Prabhupāda: Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī was at Benares. He was a Māyāvādī sannyāsī, Śaṅkara sampradāya. So he used to... This scene should be given that at Benares He was also walking all over the streets and roads, "Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa" and thousands and thousands men were following Him. This news arrived to Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī who was the chief sannyāsī there and some of the devotees told, "Oh, a very nice sannyāsī has come to Benares. He's chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa." So Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī deprecated, "Oh! This is a nonsense! Why a sannyāsī should chant and dance? He should concentrate his mind in studying Vedānta. He is a fool." In this way Caitanya Mahāprabhu was criticized. So one Maharastrian brāhmaṇa, he was devotee of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He said that "This incident gave us much pain, sir. If You kindly meet this sannyāsī and talk with him about Vedānta-sūtra, that would be a nice thing." In the meantime one brāhmaṇa came and invited Lord Caitanya that "I have invited all the sannyāsīns of Benares, but I know You do not meet these Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, but still I have come to invite You. You kindly accept my invitation." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu saw this opportunity of meeting Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī. He accepted his invitation, and there was a meeting, and there was discussion of Vedānta-sūtra with Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, and He converted him to be a Vaisnava. That is another incident.
Incident (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
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Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: We are not meant for those... Of course, Haridāsa Ṭhākura has a separate life, but that we are not going to show.
Hayagrīva: Yes. All right. This particular incident.
Prabhupāda: Particular incident is significant, that Caitanya Mahāprabhu was a brāhmaṇa and He was a sannyāsī. According to social custom He should not touch even a Muhammadan, but this Haridāsa Ṭhākura was a Muhammadan, and at his death He took the body Himself and danced, and He put him in the graveyard and distributed prasādam. And Haridāsa Ṭhākura for two, three days he was feeling not well. Because he was Muhammadan he did not enter the temple of Jagannātha temple. Because the Hindus were very strict. He was devotee, he never mind. Why he should create some row? So Caitanya Mahāprabhu appreciated his behavior that he did not want to create any... Because he has become devotee. Forcibly he was not going to the temple. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu Himself was daily coming and seeing him.
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So Caitanya Mahāprabhu had all these facilities. He was learned, very honored young man in His country; He had many followings. In one incidence we can understand how beloved leader He was. The Kazi challenged His saṅkīrtana movement and first times warned Him not to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and when He did not care for it, then he ordered that, er, that mṛdaṅga should be broken. So the constables came and broke the mṛdaṅgas. This information was given to Lord Caitanya, and He ordered civil disobedience. He was the first man in the history of India who started this civil disobedience movement. It is not Gandhi who is the originator of civil disobedience; it was Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He said that "Defy the order of the Kazi." Kazi means magistrate. So "This evening we shall go at the Kazi's house in hundreds of thousands, with mṛdaṅga and kīrtana." So simply by His order many hundreds of thousands young men—not young men; young, old, all kind of men-gathered, and... The point is just how popular leader He was. Even in His young age, when He was only twenty years old, how popular He was. So..., and because He was a learned brāhmaṇa, people would send Him many presentation. A brāhmaṇa is not expected to work.
Hayagrīva: I don't think Swami Bhaktivedanta's students would be swayed one way or the other because their faith is in Kṛṣṇa and in the spiritual master and it wouldn't be swayed by man going to the moon or not going to the moon. These are very incidental.
Reporter: No, but ...only if say a spiritual master of a faith made very definite statements about what man could or could not achieve, if a spiritual master were to say man cannot achieve this-period. And then man went ahead and achieved it, there would be a crisis.
Prabhupāda: The spiritual master does not say such nonsense things. Man can achieve in a suitable body. Why don't you say that? But that suitable body is not...
Reporter: Yeah, well that's... When I talk to you, I find that the way you say it, if after the events are achieved, there could be explanations for it and there would be no crisis in faith.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. It may be understood that he was Śeṣa, but that was the incident. And another incident is that when He was just walking... So it is the system that small children, they are decorated with ornaments here, here, bangle, so many ornaments, here. So one thief saw that... He stole away the child. So he was seeking some secret place, lonely place, so that he can rob of... In this way seeking, seeking, he traveled, and at last he came just in front of the house, and he dropped the child, that "Somebody may see that I have taken this child. Then I'll be beaten, I will be caught." So out of fear he fled away. And the guardians, ladies, they were very much anxious, "Who has taken the child? He was with ornaments." But they saw that the child is there. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu enjoyed for some time on the shoulder of the thief.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is another feature of Lord Caitanya. He taught in that instruction that there is no need of worshiping demigods. The incident is that in India the unmarried girls, they are encouraged to worship Lord Śiva especially in the month of Vaiśākha, March-April. And they will go to the Ganges side and prepare Śivaliṅga, and they'll... That means Śiva will be pleased upon them to offer a husband like Lord Śiva. Śiva is very peaceful and very great devotee and most powerful at the same time. So that is the ideal husband. So they brought worshipable paraphernalia for worshiping Śiva on the bank of the Ganges, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu, as naughty boy, approached them. "Oh, my dear sister, what you are doing? Oh, you have brought so many nice things. Give it to Me, and Lord Śiva will be very much pleased. Oh, you are worshiping Durga? She is My maidservant and Lord Śiva is a great devotee of Me. So you please offer Me all these things; they will be satisfied. You don't require to offer separately." By this, He wanted to instruct that worshiping the Supreme Lord is the appeasement of other demigods. You don't require to appease them separately. This instruction. Then some girls will hesitate.
Prabhupāda: You can do, you can ask me for fifteen minutes more.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. We also wish to show a scene of Lord Caitanya in school, learning. Some kind of incident about how nice a pupil He was so we can show people that He was the best student in the school.
Prabhupāda: In India the system is in the school that the best student is appointed... What is called in English? The chief student is called "minor," or... "M," beginning.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Monitor.
Prabhupāda: Monitor, yes. Monitor. So He was monitor. That is the same. And He'll teach the students from grammar all Kṛṣṇa. Dhātu. Dhātu. There is subject matter. Dhātu means verb. So He will ex-plain... dhātu means, when a dhātu is taken away a man is dead, and this dhātu is Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa is the life. Without Kṛṣṇa a man is dead." In this way He explained. Kṛṣṇa explanation.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That will be nice. And he is a very intelligent boy. He'll pick up.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Are there any other, any other nice incidences between this time and when Lord Caitanya got married?
Prabhupāda: In childhood there are many incidents. Another incident... That is a very important incident. When He was very small, crawling, so one brāhmaṇa came as their guest. And the brāhmaṇa, after preparing food, when he would offer to Kṛṣṇa, this boy, a child, crawling and take the prasāda and eat. And the brāhmaṇa will cry, "Oh, everything is spoiled. This boy, child has touched." Then His father would request him, "I should take care of Him. Please cook again and offer to Kṛṣṇa." He said, "It is too late now. I'll eat some fruits." "No. Please cook." So twice He spoiled in that way. Then it became night, so all the ladies, they went to sleep with the child and locked the door of the room. And at night at about eleven o'clock the brāhmaṇa, when he was offering to Kṛṣṇa, and the child came and took the prasādam. The brāhmaṇa again began to cry, "Oh, here again the child has come. How you are taking care?" And nobody heard him because everyone was sleeping. One letter is left here?
Prabhupāda: So the Kazi said that "Your grandfather, I call him Chāchā. He's elderly man. So Your mother is my sister. So You are my nephew. So do you think a nephew can be very angry upon his uncle?" And (chuckling) He said, "No, nephew must be obedient to the uncle. But do you think that uncle, when a nephew comes to his house, will not receive him?" "Oh yes. You are welcome. You are my nephew. You are my son." In this way the past incidences forgotten. Then they sat down. Then Caitanya Mahāprabhu asked him, "My dear uncle, what is your religion that you are killing father and mother?" "Why killing father and mother?" "Oh, you are killing cow, your mother. You are drinking milk. And oxen, he produces grains for you in the field; so he is your father. The father earns for the children, so he is producing grains. And mother gives milk; so cow is giving milk. So how is your religion that the father mother killing?" Then he could understand that Caitanya is marking on the cow killing by the Mohammedans. Then he said, "Oh, this cow killing is also in your Hindu religion." Then He said, "How is that, Hindu religion cow killing?"
