to be attracted, God has made in such a way that both of them are attractive to one another. That's all. You want to be attracted; therefore woman is made attractive. And the woman wants to be attracted; man is attractive. This is nature's arrangement so that you may be bound up by this attraction. Tayor miṭha hṛdaya-granthiḥ mām. You are already bound up, and by this attraction you will be more tightly bound up. Puṁsāṁ striyā mithuni-bhāvam etad. The whole material attraction means a man's attraction for woman and a woman's attraction for man. But when they are seeking, "Where is woman, where is woman, where is woman," and the woman is seeking, they come here to make this business. Huh? And when they are actually attracted or united, then this bondage, material bondage, will become more tight. Therefore the Vedic civilization is how to slacken it, and ultimately, by force, separation, sannyāsa. Because unless they are separated, there cannot be any spiritual advancement. That is the whole process. The unity is bondage. I have written a letter that man is good, woman is good, and when they are united, they are bad! (laughs) Both of them are bad. And the material world is taking, "This is the best thing."
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, in northern India, when there is some festival they will purchase, I mean to say, grains, means wheat and chānnā, and ghee and sugar. Then they will make hundreds of preparation out of it.
Indian man: Here we call it as poṅgal. Make it as poṅgal, we call it. It's chānnā, ghee, and sugar. We prepare it in...
Prabhupāda: Laḍḍu, you prepare laḍḍu? They prepare so many things. The main ingredient is this: besan, āttā, ghee, sugar. That's all. (break) ...also they eat rice more.
Mahāmṣa: (break) ...left in Mysore.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But Bengal tiger.
Acyutānanda: That's.... They've all been shot.
Prabhupāda: (break) First of all understand what is meditation. Do you understand what is meditation? Do you understand?
Indian man: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: What is meditation?
Prabhupāda: The mind is the first creation for material enjoyment. From the mind, senses are created, five senses for knowledge-gathering and five senses for working, and five airs within the body. In this way the mind and fifteen. This is called ṣoḍāśa upacāra, sixteen. And then the ingredients, pañca-mahā-bhūta. Then intelligence, ahaṅkāra, false ego. These twenty-four, combination. And ātmā, jīva, and then Kṛṣṇa-twenty-six. The twenty-six combination is this body, mind, self, soul, Supersoul, everything. So I am ready.
Hariśauri: I think it's just a little early yet, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Hariśauri: Just a little early. It's still dark. I think ten minutes should be all right. Has this been used?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...is in ignorance. Combination of matter and soul, moving animals. Some of them are standing as trees and plant, and some of them are moving. Where is the science to study? What is your value of knowledge? Hm? If they do not know the fundamental things, then what is the value of their knowledge? Simply observation, superficial, externally. There is good scope. They are receiving these books. We should take chance of preaching this Bhāgavatam, and the classes should be held especially.... No, the religious classes are already there. Let them study Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā. And they will accept it. They are not fools. Simply we have to introduce it. The Western people, they are not fools, but misguided.
Prabhupāda: And these ingredients are supplied by Jagannātha's own field. They grow it, and they... So there is no difficulty. They grow and they sell. They get money so they can maintain the establishment. A long time. There are potters. Daily they will supply for each prasādam a new pot. It cannot be used again. So few people purchase with pot, original pot, and they have got a fixed price. This big pot, say, five rupees; this pot, two rupees; this pot, one rupee. So as you like, you can purchase. Very nice system.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You went there sometimes to take prasādam?
Prabhupāda: Yes, I became a guest. A gentleman was our tenant, and he gave me introduction letter to his brother-in-law. He was a pleader in Jagannātha Purī. So he received me very well. So he offered me a lunch, and I saw there was something, a small ball-like, in the pot, bowl. So I asked, "What is this?" He said, "It is meat." (laughs) He was eating meat, so he thought it is good reception, the guest is offered nice meat. So I said, "No, you... I never took meat. I never expected..." (break) Then "Never mind." Then I stopped eating there. At that time I was a boy. After appearing in my B.A. examination there was holiday, so I went to Jagannātha Purī in 1920 or something like that. So I was married in 1918. So some of the friends of my wife, they said that "Your husband now gone. He is not coming back." So after returning I understood she was crying. (laughs) So anyway, then I used to purchase prasādam in the market. They were bringing, and I was eating. I stayed for three, four days. That's all.
Prabhupāda: I knew it, that they were preparing some sand, because Dr. Bose had a bottle factory. So he was melting the sand. Therefore I asked him. You cannot manufacture anything. You simply collect the ingredients given by God and you can transfer into some other form. You cannot manufacture. This building is also the same way. You have got the cement, the wood, the iron. Wherefrom you have got that? It is Kṛṣṇa's property. So those who are manufacturing or constructing big, big houses for their living, they are simply eating their sinful activities. Ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt (BG 3.13). We are also... They can say that "You are also con..." But we are not doing it for ourself. It is for Kṛṣṇa. Therefore karma and bhakti apparently looks the same activity, but one is for Kṛṣṇa, another is for one's personal use. Bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpāḥ. What is that verse? You know? Bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt. Hm? What is that book? Oh. Today there is no fog, or there is, that side, fog. (break) ...all convinced that our only business is to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Huh? That is required. We have no other business. "We" means we human beings. We have no other business.
