But our philosophy is different. Our philosophy is that as there are varieties in this material world, there are varieties in the spiritual world. That varieties. Just like the sky. In the sky, there are varieties. There are different kinds of planets, floating in the sky. Ordinarily seeing, in daytime, we see the sky is vacant. How it is vacant? It is not vacant. It is the defect of my eyes that I cannot see the varieties. The vari... At night we can see the varieties. There are so many planets, so many stars. And each of them full of varieties. Just like this planet. It is, we learn from the śāstra. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudādhi bhinnam (Bs. 5.40). There are innumerable universes. This universe is one only. And each and every universe, there are millions of planets. And each of them has got special significance. Just like this Moon planet, the Sun planet, this Earth planet, each one has got significance. Here, the bodies are earthly. In the Sun planet, the bodies are fire. Fiery. Similarly in the Moon planet, the bodies are different. Each and every planet.
In the spiritual world (Lectures, Other)
Expressions researched:
"in the spiritual world"
|"into the spiritual world"
|"within the spiritual world"
Lectures
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
They do not know. They want to go with this body to the Moon planet. That is not possible. Just like if you want to live in the water with this body. That is not possible. You have to get a body suitable for living in the water. So that you have to prepare. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). These people are going to the Moon planet. Trying to go. They have not gone. But they do not know that with this body they cannot live there. That is not possible. They are, they might be going to the Moon planet in the deserted portion. And they're coming back. But Moon planet is not desert. We get information. It is one of the heavenly planets. So they, they are not going to the right place. That we have suggested in many places. So anyway, there are varieties. As there are varieties within this material world, similarly there are varieties in the spiritual world. This material world is only a reflection of the spiritual world. So unless we merge into, unless we get shelter in one of the planets of the spiritual world, if we simply merge into the Brahman effulgence, we cannot stay there for long.
So that is not our ultimate goal. The ultimate goal is to take shelter unto the lotus feet of the Lord. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas (SB 10.2.32). Simply to concoct that I become, I have become liberated. And, that... Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. They, those who are thinking that they have become liberated simply by merging into the Brahman effulgence, they are aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ, they are still, their intelligence is not very clear, not purified. Why? Now, although they have gone there, and thinking that they are liberated, āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ patanti (SB 10.2.32), they'll fall down. They cannot remain there. Because there is no varieties. And our life, because we are living entities, we want varieties. Without varieties, it is hackneyed. We cannot stay there. Therefore they fall down. Those who merge into the Brahman effulgence, they fall down. Go on. Therefore a bhakta does not accept the Brahman, brahmānanda. Brahmānanda, they know. Brahmānanda is, there is brahmānanda. That is liberation from the material ānanda. But unless one is engaged in sevānanda, service of the Lord, this brahmānanda will not be sufficient to keep him in the spiritual world.
Therefore it is to be understood that the love with Kṛṣṇa in the platform of mādhurya-rasa, vātsalya-rasa, sākhya-rasa, dāsya-rasa, śānta-rasa, that is the real platform, in the spiritual world. And because the love affairs are there in the Absolute, that is reflected in this relative world. And here is also the same love is there, but it is not very palatable. It is not without any fault. There are so many faults. Therefore real love can be reciprocated with Kṛṣṇa. In the material world, there cannot be any real love. Therefore the real love cannot be appreciated with our, this material senses. Whatever we appreciate or experience by the material senses, that is not love, that is lust. Motive. There is some motive. One is friend of another person, very intimate friends, both of them have got some motive. As soon as the motive is frustrated, they separate. These things, we find. Even husband and wife, as soon as the sense gratification is disturbed, immediately there is divorce between husband and wife. So... (aside, in response to background noise:) What is this outside?
So everyone can have Kṛṣṇa as his sons. Everyone can have Kṛṣṇa as his friend. Everyone can have Kṛṣṇa as his master. Dak, dāsya-rasa, sākhya-rasa, mādhurya-rasa. Even everyone can have Kṛṣṇa as their paramour. These things are very difficult to understand, but these rasas... They are called rasas. Parakīya-rasa. The parakīya-rasa means just like a man or woman has got his husband or wife, but he has got love with others. That is called parakīya-rasa. That is most abominable in this material world, but that is most first-class thing in the spiritual world. Parakīya-rase yāṅhā brajete pracāra. So these things are very higher principles of spiritual life. But we can understand that whatever we are experiencing in this material world, that thing, in its pure form, is existing in the Supreme Absolute. That is the fact. Otherwise they cannot be manifested in this material... Just like on the bank of a tank, pond, there is a tree, and you find the tree just upverted. The upper portion of the tree has gone down. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Find out in the Fifteenth Chapter: ūrdhva-mūlam adhah-śākhaṁ aśvatthaṁ prāhur avyayam (BG 15.1). Find out this verse. This material world is the reflection, urdhva mulam. Generally the tree has got its root down, but the material world... So... It is described as a big banyan tree, but the root is upwards.
That is mukti. Bhukti, mukti and siddhi. And the yogis, they want siddhi, aṣṭa-siddhi. Aṇimā, laghimā. They can become more smaller than the smallest, bigger than the biggest. Prāpti, īśitā vaśitā prākāmya. There are eight kinds of siddhis the yogis can attain. But a devotee does not want all these things. He has no demand. These are the three demands: bhukti-mukti-siddhi. But devotee has no demand. That is the special qualification. Devotee never demands anything. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja, as soon as appeared Kṛṣṇa, he said: svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce (CC Madhya 22.42). "I don't say." So this is pure devotee. And as soon as you become pure devotee, then your love for Kṛṣṇa becomes actual fact in the spiritual world, and you can associate with Kṛṣṇa in conjugal love or as parent, or as friend, or as servant, in whatever... Or as trees or flower, as a water, as you desire. That is perfection of life. This is the perfection of bhakti.
So our philosophy is that once going into the ocean, no more coming back. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). That is our philosophy. If we once go in the spiritual world, we do not like to come back. We stay with Kṛṣṇa and dance with Him, or play with Him, or serve with, serve Him as tree, as plant, as water, as cows, as land, as cowherd boys, as father, mother, or as gopīs. This is our philosophy. Once we go to Kṛṣṇa, we live forever with Him in either of these capacities. Let me live at Vṛndāvana in any capacity. It doesn't matter. But live there. Therefore he says that "He further prays that by residing in that ocean of nectar he may always feel eternally continually, without any cessation..." Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). To remain ānandamaya. That is the principle of Vaiṣṇava philosophy.
The material variety is the perverted reflection of the spiritual variety. As it is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, Fifteenth Chapter: ūrdhva-mūlam adhah-śākha. This tree, this material world (is) compared with a aśvattha vṛkṣa. The root is up, upstairs, upwards, and the branches and leaves are down, downwards. Why? Because it is reflection, chaya, or māyā. The real tree is in the Vaikuṇṭha planet or in the spiritual world. It is only simply reflection. Just like a tree standing on the bank of reservoir of water, on the bank of a lake or a river, you'll see the tree is reflected downwards. So this description in the Fifteenth Chapter of this material world, downwards... Ūrdhva-mūlam adhah-śākha means this is only a perverted reflection of the spiritual world. The real tree is in the spiritual world. The other day, who was asking about this question? Some of our...? Ūrdhva-mūlam adhah-śākha? Who was asking me? Eh? Oh. Gopāla. He's not here. All right.
As soon as the payment will be stopped, there will be no more service. Therefore it is a perverted reflection of that service attitude in the Vaikuṇṭha planet. And similarly we have seen there is..., there was high-court cases between mother and the sons, and they spent lots of money. Still they could not come into conclusion. The motherly affection, the paternal affection, just simply a shadow. It appears to be true because the truth is elsewhere. Just like in the desert it appears there is a great, vast mass of water, but actually there is no water. But that does not mean there is no water. The impression of water is there because there is actually water somewhere. Similarly, we are trying to taste the five rasas in this material world. Because actually these rasas are there in the spiritual world. This is only reflection. Ūrdhva-mūlam adhah-śākha. And because in the spiritual world it is a fact, we are taking these false things as fact, these temporary things as fact. Actually it is not fact. Go on.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
So there is no difference between these different phases of loving affair, but great devotees and learned scholars, they have given their decision that the loving affairs of Kṛṣṇa in the conjugal platform between husband and wife, or above that, between lover and beloved... That is very much prominent in the Western countries, friend, boyfriend, girlfriend. In the spiritual world that platform of remaining as friend without marriage, that is considered as the highest. And whatever we see here—a perverted reflection of that loving affairs. Just like perverted reflection... It is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, ūrdhva-mūlam adho-śākha aśvatthaṁ prāhur avyayam. This material world has been described as having its root up, ūrdhva-mūlam adho-śākha, and the branches down. We have several times explained this ūrdhva-mūlam adho-śākha. In the material world this is a shadow. Unless it is shadow, how the mūlam, or the root, can be upwards? We have got experience: a tree on the bank of a river. The tree is reflected adho-śākha, on the root upward, shadow. So this is shadow. Real thing is in the spiritual world. Therefore it is called adho-śākha. Śākha. In the spiritual world the topmost part is this conjugal love, and here, the same thing, when pervertedly reflected, it is the lowest abominable thing. We should know this, that in the spiritual world, to remain as girlfriend and boyfriend, that is the topmost pleasure, and in the material world, the same thing is the most abominable thing. Therefore it is adho-śākha. We cannot imitate the loving affairs of Kṛṣṇa and Rādhārāṇī unless we understand the real fact.
They have no idea what is Bhagavān. This is one of the description of Mahā-Viṣṇu, that from His breathing, innumerable universes are coming out. When He is exhaling, the universes are coming out, and when He is inhaling, all, everything, is going within Him. This is Bhagavān. So anyway, this is partial exhibition of the energy of the Lord. And this is one-fourth energy. This material world is manifestation of His one-fourth energy. The three-fourth energies are in the spiritual world. So in that spiritual world Kṛṣṇa exhibits His spiritual energy. That is only spiritual energy. This material world is made of material energy, and we are marginal energy.
Here in this material world everyone is adhīra, agitated, agitated by lusty desires. But in the spiritual world they are dhīra. They are not agitated by lusty desires. This is spiritual world. So long we are agitated by the lusty desires, we must know that we are in the material world. That is the test. Just like Yamunācārya says,
- yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor
- nava-nava-(rasa)-dhāmany (udyataṁ) rantum āsīt
- tad-avadhi bata nārī-saṅgame smaryamāne
- bhavati mukha-vikāraḥ suṣṭhu niṣṭhīvanaṁ ca
"So long I have been engaged in the service of Kṛṣṇa and I am rendering more and more service and getting spiritual pleasure, since then, as soon as I think of sex life, I immediately spite upon it and I hate to think of it." This is the result. So people should know what is Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa pra... If one becomes attached to rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtiḥ, then the test is that his lusty desires will vanish. This is the test. Therefore Kavirāja Gosvāmī explains that "This is not ordinary thing. This is the transformation of the ahlādinī śakti." Samvit, sandhinī, ahlādinī.
I mean from the Māyāvādī point of view—and again, Kṛṣṇa being Paraṁ Brahman, how He can indulge in material happiness? This is the argument. Brahma-sukha, to understand brahma-sukha, to release brahma-sukha, if one is giving up everything material... There are three kinds of sukha: material sukha, brahma-sukha, and spiritual sukha. Brahma-sukha is on the margin. Sukha means happiness. Therefore, from logical point of view, we should conclude it that "Kṛṣṇa, being Para-brahman, how He can indulge in material happiness?" This is very important point. If for understanding little bit of brahma-sukha we are giving up all material enjoyment, how Kṛṣṇa can enjoy materially? He is Paraṁ Brahman. Therefore those sahajiyās, those who are taking that Kṛṣṇa is enjoying with ordinary girls, they are very, very, much misled. That is not the fact. Therefore it is said, hlādinī śakti. This is different. This is in the spiritual world the topmost mellow, hlādinī śakti.
He knows everything. Why He should feel like that? The feel, that He knows, but for our understanding, He is displaying, He's manifesting Himself, that "Rādhārāṇī's loving affairs is so great and unlimited, even though I am omniscient, I cannot understand it." Just like Lord Rāmacandra. Lord Rāmacandra, He is Supreme Personality of Godhead. Why He felt so much separation that to rescue Sītādevī He fought with Rāvaṇa? He's self-sufficient. Why He should feel separation from Sītā? This question may be raised. But actually there are different phases of loving affairs, and the separation is also one of them. The separation, feeling of separation, is one of them. We have got experience in our present life that intense love... Still there is feeling of separation. All these things are there in the spiritual world. Only perverted reflection of those spiritual feelings are manifested here in this material world. Therefore it is called perverted reflection. But everything is there, but they are not material. We should always understand that. Kṛṣṇa is perfect, Rādhārāṇī is perfect, and They are always constantly accompanied. Then why there is separation? And still, there is separation. So these are very high-grade understanding.
