Prabhupāda: First stage is faith and respect, the second stage is association. That is probational period. And so far attaining enlightenment according to one's rate of development; that development depends on your enthusiasm; how far you are serious. But one should become very serious. That is the law in every sphere of achievement. So for attaining to the perfectional stage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one should be very much enthusiastic. Yes. He must attain to the perfectional stage in this life. And then one should be patient also. Enthusiasm does not mean if I attain something immediately the result is immediate. No. The result may be delayed but we should not be disturbed. But we must go on working with enthusiasm. This is called patience. Enthusiasm, patience and confidence. Because we believe in Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says that if you do this you get this result. Therefore I must have confidence. Just like Kṛṣṇa says that simply by understanding Him, what He is, how does He come, how does He walk, one immediately gets passport to enter into the spiritual kingdom. So we must have confidence that I'm working in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, I must go back to Godhead, back to home. This is confidence. So enthusiasm, patience, confidence.
Immediate (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Seaweeds, yes. So they... All over the body there was some seaweeds. Not exactly... He was very unclean and odd-looking, and beard and ugly. So he thought that "He's a great yogi. If I refuse, 'No, I'm not going to hand over my daughter to you,' then he may be angry and create some catastrophe." So he said, just to avoid him, that "I have got eight daughters, and it is the desire of my daughters that they should be given over to one husband." No, that "they should be married all at once. So unless I find other husbands for my daughters you have to wait." So immediately, "Yes, I shall myself become eight then." And he expanded himself, eight expansions. So at that time what could he say? He said, "You know, my dear sir, that they are princesses after all. They may not like such ugly husband." Oh, he at once became very youthful and beautiful. Then he married. So in the history you can find that a perfect yogi can expand himself. So similarly, Kardama Muni also expanded into nine. He married Devahūti on condition that unless his wife has got sufficient children, he'll not leave her, and he must leave her. So he expanded himself nine and begotten nine daughters. So we can find from history, the Purāṇas... Purāṇas all means history, Purāṇas. Old history. Purāṇa means old. So even a perfect yogi can expand, what to speak of Kṛṣṇa. He is called Yogeśvara, the supreme yogi. In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find this word about Kṛṣṇa, yatra yogeśvaraḥ hariḥ. Yogeśvara. He's perfect in all practices of mystic power. So these five expansions, śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu nityānanda-śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura... Kṛṣṇa appeared in five expansions. Sri Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, Lord Caitanya, is Kṛṣṇa Himself. And Prabhu Nityānanda, His immediate expansion. Just like Balarāma. Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma. And Advaita is incarnation. And Gadādhara is internal potency. And Śrīvāsa, marginal potency. And there is another potency, external potency. The external potency is not there. External potency means by which this material world is manifested.
Prabhupāda: Forget that. You are attracted. That you take account of. When you become diseased, that is useless. You are diseased. Take medicine. There is no necessity of asking when you became diseased. You are diseased. Take medicine. That's all. What is the use of tracing the history? Everything has his history, that's all right. But my immediate necessity is that "I am diseased. I want to be cured. Give me some medicine." But there is history. The history is this. Just like disease. You have fallen victim of disease. That means you have given chance to the infection. That's all. That is the sum and substance of disease. You are infected with some disease. That means you have given chance for that infection. There was a story in a medical journal. "Typhoid Mary." Typhoid Mary... One girl, whenever she was present everyone was being infected with typhoid. Then she was examined, that she is full of typhoid germs. But she was immune. But she infected wherever she went. The medical journal reported. So we should be careful not being infected. And that how you can become free from infection? These four rules. "Don't have this, don't have this, don't have this, don't have this." Then you are free from infection. So you should be careful from being infected. There is no use tracing out the history when you become infected. You should not be infected. That should be your business. And as you are now infected, you try to avoid the causes of infection and take the medicine; you become cured. Some prasādam? So Annapurna you have got some news?
Janārdana: Third Canto. I have fragments of it. Satsvarupa Prabhu gave me some fragments that he had. So I have a couple of books like this. (break)
Prabhupāda: I shall put here. (break) ...and you... The New York boys' opinion is to start a press in New York will be nice because there is so many other facilities for press work. If the press goes wrong, there are immediate, I mean to say, what is called, mechanics to repair it. In other places it is not possible. (break) All right. We shall think over it.
Janārdana: About the press in New York?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Janārdana: Well, Montreal center has a room for a press. However, there is the inconvenience that the building may be torn down in two years.
Prabhupāda: What about that other building, that storefront down?
Janārdana: A storefront downstairs? I don't know all the details about that. I haven't been looking into...
Prabhupāda: You told me that there is a church for sale on the other side of the park?
Janārdana: Yes, there is. Yes.
Prabhupāda: This is the age for injecting Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If children are taught Kṛṣṇa consciousness from this age, the face of the world will be different. (break) ...but they are not Hindus. They have got also obstinacy like that. (break) It is very important. "I thought in that way. When my mother died, as the devotees of the Lord think, I also thought in that way. What is that? 'Oh, it is a grace of the Lord. My mother is now dead.' Because she is the, I mean to say, real cause of my nonfreedom. So she is now dead. Then I am free." It is very contradiction from the materialistic point of view. It is said that, bhaktanam śam abhīpsataḥ. "As the devotees think, so I also in that way thought." What is that? Anugrahaṁ manyamānaḥ. "I thought it a special grace of the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Anugrahaṁ manyamānaḥ pratiṣṭhāṁ disam uttaram: "And I at once took leave of my so-called home and went away." So that is the difference between the devotees of the Lord and materialistic persons. When their materialistic relationship, comforts, are taken away, they think "Oh, it is all grace." And the materialistic person, when their materialistic comforts are increased, they think, "It is grace." Yā niśā sarva-bhūtānāṁ tasmin jāgrati saṁ... That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Just like... There is a crude example. I think I have cited this example many times, that a foolish patient thinks that increase of fever is very nice. Fever, so what should be the ideal? Fever should decrease. But those who are less intelligent, they think, "Yes, it must increase." (chuckles) There is a drama in Bengali that in a house a doctor came to diagnose. There were two patients, the housewife and the maidservant. So doctor said, "The maidservant's fever is 105, so there is some anxiety. I give some medicine. And the, that landlady, she has no fever practically, 99, so there is no anxiety." But the landlady became angry, that "This doctor is useless. I am the landlady. I have got 99, and my maidservant 105. And maidservant should have 98. I should have 110!" (laughter) This is the mentality. The modern civilization is trying to increase the degree of fever to 110 degrees. And, you know, as soon as the degree comes to 107 it is death. Do you know that? If the fever increases to hundred and... Therefore as soon as the high fever is there, the doctor try to decrease it by icebags and so many things because to come to the fever degree, 107 or 8, means immediate death.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: (laughs) The servant was crying, "Oh! I am dying, I am dying, I am dying." So I immediately called ambulance and took her to the hospital. Then, when I went there, there were so many neophyte doctors. They experimented, and they said, "Immediate operation is required." "Why?" They gave us some technical terms. Then their leader doctor came. He said, "All right. Let us see this night. Then, next morning, we shall operate." So I asked him, "I can go? He may remain in your charge?" "Yes." So I went, came back. And when I was absent, another servant of the neighbor, he told to my wife, that "Babuji..." Babuji means master. "...it is unnecessarily he has taken to hospital. He was drunk, and he was crying like that. (laughter) He drank." So my wife told that he was drunk, and he was therefore crying like that. "No, no. Doctor says that it is a serious case (laughter) and it is to be operated." And the next morning the servant came back. "And why you come back? You were to be operated?" "Oh, thik hai. It is now all right." Just see. The rascals were going to operate. He was drunk. In drunken state he was crying, and they took it a case of operation. That is my practical experience. Everything you take there: "Operation."
Prabhupāda: According to Bhagavad-gītā, there are four classes of men who deride at God and four classes of men who approaches God.
- na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
- prapadyante narādhamāḥ
- māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
- āsuriṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
- (BG 7.15)
Atheist class of men, who are always engaged in sinful activities, and therefore fools... They don't believe in the next life. Therefore they are fools. There is next life. They say, "Oh, we don't care for next life. Let us do whatever we like." That is a foolish proposition. Because there is next life. Just like a man he becomes irresponsible. He says, "I don't care for government or law. I can do whatever I like." That means he's risking his life. As soon as he'll be arrested, he'll be punished. Therefore he's mūḍha, rascal. Anyone who is defying the kingdom of God, he's a rascal. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Narādhamāḥ, is lowest of the mankind. God consciousness is meant for human beings, and if a person defies God, then he's the lowest of the mankind. māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. His knowledge has been plundered by the illusory energy. He may be academically a very big title holder, but if he's not God conscious, then his knowledge has been taken away. Real knowledge has been taken away. Asuriṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. These are the symptoms of the atheist class of men. So on the whole, at the present moment, God consciousness must be spread if actually they want peace and prosperity. And those who are in charge of religion, religion means God consciousness. Everyone should combine to spread God consciousness. That is the immediate necessity at the present moment.
Prabhupāda: What?
Reporter: He wants immediate this thing. Yours, in your case, prema comes last. He says, "Give me love, I give you peace." Śānti-prema go śānti lo. (sound of siren) (discussion on siren sound)
Prabhupāda: I think blackout is over. (more discussion on blackout)
Devotee: Shut the shutters on the doors and we'll go right (indistinct).
