Expressions researched:
"identifiable"
|"identification"
|"identifications"
|"identified"
|"identifier"
|"identifies"
|"identify"
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Prabhupāda: You are acyuta-gotra. You can say acyuta-gotra. Acyuta means never falls down.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Never falls down.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There is such a gotra as that?
Prabhupāda: Yes, acyuta-gotra. All devotees are... We are identified with Kṛṣṇa's family, acyuta-gotra. (break) ...madhye rathaṁ sthāpaya me acyuta. Acyuta is Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa conscious man means acyuta-gotra. (end)
Prabhupāda: So everything is fact. But the real knowledge is to find out the source of the fact. That is real knowledge. Just like if we ask any gentleman—at least in India—for your identification, your father's name is required, your name of the village is required. If you go to the court, then such and such; father's name, such and such; village, this; religion, this; like this.... So father.... Why father's name? "What is the source of your existence? Wherefrom you are coming?" "I am coming from this family." So that is knowledge. Atom.... Atomic theory is there in Vedic conception, paramāṇuvāda. Kaṇada, the great sage, Kaṇada, he gave this theory, Kaṇada. Paramāṇuvāda. Paramāṇuvād. Paramāṇuvāda is accepted in Vedic philosophy also. But we know what is this paramāṇu also. Just like the sunshine. What is the sunshine? A combination of shining atoms. But we can see it is coming from the sun, incessantly coming. We can see. We can, immediately say, "This is.... The source is the sun." Similarly, the paramanu, the atoms, they are incessantly coming out. But wherefrom it is coming?
Prabhupāda: Then we discuss other things. This is the primary education of spiritual life. First of all you have to understand that you are not this body. You are living entity, different from the body. Just like you are different from the shirt-coat. But the difficulty is, the person who is in a different type of shirt-coat, he is identifying with the shirt-coat, and they are fighting. You have got black coat. You have got white coat. You have got yellow coat. But they do not understand, none of us belong to the coat. We are different from the coat. That is ignorance. The whole world is going on under this impression that "I am this body." So how there will be peace? That kind of thinking is there in the dogs, in the cats. So our point is that if you remain like cats and dogs, how you can attain peace? You are endeavoring for peace. It is not possible. First of all you understand yourself. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). These things are discussed there.
Prabhupāda: That you'll understand when you actually understand yourself. You do not understand yourself. You cannot understand why Kṛṣṇa said that "You fight." First of all understand yourself. That is the first instruction the Arjuna was given, that the.... Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). He's not teaching how to fight. He's teaching the philosophy. Try to understand the, I mean, step by step. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a scientific movement. It is not a religious faith. That is not. The beginning is that as the child grows to become a boy and boy grows to become a young man.... This is scientific. It is not the question of religion. It is religion.... According to Sanskrit, the dharma, the word dharma, that is translated into "religion," and religion means a kind of faith. But it is not like that. It is a science to understand your real identification. And because Kṛṣṇa we worship.... Every big man should be worshiped, so Kṛṣṇa we accept God. They take it as religion. But He's God. That's a fact. God-worshiping is religion.
Prabhupāda: Purport.
Rāmeśvara: Purport. "By practice of yoga one becomes gradually detached from material concepts. This is the primary characteristic of the yoga principle, and after this one becomes situated in trance, or samādhi, which means that the yogi realizes the Supersoul through transcendental mind and intelligence, without any of the misgivings of identifying the self with the Superself. Yoga practice is more or less based on the principles of the Patañjali system. Some unauthorized commentators try to identify the individual soul with the Supersoul, and the monists think this to be liberation. But they do not understand the real purpose of the Patañjali system of yoga. There is an acceptance of transcendental pleasure in the Patañjali system, but the monists do not accept this transcendental pleasure out of fear of jeopardizing the theory of oneness.
Prabhupāda: Realization of spiritual identification.
Makhanlāl: Realization of spiritual life?
Prabhupāda: Identity.
Makhanlāl: Identity? (break) Brahman realization for the devotee in the beginning is just that he realizes his constitutional position as servant of Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is next. First of all, that "I am not this body." That is Brahman realization.
Makhanlāl: So we may only be partially situated in that realization in our present level of devotional service.
