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In order to... (Conversations 1967 - 1975)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Hayagrīva: This is His determination to incarnate as Lord Caitanya.

Prabhupāda: Lord Caitanya, yes.

Hayagrīva: In order to...

Prabhupāda: In order to appreciate Kṛṣṇa in the form of gopī. Just like I have got dealings with you. So you have got your individuality, I have got my individuality, but if I want to study how you are so much obedient and loving to me, then I have to go to your position. It is very natural psychology. Yes. You have to paint in that way.

Hayagrīva: I think that's clear.

Prabhupāda: Huh? That's clear. Accha. Then fourth scene is lunar eclipse. You'll have to arrange a scene that just in the evening there is appearance of the full moon on the side of the Ganges and people are taking bath half in the water and half above the water, and they're all chanting, this same scene, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, with mṛdaṅga and... Yes. So somebody comes, Advaita. Advaita comes in the scene to take bath in the Ganges and begins to dance. "Oh, my mission is now fulfilled! My mission is now fulfilled!" He'll talk. He was very sorry to see the condition of the people that everyone is engaged simply for material sense gratification. Nobody is engaged in love of Godhead. So he wanted to rectify their behavior, but he thought that "I am ordinary man, what can I do? If Kṛṣṇa Himself comes, then He can do it." Therefore he worshiped Kṛṣṇa, and he simply offered Ganges water and tulasī leaf. In this way Kṛṣṇa has taken His incarnation as Lord Caitanya. So he has understood now at this moment Lord Caitanya is now taken His appearance. So he was dancing, "Now my mission is fulfilled. Now my mission is fulfilled."

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- March 9, 1968, San Francisco:
Prabhupāda: Now, the idea is that we take the remnants of food offered to Kṛṣṇa. Now, when you offer something to some respectable person, you ask him, "What can I offer you?" If I go to your house and if you want to offer me something to eat, you will ask me what I wish to eat. That is the etiquette. So similarly, we have to offer Kṛṣṇa what Kṛṣṇa likes to eat. So how we can know? In this book we have the things, what Kṛṣṇa wants. He says, "You give Me foodstuff, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ (BG 9.26) fruits, flowers, grains, milk, like that." So our diet is Kṛṣṇa prasādam. Therefore... Kṛṣṇa wants these things. We prepare these things, and we eat the remnants of food. If Kṛṣṇa says that "You give me meat," then we can offer Kṛṣṇa meat also. But Kṛṣṇa does not say that. Kṛṣṇa says, "Give Me fruits, flowers, grains." So we have no quarrel with the meat-eaters. Let them do whatever he likes. But our concern is that unless Kṛṣṇa takes, we don't take. So in order to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, this is necessary, just like an important segment of the work. We cannot accept anything which is not offered to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore this diet, this sort of diet, as you have tasted in our love feast, that is important. We cannot take outside the scope. So in that sense, diet is important. Besides that, from health point of view also, you require a balanced food—carbohydrate, starch, protein, and fat. That is scientific.
Comment on Painting -- May 9, 1968, Boston:

Prabhupāda: I have to thank Jadurāṇī for nice pictures. She is giving us light about spiritual understanding. So Kṛṣṇa will bless her with greater energy for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Thank you. So this picture, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, with His associates just joined into the picture... Rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī śaktir asmād ekātmānāv api bhuvi purā deha-bhedaṁ gatau tau (CC Adi 1.5). It is a very great science. The Absolute is one, but in order to enjoy transcendental bliss... (end)

Prabhupada Comments on Prahlada Maharaja Slides - August 25, 1968, Montreal:
Prabhupāda: So when the gods became victorious, Hiraṇyakaśipu, his wife was arrested. At that time, his wife was pregnant, and the demigods arresting the wife of Hiraṇyakaśipu were dragging her to take her into their, I mean to say, planet. In the meantime, Nārada Muni met. Nārada Muni asked them, "What you are doing? This innocent woman you are dragging?" They replied that, "The woman is innocent, I know," the head of the demigods, Indra, "but she is pregnant, and the child is born of the demon. So we shall keep this woman under our custody, and as soon as the child is born we shall kill him. That is our program. We are not going to do any harm to the woman." So Nārada Muni informed that "This child, although he's born of a demon father, he's a great devotee. He's a great devotee, and do not try to kill. Neither you can kill him. This is not possible." But the demigods, they accept the instruction of the authority. Nārada is an authority. So immediately they accepted that "This woman has got a child who is a great devotee." So in order to show respect to the child, they offered their obeisances and circumambulated the mother and they left the woman. They went to their own places. And Nārada advised the wife of Hiraṇyakaśipu, "My dear daughter, you don't worry. I shall give you protection. Your husband has gone away. So long he does not come back, I will give you protection. You come to my āśrama." So he took the woman to his āśrama, and as it is the duty of saintly persons to instruct about God and His activities, so he was daily explaining about God and His activities, and the child was hearing from the womb of his mother. The mother was anxious to give protection to the child, but the child was fortunate that he was hearing directly from the Nārada. And as a result of this, when the child came out of the womb of his mother he became a great devotee... (break) So will it go on, still more?
Questions and Answers -- September 6, 1968, New York:

Prabhupāda: One who loves Kṛṣṇa without inquiry, that is nice position. To inquire about Kṛṣṇa is knowledge. And pure devotion is transcendental to knowledge. Love does not depend on the greatness. If a boy loves a girl or the girl loves a boy, even in this material field, it does not depend on the greatness of the boy. Of course, here everything is on material consideration. But actual love is without any consideration, what He is or what He isn't. That is real love. That is the perfectional stage of love, without inquiring how great He is or what He is. But for the neophytes it is necessary to know about Kṛṣṇa. Because we have no love, so if we understand that Kṛṣṇa is so great, then gradually we can love. Our position is different because when... Therefore Caitanya-caritāmṛta, it is said that siddhānta boliya citte na kara ālasa: "Try to understand about Kṛṣṇa." Just like Kṛṣṇa is explaining in Bhagavad-gītā that "I am this amongst the trees. I am this. I am this planet. Amongst this, I am this. I am this." So just to impress upon the neophyte devotees about the greatness... And those who are advanced devotees, they do not want to see whether Kṛṣṇa is great or small. They simply love Him. That's all. That is pure love. In Vṛndāvana, at least these gopīs, they never saw Kṛṣṇa's any jugglery or any greatness. But they still love, pure love. Pure love means

anyābhilāśitā-śūnyaṁ
jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam
ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu
śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā
(Brs. 1.1.11)

Without any cultivation of knowledge, without any activities of fruitive action, without any desire, simply to love Kṛṣṇa in order to please Him—that is the highest perfectional stage of devotion. There is no consideration "Whether Kṛṣṇa is God or not, whether we are getting benefit or not." "Simply we love Kṛṣṇa." That is the perfectional stage.

Interview with LA Times Reporter About Moon Trip -- December 26, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: If it is suitable. First thing that if it is suitable you can land. But to my opinion it is not suitable. Therefore you cannot land.

Reporter: Well... So then you are not saying then that it would be impossible for...

Prabhupāda: That I never say. I say in the beginning that in order to enter moon planet you have to get a suitable type of body. That suitable type of body is not that spacesuit. Therefore the conclusion is that you cannot enter with this spacesuit. Is it clear?

Reporter: That part is clear, but not if other questions are asked.

Prabhupāda: Other questions you may ask. Other, that is future hope. That is not a fact. You are trusting in future that with this spacesuit you will be able to enter there. That you are believing. But similarly, I have got my belief from the authoritative scripture that you cannot.

Reporter: Well, all I know is what they plan to do and what they've done so far. So in view of what they hope to do, that's...

Prabhupāda: Well, that hoping... That hoping also, from practical point of view... Just like the other day the information was they were sixty miles off from the moon planet and still they could not enter. I do not know what kind of statement it is. If you go to some place just sixty miles off from that place and you are trying for so many years, you should be inquisitive. "Oh, let me go there sixty miles further. Let me see."

Interview with LA Times Reporter About Moon Trip -- December 26, 1968, Los Angeles:

Hayagrīva: He has some doubts about the means they're using to go there. He doesn't think that the...

Reporter: I think what... I think we have to carry it further enough so that we can tell whether, for one thing whether I have a story or not. If it's felt if you have doubts that it can be done, that's one thing. But if you have great confidence that it can never be done except by changing one's body...

Prabhupāda: No, I don't say that. I say that in order to enter into the... Just try to understand me clearly. In order to enter the moon planet you have got to prepare yourself for a suitable body. Is that clear? If you, by some way or other, you make that suitable body you can enter. But the present body which you have manufactured, the spacesuit, is not suitable.

Reporter: Okay, then when I try to carry it further, if they use the present body and do, are successful...

Prabhupāda: That they could not do till now. That is future contemplation. Because even going up to sixty miles off they could not. Therefore this is not suitable. Now you say also, just like they didn't have the ticket. The further arrangement is still waiting. That means this is not suitable. This is... We just try to convince you.

Reporter: Do you think that any improvements in the spacesuit...

Prabhupāda: That is future hope. Not the present suit. I say the present suit is not suitable.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 11, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Kīrtanānanda: You can use those machines if you want. If you want to live in the so-called American style, that is so. But if you're willing to adopt the Vedic way of minimizing the material needs in order to pursue Kṛṣṇa consciousness, what does one need? He needs sufficient food to keep the body healthy and a place to lay down. So four acres is plenty.

Allen Ginsberg: Where do you get the... How do you feed the cow, or would you?

Kīrtanānanda: On four acres you can do it.

Allen Ginsberg: You can get enough hay for a cow, for...?

Prabhupāda: Fodder. Yes. We grow.

Guest: On food, it depends on what part of the east?

Allen Ginsberg: He's a farmer.

Guest: Whereabouts? What part? Cause a cow has to have about three acres for grazing.

Kīrtanānanda: So at most five acres. It's in that vicinity.

Allen Ginsberg: See we are interested in this problem of minimizing.

Prabhupāda: So let us cooperate.

Meeting with Devotees -- June 9, 1969, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: You get it. Then I give you direction and make it nicely, and you print it, nice paper. We have to make propaganda.

Hayagrīva: Well, in order to develop the place properly, we're going to need people who are dedicating themselves, not just fly-by-night, people who come and stay for a week and then go.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they will come.

Hayagrīva: But we're going to need people who stay here permanently.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Some people will... At least fifty men should live here permanently. That I shall arrange.

Hayagrīva: Fifty.

Prabhupāda: Fifty at least. Otherwise this big property, how it can be managed? At least fifty men. At least. It may go to two hundred.

Kīrtanānanda: On this property?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say if you are serious student, then you study Sanskrit, original.

John Lennon: Study Sanskrit? Oh, now you're talking.

George Harrison: But Vivekananda said that books and rituals and dogmas and temples are secondary details, anyway. He said they're not the most important thing, anyway. You don't have to read the book in order to have the perception.

Prabhupāda: Then why Vivekananda wrote so many books? (laughter)

George Harrison: Well, it's the same as in the Gītā.

Prabhupāda: No, no. He said there is no use of books. Then why he wrote so many books?

George Harrison: But in Hrishikesh, when we meditated for a long time, one man got tired of meditation, and he thought... He made the excuse to read the Gītā so he could come out of meditation, and he opened the Gītā and it said, "Don't read books. Meditate."

Prabhupāda: Who says?

George Harrison: The Gītā said it.

Prabhupāda: "Don't read books"?

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Śāstra-vākya-pramāṇa. And it should be known through the spiritual master. Just like nowadays Bhagavad-gītā is being interpreted in so many foolish ways because they do not accept explanation from the authority. They become themselves authorities. Therefore misused. That is not explanation. Somebody is explaining that Kurukṣetra means this body, pañca-pāṇḍava means the senses. These are all nonsense. You have to accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is. When you cannot understand, you should get it explained by your spiritual master. Therefore one has to accept a spiritual master to understand. Tad-vijnanārtham. In order to understand that transcendental science one must approach a bona fide spiritual master. That is injunction. So here it is said that kānyakubje dvijaḥ. Dvijaḥ means he was offered the sacred thread. That means he was born in a brāhmaṇa family. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ. Everyone is born a śūdra, a foolish. Sudra means a foolish man who simply laments. That is the real meaning of śūdra. Anyone who has no intelligence, he is śūdra. We also generally say, gadāh, less intelligent. So brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, they are called higher caste. According to their... Brāhmaṇa, first-class because his intelligence is first-class. Kṣatriya, his intelligence is second-class. Vaiśya, his intelligence is third-class. And śūdra means fourth-class. And less than śūdra, they are called pañcama, caṇḍāla. They are accepted as animals, those who are less than śūdras. This is the Vedic system.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:
Prabhupāda: So much cheating is going on everywhere, all over the world. So-called yogis, they go, "Oh, you meditate. You are... And as soon as you realize, you are God, within six months." No. Therefore in this age the only method... It is a concession to the fallen people of this world, this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. They 'll not be able to follow all the regulative principles; therefore they must commit all kinds of abominable activities. Under the circumstances the śāstra or God has given a concession that you simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and gradually you will be elevated to the highest position of spiritual life. Other things you cannot follow. You are already fallen. So you take to this process of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra without any offense. And in order to save yourself from the offenses, a little austerity that you cannot have illicit sex life. Why should you have illicit sex life? Everyone's need is sex life. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam. These are the bodily needs. So śāstra has sanctioned, "All right. You can live peacefully by married life and have sex life for children, good children." That is allowed. But why should you have illicit sex life? What is this? Irresponsible life. "I shall not take responsibility of family life, and I shall go on as so-called bachelor and have illicit life." But that is not good. That is garhitāṁ. Na sādhu mānye: "This is not good." This is the advice of Vedic literature.
Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then what is the use of making friendship with Kṛṣṇa if you cannot do so? There was a rich man in Calcutta, Motilal Sill. He was so rich that... Every man has different circle in younger days. So he would see. If any of his friends did not possess a house in Calcutta, he would purchase house. He said that, "If people say, 'Oh, you are friend of Motilal Sill. You have no your own house?' what people will say about me? He must have his own house." He purchased house for him. He was very big man. And there are many incidences also like, a very noble story. Actually it was not long ago, say about hundred years ago. He would not see that any one of his associates, friends, does not possess a house in Calcutta. Another Kṛṣṇa's friend, Sudama also. (chuckles) He could not recognize his own place, how it had happened, palatial buildings, garden. In Kṛṣṇa, you have not read Sudama? Give me water.

Yamunā: (indistinct) mentions in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya that a devotee in attachment selects one of the Vṛndāvana..., the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana, and follows in his footsteps in order to be successful in his own devotional service. Does that mean that one of our spiritual masters is an eternal representative of Vṛndāvana? (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: What is that? Let me...

Yamunā: It says, "All inhabitants of Vrajabhūmi, Vṛndāvana, are very dear to Kṛṣṇa. A devotee in attachment selects one of the inhabitants and follows in his footsteps in order to be successful."

Prabhupāda: Devotee... Devoted to the Vṛndāvana inhabitants. You don't directly think of yourself that "I shall see Kṛṣṇa as my son."

Yamunā: No.

Prabhupāda: No.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Still, they are not closed.

Guest (1): Closed... Today they are coming to that.

Prabhupāda: That is another theory. But the process is, our Vedic process, tad-vijñānārtham sa gurum eva abhigacchet: (MU 1.2.12) "In order to understand tat knowledge one must approach a spiritual master." Gacchet. If you don't accept these principles, then how you can make progress? Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsur śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). If you don't accept this principle, there is no possibility. Then you can go on thinking in your own way. There is no question of going to anyone. You make yourself perfect by thinking, as many others are doing, speculating. That is possible but never to the perfectional point.

Guest (1): Perfectly, you see... What is the category of different perfection?

Prabhupāda: That you have to learn. That you have to learn.

Guest (1): No, no, learn from whom?

Prabhupāda: From the higher authority.

Guest (1): So how we know?

Prabhupāda: That is another thing, who is higher authority. That you have to search out. That you have to search out.

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Guest (1): I did not take that...

Prabhupāda: No, no, I don't mean you. Anyone. Anyone. If for ordinary things we have to call for an expert, to understand God is it not necessary to approach an expert? What do you think, Manuel?

Manuel: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: That is... Therefore the Vedas says, tad-vijñānārthaṁ: "In order to know that transcendental science," sa gurum evābhigacchet, "he must go to a guru. He must approach." A guru means not bogus guru. One who knows expert. But one has to do that. There is no other alternative. That is the injunction of every Vedic śāstra. And this order is from the Kathopaniṣad. Then, on the Bhagavad-gītā the same thing is said, tad viddhi praṇipātena (BG 4.34). Praṇipāta means surrender. Surrender where? Where to surrender? To a coolie? No, to a superior person, guru. Similarly, Bhāgavata says, tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsur śreya uttamam: (SB 11.3.21) "One who is inquisitive to understand the spiritual science," tasmād, "therefore," guruṁ prapadyeta, "must surrender to a guru." Just our, this morning prayer is guru, beginning of life, beginning of day's work, first worshiping guru.

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:
Prabhupāda: So in our, this Vedic way of life, to accept guru is essential. Even big, big ācārya... Even Kṛṣṇa, He accepted guru, Sandipani Muni. Lord Caitanya accepted guru, Īśvara Purī. They are perfect, but still, the ways They are showing because They are ācārya. Kṛṣṇa is teaching, taking the part of the ācārya, so he is also accepting, although the fact is as soon as went to, within a few days He learned everything. That is stated in our Kṛṣṇa Book. Within a few days He became expert warrior, expert magician, expert yogi, every..., so many things, all arts. But He learned from a guru. He is perfect Himself, Kṛṣṇa. He is called Yogesvara. He knows all the yoga process, but still, in order to teach us, because He is playing the part of a teacher, He shows us that you must learn from guru. "I am learning from guru." So any science, you cannot learn it automatically by yourself. No, that is not. Then we shall create so many mental speculators, so many things. That will be not a science. Even all scientists, they accept a formula from an authority: "law of gravitation." They accept it. Then their physical, so many things they discover. But accept one formula. Just like this formula is given by Sir Isaac Newton. So they accept guru. So from all practical point of view, the things which are unknown to us, we have to accept a guru, for things unknown to us. Now, there is another verse. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. Abodha-jātaḥ. We are all born ignorant. Is it not? What do you think? Are we not born fools? Is it not?
Room Conversation -- February 17, 1971, Gorakhpur:

Guest: That should not be for ours.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa says, kuruṣva mad-arpaṇam, yat karoṣi. "Whatever you do, the result should be given to Me." Do for it. "Do for for Me." Yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi yad aśnāsi yat tapasyasi dadāsi yat (BG 9.27). So this requires training, how everything can be molded for Kṛṣṇa. Therefore guidance required, bona fide spiritual master required. Under his guidance, one has to do. Ādau gurvāśrayam. In order to execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one has to first of all accept a bona fide spiritual master. Then everything will be done. He is representative of Kṛṣṇa, and to act under his direction means acting under Kṛṣṇa. He knows how to utilize your energy for service of Kṛṣṇa. Ādau gurvāśrayam sad-dharma-pṛcchat sādhu-mārgānugāmanam. Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī, he was prime minister. He had no information of Kṛṣṇa, but since he saw... Of course, Rūpa Gosvāmī is eternally Kṛṣṇa's companion, but superficially he was showing that he was a prime minister and he was engaged in Nawab's service. But when he met Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then he decided that "I shall retire from this service and act Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission." So what did he do? Whatever money he collected by his service—it was huge amount-fifty percent he immediately spent for Kṛṣṇa. And fifty..., twenty-five percent he gave to the relatives, and twenty-five percent he kept for his emergency expenditure. So this division, fifty percent for Kṛṣṇa means the whole life he acted as a minister, that means he acted for Kṛṣṇa. Because the result is given to Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa says, yat karoṣi kuruṣva tad mad-arpaṇam. Is it clear? But our business is... Suppose I am earning for my livelihood. Everyone is working for... Livelihood requires only six annas per day. But he is earning six thousand per day, and he says, "It is my livelihood." Is it not fact? Very, very... Many, many big businessmen, they are earning six thousand per month...per day. But actually, for his livelihood he requires six annas. Why he's earning six thousand? Then Kṛṣṇa says, "Give it to Me." Yat karoṣi kuruṣva tad mad-arpaṇam.