Reporter: Sir, this is the real present ugly reality here. We are being threatened.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Reporter: This siren is a, shall I say, a very ugly reality before us.
Prabhupāda: You are already in ugly reality always, twenty-four hours. (laughter) Suppose there is no blackout. Still, if you go in the street, is there guarantee that you will go home?
Reporter: Yes.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Religious idea without philosophy is sentiment, and philosophy without religion is mental speculation. They should be combined. Religious idea supported by philosophy. Then it is correct. And philosophy without religious idea is simply mental speculation. They should be combined. That combination of religious idea and philosophy, you'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā, provided you accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is. If you interpret Bhagavad-gītā in your own way, then you'll miss the point. Just like in our country, in India, Bhagavad-gītā has been interpreted in so different ways that people are now bewildered. They do not know what is actually Bhagavad-gītā. Take, for example... Just like in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, dharmakṣetre kurukṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). I think you know Sanskrit. Samavetā yuyutsavaḥ māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāś caiva kim akurvata sañjaya (BG 1.1). Even a great leader, political leader, he has interpreted kurukṣetra as this body. So where is the dictionary where kurukṣetra means this body? But because he's a big political leader that gītā is going on. Kurukṣetra means this body. Pāṇḍava means the five senses. In this way (break) ...they cannot (indistinct) I may tell you frankly. Just like Mahatma Gandhi, he wanted to prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the battlefield, and how he can prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā? Then he has to drag some interpretation out of his own way. But because he's a big leader the people are misled. Similarly, all... at present moment in India the Bhagavad-gītā has becoming a plaything that anyone can interpret in his own way and do all nonsense. But I'll request you, because you are so much interested, and you have already approved Bhagavad-gītā, you have translated. Amongst the leading personalities, you try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is and spread it, it will have immediate effect. That is already experimented. Just like in western countries, before me, hundreds and thousands, swamis and yogis went there. But not a single person could understand what is Bhagavad-gītā, and what is Kṛṣṇa. Now hundreds and thousands of these boys in Europe, America, Canada, Africa, everywhere, Australia, everywhere, they are now become devotees... So they're intelligent persons, they're coming from rich family.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the material elements...
Prabhupāda: You are simply observing the immediate cause. You do not know what is the remote cause. There are two causes, immediate cause and remote cause. Another call: "Efficient cause and..."? The two words?
Brahmānanda: Efficient cause is the ultimate.
Prabhupāda: No, remote cause.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The remote cause is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1). Vedic literature: sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam. The cause of all causes. That is remote cause. Therefore if you understand the sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1), the cause of all causes, then you understand everything. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. If you know the original cause, the later, subordinate causes, you know. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). You do not know the original cause, and when we say... "We say" means when the Vedas says: "Here is the original cause," you won't take it. Although you are searching after the original cause. Is it not? But when Veda,... Veda means knowledge, perfect knowledge. But when gives you: "Here is the original cause." You won't take. You shall stick to your imperfect knowledge. This is your disease. Is it not a disease?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The sun is a product of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes, energy. Yac cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala grahāṇām. Sun is working under the order of... Just like if you don't see the managing director or the proprietor of a firm, the immediate boss who is controlling you, you have to obey. In the office or in the factory. Similarly, you cannot see directly God, but God's agent is working. Why don't you obey? God's agent is working? How it is working? Yasyājñayā bhramati saṁbhṛta-kāla-cakraḥ, exactly in time by the order of Kṛṣṇa, rising exactly in the time, without any deviation even by 1/10,000th part of a second, astrological calculation. Is it not? So how it is working? Under whose order it is working? Śāstra says, "By the order of Kṛṣṇa." Yasya ājñayā. "Under whose order he is working," govindam ādi-puruṣam, "I worship that Govinda." The śāstra is giving you information, that he is working under, he must be working under... Otherwise why it is so accurate, so punctual, unless there is some direction? Unless there is order of God, why this big ocean is so obedient, it is not coming here? Why don't you study like this? Where is the difficulty? There must be some direction that "You Pacific Ocean, you are so big, that's all right, but you cannot come here. Remain up to this." Otherwise why you are feeling so safety although in the front of a big ocean. If the ocean likes, within a second, he can finish us immediately. But she will not do, because there is order. Similarly sun. Sun is also moving under the order. You have to study like that. If you do not see God, see how God's order is being carried out. Then you will understand. Just like we do not see President Nixon. But you know there is direction, and the government is going is going on under his direction. That we can know.
Prabhupāda: This is the real achievement of human life, that jñāna-vairāgya can be achieved simply by bhakti-yoga. Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ (SB 1.2.7). Ah? Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti yo... Janayaty āśu vairāgyam. Janayaty āśu vairāgyam. Just like these boys.
Reporter: Quick detachment.
Prabhupāda: Ah? Immediate...
Reporter: Instant, instant, āśu vairāgya.
Prabhupāda: Āśu vairāgya. They're attached to so many things. Now these young boys, they never ask me that "Give me some money; I shall go to the cinema, I shall smoke, I shall go to the club." They're all young men. Why? Janayaty āśu vairāgyam. They've kicked out all these things. Practically you can see.
Reporter: Yes.
Prabhupāda: They've kicked out all these things. Practically you can see.
Reporter: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Or if you ask them, "Let us go to cinema," they'll never go, even at your expense. (everyone laughs) This is vairāgya. They do not want anything except Kṛṣṇa. They do not want anything except Kṛṣṇa. These boys, young boys, from twenty to thirty years old, they've got to enjoy so many things, especially in this country, the Western countries. How they have given up? Jñāna-vairāgya. Janayaty āśu.
Reporter: Vairāgya, yes.
Prabhupāda: Āśu, "very immediate."
Reporter: Hm. Instant.
Prabhupāda: Instant.
Reporter: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So bhakti-yoga is so powerful. Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ, janayaty āśu vairāgyam... (SB 1.2.7).
Reporter: Is this in the Gītā, in Bhagavad-gītā?
Prabhupāda: No, in Bhāgavatam.
Reporter: Bhāgavatam, yes.
Prabhupāda: This is practical. Big, big politicians, they are sticking to their position up to the point of death. Even Gandhi, unless he was fired, he could not give up.
Reporter: But he was not in power or position.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, could not give up the politics. I wrote Gandhi, "You have so much respect now, now you have got sva-rāja, you give up this business, let us preach Bhagavad-gītā, people will hear you." Before starting this movement, long ago, I wrote him a letter.
Sudāmā: I don't ever want to stop preaching.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Well, preaching, you cannot manufacture preaching. You must do preaching according to the principles ordered by your spiritual master. You cannot manufacture your own way of preaching. That is required. There must be some leader. Under the leadership. Yasya prasādād bhagavat... Why it is said? Everywhere, in the office, there is some immediate boss. So you have to please him. That is service. Suppose in office, in a department there is office superintendent. And if you do in your own way, "Yes, I'm doing my business," and the office superintendent is not pleased, do you think that kind of service is nice? No. Similarly, we have got, everywhere we have got immediate boss. So we must work. That is systematic. If everyone manufactures, invents his own way of life, then there must be chaos.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is the friend of everyone. We don't take His help, that is the difficulty. He says, He's guaranteed, that "If you just surrender to Me, I'll give you all protection." Such a friend who can give, there. But they'll not do that. Actually if one trusts in God, then everything is there, perfectly.
Prajāpati: So if they did trust in God, they would not have all these problems today.
Prabhupāda: No. It is factual. Just like in modern... Immediate problem is the petrol. Nobody trusts in God. The Arabians, they're thinking that this oil, "Our oil." But actually, his father has not manufactured this oil. It is God's oil. None of them believe in God, either the Arabians or the others. Therefore there is crisis. It is practical. Is the petrol manufactured by man? So why a section of man is claiming, "It is my petrol"? If somebody says, "It is my Pacific Ocean," what is this nonsense? Because they are going on under this nonsense ideas, therefore there is problem.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. And therefore...
Devotee: You have to practice...
Prabhupāda: ...the practice is that you should simply desire what your spiritual master says. Don't desire yourself. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. If you fulfill the desires of your spiritual master, then Kṛṣṇa will be pleased." Because he's the representative, the immediate representative, boss, if you satisfy him, the master, supreme master, is also satisfied. If he gives report, "This clerk is doing nice," that is sufficient. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. This is the injunction.
Jayapatākā: So human life was no advantage. Only because you have come, now it can be advantage.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Jayapatākā: Human life is no special advantage. Only if you come, the spiritual master comes, then it can be some advantage.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore Vedic injunction is gurum eva abhigacchet: "You must go to a bona fide spiritual master if you want to make your life perfect." There is no question whether I shall go or not. "You must!" That is the beginning of human life. Otherwise animal life. He has no spiritual master. He's not going to obey anyone. He's working in his own whims. That is animal life. Real life here begins.