Prabhupāda: You realize or not realize, if you remain on the platform, that is same. (break) ...in Kṛṣṇa's service, that is brahma-bhūtaḥ stage. (break)
Prabhupāda: To understand his spiritual identification. At the present moment, this age, all over the world, things are passing on on the bodily concept of life. But we are not this body. That is the defect of modern civilization, that there are two things—one, the body; and the moving force which is moving the body. So they are taking care of the body, but they have no information what is that moving force. They are presenting some foolish theories that the body is moving by chemical composition, by this, that, but actually they do not know what is there. The chemical composition..., what is that? Frankenstein or something?
Prabhupāda: No, why deny the body? Just like you are putting some type of dress. So dress is not unimportant. But real importance is you, the person. So where is that education about the real person? They are simply engrossed with the dress. This is going on. Such kind of mentality is there even within the cats and dogs. He's also thinking "I am this body." If a human being does not understand this fact, that he is not this body, he is changing his body, but he is spirit soul, then he is no better than the cats and dogs. We do not want to keep the human society in the category of cats and dogs. We want to raise them to the real understanding of his identification. That is our mission. It is neither Hindu religion or Muslim religion or.... This is science.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We must come to the correct position of our spiritual life, then it is perfection of life. Otherwise, they're ignorant. If the husband comes at home and the wife calls him by the name, "John, come here." "Oh, you are not addressing 'my lord,' " it will be ridiculous. He might be "my lord," in the court, but when he's in the family, the wife calls by the name. So our, with the change of dress we are changing our name, circumstances, thoughts, and everything. Therefore we find differentiation. American, Indian, Hindu, Muslim, black, white, this, these are all designation of the dress. And therefore we do not agree. As soon as I accept, identify myself with the dress, there will be disagreement. And as soon as we, everyone of us, we know that this is superficial, this is dress, I am spirit soul, then there will be agreement. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu, find out this verse. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu (BG 18.54). So without this understanding they have opened United Nations, keeping them cats and dogs. And they are simply barking, that's all. This is going on. For the last forty years simply they are barking. What achievement is there? In your country, who is the president gave the black man same liberty?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, yes. That is your natural position. You are protected, and God is protector. That's a fact. You cannot live even for a moment without protection of God. That is your position. That is explained by Caitanya Mahāprabhu: jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). Perhaps you have read it in Caitanya-caritāmṛta. You have read Caitanya-caritāmṛta? Yes. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, He immediately gives the definition and position of the living entity: jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa. Sanātana Gosvāmī asked Him, "People glorify me that I am very learned scholar." Grāmya-vyavahāre kahe paṇḍita satya kari' māni. You understand Bengali? Grāmya-vyavahāre kahe paṇḍita. "My these neighbors, they call me paṇḍita. And I accept, 'Yes, I am paṇḍita.' But I am such a paṇḍita," āpanāra hitāhita kichui nā jāni, "I do not know what is my aim of life and what is good for me. I'm such a paṇḍita." Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu answered, 'ke āmi,' 'kene āmāya jāre tāpa-traya' ihā nāhi jāni kemane hita haya. So mistake is, Caitanya Mahāprabhu immediately pointed out, that "You are learned, of course, there is no doubt, but you are submitting yourself as others..." Now He said that "You have questioned that ke āmi, 'Who I am?' " So He said that "You are servant of God. That is your real identification." Then He begins teaching.
Prabhupāda: He is not devotee. He's pretending to be devotee. One who is devotee never falls down. There are so many false devotees. He falls down.
Devotee (2): Prabhupāda? In 3.4 Bhāgavatam Lord Kapiladeva speaks about the feeling of loss, the conditioned soul in the material world when he's identifying with matter.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Devotee (2): Kapiladeva speaks about the feeling of being lost. Is that what the psychologists say is craziness?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Puṣṭa-Kṛṣṇa: The feeling of being lost. Kapiladeva's instructions? He wants to know if the identification with matter is the same thing as craziness.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes it's also seen, say, that Muslims and Hindus they will be converted to Christianity, and the same argument can be given. So what would be the difference for the, in this case, that one who is identifying himself as Christian or one is identifying himself as devotee of Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: First of all, you have to understand what is religion. The religion is God's law. You have to understand. Religion does not mean your manufactured, concocted ideas. What God says, that is religion. So here Kṛṣṇa is God. He is saying. Therefore this is religion. Is that clear? Make it clear. So long one point is not clear, don't go to the next point.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Especially he is trying to inquire that it appears that India, for example, today...