So we have discussed yesterday that in the spiritual world, Saṅkarṣaṇa is the supreme manager. And so far the material world is concerned, the same person is the Supreme, but His name is different, Kāraṇodakaśāyī. In the spiritual world, the name is Saṅkarṣaṇa, and the material world, the supreme superintendent is also the same person, but name is different—Kāraṇodakaśāyī. This Kāraṇodakaśāyī is māyā-bhartā. Bhartā means husband. Just like a husband begets children in the womb of the wife, similarly, all these universes are impregnated in the total material energy, māyā, by Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā.
So if we take it very seriously, then we become gradually advanced and eligible or fit candidate to go into the spiritual world—dīvyad-vṛndāraṇya-kalpa-drumādhaḥ. We can go there. That is wanted. Be serious. Don't be misled by the allurement of māyā. Remain strong. And then, in this life, you'll be able to become fit candidate to go back to home, back to Godhead. Dīvyad-vṛndāranya-kalpa-drumādhaḥ. You'll also be one of the associates of Kṛṣṇa, as you desire. Kṛṣṇa will give you the opportunity to serve Him as you desire. If you want to serve Him as a gopī, you'll get that position. If you want to serve Him as cowherds boyfriend, you'll get that opportunity. If you want to serve Kṛṣṇa following the footsteps of Mother Yaśodā, accepting Kṛṣṇa as your son, you'll get it. Accepting Kṛṣṇa as your son, Nanda Mahārāja following... We have to follow their principles, not that "I shall become Nanda Mahārāja" or "I shall become Yaśodā," "I shall..." No, that is Māyāvāda. You have to follow how they are loving Kṛṣṇa. You have to learn that. Then you'll get the chance of Kṛṣṇa's association.
So in this way there is the description of the spiritual world. You just have a glimpse of the spiritual world, how they are perpetually enjoying blissful life with full knowledge. That is described here. Dīvyad-vṛndāraṇya-kalpa-drumādhah-śrīmad ratnāgāra-siṁhāsana-sthau. There the siṁhāsana, the throne, that is also spiritual. That is not material. Everything spiritual. Simply in different capacity they are serving. There the water is also spiritual. So this spiritual realization, if we get the opportunity fortunate enough, then naturally we shall aspire to enter into the spiritual world. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura said, kṛṣṇera saṁsāra kara chāḍi' anācāra: "If you want to enter into this association of spiritual kingdom, then practice here the family of Kṛṣṇa." Just like here we are trying to be family members of Kṛṣṇa. Here Kṛṣṇa is sitting, Rādhā-Mādhava is sitting on the throne. He is the enjoyer, and we are trying to serve Him so that He may very nicely enjoy. This is called Kṛṣṇa family-center, Kṛṣṇa. Just like in ordinary family the head man is there, and he is the chief man, and all other—his wife, children, servants, and other friends, associates, even animals, cats, dogs, cows—everyone is serving the center point, master. Similarly, our Kṛṣṇa family means Kṛṣṇa is the master, and He is the supreme enjoyer. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). And if we understand this point, that Kṛṣṇa is the center, He is the enjoyer, and we are meant for serving Him for His enjoyment, that is Kṛṣṇa family.
This is civilization, varṇāśrama. One must observe (in) the material world. In the spiritual world, of course, there is no such thing as varṇāśrama. That is pure identity of the soul. So there is no... So long we are in this material world there must be a scientific division of progress of life. That is Vedic system. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. This is called varṇāśrama-dharma. I have repeatedly said that people call us Hindu in India. Actually, "Hindu" word is not visible in any Vedic literature. This is the name given by the Arabians to the, this part of the world, on the bank of the Sindhu. From the Sindhu the word "Hindu" has come. So actually, our culture is varṇāśrama-dharma. Therefore śāstra says, varṇāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān (CC Madhya 8.58). In the varṇāśrama-dharma, the ultimate goal is to worship Lord Viṣṇu, whose name is Yajña. Out of many names of Lord Viṣṇu, one name is Yajña, Yajña-puruṣa. So anything performed to satisfy the Supreme Lord, that is called yajña.
So when we speak of Bhagavān, don't think He is alone only. No. Pañca..., that Pañca-tattva. When Bhagavān incarnates, He comes with all the associates, His śakti-tattva, avatāra-tattva, prakāśa-tattva. Many paraphernalia He comes. So here Caitanya Mahāprabhu, avatīrṇa. Here it is said, pañca-tattva avatīrṇa caitanyera saṅge (CC Adi 7.4). Caitanyera-saṅge... Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Kṛṣṇa Himself. So He must have His associates. Associates. That is Bhagavān. Just like in the Brahma-saṁhitā it is explained, the beginning of understanding, how Bhagavān lives in the spiritual world
- cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa
- lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam
- lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambrahma-sevyamānaṁ
- govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
- (Bs. 5.29)
Govinda is not alone. Govinda is associated with the surabhīr abhipālayantam, many millions and thousands of surabhī cows. He tends so many cows. And lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambrahma-sevyamānam. We are flattering one Lakṣmī, goddess of fortune, but in the spiritual world, lakṣmī-sahasra-śata, many, many millions, Lakṣmīs, goddess of fortune. Sambrahma-sevyamānam, with great respect. Here we are flattering one Lakṣmī, goddess of fortune, "Mother, give me some money," but there the Lakṣmīs are flattering Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa's position. Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambrahma-sevyamānaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣam.
Pradyumna: Translation: "Spiritually there are no differences between these five tattvas, for on the transcendental platform everything is absolute. Yet there are also varieties in the spiritual world, and in order to taste these spiritual varieties one should distinguish between them." (CC Adi 7.5)
Prabhupāda: Pañca-tattva. The Absolute Truth is divided into five subject matter of relishing transcendental mellow. Advaya-jñāna, without any difference. Vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam: (SB 1.2.11) Asolute Truth is one, but still, there are varieties, transcendental varieties. Just like Brahman, impersonal Brahman; and Paramātmā, localized aspect of the Supreme Lord, Paramātmā; and Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead—they are one. There is no difference. Brahman is not different from Bhagavān, and Bhagavān is not different from Brahman. Bhagavān is addressed by Arjuna as Para-brahman. Brahman realization, gradually... First realization: impersonal Brahman; then localized Brahman; then personal Brahman. The personal Brahman is called Para-brahman, the Supreme Brahman. Impersonal Brahman is the beginning of realization of the Absolute Truth. That is not final. Therefore those who are satisfied with impersonal Brahman, their knowledge is not perfect. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ (SB 10.2.32). The realization of the Absolute Truth is the platform of viśuddha-sattva. So unless one comes to the platform of personal realization of the Lord, one is supposed to be aviśuddha-buddhi: intelligence is not yet perfectly pure.
Kṛṣṇa has got many, unlimited forms. Advaita-acyuta-anādi-ananta-rūpam. Svāṁśa-vibhinnāṁśa. Some of the forms are called svāṁśa. Svāṁśa means God, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Viṣṇu-tattva. Viṣṇu-tattva, They have expanded in so many ways. So all the Viṣṇu-tattvas, They are called svāṁśa, personal expansions. And others, they are called vibhinnāṁśa. The demigods, the inhabitants of the higher planetary systems within this material world, or the devotees in the spiritual world, we also, we are, although conditioned souls, we are vibhinnāṁśa. We are also expansion of Kṛṣṇa, but we are not equal to the Viṣṇu-tattva. We are fragment fires. The example is given, just like the big fire and the spark fire. So we living entities, we are spark fire. We are also fire, because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, vibhinnāṁśa... Aṁśa means part and parcel. So Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Spirit, and we are part and parcel. We are also spirit, but we are not supreme. That is the difference. Svayaṁ bhagavān kṛṣṇa ekale īśvara. So actually, īśvara means the controller. The supreme controller is Kṛṣṇa.
Kṛṣṇa is so kind that He comes here, exhibits Himself, how He is dealing in His spiritual abode. Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam (Bs. 5.29). Kṛṣṇa, in the spiritual world, Goloka Vṛndāvana, is engaged in tending the cows, surabhīr abhipālayantam (Bs. 5.29). So when He comes on this planet, in this universe... Kṛṣṇa rotates His touring. There are innumerable universes, and in every moment there is Kṛṣṇa-līlā is going on. That is called nitya-līlā. The example, I have given several times. Just like the sun is rotating within the orbit. Now it is, say, eight o'clock at night. But at this time, there is six o'clock, seven o'clock, nine o'clock, ten o'clock—everything is there. Similarly, every moment, Kṛṣṇa's līlā is going in some of the universes. There are innumerable universes. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi (Bs. 5.40). So in each universe, Kṛṣṇa-līlā is going on. And in rotation, after some lakhs of years, again Kṛṣṇa comes on this planet. This is... Therefore Kṛṣṇa's līlā is nitya-līlā. So just to attract us, that "You are fond of dancing. Why don't you come back to Me and dance with Me?" this is Kṛṣṇa's business. "Why you are rotting in this rotting dance? You want association. You want sporting. Why don't you come to Me and take part in My sporting with the cowherds boys?" This is invitation of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Material world means three modes.
Devotee: So is that like...? Well... Because the modes don't exist in the spiritual world. Is that right?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like if you go above the cloud, there is no cloud. That's all. But there is. In a certain portion of the sky, there is cloud. And that cloud is also not permanent. Sometimes sky is clear of all clouds, but sometimes cloud is there. The cloud is generating in the sky and it is vanquished in the sky. Similarly, this material world is sometimes being manifested and sometimes there is no manifestation, simply spiritual. Spiritual is always eternal. The sky, sunshine, is always eternal. Take this crude example. But the cloud is not eternal. It comes and goes, although cloud is a product of the same sunshine. Cloud is not independent. By interaction of sunshine, there is cloud, and that cloud is... There is no cloud. Similarly, this material world is just like cloud. It appears. It acts. When there is cloud, there is torrents of rain. Oh, there are so many productions on account of rain. Everything becomes green. So we give so much importance to the cloud, and it is important also, but it is temporary. As soon as the cloud is over, the greenness is gone. There is no rain. Nothing, nothing. And when the sky is clear, you'll see, "Oh, where is cloud? Where is cloud?" Similarly, this māyā means it appears like the cloud, and it disappears like the cloud, but the eternal brahma-jyotir remains.
So we, the sparks of the supreme fire, when we fall down in the dry grass, the spiritual quality or the fiery quality is there still, but it may also extinguish. Therefore, our transcendental position is śuddha-sattva. We have to always keep ourself in transcendental position by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, always being engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. Then we are brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). That is our Brahman situation. Simply realization of Brahman is not all. You have to be always engaged in Brahman activities. Then there is possibility of remaining in the Brahman platform. The Māyāvādī philosophers, as soon as they realize that ahaṁ brahmāsmi, they think that they are liberated. But no. That liberation is theoretical. That is not practical. Practical liberation is when you are situated in devotional service. Then there is no chance of falling down. If you simply think that "I have become Nārāyaṇa," or Nārāyaṇa position, that is falldown. There are innumerable examples. So we are taṭasthā-śakti. The idea is... Taṭasthā means marginal. We can fall down in the material world, and we can raise ourself in the spiritual world. This is our position. But we are energy, not the energetic.
Oh. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So, what is God, that is simplified, that nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām. He is the supreme eternal being amongst many other eternal beings. We are all eternal beings. We living entities, we are... Our position is eternity. As it is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit: "These living entities, they do not take birth or die at any time." Not "Nowadays they are taking more birth and population is increasing." This is all nonsense. Population is neither increasing nor decreasing. It may be... The living entities, they are transmigrating in this material world, not in the spiritual world. In the spiritual world they have got their eternal form. But in the material world, because the living entities have come to enjoy the material resources, therefore, according to the desire, the living entity is getting different forms of body, 8,400,000. But he is not dying. The body is changed. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13).
Yes, Kṛṣṇa is there. You can serve. Kṛṣṇa is present before you in His sound representation, Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa is absolute, and His words, what He has spoken in the Bhagavad-gītā, they are the same. Kṛṣṇa's words and Kṛṣṇa, they are not different. The material world means my words and me, we are different. But in the spiritual world the words, the name, the form, the pastimes of Kṛṣṇa, they are as good as Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, if you discuss on the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, like Bhagavad-gītā, then you are immediately in touch with Kṛṣṇa. Abhinnatvād nāma-nāminoḥ. There is no difference. So ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam. If you want to abide by the orders of Kṛṣṇa, anu-śīlanam... Anu-śīlanam means cultivation. The words are there. The words are not different from Kṛṣṇa. So as soon as you take the words as it is, you immediately associate with Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise you take the instruction of guru, representative of Kṛṣṇa. If you can please your guru, yasya prasādad bhagavat-prasādaḥ... **. If you can please His representative, then you please Him. So in this way, kṛṣṇānuśīlanam, that is our duty, ānukūlyena, ānukūla, not pratikūla. There are two ways of acting, ānukūla and pratikūla. If you act as I desire, that is ānukūla, and if you act what I don't desire, that is pratikūla. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness must be ānukūla, according to the desire of Kṛṣṇa, as it is confirmed by guru. That is ānukūla, favorable. And if you act whimsically, which Kṛṣṇa does not desire or the guru does not desire, then it is pratikūla. So ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167), that is bhakti.
