Prabhupāda: Then if we understand our relationship, we can act accordingly. At the present moment we are, some of us declining God. "There is no God." Some of them have little conception of God, "God is great," but they do not try to understand what is actual relationship with God. They are not very serious. In this way, practically we are avoiding our eternal relationship with God, and therefore we cannot act properly, and that is the cause of all miseries. That is the cause of all problems. Just like if you do not know the state laws, then you do not act properly. You are always criminal. For example, if you do not know how to drive, "keep to the right," if you drive to the left, you may think, "Oh, it is after all driving. What does it matter, right or left?" But no. As soon as you drive left, you become criminal. Similarly, because we do not know our relationship with God, therefore we are acting wrongly, and therefore, under the laws of God, we are becoming more and more criminal and our problems are increasing. Therefore, in spite of advancement of education, science, civilization, a nice dress, car, and everything, nobody trusts nobody. You see? Everywhere you go, a gentleman's house, oh, "Beware of the dog," "No trespasser allowed." Always suspicious. An individual person is suspicious of another individual person. A nation is suspicious of another nation.
In spite of... (Conversations 1968 - 1975)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Manifestation of Kṛṣṇa in five expansions. Kṛṣṇa can expand Himself. Not only Kṛṣṇa, even a perfect yogi he can also expand. Not as many as Kṛṣṇa. But a perfect yogi, from the scriptures we can understand that a perfect yogi can expand himself up to eight, up to nine forms. There was one Saubhari Muni. The Saubhari Muni he used to perform yoga practice within water. There were many sages who used to practice. Somebody within water. Somebody surrounding fire and in the midst. That means voluntarily putting the body into trouble, and at the same time executing yoga practice. They were so much advanced that in spite of all material trouble they would be able to execute spiritual duties. Saubhari Muni was sexually agitated within the water by the fishes. So he came out of the water, and the neighboring king, I forgot the name, he went there and demanded the king that "I want to marry your daughter. So give me your daughter." The king thought... (laughs) He was so ugly because he was within the water. So all body was, what is called?
Prabhupāda: There must have been some pious activities in your past lives. Therefore you have taken to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness seriously. Bhagavad-gītā says, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ. (BG 7.28) A sinful person cannot understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is said, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ. One who has completely vanquished all sorts of sinful reactions. Now, the question may be that whether one can finish all sorts of sinful reactions within this material world. No, that is not possible. But it is possible also. What is that? That is also answered in the Bhagavad-gītā that "You give up everything. Surrender unto Me. I shall give you protection from all sinful reactions." So I may be sinful and there are so many reactions awaiting me for giving me trouble, but as soon as Kṛṣṇa takes charge of me, then everything is finished. How it can be finished? Because He is all-powerful, He's the supreme. Just like if the president says... One man is ordered to be hanged. If the president says, "No, he should not be hanged," then immediately all others sanction. Because he's the supreme. Similarly, if we surrender to Kṛṣṇa, in spite of a huge stock of sinful reactions awaiting me, simply for the purpose of my surrendering to Kṛṣṇa they're all set aside by Kṛṣṇa. He'll see to it. Simply surrender. And that surrender, as soon as it is done, then the other word says, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ... (BG 7.28).
Prabhupāda: It is not exactly the hierarchy, but in the Christian method, Roman Catholic method, the process of the Pope, Archbishop, and..., that is very nice. There is no objection of us. But our point is that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is lacking. In spite of all arrangement, if people lost faith in God, so simply by hierarchy, what is the benefit there? There is no benefit. You see? Bambarambhe laghu-kriya, in the Sanskrit word, that you can make a very high-grade arrangement, but the result is zero. So that hierarchical arrangement is exactly not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But our method is very simple. If one is fortunate enough to meet a bona fide spiritual master and if he acts strictly under his discipline, he also becomes within a very short time another spiritual master.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That's all right. He is American. He is human being. In so many qualities you are one. But you cannot claim for that, you are President Nixon. You should understand in that way. In so many respect, qualities, you are one with God, but that does not mean you are God. God is one. That means you have no complete understanding. Just like in spite of your becoming American or human being, you deny to identify yourself with President Nixon because you have full knowledge of President Nixon and yourself. And as soon as you say, "I am God," that means you have no full knowledge of God. You are insane. You do not know what is God. That very thing immediately asserts that you are unknown factor about God. God is said, "Great," but you are claiming that greatness. That means you do not know how great He is. A tiny factor, you are claiming that "I am God," without having that greatness. That means insane, insanity. The same way: if you claim that "I am President Nixon," that is insanity. Similarly, God is, how great He is, how much greater than President Nixon. You deny to become one with President Nixon, and you accept to be one with God? How much insane you are. Just try to understand. Yes?
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Not that he does not believe in God. One may believe in God, but one who does not believe in the Vedic literature, he is called nāstika. Veda na manīyā bauddha haila nāstika. Lord Buddha, although he is accepted as incarnation of God, but because he defied the Vedic principles it is said, nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātaṁ. Lord Buddha criticized the, I mean to say, sacrificial ceremonies because in the sacrificial ceremonies sometimes there is recommendation of killing an animal. But he was preaching nonviolence. So he criticized even the sacrifice in yajña. He criticized. Nindasi... But a Vaiṣṇava is praying, "My dear Lord, you are defying the Vedic principles." He knows why the Lord is now defying the Vedic principles; therefore he is devotee. In spite of Lord Buddha's defying the Vedic principles, a devotee is offering him obeisances. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. He knows the Lord, how He is playing, how He is bewildering the atheistic class of men. The atheistic class of men did not believe in God. Lord Buddha says, "Yes, you don't require to believe in God. There is no God. But you feel yourself that when you are attacked with violence you feel pain. Why should you offer to others?" Because his mission was to stop animal killing.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is stated, kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ: "In this age practically all men will be śūdras." That is... That is predicted. But if there are simply śūdras, then the social order will be destroyed. You... Just like in spite of your state of śūdras, a brāhmaṇa is found here. And that is necessity. So if you do not divide the social order in such a way, then there will be chaos. that is the scientific estimation of the Vedas. You may... You may belong for the time being to the śūdra class, but to maintain the social order you have to train some of the śūdras to become brāhmaṇa, some of the śūdras to become kṣatriyas. You cannot depend on the śūdras. Then there will be chaos. Neither you can depend only on brāhmaṇa. Just like to fulfill the necessities of your body there must be a portion called the brain, there must be a portion called the arms, there must be a portion called the stomach, or the belly, and there must be a portion which is called the leg. The leg is also required, the brain is also required, the arm is also required—for cooperation, to fulfill the mission of the whole body.
Prabhupāda: It is impossible. Our idea is that best ideas from the original idea. Just like in the Bhāgavata there is a description of communistic idea, and it is being described to Mahārāja Yudhisthira. So if there is something good, good experience, why it should not be adopted? That is our point of view. And besides that, in the modern civilization they are missing one point: the aim of human life, scientifically. The aim of human life is self-realization, ātmā-tattvam. It is said, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ yāvan na jijñāsa ātmā-tattvam. Unless the human society comes to the point of self-realization, whatever they are doing, they are being defeated, parābhava. I think you know this word, parābhava. Parābhava. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. So actually it is happening so. The modern society, human society, there is advancement, economic advancement, so many things, advancement. Still, in the matter of keeping peace and tranquility there is fight, individually, socially, politically, nationally. So if we think very cool-headed, then in spite of so much improvement in so many branches of knowledge, we are keeping the same mentality of quarreling. That is also visible in lower animal society. So our conclusion, according to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that this body, human body, it is not meant for working very hard for sense gratification. In the modern civilization the ultimate goal, aim, is sense gratification. That's all.
Prabhupāda: That is...
Prof. Kotovsky: If we can... So science and philosophy. But another...
Prabhupāda: One religion may accept. One may... That is not our purpose. We are talking on the point of that if the owner of the body is permanent in spite of different change of the body, then what is the difficulty to understand that when this body will be changed, the owner of the body will have another body?
Prof. Kotovsky: But another approach is that there is no separate own..., there is no separate..., no two phenomena, owner of the body and body.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prof. Kotovsky: The body and owner of the body is the same.
Prabhupāda: No.
Prabhupāda: The movement of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is very firm. (makes comment about other room; loud sounds of kīrtana and fire yajña) Bhagavad-gītā was there, so Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement was there. India, it was existing. Unfortunately, some of the less intelligent swamis and philosophers, they could not understand what is Kṛṣṇa, and they misinterpreted the Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore people could not understand. In spite of reading Bhagavad-gītā all the world over, they were not aware what is Kṛṣṇa, although Bhagavad-gītā is Kṛṣṇa understanding. You have read Bhagavad-gītā?
