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Imitate (Conversations 1968 - 1975)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- February 1, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: We simply invite persons to come and chant with us. It doesn't matter what he is, what is his language, what is his religion. We don't take into account all these things. And this Hare Kṛṣṇa is so easy to utter, that any man can utter. That we have experienced. Any part of the world, we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and they can very easily imitate and chant. Even child, they also. So by chanting, he gradually becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious. His heart becomes cleansed and he can understand what is science of Kṛṣṇa, what is science of God. Then he automatically offers himself for initiation. Then we initiate him and guide him in different ways. But our students are strictly forbidden to have illicit sex life or meat-eating or intoxication or gambling. These four things are strictly forbidden for our students. And they take it seriously. We get our... In your country boys and girls, they live as friend. I don't allow that. If there is such friendship, I immediately ask them, if they become my student, I immediately ask them to be married.

Room Conversation -- July 16, 1968, Montreal:

Prabhupāda: Expert means whatever he is doing, he must do it very nicely That's all. Suppose you are sweeping this room. You can do it very nicely, to your best knowledge. That is expert. The people will say, "Oh, you have very nicely done." Any work you do, do it very nicely. That is expert. Don't do it haphazardly. To your best talent, to your best capacity, try to finish it very nicely, whatever it may be. You are entrusted with some work. Do it nicely. That is expert. If you think that you are unable to do that work, then whatever work you can do, you take. But do it nicely. That is expert. Don't imitate. "Oh, I have no capacity to work in that way, but I want to imitate. Oh, he is doing that. I shall do that." Don't do that. That is not expert. You take up what you can do very nicely and do it nicely. We have so many works. Kṛṣṇa is not that He is static. He is dynamic force. Just like Arjuna, he was not a Vedantist, he was not a brāhmaṇa, he was not a sannyāsī. He was householder. He was military man. But he knew his business, how to do it nicely. So you do your business nicely. That is expert. And when it is dovetailed in Kṛṣṇa, there is no gradation that this business is better and that business is lower because everything is for Kṛṣṇa. So that business becomes Kṛṣṇa. Do it nicely and Kṛṣṇa is satisfied.

Room Conversation -- July 16, 1968, Montreal:
Prabhupāda: So the instruction is that... 'Khila pārthiva vānaraḥ, vyāpare suvyaparam. Avyāpara means a occupation, an occupation which is not fit for you. That is avyāpara. Avyāpara-suvyaparam. And one occupation which is not exactly fitting you, you do not know how to do it, so avyāpare suvyaparam yo kartu... If one wants to act in a business in which he is unable to do, then he is killed just like this fool monkey. Avyāpare suvyaparam yo naraḥ kartum icchati, sa-mulo hanyate. That foolish person is killed just like this monkey. The monkey's business was not to imitate the sawman, but he wanted to imitate. The result was that he was killed. So that is not expertness. Expertness is you just try to do which is easily performed by you. You don't accept anything heavy task because Kṛṣṇa does not want that you have to do this heavy task. Whatever you know, you just apply it. You dovetail it in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa does not say that you have to become like this, like that, like that, then you can serve Him. Does not say. Just like this cow. Just see. What does it know? He's an animal. You see? But the calf knows to brush his head and tongue like this, in love. It is doing and Kṛṣṇa accepting, "Yes." That is expert. First of all find out what is easily done by you. Don't take anything which is not easily done by you. You find out what is your occupation, what you can very nicely and easily perform, and do it for Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Is that clear? Expert? This is expert. Expert does not mean that I do not know how to drive motor car, and I will have to imitate somebody, "Oh, I shall become driver." Why? If you do not know driving, why should you attempt driving? Whatever you know, you just try it, that business, and try to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. If you know driving, that's all right. But don't take... My Guru Mahārāja explained that you haven't got to learn anything extra for Kṛṣṇa's service. Whatever you know, you just apply it... Then you become successful. Because our time is very short. We do not know when I am going to die. As soon as I am out of this body, I am completely under the grip of nature, and I do not know what kind of body I am getting next. Of course, Kṛṣṇa assures that His devotee will never be vanquished. He will get good body.
Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Prabhupāda: In India, due to her long subjugation by the foreigners, practically the so-called educated persons, they have lost their original culture. Rather, those who are not so-called educated, following the traditional rules and regulations, they are more Kṛṣṇa conscious. And the educated circle, they are thinking that this religious temperament is the cause of India's economic fall-down. But actually, that is not the fact. So not only India, in other countries also they are trying to imitate the economic situation or economic development of other countries, especially of America, but they do not find that in America, although the boys and girls, the younger generation, they are born of rich family, rich nation, they are still confused, and they are also hankering after something better. So the policy followed by India now, that is, to imitate the Western way of life, is not very happy mood. This means they have lost their original culture. And so far Western countries are concerned, I think they have sufficient arrangement for material comforts. Now they can very easily take up this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement because they have no disturbance for material hankering. And I think it is the time for them to accept this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement to make them perfectly well.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1968, Montreal, With First Devotees Going to London On Evening of Their Departure:
Prabhupāda: So completely... And in the Bhāgavata, Śukadeva Gosvāmī recommends that "Oh, this open field is your bed, this is your pillow, this is your pot, and the water in river is sufficient water, the tree is full of fruits, and in the cave, there is sufficient apartment. So why should you go, anyone, to ask for your shelter, for your food?" Kasmād bhajanti kavayor dhana-durmadandhān: "Why should you approach the materialistic, puffed-up, monied men to give you some help?" So Śukadeva Gosvāmī was strictly following this, strictly following, completely independent. That is not possible at the present day. (chuckles) If we imitate, that will be not good. We have to depose(?). Our Gosvāmīs, they have prescribed yukta-vairāgya: accept everything in relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Then it is yukta-vairāgya. It is also vairāgya. Śuṣka-vairāgya and yukta-vairāgya. Śuṣka-vairāgya means simply renunciation without assimilation. Māyāvādī sect, Śaṅkara sect, they have got stringent laws for renunciation. But Vaiṣṇavas, they have no stringent law. They accept everything as Kṛṣṇa-prasādam, actually offering Kṛṣṇa, working for Kṛṣṇa, living for Kṛṣṇa. This is the best use. My Guru Mahārāja used to say, "The best use of a bad bargain." Everything in Kṛṣṇa relationship. That is yukta-vairāgya. Nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yukta-vairāgyam ucyate. Vairagya means detachment. So when we are attached to Kṛṣṇa, automatically we are detached to māyā. Not artificially we want to be detached from māyā. Just like theoretically I know that I am not this body, but the bodily necessities are there because I am encaged in the body. Therefore the bodily necessities-eating, sleeping, mating, defending-should be done in relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Then it is all right. Then my consciousness is always in Kṛṣṇa, and I am detached to my bodily demands. And those who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, their bodily demands is on the materialistic platform. They are going on, increasing the degree of fever and coming to the 107 degree. You are also going tomorrow?
Interview with LA Times Reporter About Moon Trip -- December 26, 1968, Los Angeles:

Reporter: Yes. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness, its Vedic literature, they have some of the same books or also holy books for what we call Hindu religions, aren't they?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just try to understand, the inhabitants of India were called by the Muhammadans from Persia and other places, "Hindus." "Hindus" means the resident on the other side of the River Indus. You have heard the name of River Indus. So they cannot pronounce it Indus, they say "Hindus." From "Hindus," it has become "Hindu." So actually the residents of India were called "Hindus." And generally, at least in, say, three thousand years ago, all the inhabitants of India were strictly followers of Vedic principles. After the advent of Lord Buddha, a different religious system developed. Otherwise, before Lord Buddha, there was all the... Not only in India, in other parts of the world. They were followers of Vedic principles. So in that sense, you can say if followers of Vedic principles are called Hindus, then before Lord Buddha, everyone was Hindu all over the world. Not that particular part of India. So far we have got historical reference from Mahābhārata, Indo-European stock, they are also Hindus, the so-called Hindus, followers of Vedic principles. Yes. Gradually, they deviated. Just like recently there is division of Pakistan and India. Twenty years before, this Pakistan was part of India. Now, these Muhammadans, they did not come from outside. They changed their faith from Hindus to Muhammadans. Now they divided their property. Similarly, actually the whole planet was called Bhārata-varṣa. Gradually, people deviated from Vedic principles or imitated something else and they became different.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 14, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: ...six or seven years old, my father was worshiping, so I wanted to imitate. I asked him that "Give me Deity." So he gave me.

Allen Ginsberg: Did you wash them and play with them?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Washed, changed dress.

Allen Ginsberg: Fed them.

Prabhupāda: Yes, everything.

Allen Ginsberg: Do you still? Do you still wash them and feed them and play with them?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now my disciples I have... (laughs) At home I was doing that.

Allen Ginsberg: What are you reading?

Prabhupāda: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. This is original Sanskrit. There are eight commentaries by big, big stalwart scholars.

Allen Ginsberg: These are the commentaries? And this is the text?

Prabhupāda: This is text.

Allen Ginsberg: What does the Sanskrit sound like? Is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam to be chanted?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like... I will read some portion. (chants a few verses, "tasmai tubhyāṁ bhagavate vāsudevāya vedasi" to "vāsudevāya śantāya yadunām pataye namaḥ") Like this.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 14, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: As the material shadow. How did we fall into that?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is very natural. Just like... (knock on door) Come on. Because jīva, although parā śaktī, he has got independence. So when he wants to imitate Kṛṣṇa... In the spiritual world Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer, and all others, they are enjoyed. Predominator and the predominating. The Lord is the predominating, so there is no disagreement. There they know, "The Lord is predominator. We have to serve." When this service attitude is impaired, that "Why serve Kṛṣṇa? Why not ourself?" that is māyā. Then he falls down in the material energy. There is no scope... Just like in the government system, there is no scope of freedom. You have to act according to government state laws. So long you are agreement, then you are free. If you disagree, then you are placed within the prison house. Similarly, jīva, independent, not fully independent, but they have got. Because part and part of God, therefore that independence quality is there. So when that independence quality is misused, then his place is in the material world. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāṅchā kare. When we forget Kṛṣṇa and try to lord it over something... And Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord. When we try to imitate His lordship, then our place is in the material world. We are given freedom, "All right, you lord it over here." So here every living entity is trying to lord it over, competition. I am trying individualwise, nationwise. Everyone is trying to lord it over. That is material existence. And when he comes to his senses, jñānavān, that "I am falsely trying to lord it over. Rather, I am becoming implicated with material energy," when he comes to that, then he surrenders. Then again his liberated life begins. That is the whole process of spiritual life. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya māṁ ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Don't manufacture ways and means, falsely trying to lord it over. That will... You'll not be happy because you cannot lord it over the material nature. It is impossible. If we try to violate the government laws, is it possible for me? No. If I am to live as a citizen, it is not possible for me. Then I'll implicate more and more. This is crude example. Similarly, we are part and parcel of the Supreme. Just like there is a story, Udarendriyānām. Hitopadeśa. You heard the name of Hitopadeśa?

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1970, Bombay:

Guest (9): No, believe Him as a you are a servant and serve Him. Or you believe that you are mother to Him.

Prabhupāda: No, that is second. First of all surrender. Then what way you shall surrender, that is different thing, another stage, more confidential. First of all there is surrender. First of all you enter this house or this room. Then you ask, "How can I serve you?" That is different. First of all there is no surrender, or without surrender, full surrender, there is no entrance in Kṛṣṇa. No entry. Because those who revolted against Kṛṣṇa, those who wanted to become Kṛṣṇa by imitating Him, they are here in this material world. Icchā-dveṣa-samutthena sarge yānti parantapa (BG 7.27). (Hindi) Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19), creation, that all the living entities who have come into this created world, they have revolted. They wanted to become Kṛṣṇa, to imitate Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they have given the chance, "All right, you become Kṛṣṇa. You do whatever you like. I will give you facilities. You want to become Brahmā? All right, you become Brahmā. And you want to become the worm of stool? I will give you the facility." So these living entities are rotating. Sometimes he is becoming Brahmā, sometimes becoming the worm of stool, sometimes this, sometimes that. In this way he is changing body. This is material world. Or when he comes back again, back to Godhead, yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). Then you'll haven't got to come back. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). So we have to prepare for that position, how to go back to home, how to go back to Kṛṣṇa and engage ourself in His service. Then the question of either as mother or friend or... That will be considered later on. First of all let us try how to enter kingdom of God. That is condition, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ (BG 18.66), that "You surrender unto Me fully, giving up all your other engagements. Then I take charge of you." Ahaṁ tvāṁ mokṣayiṣyāmi. Mokṣa is there. For a Kṛṣṇa-bhakta is nothing, mokṣa, or liberation. He'll do it. He'll look after it.

Guest (9): Thank you.

Prabhupāda: Ready? All right. (end)

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Śāstra-vākya-pramāṇa. And it should be known through the spiritual master. Just like nowadays Bhagavad-gītā is being interpreted in so many foolish ways because they do not accept explanation from the authority. They become themselves authorities. Therefore misused. That is not explanation. Somebody is explaining that Kurukṣetra means this body, pañca-pāṇḍava means the senses. These are all nonsense. You have to accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is. When you cannot understand, you should get it explained by your spiritual master. Therefore one has to accept a spiritual master to understand. Tad-vijnanārtham. In order to understand that transcendental science one must approach a bona fide spiritual master. That is injunction. So here it is said that kānyakubje dvijaḥ. Dvijaḥ means he was offered the sacred thread. That means he was born in a brāhmaṇa family. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ. Everyone is born a śūdra, a foolish. Sudra means a foolish man who simply laments. That is the real meaning of śūdra. Anyone who has no intelligence, he is śūdra. We also generally say, gadāh, less intelligent. So brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, they are called higher caste. According to their... Brāhmaṇa, first-class because his intelligence is first-class. Kṣatriya, his intelligence is second-class. Vaiśya, his intelligence is third-class. And śūdra means fourth-class. And less than śūdra, they are called pañcama, caṇḍāla. They are accepted as animals, those who are less than śūdras. This is the Vedic system. Now, here it is said that this Ajamila, dvija... Dvija means he was properly initiated, second birth. First birth by father, mother, is śūdra. Anyone, even if he is born in a brāhmaṇa family, the natural birth is considered as śūdra. But if there is garbhādhāna-saṁskāra, then he's accepted as born brāhmaṇa, born brāhmaṇa. Still, one is born brāhmaṇa, he has to undergo the saṁskāras. So our, this... Now it is known as Hindu society although the "Hindu" word is given by the Mohammedans. It is called sanātana-dharma or varṇāśrama society, who very strictly follow the four divisions, social divisions of varṇa—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra—and four divisions of spiritual life—brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. So our, the Vedic system is called varṇāśrama. Varṇa means the social order. Āśrama means spiritual division. Therefore those who are following strictly the Vedic principle, that family life is called gṛhastha āśrama. Āśrama. Whenever you add this word āśrama there is spiritual significance. So all the division-brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa—they are known as āśrama. Anyone can understand āśrama. As soon as there is āśrama that means "Here some men, saintly persons, spiritually advanced persons, lives." That is āśrama. So that āśrama, when a student follows the regulative principles, he is supposed to be situated in brahmacārī āśrama. A householder living with family, husband, wife, children, if they are following strictly the regulative principles—gṛhastha āśrama. Similarly, retired life, if he is following the regulative principles—the vānaprastha āśrama. Similarly, a renounced life, sannyāsa, if he is following the regulative principles, that is sannyāsa āśrama. Not that imitating somebody, I put on a saffron dress and I become a sannyāsī and by begging I live. This has killed the whole Hindu society or the sanātana-dharma society. Unqualified persons, they do not know the regulative principles but for solution of economic problem they dress themselves. This is Kali-yuga. They will pass on simply by the dress without any knowledge. So here also, although Ajamila was born of a brāhmaṇa father and he was strictly following the regulative principles of a brāhmaṇa—that will be stated—but he fell.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prof. Kotovsky: Yeah, because every..., there are some kind of people in some administrative departments who...

Prabhupāda: No, the difficulty is...

Prof. Kotovsky: ...are both masters(?) and ex-British officers.

Prabhupāda: ... the difficulty, that India is nowhere. They are trying to imitate, Westernize, but they are hundred years back. From materialistic point of view, technological point of view, they are hundred years back.

Prof. Kotovsky: Yes, that's right, but what to do for India?

Prabhupāda: No. That not...

Prof. Kotovsky: To improve the condition of life, to be Westernized is the major problem.

Prabhupāda: That... But there is one thing that I am experiencing. India's the spiritual asset, if that is distributed, that will increase India's (indistinct). That is my... Because everywhere I go, still people adore India's spiritual culture. They are after India. And if they are properly distributed, the treasurehouse of Indian spiritual knowledge, then at least people outside India, they'll think that "We are getting something from India."

