In the name of... (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 4.13.48 to SB 4.14.11 -- January 18, 1972, Jaipur:
Prabhupāda: So therefore, a saintly person duty is to protect the praja, the citizens, in a system so that they may become happy both materially and spiritually. This is one of the duties of the saintly person. Not that let me go to Himalaya and press my nose and I become liberated. This is not saintly person. This is not saintly person. Saintly person means they should be interested with the public welfare, real public welfare. And public welfare means every citizens should be Kṛṣṇa conscious, and then they will be happy both materially and spiritually. My point is that our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not selfish movement. It is the most philanthropic movement. But people in the name of philanthropic movement generally, because they are not actually saintly persons, they collect money and live.
Room Conversation -- March 12, 1972, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: Yes, just see. (guest laughs) Just like Nehru bribed one Mukerjee, Rādhā-kuṇḍa Mukerjee, doctor, to write book where he has supported cow slaughter.
Dr. Kapoor: He supported. Hmm, hmm.
Guru dāsa: If I was the Western government and you handed the most perfect knowledge to me, I would knight you also, in the name of myself. Certainly I would knight you.
Prabhupāda: So Rādhā-kuṇḍa Mukerjee, he has supported cow slaughter. He was given a post, made a parliament member first of all. So this poor man, five hundred rupees per month, he accepted. Then he induced that "You take more money, write like this." So if you pay money... British government's whole policy was that if the Indians are kept strict Hindus, it is next to impossible to govern them. So therefore they adopted this policy. They changed the whole policy how the Hindu will think everything mentioned in the śāstra is nonsense. They have trained up, and Nehru is the first-class trainee. Everything mentioned in the śāstra, the Arya-samaj, they also wrote Saptartha (indistinct), so many. And Dr. Radhakrishnan also. All the scholars, they would never mention any śāstra more than once within one thousand years.
Interview with the New York Times -- September 2, 1972, New Vrindaban:
Prabhupāda: If one gets a diamond, he possesses something valuable. But in this civilization you are simply making plastic plates and plastic cups. Indeed, in Japan I have seen pasteboard homes. And everyone is thinking that he is advanced. Formerly people used to have golden and silver utensils, but now they have plastic ones, and still they are very proud to be so materially advanced. What is your position? You have a bunch of paper and think, "I am a millionaire." What is the value of that paper? Is that not cheating? However, if we possess gold or diamonds worth a million dollars, that is actual wealth. But we are educated in such a way that we think we are millionaires by paper only. As soon as there is some catastrophe, millions of such dollars could not buy bread. This actually happened in Germany; millions of marks could not purchase one piece of bread. All this is going on in the name of advancement of civilization, and the real purpose of life, God consciousness, is missing. So every thoughtful man should come forward to understand this movement and take it seriously. Why are the people being misled? We just have to try to understand this philosophy, the basic principles of God consciousness.
Morning Walks -- October 1-3, 1972, Los Angeles:
Jayatīrtha: In the Vedānta Society temple in Santa Barbara, they were offering chicken soup...
Prabhupāda: Prasādam.
Jayatīrtha: ...to the Goddess Kālī an offering, and then they were distributing it as prasādam.
Prabhupāda: In the name of Vedānta.
Jayatīrtha: Vedānta means the goal of knowledge, but they are making an end of knowledge. Keśava went to Santa Barbara last night to finish up some last minute business he had there, but now he's back and he is resting.
Prabhupāda: So he is prepared to go to London?
Jayatīrtha: He seems anxious to go, yes.
Prabhupāda: That's good. Why Śyāmasundara does not return?
Jayatīrtha: He's here. He's also asleep. He came in the middle of the night, two or three o'clock in the morning.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Jayatīrtha: (indistinct) is in charge of our traveling saṅkīrtana party, so he's back here for a few days. They're going around to all the fairs, state fairs, county fairs, and distributing literature. He's had very great success
Prabhupāda: Indians are coming in Europe and America to learn technology, but next generation will come here to learn spiritual science, to seek brāhmaṇas. What do you think?
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:
Buddhist Monk (1): (laughs) Live and let live. That's what I have been asking people wherever I go. They talk of culture, civilization, progress, development, living standards, education, equality, freedom, lots of things. I asked them to define this, and I asked them, "The animals are of two types: the carnivorous and the vegetarian. Of course, the carnivorous looks even fiercer. But where has one found in the forest so many thousands of animals slaughtered and lying at random? But man today, in the name of progress and civilization..."
Prabhupāda: Very, very good. Yes.
Buddhist Monk (1): Yeah. So they have gone, according to me, lower than our animal brothers.
Prabhupāda: Certainly, certainly. Your argument is very good.
Buddhist Monk (1): Of course, it's very very...
Prabhupāda: In the forest, there is no slaughterhouse, although they are carnivorous animals.
Buddhist Monk (1): Is the only way.
Prabhupāda: So actually in India the meat-eaters were always, but there was no slaughterhouse. The meat-eaters, they were allowed that "You can sacrifice one goat before the goddess Kālī and eat it." That means once in a month, restriction. And individual person... But no slaughterhouse. What is this nonsense, slaughterhouse? Big, big slaughterhouse. Trade with slaughterhouse. This is the... Even, even in India during Mohammedan period, there was no slaughterhouse. Individual, if he liked, he can kill one animal and eat. No slaughterhouse.
Morning Walk -- August 30, 1973, London:
David Lawrence: ...the true meaning of them.
Prabhupāda: In the gopīs' love with Kṛṣṇa, there is no lust. That is the difference.
David Lawrence: Reverence isn't it, reverence for Him.
Prabhupāda: Here, the so-called love is lust only. It is going on in the name of love. Actually it is not love. And because it is not love, therefore such kind of love does not continue very long. It breaks.
David Lawrence: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But we don't find in the history of spiritual world the love between the gopīs and Kṛṣṇa broke at any time. That is the difference.
David Lawrence: Yes,yes. Whereas one in three of the Western marriages, so they say, is destined to break.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
David Lawrence: That's what they say now, one in three. It's the latest figures.
Prabhupāda: The same thing is there, but they are dragging this lusty affairs to Kṛṣṇa. Generally, the rascals, they paint Kṛṣṇa's picture with gopīs so that their lusty activities may be supported—Kṛṣṇa also had like that. This is misunderstanding. They do not take into calculation: Here, so-called love is lust and it breaks. But in the gopīs' love with Kṛṣṇa there is no breaking but increasing of love. So how they can compare Kṛṣṇa's love with gopīs with these lusty affairs?
Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:
Ambassador: No, that's true.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you are Muslim, and, it is my duty as government to see that you are actually acting as a Muslim. If you are a Hindu, it is the government's duty to see that you are acting as a Hindu. If you are a Christian, it is the government's duty. You cannot give up religion. Dharmena hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. If people become irreligious in the name of secularism, then they are simply animals. So it is the government's duty to see that the citizens are not becoming animals. He may profess a type of religion. That doesn't matter. But he must be religious. That is secular state. Not that secular state means government is callous, "Let the people become cats and dogs, without religion. Government doesn't care." That is not good government. What do you think?
Ambassador: I think, Your Eminence, there's a lot in what you say, but, you know, politics is the art of the possible.
Prabhupāda: No. No, politics means to see that people are advanced, citizens are advanced, not that they are degraded.
Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: That is very dangerous. Then you will all fall down. If you make a joint mess, if you go and collect something and then eat and sleep, then everything will be... Therefore I do not want to keep separate. The temple worship means there will be regulative principles, that you will have to rise early in the morning, you have to attend class, kīrtana... These things, as soon as you give up all these things, zero. Then it will be like karmīs, as they are, hard labor, collecting money, and enjoying senses. That's all. So that is the pitfall everywhere. In the church, temple, as soon as they get some nice income, then in the name of "priest," "sādhu," "sannyāsī," they do the same thing. Therefore Gosvāmīs, they left everything. That is the danger of viṣaya, viṣaya touch. Viṣaya chāḍiyā se rase majiyā. As soon as we give up this śravaṇam, kīrtanam, then it becomes viṣaya. Viṣaya means materialism. There is no spiritualism. Kṣurasya dhārā, kṣurasya dhārā. Kṣura means sharpened razor. If you are careful, you cleanse very nicely. If you are not careful, immediately blood. Immediately. So the spiritual life is like that. As soon as you become little inattentive, immediately māyā captures, "Yes, come on." Then everything failure.
Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is foolishness. Just like a child is playing whole day, and if you ask, "Go to school," "I don't care for future life." It is, it is just like that. It is just like that. How the guardians can tolerate that, that this rascal is going to be a fool-number-one if he's not educated? So we are guardians. We are representatives of Kṛṣṇa. We cannot see this. The rascal may say like that, but we cannot tolerate this. This is our proposition. We must see that things are going on nicely, according to the plan of God. That is our duty. The rascal may say like that. But we cannot stop there. So this is a serious movement, and you should take very seriously from all angles of vision. (pause) Just like these Africans, they stopped my entrance. These rascals are thinking that Africa belongs to them. It is God's property. These usurpers, these rogues and thieves, a few Africans, they are thinking, "It is our property." Huge state, huge land, huge food products can be produced there and utilized for the whole human society. But they are thinking, "It is my property. We shall not allow." So many wrong things are going on in the name of nationalism, in the name of scientific advancement, and people are suffering. How we can see that? Everybody has bluffed so long. Now we have to stop them. This is our movement. You should ask, theologician, the government, "What kind of trust? Is it scientific trust, or simply...?" They do not trust even in... So-called Christians, they do not trust in Jesus Christ. But they are going on as Christian, as priest. Cheating and bluffing should be stopped. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. The rascals are flourishing by cheating and bluffing. This business should be stopped. So what do you think, Karandhara Prabhu?
Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: ...two classes of men: the communist and the non-communist. Not exactly communist and capitalist, but communist and non-communist. Out of these two, the communists are going to be powerful. This is the world tendency. So if the world becomes full of communists, then the human civilization will be finished. All rogues and rascals, that's all. The American government wants to check this tendency. But they cannot check it if they remain "so-called trust in God." That will not be possible. So according to our proposition... Not only now, it is forever. Two classes of men are there: sura and asura. Surāsura. Viṣṇu-bhakto bhaved devaḥ. Deva and sura, the same thing. Asuras tad viparyayaḥ. And the asura, or the demons, godless. So if the Americans remain godless in the name of so-called trust in God, they will not be able to check this communistic movement. They will not be able. Now, if they are serious to check this communistic movement, save the American country as well as the whole world, then they must be very serious to understand what is God and what is trust in God. Otherwise this communistic movement will finish the civilized human society. So you are thoughtful. They must be very serious about it. And this is the only movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which can make all people actually trust in God and explain what is meant by God. Demons, they... If the communists are demons and the capitalists are also demons, fighting between demons, there will be war and loss of life, but nobody will come out victorious. That is going on. There is occasional world war, but the situation of the world remains the same. No party has become able to change the situation of the world. What do you think, Karandhara?
Karandhara: No, no significant change.
Prabhupāda: Simply they fight and loss of life and money, energy. War must be for the good. If there is some war, it must be for some good. But where is that goodness? The world remains the same; rather, it becomes more worst. Then why fight? But they will fight. Because both of them demons, they will fight. But not for any good result.
Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: That we shall give in the court. "First of all this man is declaring himself as God, cheating. Why he should not be stopped?" Let there be case. This should be done.
Yaśomatīnandana: Just like Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No. If the constitution is that, that in the name of religion somebody cheats, the government should take action, so here it is being done. So we have to maintain so many departments to fight with these wrongdoers. Why not make a test case that "This man is declaring himself God. How he is God? Let him prove in the court." Why not institute a case?
Umāpati: Actually, the people feel helpless. They feel there is nothing they can do anyway, about anything. That's why they are engaging so much in intoxication. They feel hopeless under this government.
Prabhupāda: That is the defect, that the government itself is imperfect. How they can check?
Umāpati: Well, they're so foolish. There was an article in the paper the other day about this shot going to Jupiter and the scientists were described, the scientists that everybody is supposed to depend upon, they were described as biting their fingernails in the hopes that everything would come out all right.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Yaśomatīnandana: They said that they were simply taking chances that it might come out all right. They were not sure themselves.
Prabhupāda: That everyone is taking chance. A poor man is taking chance to become rich man. So what is the difference between the poor man taking chance and the scientist?
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Morning Walk -- January 9, 1974, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Relativity, relativity, law of Relativity. What is, what is food for one is death for other, the same thing. So how you can say the food is good or bad? Is it not? "One man's food, another man's poison." So how you can distinguish this is food or poison? One man will say, "No, it is food." Another man will say, "It is poison." So how you'll distinguish? So this good and bad is simply mental speculation. Because it is in the material platform, there is nothing good. Everything is bad. Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). In the name of "dharma," so many rascaldom is going on. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya. It is not dharma. And Bhāgavata says, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra: (SB 1.1.2) "This cheating type of religious system is rejected from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam." All so-called religions, they're simply cheating. Cheating. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavaḥ. Kaitavaḥ means cheating. Everything is cheating. They say, "We are advancing." What you are advancing? The problem, birth-death, is there. So what is the meaning of your advancement? Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2).
Morning Walk -- January 10, 1974, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Then if he cannot, then he is cat and dog. He is not a human being. Why he should accept initiation? Let him remain a cat and dog. He promises to follow, and if he cannot follow, then he is nothing but cat and dog. In the court, they take promises, that "In the name of God," "In the name of Bible." So that means he will speak the truth. Similarly, before the fire, before Deity, before guru, before devotees, he is promising something, and if he does not follow, then he is cat and dog. He cannot advance. It is not possible. That is the distinction between cat and dog and human being. Cat and dog, they cannot promise. It is not possible. But a human being can promise. And if he keeps his promise, then he is human being. Otherwise cat and dog. Word of honor. The cats and dogs, they have no sense of honor. Either you kick him or pat, he does not know what is the difference. That is cat and dog. He does not know the distinction. A human being knows what is promise, what is word of honor.
Morning Walk -- February 22, 1974, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: But when there is remembrance of Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: That is right.
Prabhupāda: Aham. That "aham" must be there.
Dr. Patel: In the name of God, you do, and you forget that you are doing. Two things, that is yajña. That you are not the performer...
Prabhupāda: Not... No, you cannot, you cannot manufacture yajña. The yajña-vidhi is there. In the Vedas, śāstras. You cannot say that "I am doing for God. That is yajña." Yajña-vidhi. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ, na sukhaṁ sa avāpnoti (BG 16.23). He cannot get happiness if he derides śāstra, yajña-vidhi. You cannot manufacture yajña-vidhi.
Dr. Patel: Kṛṣṇa's life itself was a yajña.
Prabhupāda: No, then there was no need of Bhagavad-gītā. Anyone can manufacture his yajña.
Dr. Patel: Yajña. But the very life of Kṛṣṇa was a yajña. He said that. Ahaṁ yajñaḥ. Ahaṁ kratur aham ajyam... What is that? I forgot that...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Ahaṁ yajña, but who is following Kṛṣṇa? That is the...
Dr. Patel: He follows, you follow, I follow.
Morning Walk -- April 24, 1974, Hyderabad:
Mahāṁśa: They will...
Prabhupāda: Then they will be very much pleased. And as soon as you criticize, that "You are doing this wrong, you will suffer." "Oh, yes, this Swamiji is not (indistinct)." That is going on everywhere. In the name of religion you do all nonsense rascaldom, and the leader approves, "Yes, you can do." Vivekananda did it. "Yes, there is no difference between eating meat and not eating eat in terms of religion system." He preached this, and all the sannyāsīs of the Ramakrishna Mission they eat meat, they drink, they have woman secretary, everything. This Chinmayananda is also like that. I know his whole mischief. Unless one is purely Kṛṣṇa conscious, one cannot give up all these bad habits. This is the test. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra caiṣa (SB 11.2.42). One... Unless one is substantially advanced in kṛṣṇa-bhakti, they cannot give up this material attachment—illicit sex, meat eating—they cannot. It is impossible. So even in the name of swami or big, big yogis... They are doing all these things. Especially those who go in foreign countries... In USA illicit sex is very cheap. Everything is very cheap. Yes. Intoxication very cheap, meat-eating very cheap, gambling, very cheap, so when they get this cheap amenities, they forget their so-called spiritual life.
Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:
Prof. Regamay: But he brought to the world the ahiṁsā, but I think ahiṁsā appears already in the Bhagavad-gītā. But there was ahiṁsā also by the Jains.
Prabhupāda: Ahiṁsā, because at that time people were killing animals in the name of yajña. Just like in the Christian world the order is not to kill, but still, they are killing. So this misuse of scriptural injunction is always going on. A class of men there are who abuse the scriptural injunctions and go on with their own motive. So there was a period when people, under the protection of Vedas... Because Vedas, animal sacrifice is recommended for certain purpose, to test the proper chanting of Vedic mantras. The animal was not killed. The animal was put into the fire. Then again it would come out with new life. That is the proper chanting of the Vedic mantras. So for that purpose, animal sacrifice... Just like in biological laboratories, they experiment on the body of animals, frogs, guinea pigs. Similarly, a similar experiment was made, how the Vedic mantra is being properly chanted. The test was that animal should be put into the fire, and if the Vedic mantras were properly being chanted, then that animal would come with a new body. So an old cow or bull was put and he would come with fresh body. That was the purpose. Now later on, they began to eat meat by so-called animal sacrifice. In that period Lord Buddha appeared. About him it is, description is there, sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. The Lord became compassionate on the animals, as they were being killed unnecessarily. So Buddha, Lord Buddha, his only mission was to stop the sinful activities of animal... Ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ. He was teaching that. But these rascals, they would show the evidence... Just like Christians says that "Lord Jesus Christ ate fish" or something like that. Because Lord Jesus Christ ate fish, therefore they should maintain slaughterhouse. This is their reasoning.
Morning Walk -- June 12, 1974, Paris:
Paramahaṁsa: If God is all-good, why does He permit so many wars to go on?
Prabhupāda: Because you want to be finished. You create war to be finished. God does not create. Just like you have created this weapon. In the name of finishing your enemy, you'll be finished, also. Is that very good credit? And God has created like that? You have created. Why don't you understand this?
Yogeśvara: Well, why has God permitted me to do such a horrible thing?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is your little independence. God does not want to touch any... By your independence, go to hell or go to heaven. That's your choice. God says that "Don't use your independence by malpractice." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām... (BG 18.66). God, that is God's statement. "You surrender to Me. I'll guide you." But if you misuse your independence, that's your business. You go to hell or heaven. That's your business. (pause)
Bhagavān: Where do we go now?
Paramahaṁsa: The car will be waiting for us down there.
Bhagavān: You're going to get it right now?
Paramahaṁsa: Yes.
Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:
Vedavyāsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the Bible there are a lot of statements regarding chanting, instructions that people should chant the holy name of God. Like in the Old Testament it says from the morning to evening you should chant the holy name of God.
Prabhupāda;: Yes. That is the business in this age. Chant the holy name of God.
Professor Durckheim: Whatever you do, do in the name of Jesus Christ, the Bible...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. You take this in the name of Jesus Christ.
Haṁsadūta: Prabhupāda, would you like to take your prasādam now?
Prabhupāda: Not now. Later. The simplest method-chant the holy name of the Lord. That's all.
Prof. Pater Porsch: Should this chanting be loud? Or can it also be half loud, whisper or silently, mentally? Does it play any difference? Does it make any difference?
Prabhupāda: If you chant loudly then others can hear. They also take benefit.
Vedavyāsa: Should we translate?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Vedavyāsa: Should we translate?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (German) Even the birds and beasts they will hear and be benefited. (German) Therefore loud chanting is recommended. So that even the birds, beasts, trees, plants, they can hear.
Room Conversation -- June 20, 1974, Germany:
Devotee: Religious is automatically regulated sex life?
Prabhupāda: If it is religious life. If in the name of religion it is sinful life, that is another thing. Alright Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. samaḥ sarveṣu, mad-bhaktiṁ labhate. That is the stage of making advancement in devotional life. Equality. Equality is possible when we are on the platform of spiritual life. Otherwise the United Nations will never be able to unite. That is not possible. (indistinct) If they unite, if they try to unite on Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then. Otherwise.... We are all part and parcel of God. Somehow or other we are all differently dressed, although we are one. (indistinct) Now just like you are Canadian, I am Indian. (indistinct). There are crows, there are pigeons, there are sparrows (indistinct). Why they are not quarreling? Simply you are designated European, Indian and Canadian, German, so we have to give up this designation. Then they will be united. Otherwise, but they are very much proud of these designations. Therefore, bhakti means sarvopādhi vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). When one is completely free from designation. The designation is (indistinct). And the whole world is being ruled by designation, "I am Indian", (indistinct). Ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8).