Prabhupāda: Sanātana means eternal. So na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The identification of the living entity is already described, that it does not perish after annihilation of this body. That is sanātana. So that is meant for everyone. Not that the Hindus, after giving up this body, exist, and the Muslim or Christian does not exist. Everyone exists. Everyone is eternal, so sanātana-dharma is meant for everyone.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is there anyone actually outside of sanātana-dharma then?
Prabhupāda: If he thinks. Otherwise nobody is outside. If you think that you are not... There are so many rascals, they think that with the body everything is finished. But he may think so, but that is not fact. Similarly, if one thinks that "I am not sanātana-dharmi, I am Christian." You may think like that, but actually you are sanatanist. But if you think otherwise, you can think. Who can check it? When Kṛṣṇa says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), the soul does not annihilate after the destruction of the body, is it meant for the Hindus? Everyone. Everyone is a living entity, everyone is a soul, and he's eternal. And eternal means sanātana.
Rūpānuga: Yes, Paris.
Prabhupāda: They identified "Napoleon is France." France is there, but where is Napoleon? They do not consider like this. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Blind man be happy that Lincoln was here, that's all. Where he is now? Or he's finished. If he's finished, why you are worshiping his shirt and coat? What is the answer? What is their answer? If he's finished, what is the use of worshiping his shirt and coat?
Vipina: They say that what he accomplished, although it may not be the final answer, it was a step forward, and therefore he should be worshiped.
Prabhupāda: That is nice. (break) ...trees very long?
Vṛṣākapi: Just pine trees and oak trees. No fruit trees. (break) He was run over by a car, he was intoxicated.
Prabhupāda: Then? What happened, he was not identified?
Vṛṣākapi: They said that he lived in these woods back here, way back in the woods.
Prabhupāda: Oh, drunkard.
Vṛṣākapi: Yes. They had many cars here all day for two days. All the police, ambulance, TV.
Prabhupāda: To take photograph?
Vṛṣākapi: To take photograph of the place. It became a monument. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: First of all, we have to talk with them about this, "What is life?" Then they will talk. If they are on the bodily conception of life, they are animals, which is not. First of all, you have to talk with them on this platform, "What is life." Identification.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: To me, my feeling was that they somewhat look down. They look down in their feeling.
Prabhupāda: Look down?
Hari-śauri: They think they are superior.
Prabhupāda: But you did not talk with him and argue?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I argued.
Prabhupāda: What is life.
Prabhupāda: No, he was a big worshiper of Kali. And he was meat-eater also, Ma Kali's prasāda, that unless one eats that prasādam he cannot become a devotee. So this was his position, that he worshiped Kali, and later on by worshiping Kali... His picture is there, mother Kali's embracing. And he also preached yata mata tata pat: "Whatever path you take, accept, that is all right." Is it not? So do you think it is all right? He worshiped Kali and he said yata mata tata pat. You agree to this? Now, Ramakrishna says yata mata tata pat. And Kṛṣṇa says... He became Ramakrishna, identifying himself with Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa said mam ekam, and now he's becoming Kṛṣṇa, he says yata mata tata pat. Just see. When he's actual Kṛṣṇa, he says mām ekam, and when he became imitation Kṛṣṇa, he says yata mata tata pat. Kṛṣṇa has changed his views. (laughter) Just see, this foolishness is going on.
Prabhupāda: No difference. That is described in the śāstra. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). This body is made of... Everyone knows what is the composition: the bones, the flesh, the blood, the urine, the stool and so on, so on. The body, what is the composition? This is the composition. So if I identify with these bones, flesh, blood, muscle, veins, and stool, urine, so I am a living entity, I am all these bones and flesh and blood?
Mr. Loomis: Is it better to have a human body as a machine to use than a cat's body?
Prabhupāda: Certainly, in the sense that you can utilize for higher purposes. Just like you have got this human form of body. Therefore you are sitting here to hear me. The dog has no such facility. The dog has got the same legs, hands or mouth and tongue, and so on, so on, in a different way. But it has no capacity to hear about spiritual advancement of life. Therefore the human body should be engaged not simply for sense gratification. Kāmasya nendriya-prītir (SB 1.2.10). Find out this verse. Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā. This is the business, tattva-jijñāsā. Tattva-jijñāsā means to inquire about the Absolute Truth. That is the only business.
