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Independent (Conversations 1975)

Expressions researched:
"independant" |"independent" |"independently"

Conversations and Morning Walks

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1975, Hawaii:

Devotee (1): We should dedicate our lives to preaching this message of Lord Caitanya.

Prabhupāda: Yes, preaching, preaching, you will become perfect preacher. Preach only what you have heard from Kṛṣṇa and guru, that's all. Don't add and subtract. Then you are secure. And if you add some concoction just like somebody says that "I may do whatever I like independently. If I chant, then everything is all right," this is nonsense addition. It is not the fact. That is the danger. Some inexperienced man, he introduces some concoction. Sometimes they say, "Prabhupāda said it." More misleading. Yes. (end)

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): Then he's asking, he's humbly asking you to give him a little bit of the clue.

Prabhupāda: Yes, just like... It is very common sense clue. Kṛṣṇa says the proprietor of the body is within the body. Now, you were a child. So in your child body, you were present there, and in your boyhood body, you were present there. In your youthhood body, you were present there. Now you are middle-aged. You are there. I am old man. I am there. So body, the childhood body, the boyhood body, the youthhood body, they are no more existing, but I am existing. Therefore I am eternal; the body is temporary. This is the clue. Therefore the conclusion is that as I have changed so many body but still I am existing, therefore, when I shall change this body, I will exist. Now, I have transmigrated from babyhood body to childhood, childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood. Similarly, I shall transmigrate to another body. A you..., young man can say, "No, no, I don't believe in the old body," but that does not mean he will not get the old body. He will get it by laws of nature. That is compulsory. Similarly, if somebody says, "I don't believe in the next life," that does not mean he is authority. Nature will give him. Nature will not agree or obey the imperfect person. The same example: if the young man says, "I don't want old body," nature will not hear him. Nature will give him, force him: "You must accept old body." Everyone does not want to die, but nature puts him forcibly: "Yes, you must die." So after all, we are perfectly under the control of superior authority. We cannot become independent, and our independent thoughts has no value.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: No, you have got that... Just like you have stolen, and you have gone to the prison house. That means judge is not imperfect; you are imperfect.

Professor: If God has not created us imperfect?

Prabhupāda: No, God has created perfect, but you have become imperfect by misusing your independence. God is fully independent. You are part and parcel of God. Therefore you have got that quality, independence. When you misuse that, you become bad; when you use it properly, you remain good.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): Yes. How do we make ourselves bad?

Prabhupāda: Therefore the Bible is there: "You become good like this." If you don't do, then you become bad. The Bible says that "Thou shall not kill." If you don't kill, then you are good. If you kill, you are bad.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He said there is no guarantee of perfect knowledge because at one time we had perfect knowledge, but as you said, we threw it away. So therefore...

Prabhupāda: No, no, you misused the perfect knowledge. Just like here is perfect knowledge: Bible says, "Thou shall not kill." You are misusing, you are killing. That is your fault.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Our first problem is, because we have got this material body, eating. Everyone must eat. So Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, annād bhavanti bhūtāni: (BG 3.14) "If there is sufficient food grains, then both man and animal, they become happy." Therefore our first religion is to produce food grain sufficiently to feed everyone. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva (BG 18.44). This matter has been entrusted to the vaiśyas. They should produce sufficient food and give protection to the cows for sufficient milk. Then the whole human society, animal society, will be happy. But we are disobeying the orders or the rules given by God. Instead of producing food, we are producing motorcars. And motor tires, motor parts. And so many other things. And therefore people are starving. The manual labor is being misused. We are disobeying the orders of God. Therefore we are unhappy. I have seen all over the world. There are enough space for producing food grains. And if we actually produce food grain, we can maintain ten times of the present population of the whole world. There is no question of scarcity because God has created everything complete. Pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation). There cannot be any defect in the creation of God. We have created these defects on account of our disobeying the orders of God. God never said that "motorcar-ād bhavanti bhūtāni." He never says. But instead of producing food grains, we are producing so many unwanted things. People's energy is engaged for... Just like in America or in every country, so much energy and resources are engaged for preparing war materials. And that means there must be war. And you must be killed; I must be killed. You will kill me; I will kill you. That's all. Therefore God says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). The human society should be divided into four classes of men: the most intelligent class, brāhmaṇa; the next intelligent class, kṣatriya; then next intelligent class, vaiśyas; and the fourth-class men, who cannot become brāhmaṇa, neither kṣatriya, nor vaiśya, they are called śūdra. Śūdra is meant for giving service to the others. Paricaryātmakaṁ karyaṁ śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). So in this age, 99% people are engaged as śūdra, working for others. No independence. Otherwise brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, they are independent. They are nobody's servant. But at the present moment, education means how to become expert servant. That means śūdra. So we cannot expect any good things from śūdra. That is not possible. Formerly there was monarchy, and the kings were called rājarṣis, saintly king. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). These instruction are meant for the rājarṣis, not for the śūdras. So the rājarṣis, they would take instruction from superior authority, brāhmaṇas and Vaiṣṇavas, and they will accordingly rule over. And the vaiśyas would produce food grains sufficiently and milk sufficiently. People would eat very nicely, and they keep their health fit and save time for understanding his relationship with God. That is perfect civilization.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Guest (2): Is it determined by jāti, by birth?

Prabhupāda: No. His quality... He has no quality.

Guest (2): Spiritual type.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not spiritual type, it..., material type. He cannot maintain himself independently. Nowadays people are being educated highly, but if there is no service he has no value.

Guest (2): So the tamasi.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He has no value. I have seen one doctor of chemistry—he could not get any service—in Allahabad. His name was Raghunātha Mitri(?), Dr. Raghunātha Mitri. So he was living at the cost of his father-in-law and making some soap and going to the shop for selling, doctor. That means he could not get any service. Now his independence was to manufacture some soap as ordinary man is doing. But he was chemist; he could not do anything. He could manufacture some soap. So in spite of high education, because he could not get a good job, he had no value. Just like the dogs. The dogs, if they do not get a master, nice, then street dog. He is lean and thin and no shelter, no...

Guest (1): That is what is happening...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Guest (1): ...at the present time in this country to 10% of the people. They don't have jobs. They are let out. They can't...

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, every country, every country. Now, just like you are highly educated. Your country could not give you service. You are coming here. And that is śūdra. One who cannot live independently, he is śūdra. Paricaryātmakaṁ karyaṁ śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. In this age, everyone is practically śūdra, because nobody can live independently. So we are producing mass śūdras. Therefore it is in chaotic condition. The Communist is the last word of the śūdras. The Communist philosophy is that "We are worker. We have all the power. We must have all the power." And that they are doing. And because they do not want to obey any authority, therefore they are denying existence of God. This is the tendency of the modern society. Not only they do not know what is God, and they are trying to disobey the orders of God. So practically there is no religion. And without religion human society is animal society. Dharmeṇa hīnā pasubhiḥ samānāḥ. "Human being without any ideas of religion, God, he is no better than animal." That is the difference between animal and human being. Animal eats, we eat; animal sleeps, we sleep; animal have sexual intercourse, we have; animal also defends, we also defend. These are common features. And what is the special feature? The special feature of human being—that he can understand what is God. So if he does not understand God, he is animal, because the distinction between animal and man is being avoided.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Guest (6): Yes, I understand now. I spoke earlier with some people... In other words you say we are co-eternal with the father just as Christ is.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are all eternal. That is nityo nityānām. I have already explained. Nitya means eternal. There are two eternals: one chief eternal, God, and one subordinate eternals, they are plural number. God is one, and we are many. Father is one; the children are many. Similarly, both the father and the children are eternal. God is not created, and the childrens are not created. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, na jāyate na mriyate vā. All these living entity, they are never created; neither they ever die. Nityaḥ śāśvatam na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). They are eternal, ever existing. Even after the destruction of the body, they are not annihilated. So God is eternal. That I have already explained. And we living entities, we are also eternal. How the son can be otherwise? If the father is eternal, the son is also eternal. The son cannot be... Because son is the expansion, part and parcel of the father, so all the qualities of the father are there. The only quality difference is the father maintainer and the sons are maintained. That means the father has got unlimited resources to maintain the sons, and the sons, they have no resources. They are maintained by the father. This is perfect philosophy. Otherwise, if you are self-sufficient, then why you go to church and beg father, "Give us our daily bread"? That is... That means you are maintained. You are begging the father, "Please maintain us." So if the Supreme Being, who is maintaining millions of trillions of living entities, He is great, or the living entities who are maintained by God, they are great? Therefore God is great, and we are subordinate. This is natural conclusion. How you can go otherwise? If you are self-sufficient, why go to church and pray, "God, give us our daily bread"? Are you independent?

Guest (6): No. I am a creature.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Reporter: Is the teacher always necessary? I mean, many meditation groups or yoga groups say that...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why you are asking? Anything you want to learn, you must go to a teacher. How you can learn independently?

Reporter: I mean just, say, by reading the Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Reading Bhagavad-gītā is also taking lesson from the teacher. Teacher—Kṛṣṇa is personally the teacher, and you read Bhagavad-gītā means you take lessons from teacher, the supreme teacher.

Reporter: I read a news report recently that you had said in Paris that you no longer taught your followers to chant simply the name of, the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, because the name of God could be chanted in any form. Is that so?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Chanting of the holy name... We are broadcasting that you, in this age, you begin for God realization. Chant His holy name. Very simple thing.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: That I do not know, but the remedy is there. If you like, you can take it. If a man is suffering from some disease, the remedy is there, the physician is there, but if he does not take advantage, then that is his business. What can be done? This is very nice... Every Bhāgavata, every line is so important.

anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād
bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje
lokasyājānato vidvāṁś
cakre sātvata-saṁhitām
(SB 1.7.6)

Those who are high-grade personalities, they are always thinking, "How these rascals will be happy?" Their only business is that. But their instruction is not being accepted. That is the difficulty. They have been described as mūḍha. Mūḍha. This word, mūḍha, means rascals. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamaḥ (BG 7.15). The lowest of the mankind, miscreants and rascals, these class of men will not accept God as the supreme. But He is... Kṛṣṇa is speaking, "Rascal." One may protest that "There are so many educated men. They are all rascals?" But that is also confirmed: "Yes, they are rascals." Why? māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. "Their real knowledge has been taken away by the illusory energy." māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. Why it is done? Āsuri bhāvam āśritāḥ: "Because they have accepted this theory 'There is no God.' " That is the difficulty. Āsuri bhāvam āśritāḥ. They are under the control. How you can say there is no God? Are you free? Are you independent? What do you think? Are you independent of God?

Reporter: I guess we're not independent of our death.

Prabhupāda: You want to be independent?

Haṁsadūta: He says that "I guess we are not independent of our death."

Prabhupāda: That's it. Very... Thank you. (laughter) That is intelligence. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). Those who are not accepting God in lifetime, they will meet God, death. Death is another form of God. That they cannot deny. Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu. He simply defied God, and Nṛsiṁha-deva came, finished everything within a second.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Dr. Movebhed: Is that really the right conclusion?

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the right conclusion, that God is also Supreme Being and we are also being, so as being, we are one, but as Supreme, He is different. That is the right conclusion. You are not Supreme Being. You are being controlled by the Supreme Being. You cannot say that you are independent. Therefore you are not Supreme. You are dependent on Him. Eko hi yasya vidadhāti kāmān, bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. He maintains. Just like this coconut. God has given us this coconut fruit to enjoy or to live upon it. But I cannot create this coconut. It is not possible. Therefore, for my maintenance He has sent this coconut. So He is maintainer; I am maintained, although He is being; I am also being. He is maintainer being; I am maintained being. This is the right conclusion. No scientist... He can talk so many things about this coconut, but unfortunately he cannot manufacture this coconut. That is not possible. He can manufacture something subordinate-chairs, table—but not this coconut. Not possible.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Guest: They say powerful but what about...

Prabhupāda: Yes, then we have to know this powerful, not only the power. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). In another place, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir eka chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni bibharti durgā (Bs. 5.44). Durgā is power. Power is in... What kind of power? Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir eka. She can create, she can maintain and she can destroy, so powerful. But this power, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir eka chāyeva (Bs. 5.44), is working just like shadow. Just like here is shadow. I am moving this hand; the shadow is moving. Shadow is not independently moving. Therefore this gigantic power, material energy, is working under the direction of Kṛṣṇa. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayādhyakṣeṇa: (BG 9.10) "under My superintendence." So we are allured with the power, but who is manipulating this power we do not know. That is God.

Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, you are in need of manager. You are in need of manager. You cannot deny another class of men of manager, so why not make the best manager, the brāhmaṇa, who is truthful, who is equal, satya śamaḥ damaḥ, who is control of his senses, satya śamaḥ damaḥ titikṣa, who is tolerant? These are the brahminical qualification. Satya śamaḥ damaḥ titikṣa. Who is simple, not hypocrite. Everyone is hypocrite. So why there should not be a class who is not hypocrite? All politicians saying something in the mouth and doing something else, because they are śūdra. So this is very scientific. How it not be scientific? It is spoken by God. Cātur-varnyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Required. Just like in this institution, I am guru, and if everyone becomes guru, then who will carry out the order of guru? There must be disciple also, who will carry out the order of guru. So it is not required... Just like in your body, it is not that body is made of head only, but head is required. You cannot avoid head, neither you can avoid the leg. So śūdra required, the brāhmaṇa required, the kṣatriya required, and the vaiśya required. And the society should be very nicely managed. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ. Why does He not say one varṇa, brāhmaṇa? Naturally there must be division because all men are not of the same quality. You cannot expect. So whatever quality he has got, utilize that. Aṇḍha-khañja-nyāya. Aṇḍha-khañja-nyāya. The one man is lame, and one man is blind. So both are useless. So they combine together. The lame man was taken on the shoulder of the blind man. So the lame man has no leg, but he has got eyes. He was directing, "Go this way." So both their business was perfect. Similarly, according to the quality of the work, there must be a class of men less intelligent. They cannot independently work. They must require a master. That is śūdra. And then the vaiśya, then the kṣatriya, and the upper man is brāhmaṇa. He gives the direction to the kṣatriya. He is ruler.

Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta:

Guest: Blind leaders and blind followers?

Prabhupāda: Then they are controlled by the laws of material nature, and they want to be happy independently. This is rascaldom. If I am controlling you and you want to become happy independently, how it is possible? You must get out of the control first of all. Your eyes should be open. Then you can do something independently. But you are under my control fully, and I have wrapped up your eyes with very thick layer of cloth, and then how you can become independent, work. That they do not know. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). This māyā, this energy, is very, very strong. You cannot get out of it. Then what is the way? Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so important. If one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then immediately he gets out of the control of māyā. That is the sign. Otherwise, if I remain a blind man, how can I lead others? Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore said, janma sārthaka kari kāra para-upakāra (CC Adi 9.41). You are very busy doing good to others, but first of all make your life perfect. And otherwise, you rascal, fool, blind, what you will do? So where is the training? Where the politicians are going to take training how to become free from the wrapping, illusion? So they are in illusion, in darkness. What they can do? Futile attempt. Therefore all plans are failure.

Interview with a German Girl and Assorted Devotees -- March 30, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: But only for furniture and apartment, if you forget yourself and act in such a way, then next life you become a dog and lie on the street, then what is the use of your furniture? You are getting next life. First of all, you understand that, that "This is not the end of my life. I am eternal. I am changing my body." So it is described as dress. Now you may be dressed like a royal king. And next dress may be different. "May be" means it must be. And for the examples of the dresses—so many living entities. So you must be cautious that "What kind of dress I am going to have next?" (break) Where is that science? Where is that school, college? If you remain only confident that "I'll go on with this dress perpetually," that is not the fact. You'll have to change your dress. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). But we have no knowledge that "What kind of dress I am going to have?" It is a fact. I have already changed dress. I had a child dress. I had a boy's dress. I had a young man dress. Now I have got old man's dress. Now, Kṛṣṇa says that, "This also, you'll have to change." So why I am not inquiring "What kind of dress I am going to have?" and "How I am changing this dress?" So young man doesn't want to become old man. That is a fact. But if a young man says, "No, no, I don't want old man's dress," will it be accepted? Nature will say, "No, you must accept." Where is the remedy for this? Why these rascals do not understand that "I am fully under the control of nature's law, and I am declaring free. I am becoming philosopher"? He's fully under the control of nature's law. You have read Bhagavad-gītā. It is said, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmaṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). You are fully under the control of the laws of nature, and still you are thinking "I am independent. There is no superior controller." What is this nonsense? Hm? What is the answer?

Haṁsadūta: (German)

Prabhupāda: Is it not foolish? You appreciate that you are under the control of material nature, and still, you are thinking independent. What is this nonsense?

Girl: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: Yes.

Interview with a German Girl and Assorted Devotees -- March 30, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Hm? I am in the prison house, and the prison superintendent is controlling me fully, and if I say, "I don't care for anyone," what is this nonsense? Even in ordinary life, if somebody says, "I don't care for government laws. I shall do whatever I like," is it very good sense? Similarly, you are fully under the control of material nature, and you are declaring independence. You should, rather, consider that "Why I have been put under the control of material nature? I don't want it. I don't want to be diseased. But why disease is forced upon me? I don't want to become old man. Why it is forced upon me? I don't want to die. Why death is forced upon me?" These should be the proper questions. But instead of questioning this, he's thinking, "I am independent." How much foolish he is.

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: That is logical... Means you have no brain to understand. That's all. That is the distinction between God and ourself. We are caused, but He is cause of all causes. That is God. Otherwise, how you'll distinguish between you and God? You are caused, but He is not caused. He's causeless. If He becomes caused, then He becomes like you. Then how He becomes God? That is the distinction between God and ourself. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, in the beginning it is said, svarāt.

Satsvarūpa: Independent.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Janmādy asya yataḥ: (SB 1.1.1) "This Absolute Truth is that from which, who is the origin of everything, but He's svarāṭ." This is the first line of Bhāgavata. Janmādy asya yataḥ anvayāt itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ (SB 1.1.1).

Satsvarūpa: They don't like it because God doesn't come under their jurisdiction, then.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Satsvarūpa: They want... They want God to be under their jurisdiction. So...

Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness. You shall be under the jurisdiction of God. God is not under your jurisdiction. Then how He is God?

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1975, Mayapur:

Satsvarūpa: Just like we say God is svarāṭ, they say that the matter is svarāṭ.

Prabhupāda: Yes, in... Not svarāṭ. We never find a gas is svarāṭ, matter is svarāṭ. They... Just this body. Has this body come out itself? Because the soul is there, the body has developed. Therefore the cause of this body is the soul. The body is not independent. And the soul goes away. Then body's no more independent. It cannot move. It becomes just like dust. "Dust thou art; dust thou be-est." (break) ...like this body is moving now, but it is not independent. It is dependent on the soul. The soul goes away; it does not move. So how it is independent? And everyone knows that because the soul takes shelter within the womb of the mother, the body develops. If the child comes out dead, it does not develop. Therefore matter is dependent on the soul, living being.

Rāmeśvara: Their argument is that matter is always in motion, that it is always moving.

Prabhupāda: Where is moving? This is moving?

Rāmeśvara: Well they say the atoms, the molecules, are always in motion.

Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all prove that this is moving. Then all, say all this nonsense. First of all, why it is not moving? This, this piece of earth, why it is not moving?

Viṣṇujana: They say it's moving very slowly. You can't see it moving.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Eh?

Viṣṇujana: It's moving so slow, you can't see it.

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: "So then pay more money. Come on. You have earned money and give me. I shall give you food. And whatever I shall ask, you have to pay." This simple thing, more demand-price is more. Then why do you gripe, "Oh, everything is price growing, price growing." Why it will not? If I have got food, and you have to purchase, and I have got so many customers, I must increase. That is economic theory: more demand—the price is increased. And then you say, "There are so many problems. We have to solve first." But you have created this problem, rascal. And you shall must suffer. You have infected some disease. Now you must suffer. It is like say, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). The reason is that you have infected some quality of the modes of nature and you must suffer for that. How you can deny it? If you have infected some disease like cholera, smallpox, and when you are suffering, how you can blaim? You have infected. You must suffer. Nature's law is so strict that as soon as you infect a particular type of quality of nature—there are so many—you must suffer for that, or so-called enjoy. There are two things, suffer and enjoy. So you must have to undergo the process. This is... Nature's process is so nice. As soon as you do something, there is reaction and you are bound up. Yajñārthe karma anyatra loko 'yaṁ karma bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). Bandhanaḥ means bound up. Immediately you become bound up. And still, you are thinking, "Independent." The nature's law is so strict.

Morning Walk -- (World War III) -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Rūpānuga: Just like you told that Russian professor that he is surrendering to Lenin, but we are surrendering to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rūpānuga: But everyone has to surrender.

Prabhupāda: Surrender, this, that is the only way. You cannot become independent. You have to surrender. Who is a man who has not surrendered? At least he finds out a dog and surrenders to him. (laughter) In your country there are so many people living with the dog. So surrender is the only business of you. Jīvera 'svarūpa' haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). (pause) So Acyutānanda cannot come?

Viṣṇujana: He's lecturing in the temple.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, someone asked a question the other day about the atom which I couldn't give the answer to. His question is that if we say that within the atom the living entity, the jīva, is present, and life symptoms means six symptoms of birth, growth...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Their life symptoms has not yet come. But there is.

Jayādvaita: Potential.

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1975, Mayapur:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But they say it is just a proof of nature, not a proof of God.

Prabhupāda: Yes, nature is instrumental, just like jail is instrument. But the proprietor of the jail, conductor of the jail, is government. Jail is not acting independently. By the government's direction. Similarly, the nature is working by the direction of God. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). That is stated. Nature is not independent. Just like the nature is that this lump of matter will lie down here, but if God desires, it can fly on the sky. That is God's will. Nature is not independent. Then it would have remained here. Just like Lord Rāmacandra collected stones, and it was floating. According to law of gravitation, how it can float?

Brahmānanda: Well, they say that's just a story.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Brahmānanda: They say that's...

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa never says that, that "You send your children to the universities and make them fools and rascals." So one who is depending on job, he's a śūdra. That is not education. Education is not meant for the śūdra but for the dvijas, twice-born, the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, and vaiśya. Śūdras are never for education. So their education, so-called education, means creating so many śūdras. Unless he gets a job his education is useless. Therefore he's a śūdra. And brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya—they will create their own means of livelihood. That is brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya. Therefore they are unhappy. They don't get job, neither they are able to work independently.

Nalinī-kānta: Punishment is not the best means of reformation. Sometimes if someone is sent to jail by the government, he'll simply be thinking, "Oh, when I can get out and depose these rascals?" So if someone is punished by God, he might become more angry towards God.

Prabhupāda: But that does not mean God will stop punishing. Just like these animals. The stick is there. He may be angry, but stick is required. Otherwise you cannot work with him. "Hut!" You see? The stick is there in his hand. Otherwise he cannot get work. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

Conversation with Indian Guests -- April 12, 1975, Hyderabad:

Guest (3): Even in the Bhāgavatam you don't see the...

Prabhupāda: No, Rādhā... There, Bhāgavata, there is. That is foolish proposition, "In the Bhāgavata there is no Rādhārāṇī." There is. But at least in the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa has never said about His Vṛndāvana-līlā. No. That is very confidential. That is not for common man. The common man, first of all let him understand what is Kṛṣṇa. That is Bhagavad-gītā. That they do not understand. Even big, big leaders, politicians, scholars, they do not understand. Because they do not take to Kṛṣṇa's instruction, therefore they fail to understand. And what they'll understand about Rādhārāṇī? You... If you are my confidential friend, then I can take to my family. And if you are outsider, why should you expect to come into my family life? This is common sense. You do not understand Kṛṣṇa, and you want to understand Kṛṣṇa's dealings with Rādhārāṇī. That is very confidential. Rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī-śaktir asmāt. You have to understand Kṛṣṇa, then His pleasure potency, hlādinī-śakti. The difficulty is that we do not want to become a regular student. Haphazardly, here and there, here and there, but I remain the same thing. It is a science. Jñānaṁ me paramaṁ guhyaṁ yad vijñāna-samanvitam. Tad vijñāna samanvitam. Jñānaṁ te 'haṁ sa-vijñānaṁ pravakṣyāmi anasūyave, yaj jñātvā na anyaj jñātavyam avaśiṣyate... (BG 7.2). But the Vedas do not say like that. Vedas say, tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). If you are serious to learn about that, tad vijñāna. Tad vijñānaṁ, gurum evābhigacchet. You must go to a bona fide guru who can teach you. Nobody is serious. That is the difficulty. Everyone is thinking, "I am free," although he is pulled by the ear by nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). You have done like this, come on, here, sit down. This is going on, prakṛti. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). The rascal, befooled by his false ego, he is thinking, "I am everything. I am independent." Those who are thinking like that, they have been described in the Bhagavad-gītā, ahaṅkāra vimūḍhātmā. The false ego is bewildered and thinking, "What I am thinking is all right." No, you cannot think in your own way. Must think as Kṛṣṇa says, then you are right.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Education, if it is not for the benefit of the people, then what is the use of such education? That is not a good education. Education means something which will benefit the mass of people. That is education. To enlighten them to do something better. That is education. And this whole Darwin's theory is false. But people are giving too much stress. First of all, anyone, even Darwin, he's not independent. Just like Darwin has died. So, he is under the control of something higher. Nobody wants to die, but he is forced to die. Is it not? Then where is his independence?

