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In the middle (Conversations)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: The first scene is that people passing on with saṅkīrtana movement as we have, as we usually do, very nice procession with mṛdaṅga, karatālas and that bugle, all people, just in the ordinary way. We have to make a nice procession. The second scene is that Kali, the personified Kali, a person should be decorated blackish. A blackish man with royal dress and very ugly features. And his queen, another ugly featured girl or lady. So they are disturbed. They'll talk between themselves that "There is saṅkīrtana movement now and how we shall prosecute our business of this Kali-yuga?" There will be, in that scene, in some corner somebody is drinking. Two or three persons drinking. The scene will be like that. They are sitting in the center. In one corner somebody taking part in drinking, and another part somebody is illicitly talking of lust and love with woman. In another section there is slaughtering of a cow, and another section gambling. In this way that scene should be adjusted. And in the middle, the ugly man, black man, and the ugly woman will talk that "We are now in danger. The saṅkīrtana movement has been started. What to do?" In this way you have to finish that scene.

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Hayagrīva: Well, that's an outcome of this meeting anyway.

Prabhupāda: When Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya was meeting the King, the King inquired that "I have heard that there is a big sannyāsī has come here. What is the details of the sannyāsī? I've heard that you have also become a disciple." So Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya explained, "Yes, He's not ordinary sannyāsī. He's Kṛṣṇa Himself so far I've studied." So Bhaṭṭācārya, he was authority, a great learned man. And the King, when he heard that He is Kṛṣṇa, he also became a devotee. So all expenditure, all everything was supplied by the King and his officers to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So many people... Always four hundred, five hundred men were visiting Him. So whoever would come he would supply food and place. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He began His chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa in the Jagannātha temple. The same scene is being performed here before the Jagannātha temple, Lord Caitanya is dancing. When we perform the class I remembered that scene. Yes. That Caitanya Mahāprabhu is dancing before Jagannātha. Every evening four parties. In each party four mṛdaṅga and eight karatālas. So one party this side, one party this side, one party back side, one party front side, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu in the middle would dance and the four parties will chant Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa... That was going on every evening so long He stayed at Jagannātha Purī.

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview with LA Times Reporter About Moon Trip -- December 26, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Reporter: And he was opposed by the demigods?

Prabhupāda: Demigods, or the residents in the heavenly planet.

Hayagrīva: Like I mentioned, there are three planets, three... There are the lower planetary systems, middle planetary systems, and higher planetary systems. And this earth is considered to be in the middle planetary system of the universe. It's called a middle planet.

Reporter: Would that relate to anything that we're talking about?

Prabhupāda: In the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated that there are three planetary system, upper, lower and middle. So ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti, those who are in the modes of goodness, they are allowed to live in the upper planetary system. And those who are in the modes of passion, they are allowed to live in this middle planetary system, and those who are in the modes of ignorance, they are allowed to live in the lower planetary system.

Reporter: Now where would the moon planet fit?

Prabhupāda: Moon planet is the upper. That is the beginning of upper planetary system. Still upper, upper, upper, there are many layers.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 11, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: Yes.

Prabhupāda: I think in the beginning we should have kīrtana.

Allen Ginsberg: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And at the end we should have kīrtana. And in the middle we can speak, you can speak about Kṛṣṇa Consciousness.

Allen Ginsberg: I think you'd better speak because you're more eloquent on it and also you understand in the language...

Prabhupāda: I'll speak and you'll also speak.

Allen Ginsberg: You might not like what I say. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: No you say your experience, how you're experiencing. That's all.

Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: It is simply adjustment. You can make very nice scene. Everything can be done nice, provided we arrange for that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Nara-nārāyaṇa, he is very good at building scenery. He can do all of that very quickly.

Prabhupāda: So you'll play in the stage or make studio?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Better that we play either in a big area so we can be right in the middle of people. People will be all around.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. That will be very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because then we include them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the system. That is called jātrā in India. That is very good system. There is no stage, but by words and feelings everyone becomes absorbed, and chanting. So that will be very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We will have kīrtana, maybe seven to ten kīrtanas in the play, so everybody will be joining in.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they'll be asked to join.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Now, the difficulty is don't try to invent something about God. That is not good.

Guest (1): No, not invention.

Prabhupāda: No, you have to take the version of the śāstras; then it will be possible. If you invent something, try to speculate on something, it will not be successful.

Guest (1): I'm not, you see... In the middle, I may be speculating or you see, trying to... Coming to the human aspect itself, now so many want happiness. Happiness is checked up because of...

Prabhupāda: That material coating.

Guest (1): Material things.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): Now, we want... Because this want is there... Want is made by own nature and there is no way throughout our... Now when we earning means there's so much contami..., mean, sea of...

Prabhupāda: That is not happiness.

Television Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Prabhupāda: Yes. that's all right. We say in that connection that if you have got a name which is actually referring to God, that will also do. Just like we are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare. So according to Vedic literature, kṛṣṇaś tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is the... He has got many names. Thousands and millions of names. This is the original name. So Caitanya says not that you have to chant Kṛṣṇa, but if you have got actually a name for God, you can chant that. We are not asking you that you chant Kṛṣṇa. If you have got actually a name for God, then you can chant that. We are requesting that you chant God's holy name.

Interviewer: But before... When you came here... Now you came here in the middle sixties, less than a decade ago. What was it? This is what I'm trying to find out from you. What was the motivating force behind your coming to the United States?

Prabhupāda: That is already explained. That is already explained. Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted that this propaganda should be made all over the world and they will accept. So my Guru Mahārāja said that "You go and try to do this." So I came with this purpose. And it is happening.

Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Prabhupāda: So according to Vedic literature, kṛṣṇaś tu bhagavān svayam: (SB 1.3.28) Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is the... He has got many names, thousands and millions of names; this is the original name. So Caitanya says not that you have to chant "Kṛṣṇa," but if you have got actually a name for God, then chant that. We are not asking you that you chant "Kṛṣṇa." If you have got actually a name for God, then you can chant that. We are requesting this, "Chant God's holy name."

Interviewer: But before, when you came here... Now you came here in the middle '60s, less than a decade ago. What, what was it—this is why I'm trying to find out from you. What was the motivating force behind your coming to the United States?

Prabhupāda: That is already explained. That is already explained. Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted that this propaganda should be made all over the world. And they will accept. So my Guru Maharaja said that "You go and try to do this," so I came with this purpose, and it is happening.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Soul is higher than the body, mind and intelligence.

Dr. Weir: Yes. But that is only because we've learned, I think, when we were small to look up to higher people...

Mensa Member: (indistinct) on each side of them and in the middle, on the other side, before and after...

Dr. Weir: This is the..., you see, unconsciously you grow up with all these sort of prejudices, which are necessary. You've got to have some sort of time scale, you've got to have some sort of measuring scale and therefore you tend to look up and therefore you think highly of more important (indistinct), you talk about high position, you don't think of chaps sitting on the fence...

Śyāmasundara: Inherently you'll find the rose is better than the daisy.

Dr. Weir: No. Some people might prefer the daisy.

Śyāmasundara: But the qualities are there, inherent in the rose, which are preferable to those of the daisy.

Dr. Weir: Why? Tell me why. I mean, you haven't given me any reason for saying it is better.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Śyāmasundara: The rose has nice scent. It appears...

Prabhupāda: ...beautiful.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 4.13.48 to SB 4.14.11 -- January 18, 1972, Jaipur:

Prabhupāda: There was monarchy, the kings were very responsible. Therefore, the kings were known as rājarṣi. Rājarṣi, rāja ṛṣi, rājarṣi, this is compound word. (indistinct) king supervising the administration of the state, still his character was just like a ṛṣi, (indistinct) great sage. That was the qualification of the king. Therefore... Also Vedic civilization, even up to Maharaja Parīkṣit, the government was monarchy. At the present moment, practically all monarchical state is abolished. Even there is some monarchy... Formerly... (indistinct) just like in England, the Queen, she is powerless. Actually, the Queen has no power. People have taken away the power. Here also there is the (indistinct) Jaipur. Actually, they are the owner of the state, Jaipur state, the old state, at least five hundred years old, this state. (indistinct) It is the kingdom of Maharaja Mansingh, former Mansingh, who was commander-in-chief of emperor (indistinct).

But now they have no power. The people have taken away the power. But according to Vedic civilization, this people's government is not sanctioned. Democracy. Democracy is not sanctioned. But in the Kali-yuga, nobody will be a standard king. Anybody, by hook and crook, if he captures the royal throne, he becomes king. That is predicted in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Formerly, only the kṣatriyas were the kings. But at the present moment, because the institution of varṇāśrama-dharma is topsy-turvy, practically no more existing, everyone in this age is calculated to the śūdras. So therefore, there is struggle, who will capture the power? We see practically in political field, the people are interested for capturing the power, but they are not interested... Formality. So they put their manifesto before the election, that we shall serve you in this way and that way. But because they are simply busy to keep their position in the political power...

Just like recently there was fight between two political parties, and represented by two big men, Viśvanātha Dās and Hare Kṛṣṇa Mahatattva. Both of them learned men, lawyers, but they are fighting like cats and dogs. So formerly therefore, there was no such thing as democracy. A king, there must be one king responsible. But he was guided by the ministers and learned brāhmaṇas, sages. There was a body to guide him, to train him. Therefore, the monarchical government was perfect. Now here is a story of Vena Maharaja. His father was very (indistinct) it is usual, very nice king. But his son, this Vena, born of a bad mother, he was not good. He was killing unnecessarily animal, even men, because he was prince. So he would play with his friends and if there is any fault on the part of his friends, he will at once kill. And because he was prince, son of the king, nobody could take any steps. So the king was very much perturbed within his mind how to train this boy to become future king. But he was not successful. He was not successful. Therefore, being too much depressed and disgusted, he left home. He left home, let the things take place as it is. So

vijñāya nirvidya gataṁ patiṁ prajāḥ
purohitāmātya-suhṛd-gaṇādayaḥ
vicikyur urvyām atiśoka-kātarā
yathā nigūḍhaṁ puruṣaṁ kuyoginaḥ
(SB 4.13.48)

So purohita. It appears, purohita means the priestly order. In Europe also, this same Vedic civilization was everywhere. In the Middle Age, the priestly class used to control the king, was it not? And the King John or..., that he protested against the priestly order, and he inaugurated the Protestant Christianity from England.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1972, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: They have not found out the ultimate cause. They take a process which is going in the middle way; therefore their science is imperfect. But our science is perfect. We have found out the ultimate cause.

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇah
sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ
anādir ādir govindaḥ
sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam
(Bs. 5.1)

The cause of all causes. Therefore our science is perfect. We have found out the cause of all causes. But the material scientists, they simply can look to the process, how it is working. Just like a child sees the machine, how it is working, but he cannot know who has produced that machine. Therefore we see the child scientist. (laughter) Not better scientist.

Morning Walks -- October 1-3, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So he is prepared to go to London?

Jayatīrtha: He seems anxious to go, yes.

Prabhupāda: That's good. Why Śyāmasundara does not return?

Jayatīrtha: He's here. He's also asleep. He came in the middle of the night, two or three o'clock in the morning.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Jayatīrtha: (indistinct) is in charge of our traveling saṅkīrtana party, so he's back here for a few days. They're going around to all the fairs, state fairs, county fairs, and distributing literature. He's had very great success

Prabhupāda: Indians are coming in Europe and America to learn technology, but next generation will come here to learn spiritual science, to seek brāhmaṇas. What do you think?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, there's no doubt about it. They will learn technology the coming years, and when they become frustrated again, then they will again learn the spiritual science.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: In Vṛndāvana, there is a place called Nidhuvana.

Devotee: Nidhuvana?

Prabhupāda: Nidhuvana. So that was a place... Still people go to visit. So one Bhagavān dāsa Bābājī, he was chanting, and in the middle of his chanting he made (makes sound with hands like clapping) like this. So his disciples... (pause) Yes. His disciples asked him: "Sir, why did you (makes clapping sound) do like this?" "So there was a goat entered Nidhuvana. So I drove it away." So where is that machine by which you can see...? It is not the time, but see the activities of everywhere? But that is possible. Yes.

