In the spiritual world (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"in the spiritual world" |"into the spiritual world" |"within the spiritual world"

Notes from the compiler: Vedabase query: "in the spiritual world" or "within the spiritual world" or "into the spiritual world" not "spiritual world there" not transfer*

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- July 16, 1968, Montreal:

Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā: cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). "I have created the four divisions of caste." It is not exactly caste; section, varṇa. So how you can stop? It is natural. So Bhāgavata recommends, Suta Gosvāmī is addressing, ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. This system of sectional division, this is... "He is brāhmaṇa, he is kṣatriya, he is vaiśya, he is śūdra, he is brahmacārī, he is householder, he is vānaprastha, he is sannyāsī." Or sub-section. "He is potter, he is washerman, he is this and that." You may divide it or not, this section will be there in every society. So Bhāgavata says that "You may be situated in any section. It doesn't matter." Either you be a kṣatriya or a brāhmaṇa or a potter or a washerman or whatever you may be, it doesn't matter. Everyone should be satisfied by his occupation. But how one gets successful by his occupation? He hasn't got to change the occupation. In the material world one has to change his occupation for certain kind of success. Suppose if you are a potter. Now, if you want to become engineer, so you have to change your occupation as potter. But in the spiritual world you haven't got to change your position, and still, you get success, spiritual life. That is the beauty. You haven't got to change. If somebody says that "Sir, I am potter. How can I be Kṛṣṇa conscious? It requires that one should be a brāhmaṇa, one should be very learned man, Vedānta philosophy, and one must have the sacred thread, and this and that.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 11, 1969, New York:

Devotee: Law and order.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Wherefrom the idea came to the human society unless it is there in the Absolute? How the idea comes? Therefore that law and order is Viṣṇu. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The idea of law and order came from Viṣṇu. How nicely explained. Janmādy asya. In two words, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Janma means creation, and ādi, ādi means first janma, then sthiti. Sthiti means staying, maintenance. And then dissolution. So three things. Yataḥ, from where these three things are happening. That means this world is being created from that source, it is being maintained by that source, and when it is annihilated it rests in that energy, the whole energy. Pralayaṁ yānti māmikam, Bhagavad-gītā. When everything is dissolved, the energy is absorbed by the energetic. So that is Absolute Truth. So Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam explains that Absolute Truth. Janmādy asya yata anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ (SB 1.1.1). In the Vedānta-sūtra it is simply said that "The Absolute Truth is that which is the fountainhead of everything." Now if fountainhead of everything, then what the Absolute Truth's nature shall be like? That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The first thing is that janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The factor, the Absolute Truth from which everything is emanating, so that emanation includes indirect and direct manifestation. What is that indirect and direct manifestation? The direct manifestation is the spiritual world and the indirect manifestation is this material world. Indirect manifestation means it is simply a shadow of the spiritual world. Just like in the Bible also it is said the man is made after God. So you have got two hands, one head, two leg. So the mental speculation is said that these devotees, they create God according to their own feature. Because I am two-handed, and therefore I create God with two hands, Kṛṣṇa. But actually, the fact is not that. Actually, because Kṛṣṇa has got two hands and we have got an imitation body of Kṛṣṇa, therefore we have got two hands. Because this is imitation. That we know everything, everyone. This body will not stay. Therefore it has got janma. Janma means birth or creation at a certain period, and it stays, say, for fifty years or hundred years. Then dissolved, dissolution. Therefore it is imitation. Just like if you create a doll, clay doll, very nice beautiful girl. But it will... It is imitation. It is shadow of the real beautiful girl. It is created at some time and... So reality is there in the spiritual world. Therefore it is called janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The idea comes from there, but the impersonalists, due to their intelligence being very meager, they think that the Absolute Truth is without any variety, impersonal or void. They think that varieties are only in the material world, but actually, real varieties are there in the spiritual world. It is only reflection, as it is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, ūrdhva mūlam adhah-śākha. Adhah-śākham. Aśvatthaṁ prāhur avyayam. Aśvattha... This material creation, material manifestation is compared with a banyan tree whose root is upward. And that I have explained several times how the tree can be upwards root. That means it is reflection.

Room Conversation -- April 11, 1969, New York:

Prabhupāda: The Māyāvādī philosopher, they do not take account of the mathematical calculation, 380 degree. They are taking account of... 360 degree, the whole circle. They are taking account only 180 degree. And other 180 degree they're making void. But actually, the whole point is 360 degree. That is geomatrical calculation. If you simply know 180 degree, then the other 180 degree is unknown to you. So real life, real variety, real beauty, real knowledge, everything in reality is there in the spiritual world. It is only reflection. Therefore Bhāgavata explains that janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ (SB 1.1.1). The Supreme Absolute Truth is cognizant, abhijñaḥ. Cognizant and svarāṭ. Svarāṭ means independent. In this way, the explanation of Brahma-sūtra is given in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Therefore Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is vaiṣṇavānāṁ priyam. Yad vaiṣṇavānāṁ priyam. Yasmin paramahaṁsam ekaṁ paraṁ jñānam jñeyate. The knowledge of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is to be understood by the paramahaṁsa, the highest perfected man, paramahaṁsa. It is not ordinary thing.

Room Conversation -- April 11, 1969, New York:

Devotee: Swamiji, if all things here are a reflection of what is perfect in the spiritual world, then shouldn't hate and frustration and despair and prejudice also appear in the spiritual world?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee: Does it?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee: Then isn't that... Aren't they bad?

Prabhupāda: But that frustration has no disappointment. (laughter) That is the beauty. Just like Lord Caitanya is manifesting that spiritual frustration. "Oh Kṛṣṇa, I could not see You." He's jumping on the sea in frustration. But that frustration is the highest perfection of love. Yes. Everything is there. But without inebriety. You are very intelligent boy. I thank you. Yes. Yes. There is frustration, but not this frustration. Yes. That frustration, I mean to say, enriches one's eagerness of love for Kṛṣṇa. Everything is there, but without inebriety. Everything is there. Yes. Now see, Viṣṇu? Of course, in Vaikuṇṭha-jagat there is no violence. But Viṣṇu is taking the symbol of violence. Otherwise what is the meaning of this disc and club? So when He wants to be violent, He comes here as Nṛsiṁha-mūrti. (laughter) And He sends some of His devotees to play violence.

Room Conversation -- April 11, 1969, New York:

Prabhupāda: So Radhārāṇī could not forget Kṛṣṇa. She used to come to Kṛṣṇa and stand like that. That's all. And He was playing. Kiśora-Kiśorī, They were boy and girl. But there is no inebriety. Just like here the boy and girls mix and there are so many abominable things. Distressful, which is binding their material bondage. So that friendship between boy and girl is there, but without inebriety. Kṛṣṇa had so many gopīs, girlfriend, but there was no contraceptive pills. (laughter) That is the beauty. Here, the so-called love is lust. And there, that is the highest. The same thing, obverted, perverted reflection. Just like in the original tree the topmost part has come down to the down. Similarly, in the spiritual world the highest, topmost level of love, parakiya... Parakiya means love not by marriage life, by friendship. That is there. But there is no such inebriety. It is pure. So perverted means the topmost thing has come down to the lowest. Here, this parakiya, loving other's wife or other's husband, is most abominable, adultery. Not allowed by society, not allowed by the state. But tendency is there. Even one is married, he wants to love another's wife. Or if the girl married (s)he wants to love another husband. Why? That is there. But without inebriety. That is the beauty. So everything is there, but here, that thing is reflected, pervertedly. Therefore misunderstood. There is so many other corollaries. You see? But you must know everything, that without being in the Absolute Truth there cannot be relative manifestation. This world is relative manifestation. So these things are not to be understood in the beginning, but as the questions came we discussed something. But you must know, as the Vedānta-sūtra says, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Everything is emanated from that Absolute Truth. That is the fountainhead of everything. We cannot manufacture anything. It is not possible. But this is shadow and that is reality. And in the shadow... Just like photograph. You find that everything in detail of your beautiful face in the photograph, but that is not reality. That's all. So you'll find everything in details, all... Or you can understand actual photograph, actual idea, actual notion of the spiritual world by scrutinizingly studying this material world. The impersonalists, they think that in the material varieties there are so many abominable inebrieties, therefore in the spiritual world all these things should be minus, void. That is their material calculation. They cannot think that in the spiritual world also there is love. Because here, in this world, the so-called love or lust is frustrated and followed by so many calamities that therefore they cannot conceive that in the spiritual world also there is love. Their idea, in one sense, is right, that how these nonsensical things can exist in the spiritual world? Therefore they make it altogether minus. No variety. Impersonal. That is less intelligence. They cannot understand that photograph is the reflection of the actual person. There is everything in detail. A movie. Actually, the same man is laughing, walking, dress, everything, but it is all false. That they cannot understand. Therefore the Vaiṣṇavas say they are less intelligent. The real understanding should be that if in the real person all these features are not present, how they can be reflected in the photograph? The Māyāvādī says, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. Brahman, the Absolute Truth, is real truth, and this world is mithyā. Then mithyā means it is a reflection or shadow. Mithyā does not mean that it has no existence. The shadow is also existence. Therefore Vaiṣṇava philosophers say that mithyā means temporary. Now you have got this body. This is temporary. That's the real understanding. And if I say it is mithyā, then if I kill you, then why I am punished? I can say, "Oh, it is mithyā, it is false. So what is their fault?" No. It is not mithyā. It is temporary. Not mithyā. Mithyā how can it be? Because it is reflection of the reality, therefore it cannot be mithyā. Then the reality becomes mithyā. Mithyā means not fact. The real explanation is that this is shadow. Shadow, but the reality is in the spiritual world, and that is indicated in the Vedānta-sūtra, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The fountainhead of all emanation. That is Absolute Truth.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 14, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: As the material shadow. How did we fall into that?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is very natural. Just like... (knock on door) Come on. Because jīva, although parā śaktī, he has got independence. So when he wants to imitate Kṛṣṇa... In the spiritual world Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer, and all others, they are enjoyed. Predominator and the predominating. The Lord is the predominating, so there is no disagreement. There they know, "The Lord is predominator. We have to serve." When this service attitude is impaired, that "Why serve Kṛṣṇa? Why not ourself?" that is māyā. Then he falls down in the material energy. There is no scope... Just like in the government system, there is no scope of freedom. You have to act according to government state laws. So long you are agreement, then you are free. If you disagree, then you are placed within the prison house. Similarly, jīva, independent, not fully independent, but they have got. Because part and part of God, therefore that independence quality is there. So when that independence quality is misused, then his place is in the material world. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāṅchā kare. When we forget Kṛṣṇa and try to lord it over something... And Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord. When we try to imitate His lordship, then our place is in the material world. We are given freedom, "All right, you lord it over here."

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1971, London:

Śyāmasundara: So they become separated.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: And Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the spiritual world, everything is composed of cintāmaṇi, just like here everything is composed of atoms. So suppose someone develops a spiritual form in the spiritual sky. That form, I mean, that cintāmaṇi, they are living entities also? Are they conscious entities or is that an expansion of the jīva soul's own potency? Just like if someone develops the form of a boy, cowherds boy with Kṛṣṇa, is that an expansion of his potency, of that living spirit soul's potency?

Prabhupāda: That you consider. That we imagine.

Haṁsadūta: That's why I'm asking. Or like in this world, so many living entities are forming of one spiritual form.

Prabhupāda: In one sense it is right. They are spiritual molecules. Yes. Here also, spiritual molecules, but here it is called material because there is no sense of Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1971, London:

Śyāmasundara: They're not separated any more.

Prabhupāda: That you should understand. Not that remembering or not remembering. Even in the spiritual world, they do not know that Kṛṣṇa is God.

Revatīnandana: The thing that was bothering me when I thought of this, that the brahma-jyotir, if it is jīvas, that they're all fallen souls, then I thought...

Prabhupāda: Fallen anywhere. When Kṛṣṇa is forgotten, that is fallen.

Revatīnandana: Yes. But what I thought was just like in a room there is so many particles of light. Already inconceivable. And, then the whole brahma-jyotir is all fallen souls, and they become so inconceivable...

Prabhupāda: Not so fallen as they are in the matter.

Śyāmasundara: Yes. Separated.

Revatīnandana: But not in their constitutional position.

Prabhupāda: They're not as fallen as those who are in this material.

Revatīnandana: That's right. But still if they go there, they will sometimes come back here again.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are not pure. They are not pure. That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ (SB 10.2.32). Aviśuddha. Aviśuddha means not purified.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Bob: Are the devotees...

Prabhupāda: They are above goodness. Śuddha-sattva. Devotees are not in this material world. They're in the spiritual world. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.

māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa

bhakti-yogena sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

brahma-bhūyāya kalpate

(BG 14.26)

Devotees are neither in the goodness, passion, or ignorance. They are transcendental to all these qualities.

Bob: This is a devotee who practices very faithful...

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Bob: A devotee who is very faithful reaches this stage?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Devotee, you can become devotee, as they have become. It is not difficult. Simply you have to engage yourself in the transcendental loving service of the Lord. That's all.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Devotee (1) (woman): Prabhupāda, is Lord Caitanya always carrying on saṅkīrtana in the spiritual world?

