Prabhupāda: The real understanding should be that if in the real person all these features are not present, how they can be reflected in the photograph? The Māyāvādī says, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. Brahman, the Absolute Truth, is real truth, and this world is mithyā. Then mithyā means it is a reflection or shadow. Mithyā does not mean that it has no existence. The shadow is also existence. Therefore Vaiṣṇava philosophers say that mithyā means temporary. Now you have got this body. This is temporary. That's the real understanding. And if I say it is mithyā, then if I kill you, then why I am punished? I can say, "Oh, it is mithyā, it is false. So what is their fault?" No. It is not mithyā. It is temporary. Not mithyā. Mithyā how can it be? Because it is reflection of the reality, therefore it cannot be mithyā. Then the reality becomes mithyā. Mithyā means not fact. The real explanation is that this is shadow. Shadow, but the reality is in the spiritual world, and that is indicated in the Vedānta-sūtra, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The fountainhead of all emanation. That is Absolute Truth.
Indicate (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
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Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: But you do not like that wonderful work.
Guest (1): ...judging duty of what we are doing, this is somebody else and not we ourself.
Prabhupāda: Now... What you... My point is that our society is clearly giving you the indication that we are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Guest (1): Every society has taken...
Prabhupāda: So that's all right. If you like this Kṛṣṇa philosophy, you are welcome. Otherwise you leave.
Guest (1): We have come here...
Prabhupāda: Because first of all see that you are...
Guest (1): If you reject...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Don't talk, all together. First of all you must know what is the truth. If your standard of truth is different and my standard of truth is different, then where is the use of talking nonsense? If you have any other truth than Kṛṣṇa, you be satisfied.
Mohsin Hassan: ...quite, came four weeks ago, and I received the response from you. I think I had a (indistinct) with me, and you indicated that you would like to meet me and give me some hint, a suggestion for my thesis writing. So here I am first to introduce myself to you and hope to learn some more about the objective of the movement. Maybe I could put in the thesis.
Prabhupāda: We require help from personalities like you, because it is very important movement, checking a great mistake in the modern world. Modern civilization is very risky. Risky in this sense: that the human form of life is an opportunity for self-realization, but our leaders, they are miseducating that "You are this body." A basic mistake. But I am not this body, but just like you are sitting there, if I take account of your shirt and coat only, not you as a person, then there is a great mistake. Similarly, the modern civilization, education, everything is based on this bodily concept of life. But actually we are not body. Body is my shirt and coat. Mind, intelligence and ego, that is the shirt, finer dress. And this five element body—earth, water, fire, air, ether—this is gross. Just like shirt and coat. Similarly, we are dressed, the spirit soul.
Śyāmasundara: Saturday, next Saturday night. So that will be a good indication. We'll know after then, if they cooperated, if they'll come. I think there'll be a big crowd.
Dhanañjaya: Actually, you see, it's the younger Indian families also. They're English. They're not Indian. They're more English than Indian. Their children, they don't speak Hindi, and they're playing just like Western children. So they're, when they see us, when we, when devotees go there, to the communities, they're so eager to take the books 'cause they can read them and they can relate with, with Kṛṣṇa consciousness somehow. Because they go every Sunday to their meetings there, and they hear the priest, and it's all boring. It's for the older, for the old. It's sentimental. That's all. So the older people, they're coming, and they're listening to the readings of the Rāmāyaṇa and so many other things. And the young people, they know, "Oh, these, these European people and American people, they must be doing something genuine. Otherwise why are they sacrificing so much?"
Prabhupāda: So how to attract the Indian younger people?
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So this is the process. Says, "Always think of Me." (speaks Hindi to guest for some minutes) This is the translation. Read the purport. Purport.
Devotee: "Purport: In this verse it is clearly indicated that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the only means of being delivered from the clutches of this contaminated material world. Sometimes unscrupulous commentators distort the meaning of what is clearly stated here: that all devotional service should be offered to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. Unfortunately, unscrupulous commentators divert the mind of the reader to that which is not at all feasible. Such commentators do not know that there is no difference between Kṛṣṇa's mind and Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not an ordinary human being. He's Absolute Truth. His body..."
Prabhupāda: Just like Dr. Radhakrishnan. He has explained this verse... When Kṛṣṇa says man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, he comments, "It is not to the person Kṛṣṇa." Just see. Kṛṣṇa says man-manā, "Always think of Me." And he, out of his so-called nonsense scholarship, he says, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa."
Prabhupāda: Translation.
Scholar: "After using this body, from childhood to youth and to old age and afterwards changes into another body. He who is wise, will not be, will not be disturbed."
Prabhupāda: Now, here is the indication that after death we have to accept another body. Is it not?
Scholar: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Now, what kind of body you are going to accept? There are 8,400,000 varieties of bodies. Is it not? Do you know that?
Scholar: No, we don't know that. (indistinct) varieties of bodies.
Prabhupāda: There are forms of body in the water, in the land, so many trees, plants and there are so many insects, reptiles. Then birds, then there are beasts, then there are human being. So there are 8,400,000 forms of body. Here it is indicated that after giving up this body, the soul is going to accept another body. Now the human civilization, is it not duty of the human society to know what kind of body I am going to accept?
Prabhupāda: Oh, I could have gone there. All right. (Sound of washing hands in bowl.) Yes. So I am very glad that you have come and you have taken prasādam. Very nice.
David Wynne: Thank you, sir.
Prabhupāda: And we had very good talks also. I'm very glad.
Śyāmasundara: I'm hoping George will come tomorrow. He has indicated he would come Tuesday.
Prabhupāda: There is basin. You can wash your hands. Wash the dishes.
Śyāmasundara: Even at night the sun is shining still. Or rather, the day is night.
Prabhupāda: Here. There is basin. You can wash.
David Wynne: Yes.
Prabhupāda: I think I am eating more here. (laughter) Is it not?
Trivikrama:. Yes.
Prabhupāda: I could not eat, in India.
Revatīnandana: I think there's a difference in the way the word pollution is being used.
Prabhupāda: Yes, whatever meaning you may do...
Revatīnandana: So, for instance, if it is used to indicate air pollution...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Revatīnandana: ...then how will the chanting will affect that?
Prabhupāda: Yes, it will affect.
Revatīnandana: He's asking how.
Prabhupāda: How? That you do not know. You'll have to realize when you give us the chance. But if you give us the chance, there is no loss on your part. But you'll practically see how it is rectified, how it is...
Vicitravīrya: Pollution is to some extent a result of materialistic activity?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Vicitravīrya: The pollution, is it to some extent the result of material activity, which will cease when the spiritual...
Prabhupāda: Yes, there are so many things. What is material activity, what spiritual activity is. These are to be understood. But we are sure, if simply this chance is given, anywhere, let us execute this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra and speaking something from this Bhagavad-gītā. We are getting practical result. Just like you were describing, that in communist country.
Ambassador: Because there is a... The definition of brāhmaṇa, of course, is made by Buddha's said: (Sanskrit )
Prabhupāda: No, in Bhagavad-gītā it is said: cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). And Bhāgavata says,
- yasya yal lakṣaṇaṁ proktaṁ
- puṁso varṇābhivyañjakam
- yad anyatrāpi dṛśyeta
- tat tenaiva vinirdiśet
- (SB 7.11.35)
These are clear indications that brāhmaṇa is not from particular family. And Kṛṣṇa says, another place,
- māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya
- ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ
- striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās
- te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatiṁ
- (BG 9.32)
Everyone, Kṛṣṇa is open for everyone. Kṛṣṇa does not say that only... He says that kiṁ punar brāhmaṇāḥ puṇyāḥ. Everyone is accepted. Why not the brāhmaṇas? But te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. Those who are not even born in brāhmaṇa family... Caitanya Mahāprabhu also says, kibā vipra kiba śūdra...
Guest (1): That world must be somewhere in existence.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is. That is, that is indicated...
Guest (1): But that...
Prabhupāda: Yad gatvā na nivartante tad... (BG 15.6).
Guest (1): But that, the pressure of that world can come on our world also...
Prabhupāda: No, that world will not.
Guest (1): ...can become our world.
Prabhupāda: That knowledge... Just like we are getting this knowledge. Kṛṣṇa came. Kṛṣṇa is giving us the knowledge. You can get the knowledge and make your life perfect.
Prabhupāda: Therefore the best education, scientific advancement, is to recognize God behind everything. That is perfection. We are canvassing, "Accept God, accept God." But if the modern scientist, philosopher, they present, "Yes, here is God," by calculation, then people will take it more seriously. "Oh, the scientist is saying." That is wanted. We are fighting with the scientists and others because they do not accept God. That is their fault. Otherwise, they are friends. They are giving more stress on the physical laws, nature, but they do not know under whose indication the physical laws are working, the nature is working. That they do not know. Yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakraḥ. It is the... In Vedic literatures it is said, chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā. The nature is working just like shadow, shadow of God. Just like master says, "Go there." Immediately the servant goes there. The servant is not independent. by the indication of the master, goes there. So that is nature. And because the arrangement is so perfect... Just like you said, "Out of season, the flowers came out." So they cannot explain. The arrangement is so perfect that God desired, "Now there, let be these flowers," and nature immediately produces. The arrangement is so perfect that these people, they cannot understand. They become amazed, "How it happened?"