Prabhupāda: No, no. He took sannyāsa by previous arrangement. One day He went away from home, accompanied by Murāri and Lord Nityānanda, and went to Katwa. There was one Māyāvādī sannyāsī, Keśava Bhāratī, and He took sannyāsa from him. And then He was, in emotion He was going to Vṛndāvana, but He was misled by Nityānanda, and He was brought to the home of Advaita, and Advaita arranged to bring His mother to see Him for the last. So His mother and many people from Nabadwip came to Sant... Advaita's house was in Santipur. So there was, for a few days, Caitanya Mahāprabhu stayed there, and saṅkīrtana and prasāda distribution was going on. And His mother feeling, feeling very well... But Caitanya Mahāprabhu saw that "My mother is not allowing Me to go. That is not good." So He requested, "Mother, I have taken sannyāsī. If I go on feasting like this with mother, what people will say? So you give Me permission to go." So mother said, "Yes, my dear boy. You have taken sannyāsī. But anyway You are happy. That is my happiness. But my only request is that You make Your headquarters at Jagannātha Purī. Because people from Nabadwip generally go there, so I shall get at least Your news. That is my last desire." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "Yes. I shall make My headquarters in Purī." So people were coming and going. So His mother was getting news of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That was then last days. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu, after that incident, never met, either His mother... And there was no question of meeting with wife.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Are there any nice stories you can tell me so that I can... See, I need some stories from that part of His life to show in the play how He... Some incidents, memorable, you know, that...
Prabhupāda: There were not many. The Rathayātrā is very nice. He was chanting with a group of devotees, and while the car festival is going on. And sometimes car used to stop. It still stops. That is the fashion of Jagannātha. And nobody could, even an elephant could not draw it. Then Caitanya Mahāprabhu will say, "All right, come on." So He would push it with His head and it will go on.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What did the people say when they saw that?
Prabhupāda: Then... That was... Caitanya Mahāprabhu already adored, He was. So, there is... Rathayātrā car festival, and Guṇḍicā-mārjana. Guṇḍicā-mārjana. Before the Rathayātrā festival, the system is Jagannātha goes from the temple to another place about two miles away. There is a big temple there also which is called Jagannātha Aunt's(?) house, Mahiṣī badi. So He stays there for eight days. Just like we make program in San Francisco to reside on seaside. So that temple was to be washed. Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to do it by His personal supervision. So all the devotees... And He will check how much dust you have recovered, and then you shall be rewarded.
Prabhupāda: Another incident during Purī... Rāmānanda Rāya, he was a great devotee. So his younger brother, he was engaged in government service, Mahārāja Pratāparudra's service. But he was a karmi and a rich man. So he misappropriated some money for sense gratification from the treasury. So this was... And he had some, what is called, competition, or rivalry, between the king's son and himself. The king's son did not like him, so he was trying to put him in some difficulty. This man... His name is... He's Rāmānanda Rāya's brother. His name is there. I can find out. So he found out some fault with him and informed his father that "Your such and such person has doing like this. He has misappropriated the money. I paid him so much money for purchasing horse, and he has purchased horse less price. He was charged so much." "Oh," the king said, "Oh, how is that? He cannot do that. Realize that money." So he got some clue. So he said that "You must pay. This is not the right price. The state cannot accept at high price this kind of horses." So he said, "All right. I shall sell somewhere and repay the price." Then there was some argument.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then what is the use of making friendship with Kṛṣṇa if you cannot do so? There was a rich man in Calcutta, Motilal Sill. He was so rich that... Every man has different circle in younger days. So he would see. If any of his friends did not possess a house in Calcutta, he would purchase house. He said that, "If people say, 'Oh, you are friend of Motilal Sill. You have no your own house?' what people will say about me? He must have his own house." He purchased house for him. He was very big man. And there are many incidences also like, a very noble story. Actually it was not long ago, say about hundred years ago. He would not see that any one of his associates, friends, does not possess a house in Calcutta. Another Kṛṣṇa's friend, Sudama also. (chuckles) He could not recognize his own place, how it had happened, palatial buildings, garden. In Kṛṣṇa, you have not read Sudama? Give me water.
Yamunā: (indistinct) mentions in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya that a devotee in attachment selects one of the Vṛndāvana..., the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana, and follows in his footsteps in order to be successful in his own devotional service. Does that mean that one of our spiritual masters is an eternal representative of Vṛndāvana?
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Oh. Yes. So our program is that, as I have already explained, the success of everything depends how Kṛṣṇa is satisfied. So if you try to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, then whatever you want, He will give you, benedict. I will give you one instance. It is stated in Kṛṣṇa Book. Kṛṣṇa was a student of Sāndīpani Muni. So when Kṛṣṇa finished His education, it is the system that the disciple gives some, I mean to say, reward, presentation to the spiritual master, because he has educated. So the disciple requests his spiritual master, "Now I have finished my education. I am going home." Formerly the student used to live with the spiritual master. "So how can I serve you?" So at that time the spiritual master, whatever he wants, the disciple will supply. So in the case of Kṛṣṇa, the teacher knew that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So when Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma asked his teacher, "How can I satisfy you?" so they requested, "My dear boys, I lost my child very young. If you kindly bring them, then I shall be very much pleased." So Kṛṣṇa went underneath the sea and brought his son back. This incident is there. So my point is that whatever you want, Kṛṣṇa will give you. You try to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. That's all. (Japanese)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Another thing that is coming up is genetic engineering, which they are afraid about, just like they say remember like atomic bomb incident. The politicians will utilize the...
Prabhupāda: So why they discover all these nonsense and waste their time? Why do they not discover something which will stop all problems of life—no death, no disease. Why do they do not know? They are also rascals, combination of rascals. Why do they expend their energy and intelligence for this nonsense purpose? (break) ...which will be reduced.
Jayatīrtha: They want to discover things just for the sake of knowing them, just because everything should be known.
Prabhupāda: That is described in śāstra, kevala-bodha-labdhaye, just for the matter of knowing, never mind it will be disastrous. Why don't you try to know something which will not be disastrous-beneficial? But that they have not. That you have no power to know that. Why don't you try to know God? Why trying to know something disastrous? What is this?
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Jaya oṁ viṣṇupāda paramahaṁsa parivrājakācārya....So we are thinking we are very much fortunate to hear His Divine Grace Oṁ Viṣṇupāda Paramahaṁsa Parivrājakācārya Bhakti Raksaka Śrīdhara Mahārāja. He is, by age and experience, in both ways he is senior to me. I am also always fortunate to have his association for a very long timeperhaps since nineteen hundred and thirty or something like that. At that time, he did not accept sannyāsa; he just left home, vanaprastha. In his white dress he went to Allahabad. (Aside, to Śrīdhara Mahārāja:) Mahārāja, I think you remember this incident when you went to Allahabad.
Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, I do.
Prabhupāda: Yes, thank you. Yes, at that time...
Śrīdhara Mahārāja: We took prasādam on the roof.
Prabhupāda: Yes, parikrama. And the parikrama, that is also another incident that... I, I was not initiated at that time, but I had very good admiration for these Gauḍīya Maṭha people, and before, before 1933 I met Śrīdhara Mahārāja and other devotees, old Tīrtha Mahārāja. So they were kind to me. Now, the parikrama, I thought, "What these people are doing in this parikrama? Let me go." So I met them in Kosi. Parvata Mahārāja, you may remember, and all people were going to see some Sesasayi.
Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes, so at that time Vinode Bhai, later on Keśava Mahārāja, he informed that "Prabhupāda is going to Mathurā tomorrow morning and he will speak Hari-kathā this evening. Anyone who wants to remain may remain or otherwise they may prepare to go to see Śeṣaśāyī." So at that time, I think only ten or twelve men remained. Out of them Śrīdhara Mahārāja was one of them, and I thought it wise, "What shall I see, this Śeṣaśāyī? Let me hear. Prabhupāda will speak, let me hear." So Prabhupāda marked that this boy...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The scientists, they claim that the discoveries are accidental and incidental, by accident, by chance.