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is the father of the saṅkīrtana movement. Saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi sumedhasaḥ. This is the statement in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. This Lord, incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, is worshiped by saṅkīrtana yajña, and those who are intelligent, sumedhasaḥ, sharp brain, they worship this Lord by saṅkīrtana. This is the statement in the Bhāgavata. And, therefore, we worship Him with saṅkīrtana. This picture, He is being worshiped by saṅkīrtana. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti (SB 11.5.32). And they are all big men Śrī Advaita, Śrī Gadādhara, Śrīvāsa, and others, followers. That is the proof. Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇam, He is fair complexioned, but He is always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-varṇam iti, He is describing the science of Kṛṣṇa. These are the statement, and He is doing exactly the same thing. His accepting sannyāsa order is also mentioned in the śāstra. So everything we have to accept through three channels: sādhu, śāstra, guru. Saintly person, they you should accept; guru you should accept; and it must be mentioned in the śāstra. Guru cannot manufacture something. He must quote from the śāstra and then tell to his disciple. So disciple, as soon as he receives a message from guru corroborated by the śāstra, then he should take it as fact. This is the way. Why there should be any more doubt? What is your argument?

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: Hm. But anyway, because you are living in this country, you must have some friends. Whenever you talk with your friends, you talk about Kṛṣṇa. Don't waste your time in other ways. That will be beneficial for you and for your friends. And before talking about Kṛṣṇa, you should know about Kṛṣṇa. And you can know about Kṛṣṇa very easily by understanding Bhagavad-gītā. So read Bhagavad-gītā thoroughly. Try to understand it and you can distribute it. That is a great service to Kṛṣṇa, to your personal self, and to the person you are speaking about Kṛṣṇa. And four principles of impious life, as it is accepted by our Vedic followers, namely, no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. That will give you strength and over and above that, if you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra... You can chant. It is not difficult. There is no loss. You can chant. That will give you spiritual strength. And in this way try to become spiritually powerful and serve Kṛṣṇa. It doesn't matter where you are. It doesn't matter. Everywhere is Kṛṣṇa's kingdom. Sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). He is the proprietor everywhere. So if you be in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so wherever you may be, you'll be with Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you remain with Kṛṣṇa, you are not living within this material world. You are living in the spiritual world. So, especially I request Indians, as it is ordered by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra: (CC Adi 9.41) "Anyone who has taken birth on the holy land of Bhāratavarṣa, India," janma sārthaka kari, "just make your life successful by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and preach it." This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order. So if you take it you'll be happy, your neighbors will be happy, the world will be happy. And Kṛṣṇa-kathā means to present Kṛṣṇa as He is. Don't misinterpret by us..., just like some rascals do. Even a great scholar known all over the world practically in scholarly circle, he has practically vilified Kṛṣṇa by his so-called scholarship. Now he's suffering. He has lost himself, we have practically seen. So that is a great offense, to vilify saintly persons or God. That's great offense. So read Bhagavad-gītā as it is, present it as it is. Then your life is successful. Now, if you have got any question we can discuss.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Guest (2): What is the speciality of Vedic injunction compared to Hebrew scriptures?

Prabhupāda: Vedic injunction is, the ultimate goal of human life, to go back to home, back to Godhead. That's all. This is not... As... I have already explained that this is not our home, material world. We are spirit soul. Our real home is spiritual world. So in the lives, different species of life, 8,400,000's of species of life, they cannot understand it, that we are spirit soul, our home is in the spiritual world. They cannot understand it. That opportunity is available in this human form of life. Therefore if we don't take advantage of this information and prepare ourself accordingly, then we are losing the opportunity. Tad api aphala-janma. Anāśrita govinda-caraṇa-dvayam.(?)

Guest (2): But how does this differ from the Hebrew scriptures? Hebrews also say the same thing, you know, that you have fallen down from the heaven and go back...

Prabhupāda: But Hebrew... Hebrew, Indian, there are... The aims is the same—back to home, back to Godhead. The process may be different. The process may be different. Just like everyone wants some money. Without money he cannot exist. The process may be different, how he's earning money. Similarly, every religion, the aim is to go back to home, back to Godhead. Now the process may be different according to country, time, climate, men. That is another thing. But the... The same example. Either you are businessman or in service or working, craftsman, the aim is you require some money. Without money you cannot exist. This is crude example. Similarly, the aim is we are part and parcel of God. We... Unless we go back to home, back to Godhead, there cannot be any peace. That understanding is possible to develop in this human form of life, not in the animal form of life. Therefore every human being should take advantage of this human form of life and develop this idea of going back to home, back to Godhead. Either you do it through Hebrew religion or Christian religion or Hindu religion, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. If your aim is... Just like at the present moment people want money. If he gets money it doesn't matter in which way he gets the money. Money we must have. Similarly, the aim should be fulfilled. Either you fulfill it through the Hebrew or through Hindu or Christian or Mohammedan, it doesn't matter. But if the aim is missed, then you miss everything.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: Then they are Kṛṣṇa conscious. Somehow or other, this is the goal. In fighting also there is Kṛṣṇa. Somebody may become a demon, Kṛṣṇa is fighting, carrying Him away. These are described in the Kṛṣṇa book.

Devotee (5): I noticed that, that everything is in there, even blind man's bluff, and hide and seek. These things originated in the spiritual world.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (5): That everything is in the Kṛṣṇa book to engage the children.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Children here play hide and seek, which is also..., the gopīs play.

Devotee (5): Cowherd boys.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Cowherd boys play the game.

Prabhupāda: Yes, also in India. That is a popular play for children. We..., we played. It gives great pleasure, that "I have hidden; my friend cannot see me." This is going on.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: Just like Kṛṣṇa planet is also like lotus.

Yadurāṇī: Jaya, so, so it has...

Prabhupāda: Just like here in this material world the Brahmā's planet is the ultimate. That is also like mat..., lotus flower, and in the spiritual world the ultimate planet is Kṛṣṇa-loka.

Yadurāṇī: So you would have palaces and garden scenes and Lord Brahmā perhaps on his throne?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-lakṣāvṛteṣu (Bs. 5.29). There are palaces, trees, everything. They are not voids. The voidist cannot understand what is there.

Devotee (7): And Śrīla Prabhupāda, can we paint more informal portraits...

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee (7): ...of yourself and the other ācāryas to send to the temples? Or should we...

Yadurāṇī: Informal.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Yadurāṇī: Informal. That is, Puṣkara painted a picture of you sitting in a very formal position.

Prabhupāda: Ah ha...

Yadurāṇī: Should we stick to formal positions, or is it all right to do informal pose, like just your head and your chest?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Formal.

Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: That is our chanting.

Mrs. Keating: Oh.

Prabhupāda: We are chanting always the holy name of Kṛṣṇa. These have got special significance because Kṛṣṇa is absolute. There is no difference between Him and His name. Here, just like this milk substance and the milk name is different. If I want to take milk, simply if I go on chanting "milk" and "milk," that will not satisfy. I must have the substance milk. But in the spiritual world the Absolute has no differentiation between His name, ...between His name, between His quality, form, entourage. They are the same. So this chanting of holy name means that directly associating with Kṛṣṇa. Directly associating with Kṛṣṇa.

Ambassador: It's a constant reminder to yourselves of the...

Prabhupāda: ...of my relationship with Kṛṣṇa.

Ambassador: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is it.

Ambassador: Oh, that's very... I'm very much impressed with the sincerity of these American...

Prabhupāda: As soon as one understands this science, he would accept immediately.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- May 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Without the inconvenience. Mean, in the material world there are so many inconveniences. So spiritual world, there is no inconvenience. Inebriety. It is a reflection of the spiritual world, but there are so many difficulties here. Therefore it is called material world.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, my question being, so they have all the variegatedness in the spiritual world?

Prabhupāda: Yes there are trees, there are water, birds, beasts, but they are all spiritual. Just like here everything is material. Here water is working according to the material laws. In the spiritual world if I say, "Please come here," he will come here. That is spiritual world.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the difference is that the spiritual...

Prabhupāda: Everything spiritual... As here everything is material, there everything is spiritual. Now try to understand what is matter, what is spirit. Spirit, as I was explaining yesterday, the spirit is the conductor, operator, of the aeroplane. So matter is working under the guidance of spirit. So there everything being spirit, there is no necessity of another spiritual guidance.

Morning Walk -- May 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Just like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa had so many girlfriends. There are so many nice descriptions of embracing, kissing, but there is no pregnancy or abortion. There is no description of such things. And that is spiritual world. The attraction for young boy, young girl is there also. They are also enjoying their company. Everything is there. But there is no such thing as pregnancy and abortion. Here people do not want that, pregnancy and abortion. But they are forced to do it because there are so many inebrieties here. That thing is minus in the spiritual world. They are also attracted by the bodily features of the women. There is attraction, but they are more attracted by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Therefore this bodily attraction of woman does not affect them. Just like if you have got better attraction, you don't care for the lower attraction. The attractions are there. The body of the woman is very beautiful. But men are not so much attracted with the body of the woman. They are more attracted to Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. These are described in the Bhāgavata. Here also, practically we see, those who are attracted by the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, they are not very much attracted with the bodily features of the women. Is it not?

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Understanding that in the spiritual world... In the Vaikuṇṭha planets, we get that all the inhabitants are four-handed forms of Nārāyaṇa?

Prabhupāda: Yes, exactly like Nārāyaṇa. Their bodily features... Just like here, you cannot distinguish by the bodily feature who is President Nixon, who is a common man. You cannot distinguish by the bodily feature. Similarly, there also, you cannot distinguish who is a common man and who is Personality of Godhead. They are like that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But still, there are plants and all the living entities in the Vaikuṇṭha...

Prabhupāda: They know. Because they have full knowledge, "He knows here is God. Although he is four-handed, I am four-handed, but here is God." Because there is full knowledge. That is the difference. Here we are selecting some rascal as God, because we have no full knowledge. There, in the Vaikuṇṭha planets, although the common citizens and God is of the same feature of the bodily, but they know, "Here is God, the Supreme." He has got special signs in the... Yes, that's all. Just like the king or the president, we may make mistake. We may accept somebody as "Here is president." No. But the associates of the president, he knows. They know that "Here is president." Similarly, there is no question of mistake there. Four kinds of defects of material life—to commit mistake, to become illusioned, to cheat, and imperfection of the senses—these things are not there. Everyone's senses are perfect. When he sees God, he sees perfectly. He does not mistake. He is not illusioned. And there is no cheating and there is no imperfection of the senses. There is no mistake. These are spiritual life.

Conversation with Sridhara Maharaja -- June 27, 1973, Navadvipa:

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Mārkaṇḍeya also in Bhāgavatam, Mārkaṇḍeya worshiped Śiva. But that is the devotee Śiva. It is clearly mentioned in Bhāgavatam. Mārkaṇḍeya's worshiping Śiva. But that Śiva is the pure devotee of Nārāyaṇa.

Prabhupāda: Pracetās, Śiva, the Pracetās met in this material world or in the spiritual world? They met in the material world.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: I can't remember that particular... But Śiva, this side also Śiva, in the nirviśeṣa, on the lower side of the nirviśeṣa is also Śiva, and the higher side of the nirviśeṣa is also Śiva. Then Nārāyaṇa.

Prabhupāda: Here, he's Bhūtanātha, leaders of the atheistic-class of men.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Atheistic class. And his paraphernalia is Nandibhṛṅgi, bhūta, and his, and his eldest son is Vināyaka, and he misguided... The leader of the misguided, Vināyaka, Gaṇeśa.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Vināyaka. Vi-gata...

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Vināyaka. Not proper nāyaka. Vikṛta-nāyakaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Vikṛta-nāyakaḥ.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Vināyanikapamode-śuddha-prabhu, (?) that are protected by Kṛṣṇa, and they, they...

Prabhupāda: But in Brahma-saṁhitā Gaṇeśa is described: vighna-nāśa.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Vighna-nāśa, but with the help of Nṛsiṁha-deva on his kumbha.

Prabhupāda: Oh, I see. Yat-pāda-pallava-yugaṁ vinidhāya.

Room Conversation with Father Tanner and other guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Father Tanner: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So Lord and Lord's name, They're the same, identical. Just like we are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So this Kṛṣṇa name and the Kṛṣṇa person, identical. Because the Lord is absolute. In the material world, the world of duality, the name is not the substance. If you require water, simply by chanting "Water, water," your thirst will not be quenched. You require the substance water. But in the spiritual world, the Lord and His name, the same thing. If you chant the Lord's name, Kṛṣṇa, or any name of Lord, that is identical with the Lord. Therefore by chanting the holy name of the Lord, you are associating with the Lord. And as soon as you associate with the Lord, you become purified. Because Lord is all-pure. Just like if you associate with fire, you become warm. Similarly, if you constantly associate with the Lord, you remain purified. Therefore our principle is they are always chanting... Just like we are... I am chanting also. (Holds up beads) Or reading some book. Or talking with you about Kṛṣṇa. So we are always connected with Kṛṣṇa, or God. In all our activities... The whole house, you'll see, they are engaged in some sort of work which has connection with Kṛṣṇa. There is no other work. So nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe. Anything attached with God, that is also godly.

