Prabhupāda: Other belief, they are also based on the principle of love. That is actually not belief; that is misbelief. Because any religious principle... Just like Buddhism. Buddhism, actually, they do not believe in God, but they have love for Lord Buddha. So love is there. They may declare that "We don't believe in God," but they love Lord Buddha. And according to our Vedic scripture, Lord Buddha is also incarnation of God. So we interpret in this way, that Lord Buddha preached among the atheists by cheating them. Oh, how it is? That they did not believe in God, and Lord Buddha said, "Oh, yes, there is no God. But you love Me." So they are loving Lord Buddha. Similarly, there are many persons. They do not believe in family life, they do not believe in so many things, but love is there. He is sleeping with a cat, with a dog. So in no circumstances you can avoid love, but they are suffering because the love is misplaced and misused.
Incarnations of God (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"incarnation of god"
|"incarnation of godhead"
|"incarnation of the supreme lord"
|"incarnation of the supreme personality of godhead"
|"incarnations of god"
|"incarnations of godhead"
|"incarnations of the supreme lord"
|"incarnations of the supreme personality of godhead"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Svayaṁbhur nāradaḥ śaṁbhuḥ kumārāḥ kapilaḥ (SB 6.3.20). Kapila, Lord Kapila, the propounder of Sāṅkhya philosophy, he is also accepted as incarnation of God, Kapila. And Manu. Manu, father of mankind, who has given the Manu-saṁhitā, lawbook. In that law it is stated, na strīyāṁ svatantratam arhati: "Woman does not deserve independence." Manu has given this. Yes. This is Manu-smṛti. So Vedic culture means to follow the regulative principle.
Allen Ginsberg: So from Manu to Keśava Kāśmīrī is...
Prabhupāda: No, no. I am speaking the original authorities. So this Kumāra-sampradāya, he belonged, this Keśava Kāśmīrī, Kumāra-sampradāya. Now they are known as Rāmānuja, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, and Nimbārka. You have been in Vṛndāvana. You have seen the temple of Bankibihārī?
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: And nobody follows the eight principles of yoga system and simply sitting down and meditating, that will not help. The first two steps are yama, niyama, then āsana, then praṇāyāma, then pratyāhāra, then dhyāna, then dhāraṇā, then samādhi. These are explained in the yogic śāstra or Bhagavad-gītā. So this man, although born of a brāhmaṇa father... Now, here it is said that naṣṭa-sadācāra. Although he is born of a brāhmaṇa father, his ācāra, his dealings for advancing in spiritual life...A brāhmaṇa is expected to be truthful, to be self-controlled, to be fully cognizant of spiritual life, practical application in life, jñānam, vijñānam, āstikyam, to have complete faith in the statement of the śāstras. That is... That is called āstikyam. We, according to our Vedic system, we do not accept any other system of religion because we consider them nāstika. That is the primary principle. Nāstika means one who does not believe in the Vedas. He is called nāstika. Not that he does not believe in God. One may believe in God, but one who does not believe in the Vedic literature, he is called nāstika. Veda na manīyā bauddha haila nāstika. Lord Buddha, although he is accepted as incarnation of God, but because he defied the Vedic principles it is said, nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātaṁ.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: The Buddhists, they don't accept that verse. Kīkaṭeṣu bhaviṣyati, buddho nāmnāñjana-sutaḥ. They do not accept. About Buddha, in Hindu literature, Vedic literature, there is mention, bhaviśyati, feature(?). That is insult to them. Therefore, they do not accept this verse. Neither we say Buddha is incarnation of God. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra. They do not accept this. They think it is insult.
Dr. Kapoor: Insulting them.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Hindu gods... But in one Buddha temple, I have seen in Penang, there is Viṣṇu-mūrti. Yes, four hundred years old. That is a Buddhist temple.
Guru dāsa: Dr. Chandra has found many.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prabhupāda: Yes. About Lord Buddha is also mentioned in the śāstra that Lord Buddha will appear in Gayā Pradesh, in the province of Gayā, and his business will be to cheat the atheists. That is described. Now, how he is cheating? He is the incarnation of God, but he is preaching amongst people who don't believe in God. So he is cheating in this way, that "Yes, there is no God. You hear me." But he is God. The people amongst whom he is preaching, they don't believe in God, but they accept Lord Buddha. But he is God. So by cheating, he is making others to worship God. God is there. But superficially they think, "We don't believe in God. We believe in Lord Buddha." And Lord Buddha is God. Therefore in the Bhāgavata it is said that his business will be cheat the atheist class of men. Sura-dviṣām. Sammohita-sura-dviṣām. Sammohita means bewilder. But his philosophy is that to make the people sinless. Ahiṁsā. "Don't kill." That is the greatest sin. So he is propagating that "Let these people be saved from the greatest sinful activities." Lord Buddha appeared... He also appeared in India. Why? He was also Hindu.