Harikeśa: So all of my activities, unless they are directly following your order, are more or less a concoction of my mind.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...office, you cannot contact the proprietor directly. There are subordinate officers. Through them you have to take the proprietor's help. The office master is there. You have to satisfy the office master. You cannot directly approach the proprietor. If you satisfy the office master, then your promotion and other things is all right. But if you want to... I have got practical experience. One of my friend, he was working in office. So the proprietor was there and many other employees were there. So that my friend, he suggested something to the proprietor, and the proprietor immediately dismissed him: "Oh, this man want to suggest me. Dismiss immediately. Give him his pay he will require." In that I have got practical experience. He later on became so sorry. Now it is the process. So this is practical. We should not try to approach directly Kṛṣṇa. That is not the right way. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ: (CC Madhya 13.80) "I am the servant of the servant of." So you have to serve your immediate master, dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ, servant of the Supreme Lord. If you want to jump over the original master, that is not good. Then you will be dismissed like, like my friend.
Harikeśa: Sometimes, due to my conditioning, I cannot exactly understand what you are saying.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you cannot understand what I am saying, then you should ask repeat. Try to understand (indistinct), that "I cannot understand this, and explain." Put it to the immediate president or any Godbrother. If he still, if he cannot explain, if he feels unable, he can inquire to me. In this way.
Harikeśa: What if I don't know, I haven't understood? What if I think I have understood but I have actually not?
Prabhupāda: There are many things like that. So you should try to understand it fully. Why should you understand it haphazardly? You must try to understand fully. (break)
Harikeśa: ...position to criticize his Godbrothers, no matter what?
Prabhupāda: You can criticize, if you are right. You cannot criticize wrongly. (break)
Devotee: ...instructions rather than our sense gratification? (break)
Prabhupāda: It is not right that he says that. Sense gratification is wrong. You cannot gratify your senses. You have to enjoy your senses in the service of the Lord. That is perfection. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate (CC Madhya 19.170). That is our only business.
Prabhupāda: This example is given. Suppose we are walking. This step, when I assure that "This is all right, it is not, it will not go down," then I take up this. Then again this. This example is given. Similarly, change of body like that. As soon as it is settled up what kind of body he is going to accept or which is being offered to him, daiva-netreṇa, by higher authority, then this man leaves this body and again enters in the womb of the body which he is destined to get. This is the process of death.
Yadubara: Is that immediate, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Immediate. Just like immediate I am walking. When it is fixed up, then I take up. Then when it is fixed up, then I take up, like this. Immediately.
Yaśomatīnandana: What about hell? How does the jīva soul go to hell?
Prabhupāda: Yes. They go. Those who are going to hell, that is fixed up very quickly. It doesn't take much time. Hell means he is getting the next body, hellish body. That's all. Suppose he is going to get the hellish body to become the worm of stool, so in that way he enters the worm, mother worm, to get the body and enjoy the hell. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Well, people are now shameless, you see? They are being kicked in so many ways. We are giving the prescription, "Here is the remedy," but they are not taking to it. But they will take it. Some of them will take it, provided you remain also ideal. If you become also degraded, then who will take it? Ideal character, ideal behavior, ideal preaching. People will appreciate. (break) ...pure character or position, people will take, in any condition. There may be revolution or no revolution. They will take it. (break) ...that our movement is actually good. They will take in any condition. That standard we must maintain. Somebody... Yes, Balavanta, when he was speaking against smoking, one candidate—he was important man—he was smoking. Immediately he wanted to hide. (laughter) So immediate effect was there. He understood that "Yes, this is bad habit." So people will take it, any condition, provided you are ideal. Āpani ācari prabhu jīveri śikṣāya. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement. He teaches others by behaving Himself. "Example is better than precept." If you cannot rise early in the morning, then how can you ask others to rise early in the morning? What is the effect? There is no effect. We have got business early in the morning, to attend maṅgala ārati. And if you sleep yourself and teach others, so who will take it? (break) ...we have introduced. Very, very simple thing. But still, if he cannot... (break) ...(indistinct) Mahārāja. He is, he admitted him, smārta paṇḍita, but he cannot rise early in the morning. Never. And he is imitating the smārta paṇḍitas. You know that? Smārta, and one pot, and this and that and āsana (laughing).
Monsignor Verrozano: Could you be so kind to say to us something about your movement which is spread in the world.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Our movement is that, that is first-class religious system which teaches how to love God. This is the sum and substance of our movement. There is a Sanskrit statement in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam,
- sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo
- yato bhaktir adhokṣaje
- ahaituky apratihatā
- yayātmā suprasīdati
- (SB 1.2.6)
If you want to be happy, then you must take to the superior type of religious system which teaches the followers how to love God without any motive, and which is never checked by any material condition. God's name is given here as Adhokṣaja. Adhokṣaja means beyond experimental knowledge. God has got many name according to different situation, and one of the name, for the materialistic person, adhokṣaja. Akṣaja means experimental knowledge. Akṣa means eyes or senses. Beyond sense perception. So we cannot speculate about God, but we can understand about God from authorities. This is the conception of Bhāgavata-dharma. So the human life is especially meant for understanding God. That is the version of the Vedānta-sūtra, Vedānta philosophy. The Vedānta philosophy teaches, athāto brahma jijñāsā, "Now this human form of body, which is above the lower grades of forms..." There are 8,400,000 forms of body. The soul is transmigrating, evolution. But when we get this human form of body, our main business is to inquire about God. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Now, if somebody inquires what is God, the immediate reply is, God is the source, original source of everything. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1).
Satsvarūpa: Then the next question is where do you get your knowledge. Like that boy asked in the airport.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet. Go to guru. Guru. Yes. (indistinct) Who is guru? Śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham: who has heard from the Vedas perfect knowledge and who is fixed up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is guru. Everything is there. Immediate answer is tad-vijñānārtham. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This life is for inquiring where shall I go for knowledge? Athāto brahma-jiñāsā.
- tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet
- samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham
- (MU 1.2.12)
Everything is there. When they were building this costly skyscraper, they forgot that this skyscraper will be the same fate as there were big, big Roman buildings two thousand years ago. Because I will have to leave. Although the building is very solid, it will not be destroyed within five thousand years, but you are not going to live here for five thousand years. You can live for fifty years sir. Then go away. Then it will be relic. That's all. So why don't you make guarantee, that "I have made this strong building to stand for five thousand... Let me live also." Where is your that knowledge? This is illusion. They know it, that "I shall not be able to live in this house. I shall not get the duration of life as big as this building will have. Then why am I wasting my energy in this way? I shall be zero after fifty years." What is this knowledge? You are not also going to enjoy. Then he is pleased that "My sons and grandsons and..." Who is your grandson? Who is your son? That he does not know. Nobody's son, nobody's grandson. Everyone is coming just like we have come, and they will go away. So similarly, they are coming and going. This is... No knowledge.
Prabhupāda: What is religious sentiment? (French for some time)
Jyotirmayī: He says again that in India, now also there's a big struggle because they are trying to solve the immediate problems of hunger, you know, all these problems, now, and, of course, there is a religious people on the side of those who are struggling, but there's also religious people on the other side, of those who want to keep the situation as it is now... And then he said that...
Prabhupāda: Religious people wants to keep the situation? Starving? Starving situation? (French for some time)
Bhagavān: You don't understand what he's saying now? Because he has a different translation.
Pṛthu Putra: Because what he says, he says on the both parts, they are based on a passage of Bhagavad-gītā. The imperialist people and the other side, they do both, sometimes on the base of Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: Who?
Pṛthu Putra: The communists and the imperialists. And he sees some names, Rajagopalacharya.
Jyotirmayī: This man, for example, the one that he just cite, he is also a religious man, but he is against the change now. He wants to keep as it is imperialism. You know. So he said that there are so many of these people who are religious and they are, of course, all they have good goals, that is to help people. You find people referring Bhagavad-gītā on the side of those who are struggling now to change the situation and the side, on the side of those who are keeping the situation as it is. So he says there is an ambiguity there.
Prabhupāda: Ambiguity means he is not clear in his knowledge. What is religion and what is liberation—these things he does not know clearly.
Bali Mardana: Police state.
Prabhupāda: Police state? And why they are declaring Commonwealth and, British Commonwealth. So if it is governed by the police, how it is Commonwealth? There should be very strong agitation. And all the Hindus will join. So who will organize it? Don't make it childish. It is very serious. (pause) Police should have taken task when the rules were broken by Mahādeva. Why they did not take action in that time? They did not say anything. Police, if there is discrepancy, violation of the rules, they should have taken immediate action. Why they did not take? Now they have manufactured by conspiracy that "This movement should be stopped. Now take this plea." This is going on.
Bali Mardana: They could even have been paid off.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Bali Mardana: Perhaps they were also paid off to stop it.
Prabhupāda: Paid off or not paid off, it doesn't matter. But actually it is stopped. And if we simply cede, then there is no future hope of this movement. Better, in spite of their "No" order, we shall take the...
Bali Mardana: Take the ratha there.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Bali Mardana: But even devotees who are following. They like to preach that.
Prabhupāda: No, that is not. That is not. Just like even in ordinary business, if you transact business in the stock association, you get good business. And outside the stock association you don't get. Because association is there, there are many purchaser and many seller. So if you have to sell, you get immediate purchaser. And if you have to purchase, there is immediate seller. That is... Therefore the stock exchange is there. That is the way, that if we live together in the stock exchange of devotional service, then you can help me; I can help you. So our business will go on nicely. And outside the market, you can live three hundred miles away from the stock exchange. You will not get so many business. Like that.
Devotee (2): You'll miss the opportunities.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore it is helpful. If you want to do business, you must take the first opportunity, the greatest opportunity, do your business. That is intelligence. And if we think, "All right, I shall do slowly. In seven hundred lives I shall become perfect," that is another thing.
