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Impersonalist (Conversations 1967 - 1974)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Hayagrīva: That's in the introduction to Srimad-Bhāgavatam. Yes, I remember that. All right. There's no sense in going over that. All right. What is the outcome of this now? Final outcome?

Prabhupāda: The outcome is that Sārvabhauma was impersonalist and Caitanya Mahāprabhu was Vaisnava. Then by argument, logic, and everything, that is shortly described here, Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya became a disciple of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and he became a great devotee. That is the outcome. And it was a great victory on the part of Caitanya Mahāprabhu because Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya was known as the most stubborn scholar of logic of that time and he became a devotee. By Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya's becoming a devotee of Lord Caitanya, practically He became victorious in His missionary activities because Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya was the learned scholar in the assembly of the King of Orissa. So the King of Orissa also became a devotee. And many other scholars and big men.

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Questions and Answers -- September 6, 1968, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That I explained. For ordinary neophyte devotees... This is the highest stage. The stage of the gopīs or the cowherd boys playing with Kṛṣṇa, oh, they are kṛta-punya-puñjāḥ. Many, many lives they have undergone many types of sacrifices, austerities, penances, and then they have come to that stage. That stage is not ordinary stage. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam Śukadeva Gosvāmī says, itthaṁ satāṁ brahma-sukhānubhūtya dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ para-daivatena, māyāśritānāṁ nara-dārakeṇa sākaṁ vijahruḥ kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ (SB 10.12.11). He is describing when Kṛṣṇa was playing with His cowherds boy. So he is describing that "These cowherds boy—who are they? They are living entities who have amassed volumes and volumes of pious activities." Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. "After many, many lives Just like bank balance increases, similarly, one who has increased the balance of pious activities for many, many thousands of lives, oh, such persons are now playing with Kṛṣṇa. They have taken the body of His cowherds boy, transcendental spiritual body, and just they are playing with Kṛṣṇa. And who is Kṛṣṇa?" Itthaṁ satāṁ brahma-sukhānubhūtya: "The great saints and sages who are trying to understand the Supreme Brahman, here is Kṛṣṇa. That Supreme Brahman is here, playing." Itthaṁ satāṁ brahma-sukhanubhutya dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ para-daivatena: "The impersonalist Brahman is... Because Kṛṣṇa's effulgence is impersonal Brahman, so here is He." And dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ: "Those who are devotees, those who have accepted Kṛṣṇa as the master, for them here is Kṛṣṇa." And māyāśritānāṁ nara-dārakeṇa: "And those who are materialistic—they simply think Kṛṣṇa is ordinary boy or man—He is also there. But who are these boys? They are playing with the same person who is Brahman, who is Bhagavān, or who is ordinary man, according to different calculation. But these boys who are playing with Him, they have accumulated many, many lives' heaps of pious activities." They are not ordinary men.

Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Prabhupāda: So far Hindu religion is concerned, it is a very broad thinking. The Hindu religion, Vedic religion, is divided into two kinds of philosophers. One kinds of philosopher is the impersonalist. They take the Absolute Truth as impersonal, all-pervading impersonal. And the another philosophers, they take that the Supreme Absolute Truth is person. The impersonal feature is one of the features of that person, but ultimately he is person. So without person there cannot be any question of love. Therefore the section who believes in person... Not believing, they know actually what He is, and there is method how to love that person. The example is given: just like the sun and the sunshine and the predominating Deity in the sun globe, similarly, one who comes to the light, he first of all sees the sunshine. That is impersonal. Then, if he goes further, if he is able to go to the sun planet, that is localized. And if he can enter into the sun planet and see the predominating deity there, then he is a person. So this is a vast science. People are too much engrossed with material activities. They do not try to understand actually what is the position of Absolute Truth, what is the position of the soul. Practically in the present day they are more or less animalistic. Just like animal does not know anything beyond eating, sleeping, mating and defending, similarly, the modern civilization is too much busy for increasing the method of eating and increasing the process of comfortable life or sleeping, and increasing the matter of, method of sexual life, or increasing the method of defense. So these things, are found even in the animals. They also eat, they also sleep, they also have sex life and they also defend in their own way. So human life is not limited within these four walls. He has to understand what he is, what is this world, what is this creation, what is God, how it is going on. But they are neglecting that fact. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness will give information to this department of knowledge.

Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Interviewer: And what of special foods and special drink?

Prabhupāda: Special food means Kṛṣṇa-prasāda. Because we have dedicated our life to Kṛṣṇa, we eat such things which Kṛṣṇa eats. The impersonalists, they have no idea of Kṛṣṇa, they have no idea of God, and how they can conceive that the God eats also? So we are not such rascal. We know that what God eats, and we offer such thing to God, or Kṛṣṇa, and we take after His eating. That is our special food.

Interviewer: Could you tell me the names of these special foods? How do you know what Kṛṣṇa eats and drinks, please?

Prabhupāda: As I have told you, that Bhagavad-gītā is the book of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like any department of knowledge, there are some books to know that departmental knowledge or science, similarly, to know Kṛṣṇa consciousness there are many books and especially Bhagavad-gītā. In this Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa says that "Anyone who gives Me fruits, vegetables, grains, milk, with great devotional love, I eat." Therefore we offer these things to Kṛṣṇa in different preparations, and we know He will eat. And that's all.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 11, 1969, New York:

Prabhupāda: Lotus is blessing. And that disc and club is for punishing. Viṣṇu has to see two ways because He's the Lord. So, as it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). Just like the state. State is meant for punishing the criminals and giving protection to the law-abiding citizen. Wherefrom this idea is taken? It is taken from Viṣṇu. Everything. Because He is the supreme maintainer. So everything is required for maintaining. So this gada, the club, and the disc is for punishing the disobedient, the demons, or those who are harassing devotees. To punish them the Viṣṇu-cakra is there. Just like Mahārāja Ambarīṣa, he was harassed by Durvāsā Muni, and Viṣṇu-cakra punished him sufficiently. Mahārāja Durvāsā... Mahārāja Ambarīṣa was a great king, but a great devotee at the same time. Because he was kṣatriya and householder, Durvāsā Muni, he was envious. Durvāsā Muni was brāhmaṇa and a great yogi. So he could not tolerate that a householder king... King is supposed to be dealing in politics, economics. Therefore, according to social position, he is lesser than the brāhmaṇa because they are simply engaged in the matter of transcendental advancement of life. But a devotee is above the brāhmaṇas. That is the position of devotee. Here, the highest qualitative position is to be situated in the modes of goodness or to acquire the qualities of brāhmaṇa, in this material world. Truthfulness, controlling the senses, controlling the mind, simplicity and knowledge, faith in God, there are so many qualifications which makes a person as recognized brāhmaṇa. But a devotee, never mind whether he's brāhmaṇa or a caṇḍāla, he automatically develop all these qualities. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā (SB 5.18.12). Anyone who has unflinching devotional faith in God, he has all the good qualities. I've several times narrated the story of that hunter. He was animal killer and he used to enjoy by killing the animal half. But when he became a devotee, he was not prepared to kill even an ant. Who taught him? Nobody taught him but he was simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. So if you actually making progress in devotional service, you are constantly in touch with the purest. Kṛṣṇa is the purest. Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhama pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). "You are the paraṁ brahma, Supreme Brahman." Brahman, every living entity is Brahman but He is paraṁ brahma, the leader of the Brahman. Just like the president is the first citizen of the state. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is also a living entity, but supreme living entity. Just like the first citizen. So similarly, every living entity is Brahman, but paraṁ brahma is one. That is Kṛṣṇa. And therefore in the Brahma-saṁhitā it is confirmed, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ krsnaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Kṛṣṇa is... Everyone īśvara, more or less controller. Lord Śiva, Lord Brahmā, Indra, Varuṇa, Vāyu, Candra, Sūrya. There are so many. They're all demigods. Say, almost God. But they are not Supreme God. Supreme God is one. Sometimes people who do not know the purpose of Vedas, they say, "The Hindus are worshiper of many gods." That is nonsense. Actually those who are followers of Vedas, they worship Kṛṣṇa, only Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu. Tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ. Ṛg mantra. Tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). What is the purpose of Vedas? To understand Kṛṣṇa. One who does not understand Kṛṣṇa, his Vedānta philosophy is nonsense. However you may advertise that "I am Vedāntist," is a pakka nonsense. Because he has not attained the perfection of Vedic knowledge. The perfection of Vedic knowledge is to know Kṛṣṇa, and that is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā: Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). After many, many births. Jñānavān. Jñānavān means Vedāntist. Not... They have made it, that Vedāntist... Vedāntist, Vaiṣṇavas, they are also Vedāntist, but it has become a common sense, a common affair that the impersonalists, they are called Vedāntists.

