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Immorality (Conv. and Letters)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Rosicrucians -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: But these things are there, but they don't say. Suppose a man is killing animals. They don't prohibit him. Then that is immoral life, but if they don't prohibit him, then how he can become moral? (break) ...killing of animals and morality will go together?

Yogeśvara: It's an order that likes very much the ideals of beauty and harmony and morality, but they can't see imposing on anyone these things. I guess their idea is that you can't impose beauty and morality on anyone. You can't insist that anyone stop killing. You can't tell anyone forcibly not to do this or not to do that, that these are things that you have to realize.

Prabhupāda: But is there such rules and regulation or injunction from the society that "You do not kill." Just like Bible there is, "You shall not kill." So they have no such thing.

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No. All the qualities that we find within this material world, all of them must have come from God. If there is wrath within this material world, it must have come from God because God is the origin of everything. That is the Vedānta-sūtra. Brahman, Absolute Truth, means the source of everything. Whatever we have got experience within this material world, everything is there in God. That is perfection of God. You cannot say, "This thing is not in God." So aiśvaryasya samagrasya. Everything is there. Just like Kṛṣṇa stealing as a child. But apparently sometimes He does something which is not very moral. So this immorality, the so-called immorality, it is there also. That is the full conception of God. He's not lacking in anything. Under the circumstances, God is in wrath, that is correct. But that is not His only characteristic. He has got mercifulness also. Everything is there. That is God. Therefore as theologician, you should understand the correct conception of God. They have no complete conception of God. Now, God is described in the dictionary as the Supreme Being. Is it not?

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No. When there is political game, everyone does everything to gain his victory. In politics, these things are allowed. Just like killing, fighting, kṣatriya's fighting. That killing is allowed. But killing is not allowed generally. Kṛṣṇa has killed so many. If you take from moral point of view, He's sometimes immoral. He has killed His maternal uncle, Kaṁsa, and Śiśupāla, Śiśupāla, his cousin brother. And Balarāma killed Rukma. Once He saved him, and another time, that Aniruddha's marriage, or something like that... Balarāma killed Rukma, the brother of Rukmiṇī. They were family relatives. But there was some misunderstanding in chess playing that other party, Rukma, he was cheating by tricks. The Balarāma became so angry, they killed him. So in politics amongst the kṣatriyas, these things are not uncommon.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This kind of understanding at the present time, at the present time... (Hindi) So we give reference, that "Present time, everyone is fallen." But truth is always the same, not at present time. So the real truth is that ideal man of character there must be. Because at the present moment there is no character, there is no moral education, therefore we have to adapt according to them, no. The pukka moralist, he must be moralist. It doesn't matter that "People at the present time, they do all immoral activities; therefore we have to adjust." No. Strictly one should be moralist. There is no question of present time or past time. That should be real point of view. Then?

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Cyavana: (break) ...the standard of morality, Arjuna's activity of killing was immoral.

Prabhupāda: Morality, immorality, this is all creation of mind. Real purpose of life, to serve the order of Kṛṣṇa, that is real morality.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I think that we must all be kṛpa-siddhi, because by your mercy you have lifted us out of hellish conditions of life.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's mercy. You have accepted Kṛṣṇa's mercy. This is the... (break) This empirical policy was very good, provided it would have been done for Kṛṣṇa. Then they could unite the whole world.

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. And that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (break) They are in equal right, then... Nowadays, of course, they are thinking like that, that man should remain independent, and they'll have homosex, and the woman also independent and they will make some... This is most immoral things.

Indian man: If only people think that they have equal right...

Prabhupāda: Where is equal right? Even in Russia there is no equal rights. They have created some of them are managers, and some of them are workers. Why? If equal rights, then everyone should be manager.

Harikeśa: Well, in America they have women senators now.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- May 5, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: They should follow what their spiritual master says. Book selling, there is no question of moral and immoral. They must sell. Just like in fighting. Where there is fight, the soldiers, to gain victory, there is no question of moral and immoral. He must.

Bhūrijana: Śrīla Prabhupāda, but I think the thing I understand least, is that if they are not doing what you want... I mean... I'm sitting before you now and you're telling me and I'm listening, and you are my spiritual master. I must accept.

Prabhupāda: We want that book selling must be increased as much as possible. This we want. The same thing. Let the child take medicine. Never mind the father is speaking lies. That is... Because as soon as he takes the medicine he'll be benefited. End justifies the means. End is that everyone should have a Kṛṣṇa literature. Doesn't matter what is the means. Because he has taken one Kṛṣṇa literature, that justifies everything. This is the principle.

