Expressions researched:
"in the same way"
|"same way"
Hayagrīva: I see. Now this third scene.
Prabhupāda: Third scene. In the same way, one day when He was 48 years old He entered the Jagannātha temple...
Hayagrīva: And disappeared.
Prabhupāda: Disappeared. His friends outside waited and waited, and He never come back. That's all.
Hayagrīva: They never knew what happened to Him. They never found...
Prabhupāda: Yes, they knew that He was Kṛṣṇa. He has merged into the existence of Jagannātha.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, in spite of advancement of education, science, civilization, a nice dress, car, and everything, nobody trusts nobody. You see? Everywhere you go, a gentleman's house, oh, "Beware of the dog," "No trespasser allowed." Always suspicious. An individual person is suspicious of another individual person. A nation is suspicious of another nation. A community is suspicious of another community. So how can you have peace and prosperity? Suspiciousness means animal, animalistic. A dog is suspicious of another dog. As soon as it finds another dog, immediately begins to bark." Row! Row! Row!" So is that human civilization? So what is the mistake of the human civilization? The mistake of the human civilization is that they have forgotten the relationship with God. So here is the scientific statement of our relationship with God. And then, according to that relationship, exactly in the same way, just like understanding your relationship, your citizenship in a state you can act nicely, similarly if we know our relationship with God, we can act very nicely and that is peaceful life. And besides that, this life, the present life is not all. We have got life after death. That is a fact. Just like we are continuously in life, in this present life, you were a child, I was a child. Everyone of us were a child.
Prabhupāda: Yes, the thing is that persons who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness anywhere, even they are put into a very uncomfortable position, they are not suffering in the same way as ordinary man.
Interviewer: Oh, we have people who want to talk to you. Caller, you're on the air with the Swami on KGO.
Caller (Gargamuni again): Thank you. Hello, Swamiji?
Prabhupāda: Yes?
Gargamuni: What is the perfection of this life?
Reporter: Well, I mean, anyone can make that... There are many people who feel just that way although they may have no acquaintance with Vedic literature either and might feel the same way. Why go?
Prabhupāda: No, it is a common sense affair that if somebody takes the trouble of doing so many things for the last ten or twenty years and go there and touch the moon planet, come back, it is successful. So it may be complacence for him, but I don't think it is success. Why should I take so much trouble to touch the moon planet, come back? (chuckling) I have no useless time for that thing.
Reporter: Well, I think that what you're saying, that it is also not strictly impossible for someone to go there and be able to come back, that many conditions would have to change for them to do that, but you wouldn't rule out as impossible. Is that right?
Prabhupāda: No. Actually, if anyone goes there, he'll not like to come back.
Reporter: If anyone goes there...
Prabhupāda: Spiritual master is the representative of God, or Kṛṣṇa. Just like if you work in some office, so there is one head man, representative of the proprietor of the company. You have to work under him. If you satisfy that person who is in charge of that department, that means you are satisfying the proprietor of the company. Is it clear? And he can give you direction how to work nicely because he's experienced. The boss. So spiritual master is external manifestation of God. God is within and without. Within, He is Supersoul. He will give you... If you are sincere, He will give you good counsel, "You do like this." You'll get dictation from within. That requires advancement of spiritual life. Then you get from within dictation. So God is helping from within and without. Within, as Paramātmā, and without as spiritual master. Both ways. As soon as you are sincere, then God will send you to somebody who is His bona fide spiritual representative. And if you take help from him, and help within and without... Just like a person going, or a boy going to a school, he's getting training in the school as well as home, both sides. Then his chance is very good. So we have to take both wise: from inside, from outside. You are doing some things in the service of the Lord. How you'll know that you are doing it properly or improperly? This you will know from the spiritual master. If he says, "It is all right," then it is all right. If he says, "It is not good," then it is not good. Just like the same way.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because ordinary people, they are thinking God must be so great, so great, great, that they cannot conceive. And that great personality, how He becomes a cowherd boy playing with cowherd boys? Yes. Brahmā also became astonished, and therefore he came to check "Whether He is my Lord or not?" (laughter) Yes. Bewildered. Muhyanti yatra sūrayaḥ. The Bhāgavata says therefore, even the great personalities like Brahmā, they are also bewildered to understand the personality. He, Brahmā also heard that at Vṛndāvana Kṛṣṇa has appeared and He is acting as a cowherd boy. He was also astonished. "Oh, my Lord? He has become a cowherd boy?" So he came to check. He, I mean to say, took away all the cowherd boys and cows and everything. And after a few seconds he came, he said Kṛṣṇa is playing in the same way. And although the, I mean, stolen cowherd boys and cows they, by the, I mean to say, energy of māyā, by influence of Brahmā, they were kept in a secret cave. They were sleeping. But Kṛṣṇa is playing. That means He has manifested again with the cowherd boys and cows. Then he was convinced, "Yes, He is my Lord." Then Brahma-stava is there. Ānanda cinmaya rasa pratibhāvitābhis tābhirya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ (Bs. 5.37). So Kṛṣṇa can expand in many, many thousand times.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. He is American. He is human being. In so many qualities you are one. But you cannot claim for that, you are President Nixon. You should understand in that way. In so many respect, qualities, you are one with God, but that does not mean you are God. God is one. That means you have no complete understanding. Just like in spite of your becoming American or human being, you deny to identify yourself with President Nixon because you have full knowledge of President Nixon and yourself. And as soon as you say, "I am God," that means you have no full knowledge of God. You are insane. You do not know what is God. That very thing immediately asserts that you are unknown factor about God. God is said, "Great," but you are claiming that greatness. That means you do not know how great He is. A tiny factor, you are claiming that "I am God," without having that greatness. That means insane, insanity. The same way: if you claim that "I am President Nixon," that is insanity. Similarly, God is, how great He is, how much greater than President Nixon. You deny to become one with President Nixon, and you accept to be one with God? How much insane you are. Just try to understand. Yes?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is a jugglery of words. So his principle was that they did not believe in God. So still the Buddhists says, "You don't believe in God." So but they are worshiping God, Lord Buddha. There are so many temples. In the same way, as we worship. So this is transcendental cheating.
Allen Ginsberg: Transcendental cheating.