Prabhupāda: Umhm.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Others insist that the style of shaving the head identifies devotees of various spiritual orders. The long śikhās marks a man as a follower of Kṛṣṇa. Still another group says that the head-shaving simply stands for renunciation of the material world, its values and its pleasures. One or more of those reasons may be the true one. Possibly all of them have a multi-determined, have multi-determined the Kṛṣṇa cut. The how of the cut is simplicity itself. Commonly two men cut each others hair. Our pictures show how. Phase one of the cutting, known as the buzz-off, is done with ordinary..." (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Buzz off? (laughter)
Prabhupāda: No, material standard is no intelligence. Material standard is that "I am this body. I am American. I an Indian. I am fox. I am dog. I am man." This is material understanding. Spiritual understanding is beyond that, that "I am not this body." And when he tries to understand that spiritual identification, then he is intelligent. Otherwise he is not intelligent.
Interviewer: So does this mean...
Prabhupāda: They have been described as mūḍha. Mūḍha means asses. So this is the first understanding, that one should not identify with this body.
Interviewer: What understandings come after...?
Prabhupāda: Just like dog. Dog understands that he is body. If a man also understands like that—he is body—then he's no better than the dog.
Prabhupāda: Of the car.
Interviewer: And who is that?
Prabhupāda: That is, we are contributing. People are in ignorance about his own identification, who is he. He's thinking he's dead body. That is misconception.
Interviewer: There's no way to identify the driver of the car then.
Bali-mardana: No, no.
Prabhupāda: Just see it is so difficult subject matter. I am speaking to you, still you feel difficulty. It is little difficult subject matter. We say the car and driver, if you understand this analogy, the car and the driver, so who is important? The driver is important, the car is important. Both combined together giving a service, the car is moving. But if they are separated, who is important, the car is important or the driver is important?
Prabhupāda: Not too much.
Interviewer: At all.
Prabhupāda: He should know that he is different from the car. That is real knowledge. And if he identifies himself with the car, then he's a fool.
Interviewer: Well, can he, is he supposed to care about and honor the body in the physical world...
Prabhupāda: That is already taken.
Interviewer: ...and to see that, see the physical world as important?
Prabhupāda: Suppose if you are utilizing this coat, you are taking care of it, but if you think that you are coat, then you are doomed.
Interviewer: Well is it important to try to improve this life so that it won't be a prison?
Prabhupāda: Yes, improve, improve, to understand that I am not a person of the jail. I am a person of freedom. Long living in the jail one who identifies that "Without jail I cannot live."
Interviewer: Well, I hope we all get out of it sometime, somehow, someway, either here or there.(laughs)
Prabhupāda: But we are trying to educate the prisoners that "Your life is not perfect within the jail. Your life is perfect without the jail." This is our education.
Interviewer: Life is not perfect in the jail.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And the person in the jail they are thinking, "What is this, they are not working for the jail life?"
Prabhupāda: That may be Hindu religion. But we do not belong to any religion. That may be true for the Hindu religion what the professor has said, but we do not identify with any religion. We are different from any religious system.
Interviewer: But the scriptures are the same, the Vedic scriptures are Hindu scriptures.
Prabhupāda: No, Hindu religion... Of course, the scripture is the Vedic principle, but the word is not Vedic. This word Hindu is not Vedic word.
Bali-mardana: Hindu is not Sanskrit, it's just a popular, general term.
Prabhupāda: Vedic, Vedas, Vedas, that is real, the word. But they have taken it in a different way. Actually the "Hindu," this name is given by the neighbor Muhammadans. There is a river called Sindhu. That river is still there, it is now in Pakistan. So outside the border of India, the Muhammadans, they used to call the inhabitants of the neighborhood of that river Sindhu, Hindu. Because they pronounce s as h. So this is the origin. So "Hindu" is a title given by the Muhammadan neighbors. It is not found in the Vedic literature.
Prabhupāda: So tomorrow I shall take lunch at 1:00. That's all. Then, by 3:00 o'clock, I shall be ready. (to Indian man:) (Hindi?) Kṛṣṇa is preparing you to join this movement wholeheartedly. It is very nice. Now you have got it?