Room Conversation -- April 11, 1969, New York:

Devotee: Law and order.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Wherefrom the idea came to the human society unless it is there in the Absolute? How the idea comes? Therefore that law and order is Viṣṇu. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The idea of law and order came from Viṣṇu. How nicely explained. Janmādy asya. In two words, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Janma means creation, and ādi, ādi means first janma, then sthiti. Sthiti means staying, maintenance. And then dissolution. So three things. Yataḥ, from where these three things are happening. That means this world is being created from that source, it is being maintained by that source, and when it is annihilated it rests in that energy, the whole energy. Pralayaṁ yānti māmikam, Bhagavad-gītā. When everything is dissolved, the energy is absorbed by the energetic. So that is Absolute Truth. So Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam explains that Absolute Truth. Janmādy asya yata anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ (SB 1.1.1). In the Vedānta-sūtra it is simply said that "The Absolute Truth is that which is the fountainhead of everything." Now if fountainhead of everything, then what the Absolute Truth's nature shall be like? That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The first thing is that janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The factor, the Absolute Truth from which everything is emanating, so that emanation includes indirect and direct manifestation. What is that indirect and direct manifestation? The direct manifestation is the spiritual world and the indirect manifestation is this material world. Indirect manifestation means it is simply a shadow of the spiritual world. Just like in the Bible also it is said the man is made after God. So you have got two hands, one head, two leg. So the mental speculation is said that these devotees, they create God according to their own feature. Because I am two-handed, and therefore I create God with two hands, Kṛṣṇa. But actually, the fact is not that. Actually, because Kṛṣṇa has got two hands and we have got an imitation body of Kṛṣṇa, therefore we have got two hands. Because this is imitation. That we know everything, everyone. This body will not stay. Therefore it has got janma. Janma means birth or creation at a certain period, and it stays, say, for fifty years or hundred years. Then dissolved, dissolution. Therefore it is imitation. Just like if you create a doll, clay doll, very nice beautiful girl. But it will... It is imitation. It is shadow of the real beautiful girl. It is created at some time and... So reality is there in the spiritual world. Therefore it is called janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The idea comes from there, but the impersonalists, due to their intelligence being very meager, they think that the Absolute Truth is without any variety, impersonal or void.

Room Conversation -- April 11, 1969, New York:

Prabhupāda: But that frustration has no disappointment. (laughter) That is the beauty. Just like Lord Caitanya is manifesting that spiritual frustration. "Oh Kṛṣṇa, I could not see You." He's jumping on the sea in frustration. But that frustration is the highest perfection of love. Yes. Everything is there. But without inebriety. You are very intelligent boy. I thank you. Yes. Yes. There is frustration, but not this frustration. Yes. That frustration, I mean to say, enriches one's eagerness of love for Kṛṣṇa. Everything is there, but without inebriety. Everything is there. Yes. Now see, Viṣṇu? Of course, in Vaikuṇṭha-jagat there is no violence. But Viṣṇu is taking the symbol of violence. Otherwise what is the meaning of this disc and club? So when He wants to be violent, He comes here as Nṛsiṁha-mūrti. (laughter) And He sends some of His devotees to play violence. That is Hiraṇyakaśipu. Because there the devotees are so much in accord with Kṛṣṇa and Viṣṇu that there is no question of disagreement. But violence is when this disagree-ment, atheist. Therefore sometimes a devotee is deputed in this world to play as atheist, and Kṛṣṇa comes to kill him. To teach these people that "If you become atheist, then here is disc and club for you." But it is not possible to be displayed in the Vaikuṇṭha. Otherwise, if there is no the propensity of violence... Just like there is sometimes mock fight. A father is fighting in mock with a small child, and he has become defeated. But there is pleasure. So ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). The Lord is joyful. So there is joy in fighting also sometimes. So your question that everything is there, that is a fact. Everything is there. Otherwise if everything is not there, they cannot be manifested here because it is reflection. Just like in... Of course, this discovery is by the Vaiṣṇava, Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava. Just like the love between Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, it is called parakiya. They are not married husband and wife. But Rādhārāṇī appears to be wife of some other gentleman. But Kṛṣṇa, from childhood, They were friends. So Radhārāṇī could not forget Kṛṣṇa. She used to come to Kṛṣṇa and stand like that. That's all. And He was playing. Kiśora-Kiśorī, They were boy and girl. But there is no inebriety. Just like here the boy and girls mix and there are so many abominable things. Distressful, which is binding their material bondage. So that friendship between boy and girl is there, but without inebriety. Kṛṣṇa had so many gopīs, girlfriend, but there was no contraceptive pills. (laughter) That is the beauty. Here, the so-called love is lust. And there, that is the highest. The same thing, obverted, perverted reflection. Just like in the original tree the topmost part has come down to the down. Similarly, in the spiritual world the highest, topmost level of love, parakiya... Parakiya means love not by marriage life, by friendship. That is there. But there is no such inebriety. It is pure. So perverted means the topmost thing has come down to the lowest. Here, this parakiya, loving other's wife or other's husband, is most abominable, adultery. Not allowed by society, not allowed by the state. But tendency is there. Even one is married, he wants to love another's wife. Or if the girl married (s)he wants to love another husband. Why? That is there. But without inebriety. That is the beauty. So everything is there, but here, that thing is reflected, pervertedly. Therefore misunderstood. There is so many other corollaries. You see? But you must know everything, that without being in the Absolute Truth there cannot be relative manifestation. This world is relative manifestation. So these things are not to be understood in the beginning, but as the questions came we discussed something. But you must know, as the Vedānta-sūtra says, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Everything is emanated from that Absolute Truth. That is the fountainhead of everything. We cannot manufacture anything. It is not possible. But this is shadow and that is reality. And in the shadow... Just like photograph. You find that everything in detail of your beautiful face in the photograph, but that is not reality. That's all. So you'll find everything in details, all... Or you can understand actual photograph, actual idea, actual notion of the spiritual world by scrutinizingly studying this material world. The impersonalists, they think that in the material varieties there are so many abominable inebrieties, therefore in the spiritual world all these things should be minus, void.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 11, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: Under all circumstances?

Prabhupāda: Yes, all, all circumstances, but it is the question of my appreciation, or my realization. That will depend on my purity. Otherwise this Kṛṣṇa sound and Kṛṣṇa, non-different. Therefore if we vibrate sound Kṛṣṇa, then I am immediately in contact with Kṛṣṇa, and if Kṛṣṇa is whole spirit, then immediately I become spiritualized. Just like if you touch electricity, immediately you're electrified. And the more you become electrified, more you become Kṛṣṇized. Kṛṣṇized. So when you are fully Kṛṣṇized, then you are in the Kṛṣṇa platform. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9), then fully Kṛṣṇized, no more comes back to this material existence. He remains with Kṛṣṇa. The impersonalists shall say merging. That is less intelligence. Merging does not mean losing individuality. Just like a green bird enters a green tree; it appears merging, but the bird has not lost his individuality. There is individuality. Similarly Kṛṣṇa says in the Fourth Chapter, no, Second Chapter that I, you, adyam(?), I and all these people who have assembled; it is not that they did not exist previously neither it is that they'll not exist. That means I, you, and all these persons, they were individual in the past. At the present we see it practically, and in future they'll remain individuals. And individually we are that, in our present existence, everyone of us individual. You have got your individual views, I have got my individual views. We agree on common platform, that is different thing, but we are individual. That is our nature. Therefore there is disagreement sometimes. So the individuality is never lost. But our proposition, bhakti-mārga, is to keep individuality and agree with you.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So here is Kṛṣṇa. All-attractive. You now find out... You can say, "Why I shall accept Kṛṣṇa?" You can say like that. Your first question is the unifying agent. I say here is Kṛṣṇa. Now we can analyze, "Why you shall accept Kṛṣṇa?" Then I shall reply, "Why you shall not?" What do you want, expect from the Supreme or the unifying, what do you expect? Everything is there in Kṛṣṇa. Opulence-Kṛṣṇa. Beauty-Kṛṣṇa. Wisdom-Kṛṣṇa. Renunciation-Kṛṣṇa. Strength-Kṛṣṇa. Everything in Kṛṣṇa. Whatever you want you'll find in Kṛṣṇa. That is the unifying center. That I will convince you. He is the unifying center actually. And Bhagavad-gītā it is said, mama vartmānuvartante manuṣyāḥ partha sarvaśaḥ. "Everyone is trying to come to Me. Everyone is trying to come to Me." Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante (BG 4.11). "But he's realizing Me in My different phases. But everyone is trying." So so far unifying religion is concerned there are three groups: impersonalists, personalists, and localized. Some are trying to understand the Absolute Truth in impersonal way. Some are... The yogis, the mental speculators, they are trying to understand the Absolute in impersonal, without any personal form. And the yogis, they are trying to find out Kṛṣṇa within their heart, meditation. And some are trying to find out the Absolute Truth in person by reciprocating love. So all these things are in Kṛṣṇa. And Bhāgavata says after explanation of that verse that it is the only business of human being to find out the Absolute Truth. Now, the next verse, the Absolute Truth is explained, analyzed, vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam (SB 1.2.11). Now, Absolute Truth is always one. There is no... Absolute Truth cannot be two. Then it is relative truth. Absolute Truth means one.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Jehovah.

Allen Ginsberg: They had Jehovah, but they had a prohibition of pronouncing the highest names. 'Cause they felt that God was imageless, and therefore should not be pronounced or painted. My background is I guess what would be impersonalist.

Hayagrīva: The Jews are personalist.

Allen Ginsberg: Well, what are they? Impersonalists or personalists?

Lady: Impersonalists. They believe in just the Absolute. That's all.

Prabhupāda: That was the difference in Jesus Christ. He was a personalist.

Devotee: Hasidics are personal.

Allen Ginsberg: Yes. They put their devotion into the rabbi or the guru. The ancient Hebrew... I guess you must know about that. The ancient Hebrew teaching was that the name of God should never be pronounced.

Prabhupāda: Now we come to know...

Allen Ginsberg: J-H-V-H.

Prabhupāda: Anyway why God's name...