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: ...less dangerous than the active foolish. (devotees chant japa) (break)
Prajāpati: In the Bhagavad-gītā it is indicated by Śrī Kṛṣṇa that when we approach a bona fide spiritual master our relationship is twofold. We render service and then we also make inquiry.
Prabhupāda: Yeah.
Prajāpati: Now, you have answered all our inquiries so thoroughly in our books that to make inquiry at this point seems like..., you've already answered all the questions. So how may we... What is the proper relationship at that point to make inquiry?
Devotee (4): Read the books.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Read the books, yes. Why I'm working so hard? Read the books. (break) ...don't find him in the class also.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Madhudviṣa: Wouldn't that indicate that a preacher is higher than a worker?
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is preaching, this is preaching. You help. Suppose you are preaching, and if I help you... Just like I'm preaching, you're helping. You are also preaching.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Also this building is preaching.
Prabhupāda: This is also preaching. So it is not that preaching means simply talking. Preaching means everything. The construction is also preaching. The designing is also preaching. Everything is... Otherwise what is the use of spending so much money if it is not preaching?
Devotee: Jaya.
Haṁsadūta: Yeah. (break) Everything that has to do with propagating Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Harikeśa: ...which I've always been afraid to ask, because I don't know if it's proper, but you being the external manifestation of Supersoul, if we are having questions, doubts, when, in your absence, if we are receiving indications, is there any possible way that someone who is so conditioned can have any understanding of proper action in your absence? In other words, if I am in your absence and I am in great doubt, and I am praying to Supersoul to please save me somehow, if I receive some action which I must do or some course of action becomes obvious, should I trust that, considering that you're communicating with me, or...?
Prabhupāda: That depends on purity. If one has become pure, without any material desire, then that is possible. But if there is some material desire, we cannot expect direct communication.
Harikeśa: So I have much material desire.
Prabhupāda: I do not say you or he. This is the process. This is the process.
Prabhupāda: Ah, because unless we are completely purified, Kṛṣṇa will, does not talk directly. Therefore you have to understand Kṛṣṇa through the spiritual master.
Harikeśa: So when we are having doubts, the only possible way, no matter what the indications are, are simply follow your instructions in all circumstances.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Harikeśa: Right. (break)
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa wanted instruction of guru, not directly.
Harikeśa: Kṛṣṇa's...
Prabhupāda: That, that I was explaining in the morning.
Prabhupāda: Therefore rascals!
Dr. Patel: Though their knowledge is ignorance, it is that, Brahman knowledge is right.
Prabhupāda: So therefore you have to... Therefore the indication is tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā... (BG 4.34). You should go and take knowledge.
Dr. Patel: But I talk of the Einstein. Einstein, somebody asked Einstein...
Prabhupāda: Anyone...
Dr. Patel: "Do you believe in God?" He said, "How can you not believe in God? God is everywhere, and I feel the presence of it." That is the real scientist.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: The body is just like a machine, and the spirit soul is sitting on this machine, and God is there within the heart. So He is giving the direction. "You wanted to do this. Now you go and do this." This is the... So if you are sincere, "Now, God, I want You," then He will give you directions, "You go and get it." This is the process. But if we want something else than God, then God will give you direction, "You go and take it." He's very kind. Īśvaraḥ sarva... I want to have something and He is within my heart, and He is giving me, "Yes, you come here. You take this." So if that God can give direction to give you indication, "You go and take this," why not the spiritual master? First of all we must know, we must be eager to again revive our God consciousness. Then God will give us the spiritual master.
Prabhupāda: That means they have not gone thoroughly. One portion of it.
Karandhara: Well, they have scanners on these satellites which pick up vegetation or life. From hundreds miles away, it will show up on a screen. And they sent it all around the moon, and it hasn't shown any indication of any organic matter or life. They can send this satellite up around the earth planet and they can locate fields of corn, fields of wheat, from hundreds of miles away, just by the way it shows up on these different electronic devices. (break)
Prabhupāda: Take one of these... (break)
Yogeśvara: The vegetables, made of different elements. (break) ...and they say they found indications of elements that were existing at the time of creation that went into the making of the living entities... (end)
Yogeśvara: You see, it's a question of perspective. In a suffering position you may say that some slight remedy is good, but you've not alleviated the suffering, the suffering is still going on. I remember one time Śrīla Prabhupāda, you gave this example, it was very wonderful. You were saying the United States, they're very proud, "We have so many hospitals with very nice equipment, very, very modern hospitals." But factually that's not advancement, that's suffering. It's an indication that there is suffering going on. So depending on your perspective...
Prabhupāda: Now they're saying we have increased so many beds, that means suffering has increased. They are thinking that they have done so good in this so many hospitals, and so many beds have been increased but that means suffering has increased. Otherwise why is the necessity of the beds and the hospitals?
Robert Gouiran: Yes. It's not because some American hospital are not healer that healing does not exist.
Prabhupāda: No, no, they're trying, everyone is trying to heal, American or Englishman or European, it doesn't matter. Everyone is trying but there is no healing. That is our point.
Yogeśvara: He says "We say, 'They should be,' " which indicates that perhaps now we do not have that situation. Prabhupāda: No. Practically none. That is the defect of the modern society, that there is no brain. Therefore the whole world is in chaotic condition. In your country also, it is famous for so many revolutions. And whole Europe is..., Russia and other countries, because there is no brain. So there is need of these qualified first-class men, to lead the human society. Then next class... The head is first class, and next class: arms, protector, administrator. Their qualification is stated... Yogeśvara: Nitāi? Prabhupāda: Teja... What is that?
Prabhupāda: Religious problem. Any problem.
Bhagavān: No problem. So what does that indicate? And you have all problems. (French)
Prabhupāda: Now, this question... Listen. Our Bhagavān says that he has no problem. We have no problem. And you have got all problems. So who is better? Who is better?
Bhagavān: And anyone who joins us loses all his problems. (French)
Yogeśvara: He says then that's very serious because if you have no problems, that means you are trying to escape from the world because the world is full of problems.
Prabhupāda: We are in the Paris City. How we have escaped from the world? (laughter) We have got branches in London, in Paris in New York and big, big cities, and all these boys are coming from big, big cities. How they have escaped? It is not justice. If he says that "They have escaped," that is wrong statement. We are not escaping anything.
Nitāi: "Because material energy, nature, is so powerful, it can resist the unauthorized plans of the atheists and baffle the knowledge of the planning commissions. The atheistic planmakers are described herein by the word duṣkṛtina, or miscreant. Kṛtina means one who has performed meritorious work. The atheistic planmaker is sometimes very intelligent and meritorious also because any gigantic plan, good or bad, must take intelligence to execute. But because the atheist brain is improperly utilized in opposing the plan of the Supreme Lord, the atheistic planmaker is called duṣkṛtina, which indicates that his intelligence and efforts are misdirected. In the Gītā it is clearly mentioned that material energy works fully under the direction..."
Prabhupāda: Just like in Paris, these nice buildings, nice parks, nice everything—they require brain. There is no doubt about it. But they have been used for woman and wine. That's all. That is their... He have come. People come to see Paris just for that... What is that theater?
Bhagavān: Folies Bergere.
Dr. Harrap: Can you give us an indication where the centers are, where some of them are?
Madhudviṣa: The centers are all over the world. We have centers in America and centers...
Prabhupāda: We have got forty centers in America.
Dr. Harrap: Forty.
Prabhupāda: Forty, four zero, yes.
Dr. Harrap: Your knowledge of Sanskrit, this is one of your basic interests.
Prabhupāda: No, not Sanskrit, but knowledge we have received by disciplic succession from my Guru Mahārāja, from my spiritual master. Sanskrit is the language but mostly we derive knowledge from Vedic revealed scriptures. And this is also one of them, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. This is the ripened fruit of Vedic knowledge.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: I say...
Guest: But the name is just an indication, the name is something we call it, it is for us to have a word.
Prabhupāda: But that I ask you, that what is that name? As I have... We have got the nicest name, Kṛṣṇa. Now you suggest that this is the nicest name in Mohammedan, Kṛṣṇa. You say me that.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Allah.
Prabhupāda: You say, "What is that name?"
Guest: First of all, this man is talking (indistinct) any difference to call it Allah.
Prabhupāda: No, no, I don't make any difference but I want to know, I want to know what is that nicest name. I don't make any difference.
Prabhupāda: ...indicates God, then it is not bad. That is our point. If we indicates to God... Just like Allah. If this name indicates to God, then it is this Allah word as good as God. There is no difference. Nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija sarva śakti. The Allah, the conception of Allah means The Great, is it not? So God is Great. So by chanting Allah, I am meaning God, the Supreme Person, so it is as good. And actually in Mosque, they chant Allah-u-akbar, like that, so far I've heard. So that prayer, if it is not God's name, then what is the use of this prayer? That is God's name. Similarly, the Hindus may chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, they're indicating to the same personality. It may be different language; therefore, it is as good as God because God is absolute. But this, this name is authorize because Muhammad said that you chant, "Allah." So it is authorized, because he is God's representative. Therefore my request is, or our request is that you chant the name of Allah. We don't say that you chant Kṛṣṇa. You chant the Holy name of God. If Allah is approved name of God, you chant it.
