Impersonalist (Conversations 1975 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"impersonalist" |"impersonalist's" |"impersonalistic" |"impersonalists" |"impersonality"

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Madhudviṣa: Someone like the Kumaras... Were the Kumāras, before they became attracted to Viṣṇu, were they Māyāvādīs?

Prabhupāda: Not Māyāvādīs.

Trivikrama: Impersonalists.

Prabhupāda: Impersonalists.

Madhudviṣa: What is the difference between an impersonalist and a Māyāvādī?

Prabhupāda: Very little difference, but still, there is difference.

Trivikrama: Māyāvādīs are offenders.

Prabhupāda: Māyāvādīs means they are speaking that "Everything is māyā; Kṛṣṇa is also māyā." And impersonalist means they are thinking that "To merge into the Brahman effulgence is better than to keep our personal identity."

Morning Walk -- (World War III) -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: (laughing) Body is combination of atoms. How he gets out of the atom. Body is nothing but combination of many atoms. Everything material is combination of many atoms. That's all.

Pañcadraviḍa: The jīvas inside the atom, are they like impersonalists who are in the Brahman?

Prabhupāda: That you consider. He has not developed his consciousness. Practically, it is like dead.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, if there was a war, a large-scale war, I think that our farming projects...

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think that the various farm projects that we have would be very good because, as you said, the cities would be bombed, but the farms would not be disturbed.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The farm project... Even some hundreds of years, it was so nice. Even there was war, they would not attack the farmers. Rather, they would ask, "Where the other party has gone?" So they will say: "Oh, we have seen some soldiers going this way." That's all. They were not affected. That was the principle. Farmers were not attacked, just like at the present moment, the law is the civilians are not attacked. The military target is attacked. That is the law. But they do all nonsense. Even at the present moment civilians are not attacked. Just like Kurukṣetra Battle. It was taken far away from the civilian inhabitation.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: If you alone live in this field eternally, that is not bliss. That is punishment. You see? So that is nature. We want ānanda, blissfulness. Therefore those who are... Arūhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam (SB 10.2.32). After severe austerities they rise up to the Brahmān effulgence, but on account of his original nature of ānanda, he cannot remain there. He again falls down. "Oh, it was better, family life. What is this nonsense? Eternally sit up in this field? What is this? Let me go to the town and work there." You see? That is your nature. Therefore these impersonalists who want to merge, they can merge, but there they cannot remain. They will again come. These so-called sannyāsīs, they give up everything—brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā—Vivekananda or this Karpatri. Again they come to these material activities. Somebody takes social work, somebody takes political work. But if it is mithyā, if it is false, why...? (break) But they have... (break) Again come, open hospital, do political work. They cannot stick up. That is not possible.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: So they are not saved from the greatest danger of falling down...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Evening Discussion -- May 6, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: There is no question about oṁkāra there. Discuss on the verse. But oṁkāra is also Kṛṣṇa. Praṇavaḥ sarva vedeṣu. Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya praṇavaḥ sarva vedeṣu (BG 7.8). Kṛṣṇa says, "I am praṇavaḥ." So oṁkāra is not different than Kṛṣṇa. But oṁkāra is pronounced by the impersonalists. That is the difference. Kṛṣṇa, when He says that "I am praṇavaḥ, I am oṁkāra," then where is the objection? They foolishly say that oṁkāra is better than Kṛṣṇa. There is no need of chanting "Kṛṣṇa." That is not good. But so far we are concerned, we say there is no difference between oṁkāra and Kṛṣṇa. Other systems, Christianism or Buddhism or Mohamedanism, they have got one book, Koran, Bible, or... What is the Buddhist scripture? One book. And we have got so many, dealing with the same subject matter. So which is better? Higher mathematics, or two plus two? They should understand the gravity of this movement, my presentation of books. They haven't got so many books. Two thousand years past, the Christian religion has got only one book, Bible. And their only pastime of Christ is crucifixion. There is the cross. Therefore it has become hackneyed. People are no more interested. Neither they can explain very nicely. Neither they follow strictly whatever little information they have.

Room Conversation with Ganesa dasa's Mother and Sister -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Gaṇeśa: "Purport. The Lord's descent from His transcendental abode is already explained in the sixth verse. One who can understand the truth of the appearance of the Personality of Godhead is already liberated from material bondage, and therefore he returns to the kingdom of God immediately after quitting this present material body. Such liberation of the living entity from material bondage is not at all easy. The impersonalists and the yogis attain liberation only after much trouble and many, many births. Even then, the liberation they achieve—merging into the impersonal brahma-jyotir of the Lord—is only partial, and there is the risk of returning again to this material world. But the devotee, simply by understanding the transcendental nature of the body and activities of the Lord, attains the abode of the Lord after ending this body and does not run the risk of returning again to this material world. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is stated that the Lord has many, many forms and incarnations: advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam (Bs. 5.33).

Although there are many transcendental forms of the Lord, they are still one and the same Supreme Personality of Godhead. One has to understand this fact with conviction, although it is incomprehensible to mundane scholars and empiric philosophers. As stated in the Vedas: eko devo nitya-līlānurakto bhakta-vyāpī hṛdy antarātmā. 'The one Supreme Personality of Godhead is eternally engaged in many, many transcendental forms in relationships with His unalloyed devotees.' This Vedic version is confirmed in this verse of the Gītā personally by the Lord. He who accepts this truth on the strength of the authority of the Vedas and of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and who does not waste time in philosophical speculations attains the highest perfectional stage of liberation. Simply by accepting this truth on faith, one can, without a doubt, attain liberation. The Vedic version, 'tat tvam asi,' is actually applied in this case. Anyone who understands Lord Kṛṣṇa to be the Supreme, or who says unto the Lord, 'You are the Supreme Brahman, the Personality of Godhead,' is certainly liberated instantly, and consequently his entrance into the transcendental association of the Lord is guaranteed.

In other words, such a faithful devotee of the Lord attains perfection, and this is confirmed by the following Vedic assertion: tam eva viditvāti mṛtyum eti nānyaḥ panthā vidyate 'yanāya. One can attain the perfect stage of liberation from birth and death simply by knowing the Lord, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There is no alternative because anyone who does not understand Lord Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead is surely in the mode of ignorance. Consequently he will not attain salvation, simply, so to speak, by licking the outer surface of the bottle of honey, or by interpreting the Bhagavad-gītā according to mundane scholarship. Such empiric philosophers may assume very important roles in the material world, but they are not necessarily eligible for liberation. Such puffed up mundane scholars have to wait for the causeless mercy of the devotee of the Lord. One should therefore cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness with faith and knowledge, and in this way attain perfection."

Prabhupāda: So if you distribute this knowledge, that will be real social work. And if you give some help, temporary, but he remains subjected to the rules of birth, death, and old age, that is temporary.

Sister: If you're devoted enough can you gain release from birth, death, and old age completely in one life?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is explained here.

Sister: Yeah, within one material life? You necessarily don't have to return?

Prabhupāda: No.

Morning Walk -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Combination.

Madhudviṣa: Combination. Of something else besides...?

Prabhupāda: Impersonalists, they do not accept personal feature. Means they fall down again.

Madhudviṣa: That means there must be a lot of impersonalists.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Madhudviṣa: It seems there would be a lot of impersonalists.

Prabhupāda: No, more than them, there are personalists. They are in Vaikuṇṭhaloka.

Devotee 3: (break) ...in the material world.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee 3: Is there any real happiness?

Prabhupāda: That is material world, no happiness.

Devotee 4: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what is the advantage of going to India, to Vṛndāvana?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee 4: What is the advantage of going...

Prabhupāda: To get impetus to go back to home, back to Godhead. To come to Australia we get impetus to go to hell. (laughter) (break) Hell means anywhere where material happiness is given more importance. Mahat-sevāṁ dvā r a m āhur vimuktes tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi... In the western countries and..., they are simply busy in sense gratification. So that is the way of hell.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: They were satisfied, "Yes, we shall worship you." (break)

Siddha-svarūpa: The so-called more advanced ones, the teachers, the leaders, the monks, they have a more difficult time because they are, have actually further studied the impersonalist philosophies, so they are more contaminated, whereas the congregation in general, they just, they don't take very seriously the philosophy. They don't get too deeply into it, I don't think. They just like to go to the temple and offer some incense to Lord Buddha and... (break) ...Govinda Restaurant, hungry... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...chanting, dancing. So this will rectify his philosophy. Chanting is so strong, it will send all philosophy to hell. (laughter) Vijāyate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. (break) You will come out triumphant of all others. (break) ...that is happening. What we are doing? We are not playing any magic. How this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is increasing?

Devotee: Yesterday I read in the newspaper that Indira Gandhi has been asked to step down from the prime ministership.

Prabhupāda: I heard it. Where is that paper?

Siddha-svarūpa: Yeah, so this morning you get a paper, okay?

Devotee: I'll try to get a paper. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...body comes in her place he will be another.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Vaiṣṇava and non-Vaiṣṇava.

Prof. Hopkins: Vaiṣṇava and non-Vaiṣṇava. So it's not a question of sectarian differences within Vaiṣṇavism. (break) And you would see the worshipers of Śiva as impersonalists?

Prabhupāda: Impersonalists.

Prof. Hopkins: You would see... All of them.

Prabhupāda: The Śaivites, the Śaṅkarācārya.

Prof. Hopkins: Śaṅkarācārya, I know he is.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Śaṅkarācārya's theory is the ultimate, the Absolute Truth is impersonal. And one can imagine a personal form for the benefit of the worshiper.

Prof. Hopkins: But there are some worshipers of Śiva who would be personalists.

Prabhupāda: No.

Prof. Hopkins: You would deny that.

Prabhupāda: They are all impersonalists. They are pañcopāsana. Pañcopāsana means the ultimate, Absolute Truth is impersonal and Śaṅkarācārya recommended that you cannot worship the impersonal, so you conceive a personal form. So that he recommended five: the sun-god, Lord Śiva, Durgā, and Gaṇeśa, and? What else? And Viṣṇu.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Basavana?

Prof. Hopkins: Lingayat. Lingayat teacher. The Śaivite, Śaivite...

Prabhupāda: He is impersonalist.