Prabhupāda: "In the Vedas animal killing is sanctioned." So Lord Buddha appeared, just being compassionate to the poor animals. Sadaya-hṛdaya-darśita-paśu-ghātam. Sadaya. He became very compassionate, that "All these poor animals are being killed unnecessarily." So he promulgamated a new type of religion-ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ. "Don't commit violence. If I pinch your body, you feel pain. You should not pinch others." That is his religion. So, but, he... Because others, they will argue, "Oh, in the Vedas..." As I told you, that Vedas is the evidence, so "Here is... Animal killing is ordered. How you are stopping it?" Therefore he said, "I don't care for your Vedas." And because he did not care for the Vedas, therefore in India, later on, nobody accepted Buddha philosophy. Therefore Buddha philosophy has gone outside India-China, Burma, Japan—because here in India they are very strong in the standing of Vedas. Śaṅkarācārya established that "This Buddha philosophy is non-Vedic. It cannot be accepted." That was Śaṅkarācārya's propaganda. So by the propaganda of Śaṅkarācārya the Buddhism were driven away. There are so many things that one has to study. So Lord Buddha, we accept him as the incarnation of God. And his name is mentioned in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata.
Prabhupāda: You cannot create male aeroplane and female aeroplane so that you haven't got to manufacture a third one. The third one is produced. Why third one? Millions. And then from millions, another millions, another million. That is God's creation. That means He has got different energies. He pushes on one button of one energy and the production goes on. (Sanskrit) These are the Vedic explanation. His energies are so subtle. Just like nowadays electronic television button, you press, and thousands and thousands of miles away something is happening, you see. So if it is materially possible, it is nothing but exhibition of the energy of the human brain. So if human brain can exhibit such wonderful activities, how much God can do? He has got better brain, that's all, or the best brain. If you have got brain, that's all right, but He has got the best brain, param. Therefore He is called parampuruṣa, parameśvara. Parama means the best, the supreme. God is like you, like me. He has got also two hands, two legs, Kṛṣṇa. But His brain is different. Just like you are scientist; your brain is better than me, or his brain is better than you, and his brain is better than him. In this way you go on searching. When you find the brain which is no more better, that is God. That is God. As you are finding out better brain than you, he is better than his, he better than this—you go on researching—when you find out some brain which surpasses everyone and nobody surpasses Him, that is God. This is our definition of God. How can I deny it? We don't accept blindly anyone as God, incarnation of God. We want to see who has got the best brain, who has got the best opulence, who has got the best beauty, who has got the best knowledge, who has got the best friend. All combined together, if we find in some person, that is God. That we have found in Kṛṣṇa; therefore He is God.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That distinction is there between one living entity and another. You have got some power, others have got another power. That's tara-tama, means comparative and superlative... That is called tara-tama. (pause) There are varieties of potencies. All these potencies are visible, some in you, some in me, some in others. But all the varieties in full potency is in God. That is God. Not like this rascal incarnation of God. What is that, they came? Bālajī?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Guru Mahārāja?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not that. (laughs) That Kṛṣṇa was requested by His teacher that, when He was offering that "Now I am going home. What shall I present to you, guru-dakṣiṇā, giving to the guru?" So he requested, "Kṛṣṇa, I have heard that You are so powerful. I lost my two sons. If you bring them..." So Kṛṣṇa immediately went and brought them from within the ocean. This is God. Similarly, Devakī also requested Kṛṣṇa that "Kṛṣṇa, before Your birth I lost seven children. Your maternal uncle killed them. So I want... I have heard that You have returned back the sons of Your teacher. Why not my sons?" So He brought them. That is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa went to Kāraṇārṇavaśāyī Viṣṇu, penetrating the covering of this universe. Arjuna also went with Him. You know that?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Research means you admit that you are all fools and rascals. Research meant for whom? Who does not know. Otherwise where is the question of research? You do not know. You admit that. So so many mystic powers are there. You do not know how it is being done. Therefore you have to accept inconceivable power. And without accepting this principle of inconceivable power, there is no meaning of God. Not like that Bala-yogī became a God. So these are for the rascals, fools. But those who are intelligent, they will stress the inconceivable power. Just like we accept Kṛṣṇa as God—inconceivable power. We accept Rāma—inconceivable power. Not so cheaply. One rascal comes and says, "I am incarnation of God." Another rascal accepts. It is not like that. "Ramakrishna is God." We do not accept. We must see the inconceivable mystic power. Just like Kṛṣṇa, as a child, lifted a hill. This is inconceivable mystic power.
Prabhupāda: Our..., this book, Nectar of Devotion, that is a study book in the Temple University, Philadelphia. Similarly, our Kṛṣṇa Book, and what other books? They are...? Especially Kṛṣṇa Book and Nectar of Devotion. Bhagavad-gītā also, As It Is. (pause) We consider Lord Buddha also as incarnation of God.
