Prabhupāda: Sense gratification you can get in hog society, dog society, without any, I mean to say, extra qualification. That is... Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. Viṣaya means this sense gratificatory business, you will have in any life. In bird's life, in dog's life, in cat's life. So do you think that human life is also meant for that purpose? Then what is the meaning of civilization? Is that civilization? If the end of life is the same, just like cats and dogs, is it civilization? They do not know what is civilization. They have forgotten. They think that eating very nicely in a palatable dish, that is civilization. But eating is eating. And if you eat... If you are hungry, anything satisfies you. That is eating. Finish. You can eat. Sleeping. When you are fast asleep, you do not know whether you are on the nice building in a nice apartment. You are dreaming that you are thrown into the ocean. So sleeping. So simply for nice arrangement for sleeping, is that civilization?
Hunger (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: (laughs) That's nice. That is very nice. Yes. If one gets Kṛṣṇa actually, he or she forgets everything. That is sure. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ nādhikaṁ manyate tataḥ. After getting Kṛṣṇa, nobody wants to get anything more. He is full. Svamin krtartho 'smi. "My dear Lord, I am now fully satisfied." That is the preaching we are making, that everyone is trying to love something. Either personally his body, senses, or then expanded; wife, children; then family, community, society, and country, humanity; extending. But there is no, I mean to say, satisfaction. Because the real lovable object is Kṛṣṇa. And when he goes to Kṛṣṇa, then, oh, svamin krtartho 'smi. The same example: just like you are feeling hunger. Now, somebody told you, "Give food." So you are trying to put food in the nose, in the ear, in the mouth, in the anus(?), in this and that. No satisfaction. You give it here, oh, fully satisfied. We do not know where to put our love. That we are teaching, best spot. Most valuable conclusion.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Why he is crying? If he is hungry, let him come here. We shall provide him. Why he is crying for that? What business he has got to cry, "What will they do?" What they will, that they know. Why he is crying? What is his business for crying for this future? If he is hungry, let him come and we shall provide him. This is not... That is a childish conception. "If everybody becomes sādhu, then what will be the nature of the society?" That is, never becomes. That never becomes. To become sādhu and to become a Vaiṣṇava is not so easy thing. These idle questions, why they publish? I do not know. This is idle question. It never becomes. Lord Kṛṣṇa personally says that "You simply surrender unto Me."
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Everyone must have his food." And in the Vedic conception of gṛhastha, householder, it is recommended there that a householder shall see that even a lizard living in the room or even a snake living in that house should not starve. They should be also given food. And what to speak of others? The gṛhastha, before taking his lunch, he is recommended to stand on the road and declare that "If anybody is still hungry, please come. Food is ready." Then, if there is no response, then the proprietor of the household life, he takes his lunch. In this way there are so many good concept about this socialistic idea of communism. So I thought that these ideas might have been distributed to some of your thoughtful men. Therefore I was anxious to speak with you.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because the one son of God is not allowing the other son to come in. And that he hasn't got the right to forbid. Just like your father has got ten sons. So all the tens sons have got the right to use the property of the father. That is law. Similarly, all the living entities, not only human beings. Birds, animals, birds, beasts—everyone. This is called spiritual, or transcendental, communism. According to Vedic civilization, a householder has to see that even a lizard in the room is not fasting, to see whether it has got his food. Even there is a snake in the house, the householder is to see whether the snake has got his food. A householder would stand on the street, and before taking his food, he will say loudly, "If anyone is hungry, please come. Still I have got my food." And if there is no response, then he takes prasādam.
Śyāmasundara: Even that, a good play or a good music is not very long lasting. When you come out of the theater you're hungry. When your hunger is satisfied then you want some sex life. Then you want to drive home fast. There's always something there to agitate the material senses.
Dr. Weir: The trouble is, aren't you going to lead yourself into this difficulty: if you are spiritually satisfied you would sit down and do nothing and if everybody were doing that we should be rather back to where we started rather than have enough food or music or transport.
Prabhupāda: That is for the voidist, not for the spiritualist. The spiritual life there is enough activity for even scientists. That they do not know. They mean spiritual life is void. That is negation of the present activities only, negative idea. But actually when you stop material activities your real activity begins. That is spiritual life. The spirit, spirit soul is active. You cannot stop it. You cannot stop it. Now it is acting through the coverings of material, matter, therefore it is imperfect activities. But if the activity is uncovered by material things that is real activity.
Dr. Singh: And the sheep are very hungry. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: I want to revive brāhmaṇa-ism, kṣatriya-ism. Unless you do that, there cannot be any peace. Dharma. Dharma means this classification dharma. There are two kinds of dharmas. One, material dharma, and another, spiritual dharma. Actually, dharma means spiritual. But so long we do not come to the standard platform of spiritual dharma, we have to regulate our life in such a way that we may come ultimately to the spiritual platform. So that material dharma is that, as Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13).
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: When you see Him. (pause) Then you'll understand. Just like when you eat you needn't require to ask anybody whether you are feeling strength or your hunger is satisfied. If you eat, you understand that you are satisfied, you are feeling strength, you're feeling energy. It doesn't require to inquire anyone. Similarly, if actually, if you serve God, then you'll understand that "God is dictating me. God is, I am seeing God."
Bob: And what kind of charity is it when you give to, food to somebody who is hungry?
Prabhupāda: Well, that is also depends on goodness and passion and ignorance. That example I was giving, that a doctor has forbidden that "This patient should not take any solid food." But if you make charity, "Oh, he..." And he's asking "Give me some solid..." Sometime patient asks. And if you give him solid food, then you are not doing good to him. That is ignorance.
Prabhupāda: No, he has got full individuality, but he sacrifices individuality for pleasing Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, "You surrender unto Me." So he voluntarily surrenders. Not that he has lost his individuality. He keeps his individuality fully. But because Kṛṣṇa desires that he should surrender, he never minds. He's individual. Just like Arjuna, in the beginning he was declining to fight on account of his individuality. But when he accepted Kṛṣṇa as his spiritual master, he became śiṣya. Then whatever He ordered, "Yes." That doesn't mean he lost his individuality. He voluntarily accepted, "Whatever Kṛṣṇa says, I shall do it." Just as all my disciples, they have not lost their individuality, but they have surrendered their individuality. That is required. Just like if a man does not use sex, does that mean he has become impotent? If he likes he can have, thousand times sex life, but he has voluntarily avoided it. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). Sometimes we fast, that does mean we are diseased. We voluntarily fast. It does not mean that I am not hungry, I cannot eat. But we voluntarily fast.
Prabhupāda: No India, of India, don't talk of India. Talk of the philosophy. If there is no devotion, Kṛṣṇa does not accept anything, either in India or in your country. It is not... Kṛṣṇa's not obliged to accept anything costly because it is very tasteful. Kṛṣṇa has many tasteful dishes in Vaikuṇṭha. He's not hankering after your food. He accepts your devotion. That out of... Bhaktyā, tad aham aśnāmi. Bhaktyā upahṛtam, real thing is devotion. Not the food. Kṛṣṇa does not accept any food of this material world. But He accepts only the devotion. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26), tad aham aśnāmi bhaktyā upahṛtam. "Because it has been offered to Me with devotional love," that is required. One who has no devotional love, from his hand... Therefore we do not allow anyone to cook who is not a devotee. Kṛṣṇa does not accept anything from the hands of a nondevotee. Why should He accept? He's not hungry.
Prabhupāda: No relatively. Relatively maybe. You are more hungry than me. But that does not mean you are not hungry or I am not hungry. I don't feel hungry now, that does not mean I do not feel hungry or I am not hungry. For the time being you may not be hungry. Tomorrow you'll be hungry.
Bob: What I feel is that somehow these people that... Everybody around them may be stealing, but they still stand up and don't steal. That these people somehow deserve something good to happen to them.
Prabhupāda: But the man who is thinking that he's not stealing, he's also a thief. Because he does not know that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore whatever he's accepting, he's stealing.
Prabhupāda: Because in the Bhagavad-gītā we hear, mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanam that God is in everyone's heart as Supersoul. Now, I am thinking of getting something. So God knows immediately that "He wants to have this," so He gives me the necessary thing which appears to me as chance, without knowing God. The things are supplied by God because He is giving me all facilities to enjoy this material world to my heart's content by supplying all the ingredients. That is the material condition. So these foolish persons are taking as chance, but it is not chance. God is omnipotent. As soon as He understands that I want this, He gives me some facility so that I get it. So it is not chance. It is by arrangement of superior authority. But because they are atheists, they have no sense of God consciousness, they are taking as chance, that necessity creates that chance; automatically it is coming. Not automatically. Chance does not mean automatically. I cannot see something, but all of a sudden falls... Just like I am hungry, I want some food. So Kṛṣṇa knows it that you want some... Some way or other, the food comes to me. So it is the arrangement of Kṛṣṇa, but I see it is chance: "I was hungry and by chance the food has come." That is my less intelligence. It is not chance; it is plain. Otherwise you cannot adjust the meaning of chance in that way, that as soon as there is necessity, immediately the opportune chance comes before us.
Prabhupāda: No no. You invite them, that "Anyone, you are welcome. Take prasādam." We can announce. Then you can judge how many people are coming daily. You should announce that "Anyone can come and take prasādam at noon." It is the duty of a gṛhastha to loudly cry, "If anyone is hungry, please come. We have got still food." That is the duty of a gṛhastha. If one does not come, then the chief of the house, he takes prasāda. If somebody says, "I am hungry," so he should offer his own food. "You eat." This is duty of gṛhastha. Bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā ye pacanti. Those who are cooking for themselves, they are simply eating sinful things. That's all. Bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt (BG 3.13). So hospitality is one of the duties of the householder. Atithi. Atithi means guest without any information. That is called atithi. Tithi means date. So if I go to your house, I inform you that "Such and such date I am coming there." But atithi, he does not inform you, all of a sudden comes. So you should have to receive him. That is called atithi. Pāntha. People are moving... Formerly, if some of the walkers in the street, suppose he has become hungry, so he enters anyone's house. So "I am hungry sir. Give me something to eat." He'll immediately, "Take." Pāntha-bhāga. There is a stock of foodstuff which is called pāntha-bhāga. If somebody comes all of a sudden, he should take.
