David Lawrence: One other thing that interested me was the idea that Arjuna was in some way ...
Prabhupāda: Friend.
David Lawrence: ...deliberately, if you like, deliberately misguided, planned almost to be misguided in the Bhagavad-gītā. How, how is this work, like...?
Prabhupāda: If he does not be... He was purposefully misguided so that he could put question like a misguided man...
David Lawrence: Yes.
Prabhupāda: ...and the right answer may come from Kṛṣṇa. It is for our benefit. He's not misguided.
David Lawrence: No.
Prabhupāda: But he played the part of misguided.
David Lawrence: Yes. What we would say and...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like a person is playing in the stage as a fool, but he may be very educated man. So... But for the dramatic expression of talks, he might play as a fool. Similarly Arjuna's position is... How...? He cannot be misguided; he's personal friend of Kṛṣṇa.
David Lawrence: Yes.
Prabhupāda: He cannot be misguided.
David Lawrence: But it was for our benefit.
Prabhupāda: But... And nobody can talk with Kṛṣṇa also. Nobody is so qualified. So somebody who would talk with Kṛṣṇa who must be very qualified, but he's playing the part of a befooled man. Otherwise, he's not misguided. He knows everything. Yes.
David Lawrence: One other point, and again a practical point really, this one. This is about the nature of the book. I suggested early on that I hoped that I might get the cooperation of somebody like George Harrison. What would you think about this? Do you think, with your knowledge of the young mind, particularly the young western mind, that this might be a good means through to the young people...?
Prabhupāda: It is not the question of western mind, eastern mind. Any sincere student will take to.
David Lawrence: No, I was thinking in terms of the western mind with its culture, more than of philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Western mind... I, I do not find any difference between western mind and eastern mind. Because so many western mind is changed. Yes. So there was no difficulty. Two, two plus two equal to four is to be understood by the western mind and the eastern mind. You cannot say, because you are western mind, you'll say, "No, two plus two equal to five." You cannot say that. So there may be some influence of the culture, but that is superficial. When you speak the real truth, science, that is equally applicable to the western mind and eastern mind. There is no difference. If you speak the real truth... Two plus two equal to four, mathematical calculation, nobody will deny, either western mind or eastern mind. Yes. So he must be reasonable. That's all.
David Lawrence: Yes. That's it.
Prabhupāda: So we expect every human being, rational... Eastern, western, there is no difference.
David Lawrence: As you see from my plans, really what we hoped to do was to, if there was any cultural difference, to some extent eliminate that cultural difference.
Prabhupāda: Then the first thing is therefore you have to understand that "I am not this body." The cultural difference is on account of this bodily conception of life.
David Lawrence: Yes. Yes.
Prabhupāda: But if we transcend the position of our bodily concept of life, we come to the spiritual platform. So there is no difference.
David Lawrence: The difference is irrelevant then.
Prabhupāda: No. There is no difference. Just like we are talking. You have got a coat. I have no coat. That does not make any difference. We are talking as gentlemen. That's all. The last time when I was in Calcutta I was invited by the Indo-American Cultural Society, and they gave me the subject matter: "East and West." So I talked, "We don't find any such distinction, 'East and West,' when we come to the spiritual platform. This is all material platform."
David Lawrence: We find when we're teaching, you know, really secular youngsters that it's terribly difficult to get off this cultural veneer, you know.
Prabhupāda: Therefore one has to understand first that "I am not this body."
David Lawrence: That's it. And you've got to believe... The teacher... This is the big thing, isn't it? The teacher has got to be God conscious.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
David Lawrence: So he believes that there is the God conscious experience.
Prabhupāda: He must realize that he's not this body. He is different from body. But I am encaged now in this body under certain condition. So at least this... This is called jñāna. Jñāna. So long one is in the bodily concept of life, he is affected with so many things. So many things. So this bhakti-yoga begins when one is purified from the bodily concept of life. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). Now, these boys, they are coming from different nations. But they never think that one is Englishman, another is American, another is Indian, another is African. No, we don't think like that.
David Lawrence: No.
Prabhupāda: At least, we have surpassed that stage. If we have not advanced in any other way, (laughter) at least we have advanced in this respect. We don't consider on the bodily concept of life. What do you think?
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is our qualification. Yes.
David Lawrence: Unfortunately, as we find, the youngsters that, certainly that I teach, have got such materialistic views of their...
Prabhupāda: If you keep the students as English boys or American boys, then it will be difficult. Then the, the cultural question will come up.
David Lawrence: Yes, yes. We try to bring in as much... In fact, now we have a new course... This is the sort of thing that's happening.