So the Māyāvādī theory that impersonal, how it stands? Neither God is impersonal, nor the living entities are impersonal. Every one of us—person. The difference between the Supreme Person and our personality is that He is all-powerful; we are limited. Our power is limited. Everything, ours, limited. Aṇu, vibhu. He is great; we are small. He is infinite; we are infinitesimal, very small. Otherwise, in all other qualities, we are one. There is no difference. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). In eternity, in blissfulness, and in knowledge. Everything is there. But Kṛṣṇa's knowledge and our knowledge, different. Just like Kṛṣṇa said, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). "I spoke this yoga system, Bhagavad-gītā, long, long ago to the sun-god." Vivasvān manave prāha. "And the sun-god explained it to his son, Manu; and Manu again, in his turn, he explained to his son, Ikṣvāku. In this way, this knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā is coming by the disciplic succession."
Infinite (Lectures)
Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
There will be child. Similarly, we have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If we discharge our duties faithfully, then in due course of time, Kṛṣṇa will give the desired result. Don't be hesitant. Don't be doubtful. It is sure. Kṛṣṇa says that tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). Anyone who is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness perfectly, for him, after leaving this body, he's coming to Me. This is His assurance. So we haven't got any doubt, Kṛṣṇa has assured. So let us do our duty perfectly, as far as possible. We cannot execute anything perfectly in presence of Kṛṣṇa because He is infinite, we are finite. Our energy, our talent, everything is finite. But if we try our best, then bhāva-grāhī-janārdana. Kṛṣṇa sees only how much sincere I am, how much sincerely I'm executing the duties entrusted upon me. That's all. Otherwise it is not in our power to serve Kṛṣṇa perfectly. That is not... Because we are very teeny. But be assured that the desired result will come if we act sincerely to the point. Yes.
Viṣṇujana: "Similarly there is no other source of understanding the soul except by studying the Vedas. In other words the soul is inconceivable to human experimental knowledge. The soul is conscious and consciousness. That also is the statement of the Vedas and we have to accept that. Unlike the bodily changes there is no change for the soul. As eternally unchangeable, he remains atomic always in comparison to the infinite Supreme Soul."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Unchangeable means... The Māyāvāda theory is that "Now I am finite. I shall become infinite." That's wrong. How you can be? Eternal. Eternally infinite. You'll eternally remain infinite. You cannot be equal with God, the infinite. That is not possible. You'll have to remain as subordinate.
Viṣṇujana: "The Supreme Soul is infinite and the atomic soul is infinitesimal. Therefore the infinitesimal soul being unchangeable can never become equal to the infinite soul."
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is a common sense argument. How it can be? If it is equal to the infinite, how he has become finite? They cannot answer. The impersonalists cannot answer. How he has become finite? They'll simply answer, "It is māyā." Then māyā is greater than the infinite? Then māyā becomes greater than the infinite. Then that God is no more infinite because māyā covers the Supreme, so how He is infinite? He becomes finite? The common sense is that finite Brahman is covered by māyā. Not the infinite. Therefore duality. Finite and infinite living entities. Kṛṣṇa is infinite, and the ordinary living entities are finite. (sound of bells from ice cream truck) What is that? (music of ice cream truck)
Now Arjuna declined to fight, and after hearing Bhagavad-gītā, after understanding Bhagavad-gītā, he agreed, "Yes, I shall fight. Yes." Kṛṣṇa inquired, "Now I have explained to you everything about knowledge, about yoga, about fruitive activities, about devotional service, everything. All-round Vedic wisdom, I have explained to you. Now it is up to you to do or not to do." Mark this. The Supreme Lord can give us instruction. We are individual persons, individual living entities, infinitesimal. The Lord is infinite, and we are infinitesimal. So Lord can advise the infinitesimal to act in a certain way, but the infinitesimal, because it has got infinitesimal independence, it can reject it also. It can accept it or it can reject it. That we have got. That individuality, that independence... (break) "...that all other occupations you please surrender unto Me. You just try to follow Me. Then I take charge of you so that there will be no reaction of your work, and do not hesitate." Mā śucaḥ. This very word. Mā śucaḥ means "Do not hesitate. Do accept it. Do accept." That is the clear declaration of the Lord. You see. This is not for Arjuna only, but every one of us because we are all in the Arjuna's position. Arjuna is a living entity, individual living entity. So we are also, every one of us, a living entity. And the supreme entity—nityo nityānām. In the Vedic literature you'll find this hymn, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Description of the Supreme. The Supreme is nityaḥ nityānām. Nityānām means... Nitya means eternal. So we are all eternal. That we have already discussed.
That is stated in the beginning of this transcendental knowledge. Janma karma (ca) me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). God also working. He is also creating; I am also creating. I am creating a sputnik, a toy planet, and God is creating innumerable, unlimited planets. That is the difference. I can also create something, but that is not as good creative power as God. But I have got some creative power. I have got the tendency for enjoyment. Similarly, God has got the tendency for enjoyment. So there is nothing different from you, God. Only the difference is that He is unlimited; I am limited. I am very small; He is very great. He is infinite; I am infinitesimal.
Vibhu, aṇu. The Sanskrit word is vibhu. Vibhu means the great. God is great. Asamaurdhva. Nobody can be equal to God; nobody can be greater than God. That means everyone is subordinate to God.
Simply these understandings will make you liberated. Janma karma (ca) me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā deham (BG 4.9). This liberation means after quitting this body, you are no more going to accept any material body. You are immediately transferred to the spiritual world, and you get your spiritual body. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). These things are already explained. So try to understand what is God and what you are, what is this material nature, what is your relationship with material nature, with God, with others, what is this time factor, what is work. Then you are in full knowledge and you become liberated. All right.
Yes. That I have already explained, that our relationship with God is that I am infinitesimal, and He is infinite. This is knowledge. I am very small, and He is very great. "God is great." That is definition of every theistic man. So I cannot be equal with God. This is transcendental knowledge.
But unfortunately, we are declaring, "I am God." This is insanity. How you can be God? Do you know what is God? Because you do not know what is God, therefore you are claiming that "I am God." What you have done? What is your testimonial that you are God? Simply by declaring "I am God," you become God? This is no knowledge, less intelligent, no knowledge about God. This is knowledge that God is great. God is infinite. I am finite. I am infinitesimal. That is knowledge. Yes?
Yes. This is the beginning of transcendental life. This chapter, Lord Kṛṣṇa will try to teach the principles of yoga system. So here he begins. That a transcendentalist should always try to concentrate his mind on the supreme self. Supreme self means Kṛṣṇa or Lord. He is the supreme self, as I just explained, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). He is the supreme eternal. He is the supreme living entity. So the whole yoga system is to concentrate mind on the supreme self. We are not supreme self. That you can understand. Supreme self is God. This is dvaita-vāda. Duality. Duality means God is different from me. He is supreme. I am subordinate. He is great, I am small. He is infinite, I am infinitesimal. This is the relationship. So because we are infinitesimal, we should concentrate our mind to the infinite, supreme self. Then, he should live alone. Alone. This is most important thing. Alone means not to live with persons who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious or God conscious. That is alone. He should live alone in a secluded place. Secluded place, there are, or, in the jungle. In the forest. It is very secluded place. But in this age it is very difficult to go to the jungle and find out a secluded place. The secluded place is that where simply God consciousness is taught. That is secluded place. That is secluded place. Then? And should always carefully control his mind. How to control the mind? Just fix up your mind to the supreme self or Kṛṣṇa. Not anything else.