Allen Ginsberg: Pictures should not be made. Pictures should not be made. Because it would limit God to human conception.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. That is in Muhammadan. That means God is not material. That is the idea. Because here the idea is when I make something image or picture, that is material. So there is a prohibition of accepting God as material. But if you go to a higher stage, then you'll understand that if God is everything then there is no material. That is Vaiṣṇava philosophy. If God is everything, then where is material? He is spiritual. Material means when you cannot understand God. That is material. Everything is sky. When it is covered by cloud we call it is cloudy. Similarly, cloud has no existence. It comes only to cover sometimes, but the sky is eternal. Similarly, God is eternal. When you are covered by some māyā, you cannot see, you cannot understand God, that is material. So any philosophy which does not help understanding God, that is material. That is material. Otherwise, there is no material. Where is material if God is everything? Sarvam khalv idam brahma. You see?

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 13, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: So what tradition is he in, actually?

Prabhupāda: He is impersonalist on the whole. He is impersonalist, whole, and he has got some Vaiṣṇava thought. That's all, perverted thoughts. Perverted thoughts.

Allen Ginsberg: So who is the most perfect of the Vaiṣṇava poets? That would be Mīrā?

Guest (1): Mīrā was a devotee. She was a Vaiṣṇava.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Devotee means...

Guest (1): Vaiṣṇava. She was, Mīrā, Kṛṣṇa devotee. Oh, her songs has called me.

Allen Ginsberg: Have you used her songs here at all?

Prabhupāda: Yes, in India it is very popular, Mīrā's song. Mostly they are written in Hindi, and some of them have been interpolated. But Mīrā was a devotee. She saw Rūpa Gosvāmī, a contemporary. She has written many poetry about Lord Caitanya.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 13, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: What position does Anandamayi Ma have now?

Prabhupāda: She is also impersonalist.

Allen Ginsberg: She is impersonalist

Prabhupāda: She is not a devotee. There are many impersonalists. They take advantage of... They say, "Caitanya's patha, Śaṅkara's maṭha," that "Follow the principle of Caitanya but ultimately take the conclusion of Śaṅkara." That means...

Allen Ginsberg: Śiva.

Prabhupāda: No. Śaṅkarācārya.

Allen Ginsberg: Aha. What was the conclusion of Śaṅkarācārya?

Prabhupāda: Śaṅkarācārya's conclusion was to defeat Buddhism. They do not know it, but actually, when there was too much animal-killing and people became almost atheist under the shadow of Vedic rituals, Lord Buddha appeared. He wanted to stop men from the sinful activities of killing unnecessarily under the plea of Vedas. So he invented that ahiṁsa, nonviolence. And... Because people will give evidence, "Oh, in the Vedas there is..." They are not following, actually, the Vedic rituals, but just like crooked lawyers take advantage of law books, similarly... Therefore, Lord Buddha said that "I do not follow Vedic rituals. I have nothing to do with Vedas. It is my own formula." So Jayadeva has written one prayer because the Vaiṣṇavas can understand how God is playing. So he writes, nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātaṁ: "My dear Lord, now You have appeared as Lord Buddha. You are decrying the Vedic rituals." Śruti-jātaṁ. Śruti-jātaṁ means Vedic. Why? Sadaya-hṛdaya-darṣita-paśu-ghātam: "You are so much compassionate to see poor animals being killed unnecessarily." Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare: "All glories to Jagadīśa. You have now assumed the form of Lord Buddha, and You are playing in pastimes." So Lord Buddha is accepted as incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. In Bhāgavata also it is stated. He is accepted as the tenth incarnation.

Discussion with BTG Staff -- December 24, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is composed of four different stages. The first stage is to understand the relationship with Godhead, or Kṛṣṇa. Because the conditioned souls at the present moment, they have forgotten self. They have forgotten their relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Actually the relationship is there, eternal, but under the influence of māyā he is thinking that "I am something of this material world," identifying himself with this body. So we have to awake them from that illusory existence, what he is not. The whole mistake of the modern status of life... I don't say modern civilization. This is coming up since the creation of this material world. Sometimes it is in greater degree and sometimes in lesser degree. In Satya-yuga the same condition, but in lesser degree. But in Kali-yuga the condition is in greater degree. So the first business is to awake the conditioned souls from their illusory position, that he is thinking, "I am this body and anything in relationship with this body is very important." Janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). This is illusion. We speak of illusion, māyā. This is illusion, that "I am this body and anything in relation of this body..." I have got special relationship with certain woman, so I think, "She is my wife. I cannot do without her." Or another woman from whom I have taken birth, "She is my mother." Similarly father, similarly sons. In this way, country, society, at the most, humanity. That's all. But all these things are illusion because they are in bodily relationship. Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhātuke sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). Those who are passing on on this illusory condition of life, they are compared with the cows and the asses. So our first business is to wake up the general mass of people from this illusory condition of life. So Back to Godhead is specially meant for that purpose. We are pushing our Back to Godhead to the general mass of people to the first condition, first status of enlightenment. And then those who are becoming enlightened, coming forward, "Swamiji, or the society, please make me a member. Please initiate me," he is coming forward, understanding his position. So that is second stage, to train him how to awaken his, that dormant love of God. That is another stage, training. Sambandha abhidheya. Then, when he is actually in love of Godhead, then he can understand the higher status of loving exchange between Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa and the Vṛndāvana. This is third, third stage, yes. And the fourth stage is paramahaṁsa stage, who is always enjoying. Santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti... When one is completely merged in the ocean of love of Godhead, he will relish in any condition of life Kṛṣṇa, present. Kṛṣṇa present means, Kṛṣṇa present, His name present, His form present, His līlā present, His paraphernalia present. Everything. Kṛṣṇa is not alone. We are not impersonalist. As soon as we say, "Kṛṣṇa," Kṛṣṇa means with His name, fame, opulence, entourage, pastime, etc.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Himāvatī: But at first they are satisfied, aren't they, that they've achieved their goal?

Prabhupāda: Aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ (SB 10.2.32). They do not know. They are after brahmaṇanda, transcendental pleasure, but they do not know what is actually transcendental pleasure, impersonalists. Therefore their intelligence is not clean. They go to the spiritual kingdom, transcendental platform, but they do not that know, how real transcendental pleasure can be achieved. Therefore their knowledge is not perfect.

Revatīnandana: When they want to come back, is it very easy for them to come back or have they got to...?

Prabhupāda: No, they automatically come back because he is hankering after varieties. So that variety is not there, so he is attracted again in the material world. Just like so many sannyāsīs. Take Vivekananda. He wanted to lecture on Vedānta, which is liberation. He came again back to the hospitalizing and philanthropic work because he could not find the variety of pleasure in Vedānta. Of course, he was not very much advanced. There are many. There is a... Sannyāsī is here. he's a Kārpātrī. He is very learned and other... He was formerly speaking on Vedānta and other... Now he is in politics and cow protection. You see? There are many.

Room Conversation -- December 21, 1970, Surat:

Girirāja: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes. When you say, "O my Lord, You have no leg, You have no hand, You have no eyes," that means, "You are blind, You are lame, You are headless," (laughter) "You have no sense"—"You are nonsense." So this is prayer. This is their prayer. So we have to fight vigorously with these rascal impersonalists and voidists. When I was talking, somebody left the meeting in the morning. Yes. That means he could not tolerate (laughs) all these designations-rascal, miscreants, lowest of the mankind. Yes.

Devotee (2): In this mantra of Śrī Upaniṣad, Mantra Twelve,

andhaṁ tamaḥ praviśanti
ye 'sambhūtim upāsate
tato bhūya iva te tamo
ya u sambhūtyāṁ ratāḥ

It says, "Those engaged in worship of the demigods enter the darkest region of ignorance, and still more do the worshipers of the Absolute." But this means that the impersonalists, "those who are worshiping Absolute"?

Room Conversation -- December 21, 1970, Surat:

Devotee (2): Then why is it seen that they are making spiritual advancement?

Prabhupāda: No, they don't make any spiritual advancement. They come down. Don't you see this impersonalist, Vivekananda? He took sannyāsa; he came to hospital-making, came back. They are not advancing. They are coming back, falling down. While they have no engagement in devotional service, they say, "Oh, why you are finding God anywhere? Here is God, daridra-nārāyaṇa, these poor men." That's it. That is not advancement. They are coming down. Now, they come down and they defame Nārāyaṇa, that "Nārāyaṇa has become daridra." He has found Nārāyaṇa is daridra.

Revatinandana: What is that word?

Prabhupāda: Daridra. Daridra means poor, poor. Daridra-nārāyaṇa. This is manufactured word by Vivekananda. They are so proud that "When a beggar comes at your door, you should treat him as Nārāyaṇa, daridra." These are simply high-sounding words. What they are doing actually for the daridras?

Room Conversation -- December 21, 1970, Surat:

Prabhupāda: Trance is... The actual meditation means concentrate one's mind on Viṣṇu form. That is real meditation. But now they have, the impersonalists and voidists, they have manufactured so many things, but actual meditation means...

Guest (3): Transcendental meditation. Trans...?

Prabhupāda: Transcendental meditation. The transcendental meditation means to think of Lord Viṣṇu.

Guest (3): These books will be available where?

Prabhupāda: These books are... Now we have some custom difficulty. Books are lying in the port, but we have some custom clearance permission difficulty. Just this morning we have received news from Delhi. Now everything is complete. So now we shall get the books, say, within a fortnight.