Darsana -- June 28, 1971, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Sannyāsī should be always preaching. Parivrājakācārya. Four stages of sannyāsa: kuṭīcaka, bahūdaka, parivrājaka, and paramahaṁsa. In the beginning... Because according to Vedic civilization everyone has to take sannyāsa at a certain age. So as a matter of routine if he takes sannyāsa... Just like this old man I was asking that "Now you have children grown up, why don't you take sannyāsa?" But he is hesitating. Nobody likes, because sannyāsa life is difficult. So first there is kuṭīcaka means he gives up the connection of the family life, takes sannyāsa officially, but he is not accustomed to maintain himself independently; therefore, he goes out of the village and makes a cottage and lives there. And the foodstuff, the home supply, that is called kuṭīca. Kuṭī means cottage. Then when he is little practiced, then he says family members that "Don't bring foodstuffs. I shall go to every village man and ask something for my food. I shall depend on them, not on you." That is called bahūdaka. Bahū means many. Not accepting food from one place but from many. Then when he is prac... Because first problem is problem, when he is practiced, "Now Kṛṣṇa is giving us food, so why shall I remain in one place? Let me preach." That is called parivrājakācārya, when he is preaching. Parivrājaka. Parivrājaka means wandering all over. Then when he is experienced, when his preaching is done, he can sit down in one place. At that time, he can chant simply Hare Kṛṣṇa like Haridāsa Ṭhākura. And if he imitates from the very beginning, he will be spoiled, that's all. Because in the beginning, if I take Hare Kṛṣṇa, then it is (indistinct). (laughter) Don't do this. Always be busy. First stage, last stage. When one is paramahaṁsa just like Haridāsa Ṭhākura, three hundred thousand times, no eating unless he finishes his chanting. No eating, no sleeping. That is another thing. "I shall eat so much, I shall sleep so much, and I shall do nothing, simply chanting." No. That is not recommended by my Guru Mahārāja.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Sister Mary: Always going on.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no chance of escape. Chant constantly, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare. It remains in the heart. Not only my heart. Others' heart, they also joke, "Hare Kṛṣṇa!" If it can remain in others' heart, why not my heart? Those who are joking me, imitating me. We... Last time, when I was going in Africa, I stopped for few minutes in Athens. Some of the younger residents chant, "Hare Kṛṣṇa!" You see? As soon as they saw us, they began to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. They could understand, "These are Hare Kṛṣṇa people." Yes. So by their dress, by their tilaka, they oblige others to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, either for imitating or for joking. So they gain. But if Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting has got any effect, even by joking like that, he'll get gain. If it is actually spiritual, by simply joking he will get gain.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Revatīnandana: Yes. And limited and temporary. It's called capala sukha, flickering.

Prabhupāda: Now, even there was no God's picture, one who is God conscious, he can see in the natural scenery presentation, he can see, "Oh, how God is artistic. How he has manufactured this flower, how he has painted, how He has made this tree." So that is higher intelligence. That is higher intelligence. Because without God, there can be nothing existing. So one has to learn how to see God in everything. That is another thing. That is higher status. Yes. But in the lower status of God consciousness one is advised that you should not see anything without God. But in the higher status, there is nothing in the world which is without God. But we should not imitate the higher status of life in the lower status of our position. Otherwise, one who has learned about God, he can see God in this flower. Actually, how God's hand has worked out this nice flower. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā God says, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya (BG 7.8). Just like I am drinking water. In the taste of the water I'll see God. God says, Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the taste of the water." And actually, that taste cannot be created by man. The taste in the water, that is God's gift. So as soon as I taste the water, immediately I should remember, "Oh, here is God."

Room Conversation -- August 15, 1971, London:

Parivrājakācārya: Tiger? Boar. A wild boar.

Prabhupāda: A wild boar. So when the boar attacked him the Musselmans, when they do not like they say, "Haram. Haram." Condemn means haram. So when the boar attacked him he said haram. "Haram!" But it acted, ha rāma, and he got salvation. Do you follow what I say? A Mussulman said, 'ha ram. Ha ram He condemned. It is abominable. That is the meaning of Urdu, haram. But at the time of death, when the boar attacked him, he said, "Haram." So it acted ha rāma. Ha, he rāma. It acted, chanting the name of Rāma, Hare Rāma. He meant something else, but it acted as beneficial as chanting He rāma. So therefore this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, either you chant seriously, or those who are criticizing us, jokingly, the effect will be same. So anyway let them chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Do you follow? Even they do not take it seriously, if they imitate, joke, still they'll be benefited .

Conversation with Journalists -- August 18, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: So far I am personally experienced, in our childhood there were not so many problems. Now India is faced with so many problems on account of imitating Western civilization.

Guest: Not simply because of the increased population?

Prabhupāda: There is no question of increased population. This is, I say always, this is foolishness.

Guest: That's foolish?

Prabhupāda: Yes. When you say "increase of population," it is a proposal of foolish persons.

Guest: Oh, so someone, someone who's foolish...

Prabhupāda: No. Even the... Just like the birds and beast, they are also increasing their population. Yes. If you find one hole in the room, millions of ants will come out. So who is giving their food? There are millions of elephants in the forest. Who is giving their food? There are millions and trillions... There are 8,400,000 species of life. Out of that, eight million species are other than human being, and 400,000 species human being. Out of that, civilized persons are very few. And all the problems are in the civilized, so-called civilized population.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Gañjā, yes. Not sādhus, rogues. Sādhu's description is there—bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. Fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he is sādhu. Sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). He is sādhu. Api cet sudurācāro. Even one is found that his habits are not to the standard, but if he has unflinching faith in Kṛṣṇa and engaged in His service, then he is sādhu. These sādhus with long hairs and gañjā smoking, they have no idea what is the ultimate goal. And those who come from Western countries, naturally they find out these are the sādhus and they imitate. Hippies, they do like that, imitation. They do not know what is the philosophy, what is religion, what is sādhu.

Nara-Nārāyaṇa: The American hippies actually are following these sādhus. Certain persons, like Allen Ginsberg, have brought back impression that this is what the sādhus...

Prabhupāda: But they do not know that they are not sādhus, they are rogues.

Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Sādhu means devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is sādhu.

Devotee (3): We are also opening up homes for habituated japa-mālā users, who are also intoxicated, but in a spiritual way.

Prabhupāda: Huh? (break) That is required. (laughter)

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 1.5.11 -- January 19, 1972, Jaipur:
Prabhupāda: Na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśaḥ. You can present a literature very perfect from literary point of view, from metaphor and poetical, rhetorical, very perfectly written, citra-padam, attractive by language. Na yad vacaś citra-padam, such kind of literature, if there is no description of the glories of the Lord, na tad vacaś citra-padam. Just like there are so many sex literatures, very attractive, it is selling like anything. But we are not interested in those rascal literatures. Tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham, such literature is considered as the place of enjoyment of the crows. Vāyasam means crow. The crow take enjoyment in the garbage, you have seen? They won't go in a nice place. They will come all together. Just like vultures, they come together to take pleasure in a corpse, dead body. But a white swan, rāja-haṁsa, he goes to a place where there is nice water, lilies and lotus and nice trees. You have seen that St. James Park? They will find out such nice place. They won't go to imitate the crows. The crows-like people will take pleasure in such nonsense literature, sex literature, or any such literature. So many nonsense literatures nowadays they are having good sale. Because people are becoming crows-like, they have no high idea, they have no sense of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, naturally they will take. Just like hippies, they have become all bad taste, crows-like. So we have to become swans, rāja-haṁsa, paramahaṁsa, paramahaṁsa. Paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2). Then you can understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you remain crows, then you cannot, that is not possible. By nature's example we have to see if crows-like and swans-like, pigeons-like, birds of the same feather. Birds of the same feather flock together, is it not? So you have to change your feather, then he will be pleased. If you keep your feather crows-like, then you cannot mix with the swans, that is not possible. This is the test. There are classes of men like crows, and there are classes of men like swans. So we are preparing our devotee... (aside) What is that?
Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Anyone approaches Rādhārāṇī, She recommends to Kṛṣṇa, "Here is the best devotee. He's better than me." And Kṛṣṇa cannot refuse. That is best devotee. But it is not to be imitated, "I have become best devotee. Therefore I have stopped." That is... Actually, that is a different stage. So even the best devotee... Without (being) best devotee, he cannot preach actually, ācārya, but he comes to the second stage. Īśvare tad-adhīneṣu bāliśeṣu dviṣatsu ca. He has the vision of dviṣat, somebody envious of God. But it is not the vision of the best devotee. Best devotee sees, "Nobody is envious to God. Everyone is better than me." Just like Caitanya-caritāmṛta author, Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja. He says that "I am lowest than the worm in the stool."

Bob: Who was saying this?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa... The author of Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja. Purīṣera kīṭa haite muñi se laghiṣṭha (CC Adi 5.205). He's not making a show, he's feeling like that, that "I am the lowest. Everyone is best, I am the lowest. Everyone is engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, I am not engaged." Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "Oh, I have not a pinch of devotion to Kṛṣṇa. I cry to make a show. If I would have been a devotee of Kṛṣṇa I would have died long ago. I am living; that is the proof that I do not love Kṛṣṇa." That is the vision of the best devotee. He's so much absorbed in Kṛṣṇa's love that he sees, "Everything is going on; simply I am the lowest, therefore I cannot see God." That is best devotee.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Bob: So then a devotee must work for everybody's liberation?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. A devotee must work under the direction of a bona fide spiritual master. Not imitate the best devotee.

Bob: Excuse me?

Prabhupāda: Not imitate the best devotee.

Bob: Not, what is that word?

Prabhupāda: Imitate.

Devotees: Imitate, imitate.

Bob: Oh, ācchā, ācchā, I see. Imitate. (pause) (break)

Śyāmasundara: ...you said that sometimes you feel pain, some sickness, due to the sinful activities of your devotees. Is that... Couldn't sometimes disease be that, due to that? Caused by that?

Prabhupāda: You see, Kṛṣṇa says that ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). So Kṛṣṇa's so powerful that He can immediately take up all the sins of others and immediately make it gone. But when a living entity plays the part on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, he also takes the responsibility of these sinful activities of his devotee. So to become a guru is not an easy task. You see? He has to take all the poisons and absorb. So sometimes, because he's not Kṛṣṇa, so sometimes there is some trouble. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu forbidden that "Don't make many śiṣyas, many disciples." But for preaching work we have to accept many disciples, for expanding preaching. Never mind we suffer. But that's a fact. The spiritual master has to take the responsibility of all the sinful activities of his disciples. So to make many disciple is a risky job unless he's able to assimilate all the sins. (pause) (break)... patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo. He takes responsibility for all the fallen souls. That is... That idea is in Bible. Just like Jesus Christ take all the sinful reaction of all people and sacrificed his life. That is the responsibility of spiritual master. Because he's Kṛṣṇa's representative. So Kṛṣṇa takes all responsibility. Kṛṣṇa is Kṛṣṇa, apāpa-viddham. He cannot be attacked by any sinful reaction. But a living entity may be subjected sometimes, because he's small. Big fire, small fire. On a small fire if you put some big things, (chuckling) then the fire itself may be extinguished. In the big fire, whatever you put, that's all right. Finished. The big fire can consume anything.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is, I am talking about my Guru Mahārāja.

Bob: Oh, oh, I see. (break) ...question on prasādam, if I may. Let us say if some devotee has some trouble and does not eat a certain type of food. Like some devotees do not eat ghee because of liver trouble. So these devotees, should they take all the prasādam?

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. I say those who are not perfect devotee, they may discriminate. But a perfect devotee does not discriminate. So why should you imitate a perfect devotee? So long you have discrimination, you are not a perfect devotee. So artificially why should you imitate a perfect devotee and eat everything?

Bob: Oh-h.

Prabhupāda: The point is, a perfect devotee does not make any discrimination. Whatever is offered to Kṛṣṇa, it is nectar. That's all. Just like exactly Kṛṣṇa accepts anything from a devotee. "Whatever is offered to Me by My devotee," He accepts. The same thing for a devotee. (break) ...point?

Bob: Yes.

Prabhupāda: The perfect devotee does not make any discrimination. But if I am not a perfect devotee, I have got discrimination, why shall I imitate a perfect devotee? That will not be possible to assimilate or digest. Because I am not a perfect devotee. These things are... A devotee should not be a foolish man. It is said that kṛṣṇa yei bhaje se baḍa catura. So a devotee knows his position and he's intelligent enough to deal with others accordingly. (break) ...it is posted? The... Specifically, it is prescribed that one should perform yajña. Yajña means to act for satisfaction of Lord Viṣṇu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said... So shall I stop this fan? I think you can stop. You got? Otherwise much mosquitoes may disturb.

Room Conversation -- March 12, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So I simply...

Dr. Kapoor: They are beating Indians. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: I simply advise them that you regularly chant the sixteen rounds. Not more, you cannot make... You cannot imitate Haridāsa Ṭhākura. But there must be one saṅkhyā. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna. They are observing that and the regulative principles: no illicit sex, no intoxication, no meat-eating, no gambling. And they are following other instructions, so they are wonderfully.

Dr. Kapoor: You know Dalmiaji's daughter-in-law, the wife of Viṣṇu Hari Dalmia...

Prabhupāda: Viṣṇu Hari went to see me in London, perhaps with his wife.

Dr. Kapoor: Accha. She told me, she said the movement is all right but they are so strict, such strict rules and regulations are being imposed upon these people, how long will they be able to follow them?

Prabhupāda: That is a surprise.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1972, Sydney:

Śyāmasundara: Computer.

Prabhupāda: Computer. That is mechanical, the calculation. The calculating process is there; but by nice machine, it is shortened. That process is Kṛṣṇa's energy. He is so expert that it is just like computers—immediately comes. Not that the process is not there. Process is there.

Śyāmasundara: It seems like the more and more scientists try to investigate and imitate this process, they become more and more entangled in the complications. They can't understand it.

Prabhupāda: That process is crude. They are thinking that it is very fine, but it is still crude. Just like here, the... What I was speaking?

Śyāmasundara: The more scientists investigate the workings of nature, the more complicated it becomes. They can never understand it.

Prabhupāda: No.

Śyāmasundara: They think it's complicated, but still...

Prabhupāda: Not complicated, it is perfect.

Śyāmasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But they have no brain to understand.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Vicious civilization. Simply increasing, increasing, increasing. And the government taking tax; therefore, he has to prepare roads. So in your country, the more the motorcar increasing, the more flying over, more bridges...

Śyāmasundara: More problems.

Prabhupāda: More problems. Just like in Madras we saw, they are also imitating.

Śyāmasundara: Little tiny... (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Little ti... (chuckles)

Devotee (1): A little tiny flyover.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are advancing.

Śyāmasundara: Only two lanes.

Prabhupāda: And doing it for unlimited years. When they will be finished, there is no guarantee. Here in your country they do, they have contract, "Yes, within six months." But there is no guarantee. But that show is going on, that "We are doing something." Because it's imitation. There was no need, but they want to make advanced like the Americans.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1972, Mexico:

Devotee: Einstein.

Prabhupāda: Einstein. So still, if you can copy, even if you can copy, you are not the original scientist, because that brain of Einstein is already created. So original creation is God's. So you can imitate. So you are imitator scientist. Is it not?

Martin: It's true.

Prabhupāda: Who has created the brain of Professor Einstein? You have not created. You are trying to make a xerox copy, that's all. But the original is already there. Now who has created the original brain? Then you have to go to God. But you have not created. It is not my men(?). If man could create such brain, then, "Ah, never mind, the professor has died. We create another person like." That you cannot. So even if you are able to imitate, you are not the supreme scientist. First of all it is doubtful. So accepting that you will be able to copy or xerox copy of Einstein's brain, that does not give you the credit. The credit is already there, God's credit. At least we shall not give you any credit. We shall speak that the original brain is created by God. You cannot create. If you had the power to create, then there was no necessity of copying. You could create better brain. That you haven't got. You are trying to take xerox copy from that brain. Just like big, big aeroplanes are flying, but their, the shape is made after the bird. The original shape bird is created by God. He has got the same type of machine even within an insect, small insect flying. You can create a small aeroplane like that. That is not possible. Then what is your credit? Here is God's credit, a small fly, near water. You create it. You see? You can create a big, but you cannot a small. Therefore you are incapable. But God can create the biggest and the smallest. Aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān. He can create the greater than the greatest and the smaller than the smallest.

Room Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Ātreya Ṛṣi: The animals kill just their own quota.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore, if a man wants to become animal, he becomes worse than animal. A tiger, a tiger eats meat and he has got equipments in his body, what is called, nails, teeth, immediately pounce upon any animal and kills and eats. But a man cannot do that, but his teeth is different, he has no nails; therefore he has to kill animal in different way, by slaughterhouse. So he is worse than animal. You kill one animal for your eating purpose, that is one thing, but if you keep slaughterhouse for business, then you are more (indistinct). Therefore for a human being to try to become animal is worse than the animals, because... Just like you are now grown up. If you imitate that "I want to become child, so I enter anyone's house," the law will not allow you. And if you say that "My philosophy is to become a child; therefore I enter this man's house," the law will say, "All right, first of all you'll be punished." (laughter) You cannot say that. Because you are grown up you cannot act as a child. Similarly, because you are human being, if you act as an animal you'll be responsible for your acts. And you'll be punished if you do something wrong. You cannot say, "No, I have made my philosophy to become a child." That may be your personal philosophy, but law will not allow you. Ignorance is no excuse. (long pause) It has become a philosophy now to become like animals.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: But that's all right. He, he may eat anything. He's powerful. But he has ordered, "Thou shalt not kill." You must stop killing. He is powerful. He can eat the whole world. You cannot compare with Jesus Christ. You cannot imitate Jesus Christ. You shall have to abide by his order. That is your position. Then you are guided by Jesus Christ. That is actually obedience. You cannot imitate. That is explained in Bhāgavata, that those who are īśvara, those who are empowered, they will do anything, but we cannot imitate. We have to abide by his order. "What he says to me, that I will do." You cannot imitate. If you say that "Jesus Christ ate meat," admitting that, in what condition he ate meat, if you do not know, then Jesus Christ is contradicting his statement. He's eating himself meat, and he's advising others not to kill. Do you think Jesus Christ is contradicting?

Bob Cohen: No.

Prabhupāda: He cannot do that. That, that is real faith in Jesus, that he cannot do that. So "Why he has eaten meat, he knows, but he has asked me not to kill. I have to follow it." That is real Christianity. You are not Jesus Christ. You cannot imitate. He has sacrificed his life for God. Can you do that? So why you (indistinct) imitate Jesus Christ? You are imitating Jesus Christ for eating meat. Why not imitate Jesus Christ, sacrifice your life for spreading God consciousness? What do you think, Kīrtanānanda?