Room Conversation -- June 20, 1974, Germany:
Prabhupāda: Vṛndāvana.
Guest: ...temple.
Prabhupāda: In Vṛndāvana still there is little glimpse of spiritual idea, but the government is trying to spoil this place also, starting oil refinery.
Guest: In Vṛndāvana? And that in the name of progress. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: They have already opened some factories. One factory is near (indistinct)
Devotee: Cannery.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Devotee: Cannery.
Prabhupāda: Cannery? Anyway, when they boil this onion, up to ten miles the good smell is (indistinct). (laughter) And the whole atmosphere is (indistinct) Similarly, they are trying to refine oil and the refuse will be thrown in the Yamunā and the River Yamunā will be spoiled, nobody will go there. (indistinct) They think that these so-called spiritual fanaticism of India is the cause of India's material deficiencies.
Morning Walk -- July 9, 1974, Los Angeles:
Kṛṣṇa-kānti: We must present a better civilization.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not better or best. The civilization. Everything is all false, cheating. Everything, everything is cheating. Without this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all other consciousness, they're simply cheating. That is called māyā, illusion. If you remain in any other consciousness except Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that means you are in illusion. You are misguided. That is explained in the second verse of the First Canto. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ vāstava vastu vedyam atra: (SB 1.1.2) All kinds of cheating religious system is kicked out." That is the second verse. Projjhita, completely cleansed of all cheating type of religion. This, this has been translated into Bengali by these words,
- pṛthivīte yāha kichu dharma nāme cale
- bhāgavata kāhe taha paripūrṇa chale
Whatever is going on throughout the whole world in the name of religion, Bhāgavata, according to Bhāgavata, they're all cheating. They're all cheating. Bhāgavata kāhe taha paripūrṇa chale. Chale means cheating.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:
Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying that in European history many, many people, in the name of looking for transcendence, there have been so many wars, hatred between men, and, you may know, in Spain they had what is called the Inquisition where they burned so many people. And so he's saying, psychologically, that his brain tells him that in the name of searching after transcendence there has been so much bad, so how is this different?
Prabhupāda: The difference is transcendence is beyond our mind, bodily activities, mental activities or intelligence. The European philosophers and transcendentalists, they do not know actually what is transcendence. They understand that there is something, but they do not know what it is. Therefore they speculate by their imperfect senses. Gradually it becomes craziness. Therefore you find that defect.
Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:
Rūpānuga: It was their idea. In a book like this there has to be some social conclusion as to the effects of such atheistic theories.
Prabhupāda: Yes, the people are being misguided. That we want to stop. They have got this human form of body, that is an opportunity to understand himself and God and act accordingly. Now they are being misled. It is a social disservice. Cheating. In the name of scientist, they are exploiting this innocent person, taking their money and spoiling it without any good result.
Rūpānuga: My idea is that they are... Actually the scientists are preaching void. They are preaching to the people...
Prabhupāda: But what is the necessity of preaching void? Void is void, that's all.
Rūpānuga: There's nothing to say about that. But because they're saying that, the people think that at the time of death there's nothing, so they want sense gratification. So the scientists are selling them their gadgets. They're selling them cars and things to keep them in sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: We can see when a man is in coma, he cries, he suffers. Before death when a man is in coma sometimes tears come. Now why he says there is nothing? Imperfect knowledge, that's all. Misguiding people.
Morning Walk -- March 4, 1975, Dallas:
Prabhupāda: That means they are rascals.
Viṣṇujana: They want to gratify their senses, and they'll do anything and even misinterpret the scripture to gratify their senses.
Prabhupāda: That means a set of rascals, going on in the name of religion. So how long they can cheat others? So you can cheat all for some time, and you can cheat some for all time, but not all for all time. (laughter)
Devotee: Is it all right to... You mentioned that to work hard is like... Because we're in the material world we have to work, this is the condemnation...
Prabhupāda: No, no. You have to work, but minimize work.
Devotee: I was wondering if it was all right to work hard for Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. To minimize this material work means the energy should be employed for Kṛṣṇa. Minimize work this, means this side, material side. And save time and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That is the principle. And if you are busy from the early morning to go to the working place and up to ten o'clock, then where you get for chanting, time? So therefore you save time from material activities and engage it for advancing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is life.
Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:
Prabhupāda: In Vṛndāvana still there is little glimpse of spiritual ideas in India. But the government is trying to spoil this place also. Starting oil refinery.
Ambassador: In Vṛndāvana?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Ambassador: And that in the name of progress. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Yes. They have already opened some factory. One factory is there in Mathurā, in... What is? Who preserve the fruits in cans, what they are called?
Parivrājakācārya: Cannery.
Prabhupāda: Cannery? Anyway, so when they boil this onion, up to ten miles the good smell spread. (laughter) You see? And the whole atmosphere of Vṛndāvana is spoiled. Similarly, they are trying to refine oil, and the refuse will be thrown in the Yamunā. So the river Yamunā will be spoiled. Nobody will go to take bath. This is Indian government's policy. They think that this so-called spiritual fanaticism of India is the cause of India's material degradation. So this must be killed. Like the Russians.
Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:
Prabhupāda: No, therefore... No, therefore... Therefore we say that first of all you understand Kṛṣṇa of Bhagavad-gītā. That is the ABCD of Kṛṣṇa. Then you go to Bhāgavatam.
Dr. Movebhed: I feel... If I am not wrong, I feel that what others have done, that Mahatma Gandhi, Dr. Radhakrishnan, etc., etc., they have taught that Kṛṣṇa of Bhagavad-gītā is very much important for us. Whether He was living or whether He did not live, or anything which was in the name of Kṛṣṇa, that is quite (sic:) impertinent. We want to have the philosophy of Kṛṣṇa as enunciated in Bhagavad-gītā, is just enough to tell others who are in need of...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But if you do not believe in that person, how do you understand his philosophy?
Dr. Movebhed: That's where... I think I may be wrong. Please correct me if I go wrong. That's where people have taken little, two to three steps, as my friend has told, first advaita. She wanted to have two...
Prabhupāda: No, no, why advaita, dvaita? First of all you take the preliminary things, that you are accepting the philosophy of Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavad-gītā, but you have no knowledge of the person who has spoken Bhagavad-gītā. Then where is your understanding? You do not understand the person who has spoken the Bhagavad-gītā. Then what is the meaning of your understanding Bhagavad-gītā?
Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:
Prabhupāda: (Aside to devotee:) You come here. I do not follow the accent, you hear and tell.
Guest: What would be important was Kṛṣṇa teachings. One must, could not be confined to any one period of time. He is incarnation of God and somebody who was talking for the truth and in the name of the truth, and... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...fact is that if you have got different views about Kṛṣṇa, then you cannot prove that from the Bhagavad-gītā. That you cannot prove. If you take Bhagavad-gītā, then you must present it as it is. Don't distort it. You may have got some idea, but you explain that idea in your different book. But don't place it as the explanation of Bhagavad-gītā. That is not very good. If you have got different theory, you can write in a different book. But we cannot permit or do not like that as the commentary of Bhagavad-gītā you will place something different. That is not very honest. You put your own theory. Why should you try to put your theory through Bhagavad-gītā? That we protest. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly said that "There is no superior authority than Me." Therefore He is the God. Mām eva ya prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8): "I am the origin of everything." And if you have got different idea, that somebody else is the origin, that you can explain differently. But you cannot keep it as explanation of Bhagavad-gītā.
Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:
Prabhupāda: But that is everyone's dilemma, that "What is this power?" The scientists, the (sic:) physists, they are seeing the power. The power is working and energy is working. But how it is working, that is further enquiry.
Guest: I have three points. First of all I have nothing... I have seen nothing in Bhagavad-gītā, although it is a work of the most beautiful of all these books which are attributed to God and are supposed to be speaked in the name of God. It is one of the beautiful book among these (Parsi?). But sincerely there is nothing in Bhagavad-gītā about God which you cannot find similar passage, a passage similar to it in Koran or in other teachings. That's my first point. The second point is that if we believe to God and we believe that the God has spoken only through Bhagavad-gītā to, thus, a people who live in a given country, then we are going to have a very narrow-minded God who doesn't love all human beings...
Prabhupāda: No. No there. Here, here I impress...
Guest: He has bestowed all His love to a given people. And my third point is that if we believe God as a life force or who must be discovered by a human being and the human being who has to proceed toward this truth, then also we have no reason to confine this into one people.
Indian man: Swamiji, I may take your leave.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Why you are going soon?
Indian man: I have to go still far off.
Prabhupāda: Oh, all right. Jaya. Jaya.
Conversation with the GBC -- March 27, 1975, Mayapur:
Atreya Ṛṣi: "Ācārya and..., of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement under the banner of International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. I state that I have imposed all my faith, integrity and honesty in my aforesaid Guru Mahārāja with the result he is the sole responsible person and supreme authority of my present position and status which I have gained and I am holding in the organization of the International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. I, the said Mr. So and So, both names, do hereby swear in the name of Kṛṣṇa that I will bear true faith and alliance to the constitution, by-laws, rules, regulations and directions which," and this has been added, "which have been given, including four regulative principles..."
Madhudviṣa: They should be stated too.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Madhudviṣa: The four regulative principles should be stated.
Prabhupāda: No, that may not be. We know, everyone.
Madhudviṣa: We know it, but does someone else know it?
Prabhupāda: Is it necessary to mention?
Rūpānuga: It's a legal document also.
Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:
Acyutānanda: This story...
Prabhupāda: Now, another question, that we say that God's name and God-all-powerful. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija-sarva-śaktis tatrārpitā: "In the name of God, all God's potencies are there." So have you got any name like that? That means if you chant that name, you get immediately contact with God.
Ravīndra-svarūpa: That idea is put forth in the Psalms repeatedly. It says, "Sing the names of the Lord with high-sounding cymbals, with drums." It says in one place that "The name of the Lord is exalted even beyond heaven."
Trivikrama: "Hallowed by Thy name." There's a prayer.
Prabhupāda: That... What is that name?
Ravīndra-svarūpa: They don't... The Christians... It says, "Sing the name of God," but they don't do that.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But if you have to chant name... Just like we prescribe, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa," so what is the name they recommend to chant?
Prajāpati: Adonai.
Morning Walk -- May 9, 1975, Perth:
Jayadharma: Does that mean that the people that catch the fish have to also become fish?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. And who will become fish? That they do not know, how the transmigration of the soul is going on. They cannot explain wherefrom the fish are coming, wherefrom the trees are coming. Everything in darkness. And this civilization, this dark civilization, is going on, in the name of civilization. They cannot explain what is death, what is next life. Sometimes they say, "It is nature," but how nature is working they do not know. All darkness, mūḍhā na abhijānāti, mām ebhyaḥ parama. The birds and beasts are also catching fish, and they are also catching. What is the difference? What is the difference? They have got this nice human body, and they are acting like birds and beasts. And they are kept in darkness. There is no enlightenment. This is the modern civilization. (pause) The smell. What is the smell?
Amogha: If we go up there, I don't think it will be there.
Prabhupāda: Some decomposed things? And this is not good for you. (pause) They fish this side?
Amogha: The birds? Seagulls.
Prabhupāda: He has got the human body. He also... These birds are catching fish. He does not know that he has got other business.
Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:
Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless you have got the necessary intellect, then you are no better than the animals. The animals have no intellect to understand God, but the human being has got that intellect. That is the distinction between animal and human being. (break) Sleeping, the human being also sleeps; they also sleep. Then sex enjoyment: the human being also enjoy, and the animals also enjoy. And protection from fear or becoming fearful—the human being is also fearful and arranges for protection, and the animal also does. So far the primary necessities of life, that is equal in animal and human being. But the human being has a special intellect developed than the animals that he can understand what he is, what is God, what is this cosmic manifestation, and what is the aim of life, how we should conduct. These things are prerogatives for the human being. The animals have no such prerogative. So if we do not utilize these special intellectual activities, then we remain animal. We do not make any development. So at the present moment they are improving the method of primary necessities of life—eating, sleeping, mating and defending. They are thinking the dog is eating on the floor; if we can eat on table, chair and nice dish, that is advancement of civilization. They are thinking like that. The dog is sleeping on the floor, and if we sleep in very nice apartment, very decorated, that is advancement of civilization. The dog is having sexual intercourse on the street without any shame, and we are also coming to that point already. And if we have sex intercourse in the name of love and so on, so on, that is advancement. And dog is defending with his jaws and nails and teeth, you are defending with atomic bomb, therefore we are advanced. But they have forgotten that the human being has got this special intellect to understand God. That they are not doing. Just like you are going to be a doctor in anthropology. Is it not?
Morning Walk -- May 11, 1975, Perth:
Prabhupāda: Yes, the chief man. So the guru is there. He is the chief man, giving direction, or the captain. And others are plying, and the boat is also strong, and the wind is also favorable. In this circumstances, if you cannot cross, then you make suicide. The śāstras are there. That is favorable wind. You get the way. And the spiritual master is directing, "Do like this." And you have got a nice boat and you are plying. Now cross over. Very big ocean in the material world. Just see the sky, how big it is. So we have to cross this material sky, penetrate the covering, then go to the spiritual sky. Then you are safe. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). That place, even after destruction of this whole material world, that is safe. So we have to go there, plying the boat. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, "You rascal, give up everything. Surrender unto Me. And surrender unto Me. Follow My instruction as I have given. Then you are safe." But that they will not do. They will try to cheat Kṛṣṇa by interpretation, "This means this. This means that." That they will do, these rascals, big, big rascals. Kṛṣṇa says something, and they will misinterpret. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto, and Dr. Radhakrishnan says, "No, no, it is not to the Kṛṣṇa person." Just see how misleading these rascals. Why you should interpret upon Kṛṣṇa's word? If you have got your own philosophy, you write another book. Why do you touch Bhagavad-gītā? This is their cheating. Bhagavad-gītā is a popular book. Gandhi also took Bhagavad-gītā for his political diplomacy. This is going on. And they'll never agree to accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is. They'll never agree. The other day I was there in Kurukṣetra. They have got their own plan-mānava-dharma, this dharma, that dharma. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya: (BG 18.66) "You give up all these. Kick out all this so-called rascaldom. You just surrender unto Me." That they will not do. Except this, everything which is going on in the name of religion, that is cheating. Everyone is misinterpret... Just like Christians, they have misinterpreted: "Kill means murder. It is meant for man." That means they are making their own lusty desires fulfilled in the name of Bible, that's all. Everyone is doing like that. They are changing. Mass opinion is now homosex. They are passing abortion. They are passing... What is this? This is their business. For fulfillment of their lusty desires and greediness, they are bringing the authority of Bible, Bhagavad-gītā. This is going on in the name of religion.
Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:
Prabhupāda: ...the animals. Take, for example, the cows. If the master is Kṛṣṇa conscious they are not killed. And if the master is a rogue, they are killed. They have no knowledge how to protect themself. They take shelter of a master. So if the master is good, then their life is safe. And if the master is rogue, then they are killed. So it requires the leader. Formerly the kings were saintly, rājarṣi. Therefore there was peace. You cannot expect the mass of people very intelligent. That is not possible. They are generally in darkness. They believe that "Somebody, this man, will give us protection." But the man is treacherous. He sits down on the post of giving protection, but he kills. This is going on. Therefore if the leaders become nice, Kṛṣṇa conscious, then everything will be all right. (break) These rogues, by force, by device, they all occupy the government post. Formerly, Vedic, the king was trained up very nicely by the brāhmaṇas, guided by the brāhmaṇas, and they would do nicely. (break) ...now thousands of kings. The president, the secretary, the minister, this senator, everyone is king. Because everyone is in the business of exploitation. That's all. Formerly there was one king. Now, in the name of democracy, there are thousands of kings. And the poor citizens, they have to satisfy all of them.
Room Conversation -- June 26, 1975, Los Angeles:
Devotee (2): Wait. I am not speaking with you. He said he did that and he did it in the name of his authority as a sannyāsa. So if you say, Prabhupāda, that everything that they say is absolutely true, then they will have absolute power and can do anything that they want, and anything that they say and any opinion they express is taken to be the same as yours, then it becomes implied that you agree with and condone such things, because they do them with absolute license. And we don't believe that to be true. So we think it is some kind of mistake.
Prabhupāda: They say like that?
Devotee (1): Everyone says like that.
Devotee (2): They do, Prabhupāda.
Satsvarūpa: No, they don't. Śrīla Prabhupāda has said these things don't apply to you. Don't worry about them because you are not following the principles.
Devotee (1): But they do say, and we are following and you don't know what we're doing, Satsvarūpa, because you haven't known me for two years. So you really don't know what I'm doing. You're not around.
Satsvarūpa: But our society is going nicely. It's not...
Devotee (2): In some respects it's going fine. But these are problems which can be dealt with amongst us, and they are affecting all of us. And for some people these are problems though they may not be for you. I think, as far as I know, your conduct has always been very honorable. But for some people who it's not and where these misconceptions apply, it's a real problem and we're trying to deal with it because it affects our lives.
Upendra: The strength to deal with those problems comes from following sādhanācāra.
Devotee (2): We are also attempting to follow sādhanācāra. And if we are imperfect...
Prabhupāda: Anyway, if he has said so, that is wrong.
Devotee (1): But is that then applying to everyone. Does someone who is in the adminis... (end)
Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:
Prabhupāda: Do you think it is very good business?
Woman: I think this is a very complicated question.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I say they are cheating you in the name of independence. That you do not understand. Therefore 34 ounce. They are cheating you, and you are thinking you are independent.
Sandy Nixon: They forget the responsibility that comes with freedom.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they do not take the responsibility. They go away. They enjoy and go away. And the woman has to take the responsibility, either kill the child or maintainer, begging. Do you think begging is very good? In India, although they are poverty-stricken, still, they do not remain independent. They remain under the husband, and the husband takes all responsibility. So she has neither to kill the child nor go to beg for maintaining the child. So which is independence? to remain under husband is independence or to become free to be enjoyed by everyone?
Sandy Nixon: That's not where the freedom is anyway.
Prabhupāda: So there is no freedom; still, they think that they have freedom. That means under some plea, the men are cheating the women, that's all. So in the name of independence, they have agreed to be cheated by another class. This is the situation.
Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:
Father: What is it that Kṛṣṇa consciousness has that offers people so much more than other religions do?
Prabhupāda: This is religion. I have already explained that religion means to become lover of God. That is religion. When there is no love of God, that is not religion. Religion means—I have already explained—to know God and to love Him. So if you do not know what is God, where is the question of loving Him? So that is not religion. It is going on in the name of religion. But religion means to know God and to love Him. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇitām (SB 6.3.19). Can you find out this verse? Give him. You don't find?
Nitai: Yes, 3.19.
Prabhupāda: Third Chapter, nineteen verse.
Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:
Prabhupāda: So this instruction is strīṣu duṣṭāsu: "When women become polluted, there is unwanted population." That is coming all over the world, the hippies. Therefore the first thing is how to train up women not to become polluted. This is the way of... In the modern society they have given women freedom. That I have already explained. In the name of freedom of woman, they are being exploited. Everything is there: social, religious, political, cultural, educational. We have to accept that course. Then everything will be all right. If you don't accept, then you have to suffer problems. It is not meant for a particular class of men or particular country, it is meant for the whole human society. Therefore, this purification of the society at the present, fallen condition is very, very difficult to revive. Because people are so fallen, it is almost impossible. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended that "You all together chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and everything will be done nicely."
Morning Walk -- July 25, 1975, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: That's nice. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order is yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Don't talk nonsense. Whomever you meet, if you want to become a leader and talk something, talk Kṛṣṇa-kathā, yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'..., what Kṛṣṇa has said. Then satisfy your ambition to become a talker. Otherwise, you rascal, remain a talker only. You talk only; you get nothing. If you want to utilize your talking power, then talk what Kṛṣṇa has instructed. Then your life will be successful. And if you talk foolishly, then you will be revealed as a rascal. Tāvac ca śobhate mūrkho yāvat kiñcin na bhāsate: "A rascal fool is so long beautiful as long he does not speak. As soon as he speaks, then he is revealed that he is a rascal." So don't talk this. Tāvac ca śobhate mūrkha. You can dress yourself, very nice gentleman. People will res...But as soon as you talk nonsense—"Oh, here is a rascal," that's all. That is going on. They are... In the name of scientist, philosopher, they are talking nonsense and exposing themselves that they are all rascals.
