In order to... (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"in order for" |"in order that" |"in order to"

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1971, Gorakhpur:

Prabhupāda: No, we are not to satisfy the authorities. We have to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna. He wanted to satisfy his family members, but Kṛṣṇa did not like that. Then He preached him Bhagavad-gītā, and then Arjuna agreed, "Yes." Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). So it is the duty of the devotee to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, not the public.

Brahmānanda: In our Back to Godhead magazine now the tendency is that they're not mentioning Kṛṣṇa's name so much. They're not putting the picture of Kṛṣṇa. They're not putting the pictures of the devotees. They're stressing on like simple, natural life in order to please the public.

Prabhupāda: No. Why this is going on?

Satsvarūpa: Probably because of this reasoning, that... They use this phrase, that "We have to make Kṛṣṇa consciousness more conventional, and with the shaved heads and pictures of Kṛṣṇa, people won't like it." So they've taken to this description of simple life, vague talk of spiritual life, reincarnation, meditation.

Tripurāri: Seems like a compromise.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: People are speaking about our movement now. Many people say to us that "You are selling out, compromising your position." And they...

Prabhupāda: This should be stopped, immediately. Why they are doing that without..., concocting?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a great deal of not approval among many of the senior devotees.

Prabhupāda: So, immediately stop it.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes the devotees question that the Kali-yuga is advancing, and in that sense the standards are deteriorating. Yet you are preaching that "Get everyone to the position where everyone is Kṛṣṇa conscious." How in the Kali-yuga advancing can everyone become Kṛṣṇa conscious?

Prabhupāda: They do not understand. If I say, "The epidemic is increasing. You take this injection, then you can be saved. If you don't take vaccination, then you'll suffer." This is our propaganda. "You take this vaccination; you'll be saved. The epidemic is very strong." But if you think, "Now, because there is epidemic there is no other way. What is the use of taking vaccination?" This is no argument. The epidemic is there; the vaccination is there. (aside:) This is tulasī? Tell them. The disease is there; the medicine is there. So intelligent man should take the medicine, precaution, and then he'll be saved. Two things are there. Kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. In Kali-yuga, if you don't take this, then there is no means of your save, safety. The two things are there. Why you are taking one thing? You take this thing or... (break) Everywhere two things are there: do's and don't's. So in order to make the process of do's you have to accept the process of don't's. That Nectar of Instruction, Rūpa Gosvāmī? He's instructing both the do's and the don't's. Huh? You have read it?

Harikeśa: Atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca... (NOI 2).

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Harikeśa: Atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca.

Morning Walk -- March 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: I am Indian. Why, you Americans, you should obey me? You have done it voluntarily. Yes. So, (chuckles) in India they appreciate me only on this point, that I am Indian; how I am controlling so many Americans? That is their appreciation. (laughter) So this acceptance of guru means voluntarily surrender. Yes. Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). The instruction is there in the... They were friends, Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna. From material point of view, they are equal. He is also belonging to the royal family, he is also belonging to the royal family, and they are cousin brothers, equal footing, friend. But still, Arjuna said, "Now there is no solution. I become Your disciple." Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam: "I surrender." And this is sisya, surrender. And then lessons on Bhagavad-gītā began. So we have to surrender voluntarily; otherwise discipline cannot be implemented. That is wanted. Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam.

Guru-kṛpā: Śrīla Prabhupāda, it mentions in The Nectar of Devotion that in the viddhi-mārga there are many things we don't want to do but we must do in order to make advancement.

Prabhupāda: No, that is also modern government, democracy. I do not want to do something, but the Parliament pass the laws. We have to do, even I do not like. That is discipline. Just like C. R. Das. C. R. Das was one of the prominent member of Indian Congress. So he was earning in those days, fifty years ago, fifty thousand rupees per month. It is twenty times now increased.

Morning Walk -- March 9, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Emergency yajña.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You convince him like that.

Yaśodānandana: This is very clever.

Prabhupāda: And factually we have to do that in order to check the flood. Make scheme like Europeans and Americans. Why you are thinking in terms of Indian plan?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's been here a long time, Prabhupāda. (laughter) He's thinking like a...

Prabhupāda: But I am born here. I have no Indian plan. My plans are all American.

Yaśodānandana: Jaya Prabhupāda!

Guru-krpa: Your plans are Kṛṣṇa's plans, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hm? Yes. I planned that "I must go to America." Yes. That was the reason. Otherwise, generally they go to London. I did not go to London.

Morning Walk -- March 12, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: After all, they are boys. They are not grown up. (break) ...your Calcutta program?

Jayapatāka: They're going tomorrow morning. (break)

Bhavānanda: ...maṭha, and then we went to Mādhava Mahārāja's maṭha. So Acyutānanda gave a very strong lecture at Mādhava Mahārāja's maṭha that in order to make devotees who are chanting the holy name, it takes more than any material calculation or business sense, that you have be infused with the potency of the Supreme Lord. All of the sannyāsīs and brahmacārīs were standing out on the balcony and hearing Acyutānanda glorify Your Divine Grace. All the devotees went in.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...small card. So one card is put into the shoes, and one card is in his hand. That's all. Number. Suppose twenty shoes duplicate, so one twenty card is put into the shoe and one number twenty in his hand. So a man can see that it is his shoe.

Yaśodānandana: Instead of requesting ten paisā, they may be requested to offer something to the Deity.

Prabhupāda: Why? Nothing. Let them come and see. That's all.

Yaśodānandana: (break) Our Deity is not beggar.

Prabhupāda: No. He is bestower. He gives everything. If anyone voluntary gives, that's all right. You should not ask. (break) ...instead of doing this. (Bengali) He said like that. "By showing the Deity to earn livelihood is condemned. Better become a sweeper, municipal sweeper, and sweep the road and earn money." He said like that. That is better, honorable. He is working and getting money, instead of making a good show of Deity and earn money. This is not required. If you want to earn money, go, work according to your capacity and earn money. Don't cheat people. That is Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: It is not our policy that the whole country will be on our side. That is not.... At least some of them may be interested. That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yaśodānandana Mahārāja says that the Chinese Bhagavad-gītā is ready for publication.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's at the printer. It will be ready in two weeks.

Revatīnandana: Another interesting thing about China is because they have such a huge population, in order to feed the population they've had to turn to production of agricultural products rather than meat.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the only way. That is the only way. If you want to make them happy.... That we are preaching in the Bhagavad-gītā. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Produce grains. Everyone will eat nicely, and they will be happy.

Revatīnandana: Not only are they increasing grains, but because it's so much more economical to produce grains than to produce animals...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is natural.

Revatīnandana: ...they are largely vegetarian.

Prabhupāda: That is natural.

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

rabhupāda: Yes. So he has offered seat.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? In the Bhāgavatam it says that although Lord Viṣṇu is the controller of everything, He is particularly in charge with the mode of goodness, and He is associated with maintenance. So is it that in order to maintain something in this material world also, there has to be the touch of the mode of goodness?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ

kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye

ceta etair anāviddhaṁ

sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati

(SB 1.2.19)

When the heart is cleansed of the dirty things, rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ, the modes of rajaḥ and tamaḥ, ignorance and passion, then he is situated in the sattva-guṇa. There are three guṇas. If you become released from the tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa, naturally you are situated in the sattva-guṇa. Sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati. Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye, ceta etair anāviddham. When the heart is not attacked by this rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa, then it remains fixed up in sattva-guṇa.

Press Conference -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:

Prabhupāda: It is not my—everyone's. You are in ignorance; you do not know; therefore we are trying to educate you. It is yours also. It is not a personal thing. It is meant for the living entities. That you people, you do not know, that we are all living entities. There is slight description of the evolution by Darwin. But he's also not in perfect knowledge. The real fact is the..., I am not this body, you are not this body. I am living entity within this body. Just like you are within your coat and shirt. The coat and shirt you are not. Similarly, we living entities, we are within this gross and subtle body. The gross body is made of earth, water, air, fire, and the subtle body is made of mind, intelligence, and egotism. So we are within this. So nobody knows; there is no educational system, what is our real constitutional position. We are wrongly accepting this body. And that kind of acceptance is there in the animals. The dog also thinking that "I am this body." So if I am thinking like that, "I am this body," then what is the difference between the dog and me? We are educating from him that point of view, that the living entity is entrapped within this body, and according to his desire, he's changing different types of body and undergoing continually birth and death. So in order to save him from the cycle of birth and death, one has to understand God, or Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means God. Then he comes to his real, identical position as spiritual body, and then he lives forever. He lives forever. Just like a man changing constantly dresses; that does not mean he's dying. Similarly, we do not die. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). After destruction of this body, we are not dying. We remain. But we simply accept another body. So this is a great botheration. But people are in ignorance. They're thinking that after death there is no life. This ignorance is a great, I mean to say, difficult position. So we are trying to educate them how to get out of this entanglement of cycle, birth and death. And therefore there are so many books on this subject matter. It is a very serious movement. It is not compared to the so many rascal movements. So if you are serious, you can study our books, you can try to understand the philosophy, science; then the whole human society will be benefited.

Room Conversation -- May 2, 1976, Fiji:

Guru-kṛpā: So what is the exact meaning of that verse, śraddhā-śabde. That verse...

Prabhupāda: Yes, śraddhā. That faith increase, and when it is increased so much that he fully understands, "By worshiping Kṛṣṇa, everything is done," that is first-class faith. Śraddhā-śabde viśvāsa kahe sudṛḍha niścaya (Cc. Madhya 22.62). If he becomes fixed up, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality," that is first-class, means fulfillment of faith. In the beginning it might be doubtful, neophyte. But when that is, that faith is fixed up, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality," that is the fulfillment of faith. Faith also there are different stages, improvement. Devotional service means different grades of faith. Today I am in one stage of faith, next day another stage, next day another stage, next day another stage. And when you come to the stage that vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19), oh, that is final. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That takes time. And quickly also, if one is fortunate. If one is intelligent—"The śāstra says, 'Vāsudeva is everything,' so why not take Vāsudeva everything?"—then he gains the result immediately. And if he thinks, "All right, let me see for some time," so he may waste his time, but the point is the same. Point is the same, but he has not developed his faith to such extent. You have to wait. And intelligent person, he says, "Why shall I wait? Let me take finally vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). That business is finished." Sa mahātmā. Therefore it is said, sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That kind of staunch faith is not very easy. It is for the great personality. Immediately accepts. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Immediately accepts: "Yes." Then sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That is not very easily done. That means yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām (BG 7.28). He is completely free from all reaction of sinful life. Puṇya-karmaṇām—he is only engaged in pious activities. Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānām, te dvandva-moha... He has no more doubt. Dvandva-moha-nirmuktāḥ. He has no doubt. "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person." That's it. That's all. If you take by argument, reason, you may waste your time. But if you are intelligent, you can take it on the evidence of mahājano yena gataḥ, all the mahājanas.

svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ

kumāraḥ kapilo manuḥ

prahlādo janako bhīṣmo

balir vaiyāsakir vayam

(SB 6.3.20)

They are mahājanas. "Prahlāda has taken, Bhīṣmadeva has taken, Janaka Mahārāja has taken, Lord Brahmā has taken, Lord Śiva has taken, Nārada has taken, Kapila has taken.... What I am?" (laughs) That is intelligence. "Why I am waiting on my intelligence?" That is real. But this rascal is thinking more than Brahmā, Nārada, Kapila, Prahlāda. He is thinking he is more than them. That means rascal, overintelligent. Overintelligent means rascal. Intelligence means you must have reason. And if he is going beyond reason, only depending on himself, then he is overintelligent rascal. You understand overintelligent rascal? Don't be overintelligent. That is very risky. Be intelligent. Overintelligent means rascal. Spoiling. Just like milk. You are heating, and if you give overheat, spoil so many. That kind of heating is not required. You just push on heat as much required. Otherwise you'll spoil by your intelligence.

Devotee (2): They say that one should try to.... In order to approach the spiritual master one must...

Prabhupāda: Purchase?

Devotee (2): Approach. Approach. One must become perfect to start with. One must approach a perfect spiritual master and he must become perfect disciple. Could you explain that?

Prabhupāda: Yes. He should follow spiritual master. Then he is perfect disciple. Bring water with ice. (end)

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: It is not misleading. It is truth, but the truth as much as you can understand. It is not misleading because Lord Buddha knew that "This rascal will not understand more than this." So he did not say further knowledge.

Guru-kṛpā: Śrīla Prabhupāda, so some of our men, when we sell our books, sometimes we have to say things in order to get them to take the book. So that's actually not misleading.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, that is not misleading. Let him take, some way or other. (break) Why do you think was done by Lord Buddha? Because the atheist class, they did not believe in God: "There is no God." So Buddha said, "Yes, there is no God. You are right. But what I say, you accept." "Yes, sir." But he's God. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. We know that Lord Buddha is Kṛṣṇa. But he says, "No, no, there is.... No, there is no God. Yes, you are right. But what I say, you accept." "Yes, sir, we shall do that."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Buddha's name is also considered hari-nāma?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Buddha's name is also considered hari-nāma?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Holy name? If one chants...

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. He is mentioned in the Bhāgavata.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1976, Honolulu:

Devotee (1): They say that because people are feeling this necessity, it is a crutch.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Necessity means there is. Otherwise why necessity? When you feel hungry, the necessity of food, food is there. The necessity of light, the sun is there.

Devotee (4): Do you mean, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in order to conceive of something, a thing must be there?

Prabhupāda: There is no "conceive." Necessity. You require it. Just like when you're hungry you require food. Food is there. The eyes want to see; therefore the object of seeing is there. The hand wants to touch, so the object of touching is there. The nose wants to smell: the object of smell is there. So as soon as you feel necessity, the thing is there.

Hari-śauri: And it's there even if you don't feel the necessity.

Prabhupāda: Ha?

Hari-śauri: It's there even if you don't feel the necessity.

Prabhupāda: That is another tradition. First of all, as soon as you feel necessity, the object is there.

Devotee (4): They say that necessity should not be God, but that it should be transferred to man.

Prabhupāda: I am not talking of God. I say as soon as you feel necessity, the object is there.

Morning Walk -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Unless you are fully surrender, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), you cannot do it. Māyā will not leave you.

Rāmeśvara: But in order to fully surrender, you have to be free from māyā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Māyā will keep you freed when you fully surrender. If you surrender to your wife and many women, māyā will not give you.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He's thinking freedom without Kṛṣṇa.

Rāmeśvara: He says that māyā keeps making him full of material desires.

Prabhupāda: Yes, māyā must keep you, must keep you, must keep you because you are not surrendering fully.

Rāmeśvara: Then he says that "As long as I have all these material urges, I cannot control them. The māyā is insurmountable."

Prabhupāda: No. Māyā is not.... What māyā is? Punishing, that's all.

Hari-śauri: The desire is ours; it's simply either Kṛṣṇa or māyā.

Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to rectify your desires. That is bhakti.

Rāmeśvara: By chanting.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1976, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Recently, in New York, my parents came to visit me. You know they.... Actually they didn't come to see me, they came to the restaurant, but I happened to be there. (Prabhupāda laughs) So, ah, they related a very unusual incident that one of their friends is a lawyer in New York. So they were having dinner with him the other day, and he mentioned that recently he had gone to Las Vegas for a vacation. In Las Vegas there are many gambling casinos. So when he was about to depart on the plane, one of his friends gave him a five dollar bill and told him that "In order that your gambling to be fortunate, the first good person you see there, you give this five dollar bill to him, and it will automatically bring you good luck." So the man went to Las Vegas, and when he got out at the airport, one of our devotees approached him, and this gentleman happens to be a lawyer who's fighting against us to keep us out of the New York airport, he's representing the airline company. So he didn't know it was one of our devotees because they were in the regular clothes, civilian clothes. So the devotee said, "Please, we're doing good work, educating people, you kindly give a donation." So the man thought: "Well, my friend gave me this," he gave him five dollars, and naturally, the devotee gave him a book. So the man didn't look at it, but he went into the taxi, the lawyer, and then when he looked he realized-(laughter) he was supporting the enemy. And another incident they related is that they go on vacation to South America. So there were in the Amazon, in the jungle, in the Amazon...

Hṛdayānanda: Oh, I heard this when I...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...and they, right in the middle of the jungle, suddenly the devotees were there. (laughter) Hṛdayānanda's men were there preaching, and they said they could not imagine that they were in this most unusual place, no one was around, but suddenly the Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees were. (laughter)

Hṛdayānanda: They told me they met Tamāla Kṛṣṇa's mother.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Rādhāvallabha: If he gets a book in an unusual place, they always say, "You people are everywhere."

Rāmeśvara: When we tell the public that we only have maybe ten thousand devotees, they are very surprised there are so few Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees, because they see us everywhere.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Therefore we're the most enthusiastic missionaries in the world.

Prabhupāda: (break)...say that all the ten thousand devotees, each of them is a moon, not a star.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Trivikrama: The bad way is also the mercy of the Lord to help us realize that...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Bad way, good way, man proposes, God disposes. You want something, bad or good.... Actually, everything is bad. This body or the fish's body or the dog's body, that is all material body. So everything is bad. But I prefer to get the body of a human being or a dog or a fish or a bird. That is my choice. So God gives you that body. Everywhere God's mercy is there, because whatever you want, ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). In the material world, you have come to enjoy. You cannot enjoy. You are thinking.... Just like child. He's playing with something for sometime, again taking another thing, again taking another thing, childish. So similarly we want to enjoy this material world. Sometimes I am thinking it will be convenient if I get a man's body, it will be convenient if I get a tiger's body, it will be convenient if I get a fish's body. So God is supplying you: "All right, you take this body." So what is God's fault? He is very kind. You wanted to do something. Do it. Not only that, if he forgets that "I wanted the fish body, now how I have got it?" No, he forgets that he wanted it. So God reminds him that "You wanted this body; you have got this body." Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). So God is very kind in all circumstances. Now we proposing to enjoy this material world under different situations, and God is helping us. Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). You want to wander within this material world. That is your proposal. So, in order to enjoy this material world, you require different types of body. Just like they are trying to go to the moon planet. It requires a different body. So yānti deva-vratā devān: (BG 9.25) this life, you aspire of going to the moon planet; next life, automatically you will go there. Why you are trying unnecessarily to go to the moon planet by sputnik? You'll go there. You just always think of the moon and you'll go to the moon. It is simple process. And by this way, you cannot go. Now, exactly in the same way that you get the body of a fish and you very easily, whole day and night, for so many years, you jump over in the sea. So moon planet is one of the heavenly planets. There is process how to go to moon planet. In the Bhāgavata it is stated. Those who are karma-kāṇḍīya, very, discharging the Vedic ritualistic ceremony, karma-kāṇḍa, they can go to the moon planet or sun planet. There are millions and trillions of planets they can go. Yānti deva-vratā devān pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ (BG 9.25). The same thing. Suppose if you want to go to India, you prepare yourself, take the visa, the permit, the passport and necessary money and permission, so many things. You go there.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No. Just like it is a suitable circumstance from which the living entity makes his body.

Rādhāvallabha: But how has the cockroach been formed?

Prabhupāda: Just like embryo. The living entity comes of the two secretions of father and mother emulsified. It creates a situation so that he can stay there and develop a body.

Rādhāvallabha: But it requires some emanation from a cockroach body in order to create another cockroach body. So how can a cockroach body be created from vapors without contact of another cockroach?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Vapor does not create. The individual soul comes there according to his karma and, in that condition, he develops his body. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1).

Rāmeśvara: So the seed of.... The soul is within the vapor?

Prabhupāda: The seed, when it is put into the earth, a situation is created so the soul can develop into a tree.

Rādhāvallabha: But how would the soul develop a particular body...?

Prabhupāda: That is Yamarāja is.... We are reading the Yamarāja incident(?). That's all.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Whenever there is doubtful, go to your...

Madhusūdana: Just like it will have something that has perhaps two meanings, you can't...

Prabhupāda: Huh? There cannot be two meanings. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In order to understand, go to your guru.

Madhusūdana: In other words, sometimes it says Kṛṣṇa comes Himself, and actually the meaning is that He comes as His incarnation like Lord Buddha, but the verse seems to say that it's the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself, and without your purport it's not possible..., it's almost left so that you can be fooled, as if it's a covering, a special covering so that nondevotees cannot understand it.