Prabhupāda: But if you..., then you are also moving. Everything is moving because you are on the earth. When the train moves, everything moves. But how it moves, train? That you have to search out. Train is not automatically moving. Some power, engine, is moving it. That is blind vision, that "Train is moving." How the train is moving? You have to see. That is childish. Train is not moving. The engine is moving the train. And how the engine is moving? The coal, fire, is moving. Then wherefrom the coal come? In this way, you have to search out. You'll find, ultimately, the supreme cause is Kṛṣṇa. Nothing is moving without Kṛṣṇa's indication. That is the explanation,
Mayādhyakṣeṇa: (BG 9.10) "Under My superintendence..." When Kṛṣṇa desires, this big, big chunk will move in the air. Recently, Madhudviṣa Mahārāja said, the buses were flying in the sky.
Brahmānanda: Buses?
Prabhupāda: Yes. In Darwin.
Madhudviṣa: Also in the lecture last night, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you were saying that after the water subsides, then the trees come out, and then the insects, then the birds. That would indicate that the creation takes place in stages?
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Madhudviṣa: It would indicate that the creation of this universe takes place in stages, over quite a long period of time, and this is what the scientists also claim. Darwin's theory is similar to that, that first there was water, then vegetation came up, and then gradually, gradually, each and every species evolved, like that. So is there some correlation between those?
Prabhupāda: But the varieties of creation, not that everything is coming like that. Just like Brahmā was first created, the first intelligent man. So although there was water, he was above water. He was on the lotus flower, which is not in the water. So that is also creation. So suppose this part is not covered by water—you see grass. But where there is lake there is no grass. So both things are there. Somewhere where there is water, unless the water is dried up, there is no grass. But somewhere you will find, immediately, grass. But there is no water. Or above water. So far the material elements are concerned, that is this stage. But the material elementary presentation, in different places, different way.
Interviewer: Coming back to this question of the western type of civilization, do you feel that the success of the movement in the western society is an indication of the need being felt by the western man that has been lacking in spiritual ideologies?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. But the thing is that they are very intelligent. There is no doubt about it. Materially, they are always advanced. Materially, when they are manufacturing machine of the airship, in India we are manufacturing sewing machine or cycle. I have seen in the World Fair the Indians were very proud of manufacturing cycle and sewing machine, whereas the Americans and Europeans, they were showing the how subtle machine of this jet plane are there. So materially, they are advanced. There is no doubt about it. Hundred years. But spiritually they are not. Therefore, I am an Indian, poor Indian—they are coming to me. Because they understand that spiritually... Not only me, any swami who go, they crowd to him, "If there is something spiritual?" Unfortunately, the other swamis, they go to exploit them, to cheat them. They do not... Neither they do know what is spiritual life; neither they could give them. For example, for the last two..., hundred years or more than that the swamis are going; not a single person was a Kṛṣṇa devotee in the history in the western countries.
Dharmādhyakṣa: ...we go to colleges, the young people that are working on Ph.D.'s, they are very... (laughs) They say, "We're doing all this research but you can't prove a thing." I ask them, "Well, this experiment, you know, what will it prove?" He says, "Well, it indicates this, it indicates that, but really doesn't prove anything."
Prabhupāda: (laughs) It proves only that he's a fool. That is the only...
Dharmādhyakṣa: I talked to a very nice Indian gentleman. He's a life member. He's a young Ph.D. in chemistry, Dr. Bhatt. He dedicated his Ph.D. thesis to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Dharmādhyakṣa: Yes. And he quoted īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). And I asked him, "What is the practical result of your research?" He said, "Maybe in twenty years they'll find some way to use the research that I am working on."
Prabhupāda: So he has dedicated to Kṛṣṇa, very good. (break) ...also dedicated, our Dr. S..., yes, to Kṛṣṇa.
Bahulāśva: You'll not find statements like that in the Bible, that "There is no one superior to Me." You don't find those things in the Bible.
Prabhupāda: No.
Bahulāśva: A little indication that there's God, but no real philosophy. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...manufacturing so many things, United Nations, World Health Organization, and this philanthropism, but the real thing is wanting that the human life is meant for understanding God, there is no such organization. This is the only organization, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. (break) ...neglectful I do not know. (break)
Devotee: I'm very happy in my new engagement. I'm finding very much success now. We have made four devotees since I have left, three days.
Prabhupāda: Oh, very good. (break) ...the definition of God according to the theologicians?
Prabhupāda: No.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now she has clearly indicated that she is like a dictator. Otherwise how could she arrest...
Prabhupāda: So both of them are in distressed condition. I am thinking of writing them about Bhagavad-gītā. Do you think it is advised? They can...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think Nixon would be more inclined to read it than Mrs. Gandhi. Because she already has rejected Hindu culture.
Prabhupāda: Who?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gandhi. I mean, she always turns towards the Muslims more.
Prabhupāda: No, no, she has guru. And she is going occasionally to Anandamayi.
Sudāmā: And they even indicate, Prabhupāda, on the advertisements that smoking is hazardous for the health.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...for money, the money which will push them to hell. This is their intelligence. We have to give them intelligence, open their eyes. (break) ...angry first of all because mūrkhāyo 'padeśo hi prakopāya na śāntaye: "If you give good intelligence to the fools and rascals, they will be angry." But still, you have to do it. Just like when Nityānanda Prabhu went to Jagāi-Mādhāi to deliver them, they became angry and injured. So that is preacher. These rascals will be angry, will sometimes do harm to you, and still, you have to do it. That is preaching. Are you understanding what is preaching? Yes. You have to prepare like that. At all risk you have to preach. (break) ...world is full of rascals, and you have to educate them. So according to one's capacity let them preach, prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā. But everyone can preach to some extent. There is no hindrance.
Ladies and gentlemen, regarding Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement... (about microphone:) It is working? We are talking about the spiritual existence of the living being. By evolutionary process we come to the human form of life, and here we have got developed consciousness. We can decide now which way to go forward. There are different planetary system. That we can experience. We can see innumerable planets, upwards and downwards. So the upper planetary system is called Svargaloka, or the heavenly planets, and the middle planetary system is called Martyaloka or Bhurloka, in which we are staying at the present moment, and the down planetary system is called Pātālaloka or downwards. Downwards means fall down, upwards means getting promotion, and middle means we remain where we are now. That is... Indication is given in the Bhagavad-gītā, ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā: (BG 14.18) "Those who are cultivating the modes of goodness, they are promoted to the higher planetary system." And madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ. "Those who are passionate or under the modes of passion, they remain in the middle planetary system."
Prabhupāda: The word is used, nitya-yukta. Nitya-yukta means perpetually. If a devotee is to merge into the existence of the Lord then why this word is used, nitya-yukta. Upāsana. Not only nitya-yukta, upāsana. Upāsana means "you worship Me." As soon as the word is "he worships" that means the worshipable and the mode of worship and the worshiper must be there. That is indicated, nitya-yukta, perpetual. But the Māyāvādīs or these impersonalists, they think that it is temporary. I am devotee temporarily. As soon as I become perfect I become one.
Prabhupāda: Oh. About?
Bahulāśva: He said that from his scientific studies he is feeling frustrated. So he made a public statement that he is going to give them up for studying God. He says that he feels that everything indicates in the universe that there must be a supreme intelligence behind the workings of the universe.
Prabhupāda: Very intelligent man. He is intelligent. As soon as one denies the existence of God, immediately he comes within the category of four classes of men: sinful, rascal, lowest of the mankind and knowledge taken away by māyā.
Bahulāśva: The four classes that never surrender unto Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Or do not admit the existence of God.
Prabhupāda: So what can I do? (laughter) If the rascal says something, so what can I do?
Brahmānanda: Even when they write the word "God," they don't say, "g, o, d." They say "g, dash," then "d," so that they've indicated God, but they haven't said "God."
Vāsughoṣa: "It's too holy to pronounce," that's what they...
Prabhupāda: No, they can say, "G, zero, and d." (laughter) Zero between g and d. That is a nice explanation.
Devotee (4): Zero signifies their love for Him.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Zero is controlling both sides, g and d. Just like if you multiply something by zero, what it becomes?
Brahmānanda: Zero.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Śūnyavādī.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prof. Olivier: And especially the youth at university, as I have always indicated and I tell them every year that they’ve got to experiment with the spirit to the same extent that they experiment in their laboratories with pieces of animal tissues or grass or what it is that they’ve got to analyze. But the real tragedy is that we have wandered away so far from the spirit and from the spiritual laboratory...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prof. Olivier: ...that we don’t know where to start. I was telling them the other day that when the Americans sent their first man to the moon, they had a laboratory of about four thousand men at the controls. The one was doing this and the other one was doing that, but this was a huge human laboratory. That is only while they experiment, and then by that... (break)
Prabhupāda: He is my student. He practices like him.