Then He says, "There are unlimited expansions of Kṛṣṇa in the spiritual world, and..." Nāhi mūrti-bheda. Just like His expansions in the spiritual world... He is originally two-handed, but in the spiritual planets... There are innumerable spiritual planets, and He is situated in each of them in four hand. Now this four hand, each hand... There are four symbols: conchshell and wheel and club and a lotus flower. Now, these four symbols are differently manifested in. Just like four hands. Beginning from right, this is lotus flower, club, and then conchshell, then wheel. And some of them, here begins wheel, here begins club. In this way the four has about sixteen divisions, and they are represented... Not sixteen. Twenty-four. Twenty-four, I mean to say, change of the place of the symbols. And according to the change of symbols, you will find different names. In the cover of the book Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, you have seen. These symbols are there. And there are different names. Some of Them named Hṛṣīkeśa, some of Them named Pradyumna, Aniruddha, Vāsudeva, Saṅkarṣaṇa, Padmanābha... In this way there are different names according to the different change of the symbolic representation.
Now these prābhava-vilāsa forms, four-handed, They are also divided into different names according to the different months. Just like your calendar month is called January, February, March, April, May, June, and in India the calendar months are named as Vaiśākha, Jyaiṣṭha, Āṣāḍha, Śrāvaṇa, Bhādra, Āśvina, similarly, according to the Vaiṣṇava smṛti, there are the spiritual... These names, calendar months, they are according to the situation of the sun. Similarly, in the spiritual world the twelve months are named according to the different features of the Lord. And they are described here:
- cakrādi-dhāraṇa-bhede nāma-bheda saba
vāsudevera mūrti-keśava, nārāyaṇa, mādhava
Vāsudeva, according to the symbolic representation of the hands, They are differently named. Vāsudeva is divided into three: Keśava, Nārāyaṇa, Mādhava. Similarly, Saṅkarṣaṇa is divided into three: Govinda, Viṣṇu, Śrī Madhusūdana.
So that is their foolishness. Therefore, when there is too much foolishness, so there is need of avatāra, incarnation, to correct. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati (BG 4.7). Whenever there is, I mean to say, discrepancies in the maintenance of law and order of this material nature, there is need of avatāra, incarnation. Because it is God's kingdom, it is also secondary kingdom—real kingdom is in the spiritual world—so God comes in different avatāra. And when the material world is created, the first avatāra is puruṣa-avatāra. The Mahā-Viṣṇu, Garbhodakaśāyī, They create. And then līlāvatāra. Līlāvatāra, under some particular circumstances, to save some particular devotee, or to display some particular feature... Just like Lord Rāma, He incarnated. He is līlāvatāra. Then guṇāvatāra. For maintenance of this material world there are different kinds of modes of nature, and to control those modes of nature there are avatāras, Brahmā, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara. Līlāvatāra. Then manvantarāvatāra. The changes of millenniums, that manvantarāvatāra. And then yugāvatāras, yugāvatāra, in each and every yuga. Just like this Kali-yuga. This is called Kali-yuga. In the Kali-yuga the incarnation is Lord Caitanya.
And the potential activity, that is being done by the expansion of Saṅkarṣaṇa, either in this material world or in the spiritual world. So parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyat (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport)e. In this way the Lord is working in so many ways, and because we have no knowledge, we think that "There is no brain behind it. There is no knowledge behind it. Everything is coming out automatically, and we are the master of everything." That is called illusion. So by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you will be free from this illusion, and you will know how God is working by His different potential power.
Cic-chakti-dvārāya. The spiritual potency is manifested in the spiritual world, Goloka Vṛndāvana and spiritual planets.
- yadyapi asṛjya nitya cic-chakti-vilāsa
- tathāpi saṅkarṣaṇa-icchāya tāhāra prakāśa
Actually, there is no creation in the spiritual world. The creation means it begins at a certain time and ends at a certain time, but in the spiritual world there is no such beginning. But because we find the creation of this material world by the kriyā-śakti potency of Lord, therefore it is understood that the spiritual world is also manifested by the same potency with the help of His spiritual energy.
"So all Viṣṇu expansions, they are in the spiritual world, and they all of them reside there. But when they come into this material world, it is called incarnation." Actually, avatāra... This Sanskrit name is avatāra. Avatāra means who comes down from the spiritual world. Avatāri. Avatāri means descends. Descends. They are not born of this material energy. They descend from the spiritual world.
So from this version of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that the living entities as seeds they are coming from the spiritual world... They are not product of the matter. Therefore it is not possible to produce living entity with material chemicals and material elements. It is not possible. As some of the modern scientists, they claim that "We shall now give life," or they advertise in that way, so from this verse we can understand that it is not possible, because these living entities, they are just like seeds, and they are coming from the spiritual world, from the body of the Supreme. Those spiritual living entities are desirous of enjoying sense gratification, they are allowed to this material world, and others, they are in the spiritual world.
So Kṛṣṇa-līlā is going on in the spiritual world, but by Kṛṣṇa's desire that spiritual world also comes down in this material world. Just like a big man, he lives in his palace, but if he likes he can go anywhere, and he has the same facility of his palace by arrangement. Similarly, when Kṛṣṇa comes within this material world, He has all the paraphernalia of his Goloka Vṛndāvana līlā. As such this Vṛndāvana is as good as the original Vṛndāvana. Ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa, tanaya tad-dhāmaṁ vṛndāvanam. This Vṛndāvana is not ordinary place; it is the same Goloka Vṛndāvana. By Kṛṣṇa's omnipotency the same Vṛndāvana is duplicated. It is possible. That is called nitya-līlā.
Now these cowherds boys, they have got a cane in the hand, vetra. And each of them has got a flute also. Vetra veṇu dala. And a lotus flower, and a śṛṅgara, a horn. Śṛṅgara vastra, and very nicely dressed. And full of ornaments. Just like Kṛṣṇa is dressed, similarly, His friends, cowherd boys, they are also dressed. In the spiritual world, when you go, you'll not be able to understand who is Kṛṣṇa and who is not Kṛṣṇa. Everyone is like Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, in the Vaikuṇṭha planets everyone is like Viṣṇu. That is called sayujya-mukti. The living entities, when they enter into the spiritual planets, they become as good as Kṛṣṇa and Viṣṇu—there is no difference—because it is absolute world. Here the difference is there. The impersonalists, they cannot understand that even in individuality there is no difference. As soon as they think of individuality, oh, they think that there is a difference. Then what is liberation? Yes. And actually there is no difference. The difference is only that Kṛṣṇa's personality and others' personalities, they are conscious that "Kṛṣṇa is our object of love." That's it. The center is Kṛṣṇa. In this way the individual boys and girls and Kṛṣṇa, everyone is enjoying spiritual bliss.
Now, these, all these cowherd boys and everything, cows and everything, they are all expansion of Kṛṣṇa's energy. It is spiritual. Just like we are expansion of Kṛṣṇa's marginal energy and the matter is also expansion of Kṛṣṇa's inferior material energy, similarly, in the spiritual world all those things—Kṛṣṇa, the cowherd boys, the cows, and everything—they are also expansion of His spiritual energy.
- eka kṛṣṇa-deha haite sabāra prakāśe
- kṣaṇeke sabāi sei śarīre praveśe
ihā dekhi' brahmā hailā mohita, vismita
- stuti kari' ei pāche karilā niścita
Brahmā, he was bewildered. When Kṛṣṇa came on this planet, Brahmā... Muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ. Brahmā was astonished and Indra was astonished: "How is that my Lord Kṛṣṇa has come at Vṛndāvana as a cowherd boy?" So they came to Vṛndāvana to test. So all... So Brahmā, by his... He has got so much power. He had kidnapped all the cows and the boys of Kṛṣṇa. And when he came back he saw Kṛṣṇa is playing with the same cows and boys again. Then he could understand that "This boy is Kṛṣṇa." Then he offered his prayer and begged pardon from Him that "I misunderstood." In this way there are many narrations in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Here Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu is referring to that incident.
So in the spiritual world, that Vṛndāvana planet is the highest planet, and below that planet there are innumerable Vaikuṇṭha planets which are called Viṣṇuloka.
- tāra tale paravyoma-'viṣṇuloka'-nāma
- nārāyaṇa-ādi ananta svarūpera dhāma
And the presiding Deity, predominating Deity in those planets is called Nārāyaṇa. Nārāyaṇa is also expansion of Kṛṣṇa. Generally, Nārāyaṇa is accepted as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but from authentic scripture we understand that Nārāyaṇa is expansion of Kṛṣṇa.
So in this Brahma-saṁhitā this verse appears. Goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya (Bs. 5.43). The supreme planet in the spiritual sky is called Goloka Vṛndāvana, and all other planets, either in the spiritual world or in the material world... All the universes, they are all in just like strata. So goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya (Bs. 5.43). Underneath that goloka-nāmni there are different planetary spheres or systems. Devī-maheśa-hari-dhāmasu teṣu teṣu. Devī-dhāma. This is called Devī-dhāma. This material world called Devī-dhāma. Above this there is Maheśa-dhāma, Śivaloka. Devī-maheśa-hari-dhāma. Hari-dhāma means these Vaikuṇṭhas. Devī-maheśa-hari-dhāmasu teṣu teṣu. In all those systems of different kinds of planets, teṣu teṣu, te te prabhāva-nicayā vihitas ca yena (Bs. 5.43). Every planet, every spiritual atmosphere or material atmosphere, they have got some particular specially, every, every planet. So that is designed by Kṛṣṇa.
Now, there is material world, this material world is within the mahat-tattva compass. You have seen the picture, mahat-tattva compass. And that mahat-tattva is full with water. This is called Causal Ocean. And beyond that Causal Ocean, there is spiritual world. It is stated, tasyāḥ pāre paravyoma. Paravyoma means spiritual sky. And tripād-bhūtam. Tripād-bhūtaṁ sanātanam. Tripād-bhūtam means this material manifestation is only one-fourth energy of the Supreme Lord. This inferior energy is only one-fourth manifestation of the energy. The three-fourths manifestation of energy (is) in the spiritual world, and that is sanātanam. That is not subjected to creation and annihilation as this material world is subjected to that creation and annihilation. That is confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā. All Vedic literatures, they say the same thing. So we have to learn from authorized sources, and we can be informed perfectly about parāvara, para and avara. Avara means this inferior nature, and para means superior nature. Parāvaras te.
Now, after this spiritual world, this material world, that is full of innumerable universes. 'Devī-dhāma' nāma tāra, jīva yāra vāsī. Now, this material world is called Devī-dhāma. And jīva, jīva means conditioned soul. In this Devī-dhāma, the conditioned soul... There are two kinds of souls: conditioned and liberated, nitya-baddha, nitya-mukta. Just like we are, similarly, there are living entities in the spiritual sky also, but they are liberated. They never become conditioned. We are conditioned. We do not know from when, but we are conditioned. So jīva yāra vāsī. In this material world, we conditioned, we are residents. But in the spiritual world the residents are all liberated souls. Jagal-lakṣmī rakhi' rahe yāhāṅ māyā dāsī.
Ei tina dhāmera haya kṛṣṇa adhīśvara. Ei tina dhāma. Tina dhāma, what is that three systems? This Devī-dhāma, the Maheśa-dhāma and Hari-dhāma. Hari-dhāma, the spiritual world, and Maheśa-dhāma, in between... This Maheśa-dhāma is the destination of nirvāṇa. The nirvāṇa philosophy, the Buddha philosophy, that is between this Devī-dhāma and Hari-dhāma, Maheśa-dhāma, in between. They are liberated also, but not in the spiritual world, in the marginal place, which is called nirvāṇa. Their material existence is finished, but their spiritual development is not there. So finishing material existence is not all. Just like one man is suffering from fever, and the fever subsides. That is not health. Fever subsides. That's all right. Fever has subsided. But healthy life is when he will work as a healthy man. Simply saying, "No, no more fever," no more fever, lying down on the bed, is the nirvāṇa stage. No more fever. There is no fever, but he is not competent to get up from the bed and work. So that is called nirvāṇa. The fever is finished. That is called nirvāṇa. So when material existence is finished, that is nirvāṇa. But you have to go further. You have to develop further. Then your real, constitutional life as spirit soul will be manifested. So that is bhakti-mārga. That activity is healthy life after nirvāṇa. So those who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they have already passed this material existence and nirvāṇa stage. They are in healthy activities, provided he is actually engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So ei tina dhāmera haya kṛṣṇa adhīśvara.
Have you seen any tree? Yes. We have seen. Where? In the reservoir of water or in a reflection you see the real tree is upwards, but the reflection is downwards. Therefore this material world is reflection. It is not real. Just day before yesterday I was pointing out the reflection of the sun from this side. So that reflection is playing. It is giving light, everything. But it is reflection, imitation. It has no value. Similarly, all this material world, it appears very nice, as if everything is all right, but nothing is all right. It is simply a temporary illusion. Therefore it is called māyikā. It is not the real thing. The real thing is there in the spiritual world. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says if you return to that real, I mean to say, abode, then you will have..., you haven't got to come back again to take birth in this material body. Yad dhāma gatva na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama. Na tad bhāsayate sūryo na candro na pāvakaḥ (BG 15.6). This is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that "There is no need of sun. There is no need of moon. There is no need of electricity." These things are there.