Mohsin Hassan: Oh, yes. Beginning to end.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: These people or this revolution is meant for killing the sinful resultant actions of the people. This revolution. Janatā agha, agha means resultant action of sinful life. Janatā agha viplavaḥ. Viplavaḥ means revolution, this very word is used. Tad-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavo yasmin prati-ślokam abaddhavaty api (SB 1.5.11). Such revolutionary literature, even they are not properly composed. Yasmin prati-ślokam abaddham. Not according to the grammatical rules and other rhetorical rules, but the, I mean to say, thoughts and the effects of such revolutionary literature is required. Not the grammatical. The so-called rascals, they are concerned with the grammatical. But those who are actually worker, they are concerned with the thoughts. What is the thought is there? Therefore, it is said that tad-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavo yasmin prati-ślokam abaddhavaty api, nāmāny anantasya yaśo 'nkitāni yat (SB 1.5.11). If there is simply the attempt is there how to glorify the Supreme Lord, that is a fact. It doesn't matter whether it is written in correct language or incorrect language, it doesn't matter. If the whole thought is targeted to glorify the Supreme Lord, then nāmāny anantasya yaśo 'nkitāni yat gṛṇanti gāyanti śṛṇvanti sādhavaḥ. Then those who are actually sādhu, even in spite of all these defects, because the only attempt is to glorify the Lord, then those who are sādhu, those who are devotee, they hear it. Śṛṇvanti gāyanti gṛṇanti. Not only hear, they chant also the same thing.
Prabhupāda: No, earth... Earth has no separate existence without Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, "It's my energy." You cannot separate the energy and the energetic. It is not possible. You cannot separate heat from fire. But fire is different from the heat. And heat is different from the fire. You are taking heat, that does not mean you are touching fire. Fire, in spite of expanding heat, it keeps its identity. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa by His different energies creating everything, He remains Kṛṣṇa. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they think, "If Kṛṣṇa is everything, then Kṛṣṇa's separate identity is not there." That is material thinking. Just like drinking this milk, so little, little, when I finish, there is no more milk. It has gone to my belly. Kṛṣṇa is not like that. Because He's omnipotent, we are utilizing His energy continually, but still He's there, present. Just like a man begetting children unlimitedly, but the man is there. Crude example. But not that because he has produced hundreds of children, therefore he is finished. So similarly, God or Kṛṣṇa, in spite of His unlimited number of children, He's there.
Prabhupāda: That is not fault. Suppose you are trying to do something and due to your inexperience you sometimes fail, that is not fault. You are trying. There is a verse in Bhāgavata that a devotee is trying his best, but due to his incapability he sometimes fails. So Kṛṣṇa excuses. And in the Bhagavad-gītā also it is said, api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk (BG 9.30). By, due to his bad habit, past, sometimes, not willingly, but due to his habit, habit is second nature, he does something nonsense. But that does not mean he is faulty. But he must repent for that, that "I have done this." And should try to avoid as far as possible. But habit is the second nature. Sometimes, in spite of our trying hard, the māyā is so strong, push me into pitfalls. That can be excused. Kṛṣṇa excuses. But those who are doing willingly something, that is not excused. On the strength that "I am a devotee, I am chanting. Therefore I may commit all this nonsense, it will be nullified." That is the greatest offense. (end)
Prabhupāda: He must have some particular qualities or conditions fulfilled, then he will be accepted as citizen or immigrant. Similarly, if we want to go back to home, back to Godhead, then we must develop our dormant spiritual qualities, and that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is the training period for going back to home, back to Godhead. So that after giving up this body or after this time's death, others who are dying they do not know what next life they are getting. They, although they are proud of education, but they do not discuss what is the constitutional position of the soul, how he is transferring from one body to another, how it is to be done. This science is unknown to the modern education. Is it not? They do not know. They simply speculate. That is the defect of modern educational system, and actually everyone is seeking for spiritual emancipation. Therefore in your country, in spite of so many big, big universities, you are producing hippies, hopeless population. Am I saying right or not? Your are university teacher. I have seen in so many universities.
Prabhupāda: How can these boys, who have been trained to practice these four items from the beginning of their lives, give them all up? Everything is possible, provided we make the choice. Therefore according to Vedic civilization in the beginning of life you become a brahmacārī. Then you are allowed to marry and become a householder, and after a number of years you remain a husband but abandon sexuality, and that is called vānaprastha. Finally you take sannyāsa and leave your family to practice and preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is Vedic civilization. Everything is provided to enlighten the people in general. All the knowledge is there, and the method is there; we simply have to take advantage of it. If we do not, how can we expect a peaceful and happy world? If society creates animals, then how can it expect peace and prosperity? In spite of so many big universities and all educational facilities, this society is producing hippies and frustration amongst the youth because we are spirit soul and cannot become happy simply by amassing material comforts. We must have spiritual life. If a fish is taken out of water, it cannot be made happy with all the comforts of land. To be happy, a fish must have all the freedom of water. Similarly, we are all spiritual sparks, and we cannot become happy in matter. We require spiritual food, spiritual atmosphere.
Prabhupāda: It is a fact. Just like this child is transmigrating from one body, one kind of body to another body. So in the same way, when I give up this body I transmigrate to another body. This is the science. Unfortunately, there is no university, no education, no culture of this great science. Therefore according to Bhāgavatam, the knowledge is imperfect. The knowledge which are imparting from universities, they are not perfect knowledge. And this human form of body is the opportunity to understand the position of the soul and how he is transmigrating from one body to another, what is happening next. In this way, in this human form of body, we can understand this science, science of soul. Unfortunately, no education is there to understand this science. So in other words, it may be taken that the modern civilization is killing the prerogative of the human being. He has got a chance to understand himself and to stop. He can stop this repetition of birth and death. He can remain in a spiritual form in the spiritual kingdom or with God, but these things are unknown to him, because there is no discussion in any university or any institution of knowledge. Although the Vedic literature gives us ample information of this—in the the Bhagavad-gītā, that is the preliminary study of all Vedic literature—but there is no chance for the people to understand. This is the defect of the modern civilization. Therefore it is necessary. And actually, because there is no sufficient knowledge of the position, I see the American boys and girls, although they are coming out very rich and respectable family, they are turning to hippies. In spite of your arrangement for very big, big university, they are becoming frustrated.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So when the meaning is not clear, then you can interpret. But when the meaning is clear... Just like Bhagavad-gītā: dharmakṣetre kurukṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). Now Kurukṣetra is still there, in..., about 90 miles away from Delhi. Perhaps you have been there. The station is there, Kurukṣetra. Now how one can interpret that kurukṣetra means this body? This is going on. In spite of clear understanding, they interpret in their own way so that they have got their own philosophy, they want to support. This is going on. So if you kindly avoid this misleading interpretation, and if you take Bhagavad-gītā as it is, then you get the science of God, science of religion, which is applicable either to Indonesian or Indian or African or American, everyone. The science is appreciated everywhere. Two plus two equal to four, this mathematical science is applicable everywhere. It doesn't matter whether one is a Christian or Hindu or Muslim. Similarly, Bhagavad-gītā is the science of religion, science of God. So if you take this book seriously, and try to spread this knowledge among your countrymen, I think you'll be very much benefited.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Anyway he has admitted, "I do not know." That is sufficient defeat for him. But they are shameless. In spite of being defeated, they won't admit that "I am defeated." Not gentlemen. Formerly between two learned scholars there will be argument. If one is defeated... Just like Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya. As soon as he became defeated, he became His disciple. That's all. That was the system. Not that we go on arguing for hours, and one is defeated; still, he remains the same. No. If you are defeated, then you must accept the other party as your master. That was the system. As soon as he said that I do not know, he should have become your disciple. That is the system. "If you do not know why you have come to teach me."
Prabhupāda: No, here, or India, or everywhere.
Dr. Inger: Yes. Nobody is...
Prabhupāda: So that means people have become so dull in spite of so-called education.
Dr. Inger: That is true.
Prabhupāda: That's, that's my point.
Dr. Inger: Oh yes. Education is merely book knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Mūḍhā.
Dr. Inger: ...of substance given, read, prepared.
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Devotee: What shall we say to someone, Prabhupāda...
Prabhupāda: Otherwise, if you are doing stereotyping, then in spite of your father being cruel, you would not declare independence and go away from home. Because you have got this independence, therefore you can understand that: "Why shall I obey this father? I go out." That is independence. They do not understand the meaning of independence.
Haṁsadūta: Because they've lost their independence.
Prabhupāda: Hmmm?
Haṁsadūta: Because they've lost their independence.