Brahmānanda: Oh, even though he did not see the goat, he knew it was there.

Prabhupāda: No, he's seeing. Otherwise, how does he (makes sound) "Hut, hut, hut." He's seeing. Where is that machine? So this Darwin's theory says that there was no intelligent man or brain but how these books were written, thousands and thousands of years ago? These Vedic śāstras. If there were no intelligent brain? Vyāsadeva, like Vyāsadeva. Before Vyāsadeva also, other great sages, they compiled...

Brahmānanda: They have no explanation.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yogeśvara: Then they have to take us seriously. We're there in the summer, and they think it is some kind of a festival, and then they see us...

Professor: It is festival.

Yogeśvara: ...in the middle of winter, and they know we're serious.

Professor: It's also a kind of festival at the same time, no?

Guru-gaurāṅga: Yātrā.

Professor: That's festival.

Guru-gaurāṅga: Yes.

Professor: You had a yātrā, I guess, in San Francisco, didn't you?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Ratha-yātrā, yes.

Professor: That was for the first time in '68, I guess.

Prabhupāda: This time I was present in the Ratha-yātrā. Yesterday, they were showing me the film. It was very successful. Ten thousand people participated.

Morning Walk -- December 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is a side study. But there was hydrogen. Wherefrom the hydrogen came? The scientists, simply they study in the middle. But they do not know what is the origin. Just like here is one aeroplane is coming, and you can say, "All of a sudden a light came out of the sea." Is that the study of this aeroplane? If we... the foolish person will see, "All of a sudden, in the sea there was a light." Is that scientific study? So your study is like that. "There was this, and all of a sudden, by chance..." That's it. That is not scientific study. We have to find out the original cause.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So in due course if they create these amino acids, there are 20 amino acids which are necessary for the body, for the material body.

Prabhupāda: But it is already created. What is your credit?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they want to do it themselves.

Prabhupāda: You may do, but already... Just like there is a soap factory. You start another soap factory. So what is your credit? It is already there.

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Law means law-maker. So they do not know who is the law-maker. That is the difficulty.

Sudāmā: In Japan, Śrīla Prabhupāda, there was a cherry tree that usually in the springtime it gives off flowers. So about three, two years ago, in the middle of winter, this tree gave off all flowers. All the scientists, everyone was running. "It is not time. It is not time. It is not the season. Why is it giving the flowers?"

Prabhupāda: Therefore the best education, scientific advancement, is to recognize God behind everything. That is perfection. We are canvassing, "Accept God, accept God." But if the modern scientist, philosopher, they present, "Yes, here is God," by calculation, then people will take it more seriously. "Oh, the scientist is saying." That is wanted. We are fighting with the scientists and others because they do not accept God. That is their fault. Otherwise, they are friends. They are giving more stress on the physical laws, nature, but they do not know under whose indication the physical laws are working, the nature is working. That they do not know. Yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakraḥ. It is the... In Vedic literatures it is said, chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā. The nature is working just like shadow, shadow of God. Just like master says, "Go there." Immediately the servant goes there. The servant is not independent. by the indication of the master, goes there. So that is nature. And because the arrangement is so perfect... Just like you said, "Out of season, the flowers came out." So they cannot explain. The arrangement is so perfect that God desired, "Now there, let be these flowers," and nature immediately produces. The arrangement is so perfect that these people, they cannot understand. They become amazed, "How it happened?"

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Last year all over the world there was drought. (break)

Hanumān: ...and they had some temples there in Rio Janeiro and San Pablo, and they were followers of Gaurasundara and Siddha-svarūpa. And I think they're still there. And when I was there they were making kīrtana, and they were chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. In the middle of their kīrtana, they would stop their kīrtana, and they would chant "Jaya jaya Siddha-svarūpa," and "Jaya jaya Gaurasundara." So I could not do anything. I told them it was all wrong and everything, and uh... But there is many, many innocent people who are following. They go there for the first time and they make them chant "Jaya jaya Siddha-svarūpa" and "Jaya jaya Gaurasundara," like this. So we were telling, we were talking with...

Prabhupāda: There is no harm in giving "jaya" to Vaiṣṇavas provided they follow the Vaiṣṇava principles. Otherwise, to glorify Vaiṣṇava is not bad. (pause) No, no "jaya" to Mahāprabhu, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu? They chanted?

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Manorathena asati dhāvato bahiḥ. By mental speculation, you will remain on this asati, in this temporary field. Asat means "which will not exist." Anything in this material world, you take, that will not exist. Anywhere man can say. The skyscraper building is constructed, but everyone knows that it will not exist. Some day it will fall down. Everyone knows. It will never exist. That is explained by Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad-gītā, that "If you think that by combination of matter, life has come, so life was not there before the combination. And this combination will dismantle. So life, there will be no more life. So why these three period you are lamenting? There is life." Because according to this theory—"The combination of matter makes life"—so before combination there was no life, and the combination dismantled, there is no life. So beginning and end no life. Why you are lamenting in the middle? Very good reasoning. Just see. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says, māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). Māyā-sukhāya, that illusory, illusory happiness. Māyā-sukhāya. And for that reason, they are making huge, gorgeous arrangement and working day and night, which will be zero. It has begun from zero and it will end into zero. In the middle they are busy. Just see. Therefore vimūḍhān.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...jumps. In the village also there is experience, when there is fire, it jumps over another house, leaving one house in the middle.

Girirāja: "Similarly, a living entity may be very careful and fearful in the matter of executing his duties, but it is still very difficult for him to know what type of body he is going to get in the next life. Mahārāja Bharata was very faithfully executing the duties of self-realization, but by chance he contacted temporary affection for a deer, and he had to accept his next life in the body of a deer." (break)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not liberal. He was truthful. He used to bring all the sons as soon as born to Kaṁsa, and he was killing.

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That is your interpretation.

Akṣayānanda: But Jesus was a shepherd and there were many, many sheep. What did they do with all the sheep?

Prabhupāda: They eat?

Pañcadraviḍa: They must.

Prabhupāda: They must. That is your inference.

Pañcadraviḍa: What else...? In the middle of desert...? Babylon, Israel is all desert country. What will they do with sheep? They are not making wool coats.

Prabhupāda: Then why he has said, "Thou shalt not kill"? Then hypocrisy. Then you reject Jesus complete. He is a hypocrite. Yes. That is the conclusion. How can you follow hypocrite? Huh? Is that all right? If Jesus Christ himself killed animals and he said, "Thou shalt not kill," then he is a hypocrite. Then he cannot preach. He is a hypocrite. You are bringing Christ for condemnation. But how a hypocrite can be the head or can be the religious man or can be...

Akṣayānanda: It is not that we are saying he is a hypocrite.

Prabhupāda: He is proving.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1974, Rome:

Bhagavān: ...which they are importing basically from the Saudi Arabian countries.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhagavān: Now, recently, in the last war in the Middle East, Saudi Arabians raised the price of the oil over double now, I think, as a pressure to the western countries to do things in their favor. Now they realized that the market for oil is in such great demand that they don't have to lower the price after the war, but they are going to keep the price. And actually the price is still increasing. So this is causing inflation.

Prabhupāda: So this problem will be solved as soon as we are localized. Petrol is required for transport, but if you are localized, there is no question of transport. You don't require petrol. Suppose in New Vrindaban, we stay, we don't go anywhere. Then where is the need of petrol?

Bhagavān: Petrol they also use for heating. And electricity.

Prabhupāda: No, heating. Heating we can do by wood. By nature.

Room Conversation with Biochemist, Dr. Sallaz -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: This is nice. Actually, it is so.

Dr. Sallaz: And our last official result is, of course, a scandal for the orthodox world. We did transmute matter from one to another. We achieved transmutation like alchemists in the Middle Age, you see. And a single element which is called iron, we make from it chrome which is another single element. And it is so revolutionary that we had the experimentation made completely not from our side but from official organization in France. (French)

Yogeśvara: What he says is that the final conclusion of their research work has been...

Dr. Sallaz: One of them.

Yogeśvara: One of their conclusions has been to be able to make one element to change into another element. They were able to take iron and transform it into chrome by chemical process, almost like alchemy, he says. And this was very startling for the scientific world.

Dr. Sallaz: Result. Result, only with physical heat, eight hundred, and pressure, only this. No laser, no atomic energy, nothing at all. Simply by natural measures.

Prabhupāda: We can give you one information, that metals like bell metal. Bell metal is combination of...? What is called? Tin? Tin? What is another name of tin?

Yogeśvara: Copper.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Robert Gouiran: And it grows by aglutamation (?) of particles.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That may be. The composition may be. We take grossly five matters, gross matters, and five subtle matters. Five gross matters: this earth, water, air, fire, ether. These are gross matters. And subtle matters: mind, intelligence and ego. These are eight different types of gross and subtle matters. But they depend on the still more subtle thing. That is soul. If the soul is there, the gross matter, this material body, it grows, the mind acts, the intelligence acts, the ego acts, and as soon as the soul is out of this body, it does not act. It decomposes and again turns into gross matter. That's all. Therefore that spirit soul is the basic ground wherefrom the matter develops. Matter is developing, we can understand. A small child is developing big, fatty body. The elephant. But in the middle, if you stop, if you drive away the spirit, it will not grow.

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Basin, basin. So one basin full rice he will keep in the middle of the shop. And there are rats. So the rats will take the rice, and not cut even a single cloth. It is practical. Yes. They are also animals. Give them food. They'll not create any disturbance. Give them food. Yes. Because cloth are very costly. And there are rats. If one cloth is cut by the rat, then it is great loss. So to save from this loss, he'll put in a basin... Rice was nothing. Rice... In our childhood, we have seen, two ānās per seer. That is with profit. You see. So one basin full rice, it doesn't cost even one ānā. So by giving one ānā worth food, he saves so many, hundreds of rupees cloth. Otherwise, if they're hungry, they'll cut it. Everyone has got obligation. Even the tiger. Even the tiger... One saintly person was in the jungle. His disciples said the tigers will never come and disturb in the āśrama because the āśrama head, they'll keep some milk little far away from the āśrama, and the tigers will come and drink and go away. He'll call, "You tiger, come and take your milk here!" Just like we call the dogs. They'll come and take the milk and go away. And they'll never attack any inmates of the āśrama. He'll say, āmāra ajni hana isko bolo naya (?): "They are my men; don't harm them." Yes. Tigers can be trained up. Just like dog. They are a dog species. More ferocious, that's all. More ferocious dog. That's all. So you can train them. I have seen in the World Fair. One man has trained... I think most of you have seen. One tiger and one lion. And he was playing with that tiger, lion, just like one plays with dog. They can be trained up. They can understand also that "This man loves me. He gives me food. He's my friend." They also appreciate.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Evening Discussion -- May 6, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: So he was one of the first demons killed.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Amogha: May we ask questions about pronouncing the Sanskrit?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Amogha: When the a-h with the dot is in the middle of the verse should it always be pronounced clearly, a-ha. Adhi-yajña-ha, or is it more like adhi-yajña.

Prabhupāda: That is stated there. In the verse what it is?

Amogha: Adhi-yaj... Well, it depends on whether I pronounce it right. (laughs) But it is spelled, a-d-h-i-y-a-j-n-a-h with a dot underneath. So...

Prabhupāda: Adhi-yajña. When we divide the word, then the first noun form is used. Sanskrit grammar is very difficult. It requires twelve years to learn simply Sanskrit grammar. So, that is not possible. So whatever is there, you understand that. Sanskrit grammar is very, very difficult. At least twelve years it requires. And if you understand Sanskrit grammar, then you can read all the Vedic literature without any translation. Simply by studying. Therefore the Sanskrit scholars are first of all taught grammar. And when one is expert in reading grammar properly, then all Vedic literature becomes very simplified.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: Four billion miles is the diameter.

Prabhupāda: Is the diameter.

Paramahaṁsa: You gave that in The Teachings of Lord Caitanya also.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And the sun is in the middle.

Paramahaṁsa: So two billion miles from the edge of the universe.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they say? 93,000,000.