Now Lord Caitanya says that the whole energy of Kṛṣṇa is divided into two. The inferior energy is manifested. That is one-fourth energy. And the superior energy manifested in the spiritual world, that is three-fourths. Now, just try to understand one-fourth first; then you will understand three-fourths. Lord Caitanya says that tripāda-vibhūti kṛṣṇera-vākya-agocara: "It is very difficult to describe the three-fourth energy. Let us try to understand one-fourth energy first of all." Eka-pāda vibhūtira śunaha vistāra. And what is that one-fourth energy?
Ātma-māyayā, internal potency. He is situated in the spiritual world by internal potency. And this is, this material world, His external potency. Therefore, although external potency is also Kṛṣṇa's potency—it is not different from Kṛṣṇa—but Kṛṣṇa is not here in the external potency. Kṛṣṇa is in the internal potency, although this potency is not different. Therefore it is inferior. It is inferior energy, it is called. And this, this is explained very nicely in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagat avyakta-mūrtinā: (BG 9.4) "By Me the whole spiritual and material world is manifested." Tatam idam. How it is manifested? Just like the sun and sunshine. Sunshine is manifested all over the universe, and sun is the central point. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the central point, and His shining brahma-jyotir is diffused all over. And the part of that brahma-jyotir, when it is, I mean to say, covered by the cloud of mahat-tattva, that is called material existence. So we are in this darkness. So Kṛṣṇa says, Lord Cai... So his place is in the internal potency. 'Svarūpa-śakti' rūpe tāṅra haya avasthāna. He is situated there in His internal potency.
So Kṛṣṇa is both in the spiritual world and the material world. Because we represent Kṛṣṇa, we are in this brahmāṇḍa conditioned. But there are many living entities who are eternally liberated. They never come to this. How it is, that? Just like the ocean and the rivers. In river, in the river, you will find fishes, and in the ocean you will find fishes. But the... Sometimes it may be that the fishes of the river may go to the ocean, but the fishes of the ocean never comes to the river. Never comes to the river. There is no place for them. This is a crude example. Similarly... And as the ocean is far, far greater than the river-thousands of rivers cannot be compared with the, I mean to say, measurement of the ocean—similarly, thousands and millions of this material world cannot be compared with the spiritual world. The spiritual world is so great that millions of material world taken together, it can be dropped into the spiritual world. It is such great. Therefore material world is called one-fourth manifestation of Kṛṣṇa's energy. And the spiritual world is called three-fourth manifestation of Kṛṣṇa's energy.
So those who are eternally liberated, they love Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they are perfect in the spiritual world. 'Nitya-mukta'-nitya kṛṣṇa-caraṇe unmukha, 'kṛṣṇa-pāriṣada' nāma. They are all associates. The Supreme Lord is person, and His innumerable lovers, living entities, they are also individual persons. Love means there is person, individual. Without individual person, there is no question of love. When I, when the word "love" is used, there must be two lovers. Then the word is applicable, love. If there is no person, love is not with the air. There must be person. So the Supreme Lord is person, and the lovers, the living entities, they are also persons. They forget who is God, who is not God, but the central focus is in Kṛṣṇa. Everyone loves Kṛṣṇa. Without seeing Kṛṣṇa they are mad. This is the position in the spiritual world. Simply love Kṛṣṇa, that's all. Bhuñje sevā-sukha. And by loving, as we have got a little perverted experience of love affairs, so just imagine when that love is pure and true, how much pleasure there is. So that thing is there in the spiritual world, pure love. And object is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they are so much in bliss... That is bliss. That is bliss, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1), eternal love with knowledge that "Here is Kṛṣṇa," and ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). That is perfect stage, lovable object eternal, lover eternal, with knowledge, with eternal life. That is there. In the spiritual world this is going on. They're all in bliss.
Therefore they are so much in bliss... That is bliss. That is bliss, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1), eternal love with knowledge that "Here is Kṛṣṇa," and ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). That is perfect stage, lovable object eternal, lover eternal, with knowledge, with eternal life. That is there. In the spiritual world this is going on. They're all in bliss.
Now, so far we are concerned, the conditioned soul, 'nitya-bandha'-kṛṣṇa haite nitya-bahirmukha: our business is to hate Kṛṣṇa, that's all. "What is God? Huh! God. The foolish people are assembled speaking of God." Nitya. They are... Naturally, they are haters of God in this conditioned life. Just the opposite. In the spiritual world, they are by nature... By nature, we are lover of God, but here, being illusioned, we think God as our enemy and we don't like God. We like this māyā.
There is no beyond. Even if you are in the consciousness of impersonal Brahman, there is far advanced stage. What is that? Or Paramātmā, the Supersoul understanding. And when you are in the Supersoul understanding you have to go further, because the Supersoul is a reflection, reflection. Of course, there is no difference between the reflection and the substance in the spiritual world. Still, it is reflection. Just like the sun. Sun is on your head, but his reflection can be perceived by everyone standing within this, I mean to say, under the sun. Suppose you are here. The sun is above your head, and you ask other persons who are five thousand miles or five hundred miles away from you, "Where is sun?" he will say that "Sun is on my head." So everyone will say, "Sun is on my head." Similarly, although sun is one, he is perceived that he is in everyone's heart, er, everyone's head. Similarly, the Lord, although He is one, He is situated in Vaikuṇṭha, but He is Brahman. He is the greatest. He is greater than the, far million, million times or unlimited timely greater than sun. Then He is reflected in everyone's heart. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā: īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). Īśvara, that Supreme Personality of Godhead, is situated in the heart of every living being.
Sri Isopanisad Lectures
Arjuna is giving up claim on the kingdom." But what Kṛṣṇa replied? Kṛṣṇa said, "Wherefrom you got this foolish idea?" Kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam, anārya-juṣṭam: "This is for non-Aryans, not for Aryans." So this so-called goodness, so-called gentlemanliness, has no value in the spiritual world. Spiritual world—complete love of God, without any attachment for this... So Arjuna, this goodness, means attachment for his family. That's all. He was becoming a good man. Why? Because there is attachment for his family, for his grandfather, for his brother, nephews. So, so long there is attachment for this material world, either in the form of goodness or passion or ignorance, they're all the same. In the transcendental platform... Therefore Caitanya-caritāmṛta says that in this material world, the divisions that "This is good, and this is bad," they are simply mental concoction. The same example: the stool dried up is good, and the wet is not good. Stool is stool. That's all.
Sri Brahma-samhita Lectures
Kṛṣṇa, He has got multiforms. We are also Kṛṣṇa's forms, vibhinnāṁśa. There are two categories of forms, Kṛṣṇa's: viṣṇu-tattva and jīva-tattva. Viṣṇu-tattva, a Kṛṣṇa person, and jīva-tattva, separated personalities. So the jīvas, they are also Kṛṣṇa's forms, vibhinnāṁśa. They are called vibhinnāṁśa. Just imagine the living entities, innumerable forms there are. That is conditioned living entities. Whatever we see within this material world, that is only a fragment part of all the living entities. The major portion of the living entities, they are in the spiritual world. They are called nitya-mukta, ever-liberated. And we, in this material world, we are nitya-baddha, ever-conditioned. Besides that, Kṛṣṇa has got Viṣṇu tattva form, personal. Viṣṇu tattva form means that one form is as powerful as the other form. In the vibhinnāṁśa form, we are not as powerful as Kṛṣṇa. But there are forms of Kṛṣṇa who are as powerful as Kṛṣṇa. Dīpārcir eva hi daśāntaram abhyupetya (Bs. 5.46).
Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis. His gopīs, His consorts, His father, His mother, His friends, His trees, His flowers, His calves and cows—everything is spiritual, expansion from Him. Everything... The... We are also expansion from Him. We are marginal potency. And this is spiritual potency. So everything is expansion. Therefore the Vedic literatures say, sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma: "Everything is Brahman." We are now combination of two energies, marginal energy and the external energy. But in the spiritual world, everything is only spiritual energy. So we are constitutionally spiritual energy. Somehow or other we have been entangled with this material energy. So if we try in this human form of life, we can get out of this material energy and again go back to the spiritual energy. That is the opportunity. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ (Bs. 5.37).
Another śloka is to explain: aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛtti-manti (Bs. 5.32). The spiritual body is equally qualified for doing everything. Just like with our hand, we can touch only. We cannot do... Or we can pick up something. But by simply having hand, or with the hand, we cannot eat. For eating we shall have to use this mouth, we have to use the stomach. But in the spiritual world, Kṛṣṇa, about Him is described: aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛtti-manti (Bs. 5.32). Each and every limb of Kṛṣṇa has got the potency of other limbs. He can eat by His eyes. He can hear from His eyes. And anything, all the parts of the limbs, because they are spiritual, you can use it for any purpose. This is not understandable in this material condition of life, but it is possible. These things are there.
Dishonest, criminal. Food is outside jail, inside jail. But what is the difference outside and inside? Inside jail, the men are criminals. Outside jail, they are not criminals; they are lawful. Similarly there is spiritual world and material world, and everywhere God is providing food, either in the spiritual world or material world, for everyone. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. The Vedas says that one person, Supreme Person, is supplying food to this many living entities, bahūnām. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. So for fulfillment of your material desires, you need not go to God. That is, that arrangement is already there.
The Lord, every (indistinct) is not material. That is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1). Kṛṣṇa is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha. His form is eternity, blissful, and full of knowledge. So all His paraphernalia in the Goloka Vṛndāvana, that is His expansion of that quality—eternity, blissfulness and knowledge. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhiḥ. His gopīs, His consorts, His father, His mother, His friends, His trees, His flowers, His calves and cows—everything is spiritual expansion from Him. Everything... We are also expansion from Him. We are marginal potency, and this is spiritual potency. So everything is expansion. Therefore the Vedic literature says, sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma: "Everything is Brahman." We are not (?) combination of two energies: marginal energy and the external energy. But in the spiritual world everything is only spiritual energy. So we are constitutionally spiritual energy. Somehow or other, we have been entangled with this material energy. So if we try in this human form of life, we can get out of this material energy and again go back to the spiritual energy. That is the opportunity. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ (Bs. 5.37).
Another śloka I wish to explain: aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛtti-manti (Bs. 5.32). The spiritual body is equally qualified for doing everything. Just like our hand, we can touch only. We cannot do... Or we can pick up something. But simply having hand... Or with the hand we cannot eat. For eating, we shall have to use this mouth, we have to use the stomach. But in the spiritual world, Kṛṣṇa, about Him it is described, aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛtti-manti: (Bs. 5.32) "Each and every limb of Kṛṣṇa has got the potency of other limbs." He can eat by His eyes; He can hear from His eyes. Anything. All the parts of the limbs, because they are spiritual, you can use it for any purpose. This is not understandable in this material condition of life, but it is possible. When it is spiritually realized, it is possible. These things are there.
Festival Lectures
So this material energy is created by Kṛṣṇa because there are some living entities who are not to satisfy Kṛṣṇa but satisfy their senses. For them, it is there. "All right. Your field of activities, here." So it is not Kṛṣṇa's desire. It is fulfill your desire. Because in the spiritual world, Kṛṣṇa is supreme, but if you cannot tolerate Kṛṣṇa sup... Even here there are so many: "Why there should be God? I am God. I am God." Are you God? But you have got this mentality, that "I am God." You cannot qualify yourself. You do not know what is God, what is the meaning of God. You are claiming God. Because you do not want to serve God, that is your mentality. So for these last, lowest class of men, there is external energy. (break) ...class of men, they will not abide by the laws of the state.
So this human form of life is meant for spiritual realization. Please try to understand that this human form of life is a chance to get out of this material entanglement. In other than human life—animal life, trees life, beast life, birds life, aquatic life—there are so many, 8,400,000 species of life. Out of that, this human form of life is a boon wherein you can get out of this material entanglement and, being freed from this material entanglement, you can enter into the spiritual world, the kingdom of God. Yad gatvā na nivartante (BG 15.6). And if you go there, then you haven't got to come back in this material world, which is called duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). It is the place of miseries as well as temporary. Even if we accept this place, miserable place, you will not be allowed to live here for long. You will have to quit this stage. Therefore it is called aśāśvatam. This is our position. In the Bhagavad-gītā, the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself says that this is duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam. So the human form of life should endeavor how to get out of it.
So you can understand what is the potency of this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. We do not pay anything, you ladies and gentlemen, to follow us. But we simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. So it is very potential. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, a great ācārya of Vaiṣṇava sampradāya, he has sung, golokera prema-dhana, hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana. This Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, or chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa, it is not anything material. Therefore you will never feel tired chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. You see practically. You go on chanting twenty-four hours; you will never feel tired. Therefore it is said, golokera prema-dhana. This chanting vibration is coming from the spiritual world. Just like you receive material sound vibration in the radios or television from distant place, there is another machine which can receive the vibration in the spiritual world. So that vibration is Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra.