Prabhupāda: What is this? That means they're fools.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: In many instances, when they try to find out something, they do not find the real one that they want, but in between, along the way, they find something else. So that is why they call it by accident. Because they did not aim for that, but somehow they get it along the way. (pause) (break)
Prabhupāda: ...also know how to keep pace with the big, big waves. They know how to do it. They're not afraid of big waves.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They know that the wave is coming. They run because they know that the wave is coming.
Prabhupāda: So the Britishers, they wanted to rule over India, and they were advertising, at least in India, that: "We are making you civilized. Before British rule, the Indians were rude, primitive natives." That's all. That is their propaganda. The whole propaganda was to make the Indians known that: "We are giving you life and civilization. Before this, you were not even human beings." That is their propaganda. So they accept this literature, but they date within one thousand years, one thousand-five hundred years. Even this rascal, Dr. Radhakrishnan, he dates Bhagavad-gītā within two thousand years. That's all. Perhaps I am the first person making propaganda that Bhagavad-gītā was spoken five thousand years ago. I am the first person. All other so-called scholars, they have dated within two thousand years. (pause) There was a book: "England's work in India," written by one rascal Indian, M. Ghosh. In that book... That was taught in the schools in our days. The theme of the book is that before British rule, India was not at all advanced in any way. The incidence of satī... Satī. That was very elaborately explained. Satī...
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. One time he was crossing the street and the man beaten him so severely. He could have died. One Englishman saved him. He was attempted to be killed. After this incidence, when Gandhi returned to India, he became leader automatically. (pause) When Dr. Kalidasa-nama...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Kalidasa?
Prabhupāda: Dr. Kalidasa-nama. Did you hear his name?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Only just now.
Prabhupāda: He was our professor. So he was explaining the different ages of archaeologist, anthropology.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is in philosophy, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: No, history.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, history.
Prabhupāda: In my honors class, I had history. He was teaching us history.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is, that is the question of human life, that: "I want to enjoy. Why there is obstruction of my enjoyment?" Then the next question will be then what I am and what is this nature? These are intelligent questions. That is called brahma-jijñāsā. Where shall I eat? Where shall I sleep? These are very minor questions. They are questions for animals. For the human being, this is the question, that "I want to enjoy life. Why there are so many obstructions?" This is human question. The animals, they do not question. They submit. Just like when you slay one animal, it submits. But a human being, there is law because human being is intelligent. So you cannot kill any other human being, you cannot murder. Then you'll be hanged. But they cannot make law. They're lower grade animals. They submit, somebody killing. But the objection is there, both by the human beings and the animals, that the: "Why you are killing me?" But he's helpless. The man has invented some means. So they have made their laws. But both of them are objecting. In your, in America somewhere, when I first came, there was some incidence that in a live store, they got some opportunity to flee away. Then all the cows were fleeing away. And they were shot down. They were stopped. They knew that: "We are stocked here for being killed." So they got some opportunity, going away. And there is always miserable condition. Just like why you have covered so much? Why you have spent for covering? This is also miserable condition. Miserable condition. In some other place, they are...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Prabhupāda, I remember an incident in Bombay. That was when I was in Calcutta about, a few years ago. There was a yogī. There was advertisement that he was going to walk on water.
Prabhupāda: No, that is possible.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So I think it was about five hundred rupees per ticket.
Prabhupāda: Oh, just see. His real aim was to get some money.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Radhakrishnan was there, the president. But ultimately, he could not walk. He fell down in the water.
Prabhupāda: And what about the money?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I don't know. He was beaten or something. They said he missed something.
Guest (3): We had a very funny incident after you left. After two or three days, my young daughter, you know... She's about two or two and a half at that time. She was sitting in one corner of the house, and she, you know, those cups like this you have to have, to keep under the furniture legs, you know, cup like this, she had two of them, and she was doing like that. And, uh...
Prabhupāda: Karatālas.
Guest (3): My daughter. I asked her, you know, "What are you doing?" She replied quietly, "I'm doing Hare Kṛṣṇa."
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Guest (3): So that really hit me hard, and I thought, "Look, one day's sat-saṅga can have that effect on life, how much bigger effect it would have..."
Prabhupāda: Intelligent, this is intelligent.
Guest (3): "...if there's a greater association." And that really led me to India, and say, "Well, in India I would have more of these spiritual things and more of that atmosphere, environment." And, well, you know, that particular incident really struck me.
Harry: But the point is this, that if you just act as you are, and, if you don't mind me saying... These little things which come back to me, and thinking a bit logically, from a common sense point of view, I don't think it's necessary. But you can tell me to mind my own business. I'm not here to dictate to you. Now you must remember this. And the only time I should dictate to you is if you commit any offense outside the road where my jurisdiction starts, or there is a serious incident in the temple which I would have to come out and sort out. Now can you follow me?
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Revatīnandana: Actually, we would appreciate if you would tell us these things, that the village people are thinking this, thinking that. If they're feeling unhappy about something, if it's something that we can change, let us know.
Harry: Well, this is it. Look... But you can't do this... Rome wasn't built in a day.
Prabhupāda: No, you cannot satisfy.
Revatīnandana: No. What he means is that if, whenever he hears of some incident, like the doctor's surgery, should he tell us or not? And I'm saying he should tell us so we'll know. And if it's nothing important, we can correct it easily.
Prabhupāda: No, we should generally know that we may take pleasure chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa loudly. Others may not.
Revatīnandana: Right.
Prabhupāda: That is generally. So when you go others' place, we may not chant loudly, simply chant in such a way you can hear. That's all.
Harry: Yeah, this'll do it. I mean, if you want to chant...
Prabhupāda: You don't stop chanting.
Harry: No!
Prabhupāda: But that: (softly:) Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma... I am hearing. That's all.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They work so hard. Śrīla Prabhupāda, there is a nice incident. There is a scientist from France, Pasteur. When he was about to be married, the same day, he forgot his own marriage day because he was working in his laboratory, doing experiments. So one of his friends reminded him, "Oh, Pasteur, your marriage day is today so you come out from the lab and you have to go there." Then he went out and got married,
Prabhupāda: There is a Bengali proverb, yāṅra loke bie naya, para lokera ghumnaya: (?) "The man who is to be married, he has forgotten, and the neighbors, they are not sleeping, 'Oh, that man will be married. That man will be married.' " But he has forgotten.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So people are saying that "See how sincerely he's working. Take his example."
Prabhupāda: Yes. So who is not sincerely working? He's working for some money. That's all. So everyone is working for money. What is the difference? If he's not paid for that, he'll not work. Just like a dog is working for the master, for the bread. That's all. So he's working not for himself, not for others, but for his money. Or some ambition. Prestige. That's right. (break) ...where? On the beach you are seeing?
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Therefore sleeping is my only business. Sleeping means for the weak. And for the strong, perspiration. This is the sign. When a man sleeps too much, he's weak in his health. And the strong man will perspire. These are very... Balera ghāma, and the durbalera ghuma. Ghāma and ghuma. Ghuma means sleeping, and ghāma means perspiration. (break) ...principle. And human beings means trained up under principle. That is the difference between animal. The animals, they cannot take up any training. But the human being, this human form of body is meant for taking training. So if they are not properly trained up, they remain animals and the whole society in chaos and confusion. That's all. (break) ...moment, the human society's so degraded that even we are walking, this is also risky. This is also... Gradually, it is becoming. Just like in our New York... That Berkeley? Berkeley? No. Brooklyn. It is difficult to walk due to the Negroes. They immediately: "Whatever you have got, give me." There are so many incidents.