Darsana -- June 28, 1971, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: So give one man from each center. It doesn't require that he is very advanced. Advancement will be done by training, by practical application in life. If you send from each center one man to India... If you can send more, that's all right. But at least one man. In India we have got many things to do. Because the business in India is important in this respect, that partly due to their subjugation by foreigners, their original culture has been killed. Just like in India, they did not know drinking tea, drinking wine, meat-eating, illicit sex. They did not know. Even fifty, a hundred years before, they did not know. These Britishers, in order to control them, very silently introduced all these things. I know in our childhood, this drinking of tea was unknown to any family. Meat-eating, there was no question. Just like in my life, I do not know what is meat-eating, do not know womanizing(?) or illicit sex life, because we are trained in that way. So due to foreign domination, they were killed; and after independence, these rascal leaders, they are killing it: "What is the wrong in meat-eating? What is the wrong in drinking?" They are canvassing: "Eat chickens, eat eggs,." This is going on. So at the present moment there is great propaganda from the side of the government and others to kill India's original culture.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Dr. Weir: Well, I think it's inherent in your definition of something that's omnipotent, that it's very like saying it's necessary to have no beginning in order to have no end. It's really a concept. Whether it exists or not it doesn't matter.

Mensa Member: Yes. Then even negatives imply limitation. If something has only positive attributes, it's limited if you exclude negative attributes. Or is that just a...

Dr. Weir: Well no, if something has all attributes, the only cause or call them to be caused, positive or negative because we have a tendency to want to think in terms of dichotomies, good and bad, whereas, really if you're a scientist you say this exists. It's only when morals come in, you say some things are good and some things are bad, and you start making antinomies. Really your Godhead would contain all those things, and to Him there's no such thing as good or evil, but to Him they are all of value. It's man who saw the good and evil.

Mensa Member: I wasn't particularly thinking of the good and evil. I was simply thinking of negative attributes.

Dr. Weir: Well, I'm sorry, I don't know quite what you mean, unless you define the negative attribute, I'm not quite sure what it is.

Mensa Member: Not beginning.

Dr. Weir: Well that, with good respect, I think, doesn't really follow because there're some things that don't have opposites or negatives although (in) nature. This is what I say that there are certain categories of things to which if somebody said, "Now what's the opposite of that?" You'd have to say, "There isn't an opposite," because it isn't the sort of thing to have an opposite.

Mensa Member: So you wouldn't accept the prime mover either?

Dr. Weir: Well, it's not an argument, it's a postulate. I don't accept it. I mean, you have to accept it if you're going to... You know the (indistinct), so to speak. You can't have it half way.

Prabhupāda: This word positive and negative. Just like the sun—the backside is the negative and the front side is the positive, light and darkness.

Dr. Weir: Well the sun doesn't have a backside of darkness. It's light all round.

Prabhupāda: I mean to say, in relationship with the sun, the planet, the planet, in the front side there is light. In the backside there is darkness. But the darkness is the effect of the light. Where the light is absent there is darkness.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: What Kṛṣṇa has said, that is not scripture.

Dr. Weir: No, but, if it's written somewhere I can read that, I don't need anybody else to tell me.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But if it is accepted by the great ācāryas that He's God then there is no doubt. If Kṛṣṇa is accepted God, by all the ācāryas, bona fide ācāryas, authorities.

Śyāmasundara: Well, I think what Prabhupāda is saying is that a spiritual master is requisite in order to transmit knowledge even though it may be revealed in the scriptures to the student, according to the time and place. Just like someone may be able to read in a book about how to perform a brain operation, but unless there's a master there to transmit that knowledge into reality, it's useless. It can't be performed.

Dr. Weir: That merely means, you might say, if you're going to be very thorough and precise, that the, it could be explained in greater detail, but it's easier to do it with a master. But you can go to a foreign language by reading a book, although it's much easier if you're...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like here is the medicine, diabetic. So I have accepted this medicine through a bona fide doctor. Although it is meant for diabetes, I have not accepted this medicine, neither it is advised that this medicine should be accepted by a bona fide physician. So I cannot see properly whether it is good for me. But when the physician, qualified physician, says, "Yes, it is bona fide. You can use it in this way." That is right.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Śyāmasundara: It's said that as one progresses more in spiritual life he becomes simpler and more innocent, but in the beginning he may have had to comprehend it on some verbal level in order to (indistinct)

Dr. Weir: I often used say to my students that I've got to remember that if anything in life to realize the difference between simple and complicated, which is objective, and easy and difficult, which is subjective. In other words sometimes a simple thing may be terribly difficult for a person to get hold of. Whereas complicated things he may find quite easy.

Prabhupāda: So your student has to follow your instruction. That means accepts authority.

Dr. Weir: But even so, even if he's working something out for himself, it has that same..., to some people it comes terribly easily.

Prabhupāda: No. No. To accept authority does not mean one should be blind. But the real source of knowledge comes from authority.

Dr. Weir: You then reject the idea of a fear of God.

Prabhupāda: No, I don't reject. The thing is that perfect knowledge is received from the authority which… beyond the material defects.

Interview with Reporters -- November 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Certainly. Niyataṁ kuru karma tvaṁ karma jyāyo hy akarmaṇaḥ. Instead of sitting idle, if you act badly, that is good.

Reporter: Ah. There you are, sir.

Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa's advice. Kṛṣṇa does not say sit idly. Neither Arjuna was advised like that. Neither... Arjuna wanted to be nonviolent, sit idly. Kṛṣṇa never did so. Kṛṣṇa said, "Oh, you fight. You are kṣatriya. It is your duty." And in order to raise him to that fighting position, this position, He taught him Bhagavad-gītā. So don't think that Kṛṣṇa bhaktas are idle, sitting only. No. That is mistaken idea. Kṛṣṇa bhakta can do anything under the direction of Kṛṣṇa.

Reporter: You are not escapists?

Prabhupāda: No.

Reporter: Maharaja, please go on here helping us. You know, we are (indistinct). (laughter) (Hindi) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...me that "Your Vaiṣṇavism has killed India." And why? "No, Vaiṣṇava means inactive. They say simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and do nothing." Then "You have not seen a Vaiṣṇava," I told him.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation Vaisnava Calendar Description -- March 11, 1972, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: So Caitanya Mahāprabhu became very much glad to hear that Raghunātha Dāsa Gosvāmī is practicing so much renunciation. So all of a sudden one day He went to his room, "Raghunātha, I did not see you for so many days." Then He found out in a pot those collected rice were kept and immediately He took it, "Oh, you have got very nice rice here," and began to eat. Raghunātha Dāsa Gosvāmī immediately caught His hand, "Sir, it is not fit for Your eating." "Oh! I am eating so nice, you say it is not fit for Me?" That means Lord Caitanya encouraged him that "Don't be discouraged that this is bad, or this is not fit. I can eat, anyone can eat." In this way Raghunātha Dāsa Gosvāmī was elevated to a very exalted position amongst the Gosvāmīs. He is known as Dāsa Gosvāmī because he belonged to the kāyastha family and other Gosvāmīs, they belonged to brāhmaṇa families. Therefore, in order to keep his position as subordinate to the brāhmaṇas, he was known as Dāsa Gosvāmī. But it does not make any difference whether a brāhmaṇa is a Gosvāmī or a non-brāhmaṇa is a Gosvāmī, he is equally respected. This Raghunātha Dāsa Gosvāmī later on, after Lord Caitanya's disappearance he went to Vṛndāvana to associate with the other Gosvāmīs, and he remained mostly at Rādhā-kuṇḍa, and he passed his days at Rādhā-kuṇḍa. His tomb is there still in Rādhā-kuṇḍa and he has got established a temple, that is Raghunātha Dāsa Gosvāmī's temple. All the Gosvāmīs established some temple, separately. That temple is also there. (break) ...some of the instructions that such exalted personalities used to keep regular routine vow. Another thing that is also very difficult. At Rādhā-kuṇḍa Raghunātha Dāsa Gosvāmī did not eat every day. He would eat every alternate day, or maybe after two days, he would take a little butter, say about ten grains or twenty grains, and that was his foodstuff, and the whole day and night he would engage himself in chanting, in writing books. He did not write many books, but some of his prayers are very famous. Some prayers, mostly he was engaged in chanting, and offering obeisances, circumambulating. Raghunātha Dāsa Gosvāmī's life is so glorious. This should be discussed on that day. (indistinct).
Conversation with Author -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: When it will finish?

Devotee: Tonight it will be finished.

Author: I must start off from the beginning for the person who reads the book, and the beginning for the person who reads the book is: here are these people wearing these strange clothes and doing these strange things. Now, why? Now, that's what I've got to do in the book. And in order to do this it's necessary to describe some of these physical characteristics. And my reason for doing this is, in order to define what is relevant, it's necessary also to define what is irrelevant. That's pure logic.

Devotee: But Prabhupāda wants that you should have the highest understanding, not just looking at it from their point of view, but if you present it from our point of view, then it can gain the realest, greatest understanding.

Author: Well, with respect, I think that can only, we can only consider that question in practice. When I actually write the material, you'll have to...

Prabhupāda: No. I mean to say, why there is objection if they are dressed in a particular way?

Author: Oh, I'm not objecting to it at all. In fact, it's one of the most reasons why I'm most strongly in favor of the Hare Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: So they are Hare Kṛṣṇa people, they dress in a particular way. That is the answer. That's all.

Conversation with Author -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Author: Yes, well, I'm not trying to... Because I am not an adherent of... I'm not a Hare Kṛṣṇa movement member. That is obvious. And because I am not a member of the movement, I am therefore not trying to do precisely what you gentlemen are saying, but I'll not try to package an unwholesome product like poison...(laughter) Yes, I appreciate that. But what I am trying to do is to describe what is. Now this requires an exercise of the imagination. If you imagine somebody who is outside, as each of you people were at one stage, you came to understand what this movement was by a gradual process. Now I, in a book of about a hundred pages, am going to trace that process, not in the way you did it, but in a slightly different way. But the things that strikes one immediately are these external, superficial characteristics. And then one he comes to appreciate rather more important things. And it's just a question of stating these in that way. Now in order to understand the highest possible things, it surely is necessary to state the superficial things as well, the less important things. It seems to me to be clearly...

Upendra: What Prabhupāda is speaking tonight is very important and it might appear that he is not understanding you but he is actually speaking to you, like you said, necessary (indistinct) so that if you can assimilate everything Prabhupāda is saying tonight, you'll be able to write the book much more clearly. You might think that he is not understanding you, but he is speaking the most important part.

Author: I am not (indistinct) his understanding. I think he is worried about my understanding, which is why he is... Right. Well, I appreciate this, but I am trying to convince him that I am going to try to say accurately what your philosophy is. And in this I'll have to rely on your help, because I can't do it otherwise.

Prabhupāda: I have already explained our philosophy.

Author: I'm sorry, not explain. Describe, I think, is a rather better word.

Prabhupāda: That philosophy, if you want to know more, then we can speak more. But that is the outlines of the philosophy, that people, without knowledge of his identification, they are misled, being misled. And that is very risky. Risky means that you have got this opportunity of understanding your position and get out of the difficulties of birth, death, old age, and disease. If you do not properly use this opportunity and again you become cats and dogs, then are you not misled? So present civilization is misleading. They are concerned with a few years enjoyment, so-called enjoyment. Suppose you are Australian or American. You have got very nice status in your country, good house, good facility, good money, and that's all right. But after your death, when you have to quit this subtle atmosphere, then after your death what is happening to you, you are not concerned to know? If you are eternal, if you are eternal, then suppose you have got this shirt and coat. When it is torn down, when it is old enough, you have to give it up. Then you have to purchase another shirt and coat. So are you not prepared for that, "What kind of shirt and coat I shall have?"

Room Conversation -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Their argument is that physical necessity creates a chance, and we take advantage of the chance. But here there is no necessity. Nobody wants to die, nobody wants disease. Why these chances are coming to us without any necessity?

Śyāmasundara: If, for instance, in nature they saw a tree growing, they would say that by necessity this tree must die in order to replenish the soil so more trees can grow.

Prabhupāda: Then there is plan. As soon as you say that more trees can grow, that means there is plan. You cannot say chance.

Śyāmasundara: Nature can't be chance. If so many plants...

Prabhupāda: That plan is Kṛṣṇa's. That is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram: (BG 9.10) "Under My plan, under My superintendence, the nature is working. The changes of the world is going on for that reason." Hetunānena kaunteya jagad viparivartate: "All these changes are taking place on account of My supervision." So there is no question of chance. It is all planned, planned by the Supreme, daiva netreṇa, by superior arrangement.

Room Conversation -- April 18, 1972, Hong Kong:

Prabhupāda: That's very natural. It is costly here. But these children and their parents also very much interested. So I think you should have a nice institution here to train the children in this country. And after their education, they may take to any line of livelihood. That doesn't matter. But the foundation... Just like in our Vedic system, first of all brahmacārī. That brahmacārī system is very nice. Even Kṛṣṇa, God Himself, He has nothing to learn. He is abhijñā. In the Vedas He is described as abhijñā: He knows everything. But just to teach us, He also became a brahmacārī in the Gurukula. Lord Rāmacandra, He also accepted a guru, Vasiṣṭha. So that is our Vedic system. Anybody may be anything, but the process is tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In order to learn the value of life, spiritual value of life, one must go to a guru. Tad vijñānārtham. In order to understand the spiritual value of life one must go to a guru. Gurum evābhigacchet. What is that guru? Śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham: "He is well learned in Vedic literature," and brahma-niṣṭham, "and firm faith in the Supreme Personality of Godhead." These are the two qualifications of guru. He must know all the Vedic conclusions, śrotriyam, not that he has to read, but he must hear from the authoritative sources. Just like Arjuna is hearing from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the most authoritative personality. So similarly, everyone has to hear either from Kṛṣṇa or from His bona fide representative. That is śrotriyam. And the result will be that after becoming student of such bona fide guru, one will be firmly fixed up in God consciousness. That is the result, firmly fixed up. Now, these boys from foreign countries, according to our geographical arrangement, they are foreigners. But we don't see anything foreign. We see every land belongs to Kṛṣṇa and everyone is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Dai Nippon -- April 22, 1972, Tokyo:

Prabhupāda: Thank you. (Japanese)

Dai Nippon representative: After I asked Mr. Karandhara if he would like your organization to publish more and more books, he said yes, and in order to improve our service...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dai Nippon representative: In order to makes ourselves better, you know...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is success.

Dai Nippon representative: And Mr. Karandhara give us suggestion that Dai Nippon would open a liaison office in Los Angeles in order to save time and in order to make a good communication.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dai Nippon representative: And our president would like to hear of your opinion or comment on that suggestion.

Prabhupāda: So how do you think, that suggestion. What is your idea?

Dai Nippon representative: (Japanese) He would like to see our liaison office in Los Angeles... (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: So Karandhara, you speak.

Karandhara: Mr. Sumoto(?) and I already spoke at length about this and we came to the conclusion(?) that it would save us so much time in our communication. In that way we could expedite all of our work. So we were hoping... We were very enthusiastic about the idea of opening an office there.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Room Conversation with Dai Nippon -- April 22, 1972, Tokyo:

Dai Nippon representative: Hunting.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because king—the kṣatriya means royal order-they, sometimes they had to kill somebody. If somebody is criminal, "Cut off his head." So in order to become powerful in cutting head, so they had to practice hunting. Yes. This hunting was allowed to the kṣatriyas. There are four divisions: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, and śūdra. Four divisions means intelligent class, administrative class, mercantile class, and laborer class. So these kṣatriyas, they are royal order, giving protection to the citizens. And the brāhmaṇas giving good advice to the royal order. And the mercantile class, they work under the regulation of the royal order. And the worker class, they give simply service. (Japanese)

Dai Nippon representative: Year and a half ago, Mr. Tajima, he lose his son, twenty-eight years old.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I heard. In some accident?

Dai Nippon representative: By traffic accident.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation with Dai Nippon -- April 22, 1972, Tokyo:

Prabhupāda: (chants japa) So there are many Japanese vegetarian? Or he is only.

Dai Nippon Representative: Lately it is quite increasing in Japan, yes, becoming popular, because we have a lot of problems with pollution. We have a lot of social problem like pollution, traffic jam. So people, in order to keep good health, vegetarian is very good for health.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Vegetarian food is very nice. We can give you vegetable menu, three hundred items at least.

Dai Nippon representative: Three hundred?

Prabhupāda: Three hundred. Simply grains, fruits, and butter, that's all, and sugar. You give us these four items and we give you three hundred items. Yes. There is a ceremony in India, annakūṭa, Govardhana-pūjā. So in that ceremony, in each and every temple they prepare as many varieties as possible. Some of them prepare three thousand.

Dai Nippon representative: Three thousand.

Prabhupāda: Yes. For weeks they prepare. And the competition is the more items the temple prepares, he becomes... (break) And distribution, prasāda distribution, free of charges. It was a very nice system that nobody should remain hungry. That is the system. If there is any temple in any neighborhood, in that neighborhood nobody should remain hungry. The Vedic system is that in your house, a householder shall see that even a lizard in the house is not hungry. He must also be given food. Even there is a snake—nobody likes snake—but a Vedic householder has to call the snake and give him food. He also may not remain hungry. This is the... And these things will be explained in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that anything, wherever it is, on land, on the air, sky, within the water, everywhere, God's kingdom; and all living entities, they are God's sons. So everyone has got the right to take advantage of his father's property. This is Bhāgavata communism. The communists are thinking in terms of their own country. But we, a devotee, we think in terms of all living entities, wherever he is, either in the sky or in the land or in the water. These things are explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Everything, politics, sociology, religion, philosophy, science, astronomy—everything is there in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And we should not take this movement as a religious movement. It is not religious movement. It is a movement for understanding knowledge. Veda. Veda means knowledge. So religion, according to English dictionary, is a kind of faith. Faith you can change. You have faith today in something. Tomorrow you may change. So this is knowledge. Any human being must be interested with advancement of knowledge. So you are waiting to stop me?

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1972, Sydney:
Prabhupāda: "So Śukadeva Gosvāmī has recommended to Parīkṣit Mahārāja that in order to be fearless of death, one has to hear and chant and remember the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, by all means. He also mentions that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is sarvātmā. Sarvātmā means 'the Supersoul of everyone.' Kṛṣṇa is also mentioned as īśvara, the supreme controller who is situated in everyone's heart. Therefore, if some way or other we become attached to Kṛṣṇa, He will make us free from all danger. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that anyone who becomes a devotee of the Lord is never vanquished. Others, however, are always vanquished. 'Vanquished' means that after getting this human form of life, a person does not come out of the entanglement of birth and death, and thus he misses his golden opportunity. Such a person does not know where he is being thrown by the laws of nature.
Room Conversation -- May 4, 1972, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Martin: You have filled my cup, more than filled.

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. (break)

Devotee: I have one question I wanted to ask you. In Hawaii you said that the ocean was necessary in order to make the rain fall on the land, as a reservoir for fresh water, and that the salt was there to preserve the water from becoming bad.

Prabhupāda: So?

Devotee: So such huge body of water is required?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee: The oceans cover how much of the earth?

Martin: Three-fifths.

Devotee: Three-fifths of the earth's surface is ocean water. So that much is required to water two-fifths land?

Prabhupāda: No. The ocean is gradually... Water is required. Water is required. In our India, if somebody spends extravagantly, so it is compared with water: "Oh, you are spending like water." (end)

Conversation with the GBC -- May 25, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is the point. Our advancement means the more we meet opposing elements, "Oh, that is alright." Therefore preacher is the best devotee because he is a soldier. Just like government gives all importance to the fighting soldier. When there is war, all comforts for the soldier first, then the civil people. There was no butter in Germany, there was no butter. But the soldiers were profusely supplied with butter. And sometimes when the enemy attacks, they throw it away and go away and go to another shelter and still there is butter. That my Godbrother (indistinct) when he first came to India I asked him that, "I heard that you German people are very robust, stout and strong, why you are so thin and weak?" So he replied me in this way that, "In my childhood when I was eight years old weekly I was getting butter for (indistinct)". Everything was controlled, even for children. But the soldiers, there was no control. So that is, my point is, that those who are soldiers, fighting on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, they are brave soldiers. Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69). Kṛṣṇa says, "Nobody is dearer than him who is in the process of preaching this Bhagavad-gītā." So, in order to become very dear to Kṛṣṇa... Actually that is the position. So we must preach in that way—by our literature, by our magazine, by our books, by our speech, by our arrangements. Of course, very peacefully, we are not very (indistinct), becoming violent (indistinct). But by argument, by words, by our methods, by our preaching, we have to convince. So selected fifteen men, not twelve (indistinct). It may increase more. Now we have got very many centers, but the duty is very responsible. So as, so far the center is concerned, the local president is (indistinct) man. The GBC can supervise that things are going on. The first management is that each and every member in the temple is chanting sixteen rounds regularly and following the regulations, that's all. Otherwise we have no... That is our spiritual strength.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: But Hebrew... Hebrew, Indian, there are... The aims is the same—back to home, back to Godhead. The process may be different. The process may be different. Just like everyone wants some money. Without money he cannot exist. The process may be different, how he's earning money. Similarly, every religion, the aim is to go back to home, back to Godhead. Now the process may be different according to country, time, climate, men. That is another thing. But the... The same example. Either you are businessman or in service or working, craftsman, the aim is you require some money. Without money you cannot exist. This is crude example. Similarly, the aim is we are part and parcel of God. We... Unless we go back to home, back to Godhead, there cannot be any peace. That understanding is possible to develop in this human form of life, not in the animal form of life. Therefore every human being should take advantage of this human form of life and develop this idea of going back to home, back to Godhead. Either you do it through Hebrew religion or Christian religion or Hindu religion, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. If your aim is... Just like at the present moment people want money. If he gets money it doesn't matter in which way he gets the money. Money we must have. Similarly, the aim should be fulfilled. Either you fulfill it through the Hebrew or through Hindu or Christian or Mohammedan, it doesn't matter. But if the aim is missed, then you miss everything. That is the definition in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata,

dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ
viṣvaksena-kathāsu yaḥ
notpādayed yadi ratiṁ
śrama eva hi kevalam
(SB 1.2.8)

Everyone has got his particular type of religion or occupation. That's all right. Dharma. Svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsām. The result will be... By executing your particular type of religion, the result must be there. The result is "How I shall go back to home, back to Godhead." If that desire is not developed, it is simply waste of time. You may profess this religion or that religion or this religion, or that religion. It doesn't matter. You are simply wasting time by following the dogmas and ritualistic this or that. That will not help you. Phalena paricīyate. Whether you have come to this consciousness, "What I am? I am not matter; I am spirit. I have to go back to my spiritual." That... That is wanted. So either you may be Hebrew or may be Hindu or Christian. We want to see whether that consciousness has arisen. If it is not, then you have simply wasted time. Either you be Hindu or brāhmaṇa or this or that, it doesn't matter. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Simply wasting time.