Jayādvaita: Yes. Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja quotes, ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). "All these incarnations of Godhead are either plenary portions or parts of the plenary portions of the puruṣa-avatāras, but Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself." Then he says, "The Bhāgavatam describes the symptoms and deeds of the incarnations in general and counts Śrī Kṛṣṇa among them. This made Sūta Gosvāmī greatly apprehensive. Therefore he distinguished each incarnation by its specific symptoms. All the incarnations of Godhead are plenary portions or parts of the plenary portions of the puruṣa-avatāras, but the primeval Lord is Śrī Kṛṣṇa. He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the fountainhead of all incarnations. An opponent may say, 'This is your interpretation, but actually the Supreme Lord is Nārāyaṇa, who is in the transcendental realm. He, Nārāyaṇa, incarnates as Lord Kṛṣṇa. This is the meaning of the verse as I see it. There is no need for further consideration.' To such a misguided interpreter we may reply, 'Why should you suggest such fallacious logic? An interpretation is never accepted as evidence if it opposes the principles of scripture. One should not state a predicate before its subject, for it cannot thus stand without proper support.' If I do not state a subject, I do not state a predicate. First I speak the former and then the latter. The predicate of a sentence is what is unknown to the reader, whereas the subject is what is known to him. For example, we may say, 'This vipra is a greatly learned man.' In this sentence, the vipra is the subject, and the predicate is his erudition. The man's being a vipra is known, but his erudition is unknown. Therefore the person is identified first and his erudition later. In the same way all these incarnations were known, but whose incarnations they are was unknown.
Prabhupāda: That's a fact, that I say always.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "But the Kṛṣṇa people were not entirely free of harassment. Along the parade route three men, including one who said he was an Evangelical Christian minister, jeered at the parade and called on parade watchers to become Christians. 'Idol worship. This is absolutely ridiculous. Read the Bible,' cried one man who would identify himself only as a normal Christian. There was a brief scuffle when an Indian immigrant tried to tear a large placard out of the hands of another heckler. The placard read 'Turn or Burn.' The police broke things up but made no arrests. 'They are insulting us,' said the Kṛṣṇa follower who declined to identify himself. 'I'm a devotee of Kṛṣṇa and Christ. These people who are doing this in the name of Christ are criminals.'
Prabhupāda: Just like if you have got a car to drive on. So naturally you take care of the car also. But not that you identify yourself, "I am this car." That is nonsense. They are doing that. They are taking too much care of the car, thinking that the car is one. He forgets that he is different from the car, he has got different business. He cannot eat the petrol and be satisfied. He has got different eating. But these rascals, they are thinking that "Petrol is also my eating." And they are drinking petrol and dying, that's all. Petrol is meant for the car, and for you there are so many fruits, flowers, milk. But if a man thinks that "I am the car, I must drink this petrol," then he is doomed.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: Seems they're always carrying little snippets of information about what we're doing. Before there was a report about the restaurants, and here there's two reports about..., one about the Jagannātha festival in New York and one about the proposed Vedic university in Kurukṣetra. These were on consecutive days. The one about New York, it says, "Washington, July the 19th." That's where it's reported from. It says, "New York saw on Sunday an unusual spectacle of three brightly colored chariots being pulled along the city's prestigious Fifth Avenue from Central Park to Washington Square, a distance of about five kilometers, by members of the Hare Kṛṣṇa group. The rathas, built in Orissan style with giant wooden wheels, attracted large crowds of spectators all along the route. It was a novel experience for the New Yorkers. Many resident Indians who are not members of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement enthusiastically gave a hand in the pulling. The Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees were celebrating the feast of Jagannātha in the traditional Indian way. The police and the city administration readily cooperated. In a city that is coming to be known for its tolerance of diverse cultures, chariot processions promise to be an annual event. While a few citizens booed and some altercations were reported, the spectacle was well received by the New Yorkers. 'I think it is great,' the New York Times quoted a man as saying. The person, who identified himself as a visitor to New York and was not a Hare Kṛṣṇa fan, referring to the Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees, added, 'They are all happy and dancing, and that's what life's all about.' Later a vegetarian feast was served to the admirers."
Prabhupāda: You have to leave, you cannot stay. You do not want to leave, that's a fact, but you'll be kicked out. When Napoleon fought for France, he did not like to leave, but he was kicked out. I have seen in one park, there is a Napoleon Bonaparte there, France and Napoleon identified. But France is there, Napoleon is kicked out. (laughter)
Bhūgarbha: He's asking that in view of that, is it possible to live a household life and at the same time a spiritual life?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Arjuna, Arjuna is a householder, he's a military man, but the greatest devotee of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That is for the dress. What about the man who's using the dress? You are identifying the dress with the man. That is foolishness. As soon as you say "dress," you should have to find out the man who has got the dress. Then it is perfect understanding. But if you understand the dress and the man the same, then you are foolish. Dress is not the man.