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
"Because Para-brahman is Brahman, I am also Brahman; therefore we are one." No. You are one qualitatively, Brahman. As Brahman you are one. But as Para-brahman and Brahman, you are different. This is acintya-bhedābheda, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's philosophy, simultaneously one and different. As Brahman we are one, but as Para-brahman... Vibhu and aṇu. The Supreme is vibhu, all powerful. I am aṇu, infinitesimal. Infinite and infinitesimal.
So Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, when he was firmly convinced of his position, then he took charge, took charge of ruling over the whole world. Not... Just like at the present moment, India is a small tract of land, and that is also being divided now. Bangladesh has gone out. Pakistan has gone out. Some day some other province will... Not that. The whole world. He took charge of ruling over the whole world. śaśāsa gām indra iva. Indra. Indra is the king of heaven, heavenly planets. So as Indra is powerful... Nobody can even... Indra is never defeated. Sometimes there is fight between the devāsura, asura and deva. But when there is fight between the deva and asura... Deva means the demigod, and asura means the atheist class. They are always existing, the atheist class, two classes of men, atheist class and theist class.
As we have got feelings for our relatives, for our brothers, for our sisters, for our friends, for our enemies, the same thing there is also. If you study your personality or your friend's personality, you can get a rough idea of the Supreme Personality because our personality is dependent on the Supreme Personality. Mamaivāṁśaḥ. We are simply fragmental personalities just like the sparks and the fire, or the drop of ocean water and the ocean. The difference is in quantity. A drop of ocean water or a fragmental spark of the fire is of the same quality like the fire or the ocean. But in magnitude it is very, very small. God is vibhu, the greatest, and we are the smallest. God is infinite, we are finite, infinitesimal. That is the difference. Otherwise everything is there, as we have got.
Just like the son inherits the quality of the father, similarly... We are supposed to be sons of the Supreme Person. Therefore, in minute quantity we have got all the qualities of God. Not all. Seventy-eight percent. In very minute quantity. That is our perfection. If we revive godly qualities seventy-eight percent, in minute quantity, that is our perfection. That is there, already there. Simply it is covered by this material energy. Otherwise everything is there. So the feelings of affection, there is also in Kṛṣṇa.
We simply change the body. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). As old garments, old shirts and coats, we change, similarly, when this body becomes old enough, not to be used, we change to another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). This is real knowledge.
So we are eternal, and God is also eternal. In that way we are the same quality. God is eternal; we are also eternal. God is cognizant, cetana, abhijña; we are also cetana. We are not dull matter. So what is the difference between God and me? The difference: He is great, we are small. He is vibhu, we are aṇu. He's all-pervading, we are very small. He is infinite, we are infinitesimal. That is the difference. So nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). That is the Vedic information. So you apply your reason, arguments. As you find here, you are more intelligent than me, somebody else more intelligent than you, other is more intelligent than he... In this way, if you analyze, there is not, all of us not on the same level. One is more intelligent, one is less intelligent. Similarly, you go on analyzing, one after another, one after another, throughout the whole universe. Then you come to the demigods.
So when we can see that we are not this body, "I am not this body," that is beginning of self-realization. That is called brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20) stage. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am not this material body." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. This is self-realization.
So what is the identification of the jīva, of the soul? Very minute. Aṇimānam. Very, very minute, infinitesimal. God is infinite, and we are infinitesimal, very small particle. Just like sun. Sun is very big, but the sunshine, it is a combination of very minute, bright articles, atoms. Everyone knows. It is a combination of, I mean to say, dazzling, bright... Similarly, we are also a small, bright particle, the same quality. Svayaṁ-jyoti. Just like God, or Brahman, is jyoti, we are also jyoti. But Brahman is all-pervading, infinite; we are aṇimānam. So Māyāvādī theory is that "At the present moment... I am the same." They, their theory is ghaṭākāśa-poṭākāśa. Just like a ghaṭa, or in a pot, there is, within the pot there is sky, and outside the pot there is sky. So the separation is due to the wall of the pot. If the... When the wall is broken, then the inside sky and the outside sky become one. This is Māyāvāda theory.
Prabhupāda: You may not be, but others are. They do not like to be old man and suffer the old man's position. (break) He says that,
- māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya
- ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ
- striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās
- te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatiṁ
- (BG 9.32)
Striya means woman. So there is no restriction for going back to home, back to Godhead, for anyone, and what to speak of man, woman, anyone. If he wants to go back, there is no restriction. Te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. This is the difference. For God there is no discrimination. Women, men have equal rights to become godly and back to home, back to Godhead.
Guest (3): How you reconcile the void... God is infinite and He is all places, and you said just now that God has form. To have form would mean that He has..., He is finite... (indistinct) And how could you reconcile these two: He is formless, and He has form. He has form and yet infinite?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: His question is that...
Prabhupāda: God is infinite?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: What is the special quality that makes one a spiritual master to describe the infinite when God is beyond speculation?
Prabhupāda: God is beyond speculation, that's it. But the spiritual master says what God says. He does not change. That is spiritual master. Just like a child, he asks his father, "Father, what is this?" The father says, "My dear child, it is microphone." So when the child says, "It is microphone," this is correct, although he is child. So spiritual master means he says in toto what he hears from God. That's all. That is spiritual master. He does not make any speculation. That is the qualification of spiritual master. He speaks what he has heard from God. That's all.
So long one is in māyā... Now our beginning is that we accept immediately the great the great and the small the small. We understand from the Vedic literature: mahato mahīyān aṇor aṇīyān. Aṇu means atom. The atom, he is, the Brahman, or the spirit, is smaller than the atom. Aṇor aṇīyān, still smaller. And mahato mahīyān: and the greater than the greatest. We have the conception of the greatest, the sky. But Kṛṣṇa showed that millions of skies were within His mouth. So therefore mahato mahīyān. So actually we, the living entities, we are part and parcel of God, but we are very minute quantity, infinitesimal. And God is infinite. So infinitesimal, our magnitude is, I've several times explained, one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. So you cannot even imagine with your material senses. Therefore aṇor aṇīyān, smaller than the atom. The same thing—we are also spirit, and Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Lord, is also spirit. Qualitatively we are one. But we are the smallest and He is the greatest. So we accept it immediately from the Vedic information. Therefore our position is safe. We do not falsely declare that "I am God."
Similarly, this separated energy, material energy, it is false, just like the doll. Nobody's attracted. Nobody's going to love offer, offer love to that doll girl because everyone knows, "This is false." Similarly, those who are intelligent, they are not interested to take any serious part in this material world because it is separated energy, and it is acting so nicely, with the complication of three modes of nature, goodness, passion and ignorance... This is also discussed, that there are three guṇas, and if you multiply it with three, three into three, it becomes nine. Then nine into nine equal to eighty-one. Then go on, eighty-one into eighty-one. It will, increases infinitely.