Buddhist Monk (1): Yes, I know that. Of course, on this there's a difference of view between the orthodox Buddhists and that thinking. Because during the earlier days of Buddhist preaching there were certain differences of opinion. And the brāhmaṇa sections fell into various categories. Some of them were not very friendly, and others accepted quite a few of his, their teachings. And a third section, led by people like Sarikuta (?) and Munkali (?), Sanmukhala (?), they became followers as well. And, of course, so many things have been incorporated, kāma, krodha, lobha, kleśa, abhimāna. They are very similar to the teachings of the Buddha, and they are very progressive. Because lobha, lobha, lobha, lobha is at the root of our problems. (Sanskrit or Pali:) Tanhaya jayate soko, tanhaya jayate bhayak, tanhaya vipra mukta syat, nati soko ato bhayat. "Greed is the cause of suffering, greed is the cause of fear.
Prajāpati: ...śaktyāveśa-avatāra?
Prabhupāda: Guru is the mercy incarnation of God, mercy incarnation. God is kind to everyone, so He is teaching everyone from within, but still, to make it still more explicit, He sends His mercy in the form of guru.
Prajāpati: The śaktyāveśa-avatāra means Kṛṣṇa coming in a form of a living entity empowered by him for some special purpose.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Candanācārya: Guru is greater than śaktyāveśa-avatāra.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: He's a rascal. What potency he has got?
Dr. Patel: Who?
Prabhupāda: Any rascal who has called himself incarnation of God. There are so many rascals.
Mākhanalāl: Wasn't that Ramakrishna who said he gave away everything; he had nothing more except...
Prabhupāda: What Ramakrishna? Don't talk of these nonsense. Simply they have misled. That's all.
Dr. Patel: Simply you bhaja Kṛṣṇa and don't think anything else. And you get all your intelligence there.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Vyāsadeva is incarnation of God.
Dr. Patel:
- daṇḍo damayatām asmi
- nītir asmi jigīṣatām
- maunaṁ caivāsmi guhyānāṁ
- jñānaṁ jñānavatām aham
Prabhupāda: Nītir, by argument, by logic, when one becomes victorious, that victory is Kṛṣṇa, nītī. Without Kṛṣṇa...
Chandobhai: It is God's victory, not his.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Yac cāpi sarva-bhūtānāṁ bījaṁ tad aham arjuna. "There is... Seed in everything is, I am."
Prabhupāda: No, why trouble? Kṛṣṇa knows everything.
Dr. Patel: For himself. Arjuna is creating trouble for himself.
Prabhupāda: No, he is creating trouble for himself because the rascals will represent that "I am incarnation of God." Therefore Arjuna is asking him, "Now show me your virāṭ-rūpa." So these rascals, bewildered by these so-called gods, they should ask, "Show me your virāṭ-rūpa. Then I shall accept you." That is the process. Not that "I am incarnation of God." How you become incarnation? Just lift one hill. Or show me virāṭ-rūpa. Or show me that you have sixteen thousand wives and you are maintaining them in sixteen thousand palaces. Then you call yourself that "I am incarnation of Kṛṣṇa." Otherwise, you rascal, I cannot believe you. For them. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa... He knows what is Kṛṣṇa, but because in future some rascal will come and will say that "I am incarnation of God," therefore it is a warning that before accepting one rascal as incarnation, you ask him to show virāṭ-rūpa.
Prabhupāda: ...it is not māyā?
Dr. Patel: He had not said so.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Dr. Patel: If tomorrow these boys say that you are incarnation of God, is it your fault?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Dr. Patel: That is what it is. Tomorrow these boys say, after you pass away, that you are incarnation of God. It is not your fault. Like that, people will say so. I have not said so.
Prabhupāda: But that is going on. The other day one, another Swami Nārāyaṇa came. I ask him "Why there is no picture of Kṛṣṇa?"
Dr. Patel: That we will discuss after...
Prabhupāda: He also said like that. "No, because..."
Prabhupāda: This is another instruction. That I explained, that before accepting a so-called incarnation of God, one should ask him to show that "How you are God?" But they do not ask him. A group of persons... Because he is accepted by a group of persons, not by all... There are so many avatāras. But who knows them?
Dr. Patel: Shall I read?
Prabhupāda: Let us understand it. Don't be anxious to go forward. This is the..., that... Suppose a man declares himself that "I am avatāra." So intelligent man should test him, how he is avatāra. We accept Kṛṣṇa or Lord Rāmacandra for their uncommon activities. But what is the uncommon activities, so many avatāras? Simply being praised by a group of persons. That's all. Yes.
Prabhupāda: So this is, this is... You can... Mama deha. So the so-called incarnations of God, they should show in their body all these things. They must be accepted by the śāstra that he is avatāra. Otherwise, why so cheap avatāra, we shall accept?
Girirāja: (reads synonyms)
Prabhupāda: (interrupting) Altogether.
Dr. Patel: Kṛtsnam means all, complete.
Prabhupāda: Yes, so that means there are innumerable universes and that was exhibited by Kṛṣṇa in His boyhood.