Prabhupāda: They have brought some dust, but that is not bright. They have said.... The other scientists, they said, "This kind of dust can be available here." Just see. Now, how it is bright?
Pañca-draviḍa: Well, they say that from space the earth would be bright also, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: The nonsense may say anything. But our common sense that if the, there is some ingredient in this moon which makes it bright, so they have brought the dust, but other scientists say that this dust can be available here.
Pañca-draviḍa: So it may be cheating.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Pañca-draviḍa: Actually, they have not proved anything.
Prabhupāda: That is my contention.
Trivikrama: They say the moon is bright, just like if a cloud is in the sky, it appears very white and bright because the sun is hitting it. But the same cloud, if you bring it into the room, it's just mist.
Prabhupāda: But cloud is not always existing. But this brightness is always existing. Cloud is sometimes appearing, sometimes disappearing. The moon brightness is regular. How you can compare with cloud? When you compare, there must be consistency. Analogy. Analogy means similar position. Otherwise, analogy has no meaning.
Prabhupāda: Nothing. Artificial blood.... Superficially it is red water. So if red water is the life, then why you are spoiling so much blood? Keep it scientifically and push it into the dead body. I say it is, that way, it is the red water, nothing but red water. Urine is white water. I am coming to the five elements, air, water.... Then what is this bone? Earth. You can manufacture bone, hard bone, with earth or wood or something plastic. So we are analyzing the combination of the body, so everything you can manufacture. But where is the life you can manufacture? Why do you say? That is our challenge. All the ingredients of the body you can manufacture exactly like that. Ultimately you can give the beauty also of the woman or the man. But where is life? Bring life by all these things. Then I will say that you are scientist. Otherwise cheater, simply bluffing people. This thing should be stopped. Where you get the information that this, from matter life is possible. "In future." But in future.... In inceptive condition you show something. Just like formerly they were flying balloons. So because they were flying, they could say that "Future we shall fly a big city." And in the history we can see that that is not impossible, because in the inceptive condition or initiative condition we see that big things can be flown. But here you cannot even prepare an ant. You have not been able to prepare even a small ant, germ. Show me. So why do you say, "In future I shall do it"?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalam. He is asking very simple thing which everyone can offer. Just like a little leaf, patram, a little flower, puṣpam, a little fruit, and little liquid, either water or ghee, er, milk. So we offer that. We make different varieties with these ingredients, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (BG 9.26), and after Kṛṣṇa's eating, we take it. We are servant; we take the remnants of foodstuff left by Kṛṣṇa. We are neither vegetarian nor nonvegetarian. We are prasād-ian. We don't care for vegetable or not vegetable, because either you kill a cow or kill a vegetable, the sinful action is there. And according to nature's law, it is said that "The animals which has no hand, that is the food for the animals with hands." We are also animals with hands. We human being, we are also animal with hands, and they are animals—no hand but four legs. And there are animals which has no leg, that is vegetable. Apadāni catuṣ-padām. These animals which has no leg, they are food for the animals with four leg. Just like cow eats grass, the goat eats grass. So eating vegetable, there is no credit. Then the goats and the cows are more credit, have more credit, because they don't touch anything except vegetable. So we are not preaching to become goats and cows. No. We are preaching that you become servant of Kṛṣṇa. So whatever Kṛṣṇa eats, we eat. If Kṛṣṇa says that "Give me meat, give me eggs," so we shall offer Kṛṣṇa meat and eggs and we shall take it. So don't think that we are after vegetarian, nonvegetarian. No. That is not our philosophy. Because either you take vegetable or you take meat, you are killing. And you have to kill because otherwise you cannot live. That is nature's way.
Prabhupāda: Grains, no. Grains, they are starch. According to medical science, we require four different groups: starch, carbohydrate, protein, and fat. That is full food. So you can get all these things by eating rice, dahl, mean pulses, and wheat, and.... These things contain.... Pulses and wheat contains protein. And milk also contains protein. So protein we require. Fat we get from milk. Fat is required. And vegetables, carbohydrate; and food grain, starch. So if you prepare nice foodstuff with all these ingredients, you get full..., and offer to Kṛṣṇa, then it's purified. Then you are free from all sinful activities. Otherwise, even if you kill vegetable, you are sinful because it has got life. You have no right to kill another life. But you have to live on life. This is your position. Therefore the solution is that you take prasādam. If there is sin by eating vegetable or meat it goes to the eater. We take the remnants, that's all.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You follow?