Morning Walk -- August 30, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Somebody, somebody says so many things...

David Lawrence: Yes, that's right. Oh yes, I mean if you take them, they all differ in their views. But one of the things, one of the themes that comes through is the idea that...

Prabhupāda: Therefore the gentleman the other day was asking, "How is that you say electricity?" Oh you were not present that time? Because we have translated there is no need of sun, there is no need of moon, there is no need of electricity in the spiritual world. So when he heard the word electricity, he became astonished.

Śyāmasundara: He thought the word did not exist at the time?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

David Lawrence: Yes, I must admit I was amazed at that reference, reading that yesterday.

Prabhupāda: That frog philosophy is going on. Dr. Frog. He's simply calculating the well, that's all. How there can be Atlantic Ocean? That is frog philosophy. You know frog philosophy? Yes?

David Lawrence: Yes.

Interviews with Macmillan and various English Reporters -- September 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is a spiritual process because Kṛṣṇa and the name Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa the person and Kṛṣṇa the name, They are nondifferent, Absolute. That is the God's special power. Just like in the material world, if you want water, simply by chanting the name "water," you'll not be benefited.

Reporter (3): No.

Prabhupāda: But in the spiritual world, the name, "water," and the substance water, is the same. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's name is the same. So if you chant Kṛṣṇa, you immediately directly contact with Kṛṣṇa.

Reporter (3): What do you see as being the future of the world? What will happen? Will there be an end?

Prabhupāda: Future, future of the world, because the people are trained up in the bodily consciousness of life, "I am this body." So so long people will remain in bodily consciousness of life, that is animal life. That is not human life. So they have to be educated to spiritual consciousness of life, that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul." Then they'll be benefited. Otherwise, they'll degrade more and more.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Acyutānanda: Which is more important, to go back to Godhead or spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Well, one who is preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he's already back to Godhead. (break) ...īhā yasya harer dāsye karmaṇā manasā girā. Preacher means he has engaged his body, his mind, his speeches only to glorify the Lord. That is preacher. So anybody who's engaged that business, he's jīvan-muktaḥ sa ucyate. He's liberated even in this life. (break) ...even if he's liberated. So why he should seek for liberation? He's already liberated. He's already back to Godhead. He's already with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is talking with him. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi... One who is actually preacher, engaged in Kṛṣṇa's glorification, service, he's already in Vaikuṇṭha. That is stated in Bhāgavata. Etad īśanam... It's just like Kṛṣṇa. If He comes within this material world, does it mean that he's in the material world? Similarly, Kṛṣṇa's pure devotee, he's not in the material world. In the spiritual world.

Morning Walk -- December 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Yaśomatīnandana: Even if they go to heavenly planets by following Vedas, still they will be able to live longer, but by their mundane efforts they will not be able to increase...

Prabhupāda: No, nobody... In the material world there is no question of living forever. That is not possible. That is in the spiritual world.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, when the scientists explain why there are so many varieties of living entities, they have an explanation.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say, "At the time of evolution, the cells, the genes, sometimes..." Normally the gene is perfectly copied for the next generation, but sometimes there is a mistake in copying. Just like in the printing press sometimes we do some mistakes. Just like that, there are some mistakes along the path of evolution. So those mistakes, sometimes they just, according to the circumstances, they can stand, and they form a different living entity because of the difference of the genes.

Prabhupāda: But the mistake is continuing forever, because you'll find the varieties of living entities ever-existing. Therefore the mistake is permanent. So when it is permanent, it is not mistake. It is intelligence.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Umāpati: Śraddhā is in every person then.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore I say it is covered. It is covered. That covering has to be taken away. That is called bhajana (indistinct). That is called culture.

Umāpati: Upāsanā.

Prabhupāda: Upāsanā, bhajana, sādhana, culture, whatever you say. He has to awaken that śraddhā, more and more.

Yaśomatīnandana: Prabhupāda, is every jīva given a chance in the beginning to go in the spiritual world? Then he falls down, or...?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yaśomatīnandana: Or sometimes the jīva may choose directly...

Prabhupāda: The jīva is atomic. It is smaller than the atoms. One ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatāṁśaḥ sādṛśātmakaḥ (CC Madhya 19.140). So every living entity, atom.

Yaśomatīnandana: Is he first allowed...?

Prabhupāda: Less than the atom. Smaller than the atom.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda: Another argument.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hṛdayānanda: Many times, the professors, they say that "If God, if god were actually all, all-good and all-perfect, then when He created us, we would also be all-good..."

Prabhupāda: Yes. But you are contaminated. You are all-good. That's a fact. Because you are part and parcel of God, you cannot be bad. But you are contaminated.

Hṛdayānanda: Well, they say that "Even, even if I have the potential... Even to say that I ha..."

Prabhupāda: You have got the potential. That's it.

Hṛdayānanda: But if I say that... If I, I'm originally in the spiritual world, but even the potential to fall down is an imperfection in the creation.

Prabhupāda: No, potential does not fall down. Just like a child has got the potency to pass the M.A. examination. So he has to be educated. If you don't educate him, he'll remain a foolish child. So we are educating to develop that potentiality.

Room Conversation with Latin Professor -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So therefore, when one is God conscious, how he can kill another animal? He knows that "If I am killed, I feel pains and pleasure, pains, then why shall I kill him? And he's also son of God. I am also son of God. So God, how He can allow to kill another son?" Suppose a father has got ten sons. One is useless, cannot earn anything. If the earning son says, "Father, he is useless, let him... Let me kill him," the father will agree? No. Father is kind to everyone. So similarly, when one is God conscious, if he kills animal, that means he has no sense of God consciousness. He has no sense of God. That is the test. So our propaganda is that you make people God conscious. Then all good qualities will come. Instead of trying to qualify man in so many ways—"You don't become thief, you don't become murderer, you don't become this, don't become this, don't become intoxicant"—simply by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, he becomes everything, by one stroke. That is our propaganda, that if one becomes God conscious, then he is becoming perfect, not necessarily, materially and spiritually, both. And that is happening practically. Now these boys, these girls, they are Europeans, Americans. They were accustomed to so many bad habits and according to our standard, and now they have given up. They have no illicit sex, no gambling, no meat-eating, no intoxication, even up to smoking or drinking tea. Yes. We don't allow our students... Not allow. They become accustomed. Once I say, "Don't do this," they agree. They agree immediately. Intoxication. There were many students, they were habituated to this nowadays intoxican... Immediately gave up. And your government is making so much propaganda to give up this intoxication. They are failure. So a little God consciousness helps so much. And what to speak of when one is perfectly God conscious? Then he's perfect man. Therefore a devotee is not of this material world. He's in the spiritual world. He's above this material world. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26).

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: This form may be created or it exists at a certain state of time, but the energy is never created.

Prabhupāda: So that also we admit. That is another thing. But the... Therefore we have got two departments, the spiritual world and the material world. In the material world everything is created. In the spiritual world, not created. It is ever-existing. And anything which is created, that is annihilated.

Karandhara: The energy is not annihilated.

Prabhupāda: No. That we also accept. But that energy belongs to whom?

Karandhara: Well, they say that because it was never created, it doesn't have to be created.

Prabhupāda: No, no. This material world is created. That you cannot say, "It is not created." Everything we see in our front, everything is created.

Karandhara: Well, they say, "Nothing is created."

Prabhupāda: No. Created, in this sense, it is manifested.

Morning Walk -- December 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Not formidable. They can easily conquered.

Hṛdayānanda: I have heard that Amarendra is defeating them in Gainesville. He goes to scientific meetings and he defeats them. And the devotees go in the audience, and they cheer, and he defeats them.

Prabhupāda: That's right. (break)

Prajāpati: Is it sometimes cold in the spiritual world?

Prabhupāda: No. (laughter) You don't like to go there?

Prajāpati: Oh yes, I like to go there. Actually, I would rather be here in the cold with you, Śrīla Prabhupāda, than be in the warm without you.

Prabhupāda: We get the information from Bhagavad-gītā. It is said, na tad bhāsayate sūryaḥ. There is no need of sunshine. So how it can be cold? Sunshine is required where it is cold, but there is no need of sunshine. Naturally, the conclusion should be it is neither cold neither hot. It is enjoyable. Cold, heat, all troubles, they are in the material world. The spiritual world is simply blissful life, enjoying. (break) As soon as the light is there, the darkness is gone. So why in the night there is darkness if he is light? Why in the night meeting these rascals require other light, electric light, if he is light? What kind of light he is? If he is light, at least they could save the expenditure of electric lights. But why does he use electric light?

Prajāpati: He says he only sees light when he closes his eyes.

Prabhupāda: Close?

Prajāpati: Like this.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, close or open...

Devotee: Inner light.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Inner light, not outward light. Then he is not absolute. He is relative. He is relative. He is not absolute. So God is absolute. But you are relative. Therefore you are not God.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 11, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...therefore they see that this, their conception of Kṛṣṇa, there is mother, there is father, there is friend—"So what is this? Here also we see the mother, father, friend. So how they become free?" They cannot understand. Their brain is so poor they cannot understand. Therefore they: "It is also māyā. To think of Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme, having father, mother, friends, playing pastimes, this is also māyā." Therefore they are called Māyāvādīs. They cannot conceive that in the spiritual world exactly the same things there are, but the position is different. That is absolute, without any designation.

Candanācārya: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Candanācārya: Also this morning you said that we should try to only love Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Candanācārya: And nothing else.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 6, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So destiny is that we should devote our life for awakening Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This human life is meant for that purpose. By nature's way, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27), nature is bringing us. As soon as we become sinful, we are dropped down to suffer the sequence of sinful life in different varieties. Again, just like a man, criminal, is put into the jail, but when his time is finished, again he is made free. Similarly, the cycle of birth and death, dehāntara-prāptiḥ, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), one after another, is going on. So the animal life means reaction of sinful life, and upper class of life, demigods, means result of pious life. Two kinds of things are there, sinful and pious, through the cycle of birth is going on. But this human form of life or above human form of life, it is a chance for understanding the real value of life, and therefore for human beings there are guidances, these Vedas, Purāṇas, Vedānta-sūtra. It is meant for the human beings, not for the cats and dogs. Anādi-bahirmukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli gela ataeva kṛṣṇa veda-purāṇa kaila (CC Madhya 20.117). So it is recommended in the human form of life, first of all training as a brahmacārī, then he may remain as gṛhastha for sometime. The life is divided into four parts, twenty-five years. Suppose I live a hundred years: twenty-five years to become brahmacārī, remain as brahmacārī, and twenty-five years to remain as gṛhastha, family man, and twenty-five years as vānaprastha and twenty-five years as sannyāsa. This is system, Vedic system. Sannyāsa means vānaprastha is the prepāration for sannyāsa, and sannyāsa means completely dedicated to the service of Kṛṣṇa. This is our system. Just like you are spirit soul. Our business is not here. Our business in the spiritual world. Here, by circumstances you have fallen into the material condition, but if you take "This is all-in-all our duty," that is not advised in the śāstra. It is circumstances. We have fallen into, under certain circumstances, so we have to take care of. The real duty is to how to save myself from this material entanglement.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So these are the questions. So the answer will be there.

Chandobhai: Yes, answers. Akṣaraṁ brahma paramaṁ svabhāvo 'dhyātmam ucyate.

Dr. Patel: Param Brahman is akṣara.

Prabhupāda: Akṣara? First of all try to understand. Akṣara... Akṣara means, "that does not fall down." That is akṣara. Akṣara and kṣara. The spiritual world is akṣara, and this material world is kṣara. So the living entities or God in the spiritual world, they are all akṣara. And in the material world we are all kṣara. Therefore akṣaram paramaṁ brahma. The Supreme...

Chandobhai: Svabhāvo 'dhyātmam.

Prabhupāda: Svabhāvam.

Dr. Patel: Sva means "own."

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Patel: Bhāva means...? Bhāva (Gujarati)? Essence, essence.

Prabhupāda: Sva-bhāvaḥ means nature.

Dr. Patel: Nature. Sva-bhāvaḥ...

Chandobhai: Adhyātmam.

Dr. Patel: Adhi-ātma. That is the...

Chandobhai: That is real bhāva.

Prabhupāda: Adhyātma. Adhyātma means bodily and mentally.

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: "That is due to My influence, all these things."

Dr. Patel: Aham idaṁ kṛtsnam ekeśena sthito jagat.

Prabhupāda: This is only ekāṁśa vibhūti. All this described, this is only one part. The three parts—in the spiritual world. This is all description of the material world. Now, this is only one part manifestation, and the three part manifestation—in the spiritual sky.