Prabhupāda: Yes. For weeks they prepare. And the competition is the more items the temple prepares, he becomes... (break) And distribution, prasāda distribution, free of charges. It was a very nice system that nobody should remain hungry. That is the system. If there is any temple in any neighborhood, in that neighborhood nobody should remain hungry. The Vedic system is that in your house, a householder shall see that even a lizard in the house is not hungry. He must also be given food. Even there is a snake—nobody likes snake—but a Vedic householder has to call the snake and give him food. He also may not remain hungry. This is the... And these things will be explained in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that anything, wherever it is, on land, on the air, sky, within the water, everywhere, God's kingdom; and all living entities, they are God's sons. So everyone has got the right to take advantage of his father's property. This is Bhāgavata communism. The communists are thinking in terms of their own country. But we, a devotee, we think in terms of all living entities, wherever he is, either in the sky or in the land or in the water. These things are explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Everything, politics, sociology, religion, philosophy, science, astronomy—everything is there in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And we should not take this movement as a religious movement. It is not religious movement. It is a movement for understanding knowledge. Veda. Veda means knowledge. So religion, according to English dictionary, is a kind of faith. Faith you can change. You have faith today in something. Tomorrow you may change. So this is knowledge. Any human being must be interested with advancement of knowledge.
Prabhupāda: That's it. Even you get bread, what do you get? Bread is already given even to the animals. That they do not know. Therefore, they take religion for material gain. Dharma artha. And Bhāgavata says, arthasya dharmaikāntasya kāmo lābhāya hi smṛtaḥ. When you get money, it is not for satisfaction of your senses. Kāmasya nendriya-prītir (SB 1.2.10). And when it is the question of kāma, desire, that does not mean sense gratification. Lābho jīveta yāvatā. Simply you have to accept thing for living. It is not that you shall not eat. You eat, live. Then what for living? Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā nārtho yaś ceha karmabhiḥ. Your working so hard is not that to develop your material condition of life. You live peacefully without any disturbance of hunger, but your life should be engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, asking about Kṛṣṇa. That is life. So we don't want to stop all the activities. But they are busy always, they have no time for... Ask all these men, they are obstructing: "What these people are doing?" There is no end of their sense gratification. First of all get one motorcar is required, "All right." As soon as he gets money, "I'll purchase another one for my son, another for my daughter, another for my wife." Going on, going on. And he has to maintain four motorcars, then work hard, hard, hard. So indriya-prītiḥ: "Oh, I have got a car, why not my son?"
Prabhupāda: Simply sitting down like this. He cannot ask whether he is hungry or not. His daughter is always attending, giving him some food, then he is eating. Otherwise, he does not say. Lost everything. He has mentioned Bhagavad-gītā as a mental speculation, in his Indian Religion. So he is such a great offender, he must suffer. But it is good for him. Because he is a gentleman, therefore his offenses are being compensated in this life.
Prabhupāda: Well, President Nixon means this country. Why he went to China? Why he went to Russia? He's also afraid. If there is war there will be great calamity. So everyone is afraid. Everyone is under the control of the laws of nature. Everyone is hungry. So actually nobody's powerful in this material world. Even if he's powerful, it is for temporary. So many Hitlers, so many Napoleons, so many Churchills and others came and gone. There was powerful British Empire, powerful Roman Empire. So nobody's powerful. That's a wrong idea. In due course of time everything will be kicked out and finished. That is the law of nature.
Prabhupāda: I'm not feeling very much hungry. Don't prepare now. If I feel hungry, it can be done. Call Śyāmasundara.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Would you have any instructions as to how I could serve you better? For me?
Prabhupāda: By convincing people of... (end)
Prabhupāda: Such poor fund of knowledge, he is advertised as great scholar. He has no knowledge, and he writes Bhagavad-gītā. And now he is... For this offense he is now dead body. He cannot recognize any man, like this. He cannot say, "I am hungry." His daughter is always attending, giving some food, sitting idly. Just... What is the month?
Śyāmasundara: In Madras? We were there in February.
Prabhupāda: Yes. February. Yes. I was there. I saw him. I saw Mr. Raja Gopala Acarya with him. So he is a dead body, living dead body.
Prabhupāda: No. If you have the determination, Kṛṣṇa will help. If she is determined that "Even if I die, I shall not smoke," then Kṛṣṇa will help her. And if she thinks, "So I'll not do it. If Kṛṣṇa likes, He will help me." (indistinct) Just like (indistinct). He has prepared some nice foodstuff. So he says, "If Kṛṣṇa comes, I will give Him; otherwise I shall eat." (laughter) "And if Kṛṣṇa is very hungry, He will come." So this alternative proposal is not accepted. "If Kṛṣṇa comes, I will offer Him this. Otherwise I shall eat."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is personal motivation.
Prabhupāda: This is not surrender.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: He's a nonsense. He's a nonsense. Now he's suffering. I saw him last year in Madras. He has lost his brain. He's suffering now. You cannot ask him whether he's hungry or whether he wants some... Only his daughter is attending and here he cannot understand who is standing before him. He cannot speak. Like that. (Hindi) He has committed so much offenses under the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi for some minutes) ...very meritorious. I think you cannot understand Hindi.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In my body, there are millions of living entities. In my intestines, there are so many worms. If they, if they become stronger, then whatever you eat, they eat it. You don't take any benefit out of it. Therefore those who are full with these hookworms, they eat very much, but they do not grow. They become lean and thin. But they are very much hungry because these living entities are eating, and he's feeling hungry. And he's eating, but he cannot take any benefit out of it. He's lean and thin. So already there are thousands and millions of living entities in my body. But they are individual, I am individual. I may be proprietor of this garden, but there are many millions of living entities living in this garden. Similarly I may be proprietor of this body, but many millions of living entities are living in my body. I know that. Otherwise, how hookworms coming out of my intestines? So you cannot say that the chemical is lacking. Chemical is not lacking.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Nature? That means you have taken from somebody. You have not created. You have stolen. Thief you are. And we say: "Yes, you have taken from the nature, but every property of nature, that belongs to Kṛṣṇa." Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Īśāvāsyam, it is all God's creation. And that is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Yes... If one does not perform yajña, he's a thief. Yajña means acknowledging that things have been taken from Kṛṣṇa. And we must satisfy Kṛṣṇa. "Kṛṣṇa, You have given so many things for our maintenance." This much acknowledgement Kṛṣṇa wants. That's all. Otherwise, what He can expect from you? What you are in His presence? Prasāda. Prasāda means acknowledging: "Kṛṣṇa, You have given us this foodstuff. So first of all You taste. Then we take." This much. Kṛṣṇa's not eating. He's not hungry. He's eating. Although He's not hungry, He can eat the whole world. Again produce it, as it is. That is Kṛṣṇa's power. Pūrṇāt pūrṇam, pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate (Iso Invocation). Kṛṣṇa is so perfect, that you take from Kṛṣṇa, whole Kṛṣṇa's energy, still the original energy's there. That is conservation of energy.
Prabhupāda: Scientists means they must do something mischievous. That's all.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Ultimately, they're saying that: "In the future, we'll make tablets, scientists will make tablets, just, taking one or two tablets and they will be satisfied, their hunger." So food will be very simplified.
Prabhupāda: But the food value will be taken by him. "Instead of paying to the stores, you pay us. We give you tablet."
Kṛṣṇa-Kāntī: As the Kali-yuga advances, the human beings will eat their children too. Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Just like in the last war, they ate stool, their own stool, out of hunger. So when there will be no foodstuff, they will kill their own children. Already they are killing, abortion. Not only abortion, children grows... By surgical instrument, they kill and they take out the child... They are already killing.
Kṛṣṇa-Kāntī: When they take the pill, the birth control pill, are they killing their children too?
Prabhupāda: Killing means killing, what is that? What he is asking? I do not...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He is asking that they take the pill, birth control pill.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that is one kind of killing. But directly killing. They, through some instrument, through the vagina, they kill, cut into pieces and get out. Living children. He is a scientist. That surgeon, he is a scientist, and doing this business.
Prabhupāda: Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). (People enter room, pause, moving tables, etc.) Take prasādam. Prasādaṁ prāpti-mātreṇa bhoktavyam. ("Prasādam should be eaten as soon as one obtains it.") Take.
Śyāmasundara: You must be hungry after all that hard work. (Eating, etc.)
Prabhupāda: This is halavā?
Devotee: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: Yeah, it's bananas and cream. Everything.
Prabhupāda: Hmmm.
Śyāmasundara: The cream in England is excellent. (pause) (break)
Prabhupāda: So if the monarch becomes ideal, it will be very nice.
Prabhupāda: That means I must have improved. Otherwise, how I am eating? I could not eat.
Śrutakīrti: No hunger.
Prabhupāda: No hunger.
Śrutakīrti: India is so hot. It's so hot there you don't want to eat.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śrutakīrti: Bothersome.
Dhanañjaya: It was a nice talk.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But has the agricultural education improved their lot? No. Starving people are still there. Rather, those who can produce, they're producing and throwing into the sea. They'll not part with it for the poor men who are starving. Then where is the advancement of education? You produce more by advanced agricultural process and then throw it into the ocean. Real purpose was to produce more to see that nobody's hungry. That is not being done. There is no sympathy. This is not civilization. This is a hodge-podge. Simply wasting labor. That's all. Now here, the Parliament, now what is the use of Parliament? They have lost their empire. What is the use of Parliament? Formerly they had to rule all over the world. So representative, Parliament... Now they have got... What they have got? But still they have got the Parliament, the bodyguard, the King, Queen. Show only. Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, this so-called advancement of civilization has no meaning. Simply waste of time.
Prabhupāda: No. This is from the western world. This is very nice argument, that in the jungle there are carnivorous animals, but they don't maintain slaughterhouse. Neither they attack unless they are hungry. Otherwise, in Africa, there is national...
Haṁsadūta: Park.
Prabhupāda: All the animals are freely rotating.
Buddhist Monk (1): Or they think their life is in danger.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Buddhist Monk (1): If one radiates love and kindness...
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. Defense is allowed to everyone. You must defend. That is another thing. But ordinarily, not that because a lion has got jaws and teeth, therefore he's simply jumping over. Not like that. Even people have experienced that when the, these ferocious animals, they are not hungry, they don't attack. They don't attack.
Prabhupāda: But their nature is to eat meat. You have to give him. That is different thing. But they can be tamed. But not very trustworthy. (laughter)
Buddhist Monk (1): If they get a little irritated and hungry, they may go to gather.
Prabhupāda: No, if you give them nice food, they'll never attack you.
Haṁsadūta: In the Bible also, in the very beginning page, there's a verse. After God created everything, the animals and the trees and everything, then He gave allotment of food to the human society. It says very plainly that "The seed-bearing plants and trees of the earth shall be your meat, or shall be your food."
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our mission.
Lord Brockway: And at the present time you haven't got those conditions. Because of inequalities, because of poverty, because of hunger, because of war, you haven't got those conditions.
Prabhupāda: No, I...
Lord Brockway: And therefore, therefore, it is not only the goodness of an individual which you want. You want, combined with the goodness of an individual, of an understanding of the causes...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Lord Brockway: ...which lead to hunger and poverty and war.