Mr. Dixon: Not exactly.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The food that we take is first offered to Kṛṣṇa in the temple, so Kṛṣṇa is the first to eat. And Kṛṣṇa demands that "You offer Me this particular source of foodstuff." So one becomes free from all sinful reactions by first offering to Kṛṣṇa the foodstuff. Not only are you eating, but also you become free from sinful reaction.
Mr. Dixon: I see.
Scheverman: Thank you very much. I cook once in a while, too, so I'm very interested in what the ingredients are for various kinds of food.
Hari-śauri: We can teach you how to cook very expertly.
Scheverman: Very good.
Devotee (1): Chick pea flour, butter and sugar, nuts, dried fruit.
Pālikā: They're very nice.
Scheverman: May I take it with me?
Pālikā: Oh, yes.
Scheverman: All right, thank you.
Prabhupāda: Take more also, give him one more.
Prabhupāda: Nowhere there is good cook except here. (laughter) Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja is good cook.
Hari-śauri: He's trained everybody up very nicely.
Kīrtanānanda: Prabhupāda knows how to flatter. Well, I think even we could not cook so good in Boston or New York. Without being in Vṛndāvana and the natural ingredients, it is not so...
Prabhupāda: You can supply them ghee.
Kīrtanānanda: Yes, we can do that.
Prabhupāda: You grow podina? Podina? Mint? Mint?
Kīrtanānanda: Mint? Yes.
Prabhupāda: Chutney.
Kīrtanānanda: Mint chutney. How do you make mint chutney?
Prabhupāda: I'll teach you. You have got mango?
Kīrtanānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: I'll teach you. Chili?
Prabhupāda: No, the flower has taken directly, without any chemical addition. You do that. It is a fact the flavor is there within the earth, you take the flavor, extract the flavor. Not only this flavor, there are different flavors, all, everything there. There are so many flowers coming out. Huh? Sarva-kāma dugha-mahī. Mahī means earth. Everything's coming out from the earth. But not in your attempt. It is Kṛṣṇa's attempt that He can take out. Out of so many different flavors, everything is there within the earth, but Kṛṣṇa's manipulation takes the different colors, different flavors, different bodies, everything. That is Kṛṣṇa's manipulation. Mayādhyakṣeṇa (BG 9.10). Just like in our kitchen we have got the ingredients, rice, dahl, āṭṭā, ghee. But the expert can prepare hundreds of preparations. That expert is Kṛṣṇa. And if one is not expert, even the ingredients are there, he'll spoil everything. He'll mix the āṭṭā with water then put ghee and then put rice. (laughter) This is the... We have to become expert. If you become expert, then you'll do very nice purī, dahl, rice, ah... There are so many varieties. You enjoy. And if you are not expert, you'll spoil. So Kṛṣṇa is expert and Kṛṣṇa bhakta is expert because he takes lessons from Kṛṣṇa. So for them this is not mithyā. Rascals who spoil it, they think it is mithyā. He could not do anything. He mix with a conglomeration, and because he could not get any result, he said mithyā, disappointment. And one who knows, he knows how to utilize it. Just like we are utilizing the cows in so many nice preparations, and these rascals killing them. Finished.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Animal-killing is only allowed when it is absolutely necessary, for medicine. Suppose by killing one animal hundreds of lives are saved, so that is allowed. One preparation is chagalaka-ghṛta. It is prepared... A live goat is put into the ghee with other ingredients, and that is a good medicine for tisis(?).
Hari-śauri: For?
Prabhupāda: Tisis(?) Tuberculosis.
Hari-śauri: Oh.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They actually cook the live goat in the ghee? Maybe we should withhold this science from the Western world for a while.
Prabhupāda: No, you are expert already. (laughter)
Hari-śauri: There were some mantras they chant... Just like the sacrifices where they would give new life to the sacrificed animal. They would do the same thing?
Prabhupāda: To test, to test the Vedic mantra.
Hari-śauri: So that goat would get a new life, or...?
Prabhupāda: Who? No, this is used for medicine.
Prabhupāda: Layers. And I was telling my colleague that stratus, the layers so perfect that everywhere, say five inches, just like it appears somebody has laid down. Is it not?
Rūpānuga: Yes. Layer upon layer.
Prabhupāda: Yes, one after another, the same height, same color, the same ingredient—how it comes to happen? And they give history of millions of years? And these people say five thousand.
Sadāpūta: We were wondering about those strata. We were wondering if maybe those could be masses of sediment deposited...
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, the side height of the strata is the same for miles together. As if somebody very intelligently laid down.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So how do we explain that?
Prabhupāda: That I want. (laughter) How they can say five thousand years? Things are going on for millions and millions of years.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: (indistinct) ...with this hiraṇmaya, the relationship between mahat-tattva and the hiraṇmaya is clear, then I think we can have some idea. So we are little confused on this very point. It is also said pradhāna is the twenty-four elements that doesn't contain time.