Prabhupāda: (chuckling) Just like sometimes father has to cheat his child. That is not cheating. That is welfare. But apparently it (looks) likes cheating. A child is insistent on some point. "Yes, yes. You are all right. But you do this like this. Yes, you are very good boy." Like that. But Vaiṣṇava, in Vaiṣṇava literature, in Vedic literature, he is God. The godless worshiping God in a different way. If there is nothing, why they should worship Buddha even?
Prabhupāda: Anyway, whatever he may be, he does not go up to Kṛṣṇa. (chuckles)
George Harrison: Personality, anyway, of...
John Lennon: Well, that's what he used to say in exactly the same way, about anybody else.
Prabhupāda: No, no. He cannot be because he does not speak about anything Kṛṣṇa. A peon comes, he does not know anything about post office—what kind of peon he is?
Yoko Ono: No, but his post office... He was talking about his post office.
Prabhupāda: No, you cannot create post office. Post office one. Government post office.
Yoko Ono: Yes, of course. I'm sure there's only one post office.
Dr. Weir: Far more acceptable to every type of Christian than any of the specific creeds or sects, you know, the Church of England, Anglicans, Roman Catholics, every other form of prophecy. And you have that greater universality. (indistinct) And you've got Tibetans (who) will accept your places in the same way as a westerner could.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Dr. Weir: A Tibetan could accept your position.
Prabhupāda: Tiberian? Tibetians? What is their philosophy?
Dr. Weir: You've heard of the Dalai Lama?
Prabhupāda: Yes. What does he say?
Dr. Weir: Well, his position would be the same as yours. Wouldn't it? In religion?
Mensa Member: You mean the Tibetan Buddhist attitude about the Godhead is the same as the Kṛṣṇas?
Dr. Weir: Yes. They have that same basis.
Dr. Weir: In the same way, how can you satisfy a person's lack of emotional content in his job by giving him more money? Half of the trouble starts with the jobs, is they have no emotive content now because there's no rapport between them and their boss. They have practically no intellectual interest because they've a routine job in a factory. And you know they are really deprived in a sad way.
Mensa Member: Then what worries lots of people about lots of religions is the (indistinct) for example of pointing a finger at the (indistinct) choosing the finger with the (indistinct)
Dr. Weir: One of the difficulties, and I think this is true when I was saying simple people, using that in a broader sense, some people cannot get anything at all unless they have a little picture. You know, it helps them; not like the dear old lady who found...
Prabhupāda: That we give, the picture. Here is God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That qualification... Love of Kṛṣṇa is not so easy. We have to reach that point after many processes. Exactly in the same way, to become a secretary of the president, personal assistant, it is not very easy job. It requires some qualification. Similarly, to serve Kṛṣṇa, it requires some qualification. And what is that qualification? Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam: (CC Madhya 19.170) when we give up our designation. At the present moment, we are all designated: "I am Indian," "I am Christian," "I am American," "I am Pakistani," "I am Hindustani." These designations are going on. When you give up your designation, sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ (CC Madhya 19.170), that is mukti. "I am not Indian," "I am not Christian," "I am not Pakistani," "I am not Hindu." What you are?
Prabhupāda: No. How can you? Kṛṣṇa has unlimited energy. (break)
Bob: I've asked devotees about how they feel towards sex in their relations, and I under..., I see their way they feel, but I can't see myself acting the same way. See, I'll be getting married in this end of this summer.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Bob: I'll be getting married the end of this summer, in September or August, when I return to America. And the devotees say that the householders only have sex to conceive a child. And I cannot picture myself at all in such a position, and... What kind of sex life can one lead, living in the material world?
Prabhupāda: But it means to them.
Author: Yes. No. I'm not saying that it's meaningless. I'm saying that it appears to be meaningless in the same way that one should wonder why he has his head shaven and why he wears those clothes. If one doesn't understand, these things are...
Prabhupāda: At least, they can take by shaving head means it cleans, cleanses. The head is not overburdened with unnecessary... (laughter) We want clear brain, and that is the system, Vedic system. All learned scholars, they cleanse head. Cleanse head. Yes. And at least we get relief. A little hair growing is also burdensome. We cleanse. So it is personal convenience. So that is not the point of preaching.
Prabhupāda: No. That I have explained. You work for the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. That is called "Don't see to the result." Kṛpaṇa, kṛpaṇāḥ phala-hetavaḥ. Kṛpaṇa. There are two classes of men. One is kṛpaṇa, and one is brāhmaṇa. Kṛpaṇa, they want his sense satisfaction, and brāhmaṇa, they want Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction. Satisfaction must be there but when you want your satisfaction, that is kṛpaṇa. Kṛpaṇāḥ phala-hetavaḥ. He wants to enjoy the result. That is the whole world. Material world means everyone wants his sense satisfaction, but the same way, when you'll satisfy Kṛṣṇa's senses, then you become brāhmaṇa or Vaiṣṇava. The result must be there. If you work, there must be some result, bad or good. But if you want to enjoy, yourself, then you are kṛpaṇa. And if the result is enjoyed by Kṛṣṇa, then you are brāhmaṇa. Result must be there. Any work you do, there must be some result, and that is also described in the... Yajñārthāt karma.
Prabhupāda: It is a fact. Just like this child is transmigrating from one body, one kind of body to another body. So in the same way, when I give up this body I transmigrate to another body. This is the science. Unfortunately, there is no university, no education, no culture of this great science. Therefore according to Bhāgavatam, the knowledge is imperfect. The knowledge which are imparting from universities, they are not perfect knowledge. And this human form of body is the opportunity to understand the position of the soul and how he is transmigrating from one body to another, what is happening next. In this way, in this human form of body, we can understand this science, science of soul. Unfortunately, no education is there to understand this science. So in other words, it may be taken that the modern civilization is killing the prerogative of the human being. He has got a chance to understand himself and to stop. He can stop this repetition of birth and death. He can remain in a spiritual form in the spiritual kingdom or with God, but these things are unknown to him, because there is no discussion in any university or any institution of knowledge.
Prabhupāda: But, but, that is not (indistinct). If you get another body, naturally the same way of life. Same way of life means this life... This material body means four functions: eating, sleeping, sex intercourse, and defense. So as soon as you take another body, it's the same business (indistinct). It may be dog's life, it may be cat's life, or it may be human life. But the business is the same: eating, sleeping, sex intercourse and defense.