Prabhupāda: Front seat, yes. So I was criticizing my friends in Calcutta that you have paid twenty-five rupees, you have got last seat. I have paid one rupee, I have first seat. We were very thickly... Not very thickly, but as customer... Do you know? I shall tell one incident. One day Jawaharlal Nehru came and he asked me, "Give me prophylactic hair brush." So I told, "Panditji, we are selling prophylactic tube brush and we do not know that there is prophylactic hair brush." "No, you do not know. You get it for me. I want it." So I got it from Bombay, here, and supplied him.
Dr. Patel: There is no prophylactic hair brush anywhere.
Prabhupāda: No, I got it, prophylactic hair brush.
Dr. Patel: Somebody writes on it, on the name "prophylactic."
Prabhupāda: It may be whatever it may be. Now, just see that how much country conscious he was. He wants prophylactic brush. Not only that. I will tell you another incident. I was manufacturing one medicine, jagon(?) poultice. That is like anti-(?). So doctors were prescribing in Allahabad. So there was one big doctor, Dr. R.N. Banerjee Rai Baba. So sometimes I was seeing the doctors.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Still, they say, "There was no Kṛṣṇa." That is the most regrettable incidence, that these people, they do not know what is Bhagavad-gītā, and still, they pose themselves as a knower of Bhagavad-gītā. Yes. That should be protested now. That is our mission. No, you cannot say like that.
Dr. Patel: We are going to read up to the mandir. Because we have not...
Prabhupāda: (break) ...study one line, that is sufficient. It does not mean to go like a storm and do not understand.
Dr. Patel: We don't go like a storm. We go very slowly.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Let us go slow but sure.
Girirāja: (finishes synonyms for 11.19) "Translation: You are the origin without beginning, middle or end. You have numberless arms, and the sun and moon are among Your great unlimited eyes. By Your own radiance, You are heating this entire universe."
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says that prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ. Now that being exhibited by Kṛṣṇa. Not only Kṛṣṇa said, but He exhibited.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Arjuna is also... Yes, equal to Nara-nārāyaṇa. (break) ...as Nara-nārāyaṇa. Somewhere, I think.
Girirāja: (reads) "Kṛṣṇa's knowledge is so perfect that He remembers all the incidences of His appearances some millions and billions of years in the past. But Arjuna's memory and knowledge are limited by time and space, for he is an ordinary human being." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa did not become God by the so-called meditation or mystic power. He has already all this yogeśvara. All mystic powers are already there. (break) ...that man?
Girirāja: Does he also appear through Mahā-Viṣṇu? When Kṛṣṇa appears, it says that...
Prabhupāda: Yes. He appeared through Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu.
Girirāja: Oh.
Bhāgavata: But He's still the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He killed his brother. He was merciful upon the father only, kept him in the prison. Otherwise he killed the whole family—brother, brother's son and everyone. (break) ...present kings, such incidences are very many in the history, killing everyone. There is another story that Pana, Pana?
Yaśomatīnandana: Panavada.(?)
Prabhupāda: Yes. The child was to be killed and the...
Yaśomatīnandana: Sarvan sevya.(?)
Prabhupāda: Yes, Hare Kṛṣṇa. The maidservant, she changed her own son and kept the real royal family, defended him. Her child was killed.
Yaśomatīnandana: Is it a true story?
Prabhupāda: Yes, why not? (break) ...and maternal uncle of Rāvaṇa.
Girirāja: "After this incident, when Yaśodā was once nursing..."
Prabhupāda: But one thing is that Vasudeva was also thinking of Kṛṣṇa and he is also thinking of Kṛṣṇa. As a simple agriculturist, he is also thinking of Kṛṣṇa. And Vasudeva also, when he was asking him, "Go and take care of your children there," that was thinking of Kṛṣṇa. If the thinking of Kṛṣṇa is there, then either kṣatriya or vaiśya or brāhmaṇa, it doesn't matter. Everyone gets the same benefit.
- ya eṣaṁ puruṣaṁ sākṣād
- ātma-prābhavam īśvaram
- na bhajanty avajānānti
- sthānāṁ bhraṣṭāḥ patanty adhaḥ
Everyone should understand that "Whatever I may be, I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa." So if this consciousness is maintained and everyone is engaged in the service of Kṛṣṇa by his work and by his occupational duty, then he is perfect.
Girirāja: "After this incident, when Yaśodā was nursing her child and patting Him with great affection, there streamed a profuse supply of milk from her breast, and when she opened the mouth of the child with her fingers, she suddenly saw the universal manifestation within His mouth." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...Kṛṣṇa here?" And died. He died. "Is your Kṛṣṇa here?" And died immediately. He said his mother, "Mother, you chant Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa," because he has learned this. So after hearing, she inquired, "Is your Kṛṣṇa here?" And died. So I told him, "You have done the best service to your mother." (end)
Prabhupāda: That's all. My things were stolen from my apartment in the beginning, so I went to the police. They simply noted down. That's all. (break) ...you can narrate the incidents when the negro at San Francisco...
Lilavati: Yes, we were...
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Kṣatriya, this is all finished. Now only śūdras and, little vaiśyas there are.
Dr. Patel: No, here, here you have got also brāhmaṇas.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: But they don't follow them. Nobody follows them.
Prabhupāda: No...
Dr. Patel: Many people.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: ...observing Śiva-rātri, Nanda Mahārāja and all the cowherds men, they increased their attachment for Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted.
Pancadravida: "After this incident, on a very pleasant night both Kṛṣṇa and His elder brother Balarāma, who are inconceivably powerful, went into the forest of Vṛndāvana." (break)
Prabhupāda: "Dressing is artificial. It is not required. Yes. This naked body is very nice." (break) No, you don't... You cannot be naga-bābā. That is not good. (break) If one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, all these rascaldom becomes charming. When one is Kṛṣṇa conscious these things does not appeal.
Pancadravida: "Kṛṣṇa's transcendental form, quali..." (break)
Prabhupāda: Law is there. (break) ...speak in all language, even in the animal, birds' language. Babudaka.
Dr. Patel: Keśi-nisūdana.
Prabhupāda: Keśi-nisūdana.
Prabhupāda: In the court?
Devotee: Yes. Because, you knew about the Watergate case. He was caught...
Yogeśvara: Prabhupāda knows the story. He knows the incident. He was found innocent by who? By court?
Devotee: Yes, by the whole government. He had done some cheating and campaign making secret tape recordings against the other party.
Prabhupāda: He did? And still he is innocent?
Devotee: Yes. He paid so many millions, thousands and thousands of dollars. His party, the republican party, they put microphones and everything in the convention of the democrats and had spies and everything in order that he could find out their tricks. He had paid all these men and there were all fired.
Prabhupāda: So that is not bad because in politics you have to do that. Everyone does so. What is Nixon's fault?
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: But you must come back. He said, "Oh, I am not coming back again?" "No." "No, no, then I don't want." Yes, that is the psychology. The Russians, when some aeronaut was flying high in the sky, he was seeing: "Where is my Moscow?" Yes, it was published. That is māyā. The... Another incidence happenned that when the jet was in danger, he was thinking of "How to come back home?" This is māyā. Cannot go. Even though you like to go, still, it will attract you again, back to hell. Otherwise, how people are living in—what is called? That place where is ice?
Haṁsadūta: Alaska.
Brahmānanda: Greenland.
Jagadisa: North Pole?
Prabhupāda: What is the name of those people?
Prabhupāda: As Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, that "I am not a brāhmaṇa, I am not a kṣatriya, I am not a vaiśya"—everything He denied. So purify yourself and you'll see God. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to become purified. That makes you all right. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva (Bs. 5.38). Sadaiva means always. This is the process. Why these rascals say, "Can you show me God?" What qualification have you got? He doesn't think like that, that "I have no qualification." He thinks that "I am very advanced." That is foolish. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ. Similarly a third-class man goes to a high-court judge. Foolish rascals has come. "Who is that?" "I don't know." There was an incident. One big philosopher and one big dramatic player. He was also very famous. So he went to see that philosopher and sent his card. He said, "Oh, why shall I see this dancing dog? He may be famous as a dancing dog, but I have no business with him. If some philosopher comes, then it will be a pleasure to talk with him. What does he know? He may be expert in dancing. It is not philosophy." So he refused to see him. "Why shall I see this dancing dog?" He used these words.