Chandobhai: Tri-pāda... (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: This thing. Today is Ekādaśī.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel:

arjuna uvāca

mad-anugrahāya paramaṁ

guhyam adhyātma-saṁjñitam

yat tvayoktaṁ vacas tena

moho 'yaṁ vigato mama

(BG 11.1)

Prabhupāda: Moha, moho 'yam... "What you were, now I have lost. I was thinking that you are an ordinary friend, but now that moha is gone. I understand You are the Supreme Personality of Godhead."

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: And that is absolute. When he goes back to home, back to Godhead, that is absolute. So long he is in the material world, changing body, transmigrating from one body to another, that is not absolute plane. That is the duality plane, dualism. When we go back to home, back to..., in the spiritual world, that is absolute.

O'Grady: When he goes back to his original.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Thank you very much. That is the position. That is absolute.

O'Grady: So you don't find it possible to achieve any absolute condition in our time?

Prabhupāda: No. In the material world it is not possible. This is the world of duality. Therefore so many different varieties of unity is suggested, but they are all failure. Just like when we were students in 1917, so there was League of Nations. And after that again there was war.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: So there are so many problems. On the whole, the material world is full of problems. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā by the Supreme Being, Kṛṣṇa, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). "It is a place of miseries." You cannot make things very rightly going on. It is not possible. Therefore the best purpose will be served-leave this place, material world, and go to the spiritual world. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are advising people to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, and that way, he will be able to leave this place of miseries and enter the eternal life in the spiritual world. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9).

mām upetya punar janma

duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam

nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ

saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ

(BG 8.15)

This is our... We don't try to adjust things here; it is not possible. It is not possible. However big philosopher I may be—I may give my ideas—it will never be possible to make here things peaceful. No, that is not possible. Just like if you want to make the lavatory very scientifically..., it is, after all, lavatory. Every minute it is becoming contaminated. So similarly, this world is so contaminated that you cannot make it completely free from contamination. That is not possible. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). It is a place of miseries. And actually it is the fact. Now we are trying to get out of miseries, is it not? The civic activities means to get out of miseries. Is it not?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes, enjoy.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Satsvarūpa: Prabhupāda, there was a French philosopher, Voltaire. He said you should not simply criticize negatively, because this is the best of all the possible worlds there is. This is all we have. So they would criticize that our hope in the spiritual world is utopian. Better turn to cultivate the material world as best you can.

Prabhupāda: No, material world we can see that it is useless. Everyone sees. That I am giving, this example. Before, the Romans, they constructed this big, big building. Now what is the value of that? It has no value. Simply it is kept as sentiment, relics. That's all. So this will be also the same thing. So where is the utility? Spiritual, apart from spiritual, what is the value of your material activity? It is practical. Everyone can see. If one comes to Rome, they can see that these big, big buildings, they were very nice building at that time, very wonderful building, but what is the value of it now? Anyone can see. Any sane man can see. So why should we waste our energy in that way? If there is any valuable work, let us see. That is intelligence. To make another heaps of relics, is that very good sense? Nobody will go there even to urine or pass stool.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: That's all. And then they become impotent and go to the doctor, "Give me sex medicine." You see? Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). The same thing. Not at home sex, but "Let us go to the prostitute, go to the naked dance." They have no other ideas. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). These class of men cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. First of all, one must be in knowledge that "I am not anything of this material world. I am spirit soul. My happiness is in the spiritual world." Then he can be.

Haihaya: Some people say that what make us different from the animals is that we can enjoy art and we can enjoy music and we can enjoy all type of art...

Prabhupāda: The animals... the snake also can enjoy music. Do you know that? You play very nice music. A snake will be charmed. He will stand. It will not attack you. Similarly the deers... The hunters, they play very nice music, and they assemble here, and they fight and kill them.

Nitāi: The birds are also making their music.

Prabhupāda: No. That is another thing. But these deer and the snakes, many animals, they are very much fond of music. They enjoy.

Morning Walk -- June 3, 1974, Geneva:

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Look up in the sky here and you can see all the different planets and stars. Can you also look up into the sky, the brahma-jyotir, and see all the different Vaikuṇṭha planets?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. The space is three-fourths there. Here the space is one fourth. In one-fourth space there are unlimited number of universes, ananta-koṭi. This material world is situated in a one-fourth space, and three-fourths space, in the spiritual world. Just imagine how big it is. There the Vaikuṇṭha planets, each planet is as big as the universe, so big. There are aeroplanes also. It is described in the Second Canto of Bhāgavatam.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: When one looks up towards Goloka Vṛndāvana. Just as the... There's a description in Brahma-saṁhitā of Goloka Vṛndāvana with the lotus petals, corolla of lotus petals.

Prabhupāda: No. Lotus... These Vaikuṇṭhas are like lotus petals, and the Kṛṣṇaloka is the middle portion, whorl of the lotus. This way? (some talking in background, French) (break)

Prabhupāda: So their body and your body has nothing to do individually. Harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). (break) ...living entities. As soon as there is opportunity, they are coming up. (break) ...as have got experience within this planet there is water. And the watermelons, they grow very nicely in the desert. And you see, within the watermelon, there is water. So wherefrom this water is coming? Hm? Wherefrom the water is coming.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: "This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, all-pervading, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same."

Prabhupāda: Yes. So any material thing is chedya, you can cut. Any material thing. The five kinds of material things, earth, water, air, you can cut it into divisions. Or it can be burned. It can be evaporated. Or it can be moistened. These things are material things. But the spiritual means just opposite. It cannot be cut. It cannot be dried up. It cannot be moistened. It..., so many things. And that is... We mean anti-matter. Just opposite. Which is possible in the physical world, but is not possible in the spiritual world. That we say anti-matter. But your anti-matter is another matter.

Robert Gouiran: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Another matter.

Robert Gouiran: Another state of matter.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversations -- September 10, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. The whole world is envious, whole world. I am envious of you, you are envious of me. That Bhāgavata is not meant for such envious persons. Paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2), those who are no more envious. How they will have a devotee envious? He loves Kṛṣṇa and in relationship with Kṛṣṇa loves everyone. In that position, in that state, one will not try to suppress another. Otherwise, it is material life. To live at the cost of others, to suppress one, to take other's money and become rich. There is story in the Aesop's Fable that—you perhaps know it—that a dog took the flesh in his mouth and was crossing a river, and the shadow was in the water. So he thought there is another dog with the flesh, so he wanted to..., he lost this, and that was a shadow. So he has got a flesh in his mouth, but he is an animal, it was deluded that "Another dog is carrying, so I shall take." So even in the cats and dogs, this tendency is there. Even the cats and dogs, they are also. So how can you stop it? That will be not stopped. They do not know. Therefore, these theories, they are simply theories; they are not practical. They do not know what is the nature, how nature is working.

daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

(BG 7.14)

This material nature can be avoided only by one who is Kṛṣṇa conscious. Otherwise, it is not possible. That example is given by Rāmānanda Rāya. He is touching naked woman, washing, dressing, touching, because he is not in the material world. That is the example given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. In the material world, as soon as you think of woman, you will be (indistinct). In the spiritual world, you can touch even a naked, beautiful, young woman but you will be (indistinct). That is the difference. Hṛd-rogaḥ kāmam.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Yes, matter is also energy of God.

Dr. Wolf: But which of the three types of energy does matter come from?

Prabhupāda: Matter, material.

Dr. Wolf: The material energy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In the material world there is question of matter and spirit. In the spiritual world simply everything is spiritual.

Dr. Wolf: Can we assume that energy itself, all three types of energy, are related to life?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Wolf: They emanate from life.

Prabhupāda: From Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ. Find out this verse. Ahaṁ sarvasya. Sarvasya means both matter and spirit. (Prabhupāda gets up and begins to leave room)

Rūpānuga: We had some... Can we get you something, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Do you want something?

Prabhupāda: No, I am going for...

ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante māṁ

budhā bhāva-samanvitaḥ

(BG 10.8)

(Leaves room)

Rūpānuga: Now we have some questions we have to ask Śrīla Prabhupāda. Because we're writing a book, we have some specific questions. We have to have time to get these questions in. Did you write them down, Svarūpa Dāmodara Prabhu? (some discussion amongst men in room) (break)

Satsvarūpa: "The wise who know this perfectly engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts."

Prabhupāda: That's it. He has found out the original source. There is no conference needed.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Yes, you will remain here as insect.

Mādhava: No, if I desire a plate of prasādam to appear here...

Prabhupāda: Then you will go to Vaikuṇṭha. (laughter)

Mādhava: How do I do it by just desiring? How is it done?

Prabhupāda: By desire you are creating everything. Why these material varieties? You desire. In the spiritual world also, varieties. You desire. You want to serve Kṛṣṇa as His friend, you want to serve Kṛṣṇa as His lover, you want to serve Kṛṣṇa as His father, as His servant, or you want to serve Kṛṣṇa by supplying fruits and flowers, or river Yamunā. Everything, whatever you like, Kṛṣṇa will give you opportunity, in this material and the spiritual world.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: After complete annihilation and then, when the creation starts again...

Prabhupāda: There is no question of annihilation.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I mean the material universe.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is manifest, not manifest. Not annihilation. The energy is there. Just like sometimes I become angry, and sometime I am peaceful. But that means anger is annihilated. Anger is there. It may be manifest at any time. There is no question of annihilation. You say like that because actually it is vyakta, avyakta: manifest and nonmanifest.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: God is Absolute. His name and His person, not different, because He is Absolute. Here in the material world the name is not the substance. If I want water... I am thirsty, and if I chant "Water, water, water, water," that will not help me. But in the spiritual world, God being Absolute, you chant God's name, you see God's form, you discuss about God's activities, they are all the same.

Reporter: So how, if when we chant "Water, water, water," we don't...

Prabhupāda: That is material word. If you chant "Water, water," the real water will not come. But if you chant "Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa," then because it is absolute, then you are associating with Kṛṣṇa.

Reporter: Then we've, we come into the spiritual world.

Prabhupāda: Yes, immediately. Because Kṛṣṇa is on your tongue.

Reporter: But how do we feel that?

Prabhupāda: You will feel. Go on chanting. Just like if you drink water, then you will feel that "My thirsty... thirstiness is gone."

Room Conversation with Ganesa dasa's Mother and Sister -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Mother: Evil.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is evil. You don't try to carry out the orders of God, this is evil.

Mother: But what I'm trying to say is there's more evil in the world than goodness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless there is evil, why you are in this material world? You have accepted evil. Therefore you are in this material world. And if you accept God, the good, then you are in the spiritual world. You don't accept God; you want evil. Therefore you are in the material world. Just like in the jail, prison house, who are they? They are all criminals. Similarly, every one of us who are within this material world, they are all criminals because they have disobeyed the order of God. In different status only, but they are all criminals. Because every one of them is subjected to the rules of nature: birth, death, old age, and disease. So your child is very intelligent. He has taken to this. Now you can do also the same thing, both mother and daughter.

Mother: And his wife.

Gaṇeśa: My wife.

Prabhupāda: Where is your wife?

Gaṇeśa: Melbourne. Śubhalakṣmī-devī.

Prabhupāda: Oh, she is also nice.

Morning Walk -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Madhudviṣa Mahārāja, here is a property for sale.

Madhudviṣa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Nice property. (break) ...only due to difference of time it appears different. (break) ...Vedic instruction. In the spiritual world or the material world the varieties are the same, but the spiritual world is light, and the material world is darkness. Same varieties, there also you will find the same man, woman, or their dealings, love, or gardens, everything you will... Like this, this is only imitation. So if you want to be happy, go there. Tamaso mā. This is the Vedic instruction. Don't remain in this dark region. Jyotir gama. Jyoti means light. Go there. That is the prerogative of the human form of life. Tamaso mā jyotir gama. (break)

Madhudviṣa: They take great trouble to bring trees from all over the different parts of the world to put in the botanical gardens.

Prabhupāda: Very nice gardens. Hardly there is such nice botanical gardens in the world. I have seen many botanical... Very nice. (break) This swan is black and the crow is black, but crow's place is different, their place is different, although they are birds. The crows will enjoy a filthy place where all refuses are thrown. I don't think in your country there is many crows. In India, you've seen, all nasty place, that is visited by the crows. It is stated in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo jagat-pavitraṁ pragṛṇīta karhicit, tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham (SB 1.5.10). The literature which does not describe Kṛṣṇa, that is the place for the crows. There is sex literature, they're enjoyed by the crows, and this Bhāgavatam is enjoyed by the swans. That is the difference. Crow's literature and swan's literature, paramahaṁsa. Paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ vāstavaṁ vastu vedyam atra (SB 1.1.2). Everyone in this material world, they're envious. Their business is to become envious. I am envious of you, you are envious of me. This is material world. And the paramahaṁsas, Vaiṣṇava, they're kind, they're merciful. "Ah, this fallen soul is suffering for want of Kṛṣṇa. Let us preach." That is the difference. The envious and the nonenvious. That is paramahaṁsa. Titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ (SB 3.25.21). They are not only not envious, but they're merciful. They'll suffer so many troubles for their preaching work, still they'll do that. Titikṣava. A preacher has to suffer so many inconvenience. You had to suffer in here?