Scholar: And the idea of nirvāṇa, and soul...
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. That is an... That you have to prepare. That is not for the cats and dogs. That is meant for really human beings, those who are actually executing life as human beings. That is not for the cats and dogs. (pause) All right. Thank you very much.
Mr. Wadell: But not necessarily in the same way. Because....
Prabhupāda: No. Just to understand what is God, if you try to understand in this way that "God is good," "God is all-attractive," is it not perfect?
Mr. Wadell: It is a partial statement.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mr. Wadell: But it doesn't tell me...
Prabhupāda: But then, when you go deep into the matter, you understand more and more. In the beginning...
Mr. Wadell: But you will never, I suspect, here on earth understand...
Prabhupāda: No, no, that suspicion I have already answered...
Prabhupāda: They might have gone to hell, but I am not... (laughter) I cannot offer him hellish things. Bhagavat-prasāda. We are offering our Bhagavat-prasādam. Nobody is denying. You can offer in the same way. We are not offering tea or coffee. Whatever we have got, take it. So this is artificial. We can avoid all these difficulties. There is no difficulty at all.
Guest (9): No, what I (indistinct) I take but wife takes half, and children, they didn't take it, but they want a cup of coffee. One boy wants cup of coffee, the girl wants a cup of tea and...
Prabhupāda: Well, the...
Guest (9): But the... And when the... That is the... This is the problem...
Prabhupāda: This happened in my life... This happened in my life.
Revatīnandana: Just see. In the government there are so many cabinet ministers, offices, etc. And in every cabinet minister and in every office the will of the Prime Minister is going on. Therefore in one sense the Prime Minister is everything. Still, the Prime Minister is a person who is in control of all those cabinet officers and offices. And you won't find the Prime Minister in each office, but he's there, because of his influence. In the same way you are in Kṛṣṇa's energies, and He is everywhere through His energies, but He remains the person in control. The same thing.
Prabhupāda: That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtani na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ (BG 9.4). Although you do not find Kṛṣṇa in somewhere, but His energy is acting, there. So one who has eyes to see how Kṛṣṇa's energy is acting, he sees Kṛṣṇa. Same example. Because the Prime Minister's energy is working in that office, so the Prime Minister is there present. So everything is demonstration of the energy. Just like you are in the room, you have not seen the sun, but as soon as the sunshine is there, you know that sun is there. You see the sun through the sunshine, although it is not that sun has come into your room. The sunshine, coming of the sunshine within your room, is sufficient knowledge to know that here is sun. Sun is there. That is the Vedic statement, that you can understand there is fire when there is heat. If there is light and heat, then you can understand there is fire. That heat and light is sufficient, now, what is the heat and light? This is energy of the fire.
Prabhupāda: That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtani na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ (BG 9.4). Although you do not find Kṛṣṇa in somewhere, but His energy is acting, there. So one who has eyes to see how Kṛṣṇa's energy is acting, he sees Kṛṣṇa. Same example. Because the Prime Minister's energy is working in that office, so the Prime Minister is there present. So everything is demonstration of the energy. Just like you are in the room, you have not seen the sun, but as soon as the sunshine is there, you know that sun is there. You see the sun through the sunshine, although it is not that sun has come into your room. The sunshine, coming of the sunshine within your room, is sufficient knowledge to know that here is sun. Sun is there. That is the Vedic statement, that you can understand there is fire when there is heat. If there is light and heat, then you can understand there is fire. That heat and light is sufficient, now, what is the heat and light? This is energy of the fire. So when Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, "These material elements," bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4), earth, water, fire, air, they are My energies, so if one has studied Kṛṣṇa, then as soon as He sees a great ocean, He sees Kṛṣṇa: "Oh, this is Kṛṣṇa's energy." As soon as sees a big anything, fire, water, anything, He sees Kṛṣṇa, nothing but Kṛṣṇa because He knows. Exactly in the same way, as soon as you feel heat, you know that there is fire. You don't require to see the fire. But if you feel, "Oh it is hot, oh, there must be fire." This is studying Kṛṣṇa. And this is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to feel the presence of Kṛṣṇa everywhere. So everything requires training, undergoing the process. Then it is possible. It is not impossible. So if you also go, the training, the process, you'll also understand. It is not difficult.
Prabhupāda: You may not, but nature is different. Just like a child does not hope that if he puts his finger in a fire, it will not burn. But nature is so strict, it doesn't care for the child or the old man. It will burn. I may prove very innocent, but nature doesn't care for that. Nature doesn't care for that. Nature will not show any mercy for the innocent child. No. That is nature. Is it not fact? If a child puts his finger on the fire, nature will not consider that: "Here is a innocent child. He may not be burned." No. Equally. Therefore nature is very strong. We cannot avoid the control of the nature. If you do something, it must acting, react in the same way. The same... If you put your finger in the fire, it must react, burn it. Nature is so strong. So as soon as you violate any law of nature, you'll be punished. That is... Just like God... State police is there, engaged by the government. As soon as you violate law, the police will arrest you and give you punishment. Similarly material nature means the police of God.
David Lawrence: The British Association which is, many people regard an irrelevant bunch of scientists, who meet once a year, one of the good speeches was in fact given on the question of the value of human life. And one of the points was made there by somebody who has had to talk to these girls who come in to have abortions, some cases their third and fourth abortion, and they're not married of course. And saying that many of the girls regard an abortion in the same way as they regard a shampoo for their hair.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
David Lawrence: "O, well you know, hair's got to be washed, we wash hair. Womb's got to be cleaned out, we clean the womb out." Just like that.
Prabhupāda: And where is movement in the shampoo? That means that human beings are simply being put into ignorance, animal kingdom. This is modern civilization.
David Lawrence: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: One has to understand that a lady should be respectfully called as mother. You call as mātā or mother, it doesn't matter. Yes, some rascals inquire from them that, "Do you know Sanskrit?" Where is the condition that unless one knows Sanskrit he cannot be a devotee? Where is that condition?
Guest: In the same way you see early Christians inquired, "Do you know Latin?" And that's why the whole of England wrote it and said we will do only in English.
Prabhupāda: So, one bābājī... I think that you were in Surat?
Devotee:: Yes.