Prabhupāda: Pradhāna is the ingredient.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, it is the sum total of the unmanifested material elements. Now from pradhāna actually mahat-tattva is manifested. In mahat-tattva there is a basic difference that there is some, already some manifestations in mahat-tattva.
Rūpānuga: Categories.
Prabhupāda: Total material elements, mahat-tattva.
Rūpānuga: Is that differentiated?
Prabhupāda: Mahat-tattva is differentiated.
Prabhupāda: No, no. The process is going on. I've described. That is going on.
Rūpānuga: So the spirit soul is in the seed, and the seed interacts with the other chemicals to make growth. So if the chemicals are not there in the earth, then that seed cannot make those chemicals.
Prabhupāda: No, chemical is there in the earth. According to the seed it is exacted. Just like a chemist will analyze or they separate the ingredient, so much this percentage, so much that percentage, so much that. Everything is there. Similarly within the earth, everything is there. The seed is the instrument and the living entity is the exactor—what is that? Exactor?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. He's executor.
Rūpānuga: He takes, utilizes.
Prabhupāda: Utilizer. Bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Extracts.
Rūpānuga: Extracts from.
Prabhupāda: Extracts.
Prabhupāda: No, no. All the living conditions are there in the matter, provided there is the living being, that's all. Just like a dead body, it is not that the living condition is finished, no. The living conditions are there. That particular soul has left that body. But the dead body is also full of ingredients of living condition. So many germs are coming out when the body is decomposed. You say decomposition, but even in that decomposed condition there is living condition. So the living conditions are already there, matter in any form. So how these rascals say there is no life in the moon planet? That is not possible. The living conditions are always there in the matter. This is the example. Now, a decomposed body, the living being has left, now it is dead matter, but still, the living beings are coming out. How it is? That means matter has always the potency to give shelter to the living entity. So it is impossible that there is no living being in the moon planet. It is bogus. We cannot accept it. Any condition there is provision for the living beings. We see actually, in the earth, in the air, in the water, in the fire, these five elements. Whatever you take, these five elements in different proportions. So the living..., just like from perspiration living entities come out. It is impossible there is no living entities. That is bogus complete. You can challenge like that.
Rūpānuga: So that matter is coming from Kṛṣṇa originally.
Prabhupāda: Everything is coming from Him.
Rūpānuga: Spirit soul, he has his activities and he's active and...
Prabhupāda: He may be inactive, but his subtle desires is active. That is creation. Matter is supplying, that is pradhāna of life.
Rūpānuga: So he creates the situation for the matter, but he doesn't create the matter itself.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He wants, "I want this," and God is there, He asks material energy to supply the ingredients, and he creates his own situation.
Devotees: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. Thank you very much, Prabhupāda
Prabhupāda: There's no question of starvation for want of money. Anywhere sit down and do something palatable, and people will purchase. So your livelihood will go on. Pakorā, kacuri, jalebi, anything. You make some palatable, people are fond of eating some palatable things. That is their hobby. In Allahabad, there was a brāhmaṇa. I had my business, and he was neighborhood, he was living. So in the morning, the husband and wife would go to take bath in the Ganges. They would very nicely take bath, and while coming they will purchase some ingredients and then come home. The husband will perform pūjā, etc., and the wife will prepare many nice preparations-baḍā, pakori, puskar (?), this, that. Then he'll take his meals, rest awhile, and in the evening he will sit down, he was sitting just in front of my shop, about four or five o'clock. All the preparations his wife had made whole day, and the small shop. And the university students will come up to night, ten o'clock, he'll finish. Nothing will remain. Everything will be... And he'll make at least ten rupees profit, minimum. In those days, 1925, in those days ten rupees means nowadays at least fifty rupees. So, and living very happy. Living humbly as a brāhmaṇa, he was having his pūjā, going to the Ganges, taking bath, husband and wife, in the morning, and the wife's business is to prepare and his business was to sell. So they'll make at least ten, fifteen rupees profit daily, very prosperous. Living peacefully, husband and wife. There are many such families. The... If wife is very good, then his home is very nice. They cannot be unhappy at any circumstances. Dampatyoḥ kalaho nāsti tatra śrīḥ svayam āgataḥ.(?) Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. When there is full agreement between husband and wife, cooperation, then the goddess of fortune comes there without application. You haven't got to ask goddess of fortune, "Please come and help me." She'll come automatically. This is Cāṇakya Paṇḍita's instruction.