Prabhupāda: That is his misfortune. But in spite of his misfortune, because he was practiced to chant the name of Rāma, he was pious. Although he was ignorant. He was absorbed in thought of politics. He should have, if he would have understood that Rāma is a fact, Kṛṣṇa is a fact... That he did not understand. Then he would have preached the glories of Rāma, glories of Kṛṣṇa. He took the chanting of Rāma for his political purposes. He utilized for political purpose. Just like... That is nāma-aparādha. Samaḥ śubha-kriyā mati pramāṇaḥ (?). He was trying to get some material profit by chanting the holy name of Rāma. That he got, material profit. He was the most famous politician, all over the world.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) Bhāgavata verse, janmādy asya (SB 1.1.1), asya janmādi (indistinct) concise word but volumes of meanings. Volumes. Each word is like that. Vidyā bhāgavata-vali(?). Therefore one's learning is complete when he reads Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Otherwise he remains imperfect, in spite of all learning. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), from where? Now the creation of this cosmic world, from where? But you do not know from where. This is explained in Bhāgavatam. Paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi. That is actually true. In this way simply if you analyze one verse, you'll find each word is full of volumes of meaning. Janmādy asya yataḥ, anvayāt (SB 1.1.1). Like the creation, anvayāt, directly and indirectly, itarataś cārtheṣu, in the matter of understanding, abhijñaḥ. Abhijñaḥ means completely cognizant. That is the Absolute Truth. He knows everything—how this universe is created, how it is maintained, how it annihilated, directly and indirectly.
Prabhupāda: What is that idea? I do not follow.
Acyutānanda: The girl embarrassed the sister by saying that "You say that we shouldn't harm these insects, but you eat meat." So the sister didn't say anything, but on the girl's examinations and during her classes the sister gave her failing marks, in spite of her, to cut down her outspokenness.
Prabhupāda: Failing marks? Means less...?
Acyutānanda: Yes, she failed her in the class.
Kīrtanānanda: Because she asked, "Why do you eat meat?"
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Prabhupāda: Śocati means in everything he laments. "Hai hai, I have lost so much things, I have not these things, I have not that thing." So at the present moment, all the people, they are so dissatisfied that they are all śūdras. Śūdra is always in want. So who is not, at the present moment, not in want? Everybody's in want. Therefore everybody is a śūdra now. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. And that is his qualification, always feeling in want, śocati. And his work is to serve others, master. A brāhmaṇa will not work under anybody. A kṣatriya will not work under anybody. Nowadays the industrial development has taken place because people are śūdras. They want some service. So-called technologists and laborers, and everything. Everyone is searching after good job. He cannot live independently, just like a dog. A dog cannot live independently. He must have a master. Then he is happy. Is it not? Otherwise it is street dog. So modern education is that they are creating śūdras, to become dependent on others. And therefore modern economic development is taking place because there are so many people, they are prepared to give them service. Suppose in your bank, if you withdraw from the service, the bank will stop. Industry will stop. So because there is no such division as brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. Everyone is śūdra. Therefore this economic development, so-called economic development, has become possible. But in spite of all this economic development, because people are śūdras, they cannot be happy. Because śocati, they will lament, strike. Even they are getting thousands of rupees, strike. Even they get five hundred thousands of rupees, still there will be strike. Because they are śūdras.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino... How subtle laws are working, what do they know the scientists? Therefore their so-called knowledge is māyayā apahṛta-jñānāḥ, actual knowledge is taken away by māyā. And they are thinking, "I am very learned man, scholar." But actual knowledge is taken away. māyayā apahṛta-jñānāḥ. Why? Āsuri-bhāva. They won't accept God. Therefore they are all fools. In spite of all these degrees, they are all fools. Therefore they cannot explain everything very nicely. "In future we shall see."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are saying that "We are beginning to learn more and more..."
Devotee (2): But the scientists...
Prabhupāda: But these rascals, even though are suffering three kinds of pains, tri-tāpa-yatna. Just like why you are covered? Because there is pain. Severe cold, similarly severe heat. So we are suffering, either summer season or winter season. We are suffering, tri-tāpa-yatna. There is suffering from our mind, from our body—this is natural suffering. There is bodily suffering, mental suffering, then suffering caused by other living entities. So we are always suffering. But still they're thinking that "We are happy." The disease is already there. Ah? Just like the Arabian do not want to give you petrol. That means there's suffering caused by other nations. So this is going on. They're simply trying to settle up. But the suffering is there. But they're not in their knowledge, that in spite of all their endeavors, the sufferings are there. What is the cause? Then whom shall I go to ask why the suffering is there? Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum (MU 1.2.12). Therefore you must approach a person who knows how the suffering should be mitigated.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Control the process. They cannot control. They are trying to control to minimize population, but the record is that every minute there is three men increasing. Every minute. The population increasing. It is not diminishing. In spite of their so many contraceptive methods, killing, abortion, the population is increasing. You cannot stop it.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They'll say... They give the credit to the medical science. They say...
Prabhupāda: Oh, what is that credit?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Medical science has advanced so much that now people are...
Prabhupāda: Medical science has given the chance of committing sinful activities. That's all. And the medical man and the man who is committing such sinful activities, they will suffer. This is the advantage of their so-called medical science. They do not know. They have, they have sanctioned this abortion, medical science. Means they have given chance to commit sinful activities. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But medical man also does not understand what is that thing missing which makes this body dead. And still, he is placing himself as authority, as scientific man, and people are accepting. That is demonism. He cannot explain. A man is dying. He is applying his scientific processes, what is called that gas, oxygen gas, and other injection, and in spite of doing all these things, he finds at a moment that the man is dead. And when you ask him that "In spite of your all scientific appliances, why the man is dead?" And still, he has become authority, such foolish man that this man cannot explain that in spite of all his efforts, scientifically, a man is dead. Now what he will answer? He has seen his all kinds of scientific appliances and applied but the man is dead. Now let him explain why the man is dead. Can he explain?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, as soon as I condition, I create an environment which is material. Therefore these so-called scientists, they have no eyes to see the spirit. They take this material condition as the cause of the spirit. And then again, when they find that in spite of presence of these chemicals, the life is not there, they are bewildered. They say, "Yes, we are trying to improve." Therefore they do not find the cells in the dead body.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say the cells are also dead in a dead body.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, they do not find it. Cells may be dead or they do not find the cells, whatever it may be, but it was dependent on the life. (break) ...with my so many servants. When I die, the servants also go away. So you cannot say that "He was living because the servants were there." You cannot say.
Prabhupāda: No, that he is rascal. No Indian is dying. We are going three times, four times India. Who is dying? Everyone is dying natural death. This is all propaganda, to make their position secure. That's all. I have never seen anyone dying for starvation. I have pointed out so many times that fifty years ago this class of men lying on the footpath... Now the foodgrains has risen price fifty times. Still he is living. Still he is living. But he has to live in that condition. Although he must have increased his income, otherwise how he is purchasing foodstuff, fifty times? But in spite of his increasing income, he must live like that. Apart from India. Why, in your country or in Europe, so many hippies are lying? Why? They have no want.
Karandhara: But not as many.
Prabhupāda: Nobody wants to die.
Girirāja: If the soul is not eternal, where has that desire...
Prabhupāda: No. This is eternity. This is practical eternity. You have changed so many times your body, but you are the same person. Therefore you are eternal, in spite of changing body. This is simple argument.
Prajāpati: I used that argument once, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and the scientists said to me, "It is the chromosomes, the tiny chromosomes that do that change."
Prabhupāda: That is their jugglery of words, these rascals. (laughter) "Chromosome, promosome." He will manufacture some word. But where is your chromosome of child body? What is that child body? Where it has gone? If you know, "chromosome, promosome," where has your child's body gone? That is the difficulty. These rascals, they do not know anything. Still, they are teachers and manufacture some jugglery of words. That's all. That is the difficulty. "Chromosome." What is that chromosome? What does it mean, chromosome?
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: 1967, yes.
Dr. Kapoor: So it was after the heart attack that you came here?
Prabhupāda: Yes. At that time. Then there was repeated letters, come back, come back. So I returned in 1968. So, in spite of heart weakness, I worked. I suffered that weakness continually for one year.
Dr. Kapoor: Naturally, naturally.
Prabhupāda: Then I was taking Kavirāja's medicine. I took it from here, that Yogendranātha. That gave me good strength, and massage the body. Not taking bath in cold water. In this way, somehow or other, still going on.
Dr. Kapoor: Now I think you would be more useful if you took more rest, spend as little as what Hare Kṛṣṇa...
Puṣṭa-Kṛṣṇa: Just like Dhṛtarāṣṭra. Still they are told that Kṛṣṇa is God, and they still do not heed the warning.
Prabhupāda: Let them accept at least like Dhṛtarāṣṭra. That is also good. Therefore Dhṛtarāṣṭra was saved at the end, in spite of so many things. By the help of Vidura, he left home and became successful, because he believed in Kṛṣṇa, that "Kṛṣṇa is God, yes. But I cannot control myself." He admitted his deficiency. Therefore he was liberated. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Because he admitted Kṛṣṇa is God, therefore at the end he was liberated. Mahato bhayāt.
Bhāgavata: But Duryodhana would not admit.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prabhupāda: You should be trained up.
Dr. Patel: Woman is the embodiment of māyā.
Prabhupāda: Vikāra... In spite of woman, you'll not be agitated. That training required.