Carol: That is the illusion.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Amogha: She says that is the illusion of independence.

Prabhupāda:? Yes, so if you simply in illusion you live, then where is your education? If you remain in darkness, then where is your education? Illusion means darkness. So if you are in darkness, now what is your education? And where is your philosophy?

Carol: The only way to remove this darkness is through love. Is this what you are saying?

Prabhupāda: Love is far away. First of all you be educated.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: She says doesn't the suffering and pain lead people towards God?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the law, but we are so dull-headed that we do not enquire. That is my statement, that you should enquire "Who is forcing these things?" Then there is enquiry of God. First of all we must be... Just like a dog. He cannot understand. He's under chain. He's leading a life most dependent. And he is jolly. He is jumping here and there. That is dog's life. If the master kills him, he cannot do anything. But he is very jolly. He is jumping. That is dog's life. But not human life. Human life is that I am dependent in every step, still I am declaring independent. What is this nonsense? This enquiry should be there. He is dependent in every step, exactly like the cats and dogs, but he is claiming, "I am independent."

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: But what do they know about the soul, about God? First thing is that there is a supreme authority. You are not independent. So if you do not know who is that supreme authority, what is the value of your knowledge? You have to accept there is a supreme authority, because you are not independent. But you do not know. Just like a rascal, he does not know about the government. What kind of man he is? He's a rascal. A civilized man means he knows what is government, what is the history of government. That is civilized. And if he doesn't know what is government, he is simply living there, he's a third class man. So you have to accept there is a government of the whole universal affair, but you do not know it. Then you are third-class man. You are not human being; you are animal. Animal does not know. This is the proof that you are animal, you are not human being. A human being, at least a class of man there must be—brāhmaṇa. Brāhma jānāti iti brāhmaṇaḥ, one who knows how things are going on. We know that. We Kṛṣṇa conscious people, we know. Therefore we are civilized.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa:

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā
kartāham iti manyate
(BG 3.27)

Translation: "The bewildered spirit soul, under the influence of the three modes of material nature, thinks himself to be the doer of activities, which are in actuality carried out by nature."

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is pulled by the ear by the nature, "You rascal, you have associated with this quality. You do this. You must accept this body." That he does not know. "Now you have acted like dog, you accept this body of a dog." This is nature's creation. You cannot say, "No, no, no, I don't want this body." No, you must. "You acted like dog, you take this body of a dog." That he does not know. He is thinking, "I am all in all; I am independent." That is foolishness. The whole world, big, big scientists and philosophers, all in ignorance, and they are being pulled by the ear by nature. That they do not know. What is the purport I have given?

Paramahaṁsa: Purport. "Two persons, one in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and the other in material consciousness, working on the same level, may appear to be working on the same platform, but there is a wide gulf of difference in their respective positions. The person in material consciousness is convinced by false ego that he is the doer of everything. He does not know that the mechanism of the body is produced by material nature, which works under the supervision of the Supreme Lord. The materialistic person has no knowledge that ultimately he is under the control of Kṛṣṇa. The person in false ego takes all credit for doing everything independently, and that is the symptom of his nescience. He does not know that this gross and subtle body is the creation of material nature, under the order of the Supreme Personality of Godhead,..." (end)

Room Conversation with Ganesa dasa's Mother and Sister -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Just like you have got children. You say, according to your knowledge, every children, "My dear children, you do." But it is not necessarily that they will abide by your order. Similarly, God gives the instruction that "You give up all this. You simply surrender to Me. I shall take charge you." But he does not do that. He wants to live independently. Therefore he is suffering.

Mother: But there's so much evil in the world.

Prabhupāda: Avil?

Gaṇeśa: Evil.

Mother: Evil.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is evil. You don't try to carry out the orders of God, this is evil.

Mother: But what I'm trying to say is there's more evil in the world than goodness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless there is evil, why you are in this material world? You have accepted evil. Therefore you are in this material world. And if you accept God, the good, then you are in the spiritual world. You don't accept God; you want evil. Therefore you are in the material world. Just like in the jail, prison house, who are they? They are all criminals. Similarly, every one of us who are within this material world, they are all criminals because they have disobeyed the order of God. In different status only, but they are all criminals. Because every one of them is subjected to the rules of nature: birth, death, old age, and disease. So your child is very intelligent. He has taken to this. Now you can do also the same thing, both mother and daughter.

Discussion -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: ...if there is government laws, if you do not know it and you act independently, then you are making your life risky. So this is the case of the government law, and what to speak of God's law, nature's law, how strict it is. You can avoid government's law, but you cannot avoid nature's law. That is not possible. So that is the defect of the modern civilization: they do not know how nature is working, and they are keeping themself in ignorance, and they are suffering, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), one body after another. And if he becomes a tree, stand up for five thousand years. And we have to pass through all these stages. He has come to the human form of body. Still he neglects. He continues suffering. They are mad after sense enjoyment; and accepting different material bodies, that means suffering. As soon as you accept a material body, this is suffering. But the suffering of the trees is more suffering. In a forlorn place he stand up for five thousand years and tolerate all the blast, wind, scorching heat, water.

Discussion -- May 15, 1975, Perth:
Prabhupāda: He doesn't know that "I may become a tree like this." Then he must be... Why there are varieties of life? This is different type of punishment for different kinds of sinful activities. And he doesn't care for sinful activities. He got the human form of body, he doesn't care. Saintly persons, they are coming as Caitanya Mahāprabhu or Buddha or Christ. They are warning, "You do not do this." No, they will do it. So who is responsible for his sufferings? He is responsible. And so long he has got this short duration of life, fifty or sixty years or utmost hundred years, he is thinking, "I am free. Whatever I want, I can do," and making life risky. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. He is not independent. He knows that. Still, he will declare independence and suffer. This is the position. He is not independent; that he knows very well. But still, he will act independently. Is it not the position? Who can think that he is independent unless he is a madman? Hmm? Are you independent?
Discussion -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Nobody is independent. And still, everyone is thinking independent, "I can do anything I like." Yesterday morning we were talking. You are independent. That is, means, misuse of independence. Just like in a state every citizen is independent but dependent on the state laws. If he forgets that, that "I am not dependent on the state laws," then he is foolish. Similarly, if one does not know that "The nature's law is the God's law, state laws; I cannot violate it," (sic:) then he is sober. Dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). One man is dying. A dhīra knows that he is changing his body; he is not dying. He will get another body. Dhīra, sober. And one who is not sober, he says, "No, life is finished." Or he can imagine he is going to heaven or hell. But a dhīra knows what is going to happen to him. If he was in the material modes of nature, goodness, then he is going to higher planetary system. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti. From śāstra we can understand. If he is in passion, then he will stay in this material world.

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: There must be one. Then it will increase the value. That one, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, will make this material civilization hundred times important. And without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are all zeros. (break) ...next life, supposing hypothetically I am going to be a dog, then what is this civilization? But that you cannot say, "No, I am not going to be dog," because you do not know. You are under the, completely under the grip of material nature. And there are cats and dogs. How you can guarantee that you are not going to be a dog? Kṛṣṇa says, dehāntara-prāptiḥ. You will get another body. So how you can say that "No, I am not going to be a dog"? You cannot say; you are not independent. You cannot make your choice. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). By your work, it will be decided by higher authorities. Then how you can say, "No, no, I am not... There is no life, there is no..." It is all nonsense. Therefore without this knowledge, all this material opulence, it is all zero. It may be some fact for fifty or sixty years, but the world is not for fifty or sixty years, for millions and millions of years. (end)

Room Conversation with Alcohol and Drug Hospital People -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Guest (4): I was just wondering, um, do you believe in...

Prabhupāda: Who is there independently existing without having a father? What is that science?

Guest (2): It's not necessarily in the science itself...

Prabhupāda: No, no, this is a sign, that if there is a man, he must have a father. This is science. So what is your opinion about this science?

Guest (1): I see it as a straight, deductive logic. If there is a...

Prabhupāda: ...son, there must be father. That is science.

Guest (1): Don't you think this kind of reasoning is a deductive logic rather than inductive?

Prabhupāda: No, what is the reasoning yours, that you deny father?

Guest (3): The father must have a father too, mustn't he?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Similarly, there must be supreme father.

Room Conversation with Alcohol and Drug Hospital People -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Nobody is His father. That is God. God is everyone's father, but He is without father. That is God. So long one has got father, he is not God. When you come to the point that here is the person who has no father—He is independent—that is God. The definition of God is given in the Vedic literature.

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ
anādir ādir govindaḥ
sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam
(Bs. 5.1)

Anādi means He has no beginning. But He is the beginning of everything. This is simple definition of God. Anādi... Anādi means He has no beginning. But He is the beginning of everything. Anādir ādir govindaḥ sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1), the cause of all causes.

Morning Walk -- May 17, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. The whole world is rascal. Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is a rascal. Take it for granted. This is the test. That is stated in the Bhāgavata, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). These rascals, they do not know what is his self-interest. He is simply enamored by the external energy and trying to make adjustment of things. Andhā yathāndhair upanīya... He is a rascal, and his leader is also rascal. Te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. These rascals do not know they are bound up, hands and legs, by the laws of nature, and they are making solution, problem. Just like this geographer is making solution and all of a sudden will die. And then another rascal will come into that place to make solution. The problem will remain, and they will come and go. They will come and go. Napoleon came for solution, Hitler came for solution, Gandhi came for solution, but when Napoleon was offered a horse's urine instead of water, he could not make any solution.

When Gandhi was fired to death, he could not make a solution. And they were leaders for solution. What they can do? Every one of them is under strict laws of nature. As nature will do, they will have to submit. And what they will make? They are not independent. Nobody knows where is Hitler. Such a big man, he hid or he killed himself, something done, but nobody knows. And one day he become the master of the whole universe. This is going on.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That's it. So God being all spirit, His energy is also spirit. His energy cannot be different. But in this material energy we forget God. Therefore it is called material. If we know that this wood is also energy of God, that is spiritual understanding. And if we think that wood has come independently from any other source, that is material. In the Vedānta-sūtra this is discussed in the beginning athāto brahma jijñāsā, to inquire about the Absolute Truth. The answer is janmādy asya yataḥ: (SB 1.1.1) "The Absolute Truth is that, or is the source of everything, Absolute Truth." So there are two things, material and spiritual. So both are coming from God. Just like darkness and light, two sides of the sun. So when there is light, we call day; when it is darkness, we call night. But they are simply two sides of the sun, the supreme light, or the material light. Similarly, material is darkness, and spiritual is light. Both sides. Sometime it is said "The spiritual is the front side of God, and material is the back side of God."

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Therefore we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa so that they can hear and take benefit. But they see that, "They are disturbing," but we are helping them.

Jesuit: And do you believe that God is pleased by your prayer and helps them because of your prayer?

Prabhupāda: That depends on God. God is fully independent. He may not like. You cannot force Him. But it is our duty to request Him. You cannot force Him. If He likes... If He does not like, that is His will, because He is the supreme will. But God likes. If a devotee requests Him something, He likes to accept. That is God's mercy. He takes the devotee's prayer very seriously. Therefore our another process is to take the shelter of a devotee first. Because even one is inferior, not to be accept by God, but if a devotee requests, "God, kindly accept this fellow," God accepts. Mercy of saintly... Kṛpā-siddha. The Sanskrit word is kṛpā-siddha. He becomes perfect by the mercy of devotee.

Morning Walk -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: They will take because people are becoming godless. That is the defect. People are becoming hippies, godless. This material world is full of miseries because most people are godless. Here... Material world means avoiding God. That is the sum and substance of material world. They are trying to avoid, becoming independent of God. That is their endeavor. The scientist, the philosopher, the politician—everyone is trying that. Therefore they are suffering. Māyā is there. Just like a criminal, if he says "I don't care for government," the police will take care of. That is certain.

Devotee (4): Śrīla Prabhupāda, if someone has inquired about God, but can be so overpowered by māyā...

Prabhupāda: No, if you are strong, then māyā will not be able to overpower you. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Anyone who is fully surrendered to God, māyā cannot touch him.

Devotee (4): How does one become strong?

Prabhupāda: That we have given. Be strict in following the regulative principle, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Dr. Copeland: Ah, that's why. Ah! Pretty! Are you a brāhmaṇa? By birth you're a brāhmaṇa, right?