Prof. Hopkins: You would say impersonalist.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. They say Śivāham, "I am Śiva." They are impersonalist. If you are Śiva then why you worshiping Śiva? That is impersonalist.

Prof. Hopkins: So any position which would deny the difference between the devotee and God, you would see...

Prabhupāda: He is impersonalist.

Prof. Hopkins: Is impersonalist.

Prabhupāda: The impersonalist theory is that I am now devotee. As soon as I become perfect I become one."

Prof. Hopkins: Oh.

Prabhupāda: That is their theory. Then there is no more difference. In the preliminary stage, when I am not perfect, I am worshiping some imaginary form of God. But when I become perfect there is no need of worshiping, I become one with God. This is impersonal. Now, actually, the Supreme has no form so they recommend whichever form you like to worship you can select out of these five. But their destination is the same. So somebody likes "I worship Śiva," somebody says "I worship Gaṇeśa," somebody says, "I worship Durgā," and Sūrya, or somebody says, "I worship Viṣṇu." So this Vaiṣṇava is impersonalist. You'll find amongst smārta brāhmaṇas there are also some of them Vaiṣṇavas, but they are impersonalists.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prof. Hopkins: So you would... You would say that those, those smārtas say, and I know smārta brāhmaṇas who are worshipers of Viṣṇu. You would say they still are impersonalists in some ultimate sense because at some point they would deny...

Prabhupāda: No, it is very difficult to pick them out. Most of the so-called Vaiṣṇavas, they are impersonalists.

Prof. Hopkins: Some, I suspect, are more Vaiṣṇavas than they are smārtas.

Prabhupāda: So, satataṁ kīrtayanto mām?

Brahmānanda:

satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ

yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ

namasyantaś ca māṁ bhaktyā

nitya-yuktā upāsate

(BG 9.14)

"Always chanting My glories, endeavoring with great determination, bowing down before Me, these great souls perpetually worship Me with devotion."

Prabhupāda: Perpetually. It is not that I am worshiping now and when I am perfect I become one. That is impersonal.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: The word is used, nitya-yukta. Nitya-yukta means perpetually. If a devotee is to merge into the existence of the Lord then why this word is used, nitya-yukta. Upāsana. Not only nitya-yukta, upāsana. Upāsana means "you worship Me." As soon as the word is "he worships" that means the worshipable and the mode of worship and the worshiper must be there. That is indicated, nitya-yukta, perpetual. But the Māyāvādīs or these impersonalists, they think that it is temporary. I am devotee temporarily. As soon as I become perfect I become one.

Prof. Hopkins: So that you would see then, in terms of, in terms of some kind of theological structure, you would see that Puruṣottama as always...

Prabhupāda: Uttama, uttama means the best.

Prof. Hopkins: Always superior.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Unless He is eternally there, then how the devotee will eternally, nitya-yukta upāsana, whom to worship? Nitya-yukta upāsana. Unless Puruṣottama is everlasting Puruṣottama then where is the question of worship everlasting? So the Māyāvādīs, they do not understand.

Prof. Hopkins: Well, would you... Do you equate then the impersonalists and the Māyāvādīs? Are they the same?

Prabhupāda: Almost the same.

Prof. Hopkins: At some point I guess they would have to be almost.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Prof. Hopkins: At some point I suppose they would almost have to be because to be an impersonalist you would have to deny the ultimate reality of phenomenon, which would make you a Māyāvādī.

Prabhupāda: They accept this form of God as māyā. Therefore we call them Māyāvādī.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prof. Hopkins: So it's the mistake... The mistake of the impersonalist then is to identify the complete reality with Brahman, which is only one aspect of the complete reality.

Prabhupāda: Just like finger. Finger is one of the item of the whole body. You can't say, "Yes, the finger is my body," because the finger is not the whole body. Similarly, everything is part and parcel of the whole but that does not mean that everything is whole.

Prof. Hopkins: And these realities are in a hierarchy in the sense that Brahman, Paramātman...

Prabhupāda: Brahman is everything. Brahman is also māyā Brahman, (indistinct) is Brahman. Śabda idaṁ khalv brahman. Because it is the manifestation of Brahman. Brahman's energy. Just like here in this room. Daytime there is sun, but sun is ninety three miles away; ninety three millions miles. But where there is sunshine we can say, "Here is sun."

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Sannyāsa does not mean change of dress. Sannyāsa means everything for Kṛṣṇa. That is sannyāsa.

Prof. Hopkins: What is your view of Śrī Aurobindo? (loud laughter) Or should I have left well enough alone? He is not an impersonalist, he's not a Māyāvādī.

Prabhupāda: He says that above the Māyāvāda philosophy there is something else, super. That is bhakti. (indistinct) ...bhakti, but he could not understand because he did not take any education from realized person. He wanted to realize himself. That is his defect.

Prof. Hopkins: So one who... You would see his effort to transcend, I suppose you would call it...

Prabhupāda: That effort was for life after life. Then when his effort will be successful he will realize Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19).

Prof. Hopkins: So his problem was the effort to attempt to do this on his own without going through...

Prabhupāda: The guru.

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1975, San Francisco:

Bahulāśva: They have never done that successfully.

Prabhupāda: And even they are successful, what is credit? So many living entities are coming every minute, and if after thousand years, they can create one ant, so what is the credit? (laughter)

Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, now the impersonalists, they will accept that there's something in that body that's different than matter, but they won't admit that that's a person. They say that it's just some type of energy force, or they call it consciousness.

Prabhupāda: But we haven't got to hear from them. You take lesson from Kṛṣṇa.

Nalinī-kaṇṭha: Are they better situated than the person who doesn't accept it at all?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Nalinī-kaṇṭha: The impersonalists that denounce Kṛṣṇa, are they better than the person who is ignorant of eternity?

Prabhupāda: Who is he ignorant of?

Bahulāśva: The common man.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Are the impersonalists better than the gross materialists?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is Śaṅkara's philosophy. Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. That is his philosophy. Brahman means that spirit soul, that is fact. And this material external, that is false. A little advanced than the Buddha philosophy.

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1975, San Francisco:

Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, how is it that they describe the soul, the impersonalists?

Prabhupāda: Because they have no eyes to see. They say that "The body is finished. Now..." Gatākāśa potakāśa. They give the example, just like within the pot there is sky, and outside the pot there is sky and when the pot is broken, the within sky mixes with the outside sky.

Bahulāśva: So we say that within the pot, or the body, there is consciousness, and that remains eternally individual.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is said by Kṛṣṇa. It is not our imagination.

Bahulāśva: So the eternal characteristic of the self, then, is that he is pure consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Pure consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He knows that "I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa." That is pure consciousness.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Ah. Śraddhāvān, That is required. If he has no faith, then he remains in darkness.

Devotee (6): If we save the common people by giving them prasādam, how can we save the impersonalists?

Prabhupāda: That will come later on. (break) ...ists will not come. They will never come because they do not believe in the personal feature of God. Unless very hungry, he will not come because he does not believe in prasāda, does not believe in God.

Bahulāśva: Just like yesterday those impersonalists wouldn't come on the stage. When they saw your opulent vyāsāsana and so many devotees offering your āratik, they realized if they came to the stage, they would have to sit at your feet. Therefore they wouldn't come. This one Swami Satchitananda... I have a friend who's a member of his movement. So this yogi told him that if you want to know how to receive the spiritual master you should go watch the Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees when they greet their guru at the airport... Then you will learn what is the proper way to...

Prabhupāda: Who says?

Bahulāśva: Swami Satchitananda told him that. (laughter)

Yadubara: He cannot give instruction, so he has to...

Prabhupāda: No, he was rejected. But then appealing, then he was reinstated.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: No, he was rejected. But then appealing, then he was reinstated.

Bahulāśva: They want the respect, but they cannot command the respect.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they... He was found implicated with some woman.

Bahulāśva: You explain, Prabhupāda, that the impersonalists have to again fall down to material activities.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bahulāśva: So this Satchitananda, before he became yogi, he was an engineer. So in his spare time—I was asking this boy, "What does he do? What is his life like?" I was wondering what he lived like. So he goes to bed at 8:00 at night, and no one sees him until 8:00 in the morning. So I asked, "Was he asleep?" So he said no, that he's in some trance. And then during the day he works on cars. He collects old automobiles, old classical cars, and he takes them apart and puts them together for a hobby.

Prabhupāda: He cannot give up his old habit.

Morning Walk -- August 7, 1975, Toronto:

Indian Man (2): In Hardwar I have been recently, and I met one of my uncle's wife. My uncle's father was a very big mahanta. He was having quite in a big numbers, maybe in lakhs or you can say million, half million to million disciples. And what he was using in whole life, the disciple's money, for his own pleasure or his wife and children's. And at the end of it he took his sannyāsa. Only just few years after that, he died. And I found there in a lot of mahantas, they have a temples, they are using there lot of jewels, gold, and money, and they have a business, like that. And thousand of educated people visit, and they believe that this is all they are doing, show off, and there is no God. This is bewildering everybody's mind. Is there any... we have some system that we can conquer those people by means to... Those young generation of their children, they really looking for the truth. I met one mahanta, his son. He is very educated boy. He met impersonalist leader, and he misguided, and they are leading their life just like a, you can say, I don't want to use bad word, like pigs. They are eating and sleeping and mating, same as there are other people doing.

Prabhupāda: Well, this is want of knowledge, jñānam.

vāsudeve bhagavati

bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ

janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ

jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam

(SB 1.2.7)

If one is engaged in the devotional service of Vasudeva, then he immediately becomes vairāgī—no attachment for material things—and knowledge. But most of these rascals, they are nondevotees. The so-called mahanta, he is not mahanta-mohāndha: "great blind." So that is the difficulty. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to bring everyone to the stage of devotional service to Vāsudeva. Then it will be all right. Other platform will never be successful. Simply show. It is not fact. (break) ...also take it very easily that "I haven't got to do anything. My Guru Mahārāja is there. He will do everything. I can do whatever I like." The Christians are doing like that, that "Jesus Christ will suffer. We indulge in sinful activities. That's all." This is their policy. It is perhaps in our movement only that each and every individual is being trained up. Others they do not do that. "I have made a guru; then my business is finished. Now I can do whatever I like."

Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:

Pṛthu-putra: I read in one of your books so many names about different groups of these Māyāvādī philosophers. Are they still existing today and active?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Anyone who thinks godlessness, he is Māyāvādī, that's all. Anyone. All these impersonalists, they are all Māyāvādīs. And mostly they are now impersonalists.

Dhṛṣṭaketu: So although we can't see it with our material eyes, their position is very precarious.

Prabhupāda: We have no eyes to see. We see through Kṛṣṇa. As Kṛṣṇa sees, we see. This is Kṛṣṇa conscious. We are not perfect. Our position is that we are not perfect. But we are perfect so long we follow Kṛṣṇa, that's all. Just like I am blind man. I am not perfect. But if you have got eyes, if you take me I follow you. Then I am perfect. Kṛṣṇa assures that "You surrender to Me and I will make you free from all dangers," and we accept Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Our method is very easy. The child is walking, unable to walk, falling down. The parents say, father says, "My dear child, just catch my hand." Then he's safe. These Māyāvādīs, they go against the verdict of God. God says that "The living entities are My part and parcel," and they say, "I am God." So that is their foolishness. Part and parcel... Kṛṣṇa says, mamaivaṁso jīva-bhutaḥ (BG 15.7). Otherwise why God says, "Surrender unto Me," if you are equal with Him? Why God is asking, "Surrender unto Me"? You are not equal. You are rascal. You are claiming that "I am equal." Otherwise there is no question of surrender. "You surrender unto Me." And this knowledge of surrender comes, Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām: "This rascal is always thinking 'I am God, God, God.' This rascaldom is finished after many, many births, this ignorance." Then he surrenders.

Morning Walk -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: So why so many desires? Because one desire is not complete, therefore you desire next. Therefore the process of desiring is defective, and our process is to purify the desires, not to remain in the imperfect platform of desiring, but whatever desire you have got, just purify it. Then it will be satisfied. So desire produced by bodily concept of life will never be satisfied. Therefore some of them are trying to become desireless, the impersonalists. Nirvāṇa.

Brahmānanda: That is also impossible.

Prabhupāda: That is not possible.

Indian man 3: Still there is a desire to become desireless. (break) ...nice example for Mr. Seller, a murghee(?). He thinks the rains are getting under and then cutting his slack.

Prabhupāda: Expensive. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That was one of those men over there. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: One of the men over there made that sound, Prabhupāda.

Cyavana: They just came out of that dancing club.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Morning Walk -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Devotee 2: In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you mentioned that the trees, they also can see, (in a) purport. So I was wondering, do all the various species of life, are they fully equipped in some fashion or another with all the various senses?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Living being means possessing all the senses.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Absolute is sentient thou hast proved, impersonality calamity thou hast moved." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...tree in Hare Krishna Land, they are so beautiful, heḥ? And what is this?

Devotee 2: These are very short. (laughter)

Cyavana: They are also torn by the cyclone. The cyclone has pulled up all the big ones.

Indian man 3: These are different in Durban.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They are not as fortunate.

Prabhupāda: Better place than this?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Very nice weather there. The people very much like us there too, Prabhupāda. Big crowds. Like us. (break)

Cyavana: ...bassa is nicer, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Mombassa.

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There's a way to go down to the right over here, to walk.

Prabhupāda: No, we can walk on this. This is nice.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This is okay?

Prabhupāda: This is open. We can walk. (break) Nirākāra, impersonalist, "God is formless"—that is another way of denying God, gentlemanly way of denying God. "Yes, there is God, but He has no head." (chuckles) What kind of God? "He has no head. He has no tail, He has no leg, He has... He cannot see. He cannot eat." Then what He is? This is another way of denying God. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...reasonable to put forward the argument that if man can do all of these things, then God must be able to do at least those things plus more.

Prabhupāda: No. God has no head. Then what can he do?

Devotee (2): I asked one lady, she said, "God wants to test your faith that... Ultimately He has no form, but He wants to test your faith to see if you..."

Prabhupāda: No, how He'll test? He has no head. How He'll test? Unless one has got head, how he can act with brain? Where you get this idea that one has no head, still he has got brain? Where you get this idea? Hm? The brain substance is within the head. This is our experience. So where do you get this idea that He has no head and still He has got brain? Hm? What is the answer?

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Prabhupāda: Praṇavaḥ. Praṇavaḥ sarva-vedeṣu. It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, raso ’ham apsu kaunteya prabhāsmi śaśi sūryayoḥ, praṇavaḥ sarva-vedeṣu. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Indian man (2): Swastika.

Prabhupāda: Swastika is also there, Vedic mark. Especially for the impersonalists. But we take direct, beautiful Kṛṣṇa, and worship Him. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: When did civilization begin? Well, the first men, they were uncivilized. Then, by little bit of intelligence they developed different types of tools and weapons. When, they have no date, though.

Prabhupāda: Therefore his civilization—so much, that's all. His standard of civilization, this much. (break) … no tree, even a small tree is considered big tree. (break) Man came from ape, so why man is not coming now from ape? Hm?

Harikeśa: It only happened once, and that was enough to start the whole thing.

Prabhupāda: Only once.

Morning Walk -- November 4, 1975, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No. She is an arya, so... But she believes in God, but she is not surrendered.

Prabhupāda: arya-samājīs, do they believe in God? I don't think.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They are impersonalists.

Indian man (1): (Hindi) (break)

Prabhupāda: Parsi, Hindu, Muslim, they will take anyone, provided he teaches you how to love God. Otherwise useless. If you don't get the knowledge how to love God, then it is useless waste of time. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Every time I would say Hare Kṛṣṇa, some of them were lying and have distributed by sticks. (break) ...it is stated that he was seeing everything material as nonsense, avastuvāt. Avastu means no substance. Vastu means substance. And he was surprised how a man can become without Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because he was a child, five years old, he was surprised that "How these people, my father and others, they are without Kṛṣṇa consciousness?"

Morning Walk -- November 20, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Jews?

Dr. Patel: Really, it is God's choicest race. (laughter) They have produced wonderful people right from Christ up to Professor Einstein, very bold people, very bold indeed. They are truthful to their convictions. They would die for their convictions but they will not, I mean, budge an inch.

Brahmānanda: But they're impersonalists.

Dr. Patel: Very brave. Very brave race.

Brahmānanda: They are impersonalists.

Dr. Patel: Today still, those people really very brave. Very brave. It is the choicest race from God. It's a fact.

Prabhupāda: Brahmānanda is very much pleased. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: I don't know who are they, but that is a fact. When you look back to the history, it's the really choicest race.

Morning Walk -- November 20, 1975, Bombay:

Brahmānanda: But they are impersonalists.

Dr. Patel: Impersonalist or personalist is immaterial. (laughter) I mean I talk of boldness, very bold people. Truthful to their conviction. Truthful to their conviction, sir.

Prabhupāda: They are so bold that, Shylock?

Brahmānanda: Yeah, yeah, the flesh.

Dr. Patel: There are Shylocks everywhere. One Shylock does not mean a bad race. And that Shylock is the creation of that poet.

Prabhupāda: No, the... In Europe the Jews are treated like that.

Dr. Patel: Are there not Shylocks in...

Prabhupāda: And they are greatest scientist.

Dr. Patel: All the Marwaris, who are they? They are Shylocks. And they give you lot of money and you make them sit first before us, you know.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- December 3, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Śūnyavādī. Śūnyavādī. That is śūnyavādī. Nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādī. Śūnyavādī, they say, "There is no God, and there is nothing, fact. Everything is combination of some illusory things." This is śūnyavādī. And the Māyāvādī, they say, "Yes, there is God, but He has no form." Therefore we have to kill both of them. Nirviśeṣa-śūnyavād-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe. The whole Western world are filled up with these śūnyavādi and impersonalists. India is also nowadays, but there are, still there are devotees in the ācārya-sampradāya. They are fighting against śunyavāda and nirviśeṣa.

Harikeśa: In South India I think a lot of the Rāmānuja followers are.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Akṣayānanda: If everything was void, then there would be no hope for living. So might as well die.

Prabhupāda: No. By combination, permutation, you create, and if you don't want it, then avoid this combination. (break) Even in four o'clock time, visiting, if he comes at four o'clock, you let him come in. (break) ...Gurukula we require teachers for teaching the small children. So our, these girls, they cannot take this charge of teaching?

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Similarly, the Pāṇḍavas and a few others knew that He was the Supreme, but not everyone. He was not revealed to the nondevotees and the common men. Therefore in the Gītā Kṛṣṇa says that but for His pure devotees, all men consider Him to be like themselves. He was manifest only to His devotees as the reservoir of all pleasure. But to others, to unintelligent nondevotees, He was covered by His eternal potency. In the prayers of Kunti in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (1.8.18), it is said that the Lord is covered by the curtain of yogamāyā, and thus ordinary people cannot understand Him. Kuntī prays: 'Oh my Lord, You are the maintainer of the entire universe, and devotional service to You is the highest religious principle. Therefore I pray that You will also maintain me. Your transcendental form is covered by the yoga-māyā. The brahma-jyotir is the covering of the internal potency. May You kindly remove this glowing effulgence that impedes my seeing Your sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1), Your eternal form of bliss and knowledge.' This yogamāyā curtain is also mentioned in the Fifteenth Chapter of the Gītā. The Supreme Personality of Godhead in His transcendental form of bliss and knowledge is covered by the eternal potency of brahma-jyotir, and the less intelligent impersonalists cannot see the Supreme on this account. Also in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (10.14.7) there is this prayer by Brahmā: 'O Supreme Personality of Godhead, O Supersoul, O master of all mystery, who can calculate Your potency and pastimes in this world? You are always expanding Your eternal potency, and therefore no one can understand You. Learned scientists and learned scholars can examine the atomic constitution of the material world or even the planets, but still they are unable to calculate Your energy and potency, although You are present before them.' The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Kṛṣṇa, is not only unborn, but He is avyaya, inexhaustible. His eternal form is bliss and knowledge, and His energies are all inexhaustible."

Prabhupāda: So, go and discuss. (end)

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1976, Bombay:

Indian man: For example?

Prabhupāda: Anyone impersonalist—"God has no form." There are so many rascals. So he has got form to speak against God, and God has no form. This is going on all over the world. He speaks against the God, that "God is not a person." So he is person, and God is not person. Just see their foolishness. He is made by God, and he is a person, and who made him, he is not a person. This is foolishness.