Prabhupāda: The Supreme Personality cannot come? It is said there?

Madhusūdana: No, it says He comes in the form of Lord Buddha, but I remember it was a great misunderstanding that Buddha was...

Prabhupāda: He can come in any form He likes, not particularly as Lord Buddha. He's coming as fish, He's coming as tortoise, He's coming as boar, so why as Lord Buddha?

Madhusūdana: But you explain that Lord Buddha is not viṣṇu-tattva, but that He is śakty-āveśa-avatāra.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh, purport read.

Nalinīkaṇṭha: "In the material world in any form of life there is some so-called happiness and so-called distress. No one invites distress in order to suffer, but still it comes. Similarly, even if we do not endeavor to obtain the advantages of material happiness, we shall obtain them automatically. This happiness and distress are obtainable in any form of life without endeavor. Thus there is no need to waste time and energy fighting against distress or working very hard for happiness. Our only business in the human form of life should be to revive our relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead and thus become qualified to return home, back to Godhead. Material happiness and distress come as soon as we accept a material body, regardless of what form. We cannot avoid such happiness and distress under any circumstances. The best use of human form of life, therefore, lies in reviving our relationship with the Supreme Lord Viṣṇu."

Prabhupāda: So, is there any question about this statement?

Arnold Weiss: Yes. What originally caused us to lose our relationship with Lord Kṛṣṇa? I understand it is due to our desires, but how is this desire manifest?

Prabhupāda: Relationship is not lost. Just like you... Either you are in the prison house or you are in the kingdom of the state, your relationship with government is there. It does not mean that when you are put into the prison house to suffer, it does not mean you have lost relationship, is it that?

Arnold Weiss: Yes, but why are we in the prison house?

Prabhupāda: This is the cause: because you are criminal, you are put into the prison house, but the relationship continues.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Now discuss on this point.

Hṛdayānanda: One point you're mentioning, Prabhupāda, is a strong inclination for sense enjoyment is the cause of the material body. So it seems that people try to enjoy their senses in order to become happy, but actually they are causing their own suffering.

Prabhupāda: Entanglement. Sat-saṅga chāḍiyā kāinu asate vilāsa te-kāraṇe lāgila ye mora karma-bandha-phāṅsa. This entanglement.... To repeat birth and death is entanglement. That they do not know. Na te viduḥ. They're obliged to accept this entanglement life. So? Time is up? So read another verse.

Hṛdayānanda: Another verse?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Nalinīkaṇṭha: I have a question, if it's all right. This is, Prahlāda is instructing his schoolmates, but his schoolmates, I think they would argue, "That's all right, but we are young now; let us enjoy. Then later on in life we shall take up Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

Prabhupāda: And unless you learn.... Just like education is given when one is young, and when one is old enough, he cannot take any education. The education, receptive faculty is there when one is young. Otherwise, he cannot take any education. What do you think?

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: London airport is very congested.

Gopavṛndapāla: Yes, very.

Prabhupāda: Very, very congested. Always thousands and thousands of men. If there is any such bomb explosion.... Life is becoming more and more insecure. The advancement of civilization is no relief for these other problems.

Hṛdayānanda: Prahlāda Mahārāja has said that their solution is bringing more problem.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In order to solve one problem, more problems.

Dr. Wolfe: Prabhupāda, am I right when I say the only solution is a change of consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is real solution. So we shall now go?

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Hari-śauri: Someone can distribute that. Can someone bring those books? (end)

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Or translation. No, Sanskrit also. The mantra, hearing, that is very valuable. These are all Vedic mantras. If you simply hear, it helps you spiritually.

Hṛdayānanda:

manye dhanābhijana-rūpa-tapaḥ-śrutaujas-

tejaḥ-prabhāva-bala-pauruṣa-buddhi-yogāḥ

nārādhanāya hi bhavanti parasya puṁso

bhaktyā tutoṣa bhagavān gaja-yūtha-pāya

"Prahlāda Mahārāja continued: One may possess wealth, an aristocratic family, beauty, austerity, education, sensory expertise, luster, influence, physical strength, diligence, intelligence and mystic yogic power, but I think that even by all these qualifications one cannot satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead. However, one can satisfy the Lord simply by devotional service. Gajendra did this, and thus the Lord was satisfied with him."

viprād dvi-ṣaḍ-guṇa-yutād aravinda-nābha-

pādāravinda-vimukhāt śvapacaṁ variṣṭham

manye tad-arpita-mano-vacanehitārtha-

prāṇaṁ punāti sa kulaṁ na tu bhūrimānaḥ

"If a brāhmaṇa has all twelve of the brahminical qualifications (as they are stated in the book called Sanat-sujāta) but is not a devotee and is averse to the lotus feet of the Lord, he is certainly lower than a devotee who is a dog-eater but who has dedicated everything—mind, words, activities, wealth and life—to the Supreme Lord. Such a devotee is better than such a brāhmaṇa because the devotee can purify his whole family, whereas the so-called brāhmaṇa in a position of false prestige cannot purify even himself."

naivātmanaḥ prabhur ayaṁ nija-lābha-pūrṇo

mānaṁ janād aviduṣaḥ karuṇo vṛṇīte

yad yaj jano bhagavate vidadhīta mānaṁ

tac cātmane prati-mukhasya yathā mukha-śrīḥ

"The Supreme Lord, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is always fully satisfied in Himself. Therefore when something is offered to Him, the offering, by the Lord's mercy, is for the benefit of the devotee, for the Lord does not need service from anyone. To give an example, if one's face is decorated, the reflection of one's face in a mirror is also seen to be decorated."

tasmād ahaṁ vigata-viklava īśvarasya

sarvātmanā mahi gṛṇāmi yathā manīṣam

nīco 'jayā guṇa-visargam anupraviṣṭaḥ

pūyeta yena hi pumān anuvarṇitena

"Therefore, although I was born in a demoniac family, I may without a doubt offer prayers to the Lord with full endeavor, as far as my intelligence allows. Anyone who has been forced by ignorance to enter the material world may be purified of material life if he offers prayers to the Lord and hears the Lord's glories."

sarve hy amī vidhi-karās tava sattva-dhāmno

brahmādayo vayam iveśa na codvijantaḥ

kṣemāya bhūtaya utātma-sukhāya cāsya

vikrīḍitaṁ bhagavato rucirāvatāraiḥ

"O my Lord, all the demigods, headed by Lord Brahmā, are sincere servants of Your Lordship, who are situated in a transcendental position. Therefore they are not like us (Prahlāda and his father, the demon Hiraṇyakaśipu). Your appearance in this fearsome form is Your pastime for Your own pleasure. Such an incarnation is always meant for the protection and improvement of the universe."

tad yaccha manyum asuraś ca hatas tvayādya

modeta sādhur api vṛścika-sarpa-hatyā

lokāś ca nirvṛtim itāḥ pratiyanti sarve

rūpaṁ nṛsiṁha vibhayāya janāḥ smaranti

(SB 7.9.14)

"My Lord Nṛsiṁha-deva, please, therefore, cease Your anger now that my father, the great demon Hiraṇyakaśipu, has been killed. Since even saintly persons take pleasure in the killing of a scorpion or a snake, all the worlds have achieved great satisfaction because of the death of this demon. Now they are confident of their happiness, and they will always remember Your auspicious incarnation in order to be free from fear."

Prabhupāda: You are reading the transcription or original verse?

Hṛdayānanda: Transcription.

Prabhupāda: So this transcription is quite helpful in pronunciation, everything. Exact it is coming. The diacritic marks follow, you can pronounce exactly.

Garden Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Go on reading.

Jayādvaita.: "Material perplexities are like a forest fire that somehow blazes without being set by anyone. Similarly, the world situation is such that perplexities of life automatically appear, without our wanting such confusion. No one wants fire, and yet it takes place and we become perplexed. The Vedic wisdom therefore advises that in order to solve the perplexities of life and to understand the science of the solution, one must approach a bona fide spiritual master who is in the disciplic succession. A person with a bona fide spiritual master is supposed to know everything. One should not therefore remain in material perplexities but should approach a spiritual master. This is the purport of this verse. Who is the man in material perplexities? It is he who does not understand the problems of life. In the Bṛhad-āraṇyaka Upaniṣad the perplexed man is described as follows: yo vā etad akṣaraṁ gārgy aviditvāsmāl lokāt praiti sa kṛpaṇaḥ."

Prabhupāda: Yad viditvā yaḥ prayāti sa brāhmaṇa, etad avidyāt yaḥ prayāti sa eva kṛpaṇaḥ. Read.

Jayādvaita: " 'He is a miserly man who does not solve the problems of life as a human and who thus quits this world like the cats and dogs, without understanding the science of self-realization.' This human form of life is a most valuable asset for the living entity, who can utilize it for solving the problems of life; therefore, one who does not utilize this opportunity properly is a miser. On the other hand, there is the brāhmaṇa..."

Prabhupāda: They do not know even what are the problems of life. People are so uneducated, they do not know even what are the problems of life. They do not know. What generally people think the problems of life?

Hari-śauri: How to get more money, how to get more sense gratification. That's the main problem.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Your America has got so much money. Has it solved all the problems? Our Ambarīṣa Mahārāja will answer.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Hari-śauri: Social body.

Prabhupāda: Physical fitness, they are, this.... To keep the brain in order, that is also physical thing. So.... And the soldier trained up how to fight, that is also physical. But you cannot ask the high-court judge to go and fight in the field. Both of them are physical, but you cannot ask the high-court judge, "Go and fight in the front." His business is different, his business is different.

Scheverman: Each has a different role, function in the society.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Kern: But that, that seems to abandon the foolish.

Scheverman: Father Kern's concern is always for the poor, for the downtrodden, for those who suffer, for those who are deprived.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is imagination. That is never will be fulfilled. That is simply imagination. As I told you, that, what you can do? There are so many poor men. We can estimate like this: the rich men and the middle class men and the poor class men. These three orders are there everywhere.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Scheverman: Disciplined.

Prabhupāda: Discipline, yes.

Devotee (1): As well as self-controlled.

Prabhupāda: So in order to go to the highest status of life, he has to accept some austerity, tapasya. Especially for God realization. Austerity required. Then?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Purity.

Prabhupāda: Purity. So our purity.... Not our—everyone. Externally, internally. Externally, by taking bath or cleansing the body with soap of something else. And internally, to remain God conscious.

Kern: Internally to what?

Prabhupāda: Remain God conscious.

Scheverman: Remain God conscious.

Prabhupāda: Simply washing externally will not help us. Therefore our mantra of purity is bāhyābhyantara-śuciḥ.

(oṁ) apavitraḥ pavitro vā

sarvāvasthāṁ gato 'pi vā

yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ

sa bāhyābhyantara-śuciḥ

Śuciḥ means purified.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Now first of all, let us accept that the basic principle is the soul. Now whether he is innocent or evil, that we shall consider later on. First of all, the basic power is the spirit soul. First of all we have to understand that the spirit soul is there always, although we are changing bodies. This first principle has to be.... But they do not understand. This education is lacking.

Kathy Kerr: Do you advocate then that one deny the body? Like comforts and so forth, in order to...

Prabhupāda: No, why deny the body? Just like you are putting some type of dress. So dress is not unimportant. But real importance is you, the person. So where is that education about the real person? They are simply engrossed with the dress. This is going on. Such kind of mentality is there even within the cats and dogs. He's also thinking "I am this body." If a human being does not understand this fact, that he is not this body, he is changing his body, but he is spirit soul, then he is no better than the cats and dogs. We do not want to keep the human society in the category of cats and dogs. We want to raise them to the real understanding of his identification. That is our mission. It is neither Hindu religion or Muslim religion or.... This is science.

Prabhupada Visits Palace and Garden -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: What is the difficulty? If somebody wants to go, migrate in America, what India government will do?

Kīrtanānanda: They won't give them passport.

Prabhupāda: No, no, passport means coming back. But if he's going to domicile, Indian government cannot check. If I want to go somewhere and live there...

Kīrtanānanda: You have to have passport. As far as I know.

Prabhupāda: But passport means if he wants to return.

Kīrtanānanda: No, in other words, in order to get visa from US, you have to present your passport.

Prabhupāda: There are different kinds of visa. Immigration visa. Suppose if anyone wants to migrate in America, our society here, we give guarantee. I think there will be no...

Kīrtanānanda: No difficulty. We can try.

Prabhupāda: Our society is here, and we give this man our guarantee for maintenance. So what is the objection? By law there is no objection. And if the immigration department allows, "Yes, you can come and live," then where will be...? Immigration means that here government should be satisfied that this man is coming, he will have no difficulty, government gives permit.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: At least those who are above fifty years old. That is Vedic civilization. Pañcasordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. One who is over fifty years of age, vanaṁ vrajet. So vanaṁ vrajet means completely retired from family responsibilities and take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is compulsory according to Vedic civilization.

Pradyumna: "These four items are by far inferior to engagement in the devotional service of the Lord. Śrī Vyāsadeva as the authorized scholar knew very well this difference, and still, instead of giving more importance to the better type of engagement, namely the devotional service of the Lord, he had more or less improperly used his valuable time, and thus he was despondent. From this it is clearly indicated that no one can be pleased substantially without being engaged in the devotional service of the Lord. In the Bhagavad-gītā this fact is clearly mentioned. After liberation, which is the last item in the line of performing religiosity, etc., one is engaged in pure devotional service. This is called the stage of self-realization or brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20) stage. After attainment of this brahma-bhūta stage one is satisfied, but satisfaction is the beginning of transcendental bliss. One should progress by attaining neutrality and equality in the relative world. In passing this stage of equanimity, one is fixed up in the transcendental loving service of the Lord. This is the instruction of the Personality of Godhead in the Bhagavad-gītā. The conclusion is that in order to maintain the status quo of the brahma-bhūta stage, as also to increase the degree of transcendental realization, it is recommended by Nārada to Vyāsadeva that he, Vyāsadeva, should now eagerly and repeatedly describe the path of devotional service. This would cure him from gross despondency."

na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo

jagat-pavitraṁ pragṛṇīta karhicit

tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham uśanti mānasā

na yatra haṁsā niramanty uśikkṣayāḥ

(SB 1.5.10)

"Those words which do not describe the glories of the Lord, who alone can sanctify the atmosphere of the whole universe, are considered by saintly persons to be like unto a place of pilgrimage for crows."

Prabhupāda: Just like the modern newspaper. Huge bundle of newspaper every morning, huh? So it is, as it is said here, the place of enjoyment for the crows. What is that?

Pradyumna: Vāyasaṁ tīrtham.

Prabhupāda: Vāyasaṁ means crows. The crows, they take pleasure in a place where all rubbish and refuses are thrown. They take pleasure. So what is this newspaper? All rubbish things, they are collected together. Nobody likes it to read. They just glance over for a few minutes, and then it is thrown away, rubbish. And even it is thrown, nobody touches. So they are spending huge, so many newspapers. Each newspaper several editions in a day, huge establishment, but there is no substance of life. That is being described. Na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Don't divert your attention.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: " 'I shall never be alone,' one should think. 'Even if I live in the darkest regions of a forest, I shall be accompanied by Kṛṣṇa, and He will give me all protection.' That conviction is called abhayam, 'without fear.' This state of mind is necessary for a person in the renounced order of life. Then he has to purify his existence. There are so many rules and regulations to be followed in the renounced order of life. Most important of all, a sannyāsī is strictly forbidden to have any intimate relationship with a woman. He is even forbidden to talk with a woman in a secluded place. Lord Caitanya was an ideal sannyāsī, and when He was at Purī His feminine devotees could not even come near to offer their respects. They were advised to bow down from a distant place. This is not a sign of hatred for women as a class, but it is a stricture imposed on a sannyāsī not to have close connections with women. One has to follow the rules and regulations of a particular status of life in order to purify his existence. For a sannyāsī, intimate relations with a woman and possessions of wealth for sense gratification are strictly forbidden. The ideal sannyāsī was Lord Caitanya Himself, and we can learn from His life that He was very strict in regards to women. Although He is considered to be the most liberal incarnation of Godhead, accepting the most fallen conditioned souls, He strictly followed the rules and regulations of the sannyāsa order of life in connection with association with women. One of His personal associates, namely Choṭa Haridāsa, was personally associated with Lord Caitanya along with His other confidential personal associates. But somehow or other this Choṭa Haridāsa looked lustfully on a young woman, and Lord Caitanya was so strict that He at once rejected him from the society of His personal associates. Lord Caitanya said, 'For a sannyāsī, or anyone who is aspiring to get out of the clutches of material nature and trying to elevate himself to the spiritual nature and go back to home, back to Godhead, for him, looking towards material possessions and women for sense gratification—not even enjoying them, but just looking toward them with such a propensity—is so condemned that he had better commit suicide before experiencing such illicit desires.' So these are the processes for purification. The next item is jñāna-yoga-vyavasthitiḥ: being engaged in the cultivation of knowledge. Sannyāsī life is meant for distributing knowledge to the householders and others who have forgotten their real life of spiritual advancement. A sannyāsī is supposed to beg from door to door for his livelihood, but that does not mean that he is a beggar. Humility is also one of the qualifications of a transcendentally situated person, and out of sheer humility the sannyāsī goes from door to door, not exactly for the purpose of begging but to see the householders and awaken them to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the duty of a sannyāsī. If he is actually advanced and so ordered by his spiritual master, he should preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness with logic and understanding."

Prabhupāda: As a gentleman, if you go to somebody's house, you require his permission, but India, still, a sannyāsī doesn't require any permission. He can enter in any householder's house: "Mother, give me some food." This is the introduction. Not that he has gone there for food, but easy introduction. And generally the householder will receive a sannyāsī, "Yes, Swamiji, come here, sit down." They will offer obeisances and then they begin talks. This is the meaning. Not that he is hankering after food. This is only introduction. He's not a beggar. But people take advantage of this dress because they think that "Without any work I can beg and live." That is going on in India. So many rascals, they are taking this sannyāsī dress and living at the cost of others. Therefore people have become disgusted. They have no knowledge to preach.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: That is the purport. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsu śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). One has to go to guru when one is inquisitive. Jijñāsu. Jijñāsu means we want to know so many things; that is our nature. Child also wants to know. He asks his parents, "What is this, father? What is this, mother?" That inquisitiveness is there in everyone. So when one wants to know about the Supreme, then he requires a guru, or spiritual master. It is not a fashion that "Everyone keeps a guru; let me also have a guru." Not like that. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). "In order to understand the transcendental science, one has to go to guru." Jijñāsu śreya uttamam. After artha,... Just like generally, naturally, one goes to temple, church... Four classes of men. One is needy: "O God, give us our daily bread." One thinks... Actually, that is the fact. God gives us bread. So traditionally we are trained up. So we go to God, "Give us our daily bread." Similarly, one who wants to know what is God. Just like in our society, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they see that these boys, young boys, they have given up everything, they are after Kṛṣṇa. What is this Kṛṣṇa? That is intelligent. Why they are after this Kṛṣṇa? Then he has to go to a person, guru. In this way, there are many circumstances. But the real purpose is to know the Supreme. One who is inquisitive or anxious to know about the Supreme, then there is necessity of guru. Otherwise, what is the use of it? One who is not inquisitive to understand the Supreme, he has no business for a guru. But everyone has necessity to understand the Supreme. That is human life. A dog cannot inquire what is God, because he is dog. But a man can do that. He has got that developed intelligence. So if a man does not inquire about the Supreme Truth, he is no better than a dog. If one does not seek after spiritual master, he's a dog. He's in the standard of dog. Because that inquiry is the particular business of human being, to inquire about the Supreme. If he does not inquire, then still he's on the platform of dog. First of all, you have understood it or not? So any human being with developed intelligence must go to a spiritual master. If he does not go, then he's still in the animal platform. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Abhigacchet means he must. If he does not, then he is in the animal platform.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You're saying, rather, it's a classification according to the quality of a man's...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is wanted. That must be there.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: And what will be the benefit of classifying men according to their qualities?