Śrutakīrti: That's from the earth to the sun. That's not from the sun to the edge. That's from earth to the sun.

Amogha: Is earth near the edge of the universe?

Prabhupāda: No. There are many other planets down. Seven planetary system.

Paramahaṁsa: The higher planetary systems are closest to the sun? And then...

Prabhupāda: No, sun is the middle. This is circumference. Sun is the middle. And the whole diameter is fifty lakhs and... What is...? And moon is above, 200,000 yojanas above the sun.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: There was a great devotee in South India. He was a treasury officer. So he took money from the treasury and constructed very nice temple. (laughter) Yes. Later on, he was caught, and he was put into jail by the Nawab. At that time the Mohammedan king, Nawab, he saw in dream that two boys, very beautiful, they have come to the Nawab: "Sir, what money he has taken, you can take from me and release him." So the Nawab said, "If I get my money, I can release him." Then, when his dream broke, he saw the money on the floor, and nobody was there. Then he could understand that he is great devotee. He called him immediately, that "You are released, and you take this money also. Whatever you have already taken, that's all right. And now this money also you take. You spend as you like." So devotees sometimes do like that. Actually nothing is private property. That is our philosophy. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam: (ISO 1) "Everything belongs to God." That's a fact. Under the influence of māyā we are thinking that "This is my property."

Just like suppose this cushion. Wherefrom the wood has come? Has anybody produced wood? Who has produced? It is God's property. Rather, we have stolen God's property and claiming, "My property." Then Australia. The Englishmen came here, but is that the property of the Englishmen? It was there. America, it was there. And when everything will be finished, it will be there. In the middle we come and claim, "It is my property," and fight. Is it not? You are a barrister, you can judge better.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They should come forward and cooperate. It is such a nice thing. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ (BG 3.21). They are leading men. If they understand, the others will accept it. It is a good thing. They must accept it.

Brahmānanda: In Kenya we went into one government officer asking for some land for a farm. He also said, "We want to give you land right in the middle of the village, so you can build your church there."

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Brahmānanda: He offered that. He said, "All the other religions, they have their... We have certain plots for them, and there is a church for Catholic, a church for Protestant, a church for Bahai."

Prabhupāda: No, no, take anywhere they give land. Yes. That will be recognition. We don't mind for the land, but the government has given land means recognized. That is wanted.

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone rises at three o'clock.

Dr. Judah: I had an interesting dream last night, and after dreaming it, I woke up and stayed awake until I got up, until I was called at five. The dream was... It seems to be a mixture of the events that occurred last night. I was in a temple and doing kīrtana with a number of devotees, and in the middle of the kīrtana, a little child crawled in on the floor into the temple, and we all stopped and talked to the little child. And I'm reminded... And I thought, "Now what does this mean?" And I remember then. I was talking with Dharma just before I went to bed, and there was this little child that came in from next door there, and so he, we gave him some prasādam, and so I feel that this all got mixed together in this dream.

Prabhupāda: Dream means some mixed ideas.

Dr. Judah: Yeah. Yes. An interesting mixture of things.

Car Conversation from Airport -- July 3, 1975, Chicago:

Brahmānanda: (begins in car) ...the sun is the center, in that way above the sun. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...is not center. It is above the sun. It has his own orbit.

Brahmānanda: Oh. (break)

Prabhupāda: Sun is situated in the middle of the universe. (break) ...diameter of the universe is four billion or forty million? (break) Sun is situated 200 billion from the circumference of the universe. But the earth is between the sun and the circumference. Therefore it appears to be almost correct, 93 million. Apart from these differences, these people say there was no civilization before two thousand years?

Harikeśa: Three thousand.

Prabhupāda: Three thousand. (break) ...this knowledge is there in the Bhāgavatam, which was written in words five thousand years ago, but the knowledge was known millions and millions of years.

Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda:

oṁ ajñāna-timirāndhasya
jñānāñjana-śalākayā
cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena
tasmai śrī-gurave namaḥ

(I offer my respectful obeisances unto my spiritual master, who with the torchlight of knowledge has opened my eyes, which were blinded by the darkness of ignorance.)

Ladies and gentlemen, regarding Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement... (about microphone:) It is working? We are talking about the spiritual existence of the living being. By evolutionary process we come to the human form of life, and here we have got developed consciousness. We can decide now which way to go forward. There are different planetary system. That we can experience. We can see innumerable planets, upwards and downwards. So the upper planetary system is called Svargaloka, or the heavenly planets, and the middle planetary system is called Martyaloka or Bhurloka, in which we are staying at the present moment, and the down planetary system is called Pātālaloka or downwards. Downwards means fall down, upwards means getting promotion, and middle means we remain where we are now. That is... Indication is given in the Bhagavad-gītā, ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā: (BG 14.18) "Those who are cultivating the modes of goodness, they are promoted to the higher planetary system." And madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ. "Those who are passionate or under the modes of passion, they remain in the middle planetary system." And jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ: "And those (whose) character is very abominable, they go down." And beyond this, there is another nature.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1975, Chicago:

Harikeśa: A thousand. (break)

Prabhupāda: Sun is situated in the middle from this circumference, two billion up and down. And the moon is situated above the sun, 1,600,000 miles. How they can go to the moon?

Devotee: They think the moon is closer than the sun.

Prabhupāda: They may think, but we are thinking in this way. Who is right?

Devotee: We are right, the Vedas.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...thinking is right because they could not go to the moon. They say they went, but actually they could not. Now they are disappointed. (break)

Devotee: ...Prabhupāda? He had some question whether Lord Nityānanda ever took sannyāsa.

Prabhupāda: No. (break) ...went with the sannyāsīs as brahmacārī. (break) ...philosophy?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Philosophy book.

Harikeśa: Philosophy book is waiting until...

Brahmānanda: No, Hayagrīva is editing it now.

Harikeśa: Oh, now? Jaya.

Morning Walk -- July 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: How they can see?

Paramahaṁsa: That was my question.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda says how can they see?

Prabhupāda: No, they take all these stars as sun. But that is not fact. Sun is one. In each universe there is one sun in the middle. In this universe in the middle, from the circumference, 200,000,000,000's, no, two billion.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Two billion.

Prabhupāda: And above the sun there is moon. Then Mars, then Venus, like that. 1,600,000 miles above, above, above.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So the moon is further away than the sun.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore I say they have never gone to moon. Never gone.

Hṛdayānanda: What is that? Rahu. (break)

Nalinī-kaṇṭha: They say that they can see stars trillions of miles away.

Prabhupāda: But they cannot go. That's a fact. According to their estimation, the moon is the nearest. So they cannot go there. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) ...deva-vratā devān. Moon is one of the heavenly planets. So unless one is very advanced in karma-kāṇḍa, offering sacrifices, nobody can go there. It is not so easy. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ (BG 14.18). Those who are more and more higher status of goodness, they are promoted in the highest planet. Not by drinking wine and driving a sputnik one can... (laughter) It is not so easy. (break) ...also drink soma-rasa. The residents of the moon, they live for ten thousand years.

Morning Walk -- September 18, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You have fixed up?

Guṇārṇava: They are fixing today. They started the work.

Prabhupāda: You know how to fix?

Guṇārṇava: Yes. They know how to do it.

Prabhupāda: One bamboo, you just crosswise fix up and then in the middle... The rope should come through one pulley first, then the second pulley. Then it will not go out.

Indian man (1): Ringing also will be nice.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So you see to fix it up nicely. Harer nāma, harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). Saccidānanda said they are purchasing vegetables, fruits-125—but you have increased, 190. Why?

Dhanañjaya: The devotees' prasāda? Devotees' bhoga?

Prabhupāda: Devotees or... Daily they were purchasing 125. But you said, "No, it must be more," and the banana is rotting. Why do you purchase more?

Dhanañjaya: No, I allotted five rupees per person.

Prabhupāda: Therefore it must be spent.

Morning Walk -- September 18, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Then why don't you do that business? In the evening, four o'clock, you can speak. The whole day you can read and reproduce in the four o'clock. Then you understand what is the philosophy. If you simply reproduce what is written there in the book you become preacher. Yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). We haven't got to manufacture anything.

Praṇava: Since you have asked me, I have got one question I ask you. Yesterday my wife went for saṅkīrtana, and the mike was stopped in the middle, so she felt little... But I said, "Since we have to make kīrtana, Prabhupāda..."

Prabhupāda: Why the mike was stopped?

Indian: "...like it and you should go on." So if your kind permission is there, she will continue in whatever way...

Guṇārṇava: In what way was the microphone stopped? What do you mean?

Praṇava: Yes, it was stopped for some time.

Prabhupāda: That mike stops sometimes. That is another thing, not that purposely...

Praṇava: It stopped purposely. And especially at the time of that tulasī ārati also because somebody may not have liked that she should come or....

Guṇārṇava: Who stopped your wife from singing?

Praṇava: That I don't know.

Brahmānanda: You have to say.

Morning Walk -- September 30, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Kali-yuga, it is excessive, but this is going on. Even... Maybe in Satya-yuga it was less.

Dr. Patel: Maybe nothing, perhaps, the first Satya-yuga. People were all saints.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: But they are fools. They should have kept more on the side of it.

Prabhupāda: It is now in the middle of the street.

Dr. Patel: The government of this country is going on everywhere.

Prabhupāda: We have nothing to do. We are world, but it is in the middle of the street.

Dr. Patel: I have got a killa. (?)

Prabhupāda: Yes. It has dignified.

Dr. Patel: They ought to thicken wall with a little under because this kaccā wall foundation is there. They should make it... This wall. They should dress it up, the foundation, which is above. No? You are going away today?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (end)

Morning Walk -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Then? They must be moved. Government means, nowadays, all rascals. They are elected by rascals and they are rascals. That is the difficulty. Everywhere you go, you will meet only rascals. Manda. The definition is given, manda. Even in our camp there are so many rascals. Just see the report. Even they have come to be reformed, they are rascals. They cannot give up their rascal habits. Therefore it has been generalized, manda: "all bad." But only difference is that in our camp the bad's are being reformed; outside there is no reforming. There is hope of their being good, but outside there is no hope. That is the difference. Otherwise everyone is bad. Without any discrimination you can say. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo (SB 1.1.10). Now, how the government will be good? This is also bad. Mahāprabhu's name is Patita-pāvana; He is delivering all bad men. In the Kali-yuga there is no good men at all—all bad. Strong you will have to become to deal with all bad men. (break) The seaweeds are there even in the middle ocean.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Cyavana: They call it Sargasso. The call it the Sargasso Sea. It floats in the center of the ocean, seaweed. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the fort?

Morning Walk -- October 9, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: It is stated in the Bhāgavata.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Does that mean that it's farther away from the earth than the... Does that mean that the earth is farther from the moon than from the sun?

Prabhupāda: Yes, certainly. Sun is in the center of the universe, and other planets there are above the sun and lower the sun. Sun is in the middle of the universe.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So then the moon...

Prabhupāda: Everything is there. The whole, what is called, radius, no, diameter, from one point to another of the universe is given there. Pañcāśat-koṭi-yojana. Pañcāśat means fifty, and koṭi means ten million. So fifty into ten million. Huh? 500,000,000. Pañcāśat-koṭi. And eight.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Four billion.

Prabhupāda: Four billion miles, the area, this way and that way. So if the distance is so vast then one planet situated some millions of miles away, it is not extraordinary. The whole area is four billion.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. But it appears at least for... It appears that the moon is so close.

Prabhupāda: "It appears"—that is another thing. As soon as you say "appears," that means you have no knowledge.

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Prof. Olivier: Well, we didn't get the... We didn't get time to discuss some of the...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prof. Olivier: ...the points that you raised, and I came in in the middle of a discourse.

Prabhupāda: I do not know who were those gentlemen. They are your teaching staff, that Mr. Chadda(?) and others? They were introduced as Ārya-samājīs. They belong to the teaching staff, no?