Dr. Patel: You... Now, now, that training is very difficult to get. I am very sorry to say that.
Prabhupāda: No, no. No, no. That training is there. We are, we are training in that way.
Dr. Patel: You must, you must have, I mean, a sort of a... You see, between the object and indriyas...
Prabhupāda: Then why you said...? Don't you see...?
Dr. Patel: Listen, you are arguing in such a way that there will be a flash between us two.
Prabhupāda: No, no. People should be trained up in such a way that in spite of (indistinct) you should not be agitated. That is, that is.
Guest (1): Our religion... (break) and that these boys... (break)
Dr. Patel: Sādhus, not sannyāsīs. (break)
Prabhupāda: In European countries, in European countries, if you restrict in that way, that will be fanaticism.
Guest (1): That is what I am telling you. It should not be done immediately like that. (break) ...it must be trained, and it will take a long time.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Dr. Patel: Niḥspṛha-cetanaṁ jagat...
Guest (1): No, those have controlled their sex intercourse are...
Prabhupāda: No. Siddhas means in spite of agitation, he's not agitated. That is siddha. That is siddha.
Dr. Patel: But in spite of agitation of their wives, they are not agitated.
Prabhupāda: It is simply forceful negation.
Dr. Patel: But in spite of their wives' agitation, they are not agitated.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that... No, you are calling them siddhas. Therefore I am telling you. Then impotents are siddhas.
Dr. Patel: Then what should we call them?
Prabhupāda: Nivṛttis tu mahā-phalām. Here, at the present moment... Not at the present moment, always in the material world, the desire is that "I shall become the greatest enjoyer. I shall become king, I shall become minister... And at last I shall become God." (laughter) You see? So this the false pravṛtti. And one who can cut down this rascal propensity, he's successful. But I'm neither king, neither a minister, neither I'm going to become God. I'm a tiny living entity, being kicked by the māyā, like football. When he comes to this understanding, he is in knowledge.
Indian man (4): (Sanskrit)
Prabhupāda: Yes. But he is so shameless than in spite of being kicked like that, always, he's thinking, "I'm God, I'm independent, I can do anything," like that. This is asura. Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. Ah?
Prabhupāda: ...may be callous. Just like some, somebody was asking me... That rascal Bharati's article. Who? That one Australian sannyāsī. So this rascal may speak something, but we cannot stop our movement. You see? Our movement is increasing, all over the world in, in spite of all criticism. We don't care for that. Because we know that we are following the footsteps of predecessor ācārya, that's all right. We don't mind. And actually, it is happening. Otherwise, within six, seven years, so much progress could not be possible. (break) What is the word, exact?
Chandobhai and Dr. Patel: Ārambha! Ārambha. Ārambha.
Prabhupāda: Ārambha.
Chandobhai: Ārambha. (quotes Sanskrit verse that ends arambha parityagi) (break)
Prabhupāda: ...its another meaning is "beginning."
Prabhupāda: Lord Śiva is Lord Śiva. He is very powerful demigod. He can give. He has got the power. But in spite of being favored by Lord Śiva, in spite of his becoming the great devotee of Lord Śiva, why he is described as rākṣasa? That is the point. So therefore if I say Rāvaṇa a rākṣasa, according to the śāstra, another devotee may be angry. So what can I do? It is stated in the śāstra, rākṣasa. Similarly, in the śāstra it is stated that na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ: "If one is not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa he is duṣkṛtina, the most sinful, mūḍhā, rascal, naradhāma, lowest of the mankind, māyayā apahṛta-jñāna." These things are there. But if we quote the śāstra, that "This man has not surrendered to the Supreme Lord; therefore he is a rascal," then what is wrong with us? It may be very strong words, but it is stated in the śāstra. Just like about Rāvaṇa, it is stated that he is a rākṣasa. So it may be very insulting and strong words, but this is the statement of the śāstra. And if one quotes from the śāstra, what is wrong on his part?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhāva is the previous condition of prema. (break) ...life there are so many varieties, temperature and focus of light, but actually, the heat and light is coming from the fire. So in spite of all varieties of degrees of heat and light, it is one because it is the energy of Kṛṣṇa. (break) Because original is taken away and he has to satisfy their mother, other the mothers will cry, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa, my boy went with you. Where he is?"
Dr. Patel: Boys and cows and calves and all...
Prabhupāda: Yes, everything. This is Kṛṣṇa. (break) They are Śyāmasundara, but they are playing a different part in the face of their parents.
Dr. Patel: You are the old man with the (indistinct) this and you are the young boy and you are the... (break)
Prabhupāda: This human life is especially meant for solving all the problems of live. There are so many problems of life, but the four problems, as indicated in the Bhagavad-gītā, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam... (BG 13.9). People have no knowledge how to stop birth, death, old age and disease. Because every living entity is eternal. That we learn from Bhagavad-gītā. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The living entity does not die even after the annihilation of this gross body. This is the first knowledge to understand. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to transmigrate from this body to another body. As I have transmigrated already from my childhood body to boyhood body, boyhood body to youth-hood body, now I am in a body very old, so similarly, as I am existing in spite of changing so many types of body, similarly, after changing this body, I will have to accept another body. This is the fact. But the modern education, they do not know it, neither they believe, even the practical example is there. And who is giving the example? The most authoritative Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. And there are so many different varieties of bodies.
Prabhupāda: Yes, name, must be there. But name... Just like you are feeling as Irishman, but your name may be different from another Irishman. How do you feel that "We are all Irishmen"? The name may be different. That doesn't matter. But the quality can be one. That is required. So when acquires that quality, Kṛṣṇaite quality, that in spite of different names... That is called so 'ham. One feels... The same example: In a nation, in a group, the names may be different, but because they feel nationally or religiously one, so that is one. Varieties. Varieties may be different, but the object being one, that is oneness. What is that, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā?
Prabhupāda: At the present moment there is all over the world... We are touring all over the world. It is very hard to find out ideal class of men. That is the defect. In the Vedic culture the ideal class of men were the brāhmaṇas. Their qualification was: truthful, self-controlled, mind and the senses, and then tolerant, very simple life, full of knowledge, practical application of knowledge in life and full faith in God. These are ideal character. But such men are not available at the present moment. So therefore the social idealism is defective. Just like in your body, there are four divisions. The head, the arm, the belly and the leg. If the head is spoiled then you are a madman. In spite of possessing hands and bellies and legs, you cannot work properly. So at the present moment the heads are spoiled. Therefore the whole world is in chaotic condition. People, advanced in education, still they are inimical, one man to another. If you are passing on in the street, the gentleman's house there is a signboard, "Beware of the dogs. Don't come in," because he cannot believe anyone. You go to the airport, any high-class standard man. They search out the pocket. So nobody is believable. So this is the result of modern education. You cannot find out an ideal character man.
Prabhupāda: As long as they will not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they have to tolerate. They must suffer. That is nature's law. That is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā... (BG 7.14). You cannot escape all these miserable conditions of... Mām eva ye prapadyante. If you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you escape. What is difficulty to become Kṛṣṇa conscious? Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: (BG 18.65) "Simply always think of Me." We have got nice Kṛṣṇa. And attend the temple, and we see. And what is the difficulty to think of Him always? Or chanting, hearing His name. So there is no difficulty in remembering Kṛṣṇa always. Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. To become devotee, worship the Lord in the temple, prepare food for Him, and take the prasādam—where is the difficulty? The program which we have introduced, where is the difficulty there? But the rascals will not take. That is the difficulty. They will become hippies, but they will not become devotees. Although a better position. This is their misfortune. Duṣkṛtina, misfortune. In spite of the things being so easy to perform, they will not take to it, on account of misfortune. Duṣkṛtina.
Prabhupāda: No, why the hippies are lying on the street or in the park? Why? You give them relief. The whole Amsterdam city is full of hippies lying on the street and park. What you are doing for them? They are not poor men. They have got enough to eat. Their parents, father, grandfather, they can give. Why they are lying? What you can do? Go and pick them up. Make them nicely living. Why don't you do that? Talking nonsense. What is their answer? Why they have become hippies? They are not... The Indians may be poverty-stricken, but they are not poverty-stricken. In England the whole British empire is there. The whole American government is there. And still, western countries, they have got resources. They have means. They are not poor. Why your sons and grandsons are lying on the street? What is their answer? They are making plan that everyone would live materially very comfortably, but why these people, in spite of possessing material facilities... (break) Yes, this is the real problem.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That they have got experience. Therefore daily they are founding so many parties, manufacturing so many means and plans and this and that, but they are not happy. But they are so fool, great fool, that in spite of being repeatedly baffled, still, punaḥ punaś carv..., the same thing, under different form. What is the difference between these rascal communists and capitalists? After all, they are animals. How they can make things, better arrangement? That is not possible. The only thing... This man will say, "Exploit others," and other man shall, "Give food to the others." What is there? Give food to the others or exploit—the same animal propensity. Where is the advancement? The capitalists are thinking, "Exploit others." The same thing, like animals. This dog, as soon as he saw the shadow of his own body with the food, he thought that "Let me capture that food." This is exploitation. And another will say "No, first of all give food." So they are fighting like this.