Guest (3): Within a fortnight.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 11, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Therefore it should be concluded that the so-called scientists, astronomers, they are all imperfect, and they are passing off the scientists as learned. So you can challenge them, "What is the guarantee that your knowledge is perfect?" Actually it is not. They do not know how the stars are moving. They are always imperfect. Simply putting some theories. They say all this, Darwin's theory and this theory, that theory. They are simply speculating on imperfect senses, and therefore they're cheating, because the conditioned soul has got a tendency to cheat others. If one can cheat others, he thinks himself as very intelligent. The conditioned souls, they commit mistake, they are illusioned, they cheat, and their senses are imperfect. This is the, the four condition. Therefore, if we receive knowledge from the conditioned soul, there is no possibility of getting perfect knowledge. If by nature you are cheater, then how I can expect fair dealings? It is to be understood that we cannot have any fair dealings with this conditioned soul. And he'll protest.

The whole world is full of conditioned living entities. They're conditioned. Conditioned means under the control of the material nature. Guṇaiḥ karmāṇi. There are different types of conditioned souls. Some of them are good conditioned soul, some of them are passionate conditioned soul, some of them are rascal conditioned soul. So good conditioned soul means that, er, "(indistinct) that I have become very much learned, I have studied so many books, so now I am perfect." There is little goodness, because he has studied, he, he has labored, but still he's conditioned soul, because he has no perfect vision. Vimukta-māninaḥ. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam they have been described as vimukta-māninaḥ, that "I have become now liberated, māninaḥ." Self-complacent, thinking that "I have become now liberated. Now I become Nārāyaṇa, God." These Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, they address among themselves as namaḥ nārāyaṇa. That means each one of them has become as good as Nārāyaṇa, because Nārāyaṇa is mukta. Nārāyaṇa paraḥ. Śaṅkarācārya says paraḥ. Paraḥ means liberated. Paraḥ and aparaḥ. Aparaḥ means conditioned. So nārāyaṇa paraḥ, avyaktāt. Nārāyaṇa is transcendental to this cosmic manifestation. He's above. So the Māyāvādī philosopher, they think that "I have become now a liberated, as good as Nārāyaṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead." But Bhāgavata says, "No. You are simply thinking like that. You are rascal." Bhāgavata challenges: "You are thinking that you have become now liberated, but you are a rascal." The Bhāgavata, Vyāsadeva is very learned, but he says "rascal," but in a very sweet language. (laughter). Vimukta māninaḥ. Māninaḥ: "You are contemplating." Why? Tvayy asta, ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas (SB 10.2.32). Our test is there. "I am liberated. I am Nārāyaṇa." Why? "How you call me rascal?" Yes, we have got a test: ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. Tvayy asta-bhāvād. Still they have not reached the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Simply impersonal idea, and self-complacent that "I have become now Nārāyaṇa." So this kind of knowledge is aviśuddha, impure, impure knowledge, because the test is, unless one comes to the point of understanding the Personality of Godhead, the knowledge is imperfect. So they are impersonalists, and falsely thinking themselves as Nārāyaṇa. Therefore we can immediately test that "Here is a rascal." Vimukta-māninas tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. "No. We have undergone so much austerities, penances. Whole life I remain brahmacārī, then I took sannyāsa. I have followed the rules and regulations very strictly, and still I am rascal?" Yes, you are rascal. (aside:) Don't make sound. Silently. "Still I am rascal?" Yes. You are rascal. "Why?" Āruhya kṛcchreṇa: because the symptoms are there that you are a rascal.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 15, 1972, Madras:

Prabhupāda: We don't say whatever you want. You enjoy. Gratify your senses as much as you like.

Mālatī: Prabhupāda? What class of impersonalists are worshiping the Puruṣa-sūkta?

Prabhupāda: Hum?

Mālatī: What class of impersonalists are worshiping the universal form?

Prabhupāda: Well, universal form is not impersonal. That is personal. That is also manifestation of Kṛṣṇa.

Mālatī: But you say that... In one of your purports you are saying that the impersonalists are worshiping the universal form.

Prabhupāda: They are advised.

Śyāmasundara: Ah, advised to worship.

Mālatī: They are advised to worship.

Prabhupāda: Nobody is advised to... There is no worship for impersonalists, there is no...

Mālatī: Oh. (end)

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1972, Sydney:

Devotee (1): So he hasn't got to pay next time.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Next time he may be getting chance. Because he was at heart afraid of God. Because sometimes he was, "Swamiji, you pray for me to God." He told me that. At heart he was. But because he is impersonalist and mundane scholar, he was writing all nonsense.

Śyāmasundara: There's a whole class of scholars now called literary critics who simply take one book, or not even a scripture but any mundane book, and they spend their whole lives making comments what this must mean, what that must mean, "This is my opinion," "this is my thesis."

Prabhupāda: Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed.

Śyāmasundara: That really is chewing the chewed.

Prabhupāda: That is chewing the chewed.

Śyāmasundara: One book called Moby Dick...

Prabhupāda: That is called scholar. "Oh, he is a big scholar."

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 25, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Just like Dr. Radhakrishnan. He has explained this verse... When Kṛṣṇa says man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, he comments, "It is not to the person Kṛṣṇa." Just see. Kṛṣṇa says man-manā, "Always think of Me." And he, out of his so-called nonsense scholarship, he says, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa." (Hindi)

Guest (1) Indian man: He's impersonalist. I read that Bhagavad-gītā in school.

Prabhupāda: He's a nonsense. He's a nonsense. Now he's suffering. I saw him last year in Madras. He has lost his brain. He's suffering now. You cannot ask him whether he's hungry or whether he wants some... Only his daughter is attending and here he cannot understand who is standing before him. He cannot speak. Like that. (Hindi) He has committed so much offenses under the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi for some minutes) ...very meritorious. I think you cannot understand Hindi.

Devotee: He speaks English.

Prabhupāda: Ah. So you can understand English then. So (Sanskrit). Duṣkṛtinaḥ means... kṛtiḥ means meritorious, very meritorious. But duṣkṛtiḥ. Whatever merit he has got... Nowadays at the present moment the civilization is so mad that everyone as human being... Any human being he has got some merit because he is not cat and dog. He's a man. As a man he has got brain, better than the cats and dogs. That's a fact. And actually they're doing so many things. Just like this picture. It is a very meritorious workmanship. So everyone can do some meritorious workmanship.

Room Conversations with Sannyasis -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:

Pañcadraviḍa: I heard something in reference to that. You wrote one of the devotees in Calcutta. You wrote... He came to Bombay, Bhavānanda, and he said, and he had signed a letter something like, "I pray that I may be engaged in the service of my Guru Mahārāja." And you wrote back: "We are personalists to the letter, so that when we say Guru Mahārāja we always say name, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, or Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī. We don't just leave it in, as vague Guru Mahārāja. So we were singing, jaya prabhupāda jaya gurudeva, and he was saying, "Well that is impersonalist."

Acyutānanda: Also he says "Nitāi-gaura haribol! That is also, that's māyā." So, what is that?

Pañcadraviḍa: And so he was saying that all these bhajanas, they are, they are not bonafide, because they are, have...

Prabhupāda: He said: "Gaura haribol! is not bona fide?" He said, bona fide?

Devotee: Oh, not that, he was saying jaya gurudeva, jaya prabhupāda, that is not good.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee: I said, was saying, that is not good, jaya gurudeva, because it does not say who, it just says gurudeva. It could be any gurudeva. So he was criticizing that.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1973, Los Angeles:

Devotee: We are trespassing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why shall I come to your country. I've come to Kṛṣṇa's country.

Śukadeva: Prabhupāda, there are many impersonalists in Seattle. We have many universities and I'd like to go there and try and defeat them. But sometimes I forget, I cannot remember the scriptures, so what would be the best clue to always defeat them?

Prabhupāda: Well, if you understand the philosophy without scripture, you can convince them. You can give so many examples.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The weather is getting worse, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Karandhara: It will get worse when you leave, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: When I will... It will get better, as soon as I go away. (devotees sigh)

Karandhara: No. No.

Prabhupāda: It will get..., that is natural. It will not stay. But I'm not going out for this weather, don't misunderstand me. My physicians asked me, therefore... I'm accustomed to this... (end)

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: You see how nicely God has created this flower. How nice artist he is, how he has put the color exactly to the same point. So there is no hand? This is foolishness. It is going on. There is hand of God, but how His hand is working we do not know. That is explained in the Vedas: parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). He has got so subtle power that it is working, but we are seeing that it is automatically being done. But He's working. He's working. Just like we work. To paint one flower, we require a brush, color and so many things. Similarly He also requires. But His requirement are supplied so quickly that we see, "It is being automatically done." That is the... Because He's so perfect and unlimited that His working capacity we cannot follow. These are explained in the Upaniṣads, that God has no leg, but He can go so fast that nobody can compete with Him. These are the statements the Upaniṣads, that He goes so fast that nobody can compete with Him, nobody can go with Him. That is God's energy. So when it is said, "God has no leg," that means He has no this imperfect leg. He has go..., He has got so perfect leg that nobody can walk with Him. This is the idea. Not that God has no leg. He has got leg, but not this rascal leg. After walking three miles, that's all, finished. (laughter) Not like that. Not like that. Paśyaty acakṣuḥ. He sees, but he has no eyes. These are the statements in the Vedas. He has no eyes... Just like we have got eyes, but we cannot see beyond this wall. But He can see everyone's heart, what he is thinking, what he is doing, everything. You cannot hide anything from His seeing. Paśyati. That is, that is His seeing. Paśyaty acakṣuḥ. As soon as we hear something "seeing," immediately understand the relative term that one must have eyes to see. Then when the Vedas says acakṣuḥ, immediately warns that "Don't think God has got eyes like you." Because as soon as we think of eyes, we think of our eyes. We cannot think that there can be eyes which can penetrate everywhere. We cannot think of that. And therefore they become impersonalists. Because we rascals, when we think of God's personality, we think of our personality. "So we are imperfect. Therefore, how God can be person? He must be just opposite." Imperfect knowledge. They cannot think, these impersonalists, that God is person but all His bodily construction is perfect, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). That Him they cannot think. That means poor fund of knowledge. The impersonalist cannot think that having eyes, how one can see everything all at a time, past, present and future. But that is impossible by us because we have got imperfect eyes. Therefore they conclude, "No eyes. He must be without eyes." Imperfect knowledge.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Reporter: But all these ācāryas interpret in different, different ways.