Prabhupāda: There are so many instances of this in the histories. Bharata Mahārāja was obliged to take his birth as a stag due to his intimate attachment to a stag. He thought of this stag when he died. As such, in the next birth he became a stag, although he did not forget the incidents of his previous birth. Similarly, Citraketu also fell down due to his offenses at the feet of Śiva. But in spite of all this, the stress is given here to surrendering unto the lotus feet of the Lord, even if there is a chance of falling down, because even though one falls down from the prescribed duties of devotional service, he will never forget the lotus feet of the Lord. Once engaged in the devotional service of the Lord, one will continue the service in all circumstances. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that even a small quantity of devotional service can save one from the most dangerous position. There are many instances of such examples in history. Ajāmila is one of them. Ajāmila in his early life was a devotee, but in his youth he fell down. Still, he was saved by the Lord at the end."
Madhudviṣa: Very nice. So he has taken many photographs for us. And we are particularly indebted to Wally and Raymond for giving us a lot of good guidance in our dealings with the police. And one time we had one incident about three years ago, when some of the boys were a little enthusiastic about Ratha-yātrā festival, and they went out and they picked many flowers illegally. So they were caught.
Prabhupāda: Illegally? Where? In the park?
Madhudviṣa: No. In one flower-growing nursery.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Madhudviṣa: So they were found out and caught. But Raymond was able to get them off free due to Kṛṣṇa's mercy. But it taught us a good lesson.
Guest 1: Actually I think they had the wrong people.
Prabhupāda: So letter is already there. (Bengali)
Lalitā: ...after Mojīva's(?) incident. She is very... (Bengali)
Prabhupāda: So now what shall I write?
Lalitā: (Bengali) He was busy for the world organiza..., but he has left everything.
Prabhupāda: So shall I refer to your name? (Bengali) So take the... So "Your Excellency, Śrīmatī Indira Devi..." Indira Gandhi or Indira Devi?
Lalitā: "Indira Devi" (Bengali)
Prabhupāda: "Indira Devi Gandhi, when I was in Canada, in..." Montreal?
Brahmānanda: Toronto.
Harikeśa: Oh, yes, yes.
Indian man (2): Even in case of mother Desai, it was a classic incident, that his wife came one day to Gandhiji, that "This man is your personal writer but he is going on with another woman in your camp."
Prabhupāda: There are so many.
Indian man (2): "And he comes only because of that woman. Otherwise he is not willing to be your personal writer. So I have complained." Then Gandhiji said, "All right, when did you know it?" So she said, "I was thinking for the three months, but fifteen days before I came." "All right, Mahadeva, you come here. You will fast for fifteen days." And one week later (indistinct) Mahadeva Desai was that he wanted food very badly. So after seven days he was about to die. Then that woman, wife, came again, "Mahārāja I made a mistake. I made a complaint. All right. But now this man will die and where I will go?" (indistinct) "Then why have you made a complaint? So you can take off for seven days but you fast for seven days." So he is relieved.
Prabhupāda: One—there are so many cases. This Lilavati Munshi, this is the same thing. You know that? There is a big history behind this.
Prabhupāda: Therefore Kṛṣṇa says... When you forget Kṛṣṇa, He comes to preach the normal life. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). This is normal life. So Kṛṣṇa does not require your help. He can create many helpers. But for your good Kṛṣṇa comes, that "If you want normal, happy life, then surrender unto Me." This is the proposal. Therefore the whole Bhagavad-gītā, all Vedic knowledge, is there. We have forgotten our position. Our posit..., normal position, is to love and serve Kṛṣṇa. Therefore anādi bahir mukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli gela ataeva kṛṣṇa veda purāṇa karila. Because we do not know... From time immemorial we cannot ascertain when this incidents have happened, to forget Kṛṣṇa, but it is practically... Life after life, life after life, we are changing body, but forgetting Kṛṣṇa. So here, in the human form of life, there is the opportunity to revive our original position, and we require the help of knowledge, perfect knowledge. And that is there in the Vedas. Atha eva kṛṣṇa veda purāṇa karila. If we don't take advantage, although we have got... We can read Bhagavad-gītā, and if we don't take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and go on whimsically, then we'll suffer.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, He likes to worship His devotee. Sometimes the father takes the child on his shoulder. Does it mean the child is more important than the father? They say the Vālmīki Rāmāyaṇa, there is no such incidence as Rāmacandra worships Śiva. It is later on, interpretation. But even if He does so, what is the wrong here?
Harikeśa: That later-on Rāmāyaṇa has caused some havoc.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Harikeśa: That later-on interpretation?
Prabhupāda: Yes, the Śaivaites, they want to make Lord Śiva the exalted Supreme Person. In South India there is good propaganda. That is always going on.
Lokanātha: When Lord Śiva says in Purāṇas that mukti-pradapaḥ sarveṣāṁ viṣṇu... (sic)
Prabhupāda: Hm?
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Acyutānanda: Actually the United States government has a whole agency for unidentified flying objects that people have seen that they keep secret so as not to frighten the whole America thinking that visitors from other planets will come. But there are many incidents of pilots who fly around in airplanes, who see other strange-looking objects coming at them, flying at them, or people from the ground have seen many.
Devotee: One guy testified that he was picked up and taken away for four days.
Acyutānanda: Well, that was...
Prabhupāda: What they are? They are police? No. Mounted police?
Acyutānanda: Yes, mounted police.
Prabhupāda: A mounted police here?
Prabhupāda: So we shall return now?
Indian man: (break) ...my weekly visits, that Jyoti Swami showed me that incident at Japan(?), and he asked me, "Have you seen...?"
Prabhupāda: Doṣam icchanti pāmarāḥ. Doṣam icchanti pāmarāḥ. Makṣikā bhramarā icchanti...(?) Maksikā, these ordinary flies, they find out where is sore, and the bhramarā, he finds out where is honey. Similarly, doṣam icchanti pāmarāḥ. And the Bhaktivedanta Swami is doing preaching all over the world—that has not come to his eyes. He has come to the Japanese incident. He has come.
Indian man: Yes, I told him there might be some, in a big organization, such a...
Prabhupāda: No, why did you not say, "You are such a pamara that this thing has come to your notice and not other thing"?
Prabhupāda: He was reading?
Indian man: Ah, that is what he reminds me, because I said the incident which I had with him.... On Kṛṣṇa Jayantī day I did not go there. But on that day it was being read out. That was the silly part of it.
Yaśodānandana: So Prabhupāda, these same people that...
Prabhupāda: So what is the wrong there? What was the wrong?
Indian man: No, he said that "This movement has got these black sheep, and they have been banned in Japan. Everywhere they will be banned."
Prabhupāda: But there is something in Japan which is banned. But what you have got in Japan?
Indian man: Nothing.
Yaśodānandana: First of all, we are not even banned in Japan. The center is still there.
Bhavānanda: Yes, little harassment. Then I even... Of course, I don't know. I even question... Just like that Lalitā Bose, that whole incident which Jayapatākā told you about. Who knows? She is so influenced by... She is big, so-called Vaiṣṇava, and known in so many circles in Bengal. Who is influencing her? You know? Anyway, we simply stay on our land and develop our program. He is going mad.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Bhavānanda: He is becoming mad.
Prabhupāda: Who?
Bhavānanda: Tīrtha Mahārāja.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) How?
Bhavānanda: Well, the more he hears. Because he gets so many reports. So many people are coming here, and no one is going there.
Prabhupāda: Crowd also?
Pañca-draviḍa: Yeah, the crowd here.... There was practically.... I didn't see any incidents of anybody doing anything wrong or trying to cause trouble.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Satsvarūpa: Jayapatākā Mahārāja just said he was measuring the people as they came in. In one minute, an average of a 150 people came.
Jayapatākā: That was only low time. And peak time was 400.
Hṛdayānanda: Per minute?