Room Conversation -- July 31, 1975, New Orleans:
Prabhupāda: This is our product, to produce for the animal, (indistinct). So the animal eats it and he gives you milk. He's not eating (indistinct). He gives you the nicest food, full of vitamins. And you can prepare from milk hundreds and thousands of so many palatable things. That is civilization. And this is not civilization: "Because cow is so potential, so let me eat the cow." "Guru is so sattvic, spiritual; let me eat guru. Then I will be..." (laughter) This is philosophy. Cow is so full of vitamin, valuable. But civilization is that "Why should you eat the animal? Take the milk." What is this milk? Milk is nothing but the blood. So civilization means let the cow live, and you take the milk, which is nothing but blood. When the mother feeds the child with milk, wherefrom the milk comes? Milk comes from the blood of the mother. Therefore the mother is supplied nutritious food so that she can produce milk for the child. Similarly, cow is mother. What is this philosophy, "Kill the mothers and eat?" "Kill the child and eat?" What is this nonsense? Such crude things are going on in the name of civilization. You are manufacturing billion motor cars, and you cannot manufacture your food? God has given you so much land. This is not civilization.
Morning Walk -- August 28, 1975, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: So we shall organize it very nicely.
Member: And our Mahāṁśa Swami is taking very much interest. He is often coming to Nellore. (Hindi) Last month the land was registered and the registration took place.
Brahmānanda: In the name of ISKCON?
Member: ISKCON.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. It's already done.
Prabhupāda: So in September let us go there.
Member: And in October you can see about Bālajī's festival, ten (seven?) days.
Prabhupāda: Oh. It is near?
Member: It is about eighty miles from Nellore.
Prabhupāda: Rain is coming?
Devotees: Yes. We've had a lot of rain this last year, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (Heavy wind on microphone) (Sound of heavy rain) (break)
Prabhupāda: It was raining? That's it.
Room Conversation with Bill Faill (reporter) -- October 8, 1975, Durban:
Prabhupāda: No. Meditation means this dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā, mind saturated with God consciousness and thinking of God. But if you do not know God, then where is the meditation?
Faill: So it's a long...
Prabhupāda: No, it is very nice, but at the present moment in the name of meditation, simply cheating and bluffing going on. They do not know what is the subject matter of meditation. Besides that, in this age, mind is so agitated that you cannot concentrate. I have seen the so-called meditation. They are regularly sleeping and snoring. They do not know. Yes. This is going on. So unfortunately, in the name of God consciousness or this self-realization, so many not standardized methods are being presented by the so-called bluffers without any reference to the authoritative books and knowledge, Vedic knowledge. It is another type of exploitation.
Faill: What about some of the other schools that have grown up, people like Ouspensky and Gurdjieff and people who've brought a message similar to yours to the West in the past?
Prabhupāda: What we have to study particularly whether it is standard. Otherwise they may speak so many things, but if they do not know what is the standard... Just like medical science or any science, that is one. It cannot be different because it is spoken by different men. That is not one. That is not science. "Two plus two equal to four"—this is a science that is true everywhere, not that because it is spoken by somebody else it becomes "two plus two equal to five" or "three." No.
Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :
Prabhupāda: That is another rascaldom. We see the flowers and fruits are coming every season. Why once? This dogmatic, we have to accept? Our experience is that by nature's way we find the same flower is coming again in the same season.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, actually Darwin said that there's a missing link.
Prabhupāda: You rascal, you say that. What is that missing link? Simply bluffing, and it is going on in the name of science. Just see the fun. Simply misleading, and people are so rascal, this civilized man, so-called, he is accepting as great theory.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Accepting?
Prabhupāda: This Darwin's theory as very big invention or discovery. Simply childish rascaldom. There is no reason; there is no sense. Man came from monkey—why not coming now? Stop once. So what kind of men came first?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: First there was very primitive man.
Prabhupāda: No, primitive…
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They think that he resembles a monkey very much.
Prabhupāda: So there are in Africa these men. They resemble that, what is called? That animal?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Gorilla.
Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa conscious government means Vedic government.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We have histories that for millions of years such governments were working successfully. Now, for a few thousand years, they squabble, this type of government, that type of government.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, first of all, the government is cheating. He is giving me paper in the name of money, and forcing me to accept it.
Harikeśa: That seems to be the root cause of...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Government is taking labor from you. You ask, "If you pay me three hundred dollars, then I shall work." "All right, I shall give you. Work." Then what is that three hundred? I print and pay you, and you rascal, you accept it, three hundred dollars. What is that three hundred dollars for government? Printing press. And you are so rascal, "Yes, I have got now three hundred dollars." This is going on. This is artificial inflation. Why there is inflation? Now you have got three hundred dollars without any hard labor. And when you go to purchase—I haven't got three hundred dollars; you have got—"All right, I shall pay this price." So price is increased because the seller will see: "Who pays me large price?" So you have got unnecessary money. You offer him large price. So I am poor man; I could not purchase. This is going on.
Morning Walk -- November 17, 1975, Bombay:
Dr. Patel: Because the Vedic principles were not properly understood by those people at that time.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. He directly said, "I don't care for the Vedas." Lord Buddha says. So who will worship a person who directly says, "I don't care for your Vedas"? Shall you go to worship a Buddhist or Mohammedan? No. This is emergency. Sadaya-hṛdaya-darśita paśu-ghāṭam. He cannot deride the Vedic principle, but it was necessary at the time. Otherwise these rascals will not stop.
Dr. Patel: Today, sir, the more animals are being killed than what they were killed in those days in the name of religion. Today it is in the name of the civilization
Prabhupāda: Because... No, no. Now there is no religion. "Secular." There is no religion.
Dr. Patel: Don't say no religion. Secularism is irreligious...
Prabhupāda: Secular means no religion.
Dr. Patel: Irreligious rather than. No religion is also something good. But something other than religion.
Prabhupāda: You may call anything, but there is no religion. Dharmena hina paśubhiḥ samanaḥ. They are animals, that's all. The modern civilized man is nothing but an animal-dressed animal, two-legged animal. The animals are four-legged, and these animals are two-legged, that's all. Or big animal. (break)...varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. The leaders of this modern civilization, they are being praised by other animals. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ (SB 2.3.19).
Morning Walk -- November 29, 1975, Delhi:
Prabhupāda: But nobody is coming there, here or there. They have big, big Rabindra kalā and nobody is trying to taste it.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: When they have programs, a lot of people come.
Prabhupāda: That... You make any dog dance; they will come. That is not... In the name of Rabindranath Tagore...
Harikeśa: That may even be Rabindranath Tagore dancing.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Harikeśa: When the dog is dancing, it may even be Rabindranath Tagore.
Prabhupāda: Rabindranath became very popular on account of his introducing Māghmela, where young boys and girls could easily meet. Yes. (aside:) Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Haṁsadūta: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Tejās: Their current exhibition is "Women in the World."
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) Some exhibition is going on?
Tejās: It's "Women in the World."
Morning Walk -- December 19, 1975, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: In Bombay, there are so many roads, "Vivekananda road." But there is no Kṛṣṇa Road. Hm? Who is remembering Kṛṣṇa?
Dr. Patel: There is Kṛṣṇa Art Gallery, in market. Kṛṣṇa Art Gallery. (laughing) (Hindi conversation with man about Kṛṣṇa's name) Ajāmila spoke "Nārāyaṇa." You may speak in the name of your father, that his called name. Heḥ?
Prabhupāda: That is a chance; that is not...
Man: Now the Air India's plane, they have kṛṣṇa-līlā pictures.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Man: In Air India plane.
Prabhupāda: That is sense enjoyment. Only Rādhārāṇī and Kṛṣṇa. And when Kṛṣṇa is killing Kaṁsa, that picture is.... Killing Kaṁsa, that picture you won't find. Kṛṣṇa is embracing gopīs, "Ah, that is very nice!" (laughter) Because "We are doing the same thing, we are following Kṛṣṇa." That is their purpose. They are very much fond of Kṛṣṇa's mixing with the gopīs because they get a support, that "What we are doing..."
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Nellore:
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Acyutānanda: In the Brahma-vaivarta... So a court case appeared. One man had some property in the name of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Deities. So the court said, "You only have the quota for one family." So he argued that Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa are not married; They are two separate families, so They should have double quota of land. So he won the case on that. But if somebody came from the south, he said, "No, They can be married also," he would have lost.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think, Prabhupāda, there is..., you wrote...
Acyutānanda: Brahma-vaivarta Purāṇa.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...there's a ceremony where Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa are, I think, married.
Acyutānanda: Brahma-vaivarta Purāṇa I heard, that They were married by Brahmā in secret.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...lands are being distributed.
Acyutānanda: To the bhaṅgīs.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Distributed?
Prabhupāda: These lands are being distributed?
Indian man: Distributed to the poor people. All these lands.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Legally they are being distributed?
Indian man: Yes, legally, by government.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...there any question last night? No.
Morning Walk -- January 16, 1976, Mayapur:
Jayapatāka: Generally they chant the japa till about 7:15.
Prabhupāda: And therefore everything should be.... They must give up japa; first of all clean. That is japa, first. In the name of japa and dozing and everything is unclean. This nonsense should not be allowed. Ask them, "Stop japping. First of all clean. Then japa, make japa." This is a plea, "japa."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: This is a plea, excuse.
Jayapatāka: Generally at 7:15 they start cleaning.
Prabhupāda: No, no. I see. Why it is not clean? It must have been clean. (break) (Bengali) Yes, but I don't see they are working at the gate. (break) ...theoretical.
Jayapatāka: They make every day the rice for the day.
Prabhupāda: So where they are doing? Today is no rice required?
Morning Walk -- January 16, 1976, Mayapur:
Prabhupāda: Very punctual, 7:30. Not waiting.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're chanting japa.
Prabhupāda: Who is japping? Please be careful that this idle class in the name of japa...
Jayapatāka: There's no way here.
Prabhupāda: So which way we shall go?
Jayapatāka: Back on the road again. (break) Beet vegetable.
Prabhupāda: That's all. (break) ...made. This is not washed? (Bengali) (break) This growth stopped?
Jayapatāka: Here is the handloom production.
Prabhupāda: What service they do?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What does that man do?
Bhavānanda: He weeds all of the hedges under Tapomaya.
Prabhupāda: So why they are drying? They should water it. (break) (Bengali) They are doing rightly. There are so many men. Why this should be not taken care of? (break) ...not indulge to give shelter persons—in the name of so-called japa they take advantage of free boarding and lodging. You should be very careful. Everyone should be, according to capacity, must be engaged to some work. Don't allow this stupidity. (break) ...plants are grown properly you get so many fruits. They are drying. There is so much space. You can get the sak and the fruit also.
Room Conversation -- January 16, 1976, Mayapur:
Prabhupāda: The same process is going on from the very beginning. A body is formed and it develops. The child is born.... The same process is going on. How do you say there is no soul? If there is no soul, how it has developed within the womb? Such rascals, they are passing on as big scientists. What is the reason they don't believe that there is no soul?
Harikeśa: They have really no argument.
Prabhupāda: Just see. All dogmatic. All dogmatic foolishness they are propagating, and it is going on in the name of vijñāna, science.
Hariśauri: If they admitted the existence...
Prabhupāda: Vijñāna should be enunciated, vigata-jñāna. Vigata, you understand vigata? Vigata means lost. So vijñāna, you can make two meanings. Viśiṣṭa-jñāna. Viśiṣṭa, vi means.... Viśiṣṭa means a full explained knowledge. You can make this meaning. And another meaning you can do. Vi means vigata, lost. So vigata-jñāna. Their vijñāna means vigata-jñāna, lost of all knowledge. That is the word given in Bhagavad-gītā, māyayāprahṛta-jñānaḥ. This is vijñāna. You can explain in this way also. māyayāpa.... māyā has taken away their knowledge, and that is going on as vijñāna, science. māyā has made them rascal, and they are presenting themselves as the man of advanced knowledge. A rascal is representing himself as advanced in knowledge. That is the defect of Kali-yuga.
Morning Walk -- February 26, 1976, Mayapura:
Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu, personally He gives example. He could have done at His home. Why He took sannyāsa and went out of home?
Devotee (3): We have one boy at the temple, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and he doesn't want to do any work. He simply reads, and he says that "I will not do any work now, but when I become realized by reading," he says, "then I will engage in work."
Prabhupāda: No, no, he's reading. That is working. If he's... But he is sleeping, that is another thing. In the name of reading, sometimes we sleep. If that is not done, it is all right. He's reading. That's all right. But if he shows that "I am reading," but he's sleeping secretly, that is bad. To see that he's not sleeping, he's actually reading.
Indian devotee (4): He's life member also, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hm? Anyway, if he's doing something, that's good.
Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:
Devotee (1): Kāmāturaṁ harṣa-śoka-bhayaiṣaṇārtam.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is kāmāturam. Prahlāda Mahārāja, millions of years ago, a five-years-old boy, he's stating what is the position of the materialistic person. This is Bhāgavata. (break) ...education system should be stopped, rascal, producing rascals and hippies in the university. What is the use of this education? Atheists, putting simply theories, and that is also nonsense, and it is going on in the name of education. (break)...Paṇḍita says.... Who is paṇḍita? Recite.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu...
Prabhupāda: Eh? Eh.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Para-dāreṣu, para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat. The.... Is.... It is moral instruction, what to speak of high education. Means it, preliminary moral education.
Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Trivikrama: Even abortion.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And this is going on as education, as saintly person, priest. These things are going on in the name of religion, in the name of education. How much fallen this world is, just try to understand. As soon as they are caught up, they'll defend only by arguments, counter-arguments.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is that because they have no standard?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is that because they have no standard?
Prabhupāda: No. How they can have standard? Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. How they can have good standard? Because they are atheists, godless, there cannot be. That is the test. As soon as he is godless, he's rascal. Never mind M.A., Ph.D. That's all. This is our conclusion. As soon as you know that "Here is a godless atheist," he is rascal. Bas, finished. Exactly like.... Suppose you are in India, and if you think, "No, there is no government. It is going on automatically," then you are rascal, immediately. Is it very sane man, sane man's statement, statement, that "No, no, there is no God. It is going on"? So atheist means rascal. Such a nice arrangement is going on, exactly at 6:15 the sun is there, and "There is no government. There is no God." Just see how rascaldom. And then what it is? "By chance." And he is scientist. We have to consider them educated scientists? Are we going to be fooled like that? "There is no government." "There is no father." How the child came? "There is no father." Just see. A woman has got a child. And if somebody says, "Yes, she has got child, but there is no need of a father," is that sane man's proposal? Nature is producing, and nature is prakṛti, but where is the puruṣa? Prakṛti-puruṣa. So without puruṣa, how prakṛti can produce? That puruṣaṁ śāśvatam ādyam, Kṛṣṇa.... Is that all right?
Talk at Radha-Govinda Mandir -- March 24, 1976, Calcutta:
Prabhupāda: And that is the inspiration of my devotional life. Then I asked my father that "Give me Rādhā-Govinda Deity; I shall worship." So my father was also Vaiṣṇava. He gave me small Rādhā-Govinda Deity. I was worshiping in my house. Whatever I was eating, I was offering, and I was following the ceremonies of this Rādhā-Govinda with my small Deity. That Deity is still existing. I have given to my sister. So then I introduced Ratha-yātrā. So I.... My Ratha-yātrā was being performed very gloriously. My father used to spend money. In those days ten rupees, twenty rupees was sufficient. I hired one kīrtana party and a small friends, they..., I think the brother of the present generation, and there was another De family here, so we performed this Ratha-yātrā ceremony. According to our children's imagination, it was very gorgeous. So I think our present Manmohan.... His name is? Gabhur Bhavana? (Bengali) Gopishvara Mullik. That Gopishvara Mullik was my father's friend. So he was criticizing my father that "You are performing Ratha-yātrā ceremony and you are not inviting us." So my father said, "That is children's play. What shall I invite you? You are very big man." "Oh, so you are avoiding. In the name of children you are avoiding us." On the whole, this Ratha-yātrā festival was very gorgeously.... Then imitating me, the other, my brother like, Kangalu(?), he also introduced Ratha-yātrā. And.... Kangalu. (Bengali) So all of them introduced Ratha-yātrā, and the destination was this Thakurbari, from there. So practically what I am doing now, the same thing, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa worship and introduction of Ratha-yātrā. I am not doing anything else. You know very well.
Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:
Mike Barron: What is the biggest obstacle for people to overcome?
Prabhupāda: Their dullness. They are not being educated, but they are putting into the darkness of ignorance more and more. That is going on in the name of education.
Mike Barron: But some people are confused by the number of false gurus.
Prabhupāda: So why you bring guru? You try to understand yourself. If you are fool, then what guru will do?
Mike Barron: But there are people...
Prabhupāda: You should be intelligent. You should know that what is the subject matter of knowledge. Why do you accept so many fools and rascals as guru? First of all you know what is the subject matter of knowledge. Just like if you want to become a carpenter, you should go to an expert carpenter. If you want to be a medical man, here, if you want to become medical man, you must approach the medical college. So first of all, what do you want? You do not know what you want. Therefore you get so many cheaters. You do not know what you want.
Press Conference -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:
Prabhupāda: Huh? Not only Guru Maharaj-ji, so many Mahārāja. So this movement is authorized. Others, they are some imaginary sentiments. That's all. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is authorized movement, Vedic culture. And they, in the name of Vedic culture, talking some nonsense. That's all. That is the difference. Do you know about Guru Maharaj-ji?
Interviewer: No, no.
Prabhupāda: None of you?
Interviewer: You've met him?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Interviewer: You've met him, have you?
Prabhupāda: No, what business I have got to meet him? He says that he is God. Do you believe that bogus statement? That he's God?
Interviewer: Do you think he's an egotist?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Devotee: Do you think he's an egotist? Do you think he's an egotist?
Prabhupāda: That is all simply foolishness. If somebody says "I am God," do you think it is very reasonable statement? Bogus. Simple thing, bogus.
Room Conversation -- May 1, 1976, Fiji:
Prabhupāda: Therefore they're not religion. They're cheating. This is not religion, this is cheating.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So simply they're talking about God?
Prabhupāda: Yes. What is this?
Hari-śauri: This is dob juice, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no, you can keep that. Actually, there is no religion. In the name of religion, some farce is going on.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That's a fact. You've said in the past, "Devil citing scripture."
Prabhupāda: Yes. They're eating meat. They have no even human sense. What is that religion? They have no even sense that "I am cutting throat of one poor animal under my protection. If somebody cuts my throat, how much I am unhappy. And I'm doing the same business and I'm human being? How can I call myself a human being? I have no sense even of compassion." Cats and dogs are passing on as religionists. Some hogs and pigs are going on as philosopher. And other animals is going as scientist, Darwin. They're animals only, cats and dogs. They are the leaders of the society. How you can expect any benefit from them? The leaders themselves are cats and dogs, pigs. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). These leaders, they are saṁstutaḥ, they are very much worshiped. By whom? Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ. By the dogs, by the pigs, by the.... śva-viḍ-varāha..., camel, and by the ass. Because these particular names, I have explained in the Bhāgavata... So suppose one man has become lion, and he's praised by dogs, camels, asses, and pigs. Naturally, they will praise, "Oh, sir, you are the king." Does it mean he's king? He's animal. So it is going on. They are electing a big animal as president.
Room Conversation -- May 7, 1976, Honolulu:
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a black market going on in Russia, particularly black market on books. Books are smuggled into the country and sold and they're very dearly read. People are very anxious.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They must be because they are keeping in darkness.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: These nasty countries, in the name of giving them material facility, they'll kill them, even they're independent. Such a horrible country. How people can tolerate loss of independence? It is very horrible. I am sitting here 24 hours, this is another thing, but if I understand that I cannot go out, I have to sit down here, oh it is horrible. It is a horrible condition. Simply this impression that I have to keep myself within this room, although I am keeping myself, I am not going, only for walk maybe. But if the impression is that I cannot go out from this room, then my life is lost. This is psychology. So, they are keeping their young men. They are not allowed to go out of the country, in Russia. Similarly in China.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even more so.