Prabhupāda: You were Surat? He was asking, that bābājī, that, "Learn Sanskrit then you'll understand Bhagavad-gītā." So I immediately asked him that, "You go away, you go away from this place."
Guest: Not at all.
Prabhupāda: And that foolishness has killed the whole Vedic civilization.
Yaśomatīnandana: I thought the same way before I became a disciple of Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Here is a... He comes from a very respectable brāhmaṇa family, but he knows...
Yaśomatīnandana: Well I realized afterwards that I was lower than a śūdra, because actually it was my duty and I rejected it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why we are accepting in Europe and America all them brāhmaṇa? They are not born in brāhmaṇa family. But why we are giving them sacred thread? Only for quality and work. That is said in the śāstra. Nārada Muni says that the quality and the symptoms is the real platform of judging who is brāhmaṇa, who is śūdra. Nārada said and Śrīdhara Svāmī has commented upon him that birth is immaterial. Quality and work is (indistinct). Otherwise how Caitanya Mahāprabhu can accept Haridāsa Ṭhākura as nāmācārya, the authority of the Holy Name? He was born in a Mohammedan family.
Prabhupāda: The same way. Bodily suffering. Infection. The spiritual master accepts the all infection. So as the infection acts on the body, so there is little suffering. Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). Kṛṣṇa says, "All the sinful reaction of the surrendered soul..." So spiritual master is the representative of Kṛṣṇa. So he has also to accept. (break) ...the injunction is one should not accept many disciples. But for preaching work we have to do that. (break)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...to finish my thesis, so I won't be able to come every day in the morning.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. You do your duty. (break)
Prajāpati: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I'm so sorry that you have to suffer cause we're such rascals.
Prabhupāda: No, no. I'll not suffer.
Prabhupāda: Dog. So we... śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). They are all ass, camels, dogs, like that and they are praising each other. "Oh, you have discovered this. Oh, how nice you are. (laughter) How nice you are." But we understand the praiser and the praised, both are dogs and cats. That's all. So we don't give any benefit. It is a mutual praising society of cats and dogs, so we don't give any benefit. Now, they can also accuse us in the same way, that "You are also the society of cats and dog, mutual praising society." So... Now, who will judge whether they are right or we are right? Who will judge? Eh? There must be some judgement. Everyone will say that "I am right." But who judges? There must be a judge, that through both side the lawyers is fighting, that "My case is right." Then who will give judgement? There must be one judge. So who is that judge?
Prabhupāda: Subtle body... Just like your body at night is on the bed, but you are carried by the thinking, feeling, intelligence to somewhere else. Is it not? So how are you are carried? You are actually lying on the bed. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. It is carried by the subtle body. Similarly, death means that this body stops working. But the subtle mind... Exactly in the same way. Just as while you are sleeping this gross body has stopped to work, but the subtle body is working.
Dr. Patel: That is in, I mean, svapna.
Prabhupāda: Svapna, yes.
Dr. Patel: But that does not work in deep sleep.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore, to receive the order of Kṛṣṇa, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12), one should approach the bona fide representative of Kṛṣṇa and take order from Him what to do, and that is his only duty. That is his only duty. Otherwise he will manufacture so many duties. That will not be helpful to him. That niscayatmika-buddhiḥ, that has been very nicely explained by Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura, that "Whatever order I receive from my guru, that is my life and soul. I don't mind whether I'll be liberated or not, whether I will be successful or not. That is not my concern. My only concern is to see whether I am factually, faithfully carrying out the order of my guru." This is... Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura notes. So these things are being explained in the same way that "You do not think which is right or wrong. You simply... I have asked you to fight. You go on fighting and take the credit. That's all."
Yogeśvara: You could say, with the same consciousness.
O'Grady: Yes, with the same consciousness, with the same dedication, with the same devotion, absolutely. And when there's supposed to be singing, the same way, enjoying yourself the same way, and when you're relaxing, you've got to do it with the same devotion, absolutely. No question about it. Otherwise you're being irresponsible. We should go. Thank you very much.
Prabhupāda: Thank you very much for your coming.
O'Grady: We'll see you on Tuesday, hopefully. (guests leave) (end)
Prabhupāda: What is the conception?
Richard Webster: They have some basic conceptions which are eternal in, the same way as your own, perhaps.
Prabhupāda: In the Vedic literature we have information, two eternals. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām. It is personally identified. "There is one chief eternal, and there are many other eternals." So then it means the chief eternal is God, and other subordinate eternals are living entities. Just like we are all living entities. We are in different forms, but we are eternal. The form is not eternal, but the owner of the form is eternal. And similarly, the chief eternal is God. That is described in the Vedas,
In this way. So the chief eternal is the maintainer of the many subordinate eternals. This is the idea of God and the living entities. So we are dependent eternals or the the predominated eternals. And there is another eternal, chief eternal, who is the maintainer of all these eternals and who is the predominator. We are predominated. This is the conception of Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy.
Prabhupāda: This is material energy. Bhūmir āpo 'nalaḥ, explain that.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: That the material energies—earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego—these energies, they come from Kṛṣṇa. In other words, we are speaking of energy. There is an origin to the energy. We always have an experience. Just like there is sunshine here, but the sun, origin, is millions of miles away. So in the same way these energies also have origin. It's not that they are just existing without some source. And Kṛṣṇa is describing here in the Seventh Chapter—this is called Knowledge of the Absolute—how these energies are related to Him. Now, in the material world it's described that there are two energies. This is called bhinnā prakṛtir aṣṭadhā, inferior energy. This will be described in the next verse. Apareyam itas tv anyāṁ prakṛtiṁ viddhi me parām (BG 7.5). Now, this is describing the superior energy or the parām, the parāṁ prakṛti. And this is described, "Besides this inferior nature," which is this earth, air, water, fire, ether, "O Mighty-armed Arjuna, there is a superior energy of Mine which are all the living entities who are struggling with material nature and are sustaining the universe."
Yogeśvara: (translates) There's a story. Someone asked Lord Jesus to describe how we should love all people. Describe... Just like a man who has one hundred sheep and there is one of them who has gone astray, he is lost, so the man leaves aside all of his other hundred sheep to go looking for that one sheep. So in the same way, he says, we must take care of the people who are suffering. The minority, those who are suffering, they must receive food, they must be given help and fed.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But why you should kill animal?