Prabhupāda: No, this is the..., that you do it. If they do not do it, then who will come? This declaration is there, that "If you do this, then you can be interested." But if you do not, then you go on with your own business. A similar... The same things Kṛṣṇa, sarva-dharmān parit... mām ekam. Kṛṣṇa is demanding that you do it, "Surrender unto Me." The śāstra also says, "Surrender unto the representative of Kṛṣṇa," mahīyasām. But if they do not do, what can be done? Just see this sparrow. The sex is always accompanying, any time ready. The pigeons, any time ready. Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. That is the only attachment for this material world, viṣaya. Whole world is fighting for this viṣaya. "I must have nice eating, I must have nice sleeping, I must have very good sex, and I should be defended by bank balance, by military soldiers, by police force, by atomic weapons." This is going on. Defense. Rascal does not understand that "In spite of all these things, I will have to change the body, and the same thing will be available again, in a different way." This intoxication, cigarettes. The ant, the small ant, they are very fond of intoxication.
Prabhupāda: That is not your decision. Daiva-netreṇa, the superior decision. Just in office, you get promotion or degradation. That is not your decision. That is the decision of the higher directors. You cannot say that "No, no, I am not going to accept this post." No. You have to accept. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22). These different types of birth are due to your association with different types of the modes of material nature. Otherwise, why there are so many varieties. One has become crow, one has become sparrow, one has become human being, one has become dog, one has become cat, one has become tree, one has become grass. But nature is so expert that in spite of different varieties of life, the nature assembles them in such a nice way that it looks beautiful. There is grass, there is tree, there is sparrow, there is human being, but arrangement is such nice that everything... (end)
Prabhupāda: My original point was that if we take simply care of the fourth-class division of the society, do not take care of the first-class division of the society, then, in spite of taking care of the fourth-class society, it will not grow very nicely. Because the brain is not in order.
C. Hennis: Yes. I think that in fact my organization is really intimately concerned...
Prabhupāda: That was my point, that you are taking of the laborer class. That is just like the legs.
C. Hennis: Well "labor," in fact means any kind of work, any kind of activity, any kind of occupational activity.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are rascals. He is controlled in every step, and he is thinking... Therefore rascals. In spite of this big, big house, nice road and good car, they are rascals. But he thinks falsely. He thinks that he is independent; He will not die. Then why does he think like that, like a foolish man? As soon as māyā kicks on his face, he will die. That's all. Immediately. "I have got some business, sir." "No, no, you must die immediately." And still, he thinks that he is not controlled. What is this nonsense? We shall go that side? That is knowledge, that "In spite of my all so-called advancement of civilization, I am controlled." That is knowledge. That is the beginning of knowledge. Then he should think how to get out of it. That is intelligence. And if, like cats and dogs, he thinks that "I am not controlled," then he is no better than cats and dogs. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27).
Prabhupāda: No, no. I am... A man grows old, can you stop it?
Robert Gouiran: I can't stop time, of course.
Prabhupāda: That is... We are speaking, that you cannot do anything. Even in spite of your so-called health (indistinct) or old, you cannot stop it.
Robert Gouiran: So you don't think that somebody could be an instrument to help other?
Prabhupāda: What is that instrument if this instrument is blunt or what is the use of that instrument? Simply possessing one instrument is sufficient? It must work, but if it does not work? You cannot stop death, you cannot stop birth, you cannot stop old age, you cannot stop disease.
Prabhupāda: I don't say fool, there will be intelligent, but they cannot heal. If you see they cannot heal, still they are very nice, that is your business. We say that he cannot heal. If you say that in spite of his being unable to heal, still he's intelligent, that is your business. I say that he cannot heal. What do you think?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: You cannot heal, you cannot stop death.
Prabhupāda: Yes, you cannot heal. How you can say that you can stop old age, you can heal disease? How you can say? You cannot... You can't stop death, you can't stop birth. You cannot do this.
Robert Gouiran: But when somebody has fall down, you can help him to stand.
Prabhupāda: I don't say that. Why do you take in a different way? I say you cannot heal.
Robert Gouiran: Cannot heal.
Prabhupāda: Now in spite of this fact, if you try to do it, (it's) your business. But I say you cannot heal. If you want to go on, in spite of your inability to heal, that is your business, but I say I challenge that you cannot heal. That is my proposition. Now you go on with your business, that in spite of being unable to heal, if you go on healing activities, you go on. Who takes you? But I say you cannot heal. You are other (indistinct). Nobody can heal. What is that? Is that all right?
Yogeśvara: It's very strong.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is a fact.
Prabhupāda: Read the purport.
Satsvarūpa: The Lord is the creator of everything. Everything is born of Him, everything is sustained by Him, and everything, after annihilation, rests in Him. He is therefore the creator of the four divisions of the social order, beginning with the intelligent class of men, technically called brāhmaṇas due to their being situated in the mode of goodness. Next is the administrative class, technically called the kṣatriyas due to their being situated in the mode of passion. The mercantile men, called the vaiśyas, are situated in the mixed modes of passion and ignorance, and the śūdras, or laborer class, are situated in the ignorant mode of material nature. In spite of His creating the four divisions of human society, Lord Kṛṣṇa does not belong to any of these divisions, because He is not one of the conditioned souls, a section of whom form human society.
Prabhupāda: That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that "One who is killer of animal, he cannot understand the spiritual science." Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). This is the statement. Paśughna means the animal killer. Therefore the first prohibition is stop this animal killing. Otherwise, this dull brain will not be able to understand. They are not fit for understanding. Mūḍha, mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). Duṣkṛtina means always engaged in sinful activities. They have got brain but their brain is being utilized only for sinful activities, they are called duṣkṛtina. Kṛtī, kṛtī means good brain, and duṣkṛtī means brain is being utilized for sinful act. Therefore they are mūḍha. In spite of good brain, they are rascals, because brain is being utilized for sinful activities, how to set up up-to-date machinery for killing animals. Brain is being used for this purpose.
Prabhupāda: Purport.
Satsvarūpa: In the proper discharge of duty, one has to learn to tolerate nonpermanent appearances and disappearances of happiness and distress. According to Vedic injunction, one has to take his bath early in the morning even during the month of Māgha (January-February). It is very cold at that time, but in spite of that a man who abides by the religious principles does not hesitate to take his bath. Similarly, a woman does not hesitate to cook in the kitchen in the months of May and June, the hottest part of the summer season. One has to execute his duty in spite of climatic inconveniences. Similarly, to fight is the religious principle of the kṣatriyas, and although one has to fight with some friend or relative, one should not deviate from his prescribed duty. One has to follow the prescribed rules and regulations of religious principles in order to rise up to the platform of knowledge because by knowledge and devotion only can one liberate himself from the clutches of māyā (illusion).
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Bali Mardana: Perhaps they were also paid off to stop it.
Prabhupāda: Paid off or not paid off, it doesn't matter. But actually it is stopped. And if we simply cede, then there is no future hope of this movement. Better, in spite of their "No" order, we shall take the...
Bali Mardana: Take the ratha there.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bahulāśva: Take it anyway?
Prabhupāda: Yes. And let them be arrested. That is the real thing.
Bali Mardana: That is better.
Prabhupāda: So you go all there, and perform this.
Prabhupāda: So we have no responsibility. It is false, māyā. Our only responsibility is how to become obedient servant of Kṛṣṇa. So that is only responsibility, one responsibility. Just like the political parties, they are advertising, different political party, "I am your friend. Give me vote." How he can be friend? Just like in America, the Nixon took vote, he was advertising "America requires Nixon." I have seen that advertised when he was being elected. But after some time, the people found that he is not required, "Get out." So nobody can become, because everyone is imperfect. How one can become friend or responsible for another person? Just like in your country, in Europe and America, so many hippies are there. Their parents are responsible, rich men, able men, but why they have become hippies? Is it not a fact? The father does not want that his son should become a hippie, but still he is becoming hippie. Where is his responsibility? You cannot give protection to your son. In spite of your desire, you are disappointed. So where is your responsibility? Who can answer? Where is your responsibility? You don't really like that your son should become a hippie, but you cannot protect him.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: But one law... When he was president, he was powerful than the government. When he resigned from the presidency, then he became less important. This is a crude example. The another example is that the sunshine is universally spread, and the sun globe is situated in one place. So which is important, the sun globe or the sunshine? And just like this light is situated in one place and the illumination is spread. So what is important, the illumination or the lamp? The fire is one place, and the fire light and heat is expanded, so the fire is localized, and the light and heat is expanded many miles. So which is important, the fire or the heat and light? Therefore, God is person, but He is not a person like you and me. But His personality is expanded just like the heat and light of the fire is expanded. Similarly, whatever we see, that is the expansion of God's energy. Just like there are many big businessman. The man is person, but he is conducting hundreds of factories, big, big area. The factories are important or the man is important? If an ordinary person in this material world becomes so important and personal, you can just imagine how the person of God is important in spite of unlimited expansion of this material world. So what is his idea?