Girirāja: (continues synonyms) "adya-immediately;" (etc.)
Prabhupāda: What the modern scientists will say, that the..., all the universes were shown in the body of Kṛṣṇa. So what is the, I mean to say, what is called, action, reaction, reaction of the modern scientists?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that rascaldom is going on. And our society is protesting. Therefore we are enemy of everyone. Because we are protesting against this. "You cannot do this. You cannot do this." As soon as say, "Oh, why you are decrying? He is also incarnation of God." What kinds of God? A rascal, we shall accept incarnation of God? You see? I am not so fool. Kṛṣṇa says that... What is that? Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajanti anya-devatāḥ: (BG 7.20) "A person who is lost of his intelligence, he worships demigods." And a person worshiping a demigod, he becomes God. Just see. He's a nonsense, naṣṭa-buddhayaḥ, because he is worshiping demigod, and by worshiping demigod he became God. Where is this in the śāstra? This rascaldom is going on. First of all, anyone who worships a demigod, he is a rascal. And it is advertised "By worshiping such and such demigod, a rascal has become God." And we have to accept that. We are not so foolish. First of all, he is a rascal, he has no knowledge. And one who has no knowledge and rascal, and he has become God. We have to accept that.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Our... Yes. Theoretically atheistic, but because they believe in Lord Buddha, they are theistic. Because we accept Lord Buddha as incarnation of God, Kṛṣṇa.
Cardinal Pignedoli: Also some of them, they believe in... They think Buddha is a god, and they are believers.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Buddha is God. That is stated. You will find?
Cardinal Pignedoli: Excuse me if I go back for a moment to this question which is not that I ask if you are, excuse it, if you go only to some, you go to all the people. I agree this is not (indistinct). But because we are few... I give an example. Why, instead of going, suppose, to South Africa where the majority, the great majority, are believers, you don't go to Japan?
Prabhupāda: Yes, we go.
Prof. Regamay: Now there are some schools of Buddhists who are worshiping Buddha like a God.
Prabhupāda: Yes, He is God. He is God. They don't accept Buddha as incarnation of God. But from Vedas we understand that He is incarnation of God.
Prof. Regamay: But he brought to the world the ahiṁsā, but I think ahiṁsā appears already in the Bhagavad-gītā. But there was ahiṁsā also by the Jains.
Prabhupāda: Ahiṁsā, because at that time people were killing animals in the name of yajña. Just like in the Christian world the order is not to kill, but still, they are killing. So this misuse of scriptural injunction is always going on. A class of men there are who abuse the scriptural injunctions and go on with their own motive. So there was a period when people, under the protection of Vedas... Because Vedas, animal sacrifice is recommended for certain purpose, to test the proper chanting of Vedic mantras. The animal was not killed. The animal was put into the fire. Then again it would come out with new life. That is the proper chanting of the Vedic mantras.
Prabhupāda: So he condemned, "No, no. I don't care for your Vedas." So he defied Vedic injunction. Because otherwise, he could not establish his theory of nonviolence. The violence, in a certain way, is recommended in the Vedas. So if he says, "No violence," then it is against Vedas. Therefore he had to declare, "No, no, I don't follow the Vedic injunction." And because he did not, he publicly declared that "I don't follow Vedic injunction," therefore he is taken as atheist. Atheist means who does not take the authority of the Vedas. Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. But he did it. He is all-powerful. He can do it. Why? Sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. We worship him like that. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa. From philosophical point of view, he is taken as atheist. But we Vaiṣṇava we know that He is God. He is God, incarnation of God.
Prabhupāda: There is no different religion. As soon as one tries to understand different religion, it is to be concluded that he does not know what is religion. That religion cannot be different. Religion is one. God is one. And the order given by God, that is religion. But "different" means according to time and circumstances... Just like Lord Buddha, he is giving the same religion. He is God, incarnation of God. He is asking, "Just obey Me." The same philosophy is being taught by Kṛṣṇa, "Surrender unto Me." That is religion. Buddha also says "Surrender unto Me. Obey Me." So that is religion. Yes. So the religion is... One who knows God and surrenders to Him, that is religion, and anything, that is all cheating. Anything else, that is all cheating. That is not religion. This is religion. God is one, and surrender to God, that is religion. That's all. You take any religion, it doesn't matter. If one has learned what is God and how to surrender to Him, that is religion.
Bhagavān: Are you a demon? (French)
Pṛthu Putra: As we want.
Prabhupāda: No, so far we know, Lord Buddha is considered as incarnation of God. He was sympathetic with the animal-killing. So he wanted to stop this animal-killing. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says he thinks that Buddha was just a man who was searching how to solve the problems of death and life, and when he got some experience he preached this message.
Karandhara: Yes, the Zen school don't accept the preeminence of the personality of Buddha. They say Buddha is just a state of mind, and various men in history have attained that state of mind, that no one particular man was the Buddha, set apart from everyone else.