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes. When you preach, you can say all these things with so-called Christians. So what you are doing for God? Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). Just like sun. The sun is absorbing urine. Can you drink urine? If you want to imitate sun, "Oh, here is sun absorbing urine. Let me drink urine," can you? Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya. He is powerful. He can do everything. Therefore we cannot imitate Him. We have to simply abide by His order. That is real Christian. You cannot imitate powerful man. That is wrong. Just like in our Vedic literature there was a poison ocean. So what.... People became puzzled what to do with this—this demigod. Then Lord Śiva said, "All right. I'll drink it." So he drank the whole poison ocean and kept it in his throat, nīlakaṇṭha. Now, you drink poison? Not the ocean. You drink one cup. So how you can imitate Lord Śiva? Lord Śiva never advised that we drink poison. So you have to abide by the advice, not by imitating, "Oh, Lord Śiva..." Just like this LSD and marijuana, they say sometimes, "Lord Śiva used to smoke gāñjā." They say like that. But Lord Śiva drank the whole poison ocean. Can you do that? Lord Śiva's instruction should be taken. He says, "The best worship is to worship Viṣṇu," viṣṇu ārādhanaṁ param. When Śiva was asked by Pārvatī that "What method of worship is first-class?" Then he said, "The first-class worship is worshiping Lord Viṣṇu." Viṣṇu ārādhanaṁ param. Tasmāt parataraṁ devi tadīyānām ārādhanam. He said the Viṣṇu worship is the best. There are many demigods, but he recommended, "Viṣṇu worship is the best." And the better than Viṣṇu worship is to worship Vaiṣṇava. Tadīyānām ārādhanam. Tadīyā means His servant, or one who is, or what is in relationship with Him. Just like we are worshiping this plant, Tulasī. We are not worshiping all plants, but because this Tulasī has very intimate connection with Kṛṣṇa and Viṣṇu, therefore we are worshiping. Tadīyānām ārādhanam. Similarly, anything who is intimately related with Kṛṣṇa, worship of that thing is better than worship of Viṣṇu, Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: There is no Christian. Otherwise there is no difference between Christianity and our philosophy. They're Christian; we're Krishnian. And Christ comes from the word Kṛṣṭa. So if they actually follow the commandments given by Lord Jesus Christ, the world will change, immediately.

Devotee: Is that so...

Prabhupāda: Unnecessarily, false argument. Even Jesus Christ ate meat, you cannot imitate. You have to follow his instruction.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, our best, I have found that the best argument is, you practice. Proof.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So I shall go? No.

Devotee: A few minutes, I think, 'cause they are still packing.

Prabhupāda: All right.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: None of these religions have produced a sannyāsī.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: None of them. A person who is detatched from material life.

Jayādvaita: I was reading in the Bible...

Prabhupāda: Therefore I refused this Bhāgavata reader. He wants to come here, and no, we don't want these professional men. We want men who have sacrificed their life for God. We want such men, not professional. The so-called priests, they are professional. They are earning money. That's all. Just see, they, how the karmīs are earning money by their business, and it has become a business. Everywhere, religion has become a business.

Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: British Empire, when there was British Empire, when they were getting money from all over the world, somehow or other they constructed so many big, big buildings. Now they are encouraging not so big, and now it is difficult to maintain it. We can see practically that you have got so nice buildings in London, but it is not being properly maintained. You haven't got sufficient means now to maintain them. Therefore it was..., British Empire was for the time being that prosperity. Now to keep up your prestige you are concerned in so many ways. So anything you do in this material world, that is temporary. So many-Roman Empire, Moghul Empire, British Empire, Hitler Empire—they came and gone. But my real problem is that I am eternal, so what I am doing for my eternal life? That is it. Temporarily I may become very rich or poor, it doesn't matter. But people are being taught, "Oh, you are poor? You become rich." That's all. Just like our India trying to imitate the Western world. But they do not see that in the Western world, in America, in Europe, why these young boys, they are rejecting this materialistic way of life? These boys have come to me because they have rejected, they don't like. Just like you are coming. Why you are surrendering to me? Because you are not satisfied. So our Indians, they do not see that "These men, they have already everything. Why they are rejecting?" All facility. Because this will not give us real happiness. We are spirit soul. We cannot be happy simply by material opulence. That is not possible. This is Vedic civilization: how people will be happy. They can be happy simply by self-realization, spiritual realization, because he is spirit. Material advancement will never make us happy, that's a fact.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The influence of the...

Prabhupāda: Yes, propaganda. That is the cause of India's cultural falldown. These Britishers simply made propaganda that "Whatever you have got in India, this is all allegory, fiction. These śāstras are nothing. But now you are learning from us England's work in India, that is your real... You are becoming civilized now. Otherwise, you are in the utopia, and all these śāstras, throw it out." Because that was Lord Macauley's policy. Lord Macauley was sent to report how Indians can be governed nicely. So he reported that if you keep the Indians as Indians, you will never be able to govern them, because they are superior. You make propaganda that they are inferior and they will imitate you and then you can... That they did.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Therefore it is deviated. The Bhagavad-gītā, the Chapter, Fourth Chapter explains that you cannot understand Bhagavad-gītā by your own interpretation. You must follow the instruction of the original speaker of Bhagavad-gītā. The original speaker is Kṛṣṇa. So what Kṛṣṇa says, they have to follow it. Then it is Bhagavad-gītā. Otherwise if you interpret it in a different way then it is not Bhagavad-gītā. Now, what Kṛṣṇa says we have to understand it philosophically, ethically, scientifically, any way, any angle of vision. That is, that you can do. But you cannot change the version of Bhagavad-gītā. You cannot change. Just like Dr. Rādhākrishnan, in the Ninth Chapter when Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Dr. Rādhākrishnan says "It is not to the Kṛṣṇa person." But Kṛṣṇa person says, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, "You just always think of Me." And he's deviating his readers, "Not to Kṛṣṇa." How much harm he's doing. This is going on. Why? It is said, Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, "Just think of Me. Just become my devotee." What right he has got to say that here it is not to Kṛṣṇa? This is going on. So if we interpret in that nonsense way then we shall not be able to understand Bhagavad-gītā. We shall miss this point. Science does not mean that you have to change according to your whims. Two plus two equal to four. You cannot make it five or three. That is not possible. Then it is not science. No longer the scientific value of this two plus two remains. We follow that principle, and that is the only principle. So if you're actually serious about Bhagavad-gītā, I do not know what is your commentary. I request you, "Try to follow the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. Don't interpret in your own way. Then it will be (indistinct)." Everyone has got (indistinct) all over the world. Therefore we are selling this Bhagavad-gītā As It Is very nicely. Our publisher's MacMillan Co. and their trades managers report is that our Bhagavad-gītā is increasing daily, sales, other decreasing. That is the report, and in October they published 50,000 copies, it is already finished. Now they have to plan it for the second edition. People are very much now, eager to read Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. So, imitating us, somebody's, another (chuckles) man, he said "Bhagavad-gītā As It Was." (laughs with everyone) Like that. So that will not harm our cause.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: The exact word, in Bengali, there is a poet,

kṛṣṇa-bhuliyā-jīva bhoga vāñchā kare

pāśate māyāra tare jāpaṭiyā dhare

As soon as the living entity forgets his position as eternal servant of God, and he wants to imitate God to enjoy, at that time, māyā, illusion, or Satan captures him, captures him.

Cardinal Danielou: Yes. Is true. The man must imitate God, imitating His bounty, His...

Prabhupāda: Power.

Cardinal Danielou: Yes. His mind and His knowledge of the spiritual sense. But it is possible to man without the helping of God to realize his perfection?

Prabhupāda: No, no, no.

Cardinal Danielou: It is necessary that the grace of God help the...

Prabhupāda: Yes. By the help of God, he can revive. That is stated in Caitanya-caritāmṛta...

Cardinal Danielou: Because man is, himself, is not capable to attain...

Prabhupāda: No.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Yogeśvara: He says the ideal of Christianity is to imitate these various qualities of Lord Jesus Christ.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Cardinal Danielou: Yes. I think it is the character specific of Christianity, the importance of the person of Jesus. Jesus is the perfect model, you know, of the virtues, and it is apply the model on the savior because we think that Jesus is not purely man. He is a manifestation of God. God is gone amongst us to help the man to find Him. We know that the man research God, but his capacity of find, and is necessary that God come to help the man to find Him.

Bhagavān: We call that guru.

Cardinal Danielou: Yes. And Jesus, Jesus is this. So I am very, very glad to meet you...

Prabhupāda: May, may I ask you one question? Jesus says: "Thou shalt not kill." So why Christian people are killing?

Cardinal Danielou: (French)

Yogeśvara: (French)

Cardinal Danielou: It is forbidden in Christianity to kill. Surely. But chiefly we think that there is a difference between the life of man and the life the beasts. N'est ce pas? And that the life of man is sacred because man is the image of God. But we have not the same respect relating to the beasts, to the animals, and we think that the animals are at the service of man, and that it is legitime to man. For us, each life is not the same. What is really important is the life of man, and the human person is really sacred and it is forbidden to kill a human person...

Prabhupāda: No, but Jesus does not says "human being". He just said generally: "Thou shalt not kill."

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: ...there are many groups like that in America.

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Like imitating Beatle groups.

Devotee: Allen Ginsberg.

Prabhupāda: Allen Ginsberg. Allen Ginsberg has no more popularity.

Devotee: No, not much.

Prabhupāda: He's roaming like vagabond. He came, London, to see me. That... He came, also. What is that? Bob...?

Yogeśvara: Bob Dylan?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yogeśvara: You mean in London, in London.

Prabhupāda: No. He came to Los Angeles.

Śrutakīrti: He was at different temples in the United States, he was travelling by car.

Devotee: And He came to see Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No, he came to our temple in Los Angeles and paid three hundred dollars to the Deity.

Devotee: Oh, that's nice.

Prabhupāda: Some jewels.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1973, Paris:

Bhagavān: That makes everything complete.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Independence means that you can do or not do. That is independence.

Bhagavān: Their definition of perfect is wrong. Just like this boy's definition of a poet.

Prabhupāda: He's a rascal. He's simply bogus. He's trying to... There are so many parties like that. They're four or five, they make a group and imitate these Beatles. As if... Beatles have made money. They'll also make money. That is the... And speak all nonsense. That's all. These are crazy fellows. So independence means that you can do or not do. Just like you, as a nation, American nation, or English nation, you are all independent. But why you go to the jail? Is it government's fault that you go to the jail? Therefore government has fault? Why this nonsense question. When a man, instead of going to the university, goes to the police custody, is it government's fault? Is it?

Haṁsadūta: No.

Prabhupāda: Then? It is a common sense affair. The God has given you independence. If you do something wrong, against the will of God, then you must suffer. Therefore we find so many varieties of living entities. In different grades of life. That is due to misuse of independence.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then... (break) ...We have not very many followers because we disagree with all rascals. We are not rascal. (break) Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopāya na sāntāya (?). Mūrkha upadeśa... (Hindi) If you give some lessons to the rascal, he becomes angry. Payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. If you ask a serpent, "Sir, you don't bite anyone, you take your here, milk, (indistinct)," the result will be he'll increase his venomous poison, and one day—"Phansss." (Sound imitating biting) You know the story? The kuta..., (?) the wood-cutter and the snake. He found a snake... Snake, if it is not killed, then if you simply beat and becomes dead, again he revives life. You know that?

Guest (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: By air. So somebody killed, but he did not cut or burn. So he again, into life. So a wood-cutter, what is called? Who cuts trees and wood? He felt sympathetic. He took away the snake and kept at home and gave him some milk. So one day, when he was strong. (makes hissing sound) So he thought, "Oh, I gave you life, I gave you milk, and now you are trying to attack me?" He cut into pieces. Therefore in the śāstra it is said, modeta sādhur api vṛścika-sarpa-hatyā (SB 7.9.14). When Prahlāda Mahārāja's father was killed by Hiraṇya, I mean to say, Nṛsiṁha-deva, Prahlāda Mahārāja prayed, "Sir, You reduce Your anger now. Nobody is displeased with You because my father was just like a scorpion and snake, and when a scorpion and snake is killed, nobody's unhappy. So nobody is unhappy. Your action is not decried by anyone. Please now become in Your sense." So in the whole living entities, kingdom of living entities, the vṛścika, vṛścika and sarpa...

Guest (1): Scorpion.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Guest (2): Is he allowed to say so?

Prabhupāda: No, no. He is the Supreme, He can say. Just like a father cheats sometimes the son. The son has taken from the pocket of the father one hundred rupees' note. He's not separate. The father takes one lozenges, two paise worth. "Oh, my dear son, you can take it, very nice. You give me that." "Ah yes." It is not cheating? He's giving two paise worth lozenges, and taking hundred rupees' note. Is it not cheating? This is cheating. But father is cheating; therefore it is good. You cannot imitate father and cheat others. Father can do anything for the welfare of the son. That is another thing. Similarly, when Kṛṣṇa appears as a cheater, the atheist class of men and Lord Buddha say, "No, no, there is no God. Yes, it is all right. You are right. But you hear me." "Yes, sir, we shall hear you." But he's God. This is cheating.

Morning Walk -- December 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Dr. Wolfe: But in all humility, Śrīla Prabhupāda, supposing that they would succeed in actually creating the living cell artificially, what would we say?

Prabhupāda: What is the credit there? It is already there. So what credit he can get?

Karandhara: Best they just imitated what has already happened.

Prabhupāda: Imitated. Just like, that I explained also. The example is that when an imitation barking is there, people go and purchase ticket. And when real barking is there, nobody cares. This is their business. They are so fool that their government is purchasing the ticket, and they're hearing the imitation barking. That's all.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But once they are successful they are going to make super beings they are called super beings, superhuman beings, super animals.

Prabhupāda: But they cannot create even an ant, and now they are going to make super beings. This is another foolishness. They cannot create even an ant, moving ant, and they're going to make super being. Just see. And we have to believe them. (laughter) We are not so fools. Your so-called scientists may be fools, but we are not so fools.

Morning Walk -- December 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: You may do, but already... Just like there is a soap factory. You start another soap factory. So what is your credit? It is already there.

Yaśomatīnandana: The big, big soap factory.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is your credit? Yes. You can imitation, make an imitation. And you want to take credit, all credit, for the original creator, simply by imitating. You are so foolish. Why shall I give you the credit? I shall give credit to the origin. That is our philosophy.

Karandhara: When they discover a natural law, they name it after themselves, like "Newton's law." (laughter)

Prabhupāda: It is already there, already there, and the rascal wants to take credit.

Yaśomatīnandana: They adjust a little bit and they say that they have conquered...

Prabhupāda: No adjustment. That is another foolishness. You cannot adjust. Even you cannot adjust a moment of nature's law. You cannot adjust.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Yaśomatīnandana: Creating atom bombs.

Prabhupāda: Ah, therefore the whole world is in confusion. All rascals, they are busy. What is the use of such business? Like monkey. Monkey's very busy, always, but doing harm. That's all. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, ugra-karmāṇaḥ kṣayāya jagato 'hitāḥ. These rascals, they are busy just to destroy the whole world and do the mischief. That's all. Actually, they are doing so. That we also... In English language, sometimes it is said, "A sharp razor in the hands of a child." The child... That is this imitation. They want to imitate their father. So if he imitates the razor sharp, then he will create havoc. So these rascals, they have got now all power, and therefore creating havoc. They do not know how to use it. According to Vedic principle, the śūdras, they should not be given more money, the worker class. Now the worker class is given more money. So what they'll do? They'll produce drunkards. That's all. In America, it is evident. They do not know how to use money. So therefore we see, fifty-two percent drunkards in your country. Eh? What is the percentage?

Devotee: I'm not sure, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Karandhara: It's probably close to that.

Prabhupāda: Eh? At least fifty-percent. Eh?

Karandhara: Drunkards, debauchers.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Again "trying." It is already there. What is the use of your trying? The same thing. Already dog is barking, but one is trying to imitate. That's all. But people will go to see the imitation barking by purchasing ticket, and the real barking they'll neglect.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is called, "new discovery."

Prabhupāda: What is that new discovery? Barking is already there. What is new discovery? You are simply imitating barking, that's all. Barking is already there. What is discovery?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But that imitation is just new.

Prabhupāda: No. Imitation is flattery. That's all. Imitation is the best way of flattery. That's all.

Karandhara: Actually they are proving our point because as persons they can imitate the Supreme person, but He made the original. If they were not persons or living entities, they couldn't imitate God's creation.

Prabhupāda: Now, in your laboratory, by mixing hydrogen, oxygen, if you produce one ounce of water, what is your credit? Here is vast water already.

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Foolishness. Enviousness means one must be able. But they are not able. Simply foolishness.

Bali Mardana: They have created artificial gems, like...

Prabhupāda: Just like you are a powerful man. I am a powerful man. I become envious. That is allowed. But I'm not powerful, I'm trying to imitate you, it is foolishness.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they're saying that God didn't give me all the knowledge to do, how to make this water.

Prabhupāda: Because He wanted you to remain a fool. He wanted. Because you are atheist, He wanted that you shall remain ever fool. That is God's business. Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram aśubhān yoniṣu (BG 16.19). These atheistic class, they remain always fools. Kṛṣṇa gives him birth in such a family, in such a country, in such a posi..., that he remains fools. He remains always fool. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Yaśomatīnandana: Prabhupāda, it's like the barber giving opinion on the science of medicine. It's like barber giving opinion on the science of medicine. Because the materialistic person, they claim to be expert of material science, and still, they want to give opinion on the spiritual science.

Prabhupāda: No, no, they are not even expert of material science. They are expert in bluffing others things with jugglery of words. That's it.

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: There's plenty of space on the earth. Why do they have to go to the moon?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because it was not done before, so they want to show it to the people. They want to show the power of science.