Young Swiss Man (3): At the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā...
Prabhupāda: And Christ says, "Thou shall not kill." Why you are killing? From the very beginning disobedience. How you can become Christian?
Young Swiss Man (3): Isn't it at the beginning Arjuna hesitates to kill his family and doesn't want to go to fight, and what he is taught, through Bhagavad-gītā in some way is that he should not restrain and that...
Yogeśvara: I can remember now. When I was in college, there were so many groups trying to reform the young people, the Y.M.C.A, the church groups, so many different social-working groups, trying to make young people become more, not so restless, not so much wild, but no, nothing. Couldn't do a thing. I remember I used to go to school when I was in college once a week to take care of one young boy because he was making so much trouble. They asked if some student from the university would come to see with him and talk with him once a week, to go out and go to the park and so on. So I used to see him, and he would be in school, and when I would come, all of the children would be the same way. I couldn't distinguish him from the others. They were all wild. And then they said, "Oh, he's the one, there."
Prabhupāda: Is there any other meeting?
Jyotirmayī: Yes. It will be later. It will be at six-fifteen, in forty-five minutes. The man coming, will be a psychiatrist.
Satsvarūpa: So we can take your leave until then.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: The example is that this body, there is a living force within the body which is causing it to move and to work, and that living force is the soul. And when the soul leaves this body, then the body is no longer moving and eating and talking and hearing and seeing. So in the same way in this universe there is a greater spiritual person, and His body, in a sense, is this whole universe, and it is moving on the same principle because He is the supreme consciousness.
Deshimaru: But what do you know about the soul leaving the body? Maybe when the body leaves the soul, the soul also dies.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: The point is that body and soul are two things.
Deshimaru: I think it is same thing.
Prabhupāda: You think, but how you can prove?
Deshimaru: How you can prove that the body...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, you cannot prove. When the soul is gone...
Prabhupāda: Generally, we see now, especially in the western countries, they are working so hard. The master is wine and woman. That's all. Is it not? They have made their master wine and women. In Paris we see everywhere. On the street they are drinking and talking. In Germany also, I have seen. You have been in Germany?
Devotee: Amsterdam is the same way.
Prabhupāda: Amsterdam is a place simply for prostitutes.
Devotee: It is the center.
Prabhupāda: This is very prominent in the western country, which we are asking, that no meat-eating, no intoxication, no illicit sex. These things are only thing enjoyable.
Satsvarūpa: They think if you eliminate those, there is nothing left to live for.
Prabhupāda: Jesus has given some instruction or not? (German)
Pṛthu: So he says that Jesus has given some directions and this is that we should love our brother in the same way as we love ourselves and that we should not do any harm to anyone.
Prabhupāda: But Jesus has said also those who are sinful, they'll go to hell? Is it not? Satsvarūpa?
Satsvarūpa: I can't think of any quote, but of course, that's the teachings of God the father.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (German)
Pṛthu: She says like if she makes a comparison like if today there is a car crash, then all the people will say something different and the information will differ from the original car crash. So she says, in the same way, what Jesus did and said is now twisted around so nobody can actually give...
Prabhupāda: That means everyone has rejected Jesus. (German) (break)
Pṛthu: ...that what Jesus said, this is all right, but what is now made of it, this one shouldn't take wordly.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Pṛthu: She says what Jesus said is all right, but what is now existing from that, one should not take wordly.
Haṁsadūta: Literally.
Prabhupāda: Hm? I do not follow.
Prabhupāda: Therefore Vedic instruction is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In order to get first-class experience of the perfection of life, you must approach guru. That is the Vedic injunction. Samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham. Now, who is guru? Whom shall I approach? So the next line explains that approach such guru, śrotriyam, who has heard from his guru perfectly, that guru. Who had no chance of hearing from perfect guru, he is not guru. This is called guru-paramparā, disciplic succession. I hear from a perfect person, and I distribute the knowledge the same way, without any change. So Kṛṣṇa gives us knowledge in the Bhagavad-gītā. We are distributing the same knowledge. It is not by our... (aside:) Water is not required. Water I don't want. There is water. So I am always inexperienced because my power of understanding is very little. Therefore I must get experience from a person who is perfect. Then my experience is perfect. Just like a child does not know what is this. he asks his father, "What is this, father?" Father says, "My dear child, it is microphone."
Prabhupāda: No, remains means in the same way. Just like if I leave this room and it remains here, in a few years time it will be destroyed. Similarly, if you leave this body, in a few hours... It is a question of hours and years. (German) (break)
Vedavyāsa: ...saying that this body is, the soul is eminent.
Prabhupāda: The soul is different from the body.
Vedavyāsa: Yes, but at the same time, he says there must be a very intimate connection of, actually a oneness of body and soul. That is what is now.
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Dr. P. J. Saher: As long as we are alive.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because Kṛṣṇa is immediately pleased. "Oh, he's obedient and respectful to My devotee." It is in the same way, "Oh, he loves my child so much. He loves my dog." Dog is not qualified. But because the gentleman's dog is loved, the gentleman is pleased. This is counteractive. Similarly, a pure devotee, representative of God, if he is offered respect, that respect goes to God.
Satsvarūpa: Prabhupāda, you said that we should respect everyone as a devotee, but then also you teach that...
Prabhupāda: No, no. By qualification, a Vaiṣṇava respects everyone.
Satsvarūpa: But then there's also a teaching not to respect a nondevotee even if he's a big man. We may formally offer him respect, but if...
Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness. This body, you can say, this is material body; that is also material body. But not this body. Just like you change your cloth. The other cloth also made of cotton, and this is also made of cotton. In the same way, you can say, "the same body," cotton body or dress. But you cannot say that this cloth or this dhoti is going with you. How they can say? This body is lying here. This body means this material body.
Madhudviṣa: They will say, "Some things you cannot understand. You must simply accept on faith."
Prabhupāda: "You cannot understand"—that is also good. Suppose a child cannot understand. But there must be some explanation. Otherwise, how in advanced stages one can accept. They will say, "dogmatic." This body means this material body, and this material body has got so many shapes, 8,400,000. So hell means... This is also hellish. A tree is standing for five thousand years or five hundred years. Is it not hellish? If I ask you, "Stand here for five days," you will die. (laughing) If there is such order from the government, "You stand here for so many days..."