So this energy is acting in such a way that those who are not in exactly knowledge, they are bewildered. They think, "This is the end, nature, material nature." But this material nature is temporary—everyone knows it—as your body is temporary. It is born, it is stays for sometimes, it grows, it becomes very beautiful, and it produces some by-products, some children, or nice boys and girls, then becomes old and then vanishes, these six changes. Similarly, you should know anything material, they are under these six changes, and when vanishes, it will never come back again. It finishes forever. Your this nice body, when it will vanish, nobody can get it back. Suppose one man's very beautiful son or daughter has died. There is no power in this world which can bring back that body again. That is not possible. Therefore any sane man, any intelligent man, they should understand that "This is false. Behind this body, what is there?" That is being analyzed. This is self-analysis.
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
Mādhavānanda: "He knows that the spirit soul, being subordinate and finite, should always dovetail himself with the infinite and supreme soul, Kṛṣṇa. That is the relationship of the wise man with Kṛṣṇa.
"It can be concluded that a person who is freed from the bodily concept of life is an eligible candidate for pure devotional service."
Prabhupāda: "It can be concluded that a person who is freed from the bodily concept of life is an eligible candidate for pure devotional service." People generally think that by, through devotional service, one rises to the platform of Brahman-jñāna, nirbheda brahmānu-sandhana. Even the so-called devotees—they are called sahajiyās—their ultimate goal is to merge into the existence of Brahman. That Rajani Sena, Bombay, he's also preaching in that way. And their process is very abominable. The, the sahajiyās, they also think like that, that by sex one can rise to that platform of merging into the effulgence of Brahman. Even Vivekananda was talking that "This Vaiṣṇava religion is a religion of sex." They have been so much misrepresented. By sexual indulgence, one can become one with the Supreme.
Bhavānanda: "One must know that he is finite and that the Lord is infinite. Thus it is not possible to actually become one with the Lord even if one aspires for this."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Simply desiring... Tvayy aviśuddha-bhāva. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ. Māninaḥ. Maliya (Hindi) Ne. Not like that. Go on.
Bhavānanda: "Therefore anyone who has any desire or aspiration for satisfying his senses by becoming more and more important, either in the material sense or in the spiritual sense, cannot actually relish the really sweet taste of devotional service. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī has therefore compared possessing these bhukti (material) and mukti (liberation) desires with being influenced by the black art of a witch. In both cases, one is in trouble. Bhukti means material enjoyment, and mukti means to become freed from material anxiety and to become one with the Lord. These desires are compared to being haunted by ghosts and witches, because while these aspirations for material enjoyment or spiritual oneness with the Supreme remain, no one can relish the actual transcendental taste of devotional service. A pure..."
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
"We are now under the control of māyā. Therefore we have forgotten that we are all Gods." In the Nikhilananda's book, this is explained. He is discussing Vivekananda's speech, that "We are all Gods. Every one of us, we are God." "Then why you have become dog?" "That we do not know." That is the explanation. But actually, the explanation is that we are also Brahman, but not Bhagavān, the Supreme Brahman. That is the explanation. Therefore we are prone to be under the subjugation of māyā. This is real explanation. I am, I am not the Supreme Brahman. The greatest Brahman, I am not. Brahman means 'greatest,' but I am also Brahman, but I am... The infinite and the infinitesimal. We are infinitesimal. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā also—mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ: (BG 15.7) "My, these living entities, they are My parts and parcels." Such parts and parcels of the Brahman is also Brahman. As part and parcel, minute particle, of gold is also gold, minute particle of poison is also poison, so similarly, we are minute, atomic part and parcel of the Supreme. Therefore we are not the unlimited or the biggest.
Kṛṣṇa is conscious, cetana, and we are also conscious. That is equality: equality in quality. Because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, therefore there is so many things equality. But that equality is just like the ocean and a drop of water of the ocean. If you analyze the ocean, you'll find the same chemical ingredients, and if you analyze the drop of ocean, you'll find the same chemical ingredients. That is equality. But you cannot think that the drop is equal to the ocean. That is not possible. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is vibhu. God is great, and we are anu, infinitesimal. Kṛṣṇa is infinite, we are infinitesimal. So when there is question of merging into the existence of the Supreme, that means we remain in the effulgence, Brahman effulgence, as the minute particle of Brahman. There is dimension. That is mentioned in the śāstras: keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca (CC Madhya 19.140). One ten-thousandth part of the upper portion of hair. That minute particle, cetana. So there is... Anantāya kalpite. There are innumerable such particles. That is the formation of nirviśeṣa-brahman. That is nirākāra-brahman.
Sri Brahma-samhita Lectures
Similarly, any living entity who is trying to become God, he's not very much liked by God. He cannot become God, but this very endeavor, to become God, to become a competitor of God, is not very much liked. That person is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā as dviṣataḥ, envious. Tān aham dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram andhā yoniṣu (BG 16.19). Such persons, envious persons, are put into the hellish condition of life. They are envious of God's position. They want to occupy high position in this material world, and when they are frustrated, they think "Now I shall occupy the position of God." But that will be also frustrated. Nobody can become God. God is God, and living entity's living entity. He's supreme, He's infinite; we are infinitesimal. Our position is to serve God. That is our perfect position. That will make us happy. Not otherwise. Not by imitating how to become God. That is impossible. How you can become God? Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ (Bs. 5.48). There are innumerable universes, and within the breathing period of Mahā-Viṣṇu so many universes are coming out by exhaling. And when He inhales, so many universes are dissolved within His body. So how we can become God? God is not so cheap.
Festival Lectures
"That's very nice. Everything is fine." Like a hog, hog eating stool. He's thinking, "Oh, it's very nice." But the human being will not accept such awful things. The human being has the chance to get out of this shackle of continued, repeated births and deaths.
So simply by hearing the message of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Bhagavad-gītā, and the names of Kṛṣṇa diligently, submissively, and from a bona fide source, we can immediately get some relief from this material existence. Just like when we were chanting here you could feel some ecstasy. Well, this ecstasy goes unlimitedly and infinitely, eternally, if one takes to it. It's not as if you reach some point of enlightenment and then you're enlightened. No. But it's always eternal, ever increasing. Just like the relationship between ourselves and our spiritual master is eternal and ever increasing, our relationship with God is the same. So please try to realize that this is a very serious movement, and we're not asking you to sign up or pay us anything, but simply to sincerely try it and you'll immediately feel some benefit. Thank you.
Initiation Lectures
This material world is darkness. And one who has transcended the darkness region and has come to the region of light... Jyotir gamaḥ tamasa mā, "Don't remain in this darkness. Go to the light." So that is called uttamam. Uttamam. Udgata tamaṁ yasmād. So questions, jijñāsuḥ, inquisitive, of transcendental matter. There are many things to inquire. Śrotavyādīni rājan. There is... in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam... There are many subject matter for inquiry and hearing. But one who is interested in hearing about the transcendental subject matter, ramante yoginaḥ anante (CC Madhya 9.29), the unlimited, infinite subject matter, for him a spiritual master is needed. Not for all. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21).