Prabhupāda: Power of science means imitating the barking of the dog. That's all. Dog is already barking, but they imitate and they become scientists. That's all. This is their power. How to imitate. That's all.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they will say, "We are more advanced." So they can imitate.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all right. But we are not so fools that we shall waste our time for imitation. We have got already real thing. Why shall I go to the imitation.

Karandhara: Their imitations are cheap. Like a sputnik, how does it compare with a planet?

Prabhupāda: Not cheap! Their imitation... They are going to the... They're spending millions and millions. It is very dear, costly. First thing is imitation, and that imitation is very, very costly. Very expensive. So that is their foolishness. They'll be satisfied with the imitation which is very costly.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: Well, I was just using that as a comparison to...

Prabhupāda: No, why comparison? Then everyone is God. I want to see that you have got the opulence of God. You are the richest. You are smuggling, and you are richest? You rascal, you smuggle, and you are the richest? I kick on your face. (laughter) Now I challenge you. I shall kick on your face. You save yourself. You save if yourself.

Yaśomatīnandana: Yes. Pauṇḍraka tried to imitate Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa killed him.

Prabhupāda: They applied that pea,

Satsvarūpa: Pie in his face.

Prabhupāda: Pie. That rascal could not save himself. And he's God.

Karandhara: But I was not using the comparison in that sense. The sense I was using it in... to a scientist, if you tell him "You have to believe in Kṛṣṇa to realize He is God..."

Prabhupāda: No, no, it is not belief, it is fact. It is not... that we protest.

Karandhara: But the disciples of Guru Maharaji say the same thing.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: They haven't taken care of things here.

Prabhupāda: Just see how rascaldom is going on. What is the use of our going there? "Things are going on..." Suppose in another state, something is going on. So are you interested? Going... Let them go. What is the benefit out of it? You spend so much money, public. Simply to see. "There is a crack." Last conclusion: "There was a crack." Just see how they are spoiling hard-earned public money. Because there is no good leader, all these rascals are benefiting, taking their money, and enjoying, and giving bluff information to the public. This should be stopped. Immediately this should be stopped. What is their contribution? The same thing: a dog is already barking, and because they're imitating barking, they're being awarded Nobel Prize, "Oh, how you can bark nicely!" This is going on. There is life already. It is practical. Everyone sees that a man and woman combines and there is child, life, another life. And now, foolishly they want to prove that life comes from matter. And as soon as we offer that "You take this matter. Produce," "That we shall see later on." Just see. In this way, they're spoiling money. So because there is no good leader, these rascals are not stopped.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: "New frontier of knowledge."

Prabhupāda: Yes, because the new frontier of knowledge for the rascals not for the intelligent men. They're... The same example. If somebody imitates barking of the dog, if he says, "This is new frontier of knowledge," so a foolish man can believe that "How you have learned to bark like dog! Oh, great advancement." But an intelligent man says "What is the use of this barking, imitation barking? There is already dogs who are barking." Just like there is a... It is a fact, not story. One man, he went out of his village, and after ten years, he came back, advertised himself that "I have become successful in yoga practice." So naturally villagers surrounded him. "Oh, you have...? What yoga practice you have learned?" "I can walk on the water." "Oh?" Actually, even at the present moment, if somebody comes and says, "I can walk...," many people will come, thousands of men. So when everything, arrangement was that he'll cross the river, walking on the water, one old man came. He said, "Sir, it is very wonderful, but it is two paise worth. Two paise worth." "Why?" "Now, you will walk and go the other side; I'll take a boat, pay him two paise. I'll do the same thing. So what is your credit?" So those who are actually intelligent men, they will take like that, that "What actual profit you have made? You have spent millions and millions of dollars, and you say, 'Now, we have seen in the moon there is a crack.' " So this bluffing to the public must be stopped. They're squandering money, public money, and we Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we cannot do our activities for want of money. They have become so fools. How they are squandering money simply by bluffing another set of rascals that they are advancing in scientific knowledge. They are rascals, and they're cheating other rascals that they're advancing. And result is they're squandering public money. What do you think, Mr. Scientist?

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Topless, bottomless. That is going on. It is a regular policy that girls may remain unmarried, and the drunkards and the meat-eaters may take advantage of the prostitution. This is the policy. They have no sympathy. So many hundreds and thousands of innocent girls, they're like children. And they're exposed to prostitution. They have no shelter. Now these girls who are with us, they're feeling some shelter, you see? That we are giving some shelter. Everything should be reformed, political, social, and be, you American nation—you're favored nation, that I am always speaking; you should utilize the favor of God and be yourself perfect—and be leader of the whole world. Anyone who is not believer in God, he should be punished. Because he's animal. He is animal, and he is posing himself as human being. Cheater. Human life is meant for tapasya, for understanding God. That is human life. This dog's life, cat's life, this is not human life. If you become a very powerful tiger, is that human life? They're thinking like that. "If I become as strong as a tiger, then there we are perfect nation." Then what is the use of tiger? It is simply kill only. What other intelligence he has got? So in your country there are so many things to be done. I give you the idea, now you take the leaders. (break) Rascal. Sentimental. Be yourself leader. (break) ...you give up all this material advancement. But there must be Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise it is waste of time. Live very comfortably, gentlemanly. Kṛṣṇa never says that "You live like wretched urchins." Kṛṣṇa never says that. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya yogo bhavati duḥkha-hā. And this was practically introduced by my Guru Mahārāja, that living in palatial building and riding on first-class cars, one can become the best devotee. Not that one has to live underneath a tree, imitating Rūpa Gosvāmī. That is not possible in this age. That is the continuation of my Guru Mahārāja, that if one is sincere he can remain a first-class devotee even in this material opulence. And if he would not have introduced, then it was not possible to come here and preach this gospel. That because the principle was to live underneath a tree, go to Vṛndāvana, and have loincloth, just like the bābājīs are imitating. No. Even in full material opulence we can become a perfect devotee, provided you follow the principles. It doesn't matter. Gṛhe vā... It was sung by Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura long ago. Gṛhe vā banete ṭhāke. Either you live in the forest or in the city, opulent city, the business is gaurāṅga bole rākhe: always thinking of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Narottama māge tarsan.(?) Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, "I want their association, who is a devotee of Lord Gaurāṅga."

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1974, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just like, Śrīla Prabhupāda, a vulture. When the vulture wants to take off, he will run just like an aeroplane for a certain distance. They cannot just get up immediately. Vulture.

Prabhupāda: So you scientists, you are like vultures. (laughter) You have imitated vultures.

Umāpati: The symbol of the United States is an eagle, which is a bird of prey.

Prabhupāda: No, eagle... Our symbol is also Garuḍa, big eagle. Yes. Big eagle, Garuḍa. And you know Garuḍa is not vegetarian. You know that?

Prajāpati: Snakes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is not vegetarian. So if one becomes a sincere devotee like Garuḍa, you can allow him to become non-vegetarian. If he cannot give it up. (break)

Nara-nārāyaṇa: Garuḍa is from the jīva-tattva or he is an expansion?

Prabhupāda: No, he is jīva-tattva. Nitya-siddha.

Nara-nārāyaṇa: Does that mean that there is some soul who can come under influence of māyā in the spiritual sky and some soul who cannot?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that potency is there always.

Umāpati: Is that the difference between jīva-tattva and Viṣṇu-tattva.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore Viṣṇu-tattva is called acyuta, infallible.

Morning Walk -- February 20, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then, just like in your dispensary, you keep everything medicine. But it is to be given to different persons, different medicine. Not that because it is medicine you give to everyone.

Dr. Patel: No, what I mean to say is that this pān or gañjā, they might have used used by some for a good aim. But it has been misused by a majority of men.

Prabhupāda: So they are innocent people. They have imitated. Our, these so-called sādhu says that Lord Śiva used to smoke gañjā. That is their... So they have become Lord Śiva. Lord Śiva drunk the whole poison ocean and he kept it here. So you drink one drop of poison. But these rascals, they compare with Śiva, with Kṛṣṇa. "Kṛṣṇa danced with girls. Therefore we must have." These Māyāvādīs do that. I know.

Dr. Patel: You are... You have to... I've been... That is what I have, as one of the members of the Vaiṣṇava family, think, that you have to worship God not with the body consciousness, but with the soul consciousness. Then there is no question of Kṛṣṇa dancing with girls. It is a higher soul embracing the lower souls to him. Plain it has been...

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Morning Walk -- March 9, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So how Caitanya Mahāprabhu treated them equally or gave better position to Rāmānanda Rāya than Rūpa Gosvāmī? This question was raised—not only now—when our Guru Mahārāja started Gauḍīya Maṭha. So he was allowing the sannyāsīs to live in palatial building and go in car for preaching work. So many such persons questioned, "How is that, sannyāsīs are going in car, living in palatial building?" So our Guru Mahārāja replied that "A devotee should be offered the best comfort of life. And if he would not have introduced this comfortable life, at the same time, to become pure devotee, then these devotees from Western countries will, would never come. They would never agree to sit down under the tree and, imitating Rūpa Gosvāmī... That is not possible." Do you understand or not?

Guest (2): Yes.

Prabhupāda: What is your answer?

Guest (2): I answered that...

Prabhupāda: No, no. You answer me. I am talking with you.

Guest (2): Actually, I didn't know...

Prabhupāda: Now, in our building we have got the most comfortable situation. There is no such sanitary arrangement in any of the temples. But we are trying to give them. Because we deal, dealing in a different atmosphere.

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: ...Kṛṣṇa knows.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa knows. He has imitated Kṛṣṇa's plan. Kṛṣṇa has made so many birds. So you cannot make any other size. That is the version of the Vedānta. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The original idea is from Kṛṣṇa. You simply, you can imitate. That's all. Just like there are so many imitation birds. Similarly, everything is imitation. Everything is imitation.

Dr. Patel: Yes. In Śrīmad-Bhāgavata you get so many stories wherein all of devas and kinnaras, they come in their own planes and stand there with the planes. How could they stand with their planes down there?

Prabhupāda: That is much improved. This is not so much improved.

Dr. Patel: And in good old days when the planes were not in existence, the westerners thought that we were all fairy stories.

Prabhupāda: That we are also thinking, "There is no Kṛṣṇa. There is no background." We are also thinking. (chuckles) Although we are big, big leaders, we are simply imitators of the westerners. That's all. Western people are our father and mother. That is our modern Indian... Now, western people are drinking wine. Now the government is drinking. Gandhi stopped it, but "No, the western people do." Unless they drink wine, they cannot be very... They work...

Dr. Patel: Here they are all now alco...

Prabhupāda: So western people, western civilization has become the father and mother of India.

Dr. Patel: They idolize.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mr. Sar: Śabdaḥ khe.

Prabhupāda: And... Yes. Śabdaḥ khe. In the sky. So in the sky there is śabdaḥ. As the aeroplane goes, there is śabdaḥ, (makes imitative sound) guraguraguragura... He can remember Kṛṣṇa. Is it very difficult? You see. Bhakti-yoga, how nice it is! When the aeroplane is passing, there is guragura śabdaḥ, you find Kṛṣṇa. When you are tasting water, you find Kṛṣṇa. When there is sunlight, you find Kṛṣṇa. When there is moonlight, you find... When you're chanting Vedas, you find Kṛṣṇa. So how you can be without Kṛṣṇa consciousness? It is simply foolishness that it cannot be done. No. The how it can be done, that Kṛṣṇa personally is teaching. Learn it. And do it.

Mr. Sar: Puṇyo gandhaḥ pṛthivyāṁ ca...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mr. Sar: Tejaś cāsmi vibhāvasau.

Prabhupāda: There are two kinds of smell, bad smell and good smell. So when you smell a nice flower, puṇya-gandhaḥ, you remember Kṛṣṇa. "Here is Kṛṣṇa. Here is Kṛṣṇa." Puṇyo-gandhaḥ pṛthivyāṁ ca.

Mr. Sar: Tejaś cāsmi vibhāvasau.

Prabhupāda: When we, when you find vibhūtimat sattvaṁ, a very powerful man, a powerful elephant, you should, you know that "There is Kṛṣṇa. This power is Kṛṣṇa."

Dr. Patel: This is standard nyāya.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 4, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: When He had this rāsa dance, he was only seven years.

Prabhupāda: No, apart from that, actually, He had sixteen thousand wives when He was in Dvaraka, but these rascals say, "Rural boy." "Rural boy" means when He was in Vṛndāvana. So he does not know even the history, and he is trying to write about Kṛṣṇa. This is going on. And that is the proof. Kṛṣṇa had sixteen thousand wives. That is the proof that He is God, because you cannot maintain even one wife at the present moment. So He maintained sixteen thousand wives. That is the proof that He is God. That is the proof. But they will not take that side. They will take in other way, "Oh, this is all stories and fictitious." That's all. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto (BG 9.11). They do not know. They do not know what is Kṛṣṇa, and they try to write upon Kṛṣṇa, to imitate Kṛṣṇa. "Kṛṣṇa was an avatāra. Therefore I am also avatāra." These things are not very good.

Girirāja: (reads synonyms) "Translation: Whatever you wish to see can be seen all at once in this body. This universal form can show you all that you now desire, as well as whatever you may desire in the future. Everything is here completely."

Prabhupāda: That is avatāra. So nobody can compare. In the Vedic literature it is said, na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate na tat-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate. Nobody can be equal to Him. Sama, sama means equal. Na tat-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate: "Nobody is greater than Him, nobody is equal to Him." That is Kṛṣṇa. So as soon as one claims that "I am also Kṛṣṇa," he is a bogus immediately.

Dr. Patel: Shall I go further?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1974, Bombay:

Satsvarūpa: They want to be cheated?

Prabhupāda: No, they don't want to be cheated, but... Of course, they are cheated. What is the psychology of accepting imitation false god? I am asking you. You, doctor sir.

Dr. Patel: I have no answer.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is going on. Why you should imitate?

Dr. Patel: He has got the answer.

Prabhupāda: Yes, answer.

Yaśomatīnandana: Because they are less intelligent.

Dr. Patel: He is more intelligent.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he has accepted Kṛṣṇa. Therefore he is more intelligent than these rascals. Yes. He has accepted the original. He is not going to accept any false imitation. Therefore he is intelligent, more intelligent.

Dr. Patel: Shall I go ahead?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Girirāja: "After observing such wonderful happenings, Nanda Mahārāja began to think of the words of Vasudeva again and again." (break)

Prabhupāda: He was a great charmer. Yes. Simple, simple life, village life. They were all... Vasudeva said all these things. Vasudeva is kṣatriya. From the political eyesight, he predicted that "This may happen," but he, as a vaiśya, simple agriculturist, he thought that "Oh, Vasudeva is so, foreseer." (break)

Girirāja: Simplicity is not considered a bad quality?

Prabhupāda: No, no. For him it is all right. And anyone, sva-dharma... He is a vaiśya, He should believe like that. A politician should act like that, that... para-dharmabhāvaḥ. One should not imitate. Just like a physician is operating. I should not imitate, to take the knife and operate. That is not my business.

Girirāja: "After this incident, when Yaśodā was once nursing..."

Prabhupāda: But one thing is that Vasudeva was also thinking of Kṛṣṇa and he is also thinking of Kṛṣṇa. As a simple agriculturist, he is also thinking of Kṛṣṇa. And Vasudeva also, when he was asking him, "Go and take care of your children there," that was thinking of Kṛṣṇa. If the thinking of Kṛṣṇa is there, then either kṣatriya or vaiśya or brāhmaṇa, it doesn't matter. Everyone gets the same benefit.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Just like sometimes our men, my devotee, they wash the cupboard. Does it mean he is a methar(?)? No. He can go to the Deity room also. He is not a methar(?) or sweeper. But sometimes we do that. So devotee is above all these consideration. But because there is management, they should appear as brāhmaṇa, as śūdra, as kṣatriya, like that.

sa guṇān samatītyaitān
brahma-bhūyāya kalpate
māṁ ca vyabhicariṇi
bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate
(BG 14.26)

A devotee, because he is working as a śūdra, he is not a śūdra; neither he is a brāhmaṇa. He is already in the spiritual platform. But for management we have to do that. One can do the śūdra's work nicely—let him be engaged in that way. Why he should imitate?

Mahāṁsa: Does he get second initiation?

Prabhupāda: Everything he will get.

Mahāṁsa: He gets.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Second initiation means recognized: "Now he has become fully competent Vaiṣṇava." Just like master is teaching the servant, "Now you give massage in this way, this way." But that does not mean he has become servant.

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: You want to support your sinful activities by proving Christ as hypocrite. This is your business. You are such a Christian. And your love for Christ is such. (break) ...that we have to follow the instruction of the superior. Even if he acts something against the instruction, you should not follow it. You have to follow his words. You cannot imitate his action. That is real obedience. You should... If he has done something against his instruction, you should know that might have been some particular occasion he has done it, but we are not concerned with that. We are concerned with his order. That is obedience. He has not ordered me to do this thing. So my duty is what he has ordered to me. That is my only duty. What he has done in particular occasion, that is not my duty to see. Just like there is a Bengali verse,

yadyapi nityānanda sūri bari jaya
tathāpi sei amara nityānanda rāya

That sūri bari means wine shop where wine is distilled and sold. That is called sūri bari. And those who are wine sellers, they are called sūri. So I see that Nityānanda is going to a wine shop. So if I say, "Oh, Nityānanda is now spoiled. He is going to wine shop." No. We should not see that. We should know Nityānanda is pure. If he is going to sūri bari, wine shop, he has some business. But because he is going to the sūri bari he is not polluted. I shall not follow him, "Because Nityānanda has gone sūri bari, therefore I shall go." Kṛṣṇa danced with young girls, other's wives always. That does not mean I shall imitate that. What Kṛṣṇa has said, we have to follow that. That's all. Kṛṣṇa never said that "You also dance like me in rāsa dance." Has He said anywhere? Then how can you do that? Whatever He does, He has got purpose. His work is all right. But I cannot imitate His work. The example is given that the sunshine is soaking urine. Can you imitate that, you drink urine? So tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). If Christ has done something, he is Lord Jesus Christ, he might have done it for some purpose, but we cannot follow that. We have to follow what he has ordered. That's all.