Guest (2): But in order to really get any interest in any of these things, you should really believe that...

Prabhupāda: It is not a question of believe. It is question of fact.

Guest (2): ...that there is another world and that you go there or you come back and all. This is a belief, isn't it?

Prabhupāda: It is not belief. It is a fact. One who does not know, he thinks it is belief. That is ignorance.

Interview -- July 5, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: That, that we'll have to find, find later on. First of all the principle should be accepted that unless we hear from the perfect person, our knowledge is imperfect. First of all you have to agree to this point. Therefore you are going to your schools, colleges, universities, because at home who could learn everything? So why you are going to school, colleges and universities? That is not possible. Therefore the Vedic injunction is that in order to know that perfect knowledge, one has to approach the proper person, who is know as guru.

Guest (1): That's what I was getting at.

Guest (2): (aside) Could I ask a couple of questions now?

Devotee: Please. Yes.

Guest (2): Swami, please, I don't want to interrupt. I want to try and ask you a few questions (indistinct). I'm with (indistinct). Swami, what do you think accounts for the..., your popularity, popularity of the..., the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement sweeping America?

Prabhupāda: Because it is not due to my personality. I am presenting the truth as it is. It will appeal. Just like if you prepare some foodstuff with nice ingredients, it will be appealing to everyone, and if you prepare something obnoxious, it may be appealing to a certain section, not to all.

Interview -- July 20, 1972, Paris:

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) ...that's (indistinct) culture. Nobody's actually Christian.

Devotee: ...he wants to know when you elect someone into a social office... (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: This is our Vedic civilization that their life should be (indistinct).

Devotee: ...how a man such as yourself, in such a high position and such hierarchy was able to leave all this in order to bring this message to others?

Prabhupāda: No. It's not to be... Life is divided into four parts: brahmacārī, student, gṛhastha, householder, vānaprastha, retired life and sannyāsa. Everyone should follow this principle. First of all, as brahmacārī student he should learn sufficiently what is the value of life. Then, when he's a householder, he should live properly with husband, wife and children-properly. Then, after retired life, giving the responsibility of household life to grown-up children, he should take lessons from saintly persons. (indistinct) Then at the end he should take sannyāsa. Whatever knowledge he has gathered he must distribute by traveling from one place to another. This is Vedic civilization. Everyone should come out. Not that they should remain at home and drink and sleep for the whole life. This is Vedic civilization.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Now what is the explanation?

Scholar: Herein we find the history of the Bhagavad-gītā traced from a remote time when it was delivered to the royal order, the king of all planets. This science is especially meant for the perfection of the inhabitants, and therefore, the royal order should understand it in order to be able to rule the citizens and protect them from material bondage to lust. Human life is meant for cultivation of spiritual knowledge, the eternal relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and the executive heads of all states and all planets are obliged to impart this lesson to the citizens by education, culture and devotion. In other words, the executive heads of all states are intended to spread the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness so that the people may take advantage of this great science and pursue a successful path, utilizing the opportunity of the human form of life...

Prabhupāda: This Vivasvān is the original person of the kṣatriya family, Sūrya-vaṁśa.

Scholar: Sūrya-vaṁśa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Eh?

Devotee: Does he mention Vivasvān here? Should I read it?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Scholar: The sun is the king of the planets and the sun god (at present of the name Vivasvān) rules...

Prabhupāda: At the present moment, the president or the predominating person, his name is given, Vivasvān.

Scholar: He's a person. He's a man.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the chemists or the scientists, what they're thinking is, there are chemical elements, which are the materials necessary for staying the spirit soul within the..., so long as he is within the material world. So they're saying that these material elements—carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen—the main elements, somehow they combine together forming the living units, but our point is the chemicals are there, but in order to start the real nice house, the spirit soul has to enter within these chemical elements.

Prabhupāda: Yes. These chemical elements will already help him, by nature's way. Just like you put a seed on the earth. So other things necessary for fructifying that seed, that is already there. They will come to help it. That is already there. Just like the living entity in seed form is impregnated within the womb of the mother. The mother has got within the womb all ingredients. Body will develop. On account of the presence of the living entity, by the laws of nature, everything is there. A dog is forming dog's body, man is forming man's body. Why? Because everything is there. A cat is forming cat's body in the womb of the... Yathā yonir yathā bījam. You haven't got to search out. It is already there.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Eh? Eh?

Karandhara: The Māyāvādīs will not be able to be so philosophical in their next lives when they're dogs or cats.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Karandhara: They have to have a human body in order to enjoy that philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Their philosophy is that there is only one-God. So cats and dogs, that is God's līlā. That is their rascal philo... God is making pastimes, līlā, by becoming a dog. That is their rascal philosophy. Daridra-nārāyaṇa. Vivekananda's philosophy. Nārāyaṇa has become daridra, poor. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (pause) So with chemists we have no quarrel if they begin from light. They're beginning from darkness. That is our contention. We say, "Begin from light." And they say, "No, begin from darkness." Because they're in darkness. One who is in the darkness, from darkness, if he goes to light, he thinks that the darkness is the beginning.

Paramahaṁsa: In comparison, they always compare.

Prabhupāda: No, no comparison. It is practical. Suppose you have been in the darkness for millions of years and when you come to the light you think that "Oh, from darkness the light has come." Light, when it becomes dimmed, that is darkness. Not that (from) darkness, light has come.

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Śyāmasundara: Then understand the universe.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is perfect knowledge.

Śyāmasundara: Before understanding, trying to understand God by His universe.

David Wynne: And science almost denies the existence of God in order to exist, doesn't it?

Prabhupāda: That is a rascal. These rascals say like that. Anyone who denies the existence of God, he is rascal number one. Immediately. And anyone, he may be a great scientist or philosopher, let him come. If he says that "I don't believe in God," then I shall prove that "You are rascal number one." That I shall prove.

Śyāmasundara: We'll bring you some scientists.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So many scientists, psychologists, philosophers came to me.

David Wynne: But the greatest scientists have..., are the humblest.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is real knowledge, when one becomes humbler: "Oh, God is so great." That is real scientist. I think Professor Einstein, he admitted.

Conversation with Mr. Wadell -- July 10, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Therefore when we are in doubts, therefore we have to refer to the authority. Just like when you are diseased, so you go to the physician, "What is the cause of my this trouble?" Similarly, when you are in doubts, you have to approach an authority to clear the doubts. Otherwise you will remain in doubts, ignorance.

Mr. Wadell: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: Therefore our Vedic injunction is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Tad-vijñānārtham, in order to clear the doubt, to be in perfect knowledge, one must approach the authorized bona fide spiritual master.

Mr. Wadell: Can we go back to the physician. It is possible for a physician to be wrong.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we are always in wrong because we are born ignorant. Everything is wrong because ignorant, foolish. Madman's conception. This is all wrong, childish. Therefore we send our boys, children, to school, to correct the wrong ideas.

Mr. Wadell: But some of the teachers may not be correct.

Prabhupāda: No. The process is you have to go to the teacher. But if the teacher is a cheater, then the whole thing is spoiled. A teacher must be teacher, perfect teacher. But if he happens to be a cheater then the whole thing is spoiled.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That DDD. All "D". (Hindi conversation for few sentences.)

Guest (3): That was a determination to learn. One has got the... He has written his own (indistinct) confusion ...

Guest (1): (indistinct) what was Droṇācārya. He has taken his thumb for nothing actually.

Guest (3): No, that was his test.

Guest (1): In order to please Arjuna.

Guest (3): In order to please Arjuna. And that was his test. And that was his determination, that he rejected, and he learned the science, just, uh, faith.

Prabhupāda: In material world such competition is there.

Guest (3): Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is not spiritual world. That is material. So Droṇācārya gave Arjuna the benediction that "You shall be the greatest archer." So in order to keep his promise, he made that...

Guest (1): That wasn't, I think, what he did. (Paramahaṁsa or someone else enters.)

Paramahaṁsa: Śyāmasundara, Śyāmasundara is not in the temple.

Prabhupāda: Oh. What is that?

Devotee: Oh, this is just a little preparation, burfi and a little kheer.

Guest (3): Can't you bring him the plate like that?

Prabhupāda: No, that's all right.

Room Conversation With Three College Students -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: First of all... First of all thing is the, what is the aim of practicing yoga? So to achieve that end, that purpose, you have to control the mind because mind is very flickering, going here, there, there, there. So first of all you must know what is the purpose of practicing yoga, why you should practice yoga. So in order to achieve that goal, you have to concentrate your mind, and therefore you have to control the mind going here and there. That is control. Mind business is acceptance and rejecting. This is mind's business. Immediately I accept, "It is very good;" again, next moment, "No, no it is not good. Reject it." This is called flickering mind. So by yoga practice you have to make your mind in such a way that whatever you decide, that is correct, not the state of rejecting and accepting. So first of all, you have to know why you are practicing yoga. As you asked the question, "Why control of mind?" Then the next question will be "Why you are practicing? What is your aim?" You are going to practice yoga. Why? What is the aim?

Student (1): Is it to realize God?

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Therefore you must have to concentrate upon God; therefore you have to control your mind. You have to withdraw your mind from any other engagement, only concentrate on God. Then the... What is God?

Room Conversation with Malcolm -- July 18, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: The millions and trillions number...

Śyāmasundara: By unanimous opinion, by unanimous pursuit of some goal, that becomes the common goal.

Paramahaṁsa: Fashion. Fashion?

Prabhupāda: No, therefore I say...

Malcolm: No, no. Number... I know, I... That when a number of people become beyond a certain size, that in order for that size to maintain, there becomes a code of written law whose existence is to preserve the number, and it becomes the goal of the people, and it is the goal of number and not of the people. And the people I see...

Prabhupāda: The people are numberless. Therefore the goal should be numberless? People are numberless. We cannot count. It is not possible. Therefore the goal should be also numberless?

Room Conversation with Malcolm -- July 18, 1973, London:

Malcolm: If he would then, when he is a grown person, recapture or re-feel the link to his reason for being, he must go back in his experience or thought to the point at which he cried to feel again the feeling of being lost. Now, the Western youth seem to have been forced to accept their position, and the position that they have accepted gives them no freedom to go back and find the point at which they felt the experience of the thing they had lost. So in their minds they would say, "There is something missing. There is no God. But there is a God. Yet I must find him with my mind." And then they know through the search that it is only going back through their own years of experience to the point at which they had lost that they will find it. But for the Westerner it clashes with his total Western heritage, the thing imposed him upon by his senses which is that he may not isolate himself from his community in order to go back. And the young people cannot move because this point holds them.

Prabhupāda: No. The young people, they are moving. They are coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no check. Because they are western boys, there is no check. Just like they're all Europeans, Americans. So how they are coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness? It doesn't matter whether Western, Eastern. Natural propensity is the same, either in the East or in the West. So it doesn't matter. That is not impediment. Anywhere, the science is... Just like your physical science. It is as good as in the West as in the East. For the East, there cannot be a different physical science. The same science can be taught in the East and the West.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Reporter: Hm.

Prabhupāda: Nānyat tat-toṣa-kāraṇam. So in order to satisfy Him, there is no other way than to act according to the tenets of varṇāśrama. This is the beginning of civilization. Without accepting this division of varṇāśrama, that is animal society, everything is chaos. (some people talking aside)

Reporter: You want to ask anything?

Woman: No.

Guest: (aside:) (indistinct) ...Kṛṣṇa first, and then you know what to do.

Reporter: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So we are teaching this sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), just to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Then everything is all right. And then Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. He's taking charge. Then what is the anxiety? Just surrender, that's all.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: If they chant, then they'll understand everything. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Everything is misgiving within the heart. So if the ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, if the mirror of the heart is cleansed, then when the mirror is cleansed you can see your face correctly. Similarly when all misgivings, all dirty things is cleared from the heart, you can see things as they are, correctly.

Reporter: In order to clear your heart you have to chant.

Prabhupāda: That is it.

Reporter: Right.

Woman: What about meditating?

Prabhupāda: This is the best medicine, meditation.

Woman: What about the other kind?

Prabhupāda: When meditation, meditation, dhyāna, it is very difficult nowadays. You chant to meditate, you think of your own business. That's another thing. So this is forced meditation: "Hare Kṛṣṇa!" Even if you do not want to hear, you will hear. (laughter) And there is chanting and dancing, everyone who doesn't wanted to hear they also hear.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: That is necessities of life. Because you have got this body, so you must supply the necessities of the body. That we supply. Not only that. We want to keep men in so peaceful condition that he's not disturbed by mental anxieties, bodily disease, natural disturbances and fighting or quarreling with other living entities. So when he's perfectly in peaceful condition of life, he can save time for advancement in spiritual consciousness.

Reporter: Sure, so...

Prabhupāda: But aim is that his life, everyone's life is meant for spiritual realization. So to, in order to achieve this end of life he must be kept in peaceful condition of life.

Yogeśvara: He asks: "In order to achieve these goals is it our intention to do like the Christians and make everyone convert to Kṛṣṇa consciousness?"

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yogeśvara: In order to achieve our goals, do we intend doing like the Christians tried to do, making everyone convert to their side. Is that what we want to do, make everyone convert to Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not? If Kṛṣṇa consciousness is good, why everyone should not take to it?

Yogeśvara: Ah. This is an important question. He says seeing the world as it is today, what is the most preferable social organization from the Kṛṣṇa conscious point of view?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not? If Kṛṣṇa consciousness is good, why everyone should not take to it?

Yogeśvara: Ah. This is an important question. He says seeing the world as it is today, what is the most preferable social organization from the Kṛṣṇa conscious point of view?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yogeśvara: How should society be organized in order to achieve these goals?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You organize that there should be division of different classes of men. The first class men, the second class men, the third class men, fourth class men. The first-class men means the most intelligent class of men. Second-class men means those who are dealing in politics. Third-class men means those who are dealing in economics, industry, trade. And fourth-class men means they have no intelligence to take up all these things, but they work only. But all of them should cooperate. For the general benefit of the whole human society. We have got engagement for the first-class men, second-class men, third-class men, fourth-class men. Just like we have got in our body the brain, the arms, the belly, and the legs. But all of them are cooperating for keeping the body fit. Similarly, the first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class men should cooperate for achieving the end, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So it is the most refined socialism. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement... Our socialism means centering around Kṛṣṇa. Just like Russian socialism is around the ideas of Marx or Lenin. So we have got also similar leader. As the communist has got the leader, Marx or Lenin, similarly we have also got the leader, Kṛṣṇa.

Bhagavān: There is, there is kind of socialist or communist philosophy that says that everyone must be able to do the same work in order to be equal.

Prabhupāda: That is not possible. That is rascaldom. We have divided already four classes of men. Even in Russia... Even in Russia, I have seen, they have created two classes, the worker class, the manager class. I have seen it. Yes. So you cannot say that everyone will do the same work. That is not possible. I have given already the example, the brain, the arms, the abdomen and the leg. The leg cannot do the work of brain. Leg can cooperate with the brain, but cannot do the work of brain. This is natural position.

Yogeśvara: He asks: In our society do these four divisions also exist?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Yogeśvara: In ISKCON, are there these four divisions?

Prabhupāda: No, we are transcendental to all these material divisions. This is material division.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Guru-gaurāṅga: "Translation: The Supreme occupation, dharma, for all humanity is that by which men can attain to loving devotional service unto the transcendent Lord. Such devotional service must be unmotivated and uninterrupted in order to completely satisfy the self."

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is self-satisfaction. Yayātmā suprasīdati. Ahaituky apratihatā. So the bhakti cult is open for everyone. Ahaituky apratihatā.

Professor: Yeah, but people following you, could, could they stay in normal life, I mean have a business, etc...?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why Not? There are so many...

Professor: You, for instance, do you do that?

Prabhupāda: He's a householder. Yes.

Professor: You are still working?

Yogeśvara: I design books and magazines.

Professor: Where? I mean, in connection with this society?

Yogeśvara: I do work for the society.

Professor: But is it possible to work outside?

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. We have many professors. They're being outside. But one thing is that after being interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they cannot remain outside.

Room Conversation with Officer Harry Edwards, the Village Policeman -- August 30, 1973, Bhaktivedanta Manor, London:

Prabhupāda: No, no, no.

Revatīnandana: No, what he's saying is that if we wanted to keep a firearm, it would have to go down in the book that it is for killing animals; that is legitimate business here.

Śyāmasundara: In order to get our license.

Revatīnandana: Otherwise, we wouldn't be able to get a license for using it for defending the property.

Śyāmasundara: Except that...

Revatīnandana: We could put an alarm system in if we put jewels in the Deity room.

Harry: Oh yes, yes, put an alarm in, yes.

Śyāmasundara: This is England, after all, a civilized country.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Revatīnandana: Even in London, we haven't had need of..., haven't had much trouble.

Harry: Well, no, but you see...

Prabhupāda: In America also, I have seen...

Harry: ...there are some people who...

Prabhupāda: ...in counties , they keep open door. I was in Butler.

Room Conversation with British Man -- August 31, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Christ?

Haṁsadūta: What does it mean that Christ died for us, in order that we may live. Or in other words, died for our sins. He wants to know, because he's going to live anyway, he's eternal anyway, what is the meaning of that statement? What is the meaning?

Prabhupāda: So far I understand, the Christians give explanation that Christ took the resultant action of sinful life of everyone and he condoned by his giving his own life. Is that not?

Haṁsadūta: Yes. It is.

Prabhupāda: So...

Haṁsadūta: But I think the idea is that on one condition, that the people, anyone who is Christian, they agree to follow his commandment, his order, which is so many things—thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not commit adultery-on that condition, he gave his life in the service of God on this condition, to teach this message. Anyone who would accept him, they would become free from sin...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Haṁsadūta: ...if they accept his teaching, that is the meaning of the statement.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Guest (1): So in order to understand what is God one has to leave his family and come to some...

Prabhupāda: Why do you surmise like that? You do not know what is God. Why do you surmise your proposal?

Guest (1): No, I mean, ah...

Prabhupāda: Now why you are asking this question? You know, I've explained, that one has to become brāhmaṇa. There are still there are many brāhmaṇas, those who are with children. Even Caitanya Mahāprabhu, although He had no children, He was family man. Nityānanda Prabhu was family man, and Advaita Prabhu was family man. They're all brāhmaṇas, family men, but they knew what is God. The real thing is to know God. Not to, because everything is allowed. These eight, four varṇas and four āśramas. There is no such thing that one has to become, to come to this form of life or that form of life. So varṇāśramācaravatā. You must execute the varṇāśrama-dharma. Then you'll understand. It doesn't matter whether you are a brāhmaṇa or kṣatriya or vaiśya or śūdra, that is a cooperation. Just like in your body there must be the head, there must be the arms, there must be the belly, and there must be the legs. By comparative study head is more important than the leg. But leg is also required. You cannot do without leg. Similarly, brāhmaṇa is the head, kṣatriya is the arms, vaiśya is the belly and śūdra is the leg. So as much I require my head so much I require the leg also. But the leg must do the leg's duty and the head must do the head's duty. Then it is perfect. And if the head is cracked, then everything is gone, madman. So at the present moment there is no brāhmaṇa, qualified. Therefore the society is in chaos. In chaotic condition, all are searching after something substantial. That is the position of the Western countries. They have heard so many things about India's culture. Still, they respect India's culture, spiritual culture. They are hankering after. But unfortunately the so-called yogis, swamis, come and cheat them. That is the difficulty. This is the first time that systematically we are presenting what is actual Vedic dharma or Bhāgavata-dharma. This question was raised by Rāmānanda Rāya before Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Varṇāśrama, he quoted this verse from Viṣṇu Purāṇa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, eho bāhya, āge kaha āra. "Yes, it is all right, varṇāśrama-dharma, but it is now external.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: He's also a very nice man.