And who is spiritual master? That is also stated. Śābde pare ca niṣṇātam. Śābde means the Vedic śruti, śruti. This is called śābda-brahma. One who has learned both śruti and smṛti. Śruti means Vedas, and smṛti means books derived from Vedic knowledge. That is called smṛti. And Śrī Rūpa Gosvāmī says in his Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, śruti smṛti.
General Lectures
Because you are American it does not mean that you are on the equal level with the president. Is it not a fact? Similarly, we are qualitatively one with God. Qualitatively means that whatever you have got as spirit soul, the same thing is also in God. There is no difference in quality. Just like you take a drop of water from the vast Atlantic sea and you chemically analyze the ingredients. The composition of the drop of water is equal to the composition of the vast Atlantic water. Drop of water is equal to the vast mass of water in the Atlantic Ocean. Similarly, you are a spark of the Supreme Spirit Soul. You have got all the chemical qualities or composition as God has. But God is great; you are minute. He is infinite; you are infinitesimal. Qualitatively one, but quantitatively different. So those who are simply accepting the feature of being qualitatively one, they are called Advaitavādis. They are mistaking that quantitatively they cannot be equal. If quantitatively the living entity is equal to God, then why he is fallen in this conditional life of material existence? That means being his constitutional position very infinitesimal, he is prone to be caught up by the influence of māyā. And if you say that you are also the Supreme, then how you are caught by the māyā? Then māyā becomes great; God is not great.
If I am God, if I am great, then how I have come to this position? How I have fallen from my brahma-bhūtaḥ stage? That is not actually understanding. Brahma-bhūtaḥ, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, means "I am part and parcel of the Supreme Brahman." This is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā and every Vedic literature, that the living entities are just like sparks of the fire, just like there is big fire and there are sparks also, small particle of fire. That small particle of fire is also fire, but it is not as big as the big fire. Similarly, in quality we are as good as Brahman, but in quantity we are minute, infinitesimal, and He is infinite. That is the difference.
So this philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā, supported by the movement of Lord Caitanya, chanting the holy name of Hare Kṛṣṇa, we are trying to push on in this part of the world, in pursuance of the order of Lord Caitanya, that pṛthivīte ache yata nagaradi grāma. (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126) So I'll request Indian ladies and gentlemen who are present here to join this movement.
Young man (6): Don't you think that since there are people of different temperaments, different kinds of people, that... How should I say it? Don't you think that by denying rāja and jñāna and some of the other yogas that you're denying the infinite aspect of mankind? Don't you think that by asserting bhakti-yoga as the only way that you're saying that...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Infinite aspect. We are publishing one article, "Dr. Frog." Dr. Frog means... Perhaps you know, everyone. The frog lives in a well. That is only a few feet. And one, another frog, he's giving information to his friend in the well, "My dear friend, I have seen a vast water, Atlantic Ocean." But this frog has never seen Atlantic Ocean. He's calculating, "It may be so much big. It may be so much big. It may be so much big." So how this infinity can be calculated by the frog? So those who are calculating infiniteness of this tiny soul, they're all Dr. Frogs. You are not infinite. You are finite. How you can be infinite? You can be infinite only when you dovetail yourself with the infinite. Individually you are finite. That is the position, real position. In the Bhagavad-gītā in the Fifteenth Chapter... You have read Bhagavad-gītā? So did you not read this verse in the Fifteenth Chapter, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loka sanātanaḥ (BG 15.7)? Have you read this? That "These living entities, they're My parts and parcels, fragmental parts." So you are... God is infinite. You are infinitesimal part and parcel. So how you can be infinite?
And we are so small, infinitesimal; still, we have got so many propensities, so many desires, so many activities, so many brain work. Just imagine how much greater brain work and desire and propensities are there in God, because He's great. His greatness means all these things, what you have got, that is existing in Him in greatness. That's all. Qualitatively, we are one, but quantitatively, we are different. He's great; we are small. He is infinite; we are infinitesimal. Therefore the conclusion is, just like infinite particles of fire, sparks, when they are with the fire, they look very nice with fire and sparks. But when the sparks are out of the fire, main fire, they extinguish. No more fire. Similarly, we are sparks of Kṛṣṇa or God. When we associate with God, then our, that illuminating power, fire, is renovated. Otherwise, we are extinguished. Although you are sparks, our present life, this material life, is covered. The spark is covered, or extinguished almost. This is only example. It cannot be extinguished.
When Kṛṣṇa said that "This philosophy was spoken by Me to the sun-god millions of years ago," Arjuna inquired, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, how can I believe that you spoke some millions of years ago this philosophy to the sun-god?" What was the answer? The answer is, Kṛṣṇa said, "Yes, millions and millions of times I also appeared, and you also appeared. The difference is that you do not remember, I remember." That is the difference between God and ordinary living being. Otherwise, qualitatively, God and the living entity the same. So only difference is that He is great, infinite. Therefore, we can not calculate His infinite qualities. But I, being infinitesimal, my qualities, my capacities, my energy, they are very infinitesimal. Therefore, I forget. And because I forget, therefore I cannot remember what was my body in my last birth. Because I cannot remember. Death means forget. Just like at night you forget everything, sleeping. Similarly, when this body is finished, we forget about this body. We are interested in the next body. So this forgetfulnss is the opposite number of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa conscious, we are trying to revive Kṛṣṇa consciousness means we are trying to get out of this conditional life of forgetfulness. That is our perfection of life. We are trying to achieve that perfectional state of life. That is called struggle for existence, and somehow or other defeated.
Guest (3): Your Divine Grace, we can know something about God, either through our sense knowledge or true concept, etc., but how do we know God, if I can make that distinction? You know? God isn't something that can be sensed and He isn't something that can be grasped by the finite mind. The infinite, as you said... But how do we know God?
Prabhupāda: Yes. God is unapproachable by your mental concoction. But there is another process: if you understand God by this the paramparā system. Just like on this roof there is some sound, and every one of us making some suggestion what is the sound: "This may be like this. This may be like that. This may be like that." This is one process of knowledge, to understand the unseen by speculation. This is one. It may be successful or may not be successful. There is no certainty. But if somebody from the roof says, "The sound is due to this," then our knowledge is perfect. Similarly, if we speculate about God, who is Adhokṣaja, who is beyond the range of our mind and speculation, then it is very... Then we can come to the conclusion of Brahman realization, impersonal God, no more than. But if we hear from God or His representative, then we get perfect knowledge of God.