Morning Walk -- April 23, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Well, people are now shameless, you see? They are being kicked in so many ways. We are giving the prescription, "Here is the remedy," but they are not taking to it. But they will take it. Some of them will take it, provided you remain also ideal. If you become also degraded, then who will take it? Ideal character, ideal behavior, ideal preaching. People will appreciate. (break) ...pure character or position, people will take, in any condition. There may be revolution or no revolution. They will take it. (break) ...that our movement is actually good. They will take in any condition. That standard we must maintain. Somebody... Yes, Balavanta, when he was speaking against smoking, one candidate—he was important man—he was smoking. Immediately he wanted to hide. (laughter) So immediate effect was there. He understood that "Yes, this is bad habit." So people will take it, any condition, provided you are ideal. Āpani ācari prabhu jīveri śikṣāya. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement. He teaches others by behaving Himself. "Example is better than precept." If you cannot rise early in the morning, then how can you ask others to rise early in the morning? What is the effect? There is no effect. We have got business early in the morning, to attend maṅgala ārati. And if you sleep yourself and teach others, so who will take it? (break) ...we have introduced. Very, very simple thing. But still, if he cannot... (break) ...(indistinct) Mahārāja. He is, he admitted him, smārta paṇḍita, but he cannot rise early in the morning. Never. And he is imitating the smārta paṇḍitas. You know that? Smārta, and one pot, and this and that and āsana (laughing). And "I had some..., consult with some smārta paṇḍita," and the real business, to rise early in the morning, he will never do. He will never do. Brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa means he must rise early in the morning. What kind of brāhmaṇa? Oh, he is coming. (laughs) Early in the morning at half past seven. If he walks early in the morning, all his disease will be cured. That he will not do. After all, everyone can do after performing maṅgala ārati, take a morning walk. Bathing. (break) How did you know we were here?

Morning Walk -- April 24, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That is the disease.

Akṣayānanda: Yes.

Mahāṁśa: They just speak very big words so that the language looks very nice, but people don't understand a word what they are saying.

Prabhupāda: (Prabhupāda talks meaningless words, imitating the rascals; devotees laugh) They go on speaking like this. And people, "Oh, how amazing!" Simply give some grammatical form and talk all nonsense, people will appreciate. Jugglery. This is called jugglery. The Māyāvādī paṇḍitas also do that. All the Māyāvādīs are against me, because I am talking about Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and they screw their own meaning by jugglery of words. So they are all enemies. The Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, smārta-paṇḍitas, all of them. (break) ...has constructed a śiva-liṅga temple.

Mahāṁśa: Śiva-liṅga.

Prabhupāda: Śiva-liṅga. You have seen Śiva-liṅga?

Mahāṁśa: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 24, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: They have... This, the followers of the Bala-yogi they're simply rascals.

Devotee: They'll just be more exposed... They'll have to study your books (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: They cannot even speak... Ah?

Devotee: They'll have to study your books to find out what to say.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like our, what is this? Sai, Sai, Siddha-svarūpa. He also tried to imitate ourself, and by reading, reading, he became my disciple. Although he has the same mentality, still, still he does not find any better solution than our philosophy. The Karandhara, he went away (chuckles) and does not find any solution. You see?

Satsvarūpa: "I find no alternative to Kṛṣṇa's service," he said.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the final. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). That is final. (break)

Mahāṁśa: ...start all over the world?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Devotee: We should...

Prabhupāda: If we'll be successful in America, then all over, everywhere it will be followed. (break) (Hindi)

Mahāṁśa: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 29, 1974, Hyderabad:

Gargamuni: So we should start manufacturing.

Prabhupāda: You first of all eat mercury then. (laughter) You'll be finished. (break) ...no scarcity. Why should we go to imitate the rascals? We have got enough gold. Kṛṣṇa is supplying gold whenever we require. (break) ...artha-prayojanam. Whatever you need, Kṛṣṇa will supply, if you actually remain dependent on Kṛṣṇa. There are so many literatures of different groups, but who is selling so much? Forty thousand, fifty thousand daily? Unless Kṛṣṇa is helping us. In the history no religion book have sold thirty thousand, forty thousand daily. There is no history. So why don't you see this wonderful thing? All the money that I have brought from USA, India, it is all book fund. Nobody has given. George has given. That is not in cash. And he gave that two lakhs. That was spent for Kṛṣṇa Book. So wherefrom the cash is coming?

Gargamuni: Sales of books.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Because we have got substantial sale of books, we are free to get money. And it is unbelievable that religious books are sold thirty thousand, forty thousand, fifty thousand daily. There is no history.

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Hlādinī...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). So Rādhārāṇī is the hlādinī-śakti. So when the Para-brahman wants to enjoy, He does not enjoy in this, the material energy. He expands His own pleasure potency. That is Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa tattva. Tad-dvayaṁ caikyam āptam caitanyākhyaṁ prakaṭum adhunā. "They have again become united in the form of Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu." Rādhā kṛṣṇa nāhe anya. Śrī kṛṣṇa caitanya, rādhā kṛṣṇa nāhe anya. Rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī-śaktir asmād ekātmānāv api deha... (CC Adi 1.5). Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...in every respect. We imitate, "I am the lord of everything." That is also imitation.

Dr. Patel: Yes, that is also imitation. We are imitating gopīs, not Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) Ah, his representative, will put on him. (break)

Prabhupāda: Girirāja, who is the Girirāja?

Girirāja: Govardhana.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1974, Bombay:

Yaduvara: "My dear Lord, You are the supreme father, supreme spiritual master and supreme king." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...accepted by Indra is all described in the Bhagavad-gītā. (break) ...composed after Mahābhārata.

Yaduvara: "Due to my gross ignorance, I created great disturbance in Vṛndāvana by sending torrents of rain and heavy hailstorms." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...first of all, being observed by father of Kṛṣṇa. It is very important. (break) ...necessity of tapasya, if one worships Kṛṣṇa? Nārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim. And after austerities, if he does not know Kṛṣṇa, then what is the value of his tapasya? (break) ...imitating here, that is lust.

Dr. Patel: Anything with a view on the sex is lust.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is lust. Here everything is lust. Center is lust. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). The central point is sex.

Dr. Patel: What this...? (end)

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1974, Rome:

Dhanañjaya: But they are saying they used all the wood for paper, so there's no more wood.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Paper you can make from grass, from cotton. So many other fibers. You don't require wood. You grow grass, sufficient quantity, and you make paper. Why should you publish so many rubbish literatures? Just like you were telling. The Times of India, the newspaper. (Sound of cars) This is the difficulty, walking on street. Therefore I wanted to go to the park. This is disturbance. So paper, if we don't produce unnecessary paper, there is no scarcity. From grass. You produce grass, huge quantity of grass, you will get paper. Cotton also. First-class paper. In India also, the rejected paper. From rejected paper you can get another paper also. But they throw it away in your country. Collect this rejected paper and again put it into paper. And why should you publish all rubbish literature? Simply publish Bhāgavata and Bhagavad-gītā, that's all. What is the use of this newspaper, nonsense newspaper, huge, huge quantity? So everything will be nice provided you become ideal. Live in community. Produce your own food. Even you can produce your own paper. You don't require printing of so many books. If there is one book, others can imitate, or copy. There is no need of printing. Formerly they used to do that. Here is the...

Bhagavān: Do you want to go in the park? (a lot of noise from cars)

Prabhupāda: Now?

Bhagavān: I didn't understand that about one book.

Prabhupāda: One book... Suppose we have prepared some small quantity of paper. So you can, if you want that book, you just copy another book.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Yogeśvara: One problem that seems to be occurring more and more frequently is the appearance of terrorists, that is to say, men who are motivated for some political, mostly political reasons.

Prabhupāda: Yes the whole basic principle I have already explained. Because they are animals, so sometimes ferocious animal. That's all. Animal, there are different types of animals. Tigers and lions, they are ferocious animal. But you live in the animal society. So animal society, some, another animal comes as very ferocious, that is not very astonishing. After all, you are living in animal society. So you become human being, ideal. This is the only solution. We have already declared, this is animal society. If some ferocious animal comes out, so where is the astonishment? After all, it is animal society. Either a tiger comes or elephant comes, they are all animals. That's all. But you don't become animal. Counteract. That is required. Then after... A human being is called rational animal. If you come to the rationality, that is required. If you remain also another animal, another type of animal, that will not help you. You have to become actually human being. But durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam. You have to... These people they have no aim of life. What is the aim of human..., they do not know. So their animal propensities are being adjusted this way, that way, this way, that way. Just like they go to see naked dance. The animal propensity—he is seeing his wife daily naked, and still he is going to see naked dance, and paying some fees. Because they have no engagement except this animalism. Is it not? So what is the use of going to see another woman naked? You are seeing every day, every night, your wife naked. Why you are... Because they have no other engagement. The animals. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). That a dog, it does not know what is the taste. He is simply chewing the, one bone, this way, that way, this way, that way. Because he is animal. He has no other engagement. So this whole society is animal. Especially the westerners. And they have developed a civilization on that animal propensities, means "I am this body, and the best use of my life is to gratify senses." This is animal. "I am this body." Body means the senses. "And to satisfy the senses is the highest perfection." This is their civilization. So you have to introduce real human civilization. You should not be surprised, an animal, in different shapes, in different capacity, comes out. After all, he is an animal. The basic principle is animalism. Because he is thinking, "I am this body..." As the dog is thinking, "I am dog, very stout and strong dog," so another man is thinking, "I am big nation." But what is the basic principle? A dog is also thinking on the basis of his body, and this big nation is also thinking on the basis of body. So there is no difference between this dog and this big nation. The only difference is that human being, by nature's gift, he got better senses. So... And he has no power, or there is no education to utilize the better senses, how to advance spiritually and get out of this material world. That he has no sense. He is simply using that better intelligence for animalism. This is the meaning. He has no education how to utilize the better intelligence. Therefore he is utilizing only in animalism. And people all over the world, when they see the westerners, "They are advanced." What is that? Advancing in animalism. Basic principle remains the animalism. They become surprised. They also imitate. So they are expanding animalism, animal civilization. Now we have to counteract for the benefit of the human civilization.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: What is that? What is the supposed...

C. Hennis: It's just a cleaner way of killing.

Yogeśvara: It is the natural order, that all animals... There are many species of animals that eat flesh, and that man is simply following the natural order.

Prabhupāda: Natural means, that means he should become animal. Like, he should imitate like the animal. That is man's progress, do you mean to say?

C. Hennis: Well, that's no doubt the rationale that they use.

Prabhupāda: I understand your point. That we also say, that any living entity has to live by eating another living entity. That is natural. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. It is said in the Vedic literature that one living entity is the food for another living entity.

C. Hennis: That's true.

Prabhupāda: Just hear me. But when you come to the form of human being, you should have discrimination. If you have no discrimination, simply you live like animal, then where is the difference? My only point is the lack of brain. Human being, he has been given by nature... They are also life, the fruits, the vegetables, the food grains, the milk, the sugar, they have got enough food value, and the human being should be satisfied within this group. Why they should maintain slaughterhouse, and do not think that they are not sinful, and still they want to be happy without caring for God? That is lack of brain.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: (laughter) But he could not defend that he has got brain, yes. So however these men may declare very, very big, we know that "You have no brain. You are as good as animal." Therefore Bhāgavata says, śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ: (SB 2.3.19) "These classes of men are no better than the dogs, hogs, camels and asses." Bhāgavata school will not approve of these rascals as human being. They are so strict. If one is not on the platform of God consciousness, he is not human being. He is animal. That's a fact. But we should not hate the animals because our mission is to bring them to the human consciousness. You cannot expect that your audience should be all highly brain. No. Preaching is required because they have no brain. Therefore your duty is to tolerate all difficulties and bring them to the sense of brain. Not that "These people are animals; we shall not mix with them." Then you have no missionary activities. Then you sit down in a place and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then don't open centers. That is also dangerous. If we imitate Haridāsa Ṭhākura, "Let us all chant and do nothing," then the māyā, the women, they are very expert. They could not conquer over Haridāsa Ṭhākura, but she'll conquer upon you. And become victim. Therefore we have to be active. We cannot imitate Haridāsa. Anyone who has imitated the Haridāsa Ṭhākura, he has fallen down. He has fallen. He must fall down because imitating the highest personality, for which he is not fit. Therefore he's going to fall down. When by preaching, by chanting, we will be expert, then it is possible. So whether Bhagavān is coming or not?

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1974, Geneva:

Bhagavān: They think it's so horrible to eat another person, but...

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they are suffering. Therefore you'll find, in the recent history, every twenty-five years there is a big war, slaughter, mass slaughtering of the people. How nature will tolerate? Now India has learned, imitated the western countries. Now there is war between India and Pakistan. Otherwise there was no such thing. During two wars between the Pakistan and Hindustan, unnecessarily, without any profit, millions of people were killed.

Karandhara: Just recently India exploded an atomic bomb, and now Pakistan is hurrying to get an atomic bomb also.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is going on.

Guru-gaurāṅga: The government promised it would be only for peaceful purposes.

Prabhupāda: No, what do they know about peaceful conditions. They are all rascals. They do not know what is peaceful condition. Actually peaceful condition is described in the Bhagavad-gītā,

bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ
sarva-loka-maheśvaram
suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ
jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati
(BG 5.29)

This is peace. Unless there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, where is the peacefulness? There cannot be. All rascaldom. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). These rascals and fools, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ, lost of all knowledge—how there can be peace? It is all useless.

Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Ahiṁsā, because at that time people were killing animals in the name of yajña. Just like in the Christian world the order is not to kill, but still, they are killing. So this misuse of scriptural injunction is always going on. A class of men there are who abuse the scriptural injunctions and go on with their own motive. So there was a period when people, under the protection of Vedas... Because Vedas, animal sacrifice is recommended for certain purpose, to test the proper chanting of Vedic mantras. The animal was not killed. The animal was put into the fire. Then again it would come out with new life. That is the proper chanting of the Vedic mantras. So for that purpose, animal sacrifice... Just like in biological laboratories, they experiment on the body of animals, frogs, guinea pigs. Similarly, a similar experiment was made, how the Vedic mantra is being properly chanted. The test was that animal should be put into the fire, and if the Vedic mantras were properly being chanted, then that animal would come with a new body. So an old cow or bull was put and he would come with fresh body. That was the purpose. Now later on, they began to eat meat by so-called animal sacrifice. In that period Lord Buddha appeared. About him it is, description is there, sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. The Lord became compassionate on the animals, as they were being killed unnecessarily. So Buddha, Lord Buddha, his only mission was to stop the sinful activities of animal... Ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ. He was teaching that. But these rascals, they would show the evidence... Just like Christians says that "Lord Jesus Christ ate fish" or something like that. Because Lord Jesus Christ ate fish, therefore they should maintain slaughterhouse. This is their reasoning. The other day somebody questioned me that... I said that killing of animals is sinful activity. So somebody questioned that "Lord Jesus Christ ate fish," somewhere. So I said that He is powerful. He can eat the whole world. But you cannot imitate. You have to follow his instructions, what he says. He said, 'Thou shall not kill.' So you should follow his instruction, not the action." He is powerful. He can act some way or other, according to circumstances. That is his business. Actually, that is the Vedic statement, that just like the sun, the sun can absorb the urine. People pass urine on the street, and the sunshine absorbs the urine, evaporates, but sun is still pure. Rather, the place where the urine was passed, it becomes disinfected. Similarly, those who are powerful, īśvara, godly, you cannot imitate their actions. They are apparently doing something wrong; still, they are pure. The same example. The sun is absorbing or evaporating the urine, but sun is still pure. But if I imitate and lick up the urine, that is not very good business. Similarly, we cannot imitate the powerful, we have to simply follow the instruction of the powerful. That is... But people, on slight imitation... Is that very good reason? Suppose Christ sometimes ate fish, but that is sufficient reason to maintain big, big slaughterhouse? Because Christ said... And he teached in the desert. Suppose there was no food and he had to eat some fish. So that is his business. He could do it. He is powerful. But does it mean on that strength throughout the whole world the Christians will maintain big, big, up-to-date machinery for slaughterhouse? So it is sinful. So Buddha wanted to stop this nonsense, who were eating and killing animals on the strength of Vedas.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Among the animals. But you are not animal.

M. Roche-dieu: They do not eat anything else.

Prabhupāda: But you are not animal. Animals among... The tiger, he is destined to eat meat. But you are not animal. You are human being. Why should you eat? Why you should imitate an animal? Then why there is religion?

Frenchman: (French)

Yogeśvara: (translates) There's a story. Someone asked Lord Jesus to describe how we should love all people. Describe... Just like a man who has one hundred sheep and there is one of them who has gone astray, he is lost, so the man leaves aside all of his other hundred sheep to go looking for that one sheep. So in the same way, he says, we must take care of the people who are suffering. The minority, those who are suffering, they must receive food, they must be given help and fed.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But why you should kill animal?

Young Swiss Man (3): At the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā...

Prabhupāda: And Christ says, "Thou shall not kill." Why you are killing? From the very beginning disobedience. How you can become Christian?

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: He admitted it himself. He said himself, "It's a false pride to think..."

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Yogeśvara: "...think we can do something."