Rūpānuga: But when Brahmā creates, does he first of all create the aquatics, then the plants?
Prabhupāda: No.
Rūpānuga: No, everything is at once. There's no gradual, it is all immediate.
Prabhupāda: There is a process, from aquatics to this, this, this, this, but when there is creation, all of them come at once.
Rūpānuga: So that process is transmigration of the soul.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Rūpānuga: That is evolution.
Prabhupāda: So in the last creation, if somebody could not come to the human form of body, now again he will be able to come. Therefore the creation is there. Another chance is given.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Ekala īśvara kṛṣṇa ara saba bhṛtya. "Only master is Kṛṣṇa. Everyone is servant." Accept this principle and everything will be all right immediately. Immediately. If you study the whole Bhagavad-gītā, where is any word there which you can refute or which is not good for you? Study whole Bhagavad-gītā. All practical and very congenial for human civilization. Kṛṣṇa teaches from the very beginning, "First of all learn what you are. You are not this body. You are within this body." Now, who knows this? This is the first study. As soon as you understand that "I am not this body, I am within this body," immediate you understand what is spirit. Then your spiritual knowledge advances further. But these rascals, they do not know what is spirit, what is spiritual knowledge.
Devotee: They think that cows don't have a spirit.
Prabhupāda: They may think like anything, rascal. Do you believe that?
Devotee: Yes, they have spirit...
Prabhupāda: No, you believe it or not? They say, but whether you believe it or not?
Devotee: The spirit soul makes the body work. That's evidence that the spirit's inside.
Prabhupāda: Yes, how you can say there is no spirit? You have got spirit. Your body is moving. You are walking. You are eating. You are talking. And as soon as the spirit is gone, then it is dead matter, bulk. The hand is there; it will not work. The leg is there; it will not work. So where is the difference between the cow's body and your body? Come to human reasoning. You say there is no spirit, so how you say? Where is the difference between your body and cow's body?
Prabhupāda: He accepted him as learned scholar, but He did not accept him as very highly realized soul.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, you explained that before. His guru, Vallabhācārya's guru, is... He's in Mādhavendra Purī's line?
Prabhupāda: Hm? No.
Acyutānanda: Viṣṇu Svāmī...
Prabhupāda: They come in the Viṣṇu Svāmī. I do not exactly know who was his immediate guru.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. I'm just trying to clear these points up because, I remember when I was preaching in South India, this discussion came up, that... Just like Mādhavendra Purī, he found the Deity of Gopāla, and you've explained...
Prabhupāda: That is our Gauḍīya. Mādhavendra Purī is Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. You explained how he was worshiping the Deity. Now, that Deity of Gopāla...
Acyutānanda: Śrīnāthjī.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīnāthjī. So that Deity was eventually handed over?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: She has written one article in our Back to Godhead. I am quoting from that.
Brahmānanda: "...in ignorance performed at an improper time and place to an unworthy person like a gambler or a drunkard, or contemptuously, without respect. Charity in passion, performed to get something in return with a desire for fruitive results or in a grudging mood. Charity in goodness, performed as a duty and at the proper time and place to a worthy person and with no expectation of material returns. And charity in pure goodness, performed only to satisfy the Supreme Lord. In the śāstras charity in passion and ignorance is completely rejected, although people do it unconsciously. Charity in goodness only is recommended. Point Eight: Proper and beneficial use of the income and property of the institutions and how far the policies of the government and the exercise of its authority in its behalf are just and proper. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī was the chief minister of the government of Nawab Hussein Shah. He gave us a good example how to divide the property in the society. Fifty percent of the income must be spent for Kṛṣṇa, twenty-five percent of the income should be spent for family, and twenty-five percent should be kept in reserve for emergency expenditure. Spending fifty percent of the income for Kṛṣṇa means for the whole society by encouraging the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Point Nine: The role of manava-dharma pariṣat. I think that if the manava-dharma pariṣat takes these suggestions of mine very seriously, certainly it will be of great benefit to the Indians and the whole world. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is going on on this principle, and if the pariṣat inaugurated by you cooperates with us, certainly we can render a very great service to the human society. So far manava-dharma is concerned, it should not be restricted within the Indian borders, because human beings are in all parts of the world. Point Ten: The manava-dharma mission, its constitution and program. Therefore the constitution of manava-dharma or the institution of varṇāśrama must be interesting for the whole world, and it should be exemplified by practical demonstration. The immediate program should be village organization as Mahatma Gandhi contemplated. In India the majority of the population is in the villages. The difficulty is that there is no sufficient supply of water to produce food grains. Mother nature, or mother Durgā, punishes the godless demons by restricting the supply of food grains. The godless demons are very enthusiastic to produce motorcars, skyscrapers, brothels, and cinemas, and many unnecessary demands of the body, but they are not interested in producing food grains. This is the defect of the modern society. If food grains are produced in an organized way, human society can produce ten times what they are presently producing. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is confirmed,
- annād-bhavanti bhūtāni
- parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ
- yajñād bhavati parjanyo
- yajñaḥ karma-samudbhavaḥ
- (BG 3.14)
I hope you will give your serious consideration to my suggestions, and I am prepared to cooperate with you to my best capacity if you think my suggestions are right."
Prabhupāda: This suggestion is to you also. (chuckles) And if you can do these things organizedly, certainly it will be beneficial to the whole human society.
Prabhupāda: Perfect knowledge you can immediately, provided you take knowledge from the perfect. If you receive knowledge from a bogus person, then how you can have perfect knowledge? Knowledge has to be received from a person. Why shall I go to a school, college, teachers, guru? To receive knowledge. So if your teacher, guru or parent, those who are your superior, if they are perfect, then you get perfect knowledge. But if your teacher is a bogus, then you get bogus knowledge.
Carol: And this is immediate, is it?
Amogha: She says is this immediate, the reception of perfect knowledge?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like we are giving knowledge from Bhagavad-gītā. This is perfect knowledge. You take it; you become perfect.
Carol: And your actions are perfect actions?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Amogha: And your actions are perfect actions?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find—you have read Bhagavad-gītā? No.
Carol: Mmm.
Prabhupāda: It is said, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. Think of God. So we are doing this. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa—we are thinking of Kṛṣṇa. THe direction is there, and we are doing that. Therefore my action is perfect. If the physician says that you take this medicine in such and such dose, you don't do this, and do this. If I follow, then I'm cured, perfect.
Prabhupāda: Problem is already there and if they think it is not problem, then what can be said? By nature's way, if the husband takes care of the wife and children, this problem is solved immediately. But the man takes advantage. He goes away after making the woman pregnant. And the woman is embarrassed and the government is embarrassed.
Harikeśa: And the child grows up to be a criminal.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Hippies. That is another problem. So they are not far-seeing. The immediate benefit they want. What will be the effect? That is animal civilization. Animal cannot see what will be the future. Therefore we have to take advice from Kṛṣṇa. One who knows past, present, and future. Everything is there. We are spreading this knowledge, that "Take your council from Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll be happy." That is our program.
Satsvarūpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, if we speak these things on television and the newspapers and people become angry, if all the people become angry like she does, is it still good propaganda for us?
Prabhupāda: No, then we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. We don't make disturbance. But in the Bhagavad-gītā everything is discussed, this varṇa-saṅkara and the first-class man, second-class man. If we have to push on Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, then we have to discuss. But if they do not like, better chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and don't discuss anything. But these things are discussed. If you are not agreeable to hear from Bhagavad-gītā, then let us chant together Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. But these things are discussed in the Bhagavad-gītā about varṇa-saṅkara. If the population, varṇa-saṅkara, is increased, then it becomes hell. So if you want to increase the hellish person, then don't discuss. But if you think it is a problem, then discuss.
Prabhupāda: What is that mystic power?
Indian Man (2): I don't know what they show it, some sort of...
Prabhupāda: You do not know?
Indian Man (2): Some ji(?), they make it like that and this and that. They make the fool people. How can we convince that something, that knowledge is there. But they want immediate to know it to believe it.
Prabhupāda: That is their rascaldom. One wants to be learned without going to the school. Is it possible? So they are rascals. What can be done? They don't want to go to school and take the training, and they want to pass M.A. examination. This is their proposal. So these rascals should be kicked out. That's all.
(break) ...is: tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena (BG 4.34). First of all you surrender; then you ask question. The rascals first of all will question. And when he is satisfied, they will surrender. This is not the process. The process is first of all surrender; then question. Otherwise you have no right to question, waste time. (break) ...is the sinful part of water. This is sinful part. There is sinful water and pious water also. So this water is sinful. Drinking of this water is prohibited.
Kartikeya: Yes.
Prabhupāda: "Never mind I am going to be a dog next life."
Kartikeya: They are not knowing anything today. They continue to live as it is.
Prabhupāda: Śreyaḥ, preyaḥ, immediate. This is Western civilization. Tathā dehāntara-praptiḥ (BG 2.13). (Hindi) In the material world, even in the position of Indra, king of heaven, he has got also so many problems. Is there any temple?
Kartikeya: Yes. Śiva temple.
Prabhupāda: Newly constructed?
Kartikeya: No, it is quite old, but they go on adding small buildings for the public hall and all those. Suppose you have to have some program. They can give us a hall for marriage and for...