Guest (1): Maybe some pious activities that they have.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): But this is their duty to respect.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...in this planet. In order to be elevated to the kingdom of God, they cannot go directly from the heavenly planet. They'll have to come here.

Guest (1): There are many stories in Mahābhārata. Many, many kings, they went to heavenly planets and from there. Many stories.

Prabhupāda: Kṣīṇe puṇye martya-lokaṁ viśanti (BG 9.21). You have got prasāda? Not yet. Come on. Any more? Any more? Another? Come on. (end)

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Guru dāsa: But the question was if one is knowingly going to be kicked out.

Prabhupāda: No, knowingly, no sane man will go. But because he is ignorant, he is making plan to be happy, and one day it comes, "Kick out! Go out!" That is ignorance. Therefore śūdra. Therefore our perfection of life should be, that is recommended in the śāstra, brahma-saukhyam anantam. You should aspire of happiness which is unlimited. You will never be kicked out from that happiness. That is the idea. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattvaṁ yasmād brahma-saukhyam anantam (SB 5.5.1). This is the instruction. You must try for a place where you get eternal life, eternal bliss, eternal knowledge. That is perfection.

Banker: In order to seek that, you have established a routine in your life so that you do not waste time thinking about the mundane.

Prabhupāda: There is education, proper... This is education, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Banker: Well, you could say the same for the lower group people who work one third of their life in business, spend one third in sleep, and spend one third in whatever else they want to do. That is also a routine.

Prabhupāda: What is that? I do not follow.

Room Conversation with Latin Professor -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Professor: I have no answer.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore, our speculative knowledge, intellectual platform, is not helpful. We must receive knowledge from superior source, perfect source. That knowledge is perfect. Just like we give, generally this example, that to find out who is my father, my search out, research, will not help me, but if my mother says, "Here is your father," that is perfect knowledge because she's authority. Therefore, for perfect knowledge, we have to take it from the perfect authority, not by our speculative intellectual gymnasium. No, that will not help. Because our intellectual jurisdiction is very limited. That is Vedic process. Vedic process is not to acquire knowledge by ascending process, inductive process. Vedic knowledge is to receive knowledge by descending process, knowledge coming from authority. That, that you will find in the Bhagavad-gītā, Fourth Chapter: evaṁ paramparā prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Knowledge has to be received... Just like a child receives knowledge... He is inquisitive: "Mother, what is this? Father, what is this?" And mother informs him, "My dear child, this is is. This is this." So he is acquiring knowledge by descending process. And if the child wants to get knowledge independently, that is not knowledge. He'll touch the fire. Mother: "Don't touch, don't touch, my dear child!" But he does not know. He's thinking the fire as something eatable. So by the Vedic process, this experimental knowledge is no useful. Yes. The Vedic injunction is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet: (MU 1.2.12) "In order to receive perfect knowledge, you must have approach the guru." Guru means who has the perfect knowledge. So you cannot independently get perfect knowledge, intellectual. That will remain always imperfect.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 11, 1974, Los Angeles:

Satsvarūpa: ...by reading the books, he'd understood that we should become completely desireless. So he wanted more explanation. And in the car coming out Śrīla Prabhupāda just explained that our desire can't go away because that's the symptom of the living entity. We have to have some desire. But real desirelessness means that you have no more material desire. Material desire: someone is always desiring from God, "Give me this, give me this." But when we become purified, then our desire is that "Kṛṣṇa, please take me. Please take me. Whatever service I can render, please accept it." But when one has not enough information, then he desires... His idea of desirelessness is to become like a dead stone. Simply to... Because desire causes suffering and it's bad, material desire, therefore let me simply stop it and become... That will be desireless. But that is not, that state is not possible because our symptom of life is to have desire. So we answer him in this way, to become purified and simply serve Kṛṣṇa all the time. Not that we stop any activities. Prabhupāda was saying he is working day and night. So you cannot become absorbed in nothing. In order to become purely desireless, you have to have some activity that will always... There is a place, there is a plane of spiritual desire, spiritual activity. So there's... (pause)

Prabhupāda: What do you have to say about this? Do you understand, desireless and desireful?

Satsvarūpa: People some... Pseudo transcendentalists, they sometimes criticize us like that. They say, "Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees, you're just too active." They're think that we're fruitive, always running around, always trying to sell books, always very active. That's because they don't understand that desirelessness. They talk like that, and then they'll smoke a cigarette the next moment as they criticize us. They say, "You should not have to do anything if you're transcendental. Why do you have to work so hard?" And then they'll show that they have some very gross desire. (pause) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...therefore they see that this, their conception of Kṛṣṇa, there is mother, there is father, there is friend—"So what is this? Here also we see the mother, father, friend. So how they become free?" They cannot understand. Their brain is so poor they cannot understand. Therefore they: "It is also māyā. To think of Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme, having father, mother, friends, playing pastimes, this is also māyā." Therefore they are called Māyāvādīs. They cannot conceive that in the spiritual world exactly the same things there are, but the position is different. That is absolute, without any designation.

Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (3): But to reach that place there are several ways.

Prabhupāda: Therefore it is said, tattva-darśinaḥ. You have to approach a person who has seen the truth. You don't manufacture your own truth. That will be misleading. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). This is Vedic instruction. In order to understand scientifically, you must approach a guru.

Guest (3): And with a clean slate.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guest (3): With a clean slate of his mind.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyam.

Dr. Patel: It is complete spirit of submission.

Prabhupāda: Submission. Because...

Dr. Patel: And inquiry also.

Prabhupāda: ...I am a fool. If I go with a challenging spirit, what is the meaning of my challenging? I am a fool.

Dr. Patel: That is how we people are educated

Prabhupāda: Yes. But the westerners are not that. (break) ...different thing. They never say anything against me. Whatever I say, they accept. We have got so many western men.

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: What right you have got to interpret?

Indian Man (1): Whatever it is they are saying, but the real thing we should not interpret and we cannot.

Prabhupāda: But you are, after all, material. You are not spiritual. In order to get you on the spiritual platform, things are being spoken by Kṛṣṇa.

Indian Man (4): And to understand something we must have...

Prabhupāda: How you become all of a sudden spiritual? What is that spiritual? You do not understand what is spiritual, and you say, "It is spiritual."

Indian Man (1): Well, something which we cannot see by our own eyes, something which we cannot...

Prabhupāda: Then why do you interpret if you cannot see with your own eyes? You are blind. Why should you interpret? A blind man is interpreting? What is this nonsense? The blind man is just, "Oh, the elephant is big pillar."

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Clergyman?

Nitāi: Yes, that man I was talking to was a clergyman.

Prabhupāda: Where he was?

Nitāi: He was on the airplane when we were coming here to Hyderabad. And he was asking what our program was. And I was telling him that first of all, in order to relieve the confusion of society, we wanted to establish the Vedic culture with this varṇāśrama system. And he asked me what would be the program that we would have for a man who works in the factory...

Prabhupāda: He is a śūdra.

Nitāi: Would we retrain him as a farmer?

Prabhupāda: No, if he is prepared. If not, let him remain. But we can utilize that śūdra also.

Nitāi: He can remain in the factory.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But he cannot do the work of a brāhmaṇa. He cannot be trained as a preacher. But he can help. Just like my legs. The legs cannot do the work of brain, but it can help me. I am walking. So leg is as important as the brain. Similarly, śūdra is as important as the brāhmaṇa, provided he helps the movement, Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is wanted, not that artificially a śūdra should be working as a brāhmaṇa, no. But everyone should be engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is required.

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 2, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Anyone who is living in this material world is a demon. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Where is your mother?

Indian Lady: She is at home.

Bhāgavata: But only certain demons get to fight with Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is special demon.

Bhāgavata: So those special demons, are they are all like Jaya and Vijaya, are they all in that position?

Prabhupāda: No, not necessarily.

Bhāgavata: But to get to fight with Kṛṣṇa, they must have performed many pious activities.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhāgavata: Like Kāliya. So then if they have performed so many pious activities, then obviously they have done something very mischievous in order to take this demon's body? There is some falldown?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Without some mischievous activities... (end)

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Our Vedic process is... There are so many questions, as you have already explained. Somebody thinks, "Why I have come here? And what is the purpose? What you are?" So many questions. Questions should be answered by the perfect. Therefore the Vedic injunction is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet: (MU 1.2.12) "In order to take answers of all these questions one must approach the bona fide spiritual master."

O'Grady: One must...?

Prabhupāda: Approach the bona fide spiritual master.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Approach.

O'Grady: The bona fide spiritual master. If you have none, what do you do?

Prabhupāda: No, there is.

O'Grady: If you are told that Mr. Nixon is the bona fide spiritual master, what do you do?

Prabhupāda: No, we have got standard. Who is bona fide spiritual master? Just like... The one line, you have heard only one line, that bona fide spiritual master, "You must approach the bona fide spiritual master." But who is bona fide spiritual master? Then that next question. That is also answered, that bona fide spiritual master means tad-vijñānārtham sa gurum eva abhigacchet, śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). This is the qualification of bona fide spiritual master. What is that? Śrotriyam. Śrotriyam means who has heard from the bona fide spiritual master. A bona fide spiritual master is he who has taken the message from bona fide spiritual master. This is the... Just like a medical man is he who has taken the knowledge of medical science from another medical man.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Dhanañjaya: I was reading in the newspaper that a few days ago India exploded a nuclear bomb, an atomic bomb, underground. This was the first step. And they have declared that this was used for peaceful reasons, in order to develop...

Prabhupāda: There was a cartoon. When I... One leader is approached for food, that "We are in scarcity of food." The leader says, "Of course, it is very difficult to assure you for food grains. But from next week you will have television." (laughter) Next week you will have television. So these improvements are going on, television, but they are starving. This is going on. Advancement of knowledge and learning is going on in discovering television, but there is no food. This is the mismanagement of the leaders. Dishonest. There is enough food. Punjab still produces food grains. Bengal still produces rice, but they are stocked by government men, and they are mishandling. They are lying on the station for dispatch, but they will not be dispatched. They are rotting. Rainy season spoiled the whole stock; still, they are not dispatched. Official: "There is no dispatch order. There is no wagons available." Simply mismanagement or bribe. This is going on. And people are suffering. How it is possible to purchase? Suppose India's income, the average income, is very poor. Suppose one man earns ten rupees a day, and if he has to purchase ten rupees simply rice for the family, ten..., what for others? Then he becomes dishonest. He wants to earn money by taking bribe in his own capacity. So bribing has become a custom. Anywhere you go, unless you bribe, you cannot get release. And they say that "Whatever salary we are getting, that is not sufficient. Our extra earning is by taking bribe." And now in the Western countries also the difficulty is arising. I do not know whether you are already, I mean to say, aware that so many boys, they are becoming hippies.

Room Conversation with Biochemist, Dr. Sallaz -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: He says... Very interesting. He says one of the conclusions that they have arrived at is that despite all of your research work, despite all of your scientific studies, if you don't have a simple spirit of inquiry, you won't be able to understand the codes of life. He says the genetic codes, actually, it is a great secret, a mystery, which they are trying to prepare for general understanding, and that secret is that you must be of a simple, humble spirit in order to understand the mysteries of life.

Dr. Sallaz: You must try to look for truth, and when you look for truth, you see very extraordinary and simple solution explaining everything for the scientific men. But the time is not right to give it to them. A little later, yes.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: You spoke of a destruction. You said that without a spiritual revolution, there would be some type of destruction. What exactly do you think of as destruction?

Dr. Sallaz: Oh, the world will be dead.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: No. In the Bhagavad-gītā we have information that the living force, or the soul, is neither born and neither it dies.

Dr. Sallaz: Ah, yes. I meant this world. Matter is the earth. Be careful. I don't mean life in general...

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Now, this is the point that my spiritual master is bringing out, that the material energy is inferior, and in order to have a spiritual revolution you have to understand the superior energy which is eternal, without birth and without death. So, of course, there is no question of destruction for the soul.

Dr. Sallaz: Destruction in our occidental language and practically, which is not yours.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Destruction in simple terms, just as we know something has a beginning and something has an end. That is destruction. So in Vedic terms that which has a beginning and has an end is called material, and that which has no beginning and no end, but is existing nonetheless, that is called spiritual or superior energy.

Dr. Sallaz: Of course. This cannot be destroyed.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That cannot be destroyed.

Dr. Sallaz: That cannot be destroyed. It can disappear from the living people, Christian or other of this world, but not at all.

Prabhupāda: Then what do you mean by spiritual revolution?

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa:

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo
yato bhaktir adhokṣaje
ahaituky apratihatā
yayātmā suprasīdati
(SB 1.2.6)

"The supreme occupation, dharma, for all humanity is that by which men can attain to loving devotional service unto the transcendent Lord. Such devotional service must be unmotivated and uninterrupted in order to completely satisfy the self."

Prabhupāda: So our, this movement is to create lover of God. It does not matter whether he follows Christianity or Hinduism or Buddhism or this ism or that ism. One must be lover of God, and that is stated in the Bhāgavata. That is first-class religion which turns the followers to become lover of God, that's all.

M. Roche-dieu: In Christianity, mystics would emphasize the same thing.

Prabhupāda: That is the essence of religion, to know God and to love Him. That's all.

M. Roche-dieu: Yes. Love God and love the man too.

Prabhupāda: Why man? Simply love God; then you will love everyone. Because God is the center, God is the father of everyone, so if you love the father, automatically you love the sons. It is not required that you simply love this son and not that son. That is not love of Godhead. "I love human being but I do not love the poor animals. Send them to the slaughterhouse." This is not love of God. So in the Bhagavad-gītā, you will find, God says,

sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya
mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ
tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir
ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā
(BG 14.4)

So God is the Supreme Father. It is not that He is father of the human being. He is father of the animals, He is father of the trees, He is father of the animals...

M. Roche-dieu: Living being.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Guru-gaurāṅga: "And to try and work and find out the true path."

Robert Gouiran: I try to work this intuition, to make it stronger, in order to feel where I have to go and to participate...

Prabhupāda: So where is the difficulty...? What is the difficulty in the position you are now, at present?

Robert Gouiran: Good question. The difficulty is that I lost the thought of this transparency by a lot of criss-crossed swords which make a sort of block, and I have very, very strong difficulties now here to feel intuitively the occult plane. And I am back in the reality...

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Guru-gaurāṅga: Coming back now into the West, he feels so much difficulty to still be sensitive, to have this intuition of the spiritual plane.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: He says that there are like criss-crosses, like swords blocking...

Prabhupāda: So one thing is that he's feeling difficulty in the material atmosphere of the West. Is it the fact?

Robert Gouiran: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is good.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Renounce means, renounce means, renounce means to give up. This is the ordinary meaning.

Robert Gouiran: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Is it not?

Robert Gouiran: In order to get freedom.

Prabhupāda: So...

Robert Gouiran: Absolute, absolute freedom.

Prabhupāda: So by renouncing you get freedom?

Robert Gouiran: Absolute freedom.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Absolute freedom, that's all right. Take your meaning. But do you think by renouncing... Suppose you are sitting here. You renounce this place. You get freedom?

Robert Gouiran: Uh...

Prabhupāda: Does it mean that you get freedom?

Robert Gouiran: No.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: "To get." The word is "to get."

Robert Gouiran: Well, I'm not English-speaking.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that is the meaning. You renounce to get something else. Otherwise, what is the meaning of this renunciation.

Robert Gouiran: Just in order to get rid of the barriers which blocks the access of the spiritual plane.

Yogeśvara: (French)

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is devotion. To work on the spiritual plane means devotion, devotional service. That is spiritual. Otherwise what is the meaning of renunciation? Suppose you are working as scientist. You renounce. What do you gain? Unless you gain something better, then there is meaning of renouncing.

Robert Gouiran: I was taught... Well, if you are speaking about...

Prabhupāda: Otherwise, it has no meaning.

Robert Gouiran: ...etymology.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Robert Gouiran: Devoted means...

Yogeśvara: We were speaking about the verse in Bhāgavatam that says the perfection of all work is to attain that knowledge of the Supreme.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: And to please Him.

Yogeśvara: So that is also the perfection for the sannyāsī; the perfection of his work also is devotion to the Supreme.

Prabhupāda: If you renounce something for zero, then what is the value of renunciation: There must be something better. Then you renounce. Otherwise what is the value of renunciation? To become zero?

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: That is means conditional religion. That is not absolute religion. In order to, what is called, summarize all types of religion... Just like Kṛṣṇa says, mama vartmānuvartante manuṣyāḥ pārtha sarvaśaḥ, "Everyone is trying to come to Me." So they are coming by different paths. So that is accepted. Now, when he says that "I am here. You're coming to Me, now you just surrender. Then everything is all right." Why don't you accept that? Why do you insist, "No, I shall come in a different way, different path"? What is this nonsense? God is saying "All right, you have got different paths, but give up that. Now simply surrender to Me." Where I am objection? If I am a really lover of God, God is saying like that, why not accept that? Why shall I pay for different paths? Eh? Suppose in this jungle you are scattered and you are searching "Where is Prabhupāda? Where is Prabhupāda?" And somebody says, "Come this way. Come this way." And if I say, "Not this way, that way. Come here. Come here." What is your objection? Eh? Either you don't want me... (laughs) Eh? You don't want me. You want to play some whimsical way. You are not serious about me? If you're actually serious about God, God says here, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām e... (BG 18.66). "Give up all this nonsense. Just surrender un..." Why they do not accept it. Eh? What is your answer, Satsvarūpa?

Satsvarūpa: I think your answer's that they want to play a kind of hide and seek. They don't really want to go.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is their foolishness. They don't want to go.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Jyotirmayī: (French)

Prabhupāda: The Vedas say, therefore, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In order to understand that science, you have to approach the guru. Vyāsadeva is the original guru. He is instructor of Vedic knowledge. Then from Vyāsadeva, ācāryas. So this is the instruction of the Vedas. Tad-vijñānārtham: in order to experience that transcendental thing, you have to approach to the authorities, gurum eva abhigacchet. And who is guru? Śrotriyam, one who has heard from his guru, authorized person, śrotriyam, brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12), and firmly convinced in the science of God.

Jyotirmayī: (French)

(Prabhupāda tells someone to open window)

Bhagavān: How does one get the experience of personal existence of God?

Prabhupāda: That is already explained. Why did you hear? We are explaining this same subject, you did not hear?

Bhagavān: Oh, yes, I was just asking.

Prabhupāda: You are asking me or asking him?

Bhagavān: No, for his benefit. You were talking experience.

Priest: Yes.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So at least in the human society, everyone must have understanding of God, that is expected. It is not expected in the society of cats and dogs because they are animals. The human being, dharmasya glāniḥ, there is dharma, some sort of religious system. And religious system means to understand God. That's all. Just like to become a lawyer means to understand the laws of the state. Similarly, religious system means the process by which one can understand God. And that is the summary of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). That is first-class religious system which trains the followers to understand God and love Him. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir, ahaituky apratihatā (SB 1.2.6). If somebody says, "Oh, it is a very great thing to understand God and to love Him," they are thinking it is not possible. No. The answer is ahaituky apratihatā. It can be learned by anyone. It is not checked by any material condition. If one wants to know what is God and to love Him, the path is open for everyone. It does not require high intelligence, high education, high culture. No. Anyone. The process is śravaṇam, the beginning. One has to hear. One may be fool number one, it doesn't matter. No education, it doesn't matter. Poor, doesn't matter. Black, doesn't matter. White, doesn't matter. You try to hear. Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ (SB 3.25.25). Therefore, Vedic injunction is in order to know, go to the bona fide guru and hear. Ādau gurv-āśrayam, sad-dharma pṛcchāt. So even one has no experience, if he goes to the experienced man, experienced person, then you can understand and you can love God, and that is perfection of life.

Room Conversation with M. Lallier, noted French Poet -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: He says in order to understand the purifying effects of this prasādam, don't we already have to pure to understand it.

Pṛthu Putra: Or the books.

Prabhupāda: No, if you eat the prasādam, you'll be purified.