Prabhupāda: So what kind of government it is? It is a horrible government. And they are hackney only in literature. These communist country, the people are forced to accept the government regulation. And that is all bad. I have seen in Moscow, generally the people are morose, their face not very happy. They are also Europeans, they want freedom to go here and there (indistinct) and to work.
Morning Walk -- May 27, 1976, Honolulu:
Prabhupāda: They say..., they can say all nonsense, but I have to say something. You accept God as the central point, then I accept you. Why you are making state? Then I'll say "I have got my state," then there is fight-American, Russia. That's all.
Devotee (2): People read these philosophies and they think that they will get knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Knowledge means misguiding knowledge. That's all. That is not knowledge. That is going on. In the name of knowledge, all rascaldom is going on. That is the misfortune of the present world. In the name of knowledge, all rascal isms going. That's all. If we accept after all somebody else is the Supreme Lord, so He's the father. Why don't you accept that? What is the difficulty?
Devotee (2): The difficulty is that they feel that there's no one that we have to answer to.
Prabhupāda: Ha?
Devotee (2): They feel that there's actually no, there, there's no... First of all, there's no laws, there's no natural laws we have to follow.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Then why you are dictating laws, philosophy? That is the (indistinct) no laws. Why you are dictating your laws, that we should be communistic, this will be capitalistic, this will be socialistic? Why you are dictating? Let there be no law, as the uncivilized man does.
Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: This is especially meant for the brāhmaṇas, intelligent. Go on.
Hṛdayānanda:
- ko gṛheṣu pumān saktam
- ātmānam ajitendriyaḥ
- sneha-pāśair dṛḍhair baddham
- utsaheta vimocitum
"What person too attached to household life due to being unable to control his senses can liberate himself? An attached householder is bound very strongly by ropes of affection for his family—wife, children and other relatives." Purport: "Prahlāda Mahārāja's first proposal was kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha: (SB 7.6.1) 'One who is sufficiently intelligent should use the human form of body from the very beginning of life—in other words, from the tender age of childhood—to practice the activities of devotional service, giving up all other engagements.' Dharmān bhāgavatān means the religious principle of reviving our relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. For this purpose Kṛṣṇa personally advises, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) 'Give up all other duties and surrender unto Me.' While in the material world we manufacture so many duties in the name of so many isms, but our actual duty is to free ourselves from the cycle of birth, death, old age and disease. For this purpose, one must first be liberated from material bondage, and especially from household life. Household life is actually a kind of license for a materially attached person by which to enjoy sense gratification under regulative principles. Otherwise there is no need of entering household life. Before entering household life, one should be trained as a brahmacārī, living under the care of the guru, whose place is known as the guru-kula. Brahmacārī guru-kule vasan dānto guror hitam (SB 7.12.1). From the very beginning, a brahmacārī is trained to sacrifice everything for the benefit of the guru. A brahmacārī is advised to go begging alms door to door, addressing all women as mother, and whatever he collects goes to the benefit of the guru. In this way he learns how to control his senses and sacrifice everything for the guru. When he is fully trained, if he likes he is allowed to marry. Thus he is not an ordinary gṛhastha who has learned only how to satisfy his senses. A trained gṛhastha can gradually give up household life and go to the forest to become increasingly enlightened in spiritual life and at last take sannyāsa. Prahlāda Mahārāja explained to his father that to be freed from all material anxieties one should go to the forest. Hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpam. One should give up his household, which is a place for going further and further down into the darkest regions of material existence. The first advice, therefore, is that one must give up household life (gṛham andha-kūpam). However, if one prefers to remain in the dark well of household life because of uncontrolled senses, he becomes increasingly entangled by ropes of affection for his wife, children, servants, house, money and so on. Such a person cannot attain liberation from material bondage. Therefore children should be taught from the very beginning of life to be first-class brahmacārīs. Then it will be possible for them to give up household life in the future. To return home, back to Godhead, one must be completely free from material attachment. Therefore, bhakti-yoga means vairāgya-vidyā, the art that can help one develop a distaste for material enjoyment.
- vāsudeve bhagavati
- bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ
- janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ
- jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam
- (SB 1.2.7)
'By rendering devotional service unto the Personality of Godhead, Śrī Kṛṣṇa, one immediately acquires causeless knowledge and detachment from the world.' If one engages in devotional service from the beginning of life, he easily attains vairāgya-vidyā, or asakti, detachment, and becomes jitendriya, the controller of his senses. One who perfectly engages in devotional service is therefore called gosvāmī or svāmī, master of the senses. Unless one is master of the senses, he should not accept the renounced order of life, sannyāsa. A strong inclination for sense enjoyment is the cause of the material body. Without full knowledge one cannot be unattached to material enjoyment, but as long as one is not in that position one is not fit to return home, back to Godhead."
Prabhupāda: Now discuss on this point.
Hṛdayānanda: One point you're mentioning, Prabhupāda, is a strong inclination for sense enjoyment is the cause of the material body. So it seems that people try to enjoy their senses in order to become happy, but actually they are causing their own suffering.
Prabhupāda: Entanglement. Sat-saṅga chāḍiyā kāinu asate vilāsa te-kāraṇe lāgila ye mora karma-bandha-phāṅsa. This entanglement.... To repeat birth and death is entanglement. That they do not know. Na te viduḥ. They're obliged to accept this entanglement life. So? Time is up? So read another verse.
Room Conversation with Mother and Sons -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:
Prabhupāda: Because they are spiritually enlightened. That is the cause of brightness. And materially involved-moroseness. Because it is ignorance. Material life means life of ignorance. And spiritual life means life of enlightenment. That is the difference. Material life is called tamas. Tamas means darkness. Tamaso mā jyotir gamaya. This is the Vedic mantra. Don't remain in darkness. But people cannot understand. "I am living in the light. Why I'm darkness?" Darkness means without any spiritual enlightenment. That is darkness. So the Vedic injunction is "Don't remain in darkness. Come to the light." The light is my spiritual life, and material life means darkness. Because he does not know what is going to happen next. You are under the laws of material nature. The nature will act according to the association you make, exactly. You do not know that you are infecting some contagious disease. You may not know it, but it will act. In due course of time, you'll develop that disease and suffer. Similarly, without knowledge, in ignorance, imperceptibly we are associating with a certain law of nature, and we shall be victimized. We may not know it, but we shall be victimized. That is the life of ignorance. A child does not know that if he touches the fire it will burn and it will cause some disease, some sore. He does not know. But he, somehow or other, if he touches fire, these things will come. This is the life of ignorance. You do something, you do not know what is the effect. But the effect will come, and you'll have to suffer. You know or not know, it doesn't matter. That is ignorance. Life of darkness. The Christian theologicians, they say that "Why shall I suffer for my...?" They do not believe in the karma, fruitive activity. But that means ignorance. They have no sufficient knowledge. Karma is there and effect is there, but they do not know it. Poor fund of knowledge. Therefore it is failing. They have failed, these Christian priest, to explain everything philosophically. So advanced Westerners, they are now educated in science philosophy, they are not attracted with these dogmatic views. So to remain in ignorance is animal life. To be enlightened is human life. And the topmost enlightenment is to understand God and to love Him. That is the topmost enlightenment. Unfortunately, there is no education to know what is God, and what to speak of loving Him. This is modern civilization. Ignorance. A civilization of ignorance. They do not know what is what. Simply speculating, wasting time, talking all nonsense. This is going on in the name of education, but actually they are in ignorance. They do not know what is what. They are reading so many philosophical speculation, horrible condition of the so-called philosopher, scientist. Simply "I believe," "In this believe, that believe." You believe.... Believe something. That is your (indistinct). But your belief is not final. That is creating chaotic condition. You believe some way, I believe something, he believes something. What is the profit? Chaos. So all these philosophers, scientists, they believe "I believe," as if his belief will be a doctrine. Why he believes like that? People also accept like that. Nobody questions that a person says "I believe," that means he is not in perfect knowledge. But in Vedic śāstra, there is no question of belief. This is the fact. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. It never says that "I believe there are so many aquatics." No. Clear declaration: Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. There are nine hundred thousand different forms of life in the water. Bas. This is Vedic knowledge. It never says, "I believe." What is the meaning of belief? You must know definitely and declare it. That is Vedic knowledge. Speculation is not allowed. Truth must be declared as it is. (aside:) That Bengali woman wanted to see me? Mrs. Dasgupta.
Conversation in Airport and Car -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:
Kīrtanānanda: ...had a very nice place for you.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. (break) People are being kept in such an ignorant way that they do not care about sinful activities. They can do anything for sense gratification. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). Actually, there is no advancement of civilization. They are thinking, they are running on four-wheel motorcar, and the dog is running on four legs. What is the quality change? This is going on in the name of civilization, and people are kept in ignorance. Where is the advancement? Running by motorcar is advancement? They have no knowledge that there is next life, and "Today I am running on Ford car, tomorrow I may have to run like dog on four legs."
Kīrtanānanda: They do not think like that.
Prabhupāda: So this is ignorance, this is ignorance. And they are kept, the whole world—the state, the father, the guardian, everyone, the priest. Everyone is ignorant. Dull-headed ignorant. And they are passing on as philosopher, scientist, religious leader. (break) ...hard to bring them to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Taking these few years, fifty years or sixty years living here, and dance like dog and finish. There is no life. You die peacefully or (indistinct). And not dying peacefully, they cry. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Morning Walk -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:
Indian man (1): They pay the money to a farmer not to grow the wheat here.
Prabhupāda: Just see. This rascaldom is going on in the name of civilization. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1), they do not know. Everything belongs to God, and are all sons of God. So by God's arrangement there is enough land to live, enough land to produce food. They're misusing. Therefore the whole trouble.
Indian man (4): Prabhu, then what that means, what we mean is they should have rsabandutra(?)
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is, a rsabandutra(?) means, unless you have got the central point. How we can have? First of all you know Kṛṣṇa.
Indian man (4): They must have a common background, common ground whereby you can...
Prabhupāda: That they haven't got. Common.... He is trying to become Kṛṣṇa. Everything is rolling around. So this is the mistake. He's trying to become center, that foolish rascal. How he's center? Center is Kṛṣṇa.
Indian man (4): So the only hope for humanity is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes, only hope. Therefore this verse I was explaining.
Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:
Prabhupāda: But you are intelligent. Why you are putting the forefather's words? You avoid it. That means you are cheating people. You do not believe in, but you still write it. That means cheating. Why do you write such things in which you do not believe? That means cheating. Hmm? What do you think? If you write something which you do not believe in, are you not cheating? That means cheating. You take word, you are giving a piece of paper, and it is written there, "one thousand dollars." That means you are cheating, in the name of God, he will accept you, that's all. If you say, "No, I don't want paper. Give me gold dollar," then you are finished. Your currency will be finished. Immediately there will be revolution, that "The government is cheating us." Actually it is cheating. What is the proof, value, of this paper, little paper? Simply "I promise to pay, governor and this..." But it is on trust only: "Yes, government will pay me." They'll never pay, but so long the government goes on, it will go on, that's all, cheating will go on. And as soon government fails, you throw in the street, no one will care for it. It has been practically proved in the last war, in Germany. There was scarcity of food, and those who had bunch of currency notes, they went for one piece of bread, so many thousand marks, "Give me." Nobody supplied. So the paper has no value, but if we believe, it has value, that's all. Otherwise what is the meaning of this paper, one thousand dollars? So it is a kind of cheating, "We trust in God; we are very good men. You trust in me."
Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:
Prabhupāda: It is very fortunate they are not crucifying you. Putting into jail, but they crucified Lord Jesus Christ, they were so intelligent. Because he was preaching God consciousness, he was crucified. What was his fault? He was talking of God, therefore he was crucified.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Now they only take our saṅkīrtana collection.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Now they are just taking our collection. Today two of my boys, they were arrested just north of here. So as a fine they have taken their saṅkīrtana collection.
Prabhupāda: Robbing. In the name of law, robbing.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Right, the court has taken it.
Devotee (1): Did this happen in court or the police...?
Dhrtadyumna: In court.
Prabhupāda: And then they let go?
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: They were let go.
Hari-śauri: They just want some revenue.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they are robbing, government, dasyu dharmabhiḥ. It is stated, government will be like rogues. As the rogues and thieves, they take away from you by force, the government will do that. In the court, by income tax, so many people are being harassed.
Room Conversation After Film -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Mr. Punjasai? He wrote a letter recently. He mentioned the business about the books, that Guru-kṛpā said he was supposed to some give books from Australia, and he wasn't getting them.
Prabhupāda: So you can write him—note down—that "We are managing our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement by GBC. We have got about twenty GBC's for looking after the whole world affair, and above the GBC, I am there, and under the GBC's there are presidents, treasurers, secretaries in each and every center. So the president is responsible to the GBC. GBC is responsible to me. In this way we are managing. But why you are proposing a separate trustee for Fiji? We have no separate trustee till now, but if for security, if it is required, you can adopt it. So this is our management going on. Now, if you have got some new idea, so please explain to me how you want to manage. But I think Fiji temple cannot be managed in a separate idea. But still, I shall entertain if you have got some idea to manage. The deed should be given to the founder-ācārya, in the name of founder-ācārya like 'A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, Founder-Ācārya International Society.' "
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The deed?
Prabhupāda: The deed, yes.
Room Conversation After Film -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The deed should be...?
Prabhupāda: "Deed should be made in favor of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, Founder-Ācārya, International Society. But it cannot be dedicated to any office-bearer. So I suggest that you become the president on the temple and Upendra become the secretary, and either your brother or your wife can become the treasurer. There is no need of trustees. But in any circumstances, the temple cannot be a private property in the name of ISKCON. That is not possible."
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "A private property in the name of ISKCON."
Prabhupāda: "If you want to keep it a private property, then the ISKCON name should not be utilized." Here you have understood that he's trying to utilize ISKCON's name...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: To collect.
Prabhupāda: ...to collect, and he'll be keeper. That should be frankly disclosed, that "This is not possible." So we shall write our Upendra? No, I have already written that he should be the secretary. No?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. You mentioned earlier today that he was supposed to be one of the trustees, but now this is different, so...
Prabhupāda: So we are not going to make any trustee.
Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:
Rūpānuga: They are stopping the benefit.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So the human life is meant for understanding God, and these rascals by all dead theories, they are stopping to understand God.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Scientists are responsible for that.
Prabhupāda: Yes, the greatest mischief-maker, in the name of scientific knowledge. We must fight against them. Let them agree, "Yes, God is supreme." Then there is no fight. But as soon as they say that there is no need of God, science will solve everything, then they are rascal, you must expose.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Another point about this Institute, from my experience in the last few days in Washington, there were some Indians who come to the temple, and they are very favorable to the concept.
Prabhupāda: Include such members. Let them...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yesterday this Sharma, Dr. Sharma, he came, and he's going to come this evening, he's quite well known as a scientist.
Prabhupāda: Medical man?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, he's not medical man, but he has two or three Ph.D.'s in two, three different fields. In engineering, in chemistry and in pathology.
Vṛṣākapi: He's becoming a life member, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: That pathologist.
Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:
Dr. Sharma: Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22).
Prabhupāda: Yes. Common sense. And we are practically experiencing. When the child has grown to become a young man, the mother does not cry, "Oh, my child is gone." She knows, she knows that "Here is my child. Simply he has changed his body." So this is a fact, that we are changing bodies but we are eternal. This is the conclusion. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). So unless one is properly educated, where is the talk of advancing? So this is the beginning of spiritual education, to understand that the living entity is eternal and the body is changing. And then next question will be that if the body is changing, then this body will be changed, so after my death what kind of body I am going to accept? That is education. That is education. And if I remain blind, I do not care, and next life I become a dog, then what is the value of my present education? In spite of all education, next life I am going to become a dog or tree, then what is the value of my education? That education is not. Throughout the whole world perhaps we are giving this education. Throughout the whole world, find out any institution or university where this education is given. No. Simply big, big talks. And you talk something nonsense and take laureate, Nobel Laureate. That's all. It is going on. Somebody is talking nonsense that life is produced from matter, from chemicals, and if we challenge, "All right, combine some matter in egg form and bring life," that rascal will say, "No, it will take millions of years." And if the bird is giving life in five days, why you are taking doctorate title? Give the chicken doctorate title. The rascals are simply bluffing the people. This is going on in the name of education. Can anyone produce life by a combination of chemicals? And these rascals are advertising. We challenge, "All right, not very big thing. Egg, you can see there is some white substance and yellow substance, and you are very big scientist, you find out what are the chemicals and combine it and put it under legs of the chicken or in the incubator and bring life. Otherwise, why you are talking nonsense and cheating people?" Not only cheating people, people are becoming godless. Everything is science. And the science is this, cheating, that life can be produced by chemicals.
Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:
Prabhupāda: That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. You have got Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam here? Find out that, when Lord Buddha appeared, that verse. Sammohāya sura-dviṣām (SB 1.3.24). His propaganda was to cheat the atheist class of men. Atheist class of men, they did not recognize existence of God, so He became one of them. Sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. This atheist class, they were killing animals in the name of yajña like anything. So yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati (BG 4.7), so He came as Buddha to stop this animal killing. His real business was stop the animal killing, that these rascals are going to hell in the name of religion, so at least stop their activities of animal killing. So therefore he started the mission, ahiṁsā paramo dharma: "Don't kill animals." But in the Vedas there is recommendation, in the yajña, as you were saying, that there is..., animal killing is recommended. So people presented that "Here is animal killing recommended in the yajña." Therefore he denied the authority of Vedas. Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātaṁ sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. So this Buddha incarnation is cheating the atheist class of men. He said that "Don't kill animals. If you are killed you feel pain. Why you should kill animals?" That was his mission, to stop animal killing, sinful activities. So what was your question?
Morning Walk -- July 11, 1976, New York:
Bali-mardana: He's a crazy boy.
Prabhupāda: (break) Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, para-upakāra. One who is to come from India, he should come for para-upakāra, for doing welfare to others, not to cheat them. But these people, they come. In the name of para-upakāra, they cheat. Which way we have to go?
Devotees: This way.
Bali-mardana: Prabhupāda, you are the only Indian who has taken up this mission, out of six hundred and eighty million.
Woman: Don't touch that dog. He's wearing a muzzle. Just leave him alone, he won't trouble you. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: What she said?
Hari-śauri: She said don't touch the dog, it's wearing a muzzle.
Rādhāvallabha: She should wear a muzzle.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...come with dog. Dog is not allowed.
Rādhāvallabha: That's her family.
Room Conversation -- July 19, 1976, New York:
Prabhupāda: That's a fact, that I say always.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "But the Kṛṣṇa people were not entirely free of harassment. Along the parade route three men, including one who said he was an Evangelical Christian minister, jeered at the parade and called on parade watchers to become Christians. 'Idol worship. This is absolutely ridiculous. Read the Bible,' cried one man who would identify himself only as a normal Christian. There was a brief scuffle when an Indian immigrant tried to tear a large placard out of the hands of another heckler. The placard read 'Turn or Burn.' The police broke things up but made no arrests. 'They are insulting us,' said the Kṛṣṇa follower who declined to identify himself. 'I'm a devotee of Kṛṣṇa and Christ. These people who are doing this in the name of Christ are criminals.' " Very strong statement. "Except for the hecklers, however, the parade was generally very well received by passersby, who enjoyed the three multi-hued floats, the sun, and the chanting and dancing of the young Kṛṣṇa marchers. 'I think it's great,' said Tyrone Adams of Philadelphia, who was paying a visit to his home town of Inglewood, New Jersey. 'I'm not religious, but they're all happy and dancing, and that is what life is all about.' " Even a nonreligious person said that. "In Washington Square a crowd of about three thousand, many of whom were there as part of the normal Sunday afternoon activities, heard Swami Prabhupāda deliver a lecture. Later the crowd was served a free vegetarian feast. Along the side, Kṛṣṇa followers sold Indian sweets, Kṛṣṇa scriptures, and what one speaker described as 'transcendental paraphernalia.' "
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it's a good article. For the Times especially it's good, because they are very conservative.
Prabhupāda: The Times first published about my activities from Tompkinson Square. They first published.
Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:
Prabhupāda: Oh yes, I remember. He has got any questions?
Atreya Ṛṣi: Terry, do you have any questions?