Jayapatākā: Per minute.
Prabhupāda: How many visitors, according to your calculations?
Jayapatākā: So that's about between 9,000 to 25,000 an hour.
Hṛdayānanda: They averaged fifteen or twenty thousand an hour.
Jayapatākā: Per hour. Then they, all day they're coming.
Prabhupāda: No. Jagannātha, that is another history. King Indradyumna, he wanted to establish a temple of that incidence, and that the Deities while being carved would remain unfinished. So, he was very impatient to establish, so he established the unfinished Deity. That is Jagannātha.
Devotee (7): The nondevotees cannot understand...
Prabhupāda: They are being carved, Kṛṣṇa's wood form, but he was so impatient, he said "Whatever is done now, establish." It is said that Viśvakarmā was enquiring. So the term was, Viśvakarmā said that "Unless I finish, don't open the door." So this king, he went impatiently, and calling out whether he is finished. Then he forced, forcibly opened the door, and it was unfinished. So he said "Never mind, (indistinct)." Unfinished Kṛṣṇa (indistinct). So Kṛṣṇa, finished or unfinished, is Kṛṣṇa. That is omnipotency. That is Jagannātha form, (indistinct) doesn't matter finished or unfinished. (end)
Rāmeśvara: He says we teach our.... I mean he has many arguments. He knows all about the incidents in Germany and Japan, and he uses this against us.
Prabhupāda: He's collected all these bad.
Rāmeśvara: "Lying and cheating," he says.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A few devotees who have joined him, who left and have joined him, they have given him this inside information, so he tries.... Actually, though, no strong devotee can be changed by him. He only gets the very new men. So now he's written a book.
Prabhupāda: About us?
Rāmeśvara: About his experiences of kidnapping our students and others.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the book called?
Rāmeśvara: It's called Let My Children Go.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Let Our Children Go, yes.
Rādhāvallabha: But how would the soul develop a particular body...?
Prabhupāda: That is Yamarāja is.... We are reading the Yamarāja incident(?). That's all.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Just like how can a living entity take birth in the fire?
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The argument is that how can an entity take birth in perspiration? His question. So how can a living entity take birth in the fire? Mostly our experience is that entities are taking birth from the earth, but according to the understanding...
Prabhupāda: So how the fishes are born in the water? How the other living entities, they remain in the air? Or without air? There are five elements: earth, water, fire, air.... Anywhere, the living entities can take birth. Sarva-ga. Sthāṇur sarva-gataḥ acalo 'yam. You read all these words of Bhagavad-gītā. Sarva-ga. From anywhere, he can take birth.
Richard: Okay, okay. You said in the purport that tragedies of life—I'm paraphrasing—tragedies of life such as death of even a close relative are mere incidental occurrences. Is...? But you said earlier that death to you was anything but a mere incidental occurrence, that it was the...
Prabhupāda: No, we are not irresponsible to the death. Death, although we have to meet death, we are making provision that after death we become happy. Happy, of course, for us, even in living condition or dead condition, there is happiness, but it will take time to understand. But taking superficially, death is not very pleasing, so after death, that is mentioned in the Bha.... Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9), we do not get again a material body. This is final. The material body is the cause of pains and pleasure. So if you don't get the material body, if you remain in your spiritual body, that is real enjoyment.
Prabhupāda: Oh, your father is also recluse.
Dr. Sharma: Recluse. And I must tell an incident which, although I was growing up with meditation, I find the bhakti-yoga, the chanting, really fulfilling and actually making the difference. Actually making the difference. In one case, it is abstract philosophy, which is the rāja-yoga, other yogas, philosophies, and this actually makes the person transformed. Another incident occurred yesterday, when I was meditating and I wanted to ask about five different ślokas of Gītā, out of which, surprisingly, you discussed four. (laughter) This was most astounding to me.
Prabhupāda: Which one?
Prabhupāda: I took sannyāsa sometime in '59, and... No, that is after I took sannyāsa. No, no. Before, yes. Before or after,...
Hari-śauri: He said it was the day before.
Prabhupāda: No. That was an incident in Delhi. Now I think it was... It was before. Before. That was sometime in 1956.
Hari-śauri: Oh, that's a long time before.
Prabhupāda: And I took sannyāsa in 1959.
Hari-śauri: That was in Vṛndāvana or Delhi?
Prabhupāda: No, Delhi. Vānaprastha. I was alone. But my paper was going on, Back to Godhead. In Delhi I was alone. I was doing everything. Editing, selling, collecting, cooking.
Hari-śauri: There was no Godbrothers helping at all?
Prabhupāda: I did not take. They wanted. I did not like.
Prabhupāda: No. He has written to (indistinct)?
Girirāja: Yes. He made another point, that is Vallabhācārya actually considered Caitanya Mahāprabhu as his superior. Then after this incident, still, he criticized Śrīdhara Swami. So that means he did not accept Caitanya Mahāprabhu as superior.
Prabhupāda: There is no question of accept. He was plainly defeated. Because he said that (indistinct). Even Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted his invitation after this. He also invited and he also (indistinct) ...talk like that. Not only that, Caitanya Mahāprabhu criticized, but as soon as Vallabhācārya invited, He accepted. There was no enviousness. Rather friendly, sometimes they call others are (indistinct). Otherwise why Caitanya Mahāprabhu would accept invitation from Vallabhācārya. But they are habituated to criticize (indistinct). That Caitanya Mahāprabhu chastised him: "Why should you think like that?" In a friendly way. (indistinct) They are still criticizing Śrīdhara Swami, and if others criticize them, "Why you are criticizing Śrīdhara Swami?" There is no answer. This is the position. (indistinct—only fragments of conversation audible for some time)
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is always, trespass. Their trespass law is very strict in USA. There are dogs, and there are revolver, and trespasser, if he is killed, there is no offense. Is it not? It is very dangerous. I know one incident in New York. Some yogi came. So he was... You know that? So I became very irritated. So I asked him, "Get him out immediately." So my men got him out. He went to the police and he said that he was assaulted and so on, complained. The police came and inquired. So there were so many inquiries. But I did not know... Then I said that "He came to me without invitation." "Oh!" Immediately he dismissed. "I did not ask him to come. He came to me and disturbed me." So immediately, "Oh..." He decided. He said, "Oh..." So that law is very strict. And that is very good. Nobody can come without invitation or engagement. Otherwise they trespass. Is it?
Prabhupāda: Four years younger. Yes. But his health is nice. He looks younger. So in this book the whole incident is described. I have given everything in the commentary.
Guest (1): Everything is described. Only the thing is that we should get the sense and do in our action. That is the whole thing. Our roots are India...
Guest (2) (Indian man): Sir, how to bathe also it is mentioned.
Guest (1): Just a minute. Also India, in our country, in the recent history of our country, we had many cultured peoples like Gandhi and Patel. But how these two men became great, not others? Because only by their actions.
Prabhupāda: Our greatness in this country was considered on spiritual advancement.
Prabhupāda: So simply hear them. That's all. One big barrister, he was my friend. He is dead, M. C. Chatterji. He's a very big barrister. He used to charge sixteen thousand rupees for one appearance. So he was stating about when..., that he came to Vṛndāvana, and he met one boy, and "He asked me some sweets, I gave him sweet. Later on, when I was coming back to Delhi, I saw that boy was running on the train." He said. Such a big barrister, he said like that. "Oh, he was so..." Posturing like this. What can I say? "Kṛṣṇa as cowherd boy was running after you in the train?" This is going on. Another friend's wife, she came to Jagannātha Purī. So Jagannātha Purī, those who are rich men, they are allowed to go near the Jagannātha. So that lady said that "While I was circumambulating, Jagannātha was snatching my cloth." Jagannātha became so much attached with that blackish woman that He began to snatch his (her) cloth. So many stories I know. So what can be said? "Why did you not remain with Jagannātha? Why you came back?" This is going on. So I have got experience of many such stories. Kṛṣṇa as cowherd boy was running with his train. I have to take. And Jagannātha was snatching her cloth. They are very poisonous things. I was never fortunate with such incidences. I am simply trying to carry out the order of my Guru Mahārāja. That's all.