Harikeśa: This is where we had the paṇḍāl in 1972?
Kartikeya: No, it was a little bit on the other side. It was very near to this place.
Harikeśa: Stayed in Nasi? (?)
Kartikeya: Ah, you stayed here.
Prabhupāda: We shall go this way?
Kartikeya: You can go in the garden.
Prabhupāda: (break) He is going out of station? (break) ...such parks as in America.
Prabhupāda: Capacity of the container. This is described in the Bhāgavata and the Caitanya-caritāmṛta also. Kṛṣṇa śakti vina nahe kṛṣṇa nāme pracāra: "Without Kṛṣṇa's special power of attorney, nobody can preach His name." Caitanya-caritāmṛta. So these rascals, Godbrothers, they are envious that... What he has written? Bon Mahārāja. Just see what kind of men they are. They are not even ordinary human being. They are envious of me, and what to speak of make a judgment by estimation? They're envious. Enviousness is immediately disqualification of Vaiṣṇava, immediate. He is not a human being. Paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ (SB 1.1.2). This Bhāgavatam is meant for the person who is completely not envious. That is the beginning. Why a Vaiṣṇava should be envious for anyone? Everyone is working according to his karma. He is trying to rectify him, that "Be out of these clutches of karma. You come to bhakti." Why he should be envious? Vāñchā-kalpatarubhyaś ca kṛpā-sindhubhya eva ca. A Vaiṣṇava should be like ocean of mercy to reclaim the fallen souls. That is Vaiṣṇava's qualification. So Vaiṣṇava should be envious? Just see. So these persons, they are not even human being, what to speak of Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava cannot be envious. Vaiṣṇava should be: "Oh, my Lord's name is being broadcast. He is getting, giving so much service to make Kṛṣṇa known." That man has appreciated, that "All these spiritual leaders, they are deriding. You are the only man... You are... It enthuses us, give us more encouragement, that you are keeping intact, love of Kṛṣṇa." This is an appreciation.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Symptoms are there.
Dr. Patel: Cause of the cause of the cause.
Prabhupāda: Yes. These are only outward...
Dr. Patel: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Yes. There are.... In logic there are two causes: immediate cause and remote cause. So remote cause is taken into consideration.
Dr. Patel: The important cause is the Kali-yuga.
Prabhupāda: That Vijaya Datta(?) is interested for gurukula.
Girirāja: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Why not construct a big building for gurukula here? The students will be trained up to come here and sporting, having nice bath and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and build up their character. And in Bombay you will get many children, because there are so many rich men. They are not so much concerned to make their children technologist. If they get good education and character, they will give. Technologists they can purchase. Birla, they are not going to be technologist. They purchase technologist. I have seen in many respectable Marwari house. They don't send their children to school. They don't send.
Prabhupāda: Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho 'nādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ (SB 10.2.32).
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Practically, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we see that we're dealing mostly with karmīs, not with jñānīs, in our preaching work.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: And they are simply interested in some immediate satisfaction.
Prabhupāda: Karmīs not. Vikarmī. Karmī, vikarmī, akarmī. We are dealing with vikarmī.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Vikarma, oh. Prohibited actions.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Karmīs will not do anything sinful.
Guru-kṛpā: Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4).
Prabhupāda: Vikarma, yes.
Devotee (2): So why do we call them karmīs?
Prabhupāda: Vikarmīs, opposite karmī.
Devotee (2): So there's practically no karmīs.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sinful.
Prabhupāda: Sinful activities, duṣkṛtinaḥ. Vikarma. Therefore they will be punished in different forms of life. Therefore we find so many species of life, forms of life. This is punishment. But māyā's curtain, they are thinking, "We are happy." Just like this tree is a punishment, but it has no sense that this is punishment.
Prabhupāda: Rascal, this weakness..., you are already necessity of so many things. Make all the necessities zero. At last we at least feel necessity of a woman. (laughing) That you cannot avoid. And then you'll be punished with shoes. (laughing) When you'll become a servant of woman, then you, "No, what is the necessity?" Become thief, you'll become rascal, rogue, you'll be beaten by shoes, and everything is gone. Now these are your necessities. Hippies, they have left no necessities, but the woman is there. (laughing) They have necessities there. Nature is so powerful you'll have to feel this necessity, and with this necessity you'll require so many necessities. (Sanskrit) They're talking like madmen. What the madman does not talk, and what the goat does not eat? (laughing) Means rascals.
Hari-śauri: It boils down to this question of independence.
Prabhupāda: Ha?
Hari-śauri: They all want to be independent, but there's no chance.
Devotee (4): (break) ...in the kingdom of God, then he can become independent.
Prabhupāda: The idea of God is not for everyone. Only for the brāhmaṇas. Those who are brāhmaṇas at death, brahma-jānāti vibrāhmaṇa. Our process is to give them chance to hear. Then they'll get gradually idea, not immediate. In the beginning let him eat prasādam, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. (break) "My dear friend, please come. Chant with us, dance with us, and take prasādam." There will be no.... (end)
Prabhupāda: No, whatever (unclear). Silver is not half price. Silver, little less than new one. They purchase one rupee less. It was 200 rupees new, and the purchaser will take 190 (unclear) ...India they use (unclear). Bell metal, copper...
Hari-śauri: Aluminium is becoming very popular now, aren't they?
Prabhupāda: They don't use aluminium much. If they have got excess money, they invest in metal-gold, silver, copper, bell metal.... Immediate loan—you can mortgage the metal pots, the metal ornaments, you get money immediately. (break) ...in a year, that is a metal purchasing ceremony. Every family will purchase, according to his means, some metal pots once in a year. Dhantraivesi(?) (indistinct) means desire some funds. So if there's some extra money—not big, big men; middle class storeman—they invest in metal purchase. If there is a good business day, (unclear) all the utensils (unclear). You know Diwali, Diwali?
Devotee (2): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Just one day before Diwali.
Devotee (2): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Huge quantity of metals. Everyone will count (indistinct) (end)
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Arnold Weiss: So your chances are very, very little, and God, of course, understands this.
Prabhupāda: No, chances are very little, and chance is immediate. Ordinarily, the chance is very little, but if you accept what God says, immediately... Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated,
- bahūnāṁ janmanām ante
- jñānavān māṁ prapadyate
- vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti
- sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ
- (BG 7.19)
So by regular process, it will take many, many births, bahūnāṁ janmanām. When he is actually jñānavān, then he surrenders to God, and he understands vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti: (BG 7.19) "Everything is Vasudeva." Sa mahātmā sudur... So if we are intelligent, we can take this verse seriously, that "Although it is very difficult to understand Vasudeva"—it takes many, many births to understand this fact—"but if one has to come to this point, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19), why not do it immediately?" That is intelligence. So if we surrender to God immediately, the thing is very easy; it is a task of one minute only. But if you don't do that, then it is difficult. Go on, birth after birth, birth after birth.
Jackie Vaughn: That's an immediate need, and...
Prabhupāda: Immediate, you can think like that, but there is no benefit, immediate or belated. There is no actual benefit. The unmarried girls are given this welfare, what is called?
Jackie Vaughn: Welfare.
Prabhupāda: But still they are killing their children. Becoming more and more involved in sinful activities.
Jackie Vaughn: As a lawmaker, I would like to change that whole, what we call, vicious cycle.
Prabhupāda: You can change, but if you do not change for the real good, then time will come, another change, another change. That is going on. Just like in Russia they wanted to change. They brought in revolution. But what is changed? They are still begging grains from America. So what is the use of that change? If you have to beg from other country for your food, then what is the benefit of such change? So this is going on. One thing established, and again it is changed. That is described in the śāstra: punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Chewing the chewed. Just like sugarcane. One has taken the juice by chewing and thrown it in the street, and somebody again takes it and chew it, what he will get it? It is already chewed. Experiment. So all, everything has been experimented. Big, big empires, big, big society, big, big nation. That Hitler, he wanted to make something big. Napoleon wanted to make something big. Nothing big has been done. Where is Napoleon? Where is Hitler? So these are all temporary attempts. It is sure to be failure. Because they do not know how to do things. That is the defect. They are simply imagining, concoction. Here is a practical and sure proposal in the Bhagavad-gītā. God comes and He's giving personal instruction, that "Do things like this." Your economic problem, your political problem, your social problem, everything.... You ask any question, any problem, the answer is there, perfect. All problems. Why people should not take this perfect answer to all problems? That is intelligence. Experiment we have made so many materially. They have all failed. We were under British rule. So where is that British rule now? And before that, there was Roman Empire, Carthagian Empire, Egyptian Empire, so many, Mogul Empire, then British Empire, now your American Empire. But these things will not help.
Prabhupāda: You keep this. We shall have to show to the Indian government authorities.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: " 'Just as it has dealt with black marketers and smugglers, it is high time the government took immediate action to round up all those who claim supernatural powers.' While he was happy that Bangalore University has already established a committee to investigate miracles and superstitions, he cautioned them to be very careful, as even the scientists were not infallible."
Prabhupāda: How many scientists?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They are also fallible, they can also make mistakes. "Experts Misled: For instance, investigators in universities in the West were known to be misled by tricksters who claimed para-psychological powers." Like ESP.