Terry: I have a question about this particular age. The world seems to be dividing itself between two kinds of materialists, the one which pays lip service to spiritual precedents but really devotes itself to self-aggrandizement, and the other which establishes an atheistic doctrine in the name of moral struggle with that greedy self-aggrandizement. In fact this atheistic moral doctrine has now taken over virtually the entire Sinic world—China, Tibet, Indochina. Is there some way that, the question is, what is the cosmic purpose for this and how should one come to terms with this prevailing, this increasingly prevailing notion that justice can be established in a material state or a material dimension?
Prabhupāda: In the material world there cannot be any peace, justice, morality. It is not possible. You may try to make some adjustment, but it will never be possible. So, by their concocted imagination, they are thinking, "This way will be beneficial," but unless they come to the spiritual platform, there is no question of peace, prosperity, justice. It is not possible.
Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:
Ali: The way I look at it, it's better to talk about God than to talk about...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is good. One must be serious, that we are talking about God, so what is my God realization? That is nice. Otherwise, if I go on life after life talking about God and there is no God realization... That is going on. Śrama eva hi kevalam.
- dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ
- viṣvaksena-kathāsu yaḥ
- notpādayed yadi ratiṁ
- śrama eva hi kevalam
- (SB 1.2.8)
We are talking of God, but instead of loving God, we are loving this body. So that is not practical. That is simply waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam. If one does not become enthused to love God, then simply talking about God is a waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam. That is going on all over the world. Somebody's Hindu, somebody's Christian, somebody's Muhammadan, they are going to the church, they are going to the mosque, they are going to the temple, everything is going on, but when you ask whether you love God or dog, he'll say, "I love dog." Practically we see. Everyone is keeping a dog, very favorite pet. And in church, they'll talk of God, but practically they love the dog. Is it not? This is going on, in the name of religion, that's all. Therefore Bhāgavata says it is simply waste of time. What is the use of talking God? If by talking of God perpetually you are developing your love for dog, then what is the use? Śrama eva hi kevalam. It is simply waste of time. These are all discussed. Regularly going to the church, regularly going to the mosque or temple, but the love is for material things, not for God. How I get money, how I get motorcar, how I get dog, how I get nice wife, how I get nice—the love is here. The example is given, just like a vulture. The vulture goes very, very high, four miles high, five miles. But his business is to find out where there is a corpse, where there is a corpse. Very highly elevated, but business is to find out a dead body. And as soon as he finds it... (hand motion indicating sweeping down) So this is going on. Very religious, very regularly performing religious ceremonies, rituals, but the business is where is a corpse. "Come on, here is some sense gratification." This is going on. If you are talking of God, then you must love God. That is progress. But there is no love of God, there is love of something else, so what is the use of talking about. Hm? What do you think? Is it not waste of time?
Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:
Dayānanda: They say that "You may have so many wonderful philosophies, but our desire is just to enjoy life."
Prabhupāda: That means animal. That means animal. Animal has no philosophy.
Nava-yauvana: Also they say that religions are the causes of war. In Lebanon now the Christians are killing the Muslims and the Muslims are killing the Christians in the name of...
Prabhupāda: And the Communists are killing capitalists and capitalists are killing Communists. What is that? Is that religion? Then? How you can stop war? Because you are animal, you fight, you can give some name, either on religious ground or this philosophical ground. But because you are animal you will fight. You can give a different name. That is different thing. But because you are dogs, you'll fight. The real religion is why they will fight? Religion means to accept God. So if you are Muslim, I am Hindu, if I accept God, if You accept God, then where is fight? If we accept that God is the proprietor, God is the father, then where is the question of fight? Because we are not religious, therefore fight. Otherwise, if you accept God is the supreme father, if I accept God is the supreme, why fight? We have to go down?
Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:
Prabhupāda: Yes. Similarly, a human being has got the right to understand God. So one party is denying, the another party is trying to give you. So who is better friend?
Nandarāṇī: The one who is giving you the knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So we are the best friend of the whole world because we are trying to give him the rightful position. Others are misleading. They are enemies, they are not friend. In the name of friends, they are enemies.
- vāñchā-kalpatarubhyaś ca
- kṛpā-sindhubhya eva ca
- patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo
- vaiṣṇavebhyo namo namaḥ
(I offer my respectful obeisances unto all the Vaiṣṇava devotees of the Lord. They can fulfill the desires of everyone, just like desire trees, and they are full of compassion for the fallen souls.)
Therefore Vaiṣṇava is so big. One has got the right to understand God and become perfect, go back to home, back to Godhead and solve all problems. That is being denied, this rascal civilization.
Shahrezad: I believe in philosophy that the Creator must exist, but I don't know about the stories and details that I hear from...
Prabhupāda: No, that you shall understand. First of all you must accept that there is creator. Then we study what is the nature of that creator. Just like these rascals, they are trying to prove that creation begins from stone, matter. Whether that is fact, whether creation begins from stone or from life, these things are to be studied. Creation they are accepting, but they are trying to prove that creation is from matter. Our proposition is "No, creation is from life." There are two things, life and matter. These are subject matters for further studies. First of all, we must know there is a creator. The atheists, they say there is no creator but there is creation, do they not? There is creation.
Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:
Indian man: Chakapat.(?)
Prabhupāda: Chakapat. So whatever is going on in the name of religion, simply cheating. Because religion means dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Religion means the laws given by God. That is religion. But they do not know who is God and what is the law. And God is coming personally, giving the laws. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). They'll not take it. In the absence they'll say, "We have not seen God. We do not know who is God." And when He comes, they don't take. They are misguided by the leaders. Bhagavad-gītā without Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Take Bhagavad-gītā, but don't touch Kṛṣṇa. Untouchable. Take the egg and cut the throat of the chicken; it is expensive. Take only the hind part; you'll get the egg. And mouth is expensive, cut it. Ardha-kukkuṭī-nyāya (Cc. Ādi-līlā 5.176). Very intelligent, that this part is expensive and this part is productive. Keep this part and cut. So as soon as in Bhagavad-gītā we say you have to become devotee of Kṛṣṇa—no, cut. That part, cut. And Kṛṣṇa said karmaṇy evādhikāras te, and work like ass day and night. "Ah, yes, we'll do."
Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:
Jayapatākā: I went to Haridaspur as soon as I received your letter because Bahusvarūpa was there, making arrangement for the Janmāṣṭamī festival. So I spoke to all those people for two days, Thursday and Friday. And the land is in the name of the zamindar, Mr..., Ghosh family. There's fourteen members who have to sign. So in Haridaspur nine members are living, and they are all agreed for signing. And they say the other five members live in Calcutta. Once they sign the deed, they'll also sign. There's no doubt because that's not even in their possession. That's in the public's possession. And all the public, Anchal-pradhan and all the other leaders of that village they are also all eager to have us start . I think that we can also raise some money in the neighborhood. There's some relatively rich people. So that... I was trying to register that before I came here but because Monday is... That zamindar has one haṭṭa. And that's... His haṭṭa day is Monday, so he was busy. And Tuesday was Janmāṣṭamī by government of West Bengal, and Wednesday was our Janmāṣṭamī and Haridaspur Janmāṣṭamī, and I came here today, Thursday, so we couldn't do it beforehand. But as soon as I go back, I can register that. And... But someone should immediately come, Mūrti or Saurabha or someone and see that land.
Prabhupāda: No, no, we have to... Yes. We have to see, make plans.
Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:
Jayapatākā: Gigantic. He has given that to the university. Then we did a kīrtana at his... He has one temple of Rādhā-kānta. That's present ācārya is about a twenty-two-year old boy. He's in the sampradāya of Nimbārka Svāmī. So he doesn't know anything about, very much about spiritual life, although he is following the tradition. That's such a vast... That building is vast. I can't explain to you how big that is. It's at least five times bigger than our building in all ways, and... It is a huge compound. He has got much land in the name of the Deity. So he's becoming a member because he wants to read your books to understand about Lord Caitanya and spiritual...
Prabhupāda: Now for making member you should be very clear so that no misunderstanding takes place. Books, we shall give five books.
Gargamuni: Yes, that...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gargamuni: On my form I have already printed we give five books.
Prabhupāda: "When you finish, you return this; you take another. When you finish that..." In this way.
Gargamuni: What we've been doing with members in Calcutta, members who want more of the books, they sign the standing order and they pay us for the books.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing.
Meeting with Endowments Commissioner -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:
Prabhupāda: That is only God. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28).
Minister: How you are enlightening them, it is a very great service. No doubt about that. And you are making the man, the human being a servant of that (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: This is not my manufacture. Śāstra says kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam.
Minister: They have said so many things in the name of śāstra. They have said so many things in the name of śāstra. That you are making it one is very good.
Prabhupāda: No, those who are approved śāstra is accepted by the ācāryas. Śāstra, which is accepted by the ācārya, that is śāstra. You cannot make. As you cannot manufacture religion, you cannot manufacture śāstras. Approved by the ācāryas. Ācāryopāsanam. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says also that you should know from the ācārya. Everyone. They are preaching Bhagavad-gītā with the purpose of killing Kṛṣṇa. Everyone. The politicians, the scholars, the rascals, and everyone. The main purpose is how to kill Kṛṣṇa. In Bombay I have got a very big friend, you know him. I do not wish to disclose his name. He has set aside ten lakhs of rupees for preaching Gītā. But he wants Gītā without Kṛṣṇa. Rāma without Sītā. Rāvaṇa's policy. Take away Sītā. Rāma will remain alone. So take away Gītā and cut Kṛṣṇa. But I cannot make any compromise I shall... My life is ended, now eighty-one. I do not... But so long I shall live I shall make no compromise, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). Dṛḍha-vrata. And that is a fact. Why shall I mislead people? They are searching after God, what is God. Here is God. Why don't you take it. See His activities. Aiśvaryasya samagrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ. Tally with the formula of God, you see Kṛṣṇa is God. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. So whatever teeny effort I have got, I shall try to establish temples of Kṛṣṇa all over the world with my teeny income. I have got book sales. Kṛṣṇa has given me very good chance. It is beyond any dream. We are selling books sixty thousand dollars daily.
Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They did it in Russia.
Krishna Modi: Because their theory is this: That this God and all these religious matters, this is a opium and this is a kind of, you may say it that in the umbrella. Religious in the name of...
Prabhupāda: And what they have done, the Communists?
Krishna Modi: They have not done anything. They should not do anything. It is not their duty.
Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say, countries like Russia and China, what actual progress they have made?
Krishna Modi: That is... They say like that, that we are giving very good food to everybody, very good house, and living, and all their (indistinct), education, medical free. We are giving the to common men...
Prabhupāda: Medical (indistinct) is free. Free medical service, education... (break)
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: ...and in the offices of big, big professors and all, it looks so much lower than in America or Canada.
Krishna Modi: And in the comparison of India?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, in some respects I found them even lower than India. You'll be amazed... I visited all the leading libraries of Russia and Leningrad. Moscow University Library, all the big libraries. These libraries don't have any foreign exchange for ordering these books. They all want to order... They were begging me for free books. They said, "Why don't you give us a donation or exchange." They have a book exchange that if they give their books then we give our books. Each library gets such little foreign exchange allowance to buy books from abroad.
Prabhupāda: A taxi driver, he was asking some bhakshish.
Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:
Prabhupāda: But here, mass of people, they do not know what is politics. One gentleman, he was my friend, it was in 1952 or '53, Mr. Datt. He was a statistics man. So he was going in the villages to take some statistics. He said to me: "In the village, they ask me, 'Bābujī, iṁrej kakhan... (in Bengali asking "When will the English return?')." So (Hindi). The mass of people, they're for foreigners' rule: "Come and rule over us." Because the mass of people they have no sense of politics. Anyone may come and let them rule, we don't mind. Whatever little tax you want, you take, that's all right. The mass of people is like that. They are not concerned in politics. Under the circumstances, a democracy is not suitable for India. Long ago that Lord Curzon, he suggested this, that in India monarchy is better. He suggested that some of the royal family members should become King of India. It will be welcome. And our country, all along this monarchy was there. Democracy is idea now, but the monarch up to Parīkṣit Mahārāja, they were ideal, rājarṣi. People have so much faith in the monarch that whatever he does, it is right. Naradeva. Of course, nowadays things have changed.
Krishna Modi: There is no difference. In the name of democracy this is the same thing. That's all.
Prabhupāda: No, democracy means the people must have political sense. Then democracy is there. If the people have no political sense, artificially they are giving vote, that democracy... Anyway, we are not political man, but so far whatever it may be, to change the present situation, I am confident if this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is taken seriously in India there will be very, very good thing. That is absolute. So we can take up this work provided there is little cooperation from the government.
Krishna Modi: Correct. So I will come to Vṛndāvana.
Prabhupāda: Jaya. (end)
Room Conversation -- September 4, 1976, Vrndavana:
Hari-śauri: Greenwich Village.
Prabhupāda: East Village? That paper? Long ago.
Harikeśa: Village Voice. The Village Voice.
Prabhupāda: Aha, yes. They told first, that "We thought God is dead." And actually they were dancing in the name of God. Acyutānanda and Brahmānanda. You have seen the picture showing?
Hari-śauri: In this French Back To Godhead.
Harikeśa: Oh, that's Acyutānanda too! Oh!
Prabhupāda: They were the first candidates to dance with my kīrtana.
Harikeśa: I didn't know that was Acyutānanda. I recognize Hayagrīva but...
Hari-śauri: That's not Hayagrīva, it's Brahmānanda.
Harikeśa: That's not Hayagrīva?
Prabhupāda: No. Hayagrīva...
Hari-śauri: It's a picture of Brahmānanda and Acyutānanda dancing, and Prabhupāda's playing on tabla, and Kīrtanānanda sat down on the corner.
Harikeśa: Boy, was he skinny in those days! This is Brahmānanda? And this is Kīrtanānanda Swami sitting down?
Prabhupāda: Just Brahmānanda, Kīrtanānanda standing together.
Room Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: It is further from them. Everything is being done by superior arrangement. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). People should learn all these things by practical example instead of becoming irresponsible and without any obedience to the superior law. They should learn it, but they have no intelligence. They think, "We are all free." Wherefrom the monkey is coming, why there are so many varieties of life, how it is...? What do they know? Nothing. All bluff, vague explanation and that is going on in the name of science. This is the position. All rascals. Fortunately we have got this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Bhagavad-gītā. All knowledge. First-class knowledge. (break) ...eternally-enjoyment. For him everything, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Everything ānanda. He has no such thing that this is harmful, that this is useful. That is Kṛṣṇa. Because nobody can do harm to Him and neither in the spiritual world, anyone is harmful. Everyone is advanced devotee. Even the tigers, they are also devotees.
Room Conversation -- December 12, 1976, Hyderabad:
Prabhupāda: So do this and purchase. What is the price?
Mahāṁśa: I'll find out tomorrow. Prabhupāda: Yes. Do it nice, enthusiastically. Everything will be success. So any other question to discuss? Haṁsadūta: I don't know if this is the time, but I think this project should have a separate account. Mahāṁśa: Yes. It will have an account in the name of the trust. The Venkatesh..., I mean ISKCON Venkateshwara Trust. So as soon as we register tomorrow, day after tomorrow we'll open an account in that name. With how many signees? Prabhupāda: So make three, you three. Mahāṁśa: Joint. Prabhupāda: Out of three, two. Out of three, any two will do. That's all. Mahāṁśa: And amount which will be given from Your Divine Grace will be a loan towards the trust which will be paid back later on. Prabhupāda: Yes. Māyāpur account you take. Ask them to transfer to this account. And when you want to pay...
Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: If you want to cheat others, you cheat in your own way. Why do you take Bhagavad-gītā?
Guest (1): Don't take the protection of Bhagavad-gītā. That is doubly wrong.
Prabhupāda: That is great cheating, great cheating.
Guest (1): In the name of Bhagavad-gītā...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (1): ...one should not...
Prabhupāda: That is the difficulty. Everyone is doing that.
Guest (1): Yes. We have many propagations of Gītā in this country.
Prabhupāda: He is preaching his own ideas and taking Bhagavad-gītā.
Guest (1): Under the umbrella of Bhagavad-gītā he does it.
Prabhupāda: Smoking gāñjā with a friend's hand because there is smell, so the friend's hand will smell. (Hindi) (laughter) This is going on.
Morning Walk -- December 29, 1976, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: They cannot believe that other than this method, there can be civilization. This hoggish civilization is real civilization. To become like hog. That is real civilization. And to give up this process, thinking of soul, elevation of the soul, going back to Godhead, simply imagination, brainwashing. How they can understand? Mām aprāpya nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra vartmani (BG 9.3). Who can understand this? (Hindi) to return (Hindi) to the cycle of birth and death. You believe that. (Hindi) If you do not in this life achieve the sense of spiritual consciousness then you'll have to go back to the cycle of birth and death. Who will understand this philosophy? Mostly they do not know what is the cycle of birth and death, and what to speak of understanding God. This is the position. This is suar (pig) position. A suar cannot understand. The men have become like that. In the name of so-called civilization. Can a suar understand this philosophy? A man cannot understand. And what is the difference between him and the suar? Suar (Hindi) There is a narration, Brahmā came, and Indra became, by the curse of Bṛhaspati, became a suar. So he was living in the forest as suar. Brahmājī came, "All right, your punishment is now over. You come." "Where shall I go?" "The heaven?" "This is heaven." "You have got your kingdom, heaven. You have come to suffer this life." "No no, I cannot go." "Why?" "Now who will take responsibility for my, this suar?" (laughter)
Press Interview -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: Finish this.
Pradyumna: Asaktir anabhiṣvaṅgaḥ putra-dāra-gṛhādiṣu.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Asaktir anabhiṣvaṅgaḥ putra-dāra-gṛha. Everyone is attached. And this is ignorance. This is illusion. That developed society, community, nationality. But what is that? That attachment. But that attachment has to be taken away. That is knowledge. But we are teaching people how to become more and more attached in the name of Communism, Socialism, this ism, that ism, nationalism. These things are not given. The truth in all this means increasing putra-dāra-gṛhādiṣu. Not asakti but āsakti. Increasing ignorance. Then?
Pradyumna: Nityaṁ ca sama-cittatvam iṣṭāniṣṭopapattiṣu.
Prabhupāda: Nityaṁ ca sama-cittatvam. We should not be disturbed by this worldly disturbance. Tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. Real business is how to stop this birth, death, old age and disease. But they are not concerned with these things. They are simply disturbed with little temporary discomfort. Then?
Pradyumna: Mayi cānanya-yogena...
Prabhupāda: Mayi cānanya-yogena bhaktir...
Pradyumna: Avyabhicāriṇī.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Central point is to become devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Then?
Pradyumna: Vivikta-deśa-sevitvam aratir jana-saṁsadi (BG 13.11).
Prabhupāda: Ah. Not to mix with this rascal class of men. Aratir jana-saṁsadi. Not that I hold a meeting and some rascals give me clapping, (claps hands) I become... Don't be after this. Try to understand the reality. But we, we become political leader, and if one thousand or one lakh of people give me a few claps I think I become perfect. What you are perfect? The next moment by the laws of nature you'll be slapped and taken away. Who could save Gandhi when he was fired by the laws by the nature? That clapping would not save me. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). When Kṛṣṇa will come and put you death, what you will do? With you clapping and your bank balance. You'll be taken away.
Press Interview -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:
Indian man: Simply by chanting Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Whatever Kṛṣṇa has said we are speaking. That's all. We have no botheration. We haven't got to manufacture ideas. And that is being effective. See practically. Similarly, if you do that the whole world will be student of Bhagavad-gītā. And if you manufacture your nonsense idea it is useless. Sa kāleneha yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. Bas. Naṣṭa. So it is naṣṭa, hogya (finished). If it is lost, if it is decomposed, then what will be the benefit? Suppose if I supply you some nice foodstuff but it is rotten, naṣṭa, then what benefit you'll get? If I give you some fresh prepared nice foodstuff, you'll get some benefit out of it. But if I give you rotten thing in the name of foodstuff, then what benefit you'll get? So Kṛṣṇa says as soon as you break this paramparā system it is rotten. So, by jugglery of our words, if you present rotten things, what benefit they will get?
Indian man: What is your message for Indian people?