Prabhupāda: Benefit will be then the whole thing will go in order. That is already described many times, that there must be brain, there must be arms, there must be belly, there must be legs for the complete composition of the body. If there is no brain, there is no head, then what is the use of these arms and legs and belly? It is all dead. So in the society, human society, if there is not a class of selected, truthful, honest, and so many brahminical qualifications, then society is ruined. Therefore they are perplexed. Everyone is a śūdra. Go to the factory. That's all. Go to the factory and bring money. And he is getting 25 dollars or 50 dollars daily and immediately purchasing wine and flat on Bowery Street. You'll produce such men, useless men, disturbing in the human society. You cannot make classless. If you make classless, naturally they will be all śūdras, fourth-class men. Then there will be society chaos.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: One religion is there already, that how to love God. This is one religion. Will the Christian say, "No. We don't want to love God"? Will the Christians say? Will the Mohammedans say, "No, no. We don't want to love God"? So religion means how to love God, and any religion which teaches how to love God, that is perfect. It doesn't matter whether he's Christian or Muslim or Hindu. It doesn't matter. You have to be educated to take your degree. It doesn't matter from which college you take degree. Similarly, religion means you have to learn how to love God. If you have no love for God, it is all useless. That is not religion. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Sākṣād, Bhagavān Kṛṣṇa says, "You surrender unto Me." You cannot surrender until you love. You are surrendered to me, I am also an Indian. Because you have love for me, therefore there is surrender. If I say that "You die," you'll die. Why? Because you love me. So when there will be surrender? Unless one loves God. Unless that platform is not there, that "I love you, I can sacrifice everything for you." That is on the the basic principle of love. Therefore that religion is perfect which teaches the followers how to love God. This is religious principle. So let everyone come to this platform, how to love God. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are teaching nothing, but training them how to love God, how they can sacrifice everything for God. So that is religion. Otherwise a bogus waste of time, simply following the ritualistic ceremonies. That is not religion. That is superfluous.

dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ

viṣvaksena-kathāsu yaḥ

notpādayed yadi ratiṁ

śrama eva hi kevalam

(SB 1.2.8)

You are very good, you are following your religious principle very strictly, adherently. That's all right. But what about your love of God? "Oh, that I do not know." So śāstra says, śrama eva hi... It is simply waste of time, and simply laboring. That's all. If you have not learned to love God, then what is the meaning of your religion? Then, when you're actually on the platform of love of God, you understand your relationship with God, that "I am part and parcel of God. Not only I am part and parcel of God, this dog is also part and parcel of.... Every living entity." Then you'll extend love for animal also. If you actually love God, then your love for insect also is there because you understand that "This insect, it has got a different body only, but he is also part and parcel, or my brother." Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Then you cannot maintain slaughterhouse. If you maintain slaughterhouse and disobey the order of Christ, thou shall not kill, and you proclaim yourself as Christian or Hindu or this.... That is not religion. Then śrama eva hi kevalam. Your going to the temple and church and everything is simply waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam. Because you do not understand God. You have no love for God. That is going on, all over the world. They're stamping under some sect, but there is no real religion. So in order to bring them all in one platform, they have to accept the principles of Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. If you do not accept in the beginning Kṛṣṇa, that He is the supreme, then you try to understand that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is education. There is somebody supreme. So if I say, because I am Hindu, I am Indian, that "Kṛṣṇa is the supreme," you may say, "Then why Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is Indian." "No. He is God. Just like the sun rises first in India, then comes to Europe.

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is fourth line. Give it to me. Where is spectacle? Oh, you have gone so far. Here it is. (laughter) Modeta sādhur api vṛścika-sarpa-hatyā.

Rādhāvallabha: It appeared, and you didn't even look. Remarkable.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:

tad yaccha manyum asuraś ca hatas tvayādya

modeta sādhur api vṛścika-sarpa-hatyā

lokāś ca nirvṛtim itāḥ pratiyanti sarve

rūpaṁ nṛsiṁha vibhayāya janāḥ smaranti

(SB 7.9.14)

"My Lord Nṛsiṁha-deva, please, therefore, cease Your anger now that my father, the great demon Hiraṇyakaśipu, has been killed. Since even saintly persons take pleasure in the killing of a scorpion or snake, all the worlds have achieved great satisfaction because of the death of this demon. Now they are confident of their happiness, and they will always remember Your auspicious incarnation in order to be free from fear."

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Purport. "The most important point in this verse is that although saintly persons never desire the killing of any living entity, they take pleasure in the killing of envious living entities like snakes and scorpions. Hiraṇyakaśipu was killed because he was worse than a snake or a scorpion, and therefore everyone was happy."

Prabhupāda: Snake or scorpion... Of course, sometimes snakes, they eat their own children. They do it. But he has... He has tried to kill his own child. Modeta sādhur api vṛścika-sarpa-hatyā. Very good example. Saintly persons, they also want killing living entities like snake.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Cādara will be too heavy. Here, take this.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now most of these slides will appear in our book, the origin of life and matter, Life Comes From Life. Now Sadāpūta and myself made these slides. These are some of the... Only a few slides. We specifically want comments from your Divine Grace Śrīla Prabhupāda, whether these slides will be appropriate to be in the book. Now this is the philosophy between the difference between life and matter. So this is sāṅkhya philosophy. The principles and the philosophy, as Śrīla Prabhupāda comments in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in the Third Canto, the sāṅkhya philosophy is especially meant for persons who are conditioned by this material world, and by understanding the science of devotional service and sāṅkhya philosophy, one can become free from the modes of material nature. So we want to impose that in order to understand the distinction between life and matter, one must at least have a glimpse of the Absolute Truth, at least some idea of the Absolute Truth. Otherwise, it is completely impossible to understand the difference between what is life and what is matter. That is why scientists nowadays are so much confused about the concept of life and matter. So in fact the scientist Orgell, in his book The Origin of Life, he starts with saying "What is life? The question 'What is life?' should not be inquired." He says...

Prabhupāda: One minute. That Absolute Truth is explained in the Vedānta-sūtra, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Absolute Truth is that from whom everything comes into existence, everything emanates. Now that has been discussed in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, because Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the natural commentary by the same author. So he begins janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ (SB 1.1.1). This word is used. He's not dead body, dead matter-abhijñaḥ, like that. In the beginning. That source of everything... Janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ (SB 1.1.1). Just like a mother gives birth to a child. She knows everything, how the child was born in the womb, how it developed, how it is coming. At least, on the whole, she knows everything. Similarly, the original source of everything is immediately informed in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that abhijñaḥ, experienced, knows everything. Anvayād itarataś ca, directly and indirectly, everything it knows. So the origin of everything cannot be a dead man. That is the beginning of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we say, yes, the fundamental and basic requirement is to understand this basic difference between the two principles, life and matter. Now here the Absolute Truth, in the śloka,

ity etat kathitaṁ gurvi

jñānaṁ tad brahma-darśanam

yenānubuddhyate tattvaṁ

prakṛteḥ puruṣasya ca

(SB 3.32.31)

The translation says, "My dear respectful mother, I have already described the path of understanding the Absolute Truth by which one can come to understand the real truth of matter and spirit and their relationship." So here it clearly says that in order to understand these basic principles, one must have at least some idea about the Absolute Truth. And it is quite scientific. Comparing our normal scientific disciplines like physics, chemistry and mathematics, in fact this very principle is utilized. But the scientists, not knowing that the axioms, or fundamental truths, are coming from the absolute source. So this is the basic requirement.

Prabhupāda: I have heard that mathematics believes by some imaginary thing, minus, so on, like that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The absolute numbers?

Prabhupāda: Something minus one, like that. Who is mathematician here?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: (laughs) Here is our mathematician.

Prabhupāda: All right, so is that the beginning of mathematics?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: What is the beginning of mathematics?

Sadāpūta: Well, the beginning of mathematics is counting a number. We have that square root of minus one.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That I heard. The beginning is minus one. That is imaginary; it is not fact. But they imagine something at the beginning.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Otherwise, it is not possible. That I explained this morning, panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyo vāyor athāpi manaso muni-puṅgavānām, so 'pyasti yat prapada-sīmny avincintya-tattve (Bs. 5.34). Without bhakti, if you go on speculating for many, many years with the speed of mind, if you want to go, still avincintya-tattve, it will remain inconceivable.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So what it means is that in order to understand this distinction between life and matter one must be a devotee.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We raise the question, we challenge these rascals because we are following the path of devotion. We are not scientists. And we could not challenge unless we were convinced. How it is possible? Suppose I am layman, how I am challenging these big, big scientists? It is not... Because we have known it through devotional service, so this is science. That is the difference.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So these are some of the axiomatic truths that are necessary steps in order to study this problem between life and...

Prabhupāda: In Bhagavad-gītā it is said bhaktyā mām abhijānāti: (BG 18.55) "One can understand Me through bhakti." And the Vedic injunction is that "If one knows Me, or knows the Absolute Truth, God, then he knows everything." Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. If somehow or other one knows the Absolute Truth, then he knows everything. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. That is the benefit of knowing the Absolute Truth. So a devotee knows everything.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Vedānta-sūtra means all axiom. Vedānta-sūtra, that is all axiom. Axiomatic truth.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the way that science works, also they depend on axioms. But actually, when one analyzes this a little thoughtfully, one should come to the conclusion that actually these axioms are coming from the Absolute. So our first proposition that in order to understand life and matter one must have this, er, some knowledge of the Absolute Truth is scientifically sound.

Prabhupāda: I tried to explain something in the beginning of Īśopaniṣad, my lecture in the Conway Hall, what is that Absolute Truth. "Introduction." I have given the example that the Vedas say cow dung is pure. This is axiomatic truth. Now if you analyze cow dung you'll find all the antiseptic properties are there. This is axiomatic.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now in the next slide we establish the difference between the life and matter. These are some of the basic differences between the...

Prabhupāda: We can't read it. I cannot read

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: One side it says "matter," the other side it says "life."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: On the left side, it is matter; on the right side, it is life. Now it is little different from the way that this different set-up by biologists. This is quite unique in a sense because we all take this from the sources of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Bhagavad-gītā. So the first point says that matter is the inferior energy of the Absolute Truth, and on the right column, it is the superior energy of the Absolute Truth. Now in the...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Rūpānuga: In crystal form. Like the stone does not show consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are two kinds of life. Sthāvara-jaṅgama. Sthāvara means stationary. The stone is also stationary. It never moves. Big mountain, even though it has got life, it is stationary. And a small ant, it is not stationary. It is moving. So there are two kinds of life, stationed and moving. Sthāvara-jaṅgama.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But Śrīla Prabhupāda, in order to present this to scientists in general, we are saying specifically that there is no life in stone.

Prabhupāda: No, that one stone may be dead. Just like a tree is standing. But when it is dead, the symptoms are different—there is no more green leaf. But the tree as it is, it is standing. But there is no more green leaf.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, but there is a basic difference.

Prabhupāda: So similarly we may not understand that life, so long life is there, there is development. There is a stone in Benares, Śilā-bandheśvara. Everyone knows that stone is increasing. Still, it is there. So people go to see it. One who has seen that stone ten years ago, you will see it is developed now. So life, symptom of life is growth.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "As stated in the last chapter, after suffering different kinds of hellish conditions, a man comes again to the human form of body. The same topic is continued in this chapter. In order to give a particular type of human form to a person who has already suffered hellish life, the soul is transferred to the semina of a man who is just suitable to become his father. During sexual intercourse, the soul is transferred through the semina of the father into the mother's womb in order to produce a particular type of body. This process is applicable to all embodied living entities, but it is especially mentioned for the man who has transferred to the Andha-tāmisra hell. After suffering there, when he who has had many types of hellish bodies, like those of dogs and hogs, is to come again to the human form, he is given the chance to take his birth in the same type of body from which he degraded himself to hell. Everything is done by the supervision of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Material nature supplies the body, but it does so under the direction of the Supersoul. It is said in Bhagavad-gītā that a living entity is wandering in this material world on a chariot made by material nature. The Supreme Lord, as Supersoul, is always present with the individual soul. He directs material nature to supply a particular type of body to the individual soul according to the result of his work, and the material nature supplies it. Here one word, retaḥ-kaṇāśrayaḥ, is very significant because it indicates that it is not the semina of the man that creates life within the womb of a woman; rather, the living entity, the soul, takes shelter in a particle of semina and is then pushed into the womb of a woman. Then the body develops. There is no possibility of creating a living entity without the presence of the soul, simply by sexual intercourse."

Prabhupāda: This is outside. This is not the combination of the solution. The soul is coming from outside. The same theory. It is not the solution which is creating life.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "The materialistic theory that there is no soul and that a child is born simply by material combination of a man's and woman's semina is not very feasible. It is unacceptable."

Prabhupāda: Next verse.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Just see how perfect. How perfect it is. (laughs) Pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation). Because the direction is coming from the pūrṇam, complete, so correction is made and everything is done, everything nicely. Because the direction is coming from the complete perfect, there cannot be any mistake. That's it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So this is actually the first step of protein synthesis. In order to make proteins, this messenger RNA has to be transcribed from this DNA molecule. In the next step you'll see the final step for protein synthesis. Now there are also RNA's—they are called transfer RNA, those white-colored, white and yellow-colored things. (laughter) Each of them has to bring a specific amino acid, coded to a specific code, three base codes, base pair. Now each of them has to bring a specific amino acid and to put it together in a very specific manner. They cannot scramble. Because if it scrambles there's not going to be...

Prabhupāda: Again mistake, again mistake.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. So it cannot happen.

Prabhupāda: Just rightly. So much direction is there, perfect.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Sadāpūta: We are also thinking that this inspiration illustrated the modes of nature and the law of karma to some extent, because like the mathematician had to struggle very painfully for a very long time without getting his result, and then he got it, so that seemed more like the mode of passion and like that. But Mozart apparently just got these things without having to struggle for them, as though that was his past karma or something. Next slide. This is a summary of the basic kind of argument we wanted to make. The picture on the left, those ovals represent states of matter, configurations of matter, and they go from simple, toward the bottom, like just a chemical solution, up towards more complex as you go up, like living bodies of different kinds. The theory of evolution is sort of indicated in the left-hand one. According to that theory, you have very simple natural laws, and you start out with simple physical states, but somehow these natural laws produce a progressive increase in order, as indicated by those arrows going up. But actually we want to argue that simple natural laws don't have the power to do that, and that the situation on the right is what would happen if you just had simple natural laws, namely they would keep shoving things around on a simple level but never produce anything complex. The next slide, though, indicates that if you had natural laws with a high order of complexity, then they could manifest physical situations with a high order of complexity also, depending on how much was built into the laws. So we wanted to, in these two examples, indicate a higher and higher order of natural laws. So what we wanted to do was then combine these two things together, on the one hand that consciousness is not a physical phenomenon, and on the other hand, that in order to get...

Prabhupāda: This is physical, but subtle.

Sadāpūta: The actual perception of the soul is not...?

Prabhupāda: Perception of the soul is there, but this physical demonstration is of the soul by consciousness. The more it is purified, it becomes spiritual. The consciousness is there. The more it is purified, then it becomes spiritual. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). It has to be purified. The water is crystal clear, but when it comes in touch with the earth it becomes muddy. But again you can clarify it, and water becomes crystal clear. That consciousness is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So some other living entity who is prominent in this quality, prominent that, it does not make much difference. So long he is in the material qualities, he's entrapped. So get him out of this condition and put him into the spiritual platform. That is the solution. Nistraiguṇyo bhavārjuna. In the material world if you think that the quantity of goodness is now big than the other modes of nature, that does not make a solution. Next moment the passion will be prominent, next moment the ignorance will be prominent. You cannot check it or fix him up in one quality. It is not possible. That is not possible. The best thing is to bring him to the unconditional stage, transcendental stage. Sa guṇān... Keep him engaged in devotional service, he is free from influence of all these qualities. That is wanted.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is on a human platform, but we wanted to appeal purely on a scientific level to the scientists. Now in order to bring these concepts that these three modes of nature, because of mixing of these three modes of nature it produces different species, varieties of species... Now this is completely unknown to them. They have no idea about these modes. So somehow we thought if we bring some specific examples like this, that looking the products of nature as a source, not worrying about transcendental or not, (microphone rattling)

Prabhupāda: What is the use of such things? If you particularly study that this living entity is now in this mode, say goodness fifty percent and passion ten percent, in this way, but it can change at any moment. You cannot fix it up.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Dr. Sukla: There are certain hymns in Vedas which are so personal and... And I don't find anything in Vedas impersonal. As a matter of fact...

Prabhupāda: No, no, impersonal there is. Impersonal means negation of this material thing. Neti neti, "Not this." Impersonal means not this material person. That is impersonal. Kṛṣṇa is person, but in order to convince people that He's person but not a material person, the material things have to be negated. That is Upaniṣad. Just to evade the material conception of the Absolute. But ultimately He's person. Brahmaṇo 'ham pratiṣṭhā. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣu (Bs. 5.40). These things are there. So in order to substantiate the Supreme Person as completely spiritual, the material conception of personality is rejected. That is impersonal. Nirguṇa means He has no material qualities. Bhakta-vatsala, Kṛṣṇa is bhakta-vatsala. That is not material quality, that is spiritual quality. So negation of material understanding is impersonal. But when one is fully in awareness of Kṛṣṇa, His spiritual identity, then again He's person.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So in fact, one of the remarks of a scientist, Nobel laureate actually, in Harvard, Mādhava told me he was in American Association for the Advancement of Science. This professor is a professor in biology in Harvard, Boston. His answer was that, "In order to have man in this planet, the stars have to die." That means we come from the stars. The particles, from the stars, then the main involved from those molecules, that star, that come from the stars.

Prabhupāda: You do something. I can give you the idea. But it is fact. What ideas I am giving, that's a fact. Now it is up to you to put it (into) so-called scientifics. He'll... In future millions of years after it will create one living entity in the laboratory, so he's taking all the credit, and God is creating millions and millions already, He has no credit. You'll see their intelligence. What the people will gain even if you manufacture one life in the laboratory? So what is the gain? Why you are spending so much money?

Yadubara: They want to become God.

Prabhupāda: God becoming is far away. First of all, make some living entity. But even if you do it, then what is your credit? Why you want to take so much great credit?

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Bill Sauer: ...in theses that we..., nature tolerates us. We are part of the tree of life, this is the tree of the animal kingdom. And since there is no way that the animal or plant can escape this planet in the body form, but we are here to support this new tree, the tree of technology, the tree of the fourth kingdom, which started out as the animals lived very simply and became more complex until we finally developed a means to launch the seeds of our civilization from this planet to others. We are a special creature which has been given special brain power, special power, which we have abused many times, by the way. But special power in order to create space arks to take, not just humanity, but really an ark of the totality of life to another planet, to, hopefully, hundreds of planets. Because sooner or later this planet will be destroyed by the sun.

Prabhupāda: Other planets also will be destroyed.

Bill Sauer: Pardon?

Prabhupāda: Other planets also will be destroyed.

Bill Sauer: Other planets? There couldn't be enough cosmic disaster to destroy a hundred planets at once.

Prabhupāda: Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19).

Bill Sauer: Our star will eventually turn into a red giant, will incinerate this earth. Other stars, the astrologers have found, or astronomers, excuse me...

Prabhupāda: You find out that verse? (Sauer laughs) Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20).

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Unless there is fire, wherefrom the light comes?

Bill Sauer: From the fire in the sun.

Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore the fire is the source of light.

Bill Sauer: That's the source of light, yes.

Prabhupāda: So as soon as you say light, you must find out the source of light.

Bill Sauer: That's correct. You must destroy matter in order to create light.

Woman guest: What about water?

Dr. Sharma: You don't destroy any matter; it is transmutation.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, in a million years.