Prabhupāda: At least, he set the example before others. That is not wonderful, but he set the example. Therefore he is original Buddha. (French)
Lady (3): (French)
Yogeśvara: When we say Kṛṣṇa, are we speaking about God or an incarnation of God? How to define it?
Prabhupāda: No, God Himself.
Lady (4): (French)
Yogeśvara: Then what is the meaning of the word ātmā?
Prabhupāda: Ātmā means also God. Ātmā means this body. Ātmā means this mind. Ātmā means the soul, and ātmā means also God. Ātmā means the active principle which is working. Just like in you the ātmā is there, therefore your body is moving. Similarly, the active principle of the whole cosmic manifestation is God.
Guest (2): (French)
Yogeśvara: What is the meaning of the different cakras?
Prabhupāda: Different?
Prabhupāda: To become God conscious is not difficult. Simply one has to learn how to practice it. That's all. Everything stated. Find out that verse. Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ. (pause) Who will not respect Jesus Christ? He sacrificed everything for God, even his life. So who is that rascal that he'll not respect to Jesus Christ. What did he do wrong to the human society? He did everything for the good of the human society. Oh, I have got very, very, great respect for Lord Jesus Christ. Not only... Every, I mean to say, God conscious man, he must have respect for Jesus Christ. There is no doubt about it. My Guru Mahārāja had very great respect for Muhammad, Jesus Christ... We pray Lord Buddha. Although he preached atheistic philosophy, but we know that he's incarnation of God. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. So a Vaiṣṇava is godly. He is qualified with all good qualities. That is Vaiṣṇava. That is Vaiṣṇava. He knows the value of each and everything. Therefore he's godly. And therefore to offer respect to Vaiṣṇava is also a great qualification. Even to offer respect to the Vaiṣṇavas is greater qualification than one who simply offers respect to God.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Well, that is another thing, but first of all we have to know who is spiritual master. The spiritual master is he, samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12), one who is exclusively servant of God, he is spiritual master. Otherwise anyone will come and say, "I am spiritual master." Anyone will come say, "I am incarnation of God." So there is standard. That we have to find out.
Devotee (1): Most of the people are still ignoring God. They are so weak-willed. They are so weak-willed that they are easily swayed by, you know, when somebody comes and claims that...
Prabhupāda: Well, if one is weak, he may be infected by some disease. It requires some resisting power. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that, your answer, that "Only the fortunate person, they can get the shelter of bona fide spiritual master." Kona bhāgyavān jīva. Not all, kona. Kona means some.
Prabhupāda: (Aside to devotee:) You come here. I do not follow the accent, you hear and tell.
Guest: What would be important was Kṛṣṇa teachings. One must, could not be confined to any one period of time. He is incarnation of God and somebody who was talking for the truth and in the name of the truth, and... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...fact is that if you have got different views about Kṛṣṇa, then you cannot prove that from the Bhagavad-gītā. That you cannot prove. If you take Bhagavad-gītā, then you must present it as it is. Don't distort it. You may have got some idea, but you explain that idea in your different book. But don't place it as the explanation of Bhagavad-gītā. That is not very good. If you have got different theory, you can write in a different book. But we cannot permit or do not like that as the commentary of Bhagavad-gītā you will place something different. That is not very honest. You put your own theory. Why should you try to put your theory through Bhagavad-gītā? That we protest. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly said that "There is no superior authority than Me."
Prabhupāda: That is a warning to the future fools and rascals that even God does not like to be addressed as God. But we address Him as God on the strength of śāstra. Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣā kṛṣṇaṁ saṅgo-paṅgastra... (SB 11.5.32), yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtanaiḥ. Here is the incarnation of God. That is... Śāstra says. So out of His humbleness, He may say like that, but we should know by following the ācāryas, by śāstra. Sādhu-śāstra-guru vākya. Guru accepts Him God; śāstra accepts Him God; sādhu accepts Him God.
Acyutānanda: The people say that just like Rāmakrishna, the disciples presented Him as God, but He never said He was God.
Prabhupāda: But then where is the śāstra? Three things: the devotee or saintly person, śāstra and guru. He has no guru. He has no support from the śāstra. (laughs) So he's a fool, rascal number one, and he is God. He was a illiterate priest. He had no knowledge of śāstra. Besides that, in the śāstra it is said that "Those who are worshiping other demigods, their intelligence is lost." So he was worshiping Kālī. So he had no intelligence or spiritual realization, and he became God? So these things can be accepted by other fools and rascals. But those who follow śāstra, they will reject immediately.
Prabhupāda: Now, what is Kṛṣṇa? How Kṛṣṇa is accepted? Is He accepted as the Supreme Lord?
Yogi Bhajan: Kṛṣṇa is accepted as incarnation of God.
Prabhupāda: Well, incarnation of God and God, there is no difference.