Prof. Olivier: No. The Ārya-patha-nidi-sabhā, which is an organization which was started about a hundred years ago by Swami Dayananda in India, with a motto of bhavantu viśvam āryam: "Let us make all men noble through search after truth," and that started in South Africa about fifty years ago. And one of the leading gentlemen in the organization today was the one sitting on the extreme left-hand side, Mr. Chautay. They are celebrating their fiftieth anniversary here in South Africa with a week's program, and they invited these two ācāryas over from India. One is from Delhi. I don't know where the other one is from. They invited them over to grace their celebrations. So they have been having a week of celebrations starting in the City Hall last Sunday.

Prabhupāda: This Sunday?

Prof. Olivier: The Sunday that's just passed, yes, they started there.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Because he has got that doctorate title, so he thinks that he has conquered all over the world. Sapari jala-matrena phora-phoraya. (?) You'll find some fish, a small-little water: (makes sound) "phrr, phrr, phrr, phrr, phrr, phrr."

Brahmānanda: Making big noise.

Prabhupāda: And a big fish, they'll remain in the middle, whale fish. And a small fish, (makes noise) "phrr, phrr, phrr, phrr, phrr." Sapari phora phoraya. So he is a small fish. He is thinking that he knows everything. What does he know about these five vargas? Does he know anything? Ka-varga, ca-varga, ṭa-varga. So ṭa-varga means ṭa, ṭha, ḍa, ḍha, ṇa. So the ṇa is there. So it can be replaced by ṭa.

Harikeśa: I think he was also the same one who was saying the Aquarian Gospel was just somebody's dream.

Prabhupāda: Yes, but you are also dreaming. Why do you claim that your dream is all right; his dream is wrong? Dreaming is wrong. If his dream is wrong—you are also dreaming—you are also wrong. Why do you claim that your dream is all right? That is nonsense. Everyone thinks that he is right and everyone is wrong. We do not think like that. We take the words of the authority, that's all. Or we have no respect(?). This is our program. That is the way of paramparā. Not only we accept, but our previous ācāryas, all the big, big ācāryas, they have accepted. Śukadeva Gosvāmī said. He is ācārya. Vyāsadeva says from the very beginning. Kṛṣṇa says. That's all right. We take these authorities. We do not dream. That is not our process. Dream, your dream or my dream, this is all rascal. Dream is dream. Why do you think that your dream is right and my dream is wrong?

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Saurabha: Well, he couldn't do that immediately because this one has been there for twenty-five years, but they will try to get rid of all these things.

Prabhupāda: Rather inconvenient to Mr. Matrey, because in front practically. We have got wall. He has no very much objection. And how will they allow? (break)

Girirāja: Have a gate in the middle of the wall and so many people will be passing. It will be a big international center so it will look bad for India that...

Prabhupāda: Yes. So stick to that point. That's nice. (break) ...may take advantage of offering obeisances consciously or unconsciously. (break)

Dr. Dr. Patel: My son and his wife came. Especially for them... They don't have other holidays.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (break) What is the use of the fighting?

Dr. Patel: I have heard that the man could have first landed on moon and then...

Prabhupāda: Nobody landed. This is all bogus.

Morning Walk -- November 20, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Anyone who accepts God, he is bhāgavata.

Dr. Patel: Christ, sir, really taught absolutely bhāgavata-dharma. The way... All his sayings, the New Testament and his Sermon on Mount, all is absolutely Bhāgavata. I have studied it very, in great detail and compared the two myself. So Christ was the greatest Hindu, to tell the truth. But as those people in the Middle East were heathens and absolutely junglis, they crucified him. Had he been here he would have been a big saint and avatāra.

Prabhupāda: Recent history is that he did not die. He came to Kashmir.

Dr. Patel: Came to Kashmir. There is a tomb in Kashmir. I read some literature about it. His resurrection... They say that they smuggled him out of that cave. It is possible. When he was on the cross, he...

Prabhupāda: No, even by yoga system...

Dr. Patel: He must have gone in a trance.

Prabhupāda: He lived by trance.

Morning Walk -- November 26, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Evidence is there. Still, you are so rascal. Evidence is you were a child. That is the evidence. Where is that body? A very simple evidence, but these rascals are so dull, they cannot understand.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They accept what is good for their sense gratification, and what is not good, they won't accept.

Prabhupāda: And where is sense gratification? (break)

Harikeśa: Everything is unmanifest in the beginning, manifest in the middle, and unmanifest at the end. So why should I care for anything in this lifetime?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Harikeśa: If it's all unmanifest in the beginning, it's only manifest in the middle, and it's unmanifest again at the end, why should I care about anything this life?

Prabhupāda: Then why you are making so much arrangement for sense gratification?

Harikeśa: Well, I can enjoy while I've got it.

Prabhupāda: But why... If it is not manifested, what is the enjoyment?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Harikeśa?

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Yaj-jihvāgre nāma tubhyām (sic). Aho bata svapa.

Hariśauri: (aside:) Did he?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Mahārāja, did you show that article to...?

Prabhupāda: Why do you speak in the middle? You should hear. Yaj-jihvāgre nāma tubham, yan-nāma śruti-mātrena pumān bhavati nirmalaḥ. And this rascals says the nāma has no.... See. We have to meet simply rascals all over. The so-called religionists, so-called swamis, so-called yogis, so-called politicians. You see? Simply we have to meet with all rascals.

Indian man: No, he was reminding me of this Jyoti Mahārāja showing that article on Kṛṣṇa Jayantī day to the reading out to the entire audience. That was a rubbish.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, read to the whole audience.

Prabhupāda: He was reading?

Indian man: Ah, that is what he reminds me, because I said the incident which I had with him.... On Kṛṣṇa Jayantī day I did not go there. But on that day it was being read out. That was the silly part of it.

Yaśodānandana: So Prabhupāda, these same people that...

Prabhupāda: So what is the wrong there? What was the wrong?

Indian man: No, he said that "This movement has got these black sheep, and they have been banned in Japan. Everywhere they will be banned."

Prabhupāda: But there is something in Japan which is banned. But what you have got in Japan?

Indian man: Nothing.

Morning Walk -- January 17, 1976, Mayapur:

Jayapatāka: Even from here you can just see without going all that way there. The thing... This is the lake.

Prabhupāda: Lake?

Jayapatāka: This is a lake. This, in the rainy season it becomes submerged. That's what I was saying last night. He said that if you dig a lake in the middle, then you can make it high.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Useless land.

Prabhupāda: That is not good.

Jayapatāka: But now we've got some crops growing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means that land should be very cheap.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He can sell very cheaply. It's very low land.

Prabhupāda: Now you should have sufficient experience. People may not cheat you-low land, high price.

Morning Walk -- February 20, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That I do not know. Why?

Acyutānanda: Because they have a Gītā day, I think, in November, where they claim that they have found the day... September?

Yaśodānandana: December, beginning of December.

Acyutānanda: So that and the eighteen days' war, and then the Uttarāyaṇa begins in the middle of January. So I was thinking that Bhīṣma was lying on the battlefield for almost a month or more.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Acyutānanda: That Bhīṣma was waiting, lying on the battlefield for about thirty or forty days. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...was to die when he liked. That was his special privilege.

Acyutānanda: What?

Prabhupāda: He would die when he liked. That was the benediction upon him. And Gandhi will say dharma-kṣetra means this body.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Brian Singer: In the Kṛṣṇa teachings, the person is not the body but the soul, which is like many religions. Also, some animals, animals also, are not the body but the soul. This is true? Like the cow and the dog and the cat?

Prabhupāda: Yes, everywhere soul is there. Just like the soul is there in the child, in the boy, in the young man, in the middle-aged man, in the old man.

Brian Singer: Yeah, I understand this.

Prabhupāda: So similarly, soul is everywhere.

Brian Singer: And in the animal also? In the dog?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Brian Singer: Yeah? And how far down in the animal world? Like you have the worm and also bacteria and the virus. Is also true?

Prabhupāda: That is the difference. I have already told you that the soul is in the child, and the soul is in the body of the father, but the child's soul is.... Or.... Soul is everywhere, but the proportionate consciousness is not developed. Just like wood. In every wood there is fire. Do you admit?

Morning Walk -- May 25, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: Oh?

Prabhupāda: Four billion is the..., what is called?

Devotee: Diameter of the universe.

Prabhupāda: Diameter of the universe. Sun is almost in the middle.

Hari-śauri: So what is that distance that is given in the Bhāgavatam, then? It says 100,000 yojanas.

Prabhupāda: I don't think that is.... Moon that is far away from the sun, 1,600,000. (indistinct) fire in the sea, varuṇāgni. (indistinct) You know there is sometimes fire in the sea?

Devotee: In what way? Volcano? Like that?

Prabhupāda: Volcano eruption. Is there any technical term? Varuṇāgni. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Hari-śauri: You mean like when there's an eruption from below? Say when an island's formed, or...

Prabhupāda: It is called varuṇāgni, fire in the water.

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1976, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda: Oh, I heard this when I...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...and they, right in the middle of the jungle, suddenly the devotees were there. (laughter) Hṛdayānanda's men were there preaching, and they said they could not imagine that they were in this most unusual place, no one was around, but suddenly the Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees were. (laughter)

Hṛdayānanda: They told me they met Tamāla Kṛṣṇa's mother.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Rādhāvallabha: If he gets a book in an unusual place, they always say, "You people are everywhere."

Rāmeśvara: When we tell the public that we only have maybe ten thousand devotees, they are very surprised there are so few Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees, because they see us everywhere.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Therefore we're the most enthusiastic missionaries in the world.

Prabhupāda: (break)...say that all the ten thousand devotees, each of them is a moon, not a star.

Devotees: Jaya!

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And you are the sun, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We are just reflecting your light.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) ...do the work of many stars.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Ekaś candras tamo hanti. Stars, they cannot do anything; they simply glitter, that's all. Glow-worms.

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Kīrtirāja: They are also planting plastic grass in the middle of the road.

Hṛdayānanda: No opulence.

Rādhāvallabha: In Russia now they have declared one..., that it is a big crisis. Because their grains did not grow properly, they are not able to produce as much meat, so now one day a week everyone is forced to eat fish. So they are lamenting. They were describing how..., about the good old days were when you could go and buy an entire carcass.

Candanācārya: (break) ...country, build cities and then spend billions of dollars to make the city look like the country.

Prabhupāda: Carvita-carvaṇānām. Chewing the chewed, again and again. This is their position. (japa) (break)

Rāmeśvara: On the calendar it says it is Bhīma-ekādaśī.

Prabhupāda: Bhīma-ekādaśī, yes.

Rāmeśvara: So I've been told that if one fasts on Bhīma-ekādaśī, that it is like fasting on all the ekādaśīs. Is that true?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Ekādaśī is meant for fasting, either Bhīma or Arjuna. But we cannot fast, therefore we have to take little fruits and.... Otherwise, ekādaśī means fasting.

Conversation in Airport and Car -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Viśvakarmā: Which side, Śrīla Prabhupāda? On the left-hand side or the right-hand side of the Deity, facing towards the altar?

Prabhupāda: Any side.

Viśvakarmā: Any side? How far away from the front? In the middle so that they can see from the balcony as well. (child calls out)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Prabhupāda?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sounded like it.

Hari-śauri: Sounded like it. I don't think it could have been though. Not a devotee.

Prabhupāda: Child is...

Devotee: Could be Buffalo.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, it's not. I see the child.

Devotee: He'll have the same benediction as Ajāmila. (child calls out "Prabhupāda")

Prabhupāda: He knows me. (break)

Devotee: Should there be a canopy over top of the vyāsāsana?

Prabhupāda: No, no canopy. (break) ...to fly to our New Vrindaban? How long it takes?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I asked Kīrtanānanda. He said about one hour, twenty, twenty-five minutes. (break—new sequence in car)

Prabhupāda: Let us see what is the reception. (break) We have come from a different way. From Buffalo.

Kīrtanānanda: Yes, you had to come from Buffalo. (break) ...take to get to Buffalo?

Prabhupāda: Three hours.