So we can see that it is the desire of the pure devotee. Whatever Kṛṣṇa wants, He does not have to work at all. His desires are immediately fulfilled simply by His desiring. Everything is fulfilled. By Kṛṣṇa's finger signal the whole material creation is created, brought about, and it's maintained by His separate energies. And everything is annihilated by Kṛṣṇa's will and created again. And Kṛṣṇa, He is fulfilling all His infinite desires in the spiritual world also. So as Kṛṣṇa's desires are immediately fulfilled, the pure devotee's desires are also fulfilled. That's because he is one with the Lord. His interests are the same are Kṛṣṇa's. This is the oneness, that the pure devotee has no desire but to see that Kṛṣṇa is satisfied. And so by Śrīla Prabhupāda's desiring this to come about, praying to Kṛṣṇa, therefore the devotees also praying and endeavoring have brought about that now Toronto is situated in such a nice temple, and just since opening that temple now so many new devotees have come and joined. So it's now very firmly situated in this big North American city to go on spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Philosophy Discussions
Hayagrīva: In his, uh... Hume appears opposed to the search for God in the ideal world. He writes, "Why not stop at the material world? How can we satisfy ourselves without going on ad infinitum, forever. If the material world rests upon a similar ideal world, this ideal world must rest upon some other and so on, without end. It were better, therefore, never to look beyond the present material world.
Prabhupāda: Material world means full of miseries. Therefore those who are advanced, they are searching after another world where there is no misery. This is the idea. And this searching after happy world, that is permanent. Everyone is searching after that. That is not unnatural. But actually there is such world, and if there is, why should you not hanker after that world?
Hayagrīva: He appears opposed...
Prabhupāda: Two things: that this world is experienced, nobody is happy, unless he is an animal. Animal, they do not know what is happiness or distress. In any condition they remain satisfied. But a man, he feels pain. Just like our Hari-śauri was speaking that there were reports that because the children cry, sometimes parents kill them. This is the world. And actually there have been many cases. So from practical point of view, this world is not happy. That is a fact.
Śyāmasundara: He says logically these are not fallacious; both sides are true. For instance, his first antimony is, "The world has a beginning in time and is enclosed in limits of space." This is the thesis. Then the antithesis is, "The world has no beginning in time and no limits in space, but is infinite with regard to both time and space." So he says reasonably both conclusions are true.
Prabhupāda: So how to adjust? How to adjust is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. It says this material phenomenal world is coming into existence and again annihilated. Again coming. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). So this material nature, coming in manifestation and again vanquished, this process, coming into existence and then vanquished, this is also true. Just like day and night, it is coming and going. This is true. But night is not day; day is not night.
Śyāmasundara: The first antimony describes the quantity of the world. The second antimony deals with the quality of the world. The thesis is, "Every composite substance in the world is made up of simple parts, and nothing whatever exists but the simple, or that which is composed out of the simple." And the antithesis is, "No composite thing in the world is made up of simple parts, nor does anything simple exist anywhere in the world." On the one hand, everything is simple, made up of simple parts. On the other hand, nothing is simple; everything is complex.
Prabhupāda: Even inborn there is, you must get it confirmed by the superior.
Śyāmasundara: He says that man, because he respects the moral law and practices it, is a personality having infinite dignity. He believes in the dignity of man based upon his adherence to moral principles. If a man follows moral principles, then he has dignity, which is different than any other...
Prabhupāda: That is already explained, that varṇāśrama-dharma, because the brāhmaṇas, they follow the good laws, therefore dignity. A brāhmaṇa is supposed to be the first-class man in the society, and therefore they are honored.
Śyāmasundara: He says everything else has an exchange value or a price, but man alone possesses self-direction or dignity, and this is priceless, and so we should never stoop to sell ourselves. If we sell ourselves like a commodity, then we lose our dignity.
Prabhupāda: Ad infinitum, ad infinitum, like that.
Śyāmasundara: Like the square root of minus one. There is no substantial reference for that idea but there is an equation: the square root of minus one.
Prabhupāda: The ultimate understanding, if we have accept this formula janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), so everything is emanating from the substance, so without having a place of that idea in the substance, you cannot have... That is another thing (indistinct). Because you are also a product of that something. So whatever you are thinking, that must be there, in the original.
Śyāmasundara: Suppose I have an idea, tomorrow I want to go to Pittsburgh. So then I actualize my idea, tomorrow if I go to the airplane, airport, get a ticket...
Prabhupāda: But you have heard that Pittsburgh, there is a place, a substance, you may not have seen. So you are preparing to go to Pittsburgh means Pittsburgh is a fact. Not idea. You are not going to idea Pittsburgh, you are going to actual Pittsburgh. That you have known, therefore you are (indistinct). You might have not seen. Just like I came to New York. I never saw it. I got an idea, "It may be like this."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Different levels of consciousness.
Śyāmasundara: I see.
Karandhara: And within any species there can an infinite variety of variations of that one species. Just like...
Prabhupāda: Just like the scientists, their species is different. Just like we are making division that 400,000 different types of men. They will say this is one species.
Śyāmasundara: So would you say, for instance, someone who is less intelligent or more intelligent than I am is in a different species?
Prabhupāda: Less intelligent or more intelligent does not make any species, because suppose you have got five children, one is less intelligent, more intelligent.
Prabhupāda: There they're missing the whole point.
Karandhara: But they're trying to find out information for themselves, and for others around them, but not knowing who they are, they're drawing on a material platform which is infinite, or at least infinite as far as their capacity to understand. So not only will they never be able to understand the material, the construction of the material arrangement, but at ultimate issue it has no pertinence, anyway. It doesn't mean anything.
Śyāmasundara: No. It does mean something if you accept that forms are evolving from simple to complex. That means that we can expect in the future that mankind will even be of a more superior nature than they are now.
Prabhupāda: Forms are... One form is superior than the other form. (indistinct) you said.
Karandhara: If there's an equilibrium, there has to be some principle, or energetic.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think the book is written just so that the (indistinct) looks like, funny things broken down. He himself says whether the universe is finite or infinite (indistinct) modern telescopic experiments can (indistinct) but beyond that he said maybe the universe is finite (indistinct) that is beyond our knowledge, beyond our capacity.
Śyāmasundara: This is a diagram of four different possibilities of what the universe looks like.
Prabhupāda: This is very nice-horse saddle.
Śyāmasundara:The round one?
Prabhupāda: No, no the next.
Śyāmasundara:This one?
Prabhupāda: This one.
Śyāmasundara: Yes, they call it a saddle.
Hayagrīva: Yes. He sees the material worlds as being isolated. He says, "There is then a bond between the worlds, but this bond may be regarded as infinitely loose in comparison with the mutual dependence which unites the parts of the same world among ourselves," excuse me, "which unites the parts of the same world among themselves. So that it is not artificially for reasons of mere convenience that we isolate our solar system. Nature itself invites us to isolate it." So this, this calls to mind the image of a prison house. The isolation of the world, as far as man is concerned, is isolation imposed by material nature on the conditioned.
Prabhupāda: He is isolated. He is thinking in the wrong way. Just like in the prison house every prisoner, every, every criminal is different from other criminal. So everyone has to suffer the consequence of his criminal activities, so every individual person is suffering or enjoying according to his past deeds. So there cannot be any combination. Then we forget the individuality. That is not possible.
Hayagrīva: This is the continuation of Mill. He writes, "Limited as, on this showing, the Divine power must be, by inscrutable and insurmountable obstacles due to the existence of evil." Mill concludes that the existence of evil in the universe, or what he considers to be evil, pain and death, excludes the existence of an omnipotent God. He sees man in a position to aid the intentions of providence by surmounting his evil instincts. So God is not all-powerful, infinite in His power. If He were, there would be no evil, according to Mill.