Prabhupāda: He is American. (indicates Harikeśa)
Harikeśa: Yes, but nobody listens to the radio.
Dr. Patel: He says that at least government does it. Here government is giving all the cinema. And there the churches are overflowing.
Prabhupāda: In London I have seen almost all the churches are vacant.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Therefore we say "perfect." Śruti-pramāṇam.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even to the point of knowing about a certain amount of rain coming at the end of a particular season and how that indicates about the administration.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, everything. Daṇḍa-rājā puṇya-deśa.
Jayapatākā: (Bengali)
Prabhupāda: (break) "...whether you have got such buildings, whether you have got such books, whether you have got such disciples, whether you have traveled so..."? Then what they will, will be reply? Hm?
Jayapatākā: But they've got the āśīrbād.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Oh. They say that due to their āśīrbād?
Jayapatākā: No, he is saying that he is the counterpart, that he's got the āśīrbād.
Prabhupāda: No, āśīrbād, but what you have done for the āśīrbād. You are licking up the āśīrbād.
Child: Jaya Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Children will be born.... If you are.... If the child is sinful, then it will go to the womb of a mother who will kill him. That's all. By the will. By the.... That he should be punished. One who has used contraceptive and abortion method, by the will of God he will enter another mother, and the mother will kill him.
Cyavana: But the Bible, it indicates...
Prabhupāda: Now, now, you see, try, understand. You are very good Bible quoter, but try to understand each and everything. Simply you go on quoting, but understand what is that quotation. It is by the will of God. You have committed sinful life by contraceptive method. Now you enter in the womb of another mother and be killed. That is Bible.
Cyavana: So what is described there was not actually God consciousness or...
Prabhupāda: No, it is God consciousness if you understand it, that "I am now being punished by the will of God. I have done sinful activities." That is God conscious.
Reporter (1): No, sir, I just wanted to ask you...
Prabhupāda: No, no, why wonder? You just try to understand this common sense, that as soon as you go to the street, if the indication is that you must keep your car on the left side and as soon as you go to the right side, you become a criminal immediately. You can say, "What is the wrong? The right side or wrong side, I am driving my car," but it is criminal. You know or not know. Ignorance of law is no excuse. So just similarly there is law of God. So as soon as you violate, you must suffer. You see?
Reporter (1): What is that law court?
Prabhupāda: That means you are so ignorant. You are so ignorant. The law of God, law is.... God is personally speaking, "This is the law." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). This is the law. God is speaking personally, and you do not know? And you are advertising very expert in reading Bhagavad-gītā, and you do not know the law? This is going on. Big, big scholars, big, big monkey, they are reading Bhagavad-gītā three hundred times daily, but do not know what is law. This is going on.
Prabhupāda: We have got very good response for accepting our books all over the world, Kṛṣṇa books.
Mr. Dixon: The reason that I was most interested to come is that my responsibilities in Victoria are a lot to do with the growth of our young people, and I think that many of the things that we don't succeed in doing, the problems that we have with drugs and alcohol and all sorts of unhappiness, that what your life indicates has got something that I think we could do well to take parts of it, to be involved in the things, the way in which we live. And I'd be interested to hear from you as to what you would believe might be done to encourage a greater acceptance of your areas of philosophy and religion.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Our philosophy is to purify, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Our philosophy is to purify the core of the heart from all dirty things. This is basic principle of our philosophy, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, cleansing the core of the heart. So just this morning several boys and girls became initiated. So our first promise is, before the Deity, before the fire, before the Vaiṣṇavas, before the spiritual master, that from this day no more illicit sex, no more intoxication, no more meat-eating, no more gambling. This is the first initiation. Then chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra.
Prabhupāda: That is the difficulty. Everyone sees that "Some way or other, I become guru. Then so many persons will offer me respect. Somehow or other, create some situation. Then I become guru." This is going on. Not bona fide guru. Bona fide guru is indicated by Caitanya, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā: "Become guru." Why ambition? Actually become guru. But how to become guru? Yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa-upadeśa' (CC Madhya 7.128). That's it, otherwise goru. So they will not take this simple method. They will drink, they will hunt after woman and have some attractive singing or dancing and become guru. What is meaning of guru, they do not know. Somehow or other become popular and become guru. This is going on. So with māyā you can attract these foolish rascals very easily. If you can manufacture.... You cannot, but if you can show some jugglery, then you become guru. People are after all these things, material things. They are not after Kṛṣṇa. They are after money and women. So if you give some mantra, then gold will be manufactured, and all women will be attracted, very first class.
Prabhupāda: Thank you. So here in the material world happiness means sense gratification, that's all. So Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "The happiness of sense gratification, obtainable in any form of life..." The birds, beasts, human beings or even the demigods, cats, dogs—everyone has got the happiness of sense gratification, namely eating, sleeping, sex and defense. That is obtainable everywhere. But the spiritual happiness, that is obtainable in human form of life. Therefore the human being from childhood... Kaumāra ācaret prajño dharmān bhāgavatān iha (SB 7.6.1). From the very beginning of childhood. Why so early? Durlābhaṁ manusam janma. This human form of life is obtained after many, many births' evolutionary process. And adhruvam. There is no certainty that I shall live so many years. Although it is estimated that one is expected to live for at least hundred years—that is estimation—but at the present moment at least, nobody is living up to that. So even there is such indication, still, there is no guarantee.
Prabhupāda: You call it any love, the real idea is how to unite man and woman, that's all. That is the idea. Real, basic principle is how to unite a man and woman. It goes on as friend or husband and wife or this or that. The real purpose is they want to unite. And that unity is for sex. And then both of them become entangled. Gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittair janasya moho 'yam (SB 5.5.8). This is moha, illusion. What is that explanation?
Hṛdayānanda: Purport: "How money can be dearer than life is indicated in this verse. Thieves may enter the house of a rich man to steal money at the risk of their lives. Because of trespassing they may be killed by guns or attacked by watchdogs, but still they try to commit burglary. Why do they risk their lives? Only to get some money. Similarly, a professional soldier is recruited into the army, and he accepts such service, with the risk of dying on the battlefield, only for the sake of money. In the same way, merchants go from one country to another on boats at the risk of their lives, or they dive into the water...
Prabhupāda: In 1942 I have seen when war was going on, so, these Britishers wanted soldiers, so they created artificial famine. The people became in need of money, so they enrolled them as soldiers. I have seen it. There was no other way to get money to get commodities at higher price. Artificial famine. There was no food grains available, but black market it is available. Black market means more price, but they had no money. So to get this money, they enrolled as soldiers. This was Mr. Churchill's policy.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (reading) "...who has made it his life's work to debunk the so-called material powers of god-men the world over, and said that he is afraid for his life. Amongst those he has challenged is Satya Sai Baba, a mystic who has thousands of followers in South Africa. The man who is said to expose fraudulent practices amongst miracle workers is Dr. Abraham T. Kavoor, who recently held a spell-binding magic show at the Bangalore Town Hall to debunk the miracles of god-men. He claimed that several of the tricks demonstrated had, in fact, been learned from persons who had duped the public that they could perform miracles and other extraordinary acts. And this, he believed, would lead to an attempt on his life. 'I am not afraid of gods. They don't exist. But I am afraid of god-men, because they are alive. They have thugs as agents. If a good man like Gandhi could be assassinated, what keeps a Kavoor from suffering the same fate?' Addressing a press conference, Dr. Kavoor implied that an attempt might be made on his life if he tried to expose the fraudulent practice by god-men because this would involve a physical search of the persons involved. Hence his insistence that his investigation would have to be preceded by their permission. (The permission of these so-called mystics, registered letters.) To date, he said, he had written six registered letters to Satya Sai Baba issuing his famous challenge, but had no reply from him as yet. Asked how he produced ash and other objects out of nowhere, Dr. Kavoor indicated that one of the methods was by concealing the objects to be materialized inside of his coat. The rest was pure sleight of hand. Photographs of him (Sai Baba) exposing his coat have been published both in the national and international press, he said. Reporting that haṭha-yogī L.S. Lal had confessed to him that his much-vaunted show of walking on water had been pure trick designed to make some money, Dr. Kavoor said, 'How long can the government of India tolerate such hoaxers who claim to have supernatural powers and exploit the ordinary men?' "
Prabhupāda: You keep this. We shall have to show to the Indian government authorities.
Prabhupāda: I shall request that.... There is no question of Eastern, Western. Now people are intermingling. Now I think that we shall have institution, especially in America, to train these first class, second class, third class, and the balance fourth class. Who cannot take up any training, they are fourth class. So how they should be trained up, that indication is there. It is not the question of Eastern and Western. You become peaceful...
Scheverman: Now, how would you proceed in this training program? I'd be interested in that.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is.... If I say that "Live peacefully," this instruction is neither exclusively for America or Indian. It is for everyone.
Scheverman: That's universal, peaceful, that's universal.
Prabhupāda: Universal. What is another quality? Peaceful, and then?