Indian man (3): No, dress is not the soul, but dress is again the body.
Prabhupāda: Dress is the body. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). That is explained. This body is just like dress. So, but the dress is different from the man who puts on the dress.
Indian man (3): Well, that is different. Man is different.
Prabhupāda: The dress, it becomes old and it will be changed.
Prabhupāda: Brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20) means first of all you understand your identity. You are now identifying yourself as Indian, or as brāhmaṇa, or as kṣatriya, or white, or black, and so many things.
Indian man (4): My first identification is my own body.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is ajñāna. So long you are identifying with the body, you are no better than the animal. So we are doing that. We are fighting. "I am Indian. You are Englishman. You are this. You are that. You are..." Simply we are fighting, like cats and dogs, they fight. So that is ajñāna. How you can be prasannātmā? So when one becomes actually situated in spiritual life, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). That is the... In this way when you make further progress, when you actually understand that you are eternal servant of God, then you surrender. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). This situation takes many, many births to cultivate. And when he actually understands, jñānavān—not fools, rascals—then māṁ prapadyate, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19).
Prabhupāda: Yes. So if we do not take advantage of the opportunity of understanding my identification, then we are committing suicide, jumping like cats and dogs, that's all. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). Such persons have been described as go-kharaḥ. Go means cows, and khara means ass.
Indian man (3): Khara means?
Prabhupāda: Ass. I think this khara is word is used by Urdu. Phir vamusthi vrsti kharaḥ. (little discussion in Urdu or Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). One who identifies his body.
Indian man (5): Mūḍha, you explained last night.
Prabhupāda: But as soon as we say, "Oh, this is Hindu idea"—reject immediately. This is science, and they are taking "Hindu idea."
Indian man (2): The problem is that identification only. Otherwise it is universal philosophy.
Prabhupāda: It is universal, but they are taking it as Indian.
Indian man (2): In order to identify that, Vedic, let's say Indian, actually that is not Indian.
Prabhupāda: No, whatever it may be. Knowledge is knowledge. It may be Indian or American. It doesn't matter. Just like university. Some student from India go to university in America to study higher knowledge. So that means that because he has gone to America, that is American knowledge. Knowledge is knowledge. So they should take on this background, but they are thinking that we are spoiling their children, brainwashing, controlling the mind, because against their principle, against their uncivilized way of life: meat-eating, illicit sex, intoxication. This is uncivilized life. Why a man, civilized man, shall eat meat?
Prabhupāda: I will give you practical example. Just like you take red water, colored water. So put into the sea, does this mean that sea becomes red? That little spot may be for the time being. Besides that, merging, this is the philosophy of the Māyāvādīs. Actually that is superficial. Just like a bird, green bird, enters into the green tree. You see that bird is vanished. Because the tree is green and the bird is green, you do not know the separate identification. But the bird is there, separate identification. It is not the bird has become zero. A airplane goes to the sky, after some time you don't find the airplane. That doesn't mean the airplane has no more identity, separate. It is separate. It is your defective eyes that you cannot see, that it has got separate existence. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that, "I, you and all these kings who are assembled here, we existed in the past, we are now existing, and we shall exist in the future." That means individual existence will continue. He explains past, present and future. So where is imagination?
Prabhupāda: Yes, paraṁ pada is just like you fly in the sky, go very high. So from here we cannot see that you are separately existing. But you are separately existing. It is my deficient eyes that I see that you are not separate. (?)
Mr. Malhotra: Identification will remain always?
Prabhupāda: Always. Therefore it is said in the śāstra, āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ (SB 10.2.32), ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ... It is said, "My Lord, the lotus-eyed, vimukta-mānina, if somebody artificially is thinking that he has become liberated or merged into the existence, āruhya kṛcchreṇa, for which he has undergone very severe tapasya," āruhya kṛcchreṇa... Kṛcchreṇa means with great difficulty. Paraṁ padam, brahmajyoti, patanti adhaḥ, "again he falls down," anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ... Just like these rascals that are going in the sky to find out a place in the Mars and in the Moon. And why they are coming back? If actually one has gone, then why he's coming back?
Rāmeśvara: This man was saying that in the Bible there is a description of God speaking to Moses and Abraham, and He identified Himself as Jehovah, not Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That is the main point, that what God said.