Prabhupāda: No. God, evil is created by God undoubtedly, but the, it was necessary on account of the human being as, misuse of his free will. God gives him good direction but when he is disobedient, then naturally the evil power is there to punish him. Therefore the evil is not created by God but still it is created. It is necessary. Just like the government constructs the prison house. So this prison house creation is not the government's intention. Government wants that university is sufficient, people may be educated and highly enlightened, but because some, not all, misuses the independence, little independence, he creates evil circumstances, and he is compulsorily put into the prison house. Similarly, we suffer on account of our own evil activities but God, being Supreme, He punishes us for our evil activities. For God there isn't... When we are under the protection of God, there is nothing evil, only good thing. There is no evil. So God does not create evil but man's evil activities obliges God to create an evil situation.
Śyāmasundara: He says this anxiety is evidence of finitude.
Prabhupāda: Mm?
Śyāmasundara: He says that anxiety is evidence of finitude, or that being finite, opposite of infinite.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Yes.
Śyāmasundara: If one is finite, then there is automatically anxiety.
Prabhupāda: But the..., we want to be anxietyless. That means we are infinite, according to that philosophy.
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Anxiety is there when I think that I am finite. Just like when I think that Mr. Bhatiwalla(?) is trying to get us out, then we are in anxiety. And if we know that there is no such thing, we can live here... So we want to live infinitely. When that is disturbed, there is anxiety. Therefore it appears that we are infinite. But we have been put into finite condition. That is the cause of anxiety. Now, therefore, the intelligent person should try to come to the platform of infiniteness.
So we want to live infinitely. When that is disturbed, there is anxiety. Therefore it appears that we are infinite. But we have been put into finite condition. That is the cause of anxiety. Now, therefore, the intelligent person should try to come to the platform of infiniteness. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa says that tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). There are many others... There are many devotees, just to avoid this birth, death, old age, many have attained success. These things are stated in Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore the conclusion is it will become anxietyless to have infinite life. One must (indistinct) Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is the conclusion. And there is no question of avoiding. If you avoid, then you..., it must be remain entangled. It is a question of must. You must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness if you actually... Prahlāda Mahārāja recommends that, that when he was asked by his father what is the best thing he had learned, he said this is the best thing: that he should give up this materialistic way of life and take shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. That is the best thing. Tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehinām. Dehinām means those who have accepted the material body. For them. And dehinām, one who has accepted this body, sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt (SB 7.5.5), because he is eternal, but he has accepted something which is not eternal, asat. It is limited. He is unlimited, but he is entrapped by something which is limited. Therefore, sadā samudvigna-dhiyām. Just like we have got our own land in Māyāpur, so we can go and live there. There is no question of Bhatiwalla. But we won't go there.
Hayagrīva: And in his book, his autobiography, Memories, Dreams, Reflections, we find most of his thoughts about the, about theology and psychoanalysis. In that book he writes, "I find that all my thoughts circle around God like the planets around the sun and are as irresistibly attracted by Him. I would feel it to be the grossest sin if I were to oppose any resistance to this force." He sees all creatures as parts of God. He says, "Man cannot compare himself with any other creature. He is not a monkey, not a cow, not a tree. I am a man. But what is it to be that? Like every other being, I am a splinter of the infinite Deity."
Prabhupāda: Part and parcel. That is our theory. We are part and parcel of God. Like fire and the sparks.
Hayagrīva: He writes, "It was obedience which brought me grace. One must be utterly abandoned to God. Nothing matters but fulfilling His will. Otherwise all is folly and meaninglessness."
He is person. That is the Vedic description. He is person exactly like us, but His personality is unlimited. The same example I was giving, that I am a person so far I am concerned with this particular body, but He is a person living in every body, Super Person. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is also said that that personality, either of God or of the individual soul, eternally existing. In the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa says that in the past we are existing, at present we are existing, and in the future we shall continue to exist. So past, present, future. That means all the time, eternally, both of them are person. One person is unlimited, and the other person is limited. Finite and infinite. So God is person, but the unlimited qualities, unlimited characteristics, unlimited power, unlimited strength, unlimited influence, unlimited knowledge. That is God. And we are also the same—person—with little power, little influence, little knowledge, everything limited. That is the difference between two personalities. One is limited, another is unlimited, but the qualities are the same.
Śyāmasundara: ...there is a tiger. There is a real object in my consciousness.
Prabhupāda: And because it is real object, it is reacting on my physical life.
Śyāmasundara: He describes ultimate reality as space-time. Space and time. He says that time is an infinity of instants, single instants, and that the basis of infinity is a point, and that these two are combined and this is called reality.
Prabhupāda: Infinity of?
Śyāmasundara: Point.
Prabhupāda: Points and?
Śyāmasundara: Infinity of instants.
Prabhupāda: Instinct.
Śyāmasundara: Instant. Like a moment is an instant.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Hm.
Prabhupāda: He believes some way and other believes some way, so which is..., which one is correct?
Hayagrīva: He does not follow Plato's dualism of the "here" and the "there." Plato made a sharp distinction between the material universe and the spiritual universe, but Aristotle believes there is no sharp distinction because God expresses Himself in matter. Since matter is simply one of God's energies, the finite reflects the infinite.
Prabhupāda: So what is the other energy? Does he know?
Hayagrīva: He doesn't concern himself with that. He says that by knowing something of the world about us, we can know something about God.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: So his, his...
Hayagrīva: Here's another point. Aristotle says that it is not material objects that are trying to realize God, like as Plato says, but God realizing Himself through material objects. God does this in a variegated way and in an infinite way. So God realizes the potentiality of a rose or of a man by creating a rose, a flower, a man that is perceivable by the material senses. So the world is more real to Aristotle than it is to Plato.
Prabhupāda: If God has created the material world and material variety, so means He is in full awareness how to do things nicely. That is perfectness of God. He knows everything how to do it perfectly, naturally. Just like even a child, we get daily experience, when we offer some cake in the Deity room, the child immediately takes it and puts in the mouth. Although she is very small baby, (s)he doesn't require any education about taking the cake and what to do with it. Immediately puts in the mouth. So this natural, what is called, knowledge, that is God's knowledge. He knows everything perfectly well, and when He produces a rose flower, it is all-perfect. That is God's... God is not..., He has to get the knowledge through some source. He is already in awareness of everything. That is God. So He hasn't got to know His capacity through matter.
Hayagrīva: This is Origen, who lived from 185-254 A.D., and he studied at Alexandria, Egypt, during the same time as Plotinus. In fact he knew Plotinus, but Origen was a Christian and is considered the founder of Christian philosophy. He believed that ultimate reality, which is spiritual, consists of the Supreme Infinite Person, God, as well as individual personalities. Ultimate reality is the interrelationships of persons with each other and with the Infinite Person, God. So he differed from Plotinus in the belief that God has personality.