So, these are the perfection of life, not that teeny, floating sputnik. (laughter) They do not know what is perfection of life. You can go anywhere. A living entity's name is sarva-gaḥ. Sarva-gaḥ means "one who can go anywhere he likes." Just Nārada Muni. Nārada Muni can travel anywhere he likes, either in the spiritual world or in the material world. So you can also do that. There is possibility. There was a Durvāsā Muni, great yogi. Within one year he traveled all over the universe and went to Viṣṇuloka and again came back. That is recorded in the history. So these are the perfections of life. And how these perfection can be attained? By understanding Kṛṣṇa. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam eva vijñātaṁ bhavanti. The Upaniṣad says, if you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, then all these things can be understood very easily. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is such a nice thing.
Just like if you want to see a big man you should go through his secretary, through his orderly, doorkeeper; similarly, our process is ācāryopāsanam, go through the ācārya. That is the injunction of the Vedas. Tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ. If you want to enter into the spiritual world, you cannot get through simply by arguments. Because there is no limit of argument. I place my argument in one way. Another man, who is better arguer, he places his argument in a different way. So if you simply go on arguing, it is not possible. Tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ. It will never help you. Argument. Śrutayo vibhinnāḥ. If you think that "I shall read scriptures and I shall understand God," no, that is also not possible. Śrutayo vibhinnāḥ. Scriptures are also different. Because scriptures are made according to time, circumstances, people. Just like Bible. Bible Lord Jesus Christ preached in the desert, Jerusalem.
So our taking the shape of crocodile or boar or something animal that is karma. But that is a horse, real horse is karma but the Gladstone's becoming horse, that is not karma, that is enjoyment. We should understand like that, that when keśava dhṛta-kūrma-śarīra and varāha-śarīra, He's not forced by karma. Na māṁ karmāṇi limpanti (BG 4.14). Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, na me karma-phale spṛhā. He is self-sufficient. So, everything His enjoyment. We are also seeking enjoyment because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. So ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Kṛṣṇa or His part and parcel, the same quality. Kṛṣṇa is seeking enjoyment, and we are also seeking enjoyment, but we can enjoy together in the spiritual world without any hamper, without any impediment.
So Kṛṣṇa comes therefore, personally appears and exhibits His enjoying love in Vṛndāvana. He brings His friends, His girl-friends, boy-friends, everything, His father, His mother, and shows that "The enjoyment which you are seeking, that is there in the spiritual world with Me. See how I am enjoying." Just so that we may have our brain cleared that if we enjoy with Kṛṣṇa, we can enjoy the dance, the paternal love, the conjugal love, the friendly playing with boys, with animals, who is in the garden, in the forest, in the water-same thing is there. Everything is there, all the sporting, but spiritual. So this is Kṛṣṇa's līlā. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis (Bs. 5.37). So we are seeking pleasure within this material world. That is imitation. That is not real enjoyment. But the basic principle of enjoyment is there. Here there is imitation enjoyment, love between young boy young girl. So wherefrom it comes? It is there in Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise how it can come? It is not possible. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). This loving exchange between young boy, young girl is there. Kṛṣṇa is also enjoying there.
We, just like we keep so many animals, Kṛṣṇa is also enjoying with the calves. Sometimes with other animal also. Same thing is there. It is simply imitation here. Otherwise, everything is there in the spiritual world. We are mistaking, here, karma-phala-vadya (?). But here is no inebrieties, in the spiritual world. Here it is full of inebrieties. You'll see that Kṛṣṇa is enjoying with the gopīs but there is no inebriety. There is no pregnancy, there is no abortion. That is the beauty. And the material world the love turns into lusty desires and it entails so many difficulties. Yan-maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tucchaṁ kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham (SB 7.9.45). Here sex life means entailed with so many sufferings. But there is no sex life in the spiritual world but the pleasure is there. That is the difference between material and spiritual. Therefore there is restriction. Just like sex life is there, but a tuberculosis patient, if he enjoys sex life, he'll die very soon. Without sex life he could live for some years. Everyone will die.
And if you simply stick to the nirakāra Brahman, what we shall hear? Therefore they fall down, these Māyāvādīs who simply take seriously the impersonal feature of Kṛṣṇa, because there is no līlā. "Brahman brahman ahaṁ brahman brahman," then how long it will go on? It will be hackneyed. But when we take to Kṛṣṇa's personal activities, then are newer, newer, newer, and multi and many... Then we get the opportunity of hearing Kṛṣṇa. Then you stick. Otherwise, if I simply become understood about the Brahman feature, it will be hackneyed, we want seek ānanda, pleasure. So in the impersonal feature there is no pleasure. Just like in the sky, even if you take a very nice airplane, and simply fly in the sky, you'll be very much displeased. That is our practical experience. If you go in the sea and for months together remain in the sea, you'll be very much sick. We want pleasure. We want pleasure, varieties. That is Kṛṣṇa's desire. He also discover..., varieties of pleasure, and if we join with Him, we also enjoy the varieties of pleasure eternally in the spiritual world. That is success of life.
Goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni. There is a planet in the spiritual world. The material world, you can see the material sky, limit of the sky, the horizon, but you are not able to reach even the moon planet, the nearest planet. But within this universe, within this horizon, there are innumerable planets. Aśeṣa. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi vibhūti-bhinnam (Bs. 5.40). By the shining effulgence from the body of Kṛṣṇa... That is called brahma-jyotir. Within that brahma-jyotir or effulgence there are innumerable universes. Ananta-koṭi. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi. Koṭi means innumerable. One million, ten millions equal to one lakh.
So that is summarized: goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya (Bs. 5.43). The topmost planet is called Goloka or Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇaloka. Go means cows. Kṛṣṇa is very much fond of cows. Therefore, that planet is called also Goloka, the planet full of cows. We have recited Brahma-saṁhitā today, cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-lakṣā-vṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam (Bs. 5.29). Kṛṣṇa is engaged in tending cows. He's very much fond of cows. Surabhi, they are not ordinary cows. In the spiritual world, everything is spiritual. So there is a planet, goloka-nāmni. So, that is the highest planet. Goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni. That is the personal abode. Goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya: (Bs. 5.43) under that planet, there are other planetary systems. They are called Devīdhāma, Maheśadhāma, Haridhāma.
The same energy, we are seeking after the same energy. Just like water can mix with water. Oil cannot mix with water. If you put a drop of oil with water, the oil will remain separate. But if you put a drop of water with water, immediately mixes. Similarly we are spirit soul. As soon as we are in the spiritual world, in spiritual activities, then we are one. There is no discordance. There is no opposing elements. But so long we exist in the material world, everything opposing. Everything opposing. Therefore it is struggle. Struggle for existence. Suppose if you are thrown into the sea, however expert swimmer you may be, it is struggle. It is struggle for existence. But if you are on the land, there is no such struggle. You live natural life. Similarly, mahātmā, those who have become broader by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, by surrendering unto Kṛṣṇa after many, many births... Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). Ante means after. Janma means birth. And fully understanding that everything is Kṛṣṇa, everything is display of Kṛṣṇa's energy.
Arrival Addresses and Talks
This young boy and young girl trying to unite for happiness is the natural inclination of the living entity. It is there in the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In the Vedānta-sūtra it is said, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Everything that we see in this material world is there in the spiritual world. Janmādy asya yataḥ. Wherefrom everything is coming? The original source, the original source of this love, is there in the Absolute. Rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtiḥ. It is the manifestation of the pleasure potency of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So the thing as it is originally is perfect, but here, the same thing is only perverted reflection. Here, the boys and the girls meeting, because it is simply a reflection... Just like a reflection of the tree on the river, it is just topsy-turvied, similarly, that reflection, reality, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa love, is topsy-turvied here.
Here, you are trying to enjoy the company of young girls, but Kṛṣṇa is also doing that in the spiritual world. Sahasra-śata-sambhrama, lakṣmī. Each girl there is a goddess of fortune. Not only one, but many hundreds and thousands. They're with great respect and reverence trying to serve Kṛṣṇa. Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānam. So you can also enter in the company of Kṛṣṇa, as Kṛṣṇa's friend, as Kṛṣṇa's servant, as Kṛṣṇa's consort, as Kṛṣṇa's father, anything. Everything... Here also, there are five relationship: relationship between master and servant, relationship between friend and friend, relationship between father and son, and relationship between boyfriend and girlfriend. All these relationships are emanating from Kṛṣṇa. Akhila-rasāmṛta-sindhu: the ocean of all pleasure. And Kṛṣṇa comes Himself to give you this message. Kṛṣṇa appeared five thousand years ago on this planet, and at Vṛndāvana He exhibited His real pastimes in the spiritual world, so just to give practical demonstration and to invite you there. Kṛṣṇa (is) canvassing: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66).
So I am very glad to see that you are maintaining the temple standard as good as I saw when I left. That is my satisfaction. And keep this, I mean to say, situation, atmosphere, always, and follow the regulative principles, chant sixteen rounds. You'll remain always happy, because although we are in Los Angeles, we have nothing to do with the material atmosphere of Los Angeles. Therefore a devotee who lives with Kṛṣṇa or in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he does not live in the material world. He always live in the spiritual world. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā. Māṁ cāvyabhicāriṇi-bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate: "Anyone who is engaged in bhakti-yoga with Kṛṣṇa," sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26), "such person is always above these material modes of nature." Our difficulty or miserable condition of life is due to being under the material laws of nature.
And especially when one is endowed with other blessings, it is just like good scent in gold. Gold is appreciated by everyone. It is valuable, but there is no good flavor. Similarly, janma aiśvarya, to... You American boys and girls, you are born of a very big nation. That is very good. You are all educated, you are beautiful, and janma aiś..., śruta śrī, four things. These things are just like gold. But if you add Kṛṣṇa consciousness along with these qualification, then gold with flavor. Gold is valuable, and if there is flavor, it is more valuable. Of course, in the material world there is no gold which has got good scent. But in the spiritual world that is possible. So with your intelligence, with your opulence, add Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then nationally, individually, collectively you will be glorified. I am very glad that you have opened this center. It is nice place. And execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is very simple, not difficult, if we want to execute. But I am glad that you are doing that. Our Satsvarūpa Mahārāja is guiding you, and I thank you very much for your kind reception. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)
A dog cannot understand. If I say to the dog that "You are not this body, you are spirit soul, you are eternal," he has no power to understand. And a human being can understand. He has got the capacity. So we are trying to educate all people, all nations of the world to understand this one verse, that's all. Na jāyate vā mriyate vā kadācit. If he simply understands this one verse, he immediately becomes liberated. And actually, human life is meant for understanding this philosophy or this truth. Then his life is successful. And as soon as we understand that we are eternal, we are not mortal, then naturally our inquiry will be, "Where we can live eternally?" That will be the inquiry. In the material world as you are forced to take birth and death, so similarly in the spiritual world, the first advantage is there is no birth and death, just the opposite. So our process is to train people how to go back to home, back to Godhead. That is the only education required in this human life.
So the living entities, they are called taṭasthā-śakta. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). God has many potencies. They have been divided into three primarily: external, internal, and marginal; bahiraṅgā-śakti, antaraṅga-śakti, and taṭasthā-śakti. So we jīvas, living entities, we are also another energy of Kṛṣṇa, in between the material and spiritual. So if we like we can remain in the spiritual world; if we like, we can remain in the material world. If we remain in the material world, then, temporary, we enjoy happiness or distress. There is no happiness. Sometimes we take distress as happiness. Actually there is no happiness, because however happy you may be, you have to change this body. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). So this happiness... Suppose this life I am a king. Maybe for few years, but I have to change this body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). So there is no happiness. Suppose you arrange very nicely to live here very happily in this world, but you'll not be allowed to live. You'll not be allowed. Duḥkhalayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). So long we live, there is happiness or distress. There is no happiness. To get happiness we have to go through distress. Anyway, mixed up happiness or distress, even if you make nice arrangement, but all of a sudden you'll be asked to get out. Duḥkhalayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). Therefore we should not be attracted with this happiness, so-called happiness of material world. Aśāśvatam. Even if you think you are happy, you'll not be allowed to stay here.
Initiation Lectures
So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice that even one is put into the terrible condition of distress, he is not perturbed. Nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve... There are many verses like that. We can quote hundreds. Nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati (SB 6.17.28). If one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is not afraid, any condition of life. Na kutaścana bibhyati. Svargāpavarga-narakeṣv api. If he is put into the hell or in heaven or in the spiritual world or any world, he is happy. Tulyārtha-darśinaḥ. He thinks everything is all the same. "Either you put me in the hell or heaven or this or that, (it) is all the same." Because he is always with Kṛṣṇa, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is always with him. So where is the cause of being afraid that "This place is not good; this place is very good"? No. Wherever Kṛṣṇa is there is very good. That's all.