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Self-control.
Prabhupāda: Self-control. This is also not either for American or.... "The Americans should not be self-controlled, only Indians should be self-controlled." (laughter) This is not the proposal. Self-control.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The same verse again in the Second Chapter."The compilers of the Upaniṣads speak very highly of the impersonal Brahman. The Upaniṣads, which are considered the most elevated portion of the Vedic literatures, are meant for persons who desire to get free from material association and who therefore approach a bona fide spiritual master for enlightenment. The prefix upa indicates that one must receive knowledge about the Absolute Truth from a spiritual master. One who has faith in his spiritual master actually receives transcendental instruction, and as his attachment for material life slackens, he is able to advance on the spiritual path. Knowledge of the transcendental science of the Upaniṣads..."
Prabhupāda: Where is that boy? You are hearing?
Devotee (2): Yes, Prabhupāda.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "As stated in the last chapter, after suffering different kinds of hellish conditions, a man comes again to the human form of body. The same topic is continued in this chapter. In order to give a particular type of human form to a person who has already suffered hellish life, the soul is transferred to the semina of a man who is just suitable to become his father. During sexual intercourse, the soul is transferred through the semina of the father into the mother's womb in order to produce a particular type of body. This process is applicable to all embodied living entities, but it is especially mentioned for the man who has transferred to the Andha-tāmisra hell. After suffering there, when he who has had many types of hellish bodies, like those of dogs and hogs, is to come again to the human form, he is given the chance to take his birth in the same type of body from which he degraded himself to hell. Everything is done by the supervision of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Material nature supplies the body, but it does so under the direction of the Supersoul. It is said in Bhagavad-gītā that a living entity is wandering in this material world on a chariot made by material nature. The Supreme Lord, as Supersoul, is always present with the individual soul. He directs material nature to supply a particular type of body to the individual soul according to the result of his work, and the material nature supplies it. Here one word, retaḥ-kaṇāśrayaḥ, is very significant because it indicates that it is not the semina of the man that creates life within the womb of a woman; rather, the living entity, the soul, takes shelter in a particle of semina and is then pushed into the womb of a woman. Then the body develops. There is no possibility of creating a living entity without the presence of the soul, simply by sexual intercourse."
Prabhupāda: This is outside. This is not the combination of the solution. The soul is coming from outside. The same theory. It is not the solution which is creating life.
Prabhupāda: The same thing.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "On the tenth night it develops into a form like a plum, and after that, gradually it turns into a lump of flesh or an egg, as the case may be." Purport. "The body of the soul develops in four different ways according to its different sources. One kind of body, that of the trees and plants, sprouts from the earth; the second kind of body grows from perspiration, as with flies, germs and bugs; the third kind of body develops from eggs; and the fourth develops from an embryo. This verse indicates that after emulsification of the ovum and semina, the body gradually develops either into a lump of flesh or into an egg, as the case may be. In the case of birds it develops into an egg, and in the case of animals and human beings it develops into a lump of flesh."
Prabhupāda: Then? Next verse.
Sadāpūta: We are also thinking that this inspiration illustrated the modes of nature and the law of karma to some extent, because like the mathematician had to struggle very painfully for a very long time without getting his result, and then he got it, so that seemed more like the mode of passion and like that. But Mozart apparently just got these things without having to struggle for them, as though that was his past karma or something. Next slide. This is a summary of the basic kind of argument we wanted to make. The picture on the left, those ovals represent states of matter, configurations of matter, and they go from simple, toward the bottom, like just a chemical solution, up towards more complex as you go up, like living bodies of different kinds. The theory of evolution is sort of indicated in the left-hand one. According to that theory, you have very simple natural laws, and you start out with simple physical states, but somehow these natural laws produce a progressive increase in order, as indicated by those arrows going up. But actually we want to argue that simple natural laws don't have the power to do that, and that the situation on the right is what would happen if you just had simple natural laws, namely they would keep shoving things around on a simple level but never produce anything complex. The next slide, though, indicates that if you had natural laws with a high order of complexity, then they could manifest physical situations with a high order of complexity also, depending on how much was built into the laws. So we wanted to, in these two examples, indicate a higher and higher order of natural laws. So what we wanted to do was then combine these two things together, on the one hand that consciousness is not a physical phenomenon, and on the other hand, that in order to get...
Prabhupāda: This is physical, but subtle.
Prabhupāda: Hm, very nice pictures. Mr. Boyd: The two that were taken in Philadelphia, they are not what I call quality work, but are the best I could do and run. You didn't sit still too long. Prabhupāda: This child is your daughter's son?
Mr. Boyd: The Gītā without the Rāma, that's all the statement was, that kind of an indication.
Prabhupāda: Gītā without Rāma?
Dr. Sharma: Perhaps they said Gītā without Rāmāyaṇa. (indistinct) said:
- yadā yadā hi dharmasya
- glānir bhavati bhārata
- abhyutthānam adharmasya
- tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham
- (BG 4.7)
Which also, Hare Rāma, Hare Kṛṣṇa, includes Rāma.
Prabhupāda: Yes, there is no difference between Kṛṣṇa and Rāma.
Dr. Sharma: We do chant Rāma and Kṛṣṇa both.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa has said in the Gītā, "I am Rāma." "I am Rāma."
Mr. Boyd: I don't think it makes any difference who made the statement, it was just a comment that somebody wanted the Gītā without Rāma, which indicated to me that they didn't want the whole picture, they didn't want the total fact. But otherwise I couldn't put the two together, because Barbara must have taken the Bhagavad-gītā back to Germany with her.
Dr. Sharma: Actually here is a one-to-one translation. (Sanskrit)
Prabhupāda: The Tulasī dāsa's Rāmāyaṇa means Rāma-carita. It is not Rāmāyaṇa. Rāma-carita Manas. He was devotee of Lord Rāmacandra. So as he was thinking of Lord Rāmacandra, he has written. So he was a learned scholar, brāhmaṇa, he must have read Bhagavad-gītā, Bhāgavatam. So all his translation is there on the basis of the śāstra, especially Bhāgavata and Bhagavad-gītā. You'll find many parallel passages. But Gītā is the summary of all Vedic literature, and it is spoken by the Personality of Godhead. So if we fix up our attention on the Bhagavad-gītā, then you can get advantage of all other śāstras.
Prabhupāda: Yes, everything will be achieved. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet (SB 12.3.51). Simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, one becomes liberated from all sinful reaction of life, and he goes back to home, back to Godhead. Mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet. That is the recommendation.
Dr. Sharma: Can I ask one more question, Swamiji? In chanting, they also say later on, gaṅgāmāyī ki jaya, yamunāmāyī ki jaya. We also have in Rāmāyaṇa jato jaya sankara sata nama haya(?) (indistinct). Śaṅkara's kīrtana in saṅkīrtana. Some people, just like he was indicating, some people are more inclined to worship Rāma, saying Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma instead of Hare Rāma, Hare Kṛṣṇa, both.
Prabhupāda: There is no difference.
Dr. Sharma: There is no difference.
Prabhupāda: Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat (Bs. 5.39). Rāma is avatāra and Kṛṣṇa is svayaṁ Bhagavān. There is no difference.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They want to prove "There is no God. Everything is science." However rascaldom it may be, "It is everything." But we are preaching about God. How we can tolerate? We must expose them. That is our business.
Mr. Boyd: There's a saying that's printed on a piece of stationery I get from one of my supply houses of a particular piece of equipment this man designs and sells. And on the bottom he indicates, "Somebody has to lead."
Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is a commonsense philosophy, that the earth is there, everything is coming out of earth. As mother is giving birth to so many children, similarly the earth is giving birth to so many children. So the children are there, the mother is there, and where is the father? But these rascals, they say "Without father." Is it possible for the mother to give children without father?
Mr. Boyd: Not legally. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Legally or illegally, there must be some father.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I am in the Western country for the last ten years, sometimes Europe, sometimes America. I have got more than one hundred temples all over the world, so I go and visit and instruct my disciples about this movement.
Janice Johnson: But you indicated in..., before you came here, that you were interested in meeting some leaders in the city. Have you met any of them?
Prabhupāda: Leaders?
Hari-śauri: She's wondering whether you met with any political leaders.
Prabhupāda: No. I have no interest with the political leaders because it is not a political movement. It is spiritual movement.
Sadāpūta: There was one thing I was wondering a little bit. Is the possibility of..., is it possible of making some experiments which would tend to indicate that life is not material? And this might be appealing to some of the people with scientific education, because they are used to such things, experiments.
Prabhupāda: No, experiment is there. Just like in... Hindus, we burn the body into ashes. How the soul is transmigrating? This is scientific experiment. The Bhagavad-gītā says nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ. Everyone is seeing the body is burned into ashes, but still, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). He's going to another body. How it is going? So the soul is not burned.
Rūpānuga: We were having a meeting with the other scientists, and they were challenging you. They were saying, "Show us one experiment. Show us one experiment!" That's the way they are.
Prabhupāda: There are so many experiments.