Prabhupāda: They invent some big, big words (laughter). Aparkalasvena-vargolas-double-wakundali-gondolais (gibberish). (laughter)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "One of them was Uri Geller, an ordinary street magician who succeeded in hoodwinking two scientists of the Stanford Research Institute. He claimed that he was able to perform miracles with psychic powers obtained from a computerized brain thirteen million light years away in space." Very far away in space there's a computerized brain that he's using.
Hari-śauri: This guy, Uri Geller, he had a stage show. He would get one iron bar and stare at it, and the iron bar would bend, like this. And he could bend, he could put a spoon in the open palm of his hand, and it would bend. Things like this he was doing, and he became very famous overnight.
Prabhupāda: By bending iron.
Prabhupāda: Changed, or another body you have got. Change means another body. If you dress your child, you get another.(?) So it is simple truth. So you have got another body or another dress, but you are still living. This simple truth they cannot understand, and they are advanced in education.
Kathy Kerr: Does that mean then that once the immediate corporal body is dead, the one that you have...
Prabhupāda: Yes. We have to conclude.... This is, what is called, logic, that my, I have changed my body, still I am living. Therefore when I change this body, I shall live. This is the logic.
Kathy Kerr: Does your spiritual body keep the same training that you...
Prabhupāda: Same, that is another.... Just like you are in different type of dress, I am in different type of dress, that is another thing. Dress may be changed in different types, but I, the owner of the dress, is the same. Now a person, the same person, when he's dressed as a high-court judge, he's dealing differently in the high-court. And the same person, after giving up his garment of high-court judge, he talks with the wife and children in a different way, talking. The wife does not address him, "My lord." The wife calls, Mr. John. "John, why you are doing this?" She has no respect, as the respect he gets in the court. Man is the same, circumstance is different.
Indian man: Is this agreement due to learning or out of...?
Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya mām (BG 18.66), you surrender, you become qualified. You agree, "Yes, I surrender, Kṛṣṇa says." Then immediately you become qualified. But that you do not do. Kṛṣṇa is personally canvassing, but we are not agreeing. What can be done? If I say, with a bag of million dollars, "Take this bag," if you don't agree, then you remain poor man. But you agree, "Yes, without any labor I'm getting the million dollars. Well, all right." Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). To come to that Kṛṣṇa consciousness rightly and surrender to Kṛṣṇa, it takes many millions of births. But if one is intelligent, if this is the ultimate goal, that one has to come to this point, to surrender to Vāsudeva, why not do it immediately? That is intelligence. That is intelligence. Kṛṣṇa is canvassing. One has to take millions of births to come to this point, and Kṛṣṇa is personally promising, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). Why not take advantage? That means you do not agree. If you agree, the result is immediate. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). They are thinking, "Ah, Kṛṣṇa is also human being like me. Why shall I surrender to Him?" They are mūḍha. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ. Then remain a rascal. What can be done? We have got little independence, because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is fully independent. But because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, we have got little independence, so we can refuse. Although Kṛṣṇa canvassing, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), we can refuse: "Why shall I surrender to You?" That is our misfortune. But if you agree, you get immediate result. Therefore this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. To agree, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Because we have got so many nasty, dirty things within our heart, we cannot agree.
Prabhupāda: Just see. Why defense? Man to man. That means they are dogs. The dogs defend from another dog. Is it not? As soon as they see another dog, (growls) yow, yow, yow. So then where is the defense between man to man?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They're worried now that they won't be able to disarm, the article was saying, because, somehow or another, there's going to be a disaster unless there is immediate disarmament. But they don't think it's possible.
Prabhupāda: No. How they can disarm? They have been trained up like dogs to bark and fight. How there can be disarmament?
Hari-śauri: They've been talking about disarmament for who knows how long.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Hari-śauri: They've been talking about disarmament for years and years together. But they're simply increasing. There's no disarmament.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Even within the different religions they are fighting amongst each other.
Prabhupāda: No, no. This religion is also bogus. How the dogs can understand religion? It is simply woax.
Kīrtanānanda: Our community is gaining in opulence.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Dhānyena dhanavān. If you have got grain, then you are rich. And if you have got cows, then you are rich. This is the standard of Vedic richness. Dhānyena dhanavān gavayo dhanavān. They don't say, "Keep some papers and you become rich." All rascal, one thousand dollar I promise to pay, a piece of paper. Practical, we have got enough food grains. We have got enough... That is richness. What is use of paper? Even gold you have got, you have to exchange. And if you have grain, immediate food. Just boil with milk, and it is nectarean, param anna, immediately. Take some wood collected from the wood and have fire, put the milk and the grains-oḥ, you'll get so nice food, nutritious, full of vitamin, and so easily made. It is practical. So tasteful, so nutritious, and don't require. If you simply boil little milk and little grain, whole day, so much sweet rice, you take-bas. You don't require any more. And if you add little apples and fruits, oh, it is heavenly. Your whole day free from any food anxiety, and you can work. And you can work. You can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Make this ideal life here. America has got good potency. We have got so much land here. We can have hundreds of New Vrindabans or farms like that. And people will be happy. And invite all the world, "Please come and live with us. Why you are suffering congestion, overpopulation? Welcome here. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." Make that. Indian culture and American strength make the whole world happy. That logic even I have given? Andha-paṅgu?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Blind and lame.
Prabhupāda: India could not improve on account of poverty, lame. And America? Blind for want of culture. So let the blind man carry the lame man on the head, and the lame man give direction that "Go this way," and he walks. So both men's work is done. There is no hampering because one is blind and one is lame. Combined together, they get the benefit. Andha-paṅgor nyāya.
Prabhupāda: It was not used.
Rūpānuga: It was simply for office, like that. And the temple building was a gymnasium. It used to be a gymnasium, and we have converted the whole thing.
Vipina: That was one reason that we were very much attracted to the property. The property itself was not very beautiful when we came, but the gym was built, and we saw it as an immediate temple where we could hold kīrtana and preach. So we then made a contract and the fish bit.
Prabhupāda: Nobody was taking.
Vipina: No one was taking it.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Our Detroit property is like that.
Rūpānuga: White elephant.
Prabhupāda: Nobody was taking, but it was quite suitable for us. And that is the finest property. You have seen it?
Rūpānuga: I have not been there. I have seen photographs.
Vṛṣākapi: I have seen it.
Prabhupāda: Is it not?
Vṛṣākapi: It is the finest, the finest.
Prabhupāda: And we have got very cheap. One room will cost three hundred thousand, it is so costly. They said they spend about two millions dollars fifty years ago.
Prabhupāda: That is impatience. That is impatience. Either he does not do properly his duty, or he is impatient.
Hari-śauri: Impatience means fruitive. Fruitive. He's looking for some results.
Prabhupāda: Immediate result, immediately.
Vipina: But isn't there a point, Prabhupāda, at which, you know, you can expect that you've been doing the right things, so there should be some relief?
Prabhupāda: Everything takes time. Suppose a girl is married. So she wants a child. It does not mean today she's married and next day child. It is not possible. Wait. You'll have child.
Devotee (1): That is faith, Prabhupāda? If the woman has faith in the husband...?
Prabhupāda: Faith or no faith, if they live husband and wife, there will be child. That's all. (break)
Vipina: That's why they had to build this canal, because it was too rocky for boats. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...potency of hari-nāma-kīrtana, everyone will join. We have to be sincerely working, then everything... Kṛṣṇa will. Natural, even child, drunkard, sane man, everyone was.
Prabhupāda: Lusty desire, that is their theory, that's all. But the lusty desire is not the cause. The cause is the semina.
Harikeśa: But the lusty desire is the cause of the semina.
Prabhupāda: That is one of the cause, there are many causes. Remote causes, immediate causes, there are many causes.
Harikeśa: But that's the original cause.
Prabhupāda: What is that original cause?
Harikeśa: That lust.
Prabhupāda: Original for you because you are rascal. But there is another cause before that.
Harikeśa: But we don't see that cause.
Prabhupāda: That is your poor fund of knowledge. You are seeing simply some immediate cause. That is your poor fund of knowledge. Cause after cause, cause after cause, that is a study, a real study. If that is the cause, then you prepare that semina.
Prabhupāda: Money is concerned, you'll get any amount. Now organize and (indistinct).
Dhanañjaya: Now, another thing I wanted to ask. Many devotees were asking me if we could make a Deity of Your Divine Grace.
Prabhupāda: That is not very, well... That is not immediate. We shall see later on. You can make. That we shall see later on. Not immediately. Immediately you make this arrangement.
Dhanañjaya: And for design of Gaura-Nitāi and Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, we should just use the same design or we should make better?
Prabhupāda: Make a hand design like that and have your people make like that. Make a nice...
Dhanañjaya: Make, yes. I mean, better design.
Prabhupāda: Yes, make a better design. And the hand will be like this.
Dhanañjaya: Not like this. I like this myself. It's Navadvīpa style.
Prabhupāda: This is Navadvīpa style.
Prabhupāda: He says, "Important Hindu sect." How they can say whether it is a genuine? Important, not only genuine but important, Vaisnavism.