Prabhupāda: That is this. Therefore I am particle; He is whole. Therefore difference. When God says, "I am," and I say, "I am," there is difference. I am particle "I am," and He is whole "I am." (laughter) Another, a millionaire says, "I am," and his servant says, "I am," but both the "I's" are same? So God is great. He says, "I am." He is great "I am." And I say, "I am." I am small "I am." Therefore this "I am" and that "I am" is different. This "I am," when I say, "I am," and God says, "I am," this "I am" and this "I am" is different. So not always I am the same. So far I am concerned, my identity, your identity is concerned, that is all right, one. But you "I am" and I "I am" not, different. The soul as soul, it is all right. But as particle, as whole, they are different. Yes, that is to be understood. God says, "I am," means "I am the whole." And I say, "I am"—"I am the particle." So therefore we should understand that when I say, "I am," and God says, "I am," they are different. (break) Your consciousness, your identification, my identification, my consciousness is different. And because we are different, therefore we are considering what is the ultimate goal. So in spite of difference, you can say "I am," I can say, "I am," He can say, "I am," but that does not mean there is no difference.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He has no value. I have seen one doctor of chemistry—he could not get any service—in Allahabad. His name was Raghunātha Mitri(?), Dr. Raghunātha Mitri. So he was living at the cost of his father-in-law and making some soap and going to the shop for selling, doctor. That means he could not get any service. Now his independence was to manufacture some soap as ordinary man is doing. But he was chemist; he could not do anything. He could manufacture some soap. So in spite of high education, because he could not get a good job, he had no value. Just like the dogs. The dogs, if they do not get a master, nice, then street dog. He is lean and thin and no shelter, no...
Guest (1): That is what is happening...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The real service is... Suppose you open hospital. You can cure for the time being some disease, but can you give me, can you give him any assurance that he will not die? Can you protect him from death? In spite of your all big, big hospitals, can you protect humanity from death, from birth, from old age, from disease? Can you?
Reporter: Physically, of course not, only spiritually.
Prabhupāda: Ah. That we are giving. That we are giving you, that no more death, no more birth, no more old age, and no more disease.
Reporter: But couldn't your disciples perform all the wonderful things that you have them do and at the same time provide outer material service?
Prabhupāda: The financial means what they have collected, what they have spent.
Jayatīrtha: Right.
Prabhupāda: And general reporting: "Yes, everyone is chanting," or "He is not chanting in spite of warning," like that.
Jayatīrtha: Yes.
Prabhupāda: This is very good.
Jayatīrtha: So we have some guidelines in here about that. So, so should I go on with this?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Prabhupāda: Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ, sa sannyāsī (BG 6.1). Anāśritaḥ kar... Everyone is expecting some good result for his sense gratification. That is āśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ. He has taken the shelter of good result. But one who does not take shelter of the result of activities... It is my duty. Karyam. Karyam means "It is my duty. Doesn't matter what is the result. I must do it sincerely to my best capacity. Then I don't care for the result. Result is in Kṛṣṇa's hand." Karyam: "It is my duty. My Guru Mahārāja said it, so it is my duty. It doesn't matter whether it is successful or not successful. That depends on Kṛṣṇa." In this way, anyone, if he works, then he is a sannyāsī. Not the dress, but the attitude of working. Yes, that is sannyāsa. Karyam: "It is my duty." Sa sannyāsī ca yogī ca. He is yogi, first-class yogi. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna officially, he did not take sannyāsa. He was a gṛhastha, soldier. But when he took it very seriously, karyam—"Kṛṣṇa wants this fight. Never mind I have to kill my relatives. I must do it"—that is sannyāsa. First of all he argued with Kṛṣṇa that "This kind of fighting is not good, family killing...," and so on, so on, so on. He argued. But after hearing Bhagavad-gītā, when he understood that "It is my duty. Kṛṣṇa wants me to do it." Karyam. So in spite of his becoming a householder, a soldier, he's a sannyāsī. He took it-karyam. Karyam means "It is my duty." That is real sannyāsa. "Kṛṣṇa wants that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement must be spread.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore those who are in high standard, they do not take anything as wrong. Everyone is suffering his own reaction. Then bhaktas, they think, tat te 'nukampāṁ susamīkṣamāṇo bhuñjāna evātma-kṛtaṁ vipākam (SB 10.14.8). When a devotee is in trouble, he thinks that "I am suffering for my past deeds. (break) ...me." That is a devotee's attitude. "Let me do my business, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." And then he is sure. Such person is assured to come back. He doesn't care for all this suffering. He thinks, "I am suffering for my past deeds. That's all. Why shall I bother myself? Let me do my present duty, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa." That is the first-class position. He is assured. In spite of all material difficulties, if he goes on with chanting, then his chance is first. That is stated. Dāya-bhāk. Dāya-bhāk means he inherits God's property as the son's inherits the father's property. Dāya-bhāk. So we should be callous with all these political, social... We should simply go on. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He was callous. Family affairs, wife's responsibility, for mother's responsibility for... Nothing. Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31).
Prabhupāda: That's it. They are thinking, "I am doing my duty," but they do not gain anything. And a person doesn't care for any responsibility; he comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He gains something. Even if he falls down in immature stage, he gains something. But other man, he is doing his duty very nicely, but he is gaining nothing. You should read the purport.
Paramahaṁsa: "As far as the duties of mankind are concerned, there are innumerable duties. Every man is duty-bound not only to his parents, family members, society, country, humanity, other living beings, the demigods, etc., but also to the great philosophers, poets, scientists, etc. It is enjoined in the scriptures that one can relinquish all such duties and surrender unto the service of the Lord. So if one does so and becomes successful in the discharge of his devotional service unto the Lord, it is well and good. But it so happens sometimes that one surrenders himself unto the service of the Lord by some temporary sentiment, and in the long run, due to so many other reasons, he falls down from the path of service by undesirable association. There are so many instances of this in the histories. Bharata Mahārāja was obliged to take his birth as a stag due to his intimate attachment to a stag. He thought of this stag when he died. As such, in the next birth he became a stag, although he did not forget the incidents of his previous birth. Similarly, Citraketu also fell down due to his offenses at the feet of Śiva. But in spite of all this, the stress is given here to surrendering unto the lotus feet of the Lord, even if there is a chance of falling down, because even though one falls down from the prescribed duties of devotional service, he will never forget the lotus feet of the Lord.
Prabhupāda: It requires elucidation. "Complete whole" means, just like your body is complete whole, and there are so many other things, there are so many holes in the body, there are so many hairs on the body, there are so many hairs on the head, so many fingers, eyes, ears—so many things—but the body is a complete unit, working as a complete machine. And there are so many things. Similarly, the whole cosmos is complete, exactly like this body is a machine. Similarly the whole cosmos is a big machine. It is complete. One sun is there and keeping everything complete. The day and night, the seasonal changes, the equator, the temperature, the moonlight, the other planets, we living beings, the vegetables—everything is complete by God. And because the sun is there. Similarly, this body, machine, is complete. And the soul is there, it is working nicely. The body is also a creation, and the universe is also a creation, and the brain which has created these things, He is complete. Therefore He has created these complete units. That is the idea. Pūrṇam idaṁ (Iso Invocation). Pūrṇaḥ means complete. And because He is complete, the Creator, He has no defect; therefore He can create everything complete. Pūrṇam idaṁ, pūrṇam adaḥ, pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate. And He is so complete that pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya, from the complete, if you take the whole complete, still He is complete. Here is a glass of water; I am drinking. Drinking part by part. And when it is finished, the water is finished, no more complete. But He is so complete, that just like the sun, the temperature is being distributed for million and millions of years, still it is full of temperature. Here, unless the electric power is there, it is not complete. But there is power in the sunshine. It is a reservoir of so much temperature and light, that in history millions and millions of years it is distributing, the seasonal changes are going on, the green foliage is coming again, the snow and rain is coming, so many things are going on account of temperature. Any machine is rolling, just like as soon as there is power the machine is rolling. In all machines, your bodily machine, my bodily machine, and electric machines and other powered machines—everything is going on. Pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate. And in spite of taking so much energy from the sun, it is still full of light and energy.
Prabhupāda: (break) How they will serve? The proposal...(break) that how... (break) ...they have disco... (break) They have discovered so many machine, so many factories, so many... So how they will relieve the mankind? This proposal Vivekananda used, to serve the mankind. How they will serve? In spite of all arrangement there are so many suffering humanity, so many unemployment, so much disease, so much death. So what is the meaning of this serving? Huh? You cannot stop it. That is the nature's way. How you can stop by so-called bluffing that "We are serving the humanity"? You are opening hospital. Does it mean that the suffering is reduced? Because the suffering has increased therefore your number of hospitals have increased. Where is the mitigation? Nature's way, we are feeling pain, this cold wind. Who can stop it? And where is the question of decreasing human's suffering or stopping?