Prabhupāda: No. No.

Reporter: No?

Prabhupāda: On the principle, they never... Just like Śaṅkarācārya and Rāmānujācārya. He's impersonalist, personalist, but both of them accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You'll find from their notes, comments on Bhagavad-gītā. Śaṅkarācārya, although he is impersonalist, he says nārāyaṇaḥ paraḥ avyaktāt: Nārāyaṇa is beyond this cosmic manifestation; He's transcendental. That means he says He's person. Nārāyaṇa, as soon as Nārāyaṇa, the Personality of Godhead. So we have nothing to touch in the spiritual understanding. He's talking of the material understanding. His philosophy, he started the philosophy, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā.

Reporter: Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā.

Prabhupāda: So he wanted to stop these material activities. Jagan mithyā. Śaṅkarācārya never advocated for nationalism, for starting schools or college, hospital... Never. Why? Why should he do? If we say jagan mithyā, then why should we bother all these things?

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Knower, knowledge and the object. The object is Kṛṣṇa and you are knower, or trying to know. And the process is bhakti. That's all. If you want to understand Kṛṣṇa, then you have to adopt the process of bhakti. No other process. It is clearly stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). No other process. No speculative philosophy or meditation. It is not possible. So bhakti is the process, you are the knower, and Kṛṣṇa is knowable. That's all. (break) ...vādī, impersonalists, they say ultimately the knower, knowable and the known becomes one. That is their philosophy. Monists. There is no more knower, no knowable, the knower... Simply knowledge. They say simply knowledge. Oneness.

Yogeśvara: You quoted... In the course of your lecture this morning, you quoted that verse from the Tenth Chapter, dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ tam. When that knowledge comes, the devotee is qualified by some degree of advancement?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The more he's qualified, the direction comes from Kṛṣṇa.

Yogeśvara: And what is the... What form does that direction take?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yogeśvara: And what form does that direction take?

Prabhupāda: In whichever way. The real direction is that he may come back to home, back to Godhead after giving up this body.

Room Conversation with British Man -- August 31, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Pradyumna: "The Lord's descent from His transcendental abode is already explained in the 6th verse. One who can understand the truth of the appearance of the Personality of Godhead is already liberated from material bondage, and therefore he returns to the kingdom of God immediately after quitting this present material body. Such liberation of the living entity from material bondage is not at all easy. The impersonalists and the yogis attain liberation only after much trouble and many, many births. Even then, the liberation they achieve—merging into the impersonal brahma-jyotir of the Lord—is only partial, and there is the risk of returning again to this material world. But the devotee, simply by understanding the transcendental nature of the body and activities of the Lord, attains the abode of the Lord after ending this body and does not run the risk of returning again to this material world. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is stated that the Lord has many, many forms and incarnations: advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam (Bs. 5.33). Although there are many transcendental forms of the Lord, they are still one and the same Supreme Personality of Godhead. One has to understand this fact with conviction, although it is incomprehensible to mundane scholars and empiric philosophers. As stated in the Vedas: eko devo nitya-līlānurakto bhakta-vyāpī hṛdy antarātmā. 'The one Supreme Personality of Godhead is eternally engaged in many, many transcendental forms in relationships with His unalloyed devotees.' This Vedic version is confirmed in this verse of the Gītā personally by the Lord. He who accepts this truth on the strength of the authority of the Vedas and of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and who does not waste time in philosophical speculations attains the highest perfectional stage of liberation. Simply by accepting this truth on faith, one can, without a doubt, attain liberation."

Guest (1): Yes, I understood all that. Also, whilst listening, I could quite see that you gain a freedom through grace, and don't have to come back here again, and then I thought that you personally must have come back here because you wanted to. Because you had a job to do perhaps. Well, obviously—not perhaps.

Prabhupāda: Come back?

Pradyumna: He said that you must have come back here because you had a job to do.

Guest (1): You see you, if you were freed in your previous time and did not have to come back, it does occur to me that you have come back because you have a job to do.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also, just like, Kṛṣṇa comes. Similarly Kṛṣṇa's son, God's son, sometimes He comes. Sometimes Kṛṣṇa's great devotee, servant, he comes because the spiritual enlightenment to the fallen souls, that is required. So in the human society, when the living entity gets the chance of having this human form of life, he has got the facility to understand his position, how to go back to home, back to Godhead. So that facility is offered by God, by Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, we have got these books. We have got spiritual master, we have got ācāryas. Just to enlighten these fallen souls to go back to home, back to Godhead.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, Dr. Suneson -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: He was a little attached to Buddhism?

Paramahaṁsa: Yes, like Śaṅkarācārya, remember, he was...

Prabhupāda: Impersonalist.

Paramahaṁsa: Yes. He was mentioning to you that he thought Śaṅkara's teachings were much more simpler, much more understandable, he said. Than, attractive, he said, than Caitanya Mahāprabhu's. This was his...

Prabhupāda: What is your... (break)

Professor: I do not find Śaṅkara... Well, it's too abstract and it's...

Prabhupāda: Yes, right you are. It is round.

Professor: It's a question of...

Prabhupāda: ...about way.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, Dr. Suneson -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Prakṣepātmikā.

Pradyumna: "...śakti, the power to throw the living entity in the ocean of material existence, and āvaraṇātmikā-śakti, the power to cover the knowledge of the living entity. The function of the āvaraṇātmikā-śakti is explained the Bhagavad-gītā by the word: māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. Why the daivī-māyā, or illusory energy of Kṛṣṇa takes away the knowledge of the Māyāvādī philosophers is also explained in Bhagavad-gītā by the use of the words āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ, which refer to a person who does not agree to the existence of the Lord. The Māyāvādīs, who are not in agreement with the existence of the Lord, can be classed in two groups, exemplified by the impersonalists Śaṅkarites of Vārāṇasī and the Buddhists of Saranātha. Both of them are Māyāvādīs, and Kṛṣṇa takes away their knowledge due to their atheistic philosophies. Neither of them agree to accept the existence of a personal God. The Buddhist philosophers clearly deny, clearly deny both the soul and God, and although the Śaṅkarites do not openly deny God, they say that the Absolute is nirākāra, or formless. Thus both of them are aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ (SB 10.2.32), or imperfect and unclean in their knowledge and intelligence."

Prabhupāda: What do you think?

Professor: That's... Of course, in the introduction to Śaṅkara's commentary to Bhagavad-gītā, he does, it seems, if it is for him, which is that...

Prabhupāda: He accepts Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Professor: Yes, Kṛṣṇa, yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Ambassador: Yes, yes. Mostly it was Vivekananda's explanation.

Prabhupāda: Vivekananda did not know anything about bhakti.

Ambassador: No, I mean he just, literally, it's not bhakti at all. Yes, it is...

Prabhupāda: Neither Vivekananda nor any swami. That is the regrettable fact. They, actually... Even Dr. Radhakrishnan, he could not present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. You see? He's impersonalist, and he presented in a different way, and now Professor, Dr. Pirindher...?

Haṁsadūta: Philinder.

Śrutakīrti: Dillinger.

Prabhupāda: He said, he came to see me that "Now we have rejected Dr. Radhakrishnan."

Ambassador: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because everyone has speculated in his own way. Therefore we have presented Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. And if you have got time, we can read some of the portions, how we have presented as it is. So people are liking this As It Is. Otherwise, Bhagavad-gītā is well-known in the western country, all over Europe. But because it was not presented as it is, there was not a single devotee of Kṛṣṇa. You find out, the whole history. Bhagavad-gītā is meant for making the reader a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Is it not?

Ambassador: That's true.

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhajanti. Bhajanti means "engaged in devotional service." Bhaja sevāyām. Bhaj-dhātu, this verb, is meant for rendering service. Bhaj-dhātu, kti, bhakti. So bhakta. Bhakti, bhakta and Bhagavān. So these are the mahātmās. But these mahātmās, these bhakta-mahātmās... Actually, mahātmā is bhakta-mahātmā. But there are others, mahātmās; they are also called mahātmās, but they are not mentioned in the Bhāgavata. They have been mentioned anye. Anye means others. Is that verse there? Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha (BG 9.13)? No. Anye? Anye means others. The impersonalists, they are also sometimes called mahātmā. But the mahātmā who is kṛṣṇa-bhakta, that is very rare. That is described in the Bhāgavata, sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. There are mahātmās, but the mahātmā who is the devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he is very rare. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. Jñānīs they are also mahātmās, speculating what is the Absolute Truth. They are also called mahātmā. But this mahātmā, bhajanty ananya-manasaḥ, without any deviation, this mahātmā is very rare. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate. This prapadya... (Aside) Oh, why you are? You can keep it closed.

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ahhh!

Devotee: ...bhakta-gaṇe.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Impersonalist boys... (break) ...who are... (break) Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: What is life cannot be proved by experiments. So it is not necessary to talk about life now.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Grapes are sour. (devotees laugh) The jackal's philosophy. The jackal came in the orchard of grapes and tried to take some grapes. He jumped many times, and when he failed, "Oh, there is no necessity, it is sour." It is jackal's philosophy. Sly fox.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say that ultimately there may be no difference...