Prabhupada Inspects New BTG -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: What is this article? Ah. "Kṛṣṇa Consciousness-The Spirit of '76." "Curing the Crimes of a Lifetime." Vibhavatī. "Curing the Crimes"—read it.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (reads) "Adapted from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, translation and commentary by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda." In the middle there is a picture of Arjuna piercing the target, and Draupadī. "With the recent disgrace of an American president still fresh in our minds, it is interesting to read of a similar case in ancient times. Five thousand years ago a blind king named Dhṛtarāṣṭra dishonored his high post and caused the death of millions. This story is of special importance even today, because he found an antidote to the crimes of a lifetime and in his old age became self-realized. King Dhṛtarāṣṭra was the acting monarch of Hastināpura, the capital of the Vedic kingdom of Bhārata, which five thousand years ago, according to the Vedic literature, spread over most of the planet. Hastināpura was on the banks of the Yamunā River at the present-day site..., at the site of present day Delhi. As its name indicates-hasti means elephant—it was a city full of opulently decorated elephants. Noble men rode elaborate chariots past marble palaces inlaid with glittering jewels. The sweet smell of incense drifted out of lattice windows. Trees bearing fruits and flowers lined the wide streets, which were sprinkled with scented water. There was no hint of poverty or distress. Hastināpura was the crown jewel of the abundant Vedic civilization. From the beginning, Dhṛtarāṣṭra's position as king was never legal, for he was blind, and Vedic law ruled that a blind man cannot be king. Thus the throne went to his younger brother Pāṇḍu. But when Pāṇḍu died in his young manhood, Dhṛtarāṣṭra began ruling on behalf of Pāṇḍu's five sons, who were still children. In an age of great and honorable kings, Dhṛtarāṣṭra was an exception. Swayed by his eldest son Duryodhana's ruthless lust for power, Dhṛtarāṣṭra began to abuse the guardianship of the Pāṇḍavas by closing his already blind eyes to the planned and purposeful efforts of Duryodhana to destroy the boys. As the descendant of a great royal dynasty, Dhṛtarāṣṭra had the lineage and rearing of a proper monarch, but it seemed that he was as blind spiritually as he was physically. Although he admired and even loved the five fatherless princes, he began to contemplate taking away their kingdom, and even their lives."

Prabhupāda: At seven o'clock we shall go there?

Kīrtanānanda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Rūpānuga: There is a slide of this, but we did not show you. The idea is that this is the beginning of Brahmā's day up to present, Vaivasvata Manu. This is the beginning of time according to them. They can't explain anything up to here. They say here, in the middle of the day of Raivata Manu, they begin their Cambrian Age.

Prabhupāda: No, why Raivata Manu? They are imperfect.

Rūpānuga: We're here, and this is the previous Manu, and before him the other Manu, and it's back here that they say their geological records begin.

Prabhupāda: Whatever they say, whatever we say, which one is correct? Who will say?

Rūpānuga: We will say. We are correct.

Prabhupāda: You'll say, they will say "I am correct."

Rūpānuga: Then the reader must decide.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We will say that they are wrong and we want to find out the reason for that.

Prabhupāda: Then it is all right.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Guest: Also this, another aspect was answered, the Vedic literature, all that we have today, is not a complete literature. We assume that perhaps some part of the literature has never been copied and was probably lost. So if His name doesn't occur in certain portion of Vedas, it doesn't mean that the name didn't occur in the Vedas. This is something that people have...

Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa's name is very confidential. In the Atharva Veda, there is name, there is.... Jīva Gosvāmī has quoted from Atharva Veda. There is Kṛṣṇa's name. And this, the best scholar of Vedas, (indistinct) he says, sa bhagavān svayaṁ kṛṣṇa, Śaṅkarācārya. Then other ācāryas they have supported Kṛṣṇa's teachings, just like Rāmānujācārya, and (indistinct) he has quoted Vedic quotation, every śloka. So one has to learn the real Vedas, then he'll find, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is mentioned," (Sanskrit). Everywhere is Kṛṣṇa's name. But one must be actually scholar in Vedas, then he'll find, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is mentioned in the beginning, in the middle, and at the end."

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: All bluff.

Yadubara: According to the Bhāgavatam, the sun is also 93,000,000 miles away from the earth?

Prabhupāda: That is we shall see later on. It is about. The whole diameter is 4 billions. And sun is situated almost in the middle. It is my firm conviction that they did not go to the moon. Neither they'll be able to go to the Mars as they have planned it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But their scientists would be mad...

Prabhupāda: They are mad already, they're talking all nonsense. Already they're mad.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They're studying all the rocks from the moon.

Prabhupāda: Rascals. What they will get? They studied the rock. And they have found one crack in the whole moon planet, and there's no living being?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually the rocks are being distributed all over the world.

Prabhupāda: Ah?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: For analysis. Little portion of the rock that they have brought from different stratas(?), they have distributed all over the world. And the report is coming that a portion of the elements (indistinct), so from there they calculate how old the moon is. It's about the same age as the earth, about 4.5 million years.

Prabhupāda: They say similar rocks are available here.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Bill Sauer: You believe you can transmit that to other planets?

Prabhupāda: Yes. We have to transfer, because we are giving up this body. So you must accept another body. So either in this planet or in other planets or as human being or less than human being... There are 8,400,000 types of body. You have to accept one of them according to your karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). How the next body is developed, that is depending on our work. If we work like demigod, then we go and get the body of demigod. And if we work like dog, then we get the body of a dog. Nature's. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22). According to activity and association of the modes of material nature, we get, up and down, different varieties of body. Some of them are low grade, some of them are high grade. That depends on our association with the modes of nature. Nature's work is going on. Just like if we contaminate some particular germs of disease, that disease will develop and we have to suffer. Similarly, by our contamination or association with the guṇa, qualities of nature... There are three qualities, goodness, passion and ignorance. So we have to know how to associate. If we associate with the goodness, then we are elevated to the higher planetary system, deva. And if we associate with passion, then in the middle, just like human being. And if we associate with ignorance, then go down like animal, trees, plants, like that.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Mr. Boyd: Well, that might depend on what kind of prime minister you were.

Prabhupāda: No, that is possible, I can become prime minister or any big man. But if I do not work properly, if I work like animal, then my next life is animal. There is no consideration that "Here is a prime minister, why he should become a dog?" Nature will act. If you infect some disease, you may be prime minister or you may be a common man, if you have infected that disease, you must suffer from that disease. That is nature's law. There is no consideration that "Here is prime minister. He has infected the malaria germs. He should not suffer." Nature's law if not like that. Just like you say that in India there is malaria. So your daughter was not excused, that "Here is a girl coming of very respectable, good family. She should be excused." No excuse. You have infected malaria germ, you must suffer. So similarly, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22). We are associating with different modes of material nature, and according to our association, sat, asat, good birth or low-class birth is there—either as demigods in the higher planetary system or human being in the middle planetary system or as animals, low class. There are three classes of birth. That depends on our association with the modes of material nature—goodness, passion or ignorance. So at least in the human form of life nobody should be kept in ignorance. The facility must be given. That is civilization. Every human being should have the greatest opportunity to make his life successful. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Every human being is open to accept the principles of Kṛṣṇa consciousness and make his life successful. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). This is our propaganda, to give everyone the facility of perfection of life. Now somebody may take or somebody may not take, but the basic principle of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to offer everyone the best facility.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're trying to figure it all out scientifically.

Ādi-keśava: They're trying to use all kinds of machines and wires to measure consciousness. They have one group that has tin cans attached to wires, and they hold them in their hand, and then they measure it on the machine as they meditate. And when they meditate right, the needle on the machine goes right in the middle, and they think they have achieved perfection.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here is an article called "Travels Beyond the Body: what is it that travels, and what is it that's seen?" They're talking about traveling beyond your body. Here's an advertisement, "Because I have taken the mystery out of transcendental meditation, I will teach you to master transcendental meditation in a single evening." "About the author." Then it says, "Free private mantra based on your own name, selected by the great Norbell, translated by his special Sanskrit system, so that no one else in America has the same mantra twice. No other system of transcendental meditation..."

Prabhupāda: What is this? Maharishi?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Maharishi Mahesh Yogi?

Hari-śauri: No, this is competition.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: How is this grass evolving?

Rādhāvallabha: They say that the wind blows the seeds. Or animals drop them. They also say that flying animals, like birds, came from the sea in one form.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I heard one island had just appeared sometime back from a volcano underneath the ocean in the middle of the Pacific.

Hari-śauri: There's one near Norway as well.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The scientists wanted to find out how long it would take before life appeared on this island in the middle of nowhere. So they were thinking it might take thousands of millions and billions of years, because there had been no life there to begin with. But they found that within one year it was full of so much plants, vegetation.

Prabhupāda: Just see, how rascal they are.

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Ācchā.

Rāmeśvara: And in the middle of the courtyard they have this crazy sculpture. All over the city. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...some of our artists make big sculpture out of metal?

Prabhupāda: Hm? No. That's not possible.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Philosophically not possible?

Prabhupāda: No, practically.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because some of our men here who have helped to make this wall, the front wall of the temple that we're making in front of the Deities, they are artists and they have the ability to cast large, they've done this previously,

Prabhupāda: Let them do some small first of all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And show you.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Very good, this is blissful nature.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, you can see the devotees pulling the float.

Bali-mardana: Read the caption in the middle.

Prabhupāda: And they have created a civilization, wine, woman, gambling and meat.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's what it said. "The multicolored floats contrast with Fifth Avenue's concrete canyon as parade passes Thirty-fourth Street yesterday." Here it says, "An idyllic mood in saffron robes."

Prabhupāda: Everything is approved.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, highly approved. Then there's another, New York Times.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is not very(?) important.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Beautiful photograph.

Bali-mardana: "East Meets West in Hare Kṛṣṇa..."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Feat."

Bali-mardana: "...Feat."

Hari-śauri: Fete.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Fete.

Prabhupāda: You must purchase some copies. We shall send to India.

Car Ride -- July 20, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Ulṭā-ratha.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ulṭā-ratha.

Rāmeśvara: Should the actors perform the Herā Pañcamī ceremony?

Prabhupāda: That is in the middle.

Rāmeśvara: In the middle.

Prabhupāda: Do that(?).

Rāmeśvara: So they can do that? (break) ...Pañcamī, where they carry the goddess of fortune on an opulent palanquin.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, New York doesn't have a name. We have to give it some name. We call Los Angeles as New Dvārakā. Here it's just New York. (break)

Rāmeśvara: (whispering) Rādhāvallabha.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Huh?

Rāmeśvara: Rādhāvallabha.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...monkey.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Rāmeśvara: Rādhāvallabha is your faithful servant.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Devotee (1): And they should give us some facilities?

Prabhupāda: Yes. We want to preach. Here also, if you give us facility, we can preach. That is after your interest.

Devotee (1): This one gentleman has already offered one house in Bangkok. He's put at our disposal, in the middle of the city. A very beautiful house.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is very nice.

Devotee (1): But now I'm wondering how this should be managed, who should take charge of this project.

Prabhupāda: No, we can send some men from India. Bangkok is not far away from India. If we get a living place, then we can find out. When there are rice thrown, the crows will come. If there is no rice, how the crows will come? This is the philosophy. (laughter) If there is living place, then many crows will come.

Devotee (1): So we can first go and see the situation and then contact our men in India.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Men will be supplied from India. What is his name? Send him some thanks.

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Bhūgarbha: Professor Chenique's suggesting that in the Middle Ages there were many philosophers who also were researching the same questions of the body of God and how His body is different from ours, and they came to exactly the same conclusions as are mentioned in the Bhāgavatam, so he's suggesting some of our devotees should read some of these books so we'll be able to in our preaching show the French people these conceptions that God has a body are not foreign conceptions, and actually even European philosophers in the Middle Ages were saying the same things.

Prabhupāda: No, you can convince by your words. It is not necessary that you have to read so many other words. If you are yourself convinced, then you can convince others by your words. The fact. The same example, when there is fire actually you can express it by any word.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Here is love of God. Whole day he was engaged to serve God, that is love.

Atreya Ṛṣi: We have a nice building for Kṛṣṇa, it's very nice.

Prabhupāda: Where it is?