Sadāpūta: We were wondering... We knew that, for example, Jagadisha Chandra Bose did some experiments indicating plants having consciousness. We were wondering if some things of that kind might be of some use.
Prabhupāda: So in the Calcutta there is Bose Institute, you can go and see. They have got all machine, how the plants are feeling. Everything is there.
Rūpānuga: That's important because they are saying these animals have no soul. They are saying lower form of life, they have no soul, so killing them is not important. So his work was important. It showed...
Prabhupāda: No, killing or not killing, that is another point. You can kill your own son. They are killing, actually. That is another point. But they have got soul. All the symptoms are there; how you can say there is no soul? Where is the difference between man's behavior and animal's behavior? So far eating, sleeping, sex, defense is concerned, the same thing. How do you say that it is different from the human being? Why they differentiate the animal from the man? What is the main point?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda explained that the picture they took of Mars, they now say that there's..., they pointed out that there's a similar canyon, the Grand Canyon, in Arizona. So they were reporting like this, and Prabhupāda said this is an indication that actually it is a picture of, they have unintentionally they have let out the information that actually the photo is simply a photograph of the Grand Canyon.
Hari-śauri: He gave an example. There's a man in his room at night, and he hears a noise. So he says "Oh, what's that sound?" And then back comes the reply, "I am not stealing." So no one asked the man to say what he was doing, but he unintentionally let it out what he was actually doing there. He just asked what the noise was, but he said "I am not stealing." So in the same way no one asked them to say anything about Arizona, but they let it out.
Prabhupāda: They have disclosed unintentionally. That is going on. It is beyond their dream to go either to the moon planet or Mars planet. It is not possible. Not nowadays I say—I said it ten years ago.
Prabhupāda: I have no objection.
Yogeśvara: Professor Chenique is offering to re-read our publications. To read them and when he sees something he thinks can be corrected, he will make some indication.
Prabhupāda: I have no objection. It is welcome.
Yogeśvara: (devotee enters) This is Hayeśvara. Hayeśvara dāsa, in charge of the Dutch publications, Dutch translator. He has done the Bhagavad-gītā, this edition, in Dutch.
Prabhupāda: Jaya. Thank you very much.
Bhūgarbha: This is the Dutch translation. Professor Chenique made the comment...
Prabhupāda: The idea is, suppose I am in France. I do not know French language, but there is fire in my room, and I have to call my neighbors. So somehow or other I call and take their help. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: How long this will continue?
Indian man (2): They say up to February, because this February she must have elections. Otherwise, there should be an amendment in the Constitution to allow her to continue.
Prabhupāda: That is being made.
Indian man (2): This present government will serve no indication to that, that she will be allowed. Because as far as the Constitution, only one year extension can be given to Parliament, that nobody has followed through.
Prabhupāda: One year?
Indian man (2): One year extension to the existing Parliament is given as per Constitution. After one year it must dissolve if it is necessary.
Prabhupāda: That is the Constitution. But that is going to be changed?
Jayapatākā: Some of the local people that were working with me, getting petitions, they came and told me that some people from Delhi or outside were inquiring about us, about Bhavānanda Goswami, about Jayapatākā, about this project, about how the devotees are dealing with the public, whether we are doing any anti-Indian work. All sorts of questions they are asking. So it's very important that we keep very up and up right now. All the time. But otherwise the government, they are happy with our work. And so far, Mr. Choudhuri said, other people have indicated that they have found no bad report about our society, although they are looking so hard. Therefore they are passing.
Gargamuni: The State government is very favorable. But the doubt, of course, is coming from the central government because they don't know us. But the state government, they are very favorable. Everyone we've met within the State, they like us very much. They like the Society, they like your work, and, of course, they like your books.
Jayapatākā: The local police intelligence officer in Krishnagar, when I went to see him, he told me, (Bengali). Like that, he told me. "Definitely I make you an Indian citizen." So they are favorable. I don't know how much they can do, but locally they are favorable.
Gargamuni: Now on the weekend we have tours of the building. Many groups of people come. Fifty in a group sometimes come and visit.
Prabhupāda: Tourists.
Gargamuni: Yes, tourists, and we take then on tour of the building.
Prabhupāda: Wherefrom this Christo came. The Greek word. And the Greek got from India, Kṛṣṇa. This is the history. Christian means Krishnian, godly. And Christo, so far I know, the Greek meaning is "decorated," "love." That indicates to Kṛṣṇa. If there is some scholar he can find out that Christian means Krishnian originally. (reads:) "How the soul transmigrates? The process is very subtle. The spirit soul is invisible to our material eye. It is atomic in size. After the destruction of the gross body, which is made up of the senses, blood, bone, fat, and so forth, the subtle body of mind, intelligence, and ego goes on working. So at the time of death this subtle body carries the small spirit soul to another gross body. The process is just like air carrying a fragrance. Nobody can see where this rose fragrance is coming from, but we know that it is being carried by the air. You cannot see how, but it is being done. Similarly, the process of transmigration of the soul is very subtle. According to the conditions of the mind at the time of death the minute spirit soul enters in the womb of particular mother through the semina of the father. And when the soul develops a particular type of body given by the mother it may be a human being, it may be cat, a dog, or anything." So it is brainwash? Hm?
Hari-śauri: This style that they are doing now, they explain that they wanted that because then that way, they'll be able get them played on the radio. Otherwise they won't play bhajanas or anything on the radio. But there's a distinction between that kind of music and pure Kṛṣṇa consciousness music. Even though the words indicate Kṛṣṇa consciousness, most of the songs are written in such a way that it's indirect. It's not directly Kṛṣṇa.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But you can't hear the words.
Prabhupāda: Yes, indirect.
Hari-śauri: They give this thing, "The caterpillar changed his mind," like that. It provokes some speculation.
Prabhupāda: No, indirect for gross outsiders, not for us. Therefore they should not be played in the temple. Gross outsider only.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And Kṛṣṇa is without. That is Kṛṣṇa, antar bahiḥ. Antar bahiḥ. Kuntī says in her prayers that "Kṛṣṇa, You are antar bahiḥ. Still, people cannot understand. You are... Without, You are existing, and within, You are..." Still, they are so rascal, they cannot understand. Antar bahiḥ. Kṛṣṇa is without, Kṛṣṇa is within, but they cannot see. That is their misfortune. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham (Bs. 5.35). Kṛṣṇa is within the paramāṇu, atom. Can you find out Kṛṣṇa? He says, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd... (BG 18.61). He is within your heart. Can you find out? Then where is your science? It is already indicated that He is here. Find out. How you can find out? The dimension of the soul is given, one ten-thousandth part of the upper portion of the hair. The tip of the hair, you divide into ten thousand parts and that one part is the dimension of the soul. How can you find out? Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca jīvo bhāgaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ (CC Madhya 19.140). Everything is written there. Now you find out the measurement. You cannot find out measurement of the tip of the hair. And you have to divide into ten thousand parts. Then the measurement of the soul will come. So how can you do it? But they are described in the śāstra. So go and see ārati. (end)
Prabhupāda: And again. Kṛṣṇa says aham, why do you interpret in different way.
Indian man: Now this indication is...
Prabhupāda: That means you make purposefully complicated. The father is saying, "I am father." Then why you are bringing this meaning, aham means...
Indian man: No, it's that "aham" is indicated to Who? The physical posture of Kṛṣṇa which we know or the...?
Prabhupāda: Why do we say like that? Why? (shouting) Why you are bringing physical concept He is a person, He is saying. Why do you say physical, material, and this and that way. He is father.
Indian man: Because He is saying, we should accept it?
Prabhupāda: Yes, you accept. Accept, Kṛṣṇa is in your front. And why should physical, metaphysical and chemical? Kṛṣṇa is a person. A person says...
Prabhupāda: It is a simple truth (indistinct). The father says, I am the father. Therefore what can be done? He says, the father says that "I am the father." Mother certifies, "Yes, he is your father." Still if you do not understand, what can be done?
Indian man: You indicated very beautifully mother. I accept that.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is also beautifully indicated. The father says personally, but you are so dull-headed you cannot understand.
Indian man: You say Lord Kṛṣṇa, but I must know what Kṛṣṇa is.
Prabhupāda: Then it is very difficult to make you understand. Everyone knows what is Kṛṣṇa?
Indian man: I don't know.
Prabhupāda: Then you should learn it, what is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is said, anyone who knows Kṛṣṇa, he is liberated. Because you do not know, you are not liberated. Otherwise, as soon as you understand Kṛṣṇa you become liberated.