Puru dāsa. There was a very powerful king. His name was Puru. He was a devotee. The same thing, to become ruler of the senses. Come on. We are all ruled by the senses. Senses dictate and we follow. This is the general condition, and we have to become ruler of the senses. Then it is successful. Generally people are ruled by the senses. My sense says, "Please take me to the cinema," the eyes. I immediately go and stand there three hours for the ticket. You see? So I am ruled by the senses. And when you will be strong enough, the eyes will say, "Please take me to the cinema," and you will say, "No, you cannot go to the cinema." Then you are ruler. So one is go-dāsa. Go-dāsa means servant of the senses. And one is gosvāmī, master of the senses. That is the difference between gosvāmī and go-dāsa. Go means senses. When we are servant of the senses, then we are in the material world. And when we are master of the senses, then we are in the spiritual world. Come on. Hare Kṛṣṇa. You have got. All right.
Yogi, there are many yogis. They have got very exalted power, extraordinary power. Just like this Durvāsā Muni. He once traveled all over the space. Not only within this universe—he traveled outside the universe in the spiritual world, and he saw the Supreme Personality of Godhead face to face. He was such a powerful yogi. And he took only one year to come back again. So still, he was defeated by a devotee. He was very angry. Anyway, he was a great yogi. And anyone, a great personality, we should ask his blessings for making advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That's all.
General Lectures
This is a verse from scripture, that tarko apratiṣṭhaḥ, if you simply go on arguing about spiritual matters—"This is not, this is not, this is not, yes, this is not..." I say something; you say something. No, no, no. You cannot realize spiritual objects simply by this speculation, argument. Our argument or logical, I mean to say, strength has no access in the spiritual world. The Vedic mantra says, nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhyo na medhayā na bahunā śrutena: "Atma, the supreme self, cannot be realized pravacanena." Suppose I am very expert speaker, I can present things very nicely—but without any substance. Oh, that won't help you. Simply by jugglery of words, if I can captivate you, oh, that won't help you. Nāyam ātmā pravacanena. This is pravacana.
Yes, there is gradual evolution. From dog life, from animal life, again by evolutionary process... That is accepted by anthropo... What is called? Anthropology. That they come to the human being, again there is a chance to get out of this bodily embodiment, and you can get yourself free life in the spiritual world. So if you lose this chance, then you again go to the cycle of birth and death in so many forms of bodies. Therefore we should utilize this enlightened body, the human form of body, the civilized form of life, for our next eternal life. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). We should prepare ourself to go to that form of life which has no more birth, death, or disease or old age. Eternal life. Yes.
Yes. In the absolute platform everything is identical. In the relative world also. Just like anything you take, it is material. So material identity. Similarly, in the spiritual world everything is spiritual. So in the spiritual world God and God's son or God's friend or God's lover, anyone is the... They're in the same platform, spiritual. Therefore they are identical.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "The living entity is just like a molecular part of the sunshine, whereas Kṛṣṇa is compared to the blazing shining sun. Lord Caitanya compared the living entities to the blazing sparks from the fire and the Supreme Lord to the blazing fire of the sun. The Lord cites in this connection a verse from Viṣṇu Purāṇa in which it is stated that everything that is manifested within this cosmic world is but an energy of the Supreme Lord. For example, as the fire emanating from one place exhibits its illumination and heat all around, so the Lord, although situated in one place in the spiritual world, manifests His different energies everywhere."
Prabhupāda: Now, this is very simple. Try to understand. Just like this fire, this lamp, is located at a certain place but the illumination is distributed all over this room, similarly whatever you see, display of this cosmic manifestation, they are display of the energy of the Supreme Lord. The Supreme Lord is situated in one place. That we cite in our Brahma-saṁhitā: govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. He's a person. Just like your President, Mr. Johnson, he's sitting in his room in Washington, but his power, his energy, is acting all over the state.
Just like nobody wants to be dependent on other nation, nobody wants to be dependent on other people. Everyone wants to be independent, because this material world is perverted reflection of the spiritual world. But in the spiritual world, the more you surrender, the more you are servant, you are happy. You are happy. But we have no such understanding at the present moment. We have no spiritual idea, no spiritual realization; therefore we shudder as soon as we hear that we have to become servant of God. But there is no question of shuddering. It is very pleasant to become servant of God. You see so many reformers, they came, they served the mission of God, and they are still worshiped. So to become servant of God, servitor of God, is not very insignificant thing. It is the most important thing. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. But don't accept it. First of all try to understand. Therefore Vedānta-sūtra says, athāto brahma jijñāsā. Try to understand what is Brahman. (microphone is making sound) Why this sound? Try to understand what is Brahman and try to understand your relationship. And then, when you actually surrender, you'll feel your eternal blissful life, full of knowledge.
Similarly, there is a transcendental rays from the planet where Kṛṣṇa, or God, is there. Just a few minutes before I recited one verse from Bhagavad-gītā that na tad bhāsayate sūryo (BG 15.6). That means it is illuminating. There is no need of sunshine. Just like this planet is not illuminating; therefore we want light from the sun, from the moon, from electricity. But Bhagavad-gītā says that the planet of the Lord, there is no... Why planet? The sky. There is no need of sunshine. Every planet in the spiritual world is illuminating. So because every planet is illuminating, the whole spiritual sky is dazzling illumination. So one who approaches that dazzling illumination called brahma-jyotir, they are called impersonalists. Is it clear?
Prakṛti, prakṛti is energy. Energy is accepted as feminine. Just like these materialistic persons, they are also working under some energy. What is that energy? The sex life. That's all. They're troubling so much: "Oh, at night I'll have sex life." That's all. That is the energy. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). Their life is based on the sex. That's all. Everyone is working so hard, culminating in sex. That's all. This is material life. So energy. The material energy means sex. So that is energy. If a person who is working in the factory, if you stop sex, he cannot work. And when he's unable to enjoy sex life, then he takes intoxication. This is material life. So energy must be there. Here in the material world the energy is sex, and in the spiritual world the energy is love. Here the love is misrepresented in sex. That is not love; that is lust. Love is only possible with Kṛṣṇa, nowhere else. Nowhere else love is possible. That is misrepresentation of love. That is lust. So love and lust. Love is yogamāyā, and lust is mahāmāyā. That's all. (long pause) Is that all right?
Just like here you see Kṛṣṇa is in love with beautiful young girls. The same thing is here also. We are also accustomed to love beautiful girls, or beautiful girls accustomed to love beautiful boys. So the same thing is going on there in the spiritual world. It is simply reflection. The real thing is there in the spiritual world. It is simply shadow. The same loving affairs in a shadowy, hazy form is represented here. Originally it is in the spiritual world, in Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not to be supposed old man. God is never an old man. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is stated,
- advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam
- ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca
- (Bs. 5.33)
God, Kṛṣṇa, He's the original person because from the original father, you can take, from whom everyone has come. Therefore He's the oldest. Advaitam acyutam anādim ādyam. Ādyam means the original person. Man is made after God; therefore God is original person. So that person ādyam, acyutam, anādim, nava-yauvanaṁ ca. Nava-yauvanaṁ ca means He is always a young man. Just like you are all young men, attractive. Young life is attractive. So that youthful age is always in the spiritual world. And as the youthful means joyful life, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt... (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). All young boys and young girls, they are after joyfulness, but they are being frustrated in this material world. That is the inebriety.
That is the significance of the spiritual... They are eternally enjoying the loving affairs. And if you qualify yourself, then you leave this material world, this interaction of the modes of material nature, and be implicated in such things and you become free, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is very nice. Try to understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As soon as you become Kṛṣṇa conscious perfectly, you are no longer living in this material world. You are in the spiritual world. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam:
- samāśritā ye pada-pallava-plavaṁ
- mahat-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo-murāreḥ
- bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padaṁ paraṁ padaṁ
- padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām
- (SB 10.14.58)
Very nice verse. What is this? It is said, samāśritā ye pada-pallava-plavam. The lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa is compared with a very nice boat. Boat. Just like lotus flower. His everything is like lotus flower. One who has accepted this boat... Because this material world is a great ocean of nescience, darkness. This is the nature. Just like at night you see, this space is a great ocean of darkness. That is the nature.
So apart from that, here it is said, deha-bhājām. Deha-bhājām means "those who have accepted this material body." That means there are some, not some... There are many who have not accepted this material body. But they have no experience who has not accepted this material body, in this material world. That is there in the spiritual world. These living entities, innumerable living entities in so many universes in the material world or material universe or material nature, they are only fractional portion of all living entities. Only a fractional portion. Because they are condemned. Those who are in this material world, with this material body, they are condemned. Just like you take another example: just like in the prison house. The prison house, population in the prison house, they are condemned by the government. But their number is only fraction of the whole population, not that whole population of the state goes to the prison house.
There is no, I mean to say, difference between the Supreme Person and His name. Just like in the material conception there is difference. If you want water, simply by chanting, "water, water," your satisfaction will not be there. But in the spiritual world, everything being absolute, there is no difference between the name Kṛṣṇa and the person Kṛṣṇa. Therefore by... And it is the easiest process for you. You can chant this name "Kṛṣṇa." That means by sound contact, you contact the Supreme Person. That is a point of realization. You have to practice it, and you know it really.
The easiest process. Now I have began this movement in this country, say, from 1966. So I began in New York in a small storefront, and gradually they came. Now it is spread. There are about fifteen, sixteen branches all over your country, and these boys are practicing simply, the simplest process, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. This sound vibration, this transcendental sound vibration, immediately will carry you on the transcendental platform. And if you kindly hear also... You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and try to hear so that your mind is absorbed in the sound vibration. And this Kṛṣṇa sound vibration means Kṛṣṇa. Because Kṛṣṇa is absolute, God is absolute, there is no difference between God's name and God. Just like in the material world there is difference between water and the name "water," the "flower" and the thing, flower, in the spiritual world, in the absolute world, there is no such difference. Therefore, as soon you vibrate this transcendental sound, Kṛṣṇa, Hare, Rāma, immediately you associate with the Supreme Lord and His energy. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa...
There must be duties of the Brahman. The Brahman must be engaged. Otherwise... Because we want some work, because we are active... We are not just like stones. We cannot sit down. So there must be activities. Just study the nature of the child. He's always active, must be doing something. Maybe it is useless, but how can you stop the child's activities? That is not possible. Similarly, we are active. So simply by understanding that "I am spirit soul" will not help me. I must be active in the spiritual world. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Everyone is engaged in some activity of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And that will make him praśānta. Niḥśeṣa-mano-rathāntaraḥ kadāham aikāntika-nitya-kiṅkaraḥ. That stage of pacified condition of life can be attained, as it is stated by Yamunācārya, kadāham aikāntika-nitya-kiṅkaraḥ. Aikāntika. Aikāntika means absolutely, without diverting my mind in any other thing; nitya-kiṅkaraḥ, eternally servant of God, eternally servant of Kṛṣṇa.
No. Vaikuṇṭha. He's person. Brahmaloka, Brahmaloka is within this material world, and Vaikuṇṭha, in the spiritual world. Do you follow what I say? That if you want to know God, you have to approach a person who knows God. Otherwise there is no possibility. If you think that "Here is a man who knows God," then you ask him. If you don't think that in this world there is no man who knows God, then you have to remain in ignorance about the knowledge of God.
Ity ādi asmin eva purāṇe tatra tatra pathyate. So we were discussing janma-karma. Janma-karma-guṇānāṁ ca. Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's name, Kṛṣṇa's quality, Kṛṣṇa's form, Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, Kṛṣṇa's entourage, everything. Kṛṣṇa's abode, everything, they are one Absolute Truth. So any of these items you chant, it is as good as chanting the holy name of Kṛṣṇa. There is no difference. As in the material world there is difference between the object and the name or other paraphernalia, in the spiritual world they are all the same. That we require to understand. Because we have no spiritual understanding at the present moment, we sometimes are misguided, thinking... Just like Kṛṣṇa's pastimes with the gopīs, some rascal people take it as ordinary dealings between young boys and girls. But it is all transcendental. It requires, I mean to say, service attitude to understand this. The whole thing, the basic principle of understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness is surrender.
So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for that purpose, according to the order of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that make your life perfect and distribute the Vedic knowledge throughout the whole world. The time has come. This Bhagavad-gītā is being presented as it is in the foreign countries. And you can see simply by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and studying Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, how these boys and girls, they are in ecstasy. They are in the spiritual platform. You cannot expect such dancing and such joyful attitude in this material world. It is not possible. They are in the spiritual world.
This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a self-purification movement. The method is vibration of transcendental sound. This Hare Kṛṣṇa, this sound, is not material sound. It is descended from the spiritual world. Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's name—not different. Abhinnatvāṁ nāma-nāminoḥ. As in this material world there is difference between the name and the substance... If you are thirsty, then if you simply chant "water, water, water," your thirst will not be quenched. You have to get the substance water. But in the spiritual world it is, being absolute, the name and the person whose name we are chanting, they are the same. Therefore by chanting this holy name of God, Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa... Hare is addressing the spiritual energy of the Lord, and Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord.