Prabhupāda: You cannot do anything. But they show. They make a collection, that "We are doing such nice work." The Vivekananda also imitated like that and could not do anything. It is not possible. Swami Nikhilananda said... He belongs to the Vivekananda group. Because they raise funds from America, huge funds, that "We shall feeding the poor in India." And they eat meat and big, big become fat, these rascals. So the Americans asked them that "You are taking away our money somewhere to feed the poor. But when we go to India, two sides we see all poor men are lying on the street. What you have done?" So this is a slogan. They cannot do anything. Thinking of poor... Now, those who have accepted voluntarily povertyism, the hippies, what you are doing for them? Why don't you make arrangement for their gentlemanly living? They are not poverty-stricken. Why they are living like wretches, lying on the street, no program for eating, no for sleeping, no for bodily comfort, just like animals? What you have done for them?

Yogeśvara: Because the real problem is not poverty. That they haven't understood.

Prabhupāda: This is karma. If you have bad karma, then you must suffer by the laws of nature. You may be a rich man's son or king's son.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Certainly. These rascals, the priest, they do not guide them. They are also fallen. Otherwise, Christian religion is very nice. If they follow. So many times they asked me. "Yes, if you follow your Christian religion, you'll be perfect." Caitanya Mahāprabhu proved devotional service from Koran. Yes.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: The Khān Vaiṣṇavas.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So it requires the devotee who can explain from any godly literature about God. How rascal they are! "Jesus Christ ate fish. Therefore we shall maintain big, big slaughterhouse." Just see the argument. Then, in the Bengali, mosa makta kanan (?). There was a mosquito, and one is asking, "Bring a cannon." "Bring a cannon." Mosa makta kanan. Jesus Christ ate somewhere. There was no food available to eat, might have. Accepting he ate, but that, does it mean that you have to maintain slaughterhouse? Just see. And besides that, he might have done anything. He's powerful. He can eat. Therefore the other day I said, "He can eat the whole world." But you cannot imitate. You have to follow his instruction. That is Christianity.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Many of the young people now, they look to the Bible for instruction, but they don't like to go to church at all. They feel that the church is hypocritical.

Prabhupāda: Hypocritical, simply hypocritical. All these priests and cardinals and popes, they're all hypocritical. Getting high, highly salaried, high salaries, and drinking wine. And in America there is a hospital, five thousand drunkard priests are admitted there to cure their drinking habit. That was published in a paper. And they're sanctioning man to man marriage. That was published in that, what is that? Watch?

Satsvarūpa: Watchtower?

Prabhupāda: Watchtower. Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Then he's neutral always. He's not affected by all these qualities.

Yogeśvara: I guess the blood becomes purified like that. (break)

Prabhupāda: I said that "You scientists, you are simply wasting time." Did I not say that, last night?

Yogeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Childish. Just imitating barking of the dog. That's all. And he wants to take credit by imitating barking the dog. And the real dog is barking—no attention. Actually, that is the position.

Guru-gaurāṅga: They say that if a dog bites a man, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that's nothing special, but if a man bites a dog, that's news.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) Yes. Just like the men ate some human flesh. That became news.

Yogeśvara: That airplane crash.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is their business. (break) ...is when the dog barks, that is not science. When the man barks like a dog, that is science. Is that not? The man, how scientifically he has learned how to bark like a dog. This is their aim, how to imitate dog-barking. This is scientific.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: You've been creating devotees.

Prabhupāda: Oh, I, I am natural dog, and they'll not give me prize. (laughs) They'll give prize to the artificial dog.

Yogeśvara: Bad imitation.

Satsvarūpa: (about statues?) There is that Pan god again, imitating Kṛṣṇa with a flute and standing like that.

Prabhupāda: And what is this?

Yogeśvara: He's naked, though.

Satsvarūpa: That's some goddess of music with a harp. (pause) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...brain, they have created something, but it will be used for sinful activities: drinking wine, meat-eating and sex. Not for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Duṣkṛtina. They use their brain, but for sinful activities. This is duṣkṛtina.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: There's the verse in the Second Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā that what is night for the materialistic man is the time of awakening for the introspective sage.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guru-gaurāṅga: Their nice standard of living will be lost.

Prabhupāda: No, why? The standard of living should be one: plain living and God consciousness. That is the disease. Everyone wants to enjoy this material world to his best capacity. Therefore we divide. They don't want to live in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Material consciousness. Enjoyment of the senses. And that is the cause of their suffering. Only on account of this sense gratification, they're creating different mentality, and, after death, they're getting different body. That they do not know. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. One is trying to associate with the goodness, brāhmaṇa, brāhmaṇa qualification, he'll be promoted, and one who is trying to imitate, "I shall be as powerful as the tiger," he'll be degraded. It is nature's law.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, one person asked the other day that "You say that we have a choice, that either we can surrender to Kṛṣṇa, or we can remain under the control of the external energy."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: And his question was that those in the mode of passion and ignorance, do they have any choice?

Prabhupāda: Everyone has choice. Everyone has choice. Choice, but under the control. Exactly like that. By your choice, you go to the prison house. By your choice, you go to the university. There is supreme control, government. But it is your choice, whether you want to live in the prison or in the university. that is your choice. Government does not say that "Oh, this man will come to the university, and this man will go to the prison house." No. You make your choice, you work according to that, and government sends you either to the prison or to the university. You cannot say... One man is condemned to be killed for murdering, another man is rewarded some prize, you cannot say government is partial. You have made your choice, and government is giving you the result. (pause) Once you make your choice to steal, then you are under prison house. Immediately.

Room Conversation with M. Lallier, noted French Poet -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: The, the... When he forgets that he cannot enjoy, the only enjoyer is God, Kṛṣṇa, when he forgets this principle he wants to enjoy.

M. Lallier: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is called illusion, māyā. Actually, he cannot enjoy, but, forgetting Kṛṣṇa, the real enjoyer, he wants to enjoy. That is his... Just like a child imitates the mother for cooking. The other day, in Geneva, the fire ceremony was going on. The mother was offering oblations, and the child also immediately took some and he... You have seen that?

Yogeśvara: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: So he's not fit for that business, but he imitates. That is childish. Sometimes goes to the kitchen, wants to make foodstuff, preparation, and he is given some toys that "You just play with it." So every living entity is part and parcel of God. So God is enjoyer, God is controller. So he wants to imitate God. That is called māyā. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: So what should the soul do if he cannot imitate God?

Prabhupāda: Yes, the soul... Just like the same example. The child should be guided by the father and mother. Similarly, we should be guided by God, Kṛṣṇa. That is our normal life. And the guidance is given personally by Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad-gītā. So if you follow the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, and be guided by God, then you are happy exactly like a child is happy when he's under the protection of the parents.

Room Conversation with M. Lallier, noted French Poet -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Bhagavān: Why does the soul?

Prabhupāda: He does not forget, but he... Just like the same example. You call it forgetfulness or imitation. Just like the child was offering. He was not required to offer oblation, but he was imitating the mother. That is natural. According to Vedic instruction, we are all living entities. God is also a living entity. But He is chief. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13), (break) ...that He is the topmost living entity, leader of the all other living entities. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. The supreme one is maintaining all other living entities. So we are maintained. And He is maintainer. So sometimes... (to translator:) Yes, explain. There is... Sometimes it happens the father maintains the children, but the same child sometimes gives up the protection of the father. "Why shall I live under the guidance of...? I shall become independent." There are many instances in your western countries. He's happy being under the protection of the parents, but he rebels. He goes away. So that he can do. But if the father is very big, very rich, and the son leaves home and goes away to live independently, he suffers so much inconveniences and that is his choice.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1975, Atlanta:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Imitating a barking dog.

Prabhupāda: That's it. So millions of dogs are barking, and one man has learned how to bark like dog, and people will go to see him by purchasing ticket. This is their foolishness. Suppose if you somehow or other become able to produce life from chemical, then what is your credit? It is like barking dog. Millions of dog are barking. Now you have learned how to bark like dog. So what is your credit? It may be for the rascal fools that you are scientist, but we are not so rascal.

Rūpānuga: They will clap. The fools will clap.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. "How nice barking. Oh, how he has learned to bark." Just see. We are not so fools. Kṛṣṇa yei bhaje sei baḍo catura: "The first-class intelligent man is he who is Kṛṣṇa conscious." Sei baḍo catura. All rascals. Kṛṣṇa said, na māṁ duṣkṛtinaḥ mūḍhāḥ. "Oh? Also very scientist?" māyayāpahṛta-jñānā: "They have no knowledge, all rascals." Kṛṣṇa says. māyayāpahṛta-jñānā, that he is not thinking, that "Suppose I can produce life by chemical combination, then what is my credit? The life is already there. It is going on very nicely." What do you think, Balavanta? If the things are going on nicely, then where is my credit? Either you say, "by chance," or "by God's arrangement," "by nature," but things are going on nicely. So it is same thing, to learn how to bark, that's all. Barking is going on, but he wants to take credit by learning how to bark. That's all.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1975, Atlanta:

Mādhava: They try to imitate God.

Prabhupāda: That's all. That he cannot, and that is his foolishness. Therefore we say that you are cheating. Things are already there, going on. What is your credit?

Rūpānuga: The scientists are trying to be the hero. Kṛṣṇa is the hero. He has done everything first, and the scientist wants to be the hero.

Prabhupāda: So you have to present like this, that "What is the credit? Suppose by chemical composition you can manufacture one ant. That is not possible. Be assured you will never be able. That we are assured. But even if you are able, then what is your credit? The credit is the man has learned how to bark like a dog. That's all, this much credit."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, if they are able to make life, then they are going to say that there's no God.

Prabhupāda: Yes, but first of all you produce. Then say. Why you are anticipating that you will be able to...?

Rūpānuga: Still, who is the bigger God? If I make one ant, and there's already many, many ants made by a bigger God than me...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, so He is God. Whoever has made the most, He should be God.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: That is craftsmanship. That is not knowledge.

Rūpānuga: But still, they are thinking because they can do, make the background a little...

Prabhupāda: Just like if you paint a picture, rose, you are a painter, not that you know the knowledge. A painter is not a man of knowledge. Man of knowledge means he knows how things are being done. That is man of knowledge. Painter imitates some painting, that's all. He may be a good painter, but a painter is never taken as man of knowledge. I think, therefore, two departments, art and science. So this knowledge, this technical knowledge... Suppose one man has created an aeroplane. That is an art; that is not knowledge.

Rūpānuga: So if they create some synthetic, that is an art.

Prabhupāda: That is an art.

Rūpānuga: Simply copying what is there.

Prabhupāda: Just like a good cook is a good chemist. He knows how to mix up the maśālās and ghee and makes very tasteful thing. So you can call him a good cook. The chemistry is nothing but mixture of different chemicals. That's all. There is oil. There is alkaline. You mix it very proportionately, and soap comes out, very useful.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Yes, there is yogic principle. They can enter into a young body and act as young man.

Sadāpūta: So a scientist then could claim he created life. He could... The way they talk, if he made a cell...

Prabhupāda: First of all let them, these foolish rascals, let them understand what is the point who is missing. Then they will replace. They have no knowledge what is missing. They are so fool.

Dr. Wolf: Śrīla Prabhupāda, they would not create. They would only imitate.

Prabhupāda: That is not... It is never created. That is their missing point, that life is never created and they are trying to create.

Mādhava: Their theory may be right about how the body forms, but they're missing the soul?

Prabhupāda: Body forms... As soon as there is life, body will form by nature's arrangement.

Mādhava: May their theory be right? Like they say they come from amino acids and so many things. But...

Prabhupāda: That may be or may not be. Who cares for them? It is being already done.

Rūpānuga: They're simply describing it.

Prabhupāda: That is also... Because they have no knowledge, how they can describe?

Morning Walk -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We give that example that the difference between life and matter... We say that the difference is that the material living bodies... We live in a material body, but the material bodies, when a living entity stays inside a body, is fully automated, fully equipped.

Prabhupāda: Life is enjoying or trying to enjoy the matter. Matter is prakṛti, and the living entity is puruṣa. The chief puruṣa is Kṛṣṇa, and we are trying to imitate Kṛṣṇa to enjoy. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Living entity is superior prakṛti. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ paraḥ. It is a prakṛti, but they are trying to become puruṣa. This is struggle for existence. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...trying to live within the water. They are not trying?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. They have several plans to procure food from under the water, under the ocean. So they have all of these different schemes already started. Because the shortage of food on the surface of the earth... They say it's going to be very imminent in the coming future. So they have already started plans to make some food...

Prabhupāda: Another nonsense. (laughter) They are not producing food, they are producing motor tires, and still they will say "shortage." Just see. Now, in this city of Atlanta or any big, big city, who is producing food? Everyone is eating; nobody is producing.

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Tripurāri: They are just imitating the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tripurāri: No other group distributes literatures, though.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tripurāri: No other group, no other societies of philosophy distributes literatures. Guru Maharaj-ji, they published one magazine for some time, and his devotees, they went out and distributed short time. But they had no taste for continuing the distribution. So they have stopped now.

Prabhupāda: Artificial.

Tripurāri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So he is still making propaganda? No.

Balavanta: Who, Guru Maharaj-ji? Not so much. You don't hear about them. There's not much activity.

Devotee (5): Decreasing. We are increasing, and they are decreasing.

Tripurāri: Sometimes the Christians are distributing papers still at the airports. We invite them to come and take prasāda with us every day.

Prabhupāda: They come?

Tripurāri: They are reluctant. Some, one or two, come.

Devotee (2): Every once in awhile someone we meet when we're distributing books comes and joins us for prasādam, one time a businessman and one time a soldier. Various people sometimes join us. We take a 12 o'clock, 12:30 lunch break. Sometimes we'll be joined by one of these people we distribute books to.

Prabhupāda: When you were with Maharishi? Come here.

Morning Walk -- March 4, 1975, Dallas:
Prabhupāda: Human life is for tapasya. Why tapasya? Yena sattvaṁ śuddhyed: their existence will be purified. Then you will get unlimited pleasure. Yato brahma-saukhyam anantam. We are seeking after unlimited pleasure. So that is not possible in this material life. And we are thinking, "By working very hard, like hogs and dogs, we will get happiness." This is... The dogs and hogs, they work day and night for searching out where is stool, and as soon as he gets stool, he becomes very strong and stout. Then sex. Never mind, the mother, sister, daughter. This is hog life. Therefore this particular animal has been... Kaṣṭan kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). Viḍ-bhujāṁ means this hog, stool-eater. So this human life is not meant for imitating the stool-eater hogs. This is in the Bhāgavata. But they have imitated this, "We shall work. Work like hard work, hoglike, and there is no discrimination of food. All sorts of nonsense we shall eat, and in this way we shall get strong and have sex life. Never mind whether he is mother, sister, or daughter. It doesn't matter." This is the modern civilization. And that is warned in the Bhāgavata, "No, this is not life." But this has become actually the life, modern civilized life. Therefore it is called avidya, not education, contra-education. (break) ...says, make life very comfortable. Just produce little food grains, and there are fruits. Even if you don't produce food grain, you can live on fruits and milk. No. The milk source? Cut down their throat, cows, and eat the meat. There is no need of food grain or fruit. This is civilization. And thus becoming duṣkṛtina, all the brain is being utilized for sinful life. Duṣkṛtina means intelligence applied for sinful life. Kṛti, kṛti means meritorious. But their merit has been applied for acting sinfully. Therefore they are called duṣkṛtina. (break) "...by the orders of Christ we shall commit all kinds of sin, and Christ has taken contract. He will take our sin." That's all. Is it not?
Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is not meant for the Hindus, but Kṛṣṇa appeared in Hindustan. Therefore it is the duty of all Hindus to know Kṛṣṇa first. And they also conscious. Every Hindu knows Kṛṣṇa. Every Hindu observes the Janmāṣṭamī, Kṛṣṇa's birthday. But they are not very serious to understand Kṛṣṇa as a follower. Just like Christian. They admit they are Christian but don't follow the Christian principles. So that Hindus are also like that. Nobody is following Kṛṣṇa's instruction. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am God." Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "There is no more superior person or superior position than Me," Kṛṣṇa says. And "God" means that. In the dictionary "God" means the Supreme Being. Supreme Being means nobody is greater than Him; nobody is equal to Him. That is called supreme. So here God personally says that mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). But this rascal will not accept. They will say, "No, here is another dini-kṛṣṇa." They will bring one competitor. That is going on. "God" means there cannot be any competitor. Nobody is equal to Him; nobody is greater than Him. But they will bring so many competitors. "Why Kṛṣṇa alone will be God?" This is the position of the modern Hindus. They have lost their own culture, and they wanted to imitate Western culture. That they could not do, neither they could maintain their own culture. Therefore in the wilderness, very precarious condition.

Morning Walk -- March 11, 1975, London:

Brahmānanda: ...Calcutta, on the Maidan, there's that big building, that big memorial. Is that...

Prabhupāda: Oh, Victoria Memorial.

Brahmānanda: That was built for, the king when he was coming?

Prabhupāda: No, that was built in memory of Victoria. It was done, imitating the Taj Mahal. It took twenty years. Sir Rajendranath Mukherjee of Martin Company, he took the contract. And after finishing, he got this title, "Sir." And when it was being constructed, I went to the top by crossing the scaffolding.

Brahmānanda: So you must have been very brave.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I am still brave. (laughter) Otherwise how could I come alone to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness? I am still brave.

Devotees: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda!

Prabhupāda: Some astrologer told that "This boy, for executing his purpose, he will enter into the fire." Yes. (break) ...recently, in our Bombay affair, it was fight with the fire. Is it not?

Brahmānanda: Yes. Oh, yes.

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Oh, Dutch. Dutch people, there were.

Ambassador: Germans especially. But now may I ask you while I have the chance? You have had so much to do with bringing the dharma to the West. What is your idea? What is your mission? It seems to me, in many ways there is a transfer of the essential spirit going West, because the interest is there.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ambassador: And what is left in the East is so often just the materialism imitated from the West among many young people now.