Harikeśa: It comes from a certain combination of material ingredients.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but that means cause after cause you have to find how the combination came. That is called philosophy. Go on searching out, searching out. Then you'll find sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1). We say that kāma-haitukam, that desire is there in Kṛṣṇa. And therefore, you are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, that desire has come to you. We see Kṛṣṇa's dealing with gopīs, with Rādhārāṇī, exactly like young man, young woman. The kāma-haitukam is there. It is not fictitious. It has come down, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. Kṛṣṇa says... The kāma also, you have to accept it, because Kṛṣṇa says mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. "Whatever you have got, that is from Me." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). You cannot say the kāma is independent. That's not fact. It is coming from Kṛṣṇa. (break) Ahaṁ sarvasya, sarvasya, you'll have take kāma also, everything, everything is coming. As Kṛṣṇa says everything, kāma is also coming from Him. In another place Kṛṣṇa says that mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). It cannot be independent. The kāma-haitukam, the man and woman, lusty desire, that is also coming from Kṛṣṇa. You cannot finish the subject matter simply kāma-haitukam. Wherefrom this kāma came? Kṛṣṇa answers that. Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. What is that?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: So we put you in a room with a lot of lust and you create a baby.
Harikeśa: No, that will happen automatically, you just, the ingredients come together automatically.
Prabhupāda: Obstinate rascals. Not only rascal, but obstinate rascal. Their only remedy is shoe. That's all. Obstinacy. There is a story about obstinacy. Two friends were talking. One friend said, "This is cut by a scissor." So another friend says, "No, it is cut by the knife." So then there was fight. So the friend who was talking of the knife, he was strong enough. So he captured him: "You accept it is scissor, otherwise I'll throw you in the water." So other, "No, it is scissor," so he threw him in the water. So when he was dying, he was doing like this. (Prabhupāda makes a hand motion like scissor) (laughter) So he is obstinate rascal. It is as good as that garden here. Rather, here there is no disturbance of outsiders, and there there are so many disturbances. It is better. Our theory is... Not theory, fact-daiva-netreṇa. These things are arranged by superior management.
Jñānagamya: Actually, Prabhupāda, that lust is a perverted expression of love. Kṛṣṇa is creating out of love, and in the material world it becomes perverted. So in the material world lust is the cause.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In the spiritual world, what is love, that is in the material world lust.
Prabhupāda: Now you consider amongst yourselves. I have no difficulty, I have given direction, "Do like that." Now what you'll do, that is up to you. So far giving help and directions, that you will get perfect, there is no doubt about it. That you will get. How to manage, how to get ingredients, everything you'll get. Because I have to say only, you have to do. That's all. So that will be all right. Now decide. That will be very nice or very effective. Whatever we shall prepare, it will be very effective. So if there is market, why not? Introduce. I think there will be market because this country is undeveloped.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: We will manage it, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There will be plenty of market.
Prabhupāda: We require all these things. The more they become civilized, the more they require medicine and all these things. So you decide. I am so far giving instruction and help, and that will be available.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: We have been, Śrīla Prabhupāda, talking and thinking about it amongst ourselves, that now that we have this propensity to be in business, instead of working for karmīs we should have our own business.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: So it's much better... If devotees are in charge, then the karmīs can work for us and they can become devotees. But if the karmīs are in charge...
Prabhupāda: We are. Our society, it is not that we are simply sannyāsīs.
Prabhupāda: All right, keep it now, we are going. We shall come back and then later on. After coming back we shall give him. Yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi yat dadāsi tat kuruṣva mad-arpaṇam. (break)
Harikeśa: It took two weeks to make.
Prabhupāda: Two weeks? Why? Because the ingredients were not...?
Harikeśa: No, because your mustard oil, no one liked to taste it, and then you changed it to mustard seeds.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Mustard seed also can be exported from India. In the Mathurā district there is sufficient mustard seed.
Hari-śauri: Yellow mustard seeds.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Mustard seeds and instead of chalk powder we mix nim powder. Mustard seed, nim powder.
Harikeśa: Calcium carbonate.
Prabhupāda: And salt. Calcium carbonate means...? Oh, calcium, instead of calcium carbonate, let it be nim. It will be very effective.
Harikeśa: I think the taste will be horrible.
Prabhupāda: Yes, taste will be... (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Yes, taste will be... (laughter)
Harikeśa: No one will use it.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is...
Harikeśa: I saw they make this other toothpaste with sucrose. The second biggest ingredient is sucrose on the karmī toothpaste.
Prabhupāda: Sucrose? What is that sucrose?
Harikeśa: Sucrose, you know, sucrose and glucose and lactose, those sugars. They use sugar powder, sucrose.
Prabhupāda: Oh, sucrose, yes. Saccharin and sucrose. Saccharin is sugar product.
Harikeśa: We tried that too the first time, with those...
Prabhupāda: No, that is no good.
Harikeśa: That was not good.
Prabhupāda: Salt is available very easily.
Harikeśa: And they use hard soap powder in these powdered ones. We tried that first with the hard soap powder? They use that also.
Prabhupāda: Pañca-gavya, gomūtra is one of the parts. Pañca-gavya.
Dr. Patel: Milk and honey. Five ingredients, gomūtra is one of the five things. Honey, milk...