Prabhupāda: No. I am brāhmaṇa yes. Yes. But we are not... We do not recognize brāhmaṇa by birth. Brāhmaṇa by these qualities. Anyone who has got... This is the shastric injunction, that if the qualities are found somewhere else—that means one who is not born in a brāhmaṇa family but he has the qualities of the brāhmaṇa—then he should be accepted as a brāhmaṇa. That is shastric injunction. Yasya hi yal lakṣaṇaṁ proktaṁ varṇābhivyañjakam, yad anyatrāpi. Anyatra means elsewhere. Tat tenaiva vinirdiśet (SB 7.11.35). "He should be accepted as such." Similarly, if a man, born in brāhmaṇa family but he has the qualities of the śūdras... Paricaryātmakaṁ kāryaṁ śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Paricarya means service. To accept... (break) So therefore, according to Bhagavad-gītā, nobody is brāhmaṇa. A brāhmaṇa should remain independent. He should live by his qualities. People will honor him. Just like we are training. We do not serve anyone, but we are maintaining big establishment.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:
Prabhupāda: We have got about hundred centers. And we are maintained in Eu..., just like European, American standard, not vagabond standard. But still, we have no fixed income. Depend on Kṛṣṇa. If He wants, He will give us food; if He wants, we shall starve. This is brāhmaṇa, practical. And "Now I have got all degrees, and unless I get a good master, then I am street dog." (Dr. Copeland laughs) That is śūdra. Without getting a master... Just like a street dog has no value unless he gets a good master. Then he can bark (Prabhupāda barks), "Ow! Ow! Ow! Ow! I have got my master." And if he doesn't get a master, nobody cares for it, and he is lean and thin, here going, here going, that's all. This is śūdra. He has no power to live independently. That is śūdra.
Radio Interview -- May 25, 1975, Fiji:
Prabhupāda: And they are big, big educationist. Anyway, there is no such department which deals with the transmigration of the soul. That is the defect of the modern civilization. So there is transmigration of the soul. By evolution, by transmigration of the soul, we have come to this human form of life. Now here we have to decide again. Because we are part and parcel of God, a small particle of the same quality... So God is fully independent. We have got also a little independence. So God does not interfere with our independence. Now here we have to decide which way again we shall go. We have come by the evolution, by nature's way. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Nature has brought us and given us a chance, whether we shall go to our original spiritual life or we shall remain in this material world by changing body one after another. That is to be decided. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is educating people that "Stop your so-called material advancement. You come again, back to home, back to Godhead."
Morning Walk -- May 31, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: That is God's supremacy. "If I don't give you water to drink, you cannot drink." And still, they are independent. Just see the fun. Even water, three-fourths of water, you cannot use a drop of water for drinking unless God gives you. He creates the cloud and give you. That is not your arrangement. You cannot do. Still they are independent. Jale kali-vāsa, nāme tila phyāsa. Sometimes sailors,(?) for being thirsty, they died in water. How they declare independence from Him? "There is no God. There is no authority. We are independent. We can do whatever we like." Childish.

Gurukṛpa: I think it's because they are meat-eaters, all their intelligence is completely gone.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Vina pasughnat: (SB 10.1.4) Unless one is meat-eater, nobody can be disinterested in God's affairs. Only the meat-eaters, vinā paśughnāt, killers of animal. Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt (SB 10.1.4). This glorification of God is especially done by persons who are completely free from material attachment. Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagiyamanad bhavauśādhi (SB 10.1.4). And it is the medicine of getting free from this material bondage. Bhavauśādhi. And it is also very pleasing. Otherwise why they come to hear the Hare Kṛṣṇa? It's such a nice thing. Who does not like it unless he is a killer of animals? So even the killer of animals, they also hear. It is so nice. Only the gross killers, most abominable, they do not hear it.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Siddha-svarūpa: It's like these so many gurus. They're not actually enemies. They're actually individually working to exploit the people. And if they get in each other's way, if one person tries to take the other person's followers, then there's some clash or something. But as long they can leave each other alone and don't fight and work independently, exploiting, then they live peacefully.

Bali-mardana: Honor among thieves.

Prabhupāda: "Thief, thief, cousin brother." Cora cora, pasura bhai. So far our position is that we are not concerned with anything with this universe. We are concerned with Kṛṣṇaloka. So whatever one may say, one other may say, we don't care for that. We are not going to the moon planet, Jupiter(?) planet.

Siddha-svarūpa: There's a danger that we become overly concerned with debating on them.

Harikeśa: So our preaching platform should be is that "You don't know." We can say, "You don't know" or "We don't know. Why shouldn't one accept what we say over what you say?" We should just prove that we...

Prabhupāda: No, accept or not accept, the whatever is description there, in Bhāgavatam, we are accepted.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Gerson: Oh, it is unsuccessful. Yes. I meet many people in the course of my work that are very unhappy because of the frustrations that they experience.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this place is for unhappiness. In the Bhagavad-gītā you will find this place, the material world, has been described as duḥkhālayam. Duḥkhālayam means the place of miseries. So how you... If the place is made for miseries, how you can make this place as full of pleasure, if God made like that? Just like if you are put into the prison house and if you want to live very comfortably, is it possible? Prison house is meant for giving you trouble so that you may be rectified, no more stealing, not to become criminal. It is meant for punishment. Similarly, this whole material world is meant for punishing these criminals who wanted to enjoy independently God's property. They are all criminals. We are worshiping the best nationalist, who is thinking in terms that "This place is mine," philanthropist or political leader. But actually, he is a thief because he is claiming God's property as his own. He is a criminal. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-loka-maheśvaram: "I am the proprietor of all the planets, all the universes." Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām: (BG 5.29) "I am the friend of all living entities." But these people, they are claiming that... The leader is claiming, "I am the friend," and he is claiming, "I am the proprietor." They are, therefore, criminal. He is not friend. Just like your president. He is not friend of the countrymen.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That information we are giving. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). A Kṛṣṇa conscious person, after giving up this material, he is not coming any more with this material body. This is our philosophy. And if you again die and again come another material body, so what is the use of this education? You cannot dictate that "My mother nature, don't make me a dog next life." She is not subjected to your dictation. She is subjected by Kṛṣṇa's dictation. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). She is not your servant, you are servant of the nature. So you are declaring independence, but you are servant of the material nature. That they are not thinking. Unnecessarily they are thinking independence. What is the nonsense independence? You are dependent on the laws of nature, and you are thinking independence. How much foolishness it is. This is psychology. They are wrongly thinking how to correct them. Is it not? Are they not wrongly thinking? Everyone is thinking, "I am independent. I can do whatever I like." How much foolish he is.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Jayatīrtha: Ostrich.

Prabhupāda: Ostrich. When there is danger, it closes eyes: "No danger." But that does not mean no danger. The danger is there. You may close your eyes. This is going on. The whole education system is foolish. Because they are thinking independent.

Bahulāśva: Now we can change that, Śrīla Prabhupāda, with this college. We can get our men in all religious departments.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is our duty, to give them knowledge. The knowledge is there. The candidates are there. Only the guardians should be sane, that "Save the children." Otherwise they will produce only hippies. That's all. (break) So long you will work on the mental plane, then the tendency will be that "Let me refute you, and I become prominent." And he will think that "Let me refute him. I become." This business will go on. But there will be no end of philosophy. So what is the use of such philosophy, simply continually go on mentally speculating, no conclusion? Philosophy means, "Here is the conclusion."

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh, analysis is done nice, of the study.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we want your direction on how to actually do it.

Prabhupāda: Actually our, that you have already mentioned, that "Example is better than precept." Our whole process is following the example of predecessors, nothing independent. So that principle should be followed. We do not accept any precept who is free from the predecessors. Do you follow?

Bahulāśva: Uh huh.

Prabhupāda: Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). This is the secret of devotional service: nothing to do independent. Then it will be all right. (break) ...the particular, specific qualification of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. How they are doing? They have got so many other institutions. So what is the result? The Graduate Theological Union... So I saw so many names. What they are doing?

Dharmādhyakṣa: Well, that's why they want us to join.

Prabhupāda: But we cannot join like that way.

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dharmādhyakṣa: Oh, no. On our own standards.

Bahulāśva: We will be independent of that group. They will not dictate anything to us.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Let him come. I shall talk with him.

Bahulāśva: Dr. Judah now is in a theological convention in Boston, and he'll be getting back on Tuesday. So he said he'll come down then immediately.

Prabhupāda: Regulative principle is the groundwork foundation of everything. Academic career has nothing to do with it. (break) ...bhaktasya kuto mahad guṇā. Anyone who is not factual devotee, his good qualification, academic qualification, has no value.

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) It is jumping of the monkeys. In my book, it was published in 1958. (Hindi conversation) I don't believe all these rascals. Otherwise, how could I write? Later on, in San Francisco some press reporter asked me, "What is your opinion?" And, "This is all foolish waste of time and money." It was published. (break) We are conditioned. We call ourself "conditioned soul." So whatever condition is made by nature or by God, you cannot overcome them. That is futile attempt. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You cannot surpass the condition of material nature. Foolishly, you may declare very great independent. But completely under the grip of material nature. Everything, there is a process. Just like you have come to U.S.A. You have come through a process, immigration. Can anyone come here without going through the process?

Indian guest: No.

Prabhupāda: And how you can go to the moon planet? Independently, without going through the process. (break) ...nineteen hundred fifty-eight, I said, "This is all childish." So I am not a scientist. How did I say? On what standing?

Indian guest: There is a difference in nomenclature. Just to resolve the conflict in my mind and (Hindi conversation).

Brahmānanda: You said it was a waste of time, and now they have stopped. They are doing it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So how I predicted? I am not a scientist. How did I say it?

Bahulāśva: On the strength of Bhagavad-gītā.

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Our endeavor is just to become a dog of a Vaiṣṇava, not to become an animal like lion. We remain a dog, but of a Vaiṣṇava. And we refuse to become a big animal like lion. This is our philosophy. Another song is Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's, janmaobi jadi icchā to hara, kīṭa-janma hau jaha das bhakta tuṅhara: "I do not know what is my next life. That depends on Your consideration. But if you think that I must take another birth or another many births, it doesn't matter. Only I request You that You make me an insignificant ant in the house of a devotee." Kīṭa-janma hau jaha das tuṅhara. This is Vaiṣṇava aspiration, that If become an ant under the protection of a Vaiṣṇava, that is also successful. And I don't want to become a Brahmā who is not a devotee." So this Vaiṣṇava philosophy is very accurate. Therefore this life of a Vaiṣṇava begins with surrender, not the challenge. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That is Vaiṣṇava. Christ also said that "Kingdom of God is for the humble and meek." Is it not? He never said it is for the lion and elephant. The material disease means we have challenged Kṛṣṇa, God, "Oh, what is God? We can live independently." And that is material scientist. They are trying to prove, "There is no God. We can create everything in the laboratory." And that is their foolishness.
Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Tendency means the independence. So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). "Now you do whatever you like."

Jayatīrtha: Because Kṛṣṇa is independent, therefore the part and parcels...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Part and parcel must have a little portion of independence. Qualitatively, part and parcel means... Just like you take a drop of water from the sea. The, all the chemical composition is there in the drop. So Kṛṣṇa is fully independent. So we living entities we are drop. Still, the independence quality is there in minute quantity.

Dr. John Mize: But Kṛṣṇa has no tendency to fall, whereas we do.

Prabhupāda: No. Because Kṛṣṇa is God. Therefore He is all good. Even He falls down, to our estimation, it is not fall down. (break) ...cannot judge God. If we are devotee, in all circumstances we shall glorify God, "You are all-good." That is devotee. You cannot criticize God, "Oh, You are doing such thing," no.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Jayatīrtha: Philosophers generally try to use their mind to speculate about the nature of the soul. But with the mind they can never understand...

Prabhupāda: Just like the madman is speculating. He is thinking, "I am president. Bas, finished." He is lying down on the street, "Oh, I am completely independent. Why shall I go on the foot path?"

John Mize: When the soul was in the spiritual sky, it also had a mind and an intelligence like here?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Yes. Unless he has got mind, how he misuses intelligence?