Prabhupāda: Where, in the East? Yes.

Ambassador: In the East. So there's been a crossover taking place.

Prabhupāda: Hm, yes.

Ambassador: Do you see it like that?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. In Western countries they are now fed up with this materialistic way of life. And I think it will very soon collapse, the Western way of life. And naturally the next enquiry is spiritual.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: That's said. And that is much. These rascals are chewing the chewed. One thing one has chewed, and throwing it, and again another person trying to chew it—if there is any mellow, if there is any sweetness. This is going on. Just like our Indian leaders, they are going to chewing the chewed. They are seeing the effect of material civilization in the Western countries, and they are going to imitate it, thinking that they will be happy with that. They are giving up their own culture, and they are going to accept another culture which is already failed (?) andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. Na te viduḥ svārtha gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31).

matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā
mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha-vratānām
adānta gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ
punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām
(SB 7.5.30)

Adānta gobhir. Real disease is adānta go, uncontrolled senses. Viśatāṁ tamisram, entering into the darkest region of material existence. Punaḥ punaś carvita carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed, again and again, the same sense gratification. Sometimes as a human being, sometimes as a hog, sometimes as a dog, sometimes as a demigod. But the business is the same: punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Either at home or in the club or...

Brahmānanda: Why is India not satisfied with its own culture? If the Westerners are now going after the spiritual culture...

Prabhupāda: Because your forefathers came from England and taught them like this. That is the real fact. India was satisfied, but the Lord Macauley, they said no, that if you keep Indian as Indian, you'll never be able to rule lower down. Cultural conqueror. So they began to teach Indians England's work in India. "Whatever you have got, that is all nonsense. You learn from us." And the first product is Jawaharlal Nehru. This is the misfortune of foreign rule.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: Bhāratīya samskriti.

Prabhupāda: Bhāratīya samskriti. It will be very respectfully accepted. Why should we imitate them? That is... Western civilization is not brahminical culture. There is no brahminical culture. And brahminical culture is needed. That is the head. That is the brain. And a little bit of this brahminical culture, because I am distributing and they are accepting it so nicely... So in our India, in a place like Vṛndāvana, Naimisaranya, like that, many people will come, if varṇāśrama college is established. Of course, we, in India, so far I know, nobody will come to be trained up as a brāhmaṇa. They will prefer to be trained up as an electrician and not as a brāhmaṇa. Our Bon Mahārāja, he also tried for a Vaiṣṇava University. He was unsuccessful.

Governor: No, we take this electrician or engineer or an...

Prabhupāda: No, that is already being taken. There are institution where electricians are trained up and motorist, they are... They have enough.

Morning Walk -- April 23, 1975, Vrndavana:

Guest: If some definite example is there, then they will immediately copy. See, they are copy-minded. If suppose we open up a temple here and the conditions here improve, automatically everybody'll take up. So we will see next year. Automatically when things are done by copying, they would like to go by the copy method, not by experimentation. So if our temples are successful in Māyāpur and Hyderabad and everywhere, farms are attained, and if they are able to produce better things, they will understand, "Oh, because of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness, people are becoming more prosperous." Automatically they will come therefore.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, that is also nice. (break) We have no factory; we have no business.

Guest: People are wondering now. They are asking me.

Prabhupāda: So why they do not imitate this?

Guest: No, they will imitate. Because that's why we are going to Ahmedabad to that we can give the...

Prabhupāda: Yes, if that is, they want to see practically, so practically we have got 102 branches and maintaining so many men, but we have no business.

Guest: No, ISKCON has done better than any government. In ten years what ISKCON has done, no other government has done.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Even in America they are surprised. In our Los Angeles temple our devotees are inquired by the store men that "How you are maintaining? You do not work. You have got so many cars. You are eating nicely. You live in very nice building. How you are provided?" They are surprised.

Morning Walk -- April 28, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: During... And he was seeing, and everyone saying, "Get! Get down!" Caitanya said, "No, don't disturb. Let her see. She has got so much eagerness."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But we cannot imitate.

Prabhupāda: Imitation is always bad. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Imitation is always bad.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Did Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu have a daṇḍī or a tridaṇḍī?

Prabhupāda: Daṇḍī.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Ekadaṇḍī.

Prabhupāda: He took sannyāsa from Māyāvādī.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Why did Nityānanda Prabhu break His daṇḍa?

Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu does not require any.

Acyutānanda: After taking sannyāsa, though, He had śikha and Tulasī mālā? No.

Prabhupāda: He was Māyāvādī. (chuckles) (laughter)

Acyutānanda: Someone wrote that only Caitanya Mahāprabhu can say ahaṁ brahmāsmi. He is the only Māyāvādī who can actually say aham brahmāsmi, because He is Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: He is brahmāsmi, no. He is parabrahmāsmi. Kṛṣṇa-caitanya-nāmine. (end)

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: It means, this is government deceiving. The man is not there. And even if he is there, suppose the soldier after dying for his country has become a tree, is it a very good reward? (laughter) How foolishly they are thinking. We have to point out their foolishness. That is our business. They are working very hard, undoubtedly, but they are working foolishly. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). The result is simply they are becoming tired. That's all. Because they are not working intelligently, like monkey, he is busy all day. What is the value of your busy? You'll find the monkey is never sitting idle. He's always busy, "eḥ, eh, eh." (imitating monkey) So what is the result of that busyness? He's a monkey. And they claim to be coming from monkey, these rascals. So we can see that your monkey's quality is already there. (laughter) You have not improved more than monkey, because you are working uselessly. They are theorizing that they have come from monkey, and as soon as you say that you are monkey, they become angry. Just see. They are claiming that we are coming from monkey. And if you say you are monkey, no better than monkey, then they are angry. Just see.

Morning Walk -- May 11, 1975, Perth:

Devotee (2): So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, isn't Lord Brahmā the original spiritual master in our sampradāya?

Prabhupāda: Yes. But we should take that it was his līlā to show that "Even I am subjected. How much you should take risk here." We should take like that because he's our guru. We should not take him that he was subjected to lusty desires, but he made a show that "Even I am also subjected." And he gave up this, changed the body for that. Therefore we should not observe if there is a show of fault of the guru. We should take a different way. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). Just like the sun is soaking water from urine, but we should not imitate that, that "We also, let us take urine." Then you'll die. He can do so. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya. The sun can do that. Still he is not affected. Everyone knows the sun soaks water from the urine. But should you imitate that: "Oh, let me take urine"? No. It is not for you. That is advised. Īśvaranam, those who are īśvaras, the controllers, there is no fault. You should not imitate them; simply you should imitate their instruction. Not that their activities which we may not understand, why he is doing that.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Position. Material world means they want some material gain, some adoration, and some fame. That's all. This is material world. So if by bluffing you I get some material profit and adoration and fame, why shall I not do it? Everyone is doing that.

Amogha: That's the cheating propensity.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In material world they have come to imitate God—adoration, fame, material profit. Just like this man. He has come to this country. He is getting money, he is getting woman, and becoming God amongst the fools. He is satisfied. That's all. This is not gain? If I get woman, money, and adoration, is it not gain for me?

Gaṇeśa: Yes, just like Hiraṇyakaśipu.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Materialistic man means he wants all these things in different way. Somebody is becoming God, somebody is becoming philosopher, somebody is becoming scientist, in this way. Real purpose is these three things. Abha-pūjā-pratiṣṭhā. And our philosophy? We don't want anything of this. Just see. Negation. Na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ (Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4). Say... All denial, "We don't want." That is Vaiṣṇavism. Then what do you want? "We want simply to serve Kṛṣṇa." This is our position. They don't want to serve Kṛṣṇa; they want to imitate Kṛṣṇa. And that is their satisfaction.

Morning Walk -- May 13, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: You can cheat. (laughter) You can cheat. For Kṛṣṇa's sake we can cheat also. But don't be caught. Then it will be scandalous.

Gaṇeśa: Thank you. Kṛṣṇa is the biggest cheat.

Prabhupāda: Yes, He is big in everything, but you should not imitate, because you are not as big as Kṛṣṇa. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). He is very powerful. Before His power, everything becomes vāṇīshed. He remains powerful. But you cannot do that. "Kṛṣṇa is biggest cheater; therefore I shall become a cheater." That is not good policy. Then you will be finished. Just like the example is given that Lord Śiva drank the ocean of poison, and if you drink a drop, you will die. You cannot imitate the most powerful. That is not possible.

Jayadharma: You told Madhudviṣa Swami once in Sydney a few years ago that actually you're the biggest cheater because you're stealing away all our māyā.

Prabhupāda: What is that? I am...

Paramahaṁsa: He says that once you told Madhudviṣa Swami that you are the best cheater because you are taking away all our māyā and making us devotees.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. That kind of cheating is very good. (pause) Christ also spoke about nivṛtti-mārga. "Thou shall not kill." Because they were practiced to kill, and still they are practiced to killing. The first nivṛtti, "Thou shall not kill." The same thing, "Thou shall not covet."

Morning Walk -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Temple or no temple, you must be firmly determined. You can have God realization under this tree if you have got firm determination. Anywhere you can stay. But temple is the ordinary way, facility. If you are so, I mean to say, elevated, you may not come to temple, but ordinarily, for the neophytes, they must come to the temple. Why he does not come? Does he think that he has become very elevated? That is false. Haridāsa Ṭhākura, he was not going to the Jagannātha temple, but Jagannātha was coming to him. So if you are so strong like Haridāsa Ṭhākura, that is another thing. But if you falsely think or imitate Haridāsa Ṭhākura, then you go to hell. That's all. We should not falsely think that "Now I am advanced and elevated. I can do whatever I like." That is not our...

Amogha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, Lord Brahmā created something called self-deception. Would self-deception mean that if I think I am forced to fall down, but actually I wanted to fall down, but I think, "Oh, I am forced"? Is that self-deception?

Prabhupāda: Force? Force means if you violate the rules, then you are forced. If you contaminate some disease, then you are forced to suffer from the disease. If you don't contaminate, then you remain safe.

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: So less than we are.

Paramahaṁsa: Oh, yeah. You were here long before he was here. I think he came... 1968 he came. So you came three years before him. I have seen his āśramas in America. I saw one in Arizona. He has quite a large āśrama there. And I saw some of his smaller ones in New Guinea.(?)

Bali-mardana: I've seen them in Brooklyn, but it was just an apartment. It was not really an āśrama.

Paramahaṁsa: They have, in Phoenix, Arizona, they have a very nice place, very large building.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Paramahaṁsa: Phoenix, Arizona. It's similar to our Los Angeles branch. I think they tried to make... They have buildings, block buildings nearby, apartments for householders. In many ways they are imitating our movement.

Prabhupāda: But there is no Deity?

Bali-mardana: No, they worship the... (end)

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: Not just reading the books but there also must be chanting and following the regulative principles.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then you will turn your America as Vaikuṇṭha. And that is your duty, to save your countrymen. I think the America is... The people were pious in their past life. They have got this opulent position. Now they should use this opulent position. They have no poverty. They haven't got to work so hard, and they take advantage of this knowledge. Other countries, they are poor. They are busy how to earn their livelihood. But your country, because you are favored on account of your previous pious activities, you should utilize this position. People are embarrassed for improving their economic condition in other countries. Of course, if one is cultured, he is not embarrassed in any condition of life. But without Kṛṣṇa culture, poverty-stricken people, they are very much hampered. So you have no such problem. Therefore you can utilize your position, this opulent position, for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As a learned scholar you should advocate this cause. Why should you waste your time in sense gratification? That is being done by the cats and dogs and hogs. Why this life? That is also... We have described in the Fifth Canto, nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). For simply to satisfy the senses, why you should make such a gorgeous program for working? The sense gratification is enjoyed even by the hogs, the stool-eater. This particular animal is mentioned because they are gratifying senses without any discrimination. You will find the hogs eating stool, and they are with mothers and sister and have sex life, that's all. They have no discrimination. So this kind of sense gratification is there in the hog's life. So are the human beings to imitate the hog's life? This is the question. So they are imitating the hog's life, all the human being. This is the defect. Kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). Working so hard day and night, and only sex, that's all. This is life's enjoyment? This is a hog's life. And what else they have got happiness? We challenge them, "Except this happiness of sex, what other happiness you have got?" There is no answer. So this is being done by the hogs. Whole day and night they are searching after, "Where is stool? Where is stool? Where is stool?" And as soon he gets the stool and they have sex, that's all. Is that civilization, hog's life? And what is civilization? That is tapo divyam: "Just undergo austerities for realizing God." That is civilization. Work very hard similarly, but for Kṛṣṇa and not for imitating the hogs. Now, why I should be interested in for God realization? Yes, you should be. You must be. Why? Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattva: (SB 5.5.1) "By becoming Kṛṣṇa consciousness, your existentional constitution will be purified."

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: By the material life, these are our field of activities. The body is a combination of all these things. Just like a huge computer machine. It is made of these material things, but the mechanical parts are very minute, different. All these are matter. But within this matter, because the soul is there, therefore the finest machine is working. Just like your composition machine, (imitates machine:) "Kut, kut, kut, kut, kut, kut." But one has to push the button; otherwise useless. However very nicely made the machine, without a living being's touch, it is useless. So all this big machine, body, is wonderful so long the soul is there. And as soon as the soul is out it is lump of matter, useless, not worth a penny. Throw it away. So we are giving importance to the machine, not to the person who is dealing with the machine. This is the folly of modern civilization. We are thinking like child, "The machine is working independently." But that is not the fact. The big airship, 747, is flying because the pilot is there, and the pilot is a soul, covered by another bodily machine. And that, that is missing point in the modern civilization, that who is working with the machine. That they do not know. That is ignorance.

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Judah: Accept it as it is.

Dharmādhyakṣa: And be joyful. But they want to try to imitate the creation.

Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness. "Where angels dare not, foolish rush in. Where angels dare not, fools rush in." So big, big, giant, saintly persons, they simply admired, and they are going to understand it. What is that? And they can create, like that? They cannot create even an ant, a small ant, and they are going to create, imitate the creation of God. Just see. And we have to believe such fools. (laughter) This is our misfortune.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, because the Christian theologians do not have very much information about God, they are being very much influenced by these scientists and their conceptions.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, sva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). The same example. A lion is accepted as the king. He is considered to be the king of the beasts in the forest. And he is very much praised. But a human being will see that the lion is also an animal and those who are praising him, they are also animals. Is it not? So if some animals praises another animal, does it mean that the animal is very big? It may be very big for these animals, but lion is not very big thing to the human being. They can capture it. It is nothing. Actually, they capture and keep it in the zoo. So for a human being both the big animal and a small animal, they are animals, although the small animals praise the big animal. Do you follow what I said?

Morning Walk -- July 1, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: Oh, to accuse me? (laughter)

Brahmānanda: No, her son said she is very favorable. She's the mother of Parīkṣit.

Prabhupāda: Your mother was very angry upon us. (laughter) You know that? When she came to see me, I told, "Mrs. Bruce, can you give me some money?" (laughing) (Imitating angry woman's voice:) "I have given you two sons!" (laughter) She was very angry. "Still you want money?" (laughter) "And that's all right."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You asked them to bow down to her?

Prabhupāda: No, I asked him to bow down to your mother.

Brahmānanda: Yes, at initiation.

Prabhupāda: After initiation.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Did she like...

Prabhupāda: I gave her proper respect. Mother, after all, she is. She is fortunate mother. She has produced such nice sons. And I offered her respect, yes. Any of your mother and father, they are all very fortunate. And you are doing... giving the best service to your family. Our Nitāi's mother came. She looked very nice lady, yes. I think you are the first child.

Morning Walk -- July 1, 1975, Denver:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, I wanted to point out to you that the results...

Prabhupāda: No, artificial... Just like Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī, he was fasting, but he was not weak. That fasting. And he who will fast artificially and become weak, "I cannot work," that is not required. That is called markaṭa-vairāgya. If you fast and at the same time you do not become weak, then that is recommended. And after fasting you cannot do a flat, fall flat, then what is the use of fasting? Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī was fasting, but he was taking thrice bathing and offering obeisances hundred times. His regular activities was not stopped. And he was taking every alternate day a little quantity of butter. That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we cannot imitate his position.

Prabhupāda: That is not possible. We have to work.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. One of the important things about taking prasādam is that all the devotees sit together. It is actually a very spiritual activity. Just like in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, the feasts...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is recommended, that we are following. But now it is not following?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I have to say frankly, I have seen now that in many... I don't want to get into mentioning any names, but some devotees are preaching this.

Prabhupāda: Preaching? Who is that nonsense, preaching.

Morning Walk -- July 8, 1975, Chicago:

Tripurāri: Just like you have charmed all of us, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Well, I am not going to imitate Caitanya Mahāprabhu. (laughs) I have come to New York, not to the jungle. (laughter)

Sudāmā: New York is worse than jungle.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is called an asphalt jungle.

Prabhupāda: After all, they are human being. Therefore we have collected some nice souls. (break) If you can go to the jungle, that is no hindrance, but let us take the opportunity of the civilized nations, preach them. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ (BG 3.21). They are leading the whole civilization. If they are convinced, it will be great benefit to the human race. (break) Also my Guru Mahārāja said that "You go to the western country." If he had said that "You go to the jungle," I would have gone. (break) ...preacher, either the jungle or the city is the same. Nārāyaṇa-paraḥ na kutaścana bibhayati. One who is devotee of the Lord, he does not make any discrimination that "This is jungle and this is city." Svargāpavarga-narakeṣv api tulyārtha-darśinaḥ (SB 6.17.28). For them, everywhere, Kṛṣṇa's property. So where Kṛṣṇa asks him to go and serve, he will go. That's all.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1975, Chicago:

Devotee: They say they live for sixty years, so enjoy it while they can.