Indian man: Yes, there's a good sense in it.

Prabhupāda: Everything.... But therefore they are senseless, that "I am person, my father is person..."

Indian man: No, my father is not my person.

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is understood that I am person, my father is person, his father is person, and the supreme father is not a person. Just see. If the supreme father is not a person, then wherefrom these personal fathers came here? Mūḍho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. "Mām"—this is person. The mūḍhas cannot understand that the supreme father is a person. Therefore Arjuna, at the, when he understood Bhagavad-gītā, he declared that "It is very, very difficult..." (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. "...to understand Your personality. It is very, very difficult." Arjuna has said. And he has accepted Him as person, puruṣaṁ śāśvatam: "You are eternally person." Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramam, puruṣaṁ śāśvataṁ divyam ādyam (BG 10.12). These things are there. The real understanding is there. And he said, "This is.... This is accepted by Vyāsadeva, Nārada, Devala." Svayaṁ caiva: "And You are also speaking." Then where is the question of imperson? Hare Kṛṣṇa. And therefore He, Kṛṣṇa, says bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānvān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). "You are person; I surrender unto You"—this knowledge comes after many, many births of this impersonalist. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā (BG 7.19). "That great mahātmā is very rare." So one who believes and accepts the Supreme as person, he immediately becomes a mahātmā. Otherwise he remains durātmā.

Morning Walk -- February 12, 1976, Mayapura:

Dayānanda: Tagore (?) is so nice that your divine grace was presenting the perfect authority, Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And one who follows His instruction, he also perfect. That we are pushing (indistinct) Kṛṣṇa conscious, everything will be all right. Everyone is fallen, I asked this question to Kotofsky. "Sir, you have got a leader, we have got a leader, so where is the difference?" And then I said, "Only you have got a fool leader, we have got intelligent leader." Otherwise you cannot avoid leadership, authority. That is not possible.

Dayānanda: They want to avoid but they... Impersonalists are catering to that desire, they want to avoid authority and so the impersonalists are encouraging that. So they are rascals, the...

Prabhupāda: No, it is not possible to give up authority. That is not possible.

Hṛdayānanda: Your interview, those articles that you had spoken about, against Communism, are very, very brilliant. Actually we were struck with wonder to see the different arguments. Very, very important for South America because there the Communism is popular among the young students.

Prabhupāda: They read it?

Hṛdayānanda: Yes, we just published it in our magazine.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So they like that argument?

Hṛdayānanda: Yes, the argument was so intelligent that no one has ever thought of such intelligent arguments against Communism. Also the article on Freud, I think that book is very, very important. It will actually satisfy the students. No one else would dare to call these people fools. (laughter) (end)

Morning Walk -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: Yes, he'd rather be a machine and be in Kṛṣṇa's service.

Prabhupāda: No, no, machine we are, but still there is independence. That means you are not absolutely independently, relatively. The state, you say we are American-independent. But that does not mean you can do whatever you like. As soon as you misuse, you are arrested, punished. Even the president is not independent. As soon as he misused his power, drag him, "Come out." What to speak of you.

Hari-śauri: That's like an impersonalist. He doesn't want any individual existence.

Prabhupāda: And he does not agree to be guided by the supreme controller. He does not agree that He is supreme controller. "I am everything." Therefore they are called mūḍhas, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.15). Mūḍha. He's being controlled. As soon as there is some toothache, he goes to the doctor. And he says "I am God." He's becoming old, and he says that "I am God." Why you are becoming old? God is always young.

Rāmeśvara: He has another argument. He says that he's in the grip of māyā.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Nalinīkaṇṭha: In the West, people are generally unfamiliar, I think, with the philosophy of Śaṅkara, yet in your books you devote so much argument to defeating Māyāvāda philosophy. I was wondering if it is within every conditioned soul's heart to be an impersonalist. Is it.... Does every conditioned soul have the propensity for impersonalism?

Prabhupāda: No, they cannot understand God; therefore it is impersonalism. It is due to their poor fund of knowledge. So most people are in poor fund of knowledge.

Hari-śauri: As soon as one forgets Kṛṣṇa, he's impersonal.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mahendra: Just like many of us, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we were thinking, that...

Prabhupāda: They cannot think that a person, how he can produce a sky? That is beyond their conception. This is their illusion.(?) They say God is all-powerful, but He cannot produce a sky. This is their defect of knowledge. If God is all-powerful, why He cannot produce a sky? That they cannot think. Yes, He's all-powerful, cannot produce a sky. Their intellect. Poor intellect.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Duryodhana-guru: In Bhagavad-gītā it is stated, nityaḥ sarva-gataḥ sthāṇuḥ. So sarva-gataḥ, meaning the living entity is all-pervading, this is nominative singular.

Prabhupāda: Not all-pervading, everyone can go, gataḥ, one who can go anywhere.

Duryodhana-guru: Oh, so that's the understanding, because the impersonalists' understanding, they could say that the living entity is actually God by saying that he is all-pervading, sarva-gataḥ. They could interpret it in this way.

Prabhupāda: But you ask him, you are sarva-gataḥ? If you are intelligent you should have asked him, are you sarva-gataḥ? What he'll answer?

Duryodhana-guru: Well, he'll have to say, "No, not in this stage of life. Once I become liberated, then I will be." (devotees laugh)

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Just see the jugglery of words. Now why you forgot yourself? You are sarva-gataḥ; now why you are conditioned? Why?

Duryodhana-guru: Well, couldn't answer, I guess.

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. (devotees laugh)

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's all. (laughs) That is also doubtful.

Rāmeśvara: Kṛṣṇa incarnates into every species of life. He can appear in any form.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise, why the form came? Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). If we have to accept this sūtra, that everything emanates from Him, so unless Kṛṣṇa has got such similar form...?

Hari-śauri: That's one argument that always defeats the impersonalists. They can't explain how forms have come from something without form.

Prabhupāda: Impersonalists are neophytes. My Guru Mahārāja used to say, "With poor fund of knowledge." Their knowledge is imperfect.

Rāmeśvara: Yesterday you were telling a reporter that it is not possible for modern man to travel to the moon, but in your Second Canto you describe that in a previous age of Kali the men had created mechanical means for going to other planets, and they were creating havoc all over the universe, and Lord Buddha appeared to stop their nonsense.

Prabhupāda: Lord Buddha?

Rāmeśvara: I remember.... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...they are all mythology. Do they not say?

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Jayādvaita: This is the purport. "Those eligible for elevation to the transcendental position are mentioned in this verse. For those who are sinful, atheistic, foolish and deceitful, it is very difficult to transcend the duality of desire and hate. Only those who have passed their lives in practicing the regulative principles of religion, who have acted piously and have conquered sinful reactions can accept devotional service and gradually rise to the pure knowledge of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Then, gradually, they can meditate in trance on the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the process of being situated on the spiritual platform. This elevation is possible in Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the association of pure devotees who can deliver one from delusion. It is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that if one actually wants to be liberated, he must render service to the devotees; but one who associates with materialistic people is on the path leading to the darkest region of existence. All the devotees of the Lord traverse this earth just to recover the conditioned souls from their delusion. The impersonalists do not know that forgetting their constitutional position as subordinate to the Supreme Lord is the greatest violation of God's law. Unless one is reinstated in his own constitutional position, it is not possible to understand the Supreme Personality or to be fully engaged in His transcendental loving service with determination."

Scheverman: Yes, we can certainly agree with that.

Prabhupāda: So, we have to teach people how to refrain from sinful activities. Then, when he's pure, then God will reveal. If we keep them in sinful life, at the same time we want to preach them, it will not be possible. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said that those who are animal killer, they cannot understand about God. Vinā paśu-ghnāt. So if in the human society unnecessary animal killing is encouraged, he will never be able to understand what is God. The greatest sinful activity, paśu-ghnāt. So in human society, unnecessarily animal killing is going on. So they are entangled in sinful activities; therefore they are unable to understand what is God.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Equally disposed. As soon as he knows that I am not this body, I am spirit soul, then there is no distinction. Just like two American goes to India. So when they understand that "We are Americans," immediately their interest becomes one, although they are in the foreign country. That is psychology. Similarly, as soon as we come to the spiritual platform, there is no such distinction as black, white, Hindu, Muslim, Christian. Everything finished. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. You are reading the purport?

Jayādvaita: Purport: "To the impersonalist, achieving the brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20) stage, becoming one with the Absolute, is the last word. But for the personalist, or pure devotee, one has to go still further to become engaged in pure devotional service. This means that one who is engaged in pure devotional service to the Supreme Lord is already in a state of liberation, called brahma-bhūta, oneness with the Absolute. Without being one with the Supreme, the Absolute, one cannot render service unto Him. In the absolute conception, there is no difference between the served and the servitor; yet the distinctions is there, in a higher spiritual sense. In the material concept of life, when one works for sense gratification, there is misery, but in the absolute world, when one is engaged in pure devotional service, there is no misery. The devotee in Kṛṣṇa consciousness has nothing to lament or desire. Since God is full, a living entity who is engaged in God's service, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, becomes also full in himself. He is just like a river cleansed of all dirty water. Because a pure devotee has no thought other than Kṛṣṇa, he is naturally always joyful. He does not lament for any material loss or gain because he is full in service to the Lord. He has no desire for material enjoyment because he knows that every living entity is the fragmental part and parcel of the Supreme Lord and therefore eternally a servant. He does not see, in the material world, someone as higher and someone as lower; higher and lower positions are ephemeral, and a devotee has nothing to do with ephemeral appearances or disappearances. For him, stone and gold are of equal value. This is the brahma-bhūta stage, and this stage is attained very easily..."

Prabhupāda: So this brahma-bhūta stage is spiritual stage. We want to bring everyone to this spiritual stage. That is the sum and substance. We are not on the material stage. Therefore it is little difficult to understand. Everyone is on the material stage, but we are working on the spiritual stage. But the spirit and matter, we can distinguish. Without the spirit, the body is nothing but lump of matter. The spirit is there, the matter is there, but we are so dull, we do not understand what is that spirit. That is the difficulty of the modern society. This is the most important thing. Without the spirit the body cannot move. They are daily experiencing that without spirit the body is nothing, decomposed matter. But still they are simply licking up that decomposed matter without taking care of the spiritual. This is the most defective position of the modern society. So it is not a Hindu religion or Christian religion. It is a science to understand.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: That is Vallabhācārya.