Prabhupāda: No, that is pañca-amṛta. Pañca-gavya a little different. Gobara, urine, milk, yogurt, and ghee. This is pañca-gavya, pertaining to the cow. And that honey, that is pañca-amṛta.
Dr. Patel: Sir, I have a question. Can I ask you?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Now then, Arjuna was so advised that he should fight out. So in that case, I mean we all consider he was right to follow Kṛṣṇa advice? Then if a man is overtaken by disease and if he fights out that...
Prabhupāda: No, no, I don't say that, that he should not fight. It is my personal... Not that one should not take care of the body or one should not eat medicine, that is not. I like this, let me do without medicine. That is my personal... It is...
Dr. Patel: What is medicine? Any herb is a medicine, even food is a medicine.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, I don't decry medicine. That is not my business.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. There is another word. Tad bhavaty alpa-medhasaḥ. Tad bhavati... Alpa-medha and su-medhasa. These two words we get from the śāstra. Those who are alpa-medhasa, they want to bring... Just like in name, Gītā-yajñas. There is no yajña. They are manufacturing some ideas. Because other yajñas are not possible in this age. First of all, there is no yajñika-brāhmaṇa, there is no ingredients. So therefore this is the yajña. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyaiḥ. This is quotation from Bhāgavata. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti he su-medhasaḥ. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni... (CC Antya 20.12). this yajña. Simply chant, and engage others in chanting. That is yajña. First class yajña, recommended.
Caraṇāravindam: Prabhupāda? When we pass through the village how will we keep them engaged...
Prabhupāda: That he'll guide you. You do not know. He is from village, he knows. Village or no village, wherever you chant, people will come. That is a fact. Either you chant in Calcutta Maidan or in the village they will be... India is still alive in that sense. We have seen it. We have experience. Wherever we have chanted, people have come.
Lokanātha: When you went to some place in Gujarat, Sanand? It was reported that thousands of people will come. It was a small village...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Village, if you go out they will come like anything. Even in the city we have got experience. In Calcutta we did Maidan. Thirty thousand they were coming. They could not understand English, still they are coming, simply by kīrtana. This Haṁsadūta was performing kīrtana, and all the Bengali ladies coming from outside Calcutta by train, and they're praying, "take this." (indistinct) Still India is alive. And I was speaking in English mostly. Also in Delhi. Still ladies are sitting. (laughs) What they'll understand English? But that kīrtana was so attractive, they sat down only for kīrtana.
Prabhupāda: When I went to your MIT, I challenged that "Where is that technological department where a dead man can be brought into life?" It was interesting speech. The students gathered. This body is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā as machine. Do you know that? This body is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā as machine. Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā.
Just like you make a tour by driving a motorcar, similarly, the jīvātmā is touring all over the universe riding on this machine. This is machine. So... Aiye aiye. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (guest enters) (Hindi) Aiye. We have arranged for your prasāda. Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. This is machine. This body is machine made by the material energy, as all other machine are made by the kṣitir-āp-tejo marud-vyoma, earth, water, air, fire. These are the ingredients, any machine. Suppose it is made of iron.
Prabhupāda: This is machine. This body is machine made by the material energy, as all other machine are made by the kṣitir-āp-tejo marud-vyoma, earth, water, air, fire. These are the ingredients, any machine. Suppose it is made of iron. So iron is another form of earth. So as all other machines are made with these material elements, similarly, this body is also made with the material elements, and it is yantra. It is particularly mentioned. But this yantra is not ordinary yantra. You cannot make it. But it is yantra. It is made by somebody, and the ingredients are the material elements. So where is that technology? It is made of matter, and it is made by somebody as other machines are made with the material... (break) ...and made by somebody. So where is that advancement of technology? A motorcar, when stops, technology department can repair it and again it runs. So where is that advancement of technology that when this machine stops you run on, again repair it? This was my challenge in your institution. Can you answer this? You have got so many advancement, the nuclear energy and everything. But why you cannot give life to the machine stopped? Why?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everywhere. Taste can be very nice, sweetened. There is salt, and you can add honey also. Naturally salty and sweet plus some ingredients like peppermint, wintergreen, camphor, it will make tasty. These ingredients are very nice. We can... Some ordinary medicament. That skin disease ointment, some cough mixture. I have got experience in all these things. If you want to introduce this kind of business, tidbit...(?) The gṛhasthas can do the business.
Rāmeśvara: Gṛhasthas. I also want to start this record...
Prabhupāda: You cannot expect everyone to be brahminical qualification. We are neither brāhmaṇa nor... We do not belong to any sect, but Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction, we can do anything. That, because we are doing some business, we are not vaiśyas. Just like Nanda Mahārāja was agriculturist. So that does not mean he was a Vaiṣṇava. But professionally, externally, he looked like a vaiśya.
Rāmeśvara: I see that in Los Angeles. Not everyone can follow every program. So I'm always telling them, to encourage them, that even something is better than nothing. Blind uncle is better than no uncle. So do whatever you can.