Hari-śauri: Hm. (continues reading) "...whose worship of Lord Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu, in one of His many forms is one of the most important religions of India. The American devotees of ISKCON worship Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Being, the highest Personality of Godhead, whose worship according to the archaeological and epigraphic evidence, is pre-Christian in origin, as found in India's early sacred texts, the Ṛg Veda, Atharva Veda, etc. The detailed history of Kṛṣṇa's incarnation is found in the religious text of the Bhāgavata Purāṇa, and the philosophical basis of the Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement is found in India's most sacred book the Bhagavad-gītā. These sacred texts and others have been translated and commented upon by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda and are being studied today in many major universities across the United States. The particular form of Vaisnavism of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement dates from Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu, one of India's saints born in 1486 A.D. in Nadia, India. His immediate followers organized this philosophy in a number of Sanskrit texts, and His religious practices such as chanting and dancing are most authentically represented in America by the Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees according to this tradition. Lord Caitanya, worshiped as the last incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, initiated a disciplic succession. In the mid-19th century, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura appeared in this spiritual lineage. Soon afterwards, his son Bhaktisiddhānta, Sarasvatī became the spiritual master of India's Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavas, and his most prominent student was Śrīla Prabhupāda. It was at Bhaktisiddhānta's command that Śrīla Prabhupāda later came to America to bring the teachings and practices of Caitanya to the West. My study of these American devotees, which I have pursued since 1968, was published in my book, Hare Krishna and the Counter-culture, published by John Wiley and Sons in 1974, New York. The sociological data revealed through a detailed questionnaire and many hours of taped interviews, indicates that many of the devotees had been influenced by the hippie culture of the 1960's. However, after they joined the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, their lives became completely changed from a life of drugs, illicit sex, and violence to one of dedication to a spiritual discipline and morality and to helping others in their search for happiness. In this period of rapid social and cultural change..."
Prabhupāda: This is the fact, in many cases. So many drunkards, so many violence... This is... (name witheld)?
Haṁsadūta: (name witheld).
Prabhupāda: Big drunkard.
Prabhupāda: Change is no rectification. If somebody is not working he should be trained up. Changing is another... If he is a fool, another fool will come. What will be the difficulty? You see? Change, of course, sometimes required but if you constantly change, the man is not trained up. That practice is not good. If somebody is not doing satisfactorily, then he should be trained up that "You should like this." And if you immediately change another that, that is not actually solution because all our workers, they are not accustomed to certain type of duty. They are devotee, after all. So still, we have to do something, so one man requires little training. But whatever capacity he has got, he is posted, so immediate change, that is not very good management. Let him be reformed and whatever inability he has got, he should be instructed and he should be... And this, all of a sudden change, simply go on changing, nobody... "Rolling stone never gathers moss." A "rolling stone" policy is not good. So what is the difficulty? Keep the stone in a place and it will gather moss. And if you simply roll, it will never gather moss. If the man who has committed mistake, he should be reformed. He should be instructed. Sometimes I show your cleaners by myself, "Do like this." Change them, immediate change, that is not good management, and to make him competent in that way, that is management. So this policy should be followed, not that because he has done something not correctly he should be changed immediately. That will not help. Now discuss this point.
Prabhupāda: He is preaching his own ideas and taking Bhagavad-gītā.
Guest (1): Under the umbrella of Bhagavad-gītā he does it.
Prabhupāda: Smoking gāñjā with a friend's hand because there is smell, so the friend's hand will smell. (Hindi) (laughter) This is going on. (Hindi)
Guest (1): There will be immediate protest the moment... This film has got the connotation that Hare Kṛṣṇa means... Now, these boys, by their own conduct and by their own hard work, whosoever has come into contact with them have realized that this is genuine and actually...
Prabhupāda: No, you see, something cheating which is going on for long time, to stop it, it will take some time.
Guest (1): Yes. Unless and until the people who are well-to-do...
Prabhupāda: We have got one little test. You can also use that. Kṛṣṇa says,
- na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
- prapadyante narādhamāḥ
- māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
- āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
- (BG 7.15)
So you make one test, whether he has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. If he has not done, then he is in these four categories. What are they? Duṣkṛtina, great sinful; mūḍha, rascal; narādhama, lowest of the mankind. And if you say, "Oh, these are so big, big learned scholar," now māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. Why? Āsuraṁ bhāvam, asura. Asura's business is to deny Kṛṣṇa and to kill Kṛṣṇa. So all these people, they are reading Bhagavad-gītā, and they are trying to kill Kṛṣṇa. (devotees chanting) Is it not a fact? All these big big leaders, they'll speak on Bhagavad-gītā, and they will never say that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You surrender to Him."
Indian man: Prabhupāda? Jīva Gosvāmī was the guru of Mira?
Prabhupāda: No. I do not know who is the guru of Mirabhai. But Mirabhai, from the childhood, she was a devotee. But I do not hear anyone as her guru.
Indian man: No, but who was living in Vṛndāvana. Was Jīva Gosvāmī living in Vṛndāvana?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Six Gosvāmīs. Rūpa, Sanātana, Bhaṭṭa Raghunātha, Śrī Jīva, Gopāla Bhaṭṭa, Dāsa Raghunātha. Six Gosvāmīs, they were immediate disciples of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. They were entrusted to develop Vṛndāvana. And they did it. Modern Vṛndāvana means, this is the contribution of the Six Gosvāmīs. (break)
Indian man: ...a portion which says that when she went there and...
Prabhupāda: So that may be, whatever is there, but Rūpa Gosvāmī had no reason to refuse seeing a woman.
Indian man: No, but, that... Which Gosvāmī?
Prabhupāda: No, any Gosvāmī. Because the Gosvāmīs were so popular that amongst the villagers, when there was some disagreement between family members they used to come to him and say to him, "Bābā, (Hindi)." That means in that way he had to see many women many times. Why he should refuse? And what is the meaning of refusing if one, anybody... Even Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not refuse, but women used to offer their respect from little distance, not very near. That was Caitanya Mahāprabhu's restriction. But in our association there is no such thing as refusing anyone the opportunity. Kṛṣṇa does not say. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ striyaḥ śūdrās tathā vaiśyāḥ (BG 9.32). He does not make any... And so far my institute is concerned, we do not make such thing. Everyone should be given chance. But we have restriction that we should mix with women very cautiously. You should not have any illicit sex. These things are there.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Hm? What shall I advise? I have no experience about this. You do. But this scientific film should not be done independently.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His reason for coming to India this time was to give you that film and to now make a film about India. He proposes to travel to holy places and festivals to show people engaged in the nine processes of devotional service. "My first immediate trip," he says, "would be to Trichur, Kerala, to show the Puram Festival, where thousands of people join in a procession through the streets. A Deity of Kṛṣṇa is carried on an elephant. At some of these big festivals there may be many non-Vaiṣṇavas. Is it all right to show these people? Or should we only show Vaiṣṇavas in this movie?"
Prabhupāda: No, no. But what will be the benefit of our taking photograph of other procession? There are so many processions like that. So what will be benefit?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says his general idea is "to present and establish Kṛṣṇa as a factual personality and not just some mythical character." To do this, he wants "to show historical sites of His pastimes combined with paintings to illustrate Kṛṣṇa's birth, His Vṛndāvana, Mathurā and Dvārakā pastimes, speaking Bhagavad-gītā to Arjuna, and His teachings as given in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Then we would show His, Kṛṣṇa's, teachings, how Kṛṣṇa's teachings were passed down..."
Prabhupāda: This is good.
Indian man (2): Naturally Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And He says, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām: "I can adjust things." So we are not taking. (Hindi) From all angles of vision, if you study Bhagavad-gītā, everything is perfectly there. And if you take it seriously, you become happy in this life and dehāntare. If you simply take, accept Kṛṣṇa as He says, then what is result? Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). Punar janma, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), but one who has understood Kṛṣṇa perfectly—it is not possible to understand Him, but as far as possible, as far as our knowledge is concerned—if we understand Kṛṣṇa, then immediate result is that we are freed from the bondage of janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). So that is the real problem. We are solving problems, this problem, that problem, that... They are not problems. That is natural in this material world. Just like this fly is disturbing. This is not a problem because the fly is made for that purpose. How... You cannot stop him. You can protect yourself. It is not possible to stop him. This is not problem, how to drive away the fly. The real problem, Kṛṣṇa says, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam, that you are in the cycle of birth, death... Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You get another life and you suffer. Again you get another life. This is your problem. So that problem, Kṛṣṇa says, that "You can solve it. Simply try to understand Me." Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā deham (BG 4.9). That is our business. But we are being deviated from the real business, and we are being engaged in so-called this ism, that ism, that ism. This is spoiling the whole thing.
Prabhupāda: Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). From Brahmā we have come. And Brahmā is generated from Kṛṣṇa. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi. So let them come forward and discuss. So we have to prove to the world that it is not brainwashing. It is real knowledge. Why you should keep it suppressed and leave the people in ignorance? It is not your duty to bluff and cheat. That is not science. You are cheating people and getting Nobel Prize. That we have to..., in a large scale.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There will be immediate reaction from the team called "The Study of the Origin of Life from Chemicals." They have also an international society. They also publish a journal.
Prabhupāda: We have to defeat them.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So it will be just like a battle.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is a battle.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is also a Christian group...
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: In Christianity a Christian group, they also are trying to counteract modern science, but their approach is very superficial. They also think that somehow God created life, but the way their knowledge is based, it's very superficial, so the scientists don't take anything seriously. They also say that it's only about five thousand years ago that man was created, these groups.
Prabhupāda: Not thousand. Millions, the very beginning. God has brain; therefore we have got brain.