Pradyumna: Uh.... Śrī-bhagavat-prasādācārya-praṇīta-bhakti-mano-rañjanī.

Prabhupāda: All the ācāryas, in their disciplic succession, they have written their comments. Only Śaṅkarācārya has not written. (laughs) He's impersonalist. He could not. Although the present generation of Śaṅkarācārya, they are living by reciting Bhāgavatam and making kadarthanā. This is going on.

Indian man: They advocate the advaita-tattva in Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: There is one Akandananda Swami in Vṛndāvana.

Indian man: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: There is.... "Kṛṣṇa, kṛ means this, ṣṇa means this," like that.

Indian man: Even Rāmānujācārya sampradāya, Bhāgavata is not cited, quoted. Bhāgavata quotes. (indistinct) Rāmānuja does not quote from Bhāgavata in Śrī-bhāṣya.

Prabhupāda: Rāmānuja, here is Rāmān, Vīra-rāghavācārya is Rāmānuja.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Yes. The Vedantists they have come from the impersonal explanation of Śaṅkarācārya. Śārīraka-bhāṣya. But they simply give stress on the Śārīraka-bhāṣya, but there are other bhāṣyas. Bhāṣyas means commentary. And the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the natural commentary by the author himself. Besides that, there are Vedānta-bhāṣyas written by the Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, and all the Vaiṣṇava ācāryas. Unfortunately, they do not care to read all these Vedānta-bhāṣyas. They simply take Śārīraka-bhāṣya and become impersonalist and call themselves as Vedantist.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: What is the reason for that?

Prabhupāda: Reason means people do not know. They cheat. Suppose I present something, a misconception, and if there are others also who can speak something on the... There are two lawyers. One is speaking one point of law, another lawyer is speaking. So if you take one side only, then how you will understand? So they are simply reading this Śārīraka-bhāṣya. They are not reading other bhāṣyas, just like the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, which is natural. And they are cheating people. That's all. Why there are two lawyers? Two opposite parties, there are two lawyers. One lawyer says this law is like this, and the other party says, "No, it is this." And the judge is there, he will take what is the real meaning. But this interpretation is required when things are not clear. Now the Vedānta-sūtra says, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), "The Absolute Truth is that from whom everything comes in, emanates." Now, here is... In the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa said that ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). Clearly. That "I am the origin of everything, and everything comes from Me." So why don't you take it? Why simply you remain theoretically understood that Absolute Truth is that from which everything emanates. But when the Absolute Truth comes before you and says that "I am the origin of everything. Everything comes from Me." Why don't you accept Kṛṣṇa as Absolute Truth? Why do you take the so-called impersonalist view only, that God has no form? Here is God speaking, person. Why don't you take it? If you want to be cheated, then who can stop you? Here Kṛṣṇa says, sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo (BG 15.15). Find out this verse.

Room Conversation -- July 1, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: He is very strict. He is a stubborn enemy of Śaṅkarācārya. All the Vaiṣṇava ācāryas. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, declare it: māyāvādi-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa (CC Madhya 6.169). If you hear the interpretation of Māyāvādīs, then you are doomed. You have no hope for spiritual advancement. This is the statement. Māyāvādi-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa. Finished, your spiritual life is finished. You can write this also, that Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction is strictly to avoid the so-called Vedantists.

Hari-śauri: All these impersonalists, they always represent themselves as being big Vedantists. They don't know anything.

Prabhupāda: And people, leaders of India, they are thinking, "Where is this Vedantist?" In foreign countries, what is their position?

Hari-śauri: Somehow or other, they seem to think that the Vedānta is something better than any of the other śāstra. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam doesn't seem to be so popular in India as Vedānta or something like that.

Prabhupāda: It is very popular amongst the Māyāvāda people. You speak also... Now the so-called Vedantists they are speaking on Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, distorting. Akhoyananda, Akandananda, Karpatri, the rascals. Because they have no subject matter to speak, they are distorting the meaning of Bhāgavata. This boy appears to be nice, this fat boy.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Sense gratification is never helpful. That is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that kāmasya nendriya-prītir (SB 1.2.10). Sense gratification is required as far as..., as little as possible. Otherwise, not for sense gratification. Just like sleeping. Sleeping is required because this material body requires some rest. But not that we shall sleep twenty-four hours or twenty hours and enjoy, as in this country sometimes they enjoy sleeping. But sleeping is wasting time. So long we shall sleep we cannot do anything good work. Therefore it should be minimized. You cannot avoid sleeping altogether. That is not possible. But it should be accepted to the minimum extent. That is not possible. But it should be accepted to the minimum extent. That is called tapasya, or advancement of spiritual life. Eating, sleeping, sex and defense. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna. They're required. So long we have got this body, we require to eat something, we require to sleep sometimes, we require a little sense gratification, and we require defense. But it should be minimized, not increased. That is tapasya. In the human life this is possible, this is possible. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **. One can conquer over these things, by practice. The more we minimize this āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna, this means we are advanced in spiritual taste.(?) It is practiced. My, my personal life, I don't sleep at night. And nowadays, at most, one hour. Yes. But I take rest in the daytime, at least two to three hours. So it is not that I am sleeping one hour. I sleep three to four hours total. But if practiced, it can be reduced, practiced. We see in the life of Gosvāmīs. About them, it is said: nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **. They conquered over sleeping, eating. If we conquer over eating, then we can conquer over sleeping and other things also. If we can control over this tongue, then we can control over the other senses very easily. That is a fact. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has sung, tar madhye jihvā ati, lobhamoy sudurmati, tā 'ke jetā koṭhina saṁsāre. Of all our senses the tongue is very, very prominent. So the first thing in spiritual advancement, the first thing is to control the tongue. In the śāstra also it is said sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. Ataḥ śrī kṛṣṇa nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ (BRS. 1.2.234). Our present senses are unable to understand sri kṛṣṇa nāmādi, the holy name of the Lord. Ādi, beginning from His name, nāma, then guṇa, qualities, then pastimes, then form. So people cannot understand the form of the Lord because they are not practiced to devotional service. They are more or less impersonalists. They cannot imagine that God has His form like us, because they are not sevonmukha. Ataḥ śrī kṛṣṇa nāmādi. Not to speak of the form, they cannot understand what is the holy name of the Lord, why they are chanting, what is the benefit. They cannot understand.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Rūpānuga: But sometimes the impersonalists, they say, Prabhupāda, that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is just the beginning platform, that after Kṛṣṇa consciousness then one can come to impersonal realization. They say that in the scriptures only Bhagavad-gītā and a few scriptures teach about Kṛṣṇa but the rest of the Vedas don't even talk about Kṛṣṇa's name. So, therefore, this impersonalism is higher realization, but one comes to it, after bhakti.

Prabhupāda: No. There are Vedas, there are so many names described. Kṛṣṇa says, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). If one has not understood Kṛṣṇa by studying Vedas, then he has not studied Vedas. It is very confidential. Otherwise, why Kṛṣṇa says vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15)? If one has studied Veda, but has not understood Kṛṣṇa, then his labor is useless. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). If one is actually jñānavān, then he (indistinct). Śaṅkarācārya said bhaja govindam, bhaja govindam. That is real knowledge. But if one says that in the Vedas, you don't find Kṛṣṇa's name, then he has not studied Veda. Because Kṛṣṇa says, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). The actual purpose of studying Vedas means to understand Kṛṣṇa. If one has not understood Kṛṣṇa, then śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). They have simply labored for nothing.

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes, bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindam...

Guest (3): Vande Kṛṣṇa jagat-guru.

Prabhupāda: So he's the leader of the impersonalists, he accepts kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). Sa bhagavān svayam kṛṣṇa. Then what to speak of the Vaiṣṇava ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya. Rāmānujācārya has given Bhagavad-gītā comments, every line Vedic evidence. You read Bhagavad-gītā commented by Rāmānujācārya, you'll find every line he has quoted from Vedas. So there is no doubt about it. Simply one has to study very intelligently about Kṛṣṇa, then he will come to the conclusion that He is God.

Guest (4) (Indian man): I'd like to ask a question, but I'm a little bit timid about doing so, but I will ask it. Would it be possible to think of.... Well, first I have to say that I tend to think of religions as personalities. Would it be possible...

Prabhupāda: Why?

Guest (3): All the religions.

Prabhupāda: No, no, why you think like that? You are not authority.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: He has given advertisement for our books.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, very favorable.

Rādhāvallabha: The amazing thing is that he's an impersonalist.

Prabhupāda: Impersonalist?

Rādhāvallabha: The man who wrote all of these articles, he's an impersonalist.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's a picture of him.

Prabhupāda: Oh, he's American?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.

Tripurāri: He thinks there are different types of meditation that all work, and ours is one type, bona fide, that works. There are also other types.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The article goes on—I don't know if you want to hear it all. You want to hear it? Okay. Here's this thing called "Who is Kṛṣṇa?" "Kṛṣṇa, viewed by ISKCON as the Supreme Personification of Godhead, is said to have many pastimes in which He assumes different appearances. One such is that of Gopālajī, the cowherd boy—see picture, cowherd boy—He can appear in other forms such as four-armed Nārāyaṇa. Most often Kṛṣṇa is portrayed as having light blue skin and, by Western standards, a soft and effeminate physique. He is said to be full in the six opulences: beauty, strength, fame, wealth, knowledge and renunciation. He is said to be all-attractive. Kṛṣṇa incarnates on one planet after another in infinite universes. The last time He appeared on earth as Kṛṣṇa was five thousand years ago. He will not return in that form for another four hundred thousand years, but five hundred years ago He appeared in His incarnation of Lord Caitanya, who taught people of the mahāmantra and started the Kṛṣṇa consciousness in its present state. According to the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa hungers for the devotion of His followers." Very nicely put. "This devotion in its pure sense takes the form of bhakti-yoga, the dedication of one's every action to Kṛṣṇa. Thus to use one's sense for one's own pleasure is to deny Kṛṣṇa devotion and accumulate negative karma. Kṛṣṇa has a consort, Rādhā, but She is considered only as an extension of His own pleasure principle, since He is all things. It is through Her intercession that devotees seek favors from Kṛṣṇa. According to ISKCON, Kṛṣṇa is the same God worshiped as Jehovah, Allah and so on." That is the explanation of who Kṛṣṇa is.