Prabhupāda: That...
Lord Brockway: It's only when you have those two things together...
Prabhupāda: Yes, we have got...
Lord Brockway: ...that you can bring about a solution.
Prabhupāda: Because people are godless at the present moment, they're suffering.
Devotee: Hungry.
Cardinal Danielou: Hungry, we are hungry, it is legitimate, legitimate... We have... It is difficult to admit that in India, comment dit-on les vaches?
Yogeśvara: The cows.
Cardinal Danielou: Oui, the cows.
Prabhupāda: One thing is...
Danielou: It is not permitted to kill a...?
Yogeśvara: Cow.
Cardinal Danielou: ...a cow to give him to children who are hungry and the...
Prabhupāda: No, no, from any other consideration, cows' milk we drink. Therefore she's mother. Is it not?
Cardinal Danielou: If, if the men are hungry, it is the life of men is more important than the life of cow.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, because we are propagating this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we ask people to, not to eat meat, any kind.
Cardinal Danielou: Yes, yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: But if, under certain circumstances, you are obliged to eat meat, eat the flesh of some lower animals. Don't kill cows. It is the greatest sin. And so long one will be sinful, he'll not be able to understand what is God. But human being, main business is to understand God and to love Him. But if he remains sinful, neither he can understand God, and what to, what is the question of loving Him. Therefore at least from the human society, this cruel maintenance of slaughterhouses must be stopped.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhagavān: He should not be allowed to go hungry.
Prabhupāda: Even a snake is there, he should not also starve. He must have food. We do not support such rascal philosophy that you give food to the man, and send the animals to the slaughterhouse. We do not support this rascaldom, our philosophy is: as human being has got the right to take share of God's property and live, similarly all other living entities, they have got right.
Prabhupāda: No. Believe... There is no question of believe. Suppose you are hungry. I give you some food. I say: "You are hungry. Take this food." So when you take this food, you'll believe that: "Yes, my hunger is now satisfied. I'm getting strength." That is belief. So you are hungry, and if I give you some food, if you don't eat, then how you can believe that your hunger is now satisfied? You must eat. So we say: "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." So why not chant? Where is the loss? If there is any gain, let me take it. That is belief. If I say: "You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." so you have got tongue, you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you chant, you'll believe me, because the result will be there. There is no difficulty. But if you say: "No, I shall not chant," then, then you suffer. What can be done? Anyone can chant. The child chants. If you say: "I don't believe in it. I cannot chant it." So many words. And Hare Kṛṣṇa, two words. You take so much trouble. "I cannot chant. I don't believe in it." And Hare Kṛṣṇa, two words. So it is whose fault? I say: "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." If you say, "Hare Kṛṣṇa," immediately, the belief begins. And if you say: "No, no, I cannot chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. I don't believe in it." What can be done? That, that will be taken as misfortune. He's being requested to chant two words. Instead of two words, he'll repeat twenty words. But due to his misfortune, he'll not chant these two words. That is a misfortune.
Reporter (2): But people have got to be hungry to eat it.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes, hungry, everyone is hungry. Because in the Western countries, unless they are hungry for spiritual consciousness, why they are hippies? They are frustrated. They are not going to live like their fathers and forefathers.
Reporter (2): Frustrated?
Prabhupāda: Yes. This material civilization, ultimately it will be frustration because... Just like... Try to understand... You are a person. You are covered with this coat and shirt. If I simply take care of your coat and shirt, and if I do not give you something to eat, how long you'll be happy?
Reporter (2): Not very long.
Prabhupāda: That's right.
Prabhupāda: So they are rascals. And how you can become the Supreme? As soon as you have got a toothache, you have to go to the doctor. And he was thinking he was supreme, nonsense. Rascal. (break) ...bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa. These are Māyāvādīs, those who are after, "I am the Supreme." They are Māyāvādīs. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "Anyone who hears the philosophy of Māyāvāda, he is doomed. He is gone." (break) ...teaching, "Why you are seeking after God?" Just like Vivekananda taught, "Oh, why you are seeking after God? Don't you see so many gods are on the street? They are hungry. They are lame. They are daridra-nārāyaṇa. Why don't you worship them?" This is Māyāvādī. So if we take Vivekananda's version, and be engaged in the service of the daridra-nārāyaṇa, then I am misled. (break) ...preaching this daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā for hundreds of years, at least one hundred years, but still, there are daridras. Even in the city like Bombay, still. Fifty years ago, I came.
Prabhupāda: God does not expect. It is for your good. If you are simply taking from God, now if you learn how to give God, that is your perfection. That is your perfection. Why God will ask from you? He is all perfect. He does not want. He is not hungry. He is feeding millions of living entities. Eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. Why God will ask from you? But if you give your life to God, then you become perfect. God is not want of, in your service or anything... He is complete. If he is not complete, he is not God. These are all mental concoctions. What you can do? What you have got to give charity?
Guest 4 (Indian man): What is the position of man...
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: What posterity. You cannot take help from your machine. What posterity you will take? It is nonsense. You are starving, and you, you want to speak that "I will distribute prasādam." What is this nonsense? You are starving, and you are proud of distributing food to others. Is that very good reason, a reasonable proposal? What...? First of all, you stop your starvation. Then you can say, "Now I have stopped my starvation. I'll distribute food to the hungry men."
Siddha-svarūpānanda: All the scientists and leaders are all like that. They don't have the vaguest idea. They don't have the vaguest idea...
Prabhupāda: Therefore we...
Siddha-svarūpānanda: ...of anything.
Prabhupāda: ...call them rascals and fools. They may advertise themselves as scientists, but we take them as rascals and fools.
Prabhupāda: That is philosophy. Darśana. Darśana means search out what is the ultimate. Jñānī ca bharatarṣabha (BG 7.16). Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtino 'rjuna, ārto 'rthārthī jñānī ca bharatarṣabha, arto 'rthārthī jijñāsur jñānī ca bharatarṣabha. These are philosophers. Even the ārtaḥ, even a distressed person, he is praying to the Supreme Authority, "My God, I am very much hungry. Kindly give me my daily bread." He's also philosopher, because he's searching out the Absolute Truth. He's philosopher. Not this Freud rascal, elaborating how to have sex life. So this kind of philosopher, they... What is called? In Bengali: vane haye śṛgāla rājā.(?) "In the jungle a jackal becomes a king." So because western people, they have no... They're all less than śūdras. So a Freud has become a philosopher. Vane haye śṛgāla rājā. "In the jungle, the jackal has become a king." That's all. What is knowledge there? It is that... The whole western world is going on for industry, for making money, eat, drink, be merry, wine and women. That's... They're all less than śūdras and caṇḍālas. This is the first time attempt is being made to make them human beings. Don't mind. I am using very strong words. That is the fact.
Prabhupāda: Just like here in Vṛndāvana, I was here, as I am sitting here. I was sitting here in this very place. That was (indistinct). And when I was hungry I could take my food there, same place. So that is one thing. Just like there are many persons, but because my spiritual master wanted, so I, at seventy years old, when I thought, "Now I shall go," I went, to serve the order of my spiritual master. Otherwise I am sitting here in Vṛndāvana. I am old man, I was chanting. Therefore, because that is my first business.
Prabhupāda: In this way, gather public opinion, one point, that bhajana is not nuisance, essential, we want it, and the other thing, we are making gate in and out to get... Submit a plan like that, that this is... There will be no... That may be a small road, lane, but here is a big road. And purchase that land in front and make a gate. Call a good architects, make a nice gate and road. Take this proposition. Our business is there. If we invite people, "Come..." Even without temple, if it is go on like that, people may come and take prasādam, and they give their consent, "Yes, it is nice," that is sufficient. Even there is no temple. Then, if such way, public opinion's created, and the sanction is there, immediately there will be temple. It may take some time. It doesn't matter. So far satyagraha (?) is concerned, it will be useless. Hungry people, they are making satyagraha, and they are replied with fire, killing them. In Patna it has become so.
Prabhupāda: Rajasthan. So the government is so rogue that hungry men they have come and we are firing. And the... Your sva-rāja was obtained by nonviolence. This is the result. Actually, you cannot expect any justice from this government.
Guest: One has to snatch the justice from them.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Say you are hungry...
Dr. Shah: No, he's saying the same thing. He says without discrimination it is... (break) ...prasādam is...
Prabhupāda: Everyone is poor!
Dr. Patel: Everyone is poor before God...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: ...but those people who are hungry...
Prabhupāda: But why you dictate?
Dr. Shah: That's a different thing.
Prabhupāda: That is...
Dr. Patel: I don't dictate!
Prabhupāda: Yes. You say that it should be given to the poor man. You say like that. (break) The spiritual food should be distributed to everyone, without any discrimination.
Prabhupāda: And pratyakṣa avagamaṁ dharmyam. If you are jñānī, karmi, yogi, you cannot immediately directly perceive whether actually you have got the thing, but bhakti-yoga is like that. Bhakti-yoga, if you perform, you will perceive that "Yes, I am in this stage. I am in this stage." That has been described by Rūpa Gosvāmī. Just like when you are hungry and you are eating something, you can understand... (aside:) Don't come very near. You can understand that how much satisfaction you have got by eating. You haven't got to ask anybody, "Whether I am eating?" You can understand. The bhakti-yoga is so nice thing that if you execute it, you will understand your position. And it is su-sukham. To execute bhakti-yoga, there is no difficulty. It is always happy. Just like our program. Program is chant, dance, take prasādam. And if you take yoga system, jñāna system, first of all you have to become a very great learned scholar, and then yoga system, you have to practice so many āsanas, press your nose, and so many things. But here everything is very happy: chant, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, dance and then take prasādam, and you understand where you are. This is the su-sukham. And avyayam. Avyayam means whatever little bhakti-yoga you have advanced, that is permanent.
Prabhupāda: The question is how they lived? Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tuccha-vat bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna kan... Then gopī-bhāva-rasāmṛtādhi-laharī-kallola-magnau sadā: They were fully absorbed in the thought of how Kṛṣṇa, and His pastimes with His gopīs. He was always absorbed. Vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. This is exhibition. When one becomes ecstatic, "Oh, now I have to do something for Kṛṣṇa," then he renounces everything. Only Kṛṣṇa. Only Kṛṣṇa's business. That is the test. That is the test. What is the use of spiritual advancement? Spiritual advancement means these material things given up. That is spiritual advancement. That is... The example is given, bhaktiḥ pareṣānubhavoḥ viraktir anyatra syāt. As soon as one develops real bhakti, he will be averse to all these material things. That is the first sign. "No more these things." Bhaktiḥ pareṣānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt (SB 11.2.42). Just like if you are hungry and if you are given some food, if you are satisfied, then the same food will be denied by you.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Advanced in knowledge, who can teach other people nicely. And they can guide. There must be. That brāhmaṇa means spiritual guidance, kṣatriya means material guidance. So these things are necessity. But where are those brāhmaṇas and kṣatriyas? They are training everyone śūdra. Work hard like hogs and dogs and fill up your hungry belly. That's all. This is the modern civilization. (break) ...Kali-yuga's symptoms: dakṣyam udaraṁ bharitaḥ. One man is supposed to be very expert who has learned how to fill up his belly. That's all. No other knowledge is required. Whether you have sumptuously put foodstuff within your belly. And then it is... You are very expert person. (break) ...saṅkīrtanaiḥ prāyair yajanti hi sumedhasaḥ (SB 11.5.32). That is mentioned in the śāstra, that those who have got good brain, in this age they will perform this yajña. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtanaiḥ prāyair yajanti hi sumedhasaḥ. Sumedhasaḥ.