John Mize: But he misused that intelligence in his freedom, his independence.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Mind is there also. That is spiritual mind. Everything is spiritual. There is nothing material. Body spiritual, mind spiritual, intelligence spiritual, he is spiritual, the land spiritual, water spiritual—everything is spiritual. That is spiritual world. Here in the material world, except the spirit soul, everything is material. And he is encumbered with this material atmosphere by twenty-seven stratas, layers. The five elements, gross elements, then ten senses, and then three guṇas... In this way there are twenty-seven layers. He is within, and he has to be taken out. That is called liberation. Just like if you are covered with twenty-seven layers of dirty things, so it is very difficult position. But there is process to clear the garbage and take him out. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious movement, to take the soul out of the covering of twenty-seven layers of material atmosphere. That śloka is naṣṭa-prāyeṣu abhadreṣu: "almost cleansed." Abhadra, abhadra means dirty things. So this clearing process going on.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: By the material life, these are our field of activities. The body is a combination of all these things. Just like a huge computer machine. It is made of these material things, but the mechanical parts are very minute, different. All these are matter. But within this matter, because the soul is there, therefore the finest machine is working. Just like your composition machine, (imitates machine:) "Kut, kut, kut, kut, kut, kut." But one has to push the button; otherwise useless. However very nicely made the machine, without a living being's touch, it is useless. So all this big machine, body, is wonderful so long the soul is there. And as soon as the soul is out it is lump of matter, useless, not worth a penny. Throw it away. So we are giving importance to the machine, not to the person who is dealing with the machine. This is the folly of modern civilization. We are thinking like child, "The machine is working independently." But that is not the fact. The big airship, 747, is flying because the pilot is there, and the pilot is a soul, covered by another bodily machine. And that, that is missing point in the modern civilization, that who is working with the machine. That they do not know. That is ignorance.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

John Mize: They think there's a mind, but not a soul.

Prabhupāda: No, that's all right. Something is there which is working. Now that may be mistake. You call it soul or mind. That is next understanding. But the machine is not working independently. That should be understood first. Then how the machine is working that will be next chapter. So they have no understanding even that how the machine is working. Mūḍhā nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). That they do not know, mūḍhas. So if you do not know how the machine is working then what is the value of your education? Education means enlightenment. You do not know what is the final cause, that huge body is working as nature, so many planets, so many big, big planets like sun, moon, they are floating in the air. Who has made this arrangement? They are... We see every day. They will never accept God is the original cause. That thing does not come to their brain. They are putting forward different theories and that is being accepted. One theory is accepted today, and tomorrow, "No, no, this is not. Here is another, advanced theory." That advanced means he does not know.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Where he is?

Bahulāśva: He'll be arriving tomorrow night. He just got in from Boston and he wanted one day to rest a little bit, and then he'll be coming tomorrow night. He'll probably get here around seven o'clock and then he'll come on the walk in the morning and then you can, as you like, you can speak with him that day. He has spoke already with the publisher, the Wiley Company and he is getting permission that you wanted him to publish some part of his book, that preface. So he is getting permission from them to do that. He also... I was speaking with him. He also said that if you wanted, he would write more different things supporting our movement. Some little thing to print, like some little book, like we had "The Scientific Basis," he could write some little things independently and we could print whatever you like. He is very eager to help.

Rāmeśvara: You mean like a foreword?

Bahulāśva: Whatever you like.

Rāmeśvara: He could print some foreword and it would be inserted in our book?

Bahulāśva: He said he'll write whatever Prabhupāda wants. He is surrendered.

Prabhupāda: Learned scholars, philosophers, they should understand the importance of this movement and how it is beneficial. They are suffering for want of knowledge of the spirit soul. They are keeping themselves in the animal platform with their so-called education, but unless there is spiritual understanding, the education has no value. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇa mano-rathena asato dhavato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). He will remain on the mental platform. And mind is now materially contaminated. So even if he remains in the mental platform, he remains in the material platform. He cannot make any improvement. One has to come to the spiritual platform. That is required.

Morning Walk -- July 2, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: Why within? Another body you cannot see. Not within—without. Another body supplied.

Ambarīṣa: Sometimes when people are put into a dangerous situation, they acquire extraordinary strength, just like that, that they never had before. So it's like they...

Prabhupāda: No, no. You must expect according to your quality. Just like if Kṛṣṇa wants, He can make something else. But you are not independent. You are dependent on nature, and your position is very insignificant. But Kṛṣṇa can, as soon as He wishes—immediately done. Parasya śaktir vividhaiva. Just like in Bible it is said, "God said, 'Let there be creation.' There was creation immediately." But you cannot do that. But if you... Whatever you are desiring, nature is supplying you. Kṛṣṇa is also being supplied by nature, that is spiritual nature. And you are also being supplied by the material nature. So both nature is working. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ, ahaṅkāra... (BG 3.27). Each stage is a different form. That is going on.

Morning Walk -- July 3, 1975, Denver:

Kuruśreṣṭha: Once one performs devotional service then he can't get away from Kṛṣṇa. Can he still get away? It seems like...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that option is always, because you are independent.

Kuruśreṣṭha: I see with myself that if I try to get away a little bit, He beats me so much that I have to come back.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is special favor.

Yadubara: So Kṛṣṇa is directly controlling that?

Prabhupāda: Yes. When He sees, "That fool wants Me, at the same time, material world. So take his material possession, everything, so that he will want only Me, that's all." Actually, it was done to me. (laughs) I have got practical experience. I did not want to take sannyāsa. I thought that I shall do business. And Kṛṣṇa forced me to take sannyāsa and all, everything, dismantled.

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Paricaryātmakaṁ karma śūdrasyāpi svabhāva-jam.

Prabhupāda: And to serve under somebody, that is śūdra. So at the present moment people are being educated to serve under somebody. Technology, one is very expert in some particular line of technology, say, computer machine... You know how to operate. It is a big qualification. But unless he gets a job under some big establishment, he is useless. He cannot live independently. The first-class man will live independently. The second-class man also will live independently. And the third-class men, they will also live independently. And those who cannot live independently, they are fourth-class men. So at the present moment we are simply creating fourth-class men. So fourth-class men, they are prone to be degraded. If you don't raise them to become first-class, they must degrade. So that is the position of the present civilization. They are creating all fourth-class men, and gradually they are degrading. So now you should take up very seriously how you can create some first-class men. First-class, second-class, third-class also. If you simply remain in the fourth grade, technology... Technology means he has to serve under somebody. This industry, that is also the same thing. Hundreds and thousands of men are working. They are fourth-class men. And śūdra. Just like formerly in Indian village... Still there are. They are self-supported. Suppose there is a blacksmith. If you require some black iron instrument, you go there and he will prepare immediately. Say, an oil crusher, extracting oil. So weaver, self-supported.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: But because women are less intelligent, they should remain dependent on first-class father, first-class husband, and first-class son. Then she is first-class. That is the injunction. Woman should remain dependent in childhood upon first-class father, in youthhood upon first-class husband, and in old age upon first-class son. Woman is never independent. If she becomes independent, her life is not very good. She must agree to remain dependent on first-class father, first-class husband, and first-class son-three stages.

Mrs. Wax: She must become dependent on her son because her husband would ideally become a sannyāsī. Is that...?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You will find that Kapiladeva is instructing mother. That picture you can show her. Third Canto? You see the picture in the cover? The first-class son is instructing mother. Her husband has taken sannyāsa and gone away. The son, first-class son, is instructing mother. That is the book. You will find full instruction to the mother. You can read one of the passages. You can read, Nitāi, what He is instructing to His mother. The mother is questioning, and son is answering.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Guest: ...here in America they are fighting to become independent. And also abortion. They are fighting that the abortion should be there. Now this your message, is conveyed through the reporters and I would like the reporter to assess the reaction from the masses here, whether Gurukula is sponsoring for the women liberation and equal rights...

Prabhupāda: No, no, you are asking solution of the question who is already in darkness. You should take instruction from Bhagavad-gītā. You are asking women who are supposed to be dependent, and you are asking question from them. To answer will not be from them. The answer, the standard answer, you have to take from the book of knowledge, Bhagavad-gītā. Then the answer will be perfect.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Jayatīrtha: So the wars and the crime are a direct result of the cow slaughter.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. It is a wholesale reaction. All these crises are taking place. They are killing their own child. Own child means that child is criminal; therefore it is being killed within the womb. Nature will take action. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). You are not independent. So if you work independently, then you will have to suffer. The law of nature is there. You cannot avoid it. If you infect some disease, you must suffer from the disease. You cannot avoid it. This is the law of nature. Law of nature is working in such a way that as you are infecting... Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. Find out this verse. Why there are varieties of life. One is tree, one is cat, one is dog, one is human being, one is blind, one is lame, one is educated, one is foolish—why? Why the difference, varieties? And that is answered in the Bhagavad-gītā, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya: "As you are infecting the modes of material nature, you are getting your birth." Otherwise, how you can explain by nature there are so many varieties of life, 8,400,000 species of life?

Jayatīrtha: You mentioned several times that those persons who are guilty of abortion, then they also enter a womb, but they never leave it alive. They're also killed within the womb.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That means... That child is killed means it must take another birth. Again in the womb it will be killed. Again another womb. This is going on. Mūḍha janmani janmani (BG 16.20). It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, "Birth after birth they will be put into the darkness of life."

Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: First of all try to understand that you depend. The... After man and woman unite, there is children, and the man goes away, and you are embarrassed. The woman is embarrassed. Why? Why this is, is made possible? A man and woman unites, and the woman becomes pregnant, and the husband goes away. Then the poor woman is embarrassed with the child. She has to beg from the government. So do you think it is very nice thing? The Vedic idea is that woman should be married to a man and the man should take charge of the woman and the children independently so that they do not become a burden to the government or to the public.

Woman reporter: Do you think the social unrest...

Prabhupāda: I am thinking like this. You give me the answer. Simply you go on questioning. I question you, do you think this burden to the government or the public is good?

Woman reporter: I don't understand what you're saying.

Nitāi: Do you think that the burden caused when the husband goes away from the wife, that burden to the government is good?

Woman reporter: No.

Prabhupāda: So that has happened. Because the woman does not agree to be subordinate—she wants equal freedom—so the husband goes away and the woman is embarrassed with the children. And it becomes a burden to the government.

Room Conversation after Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: But how they will be liberated on this point? First of all let me know.

Jagadīśa: They're simply crazy.

Harikeśa: They may bring up the argument that they are not concerned that they have to bear children just as long as they can be superior.

Prabhupāda: Oh. This argument is like: "You go on beating me with shoes; still I am independent. I don't mind you are beating me with shoes, but I am independent." It is the argument like that.

Devotee (1): There were supposed to be some aldermen here, but one of them was a woman and it has been on the news already about what you've said and she doesn't want to come now.

Prabhupāda: Alderman?

Brahmānanda: They're like city council men. But in this case it's a city councilwoman. So she has refused to come because the comment... There has been a lot of publicity created. (laughter) So they are speaking on the radio that "The Swamiji has come to solve all the problems by saying that woman is inferior to men."

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's a fact. (laughter) So what the man says?

Harikeśa: They are being quiet. They are too afraid to say.

Prabhupāda: That means they are accepting. When they are quiet... Quiet means... Maunaṁ śammati lakṣaṇam. If there is some argument and you remain quiet that means indirectly you accept.

Room Conversation after Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Jagadīśa: Chewing the chewed.

Prabhupāda: Both of them suffer. But irresponsible father avoids, then the both suffering comes on the woman. She suffers the pain, birth pain, and suffers to raise the children. And the man goes away. How they are going to solve this problem? What is their answer? They become dependent on the man during sex life and purchases the pain, birth pain, and accuses the husband. And then, when the child is born she has to take care. The father may go away. The mother cannot give up the care of the children. Out of affection, she is carrying two child. So these are the aftereffects. So can the woman avoid sex, which is entailed with so much sufferings? She submits. Where is the independent woman? Therefore, if one is spiritually advanced, then she becomes.

Room Conversation after Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: But if he accepts Lord Śiva is devotee of Kṛṣṇa, then by worshiping Lord Śiva he will be benefited. If he thinks Lord Śiva is independent, then he will not be benefited.

Devotee (3): I've got him to accept that Lord Śiva is devotee of Kṛṣṇa, but there's no practical instruction in his worldly activities coming.

Prabhupāda: No, vaiṣṇavānām yathā śambhuḥ: "Amongst the Vaiṣṇavas, Śaṁbhu, Lord Śiva, is the greatest Vaiṣṇava." So we worship Lord Śiva as Vaiṣṇava. We gives respect to Vaiṣṇavas. So why not Lord Śiva? Lord Śiva is a big Vaiṣṇava. But generally, the devotees of Lord Śiva, they take Lord Śiva is independent God. That is offensive. If you know that Lord Śiva is also a devotee, you can give more respect to Lord Śiva. Kṛṣṇa will be pleased.

Devotee (3): Śrīla Prabhupāda, he does not chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, he chants oṁ śivāya namaḥ.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Do you think it is very good business?

Woman: I think this is a very complicated question.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say they are cheating you in the name of independence. That you do not understand. Therefore 34 ounce. They are cheating you, and you are thinking you are independent.