Prabhupāda: I said that if one engages himself in the service of the Lord some way or other, then the revelation, the original dormant God consciousness and love of God, becomes revived. Exactly in the same way: the psychiatrists, they treat the crazy fellow by talking, talking, talking some way. So if we talk of Kṛṣṇa, then the original Kṛṣṇa consciousness is revived. That is also stated. You find out in the Bhāgavata, śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi... (SB 1.2.17). Yes, purport. So this is very important thing. Therefore we have published so many books about Kṛṣṇa—to hear. Hearing, hearing, hearing, and... Just like man is sleeping. You talk loudly, and he will be awakened. Yes. That's it.
Prabhupāda: So advanced spiritual life means he becomes dhīra. He is no more disturbed by these material laws, and he becomes free of all lusty desires. This is spiritual perfection. So long you have got lusty desires, any position immediately you will try to same way snatch (indistinct). Never satisfied. Hṛd-rogaḥ kāmam, that is the heart disease. It has been described as heart disease. Lusty desire within the heart. Just like one who has got heart disease, he succumbs to that disease, similarly, all these living entities they have succumbed—what is called, succumb?—by lusty desires. By spiritual advancement means that heart disease is cured. Then you will be... Then there is no more envious that "I shall become superior. I shall become Kṛṣṇa. I shall become God." These are different symptoms of the same material disease. Somebody is thinking "I shall become minister," somebody is thinking "I shall become leader," somebody is thinking "I shall become millionaire," and at last, "I shall become God." So even the so-called religionist, that heart disease is there. Bhukti-mukti-siddhi kāmī. Bhukti means ordinary karmīs want to enjoy in this material world. And mukti, they also want "I shall become God, I shall become one with God." That means "I shall become God."
Prabhupāda: No, I liked it. Although I was sick, still, I liked it. Day and night, for thirty-five days.
Haṁsadūta: I came to America in the same way, but I was always sick. I didn't like it.
Prabhupāda: The sea journey is very good provided there is no sea-sickness. Otherwise very bad. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare Hare Rāma... (break) ...all of our books in different languages. At least all the European languages. America is one language.
Guru-kṛpa: South America.
Prabhupāda: South America, different languages. Spanish.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice. But make them devotees. That is the real father and mother, who begets children and make him devotee. That is real father and mother. Otherwise cats and dogs. A Tulasī dāsa, he has written one poetry that "A son and the urine comes from the same way." Son... Son means it is born out of the semina. That also comes through the genital, and the urine also comes through the genital. So he is giving this example that "Putra and Mutra..." Mutra, means urine, and putra means son, comes from the same passage. So if the son is a devotee, then he's putra; otherwise he's mutra. (laughter) Otherwise he's urine. Very nice. Yes. Putra and mutra come from the same channel. If he's a devotee, then he's putra, otherwise he's mutra. (break) ...miseries are compared with the heat and cold. Mātrā sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ (BG 2.14). Śīta and uṣṇa. Uṣṇa means hot, and śīta means cold. They are pleasing and miserable in circumstances.
Prabhupāda: The others? That is the distinction between matter and spirit. Just like this microphone, it is combination of earth, water, air, fire, like that. But the living being, he has utilized, he has combined this matter into this microphone. Is that admitted? Now, exactly like the microphone, the combination of matter and done by some living entity, similarly, the whole cosmic manifestation is combination of matter, and there is one living being or the Supreme Being who has combined them, and it is working. Is that admitted? So that is the difference between limited and unlimited, that I, you are living being... We can also create something like this microphone or this big aeroplane. We have created. That is limited. But there is another one who has created innumerable planets and that is floating in the air. Is it not? We are taking credit of becoming big scientist by creating one airship, 747, five hundred passengers carrying. How many we have created? Maybe hundred, two hundred. But there are millions and trillions of planets floating in the same way in the air, and those planets containing so many big, big mountains, ocean, and they are floating in the air. We can create limited things, but He can create unlimited things. Therefore we have got our limited brain, and He has got unlimited brain. Is that correct?
Prabhupāda: This has been... Body has been described as the dress. So the form of the dress cannot be there unless there is form of the person who puts on the dress. How can you deny it? Because the dress has got form, the person who puts on the dress must have form. How can you deny this argument? You cannot say "formless." It may be, you cannot see it. That is different thing. But it must be form and individual. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that Kṛṣṇa says, "Arjuna, you and Me and all these persons who are here, they were existing like that in the past, they are now existing, and they will exist in the same way." Therefore all are individual.
Yoga student: With Kṛṣṇa can one say that Kṛṣṇa is the form that presents itself, of Godhead, which presents itself to man, and Bhagavān is the essential aspect?
Prabhupāda: Bhagavān? Yes, in the original.
Prabhupāda: The perfect knowledge is already there. And supported by the ācāryas. And we are simply submitting that "This is Kṛṣṇa. This is God." That's all. All over the world we are placing this statement that "Here is Bhagavad-gītā, and Kṛṣṇa spoke. He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is like this. He is the original source of everything." Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ: (BG 10.8) "I am the origin of everything." And Kṛṣṇa also says, "After many, many births one come to this understanding that vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti: (BG 7.19) 'Vasudeva is everything.' " Kṛṣṇa says, "I am everything." And when one understands that Kṛṣṇa is everything, sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ, that mahātmā is very rare. So my point is that simply replacing... not replacing, submitting the same statement as the great saintly person, ācāryas have accepted, we are getting the result very nice, instead of theorizing in my own way, although it is not very difficult. Kṛṣṇa says that "You always think of Me," man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. So we are teaching people the same way, that "You always think of Kṛṣṇa. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." That is thinking of Kṛṣṇa. So that is being effective. We are getting good result all over the world. Anyone who is thinking of Kṛṣṇa, he is becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, fully convinced, dedicating his life for Kṛṣṇa.
Guest: Do you know, sir, that it is exactly the same way of thinking which we have in our people who believe to Muhammad? They think that the teaching of Muhammad is the most superior one. And others... Of course, Muslims do believe to others' religions, to Moses, to Christ, and so on. They have the same way of thinking. They think that they are elementary stages...
Prabhupāda: The point is... Yes.