Prabhupāda: Then the answer is the chicken is better than you. He can give you life within seven days. Dr. Chicken is better... They are shameless. Not ordinary, because ordinary a human being will become shameful to speak something nonsense. But they are shameless. In that Bengali, duḥkhānvita(?) One man, one ear was cut off. So in order to hide his cut-off ear he was keeping this side to the river side and this side to the habitation side. So then again his two ears were cut out. Then there is no question of hiding. Both of them were cut out. So these people are duḥkhānvita. When both the ears cut out, there is no shame. They will go on talking all nonsense. Because they are accepted. So many millions of years have passed in the history, nobody could do that, and they are giving hope that life will come after millions of years. Why million? Here is a chicken, he can give life within five days. What credit you'll get after millions of years? But they are duḥkhānvita.(?)So shameless they can speak such nonsense and still pass on as scientists. Tibocham,(?) I think. Duḥkhānvita. No shame, you do not feel that why you are talking nonsense. Am I right or wrong? Here is a chicken, insignificant animal, he is giving life within five days, and we are talking of millions of years, and still we are scientist, Dr. Frog.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We are going to use that example in our preaching.

Prabhupāda: The thing is that these persons, they are holding the... Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). A blind man, he has no eyes, and still, he's leader of other blind men. Is it possible? A blind man, he is blind man, he has no knowledge, and still, he's leading other blind men. This is a very dangerous position. He has no actual knowledge, simply speculating, putting theories and formulas, and they are leaders of the society.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: This is a spiritual movement, and at the present moment people are more interested with material improvement, but our real interest is... Not only our, every human being's interest should be for spiritual upliftment. Just like our body is there, and within the body I am the spirit soul, also I am there. So we are taking care of the body but not of the spirit soul. So the nature's law is that a spirit soul, changing in different position of the body, as we experience in this life, from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, similarly, after giving up this body, we'll have to accept another body, and there are 8,400,000 different forms of body. We do not know what kind of body we are going to accept according to our activities and mentality. At the time of death the mentality will ascertain what kind of body we are going to get next. So these things are completely not discussed, neither they have any knowledge. So at the present moment the human civilization is a very risky civilization, so in order to save them from this state of ignorance, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is essential. It is not a sectarian religious movement, faith or sentiment. It is actually scientific movement. Here are many scientists present. They are also taking very seriously about this movement. So we invite all important men to contact us and try to understand the basic principle of this movement, how to elevate the human society to the proper standard of life and become peaceful in this life as well as in the next life.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Just like this house, a combination of matter. But I am within this room, that does not mean I am this matter. Similarly, I am within this body, but that does not mean I am this body. This chemical composition is suitable arrangement, like this house is made with bricks, with lime, with stone, with wood. But as a living being, I am not identified with all those. Similarly, the body, it may be combination of chemicals, but the life is different.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So even if they could put the chemicals together, a spirit soul would still have to enter in order for it to become animated.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: My feelings is that even if they make these chemicals, the spirit is never going to come in that medium. Otherwise...

Prabhupāda: No, because it comes by superior order, not by your order. Daiva-netreṇa.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So that's good that now science is trying that in about fifty years or so, at the turn of the century, they have a strong hope that they will be able to understand the meaning of life from this chemical concept. But when they see that that's not possible, then they have to come around that what they thought was completely illusion. In that case, our...

Prabhupāda: Case will be strong.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes, then everybody will accept.

Prabhupāda: You can challenge that "You cannot do it."

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: So much drinking excessively. Drinking means laziness.

Rāmeśvara: Also the banks, they loan the city money, but at a very high interest rate. So then the city cannot afford it.

Hari-śauri: People nowadays are so filled with intoxications they are not fit to do anything.

Rāmeśvara: They loan the city money at a very high interest rate, so in order to pay it back they have to borrow more money.

Prabhupāda: Dried up on account of being detached from the original bark. Similarly, as soon as any civilization detached from God consciousness, they'll dry up.

Devotee (1): Simply buildings and cement, that is their culture.

Bali-mardana: Except for India, no civilization has lasted very long.

Prabhupāda: No, cannot last.

Hari-śauri: And as soon as they started to give up their culture in India, they're also dried up.

Prabhupāda: They'll dry. That is the nature's way. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Anyone detached from God consciousness, he has no qualification. Manorathena. Their only qualification is mental concoction. That's all. Just see, how this... In America, such a wretched man. Willfully. Willfully.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: No but dream is... It may be, but when there is fire, you call it dream, but why do you call fire brigade? When you are diseased why you go to physician? Dream it. (laughter) The major problem is birth, death, and old age, and disease. You do not want that. You must seek the measures. That is human life. Whether birth, death, old age, disease can be stopped? If there is any such life that there is no more birth, death, that is human life. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. That is the Vedānta philosophy: "Now the human life is meant for enquiring about these things." If you don't enquire, then you remain animal. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to save the human society from this animal life. To bring him to the real human life. Animal life means there is suffering—go on suffering. Human life means there is suffering—how to get, how to counteract. That is human life. Suffering—so long you have got this body, there must be suffering.

nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma

yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti

na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam

asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ

(SB 5.5.4)

The karmīs, Ṛṣabhadeva is warning that nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma: (SB 5.5.4) these rascals being mad after sense gratification, they are doing everything and anything irresponsibly. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ. Pramattaḥ means mad. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). Things which you should not have done, but he's doing it. Why? Yad indriya-prītaya: Simply for sense gratification. Therefore, he advises, na sādhu ayam: this is not good. So why it is not good? Yata: he has already got a body, material body for which he's suffering, and he's again creating the circumstance by which he'll again get a material body and will suffer. Therefore, one should act very responsibly. Not like madmen. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). Then Ṛṣabhadeva instructs, nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This body, although I have got this body, and the dog has got the body, or the hog has got the body, but these bodies are not meant for being spoiled like the dogs and hogs. The hog is also whole day working to find out where is stool. So if you also work whole day and night for our sense gratification, then where is the difference between the hog's life and my life. The human life, human brain should be sober to understand what is the problem of life, why I'm subjected to so many tribulations, how to remedy, how to find out the remedy and that requires tapasya. Tapo divyam (SB 5.5.1). In order to create that brain, it requires a little tapasya. Therefore we are recommending no illicit sex, no meat eating, no intoxication, no gambling.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Hari-śauri: That was when he died? He died then?

Prabhupāda: He was so much insulted. Because every European countries were harassed, they had very bad idea about this Napoleon. Unnecessarily expanding the interest of France. "France and Napoleon, one." Now where is that rascal? France is there. This is going on. British Empire means bring money, hook or crook, in London, and you get the title, "lord," "baron," this... This was their policy. "Sir." All hooligans, thieves, rogues, they were made big, big respectable people. A deposit in the government, this lord family means they have to deposit, say, ten million pounds, like that, and the government takes that money as fixed deposit, and the interest the family will maintain the aristocracy. This is the lord's family. Some way or other you deposit ten million pounds and your family becomes lord's family. So people become mad after money, somehow or other bring money. There was no other culture. In order to introduce their Manchester cloth, how they killed the home industry of India, cloth merchant, this weaver... Just like we are trying. It is very long time, this, the handloom. They cut the finger.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: I have got two daughters and two sons. My wife is also still living.

Interviewer: Is she Kṛṣṇa conscious?

Prabhupāda: Not very much. Naturally women are after worldly opulence.

Interviewer: Was it difficult for you to give up what you had been doing in order to devote full time.

Prabhupāda: No, it is the Vedic system that at a certain age they should give up family connection and completely devote for God consciousness. In the beginning, twenty-five years, he should learn from guru about Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then, if he is able, he does not become a family man, but if he is unable or circumstantially, he may become a family man. So he can remain a family man up to fiftieth year and then he retires from family life. He travels in holy places with his wife, and sometimes he comes home and sometimes he goes home. In this way, when he's practiced to give up family attachment, then the wife goes back home to the care of her elderly children, and the man takes sannyāsa, and he remains alone simply for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is Vedic system.

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...demon came here to try and make Rāmeśvara leave with him.

Devotee: Tried to take him home.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A big demon.

Prabhupāda: In order to kidnap?

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, his father arranged it.

Devotee: His father sent him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A very big demon. And Rāmeśvara preached to him, and what happened?

Rāmeśvara: We made him very embarrassed by preaching to him, he felt very insignificant.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Rāmeśvara Mahārāja called him a jackass (laughter) and many other things.

Prabhupāda: So how he was trying to kidnap you?

Rāmeśvara: Yes, and we tried to prove to him that he was afraid of death and we are not. We are better situated.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda wants to know how did he actually try to kidnap you by telling you, or by his philosophy.

Rāmeśvara: He was trying to convince me that the goal of life is sex life.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. That is the material world.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: Well, would he have to be in the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement to be God conscious?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bali-mardana: Would the candidate, in order for a candidate to be God conscious, would he have to be part of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement?

Prabhupāda: He must know the science, this science, this spiritual science.

Interviewer: To be God conscious, you must...

Prabhupāda: That's a great science.

Bali-mardana: Great science.

Interviewer: How's that?

Bali-mardana: In order to understand God it is a great science.

Interviewer: Do you need to be involved in the Kṛṣṇa movement to be God conscious?

Prabhupāda: You may take part in the movement or not but he must know the science. Movement is preaching...

Interviewer: You mean the Bhagavad-gītā, he must know that or what?

Prabhupāda: Not Bhagavad-gītā or anything, but he must... Just like a book, mathematics, it may be written by different men, but one must be a mathematician.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Not Bhagavad-gītā or anything, but he must... Just like a book, mathematics, it may be written by different men, but one must be a mathematician.

Interviewer: I think what Bali was saying is that if a Kṛṣṇa consciousness member were running for an office then you would get out and vote for him. That he would be God conscious.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Interviewer: But I'm trying to ask does he have to be Kṛṣṇa conscious, involvement, in order to be God conscious?

Prabhupāda: Everyone should be Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Interviewer: Huh?

Prabhupāda: Everyone should be Kṛṣṇa conscious. Not only the... President or not President, everyone, that is the objective of human life. He must know himself what he is.

Interviewer: Now, that leads up to another question I wanted to ask you, do you think that the, one of the attractions of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the rather exotic, Hindu, unusual customs in the West. I mean these customs are unusual in the West and they have a sort of exotic appeal, a fascination for young people.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that ignorance is there both in Western and Eastern. It is the ignorance of the human society.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Our feeling is that we are dealing with the genuine thing, that's all.

Mike Robinson: And can..., if we can go on with that. Everybody seems to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa a lot of times during the day.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the easiest process to become purified, especially given in this age. Because people are so dull that they cannot understand spiritual understanding very easily. So in order to purify him, this chanting is especially offered, that if he chants Hare Kṛṣṇa, then his brain becomes purified to understand spiritual things.

Mike Robinson: You say it's the simplest one. Are there presumably other chants that maybe you yourself use?

Prabhupāda: I don't think there is any other chanting. This is the only chanting. Where is other chanting? You can manufacture so many, but this is the only, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Yes.

Mike Robinson: I see. Let's see, what else? You founded this movement I think it was ten years ago, that's correct. Why was it that you left till you were so late in life before you founded it?

Prabhupāda: I must be prepared, I must be bona fide to preach.

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

Jayatīrtha: That's a fact. Therefore it's the only practical communism.

Prabhupāda: "I shall fight, give my all best, and Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied." So that.... Arjuna for his personal, he did not..., decline, but when he saw that "Kṛṣṇa wants it? All right." That is kṛṣṇa-prema. "Never mind I shall be aggrieved by killing my kinsmen, but Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied. That's all right." This is Kṛṣṇa philosophy. We cannot find this philosophy in the material world that "I shall work, and so many will be satisfied." That is not possible. "If I work, I must be satisfied." So these communists, they will work according to.... Everyone will show that "I have no capacity." So the production will reduce. And they'll have to beg.

Jayatīrtha: They've had to introduce capitalistic type incentives in many of the communist countries in order to induce the people to work.

Prabhupāda: Not capitalistic. This is Kṛṣṇa conscious. They'll have to learn how to love Kṛṣṇa, and for Kṛṣṇa, they are prepared to do anything. That is philosophy. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). That is first class, Vaiṣṇava. Yenātmā suprasīdati. Who knows this verse? Find out this verse.

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

Bhagavān: Sa vai puṁsām paro dharmo (SB 1.2.6). First Canto. "The first-class occupation is that which brings love of God. When uninterested, unmotivated, it brings satisfaction."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Who will understand this philosophy?

Harikeśa:

sa vai puṁsām paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yayātmā suprasīdati

(SB 1.2.6)

"The supreme occupation, dharma, for all humanity is that by which men can attain to loving devotional service unto the transcendent Lord. Such devotional service must be unmotivated and uninterrupted in order to completely satisfy the self."

Prabhupāda: So the communist teaching that "You love Lenin," and the capitalist teaching that "You love Washington," so nobody's satisfied. Unless the love comes to Kṛṣṇa, there is no question of satisfied.

Jayatīrtha: There's no reciprocation.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, there must be defect because the love is reposed in some defective or imperfect personality. It may be Lenin or it may be Washington. It doesn't matter. He's imperfect. Love is there. Otherwise why so many people are working? But because it is misplaced, they are not satisfied. Therefore it is stated, yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. Adhokṣaje, this word, is used. God.... They may say that "Where is God?" And therefore the word is adhokṣaje: "beyond your sense perception." Everything is within sense perception. So therefore this very word is used, that "You cannot see, you cannot perceive, but still, you have to love Him." Adhokṣaje. They say, therefore, that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is some ideal, imagination, Kṛṣṇa. They think.... They say, I have an imaginary form of Kṛṣṇa, a stone, and "Unnecessarily they are wasting their time, loving Kṛṣṇa." What is their theory? You know that?

Morning Walk Around Farm -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: (break).... A small potato, in the śukta you gave it?

Harikeśa: No, that was radish.

Devotee (1): See from the garden many tomatoes and squash. Cauliflower is coming also.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...a large stock of water.

Devotee (1): Yes. There is lots of water underground, but it requires great equipment to bring it up in order to water all the land.

Prabhupāda: What is the difficulty?

Devotee (1): We have only the previous pump which was here before, and it's not strong enough to water everything. So we need to install a new pump to get more water.

Prabhupāda: This land ours?

Hari-śauri: Yes. Where that hump is on the brown field, up to that, where that tree is. Most of our land extends this way.

Bhagavān: Our land is mostly here.

Devotee (1): We have just taken barley from this field, Śrīla Prabhupāda, many grains.

Devotee (2): This is some, some buckwheat barley.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...Castle?

Devotee (1): This is what they call a water castle. The water goes up and there's a big reservoir, and then by pressure it distributes to the houses.

Prabhupāda: So it is not being used?

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Harikeśa: You once said in Vṛndāvana that the Marwaris, they don't bother going to school because they can make a lot of money by sitting by the phone and just pay a few rupees a day and any educated fool can do the work.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they do that. They are employing in their factory, big, big chemist, big, big physicist, engineer and so on, but they do not bother. They are paying thirty thousand rupees per month salary, Birla. Expert, imported from foreign country, but their sons are never troubled. They know how to utilize that worker of thirty thousand rupees per month and to earn thirty lakhs from him. Why shall he waste his time? He knows how to they earn. They pay a man thirty thousand and through him earn thirty lakhs. Actually, in order to make a balanced society, the varṇāśrama-dharma is very important, cooperation. So these things are meant for the śūdras, and brāhmaṇas are not meant for this.

Meeting with Italian Printer -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Translator: He says thank you for this first meeting, I hope we will meet again, and when we do I will make these books even look nicer.

Prabhupāda: Very good. Do that. That will be service to Kṛṣṇa. The more you...

Translator: He says he's making the effort in order to know better.

Prabhupāda: That is nice.

Bhagavān: Tomorrow we have the schedule of events. At nine o'clock we begin with the initiations, and we'll have the purification with water, and Pṛthu-putra Mahārāja is going to give the lecture on the ten offenses. Then everyone will come back in at ten o'clock and we'll have the bathing beginning then. And that, Jayatīrtha and I figured'd be about an hour. So we thought that perhaps towards the end of that, maybe around quarter to eleven, you'd like to come down and either participate in the bathing or give lecture at that time. And then afterwards the Deities will go back on the altar and we'll give the names outside. Is that all right?

Jayatīrtha: You don't have to come outside for giving the names.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Give him this garland

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, this is another admirer from Switzerland.

Hari-śauri: He can put it in some water, then it will blossom. (end)

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: If you want me to do like you, I also want you to do like me. You cannot find fault with me by saying that I am not acting like you, sense gratification. If you are acting in your way, I am acting in my way.

Jñānagamya: It's relative.

Prabhupāda: But if you want philosophy, the aim of life, the destination of life, then we can talk, what is the destination of life, what is required. If you criticize me, then I can criticize you also.

Jñānagamya: Then we must take it to the absolute platform in order to actually have a sincere argument, to make a sincere decision.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no end of such things. Therefore unless one accepts a person guru, there is no need of talking. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Unless one accepts somebody as guru, the instruction will not be fruitful. Just like Arjuna is accepting Kṛṣṇa as guru. So long he was talking as friend, it was not effective. Arjuna therefore decided... Find out that verse, kārpaṇya-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Haṁsadūta: Big country, very poor.

Hari-śauri: Moscow.

Haṁsadūta: In that city, one has to wait for years in order to get an apartment.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Haṁsadūta: Yes, Anatol was telling me, that boy Ānanda-śānti. His whole family was living in that..., but you did not see his room. His room is very small, maybe two times the size of your kitchen and whole family was living in that. Mother, grandmother, father, him, and when Mandākinī went there she was also living there.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Haṁsadūta: Very small.

Prabhupāda: Pigeonhole.

Haṁsadūta: Pigeonhole, really pigeonhole.

Prabhupāda: So why this is?

Haṁsadūta: Only one room. Because there is no, economically they're...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation About Gurukula -- November 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Not continually. They should be given a recess ten minutes. Then again come to the class. And a class should not be more than forty-five minutes. One class should not be continued more than forty-five minutes, then ten minutes recess, then begin another class.

Jagadīśa: For the English program it is required, in order for them to have enough time to read and write, then they would require an hour and half, so they would have two classes.

Prabhupāda: In the meantime, one and a half? You give ten minutes recess.

Jagadīśa: And during the recess what should they do?

Prabhupāda: Nothing. They'll be free. Nothing to do. Recess means nothing to do. That is brain, I mean to say, rest. All continually you cannot do that. That is not good. Utmost, forty minutes or forty-five minutes. Then give them ten minutes' freedom. Then begin another. Not more than forty to forty-five minutes at a time, reading, writing.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But as soon as we say, "Oh, this is Hindu idea"—reject immediately. This is science, and they are taking "Hindu idea."

Indian man (2): The problem is that identification only. Otherwise it is universal philosophy.

Prabhupāda: It is universal, but they are taking it as Indian.

Indian man (2): In order to identify that, Vedic, let's say Indian, actually that is not Indian.

Prabhupāda: No, whatever it may be. Knowledge is knowledge. It may be Indian or American. It doesn't matter. Just like university. Some student from India go to university in America to study higher knowledge. So that means that because he has gone to America, that is American knowledge. Knowledge is knowledge. So they should take on this background, but they are thinking that we are spoiling their children, brainwashing, controlling the mind, because against their principle, against their uncivilized way of life: meat-eating, illicit sex, intoxication. This is uncivilized life. Why a man, civilized man, shall eat meat? He can prepare so many nice things. He has learned how to produce food, food grains. When they are uncivilized—there is no food; they do not know how to grow food—they can eat animal in the jungle. But if after becoming civilized, if you are eating the same thing, then what is the difference between civilization and not civilization? You have learned. And especially in your America you can get all nice foodstuff. You have got sufficient grains, sufficient fruits, sufficient vegetables, sufficient... Everything sufficient. Why you should eat meat? This is uncivilized life. They could not give up the uncivilized way of life. And when you teach that "You become civilized. Give up this all nonsense. Don't eat." "Oh, it is brainwashing." You see? We are teaching them to become civilized, and they are taking it brainwashing.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: The point is that... You can explain in this way, that goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ (Bs. 5.37). Kṛṣṇa is in the Goloka planet which is far, far away from our planet, but still He is everywhere. That is the difference. That you cannot imagine. In our material knowledge you cannot imagine that. But that is the fact. Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati, tad aham aśnāmi: (BG 9.26) "Anyone offering Me in devotion patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam, I eat." Now, Kṛṣṇa is living far, far away in the Goloka planet. How He can eat? That is your imagining. But Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes, I do." That is Kṛṣṇa. Although He is far, far away, He is within your heart. That you cannot imagine, how it is possible. That is your material knowledge. But you have to accept from the statement of śāstra that although He is far, far away, within your heart. Aṇḍāntara-stha-para... He is within the atom also. So that you cannot imagine. That requires a different knowledge, Vedic knowledge. The material knowledge will not help you, but you cannot imagine. You have to accept Vedic knowledge. What is stated in the Vedas, that you have to accept. That's all. Otherwise there is no possibility. Therefore to understand Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's activities you have to learn from Kṛṣṇa. That is Bhagavad-gītā. You cannot manufacture your knowledge. That is not... Because you are defective—your senses are imperfect—so whatever knowledge you get through your senses, that is all imperfect. You cannot get perfect knowledge by your imperfect senses. That is not possible. Therefore the Vedic injunction is tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In order to learn that transcendental science you have to approach a guru who knows it.