Prabhupāda: ...gṛha-medhinām. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2). Those who are gṛhamedhis and do not know anything else except maintaining the family, they are called gṛhamedhi. And those who cultivating spiritual consciousness in gṛhastha life with family and children, they are called gṛhasthas. That is the difference between gṛhamedhi and gṛhastha. So gṛhamedhi, they have no aim of life, of self-realization. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam (SB 2.1.2). That is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Nṛnāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ. (break) ...self-realization. Nṛnāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam (SB 2.1.2), who cannot see what is the ātma-tattvam, what is the path of self-realization. Gṛheṣu gṛhamedhinām. Therefore it is the duty of the sannyāsī... Sannyāsī does not mean that he will beg for fulfilling his hungry belly.
Prabhupāda: Then where is this nonsense? How he can say? Actually, Christians cannot eat any meat because the word is "Thou shalt not kill." (break)
Pañcadraviḍa: Christ Himself was distributing fish, to the hungry, to the poor. He gave out so much fish.
Prabhupāda: That was not killing fish. That is my support.
Pañcadraviḍa: We do not kill the fish either. We simply purchase it in the supermarket.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Directly, fish, as soon as taken from the water, he dies. And Christ... Then how can you support Christ that if he has done killing business himself and he instructs others not to kill?
Akṣayānanda: Does that mean you are calling Jesus Christ a hypocrite?
Prabhupāda: Hypocrite.
Prabhupāda: That's all. And tax you and get fat salary. That's all. This is government. They will degrade you and take your money and enjoy themselves. That's all. (break) ...revolution in India. Yes. Because people are hungry. There is no food. A very great revolution. So long they were under Vedic culture, they were suffering. Suffering in this way-tolerating. Now that culture is gone. Now they will be violent. Just like in other countries. If you pinch somebody on and on, there will be a violent protest. In the beginning you may tolerate. But if you go on pinching, pinching, pinching, how long you will tolerate? This is India's condition. Britishers, when they were ruling, had some responsibility. Although they were exploiting, but they were arranging for sufficient food and other things. But these people are irresponsib..., simply personal. "Whatever money I can get, that's all." This is going on. All these so-called ministers, they come to the post for taking money, as much as possible. (break) It must have been belonging to some Nawab, Nizam. It is aristocratic building, not ordinary building.
Prabhupāda: But there is no food. Never mind, you starve, but get your atom bomb. That's all. This is civilization. There was a cartoon. Somebody approached some politician, and he said, "Yes, I know there is food problem. So I cannot say what can I do for you, but from next week, you will have television." This is their program, "From next week you will have television." As if television will minimize my hunger. This is the civilization. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So you ask problem, I will answer. Your energy, problems of energy, petrol, it will be automatically solved. If we are localized, there is no question of petrol.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But you cannot do that. Why there are so many hungry people all over the world? What you have done? There are thousands and thousands. Even in big, big cities like New York, why there are so many people lying on the street? Why the hippies are lying on the street, on the park? So what is the value of your, this proposal? You cannot stop it.
Guru-gaurāṅga: "But when we go to India, on the other hand, you may see cows dying of hunger, just bare skeletons."
Prabhupāda: But there are so many human beings also dying out of hunger. Is it to be recommended that they should be killed? There are many human being also; they are also skeletons. They have no sufficient food. So if you think that the cows are skeletons for want of food, you supply them food. Why you are restricting? If... The Americans, they are throwing tons of food in the water. Why they do not send to India for feeding the skeleton cows? What the cows have done? They are also living entity. Why you are thinking of human beings, not of the cows?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ (SB 5.18.12). As soon as you become a unalloyed devotee of God, all the good qualities will manifest in you. If the good qualities does not manifest in you, that means you are not yet perfect in God consciousness. Just like you European boys, American boys, why you have given... (break) ...one of the item is that good quality that "Why shall I give trouble, pain, to other animals?" This is within the God consciousness. Just like poor-feeding. This program we also follow. In our temple, especially in India, any man can come and take his food. Yes. We have got arrangement. In the U.S.A also, Los Angeles, New York, we invite anyone, "Come and take food." We don't want to see that anyone is hungry. We don't want to see. So God consciousness means all the good ideas we are manufacturing, they will be manifested in God consciousness automatically. Therefore our duty should be, if we want to make all human being well-behaved, then we must try to make every one of them God conscious.
Prabhupāda: So animals, cows, as soon as they take some opportunity, they push their head and take something. Get away. Now, the animal, the cow is passing, and a human being is also passing. But the human being, although he's hungry, he likes to take some of the preparation, but he'll not do like that animal. He knows that "I have no money. So I shall have to restrain my tongue." That is human being. The animal pushes the head. So anyone who cannot carry the regulative principles is animal. The law is for human being. "Keep to the left, keep to the right" for... This is not for the dogs. Dogs can keep to the right, keep to the left, anywhere. But he's not criminal. Because he's animal. But if a man, instead of keeping to the right, he goes to the left, immediately, he's criminal. Therefore human society means to abide first-class law. That is human being. The laws must be made for advancement of spiritual life. That is human society. Because animal life, it doesn't require any law. How to eat, it doesn't require any law. Everyone knows. Man knows, animal knows. How to have sex life, it is not to be educated. Everyone knows. But they are philosophizing on sex life. Freud.
Bhagavān: You were telling us one time that in India, if a person has a mango orchard, you can come in if you're hungry and eat, but you cannot take any with you.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Still, if you have got a garden, somebody says, "I want to eat some fruits." "Yes, come on. Take as much fruit as you like." But you cannot take it away. Any number of men can come and eat. They even do not prohibit the monkeys. "All right, let him come in. It is God's property." That is the system. That is mentioned in Bhāgavata. If the animals like monkeys, they come to your garden to eat, don't prohibit. Let him. He's also Kṛṣṇa's part and parcel. Where he will eat if you prohibit? It is very practical. I have got another. This is told by my father. My father's elder brother was keeping a cloth shop. My father also was keeping a cloth shop. So it is in the village.
Prabhupāda: Basin, basin. So one basin full rice he will keep in the middle of the shop. And there are rats. So the rats will take the rice, and not cut even a single cloth. It is practical. Yes. They are also animals. Give them food. They'll not create any disturbance. Give them food. Yes. Because cloth are very costly. And there are rats. If one cloth is cut by the rat, then it is great loss. So to save from this loss, he'll put in a basin... Rice was nothing. Rice... In our childhood, we have seen, two ānās per seer. That is with profit. You see. So one basin full rice, it doesn't cost even one ānā. So by giving one ānā worth food, he saves so many, hundreds of rupees cloth. Otherwise, if they're hungry, they'll cut it. Everyone has got obligation.
Jyotirmayī: He says again that in India, now also there's a big struggle because they are trying to solve the immediate problems of hunger, you know, all these problems, now, and, of course, there is a religious people on the side of those who are struggling, but there's also religious people on the other side, of those who want to keep the situation as it is now... And then he said that...
Prabhupāda: Religious people wants to keep the situation? Starving? Starving situation? (French for some time)
Prabhupāda: No, after catching them from the forest, they kept within the bars, and no eating for at least one week. Then the trainer comes. Only whips. He comes, and open the doors and only: (makes sound) Flosh, flosh, flosh. So already he's hungry, weak, and he's whipped. In this way, he becomes fearful. As soon as the man comes, he becomes fearful. Then he gives him little food. In this way, after all it is animal, he thinks that "This man is my God. He can save me. He can kill me." Then he takes to him. Whatever he says, he takes. Similarly, if you do not give the ingredients for sense enjoyment, the mind will be controlled. That is the beginning. You simply... Don't give... The mind wants, "Now let me go to the restaurant." "No, sir." Beat him with shoes. Instead of going to the restaurant, he beats the mind with shoes.
Prabhupāda: ...human being. It is not meant for the beast. God has given different food for different person, different. You will find even food grains, rice-first quality rice, second quality rice. Why nature has produced? Because there are persons who cannot eat third quality rice. So God has given: "Oh, here is first-class quality." They will eat little. And in India there are classes, they will eat so much. So for them that red rice is good. They do not like this fine basmati. I have got practical experience. Sometime we used to give even the servants the same rice. So this man came. He complained, "Bahu." "Bahu" means master. "This rice is not suitable for us." That fine basmati rice. He did not like it. Then the next day that red, big, big. Have seen that? Japanese rice or some, Burmese rice. It is reddish and big and little hard, and he likes: "Very nice." So there are classes of men, classes of animals. I have got practical experience of all this. The big animals... (break) ...living entities. That He is providing everyone. Nobody is hungry. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying stealing is relative. Some people steal because they watch television, some people steal because they're hungry or they need things...
Prabhupāda: Well, in the eyes of the law, when you go to the court, if somebody has stolen some diamond and if somebody has stolen some insignificant thing, in the court the six month prison is there. The man who has stolen an insignificant thing, the judge does not make any concession for him. "You have stolen, you must go to the jail." And the man who has stolen the diamond, he also takes the same term. So stealing is stealing. Either you steal diamond or a little fruit, it doesn't matter. The punishment is the same for the diamond-stealer and anything-insignificant-stealer. That is the law.
Prabhupāda: Instead of food you'll get television. (laughing) Advanced. This is going on. "I am hungry, sir. What shall I do with television?" That is the real answer. Say "I'm hungry. What shall I do with the television?" But he's pacifying, "Don't worry, you'll get television." This is science.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cheaters.
Prabhupāda: This is science. People, for want of sufficient nourishment, they are becoming dwarf and they are discovering scientific method.
Brahmānanda: Intoxication... By increasing the intoxication the desire for food reduces. You eat less.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore they are very much dizzy. And little hunger satisfied with meat. That's all. That is going on in the western country. The drinking... I have seen in airplane, bottles after bottle, they are drinking.