Rāmeśvara: What God said? He told Abraham to go to Israel and to worship only Him. He said, "There shall be no other Gods. Just Me." And then He told Moses the Ten Commandments.
Prabhupāda: So God said that... God must say. So you say God: Jehovah; and we say God: Kṛṣṇa. What is the wrong?
Rāmeśvara: "The wrong is that Kṛṣṇa was a man who lived on earth five hundred thousand years ago and..."
Prabhupāda: So Jehovah was God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is social animal. "Society, friendship, and love." They say "divinely bestowed upon man." So because we are strongly in misunderstanding our identification, we take this society as divinely. But we have got the society that is not on the bodily conception. Otherwise, these European, Americans, Africans, Canadians, they would not have come together. This is a different platform. It is a society, but on the spiritual platform.
Guest (1): Sir, may I know the meaning of the divine name Hare Kṛṣṇa and Hare Rāma? The real meaning of the divine name Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Rāma?
Prabhupāda: You are falsely identifying with this body. You do not know. Therefore you have no brain or intelligence.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What would you have us identify with? How would you have us identify?
Prabhupāda: Identify that the thing which has gone out of this body, that is your identity.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is that?
Prabhupāda: That is that soul.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nobody can see the soul.
Prabhupāda: That does not mean there is no thing. At night, suppose if you, at night you don't find any light, you can understand that there is no light. Otherwise at night this is darkness. If there is somebody, there would have been light.
Hari-śauri: Symptoms of life.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) But he admitted. (laughter)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The general idea is just like this page, "Chant and Be Happy." But there is practically no devotees shown. The whole idea is that if you show devotees, no one will be able to identify with the devotee. So they're showing persons in material life, and each one of them is giving his opinion of why he chants. "Chanting makes me calmer," "Chanting makes me more perceptive," "Chanting makes me more open-minded." So these are all... (break) ...the ultimate goal of chanting is to instill love of God, but that thing is never mentioned. (break)
Brahmānanda: Then he would approve. That was the test.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Probably not to be identified easily.
Guest (1): Disguise.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It came in the papers that the government was giving contracts to his son's businesses, and he was taking commission and keeping them in foreign banks. And they were giving contracts to her son's businesses at a higher rate than the market. There was open tender, and even though his rates were higher, he was still getting the contracts. And he was getting 21% commission from these companies and keeping them abroad. So it just shows how corrupt these leaders are.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Thieves.
Guest (1): No, they have taken hundred crores of rupees from State Bank of India.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Sixty lakhs.
Guest (1): No, hundred crores in one day after election. Hundred crores of rupees taken from State Bank, and there is a big inquiry about that.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: After which, this election?
Guest (1): Yes, yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hundred crores!
Guest (1): Congress Party has taken out. State Bank, the biggest bank in India.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Withdrawn from the bank.
Guest (1): Yes.
Prabhupāda: How State Bank gave them?
Indian man (3): We need the substratum because of which we identify with the processes.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Indian man (3): We need the substratum because of which we see the differences.
Prabhupāda: Difference is there in your body. Do you think the head and the leg the same thing?
Indian man (3): But certain occupation...
Prabhupāda: No, no, I mean to say that you have to take work from the head and from the leg, but head and leg different. Sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya (BG 18.46). That is science. If you want to take the work of head from the leg, that is foolishness. Head must remain head, leg must remain leg, but you take the work of leg for walking; you take the work of the brain for thinking. That is wanted. Evasive is no good. So anyway, our mission is that Indians especially, they should take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā—not by distorting the meaning. As it is.
Prabhupāda: No bona fide person will say that "I am God." As soon as one says that "I am God," he's a rascal immediately. God is not so cheap. Caitanya Mahāprabhu never said. He said, "I am the servant of the servant of the servant of servant of God." Gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ (CC Madhya 13.80). Hundred times down. And that is real identification. And as soon as a person says, "I am God," then he's a madman. He's part of God. That is all right. But not the Supreme God.
Indian man (4): Can we find the one in ourself? Can we find the one in the basis of ourself?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Indian man (4): The one in the basis of ourself?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "Can we find the one in ourselves?