Prabhupāda: That people take Bhagavad-gītā as it is. You'll be benefited, the whole world will be benefited. Our thing is simple. It is stated there, yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). You learn first of all Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and you preach. They are hankering after.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Room Conversation with C.I.D. Chief -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: So you expand it. A dog is thinking, "I am this body. I am bulldog," "I am greyhound." And man is also thinking, "I am American," "I am Indian." But they do not know their real identity, and they are fighting like dogs. And this is going on in the name of civilization. And when we put forward Bhagavad-gītā, the first lesson is that aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase: (BG 2.11) "Arjuna, you are talking like a very learned man, but you are lamenting about the body. But actually..." Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ: "So far the body is con..., this is lump of matter. So whether it is dead or alive, nobody seriously think of it, no learned, paṇḍita." Of course, those who are fools, rascal, they can take it. But those who are actually learned, they do not talk about this body. So upon this statement just see the world situation. Everyone is busy on the concept of body. So what is the position of the world? Apaṇḍita, ignorance. And such people are going on as learned scholars, as politicians and leaders and so on. So how there can be peace? If you bring different types of dogs, greyhound and bulldog and Indian dog and bring them—the "United Dog Association" (laughter)—so will there be peace? That is the position. I declared in Melbourne in a public meeting that this United Nation is the unity of barking dog. I told. It was published in the paper. They also criticized me, "The Swami has come to hound." (laughter) But that is actually the fact. If you become impartial judge, not on behalf of CID or anyone, then you see the actual.
Room Conversation with C.I.D. Chief -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:
CID Chief: (laughs) I am a layman. What...?
Prabhupāda: No... You should be very kind upon... And what we can do? And if I cheat in the name of Bhagavad-gītā, then I become a great leader.
CID Chief: All nation has turned... An extraordinary order, you spreading the message of Kṛṣṇa to the world, message of Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: So at least Indians should join this movement. They're feeling the weight, the Western countries. They are opposing means that those who are thoughtful, they are thinking that "If this movement allowed to go on, then our civilization will be finished." That is their... That... They are right. They are right. If these young men, they go on under my instruction, I shall finish their civilization. That's a fact. No meat-eating in Western countries? (chuckling) No intoxication? No illicit sex? No gambling? That means their life is finished. And we are imitating, that "We are becoming advanced in civilization." And we are condemning.
Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: Read the purport.
Devotee: In this verse the words matir na kṛṣṇe refer to devotional service rendered to Kṛṣṇa. So-called politicians, erudite scholars and philosophers who read Bhagavad-gītā try to twist some meaning from it to suit their material purposes, but their misunderstandings of Kṛṣṇa will not yield them any profit. Because such politicians, philosophers and scholars are interested in using Bhagavad-gītā as a vehicle for adjusting things materially, for them constant thought of Kṛṣṇa, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is impossible (matir na kṛṣṇe). As stated in Bhagavad-gītā, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti: (BG 18.55) only through devotional service can one understand Kṛṣṇa as He is. The so-called politicians and scholars think of Kṛṣṇa as fictitious. The politician says that his Kṛṣṇa is different from the Kṛṣṇa depicted in Bhagavad-gītā. Even though he accepts Kṛṣṇa and Rāma as the Supreme, he thinks of Rāma and Kṛṣṇa as impersonal because he has no idea of service to Kṛṣṇa. Thus his only business is punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30)—chewing the chewed again and again. The aim of such politicians and academic scholars is to enjoy this material world with their bodily senses. Therefore it is clearly stated herein that those who are gṛha-vrata, whose only aim is to live comfortably with the body in the material world, cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. The two expressions gṛha-vrata and carvita-carvaṇānām indicate that a materialistic person tries to enjoy sense gratification in different bodily forms, life after life, but is still unsatisfied. In the name of personalism, this ism or that ism, such persons always remain attached to the materialistic way of life. As stated in Bhagavad-gītā:
- bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ
- tayāpahṛta-cetasām
- vyavasāyātmikā buddhiḥ
- samādhau na vidhīyate
- (BG 2.44)
"In the minds of those who are too attached to sense enjoyment and material opulence, and who are bewildered by such things, the resolute determination for devotional service to the Supreme Lord does not take place." Those who are attached to material enjoyment cannot be fixed in devotional service to the Lord. They cannot understand Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa, or His instruction, Bhagavad-gītā. Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram: (SB 7.5.30) their path actually leads toward hellish life. As confirmed by Rsabhādeva, mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ: (SB 5.5.2) one must try to understand Kṛṣṇa by serving a devotee. The word mahat refers to a devotee.
- mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha
- daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ
- bhajanty ananya-manaso
- jñātvā bhūtādim avyayam
- (BG 9.13)
"O son of Prtha, those who are not deluded, the great souls, are under the protection of the divine nature. They are fully engaged in devotional service because they know Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, original and inexhaustible." (BG 9.13) A mahātmā is one who is constantly engaged in devotional service, twenty-four hours a day. As explained in the following verses, unless one adheres to such a great personality, one cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Hiranyakasipu wanted to know where Prahlāda had gotten this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Who had taught him? Prahlāda sarcastically replied, "My dear father, persons like you never understand Kṛṣṇa. One can understand Kṛṣṇa only by serving a mahat, a great soul. Those who try to adjust material conditions are said to be chewing the chewed. No one has been able to adjust material conditions, but life after life, generation after generation, people try and repeatedly fail. Unless one is properly trained by a mahat—a mahātmā, or unalloyed devotee of the Lord—there is no possibility of one's understanding Kṛṣṇa and His devotional service."
Prabhupāda: I have seen in San Francisco, what is that (indistinct)?
Devotee: (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: I think San Francisco. What is that park?
Girirāja: Golden Gate.
Prabhupāda: Golden Gate park.
Devotee: San Diego?
Prabhupāda: No, no, San Francisco. There is a lake. So there the ducks, the male duck is attacking the female duck, what is called? When man forcibly attacks?
Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) How it will be fortune? Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā (BG 9.11). (Hindi)
Guest (1): They think like this. (Hindi) So they'll end in the same way.
Trivikrama: So how are we going to change?
Guest (1): How? Mām anusmara yuddhya ca (BG 8.7). Taking the name, believing in full in the name of the Almighty. And we have to try our level best to uplift the society, to make them educate, to guide them, provide them, to bring them on the right path. This is only way.
Trivikrama: Bhagavad-gītā says we need the guru.
Guest (1): Yes, sir, that is right, no doubt. That is correct. So they should understand on where they wanted to go, what is their goal.
Prabhupāda: There is no goal. They think after this body everything is finished.
Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: Everyone says. It is purely Indian culture, and I am not getting any help from the government although they have got cultural department. Some dancing party will go; they'll pay. That is culture. And cultural knowledge is religion. This is the position. (Hindi) Real culture is neglected. And some dancing party in the name of culture will draw money and go.
Guest (1): Perhaps he is right, Swamiji. Nobody has studied this movement deeply.
Prabhupāda: Why they don't study? It is going on worldwide. They are studying.
Indian lady (2): They do not study because they give their opinion.
Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:
Indian man: Swamiji, I get two thoughts. Number one: having acquired a family, I am willing to renounce, but would I not be running away from the responsibility, in the name of Lord Kṛṣṇa, for the bringing up and educating the children? And second thing...
Prabhupāda: You cannot educate, neither you bring. This is māyā. Do you think... Do you think that only in your presence your children will be happy? There are... Just see here in the corner, the father, mother, and the child is always, twenty-four hours, crying. The father, mother, is there. They are poor men, they are taking care, but still, the child is unhappy; it is crying twenty-four hours. There are many you'll find. So does it mean that in the presence of father, mother, a child is happy? Everyone is being conducted by his destiny. The father, mother, may be there or may not be there; his destiny will go on. This is the law of nature. You see here. Do you mean to say, because that man is poor, he's not taking care of the child? Why the child is crying twenty-four hours? So if one child is made to cry by his destiny, even in the presence of his father, mother, he has to cry. Nobody can make him happy. So this is called illusion, that "I am doing." Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). A rascal, he thinks like that. But it is not the fact. The fact is prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ. His destiny or her destiny is to suffer. So even though father, mother... Suppose a rich man's son is sick. He has engaged good physician, good doctor. Does it mean that he will guarantee life? Then what is the principle? Bālasya neha śaraṇaṁ pitarau. Prahlāda Mahārāja said that "It is not a fact that when the children are under the protection of father and mother, he's secure." Tvad-upekṣitānām: "If You neglect, that 'This child must cry; this child must die,' then even by the greatest care of the father and mother, he will die." So what is the use, saying that your duty...? Duty? That is māyā.
Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:
Guest (2): A glass without water.
Prabhupāda: If big, big men do like that, then what the followers will do? Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas lokas tad anuvartate (BG 3.21). This is the position of our country, that everyone has misguided in the name of leadership, and people are in bewilderment—"What to do?"
Guest (2): But different... I mean... It was predicted that this may happen.
Prabhupāda: What?
Guest (2): There would be Kali-yuga. Then there will be Satya-yuga after. Is it not so, predicted?
Prabhupāda: I don't think. That is stated, what you are saying, that in Kali-yuga people will be so fallen. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā (SB 1.1.10). They are mandāḥ, bad, or very slow. Mandāḥ. And they have got their own manufactured ideas, sumanda-matayo. Not only mandāḥ, but they have got their own manufactured idea. And manda-bhāgyā, unfortunate. And upadrutāḥ. The first thing, three things, upadrava, disturbances... One disturbance is there will be no rainfall, and therefore there will be scarcity of food, and government will tax like anything. People will be so harassed that they will leave their hearth and home and go to the forest. this is awaiting in the Kali-yuga. But if you take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, you'll be saved.
Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:
Girirāja: Sanātana Gosvāmī, when he suspected that they were going to steal, he told, "Get rid of it."
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) Yes. He immediately offered, "I have got this seven dollars. You take it." He was astrologer. He said, "No, you have got eight dollars. But I'll not take your money." "No, no, you take, sir. You'll not take—somebody will take. I'll give you. Kindly help me." And he chastised his servant, "Why you have taken these dangerous things? So you have got still one dollar. You go back. You don't come with me. And eight dollars I have given him. I'll be free." He thought that "Master is by sentiment leaving home and he is so opulent. Let me go with him and keep some money in case of emergency." Of course, that is... From his part it was right, but he thought that "Without this money, to remain, is more safe than to feel safety by keeping money." Because if the government is plunderer, then there is no other. This time is coming. The government will plunder in the name of taxation, and there will be no rainfall, scarcity of food. So everyone will feel very difficult to maintain the family. They'll leave voluntarily and go away. This is foretold.
Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:
Rāmeśvara: Because in these temporary guardianship cases, the court is already against us in many places.
Prabhupāda: But... Against may be, but so far the decision of the psychiatrist, we can present our psychiatrist.
Rāmeśvara: There's no equal time given. It's one-sided only.
Prabhupāda: That means in the name of justice, injustice is going on.
Rāmeśvara: Yes. This law is unconstitutional. I mentioned that there is a group of lawyers who are now organizing a committee nationwide to defend us, and they're going to prove that this law should be changed.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the right cause. Yes.
Rāmeśvara: They're already working on that. So then they say, "If you can do this to your son, then it will get national news media into the scene, and then people will learn about Hare Kṛṣṇa in particular, and all the effects of destructive cults on our youth." Then it says, "We have a legal packet which contains advice on the procedure and techniques for legal deprogramming."
Prabhupāda: So nowhere they have mentioned my name. That is good. (laughter) Otherwise, I would have been the target. That was very dangerous.
Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:
Hari-śauri: Somehow or another, they just can't do it. They can't live like that.
Prabhupāda: And now we are going to Kumbha Mela, a religious assemble. In the Western countries you don't find so much.
Rāmeśvara: No. In the 1960's in America they tried to have such assemblies, but they simply were becoming naked and having drugs—LSD, marijuana—in the name of spiritual festival. I remember very prominent festivals in America, but everyone was simply naked. They thought that was spiritual.
Prabhupāda: Naked? Fully naked?
Rāmeśvara: Yes.
Hari-śauri: They would hold the festivals sometimes in the hills with a stream. It was very popular; everybody would go to the stream and bathe naked. And then the TV would come and film. There was one big one that they had in England, and the front pages on all the newspapers was one hippie couple that... Someone had spread some foam everywhere, and in the middle of the foam this hippie couple were naked having sex, and they put the picture in all the papers. This was love and peace.
Prabhupāda: I have seen John...
Hari-śauri: John Lennon.
Prabhupāda: ...naked.
Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:
Hari-śauri: All these religious, what they call the religious cults, came immediately after the hippies. That's the big thing now. There was the growth period for those. Now they're trying to destroy them. Of course, they won't destroy us, but they've succeeded in one or two other groups. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...below one person.(?) In the name of religious men, because they are not civilized even, it is further, further. This is going on. Actually there was no such...
Rāmeśvara: And another thing that came out of the hippie movement is this abortion. Because the whole thing... The slogan was "free sex." So now they have free sex.
Hari-śauri: Women's liberation was another thing.
Rāmeśvara: All based on sex. Abortion, divorce—everything related to sex has increased.
Hari-śauri: They used to carry signs, "I want the control of my body," the women, the women's liberation.
Prabhupāda: That is woman's liberation.
Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:
Prabhupāda: You rascal, you have nothing to do. You sleep. Napoleon used to sleep for one hour, two hour. He was such a busy man. So they are so busy in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they have no time to sleep. Every great man does not sleep very much. The lazy men... (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (Hindi) Acchā. Sleeping is simply waste of time. So this is... If he does not sleep more, it is a sign of greatness.
Rāmeśvara: But they have got these crazy fools in the name of psychologists. And these psychologists...
Prabhupāda: We have got our psychologists.
Rāmeśvara: These psychologists say that if there is a lack of sleep, then the mind becomes very susceptible to another person's ideas. You can get control of him by depriving him of sleep. Just like they say... There was a war once in the country of Korea between America and China, and the prisoners, the Americans, were captured and put into these prison camps, and the Chinese tried to convert them to Communism by lack of sleep and lack of food, torture. In this way, they say, this is widely accepted that if a person has too little sleep or too little food, then you can break his will and change his life by force.
Prabhupāda: So that is all right. Then you break. Now he's quite fit for your conversion. He's now weak. You convert him to your ideas. (laughter) We have made the ground.
Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:
Rāmeśvara: ...automatically they'll give us tax exemption.
Prabhupāda: Actually India is poor. When we give food, how voraciously they eat. They cannot eat. They have no resources to eat nicely at home. That's a fact. Half-fed. At least half-fed. In the villages they are not fully fed. They have no sufficient clothing, no food, that's all. The rascal politicians, realizing heavy tax, and that is divided amongst them. It is not going to the poor. They are imitating Western way of life. They have got huge expenditure. So whatever money is coming, they are spending for their luxury, and poor men... The Gandhi's movement, boycott British goods, but they took it: "Boycott British goods and take our goods." So the consumer goods were the same. Gandhi helped to stop the British capitalist in favor of the Indian capitalist. The consumer remained in the same position, rather, worse. The foreigners, they are thinking that "These people are poor. They cannot pay more to me." And these rascals, Indian capitalists, in the name of nationalism, Birlas and others, they exploit. And they give contribution to Gandhi, Gandhi's staff, Jawaharlal Nehru's staff. And they took the opportunity that "I shall pay this rascal one lakh, and I shall utilize the ten lakhs." That's it. So the object of exploitation remained the same. Rather, by artificial inflation of money market put common men in plight, because the other day I was calculating... The things have gone high priced, thirty times, but the income has not increased thirty times. The other day I was calculating. My father's income was, utmost, three hundred rupees. So we had no scarcity. In our standard of life there was no scar... What standard of...? That standard of life is still... Now that three hundred rupees is... He calculated.
Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:
Prabhupāda: That can give temporarily.
Rāmeśvara: But there's one haṭha-yoga teacher from India who's a little well known.
Gargamuni: Yogi Bhajan?
Rāmeśvara: No. He's different. He is a sex teacher. But there is this one other haṭha-yoga teacher. I can't remember his name. He's... Viṣṇu Devananda. And he is publishing pamphlets against Maharishi, that "This is completely bogus. In the name of meditation it is completely fraud, bluff, bogus." And he mails out these pamphlets all over America. He takes out ads in the newspapers trying to expose that "This is not according to any Indian scripture."
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's a fact.
Rāmeśvara: But his movement is so nonsense, he has women sannyāsīs. Swami Māyādevī (laughter). I've seen a picture of his advertisement. "Join our camp..."
Prabhupāda: The woman sannyāsī, Rāmakrishna Mission has.
Rāmeśvara: He's... What is it? Śivānanda? Divine Light. They advertise, "Come to our summer camp for yoga practice, and our women will teach you." They are swamis.
Gargamuni: His students sued him one time because he preaches brahmācārya.
Prabhupāda: I have seen their sannyāsī kissing woman on the street.
Conversation During Massage -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:
Prabhupāda: No, he... He... When the Hindus approached him that "You have got so much influence over the Muhammadans. Stop cow-killing," he replied, "How can I stop their cow-killing? It is their religion." Just see. He accepted something as religion which is killing. He's such a rascal.
Hari-śauri: And he was nonviolent.
Prabhupāda: He was nonviolent. "In the name of religion, one can kill." This is his philosophy. He was a politician. That's all. And he indulged personally in mercy killing in his āśrama. One calf was suffering, and he asked, "Kill him. He's very much suffering." Mercy killing. He was a rascal. But we don't say publicly, because he is very much... Sometimes we say.
Hari-śauri: (laughs) Sometimes.
Prabhupāda: What he...? He's not qualified man.
Rāmeśvara: This past year Russia sponsored a war in Africa, Angola. Is it Africa or South America? It's Africa, Angola? The Russians sponsored one war. They supplied all the money, all the weapons, and they were victorious. They conquered a country through their local Communist party.
Prabhupāda: Which is?
Rāmeśvara: It's called Angola. And the Americans were trying to support the opposing side. But the public in America has got such a bad taste from Vietnam that they became what they call isolationists.
Prabhupāda: They have become hopelessly, what is called, unsuccessful in Vietnam.
Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:
Prabhupāda: By practically knowing he's a... Are you independent, anyone? Everyone is servant. He's serving his senses. That's all. He's servant. He's never master. But he has become the servant of māyā or senses. That's all. He has to change only; instead of becoming servant of māyā, be servant of Kṛṣṇa. Servant he is. Where he'll go? How he will become master? To remain a servant is his position. He cannot become master. That is false pride. As soon as he wants to be master, that is false pride. That is māyā. "So if I am servant, then I have to serve. So why shall I serve the senses' dictation? I will serve Kṛṣṇa, what He says." So he's self-realized immediately, within a second. Where is the difficulty to become self-realized? Hm? Is there any difficulty? He must know that "I am serving. I am never master. But serving the senses, that's all, whims of the senses in the name of independence." That is not possible. Very simple philosophy. One who understands, he's self-realized. And if he preaches, then he becomes recognized. On this principle we shall help everyone. "Come here. Stay with us nicely. Nicely you can. But serve Kṛṣṇa. We take responsibility." Organize in this way throughout the whole world. Give them shelter; give them food; give them cloth. That is the most benevolent welfare activity in the human society. So here people have generally tendency to come to the beach to enjoy. "All right, we shall give you a place. Come on. Stay here. You haven't got to pay anything for food or lodging. Simply attend ārati, classes. Then... For experiment, three days' period, you see."
Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:
Prabhupāda: First of all we must understand what do you mean by religion. First of all let me know. What do you mean by religion? Hm? Religion means, according to Vedic śāstra, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). "Religion means the law given by God." It is very simple. But is you do not know what is God and if you do not know what law He has given, then where is religion? This is cheating. Just like law means the principle or the regulation given by the state, by the government. That is law, not that you manufacture some law at your home, as it is going on—yato mata tato patha. You manufacture something, rascal law, and that becomes a religion. That is not religion. Religion means the law given by God, simple law. So if you do not know what is God and if you do not know what law he has given, then where is your religion? There is no religion. Without understanding of God and without understanding of the law as given by God, then there is no religion. That is cheating in the name of religion. Therefore in the Bhāgavata, from the very beginning it is said, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ vedyaṁ vāstavam atra: (SB 1.1.2) "Real religion is to be understood here." Real religion is Bhagavān speaking, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66). This is real religion. If you do not know God, if you do not know how to surrender to God, then where is your religion? If you do not know government, you do not know the law of the government, then where is the question of becoming... (break) ...therefore we are misguided. Very simple thing. Kṛṣṇa is God, and He's asking, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). What is that śaraṇaṁ vraja? Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). There is no difficulty. Where is the difficulty? Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14).