Prabhupāda: Caitanya-caritāmṛta. So we're desiring one after, one after, one after, one after... The last desire... Because if you become addicted to certain type of desire, that is prominent at the time of death. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6), sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ. So māyā's machine is immediately prepared. That mind—manaḥ buddhiḥ ahaṅkāra. Subtle. You cannot see. You see the body is burned, finished. Rascal, that is not finished. Na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). It is not finished. There is subtle body. The subtle body carries. The example is just like flavor of rose garden carries, similarly, the desire is carried, and he requires a machine to ride on, particular. So there are eighty-four million machines, and he's, karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1), by the supervision of māyā, carried to this mother's womb. The soul is injected through the semina of the father, and he enters the womb of the mother, and mother gives the ingredients, develops his body, and as soon as it is complete, comes out. Where is the difficulty to understand this transmigration of the soul? These rascals have no brain. That verse I have explained this morning.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa has given all knowledge. Actually nobody has tried to present Bhagavad-gītā like this. That's a fact. And it is acting. (laughs) Now it is acting. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante... (BG 7.15). Make your defense measure consulting all these books, everything. Transmigration, in the morning I...?
Satsvarūpa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Explain.
Satsvarūpa: You explained that whatever a person is thinking, that's his desire. At the time of death the desire is very prominent, so he takes a body according to that desire. And then you described exactly how it happens, that the subtle body carries the soul, just like the air carries the aroma of the flower into the semina of the man to the woman who supplies the ingredients, and the body comes out. In this way he travels from one body to another.
Hari-śauri: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So if tomorrow we could have this... Or day after tomorrow, perhaps. It will take a day to get the ingredients. Day after tomorrow is all right with you?
Mr. Myer: No, that's very good, yeah.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, today's Friday, so day after tomorrow will be Sunday. Sunday morning. Is that all right? Actually Mr. Myer came here to get initiated. He had no idea to come here to become a manager here. Originally, before he went back to Madras to get his wife, he just came here for this thing, because he heard that you were very ill, and he didn't know what your position would be, so he wanted... So he rushed here, stopping all his work, simply to take initiation.
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa's inspiration.
Mr. Myer: So one year I was reading books on..., listening to the tapes, and I...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is your first name?
Mr. Myer: Krishan.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Good name. His name is Krishan Myer.
Prabhupāda: And they are getting Nobel Prize. Just see. Such rascals. And we say on the authority of Bhagavad-gītā, apareyam. This is inferior and that is superior. So how you can make superior with inferior ingredients?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Impossible. Without the superior touch the inferior cannot have any life.
Prabhupāda: That's a fact. They're seeing every moment.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everything has movement... If it's matter it only moves because of some superior force, living force, pushing it or entering it or something.
Prabhupāda: The superior energy is utilizing inferior energy for His purpose. You are utilizing this inferior, the lump of matter, for serving my purpose. That is superior energy. It cannot use me for its purpose.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It has no purpose.
Prabhupāda: No. I can use it for my purpose. Therefore I am superior. (aside:) Come on.
Prabhupāda: No. You can do whichever is very sound and strong.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is very sound and strong.
Prabhupāda: Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). Original ingredient is bhūmi, earth.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So there's no reason... It's pure. It's not a question that it's not pure.
Prabhupāda: No. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Another thing he says... The last point is that he saw... You know in New York they made those busts to be put in libraries, of Your Divine Grace? Some sculptures. Remember I showed you some photographs of...
Prabhupāda: Hm, hm, hm.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says he understood that busts of divine images of guru and Kṛṣṇa are not to be made. He says in New York you explained this point with reference to photographs that were used in Back to Godhead of your divine self that it was impersonal to cut off some portion of the complete worshipable form.
Prabhupāda: No, if it is not worshipable, if it is to be kept in library, that can be done.
Prabhupāda: So where is she?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She is here. She can start cooking right away. We'll have to get her the ingredients.
Prabhupāda: Let her come here.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: See you? Hm. All right.
Hari-śauri: She's probably in the class.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll get her. (break) (Prabhupāda speaks with Śaktimātā in Hindi)
Prabhupāda: So let her do something. (Hindi)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we'll give her the ingredients she requires.
Śaktimātā: I will try same to small baby. You see, it doesn't matter. I will try to give Prabhupāda something, something. Anything Prabhupāda says, "Yes, this I like," and that is suitable for the body, that is good.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. The main problem is that mucus, because if he gets this cough, then he's so weak he cannot cough properly.
Prabhupāda: So let her do something. (Hindi)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we'll give her the ingredients she requires.
Śaktimātā: I will try same to small baby. You see, it doesn't matter. I will try to give Prabhupāda something, something. Anything Prabhupāda says, "Yes, this I like," and that is suitable for the body, that is good.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. The main problem is that mucus, because if he gets this cough, then he's so weak he cannot cough properly.