Yogeśvara: Our spiritual master was explaining in Geneva to a reporter that there are different levels of understanding. It's not that we always have to have a philosophical understanding of things in order to appreciate them. Sometimes we can just appreciate that this prasādam tastes so very good. That's also correct.

M. Lallier: Yes, but in occidental countries, we have a tendency to try to understand things by a mental way.

Karandhara: Well, that can also be done. You can hear, listen to the philosophy, and then..., but in order to really examine it thoroughly, you have to experiment with a hypothesis. We say if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and eat prasādam, you become pure. So that may be a hypothesis so long as you don't try it, but as you try it, you come to realize that it's an actual fact. Just like if the doctor advises you to take a certain medicine for a cure of an illness, you may not have the understanding to know how that cure is going to work, but if the doctor is actually qualified, and you follow his orders, then you'll become cured, even if you didn't understand it in the beginning.

Bhagavān: The problem is if you don't try.

Karandhara: Or make sure you have a qualified remedy, a qualified medicine. Or doctor. One way you can see doctors... One way doctors are checked out is if they have successful, if they have had success in the past. You go to a friend and ask him, "Can you recommend a doctor who's cured you?" And he'll recommend, "Yes, you go to here. He's cured me." So if you're trying to find a spiritual master, one evidence of his potency is his disciples, how pure are his disciples. If you see that his disciples are becoming pure, then you can understand that here is a spiritual master who is giving something real. But sometimes the knowledge will come after the appreciation. Sometimes the appreciation will come after the knowledge. It can work either way.

Bhagavān: So I think we can go. It's time for Prabhupāda's massage. (devotees offer obeisances and leave.)

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)

Morning Walk -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Paramahaṁsa: Although a devotee feels helpless in the hands of Kṛṣṇa, still, in order to execute his duty, he must be very strong.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Paramahaṁsa: How does he reconcile those two?

Prabhupāda: He must work for Kṛṣṇa. He is not doing anything for himself. He's doing for Kṛṣṇa. For Kṛṣṇa's sake, one can take any kind of risk. Just like the karmīs, they take any kind of risk for earning some money similarly, bhakta also will take any kind of risk to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Guru-kṛṣṇa. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. So it is not very clean. Why?

Paramahaṁsa: Many, many people come here every day and not too many people clean. It's difficult to have people clean. They think it's too low, as an occupation.

Devotee: They spend their money making bombs instead of sanitation. (Prabhupāda laughs) (pause)

Prabhupāda: Why?

Paramahaṁsa: Instead of taking bath every day, they use perfume on their body. Fifty years ago, very few people had a shower in the home, and they would go to a public bath once a week or twice a week for a bath. Most of the time they cleaned themselves off with alcohol.

Prabhupāda: They still, in Germany, they have no bath in every house. They go to the public bath. Is it not? They, simply they have got only one toilet. That's all. And for taking bath, they go the public house. They have to pay some... (break) Hmm?

Morning Walk -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Dakṣa. Dakṣa. Yes. Mahārāja Dakṣa.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: In order to chant the holy name purely, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is it necessary to feel separation?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: In order to chant the holy name purely, is it necessary to have feelings of separation?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Provided he has got the taste for chanting. Otherwise he'll sleep. That's all. (pause) These are all buildings for museum?

Paramahaṁsa: Yes, and some small parts are used for administrative offices, the government and police. This used to be a king's palace.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Paramahaṁsa: This used to be the king's palace, of France.

Morning Walk -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Paramahaṁsa: Yes, this was the palace before they built the big palace in Versailles. Versailles is like a demigod's planet. It's the most wonderful building in all of France. Everything in gold, and wonderful paintings. Very, very big, and wonderful gardens and rivers. The king of France was very intelligent. In order to keep the nobles from revolting against him, he invited them all to his palace to enjoy with him. And he gave them wonderful feasts and a lot of sex life, and wonderful music. And like this, they never revolted during his time. This was Louis the Fourteenth.

French Devotee: He was called the sun king.

Paramahaṁsa: They call him the saintly king.

French Devotee: Sun, sun.

Paramahaṁsa: Oh, the sun king.

Prabhupāda: What is that sun king?

Paramahaṁsa: Why do they call him "Sun King"?

French Devotee: Because he was very opulent.

Paramahaṁsa: Today, the French people collect millions of dollars every year from the Americans to keep Versailles beautiful.

Prabhupāda: American tourists pay.

Paramahaṁsa: Yes, many hundreds and thousands of American tourists come there every year just to see this opulence.

Yogeśvara: The Americans appreciate opulence. That's why we joined your movement.

Prabhupāda: (Chuckles) Yes. Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtino 'rjuna. So because in your previous life, you had been pious, you have got your life in America, and now utilize it. Certainly, I, several times I have told that your previous life, you were pious. There is no doubt about it. And now utilize that opportunity. You have got opulence. You have got money. You have got intelligence. Utilize it for Kṛṣṇa. Then it is successful. And Kṛṣṇa has also come. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement has come to your country. So utilize it properly.

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: He did? And still he is innocent?

Devotee: Yes. He paid so many millions, thousands and thousands of dollars. His party, the republican party, they put microphones and everything in the convention of the democrats and had spies and everything in order that he could find out their tricks. He had paid all these men and there were all fired.

Prabhupāda: So that is not bad because in politics you have to do that. Everyone does so. What is Nixon's fault?

Devotee: But only he got caught. And all of his men quit.

Prabhupāda: No, no, suppose you are my rival. So I wanted to know your secrecies. So I make some mechanical arrangement. That is not fault. That is not... Everyone does so. Why do you expect that he will not do that? He must do that. If you are my rival or enemy, to know your secrecy, I must endeavor to do everything. As you are doing, so I am.

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Devotee: But isn't that not good because the politicians nowadays, when they are running their campaign, they say so many lies and everything to the public, that "When I am elected I will do this and I will do that," and they do so many... They pay off so many people in order that they can become elected. So always the good persons are... I guess they also have to cheat in order to get in position, but usually the...

Prabhupāda: Therefore we have stopped our political activities. It is not good. It will be hampering to our spiritual understanding.

Devotee: Because we will also have to do that.

Prabhupāda: If you want to dance, you cannot be shy. There is a Bengali proverb, nate vase guṇṭhana tana (?). You understand Bengali? No. That, "When you are going to dance... A girl, or a lady is supposed to dance in the platform, in the stage, and when she came, she saw thousands of people. Then she drew her veil, what is called, guṇṭhana, became little ashamed. So you are going to dance. What is the use of veiling yourself?" So similarly, when one takes part in politics, if you don't take all the tactics of politics, then you cannot gain ground.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Na hanyate, does not die, hanyamāne śarīre, apparently, the body being dead, the soul is never dead. (French)

Yogeśvara: So... Shall I explain that one? What the good Pastor—are they called Pastor?—describes is that in order for there to be a dialogue, we have to respect each others' positions, not that we will try to convert the other. He says just as we respect you have an absolute faith in the Vedic philosophy, so also there must be respect that the Christian interpretation of the life of Lord Jesus and his death...

Prabhupāda: Oh, I think I have better respect than him to Jesus Christ. I say he does not die. He says he dies. (French) So far respect is concerned, I have more respect than them. They want to see Jesus Christ dead. I don't want to see him dead.

French Woman: No. Death and resurrection after, Jesus.

Yogeśvara: There's a resurrection.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: May I put a question, master? On the way there should be progress, inner progress. How to realize that there is a progress? I would say one thing is very important. There are three sufferings in the world of mankind: fear of annihilation, despair if you are taken by something which is absurd, and loneliness, if you are alone. These three sufferings in the world for the natural being. I realize that you make a decisive step on your inner way when you feel life in the very moment when you have to die, when you feel the great meaning in the very moment when you are just having despair, and when you feel the great love of the person God exactly while you are a lonely in the world. And I have realized that we are now in a very decisive moment in the western world because for the first time in the history of mankind, the western people, in Europe and the States, start to take seriously certain experiences, inner experiences, where this truth is revealed. In all times, as far as I see, the great condition of the east, they knew about those experiences where death loses its terrifying character and becomes the threshold to some bigger life. And I always see with also my disciples, as soon as they learn to go through some kind of death, they awake on a new level. So I will say if people are in my place and after a week, they still sleep very well, then I have made a mistake. About that sleep, just to realize something in overcoming their usual needs, their usual fears, their usual habits, in order to touch inwardly another level, and then suddenly they realize there is some quite different principle at work as they see usually in their natural mind.

Prabhupāda: So that different principle, for a devotee is already realized. Because a devotee never thinks of this body, that "I am this body." He thinks "I am...," ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am spirit soul." So without that realization, there is no question of devotional life. So that is first understood. That instruction is being given by Kṛṣṇa to Arjuna, that "You are considering very seriously on this body, but a learned man does not take this body very seriously, either dead or alive." That is the first realization. So everyone in this world, they are concerned with this body, dead or alive. When alive, they take care of the body in so many ways, and when dead they erect big statue upon it. So that realization is this body. When it is alive, very nicely dressed, nicely groomed, nicely everything on account of this body, and when dead, then again the statue, the tomb, that's all, but missing the active principle. He is taking care of this body even after death by erecting very nice memorial, but he has no knowledge where the active principle has lost. That is ignorance.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: The consciousness is covered by impurity, just like your health is covered by disease, and the symptom is fever. But that is a covering. That is not your healthy state. Similarly, my consciousness, when I think that "I am American," "I am German," "I am this," "I am that," "I am that," that is impurity. And when he thinks that "I am neither German, neither American, nor this nor that. I am part and parcel of God," that is pure consciousness.

Professor Durckheim: But in order to get there, to feel that one is neither this nor that, one must have suffered by first having thought that one is this or that.

Prabhupāda: That suffering is just like you suffer in the dream. You are attacked by a tiger. There is no tiger. Actually there is no suffering. But on account of ignorance, you are thinking, "The tiger is eating me."

Professor Durckheim: Yes, but this is a very good example because the dream of the tiger comes very often. And it always means that you are pursued by some of your inner instincts, yourself. So you discover in the image of the tiger something which is not right in yourself.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that experience is also material. That is not spiritual experience. That experience is going on continually so long we are materially attached. Because in the material world we are constantly changing our body. Your experience in childhood is different from the experience at this time. So as we are changing our body, we are getting different experiences, and all those experiences are photographed within the mind. And they sometimes come out and make an intermixture, and we see dreams and so many contradictory things. This is going on, mental speculation. That is hovering on the mental plane. That is not spiritual plane.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: There is one difficulty in the western part of the world which might not be so great in the eastern part. I realize in Japan, when they talk about father and mother, especially also mother, it was all something to be loved, to be grateful, to submit. In our countries now, the father is generally the one who does not understand anymore his son, and the son has to get rid of his body father in order to be able to realize himself. So very often the main obstacle in our youth is the image of mother and father because they have never understood their children. So the word father for many people in western part of the world...

Prabhupāda: Misunderstood.

Professor Durckheim: Is something not very agreeable. It's all the authority like this, the not understanding, the not loving, the authority. You see? There are so many fathers who say in their family, "I don't know what you are talking about freedom. In my house everybody can do what I like." So they are very much under this spell today. So I just say this because it's very funny also in this trend of development of religion of today...

Prabhupāda: It is not religion. It is fact. It is not... Religion is sometimes explained as sentiment, but this is fact, that father and son... Without father there is no existence of son, and without son there is no meaning of father. This is science. This is not religion. This is science. As soon as you speak of father means he must have a son, or most. And as soon as a son, he must have a father. So this is a question of "must," not sentiment.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: Yes, I understand.

Prabhupāda: Therefore Vedic instruction is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In order to get first-class experience of the perfection of life, you must approach guru. That is the Vedic injunction. Samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham. Now, who is guru? Whom shall I approach? So the next line explains that approach such guru, śrotriyam, who has heard from his guru perfectly, that guru. Who had no chance of hearing from perfect guru, he is not guru. This is called guru-paramparā, disciplic succession. I hear from a perfect person, and I distribute the knowledge the same way, without any change. So Kṛṣṇa gives us knowledge in the Bhagavad-gītā. We are distributing the same knowledge. It is not by our... (aside:) Water is not required. Water I don't want. There is water. So I am always inexperienced because my power of understanding is very little. Therefore I must get experience from a person who is perfect. Then my experience is perfect. Just like a child does not know what is this. he asks his father, "What is this, father?" Father says, "My dear child, it is microphone." The child knows it, "microphone?" That knowledge is perfect, although his capacity is imperfect. A child is imperfect, but because he gets the knowledge from the perfect father who knows what it is, when he speaks "a microphone," he speaks rightly. This is perfect process of knowledge: You approach the perfect person and get knowledge, and that is your perfect experience. Personally, I may be, you may be, not perfect. But because I get the knowledge from the perfect, my knowledge is perfect. This is our process. We are getting knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, the most perfect. Or you get knowledge from Jesus Christ, that is also perfect, because source is perfect. I am taking knowledge from God and you are taking the knowledge from the son of God who has come directly from him, the same. So, but we have to receive knowledge from the perfect, not by ascending process, experiencing failure, experiencing failure, experiencing failure, not like that. That will take long time.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: No. Therefore they are being frustrated.

Professor Durckheim: There is a change today. The other day, a little while ago, I gave a conference. There were about a thousand doctors, physical medical doctors and psychotherapists assembled, and I told them, "Today be careful. There are two sufferings in the world. The one suffering is suffering because of lack of being efficient in the world. And they are going to look for the medical doctor or the psychotherapist in order to repair them, to repair their machine in order to be efficient. But there is another suffering, the suffering of not being one with the divine self in ourselves. And this is something quite different. Then you doctors have to be quiet and to discover in yourself something like a guru who answers this question which has nothing to do with efficiency in the world." Oh, they were very, you see, became nervous about this question.

Prabhupāda: Now, the efficiency, just like medical treatment. If you know what is the end... Āyurvedic treatment it is called nidāna, nidāna, or diagnosis. First of all, before treating a patient you first of all diagnose what is the disease. Then you can give the proper medicine. But these people do not know how to diagnose. The diagnosis is that they must realize the Supreme. That is the disease. Because they have forgotten the Supreme, they are suffering. The symptoms are different. But they are treating only for the symptoms, not for the root cause. And this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to treat the patient from the root cause. They have forgotten God. Let them remember God.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So this incarnation means I am spirit soul, I have entered this body. Now I can, next life I can enter into another body. It may be dog's body, it may be cat's body or it may be king's body. So the standard of suffering is there either in the king's body or in the dog's body. And the standard of sufferings is enunciated, birth, death, old age and disease. These are our sufferings. So in order to get out of these four kinds of sufferings—there are many kinds; these are the main kinds—we have to get out of this body. That is the problem.

Professor Durckheim: Through many lives...

Prabhupāda: Many life or this life. In this life you understand that "My sufferings are due to this body. Then how to get out of this body?" If you acquire this knowledge, you know the tricks, then you get immediately.

Professor Durckheim: May I say that way, that you say, if you, for instance, or I want to go out of this body, it doesn't mean that I will have to kill my body, but to realize that my spirit is independent from my body.

Prabhupāda: No, no. There is no question of killing. You be killed or not killed, you have to go out of this body and accept another body. That is nature's law. That you cannot avoid. It is not necessarily that first of all you have to be killed. No.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: So long they do not come to the standard platform, they will accept this sometimes and that sometimes. This will go on, changing.

Prof. Pater Porsch: No, but I meant it differently. Can it not be that average man in the street... I don't mean... Yes, it was, of course, in Germany. Man in the street now is infected from the...

Professor Durckheim: Absolutely, yes.

Prof. Pater Porsch: And he thinks that in order to give a rational presentment, (German) (break)

Professor Durckheim: ...I realize that the closer members engaged, really, in this work of distributing books and chanting, wearing the white robes and shaving the heads, they are the closer participants I suppose. And then have you also members of your movement which are simply in their work, in the community, in the world? Or is...

Prabhupāda: No, we invite everyone.

Professor Durckheim: You invite. But as far as members are concerned, to become a member of your movement...

Haṁsadūta: Yes, we have people in all walks of life. For example, we have the (German). He is a life member. And all people...

Professor Durckheim: He's simply a member?

Haṁsadūta: Yes. He is a member, he supports the movement, he follows the principles himself, he appreciates the philosophy, but he has his responsibility in the society. He acts as a member of the society and he is a member. But his lifestyle is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (end)

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1974, Germany:

Haṁsadūta: His point was actually that God had no name, otherwise He would be a person. But I think you missed that point.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, I stressed that if God has no name, then why Christ said that "Hallowed be Thy name"?

Professor Durckheim: Well, he explained from his theologian point of view, when Moses was asking God, "Who is Thy name?" God didn't give a name but said only, "I am who I am." And then He explained if in the prayer one says, "Blessed be thy name," they use this in order to avoid a direct name. So just only say, "The name." But I don't understand the whole thing because the word God already is... What do you want more? And I believe that in the Christian religion, everybody just says God. They think the word God is the name and nothing more needed.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. That is not very good sense, that president, president of America. People say " 'President' is sufficient." Then why "Mr. Nixon"? They are all fools? No, they say, "Mr. Nixon," sometimes they say, and sometimes, "the President." Rather, they say more "Mr. Nixon" than "the President." Why?

Professor Durckheim: Sure. But I only can say...

Prabhupāda: So this argument, this argument is not very sensible argument.

Room Conversation with Bishop Kelly -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Satsvarūpa: In the proper discharge of duty, one has to learn to tolerate nonpermanent appearances and disappearances of happiness and distress. According to Vedic injunction, one has to take his bath early in the morning even during the month of Māgha (January-February). It is very cold at that time, but in spite of that a man who abides by the religious principles does not hesitate to take his bath. Similarly, a woman does not hesitate to cook in the kitchen in the months of May and June, the hottest part of the summer season. One has to execute his duty in spite of climatic inconveniences. Similarly, to fight is the religious principle of the kṣatriyas, and although one has to fight with some friend or relative, one should not deviate from his prescribed duty. One has to follow the prescribed rules and regulations of religious principles in order to rise up to the platform of knowledge because by knowledge and devotion only can one liberate himself from the clutches of māyā (illusion).

The two different names of address given to Arjuna are also significant. To address him as Kaunteya signifies his great blood relations from his mother's side; and to address him as Bhārata signifies his greatness from his father's side. From both sides he is supposed to have a great heritage. A great heritage brings responsibility in the matter of proper discharge of duties; therefore, he cannot avoid fighting.

Prabhupāda: Duty has to be done despite all inconveniences. That is very important thing. The example is given that one has to take bathing early in the morning, but because it is cold, one cannot avoid it. He must bathe. This morning we had some meeting... (break) ...a little boy, but he was a great devotee, and father was a great atheist. So he was surprised that his son became so great devotee. After all, as a father he asked him, "My dear boy, what nice thing you have learned by your education?" He said, "My dear father, the best thing I have learned, that people are always full of anxiety on account of accepting material..." (break) ...exactly the same thing as you were... So one thing is that formerly it was the practice to go to the forest, go to the Himalaya, but in this age this is not possible. Therefore we have to take shelter of the Lord wherever we are, and that is Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Dr. Harrap: I think you could add to that, Roy, that an attempt to grow grain in large areas of Australia would significantly damage the ecology, and from reading your writings, I suspect that this would be completely unacceptable to your way of thinking, that one doesn't disturb the natural life cycles of innumerable creatures in order to grow more grain because the terrain is just not suited to the grain growing.

Prabhupāda: The land is not suitable?

Madhudviṣa: Well, in Australia there is vast areas which cannot be cultivated, like deserts and semi-deserts. The gentleman's contention is that if we try to grow grains in a semi-desert area it would throw off the balance of the natural, the natural pulse of the earth, let us say, and it would cause havoc in other fields. One of the basic things that our spiritual master is putting forward is that if we put an emphasis on producing food grains and milk and vegetables to live on, concentrating on those points instead of complicating our lives with great industries for cosmetics and film industries and things that are really not essential to us... There's people that don't have the essentials and other people who have all the trappings of the modern technological science. Our spiritual master's contention is that real happiness lies in simple living and high thinking and this is the education that we're trying to put forward. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...these are all misconceptions because I am not this body. I am spirit soul. When the spirit soul goes away, then where is the distinction? Suppose in hospital some Hindu dies or some Muslim dies, some Christian die, the spirit... They are stacked together as useless matter. Is it not? There is no distinction there now, Hindu, Muslim, Christian, white, black. Now it is dead body, put aside. Eh? So, but when living, when the spirit soul is there, they are dividing, this designation. So this knowledge that so long the spirit soul is there in the body, it is important. As soon as the soul is gone, it is useless. But people are giving more stress on the body than on the active principle, living force, what is there. There is no study. Suppose you are all scientists. What is your studying about that living force that is moving the body?

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That I admit. That I admit. Yes.