Prabhupāda: And whatever you manufacture, you can show back. Suppose this tape recorder. If it is working, it has value. What is the use of it? Who cares for you? If it is in working order, it has value. Otherwise, (taps microphone) who cares for it? But if you have got gold, silver, metal... There was a small banker's. You require... I am poor man. I require only two rupees, but I have no money. You take one utensil and go to a small banker. He will keep this pot. "Give me two rupees." The pot is only five rupees' worth, so he'll keep it. He'll give you two rupees. So your immediate necessity is... This way, Indian economics.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I've noticed that the people in the villages, when they come to fetch water, they have very nice pots. The ladies are wearing some bracelets. Gold, I think, it must be.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even the village.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You'll find description in Bhāgavata. They were coming to congratulate Kṛṣṇa—so nice dress, so nice ornament, so nice foodstuff made of ghee, grains in our...
Śatadhanya: Sometimes the rich Marwari ladies, when they come to Māyāpur, once in a while they give some ornament to the Deity. They'll give one ring or one bracelet, gold.
Prabhupāda: That was always. They would offer some ornament to the Deity.
Prabhupāda: Where is the difficulty?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I think that one of the difficulties arose from my seeing this map originally, because in this map it shows the continents that we today speak of as various continents. So when we all looked at this map, our immediate question was, as I said the other day, how do we go from one place to the next? It's not such an unreasonable question. So we're just trying to answer it from the Bhāgavatam—not to give our own speculations, because they're imperfect.
Prabhupāda: That is already answered. You are limited within certain area. So you can conclude in so many ways. Sara bhuri kara, kara bhuri sara.(?) There is a vegetable prepared, the following vegetables are taken: sara, bhuri, and kara. And again you say kara bhuri sara. This way or that way. Sara bhuri kara, kara bhuri sara. That three things, either you take this way consecutively or that way consecutively. But you have got only that kara bhuri sara. You have no experience. There is potato, there is (indistinct), there is (indistinct-Sanskrit). You know these three things. Sara bhuri kara. Kara bhuri sara. Just like they are making arrangement in the laboratory. Companies are there. They present in such a way, that he was flying in the sky, and big sputnik and very small town. Do you know that man came?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Man came and said he could do anything. Make any trick or illusion. (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: And they have done so in the matter of moon planet. They've never gone there by laboratory arrangement. Arizona?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Arizona.
Prabhupāda: So that fortune is... By fortune he gets a guru. And by the instruction of guru he gets Kṛṣṇa. So to create fortune we have to take this regulative principle, to become fortunate that someday he'll be able to meet somebody who is real guru and who will give him real guidance. "Man is the architect of his own fortune." Therefore pious activities and other things, yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-kriyā, these things are recommended, to acquire the qualities of brāhmaṇa. These things are required. If he remains like animal, that fortune will never come. This is the architecture. So that fortune begins when he enters the varṇāśrama-dharma, four varṇas and four āśramas. That is a easiest way. Fortune does not come that "This is very important. Man is the architect of his own fortune." He must accept some process to become fortunate. And if you want to become fortunate through the rich man, you should enter... (microphone moving) ...just like businessman... (microphone moving) And without doing something, how you can get fortune? That is now... There is no such program. The program is just a animal program: eating, sleeping, mating and defend. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so important, to give them the fortune, not immediately but our immediate future, by acting in this way, he'll be fortunate.
Prabhupāda: What is wrong?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In that building. It's all right?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not? In a building there are so many different types of men. In a big building, apartment building, you cannot expect all of them of the same class.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. 'Cause in Bombay you had said that is was better that in an immediate building of the temple they should not live together with wife. They should live separately.
Prabhupāda: No, that is, they are not doing business. They are attached to temple activities. Anyway, these things have to be adjusted. You cannot follow very rigid in case of gṛhasthas. Some way or other, you have to adjust. We cannot allow them to be lost.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. That's clear.
Prabhupāda: Better allow them to live together. What can be done? But we cannot lose them. After training so much, if they are lost, then that is a great loss. This I am giving hint. Now you GBC, you change them. Make process.
Prabhupāda: And nobody is going to disturb you there. Make your own field and continue to become ṛttvik and act on my charge. People are becoming sympathetic there. The place is very nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. He says, "The introduction of Bhagavad-gītā has been translated into Tamil, and I will have the second chapter done next. Then publish a small booklet for immediate distribution."
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "I have also found a young man to translate Singhalese language."
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "This coming weekend we have a two-day festival in Colombo. We expect about two thousand people per night."
Prabhupāda: Oh!
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "The Sunday feast here has become so popular that whereas before only fifty people would come, now at least three hundred came yesterday."
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Prabhupāda: Hm!
Hari-śauri: That's very good. Since you've been here in Vṛndāvana, I sent them a telegram that now they have to distribute more books so that Lord Kṛṣṇa will be pleased and allow you to stay with us. So they've doubled up since then. Now they're almost run out, they've distributed so many. (break) He said that up on the farm also things are going very nicely. Many, many people are coming now to see how we are living. And for Govardhana Pūjā they are planning a two-day festival. They're expecting to get many hundreds of people coming. Your farm is already very well known now up in that area, and people are becoming very interested to see what we have to offer. In the immediate district where our farm is, many people have tried to start communes—these hippies and people like this. But they've never been successful because they've never had any central point to agree on. Everybody's simply gone their..., lived their own way. But within a few months now, some of the more serious people have seen that within just three or four months we have achieved more on our farm than any of these communes have done in the last six years. So they're becoming very attracted to come and stay with us, and they appreciate the kīrtana and prasādam very much. (end)
Prabhupāda: Yes, we have got enough place.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Some people were thinking that Vṛndāvana is not a good place for building that hall, but...
Prabhupāda: No, there is no immediate necessity. We have got already nice building.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But we have no hall in that building. There's no... The place where they held the meeting last time is now going to become the restaurant.
Prabhupāda: Let it become.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So there won't be any place to have any future meetings. There's no big room.
Prabhupāda: That we shall have in..., conveniently, not immediately. Immediately there is Bombay.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. (Hindi) And the mayor, ex-mayor, has given telegram. Where is that telegram? This is a telegram... It says, "Pray God, Kṛṣṇa, to give you long life to spread Indian culture in every nook and corner of the universe. Signed Raji K. Ganatra, ex-mayor of Bombay." He's very convinced, Śrīla Prabhupāda, about Your Divine Grace and this movement, because he traveled around the world and stayed as a guest at our temples, and he was amazed to see how this Indian culture had actually been transplanted and taken root in all of these countries all over the world. He could not believe it. He was so amazed and impressed. He said that he's seen genuinely that this Indian culture has been taken up in true spirit.
Hari-prasāda: This is the first movement that has started (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hari-prasādaji said that...
Hari-prasāda: No Prabhupāda, this was the first mission which had started...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: What you are doing?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: With the press from the Indian Express and other newspapers. And also I went to the television and the All-India Radio for the engagement. And also I wanted to discuss with some of my members the immediate plan that we have. So I sent one to Bombay to organize a conference. So I'll try to cover this area very quickly, Agra, Delhi, and Punjab. I'm meeting a lot of scientists. And also I collected several copies of the newspaper, The Statesman. I went to the Statesman building, collected the newspaper coverings. How are you feeling, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: That kavirāja did not come?
Upendra: What happened? No one knows. They left. They say he left Calcutta at twelve o'clock flight.
Bhakti-caru: And another thing, Shastriji was explaining that in Ayurvedic medicine the reaction doesn't take place immediately. He was explaining in allopath, when someone is very weak, they give him glucose, intravenous glucose, and that gives immediate energy. But he says that that doesn't work. When the glucose is exhausted, then again he becomes even more weaker. But the kavirāja like that, the strength will come slowly, slowly, but whatever strength is acquired in the body, that stays there. It's permanent. It's not just temporary.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The swelling is reduced. Isn't it, Śrīla Prabhupāda? I mean, all of the signs, Śrīla Prabhupāda, which the kavirāja wanted, are there.
Bhakti-caru: As a matter of fact, he hasn't given any medicine to strengthen him up.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Did you hear what Bhakti-caru just said?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Bhakti-caru: Right now, Śrīla Prabhupāda, Shastriji didn't give you any medicine to strengthen you up as such. His medicines are simply to cure your kidney and liver. When they are cured, then he's going to give medicines like makara-dhvaja which will make you strong.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One thing, Śrīla Prabhupāda, this is one of the reasons I wanted the kavirāja to be with you was to be able to answer your doubts, because I felt that he could far better than we can. But factually speaking, it seems to me there's every... I mean if he were here now he would feel your pulse and he would be able to understand that your pulse is not weak. Your heart is good. You're starting to pass more urine, you're getting sufficient rest, you're able to take things like milk, which you couldn't take before, and these are positive signs. And the one thing that we're looking for, strength, he already said will not come immediately, and he's not even giving any medicine for increasing strength yet. The thing is, we're a little impatient because we've waited so many months and had so many failures with so many different doctors, but really, this doctor, so far, has the best record, his medicines. So we think that you should be encouraged. We feel hopeful. Even if you feel hopeless, we are hopeful.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali with Bhakti-caru)
Bhakti-caru: That's 40 grams, stool.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? I think you should take the medicine now. Can Bhakti-caru bring it to you?
Prabhupāda: The same medicine?
Bhakti-caru: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
| Page Title: | Immediate (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 13 of Feb, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=65, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 65 |