Atreya Ṛṣi: It is in the middle of the city. It is the one I was explaining to you the other day. So we went to the notary, and it takes a long time, because it's a lot of red tape. And also the lights went off. The lights went off in the middle of writing the agreement. So now we have the agreement, by your grace, it is nice. If you feel good, maybe you can visit it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Tomorrow morning I'll go?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Well, I would like it when traffic is low, because it's in the city.

Prabhupāda: When it is, traffic is...?

Atreya Ṛṣi: It is in the heart of the city.

Prabhupāda: No, when the traffic will be low?

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Why don't you ask Pradyumna?

Hari-śauri: He's way upstairs...

Prabhupāda: But downstairs he cannot come!

Hari-śauri: Well, I tried to look it up in the index.

Prabhupāda: Index is not there. It is in the middle, yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). Index you'll find only the beginning. Just after, just before the verse sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66).

Hari-śauri: Oh. Iti te jñānam...

Prabhupāda: Ah, iti te jñānam.

Hari-śauri: ...ākhyātaṁ guhyād guhyataraṁ mayā vimṛśyaitad aśeṣeṇa yathecchasi tathā kuru.

Prabhupāda: "I have given you knowledge, confidential, more confidential, most confidential. Now you consider, you deliberate upon this and do whatever you like." And what Arjuna replied? Naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā tvat-prasādan keśava. Find it.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: In America, in New York, they have got a very...

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Very good temple. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami wrote to me, my friend was also there. Mr. Patetas has met you I think.

Prabhupāda: It is twelve...

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Twelve stories.

Prabhupāda: In the middle of downtown.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Manhattan.

Prabhupāda: That Empire State Building...

Room Conversation -- August 20, 1976, Hyderabad:

Saurabha: That is... That is... Like those things come out here. That is all connected with the room. So your bathroom, you have one toilet here and one shower here, each side.

Prabhupāda: That's good.

Saurabha: This is very nice, quite big. Then on the roof you have practically the whole roof plus a room in the middle. Here is a room on the roof, the next slide, room here, and then you have just a nice terrace and very nice breeze.

Prabhupāda: All sides open.

Saurabha: Yes this is open. Well, we have arches here, just arches. Now we are finishing for the temple the second floor slab. That should be finished at the end of the month, and then one more month, the main slab of the darśana-maṇḍapa, and then we start towers, which we already started now precasting. We have rings. We make rings which we put up later, one by one.

Prabhupāda: Oh, it is by ring.

Room Conversation -- November 15, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: There is a big park, San Diego.

Devotee: Balboa Park. You had one lecture there.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. So how far it is from the park.

Devotee: About ten or fifteen miles. You see it is more in, away from the ocean and it's located right in the middle of this college community where most of the residents are students of the university and the university has...

Prabhupāda: So you can get the chance of attracting students.

Devotee: Oh yes, yes of course, this is a main thing there of the location is in being around the student community.

Prabhupāda: San Diego seaside, I went. There are so many swimming clubs.

Devotee: In La Jolla.

Prabhupāda: The underneath, under within water they're swimming.

Room Conversation -- November 15, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Devotee: You know and then on each corner, kind of like, what do you call those?

Devotee: Cornice?

Devotee: You know with a little thing. And then right in the middle of the dome, we want to put like a big gold, not real gold but you know, gold-colored thing with flags.

Prabhupāda: Flags.

Devotee: Put flags on the top. Right exactly. This was our initial idea.

Prabhupāda: So why don't you make a temple like this? You see?

Devotees: (indistinct-talking together) ...attractive point.

Prabhupāda: But then you cannot deny that it is not a temple.

Devotee: Yeah, that's true. Actually...

Prabhupāda: Best thing is this type temple.

Room Conversation -- November 20, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: People are so misled. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to change this body. There is no preparation. "As sure as death." Death will take place, and you have to accept another body. Who understands this philosophy? Nobody. They are so dull-headed. This body finished, everything finished. All big, big leaders, scholars, they say. One gentleman, his name is... He was Rabindranath Tagore's brother, artist. So in a meeting he was saying, "We are so fool. Thinking of next life, next life, we are spoiling this life." He said like that long, long ago when we were children, young men, about eighteen years, twenty years. So I remember distinctly, he is saying in the meeting that "Simply thinking of next life, we are spoiling this life." He said. That was his explanation. So at that time we were young boys: "Yes, why we should think of, so much of next life?" Of course, I was not very much convinced, but naturally... I think his name Aurobindo Tagore, like that. Rabindranath Tagore. He is good artist. Artist means latest fashion, like this, like that, like that. He was considered to be latest artist. And his view is that. I talked with Professor Kotofsky. He said, "Swamiji, after finishing this body everything is finished." Communist. This is the cent per cent idea. The so-called scientists, they are thinking, by chemical evolution the body has come in existence. These things are discussed in Bhagavad-gītā. By accident, if it is a combination of chemicals, that means the bodily existence was not before. It has come in by accident, combination. "So why, Arjuna, you are lamenting for the body which was not in existence? And it will not exist after. Then why you are so much anxious for the middle portion?" Good reasoning. The body was not in existence. That is the general... And as soon as you finish, there is no more existence. So via media, between the manifestation and nonmanifestation, in the middle there is some manifesta... Why you are so much absorbed in that part? Therefore the Europeans, Americans, they bring in the charges, "brainwash." "A brainwash movement. It has no actual value. Simply an artificial way of pushing the idea in the brain. And they have to give up.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Where is this? One and a half hour?

Gurudāsa: One and a half hours. It is on the edge of Jushi, past, way past the first pontoon bridge.

Prabhupāda: Pontoon bridge.

Gurudāsa: But they put up some more pontoon bridges also this year. Very far off. Actually, there's not very much near there. He wanted to be far off because they don't do any preaching. And we wanted to be right in the middle.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is their purpose?

Gurudāsa: Their purpose is feeding a small group of sādhus that are in that area who want to be far off. Ekadaṇḍi. And they feed... The prasādam is good, that they give. He was correct. They are giving capatis and dhal to everyone.

Prabhupāda: Eating must be very nice, clean.

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Acchā. (laughs)

Rāmeśvara: Filling the whole sky and all directions.

Prabhupāda: Very good. So encourage them.

Rāmeśvara: This is inside one of the exhibits. This is part of the wall and this is a scene of the phalanxes at Kurukṣetra, and then behind them and above, there is this painting, and it is like a curve. In the middle will be Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna on the chariot.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughs) Very nice. People will so much appreciate it. Yes. They've never seen. From artistic point of view, it should be rewarded by government. And they are prosecuting us. This... What injustice... So many young men, they're exhibiting their talents in this art, and they are trying to harass us. What is this government? Put this matter before this government, that "Just see, your lordships, we are presenting culture, religion, knowledge, philosophy, art, and they are trying to condemn us. Do you think it is all right?" Simply ask. "It was never known in this country. And it is worthy. We are the first-class nation in the world, and we are still giving something more of our talent. Instead of encouraging government help, we have to suffer this harassment. Do you think it is justice?" Just put before him.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Naked? Fully naked?

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Hari-śauri: They would hold the festivals sometimes in the hills with a stream. It was very popular; everybody would go to the stream and bathe naked. And then the TV would come and film. There was one big one that they had in England, and the front pages on all the newspapers was one hippie couple that... Someone had spread some foam everywhere, and in the middle of the foam this hippie couple were naked having sex, and they put the picture in all the papers. This was love and peace.

Prabhupāda: I have seen John...

Hari-śauri: John Lennon.

Prabhupāda: ...naked.

Rāmeśvara: Naked. With his wife.

Prabhupāda: That picture is in his sitting room. I was talking with him in his sitting room, and fireplace and... Of course, that Chandler Place(?), a very big and glorious picture.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa was proved, and still He is proved. Who is reading others' book all over the world? Therefore He is God. Where is that book so respected as Bhagavad-gītā? Who is printing so many books? Not even Bible. They respected Bible. Why the foreigners are reading Bhagavad-gītā? That is the proof that Kṛṣṇa is God. During the Christmas festival we sold our books greatest number in the history. How many copies Bible you have sold? That is the proof. Here is God. Otherwise why Christians should purchase Bhagavad-gītā during Christmas holiday? And because Kṛṣṇa is God, therefore you have come to fight. Who is going to fight with Jehovah? Who is going to fight with Jehovah movement?

Hari-śauri: Well, just like in the Middle East area, if they want to describe God or if they want to glorify God, they refer to Him as the Almighty One. And that word that means "Almighty One" is Allah. So if in India they want to glorify God by calling Him the All-attractive One, and that word is Kṛṣṇa, then what is the wrong?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: They would take Christians and put them in the arena.

Rāmeśvara: That was their sport, entertainment, just like wrestling in India, but in the Middle East in Roman times the wrestling was fought until somebody had to be killed. That was their entertainment. They wanted to see them die. Even today, actually, all the entertainment in America and the Western world is based on violence. They have bull fighting. They want to see the bull tortured and killed. And they have chicken fighting and they have...

Prabhupāda: Dog fighting.

Rāmeśvara: And even the most popular sport in America now is football. It is more popular than baseball, and it's based on men jumping on each other. While one team is carrying the ball, every... A very violent sport.

Hari-śauri: And boxing also. So many different sports.

Rāmeśvara: They are fascinated by pain and fighting.

Prabhupāda: Torture. They like to see that somebody is tortured by another.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: Even in the big, rich families, when they want son they perform some pūjā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, no. According to Vedic system, everything is so... When the woman is pregnant there are so many ceremonies. When we were children, and I was in the middle, I saw my other, two, three brothers and sisters born. So there was some ceremony. We were eating with mother in that ceremony. That ceremony was because my mother was pregnant. Sad-bhakṣā. Sad-bhakṣā. There are ten kinds of ceremonies, before the birth and after the birth, daśa-vidha-saṁskāra. So many religious ceremonies my mother was observing, and all the expenditure my father was giving. Every month, two, three ceremonies, very nice ceremonies. We were children; we were eating. So we...

Gargamuni: A brāhmaṇa priest would come?

Prabhupāda: Eh? Brāhmaṇa priest would come. There would be pūjā. There would be nice feast. Now those things are gone.

Conversation During Massage -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: "One pound of flesh." The Jews were criticized long, long ago.

Hari-śauri: They were hated in the Middle Ages.

Rāmeśvara: America now has this policy that they will sell their guns to both sides.

Prabhupāda: That is all right, because they are doing business. So I am shopkeeper. Anyone pays, I shall... That is good.

Rāmeśvara: But no discrimination.

Prabhupāda: Why discrimination? I am selling. You come. Pay me. I shall give you.

Rāmeśvara: It's dangerous. They are promoting violence.

Prabhupāda: That dangerous in every item. This Gandhi was also dangerous, although superficially nonviolent. Everyone is dangerous. Until one is devotee, he's dangerous in any position. He's dangerous. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. It is mental concoction that "This is good; this is bad." Everything is bad.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So in March, if we go...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It will be nice in March.

Prabhupāda: By the middle?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, sometime in the middle.

Prabhupāda: Then we can arrange.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The climate, the weather, will be very nice.

Prabhupāda: Very nice. So make that arrangement

Gargamuni: All right. And we can go by road.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You go by road, and we go by plane. Or all of us, we can go by road. Is it possible? No.

Gargamuni: Well, the roads are not so good.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: A flight from here is only 220 rupees. And they're paying for six people, round trip.

Prabhupāda: Five hundred per head.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That is another difficulty. For general calculation a man can live up to a hundred years in this age. So in the middle, stop all rascaldom-compulsory. Now take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because you are persistent to continue your rascaldom, all right, do it up to this point. And then stop all this. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is a concession for continuing the rascaldom. But if he's so fool that he will continue the rascaldom as Jawaharlal Nehru did and Gandhi did and Hitler did and-up to the point of death—let him do. What can be done? They will continue their rascaldom. Mūḍhaḥ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Gandhi, unless he was killed by his own men, he did not retire. Jawaharlal Nehru, when he was just... There is no other way. He was in Dehra Dun, still Prime Minister, and he was brought very quickly from Dehra Dun to Delhi, and after one hour he died. All these politicians... And it is learned that he has become a dog in Scandinavia. You cannot say, "No," because you do not know what he has become. But tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. He must have changed the body. So where is your science? Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). The prakṛti will change your body. Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). And He's giving vivid example. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). And Kṛṣṇa is speaking. I shall not believe in Kṛṣṇa's word, and I shall go to some rascal? We are not so fool. Fools are bahir-artha-māninaḥ. "Oh, we are making this advancement. We will do in the future. We'll do."