That possibility is there. And if we simply can know what is the nature of God, or Kṛṣṇa, simply by understanding this fact one becomes liberated. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). A person who has understood the Absolute Supreme Personality of Godhead... It cannot be understood completely. That is not possible with our human intelligence, but with the help of Bhagavad-gītā, the statement given by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and the spiritual master, we can know Him to the best of our capacity. And if we can know Him, then the result is that immediately after leaving this body we enter into the kingdom of God. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti: (BG 4.9) "After giving up this body he does not come again to this material world, but he enters into the spiritual world and comes to Me." That is the statement.
So there, in the spiritual world, Kṛṣṇa's energy, everything there—variety, all variety. Here also, the varieties are there. That is expansion of Kṛṣṇa's material energy, and in the spiritual world the varieties are expansion of Kṛṣṇa's spiritual energy. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalā... Nija-rūpa, His own form, expansion. Goloka eva nivasati. Goloka Vṛndāvana. He is permanent resident there. Akhilātma-bhūto, but He is everywhere. Although situated in His own abode, Goloka Vṛndāvana, He can expand Himself. Because this material energy is also His energy, so from His energy He can manifest Himself anywhere. So here the Lord Kṛṣṇa and Rādhārāṇī, that is the same Kṛṣṇa and Rādhārāṇī who are in the Goloka Vṛndāvana. It is simply expansion to give us facility to accept our service. I think I have given many times this example. Just like in front of your door there is a mailbox. That mailbox, although it appears to be a small box, but it is post office. It is not different from post office.
Just like here, the most prominent feature in this material world is sex attraction. So that is there in Kṛṣṇa. We are worshiping Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, attraction. But that attraction and this attraction is not the same. That is real and here it is unreal. We are also dealing with everything which are present in the spiritual world, but it is only reflection. It has no real value. Just like in the tailor's shop, sometimes there are so many beautiful dolls, a beautiful girl is standing. But nobody cares to see it. Because everyone knows that "This is false. However beautiful it may be, it is false." But a living woman, if she is beautiful, so many people see her. Because this is real. This is an example. Here the so-called living is also dead, because the body is matter. It is a lump of matter. As soon as the soul goes away from the same beautiful woman, nobody cares to see her. Because it is as good as the doll on the window of tailor shop. So real factor is the spirit soul, and because here everything is made of dead matter, therefore it is simply imitation, reflection. The real thing is in the spiritual world.
"Beyond this material world there is another spiritual sky." There are also innumerable planets. And that sky is far, far greater than this sky. It is one-fourth only. And the spiritual sky is three-fourths. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, ekāṁśena sthito jagat (BG 10.42). This is only one-fourth, this material world. The other spiritual world is three-fourths. Suppose God's creation is one hundred. It is only twenty-five percent; seventy-five percent is there. Similarly, the living entities also, a very small fragmental portion of the living entities are here. And there, in the spiritual world, the major portion are there.
They're not ordinary. Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyā. Here in this material world everyone is worshiping Lakṣmī, or goddess of fortune. In the beginning of the year everyone worships Lakṣmī so that Lakṣmī may be pleased and money may come. But here (indistinct) we are worshiping Lakṣmī (indistinct), but there in the spiritual world not only one Lakṣmī but thousands of Lakṣmīs are worshiping Govinda. This is Kṛṣṇa's position. Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama. And they're worshiping with all respect. So Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu or Nārāyaṇa, They cannot be daridra. This is a misconception. This is manufactured concoction, daridra-nārāyaṇa. How Nārāyaṇa can be daridra? He's worshiped by many, many thousands of Lakṣmīs. How He can be daridra?
So Kṛṣṇa is brahmaṇya-deva and is surabhīr abhipālayantam (Bs. 5.29). The surabhī cows.... Why they're called surabhī cows? Surabhī cows means you can take that milk from surabhī cows as much as you require and as many times as you like. Here in the material world the cows are there, you can take milk from the cows utmost twice, and not as much as you like; as much as she likes to deliver, you can take. But surabhī cows, because they are in the spiritual world, you can draw as much milk as you can, and as many times as you can. But such cows are taken..., tendered by Lord Kṛṣṇa, surabhīr abhipālayantam. These are the descriptions in the Vedic literature about Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not an imagination. As the Māyāvādī philosophers, they think of imagining the form of God—Kṛṣṇa's not that type of God. He's described in the Vedas, Kṛṣṇa: kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28).
So, in my opinion, everyone is very, very anxious." Tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehinām. Dehinām. Dehinām means one who has accepted this material body. He's called dehī. Practically we do not require this material body, but we have accepted this material body for enjoying in this material world. In the spiritual world we can simply remain as servant. We cannot become master. Because in the spiritual world the master is one—Kṛṣṇa, or God—and everyone is servant. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). That is, that is our real position. Our real position is to serve. Now in the material world we have come here to enjoy, but we are serving. This is called māyā. Actually we are not enjoying; we are serving. Suppose I become president of a certain state. What is my position? My position is to serve the country there. But I am thinking, "Now I am president." Similarly, in family life the head of the family, he's thinking that he's master, but actually he's serving his wife, his children, his servant.
So we are simply satisfied within this material world by the shadow reflection of such thing, as in the spiritual world. Therefore we have got this opportunity of human life. Let us understand Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Let us understand Kṛṣṇa. And if you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ... Tattvataḥ, in truth, not superficially. Learn this science of Kṛṣṇa. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). This is the instruction: if you simply try to love. The process is that you worship the Deity, you take the prasādam, you chant the holy name, you follow the instruction of the spiritual master. In this way you'll be trained up how to understand Kṛṣṇa, and then you life is successful. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Where it is? So the same thing explained in the Vedic literature. Here it is said that "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God." So God being Absolute Truth, there is no difference between God, His form, His qualities, His words and everything relating to God. That is also God. Just like in the material world the name and the subject, or the substance, they are different. Just like when you are thirsty, you simply utter the word "water, water," it will not quench your thirst. But in the spiritual world, the name "God," or "Kṛṣṇa," and the Supreme Personality of Godhead, They are the same. Just parallel to this Bible passage I'll quote one Sanskrit verse from the Vedas.
One who is completely free from the reaction of sinful life, he can completely devote in the service of the Lord. So the common platform is there. God is neither Hindu nor Muslim, nor the method of approaching God may be different, but the ultimate end is how to love God or how to serve God. One cannot serve anybody without love. In the material world one serves another for matter of money exchange, reward. But serving God is not that. Here it is stated, ahaituky apratihatā. Service of God is without motive. Here in the material world we serve somebody with a motive, for some material gain. But in the spiritual world, to serve God means "It is my duty. I love him. I want to serve Him." Just like mother loves child. It is not like the maidservant who is paid.
Madhudviṣa: He wants to know... Kṛṣṇa says that once you are in the spiritual world you are full of bliss. Why would someone choose to come to this material world, which...?
Prabhupāda: That I have already explained. A rich man's son, he thinks that he will be happy independently. His father has got everything, but he goes out of home and chooses to live independently. That is a craziness. Similarly, when you come to this material world, giving up the protection of God, that is our craziness. So a crazy man must suffer. Therefore we are suffering. Yes. But you have the right to become a crazy. All right. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)
So we can see that it is the desire of the pure devotee. Whatever Kṛṣṇa wants, He does not have to work at all. His desires are immediately fulfilled simply by His desiring. Everything is fulfilled. By Kṛṣṇa's finger signal the whole material creation is created, brought about, and it's maintained by His separate energies. And everything is annihilated by Kṛṣṇa's will and created again. And Kṛṣṇa, He is fulfilling all His infinite desires in the spiritual world also. So as Kṛṣṇa's desires are immediately fulfilled, the pure devotee's desires are also fulfilled. That's because he is one with the Lord. His interests are the same are Kṛṣṇa's. This is the oneness, that the pure devotee has no desire but to see that Kṛṣṇa is satisfied. And so by Śrīla Prabhupāda's desiring this to come about, praying to Kṛṣṇa, therefore the devotees also praying and endeavoring have brought about that now Toronto is situated in such a nice temple, and just since opening that temple now so many new devotees have come and joined. So it's now very firmly situated in this big North American city to go on spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Departure Talks
So Viṣṇu and Nārāyaṇa is... There are many expansion. You have seen on the cover of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. There are different planets, and each and every planet there is the predominating Deity, Nārāyaṇa, Viṣṇu. They have got different names. So He is always associated with His eternal consort as well as devotees, many thousand, millions, in the spiritual world. In the material world... The creation of the material world is one-fourth demonstration of the whole creation, and this is one of the universes. In the material world there are innumerable universes. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi (Bs. 5.40). When Caitanya Mahāprabhu was requested by one of His devotee that "Sir, You have come. You just liberate all the residents of this universe, and that will make me very happy. And if You think they are so impious they cannot be liberated, then I am ready to take up their sinful activities. But You take them away," at that time Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "Even one universe is liberated, still there are so many universes. This universe is just like one mustard seed in the bag of mustard seeds." So just imagine how many universes are there. All these together, that is one-fourth energy demonstration of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, ekāṁśena sthito jagat (BG 10.42). It is only one-fourth of the demon..., manifestation. The three-fourth manifestation—in the spiritual world.
Philosophy Discussions
Śyāmasundara: He comes to that point in a way by saying that he has limited all that we can know to mere phenomena, and he has therefore found it necessary to deny knowledge of God, freedom and immortality in order to find a place for faith. In other words, he says that through the reason and the senses we cannot know anything about God, soul, immortality or freedom, so the rest has to be done by faith.
Prabhupāda: No. Faith, that is a compromise, you see. That is not fact. But this is good that he admits that we cannot approach the final God by our senses or reason. To have faith, that is also not perfect. Therefore the Western philosophers, they have created different faiths, and religion means faith. Somebody may believe in some faith, others may believe in another faith. But that is not factual. The factual is this: if we are actually convinced that there is God, and God is omnipotent, so by His omnipotency He descends. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). "Whenever there is discrepancies in the process of religious principles," abhyutthānam adharmasya tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham, "when people become irreligious, at that time I descend." He descends for two reasons: paritrāṇāya sādhūnām (BG 4.8), for relief of the devotees. Devotees are always anxious to see God, but somehow or other they are unable to see. Of course, they are seeing God, but at the same time face to face(?). So in order to give them relief God descends to be seen face to face. The other reason is that vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām: rascals, miscreants, to kill them. Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu, Kaṁsa, Rāvaṇa, they are the symbolic representations of miscreants. So to kill them. Two things. So one may say that God is partial. No. God is not partial. God is kind to everyone, both to the devotees and to the demons. The demons being killed by God, they get immediate salvation, whereas the devotees, by seeing God, they can understand what is actually the position of God. So God displays himself factually as He does in the spiritual world in Vṛndāvana.
Śyāmasundara: But say one has always been free. His understanding...
Prabhupāda: No, why? So long as we are entrapped by this material body you are not free.
Śyāmasundara: No but for instance, just an example, there is someone who has always been free in the spiritual world and he comes into the material world...
Prabhupāda: Yes. He comes for a mission, just like Kṛṣṇa comes. He is not born. He is not born like a materialist. Similarly Kṛṣṇa's devotee also comes, he is also not born. They come with a mission.
Śyāmasundara: I mean if someone is in the spiritual world, he falls down into the material world...
Prabhupāda: Falls down is different.
Śyāmasundara: ...yes, and then he becomes again released...
Prabhupāda: Again he is free.
Śyāmasundara: When we were discussing Plato, Plato has this idea also that the ideal precedes the physical representation and you said yes, that the ideal was in spiritual realm, it exists in the spiritual realm. Because of that we are able to conceptualize some idea.
Prabhupāda: Not that that idea is like this. Just like we have found that in the spiritual world and this is perverted reflection so in the śāstra we hear, cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu, the houses are made of touchstone. So we have never seen touchstone, neither you have seen a house made of touchstone. We have seen house made of bricks or wood. So this is, this may be an idea but that idea comes by hearing from authority. Not that we manufacture that spiritual world must be made up. Like this.
Śyāmasundara: So there is always some substance which forms the contents of the idea.
Prabhupāda: Yes, idea means there is substance but I have not seen it. That is idea.
Prabhupāda: Notion, notion is the same thing like that. You have got, you have seen gold and you have seen mountain so you can build a golden mountain. Although you have never seen what is golden mountain.
Kīrtanānanda: But if I have that idea of a golden mountain, that means that in the spiritual world that must exist?
Prabhupāda: No, not necessarily. Spiritual world means everything existing. Unless there is substance in the spiritual world there cannot be anything even(?). Because it is said, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Everything is (indistinct).
Kīrtanānanda: But I can form an idea that is not in the spiritual world. Am I understanding you?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Pradyumna: We're a reflection, just like (indistinct) there's no dogs in Vaikuṇṭha, but there's dogs here, the dog's mentality is here.
Prabhupāda: No, therefore it is called temporary. Dog is a spirit soul. The spirit soul is there. That's a fact.
Śyāmasundara: So somewhere must be the square root of minus one, even though...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is, spiritual world is like that. But here in this material world, we have got experience, one plus one equal to two, and one minus one equal to zero. In the spiritual world this does not apply. There one plus one equals one and one minus one equals one. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate (Iso Invocation), Vedic wisdom. Pūrṇam, that from the complete, you take the complete, still it is complete. So where you have got this idea? So therefore you have to know from the Vedic.