Guest: Except the serpent. They eat their children. There are too many of them so they eat at least half or three-fourths, don't allow the serpent population to grow. Because after the child must be hungry, and she must...
Prabhupāda: Still, those who live, they depend on mother.
Guest: Actual, the serpent because serpent government, he says.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Serpent mother also, Kali-yuga. (break) ...they are keeping, but it is not possible to give them food by purchasing. They are taking food from the street. Similarly, the poor man keep a cow. It is not possible to purchase food for the cows. So maintain in this way, so, by natural food. And in Germany I have seen. They are not given extra food. They are living by pasturing ground. That should be arranged. They should get food from the ground, not that we have to purchase food for them. Then you cannot maintain.
Prabhupāda: There is no law; it is all lusty desire. All law or no law, these are all nonsense. The śāstra has... It is lusty desire, that's all. Everyone wants to fulfill a lusty desires. So unless one is not in the modes of goodness or transcendental, everyone will like. That is the material world, rajas-tamaḥ. Rajas-tamo-bhāvaḥ kāma-lobhadayaś ca ye (SB 1.2.19). It is all discussed in the śāstra. Just like I am hungry man. There is foodstuff. I want to eat it. So if I take by force, that is illegal, and if I pay for it, then it is legal. But I am the hungry man, I want it. This is going on. Everyone is lusty. Therefore they say "legalized prostitution." They want it. So marriage is something legalized, that's all. The passion and the desire is the same, either married or not married. So this Vedic law says, "Better married. Then you will be controlled." Married life... So he will not be so lusty as without married life. So the gṛhastha life is a concession-same lusty desire under rules and regulation. That's all. That is our higher... (?) Without married life he will commit rapes in so many ways, so better let him be satisfied with one, both the man and woman, and make progress in spiritual life. That is concession. Everyone in this material world has come with these lusty desires and greediness. Even demigods like Lord Śiva, Lord Brahmā... The Lord Brahmā became lusty after his daughter. And Lord Śiva became so mad after Mohinī-murti. So what to speak of us insignificant creatures. So lusty desire is there. That is material world. Unless one is fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, this lusty desire cannot be checked. It is not possible.
Prabhupāda: Indian society, the did not know how to drink tea even. In our childhood we have seen that Britishers started tea garden. There was no tea plants before Britishers. The Britishers saw the labor is very cheap, and they want to do business, they started. Just like they are doing in Africa. So many gardens, coffee and tea. So they started, and the tea was transferred to be sold in America. They were after business. So the... Now, so much tea, who will consume? The government started a tea sets committee. All the tea garden holders they would pay government. And road to road, street to street, their business was canvassing, preparing tea, very nice, palatable tea, and they advertising if you drink tea, then you will not feel very much hungry, and your malaria will go away and so on, so on. And people began to drink tea. Nice cup. I have seen it. Now they have got a taste. Now gradually now a sweeper also, early in the morning, is waiting in the tea shop to get a cup of tea.
Prabhupāda: No, ourself or anyone, a thief is to be punished. A thief has to be punished. Ourself or yourself, it doesn't matter. A thief is thief. He should be punished.
Director: What if he breaks in because he is hungry?
Prabhupāda: Who breaks?
Madhudviṣa: He says what if he breaks in because he's hungry?
Prabhupāda: We say everyone come and eat. Why he should remain hungry? We invite everyone, come here, eat, no charge. We don't charge. Why he should remain hungry? Let us increase this program. All hungry men of Melbourne city, come here, you take your eating sumptuously. We invite, "Come on." Why you should remain hungry?
Director: What if he's an alcoholic and he's hungry?
Devotee: We have a couple of alcoholics that come here, and we give them food every night.
Director: You do?
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: They were satisfied, "Yes, we shall worship you." (break)
Siddha-svarūpa: The so-called more advanced ones, the teachers, the leaders, the monks, they have a more difficult time because they are, have actually further studied the impersonalist philosophies, so they are more contaminated, whereas the congregation in general, they just, they don't take very seriously the philosophy. They don't get too deeply into it, I don't think. They just like to go to the temple and offer some incense to Lord Buddha and... (break) ...Govinda Restaurant, hungry... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...chanting, dancing. So this will rectify his philosophy. Chanting is so strong, it will send all philosophy to hell. (laughter) Vijāyate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. (break) You will come out triumphant of all others. (break) ...that is happening. What we are doing? We are not playing any magic. How this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is increasing?
Devotee: Yesterday I read in the newspaper that Indira Gandhi has been asked to step down from the prime ministership.
Prabhupāda: I heard it.
Prabhupāda: Yes, in sattva-guṇa one can see, one can understand his position. (break)
Devotee (2): Does he experience the miseries of the gross body when he's in sattva-guṇa, in the mode of goodness? Does he experience hunger and thirst, those things like that?
Prabhupāda: Gross body means no hunger?
Devotee (2): When a person's in sattva-guṇa, he's not so much feeling the pain...
Prabhupāda: He is not disturbed by the rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. That is sattva-guṇa. Naṣṭa-prayeṣv abhadreṣu (SB 1.2.18). He can be disturbed by rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, but when he is in sattva-guṇa, he is not so much disturbed. And if he increase and go to the pure sattva-guṇa, suddha-sattva, then he is no more disturbed. At that time he can understand what is God. (break) ...you are strongly situated in sattva-guṇa, the other base qualities cannot disturb you. Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye (SB 1.2.19). Other guṇa means lusty desires and greediness. This thing will be finished when you are strongly situated in sattva-guṇa. Then you go advance more and more. (break) ...hear about Kṛṣṇa, to chant about Kṛṣṇa, means cleansing, cleansing the dirty things of rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. (break) ...world is going on on rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. Very minute quantity of population are by sattva-guṇa.
Prabhupāda: My first step will be to capture all the hoarders and distribute the grains free. Immediately public will be obliged to... There are immense food grains; they are simply hoarded. They are not selling without good price. This is going on. Immediately she can capture the public. And some of the hoarders should be hanged, yes, so that in future nobody will hoard. People are hungry. And she says she has got some program, garivi hatta(?), "Drive away the poverty." This is the point. If she can supply all consumer goods for the time being free to the poor, then immediately the whole population will be after her. And the hoarders should be exemplary punished. Shoot them, that's all. Then nobody will hoard. But to remain the dictator she requires spiritual knowledge. Otherwise it will be another disaster. If she wants to remain the dictator, then she must be a spiritual man. She must become a Vaiṣṇavī.
Prabhupāda: The thing is that any system you take, without God consciousness it is zero. Just like hundreds and thousands of zeros, if you put together, the value is zero. But if you put one, the value increases immediately. That one is God. So either in politics or in sociology or philosophy, religion, everywhere, if there is no God sense, it is all zero. That is going on. Therefore, despite all advancement of education, economic development, people are in chaotic condition, they are not satisfied, and everything is being tried to make it very nice. The United Nation is there, working for the last thirty years, but there is no solution because it is all zero without God. Bring God and everything will be nice. Take any question, just like economic question. There is now very acute, especially in our country. Now, the God says that "Your economic problem will be solved like this." What is that? Annād bhavanti bhūtāni: (BG 3.14) "You produce sufficient quantity of food grains." Annād bhavanti bhūtāni: "Then both the animals and man will sufficiently eat, and they will be satisfied." What is the wrong there? You must have sufficient food. Then annād bhavanti bhūtāni. And anna, producing anna, you require cloud in the sky. And that is produced by yajña. So one after another. So people must be satisfied first of all by eating sumptuously. So instead of producing food grains, you are very much busy for producing motor tires. So motor tire will not make the hungry people satisfied. So everything is there, practical, whatever is advised in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Śraddhāvān, That is required. If he has no faith, then he remains in darkness.
Devotee (6): If we save the common people by giving them prasādam, how can we save the impersonalists?
Prabhupāda: That will come later on. (break) ...ists will not come. They will never come because they do not believe in the personal feature of God. Unless very hungry, he will not come because he does not believe in prasāda, does not believe in God.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) Twenty-four hours. Similarly, twenty-four hours, free prasādam: "Come on." But they are not hungry.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not for that. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...trunk as fat as this is, very long, where I saw it? Maybe... Mexico, I think. (break)
Rāmeśvara: ...trees that are so fat that you can drive your car through it. They have made an opening...
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Rāmeśvara: And you can drive your car through it.
Jayatīrtha: Redwood tree. Those are the trees that are so old, sometimes five thousand years old.
Prabhupāda: Taravaḥ kiṁ na jīvanti (SB 2.3.18) . Bhāgavata says that "You are trying to prolong your life. Don't you know that trees live more and more years than yourself?" Taravaḥ kiṁ na jīvanti. So what is the use of such living? A tree standing for five thousand years, what is the use of such living? Therefore, those who are trying to live for many years, they are being instructed, taravaḥ kiṁ na jīvanti (SB 2.3.18) . They are also living being. And what is the use of living? First of all, that... For the same purpose, eating, sleeping, mating, and living for five thousand years, ten thousand years, what is the use? Taravaḥ kiṁ na jīvanti, bhastrāḥ kiṁ na śvasanty uta. (break) This park is very nice. (break) ... śunīcena. We are all trampling. There is no protest.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Do you know this? (break) ...go somewhere, better go, at least four men; and when you read some knowledge, at least two men; but when you eat, one man. Don't bring four men and two men. Then he will be hungry; you will be hungry. (laughter) So for advancement of knowledge, two men at least required, discussion—not that I am reading and sleeping also.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And advertise, "If you drink tea, then you will not feel very much hungry. Your health will be improved," and so on, so on. In this way they distribute pamphlet and giving free. Just like we distribute prasādam, they used to distribute very tasteful tea, and people liked it: "Oh, it is very nice." Then they began to drink. Vigorous propaganda. And culturally, in our school days they wrote… One Mr. N. Ghosh, he, bribed by the Britishers, he wrote one book, England's Work in India. So all the, just like Sati rites…
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sati rite.
Devotee (1): They lack central happiness?
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no happiness. (pause) Nobody can remain lazy, because he will be hungry. So how he will remain lazy? He'll have to go somewhere, begging food, and he'll say, "First of all work. Then get your food." He'll work. So there is no question of remaining lazy. Just like the hippies. They do not work, but when they do not get food from anywhere, they go and work. Is it not? So he will be obliged to work.