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: People are speaking about our movement now. Many people say to us that "You are selling out, compromising your position." And they...

Prabhupāda: This should be stopped, immediately. Why they are doing that without..., concocting?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a great deal of not approval among many of the senior devotees.

Prabhupāda: So, immediately stop it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We were looking through a recent issue of the magazine, the most recent issue, and we were...

Prabhupāda: Bhāgavata is coming out.

Brahmānanda: That is there. (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is there. It is fortunate you are... We were all noting that point. They cannot touch that.

Prabhupāda: Bhāgavata is in the middle. (end)

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Ādi-keśava: He is in... This is one of the men who was used to hold a devotee during a deprogramming, a big... I know this man personally. You see, already we have sometimes come to blows with them. We had one incident where a devotee was being held captive, and I went with some devotees in the middle of the night, and we had some fighting. The police stopped us. They took me away and beat me and threw me in the bushes, and then they kept the boy there, the devotee. He got away later. But men like this we have fought with several times. When it comes to these questions, I wanted to know, when there is sometimes some violence...

Prabhupāda: What can be done? Violence. Beat him.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Sometimes in San Francisco one girl was typing. I was giving them sufficient work. Hayagrīva was typing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You had everyone busy trying to keep up. Even now I see that you're not at all wasting a second. Even in the middle of the night you call...

Prabhupāda: No, that, my... This is my childhood practice. I do not like to see anything wasted, nor I waste. I have told you many times that on the street I am going and seeing tap is open. I don't liked to see. I stop. Why it should be wasted?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You taught us like that. Go around turning off the lights, things like that.

Prabhupāda: Dr. Bose, Kartik Chandra Bose, his father was a go-down clerk in a tanner position(?). So in go-down, dāl go-down, dāl was falling down from the bag. Dr. Bose, Kartik Chandra Bose, he was a boy, he was taking the dāl and trying to push within the hole. So his father's name was Prasana(?) Bose. His master was a European. He said, "Oh, this boy will be very big man, your son." So he had no idea how to save it, but he was trying to. Dr. Bose personally told me that "I was trying to push the dāl through the hole within the bag." That is not possible, but he did not want to see waste. Why things should be wasted? Immediately that Mr. Morrison said to Prasana Bose, "Your this child will be..." So I had the same tendency. Dr. Bose liked me very much. Very much. He found me a prototype boy.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That's not good.

Rāmeśvara: In the past we were using either a photograph of devotees on the cover doing something or a painting. And in the middle of the magazine we used to have stories either from Kṛṣṇa book or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Rāmeśvara: Then there was the use for some pictures.

Prabhupāda: So, do this.

Rāmeśvara: Sometimes they don't... They print different contents.

Prabhupāda: No, we are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa must be there.

Hari-śauri: We can't produce a magazine without Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Without Kṛṣṇa. That is not good. We cannot allow.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: First week? What did...?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, at the end of the first week of April, or in the middle of April at the latest. Then, in about six months, I have decided to finish the book we have been writing. So by six months' full time, all three of us together can work hard... There's a lot to be studied, studies, studies. So I've made a proposal for the three of us in which we'd work real hard for six months to finish the book. And then, by that time we would have the first volume of the journal plus the book. So we can go out for preaching. We can all have the material for... Just speaking, sometimes it's so difficult for others to understand what's there. They want to really study our work. And then we can also do some saṅkīrtana while we're preaching. Then in the future we might also be self-sufficient, not supplying any money from BBT. It will be a burden to the BBT fund, and so also we wanted to generate so that it can be self-sufficient, rather than donation by BBT.

Prabhupāda: They pay for scientific lecture. When there is some scientific lecture...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. We are going to charge high also this time. That's going to be... It involves a lot of hard work, and the scientific community will be open for this type of.... We are not saying something dogmatic. We are presenting in such a manner that it's very scientific and it's ready for discussion. There's no way that they can check it, that "It's coming from this movement. So, no, that's no knowledge." It must be open. It must be open-minded. We must change our views. And if you feel that our views are inferior, then you tell us. If it's inferior, then there is no reason that you shouldn't take it seriously.

Prabhupāda: So when Bombay festival will go on, your presence will be required.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: From the newspaper I see that the United States is praising a lot this election.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The democratic campaign. But from our point of view, these are not the solution. Temporary. Temporary relief. Daṇḍya jane rāja yena nadīte cubāya.(?) You know this? Daṇḍya jane rāja yena nadīte cubāya. I have spoken several times in... Formerly, the criminal was taken in the middle of the river and he was drowned. And when he was suffocating, he's held up. Then he, ahhh (takes deep breath). This relief is like that. That means as soon as he takes little strength, again, put again. Then daṇḍya jane rāja yena nadīte cubāya.(?) These rascals are like that. For the time being there is little relief: "Oh, we are now free from the leaders." And there is another hand is being created. Bābājī or something like that. Then again they shall put his... This is going on.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Due to this rain, they'll have good food... (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...very comfortable for traveling. It's very good for the crops. And I also have two offers of land in Manipur to build a temple, Hare Kṛṣṇa temple, from two places. One is right in the middle of the town, and one is little away, about seventeen miles. And I'll show you the map, the place. It's..., lot of it is sort of competitor. They wanted a temple built in one of these lands that they offered, so the two groups are...

Prabhupāda: If people cooperate, we can have two temples. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4).

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually the land, the second land, it is on the hillside. From there you can see the whole of Manipur, because it is... The land is like this...

Prabhupāda: Scenery.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Scenery's just beautiful. It's all on the foothills, and it's very charming, with the banyan trees and the monkeys, four classes of monkeys.

Prabhupāda: They are receptive.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They were so enthusiastic that they even gave me a blueprint of the map of Manipur to show Śrīla Prabhupāda. This is the... Here is the capital, here, in the middle, Imphal. And the one is little smaller, in Imphal, in the capital. And it is also very close to the Govinda Temple that I was describing. And there is a mūrti of Hanumān that the people worship there in this... It's just like little forest. In the middle of this forest there is a small, little temple. There they worship Hanumān.

Prabhupāda: Govindajī Temple?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Govindajī's temple is just in front.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And it is right in the middle of the center, this place, this forest?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, it's not in the middle. It's on the side, one of the sides of the... And there's a river, this Imphal River. It almost surrounds this little forest. And this forest is full of monkeys and so many birds, and they are very natural. It is about seven acres. It's not very big. Seven acres of land.

Prabhupāda: Seven acres.

Morning Talk -- April 25, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no. He is a gṛhastha. He must pay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, I mean... No, I mean, he must pay. No, we're not paying for him. I mean, I'm going to lay the money out for him. No, I guarantee I'll get the money.

Prabhupāda: Another thing you say privately. He has got a bad habit. When I am speaking, in the middle he speaks.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This gentleman, Mr. Dwivedi.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Kārttikeya. He... Nobody should speak when I am speaking.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: Unless he's permitted. That is the etiquette. It is not ordinary talk.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: Everyone should take note of this, and you can privately say, "You never speak like that. The etiquette is: when you are permitted by Guru Mahārāja, you can speak," not that "He is speaking. I know better than him. I shall speak something." That's very licentious. It is not ordinary talk. The system is unless he is ordered that "You explain," then nobody can talk. And outsider, they may do. They should not... They also should not, but that is the system. And Viśvambhara may... If possible, he can come for one or two days.

Evening Darsana -- May 15, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Dūre parjakanam(?) tīrtham. If gaṅgā-jala is pure, it is pure here and there also. So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, tīrtha-yātrā pariśrama, kevala manera bhrama: "It is simply satisfying the mind." Otherwise, wherever there is Ganges, there is Yamunā, that is sacred place. Delhi also, sacred place. There is Gaṅgā. Anyway, so, we should take advantage of the knowledge of sādhu. And that is real progress. So catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtinaḥ. Four kinds of men, they come to God, Kṛṣṇa. God means Kṛṣṇa, not ordinary... Caitanya Mahāprabhu said,

ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva
guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja
(CC Madhya 19.151)

Kṛṣṇa also says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). To approach Kṛṣṇa is not so easy thing. After many, many births... We are rotating... (break) ...superintendent of this egglike aṇḍa, universe. It is all Brahmā's. And there are innumerable planets. That we can see. So we are wandering in all these places, sometimes down, sometimes up, sometimes in the middle, according to our karma, in different species of life, in different planets, in different position. So we are rotating. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "Out of these innumerable living entities who are entrapped with this brahmāṇḍa and janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi... (BG 13.9)." Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3).

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What about my house?

Bhavānanda: That money has just been received, and the plans have arrived from Delhi, but we are wanting an architect in Calcutta, competent architect to... Because we don't want to have anything go wrong in the middle. Ram Nrisinghatar(?) was saying that Mistri is interested in doing Prabhupāda's house. The house and gorgeous garden we have, with fountains and terraces and walkways, all around, before and behind the house, on either side, all enclosed and private.

Prabhupāda: Not yet begun?

Jayapatākā: They say there's no... Because we've just received the plan now from Saurabh, so the architect said there's no difficulty. Now he thinks we can begin right through the rainy season. We can work through the rainy season. There's no difficulty for that. If it was a big building, then in the rainy season we could not build.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How long it will take?

Bhavānanda: Six months.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By October, November.

Jayapatākā: (aside, discussion with Bhavānanda about building)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, I think you are tied to this planet by the love of your devotees.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They can walk. This flower garden... Why not? Footpaths.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There can be a footpath.

Prabhupāda: But in the middle there must be very nice flower garden.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: 'Cause sometime visitors, sometimes it may be noisy and disturbing to the students if visitors start to walk within the...

Prabhupāda: No, you can take them to walk.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should not be for that. For the special guests only.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct-bad tape) (break) So now our next business is to bring students, brahmacārī. So easy process is to approach wealthy(?) gentleman. In their family there are many children, one, two, three, like that. So approach them and plead them that "Children from your family are expected to be very respectable boys, character and devotee, educated. From your family, people expect like that. According to Cāṇakya Paṇḍita's instruction, he says, ko 'rthaḥ putreṇa jātena yo na vidvān na bhaktimān. 'What is the use of begetting children like cats and dogs?' The children must be vidvān, that is, learned, and bhaktimān, devotee. This is the ideal. And what is the use of begetting cats and dogs? Ko 'rthaḥ putreṇa jātena yo na vidvān na bhaktimān. Either he should be bhaktimān or vidvān. This vidvān and bhaktimān, that is ideal. So we are going to teach your son to become vidvān and bhaktimān. So don't you like to bring your son?" You have to tell them like that. And present it rightly. The Prime Minister and her son or his son, he is debauch number one. Do you think the society can be happy? The father and mother is Prime Minister, and the son is a debauch number one. What is this? That is going on. So we are... "For the good of the society you can send your son to become vidvān, bhaktimān. Then, after some time, you can engage your son in any way. That is the... If they are found it, vidvān and bhaktimān, then everything will be all right. And if gone rascals, then what good for the society? Just think. Am I right or wrong?" You have to convince like that. What do you think about this?

Gurukula Inspection -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Flower.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He wants gardens.

Prabhupāda: Not big tree.

Dr. Sharma: Just for flower bed. In the middle we'll keep the fountain, and all around the fountain...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fountain in the middle, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Garden must be there. And all around, pathway. Very good.

Indian man (2): But Swamiji, the fountain or the garden should be in the center or in one corner?

Prabhupāda: No, center.

Indian man (2): The center of this...

Prabhupāda: That will be very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Big fountain in the center, just like in your garden there's a big fountain.

Prabhupāda: That will be soothing also. All right.

Letter from Yugoslavia--'Books!' -- June 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: How they'll do? They have no asset. Engrossed with bogus things, cheating. That was my ambition. You have seen that Delhi shop? He was preparing first-class ghee, and all, hundred... So we are giving the real spiritual life. Automatically there is response. Customers will come. And (indistinct). And you can cheat somebody. (pause)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the Śyāmasundara Deity in temple today was beautiful.