Śyāmasundara: So it must exist if I can...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: But what about the idea that God is evil?
Prabhupāda: He is evil also. He has got His evil also.
Śyāmasundara: I mean the energy, the amount of energy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That much, that spiritual energy is everywhere, in the ant or in the elephant.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Prabhupāda, you mentioned the size of the soul, and this size seems to connote a physical size. Now, my question is: in the spiritual world, size, it seems that it is a material concept, it is a relative thing, distance...
Prabhupāda: Material size and spiritual size is not the same. Spiritual size is permanent; material size is changing.
Atreya Ṛṣi: In other words, how could you measure the spiritual phenomenon with something like one-thousandth of the tip of the hair? Hair is material.
Prabhupāda: No. Because you have no spiritual vision, therefore you have to be understood by material example.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) by experience (indistinct). Just like you can predict that four months after, there will be winter season. This prediction is like that. You have got experience that last year there was winter season, and again four months after there will be winter season. We call this prediction of experience, that's all.
Atreya Ṛṣi: In the spiritual world everything is permanent.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Atreya Ṛṣi: There is no need for making predictions all the time.
Prabhupāda: No. Why there is? Prediction means when there is something wanting. There is no want at all.
Devotee: Once he's liberated, can he (indistinct)?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: This is a very nice definition. We accept it, this standard, but if you put material happiness and test by this standard, there is no happiness. There is no happiness. Therefore the conclusion should be, if we test with this acid test of happiness, it is impossible to get happiness in the material world. There is no question of happiness. These testing points are nice but as soon as we put any kind of happiness to this test, you will find it is failed. Take any standard (of) happiness, it will, neither of this test will be there. So the conclusion should be there is no happiness in the material world. These tests are applicable in the spiritual world.
Prabhupāda: No. If we have no perfect knowledge of the individuality... Individuality does not mean always evil and good. Just like in Vṛndāvana, the gopīs, they have got individuality, but that individuality is for Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they are all one. The objective is one. The example was given by my Guru Mahārāja that according to Vedic system, when one's husband is away from home, she does not dress herself very nicely, so she does not look very attractive. But the same woman, when the husband is at home, she dresses very nice. Now, this dressing or not dressing, they are two contradictory things, but the aim is the one; therefore that is one. The aim is the husband. For the husband's satisfaction she dresses and sometimes not dresses. So these two things, dressing and not dressing, apparently may be contradictory, but (if) the aim is one, they are the same. Similarly, there is variety in the spiritual world, but all the varieties, their central point is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore the varieties are also one.
Śyāmasundara: He means more in the sense that because of this material body, this material position, that is where evil arises, by identifying with this material condition only. Their real nature is spiritual. Personality is spiritual.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is contaminated. The varieties are there in the spiritual world. The same varieties when they are presented here with material contamination, it is called perverted. Just like the example in the Fifteenth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, ūrdhva-mūlam adhaḥ-śākham (BG 15.1), reflection on the bank of a river, reservoir of water, the tree is reflected, varieties are there. The trees or trunks, branches, twigs, flowers, everything is reflected, but they are all false. Real variety is there, on the bank of the river. Because it is reflection, it appears that everything is there in the perverted way, and then they are all false.
Prabhupāda: Hm. So overcoming the earthly existence means you enter in the spiritual world, because spirit soul is eternal. So from this atmosphere to another. That is explained clearly in the Bhagavad-gītā, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). After giving up this present body, this is material, so those who continue to, in the cycle of birth and death, they get another material body, but those who are Kṛṣṇa conscious, they do not get another material body, but he goes to Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference.
Hayagrīva: Kṛṣṇa says that over and over in Bhagavad-gītā. He says it many times.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that, that is for the dviṣataḥ krūrān (BG 16.19), those who are envious of Kṛṣṇa. For them, continuous. And those who are not envious, accepts Kṛṣṇa's instruction, surrenders unto Him and understands Kṛṣṇa, for them this is the last birth, material birth. After this he goes back to home, back to Godhead.
Hayagrīva: "...perhaps even doing so out of the realization that something remains to be completed. In my case it must have been primarily a passionate urge toward understanding which brought about my birth, for that is the strongest element in my nature."
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that understanding, I do not know whether he has fulfilled. That understanding is Kṛṣṇa. That is explained, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). That understanding is full, complete, when he comes to the point of understanding Kṛṣṇa, and as soon as he understands Kṛṣṇa, his life is successful. His, this journey, material journey, stops. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). That is full understanding. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). When he understands Kṛṣṇa in complete... And Kṛṣṇa is giving lesson how he, one can understand Kṛṣṇa completely. Asaṁśayaṁ samagram māṁ yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu (BG 7.1). Kṛṣṇa says, "Now hear how you can understand Me in complete, without any doubt." That He begins in the Seventh Chapter. So if we understand Kṛṣṇa in complete, without any doubt, then our next birth is in the spiritual world. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). This is the version of Bhāgavata. So we have got this opportunity, at least those who have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to understand Kṛṣṇa completely, without any doubt. Then our life is successful.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our opinion. Beauty, knowledge, strength and opulence—everything—they are transcendental. Here, in this material world, it is perverted reflection. Just like the example is the mirage. A fool, animal, is thinking there is water in the desert, and he is running after it, and after sometimes he dies of thirst because there is not. But a sane man knows there is no water; it is simply a reflection by the sunshine, and this foolish animal is running after it. So he does not..., a sane man does not go for this false water. But another thing is that because there is no water in the desert, it does not mean there is no water. Water is there, but not there. Similarly happiness, beauty, opulence—everything is there. That is in the spiritual world. Here it is only a perverted reflection. So generally people have no information of the spiritual world; therefore they imagine something God, something spiritual world. They do not take that "This is imagination, this material world." When Kṛṣṇa says, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9), they are reading Bhagavad-gītā, but this simple thing they can not understand, that a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, after giving up this body—the body has to be given up—then what happens? Kṛṣṇa says mam eti, "He come to Me." And other system says that after death he goes to hell or goes to heaven. So that is to some extent fact. This human life, if he understands Kṛṣṇa, he goes to the eternal abode—you can take it as heaven or something. Otherwise he remains in this material world to undergo the same cycle of birth and death. That is hell. It can be taken in that way.
Prabhupāda: Bījāhaṁ sarva-bhūtānām. In Bhagavad-gītā it is said, mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate, that even the spiritual world and material world, everything is emanation from Him. The difference is, in the material everything is created and maintained then annihilated. In the spiritual world that is not the case. Just like material world this body, and spiritual world the soul. The body is created, maintained and annihilated; the soul is not. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). After the destruction of the body, the spirit soul is not destroyed. What happens to him? He takes another body. And one who is perfect, he goes directly to Kṛṣṇa, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). So we can make this life... Because we are preparing for the next life, so why not take advantage of going back to home, back to Godhead? This is our mission. You have to prepare yourself either for going to the higher planetary system, yānti devān deva-vratāḥ... You can go to the higher planetary system, you can go lower, and you can go to Godhead. So they, therefore, if I have to change this body and go elsewhere, why not go to God? That is intelligence. Now what is the advantage? If you go to God, then you will have..., haven't got to change any more this body. That is eternal, blissful. Therefore our intelligence should be utilized how to go to back to home, back to Godhead. That is intelligence.
Hayagrīva: Plato would say that the flower is a shadow of reality, a perverted reflection of reality. So which point of view would be...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is... When the flower is in the material world..., material world is perverted reflection of the spiritual world. That's a fact. We have got experience that material things are created, but in the spiritual world things are not created; they are already there, everlasting. So it appears Aristotle has no knowledge of the spiritual world.
Hayagrīva: Aristotle defines God as pure form and pure act and purely nonmaterial. He is absolute spirit and is the unmoved mover.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He is absolute spirit, there is no doubt upon it, but why He should come to know Himself through material world? That is defective.
Prabhupāda: Kingdom. Yes. That is his falldown. When he decides to give up the spiritual life, he falls down in the material life, and that is the beginning of his material tribulations. And so long he will maintain a tinge of material happiness, the nature's life, that he has to accept, a type of material body, and there are varieties. So in all condition the spirit soul remains the part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, but according to the different body he gets different circumstances. A dog is thinking, on account of the dog's body, that he is a dog. A man is thinking that he is a man on account of the human body. The same thing—an American is thinking, because the body has been gotten from America, he is thinking "American." That similarly an Indian, a Hindu, Muslim, Christian, all these designations, due to the body. So when he understands that "I am not this body," this is spiritual education. That "I am different, I am part and parcel of God," then he becomes liberated, impersonally. And when he makes further advancement, and he comes to the platform of understanding the Supreme Truth as the Supreme Person, Kṛṣṇa, and he engages himself in Kṛṣṇa's service, that is his actual life. Kṛṣṇa, in the spiritual world, in the Vaikuṇṭha planets, in the Goloka Vṛndāvana planets, so they can be promoted to any one of them—in the Vaikuṇṭha planets or Goloka Vṛndāvana planet. Then he is happy as associate of Kṛṣṇa. He can enjoy life eternally.
Hayagrīva: For Origen there are two rebirths. One is a baptism, which is something like an initiation, and then there is a complete purification, a rebirth in the spiritual world with Christ. So baptism is compared to a shadow of the ultimate rebirth, and when the soul is reborn with Christ, it receives a spiritual body like Christ and beholds Christ face to face.
Prabhupāda: Christ behold?
Hayagrīva: The individual soul can then see Christ face to face when he attains his spiritual body.
Prabhupāda: What is the position of Christ?
Hayagrīva: What is the position of Christ?
Prabhupāda: He, does he describe anything?
Hayagrīva: Well, not Origen. The position of Christ is that he is seated at the right hand of the father, that he is in the spiritual sky with the father.
Prabhupāda: No, here, when Christ was present, so so many persons saw him. So what is the position?
Hayagrīva: This is St. Thomas, Thomas Aquinas, Thomas Aquinas, who lived from 1225-1274. He compiled the entire body of Church philosophy called Summa Theologe, and the philosophy of Thomas Aquinas is the official philosophy of the Roman Catholic Church. He, unlike Augustine, he did not distinguish so sharply between the material world and the spiritual world, or between secular society and the city of God. He felt that the entire creation, both material and spiritual, has its origin in the Personality of Godhead. He acknowledges at the same time that the spiritual world is superior to the material world.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (indistinct) Material world means temporary, and some philosophers, like the Māyāvādīs, they say it is false. But we Vaiṣṇavas, we don't say it is false, but it is temporary illusion. It is reflection of the spiritual world, but there is no reality. Sometimes it is compared with the mirage in the desert. There is no water in the desert, but sometimes, by reflection of the sun, it appears that there is water. Similarly, in the material world there is no happiness, but the transcendental bliss and happiness existing in the spiritual world is reflected here, and those who are less intelligent, they are after this illusory happiness, forgetting real happiness in the spiritual life.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The mat..., matter has no form. The spirit soul has got form. Though the matter is covering the actual form of the spirit soul, the matter appears to have form. Just like the original cloth has no form, but when the tailor cuts the cloth according to the body of the person, then the shirt and coat takes a form. The matter itself has no form. When you take clay, it has no form, but if you make it like a doll, like a man or woman, then it has a form. When the change the clay, and you manufacture a fort, then the fort has form. So form and formlessness is of the matter, but in the spiritual world everything has got form. The spirit soul has got form. God has got form. This is the truth.
Hayagrīva: Aquinas believed that only God and the angels have form that is not material. There is no difference between God's form and His spiritual self.
Prabhupāda: Yes. As in the material world any form-man or beast or anyone—in the outward, external covering is matter, but within the matter there is the soul. The soul has form and God has form. That is real form. And the material form is simply shirting and coating over the spiritual body.
Hayagrīva: (indistinct) Again, like Augustine, Aquinas believed that sin and man go together due to Adam's, the first man's original sin. All men require salvation. Salvation can only be attained through God's grace. The individual living entity has to assent by his free will in order for God's grace to function.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is bhakti. Bhakti is devotional service. So you, sevonmukhe hi jihvādau (Brs. 1.2.234), and bhakti is our eternal engagement. So salvation means when you are engaged in our eternal activities, that is called salvation, or liberation. When you are engaged in false activities, that is called māyā. Muktir hitvā anyathā rūpaṁ sva-rūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ. Muktiḥ means to remain in one's own constitutional position. In the material world we are also engaged in different types of activities, but they are with reference to the particular body. In the spiritual world spirit, as he is, is engaged in the service of the Lord. That is liberation.
Purports to Songs
So at the present moment, in material condition, it is not possible to understand, but this is the purificatory process. We have to chant śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare. This chanting process has got the spiritual value to lead us to the highest stage of understanding Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as we are capable of understanding what is Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, then it is possible for getting admission in the spiritual world. So all people interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness should follow the regulative principles, gradually raise himself one after another, and reach the highest successful transcendental platform of understanding Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. (end)
| Page Title: | In the spiritual world (Lectures, Other) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 24 of Mar, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=126, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 126 |