Prabhupāda: That is real education. We want that you learn from Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, you learn from Vyāsadeva, you learn from Nārada. But why you are learning from Freud, from Darwin and such rascals? Education means you should learn from a person who is authorized, who is without mistake, without illusion, who does not cheat, just like we are learning from Kṛṣṇa. That is education. And if you learn from rascals and fools, then what is that education? Education means to learn from the learned person. But if you are learning from a rascal and fool, then what is your education? Education required, but we require what is actually education, which is not cheating. But we are being educated, being cheated. We are working for this body, which I am not. Is that education or it is cheating? If you say, "I am taking my interest," I'll say "I am taking water; I wash daily my shirt and coat." And that, is that knowledge? And what about you? Your food? "I don't care for that. I wash my coat and shirt daily." Is that education? You keep yourself starving and you keep your coat and shirt very cleanse. Is that education? This is going on. Therefore people are restless. He is hungry. What he will do, his cars and this shirt and coat and big building? Why they are committing suicide? Because he is not happy. There is no food for the spirit soul, what he is actually. Is that education? That is not education. So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura is right when he says, jība ke karaye gādhā: "This material education means making people more and more asses." That's all. He is already ass because he's in this material world, and the so-called material education means keeping him in that condition more and more.
Prabhupāda: Because you have this material body, you have got so many necessities and God has no material body. He has got spiritual body. He has no necessity. Apta kama. He is fully satisfied. He doesn't require to take anything.
Brahmānanda: He doesn't get hungry or thirsty.
Prabhupāda: Neither. Neither of these things because He hasn't got material body. You have got this material body; therefore you have got all these defects.
Prabhupāda: This is the ideal of life, to become sa-nātha-jīvitam, living with hope that "I have got my master who will give me protection." That is ideal life. Others, they are living independently-anātha, no master. Just like a child without having father and mother is called anātha. So-called independence means anātha. Anātha. What is the independence? At any time nature's law will come and kick it out. (break) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Eh? Brahmānanda was speaking that "We are feeling anātha before coming here?" Yes. "And now we are feeling sa-nātha." That's a fact. This godless life is anātha. Foolishly they want to remain anātha. They do not like to be sa-nātha. And anātha means the street dog—nobody to take, always barking, always hungry, always disturbed. Somebody is throwing stone. This is their... I went to your country in 1965. I went there as anātha, but I was confident that "Now I am not anātha; I am sa-nātha." (break) ...was interested in my mission, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, no. In this country I wanted to start it. Nobody came forward to help me.
Prabhupāda: The Communists may say, but we don't say. They are hungry people, they may say. We are not hungry. Our food is supplied by Kṛṣṇa. Yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22). He brings food. So why should the Communists? So we shall go further or return? Hm?
Haṁsadūta: Which way?
Devotee (2): Do you want to go further, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: I can go. What is time?
Harikeśa: Almost seven. (break)
Prabhupāda: (break) ...road?
Devotee (2): This is Curzon Road.
Prabhupāda: Curzon Road. (break) ...religion, we say "cheating religion." We don't accept sentimentally.
Harikeśa: Well, the sentiment is the faith. The dictionary definition, sentimentalism is the faith.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Faith is good, provided you have faith on the superior. That is good.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Those places are good places for preaching.
Jayapatāka: I went there when I bought the boat. People there are so hungry, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Angry?
Jayapatāka: Hungry. Hungry. They're very.... I was eating a banana, I threw the peel on the ground and a boy picked up and ate the peel. I saw. They are so hungry. If we went there and distributed prasādam, so many people would be...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: The social system in India, that a boy, say, twenty, twenty-five years, and a girl, twelve to sixteen years, must be married. Must be married. And before marriage the girl should not see any boy, and the boy should not see any woman. Then the life is all right. Even in U.P. still, the system is that before marriage the boy should not see. The marriage takes place. Nowadays it has been practiced that boy goes to see the girl, but formerly it was not. She (he) should not see. She (he) should see the girl when the marriage actually takes place, not before that. The psychology is that when they require a man or a girl, so whatever she is or he is, they accept and they remain chaste, so there is no separation. This is the psychology. Whenever you are hungry, whatever nonsense foodstuff is offered to you, it is palatable. Is it not? Because, after all, it is the appetite which eats, not the foodstuff. Foodstuff may be very, very nicely prepared, but if you have no appetite, it is finished. You know the history of Ramakrishna? Did I say? Yes. So he had no appetite, and he very tactfully said, "Oh, you are not my wife. You are my mother." And he became Bhagavān.
Prabhupāda: No. Work more and work less doesn't matter. If he's actually hungry, he can take. Work must be there. If he does not work, what is the use of eating?
Jayapatākā: This program...
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Jayapatākā: The difficulty that every person has not got the same mentality... One...
Prabhupāda: That... That will depend on the preaching of the sannyāsīs. What is this? Frame?
Indian man (1): It's a hot iron building, Prabhupāda.
Hari-śauri: It's the wrong type of renunciation.
Prabhupāda: There is no renunciation. There is sense gratification. "I like this." That's all. He is thinking that "I am so renounced," but he's still satisfying his senses. That's all. As soon as we manufacture something, that is sense gratification. "I want to fulfill my desire. That's all." That is sense gratification. It may be I sit down on the tree, or I may sit down on the palace. That is sense... The basic principle is sense gratification. The other day I was talking about hīrā-cora and kṣīrā-cora. Hīrā means diamond.
Prabhupāda: ...how to respect food grain. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Everyone should understand, "This food grain is supplied by Kṛṣṇa for our living. How can I disrespect?" This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore we say, prasāda-sevā, not "prasāda eating." Prasāda-sevā. Prasāda should be accepted as Kṛṣṇa. And our eating means to serve Kṛṣṇa. "Kṛṣṇa has given. Eat them. Yes. That's all."
kṛṣṇa baḍa dayāmaya, karibāre jihvā jaya
- sva-prasāda-anna dila bhāi
sei prasāda-annāmṛta khāo, rādhā-kṛṣṇa-guṇa gāo
And at the same time also chant, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is so kind. We are hungry, we are so greedy, and He has given so nice prasādam." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: No, that's all right. I mean to say, if we make a procession, then first of all... That is my suggestion. Make the devotees first, chanting, all the devotees. And then the Deity, carrying. And then my carriage, my car, and then all the buses. So devotees who become tired, they can sit down in the bus and again go on. And keep one big pot of halavā so that others may be distributed, and the devotees, when they are hungry, they can also eat. In this way make. How do you like this arrangement?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We'll do it.
Prabhupāda: "Might be something," that is your sinful activities. That "something" is some sinful activity.
Reporter (1): Now a poor man suffers of hunger. This is not sin if he doesn't get proper food or anything.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. But how you can help? You cannot help. Just like a prisoner in the, suffering in the prison house, you cannot help him.
Reporter (1): I may suffer because I have cancer...
Prabhupāda: No, first of all you try to understand.
Reporter (1): But cancer is not a sin, you know.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is sin. Disease means sin. Unless you commit sinful life, there is no question of suffering.
Prabhupāda: It is not the question of religion or faith. It is the necessity. This already I have said, that you are hungry, and you require some food. It is not a way of thinking, that "I am hungry. I require..." It is the urge. You are hungry, and you require to eat. Similarly, people are making so many arrangements to become happy. So this is also another way, but this is the right way.
Prabhupāda: Therefore America has so much over-production. Let the hungry men come here. Greediness is not allowed. Whatever... Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). This is śāstra. Everything belongs to God. Whatever He allots to you, you take it. In the family the father says, "My dear boy, take of this." That's all. Why should he claim more? The father knows how much he'll eat, and He'll give it. He's supplying the elephant his food, the ant his food. Elephant's not dying starvation. Why you are worried? You want to eat forty kilos. All right. Take it. The father is able to supply. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. He's supplying everyone.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Necessity means there is. Otherwise why necessity? When you feel hungry, the necessity of food, food is there. The necessity of light, the sun is there.
Devotee (4): Do you mean, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in order to conceive of something, a thing must be there?
Prabhupāda: There is no "conceive." Necessity. You require it. Just like when you're hungry you require food. Food is there. The eyes want to see; therefore the object of seeing is there. The hand wants to touch, so the object of touching is there. The nose wants to smell: the object of smell is there. So as soon as you feel necessity, the thing is there.
Prabhupāda: So.... (break) ...that is mistake, then you are rascal, that's all. Mistake is committed by rascal. So you are rascal. If you commit mistake then you are rascal. Then don't talk, stop talking. (everyone laughs) Who is going to hear a rascal? (indistinct) (break) ...he is hungry, there is no necessity of food? Who's that rascal that says "No, there is no necessity of food"? He's feeling hungry, he wants to eat something, and if he says "No, there is no necessity of food," then is he not rascal? And if you say "Now we are feeling the necessity of food, but that is my mistake," is that answer?
Devotee (1): They're feeling that some people have the necessity for God, but actually...
Prabhupāda: Why? That is the question. Why some people have? That means some people intelligent, some people rascals. That's all. This is wrong.
Prabhupāda: Now discuss on this point amongst yourselves whether it is rightly said or wrong. If anyone has any objection. Yes?
Dr. Wolfe: Prabhupāda, I remember in Atlanta last year when an Indian Ph.D. came to see you and was sitting at your lotus feet, and he spoke about the problems in India, overpopulation and hunger, and then he said to you, "Swamiji, you must always realize the realities." And you said to him, "You don't know the reality." And he did not answer one word. He is now always coming to the temple, although he is working with the monkeys on behavior study. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: So anyone has any objection to this statement?
Nalinīkaṇṭha: I was thinking that Kṛṣṇa also says that aghāyur indriyārāmo moghaṁ pārtha sa jīvati. This is useless, spending your time in sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: Find out this verse, aghāyur indriyārāmo.
Prabhupāda: Germany is little recouped, but England is finished. Therefore I say India got independence not due to Gandhi. It is due to Hitler. That is my opinion. I have got reason. The Hitler fighting with England made them smashed, so their political power became nil almost, and on this opportunity, Hitler helped Subash Chandra Bose, one of the leaders of India, to organize Indian National Army. This Indian National Army, when attacked, at least made a show of attack from Imphala(?), especially on Calcutta dropped bombs, and the whole Calcutta became vacant. Perhaps myself and a few others remained. I sent my sons.... Of course, daughter was married, but they sent to Navadvīpa, Śrīdhara Mahārāja's āśrama. My wife refused to go out of Calcutta. She said, "I'll be bombed maybe, but I'll not go out." (laughs) So I had to remain in Calcutta. So I've seen bombing and Calcutta all vacant. And one day I was eating in the evening, at night—immediately bombing. Kachori... I was hungry, (laughs) but the eating finished.
Prabhupāda: That assistance means to.... First of all, a man is...
Scheverman: Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the homeless.
Prabhupāda: A man is poor when he's in ignorance.
Scheverman: So you see that as a greater poverty, is the ignorance, rather than the physical poverty of not having enough food.
Prabhupāda: So food problem can be solved simply by accepting.... That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Find out. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). How everyone can.... Find out.
Prabhupāda: Yes, and there will be no starvation.