Prabhupāda: That Deity is very, very nice, Śyāmasundara. Yaṁ śyāmasundaram acintya-guṇa-svarūpaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When you see that Deity, are you... Do you call it Śyāmasundara or Govinda?

Prabhupāda: And Śyāmasundara is good name.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: More appropriate.

Prabhupāda: Nitāi-Gaura, Rādhā-Śyāma, Jaya Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma. (laughter) That includes all our Deities. Nitāi-Gaura, Rādhā-Śyāma, Jaya Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma. The "jaya" word is in the middle with this "Jaya, Haribol."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya is very auspicious.

Prabhupāda: I don't think there is any other temple in India, in this quarter... I can say, in India... (end)

Bhu-mandala Diagram Discussion -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They have to stand up on the chairs because it's so big. Big project. This is only one drawing. Imagine the planetarium. (break)

Yaśodā-nandana: The directions are north, east and south and west. In the middle here, right in the middle, there is Mount Meru, which is very, very small. The scale, it comes to be one centimeter... What is this measurement estimate?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One twentieth of a centimeter.

Yaśodā-nandana: One twentieth of a centimeter is calculated 100,000 yojanas. One lakh of yojanas is one twentieth of a centimeter.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, that one twentieth of a centimeter... One centimeter is about just the tip of the finger, so one twentieth of this is 100,000 yojanas. Actually you cannot even see Mount Meru on this picture. It is so small that we could not even draw it. It's just a pinpoint.

Yaśodā-nandana: Mount Meru is in the middle, and then, surrounding Mount Meru, is the whole Jambūdvīpa. Jambūdvīpa is 100,000 yojanas or (sic) 800 miles in length and width. These are the maps we have shown you already previously. And surrounding Jambūdvīpa in the salt ocean, this very little circle... The south ocean is the same width as Jambūdvīpa, or 100,000 yojanas. That is 800,000 miles. And it is all around Jambūdvīpa. Here it is. Maybe you can see. Then there is the south part of the ocean. You can see here?

Bhakti-prema: No, Plakṣadvīpa is the orange dot.

Yaśodā-nandana: Then surrounding Jambūdvīpa then there is Plakṣadvīpa, the next dvīpa, which is... Around the salt ocean there is Plakṣadvīpa. That is the planet beside(?) of the river we call ocean. That is 200,000 yojanas, or 1,600,000 miles. That is right in the middle.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually you can hardly see it there. It's very small.

Yaśodā-nandana: Then, surrounding Plakṣadvīpa is another ocean, the sugarcane ocean. That sugarcane ocean is the same length as Plakṣadvīpa, or 200,000 yojanas, or 1,600,000 miles. And one each one of these dvīpas...

Prabhupāda: So in each ocean there are islands?

Bhakti-prema: No. These are all ocean.

Prabhupāda: Simply ocean.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You do not know what is going on outside.

Devotee: There's so many round parts of a lotus petal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that part...That could be adjusted. But there's a place within it, you know, the center part, there's no petals. In the middle of the lotus there's like a... I don't know what you call it, but a... It's a flattish area. They show Kṛṣṇa standing sometimes when they draw a picture of Kṛṣṇa on a lotus.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But your place is in.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That we accept.

Prabhupāda: That we have to hear from authority.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We accept that. I'm just thinking...

Prabhupāda: Unless you are obstinate, you have to accept if you are convinced.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We accept.

Room Conversations -- July 7, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You can give me.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I remember that. It seemed to have good effects. It also helped for digestion.

Prabhupāda: So any other?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Actually I'm right in the middle of doing these accounts, so I probably should...

Prabhupāda: (coughing) So this bank manager came. It means they are little serious.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, this is a real good sign. The last request of the head office is a very good sign. The head office is requesting, "Now please take the letter for him to sign..." It means that they're planning how to get the branch open. And I told this man that "If you get this opened, then surely we will open your branch in our Māyāpur center as well in all other centers."

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are a good bank. There's no doubt.

Prabhupāda: That Mr. Neta came?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His name is Mr. Pattak, isn't it?

Prabhupāda: Oh, Pattak, Pattak, yes. That's all right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: After massage I can come and see you and give some... (end)

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And police did not help?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, it was in the middle of the night. So probably by the time they informed the police, you know, by the time the police came, whatever was done was done. I mean, Gopāla didn't have the full information, and he's going there. And, of course, we were only talking over telephone, so even if he knew... He told me as much as he could over the telephone. But I asked if anyone was killed. He said no. But five devotees were in the hospital. You know that teacher who was here? Hiraṇyagarbha? Remember the gurukula teacher? He was stabbed. I think that's about the most serious that anyone was hurt. No one was killed or anything, but... The government now is very precarious there. It's all Communist government. I mean, I remember when Bengal was with the Communists in 1971. It was horrible there. So many marches, and so many of our members were being attacked. So maybe it was the Communists who did this. I don't think the Gauḍīya Maṭha could have organized such a thing. They would not do that.

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It sounds like... I don't know if there's any... Probably they won't attack again immediately. Now there must be police all the time there. I remember, in Calcutta once we had some trouble. Immediately they put a police guard all the time. The question is, of course, how much the government will protect us if the government is Communist and these were Communists who attacked. That we'll have to see.

Prabhupāda: No. It has to be taken to the Central Government.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No. Vyāsāsana is good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So either one is all right.

Prabhupāda: No. If there is picture in the middle and vyāsāsana.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So these mūrtis can be placed on the vyāsāsana.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, what about Guru-Gaurāṅga? Just like in Kṛṣṇa-Kāliya temple they're going to have it on the altar.

Prabhupāda: So one place will be good, the same.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So if there's enough room on the altar it can be there.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Otherwise on the vyāsāsana.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Very costly.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...very, very important. Just off Oxford Street.

Prabhupāda: The corner.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just off the corner, in the middle of the block.

Prabhupāda: They said that report following will come.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Report is coming. In the telegram that we received? Yeah, it said, "Report follows." I think some activity is good. Somehow I get the idea that you need to be more active. I know that you don't have any strength, but still, it seems to me unless you are active, you won't get your strength.

Prabhupāda: Hm. That's a fact.

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So you give some... We are getting many other land. If your becomes ideal, you can teach them. People are coming for chanting?

Yaśomatīnandana: Yes. One gṛhastha is there, and the first week he went there, every night three hundred people were coming.

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Yaśomatīnandana: And that was in the middle of the desert. Not desert, in the middle of like jungle, you know.

Prabhupāda: That I want.

Yaśomatīnandana: It's fifteen minutes away from the...

Prabhupāda: We don't want any profit. We don't want any profit. You produce. You eat. You chant. Organize. Don't go outside.

Yaśomatīnandana: Don't go to the cities.

Prabhupāda: No. Be man of character. No illicit sex, no intoxication. Vaiṣṇava. Eat sufficiently, dress sufficiently. Live very comfortably. Whatever profit is there, it should be invested again for books. That's... Because we are investing money, our land... Therefore we are not profited. Beneficiary, you. It is a cooperative society. You produce your needs, live comfortably, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Our only interest is that you are taking interest in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, working. Otherwise we don't want to exploit you. That is not... If there is no sufficient, you can... We help you manage it. You manage your own affair. We give you direction. Live happily, chant. This should be... Will not they agree?

Visit From Allopathic Doctor -- October 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: ...exactly where he stands. He told us that he's living in the middle of all this. He's completely surrounded by them. He is opportunist. Hṛṣīkeśa Mahārāja from Caitanya Maṭha, they are giving us support. But Saranga Babu is saying that...

Indian man: (Bengali)

Bhavānanda: President, Caitanya Maṭha. (break)

Harikeśa: ...praised Īśopaniṣad. This Yugoslavian professor is very famous.

Prabhupāda: Famous?

Harikeśa: We made it very scholarly, because I remember last time you said it should be very scholarly. We printed ten thousand copies of this.

Prabhupāda: Selling?

Harikeśa: Yes, we can sell these like anything, because in Yugoslavia we can pretend we're going to Greece, and we can bring as many as we like and then we can sell these.

Prabhupāda: So why not print ten million?

Harikeśa: I only had time to print ten thousand, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We did it in one day from the flats to this book in one day, just so I could bring it to you. This is the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Second Canto, First Volume, with Śrī-Śrī-Rādhā-London-īśvara. This we printed twenty thousand copies.

Prabhupāda: Selling?

Harikeśa: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Why not immediately?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, right in the middle of the conference... They can do it for the evening one. They can probably change it by five-thirty. Another thing is that these men, these scientists of ours, they are just beginning to practice speaking. Just like our sannyāsīs, we get to speak in the temples practically all the time. But these men are new at lecturing. So they require further practice in their presentation to make it very interesting—which they will get automatically by doing what they are doing. Another really important thing, I feel, is that I think it would be much more interesting if someone with an opposing opinion were to speak first, say, some other scientist we could invite who would speak on the same subject but from a different point of view. Then our man would speak from the Kṛṣṇa conscious point of view. Then people could ask questions. Because the audience I think very much appreciates when there's a little bit of, er, a dialogue. Debate.

Mādhava: They have such a speaker in physics. He's going to speak that life comes from matter.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. That's good. Because otherwise... I looked at the audience this afternoon. First of all, there weren't that many. There was only about fifteen men attending this afternoon's lecture.

Gurukṛpā: Scientists, fifteen.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Fifteen scientists. There were devotees. Our sannyāsīs, GBC men were there. And I looked at them, and some of them weren't that interested, mainly because it's just... It's just too one-sided, I think. There's not enough action going on to keep their attention. I'm going to speak... I haven't spoken to Svarūpa Dāmodara yet. I'm going to right now. I spoke to Rūpānuga, who was in the back, because he's helping to organize. I think it's very good, because gradually, as we hold more conferences, they'll learn to improve their presentation. This is why Svarūpa Dāmodara wanted to begin in India, so that when he finally got to the West he'd be very strong and it would be very good. Here it's a little easier.

Prabhupāda: So not all the doctors who...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. In other words, there's a big enough program so that... They pick which conference they want to come to. They don't come to every lecture. They may only come to one or two in a day. Today I think there's three. Right? Three lectures? So probably they might attend one or two of them. Of course, some people might attend all of them.

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Enroll the intelligent men.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In the meantime I'm thinking of a small office here in Vṛndāvana, because Vṛndāvana I'll come back now and then, often, and I'd like to have a small place also to do some writing here. It's a nice atmosphere, quiet, and also they have all the facilities here to do some writing. So I just went to buy a..., got this almirah for the office in Mathurā, Dr. Sharma. In about a month we'll go to Bombay temple and try to furnish the Institute offices and also try to make some contact with the scholars. I'm thinking of holding a short conference in Bombay. It will be like here in Vṛndāvana. Bombay's already many scholars, and right in the middle of the city, so it will be a lot easier in Bombay also. Big cities like Delhi, I think can get many scholars. In Vṛndāvana not so many came, but those few came, they were quite nice, and we learned something from this conference.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was speaking with Śrīla Prabhupāda the other day that it doesn't seem that Vṛndāvana would be a good place to construct an entire building for Bhaktivedanta Institute.

Prabhupāda: Why? There is already a building.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: If not, so that means hopeless.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Let us wait, Śrīla Prabhupāda, because he should be here very shortly. I mean it's actually miraculous how quickly everything was done, how we were able to call Calcutta in the middle of the night, how Adri-dhāraṇa was able to get the man and bring him on a train..., plane by noontime, how we again were able to reach Calcutta on the telephone and get this information. So far, it appears that everything is very quickly being done. So we just have to be a little... You know. We have to be a little bit patient.

Prabhupāda: Do you think I shall die very quickly?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Do you think I shall die very quick?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I don't think you shall die.

Prabhupāda: I wanted that kavirāja last night, so he was not possible?(?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Which one?

Prabhupāda: That kavirāja from Calcutta.

Page Title:In the middle (Conversations)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:25 of Mar, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=105, Let=0
No. of Quotes:105