Hari-śauri: Nine months after that incident they had a record number of births...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: ...in New York.
Prabhupāda: What can they do in darkness? (laughter) That is the only engagement in darkness.
Jayapatākā: They could have chanted Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No... Even Hare Kṛṣṇa people. Nāviviktāsano bhavet, mātrā svasrā duhitrā vā (SB 9.19.17). It is strictly forbidden: "You should not sit alone even with your mother, sister or daughter, what to speak of wife." Balavān indriya-grāmo vidvāṁsam api karṣati: "The senses are so strong, even learned persons, advanced, they also become victimized." Balavān indriya-grāmaḥ. Balavān means very strong. When the... It is forbidden even with mother, sister or..., and daughter. That is the only capturing instrument in the material world. Maithunyam agāra, prison house of sex, this material world. It is a prison house, but locked up by sex. The ordinary prison house, they are locked up by guards, and here the locking process is sex. Maithunyam agāra.
Ādi-keśava: He is in... This is one of the men who was used to hold a devotee during a deprogramming, a big... I know this man personally. You see, already we have sometimes come to blows with them. We had one incident where a devotee was being held captive, and I went with some devotees in the middle of the night, and we had some fighting. The police stopped us. They took me away and beat me and threw me in the bushes, and then they kept the boy there, the devotee. He got away later. But men like this we have fought with several times. When it comes to these questions, I wanted to know, when there is sometimes some violence...
Prabhupāda: What can be done? Violence. Beat him.
Ādi-keśava: This book gives documentation of so many cases where they have used violence against our devotees. These are also...
Hari-śauri: Hired men. Guṇḍās.
Prabhupāda: No. They can understand that "These people are going to kill us. These people will not kill us." They can understand. You know that when I was in America some incident took place, that some slaughterhouse livestock, the..., somehow or other, it was open, and they were fleeing away, going away. Something happened. They were going up on the slaughterhouse, and some of them were shooted.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The cows were running away?
Prabhupāda: Hm. Unless they could understand that "We are kept here for being slaughtered," why they were running away?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They speak of peace, such nonsense. How can they expect peace when they're slaughtering?
Prabhupāda: All do. It is very, very demons', the Western civilization. No social structure, no mercy. All good qualities devoid. Simply animals in good dress. That's all.
Prabhupāda: But how is that, they have avoided everything else? "Surabhī Swami is doing. It is his city." They're asking, "his city." And where is such incidence that any project, without mentioning the project makers, the architect's name... Where is that incidence, that "Here is the architect, architect, architect"? Nobody finds.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You look at any project in Bombay that's coming up, or anywhere in India. They'll always mention who is going to use the building or who is..., who paid for it. Hardly ever... If anything, the architect's name is mentioned in one line, "designed by so and so." But the architect never holds the press conference. That's another... I mean, I never heard of an architect holding a press conference. Neither I have heard the architect doing so many of the other things which the architect is doing. That, I think, is the essential thing. Whenever Bhavānanda Mahārāja...
Prabhupāda: Anyway, you form immediately joint committee. You cannot do independently. That is not possible. Whatever is done is done. Now, henceforward, you should be guarded. You, you published that article?
Prabhupāda: I told him that "You cannot do so independent. You are doing nice, but not to do in the... You admit." People complained against Haṁsadūta. Did you know that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm not sure of the particular incidences, but I've heard general...
Prabhupāda: In Germany. In Germany.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The devotees there.
Prabhupāda: So many complaints.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Therefore change is good.
Prabhupāda: No, you become guru, but you must be qualified first of all. Then you become.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, that kind of complaint was there.
Prabhupāda: Did you know that?
Prabhupāda: From the very beginning I have said it is childish, 1958. I am not scientist. I have no... No, there are so many incidences. I never agreed, "It may be they have gone." They did not go.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He has very elaborately described how they faked everything. He gave in great detail how each part of the hoax was perpetrated. The thing is...
Prabhupāda: The Apollo, they were dying. They prayed to God. This is also artificial. Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Our conclusion was that those three men who died were killed, that they never knew that there was a hoax while they were in training. Then, at the time when the spacecraft was going to take off they were told, "Now you're not going anywhere. This is only a hoax, so you have to act like this," and probably they did not want to. They refused. Therefore they were killed. We were discussing this yesterday, Gargamuni, Śrīdhara Mahārāja, Bali-mardana and myself. That was our conclusion, that those men must have been killed by the government.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise they'll disclose.
Prabhupāda: No. Even that incidence I told you, the, Duryodhana said, "You have come to, for kingdom? Yes, you can take." So he said, "No, no, no. That we shall decide in the battlefield." This is kṣatriya. "Oh, Duryodhana, you are so gentleman. Let us settle up. No, no, no." "No! That will be settled in the battlefield." This is Bhagavad-gītā. (Hindi) "No, we have come to the battlefield. We must decide by fighting." This is kṣatriya. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam. (Hindi) This is teaching of Bhagavad-gītā. Yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam. Then where this is nonviolence come in the Bhagavad-gītā? Apalāyanam. (Hindi) "Come on. Fight. You have no weapon? Take from me." This is kṣatriya. What is the definition?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṣatriya?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...are completely against us. He says Girirāja and himself are meeting leading Hindus like Sadaji Vitlal, etc. He said, "We will have to bring up the Calcutta incident in Parliament." He says this has to be brought up in Parliament. "It was just like Uganda." Just like what happened in Uganda. Whole thing is a plot of the Communists.
Prabhupāda: And it has gone to the Central Government?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You said that. I guess you must have got that information from the newspaper. I didn't know that. I mean just see. Fifty of them together stealing the grass. That's organized. Two hundred fifty people waiting in the bushes, knowing that we will try to stop them from stealing, and suddenly they all rush into the gate, destroy the gate, cut the wires, cut the telephone line, destroy the waterpumps. Every one of these things is criminal. We did not do anything wrong, no wrong in any case. And yet they arrest us. The American government... Actually this should be pushed from the American government. That will have tremendous effect. We should let the American government defend us.
Prabhupāda: Is the Consulate has come?
Prabhupāda: This report is already there.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Next, then the next is: "Probe Urged Into Krishna Cultists. Chief Minister Jyoti Basu has urged the Central Government to investigate how some of the foreign Vaiṣṇavas of Māyāpur temple of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness who clashed with the villagers last weekend could return to India after extradition from the country." And he's against us. Naturally, he's a big Communist. "In his report on the incident to Home Minister Charan Singh, Mr. Basu has drawn the Center's attention to reports that these foreigners came back to India by obtaining new passports and visas. This aspect, he felt, should be inquired into." He's against us. "The US Consulate visited the āśrama and met some of the American Vaiṣṇavas. The Consulate has not lodged any complaint with the government about the Friday incident."
Prabhupāda: I think he has gone.
Prabhupāda: That can be arranged. That is not...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think he feels it's safe enough.
Prabhupāda: No, no. This is incidental. This is not permanent problem.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't know what's behind it. I don't know the full reason why he doesn't want to stay there anymore.
Prabhupāda: If he wants to do business, how he can stay there?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. There's no business in Māyāpur.
Prabhupāda: What is business there?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He wants to go where there's a business center.
Prabhupāda: No, business means he must do business in some city.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Bombay.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. First thing is you get ghee.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We are already giving him one fifth of what Hari-śauri sends. "The newspapers gave some account of an incident in Māyāpur. When asked to make a statement to the press, however, I do not know what happened. Please let the secretary inform us." I made a copy of Jayapatāka's report, and I made five copies of it, so I'll send him one. I did it for this reason.
Prabhupāda: That's good.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then... "I hope this letter finds Your Divine Grace in good health."
Prabhupāda: It doesn't depend on my good or bad health. It is all spiritual news. Spiritually I become very much enlivened.