Sandy Nixon: They forget the responsibility that comes with freedom.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they do not take the responsibility. They go away. They enjoy and go away. And the woman has to take the responsibility, either kill the child or maintainer, begging. Do you think begging is very good? In India, although they are poverty-stricken, still, they do not remain independent. They remain under the husband, and the husband takes all responsibility. So she has neither to kill the child nor go to beg for maintaining the child. So which is independence? to remain under husband is independence or to become free to be enjoyed by everyone?

Sandy Nixon: That's not where the freedom is anyway.

Prabhupāda: So there is no freedom; still, they think that they have freedom. That means under some plea, the men are cheating the women, that's all. So in the name of independence, they have agreed to be cheated by another class. This is the situation.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: We give Kṛṣṇa consciousness both to the woman and man equally. We do not make any such distinction. But to protect them from this exploitation by man, we teach something, that "You do like this. You do like that. You be married. Be settled up. Don't wander independently." We teach them like that. But so far Kṛṣṇa consciousness is concerned, we equally distribute. There is no such thing that "Oh, you are woman, less intelligent or more intelligent. Therefore you cannot come." We don't say that. We welcome women, men, poor, rich, everyone, because in that platform equality.

vidyā-vinaya-sampanne
brāhmaṇe gavi hastini
śuni caiva śvapāke ca
paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ
(BG 5.18)

We do not refuse anyone. That is equality.

Sandy Nixon: How do you deal with negativity? In the outside world do... The devotees encounter negativity every day, people that are not interested. How, not just on the outside world, but how does one deal with that within, how does one relieve oneself of that negativism?

Prabhupāda: Negativity means... Just like we say, "No illicit sex." We say, we teach our students, "No illicit sex." Do you think it is negative? What does she mean by...?

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Suppose you have written some letter to somebody, and he cannot understand. So if he consults somebody, that "What he has written?" Then that man must be your confidential person, who can understand your language. Even if I cannot understand what you have written, then I have to consult a person who understands you. But I cannot give my independent interpretation. That is not good. That is foolishness. But that is going on. They are thinking, "I am a big scholar. I can give my own interpretation." That is wrong.

Father: That's the reason for a lot of confusion.

Jayatīrtha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: They must create confusion because he is a foolish man. He is interpreting on the words of God. He is not a devotee. He has got other purposes as a politician or something else. So he wants to push on his views through Bhagavad-gītā. That is a cheating process. If he wants to speak something, he can write separate book. Why he should go through Bhagavad-gītā? That is cheating. But he knows, "Bhagavad-gītā is very popular book. If I push my philosophy through Bhagavad-gītā, it will be very easily accepted." That is going on. That is cheating. Why should you interpret? Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mād-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). And the scholar says, "No, no, it is not to Kṛṣṇa." Just see. Kṛṣṇa says that "You become My devotee." And the scholar says, "No, no, it is not necessary to become devotee of Kṛṣṇa person." This is going on, big scholar.

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1975, Philadelphia:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But science tries to understand what is life and in order to do that they just want to understand what is cell. Because science tries to understand what is life, and in order to do that they just want to study what is the cell because cells are the smallest living units of life. That is their understanding. So once they understand what a cell is, then they know what life is. That is their aim. So if the cells and the jīvātmā within the heart, they are different and they are independent, then they cannot conceive of just having a jīvātmā in the heart.

Prabhupāda: That... The particular jīvātmā who has been given this body, he is living in the heart.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: But according to the scientists, our body is made up of little cells just like a brick wall is made up of so many individual bricks. Each... Like in one piece of skin there is...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is body. Just like I live in a house. The house is made of so many bricks. But I am not brick.

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: The jīvātmā... If the cells are living entities, then why do they not remain? Just like other living entities, they remain in the body and they come out. Even the man who has died, he is not there, but the other living entities are there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So it seems that the cells are not independent. They are somehow controlled by the jīvātmā or the... Of course, Paramātmā is controlling everything. But I know sometimes the cells that compose the body of a living body, it seems that they are not independent; they are dependent.

Prabhupāda: That may be. But what about your cultivating living entities from the cells?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, that can be done. That they have already done.

Prabhupāda: "That can be done," you say everything. But you never done.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: They call it... You know that? They call it cloning?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Cloning is a different process, though. Cloning is just they take the life from the genes from different species and put this together and form a new species called hybrids of some living entity.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: The scientists say that the cells reproduce not by mating but by splitting in half...

Prabhupāda: That is possible.

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Why you are forced?

Devotee (4): Because of conditioning.

Prabhupāda: Then that you have to admit that you are conditioned by some authority. When you are put into jail, you cannot act independently. You have to act according to the jail superintendent's order.

Devotee (3): Prabhupāda, is our desire to be eternal, blissful and full of knowledge...

Prabhupāda: Now let me finish. You will never be able to understand if you jump over like that. Let one thing be understood.

Devotee (4): So he admits he's conditioned, but still, there's no free will. He says, "Yeah, so I'm in the prison. I'm imprisoned. I'm conditioned."

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Free will... Just like a man commits theft by his free will. But when he is put into jail, then no more free will. He has to act according to the jail superintendent. But his beginning of jail life is free will. Nobody asked him that "You go to jail." But why he has come? He knows also that "When I am put into jail, I will lose all my freedom." He knows that. Still, he comes. Why does he come? He knows that. That is called ajñāna. Mūḍha. That is called mūḍha. He knows; still, he does.

Morning Walk -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Then why you are so much proud of having all the knowledge? Then you admit that you are a rascal. You have no... You are dependent, and you are trying to be independent. That is not being possible, therefore you are rascal. Your education has no meaning because you are dependent and you are trying to be independent.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Most professors nowadays, they will admit that they have no absolute knowledge, that everything they know is relative and that there might be something much better than what they are teaching.

Prabhupāda: There might... There is. But you rascal, you do not take it. That is your fault. There is, not "There might be." Here is Bhagavad-gītā. (break) ...Bhagavad-gītā it is said, etat jñānam: "This is knowledge, and all other things, they are not knowledge." Etat jñānam.

Morning Walk -- July 17, 1975, San Francisco:

Bahulāśva: Now the scientists are studying the atom, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and they agree...

Prabhupāda: No, first of all let us know what they have done. What science they have done. They are proposing all nonsense theories, that nature is producing. So even if you accept nature as supreme, then you are subordinate. You are not independent. You are under... That also I explained. Pṛakrteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ, ahaṅkāra vimu... (BG 3.27). Why you are thinking independent? You are being carried away by the ear, pulling, "Come here." You are thinking there is no birth, but there is birth. Every moment you are having a new life, new birth by the... You can say, "I will not become old man," but prakṛti will not allow you. You must become old man. You can say, "I will not die." You must die. So you are so dependent. Even if you accept only prakṛti, no father, you are a fatherless child, that's all right, but even the mother... You have to accept the authority of the mother. Where is your independence? You are thinking foolishly.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Satsvarūpa: Purport. "Two persons, one in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and the other in material consciousness, working on the same level, may appear to be working on the same platform, but there is a wide gulf of difference in their respective positions. The person in material consciousness is convinced by false ego that he is the doer of everything. He does not know that the mechanism of the body is produced by material nature, which works under the supervision of the Supreme Lord. The materialistic person has no knowledge that ultimately he is under the control of Kṛṣṇa. The person in false ego takes all credit for doing everything independently, and that is the symptom of his nescience. He does not know that this gross and subtle body is the creation of material nature, under the order of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and as such his bodily and mental activities should be engaged in the service of Kṛṣṇa, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The ignorant man forgets that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is known as Hṛṣīkeśa, or the master of the senses of the material body, for due to his long misuse of the senses in sense gratification, he is factually bewildered by the false ego, which makes him forget his eternal relationship with Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: So this is false ego, to think of oneself as free. You are professor of economics?

Mr. Surface: Yes.

Prabhupāda: I think I may remember. There is economist professor, Marshall? Marshall's economics?

Mr. Surface: Yes.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: Ass. Mūḍho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ paramaṁ mama.

Nityānanda: The householders on our farm, they should cooperate and produce the food centrally or every householder should produce his own food independently?

Prabhupāda: No. Why they are living in a community centrally? Community means work everything for the community.

Devotee (1): Some men can cultivate the fields, some men can take care of the cows, some men... They can (indistinct) responsible.

Prabhupāda: No, it is service (?).

Upendra: One question I have, Prabhupāda... When I heard about New Vrindaban... I've not been there myself, so I cannot say firsthand, but I've talked with devotees have been there.

Prabhupāda: Near.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1975, Bombay:

Lalitā: What you say, you act according to that.

Prabhupāda: No, what I learn from Kṛṣṇa I say. I don't say independently. That is not my business. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction. (break) How? Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). You deliver your village people and become a guru. Everyone is not going to be so big that he can go all over the world. But everyone can teach within his limit, within his family, within his community, within his village, within his town, within his district. As he is capable, he can increase. But everyone can become a guru and deliver the local people. How? Yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Then you are guru. As soon as you manufacture anything nonsense, then it is spoiled. That is going on. So many gurus are there; they are manufacturing. They are becoming Kṛṣṇa. That is nonsense. That is nonsense. You cannot become Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). Bhagavān sakala hṛdaya... (break) Can you stay in everyone's heart? You are claiming God. This one instance. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛdeśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati. He is aṇḍāntara-sthaṁ-paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ. He is within this universe, and He is within the atom. You are claiming to be Īśvara, God. Are you within the atom? Are you within everyone's heart? Then how do you claim that you are Īśvara? Practical. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ (BG 18.61). Īśvara, God, God is everyone's heart. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭhaḥ (BG 15.15). (Bengali) ...on the basis of Bhagavad-gītā... (Bengali) And as soon as you manufacture something, then it is spoiled. (Bengali) That is going on. The so-called gurus, they get some mystic power, yoga-siddhi, and they show it and they mislead people that he is God. That is the difficulty. We never said... Where is that book? (Bengali) ...gurus. Again he has to go? (Bengali) So far as I am concerned, these things are not there. About me, I am... In Dallas I am taking one child's hand and I am teaching them how to write "a," "a." (Bengali) Where is that professors?

Brahmānanda: Professor...

Prabhupāda: No, all these professors. Those who are purchasing our books.

Morning Walk -- August 24, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Why not begin immediately?

Jayapatāka: Yes.

Bhāgavata: Also that other man approached, that farm person?

Jayapatāka: Of course, that... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...self-independent, or self dependent.

Bhāgavata: If we build up enough trade, tourist trade, like that in the guesthouse, then Māyāpur can maintain itself very easily.

Prabhupāda: So do it. (break) ...of the modern civilization, they are thinking that having such nice house, nice motorcar, nice road, nice machine, nice dress, nice woman, they will be happy. This is advancement of civilization. What is this? Don't drink, don't smoke, no meat, simply denying, denying? This is civilization. They think "This is practical. And after death who is going to take care?" Bhasmī-bhutasya dehasya kutaḥ punar-āgamano bhavet: "When the body is finished, burning into ashes, who is coming, and who is responsible?" This is atheistic civilization. (break) ...artha-maninaḥ. External energy, that is everything. Within the body there is the soul. They deny it. There is no soul, body is everything, and enjoy bodily enjoyment. That's all. And our philosophy immediately condemns that "Anyone who is in the bodily concept of life, he is sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13); he is animal." So this is a park?

Indian man: A small park.

Morning Walk -- September 3, 1975, Vrndavana:

Dhanañjaya: (break) ...isn't self-sufficiency...

Prabhupāda: Self-suff... There is no self-sufficiency. Self-insufficiency. Always remember that. Unless you become perfect in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no self-sufficiency. All self-insufficiency. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) So you give me a description, what he is doing. (break) ...thinking, "I am independent," but he is kicked by his mind every moment. This is his independence—"Go there. Come here. Do this. Do that." The mind is dictating, and he is thinking, "I am independent." This is the position of conditioned soul. Therefore he is called conditioned. He is conditioned by the mind, and he is thinking "independent." Mūḍha. Therefore mūḍha. Tri-guṇamayair bhāvaiḥ mohitaḥ. He is illusioned by the three modes of material nature, and he does not know Kṛṣṇa, and he is thinking "independent."

Trivikrama: The mind is cheating us.

Prabhupāda: Certainly he'll cheat. If you cannot control, it will cheat. Mind is the friend, and mind is the enemy. If you become Kṛṣṇa conscious fully, then mind is friend. And if you do not become Kṛṣṇa conscious, mind is enemy. māyā is also. If you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then she is Rādhārāṇī. And if he is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, she is Durga.