Prabhupāda: Yes. God is personal. He is also believing personality. "Father," he says, Plotinus, but his ideas are not very clear. Did he not, Plotinus, say "the fatherland"?
Hayagrīva: He mentioned the father, but that...
Prabhupāda: The father is person. Anyway, we shall discuss this tomorrow.
Hayagrīva: The...
Prabhupāda: What is this philosopher?
Hayagrīva: Origen.
Prabhupāda: Origen. All right. We shall discuss tomorrow.
Hayagrīva: You want to discuss tomorrow? (break) I'm just touching the main points in these, but since we're not interested in comparative theology, I'm just touching the main philosophical differences in these early Christian theologian philosophers. Origen believed that the ultimate reality, which is spiritual, consists of the Supreme Infinite Person, God, as well as individual personalities. Ultimate reality is the interrelationships of persons with each other and with the Infinite Person, God. So here he differs from the Greeks, who were basically impersonal.
Prabhupāda: Our Vedic conception is almost the same, that the individual souls, or living entities, innumerable, and each one of them has an intimate relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In the material condition of life the living entity has forgotten his relationship, and when, by the process of devotional service, he comes to his liberated position, at that time he revives his old relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Hayagrīva: Origen ascribed to the doctrine of the Trinity. In the Trinity, God the father is Supreme, God the son, who's called the logos, L-O-G-O-S, which is Greek for word, is subordinate to the father, and he brings the material world into existence.
Hayagrīva: Origen believed that it is through divine grace and man's free will working together that the individual soul attains perfection, and perfection consists of attaining a personal relationship with the Infinite Person.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is called Bhakti-mārga. The Absolute Truth is manifested in three features: Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān. Bhagavān is the personal feature, and Paramātmā feature may be compared with the Holy Ghost when situated in everyone's heart. And Brahman feature, everywhere. By His energy He is present everywhere. So the perfection, highest perfection of spiritual life, is to understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the person, personal feature of the Lord, and engages himself, the living entity engages himself in His service. Then he is situated in his original, constitutional position, and he is eternally happy and blissful.
Hayagrīva: Just as man's free will brought about his fall, man's free will can also bring about his salvation. By becoming detached from matter, man can return to God, but this detachment from matter is brought about by the assistance of the Christ.
Hayagrīva: And this reason... He says, "I fall into error because the power which God has given me of distinguishing the true from the false is not in me an infinite power." So by reason we can never...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: ...be certain...
Prabhupāda: Yes, infinite. I am, I am finite. I, as soul or as Brahman, am finite Brahman, and therefore there must be one infinite Brahman. That infinite Brahman is God, and finite Brahman is jīva, living entity. Therefore in the Vedic literature the God is accepted as the chief living being. Just like we have got in our family the father is supposedly chief man in the family, and sons and daughters, they are subordinate. These are common understanding. Similarly, God is the origin of all living entities and we are subordinate living entity, just like the father and the sons, and that is accepted by any religious sect, that God is the supreme father and we are son. That is accepted everywhere. And as the sons, children, they exist by the mercy of the father, similarly, our existence is continuing on account of mercy of the supreme father. This is reasoning.
Hayagrīva: He says, "These perfections which I am attributing to God, which are infinite, immutable, independent, all-knowing, all-powerful..."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: "...these perfections are in some fashion potentially in me...,"
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: "...although they do not show themselves."
Prabhupāda: But they are finite. They are finite, very small particle. That I have already explained many times, that the creative force is in me. I can create also. Now in the modern scientific knowledge, so I have created a big plane floating in the air, but I cannot create another planet with so many mountains and vast water, oceans, and trees. That I cannot do. That is done by God. This planet is also floating in the air and the tiny 747 plane is also floating in the air. So that is created by me, infinite, ah, finite. I have no other more power. Even if I float a city like plane, still I am finite. But God has created this planet or many other planets with so many things—mountains, seas and forests and cities and so many.
They are finite, very small particle. That I have already explained many times, that the creative force is in me. I can create also. Now in the modern scientific knowledge, so I have created a big plane floating in the air, but I cannot create another planet with so many mountains and vast water, oceans, and trees. That I cannot do. That is done by God. This planet is also floating in the air and the tiny 747 plane is also floating in the air. So that is created by me, infinite, ah, finite. I have no other more power. Even if I float a city like plane, still I am finite. But God has created this planet or many other planets with so many things—mountains, seas and forests and cities and so many. That is the difference between... The creative power is there. Because I am part and parcel of God, I have got that creative power. So I have got also little knowledge. I know my knowledge within my atmosphere, but God knows everything. That is explained, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), abhijñaḥ, itarataś ca. Abhijñaḥ, abhijñaḥ means He knows everything. In the Bhagavad-gītā also it is said, vedāhaṁ sarvam, "I know everything." That is the difference. When Arjuna questioned Kṛṣṇa that "How it is that You remember millions of years ago, You taught Bhagavad-gītā?" And that Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes, that is the difference between you and Me. I remember; you forgot." So therefore in all cases God is also living being, I am also living being, but I am very, very small, finite, and He is infinite. He is also living being. (break)
Hayagrīva: This is a section, a continuation of Pascal, Blaise Pascal. P-A-S-C-A-L. Pascal saw man situated in the universe between two extremes-between the abyss of infinity and the abyss of nothingness. Man has a body like the animals and an intellect like the angels or demigods. As such, he is neither a demigod nor an animal but somewhere between the two. Due to this situation, man is intelligent enough to know that he is in a miserable situation. Nonetheless, he has a great desire to be happy and to rid himself of his misery. Pascal saw that all men complain and suffer regardless of the situation. According to him, man engages in all kinds of hobbies and games and diversions in order to divert himself from his misery. But ultimately nothing really helps. What man once possessed and now has lost is perfect happiness. Pascal believes that the emptiness felt by man can only be filled by God. Isn't..., is this the same as...
Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā.
Hayagrīva: Bhagavad-gītā (laughs).
Prabhupāda: Mūḍhā janmani janmani mām aprāpyaiva (BG 16.20). Because he does not get under the shelter of Kṛṣṇa, so life after life he is trying to be happy and he is becoming baffled. He is manufacturing new way of sporting—sometimes diving in the water, sometimes flying in the air.
Hayagrīva: Spinoza. Spinoza says that "The infinite God must possess infinite attributes." He is saying that God, being the basis of all existence, cannot be described in a material way. He is a pantheist in the sense that he believes in the one substance. However, he believes that God has infinite divine attributes, and only two of these attributes fall within the realm of human experience, and these are thought and extension, or mind and matter.
Prabhupāda: So, so far God is concerned, and undoubtedly He is unlimited and His qualities are unlimited. So His one of the most important quality is called Bhakta-vatsala. He is very much dear to His devotee, Bhakta-vatsala. So He has unlimited devotees and unlimited dealings with them; therefore He is unlimitedly expanded. That is pantheism. But it does not mean because He is unlimitedly expanded, His personality is lost. He is person always, even though He is unlimitedly expanded. That is the Vedic version: pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam eva avaśiṣyate (Iso Invocation). He is complete, and if another complete form expands from Him, still He remains complete. He is not lost. The material conception is if one unit, if something is taken from it, then it becomes less of that thing. But God is so complete that you can go on taking from Him unlimitedly, still He remains unlimited.