Room Conversation -- August 20, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: This is morality. "You commit immorality as much as you like. You simply admit it. Then it's right" (indistinct) This is their propaganda. They do not want to stop immorality. "You do, and don't hide it—you admit." But persons are so shameless that they will continually do, and they have no shamefulness to hide even. That is the Christian theory, that "Our religion is so... Maybe we are unable to remain without any sin. Christ will excuse us." Is it not? This is going on. This is.

Saurabha: They're also criticized a lot there. They have been criticized a lot there locally. People, they think they are CIA.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Us?

Saurabha: No. The MRA. Because they have big meetings twice a year only.

Prabhupāda: The MRA, they are Americans?

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Roof Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Pāpa, everything... In the material world, whatever you do, that is pāpa. In the material world, "This is pāpa, this is puṇya"—this is mental concoction. Everything is pāpa. Dvaite bhadrābhadra sakali samāna. In the world of duality, material world, we have manufactured something—"This is good; this is bad. This is moral, this is immoral"—but Caitanya-caritāmṛta author said, "These are all mental concoction. Everything is the same, material." Material means bad. But we have made some convention—"This is good; this is bad; this is..."

Mr. Gupta: By God's grace I'm a very successful man. I'm youngest chief mechanical engineer on the Central Railway. I know kāma, krodha, lobha, moha—all are, taken to extreme, it's pāpa. I know it. But when they overcome in the heat of the moment, they you're not able to retract yourself. It's only when...

Dr. Patel: Then... Then...

Arrival of BBT Manager -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. When there is fight these things are studied. (Hindi) When there is fight there is no question of immoral or moral. "We must get victory," that's all. Kṛṣṇa did it. Kṛṣṇa asked...

Hari-śauri: According to this, they've made it legal, deprogramming. They're making it legal that they can hold a person by force until they break him mentally.

Jagadīśa: Rāmeśvara? Are there many of our devotees who've been deprogrammed, or are they mostly other groups?

Rāmeśvara: Mostly the others. Śrīla Prabhupāda, the business of the Book Trust has gotten very big. So the warehouse in Los Angeles has become too small. So we have gotten a new warehouse.

Prabhupāda: We have got a warehouse like Howrah Station.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: This is immoral.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: God never acts in an immoral way.

Prabhupāda: So that you have made, immoral. Because if He is the proprietor, then He is the proprietor of everything. You have accepted one woman who belongs to Kṛṣṇa. You are immoral. He is the original proprietor of everything, and everything belongs to Him, but He has given you one woman. Tena tyaktena. But no woman belongs to you. So you should stop connection with women. It is immoral. Otherwise every woman belongs to Kṛṣṇa. How you can use Kṛṣṇa's property? That is the disease, that we are trying to enjoy Kṛṣṇa's property. Kṛṣṇa's the proprietor. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva... (BG 5.29). He's the bhokta, He's the enjoyer. How you can enjoy Kṛṣṇa's property? That is immoral. And therefore you shall be punished. You are being punished. Because we are encroaching upon Kṛṣṇa's property illegally, therefore we are suffering. Kṛṣṇa is moral, you are utilizing unauthorized, using this material...

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: They say that when one man has many different women, then that is immoral.

Prabhupāda: No, first of all answer. Suppose you are a big man, but you are product of sex. Are you born differently or through sex? What is the answer?

Rāmeśvara: Sex.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sex is not bad. When it is misused, that is the defect. Otherwise, sex is not...

Rāmeśvara: The Western conception is that one man can only have one woman.

Prabhupāda: Why? If he can produce many big men, he can have hundreds of women. But you cannot do that. Therefore you are restrained. You are bad. You better restrain. Don't have sex, because you'll produce cats and dogs. But one who is able to produce great brain, great philosophers, he should produce hundreds. You do not know how to produce good brain. Therefore you stop! Don't produce cats and dogs. For you it is "Stop." You do not know how to use sex. Therefore you should stop.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: That is what they accuse us of. They say that we teach our devotees that you can lie for Kṛṣṇa, you can steal for Kṛṣṇa, you can even kill for Kṛṣṇa. So this is immoral.

Prabhupāda: But do you say like that?

Rāmeśvara: No, they are distorting. But that is their ar... And just like they use your Back to Godhead article about Arjuna on the battlefield, that sometimes we may even have to kill our relatives for Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: So, suppose if God said that "You kill," what you will do?

Rāmeśvara: Our argument is just that, that in the Bible, God told Abraham, "You must kill your son Isaac." This is a famous story in the Bible. So Abraham took his son and was ready to chop off his head. And God felt sorry and He stopped him. But that story is there in the Bible, that God told Abraham to kill his son, and Abraham was ready to do it. It does not mean that the Jewish religion is based on killing your son.