Madhudviṣa: Where?

Prabhupāda: In Australia.

Morning Walk -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Second or first only.

Devotee 9: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what are you saying? You said before there's no necessary for a spiritual master and now you...

Devotee 1: He said in the spiritual world there is no necessity.

Devotee 9: Oh, in the spiritual world.

Devotee 1: Everyone is in full knowledge. In the material world everyone is in darkness.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda! Hari bol! Hari bol! (break)

Devotee 1: Śrīla Prabhupāda, it appears that there is a group of persons here in Australia who think, judging from the different questions that are being asked, they are thinking that it is not required to formally accept...

Prabhupāda: There are so many rascal swamis come. They say like that, "There is no need of guru."

Devotee 1: Yeah, right. They think that Kṛṣṇa is in the heart and you can accept initiation by that way.

Prabhupāda: You do not know where to find out Kṛṣṇa in the heart. (end)

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: This is the test. So long we have got taste for this material enjoyment, that means we are not advanced. Therefore the Vedic civilization is, voluntarily they give up this household life and become a sannyāsī, where there is no need of sex life. Then, after sannyāsa life, he becomes paramahaṁsa. That is Vedic civilization.

Dr. Gerson: I've noticed changes just in the few months that I've been among the devotees, in myself, and they've been in that direction, and it's a very nice feeling to be able to feel, at least in small part, into the spiritual world.

Prabhupāda: The Vedic civilization, therefore, teaches the student, brahmacārī, how to remain without sex life. Those who are unable to continue that, they are allowed, "All right, be married life." And that is also for twenty-five years. A student remains brahmacārī up to twenty-five years, and if we wants to take this sex license-household life means sex life—so he can get the license for twenty-five years more. So at the age of fifty years, fiftieth year, he gives up voluntarily. He keeps his wife with him just to assist him to advance in spiritual life, and they go from one holy place to another. And then when they are practiced, then the woman is sent to his elderly sons to take care and the man takes sannyāsa. This is Vedic civilization, varṇāśrama, four varṇas and four āśramas: the brāhmaṇas, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra... And the sannyāsa is especially meant for the brāhmaṇas, not the kṣatriyas or the vaiśyas because they are not very much advanced. But the brāhmaṇa is advanced from the very beginning. Therefore sannyāsa is for the brāhmaṇa. The system that without being a brāhmaṇa nobody can take sannyāsa. So I am criticized by others in India that I am giving sannyāsa to them. Of course, according to the principle, they are not fit for sannyāsa, but because Caitanya Mahāprabhu also took sannyāsa at the age of twenty-four years... Śaṅkarācārya took sannyāsa at the age of eight years. He lived only for thirty-two years, Caitanya Mahāprabhu lived for forty-eight years. So for ordinary man, sannyāsa is difficult. But for preaching work, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's footprints we are trying to follow.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, there are... Majority, 90%, they are always good. They never fall down.

Dr. John Mize: So we're among the 10%.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Or less than that. In the material, whole material world all the living entities they are... Just like in the prison house, there are some population, but they are not majority. The majority of the population, they are outside the prison house. Similarly, majority of living being, part and parcel of God, they are in the spiritual world. Only a few falls down.

Dr. John Mize: Does Kṛṣṇa know ahead of time that a soul is going to be foolish and fall?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa? Yes, Kṛṣṇa may know because He is omniscient.

Dr. John Mize: Are more souls falling all the time?

Prabhupāda: Not all the time. But there is the tendency of fall down, not for all, but because there is independence... Everyone is not liking to misuse the independence. The same example: Just like a government constructing a city and constructs also prison house because the government knows that somebody will be criminal. So their shelter must be also constructed. It is very easy to understand. Not that cent percent population will be criminal, but government knows that some of them will be. Otherwise why they construct prison house also? One may say, "Where is the criminal? You are constructing..." Government knows, there will be criminal. So if the ordinary government can know, why God cannot know? Because there is tendency.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Revatīnandana:

mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ

jagad avyakta-mūrtinā

mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni

na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ

(BG 9.4)

Translation: By Me, in My unmanifested form, this entire universe is pervaded. All beings are in Me, but I am not in them.

Purport: The Supreme Personality of Godhead is not perceivable through the gross material senses. It is said that Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa's name, fame, pastimes, etc., cannot be understood by material senses. Only to one who is engaged in pure devotional service under proper guidance is He revealed. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is stated, premāñjanacchurita.... One can see the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Govinda, always within himself and outside himself if he has developed the transcendental loving attitude towards Him. Thus for people in general He is not visible. Here it is said that although He is all-pervading, everywhere present, He is yet not conceivable by the material senses. But actually, although we cannot see Him, everything is resting in Him. As we have discussed in the Seventh Chapter, the entire material cosmic manifestation is only a combination of His two different energies, the superior spiritual energy and the inferior material energy. Just as the sunshine is spread all over the universe, the energy of the Lord is spread all over the creation, and everything is resting in that energy.

Yet one should not conclude that because He is spread all over He has lost His personal existence. To refute such argument the Lord says, "I am everywhere, and everything is in Me, but still I am aloof." For example, a king heads a government which is but the manifestation of the king's energy; the different governmental departments are nothing but the energies of the king, and each department is resting on the king's power. But still one cannot expect the king to be present in every department personally. That is a crude example. Similarly, all the manifestations that we see, and everything that exists both in this material world and in the spiritual world, are resting on the energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The creation takes place by the diffusion of His different energies, and, as is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, He is everywhere present by His personal representation, the diffusion of His different energies.

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Just wait. I am coming. (break) Kṛṣṇa says that "I am present everywhere by My energy. But personally I may not be here, in here." But ultimately there is no difference between Kṛṣṇa's energy and Kṛṣṇa. Wherever there is energy... Just like electricity. Everywhere there is. If you are expert you can generate electricity from anywhere.

Morning Walk -- July 3, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: Therefore take them as rascal. Everything is changing.

Brahmānanda: You brain is the same as it was when you were an infant?

Kuruśreṣṭha: They say that there's new information coming in, but the brain cells don't die.

Devotee (2): The memory, the memory is staying the same.

Devotee (3): (break) You had said on a... earlier on a morning walk, on a tape, that if one enters into the spiritual world that—you were asked that he will never have to return—and you said that if it's a desire, he can return to the material world.

Prabhupāda: So what is your objection?

Devotee (3): I was just wondering if the spirit soul being in the spiritual world is eternally liberated, how can he return. By desire?

Prabhupāda: Yes. If he desires, he can come again. That option is always there. Just like I remain in India. I come here. And if I like, I may not come. It is my option.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prof. Hopkins: Would it be bad for them or would they simply not learn from it.

Prabhupāda: No, as I told you the... Our only business is to know the Absolute Truth. If you do not try for this then you remain animals. Animal cannot know the Absolute Truth. So to remain animal means varieties of life. Sometimes cat, sometimes dog, sometimes demigod, sometimes this, sometimes that, sometimes American, sometimes something else. This will go on. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). In this life we are living, we are making the next body. So if we work nicely then next body may be the higher planetary system or above this material world, in the spiritual world.

Prof. Hopkins: And the way to progress then is to take, to study, to learn these things in order, in the proper order.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prof. Hopkins: I remember when I first, when I first met Brahmānanda in New York. I came there initially in part to, because I had been studying Bhāgavatam and I wanted to talk to people in the temple about Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And they said, "What is this?" (laughs) "We've heard Swamiji speak of this but we don't know it." A few years later you were all sitting around reciting verses from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Was this... You did not begin to teach Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam when you first came to the U.S.

Prabhupāda: No, I taught Bhagavad-gītā first of all, then Bhāgavata.

Prof. Hopkins: So you prepared, you prepared them with...

Prabhupāda: Oh yes.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Māyāvādī philosophy is defective. They say if everything is God then where is the Lord's separate existence. That is their defect. That is materialist theory. If you take a big paper and make it into small pieces and throw it away, then the big paper is lost. (laughs) The Māyāvādī thinks like that, that if everything is Brahman, Brahman is distributed, then where is..., why you call the Supreme Lord? They think that Brahman being distributed, He is finished. This is Māyāvādī. He does not know the potency of God. And that is stated in Upaniṣad. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam.

pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇam adaḥ

pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate

pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya

pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate

(Iso Invocation)

In the material sense one minus one is equal to zero. In the spiritual world pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya. The one is pūrṇa and if you take the whole one it is still one. That they cannot understand, the poor brain. They think materially. If the one is complete and if one is taken away then it becomes zero. What kind of God is only zero? But Upaniṣad says pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate. If from the complete you take the complete, it still it is complete. That they cannot understand. That is God. We say why complete is complete always? Why complete may be zero? No.

Prof. Hopkins: So God can create everything out of Himself.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- July 17, 1975, San Francisco:

Devotee: But He also says in Gītā that He works too.

Prabhupāda: Just to teach these rascals to work. Because here, without working, you cannot get your food. Therefore laziness condemned here in this material world. And in the spiritual world the Supreme Person is the most lazy person. (laughter)

Bahulāśva: Just like yesterday you told the reporters. When they asked why such a big cart, so you told them that God should have a big car.

Prabhupāda: And where is this car? When God assumes the universal form, where is the car? You have no such car. So this car is the smallest car of all. He has got... When He showed His Viśva-rūpa to Arjuna, so for that Viśva-rūpa where is the car? You cannot do.

Morning Walk -- July 17, 1975, San Francisco:

Jayatīrtha: If the original Kṛṣṇa is always in Vṛndāvana, then why do the gopīs and Rādhārāṇī feel separation from Him?

Prabhupāda: That is here, in this material world. In the spiritual world Kṛṣṇa does not leave.

Jayatīrtha: Oh.

Prabhupāda: And even in the material world, Kṛṣṇa superficially has gone to Mathurā, but He has captured the heart of the gopīs. So He is not leaving. Gopīs are enjoying Kṛṣṇa by separation. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's feeling, how He is appreciating Kṛṣṇa by separation.

Bahulāśva: Out here on the campus, Śrīla Prabhupāda, different people come with little carts and they sell food things.

Prabhupāda: Food?

Bahulāśva: Food. They get a permit. We were thinking to have a little car and sell Bengali sweets.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bengali sweet selling is not our business. We should not waste in that way. Our business is how to make him Kṛṣṇa conscious. If we find such opportunity by selling Bengali sweets, then we can sell. Otherwise it is useless. You should always remember this. We are not for selling Bengali sweets or any such thing unless it is connected with preaching our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You should remember it.

Morning Walk -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, if every moment we are killing in breathing and walking and doing so many things, and then it says, "Thou shalt not kill," so then hasn't God given us an instruction which is impossible?

Prabhupāda: No. Conscientiously you should not. But unconsciously, if you do, that is excused. (break) ...na punar baddhyate(?). Āhlādinī-śakti, it is pleasure potency. So pleasure potency is not painful to Kṛṣṇa. But it is painful. It is painful to us, conditioned souls. This Golden Moon (name of a bar?), everyone comes there for pleasure, but he is becoming implicated in sinful activities. Therefore it is not pleasure. It will give him pain, so many aftereffects. Sex life, even it is not illicit, still, it is painful, aftereffects. You'll have to take care of the children. You have to bear children. That is painful. You have to pay to the hospital for delivery, then education, then doctor's bill—so many painful. So this pleasure, sex pleasure, is followed by so many painful things. Tāpa-karī. The same pleasure potency is there in the living being in little quantity, and as soon as they utilize it, it becomes painful. And the same pleasure potency in the spiritual world, Kṛṣṇa's dancing with gopīs, that is not painful. That is pleasing. (break) ...man, if he takes nice foodstuff it is painful. If a diseased man, if he takes...

Cyavana: He becomes more sick.

Prabhupāda: More sick. Therefore this life is meant for tapasya, not to accept-voluntarily reject. Then it is nice.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: They understand this is good.

Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, I understand Kṛṣṇa is the Personality of Godhead, and He is the one who create this material world. So my impression is Kṛṣṇa, He didn't make this material world to be spiritual?

Prabhupāda: It is spiritual as soon as you become a devotee, spiritual. We are living in the spiritual world. That I explained last night. So ultimately there is nothing material. Material means when you forget Kṛṣṇa. That is material.

Devotee (1): My question, Prabhupāda, was...

Prabhupāda: There is no material. When you forget Kṛṣṇa, that is material. Just like madness. Madness is not our natural position, but when your brain is deranged, then it is madness. Madness has no separate existence, but when our brain is not in order, there is madness. Similarly, there is nothing material, because everything has come from Kṛṣṇa. The original source is Kṛṣṇa. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). So the material world, the so-called material world, has come from Kṛṣṇa. So if it has come from Kṛṣṇa how it is material? The cause and effect is the same, maybe differently manifested. Just like cotton, cotton made into thread, the shape has changed, but it is cotton. And from the cotton thread, you make cloth. The cloth is cotton. But if I say, "Cotton. Bring cotton," then you'll bring cotton, not this cloth. But the cloth is also cotton. Now understand? Cloth is nothing but cotton. But when I say "Bring cotton," you'll not bring a cloth. You'll bring cotton.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Then... That is the distinction between you and the stone. Otherwise you would have remained as stone. Because you are moving, therefore He has given you the independence.