Prabhupāda: Hm. It is a good idea.
Yogi Bhajan: And in spite of the fact nothing may happen...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Yogi Bhajan: Something will happen.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Yogi Bhajan: At least, people will know you, people will have met you, people who have never met you, that way. So whosoever come will come with God will, and whosoever will do something will do something with God will. And we will enjoy the experience to be the host, and that I think is our karma. We must pay that.
Prabhupāda: No, the thing is that is if we want to do something substantial, we must come on a common platform. That common platform is already there. Every line of Bhagavad-gītā is so nice...
Prabhupāda: They are very expert in wasting. (laughter)
Yogi Bhajan: Yeah, that I have seen. That is totally what annoys me sometime and then I go and "Well, say you have to learn this way. It doesn't matter." Now, the Mexico marble has a flower arranged in it. Everybody has two eyes, and that flower arrange can be arranged, and none of your persons, in spite of my... One day I yelled at them and say, "I am going to pull your out of your this little hair, and what are you doing, waste of time?" They said, "Well, we have to ask some mahātmā, some ācārya. Someone will tell him the message." I went again next day. They did it exactly what was wrong. But you know, they are kids. They will learn. So I go and poke my nose all the time because I thought if I can tell them, they will do it better. But my basic situation is we are doing...
Prabhupāda: The Americans, they have no value for their money.
Yogi Bhajan: No, no, nothing.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa created these four division, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, but He does not belong to any one of them. He is neither brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya nor vaiśya nor śūdra. He is transcendental. Similarly, our philosophy—just to make the human society very peaceful and making progress we wish to establish this system. A first-class man, group of men, brāhmaṇas, they will guide the kṣatriyas, and the kṣatriyas, the administrators, they will guide the vaiśya. Vaiśya means agriculture and cow protection and trade. And śūdra means those who are neither brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya nor vaiśyas. They are simply worker, assistant. So there must be division like this. The brāhmaṇas should guide the kṣatriyas, and the kṣatriyas will administer the state, and the vaiśyas will produce foodstuff, and śūdras will help. Cooperation for common benefit. But the aim is spiritual realization. That is perfect society. If everyone is śūdra, without any aim of life, then there will be chaos. Just like in your country, in spite of so much facility for education, the students are produced hippies, useless for all purposes. Why? I have gone to so many universities. I have seen the students, hippies.
Prabhupāda: That's it. They do not consider this body as machine. In spite of all education, they are thinking that there is no other element than this machine. And actually, they are finding that big, nice machine, computer, without an operator, it does not work. And this huge machine is working without any spiritual touch? Just see how foolishness. They think automatically working. Nature is working automatically. Do they not think?
John Mize: They think there's a mind, but not a soul.
Prabhupāda: No, that's all right. Something is there which is working. Now that may be mistake. You call it soul or mind. That is next understanding. But the machine is not working independently. That should be understood first. Then how the machine is working that will be next chapter. So they have no understanding even that how the machine is working. Mūḍhā nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10).
Jayatīrtha: In today's society that standard is unimaginable.
Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore there is no adjustment. Everyone is suffering in spite of so-called education. Nobody is happy.
Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the professor was also saying that Kant had a theistic viewpoint also. He believed that there was God and what other things were you saying?
John Mize: The nature of God? Kant's view?
Bahulāśva: Kant's philosophy.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...you meet Bon Mahārāja, and if he talks again time, say, "You were sent in London for establishing a temple, why you could not do it? You remained there for three, four years. And why you were called back by Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī? What did you do for the three, four years in spite of full support from Gauḍīya Maṭha?" We were sending seven hundred rupees. In those days seven hundred rupees means nowadays seven thousand. He was squandering the money. "Authority, authority, scholarly, how many books you have published from your institution for the last forty years?" He was in London. In the 1930's he came back. Came back means Guru Mahārāja called him back. Then he separated from Gauḍīya Maṭha, and he tried to start this institution. Sometimes in the 1945, '47..., not '40, '30. And it is '75, clear forty years. So what books you have published? Authority, scholarly, what books you have published? And how many scholars you have produced? Why it is closed now?
Prabhupāda: Solution not only of your country or our country, it is the solution for the whole human society. I told that as there are different divisions in the same body, the head, the arms, the belly, and the leg... Although the body is one, but there are different parts for different function. Then the body is going nicely. The head is the most important part of the body. So if the head is not in order, then, in spite of presentation of other parts of the body, hands, leg, the body is useless. Just like a madman. Madman, this brain is not in order. Therefore despite the presentation of the hands, legs, and other things, it is useless. Similarly, the human society should be divided into four classes according to quality. Not everyone is on the same level. So for, even for material purposes there must be four divisions: first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class, means... The definition of the first-class, find out. This is the definition of the first-class man.
Prabhupāda: Then there will be peaceful condition for realization of the goal of life, back to home, back to Godhead. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is teaching this process of life, and the whole world is now in chaos on account of no brain. Just like we have got this body. If the brain is not working in good condition, then he is called a madman. So in spite of possessing other parts of the body, namely, the arm, the belly, and the leg, if the head is not in good condition, then the body is useless. At this present moment there is want of first-class men and also second-class men. The whole world is filled up with third-class, fourth-class, fifth-class men. Therefore the society is not properly adjusted. By accepting this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement... The process is described very nicely in the Bhagavad-gītā. If we follow the principles of Bhagavad-gītā, we will find answers for all the problems of life, and if we take it seriously, then the whole human society will be happy, peaceful, in this life, and next life they will go back to home, back to Godhead for eternal blissful life of knowledge. So we are giving literary information in fifty books. Some of the books are distributed here. You can see.
Unless there is such structure of the society... Just like in our body we have got four divisions, the head, the arms, the belly and the leg. All of them are required. But the position of the head and position of the leg are different. Head means giving direction, and arms means giving protection, and belly means receiving food for energy of the body, and leg means working. So the human society must be divided into four section, and they should work combinedly, cooperatively. Then there will be peaceful condition for realization of the goal of life, back to home, back to Godhead. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is teaching this process of life, and the whole world is now in chaos on account of no brain. Just like we have got this body. If the brain is not working in good condition, then he is called a madman. So in spite of possessing other parts of the body, namely, the arm, the belly, and the leg, if the head is not in good condition, then the body is useless. At this present moment there is want of first-class men and also second-class men. The whole world is filled up with third-class, fourth-class, fifth-class men. Therefore the society is not properly adjusted.
Prabhupāda: So there is no freedom; still, they think that they have freedom. That means under some plea, the men are cheating the women, that's all. So in the name of independence, they have agreed to be cheated by another class. This is the situation.
Sandy Nixon: In spite of that, can women know Kṛṣṇa as...
Prabhupāda: We have no such distinction.
Sandy Nixon: No distinction...
Prabhupāda: We give Kṛṣṇa consciousness both to the woman and man equally. We do not make any such distinction. But to protect them from this exploitation by man, we teach something, that "You do like this. You do like that. You be married. Be settled up. Don't wander independently." We teach them like that. But so far Kṛṣṇa consciousness is concerned, we equally distribute. There is no such thing that "Oh, you are woman, less intelligent or more intelligent. Therefore you cannot come." We don't say that. We welcome women, men, poor, rich, everyone, because in that platform equality.
Prabhupāda: You want me to speak? I can speak. Shall I speak? Yesterday in San Diego one press representative met me. So I told that America is advanced in material civilization, all comforts of bodily concept of life. But why the American young men are becoming hippies and crazy. Yesterday, I saw, some of the girls came almost naked. So why they are dissatisfied in spite of so much material advancement? They have got enough food, enough shelter, enough clothing, enough cars and everything. There is no scarcity. Why they are disappointed? Can you answer, why they are disappointed? It means they requires spiritual fulfillment of desire. That is the nature. When in the primitive stage of life, a man is concerned about the bodily comforts. And when one is advanced or satisfied—not satisfied; advanced—in our bodily concept of life, the next question is about spiritual life. So America is in that point, specially. So unless you fulfill their spiritual needs, they will remain in such disturbing condition.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: And that way there is cooperation.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The animals, bulls, should have helped in spite of that... instead of that machine. Then it is properly utilized. And others, they cannot utilize these animals. Therefore, what they will do? Naturally they will send to slaughterhouse. But we are not going to send to the slaughterhouse. Then what we will do? They must be utilized. Otherwise simply for growing food that the cows and bulls we engage ourself? You are already feeling burden because there are so many bull calves. You were asking me, "What we shall do with so many bulls?"
Nityānanda: Well, when they grow up we will train them as oxen.