Yogi Bhajan: That's it. Also there is a fundamental message in that, that as God created everyone, God created all of us, and in Sikh dharma God, whatever we want to call it, ultimate reality, beyond sunya-samadha, the truth, and Lord Kṛṣṇa in His incarnation taught, Lord Rāma taught. And what our problem at this time at the humanity is: the humanity is divided in many forms. And it is the inner hatred which people want to expel (spell?) out.
Prabhupāda: Mahā. Mahā means very great. So unless one has very big understanding, he cannot understand God. God is unlimited. So you have (to) come to that platform to understand. Those who are limited, they cannot understand God. That is not possible. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye, yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3). Siddha. Siddha means one who has become unlimited, Brahman, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, Brahman realization. So Kṛṣṇa says, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu: "Out of many millions of person," kaścid yatati siddhaye, "somebody is trying to become unlimited." And yatatām api siddhānāṁ: (BG 7.3) "Those who have become unlimited, out of millions of them, one can understand Me, Kṛṣṇa." So Kṛṣṇa understanding, God understanding.... When I say Kṛṣṇa, God. God understanding is for the perfect unlimited, not for common man. Common man should accept the ācāryas. They must follow. Ācāryopāsanam. Just like in India the Sikhs, they follow Guru Nanak. So Guru Nanak says, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa, incarnation of God." So they should accept, that's all. Not that every Sikh is expected to be unlimited as Guru Nanak. That is not expected. But they should follow Guru Nanak. Then they will understand. Guru Nanak says, "Kṛṣṇa is incarnation of God." The all the Sikhs should accept, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is..." Then it is all right. It is not expected that every Sikh will understand Kṛṣṇa. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186).
Member: Only through you they will get that. Only people like you can relate with... It is dormant. The soul is there, and it is in a dormant stage. Unless it is kindled, it cannot have light. People like you can kindle them. And it is really our fortune that we are having Swamiji with us. There was some ṛṣi. Even our Samanja Ācārya(?) or his guru, they were not able to carry this outside India. But you are able to, with all your... I think you are... Is it not said that you are an incarnation of God or you are deputy of God, is it?
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Don't say like that.
Member: You are deputy of God, and He is making you true. Swamiji will be staying here for another two months?
Prabhupāda: Yes. I wish to.
Prabhupāda: No. Para-dāreṣu. Mātravat para-dareṣu. That is the injunction of the śās... Other's wife. Not that "Oh, my wife is also my mother." Just see. This lunacy is going on, and this lunatic man is taken as incarnation of God. This is going on. This homosex propaganda is another side of impotency. So that is natural. If you enjoy too much, then you become impotent.
Brahmānanda: They are trying to make that more and more accepted in America, homosex.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The churches accept. It is already law.
Nitāi: This women's liberation movement, the leaders are also homosexual. They're lesbians.
Prabhupāda: No, everyone should be rājarṣi. Otherwise he has no power to become king. He should be rejected. There are instances. Just like Vena Mahārāja. He was not rājarṣi, so he was killed by the brāhmaṇas: "Get down." There are instances. Then Pṛthu Mahārāja became king.
Dr. Patel: Pṛthu was the incarnation of God.
Prabhupāda: :Yes. So king is supposed to be representative of God if not incarnation.
Dr. Patel: That's right. Then he is above law.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Because God is above law. But these people are representatives of the foolish, ignorant majority, and majority is made up of fools. Wise people are few.
Prabhupāda: That is the difficulty. Jaya. Fools' paradise. Eh?
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Satsvarūpa: "As a native of India now living in the West, it has given me much grief to see so many of my fellow countrymen coming to the West in the role of gurus and spiritual leaders. Just as any ordinary man in the West becomes conscious of Christian culture from his very birth, any ordinary man in India becomes familiar with the principles of meditation and yoga from his very birth. Unfortunately, many unscrupulous persons come from India, exhibit their imperfect and ordinary knowledge of yoga, cheat the people with their wares consisting of mantras, and present themselves as incarnations of God. So many of these cheaters have come, convincing their foolish followers to accept them as God, that those who are actually well versed and learned in Indian culture have become very concerned and troubled. For this reason I am very excited..."
Prabhupāda: Send this copy to Indira Gandhi.
Jay Warner: I do have one question. How can one establish faith in the principle of reincarnation? How can one come to believe in it?
Prabhupāda: Incarnation of God?
Devotees: Reincarnation, transmigration.
Prabhupāda: That is very simple thing. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Now, you were a child. That's a fact. Were you not a child?
Hṛdayānanda: You were a child before.
Jay Warner: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Where is that body?
Jay Warner: Where is the body of the child?
Prabhupāda: Yes. You were a child. Where is that body?