Room Conversation -- February 4, 1977, Calcutta:
Satsvarūpa: But what if it's done in a culture where this is entirely different?
Prabhupāda: Therefore there are hippies. This is your culture hippies and murderer in the name of religion. This is their culture. And abortion. Because there is no such culture, therefore the result is the abortion and killing and bombing, making the whole atmosphere abominable. This is your culture. Fighting between Protestant and Catholics, and bombing... People are terrified. They cannot go out in the street. This is your culture. And begging is bad. To keep the people, whole population, in terrified condition, that is very good, and if anyone in a humble way begs, that is bad. This is your culture. Vedic way allows the brahmacārī to beg just to learn humbleness, not beggar. Coming from very big, big family all family, they practice it. This is not begging. This is to learn how to become humble and meek. And Christ said, "To the humble and meek, God is available." It is not begging. You do not know what is this culture. You have your own culture, devil's culture, to kill even one's own child. How you'll understand what is this culture? Am I right or wrong?
Satsvarūpa: You're right.
Room Conversation -- March 2, 1977, Mayapura:
Prabhupāda: In so many ways Kṛṣṇa is trying to convince that living soul is different, completely different from matter. Acchedyo 'yam adāhyo 'yam: "It cannot be cut into pieces. It cannot be burned. It cannot be moistened. It cannot be dried up." In so many ways... "It does not take birth. It does not die. It is not finished after the body is finished." This is the greatest ignorance. And if they want to keep people in ignorance, that is not good business. In the name of education, cheating people. Why there should be education? What is the benefit?
Girirāja: Well, this gives excuse for unrestricted sense gratification, although actually there's no benefit in that. It just makes people more unhappy.
Prabhupāda: Without scientific knowledge the animals are also gratifying their senses. Why they take to the platform of education for sense gratification? What can be benefit? It doesn't require... Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. Even the birds and beasts, they have got facilities for sense gratification. The pig, they have got very good facility for sense gratification—no distinction between mother, sister, or anyone. The pig has got greater facility. So why in the name of education?
Hari-śauri: Intellectual sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: What is that intellectual?
Girirāja: I think the idea is that if everything is just coming from matter and there's no God, then there's no rules and regulations to restrict the sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: But that you could not prove. You are under some control. Why don't you see to that? You may think you are independent, but you are under control. Nobody wants to die—you die. So what is the benefit of showing that "I am independent"? (pause) Any arrangement with any bank for our temple branch? (break) What is the situation of the tenants?
Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: That I want. To keep people in darkness is not science. They are keeping people in darkness. They do not know how nature is working, how they are subjugated to the laws of nature and trying to be independent.
- prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
- guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
- ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā
- kartāham iti manyate
- (BG 3.27)
Keeping people in darkness in the name of science, now it should be stopped. That is my humble humble opinion. So your pandals...?
Girirāja: It's going on. People are still coming and... Did you see the press reports?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We showed one this morning mentioning that the member of parliament had made a statement.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: Where is another fish? There was no fish when you dug this well. These rascals are great rascals, and they are going on in the name of scientists. Another, another, where is that another? Another means that is God. These rascals, they do not know that. They simply "another." Who is that another? That is God. Simple logic. The child is there, the mother is there, there must be father. This is logic. Otherwise how the living entity came into existence? Talk on this point. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. Śāstra says in the beginning, jalajā, living entities born in the water. And they are not one kind. Not that one kind of fish is coming. Nava-lakṣāṇi. Nine hundred thousand different types of life, varieties, varieties of life. So how these rascals say that all of a sudden came another? What is that another? Answer it. What is that another? "Big, big monkey, big, big belly, Ceylon jumping, melancholy." (laughter) What is that another? That "another" is God. It is simple for us. We understand. Why? Because you are Kṛṣṇa conscious. Kṛṣṇa says ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). "I am, here I am. I am the seed-giving father." Finished. We take it. So we are in full knowledge. What is the difficulty for us? There is father. You can say another or this or that, whatever way you can say. There is father. You do not know? Here, the father says, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: "Yes, I am." We believe in Kṛṣṇa, our knowledge is perfect. You rascal, you do not believe, do not know. Then you hover in the darkness forever and remain a rascal and declare yourself a scientist. Rascal, declaring as scientist.
Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: That means you do not know, and you are passing your remark that life comes from chemicals. Such a rascal you are. You do not know what is the thing, and still, you are declaring your knowledge. You are misleading people. And you are captured, you say, "Yes, wait millions of years. We shall do it by trying." What is this nonsense? All post-dated check. So these rascals should be stopped. Speaking all lies, propaganda. Let him go to hell, I don't mind. But why they are misleading others? That is the greatest harm they have done. We attack them only for this reason. Otherwise, individually, you go to hell. Who cares for you? But in the name of science and becoming a scientist, you are misleading others. Andhā yathāndhaiḥ. You are blind rascal, and you are leading other blind men. Why you are doing these harmful activities? You are admitting that you are blindly believing. So you are blind. You remain blind if you don't accept knowledge. Why you are trying to lead other blind men? Let them have knowledge. They have got the opportunity, this human form of life. This is the opportunity to get knowledge. And you are keeping them in darkness. Is that service to the human?
Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because he says, "Thou shalt not kill."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But none of them are following.
Prabhupāda: No, all bogus. And going on in the name of Christian.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And he says he lived in our temples, but he is not satisfied with the Christian faith, but he is finding a great deal of satisfaction now living in our temples.
Prabhupāda: First of all become Christian, that you are following all the ten commandments. "Judge not others lest you be judged."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His second question is, "Considering that the Bible describes Jesus as the savior of the people of God, not only of Israel but of every man's sins, does it not minimize his actual position to say that he is simply an avatāra, and does it not contradict the teachings of the Bible...?" First of all he says isn't that minimizing him to say that he's an avatāra?
Prabhupāda: We accept him as avatāra, śaktyāveśa-avatāra, empowered incarnation of God. That we accept.
Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:
Guru dāsa: He is very favorable, Gopāla. He has your old telegram receipts. He saves them. Just like a devotee would save anything you write, he has them also.
Prabhupāda: Did you talk with him?
Guru dāsa: Not about the rooms. I just know him. Because I didn't receive the instructions until yesterday.
Prabhupāda: He formerly offered me that "You deposit in the name of Deity ten thousand," he would give me the Sevā-kuñja. So at that time ten thousand was not..., dream for me. So let him remain as he is doing, but we can do something with. You can improve by repairing and everything.
Guru dāsa: Yes. Also we have been distributing books at Rādhā-Dāmodara.
Prabhupāda: That is main business.
Guru dāsa: We have been distributing a few Gītār Gāns a day, a few magazines. To the pilgrims.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, something is there. And Hindi books?
Guru dāsa: Yes, Hindi magazine.
Prabhupāda: You have got small Hindi books?
Guru dāsa: Yes, yes. Some of those also are being distributed. Now also while I was in Delhi, on the way here, one ex-king approached a devotee about wanting to sell a place to us. He wanted to sell a house to our institution.
Prabhupāda: Where is it?
Guru dāsa: It is in Mount Abu. So they referred it to me. I went with the president of Delhi and I saw the house. And...
Prabhupāda: Mount Abu between Jaipur and Delhi?
Room Conversation -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: Another Godbrother, he asked me fifty thousand rupees to maintain his temple.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How much?
Prabhupāda: Fifty thousand. So I said, "Yes, I can give you fifty thousand, but this is mleccha money. You'll be polluted. Best thing is that give. We can maintain. I'll immediately deposit fifty thousand." He has stopped. (laughs) "We are mlecchas. I am the leader of the mlecchas, so my money will pollute you. But if you are feeling difficulty, you hand over the temple to us, and on condition I immediately deposit fifty thousand in the name of the temple."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then he was not interested. Suddenly his problems were solved. He didn't take the money.
Prabhupāda: Money is not mleccha. But when we offer to eat something, we are mleccha.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No one will take... A lot of the men, people, will not take prasādam at our temples for the same reason.
Prabhupāda: Now they are taking. And some of them are not.
Conversation: Vairagya, Salaries, and Political Etiquette -- April 28, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: That is to be discouraged. What do you think?
Girirāja: I agree.
Prabhupāda: In Los Angeles it is very freely going on. In the name of Vaiṣṇavism they are drawing salary, living comfortably, having sense enjoyment. This is not good, not at all. So you all high officers, you think over it and do the needful.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Vairāgya should be cultivated.
Prabhupāda: Vairāgya... Caitanya Mahāprabhu says clearly that niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. The bhagavad-bhajana, to become devotee of the Lord, means he's disgusted with this material world. For him, bhagavad-bhajana. Just like if I become disgusted with something, I require some change, similarly, bhagavad-bhajana is for him who is absolutely disgusted with this material world. And anyone who has got little interest in material enjoyment, he's not fit for bhagavad-bhajana. He'll have to accept again this material body, either he becomes Brahmā or becomes an ant in the stool, according to his karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur deha-upapattaye (SB 3.31.1). He'll have to develop certain type of body according to his desire of enjoyment. This is nature's law. Then where is the question of going back to home, back to Godhead? Why so many varieties of life? There is Brahmā, and there is ant in the stool. So vairāgya-vidyā-nija... Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ (SB 1.2.7), janayaty āśu vairāgyam. And vairāgyam means jñānam ca. When one is in full knowledge that "To remain in this material world is useless for me"—jñānam—"I am simply wasting my time by repetition of birth and death," then he can have vairāgya. "Stop this!" If this sense is not awakened, there is no bhakti. It is not so easy. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). That is vairāgya.
Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Trivikrama: They can't get away from Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they cannot. They can cheat, but with Gītā. They are like Gandhi. He cheated with a Gītā, in the name of Gītā. Even they cannot cheat with Gītā. Bhaja... What is that, Gītā-pravacana?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, Gītā...
Prabhupāda: That is another cheating.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: You told them in that meeting we had in Warda. You were very bold. You said, "Unless you surrender to Kṛṣṇa and understand Kṛṣṇa, it's all useless." There is one very great yogic teacher in India like Maharishi Yogi called Brahmacari Virendra or something like that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dhirendra Brahma... Prabhupāda was reading about him this morning in the newspaper.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, you were? Oh, with that case...?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda has been following.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That Dhirendra Brahmacari.
Trivikrama: Who was caught with the woman.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The so-called yogis...
Prabhupāda: All these yogis... They get cheap food, cheap women. That's all. And debauched women, in Hindu society, they cannot mix with other men, take advantage of these yogis, swamis and cheaters. Just becoming so-called devotees, they have sex attraction.(?) From both sides. Sex... Sex impulse is so strong that in different ways it should be taken, as a yogi, as a swami, as a gṛhastha, as a debauch, as a loafer. All... The central point is sex. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukham (SB 7.9.45).
Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:
Indian man (5): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) ...that why we shall misinterpret Bhagavad-gītā? Kṛṣṇa was less intelligent, that He left Bhagavad-gītā to be interpreted by some rascal philosopher or politician? He was not intelligent enough to clear the idea? If Kurukṣetra is meant "body," why you should bring in the name of Kurukṣetra the bodily conception of life? What is this? Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ, māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāḥ (BG 1.1). Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre is still there. Why Kurukṣetra should be interpreted as something else?
Indian man (1): You have cautioned that hither, in this translation.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Indian man (1): You have cautioned that hither, to read the Bhagavad-gītā as it is.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the way. And their purpose is that "Bhagavad-gītā should be utilized for my rascaldom." This is going on. (Hindi) This is our mission. Don't manufacture nonsense. It will never be successful.
Conversation with M.P., Shri Sita Ram Singh -- May 19, 1977, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: Simply nonsense. So what is remedy? Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). All over the world... Of course, we do not want to criticize, but according to śāstra, people will suffer more and more. And they must suffer. Because they are becoming godless, they must suffer. That is nature's punishment.
- daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī
- mama māyā duratyayā
- mām eva ye prapadyante
- māyām etāṁ taranti te
- (BG 7.14)
They won't take the real culture given by God Himself, Kṛṣṇa, "Do like this." Therefore they are godless. They must suffer. Now the suffering is awaiting to the general mass of people. Durbhikṣa... Anāvṛṣṭi-durbhikṣa-kara-pīḍitāḥ (SB 12.2.9). There will be no rain from the sky, and therefore there will be no sufficient grains. Anāvṛṣṭi-durbhikṣa. And in the name of improving the situation, government will tax. Kara-pīḍitāḥ. In this way, so the people in general, they'll be so much harassed that, without being able to manage things... Ācchinna-dāra-draviṇā gacchanti giri-kānanam. "Let whatever I may have to the family eating. Let me go." This is the position.
Discussions -- June 2, 1977, Vrndavana:
Girirāja: "And Śrīdhara Goswami. The committee members who have herein been designated are appointed for life. In the event of the death or failure to act for any reason of any of the said committee members, a successor committee member or committee members may be appointed by the remaining committee members, provided that the new committee member is an initiated disciple and following strictly all the rules and regulations of ISKCON as detailed in the books of His Divine Grace..." Oh. "...detailed in my books, and provided that there are never less than three or more than five committee members acting at one time. 4. I have created, developed and organized the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, and as such, I hereby will that none of the immovable properties in India in the name of ISKCON shall ever be mortgaged, borrowed against..."
Prabhupāda: Why India? Everywhere. Everywhere.
Rāmeśvara: See, in America sometimes we will borrow against the temple to "fry the fish in its own oil." So we wanted to make this language just for India, that they can never even mortgage it or risk it in any way.
Prabhupāda: All right. But outside they can do?
Rāmeśvara: Outside they have...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatākā Mahārāja just said that the temple buildings should never be mortgaged. Other buildings might be, but what about the temple buildings? Just like in Los Angeles you have many buildings. The temple building should never be mortgaged, but others may be.
Prabhupāda: There is a word, devāyatana,(?) Indian. Devāyatana property can never be mortgaged, sold or risked. (background whispering)
Discussions -- June 2, 1977, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: What is benāmadāra?
Girirāja: It means... Just like in the Chand Society. Due to some reason we could not take in the beginning in the name of BBT, so we appointed someone to keep in his name, but actually it is not his. He is the only the benāmadāra on behalf of the society.
Prabhupāda: Oh, benāmadāra.
Rāmeśvara: "...that I am the benāmadāra of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness in respect of the said properties, and I hold and do hold these same in trust as a trustee for the said society." No, we take out this phrase, "trust." "...that I hold the same for the said society."
Girirāja: No, "as the Founder-Ācārya..."
Rāmeśvara: "...as the Founder-Ācārya; 4. that I further declare, say and confirm that I have no personal claim or interest in these said properties or any..." It says, "position alone...," "...and the same solely belongs to the said society, the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, absolutely. That which is stated above is true to the best of my knowledge, information and belief. Witnessed..." The witnesses swear to that.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: So if this document is prepared, it does not have to be advertised, but if at any point there is some contention, we can show that this was...
Prabhupāda: Made.
Rāmeśvara: ...made in June of 1977, that this is the...
Prabhupāda: Registered.
Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: Chance? Chance is science?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we are proving that all their theories are wrong.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: One by one.
Prabhupāda: Yes, do that. Why one should be kept in darkness in the name of science? This is our proposal. Jñāna-khale. Sarasvatī-jñāna-khale yad asati. Jñāna-khala. We have got this knowledge. Why should we suppress this knowledge? We must distribute. These rascals will keep the whole human society in suppressed knowledge.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: For money.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Cheating.
Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: Then they changed?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Then they became little... They opened up their mouth and then started talking. Then, once they start talking, then we can generate some platform where we can actually discuss. This Amrtabhal Sena is a professor in Bose Institute. Firstof all he asked my qualifications, said what, what do I have. Then I said I studied in the States, and I had this degree, and I was working this line. Actually I told him all the sophisticated experiments that we did when I was studying. And he was very impressed with those ideas or experiments that I did which they don't do here. Then he asked me... First of all he was interested "How you became... How you left those things and become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa?" Then I... At that point I got the opportunity to explain how science is an attempt to see the unknown laws of nature, in other words to find at least the ultimate cause or the Absolute Truth. Vaguely it's an attempt at least amongst those highly thoughtful scientists. They think like that. But we are seeing at this stage of our scientific age that science is not giving those answers. Rather, science is failing. We thought we would do like this, that, and so many experiments and so much knowledge we uncovered, but we do not know anything about life, so there are limitations of this scientific knowledge. So there must be something higher. It cannot be the finishing stage at this moment. So there must be something higher. It cannot be the finishing stage at this moment. So there must be something higher beyond what we know so far. That is why I was interested in knowing more about the principles of life. It cannot be just coming momentarily for some time and staying and getting a family and getting some false prestige. That cannot be the ultimate. There must be something higher. Then he began to understood what I meant and he accepted, "Yes, it's true." That he agreed, "Yes, we are not... The knowledge that we have is not able to give all the answers. In fact, science doesn't know anything about life. But we are leaving this most important knowledge of life and just studying something garbage in the name of scientific knowledge."
Prabhupāda: (laughs) You have fatally...(?)
Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually if these two things, that life comes from life and this concept of the universe, two points are clear, then everything is taken care of.
Prabhupāda: Very good. Their false propaganda... (pause) (break) Scientists, they should seriously charge for the prestige of their Vedic knowledge. "Yes, my... Yes, sir, you are stating." What is this nonsense? "You are creating some rascals? Yes, my lord." In the name of education.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I made an advertisement in M.I.T. saying that... Korana is the man who synthesized this gene... They thought that might life. So I was putting in an M.I.T. newspaper in the campus, saying that "Korana's gene is not life, and virus is not life. These are all molecules. They have nothing to do with life." So we have a lecture coming up next month, July 10th, in the M.I.T. campus, so three of us are going to speak on life coming from life. Because this is an M.I.T. campus, so there'll be many people from his group coming, because it is directly challenging the biggest group in the United States about this...
Prabhupāda: So do they accept?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, and some Indians are on our side, specially this Indian Student's Association, and also there is an association called Indian Association for Greater Boston. The president and the secretary came to me, and they are supporting us.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So they're organizing these lectures, so we have a show on July 10th.
Prabhupāda: Make a great agitation. It will be done, if you work. (pause) A great challenge of the Bhaktivedanta Institute, for the whole world. Is it not?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes.
Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: Actually the body is changing. All his efforts-futile. And he is eternal.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is also a blow to the communist world, Communism also. It has several effects.
Prabhupāda: That scientist said life slipped away from his...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, somehow life escaped from his fingers. So that's a proper word. I'm quoting his word, using it as an authentic quote from them. We also use some words which will be not so favorable when they read these things, our things. We're also trying to criticize them, that they are...
Prabhupāda: That do.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...intellectually dishonest, try to propagate a false knowledge in the name of scientific knowledge.
Prabhupāda: That moon hoax.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just like this man, Crick, is the Nobel Prize winner. He's from Cambridge, a very famous man at this time. He says, "Once we accept that we come from chemicals, then we have a whole new culture which is..." He doesn't say what that culture is. He says, "We'll have a whole new culture, and everything will be so easy." And that culture... We spelled out that that culture is meaninglessness and voidism.
Prabhupāda: Only useless labor.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. (long pause) (end)
Gurukula Inspection -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana:
Indian man (4): The other day two parents have come, and they have said, "We will give our two boys and let them be first class, for the school here."
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) That is... (Hindi) This is the defect of modern civilization. And Kṛṣṇa wants to impress in the beginning, na jāyate na mriyate vā. (Hindi) Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). (Hindi) This darkness is going on. People are kept in darkness in the name of so-called university education. This is... (Hindi) It will be successful. It may take time. That's all.
Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) ...this manager, that manager. But who to manage? Bring that first. (Hindi) In Bengali there is a superstition that "Don't keep your head towards the northern side." So the man said, "I have no head. Where is the question of keeping northern side or southern side?" So you are contemplating all management. First of all bring whom to manage. Simply office manager, this, that and... Bambhārambhe laghu-kriyā. (Hindi) All right.
Guṇārṇava: Take Prabhupāda to the bank.
Prabhupāda: Utilize it very properly. So where is the bank manager?
Akṣayānanda: They're calling for him, Prabhupāda.
Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Three hundred dacoits attacked our temple, and there was fighting, and five of the devotees were in the hospital. Bhavānanda Mahārāja, he was arrested 'cause he fired a gun. He shot two of them and put them in the hospital, so they arrested him. And that's all he told me. Three hundred dacoits attacked. He said Jayapatākā is now there. Jayapatākā wasn't there. He was traveling and preaching. So he's there now. He's sending a report to you, a more detailed report. And they want... Jayapatākā Mahārāja wants Śatadhanya Mahārāja to go immediately there because Bhavānanda is in jail, arrested. And they want Prabhāsa to come, because the gun, the gun that Bhavānanda Mahārāja used is in the name of Prabhāsa. And Gopāla Kṛṣṇa is going there tomorrow. He's also going there.
Prabhupāda: So why attacked?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, the only thing we could guess is that now the government is Communist. So it may be that these were Communist-inspired dacoits. I mean, three hundred, if there was actually... It must have been quite a huge number. That means they were organized. It's not some ordinary village dacoits to have such a huge number of them. So the Communists, maybe they did this. It's hard to understand until we get the report from Jayapatākā. He said he's sending it.
Prabhupāda: And police did not help?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, it was in the middle of the night.
Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: Organized very nice. Hm. "Gargamoney." (laughter)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Kindly fill in the form below to receive your first volumes." Then it says, "Name and age, date of purchase, address, city, state, country, type of business, phone, number of sets to be purchased." Number of sets to be purchased. It's very hopeful. "Whether encyclopedia is for personal use or other, please explain." 'Cause they're going to keep a file to see what people use it for. "Number of books to be received each year. Amount given as advance." He says, "At least fifty percent of the total cost can be given for the complete set as advance, and balance to be made in yearly installments. Signature of purchaser. Please note: The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust shall fulfill its obligation to supply all books to the purchaser as agreed upon and shall ship all books postage prepaid to any part of the world. Dated and signature of the salesman. Checks to be made out in the name of Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, Bombay. The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust Library Encyclopedia of Vedic Knowledge, Founder-Ācārya His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. Recommendations and appreciations by leading scholars of India on the BBT Library Encyclopedia of Vedic knowledge." He seems to have got a lot... I don't know how he did this. It says... These are different recommendations. It's from the Minister of Education, Government of Maharastra. Shrimati Patiba Patel. " 'I therefore wholeheartedly recommend this encyclopedia of our culture and all BBT publications to all educational institutions, schools, libraries and colleges concerned with the moral and cultural development of their students within the boundary of Maharastra and throughout the world.' " See, each one he has the word encyclopedia bold and underlined. "Ph.D. from Harvard University." All different big personalities. "The Mayor of Bombay. Padma Bhushan, Vice-Chancellor of Baroda University. Professor of Gujarati language, Gold Medal winner and author of 36 Gujarati books." Another man. "Award-winning Gold-medalist in Gujarati literature." "Award-winning author in Sindhi literature." All these people are giving their recommendations. "Award-winning author in Sindhi literature." "Head of the Department of Sanskrit at Bombay University." "Head of the Department of Sindhi in RC College, Bombay." Then he has a review by P. M. Joshi. "Dr. P. M. Joshi, past director of Archives and Historical Monuments, Maharastra government; past professor in charge of History, Bombay and Poona University." So many different titles. Then he has one from Prabhudas P. Patwaria, a governor of Tamil Nadu. And another one from the Deputy Director, Research of the Lok Sabha. Would you like to see some more things, Śrīla Prabhupāda? The next one looks... This next one is also from Gargamuni. It includes a letter, Śrīla Prabhupāda. "My dear Śrīla Prabhupāda, please accept my humble obeisances at your divine lotus feet. We fervently pray that Your Divine Grace continue to remain in this world because we need your personal guidance. Even when Lord Kṛṣṇa disappeared, Arjuna lost all strength temporarily."
Prabhupāda: I shall remain your personal guidance, physically present or not physically, as I am getting personal guidance from my Guru Mahārāja.
Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The onus is on them.
Prabhupāda: You do it, without God. Then I take it seriously. Otherwise empty voice simply, nonsensical.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Elders should be careful to give sound knowledge based on objective evidence to their children. Unfortunately a lot of delusional ideas are put into the minds of children in the name of religion. Dāsa and Swami talk about rebirth, soul, Supreme Soul, life generating matter, etc.... As a result of such delusional ideas put into them by deluded Indian God-man, Prabhupāda, who founded the bizarre cult know as Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Oh, he's a real demon, this man. Kṛṣṇa has a place already put aside for him. His science won't help him at that time. "Knowledge and enlightenment cannot be had through meditation, which is only a form of self-hypnosis. Dāsa and Swami ask whether scientists can make a chicken to come out of a plastic egg. I do not know whether they are aware that scientists have made over ten elements, such as fermium, (indistinct), serium..." That's all right. We're asking about a chicken. We're not asking about the elements.
Prabhupāda: Rascal, you are simply producing empty sound. Where is the chicken? Rascal. The chicken, the hen, is greater scientist than you. (S)he'll produced another egg within a week. You simply "This, that, this, that, this, that," that's all. "Left, right, that way." What is your value? We don't give you value. Less important than the chicken.
Room Conversation -- October 9, 1977, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: ...to deliver to the banks?
Girirāja: We have the copy of that letter with their stamp that they received it.
Prabhupāda: So what is that copy? What you have written?
Girirāja: Well, we wrote two letters, because the fixed deposits are in the name of ISKCON Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma Temple Maintenance. So we said that "We are holding the following fixed deposits in your Vṛndāvana branch," and then we gave the list of the numbers and the amount and when it is due, and we said, "Please arrange to transfer these to your main branch in New Delhi." And then another letter for those in the name of ISKCON Vṛndāvana-Māyāpur Trust. Same contents. So then they wrote back that we should write the same letter addressed to the Vṛndāvana branch and with a copy to them, and we should give the original and the copy to them, and they will present the original to the Vṛndāvana branch and get them to transfer the money. And the second point is that they wanted us to give them the fixed deposit receipts, and they said they would give us a receipt. But we are hesitating to do that, because we are afraid if they give those receipts to the Vṛndāvana branch, then they may keep them. So we want to propose that the Vṛndāvana people should transfer the money and they should prepare a new receipt for the Delhi branch. And when the new receipt is prepared, they can give us the new receipts and we will give them the old receipts.
Prabhupāda: Very good. (break) They should give in writing.
Room Conversation With Svarupa Damodara -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And the bank manager said he was... I think he's one of the top men in the bank. He's completely disgusted—these were his own words—with how they have arranged things here, and he's going to completely redecorate this office, putting in rugs and full furniture and waiting facilities, and make it a first-class office. He says he cannot understand how this has been allowed to go on like this in the name of Punjab Bank. And he's having a new manager brought here who has been trained in Delhi, a younger man who is a little bit more capable of making proper decisions and acting in a nice way. And every single request...
Prabhupāda: But the defect is that here the head manager does not know English.
Doctor Visit and Conversation -- October 20, 1977, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then it's simple. It's only if they get the receipt in their own name...
Prabhupāda: No, in my name.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That should be the point, that the receipt has to be issued in the name of the owner of the flat. Then it's all clear. And that's correct, actually.
Prabhupāda: Make it like that.
Bhavānanda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're talking about Panchashil.
Prabhupāda: So do the needful.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatākā Mahārāja, if someone owns a flat and someone else is allowed to live there, if the person who's allowed to live there, but doesn't pay rent, when he pays taxes, the receipt for the taxes should be issued in the owner's name, isn't it?
Prabhupāda: If other owners are doing that, do that for us, in my name.
Doctor Visit and Conversation -- October 20, 1977, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: If other owners are doing that, do that for us, in my name.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Actually, Śrīla Prabhupāda, automatically the receipts will probably come in your name.
Jayapatākā: We pay the land tax. And receipt is given on the owner of the land, but it mentions who gave it as a matter of fact, but it's given in the name of the owner.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So can they claim any right as a tenant based upon the fact that they paid the taxes? All right, anyway, let us see. I mean, I understand your desire. We'll try and encourage them to fulfill your desire, that they live there and be happy. (background conversations) See, I think one of the things that should be done is that they should sign. Vrindavan should sign an agreement saying that he agrees not to sublet it to anybody else. Because right now there's no such agreement at all. We're letting them live there, and they can do whatever they want. When he comes here... He'll be coming here. So when he comes here he should sign an agreement that he agrees not to sublet or to let anyone else except the family members live in this apartment.
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana:
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, he didn't know the real cause.
Prabhupāda: They do not know. They use machine. Their means of knowing-machine. They do not know.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I have many medical friends. They frankly admit that oftentimes they kill the patients in the name of treating. It comes out that it was their own medicine that they gave.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Recently that Dalmia secretary... What is his name?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hita-sarana Sharma.
Prabhupāda: In pathology his prescription was replaced by another.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't follow. Recently whose?
Upendra: Prescription was replaced by another.
Prabhupāda: He had some trouble. So, what is called? Pathology?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Pathology? No.
Prabhupāda: No, laboratory testing?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What's laboratory test called?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Pathology?
Bhavānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So his case was transferred to another.
Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And we discussed a number of points. One thing is that I talked to him about Panchashil flat. So I explained to him that he should feel the responsibility for paying for the living there, as we have given him this nice place. So he's agreed to do that. And I told him that whatever he pays, the receipts should be in your name, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami. Apparently the receipts have been issued in the name of M. M. De. So I told him don't do that, because if they get the receipts in their name then they become the tenant. I don't want that. They're living there as our guest, not as tenants. So he agreed to that. As soon as I mentioned it, he understood what I was talking about. M. M. is a little clever. So then I told him, however, that the permanent electricity was never hooked up. Permanent electricity line was never installed. So since that was an initial giving of the flat, I told him that if he paid for half of that, we would pay the other half. I said but first of all he has to pay and send me the receipt showing that he's paid. It's about 650 rupees.
Prabhupāda: Six hundred and fifty?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Half. It's thirteen hundred total. This is for permanent connection of electricity. The flat never has had a permanent connection. The whole building is not permanent. It's a temporary line. So all the...
Prabhupāda: Yearly?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no. Once and for all. It's a permanent installation of a permanent line. The yearly electricity bill he'll pay. That's his business. Then he seems to want to repay this amount that we're giving from the postal receipts. So I have no objection. If he repays, then we'll simply follow the original scheme and divide it up accordingly. Or he can divide it up. I don't know why he wants to pay it back. I don't know. I've explained to him that it's a donation. But anyway, it's better he pays it back, and then we can give it to each of the persons involved. I don't think there's any need of taking any loan agreement or anything, is there? Is there any need?
Prabhupāda: I don't think so.
Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You mean generally to keep everything in order. Yes, I have a very good hold on it. Some things... You know, because formerly they never kept these things down. Now I'm finding out things. But whenever I get extra information, I note it. Pretty much I have all of the things in order. Just like now I just found out for the first time that he's getting a monthly interest from one of the fixed deposits in the name of BBT. That was never noted. So when I find out the amount, I'll just note it. Then I can deduct it each month from the account that I'm keeping. Like that, sometimes I get new information.
Prabhupāda: So you have to search out.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, but I've actually been doing that. And I've also been checking whenever they give interest that it's exactly the right amount. I make sure each year they credit the interest, keeping watch carefully of the fixed deposits to see when they come matured, like that.
Prabhupāda: Only thing is that M. M. De and Sulaksmana. They should not be given more than twelve...(?) (two hundred...?)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The only thing is about M. M. De? I've just dictated a letter to the Central Bank of India. I'm going to send this letter to Girirāja that...
Prabhupāda: He has become Communist.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're giving him no..., 250 now, but 750 is put in fixed deposit for him. The total is a thousand rupees he's getting. He only gets 250. But the other part is put into fixed deposit for seven years. I don't want to change that letter to the bank, because we've given it as a standing order now.
Prabhupāda: He can simply get...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Two-fifty.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Room Conversation -- October 29, 1977, Vrndavana:
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We met. Svarūpa Dāmodara and I spent an hour at Bhagatji's house. Bhagatji brought him. So he's going to do that Trust. He says in three or four days time he can finish it, Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust, with the aims and objects we have given. Then I talked about that squandering amendment. So he explained that the best way to do it is that we amend it to say that they always get 250 rupees for their maintenance, and the other 750 rupees, instead of fixing it in their names, fix it in the name of ISKCON, and ISKCON executors of the will shall see that they give them the money at the time of seven years for the purposes of three: purchasing property, business, and for buying government stocks. And the profits from those, they can do anything they want with. He said don't let them put the 750 rupees in their name, because then they can do anything they want with it, squander it. But if you put the money in fixed deposit in ISKCON's name, then ISKCON can give them the money after seven years, for those three purposes. So if you approve, then he can make an amendment clause, and then you can sign it, and then it can be done. He understood everything very perfectly. He said actually... He understood it perfectly. Actually, because everything belongs to ISKCON, the whole will is more or less a moral, spiritual guidance, because legally everything is already ISKCON's. So I said, "But we want it to be morally and guided spiritually. To us, this is the will. Whatever this will says, we must follow as Prabhupāda's disciples." He said, "Then I can make an amendment, which would be like that, that every month they'll get 250 rupees for their whole lifetime, and the 750 rupees will be put in fixed deposit for seven years in the name of ISKCON, and at the end of that, the ISKCON executors of the will, will give them each the money each month, fifteen hundred rupees, for the purpose of..., in those three ways, and that the money should not be squandered." He said that way, if ISKCON sees that the money is being squandered, then they stop giving them that money and they'll just give 250 rupees. Two hundred fifty rupees they must get. And Radharani De, she may get always one thousand rupees. She is older. Let her have that. Whatever she does is her business with the money. And, I think, it is a very good way. And we'll all make sure that they get the money, but they must use it properly. It's Kṛṣṇa's money.
Prabhupāda: And they'll remain in that house lifetime.
Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: Where is podda? (?)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your sister. I'm just calling right now. (break) (long pause-Śrīla Prabhupāda is sleeping) ...of the different businesses of Vrindavan? Well, first of all he was getting money for traveling expenses. So I have written a letter to Mr. Bekkar, the manager of the Central Bank of India at Camac Street, informing him that henceforward the interest from the fixed deposits in the name of BBT should be stopped from giving it to Vrinda Book Company, and instead the money should be transferred by mail transfer to the Central Bank of India, Gwalior Tank Road, to BBT account. I gave all the details. That's one letter. Then furthermore, I also addressed a letter to the Punjab National Bank, Brabourn Road, informing them that the Rs. 500 should be stopped from being given to Shrimati Radharani De, because... I didn't mention this, but the reason is that she'll be getting one thousand rupees from Indian Overseas Bank. And I'm sending that letter...
Prabhupāda: Oh... Has Indian Overseas arranged?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Let me explain what I was going to say. The letter to Punjab Bank I have not sent to the bank. Rather, I have sent it to Girirāja and informed him that when the Indian Overseas Bank sends their first transfer of Rs. 1000, then he may send the letter to Punjab Bank regarding Radharani De. In other words, when we first get it confirmed...
Prabhupāda: Why not Punjab National Bank, as they are sending, let them send and ask Overseas five hundred?
Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: What...? The... In the Punjab National Bank, fixed deposits in the name of?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fixed deposits are in the name of... Five lakhs are in the name of Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma Temple Maintenance account, and five lakhs, sixty thousand in the name of Māyāpur-Vṛndāvana Trust.
Prabhupāda: Oh. So where they will kept?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The interest or the fixed deposits? The fixed deposits are in Delhi, and the interest, for now, for the next few months, I am instructing the bank to continue to transfer to the accounts here in Vṛndāvana that it's always been given to. Then when the Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust account is opened, I will issue a fresh instruction to the Parliament Street bank that the interest money should be transferred to that account in Navadvīpa or wherever we open the account. My idea was simply that since the money is to be spent in Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi, then when we write checks out, etcetera, from that account, it's much easier to encash it rather than having to go to Delhi for encashment.
Prabhupāda: No, why Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi? Whenever needed...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, you said that the purpose of the Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust was for development of Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi. That was your original... At least that's what you initially told us.
Prabhupāda: Mm. Which is better? Which is better?
Room Conversation -- November 5, 1977, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: This thing? What is that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your signatures were fairly good. Some of them were very good. They remarked that the signature was strong... (break) I tried to make it as quick as possible. Now I have the receipts, and I will keep them locked in the almirah just like we did last time. And after about one week we'll be able to get the original documents after they've been registered. In the meantime, on Monday we're going to open up a bank account in the name of Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust in Punjab National Bank, New Delhi. Girirāja, who is the secretary of the Trust, and Bhavānanda Mahārāja, who are the treasurers, will open the account. So the interest from the fixed deposits will go directly into that account. Is that nice? That was your idea. And the bank will be happy that we're keeping the money in their bank. All of your plans are perfect, Śrīla Prabhupāda. And our perfection is simply to carry them out without changing in any way. You have such complete plans that we don't have to do anything new. We have to work our whole lifetime simply to carry out what you've planned. Even then we won't be able to complete everything. We'll have to trust to those who come after us to finish everything. So I'll just finish everything now with them, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and lock everything away, and then I'll come back. I don't want to leave Girirāja alone. It's nice to do everything together, two. I'll come right back afterwards. (break)
Prabhupāda: The Trust deed somebody may read.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. I can bring it just now.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Room Conversation -- November 6, 1977, Vrndavana:
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, embryo.
Prabhupāda: So science means to know everything, not only theoretically. They say "automatically."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Their knowledge is so unscientific, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The knowledge that they propose, chance, is so unscientific. Sometimes I wonder. In the name of science they make the most unscientific remarks.
Prabhupāda: The answer is there: "Here is my father." They'll not accept. Without father, how there can be son? You do not know who is the father. Why the particular tree is giving particular fruit, particular flower, and this is exactly like...? What do they answer?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They actually have no answer.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) From the rose tree, why rose flower come, not other flower? This is a species. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. They have no knowledge.
Room Conversation -- November 6, 1977, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: Can you... If you are able to... (mic moving) Subscribe within our jurisdiction so much land. Otherwise they will sublet(?) it. Why you have purchased agricultural land?
Jayapatākā: We will purchase in the... We'll get a permit from the government to hold more land. And until that time, then we'll purchase in the name of Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, Svarūpa Dāmodara.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? We can also purchase in the name of Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust.
Jayapatākā: A trust can hold fifty bighās of irrigated land, seventy bighās unirrigated. And once we turn that... If we turn that to nonagricultural land, then there's no limit. By paying twice the land tax we can convert to nonagricultural for the purpose of building our temple or building anything, and then it's no longer subject to any ceiling. We will see with lawyer very carefully that...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you can purchase in Svarūpa Dāmodara's name.
Bhavānanda: This land is for sale from whom? Muhammadans?
Jayapatākā: Yes, both Muhammadan and Hindu.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should we buy this land, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Why not? You have got money?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. There is enough money.
Jayapatākā: We do not want to rest until every home in Bengal has a copy of Gītār Gān and Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Room Conversation -- November 8, 1977, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: You were reading something?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No. Girirāja: Oh, Tamāla Kṛṣṇa. He's... (break) Yesterday I spent the day in Delhi, and I opened an account with the Punjab Bank in the name of Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust. And we also gave them a letter that the interest from the ten lakhs sixty thousand should go into that Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity account. And I took the original trust of the new trust, the original deed, and I made some photocopies and got them notarized by notary. Prabhupāda: Photocopy of? Girirāja: Of the trust deed forming the Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust. And then I bought a copy of the income tax act, because there's some provision that if funds are used to restore some ancient place of worship or some place of worship which is famous in a particular state, then that is exempt from income tax. So I think that this fits in with the aims and objects of this new trust. So we should be able to get tax exemption for that. I spoke to Bombay to see how things were doing, and Gopāla Kṛṣṇa said that everything is going nice, and he's coming here on Friday, after two days. So I told him that your condition was very serious and that I wanted to stay here for a little longer. So he said that was okay. I confirmed with Yaśodānandana Swami's assistant that he sent the letter to the South Indian brāhmaṇas to confirm that they can come on the dates which we have fixed. So we're waiting to hear that reply. Prabhupāda: You can take some brāhmaṇa from here. Balaram... Girirāja: Yes. Prabhupāda: They'll chant Veda-mantra very nice.
| Page Title: | In the name of... (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 26 of Mar, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=143, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 143 |