Preparation for Gita Pratisthana -- December 9, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So in order to release ourself from the sinful reaction of sinful activity, we must perform yajña. And in this age the easiest process of yajña is saṅkīrtana-yajña. (long pause) So what are the problem?

Jagadīśa: Under "problems" are... There are some general problems such as taxes.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jagadīśa: Taxes. Taxation.

Prabhupāda: Hm, taxation. So that is... You have created problem. When you transgress the laws of nature, this, there is shortage of supply. And the government, on this plea they will tax to mitigate your miseries. Actually they will not be able to mitigate your miseries, but on the plea of your miseries they will levy taxes and divide amongst themselves. So this is another way of punishment because the government is your government. Because you are rascal, so you elect some, another rascal. And they invent ways of rascaldom to mitigate your miseries. To avoid taxation means you become good man and you select your ruler, good men. Then there will be no taxation.

Press Conference -- December 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Guest (6): In order to establish the āśrama will you be spending part of the year here?

Prabhupāda: Yes, I have got so many centers that if I stay in each center three days, the whole year is finished. What can be done?

Guest (5): Swamiji, how many āśramas and things you have?

Prabhupāda: 102, big, big āśramas. And we are feeding twenty thousand men daily without any income. The God sends. Yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22). We are spending twelve lakhs of rupees per month in New York and similarly other centers.

Guest (6): Twelve lakhs also in Delhi center only?

Prabhupāda: New York. New York.

Guest (5): Where do you get these funds?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guest (5): Where do you get these funds?

Prabhupāda: God sends.

Guest (5): God?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (5): But he's not sending funds, the god, planning commissioner.

Prabhupāda: Because he is not devotee. How He'll send? You feed your son, not the outsider.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Take for example satyagraha. Satyagraha... What is the satyagraha? That is the child's play. Just like a child, he wants something. You are not giving him. He'll cry. He'll force you. So is there any śāstric injunction? Now these things have become popular. Real thing rejected, and some false thing presented by childish attempt, that is accepted.

Guest (1): But sir, would you not agree that in order to appeal to the masses or to make masses into any movement...

Prabhupāda: No, it is... You see... It is not... If you want to become an educated man or if you want to give first-class education, it is not for the mass. It is for the leader. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ (BG 3.21). If the leaders are educated, then others will follow. But if the leaders are not educated, what the others will do? That is the difficulty. And the so-called leaders, without being educated, they become leader.

Guest (1): That's why all this trouble.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They manufacture some idea.

Guest (1): Which has nothing to do with the...

Prabhupāda: Nothing to do... It is spoiled. If you manufacture idea, because you are imperfect... How you can manufacture ideas? Four deficiencies are there, so if you manufacture with deficiency of your own person, then what will be the knowledge?

Guest (1): The result will also be deficiency.

Prabhupāda: That is the difficulty. Our knowledge... Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ. So who can be more śreṣṭha than Kṛṣṇa? Than Vyāsadeva, Nārada, the ācāryas? But they will not follow. They will manufacture some idea. That is the difficulty in India at the present moment. Some upstart leaders, they have misled them. That is the difficulty. And we are poor fellows. If we say the right thing, they'll not take it.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is real noncooperation. (laughter) What this public noncooperation will do. They are simply clerks. Some of them may be high-court judges, but no responsible post was given.

Guest (1): And all these atrocities were committed by Indians upon Indians at the orders of the British.

Prabhupāda: All the big, big secretaries, under-secretaries, governors... There was no minister, all European, only some clerks. So what is the use of clerks' noncooperation? They didn't care. And in order to pat Gandhi, the governor sometimes used to invite him. "Sir, you are so powerful. Kindly stop this movement." And Gandhi became puffed-up that the Britishers are very afraid of him. "No! I shall do." And Subash Bose insisting, "In this way, they'll never go by this nonviolent."

Guest (1): Human nature as it is, you can't... Unless there is some sort of a compulsion, whether in spiritual...

Prabhupāda: And in politics, might is right.

Guest (1): Of course. Survival of the fittest.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In politics you cannot become...

Guest (1): A sādhu. It is absurd. (laughing)

Prabhupāda: That is absurd.

Room Conversation -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Āsana, soft āsana. First of all, this kuśāsana, then the deerskin and then one...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Soft cloth. This will be excellent because nobody else is teaching yoga this way.

Prabhupāda: No. So they will sit down and perpendicularly. Perpendicularly, if you sit in this way, then you will automatically you become perfect yogi. Automatically. This should be practiced. In every class they should sit down with like this, like this, and they will not close the eyes but half-closed and see here.

Hari-śauri: Staring at the tip of the nose.

Jagadīśa: They supposed to look cross-eyed? In order to look at the tip of the nose...

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Jagadīśa: ...you have to look cross-eyed?

Prabhupāda: Why cross? You see, just easy, simply. That's all. This...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They can sit straight and also look.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This has to be practiced. And then they should be given lesson on six or seven verses very elaborately, and they will hear.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Roof Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, let him. That you have to practice, how to use kāma, krodha. That is described by Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura. Kṛṣṇa-sevā kāmārpaṇe. Kāma means you have a strong desire to do something. That is kāma. So convert it, this kāma desire, for Kṛṣṇa's activities. Kṛṣṇa-sevā kāmārpaṇe. Krodha bhakta-dveṣi-jane. And persons who are envious of the devotees, you become angry upon them. You have got this quality, kāma, krodha, lobha, but you can utilize it. Just like Hanumān. He became very angry, and he set fire in the Lanka. Unless one is very angry, he cannot do that. But that krodha was applied to the demon. Krodha bhakta-dveṣi-jane. So we can utilize kāma, krodha, moha, bewilderment. When we cannot find out a bhakta, then we should be bewildered. Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvam. So therefore bhakti process means that everything has to be purified. Krodha, Hanumān's krodha to set fire Laṅkā, it is purified krodha. But they cannot understand the krodha, how it is purified. But krodha can be purified. When it is bhakta-dveṣi-jane... Those who are envious of God and His devotees, upon them you should be always angry. "No, I have become a bhakta. I cannot become..." Caitanya Mahāprabhu showed by His example. He said, tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā. But when Nityānanda Prabhu was injured, He became so angry, He immediately said, "Bring my cakra. I shall kill the Jagāi-Mādhāi." So at that time He's not tṛṇād api sunīcena. That is krodha bhakta-dveṣi-jane. So we have this kāma, krodha, moha, everything, whatever sense activity we have got. When they are utilized for Kṛṣṇa, then it is purified. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena (CC Madhya 19.170). Now there is fight... Just like political fight. In the political fight both the parties, they are trying to get supremacy of their own sense gratification. But here the fight, Rāma-Rāvaṇa..., Hanumān's krodha was not for himself. He did not want the Laṅkā kingdom. But because Rāmacandra wanted that "This man should be punished," he cooperated: "Yes." So this is spiritual. In this way, when we purify all our activities, all our sensual activities, then it is right. Otherwise... Just like Arjuna. He purified his senses. A Vaiṣṇava is naturally nonviolent, but in order to satisfy Kṛṣṇa he fought. That is purified. So we have to purify. Our activities cannot be stopped. That is not possible.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: What he is for them?

Girirāja: He is their municipal councillor. He is the representative for this area in the municipal corporation, elected. So actually this came up before and at that time we met the municipal commissioner that they are trying to put this condition. So he agreed that this should be a, you know, decided by the court or by some third party and not, he will not do anything to change the status quo by forcing us. So we have to put that in the letter. And (break) ...hitch. Not a hitch exactly but there's this urban land ceiling that anyone who has more than 500 square yards property, that comes under the ceiling. So we are exempt because we are a charitable trust and apart from that, in the final plan, most of the land will be built up, it won't be vacant. But in order to get the sanction, we have to get either an N.O.C. (No Objection Certificate) that we are exempt from the ceiling or an exemption to get the N.O.C. So we have to meet some higher official. So I have to finalise it but I'm supposed to contact the architect and we have to go and see about this. Actually the management is so bad there that they have made this requirement that any new building, you have to get N.O.C. regarding the land ceiling. But so far they have not given one N.O.C. for land ceiling because they are not yet decided what is the policy to give the N.O.C. So they simply are piling up the applications until they decide their policy. So first we will try to get exemption that we don't require this N.O.C. Then if we fail in that then I suppose we have to meet the minister and ask him to give us the N.O.C.

Prabhupāda: So why not meet the minister?

Girirāja: Huh?

Prabhupāda: Why not meet the minister?

Girirāja: Yes. We've met him once before because he's... The municipality is under him. So when we met the Chief Minister to get these things straightened out, so at that time he spoke to this Urban Affairs Minister. So he knows us, he's quite intelligent personally. But I think if... First we'll meet the city engineer, he's next to the commissioner and just say that we don't want to have to get this N.O.C. So if he removes that condition then the whole problem is solved. Do you think we should go straight to the minister?

Prabhupāda: Harassment.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Harassment.

Girirāja: Oh, yes, completely. Their whole office, the papers are piled to the ceiling and people just waste hours (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: If there is ceiling, then we can divide the land amongst ourselves.

Girirāja: But that also they have blocked in the sense that in order to sell now that the ceiling is there, in order to sell your land you have to get another N.O.C. to sell it.

Prabhupāda: Then, I cannot sell, I cannot use it.

Girirāja: That's what I'm saying. They make it impossible. They say they want the country to develop quickly but they make it impossible to develop.

Prabhupāda: Today I think fasting.

Indian Lady: Fasting.

Prabhupāda: I have no appetite, I could not eat even breakfast.

Indian Lady: So I will be here if you want something, you can call for me.

Prabhupāda: Mm. For the time being, no appetite. You can soak some little chipped rice in water.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Sat-saṅga is continuously coming in contact with such gurus like you or, I mean, reading that śāstras, also is a sat-saṅga.

Prabhupāda: But reading... By reading, you cannot understand. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). That is also vidhilīn: "In order to understand that science, he must go to guru."

Dr. Patel: But, sir, instead of reading no books of knowledge, if you read Bhāgavata or Bhagavad-gītā, it is a sort of a sat-saṅga, and that develops. Someday he'll go to a guru. He'll find out.

Prabhupāda: No, no, if he reads Bhāgavata, he is not ordinary man.

Dr. Patel: He is on the way up.

Prabhupāda: If he reads Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, he is not ordinary man.

Dr. Patel: He's a sat-saṅgi.

Prabhupāda: Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-samvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ (SB 3.25.25). Rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ. Unless you discuss Bhāgavata, Bhagavad-gītā, with sat-saṅga, devotees, it does not become relishable. Therefore he's not attached. Tad-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavaḥ. In another verse.... Na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo pragṛṇīta karhicit (SB 1.5.10). He may read one literature very decoratively written, very interesting, but there is no discussion about the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Yad vacaḥ citra-padam, very decorative. Na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo pragṛṇīta karhicit: (SB 1.5.10) "But there is no glorification of the Lord." Tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham: "Such kind of literature is enjoyable by such persons who are like crows."

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Is dangerous. (laughs)

Rāmeśvara: ...is dangerous because it makes you stop thinking about so many other things. That is their...

Prabhupāda: That is our victory. That is victory because Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura said that viṣaya viṣānale, dibā-niśi hiyā jwale, taribare nā koinu upāy, golokera prema-dhana, hari-nāma saṅkīrtana, rati nā janmilo kene tāy: "This material world is the burning fire of anxiety. So in order to get rid of it, we have to take shelter of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, which is imported from the spiritual sky." That is a fact. So as soon as you take shelter of Hare Kṛṣṇa, naturally we are relieved from this blazing fire of material existence. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Finished. Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. Mahā-dāvāgni, this fire of material existence, finished. That's a fact. So they have pointed out. This circumstance, it is good. Yes. That is the position. Yes. Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommends that. In order to get rid of this blazing fire, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21): chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Rāmeśvara: Anyway, this goes on, but then what they're saying is there has to be a very big case where a cult leader of Hare Kṛṣṇa is sentenced to jail. So they're writing to say that "Now we have to find lawyers who will be willing to take up this cause very inexpensively."

Prabhupāda: That means there is no money.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Trivikrama: No, but the priests nowadays, they don't always wear the collar, because they want to feel comfortable with the people. They dress...

Rāmeśvara: They say "If people knew you were the Hare Kṛṣṇa, they would not give you so much money."

Haṁsadūta: Even the police, in order to catch a criminal, they sometimes go in disguise. They act as criminals, in order to catch a criminal. So we also have to do that. We have to act like demons sometimes.

Rāmeśvara: (laughing) To catch a demon.

Dr. Patel: These boys are very clever. (laughs)

Jagadīśa: Vāmanadeva also went in disguise. And Kṛṣṇa, Bhīma, and Arjuna went in disguise. They killed Jarāsandha.

Haṁsadūta: In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you wrote about Prahlāda Mahārāja, they tried to find out "Where are these Vaiṣṇavas? They must be coming in disguise to teach the boys Hare Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: What is the wrong there?

Dr. Patel: (indistinct) American gangsters. You can't be gangsters. They will be gangsters.

Trivikrama: For Kṛṣṇa we can be anything.

Dr. Patel: You can't be gangsters. There is some difference between them and you.

Rāmeśvara: This scholar from Harvard University, he's explained it very nicely. He says that today Christianity and Judaism are materialistic, and the people who follow those religions have misunderstood their own faith, and the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is reminding them. And it is the work of God.

Prabhupāda: How nice he has...

Rāmeśvara: His name is Dr. Harvey Cox. He is widely known all over the world as a leading Christian theologian. He has written many books. And he said that Christianity today is synonymous with profit, material gain, accumulation, performance, material success. So it has lost or it has forgotten its original message. And it takes something as exotic as the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement from India to remind a Christian that there's another way of life, based on simplicity and truth and spirituality.

Prabhupāda: He's right. And he's a very important man.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: So that means that in the beginning we may be very powerful in government, but still, the masses of people will be karmīs still.

Prabhupāda: No. You can introduce in such a way that they will become devotees. Suppose in big, big factories we shall introduce this prasāda distribution and chanting. They'll immediately be popular. Everything will be... Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12).

Jagadīśa: In order for us to get power, by that time the illumination and knowledge of Kṛṣṇa consciousness will be widespread.

Rāmeśvara: That's what I'm wondering. I was thinking that it wouldn't be. There would be...

Jagadīśa: Otherwise how can we get through? What is the use of having one politician?

Rāmeśvara: Many revolutions have been victorious with a very small minority of people behind them because they're so well organized. Russia, Germany, all these revolutions.

Prabhupāda: That's a fact.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: No... Suppose a military dress... Then there are different dresses. When it is understood properly, dress is immaterial. The military dress... Everyone knows that their business is to kill. That does not mean they are hated. Similarly, people see, and when they understand, that is the process.

Jagadīśa: In the Kṛṣṇa book, when Kamsa was being a little lenient with Vasudeva, Nārada Muni thought to speed things up, so he instigated Kamsa to become frightened about Vasudeva and Devaki and their children. So similarly, it appears that in order to speed up Kṛṣṇa consciousness's infiltration and overtaking this materialistic society, that all of these brainwashing charges and...

Prabhupāda: It has got... The chanting has got spiritual power. That will rectify everything. Even there is misunderstanding, it will be rectified. That is spiritual power.

Rāmeśvara: The chanting for the mass of people is by reading your books.

Prabhupāda: That will rectify everything. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). All misunderstanding gone away.

Rāmeśvara: We have to be very clever.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Rāmeśvara: In America it requires being very clever to get them to read your books. Even if they buy millions of books, there's no guarantee that they're reading it. So we have to make other kinds of propaganda.

Prabhupāda: No, at least it is expected they will read: "What is this book I have purchased? Let me see." Reading, of course, meant for intelligent class.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: Even our own men are taking our mission more seriously now that these appreciations have come. They are understanding more how this is the only hope for the whole world, very grave work.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact. That's a fact. Lokasyājānato vidvāṁś cakre sāt... Find out this verse. We are giving a light which was unknown in the world. That's a fact. Lokasyājānato vidvāṁś cakre sātvata... Anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje (SB 1.7.6). This is the secret of making the world happy. Anārtha. Simply they have created unwanted things, and people are suffering. So in order to cut down these anarthas, unnecessary, unwanted thing, this is the only way. That is stated in the Bhāgavata. First part? No, no, it is no Bhagavad-gītā. It is the Bhāgavatam, First part.

Hari-śauri: Oh. We don't have it. We haven't got a First Canto.

Prabhupāda: Anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād.

Rāmeśvara: It's like you say. It's a new culture. Our art paintings one day will be seen all over the world. Just like now they hang art paintings in all government buildings.

Prabhupāda: It was written for this purpose. People are suffering by their concocted culture, suffering. And Guru Mahārāja wanted this. Actually it is his mission, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. But I am... I have tried sincerely. I am not qualified, but only qualification is that I tried to do the best. That's all, that much qualification. I had faith in their program, and I thought, "I shall try my best, whatever capacity I have got." That's all. Yasya deve parā bhaktir tathā deve tathā gurau (ŚU 6.23). Little confident that "Why? If Caitanya Mahāprabhu wants it, my Guru Mahārāja wants it, why it will not be successful? Let me try." That's all. Mukhaṁ karoti vācālaṁ panguṁ laṅghayate girim: "A dumb man can become orator." (laughs) It is like that. I never thought that they will praise so much. What it is possible? Mukhaṁ karoti vācālam. (laughs) "A dumb man can become orator, and a lame man can cross over the mountain." Yat kṛpā tam ahaṁ vande śrī-guruṁ dīna-tāraṇam. By the mercy of guru it is possible. So these are not stories. They are fact. That is spiritual life. All right.

Rāmeśvara: Jaya Prabhupāda.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: While sometimes the movies that are demonstrated in the plane, I close my eyes. I do not like to see them because that impression carries. It is a very disturbing fact to me.

Hari-śauri: Yes. It's very disturbing. Those night flights are horrible. You can't sleep or anything.

Rāmeśvara: Even this movie that we have just been involved with called "Audrey Rose," about reincarnation, in order to make it popular, they have made it very, very frightening. In order to get people to come, they have to have that element of terror.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Rāmeśvara: So they concoct different arrangements. Because people are willing to spend money to torture their own minds. No one is happy. They are very disturbed when they leave the movie theater. They are frightened. And at night they cannot sleep peacefully after seeing such movies. And they are paying money to go to these things.

Prabhupāda: And again they will take tranquilizer. Just see (laughing) how thankless task. Create something disturbing and again try to... Yesterday some men came, the Communistic temple.

Room Conversation with Film Producer about Krsna Lila -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: He pointed out this, that "He came to establish religious principles. How is that He danced with other's wife in midnight?" This question was raised by Parīkṣit Mahārāja to Śukadeva Gosvāmī, and how he has answered? Read it.