Prabhupāda: It is Māyāvāda, Māyāvāda. Māyāvāda says brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. This world is false. (break) ...so what... (break) ...prepared it, so he is the cause of this construction of the bench. How can you say there is no cause?

Hṛdayānanda: Then they would say...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Hṛdayānanda: They would say, "If everything has a cause..."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, I have already explained. What is not God? That is already explained. Anything you bring, He is, God is there. Without God, nothing can exist. So why this or that? Anything, that is God. But He's absolute. His love and His enmity, that is the same thing. We distinguish, here in this material world, "This is love and this is animosity." But God's animosity and God's love—the same thing. That is acintya. Here in the relative world we cannot adjust how animosity and love can be the same, one and the same. That is acintya, inconceivable by us. But God's love... Just like God's love for the gopīs and God's enmity for Kaṁsa, they're reaching the same result. Both of them are going to the spiritual world. Just like Pūtanā and Mother Yaśodā. Pūtanā came to poison Kṛṣṇa, and Mother Yaśodā is always anxious to save Kṛṣṇa, naughty child. He may not be hurt. So two opposite things. But both of them got the same result. Kṛṣṇa thought that "I have sucked her breast, so she is My mother. She must go to the same destination as Yaśodā Mā." Just see. That is His enmity. And that is absolute. In our relative world, we can see so many differences in the dealings of God, but He is absolute, one. That is conception of God. Advaita. Advaita. Advaita means absolute. And... Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate. Vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam (SB 1.2.11). Again advayam. You may conceive God as impersonal or localized Paramātmā or Bhagavān—the same thing. But due to our, I mean to say, meager knowledge, we are thinking, somebody's thinking that His personality is greater than impersonality and somebody's thinking impersonality's greater than personality. This is our conception. He's the same. Vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam (SB 1.2.11). Not different. Not different. But one who has reached to the conception of personality, he has got all the others. That is the difference. So you write. You are theologician. You write about God so that people may understand how our students are enlightened. Other so-called foolish theologicians may learn from you. You take the ideas and explain.

Morning Walk -- December 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Then there is no question of philosophy. Finish. Everything one. That... This philosophy was discussed by Caitanya Mahāprabhu and His mother. He was eating dirt, and mother gave Him sandeśa. So He did not care to take sandeśa. He was eating dirt. Then mother came, "My dear boy, why you are eating dirt? Here is sandeśa. I have given you." "Mother, what is the difference between sandeśa and dirt? They are all the same. (laughing) They are all the same." "Yes, my dear boy, You are impersonalist philosopher. But it is required. Just like the water jug is also earth, made of earth. It is earth. And this ground is also earth. But when you have to keep water you require this water jug, not this earth." That is relativity. If you have to take work, then you cannot say, "Well, this is also earth, this is also... Why...? The pot is not required. Put water here." Then you will suffer, no water. So this kind of philosophy was discussed when Caitanya Mahāprabhu was a child. (break) ...and the tree is the same thing. But when I walk, I require the stick, not this tree. (break) ...The dogs must be on lash (leash). If somebody does not do that, he is criminal. So if he pleads in the court, "There is no difference, dogs on the lash or without lash. Why you are punishing me?" But will that be accepted?

Morning Walk -- December 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: Well, the judge says, "There is no difference whether I put you in jail or not."

Prabhupāda: (laughs) That's it. Then he has to accept jail. He should not defend himself. "Never mind. I go to jail." Why he appoints a lawyer to defend himself?

Karandhara: Well, that's what the impersonalist philosophers say, that "Go ahead and..." (break)

Prajāpati: ...The most famous theologian of this century named Paul Tillich said that all words are symbols, and God is a religious symbol pointing to our ultimate concern.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's nice. We say also.

Karandhara: Except Paul Tillich was the ultimate rascal. He was a debaucher. He debauched women all over Europe.

Hṛdayānanda: He recently died.

Karandhara: There is a book about him, a very inflammatory book about how he would debauch all of his friends. He said he got all of his inspirations after having sex with other women. He said after having sex he would get his inspirations on theology.

Prabhupāda: Sometimes the drunkards say also like that. They get inspiration by drinking.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 19, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...impersonalist or personalist. Who is better? That is explained, that personalists are better posted than the impersonalists. Gatir duḥk..., avyaktā hi gatir duḥkhaṁ dehavadbhir avāpyate.

Mr. Sar: Yes.

Prabhupāda: They simply suffer, that's all. It is already explained. The impersonalists, they cannot concentrate their mind upon the Supreme, and simply hodgepodge. Therefore they suffer.

Mr. Sar: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Māyāvādīs, they suffer only. Teṣāṁ kleśala eva śiṣyate. In Bhāgavata it is explained, "Their gain is only suffering." That's all.

Mr. Sar: That's why they...

Prabhupāda: Huh? Bhaktim udasya te vibho kliśyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye. Kevala-bodha-labdhaye.

Morning Walk -- February 19, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There is no rice...

Mr. Sar: No rice even.

Prabhupāda: Simply "gad, gad, gad, gad, gad, gad."

Mr. Sar: "Gad, gad, gad, gad, gad, gad, gad."

Prabhupāda: That's all. Teṣāṁ kleśala eva śiṣyate nānyad yathā sthūla-tuṣāvaghātinām. So these impersonalists, they are trying to approach the Absolute Truth, but the method is not very good.

Mr. Sar: (mumbles verse) ...avyaktam.

Prabhupāda: Hm. No, Kṛṣṇa says...

Mr. Sar: ...teṣāṁ paryupa...

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says that, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55).

Mr. Sar: Ah. Yāvān yaś cāsmi...

Prabhupāda: He never says that "By mental speculation, one can understand." He never says.

Morning Walk -- February 20, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: In America.

Bhava-bhūti: Yeah. And all these books.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Actually the Māyāvādī philosophy was started with Vivekananda. Because I don't find in the Christian faith that they are Māyāvādīs. Their belief is service to God. Of course, they are somewhat Māyāvādīs. But this real strong Māyāvādī was brought from East with Buddhism and Vivekananda's philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When I was studying, you know, books...

Prabhupāda: Nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādī.

Yaśomatīnandana: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda! (Prabhupāda chuckles)

Prabhupāda: All śūnyavādīs, Māyāvādīs, yes. Impersonalists.

Bhava-bhūti: That's why this Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy is so unique. (break) (end)

Morning Walk -- March 24, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Perfection means you are living entity, you are living entity you are rotting in this material world, get free from this material world, go back to home. That is saṁsiddhi. We are suffering so much on account of being in the material world. Tri-tāpa-yatana (?), threefold miseries. And everyone is trying to get out of the miseries, but that is not possible in the material world. Therefore you get your spiritual form, and go back to Kṛṣṇa and dance with him. That is saṁsiddhi. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). This is saṁsiddhi. "After giving up this body, no more accepting any more material body." Then, he's zero? No. Mām eti. "He comes to Me, to dance with Me, to play with Me." That is saṁsiddhi. Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. When Śukadeva Gosvāmī was describing the cowherds boy playing with Kṛṣṇa, he described, itthaṁ brahma-sukhānubhūtyā...

itthaṁ satāṁ brahma-sukhānubhūtyā
dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ para-daivatena
māyāśritānāṁ nara-dārakeṇa
sākaṁ vijahruḥ kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ
(SB 10.12.11)

These boys, these cowherds boys, they have accumulated, kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ, heaps of pious activities, therefore they are now allowed to play with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. Not ordinary thing. So the impersonalists, they cannot understand, "What is this, playing with Kṛṣṇa, cowherds boy?" But here it is said, kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. This is not ordinary thing. Itthaṁ brahma-sukhānubhūtyā. Satām.

Morning Walk -- March 29, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They say that they follow... (break) ...impersonal.

Indian man (4): Now, he has given about how brāhmaṇas should do—all this.

Prabhupāda: Why you recommended Pañca-upāsana?

Indian man (4): I don't understand that.

Prabhupāda: That is the impersonalist.

Indian man (3): (indistinct) bhakti.

Indian man (4): I don't know... Why...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, no...

Indian man (2): Pañcarātra...

Prabhupāda: Pañcopāsanam means that the Absolute Truth is impersonal. You can imagine as person like this. This is pañcopāsanam. Sādhu kanam hita taya brāhmaṇa rūpa kalpana, kalpana.(?) "You just imagine one form." But Vaiṣṇava, he's not like that. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ.

Morning Walk -- March 30, 1974, Bombay:

rabhupāda: Brahma means Vedas, Brahma means... There are so many things. So many things. So here brahmaṇaḥ, brahma-jyotir... People are very much impersonalists. They think realization of brahma-jyotir is final. To, just to reply them, this is, this śloka is: brahmaṇo aham pratiṣṭha. Wherefrom this jyoti's coming? This is very common sense. A jyoti does... Just like this jyoti, this clearness, no darkness, wherefrom it is coming? Everyone knows it is coming from the sun. Without this sun, why at night there was no such jyoti? Because the sun is rising, therefore this jyoti has come. Similarly...

Dr. Patel: (talking in background)

Prabhupāda: Now, why don't you hear?

Dr. Patel: I am hearing.

Prabhupāda: Why not... Just hear. It is very important point, that jyoti, it must come through some source.