Guru-kṛpā: There is also a question in that same line. They say that in the spiritual world we say that everything is peaceful, there is no birth and death, there is no material conditions, so if the conditions in the spiritual world are so nice and everything is spiritually, everything is spiritual, how is it that one can become envious of Kṛṣṇa in such conditions? This is a very...

Acyutānanda: The original sin.

Sudāmā: Why we are envious,

Guru-kṛpā: How is it that, if everything is free from envy, free from bad material elements...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guru-kṛpā: How is it that...

Prabhupāda: That is independence. That is independence. In spite of all these things, because you have got little independence, you can violate.

Sudāmā: It is very hard thing to understand.

Prabhupāda: No, it is not difficult. It is not difficult.

Morning Walk -- March 14, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: But this is the duty of everyone. One should not.... That is enjoined in the.... Gurur na sa syāt: "One should not become a guru if he cannot do that." Otherwise he is cheating. Why he should become guru? Why he should accept service from so many people if he cannot rightly direct them? Then he becomes bound up by the karma laws. If I take one paisa from you without any service, I have to pay you four paisa.

Mahāṁśa: In the spiritual world the living entity is full of knowledge, so does he...

Prabhupāda: That is enjoined, ordered, "You should not become guru if you cannot save him. You should not become father if you cannot save him." This is sastric injunction. First word is gurur na sa syāt pitā na sa syāt (SB 5.5.18). Why you are claiming? Just like.... We are not going to become guru like that.... What is that rascal? Yogi...?

Gurukṛpā: Guru Mahārāja.

Revatīnandana: Which one? There's many rascals.

Prabhupāda: That big rascal, transcendental meditation.

Morning Walk -- March 26, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: In the material world the poor man thinks, "Oh, this gentleman has got such big, big house. If I could have one." Eh? And the spiritual world, without desiring there are so many big, big house we have got.

Guru dāsa: Everyone can ride in the airplane in the spiritual world because everything is a pleasure trip for Kṛṣṇa. You've written in a purport in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that in the Vaikuṇṭha planets everyone can ride in the airplanes.

Prabhupāda: Yes, there is. (break) They say that when they're combined, there will be life, but the way of analysis we suggest is not complete?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The fact remains that even if they have a completely combined body, say a dead body, they still can't bring life back to it.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Even if there is a body that's already combined-say someone has just died—they still can't bring life back.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So we shall go this way or that way? Eh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This way, Śrīla Prabhupāda, into the temple room.

Prabhupāda: (break—room) So what is the news? Your wife and son?

Dhanañjaya: They are in Vṛndāvana, Śrīla Prabhupāda. The mukuṭa business is doing very well.

Prabhupāda: Producing nice mukuṭa?

Dhanañjaya: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So you return me my money. I gave twenty thousand? Hm?

Dhanañjaya: That will be returned. (end)

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee (1): Is a devotee always in some anxiety to see others unhappy?

Prabhupāda: Yes. How to deliver them? This is Kṛṣṇa anxiety. This kind of anxiety is welcome.

Devotee (1): Yes. Is that also in the spiritual world like this?

Prabhupāda: Yes. In spiritual world there is everything, but only central point is Kṛṣṇa. Here anxiety is "Where I shall get money? Where I shall get woman?" And there is anxiety, "How shall I get Kṛṣṇa?" The anxiety is there. That is the difference.

Devotee (1): But do they have anxiety...

Prabhupāda: Here all people are anxious how to get money and how to get woman, that's all. And there the anxiety is how to get Kṛṣṇa. The anxiety is there, but quality is different.

Devotee (1): If we're in anxiety that we cannot perform devotional service nicely, that is all right?

Prabhupāda: That is devotional side. Kṛṣṇa anxiety itself is the first-class devotional service. If one becomes anxious like that, then he is perfect. Janma-koṭi-sukṛtair na labhyate. After many, many millions of life of pious activities one can get such anxiety. This is not so easy, to become anxious for Kṛṣṇa. You don't think it is like ordinary activity (anxiety?). Koṭi-sukṛtaiḥ. If one becomes full of anxiety for Kṛṣṇa, that is the highest stage of perfection.

Morning Walk -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Yadubara: So that subtle reality is existing side by side with this gross reality.

Prabhupāda: Reality is in the spiritual world. This is imitation reality. Real reality is in the spiritual world.

Hari-śauri: We have to go left here, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (pause) The material universes are like a produce of Mahā-Viṣṇu.

Prabhupāda: A big dream, that's all. Material existence means a big dream. How long you'll dream? So long you are in this body. And as long as the body is finished, your dream is finished. Your nation, your society, your friends, your money, your bank, everything finished. Is it not a dream? Then dream another—you become cats and dogs or demigods. You dream in a different way. You are now dreaming as American; next life you may dream something else.

Bharadvāja: So every man has his own world that he's living in?

Prabhupāda: Eh? He creates his own world. Nothing is own—temporary—he creates, and Kṛṣṇa gives him the opportunity, "All right, you enjoy." Hare nāma, hare nāma.

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Fasting and feasting is the same?

Rāmeśvara: That what I, they told me.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, for Kṛṣṇa. For Kṛṣṇa, you fast or feast, the same thing. Better fast. (laughter)

Rāmeśvara: (break) ...by the devotees, is that in the spiritual world every day is feasting.

Prabhupāda: And there is no fasting. Fasting is recommended when a man is diseased. When he's in health, there is feasting. So spiritual world means health. Why there should be fasting?

Hari-śauri: And our disease is uncontrolled senses.

Prabhupāda: There is no sense agitation.

Hari-śauri: No, for us though, conditioned.

Prabhupāda: Yes, conditioned. Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvam.

Rāmeśvara: (break) In Caitanya-caritāmṛta you wrote that the kalpa-vṛkṣa trees, they move, they are not stationary.

Prabhupāda: They are spiritual.

Rāmeśvara: Is this true for the plants and flowers?

Prabhupāda: Everything. Everything. They are spiritual, absolute. There is no condition. Because it is tree, it cannot move. That is condition.

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: No condition. In the spiritual world, can trees and plants communicate? Here they have no means of communication, no talking.

Prabhupāda: Everything is possible.

Rāmeśvara: The animals can also understand and communicate.

Prabhupāda: You can milk the cows as many times as you like, and as much as you like.

Rāmeśvara: And talk with them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no limit. That is spiritual world.

Hari-śauri: One thing that has always confused a lot of devotees is how is it possible to eat something in the spiritual world when that, the thing that you're eating is also spiritual?

Prabhupāda: There is no need of eating, but if they like, they can eat, enjoy.

Rāmeśvara: The taste, the flavor.

Devotee: But what happens to the thing that they're eating?

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Then you will see when you go there.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ignorance means completely lost of all independence. That is ignorance. Complete loss of, even little intelligence, all lost. In the modes of passion, there is little independence, and in the modes of goodness, he has got full independence whether to remain in the struggle for existence or go back to home, back to Godhead. Brahma jānāti iti brāhmaṇaḥ. That is real knowledge platform.

Hṛdayānanda: (reading:) "This material covering perishes, but his spiritual body manifests in its individual capacity. The following information is there in the Mādhyandināyana-śruti: sa vā eṣa brahma-niṣṭhā idaṁ śarīraṁ martyam atisṛjya brahmābhisampadya brahmaṇā paśyati brahmaṇā śṛṇoti brahmaṇaivedaṁ sarvam anubhavati. It is stated here that when a living entity gives up this material embodiment and enters into the spiritual world, he revives his spiritual body, and in his spiritual body he can see the Supreme Personality of Godhead face to face. He can hear and speak to Him face to face, and he can understand the Supreme Personality as He is. In smṛti also it is understood that in the spiritual planets everyone lives in bodies featured like the Supreme Personality of Godhead's body. As far as bodily construction is concerned, there is no difference between the part-and-parcel living entities and the expansions of Viṣṇumūrti. In other words, at liberation the living entity gets a spiritual body by the grace of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The word mamaivāṁśaḥ, 'fragmental parts and parcels of the Supreme Lord,' is also very significant. The fragmental portion of the Supreme Lord is not like some material broken part. We have already understood in the Second Chapter that the spirit cannot be cut into pieces. This fragment is not materially conceived. It is not like matter which can be cut into pieces and joined together again. That conception is not applicable here because the Sanskrit word sanātana, 'eternal,' is used. The fragmental portion is eternal. It is also stated in the beginning of the Second Chapter that dehino 'smin yathā—in each and every individual body, the fragmental portion of the Supreme Lord is present. That fragmental portion, when liberated from the bodily entanglement, revives its original spiritual body in the spiritual sky in a spiritual planet and enjoys association with the Supreme Lord. It is, however, understood here that the living entity, being the fragmental part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, is qualitatively one, just as the parts and parcels of gold are also gold."

Prabhupāda: Sometimes the atheists, they say there is no soul-intuition. So we do not accept this proposal. The soul, when he is in particular situation, he remembers immediately what he has to do. Just like the small puppies, they have not even opened the eyes, but still, immediately after birth they're searching after food and goes immediately to the nipples of the mother. So how he goes there? They say it is intuition, but it is not intuition. The soul, being put into that body, immediately remembers all the activities of the body. Just like in Los Angeles. When I am in tour in other places I forget about Los Angeles, but as soon as I come here, I know where is my bedroom, where is my sitting room, where is my garden, immediately. I haven't got to be taught that "Here is your sitting room, here is your sleeping room." Immediately, I remember. Similarly, this living entity is transmigrating from time immemorial in different types of body. So as soon as he comes to a particular type of body he remembers the activities immediately. They are interpreting as intuition—that is not intuition. It is old remembrance. This is the explanation.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: But then there is an argument, if we were originally in the spiritual world, why don't we remember that and try to go back to the spiritual world?

Prabhupāda: That I have already said, that when I am in tour in Europe and India, I completely forget about Los Angeles. I act according to the circumstances there. And again when I come to Los Angeles, I immediately remember. This is natural. Out of sight, out of mind.

Bharadvāja: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we don't have to learn the activities of our spiritual body?

Prabhupāda: Yes, when you are revived. Therefore the Vedic injunction is that now you have got this human form of body, you get up to your original position. Uttiṣṭhata jāgrata prāpta varan nibodhata. This is the Vedic injunction. Jīva jāgo jīva jāgo, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says. Jīva jāgo jīva jāgo gauracanda bole kota nidrā jāo māyā-piśācīra kole. How long you'll sleep? Here is the opportunity. Try to understand yourself. That is self-realization. And go back to home, back to Godhead. Why you are struggling here? Kṛṣṇa is coming. He is also saying the same, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Why you are rotting in this material world? So for spiritual awakening there are so many attempts by God Himself, by His devotees, by books, so many ways. But we are not inclined. That is our fault.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The spiritual body is identical with the soul. Here in the material world there is duality, inferior and superior. In the spiritual world everything is of a superior nature. There is no duality. There's no material.

Prabhupāda: Petrol smelling everywhere.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's from these automobiles, the exhaust. They say that in some cities like New York, just living in the city itself, it is like smoking two packs of cigarettes every day because of so much pollution in the air, so contaminated. (break)...in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that the cure for madness is open space and fresh air. That's Ayurvedic method. So in the cities there's all kinds of confined spaces, the air is not all clean. There's so much madness. (break)

Prabhupāda: (in car) Scientists are changing their theories, how we can accept? Reasonably? You are changing your theories, how we can accept you are scientist? You are not sure of your position. Philosophers also, they say "I believe." What is the meaning of this philosophy?

Hari-śauri: They simply give their own opinion about something and present that as being fact, and everyone else has their own.

Prabhupāda: I have got my own opinion. Or anyone can have his own opinion. Why your opinion should be accepted? I have got.... (break) ...is that one does not understand that he is imperfect. Or he knows that he is imperfect, still, he wants to push forward his opinion. That is the difficulty. He knows he's imperfect. But he does not think that "I am imperfect. What is the value of my opinion?"

Morning Walk -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That means there are so many conditioned souls, one after another, coming. And the conditioned souls are the few of the whole living entities. Just imagine what is the total! (laughs)

Rāmeśvara: It can't be imagined.

Prabhupāda: And majority in the spiritual world, and one fourth, minority, is here in so many innumerable universes.

Rāmeśvara: There are also many spirit souls in the Brahman effulgence, the spiritual sky.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Rāmeśvara: The spiritual sky.

Prabhupāda: Full of these souls. They have no forms. Just like sun. Sunshine means small illuminating sparks. (break) (out of car:) Flowers, they are good medicine for dysentery. (break)

Hṛdayānanda: ...surrounded by mountains, but normally the air is so dirty, it's not possible to see them, but today it's so clear.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...bluff subject.

Rāmeśvara: The edge of the cliff, there may be some rockslide.

Hari-śauri: Just like the path used to go there, but it fell through.

Prabhupāda: Path may slide? That is a warning?