Rādhāvallabha: He could write for Back to Godhead.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Rādhāvallabha: He could write for Back to Godhead.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda, in New York City, many of these big buildings have courtyards, and in the courtyards they have purchased sculpture. So all the sculpture is abstract. They are against form; they are all impersonalists. And they spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to have these gigantic structures. All over New York City you see them. They have no form.

Prabhupāda: That is a form. The structure itself has a form.

Rāmeśvara: But it's abstract.

Prabhupāda: No, it is not ab..., it is form.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not personal, that's what he means.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is a form of their imagination, that's all. Not standard form, but it is a form. They want to make everything formless with form. That means they cannot avoid form.

Devotees: Oh, jaya.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (break) ...political satires. Critic of the government put the criticism in the form of a children's story, but indirectly was criticizing the government.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...reason they cannot keep this park neat and clean? In other cities they keep.

Room Conversation -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Indian man: Muktananda. And he has got his retreat, and some of our people go there, and I heard from them that he is teaching... He is quoting Gītā, but if you go to his room, oṁ namaḥ śivāya. I said, "This is contradiction." I said, "If he is a Śiva follower, he should teach Śiva Purāṇa and not Gītā." I said...

Prabhupāda: But they are actually impersonalists. They neither follow Śiva nor Kṛṣṇa. They are impersonalists. Their idea is the Absolute Truth is imperson. You can worship Him either as Śiva or as Kṛṣṇa, as you like. That is their philosophy. Yes.

Indian man: Yes. But this is the height of hypocrisy, to teach Gītā and to chant oṁ namaḥ śivāya.

Prabhupāda: No, because they say, "Either way, you become impersonal at the end. You Brahma-liṅga;(?) you become one with Brahma. But before you become Brahma-liṅga, you can imagine some form, either Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu or Śiva or Durgā, the same thing." That is their...

Indian man: In fact some of the arguments that I received were... "If you go to heaven, let's say, Vaikuṇṭha, then you become... You join the impersonal Brahman. Then you have nothing else to do." He says, "In material world we have family. We have something to do." I said, "If you believe in impersonalism, you have nothing to do. If you believe in personalism, you will serve the Lord there."

Prabhupāda: Impersonal means if you have nothing to do, then you'll become mad.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Yogeśvara: Can the older boys be trained in a particular kind of devotional service? For example, press work?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, everything is devotional. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam (SB 7.5.23), there are varieties. We are not Māyāvādī, impersonalists, finished, all business. It is not like that. So whatever business is going on in our movement, everything should be taught according to the capacity, boys or girls, it doesn't matter. Some department is suitable for the boys, some department are suitable for the girls. In this way, they should be trained up. But everyone should be trained up to give service. That is Gurukula. And brahmacārī, this sex impulse should be controlled. That ruins the whole character. Our big, big sannyāsīs are becoming victimized. So that is the danger. Woman is good, man is good; when they combine together, bad. This is the material world. Both of them are good, but when they combine together, they are bad. This is material world. In the spiritual world, there is no such combination of sense gratification. Therefore it is always good. Everyone is part and parcel of God. So they are good. In the spiritual world, they combine together, it becomes bad, in the material world. In the spiritual world there is no such combination of sense gratification. Therefore they are always good. So you have to train like that. In the spiritual world there are very, very beautiful women, thousand, thousands times. Here, in the heavenly planets, they are calculated the best perfectional body of the woman. But in the spiritual world, still further. But there is no attraction of sex. They are working together, serving together, everything. But the sex attraction, there is no. They are elevated so much in the service of the Lord.... Sex attraction is a kind of pleasure.

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Yogeśvara: Professor's upstairs putting on a dhotī. He brought his daughter. Professor Chenique teaches a course in Bhagavad-gītā at the University, and he is also doing translations of Śaṅkarācārya and teaches for the Federation of Yoga. He considers himself a Christian Advaitist. (break) ...some questions regarding the publications in French. For example, on the front of Back to Godhead magazine, in the English edition and other language editions, they have kept the phrase "Godhead is light, darkness is nescience. Where there is Godhead there is no nescience." Now in French it is difficult to translate that. There is no word Godhead. And if you say "God is light," in French it sounds very impersonalist. In French, Dieux est lumiere, "God is light." Many groups say like that. We use the word Godhead, and that distinguishes us from the other groups. Now is the phrase very important, and do you want us to keep it on the front of the magazine? It should be there.

Prabhupāda: There is a little difference between God and Godhead.

Yogeśvara: So when we will have to try to find...

Prabhupāda: Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ. Īśvara, more or less everyone, but īśvaraḥ paramaḥ, that is Godhead. The Māyāvādīs, they do not distinguish between one īśvara to another īśvara. That may be on the ordinary level, but there is parama īśvara.

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Neophyte is neophyte. Why do you bring him to become a devotee? A devotee is different. A "one plus one equal to two," he's not mathematician. He's learning. There is hope one day he'll be a big mathematician. There are three stages, kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, madhyama-adhikārī, uttama-adhikārī. So when you speak of devotee, that is this uttama-adhikārī. So he knows everything. Rather, the so-called jñānī, he does not know. Because he does not know Kṛṣṇa. The so-called jñānī, he does not know what is Personality of Godhead. He's impersonalist. Therefore he is still unaware of the Absolute Truth. Therefore he's not jñānī. His jñāna, his knowledge, is lacking. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said,

bahūnāṁ janmanām ante

jñānavān māṁ prapadyate

vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti

sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ

(BG 7.19)

If one jñānī is impersonalist, he's not jñānī. He is still unaware of the Absolute Truth. He does not know. Therefore it will take many, many births to come to the understanding of the Personality of Godhead. Therefore he's not jñānī, he's claiming to be jñānī. Such jñānī will take many hundreds of births to come to the position of real jñānī. Find out this bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). So-called jñānī, after many, many births, when he understands Kṛṣṇa and surrenders to Him, then he's jñānī. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That kind of jñānī is very, very rare. The impersonalist means ajñānī. Yes. Because he does not know Kṛṣṇa, the person. There is another verse in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). Āruhya kṛcchreṇa, by the jñāna process, is undergoing austerities and penances, one comes to the platform of paraṁ padam, monism, or platform of oneness. But because he has no shelter, he patanty adhaḥ, again comes to the material.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Purport?

Pradyumna: "The Lord's descent from his transcendental abode, is already explained in the sixth verse. One who can understand the truth of the appearance of the Personality of Godhead is already liberated from material bondage and therefore he returns to the kingdom of God immediately after quitting this present material body. Such liberation of the living entity from material bondage is not at all easy. The impersonalists and the yogis attain liberation only after much trouble and many, many births. Even then the liberation they achieve, merging into the impersonal brahma-jyotir of the Lord, is only partial and there's the risk of returning again to this material world. But the devotee, simply by understanding the transcendental nature of the body and activities of the Lord, attains the abode of the Lord after ending this body and does not run the risk of returning again to this material world. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is stated that the Lord has many, many forms and incarnations: advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam (Bs. 5.33). Although there are many transcendental forms of the Lord, they are still one and the same Supreme Personality of Godhead. One has to understand this fact with conviction, although it is incomprehensible to mundane scholars and empiric philosophers. As stated in the Vedas:

eko devo nitya-līlānurakto

bhakta-vyāpī hṛdy antar-ātmā

'The one Supreme Personality of Godhead is eternally engaged in many, many transcendental forms in relationships with His unalloyed devotees.' This Vedic version is confirmed in this verse of the Gītā personally by the Lord. He who accepts this truth on the strength of the authority of the Vedas and of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and who does not waste time in philosophical speculations attains the highest perfectional stage of liberation. Simply by accepting this truth on faith, one can, without a doubt, attain liberation. The Vedic version, tat tvam asi, is actually applied in this case. Anyone who understands Lord Kṛṣṇa to be the Supreme, or who says unto the Lord, 'You are the Supreme Brahman, the Personality of Godhead,' is certainly liberated instantly, and consequently his entrance into the transcendental association of the Lord is guaranteed. In other words, such a faithful devotee of the Lord attains perfection, and this is confirmed by the following Vedic assertion:

tam eva viditvāti mṛtyum eti

nānyaḥ panthā vidyate 'yanāya

One can attain the perfect stage of liberation from birth and death simply by knowing the Lord, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There is no alternative because anyone who does not understand Lord Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is surely in the mode of ignorance. Consequently he will not attain salvation, simply, so to speak, by licking the outer surface of the bottle of honey, or by interpreting the Bhagavad-gītā according to mundane scholarship. Such empiric philosophers may assume many important roles in the material world, but they are not necessarily eligible for liberation. Such puffed up mundane scholars have to wait for the causeless mercy of the devotee of the Lord. One should therefore cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness with faith and knowledge, and in this way attain perfection."

Prabhupāda: So if there is some process to become independent of this material body, why should we not accept? What is the objection? If somebody's suffering from some disease and if there is process of curing it, why one should not take it? (long pause) So your friend's questions and answers are not coming?

Atreya Ṛṣi: They just came to listen, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: No, they must be satisfied.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Ātreya, when this is going on you cannot talk, then the attention will be diverted. You can later on explain. Go on.

Harikeśa: "The first six chapters of the Gītā are meant for those who are interested in transcendental knowledge, in understanding the self, the Superself and the process of realization by jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, and discrimination of the self from matter. However, Kṛṣṇa can only be known by persons who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Other transcendentalists may achieve impersonal Brahman realization, for this is easier than understanding Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person, but at the same time He is beyond the knowledge of Brahman and Paramātmā. The yogis and jñānīs are confused in their attempts to understand Kṛṣṇa, although the greatest of the impersonalists, Śrīpāda Śaṅkarācārya, has admitted in his Gītā commentary that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But his followers do not accept Kṛṣṇa as such, for it is very difficult to know Kṛṣṇa, even though one has transcendental realization of impersonal Brahman. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the cause of..."