Morning Walk -- September 29, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: But you cannot see them. Your philosophy is unless you see, you don't believe. That is your philosophy. But you do not consider what you can see. That is the defect of this imperfect world, that people do not think that they are imperfect. With all imperfectness, they think they are perfect. That is the defect. Therefore it is said, andha. One is blind, and he is becoming the leader of other blind men. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Īśa-tantrya, by the laws of nature he is bound up very tight, hands and legs, and he is thinking he is free to think, free to see, free to... That is the defect. He is not at all free, completely under the clutches of material laws, and he is thinking that he is free. That is the defect. And when this sense comes, that "I am not free; everything is forced upon me," then he becomes human being. Otherwise he's a dog. Just like, you see, if a dog thinks he is free. He is jumping here, there. He is thinking, "I am independent," barking, attacking somebody. Oh, he is thinking he is free to do everything. When one comes to this sense, that he is not free, that is beginning of human life. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Then the question will be that "Why I am not free? What is the reason?" Then that is... Real human life begins. Otherwise he's a dog. Is it correct or not? What do you think? If one is not free and wrongly thinks that he is free, then what is that mentality? A doggish mentality. And if I say, "Yes, you are free. You can think in any way you like. That is correct," then you become more encouraged to become, to remain a fool, to continue. That's all. So we shall go now? That is the defective part of modern civilization. Everyone is thinking, "I am free." Is it not? Everyone.

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: This is going on. Still, even the opposite party, they are not disgusted—"This material life is not very peaceful." They are not disgusted.

Brahmānanda: Now they are thinking, "We'll be independent..."

Prabhupāda: Yes. That... They are trying to be independent. And India... Just like India has got independent, and now the position is "emergency." They do not think in this way, that "Independence or dependence, we are actually dependent under the laws of nature." That they do not think. They are thinking... The same example as I gave, that "This boil is here. Why not here? It is very painful," like that. They have no sense that so-called dependence or independence, he has to suffer. That he does not know. Mūḍha nābhijānāti.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa explains, vāsudeva sarvam iti, that He is everything and that He is everywhere.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be. That is another thing. That is another question. But you have to accept some superior authority. As soon as you accept fate, destiny, then you have to accept superior authority.

Cyavana: They also say "nature." They say "by nature."

Prabhupāda: Whatever it... Whatever it may be. You have to accept some superior authority. That means you are not independent. You are under the control of the superior authority.

Harikeśa: Time. Time is...

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be. You call by any name. That is another thing.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: These bodies are a reaction, effect, isn't it? These bodies are an effect.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So then death also must be some effect.

Prabhupāda: So who has made this law, cause and effect? Some way or other, you have to accept that you are not independent.

Room Conversation -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Just we are doing so many places. So you produce your own food grains, not for making money but just for feeding yourself and the animals, cows. Keep cows, as many cows as possible, and produce, till the ground, field, and make water supply arrangement. If the investment is required, we shall do that. You have no worry about investment. We shall bring money from anywhere. But the work must be done very nicely. There must be good arrangement for water supply and for plowing and keeping the cows in order. Then you get sufficient milk, sufficient food grains and produce your own cloth. The girls and ladies, they can spine (spin) thread, and from the thread you make cloth, handlooms. So your first necessities of life, eating, and make little cottage, sleeping... And if you want sex, get yourself married, live peacefully. And when you are there you can defend yourself. So the first necessity is how to eat and how to cover. That you have to provide. That is not difficult. You can do it. And then you become peaceful, no anxiety for your maintenance. And then cultivate this spiritual knowledge the same way. Have a temple there. Have... Go on chanting, offering prasādam. You have got your food grains. Don't be dependent on anyone else. Become self-independent. And don't be after money. Simply produce your bare necessities of life. Keep yourself fit, strong. And chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, read book. Then you'll grow strong. Is there any difficulty?

Guest (1): No, Swamijī.

Morning Walk -- October 6, 1975, Durban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They would make the people dependent upon them and then exploit them, yes?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the fault. Exploitation was their policy. Whole European, the France, Holland—go some other country and exploit. They were doing the same thing in America also. Therefore America rebelled. Washington was Englishman. Still, he rebelled. He separated. Independent. A small country and bring money from the whole world—this is their bad policy.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's actually amazing how they colonized.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It was actually amazing to think how they colonized almost...

Prabhupāda: They were obliged to do that. In the country there is no food, no shelter, nothing. Therefore Hitler's determination was, "I shall make this shopkeeper nation again fishers." What is called? Fishermen. "I shall ruin their empire." So he did it. But he also became ruined. He did it. He ruined the Englishmen, but he also became ruined, finished, Germany finished. But Germany will be able to rise again. Englishmen will not be able to.

Morning Walk -- October 12, 1975, Durban:

Indian man (2): If we follow the Kṛṣṇa conscious path... Now, take for example our wedding ceremonies. Now, the first thing that we take, the Ganapati, there is Ganasyainava(?), and there is various other deities that we have to respect. Now, what happens in his case?

Prabhupāda: If you are actually Kṛṣṇa conscious, then to worship Ganapati, there is no harm. But if you take Ganapati as independent God, then your Kṛṣṇa consciousness is hampered.

Indian man (2): But in certain ceremonies these things are...

Prabhupāda: Any ceremony. If you know the constable is constable and the president is president, then it is all right. But if you think constable is president, then you are misguided.

Woman: (Hindi exchange with Prabhupāda and other Indians)

Indian man (3): (break) ...this country, what do you think is the best way of establishing the āśrama, or the centers, and which way we can help in this matter?

Prabhupāda: We have got so many āśramas. You can see how we are doing. We have got hundred and two temples all over the world. You come to India?

Indian man (3): Yes, I have been to India.

Room Conversation with Reporter of The Star -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: (break) You have done good because you are waiting for somebody's decision. So the decision-maker can change. Otherwise so many people are working so hard day and night; he is not getting even sufficient food. And another man, without working, he is getting so much money. How it is possible? Hm? So God is not an instrument of your whims. He is fully independent. That is God. Agatan gatan patiyase.(?) By His different energy He can..., does something which is impossible to be done. Take for example myself. I went to United States, unknown country, without any friend, without any hope, simply on theory (chuckles) that "I shall go and preach there," and with this expectation also, that "As soon as I shall ask them to give up all these habits, they will ask me to go away." (laughs) So in the face of so many odds and uncertainty, I went there, simply depending on my spiritual master and Kṛṣṇa, with this hope only, that "If they desire, everything can be done. But otherwise there is no hope. I am going there, hopeless, just to make an experiment. My other Godbrothers, they failed. All right, Guru Mahārāja asked me. In the beginning I did not do. Let me do it in this old age." So it became surprisingly success. Business started with forty rupees, and now we have got four crores. Where is that business in the material world, that a man started business with forty rupees and he has got four crores within ten years? Not only money, but also fame, respect. What do these kings and president or minister get respect?

Morning Walk -- October 25, 1975, Mauritius:

Brahmānanda: They were making one joke that on the independence day of America everyone goes out in their car and celebrates. They were making a joke that more people will die by the celebration than died in the original battle of getting the independence. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Just see their intelligence. Andha yathāndhair upaniyamanas te 'pisa-tantryam uru-damni baddhaḥ (SB 7.5.31). By nature's law they are bound up hands and legs, and still, they are trying to do something independently. That is their fault.

Indian man: Don't you think that the scientists have done good things but people have...

Prabhupāda: What is that good thing, first of all say.

Indian man: For example, they have invented medicines like the...

Prabhupāda: But have they stopped disease?

Indian man: But...

Prabhupāda: Now, no "but." First of all, they have got medicine for making money, but have they stopped disease?

Indian man: To some extent.

Morning Walk -- October 28, 1975, Nairobi:
Prabhupāda: So you have to say that "You are the greatest intelligent man, sādhu, most honored. The only request is that you forget what you have learned. That's all. And take this." In this way preaching practical. Otherwise it is not possible. Everyone is thinking he is the most exalted personality, scientist, philosopher, great man. That is material disease. Actually he is being kicked every moment by the urges of the senses, and he is thinking he is very great man. Go-dāsa. Go means senses. He is always, I mean, curbed down by the sense urges, and he is thinking, "independent." Independent means servant of the senses. This is going on. So you have to understand the real position of the world, and if you want to preach, then you have to (be) humbler than the tree, humbler than the grass, tolerant than the tree and... We know everyone is rascal; still, you have to give him honor. Then it will be possible to say something. Otherwise it is very difficult. We have to deal with all rascals, fools, rogues, ruffians, all good qualificat..., like. This is... You must know these things. You are dealing with all rascals. So if we call them directly "rascal," they will be angry. Your preaching will not be successful. So follow the principles enunciated by Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī and Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: This is right answer, that you cannot non-cooperate with the stomach. You must serve the stomach. Otherwise your position is very precarious. That is the answer. If the finger thinks that "I shall remain independent and be happy," that is not possible. The stomach must be supplied food, and then all the parts of the body, they'll be happy. That is the point. So you cannot non-cooperate with the stomach. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the central enjoyer. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). He is the center. Just like ordinarily this African state, if you do not satisfy the state or the president, then you cannot remain happy. Independently you cannot be happy. We require in every step sta... We have come to this park because state is cooperating. In the morning we shall come, and they have prepared it nicely. We are not going to the jungle. So if we actually want happiness we must cooperate with the state. This is crude example. Similarly, if our ultimate aim is to become happy, then we must cooperate with Kṛṣṇa. This is obligatory. You cannot escape it. Then you'll be unhappy. This is the... Stomach. Pranopaharac ca yathendriyanam. Therefore the natural process is you pick up... A child even. He picks up some something, but he does not put anywhere—immediately in the mouth. Why he does not bring it in the ear? Why? The child immediately takes it. He does not know what is what. But the nature is that as soon as he captures something, even he does not know... Because his position is eating, he knows this much, sense gratification. Other senses are not yet developed. So the child, he knows taste with tongue and eats. That he knows. So immediately anything he captures, he brings to the mouth, naturally. He hasn't got to be educated. So our position is like that. We being part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, our natural tendency is to serve Kṛṣṇa. Natural tendency. It is not artificial. When you forget Kṛṣṇa, that is artificial.

Morning Walk -- November 1, 1975, Nairobi:

Cyavana: If God's energy is so perfect, then how does this ignorance come upon the living entity?

Prabhupāda: That we have explained many times. You create your ignorance. Just like you cannot live without serving Kṛṣṇa, but you create: "Why not independently?" That is your ignorance. By law, by nature's law, you cannot live without being subordinate to Kṛṣṇa. But why you are thinking, "Why shall I be subordinate to Kṛṣṇa?" Kṛṣṇa is asking you, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ (BG 18.66). Why you are not doing that? Why you are not doing that? Kṛṣṇa is personally asking, "You do this. I shall save you." Why you are not doing this? So you violate the laws of Kṛṣṇa. You suffer. That's all.

Cyavana: But if that energy is perfect, how can it violate?

Prabhupāda: Then you do not know what is living being. Living being has got the, I mean to say, independence, little independence. He can obey; he can violate. In our society there are so many. Somebody is strictly obeying, somebody is willfully, voluntary..., not voluntarily, willfully violating. They must fall down.

Morning Walk -- November 1, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: Will is given to you. Living being means there is will—thinking, feeling and willing. Don't question if you do not know. Everything comes from God. What is the use of "Where will comes?" Janmādya asya yataḥ. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvam... (BG 10.8). Everything is coming from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa has got will; you have got will. Why do you ask? This is foolishness. Kṛṣṇa has got independence; you have got independence. You are a small Kṛṣṇa. A particle of gold is also gold. Everything is there. All chemical composition is there. It has come from Kṛṣṇa. Why you are asking wherefrom it comes?

Jñāna: All living beings are independent, but some choose to serve and some choose to disbelieve.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is use of independence. Otherwise what is the meaning of independence? The meaning of independence is: "If I like, I can do. If I do not like, I do not do." That is independence. That means independence. If you are stereotyped, forced to do, that is not independence. Independence means if you like, you can do it, if not—you don't like-don't do it. That is independence. So misused independence means ignorance. He does not know that "If I infect this virus of this disease I'll suffer." But he does not know, ignorance. So he infects and he suffers.

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ah! Yes. Yes. On the material platform, he... The human life is meant for spiritual culture. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. But they have rejected. They are simply busy. Athāto deha-jijñāsā. That's all. Dehātmā-buddhi.