Hari-śauri: They put that warning there so that no one can sue the city authorities if someone is killed if the cliff falls apart.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: This is not wanted. He is spirit. He has nothing to do with this material world, but he wanted it. Or the real thing is that he wanted to enjoy by becoming the master. He is servant... Sometimes servants desire it that "Why I become servant? Why not master?" That is natural. But the natural position is he is servant. If he remains servant of Kṛṣṇa, then he's happy always. But because he desired to become master, so he cannot become master in the spiritual world, because in the spiritual world the master is one. So he is given the chance, "All right, go to the material world and become a master." But that is a falldown. So he's trying struggle for existence, and everyone is trying to become master. Even one is in this spiritual knowledge that "I am spirit soul," still he's trying to become master. That is Māyāvāda. They have understood that "I am not this body, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, but I am the supreme Brahman." The same disease is there—master. Therefore they are condemned, arūhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam tataḥ (SB 10.2.32). Because the mentality to remain master is continuing, even they are in the Brahman, merge into the Brahman, the mastership mentality is there; therefore he falls down again. Because mastership exhibition can be done in this material world. So many Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, they give up, "This world is false," and they merge, so-called merge, but the mastership mentality is there. But in the void, simply spiritual light, he cannot do any mastership; therefore again falls down in this false world, and he wants to be by becoming a leader of hospital, and school, college, a Christian missionary. And our Vivekananda also imitated that. So this, this is the material disease. He is actually servant, but he wants to become master. That is the defect.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So he has said already that "I do not find any other means to pacify me, and You are the only..." The purport is that Arjuna is accepting Kṛṣṇa as guru to instruct him how to get relief from the perplexed position. So in this sense the real guru is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is guru. Not only for Arjuna, for everyone. So if we take instruction from Kṛṣṇa and abide by that order, instruction, then our life is successful. That is our mission. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means accept Kṛṣṇa as guru. We don't say... Don't divert your attention. We don't say that "I am Kṛṣṇa." We never say that. We simply ask people that "You abide by the order of Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), and we say that "You surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Give up all other ideas of so-called dharma or religiosity." The same thing. But we don't say that you or me, "I am the authority." No, we don't say that. We say, "Kṛṣṇa is the authority, and you try to understand Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Therefore the question is guru. So here, from the behavior of Arjuna, we see that guru is necessary. Arjuna was talking with Kṛṣṇa as friend, but Arjuna saw that "This is, there is no good talking like this. We can continue talking.... Because we are equal status. Kṛṣṇa is my friend. I am also His friend. So He's answering, I am giving something. If this talking will go on, there will be no fruit." Therefore he said, "Now, Kṛṣṇa, I am becoming Your disciple." Disciple means there is no argument. Whatever the guru will say, you have to accept. That is disciple. That is final. There is no argument. So Arjuna put him into that position that "I cease to talk with You on equal level of friends. Now I accept You as guru." Therefore the guru is necessary, undoubtedly, because every one of us in perplexed position. But who is guru? Guru means Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's representative. And all others are bogus. If one does not say on the standard of Kṛṣṇa, then he's not guru. He's a bogus. In that way everyone can become guru. I have got some opinion, I can say. But unless.... Just like a lawyer is he who follows the standard law. If a lawyer says that "I have manufactured my own laws," so who will hear him? And what will be the use of becoming lawyer? No. You have to follow the standard law. Then you are a lawyer. And a big lawyer means who knows the standard laws very well. Similarly, guru is Kṛṣṇa and guru is necessary. But one must surrender to Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's representative. Then he will be successful. So so far.... Now, one can say that Kṛṣṇa is not present. But Kṛṣṇa is not present, how you can say? Kṛṣṇa's instruction is there, Bhagavad-gītā. How you can say that.... Kṛṣṇa, absolute, means the Supreme Lord is not different from His words also. The words of Kṛṣṇa and the Kṛṣṇa, they are the same. That is Absolute Truth. In the relative world the words "water" and the substance water are different. If I am thirsty, if I simply chant "water, water, water," my thirst will not be satisfied. I require the real water. That is relative world. But in the spiritual world.... Just like we are chanting Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. If Kṛṣṇa is different from Hare Kṛṣṇa, then how we are satisfied chanting whole day and night? This is the proof. The ordinary thing, if you chant, "Mr. John, Mr. John," after chanting three times you'll cease. But this Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, if you go on chanting 24 hours, you'll never be tired. this is the spiritual Absolute Truth. That is practical.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Saṁskāra... The real aim is to bring the rascal to the platform of knowledge. That is called saṁskāra. Janmana jāyate śūdra. By birth everyone is the same, śūdras, means without any knowledge. But the saṁskāra means śūdra, rascal, without any knowledge of spiritual life, to gradually bring him to the spiritual platform. That is called saṁskāra. And saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. That is essential. The human life is the opportunity for understanding what he is and what is the aim of his life. The aim of life is back to home, back to Godhead. We are part and parcel of God. Somehow or other we are in this material existence. So aim is again come to our spiritual life, spiritual existence, where there is no struggle for existence, blissful, happy life. Because actually we want happiness, blissful life. That is not possible in the material world. That is in the spiritual world. That is the aim. So every human being should be given chance. That is real education. That is called saṁskāra. So these saṁskāra, there are dāsa-vidha-saṁskāraḥ... So in this age it is very difficult, but if one chants Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra without any offense, being trained up by the spiritual master, all the saṁskāras automatically become done and he comes to his original spiritual position, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I am spirit soul. The Kṛṣṇa is Param Brahman, and I am Brahman." As Arjuna said, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). Kṛṣṇa is also Brahman, I am also Brahman. But He's Supreme Brahman, I am minute Brahman. So my business is to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is teachings of Lord Caitanya, jīvera 'svarūpa' haya (sic:) nitya kṛṣṇa-dāsa (CC Madhya 20.108). So if he engages himself in his original spiritual business, to act as the servant of Kṛṣṇa, then all reformation is done.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How can you say, though, that the soul has a complex form?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Well, we get information that in the spiritual world the spiritual world is full of variegatedness. It is not just one variety. It is full of varieties. So we take that as proof of the complex nature of life.

Prabhupāda: We see that so long the life is there in the material body, he has got varieties of thoughts. That is the proof that life is full of varieties. As soon as the life is not there, no more varieties, only one variety, dead body, that's all, finished. And as long as the life is there, he has got so many ideas, so many arts, so many philosophies, so many... That is the proof that life is full of varieties. That is the proof. As soon as the life is off, there is no variety. So what do you want, more proof that life is full of variety.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Śrīla Prabhupāda, in this connection, this variegatedness in connection with life, can you take it as some sort of complex structures?

Prabhupāda: You can... Because we, at the present moment, we cannot understand, except physics and chemistry, we cannot understand life. So as we do not understand life, so therefore the definition by negation is there. It is not physical, not chemical. It is something beyond. But by practical experience we can see that when there is life, a living man wants varieties. That's a fact. Varieties. Otherwise, why we disagree? I have got some varieties, you have got some varieties. So the conclusion should be tested that living condition or life is full of varieties, therefore the kingdom of life, the spiritual kingdom, must be full of varieties. That is the conclusion.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Next point says, in the column of matter, it says it has temporary complex forms in association with life. On the other hand, life is immutable. From Bhagavad-gītā, it has neither beginning nor end. Now this is what actually we find when a living entity is in association with matter, now matter tends to the form, into definite specific forms. Like human body has a specific form, like that, other living entities have forms. But this is only due to in association with life.

Prabhupāda: Yes. As he desired, so he got a form. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). The form is offered by the Supreme Absolute Truth, as he desires. Just like the cloth has no form, but as the customer desires, the tailor gives a form suitable to his desire. Similarly, material world means we have got varieties. In the spiritual world also we have got varieties. Because we are originally of varieties of form, we are getting these varieties of body, being influenced by the modes of material nature. So I'm desiring that if I get such body, I can eat even stool. So God gives you, "All right, you take this body. Become a pig and eat stool." This is going on. Why? Your desiring. You eat, actually. So īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). He's friendly, He's sitting in everyone's heart, and the living entity is desiring. So bhrāmayan. Desiring means he wants to go here and there. Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni (BG 18.61). He gives a particular type of yantra, machine. This body is machine. Body is machine, everyone accepts. This is a machine. If we want to go to India, we ride on a machine, airplane, and go there. Similarly, bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni. We want varieties of life, and God gives us a particular machine to ride on and travel, go to heaven, go to hell, become a dog, become a cat, become a demigod, become a tree. This is going on. Transmigration of the soul. God gives us a particular type of body, and we change from one machine to another. This is transmigration.

Room Conversation With Scientists -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: It has nothing to do with the material world.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is this valid to conclude that spirit, spiritual world, or life is very complex?

Prabhupāda: Not complex, it is simply spirit. In the material world it is complex. In the spiritual world, it is simple.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Is it all right? Is it understood?

Sadāpūta: Spirit means completely different from matter.

Rūpānuga: The whole idea is that the matter, where it's not touched by spirit, it's not very complicated. When there's life, then you have such a complication like a body. The human body is very complicated because life is there. Without life...

Prabhupāda: No, just like a machine, it can be complicated. But as soon as you put the plug, gada-gada-gada-gada comes. But the electricity is not complicated, the machine is complicated.

Room Conversation With Scientists -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. One thing also, in the spiritual world, it is full of variegatedness.

Prabhupāda: That is spiritual variety.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Spiritual variety.

Prabhupāda: There is no difference.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That doesn't mean that it is complex, Śrīla Prabhupāda, yes?

Prabhupāda: No, there is no complexity.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: One point, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is that matter as it is, it has not even a specific form or pattern as compared with matter associated with life. When matter is associated with life it has specific groups of forms meant for a definite purpose and function. Now this is lacking when matter is left as it is. For example...

Prabhupāda: Yes, matter is utilized for the purpose of spirit soul. Otherwise matter has no independent existence. The whole thing is matter, but it is formed according to the desire of the spirit.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, that is not the fact.

Bill Sauer: So you need to take the bodies somewhere so that... (laughs)

Prabhupāda: No, so long you are in the material world you need to take a material body, but if you are in your original spiritual body, then you remain in the spiritual world.

Bill Sauer: Well, I believe there is a matrix of creation, a spiritual... Technical people call it an electromagnetic world, where I'm sure a lot goes on that we are unaware of, but I believe the... It's like one product of the fourth kingdom is the automobile. And that has it's spiritual world. Automobiles, if you destroyed all the automobiles, there are still blueprints around, there are still things that can manufacture other automobiles. But the trial, the improvement, the development the automobile has to take place as an automobile... Likewise, I think the spiritual improvement, the improvement of...

Prabhupāda: Automobile, automatically the automobile does not develop. When a man, a person, develops the design, that is a question of development. But the automobile as it is, it does not develop. It is matter. When matter is handled by a spirit soul, then there is change. Otherwise there is no change.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Guest (1): You mentioned an exchange of love in the spiritual world.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Guest (1): Could you explain that more?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Everyone is exchanging love in this world, we see that practically, that husband and wife are exchanging love, children and parents are exchanging love, friend and friend are exchanging love. There are so many different relationships in which we exchange love. Even animals like a dog; a cat/dog is exchanging love. It's been analyzed, experiments have been done that even a plant is more productive when he knows that the person who is taking care of the plant is a friend. They speak about the green thumb. So even plants respond. They are sensitive. In a sense they are also exchanging love in a simple way. So this loving propensity is natural. The difficulty is that due to ignorance, we're exchanging love on the bodily platform, which is asat, temporary. And therefore everyone is frustrated. Everyone is frustrated. It's a false platform of love. So the real platform of love is when we come to the soul platform. Kṛṣṇa speaks about this in the Bhagavad-gītā:

brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

(BG 18.54)

That when you come to the soul platform, it's also called brahma-bhūta stage or platform of the soul, then mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām: that bhakti, bhakti means transcendental love and service to God.

Prabhupāda: Bhakti means yes, exchange of love between God and the individual soul.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: You shall not expect anything in return. That is real love. Just like this mother is loving child, expecting anything—no, not expecting any return. But she still she gives service. So that is as a little sample of pure love. But here also some... When the child is grown up, if the child is not obedient, the mother practically withdraws love. But in the spiritual world, unconditionally love is there. As it is explained, āśliṣya vā pāda-ratāṁ pinaṣṭu mām. Marma-hatām: (CC Antya 20.47) whatever you do, I don't mind that but still I love you. That is pure love.

Guest (1): As a mother loves the child in pure love, does that help her to also find the pure love in the spiritual world?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Just like Mother Yaśodā is loving Kṛṣṇa. Nanda Mahārāja is loving Kṛṣṇa. That is pure love.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: This is the best example. On the throne, both of them are sitting, but king's consciousness and mosquito's consciousness are different. It is not because they are on the same throne, therefore of the same conscious. Mosquito's business is to bite, and king's business is to rule over.

Rāmeśvara: Another important thing to note about this painting is that the material world is said to be a reflection of the spiritual world. Just like here in this universe there are many planets, similarly there are many planets in the spiritual world. But it is a perverted reflection.