Prabhupāda: The subject matter itself is difficult. Therefore ordinary persons or a little advanced person cannot understand. And unless one is fully aware of Kṛṣṇa, one cannot become spiritual master. The subject matter itself is difficult. Therefore you don't find many spiritual masters.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: The subject matter itself is difficult. Therefore ordinary persons or a little advanced person cannot understand. And unless one is fully aware of Kṛṣṇa, one cannot become spiritual master. The subject matter itself is difficult. Therefore you don't find many spiritual masters. Go on.

Harikeśa: "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the cause of all causes, the primeval Lord Govinda.

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

(Bs. 5.1)

It is very difficult for the nondevotees to know Him. Although nondevotees declare that the path of bhakti, or devotional service, is very easy, they cannot practice it. If the path of bhakti is so easy, as the nondevotee class of men proclaim, then why do they take up the difficult path? Actually, the path of bhakti is not easy. The so-called path of bhakti practiced by unauthorized persons without knowledge of bhakti may be easy, but when it is practiced factually, according to the rules and regulations, the speculative scholars and philosophers fall away from the path. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī writes in his Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu:

śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi-

pañcarātra-vidhiṁ vinā

aikāntikī harer bhaktir

utpātāyaiva kalpate

(Brs. 1.2.101)

'Devotional service of the Lord that ignores the authorized Vedic literatures like the Upaniṣads, Purāṇas, Nārada Pañcarātra, etc., is simply an unnecessary disturbance in society.' It is not possible for the Brahman realized impersonalist or the Paramātmā realized yogi to understand Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead as the son of Mother Yaśodā or the charioteer of Arjuna. Even the great demigods are sometimes confused about Kṛṣṇa: muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ, māṁ tu veda na kaścana. 'No one knows Me as I am,' the Lord says. And if one does know Him, then sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ, 'Such a great soul is very rare.' Therefore unless one practices devotional service to the Lord, he cannot know Kṛṣṇa as He is (tattvataḥ), even though one is a great scholar or philosopher. Only the pure devotees can know something of the inconceivable transcendental qualities in Kṛṣṇa, in the cause of all causes, in His omnipotence and opulence, and in His wealth, fame, strength, beauty, knowledge and renunciation, because Kṛṣṇa is benevolently inclined to His devotees. He is the last word in Brahman realization, and the devotees alone can realize Him as He is. Therefore it is said:

ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi

na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ

sevonmukhe hi jihvādau

svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ

(Brs. 1.2.234)

'No one can understand Kṛṣṇa as He is by the blunt material senses. But He reveals Himself to the devotees, being pleased with them for their transcendental loving service unto Him.' (Padma Purāṇa)"

Prabhupāda: (loud chanting from mosques and singing in background) These words, aja, what is the meaning of this?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Allah, "God is great, God is great, God is great." "God is greater than can be ever described. I accept and witness that God is one and there is no other partner, or any..."

Prabhupāda: Competitor.

Morning Walk -- August 23, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Limited period, no. Because he cannot remain there. Just like if you go in the sky you cannot remain in the sky. If you don't get any shelter you have to come again. They are going to, trying to go to the other planets, but because they cannot, they come back again. Similarly, you are living entity, you want enjoyment. So what enjoyment you will have in the sky? You require society, friends, love, everything. So these impersonalists, their mokṣa is temporary because they think by merging into the impersonal Brahman I shall be happy. But that he cannot. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). Although they go to the impersonal Brahman, but there is no ānanda. The living entity is seeking after ānanda-mayo 'bhyāsāt. By nature he is seeking ānanda. So you do not get any ānanda.

Indian man: Is that merger itself not ānanda?

Prabhupāda: No ānanda. It is eternity, but no ānanda. So eternally how you can remain without ānanda? So you have to come back again. Because here there is something ānanda although it is temporary. So unless you go to God and dance with Him, you'll have to back, come. So impersonalists, they cannot reconcile how God can be personal. Because you have got very bad experience of personal here, they think God is also a similar person. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). He thinks God is also a human being like me. Avajānanti. Mūḍhāḥ. They are mūḍhas. They are not intelligent.

Letter to Sai Baba -- September 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Pradyumna: "Those who are worshipers of demigods have been described as less intelligent persons, and here the impersonalists are similarly described. Lord Kṛṣṇa in His personal form is here speaking before Arjuna, and still, due to ignorance, impersonalists argue that the Supreme Lord ultimately has no form. Yāmunācārya, a great devotee of the Lord in the disciplic succession from Rāmānujācārya, has written two very appropriate verses in this connection. He says, 'My dear Lord, devotees like Vyāsadeva and Nārada know You to be the Personality of Godhead. By understanding different Vedic literatures, one can come to know Your characteristics, Your form and Your activities, and one can thus understand that You are the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But those who are in the modes of passion and ignorance, the demons, the nondevotees, cannot understand You. They are unable to understand You. However expert such nondevotees may be in discussing Vedānta and the Upaniṣads and other Vedic literatures, it is not possible for them to understand the Personality of Godhead.' In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is stated that the Personality of Godhead cannot be understood simply by study of the Vedānta literature. Only by the mercy of the Supreme Lord can the Personality of the Supreme be known. Therefore in this verse it is clearly stated that not only the worshipers of the demigods are less intelligent, but those nondevotees who are engaged in Vedānta and speculation on Vedic literature..."

Prabhupāda: You can give up to that Yāmunācārya's quotation. What you have written.

Pradyumna: So far? Everything? Or just... Only, is one's word only...

Prabhupāda: What you have written.

Pradyumna: "Dear Sai Baba, just recently..."

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Last what you have written.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Now our this Svarūpa Dāmodara and others, they can also come.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We should approach all these people and get them to take part in the petition.

Prabhupāda: That Bhavan's Journal, he did not dare to publish my statement. Everyone is combined to kill Kṛṣṇa. Everyone, all over the world. God... "There is no God," the scientists, these philosophers, the politicians, everyone. This is the only movement talking of God. Nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādī. Everywhere, impersonalists and zero. There is no God. The zero-vādīs, they are little frank but these rascals, nirviśeṣavādīs, God has no head, no tail, they are dangerous. Zero-vādīs, they call him zero, that's alright. That is, we can understand, they admit. But these rascals, zero, nirviśeṣavādīs, "Yes, there is God, but He has no head, he has no tail, he has no hand, he has no leg." Then what he has? They are greatest cheater. More dangerous than the śūnyavādīs. That is the version of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Vedinam mayima bhogda hoila nāstik, vedāśraya, nāstikavāda bhogda ki hodi. These Buddhists, they do not care for the Vedic injunction. We can understand. But these Śankarites they take shelter of the Vedas and they say, "There is no form of God." And that is being followed (by) the so-called Hindus. All the invitees in that meeting, Bajaj meeting, they are all nirviśeṣvādī.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Impersonalists.

Prabhupāda: All impersonal.

Jagadisa: That's why there may be an (indistinct) in getting Indian people to support our movement.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jagadisa: If there is any trouble in getting Indians...

Prabhupāda: No, we don't care for Indians and Europeans. We care for Kṛṣṇa, that's all. I didn't care for anyone. I simply care for Kṛṣṇa, that's all. And my Guru Mahārāja, that's all. I went to your country, not supported by Indians and Europeans. I went on the order of my Guru Mahārāja and under the shelter of Kṛṣṇa's protection, that's all. That is wanted. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). We want two favours. One from guru, one from Kṛṣṇa. That's all. We don't want anyone's favour. So you have to fight. You cannot fight (sic:) immaterious. Kṛṣṇa never said, "Arjuna, oh you are my devotee, you sit down and sleep, I shall take care of..." He never said that. (laughs) So if you take that position, we are devotees, non-violent, and let us sleep, that is not... Fight! With all the resources that we have got. That is wanted. (voices in background of Indian people) That you cannot stop. They are coming, going, how you can stop? People, public, they are coming, going.

Press Interview -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Indian man: Each ācārya differed in interpretation of religion and approach to it. You diff... Śaṅkara and Vallabha say...

Prabhupāda: There are two sections, the impersonalist and the personalist. The personalists are the Vaiṣṇavas, and the impersonalists are the Māyāvādīs. So far the spiritual life is concerned, there is no difference. There is no difference. Just like Śaṅkara. Śaṅkarācārya said that brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. The spiritual life is reality. And this is nonreality. But we say that this is duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). Kṛṣṇa said. We are follower of Kṛṣṇa. "This is a place of suffering. And if you come to Me then your suffering ends." So this world is condemned either by Śaṅkarācārya, or others, everyone. But the modern rascals, they have taken this world as everything. Therefore they are in ignorance. Do you follow? They have taken this world, this life of fifty years or sixty years, at most hundred years, as reality. These rascals have no knowledge that we have life after annihilation of this body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Who knows it? Bring big, big men, big, big politician.

Press Interview -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Begin when one who is Kṛṣṇa bhakta. Begin there.

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ

jñāninas tattva...

(BG 4.34)

Who has seen actually Kṛṣṇa, go to him. But you are going to somebody who can manufacture gold. Because you are not concerned with Kṛṣṇa. You are concerned with gold. That is your motive. So you must be cheated. You want to be cheated. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). They do not know. Life's mission is how to achieve the platform where I can talk with Kṛṣṇa, I can talk with Lord. Where is that? Nobody knows that. They do not believe there is Kṛṣṇa, there is Lord, there is God and you can see Him, you can talk with Him. They do not believe. Mostly impersonalists. And impersonalists, they're all mostly atheists. So what they'll do by jugglery and this magic? This magic will be finished within twenty or thirty years. That will be finished. Show this magic that "No! No more death." That is real magic. What is this magic? In a moment you'll be slapped and go. Then tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You do not know where you are going. Kṛṣṇa says tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. But you do not know what kind of body you are going to get. So what this magic will do? So these are for less intelligent persons. They are not for sane persons.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No. They had some tinge that "By bhakti I shall enjoy this material world." And bhakti means anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). I have not at all, niṣkiñcana. Niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. They don't care for this Brahmā's post or Indra's post or... They don't care.

Dr. Patel: Bhakti-cāriṇī.

Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes. Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate. For a devotee, this kaivalya-sukha of the Māyāvādī, impersonalist...

Dr. Patel: Just like naraka.