Hari-śauri: Says, "There is a distinction between Lord Kṛṣṇa's dancing with the gopīs and the ordinary dancing of living entities within the material world. In order to clear up further misconceptions about the rasa dance and the affairs of Kṛṣṇa and the gopīs, Mahārāja Parīkṣit, the hearer of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, told Śukadeva Gosvāmī: 'Kṛṣṇa appeared on the earth to establish the regulative principles of religion and to curb the predominance of irreligion. But the behavior of Kṛṣṇa and the gopīs might encourage irreligious principles in the material world. I am simply surprised that He would act in such a way and join the company of others' wives in the dead of night.' "

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Room Conversation with Film Producer about Krsna Lila -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Hari-śauri: "This statement of Parīkṣit Mahārāja's was very much appreciated by Śukadeva Gosvāmī. The answer anticipates the abominable activities of the Māyāvādī impersonalists, who place themselves in the position of Kṛṣṇa and enjoy the company of young girls and women. The basic Vedic injunctions never allow a person to enjoy sex with any woman except one's own wife. Kṛṣṇa's appreciation of the gopīs appeared to be distinctly in violation of these rules. Mahārāja Parīkṣit understood the total situation from Śukadeva Gosvāmī, yet to further clear the transcendental nature of Kṛṣṇa and the gopīs in the rasa dance, he expressed his surprise. This is very important in order to check the unrestricted association with women by the prākṛta-sahajiyā. In his statement, Mahārāja Parīkṣit has used several important..."

Prabhupāda: In Vṛndāvana this prākṛta-sahajiyā, they are making bhajana that a man, he thinks that "I am Kṛṣṇa"; another woman...

Guest (2): That is Rādhā.

Prabhupāda: "Rādhā." This rascaldom is going on.

Guest (1): Others are gopīs. It was also in Orissa also previously.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Room Conversation with Film Producer about Krsna Lila -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: This is described in the śāstra. If one hears of the Yadu-vaṁśa, he becomes purified. And Kṛṣṇa is addressed, Yadupati. Then?

Hari-śauri: "Having taken birth in that family, how could Kṛṣṇa have been induced even by the gopīs? It is concluded therefore that it was not possible for Kṛṣṇa to do anything abominable. But Mahārāja Parīkṣit was in doubt as to why Kṛṣṇa acted in that way. What was the real purpose? Another word Mahārāja Parīkṣit used when he addressed Śukadeva Gosvāmī is suvrata, which means to take a vow to enact pious activities. Śukadeva Gosvāmī was an educated brahmacārī, and under the circumstance it was not possible for him to indulge in sex. This is strictly prohibited for brahmacārīs, and what to speak of a brahmacārī like Śukadeva Gosvāmī. But because the circumstances of the rasa dance were very suspect, Mahārāja Parīkṣit inquired for clarification from Śukadeva Gosvāmī. Śukadeva Gosvāmī immediately replied that transgressions of religious principles by the supreme controller testify to His great power. For example, fire can consume any abominable thing. That is the manifestation of the supremacy of fire. Similarly, the sun can absorb water from urine or from stool, and the sun is not polluted. Rather, due to the influence of sunshine the polluted, contaminated place becomes disinfected and sterilized. One may also argue that since Kṛṣṇa is the supreme authority, His activities should be followed. In answer to this question, Śukadeva Gosvāmī has very clearly said, īśvarāṇām, or the supreme controller, may sometimes violate His instructions, but this is only possible for the controller Himself and not for the followers. Unusual and uncommon activities by the controller can never be imitated. Śukadeva Gosvāmī warns that the conditioned followers who are not actually in control should never even imagine imitating the uncommon activities of the controller. A Māyāvādī philosopher may falsely claim to be God or Kṛṣṇa, but he cannot actually act like Kṛṣṇa. He can persuade his followers to falsely imitate the rasa dance, but he is unable to lift Govardhana Hill. We have many experiences in the past of Māyāvādī rascals deluding their followers by posing themselves as Kṛṣṇa in order to enjoy rasa līlā. In many instances they were checked by the government, arrested and punished. In Orissa, Ṭhākura Bhaktivinoda also punished the so-called incarnation of Viṣṇu who was imitating rasa-līlā with young girls. There were many complaints against him. At that time Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was a magistrate, and the government deputed him to deal with that rascal, and he punished him very severely. The rasa-līlā dance cannot be imitated by anyone. Śukadeva Gosvāmī warns that one should not even think of imitating it. He specifically mentions that if out of foolishness one tries to imitate Kṛṣṇa's rasa dance he will be killed, just like a person who wants to imitate Lord Śiva's drinking of an ocean of poison. Lord Śiva drank an ocean of poison and kept it within his throat. The poison made his throat turn blue, and therefore Lord Śiva is called nīla-kaṇṭha. But if any ordinary person tries to imitate Lord Śiva by drinking poison or by smoking gañja, he is sure be vanquished and will die within a very short time. Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa's dealing with the gopīs was under special circumstances."

Prabhupāda: It is not for public show. That is the idea.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: That is my duty. You are trying to brain, my brainwash; I am trying yours. That is going on. That is the tussle. You are trying your best. It is a wrestling. You are trying your strength; I am trying my strength. That is... Otherwise where there is fight? There is no question of fight. You don't agree with me; I don't agree with you. You have got right to not agree with me; I have got right not to agree with you. Now let us settle.

Hari-śauri: Well, the thing Rāmeśvara Mahārāja was saying was that they're bringing all these psychiatrists and psychologists in to make so many statements.

Prabhupāda: Let them bring. We have got our own psychiatrists.

Hari-śauri: He was saying in order to defeat them, we have to bring in other psychiatrists and psychologists.

Prabhupāda: The psychiatrists mean... Do you mean to say whatever they will say, we have to accept?

Satsvarūpa: Well, they're considered authorities.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Satsvarūpa: The foolish public considers them authorities of behavior and the mind.

Prabhupāda: Then everyone, a psychiatrist's recommendation. Even a sane man can be proved that he's a madman by the recommendation of psychiatrist.

Room Conversation -- January 28, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That's all right...

Pṛthu-putra: They don't go away from Śrīla Prabhupāda's teaching. On the opposite, we try to learn more and to be more qualified in order to teach spiritually on the case...

Prabhupāda: But no, no..., that, that... They're overintelligent. Just like Nitāi has become overintelligent. "Please bless me I may find out a bona fide guru." He has written me.

Pṛthu-putra: (laughs) That's craziness.

Prabhupāda: He has written me that. He is asking my blessing to find out another bona fide guru. Such a rascal he is. If his present guru is not bona fide, why he's asking blessing from him? Such a rascal. He has written me.

Pṛthu-putra: This is nonsense proposition.

Prabhupāda: No, you say, but he is such a learned, overlearned, he's asking somebody blessing who is not bona fide to find out bona fide. Just see his position. If you are seeking a bona fide spiritual master, why you asking the blessing of non-bona fide? (laughs) I could simply laugh, that's all, that such a rascal... He was doing some tangible service, editing work. He left everything. Now he's going to find out bona fide spiritual..., for bhajanānanda. Therefore, asat-saṅga-tyāgī ei vaiṣṇava. The first thing is... It is enunciated by... Whether this man is attached to woman? Then finish, all bona fide finish. As soon as one is attached to woman, either legal or illegal, his all qualification finished. Asat eka strī-saṅgī. And these rascals have derived meaning that "One who has one strī only, he's asat. One who has more than one strī, he's sat." They have interpreted like that. Asat eka strī-saṅgī. Kṛṣṇa mean... Number one asat is strī-saṅgī, and number two asat is who is not devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is the meaning. But they have taken, eka strī-saṅgī: "One who keeps only one woman, he's asat. One who keeps more than one woman, he is sat. So we are keeping more than one woman." This is going on. (break) Nobody has seen. Somebody came. He... They only saw. And there are other devotees; they could not see. He's so advanced, only he is, he could see. This is bogus.

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: Polynesian actually.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is actually a type of Chinese people. That, our Bali-mardana's wife, belongs to that stock. But in order to elevate her she represents that "I belong to the Japanese." (laughs) but I have studied. She belongs to that Hawaii. Maybe her father or somebody was respectable or rich man in that Hawaii, but she does not belong to Japan. She is that Hawaiian-Chinese stock. So the United States, they have included this and going on nice. Their position is now secure. Nobody can invade. The Japanese tried to invade Pearl Harbor. Then finished. Atom bomb. The atom bomb was dropped on account of their attempt to invade this Pearl Harbor. In Honolulu there is Pearl Harbor.

Room Conversation -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Pṛthu-putra: They say, "No, He's not restricted. But when He has to reveal Himself He reveals to the prophet. This is the reason why Muhammad received the instruction from God."

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That's all right. But you cannot say that He does not come to showing mercy to a prophet. He may come if He likes. That is mission. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnām (BG 4.8). One who is actually devotee, prophet, he's always anxious to see what they (indistinct). So in order to favor them, (Sanskrit). What is their proposition?

Pṛthu-putra: In the story of Koran they say Muhammad once asked to see God, and God's answer was, "You're not able to see Me."

Prabhupāda: That's all right. At least he could hear Him. So that is possible. Not that necessarily one has to see Him, but he can hear Him. Now, you have said that Muhammad heard Him, so God can speak. So you can hear. So where is the objection?

Pṛthu-putra: No objection.

Prabhupāda: Muhammad... If somebody can hear Him, somebody can see Him also. You cannot deny because they're all senses. To hear God means with my senses we appreciate Him. Similarly, eyes are also one of the senses. Now if somebody sees Him, where is the objection? If somebody can hear Him, where is the objection if somebody can see Him? Reasonably, there is no objection. In this way... So God is omnipotent. If some of His prophet devotees wants to hear Him, he can do that, if wants to see Him, he can do that.

Room Conversation -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That's his... He doesn't come down. He's already there. He does not come down. Just like the sun. The sun does not come down before me, but you can see him. In this way give them enlightenment. Sun doesn't require to come down, but sun is so bright and so prominent that you can see. Similarly, God doesn't require to come down. He's already present. Simply we have to make our eyes to see Him. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena (Bs. 5.38). When one is competent enough by developing his love for God, he can see always. God is visible everywhere. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham (Bs. 5.35). Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). He's everywhere. So there is no difficulty to see. But simply one has to possess such purified eyes to see Him. Otherwise He can be seen anywhere. He can be seen within the atom even. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham. That is God. He is present everywhere, but we must have the purified eyes to see, we must have the purified ears to hear Him. Otherwise God is everywhere.

Pṛthu-putra: So in order to purify their vision, chanting and prasāda will be sufficient.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pṛthu-putra: We should not talk about following rules and things like this.

Prabhupāda: No. When there is talk, then you can talk reasonably, that "If God can be heard, God can be seen also, God can be touched also, to a different prophet."

Pṛthu-putra: Only to the very determined and serious person we can ask them to give up meat-eating and things like this in this kind of countries?

Prabhupāda: No. No. Don't say about that directly.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: He was a scientist?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He was called naturalist. Yes, he was... He had some background in biology. And to counteract his statement we have also another statement from... This is from Einstein, but another, from Pasteur, this is very suitable for our purpose. (pause) Einstein was against the..., what they call the laws of quantum mechanics. Quantum mechanics is the most advanced stage of modern physics or modern chemistry. But they are..., says that there must be chance. They must introduce a concept of chance in order to explain the nature of the Absolute Truth. In other words, these physical laws, the laws of nature...

Prabhupāda: The Absolute Truth is also chance?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In order to write down in the form of mathematical formulas or equations in quantum mechanics this—they call probability—the theory of probability or chance should be introduced. But Einstein was against that. That's what he's saying. It says, "The Heisenberg all-tranquilizing philosophy or religion is so delicately contrived that for the time being it provides a gentle pillow for the true believer from which he cannot very easily be aroused. So let him lie there." In other words, those who believe in chance... The main concept in quantum mechanics or quantum physics is mainly from this Heisenberg and Borg. They are well-known physicists. There is a chapter called "Copenhagen Interpretation." There was a great meeting in Copenhagen about this concept of quantum mechanics, and so they call it "Copenhagen Interpretation." And there the names which were..., this Heisenberg and Borg(?). And they were saying that "Yes, we must accept that there must be chance." So the argument was put forward by these people, but Einstein is against, to that idea. So he's saying that "Those who believe, let them lie there, because the philosophy made by these people serves as a very gentle pillow, very soft. So once people lie there, they cannot be very easily aroused." That's the idea. "But," he said, "that is not a fact."

Hari-śauri: That's like... He means it's an easy way out for them to say "chance."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. "Those who don't understand, those who want to be just satisfied with that concept, let them lie there for the time being. But," he said, "that is not a truth."

Prabhupāda: So why the scientists die?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Why scientists die?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why do not make some arrangement so they'll not die?

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: And maybe from there, on our way by road, we know some people in Shillong. And maybe from Imphal you can go to Shillong for some programs, in Shillong.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: 'Cause that is important city, very big city.

Prabhupāda: Shillong is Assam.

Gargamuni: In Meghalaya

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's now Meghalaya. Yes.

Gargamuni: Now Meghalaya. But it used to be a British capital. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the children. They're not attacking the children. Otherwise they cannot keep four ferocious animal in a place. They'll fight and they will kill one in order to... You were at that time there?

Nanda-kumāra: No. I was in...

Prabhupāda: So you keep this later on, do the needful. (end)

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No, no, why better quality?

Hari-śauri: Actually this man that was here from that college the other day, he saw one of those Gurukula books and he said, "Oh, what is this?" He saw the Gopal Coloring Book. He said, "Can I get a sample?" Very nice.

Satsvarūpa: At any rate, even that one had many illustrations in it, that Mādhavendra Purī. So he was wanting to know if he could... In order to get all these paintings done, these so many drawings, whether he could employ some Jaipur artists that Saurabha is working with, which would be inexpensive.

Prabhupāda: Jaipur artists?

Satsvarūpa: There's some... Just like village craftsmen and workers that Saurabha is working with in Bombay who are making the furniture and different decorations in Bombay, and he says that Saurabha also knows some men in these villages who are artists, and they work for very little, but they can make nice authentic illustrations of all these things, whether...

Prabhupāda: Hm, that is all right. I do not know.

Satsvarūpa: And they would be carefully...

Prabhupāda: No, I have no knowledge about these things. What is the use of consulting me?

Satsvarūpa: Well, I think it's to consult with you on the principle that they're not devotees...

Prabhupāda: I know that they made some books already. Why they are being rejected? Then again you make, and again rejecting. That is unnecessary.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That means they do not know. Say that, "beyond experimental knowledge" or "beyond your capacity."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Still, they are hesitant to say that.

Prabhupāda: That is their poor fund of knowledge. A gentleman will accept, "Yes, we do not know." But they, in round about way, in order to keep their position, they'll bluff. That is most dangerous, bluffing.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's the difficulty.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, that is the... If one wants to be cheated and wants to cheat others, you cannot... Sarpaḥ krūraḥ khalaḥ krūraḥ. There are crooked living entities; one who is snake, and one is man. So you can control the snake, but you cannot control this rascal crooked man. That is very difficult. Khalaḥ kena nivāryate. He'll remain crooked, however you say. I told you that story? Scissor? Scissor? Yes. Because he's human being, he'll persist, and the other one, the animal, you can bring her, bring that animal under control. But because he is human being, you cannot bring him under control. He will persist.

Gurukṛpā: What was that story of Caesar?

Prabhupāda: Huh? Tell him.

Room Conversation -- February 2, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: So the men would not buy their lunch from the meat-eaters.

Prabhupāda: No, that is not our scheme. Our scheme is that pathya, auṣadha. Auṣadha means medicine, and pathya means diet. So in order to cure him from these material desires we shall give him medicine, hari-nāma, and diet, prasāda. We have no such program, to make him vegetarian. That is not our program.

Yugadharma: I had one more other scheme with Dhanañjaya dāsa from Vṛndāvana. Dhanañjaya is making with this Spanish devotee who's staying, making... I have just seen last week these beautiful, beautiful Gaura-Nitāi mūrti, these Gaura-Nitāi Deities that he is making. They are casting them in Vṛndāvana, and they are very, very beautiful. And Dhanañjaya has told me that you have encouraged him to sell mūrtis in the United States.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yugadharma: I would like to do also, set a large business up if the prasādam...

Prabhupāda: It will be very nice.

Satsvarūpa: Oh.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Bhavānanda: Set the example.

Prabhupāda: Example. Just like Bhavānanda, when there was no commode here. He was taking my stool and urine. Does it mean he is a sweeper? He's a sannyāsī Vaiṣṇava. Similarly, āpani ācari' jīve śikhāilā. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "I am not a sannyāsī." But He took sannyāsa. Actually He is God, so what is the benefit of becoming a sannyāsī, for God? But He became that. (break) In order to serve the mass of people, to bring them to the ideal position, we should try to introduce this varṇāśrama, not that we are going to be candidates of varṇāśrama. It is not our business. But to teach them how the world will be in peaceful position we have to introduce. Now the days of wind will come from March.

Satsvarūpa: Winds begin?

Prabhupāda: And April this wind is...

Satsvarūpa: Winds begin now?

Bhavānanda: Yes. They'll start to come from the south. Vaikuṇṭha breezes.

Prabhupāda: Now here is a very nice institution for the benefit of the whole society human.

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Just see. Such an important animal. And then, when she passes stool and urine, that is also nice. The milk is nutritious, the stool is useful; the urine is useful. Why this poor animal should be slaughtered? What kind of civilization? Your material desires, eating, sleeping, mating-fulfill it like a gentleman and save time and make spiritual advancement. This is to be introduced. Why you are inventing so strenuous work and spoil time, valuable time of human life? This we want to preach. Save time, be spiritually advanced, and other necessities, make it gentlemanly short-cut. If you save time, you can read all these literatures, understand what is value of life. Therefore, the literature here. Not for all. The brāhmaṇas, educated. And they'll distribute the knowledge by speaking. Others, those who are less intelligent, simply by hearing, they will be guided. Just be convinced what kind of civilization we are trying to introduce. We should not be carried away. Then finished. In order to check others, if we become carried away, (laughing) then finish all business. To save them from being washed away by māyā, if we become washed away, then where is the hope? Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra (CC Adi 9.41). Be strong so that you may not be rascal, and then you can do; others you can check. Otherwise, it will be impossible. How it is possible? A man is drowning. If you are strong enough, you can save. But if you also become drowned, then how you'll save him? So the everything is there. Save yourself, save others. This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. First of all save yourself; then try to save others. Or both things can go on simultaneously. The same example. If you want to save somebody who's drowning you must know that I may not be washed away. I have to remain strong; then I can save him." Everyone is presenting himself as the saver, savior. These politicians and these philanthropist, humanitarian, they have taken the slogan, "To serve the humanity..." What is that slogan? "Is to serve God?"

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Then again operated.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, another operation. Then another thing they were describing that there was a patient who was dying. There was no chance of his recovery, but still, in order to get... The man was a big man. So the television was covering because he was an important political figure. So the doctor performed a big brain operation, even though there was no purpose whatsoever, so that he could get advertised on the television as a very important doctor. And at one point he said, "Now bring in the television," and he cut the man's head and did a whole operation for no purpose at all. The person died anyway. But he was given advertisement that he was the most important surgeon. And they talk amongst themselves. She knew all this.

Prabhupāda: They were arranging my brain operation.

Brahmānanda: In New York. They threatened us that it must be done, that you must stay in the hospital. The refused that you should leave the hospital, and they wanted to take all these tests, spine..., put needles in the spine.

Hari-śauri: I read a story when we were in the U.S. about one doctor there. They took him to court, and they described how in order to get money, he was doing a very specialized operation on the spine. And he would tell people, for any reason at all, he would tell them that they must have this operation even when it wasn't necessary. And he was taking at the same time eight amphetamines every day to keep himself going. And he made so many mistakes, and all these people after the operations, they would come and they were paralyzed, or one man, his skin became so sensitive that he couldn't wear a shirt or anything because it was too painful, and another person would be crippled in another way from his mistakes that he made. And he was doing it simply on the basis to get more money. And at the same time he was living in a $100,000 house and maintaining big, big cars and like that. Then when they investigated him, they found out all these things.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The whole profession is crooked. She told that they have a cure for cancer. There's a cure for cancer. It comes from a natural herb available in South America. But the American Medical Association has forbidden the importation of this herb, because if they import it, then all of their cancer work is finished. And they're making billions of dollars doing cancer research. So they won't allow this herb to be imported. It has no bad effect, but they will not allow its importation. So one of our devotees, Jayānanda, you know he has cancer now.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Oh, he has very severe case of cancer.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Pradyumna: "There are many spiritual masters, but Ṛṣabhadeva..." (break)

Prabhupāda: And who is father according to that definition? This is our formula.