Prabhupāda: He is yogi. There are many varieties of yogis. And Kṛṣṇa concludes, "Of all the yogis, big, big yogis, the person who is always remembering Kṛṣṇa and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra is first class." This is said by Kṛṣṇa, not by me. Therefore it is authorized statement. Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all these mystic powers... They may be temporarily some magic, but Kṛṣṇa says that "One who is always remembering Me," satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14), "he is first-class yogi." So all these persons who are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa according to the prescribed rules and regulations, without any offense... There are ten kinds of offenses. So in the beginning there may be offenses. It doesn't matter. It will be rectified. Offenseless chanting means mukti, and then pure chanting means love of Godhead. There are three stages. In the beginning, when one begins chanting, it is not pure. There are so many offenses. But chanting, chanting, the offenses become purified. Offenseless chanting is not purified completely, but it is offenseless. So offenseless chanting makes one liberated, and then pure chanting makes one lover of God. This is the process. So chanting is definite mystic power. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam: (CC Antya 20.12) "By chanting, your heart becomes purified." Ceto-darpaṇa. We are suffering in this material world on account of... (background talking) (aside:) Ask him not to talk loudly. On account of impurities... (aside:) What is the use of talking? The first impurity is identifying... (aside:) Stop him. Don't talk at all.
Prabhupāda: You see everything. That means the body is finished. The body is finished. Childhood body is finished. Why do you say "He is my son"? Although this previous body is finished, he has got another body. You are confident. Otherwise how you say "Here is my son"? Body has changed, but your son is there. And your friends say, "Oh, he is your son? Oh, I saw him, little boy." And he could not identify. The father knows that he is the same. That is the difference. The other man, he could not believe that child has become so grown up, young man. Father knows it. "No, he's the same child." That is the difference. Unless one understands this very first instruction, eternity of life, so-called scientists, philosophers—all nonsense. All rascals. Animal. The animal even. The so-called scientists, they are no better than the animals. That's all. They cannot understand the very simple thing. Animals cannot know. Otherwise any sane man can understand. (break) As soon as he changes the cloth, it is... No, I can change this cloth. That does not mean... I am the consciousness. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni...
Prabhupāda: Just see. Such a good certificate.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Satsvarūpa, American-born personal secretary to Swami Bhaktivedanta, presents the official Hare Kṛṣṇa approach." They don't even identify you. They know who you are. You are so well known in these literary circles now that someone says, "Swami Bhaktivedanta." They don't have to say "Founder of ISKCON." They know already from your other books. "...presents the official Hare Kṛṣṇa approach in an articulate and highly serviceable introduction to this immense body of literature. The readings include the Īśopaniṣad, the Bhagavad-gītā and excerpts from Purāṇas, supplemented with a glossary and index. Preliminary essays detail the logic by which his group rejects both the academic experts and the rival approach of advaita-vedānta that Westerners know through the writings of Vivekananda and Radhakrishnan. This is a book long needed to balance out the monist theology that is but one aspect of Indian religious thought." In other words, this is one of the first books to present the Vaiṣṇava viewpoint, not simply the Māyāvādī viewpoint. He says, "It's well needed." That's all he's written.
Prabhupāda: Very appreciated. Very much appreciate.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What kind of preaching can you do now?
Haṁsadūta: We can preach because we're not identified as Tamils or Hindus, because we are white, so that still attracts the people. We preach in public halls, rent hall...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So they lifted the curfew.
Haṁsadūta: The curfew's over now.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do the Singhalese take interest as much as the Tamils?
Haṁsadūta: Yes, they do actually. Actually the Tamils in Śrī Lanka, they're all demigod worshipers. They worship Durgā and Gaṇeśa and Śiva. There's practically not a single Kṛṣṇa temple on the whole island. I was really surprised. Well, that's the situation. They're all demigod worshipers.
Prabhupāda: Demigod worship means followers of Vedas.
Prabhupāda: Take Chandra with you.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Take Chandra. Really, you should take his help for the whole thing. He can definitely be of help. Now, the other thing I'm giving you is the receipt for safe custody. Actually, because we're doing everything through the bank, neither of these are actually required. But it will be further proof of your bona fide by showing here you are with these things. Then obviously you're the correct person. It just further identifies you. Otherwise how could you get these things.
Vrindavan De: I should give them to the...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, you can give them... They may not even ask for them, but you can show them: "I have these. Do you require them?" If they say yes, then you take a receipt from them.
| Page Title: | Identification (Conv. 1976 - 1977) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 10 of Nov, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=47, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 47 |