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Don't divert your attention.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: " 'I shall never be alone,' one should think. 'Even if I live in the darkest regions of a forest, I shall be accompanied by Kṛṣṇa, and He will give me all protection.' That conviction is called abhayam, 'without fear.' This state of mind is necessary for a person in the renounced order of life. Then he has to purify his existence. There are so many rules and regulations to be followed in the renounced order of life. Most important of all, a sannyāsī is strictly forbidden to have any intimate relationship with a woman. He is even forbidden to talk with a woman in a secluded place. Lord Caitanya was an ideal sannyāsī, and when He was at Purī His feminine devotees could not even come near to offer their respects. They were advised to bow down from a distant place. This is not a sign of hatred for women as a class, but it is a stricture imposed on a sannyāsī not to have close connections with women. One has to follow the rules and regulations of a particular status of life in order to purify his existence. For a sannyāsī, intimate relations with a woman and possessions of wealth for sense gratification are strictly forbidden. The ideal sannyāsī was Lord Caitanya Himself, and we can learn from His life that He was very strict in regards to women. Although He is considered to be the most liberal incarnation of Godhead, accepting the most fallen conditioned souls, He strictly followed the rules and regulations of the sannyāsa order of life in connection with association with women.
Prabhupāda: Vedānta-kṛd, I am the compiler of Vedānta. Why these rascals do not take who compiled Vedānta? Vyāsadeva is the incarnation of God. He compiled Vedānta. Why he does not take the original Vedantist. Here it is clearly stated, vedānta-kṛd. Read the purport.
Hari-śauri: "Translation: I am seated in everyone's heart and from Me comes remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness. By all the Vedas am I to be known. Indeed, I am the compiler of Vedānta and I am the knower of the Vedas."
Prabhupāda: So they do not go to the compiler of Vedānta. They go to a rascal. How they will understand Vedānta? Suppose I have written this book. If you cannot understand something, if you come directly to me, that is real. Why do you go to a rascal who has nothing to do with this book? If some rascal claims that "I am Vedanti," so your description should... Why shall I not go to the real compiler of Vedānta. Why shall I go to a rascal? That means they are rascals.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Thinking themselves all in all, not caring for any authority or scripture, the demoniac sometimes perform so-called religious or sacrificial rites. And since they do not believe in authority, they are very impudent. This is due to illusion caused by accumulating some wealth and false prestige. Sometimes such demons take up the role of preacher, mislead the people, and become known as religious reformers or as incarnations of God. They make a show of performing sacrifices and they worship the demigods, or manufacture their own God. Common men advertise them as God and worship them, and by the foolish they are considered advanced in the principles of religion, or in the principles of spiritual knowledge. They take the dress of the renounced order of life and engage in all nonsense in that dress.
Prabhupāda: To delude them. Read the purport.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "Lord Buddha, a powerful incarnation of the Personality of Godhead, appeared in the province of Gayā (Bihar) as the son of Añjanā, and he preached his own conception of nonviolence and deprecated even the animal sacrifices sanctioned in the Vedas. At the time when Lord Buddha appeared, the people in general were atheistic and preferred animal flesh to anything else. On the plea of Vedic sacrifice, every place was practically turned into a slaughterhouse, and animal killing was indulged in unrestrictedly. Lord Buddha preached nonviolence, taking pity on the poor animals. He preached that he did not believe in the tenets of the Vedas and stressed the adverse psychological effects incurred by animal killing. Less intelligent men of the age of Kali, who had no faith in God, followed his principle, and for the time being they were trained in moral discipline and nonviolence, the preliminary steps for proceeding further on the path of God realization. He deluded the atheists because such atheists who followed his principles did not believe in God, but they kept their absolute faith in Lord Buddha, who himself was the incarnation of God.
Prabhupāda: Which altar? This Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Lord Nityānanda, we are worshiping Him.
Rāmeśvara: The two figures on the throne of the altar represent an incarnation of God named Lord Caitanya and Lord Nityānanda, and They both appeared in India approximately five hundred years ago. They are incarnations of God, God Himself, who descends into this world. So those forms represent the Supreme Lord. Therefore we are worshiping Them. And below, on the step, are the pictures of the spiritual masters coming in the disciplic succession from Lord Caitanya when He appeared in this world five hundred years ago.
Prabhupāda: So tomorrow I shall take lunch at 1:00. That's all. Then, by 3:00 o'clock, I shall be ready. (to Indian man:) (Hindi?) Kṛṣṇa is preparing you to join this movement wholeheartedly. It is very nice. Now you have got it?
Jayādvaita: Yes. Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja quotes, ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). "All these incarnations of Godhead are either plenary portions or parts of the plenary portions of the puruṣa-avatāras, but Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself." Then he says, "The Bhāgavatam describes the symptoms and deeds of the incarnations in general and counts Śrī Kṛṣṇa among them. This made Sūta Gosvāmī greatly apprehensive. Therefore he distinguished each incarnation by its specific symptoms. All the incarnations of Godhead are plenary portions or parts of the plenary portions of the puruṣa-avatāras, but the primeval Lord is Śrī Kṛṣṇa. He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the fountainhead of all incarnations. An opponent may say, 'This is your interpretation, but actually the Supreme Lord is Nārāyaṇa, who is in the transcendental realm. He, Nārāyaṇa, incarnates as Lord Kṛṣṇa. This is the meaning of the verse as I see it.