Hayagrīva: Spinoza's God is clearly not a personal God. Spinoza is an impersonalist, and his love for God is more intellectual or philosophical than theistic or religious. Being an impersonalist, Spinoza believed in the identity of the individual soul with God. This is not to say that he believed that the individual soul is infinite, but that it is not distinct from God. He writes, "Thus that love of the soul is a part of the infinite love with which God loves Himself." He sees the soul's intellectual love of God and God's love for the individual soul, which is within man, to be one and the same love.
Prabhupāda: Love is five kinds of love: śānta, dāsya, sākhya, vatsalya, mādhurya. The beginning of love is awe and adoration: "Oh, God is so great. God is everything." When he understands God's potency, unlimitedness, the soul adores Him. That adoration is also love. When that adoration is further advanced, then he serves God as master and servant. When the service is more intimate, then friend to friend—as one friend renders service to other friend, the other friend renders to other friend, like that, reciprocal. Then further expanded, the love is turned into paternal love, and further expanded it is expanding into conjugal love. So there are different stages of love. So Spinoza is touching only the beginning of love, simply adoring, appreciating God's power, expansion, that much. But when this love of adoration expands, that is called dasya-rasa, sākhya-rasa, vatsalya-rasa, madhurya-rasa. So he is on the beginning state of loving God. He has not advanced farther.
Hayagrīva: He does not believe that God has a body because by body, he says, we understand a certain quantity possessing life, breadth and depth, limited by some fixed form, and that to attribute these to God, a being absolutely infinite, is the greatest absurdity.
Prabhupāda: No. God has body, but not this material body. The material body is limited. That does not mean... This is imperfect knowledge of the spiritual quality. God has got body. That is confirmed in Vedic literature, sac-cid-ānanda vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Vigraha means body, a form. But His form is eternal. He is all-aware, sat-cit, and He is always blissful. So this body is neither eternal nor blissful nor all-awareness. Therefore this body is different from God's body. But God has got a body which is different in quality. That is spiritual body.
Hayagrīva: He writes, "God is free from passions, nor is He affected with any emotion of joy or sorrow. Properly speaking, God loves no one and hates no one, for God is not affected with any emotion of joy or sorrow, and consequently he neither loves nor hates anyone."
Prabhupāda: Everything is there, but if you take knowledge from God, then that is perfect, and if you make your own ideas—you do not take the ideas of God—that is imperfect.
Hayagrīva: He does say reason is also infinite form, that which sets this material in motion...
Prabhupāda: This is, this is, this is real reasoning, that "I am imperfect or limited. How I can speculate on the unlimited? So better let me learn from the unlimited about the unlimited." That is perfect knowledge.
Hayagrīva: One final point is that he sees the worship of animals and plants to be a form of pantheism. He refers to Indian religion...
Prabhupāda: No. But Indian, that he does not know; still he speaks. That is the most regretful situation.
Hayagrīva: Yes.
Prabhupāda: If God says that "Amongst the plants I am this plant..."
Hayagrīva: Tulasī, Tulasī.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be.
Hayagrīva: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is a definite, not vague, speculative. That is the difference between my translation and others. Therefore I have given the name "As It Is." So we will be no spoke or speculation. As soon as you speculate, you are rejected. Therefore others are seeing some danger that "This Bhaktivedanta's..., this Bhagavad-gītā As It Is accepted, then where we are?"
Hayagrīva: Everybody wants to speculate.
Prabhupāda: That's all. We are, I have stopped it. They cannot speculate on the words of Bhagavad-gītā. That is our mission. Won't allow you to speculate. You are finite, imperfect. How you can by speculation give the unlimited, infinite? How it is possible? That is reasonable. Waste of time, misleading others. Aṇḍhā yathāndair upanīyamānāḥ. You are blind; how you can show others, blind men? They are already blind. You open your eyes, then take the leadership of the blind. Ajñāna-timirāndhasya jñānāñjana-śalākayā. That is our process. That's all right.
Hayagrīva: Huxley did appear to have..., to adhere to the doctrine of transmigration. He says, "The doctrine of transmigration constructs a plausible indication of the ways of the cosmos to man. Every sentient being is reaping as it has sown, if not in this life then in one or other of the infinite series of antecedent existences of which it is the latest turn." In Evolution and Ethics he writes about brahman and ātmān and liberation. He says, "The earlier forms of Indian philosophy agreed with those prevalent in our times, and supposing the existence of a permanent reality or substance beneath the shifting series of phenomena, whether of matter or of mind, the substance of the cosmos was brahman, that of individual man ātmān, and the latter, that is ātmān, was separated from brahman only by its..."
Prabhupāda: That is also not. He is not separated. He is, brahman and ātmān, they are existing, co-existing, and that is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā in the chapter "Kṣetra and Kṣetrajña." The body is the field, and the ātmā, individual soul, is the owner of the field or the worker in the field. So it is also said there is another owner, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ vidhi. As the individual is working in the body, similarly, there is another soul working in the body. So what is the difference between the two? The two is different that the individual soul knows only about his own body, but the other soul, Supersoul, He knows everything of every body. That is the difference.
Hayagrīva: He sees God's... (break) Alexander sees God's Deity as being different from others in that it is infinite... (break) This is the continuation of Alexander that was interrupted due to the defective tape. A God..., uh, Alexander considers God's Deity as differing from that of others in being infinite, and he says, "God's body..."
Prabhupāda: This, this, this sense should be explained. Because God is infinite, He has infinite Deities also. That is infiniteness. He is presented as Deity; that is infinitely of varieties. That is infiniteness. Why he is sticking to one Deity? That is his not understanding the meaning of what is infinite. That is explained in the Brahma-saṁhitā, advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam (Bs. 5.33). Ananta-rūpam: He has Deity infinitely. That is infinity. Because He is infinite, He has no Deity—that is not real conception. He is infinite and He has got infinite Deity forms.
Hayagrīva: He says, "God's body, being the whole universe of space/time, is the source of the categories but not itself subject to them."
Prabhupāda: And now he is coming to that.
Hayagrīva: "...only that He is infinite."
Prabhupāda: He is, He is person, but He is not a person like us. But sometimes, due to our poor fund of knowledge... That is explained, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). "These rascal, because I am here talking with Arjuna just like a human being, they are thinking that I am also a human being." No. He is infinite, Arjuna is finite. That is explained in the Fourth Chapter also, that "Arjuna, you are doubtful how I can remember that I spoke this philosophy to sun-god some millions of years ago." Naturally a finite man cannot remember how one can remember. "That is the difference between you and Me, that I know everything; you forget. So although you are living being eternal, I am also living being eternal, that is the difference between you and Me."
Hayagrīva: He says, "God's body is not spaceless nor timeless, for it is space/time itself."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything emanates from Him, so there is nothing separate from God. God includes everything. That is the conception of God. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Everything has emanated from Him.
| Page Title: | Infinite (Lectures) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 07 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=60, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 60 |