Guest: ...and Muhammad's teaching is supposed to be the superior one. So everybody thinks that his way or his way of thinking, his theory, his religion is the most superior one.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is all right. If you accept progress... Just like you are seeing the sun, I am also seeing the sun, the boy is also seeing the sun, but the understanding of the sun may be different. Everyone is seeing the sun. The objective is the same. But a child's understanding of sun and an elderly man's understanding of sun, a scientist's understanding of sun, or one man who has actually gone to the sun planet, there are different categories. Do you accept or not? The sun is there. God is accepted in every scripture. That is a fact. But in the same way, how far He is understood, that is different. That is different. The same example, that everyone is seeing sun: "Here is sun," there is no doubt. But a child's understanding of sun, his father's understanding of sun, or a scientist's understanding of sun, or a person who has gone to the sun planet, his understanding of sun is different. The objective is the same. And everyone is right.
Prabhupāda: Everything exists. For the time being, he may merge; then again he'll come to enjoy this material body. Āruhya kṛccheṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ. Patanty adhaḥ. Even they become merged into the existence of Brahman, again they come back because there is no āśraya. Just like these air, airplanes or the jets. They have invented very good machine, eighteen thousand miles per hour, going very high, but there is no place. They come down again. That is a fact. What is the use of going so high, eighteen thousand miles per hour, and travel and then again come back. Why do you take unnecessary trouble if you cannot stay there? You migrated from Europe and other countries to America. You got shelter. You stayed there. That colonization was successful. But if you are going to colonize in the moon and there is no place to stay, then why you are spending so much money unnecessarily? What is this foolishness? And they have stopped now. So in this way they are trying to merge into the Brahman effulgence, but where to stay? They can stay in the Brahman effulgence as minute particle of soul, but the soul wants ananda, then again—"It was better to live in the material world." They come back again. That is statement of the śāstra. Āruhya kṛccheṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ. They may go very high, same way as the jets are going, but there is no shelter. Shelter is the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: If you give up this varṇāśrama-dharma, then where is your bhāratīya sanskṛiti? But they are trying to give it up, abolish this. Then where is bhāratīya sanskṛiti? Then?
Brahmānanda: "Six: Injunctions of śāstras regarding charity and how it should be practiced in the present conditions. So the mutual relationship of dharma and politics in the light of our history and tradition can only be revived when we observe the system of varṇāśrama. It is actually like this: the brāhmaṇa is like the head, and the kṣatriya is like the arms, the vaiśya is the stomach or the abdomen, and the śūdra is like the legs. Similarly, spiritually, the brahmacārī is the trained-up disciple, the gṛhastha is the trained-up householder, the vānaprastha is experienced as a retired gentleman, and the sannyāsī is completely in the renounced order of life for spiritual advancement. There is no question of the head being in an exalted position without the cooperation of the leg. When there is a pin-prick in some part of the leg, the head immediately takes it very seriously and takes out the thorn in some part of the leg. Similarly, whenever there is some outside attack, the arms or the hands spread to protect the whole body. In the same way, within the abdomen there is the machinery of digesting foodstuffs, and after digestion the secretion turns into blood and it is infused throughout the whole anatomical structure of the body. Similarly, the cooperation between the head, arms, stomach and legs is the perfect situation of the human society."
Justin Murphy: The Roman Catholics are a jealous people. Roman Catholics are jealous religious people. They refuse even still to accept, for example, that Anglicans pray in the same way as they do. They refuse to accept that Anglicans pray as well as they do.
Prabhupāda: No, one thing is that may be Anglican, may be Roman Catholics, may be Christian, may be Hindu or Muslim or anyone. Whether they have God in their conception of religion or not. Do they have God or no God?
Justin Murphy: Well they all have. They must have, to be a religion.
Prabhupāda: So I am asking that "You chant the holy name of God. If you have God, you chant the holy name of that God." I don't say that "You chant the holy name of my God." You chant the holy name of your God. God is one. Just like water. Somebody says "water," somebody says "pāni," somebody says "jala," but the end is, the aim is, water. Similarly, God... I may say "Kṛṣṇa," you may say "Jehovah," the Muslims may say "Allah," or others may say something else, but the aim is God.
Upendra: No, but this is... Dharmādhyakṣa was... He did it. The same result, they have to act the same way. They have to chant their japa nicely. And then the transcendental meditationist will meditate his way. But the results are coming out better in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Dharmādhyakṣa, at least, and Guru dāsa said so I'm not sure. It hasn't been working yet.
Prabhupāda: In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that beyond the senses, the mind is there. Beyond the mind, the intelligence is there. Beyond the intelligence, the soul is there. So they are studying the mind. They are not even on the intelligence platform, and what to speak of spiritual platform? Mano-rathena asato dhavato, bahiḥ. These rascals, those who are on the mental plane, they will remain materialists. That's all. They will not know, understand anything spiritual.
Prabhupāda: Every śloka we are describing word to word. So every śloka you will find new idea, new idea. There are 18,000 verses.
Prof. Hopkins: (laughs) I would react the same way if anyone asked me a question like that. But you've... In the beginning of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you did discuss the general story(?).
Prabhupāda: Oh yes, you have not seen it?
Prof. Hopkins: Yes, I've seen it. I'm just wondering what your judgment is on what... If you had to say to someone who was going to collect one small section of your work, what would you want them to collect?
Prabhupāda: That is stated in few verses, you find out this. Dharmasya hy āpavargyasya (SB 1.2.9).
Prabhupāda: Then you must suffer. There is no question, "maybe."
Devotee (5): When we fell down we were thinking, we could enjoy like that, in the same way?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is foolishness. And we are making our plan how to enjoy. That is our foolishness. And Kṛṣṇa says "You give up all these nonsense plans. Come to Me."
Devotee (5): Is this example proper, that a son is being well taken care of by the father, but sometimes he's thinking, "I can enjoy more some other way?"
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, can I change the topic? Last, day before yesterday, morning, Prabhupāda said that plants are more highly developed than the fish or the aquatics. But someone may ask what about the dolphins and the seals. They are regarded as very intelligent and highly developed.
Prabhupāda: Every living entity has a particular type of intelligence which is greater than the other.