Prabhupāda: No, what the oxen will do?
Brahmānanda: But they see responsibility only in terms of making a bank balance and having a nice home and satisfying our...
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are suffering. In spite of bank balance, they are suffering.
Harikeśa: (whispering) ...finding it impossible on that side. Excuse me. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...said, suppose you have not done your responsibility properly, so then you have become sinful. Hm? Is it not? So Kṛṣṇa gives assurance that "You surrender to Me, and I give you protection from all sins." So even you think that "By giving up my all other responsibilities I am taking shelter of You. Then I will be punishable for my sinful act," so Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). Then where is my responsibility? I become free immediately, provided I surrender to Kṛṣṇa without any reservations. Then. Then it is. Otherwise not.
Prabhupāda: It is not duty? This is the main duty. This is the main duty. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām (BG 18.66). We have taken responsibility for Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are doing. Why we are traveling all over the world thrice in a year? We have taken the responsibility. Otherwise, who is, an old man, he'll take such responsibility? That is a greater responsibility. When you become a big officer of the government, it means you overburdened with responsibility, not this flickering resp... Here the material respons... means it has no use. You are simply wasting time. And here is real responsibility and real life. That I explained to that lady, that "Even if you take respons... what can you do? You cannot do anything." The example I gave, that "You have taken responsibility for your son's disease. He is suffering. You have brought good physician, you have brought good medicine, everything, but what can you do? In spite of your all responsibility, your son dies. Then where is the value of your responsibility?" Do you think simply by bringing a nice physician and nice medicine you can save your son? Then where is your responsibility? Actually you cannot do anything, so what is the use of saying that "I am responsible"?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Lalitā: And it is a proof. I will tell what Guru Mahārāja has done.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I am simply... This is our process. We don't manufacture nonsense things. They are afraid of me because they see that in spite of their so many hypnotism and magic, and what is called, miracles, they are..., where they are and where I am. That is their fear.
Lalitā: Fear.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They understood that "This man does not show any magic, and he is playing wonderful thing." That, every gentleman, every man, can understand. When I was at Kumbha-melā all these Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, they were receiving me like anything because they understand that they could not do anything. How they can do? Kṛṣṇa śakti vinā nahe nāma pracāra. One must receive strength from the superior; then it is possible. It is not a bogus thing, that anyone can do it. Kṛṣṇa śakti... It is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Have you got Caitanya-caritāmṛta?
Prabhupāda: Mano-rathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ. By his chariot of the mind he will be driven to this material consciousness. (break) ...spiritual knowledge. Therefore, we see, big, big scientists, they are thinking that combination of matter can produce life. In spite of so much advanced learning, they do not know what is life. They cannot create life; still, they will theorize. How foolish they are. And as soon as you catch his throat, "Produce life." "No, we shall do it in future." Just see.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes people ask that "If God is so great, then why doesn't He just come and destroy all the evil?"
Prabhupāda: Because you have to suffer. You are rascal. You must suffer. Therefore evil must be there.
Brahmānanda: Why doesn't He force us to be good?
Prabhupāda: Defamy. So the last defamy is that you die. I say, "You are rascal. You are fool. You are this, and that." This is all not so dangerous. But if I say that "You die," that is the last defamy. So in spite of all their clever invention, they are going to die. Then what is the value? That you cannot check. "I have done wonderful things"—that's all right, invention, so many things. That's all right. "But what about my death?" Have you done anything that you can save yourself? You, Mr. Darwin, you have so experience. Millions of millions of years you have got. Why don't you stop your death? You cannot live more than a hundred years, and you are talking of millions of years. What is this nonsense? You stop your death, live for millions of years and see things. So where is that power? Then what is your value? You live for fifty years, sixty years, or utmost, hundred years, and you talk of millions of years?
Prabhupāda: You may do whatever occupational duty you are... But you have to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Then your everything is perfect. And if you satisfy your senses, then you are going to hell. This is the position. Therefore it is... Sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya (BG 18.46). Even that karma is abominable, sa-doṣam api na tyājet (BG 18.48). "You go on with your work. Even there is some fault, it doesn't matter, but you satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Then it is perfect." Just like Arjuna did. The fighting is not good business, but he satisfied Kṛṣṇa. Therefore by fighting, he became a great devotee-sva-karmaṇā. He did not leave his position as a kṣatriya, as a gṛhastha, but he... Karisye vacanam tava: (BG 18.73) "Yes. In spite of my not being inclined to fight, because You are asking, I'll do it." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (Hindi) (break) You remain in your place, but you have your ears to hear Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll be perfect. What is the difficulty? You remain as a doctor. You remain as a pleader. You remain whatever you like. It doesn't matter. But engage your aural reception to the words of Kṛṣṇa. Then you become perfect. What is the difficulty? Simply sit down and hear what Kṛṣṇa says, Bhagavad-gītā. That's all. And if you say that "I simply hear," and if you do not act, no, you'll act because as you go on hearing, your heart will be purified. Then you will be inclined to hear..., er, act.
Prabhupāda: That is also external. Real unity is on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (Hindi) The Vedānta begins, athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Just inquire about the soul." And where is that education? This human life, they are opening so many colleges, schools, institutions. Where is the instruction about the soul? So go-kharaḥ. (Hindi) In spite of so much improvement, they are behaving just like cats and dogs. In South Africa the Indians are given the far away from the city.
Dr. Patel: They have been very badly segregated. They can't have any business, I hear.
Prabhupāda: They are put into difficulty.
Dr. Patel: They are following Hitler's method of superiority of... They don't understand that Indians are as superior as they are, rather more, ethically.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Eventually they're going to try to have men with two heads. They first experiment with animals and then try it on men.
Prabhupāda: Therefore Rāvaṇa had ten heads, and he was killed in spite of ten heads. Still, he could not save himself from the hands of Rāma, although he had ten heads. He thought that "I have now ten heads. Who can be more intelligent than me?" And still, Rāmacandra proved, "Yes, I am better intelligent than you." (break) ...Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan?
Tejās: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: (break) ...even though we're here. Kalākendra.
Prabhupāda: What is that, here?
Harikeśa: But there are many Marxists in America. Like on the subway...
Prabhupāda: Many Marxists, there are many capitalists. That is another thing. But why the Russians could not make everyone Marxist in spite of so much propaganda? What is the basic principle of Russian philosophy?
Tejās: What is the basic principle?
Haṁsadūta: Follow the teachings of Marx.
Prabhupāda: No, no. What is that teaching?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Everything belongs to the state.
Ambarīṣa: The worker is supreme.
Prabhupāda: Then? Then another rascal. If matter is supreme, why don't you combine matter and let it move. So what is that supreme which is moving this matter? If they do not know, then again a rascal, in spite of so much philosophy and so much communism. Why, when Stalin and Lenin died, they simply remained matter? Why it was not moving? Where is that matter?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That they are working on.
Prabhupāda: Again the same rascal. Again another rascal. They are working; therefore we must be satisfied. Postdated check. How you say all these things?
Harikeśa: Well, their philosophy is just a social philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, it is not perfect.
Prabhupāda: He loses his own bread and there is no other bread. That's all. (Sanskrit) The lion he thought there is another lion within the well, and jumped over it. He lost his life, that's all. This going on. So, he's so strong, lion, it is fabulously strong, but he's animal. In spite of so much strength, he's an animal. Similarly this modern civilization, in spite of so much so-called advancement, they are simply animals. That's all. A big animal is eulogized by another small animal, that's all. Animal is animal, big animal or small. (pointing out on the road) Just see he hasn't got master, and what is his condition?
Harikeśa: Pretty bad.
Prabhupāda: Why should I expect the death of my wife?
Dr. Patel: No, his wife died, and he accepted that way. He was not expecting. We are all dead so far as we are Kṛṣṇa conscious...
Prabhupāda: Dhīra means in spite of presence of agitation, if one is not agitated, that is dhira. And if I pray that "Here is the cause of agitation. Let her die," that is not very good. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: No, after she died. You have misunderstood me, sir. You are, you are... Even a great bhakta,, a great Vaiṣṇava bhakta, and I mean I, I don't think he would... He would say...
Prabhupāda: Why should I pray for somebody's death?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless they are separated, it is very difficult to advance in spiritual consciousness. That is the whole Vedic system. Gradual. First of all, brahmacārī, he is educated very nicely that this is not good to marry and enter into a family life. And in spite of education, if he is still inclined, then he is allowed to marry. This is a concession. And that is for a few days, few years. Then compulsory separation from the family life. Vanaprāstha. At that time, wife is allowed to stay with the husband, but finally they are separated, sannyāsa. Wife should go home, remain with their children. That's all.
Lokanātha: So when they are gṛhastha, they make advancement?
Prabhupāda: Hm? That advancement is not very solid. But there is advancement; but that is not very solid.
| Page Title: | In spite of... (Conversations 1968 - 1975) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 07 of Sep, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=95, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 95 |