Prabhupāda: That is decided by Bhāgavatam, ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28), that tu, the name Kṛṣṇa, in the incarnation of God, Kṛṣṇa is also included, but this Kṛṣṇa is the origin.
Indian man:
- īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
- sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ
- anādir ādir govindaḥ
- sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam
- (Bs. 5.1)
Prabhupāda: So we have to take the direction. So that is also explained. Even if you say, "Kṛṣṇa is Vāmana," there is nothing wrong. If you believe that Kṛṣṇa is incarnation of Viṣṇu, there is nothing wrong.
Indian man: I don't believe that.
Prabhupāda: No, no, others. Others...
Prabhupāda: Yes. We accept Lord Buddha as incarnation of God. Show in our books that we have got all respect for Buddha. We do not disrespect Lord Buddha, neither go against him. Anyway, if we get one house to live and a supporter, a big supporter, then our position will be secure. And if our cause is honest, then nobody can check.
Devotee (1): He has said that first I should come and speak to the Prime Minister and then speak at the University, and then see the reaction, and then we can go to see the king and say that this has been the reaction at the universities.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Do it organizedly. They understand French language?
Devotee (1): Yes, English and French. They are very close to Vietnam.
Prabhupāda: Very good. Take this opportunity.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa is... That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). All incarnation of God is described, and the summary is given at the end that all these names, Rāma, Nṛsiṁha, Varāha, and so many, hundreds and thousands, so all of them are Kṛṣṇa's plenary portion or portion of the plenary portion. Ete ca aṁśa-kalāḥ. And this Kṛṣṇa, tu bhagavān, He is the original. Ete ca aṁśa-kalāḥ. And this Kṛṣṇa, tu bhagavān, He is the original. Ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). It is clearly stated. And Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad-gītā, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). There are many incarnation of God. So many incarnations that you cannot count even. Just like it is said in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that like you cannot count the waves of the river, similarly you cannot count how many incarnations are there. But Bhāgavata gives you the information that all these incarnations, innumerable incarnations, they are portions or part of the portions. But kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam.
Prabhupāda: You have to read the subject matter. Even if he thinks that it is written by Bopadeva, such a great knowledge, one has to read. Such great knowledge is not possible by Bopadeva and unless... He is incarnation of God, Vyāsadeva. It is said... (indistinct) Not this. (indistinct)
Mahāṁsa: Which volume do you want, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Second volume. Varīyān eṣa...
Harikeśa: Second Canto, Part One, verse one.
Prabhupāda: Find out this. Varīyān eṣa...
Prabhupāda: Andhra. Hmm. Dear Sai Baba, just recently in the Blitz paper, published on—give the date—we were surprised to find one article "God is an Indian." And you have claimed to become an incarnation of God to save the human society. What is the ground of your claiming as incarnation? And what you have done to save the human society? Will you explain for enlightenment of us. Or many of us. We have got the list of incarnations recorded in the Vedic scriptures and their respective activities also. So where is that record in the Vedic scripture about your appearing as incarnation? Lord Kṛṣṇa's incarnation is fully described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Lord Kṛṣṇa's incarnationship or give... What it should be?
Pradyumna: Lord Kṛṣṇa's incarnation...
Prabhupāda: Remain as person in the future. So without knowing all this knowledge, a mūḍha accepts the incarnation of God as coming from imperson. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). Under this heading you have proved yourself to become a mūḍha. And how a mūḍha or an ass can become the incarnation of God? Then? Read that Blitz paper, one after another.
Pradyumna: Then, this is the end of his quote and then the editor, the writer is speaking. "This may appear an extraordinarily controversial claim to those unfamiliar with the spiritual depths of Hindu religio-philosophy. The latter totally accepts the avatāra concept which broadly means the descent of the divine principle into human affairs. In the Bhagavad-gītā Lord Kṛṣṇa intervenes to say..."
Prabhupāda: That is the editor's.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: We accept him as avatāra, śaktyāveśa-avatāra, empowered incarnation of God. That we accept.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. He says, "Like any other revealed scripture, the Bible's teachings are absolute, but are they to be understood literally or symbolically, and are they applicable for all men?"
Prabhupāda: Literally, not symbolically.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "What is the actual meaning of the sacrifice of the cross, Jesus dying on the cross?"
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes Kṛṣṇa comes to Bengal. (laughter)
Bhagatji: But in a devotee form.
Prabhupāda: Just like government has got a house. So when the governor comes, he comes in that house. Similarly India is the bhūmi, and whenever incarnation of God or God Himself comes... (break) ...discussion.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We didn't discuss last night, but it was agreed that it was a good idea. In about three weeks it's cooler here. In Māyāpura there is nice weather. (indistinct) (end)
| Page Title: | Incarnations of God (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 22 of Jul, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=49, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 49 |