Prabhupāda: So that is foolishness. You are making, (imitates piledrivers sound) "Dung! Dung!" very solid, but you are not going to live. The "Dung! Dung!" but that's all. This is called foolishness.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think there was one great personality—I forget his name—he was going to live as long as how many millions of years that he had hairs in his head. What is that story?

Brahmānanda: The story of the man who was on the beach...

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. Romaharṣaṇa. Romaharṣaṇa Muni was standing on beach and was chanting. So Nārada Muni was passing: "Then why don't you make a cottage here?" He was: "Oh, how long I shall...?" That, his life, was: when one hair will fall, one Brahmā will die. (laughter) And in this way all the hairs, when they will fall—all the Brahmās will die—then he will die. And he was thinking, "How...?" Actually that is a fact.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Not in this country, in every country. Why do you say this country or that country?

Devotee: Well, I was saying about alcoholism in particular.

Prabhupāda: No, that is also in India. That is not uncommon. At least, they are learning, by your grace. (laughter) By imitating the western countries, they are learning everything.

Devotee: I was reading. There's a group called A.A., Alcoholic Anonymous, and they have a treatment for curing this disease. And it's the only one that's been successful. And one of the initial steps in achieving success in this method of theirs is that one agrees to the possibility of an ultimate reality or God. And because of that, they've had success in curing alcoholism.

Prabhupāda: What is that process?

Devotee: Well, it's a self-analysis. It doesn't go very far, but at least they accept that God exists and...

Prabhupāda: Self-analysis, that requires intelligence. But our process is, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." There is no difficulty. So it is better than A.A.

Morning Walk -- July 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dr. Atmaram.

Prabhupāda: Dr. Atmaram, that "We have simply learned how to bark like dog, but we don't care so many dogs are already barking." He admitted that if a man learns how to bark, people will purchase ticket and see him, and so many thousands of dogs, dog, are barking—nobody cares. This is scientist. You learn how to bark, imitate the dog, and you become important man. You have create one third fruit by mixing peach and plum, and one who is creating millions and trillions of fruits that is lying on the floor—nobody cares for that—he has no credit. These rascals wants credit for this most insignificant...

Satsvarūpa: They say their barking is an improvement on the original dog.

Prabhupāda: To another dog appreciates like that. (laughter)

Rāmeśvara: (break) ...philosophy is that originally God's creation is not perfect. It is... Nature is very wild, and man can make it perfect.

Prabhupāda: You have not come to that perfection, so you are not important. (break) ...Muslim country there is a word, khodaka upar kimvar dhari. (?) Khoda (?) means God. These rascals want to go above God.

Morning Walk -- September 9, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) ...in the Back to Godhead that those who have come to Vṛndāvana for sense gratification, their next birth is monkey and dog in Vṛndāvana; then, next birth, liberated. So they became angry. Vṛndāvana is not for sense gratification. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura therefore says,

rūpa raghunātha pade haibe ākuti
kabe hāma bujhabo se yugala pīriti

The rasa-līlā of Kṛṣṇa and Rādhārāṇī, a person like Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, "I could not understand it because I have not yet studied the instruction of Rūpa Gosvāmī and Raghunātha Gosvāmī, six Gosvāmīs. How can I understand?" So these people, they think by seeing rasa-līlā by professional men they will understand the līlā of Kṛṣṇa. Rūpa-Raghunātha instruction not cared for. But without going through the literature, Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, nobody can understand what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

rūpa raghunātha pade haibe ākuti
kabe hāma bujhabo se yugala pīriti
(Hindi) ...Goddess Kali.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda? You mention in your book that recently they have begun some demigod worship in Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not recently. Since very long time. These gosvāmīs.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Caste gosvāmīs. But originally this was not the fact.

Prabhupāda: Originally there was Rūpa Gosvāmī. Now they are imitating. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (end)

Morning Walk -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Cyavana: When you were speaking with those two boys last night, that was the Minister of Youth who was sitting with the High Commissioner. He was appreciating that they were coming to challenge, that they were understanding. They cannot understand their own so-called culture. They have not been able to get the young people here to adopt it. Instead they are trying to imitate the West.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Blind leading the blind.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. Did you understand the words, "The blind leading the blind"? Do you agree? (break) ...culture, the basic principle is mistaken, bodily concept of life. How it can be perfect? (break) ... world's present so-called culture based on misconception. Therefore it cannot be perfect. Whatever they are doing, it is failure.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Can't satisfy anyone. Now people are under the conception that culture means that you can satisfy anything you like, any desire. Therefore there is birth control and so many things. So they are thinking that "If we can satisfy all of our desires, it is very nice culture."

Prabhupāda: But where is satisfaction?

Brahmānanda: They think that unhappiness comes from repression of one's desires.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They think that actually that we're suffering from so many desires, that we must be very poor creatures because we become devotees.

Prabhupāda: So why so many desires? Because one desire is not complete, therefore you desire next. Therefore the process of desiring is defective, and our process is to purify the desires, not to remain in the imperfect platform of desiring, but whatever desire you have got, just purify it. Then it will be satisfied. So desire produced by bodily concept of life will never be satisfied. Therefore some of them are trying to become desireless, the impersonalists. Nirvāṇa.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:

ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ
mad bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati
bhaktiṁ mayi paraṁ kṛtvā
mām evaiṣyaty asaṁśayaḥ
(Bg 18.68)

"For one who explains the supreme secret to the devotees, devotional service is guaranteed, and at the end he will come back to Me."

Prabhupāda: Not to the fools and rascals. So first of all, to give them chance, let them come to the temple, take prasādam, hear saṅkīrtana, offer obeisances by imitating others. In this way, when they become little devotee, then instruct. Otherwise it will be useless. You'll waste your time by arguing.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You have given the example that the field has to be plowed before the seed is sown, cultivated.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Cyavana: The mind has to want that higher taste.

Prabhupāda: Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). So this process... Bring the... Invite them. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, dance, give them prasādam. Everyone will take part in this way, not immediately instructing that "You are not this body; you are soul." He will not be able to.

Morning Walk -- October 21, 1975, Johannesburg:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda's argument is that if life is not there in the womb, then how it develops?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the point. Just like the eggs. If there is no life, how the chicken comes? Why don't you manufacture an egg and bring life from it? That was... The other day I was talking. So because you are tenth-class rascal you cannot understand how the life is there. A seed. Take a seed. Unless there is life, how a big tree comes out of it? You manufacture something like that, imitating, and bring life. Life is there. Because you are tenth-class rascal you do not know.

Harikeśa: They also bring up the insane argument that life...

Prabhupāda: "Insane argument." How we have...? We have no time to hear such insane argument.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But these demons, Prabhupāda, they pose themselves as being very religious. They pose themselves as being very religious.

Prabhupāda: How they are religious?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They cite scripture.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) The scripture is also devilish. What is these marks?

Harikeśa: They grow the grass around the outside and when the green inside has some hole in it like there, they plug it up with that.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The scientists cannot immediately accept authority of the Bhāgavatam, that it will take hundreds of years.

Prabhupāda: Less intelligent. No intelligence. Therefore I was quoting that, sva-vi-varāhoṣṭra-kharai saṁstuta puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. This class of scientists and such, they are eulogized by small rascals. They are rascals, and small rascals... That is actually happening. Just like your President Nixon. How he was being given reception, crowd. Hundreds and thousands of people used to come. And then again get him down, make him humiliated as far as possible. So this is a rascal, Nixon, and the person who elected him, they are rascals. Therefore the Bhāgavata says, sva-vi-varāhoṣṭra-kharai saṁstutaḥ. Here is one big animal, and the small animals voting him. That's all. This is the society, animal society—the small animals praising the big animals. That's all. All of them are animals only.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Brahmānanda: He's imitating the birds.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughter) Just like this tendency was exhibited by Kṛṣṇa. In the forest the two brothers and other cowherds boys, they were also imitating. They were flying. The bird is flying; they were also flying like this. And coming to the monkey, coming to the peacock and imitating the..., like this. These are description in the Kṛṣṇa book.

Brahmānanda: But his imitating the bird means he will become a bird?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Brahmānanda: This man's imitating the bird means that he will become a bird.

Prabhupāda: Not necess... This is sporting. It will be decided what he is thinking at the time of death. That will become prominent.

Brahmānanda: Is it by chance what you think of at the time of death or is...

Prabhupāda: No.

Brahmānanda: ...it dependent?

Prabhupāda: It is dependent. Just like all of a sudden some idea come to us. That means we had contact with such idea. It is compared with... Just like there is a big pond. All of a sudden, you see, from within a bubble comes "phut!" There is no reason, but it comes. That means the thing is there within the pond, the situation. All of a sudden, without any time, it comes. They put this chance theory like this. But this is not chance. If... Because we are changing our life, so everything is recorded in the mind, dictaphone. So sometimes some idea which I had contact with many, many years ago, it comes. It comes. It is not chance. I had contact with such thing. All of a sudden, that idea comes. We shall go now.

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Indian man (4): The Indian people, when they see the Africans in the temple, singing and all that, they criticize, you know. They criticize us. They say, "Oh, you..." That boy, he told me. He read your Nectar of Devotion. Then he came to the conclusion... He read the story also of Mahārāja Ambarisa. So he used to go to the Hindu temple to clean the floor early in the morning before going to university. He told me that he went for one week and they never said anything. When he was going daily the temple, they told him, "Don't come here. Don't clean here. We don't want the African to come." So then he told me that "What should I do? I want to follow the Prabhupāda instruction. So what should I do? Prabhupāda said in his books that if one cannot do anything, simply he should go to the temple and clean the room." He was so serious. Then I told the pūjārī that "Why you are doing like that? He wants to serve the Lord. Why don't you let him serve? You want to keep out the inside the temple and throw the pots and the cigarette in the temple?" (?) So they criticize like that sometimes. They're simply imitating us.

Brahmānanda: There was a man yesterday at Dabji's house who was the brāhmaṇa who was officiating. He is a very much caste conscious brāhmaṇa, and although he and Shah were the first ones to meet you at the Nairobi airport when you arrived, in Nairobi, as soon as he heard your philosophy, he has never come. He came the first day only when you first arrived, and since that day he has never come. And yesterday I think he must have just come because Shah forced him. But he does not at all like our philosophy that brāhmaṇa by qualification. He is very staunch—"brāhmaṇa by birth."

Devotee (5): They always say the Africans could never become Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Prabhupāda: How they are becoming?

Devotee (5): They don't believe.

Prabhupāda: Believe? You do not see even?

Devotee (5): But they say that "Oh, he will do it, and then, after one year, he will stop."

Prabhupāda: Well, that is another criticism. Somebody is eating nice yogurt. Everyone will say, "Oh, it is very nice. It is very nice, very nice." Another man says, "Yes, it is nice, but after three days it will be sour." (laughter) You rascal, you consider for the present. What "after three days"? Means he's a bad critic, so he could not find out any fault. Everyone says it is good. So "After three days it will be bad." This sort of criticism. So you have already become bad. You were doing service to others. What does he do, that priest?

Brahmānanda: He's a businessman.

Morning Walk -- November 10, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Suppose if you have no temple, so you cannot perform arcana. So this is common, greatest common. It is not that because you have no temple, therefore your devotional service is stopped. There are other processes. You can do. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

Lokanātha: Prabhupāda? If we chant more than sixteen rounds, so how can we know whether we are imitating Haridāsa Ṭhākura or following his footsteps?

Prabhupāda: Imitation is also good. If you imitate Haridāsa Ṭhākura, that is also your great fortune, even if you imitate. (break) imitating, it does not mean you are condemned. Even if you imitate, that is also good. (break) If you have some other business and if you say, "Now I am imitating Haridāsa Ṭhākura, I cannot do it," that is very bad. "I am busy in imitating Haridāsa Ṭhākura." That is not good. That is very bad. (break)

Brahmānanda: If the devotees are asked for service they say, "Oh, I have to chant."

Prabhupāda: "I am imitating." Yes. "I am imitating Haridāsa. This is my first business." That is very bad. (end)

Morning Walk -- November 19, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, there is measurement. (break)

Jayapataka: Some people say that "You are coming to India for preaching, but we Indians, we already know all the, about Kṛṣṇa and Rāma. Why don't... You should be preaching in the West, where the people don't know."

Prabhupāda: But you know from the Western people. They are not... They are imitating Western people. You know from the Western people; therefore you have to learn from this Western people this also.

Brahmānanda: They are learning everything else from the Western people, so why not...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śrīdhara: Everyone in India knows the līlā of Kṛṣṇa, but the science of Kṛṣṇa, that they have forgotten.

Prabhupāda: They know līlā of Kṛṣṇa but they do not know Kṛṣṇa. Huh? Who was...? You were telling that Mr. Bajaj, he wants to take the instruction of Kṛṣṇa without Kṛṣṇa.

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Then how you will take this instruction when Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65)? If they do not take Kṛṣṇa, then how this instruction will be taken?

Girirāja: It can't be.

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: These four principles will make so many bogus bābās as useless, simply if you follow these four principles. (break)

Akṣayānanda: ...that Rāmacandra ate meat. Some people have said to me...

Prabhupāda: Rāmacandra can eat you and the whole universe. (laughter) Can you do that? By... Even Rāmacandra used to eat meat, so you can simply imitate for meat-eating. But why don't you imitate how to construct a bridge over the ocean? Why don't you say that Rāmacandra constructed a bridge on the ocean. Can you do that?

Akṣayānanda: No.

Prabhupāda: Then you are rascal.

Akṣayānanda: But in the Bhagavad-gītā it says, yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas (BG 3.21). Whatever the great men do, you must follow in their footsteps.

Prabhupāda: Yes. By their instruction, not by their activities. You should follow the instruction, not the activities. Has Kṛṣṇa said anything that "You also act rāsa-līlā like Me?" Has said?

Akṣayānanda: Never.

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Then how you can? These rascals, these Māyāvādīs, they play rāsa-līlā. (break) ...ācarati śreṣṭhas means that śreṣṭha is ordinary person, but not Bhagavān. Bhagavān can act any way. And still, Bhagavān has never instructed you that "You imitate Me in raising the Govardhana Hill." Has He said like that, that "You also raise the Govardhana Hill like Me"? (break) ...orders man-manā bhava mad-bhakto ṁad-yājī mām. That is for you. Always think of Him. Always become His devotee. Worship Him. Offer your obeisances. That's all. That is for you. Yasodamayi was asking Kṛṣṇa, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, can you bring the slipper of Your father?" He could not. He was a small child. Still, with great difficulty He could raise that. But the person who can raise the Govardhana Hill, He was feeling difficulty to raise the slipper? Why? If at that time He becomes like Govardhana, Giridhārī, then the līlā between father and son will be damaged. He plays just like a child. Although He can raise even in that age, to raise the hill. One should understand Kṛṣṇa. Everyone compares Him with ordinary man: "Kṛṣṇa has done this? Then I shall do." Kṛṣṇa has done so many other things. Why don't you do it? This rascal... Anyone who imitates Kṛṣṇa on the plea that "Kṛṣṇa has played this; therefore we shall do." He can do anything. He can eat meat and He can eat the whole universe. That was shown to His mother: "Mother, you are angry because I have eaten dirt. Now see within My mouth the whole universe is in. So what is the question of dirt and sea and ocean? I can eat everything." (break) ...sam na doṣāya. Just like this sun. It dry up this urine. It is not infected. But you lick up this urine and let us see how powerful you are. Tejasaṁ na doṣāya. Who is powerful, he can do anything and everything, whatever he likes. You cannot do that. (break) ...example. This urine, within an hour it will be dried up. How it is dried up? Due to the sun. But the sun is not polluted. But you try to dry up and see the result.

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Who said?

Hari-śauri: Well, I understood that that verse, yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas (BG 3.21), that was referring to Lord Rāmacandra.

Prabhupāda: Everyone is referred, but whatever Rāmacandra says, you should do that. You should not imitate. There are two words: following and imitating. Imitation is not good. Following is good. Yad yad ācarati zreṣ... You can... That I have already explained. Can you construct a bridge on the ocean? You are claiming, yad yad acarati. Can you do this? Then why do you say like that? You cannot imitate. You can follow only. "Because Rāmacandra ate meat, so I am eating meat. I become Rāmacandra." And why don't you construct a bridge on the ocean?

Akṣayānanda: So actually, perfect kings, they may have eaten meat? Perfect kings...

Prabhupāda: No, perfect king must follow the Vedic injunction.

Akṣayānanda: They would never eat meat, even though they are kṣatriyas.

Prabhupāda: No, kṣatriyas are allowed. That is by hunting, not otherwise. Or yajña. Everything is there in the śāstra. (break) ...candra, even He was eating meat, is there any instance in the temple Rāmacandra is offered meat? Then why do you claim, "Rāmacandra used to eat meat, therefore I shall eat"? All rascals. Kṛṣṇa, He ate fire, khāṇḍava-dāna. But what He asked you to offer? Does He says that "You offer Me fire"? He says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). Does He say that "You give Me fire. I shall eat"?

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (smiling, touch of irony) Yes. That also is difficult.

Akṣayānanda Swami: Yes. (laughing)

Prabhupāda: Otherwise, Haridāsa Ṭhākura was chanting 300,000. So, That is not possible. You should not imitate, but whatever you fix up you must do.

Akṣayānanda Swami: Yes. Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is wanted.

Akṣayānanda Swami: Yes. I was told in the beginning you asked the first disciples to chant 64 rounds?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I asked them to chant 32?

Prabhupāda: (grinning) Hm.

Akṣayānanda Swami: Is that correct?

Prabhupāda: Śaṅkhy-pūrvaka nāma-gaṇa-natibhiḥ. Śaṅkhya purva, or numerical strength must be there. And you should follow rigidly.

Page Title:Imitate (Conversations 1968 - 1975)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:15 of Feb, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=119, Let=0
No. of Quotes:119