Chandobhai: Jyoti has, jyoti has to come through source, correct.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And that is confirmed in the Brahmā-saṁhitā that yasya prabhā. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagadaṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi vibhūti-bhinnam (Bs. 5.40). This creation, all the whole creation, even this material, that is depending on the brahma-jyotir. Therefore it is said, sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Everything is depending on the brahma-jyotir. And that is confirmed also in the Bhagavad-gītā: mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni (BG 9.4). This mat-sthāni means...

Chandobhai: Within the Brahman.

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Italian Man (1): I see, yes, yes. And the difference between the impersonalist, I mean, and the personalist is that the impersonalist does not believe...

Prabhupāda: No, no, believe... You don't believe or not believe, it doesn't matter. We are explaining science. If somebody says, "No, there is no temperature," that is foolishness. There is temperature. How can you say there is no temperature? There is temperature. Even you go to the water, there is temperature. Everywhere. Because the elements are all there, bhūmir āpo analo vāyu... The beginning is the ākāśa, ether. The ether is in the air, the air is in the fire, the fire is in the water, and the earth is in the water. This is this way. And in the earth you will find everything. You will find air, ether, water, fire, everything. And the final state, it is ether only, originally. So suppose I am breathing. It is ethereal. But so many things are coming. If I am contaminated, by touching my breathing, you will be contaminated, and it will come out as disease.

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Here is a foreign reader. He says.

Indian Man (1): Which book you have read?

Italian Man (4): Well, I have read every book that can be available.

Indian Man (1): Have you read Rādhākrishnan on Bhagavad-gītā?

Prabhupāda: He is first-class impersonalist. He is a first-class blind man. First-class blind man.

Indian Man (1): But still, he appreciates Kṛṣṇa. He has never told any...

Prabhupāda: How can you...

Indian Man (1): Well, I read it, I studied it.

Prabhupāda: No, no. After all, he's a brāhmaṇa, Hindu brāhmaṇa. How he can defy Kṛṣṇa? That is not possible.

Indian Man (1): On the contrary, he is also a bhakta of Kṛṣṇa, but he says that after bhakti, devotion...

Indian Man (5): Who?

Indian Man (1): Dr. Radhakrishnan.

Indian Man (5): President of India. (break)

Indian Man (4): Our book is there in London, not Vivekananda.

Prabhupāda: Yes. His books are rejected.

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1974, Bombay:

Girirāja: "Nowhere in the Newsweek article is the quackery of these signs..."

Prabhupāda: But they were very much respectful to me. On my door they are lying down and passing urine. As soon as I will come, "Come on. Come on. Come on, sir. Come on," respectful. They were very respectful. Hm. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...grudge because I am presenting Kṛṣṇa the Supreme Personality of God. That is their grudge. That is the grudge of the all impersonalists.

Girirāja: "This allegation, however, betrays such a profound lack of knowledge that the so-called swami sounds more like one who is learned at Hinduism at New York University than an authentic scholar of the Vedas." (break) "Supreme Brahman, the ultimate..." (end)

Morning Walk -- April 18, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Devakī ānandam.

Dr. Patel: Kṛṣṇaṁ vande jagat guru.

Prabhupāda: Yaṁ brahma-varuṇendra-rudraḥ stunvanti divyaiḥ stavaiḥ. Sometimes the impersonalists argue, "If nobody has seen Him, then where is His form?" But here is. Brahmā, yaṁ brahma. Here is Brahmā praying. So why you say nobody has seen? Brahmā has seen. Therefore he is offering.

Dr. Patel: Bolo asitagirā samaṁsyāt. He'll recite half a dozen.

Prabhupāda: That's right. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Child: (chants Sanskrit verses.)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: (Hindi)

Child: (chants more verses)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: He wants to study Sanskrit from now, when I read all those books. But his father has put him directly in English medium. It becomes very difficult. I have to take him out and now he can read Sanskrit. You can read.

Prabhupāda: English medium, Sanskrit.

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: He gets equality, attains equality position. Yes, purport?

Nitāi: To the impersonalist, achieving the brahma-bhūta stage, becoming one with the Absolute, is the last word. But for the personalist, or pure devotee, one has to go still further to become engaged in pure devotional service. This means that one who is engaged in pure devotional service to the Supreme Lord is already in a state of liberation, called brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20), oneness with the Absolute. Without being one with the Supreme, the Absolute, one cannot render service unto Him. In the absolute conception, there is no difference between the served and the servitor; yet the distinction is there, in a higher spiritual sense.

In the material concept of life, when one works for sense gratification, there is misery, but in the absolute world, when one is engaged in pure devotional service, there is no misery. The devotee in Kṛṣṇa consciousness has nothing to lament or desire. Since God is full, a living entity who is engaged in God's service, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, becomes also full in himself. He is just like a river cleansed of all dirty water. Because a pure devotee has no thought other than Kṛṣṇa, he is naturally always joyful. He does not lament for any material loss or gain because he is full in service of the Lord. He has no desire for material enjoyment because he knows that every living entity is the fragmental part and parcel of the Supreme Lord and therefore eternally a servant. He does not see, in the material world, someone as higher and someone as lower; higher and lower positions are ephemeral, and a devotee has nothing to do with ephemeral appearances or disappearances. For him stone and gold are of equal value. This is the brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20) stage, and this stage is attained very easily by the pure devotee. In that stage of existence, the idea of becoming one with the Supreme Brahman and annihilating one's individuality becomes hellish, and the idea of attaining the heavenly kingdom becomes phantasmagoria, and the senses are like broken serpents' teeth. As there is no fear of a serpent with broken teeth, so there is no fear from the senses when they are automatically controlled. The world is miserable for the materially infected person, but for a devotee the entire world is as good as Vaikuṇṭha, or the spiritual sky. The highest personality in this material universe is no more significant than an ant for a devotee. Such a stage can be achieved by the mercy of Lord Caitanya, who preached pure devotional service in this age.

O'Grady: Could you read the opening little bit again?

Nitāi: In the purport?

O'Grady: Yeah.

Nitāi: "To the impersonalist, achieving the brahma-bhūta stage, becoming one with the Absolute, is the last word."

O'Grady: O.K. Now, is the Absolute internal or external?

Prabhupāda: Absolute has no internal or external. That is Absolute. If there is internal and external, it is not Absolute.

Room Conversation with Catholic Cardinal and Secretary to the Pope -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Nitāi: Those eligible for elevation to the transcendental position are mentioned in this verse. For those who are sinful, atheistic, foolish and deceitful, it is very difficult to transcend the duality of desire and hate. Only those who have passed their lives in practicing the regulative principles of religion, who have acted piously and have conquered sinful reactions can accept devotional service and gradually rise to the pure knowledge of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Then, gradually, they can meditate in trance on the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the process of being situated on the spiritual platform. This elevation is possible in Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the association of pure devotees who can deliver one from delusion.

It is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that if one actually wants to be liberated he must render service to the devotees; but one who associates with materialistic people is on the path leading to the darkest region of existence. All the devotees of the Lord traverse this earth just to recover the conditioned souls from their delusion. The impersonalists do not know that forgetting their constitutional position as subordinate to the Supreme Lord is the greatest violation of God's law. Unless one is reinstated in his own constitutional position, it is not possible to understand the Supreme Personality or to be fully engaged in His transcendental loving service with determination.

Prabhupāda: So we forbid our students to refrain from four sinful activities: No illicit sex life, no meat-eating, and no intoxication, up to drinking tea, coffee or smoking. They are also intoxicants. And no gambling. These four principles, they avoid completely. And as it is recommended in this book, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: (BG 18.65) "Always think of Me," man-manā. "Just become My devotee. Just offer your obeisances unto Me, and just worship Me." Four principles. If you follow these four principles without any offense, then you go back to home, back to Godhead. So for remembering God, you chant always God's name on these beads.

Room Conversation with Catholic Cardinal and Secretary to the Pope -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Read the purport.

Nitāi: There are various grades of men, and out of many thousands one may be sufficiently interested in transcendental realization to try to know what is the self, what is the body, and what is the Absolute Truth. Generally mankind is simply engaged in the animal propensities, namely eating, sleeping, defending and mating, and hardly anyone is interested in transcendental knowledge. The first six chapters of the Gītā are meant for those who are interested in transcendental knowledge, in understanding the self, the Superself and the process of realization by jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, and discrimination of the self from matter. However, Kṛṣṇa can only be known by persons who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Other transcendentalists may achieve impersonal Brahman realization, for this is easier than understanding Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person, but at the same time He is beyond the knowledge of Brahman and Paramātmā. The yogīs and jñānīs are confused in their attempts to understand Kṛṣṇa, although the greatest of the impersonalists, Śrīpāda Śaṅkarācārya, has admitted in his Gītā commentary that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But his followers do not accept Kṛṣṇa as such, for it is very difficult to know Kṛṣṇa, even though one has transcendental realization of impersonal Brahman.

Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the cause of all causes, the primeval Lord Govinda. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ anādir ādir govindaḥ sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1). It is very difficult for the nondevotees to know Him. Although nondevotees declare that the path of bhakti or devotional service is very easy, they cannot practice it. If the path of bhakti is so easy, as the nondevotee class of men proclaim, then why do they take up the difficult path? Actually the path of bhakti is not easy. The so-called path of bhakti practiced by unauthorized persons without knowledge of bhakti may be easy, but when it is practiced factually according to the rules and regulations, the speculative scholars and philosophers fall away from the path. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī writes in his Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu:

śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi-pañcarātra-vidhiṁ vinā
aikāntikī harer bhaktir utpātāyaiva kalpate.
(Brs. 1.2.101)

"Devotional service of the Lord that ignores the authorized Vedic literatures like the Upaniṣads, Purāṇas, Nārada Pañcarātra, etc., is simply an unnecessary disturbance in society."