Dr. Muncing: With respect, sir, I notice you wear a watch. This must be obviously a product of science, and this is what it's about. But you are stressing time and again in your writings the need to concentrate on the laws that you set out in order to achieve some standing in the future, in the life hereafter. Isn't this at the risk of neglecting the people who are sharing this life with us here and now?

Prabhupāda: No, it is not the question of neglecting. Just like formerly there was no watch, but still they used to keep time by the movement of the sun on a dial, just making some marks on the stone. Do you know this?

Guests: Yes, yes, I know.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So their work was going on. Their work was not suffering for want of this watch.

Dr. Muncing: I agree.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So we have got good brain. Instead of utilizing the brain to know what is the active principles of this whole universe, if we utilize that brain for manufacturing a watch, that is not very good proposal. You manufacture watch, but at the same time, you try to study the active principle, who is the watchmaker. I am seeing the watch with the eyes, but as soon as the active principle is gone, no more seeing. Where is that science? A watchmaker is making, screw-driving, and doing so many things. All of a sudden his heart fails. No more watch. What is that active principle? Where is that science? That is my proposition.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:
Madhudviṣa: One thing that we would like to mention, as our spiritual master says, there is a definite, according to the Vedic scripture, there is a definite link between consumption of milk and development of fine brain tissues. And if your department of knowledge has some research in that area, we think it would be a great service to mankind if they can be informed how they can develop fine brain tissues. Fine brain tissues which are needed for coping with the problems of this day and age. Not that simply if I disagree with you we'll just fight. There has to be fine brain tissues in order to say, "Let us sit down and talk about this together." And we say, not we, but according to the scripture, there is a definite link between the consumption of milk products, not just milk, but cheese and all different milk products, the consumption of milk products and development of the necessary intellect. This is why, as our spiritual master said, the highly intelligent people of India have lived predominantly, not just drinking milk, but everything they ate was cooked in milk products. The vegetables, rice, even if rice was boiled, milk was put on, ghee was put on the rice. So that is like an unavoidable essential in their diet, not simply from the palatable standpoint, but actually from the relationship between the physical and the metaphysical progress.

Prabhupāda: And thousands of tons of ghee, clarified butter, was offered in the yajña. The smoke created a kind of cloud which is very good for cultivation. Guest (2): Well, thank you... Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. (end)

Room Conversation -- August 12, 1975, Paris (with French translator):

Prabhupāda: Aurobindo is hodgepodge. It is simply vocabulary. No concrete contribution. Simply words. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In order to learn the science, one must go to the bona fide guru. Otherwise it is not possible. In the Bhagavad-gītā, find this verse.

tad viddhi praṇipātena
paripraśnena sevayā
upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ
jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ
(BG 4.34)

French Devotee: Chapter Four?

Devotee (1): You should read the French. (French devotee reads Sanskrit and French translation)

Prabhupāda: Purport. (devotee reads Purport in French) You come here. Sit facing them. If they have got any question about this?

Yogeśvara (translating): He said he would be happy if the spiritual master was speaking French because Kṛṣṇa is only speaking French now.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa speaks in all languages, and He speaks so perfectly that everyone thinks that He speaks only in his language. He could speak with the birds even. There is a Sanskrit word, babhudak. This means one who can speak all languages. So it is stated there in the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, Nectar of Devotion, that on the bank of Yamunā He was one day talking with a bird. Every living being has got a different language.

Room Conversations -- September 10, 1974, Vrndavana:

So this is called anartha, a position which is false. Anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje (SB 1.7.6). In order to deliver him from this illusory position, anartha upaśamaṁ bhakti-yoga. Bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje lokasya ajānataḥ. The whole world does not know it. Vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām. Therefore, Vyāsadeva, the most learned, he compiled this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje. These things are there in the Bhāgavata. Same process. Vyāsadeva did for the benefit of the whole world, the Gosvāmīs did for the benefit of the whole world, and we are also trying to do the same thing.

anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād
bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje
lokasyājānato vidvāṁś
cakre sātvata-saṁhitām
(SB 1.7.6)

This is paramparā system. The Gosvāmīs also did it. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau, for the benefit of the (indistinct). We are pushing this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement for the benefit of the whole world, not that for our individual person. Vaiṣṇava, whatever he does, he does for the whole world, not for his person. Bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmī, they do for their own person. Karmīs, jñānīs, yogis, for their personal benefit. That is also materialism. Vaiṣṇavism, lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau tri-bhuvane mānyau. Therefore, honored all over the three worlds, their activities and their person. Tri-bhuvane mānyau śaraṇyākarau. Therefore, they should be taken shelter of. Vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura confirmed, ei chaya gosāñi yāra, tāra mui dāsa, "One who has taken shelter of the six Gosvāmīs, I am his servant, nobody's servant."

Room Conversations -- September 11, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: To the qualified physician, not to the storekeeper. Similarly, first thing is, when you want to solve the problem, you must go to the right person. First of all you have to select. So we understand that Kṛṣṇa is the right person. So therefore, it is guaranteed. He knows everything. Others, they do not know. May know to some extent, not perfect. The first thing is that we have to select from whom. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In Vedas it is stated in order to solve the problem or to understand the situation, you should go to the guru. So who can be better than Kṛṣṇa as guru? He taught, He gave lessons to Brahmā, the original living creature in this universe. Tene brahma hṛdā. He gave lessons to Brahmā how to create. Therefore, who can be better guru than Kṛṣṇa? Or even Brahmā. Brahmā, (indistinct) he has created this universe, but He taught Brahmā. And Kṛṣṇa is accepted as the supreme guru. To take instruction from Him or His pure representative, that is wanted. Otherwise, there will be trouble(?). You cannot compare any ordinary person with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the original guru, instructor. You do not know about Kṛṣṇa, that is a different thing. But if you want to solve your problems, you must approach the guru. That is the Vedic instruction.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. But first of all, the basic principle is we have to understand that our senses are imperfect, and whatever knowledge we gather by these imperfect senses, they are imperfect. So if we want perfect knowledge, then we have to approach somebody whose senses are perfect, whose knowledge is perfect. That is the principle. That is the Vedic principle. Therefore the Vedic principle says, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). You know Sanskrit, yes. "In order to know that perfect knowledge, one should approach guru." So who is guru? Then the next question will be... Your question is that, "How I can?"

Guest (1): How can I know that...?

Prabhupāda: That I am coming. That I am coming. Guru... That is next line. It is said, śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham. Guru means who has properly heard the Vedas, śruti. Śrotriyam. And as a result of his hearing he is firmly convinced in the existence of the Absolute Truth, God.

Professor: Well, this is... We've only come to one of the mentioned(?) theories of knowledge, I think, śabda.

Prabhupāda: Sata? Śabda, yes, śabda-brahman. Yes.

Professor: Then if you are able to communicate to heart with knowledge through śabda, no?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Śabda-brahman. Just like many thousands of miles away we are getting some radio message and we learn that "Something is happening there. Something is there." Therefore śabda. This is... Śabda means sound, sound, sound vibration. So that is the real source of knowledge. That is the real source of... Śabda-brahman.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Hṛdayānanda: He says that in order...

Prabhupāda: No, he wants to say something.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying that in order to do any activity it requires some motivation. And so therefore one gets this realization by practicing, but it seems like someone would have to be a special person with something inside him in order to have the determination to practice it, in order to go ahead to try to get the realization.

Prabhupāda: Yes that is required. There must be determination, and whatever knowledge you get, that must be for practical use. Now, just like in the Bhagavad-gītā... Shall I speak? That he says that the proprietor of the body is within the body. Now, you make your thoughts working on this, that what is that proprietor? And you find that actually this body is not the proprietor, but body is the property, the proprietor is within the body. Then your knowledge is perfect. Then your thoughts, your reasoning... You accept the statement of Kṛṣṇa that the proprietor of the body is within the body. That is knowledge, perfect knowledge. What Kṛṣṇa says, that is perfect, but you corroborate with your reason, with your experimental knowledge, and you will find that is perfect. Then it is perfect.

Morning Walk -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Hṛdayānanda: Prabhupāda, that was really wonderful, what you explained, that previously the people would build a very wonderful temple, and the ordinary people would just live in a very common, simple house.

Prabhupāda: Not for themselves. They knew the art how to manufacture nice building, but they did not care for personal use. It was used for Kṛṣṇa. Sometimes only the kings, in order to keep their position, they used to have gorgeous building. Otherwise ordinary men, cottage. (break) To live in cottage means to save time.

Mexican devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in one of the magazines I read that there was a saint who he didn't even construct a rug?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Romaharṣaṇa. (break) Bhagavad-gītā it is said, yajñād bhavanti parjanyaḥ, yajñād bhavanti parjanyaḥ. If there is timely cloud and rainfall, this ground can be moistened very easily. But they won't perform yajña; therefore there is scarcity of cloud and rain. Now they have to manufacture this sprinkler. And it is not perfect.

Room Conversation with Metaphysics Society -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Hṛdayānanda: They want to make a synthesis of all the best practices of different cultures to present it to the people so they can have understanding without prejudice.

Prabhupāda: No, prejudice is different thing, but what is the science?

Guest (Hṛdayānanda): He said the basis of the movement is to get knowledge through the use of their faculties in order to raise the consciousness.

Prabhupāda: To which platform the consciousness?

Guest (Hṛdayānanda): He said that they do not feel that they can go very high. They feel that they are in the hands of the great spiritual masters such as yourself and others also.

Prabhupāda: So do they aim to go to the highest point?

Guest (Hṛdayānanda): They feel the highest point is to understand themselves and...

Prabhupāda: So has he understood himself?

Guest (Hṛdayānanda): He said that to a certain extent he feels he has achieved this, but that the reality is unlimited, it cannot be described and that it's more a certain consciousness or appreciation of life that is beyond words.

Prabhupāda: Not clear understanding.

Room Conversation with Psychiatrist -- February 22, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: It is not... It is beyond intellectual. The intellect also belong to the body. But understanding of the soul is beyond intellectual.

Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He said that he has come with the idea that in order to pursue the philosophy, whatever philosophy we have, that the body must be in the best possible condition.

Prabhupāda: That I have already said, that the driver is different from the car. But if you simply take care of the car, not of the driver, is that very good intelligence?

Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He agrees with that, that one should keep the body in the best condition in order to try to advance in life as far as possible.

Prabhupāda: No, unless you take care of the driver, the car cannot run.

Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He also believes in the spiritual advancement, but he feels that the body must be kept in the best possible condition.

Prabhupāda: That we also say. We never say... I have already given the example that the driver is different from the car, but if you simply take care of the car and do not take care of the driver, is that very good intelligence?

Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): So he agrees with you.

Prabhupāda: So the driver is not in order—he may create disaster at any moment. So the insanity is not of the car, but the insanity is of the driver. So when we feel problems of the humanity, it means the insanity of the soul, not of the body. And because the driver, or the soul, is not taken care of, therefore so many problems are coming in the body. Just like, if one man takes care of hygienic principle, his bodily ailments are less, similarly, if the driver is kept in proper sanity, then there will be no accidents in the car. Another example: just like the bird in, the cage. If you take care of the cage only and do not supply any food to the bird, it will cry, "Tanh! Tanh! Tanh! Tanh!" (aside to devotee:) This gentleman comes. Give him a seat. So the problem is: if we don't take care of the driver or the bird in the cage, the human problems will not diminish, it will increase. Keeping the car in good order does not mean taking care of the driver. And if you don't take care of the driver, the disasters of the car will increase. So what is the program of taking care of the driver? Factually, they do not know what is the driver. And what to speak of taking care of it? This is the problem, real problem. Do you think it is all right or not?

Room Conversation with Psychiatrist -- February 22, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: So he is interested only on the temporary life. Never mind. There may be disaster.

Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): As a doctor, he says he is naturally interested in this life in the problems of the body, but he also feels that a human being should follow whatever philosophy he chooses in order to achieve what one may call the spiritual world or eternal happiness.

Prabhupāda: Then it is something like that, that the motor mechanic is interested with the motor car, but he is not interested with the welfare of the driver. But the fact is, if the driver is not in order, the car will not go. It may be well-equipped, well-engined, well-oiled, but if the driver is defective, it will create another disaster.

Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He feels that you don't understand what he's saying, that actually he does not feel that we should dedicate ourselves exclusively to the body...

Prabhupāda: I don't say exclusively. I say the first care should be taken of the driver, and taking care of the car is secondary.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the field where the scientists are trying to prove that life is originated from matter, this type of research work. I called the director of that institute a couple of days ago and I told him I wanted to look around. And he told me that we need a formal application in order to visit that center so I'm going to make. (to guest:) Ordinarily in there, what do they do?

Guest (1): There are a number of projects and there are a number of disciplines in which people work. Mine is experimental nutrition.

Prabhupāda: So you are also believing that life comes from matter? (laughter)

Guest (1): No, I don't think we think in those directions at all. We simply just conduct experiments, not knowing what they will lead to and try to describe whatever we see under the microscope. (indistinct) chemical matters that we use.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But I think you have assumed that Darwin's theory or theory of evolution is already there and even to study something intermediate, higher levels, evolution is all right but...

Prabhupāda: Basic means evolution.

Morning Walk -- March 11, 1975, London:

Brahmānanda: So he stayed in India, and the other, he went to Africa.

Prabhupāda: No, he was the emperor of the whole world. But the jungle part... Somebody... The whole world was known as Bhāratavarṣa, this planet, nine varṣas: Bhārata-varṣa, Ketumāla-varṣa, Ilāvṛta-varṣa... the whole universal situation is mentioned, where different lands are there. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...ages, Śrīla Prabhupāda, did the people, in order to get valuable minerals and gold and things like that, did they mine underneath the ground?

Prabhupāda: No. There was no need of coal. And the jewelries and stones were received from the sea-pearls, valuable stones from the hills.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So they didn't dig deep holes underneath the ground?

Prabhupāda: No. There was no need. The richest persons' property were ivory, gold, marble, valuable jewels, pearls, silk. This was luxury, not plastic. Now they have advanced, they have got plastic, no gold, no silver. Paper money and plastic utensils. This is advancement.

Brahmānanda: Do we consider ivory as something pure or impure?

Prabhupāda: No, pure.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: By birth they are advanced. They have got intelligence. But for Kṛṣṇa consciousness everyone can be purified, even the non-Āryans. It is without any check. Ahaituky apratihatā. Apratihatā means without any material check. It is not a disqualification that one is not an Āryan, therefore he cannot understand God. No. He can also be trained up. Because it is spiritual, and we are all spiritual identities, so it is not difficult. Even one who is not spiritual at the present moment, but by training he can also become spiritual.

Young man: In other words, one has to make an intellectual effort or at least in order to...

Prabhupāda: It is not very highly intellectual. One has to understand first of all that he is not this body. That anyone can understand, that "I am changing my body, but I am there. Therefore I am not this body." Just like a child's coat, when he is young man, that coat does not fit him. So that young man means he has got another body. But the young man knows, he remembers, that he was a child. He was on the lap of his parents or his relatives. So that body is no longer existing. I have got a different body, but I who had the childhood body, I am existing. Is it very difficult to understand, any one of you? The body has changed. That's a fact. But I am the same. (break) What is that?

Devotee: The demands of the body makes it...

Atreya Ṛṣi: The attachment to the body...

Prabhupāda: No, attachment to the body is not bad. Just like you have got a nice car. So you have got attachment for it. But you must know that you are not the car. That everyone can... A child can understand. But because I have got attachment for something, it does not mean I am that thing. I have got attachment for so many things. That is natural. Anything I possess, I have got attachment. But that does not mean I am that thing. But here the mistake is that because we have got attachment for the body, I am identifying myself as the body. That is ignorance, illusion.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: God is always helping, but if you do not accept it... God says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) "You give up all other engagement and take My shelter," but you are not doing that. That is your fault. So it cannot be failure unless you are negligent. You have no utsāhaḥ. This is the process. Utsāhaḥ dhairyaḥ niścayaḥ tat-tat-karma-pravartanaḥ, sato vṛtteḥ. How these boys are advancing? They have got enthusiasm: "Yes, we must make progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness." They have given up everything. They are young men. They have got... Every young man has to satisfy senses in so many ways. But no. They are so enthusiastic, but... For understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness they have given up everything. They are Europeans, Americans. They have got so many allurement. But I have told them that "You must give up illicit sex," they have given up; "You must give up meat-eating," they have given up; "You must give up intoxication up to drinking tea and cigarette," and they have given up, these young men. So they are utsāhaḥ. There is enthusiasm: "Yes, we must do it." That is wanted, not theoretically on the armchair of devotional service. That will not be successful. Armchair theory will not help you. You must be practical and there must be enthusiasm. Then it will be successful. You are sitting in the same position and you are thinking that you are making progress. That will fail. You have to come out with enthusiasm. Then it will be successful. That is required. Ciraṁ vicinvan. There is a verse,

athāpi te deva padāmbuja-
dvaya-prasāda-leśānugṛhīta eva hi
jānāti tattvaṁ na cānya
eko 'pi ciraṁ vicinvan
(SB 10.14.29)

If you simply speculate, it will never help you. You have to receive the favor of the Supreme Lord by your enthusiasm. Then it will be successful. Simply theorizing, speculation will not... Therefore it is said ciraṁ vicinvan. You can go on speculating for millions and millions of years. It will never be successful. Ciram. Ciram means perpetual. That will not help. This is the process, ādau śraddhā. By śraddhā, "Oh, here is God consciousness, very nice. Let us come and see what they are doing." This is called śraddhā, faith, little faith. Then in order to increase that faith you have to associate with the persons who are executing devotional service. That is called sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83). The devotees are called sādhu. Therefore we are opening centers, why? To give chance people to make association with the devotees. Sādhu-saṅga. And then sādhu-saṅga, after sādhu-saṅga one who has properly made sādhu-saṅga, the next stage is bhajana-kriyā: how they are executing devotional service. Then anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. Then this anartha. Anartha means unwanted things.

Interview with a German Girl and Assorted Devotees -- March 30, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Jaya. (aside:) Stop that also. (break) ...kṛpana bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ, yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). This gṛhastha life is a concession for sex life. Otherwise, there is no need of gṛhastha life. But everything can be used to make the best use of a bad bargain. That is another thing. Actually, to become free from all responsibility and anxieties, if one remains a brahmacārī, that is very good. That is the recommendation of śāstra. But if you cannot... Because the material world is going on under sex impulse, by nature the sex impulse is there. He will agitate you. But if you can control by becoming a rigid brahmacārī, that is better. But it is difficult. Therefore this concession is given. But what is this concession? The concession is sex life. That's all. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi sukhaṁ hi tuccham kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham. It is an itching sensation. And after satisfying the itching sensation, there are so many responsibilities and trouble. But tṛpyanti neha kṛpanāḥ. Those who are kṛpanāḥ, does not know how to utilize this life... So once I have taken to sex life and I am suffering so many after... Of course, now to stop the suffering, the have invented this contraceptive method. He knows there is suffering, but they, in order to avoid this suffering, they're taking this contraceptive method. And that is also suffering. That he does not know. Bhrun hatyā. Contraceptive method means killing the embryo. So that is also another sinful. He's taking so much responsibilities. So either you take contraceptive method or do not take contraceptive method... If you do not take, then the child is born. Then you have to take responsibility. Now they're killing the child, in this way becoming implicated. But if one is trained up to remain a rigid brahmacārī, there is no trouble.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Who wants happiness? I want protect this body—why? Because I am within this body. And if I go away from this body, who seeks for the happiness of this body? This common reason, they have no sense. Why I am seeking happiness? I am covering this body because the body may not be affected by cold. Then why I am seeking happiness of the body from cold and heat? Because I am within the... If I go away from the within the body, then there is no more seeking after happiness. Either you throw it on the street or it is in extreme cold or extreme heat, it doesn't matter. Then who is seeking happiness? That they do not know. For whom you are so busy for happiness? That they do not know. Just like cats and dogs.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But they think they have no time to chant the holy name.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Their philosophy is that to be, in order to be happy, they have to work all day long.

Prabhupāda: Hm. That is your philosophy. You are rascals, but we are not working. Why don't you see our example? We are simply living happily.

Satsvarūpa: But they say we're living off their work.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Satsvarūpa: They work and we beg money from them, they say.

Prabhupāda: We don't beg money from them. We take their money in the way that they'll use it for bad purposes, so we take it for Kṛṣṇa. They'll drink. They'll smoke. They'll have illicit sex and go to hell. Therefore, out of our humbleness, we have become beggar, just like a father asking the child... He has taken one hundred rupees note and spoiling. "My dear child, you are so nice. Why you are taking this? Give this. Take a lozenges." Like that. We are not for their money. That's a wrong theory.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Suffering for all these sinful activities, always throbbing. See the newspaper. The newspaper is full of news—one side, everyone is restless condition, throbbing, and another news, sense gratification. That's all.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is it necessary for people to leave the cities and live in our varṇāśrama situations in order to become happy?