Prabhupāda: Is the hell for them. What is this nonsense? Who will understand this? Huh? Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate. And heaven, tridaśa-pūrākāśa-puṣpāyate. Heavenly planets, they are will of the wisp. Phantasmagoria. Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate tridaśa-pūrākāśa-puṣpāyate durdāntendriya-kāla-sarpa-paṭalī. Karmī, jñānī... Jñānī wants kaivalya and karmī wants heavenly happiness. And the yogi, yogi wants to control the senses. So he says that "Yes, we know the senses are very powerful." Durdāntendriya-kāla-sarpa-paṭalī. Indriya, it is just like snake. If you play with a snake you do not know at any moment death is there by biting. So although these indriyas are like snakes, kāla-sarpa, venomous serpent, but protkhāta-daṁṣṭrāyate. We have... What is called? Extricated?

Girirāja: Extracted

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Relation is there. Relation is there. Otherwise, how can I address him? Relation is there. So this form Hare, means Hara, is the potency of Hari. (break) Just like you are a gṛhastha. You have got your wife, you have got your maidservant. The maidservant is doing something, wife is doing something, but you have many potencies. The managing director is there, but he has got many assistants. Similarly, the Supreme Person has got multi-assistants, potencies. So they are all accepted as Hara, Hari's potencies. So we have to approach Hari through the potency: "O Hare. O the potency of the Lord. O Lord, be merciful." We cannot jump over the Lord without going through the potency. So those who are impersonalists, they cannot understand. But those who are intelligent, they can understand that God is person, He has got multi-potencies, and through the potencies He's working so nicely. This is Vedic injunction. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport).

Room Conversation with Film Producer about Krsna Lila -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Hari-śauri: "This statement of Parīkṣit Mahārāja's was very much appreciated by Śukadeva Gosvāmī. The answer anticipates the abominable activities of the Māyāvādī impersonalists, who place themselves in the position of Kṛṣṇa and enjoy the company of young girls and women. The basic Vedic injunctions never allow a person to enjoy sex with any woman except one's own wife. Kṛṣṇa's appreciation of the gopīs appeared to be distinctly in violation of these rules. Mahārāja Parīkṣit understood the total situation from Śukadeva Gosvāmī, yet to further clear the transcendental nature of Kṛṣṇa and the gopīs in the rasa dance, he expressed his surprise. This is very important in order to check the unrestricted association with women by the prākṛta-sahajiyā. In his statement, Mahārāja Parīkṣit has used several important..."

Prabhupāda: In Vṛndāvana this prākṛta-sahajiyā, they are making bhajana that a man, he thinks that "I am Kṛṣṇa"; another woman...

Guest (2): That is Rādhā.

Prabhupāda: "Rādhā." This rascaldom is going on.

Room Conversation -- March 24, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is from Dr. K. K. Divyeshwar to the Secretary of Hare Kṛṣṇa Land, "Respected Śrī Gopāla Dāsajī. Haribol, Swamiji. Namaste to you, all the Gosvāmīs, and all the gop..." Ahem. "My heartfelt congratulations to venerable Śrīla Prabhupādajī with my most humble long stretch at his feet, who at this juncture has not shown any disturbance or upheaval from his side. Truly the great saint is nearer to God than we in many respects. His greatness and nearness to eternity makes me bow down for his blessings. May Lord Caitanya bless us and direct us towards the superior light and let us attain more and more wisdom to be with him for an eternal merger." It's a little bit impersonalist, I think. (laughter) "Haribol, Swamiji. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Rāma." (laughter) At least he's chanting the holy name. "Yours obediently, Dr. K. K..." Who is that?

Hṛdayānanda: Divyeshwar.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's to you, Gopāla. (laughter) Your preaching doesn't seem to be... Oh, this is from Shaktimati. Now we have her correct address.

Prabhupāda: Let other.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Oh. Someone else is going to have to read it. You can read it. You should take note if Prabhupāda makes some comments for replying back. Take note.

Guest (1):" Oṁ gurave namaḥ. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda... (Hindi) " (break).

Prabhupāda: Make them all Kṛṣṇa conscious by distributing my books, literature. And both of you are capable. Youthful energy, sincere devotee, fully Kṛṣṇa conscious. Para-upakāra. Not to keep the poor human society in ignorance. Others may cheat for livelihood, but we are not going to do that. We have no problem for livelihood. Yato yato yāmi tato nṛsiṁhaḥ. What is that verse?

Morning Talk -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But if he's not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he may rise up to that position by endeavor. Then he will fall down. And I have given this example, Nixon and Indira Gandhi. This is factual. To come to take the post of prime minister, to become the president, is not easy job. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa, great hardship. Similarly, the Māyāvādīs, they also undergo severe austerities to become one with the Supreme, impersonalists. Any... I have given the... Karmī, jñānī, yogi, politicians, and everyone—everyone has got some aim. Many rich men, they commit suicide. So this is possi... This is the ultimate result of nondevotee. He may rise up by endeavor to certain position as he imagined, "This is the best position." Just like we are also trying to occupy the best position, to become associate of Kṛṣṇa, to live with devotees. We have got also some aim, and the nondevotees, they have also got aim. But the devotees will never fall down, while the nondevotee will fall down. And if devotee circumstantially, by chance, falls down—not like them-he'll be again picked up by Kṛṣṇa. This is the science, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. A devotee's position is certain. Now, take for example my position. For ordinary karmī to possess so many properties all over the world and so many other things, money and everything, if karmī had to do it, how much hardship he had to go. And actually they are doing. Is it possible for one's life to acquire so many?

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Everything will be shortage. That is nature's arrangement. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). They cannot make any plan successful without Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So long they'll insist upon this point, that "Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness we shall do everything successfully..." That is durāśā. As long as they persist on this, they'll remain rascals. Every plan will be failure. Durāśā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī. Nature, material nature, is against them. No plan will be allowed to be... Just trace out the history. Every plan has been unsuccessful, either Eastern, Western. Napoleon made plan, Hitler made plan, Gandhi made plan. So many rascals, they made plan. Everyone's plan, impersonalist, they are unsuccessful at the end. Gandhi was killed, Napoleon was dishonored, Mussolini was killed, Hitler nowhere... Take all these big, big...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Still they have not learned their lesson.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are rascals. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed. It has been unsuccessful many times. Still they'll do. When the sewer ditches will be complete? Sewer ditches?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The sewage line? They should be completed in a month. Before the Gurukula opens, it has to be finished.

Prabhupāda: (aside:) You can eat it immediately.

Room Conversation with Alice Coltrane -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Says, "Always chanting My glories, endeavoring with great determination, bowing down before Me, these great souls perpetually worship Me with devotion." Purport. "The mahātmā, or great soul, cannot be manufactured by rubber-stamping an ordinary man. His symptoms are described here. A mahātmā is always engaged in chanting the glories of the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa, the Personality of Godhead. He has no other business. He is always engaged in the glorification of the Lord. In other words, he is not an impersonalist. When the question of glorification is there, one has to glorify the Supreme Lord..."

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "...one has to glorify the Supreme Lord, praising His holy name, His eternal form, His transcendental qualities, and His uncommon pastimes. One has to glorify all these things. Therefore a mahātmā is attached to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. One who is attached to the impersonal feature of the Supreme Lord, the brahma-jyotir, is not described as mahātmā in the Bhagavad-gītā. He is described in a different way in the next verse. The mahātmā is always engaged in different activities of devotional service, as described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, hearing and chanting about Viṣṇu, not a demigod or human being. That is devotion: śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ, smaraṇam, and remembering Him. Such a mahātmā has firm determination to achieve at the ultimate end the association of the Supreme Lord in any one of the five transcendental rasas. To achieve that success, he engages all activities—mental, bodily and vocal, everything—in the service of the Supreme Lord, Śrī Kṛṣṇa. That is called full Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

In devotional service there are certain activities which are called determined, such as fasting on certain days, like the eleventh day of the moon, Ekādaśī, and on the appearance day of the Lord, etc. All these rules and regulations are offered by the great ācāryas for those who are actually interested in getting admission into the association of the Supreme Personality of Godhead in the transcendental world. The mahātmās, great souls, strictly observe all these rules and regulations, and therefore they are sure to achieve the desired result.

As described in the second verse of this chapter, this devotional service is not only easy, but it can be performed in a happy mood. One does not need to undergo any severe penance and austerity. He can live this life in devotional service, guided by an expert spiritual master, and in any position, either as a householder or a sannyāsī, or a brahmacārī; in any position and anywhere in the world, he can perform this devotional service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead and thus become actually mahātmā, a great soul.

Prabhupāda: So all instructions are there. If you read it carefully, you get. But don't manufacture in your own way. That will not be successful. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya.

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, I have no objection.

Jayādvaita: You've been speaking so strongly just now that I was sorry that I suggested that we stop. So now I'm glad that you're continuing. Flashlight?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Aprākṛta, transcendental. Whatever we discuss, that is on the transcendental platform, nothing to do with this material world. The Māyāvādī impersonalist, they cannot understand this. They think this is also material. Then? Read. You are going to read?

Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There is just one more point on that verse. He says there are some verses that say upaniṣada puruṣaḥ namo vedānta vedyāya kṛṣṇāya.(?) So Śrīla Baladeva Vidyābhūṣaṇa has raised a question that it says Kṛṣṇa is not seen by the Upaniṣads, but then there's some verses that say He is known by the Vedas, He is known by the Upaniṣads. He says it is proved that the Absolute is able to be known by Vedas, veda-gamyatvam kintu... Then he quotes other verse. It says sakalyena avedatvam, He cannot be known completely through Vedas, only through devotional service

Prabhupāda: Yes. When one is purified by Vedic knowledge, then mad-bhaktir labhate param. Then he is allowed entrance in devotional understanding. Bhaktyā śruta-gṛhītayā. There is a...? Eh? In Bhāgavatam?

Prabhupada Vigil -- November 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) Jaya Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now we will pay them our (indistinct) but we will go on watching. That we want. As long as you're watching them, we will (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: They haven't got (indistinct).

Bhakti-caru: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) (indistinct)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no. He's definitely impersonalist. But he's not very serious, caught in family life. He associates with these people. I mean his philosophy's Caitanya Mahāprabhu...

Brahmānanda: They want to see our films tonight. They want to see the film on New Vrindaban, "Spiritual Frontier." They'll show it tonight at 8:30. And they want kīrtana. Mr. Nārāyaṇa, he's very much wanting us to have kīrtana. He said, "That is the thing."