Dr. Patel: I have got little point on this, that after all, the spirituality within you, namely ātmā, cannot remain independently without this body, so you have got to look after the body.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. That is not the fact. If you are actually spiritually advanced, you don't care for it. Deha smṛti nāhi yār saṁsāra bandhana kāhān tānra. It is just like Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī. He had no spiritual... er, material con... He was eating every alternate day a little quantity of butter. That's all. How he was living in Vṛndāvana? So when one is perfectly on the spiritual platform, there is no bodily necessities. That is the sign. Therefore our civilization is to decrease the bodily necessities, not to increase. Control. Control, from the brahmacārī, control, control, control. Ultimately completely control. That is perfectional stage. Tyāgena. What is that verse?

Dr. Patel: Iśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ yat kincid jagatyam... (ISO 1).

Prabhupāda: No, tapasā brahmacāryena tyāgena yamena vā (SB 6.1.13). This is wanted. Tapasa. Beginning. Tapasya means that controlling the senses. That is tapasya.

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ah! Although he is very proud of his material knowledge, it has no value. Because he is dependent on the laws of material nature, what his knowledge will help him? Suppose a very big man of this material world, he commits some sin. Does it mean that because he has got big qualification he will be saved from the laws? No. He must suffer. So mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You cannot avoid even these material laws, so how you can avoid the nature's law? Mama māyā duratyayā. Very, very difficult, but still, they are thinking, "Oh, we are independent. We can do anything." Therefore mūḍhas.

Dr. Patel: Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etām...

Prabhupāda: Taranti te. Yes. So this is the position. Therefore our propaganda is that "You take Kṛṣṇa and be Kṛṣṇa conscious and then you'll be happy." This is our propaganda. We haven't got to manufacture anything. We have to simply repeat what Kṛṣṇa has said. That's all. (aside:) Oh, Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) This time I have requested all Nairobi important friends that "Now you take sannyāsa and become guru. Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu asked everyone to become guru. amāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). You have come to Africa. Now become their guru and deliver them." "Now, how shall I do it?" Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa upadeśa: (CC Madhya 7.128) "Simply speak. Don't become very big upstart. Simply speak what Kṛṣṇa has done. That's all. You become guru." (Hindi) "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has said this. The meaning of this is this," as Kṛṣṇa left the meaning to be declared or understood by some fools and rascals. This is going on.

Morning Walk -- November 4, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Long and broad. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) ...is anatha, without any master, like these dogs, loitering, no hope where to get food, where to take shelter. Anātha. Anātha and sa-nātha. And you'll find a big man taking care of the dog, and he's barking like any..., "Aw! Aw! Aw!"—because he has got his master. And this poor fellow has no master; therefore he is suffering, anātha. (break) ...Yamunācārya, very nice. Mano-rathāntaram. Kadāham aikāntika-nitya-kiṅkaraḥ praharṣayiṣyāmi sa-nātha-jīvitam. (break) ...the dog, that "These are saintly persons. If they can take me..." (break)

bhavantam eva caran nirantaraḥ
prasanta-niḥśeṣa-mano-rathāntaraḥ
kadāham aikāntika-nitya-kiṅkaraḥ
praharṣayiṣyāmi sa-nātha-jīvitam

Bhavantam eva caran nirantaraḥ: "Simply abiding by the orders of Your Lordship." Bhavantam eva caran, "acting," nirantaraḥ "twenty-four hours," and prasanta-niḥśeṣa-mano-rathāntaraḥ, "and finishing all this mental business, mental concoction, making plans." Niḥśeṣa-mano-rathāntaraḥ. Bhavantam eva caran nirantaraḥ prasanta-niḥśeṣa-mano-rathāntaraḥ, kadāham aikāntika-nitya-kiṅkaraḥ: "When I shall be unalloyedly devotee of Your Lordship, and," praharṣayiṣyāmi, "I shall be jubilant, living," sa-nātha-jīvitam, "that I have got my master. I have got my master. I have no cares and anxiety."

bhavantam eva caran nirantaraḥ
prasanta-niḥśeṣa-mano-rathāntaraḥ
kadāham aikāntika-nitya-kiṅkaraḥ
praharṣayiṣyāmi sa-nātha-jīvitam

This is the ideal of life, to become sa-nātha-jīvitam, living with hope that "I have got my master who will give me protection." That is ideal life. Others, they are living independently-anātha, no master. Just like a child without having father and mother is called anātha. So-called independence means anātha. Anātha. What is the independence? At any time nature's law will come and kick it out. (break) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Eh? Brahmānanda was speaking that "We are feeling anātha before coming here?" Yes. "And now we are feeling sa-nātha." That's a fact. This godless life is anātha. Foolishly they want to remain anātha. They do not like to be sa-nātha. And anātha means the street dog—nobody to take, always barking, always hungry, always disturbed. Somebody is throwing stone. This is their... I went to your country in 1965. I went there as anātha, but I was confident that "Now I am not anātha; I am sa-nātha." (break) ...was interested in my mission, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, no. In this country I wanted to start it. Nobody came forward to help me. So practically... But I was confident that "I am not anātha, but I am sa-nātha." (break) ...does not want to become devotee?

Morning Walk -- November 12, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: And material is, nothing but the transformation of māyā, is it not?

Prabhupāda: No. No. māyā means something false. Nobody makes anything. Everything is made by... Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). Kṛṣṇa is the creator of everything. māyā is also created by Kṛṣṇa. So just like government creates police department. But police department is made for that person who violates the laws of God. The police department is creation of government. Similarly, māyā's business is to capture, arrest the criminal who has gone against God, capture him. Mūḍha janmani janmani (BG 16.20). Mam aprapyaiva. This is the arrangement. Nobody is independent. Everything. Therefore it is called sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. So māyā is also Brahman. māyā is also Brahman. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Why māyā is different from God? It is creation of God. Mama māyā, Kṛṣṇa says. Mama māyā. So how māyā can be... The difference is police cannot arrest the president. Now it has been proved in the law. The president, the prime minister, they cannot be interfered by the police or law. That is good judgment. If the head of the estate is also interfered by police, that does not look well. So this judgment is very nice. Therefore in English constitution the first word is "The king can do no wrong." You cannot accuse king of doing wrong. Whatever he does, it is all right.

Morning Walk -- November 18, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: It came to my mind today.

Prabhupāda: This is beginning of knowledge. Everyone is thinking that he is independent. But completely under the control of prakṛti.

Dr. Patel: (break) ...avyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena sevate, sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). Then brahmaṇo hi pratiṣṭhāham amṛtasyāvyayasya ca.

Prabhupāda: Where is the entrance? Here? This side?

Saurabha: This will be, there. This will be the entrance.

Prabhupāda: A small door?

Saurabha: No, no. This three big space, about seven feet, seven feet, seven feet. There's three openings.

Prabhupāda: (break) Scientists, do they accept this prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27)?

Dr. Patel: I think many of those wise people do accept. But you have been harsh to all and none, all of them at par. But so many of them are really intelligent people who accept... Because we can't do so many things. Practically nothing we can do. Because we find out something here and there does not mean that we are perfect in knowledge. But the scientists nowadays are different than what the scientists were in those days when you were a student. And you think we are just like that. We are different today. He's a scientist. He will tell you. The scientists do see... Scientists do, does the darśana of God in every part of the science, in every cell of living cell, every atom.

Prabhupāda: No. What was the report?

Brahmānanda: Of the books?

Prabhupāda: No. The report, speak to him, that science...

Brahmānanda: The reporter? Scientist?

Prabhupāda: Scientist.

Morning Walk -- November 24, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They are all anātha-jīvita. Yes. Everyone is independence and anātha. There is nātha, but he'll not recognize. Anātha-jīvita. Bhavantam eva caran nirāntaraṁ prasanta... So we are educating people how to become sanātha-jīvitam. Live on your master's... Everyone is living at the cost of master, but foolishly. Ahāṅkara-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). They are living at the cost of the master, but they will not accept. This is the disease. (break) ...natural life, sanātha-jīvitam. From the birth the child is sanātha, parents. Where is the possibility of living independently? That is not possible.

Dr. Patel: Yamunācārya was śiṣya or guru of Rāmānujācārya?

Prabhupāda: Rāmānujācārya.

Dr. Patel: Rāmānujācārya was guru or śiṣya?

Prabhupāda: Yes, guru.

Dr. Patel: Guru. I think Viṣṇu Svāmī was his śiṣya.

Prabhupāda: No. Viṣṇu Svāmī-sampradāya, different. That is Rudra-sampradāya. And Rāmānujācārya is Śrī-sampradāya. The Vallabhācāryas, they belong to Viṣṇu Svāmī. We belong to Madhva-sampradāya. Four ācāryas.

Morning Walk -- November 29, 1975, Delhi:

Ambarīṣa: And all matter is the same.

Prabhupāda: Matter is supreme. Then why the matter does not move independently?

Kṛṣṇa-caitanya: That they have no answer.

Prabhupāda: Then? Then another rascal. If matter is supreme, why don't you combine matter and let it move. So what is that supreme which is moving this matter? If they do not know, then again a rascal, in spite of so much philosophy and so much communism. Why, when Stalin and Lenin died, they simply remained matter? Why it was not moving? Where is that matter?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That they are working on.

Prabhupāda: Again the same rascal. Again another rascal. They are working; therefore we must be satisfied. Postdated check. How you say all these things?

Harikeśa: Well, their philosophy is just a social philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, it is not perfect.

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, it is truth. I am speaking the truth, that "If you have equal right, then let your husband become pregnant. Make some arrangement."

Harikeśa: Viśākhā was preaching to her. She said that "Actually we are less intelligent." (laughter) That started a big scandal...

Prabhupāda: Yes. And that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (break) They are in equal right, then... Nowadays, of course, they are thinking like that, that man should remain independent, and they'll have homosex, and the woman also independent and they will make some... This is most immoral things.

Indian man: If only people think that they have equal right...

Prabhupāda: Where is equal right? Even in Russia there is no equal rights. They have created some of them are managers, and some of them are workers. Why? If equal rights, then everyone should be manager.

Harikeśa: Well, in America they have women senators now.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Harikeśa: Women senators, women are in charge of companies sometimes.

Indian man: No, in India there are two women. They are high commissioners of India to the foreign countries.

Prabhupāda: No, that is possible. That it requires education. That is another... By nature the woman's body is different from man's.

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: The will of God is the real thing.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. His will is supreme. Whatever He says, that's all. As soon as you manufacture, everything is spoiled.

Dr. Patel: It is fractured by man instead of manufacturing. Fractured, broken.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānas te'pisa-tantryam uru-damni baddhaḥ (SB 7.5.31). Pisa tantrya, under the laws of God or nature, everyone is tied, hands and legs, and he's thinking independently, "I can do that."

Dr. Patel: But slowly and slowly, sir, the modern science is trying to prove that sanātana dharma, the existence of God everywhere. Which in our times, if we respect scientists for their...

Prabhupāda: "They are trying to prove" means so long they are rascals...

Dr. Patel: They are rascals. I quite agree with you. You have caught my rascals. (both laughing)

Prabhupāda: As soon as you say "progressing," that means they are rascals. Unless one is rascal, what is the meaning of progress? Hm? Rascal requires progress.

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ugra, ugra. This has been described in Bhagavad-gītā, ugra karma.

Dr. Patel: Yes. Ugra karma.

Prabhupāda: Instead of making life simplified, they have made it a turmoil.

Dr. Patel: And then the whole society has been so entangled in this things. Independently (indistinct). In this way this industrialization, raising of the wants of men, and then production for the fulfilling of their wants. Only men engaged all the twenty-four hours in this fulfillment of the wants. All the machines are grinding for that. Production of the goods, not for the good... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...Karl Marx, why not others?

Dr. Patel: Karl Marx is the grandfather of all of this.

Prabhupāda: Anyone who is concocting, he is an āsura. Hm? Na vidur āsura ajana (sic). Pravitti ca nivṛtti ca na vidur āsura ajana (sic).

Dr. Patel: (Sanskrit) That is what they want. If they are competing with each other from tomorrow...

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa, Jaya! (break) No. Why Karl Marx? Your Vivekananda says yata mat tata patha: whatever you manufacture, that is all right.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Nothing can act independently.

Prabhupāda: Yes, simply negative is useless. These jñānīs, they simply teach negative-brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. But they do not take to Brahman; they simply take the one side, jagan mithyā. They take the.... Brahmā satyam, take to Brahman...

Dr. Patel: Then the second half they are not taking.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They do not know how to remain in Brahman. No, they do not know; therefore we say rascal. You realize that you are Brahman; now your next business is to stay in Brahman. That they do not know.

Dr. Patel: Behave as Brahman. They don't behave.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Either behave or stay, the same thing. Unless you become fire, you cannot stay in fire.

Dr. Patel: That's right.

Page Title:Independent (Conversations 1975)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:10 of Feb, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=100, Let=0
No. of Quotes:100