Prabhupāda: You haven't got to leave anything, provided you understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are not after leaving or accepting. We are not after this. We are after understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness. What... What shall I leave? Suppose if I leave city—I come here—still it is God's property. So what, what I leave? What I have got that I have to leave? Everything God's property. If you have something, then you can leave. But if you have nothing, what you will leave? It is another bogus. This is Māyāvādī theory. Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. Why jagan mithyā? If Brahman is satya, jagan is also satya. (break) ...means they are trying to possess, and the jñānīs are trying to leave—both of them rascals. Where is the question of possessing? Stealing. You... I want to possess, but that thing does not belong to me. Therefore it is stealing. And the jñānīs are trying to give up living. That is also not truth. But you haven't got anything, so what you are going to leave? So both are in ignorance, the karmīs and jñānīs, the yogis. Simply Kṛṣṇa conscious persons, they are in knowledge. Before your birth the land was there, the world was there. Everything is there. Now you came. Then how do you possess? Before your birth, things were there. How do you possess unless you steal and cheat? Hm? What is the answer?

Pañcadraviḍa: I have inherited it.

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1975, Mayapur:

Pañcadraviḍa: They clam, then, unless you speak Sanskrit, you have to interpret Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: No, that means if you are a nonsense, you better remain silent. Don't interpret. It is better not to talk than to talk nonsense. What is the meaning of that interpretation. If you do not know Sanskrit, stop speaking. Why do you make imagination?

Pañcadraviḍa: Well, their claim is you have to read the Gītā in Sanskrit in order for it to be read as it is.

Prabhupāda: Now, now, in the very beginning it is said, dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre (BG 1.1). Now interpret. What is your interpretation, dharma-kṣetre? What is your interpretation, kuru-kṣetre? Come on, in the beginning. They cannot interpret anything.

Santoṣa: In that verse, aparyāptam bhīmābhirakṣitam...

Prabhupāda: Eh? Eh?

Santoṣa: That verse, aparyāptaṁ bhīmābhirakṣitam.

Prabhupāda: Yes?

Santosa: They make so many interpretations of that word, aparyaptam.

Prabhupāda: How they can...? Aparya... It is... The other party says that "Bhīma is not so expert fighter." He was speaking to Bhīṣmadeva that "You are so nice, expert commander. Bhīma is not so expert commander. Therefore even they have got some soldiers, they'll not be properly guided." This is the real meaning. How you can interpret? What is their interpretation?

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Rūpānuga: We don't remember being a hog, so...

Prabhupāda: That is hoggism, that you do not remember. Therefore you are hog. Because you do not remember, therefore you are hog. That is the distinction.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Why did God create death in order to stop our enjoyment?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Why did God create death?

Prabhupāda: No, therefore you are under the control of God. You understand it. So you cannot become free. Therefore death is there, ultimately. You are thinking you are free of the kingdom of God, or laws of God. "No, you are not free. You'll die and you'll accept another body and according to My decision." That is God. This is a question like "Why government created punishment? Why not enjoy ourself without any punishment?" It is a question like that. And that cannot be. It is not possible. That is the proof that there is God.

Trivikrama: Death.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Trivikrama: Death is the proof that there is God.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Paramahaṁsa: Purport: "Śrīla Baladeva Vidyābhūṣaṇa, a great commentator on the Bhagavad-gītā, writes as follows: ye indrādy-aṅgatayāvasthitaṁ yajñaṁ sarveśvaraṁ viṣṇum abhyarcya tac-cheṣam aśnanti tena tad deha-yātrāṁ sampādayanti, te santaḥ sarveśvarasya bhaktāḥ sarva-kilbiṣair anādi-kāla-vivṛddhair ātmānubhava-pratibandhakair nikhilaiḥ pāpair vimucyante(?). The Supreme Lord, who is known as the yajña-puruṣaḥ, or the personal beneficiary of all sacrifices, is the master of all demigods who serve Him as the different limbs of the body serve the whole. Demigods like Indra, Candra, Varuṇa, etc., are appointed officers who manage material affairs, and the Vedas direct sacrifices to satisfy these demigods so that they may be pleased to supply air, light and water sufficiently to produce food grains. When Lord Kṛṣṇa is worshiped, the demigods, who are different limbs of the Lord, are also automatically worshiped; therefore there is no separate need to worship the demigods.

For this reason, the devotees of the Lord, who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, offer food to Kṛṣṇa and then eat—a process which nourishes the body spiritually. By such action not only are past sinful reactions in the body vanquished, but the body becomes immunized to all contamination of material nature. When there is an epidemic disease, an antiseptic vaccine protects a person from the attack of such an epidemic. Similarly, food offered to Lord Viṣṇu and then taken by us makes us sufficiently resistant to material affection, and one who is accustomed to this practice is called a devotee of the Lord. Therefore, a person in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, who eats only food offered to Kṛṣṇa, can counteract all reactions of past material infections, which are impediments to the progress of self-realization. On the other hand, one who does not do so continues to increase the volume of sinful action, and this prepares the next body to resemble hogs and dogs, to suffer the resultant reactions of all sins.

The material world is full of contamination, and one who is immunized by accepting prasādam of the Lord, food offered to Viṣṇu, is saved from the attack, whereas one who does not do so becomes subjected to contamination. Food grains or vegetables are factually eatables. The human being eats different kinds of food grains, vegetables, fruits, etc., and the animals eat the refuse of the food grains and vegetables, grass, plants, etc. Human beings who are accustomed to eating meat and flesh must also depend on the production of vegetation in order to eat the animals. Therefore, ultimately, we have to depend on the production of the field and not on the production of big factories. The field production is due to sufficient rain from the sky, and such rains are controlled by demigods like Indra, sun, moon, etc., and they are all servants of the Lord. The Lord can be satisfied by sacrifices; therefore, one who cannot perform them will find himself in scarcity—that is the law of nature.

Yajña, specifically the saṅkīrtana-yajña prescribed for this age, must be therefore performed to save us at least from scarcity of food supply."

Prabhupāda: Did you follow? So the only remedy is that you should perform yajña. And this yajña is, in this age, yajña, performance of yajña, is very costly affair. At the present moment, things are not available. So you should perform yajña. If you don't perform yajña, then nature will restrict supply and put so many impediments. That yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ... (BG 3.14). If you regularly perform yajña, then there will be sufficient rainfall. There is sufficient water. Just like all around there is water. There is no scarcity of water. But you cannot touch it without God's intervention. The same water will be converted into cloud and will be distributed on the land, and the water again glide down to the reservoir of water. This is nature's way. But if you do not perform yajña, this machine will not work to get water from the sea, convert into cloud, and then distribute. This will be restricted.

Morning Walk -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes, no illicit sex, no... This is the method, and chanting is the process. Then you will remain strong. And if you neglect, then you become weak. To remain strong is not difficult, but we don't want to remain strong. That is our decision. Otherwise it is not difficult. But we don't want to remain strong. We voluntarily become weak. Then māyā catches, "Come on."

Devotee (2): Is it necessary to see the Deity regularly in order to remain strong?

Prabhupāda: Yes, everything necessary as we have prescribed. If you think that it is not necessary, unnecessary, then you under the māyā. Why do you take that, "Is it necessary?" That means you are not strong enough. You cannot follow; therefore you say, "Is it necessary?" You are considering. That means you are becoming prey to māyā. As soon as you ask this, that means you have already fallen a victim of māyā.

Devotee (1): Kṛṣṇa says "without doubting."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: So how to get those people who are immersed in māyā to become serious? When we go out and we preach our saṅkīrtana movement, how to get...

Prabhupāda: They will become gradually. Not all of a sudden. They are purchasing one book. They will read, and gradually they will be elevated. You go to school, but all of a sudden, you cannot say that "I am M.A." You have to wait. That is called dhairya, utsāhād dhairyāt. One should be very enthusiastic, at the same time, patient. If you think that "I am very enthusiastic; still, I am not getting the result," be patient. Niścayāt. Be sure the result will come, but be patient. These are the ways. Utsāhād dhairyāt niścayāt tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt. You have to follow the regulative principles. Sato vṛtteḥ. You should be honest. You are not following, and still, you say "I am devotee." That means you are not honest. Sato vṛtteḥ sādhu-saṅge, and in the association of devotees. Ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati. By following these six principles, you advance. This is the Rūpa Gosvāmī's instruction.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Gerson: Many of the defects that the tests might measure are defects that are measured against an insane society that considers itself sane. And so they aren't defects even if they show up.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you will find defects. But if the devotees stick to Kṛṣṇa consciousness principle, these defects will soon become finished.

Revatīnandana: One thing specifically he wants to do in order to counteract this propaganda against the Gurukula which had serious impact, he wants to do some of this testing with the children in a way that is specifically done with children to show that these children are actually happy and they're developing nicely. He wanted to know if that would be permissable for him to do some testing at the Gurukula with the children.

Prabhupāda: That depends on your management, how you are raising the children. If they are Kṛṣṇa conscious, then it is all right. So far bodily defects, you might find. But we are denying from the very beginning, "I am not this body." So by finding some bodily defects how you will decide about the spirit? Because spirit is not this body. You cannot conclude that because there are some bodily defects, therefore he has got spiritual defect. That is not right conclusion. The same example: "because there are some dirty things in the Ganges, the Ganges is no more good." That conclusion is wrong.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. John Mize: How does the mind, then, come to know that there is a soul?

Prabhupāda: That I say, that you have to educated. How these people are convinced about the soul? They have been educated by practice and by knowledge. Everything has to be learned by being educated. And therefore the Vedic injunction is tad-vijñānārtham, "In order to know that science," gurum eva abhigacchet, "you must go to guru, teacher." So the answer is that you must go to the teacher who can teach you how the soul is there.

Bahulāśva: Prabhupāda, the professor asked what is the relationship with the soul and the mind?

Prabhupāda: Mind is there in the soul, but the mind is now polluted by material contamination. Just like a madman. He has got his mind, but his mind is contaminated. Therefore he requires treatment by psychiatrist. You cannot say the madman has no mind. He has got mind, but it is contaminated. You have to make treatment. So mind is there. Everything is there in the soul. And now the mind, contaminated by the matter, it is perverted. The same example: A madman has got mind, but it is useless. He is simply acting in madness. The same madman, when properly treated, he will act like a sane man. So mind is there always, in the pure soul or in the material body. Everything is spiritual. The soul is spiritual; the mind is spiritual; the intelligence is spiritual. But it is now contaminated. So you have to make treatment. When it is purified, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then mind is controlled, intelligence properly acting, and soul is in his proper position. Therefore those who are under treatment, they must be strict observation—he may not do something wrong so that treatment may be hampered.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Brahmānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, Rāmeśvara would like to show you some paintings. They are bringing the book to the printer this evening.

Prabhupāda: All right. I am coming. (break)

Rāmeśvara: "...and uninterrupted in order to completely satisfy the self."

Prabhupāda: Unmotivated means "Oh, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, service of Kṛṣṇa, is so nice. Let me begin immediately." Now, "What will be the result? What shall I gain? What is the profit?" No such consideration. "Begin immediately." And if you begin in that way, there is no impediment. Apratihatā. It is so nice thing. In the material world, if you want to begin some work, then you require some preliminary qualification. It doesn't require any preliminary qualification. Whatever qualification you have got, that is sufficient. Begin. And nobody can say, "Oh, I am not educated," "I am not rich," or "I am not born of a high family." There are so many. No. These things are not impediments. Educated or uneducated, culture or no culture, it doesn't matter. You can begin immediately. The Indian culture was checked by the caste brāhmaṇas, that "This Kṛṣṇa consciousness is meant for the Hindus." Therefore it was not spread. Such a great thing, philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā, remained covered because they thought it is meant for the Hindus, for the Indians, or those who came out of India, they misinterpreted in a rubbish way. And now it is being presented as it is, it is becoming effective. Therefore apratihatā: nothing material can check its progress. Unless one voluntarily refuses it, there is no checking. Some other professor was to come?

Brahmānanda: Yes, but he did not come.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So you cannot stop war between bad elements. Make them good. Then you can avoid. You cannot stop fighting between the dogs. That is not possible. If you try to make the dogs stop fighting, it is not possible. Is it possible? Then it is useless attempt. You keep the human being as dogs, and you want stop fighting. That is not possible, impractical.

Peter: Must a person believe in Kṛṣṇa in order to chant?

Prabhupāda: You must believe somebody. You believe in God or not?

Peter: Do I believe in God?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Peter: Um...

Prabhupāda: Doubtful. (laughter)

Peter: Yeah, I guess you could say that.

Prabhupāda: So first of all you have to believe yourself that you are part and parcel of God.

Morning Walk -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So is there any news of the land?

Nitāi: No word. Gopāla Kṛṣṇa has not been there in Vṛndāvana. He has been in Bombay.

Prabhupāda: No, it was entrusted to Praṇava.

Nitāi: Oh, Praṇava has not said anything, sent any word with me. Viśvambhara is very enthusiastic for starting the Gurukula there. He has said that he can give more than a lakh in order to build a building. Previously he promised a lakh but he said that there is more money he can continually give for supporting the Gurukula there.

Prabhupāda: So I have sent news to Praṇava to complete the negotiation, and he has done nothing?

Nitāi: I don't know whether he has done or not.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...doctor?

Nitāi: The doctor is staying there. He is... (break) ...for a few days and stays, and then he goes for a few days. Then he comes. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...Pradyumna is doing?

Nitāi: Pradyumna has gone to Māyāpur to help train the Sastris.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Nitāi: To teach the Sastris English, he has gone to Māyāpur. They have all gone to Māyāpur because they were facing criticism from the residents of Vṛndāvana. Many of their old schoolmates were criticizing that they are coming and joining us. These are... (break) ...are very desirous of taking initiation from you.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Nitāi: Ananta Ram Sastri and one other, I forget his name. He is very, very good in Sanskrit. He reads it fluently, speaks it fluently.

Prabhupāda: He speaks Sanskrit also?

Nitāi: Yes. Speaks it. He lectures in Sanskrit.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's good.

Morning Walk -- July 2, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: No, in bad weather, towers, but simply by touching, such a big machine became in fire. (laughs) Unsafe everywhere. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadam (SB 10.14.58). Every step, there is danger.

Brahmānanda: One of our devotees... I was speaking to him. He was formerly in the air force, an electrician. And he was saying how there are so many wires in an airplane, and actually, when he was electrician, they would put the wires together very hastily in order to get the job done. And he said one of those wires could go wrong and then...

Prabhupāda: Finish everything.

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Brahmānanda: He said the tendency is when you have a job is that you try to find some shortcut.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: So everyone is looking for that some shortcut, how to do it quicker, faster.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...working sincerely? Nobody. In the material world they cannot work sincerely. (break) ...experienced when any enterprise goes under government supervision, it immediately spoiled. Nobody work sincerely. When it is a private concern, one is sincere because it is his business. If it goes wrong, he will suffer. But when it is government concern, they become irresponsible. That is the experience. Immediately, "Oh, my service is secure. I cannot be kicked out suddenly. So I may do or not do." This is going on.

Morning Walk -- July 3, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: That is a Frankenstein? (laughter)

Yadubara: They're very persistent, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: That is the foolishness. Fools are very persistent.

Brahmānanda: I was reading that in order to go to the moon, it took ten years and the cost was 25 billion dollars.

Prabhupāda: Just see how foolish they are. And again they are trying. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Chewing the chewed. This is their business. Horrible civilization.

Kāśīrāma: Mistaking suffering for happiness.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ambarīṣa: They are always trying to look for the bright side, but there is no bright side.

Prabhupāda: Just like north of Sweden, there is no sunrise?

Brahmānanda: No.

Prabhupāda: So where is bright side? Where is bright side? Vedic injunction is tamasi mā jyotir gama: "Don't remain in this darkness; go to the bright world." Jyotir gama. (break) ...to create some bright side. He will not be allowed to enjoy it. He will have to die. So where is your bright side? (break) ...for preparing?

Brahmānanda: For the moon? 25 billion dollars.

Room Conversation with City Counselor -- July 10, 1975, Chicago:

Śrī Govinda: (indistinct) to come today.

Prabhupāda: Very good. Very good.

City Counselor: Thank you. No, I have the pleasure of having the temple located in the area which I represent on the city council, and I've found the temple to be a welcome addition to the city. I have no questions. There are formalities which have to be met in order for the temple to be repaired. And I'm sure that as soon as these formalities are met then the work can proceed, but er...

Prabhupāda: What are the formalities?

Śrī Govinda: There's been some delay in the approval on the building due to different building violations and we have to receive approval from the zoning board of appeals, then the city council. And it's a matter of time. But also there has been some opposition in the city council, and...

Prabhupāda: So what can I do? What is the difficulty? What do you want from us?

City Counselor: Really nothing. The only problem is that there are certain rules and regulations that all the citizens of Evanston must comply with. And that's all that has been asked to be done. Originally, as I expressed, there were some... This property, the temple, is located in an area which is zoned for business. And there were some originally who wished to maintain that...

Prabhupāda: But there are so many churches...

City Counselor: Yes, there are many churches, yes. And I think...

Prabhupāda: So what is the fault if there is a temple?

City Counselor: Well, I think the... Originally, again I say, some of the no..., not I, but some had some objections to any church, any temple...

Prabhupāda: But already there are churches. I have seen so many churches surrounding our temple.

Room Conversation with City Counselor -- July 10, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Then what can I do? If they go out of law, then what can I do?

Jagadīśa: They want to make their own law.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing.

City Counselor: Again, I think the problem now will be complying with the building laws in order to get the temple in safe condition. That's the only problem now. I don't think that there is opposition to the temple per se.

Prabhupāda: Then it is... It comes to the conclusion of suppression, that "Give the dog a bad name and hang it." "You are not properly dressed; therefore you should stop it." It is like that.

Śrī Govinda: We have spoken very sincerely to the other aldermen and Mr. Winfield practically is the only one who has responded.

Prabhupāda: So public vote. Elect Nixon and then drag him down. This is public opinion. Sometimes make him president, sometimes drag him down. So what is the value of these votes?

City Counselor: Well, I can certainly pledge that wherever I find and can identify prejudices...

Prabhupāda: If they become unreasonable, whimsical, then who can defend? There is no such law that one should have a particular dress in their church or temple. There is no such law. But they are insisting about the dress. What is this?

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Living entities within the body, they come out, hundreds and thousands. They have not died. Suppose in this jungle there are so many living entities. If I die, what has got to do with them?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But science tries to understand what is life and in order to do that they just want to understand what is cell. Because science tries to understand what is life, and in order to do that they just want to study what is the cell because cells are the smallest living units of life. That is their understanding. So once they understand what a cell is, then they know what life is. That is their aim. So if the cells and the jīvātmā within the heart, they are different and they are independent, then they cannot conceive of just having a jīvātmā in the heart.

Prabhupāda: That... The particular jīvātmā who has been given this body, he is living in the heart.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: But according to the scientists, our body is made up of little cells just like a brick wall is made up of so many individual bricks. Each... Like in one piece of skin there is...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is body. Just like I live in a house. The house is made of so many bricks. But I am not brick.

Morning Walk -- July 17, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: "I created God."

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And you were created by dog. (laughter)

Dharmādhyakṣa: That is a very big theory of the modern atheists that God is simply the creation of man's imagination in order to fulfill certain psychological needs.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the cause of creation?

Dharmādhyakṣa: Mother nature.

Prabhupāda: So mother nature... Where is the father? (laughter) You rascal, without father, mother can give any birth?

Dharmādhyakṣa: Well, it's asexual. There's some animals...

Prabhupāda: No, no. So animal is their father? Where is the father? It is all right, "mother nature," but everyone knows without father, mother is useless.

Jayatīrtha: It's a fact.

Morning Walk -- July 17, 1975, San Francisco:

Dharmādhyakṣa: But that is why they are engaged in science in order to master nature. They realize they are dependent.

Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. That is another foolish-ness, and we fools shall be misled by these rascals. All future. "Yes, in future we shall do this. In future we shall do that." Post-dated check. "I give you millions of dollars by check." It is six months after. "Yes, you take it." So who is the foolish man who will take, accept a post-dated check? A foolish man may be satisfied, "Now I have one million dollars." That is another thing.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Check comes back stamped, "Insufficient Funds."

Prabhupāda: "No funds." (laughter)

Bahulāśva: "Account closed."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- July 18, 1975, San Francisco:

ayatīrtha: The Śaivites go down to the burning ghāṭas. The Śaivites, they go down to the place where the bodies are being burned in order to meditate on the fact that everyone is going to die.

Prabhupāda: What is meditation? Without meditation even, one can understand, if he is intelligent.

Jayatīrtha: Yes. So much trouble.