Scheverman: It's an intellectual approach. I think our approach would be, we would be concerned with a person-to-person assistance. That is the way, our way, that Jesus has taught us. He said, "Feed the hungry and harbor the harborless and visit the imprisoned."
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you have got enough food grains.... Just like in our headquarter in Bengal, we are giving food daily, at least one thousand men.
Scheverman: So you are feeding the hungry at your headquarters in (sic:) London. You do utilize then the direct approach as well.
Prabhupāda: No, our process is that everyone who is hungry, come and take your food. But our program is going on, but feeding the poor is automatically there. If anyone comes to our temple, even here, anyone comes and take prasāda.
Prabhupāda: Uttamam. Pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyam. You can directly understand whether you are going forward. These boys, they are educated, they are coming from rich family—at least, in rich nation. They are not fools and rascals. Unless they feel pratyakṣa avagamam, how they can stick? Just like you are hungry, you are eating. Unless you feel that you are eating, "Yes, I am getting strength, satisfying my appetite," then you can go on eating. It is like that. Pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyam. You don't require to get certificate from others, that "I am eating. Whether I am satisfied?" You will feel. You don't require to take certificate from others. If you are actually eating, the result you will feel.
Prabhupāda: Government will like when the jackal takes your animal. They will eat it, they will not attack somebody else, because if they are not hungry, they don't attack. Even tiger or any ferocious animal, if they are satisfied in hunger, they don't attack. In the jungle, tiger and other animals, they live together. When they are hungry, they attack. So at least you can advertise that here is a cow, available free. Take it, those who are meat-eaters. Take free without any price.
Prabhupāda: That's it. Then they'll say plainly that "I'm hungry; give some food. Then I'll not talk nonsense. Give me some food." That's all. Take it. Tell the truth.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: If they talk these things, they can get money from the government, millions of dollars.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. So instead of talking all nonsense, tell freely that "I am hungry, give me some food."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually, that's what happens in principle.
Prabhupāda: They have finished all their talks. So far as I know, these so-called scientists, they have finished their business. Now they have no other means than to bluff. To get their salary.
Prabhupāda: So I shall feel hungry also?
Bhagavān: Hungry? No, you ate good there last year. You ate very well there last year.
Prabhupāda: No, I like it. It is very nice place.
Pṛthu-putra: The air is good too.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Pṛthu-putra: The air, the atmosphere, is good.
Bhagavān: I don't know. I was thinking the trip.... We have that big Mercedes limousine. You rode in it last year. It was very comfortable, and the ride, I don't think you found it so difficult, did you? Last year.
Prabhupāda: No.
Prabhupāda: As they follow the principles, they realize that "Yes, I am advancing," Otherwise, why they should stick? They are also educated, they are young men, and they are coming from respectable family. They are not dull-headed dogs. So why they are sticking to this principle unless they feel, "Yes, I am making progress"? Just like you are hungry, and if you are given some foodstuff, you eat the.... With every morsel of food you feel, "Yes, my hunger is satisfied. I am feeling strength, I must go on till I am fully satisfied." It is like that. It doesn't require certificate from others. He'll feel himself, "Yes."
Prabhupāda: It belongs to God. This is accepted. And God... And everyone is God's son. Therefore as the son can enjoy the father's property, they can enjoy. But they cannot claim proprietorship. As directed by the father, one can enjoy the father's property, but he cannot claim that it is his property. This is the correct position. And the king is supposed to be representative of God to see that things are rightly going on, that's all. Nobody's unnecessarily claiming proprietorship. He should remind that "It is God's property. You can utilize it as far as you need; you don't take more. Whatever you need you take, but you cannot take more." Like the birds and beasts they are living. They do not make stock. They need to eat something, they'll eat some fruit, then they go away. When they are hungry they will go another tree. They never claim that "This is my tree, this is my fruit." This is natural. If you put a bag of rice here, the birds will come, they will eat some grains and go away. But a man, he'll go and try to stock something, and he will take more.
Prabhupāda: No, even they kill, they are killing, but killing facility will be there if there is chicken. Just like a tiger in the jungle. They are very expert, but they do not get food daily. Because the other animals, they also know, that part of the jungle there is tiger. They avoid going there. So he doesn't get daily food. He kills one animal and keeps it hidden and takes little, little. He cannot... They are always hungry, although they have got good strength, but where is the opportunity? And there is one small animal, he's called feow.(?) As soon as the tiger gets out to find out some prey, this small animal warns, "feow." The other animals will understand the tiger is coming. So despite getting good strength, good jaws, good nails, there is no food. He's dependent. If God supplies him, then he'll get opportunity. Otherwise, these nails and jaws and strength are useless.
Gargamuni: And then take out.
Prabhupāda: Yes, then do that. And we are inviting everyone. We have no distinction. Anyone can come to the park. Convince them. (continued on another tape) "Come on! Take prasādam "sumptuously." They'll be satisfied. They are hungry. Actually they are hungry, poorly paid, capitalist and worker. The trouble is, capitalists, they are taking all the profit, and they are enjoying life in wine and women. Naturally the worker will see that "Why? We are working so hard, and they are making profit, and they are enjoying, and we do not live in a very nice house. It is a slum." Naturally they will be envious. If the capitalists spend the money for Kṛṣṇa consciousness—in each and every factory they hold festivals and give them eatables like anything everything will be successful.
Prabhupāda: Thunderbolt.
Jayapatākā: Thunderbolt. And the policemen said that never—even the chief minister came here once—not even half so many people came, and that was announced for one week. This was announced for one day and more people came than ever before. He said, "This really shows me that the people are hungry for spiritual answer. They have no one to lead them."
Gargamuni: And these leaders are simply envious, that's all. The only reason why they're not helping us is because they're envious. Because so many people are interested and no one is interested in them.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, our Gītār Gān is selling.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) We shall break after twelve, later prasāda.
Krishna Modi: If Gurudeva is hungry . How I can take?
Prabhupāda: No, you can take. You can take.
Krishna Modi: You give something so that...
Prabhupāda: No. You give the whole thing to him.
Prabhupāda: Who is caring for agriculture? They are preparing Goodyear tire. Now eat tires. You rascal, eat tires. How long you'll eat tires? If there is no customer for tire, that means... So that is coming. And I went to Detroit about six months ago. There're factories. They have manufactured the wheels, huge stock. That means they are not selling. And the Goodyear Tire, they advertising, "So many millions tires we are manufacturing." You have been in Detroit? Yes. They're proud that "We have manufactured so many tires, so many wheels." The time will come when there will be no purchaser for tires and wheels, and they'll starve. That is coming. What they will do? If they become hungry there is no food grain. For some time they will eat, killing the cows, and then there will be no food, and what these tire and wheels will do? But there is no first-class brain that "We are wasting time by manufacturing tires and wheels. Without wheels we could live, but how we shall live without food grain?" There is no brain, no first-class men, no second-class men, no third-class men.
Prabhupāda: This is also mānava-sevā. We are giving this knowledge to the human society. Is it not sevā? They are remaining in darkness of their position and we are giving them this knowledge. This is not sevā?
Vāsughoṣa: But what about the poor, hungry, and the suffering bodies?
Prabhupāda: Yes, poor, hungry, come. We can give you food. We are giving, already. Show the pictures. You have not seen the pictures of Māyāpur, how two thousand, three thousand people we are giving. That is included. Bhāgavata-sevā includes that. You do not require to do it separately. It is already there. Just like if you pour water on the root, the watering the leaf is included. But if you water the leaf, then that tree will dry. And that is not complete. But if you pour water on the root of the tree, it is complete. Why don't you give this reason? This is natural. If you give food to the stomach, the service of the other parts of the body is included. But if you give food to the eyes, it is spoiled only. The food is spoiled, the eyes are spoiled, and nobody is satisfied. Why don't you give this reason?
Vāsughoṣa: So in that way, because they are not feeding the stomach, they are actually starving.
Prabhupāda: There are so many problems in the human society how you can take care? But the real problem is—that is for everyone—janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. Either he is animal or human being or demigod or big man or small man or rich man or poor man, a learned man, foolish man, these problems are there, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. So if you take care of these problems, how to save them, all of them, from these four problems, that is real service. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). Otherwise temporary—"I am hungry. You give me some relief"—but that relief is temporary. I'll become again hungry. And if I come to you twice, thrice, you'll be disgusted. Neither you can. There are so many hungry men. But if with a view to solve his all problems of life, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi, if you take care of him, that is the best service.
Prabhupāda: Ekādaśī.
Mr. Malhotra: We didn't know about ekādaśī. When we came to Mahabaleswar, we opened. They said "No, we can't eat because it is ekādaśī." So we said that "No you won't eat, so it looks odd that we should eat." But we were very hungry, you know. In the morning we didn't take anything. We said "All right, we eat, now we will go to the bazaar and see if we could get something." Then we went to Mahabaleswar, it was all closed, because it was raining season. And then there was one shop which had bananas, good amount of bananas. So we took one dozen or two dozen bananas, and then...
Prabhupāda: Banana is very good. You can make banana and potato. Potato boil and mixed with banana, and make nice puri.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and they will understand.
Guest (1): That should be some motivation...
Prabhupāda: Just like if you are hungry, if you get some real food, you'll understand. Example is these American, European boys. They are simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, and you see how they are advanced.
Guest (1): How come that in this country they...?
Prabhupāda: Immediately come. But you won't take. That is your fault. You have manufactured your own way of life. Otherwise, Hare Kṛṣṇa is India's gift.
Prabhupāda: Their one qualification is that they are not poverty stricken. And our boys, they are poverty stricken. So daridra-doṣa guṇa-rāśi-nāśī.(?) Even though are educated, on account of poverty they sacrificed everything their culture, their knowledge. Daridra-doṣa guṇa-rāśi-nāśī.
Guest (1): Yes, hunger is the cause of all. (Sanskrit)
Prabhupāda: I chastise them only because they don't care for money. (laughter)
Guest (1): They are extreme. It is contradiction...
Prabhupāda: And because they are fortunate, wherever they go, they get money.
Guest (1): That is law of nature. All the big rivers go to the sea where water is not wanted.
Prabhupāda: I have seen them. They squander so much money, and I chastise them that "You are so loose, you are so rascal and..." But still, whatever money I have got, it is due to them.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) in water. Soak it. Maybe if I feel hungry I shall take it. This is the condition of material world, simply harassing, this all these big, big government (indistinct). How to harass. The more you learn this art, how to harass, you become a big politician. Not para-upakāra. Mandāḥ sumanda matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10). Upadrutāḥ, disturbing. Adhibautika, one living entity is harassing another living entity, killing. So I have decided to construct a temple in Bhuvaneśvara. What do you think, shall I attempt?