Ādi-keśava: They argue sometimes. They say, "You are saying that you guru..."

Prabhupāda: You are argue your point, but our argument is here. You are arguing from your point of view, and we shall argue from our point of view. Unless the father releases the son from the cycle of birth and death, he's not father. This is our formula.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In order to accept this, they will have to rewrite the laws.

Prabhupāda: This is the actual... Now, apart from the scriptural injunction, if one comes to the argument, then such kind of father is there in the animal society also. Cats and dogs, they also beget children, but they cannot relieve the child from the cycle of birth and death. And Bhagavad-gītā says, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). First of all you have to see what is the actual distress in this material life. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So in this life you are my father, and next time I become a cat or dog, so who cares for this father? I get another father. So who knows this law? Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā (BG 3.27). The laws of nature is going on, and everything is happening. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). We are getting a type of body according to karma.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So this tablet is effective. Prepare this.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Today we'll get more.

Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you'll go on the roof this morning?

Prabhupāda: I have no objection. (break) Nobody likes. In order to taste the sugar, you have to chew so much.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So many different potions also throughout the day. One time that kavirāja...

Prabhupāda: They say that "Why should you bother so much? You have to take the sweet. Take sugar."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nobody can go through it. It's such trouble. An ordinary person can't do it. Unless you have a servant, you can't take kavirāja's medicine.

Prabhupāda: Just see. The doctor recommended eight tablets at a time.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: More than once a day. Many times a day?

Prabhupāda: Twice. Eight tablets.

Room Conversation with GBC members -- March 2-3, 1977, Mayapura:

Gargamuni: I have to go to Iran in order to sell the vehicles. Where am I supposed to go? That's a stupid proposal. I wasn't here for that. (laughter) It's a stupid proposal.

Jagadīśa: That wasn't the main part of the proposal.

Gargamuni: Well, that clause is stupid.

Rāmeśvara: We can discuss that.

Satsvarūpa: But the general assignments are agreeable, is that Iran...

Gargamuni: Yes. We're going to have to go in.

Hṛdayānanda: So we can arrange it.

Prabhupāda: We have got very good encouragement from Budapest. You have read that letter. That means there is very good potency of our movement being accepted in communistic countries. Just read that letter.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You like this garland, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: All right. You have brought it; I must like it.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Satsvarūpa: Shall I read on?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with GBC members -- March 2-3, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Very good. So take this man as important for future activities. Try to encourage him and train him. He'll be good help.

Satsvarūpa: More resolutions about book distribution. The temple presidents, in order to control the techniques of book distribution, whether they are going against our resolution not to use illegal techniques, the presidents should go out on a monthly basis and observe their own book distributors, how they distribute books in the field. And also the GBC man should go out in each of his temples in his zone at least once during the year to see how the men are distributing books. And if a temple continues some illegal technique for book distribution, the BBT trustees are responsible to do the needful to rectify it.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Satsvarūpa: We have made one resolution that certain techniques should not be done. They are too dangerous for arrest. So if a temple persists in doing those illegal techniques, then the BBT will...

Prabhupāda: Rectify.

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Ram Jethmalani: Have Muslims taken to this movement?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Many. One professor, Dr. Amja,(?) he is my disciple, I gave him name Rāma-rañjana. They are Muslim. It is philosophy, science. It is not meant for a particular caste or creed or nation. No. Rather, to accept this creed or accept this process, one is required first to give up this designation. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). That is nirmala. So long we are covered by this material body, we are not nirmala; we are polluted. So one has to give up this designation, bodily concept of life. Tanu-māninā. These words are given. Tanu-māninā. So long one is continuing in the bodily concept of life, it is sinful life, in comparison. This we have to give up, in order to come to the transcendental position. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam. Nirmala (CC Madhya 19.170).

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Car.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mr. Jetthi will go to Gwalior by car?

Kārttikeya: No, they leave from...

Mr. Dwivedi: Gwalior... Gwalior I may be going by train, but it is just possible that I am asking this young man, my cousin, if he kindly accompanies me, to share part of my work, in order to get things done, if he can take his car. I don't know whether he can. So I am requesting him. If he can spare about a week's time, he'll be a great help because...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he will do the...

Mr. Dwivedi: ...the installation will...

Prabhupāda: He's young man. He can work.

Mr. Dwivedi: If tomorrow I'm meeting... Mr. Mondalia(?) is coming tomorrow, and if I can only meet him, then I'm asking him... I think he'll give us a thousand meters of electric wire, another two-three hundred bulbs. So I'll not have to spend anything. Only I have to take it and put things over there.

Prabhupāda: Mondalia knows our movement.

Morning Talk -- April 25, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is preaching. Preaching means to make Jagāi-Mādhāi a devotee. That is preaching. Simply talking big, big words...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So I'm enthusiastic to go there and to try and get these people to be devotees. I mean, I'm enthusiastic to do that. I'm just... I know that in order for it to work, they have to take it themselves. That...

Prabhupāda: Otherwise it is not possible.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. That was my only point.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Where we shall get men?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, that's the one thing we cannot...

Prabhupāda: That I have already clearly said.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But I'm very keen to go there and to associate with the workers there, teach them as much as...

Prabhupāda: I am also going there for that. Otherwise...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think it's a real good challenge. I mean, I feel it's a nice challenge.

Prabhupāda: Now the... We can see practically how the system of civilization is bad, that this Indira Gandhi, rākṣasī, she became exalted in the topmost rank, and she thought... A person who is equally good or more than her, he was imprisoned. Then how the system is bad, that a rogue comes to the topmost post and a good man is put into the prison? Is not the system defective? Imperfect? Some way or other, you can become very important, and the actually important man you can cut down.

Conversation: Vairagya, Salaries, and Political Etiquette -- April 28, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Vairāgya... Caitanya Mahāprabhu says clearly that niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. The bhagavad-bhajana, to become devotee of the Lord, means he's disgusted with this material world. For him, bhagavad-bhajana. Just like if I become disgusted with something, I require some change, similarly, bhagavad-bhajana is for him who is absolutely disgusted with this material world. And anyone who has got little interest in material enjoyment, he's not fit for bhagavad-bhajana. He'll have to accept again this material body, either he becomes Brahmā or becomes an ant in the stool, according to his karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur deha-upapattaye (SB 3.31.1). He'll have to develop certain type of body according to his desire of enjoyment. This is nature's law. Then where is the question of going back to home, back to Godhead? Why so many varieties of life? There is Brahmā, and there is ant in the stool. So vairāgya-vidyā-nija... Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ (SB 1.2.7), janayaty āśu vairāgyam. And vairāgyam means jñānam ca. When one is in full knowledge that "To remain in this material world is useless for me"—jñānam—"I am simply wasting my time by repetition of birth and death," then he can have vairāgya. "Stop this!" If this sense is not awakened, there is no bhakti. It is not so easy. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). That is vairāgya. So vairāgya-vidyā... Otherwise why big, big persons, they renounced everything? Bharata Mahārāja, young man, the emperor of the whole world, gave up everything. Caitanya Mahāprabhu personally teaches, young man, good, beautiful wife, young wife, so affectionate mother, so much honor in the society, Nimāi Paṇḍita, so beautiful body... Tyaktvā sudustyaja-surepsita-rājya-lakṣmīm (SB 11.5.34). Surepsita. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's position was, even the demigods, they desired such family life. But He still gave up. That is teaching. Therefore Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya says, vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhak..., śikṣārtham: "to teach others." He understood that in order to teach others vairāgya-vidyā... He is the Supreme Person. Vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yoga-śikṣārtham ekaḥ purāṇa-puruṣaḥ: (CC Madhya 6.254) "That He was, Supreme Lord. Now He has appeared as Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya."Śarīra-dhārī: "He has accepted one body as Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya." So these things should be stopped, that they should live comfortably with husband and wife, children, and take salary from the... You decide. This is not to our... Besides that, in our BBT it is clearly written that "Fifty percent for printing book, and fifty percent for..." So you cannot violate this. Those who can give voluntary service, "Welcome." Otherwise we don't require. At least they should not be given any salary. That is very bad. This is against principle.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: You perceive according to the instruction of Gītā. Just like a child. He does not know how to use the senses. He is going to touch fire or something dangerous, to catch a snake. It is the duty of the father: "No, my dear child, don't do that. It is dangerous." You have to follow him. If you become "self"—"I am self alone"—then bother yourself. Our Vedic injunction is not "self." Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In order to reform yourself, you must go to a proper guru. Samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham, not "I am self. All right."

Young man (4): Swamiji, if a man admits or comes to the conclusion that his mind is chaos...

Prabhupāda: Chaos?

Young man (4): In seeking to bring order into the chaos...

Prabhupāda: Mind's business is...

Young man (4): In seeking to bring order to this chaos, won't his natural path open before him? Won't he naturally come to spiritual sādhana?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the question?

Young man (4): I say, if a man sits down and admits to himself that his mind is chaotic, in trying to bring order to this chaos, won't his natural spiritual path open before him, when he sets about purifying his mind?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He said, if someone is sitting down and the mind is very chaotic, and, he says, is there not something inherent within the living being that automatically that chaos will go away of its own accord?

Young man (4): No, no, no, that's not what I said.

Evening Darsana -- May 14, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda:

vāsudeve bhagavati

bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ

janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ

jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam

(SB 1.2.7)

In order to come to the position of that mahātmā, one has to render service to Vāsudeva. Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ. Then jñāna-vairāgya automatically will be manifested. Janayaty āśu vairāgyam. Real life means vairāgya. Just like these boys known as hippies. They are trying for vairāgya. They are coming from countries, very opulent, rich father, mother, but they do not like, inclined to vairāgya, renunciation. But renunciation must be based on knowledge, jñāna-vairāgya. So that they are lacking. They are not fixed up. But there is a tendency of vairāgya. Is it not? That is also good. (Hindi) Therefore, according to Vedic civilization, there is compulsory vairāgya. As soon as one is fifty years old, he must give up family life. Pañcāśordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. Aiye. (Hindi) Jawaharlal Nehru, up to the end of his life he wanted to remain prime minister. (Hindi with scattered English words) Practical application there are. (Hindi) (pause) (Hindi) (Hindi conversation with scattered English) Without bhakti, jñāna is never sufficient, but bhakti does not depend... Ahaituky apratihatā. It cannot be checked. (Hindi) Bhagavān is within. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). And He assures... (Hindi) The so-called jñānī, he wants to become liberated and become one with the Supreme-kāṅkṣati. When actually one is self-realized, na kāṅkṣati. Yogī kāṅkṣati. (Hindi) Bhagavān is the Supreme. We are part and parcel. So I have already given you the example, these fingers, part and parcel of the body. The only desire should be how to serve the body. That is selfishness. (Hindi) Then where is that picture? The gopīs are pushing Rādhārāṇī to Kṛṣṇa.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There's life in any material...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But we wanted to avoid that...

Prabhupāda: In the physical combination of atoms is combination of life also.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In order to make a distinction between that life and the matter, especially to the material scientific community, we were thinking of presenting in the manner that matter, though in the spiritual sense there is nothing like matter, but still, there is matter...

Prabhupāda: No, there is no... Matter means matter develops on spirit. Without spirit there is no existence of matter. Just like spirit means consciousness. You see in this finger. Here is consciousness, and little after, there is no consciousness, this nail. But the nail has grown from the skin. So therefore, from consciousness, unconsciousness... Not that from unconsciousness, consciousness.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good example.

Prabhupāda: Unconsciousness means absence of consciousness.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Unconsciousness also means no life?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Originally conscious. When there is forgetfulness, that is not. So unconsciousness is a covering of life. You develop this argument. There is no such thing as unconsciousness, but when the consciousness is covered, that is unconsciousness, negation.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Another example you can give. Suppose a man is high-court judge, very... Now, his mother is feeding him, sitting down. And if the son says, "No, let me dress like a high-court judge, then I shall eat," will the mother like it? That is like...(?) "You become high-court judge and be satisfied."(?)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Once I gave a lecture at Emory University to the scientific community, and I tried to introduce this bhakti-yoga in a scientific language and found it difficult, but I tried to bring the idea by comparing that an electron... In order to study an electron, we actually take advantage of a field where an electric current can be generated. Otherwise the property of electron cannot be studied in a scientific experiment. Similarly, we established that ātmā, being nonphysical and nonchemical, is spiritual and also has personal character. We must take advantage of a personal feature where one can have direct relationship between this individual ātmā, and there should be also a supreme ātmā. And the relationship of the study of this will be the experimental study, and that experiment is bhakti-yoga.

Prabhupāda: I have several times stressed that living being is a sample of God. If you study living being, you understand God.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The mental attitude of the inquirer or the seeker in this bhakti process, you also said, it plays a very important role in understanding this relationship between the jīva, or individual life, ātmā, and Paramātmā, these two relationships. So we proposed that since it is based on psychological interactions, willing, feeling and the thinking, so the attitude should be humble and it should not be arrogant, and it should feel the limitations. Actually we try to bring all the brahminical qualities in order to study this bhakti-yoga in a scientific manner, and we presented like that, briefly, in a scientific community, and it was mildly accepted. They were just thinking that...

Prabhupāda: Therefore in the society there must be qualified brāhmaṇa. The all rascals, śūdras, professors...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just like in a scientific experiment we have so many conditions...

Prabhupāda: Just this morning I gave: bālayor anayor nṛṇāṁ brāhmaṇo rūpa... Nanda Mahārāja. Bring that book.

Upendra: Downstairs.

Prabhupāda: Tvaṁ hi (sic:) brahma-bhujaṁ śreṣṭhaḥ. Gargamuni is addressed by Nanda Mahārāja. Tvaṁ hi brahma-bhujaṁ śreṣṭhaḥ, bālayor anayor nṛṇāṁ brāhmaṇo rūpa. Seven.... Eighth Chapter. There is mark. Read there.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually that's a good example, that, the one that we are using, same simile, that in order to study this life being nonphysical, so the experiment also has to be nonphysical, not that directly we observe just like any other material experiment. So those conditions necessary have to be fulfilled in order to conduct this experiment. So they become very quiet. The audience doesn't..., becomes serious, at the same time quiet. Let them think, "Yes, these things are part of the clear thinking and at very high level." So that since these experiments are nonphysical, the conditions necessary must be very subtle. And the... Because the diet that man eats also plays a very important role, and the brain has to be very clean, and the habit must be very clean. Otherwise these experiments...

Prabhupāda: Anartha-nirvṛttiḥ. This is called anartha-nirvṛttiḥ. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgaḥ tato bhajana-kriyā, atha anartha-nirvṛtti syāt (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). Ceto-darpaṇa-marjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ, hṛdy antaḥ-stho abhadrāṇi (SB 1.2.17). These are abhadrāṇi. Vidhunoti.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Same thing is with the Back to Godhead. Just publish some photo, try to change so many things in order to make it popularized. They have been doing that even with the philosophy. (pause)

Śatadhanya: I remember when Rāmeśvara was here, he had mentioned that in one article you had denounced the Christians strongly, so he said he left one part out because he was afraid there would be a bad reaction from the Christians in America.

Prabhupāda: That is possible. That is possible. He should be careful. Then?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think in addition to Satsvarūpa and Jayādvaita checking the English, that Bhakti-prema Mahārāja has to check all the Sanskrit of all of the books... He's translating now, so as he's translating, he can check. He's going, starting from the First Canto.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think this is very appropriate, because checking English doesn't have any meaning without checking the Sanskrit, the original.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There was one verse in the Fifth Canto. From the way that they translated it, there was no way that anyone could possibly have understood what the verse meant. I mean, it was made unintelligible by the translation. So we were reading. Finally Bhakti-prema says, "Wait a minute. This translation is wrong. They have edited an extra statement here that is not there, and it makes it completely not understandable." Then suddenly, when he corrected the Sanskrit, it was easy to understand. It was very clear.

Prabhupāda: So what to do?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So I think we just have to be slow but sure. We have to go over all of the books and make sure that they're perfect before they're printed again. Not be in such a rush, print, print, and print all nonsense.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: One time I had a strong talk with Rāmeśvara Mahārāja about our article for printing in the Back to Godhead. I didn't want them to be printed in Back to Godhead because they made so many changes...

Prabhupāda: Oh, he has dared to change yours also?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. They change so many things in our article. And it was on the telephone. I was speaking to him in Atlanta from Los Angeles. And I told him that "This article should not be printed because they have made so many changes." And I didn't like that. Then they answered that "It has already been offset, and BBT policy is always to be rushing. It's always BBT policy." Then I told him that "If you sacrifice quality on the strength of rushing, then it is your business, but that's not my way, so please don't print it." But in any case, they have printed anyway that article. And we all had a bad reaction.

Prabhupāda: So you bring this to Satsvarūpa. They cannot change anything.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Devotee (3): They must become a little humble.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34).

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They must know that every knowledge-acquiring process requires certain conditions to be fulfilled in order to understand it, that those conditions have to be acquired. Otherwise it's not possible.

Prabhupāda: So that is the difficulty at the present... A rascal is arguing. What is the meaning of his argument? He's a rascal. It has no meaning.

Devotee (3): All procrastination.

Prabhupāda: So read Bhāgavatam very seriously. Then your rascaldom will go. Lokasyājānato vidvāṁś cakre sātvata... All rascals, for their knowledge the Bhāgavata was written. Mūḍho nābhijānāti, mohito nābhijānāti. The difficulty is a rascal is thinking himself as very advanced in knowledge. That is the difficulty.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is the trouble with the scientists.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they are creating greatest trouble.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They think that the destiny of man lies in their hands. Sometimes they say like that.

Prabhupāda: That is yes. A rascal can become intelligent man. That's good. But without becoming intelligent, remaining rascal, they are living. Otherwise there is no hindrance. I may be rascal, but in future, I may be intelligent by education, by... That is not checked. But the difficulty is that he remains a rascal and claims to be intelligent. That is the difficulty. That is the difficulty. We don't say that "Because you are rascal, you shall continue to remain a rascal." No. You become intelligent. Take advantage of intelligent person. But you remain a rascal and claim to be intelligent, and that is... They are doing. Little learning is dangerous. We say that don't remain rascal. Tamaso mā: "Don't remain in darkness." We say; we are canvassing. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for that purpose, that "You are rascal, but don't remain a rascal. Come to the light." Tamaso mā jyotir gama. That is our business. But this rascal, he'll remain in rascaldom, and he will claim that "I am not." That is the difficulty. Take enlightenment. Bhāgavata is there. Bhagavad-gītā is there. And become intelligent. But don't claim to be intelligent while you are on the rascal platform. That is not good. That is suicidal. So very carefully read Bhāgavatam. Don't continue to remain rascal. Then life is successful. This is the Western obstinacy. They want to remain in the rascal platform, and still they claim. Is it not?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Conversation about Old Days in Calcutta -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I've heard you talk about it previously.

Prabhupāda: It is full of oil.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Very palatable for the fish-eaters. Bengalis, they are too much fond of fish-eating. They don't even... Sometimes people say, "Fish-eating is nonvegetarian."

Prabhupāda: Non... Yes, "Fish is a vegetable, water vegetable."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, that's what they say, "water vegetable." I noticed that these banana trees, they don't seem to have any bananas on them. Growing in your garden?

Prabhupāda: Hm, why?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: My guess is that in order for bananas to grow... Like I have not seen normally banana trees growing in this side, you know what I mean, Vṛndāvana. I suspect it has something to do with the soil. You can't just take a tree and plant it wherever you want. Soil has to be such that it can give the proper nutrition for bananas to grow. It looks good, but it's not banana.

Bhu-mandala Diagram Discussion -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Yaśodā-nandana: Another unique feature of this map is that... Bhakti-prema Mahārāja found about... There is one space which is mentioned by Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura in his commentary. The complete diameter from west to east and north to south, it is calculated to be 500,000,000 yojanas. In order to be able to adjust that, we needed 250,000,000 on each side.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means 4,000,000,000 miles.