Bahulāśva: So one must become convinced philosophically.

Prabhupāda: Why philosophically? Philosophy means, at the present moment, mental concoction. We don't say that. Philosophy means to find out the reality. That is philosophy, not that "I think like this. He thinks like this. He thinks like this." That is not philosophy; that is mental concoction, hovering over the mental plane. Philosophy is here. Kṛṣṇa says, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam: (BG 13.9) "Keep always in your front that there is death, there is birth, and try to save yourself from this." This is philosophy. What is this hot air?

Bahulāśva: It is coming from the heating system of the university. They have a nuclear heating system.

Paramahaṁsa: Is that nuclear waste?

Bahulāśva: Yes. They have a reactor on the campus. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...they require so many scientist to get heat from the nuclear system, then who has created the sun to diffuse so much heat? How great scientist He is. They have no sense that who has created the sun's nuclear system, that heating the whole universe.

Morning Walk -- July 18, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: ...they require so many scientist to get heat from the nuclear system, then who has created the sun to diffuse so much heat? How great scientist He is. They have no sense that who has created the sun's nuclear system, that heating the whole universe.

Bahulāśva: They can't even measure how much heat is coming from the sun.

Jayatīrtha: They say that the sun is inefficient because in some places it's too hot and in some places it's too cold, so therefore they have to make the adjustment by making the air conditioners and the heaters in order to make up for the sun's inefficiency.

Prabhupāda: But who is getting this advantage?

Paramahaṁsa: Big businessmen.

Bahulāśva: Actually, the fact is that now the scientists are spending so much money on this research, but the research is only being used in their personal homes. The common people have never seen any of these great devices. This one devotee, Jayarama, his uncle is a big scientist. He has created this radio telescope. So I saw pictures of his personal home, and it must cost about $300,000. All these scientific devices he has. But the people never see those things. (break)

Paramahaṁsa: ...and for all the success of scientific advancement, they have not created any love for God or their fellow man.

Prabhupāda: That is the defect. They should scientifically explain what is Kṛṣṇa. Then their science is perfect. Idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā (SB 1.5.22), education, tapasya, sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddha-dattayoḥ, charity and gentleness, all good qualities. So kavibhiḥ nirūpito. Kavibhiḥ, big personalities they have decided, yad-uttamaśloka-guṇanuvarṇanam. If, by their knowledge they can establish vāsudevaḥ sarvam..., Kṛṣṇa is the origin, then their scientific knowledge is perfect. Avicyutaḥ arthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito. Kavibhiḥ means great learned scholars. They have decided like this, yad-uttamaśloka-guṇanuvarṇanam, instead of talking all nonsense, "This is this. This is this," if they can scientifically explain that "Kṛṣṇa is the original scientist, and His brain has done this like this, like this..." That is Bhāgavata, who is the original scientist, who is original philosopher, original—everything original. Anādir ādir govindaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Govinda is the origin of everything. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). Vāsudeva is the original founder. That is a fact. The origin is Kṛṣṇa, but they do not find it. Now, this sprinkling is being done, water and air. Now, who is the origin of air and water? You have combined together, utilizing as a spray, but who is the origin of air and water? You cannot manufacture air or water. You are taking advantage of it by mixing together, sprinkling, but where is the origin of water and air?

Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: Insur... So much! Everyone is being (indistinct). We do not decry, but we point out, "In this way our valuable time of life is being wasted." They say it is primitive life, but it is peaceful life. We want peaceful life and save time for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is not primitive. That is intelligent life.

Satsvarūpa: In order to evidence this, should we consider that we have to act as kṣatriyas or shall we just preach and try to get others...

Prabhupāda: No... Kṣatriyas, I have already explained who is brāhmaṇa and kṣatriya according to guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13), as you work, as you are fit for. If you are fit to become brāhmaṇa, become brāhmaṇa. If you are fit to become kṣatriya, become kṣatriya. If you are fit to become śūdra, do it. Three... Then... And a man who cannot become fit for any other purpose, he is śūdra. That's all. "Help. Help the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya and take your food and little pocket expense. That's all." Little pocket expenditure. But in our society we don't require, but even if it is required we can give.

Morning Walk -- September 27, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Indian man (7): Should we go back to the bullock cart age?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, certainly. Then you will be sukhī. (Hindi) This is the first instruction: dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). (Hindi) This is the first instruction. (Hindi) This is the first to be given up in order to understand spiritual knowledge. (Hindi) So how you can expect tranquillity and peacefulness if the society is conducted by go-khara? This is the defect. (Hindi) This is the rule, nature's law. And if it is a fact... It is a fact. You believe or not believe; that is a different thing. (Hindi) Professor Kotovsky... (break) "Swamiji, after death, everything is finished." He said like that. And he is a big professor of Indology. (Hindi) ...sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). He is a professor. (Hindi) Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam
kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā
(CC Adi 17.21)

(Hindi) You cannot do anything. You cannot be educated at home. You must go to the teacher. (Hindi) And they are being eulogized. (Hindi)

Kartikeya: Now their own president is not free from danger. Every day shooting is going on. (end)

Morning Walk -- October 6, 1975, Durban:
Prabhupāda: There are so many other things.

Harikeśa: They cut the thumbs of the weavers? Prabhupāda: Yes. Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They were making finer cloth by hand than the British were making by machines. So in order to discourage, they would cut off the thumb so they couldn't weave. Prabhupāda: So many things. And to make a show, the Lord Hasting was impeached in the Parliament. Here the black men, they are Africans. Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. In this country there's nineteen million Africans and about over five million Europeans, about one million Indian people, and about one million colored people. Prabhupāda: So these women, what they are carrying on the head? Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I don't know. What do they carry, Gokulendra prabhu? Gokulendra: They carry all sorts of things, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Sometimes they carry their supplies that they... Prabhupāda: They are local women or... Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. But they don't allow the Africans to live in the cities. They have to travel long distances, unless they are servants at some house. For the Africans to live in the cities, they have passes. They have to have a pass. Prabhupāda: Ācchā. Black men. The Indians, they cannot? They can? Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, Indians don't need pass. The Indians, however, they were only allowed to live where they were born. They aren't allowed to move around. But this year they finished that law. Now the Indians can live anywhere in South Africa in Indian areas. They can move around to different cities. Before this year they weren't allowed to do it. Prabhupāda: So post... (break) ...service is not good? Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, it is fairly good.

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: (aside:) You don't.

Indian man (4): Another question is...

Indian man (3): I want an answer, please. Are you suggesting that every person, whether he is Muslim or Christian or Buddhist or Jew or Parsi or anybody else for that matter, should accept the Hindu doctrine of transmigration or reincarnation of soul in order that he may be called really a religious person or a scientific person?

Prabhupāda: Well, the difficulty is that we are talking of transmigration of the soul on scientific basis. But you are trying to give it a Hindu color. Why? To become... I have already explained. To become old man is equally applicable to the Hindus, Muslim, Christian. So why you say it is Hindu belief? It is not Hindu belief. It is a science. Why you are bringing "Hindu, Muslim, Christian"? I do not know why.

Indian man (4): The real question between this statement of Mr. Professor and you is that what is religion and what is science. Unless the nature of science and religion defined...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Science is applicable to everyone.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Tea?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Nobody would drink tea, no family. We have seen it. And for drinking, for drinking tea, drinking wine, regular propaganda was done. There was a tea taxes committee. Men these foreigners, they began to grow tea in India in the beginning for exporting to Europe and America… Later on, they began to pay some tax to the government. That was known as "tea taxes committee." The tea taxes committee, in order to popularize drinking tea, they used to hold stall, just like here in park and public places, and they would prepare very tasty tea and distribute free.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Free.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And advertise, "If you drink tea, then you will not feel very much hungry. Your health will be improved," and so on, so on. In this way they distribute pamphlet and giving free. Just like we distribute prasādam, they used to distribute very tasteful tea, and people liked it: "Oh, it is very nice." Then they began to drink. Vigorous propaganda. And culturally, in our school days they wrote… One Mr. N. Ghosh, he, bribed by the Britishers, he wrote one book, England's Work in India. So all the, just like Sati rites…

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sati rite.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Prabhupāda: You require so many eggs.

Harikeśa: “Well, the chickens are already doing that. We’re doing things that nature can’t do.”

Prabhupāda: No, no, our point is that you want to create life, so first of all begin this. Create chicken, and then we shall think of other important living beings. Point is that in order to produce life you have to take another life, assistance. You cannot… As you say, that life is made of matter, that is not the fact. Life is made of life. So you are taking the eggs from another life. And in the egg there is life. That you do not know. Sometimes they take it that egg is vegetable. No. What is that?

Harikeśa: Well, the egg is not fertilized, so it's not yet a chicken. It's just an egg.

Prabhupāda: So that's all right. It is lump of matter. So you take a lump of matter and fertilize a life.

Harikeśa: Well, I’m convinced. There's nothing… (laughing) … nothing left to say.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The argument is that the scientists are claiming they can do so many big things, but they can’t even manufacture one egg.

Prabhupāda: That's it. And these rascals are talking very big, big words. That has to be stopped, that “Don’t talk nonsense and bluff people and take high salary, simply cheating. Don’t cheat any more. Admit that you cannot do anything. You simply bluff. That's all.” That is to be done.

Morning Walk -- October 20, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: That I have repeatedly said. Therefore, because they are thinking like that, therefore they are rascals. That is the proof. There is no happiness; still, he is thinking, "I am happy." That is the proof that he's a rascal. (break)

Harikeśa: Well, we can admit that we're not happy all the time, but what is the meaning of happiness without distress? If there's no distress, how can I be happy?

Prabhupāda: So that is material knowledge. In order to taste happiness, you have to suffer. That is material happiness. And happiness, pure, is spiritual happiness. Here, in order to enjoy happiness, you have to suffer; then you can taste. Therefore that is not real happiness. (break)

Harikeśa: A sandtrap. This is where the ball goes in and it's very difficult to hit it out of there.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Harikeśa: So you're not supposed to hit it in there.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Morning Walk -- October 20, 1975, Johannesburg:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes they hit a golf ball, Śrīla Prabhupāda, two hundred yards, and it goes into the hole.

Prabhupāda: The same thing. In order to feel the happiness of playing, he has to go in this way. It is unhappiness.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Such standard of religion the Western countries are not used to.

Prabhupāda: Where is religion in Western countries? There is no religion. All bogus thing. Religion means to surrender to God. Then where is God, and whom to surrender? They surrender to senses, that's all. So unless there is God, what is the meaning of religion? That is not religion. They have created something, civilized human society. There must be some religion. Just like aristocracy means he must have a good dog, that's all. There is no religion in the world except Kṛṣṇa consciousness. All bogus.

Morning Walk -- November 1, 1975, Nairobi:

Harikeśa: But we don't know, so we're taking the known and speculating on that...

Prabhupāda: You do not know; therefore you have to learn. If you want to remain rascal, fool, and still you want to know, that is not possible. You have to know from the real source. Then you'll know. But if you keep yourself in the rascal platform, then how you will know? Just like you have to go to a school to learn things. So how you can learn at home? Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). You have to go in order to understand that science. So how do you argue, keeping yourself in darkness? In darkness you cannot see anything. "Oh, I do not see anything; therefore there is nothing." Is that very good reason? You are blind, you cannot see the darkness. That is another thing. But things are there. You make your eyes operated and manifest your vision. Then you'll see. Therefore, ajñāna-timirāndhasya jñānāñjana-śalākayā cakṣur-unmīlitaṁ yena tasmai śrī-gurave namaḥ. Everyone is blind, in darkness. He cannot see anything. So one who opens the eyes, jñānāñjana-śalākayā, by the torch of knowledge, he is guru. This is description of guru. If you are blind and have a blind guru, that is no use. Guru means who is not blind. I may be blind. Then that will be effective. This is no reason, "I cannot see." What you are? You can see? You cannot see even the president, and you want to see God without being qualified? This is laymans', rascal's reason, "I cannot see. I do not see." What you are? What you can see? You do not first of all evaluate what is your position, and you want to see something. The formula is there. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). One who has developed love of God is always seeing God. So where is that qualification? You are not lover of God, you are lover of dog, so how you can see God? You can see dog. That's all. Go on seeing dog perpetually. And at the time of death see the dog and become a dog. That's all.

Morning Walk -- November 1, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: Nobody is fit. The doctors also become sick as soon as there is violation. The violation is the cause of sickness, so either he may be doctor or no doctor, that does not matter. If you violate, you'll be sick. That is nature's law. Nature's law.

Devotee (1): Speaking of chance, Śrīla Prabhupāda, it was mentioned in the scriptures that, in The Nectar of Devotion, that in order to be involved in devotional service and execute devotional service in this life, we had to have some devotional service last life. So therefore, were you here last life too, to give us this devotional service?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Brahmānanda: He's asking that in The Nectar of Devotion it is stated that for one to engage in devotional service means that in his previous life he had some connection with devotional service. So he's...

Prabhupāda: So where is the chance? It is the cause and effect. If previous life you had some activities and the result is there. So where is chance?

Harikeśa: So that's survival of the fittest. Because he could take to devotional service, he is surviving on in devotional service.

Prabhupāda: Surviving... So he is surviving, but the cause and effect is going on.

Morning Walk -- November 14, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then you cannot see the stars. Can you see the stars now?

Indian man (7): No.

Prabhupāda: Then can you say there is no star? Then? That means what you cannot see, that is not final. Therefore our Vedic instruction is śāstra cakṣusāt: You should see through the śastra, not you these useless eyes. These are useless. Tad-vijñānārtham sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In order to know perfectly, one should go to the guru. And Bhagavad-gītā has said,

tad viddhi praṇipātena
paripraśnena sevayā
upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ
jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ
(BG 4.34)

"One who has seen, go there and learn it." That is the injunction. Don't try to see yourself. That is foolishness. This very word is used, tattva-darśinaḥ, "one who has seen." You have to go there and see through his eyes, through his instruction. That is real seeing.

Devotee (5): They're paying you respects, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hm? Oh. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

Morning Walk -- November 15, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Which one?

Saurabha: The old house.

Prabhupāda: Oh, old house.

Saurabha: Otherwise they won't allow us to build a temple so close to that place. The same problem is with those hutment. In order to build the building they have be moved or we have to promise them that within a certain time we will break them down.

Girirāja: If we keep the garden around the back of the temple and the front. Remember we discussed that?

Saurabha: Yes. We have to... But as long as that house is there, we can't do that. The old house is there too.

Girirāja: We've already agreed to remove the old house.

Saurabha: Yes, but one has to have the open area as garden in order to do that.

Girirāja: So in the layout there's room.

Saurabha: Yes, but it's not there yet. You either have to break down the old house or the hutment. But it may be now, because the situation is more favorable, that they allow, that they believe us. We can try it. We will make a design for the whole building.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Including that... And request them to come to our, one of the top floor. And as soon as the building is... They'll... In this way. (break)

Saurabha: ...plan and we make everything to submit to the municipality and then we will hear from them what is required and we will try to do that, whatever they want.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Therefore, spirit soul is described as superior energy. He desires and he manipulates the matter. Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5).

Harikeśa: It's very logical, step by step by step by step. Actually when it's seen from the point of view of the desire of the living entity, it makes perfect sense because he's got these senses and the sound, and then in order to hear, there has to be a vehicle for the sound, and then there has to be an instrument. And then in order to touch there has to be the vehicle and the...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: So therefore, from that point of view, it's very logical.

Prabhupāda: This is the point, you have to...

Harikeśa: Trying to do it the other way is impossible. From the...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Their food is there, he is simply searching out, that's all.

Harikeśa: So if we economically develop, we don't even have to search out...

Prabhupāda: No, no, you are opening factories. They are not opening factories. Nature's food is already there. And "Be satisfied, take this." That's all. That much endeavour is required. That is material world.

Harikeśa: So in other words he has to look for food, but man has to make a factory in order to look for food...

Prabhupāda: No, he hasn't got to make factory. He has got also food but he... If he does, he is claiming to be more civilized. He has complicated his activities by opening factories. That's all. He has got also food. Let everyone remain in nature's... You take fruit from the trees and drink milk, you are also sufficient. You don't require to cook even. There are fruits. Formerly all the sages they were taking fruits from the trees, and milk from the cows. That's all. They did not even produce food. Like agriculture. No. Whatever nature is supplying, that's all. But you are killing the cows, eating the meat, and producing no food and and making things, complicated. This is your civilization.

Room Conversation -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: "Why he is not silent?" Kṛṣṇa is not silent. Kṛṣṇa is speaking. Why you should be silent when I challenge you like this. He said, he could not answer. This is going on. So many things they are doing, if they are challenged, they cannot answer. You were present? I told him, "Why silent? Kṛṣṇa is not silent. He says continually, Bhagavān uvāca; page after page, and he's saying "Why he should silent?" He gave me the information that Brahman was silent and anyone who would go to him, he would remain silent and the message would be transferred.

Bhāgavata: Rajneesh says the same thing. He says that Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna did not speak, Kṛṣṇa simply looked at Arjuna and Arjuna understood. But in order for Dhṛtarāṣṭra to understand, because he was blind, Sañjaya is speaking and he is explaining everything and Vyāsa has written down what Sañjaya has explained. This is, that is what Rajneesh says like that. So why does Sañjaya say Bhagavān uvāca?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Sañjaya heard, then he said?

Bhāgavata: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So, then Kṛṣṇa is speaking, otherwise how he heard? Hm? This nonsense is going on. Everywhere, it is very difficult position. So many rascals. And we have to push on our movement through so many obstacles, but still we are going on, that is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. Otherwise we are simply meeting with obstacles. What can be done? We have to go, forward. I, I met in... same idea! Impersonalism, bogus thought and no clear idea.

Morning Walk -- December 23, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hm? What is that?

Harikeśa: He said that because Lord Śiva was, ah, excuse me, Rāvaṇa was a devotee of Lord Śiva, that in order that Lord Rāmacandra could kill Rāvaṇa, He worshiped Śiva.

Kīrtanānanda: He wanted to take permission of him, so they say. Rāma wanted to take permission from Śiva...

Prabhupāda: So Śiva is so rascal that he gave permission? That means they are trying to prove Śiva is a rascal. (devotees laugh) Because he gave permission to kill his devotee. Then what is the use of his, of one becoming Śiva's devotee? If such a rascal that one can take his permission to kill his devotee, so what is the use of becoming a devotee of such a rascal? Huh?

Harikeśa: He protected Bāṇāsura.

Prabhupāda: Huh? What is that? That means that proving that Śiva is a rascal. He gave permission to kill his devotee. Then what is the use? Then nobody should become Śiva's devotee. That is the conclusion. Because he gives permission to somebody else to kill his devotee. They are trying to prove Lord Śiva is a rascal. What do you think? Huh? If I want your permission, please give me your permission, I shall kill your son, and if you say, "Yes, I give my permission," then are you not a rascal? By this example they are making Lord Śiva a rascal, that he has no common sense even.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1975, Sandau:

Prabhupāda: Last prentice. (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (Hindi)

Haṁsadūta: George is also again smoking and drinking.

Prabhupāda: Acchā?

Haṁsadūta: Because he always has to keep that kind of company in order to produce his records.

Prabhupāda: No, no, he is very nice boy. I have studied. Very good boy, George. He showed me in Bombay. He came to see me in Bombay.

Haṁsadūta: Just recently?

Prabhupāda: No, last year.

Haṁsadūta: Two years ago.

Prabhupāda: He is keeping Jagannātha within his beadbag and chanting.

Haṁsadūta: Just before I came to India, Mukunda met him for about two hours. He said he was very friendly, and he would arrange a ninety-nine-year lease for us, give us the right to the Bhaktivedanta Manor.

Prabhupāda: No, he's our well-wisher, good boy. What is the time now?

Devotee (1): A quarter to eight.

Devotee (2): Sun shines very late, the sun rises.

Prabhupāda: Because it is in the west. The sun rises from the east, so from Calcutta to here there must be one hour difference. (end)

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Prabhupāda: Just like Kṛṣṇa does not say, "Make an experiment." He says the fact: asmin dehe dehinaḥ. "The proprietor of the body is within this body." There is no question of experimenting.

Harikeśa: But that's our thesis.

Prabhupāda: Not.... I say "thesis." Kṛṣṇa do.... Kṛṣṇa says the fact.

Harikeśa: But I mean in order to...

Prabhupāda: But if you don't accept Kṛṣṇa's...

Harikeśa: Yeah, they don't accept. So that, that's our thesis.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then, then take it as thesis.

Harikeśa: Thesis. So therefore it's an experiment.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not experiment. It is to be subjected to discussion. That is not experiment. Because the fact is there. Now whether it is fact, that you have to discuss.

Page Title:In order to... (Conversations 1967 - 1975)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:26 of Mar, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=143, Let=0
No. of Quotes:143