So partial knowledge is also knowledge but Vedānta means full knowledge. So unless you come to that point it is not Vedānta. The another example is just like from a distant place you see one mountain. You'll see just like something cloud. It is not cloud. It is the mountain, but because you are seeing from a distant place you see it is something cloud. If you go little further, you'll see something green, and when you actually go to the mountain you'll find so many trees, so many living entities, so many everything full of varieties. The same mountain, absolute knowledge, advaya-jñāna, tattva-jñāna. If we accept tattva-jñāna from distant place it is Brahman. If you see that tattva-jñāna still nearer, then it is Paramātmā. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna (BG 18.61). And when you go directly to the person, just like we are talking face to... That is possibility. And that possibility Kṛṣṇa comes to show us. That is indicated by Śukadeva Gosvāmī that,
- itthaṁ satāṁ brahma-sukhānubhūtyā
- dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ para-daivatena
- māyāśritānāṁ nara-dārakeṇa
- sākaṁ vijahruḥ kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ
- (SB 10.12.11)
When Kṛṣṇa was playing with His cowherd boys friend, so Śukadeva Gosvāmī said, "Who are these boys who are playing with Kṛṣṇa who is the source of brahma-sukha?" Brahma-sukhānubhūtyā. These boys are playing with another boy known as Kṛṣṇa.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (2): Guruji, my father mentioned about this very beautiful picture just above your head. He was saying it is one of best pictures he has seen of Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna. And you indicated that there may be a card or something.
Girirāja: Yes, I have that.
Guest (2): Oh. Very good.
Guest (1): You want big picture? I can give you one.
Prabhupāda: No, you have got cards printed?
Guest (1): I have got lot of the big ones. I think big ones you don't have.
Girirāja: He's asking for a card.
Guest (2): I have been asked that he wants to keep it on paper.
Prabhupāda: I have given that picture in my Bhagavad-gītā in so many languages.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Mām evaiṣyasi. "He becomes pure devotee, and he comes back to Me." Mam evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ (BG 18.68). That is the solution: go back home, back to Godhead. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramam (BG 15.6). That is the mission of human life. For that purpose we have to do everything. How to go back to home, back to Godhead. And that point we are missing. We are engaged in so-called philanthropic work. Real purpose of life we are missing. And this can be done only in this human form of life. The Prahlāda Mahārāja says,
- kaumāra ācaret prājño
- dharmān bhāgavatān iha
- durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma
- tad apy adhruvam arthadam
- (SB 7.6.1)
Arthardam. Although it is temporary, arthadam. The dog will die, and I will also die. Both of our body is temporary. But I can die understanding the importance of life. The dog cannot. That is the difference. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja advises, kaumāra ācaret: "From the beginning of life teach dharmān bhāgavatān." So these are the indications in the śāstras. We have to do that if we actually want to do something tangible. And if you manufacture ideas, that we can do, but that will not be very much effective.
Prabhupāda: Chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya Kṛṣṇa.
Rāmeśvara: "There are two legal cases in progress at this time that we must support—one in New York and one in Los Angeles. In New York the two ISKCON leaders have been indicted by the Queens County Grand Jury for unlawful imprisonment and attempted grand larceny. In Los Angeles, ISKCON and Madonna Slavin have accused her family of kidnapping, and charges of unlawful imprisonment have been entered against the mother and several other members of the Slavin family and two friends." These two friends are the professional deprogrammers. Then it says, "As in nearly all of these cases, the media will greatly influence the outcome. Do not underestimate the power of the media. We therefore must tell our story..."
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's already become media.
Rāmeśvara: "We must therefore tell our story to them in great number, and in this way the world will hear of it. As of this date, HK," short for Hare Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: They're chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. (laughter) They're chanting Kṛṣṇa. Yes.
Prabhupāda: We are presenting God, His address, His father's name, His residence, everything. If you are intelligent, you can go back home, back to Godhead. If not, you may suffer. Others will go.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That example you gave of the dead husband... Prabhupāda gave an analogy, it is very good. To indicate who is being brainwashed. The example was a dead husband is calling his wife. That is very good example.
Rāmeśvara: They're actually doing service because they are forcing all these newspapers...
Prabhupāda: That is... Hare Kṛṣṇa—this name has become popular all over the...
Rāmeśvara: Yes. (to Gopāla?) You have experience. (laughs) The learned people in America are very concerned that we are being...
Prabhupāda: Harassed.
Rāmeśvara: The diabetics. They have diabetes. Very common. We have a devotee who does that. This boy in New York whose parents have kidnapped him many times. He is actually... That's their charge against us, that "Oh, my son is diabetic, and you are not spending $25,000 on doctors. You are not taking care of him." That is their charge against us. Then Ādi-keśava Mahārāja said, "All right, if you want him to have such excellent medical treatment, you give us the money and we'll spend it on it." So then the parents say, "Just see! Blackmail." That is a big charge in the paper. It's called extortion. Ādi-keśava Mahārāja was indicted for kidnapping and for extortion.
Hari-śauri: He's that Ed Shapiro.
Rāmeśvara: Yes. The parents cheated again. They said, "Just see, blackmail."
Hari-śauri: That's how that charge came up.
Rāmeśvara: Yes. They lie and say, "This president, he said, 'If you do not give us this money, we will let your son die.' "
Prabhupāda: In a different way.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that's...
Rāmeśvara: But spiritual is something different. So they say "A recent survey indicates that a projected six million people are participating in the Maharishi's Transcendental Meditation. Five million are practicing yoga in one form or another." Mostly for health. "Three million in the charismatic movements." That is like the cults. "Three million in mysticism, and two million in Eastern religions." That's a lot of people they have estimated are participating in Eastern religion.
Prabhupāda: Eastern Indian.
Prabhupāda: The brāhmaṇas were so learned at that time. Therefore brāhmaṇas were addressed as Pandita. Panditaji. Still they're addressed. Brāhmaṇas were addressed as Pandita, kṣatriyas were addressed as Thakura, vaiśyas were addressed as Mahājana, and śūdras were addressed as Chaudhuri. Yes, still. In northern India this is the etiquette.
Guest (1): But, sir, now these things are so complicated only the title indicates the caste.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Nowadays it is topsy-turvied. There is no system, Kali-yuga.
Guest (2): Today somebody is a brāhmaṇa, tomorrow's he's kṣatriya, and day after tomorrow he's something else.
Prabhupāda: Udaraṁ bharatā. Dakṣyaṁ udaraṁ bhāratā. Bas, Kali-yuga. Somehow or other, if you can fill up your bellies, then you are very expert. That is going on. If you can maintain your family nicely, then you are dakṣya. Dakṣyaṁ udaraṁ bhāratā. These symptoms are there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Because the Kali-yuga, it is so condemned that it will be difficult to maintain one's body and soul together, that udaraṁ bharita is very expert. He's maintaining. (laughs) Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā (SB 1.1.10). All unfortunate, they have no certainty.
Prabhupāda: It is quite logical that without father, nobody is born. So I do not know who is my father, but the mother is the evidence. That's all. You cannot make this theory that "I was born without father." That is not possible. That is not the laws of nature. But there must be father. You can say, "I have not him." And that is not proof that there is no father. One who has seen, go. Tattva-darśinaḥ. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says,
- tad viddhi praṇipātena
- paripraśnena sevayā
- upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ
- jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ
- (BG 4.34)
Go to mother who has seen your father. That is only proof. Tattva-darśinaḥ. She has seen your father. So you submit, praṇipātena, to mother. "Mother, tell me who is my father." And she'll say, "Yes, he is." Tattva... She has seen. Tattva-darśinaḥ. It is not that mother is blindly indicating somebody as father. She has seen, and you have to learn from your mother by submission. That's all. There is no other way.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No? Recently, about a month ago... This will give you an indication of the nature of how many people are becoming in America, and especially the authorities are becoming very unjust. One man had a son in Texas and the boy was smoking marijuana. He was smoking for about a month or two. So for two weeks, when his father came to know, his father was telling him, "You should stop this smoking of marijuana," but the boy continued to smoke it. So one night the father came into the boy's room, took out a gun and shot his brains, killed him.
Prabhupāda: Killed him?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Killed his own son because he was smoking marijuana.
Prabhupāda: Supplied by māyā, the machine, this, that. He has nothing to do. Karaṇ... This is also Vedic mantra. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. Just like I am an ordinary man. If I want to do something, I ask one or two, "Do this." I ask somebody, "Bring some money." I ask somebody that "You do this." So if an ordinary man can do, why God should do anything? Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. He has nothing to do. Na tat-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate. He can do everything, because nobody is equal to Him, but still does not do anything. Why? Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). His energy are so mighty millions that simply by indicating the energy, it will do. This is God. This is God. Just like big man, big industrialist, he simply pushes his button, and the secretary comes: "I want this." Immediately. This is... Ordinary human being can do. So why God has to do? He'll simply dance with the gopīs. That's all. That is God. He'll enjoy. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitā... That is God. Therefore everything is done by God's agent or His expansion. Otherwise God has nothing to do. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. Simply indication. Here it is said that Īśvara, the Lord, is situated everyone's heart. He can understand "What this rascal wants." He's so kind, He's living as friend. "My dear son, please come back.
Prabhupāda: Daily. At least weekly twice. Sunday, Monday, we shall hold lectures and call all scholarly people to understand. Make it nicely.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh. We went a few days ago to Calcutta University to see the vice chancellor. Four of us went, the other two scientists and Ravīndra Svarūpa, and we talked with the inspector of schools, who came to visit here in Māyāpur about two months ago, and we discussed the possibility of getting affiliated in the Calcutta University, of giving some Ph.D. degrees in our philosophy. He indicated some ideas that it is possible, but he suggested that we must have a very good library.