Prabhupāda: That I have given there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Yaśodā-nandana: Yes, that was mentioned. His Divine Grace has mentioned it. So the total distance of all the seas was coming to about 496. So we understood from the commentary of Viśvanātha Cakravartī that there is a little space, vacant space. Between this vacant land there is a little guarded space, between this Aloka-varṣa and the covering of the universe, which is 1,700,000 yojanas on each side of the universe. And Viśvanātha Cakravartī explains that the reason for this is that under all the planetary systems there is the eight elements, which are sustaining all the Bhū-maṇḍalas and all the lower planetary systems. And if this is touching the side of the universe, then these elements would have nothing to do. There would be no function for them. Therefore, that is one reason... And another reason he was giving is that when Varāha-avatāra lifted the earth, if the Bhū-maṇḍala is touching the side of the universe, then there's no place to lift it. Therefore, by his calculation... You have given then a very long purport with devotional senses(?). According to Jyotir Veda, like this, it was mentioned that there is little space between the outward part of the universe and Aloka-varṣa. That is the space, so that Varāha could lift up the earth from the Garbhodaka Ocean. (Prabhupāda chuckles)

Bhakti-prema: (indistinct)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that you gave that right in the purport. You called them (indistinct). See, you gave this huge... It says here, "However , the technical terms used in the astronomical calculations given by the Jyotir Veda are difficult to translate into English. Therefore, to satisfy the reader, we may include the exact Sanskrit statement given by Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura, which records exact calculations regarding universal affairs." And then you give this huge Sanskrit quotation. And from reading this, Bhakti-prema Mahārāja found out that there is space. Due to this purport we got that information. So it was perfectly put in here. It's very nice.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So I think that Svarūpa Dāmodara will be helped by these drawings when the men come. 'Cause he said that even though they are scientists, they could not understand this volume. It's been a mystery practically. These drawings, one by one, should be able to help in the creation of that planetarium.

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What is that? Come here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says in order to make that money, you have to do two things. One is decrease the expenses, minimize the expenses, and also maximize collections. Right now...

Prabhupāda: Maximize collect... If you increase collection, that money comes, extra.

Mr. Myer: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But by decreasing expenditure, you save money. That is real saving.

Mr. Myer: No, (indistinct) rupees is not the savings. At present the excess in expenditure only will come, as it stands now. So we have to find a regular means. It's very possible if some of the...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's saying that whatever the case is, more money is being spent here than is being made.

Prabhupāda: So save it. First of all save it. More money, to increase, that is not difficult for us. We go to beg, "Please give us." We can get.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I do not care to read this nonsense, never. What I hear from you, that's all. I tell them, "Mūḍhas, narādhamas." That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You don't spend any time studying their philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Why shall I waste my time? I never read all these.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes devotees say, in order to defeat... This is their philosophy.

Prabhupāda: They are defeated, already dead. Few days they can quack. That's all. Who asks for Marx now? Gandhi, Marx, Tolstoy, who cares for them? Vivekananda? Now Kṛṣṇa's Bhagavad-gītā is taken.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even in the law court it's quoted.

Prabhupāda: So what is the Marx philosophy?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says that the people are suffering at the hands of the capitalists. One or two people...

Prabhupāda: That's a fact. That we admit, but not to adjust in that way.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He said everything should be taken out of the hands of the few and given to the many.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm!

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "The tradition began long, long ago. The message of the scriptures was recorded by Śrīla Vyāsadeva in order to benefit men living in the present age. This historic event is even mentioned in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam..." (break)

Pranavdas Gupta: ...calculated is 1st September, 1896. The date is here. See the old calendar of..., that is Samvat 1953.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Pranavdas Gupta: The Samvat comes... Because when the date is 1896 we have to add fifty-seven years, because when we want to get samvat, then we have to add fifty-seven years. So then we add fifty-seven years it comes 1953. Then he took out the very, very old man, (?) and I saw that, that he took out that calendar, and pañcama, and then he calculated. He saw this. And I told him that "We can look at the date. I don't know exactly what the date is, but just following Janmāṣṭamī." No. Day I did not disclose. Then he said... Then he saw after Janmāṣṭamī that's navamī. Then he said, "The day is Tuesday." I knew the day is Tuesday. "That's correct." Then what is the date? And he said, "First September." When we look here if it is 1st September then that must be adit-masa(?) also, because we are getting Janmāṣṭamī 6th September. That year also it must be adit-masa(?). He said yes. Then he saw there were Jyeṣṭha, at that time, Jyeṣṭha or Asadhar. That was adit-masa(?) He saw in your pañcama. Then he prepared all these things. Then he said according to rasi... "Do you know his name?" I said, "No, name I don't remember," because I am not to disclose anything...

Prabhupāda: I'll tell you, therefore, "Let him ask."

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So who is mentally deranged?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says we are. He says, "And they often become founders and preachers of diverse types of religious cults."

Prabhupāda: No, no. Your atomic energy, what benefit has done to the people?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A real rākṣasa. Here's Haṁsadūta's reply to him. "Reply to Dr. Kovoor's article: Before going into the main body of my article, which I..., a transcript of a lecture I delivered at Sarasvatī Hall on July 29th before an audience of approximately one thousand respectable gentry of Colombo, and where Dr. Kovoor also happened to be present and was subsequently challenged but failed to defend his position that life is generated by chance chemical combination, I would briefly like to point out the apparent defects in his article. It is not beyond Kovoor's power of observation. First of all, it should be pointed out that Dr. Kovoor has done exactly what I predicted he would do in my last article, namely swamp the reader with a deluge of word jugglery in order to avoid the main point in question, which is, If life is generated by chance biochemical combination, as the scientists claim, then if given the said chemicals, can the scientist Kovoor make the chemicals come to life? Instead of answering this point, he has cleverly written that 'Scientists have created over ten elements, such a fermium, plutonium, serium, einsteinium, etc.' But elements are a far cry from living beings. He says that Dr. Cyril Pannamperuma and Dr. Bal Gobind Khorana, Nobel Prize-winners..." Incidentally, this Mr. Nobel was the inventor of dynamite, and he is giving Peace Prizes. Absurd to say the least. He's famous for inventing dynamite and he's giving the Peace Prize. As you said, drunkards. He says, "Those Nobel Prize-winners have synthesized the building blocks of living protoplasm. So if this is a fact, then why Dr. Kovoor has not met the challenge and created life with the said building blocks of amino acids? My challenge still stands: Create life from chemicals. As for incubating a baby in a test tube..." (break) "...required to produce that baby in the test tube cannot be created by the so-called scientists. So what is their credit if they produce a baby in a test tube? God is already producing millions of babies daily in nature's test tube, the womb of a woman. Kovoor's statement that scientists are objective thinkers and base their thoughts on empirical knowledge only, goes to prove my point that the soul lies beyond the jurisdiction of the limited senses of the scientists, and therefore a completely different process of approach has to be adopted."

Prabhupāda: So Haṁsadūta has become famous now.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All the people there will support Haṁsadūta. Naturally they won't support such a rascal. (pause) (whispering in background)

Prabhupāda: This argument is called Pretitio Principial logic. You can see the dictionary, what is the meaning, pretitio.

Room Conversation -- October 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. That is good. That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Many people will come to this community to see how it is done. I think it will become very, very important in many different respects—for farmers, for people who are interested in designing ideal communities, for so many people who would like to live an ideal life, for people who want to come and see a unique place to visit, because there will be a temple of Kṛṣṇa-Arjuna there, a doll exhibit. I think it can be a wonderful preaching opportunity. And most wonderful of all is if we can exhibit self-sufficiency, that simply by farming the land, we can get enough grains, and taking care of the cows, we can get enough good foods to keep the body healthy. We can produce our own clothing. This is very much needed in this age. It's a positive alternative to artificial civilization. And the center will be Kṛṣṇa. All of the different activities and varṇas will be demonstrated, and all the different āśramas will be ideally being lived by the different devotees. People will see everything that they're doing is here but in its pure form and everyone working happily and cooperatively together. Actually, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in order for it to really work you have to come there, to be very honest. I know it will never be there unless you come and stay with us there and just show us and teach us. 'Cause I've seen practically that although everything is already written, Your Divine Grace has had to come and show personally a little bit, "Do like this; do like that." As the ācārya, you have adjusted everything perfectly to suit the situation of the present day and age. No one else could do that, none of your Godbrothers. No one in India could ever do that except you. So you are required. Everything is there, but you are also..., you have to be there. Otherwise I don't know if it's actually possible. And it's very important. You have to get better, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We're prepared to stay with you—all of the devotees feel this way—to encourage you to get better. Our plans are there, we're there, but we need you. You have to be there with us to guide us. I think that this disease is simply Kṛṣṇa testing our actual..., our love for you, Śrīla Prabhupāda, so that we will learn that we fully need you, 'cause actually we do. Everything we've done in this movement you've guided us with. We're realizing that you have to continue to guide us. We're not self-realized. We simply are able to carry out your instructions. So we have nothing else to do but to be with you here until you get healthy again and then lead us. This is our business now—to be with you. It seems like there are so many opportunities now that are beginning to present themselves. When you first went to the West there was nothing at all, and you created a whole world of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And now the public is beginning to actually take a real interest in our movement and people, respectable people from all over the world, are coming forward to want to help our movement. So there's a great facility that's available now even more than ten years ago. So if we've made so much progress in ten years, in another ten years there's no way to measure how much our movement can be expanded. And we're all just ready to follow each one of your directions. You don't have to tax yourself by... You can just talk to us and tell us, and we'll act. And we're very happy. In the meantime, we will give you the medicine of hari-nāma.

Prabhupāda: Hm. That is real medicine.

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Where is Hari-śauri?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hari-śauri? He's bathing, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break) ...comfortably, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Śrīla Prabhupāda? In order to finish the Bombay temple, we're making a... We're sending some money to them for completion. So we have a committee called the Māyāpur-Vṛndāvana committee. Persons on the committee are Jayapatākā Swami, Girirāja, Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, Ātreya Ṛṣi, Rāmeśvara Mahārāja, Gurukṛpā Mahārāja and myself. That committee was formed by the GBC last Māyāpur festival. So they decided that they would give a loan, because the BBT was a little short of money... The BBT sends the money to Bombay. So the BBT wants to loan some money from the Māyāpur-Vṛndāvana account in Los Angeles, and they'll pay it back with the same bank interest.

Prabhupāda: Make me centered.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Make a loan from Los Angeles to the BBT, and the BBT will repay it with the regular bank interest. Is that all right? Had you given power of attorney, now that the MV trust has approved it, Girirāja and I can sign on your behalf. See, we'll never sign on our own. We only sign after we get authority from the respective committee or from Your Divine Grace.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're only mechanical signers.

Prabhupāda: Very good. Make the body centered.

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Dr. Kapoor came?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dr. Kapoor was there this morning. I was not there during the part where he spoke, but apparently he spoke some Māyāvādī philosophy, this Dr. O.B.L. Kapoor.

Gurukṛpā: He said that everything is made of molecules, and molecules are invisible; therefore actually everything is invisible. Therefore everything is like a dream, everything is unreal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is the result of all of his years of study in order to write his book. He's become a Māyāvādī. Or at least his... Mādhava dāsa, our Mādhava dāsa, he got up and completely defeated him.

Gurukṛpā: If everything is invisible, then he should also become invisible.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Acyutānanda Mahārāja said, "Then someone should have got up and said, 'Then why are you speaking if it is all a dream? Why are you even talking? Then your talking is also a dream, so why not sit down?' "

Bhavānanda: He said, "If everything is invisible, then how about me taking this invisible chair and smashing it over your invisible head?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Doctor Kapoor is really something.

Prabhupāda: He has become Māyāvādī.

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm? No cover.

Bhavānanda: No cover?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The main thing, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is that you get some strength. You were sleeping so much, and you weren't getting any better. The sleeping is necessary, but you shouldn't sacrifice. In order to sleep you should not sacrifice those things which give strength and which take away this disease. You have to get strength, get rid of the disease, and be able to rest nicely. That we have seen, that the kavirāja's medicine is not so effective, neither simply doing without any medicine is so effective. We have not tried allopathic medicine, because within a day or two you always stop it. Whenever you take for one day, then you say, "No more." I think that this... If you want to get better, you have to take some cure. No cure—that is not good. And switching from one thing to the other, that is also not good. Why not follow some series of cure, regular, and stay with it for some time? We're not going to let anything severe be done. That's for sure. And Dr. Ghosh has come very long distance, and this other doctor he is taking the help of is supposed to be very expert doctor. So in such a critical condition, why not take the help? What can be gained by again changing to this Vanamali? Just because there was a little inability for sleep, why should you give up all of the, you know, regimentations which they're prescribing? Just like sometimes...

Prabhupāda: No, they say "You drink this, drink this, drink this."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But Prabhupāda, unless you drink a...

Prabhupāda: No. That's all right, but the drinking forcibly, that is a great botheration.

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So how can I take constantly?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It may be bothersome, but it's not so bothersome as being in this ill condition. In order to get better, it seems to me that it's going to be some botheration in order to get better.

Prabhupāda: No, no, bother... What botheration? I cannot take so much.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: See, it would be easier if we only had to give you three or four times in a day, but you take so little at a time...

Prabhupāda: What can I do?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can't you...? I mean...

Bhavānanda: They said that one of the symptoms of this infection is—this poisoning—is that you become averse to taking any liquid or any food. Just like you're expressing your aversion that you're not able to. But actually you are able to, but you don't want to. But you have to force yourself in order to get better.

Prabhupāda: Then, then the same problem comes, and they will forcibly...

Bhavānanda: (whispering) Hospital.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But, Prabhupāda, one thing is that if you expect to simply naturally feel like doing this or that, how can you expect something..., to feel naturally hungry if you're ill? Unless the disease goes away... Then naturally you'll feel like drinking and eating. Just like you described to us, when a person is not Kṛṣṇa conscious he has to force himself to get up early, force himself to chant, force himself to go to ārati. Naturally he doesn't feel like these things in the conditioned stage. So similarly, when one is in a diseased condition, naturally he won't feel like taking the medicine or taking the necessary foodstuffs. But if he doesn't force himself, then he can't get out of that diseased condition.

Prabhupāda: So that condition is finished. I have no stamina to force.

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I say the people who have to sign are here in Vṛndāvana.

Guest (1): So you have got bank account here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we can collect through the bank here. But first of all we have to get the certificates in order to sign them. That you have to explain to Prabhupāda. He's thinking that without signing...

Prabhupāda: Yes. They'll collected here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But, Prabhupāda, your sister first of all signed them. Her son collected, but she signed on the back first of all.

Prabhupāda: Did the...

Guest (1): (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Guest (1): If you have already power of attorney, then I think that...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We already have power of attorney for signing any kind of..., these kind of businesses, joint power of attorney.

Prabhupāda: In Mathurā why don't you go just now? He is also going?

Guest (1): (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: See, first you have to have the certificates. That's what I'm trying to explain to Prabhupāda. This is only an identity slip. This has to be surrendered with the certificates.

Guest (1): To any post office.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right.

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Or Sanskrit.

Hari-śauri: That was text 41. "The unsuccessful yogi, after many, many years of enjoyment on the planets of the pious living entities, is born into a family of righteous people or into a family of rich aristocracy." Then the next verse,

athavā yoginām eva

kule bhavati dhīmatām

etad dhi durlabhataraṁ

loke janma yad īdṛśam

(BG 6.42)

"Or he takes his birth in a family of transcendentalists, who are surely great in wisdom. Verily, such a birth is rare in this world."

tatra taṁ buddhi-saṁyogaṁ

labhate paurva-dehikam

yatate ca tato bhūyaḥ

saṁsiddhau kuru-nandana

(BG 6.43)

"On taking such a birth, he again revives the divine consciousness of his previous life, and he tries to make further progress in order to achieve complete success, O son of Kuru." (break) ...telegram came today. It didn't give the exact time, but it came from Bhuvaneśvara.

Prabhupāda: He was there?

Hari-śauri: Yes. He was working with Gaura-Govinda Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: He is... He was coming from Australia.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So, then I've also informed them in the letter that the proprietor of the company—and I mentioned your name—that we have given you the counterfoil identity slips and also that we have given you the receipt for the safe custody. These certificates were kept in safe custody, so we're giving you the receipt, because it says that in order for these... Of course the bank can do everything, but you can deliver these identity slips and the safe custody receipt to the bank.

Vrindavan De: To my banker?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, not to your banker. To Prabhupāda's bank, the Bank of Baroda. Then I also mentioned that I am enclosing a copy of the power of attorney, that "Prabhupāda has been ill so he has difficulty in signing and he has duly empowered the following two persons." And that power of attorney will also be sent to them. So I'm also going to write a letter to Chandra requesting him to give Vrindavan help, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So he will carry all these letters.

Prabhupada Vigil -- November 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. (whispering) Why "phish-phish"? Why not talk?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Why whispering?" Upendra was saying that not going is all right, but the fact that you are rejecting medicine, that is not good. So I was saying that I don't really think that you're rejecting the medicine, but you're taking that position so that we settle in between. (laughing) I can understand that you appreciate that the medicine is doing some good, but in order to get us to agree...

Brahmānanda: It is you who were saying that by Prabhupāda's not going, then we're at a loss for medicine. So then Prabhupāda said, "All right, then no medicine."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Also Prabhupāda's saying no medicine so that if we say, "All right, stay, but take the medicine," then Prabhupāda will...

Bhakti-caru: He'll agree to that, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Transcendental bargaining. (laughs) Śrīla Prabhupāda, I have seen you dealing with the most tricky people in the world. I saw you dealing with that Mr. Nair, and then with that other man, Mr. Ratnaparki? So I can understand that when you say, (laughs) "No medicine at all," that we will then simply say, "Well, please, Śrīla Prabhupāda, just take medicine and then you stay here," and you'll say, "All right." (laughs)

Prabhupāda: I want simply once parikrama.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What can be done?

Jagadīśa: Do you feel better, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Little more strength?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, the strength is not supposed to come yet. You shouldn't expect strength yet, because strength can't come unless you eat. There's no reason for him to feel strong, because he isn't eating yet. The kavirāja explained that in order for Prabhupāda to eat, first of all the liver and the kidneys have to be properly healed. Then automatically there will be appetite. If there's appetite, then Prabhupāda will eat. (break)

Bhakti-caru: (Bengali) Gaura-govinda Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Gaura-govinda: It's okay. Bhāgavata has arrived. Bhāgavata has arrived, so I came to have darśana.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Gaura-govinda: We have been to Jagannātha Purī, and some jagannātha-prasāda we have brought for you. Will you take some?

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) What work he gives? (Bengali)

Gaura-govinda: Now we'll begin construction. Our architect-engineer, Samjata, was there. He was making plans, but unfortunately he passed away the last 23rd. So...

Prabhupāda: What happened?

Gaura-govinda: He suffered from fever. He had some fever, high fever. So he fell unconscious. The doctor came and gave some medicine. The fever was checked, but he gave some high-power medicines that affected his brain, and so he couldn't speak. He just collapsed and stayed still. We came to the hospital that night. Doctor tried his best. He gave saline and oxygen. He stayed the whole night, but at the daybreak he passed away, when the morning came, just on the morning, 23rd morning. It was ekādaśī day. That day he passed away. The day Bhāgavata reached. The very moment Bhāgavata reached there, he passed away.

Prabhupāda: Doctor gives treatment, not reliable. They make experiment.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...moment I am sick. When I am well enough, I shall do something. Hm? Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that's a very proper answer. So in order for you to be able to do something, they should pray to Jagannātha. Śrīla Prabhupāda? Girirāja is here.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Girirāja?

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: How is your health?

Girirāja: Oh, I'm better, improved.

Prabhupāda: What is the news of Nepal?

Girirāja: Oh, well, they have a very nice program there. They have a nice house with many rooms, and the Nepalese people...

Prabhupāda: How many rooms?

Girirāja: About nine big rooms. And they do street saṅkīrtana every day in the main street, and they distribute literature. And the Society is not yet registered there, but I went with Prabhaviṣṇu to a lawyer, and we've set up the formalities for getting registered, but the government is presently reviewing the registration law, so it might take a few weeks before they accept our case.

Prabhupāda: On the whole, it is favorable.