Citsukhānanda: They have one church here, Prabhupāda. It is Mormon church. It is not too far from here. It is very gigantic, and it's on a hill. And every Sunday they get maybe five to six thousand guests because they have spent great money on a big complex. They have a library, museum and church. This is... We could also do this sometime, make one nice Indian temple. Thousands of visitors would come, even just tourists, from all over the world. They could probably come the same way. Ours would be much better, though.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Very good idea. (break) ...also very nice.
Bahulāśva: The lake?
Prabhupāda: Hm. Due to that lake. (break)
Bahulāśva: ...but no one can swim.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Prabhupāda: Just we are doing so many places. So you produce your own food grains, not for making money but just for feeding yourself and the animals, cows. Keep cows, as many cows as possible, and produce, till the ground, field, and make water supply arrangement. If the investment is required, we shall do that. You have no worry about investment. We shall bring money from anywhere. But the work must be done very nicely. There must be good arrangement for water supply and for plowing and keeping the cows in order. Then you get sufficient milk, sufficient food grains and produce your own cloth. The girls and ladies, they can spine (spin) thread, and from the thread you make cloth, handlooms. So your first necessities of life, eating, and make little cottage, sleeping... And if you want sex, get yourself married, live peacefully. And when you are there you can defend yourself. So the first necessity is how to eat and how to cover. That you have to provide. That is not difficult. You can do it. And then you become peaceful, no anxiety for your maintenance. And then cultivate this spiritual knowledge the same way. Have a temple there. Have... Go on chanting, offering prasādam. You have got your food grains. Don't be dependent on anyone else. Become self-independent. And don't be after money. Simply produce your bare necessities of life. Keep yourself fit, strong. And chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, read book. Then you'll grow strong. Is there any difficulty?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Nectar of Devotion and the Śrī Īśopaniṣad. These books are actually being used in undergraduate courses. These are some of the recommendations, see, offered as an undergraduate course. Mostly... This book is very, very interesting, this, "the complete science of bhakti-yoga." This explains scientifically the science of devotional service to God. That devotional service which is not practiced with reference to the Vedic literatures is simply a disturbance, just as if some chemist walked into an English laboratory or some foreign language laboratory and tried to do something, and he had no knowledge. So the same way, we should try to understand the science of devotional service from the authorities, so that it's not just...it doesn't become simply a disturbance in society. People lose faith in God that way. Śrī Īśopaniṣad also has the same format once again. The Sanskrit, transliteration, word for word. This is a very nice entrance book into Vedic understanding. This is the most important of the Upaniṣads. Many other books we have like that, paperbacks and hardbound. This is being used in many universities in America.
Prabhupāda: Temple University, it is a study book.
Prabhupāda: First of all let them prove their theory. Then we shall prove ours. We are proving. We have got our own way. But why they are speaking all this nonsense? First of all let him prove that he is genuine. Then our turn will be next. Ours is very easy. Kṛṣṇa said to sun-god, and sun-god said to his son, his son, his son. It is coming like that. Where is the difficulty? Again Kṛṣṇa says, "Now it is mismanaged. It is lost, so I am saying again to you Arjuna." So what Arjuna has understood, we are understanding the same way. How Arjuna understood it, that is written in the Bhagavad-gītā. Where is the… We have no difficulty. But you jump over: "There is link," that "Once only from monkey came." What is this nonsense? We have to believe this? Has it any sense? And because Mr. Darwin is speaking we have to accept it?
Prabhupāda: First of all you have your place; then make dolls. But dolls should not be exactly like this, in the same way. But when you make actually, then I will give you how the models should be made. Now, how to do, where to do, that, it is your business. You decide, some of yourself, and do the needful. You have not yet done any plan for the big temple?
Saurabha: I have been asking Jayapataka for about one year to please send me some plan of the land so that I can place all these buildings, because there is no...
Bhāgavata: The blueprints are done. Jayapataka is revising them now. They are in māyāpur. He is reviewing all the blueprints. They are all done. And when they are finished... When he finishes reviewing them, then we'll have them sent here immediately. I just sent them to māyāpur.
Saurabha: As soon as I get the plans, I will make immediately, finish everything. We can make a master plan for the whole situation.
Prabhupāda: So ask him to send immediately site plan and begin.
Prabhupāda: There is no method. Only method-bhaktya mam abhijanati (BG 18.55). That is method. All rascals. All rascals. Yes, all rascals.
Dr. Patel: No, sir. The Christians, they go to the temple to worship God in the same way.
Prabhupāda: No, I don't say Christian and Hindus, Muslims. Anyone who is not a bhakta, he is a rascal. That's all. That is our conclusion. Therefore we say all rascals. Muḍḥa. Kṛṣṇa says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). Why should we experiment other than that?
Dr. Patel: But that is the way of bhakti, sir. My contention is this, with all my...
Prabhupāda: You cannot make.
Prabhupāda: If they are misguided, how they are scientists?
Dr. Patel: But we have all learned in the same schools of science, he, I and the rest, also scientists, here. We have learned the same way the science. But it all depends upon how he grasps it, how he thinks about it, how he understands it.
Prabhupāda: So that we can understand, that he is grasping like a fool. Therefore we call them "fools, rascals." There was a newspaper interview with a so-called scientist.
Dr. Patel: The great-grandfather of modern science, Einstein, did he not believe in God? He made darśana of God everywhere. Even in explosion of atom he saw it. Even in his theory of relativity, he finally said it was wrong. "All things are relative to God." That is what he said. And I don't think there is a greater scientist than Einstein in the modern times.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Harikeśa: So, in a...
Prabhupāda: Exactly the same way. In the factory there is big fire and there are workers also.
Harikeśa: But the life is the workers not the fire.
Prabhupāda: No. I mean to say, in the midst of fire, the living entity can live. That is my argument.
Akṣayānanda: But they can't jump in the fire and live. They will die.
Prabhupāda: No. That is material body. Spiritual... In the Bhagavad-gītā there is, (it says that) it does not burn into fire, in the fire. Adāhyaḥ, adāhyaḥ. So living entity is never burnt. Even if he's in the fire. So he may have a body of fire but he does not burn.
Akṣayānanda: But why should we accept that, because to make our factory we did not need Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
| Page Title: | In the same way (Conversations 1967 - 1975) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 10 of Nov, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=65, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 65 |