Jagadīśa: It was a test of his faith.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: They are luscious(?) that... (break) Just like a tuberculosis patient. To him doctor says that "You don't have sex life. That will bring your death." Does it mean sex life is bad? The tuberculosis person, for him it is bad, not for the sane man, not for the healthy man. So when sex life is advised to..., forbidden, that is for the diseased condition. But who is never diseased—he is perfect—for him there is no forbidding of sex life. So you do not understand that in this material condition you are suffering only. You have no brain. Therefore morality, immorality, good, bad, there are so many things. But when one is perfect, healthy, for him all the activities of life is perfect. Just like a physician advised me, "You don't take salt." Does it mean salt is bad? I am in a particular condition of this kidney trouble or liver trouble. For me salt is bad. But does it mean salt bad?

Correspondence

1947 to 1965 Correspondence

Letter to Ratanshi Morarji Khatau -- Bombay 5 August, 1958:

A person who is compact in mundane thought of material enjoyment will certainly be indulging in playing with poison if anyone, devoid of transcendental realization playfully deals with the transcendental pastimes of Lord Sri Krishna. Some friends who attended your Bhagavata week have told me how the pastimes of Lord Krishna was being wrongly interpreted in your organization on the pretext of saving Krishna from being an immoral personality. To save these foolish audiences in future Maharaja Pariksit had already asked Sripada Sukadeva Goswami to clear the Rasaleela activities of Lord Sri Krishna. The transcendental nature of Rasa Lila does not require to be apologised by any Mayavadi or mundane moralist. The Lila is what it is. Srila Vyasadeva never desired that in future the real purpose of the Rasa Lila had to be explained by some mundane scholar with poor fund of knowledge.

Letter to Ratanshi Morarji Khatau -- Bombay 5 August, 1958:

In the sloka No. 30 it is forbidden that a mundane person should not indulge in hearing Rasalila or one should not hear Rasalila from a mundane person. In your organization both the audience and the lecturer are mundane persons and their indulgence in the matter of Rasalila out of sheer foolishness will result in imitating Rudra who swallowed up an ocean of poison. There is nothing immorality in the transcendental activities of the lord neither it requires to be defended by any immoral man because simply by remembering the holy name of Krishna or by serving His lotus feet one can at once become a liberated person. (Bhag. 10/33/34) Besides that the result of reading or hearing the Rasalila in the devotional mood is stated (Bhag. 30/33/39) to become culminated in complete disappearance of the devotee's lust disease in the heart.

1968 Correspondence

Letter to Satsvarupa -- Los Angeles 22 January, 1968:

I understand that sometimes you feel sex urges and frustration. In the material world sex urge is the binding force for material existence. A determined person tolerates such sex urges as one tolerates the itching sensation of eczema. If not one can satisfy the sex urge by legitimate marriage. Immoral sex life and spiritual advancement are incompatible proposition. Your full engagement in K.C. & constant chanting will save you from all inconveniences.

You have accepted me as father, so I have also accepted you as my dear and real son. Relationship of father & son on spiritual platform is real and eternal, on the material platform such relationship is ephemeral and temporary. Although I cannot give you anything as father, still I can pray to Krishna for your more & more advancement in K.C. Your sincerity & service mood will always help you in advancing your genuine cause.

1969 Correspondence

Letter to Unknown -- Tittenhurst 1 October, 1969:

It is not recommended that a Krishna Conscious devotee go into seclusion for chanting by himself and thereby gaining salvation for himself alone. Our duty and religious obligation is to go out into the streets where the people in general can hear the chanting and see the dancing. We have already seen practically how by this process many, many boys and girls of America and Europe have been saved from the immoral practices of this age and have now dedicated their lives to the service of Krishna.

The state laws are specifically meant for making citizens men of good character, and good character means avoiding the following sinful activities: intoxication, illicit sex life, gambling and meat-eating. We are checking people from practicing these sinful activities. All of our students are applying these principles practically in their lives, and they are teaching others to follow the same principles. Therefore, it is the duty of the government to help us in our missionary work rather than to hinder us.

Letter to Satsvarupa -- Tittenhurst House, England 31 October, 1969:

I give you all these hints not for general discussion, but for your personal understanding to know the respective positions of different types of religious principles. Ours is transcendental because we are not very much concerned with the minor moral or immoral principles, although each and every devotee is a first class moralist. But our religious principles or natural occupational duty is to learn how to love Krishna. We are practicing this and we are teaching this. So let us very steadily stick to our principles and our movement will surely come out successful.

Page Title:Immorality (Conv. and Letters)
Compiler:Mayapur, RupaManjari
Created:03 of Oct, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=14, Let=5
No. of Quotes:19