Śaktimātā: That is I understand. I will use that ginger powder, little, and honey. That is very helpful. Also sometimes I will use that keśura. That thing very useful. Also you can get kophur.(?) You can use your throat always here and near the ear...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He doesn't have a cough now. It's not that he gets... He doesn't have a cold or flu. It's not like that kind of cough. It comes from the kind of food he eats. It causes the mucus. So when you cook, you have to cook in such a way that it doesn't form mucus. It's not that he has a cold.
Prabhupāda: No, Vanamali is no use.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No use. Don't even bother calling him. The only question is that we have given him such expensive ingredients to make that medicine. The musk is worth many hundreds of rupees. Gold and pearls. So the real question in our minds is if this medicine is genuine. We want to know whether the medicine he has prepared is genuine or not.
Prabhupāda: He said it is not.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One thing is that Bhakti-caru should have... When we gave these ingredients... It's just like when you mentioned about the ring. When you give the stone, in front of you it must be made. So with such valuable ingredients... In any case we can find out if it is genuine or not. But if it is not genuine, then the man... Bhakti-caru?
Devotee: This kavirāja mentioned that you get it tested in front of you. I want to make here. He said that "I don't want to make here." This kavirāja said makara-dhvaja.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: My only interest in Vanamali is if by some chance he has done some trick, that I want to find out. Because then I want back the ingredients or the money. That's my only interest. Because we've given him very valuable ingredients.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This Rāmānuja. He looked at it, he said, "This is not makara-dhvaja." Now let us wait. There may be some confusion over the name or something, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I'm not jumping to conclusion yet. But my interest in Vanamali in only that since we gave these valuable ingredients, I want to know that what he gave us is the same thing. I'm not saying that he has played any tricks. Better that we should be patient and check carefully everything. There's no reason to jump to any conclusion yet. It may be that the name he has given is a different name.
Prabhupāda: Then why he did not come?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I also was wondering. Did anyone ask Bhakti-caru? Cause I didn't... I couldn't speak to him. He left just now to take the...
Devotee: You called him?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We wanted Vanamali to come, but for some reason he didn't come. So these things have to be looked into, and we'll do that. Anyway, I think that this is very important that you had this dream, Śrīla Prabhupāda. And your dreams are not ordinary in any way. They're definitely Kṛṣṇa's directing, so I'm sure that there's a significance to the dream. We should follow it through.
Prabhupāda: Where is Bhakti-caru?
Prabhupāda: First of all make it formal.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that can be done. So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, here is Smara-hari, and he's going to be leaving today for South India. We've given him the instructions, and he's the proper person. He knows that chief priest in Śrī Raṅgam temple, and first thing is he's going to find out what are the ingredients of this makara-dhvaja. Then he's going to purchase the ingredients himself, and then he's going to go to the kavirāja and give it to the Rāmānuja kavirāja and have him make it right in front of him. He will supply the ingredients so that he knows the ingredients are bona fide, first class. And he'll see that they make it in front of him.
Prabhupāda: According to the direction of the Rāmānuja...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, he'll have the Rāmānuja man make it. First he'll ask, "What are the ingredients?" Then he'll go and get those ingredients, and he'll bring it to the Rāmānuja man. And the Rāmānuja man will make it.
Prabhupāda: The man must be sincere and experienced.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (aside:) Paper... My pad is in... That man said it would take time. A week. Of course, we don't know if that's a fact or not. But it'll take about a week's time if it only takes a day or two. If it takes a week, then it may take a total of two weeks time until he reaches Māyāpur. When Gopāla and Śatadhanya were in Delhi, they went to see one man who was a very important Marwari kavirāja. They asked him about the ingredients of makara-dhvaja.
Brahmānanda: They asked that question about what medicine the poor man would take.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What medicine the poor man would take. So he said, "Poor man or rich man, it doesn't matter. The price of it is about forty-eight rupees per tolā, because the gold that is given, it's given back at the end." It's just passed through, the gold. It's not utilized itself. So forty-eight rupees a tolā. This is what he said, very big Marwari kavirāja.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that I have heard.
siddha makara-dhvaja. This contains gold and pearl and musk and mica and many other ingredients.
Bhavānanda: And what are the other ingredients you have to take it with?
Śatadhanya: You can take it with either honey or milk. But he recommended that for Prabhupāda's particular condition he take it with honey.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. What did he charge?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What did he charge?
Śatadhanya: Nothing. We got it for free because we got it through one influential man named Chandra Swami.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, Chandra Swami. That's that person Ādi-keśava was always working with.
Prabhupāda: That means he's honest. That's all.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You met Chandra Swami?
Śatadhanya: No, he's in Madras. This is forty-eight doses, two doses a day. That means this is twenty-four days' medicine makara-dhvaja. Two doses per day.
Prabhupāda: So do it carefully. Tamāla?
| Page Title: | Ingredient (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 07 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=93, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 93 |