Girirāja: Of course that is our business to construct temples.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Temple (indistinct). Temple means preaching center. This Gurukula I have made for temple (indistinct) center. Now they have made it but that (indistinct). Purpose is, that whole world in the neophyte stage, they will (indistinct), man-manā bhava mad..., think of Kṛṣṇa, offering obeisances, offer (indistinct) from the persons maintaining the temple (indistinct). Therefore they do not like that a temple should be constructed, it is waste of... (indistinct) ...must be engaged to work hard, produce money and enjoy sense gratification. Hog civilization. We are restricting that "Don't work hard like hog and dog or animals, just satisfy your minimal necessities of life, save time and (indistinct) spiritual understanding. This is our mission. Their mission is, "What is this nonsense, spiritual understanding? Simply some sentiment, waste of time. Produce, enjoy, invent so many things for sense gratification." Western civilization.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Aiye.
Guest (1) (Indian man): Humanity is hungry for love of father Śrī Kṛṣṇa, devotion, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the only...
Guest (1): That is only medicine. That is only remedy.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise I'll not give to Govinda. Income tax officer will take: "Govindāya namaḥ." If you distribute prasādam of Govinda among the poor men... We have got already in Māyāpur. Increase that. There is... They are drum-beating, that "Anyone who is hungry, please come and take prasāda."
Girirāja: That they accept as charitable. They want charitable.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Girirāja: So what could be more charitable than feeding?
Prabhupāda: No, you keep always kitchen, and by drum beating, that, "Anyone hungry within this area, or anywhere, come here. Take capatis, roti," and distribute prasādam. That is in our program.
Mr. Asnani: I shall go what Prabhupāda says, nearest to our village, within ten miles, five miles, two miles.
Prabhupāda: That I ask you. Do that. Why it is stopped, I cannot understand.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And we can increase. The same thing (indistinct) in the farm, in the village, "Come on, any number, I shall feed you. Come here, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and take prasādam." And we shall increase the quality of the prasādam. They will be very much pleased to come and chant. That I want. I am interested in these rascals (indistinct). Fighting amongst them. What can we do? You can go for some time, see what is the reason you have come. (indistinct) ...elderly person, he will come. (indistinct) younger brothers (indistinct) but that he has no power to do. Misunderstanding there will be, after all it is the material world. You go and see why (indistinct). I used to think like that. In all our temples the prasāda distribution should be so random (?), that within ten miles nobody should remain hungry. There are many persons in India, they are half time hungry. So if you distribute prasādam, "Come over here. You are hungry, take prasādam. If I cannot supply daily, I'll supply at least two days, three days weekly." And they're coming. You have seen Māyāpur (indistinct). A big prasāda distribution hall. Regular two thousands are coming (indistinct). And Hindu, Muslim, they're sitting down.
Prabhupāda: What is that challenge?
Yogeśvara: That "What is your solution to hunger? We are feeding people because we have produced ways of making crops grow faster."
Prabhupāda: What you are feeding? Then why do you complain against me? If you are feeding, that is no challenge to me. You are rascal! You cannot do it. You are challenging me. This is the answer. If you are actually feeding, then where is challenge to me? You do not know how to answer.
Yogeśvara: Well we are also feeding them meat, but you object to that.
Prabhupāda: Meat... Why there are so many hungry persons? Meat or any, stool, whatever you like, you do. But why there are so many hungry persons? You are complaining that: "We are feeding." Are you feeding all of them?
Yogeśvara: They will say in India it is because of religion.
Prabhupāda: Again India, again. Take the total.
Prabhupāda: Again India, again. Take the total. Why say India and America...?
Yogeśvara: Well, because the example is most striking there of people who allow their children to go hungry because of their religion.
Prabhupāda: So we don't say that you keep them hungry. But can you give them life?
Yogeśvara: Therefore they start these programs that "You give up your religion."
Prabhupāda: You are also captivated by their program.
Prabhupāda: If you go with sympathy that "So many hungry persons are here," then you will be beaten with shoes. That we know, That we should not disturb the arrangement of the hospital. We are saner. But you are disturbed. "Oh, so many people are starving. Let me give him some." You are rascal.
Hari-śauri: But why should we be callous to the sufferings of others?
Prabhupāda: Yes! Because the arrangement is there, hospital, he should not have food. Why shall I disturb him? I must be callous. That is intelligent. I know that when the hospital, the doctor's keeping in starvation, it is good for him. Why shall I disturb?
Hari-śauri: So then why do you go to the hospital when you're sick? When you're sick, then why do you take medicine and consult doctor? Why not be callous to that, too?
Prabhupāda: Callous means we... Callous means we can take treatment, but we cannot protest against the doctor, that "Why you are not giving me food?" We take treatment. That is saner. If the doctors ask me that "Don't eat," I take the treatment. I don't protest that "Why you are keeping me in starvation?" You are doing that, rascal, that "Why you are keeping me in starvation?" But one who knows things, he doesn't protest. That is Vaiṣṇava way. Tat te 'nukampāṁ su-samīkṣamāṇaḥ (SB 10.14.8). "Oh, my Lord, You are keeping me in this tribulation. It is Your great mercy."
Prabhupāda: This is their civilization. They have got so nice thing to eat, but they are making business by killing. How much insane. Killing is done by the uncivilized men when they are hungry. But when there are so many things to eat, why they should kill? And that is not for themselves. For others.
Hari-śauri: More ghee.
Prabhupāda: Huh? No, no, Australia can produce huge quantity of ghee. What is the price generally?
Bali-mardana: This is $3.90 for five pounds, no, two kgs.
Brahmānanda: Two pounds.
Prabhupāda: They liked?
Gargamuni: Oh, yeah. Especially there, after walking around, people get hungry, so they most enthusiastically took.
Prabhupāda: They take once or twice.
Prabhupāda: Seven thousand feet high altitude, it is good for a person to go there?
Dr. Sharma: I think it will be better if you go with an oxygen cylinder and by helicopter, not by the routine journey. Not by, you know..., gradual. Because suddenly you can get air hunger, you know, when you...
Prabhupāda: It is risky.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Risky. It is risky.
Dr. Sharma: It is risky, yes. It is risky.
Prabhupāda: Then forget this thing.
Prabhupāda: Oh, dadāti pratigṛhṇāti, to give and to accept. And (Hindi), to give him food, and when he offers, take it. You open your mind to him and let him open his mind to you. Guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati. Guhyam means confidential. Unless you love me, how can I speak to you my confidential subject? So give and take, the English word is love. This is love, beginning. In European, American countries there is free love. So they offer flower. He or she accepts. And in this way love begins. Kṛṣṇa also says, love of Kṛṣṇa begins also in that way. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam. (break) These things. Simply with love if you offer to Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa: aham aśnāmi, "I eat." Is Kṛṣṇa hungry? Tad aham aśnāmi. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). Tad aham aśnāmi. Yo me bhaktyā prayacchati. The real thing is love. Patraṁ puṣpam is no value. Or luci puri is no value. The real value is love. Yo me bhaktyā prayacchati. Therefore he does not accept anything from anyone else unless he is a devotee.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, everything. Very sumptuous, pleasing. They were hungry.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He hadn't eaten all day. That's why Girirāja was insisting he must take.
Prabhupāda: No, you must insist. Yesterday he has called me.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He said, "I am yours."
Prabhupāda: So handle with them very cautiously. He'll take certainly. Intelligent men.
Devotee: Next week we are going to Pakistan also.
Prabhupāda: Pakistan we have got a friend. You go and he will receive. So what is the conclusion of Ātreya Ṛṣi? (break) Read it. (break) ...have been introduced in the world. That's a fact. All hodge-podge nonsense, philosophy nonsense, everything, speculation. No solid instruction about the necessity or goal of life. Do you accept this or not?
Devotee: Fortunate.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You must be convinced. Otherwise you cannot convince others.
Prabhupāda: It is luxurious. (break) ...the āṭā dough. So after it is cooked... They have got ghee. That ball soaked in ghee and the ḍāl, it is so nice when taken. That is called baṭī. Very quickly made. And after eating, with that ash the two or three utensils, mean the loṭā and the plate, they'll cleanse it very nice and walk away. And that food is sufficient for twenty-four hours. Within twenty-four hours he will not be hungry and feel very strong. The two things. And you can cook anywhere without any difficulty. In India, especially in village, you can get so many dried cow dung. So fuel is ready. The āṭā is packed up. And ghee in a pot. That's all. How simple life. Simply they'll sit down where there is water, and they'll take water. Then everything is arranged. No hotel. Or even there is no āṭā, they keep their own ghee, homemade, pure. Āṭā can be purchased anywhere in the village. There is no need of carrying āṭā. So this preparation for tourists... Tourists, Indian tourists, means going to some holy place.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are hungry. (break) What to speak of saintly men. (break) ...honest, satisfied with simple living. Where do...?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: People don't even know those things at all.
Prabhupāda: Everyone was satisfied with simple living. They did not want much income.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now everyone is in anxiety.
Prabhupāda: Hm? Yes. Full of anxiety. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām. Because they were Kṛṣṇa conscious, there was no anxiety.
Prabhupāda: How people were happy in those days. A small income, they were satisfied. Nowadays they simply want money. Nobody was unhappy even if he had very small income. He would adjust, and develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. These things we have seen. I have seen that even the maidservant, what to speak of gentlemen. Where those days gone? And nobody was hungry. What is this nonsense civilization? Simply want of money and unsatisfied in every step. Especially in the Western countries they're becoming hippie. Why? The training is different.
Prabhupāda: I'm very thin and hungry.(?) I'll take a little. And now, in the evening, they'll come about ten to twelve. Arrange for that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Prabhupāda. There's about fifty people going to come for prasādam?
Jayapatākā: Fifteen.
Dr. Kapoor: They will come in afternoon.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Twelve to fifteen. Okay. We'll arrange for their taking prasādam. So you'll bathe now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Who can read Hindi?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But, Prabhupāda, one thing is that if you expect to simply naturally feel like doing this or that, how can you expect something..., to feel naturally hungry if you're ill? Unless the disease goes away... Then naturally you'll feel like drinking and eating. Just like you described to us, when a person is not Kṛṣṇa conscious he has to force himself to get up early, force himself to chant, force himself to go to ārati. Naturally he doesn't feel like these things in the conditioned stage. So similarly, when one is in a diseased condition, naturally he won't feel like taking the medicine or taking the necessary foodstuffs. But if he doesn't force himself, then he can't get out of that diseased condition.
Prabhupāda: So that condition is finished. I have no stamina to force.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You won't let us help you to have that stamina?
Prabhupāda: How you can?
| Page Title: | Hunger (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Rishab, Mayapur |
| Created: | 26 of May, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=127, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 127 |