It is not possible for the Brahman realized impersonalist or the Paramātmā realized yogī to understand Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead as the son of Mother Yaśodā or the charioteer of Arjuna. Even the great demigods are sometimes confused about Kṛṣṇa: "muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ," "māṁ tu veda na kaścana." "No one knows Me as I am," the Lord says. And if one does know Him, then "sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ." "Such a great soul is very rare." Therefore unless one practices devotional service to the Lord, he cannot know Kṛṣṇa as He is (tattvataḥ), even though one is a great scholar or philosopher. Only the pure devotees can know something of the inconceivable transcendental qualities in Kṛṣṇa, in the cause of all causes, in His omnipotence and opulence, and in His wealth, fame, strength, beauty, knowledge and renunciation, because Kṛṣṇa is benevolently inclined to His devotees. He is the last word in Brahman realization, and the devotees alone can realize Him as He is. Therefore it is said:

ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyāiḥ
sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ
(Brs. 1.2.234)

"No one can understand Kṛṣṇa as He is by the blunt material senses. But He reveals Himself to the devotees, being pleased with them for their transcendental loving service unto Him." (Padma Purāṇa)

Prabhupāda: So the position is, that hardly, out of many millions, one can actually understand what is God. So our field of activity is everywhere in that sense, not in this particular and that particular... Because in truth hardly very few people understands what is God.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Jyotirmayī: Mr. (indistinct) has made very good progress, because before he was always teaching impersonalist Bhagavad-gītā, and now you see he is wearing a dhotī, he's coming to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, he's coming for Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam classes, and he teaches personalist Bhagavad-gītā. But he still thinks a little bit that maybe above there is something impersonalism. But there is good progress. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). Brahman, Paramātmā... He understands English?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān, last stage. First realization impersonal Brahman, then localized Paramātmā, and then Personality of Godhead.

(Jyotirmayī translates into French)

Yogeśvara: Jyotirmayī, perhaps you can explain what Mr. Priest's qualifications are.

Jyotirmayī: Yeah, Mr. (indistinct) is a priest, and he has been for a long time in India, a Christian priest, and he was very glad to know what you are doing here. Kṛṣṇa consciousness was...

Prabhupāda: In India, where did you stay?

Priest: In Poona.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Herbert?

Bhagavān: Yes, that's right.

Prabhupāda: Mr. Herbert?

Bhagavān: Yes. He's asking your opinion of him.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he is a scholar, but he is impersonalist.

Jyotirmayī: (French)

Prabhupāda: So I met him. He is a good gentleman, scholar, but he is a Māyāvādī, he is impersonalist.

Jyotirmayī: (French)

Prabhupāda: But if he... He has already written one book. He has presented me, that Kṛṣṇa...

Devotee: The Yoga of Love.

Prabhupāda: The Yoga of Love. So he has many times repeated the word "Kṛṣṇa." That will benefit him.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: He is already... That I have already explained. Suptottitha-nyāya. In the morning, as soon as you get up, you remember that you have to do so many things. That means it was already there.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Right. Is that just like the impersonalists? They go up into the brahma-jyotir, but they have desire. So they have to come back down.

Prabhupāda: No, this is not going to the brahma-jyotir. Those who..., brahma-jyotir, they do not come in that way. They come in their own frustration.

Paramahaṁsa: So Śrīla Prabhupāda, the living entities, when they come out of the body of Mahā-Viṣṇu, they, they...

Prabhupāda: In Mahā-Viṣṇu's body they simply rest during the annihilation. That's all.

Yogeśvara: But then during the creation, the scientists say, in the beginning, there was no human life on this planet.

Prabhupāda: The scientists are rascals. What they know? There was no human being? Why not human being? The Brahmā is human being. Then you reject the Vedic conclusion. You take this rascal scientist's conclusion.

Morning Walk -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is Kṛṣṇa's. But you are thinking you are. That is Kṛṣṇa's. Therefore this body should be engaged for Kṛṣṇa's service. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You, as soon as you accept this body is Kṛṣṇa's, then you cannot employ it for other purposes. But that realization you have no. Why do you say it is Kṛṣṇa's? You are thinking your body. Or you are body. Where is that consciousness?

Paramahaṁsa: The impersonalists argue when they read the verse, ahaṁ sarvasya bhūteṣu...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Paramahaṁsa: They argue that Kṛṣṇa's in the heart of every living entity.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Paramahaṁsa: Therefore, every living entity is Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Why? If I am in the room, I am room? Is that very good argument? Because I am in this room, I have become room? Is that argument very sound? Kṛṣṇa is within this body. I am also within this body. But does it mean I am body, or Kṛṣṇa is this body?

Devotees: No.

Morning Walk -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: We, we worship Kṛṣṇa in His form, but you are formless. You worship that stone. When we make the form of Kṛṣṇa in stone, then we worship, not that any stone. Because Kṛṣṇa is everything, that does not mean I have to worship the dog. That you worship. Because you are impersonalist, you worship dog. And you are doing that. In the morning, you take a dog and worship it. That is your business. Our business is to worship the form of Kṛṣṇa. That is the, required. (pause)

Bhagavān: Could we say that anyone who is engaged in glorifying the body is actually engaged in idol worship?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Bhagavān: Anyone who's engaged in...

Prabhupāda: That is already answered. Kṛṣṇa says, "The body is Myself, but still, I am not there." So you cannot say by worshiping your body, you're worshiping Kṛṣṇa. At that time, he's not there, although the body's also Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Russian Orthodox Church Representative -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Still, he is leader?

Karandhara: Yes.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: The impersonalists, Lord Caitanya said that they are the greatest offenders to Lord Kṛṣṇa. So most of the so-called religious people of the world today, if they have a conception of God, it is that God is impersonal spirit. Does that mean they are to be classified, at least in terms of this understanding, amongst the demons and asuras?

Karandhara: No, in this instance this man is... It's not as much that he's an impersonalist as that he has no clear idea one way or the other. He's ignorant. An impersonalist is someone in the classic sense who has... He's aware of the Vaiṣṇava philosophy, but he rejects that, that God is definitely not a person, and he takes that as being a lower conception.

Bhagavān: In ignorance, though, even though he's in ignorance, he is hurting people due to his ignorance by... He's claiming to be a teacher, and even though he may be innocent or ignorant, because he's in that position of leader, he's actually hurting people, wasting their life.

French Devotee: He left, Śrīla Prabhupāda, because he was very afraid that we were right.

Bhagavān: He said he had another engagement.

Paramahaṁsa: In the world today it seems as if, just like men take advantage of women and make them topless and bottomless, also they try and encourage people like this to be leaders of religion. That way the mass of people don't take any real interest. They do this in Russia too. They kill the sincere religious leaders, and they put their own men as religious leader, and it just sort of undermines the whole purity and the importance in the instruction, and then no one repeats it.

Karandhara: In the West also, in the past ten years there's been a resurgence of what's called fundamentalism. For so long the Christian liturgy, the Christian doctrine, got so hodge-podge and so wishy-washy that people were leaving because there was simply nothing there solid for them to grasp onto. Now fundamentalism, or the very basic principles that God is the Almighty and that we are sinners and if we don't repent, God's going to strike us down with wrath and anger, that basic principle of fear of God, that is receiving new support. Many people are coming back to that because even though it's a very vague thing, still it's something definite. "God is there, and if I do something wrong, He's going to cut me down," rather than, "Well, nothing's wrong, nothing's right," it's all hodge-podge, wish wash. People can't grasp onto that. There's nothing for them to...

Prabhupāda: That is Māyāvāda, "nothing wrong, nothing right. Everything is all right," Vivekananda's philosophy.

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: You are all fools. You are all fools. Therefore you have no philosophy. You cannot understand philosophy.

Yogeśvara: He says, "God is beyond philosophy and words."

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: That is how he brainwashes them.

Paramahaṁsa: The impersonalists have agreed amongst themselves that "As many theories, as many ways to God."

Prabhupāda: But God says, "Although there are many ways, you give them up. You take to this only. Surrender unto Me." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Their many ways means there are many kinds of men. So in the śāstra sometimes the attempt is to bring every one of them to bhakti-yoga.

Paramahaṁsa: But they argue that no matter, all ways, all paths lead to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Paramahaṁsa: They argue that all paths lead to Kṛṣṇa. So why is one better than another?

Prabhupāda: If you know that all paths leads to Kṛṣṇa, then why don't you take this path? Why you are going round about way? If somebody asks you, "Where is your nose?" What is the use of showing like this. (laughter) Show like this. If you know really nose. But you do not know. Therefore you are going like this.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: No, no connection.

Prabhupāda: They are all impersonalists. The whole world is impersonalist. Perhaps we are only the personalists.

Professor Durckheim: You know that the Christian theologian, they think the main difference between them and Eastern religions altogether is that the Christian are personalists and Eastern tradition is not personalist. This is the whole...

Prabhupāda: Misconception, yes. The majority of Indian population, they are personalists. Yes, majority. Either they worship God or demigod, but they are personalists. Recently the Māyāvādī philosophers, they have poisoned, the impersonalism, calamity. God is person. It is... In the Veda it is said, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). There are millions of persons. We are all persons. And God is the chief person. Just like in modern democracy, there is no monarch. But ultimately they have to select one president. Without person, there cannot be government. Why they do not remain without a president? Let it... Government, everything is government, impersonal. Why they select a president?

Page Title:Impersonalist (Conversations 1967 - 1974)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:25 of Mar, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=56, Let=0
No. of Quotes:56