Yaśomatīnandana: Yes. So there is one member of Parliament in Gujarat who belongs to the party of the Home Minister. He was the chairman of party Lok Dal. It was Charan Singh's party. And he... I met him, and I explained to him that we wanted some citizenship for some devotees or something like that, and he mentioned it to Charan Singh when he came back from Delhi. And Charan Singh said that if it was... There's discussion, then definitely... I mean if there's no legal hitch, he will certainly help. Then I said but they want to come and meet you also. So he said, "Yes, you can bring them." So tomorrow... I came this week, and tomorrow the member says that we can meet him. Now I just heard that there was some news yesterday? So that... We will have to make two applications, one to clear up that incident...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So the member will come here to Vṛndāvana to see Prabhupāda?
Yaśomatīnandana: Yes, if I bring him he'll come.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is that nice, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Not bad.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Don't go to him. This Māyāpur incident is a handling of the Communists.
Yaśomatīnandana: Now there is Communist government there.
Prabhupāda: Please try to... Just try to understand. There is a story that a thief entered in a room, and the proprietor, he was in the other room. As soon as there was some sound, he inquired, "Who is there in that room?" The man said, "No, no, I am not stealing." You see? That means he is thief. So this voting board raised the question, "How they are getting visa?" In the Parliament also they are raising the same question. That means it is Communist manipulation, the Māyāpur affair. They put forward some Muhammadans because there are many Muhammadan Communist also. They wanted to give a communal color. But the whole thing is Communist plan. And their aim is to wipe out any religious movement. That is their open declaration in other Communist...
Prabhupāda: But I am sure this Māyāpur incident is a Communist plan. That is...
Yaśomatīnandana: Yes, that is sure.
Prabhupāda: There is no doubt.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Gopāla Kṛṣṇa has come.
Prabhupāda: Has he brought some books?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't know. I just got word that he was here.
Yaśomatīnandana: I think he has brought First Canto, Part Two, Hindi.
Prabhupāda: He is very slow, printing.
Abhirāma: Śrīla Prabhupāda? If this point was raised in Parliament, then that man could not be Jyotir Basu. That would be Jyotirmoy Basu. He is M.P. from West Bengal.
Prabhupāda: Nobel Prize-winner, another rascal has given him a Nobel Prize. He's a rascal; another rascal has given. Suri sākṣī mātāla.(?) In the liquor house the witness is the drunkard. What is value of the witness of a drunkard? Do you know suri sākṣī mātāla? There is some incident within the liquor shop, and the proprietor of the liquor shop has brought some witnesses. All of them are drunkards. (laughter) So what is value of this? Suri sākṣī mātāla. As soon as you are drunkard, immediately they are rejected. Surā dekhi nā saya nā.(?) The proprietor of the liquor shop has no more witness than the drunkard.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says here that "These great Nobel Prize-winners have made protoplasm from inert substances simulating the conditions that prevailed in the primitive atmosphere of the earth. Do they know that human egg and sperm cells can be fertilized in test tubes and the fetus developed in an artificial womb or in the womb of a hired woman? Among animals that evolved on this planet..."
Prabhupāda: So what is the benefit? There are millions of wombs. Why you should hire? If there is scarcity of womb, then we can hire. You rascal, you hire. You do not know. We see, without hiring there are millions of wombs, and they are producing.
Prabhupāda: It has become true.
Jayapatākā: Even after the incident, when Gopāla Kṛṣṇa went and saw the chief secretary of West Bengal, he requested him that "Please do not be discouraged by these incidents. Do not shift your plan from West Bengal. These things will all be settled up, and I'll see that there will be an impartial investigation and trial." The chief minister wrote a letter that his party... (break)
Prabhupāda: He wants to sell it. What does he want?
Jayapatākā: Right now he's asking... Actually right now he's more eager than ever to sell his land. The sādhu next to us, Praphulla Brahmacari, both of us, we met together, and we made a verbal agreement that we wouldn't give him any hope for purchasing his land at a high price. And as the result, now because of this incident... Before he had some hope that some outside person would come and buy land. But now the outside people, they don't want to purchase land at Māyāpur. So now he has no other hope than to sell either to us or to that brahmacārī. So now he's still asking four thousand. He's come from six to four.
Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I was somewhat disturbed after the incident, but I'm feeling much better now. After that, in the jail, and I was discouraged, I was feeling, "Oh, Śrīla Prabhupāda is working so hard to develop this Māyāpur, and the people don't appreciate it or... What is the use?" But that I think was... That's all gone now. So many people, they're coming, and books are being distributed. Increase.
Jayapatākā: Bhavānanda, when he... Just the day after he left here, there was a letter addressed to him. One gentleman wrote and said, "I am fifty years old and I am a M.A...." He was a professor of something. And he said, "Now my children are all grown up and I'm simply working. So I have heard that you are a pure Vaiṣṇava, so I want to take shelter and serve Kṛṣṇa at your āśrama." So although people are putting in paper so many things, but they are understanding that "No, he is a Vaiṣṇava." So people believe what they want to believe. So whatever... It's all that... The devotees are devotees. When we see people, they always say, (Bengali). They don't believe it that the report is true. Everyone doubts the reports. Only those that are of envious mind, they believe in, because they want to believe that.
Prabhupāda: What... (Bengali)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One thing I noticed though is that Mr. Goswami, the accountant, the cashier, and Mr. Dugal, when they were leaving, they seemed to be much more..., I don't know if you could say friendly, but they were far more respectful now. I think that they have been a little bit humbled by this incident. They always used to tell us that "We don't care for your money. You must follow the rules. Even if we lose your money, we don't care, but you must stick to the rules." But they seemed a little humbled today, a little changed in their view. I don't think that they ever suspected that they would lose our deposits like this. I think now they'll make much more of an effort. I would expect so. Right?
Girirāja: Oh, yes. Now they're going to make every effort not to annoy us in any way.
Prabhupāda: Very carefully deal, and as far as possible, don't keep money in the bank. Invest in books and expansion. That is my request. If you keep money, there will be so much trouble. So the current account and savings account, ten days' notice, these things are to be done.
Bhavānanda: In Krishnanagar. The magistrate who is hearing the case is a real gentleman, very kind, understanding. He had been to Māyāpur about three or four months before this incident. He came with his wife and children. We gave him very nice prasādam and showed him the movie "Hare Kṛṣṇa People." And on the 25th of November, that's Rāsa-pūrṇimā festival, and that is big day at Māyāpur. In three days probably over half million people will come to the temple. We sell so many books, magazines. It never used to be like that, Śrīla Prabhupāda, until you built this center. Now the Rāsa-pūrṇimā festival has turned into a big, big event in Bengal. Everyone comes to Māyāpur on pilgrimage, just like Dol-pūrṇimā. Thousands and thousands of people, they come.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, in Vṛndāvana, it's... (break)
Prabhupāda: (conversation with Ānanda Mahārāja-Bengali) (break) Who is here?
Prabhupāda: The pāṇḍās untimely changed the body?
Gaura-govinda: Untimely they changed. And it was the custom that King Purī-rāja, the king of Purī, would do cara-paraha,(?) this cleaning. But they ill-treated the Purī-rāja. There was some incident previously. So Purī-rāja was not present at that time. He left Purī, and he was somewhere else. So cara-paraha(?) was being done by this baḍa pāṇḍā, pūjā-pāṇḍā. Such mismanagement was there.
Prabhupāda: Who was baḍa pāṇḍā?
Gaura-govinda: There was one baḍa pāṇḍā. I don't know his name. One who does offerings.(?) He is chief of those pāṇḍās. And then, when this pulling of car... That took place just a few minutes before sunset. It was the custom that as soon as the sun set, there will be no pulling. Only Balarāma's car was pulled a few yards, dashed against a (indistinct), and four of the wheels were broken. So then it stopped. For two days there was no pulling unless it is repaired. Then for two days car stopped there. So on the third day it was pulled. The cars were pulled to the Guṇḍicā. Such things happened this year. And we were the only party who chanted before ratha from ten to four.
Prabhupāda: Only party means?
| Page Title: | Incident (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 03 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=80, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 80 |