Prabhupāda: That is the difficulty.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. They already said that two years ago.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They want us to buy so many nonsense books.
Prabhupāda: And nobody reads.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Rāmeśvara: And they have got the womb area a little effulgent to indicate the presence of Śukadeva being a pure...
Prabhupāda: Overgrown.
Rāmeśvara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Rāmeśvara: Well, it will be overgrown, but they also want it to be effulgent.
Prabhupāda: Not overgrown. This is all right.
Prabhupāda: No. Therefore he has got some special qualification. So managerial, it is not always possible. But these things required. We want one man that he has no visa problem, and at the sane time devotee.
Guru dāsa: Yes. I went to the visa department. I just thought I should go. And I spoke to one man there. And I said, "Why is that we always have to spend five or six lakhs going and coming for no use? We are doing such good work, we could put that five or six lakhs into India." He said, "What can I do? I am under the law also." I said "The law is needing some change." He said "Your organization already changes the law." He said, "You never follow the rules." So I said "That is indicative that the law is not good." So then he said, "Let us see after the election." Anyway, I spoke to him that this is useless, that we spend five or six lakhs every year going and coming for no need.
Bhavānanda: We don't stay out. They tell us to leave, we leave, one week later we're back.
Prabhupāda: Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Everywhere they are doing this. (Sanskrit) The world is misled in this way by bad leaders. We are trying to get (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: They could not measure the whole thing. That is not possible.
Yaśodānandana: Then it describes here that "On the west and east of Ilāvṛta-varṣa are two great mountains named Mālyavān and Gandhamādana respectively. These two mountains, which are 2,000 yojanas, 16,000 miles..." (break) "...in the north and Niṣadha mountain in the south. They indicate the borders of Ilāvṛta-varṣa and also the varṣas named as Ketumāla-varṣa and Bhadrāśva-varṣa." Then it gets into more details regarding Mount Meru. "Text number eleven. On the four sides of the great mountain known as Sumeru are four mountains," these Mandara Parvata. This is the mountain.
Prabhupāda: So how you'll show actually?
Bhakti-prema: This is according to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: No, that's all right. Now, that doll, that you have to make.
Prabhupāda: That means you have to change.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, we have a change. One man is expert. He knows how to run. The other men, they simply watch the gauges to see that... Because the gauges indicate that's everything's okay. If anything ever goes wrong, then they call that man. He's a maintenance man. He's very good.
Prabhupāda: So where do they supply oil?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oil? There are companies that sell you oil. I don't know what the rate is.
Prabhupāda: What is that oil? Petrol?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's crude... It's something like crude oil, I think. I'm not sure, Prabhupāda. They just call it oil.
Prabhupāda: Not vegetable oil.
Prabhupāda: That... Whatever I'll say, he'll accept. There is no question of refusing.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right.
Prabhupāda: Whatever I'll order...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I mean, he has to hear that from you. That's what I was trying to indicate.
Prabhupāda: I'll give you whatever you demand.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, he is completely surrendered.
Prabhupāda: There is no problem. Now show us. Let us practically see that what has happened by changing.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Changing. You have to show some results now.
Mr. Myer: Quite right. Quite right.
Prabhupāda: Or doing something or not doing, whatever I'll order...
Mr. Myer: No, this may mean certain major reorganization in terms of the managing account. It is sort of personal. So it will have to be...
Prabhupāda: They'll do. They'll do whatever I ask.
Prabhupāda: I'm not misrepresenting. I like this dress.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say this dress indicates a Christian...
Prabhupāda: Whatever indication, I like this. You cannot check my liking. Just like an Indian dresses like a European, or a European dresses like Indian. Does it mean that he has become Indian or he's American? He likes it. That's all. Can you object if a girl dresses like Indian with ladies' sari? Can you object? It is something like that. "Oh, why you have become Indian-like? Why you are imitating?"
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say, "Well, no, you can wear your Santa Claus suit, but you'll have to wear a Hare Kṛṣṇa button."
Prabhupāda: That we can do. Never mind. But that is not under your dictation. If I like.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa men. They want Bengal completely godless.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's interesting to see how the Chief Minister Basu, he concentrates on only one point—"They have entered India illegally, which means now they must be asked to leave." That's the only thing he's pointed on, this one point. It's like it indicates his whole motive: "Get them out somehow." Oh, it's a very clever plan. They knew we would defend, and then on the pretext that we're taking the offense, arresting. And they knew already that we were entering with these passports changed. They already knew. Very clever plan. The thing is that this is very, very much harmful to our preaching work for the time being in Bengal.
Prabhupāda: No.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think any village will receive us nicely now. They'll think that we're...
Prabhupāda: No. It will be in our favor.
Prabhupāda: And the behavior of the police.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Indicates that everything else is wrong. His silence in reporting that the police...
Prabhupāda: Not only silence. In favor of or against us. Now if the Central Government properly inquires, the whole thing will be discovered.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And at least they're going to have to get our side. They're going to have to get our side.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And there are certain indisputable facts. For example...
Prabhupāda: Big, big ministers are in favor of our movement, Morarji Desai and Vajpayi.
Prabhupāda: But they have not issued any letter, "Yes, it will be done"?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, their acknowledgement of the letter should constitute that. I got them to acknowledge that they received the original. The fact that they would take the receipt of the fixed deposits indicates that they have to do the needful, as we have instructed them. And I have no doubt that they will do that. When they came to see you, they accepted that they would have to do that, because the money was sent to them, the four lakhs.
Prabhupāda: So other banking business going on? Huh?
Akṣayānanda: Generally everything is all right, yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bank is giving good service?
Akṣayānanda: Yes. It's all right.
Prabhupāda: Go on. (break)
Prabhupāda: So let us go in a team.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think we may have enough devotees to fill the whole train.
Bhavānanda: By looking at all the devotees assembled here, Śrīla Prabhupāda, the looks on their faces indicate that everyone likes this idea.
Prabhupāda: So do it. Do it.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's a good idea.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So shall we perform some kīrtana, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Haṁsadūta Swami is here.
Prabhupāda: Jaya.
Bhavānanda: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)
Guest: (Bengali)
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) (end)
Prabhupāda: No, he's traveling. His secretary... The news?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, he hasn't given any indication.
Prabhupāda: Tell.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Okay.
Prabhupāda: My sister is going back?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: When?
Bhakti-caru: When we first planned that we'll go by train, then she wanted to come in the same train actually. But now I think that many of our devotees will be going by train, so she can go with them on the train.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. She will (indistinct).
Bhavānanda: And also, Śrīla Prabhupāda, your suggestion that you wanted to go on parikrama, we also thought, was an indication that you must be feeling a little stronger. In initial stage of taking this medicine it has to take some time before it even can begin to equalize a deteriorating situation, what to speak of making positive gains in strength. The medicine first has to act to stop the deterioration. Even that takes some time. Then, once it's equalized and maintain that, then it will work to build the body. If you're feeling, though, that you're deteriorating condition, then perhaps we shouldn't go on the parikrama this morning.
Prabhupāda: No, parikrama I shall go.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? You expected to immediately get some result by taking this makara-dhvaja?
Prabhupāda: I am already puzzled? Mixed-up.(?)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You said you're puzzled, Śrīla Prabhupāda? You said you're puzzled?
Prabhupāda: Ātreya Ṛṣi?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhakti-caru Mahārāja suggested that they may have taken the hopping flight from Calcutta, which stops in about three different places. I can just see my airline... I don't have an up-to-date airline schedule, but even the one I have might indicate the afternoon flight. Shall I see it?
Prabhupāda: Everything is theory.
Prabhupāda: So... In Bengali there is such thing, "When you hesitate, don't do it."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we also sometimes feel that when there's a hesitation, it seems like the Supersoul is giving indication.
Prabhupāda: But he has not also come? Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhagatji?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He has not come yet.
Prabhupāda: So when he will come?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I am also beginning to wonder. He was supposed to come by at least four or five o'clock. I'm sure he'll have a good reason, but until he comes I cannot speculate on why he's late.
Prabhupāda: It will be late. The other person, whether they will come at night?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, that's probably why he is late, because they would only come at night.
Prabhupāda: Why they suppose?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, I personally don't feel at this point... Frankly speaking, I don't think that this reply on his part is very good. I don't think it's proper. He's speaking about a settlement. First of all there is no settlement. The whole legal way in which he's worded this letter indicates to me that he's not taking things in a very... Seems to me he has some motives. He has no reason to doubt this scheme. That's my point. And if he's thinking that he has some kind of rights... (break) ...offices. They're very pleased. And they were especially pleased to get these fixed deposits. Immediately we gave them this six lakhs' fixed deposits, they were very happy with this. They've got about something like 350 accounts already from outsiders within a month or two. They're very, very pleased. They feel that this will become a full branch very quickly, and they have a great amount of space, and they're not at all sorry about the price that they're paying. And it's a good income for our temple.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
| Page Title: | Indicate (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur |
| Created: | 07 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=101, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 101 |