Prabhupāda: And besides that, even we are claiming to be very materially advanced, we do not know everything of the material world. Just like so big universe, material, what do you know about that? We have no knowledge practically. Even of the material world we have no sufficient knowledge, what to speak of the spiritual world.

Interviewer: Could you tell me something about your altar?

Prabhupāda: Which altar? This Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Lord Nityānanda, we are worshiping Him.

Arrival Speech -- July 28, 1976, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Kṣetra-jñākhya tathā para. Avidyā karma saṅgaḥ anya tṛtiya śaktir iśyate. Viṣṇu-śakti, Viṣṇu, the supreme controller, all-pervading Godhead, Viṣṇu, He and His potency, viṣṇu-śakti parā proktaḥ, both of them are transcendental. (someone translates into French throughout) So the Viṣṇu-śakti potency is one. Another reflection of the Viṣṇu-śakti is karma-saṅga anya, that is, you have to work. That is called tṛtiya, the third, karma-saṅga, where you have to work. The idea is that original Viṣṇu potency, you haven't got to work. Everything is supplied automatically. And the avidyā karma-saṅga anya, and the other reflection or perverted reflection, is this material world. Just like you have recited this verse, cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam (Bs. 5.29). In the spiritual world the trees are desire tree—means whatever we want, we can get—whereas in this material world, trees are not like that, they are limited potency. The cows there, unlimited potency. Surabhī means you can milk out as many times as you like, and as much as you like. So the idea is the spiritual world means there is no need of endeavoring for getting anything; everything is there automatically. And the material world, we have got experience, for everything we have to work so hard, then we can get something. So actually this material world is perverted reflection. Just like this body, without the spirit soul, it is useless; similarly, this material world, even if there is no spiritual touch, it is useless. So the more you spiritualize the whole atmosphere, the more you become sufficient and happy. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for that purpose.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That's it. Now unless you enter into the kingdom of God, you'll not feel full satisfaction. Even if you go to the moon planet or Mars planet, there is no question of satisfaction.

Atreya Ṛṣi: So your question is whether one can enter this kingdom of God with this body.

Prabhupāda: No, that is already explained—tyaktvā dehaṁ. Giving up this body, one can enter in the spiritual world. Viśate tad-anantaram—after death. By bhakti, when he's mature and he gives up this body, then he enters into the spiritual world. Tyaktvā deham, giving up this body. You cannot enter, although by devotional service the material activities of the body will stop, but you have to wait for the moment when this material body is no more existing, then with spiritual body you can enter. Tyaktvā deham, mām eti. Viśate tad-anantaram. Tad-anantaram after death. And if you have got little pinch of material attachment, then you'll have to accept another material body. So we have (to) come to the point that no more I want anything material. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). I am no more anyone's servant. I am neither American nor Iranian nor Indian nor Hindu nor Muslim, not this, not that, I'm simply servant of... That is my position. And so long I shall keep attachment for this designation, temporary... What is this Iranian, American, Indian? Say for few years. Because you have to change this body. Tyaktvā deham. Tathā dehāntaram. So after giving up this body, you have to accept another body. If I am in the next body I become a sparrow, then where is my conception of Iranian, Indian and Hindu, and Muslim? I am a sparrow. Jumping like sparrow, that's all. So these are designations, temporary designations. So one has to become free from these temporary designations. Then he's liberated. That is bhakti.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Ali: Why couldn't spirits grow without taking this body? Why couldn't spirits grow in the spiritual world without taking this material body.

Prabhupāda: You can go. It is your punishment. The material body... If one thinks in the prison house, "How one can live without prison house?" That is his misconception. Generally, one is expected to live outside the prison. But because that person is in the prison house since a long time, he cannot think that without prison house one can live; that is misconception. He has no idea of spiritual life, therefore he's thinking like that. Real business is how to get out of the prison. But he's thinking just the opposite way, that "If I do not remain in the prison, how can I eat?" A thief is thinking that "I'm living here very comfortably, without stealing. I'm getting food and shelter, and if I go outside I have to steal again." So it is good life? That is due to ignorance. There is very good life without the prison house. That he does not know. He does not know that there is a spiritual world where a spirit soul can live very comfortably, meeting God every day, talking with Him, dancing with Him. That he has no idea.

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Jñānagamya: Actually, Prabhupāda, that lust is a perverted expression of love. Kṛṣṇa is creating out of love, and in the material world it becomes perverted. So in the material world lust is the cause.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In the spiritual world, what is love, that is in the material world lust.

Harikeśa: Then you agree with me?

Jñānagamya: Yes, you are right, but you do not understand where that lust is coming from. That lust is perverted from Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Obstinate. It is perverted reflection of love. Actually, it is... They say it is love. The sahajiyās in Vṛndāvana, they have got connection with woman. If you criticize them, say "Why you are connected with illicit sex?" "What is the wrong there? It is love." They say it is love.

Room Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: It is further from them. Everything is being done by superior arrangement. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). People should learn all these things by practical example instead of becoming irresponsible and without any obedience to the superior law. They should learn it, but they have no intelligence. They think, "We are all free." Wherefrom the monkey is coming, why there are so many varieties of life, how it is...? What do they know? Nothing. All bluff, vague explanation and that is going on in the name of science. This is the position. All rascals. Fortunately we have got this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Bhagavad-gītā. All knowledge. First-class knowledge. (break) ...eternally-enjoyment. For him everything, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Everything ānanda. He has no such thing that this is harmful, that this is useful. That is Kṛṣṇa. Because nobody can do harm to Him and neither in the spiritual world, anyone is harmful. Everyone is advanced devotee. Even the tigers, they are also devotees.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Just like sex life is enjoyment, but a person who is suffering from tuberculosis—his death. He'll die if he indulges in sex life. That is medical science. "So it is condemned in the material world, not in the spiritual world. If you have good health, you can enjoy sex life. But you have tuberculosis? You'll die. Your sex life is death, and their sex life is life. That you cannot understand. You have such a poor brain that you could not follow even ordinary moral instruction of Jesus Christ." Answer should be given like that. "If you remain with your poor brain, don't try to argue. Be satisfied, your poor doggish brain, hoggish brain. You are like pigs and dogs. What you can understand about religion? First of all try to train yourself to be free from the sinful activities. Then you'll understand what is religion." Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam (BG 7.28). Ultimately, a person, sinful man, cannot go to the kingdom of God. Is it not? First of all stop this sex life; then talk of God. It is a fact. When the order of Jesus Christ, "Thou shall not kill," for the last two thousand years the rascals have never stopped killing. They are simply increasing slaughterhouse. And... So they are so poor in understanding, they say animal has no soul.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Yaśodānandana: Yasmād kṣaram atito 'ham akṣarād atito 'ham.(?) One who knows Kṛṣṇa knows everything.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. If you simply study Kṛṣṇa, then you'll study everything. Janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). He becomes immediately liberated. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti. He becomes competent to enter in the spiritual world and associate with Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, just like that story with the scissors, how can we force the scientists to accept Kṛṣṇa and the Bhagavad-gītā. How can we force the scientists to accept Bhagavad-gītā? The problem seems to be...

Prabhupāda: No, if it is a fact, you can force, if it is a fact. And if it is not fact, then it is obstinacy. If it is reality, you can force, just like the father forces the child, "Go to school." Because he knows without education his life will be frustrated, so he can force. I was forced. I was not going to school. Yes. My mother forced. My father was very lenient. My mother forced me. She kept one man especially to drag me to the school. So force is required.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: ...thousandth part of the top tip of the hair. That is also given. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā (CC Madhya 19.140). In the Upaniṣads there is. The dimension of the ātmā is given. That small particle, atomic, is so powerful. And what about the Supreme?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They ask, "What is the force that combined matter and the ātmā, matter and life, matter and the jīva or ātmā? What is the force behind it?"

Prabhupāda: Force because ātmā is independent. He can live in the spiritual world or in the material world as he likes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But is not correct, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that Paramātmā is the...

Prabhupāda: Paramātmā is...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...is behind.

Prabhupāda: Yes, behind, yes. He's the origin of ātmā. Mamaivāṁśa. Kṛṣṇa said, "This ātmā is my small particle part." He says that. So Paramātmā is the origin, and these are fragmental parts of Paramātmā.

Evening Darsana -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Wonderful. Thank you very much.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is him, this boy.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Very good. The more you distribute books, the more you are blessed. There is no more or less. Everyone is blessed... (laughter) There is no such discrimination, but still, there is some competition. (laughter) In Vṛndāvana there is no discrimination that gopīs are the highest and others... No. Every one is all right. Still, from neutral point of view, the gopīs are the highest. Caitanya Mahāprabhu..., ramya kaścid upāsanā vraja-vadhu vargabhir ya kalpita,(?) that "There is no standard of worship, what was conceived by the gopīs." Caitanya Mahāprabhu said. There is no distinction between the cowherd boys and the gopīs or the trees and the flowers and the calves and cows. It is the absolute platform. But still, in the spiritual world also there is distinction between living entities. That is variety, spiritual variety, viśeṣavāda.

Evening Darsana -- May 14, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: You cannot count how many there are. Now these, some of the jīvas, not all of them... Majority of them, they live in the spiritual world, just like majority of the population of the state, they live outside the prison house. Prison house means some of the citizens who are criminals, they are put into the jail. Similarly, these living entities who are criminals, means who have rebelled against the order of God, they are sent here, in this material world. So they are suffering one term after another. Therefore here is the chance, ayaṁ dehaḥ nṛloke. In the form of human body you can get out of it. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9). This is chance. And therefore Ṛṣabhadeva says, "My dear boys, you don't spoil your life." "I am working and enjoying. I am not spoiling." "No, this kind of working is done by the cats and hogs." Kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye: (SB 5.5.1) "For sense gratification the hogs and dogs, they also work very hard and then enjoy senses. So this body is not meant for that purpose." You are thinking that you are working so hard, karmī, and big, big skyscraper building and nice motorcar, nice roads. Electricity you have discovered. You are very advanced. Ṛṣabhadeva says, "This kind of advancement..." (break)...motorcar. "Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" Therefore He warns, "No, no, no, no. This is not civilization."

Room Conversation With Bharadvaja -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bharadvāja: The last portion of the exhibition is called "The Perfection of Life," and it is comprised of two portions, two parts. The first part describes the process of self-realization, and the second part is called the transcendence into the spiritual world, with emphasis on the reality of transcendental variegatedness and personality. That means we're actually going to try to give the viewer an experience of becoming purified. His senses are gradually becoming purified through the process of self-realization, and then we take him through the different spiritual realizations. And then the last part is Vṛndāvana-līlā of Kṛṣṇa, to show that the Lord is a perfect person and that everyone has a place in His personal service in the spiritual world. So this is the... That's the simple outline, and I have another portion here which deals a little more elaborately. I'll just read some of the things to you. So we call the introduction to the exhibition, we call it "The Overture." In this introduction there are several points. The first point is that we are not made up of... We're showing what is the body. So we're showing that the body is made up of different elements. And there's a film that shows how the man is made up of different component parts We are showing that different organs are just like different machines and mechanical systems, and that life is consciousness and that consciousness is different from and did not come from matter. So we're showing that the heart is like a pump, and lungs are like bellows, and the eyes are like cameras, and the ears are like tape recorders, and the brain is like a computer, and so on. But behind all of these machines there is the witness, there is the seer, or the soul. So he is different from all these different machines. Then we show... We take everything down to smaller and smaller particles, and we bring everything down to atomic structure, and then we show that there does not seem to be any purpose to this. So where is life? Are we just...? My life is full of purpose, so where is the life here? Can we be just molecules? Where does life begin? On this portion of the exhibit we are working with Svarūpa Dāmodara and the Bhaktivedanta Institute to make a scientific presentation. This will involve films and dolls and other special effects to show the..., how ridiculous is the idea of material evolution, so-called evolution of matter into consciousness. So Svarūpa Dāmodara has his own presentation that we're going to use here. We've seen some of it during the conference. Then the second exhibit will perhaps be a whole group of scientists, and these scientists are sitting in one room, but they're all from different ages. And each one of them in turn expresses that they're having so many doubts. This we will take directly from their own quotations from different biographies, and we will show that the scientists are very confused about the origin of life, that they cannot actually explain anything, and they are saying this in their own words. Many scientists have said things like this-Darwin, Einstein. We have a list of eight here, and we can use their quotes. And they express bafflement, ignorance and failure to understand life or explain the universe. Then we show how... We put man back together out of chemicals, so-called. We're going back to the original man, which... We have analyzed one man, and now we're going back from the molecular level again back to the man. And then we show how the fetus is developing. We're showing that the life and consciousness is there from the very beginning. And then there is a film that shows this, and then that shifts to that display of the changing body.

Prabhupāda: Life begins from water.

Bharadvāja: Life begins from water? How is that?

Prabhupāda: Just like the sea. Sea, and from within the sea an exhibition of life begins in the form of sea animals or fish or similar. Then life develops, evolves. Life... Sea does not generate life, but in the material world, life begins from water.